| dm8tbr | s/knew/know | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| timeless | if you want to see which things are current/working, http://mxr.meego.com/hgweb.cgi (wait, it takes a while to load) lists dm8tbr the repositories on mxr.meego | 00:00 |
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| berndhs | i can't find the connman command line :( | 00:00 |
| timeless | the last-modified column is relevant | 00:00 |
| timeless | e.g. meego-apps-client unknown unknown 2 days ago | 00:00 |
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| timeless | so, a couple of things have successfully updated "recently" | 00:00 |
| timeless | and most of them are "stuck" | 00:00 |
| dm8tbr | ah | 00:01 |
| lbt | mmm | 00:01 |
| timeless | i don't have easy access to the keys for the box, so i'm not really in a position to find out why/how they're stuck | 00:01 |
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| * lbt can look at mxr issues | 00:02 | |
| timeless | http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-applications/meego-apps-client | 00:02 |
| lbt | be happy if someone from the community stood up to look after it though | 00:02 |
| timeless | shows that the repository was created two days ago | 00:02 |
| timeless | which explains the date | 00:02 |
| timeless | and also why it's empty in mxr :) | 00:02 |
| timeless | http://mxr.meego.com/meego.gitorious.org/source/meego-apps-client/ | 00:02 |
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| timeless | (it's empty in gitorious..) | 00:03 |
| timeless | lbt: so... | 00:03 |
| timeless | if you could visit the box and do: | 00:03 |
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| dm8tbr | lbt: you could start by convincing me to work on the bots... | 00:03 |
| timeless | cd /data/mxr-roots/meego.gitorious.org/ | 00:03 |
| Andy80 | Elleo: finally I had time to incude your debian/ ;) I should be in the queue in minutes | 00:03 |
| timeless | hrm | 00:03 |
| timeless | actually | 00:03 |
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| timeless | do a crontab dump and look to see what the crontab says | 00:04 |
| lbt | DawnFoster ... when you have a minute.... tweet! | 00:04 |
| timeless | i can't remember exactly what it says | 00:04 |
| timeless | iirc it's ./update-src.pl meego.gitorious.org | 00:04 |
| timeless | (do it w/o the -cron flag) | 00:04 |
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| timeless | and actually, you might be in /data/mxr/ or something else | 00:05 |
| * timeless shrugs | 00:05 | |
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| * timeless doesn't really remember the directory structure anymore :( | 00:05 | |
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| timeless | but if you have 20mins or so and can spend them today while i'm alive, it'd work better | 00:05 |
| timeless | i'm absolutely unavailable next week | 00:05 |
| lbt | timeless: OK | 00:05 |
| timeless | and i'm usually hard to grab on friday/saturday | 00:05 |
| timeless | (and i need to pack on Sunday) | 00:06 |
| * lbt would like to avoid grabbing a timeless on a fri/sat ... or any other time ;) | 00:06 | |
| lbt | does it all run as www-data ? | 00:06 |
| timeless | the webserver side probably does | 00:07 |
| timeless | the update stuff runs as me | 00:07 |
| CosmoHill | timeless: I like on macs that you can put them to sleep and swap the batteries over without losing anything :) | 00:07 |
| timeless | CosmoHill: that was effectively what happened here | 00:07 |
| CosmoHill | I mean older macs where swapping the battery doesn't take 2 hours and a selection of screw drivers | 00:07 |
| timeless | heh | 00:07 |
| * CosmoHill is on a 6 year old powerbook | 00:07 | |
| timeless | but really, it wasn't sleeping, it was deep hibernation | 00:07 |
| lbt | ah /data/docroot/mxr/update-full-onetree.sh -cron --by-unit meego.gitorious.org | 00:08 |
| timeless | right | 00:08 |
| timeless | drop -cron | 00:08 |
| timeless | heck, use sh -x and watch it do its stuff | 00:08 |
| lbt | you mean edit the crontab and remove the -cron | 00:08 |
| timeless | the interesting part should be the call to update-src.pl | 00:08 |
| timeless | no, just do it once manually | 00:08 |
| lbt | OK | 00:08 |
| timeless | there should really be something obvious going wrong | 00:09 |
| timeless | so... | 00:09 |
| timeless | sh -x /data/.../update.. --by-unit meego.... | 00:09 |
| lbt | cd: 1: can't cd to /data/mxr-data/amo/amo | 00:09 |
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| timeless | yeah, that doesn't sound good | 00:09 |
| lbt | warning: could not find time for TIME | 00:09 |
| * timeless wonders if something tried to update mxr itself... | 00:09 | |
| timeless | the time/TIME thing is ok | 00:10 |
| timeless | (it's stupid/annoying, but it's ok) | 00:10 |
| timeless | the amo bit is worrisome | 00:10 |
| timeless | echo /data/docroot/mxr* |xargs -n1 hg st -R | 00:10 |
| timeless | would probably be useful | 00:10 |
| * timeless wonders if something strange happened | 00:11 | |
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| DawnFoster | lbt: you pinged? :) | 00:24 |
| CosmoHill | he ponged, but I got him with some Lynx | 00:24 |
| DawnFoster | lbt: ah, that was a completely not work related tweet | 00:24 |
| DawnFoster | lbt: so nothing to do with you :) | 00:25 |
| lbt | damn | 00:26 |
| DawnFoster | sorry :( | 00:26 |
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| lcukn900 | dawnfoster, did i read somewhere that appup allows installation of libraries along with the app? | 00:33 |
| lcukn900 | i could put my calendar and apps onto it without porting if so | 00:34 |
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| DawnFoster | lcukn900: not sure - to be honest, I just work on the open source stuff and not on appup | 00:34 |
| lcukn900 | my code is opn source :) | 00:34 |
| lcukn900 | :p | 00:34 |
| * lcukn900 prefers open sauce salads and pizzas | 00:34 | |
| leinir | lcukn900: it does allow library installations - the meego packages on appup are simply rpms like any other, and there's even a way of doing some package dependency stuff through it (called Components)... so yeah, should be entirely possible :) | 00:36 |
| lcukn900 | leinir!!! you god | 00:37 |
| leinir | but... go to one of the applabs and ask the peeps directly... or just email them, they're very responsive :) | 00:37 |
| lcukn900 | is it documented anywhere? | 00:37 |
| lcukn900 | i have my meego netbook running all my favourite apps | 00:37 |
| leinir | i guess it would be, but i don't have a link handy... | 00:37 |
| lcukn900 | i just want a simple way for you lot to also have same and also hopefully put some bread on the table | 00:38 |
| * lcukn900 wants to spend time gardening and bringing up the kids | 00:38 | |
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| lcukn900 | hi noob | 00:39 |
| CosmoHill | It's a virgin! | 00:40 |
| lcukn900 | in fun news. apt-get install build-essential is the most awesome command to run on n950 | 00:40 |
| CosmoHill | ....media customer | 00:40 |
| lcukn900 | is a new customer at virgin a virgin virgin? | 00:40 |
| CosmoHill | depends if they've spoken to customer services | 00:41 |
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| lcukn900 | someone suggested a company name as liqware | 00:42 |
| leinir | lcukn900: there's something about it here, should give you a nice overview... though you probably want to dig a bit deeper :) http://appdeveloper.intel.com/en-us/article/frequently-asked-questions#dev_00 | 00:42 |
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| lbt | thiago: is there a workaround for the N950/https issue? | 00:45 |
| lcukn900 | thanks leinir, that is indeed helpful the components might be what i am looking for, but i do already have prototype c++ qt calendar core as an alternative | 00:45 |
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| * lcukn900 would prefer to maintain libliqbase than rewrite stuff | 00:45 | |
| leinir | *nods* :) | 00:46 |
| thiago | lbt: backport a patch and recompile Qt... | 00:49 |
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| TSCHAKeee | so, I send in my info to get a N950, they say, ok, it'll take a week.. | 00:51 |
| TSCHAKeee | that was exactly 7 days ago | 00:51 |
| TSCHAKeee | today | 00:51 |
| TSCHAKeee | I get a mail | 00:51 |
| TSCHAKeee | "OK! We j | 00:51 |
| TSCHAKeee | "OK! We _JUST_ shipped it! here's your tracking #" | 00:51 |
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| TSCHAKeee | *facepalm* | 00:51 |
| TSCHAKeee | :P :) | 00:51 |
| vgrade_ | TSCHAKeee: hi | 00:51 |
| TSCHAKeee | hey vgrade_! :) | 00:51 |
| vgrade_ | what you planning for your new toy | 00:52 |
| TSCHAKeee | I know, been quiet lately, been busy trying to help get qOrbiter written | 00:52 |
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| TSCHAKeee | vgrade_: it's one of the test targets for the new qOrbiter (aka Orbiter version 2) | 00:52 |
| vgrade_ | yup, I saw some videos | 00:52 |
| TSCHAKeee | it'll take a few passes to really get things the way we want them | 00:52 |
| TSCHAKeee | because we're trying to genuinely make things not suck | 00:53 |
| TSCHAKeee | Orbiter suffered from a lot of design decisions that were firmed up and then waterfalled | 00:53 |
| TSCHAKeee | before they really knew what they wanted. | 00:53 |
| lbt | thiago: uh huh.... so is this the missing TLS/SNI ? | 00:53 |
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| thiago | lbt: it's not TLS | 00:54 |
| thiago | lbt: it's the disabling of SSLv2 | 00:54 |
| vgrade_ | how are you finding Qt compared to how you used to do things | 00:54 |
| TSCHAKeee | vgrade_: we (2 of us atm), are building and testing between a Nokia N900 and my Archos9 | 00:54 |
| thiago | lbt: I mean, it's not SNI | 00:54 |
| TSCHAKeee | vgrade_: well, it's a bit more of a challenge for us ,because we're having to bridge to our existing STL based code | 00:54 |
| thiago | lbt: it is the TLS (disabling of SSLv2, enabling SSLv3 and TLSv1) | 00:54 |
| TSCHAKeee | vgrade_: but it's coming along nicely. the big thing I like is that I can now build a UI in photoshop or gimp, and literally transpose it over to QML. | 00:55 |
| TSCHAKeee | we'll start doing that in earnest soon | 00:55 |
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| vgrade_ | TSCHAKeee: I received my device yesterday. Primarily for platform dev but I will have to do an app | 00:56 |
| * lbt isn't sure which end is disabling what.... | 00:56 | |
| TSCHAKeee | but right now, we're just trying to get the orbiter engine actually feature complete enough to start doing UI design. | 00:56 |
| * CosmoHill begins to wish that his IRC client had an undo button | 00:56 | |
| TSCHAKeee | vgrade_: cool :) how you like it? | 00:56 |
| vgrade_ | smooth | 00:56 |
| TSCHAKeee | i've heard that across the board | 00:56 |
| TSCHAKeee | everybody who has touched "Swipe" has just loved it | 00:56 |
| TSCHAKeee | i mean, even Engadget was like, "...really?" | 00:57 |
| vgrade_ | TSCHAKeee: been out all day on a client site so cannot play | 00:57 |
| TSCHAKeee | "You do this NOW?, right when you're about to self destruct the platform?" :P | 00:57 |
| TSCHAKeee | *nod* | 00:57 |
| vgrade_ | bbiab | 00:59 |
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| Venemo | TSCHAKeee, yeah I agree | 01:01 |
| Venemo | TSCHAKeee, I also very much like the UI on the N950. but I'd love it more if it could do landscape | 01:02 |
| TSCHAKeee | wha? I thought it could rotate between the two? | 01:02 |
| Venemo | sure | 01:02 |
| Venemo | except for home screens and a couple of apps eg. contacts | 01:02 |
| TSCHAKeee | okay. | 01:03 |
| TSCHAKeee | well, to tell you the truth, one of the things that drove me nuts on the n900 | 01:03 |
| TSCHAKeee | was that the phone was the only thing i could use one handed | 01:03 |
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| Venemo | I understand | 01:04 |
| Venemo | but it is rather weird when I slide out the N950's keyboard and the screen doesn't rotate. | 01:04 |
| Venemo | and it's unsettling that it rotates back to portrait when I task switch even with landscape apps | 01:05 |
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| Elleo | Venemo: if you don't mind hacking around a bit you can get the homescreen to rotate | 01:05 |
| Elleo | Venemo: see X-Fade's post here: http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=24933&postcount=14 | 01:05 |
| smoku | Venemo, There is no spoo.. keyboard. | 01:05 |
| Venemo | Elleo, tried it, buggy. | 01:05 |
| smoku | consumer device has no keyboard, so you may aswell forget you have one ;-) | 01:06 |
| Venemo | smoku :P | 01:07 |
| Venemo | I will not forget! | 01:07 |
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| berndhs | the tablet won't start a terminal again once you exit the first one ? strange | 01:07 |
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| Venemo | berndhs, it does for me | 01:07 |
| Venemo | anyway, there is #harmattan for this :) | 01:08 |
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| lcuk | Stskeeps, is there possibility of building an open source percentage for harmattan or is it an indepth time consuming report? | 01:24 |
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| CosmoHill | my parents gave me a card for my grade and I'm damn sure I saw mum making it this morning | 01:35 |
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| lbt | antman8969: yes | 01:43 |
| lbt | so yes OBS is where to get extras-devel type things | 01:43 |
| lbt | we need some community lurv in that area | 01:43 |
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| antman8969 | I havn't looked into it yet, but I'm assuming libs like ssl and curl would bhave been taken care of | 01:44 |
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| antman8969 | liboauth is a maybe, but I could always do it myself | 01:44 |
| lbt | so hmmm | 01:44 |
| lbt | obs is focused on meego of course | 01:44 |
| lbt | and whilst Harmattan is MeeGo ... :) it's not | 01:45 |
| antman8969 | lol yea, I intend on supporting meego as well, so it's still relevant | 01:45 |
| lbt | so we may need something to port missing apps | 01:45 |
| lbt | libs | 01:45 |
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| CosmoHill | does youtube have a new look? | 01:46 |
| antman8969 | on a related note. I'm used to the extras system in Maemo. Will the OBS be the place where my app is downloaded from (if not the app up center / ovi store) and where the libs reside that it will depend on? | 01:46 |
| lbt | yes | 01:47 |
| lbt | but read this: http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Office/Task_Forces/MeeGo_Surrounds_and_Extras | 01:47 |
| lbt | and maybe this first: http://mer-l-in.blogspot.com/2011/01/meego-community-development-apps.html | 01:47 |
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| lbt | DawnFoster: ping | 01:47 |
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| DawnFoster | hey lbt | 01:48 |
| lbt | on http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Office/Task_Forces/MeeGo_Surrounds_and_Extras ... you put "IMPORTANT - this page to be replaced by MeeGo Apps - please move or delete the content and redirect the page to" | 01:48 |
| lbt | which isn't quite right AFAICT | 01:48 |
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| lbt | are you OK with me removing that | 01:48 |
| DawnFoster | lbt: ok | 01:48 |
| lbt | we have some work in that area I know | 01:48 |
| DawnFoster | Henri and I took a swag and guessed on a few | 01:48 |
| lbt | OK .. np | 01:49 |
| DawnFoster | so feel free to keep it | 01:49 |
| lbt | ta | 01:49 |
| DawnFoster | the apps stuff was a mess | 01:49 |
| lbt | sure | 01:49 |
| DawnFoster | and we were trying to organize it :) | 01:49 |
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| lbt | DawnFoster: FYI : http://wiki.meego.com/OBS/Community_OBS/Project_Areas | 01:50 |
| DawnFoster | ah, ok | 01:50 |
| lbt | these things are looking to move into Surrounds ... eg NFS isn't in MeeGo 'core' | 01:50 |
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| DawnFoster | lbt: but the page is probably still miscategorized? | 01:50 |
| lbt | yeah .. probably .. lessee | 01:51 |
| DawnFoster | and can be moved out of task forces | 01:51 |
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| * andyross submits an API change to Qt into the MeeGo 1.2 project and waits for someone to come after him with a knife... | 01:51 | |
| lbt | well.... Niels and I haven't stopped work on it | 01:51 |
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| * lbt glances at DawnFoster and notices how just having 250 not-really-MeeGo devices is bringing more developers to #meego ... how good for MeeGo is that eh? :D | 01:54 | |
| DawnFoster | :) | 01:54 |
| lbt | Jaffa: oi..... how come you haven't signed up at that ^^ wiki page | 01:54 |
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| antman8969 | very useful post you put together lbt | 02:04 |
| antman8969 | have any decisions been made when it comes to how to handle package maintainers of "ports" | 02:04 |
| lbt | no | 02:06 |
| lbt | so much stuff has been happening | 02:06 |
| antman8969 | so much progress or so much busy work that delays progress | 02:07 |
| lbt | I think we're beginning to see a more tangible base - 1.2 is out, we have more people with ExoPC and of course the N950 | 02:07 |
| lbt | both | 02:07 |
| lbt | this needs push and pull | 02:07 |
| lcuk | liqbase runs faster on my n900 than on n950 | 02:08 |
| lbt | when we have apps that need libraries... then we'll start to see the issues for real | 02:08 |
| lbt | hopefully having laid out a potential solution and set the foundations in place we'll be able to adapt | 02:08 |
| antman8969 | I've got two apps that don't need anything but qt, which are fine as is. But another that needs liboauth (like many social apps). Should I hold off on trying to | 02:09 |
| antman8969 | "port it" | 02:09 |
| antman8969 | again. New to the OBS, but it seems the structure resembles the extras system at a general level | 02:10 |
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| lbt | antman8969: no... do the work in your home: area | 02:13 |
| lbt | it works as a PPA | 02:13 |
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| lbt | you may want to create a little structure in there... maybe home:antman8969:libs[:testing] repos | 02:14 |
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| lbt | anyhow 00:14 here ... bed calls o/ all | 02:14 |
| antman8969 | i see | 02:14 |
| antman8969 | lol thanks | 02:14 |
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| antman8969 | hmm, just received an OBS account from lbt, but never chose a password myself. Is there a default one that is given out? | 02:18 |
| lbt | use your meego.com passwd ... sso ... right really going now | 02:20 |
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| antman8969 | there we go, thanks lbt | 02:21 |
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| Jaffa | lbt: Only just seen it | 02:31 |
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| timeless | andre__: *sigh* | 02:47 |
| timeless | i can't figure out if bug 14651 actually caused something useful to happen or not | 02:48 |
| MeeGoBot | Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14651 maj, Low, 1.2, xinyun.liu, NEW, XOrg TileScreenSaver double frees srcbits+mskbits when AllocARGBCursor()'s calloc() fails | 02:48 |
| timeless | the fix is dated April, but your upstreaming is dated May | 02:48 |
| timeless | and the committer is a nokian | 02:48 |
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| berndhs | how does one know the state of an application in the device program ? | 02:52 |
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| SpeedEvil | berndhs: Did you get email? | 02:53 |
| berndhs | SpeedEvil: no | 02:53 |
| SpeedEvil | http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Office/Community_device_program/Nokia | 02:53 |
| berndhs | this is for the tablet one, not the nokia one | 02:53 |
| SpeedEvil | oops | 02:53 |
| SpeedEvil | sorry | 02:53 |
| berndhs | i want to look up my application to see if I need to add info, correct spelling errors and whatnot | 02:54 |
| berndhs | but I can't even tell if I submitted something or not | 02:54 |
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| berndhs | ah there it is now, didn't show up couple days ago, now its there twice :) | 02:56 |
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| berndhs | oh well | 02:56 |
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| Termana | Morning | 03:09 |
| CosmoHill | yes, yes it is | 03:09 |
| berndhs | somewhere it is | 03:11 |
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| Love12 | Hi | 06:27 |
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| dm8tbr | muten gorgen | 07:36 |
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| ptman | forgive me my ignorance, but I've installed meego on my n900, and I have no idea how to reboot or halt the device | 07:48 |
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| dm8tbr | ptman: hold down power for ~10s | 07:51 |
| dm8tbr | ptman: it should shut down cleanly, if you hold a few seconds longer it will shut down hard | 07:51 |
| dm8tbr | ptman: screen needs to be unlocked ofc | 07:51 |
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| ptman | ah, I just didn't hold it long enough, at 5 seconds the screen just turned off, but it wasn't yet shutting down | 07:54 |
| ptman | dm8tbr, thank you | 07:55 |
| dm8tbr | ptman: yes it's a bit longer than maemo | 07:57 |
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| djszapi_ | X-Fade: Hi! Do you have a good idea how one could use the "osc" tool behind a Nokia proxy ? | 08:46 |
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| Kaadlajk | djszapi_: exporting https_proxy in the terminal should be enough | 08:49 |
| djszapi_ | Kaadlajk: with the same address we use internally for the http_proxy ? | 08:50 |
| Kaadlajk | djszapi_: yes | 08:51 |
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| tonberry_ | hi guys, i wana ask. what type of file format able to install in N950? | 10:46 |
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| lbt | tonberry_: rpm | 10:59 |
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| tonberry_ | can u show me the example to install rpm in x terminal mode? | 11:01 |
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| vvaltone | rpm -ivh filename.rpm | 11:01 |
| tonberry_ | theres not rpm existing in busybox | 11:03 |
| tonberry_ | n950 is running in busybox | 11:04 |
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| lpotter | n950 doesnt use rpm | 11:07 |
| eg81 | it deb based distro | 11:08 |
| tonberry_ | yeah.. i had no clue to install | 11:08 |
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| lbt | tonberry_: sorry I answered pre-coffee ... N950.... I'm in meego mode | 11:15 |
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| djszapi | Hi! What did I do wrong ? http://paste.kde.org/96829/ I would like to build a package locally by using "osc build... ". | 11:23 |
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| tonberry_ | anyone have n950 here? | 11:27 |
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| djszapi | yes | 11:28 |
| Stskeeps | tonberry_: #harmattan | 11:28 |
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| tonberry_ | he isn't on right? | 11:30 |
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| Stskeeps | err.. it's an irc channel | 11:32 |
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| tonberry_ | ops.. thx | 11:34 |
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| iekku | :) | 11:40 |
| tonberry_ | handling n950 is much more than n900 | 11:40 |
| tonberry_ | harder* | 11:41 |
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| iekku | and getting one is even harder.... | 11:46 |
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| jotik_work_ | yeah :( | 11:47 |
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| djszapi | Is there anybody who did not get, but applied for one ? | 11:47 |
| jotik_work_ | I applied to the LaunchPad programme. | 11:48 |
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| jotik_work_ | I'm not sure whether that's the same thing. | 11:48 |
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| tonberry_ | my company got me one, but i have no idea how 2 use it :( | 11:48 |
| Stskeeps | that's a bit depressing :P | 11:50 |
| slaine | mine shipped this morning | 11:50 |
| slaine | looking forward to it | 11:50 |
| slaine | Stskeeps: have a nice birthday ? | 11:50 |
| tonberry_ | lol... need help please? | 11:50 |
| Stskeeps | slaine: 4 thunderstorms during the day, 2000 houses in the region damaged in a mild cyclone, so yeah, pretty successfull ;) | 11:51 |
| slaine | You shouldn't have invited Thor over for beers, I warned you | 11:52 |
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| iekku | slaine, :DDDD | 11:55 |
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| * ramkrsna is back from the Intel Meego Pune event, It was more Intel App Up foo than meego :( | 12:02 | |
| Stskeeps | well, intel has gain income from their meego work somehow so that's fair | 12:03 |
| jotik_work_ | hmm... I wonder whether Intel has plans to develop handsets based on Meego... | 12:04 |
| Stskeeps | intel sells chips | 12:04 |
| Termana | the smokey ranch kind | 12:05 |
| slaine | They've already developed hardware reference designs that they're selling to ODM and Manufacturers | 12:06 |
| Termana | slaine, I think jotik_work_ is referring to a commercial offering from Intel. Which is probably not likely. | 12:07 |
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| slaine | Termana: nod, just pointing out what they have actually done | 12:08 |
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| tonberry_ | where's meego apps store at? | 12:11 |
| vvaltone | That's be Nokia Store on N950 I think | 12:12 |
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| Andy80 | morning :) | 12:12 |
| julienf | morning Andy80 | 12:12 |
| Andy80 | Elleo: the package was correctly generated ;) https://build.pub.meego.com/package/show?package=cutesoma&project=home%3Aandreagrandi | 12:12 |
| vvaltone | And you're infringing on Apple's 'App Store' trademark by asking for a MeeGo App Store ;P | 12:12 |
| Andy80 | hi Julien :) | 12:12 |
| * Termana files a lawsuit as Apple's lawyer against vvaltone for even mentioning App Store and for insinuated defamation. | 12:14 | |
| Termana | And if your thinking of releasing any products, hand them all over | 12:14 |
| vvaltone | I'm sure they'll soon start saying the Linux Kernel has copied code from Quartz ;P | 12:15 |
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| Andy80 | does the SDK (when you connect N950/N9 to PC with USB cable) lock the package manager in any way? I'm trying to install a package from terminal but I always get: RM680-22-6_PR_RM680:~# apt-get install cutesoma | 12:25 |
| Andy80 | E: Could not get lock /var/lib/dpkg/lock - open (11: Resource temporarily unavailable) | 12:25 |
| Andy80 | E: Unable to lock the administration directory (/var/lib/dpkg/), is another process using it? | 12:25 |
| Andy80 | any idea? | 12:25 |
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| Andy80 | uhm... and now Application Manager shows "no software installation" while before it displayed the packages installed | 12:28 |
| Andy80 | what went wrong? I tried to reboot but it didn't help | 12:28 |
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| Andy80 | ok, I deleted the /var/lib/dpkg/lock file. I tried to install my own package but it's broken: the application icon does not appear on application list and if I click it it does not start | 12:36 |
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| pebcak | Andy80 you could send the phone to me so I can look into it :P | 12:49 |
| Andy80 | :P | 12:49 |
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| djszapi | X-Fade: Harmattan XEN VM is not running again ? https://build.pub.meego.com/package/live_build_log?arch=armv7el&package=redland&project=home%3Adjszapi&repository=MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan | 12:49 |
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| lcuk | morning \o | 13:12 |
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| SpeedEvil | Perhaps. | 13:13 |
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| lcuk | MeeGoExperts, hi, did you get yourself an n950? | 13:39 |
| lcuk | we have a meego apps meeting today according to the irc schedule | 13:40 |
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| MeeGoExperts | Hi | 13:50 |
| MeeGoExperts | Living in Hope at the moment .......... | 13:50 |
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| Andy80 | lcuk: where? when? meeting... | 14:08 |
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| lcuk | Andy80, in #MeeGo-Meeting in a little while: | 14:13 |
| lcuk | http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo-Meeting_IRC_Schedule | 14:13 |
| lcuk | there are generally meetings for different areas of meego every day | 14:13 |
| lcuk | good to keep that list handy ;) | 14:14 |
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| Andy80 | lcuk: what are we going to talk about? | 14:17 |
| lcuk | you asked about meetings | 14:18 |
| lcuk | i told you about them :P | 14:18 |
| lcuk | X-Fade, what is on the agenda/where is the agenda for the apps meeting later? | 14:18 |
| lcuk | lbt too perhaps | 14:18 |
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| lbt | "why lbt should be stomped on for not doing BOSS" | 14:20 |
| * Stskeeps passes lbt the clone machine | 14:21 | |
| lbt | I'll take two | 14:21 |
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| lcuk | lbt, is there anything we can assist with | 14:26 |
| * lbt will have a think | 14:27 | |
| * dm8tbr waves friendly | 14:27 | |
| Andy80 | Elleo: ping me when you're here :) | 14:28 |
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| Elleo | Andy80: ping | 14:38 |
| Andy80 | Elleo: pong :P | 14:39 |
| Andy80 | Elleo: it looks like my Application Manager in N950 is a bit screwed up :\ | 14:40 |
| Elleo | oh? | 14:40 |
| Andy80 | Elleo: it doesn't show anything right now | 14:40 |
| Elleo | is dpkg locked? | 14:40 |
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| Andy80 | and... I've tried installing the package cutesoma from my OBS repository but it doesn't start. I only have a green icon on application list and it doesn't start. If I start it from the terminal it works. And last thing: I've removed the cutesoma package and tried to deploy it again using QtCreator: now it can run but the icon is not created in Application list... | 14:42 |
| Elleo | sounds like there might be something wrong with the .desktop file | 14:42 |
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| Andy80 | yep | 14:43 |
| Elleo | Andy80: just installed it and got the same issue, I replaced invoker with single-instance and it launches | 14:44 |
| Elleo | so the Exec line is now: Exec=/usr/bin/single-instance /opt/CuteSoma/bin/CuteSoma | 14:44 |
| Andy80 | you modified the .desktop? | 14:44 |
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| Elleo | yeah, just now on my n950 not in the package | 14:45 |
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| Elleo | and it seems that the icon isn't being installed as /usr/share/icons/hicolor/scalable/apps/CuteSoma.svg doesn't exist | 14:45 |
| Andy80 | uhmm ok I'll try to modify it... and what about the icon not appearing in applications anymore? | 14:45 |
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| Andy80 | oh :\ | 14:46 |
| Andy80 | really don't understand these things.. | 14:46 |
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| Elleo | Andy80: I think that's a bug in invoker, other people were complaining about it not behaving as expected too | 14:47 |
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| Elleo | e.g. --single-instance mode doesn't do anything on harmattan | 14:47 |
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| Elleo | /usr/bin/single-instance is what harmattan's create-project tool uses by default, so I guess that's the "correct" way on harmattan | 14:48 |
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| Andy80 | another mismatch between Scratchbox Harmattan and QtCreator templates :) | 14:49 |
| Elleo | for some reason qmake isn't putting anything about CuteSoma.svg into your makefile | 14:49 |
| Elleo | so I'm guessing there's something up with the qmake config for that file | 14:49 |
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| Elleo | ah yeah, I think you want to edit deployment.pri | 14:50 |
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| Elleo | and modify the icon install stuff | 14:51 |
| Elleo | to look for a .svg instead of a .png | 14:51 |
| Elleo | and to install it to ..../hicolor/scalable/apps instead of ..../hicolor/64x64/ | 14:51 |
| Andy80 | Elleo: line 96? https://github.com/andreagrandi/CuteSoma/blob/master/deployment.pri | 14:52 |
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| Elleo | yeah, 96 and 97 | 14:54 |
| Elleo | icon.files = $${TARGET}.png becomes icon.files = $${TARGET}.svg | 14:54 |
| Elleo | and icon.path = /usr/share/icons/hicolor/64x64/apps becomes icon.path = /usr/share/icons/hicolor/scalable/apps | 14:55 |
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| Andy80 | (wait phone....) | 14:58 |
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| matrixx | hmm, I changed my invoker command to use /usr/bin/single-instance, but I still get multiple instances of my app :( | 15:04 |
| Elleo | odd, I just get the one for mine | 15:04 |
| matrixx | hmm, it might be something to do with QtCreator | 15:04 |
| Elleo | from what I can tell single-instance makes a lock file containing a window id | 15:04 |
| Elleo | then if the lockfile exists it just brings that window id to the foreground | 15:04 |
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| matrixx | also the invoker --single-instance did the lock file for me, but it just ignored it | 15:05 |
| matrixx | and seems to be same with /usr/bin/single-instance | 15:05 |
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| Elleo | strange | 15:06 |
| matrixx | indeed | 15:06 |
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| Elleo | I think things certainly need to be made clearer interms of what's expected as the harmattan dev workflow | 15:06 |
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| Elleo | people doing things completely through qtcreator appear to be running into lots of little problems | 15:06 |
| matrixx | agreed | 15:07 |
| Elleo | whereas using create-project in the harmattan sdk has meant that everything appears to have gone pretty smoothly for me | 15:07 |
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| Andy80 | Elleo: I'm back... let me modify it | 15:26 |
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| Andy80 | Elleo: nothing to do :( something is broken with the deployment... | 15:31 |
| Andy80 | Elleo: usually when you run an application from QtCeatorm it's deployed on the device and you see the icon in the applications window. I cannot see mine anymore | 15:32 |
| lcuk | is there a QML Layout/Resize event available? | 15:32 |
| lcuk | so that the contents can be positioned accordingly | 15:32 |
| Andy80 | lcuk: yes and no | 15:33 |
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| Andy80 | lcuk: you mean you want a different layout if you're in portrait or landscape, right? | 15:33 |
| lcuk | yes | 15:33 |
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| Andy80 | lcuk: look at my ChannelPlayer.qml https://github.com/andreagrandi/CuteSoma/blob/master/qml/ChannelPlayer.qml | 15:34 |
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| Andy80 | lcuk: you'll see two items and a state... at the end... it works in this way: there are two layout and one is hidden when the other one is shown | 15:35 |
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| Andy80 | it works pretty fast | 15:36 |
| lcuk | speed is not the issue | 15:36 |
| lcuk | maintainability is! | 15:36 |
| lcuk | having to remember to make canges in 2 areas etc | 15:37 |
| lcuk | but that is perhaps the simplest mechanism I have seen | 15:37 |
| lcuk | changes * | 15:37 |
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| Andy80 | this way was suggested and used in some of the qt-components demo available on gitorious... can't remember their exact location, but I can assure that in my case it works fine. | 15:39 |
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| lcuk | Andy80, of course | 15:40 |
| lcuk | Andy80, that sort of thing could work to allow small/medium/large views of the same data | 15:41 |
| lcuk | choosing s/m/l algorithmically somewhere | 15:41 |
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| Elleo | Andy80: CuteSoma.svg isn't your icon, you appear to have a generic QT icon in that file, I think you probably want to replace it with CuteSoma_80x80.svg which is actually your Soma icon | 15:52 |
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| Andy80 | lcuk: anyway... it will get worse when you'll decide to port the application to MeeGo tablets, Maemo5 ecc... :) there are (at the moment) some differences in the "import...." lines and of course the UI you create for a 4'' is not the same you create for a 10'' tablet (at least I hope it's not) | 15:52 |
| Andy80 | Elleo: you're right... but before it was working... this still doesn't fix my problem with icon not deployed by QtCreator... | 15:53 |
| lcuk | Andy80, :) actually the 4" UI will upscale better | 15:53 |
| lcuk | than a UI designed for large form factor | 15:53 |
| Elleo | Andy80: no idea about qtcreator deployment I'm afraid, it's not something I use | 15:53 |
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| Elleo | the OBS package I just built from after making those modifications works fine though (other than having the wrong icon) | 15:54 |
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| Elleo | s/from// | 15:54 |
| infobot | Elleo meant: the OBS package I just built after making those modifications works fine though (other than having the wrong icon) | 15:54 |
| lcuk | Andy80, http://liqbase.net/liq.meego.r&d.n900.and.ideapad.fullspeed.20110220_011.jpg | 15:54 |
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| Andy80 | Elleo: uff... I've renamed the 180x180 icon to CuteSoma.svg and removed it from qrc file, but when I rebuild the package now I get this: :-1: error: No rule to make target `../CuteSoma/CuteSoma_80x80.svg', needed by `qrc_res.cpp'. Stop. | 16:00 |
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| Andy80 | sorry, the 80x80 I mean | 16:02 |
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| Andy80 | noooooooooooo | 16:03 |
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| Elleo | sounds like you just need to change any references to CuteSoma_80x80.svg to CuteSoma.svg in your res.qrc | 16:03 |
| Andy80 | fuc******* QtCreator!!! it overwrites my .svg with default Qt icon!!! | 16:03 |
| Andy80 | :( | 16:03 |
| Elleo | heh | 16:03 |
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| Elleo | in that case you could keep CuteSoma_80x80.svg and change your deployment file to install that one instead | 16:04 |
| Elleo | and modify the .desktop to use it | 16:04 |
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| Andy80 | damn it | 16:04 |
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| Andy80 | Elleo: ok, I've restored it from a backup but I still don't understand who was referencing it... I opened the .qrc file with a text editor and there was any trace of it | 16:06 |
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| Elleo | Andy80: I see it in there | 16:06 |
| Elleo | <file>CuteSoma_80x80.svg</file> | 16:07 |
| Elleo | but it sounds like if qtcreator is messing up cutesoma.svg it might be best to leave that one alone and use CuteSoma_80x80.svg as your application icon | 16:07 |
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| Andy80 | Elleo: you're watching the old copy on GitHub or did you hack my PC :D ? | 16:09 |
| Elleo | Andy80: that's from the source file I downloaded the other day from your OBS when trying to help fix stuff | 16:10 |
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| Elleo | http://repo.pub.meego.com/home:/elleo/Harmattan/armel/ <-- has a newly built package with correct icon and .desktop file with the source files being here: https://build.pub.meego.com/package/files?package=cutesoma&project=home%3Aelleo | 16:10 |
| Elleo | so it works for OBS | 16:10 |
| Elleo | but I have no idea what might be going wrong with qtcreator's deployment thing | 16:11 |
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| Andy80 | now the icon is deployed again by QtCreator... bah :\ | 16:17 |
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| Andy80 | I should concentrate more on coding the application and leave packaging when it's 1.0 | 16:17 |
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| timeless | lbt: woohoo, it looks like whatever you did worked! | 16:47 |
| timeless | at least, a whole bunch of things say <updated 3 hours ago> and have content :) | 16:48 |
| timeless | e.g. http://mxr.meego.com/qt.gitorious.org/source/devdays-graphicssystem-plugin/ | 16:49 |
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| timeless | given that qt updated, i'd hope the other roots will w/in a day or so | 16:49 |
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| gabrbedd | berndhs: It's the anal-retentive versioning scheme... that way they're listed in version order when you `ls` a folder of tarballs. | 16:56 |
| gabrbedd | :-) | 16:56 |
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| berndhs | i thought it was more of a disclaimer :) | 16:58 |
| gabrbedd | bergie: :-) | 16:58 |
| gabrbedd | berndhs: :-) | 16:59 |
| gabrbedd | (sorry, bergie... didn't mean to wake you) | 16:59 |
| bergie | no prob | 17:00 |
| gabrbedd | berndhs: honestly, it's just a versioning scheme that will accommodate a whole lot of R&D releases. After a 1.0 release I'll switch to something more sane. | 17:00 |
| berndhs | what is contextkit ? is it like dbus only better ? | 17:00 |
| berndhs | gabrbedd: all my things are version 0.something | 17:01 |
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| gabrbedd | berndhs: yeah, mine are all 0.%03d :-p | 17:01 |
| kavacha | hi, I am logged in to a tabled by ssh, how can I get my UI application to run on the device ? | 17:04 |
| lcuk | lbt what time is the apps meeting? | 17:04 |
| kavacha | starting it from the cmdline | 17:04 |
| kavacha | I keep getting can not connect to DISPLAY | 17:04 |
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| gabrbedd | kavacha: DISPLAY=:0.0 ./my_program | 17:11 |
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| gabrbedd | kavacha: you can also do `DISPLAY=:0.0` and then 'export DISPLAY` to keep from having to type it every time. | 17:11 |
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| kavacha | gabrbedd: thanks , that is what I thought but I get "can not open display: :0.0" | 17:13 |
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| kavacha | gabrbedd: logged in with "ssh root@device" , should I use -X -c options even though I do not want to export display ? | 17:14 |
| kavacha | "export display" as in to another machine | 17:14 |
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| gabrbedd | kavacha: why did you log in as root? | 17:16 |
| gabrbedd | kavacha: follow this: | 17:16 |
| kavacha | good question :) | 17:16 |
| gabrbedd | ssh gabriel@remote.host | 17:16 |
| gabrbedd | (then on remote host) | 17:16 |
| gabrbedd | DISPLAY=:0.0 ./my_program | 17:17 |
| gabrbedd | done. | 17:17 |
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| kavacha | gabrbedd: Thanks !!! that works | 17:19 |
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| gabrbedd | kavacha: you're welcome! | 17:22 |
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| thebootroo | hello | 17:46 |
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| thebootroo | harmattan qml components sucks and i have to use them ? nothing has been done to ease up the use of qwidgets | 17:47 |
| andre__ | harmattan is in #harmattan ;-) | 17:47 |
| timeless | andre__++ | 17:47 |
| thebootroo | i can't even design the app qml in qtcreator since it shows nothing | 17:47 |
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| lcuk | thebootroo, can you make some screenshots showing how your app currently looks on n950 | 18:09 |
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| lcuk | perhaps it would help to try to see if qwidget bugs in harmattan can be fixed | 18:09 |
| thebootroo | look nothing because it can't run | 18:09 |
| lcuk | what do you mean can't run? | 18:10 |
| lcuk | i heard qwidget worked | 18:10 |
| thebootroo | not even support autoorientation | 18:10 |
| lcuk | but was not themed correctly | 18:10 |
| lcuk | that is a minor bug | 18:10 |
| thebootroo | nor flicking in qscrollarea | 18:10 |
| thebootroo | nor theming | 18:10 |
| lcuk | i still don't know what you have spent the last hour arguing about | 18:10 |
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| lcuk | thebootroo, so you have had your app actually on the n950? | 18:11 |
| lcuk | and discovered these issues? | 18:11 |
| lcuk | perhaps following it will be better - file specific bugs against things noticed | 18:11 |
| thebootroo | lcuk: yes | 18:11 |
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| lcuk | and see if you and others who have qwidget requirements can see about getting things fixed | 18:11 |
| thebootroo | lcuk: can't wait to these problems to be fiwed | 18:12 |
| thebootroo | *fixed | 18:12 |
| thebootroo | i already filled bugs which were not even read | 18:12 |
| lcuk | if you are so strongly against qml and your app otherwise works fine on all other platforms, fixing up the qwidget bugs is feasible | 18:12 |
| lcuk | what bugs | 18:12 |
| lcuk | and more importantly, what app | 18:12 |
| thebootroo | bugs about qml not supporting kinda border-left: 1px solid black like Qwidget+CSS did | 18:13 |
| lcuk | does your app work on n900-ce ? meego netbook? meego tablet build? | 18:13 |
| lcuk | are there only issues on n950? | 18:13 |
| * lcuk bangs head | 18:13 | |
| thebootroo | lcuk: i didn't dev on n900-ce | 18:13 |
| lcuk | thebootroo, what about bugs against qwidget problems themselves | 18:13 |
| thebootroo | lcuk: but did not have these problems on N900 maemo5 | 18:13 |
| lcuk | if you just wanted to use your app on the device | 18:13 |
| lcuk | file bugs against the issues | 18:13 |
| thebootroo | lcuk: i not tried because i know they will not be fixed soon, if ever they are one day | 18:14 |
| lcuk | not meta issues with another (QML) framework | 18:14 |
| thebootroo | in harmattan i don't any winodw flag supported to auto rotate the app | 18:14 |
| thebootroo | the qApp->desktop()->resized() event is not emitted | 18:15 |
| lcuk | thebootroo, did you know that Qt is based on Oppen Governance? That means that decisions about where to focus effort can come from the community. if enough developers come forward with specific qwidget requirements then developers might start to help. and a tweak here and there might be all it takes | 18:15 |
| thebootroo | lcuk: what i see it that the 2 most important bug report i made were not fixed, one for now 2 years, and the other from 1 month, did get not answer | 18:16 |
| lcuk | which bugs - please give links | 18:16 |
| thebootroo | so i cant base my app on the eventuallity the bug may be fixed one day | 18:16 |
| * timeless applauds lcuk 's patience | 18:16 | |
| lcuk | you can file bugs and more importantly, talk about them and follow up on them | 18:16 |
| thebootroo | the oldest :http://bugreports.qt.nokia.com/browse/QTBUG-643 | 18:17 |
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| thebootroo | will probably not be fixed since qt devs are focused on QMl | 18:17 |
| lcuk | timeless, :) not really, just trying to work through something many folks will come across | 18:17 |
| lcuk | qwidgets are important for existing apps | 18:17 |
| lcuk | and not everyone will want qml | 18:17 |
| thebootroo | the newest, which blocks me for doing even simple good looking apps in plain QML : http://bugreports.qt.nokia.com/browse/QTBUG-20282 | 18:17 |
| * timeless shrugs | 18:17 | |
| lcuk | thebootroo, the first bug is not a bug report, it is a remark. the second relates to QML which your apps as of today do not use | 18:19 |
| thebootroo | what ? | 18:19 |
| thebootroo | not | 18:19 |
| thebootroo | my apps in QWidget are fully styled using CSS, not pixmaps, so i need QML support this if i want to port them to qml | 18:19 |
| thebootroo | so that's a TRUE problem for me | 18:20 |
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| lcuk | what you requested is a feature request | 18:20 |
| thebootroo | yes | 18:20 |
| lcuk | but I have not seen any bugs from you about qwidget support issues | 18:20 |
| thebootroo | i don't wanna put tons of pixmaps every where to support rounded corner on one corner only or two sides border | 18:20 |
| * lcuk goes for food anyway | 18:21 | |
| lcuk | bbiab | 18:21 |
| thebootroo | lcuk: i said you i didn't made bugs reports for qwidget because it's not even supported officially so it will not be fixed soon, even never | 18:21 |
| * lcuk orders a pizza for timeless whilst he is out | 18:21 | |
| timeless | ooh, sounds useful | 18:21 |
| andre__ | I take one too! | 18:21 |
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| timeless | otoh, an apartment would be better | 18:21 |
| thebootroo | take me some heroin to resist to the sucide idea that comes to me when i try to do something using qml | 18:22 |
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| thebootroo | QML gives me to felling to loose all i find to be the advantages of qt : layouts, css styling, strong set of qwidgets, easily extendable by subclassing, strong events controls (even more in the graphicsview), not need to do some crappy mapping to pass things between C++ and JS, speed.... etc | 18:24 |
| thebootroo | and overall : portability : write once, run everywhere, one code, mutiple plateforms | 18:24 |
| timeless | thebootroo: such complaints will not get you anywhere useful | 18:26 |
| timeless | you come off as a troll | 18:26 |
| timeless | if you have specific problems with *QWidget* list them | 18:26 |
| timeless | (preferably w/ bug links) | 18:26 |
| timeless | if there are certain things you find lacking in QML, that's unfortunate, but complaining about them in general isn't going somewhere useful | 18:26 |
| thebootroo | i attach a lot of importance to UX appearance details, alignments, size policy, smart positionning, styling, and i can't easily achieve that in qml because even for trivial things i'm lbocked by the lack of functionnalities of the QML language wich is too young : IMO they are pushing it too fast, not seeing its not mature enough for all use, just a subpart.... | 18:26 |
| thebootroo | timeless: i tried to find a solution to dev my apps properly which will not need ages to wait for bugfixes | 18:27 |
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| thebootroo | timeless: i thought rewriting my apps in graphicsview would solve the issue but not because the graphics view is in a qmainwindow which is a qwidget an i not well suported on harmattan (basically it only support drawing, but no event support) | 18:28 |
| thebootroo | its a step back from maemo5 | 18:29 |
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| thebootroo | in maaemo 5 we had autorotation (with both widget flags and signals) and scrollarea derived classes had automattically the kinetic scrolling | 18:29 |
| thebootroo | and i don't talk about well themed widgets | 18:30 |
| thebootroo | i have nothing of that in qml in harmattan | 18:30 |
| * timeless ponders | 18:30 | |
| thebootroo | and the designer is 10 times slower than qtdesigner | 18:30 |
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| timeless | i'd suggest you try writing your app in html+js :) | 18:31 |
| thebootroo | timeless: nope, i want pure C++ for my apps | 18:31 |
| thebootroo | i didn't learn C++ to finally develop JS apps for desktop | 18:31 |
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| thebootroo | i find web development crappy, its not for doing it where i can do real programming | 18:32 |
| thebootroo | what i want is a simple C++ api to build advanced ui, running without modifications on any mobile and desktop plateform supporting qt | 18:33 |
| thebootroo | and since QML needs components differents on each plateform its obviously not the way to go, and more it don't have a simple C++ api to build ui, it can only take handwritten .qml files and do a lot of mapping to connect it to the c++ code | 18:35 |
| thebootroo | so would take me ages to port my apps | 18:35 |
| thebootroo | oh and my custom classe, that were not even optimized, redraw at least 4 times faster than a simple plain QML app with no pixmap, and not use 50% of my core 2 duo as QML does | 18:38 |
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| thebootroo | i cant even image the poor performance of the final app, with 6 pages, listview of thousands of items, icons, webcontents... | 18:38 |
| thebootroo | *imagine | 18:39 |
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| andyross | thebootroo: pretty sure that 17-line rant would have been more appropriate for meego-dev. :) | 18:49 |
| timeless | andyross: i disagree | 18:50 |
| thebootroo | andyross: stop complaining about irc channels, i would understand that if we where hundreds speaking the same time, but thats not the case, i'm quite alone posting so no need to move (i will not have 10 channels opened same time) | 18:50 |
| timeless | more people would probably have suffered if he sent it there :) | 18:50 |
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| andyross | Not sure about what the complaint is. If you want a C++ API... you have one. | 18:51 |
| timeless | the main complaints seem to be a lack of <whatever>Events | 18:51 |
| timeless | for QWidget based impls | 18:52 |
| timeless | and a lack of support for certain edge theming in QML | 18:52 |
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| berndhs | the complaint seems to be that there are no QWidgets worth using on harmattan or meego | 18:52 |
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| timeless | personally, my guess is that if you're trying to color only a single edge, you're probably trying to make a bad ui | 18:52 |
| timeless | berndhs: that's probably not wrong either :) | 18:53 |
| TSCHAKeee | thebootroo: you're sounding like a c*nt. | 18:53 |
| TSCHAKeee | seriously. | 18:53 |
| berndhs | yes he is correct about that | 18:53 |
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| TSCHAKeee | you're feeling all butt hurt because, oh crap, the platform paradigm changed | 18:53 |
| timeless | TSCHAKeee: to be fair.. | 18:53 |
| timeless | imagine someone spends a year developing a product | 18:53 |
| thebootroo | timeless: why coloring a single edge would mean bad ui ? | 18:53 |
| berndhs | TSCHAKeee: lets not be abusive to people with an unpopular point of view | 18:53 |
| thebootroo | timeless: i never do bad ui, i'm designer before being developer | 18:54 |
| timeless | and then they're told that the next platform will give them an app that will barely work | 18:54 |
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| timeless | thebootroo: i don't suppose you could post pictures (screen shots) of your app? | 18:54 |
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| timeless | or they can try and rewrite their app with NewShinyWidgetFrameWork (tm) which is missing features they used from OldPreviouslyWorkingFramework | 18:54 |
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| timeless | it's a fairly typical complaint | 18:55 |
| timeless | and not at all unreasonable | 18:55 |
| timeless | but vendors spend most of their time trying to come up with ways to cause this problem for their ecosystems | 18:55 |
| timeless | or at least .. certain vendors do | 18:55 |
| timeless | how else can they sell an upgrade-treadmill if they don't? :) | 18:55 |
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| thebootroo | TSCHAKeee: learn real programming and then come back tell my lessons: you are talking to someone who did tons of complex yet beautiful and ergonomic ui, with a real programming language, and who can't do the same with the newly proposed / imposed technology and so he wonders how he will be able to port his apps | 18:55 |
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| timeless | If you don't like that model, you should be using <Windows>, <Java>, or <HTML> | 18:56 |
| TSCHAKeee | thebootroo: i've been programming for almost 30 years | 18:56 |
| TSCHAKeee | thebootroo: the only constant i've ever found, is change. | 18:56 |
| thebootroo | TSCHAKeee: change is good want its not imposed when its not even mature | 18:56 |
| thebootroo | i found qml has some good points but its far from complete for the use i need | 18:56 |
| TSCHAKeee | so build the components to fill in the gaps, or move to another platform. | 18:57 |
| TSCHAKeee | i know | 18:57 |
| TSCHAKeee | it hurts | 18:57 |
| TSCHAKeee | but those are your choices. | 18:57 |
| TSCHAKeee | i know that Qt screwed up here | 18:57 |
| TSCHAKeee | oh well, there is a third option | 18:57 |
| TSCHAKeee | add the missing stuff back into Qt or as a side library. | 18:57 |
| TSCHAKeee | i've spent almost a decade writing the most advanced smart home platform out there. and now we're switching platforms for UI. We are | 18:59 |
| TSCHAKeee | experiencing similar hurts. | 18:59 |
| thebootroo | TSCHAKeee: i looking to how i could re build my own components over qml but when i read ". QML does not use Layouts, as the Qt layouts do not mix well with animated and fluid UIs, so the geometry interface is one of the main differences. When writing QML elements, you allow the designers to place their bounding rectangle using absolute geometry, bindings or anchors (all setup for you when you inherit QDeclarativeItem) and you | 18:59 |
| thebootroo | do not use layouts or size hints" i wonder how i will ever achieve correct placement of hundreds of items if they don't know about sizepolicies and layouts | 18:59 |
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| thebootroo | i'm not against changing or rewriting but only if the final product is at least equal quality to the first | 19:00 |
| TSCHAKeee | rarely does that happen in reality. | 19:00 |
| thebootroo | i've rewritten my toolkit first in .net, then in GTK+, then in QWidget and finally in QGraphicsItems | 19:01 |
| TSCHAKeee | you trade stuff...and yes.. in this case, it's imposed from on high. i'm sorry. | 19:01 |
| * TSCHAKeee gives thebootroo a hug. | 19:01 | |
| thebootroo | but i can't figure out how i will write same quality with qML now | 19:01 |
| thebootroo | gimme base class for sizable and layoutable qml items and i will rewrite my classes without a hurt | 19:02 |
| andyross | FWIW: QML really isn't aimed at an interface with "hundreds of items". The market is touch devices, with small screens and very large interaction targets. | 19:02 |
| thebootroo | oh and something where i cant easily implement qpainter events | 19:02 |
| TSCHAKeee | and that...too. | 19:02 |
| andyross | Also: your task apparently isn't "rewriting an app", it's porting a toolkit. Well, yeah, that's going to have metaphor skew. | 19:02 |
| berndhs | andyross: yes indeed, and that could become a problem for qt-components-desktop | 19:03 |
| thebootroo | andyross: if qml can not handle more than 50 items, hwo can we build correct mobile apps, for example feed reader | 19:03 |
| TSCHAKeee | i've done a data grid with 20,000 items in it in qml | 19:03 |
| TSCHAKeee | (reading a C++ data source) | 19:04 |
| TSCHAKeee | it handles that just fine. | 19:04 |
| andyross | There I don't disagree at all. Honestly there's been way too much interest in "moving away" from the old widget paradigm. For a ton of desktop tasks, it still works really well. Would you seriously write, I dunno, a photo editor or machine control UI in QML? | 19:04 |
| thebootroo | using 90% of your Quad core and a SLI graphics with cuda and opengl ? | 19:04 |
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| TSCHAKeee | thebootroo: no, I'm testing on an Archos 9 (GMA500) | 19:04 |
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| TSCHAKeee | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbGtYPaRoBw | 19:05 |
| thebootroo | TSCHAKeee: ok so give me a basis for a Qwidget like declarative item (i mean with c++ bindings for implementing paining, sizing, and layouting) and i will see if a cant port my toolkit | 19:05 |
| berndhs | aside from all this UI stuff, what's a good way to make a chroot environment to cross-build meego parts ? not applications, but UX parts | 19:07 |
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| andyross | You can use an arm qemu I suspect. Never tried; pretty much all of my work is on intel (though I still build in a vm, not a chroot). | 19:10 |
| berndhs | i dont want arm, i want x86 | 19:11 |
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| berndhs | i need a convenient build environment, the host is similar enough | 19:11 |
| berndhs | host kernel is 2.6.38, gcc is 4.6 | 19:11 |
| berndhs | but host gcc shouldnt even matter | 19:12 |
| andyross | Lots of stuff will build on the host just fine. Though some of the dependencies get hairy. I find the vm is just a lot simpler (though kind of slow if you're building in an sshfs-mounted directory from the host filesystem). | 19:12 |
| berndhs | yeah but I only have 2GB on the host | 19:12 |
| berndhs | "only" | 19:12 |
| andyross | OK, that's a killer. Buy more. I have an 8G laptop which runs 2-3 VMs at a time comfortably. | 19:13 |
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| berndhs | i suppose I could just copy over the file system from my meego machine and chroot into the copy :) | 19:13 |
| andyross | That works for some stuff, but not everything. Check the mic-chroot implementation. It's a giant voodoo mess, and largely the reason I use a vm. | 19:14 |
| berndhs | people went to the moon with 64K, and now 2G isn't enough to program a phone, that's how pathetic we have become | 19:14 |
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| andyross | The openSUSE "build" tool (part of OBS) might be something else to look at -- it builds a chroot by default out of an RPM directory. | 19:14 |
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| berndhs | yes i thought about OBS, have to see if | 19:15 |
| berndhs | see if "build" works right on my host | 19:15 |
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| andyross | I know I've used OBS chroots to run client apps in the past. It's possible you can do a quick build of something, then chroot in and zypper install whatever you want. | 19:16 |
| berndhs | maybe i should downgrade to fedora-14, the mic tools work there :) | 19:16 |
| berndhs | i dont actually want to run anything apps in teh chroot, just build stuff | 19:17 |
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| berndhs | the run the images on another machine | 19:18 |
| andyross | Yeah. And it verifiably works because it's the default mode for OBS. It'll just require some hackery. | 19:18 |
| berndhs | yes OBS-type build host is what I want, but not as heavy | 19:18 |
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| andyross | Which is sort of the holy grail. There was a mild flame war on meego-dev last week about that. Setting up OBS as a whole is a mess, but if you're willing to manually mirror a few repo directories, "build" might be a good choice. | 19:19 |
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| berndhs | if I had any money I would just make a separate headless meego build host | 19:21 |
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| seif | hey guys is there a meego-touch python api for harmattan | 20:06 |
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| luist | can anyone help me to package smart for meego? | 20:19 |
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| thiago | why do you want smart? Isn't zypper enough? | 20:25 |
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| Noobmonk3y | lcuk, are you around? :) | 20:36 |
| lcuk | Noobmonk3y, sortof, wassup | 20:37 |
| Noobmonk3y | please can i ask you a very very noobish question :) (As per usual!) | 20:37 |
| Noobmonk3y | i'm in terminal on the n950 - trying to get the ip address, i used to use ifconfig, am i wrong? | 20:37 |
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| lcuk | Noobmonk3y, as root | 20:38 |
| Noobmonk3y | yup | 20:38 |
| Elleo | Noobmonk3y: either `/sbin/ifconfig` or just `ip a` both work fine | 20:39 |
| Noobmonk3y | ahhhh ty | 20:39 |
| Noobmonk3y | all working :) | 20:39 |
| lcuk | Noobmonk3y, have you seen the qt info thingy by achipa? | 20:40 |
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| Noobmonk3y | yes! | 20:43 |
| Noobmonk3y | tis v cool! :) :) saw it on the qy homepage :) | 20:43 |
| Noobmonk3y | well that wasnt hard... 5 minutes after starting up qt... basic healthcheck running on the n950.... | 20:43 |
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| Noobmonk3y | brb | 20:48 |
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| luist | thiago: i know but i have an app that requires smart... | 21:36 |
| thiago | luist: make it use zypper or packagekit | 21:37 |
| luist | thiago: cant do that... | 21:38 |
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| luist | thiago: does zypper have a python API? | 21:38 |
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| thiago | luist: does it matter? Launch a process. | 21:42 |
| luist | thiago: ok you are not trying to help | 21:43 |
| thiago | I am | 21:43 |
| luist | can anyone help me to package smart for meego? | 21:43 |
| thiago | I'm suggesting an easier alternative | 21:43 |
| luist | thiago: im not going to remake a whole application with smart code inside it just because you like zypper better | 21:43 |
| thiago | I don't | 21:45 |
| thiago | I like smart | 21:45 |
| thiago | but MeeGo uses zypper | 21:45 |
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| luist | thiago: but i use both smart and zypper | 21:49 |
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| thiago | luist: on end-user devices, smart won't be installed. Even if you cause it to be installed, its databases will be empty. | 21:57 |
| thiago | you'll need to make the user download the package list first. | 21:57 |
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| lcuk | https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13084 | 22:02 |
| MeeGoBot | Bug 13084 maj, Medium, ---, carsten, ASSI, [n900] Horizontal tearing with xvimagesink | 22:02 |
| lcuk | is also in use on meego n900-de and harmattan | 22:03 |
| luist | thiago: i know how it works... | 22:03 |
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| luist | thiago: you dont even know what do i need smart for | 22:04 |
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| thiago | luist: there can be only one reason: dealing with packages on the system. Either searching, or installing or removing. | 22:10 |
| thiago | I urge you to reconsider and use packagekit | 22:10 |
| luist | thiago: yeah im going to use packagekit with smart backend | 22:11 |
| * lcuk has liqcalendar on n9 | 22:11 | |
| luist | thiago: at least it doesnt reach the dbus limit and freezes garage | 22:12 |
| luist | how do i get autoconf, automake and kdelibs3 for meego? | 22:15 |
| luist | is there any site where i can search for unofficial meego packages? | 22:17 |
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| berndhs | luist: build.pub.meego.com look at people's home: projects | 22:17 |
| luist | berndhs: yeah but i have to search 1 by 1? | 22:18 |
| berndhs | luist: google for interesting_package site:build.pub.meego.com | 22:19 |
| luist | ok :) | 22:21 |
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| Elleo | /52/52 | 22:26 |
| Noobmonk3y | Am I being a dumbass? whats the usable window size on the n950? 800 * 480? | 22:27 |
| thiago | luist: kdelibs3? you won't get that | 22:29 |
| luist | why doest smart need that -.- | 22:29 |
| lcuk | Noobmonk3y, afaik 854*480 | 22:29 |
| thiago | luist: autoconf and automake, you need scratchbox for Harmattan, create your own image for MeeGo | 22:29 |
| lcuk | for fullscreen | 22:29 |
| lcuk | i cant remember how big the other bar is | 22:29 |
| lcuk | frals, was it 24pix? | 22:29 |
| Noobmonk3y | :) | 22:29 |
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| Noobmonk3y | ty luck, testing 854 480 :) | 22:32 |
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| berndhs | reassuring news on TV: a bunch of bubbly teenagers like the Harry Potter movie, and som Country musicians are recording a christmas album | 22:47 |
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| sivang | berndhs: ? | 22:51 |
| berndhs | just in case people were dispairing with all their problems | 22:51 |
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| sivang | berndhs: lol | 22:52 |
| CosmoHill | the last time I saw harry potter was the last time I was with someone :( | 22:52 |
| sivang | CosmoHill: you mean, a girl? | 22:52 |
| CosmoHill | yeah...let's go with that | 22:53 |
| * CosmoHill goes looking for that elusive undo button | 22:53 | |
| berndhs | back to the problems: dual head, how do I talk meego-netbook into that | 22:53 |
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| iekku | berndhs, :D | 22:59 |
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| sivang | I'm trying to find my coaxial cables for my DAW monitors... | 23:02 |
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| sivang | much harder problem. Cannot record without them they were pricy too.. | 23:03 |
| Noobmonk3y | has anyone apart from jaffa created apps for the n950 yet? ie other repos etc? | 23:08 |
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| javispedro | Noobmonk3y: https://build.pub.meego.com/project/list_public ;) | 23:12 |
| Noobmonk3y | thank you javispedro :) | 23:12 |
| javispedro | uncheck "hide home projects", as currently all packages are inside home projects.. | 23:12 |
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| pabs3 | why would OBS fail to build a Debian source package (format v3.0) with this message: dpkg-source: error: unrecognized file for a v2.0 source package: redland_1.0.13-3.diff.gz | 23:31 |
| pabs3 | (the format is 3.0 but the error says 2.0) | 23:31 |
| pabs3 | https://build.pub.meego.com/package/files?package=redland&project=home%3Adjszapi | 23:31 |
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| gabrbedd | pabs3: your .dsc file looks like a `control` file. The .dsc file is supposed to have the filenames of the source tarballs and the checksums. | 23:51 |
| sivang | hey gabrbedd :) | 23:51 |
| sivang | gabrbedd: how's stuff? | 23:51 |
| gabrbedd | sivang: hey sivan! how are you? | 23:52 |
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| gabrbedd | pabs3: strike that... looks like OBS is trying to do something clever. | 23:52 |
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| sivang | gabrbedd: very good, and getting even better :) | 23:53 |
| sivang | gabrbedd: lot's of good stuff hapenning lately. | 23:53 |
| pabs3 | gabrbedd: weird definition of clever :) v2.0 format was never meant to be used, only 1.0 and 3.0 | 23:53 |
| gabrbedd | pabs3: Still... you don't have a file called `redland_1.0.13-3.diff.gz` -- you have debian.tar.gz | 23:54 |
| gabrbedd | pabs3: maybe try renaming the file? | 23:54 |
| pabs3 | right, so why is it looking for that then? | 23:54 |
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| gabrbedd | sivang: that's awesom! | 23:57 |
| gabrbedd | awesome | 23:57 |
| gabrbedd | ...gotta go, though. :-) | 23:57 |
| pabs3 | gabrbedd: the person who's package it is tells me the Files section can be left out for OBS: http://ldn.linuxfoundation.org/article/opensuse-build-system-building-deb-packages | 23:57 |
| gabrbedd | pabs3: by 'clever' I mean the way that it automatically tacks that stuff on the end of your .dsc file. | 23:57 |
| gabrbedd | pabs3: sometimes OBS is too clever for my own good. :-p | 23:57 |
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