IRC log of #meego for Friday, 2011-08-19

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CosmoHillDAMMIT00:32
* CosmoHill missed traffic cops00:32
CosmoHillDAMMIT00:32
* CosmoHill also missed Have I Got Old News For You00:32
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CosmoHilland the Big Bang Theory >.<00:34
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* lbt is a new convert to the Big Bang Theory00:37
CosmoHilllbt: http://cross-lfs.org/~cosmo/xkcd-2.JPG00:37
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SpeedEvilMany levels of amusing00:38
ali1234lol notice board in glass case00:38
SpeedEvillegal crap - with 'call 6666 for more info'00:39
* CosmoHill is watching How I Met Your Mother00:39
CosmoHillbored student left alone who knows how to use the printers00:39
CosmoHill(printing is a dark art in this uni)00:39
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JaffaCosmoHill: I've caught sections of it before, but this week I've watched a few (old) episodes - E4+1 showing it when I have dinner. It is good00:50
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antman8969anyone here successfully using osc?01:29
antman8969with obs01:29
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Jaffaantman8969: COBS? Yes. See http://wiki.meego.com/Getting_started_with_OBS01:31
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antman8969I've done most of the setup, but whenever I try to use httpS I'm getting rejected01:32
antman8969wasn't sure if anyone knew some specific gotcha..01:32
antman8969^ jaffa01:33
Jaffaantman8969: Those instructions worked for me (cos I noted them as they worked ;-))01:35
antman8969jaffa: lol yea they worked for me too.. until a few weeks ago and I'm not quite sure why. I can use http://api.pub.meego.com but I can't commit and it complains about ssl....01:36
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Jaffaantman8969: Ah, I've not done anything in the last week or so01:37
Jaffaantman8969: Worth poking X-Fade to see if the SSL cert's expired (always used to happen on maemo.org)01:37
antman8969jaffa yea. I feel like it's probably something I'm doing lol. I'll play around a little before bothering him01:38
berndhswas ok for me 3 days ago01:38
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Jaffaantman8969: Worth asking; can't do any harm. lbt might know too01:39
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antman8969well just to be sure before. Tell me if this looks correct01:40
antman8969apiurl = https://api.pub.meego.com01:40
antman8969user = antman896901:40
antman8969pass = ******01:40
antman8969that should be all for credentials.. (other params as noted in wiki)01:40
Jaffaantman8969: Is that in ~/.oscrc?01:42
antman8969yep01:42
Jaffaantman8969: I literally typed nothing that wasn't in that doc. My ~/.oscrc looks more like:01:42
lbtmm01:43
Jaffaantman8969: http://pastebin.com/Gpyv15Jw01:43
antman8969your default apiurl is api.pub.meego.com right?01:43
antman8969jaffa01:43
lbthttps01:43
lbtantman8969: you said http01:44
antman8969I did http to get around the SSL error lbt, when I do https I get this01:44
antman8969Server returned an error: HTTP Error 401: Unauthorized01:44
antman8969thats from trying osc ls01:45
lbtwhat OS01:45
lbtand what osc01:45
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antman8969ubuntu 10.04, and the OSC from the meego repos01:45
Jaffaantman8969: COBS is the only OBS install I've used on this box, yes01:45
antman8969not the ubuntu one01:45
* Jaffa is using the Ubuntu one on 11.0401:45
antman8969I have  tried the default Ubuntu one as well... But this WAS working a few weeks ago on my laptop, unless I'm crazy01:46
antman8969if I try to do it without https, then I'll get this message lbt01:47
antman8969WARNING: SSL certificate checks disabled. Connection is insecure!01:47
antman8969It works... but can't commit01:47
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lbtmmm01:48
antman8969we don't need to submit any keys to the site do we?01:48
lbtno01:49
antman8969lbt, heres my .oscrc if it helps http://pastebin.com/Av7asLr301:50
antman8969didn't touch anything besides the apiurl, credentials and debug params01:50
lbtset debug and http_debug = 101:51
lbt(general comment  : use_keyring = 1 is useful too ...)01:52
antman8969http://pastebin.com/xBD3Dagr lbt01:53
antman8969nothing obvoius.. i'll try the keyring01:53
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antman8969no luck01:55
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antman8969any idea lbt?01:58
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lbtyeah ... wrong passwd01:59
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antman8969it is the one I use to sign in over the web interface, correct?01:59
lbtyes01:59
antman8969hm.... retried and nothing. I DID change my passwd on the site a few weeks ago to this one. I tried the old password too and nothing02:00
antman8969i'll login to the site again to make sure..02:00
lbtI'm watching logs02:01
* CosmoHill is watching Wilfred (US version)02:01
antman8969just tried again... I'll copy and paste from my oscrc directly into the site to be 100% sure I'm not luckily mistyping..02:01
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antman8969def right password (as far as I can influence)..02:02
antman8969very frustrating...02:03
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antman8969hold up02:05
lbtthe thing is ... the webui just sends your username/pw to the api02:05
lbt....02:06
antman8969I removed the section with my credientials, forcing OSC to prompt me for it on the spot02:06
antman8969and it worked02:06
lbtand if you check the .oscrc02:06
lbtI'm wondering if you had a space in it?02:06
antman8969I'm gona reformat it right now to see...02:07
antman8969while I do that... any weird formatting rules??02:07
lbtno02:07
antman8969it's working now... Im not sure what that was02:07
lbtok .. good02:08
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antman8969well that was a waste of an hour02:08
antman8969thanks lbt..02:08
lbtnp02:09
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npmso what's the whole webOS thing mean for meego?02:57
JaffaWho knows... no more alternative Linux-userland OSes to look to if/when MeeGo fails to take off.02:58
JaffaMore interest from prospective vendors in MeeGo because it's the only "normal"(ish) Linux userland mobile OS?02:59
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JaffaLess interest from prospective vendors in MeeGo because it's the only "normal"(ish) Linux userland mobile OS, and there's never been a successful one; so why take the risk?02:59
npmit's pretty depressing to use a bad economy as a reason to kill an os, especially when it looked somewhat promising03:01
JaffaAbout as depressing as "we couldn't have the range of h/w we desire" :-(03:02
npmyeah exactly03:02
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javispedroJaffa++ about that "the only normalish Linux userland".03:13
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JaffaThat doesn't bother me *too* much, TBH. Jailbroken iPad2 can be SSHed into and wget/screen run on it03:14
JaffaBut, Android feels so boring and I don't want an iPhone03:14
javispedroand probably even run a X11 server on the iPad these days.03:15
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javispedroin fact seemingly the iOS BSD userland is more sane than Android's.03:15
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lcukJaffa, i see very few people actively talking about what hardware they desire - it normally already exists in one category or another and for me personally dualmode screens with capacitive and pen were talked about often long before the htc flyer came around (which I will get as soon as I can afford)04:41
lcukfrom a quick glance meego should build on it :)04:44
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araujoProject:DE:Trunk:Testing is the repository for CE changes right?05:06
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flailingmonkeylooks like WebOS also had issues with first-boot, according to Jaaksi: "It is not speculation. I know. TouchPad didn't handle the first hour of sync, logging in, indexing, and other admisinstrative task well while reviewers were pushing the performance tests at the same time. But after things settle, TouchPad performs much better. And now the new update addresses also some of these concerns."06:18
flailingmonkeyWebOS UX on top of meego core, anyone? :p06:26
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antman8969anyone here familiar with autoconf? trying to build a lib on OBS and running into trouble...06:29
antman8969specifically: configure.ac:113: error: possibly undefined macro: AC_DEFINE06:31
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ellisewhere are this place06:52
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berndhsgood night07:30
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dm8tbrPlease note core OBS is DOWN (that's what the check script for the API says)08:11
Stskeepswasn't me this time08:12
Stskeepsbut it seems to me that it's up?08:12
dm8tbrI saw a blip on ##meego-dashboard :08:12
dm8tbr00:34:22< forMeeGoBot> PROBLEM build.meego.com HTTP CRITICAL CRITICAL - Socket timeout after 10 seconds Fri Aug 19 00:32:06 UTC 201108:12
dm8tbr00:48:46< forMeeGoBot> RECOVERY build.meego.com HTTP OK HTTP OK: HTTP/1.1 200 OK - 9715 bytes in 0.548 second response time Fri Aug 19 00:46:56 UTC 201108:12
Stskeepsright08:12
dm8tbrand checked if API is up using lbt's one liner08:12
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dm8tbrmeego:/tmp# if curl -s "https://api.meego.com/public/lastevents?start=$(echo $(( $(curl -s  https://api.meego.com/public/lastevents | cut -f2 -d'"') - 10 )))" | grep -q "remote error"; then echo Public API down; else echo Public API up; fi08:12
dm8tbrPublic API down08:12
Stskeepsso that happens once in a while, i really think there's a DDoS filter or something08:12
dm8tbrthe problem is that httpd came back but API didn't08:13
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dm8tbreven if I ignore the API downtimes then the pure http downtimes are around 5% of this month08:14
dm8tbrgiven that API was down for a whole weekend and now since 5h the real downtime is probably closer to 10%08:15
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dm8tbractually probably even more08:15
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* dm8tbr would be really glad to see RE get their act together and reach decent service availability08:18
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antman8969libs that the OBS builds should end up in the same place as any other package right?08:22
Stskeepsright08:23
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Stskeepsdm8tbr: i'm not 100% sure if it's a OBS problem.. i've seen similar issue on download.meego.com08:23
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dm8tbrStskeeps: it's the API that goes down together with httpd and does not come back up if httpd is restarted. At least that's how I understood lbt08:30
Stskeepsok08:30
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flailingmonkeyarfoll: I e-mailed the guy who wrote the chrontel code we've been using, (and I'd say WeTab used his code and hacked on it, so its all his code in the end)10:28
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arfollflailingmonkey: to explain the gpio stuff?10:29
flailingmonkeyarfoll: yeah, just told him what I've been up to, trying to get working, etc. He already responded, super informative10:30
arfollnice10:31
dm8tbr\o/ for open source10:31
arfollbtw on c.obs whats the diff between your kernel and what i have on obs?10:31
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flailingmonkeyarfoll: i was partially doing my own kernel thing because I didn't know you had a branch, and also to learn obs stuff10:32
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flailingmonkeyI only enabled kernel config for i2c_chardev and i2c_i80110:33
flailingmonkeyand then there were many others when I was trying to get GPIO stuff :p10:33
flailingmonkeysomething he mentioned was that they had connected the hot plug detect to the NM10 in the Acer chromebook because they thought it would be useful10:33
flailingmonkeyso it might not actually be connected like that in the EXOPC :/10:34
arfollflailingmonkey: ok so same as mine, cool was wondering if we needed more10:34
flailingmonkeyi have been getting the feeling that MeeGo kernel config is... weird or messy10:34
flailingmonkeyoptions all over the place10:34
arfollthat might explain why you had trouble with the gpio stuff10:34
flailingmonkeymake menuconfig has a few warnings about things being selected but missing direct dependencies10:35
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arfollfile a bug ;-) but generally i find the kernel (comparitive to its complexity), is a nice enough pkg10:36
flailingmonkeyit works yeah, but hard to track down through all the options which are really needed and why :p10:36
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arfollthe why is easy; because arjen decided so ;-)10:37
flailingmonkeythe guy, Mark Hayter, also mentioned why they moved the HPD to using GPIO. HPD using chrontel was used for a long time but it requires firmware to be running on the chrontel all the time.10:38
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arfollis having firmware on the chrontel a problem? I guess power consumption?10:38
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flailingmonkeyThat wasn't an issue until they came across a bug where some pictures on some 1080p TVs caused picture jiggle or loss of sync, and it went away when they the firmware stopped running10:39
flailingmonkeyso with the GPIO HPD detection, they only run the firmware when there isn't a monitor attached, because it is needed when the EDID gets read in on connection, etc10:39
arfollah the firmware is only for the EDID info?10:40
flailingmonkeyit probably does more but that is one of the most important functions, and then configuring output resolution etc10:40
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arfollwell having the firmware loaded is probably a better plan than having a weird kernel module, more change of going into meego 1.2/1.310:42
arfolli've still had no reply about bug #15637.10:43
MeeGoBotBug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15637 nor, Medium, ---, peng.li, NEW, [EXOPC] Unable to connect HDMI10:43
flailingmonkeyyeah, Mark didn't work on the nm10_gpio module either. since it was a decision that was specifically made for Acer chromebook to connect HPD to the intel tigerpoint chipset GPIO, it might not even be useful for EXOPC10:43
flailingmonkeydoes anyone have schematics for EXOPC wiring? lol10:44
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arfollwell you could always ask wetab guys10:45
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lcukmorning \o11:02
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Beinerilbt / X-Fade: is publishing/syncing to repo.pub broken atm?11:38
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lbtprod me in 15min11:40
X-FadeBeineri: Should not.11:40
X-FadeBeineri: Ah, let me check.11:41
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BeineriX-Fade: tia11:43
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lcuklbt, what is your MINT project?11:53
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Cy8aer+12:23
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JaffaMorning, all12:26
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lcuklbt, what do you know about long polling and COMET programming12:32
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lbtlcuk: MINT is BOSS/REVS/IMG ... stuff needed/useful to do MeeGo INTegration12:50
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lbtlcuk: nothing12:50
lbtJaffa: hey12:50
lbtBeineri: X-Fade ... all OK ?12:51
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X-Fadelbt: Should be ok yes.12:53
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Jaffalbt: 'lo12:57
lcuklbt, re MINT ahh is it going smoothly?12:58
lbtmmm12:58
lbtit's going faster now12:59
lbtbut a little bumpy12:59
lcukthings are always bumpy12:59
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Beineriack, publishing works again :-)13:15
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jkthi there; I was wondering where I can found source for the N950's Harmattan web browser, the "grob" thing13:20
w00t_it's closed source afaik, like the rest of the UI side of apps13:22
Hq`it's not open source13:22
jktI see, that's a bit disappointing13:22
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Termanamorning13:42
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lcukmorning Termana \o13:45
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iekkuhttp://pics.kuvaton.com/kuvei/how_we_see_others.jpg13:57
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iekkuit's friday, need to have something fun :)13:57
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lcuklol iekku14:00
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lcukSage, I am going to try and build a CommunityEdition for intel device this weekend, do you know if anybody has already experimented yet?14:04
Stskeepslcuk, should work mostly, i mean, we build for x86 too14:05
lcukhttp://repository.maemo.org/meego/n900-de/daily/1.2.0.90.12.20110810.2.DE.2011-08-15.1/images/14:05
lcuklooking on the images folder Stskeeps there are only n900 and n950 builds14:06
lcukif they are built for x86 already, where are they?14:06
Stskeepslcuk, i mean rpms are14:06
Stskeepslcuk, need .ks adjusted for x86 for making image14:07
lcukyes Stskeeps that is expectedI am just trying to see what might be feasible14:08
lcukand how well the apps would work when on more powerful hardware14:08
lcukif I hear back from DawnFoster about the exopc I could even start including it in my testing14:08
Stskeepsi thought you had an exo for some reason14:09
lcukthough I believe she is at the LinuxCon this week14:09
Stskeepslenovo is ok too14:09
lcukStskeeps, I have my lenovo though it runs MeeGo netbook stable14:09
lcukand at this time is in fulltime real use14:09
lcukit has become primary house machine for my journal stuff14:11
Stskeepsok14:11
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lcukStskeeps, jake would keep asking to use it14:12
lcukand until we have meeJournal stuff working on it he would be sad panda14:13
lcukhopefully DawnFoster will read mails and try to see about processing things14:14
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flailingmonkeyi'd test an exopc image for sure14:20
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Sagelcuk: mce is one things that comes to my mind that might have issues with intel hw, but otherwise it probably should work.14:24
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lcukflailingmonkey, more than testing14:32
lcukwould like to make a stable build that simplifies device adaption14:32
lcukas lbt said last night it is quite an important goal14:32
flailingmonkeyaha sensible14:32
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lcukflailingmonkey, improving the firstboot ux is another major one14:33
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flailingmonkeyi've been mainly working on getting exopc hardware supported, and next packaging stuff up for that support14:33
lcuksince on the n900 people are sad panda as indexing and stuff occurs14:33
flailingmonkeyyup14:33
lcukif we can make people smile and give a really warm welcome when they startup their device14:34
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flailingmonkeybetter to have nothing show up in media apps than bad first impression14:34
lcukhalf the battles are done and the rest is easy14:34
RST38hlcuk: present them with money every timethy start the device!14:34
lcukwell on n900-ce at the moment there is bug 13084 which I cannot work out how to cure14:34
MeeGoBotBug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13084 maj, Medium, ---, liquid, ASSI, [n900] Horizontal tearing with xvimagesink14:34
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lcukRST38h, sensible options!14:35
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RST38hlcuk: Present them with porn?14:35
PugVaderany asian phones coming with meego?14:35
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lcukthe preincluded mini games on the n900-ce are a defined step in the right direction14:38
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lcukRST38h, an awesome techdemo (best of Assembly2011 or something) would actually make for decent tech pron14:41
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RST38hlcuk: Not interested in demos14:41
lcukRST38h, for first boot it gives something to watch14:41
lcukrather than blank page syndrome14:41
lcukhere we have the most awesome device in the world, but it needs several hours of your configuration to make it so"14:42
lcukit is the same with many aspects of computing, getting the firstboot experience right is important14:42
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flailingmonkeyeven just saying that it is "calibrating your plasma manifolds" would be a step up14:43
lcukhah yeah14:43
lcukreticulating splines!14:43
flailingmonkeyat least then they'd know "oh its busy, it hasn't just frozen"14:43
lcukthat is not such a bad idea actually flailingmonkey :)14:44
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flailingmonkeythanks :) unfortunately I don't think there's a way to estimate the time tracker takes to complete14:44
DocScrutinizerraster: Hi! :-D14:50
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DocScrutinizerraster: how's embedded business? Any perspectives to share, to better our recently somewhat depressed mood?14:51
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RST38hraster: seriously though,  your little internal project is quickly becoming the ONLY hope in town14:52
DocScrutinizerindeed14:52
RST38hraster: so, some news would be very helpful indeed14:52
PugVaderwhat is depressed?14:53
PugVaderwhat is rasters project?14:54
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henauhm, did raster just say something in the past few minutes?14:55
DocScrutinizerno14:55
DocScrutinizernot here at least14:55
rasterDocScrutinizer: YO14:55
DocScrutinizernow he did :-D14:55
PugVaderIs openmoko phone capable of meego?14:55
rasterRST38h: "LA LA LA" :(14:55
henagood, started to doubt my sanity (and ignores)14:55
rasterRST38h: u'll have to wait14:55
raster:)14:55
rasteri'm still here14:55
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rasterand we're not downsizing or stopping14:55
rasterbusiness as usual14:55
DocScrutinizergood to hear14:55
PugVaderWhat is your project raster14:56
PugVader?14:56
rasterDocScrutinizer: nothing really differenty to say yet14:56
DocScrutinizerhmm14:56
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PugVader#j#jjjjjjjjhfdsfthuozgresfthiuohtfdsftukohtdsdvgkulohtfdftkuojgdsadvgjkulozgresadrgzjilhtrdsftukozgrdsdrgzjiozgresvgnjlhbfdgzjlhtfdsgnjlgdgnjlgrdsfhkltfewhjl14:57
the-bossPugVader: Error: "j#jjjjjjjjhfdsfthuozgresfthiuohtfdsftukohtdsdvgkulohtfdftkuojgdsadvgjkulozgresadrgzjilhtrdsftukozgrdsdrgzjiozgresvgnjlhbfdgzjlhtfdsgnjlgdgnjlgrdsfhkltfewhjl" is not a valid command.14:57
StskeepsPugVader: oi14:57
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DocScrutinizerseemed to me you were close to rollout some 6 months ago14:57
rasterPugVader: ummm it's a biggish project at samsung14:57
rasterlinux "mobile os"14:57
StskeepsSLP or how was it?14:58
rasterits linux as in regular linux14:58
rasternot android14:58
rasteryes14:58
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rasterthats what its known as generally14:58
Stskeepswell, it uses EFL so that was what tipped me :P14:58
DocScrutinizerraster: some links to latest "press releases" or some wiki page, tweet (UEARG!), anything?14:58
rasterfuny that14:58
rasterone of the biggest reasons to be here14:58
raster:)14:58
rasterDocScrutinizer:  nothing to throw at you currently14:59
raster:)14:59
Stskeepsraster: i'm kind of perturbed about some SDK QA people from Intel talking about tips and tricks for SLP SDK14:59
Stskeeps(http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-sdk/2011-August/001502.html )15:00
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w00t_what was it again.. "wrong distro list"?15:00
Stskeepstried to recall the mail and all :>15:00
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DocScrutinizerLOL http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-sdk/2011-August/001506.html15:02
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jargon-has anybody used these "Ultra High Capacity Li-on" batteries before with the n900? http://cgi.ebay.de/QUALITATS-AKKU-BL-5J-NOKIA-5800-5228-C3-X6-N900-/300559370824?pt=DE_Handy_PDA_Akkus&hash=item45fabc0a48   are they any good?15:04
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DocScrutinizerraster: if you (as in Raster & Samsung) don't come up with a tiny notice about SLP right now, you actually miss a great opportunity to get some attention. Mood for receiving such a notice never been better than right now15:07
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rasterStskeeps: how interesting15:08
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DocScrutinizerraster: yeah X-P15:08
DocScrutinizerhowever TLAs are tricky15:08
rasterDocScrutinizer: i know what the field looks like.15:08
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RST38hActually Doc is probably wrong15:09
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RST38hRight now is not the time.15:09
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RST38hThe time will come when every single Android hardware manufacturer will suddenly find out they have got another WinCE on the ir hands15:10
rastermeego has been pretty badly shot in the foot due to nokia dropping it. webos just got badly shafted. android now has its os maker owning a phome maker... will it stay open and a level playing field in the long term? who knows. wp7 is where it always was (no interest to linux/oss people) and ios.. similar15:10
raster:)15:10
RST38hi.e. they do get a free,if somewhat mediocre, OS, but they cannot make their offers to the customers different from other offers15:11
rasterRST38h: i dont speak for samsung in this regard.. but hw makers arent stupid... and they almost all (except moto) are publically saying "cool" and privately are probably going "wtf?.... what now?"15:11
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RST38hraster: A moment15:11
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RST38hraster: It is not even about Motorola, really.15:11
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rasteri have no idea what samsung is doing - but enough peopoe have speculated on this already in blogs15:11
henathe SLP "spec" looks cool15:11
rasteroh this isnt that new15:11
RST38hraster: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/08/04/android_wheres_the_profit/15:11
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RST38hraster: also see http://www.asymco.com/2011/07/29/apple-captured-two-thirds-of-available-mobile-phone-profits-in-q2/15:12
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rasterskyhook court case has exposed some interestign details on android + google + relationships with google hw makers15:12
RST38hYou will see that Samsung is leading, but mostly because of the amount of devices they produce15:12
RST38hThere is very little added value in Android devices15:12
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rasterRST38h:  funny that :)15:13
RST38hBTW, same situation in the Android Market15:13
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RST38hYou basically cannot make money there, neither on selling your product, nor on advertisement15:13
RST38hIn order to do that,you have to move huge volumes of copies, which , of course, only happens for a dozen or so developers15:14
rasteryup15:14
rasterthough thats not vastly differnt on ios/appstore15:14
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rasterthe majority make a loss15:14
rastera big one15:14
RST38hyes15:14
RST38hBut it is not asustainable situation. It cannot continue forever.15:14
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rasterie dont even make enough to pay themselevs the same they would get doign similar work for an employer etc.15:14
rasterand yup15:15
RST38hSO in the next few years we weill see Changes15:15
rasteryup15:15
rasteru can have the current model as long as enough "suckerS" throw good money after bad in hopes of coming out on top15:15
RST38hOne of which will probably be of many developers abandoning app stores15:15
rasterthen again you can argue that about lottery ticketx15:15
rastertickets15:15
rasterthe appstore (or market) is a lottery ticket15:15
RST38hExcept lottery tickets are a form of entertainment15:16
rastereffectively15:16
rasterhehe15:16
rastersure15:16
rastereffort and cost required are miniscule15:16
rasterpossible payback is huge15:16
rasterbut then again the odds are miniscule too15:16
RST38hyes, by definition, or nobody would play15:16
rasteran appstore - effort is large, odd are better than lottery, payback is.. not as good but... stil can be in the millions15:17
RST38hnah15:17
RST38hodds are actually about the same or even lower :)15:17
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RST38hCut off at the amount of profit that makes it worth participating15:18
RST38hand you will get rather meager odds15:18
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rastertrue15:25
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RST38hAnd why are we forgetting the Chinese?15:27
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RST38hWho have sufficient low-cost low-quality developerresources to carpet bomb theapp stores with dirt cheap apps15:28
RST38hSometimes recompiledand adopted GPL code or repackagedstufffromother developers15:28
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spenapRST38h, your space bar doesn't seem to work fine, don'tknowifyounoticed :P15:32
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berndhsmorning15:33
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lcukw00t_, are you currently using saesu for local sync daily15:35
lcukmorning berndhs15:35
w00t_lcuk: for some things15:36
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lcukw00t_, it would be good to build a game with similar lan multicast stuff15:37
lcukto have all your contacts as characters in it and more join as your devices come into the lan15:37
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rasterRST38h:  we already forget the chinese. poor buggers. :(15:48
berndhs q15:50
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rasterRST38h:  but by that logic... apple is doomed. china can just make cheap iphone-like things :)15:50
rasterreality is.. brand and image matter a lot... so until the chinese gain brand image... its a threat only to those who are competing only on price15:51
abraster, they do, even cloned Steve with one of their CEOs15:51
rasterab: hahahah15:51
psycho_oreosoh lawdy, two Steves15:52
psycho_oreosthe world is gonna have its hands full15:52
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rasterdouble-stevin' it yo15:52
abraster, jokes aside, Chinnese government has simpler ways to decrease profitability of american companies. Along with US government.15:54
rasterdoesnt bother me15:54
rasteri work for a korean one :)15:54
psycho_oreosafterall it has bought US's currency :)15:54
psycho_oreossouth or north? ;)15:55
rasternorth of course!15:55
rastergod15:55
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rasterwho do you take me for..15:55
rasterif offered the ability to join the axis of evil... what do u think i'd do?15:55
psycho_oreoskim jong il in disguise ;)15:55
raster:)15:55
abobviously, raster *hates* 'go south'15:55
* raster MUWHAUAHAUAHAHAUAUAHAHAUAHAHA's15:55
psycho_oreosRussia is also a pretty nice place to be in ;)15:56
psycho_oreosas is Vietnam15:56
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madsaraAnyone here using Meego for In Car?16:37
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lcukmadsara, there is a dedicated IVI team16:43
lcukwhat is your ponderment16:43
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madsaralcuk: Question is basically a poll to determine if people prefer it or something else for IVI.16:51
Robot101madsara: most people don't choose their IVI platform, they choose a car and get whatever is given to them...16:52
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Robot101you'd have to be a /very/ dedicated geek to choose your car based on its IVI platform16:52
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lcukRobot101, what about the pasenger units for folks in the back, they can be after market addons17:01
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lcukpassenger *17:01
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Robot101what, you duct tape an ipad to the seat? I don't think that accounts for any non-trivial part of the IVI market :P17:02
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berndhsRobot101: velcro would work better. and it could be the majority of the market, there are more passengers than drivers. drivers should not be entertained in the first place17:04
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lcukRobot101, of course not but everything has to start somewhere!17:05
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lcukhttp://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_10001_catalogId_10151_productId_241769_langId_-1_categoryId_16574317:08
lcukRobot101, in car headrest dvds are popular17:08
Robot101fsvo popular including I wasn't even aware they existed :P17:09
lcuksample size ;)17:09
berndhswell, perhaps not pupolar with the auto manufacturers :)17:09
Robot101this is like a netbook, at some point they become the same price as a proper laptop and the section disappears. in this case, the car manufacturers will be able to add them cheaply enough (or cheaper than the add-on)17:09
lcukin the "In car tech" section of local halfords17:09
berndhsyou would want a standard protocol so the units could do multi-player games and such17:10
lcukyeah berndhs17:10
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lcukgps readonly capabilities so kids can have "are we nearly there yet" answered digitally17:10
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lcukmind you, two way gps would be good, let the kids add stop off points at mcdonalds and such *grin*17:11
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berndhsaha, the IVI system is turning into a server17:12
lcukberndhs, the IVI is anyway, with ipod dock on most "simple" car stereos17:14
berndhsyes, happened already17:15
lcukinputs from the various cameras for parking etc17:15
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lcukberndhs, networking to sharing movies is a bit more complex17:17
lcukespecially when passengers want different ones17:17
* lcuk should go into the Renault garage and see what IVI they have17:18
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lcukI know they were investigating meego stuff a while ago17:18
berndhsbetter jhave individual movie channels, the whole idea is to keep the passengers quiet17:18
lcukyeah17:19
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lcukberndhs, considering the form factor and position of rear seat ivi17:26
lcukwhat sorts of games would suit17:26
lcukor would you also include a games controller/mote thingie17:26
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berndhsracing games, flight simulator ?17:26
berndhsi don't know, i dont play games much17:27
lcukthose assume a handheld controller17:27
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Guest48760Is there meego qt channel?17:27
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berndhsis there something that converts between rpm  and debian changelog ?17:28
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lcukberndhs, not that I have come across but sample size17:29
berndhsyeah17:29
berndhswithout some tool, i put change comments in git. THen in the rpm foo.changes, then in debian, then in osc commit comment17:30
lcukyeah I looked for something17:30
lcukperhaps lbt will know, he was trying to get changelogs and versions in sync a while ago17:30
lcuks/was trying/managed/17:31
infobotlcuk meant: perhaps lbt will know, he managed to get changelogs and versions in sync a while ago17:31
berndhsmany people must be annoyed but this :)17:31
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berndhsactually, osc grabs the foo.changes file, sometimes17:32
gabrbeddberndhs: an RPM changelog does not require version info... just date.  So rpm.changelog --> debian.changelog can't be done universally.17:32
juliankberndhs: Use the git log and create the changelogs from it.17:32
gabrbeddberndhs: however, debian.changelog --> rpm.changelog seems quite possible to do.17:32
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berndhshmm17:33
lcukgabrbedd, :)17:33
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juliankgit-dch creates Debian changelogs from git logs, there's probably something for rpm as well17:33
lcukbbiab anyway, trying to grok mic217:33
juliankAlthough I don't know whether you get git-dch working in a non-Debian environment17:34
gabrbeddberndhs: Yeah, I think juliank's suggestion is probably a better approach.  Create your changelogs from git instead of rpm <--> debian.17:34
berndhsright, git->rpm and git->debian would work, and perhaps keep people more honest in git comments17:35
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pawlikHello.  Can meego run on the OMAP4 Motorola Droid 3?  http://www.motorola.com/Consumers/US-EN/Consumer-Product-and-Services/Mobile-Phones/DROID-3-by-MOTOROLA-US-EN19:08
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pawliknew $53019:09
pawlikit could be like a n950, no?19:10
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tim____hi guys what apps does meego have?19:41
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Andy1210Hi, i compiled a game for harmattan, and installed to N950, and i compiled new build, then copied the new binary to game's folder. The N950 is rebbooted, and i get this message: "Device is malfunctioning" pls try reflash blablabla Security problem (meegotouchome): /opt/mygame/mygame19:46
Andy1210any idea?19:46
Andy1210i copied the new binary as root... but i don't know, what is this security error.. and why?19:48
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tim____what apps does meego have at the moment19:52
lcuktim____, better question would be what are you looking for19:54
lcukor are you expecting to see all of them listed on irc?19:54
tim____i havnt got meego yet im still deciding19:56
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ali1234meego has all the same apps as maemo19:57
ali1234except when they haven't been ported yet19:57
ali1234so more accurately, meego has a subset of the apps maemo has19:57
tim____cool so it still has fm transmitter19:58
tim____do they work as expected?19:58
pawlikAndy1210: does meego check for binary signatures after installing?19:59
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dm8tbrAndy1210: do not copy binaries, always install the deb20:02
dm8tbrAndy1210: your questions are better asked on #harmattan though20:02
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berndhsthe people who decided to use "*" to mark things in files to be processed with sh deserve punishment21:18
CosmoHillcould you give an example?21:18
berndhs10 lashes21:19
CosmoHillI meant of the crime21:19
berndhsitems in changelogs for rpm and deb21:19
CosmoHillalso a lash could be a night out, depending upon what part of essex you're in21:19
berndhslashes like in the old Navy tradition21:19
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berndhsyou forgot to salute your superior officer, 10 lashes21:19
CosmoHillI know what I means21:20
CosmoHillI was making a joke about essex21:20
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CosmoHillberndhs: http://download.bluesquarelinux.co.uk/felix/SPECS/zsh.spec21:20
lupine_85<3 *21:20
CosmoHillwould this be guilty of the crime?21:20
CosmoHilllupine_85: that would make you a slut since you love everything21:21
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berndhsright21:21
CosmoHillberndhs: really? cos that's the spec file format21:21
berndhsexactly21:21
lupine_85:p21:21
CosmoHillah I see now21:21
berndhsyou try to grab stuff out of those files with little shell scripts, out put stuff in,...21:22
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CosmoHillI'm just happy if it makes the RPM without anything catching on firee21:28
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pawliksmoku: do you have an omap4 with meego?21:31
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smokupawlik, no21:32
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smokupawlik, or yes. depending whether you count harmattan as meego ;-)21:33
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Stskeepsomap4?21:33
Stskeeps:P21:33
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* CosmoHill wishes his sky+ box worked21:35
smokuStskeeps, all omaps are same to me.  I don't track these numbers ;-)21:35
GAN900Harmattan is OMAP3630.21:36
juliankCool persons run OMAP5s - until it's publically available than that's only slightly cool anymore21:37
pawlikif motorola unlocks the bootloader, then the droid 3 can run meego i think21:38
pawlikmaking it an excellent phone21:38
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CosmoHillgood lord berndhs, what have you done now?21:38
SpeedEvilUnlocked bootloader is half of it.21:38
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GAN900Droids have crap keyboards.21:38
berndhsyeah see all those * ?21:39
pawlikSpeedEvil: there is already meego builds for omap4 pandaboard i think21:39
CosmoHillberndhs: this must be your personal hell then?21:39
lcukJaffa, I noticed you say something about apps modifying their layout when viewed as thumbnails in the dashboard21:39
SpeedEvilUnlocked bootloader is useless if there is no userlevel software that can talk to the driver21:39
lcukthis is nice principle21:39
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lcukdo you know which do this?21:39
lcukand is it just another qml state to allow this21:39
pawliki do not know how to make a bootloader21:40
lcukit would be productive to document this21:40
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SpeedEvilpawlik: Consider what happens now if you can't talk to the modem in the phone, as it has a hardware driver with an undocumented interface.21:41
pawlikoh yes21:41
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lcukSpeedEvil, the n950 for instance is getting a meego-ce21:41
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lcuksure each device will take time, but once we get base ux happy to work without much in the way of external requirements it will be better21:42
lcukbecause devices can be up and working quicker21:42
lcukand useful21:42
SpeedEvilTo a degree, yes.21:42
lcukbug 20099 for instance needs merging upstream21:42
MeeGoBotBug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=20099 nor, High, ---, geoff, ASSI, [CE] Calculator crashes after pressing any button and then "." .21:42
lcukthen even without a modem the meego-ce can work as desktop calculator ;)21:43
SpeedEvilBut if for example there is a hardware 'driver' for the modem, in a device which simply talks to an undocumented binary blob for which you do not have source, then there is an issue.21:43
berndhsi should see if I can be useful with the meego-ce people and n95021:43
lcukberndhs, yes21:43
berndhswho are they ? they have meetings I think21:43
Stskeepsberndhs: #meego-arm21:43
berndhsaha, I'll go look21:43
Stskeepsberndhs: meetings on tuesdays (whole project), adaptation thursday21:44
lcukberndhs, there are a number of us21:44
lcuksame faces from n900 adaption team21:44
lcukjukka eklund msugano are team lead21:44
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berndhsI'll look for meeting logs and such, see what's missing21:44
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lcukberndhs, there is a full list somewhere of people participating in the n90021:47
lcukit is a great list21:47
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lcukStskeeps, can you remember the url21:47
lcukwas in the meeting this week afaik21:47
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lcukhttp://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Contributors21:48
lcukahhah21:48
Jaffalcuk: yup?21:48
lcukJaffa, question up there ^21:49
Jaffalcuk: You can see Clock do it, for a simple example: it removes the second hand. gPodder does it as well - showing a "now playing" overlay when in the task manager.21:49
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Jaffalcuk: There's a state on pageWindow which represents "thumbnail" IIRC. I assume that's how they do it21:49
lcukbbl thanks Jaffa21:50
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tim____does the maemo software like fm transmitter work well on meego21:53
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Jaffatim____: Fremantle's FM transmitter is part of the OS; so "it" doesn't run on MeeGo. As for FM TX in MeeGo, that will depend on hardware capabilities. I don't think any of the current devices support it21:54
tim____damm21:54
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ali1234current devices?22:03
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ali1234at least 50% of them do22:03
ali1234i don't know if the N950 does or not22:03
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pawlik_n950 has no fm tx22:08
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jedixwhy does osc want to connect to my xserver now?22:29
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jedixah, keyring bs.22:33
jedixand no-keyring still wants to use my x server22:34
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jedixis there any way to stop osc from using a keyring?22:35
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Bostikif you find out how, please tell me too because I haven't managed to get it obey my wishes in that regared22:36
jedixwilco22:37
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jedixthis is so very broken22:41
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lbterr22:43
lbthave you read the comments in ~/.oscrc ?22:43
lbtand the values ... things like "use_keyring=1" ... :)22:44
lbtBostik: jedix ^^22:44
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Bostiklbt: osc doesn't honour them, at least for my use22:45
Bostikregardless of keyring/gnome_keyring values the client blindly assumes I have a keyring22:45
rgs_anyone else having bizarre osc problems when trying to commit stuff?22:45
lbttry #obs then if you've found a bug22:46
lbt(I have to say it seems to work fine here - I'm honestly not sure/bothered where it's storing it though)22:46
lbtrgs_:  ?22:46
Bostikit seems to work rather nicely *IF* I happen to have a gnome desktop (like my laptop does) but a custom WM-only system I have for my real desktop system is a problem22:47
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* lbt runs kde FTW22:47
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lcuk\o lbt23:05
jedixlbt: yes23:06
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jedixlbt: use_keyring = 0; keyring = 0; rm -rf ~/.kde ~/.gnupg ~/.GConf ~/.gnome ~/.gnome2 .. still bitches23:06
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jedixI'm also in #obs asking.23:07
jedixno solution there either23:07
jedixwhy in gods name does the obs server command line interface try to connect to x at all?23:08
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jedixBostik: remove libgnome-keyring0 python-keyring23:15
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lbtjedix: Bostik would be happy to be cc'ed in a (suse?) bug report about this23:21
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lbtadd a . after Bostik :)23:21
jedixlbt: sounds peachy, pm me his email please?23:21
lbtmmm add a ", I" after Bostik :)23:22
lbtOK ... from scratch : jedix, Bostik, I would be happy to be cc'ed in a (suse?) bug report about this23:22
jedixah, okay23:27
jedixwhat's your email then?23:28
dm8tbr'Symbian, Meego and WebOS have all either been mothballed or have been given a termination date.' - heh I love it when journos get it wrong...23:29
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dm8tbralthough nowadays I'm not sure how close that is to the truth...23:29
jedixyeah, I saw that too23:29
berndhshave to look for a while for journos to get something right actually, in all subjects23:30
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jedixlbt: what's your email?23:35
jedixlbt, Bostik: Bug 71326123:37
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htmldont you guy just talk?23:52
pawlikwe like a high signal to noise ratio23:53
timakimaafter the summer it looks like both are very silent... :(23:54
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pawlikhello mr openstreetmap, thanks for your work harbaum23:55
harbaumhi, you're welcome23:56
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pawlik:)23:59
pawliklucky owner23:59

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