IRC log of #meego for Wednesday, 2011-07-20

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sosbornAnyone know why I'm getting: "Running non-meego graphics system enabled  MeeGo touch, forcing native graphicssystem"01:06
sosbornI just created a simple meego touch app to test out01:06
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vgradeanyone having OBS issues with packages not publishing to repo01:10
lcukyes vgrade01:11
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berndhsvgrade: arfoll was complaining about it bit more than an hour ago01:13
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vgradeberndhs, I know the guys have been working hard on the update during the weekend and into Monday.  I'll ping them tomorrow02:09
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ReffyHmmmm02:58
ReffyNewest QtSDK, I can't seem to find QWebView (c++)02:58
ReffyStrange02:58
ReffyHarmattan SDK***02:58
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thiagoReffy: in your .pro file, do you have QT += webkit ?03:09
specialthiago: you're up late03:10
ReffyAhhhh03:10
thiagospecial: no, I'm not03:10
ReffyThat wouldn't be the first time I forgot03:10
ReffyI'll never learn03:10
ReffyThanks03:10
specialover in the US, then?03:10
thiagospecial: no03:11
thiagoBrazil03:11
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specialah, interesting. Just business?03:12
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bemascI don't know if this is a good channel for N950-related topics ... but is Nokia's login system (apparently required for "maps" and "drive") down for everyone or just for me?04:23
bemascand while I'm at it, has anyone else noticed that the onscreen keyboard is sometimes invisible in the Terminal App ?04:24
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marcosx86I need some help dualbooting meego and maemo04:31
marcosx86Installed U-Boot, it works, boots maemo04:31
marcosx86but when I go "run mmcboot"04:31
marcosx86it doesnt boot it04:32
marcosx86how can I setup the meego kernel to uboot?04:32
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marcosx86_how can I setup the meego kernel to uboot?04:35
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SpeedEvilbemasc: #harmattan04:53
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bemascSpeedEvil: thanks.  looks like a known bug.05:00
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protttHey!05:20
protttI have Samsung NF21005:21
protttand ofcourse the backlight problem05:21
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protttand also, when i hit fn + uparrow, it will disable my keyboard05:21
protttor maybe both up and down05:21
protttany solutions ? to get my backlight to work05:22
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Joosepanyone active here?06:00
Joosepif I click on for example Pictures folder, meego just does´nt do anything06:01
Joosepwhat should I do ?06:01
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Joosepanyone ?06:07
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Jossstill noone here?06:32
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Termanamorning08:36
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djszapi_Does the page "https://build.pub.meego.com/" work for anybody ? It loads empty page by me.09:09
Ronksunope, doesn't work09:10
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djszapi_lbt X-Fade maintainance period ?09:11
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iekkumorning09:21
dm8tbrmoarning09:21
vgrademorning09:21
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Myrttimoin09:26
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arfollanother morning without c.obs? :-(09:29
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vgradearfoll,looks like its really dead.  Stopped responding at all late last night.09:31
vgradelbt, X-Fade, any update on this. Do you guys need a hand?09:32
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arfolluhm you must have been up late because it was working at midnight ;-)09:32
* arfoll thinks they probably need sleep with all the recent trouble09:32
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vgradearfol, I was09:36
vgradearfoll, I was up late09:36
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Alison_ChaikenHey Intel guys, how long we can expect that a particular Atom variant might be available, in general?  Are there some that have long-term support and not others?    I see Intel has done some second-sourcing of Atom, but not a lot?10:31
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JaffaMorning, all11:28
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Venemo_N950_webcdjszapi, ping11:31
djszapipong11:31
Venemo_N950_webcdjszapi, could you please look at something for me?11:32
djszapisure thing :)11:32
MSM|Cat:)11:33
Venemo_N950_webcunfortunately I can't paste to this damn web interface...11:33
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Venemo_N950_webchowever I'd appreciate if you could look at QTCREATORBU-545911:33
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Venemo_N950_webcdjszapi, they are in desperate need of your expertise with Aegis11:34
Venemo_N950_webcdjszapi, it's about the bug I talked to you earlier11:35
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lcukmorning \o13:09
djszapihi lcuk sup13:10
lcukhi djszapi, checking bug movements and mail etc13:10
lcukhow is your kdelibs build doing?13:10
djszapiis not going :)13:11
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lcukwell last I saw yesterday people were having issues13:12
djszapikdelibs is a monstrum :D13:13
djszapi* monster, I mean huge.13:13
lcukvgrade and arfoll had issues with publishing, I gather lbt and X-Fade and the team are working on it (hopefully cured?)13:14
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bkalingahi all, by mistake i deleted /usr/lib/libQtServiceFramework.so.1 from my tablet (qemu )13:23
bkalingai know that is part of libqtserviceframework1-1.2.0~beta0+git2726-9.35.i58613:23
bkalingabut dont know the repo where i can find that13:24
bkalingacan someone please help me13:24
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lcukbkalinga, can you just "zypper in --force [package]" to reinstall it?13:25
lcukout of note: aegis would have prevented this action I believe13:26
bkalinga lcuk: i think you are aware that after MeeGo1.2 release the repo url changed13:26
vgradelcuk, I've had some packages published but not all13:26
lcukbkalinga, ok which ux are you on?13:27
bkalingaso zypper in --force [package] is looking at non existing url13:27
lcukvgrade, ahh13:27
bkalingatablet13:27
bkalingalcuk: at  http://download.meego.com/snapshots/1.2.0.90.5.20110621.84/repos/oss/ia32/packages/i586/ i can find libqtserviceframework1-1.2.0~beta0+git2726-16.6.i586.rpm13:28
bkalingabut there is a slight mismatch13:28
bkalingaso i am afraid to take that13:28
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lcukbkalinga, seems to be slightly newer than anything?  since you already chomped your system backup required data and give it a try13:31
bkalingais it possible to find out  the repo address from by looking at the name *git2726-9.35.i58613:31
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lcuknot that I know of13:31
bkalingalcuk: is it really hard to find out in which repo that particular .rpm exist13:31
bkalingalet me see in old repo..13:32
Stskeepsandre__: 10 bucks on bugs.otcshare.org13:32
Stskeepsandre__: same mess as with MTF and NB# bugs :)13:33
lcukwhats that Stskeeps13:33
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Stskeepsah, bugzilla.* i mean13:34
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Stskeepslcuk: intel costumer bugzilla, i think13:35
bkalingaanyone know where http://download.meego.com/snapshots/1.2.0.90.0.20110517.1/repos/oss/source is moved ?13:35
leinircostumer bugzilla? Their costumes not holding together, or don't look like the things they're supposed to be a costume of? ;)13:35
Stskeepscustomer, yeah13:35
andre__Stskeeps, ah, likely. hadn't heard of that one before13:36
Stskeepsi'm fighting with myself if something like that is evil or not :)13:36
w00tI'd quite like a costume bugzilla13:36
Stskeepsbecause it's a lot better than secrets in bugs.meego.com but also a good question if every single bug should be put into bugs.meego.com too13:37
Stskeeps:P13:37
andre__bkalinga: to the trashbin of history I guess. :) why host a snapshort from more than two months ago?13:38
Stskeepsbkalinga: archive.meego.com prolly13:38
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andre__yeah, downstream-upstream relation for bugtracking is something to discuss for days... :-/13:38
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bkalinga andre__: for a public release it has to there for  years13:39
andre__for real releases I agree. for snapshots... don't know.13:39
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Stskeepsbkalinga: technically only 1.x releases13:39
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mcfriskbkalinga: http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/1.2.0.90/1.2.0.90.0.20110517.1/13:40
bkalinga Stskeeps:yes i am talking about MeeGo1.2 release13:40
Stskeeps1.2.0.90 is a snapshot :)13:40
bkalingaafter release, within a month that repo got removed13:40
Stskeeps1.2/ repo still exists13:41
bkalingait does not matter whether its a snapshot or trunk it it part of my /etc/zypp/repos.d/1.2-oss.repo  then i take that as a stable link to be available for years13:41
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Stskeepslong story short, meego.com mirrors don't want several terabytes of releases13:42
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Stskeepsso things get moved to archive and only major releases are guaranteed to stay13:43
Stskeepsthat's 1.0, 1.1, 1.213:43
Stskeepssnapshots are just development snapshots13:43
bkalingaStskeeps:  i am talking about 1.2 which is a major release13:43
Stskeepswhat URL did you say got removed?13:43
w00t1.2.0.90.0.20110517.113:44
Stskeepsi'll hear it from bkalinga :P13:44
w00tok ;)13:44
bkalingaif u install 1.2 your /etc/zypp/repos.d/1.2-oss.repo will have baseurl=http://download.meego.com/snapshots/1.2.0.90.0.20110517.1/repos/oss/source13:44
bkalingabut it no more available13:44
w00tthere is a valid point here in that it is really hard to install an image and track "1.2 trunk"13:45
Stskeepshttp://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/releases/1.2.0/images/meego-netbook-ia32/meego-netbook-ia32-1.2.0.ks is 1.213:45
w00tthough I don't think that is actually a desired usecase for most of them13:45
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bkalingaok leave it, thanks  mcfrisk: i got it, that is the correct place where it got moved13:46
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lcuktimoph, do the apps in your :home build for harmattan? If so, add your name on here http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Office/Community_device_program/Nokia/Development_repos13:50
bkalingaerror while installing libqtserviceframework1-1.2.0~beta0+git2726-9.35.i586 http://pastebin.com/7YSvYzz013:50
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timophlcuk: nothing that work yet :)13:52
timophI'll list myself there after I get something to work13:52
timoph(and worth using)13:52
lcuk\o13:53
* lcuk progressing nicely with calendar http://liqbase.net/20110610_002.jpg13:53
timophnice13:54
Myrtti*sigh*13:55
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lcukn950/harmattan has bugs - it even encounters bug 1308413:55
MeeGoBotBug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13084 maj, Medium, ---, carsten, ASSI, [n900] Horizontal tearing with xvimagesink13:55
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lcukwhen xv mode == screen resolution13:56
* lcuk worked around by wiggling screen res13:56
lcukbut the n950 has a yicky border around and some other stuff13:56
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lcukI will probably use the qt build on ovi directly13:56
lcukit was fun to install directly from my maemo debs13:57
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timoph:)13:59
lcukin qt how do I know my user data folder?14:00
lcuk(since it changes per OS etc)14:00
timophQDir::homePath() or something like that14:01
lcukon symbian everything is inside its own little folder14:01
timophhmmh14:01
lcukso my idea of a distinct datasync tool is not gonna work14:01
lcukif sketches are not in same accessible place as calendar entries or tags or any of hte other data14:02
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w00tQDesktopServices::storageLocation is also useful14:06
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lcukthanks w00t i will take a look later and see14:08
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* lcuk cannot suss out how to sort out packaging from qt creator yet14:09
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mostyhow does the meego tablet UX decide which icons to use for an application in the "top applications" and "view all applications" displays?15:33
mostyand is there a way to trigger an update of these if they are cached?15:34
dm8tbra reboot should take care of the latter15:36
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dm8tbrdunno if there is something to make the UX update without restarting it (not necessarily reboot)15:37
dm8tbras to the icons in the applications, that's a custom directory IIRC15:37
dm8tbrtop applications is usage based15:37
lcukJaffa, what was wget useful for?15:38
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mostydm8tbr, there seem to be a couple of likely places in /usr/share/themes/<resolution>/15:41
Jaffalcuk: Spidering repo.pub.meego.com to find anyone who's created a Harmattan home repo/project.15:41
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* CosmoHill head-bangs the keyboard16:17
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gabrbeddMIC2 is a fickle friend16:33
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berndhsgabrbedd: i'm finding that out too16:34
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gabrbeddberndhs: my favorite part is how it "installs" about 800 packages... then fails because one of them failed.  Doesn't tell you which... and says it's an rpmdb checksum (which doesn't make you think, "Hmmm... I have a dependency issue."16:36
JossHey, someone here?16:36
gabrbeddJoss: no16:36
gabrbedd:-p16:36
JossWho can help me with my brightness problem16:36
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JossI have been messing with it for the last entire day16:37
CosmoHillif you're a dim person you'd probably be better of asking a college16:37
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gabrbeddJoss: what's the problem?16:37
JossSo I have a samsung n210 netbook16:38
JossThe brightness up/down didnt work16:38
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Jossand pressing fn + down/up freezed the computer16:38
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Jossso now i have tried different solutions16:38
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Jossfn down still freezes the computer16:39
Jossbut it also gets the brightness down16:39
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gabrbeddJoss: what version/type of meego are you running?16:39
Jossand if I try to increase brightness in devices, then it will start flashin ja freezes.16:39
Jossthe latest version16:39
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gabrbeddJoss: The latest development version?  The latest stable version?  The tablet version?  The netbook version?16:40
Joss2.6.37.2-8.2716:41
Jossnetbook version16:41
berndhs~seen texrat16:42
infobottexrat <47a4a9ca@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.164.169.202> was last seen on IRC in channel #meego, 3d 1h 51m 45s ago, saying: 'hey berndhs'.16:42
berndhsoh this is special, MIC2 retrieves package version 0.1.4.5 when I know the version is not there any more16:43
JossMeeGo v1.2.0.1 Netbook16:43
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gabrbeddJoss: Sounds like you have a driver issue.  There probably won't be an easy fix... because the issue spans your BIOS, video hardware, and kernel drivers.16:47
Jossgabrbedd: any ideas?16:47
gabrbeddJoss: what does `find /sys/class/backlight` give you (from a terminal)?16:47
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Jossfind /sys/class/backlight16:48
Jossuuh16:48
Josssry16:48
Joss/sys/class/backlight16:48
Joss/sys/class/backlight/acpi_video016:48
Joss/sys/class/backlight/samsung16:48
gabrbeddJoss: Please file a bug at bugs.meego.com16:49
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gabrbeddJoss: Also, that `samsung` device implies there's a specially-made samsung backlight driver that probably isn't working right.  So it's probably not just a MeeGo issue, if you search around.16:50
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Jossthis samsung backlight I installed myselft16:51
Jossor atleast tried to16:51
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JossI tried all the solutions I could find online16:52
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gabrbeddJoss: BTW what cpu do you have?  (cat /proc/cpu | grep model)16:55
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Stskeepscpuinfo isn't it16:55
berndhsthat's the thing with solutions found online, the majority don't work16:55
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gabrbeddStskeeps: I was just curious.16:57
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Stskeepsgabrbedd: yeah, but i think it's /proc/cpuinfo instead ;)16:58
gabrbeddStskeeps: D'OH!16:58
gabrbedd:-)16:58
JossIntel Atom N455model name: Intel(R) Atom(TM) CPU N550   @ 1.50GHz16:58
Jossmodel name: Intel(R) Atom(TM) CPU N550   @ 1.50GHz16:58
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gabrbeddJoss: FWIW, I have an Atom N450 with *no* backlight support.  :-/16:59
gabrbeddJoss: You've got the dual-core atom?16:59
Josswell on windows and ubuntu i got it working17:00
Jossno17:00
mcfriskQ: how should kernel modules be build with OBS and MeeGo? I have this blob from Intel...17:01
thiagoI thought the MeeGo kernel didn't use modules17:01
thiagowait, that's definitely wrong17:01
Stskeepswe use modules and a few of them17:01
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Stskeepsmcfrisk: if you ask arjan he'll probably shout at you17:02
Stskeeps:P17:02
mcfriskok, separate third party kernel modules..17:02
mcfriskyes, I see the trend17:02
Stskeepsyou can look at how kmod-virtiogl or something is made17:02
Jossthe solution I currently use is to maximize the brightness while booting17:02
Stskeepsthat's the only semi-condoned kmod we have17:03
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mcfriskthanks, kmod-virtiogl seems like a good example17:03
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gabrbeddmcfrisk: arjan has stated several times that out-of-tree kernel modules will not be supported in MeeGo.17:15
gabrbeddmcfrisk: the solution is to roll your own kernel.17:15
* gabrbedd is just the messenger, though.17:15
Stskeepsgabrbedd: well, in meego.com.. but it is entirely possible to do them outside17:15
Jossgabrbedd: so I must wait for a proper solution :)?17:16
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maligorthe kernel building seems weird in meego anyway17:16
Stskeepsit isn't very clear, agreed, but once you understand some things .. :P17:17
maligormaking a local obs build of a kernel damages the makefiles somehow, you can't rebuild it out of the patches files17:17
gabrbeddStskeeps: yes, it is... which is helpful when building and debugging them.17:17
gabrbeddmaligor: FWIW, it's much more clear (to me) than when I build kernels for debian.17:18
mcfriskwell, Intel says to download their binary rpm's, I'd at least compile it..17:18
gabrbeddJoss: I can't say.  Since it's device-specific... it really falls to Samsung to provide the solution.17:19
maligorCan't remember what I did to get the patched tree without broken makefiles17:19
gabrbeddJoss: ...or for some community member to figure out how Ubuntu did it, and port the solution to MeeGo.17:19
maligorI definately didn't want to apply atleast 50 patches manually17:20
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maligormight've used rpmbuild to prepare it17:20
gabrbeddmaligor: Don't the kernels ship with a quilt `series` file?17:20
gabrbeddIIRC it's kept in sync with the .spec's patch series.17:20
Jossin ubuntu it was easy17:20
maligorthe patching sequence is in the .spec file17:20
maligornot sure if there was a serier17:21
maligorerr.. series17:21
Jossjust download the samsung-backlight package and you are all done17:21
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gabrbeddJoss: is that a kernel module or something?17:21
Jossi tried to install it via kernel17:21
gabrbeddJoss: OK, but it didn't work -- which means that *someone* has to take the time to figure out why.17:22
gabrbeddJoss: the way to find that someone is to file a bug.17:23
JossOk, got it.17:23
gabrbeddJass: as well as discuss the issue here. :-)17:23
Joss:)17:23
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albancstormer, I recompiled glib-networking with --with-gnome-proxy=no --with-libproxy=yes, using libproxy.so.1 from pacrunner. Then telepathy-gabble links with libgiolibproxy.so and libproxy.so.1.0.0  but it still  connect directly without the proxy...17:34
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KermitMeiExcuse me, I installed Meego on a table, but there's no virtual keyboard, How can I get it?18:03
KermitMeiThanks18:03
lcukKermitMei, which Table did you install it onto?18:05
* lcuk has it installed on kitchen table18:05
erstazilcuk: haha18:05
JaffaKermitMei: And what image did you install?18:05
KermitMeiTablet PC from ViewSonic18:06
erstaziKermitMei: 1.1 should have a virtual keyboard18:06
KermitMeiAtom inside18:06
KermitMeiBut I'm using 1.2.18:06
KermitMeiAny way?18:06
lcukhttp://wiki.meego.com/Devices/Ideapad#On-screen_keyboard18:06
lcuktry that18:06
dm8tbrKermitMei: did you install the tablet image or the netbook version?18:06
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KermitMeiMeego-desktop 2.6.38.2-8.12. I think its neetbook version ...18:08
lcukthen try one of the later tablet builds18:09
berndhsi tried a 1.2.0.90 tablet build, it has a virtual keyboard18:09
KermitMeiI remember that I haven't found the tablet version on meego's home page, and then try the netbook version18:10
gabrbeddKermitMei: the standard netbook version does /not/ have a virtual keyboard.18:11
gabrbeddKermitMei: There has not been a "stable" release of the tablet version... they're all development builds.18:11
gabrbeddKermitMei: here's the latest....18:11
KermitMeiHmm, I see, now.18:11
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gabrbeddKermitMei: http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/1.2.0.90/1.2.0.90.9.20110719.4/images/meego-tablet-ia32-pinetrail/18:12
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djszapilbt X-Fade how fast does a built package get into the repository as a debian file ? There are packages that were built half a day ago, but still not available from the repository.18:16
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djszapi(Harmattan target)18:17
vgradedjszapi, non Harmattan packages are also not being reliably published18:18
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djszapivgrade: Could you please refine what "not reliably" means in this context ?18:20
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berndhsI'm seeing build.pub.meego.com say it has 0.1.4.6, whild repo.pub.meego.com still has 0.1.4.518:21
vgradedjszapi, I had some pacakges published this morning around 9am GMT but not all I submitted.  I've also been getting stuck builds. My arm libmeegotouch build is in that state now.18:22
djszapivgrade: I see. I gave up I will ever have a kdelibs working on /c-obs/.18:23
djszapivgrade: how long does it take you to build libmeegotouch ?18:24
berndhsdjszapi: vgrade: in the case I'm seeing, the building is trivial, its just a shell script. So the issue is pushing the build results into the repo18:25
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vgradeberndhs, agreed.  The  builds go through fine and the GUI says writted to repo.  Just they dont end up there.18:26
djszapiberndhs: I wish the build was trivial. I have been trying to build kdelibs for 1-2 weeks on c-obs. It always worked in my environment, when I finished the debian folder content.18:26
djszapithe most common  build issue is this "rpc" timeout for me.18:27
berndhsyesterday I also saw many timeouts trying to pull pacakges from the repo with mic218:28
vgradedjszapi, 14 mins for libmeegotough18:28
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djszapivgrade: kdelibs is 4-5 hours :)18:28
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vgradedjszapi, must be your build that's causing the problem :)18:30
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djszapiWhat do you mean ?18:30
vgradejoke18:31
fiferboyI just set up a new repo in OBS and built a package successfully, but the repo won't publish18:31
fiferboyIt says "The setup of repository is broken, build not possible"18:32
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vgradefiferboy, Do you have the lorry icon, 'Repository has been published'18:33
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djszapivgrade: I am not sure 6 GB physical memory is enough for the Harmattan target.18:35
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vgradedjszapi, the target does work sometimes , http://repo.pub.meego.com/home:/vgrade%3a/twingo/Harmattan/armel/18:38
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djszapivgrade: I do not doubt, but I think 6 GB is problematic for goliath builds, like KDE.18:39
djszapimainly if does more compilation units in paralel.18:39
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fiferboyvgrade: No, I get a red error icon18:41
vgradedjszapi, OK I see. I notice that the main OBS does Qt builds on dedicated workers.18:41
vgradefiferboy, ok, good at least your build is giving accurate status18:42
fiferboyTrying a rebuild of the package to see if it will trigger the right status18:42
vgradelbt is on leave today has anyone seen X-Fade18:42
djszapivgrade: well, I cannot mention any other reason seriously.18:43
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fiferboyAfter the build finishes it goes to a warning state saying: "State needs recalculations, former state was: Build jobs exist"18:43
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djszapiit is annoying, my kdelibs build finished at least 3-4 times. (they took me 4-5 hours) Afterwards, before installing, it got stuck and that was the end of the story. I think it is memory or cache issue in that stage because I cannot come up with any other reasonable arguement. :)18:43
djszapivgrade ^18:43
lcukdjszapi, what are you using the kdelibs for (ie which apps need them?)18:45
djszapiI have not known till this conversation, the "rpm timeout" comes from mic2.18:45
vgradewe will need to wait for the admins to look further18:45
djszapilcuk: any that is ported. For instance the whole pim, but kalgebra for a nice example.18:45
djszapibut seriously a tons of opportunity for KDE developers to start porting their application to this phone. Do not forget, KDE != plasma only.18:46
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fiferboyBuild went to succeeded, status "Build jobs have been processed, new repository is not yet created"18:46
lcuki do not know the layout of kde, hence the question18:46
fiferboyThis looks a bit more promising18:46
lcukfiferboy, \o18:46
lcukI was thinking of you and lardman the other day18:47
* lcuk had whole conversation about a plane spotting/recognition app18:47
djszapilcuk: you did not see the kde application on fremantle ?18:47
fiferboylcuk: o/18:47
lcukdjszapi, I have seen mek running kde applications18:47
djszapisomeone even used kde workspace on meego devices, tablets.18:47
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fiferboyI have heard of plane spotting applications before18:48
lcukbut on the whole, most kde apps are desktop and large apps which looked cramped and not very usable18:48
lcuksame as any desktop apps18:48
lcukdjszapi, I saw mek playing with plasma widgets at some point18:48
lcukwhich seems more feasible18:48
djszapilcuk: http://kde.garage.maemo.org/screenshots_kdebase.html18:48
fiferboyYay!  "Repository is created right now"18:49
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fiferboyHmm, back to "Build jobs have been processed, new repository is not yet created"18:49
fiferboyOBS is messing with me18:49
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djszapilcuk: kde is not equal to kde-mobile :) They are porting the desktop applications to QML, Plasma Quick and so forth. They do not compile the widget based applications and run :)18:53
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lcukdjszapi, so what is kdelibs that you are trying to build for?18:54
lcukkde desktop or kde mobile?18:54
djszapilcuk: "Mobile" profile :)18:54
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stormeralbanc: ok, first step done, next step is to replace the Gnome 2 proxy UI to setup the PACRunner18:55
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stormeralbanc: Instead of writing into GConf, the guy who decided to move to PACRunner was kind enough to push this into stable meego without completing the installation18:56
stormeralbanc: I mean the implementation18:56
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djszapilcuk: come to the Desktop Summit ?19:04
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djszapilcuk: good example where KDE could come into the picture is Konversation with a nice IRC client. Currently, we are really missing one.19:06
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djszapilcuk: but the whole KDE EDU thing, just think of that how many students have phones nowadays so that they could learn this way with their gadget since that is more interesting for them than with paper and pen :)19:07
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djszapibut games, personal information management, so wide palette..19:08
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lcukdjszapi, the paper and pen thing needs working on19:15
lcuksince finger painting on a small device only allows a few words on the screen :P19:15
lcukdual mode devices are a must19:15
lcukI really want to see meego support for the htc flyer19:16
djszapilcuk: you have basically pinch area.19:16
lcukdjszapi, I know the technical aspects19:17
lcuksince I am one of the rare folks who prefers pen input19:17
lcukhttp://liqbase.net/20110610_002.jpg19:17
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lcukhttp://liqbase.net/liq.20110623_015300.liqbase-playground.scr.png19:18
djszapilcuk: speaking of which, okular...nice PDF viewer.19:18
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lcukdjszapi, how performant are these desktop apps on mobile devices?19:19
djszapilcuk: why would it be any different from any QML app after a port ? I think it is even better since the libraries and background operations have been tested for ages on desktop.19:19
lcukand how well will they run within swipe ux for instance19:19
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lcukdjszapi, tested for ages on desktop != optimal on mobile19:20
djszapilcuk: you should visit pinheiro's presentation at the Desktop Summit :)19:20
lcukdesktop has not had performance lag for many years19:20
djszapilcuk: the point is that the functionality is as optimal as possible.19:20
lcuksince you can easily say use more memory faster cpu super graphics card etc19:20
djszapiwhich is rarely the case when you writing a mobile app from scratch right now for Harmattan.19:20
lcukthe last time I saw anyone really worrying about performance was late 90s when .net 1.0 came out19:21
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djszapilcuk: you should really listen to this presentation :) https://www.desktopsummit.org/program/sessions/qml-designers-prespective19:22
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djszapiit is from a KDE designer/artist, oxygen-icons author..19:22
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djszapiI can hardly believe some of the programmer can design better Ui for mobile devices than him for KDE applications, if you ask for help :)19:23
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Venemodjszapi, good afternoon19:25
lcukdjszapi, the key benefit of qml does not come from the fact it is qml, it is the IDE which helps.19:25
Venemodjszapi, so, could you please take a look at http://bugreports.qt.nokia.com/browse/QTCREATORBUG-5459 ?19:25
lcukdjszapi, rapid app development can work in any toolkit19:25
djszapilcuk: that is really personal opinion, nothing technical.19:26
lcukand designer or developer or person working on UX needs to get to know the toolkit and environment to be good at it19:26
djszapidisagree :)19:26
Venemolcuk, hah, there is currently no IDE for QML editing. at least Qt Creator's designer doesn't work with the components19:26
lcukdjszapi, if a UX designer is fluent in potoshop or in flash19:26
lcukthey are no good at qml19:27
lcukuntil they know how to use qml19:27
djszapilcuk: It takes me ages to find the right area in a designer, meanwhile it is one command in vi ;)19:27
djszapithis opinion is really not technical, but personal.19:27
lcukhttp://liqbase.net/packaging_learning_curves.jpg19:27
lcuks/packaging/ux toolkit/19:27
infobotlcuk meant: http://liqbase.net/ux toolkit_learning_curves.jpg19:27
lcuksame occurs19:27
lcukdesigners get good using the tools they use19:28
berndhswhatever the toolkit or language, developers ahve to get the application logic correct19:28
lcukmy mate is an exceptional CAD designer - using autocad19:28
berndhsnot approximately correct, but completely correct19:28
berndhsthe tool or language doesn't help there19:28
lcukbut give him another CAD package (say qml based..) he would not be as good for a while19:28
Jartzayeah19:29
JartzaI learned autocad years ago19:29
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Jartzanow I got archicad19:29
Jartzaand I'm lost with it19:29
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JartzaI only need to draw one floorplan and it's next to impossible without a learning new things :(19:30
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* gabrbedd used Microstation (CAD) for years.19:30
gabrbeddThen the company switched to AutoCRAP because "that's what our customers use."19:31
gabrbeddAnd I kept asking, "Do our customers design our machines, too?"19:31
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lcukdoes the community device program have a ML?19:46
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fiferboyHmm, I can get the package to build in my OBS repo but I still can't get the repo to publish19:50
fiferboyI don't suppose there is a way to push through repo publication...19:50
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lcukDawnFoster, I posted a tweak of that mail directly to noteslate people and also onto meego-community ML19:54
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lcukif I hear anything more and it is not on the ML I will update the thread there19:54
DawnFosterlcuk: cool, thanks19:54
* lcuk should send similar to the HTC Flyer people19:55
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Alison_ChaikenHey Intel guys, how long we can expect that a particular Atom variant might be available, in general?  Are there some that have long-term support and not others?    I see Intel has done some second-sourcing of Atom, but not a lot? Intel is such a big company, can't imagine who to ask.20:21
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CosmoHillhey auke20:26
SpeedEvilAlison_Chaiken: developer.intel.com might be a reasoable place to poke around20:27
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* lcuk makes a paper aeroplane and flies it around the chan20:30
CosmoHillMY EYE20:30
lcukDawnFoster, ::20:30
lcuk20:30
lcuknoteslate NoteSlate20:30
lcuk@lcuk we will consider for noteslate MeeGo, as alternative implementation to NS Firmware.20:30
DawnFosterlcuk: cool, thanks20:30
lcuksomeone who is better negotiator than me please take up this and see what can be done :$20:31
* lcuk cannot find right words when needed 20:31
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vgradefiferboy, don't think there is anythine we can do20:32
lcukvgrade, fiferboy - see what magic lbt and X-Fade and the team can come up with20:33
vgradebut sit and wait for the admins to have a look20:33
fiferboyvgrade, lcuk - I'll wait a while and trigger a rebuild to see if it is still acting up20:33
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lcukfiferboy, with the n950 can you take decent photos of the birds you are watching?20:35
lcukor have you not ftaken it out into the field yet?20:35
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fiferboylcuk: Not nearly long enough lens, unfortunately20:35
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lcukit is not the size of the lens, it is how you use it :P20:36
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aukeAlison_Chaiken: in general, Intel has hardware availability plans that are very short term - you'd have to talk to a seller to get precise information...20:36
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fiferboylcuk: Yes, if I could get within 4 feet of all the birds I see I would be the best ninja bird watcher20:42
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Alison_Chaikenauke, a buddy who is deploying Atoms as camera controllers at SLAC sent me this: http://www.intel.com/p/en_US/embedded/hwsw/hardware/atom20:44
Alison_ChaikenSo it sounds like the answer is 7 years, altho I'm not sure when the clock starts for each product.20:45
pixelgeekThe embedded cycles are longer - 7 years sounds right.20:46
pixelgeekProbably measured from first customer ship.20:46
pixelgeekConsumer cycles would be in the 1-2 year range.20:47
aukein general, "atom" will be available for a long time, but specific versions may be discontinued at any time...20:47
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* pixelgeek inserts a disclaimer - contact your reseller for full details.20:47
aukeyup20:47
pixelgeekThe reseller will get notified on all the End Of Life notices and last ship dates.20:48
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pixelgeekAnd of course the system the Atom is in may go EOL before the chip itself.20:49
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Alison_ChaikenFor certain kinds of projects, long-term availability is key, so companies cannot plan to use a product if availability is not guaranteed for at least a few years.21:01
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Alison_ChaikenContacting newegg or whoever periodically to find out if a product is still available is not very convenient, to put it mildly!21:02
auketalk to an intel rep21:02
aukeor a volume seller, not newegg... ;)21:02
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CosmoHillhey GeneralAntilles21:05
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berndhsI don't get it. repo.meego.com has an image for tablet 1.2.80.8.0.20110628.2 and a ks file, but mic2 won't build from that ks file21:26
berndhssays failed to find pacakge 'moblin-live'21:27
aukethe snapshot folder that it's pointing to is probably no longer there21:27
berndhsah21:27
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berndhsi took an image from a builds/ tree, hoping it is reproducible21:29
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* lcuk cannot seem to get mic2 to build arm images21:30
* lcuk sad panda21:30
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* gabrbedd kicks mic221:39
gabrbeddbad doggie!21:39
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vgradelcuk, what problems are you having21:42
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lcukvgrade, it was a few days ago and probably driver error. I will try again when I am motivated.21:43
* lcuk lacking energy tonight and cannot play football because its raining21:43
vgradelcuk, I've had the most sucess with mic using a fedora vm21:43
lcukI was trying from within meego netbook21:44
lcuktonight I am mostly trying to work out how to fix bug 1308421:44
MeeGoBotBug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13084 maj, Medium, ---, carsten, ASSI, [n900] Horizontal tearing with xvimagesink21:44
lcukbut it is frustratingly annoying to even see the problem let alone make a patch to cure it21:45
lcukbut it impacts harmattan also21:45
Stskeepslcuk: check the versions of xserver-xorg-video-fbdev and compare that with the one we have21:45
* gabrbedd scribbles down "fedora vm for mic2 (props to vgrade)"21:45
lcukStskeeps, its been a long standing bug21:45
Stskeepslcuk: i know21:45
Stskeepslcuk: but it surprises me it's in n950 too21:45
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lcukas in, various versions21:45
lcuki couldnt even work out how to clone the right package to even try and fix it21:45
lcukStskeeps, if I open liqbase at 854*480 it has identical symptom21:46
gabrbeddvgrade: know of any translation tables for mic2 errors?  i.e. "When mic2 says 'X' then it's probably actually 'Y'"21:46
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Stskeepslcuk: interesting21:46
lcukbut if I open window 800*480 it sortof runs ok21:46
lcukbut not perfectly by any means21:46
lcukseems xvideo is low priority everywhere21:47
* lcuk considers giving up and becomes a gardener instead21:47
* lcuk even curses having to use software rotation21:47
lcuksince xvideo in portrait has never worked21:47
lcukhttp://liqbase.net/liqbase_rotate_480x480.jpg21:48
lcukxvideo portrait mode on the *N810*21:48
* lcuk bahs21:48
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ali1234xvideo sucks21:49
ali1234don't use it21:50
lcukwhat do you suggest I use?21:50
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ali1234what are you trying to achieve?21:50
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lcukrunning portrait mode YUV code without having to do slow ass software rotation21:51
* lcuk got rotation to 40fps on n90021:51
ali1234no21:51
lcukbut it is a whole 20fps slower than it needs to be since the omapfb driver should work happily rotated21:51
ali1234what are you trying to achieve?21:51
lcukali1234, run liqbase in portrait21:51
lcukand on meego, run liqbase at all21:52
lcuksorry, meego n90021:52
lcukmeego netbook it runs better than flawlessly21:52
berndhsI would take up gardening right now, but its 34C outside, this is the wrong day21:52
ali1234wait21:53
ali1234liqbase, the notepad emulator21:53
ali1234why does this need portrait mode?21:53
ali1234just turn the device sideways and carry on21:54
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lcukali1234, it has wanted portrait mode always21:54
ali1234why does this involve changing code?21:54
lcukturning it on its side is not practical for some elements21:54
lcukthe video mode does not run portrait21:54
ali1234so what?21:55
lcukas seen by the extremely old screenshot21:55
ali1234i don't see why this is a problem21:55
lcukbecause I dont want pictures on their side21:55
lcukor writing etc21:55
ali1234then rotate it in your scene graph21:55
ali1234writing won't fit on the screen if you rotate it 90 degrees of course21:56
ali1234but there's not much you can do about that21:56
lcuksigh21:56
ali1234unless you originally wrote it in portrait mode21:56
lcukliqbase was written without qt and does not have scenegraph21:56
ali1234but then in that case you don't need portrait mode, you just need to turn the whole device on it's side21:56
ali1234well in that case you should rewrite it to have a scene graph21:57
lcuksigh21:57
lcukor fix the drivers21:57
ali1234well, enjoy maintaining that outdated and horrible API...21:58
lcukali1234, forgetting about portrait, the xvideo mode on meego handset makes things look like this:21:58
lcukhttp://liqbase.net/20110314_007.jpg21:58
ali1234well yeah. typical xvideo crap21:58
lcukbug 13084 as the discussion started21:58
MeeGoBotBug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13084 maj, Medium, ---, carsten, ASSI, [n900] Horizontal tearing with xvimagesink21:58
ali1234that's not tearing21:59
ali1234that's an incorrect width buffer21:59
lcukno, its a bug21:59
lcukand if you load up the n900-ce, and try to watch the included demo video21:59
lcuksintel_trailer21:59
ali1234actually judging from the weird colours i would say "YUV mode not supported" most likely21:59
lcukthat is what you see21:59
ali1234yes i have seen it21:59
ali1234i thought that was fixed actually21:59
lcukwell that is exactly as seen just yesterday22:00
lcukand exactly as even occurs on harmattan in specific modes22:00
ali1234the answer to all your problems is to stop using programming techniques from 1997, seriously22:00
lcukthe portrait niggles are not important and just frustrate me personally :)22:00
lcukali1234, the meego-app-video has this22:01
lcukand that is written in qt22:01
ali1234yes, i know22:01
ali1234you are not playing video22:01
ali1234therefore you should not be using xvideo22:01
lcukbug 13084 is22:01
MeeGoBotBug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13084 maj, Medium, ---, carsten, ASSI, [n900] Horizontal tearing with xvimagesink22:01
berndhsyeah if everyone just used scene graphs, we wouldn't have all these problems22:01
lcukali1234, why not?22:01
lcuki wanted a greyscale planar surface to draw on22:02
ali1234because xvideo is designed for playing video, and it's not even particularly good at that22:02
lcukYUV (thanks to the Y channel) gives that22:02
lcukcolour is not important to me22:02
lcuktearfree grayscale was and is22:02
lcukthe noteslate is a black and white device22:02
ali1234stop using bitmaps for everything, this is not DOS, you have accelerated line drawing algorithms22:02
lcukwhich is dreamy22:02
lcukali1234, ?22:03
lcukline drawing was removed from opengl es22:03
lcukyou cannot do real wireframes22:03
lcukyou have to use pixel shaders22:03
ali1234and this is a problem, because?22:03
lcukmodern open gl has no direct line drawing acceleration22:03
lcukso where is it coming from?22:03
ali1234very thin polygons22:04
lcuk:)22:04
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djszapi_vgrade: 98%, let us see... :) https://build.pub.meego.com/package/live_build_log?arch=armv7el&package=kdelibs&project=home%3Adjszapi&repository=MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan23:15
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vgradedjszapi_, fingers crossed23:31
vgradeI see others having issues, fiferboy, kimju23:33
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djszapi_vgrade: nothing in the last half an hour. It got again stuck23:45
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