| peterbjornx | i just hope my n8 sells for a good price so i can get another n900 or save for a n9 | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
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| Damion3 | ali1234: been on Google+ ? | 00:00 |
| ali1234 | no | 00:00 |
| ali1234 | i dunno how you "go on it" | 00:00 |
| Damion3 | you get invited to somebodies circle I think | 00:01 |
| ali1234 | ah | 00:01 |
| ali1234 | well, i don't use social networks, so i'm not really interested | 00:01 |
| pierce | someone sent me a google+ invite last night, but when I went to click it this morning is was 404 :-( | 00:01 |
| smoku | invited.... viral marketing 101 | 00:01 |
| Damion3 | I found it hard to use, but then I can't use FB either | 00:01 |
| pierce | ali1234: you are on a social network right now :-) | 00:02 |
| ali1234 | really? where do i get my FREE SMILEYS? | 00:02 |
| Damion3 | I'm 36 ffs it's not irc enough ;) | 00:02 |
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| peterbjornx | lol | 00:03 |
| ali1234 | i was talking the other day about how i don't like all this "autosuggest" stuff | 00:03 |
| peterbjornx | if it was up to me, "social network sites" wouldnt have been invented | 00:03 |
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| peterbjornx | i mean, its like a voluntary give-up-your-privacy system | 00:04 |
| ali1234 | not just that | 00:04 |
| Damion3 | I've been socialising online for many years thens youngen uostarts and their facebook piss me off | 00:04 |
| ali1234 | you also are being shielded from seeing anything you don't like | 00:04 |
| ali1234 | you'll never be challenged on facebook | 00:04 |
| ali1234 | not unless 4chan is raiding itor something | 00:04 |
| peterbjornx | lol | 00:04 |
| smoku | peterbjornx, if it's voluntary, what's the problem then? | 00:04 |
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| Damion3 | whah was wrong with ytalk, write, finger, telnet chatmud.net 9999, ircii ... ? | 00:05 |
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| peterbjornx | well, from my personal experience, too many people join because its popular and dont think about the whole privacy thing | 00:05 |
| pierce | Damion3: harder to manage photo album | 00:05 |
| Damion3 | sorry for all the typos, still getting used to n950 keyboard | 00:05 |
| ali1234 | the difference between irc and facebook and twitter is simple | 00:05 |
| ali1234 | on irc you block people you don't like | 00:05 |
| smoku | ali1234, what's wrong with shielding? i do not like to see things i do not like to see | 00:05 |
| ali1234 | on social networks you friend the people you do like | 00:05 |
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| Damion3 | ali1234: twitter is worryingly similar to irc, what with #channels you can follow | 00:06 |
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| ali1234 | Damion3: i "use" twitter through my instant messaging client so it is basically identical for me | 00:07 |
| ali1234 | but of course i don't actually use twitter | 00:07 |
| Damion3 | my wife follows people and tells me what's up in the world | 00:07 |
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| peterbjornx | i dislike the idea of posting what you are doing at any given moment to the internet | 00:07 |
| ali1234 | that is, i don't personally know any of the people i follow and i never post anything | 00:07 |
| * Damion3 also isn't on it | 00:07 | |
| ali1234 | i just use it to get news really | 00:08 |
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| peterbjornx | and for news i check rss feeds,front pages and news sites like google news | 00:08 |
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| Damion3 | peterbjornx: I do that sometimes on irc | 00:08 |
| Damion3 | and buzz at work | 00:08 |
| ali1234 | i don't mean news news, i mean like "we posted a new video today" for people that don't use youtube | 00:08 |
| peterbjornx | well, i think theres a difference in saying what you are doing in a chat room that keeping a "micro web log | 00:09 |
| ali1234 | smoku: what is wrong with shielding is you'll never see anything that makes you question your beliefs EVER | 00:10 |
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| peterbjornx | sometimes i see tweets like : bored, going to msn for a bit.. | 00:10 |
| berndhs | I just don't want to pollute the web with "I had salad with bacon bits for lunch" | 00:10 |
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| Damion3 | peterbjornx: so buzz and your followers is better there. and the replacement Google+ | 00:11 |
| smoku | ali1234, humans do not like their beliefs questioned | 00:11 |
| ali1234 | so? | 00:11 |
| ali1234 | humans should never have to do anything that they don't like? | 00:11 |
| peterbjornx | i think the best web developments in the past (+/-)10 years have been: youtube, wikipedia, the advanced discussion fora and image upload sites | 00:12 |
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| Damion3 | smoku: huh? most scientific people love their beliefs to be questioned | 00:12 |
| peterbjornx | i think it is important to a healthy mind to have your beleifs questioned | 00:12 |
| ali1234 | i think so too | 00:12 |
| RST38h | normal humans should keep humans who do not like their beliefs questioned under constant supervision, preferably in captivity | 00:12 |
| RST38h | [and sometimes match them against each other, for lulz] | 00:13 |
| andre__ | peterbjornx: to represent the broader interwebs user base, I guess porn is covered by the youtube category? ;-) | 00:13 |
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| peterbjornx | if your beleifs dont get questioned, you will lose your grip of reality eventually | 00:13 |
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| berndhs | it is also very useful to know the beliefs of people you don't agree with | 00:13 |
| smoku | Damion3, scientists are not typical people | 00:13 |
| Damion3 | smoku: which is a pity | 00:13 |
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| peterbjornx | well, i didnt include that but well i think i'd not group it under youtube | 00:13 |
| peterbjornx | i was thinking more of sharing useful videos without the hassle of setting up a streaming server | 00:14 |
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| andre__ | it's all video streaming... :) | 00:14 |
| Damion3 | google is full of engineers. That's a pretty nice environment | 00:14 |
| smoku | ali1234, humans do not like to do things they do not like. shortcuting to "they shouldn't" is lazy thinking ;P | 00:14 |
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| peterbjornx | i think most intelligent people think like scientists nowadays | 00:15 |
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| peterbjornx | atleast the people i know | 00:15 |
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| RST38h | christian scientists? =) | 00:15 |
| * RST38h cackles | 00:15 | |
| peterbjornx | like to hear new information even if that is opposite to what they think | 00:15 |
| * peterbjornx doesnt get the joke | 00:15 | |
| berndhs | there's also a difference between intellectually believing something and emotionally believing it | 00:16 |
| smoku | berndhs, huh? care to explain the difference? | 00:16 |
| berndhs | pretty much everyone knows they will die, but the under-30 crowd doesn't really believe it | 00:16 |
| peterbjornx | true, id like to beleive in a "heaven" emotionally but intellectually i think the idea is ridiculous | 00:16 |
| Damion3 | my daughter has just turned 5, and although I've told her about magic stuff like fairies, she has _already_ sussed that it's just a bit of a laugh and not really true, they don't actually exist. I told her that some silly people believe in a perportadly magic jew called jebus and she can't see why they'd believe in magic things | 00:17 |
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| berndhs | right, but many scientists believe it, and they are definetely not silly people | 00:18 |
| smoku | peterbjornx, so you would like heaven to be, but you do not believe in it. | 00:18 |
| smoku | you like the idea only | 00:18 |
| dm8tbr | smoku: btw - my pony just grew up, might be a different ride now ;) | 00:19 |
| Myrtti | how random topic. | 00:19 |
| Myrtti | Nonetheless, thank you for it. | 00:19 |
| peterbjornx | true too | 00:19 |
| smoku | berndhs, but they do redefine heaven from "place up there with angels and stuff", to "a place the immortal soul goes after death, if such soul do exist" | 00:20 |
| smoku | and that's a difference | 00:20 |
| peterbjornx | i ment the latter too | 00:20 |
| berndhs | they believe in something that can't be proven or disproven | 00:20 |
| peterbjornx | but im the kind of person that doesnt beleive in anything besides the physical world we live in | 00:20 |
| berndhs | peterbjornx: that's perfedtly reasonable, but doesn't make a different belief silly | 00:21 |
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| smoku | berndhs, that's the whole point of belief. doesn't matter if based on emotions of intelectual hunch | 00:21 |
| peterbjornx | i dont think other beleifs are | 00:22 |
| peterbjornx | its just my personal opinion | 00:22 |
| berndhs | my point is that people can intellectually know that something is exceedingly unlikely and still emotionally believe the opposite | 00:22 |
| peterbjornx | yes | 00:22 |
| peterbjornx | which is a good thing, because otherwise lots of people would get depressed | 00:22 |
| smoku | peterbjornx, do you believe in love? | 00:22 |
| peterbjornx | yes | 00:22 |
| smoku | peterbjornx, is love physical then? | 00:23 |
| smoku | and I do not mean sex | 00:23 |
| Stskeeps|holiday | religion and pink ponies to #meego-bar pleas | 00:23 |
| Stskeeps|holiday | e | 00:23 |
| peterbjornx | ok | 00:23 |
| berndhs | Stskeeps|holiday: no this is about marketing :P | 00:23 |
| smoku | Stskeeps|holiday, I would shut up and suggest the same if we were interrupting real discussion | 00:23 |
| smoku | but it's kind of dead here at the time anyway ;P | 00:23 |
| Stskeeps|holiday | a lot of different people, nationalities, religions, etc here who has to work together :P | 00:24 |
| peterbjornx | well, lets move to meego-bar for the sake of regulations | 00:24 |
| berndhs | some of the best marketing exploits exactly the things we are talking about | 00:24 |
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| peterbjornx | smoku, cause you are not in meego-bar, i do, but i see it (intellectually) as a physical process in the nervous system | 00:27 |
| smoku | i'm trying to join | 00:27 |
| smoku | but it seems freenode has no love for me today ;-) | 00:27 |
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| Damion3 | believing in silly things like magic, which can easily be proved are silly, is silly. | 00:30 |
| berndhs | is the tablet UX source in some identifiable repository ? gitorious has MeeGo-Handset US, Netbook UX, IVI UX, and just plain UX, btu not tablet | 00:30 |
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| smoku | berndhs, "@MeeGo Tablet" and "@MeeGo Tablet Applications" patterns in 1.2 repo | 00:31 |
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| bash` | hi everyone | 00:39 |
| bash` | I'm trying to install meego on my n900's eMMC, but the de-installer fails | 00:39 |
| bash` | the flashing goes ok, but the n900 display shows "starting netcat for initial connection check" | 00:40 |
| bash` | then nothing else.. | 00:40 |
| bash` | I already waited ~40 minutes...any help? | 00:40 |
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| Damion3 | not tried it myself | 00:44 |
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| Damion3 | presumably networking isn't working | 00:44 |
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| Damion3 | nc supports a timeout, you'd assume it would use it | 00:45 |
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| rafael2k | I'm in the second batch of the N950! | 00:46 |
| rafael2k | iuhuuuul! | 00:46 |
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| Damion3 | hat does that mean? | 00:46 |
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| Damion3 | w!! | 00:46 |
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| Damion3 | oh someone from nokia emailed me asking for clarification of my dev project, I'll go use a real keyboard for that reply :) | 00:47 |
| ieatlint | just tell them you want an n950 to develop proprietary applications and to review the device | 00:48 |
| ieatlint | worked for me | 00:48 |
| Damion3 | I'm using one now on loan from a colleage, she mentioned nokia were practially throwing them at us | 00:49 |
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| rafael2k | this is good news | 00:50 |
| ieatlint | should be interesting to see what comes out of the device giveaways | 00:51 |
| ieatlint | hopefully some awesomeness :) | 00:51 |
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| bash` | Damion3: hi, I'm using the timoph's installer | 00:54 |
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| Damion3 | I emailed the developer @nokia.com whose name was down against meego-terminal thanking him saying it turned a device which essentailly a brick to me, in to something magically useful. his response was guarded but with obvious undertones of depression at the nokia managment and strategy | 00:54 |
| bash` | I guess I should re-create the initrd, but I don't know how | 00:54 |
| Damion3 | bash`: is it looking for wifi? | 00:55 |
| Damion3 | or usbnet or something | 00:56 |
| bash` | yes usb0 | 00:56 |
| Damion3 | you have dhcp daemon on the other end? | 00:56 |
| bash` | I set up the ip addresses | 00:56 |
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| bash` | Damion3: I can ping it... | 00:59 |
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| Damion3 | you need somebody who has done this to help ideally, I'm just using unixy knowledge | 01:01 |
| bash` | ok, anyway this: | 01:01 |
| bash` | dd if=mg-handset-armv7nhl-n900-ce-stable-1.2.0.90.5.20110621.5.DE.2011-06-23.1-mmcblk0p.raw bs=256k | nc 192.168.2.15 500 | 01:02 |
| bash` | do nothing | 01:02 |
| bash` | this means the n900 doesn't accept the connection? | 01:02 |
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| bash` | 192.168.2.15 500 (isakmp): Connection refused | 01:02 |
| bash` | yep.. | 01:03 |
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| Damion3 | is the n900 running nc -p 500 -l > /dev/mmcblk?? something? | 01:04 |
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| Damion3 | that will take an awfully long time with no progress | 01:05 |
| Damion3 | no progress shown I mean | 01:05 |
| Damion3 | so maybe you just need to wait longer? | 01:05 |
| bash` | /bin/nc -l -p 500 -e /bin/sh | 01:06 |
| bash` | Damion3: that's what the n900 is running | 01:06 |
| Damion3 | sh eh? | 01:06 |
| bash` | yes | 01:06 |
| Damion3 | maybe that .raw feeds shell commands in | 01:06 |
| Damion3 | how large is it? | 01:07 |
| bash` | the raw file? | 01:07 |
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| Damion3 | yeah | 01:07 |
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| bash` | 381MB | 01:07 |
| Damion3 | also if you're getting connection refused something clearly is wrong if that nc command is running as it should be fine | 01:07 |
| bash` | sorry 3.6GB | 01:07 |
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| Damion3 | you can test with telnet | 01:08 |
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| bash` | but I should edit the initrd, right? | 01:08 |
| Damion3 | 3.6GB? try waiting long enough for 3.6GB to transfer over usbnet | 01:08 |
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| Ulf_ | Hi | 01:09 |
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| bash` | $ echo "raw" | nc -v 192.168.2.15 500 | 01:09 |
| bash` | 192.168.2.15 500 (isakmp): Connection refused | 01:09 |
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| CosmoHill | f**king hicups, where do they come from | 01:13 |
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| Damion3 | you're using a flashed kernel and initrd that leaves you with a netcat process to dump an image to emcc? | 01:14 |
| bash` | yes | 01:15 |
| Damion3 | 3.6GB will take an age to copy | 01:15 |
| Damion3 | sorry I've not bothered doing this myself I'm just generically familiar with linux installations | 01:15 |
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| bash` | ok | 01:16 |
| bash` | anyway I'm using these scripts https://meego.gitorious.org/meego-quality-assurance/meego-ai/trees/master | 01:16 |
| Damion3 | I have to go anyway and you're safer asking somebody who knows | 01:16 |
| bash` | no problem! | 01:16 |
| bash` | thanks anyway Damion3 | 01:16 |
| Damion3 | that nc on the n900 you said was running, was that in ps? cos if that were running, I can't see how you're getting conn. refused | 01:17 |
| Damion3 | that webpage's readme confirms my assumptions | 01:17 |
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| Damion3 | you certain you've set up the usbnet IPs on phone and pc correctly? | 01:18 |
| Damion3 | jeez it's 11pm and i've not eaten, sorry have to go :) | 01:18 |
| bash` | yep I can ping it | 01:18 |
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| bash` | I don't know if it is running because I can't root in the n900 now | 01:19 |
| bash` | but the next line in the initrd.init starts nc | 01:19 |
| bash` | the n900 still says "starting netcat for initial connection check" | 01:19 |
| smoku | gotta love rpm toolchain - it even corrects my spelling :D | 01:20 |
| smoku | RPMLINT report: xorg-x11-drv-imx.armv7l: W: spelling-error-in-description C accelleration acceleration | 01:20 |
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| bash` | timoph: I need to regenerate the initrd for the de-installer, can you help me on this when you are available? thanks | 01:42 |
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| peterbjornx | initrd on n900 :O | 01:45 |
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| peterbjornx | doesnt the n900 boot straight from rootfs? | 01:45 |
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| Termana | morning | 02:35 |
| berndhs | afternoon | 02:36 |
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| Coke | Hi | 04:54 |
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| Jay_BEE | hello. | 05:29 |
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| timoph | bash`afk: mount the initrd, copy the dir somewhere else, umount, edit and recreate the initrd from the edited copy. Something like steps 4, 5 and 8 from http://ioctl.org/unix/debian/x4100 (sorry I'm in a hurry and couldn't find a better link) | 07:57 |
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| achipa | ooh... class 10 card... let's see how much that helps... | 08:03 |
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| khertan__ | Morning | 08:56 |
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| lcuk | morning #meego \o | 11:24 |
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| thiago | good morning lcuk | 11:26 |
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| lcuk | thiago, do you know anything about updated tablet packages? | 11:32 |
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| ieatlint | can anyone confirm if the n950 requires a regular sim card or a microsim card? | 11:33 |
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| thiago | lcuk: nope | 11:34 |
| thiago | ieatlint: regular | 11:34 |
| ieatlint | cool, thanks | 11:35 |
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| lcuk | thiago, you mentioned last night that n950 has 10 finger touch | 12:08 |
| lcuk | do the touch reports reduce in frequency as more fingers added | 12:09 |
| Ans5i | i didn't know it had fingers | 12:09 |
| lcuk | on the ideapad, the touch sensor interleaves reports | 12:09 |
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| thiago | lcuk: I don't know | 12:09 |
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| lcuk | so that if you use 2 fingers there are only half as many mouse reports | 12:09 |
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| lcuk | shall be tested then | 12:09 |
| vvaltone | not 11 finger touch? I'm disappointed | 12:10 |
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| vvaltone | what updated tablet packages? | 12:10 |
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| thiago | lcuk: I don't think so | 12:10 |
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| lcuk | thiago, :D good stuff | 12:11 |
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| vvaltone | you mean devel:ux tablet packages? | 12:11 |
| lcuk | vvaltone, in a mail last night I saw it mentioned | 12:11 |
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| BestiaH | Hello! | 12:12 |
| thiago | lcuk: it's proper hardware with proper drivers, I think | 12:12 |
| lcuk | thiago, the ideapad is proper hardware with proper drivers too! | 12:12 |
| vvaltone | lcuk, a ml mail? | 12:12 |
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| lcuk | yes vvaltone on meego-packaging | 12:13 |
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| lcuk | http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-packaging/2011-June/247753.html | 12:13 |
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| lcuk | it was araujo talking about the maliit packaging after meegotouch removal | 12:14 |
| BestiaH | Hi | 12:15 |
| BestiaH | I have a little question | 12:15 |
| BestiaH | about meego for netbooks... | 12:15 |
| lcuk | but I was wondering where the tablet stuff was published since developers are focusing upon it | 12:15 |
| niala | hello | 12:15 |
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| BestiaH | it is possible to turn off calendar and task from Myzone panel__ | 12:15 |
| BestiaH | ? | 12:16 |
| vvaltone | lcuk, unless it's in a image, it's either on build.meego.com/download.meego.com or the git repos I guess | 12:16 |
| BestiaH | Ok, I found it ;) | 12:18 |
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| lcuk | morning lardman | 12:27 |
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| lardman | morning lcuk | 12:28 |
| lardman | how's everyone? | 12:28 |
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| MSM1 | Found an old windows mobile device today :) | 12:29 |
| lcuk | peaceful :) Luke went to his Prom last night, Finn is sleeping happily - he managed 5 hours last night | 12:30 |
| lardman | cool :) | 12:30 |
| * lcuk even found time to play football again with Jake :D | 12:30 | |
| lardman | Just bought a cot | 12:31 |
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| lcuk | we have a great one from John Lewis | 12:31 |
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| lardman | I've no idea where Holly bought this one, looks nice though | 12:33 |
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| lardman | sjgadsby: ping | 12:48 |
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| lardman | sjgadsby: re your wallet idea, what do you do by way of storage of the codes? I'm happy to write a plugin for mBarcode to allow you to scan the cards and save to your db so that users can do everything on the device. | 12:55 |
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| * lardman has been reading some of the DDP entries | 12:58 | |
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| SpeedEvil | Is there a list? | 13:01 |
| SpeedEvil | Oh - just for approved | 13:01 |
| lardman | yeah | 13:01 |
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| lcuk | lardman, where is the list? | 13:07 |
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| lardman | just the standard list here: http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Office/Community_device_program/Nokia | 13:08 |
| lcuk | Venemo, your observation about meego uxes is just because they are not yet ready and are just being formulated and evolved | 13:08 |
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| Venemo | lcuk, sure. that is why I say the word "yet" when I talk about them :) | 13:09 |
| Venemo | lcuk, I have great hopes that one day Intel's UX will be usable on phone screen sizes | 13:09 |
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| niala | ahhh if i was a coder ..... :( | 13:10 |
| alterego | pfft | 13:10 |
| alterego | I don't really like the meego-ux-components | 13:10 |
| alterego | But meh | 13:10 |
| alterego | :) | 13:10 |
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| lcuk | on the Nokia Developer site, is there any way to know where on the site I see my Launchpad details and even https://www.developer.nokia.com/Profile/premium_registration.xhtml | 13:38 |
| lcuk | I filled out the form but cannot find any mention of it on my developer profile so wondering | 13:38 |
| seif_ | hey guys | 13:38 |
| seif_ | where can i find quim gil? | 13:38 |
| seif_ | any1 here from nokia | 13:39 |
| sandst1 | seif_: look for a big stack of n950 applications, and tons of emails. i bet his somewhere in between | 13:39 |
| thiago | seif_: qgil is sleeping right now | 13:39 |
| seif_ | sandst1, well i got accepted | 13:39 |
| hiemanshu | lcuk: go to setting, on the right there is developer profile | 13:39 |
| hiemanshu | settings* | 13:39 |
| seif_ | but the issue is i cant get into | 13:39 |
| seif_ | https://www.developer.nokia.com/Profile/Join_Program.xhtml?programName=Launchpad%20for%20individuals | 13:39 |
| seif_ | it tells me | 13:39 |
| hiemanshu | lcuk: that is the page | 13:39 |
| seif_ | There is an existing membership application already for this program. The applicant will be notified by e-mail once the membership application has been reviewed. | 13:39 |
| hiemanshu | lcuk: https://www.developer.nokia.com/Profile/premium_profile.xhtml | 13:39 |
| sandst1 | seif_: well that means you've already applied to Launchpad before | 13:40 |
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| seif_ | yeah | 13:40 |
| seif_ | so how do i continue | 13:40 |
| seif_ | where do i send my "ID" too | 13:40 |
| seif_ | to? | 13:40 |
| lcuk | hiemanshu, ok thanks, so if it says file not found it means I did not complete it | 13:40 |
| seif_ | sandst1, ^ | 13:40 |
| thiago | seif_: you need to talk to someone from Nokia. This channel can't help you... | 13:40 |
| hiemanshu | lcuk: well yes | 13:41 |
| seif_ | thiago, or should i create a new account ? | 13:41 |
| sandst1 | seif_: Reply to the ACCEPTED mail you got from quim with your ID | 13:41 |
| sandst1 | seif_: and about Launchpad, quoting Quim from MeeGo forums: "Don't get nervous about Launchpad now. I'm sending your usernames to Nokia Developer as part of this meego.com DDP, and this puts you in the fast lane." | 13:41 |
| hiemanshu | seif_: go to https://www.developer.nokia.com/Profile/premium_profile.xhtml, look for the AID-******* something on the left side, reply to qgil with that and your unsername | 13:41 |
| hiemanshu | username* | 13:41 |
| hiemanshu | seif_: and then wait | 13:42 |
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| lcuk | ahh yes hiemanshu thanks | 13:43 |
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| seif_ | hiemanshu, done and done | 13:49 |
| seif_ | thanks alot | 13:49 |
| seif_ | :) | 13:49 |
| Damion3 | he emailed me yesterday and I regret sending such a verbose email now you point out that he's probably very busy | 13:50 |
| hiemanshu | even my application wasn't really verbose, instead I had soemthing working and people testing it already for the N9/N950 | 13:50 |
| Damion3 | I probably should have just said yes I'll open source the app I'm working on rather that a continued sucking up email with a description of all the projects I might be able to work on :-/ | 13:50 |
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| alterego | I just said, "These projects I'm porting from M5", "This is the stuff I've done for maemo", "This is what I do for meego", kthxbye | 13:56 |
| alterego | Mine was very short | 13:56 |
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| lcuk | alterego, morning \o | 14:00 |
| alterego | Hello :) | 14:01 |
| alterego | How are you today lcuk ? | 14:01 |
| Venemo | lcuk, how's the new baby? :) | 14:02 |
| lcuk | alterego, Venemo - good but tired! | 14:03 |
| alterego | :) | 14:03 |
| Venemo | lcuk :) | 14:04 |
| hiemanshu | alterego: yup, about the same here | 14:06 |
| hiemanshu | lcuk: pics or it didn't happen :P | 14:06 |
| * hiemanshu runs | 14:06 | |
| alterego | Think I might do some chores, bbiab | 14:08 |
| Venemo | lcuk, I got so lucky :) it turned out that many people had the same idea as myself for Harmattan, so we began to collaborate and brainstorm about it together | 14:09 |
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| lcuk | Venemo, :D good thing | 14:09 |
| lcuk | where is this collaboration happening? | 14:10 |
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| Venemo | lcuk, http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=3711 | 14:10 |
| lcuk | Venemo, I have seen many transportation ideas | 14:10 |
| hiemanshu | Venemo: maybe you can add India to it, google maps already does it though | 14:11 |
| lcuk | one of the first things I needed in liqbase was a map of the Berlin metro | 14:11 |
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| lcuk | Venemo, nicely laid out pages | 14:23 |
| Venemo | lcuk, what do you mean? | 14:23 |
| lcuk | your meego profile pages and harmattanplans | 14:25 |
| Venemo | ah, that :) | 14:25 |
| Venemo | thank you lcuk :) | 14:26 |
| Venemo | what do you think about the contents of them? | 14:26 |
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| lcuk | Venemo, great actually! | 14:32 |
| Venemo | thank you lcuk :) | 14:34 |
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| Venemo | Jaffa, I'd be interested to hear, how would you apply this terminology to the context of the transport app? http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=24246&postcount=23 | 14:52 |
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| pabs3 | Venemo: transport app eh? Would it be able to use that format that google got public transport providers to output? would be nice to not need to go to the web to find public transport routes | 14:55 |
| Venemo | pabs3, sure, if someone implements a provider that reads from google's web service | 14:56 |
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| pabs3 | Venemo: I think you misunderstand. the data is exported on the web by the public transport authorities. I was wondering if your app would consume that data and do routing based on it | 14:57 |
| pabs3 | http://code.google.com/transit/spec/transit_feed_specification.html | 14:58 |
| Venemo | pabs3, yeah, you misunderstood too | 14:58 |
| pabs3 | http://code.google.com/p/googletransitdatafeed/wiki/PublicFeeds | 14:58 |
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| pabs3 | oh? | 14:58 |
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| Venemo | pabs3, the app will have an abstract structure and could consume any feed/webservice for which someone writes an implementation (be it Google or other) | 14:59 |
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| Venemo | pabs3, this feed you gave links to looks nice, so I may look into getting it there too :) | 14:59 |
| pabs3 | so do you plan to it leave the routing up to the web service? or do it in the app? | 15:00 |
| pabs3 | cool :) | 15:00 |
| Venemo | I don't have specific plans for routing, yet | 15:00 |
| Venemo | the app is still on the sketching board, so any ideas are welcome :) | 15:00 |
| Venemo | we aim for a simple UI, eg. the user says that "i want to go from here to there" and the app displays whatever results it can find. | 15:01 |
| Venemo | routing is a good idea | 15:01 |
| pabs3 | ok. I'd definitely like support for downloading/caching GTFS feeds and routing based on that | 15:01 |
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| pabs3 | and maybe discover of those feeds via that wiki page | 15:02 |
| pabs3 | s/discover/discovery/ | 15:02 |
| infobot | pabs3 meant: and maybe discovery of those feeds via that wiki page | 15:02 |
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| Venemo | pabs3, why don't you add this idea to the thread? | 15:02 |
| pabs3 | will do | 15:02 |
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| * Venemo is in the process of making a wiki page for the app | 15:03 | |
| Venemo | also, the goal is to make whatever web service(s) we use transparent to the end user | 15:03 |
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| pabs3 | Venemo: added a post | 15:05 |
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| Venemo | thank you pabs3 :) | 15:07 |
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| * pabs3 guesses there isn't enough data in openstreetmap for this sort of thing | 15:08 | |
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| Venemo | pabs3, I'm planning on using the Qt Mobility maps API | 15:09 |
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| pabs3 | ok | 15:10 |
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| Venemo | lcuk, what's your opinion on http://wiki.meego.com/TransportApp/UserExperience ? | 15:22 |
| lcuk | Venemo, hard to read because image is large and my screen only sends over slow data, hold on | 15:23 |
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| lcuk | Venemo, the wireframe specified has already a number of people in different countries collaborating as you say | 15:24 |
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| Venemo | lcuk, well, none of those people have started thinking GUI yet. | 15:25 |
| lcuk | things like live bus positions are very related to which country/city is being used | 15:25 |
| Venemo | lcuk, so I decided to put together a sketch and put it up for discussion | 15:25 |
| lcuk | indeed :) sketching is always good | 15:25 |
| Venemo | read http://wiki.meego.com/TransportApp#Under_the_hood if you're interested in how we're going to deal with many different web services | 15:25 |
| Venemo | the sketch itself is very basic and contains the features which could be used as the basis for the first milestone | 15:28 |
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| Venemo | let's see what the others say | 15:28 |
| Venemo | also, let's see how serious are they about this project | 15:29 |
| jonwil | wow, a public transport app for MeeGo, that sounds GREAT | 15:30 |
| jonwil | especially once someone (e,.g. me) backports it to Fremantle :) | 15:30 |
| Venemo | jonwil, I don't see why we couldn't target Fremantle as well from start | 15:30 |
| jonwil | sounds GREAT | 15:31 |
| Venemo | of course, any contribution is welcome :) | 15:31 |
| jonwil | What I need is an app that can consume google transit data and do routing on it | 15:31 |
| jonwil | That would make my life GREAT | 15:31 |
| Venemo | nah, I'm going to get some luch, brb :) | 15:31 |
| jonwil | as my transit operator publishes GTFS data | 15:31 |
| lcuk | wow the n900-ce has nice repsosiveness again :D | 15:31 |
| Venemo | jonwil, http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=3711&page=4 and http://wiki.meego.com/TransportApp | 15:31 |
| Tronic | N9 will wipe the floor with iPhone 5. | 15:32 |
| Tronic | I've been testing N950 and the device just rocks. Sure, there are a few regressions from N900, but still it works fluently, looks great and so totally pwns any existing phones... | 15:33 |
| Tronic | Weighs much less than N900 and is much thinner even though it has qwerty and same battery capacity. The display (LCD) has good contrast ratio and my only gripe is that it has capacitive rather than resistive touch screen. | 15:34 |
| Tronic | Of course Elop could sabotage it. Wrong public statements about the device or lack of marketing could make it fail. | 15:36 |
| kavacha | Tronic: like the fact that he killed the project and went with windows :( | 15:36 |
| Tronic | Technically he didn't, even though we know he did in practice (but nothing that couldn't be reversed yet). | 15:37 |
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| Tronic | I only wonder why the analysts keep being so wrong, keeping their eyes on WP7 only. That system is a complete and utter failure. It could barely compete with the first iPhone. | 15:38 |
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| Tronic | I doubt that Mango manages to bring it that much forward. | 15:38 |
| slaine | With all that Android revenue, WP7 has a bright future ;) | 15:39 |
| Tronic | E.g. considering http://html5test.com/ Mango's browser gets raped by all the other mobile browsers while N950 (N9) leads very clearly. | 15:39 |
| RST38h | Mango renders web correctly while the rest renders it with mistakes! | 15:41 |
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| thiago | Tronic: grob & qtwebkit developers thank you | 15:45 |
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| alterego | Hey DawnFoster | 15:52 |
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| DawnFoster | hey alterego | 15:58 |
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| lcuk | morning DawnFoster :) | 15:59 |
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| DawnFoster | hey lcuk | 16:00 |
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| slaine | morning Damion3 | 16:00 |
| slaine | d'oh | 16:00 |
| slaine | curst you tab completion | 16:01 |
| slaine | offs | 16:01 |
| * slaine tries again | 16:01 | |
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| slaine | Morning DawnFoster | 16:01 |
| DawnFoster | :) | 16:01 |
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| Damion3 | slaine: morning | 16:03 |
| slaine | :) | 16:03 |
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| Damion3 | oh | 16:05 |
| * Damion3 feels neglected now | 16:06 | |
| Damion3 | I was somebodies tab complete mistake | 16:06 |
| slaine | Damion3: aren't we all | 16:06 |
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| TonyPercy | I think neglected is better than being sat on a broken down bus in rural Cambs. :-) | 16:09 |
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| sjgadsby | lardman: I haven't gotten as far as storing anything yet as I'm just learning Qt. I'll take a look at mBarcode. | 16:20 |
| lardman | sjgadsby: just a thought for how users can populate your app's database using the device only | 16:20 |
| sjgadsby | lardman: I that's my hope. If I can shake this sinus infection, I'll be trying to get some coding done this weekend, and I'll look at mBarcode then. Right now, my head is in a thick fog though. | 16:22 |
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| lardman | np, well I can do the mBarcode stuff, write a plugin etc. that will pass the data across | 16:22 |
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| lardman | anyway hope you're feeling better soon! :) | 16:22 |
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| lcuk | which Qt api would be best to use to check a website for updates? | 16:34 |
| lcuk | ie to keep data in sync | 16:34 |
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| Venemo | lcuk, depends. what would be the purpose of such a thing? | 16:35 |
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| lcuk | diary sync | 16:36 |
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| lcuk | to let me write entries on one device and have them arrive on the other | 16:36 |
| lcuk | house->mobile etc | 16:36 |
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| Venemo | mhm | 16:37 |
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| Venemo | so you have a web service with which you can sync all them? | 16:37 |
| lcuk | yes | 16:37 |
| lcuk | i created that a couple of years ago | 16:37 |
| Venemo | see the QtNetwork module and the QNetworkAccessManager class | 16:37 |
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| lcuk | thanks | 16:38 |
| Venemo | QNetworkAccessManager can do GET and POST and other HTTP operations | 16:38 |
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| lcuk | yeah Venemo I am reading now \o | 16:39 |
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| Venemo | lcuk, if you tell me more about what kind of web service it is, I could help you more :) | 16:40 |
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| lcuk | Venemo, qt build of liqcalendar | 16:40 |
| Venemo | I'm interested in the web service | 16:41 |
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| lcuk | Venemo, it was something I started to setup a long time ago http://liqbase.net/liqbase_net_preview.png | 16:43 |
| Venemo | nice | 16:44 |
| lcuk | but my skills at development were poor and I did not know how to progress it | 16:44 |
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| lcuk | the pieces are all there though and will be usable to get sync for calendar diary etc working across maemo meego symbian devices :) | 16:45 |
| * lcuk also considered a html5 web sketch editor too | 16:46 | |
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| lcuk | so that windows phone could be included :) | 16:46 |
| Damion3 | lcuk: you did liqtorch? | 16:46 |
| lcuk | Damion3, :) yes | 16:46 |
| Damion3 | I have a line added to the shell wrapper that starts it which runs a sudo echo 255 in to /sys something to make the screen bright | 16:47 |
| Damion3 | you might want it | 16:47 |
| Damion3 | but more importantly can you get rid of the midway screen with the green button? I only need to start the app and quit the app. | 16:47 |
| lcuk | Damion3, of course, but I never needed more than what was there | 16:48 |
| lcuk | of course that would be possible :) | 16:48 |
| lcuk | Damion3, on my ideapad it lights up the entire room! | 16:48 |
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| Damion3 | I was going to try and do it with just spawning an osso-xterm with all white text | 16:51 |
| Damion3 | but your app was the easiest way rto get a fully plain white full screen | 16:52 |
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| Damion3 | you need to be able to sudo echo 255 >/sys/class/backlight/acx565akm/brightness | 16:52 |
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| Damion3 | probably want to read what it was before. Annoyingly this means having to edit the sudo stuff in your .deb to handle it. Come to think of it it's probably possible using dbus to do it properly. | 16:54 |
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| lcuk | Damion3, it would indeed be better to use the dbus api | 17:02 |
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| Damion3 | if it's exposed via that | 17:04 |
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| Damion3 | ooooh CONGRATULATIONS! | 17:04 |
| lcuk | heh | 17:04 |
| lcuk | thank you | 17:04 |
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| Damion3 | sorry I mean me | 17:05 |
| Damion3 | in that I have an email with that wording in it :) | 17:06 |
| * lcuk has been hearing that a lot last few days | 17:06 | |
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| dantti | hi, is it possible to install meego on any kind of tablet with an arm processor? is there a hw list on the site (I couldn't find)? | 17:14 |
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| lcuk | dantti, http://wiki.meego.com/Devices | 17:15 |
| dm8tbr | dantti: best supported is the n900 which is not exactly a tablet... | 17:15 |
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| lcuk | bbiab | 17:16 |
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| dm8tbr | dantti: then there are some builds floating around for various devices. archos tablets with TI3430 and TI3630. Tegra tablets. nothing is officially supported in any way though | 17:16 |
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| dantti | dm8tbr: do you know dealextreme? is there some cheap tablet that can run it? | 17:16 |
| dantti | I have a client that would probably buy some tablets to run my app, which is made in qt so afaik meego would be best over android... | 17:18 |
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| dm8tbr | errrrr, no | 17:19 |
| thiago | dantti: select a hardware and then do the work to make it run | 17:19 |
| dantti | hey thiago, well I have no idea how to make it work on different archs, is it too hard ? | 17:21 |
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| thiago | I don't know either | 17:22 |
| pabs3 | dantti: also check matthew garret's tablet GPL compliance list, otherwise drivers may be problematic | 17:22 |
| thiago | it's easier if you have support from the manufacturer | 17:22 |
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| dantti | pabs3: where do I find that? | 17:23 |
| pabs3 | http://www.codon.org.uk/~mjg59/android_tablets/ | 17:23 |
| dantti | thanks | 17:25 |
| hiemanshu | is the wiki login problem a known issue? | 17:25 |
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| noobmonk3y | urghhhhh realisation... 69 people... 18 devices :( | 17:38 |
| SpeedEvil | :/ | 17:38 |
| SpeedEvil | I've asked for a reconsideration of my refusal on the grounds that they might not have used the most up to date version of my project page. But it's looking unlikely. | 17:39 |
| SpeedEvil | A bit more than 250 devices would have gotten in a significant number more productive devs I think. | 17:39 |
| noobmonk3y | you got refused? eek that does not bode well for me | 17:39 |
| * TSCHAKeee hugs SpeedEvil | 17:39 | |
| thiago | SpeedEvil: 251 devices? | 17:40 |
| SpeedEvil | My application was crap. | 17:40 |
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| SpeedEvil | http://wiki.meego.com/User_talk:Speedevil/Projects | 17:40 |
| SpeedEvil | In terms of apps | 17:40 |
| SpeedEvil | It was really a platform application with some apps tacked thiny to the top as disguise. | 17:40 |
| noobmonk3y | a hell of alot better then mine! | 17:40 |
| hiemanshu | wait till you see mine :P | 17:41 |
| SpeedEvil | I needed to write it up anyway for other applications. | 17:41 |
| hiemanshu | so I am expecting the list will be done today? | 17:41 |
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| SpeedEvil | Well - I'd guess they'll do one more winnowing, then maybe pick the winners out of a hat. | 17:42 |
| Damion3 | how many applications were there? | 17:42 |
| SpeedEvil | I think it was 680 | 17:42 |
| hiemanshu | Damion3: 600-ish | 17:42 |
| SpeedEvil | Or so | 17:42 |
| Damion3 | I doubt there are more than 500 people who are THAT fanatical, surely they could have given phones to all of them | 17:42 |
| SpeedEvil | or 608 | 17:42 |
| SpeedEvil | something like that. | 17:42 |
| hiemanshu | SpeedEvil: or maybe waiting for the rebutals from people? | 17:43 |
| Damion3 | how many are going to corporations? I mean how many devices is it rumoured actually exist? | 17:43 |
| SpeedEvil | ~180 or so were totally out of spec - applying as commercial devs. | 17:43 |
| SpeedEvil | Damion3: Interesting question. | 17:43 |
| SpeedEvil | noobmonk3y: Care to share your project page? | 17:44 |
| TheBootroo | i heard nokia produced ~10k N950 and then stopped the productio | 17:44 |
| noobmonk3y | lol would rather people didn't laught at it! :) | 17:44 |
| SpeedEvil | PM if you want. :) | 17:44 |
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| TheBootroo | no proposal for a fart app yet ? | 17:44 |
| Tronic | My first N950 blog entry (use Google Translate or something) http://tronic.puheenvuoro.uusisuomi.fi/77160-voiko-elop-estaa-n9a-kaappaamasta-iphonen-markkinat | 17:44 |
| noobmonk3y | SpeedEvil: u mean the application page? | 17:45 |
| SpeedEvil | TheBootroo: Damn - let me add that to my proposal! | 17:45 |
| noobmonk3y | as my project stuff is all still on Maemo until i get my ass in gear and move it across to meego :0 | 17:45 |
| TheBootroo | Tronic: why don't you post directly in english? | 17:45 |
| SpeedEvil | noobmonk3y: you had to link to a project page in the application. | 17:45 |
| Damion3 | N950 surprise ohuudellaan and light weight, both of which it is like hell N900 aa better | 17:45 |
| hiemanshu | SpeedEvil: I linked to my github page | 17:46 |
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| hiemanshu | Tronic: you have a N950? | 17:46 |
| noobmonk3y | oh i linked to all of my current project maemo pages etc | 17:48 |
| noobmonk3y | doh! | 17:48 |
| noobmonk3y | well i'm still in there, i hope they realised how dappy i am ;) | 17:48 |
| SpeedEvil | What maemo apps have you got - I forgot. | 17:48 |
| noobmonk3y | i coulda linked to git, homepage, maemo etc, but i just linked to one :| | 17:48 |
| noobmonk3y | healthcheck, maecount | 17:48 |
| noobmonk3y | and helped with many others | 17:49 |
| noobmonk3y | healthcheck had a few variants, as i had never coded in python, qt, etc etc so started on python, then moved to qt :) | 17:49 |
| SpeedEvil | Well - to be fair - I think the limit of coding public for a n900 I've done was an bash one-liner that did a knight rider effect on the keyboard LEDs. | 17:49 |
| noobmonk3y | so the new version could be portable :) | 17:49 |
| Damion3 | SpeedEvil: what on earth did they reject you on? | 17:49 |
| noobmonk3y | hehehe!! :) | 17:50 |
| SpeedEvil | Which was cool - but possibly not a very useful app. | 17:50 |
| noobmonk3y | lol speed i almost incorporated that into hc ;) | 17:50 |
| noobmonk3y | i coverted it to python ;) | 17:50 |
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| SpeedEvil | Damion3: Out of spec, I suspect. | 17:50 |
| SpeedEvil | 'applications, applications, applications' | 17:50 |
| SpeedEvil | And to be fiar - I haven't actually written any for the n900 | 17:50 |
| noobmonk3y | meh.... they are taking into account more then that though :) - reputation is included etc | 17:50 |
| SpeedEvil | I've been doing wiki, and IRC support stuff. As well as pointing lots of people to resources. | 17:50 |
| TheBootroo | SpeedEvil: yuo really did K2000 effect for N900 with keyboard backlight ? | 17:50 |
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| noobmonk3y | yup that would gelp | 17:51 |
| noobmonk3y | help* | 17:51 |
| SpeedEvil | I think I caused several applications indirectly. Certainly was one of the early people pushing for usb-host | 17:51 |
| noobmonk3y | :) :) | 17:51 |
| noobmonk3y | well doc and Mo both have their N950's on the way! | 17:52 |
| berndhs | are the accelerometers good enough for inertial navigation? | 17:52 |
| SpeedEvil | Would love to see if it's possible on the n9 | 17:52 |
| SpeedEvil | berndhs: No. | 17:52 |
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| SpeedEvil | berndhs: The error is on the order of a centimeter a second a second. This means that after a minute, you're 60cm/s out, with 36m position error. | 17:53 |
| SpeedEvil | Assuming the device is held in a known orintation. | 17:53 |
| berndhs | right | 17:53 |
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| SpeedEvil | It's not useless for very, very short term use, or gesture recognition - but much beyond that - no. | 17:53 |
| berndhs | and most of the data you get would be noise from handling the device | 17:53 |
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| TheBootroo | does the mail client of harmattan support threaded conversations like gmail does ? | 17:54 |
| noobmonk3y | i think so :P Jaffa will tell ya tho ;) | 17:55 |
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| thiago | TheBootroo: no, it doesn't | 17:56 |
| TheBootroo | thiago: too bad | 17:56 |
| TheBootroo | will have to develop my own the | 17:57 |
| TheBootroo | *then | 17:57 |
| Jaffa | thiago: :-( | 17:57 |
| Jaffa | TheBootroo: Make a Google Mail client (i.e. supports delete/archive/report spam) and conversations (rather than full threading) | 17:57 |
| Jaffa | But backed my QMF's IMAP support | 17:57 |
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| TheBootroo | Jaffa: would be based on Trojita code | 18:00 |
| * Jaffa doesn't know it. | 18:00 | |
| TheBootroo | QMF is soo unstable and uncomplete | 18:00 |
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| TheBootroo | Jaffa: i helped this guy to port this program on maemo 5 http://trojita.flaska.net/ | 18:00 |
| Jaffa | TheBootroo: Got IMAP IDLE support, which is quite nice. | 18:00 |
| Jaffa | (as a feature, no idea about the implementation) | 18:01 |
| TheBootroo | Jaffa: trojita has it too | 18:01 |
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| TheBootroo | trojita may be the best mail client at the day, excluding it supoort only IMAP, no SMTP, and the desktop ui is poor | 18:01 |
| SpeedEvil | The commercial dev program for companies pay for their n950s? | 18:01 |
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| Termana | SpeedEvil, I don't think so. On the other hand, it wouldn't surprise me though | 18:03 |
| TheBootroo | Jaffa: but mobile UX by myself looked great https://gitorious.org/meego-community-mobile-ux-ng/meego-community-mobile-ux-ng/blobs/master/images/my_harmattan-like_apps/Trojita.png | 18:03 |
| TheBootroo | and i will enhance it yet a lot | 18:03 |
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| Termana | TheBootroo, coincidence that your custom MeeGo UX bottom bar looks almost exactly the same as the bottom bar on that UI? :p | 18:05 |
| Jaffa | TheBootroo: That does look good. | 18:05 |
| TheBootroo | Termana: no coincidence here , its all my own UX concept so i follow it in all my apps | 18:05 |
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| TheBootroo | Termana: you can look at several screenshots of my Qt mobile apps here https://gitorious.org/meego-community-mobile-ux-ng/meego-community-mobile-ux-ng/trees/master/images/my_harmattan-like_apps | 18:07 |
| TheBootroo | you will see kinda looking-like between them | 18:08 |
| TheBootroo | i like consistency | 18:08 |
| TheBootroo | i'm baking a small toolkit with all my custom classes to speed up mobile ux development in plain Qt | 18:08 |
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| TheBootroo | no opengl needed, no qml, no meegotouch, only pure QtCore + QtGui | 18:09 |
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| alterego | Why are you using QtGui when it's being deprecated? | 18:11 |
| TheBootroo | alterego: QtGui is not deprecated | 18:12 |
| TheBootroo | it will never be | 18:12 |
| alterego | It is being deprecated | 18:12 |
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| alterego | Yes it is | 18:12 |
| TheBootroo | its from the base of qt | 18:12 |
| alterego | It's being deprecated in Qt5 | 18:12 |
| alterego | And it will probably be removed in some 5.x series | 18:12 |
| alterego | Or maybe 6 | 18:12 |
| TheBootroo | if qt forces dev to use QML i'll leave qt | 18:12 |
| alterego | bye :) | 18:12 |
| TheBootroo | i won't use QML | 18:12 |
| * alterego chuckles | 18:12 | |
| alterego | Well, that's your perogative, no one is going to want to use your code if it isn't QML :P | 18:13 |
| TheBootroo | i'll maintain a new framework based on Qt4.8 qwidget | 18:13 |
| alterego | For how long, and for what purpose? | 18:13 |
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| TheBootroo | alterego: because i'm not sure C++ Qt devs should use fricking Javascript for developping apps | 18:13 |
| TheBootroo | really too slow | 18:13 |
| TheBootroo | and i dont like the syntac | 18:14 |
| TheBootroo | *x | 18:14 |
| alterego | Not liking syntax is a silly argument. | 18:14 |
| alterego | And where would Javascript be noticably slower? | 18:14 |
| TheBootroo | and QML isn't as complete as QtWidget, and dont support CSS | 18:14 |
| alterego | QML doesn't mean no C++, it just helps you seperate UI with application logic. | 18:14 |
| alterego | So, why should CSS even be _in_ a UI framework .. | 18:14 |
| alterego | (except HTML5 of course) | 18:15 |
| TheBootroo | alterego: JAvascript is noticeably slower since is not compilated binary code | 18:15 |
| inean | alterego: Don't feed the troll :P | 18:15 |
| alterego | TheBootroo: where is it slower? | 18:15 |
| TheBootroo | alterego: everywhere | 18:15 |
| alterego | TheBootroo: I want examples of where you find Javascript visually slower than QWidget .. | 18:15 |
| alterego | TheBootroo: neah .. | 18:15 |
| TheBootroo | and QML syntax is too much close to JSON, don't look like programming | 18:16 |
| alterego | Animations, etc, are all done in C++ for QML | 18:16 |
| alterego | Javascript is used to bind the UX into a functioning unit. | 18:16 |
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| alterego | It's not meant to look like programming, it's meant to be a declarative UI language. | 18:16 |
| alterego | You're describing a scene graph. | 18:16 |
| TheBootroo | when i would like doing HTML using qt syntax, the qt devs want me to do Qt ui with JSON syntax ? that's a bottom-up world IMP | 18:16 |
| TheBootroo | *IMHO | 18:17 |
| alterego | rubbish | 18:17 |
| alterego | QWidget is ugly and a constant pain in the ass. | 18:17 |
| thiago | QML is supposed to feel like "storing data" as opposed to programming | 18:17 |
| alterego | (compared with QML) :) | 18:17 |
| TheBootroo | alterego: i dont want to use a scene, i want to use c++ objects i can interact with | 18:17 |
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| Jaffa | TheBootroo: FWIW, Qt Quick 2.0 and/or Qt5 (I forget which) will (possibly?) have compiled QML files | 18:18 |
| alterego | TheBootroo: I don't think you've ever used QML to judge it as you do | 18:18 |
| TheBootroo | alterego: i don't find Qwidget a pin in the ass, i can do great things with itr | 18:18 |
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| alterego | Jaffa: Qt5 is supposed to have compiled QML yeah :) | 18:18 |
| thiago | alterego: not really | 18:18 |
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| thiago | that was never discussed | 18:18 |
| hiemanshu | alterego: well the thing about QWidget, making a UI is easier than actually writing everything by yourself :P | 18:18 |
| alterego | thiago: really? Well, you'd know, I heard rumours :P | 18:18 |
| alterego | hiemanshu: for simple UIs sure. | 18:19 |
| alterego | For a text entry here, and a button there .. | 18:19 |
| hiemanshu | yup | 18:19 |
| berndhs | i still can't compile qt5 :) | 18:19 |
| alterego | otoh, it probably takes the same amount of time in QML with Qt Components. | 18:19 |
| alterego | If not less .. | 18:19 |
| hiemanshu | and that is what most use either ways a simple UI | 18:19 |
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| alterego | hiemanshu: well, that's not true in _this_ ecosystem ;) | 18:19 |
| alterego | http://stage.rubyx.co.uk/columbus/index.html | 18:19 |
| alterego | That interface is currently QWidget | 18:20 |
| alterego | Do you know how long it took to code? | 18:20 |
| hiemanshu | alterego: hah yes :D | 18:20 |
| alterego | I was doing that interface for about a month. | 18:20 |
| hiemanshu | alterego: I dont know, but I'd use it :P | 18:20 |
| alterego | In QWidget. | 18:20 |
| TheBootroo | alterego: your are not quick enough | 18:20 |
| hiemanshu | alterego: well its beautiful | 18:20 |
| hiemanshu | TheBootroo: eh? you are a pro? | 18:20 |
| alterego | I've since started rewriting it in QML, and I've got about there and I've only spent 2 days doing it. | 18:21 |
| TheBootroo | a develop my UX in a bunch of hours using Qwidget custom classes | 18:21 |
| TheBootroo | hiemanshu: yes i'm a pro ;-) | 18:21 |
| alterego | Good for you .. | 18:21 |
| hiemanshu | TheBootroo: oh wow, are you getting a N950? | 18:21 |
| TheBootroo | hiemanshu: yes | 18:21 |
| hiemanshu | neat | 18:21 |
| hiemanshu | I hope to see something from you | 18:21 |
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| alterego | Lotsa widgets I imagine .. | 18:22 |
| TheBootroo | a pro who is disapointed to learn he will need to use fukin QML to develop apps instea of sweet C++ classes he is used to | 18:22 |
| hiemanshu | TheBootroo: language | 18:22 |
| TheBootroo | hiemanshu: you will | 18:22 |
| thiago | TheBootroo: you can use C++ if you want | 18:22 |
| RST38h | YOu can still use C++ | 18:22 |
| thiago | TheBootroo: just not the widget classes you're used to | 18:22 |
| alterego | TheBootroo: if you were a "pro" I think you'd see the advantage, anyway, I'm not getting into a debate with you, you're a bit too stuck up for my liking. | 18:22 |
| TheBootroo | thiago: yeah but i can't no more develop the UX in plain C++ like i was doing | 18:22 |
| RST38h | Or make UI independent from the C++ app code | 18:23 |
| hiemanshu | eh, you can use C++ you should know that, because you are a pro | 18:23 |
| berndhs | QML will show again that people can write crappy code in *any* language :) | 18:23 |
| hiemanshu | no QML is a conspiracy, to let JS take over the world | 18:23 |
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| thiago | TheBootroo: no you can't because the widget classes aren't suitable anymore | 18:23 |
| TheBootroo | alterego: i dont see advantage because i will noticeably loose time and functionnailty before getting the same level of UX | 18:23 |
| hiemanshu | TheBootroo: but QML is the future | 18:24 |
| alterego | TheBootroo: so much for being a pro then .. | 18:24 |
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| TheBootroo | alterego: qwidget will not dispappear because i dont see any businees using it for industrial UX, QML is just good enough for small mobile gadgets | 18:25 |
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| hiemanshu | TheBootroo: are you sure? | 18:25 |
| berndhs | i just wish the animations were a little smoother on desktop | 18:25 |
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| TheBootroo | before, i was seeing QML like a good alternative for small prototypes and all but now we are forced to use it, i dont see the point | 18:25 |
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| TheBootroo | hiemanshu: let me keep some hopee | 18:26 |
| Tronic | hiemanshu: Nope. A friend does and I will receive mine only later. | 18:26 |
| hiemanshu | Tronic: ah | 18:26 |
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| Tronic | TheBootroo: Finnish audience on that blog. | 18:26 |
| TheBootroo | Tronic: no more | 18:27 |
| TheBootroo | Tronic: i'm french ;-) | 18:27 |
| TheBootroo | and i'll definitely read your blog | 18:27 |
| TheBootroo | but ATM, i have to leave you guys, i'm going home | 18:27 |
| TheBootroo | will probably come back later | 18:28 |
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| kermit` | Excuse me, how can I get Myriad Alien Dalvik for meego? Is it not open sources? | 19:36 |
| kermit` | I can't find it on its homepage | 19:36 |
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| kermit` | They just said that Nokia N9 can't run Java apps as Android with Myriad Alien Dalvik. | 19:37 |
| thiago | kermit`: it's not open source | 19:38 |
| thiago | contact Myriad | 19:38 |
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| kermit` | Hmm, then is there other ways to port Java on Meego, OpenJDK for example? | 19:41 |
| kermit` | The platform may be Atom. | 19:41 |
| thiago | Java is one thing | 19:42 |
| thiago | Dalvik is another | 19:42 |
| kermit` | Such as netbook, ?pad ann so on. | 19:42 |
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| kermit` | I see, but I want port some Android apps on to Meego. | 19:43 |
| kermit` | Is there any open sources way? | 19:43 |
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| thiago | yes | 19:44 |
| thiago | you can write your own Alien Dalvik | 19:44 |
| kermit` | That's a great job, but crazy for me. Then it means no way so far? | 19:46 |
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| thiago | I doubt it | 19:47 |
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| berndhs | rewrite the apps in C++, probably faster than writing your own Dalvik :) | 19:47 |
| thiago | right, you can just actually *port* the application | 19:48 |
| andyross | To be clear: you don't have to write your own Dalvik, the interpreter is open source. You need to port the middleware to run on top of Qt. | 19:48 |
| kermit` | In fact, I consider that Qt is greater than Java at least. But I can't port so many programs at a short time. | 19:48 |
| thiago | that's why Myriad has a business | 19:48 |
| thiago | if it were easy to port all apps, they wouldn't be doing it | 19:49 |
| kermit` | Hmm, Myriad may earn a lot of money. | 19:49 |
| thiago | I have friends there, so I hope they do | 19:49 |
| berndhs | invest in Myriad shares, get rich, and you won't care about apps | 19:50 |
| Elleo | you could help working on icedrobot, which is an open source attempt to do similar things (although targetting generic linux desktops rather than meego specifically) | 19:50 |
| kermit` | Maybe I'd better to tell the boss to buy Myriad directly... | 19:50 |
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| Elleo | not sure how far they've got | 19:50 |
| kermit` | Thanks, Elleo, I'd like to see it: | 19:51 |
| kermit` | :) | 19:51 |
| Elleo | kermit`: http://www.icedrobot.org | 19:51 |
| kermit` | I have find it from google as soon as you told me:) Thanks | 19:52 |
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| beerock | I know I asked this before but is there a proper file manager with the meego tablet ux and exopc? Or is everyone just using terminal as pixelgeek1 explained to me? I know the browser works but not seeing it as functional to move files in an easy way. please any insight would be appreciated. 8) | 20:22 |
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| araujo | beerock, I don't know any, but I was writing a qml-based one some time ago ... | 20:28 |
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| * araujo might get back to that code at some point | 20:28 | |
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| wazd | hi all | 20:30 |
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| beerock | araujo, I personally think you should ;) I will test :) . I think it is a needed addition to make this media freindly like most other tablets and handhelds unless again im missing something. | 20:31 |
| araujo | beerock, though I started it more like a way for me to learn QML, ... I do think a file manager is always a handy application no matter what | 20:32 |
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| beerock | IMO at the videos pane there should be a simple "+ " sign to add some videos same with music etc | 20:33 |
| araujo | yeah, I saw the thread in the mailing list, and seems there is some interest, nice ... I guess I can play a bit more with the idea and see what happens :) | 20:33 |
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| beerock | syre wish I could help, but dont understand programming. not sure why there isnt just a "+" sign at the top, | 20:34 |
| beerock | of the video/music .I personally thought I was not able to find such a button. | 20:35 |
| araujo | if I upload something publicly, I will announce in the mailing list , so you are welcome to test ;) | 20:36 |
| beerock | and hell, while it seems Im complaining ;) I'm not. Why isnt twitter under the social. ?? any light on that. Otherwise this would be my everyday on my tablet but instead i'm stuck with stinkin windows. | 20:43 |
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| andyross | araujo: Yeah, I'd put a file manager right behind a working terminal on the list of "important geek tools". One of the problems is that everyone working on this stuff always has a box handy from which to ssh. MeeGo is just now getting to the point where people will use it in isolation. | 20:57 |
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| berndhs | that's pretty sad, file manager usage now means people are "geeks" | 21:05 |
| beerock | very sad...... | 21:05 |
| berndhs | what's next, people who can tie their shoes are "mechanics" ? | 21:05 |
| beerock | but i do consider myself a part-time geek | 21:05 |
| * TSCHAKeee hates the concept of files in general | 21:06 | |
| TSCHAKeee | and operating systems | 21:06 |
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| TSCHAKeee | but programmers are stubborn people | 21:06 |
| TSCHAKeee | even when shown better solutions. | 21:06 |
| beerock | i'm a mechanic but still have velcro | 21:06 |
| TSCHAKeee | (read: Smalltalk, and objects) | 21:06 |
| berndhs | velcro is fine for many purposes :) | 21:07 |
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| berndhs | well, this is Unix, everything is a "file" | 21:07 |
| TSCHAKeee | so what? | 21:07 |
| TSCHAKeee | ;) | 21:07 |
| berndhs | just a different name for "object" | 21:07 |
| TSCHAKeee | stop being autistic for once | 21:07 |
| TSCHAKeee | ;) | 21:08 |
| TSCHAKeee | not really | 21:08 |
| andyross | berndhs: I honestly agree in principle. But in practice users don't use file managers, period. It makes me sad too that the only way to access content is through content-specific apps these days, but it's the way that all the successful platforms have made it work. | 21:08 |
| TSCHAKeee | files are untyped blobs of crap | 21:08 |
| TSCHAKeee | they serve to isolate information, rather than letting it mingle and connect together | 21:08 |
| berndhs | andyross: I think it is a bad mistake to contrain all users to how the top 85% will behave | 21:08 |
| TSCHAKeee | (this is my research and development fringe computer scientist side of me talking) | 21:09 |
| andyross | Maybe there's an opportunity there for someone to rethink the idea of content management and come up with something that recovers the filesystem in a way that's meaningful to users. But that's a whole lot more innovative than just writing a file manager. File managers are for geeks. | 21:09 |
| berndhs | s/contrain/constrain/ | 21:09 |
| infobot | berndhs meant: andyross: I think it is a bad mistake to constrain all users to how the top 85% will behave | 21:09 |
| * andyross chuckles at the sed bot | 21:09 | |
| araujo | andyross, it seems like a good point to have a file manager .... | 21:09 |
| araujo | :P | 21:09 |
| berndhs | well, personally I don't use file managers much, I use /usr/bin/find | 21:10 |
| andyross | Yeah, that's the reason we don't have one yet: we're all shelled into the device from something with a keyboard. | 21:10 |
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| berndhs | TSCHAKeee: so the iAPX-32 would support that very well, wouldn't it :) | 21:12 |
| berndhs | or was it 432 ? i forget | 21:12 |
| berndhs | i worked on concepts for structured architecture stuff many moons ago | 21:13 |
| TSCHAKeee | 432.. it would have been interesting | 21:14 |
| TSCHAKeee | ironically, the VAX CPU would hve done it very well | 21:14 |
| berndhs | yes | 21:14 |
| TSCHAKeee | alas DEC settled for VMS :P :) | 21:14 |
| berndhs | Burroughs was way ahead on those things | 21:15 |
| TSCHAKeee | kidding, i did like some aspects of VMS | 21:15 |
| TSCHAKeee | oh yeah, the B5000 had Euler. | 21:15 |
| TSCHAKeee | or..shit i forget which one | 21:15 |
| TSCHAKeee | but the guy who was working on Euler was working at Burroughs. | 21:15 |
| berndhs | in todays terminology, every memory word had a MIME type | 21:15 |
| TSCHAKeee | mhm | 21:15 |
| TSCHAKeee | some of those ideas were put into the OSI standards | 21:16 |
| berndhs | well, a type tag | 21:16 |
| TSCHAKeee | *nod* | 21:16 |
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| bash` | hi all, I never used rpm before, how to run a "apt-get update && apt-get upgrade" on meego 1.2? | 21:16 |
| hiemanshu | bash`: zypper ref && zypper up | 21:17 |
| thiago | that has nothing to do with rpm | 21:17 |
| berndhs | bash`: zypper update | 21:17 |
| thiago | zypper update | 21:17 |
| bash` | zypper is the package manager? | 21:17 |
| bash` | thanks | 21:17 |
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| Elleo | if I'm wanting to do some audio playback with harmattan what's the recommended framework? mafw? phonon? qtmultimedia? direct gstreamer stuff? | 21:21 |
| Elleo | couldn't see anything clear in the platform guide, though I may have missed it | 21:21 |
| bash` | oss-1.2-daily takes a lot to synchronize | 21:27 |
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| bash` | can I set mirror for the repositories or there is none? | 22:19 |
| bash` | my download speed is 40kb/s | 22:19 |
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| wazd | anybody knows the name of the track from Nokia Swipe Experience flash demo? | 22:43 |
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| bash` | hi, my n900 isn't charging with usb cable, battery is low and I haven't the AC adapter right now. any help? | 23:50 |
| hiemanshu | bash`: continously rebooting? | 23:52 |
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| bash` | hiemanshu: yes | 23:53 |
| hiemanshu | bash`: either use a wall charger, or charge it an external charger, nothing else works | 23:53 |
| hiemanshu | bash`: or boot up meego | 23:53 |
| bash` | damn :( | 23:53 |
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| bash` | hiemanshu: what do you mean by "external charger"? | 23:54 |
| hiemanshu | bash`: something like another phone, or the universal chargers | 23:54 |
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| bash` | damn...I've none right now | 23:56 |
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| bash` | hiemanshu: now the phone is turned on but the applet shows the battery isn't charging :( | 23:57 |
| niala | I have an external cherger because my usb is broken. works great | 23:57 |
| bash` | display light is very low | 23:57 |
| bash` | niala: I've the original wall charger too, but not here ATM | 23:58 |
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| niala | arfs no luck bash` | 23:58 |
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| niala | hey CosmoHill how are you | 23:58 |
| CosmoHill | tired but good | 23:59 |
| bash` | I've another AC, could I cut the usb cable and link it to the AC? o.O | 23:59 |
| niala | CosmoHill, on holiday? | 23:59 |
| bash` | I don't know if that works... | 23:59 |
| Stskeeps|holiday | bash`: enable offline mode | 23:59 |
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