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| flailingmonkey_ | Alison_Chaiken: how is the update going | 00:11 |
|---|---|---|
| Alison_Chaiken | flailingmonkey, update was successful. On with the show. | 00:11 |
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| flailingmonkey_ | huzzah :) | 00:12 |
| flailingmonkey_ | the tablet images should install adobe-release along with flash-plugin, because otherwise updates from the adobe repository fail with zypper | 00:13 |
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| Elvard | Evening! I have a problem with my network connection. After connection cable in, connman sets up new dhcp connection, ping works fine, but when I try to access the internet (browser, zypper), suddenly it stops work... route -n are the same, resolv.conf is the same, but ping says: Destination host unreachable | 00:14 |
| Elvard | moreover, there are some "strange" established connections in netstat (surely not mine) | 00:14 |
| Elvard | Have anyone experienced this? | 00:15 |
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| CosmoHill | flailingmonkey lost his tail | 00:16 |
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| flailingmonkey | zypper also does not respect the repo file setting or command line setting to not check gpg signatures | 00:16 |
| Alison_Chaiken | flailingmonkey, career update just dropped too. A round of . . . asterisks for everyone. May this one last longer than my Nokia gig. | 00:18 |
| flailingmonkey | Alison_Chaiken: yay job offers | 00:20 |
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| berndhs | job offers are good | 00:22 |
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| flailingmonkey | Alison_Chaiken: leaving Nokia gig, or did the gig end | 00:23 |
| Alison_Chaiken | Nokia continues to employ us MeeGons, but no one there is paying attention. | 00:23 |
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| flailingmonkey | Alison_Chaiken: as I would have suspected | 00:24 |
| Alison_Chaiken | Good point about adobe repo. Maybe I need to update that repo URL as well. | 00:25 |
| flailingmonkey | When I checked it, it wasn't tied to a snapshot/image, it is adobe's external repo | 00:26 |
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| KaIRC | wtf? "Motorola may start demanding patent royalties from other Android handset makers." http://lwn.net/Articles/454723/rss | 01:24 |
| KaIRC | shows very well why we need an open alternative player in the mobile market | 01:25 |
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| wmarone_ | pessimistic: being meego would not protect anyone | 01:33 |
| flailingmonkey | KaIRC: without software patent reform, I would suspect that an open alternative player would be just another target | 01:33 |
| wmarone_ | google is just a convenient target | 01:33 |
| berndhs | they learned this tactic from diving futbol players | 01:35 |
| KaIRC | flailingmonkey: first, anything that is not largely successful is not a target - second, a really open system is harder to target | 01:36 |
| flailingmonkey | KaIRC: i suppose that first point explains why no one is suing anyone about WP7 =P | 01:37 |
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| KaIRC | flailingmonkey: yet, yes - once there will be successful Windows Phone handsets, there will be some suing (and M$ has repeatedly shown that their enourmous market power is enough to force success in any market that is near enough to a full computer) | 01:40 |
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| wmarone_ | KaIRC: an open system isn't harder to target, you simply attack those who distribute it. you just do as microsoft does, and pick your targets carefully | 01:41 |
| wmarone_ | they could totally do an oracle and sue google, but google would fight. the oems just rolled over, which was the point | 01:42 |
| flailingmonkey | oh nice, it looks like the bluetooth stuff on exopc will be sorted out with new kernel. | 01:43 |
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| Chat4723 | hello world | 01:45 |
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| flailingmonkey | arfoll: over this weekend I am going to try to get the chromium guys' chrontel stuff working. and have to buy a minihdmi cable | 01:52 |
| KaIRC | wmarone_: I said the _system_ is harder to target | 01:52 |
| arfoll | flailingmonkey, cool - btw check out home:arfoll:codecs | 01:59 |
| arfoll | it links to xbmc-testing so you need that repo as well | 01:59 |
| flailingmonkey | arfoll: i just saw the gst-plugins-ugly package got built :) | 01:59 |
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| arfoll | night! | 02:00 |
| flailingmonkey | what is the difference between MeeGo Trunk standard and MeeGo current Core standard | 02:02 |
| flailingmonkey | arfoll: night | 02:02 |
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| arfoll | flailingmonkey, Trunk = 1.2, currently = latest (if you're confused so am I ;-)) | 02:02 |
| flailingmonkey | arfoll: yeah, i really hope they work out all this terminology into something sane. thanks again :) | 02:03 |
| arfoll | it's a c.obs issue. even when taking the 1.2 target from their non adv. list you end up with it being called trunk | 02:04 |
| arfoll | i think it's because it's using 1.2 and not 1.2.0 (which is the release) | 02:04 |
| arfoll | anyawys 'nuf. cyao | 02:04 |
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| Andy80 | how do I discover the assigned ip address of my N950? ifconfig is not available... I need to connect with SSH to it... | 02:20 |
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| berndhs | Andy80: nmap ? | 02:28 |
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| Andy80 | berndhs: is it included? | 02:32 |
| Andy80 | ah.... | 02:32 |
| Andy80 | nope... you mean scanning the net? | 02:33 |
| berndhs | no, run nmap on another machine, see who is new in your network | 02:33 |
| Andy80 | is it possible that no other way available :\ ? | 02:33 |
| berndhs | don't know, but this way will work, take maybe 10 minutes including installing nmap/zenmap on another machine | 02:34 |
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| ahf | Andy80: "ip addr" works for me on the n9 at least | 02:34 |
| berndhs | unless you local network is really big and confusing | 02:34 |
| Andy80 | ahf: thanks :) you saved me ^_^ | 02:36 |
| ahf | np | 02:36 |
| Andy80 | berndhs: just to try... what is the syntax to do it with nmap? | 02:36 |
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| berndhs | don't remember, i use the gui | 02:37 |
| ahf | depends on what you want to do. | 02:37 |
| ahf | i "usually" use nmap -T4 -sS -O -P0 $IP | 02:37 |
| berndhs | nmap is fun :) | 02:37 |
| ahf | Andy80: you can also enable the developer mode and get some icon in the app grid that gives you the info | 02:39 |
| ahf | for using with the qt sdk | 02:39 |
| ahf | it's awesomely easy to use | 02:39 |
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| Andy80 | ahf: the developer mode should be enabled I think... maybe I don't know these apps that give info | 02:40 |
| ahf | Andy80: look for sdk connection or something like that | 02:41 |
| Andy80 | ahf: yes, it's there. It was so easy, I'm n00b -.- | 02:42 |
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| ahf | Andy80: it works very nicely if you get the latest version of the qtsdk. it also contains some fairly basic documentation about how to use it | 02:43 |
| ahf | just remember to pick the custom installation and enable the experimental harmattan components | 02:43 |
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| Andy80 | yeah I've it | 02:44 |
| Andy80 | I've already deployed my application on it | 02:44 |
| ahf | ah, nice | 02:44 |
| ahf | looking forward to see it in the store ;-P | 02:44 |
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| Andy80 | I can give you the .deb if you want I tried to put it on OBS but it took me more time than coding it O_o | 02:45 |
| Andy80 | at the moment I've to finish fiximg a couple of features, then I'll release an upgrade | 02:45 |
| Andy80 | (p.s: it's CuteSoma, a Soma.fm client) | 02:45 |
| ahf | nah, i am flashing my device too often for that right now. i am usually just browing the store and fetches whatever new i find | 02:46 |
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| Andy80 | how do you reflash it? I mean.... do we have the fw available somewhere? | 02:47 |
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| ahf | Andy80: no, don't think so. i work for nokia so it's my work device | 02:48 |
| Andy80 | ah ok | 02:49 |
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| phdeswer | Andy80, the default ip set on the N950/N9/N900 should be 192.168.2.15 (should be in the developer docs) | 03:04 |
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| phdeswer | And should be adjustable to your needs by editing /etc/network/interfaces (just as in debian) | 03:05 |
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| CosmoHill | phdeswer: wait what, why do the N900 have a static IP address? | 03:16 |
| CosmoHill | *why should | 03:16 |
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| Termana | morning | 03:17 |
| SpeedEvil | Because you don't have ip resolution working on your wlan network | 03:17 |
| CosmoHill | morning | 03:17 |
| phdeswer | CosmoHill, that is just for the usb ssh | 03:17 |
| CosmoHill | ah usb, that makes more sense | 03:18 |
| SpeedEvil | ah | 03:18 |
| phdeswer | But well I might have jumped to conclusions for the ip just reading ssh... | 03:19 |
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| kamui | does meego 1.2 netbook have soft keyboard support? | 06:06 |
| kamui | I want to install this on my tablet | 06:06 |
| kamui | and if possible, keep the tabbed netbook interface | 06:07 |
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| kamui | last time I poked around the tablet interface the experience I was looking for just wasn't there | 06:07 |
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| berndhs | uptime | 06:09 |
| berndhs | 23:09:40 up 15:03, 5 users, load average: 0.15, 0.61, 0.78 | 06:09 |
| berndhs | good night | 06:10 |
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| Alison_Chaiken | kamui, there is a way to get soft keyboard on netbook (Lenove S10) that I saw posted on somebody's blog. I tried and it worked. If I poke around, I can probably find the link,. | 07:31 |
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| kamui | I found something useful Alison_Chaiken thanks | 07:35 |
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| kamui | what im struggling iwth is a stupidly slow response time from the repos | 07:35 |
| kamui | makign it impossible to do anything | 07:35 |
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| kamui | are there mirrors for zypper repositories | 07:45 |
| kamui | ? | 07:45 |
| kamui | im having a hell of a dtime with download.meego.com | 07:45 |
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| kamui | is there a nightly image that has a 2.6.39 or later kernel | 08:14 |
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| kamui | Im having hell getting the software list to refresh | 08:14 |
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| kamui | starting to think it might be wifi drivers in this tablet | 08:14 |
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| dm8tbr | you might need to mic2 the image yourself. I think i've seen 2.6.39 or 3.0 meego kernels around, at least experimental. also depends ono the hardware etc | 08:19 |
| kamui | pinetrail | 08:20 |
| kamui | I can't seem to download it using zypper | 08:20 |
| kamui | download stalls pretty fast | 08:20 |
| kamui | so I manually downlaoded the rpm | 08:20 |
| kamui | but its griping about a dependency to hardlink | 08:20 |
| kamui | I could always ignore the dep, but I have no idea how to activate the new kernel at that point | 08:21 |
| Alison_Chaiken | kamui, did you copy a file in /usr/lib or /lib where you should have symlinked it? | 08:21 |
| kamui | no, the download is an rpm | 08:21 |
| kamui | kernel-adaptation-pinetrail....rpm | 08:21 |
| Alison_Chaiken | What does the error message say about hardlinks then? | 08:21 |
| kamui | failed dep: hardlink is needed by kernel-adaptation-pinetrail-devel-2.6.39 | 08:22 |
| dm8tbr | install it then :) | 08:23 |
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| Alison_Chaiken | Ah, I saw that message before: you need to zypper install hardlink! | 08:23 |
| kamui | hmm | 08:23 |
| kamui | that aint gonna work too well | 08:23 |
| kamui | zypper isn't installing crap for me | 08:23 |
| kamui | thats why I did the manual download | 08:23 |
| kamui | let me look for the hardlink package | 08:24 |
| dm8tbr | hmm is the weekend starting early in the US this week? | 08:24 |
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| Alison_Chaiken | Nope, no holidays here, although of course it's a time of year when a lot of folks are on vacation. | 08:26 |
| * dm8tbr won't cry wolf just yet, but my icinga monitoring tells me a story | 08:29 | |
| dm8tbr | I guess I'll take a shower, get breakfast and see how things are then | 08:29 |
| kamui | ok, it installed | 08:31 |
| kamui | so a reboot is all I should need I suppose | 08:31 |
| kamui | if this fails, im gonna have to hang it up for tonight | 08:31 |
| kamui | success :) | 08:31 |
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| kamui | now if I can only fix my damn repo problem | 08:31 |
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| dm8tbr | ah, was just one of those 30min 'network' problems it seems. obs is back | 08:53 |
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| iekku | morning | 09:07 |
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| Alison_Chaiken | Snort: http://www.gartner.com/it/page.jsp?id=1764714 | 10:23 |
| Alison_Chaiken | Check out M.S. and Bada. "Two turkeys don't make an eagle." | 10:23 |
| gabriel9 | nice stats | 10:24 |
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| CosmoHill | http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/285086_233561106680600_232804136756297_601777_381169_n.jpg | 10:51 |
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| CosmoHill | er I mean morning | 10:51 |
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| brik | ohh, I want one! :P | 10:52 |
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| CosmoHill | brik: you may also like: http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/282143_233560800013964_232804136756297_601768_8100641_n.jpg | 10:54 |
| brik | lol.. | 10:55 |
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| CosmoHill | I love that people are tagged in them | 10:59 |
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| lcuk | morning meego folks | 12:20 |
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| arfoll | morning' | 12:21 |
| * lcuk looks at todays agenda | 12:21 | |
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| iekku | lcuk, my agenda is good | 12:22 |
| iekku | lcuk, finalize tomorrows presentation, enjoy your life, don't do work | 12:23 |
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| coly | hi, I am trying to install meego on my N900 | 12:36 |
| coly | following http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Install/EMMC | 12:36 |
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| coly | I power on the device, connect it to my openSuSE 11.4 | 12:38 |
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| coly | choose PC suit mode on N900 | 12:38 |
| coly | I run the bellowed command, and got response like this | 12:39 |
| coly | ./n900-de-emmc-installer.sh -i ./mg-handset-armv7nhl-n900-ce-stable-1.2.0.90.6.20110630.4.DE.2011-07-01.1-mmcblk0p.raw.bz2 -f -k ./mg-handset-armv7nhl-n900-ce-stable-1.2.0.90.6.20110630.4.DE.2011-07-01.1-vmlinuz-2.6.37-24.2.DE-adaptation-n900 | 12:39 |
| coly | *** WARNING: This will over write your device's eMMC and harm your maemo5 installation. Use this at your own risk. *** | 12:39 |
| coly | Please turn your device off, connect usb cable to it. Press enter when you are ready to start the installation. After pressing enter power on the device. | 12:39 |
| coly | ctrl+c to abort | 12:39 |
| coly | flashing initramfs image | 12:39 |
| coly | flasher v2.5.2 (Oct 21 2009) | 12:39 |
| coly | USB device found found at bus 002, device address 034. | 12:39 |
| coly | Error claiming USB interface: Device or resource busy | 12:39 |
| coly | flashing done | 12:39 |
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| * CosmoHill silences a hard drive by putting a cushion on top of it | 12:51 | |
| MSM | =-O | 12:51 |
| gabriel9 | :D | 12:52 |
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| CosmoHill | wait, that sounds like I'm trying to murder it | 12:53 |
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| CosmoHill | (I am but that's not the point) | 12:54 |
| gabriel9 | yes | 12:54 |
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| gabriel9 | :D | 12:54 |
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| CosmoHill | (fyi I literary put a cushion on top of it) | 12:55 |
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| gabriel9 | is there a possibility to make some widget for n950? | 14:04 |
| gabriel9 | i have some nice idea for one | 14:04 |
| lcuk | whats the nice idea | 14:05 |
| gabriel9 | widget == it is placed on desktop | 14:05 |
| _nicolai_ | X-Fade, I would like to get access for build.pub.meego.com. My meego.com username is nicolai. I am one of the n950 devkit participants. | 14:06 |
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| gabriel9 | lcuk, i will share the code, but for now it is a secret :P | 14:07 |
| gabriel9 | it will be free | 14:07 |
| X-Fade | _nicolai_: Ok, you should be able to login now. | 14:07 |
| lcuk | gabriel9, I know all about widgets and what they are | 14:07 |
| _nicolai_ | X-Fade, it works, thank you. | 14:09 |
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| gabriel9 | lcuk, is there widgets for meego? | 14:11 |
| gabriel9 | like examples | 14:12 |
| gabriel9 | this weekend i will try to code something i give you links so you which have device can test is if you are willing | 14:12 |
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| coly | hi, does anyone here successfully installed meego 1.2 on N900 ? | 14:20 |
| coly | I try to follow the doc on wiki, it seems the usb interface is not probed correctly | 14:20 |
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| gabriel9 | ok, do anyone of you know is there any plans to nokia publish n9 with keyboard? | 14:35 |
| Wirta | you mean the n950? | 14:35 |
| gabriel9 | i just broke my old phone, and display is all broken, i can use it little more and wait | 14:36 |
| gabriel9 | n950 is developer device | 14:36 |
| Wirta | indeed it is | 14:36 |
| gabriel9 | so i can't get it | 14:36 |
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| gabriel9 | :/ | 14:36 |
| gabriel9 | i tried | 14:36 |
| Wirta | but it wasnt at first | 14:36 |
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| gabriel9 | yea i know :( | 14:37 |
| gabriel9 | politics and economy are evil | 14:37 |
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| gabriel9 | will be there more devices for free form nokia developers program? | 14:38 |
| Wirta | I wouldn't hold my breath but you never know | 14:38 |
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| psycho_oreos | only time will tell imo :) | 14:39 |
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| gabriel9 | oh, well i will try to develop something on emulator | 14:40 |
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| psycho_oreos | you said your screen is all broken, but couldn't you in theory get away by hooking your old phone up with TV screen? | 14:42 |
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| psycho_oreos | plus I'm sure there's spare parts floating around for most phones on the internet. I'm sure they could be of help if you're handy with d-i-y job | 14:43 |
| gabriel9 | it's nokia 5100 | 14:43 |
| gabriel9 | 7 years old :( | 14:44 |
| psycho_oreos | ahh | 14:44 |
| gabriel9 | so many memories :( | 14:44 |
| coly | Wirta: no, I mean N900 | 14:44 |
| coly | the one shipped with meamo5 when I bought it | 14:44 |
| Wirta | oh sry, my reply was ment for gabriel9 | 14:45 |
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| coly | oops, sorry | 14:45 |
| Wirta | np :) | 14:45 |
| psycho_oreos | *counts 7 years back using his head* 2004? hmm I guess they probably wouldn't supply nokia A/V cables. I was sort of assuming you had a more recent phone.. maybe something even like Nokia Nseries. afaik N95-1 does provide A/V cables as well as N900 | 14:46 |
| gabriel9 | 5100 is great, indestructible phone | 14:47 |
| gabriel9 | but old | 14:47 |
| psycho_oreos | http://www.lcd-screen-repair.net/Nokia/Nokia-5100-LCD-screen.html <-- this? | 14:48 |
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| psycho_oreos | not that I recommend/condone but I guess there are a few online shops that still stocks them. | 14:49 |
| gabriel9 | do they ship to bosnia and hercegovina? | 14:50 |
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| gabriel9 | it will travel for 10-15 days min | 14:51 |
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| psycho_oreos | `Worldwide Ship, Some products will be shipped out from HongKong warehouse. Ship from USA by USPS, and only to BILL ADDRESS.' | 14:51 |
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| gabriel9 | i will see about that | 14:56 |
| gabriel9 | i still need to check did anything else broke on the phone | 14:57 |
| psycho_oreos | again, I insist that I don't recommend/condone :) make sure you do thorough research where possible on the shop's background prior to purchasing | 14:57 |
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| * CosmoHill is watching kick-ass | 15:00 | |
| psycho_oreos | heh that movie | 15:00 |
| CosmoHill | okay, daddy shot his kid | 15:01 |
| gabriel9 | psycho_oreos thanks | 15:01 |
| psycho_oreos | kid doesn't die, but weird twist | 15:01 |
| psycho_oreos | gabriel9, nw | 15:01 |
| gabriel9 | well i need to buy some developer phone | 15:01 |
| * CosmoHill avoided the film cos he thought it was poopoo | 15:01 | |
| gabriel9 | i work with programming every day | 15:02 |
| gabriel9 | and my colleagues have space phones | 15:02 |
| psycho_oreos | I love N900, I couldn't get N950 but regardless N900 can still offer plenty of fun. I actually have two N900 | 15:02 |
| gabriel9 | and i have some plans for some aps for phones | 15:02 |
| psycho_oreos | plus for meego work, N900 is like a bridge across :) | 15:03 |
| gabriel9 | i was thinking about n900 but i wait for n9/50 | 15:03 |
| psycho_oreos | N9 isn't going to be sold officially in certain countries. N950 still remains to be a devel device (very sad) | 15:04 |
| gabriel9 | they say it will go out next month | 15:04 |
| gabriel9 | n9 | 15:04 |
| psycho_oreos | yup, I've confirmed that with my local phone retailer when I went to pay my bill for contracted N900 :) | 15:06 |
| CosmoHill | costume? check! stab proof vest? er no. the green cross code? nope | 15:06 |
| gabriel9 | nokia be smart and give us n9 with keyboard | 15:07 |
| psycho_oreos | I sorta wished I never bothered watching that movie but *shrugs* I guess its too late to change the past | 15:07 |
| gabriel9 | dont push me to go and buy htc :) | 15:07 |
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| psycho_oreos | well if N9 is going to be the last official Nokia Meego work, there aren't that many other alternative platforms to choose from :) The next closest mostly open relative would be OpenMoko followed by the distant Android, all running linux kernel. | 15:10 |
| psycho_oreos | I personally wouldn't buy Sea Ray or whatever other phone Nokia decides to roll out with Mango. If N9 is going to be the last device with Nokia Meego work, so be it.. I'll move to some other brand/platform | 15:11 |
| gabriel9 | psycho_oreos: i must go and work | 15:11 |
| gabriel9 | my boss is gone kill me | 15:11 |
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| gabriel9 | see ya on weekend :) | 15:11 |
| psycho_oreos | gabriel9, haha been there gone through that (almost got killed) | 15:11 |
| psycho_oreos | have fun! ;) | 15:11 |
| gabriel9 | you too | 15:11 |
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| psycho_oreos | I finished work long ago, luckily enough | 15:12 |
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| lcuk | so given that meego will be used on various devices and we have availability for numerous stores | 15:24 |
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| lcuk | are there a set of app guidelines which span the various options | 15:25 |
| lcuk | something we can steer eople towards to generate apps which should be compatible with the options | 15:25 |
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| CosmoHill | psycho_oreos: I found the twist | 15:26 |
| lcuk | I have had a look around the wiki and not found anytihng | 15:26 |
| * lcuk ponders doing an indepth review of the store policies and guidelines and making proper set of documentation for store submissions | 15:27 | |
| berndhs | lcuk: that's one of the things compliance is supposed to help with | 15:27 |
| * lcuk ponders | 15:27 | |
| lcuk | berndhs, yes | 15:27 |
| lcuk | but putting it in terms of where a developer should be working towards | 15:27 |
| lcuk | compliance for meego is not the same as the requirements per store | 15:28 |
| lcuk | though it is close | 15:28 |
| berndhs | let's ignore the N9 case for purposes of this discussion :) | 15:28 |
| lcuk | we should not | 15:28 |
| veskuh | lcuk: No, meego is just about technical compliance. Different apps in different ux's do not make sense in many cases | 15:29 |
| berndhs | although, if you can make apps that work on N9-harmattan and tablet-meego, that would be a good start I think | 15:29 |
| lcuk | veskuh, that is my point | 15:29 |
| veskuh | lcuk: as UX is different cross platform is not possible | 15:29 |
| lcuk | people coming to meego to make apps | 15:29 |
| lcuk | veskuh, not technically true | 15:29 |
| lcuk | i have same apps running on handset as on my netbook/slate | 15:29 |
| veskuh | lcuk: well, ok. apps work and if concepts are close then ok | 15:30 |
| veskuh | lcuk: but nothing in meego says that your ux has to be this or that | 15:30 |
| lcuk | the only reason the majority are not like that is because of incompatibilities | 15:30 |
| lcuk | for sure | 15:30 |
| lcuk | that is why having some guidelines and writeups on the wiki along with some real apps put into the stores following them | 15:30 |
| berndhs | and because people focus on the specifics of a UX and exploit all features | 15:30 |
| veskuh | something like best practices may work here, but still if radical devices come out, it is likely that there is UX changes there | 15:32 |
| berndhs | what's radical about, say, the N9 UX ? | 15:33 |
| veskuh | No buttons | 15:33 |
| berndhs | you can make buttons in your app if you want | 15:34 |
| veskuh | Well, that's the point. If you add close button, then it doesnt feel like harmattan app anymore. | 15:34 |
| veskuh | But for meego handset you would expect to have the button | 15:34 |
| berndhs | why would you care if it doesn't look like Nokia made it ? | 15:34 |
| veskuh | I like consitency in my device, but I'm no UX expert | 15:35 |
| berndhs | suppose you are writing the SlicedBread app, better than any bread app before | 15:35 |
| berndhs | ok then how do you make choices within an app ? | 15:36 |
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| veskuh | berndhs: I dont think there is right or wrong here. Sometimes distinctive UX is good, sometimes more platform look | 15:38 |
| berndhs | sure | 15:38 |
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| berndhs | if the app has a distinct identity, you want to see that | 15:38 |
| veskuh | true | 15:38 |
| veskuh | like games | 15:38 |
| berndhs | if the app does a system-type function you would want it to look like the system its on | 15:39 |
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| veskuh | berndhs: but back to meego, I do not think compliance says almost anything about what kind of ux concept the devices have. | 15:40 |
| veskuh | therefore it is hard to make any guidelines about what would be good programming for cross platform meego apps | 15:41 |
| berndhs | i dont think so either, i think it just tries to make sure apps install and run | 15:41 |
| veskuh | we can make guidelines based on current situation | 15:41 |
| veskuh | yep, well that is the thing I says as "techincal compliance" | 15:41 |
| lcuk | veskuh, does angry birds follow the guidelines of the device? | 15:41 |
| lcuk | or has that trailblazed its own | 15:42 |
| lcuk | which span multiple devices and uxes? | 15:42 |
| lcuk | #i see angry birds on loads of different things | 15:42 |
| the-boss | lcuk: Error: "i" is not a valid command. | 15:42 |
| lcuk | #we then :P | 15:42 |
| the-boss | lcuk: Error: "we" is not a valid command. | 15:42 |
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| veskuh | lcuk: well, like most games it has its own style of ui | 15:43 |
| veskuh | lcuk: on every platform | 15:43 |
| lcuk | do people complain there that it does not use the system defined ux? | 15:44 |
| berndhs | you could make the point that the app should be distinctive, so you can see what app is running | 15:44 |
| lcuk | btw, i *adore* the harmattan ux | 15:45 |
| lcuk | it is very swish | 15:45 |
| berndhs | phone dialer should look different from gps navigator | 15:45 |
| lcuk | and having collection of apps using it is a great thing | 15:45 |
| lcuk | I am just looking at the whole thing | 15:45 |
| lcuk | berndhs, calculator + dialer are things often confused at a glance | 15:45 |
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| berndhs | right, so it would make sense to make then visually more different | 15:46 |
| lcuk | they do | 15:46 |
| lcuk | but still big screen full of numberpad | 15:46 |
| berndhs | so we need a better look for a dialer, or for a calculator :) | 15:47 |
| lcuk | where on my harmattan device it says "developer edition | 15:47 |
| lcuk | i might quite like a watermark of phone | 15:47 |
| lcuk | so that the "at a glance" lets you see the dialer | 15:47 |
| berndhs | right, that's one good way | 15:47 |
| berndhs | maybe make the watermark fade a bit once you started dialing | 15:48 |
| lcuk | infact, like that einstein monroe picture | 15:48 |
| lcuk | from afar you can tell its a phone | 15:48 |
| lcuk | or calc | 15:48 |
| lcuk | from close its the actual thing | 15:48 |
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| lcuk | http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-px27pddStB0/TaVh8NhmRCI/AAAAAAAAAKg/gHJz7D8nQ8o/s1600/illusion-einstein-monroe.jpg | 15:49 |
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| lcuk | vgrade just mentioned that nvidia want a meego image | 15:50 |
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| berndhs | I'll make one for them | 15:50 |
| peterbjornx | what for :O | 15:52 |
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| berndhs | I'll make it for the money they send me :) | 15:52 |
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| CosmoHill | "it looks even cooler than it did in the picture" "that's cos in the picture it didn't have gaterling guns" | 16:03 |
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| vignatti | hi all | 16:07 |
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| vignatti | root@meego-netbook-sdk:~/Settings/MeeGo# ls | 16:08 |
| vignatti | favorite-applications.conf meego-ux-components.conf | 16:08 |
| vignatti | which package provides these files? | 16:08 |
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| lcuk | vignatti, hm not sure | 16:10 |
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| Venemo | could anyone tell me how close are the qt-components for MeeGo and the tablet UX components? | 16:14 |
| Venemo | eg. if I write an app with qt-components for MeeGo, will it run and look good in Intel's tablex UX? | 16:14 |
| vignatti | lcuk: quite funny, I have it here in one chroot environment but not in the other | 16:15 |
| vignatti | but we need those, it seems | 16:15 |
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| veskuh | Venemo: That's a good question. I do not think many people have tried that. I'm pretty sure there are incomptibilites so you will need to do porting | 16:17 |
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| veskuh | Venemo: Also meego-ux assumes that apps are just qml+js and in QtComponets we assume that you compile them as real binaries | 16:17 |
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| veskuh | Venemo: meego-ux seems to be work on-going so compatibility might get better | 16:18 |
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| veskuh | but as both share common roots, there should be similiar concepts and componets at least | 16:18 |
| Venemo | mhm... | 16:19 |
| Venemo | can't I just install qt-components onto a system running meego-ux | 16:19 |
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| veskuh | Technically yes. Our next MeeGo CE release will have both. | 16:20 |
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| Venemo | now that sounds nice | 16:20 |
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| lcuk | veskuh, technically isn't that similar to installing gtk and qt on same device? | 16:32 |
| veskuh | pretty much yes. | 16:32 |
| lcuk | since it is qml, we should be trying to find the common elements and making a middle ground set | 16:33 |
| lcuk | but that will just end up leading to 3 sets of qml things | 16:33 |
| lcuk | the meego-ce will be better :) | 16:34 |
| lcuk | i wonder if stskeeps has done an open source percentage report for harmattan | 16:34 |
| lcuk | veskuh, does having the qml/js embedded make a difference? | 16:38 |
| lcuk | can the app actually tell whether it is compiled or included? | 16:38 |
| veskuh | Well, it is mostly just about wrapping the app | 16:38 |
| veskuh | so qml/js app you would start with qmlviewer or on meego-ux meego-ux-runner | 16:39 |
| veskuh | and embedded you would start the binary | 16:39 |
| veskuh | for the qml/js code itself it does not matter | 16:39 |
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| veskuh | but the runtime exposes certain properties in meego-ux | 16:39 |
| lcuk | that is good | 16:40 |
| veskuh | so you cannot run qml/js designed for meego-ux without the runner | 16:40 |
| veskuh | at least as far as I know | 16:40 |
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| lcuk | or without another wrapper? | 16:40 |
| veskuh | yes, there may be a lib that you can use as c++ developer that would do the same for your app | 16:41 |
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| lcuk | veskuh, is there a complete api/class tree in the documentation for ux components | 16:42 |
| lcuk | something that can be compared between the two versions and a plan of action made | 16:43 |
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| Venemo | I wanna ask a question: have any of you guys participated in Intel's ExoPC device program at meego.com? | 16:43 |
| * CosmoHill looks at Oracle jobs | 16:43 | |
| brik | we went to their session in SF | 16:46 |
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| veskuh | lcuk: I do not know where the docs for meego-ux are, but I'm pretty sure they are availabl. | 16:46 |
| veskuh | lcuk: for qt-components: http://library.developer.nokia.com/index.jsp?topic=/MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan_API/html/qt-components/qt-components.html | 16:46 |
| berndhs | Venemo: I did | 16:46 |
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| lcuk | brik, whos session? | 16:47 |
| lcuk | veskuh, thanks | 16:47 |
| veskuh | lcuk: meego-ux at least some version here: http://apidocs.meego.com/git-tip/meego-ux-components/ | 16:48 |
| Venemo | berndhs, can you share with me your experience? | 16:48 |
| berndhs | haven't heard back from anyone | 16:48 |
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| Venemo | berndhs, so they haven't sent you an ExoPC? | 16:50 |
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| brik | lcuk: intel's appup/exopc session | 16:50 |
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| berndhs | no they haven't even replied whether they will do it or not | 16:51 |
| berndhs | maybe they will, i dont know | 16:51 |
| Venemo | berndhs, how long ago did you apply? | 16:51 |
| berndhs | on he website ? don't know maybe 6 weeks or so | 16:52 |
| Venemo | meh! | 16:52 |
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| lcuk | brik, cool | 16:55 |
| Venemo | so, if I apply for an ExoPC, is there any chance that I will actually get one? | 16:55 |
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| berndhs | how would I know ? | 16:56 |
| berndhs | :) | 16:56 |
| Venemo | dunno, but other 440 people are reading this channel. maybe someone knows | 16:56 |
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| gabrbedd | Venemo: I think the people who would know are in Portland... and probably just waking up and brushing your teeth. | 17:12 |
| gabrbedd | s/your teeth/their teeth/ | 17:12 |
| infobot | gabrbedd meant: Venemo: I think the people who would know are in Portland... and probably just waking up and brushing their teeth. | 17:12 |
| Venemo | gabrbedd, Portland? | 17:12 |
| gabrbedd | (yeah... that would be akward) | 17:12 |
| gabrbedd | Porland, Oregon USA... home of the Intel Open Source Development Labs | 17:13 |
| gabrbedd | Anyway, that's where Dawn Foster is based... and she's one of the heads of the comm. device program. | 17:13 |
| gabrbedd | Texrat would have an idea also... but he's not usually on IRC. | 17:13 |
| gabrbedd | Venemo: but one thing's for sure... if you don't apply then your chances are nil. | 17:14 |
| Venemo | gabrbedd, yeah, Isee | 17:15 |
| Venemo | if I applied and succeeded for the N950 program, do I still have chance at the ExoPC? | 17:15 |
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| Venemo | just asking because now I will have made a wealth of apps in QML, so I want them to not go into waste and also port them to MeeGo's tablet UX | 17:18 |
| Venemo | and it would be convenient to have a tablet to do this | 17:19 |
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| gabrbedd | Venemo: My guess is that you probably do... since the 2 programs have different sponsors. | 17:24 |
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| berndhs | also, the 150 expPCs have been available for a few months, so there doesnt seem to be a shortage | 17:25 |
| lcuk | what meego build do the exopcs come wit by default? | 17:26 |
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| shinkamui | anyone using meego 1.2 can you confirm that a zypper update operation is supposed to take a long ass time? | 17:30 |
| shinkamui | I've tried 2 different wireless networks, and at this point I can' t determine if its a problem with my wifi drivers, or just the site is under heavy load | 17:31 |
| shinkamui | ping responses are under 100ms, and browsing websites seem fine | 17:31 |
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| gabrbedd | lcuk: At meegoconf they came with the 1.2-pre-alpha Tablet UX. I doubt if they've reinstalled any other version. And they might come blank. | 17:33 |
| berndhs | maybe they come with windows :) | 17:34 |
| lcuk | gabrbedd, good | 17:34 |
| lcuk | I should apply for one along with other stuff | 17:35 |
| lcuk | but I prefer devices with a keyboard but could handle without | 17:35 |
| lcuk | do we have any htc people around? | 17:36 |
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| gabrbedd | berndhs: actually, they might. I know they come with the windows key/sticker. | 17:40 |
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| lcuk | that is unfortunate | 17:41 |
| lcuk | devices for a purpose should remain with the os | 17:42 |
| lcuk | to help stabilise it | 17:42 |
| * lcuk uses meego netbook oon ideapad | 17:42 | |
| lcuk | because I got it from meego conf | 17:42 |
| lcuk | question: has anybody done any kind of COMET code, long polling stuff? | 17:42 |
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| gabrbedd | lcuk: IIRC, the Ideapads at Dublin /did/ come with Windows on them. | 17:43 |
| lcuk | gabrbedd, first boot occured with a meego usb key inserted | 17:43 |
| lcuk | many people never saw any Windows at all | 17:43 |
| gabrbedd | lcuk: And unless things have changed... that's always been part of microsoft's unfair advantage... | 17:43 |
| lcuk | microsoft do not have unfair advantage really | 17:44 |
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| lcuk | they got into position through hard work | 17:44 |
| gabrbedd | lcuk: If you want to ship PC's with windows on them... then you have to pay a royalty on /all/ your PC sales... whether you ship it with windows or not. | 17:44 |
| gabrbedd | lcuk: I call that unfair. | 17:44 |
| lcuk | gabrbedd, I do not object to microsoft at all | 17:44 |
| lcuk | in their niche they do well :P | 17:45 |
| CosmoHill | lcuk: consoles for mac users? | 17:45 |
| gabrbedd | lcuk: I'm not spurning windows here. Starting with XP, I think it's a pretty stable OS. I just think that the OEM agreement is an unfair practice. | 17:46 |
| lcuk | nyancat | 17:46 |
| lcuk | gabrbedd, understood | 17:46 |
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| lcuk | berndhs, where is the page for the exopc device program? | 18:03 |
| lcuk | I think I need to get one, especially if it has tablet ux on it | 18:03 |
| * lcuk will be creating a new tab | 18:03 | |
| berndhs | its hard to find, let me look | 18:04 |
| shinkamui | how can I manually make Maliit appear in the netbook interface | 18:04 |
| shinkamui | I installed the inputmethodkeyboard and inputmethodbridges | 18:04 |
| shinkamui | made the change in meego-im-uiserver.desktop | 18:04 |
| shinkamui | and failsauce | 18:04 |
| lcuk | http://wiki.meego.com/Devices/Ideapad#On-screen_keyboard | 18:05 |
| shinkamui | no keyboard, the hotkey to bring it up also doesn't work | 18:05 |
| lcuk | shinkamui, that page would potentially help you | 18:05 |
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| berndhs | lcuk: https://meego.com/community/device-program | 18:06 |
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| shinkamui | thanks lcuk | 18:07 |
| shinkamui | thats exactly what I needed I think | 18:07 |
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| Venemo | DawnFoster, ping | 18:11 |
| lcuk | great berndhs thanks | 18:11 |
| lcuk | I have applied | 18:11 |
| lcuk | Venemo, you should too | 18:11 |
| DawnFoster | Venemo: hey | 18:11 |
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| lcuk | DawnFoster, I have something awesome on my meego devices o_O | 18:11 |
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| DawnFoster | lcuk: cool! | 18:12 |
| lcuk | but I cannot express in text words what it is :P | 18:12 |
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| lcuk | and it spans entire meego and uses the nokia and intel devices :) | 18:12 |
| Venemo | DawnFoster, they told me that I can talk to you about Intel's ExoPC device program at meego.com | 18:12 |
| DawnFoster | Venemo: depends on what you need - can you be more specific? | 18:13 |
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| Venemo | DawnFoster, well, I didn't find information about what the requirements of the program are | 18:13 |
| Venemo | DawnFoster, and berndhs said he applied weeks ago and didn't get any answer | 18:14 |
| iekku | lcuk, please make a video of it? | 18:14 |
| iekku | :) | 18:14 |
| DawnFoster | Venemo: all of that is on the web page & wiki. We've closed applications and should notify people next week about who has / has not been accepted | 18:14 |
| DawnFoster | Randy (aka texrat) is driving that process | 18:14 |
| Venemo | DawnFoster, ah, it is closed :( | 18:14 |
| lcuk | iekku, :) I will | 18:14 |
| Venemo | seems that I've just missed it then. | 18:14 |
| DawnFoster | it was open from May until now | 18:15 |
| Venemo | "now"? | 18:15 |
| * lcuk actually made something work that I have been trying for long time | 18:15 | |
| lcuk | :) | 18:15 |
| DawnFoster | just closed down this week | 18:15 |
| iekku | lcuk, please, send me a link, get me interested | 18:15 |
| Venemo | oh. | 18:15 |
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| * lcuk feels proud of himself right now and goes for celebratory smoke | 18:15 | |
| Venemo | DawnFoster, is there a possiblity that there is going to be another program involving tablets? :) | 18:15 |
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| Venemo | DawnFoster, also https://meego.com/community/device-program/devices/exopc-tablet says "Active", and the "Apply for this device" link doesn't say that it's closed | 18:16 |
| Venemo | DawnFoster, you might want to fix that. | 18:16 |
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| DawnFoster | Venemo: we'll look into it - not sure about future programs | 18:16 |
| Venemo | DawnFoster, it's a shame that I didn't apply last week, but the program wasn't brought into my attention until recently | 18:17 |
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| TSCHAKeee | when will results be announced for the eXoPC device program? | 18:20 |
| lcuk | DawnFoster, I just applied for that too | 18:20 |
| lcuk | so if it is not available phoey, why wasn't it advertised! | 18:20 |
| Venemo | TSCHAKeee, Dawn said next week | 18:20 |
| TSCHAKeee | cool ok | 18:20 |
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| Venemo | DawnFoster, what'll happen if I just fill out the application form right now? will I get rejected? :P | 18:24 |
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| * CosmoHill gets out his electric trains and plays with them (once he gets it working) | 18:58 | |
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| berndhs | you want each train car controlled by a separate CPU | 18:59 |
| shinkamui | im getting stuck here with this message: com.meego.core.minputmethodstatusindicator not provided by any .service file whenever I try and launch meego-im-uiserver -target slate | 18:59 |
| shinkamui | no idea what Im missing, any hints on what I should be looking at | 19:00 |
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| CosmoHill | berndhs: later, for now I want it to do a lap without me poking it or derailing | 19:05 |
| gabrbedd | shinkamui: With the 1.2 release, inputmethodbridges was broken. | 19:06 |
| shinkamui | aah, fantastic | 19:06 |
| gabrbedd | shinkamui: I think it's fixed in the latest builds and/or update. | 19:06 |
| shinkamui | gabredd so I should enable testing repos for a fix? | 19:06 |
| gabrbedd | shikamaru: At least, I think that's what the bug report e-mails have said. | 19:07 |
| shinkamui | gabrbedd even | 19:07 |
| shinkamui | :-D sorry | 19:07 |
| gabrbedd | shikamaru: If an update has been released, use that. It should fix it. (I haven't been tracking the update releases closely) | 19:07 |
| gabrbedd | shikamaru: Otherwise, it's up to you. Adding a snapshot repo will upgrade a bunch of stuff on your system... possibly breaking some things. | 19:08 |
| gabrbedd | shikamaru: so, it depends on how adventurous you are feeling. :-) | 19:08 |
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| RzR | captainigloo: hi, any progress on enna ? | 19:25 |
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| RzR | captainigloo: I removed some packages that did not build, fell free to upload them again | 19:25 |
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| lcuk | CosmoHill, what kind of trains have you got? | 19:40 |
| * lcuk used to have a trainset :) | 19:40 | |
| gabrbedd | lcuk: CosmoHill is pretty young... so it's probably Thomas the Tank Engine. | 19:41 |
| lcuk | haha | 19:41 |
| lcuk | no shortage of thomas trains around here | 19:41 |
| gabrbedd | here, too | 19:41 |
| gabrbedd | lcuk: do you guys get the TV show in the UK? (Used to be narrated by George Carlin) | 19:42 |
| lcuk | gabrbedd, sure | 19:43 |
| lcuk | and on youtube | 19:43 |
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| * gabrbedd misses George.... | 19:44 | |
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| CosmoHill | lcuk: class 08 shunter, class 86, two HSTs and a virgin class 47 | 19:48 |
| CosmoHill | *09 shunter | 19:49 |
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| lcuk | CosmoHill, from toy shop or do you visit specialist train place? | 20:01 |
| CosmoHill | they've all been presents that I was given as a kid | 20:03 |
| CosmoHill | I saw that they do trains in hobby craft | 20:04 |
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| topro | is there a comprehensive qt-components developer documentation available online? | 20:28 |
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| thiago | QTCOMPONENTS-72 in bugreports.qt.nokia.com | 20:33 |
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| shinkamui | gabrbedd, this is entirely a test platform so pretty adventurous | 20:36 |
| shinkamui | :) | 20:36 |
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| lcuk | http://t.co/fMrhSOZ | 20:38 |
| lcuk | qgil just posted a nice article on twitter | 20:38 |
| thiago | a 140-letter article? | 20:38 |
| iekku | :d | 20:38 |
| lcuk | lol thiago | 20:40 |
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| berndhs | I think he's being optimistic, people will find novel ways of writing bad code :) | 20:49 |
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| npm | re: qgil article... i prefer my way of combining qml and web: http://code.google.com/p/qtzibit/ | 20:57 |
| npm | http://nielsmayer.com/meego/qml/qtzibit_0_1_0_armel.deb | 20:58 |
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| npm | here's the bugzhibit app inside qtzibit browsing bugs.meego.com http://nielsmayer.com/meego/qml/bugzhibit-timeline.png | 21:00 |
| shinkamui | well, I added Testing/testing | 21:02 |
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| shinkamui | and the upgrade is running smoothly | 21:02 |
| shinkamui | either Ill reboot into a working keyboard, or a black screen :0 | 21:02 |
| gabrbedd | shinkamui: if the upgrade crashes... just reboot and continue upgrading. | 21:02 |
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| * gabrbedd has been there, done that. | 21:02 | |
| shinkamui | lols | 21:02 |
| shinkamui | did you upgrade with zypper or the ui | 21:02 |
| gabrbedd | ...and it's not big deal. | 21:02 |
| shinkamui | not that I would expect there to be a difference | 21:02 |
| gabrbedd | zypper. | 21:02 |
| shinkamui | ok, thats what Im doing | 21:02 |
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| CosmoHill | lcuk: cool, I can convert my trains to DCC with some soldering | 21:20 |
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| lcuk | I tried building liqbook on the obs | 23:52 |
| lcuk | and getting errors | 23:52 |
| * lcuk does not understand computers sometimes | 23:53 | |
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