| gastal | plenty of old BIOSes won't boot from usb | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| CosmoHill | or powerpc macs | 00:00 |
| Alison_Chaiken | http://wiki.meego.com/Installing_MeeGo_Handset_image_on_WeTab_Tablet | 00:00 |
| Alison_Chaiken | Check out plop then. | 00:00 |
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| Alison_Chaiken | WeTab's native bootloader didn't support USB, but another boot can be installed: plop. | 00:01 |
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| CosmoHill | .o/ | 00:39 |
| CosmoHill | aaahhhhh my arm is asleep | 00:39 |
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| lcuk | CosmoHill, is your x86 awake? | 00:44 |
| CosmoHill | nope | 00:44 |
| CosmoHill | I'm in my living room on my ppc | 00:45 |
| lcuk | :D | 00:45 |
| lcuk | CosmoHill, not sure if you saw but was pointed to a company earlier today | 00:45 |
| lcuk | who specialise in dualmode touchscreens | 00:46 |
| lcuk | capacitive and pen driven :D | 00:46 |
| CosmoHill | that sounds cool, I'm not used to touch screens | 00:46 |
| lcuk | need to find a manufacturer who might use them on a meego compatible device | 00:46 |
| CosmoHill | I do know that if you have a touch screen computer in a classroom it will have the cleanest monitor | 00:46 |
| lcuk | heh | 00:46 |
| flat` | :D | 00:47 |
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| lcuk | not so many apps require touchscreens | 00:47 |
| lcuk | greater majority of legacy apps at least :P | 00:47 |
| CosmoHill | I hope apps use touchscreen properly and not just for the sake of having touch screen | 00:48 |
| lcuk | CosmoHill, difference in usability | 00:49 |
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| lcuk | there are a lot of the allinone devices with windows7 and people do not use the touchscreen | 00:50 |
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| CosmoHill | http://xkcd.com/156/ | 00:50 |
| arfoll | lcuk, the quality of those touchscreens can be dreadful though | 00:50 |
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| lcuk | arfoll, lab quality vs end user | 00:51 |
| lcuk | i agree entirely | 00:51 |
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| lcuk | microsoft surface apps are designed for a pristine screen | 00:51 |
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| lcuk | arfoll, design the UX to be more accepting of such things | 00:52 |
| lcuk | and they work in homes with breafast cereal and smears etc | 00:52 |
| lcuk | the n950 network connection dialog is similar | 00:53 |
| lcuk | it used to be a list | 00:53 |
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| lcuk | on click of items the network connected | 00:53 |
| lcuk | now, onclick just selects the item | 00:53 |
| lcuk | there is a dedicated "connect" button above | 00:53 |
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| flailingmonkey | good | 00:55 |
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| arfoll | lcuk, i've found the n900 touchscreen to be fairly bad compared to the n1 for example | 00:57 |
| lcuk | arfoll, n1? | 00:57 |
| lcuk | and arfoll it is the best resistive I have used | 00:58 |
| * lcuk understands capacitive though when it works | 00:58 | |
| arfoll | nexus one | 00:58 |
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| lcuk | never tinkered with one | 00:58 |
| arfoll | i like the fact you can use it with a pen and its great when you do, but without it I found it very hard to use motions | 00:58 |
| lcuk | arfoll, sure | 01:01 |
| lcuk | the main ui was not gesture driven though which was good | 01:01 |
| lcuk | well panning desktops of course | 01:01 |
| lcuk | err swipe ;) | 01:01 |
| arfoll | *patent alert* | 01:02 |
| lcuk | is this a drinking game? | 01:02 |
| arfoll | could be | 01:03 |
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| * CosmoHill is a bit disapointed that facebook and opera don't have auto-rotation on his phon | 01:06 | |
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| lcuk | CosmoHill, do a cartwheel and reorient yourself rather than the phone | 01:07 |
| * lcuk goes to bed | 01:07 | |
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| flailingmonkey | i really like the N900 resistive screen :/ | 01:19 |
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| flailingmonkey | the glass/hard surfaces of most capacitive screens annoy me, moving a finger around on them I often encounter too much friction | 01:20 |
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| flailingmonkey | never a problem on N900. i also feel i have to be much more cautious using any capacitive screen, because it will interpret any contact as a touch event | 01:22 |
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| flailingmonkey | arfoll: it looks like the monitor program has many uses | 01:54 |
| flailingmonkey | arfoll: and it does detect the chrontel device without GPIO access | 01:54 |
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| flailingmonkey | arfoll: the GPIO part is needed for this flag only -> -g<filename>: enable and set gpio device for HDMI detect | 01:55 |
| flailingmonkey | so GPIO is used for the autodetection | 01:55 |
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| * npm watches http://events.linuxfoundation.org/events/linuxcon/live-video-streaming | 02:37 | |
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| npm | ^^ linux talking about ARM community vs linux kernel | 03:09 |
| npm | s/linux/linus :-) | 03:09 |
| ali1234 | i have to sign up? | 03:09 |
| npm | yes | 03:09 |
| ali1234 | fuuu | 03:09 |
| ali1234 | is it going to be archived? | 03:09 |
| npm | ? | 03:09 |
| ali1234 | by the time i fill in this form i will have missed it | 03:10 |
| npm | probably | 03:10 |
| npm | no it's pretty fast. then check email. then you're in | 03:10 |
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| npm | it's preferable to getting on a plane :-) | 03:10 |
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| npm | which also requires ID | 03:11 |
| berndhs | i used to like airports, you met interesting people in airport bars | 03:11 |
| ali1234 | "nice platform thing" = PC BIOS, what ARM needs | 03:12 |
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| CosmoHill | npm: linus seems argumentative if you rub him the wrong way | 03:15 |
| npm | "OpenBSD crowd is a bunch of masturbating monkeys" -- linus torvalds | 03:16 |
| ali1234 | no sign-up link: http://www.ustream.tv/channel/linux-foundation-live | 03:16 |
| npm | that's an old one. i'm hoping for a new one. | 03:16 |
| ali1234 | "i accidentally merged three drivers for the same hardware and i didn't realise" - greg kh | 03:17 |
| ali1234 | LOL app developers | 03:17 |
| ali1234 | there you go :) | 03:17 |
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| ali1234 | i remember when USB was a big problem, lol | 03:22 |
| CosmoHill | "Software is like sex; it's better when it's free. " | 03:23 |
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| CosmoHill | " * The memory management on the PowerPC can be used to frighten small children." hahahah | 03:27 |
| ali1234 | what stream are you watching? | 03:27 |
| tmzt | weggi: you have a 950? | 03:27 |
| tmzt | sorry | 03:28 |
| ali1234 | heh, i know he was gonna mention bitcoin | 03:30 |
| CosmoHill | http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Linus_Torvalds | 03:32 |
| * CosmoHill giggles | 03:34 | |
| CosmoHill | ali1234: search for "intel" on that page | 03:34 |
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| ali1234 | yeah but acpi is still better than nothing at all, which is what arm has | 03:34 |
| CosmoHill | and designed by monkeys on LSD | 03:39 |
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| flailingmonkey | what did he say about bitcoin? | 04:12 |
| flailingmonkey | and is it still going on | 04:12 |
| wmarone | yes, the arm world is a disaster | 04:16 |
| wmarone | a ton of "mach-*" directores, each loaded with board-* files for various arm platforms... not including the ones that don't go upstream | 04:18 |
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| Alison_Chaiken | Anyone know if we in US are able to pre-order the N9? I'm starting to really want one. | 06:50 |
| TSCHAKeee | not from Nokia | 06:50 |
| TSCHAKeee | and i haven't seen it on amazon | 06:50 |
| TSCHAKeee | the n9 is a fucking unicorn | 06:51 |
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| flailingmonkey | Alison_Chaiken: you're going to have to find it unlocked from a third-party retailer. No official Nokia distribution channels for the N9 in the US | 06:52 |
| flailingmonkey | Alison_Chaiken: possibly import it even :/ | 06:52 |
| wmarone | heh, the one listing got pulled | 06:53 |
| TSCHAKeee | thanks, now i'm more pissed. | 06:54 |
| wmarone | yeah, we in the US will have to bend over backwards to get it | 06:54 |
| wmarone | unless quim et. al. could provide us with a legitimate route to getting one | 06:54 |
| wmarone | other than via the loan program | 06:54 |
| TSCHAKeee | the reason I am mad, is because I've been given a handset to make apps that nobody will ever be able to use. | 06:54 |
| wmarone | which is why, IMO, targetting Harmattan is silly | 06:55 |
| TSCHAKeee | it makes me cry | 06:55 |
| wmarone | I'd rather burn off harmattan and replace it with pure MeeGo, once that project gets underway | 06:55 |
| TSCHAKeee | because the phone is so fucking good | 06:55 |
| TSCHAKeee | well, the APIs are the same | 06:56 |
| wmarone | not totally | 06:56 |
| TSCHAKeee | IT IS ENOUGH FOR ME. | 06:56 |
| TSCHAKeee | but whatever | 06:56 |
| wmarone | heh | 06:56 |
| TSCHAKeee | i haven't seen another MeeGo phone | 06:56 |
| TSCHAKeee | nor any indication there will be others | 06:56 |
| TSCHAKeee | and no | 06:56 |
| TSCHAKeee | trade show appearances at Comptex or other shows do not count | 06:56 |
| TSCHAKeee | as we all well know | 06:56 |
| wmarone | of course not | 06:56 |
| wmarone | they vanish into the ether | 06:57 |
| TSCHAKeee | i will feel better if i see even one more phone | 06:57 |
| TSCHAKeee | with a somewhat proactive push in marketing | 06:57 |
| TSCHAKeee | because I don't mind #ifdeffing my code | 06:58 |
| TSCHAKeee | and qml is dead easy to put together | 06:58 |
| TSCHAKeee | or hey | 06:59 |
| TSCHAKeee | an actual tablet | 06:59 |
| TSCHAKeee | an in-car unit running IVI maybe??? | 07:00 |
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| TSCHAKeee | a toaster? a furby? | 07:01 |
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| TSCHAKeee | :P | 07:01 |
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| TSCHAKeee | i mean it, i feel like an Amiga user... | 07:03 |
| TSCHAKeee | or a Mac user, circa 1989. | 07:03 |
| TSCHAKeee | :P | 07:03 |
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| flailingmonkey | IVI i think is actually likely | 07:03 |
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| flailingmonkey | tablet's are already out | 07:04 |
| TSCHAKeee | meehhhh | 07:04 |
| TSCHAKeee | basically, it's WeTab | 07:04 |
| TSCHAKeee | and.. | 07:04 |
| TSCHAKeee | ... | 07:04 |
| TSCHAKeee | WeTab | 07:04 |
| flailingmonkey | unfortunately early MeeGo.com UX is not wowing most people | 07:05 |
| flailingmonkey | TabCo was underwhelming :p | 07:05 |
| TSCHAKeee | Nokia's Swipe UI is quite fantastic | 07:06 |
| TSCHAKeee | it's really sad. | 07:06 |
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| Alison_Chaiken | My plan is to pay to import an N9 and then hopefully put Handset DE on it. The question is *how* to import it. I've already asked the wise qgil for advice. | 07:08 |
| Alison_Chaiken | TSCHAKeee, I've been concentrating my own efforts on MeeGo-IVI, because that's where MeeGo has a chance. | 07:09 |
| TSCHAKeee | well, since I am already doing our LinuxMCE R&D, and the N950 was given to me based on that... | 07:10 |
| TSCHAKeee | I will do that work...too bad nobody will ever see it. | 07:10 |
| Alison_Chaiken | I went to a talk last week about Smart Grid. Smart Meters, medical devices, fitness equipment, toys . . . anywhere Qt is appropriate and Android has no inherent advantage. | 07:10 |
| TSCHAKeee | *nod* | 07:10 |
| TSCHAKeee | I want to do IVI work too, LinuxMCE would be great in the car. | 07:11 |
| TSCHAKeee | but it's difficult getting IVI reference hardware. | 07:11 |
| TSCHAKeee | and due to the nature of my work, I can't do it all on simulators. | 07:11 |
| Alison_Chaiken | I concur: for backseat LinuxMCE is great. That's why I worked with Panda with multiple display outputs. | 07:11 |
| TSCHAKeee | indeed, but not just for backseat | 07:11 |
| TSCHAKeee | there are wonderful integration possibilities | 07:12 |
| TSCHAKeee | but yeah :) | 07:12 |
| Alison_Chaiken | TSCHAKeee, are you on meego-ivi mailing list to read frequent, interminable reference hardware discussions, often started by me? Including today? | 07:12 |
| TSCHAKeee | no, that's ONE list i am not on... | 07:12 |
| TSCHAKeee | i will join. | 07:12 |
| flailingmonkey | MCE = Media Center? | 07:12 |
| TSCHAKeee | flailingmonkey: yes, we changed the name from Pluto HOme | 07:13 |
| TSCHAKeee | flailingmonkey: but it is much more than that | 07:13 |
| flailingmonkey | nifty' | 07:13 |
| TSCHAKeee | it is, to my knowledge, the most advanced smart home platform available. | 07:13 |
| Alison_Chaiken | Have a look at the archives and see if recent topics interest you. meego-ivi is a useful mailing list: reason volume, high technical level, few flames, on-topic. | 07:13 |
| flailingmonkey | what is your approach for codecs, and do you use any of those hardware video decoder chips | 07:13 |
| TSCHAKeee | (it's not new... we've been working on it for almost a decade) | 07:13 |
| flailingmonkey | aha, smart home! | 07:13 |
| Alison_Chaiken | TSCHAKeee, smart meter with MCE would be ultracool too. Do you know about Pachube? | 07:14 |
| TSCHAKeee | flailingmonkey: abstracted to message bus end points, basically... | 07:14 |
| flailingmonkey | ahh | 07:14 |
| TSCHAKeee | Alison_Chaiken: no, I haven't seen it. | 07:14 |
| Alison_Chaiken | http://itc.conversationsnetwork.org/shows/detail4936.html Completely awesome distributed sensor platform. | 07:14 |
| Alison_Chaiken | Also check out mp3car.com, home of meego-ivi thought-leader Nasa. Nasa is kind of the Stskeeps of IVI ;-). | 07:15 |
| TSCHAKeee | flailingmonkey: we have a device tree, with end points of programs, that talk on our message bus that we call DCE... and in a given entertainment area, the media player is just another device we send commands to... our Orbiter software, in addition to running on touch screens, tablets, phones, PDAs, etc... also runs as an on-TV display with window management built in... | 07:16 |
| TSCHAKeee | so in the end we don't care.. we have DCE players for Xine, (which is installed by default), but also for mplayer, and Videolan... | 07:16 |
| Alison_Chaiken | Time for dinner, then more struggle with EMGD and libGLES. | 07:16 |
| TSCHAKeee | one for gstreamer could be made as well | 07:16 |
| flailingmonkey | i've mostly been trying to make the most out of the EXOPC tablet Intel loaned me as a software development platform | 07:17 |
| TSCHAKeee | EMGD makes me want to mainline heroin. | 07:17 |
| TSCHAKeee | just to numb the pain | 07:17 |
| flailingmonkey | since it has a broadcom hardware video decoder, that's one piece i'm trying to get working and integrated in video playing apps | 07:17 |
| TSCHAKeee | even after two years of dealing with it.. Intel EMGD STILL Does not have working VA-API | 07:17 |
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| Stskeeps | morn | 07:33 |
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| Stskeeps | Alison_Chaiken: at least meego-ivi@ seems to be getting the passionate posting the rest of project is missing atm :P | 07:40 |
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| flailingmonkey | i don't know what the other offerings for IVI look like | 07:48 |
| flailingmonkey | i don't see android being their cup of tea | 07:48 |
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| Stskeeps | i'm not convinced meego's that either, it needs more slimming down and more importantly, active and open process | 07:51 |
| flailingmonkey | Stskeeps: indeed | 07:52 |
| Stskeeps | and ubuntu isn't it either, too stuck in the desktop-server world | 07:53 |
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| Stskeeps | morn smoku | 08:05 |
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| smoku | hi Stskeeps | 08:07 |
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| Alison_Chaiken | IVI needs a strong security model. I am eager to hear what Ryan Ware says at LinuxCon on Friday! Bummer that session won't be livestreamed: https://events.linuxfoundation.org/events/linuxcon/schedule | 08:14 |
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| Stskeeps | i'm starting to think that ryan might be on to something with his approach actually, in the brave new world of qml and html5 apps | 08:14 |
| Alison_Chaiken | Notice also that BMW is presenting about ConnMan! And Rudi Streif will discuss IVI. | 08:14 |
| Stskeeps | Alison_Chaiken: BTW, i have a OBS that's slowly but firmly generating softfp meego builds (non-compliant, marked as EXPERIMENTALBUILDS), but useful for R&D | 08:15 |
| Alison_Chaiken | Thanks for the update, Stskeeps. While I continue to mess with Panda, my new paying (we hope) gig is on Atom. | 08:18 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 08:18 |
| Stskeeps | good thing about meego is that for most stuff, the underlying architecture doesn't really matter :) | 08:19 |
| Alison_Chaiken | As long as I can continue with MeeGo, it's good! | 08:19 |
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| * Stskeeps has a couple of atom devices too | 08:19 | |
| Alison_Chaiken | Concur, although those details sure can occupy a lot of time! | 08:19 |
| Stskeeps | indeed | 08:20 |
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| dm8tbr | Stskeeps: if you need help with that, we'll be discussing with TUT if they can donate some idle power AND if you want to host OBS output I'm sure space on either forMeeGo host can be arranged | 08:21 |
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| dm8tbr | as currently there is my original forMeeGo machine and I guess the new hardware in the helsinki colo should be arriving/arrived | 08:22 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 08:23 |
| Stskeeps | dm8tbr: i could definately be interested in additional workers, but let's see how well my setup scales | 08:23 |
| Stskeeps | doing 6 workers on ramdisk atm | 08:23 |
| dm8tbr | *nod* | 08:24 |
| Stskeeps | it's actually a little more difficult to do an accurate build than i anticipated, there's packages in MeeGo:1.2.0:oss that contains links to Trunk/MeeGo:1.2:oss and some that's unable to be checked out | 08:25 |
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| Stskeeps | (due to a OBS bug) | 08:25 |
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| Stskeeps | interesting | 08:30 |
| Stskeeps | you can actually extract OBS history over wire | 08:30 |
| flailingmonkey | arfoll: i have good news and not-so-bad news | 08:31 |
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| arfoll | flailingmonkey, lets hear it ;-) | 08:43 |
| flailingmonkey | i now know what the whole GPIO mess is about | 08:44 |
| Stskeeps | you can actually extract OBS history over wire -> curl http://api.meego.com/public/source/Trunk/acl/_history | 08:44 |
| flailingmonkey | and after lots of attempts, still can't get access to the pin they want through GPIO SYSFS | 08:44 |
| flailingmonkey | that's the not-so-bad news | 08:44 |
| flailingmonkey | the good news is that | 08:44 |
| flailingmonkey | the ch7306_monitor also has the alternative code path for HDMI detection without GPIO pin | 08:45 |
| flailingmonkey | so it runs without the pin. | 08:45 |
| arfoll | oh that is cool | 08:45 |
| flailingmonkey | but i still do not have a mini-HDMI cable... should arrive saturday | 08:45 |
| arfoll | you have the code in OBS allready? | 08:45 |
| flailingmonkey | nooope | 08:46 |
| flailingmonkey | it was only after banging my head against the GPIO stuff that I went through whole git history for the chrontel code | 08:46 |
| flailingmonkey | so I have the commands working, but I need to write some sort of scripts for meego use | 08:47 |
| arfoll | so why do they bother with the detection with GPIO pin? You think it's just more reliable? | 08:47 |
| flailingmonkey | http://git.chromium.org/gitweb/?p=chromiumos/third_party/chrontel.git;a=commit;h=3094a1120eed5a51d684525b15af7f7ac7525d1c | 08:48 |
| flailingmonkey | they are using the GPIO pin of the NM10 Tiger Point chipset, instead of the Chrontel chip | 08:48 |
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| arfoll | cool, well nice find ;-) | 08:49 |
| flailingmonkey | the major problem is that there is no upstream driver that provides access to those GPIO pins. but just using the Chrontel chip for detection will work, meaning no need to package a kernel driver :) | 08:50 |
| flailingmonkey | yeah, and this is detecting HDMI the same way that WeTab code does, and since WeTab stuff works, this will work too | 08:50 |
| flailingmonkey | I will try to get this into a shape you can test now | 08:50 |
| arfoll | k cool, I can try out this afternoon/evening | 08:51 |
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| flailingmonkey | arfoll: i'm looking over your chrontel packaging for hints on how to make my own. I can already tell that WeTab approach was very crude. for chromiumos approach, i2c device is just a command argument, no need to patch source :) | 09:56 |
| arfoll | flailingmonkey, wetab where a little dirty they removed basically all cli args | 09:59 |
| flailingmonkey | arfoll: ouch | 09:59 |
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| flailingmonkey | arfoll: i think your udev rule will work for me too | 10:07 |
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| arfoll | flailingmonkey, maybe renaming it to /dev/i2c-chrontel may not be so bad /dev/hdmi might cause trouble | 10:14 |
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| flailingmonkey | arfoll: could be, i'm still scratching my head at packaging lol | 10:15 |
| * flailingmonkey opens http://wiki.meego.com/Packaging first thing it says is "This page needs re-writing" | 10:16 | |
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| Stskeeps | learn spectacle and you're hapy | 10:17 |
| Stskeeps | happy | 10:17 |
| arfoll | flailingmonkey, how do you build? make then make install? | 10:18 |
| flailingmonkey | arfoll: just make right now, the chromiumos people didn't have an install make target. apparently they use ebuild or something | 10:18 |
| flailingmonkey | arfoll: but all it needs to do it cp firmware file, ch7036_monitor and any scripts for running the daemon | 10:19 |
| arfoll | flailingmonkey, then take my yaml file, and just change qmake in the spec file to make, and then adapt the install lines and the file list | 10:19 |
| flailingmonkey | quick and dirty, good times ;) | 10:19 |
| arfoll | well it's the only way to do it if you don't have make isntall, spectacle expects make install if you use builder make | 10:20 |
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| flailingmonkey | i could write a make install target | 10:23 |
| flailingmonkey | also this code comes from a git repo, there isn't technically a source tarball | 10:23 |
| flailingmonkey | should I make a tarball of the source anyway i wonder | 10:23 |
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| flailingmonkey | when a package uses library headers from -devel packages to build, does it require those packages non -devel versions to be installed to run? | 10:34 |
| Stskeeps | it depends on if it takes symbols too | 10:35 |
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| flailingmonkey | looking at the spec file here it doesn't seem to | 10:35 |
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| Stskeeps | well, the log is what matters | 10:36 |
| Stskeeps | the resulting Requires: | 10:36 |
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| flailingmonkey | the binary needs libXrandr, libX11 libXext and alsa-lib headers to build | 10:36 |
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| flailingmonkey | but only Requires alsa-utils | 10:36 |
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| radiofree | flailingmonkey: It needs the non-devel packages because they will provide the shared objects/libraries needed at run time | 10:37 |
| arfoll | flailingmonkey, you should make a tarball from git, its easy with git archive | 10:37 |
| radiofree | the -devel packages contain the headers you need to develop with those libraries | 10:37 |
| radiofree | so you still need the non -devel packages to run them | 10:38 |
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| Bostik | flailingmonkey: rpmbuild *should* figure out the binary dependencies by itself, and add the required packages/features to the generated package automatically - only if you require something that doesn't have symbols in the created binaries (such as loadable plugins) should you need to manually add Requires: foo lines | 10:38 |
| flailingmonkey | yeah, which is why i was confused that they weren't listed under Required. probably works just because they are already installed on MeeGo tablet | 10:38 |
| radiofree | well check what asla-utils requires | 10:39 |
| radiofree | somewhere in the chain they'll be something that requires libX11.. | 10:39 |
| flailingmonkey | Bostik: this would be assuming I was using rpmbuild, instead of hackishly tweaking someone elses .spec and .yaml files :p | 10:39 |
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| arfoll | flailingmonkey, the yaml file should have everything you need, just remove the qt dep | 10:40 |
| arfoll | and you can use rpmbuild with the generated spec file, that should work fine | 10:40 |
| arfoll | although osc build is probably better | 10:40 |
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| flailingmonkey | well that's my real target | 10:42 |
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| flailingmonkey | btw, fluendo proprietary codecs compiled for lpia processor features uses very little CPU for video decoding | 10:48 |
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| * flailingmonkey felt a little dirty paying for codecs, but they will make a good data point for testing against open source options | 10:49 | |
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| arfoll | flailingmonkey, yes most of them use intel's IPP library, they're actually quite good | 10:58 |
| arfoll | although ffmpeg's implementations can sometimes be faster simply because they aren't compliant ;-) | 10:59 |
| flailingmonkey | even without the crystalhd, cpu use was pretty much always below 30% | 10:59 |
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| flailingmonkey | still, HD will benefit from hardware | 11:00 |
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| flailingmonkey | and i don't think flash uses gstreamer at all, so only way to accelerate streaming flash video is getting good crystalhd support | 11:00 |
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| arfoll | flailingmonkey, crystalhd should enable 720p, with fluendo codecs I couldn't get 720p to run | 11:01 |
| arfoll | not in h264 anyways | 11:01 |
| flailingmonkey | yea | 11:02 |
| lcuk | morning \o | 11:02 |
| flailingmonkey | i managed to mess up the meego-apps-video somehow, it would segfault on playing even the included .ogv file | 11:02 |
| flailingmonkey | even after I removed and uninstalled all the codecs i had put in... i ended up reinstalling | 11:02 |
| arfoll | fluendo codecs shouldn't affect ogv decoding. You have the codec bundle no? | 11:03 |
| arfoll | mind you i'm not too sure what ships in the codec bundle... | 11:03 |
| flailingmonkey | yeah, it wasn't from them, but I have no idea what happened | 11:03 |
| flailingmonkey | the codec bundle is just a zip of gstreamer plugin files | 11:03 |
| flailingmonkey | you copy them into your /usr/lib/gstreamer/ | 11:04 |
| flailingmonkey | very simple | 11:04 |
| arfoll | ja, i know (i was working for fluendo until may), i'm just not sure which codecs are included | 11:04 |
| flailingmonkey | ohh | 11:04 |
| flailingmonkey | it seemed like most | 11:04 |
| arfoll | i think you don't get an unblocked AC3 codec, so it only works with totem | 11:05 |
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| flailingmonkey | unblocked AC3 would do what? | 11:06 |
| arfoll | let you play ac3 everywhere. unfortunatly dolby license forbids it | 11:06 |
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| flailingmonkey | would that have been signified by "Dobly Digital"? | 11:07 |
| flailingmonkey | because that is in there | 11:07 |
| arfoll | try use it in a gstreamer pipeline | 11:08 |
| flailingmonkey | /usr/lib/gstreamer-0.10/libgstflueac3dec.so | 11:08 |
| flailingmonkey | looks like it | 11:08 |
| arfoll | yeah thats the one, if you do gst-inspect on it it'll say IPP build protected or something | 11:09 |
| flailingmonkey | yup "IPP build with Player protection) | 11:10 |
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| arfoll | but thats the only one, it only works in totem. also they don't have a DTS decoder so i build the one with libdca on pub obs :-)\ | 11:11 |
| flailingmonkey | nice move :) | 11:12 |
| flailingmonkey | i don't really know how meego-apps-videos does its video decoding | 11:12 |
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| arfoll | flailingmonkey, they use qtmultimedia, so i guess thats just a playbin2 abstraction on meego/linux | 11:15 |
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| flailingmonkey | arfoll: it didn't seem to use any of the fluendo codecs, which worked fine when using gst-launch playbin2 | 11:16 |
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| arfoll | weird, maybe qtmultimedia does something else then. have you tried the latest meego-app-video from trunk? | 11:21 |
| Stskeeps | i think it can also use libva | 11:21 |
| arfoll | Stskeeps, well no libva on pinetrail, but qtmultimedia would be able to use libva without a gstreamer codec? | 11:22 |
| Stskeeps | i think there's a patch in qt mobility or something at least | 11:22 |
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| arfoll | cool, although having a FOSS gst plugin would be nicer... | 11:23 |
| flailingmonkey | i was using latest from MeeGo 1.2, but not 1.2 testing | 11:30 |
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| lcuk | Stskeeps, based on the meeting this morning I gather 1.3 focus is getting together | 12:38 |
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| x29a_ | good morning, im trying to pack a .deb for an arm architecture, but i get the error: dpkg-shlibdeps: failure: no dependency information found for mylib.so - how would i generate that information? i have the .so in place but that doesnt seem to be enough. the target is an n900 smartphone, so the package is crosscompiled using the qtsdk | 12:44 |
| Stskeeps | x29a_: that's a question for #maemo | 12:45 |
| Stskeeps | n900 and maemo uses .deb, not meego :) | 12:46 |
| x29a_ | Stskeeps: done that, sorry for the nosie | 12:46 |
| x29a_ | noise even | 12:46 |
| smokex | maybe #harmattan? | 12:47 |
| alterego | No, #maemo .. | 12:48 |
| smokex | kk | 12:48 |
| vpodzime | Stskeeps: what package system meego uses? | 12:49 |
| Stskeeps | rpm | 12:49 |
| vpodzime | I though it uses deb. Now many things are clear, thanks... :) | 12:50 |
| vpodzime | s/though/thought | 12:50 |
| smokex | meego harmattan uses deb but thats just a nokia branch. main line meego still uses rpm | 12:51 |
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| pebcak | which is rather sad :P | 13:15 |
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| vpodzime | pebcak: why? | 14:07 |
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| TimmyT | what the difference is between meego handset and meego tablet for n900? im going to download an image to install on my device, but i don't know the differences between them | 14:10 |
| Stskeeps | handset works | 14:10 |
| TimmyT | good, but the difference is between them? both of them are designed for n900 | 14:10 |
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| x29a | TimmyT: nobody is asleep | 14:14 |
| TimmyT | :-p | 14:14 |
| lcuk | TimmyT, different window manager and paradigm | 14:14 |
| x29a | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MeeGo#User_interfaces | 14:15 |
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| TimmyT | ok, im going to install it on eMMC. here: http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Install/EMMC i see it says place the kernel i want to use into the de-installer directory, i've downloaded a kernel from that repository i've download the image, but i see there is a vmlinuz already in de-installer directory | 14:18 |
| TimmyT | which of these kernels i have to use? | 14:18 |
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| x29a | the one you want to use | 14:21 |
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| TimmyT | flashing failed, it says: flashing initramfs image | 14:26 |
| TimmyT | flasher v2.5.2 (Oct 21 2009) | 14:26 |
| TimmyT | vmlinuz-n900: No such file or directory | 14:26 |
| TimmyT | flashing done | 14:26 |
| TimmyT | it was the command i used: ./de-installer/n900-de-emmc-installer.sh -i ./de-installer/mg-handset-armv7nhl-n900-ce-stable-1.2.0.90.6.20110630.4.DE.2011-07-01.1-mmcblk0p.raw.bz2 -f -k ./de-installer/mg-handset-armv7nhl-n900-ce-stable-1.2.0.90.6.20110630.4.DE.2011-07-01.1-vmlinuz-2.6.37-24.2.de-adaptation-n900 | 14:26 |
| * DocScrutinizer slaps x29a with http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#id479916 | 14:27 | |
| x29a | im sorry, i didnt intend to offend anybody | 14:28 |
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| TimmyT | DocScrutinizer: doesn't matter, it's ok with me | 14:29 |
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| Beineri | lbt / X-Fade: build.pub: "Server returned an error: HTTP Error 400: Bad Request remote error: syswrite No space left on device" :-| | 14:51 |
| lbt | eek | 14:51 |
| lbt | link ? | 14:51 |
| Beineri | when trying to do a local osc build... | 14:51 |
| lbt | X-Fade: ping | 14:51 |
| Beineri | but I think also build jobs are stuck / hanging | 14:51 |
| lbt | shit ... that was using like 60% yesterday ... | 14:52 |
| Stskeeps | wasn't me, my 4.7 gb worth of meego sources are on my own machine | 14:53 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 14:53 |
| * Beineri feels innocent too *whistle* | 14:53 | |
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| * Sage wonders what the prjlink did actually :) | 14:56 | |
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| Stskeeps | opened up a vortex in time and space | 14:57 |
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| Stskeeps | we're transferring meego sources back to 1997 in order to restore history to how it should look like. | 14:58 |
| TimmyT | this is the output of my terminal here http://pastebin.com/ndphvVVX, after pressing the enter key on the keyboard, i can't turn the phone on. also it does nothin anymore and a something is on the display of the phone that says: starting netcat for initial connection chech, but does nothin | 14:58 |
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| TimmyT | if i write something on my phone and press enter it will be shown on the terminal windows in my pc | 15:00 |
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| bored_flasher | hmmmm, nobody here who knows the answer of my problem? | 15:15 |
| berndhs | morning | 15:16 |
| dm8tbr | bored_flasher: if you'd stop changing your nicknames every 5s that would certainly help *sheesh* | 15:16 |
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| dm8tbr | TimmyT: why are you trying to install to emmc anyway? | 15:17 |
| dm8tbr | the preferred way is to install to micro-sd | 15:17 |
| TimmyT | there is rumor that it works faster | 15:18 |
| Stskeeps | not really | 15:18 |
| Stskeeps | get a microsd card, class 6 or 1 | 15:18 |
| Stskeeps | 0 | 15:18 |
| Stskeeps | 10 | 15:18 |
| dm8tbr | a class6 or class10 should be faster than emmc | 15:18 |
| Venemo_N950 | but why the need for microsd still? | 15:18 |
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| Stskeeps | Venemo_N950: it's simply what we test with so | 15:19 |
| dm8tbr | and with constant flashing people actually do kill their micro-sd cards | 15:19 |
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| dm8tbr | you don't want that to happen to your emmc | 15:19 |
| Venemo_N950 | I was hoping that by this time, a one-click installer would be developed that could demolish Maemo and install MeeGo onto the N900 | 15:20 |
| dm8tbr | the installer script seems to be that sort of thing | 15:20 |
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| TimmyT | ok, im going to buy one, right now i've a class 4 | 15:22 |
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| Venemo | very nice & funny: http://twitpic.com/5siddh/full | 15:25 |
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| TimmyT | does nokia have plan for selling N9 with Windows phone? | 15:28 |
| Stskeeps | ask nokia | 15:28 |
| TimmyT | Stskeeps: dunnu, Venemo sent somethin which shows n9 with WP | 15:29 |
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| smoku | X-Fade, is the repository publishing process on cobs fine? | 15:39 |
| X-Fade | smoku: not atm, we just had to restart the backend because it ran out of space. | 15:40 |
| * Beineri thinks builds/workers are also not working correctly... builds not ending (or restarting?) | 15:40 | |
| Venemo | I will never understand why you chose OBS against Koji | 15:41 |
| Venemo | apparently OBS isn't up to the task at all. | 15:41 |
| X-Fade | It filled up the archive space. Just too many people submitting packages. | 15:41 |
| X-Fade | Added another 500G | 15:41 |
| Venemo | heh | 15:41 |
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| berndhs | pick an alternative system that's really inconvenient, people won't submit soo many packages :) | 15:43 |
| smoku | X-Fade, i will wait then. | 15:45 |
| X-Fade | smoku: Yeah, should be fixed soonish. | 15:45 |
| smoku | X-Fade, is the 'fremantle' repository working? I cannot configure my project to build against it | 15:46 |
| X-Fade | smoku: No, that is an old test I did a year ago or so. | 15:46 |
| X-Fade | smoku: Needs some love. | 15:46 |
| smoku | X-Fade, it would be nice if I could build my packages both for harmattan and fremantle | 15:47 |
| smoku | and meego | 15:47 |
| X-Fade | smoku: I agree, but there are only so many hours in a day :) | 15:47 |
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| smoku | X-Fade, right. same here :) | 15:49 |
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| lupine_85 | hmm, reading the N900CE "key features", internet over 3G / cellular seems to be lacking? | 16:41 |
| chouchoune | lupine_85: but, do you know any 3G carrier providing real internet ? ;) | 16:45 |
| Stskeeps | lupine_85: works fine | 16:45 |
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| lupine_85 | awesome :) | 16:45 |
| lupine_85 | and yes, AAISP | 16:45 |
| chouchoune | lupine_85: no proxy, no services restrictions, no service downgrade after some Mb used ? | 16:47 |
| chouchoune | nice, I want that in france ;) | 16:48 |
| lupine_85 | correct, correct and correct | 16:48 |
| lupine_85 | I don't think they have native IPv6 *quite* yet, but they're working on it, and they'll give you an L2TP tunnel if you need it in the meantime | 16:48 |
| chouchoune | woaw | 16:49 |
| lupine_85 | (say, if you're using a 3G sim as backup internet connectivity for a whole site and you want the IP routes to flip over when the ADSL goes down) | 16:49 |
| chouchoune | every terminal has it's own IP(v4) ? | 16:49 |
| chouchoune | No NAT ? | 16:49 |
| lupine_85 | well, yes | 16:50 |
| chouchoune | that's great | 16:50 |
| lupine_85 | how else would you do internet? | 16:50 |
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| chouchoune | tell them to come and operate in france ;) | 16:50 |
| arfoll | chouchoune, french telcos are a rip off | 16:50 |
| chouchoune | arfoll: yes, I know | 16:51 |
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| lupine_85 | it's depressing that basic standards of connectivity are now considered to be a holy grail, rather than a minimum requirement for purchasing | 16:52 |
| arfoll | even prepaid/pay as you go is real expensive in france | 16:52 |
| lupine_85 | why give them money if their service isn't up to par ? | 16:52 |
| lupine_85 | *Shrug* | 16:52 |
| chouchoune | yep | 16:53 |
| arfoll | well they're still cheaper than roaming | 16:53 |
| chouchoune | but there are some associative providers setting great things up | 16:53 |
| lupine_85 | (the answer, of course, is because people are cheapskates. I give - or rather, work gives - A&A £35/month for the ADSL I get from A&A. When I told the talktalk salesman, his pretty head almost exploded) | 16:53 |
| arfoll | mind you premium adsl isn't always better, i had demon bussiness, and they failed to send me a bill (so obv. i never paid) then sent me debt collectors for 70 quid | 16:54 |
| arfoll | instead of calling me up | 16:55 |
| lupine_85 | there is indeed a difference between premium and competent | 16:55 |
| lupine_85 | demon used to be really good :/ | 16:55 |
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| arfoll | yeah, since they got bought by thus, they are crap | 16:55 |
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| arfoll | they had real good offers though on 1:20 contention ratios | 16:56 |
| lupine_85 | BTw have stopped guaranteeing those contention ratios now | 16:56 |
| lupine_85 | the only thing you really get out of their 'business' grade ADSL circuits nowadays is the improved upstream | 16:57 |
| arfoll | BTw stuff always seemed way to expensive for what it was | 16:57 |
| lupine_85 | aye. A&A backhaul through Be wherever they can | 16:57 |
| arfoll | my plan is to go BE on their 3 month contrats next month | 16:58 |
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| lcuk | lbt, I have made the prototype connection between my wall unit and device | 17:09 |
| lcuk | tracy can now update me with things whilst out and about shopping and stuff | 17:10 |
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| cityLights | @seen quim | 17:18 |
| cityLights | ~seen quim | 17:18 |
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| infobot | i haven't seen 'quim', cityLights | 17:18 |
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| cityLights | where is qgil.... | 17:21 |
| qgil | here | 17:21 |
| cityLights | oh , hellow mate | 17:21 |
| cityLights | I pm you in the meego,did you get it? | 17:21 |
| qgil | er... | 17:22 |
| cityLights | I am using the N900 for a long time and published a small program | 17:22 |
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| cityLights | also wrote some toturials | 17:22 |
| cityLights | I was late by a few hours in apllying for the n9 dev kit | 17:22 |
| cityLights | , got no answer to my email | 17:22 |
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| qgil | cityLights: sorry, with so many channels open it is easy to miss something | 17:23 |
| cityLights | this is why I was waiting then decided to try here | 17:23 |
| cityLights | I knew you had a lot on your hands | 17:23 |
| qgil | cityLights: there was a deadline in June and an extended deadline in August, the meego.com had 300 devices to assign to open source developers and all of them have been assigned | 17:23 |
| cityLights | but I do love the device and enjoy writing small usable things | 17:24 |
| cityLights | I se | 17:24 |
| cityLights | well, at least I tried | 17:24 |
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| cityLights | and I didnt want to use this public channel | 17:25 |
| qgil | well, there are many developers in your situation and I can't sadly satisfy everybody - not even those that applied on time but didn't get accepted because there were not more than 300 devices | 17:25 |
| cityLights | I see | 17:25 |
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| qgil | watch Nokia Developer and your local Nokia developer channels, and pay attention to news related with the N9 | 17:25 |
| cityLights | I think that my n900 delivers the programs I actually need | 17:25 |
| qgil | that's the best advice I can give you | 17:25 |
| cityLights | not 50k apps - no one uses | 17:26 |
| qgil | cityLights: I'm not questios your software or skills - I simply don't have more N950 | 17:26 |
| cityLights | also , I like lardman - he is nice | 17:26 |
| qgil | there was a limited edition meant to go out asap in order to let developers have apps ready before sales start | 17:26 |
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| cityLights | no problems, stay safe | 17:26 |
| qgil | cityLights: in the meantime there is a Qt SDK and a Harmattan platform SDK with emulators | 17:27 |
| cityLights | any idea if i may get a N9 next month, while in rome? | 17:27 |
| qgil | also MeeGo upstream, of course | 17:27 |
| qgil | cityLights: no idea | 17:27 |
| cityLights | ok, thanks for all your help | 17:28 |
| cityLights | btw, I was in touch with you regarding the n900 gps bug | 17:28 |
| cityLights | and sent you all kind of info | 17:28 |
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| cityLights | remember that "getting a faster gps lock while on a bus doing 120 km/hr"? | 17:28 |
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| janco | have any changes are made to linux kernel in meego from the standard linux kernel? | 17:29 |
| cityLights | nm, back to work | 17:29 |
| wmarone | janco: MeeGo uses an upstream kernel | 17:29 |
| Stskeeps | http://wiki.meego.com/Core_OS_Program/Kernel_policy | 17:29 |
| cityLights | did anyone here try to use ec2 from the device? | 17:29 |
| cityLights | like, start an ec2 instance, then send it a file and get back a response? | 17:30 |
| cityLights | seems usefull | 17:30 |
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| Stskeeps | should be trivial if you can access it over the web | 17:30 |
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| cityLights | I think the api needs java | 17:30 |
| cityLights | and I think meego doesnt come with java | 17:31 |
| Stskeeps | there's ec2-api-tools or something | 17:31 |
| cityLights | one may get a free instance on amazon today | 17:31 |
| cityLights | ec2-api-tools needs a working java env on the device | 17:31 |
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| cityLights | this allows to run intence stuff of the device | 17:32 |
| cityLights | like agumented reality | 17:32 |
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| Stskeeps | sounds interesting | 17:32 |
| cityLights | then the ec2 instance can stop after not being accesed for a while | 17:34 |
| cityLights | say 15 min | 17:35 |
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| * CosmoHill put the XKCD password comic on the uni wall today | 18:11 | |
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| CosmoHill | http://download.oracle.com/javase/tutorial/uiswing/components/list.html#init :) | 18:19 |
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| TimmyT | how much it takes to copy that raw image of n900 into the SD card ? | 18:25 |
| lcuk | TimmyT, 3.8gbish | 18:26 |
| lcuk | fits onto a 4gb card | 18:26 |
| TimmyT | i run dd to write that on my class 4 SD card, but it was running for 1 hour and it was not done | 18:26 |
| lcuk | TimmyT, that sounds reasonable | 18:27 |
| CosmoHill | TimmyT: what bytesize did you use? | 18:27 |
| lcuk | i have a few cards here | 18:27 |
| TimmyT | 4096 | 18:27 |
| lcuk | and different ones take longer than an hour | 18:27 |
| lcuk | TimmyT, there are ways to check the dd progress | 18:27 |
| lcuk | use internet search to find out | 18:27 |
| lcuk | "dd progress" | 18:27 |
| TimmyT | CosmoHill: 4096 as it was written in the wiki | 18:27 |
| CosmoHill | cool | 18:28 |
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| CosmoHill | what class of memory card? | 18:28 |
| lcuk | http://linuxcommando.blogspot.com/2008/06/show-progress-during-dd-copy.html | 18:28 |
| TimmyT | CosmoHill: 4 | 18:28 |
| lcuk | TimmyT, that works | 18:28 |
| lcuk | and will let you know where it is upto | 18:28 |
| CosmoHill | lcuk: hi btw, also: http://cross-lfs.org/~cosmo/xkcd-2.JPG | 18:28 |
| lupine_85 | just make sure you get the right signal ;) | 18:28 |
| TimmyT | luck: there's a problem, when dd is working, it freezes my laptop and i can't even move the mouse | 18:29 |
| lcuk | so just let it do | 18:29 |
| lcuk | an hour isn't so long for certain devices | 18:30 |
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| TimmyT | lcuk: are u saying it may take more than one hour? | 18:30 |
| lcuk | yes | 18:31 |
| lcuk | i doubled the speed of dd on my computer | 18:31 |
| TimmyT | how? | 18:31 |
| lcuk | it now completes in about 40 minutes.. | 18:31 |
| lcuk | TimmyT, different card | 18:31 |
| CosmoHill | a decent card reader and a higher class memory card would help | 18:31 |
| lcuk | just let it do | 18:31 |
| TimmyT | ok | 18:32 |
| CosmoHill | I think play.com was having a sale on sandisk cards | 18:32 |
| berndhs | you can try running it with nice -10, might help with locking up your X | 18:32 |
| TimmyT | tnx | 18:33 |
| CosmoHill | hey berndhs | 18:33 |
| TimmyT | and i've another question, before this, i tried nitdroid, it was not rly usable , it had many problems. is meego stable and suitable to use that instead maemo? | 18:34 |
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| TimmyT | shi*, i just used another card reader, it completed in 731.547 s, 5.2 MB/s | 19:02 |
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| ali1234 | anyone got a direct link to the sis file for today's symbian update? | 19:23 |
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| juliank | ali1234: Symbian updates are really not the topic of MeeGo channels | 19:47 |
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| iekku | juliank, +1 | 19:49 |
| javispedro | but they are a twitter trending topic! | 19:53 |
| javispedro | so they should be the topic of every channel! =) | 19:53 |
| javispedro | </lies> | 19:53 |
| ali1234 | i don't wanna talk about it. i just want a link | 19:54 |
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| lupine_85 | ali1234, http://goatse.cx | 20:00 |
| lupine_85 | it's on there somewhere | 20:00 |
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| lcuk | mic code is a bit fiddly, but at least it is python | 20:04 |
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| lcuk | meego vanilla + chocolate would make a splendid UX | 20:45 |
| lcuk | lbt, what is your favourite ice cream? | 20:45 |
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| dm8tbr | < forMeeGoBot> PROBLEM wiki.meego.com HTTP CRITICAL CRITICAL - Socket timeout after 10 seconds Thu Aug 18 17:47:26 UTC 2011 | 20:49 |
| dm8tbr | lbt: I guess that is something in your domain for a change? | 20:50 |
| dm8tbr | (Can't contact the database server: Unknown MySQL server host 'db.in.meego.com' (2) (db.in.meego.com)) - says the web interface | 20:51 |
| javispedro | also f.m.c down | 20:52 |
| chouchoune | "Dqtqbqse error" when connecting the website | 20:52 |
| chouchoune | Database* | 20:52 |
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| javispedro | the "f you are the maintainer of this site, please check your database settings in the settings.php " message clearly needs to be removed ;) | 20:54 |
| lbt | dm8tbr: mmm | 20:56 |
| lbt | gah ... | 20:59 |
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| lcuk | databases being down are frustrating to say the least | 21:08 |
| * lcuk was reading about mic | 21:08 | |
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| lbt | dm8tbr: all OK now? | 21:15 |
| lbt | lcuk: nah, it was my fault. The intenal DNS server was migrated and the 2ndry didn't kick in | 21:15 |
| dm8tbr | lbt: resofixedverified ;) | 21:15 |
| lcuk | confirmed! | 21:16 |
| dm8tbr | ah yeas forgot to put that one in :D | 21:16 |
| dm8tbr | javispedro: what's fmc? | 21:16 |
| javispedro | dm8tbr: forum.meego.com | 21:16 |
| dm8tbr | ah | 21:16 |
| lcuk | lbt, lbt, best way to suggest and advance a ux | 21:17 |
| dm8tbr | I don't think I cared to monitor that one *cough* | 21:17 |
| lcuk | ie a proper meego-ce ux | 21:17 |
| lcuk | with distinct best bits | 21:17 |
| lcuk | like calendaring and shopping built in | 21:17 |
| lcuk | and whatever else we can muster up | 21:17 |
| lcuk | ie, actual new code for the -ce | 21:17 |
| lbt | home made vanilla | 21:17 |
| lcuk | rather than just using and patching existing | 21:18 |
| lcuk | of course | 21:18 |
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| lcuk | but how to describe and get the orchestration of such a thing funded | 21:18 |
| dm8tbr | lcuk: I'd pose that the community UX should be separate from the community hardware adaptations | 21:18 |
| dm8tbr | both should be community efforts and work closely together though ofc | 21:18 |
| lcuk | dm8tbr, the community ux will sit on the adaptions as it currently does | 21:19 |
| dm8tbr | lcuk: yes, ofc | 21:19 |
| dm8tbr | it's just that CE is currently NokLa only, while there are other devices out there | 21:19 |
| lcuk | and would have to be flexible enough and fancy enough to be built and *happily* work on the mainstream meego devices | 21:20 |
| lcuk | dm8tbr, yes | 21:20 |
| lcuk | that is why I am suggesting it | 21:20 |
| lcuk | and trying to add value ontop | 21:20 |
| lcuk | and make an actual plan to build such a thing | 21:20 |
| dm8tbr | *nod* | 21:20 |
| lcuk | ie, to actually integrate happily the apps.formeego | 21:20 |
| lcuk | and have the main ux itself really happily usable day/day | 21:21 |
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| dm8tbr | just the CE naming is currently 'owned' by the nokia efforts and other community hardware adaptations might not want to try and integrate with the nokia people and processes. or should they? | 21:21 |
| lcuk | there are a great many components and pieces in meego currently but needing wow factor | 21:21 |
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| lcuk | dm8tbr, the community effort is the community effort, it is wonderful nokia are building this | 21:22 |
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| dm8tbr | it's a bit bike-shedding, but how about community-UX? | 21:22 |
| lcuk | but it is for all of us and hence all meego | 21:22 |
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| dm8tbr | lcuk: just that during a recent CE meeting the statement was 'we don't know if we want other devices in the CE' | 21:22 |
| lcuk | dm8tbr, yes | 21:22 |
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| lcuk | dm8tbr, link | 21:22 |
| dm8tbr | duh, let me find the irclogs... | 21:23 |
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| lcuk | i can see why not though | 21:23 |
| lcuk | we need to make the ux outstanding | 21:23 |
| lcuk | with wayland coming along | 21:23 |
| ali1234 | lcuk: get someone to make mock ups | 21:23 |
| lcuk | we have the backend to make special stuff | 21:23 |
| lcuk | ali1234, i can provide some | 21:23 |
| lcuk | but again it is longer term funding | 21:23 |
| ali1234 | make a website | 21:24 |
| ali1234 | then ask for coders | 21:24 |
| ali1234 | why would anyone fund this project? | 21:24 |
| lcuk | it is not just coders | 21:24 |
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| ali1234 | you need artists too | 21:24 |
| lcuk | ali1234, it needs a complete team | 21:25 |
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| ali1234 | and designers | 21:25 |
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| dm8tbr | lcuk: I fail to find the CE meeting logs :( | 21:26 |
| dm8tbr | Stskeeps: ^^^? | 21:26 |
| lcuk | and why, because a set of connected devices should run a consistent set of fantastic apps | 21:27 |
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| Stskeeps | dm8tbr: irclogs.meego.com | 21:27 |
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| Stskeeps | dm8tbr: and where did anyone say that about devices?.. | 21:28 |
| Stskeeps | dm8tbr: news to me | 21:28 |
| dm8tbr | Stskeeps: yeah, grrrreat, and _when_ is the meeting? | 21:28 |
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| dm8tbr | there is a pile of logs | 21:28 |
| dm8tbr | and none say which meeting it was in the file name | 21:28 |
| Stskeeps | dm8tbr: check irc schedule? tuesdays for project meeting, thursday for adaptation | 21:28 |
| lcuk | ali1234, meego should bring together the best of open source | 21:28 |
| Stskeeps | meego-handset usually has logs | 21:29 |
| lcuk | in a way that wows | 21:29 |
| ali1234 | it needs direction first | 21:29 |
| dm8tbr | Stskeeps: ah looked at CE not 'Community Edition' *sigh* | 21:29 |
| ali1234 | lcuk: no the question is why should anyone fund *your* attempt at making that happen? | 21:29 |
| ali1234 | lcuk: so far you have not stated any goals different from the meego project as a whole | 21:29 |
| ali1234 | lcuk: isn't that what it is doing? | 21:29 |
| lcuk | ali1234, I am trying to give it direction | 21:29 |
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| Stskeeps | dm8tbr: the devices thing is news to me, please find a quote :) | 21:30 |
| dm8tbr | Stskeeps: yes, I'm looking for it | 21:31 |
| lcuk | ali1234, I am trying to do this because I cannot believe that with the talent around we cannot manage to build a cohesive universal open UX | 21:31 |
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| lcuk | and I would actually prefer to add to davids extensive stuff than do it myself | 21:31 |
| lcuk | snce I see folks much better than I around | 21:31 |
| dm8tbr | Stskeeps: http://irclogs.meego.com/meetbot/meego-meeting/2011/meego-meeting.2011-08-02-10.54.log.html - there the topic came up let me see if I can find what makes me think what I said | 21:32 |
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| lcuk | ali1234, the topic needs discussing to ensure we all have focus | 21:33 |
| dm8tbr | Stskeeps: seems it was just '11:28:57 <jukkaeklund_> yep, enabling Nok-devices and OMAP3 is primary' and '11:28:32 <lcuk> jukkaeklund_, but obviously concentrating on the n9x0 is primary | 21:33 |
| lcuk | dm8tbr, sure | 21:33 |
| lcuk | that is not the same as excluding others | 21:33 |
| dm8tbr | yes | 21:34 |
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| lcuk | that indicates where the focal point is | 21:34 |
| lcuk | we all have nokia devices to work from now | 21:34 |
| lcuk | but in 2 years time, if meego is thriving there will be 100 to choose from | 21:34 |
| dm8tbr | still I'm not sure if it makes sense to build layers here? | 21:35 |
| lcuk | find a way to do it without layers | 21:35 |
| Stskeeps | dm8tbr: think that refers to most of people paid to work focus on, but not excluding anything | 21:35 |
| lcuk | I am all ears (when I get back from smoke) | 21:35 |
| dm8tbr | as forMeeGo was started to give all community hardware adaptations a home | 21:35 |
| dm8tbr | Stskeeps: yes, that's how I read it too now | 21:35 |
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| dm8tbr | lcuk: the question then is if we want to abandon the forMeeGo name all together? | 21:37 |
| Stskeeps | i vote for Mer | 21:38 |
| dm8tbr | Stskeeps: that would be in my opinion a fork-by-name | 21:38 |
| dm8tbr | if you rip out the MeeGo out of the name, what's left? | 21:39 |
| arfoll | you can call it mer and still be meego compliant | 21:39 |
| dm8tbr | arfoll: that's the vendor perspective | 21:39 |
| juliank | MeeFly | 21:40 |
| dm8tbr | vendors want to differentiate from vanilla meego | 21:40 |
| lcuk | dm8tbr, walk into a store and look at numerous computers running Windows | 21:40 |
| dm8tbr | juliank: no pun intended, but that won't fly. We went through a lot of stuff before filing the bugs for forMeeGo | 21:40 |
| juliank | dm8tbr: 4mee | 21:41 |
| lcuk | aside from a frosting of build time things, it is Windows | 21:41 |
| dm8tbr | lcuk: MeeGo doesn't have a decade long history of f*cking up people's experience with computers... | 21:41 |
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| lcuk | dm8tbr, I would want the vanilla meego to be good enough for that to occur | 21:41 |
| lcuk | no, it has 20 years of linux doing same ;) | 21:42 |
| dm8tbr | lcuk: that's linux not meego | 21:42 |
| lcuk | standing on the shoulders | 21:42 |
| dm8tbr | sure, but it doesn't make any sense from a PR perspective | 21:43 |
| dm8tbr | I'm arguing that MeeGo should be ONE thing | 21:43 |
| lcuk | if each vendor has to come along to meego and start their own ux because the existing core one is not good enough | 21:43 |
| lcuk | doesn't that say something | 21:43 |
| lcuk | dm8tbr, I agree | 21:43 |
| dm8tbr | community and commercial efforts should be pushing together | 21:43 |
| dm8tbr | and it does not help if you name something completely different | 21:44 |
| dm8tbr | oh yes XYZ is totally meego, because it's named XYZ | 21:44 |
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| dm8tbr | if the community splits by name, then it will split as a whole | 21:44 |
| dm8tbr | and that will be the beginning of the end. | 21:44 |
| dm8tbr | mene tekel u farsin | 21:44 |
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| lcuk | so how do we gain the momentum to build or repair a UX to be proud of | 21:45 |
| lcuk | the apps.formeego is a different aspect of this | 21:45 |
| * lbt would like to see CE support the exopc | 21:46 | |
| dm8tbr | that would be cool | 21:46 |
| lcuk | lbt, I have applied for exopc | 21:46 |
| lcuk | and will be trying best as always to get it working well | 21:46 |
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| dm8tbr | I still think though we'll have to start thinking what is what. there are parts that are UX and there are parts that are dependant on hardware aka adaptation | 21:47 |
| lcuk | dm8tbr, for sure | 21:47 |
| dm8tbr | another problem that complicates things is that handset is largely MTF AFAICT | 21:48 |
| lcuk | let me mention one place meego uxes need improvement: live desktop of sorts. it is very static and there were some cool mockups somewhere | 21:48 |
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| lcuk | i think we are waiting on technology improvements | 21:48 |
| dm8tbr | Stskeeps has some ideas that go beyond UX | 21:48 |
| lcuk | dm8tbr, yeah Stskeeps and I have spoken for years and volleyed many ideas between each other | 21:49 |
| Stskeeps | dm8tbr: i'd be joyful if we had a meego core programme that actually worked and at least held up to the ideals of the project :P | 21:49 |
| lcuk | ++++ | 21:49 |
| Stskeeps | at the moment it doesn't | 21:49 |
| dm8tbr | it could be interesting to take what will be 1.3 and start building a new community UX on top of that | 21:49 |
| Stskeeps | and it's not even UX'es i'm talking about :) | 21:49 |
| lcuk | i have my existing prototypes and can give ux input | 21:49 |
| dm8tbr | Stskeeps: I know what you mean and although I lack the overview I share the feeling | 21:50 |
| lcuk | everybody is good at different parts | 21:50 |
| lcuk | we just need to become a cohesive unit and follow it through | 21:50 |
| dm8tbr | lcuk: yes, I wouldn't lump device adaptations into the UX though | 21:51 |
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| lcuk | dm8tbr, I wasn't! | 21:51 |
| lcuk | device categories are already there, we just need to organise a UX which spans them | 21:51 |
| dm8tbr | well CE is a community hardware adaptation project | 21:51 |
| Stskeeps | sort of, it's more like hardware adaptation + meego core + a UX | 21:52 |
| lcuk | it is blended at present | 21:52 |
| Stskeeps | layered | 21:52 |
| lcuk | heh | 21:52 |
| Stskeeps | well, in on big trunk.. | 21:52 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 21:52 |
| lcuk | permed | 21:52 |
| dm8tbr | yes, and it would IMHO make sense to untangle this | 21:52 |
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| Stskeeps | well, we're doing the initial 1.3 moves atm | 21:52 |
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| lcuk | lbt, which elements of the exopc would benefit from -CE currently that you see? | 21:53 |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, are we estimating wayland will be there? | 21:53 |
| Stskeeps | probably, but wayland will go first on tablet ux anyway | 21:54 |
| lcuk | or still using x and compositing | 21:54 |
| Ans5i | dm8tbr: maybe the website should be formeegolike.org | 21:54 |
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| lcuk | now that jaffa mentioned the tsg, when is the next meeting? | 21:57 |
| Stskeeps | dunno | 21:58 |
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| dm8tbr | is TSG public or also behind closed doors like so many things I've recently found out about? | 21:59 |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, would an outline towards a proper MeeGo CE UX for 1.4 be reasonable timescale given funding and manpower? | 22:00 |
| lcuk | to actuall get over the niggles and complexities required and ensure the technology phased in for 1.3 are strong | 22:01 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: what matters first is a solid and useful core | 22:01 |
| Stskeeps | a UX by a community is possible, imho | 22:01 |
| Stskeeps | but it requires dedication | 22:01 |
| lcuk | hence me suggesting 1.4 | 22:01 |
| lcuk | give the seeds planted time to grow and mature | 22:01 |
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| * lbt thinks we should be focusing on a minimising effort needed to support multiple devices. | 22:02 | |
| lcuk | ++ | 22:02 |
| lcuk | lbt, I asked same question right at the start | 22:02 |
| dm8tbr | lbt++ | 22:02 |
| lcuk | like: how come we had to redo all the work on n900 adaption when it was already in maemo | 22:02 |
| lbt | target UI ... X or wayland cursor on black background with an xterm | 22:03 |
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| Stskeeps | lcuk: that's more complex, a lot of n900 stuff was tied up in closed source frameworks | 22:03 |
| lcuk | lt, give ui teams chance and scope to create and define awesome | 22:03 |
| Stskeeps | and on ancient kernel by standards | 22:03 |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, yes I know now | 22:03 |
| lcuk | back then I didn't - lbt just reraised the question | 22:03 |
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| * lcuk thinks we have all learnt important lessons over period | 22:05 | |
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| Jaffa | Stskeeps: dm8tbr: lcuk: I think, from talking to Dawn, TSG meetings are now being held as-needed; and there is a feeling that there is no need for them - and that the TSG is increasingly there as a fallback, rather than an active person within the project (my words) | 22:14 |
| Stskeeps | that is true, yes, but it's not like there's really that many left either ;) | 22:15 |
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| Stskeeps | except for arjan on mailing lists | 22:15 |
| lcuk | Jaffa, reasonable though their input would be valued if we are to progress with a plan for 1.4 all meego ce | 22:15 |
| ali1234 | got d/c... stupid traffic shaper doesn't like when i upload youtube videos | 22:16 |
| lcuk | Jaffa, lbt's point about reducing complexity for new device is important | 22:17 |
| lcuk | at present each requires a massive amount of effort | 22:17 |
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| lbt | Jaffa: so ..... what does that mean about the role of CO? | 22:19 |
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| dm8tbr | what I'm missing is a graph of hierarchy and interconnects | 22:31 |
| dm8tbr | who answers to whom etc | 22:31 |
| berndhs | I don't answer to anyone :) | 22:32 |
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| lcuk | dm8tbr, it would be amusing to view irc stats of who talks with who | 22:38 |
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| dm8tbr | lcuk: I've seen stuff this could be done with... just takes idle play hands | 22:38 |
| lcuk | that would get me a meegoverse achievement :P | 22:38 |
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| berndhs | lcuk: there are some people who just talk to themselves in irc | 22:38 |
| * lcuk nods | 22:39 | |
| lcuk | i know sometimes i do | 22:39 |
| w00t_ | dm8tbr: http://www.jibble.org/piespy/ | 22:39 |
| * lcuk gets good answers from himself sometimes :P | 22:39 | |
| lcuk | wow w00t_ :D | 22:40 |
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| TimmyT | i've installed meego summer release on my N900, it was really slow, how to make it faster to run apps? | 22:55 |
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| lcuk | TimmyT, first boot is sluggish | 22:55 |
| lcuk | what are you wanting to use on it? | 22:55 |
| lcuk | TimmyT, as a test of something, could you open the calculator and type "5." | 22:56 |
| lcuk | I am curious how far back bug 20099 has happened | 22:56 |
| MeeGoBot | Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=20099 nor, High, ---, geoff, ASSI, [CE] Calculator crashes after pressing any button and then "." . | 22:56 |
| TimmyT | not calculator, it takes a while to start an app, like terminal or messages, ro change che profile into silent, everything, its really slow, i've installed that on a SD card class 4 | 22:58 |
| ali1234 | wait about half an hour | 22:58 |
| TimmyT | ali1234: wat? | 22:58 |
| ali1234 | on first boot it copies a huge file for no reason | 22:59 |
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| ali1234 | it takes ages | 22:59 |
| ali1234 | and makes the whole system really slow until it finishes | 22:59 |
| ali1234 | nobody can give me a straight answer on what the file is, or why it is copied | 22:59 |
| ali1234 | but there it is | 22:59 |
| Stskeeps | ali1234: sample-media fun, though we don't copy anymore | 23:00 |
| Stskeeps | what's seen now is the slowass tracker indexing | 23:00 |
| Stskeeps | thumbnailing, etc | 23:00 |
| ali1234 | :( | 23:00 |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, what is it thumbaniling though? | 23:00 |
| TimmyT | really? are u saying i leave the phone for half an hour? kuz i've rebooted that and now it's runnig maemo | 23:00 |
| lcuk | there is minimal media | 23:00 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: videos, pictures | 23:00 |
| ali1234 | why that ca't be prepopulated in the image? | 23:00 |
| Stskeeps | ali1234: i keep on asking the same question.. | 23:00 |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, the image contains a movie 1.5mb | 23:01 |
| Jaffa | lbt: CO's in charge, AFAICT | 23:01 |
| ali1234 | TimmyT: pretty much, yes | 23:01 |
| lcuk | Jaffa, indeed | 23:01 |
| ali1234 | maybe not half an hour... maybe 15 minutes | 23:01 |
| * lcuk should benchmark some things | 23:01 | |
| Jaffa | lbt: lcuk: And "architects, maintainers & project owners" | 23:01 |
| TimmyT | ok, so im going to reboot my device | 23:01 |
| lcuk | Jaffa, yes but we need some public projects to have arch and owners! | 23:02 |
| lbt | so meego officially has no leadership ? | 23:02 |
| Stskeeps | arjan's still active and in charge ;) | 23:03 |
| Stskeeps | so i wouldn't say none | 23:03 |
| lbt | ok... it has many leaders who have no public inter-communication | 23:04 |
| lbt | arjan doesn't go to CO meetings | 23:04 |
| lbt | CO meetings are a series of status reports | 23:04 |
| * lbt doesn't say too much about what happens when CO is supposed to act on an issue... sore point | 23:04 | |
| lbt | I suppose we can assume they all read each others emails on the various lists | 23:05 |
| lcuk | there has been defined leadership from jukka and msugano recent months towards the n900-ce | 23:06 |
| lcuk | active participation and managing to find a good balance | 23:07 |
| lcuk | would you agree Stskeeps | 23:07 |
| lbt | Joel is active in ivi | 23:07 |
| Stskeeps | yes, but i'm going to sleep now | 23:07 |
| lcuk | me too | 23:08 |
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| lcuk | btw, Jaffa, lbt - ask Ari if you think meego needs somebody on top | 23:14 |
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| TSCHAKeee | welp, http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/2011/110818b.html?mtxs=rss-corp-news <-- WebOS is dead. | 23:19 |
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| TimmyT | where to get some theme for meego? its theme is not really look like what is shown in website, | 23:21 |
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| TimmyT | anyone knows where to get this theme? https://meego.com/devices/handset/handset-screenshots | 23:33 |
| lcukn900 | timmyt that is the original vanilla ux | 23:36 |
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| TimmyT | that is not available in mine. i've installed community edition 1.2 | 23:36 |
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| lcukn900 | i wonder where an aava is to test its ux against current is | 23:37 |
| arfoll | aava == moorestown == dead. at least that's what i gather | 23:38 |
| timoph | yep | 23:38 |
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| timoph | no images for aava since 1.1 iirc | 23:38 |
| arfoll | i think all dev has gone to medfield, but havent seen stuff for that in a while either | 23:38 |
| qgil_ | javispedro: did you see the webOS news? just checking since this is offtopic :) | 23:38 |
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| javispedro | hah! | 23:39 |
| javispedro | I read about the rumors a few hours ago | 23:39 |
| qgil_ | hm maybe I should read more (for once), my source is the guy sitting next to me in the office and reading the interwebs :) | 23:40 |
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| javispedro | I see that the real news seem to be even worse :P | 23:40 |
| javispedro | [21:52]<javispedro>seemingly my favourite backup platform is going to enjoy something similar to our own elopcalypse .. | 23:40 |
| qgil_ | still, if the news are confirmed the real news will be what HP does next | 23:41 |
| javispedro | engadget got it already also: http://www.engadget.com/2011/08/18/hp-will-discontinue-operations-for-webos-devices/ | 23:43 |
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| antman8969 | what was the url for the osc config file again, was it pub.api.meego.com? | 23:46 |
| antman8969 | oops, api.pub.meego.com, nvm | 23:47 |
| javispedro | ah well, one mobile platform less. albeit some still have hope HP might really end up licensing it. | 23:50 |
| phl0x81 | yeah, just like symbian got licensed so many times xD | 23:50 |
| javispedro | even in the palm world we know how well that works | 23:51 |
| phl0x81 | if at least Qt would run on it... | 23:51 |
| javispedro | it runs... it runs X11 these days after all. | 23:52 |
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| wmarone | webOS runs X11 now? | 23:52 |
| javispedro | _under_ their native windowing system (which is qt embedded based btw) | 23:53 |
| phl0x81 | I know it runs Qt in the back, but I meant more like official support for it. | 23:53 |
| phl0x81 | Palm/HP used Qt in some of their apps for webOS. just like android does. | 23:54 |
| javispedro | not "some", the entire UI is Qt | 23:54 |
| ali1234 | i thought it was like, made out of webs and stuff | 23:56 |
| wmarone | ah | 23:57 |
| javispedro | ali1234: that would like saying meego is made out of qmls javascripts and stuff | 23:57 |
| javispedro | it is their public API. | 23:57 |
| Jaffa | lcukn900: I suspect Ari'll be a bit busy in the next few days :-/ | 23:58 |
| lcuk | Jaffa, indeed | 23:58 |
| ali1234 | meego is not made out of QMLs??? | 23:58 |
| special | that line reminded me of a certain san francisco appup session.. | 23:59 |
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