IRC log of #meego for Thursday, 2011-06-23

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Venemo	lcuk, I think this "swipe" thingy is a very nice GUI idea	00:02
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alterego	I think future disruptions doesn't include this year ..	00:04
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lcuk	alterego, I think the meeting of minds from this last weekend was the start of that	00:06
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alterego	Heh	00:06
alterego	:)	00:06
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npm	have the apps on n9 (and associated UX) been ported to the ExoPC yet? :-)	00:11
lcuk	the apps on the n9 have not been released yet	00:12
npm	how much of the non-harmattan stuff is open source? or how much will be?	00:12
npm	and also the UX to create them.	00:12
npm	and would QtMobility + (what else) bee needed to run these apps on x86 MeeGo?	00:13
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mamoul	hey buddies	00:16
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mamoul	how are my favorite meego people	00:17
CosmoHill	f'd if I know	00:17
mamoul	I'm running netbook	00:17
npm	we've placed bucket near our keyboards to catch the drool	00:17
mamoul	with meego	00:17
mamoul	oic	00:17
mamoul	I just updated this darn thing	00:17
mamoul	but I dn't think it updated to 1.2	00:17
CosmoHill	mamoul: as far as I know you can't update from one version to another, eg 1.1 to 1.2	00:18
mamoul	is 1.2 an automatic update or do I have to download a new image	00:18
mamoul	oh ok	00:18
mamoul	that's what I was suspecting	00:18
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mamoul	I thought somehow I had updated from 1.0 to 1.1	00:18
npm	you can if you know what you're doing, and depending on versions	00:18
monoid	3000+ comments on the top engaget N9 articles	00:18
mamoul	yeah	00:18
CosmoHill	I believe you require a new image	00:18
mamoul	most distros have a major version upgrade process, but honestly easier to wipe a new image	00:19
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npm	i dunno about 1.0 to 1.0 that way because 1.0 didn't have zypper	00:19
CosmoHill	MeeGo is still young so there changes between 1.X and 1.Y are substantial	00:19
npm	s./1.0/1.2	00:19
mamoul	yeah	00:19
mamoul	is 1.2 everything I've been hoping for?	00:19
CosmoHill	only you can answer that	00:19
mamoul	does it autoconnect to networks that don't broadcast their ssid's?	00:19
npm	i'd wait till 1.2.1	00:19
mamoul	hehe	00:19
Venemo	1.(n+1) is the winner	00:20
* CosmoHill wonders if npm is joking		00:20
mamoul	I'll just put 1.2 on it and use zypper to go to 1.2.1	00:20
npm	esp. if it's all working for you now	00:20
mamoul	the only thing I couldn't stand about meego is the lack of support for hidden ssid's	00:20
npm	that's bascally what i did.	00:20
mamoul	and also my wireless card used to drop its connection all the time	00:20
mamoul	but right now it seems ok	00:20
mamoul	maybe they resolved that issue already	00:21
CosmoHill	Meego only do 1.X releases, to get 1.X.Y you download 1.X and update it	00:21
mamoul	right	00:21
npm	well you'll be able to find a 1.2.1 image and install that at some point	00:21
CosmoHill	nope	00:22
mamoul	what!	00:22
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mamoul	I rather like meego	00:22
mamoul	somehow it fits on my netbook	00:22
mamoul	which only has 4G of storage	00:22
npm	at worst on day of 1.2.1 release, grab http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/snapshots/stable/1.2.0.90/latest/ and install that	00:23
mamoul	nice	00:23
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CosmoHill	npm: you know 1.2.0.90 is the 1.3 pre-realease?	00:23
mamoul	:o	00:23
npm	it fits on my netbook that only has 1G of storage	00:23
mamoul	nice	00:23
npm	in fact having more that 1G won't help on 1.2 due to kernel issue	00:23
CosmoHill	it fits on ...oh wait I don't have a netbook	00:23
mamoul	wait what	00:23
mamoul	why won't it help	00:24
CosmoHill	MeeGo will be a fixed size with however much left for /home	00:24
mamoul	crap	00:24
mamoul	that's not smart	00:24
* CosmoHill is mostly making this up		00:24
mamoul	hmm	00:24
CosmoHill	I mean	00:24
CosmoHill	the install will take 500MB	00:25
mamoul	you mean it will partition the rest for home	00:25
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CosmoHill	no I mean that erm	00:25
mamoul	hmm	00:25
CosmoHill	/home doens't have to be a dedicated patition	00:25
mamoul	I only use meego because I can't use chrome os	00:25
npm	you may want to look at your logs and if you see "Warning only 895MB will be used."	00:26
mamoul	I thought chrome os would be something I could download and install on my computer, but it appears not to work that way	00:26
npm	oh i meant ram storage	00:26
npm	not disk storage	00:26
CosmoHill	ah	00:26
mamoul	I have 2 gigs of ram	00:26
npm	one will be used	00:26
npm	in meego 1.2	00:26
mamoul	my netbook is fairly powerful	00:26
mamoul	shit	00:26
CosmoHill	hmm	00:27
npm	runs fine	00:27
npm	:-)	00:27
mamoul	hehe	00:27
* CosmoHill looks for his Meego 1.2 disc		00:27
mamoul	maybe meggo 1.2.1 wll fis that	00:27
* npm wishes		00:27
mamoul	we shall see	00:27
mamoul	maybe I'll stick with 1.1	00:27
mamoul	it runs chrome fine	00:27
mamoul	so far no dropped wifi	00:27
npm	actually a good test to run is "about:sandbox"	00:28
mamoul	chromium*	00:28
npm	if is says you are properly sandboxed, then run 1.1	00:28
* CosmoHill goes to prove npm wrong		00:28
npm	because it won't in 1.2	00:28
mamoul	it says I'm not	00:28
mamoul	but I swear I just updated to 1.1.6	00:28
CosmoHill	mamoul: you can always run 1.2 off a memory stick and see how it goes	00:28
npm	i'd go fetch my son's 1.0 netbook to see what that says, but i'm lazy	00:28
npm	mamoul: the isssue has been reported	00:29
mamoul	sweet	00:29
CosmoHill	oh yeah, I'll prove you wrong but not if I means getting out of my seat	00:29
mamoul	meego is developing a little faster now	00:29
mamoul	it was dead for a while back in the day	00:29
CosmoHill	You mean when Nokia went "it's not you, it's me...and Microsoft"	00:30
npm	i've seen no signs that it will be fixed in 1.2.1 but you can see for yourself: https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16284	00:30
MeeGoBot	Bug 16284 is not accessible	00:30
npm	um, or not	00:30
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CosmoHill	bugger me you're right, wtf	00:31
npm	never mind	00:31
npm	pretend i never said that	00:31
npm	:-)	00:31
CosmoHill	total RAM: 868MB	00:31
* CosmoHill is using the livecd		00:31
berndhs	well it can't be "fixed", its supposed to be like that	00:31
CosmoHill	damn, I've been using the MeeGo livecd as a host OS to build stuff	00:31
npm	makes da compiles go a little slow eh	00:32
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CosmoHill	biggest issue it running out of RAM, not having swap and it crashing	00:32
npm	just don't do too many parallel compiles at a time and you'll be fine	00:32
npm	i setup lots of swap on my netbook	00:33
npm	knowing i'd be using it for devel	00:33
CosmoHill	funny you should say that, it crashed when I did multiple jobs	00:33
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berndhs	put in tons of RAM and swap to a RAM disk :)	00:33
npm	lots == 4G	00:33
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CosmoHill	if I install Meego on my desktop I'd install a custom kernel to use the RAM	00:33
npm	desktop has 6G	00:33
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* CosmoHill has a 4GB desktop with Intel Q6600 and Intel GMA4500		00:33
npm	i've seen some compiles w/ gnarly parser tables and full optimization get rather large	00:34
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arjan	the reason we normally limit to 1Gb is that there is a 8% or so cost for enabling the option to do more	00:34
arjan	and netbooks/etc usually have 1Gb	00:34
monoid	fast device RAM also consumes power	00:34
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npm	is there a way of making that dynamic, or perhaps a kernel option so you could boot into a different config for more ram	00:35
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CosmoHill	zypper install super_kernel	00:35
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monoid	any word on pricing? ~500 eur?	00:35
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CosmoHill	if you want to pay me 500 € for a super kernel you're welcome to	00:36
monoid	lol	00:36
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gabrbedd	npm: either install 2 kernels or convince Linus to add such a feature. :-)	00:37
npm	arjan: any chance we could get those kernel options so's we can have a happier chromium browsing experience? (re aforementioned bug)	00:37
CosmoHill	arjan: is the 1GB limit a boot option?	00:37
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npm	arjan: specifically 'PID Namespaces' and 'Network namespace' under 'Namespaces support' config	00:39
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Stskeeps	we don't have those? they're kinda needed for MMS	00:39
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npm	actually that bug looks like it will be fixed for 1.2.1 since it's an update release blocker	00:40
npm	so there's a good reason for updating to 1.2.1 mamoul	00:40
mamoul	sweet	00:41
arjan	npm: sadly it really is compile time ;-)	00:41
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gabrbedd	npm: CosmoHill: The MeeGo kernel is compiled without HIGHMEM support. grep HIGHMEM /boot/config-$(uname -r)	00:41
gabrbedd	That's what gives you >1GB support for 32-bit linux.	00:42
arjan	yup	00:42
arjan	if it was cheaper it'd be on always	00:42
arjan	sadly it isn't ;-(	00:42
npm	hmmm. any chance of offering two kernels? i can imagine some mobile situations that might want to run some large apps (e.g. gabrbedd's indamixx workstation apps)	00:42
CosmoHill	kernels take up size	00:42
CosmoHill	what compression does meego use on the kernel?	00:42
gabrbedd	indamixx provides its own kernel -- so don't bring us into this. :-)	00:43
CosmoHill	so add his repo and install his kernel?	00:43
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npm	what's your kernel got that mine's missing?	00:46
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CosmoHill	HIGHMEM apparently	00:47
gabrbedd	that, and capers	00:47
npm	well leaving gabrbedd out of it, i also run apps that can use lots of memory: http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo-Lem#Qtractor_Audio.2FMIDI_Editor_and_Sound_processing_plugins	00:48
npm	although i run out of CPU first usually	00:48
CosmoHill	poor atop	00:49
npm	hmmm that reminds me ... i should try openshot on the tablet. probably pretty nice to hand-edit your video on it	00:49
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CosmoHill	I could take the MeeGo .spec file for the kernel, change the configuration and create it on the OBS?	00:52
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gabrbedd	CosmoHill: More or less, yes.	00:54
gabrbedd	CosmoHill: The kernel maintainers have a system to try to keep all the kernels in sync... so it would be a good idea to try and track with that.	00:54
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gabrbedd	CosmoHill: But not totally necc.	00:55
gabrbedd	CosmoHill: I recommend cloning the OBS project, if possible... rather than using the .src.rpm	00:57
CosmoHill	yeah I've just seen that	00:57
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gabrbedd	CosmoHill: Also... don't use the gitorious repos.	00:58
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CosmoHill	there are 10 kernel .src.rpms, that's kinda confusing	00:58
CosmoHill	wait, I can ignore the header's one	01:00
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CosmoHill	aparantly there are 3 kernels on the OBS	01:05
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CosmoHill	gabrbedd: I can branch a project but only if it's on the OBS	01:08
* CosmoHill stabs his router with a chicken		01:09
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CosmoHill	both are clucked	01:13
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CosmoHill	okay, there are 3 kernels on the OBS, 2 of them don't exisit and one is not for meego	01:15
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berndhs	so that narrows it down to 0 of them ?	01:15
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CosmoHill	I need to update my space anyway cos it's for meego 1.1	01:16
CosmoHill	damn....added a new repo as a target and it's already building my packages for it	01:17
CosmoHill	can the OBS unpack .src.rpm files?	01:19
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Jaffa	javispedro: No platfrom SDK here - running low on disk space on my dev boxes.	01:20
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javispedro	you only need the x86 one for the time being	01:20
javispedro	so it's half the space	01:21
javispedro	ah well, manual install required for that though	01:21
CosmoHill	I ran out of space on my desktop so I made a new /home and moved stuff over	01:21
javispedro	so forget I said anything =)	01:21
CosmoHill	didn't go to well :(	01:21
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CosmoHill	openmpi for Meego 1.2 http://repo.pub.meego.com/home%3a/cosmo/MeeGo_Trunk_standard/i586/	01:26
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lcuk	Jaffa, for the first time ever, my n900 told me it was out of disk space	01:36
CosmoHill	my nokia told me to obay the speed limit	01:37
lcuk	sensible	01:37
CosmoHill	made me swerve :s	01:37
lcuk	don't speed then.	01:37
CosmoHill	I wasn't expecting it and it made me jump	01:37
CosmoHill	if the weaving caravan wasn't doing 70mph I wouldn't have to go faster to over take it	01:38
reed	did nokia open source the GUI for the N9?	01:38
lcuk	i let jake fly my helicopter tonight	01:38
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CosmoHill	what kinda size we talking about?	01:38
CosmoHill	big boy's RC one or a xmas one that crashes into the xmas tree?	01:39
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lcuk	CosmoHill, training model.	01:40
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newbie007	does anyone here know where on a N900 the "N900" directory actually is?	01:41
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alterego	newbie007: it's /home/user/MyDocs	01:43
alterego	lcuk: ping	01:45
newbie007	thx, I'm still not seeing the same directory strucutre, I hope Meego has improved on this. I don't like not knowing where my stuff is	01:46
alterego	newbie007: hidden directories for .documents .images are localised and shown as "Documents" and "Images" and "Music" etc ..	01:47
monoid	perhaps N900 should have been named MyDocs	01:47
alterego	(in English)	01:47
alterego	In other languages those directories are localised to be other names.	01:47
alterego	To make the UX nicer for different nationalities.	01:47
newbie007	.documents was it, thank you!	01:47
monoid	oh right localisation	01:47
newbie007	but from the gui you'd think there is / /SDCard and /N900 with /N900/Documents	01:49
newbie007	I read on engadget there is a n950 coming out	01:50
alterego	No, there is an N9 "coming out"	01:50
alterego	The N950 is a developer device for targetting the N9	01:50
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CosmoHill	I think the N950s always belong to Nokia, they're just lent to developers	01:51
mamoul	alright	01:51
mamoul	just updated to 1.2	01:51
mamoul	it's pretty sweet	01:51
newbie007	oh	01:51
mamoul	although it failed to automatically partition my ssd	01:51
mamoul	so I reused the partition layout from 1.1	01:51
mamoul	anyway so long and thanks for all the fix	01:52
mamoul	fish*	01:52
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CosmoHill	lol	01:52
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gabrbedd	CosmoHill: did you find the kernel OBS project?	01:56
CosmoHill	the Community OBS can't see packages in the proper OBS	01:56
gabrbedd	I've been told that you can, at least through OSC. But it requires a little extra config-file magic.	01:57
berndhs	you can get the srpm off the main OBS and make your own	01:57
CosmoHill	it's midnight, I'll leave the witchcraft for another day	01:57
gabrbedd	FWIW, I based my kernel off the gitorious site... back when it was almost OK to use.	01:57
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gabrbedd	Last I checked, it was fscked, though.	01:57
CosmoHill	I just want the config file tbh	01:58
gabrbedd	You can get that from the .rpm (not the source RPM... the binary rpm)	01:58
CosmoHill	good poinbt	01:58
CosmoHill	also need the .spec file to compile it	01:59
gabrbedd	aaaaaand that would be the .src.rpm :-)	01:59
CosmoHill	jep	01:59
gabrbedd	BTW, I only mentioned the OBS stuff if you were wanting to build a kernel to maintain long-term.	01:59
gabrbedd	Obviously the .src.rpm is the shortest past from A to HIGHMEM.	02:00
gabrbedd	:-)	02:00
CosmoHill	if enough people download it then maybe an offical one will get made	02:00
berndhs	or if 1 manufactuerer wants to make a 2GB device	02:01
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CosmoHill	my workstation at uni started out with 1GB of RAM	02:03
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CosmoHill	it now has 4GB of RAM just to coup with it's workload	02:03
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CosmoHill	was gonna add a scratch disc but we don't think the PSU can take it	02:04
alterego	Someone has seriously screwed up N9/950 searches on youtube with Android spam	02:04
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monoid	exactly what search	02:05
alterego	"Nokia N950"	02:05
alterego	second page is pretty much 90% android spam :D	02:05
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alterego	Well, youtube is owned by google ..	02:06
berndhs	there you go, sue them	02:06
alterego	Or not, wtf is "botleizer"?	02:07
alterego	http://www.youtube.com/wa	02:07
alterego	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxeHvNARzcQ	02:08
alterego	That is sad ..	02:08
monoid	and making an issue of it is also	02:10
alterego	I guess it's yours then ..	02:10
alterego	No need to get defensive :P	02:10
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niala	I'm tired of hearing about money, money... I just want to play the game, drink Pepsi, wear Reebok. -Shaquille O'Neal/ LOL	02:12
CosmoHill	you chav	02:12
alterego	Hah	02:12
* CosmoHill goes to smoke weed and knock up a slapper		02:12
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Venemo	anyhow, we should really congratulate to Nokia's marketing team	02:14
Venemo	after spending two hours reading their articles and app development guidelines, I now actually want the device.	02:14
niala	CosmoHill, I wonder how have weed with no sun if weather at wimbledon is true :)	02:15
CosmoHill	riding along the towpath, the weeds have grown a lot over a week	02:17
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berndhs	some wild grasses here are taller than me this year	02:18
berndhs	has been really wet	02:18
CosmoHill	first time we're seen mud since we've started riding	02:20
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GAN900	Venemo, it's a slick damn device.	02:22
alterego	Best vid I've seen:	02:23
alterego	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LphiRFvd40I	02:23
alterego	Goes through pretty much everything ..	02:23
Venemo	GAN900, I like its UX very much	02:23
Venemo	GAN900, to be honest, I didn't expect that they would be able to suprise me, but they did.	02:23
GAN900	Nokia's still got it	02:24
berndhs	me too, I didn't expect the pink one	02:24
GAN900	there's a lot of bullshit and idiocy in the way	02:24
alterego	You mean, the Harmattan team still have it ;)	02:24
GAN900	but they still got it.	02:24
MSM	berndhs: Everything is better in pink ;-)	02:24
Venemo	yeah	02:24
niala	CosmoHill, about ride I'm sad for n900 he has no fm transmitter, i like radio on cycle	02:25
Venemo	I don't understand why they need M$ and WP7 if they have _this_	02:25
alterego	Eh?	02:25
berndhs	when its dark it doesnt matter a lot	02:25
GAN900	Venemo, nor I.	02:25
CosmoHill	niala: bicycle	02:25
alterego	The N9 has FM radio apparently.	02:25
GAN900	Even Engadget agrees.	02:25
Venemo	yeah	02:25
alterego	(and probably FM transmitter too)	02:25
alterego	Remember the TX feature isn't allowed in china ..	02:25
Venemo	and I'm also excited to develop apps for this stuff	02:25
niala	thank CosmoHill	02:26
berndhs	an interesting question is whether they can make something equally attractive with WP	02:26
Venemo	I only hope that the N950's battery will last longer than the N900's	02:26
Venemo	they can not, WP's UX sux	02:26
berndhs	perhaps they will just port Qt to WP	02:27
niala	alterego, sure?	02:27
alterego	berndhs: maybe that's why they've not announced a release date in the UK or other key western markets ...	02:27
MSM	berndhs: Aren't they releasing the N9 with WP?	02:27
alterego	niala: yes.	02:27
Venemo	berndhs, I sure hope that they will	02:27
alterego	niala: apparently the FM drivers are closed and we're having issues getting them for the N9 and N950 for MeeGo N9(XX) Community Edition ;)	02:28
Venemo	berndhs, the only advantage of WP7 is that it's very easy to develop with Silverlight. but Qt is catching up quickly	02:28
berndhs	Elop said the next billion is not at the top end of the market	02:28
CosmoHill	niala: I mean that it was a push bike, not a motorbike ride that we had	02:28
mtd	If anyone has time / experience I'd love a review of my Community N950 device application: https://meego.com/community/device-program/applications/two-apps-n9-tron-game-port-and-location-based-ringtone-management-app	02:28
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CosmoHill	also if I was going to listen to music on a bike; headphones and a crash helmet would be better than an FM transmitter	02:29
berndhs	I mean of course it makes sense to use Qt on WP, but that doesn't mean it will be done	02:29
berndhs	it also makes sense that we should have landed on Mars 20 years ago :)	02:29
Venemo	berndhs, yeah...	02:29
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GAN900	berndhs, no it doesn't.	02:30
alterego	mtd: they're private	02:30
alterego	berndhs: or maybe it will be done.	02:30
alterego	Maybe it is being done already, and you just don't know about it :)	02:30
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berndhs	sure, its entirely possible	02:30
MSM	Tin foil hat time?	02:31
alterego	Maybe it's more than possible ......	02:31
niala	CosmoHill, transmitter is not the good word? forget	02:31
CosmoHill	niala: no no, FM transmitter is correct	02:31
alterego	You know, like we were saying we thought MeeGo needed Nokia for this, the N9	02:31
monoid	lunar elevator could be completed now	02:31
alterego	Microsoft needed Nokia	02:31
CosmoHill	in the car a FM transmitter would be great	02:31
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alterego	The invested _billions_ into Nokia for them to put windows on their phones.	02:31
CosmoHill	but on a push bike there is no radio	02:31
niala	about battery: if n900 phone is one block can we change the battery ?	02:31
CosmoHill	(not unless you stole it)	02:32
alterego	I keep hearing things, and I'm starting to think that MS got the pointy end of the stick in their deal.	02:32
MohammadAG	I thought the FMTX was part of the wl1271?	02:32
monoid	you can change the n900 battery niala	02:32
alterego	I don't think the MS/Nokia relationship is as bad as we've all been thinking it is.	02:32
alterego	MohammadAG: indeed	02:32
Venemo	alterego, please elaborate	02:32
monoid	it stinks	02:32
MohammadAG	alterego, and isn't that open? (drivers for the wl1251 were open)	02:33
lcuk	Venemo, different people like different features. having microsoft on nokias is not a bad thing.	02:33
lcuk	same as having MeeGo on nokias is not a bad thing.	02:33
alterego	MohammadAG: I don't know, check :P	02:33
niala	whoops sorry i mean n9 not n900	02:34
lcuk	Venemo, Nokia have historically made the most excellent hardware of any phone manufacturer in the history of the telephone	02:34
alterego	The options, especially when having multiple _high_ end operating environments on good hardware, means that the customers can decide.	02:34
Venemo	lcuk, good point. and developing with Silverlight is not a bad thing, I only wish that there were a tool with which we could target both Nokia's WP7 and MeeGo devices	02:34
alterego	Two equally great platforms, or at least, two great platforms, are better than one no?	02:34
alterego	Especially if they're both cheap to maintain ..	02:34
lcuk	Venemo, niggles rather than show stoppers	02:34
lcuk	it is a good thing for the consumer to have choice	02:35
Venemo	that I agree with	02:35
lcuk	but they know if they pickup a Nokia it will be reliable :)	02:35
alterego	Someone said they'd seriously, pay me to develop a QML to silverlight and silverlight to QML conversion.	02:35
Venemo	however, it would be nice if I could develop with a single toolkit for both of them	02:35
alterego	I'm contemplating it, but I don't think it's too viable.	02:35
berndhs	well, unless you are the only provider, then choice is not that great :)	02:35
alterego	From a UX design perspective, it might be ...	02:35
Venemo	alterego, I can help you with that	02:35
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lcuk	Venemo, having it run Symbian or MeeGo or WP7 is great in my book.	02:36
lcuk	or Maemo6 :)	02:36
alterego	But any easy translation is broken by application code requirements, like qt mobility, or whatever silverlight has.	02:36
lcuk	;)	02:36
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Venemo	lcuk, sure	02:36
lcuk	alterego, lowest common denominator	02:37
Venemo	alterego, we could write a QML<->XAML converter	02:37
lcuk	either make pure qml document apps work well	02:37
lcuk	or html+js	02:37
alterego	Venemo: I'm sure the basics wouldn't be hard, and I think it may even be a useful project	02:37
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alterego	But who knows :)	02:37
lcuk	or something c based perhaps	02:37
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lcuk	;)	02:37
alterego	Venemo: if you want to have a go at it, and you make some good progress, I will put you in contact with my contact.	02:37
Venemo	alterego, obviously converting between C++ and C# would be not easy, but since 90% of the GUI is in the declarative part, it wouldn't be a necessity	02:37
lcuk	Venemo, tsh	02:38
alterego	Venemo: sure, I'm just talking about the pure UX stuff.	02:38
lcuk	QML -> C# is required too	02:38
alterego	So transitions, images, the core UX stuff, no app logic.	02:38
Venemo	alterego, I lack the necessary QML knowledge to make it happen, but I'm very-very good with XAML	02:38
Venemo	alterego, so we could pull it off together	02:38
alterego	m'kay.	02:38
alterego	Well, I'll put it on my list and we can see how things pan out for me over the next month or so ;)	02:39
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alterego	Do you think XAML on N9 would be good? ;)	02:39
Venemo	yeah, that too	02:39
alterego	If we could write a XAML->QML(runtime) implementation.	02:39
Venemo	we could port Moonlight even	02:39
alterego	Using what we know, well, that would be awesome.	02:39
niala	gnight	02:39
Venemo	Moonlight has an XAML parser and is fully compatible with SL2	02:40
alterego	Get Qt to make a QML scene graph from XAML ..	02:40
alterego	Hrm ...	02:40
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alterego	Moonlight, yes, isn't that written in Mono/C# ?	02:40
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Venemo	dunno what it's written in	02:40
Venemo	but _if_ the backend of QML is a public API, then anyone could easily write an XAML parser that would sit on top of that API	02:41
alterego	Of course it's public, it's FOSS	02:41
alterego	Doesn't take much to compile against private headers _if_ we need to ;)	02:41
alterego	But everything we need should be public.	02:41
Venemo	hehe	02:41
Venemo	well, basically it's a JSON<->XML conversion then	02:41
alterego	Nope	02:42
alterego	I'm thinking XML -> QtQuick scene graph	02:42
alterego	Skip QML entirely	02:42
Venemo	yeah, that is right	02:42
Venemo	I'm talking about the converter you mentioned earlier	02:42
alterego	We can work on dumping .qml files if we want.	02:42
alterego	But I think a runtime would be more useful as a demo to ensure funding.	02:43
Venemo	and the non-declarative parts of QML could be translated into the "code-behind" C# code of the XAML in question	02:43
alterego	Or at least for a cool R&D project.	02:43
Venemo	mhm :)	02:43
alterego	It's getting late, I really need to head to bed soon.	02:43
Venemo	yeah, me too	02:44
* alterego dreams about deliveries with N8 at his door in the morning.		02:44
alterego	knock knock	02:44
Venemo	s/N8/N9 ?	02:44
mtd	alterego: thanks	02:44
alterego	mtd: what for?	02:45
Venemo	all I can say is, I can definitely help with either of these ideas, but I don't know enough about QML to do it alone. so if you feel like doing it alterego, you can definitely count on me.	02:45
alterego	Venemo: no, N8, though I was thinking N9 :)	02:45
mtd	If anyone has time / experience I'd love a review of my Community N950 device application: http://www.martindengler.com/proj/n9/	02:45
alterego	I'm waiting for an N8	02:45
mtd	alterego: the reminder they're private, minutes ago :)	02:45
alterego	Want to play with the multimedia capabilities of it.	02:45
alterego	mtd: ah, cool :)	02:45
alterego	np	02:45
alterego	bbiam	02:45
lcuk	alterego, me too. nn speak to you tomorrow	02:45
Venemo	alterego, on a side note, if we successfully port/improve Moonlight, then we could even run WP7 apps on MeeGo (and Harmattan)	02:45
alterego	lcuk: g'night	02:46
alterego	Venemo: good point	02:46
monoid	i would like meego plus archos a70	02:46
alterego	Maybe Nokia should buy Moonlight off of Novell ;)	02:46
SpeedEvil	mtd: accellerometer and compass	02:46
wmarone_	Venemo: if you don't think MS won't actively interfere with that...	02:46
mtd	SpeedEvil: definitely	02:47
mtd	SpeedEvil: assume you're talking about the tron port; I didn't want to stuff it full of stuff to look like I was over-promising	02:47
wmarone_	bleh, excess negatives	02:47
SpeedEvil	mtd: yeah	02:47
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Venemo	wmarone_, MS is legally okay with Moonlight. they even supplied Moonlight with codecs and stuff.	02:47
mtd	SpeedEvil: allow me to put you under "any other patches suggested by community" :)	02:48
Venemo	so anyway, if anyone from the Harmattan team is here, please congratulate your marketing guys! they sold me totally :)	02:49
monoid	with the video?	02:50
SpeedEvil	:)	02:50
monoid	saving bookmarks to the apps page is a nice idea	02:50
alterego	Venemo: I think they're all partying :P	02:50
alterego	Anyway, g'night folks	02:50
Venemo	alterego :)	02:50
monoid	cu alterego	02:50
SpeedEvil	I, for one, want folders in the app-launcher	02:51
SpeedEvil	I understand the argument against pre-defined folders.	02:51
Venemo	SpeedEvil, it's open source, you can make it happen	02:51
SpeedEvil	Is it?	02:51
Venemo	I think it is meegotouch-home	02:51
SpeedEvil	Sorry - overspill	02:51
SpeedEvil	I dunno - I need to go and look at what is and isn't again	02:52
Venemo	although I can't give you first-hand information about it, yet	02:52
SpeedEvil	Thre was _way_ too much of assuming stuff was closed on n900	02:52
SpeedEvil	When some useful bits were in fact open	02:52
Venemo	yeah:)	02:52
* SpeedEvil wonders about meego on n9.		02:52
SpeedEvil	(and I know...)	02:52
Venemo	anyway, good night guys, it was well worth joining this channel today :)	02:52
SpeedEvil	:)	02:52
SpeedEvil	Night.	02:52
Venemo	alterego, if you are starting to think about this stuff that we talked about, I would be happy to help out with either of them. I think I'm still very good with XAML and C# and Silverlight :)	02:53
Venemo	alterego, (although it has been some time since I last used them)	02:54
Venemo	now good night!	02:54
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TSCHAKeee	okay, what is the default rendering option used by qt apps that use qtdeclarative views?	02:58
TSCHAKeee	if i leave it at default, performance is crap on my gma500	02:59
TSCHAKeee	if i do opengl, fast but lots of glitches	02:59
TSCHAKeee	raster seems to be sufficiently fast and no glitches	02:59
TSCHAKeee	so what gives?	02:59
monoid	what do you mean by glitches?	03:00
TSCHAKeee	not able to allocate textures big enough, so i get black squares	03:00
TSCHAKeee	emgd has a ton of bugs	03:00
monoid	there was a time when i couldn't allocate arrays larger than 64kB	03:02
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SpeedEvil	64K!	03:04
MSM	64K<3	03:04
SpeedEvil	There was a time I couldn't deal with >256 bytes of RAM without bank-switching.	03:04
SpeedEvil	It was last week - I was coding for PIC	03:04
SpeedEvil	(and the device only had 20 bytes of RAM anyway)	03:05
TSCHAKeee	hehe	03:06
TSCHAKeee	i've coded games for the Atari 2600	03:06
monoid	wow	03:06
TSCHAKeee	a 6502 attached to a RIOT and a TIA	03:06
TSCHAKeee	the RIOT had 128 bytes of RAM	03:06
TSCHAKeee	and there were only enough address lines for 4K of ROM space.	03:06
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monoid	thank you i don't feel so angry now	03:07
TSCHAKeee	oh yes, and that was shared	03:07
TSCHAKeee	with the stack	03:07
TSCHAKeee	you had to cycle count while the electron beam was on the screen	03:08
TSCHAKeee	to set registers for the playfield, your two players, and the ball	03:08
TSCHAKeee	76 cycles per line	03:08
monoid	yea no screen buffer	03:08
TSCHAKeee	but you got some time to breathe... during the vertical blank, and the overscan periods	03:08
SpeedEvil	I was doing that sort of thing a bit ago - on paper - to see if I could do SDR GPS on a $3 32 bit chip	03:08
TSCHAKeee	whee	03:08
SpeedEvil	It's tricky	03:08
TSCHAKeee	nice	03:09
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TSCHAKeee	but the TIA had some great points	03:09
TSCHAKeee	128 colour palette (in 1976!)	03:09
TSCHAKeee	and if you used your cycles wisely, you could draw some awesome stuff.	03:09
SpeedEvil	:)	03:09
SpeedEvil	I started on ZX81, with 1K RAM Z80	03:09
TSCHAKeee	wheee	03:10
TSCHAKeee	software driven display	03:10
TSCHAKeee	and a rather clever set of gates on a ferranti ULA	03:10
SpeedEvil	I find it amusing that there are - around - 10 cores in the n900 with more power than that.	03:10
TSCHAKeee	me too	03:10
monoid	sad that user software doesnt use them	03:10
monoid	for e.g. a low-power mp3 player	03:10
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SpeedEvil	Indeed.	03:11
CosmoHill	night night	03:11
SpeedEvil	To be fair - I'm not sure it can.	03:11
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* SpeedEvil has way too little time.		03:12
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SpeedEvil	I meant to read up and find if the DMA unit could stay awake and trickle data to the 'soundcard' if you decode in a burst for 1 minute say with the DSP	03:12
TSCHAKeee	that would be nice	03:12
SpeedEvil	With the CPU completely asleep.	03:12
TSCHAKeee	i remember when I first saw the Amiga...	03:13
TSCHAKeee	a guy named Bob Pariseau was talking about the chips	03:13
TSCHAKeee	and he said, "both the graphics and sound chips of the amiga can perform memory fetches and graphics operations on data while the 68000 sits completely idle"	03:14
TSCHAKeee	that blew my mind.	03:14
TSCHAKeee	I had seen it to a degree on the Atari 400/800	03:14
TSCHAKeee	but they took it to a whole new level on the amiga	03:15
SpeedEvil	Yep.	03:15
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SpeedEvil	For a while there, RAM was faster than CPUs.	03:15
TSCHAKeee	yup	03:15
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SpeedEvil	It's astonishing that RAM access speeds haven't moved much since 1980.	03:15
SpeedEvil	Random byte access.	03:15
TSCHAKeee	yeah, pretty much	03:15
TSCHAKeee	the static rams set the speed bar	03:15
SpeedEvil	I mean - sure - subsequent data comes in damn near instantly.	03:16
SpeedEvil	But the access time is - almost - the same.	03:16
TSCHAKeee	yup	03:16
TSCHAKeee	ram is also a lot more complex now than it once was	03:16
TSCHAKeee	when i traced through code in coreboot	03:16
SpeedEvil	(almost - from a perspective of having a RAM that is a million times bigger)	03:16
SpeedEvil	Cacheline optimisation is scary.	03:16
TSCHAKeee	to initialize the damned DDR2 SDRAM controller chips on the ram chips themselves	03:17
SpeedEvil	And all the various sorts of caches.	03:17
berndhs	doesnt it come out faster than you can transfer it, for the faster memory types?	03:17
TSCHAKeee	you literally have to write code	03:17
TSCHAKeee	that uses NO RAM at all	03:17
TSCHAKeee	entirely within the caches of the CPU and the registers	03:17
TSCHAKeee	to implement i2c	03:17
TSCHAKeee	to initialize the damned ram chips	03:17
SpeedEvil	berndhs: Not really.	03:17
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berndhs	i mean off-chip memory, the buses have been the bottleneck for a long time	03:18
berndhs	and even the pins on the chips	03:18
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SpeedEvil	The chips are designed to send at the rate the busses can handle.	03:19
SpeedEvil	You can trade size for density and access time somewhat	03:19
berndhs	there is distance and switching	03:19
berndhs	speed of light is slow	03:19
TSCHAKeee	static ram will always be faster but less dense on average	03:19
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SpeedEvil	Well - yes - and no.	03:20
SpeedEvil	The speed of light doesn't really come into it in cellphone cases.	03:20
berndhs	you can't make the buses arbitratily fast	03:20
SpeedEvil	The path from the memory to the CPU is around 2mm	03:20
berndhs	how long is that at 2/3 speed of light ?	03:20
SpeedEvil	3 picoseconds?	03:21
SpeedEvil	Somewhere around there	03:21
SpeedEvil	Well, well under 1 clock.	03:21
TSCHAKeee	you're always going to hit hard limits, physics is a bitch like that..but you CAN always try to do more in a given clock cycle.	03:21
TSCHAKeee	at least, until we can figure out how to create wormholes on a motherboard :P :)	03:22
berndhs	that's not easy though, you have to know the right bunch of things to do	03:22
TSCHAKeee	i know, the age old pipelining problem	03:22
TSCHAKeee	i started seeing this problem when VLIW and superscalar designs started appearing in the mid 80s.	03:23
SpeedEvil	Instruction ordering gets to be a hideous pain.	03:23
berndhs	i worked on some of this for parallel computing in the late 80s	03:23
TSCHAKeee	it was one of the many reasons Intel drop kicked the iAPX432	03:23
SpeedEvil	the 432 looked really interesting.	03:23
SpeedEvil	(from a historical perspective)	03:23
TSCHAKeee	it did, on paper	03:23
SpeedEvil	I wonder what it'd have done if the compiler hadn't sucked.	03:24
TSCHAKeee	they just couldn't get the damned thing to go very fast	03:24
berndhs	and the problems seemed to go awauy with really fast CPUS, and now they're mack with many-core systems	03:24
berndhs	s/mack/back/	03:24
TSCHAKeee	it would have literally been Intel's answer to the VAX	03:24
SpeedEvil	I mean - yes - the hardware was slow - but the compiler seemed to pessimise it.	03:24
TSCHAKeee	berndhs: yeah..	03:25
TSCHAKeee	the funny thing is, we're seeing so many trainwrecks about to happen with all these cores popping into designs	03:25
TSCHAKeee	but most of the industry just has their fingers in their ears	03:25
TSCHAKeee	lalalallala i can't hear you	03:25
berndhs	sure, they'll make some mistakes that seem really obvious	03:26
SpeedEvil	All of the hard problems from the supercomputer era are back.	03:26
TSCHAKeee	yup	03:26
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SpeedEvil	But they're in your phone.	03:26
TSCHAKeee	and if Cray were still alive he would have said, "I fucking told you so."	03:26
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TSCHAKeee	and i am concerned that a great many # of the solutions proposed	03:28
TSCHAKeee	...yes...any solution in the computer world is contrived	03:28
TSCHAKeee	that's the name of the game	03:28
TSCHAKeee	but some of these solutions border on utopic.	03:29
SpeedEvil	And then there is the fun game of avoiding the patent trolls.	03:29
berndhs	i'm dissapointed how little we do with all the speed and resources we have today	03:29
TSCHAKeee	berndhs: you and me both	03:29
TSCHAKeee	berndhs: i look at my 25mhz Amiga, and i cry.	03:29
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SpeedEvil	'oh - it's slow. But then it's only a 1GHz CPU'	03:30
SpeedEvil	...	03:30
TSCHAKeee	only got 1 gig of ram	03:30
TSCHAKeee	!!!	03:30
TSCHAKeee	like..dude your LOCAL STACK IS BIGGER THAN THE HEAP ON THE HIGH PERFORMANCE COMPUTERS I HACKED ON!	03:31
berndhs	this is where someone brings up the Apollo program computers :)	03:31
TSCHAKeee	yeh the AGC	03:31
TSCHAKeee	heheh	03:31
TSCHAKeee	this is where i sometimes pine for FORTH	03:32
TSCHAKeee	:P	03:32
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berndhs	i never wrote a serious Forth program	03:32
SpeedEvil	ForthML	03:34
* lcuk wonders what to call his pseudocode		03:41
berndhs	call it program_42	03:42
* TSCHAKeee is happies, our new Orbiter is taking its first breaths		03:42
SpeedEvil	Lean Inspirational Quick User Interface Developy	03:43
TSCHAKeee	why must it always be an acronym? :P	03:43
TSCHAKeee	:)	03:43
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berndhs	there's nothing wrong with 42	03:48
SpeedEvil	That would be a cool name for a language.	03:49
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lcuk	berndhs, :) http://liqbase.net/liq.20110623_015300.liqbase-playground.scr.png	03:53
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SpeedEvil	Will that crash my (imaginary) ipad?	03:54
SpeedEvil	:)	03:55
SpeedEvil	Is the clock live?	03:55
lcuk	yes	03:55
lcuk	the whole thing is	03:55
lcuk	that is what I see when I look to the left	03:55
SpeedEvil	neat.	03:55
lcuk	all the things my wallunit would have on anyway	03:56
SpeedEvil	Slight problem for anyone who can't read their own handwriting.	03:56
lcuk	not really, there are professional fonts around :)	03:56
lcuk	and everybody can practice.	03:56
lcuk	there is a whole group of sketches where I learnt how to write	03:57
lcuk	called "practice" as it happens ;)	03:57
SpeedEvil	:)	03:57
lcuk	my mate has a load of similar ones on his iphone	03:57
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monoid	i am holding on to my hope that Nokia will build more linux phones	04:02
monoid	or at least have a skeleton effort to make a kernel + drivers for new phones	04:02
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berndhs	i'm holding on to my hope that in 5 years we won't need phones any more, network will be everywhere and we'll just use voip	04:03
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phl0x81	lol	04:05
monoid	i almost never use the phone	04:05
SpeedEvil	Not going to happen in 5 years.	04:05
SpeedEvil	Spectrum is congested.	04:05
berndhs	no probably not	04:05
SpeedEvil	wimax, and ... don't change that	04:05
berndhs	oh i'm sure its perfectly feasible from a technical point of view	04:05
TSCHAKeee	actually, it's not... in the US, huge chunks are still "allocated for future use" by DoD	04:05
SpeedEvil	When beamforming gets cheap, and some of it can be offloaded onto 60GHz cheaply - ...	04:05
TSCHAKeee	similar situations in other countries	04:05
berndhs	but the market doesn't move that fast	04:06
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SpeedEvil	I have recieved 3 calls on my n900.	04:06
SpeedEvil	Actually - no - 4.	04:06
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monoid	:) SpeedEvil	04:08
lcuk2	monoid, :D what have you discovered in your recent hours about the n9(50)	04:09
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monoid	nothing lcuk2, only that i will probably not beat out 250 other devs	04:10
monoid	if it were 750 i would have a good chance i think	04:10
monoid	maybe 1000	04:10
lcuk2	did you advance your ideas further	04:10
lcuk2	s there something specific you would want to do?	04:11
monoid	i think i will buy a used n900 from amazon.co.uk	04:11
lcuk2	lol	04:11
monoid	yes i have a game running on n900 but i broke one of the battery pins	04:11
SpeedEvil	Prolly best to wait till after the deadline - just in case.	04:11
monoid	ah mhm	04:11
lcuk2	monoid, what apps have you written yourself?	04:11
monoid	a tetris clone	04:11
monoid	long ago :)	04:12
SpeedEvil	monoid: how'd you do that?	04:12
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monoid	with um.. microsoft c compiler	04:12
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monoid	on a $1800 graphics card :D	04:12
SpeedEvil	Battery terminal	04:12
lcuk2	lol	04:12
monoid	SpeedEvil: oh i bent one after dropping device so bending it back broke it off	04:13
SpeedEvil	Should be fairly easy to solder back on.	04:13
monoid	mhm ... new n900s are still pricey	04:13
SpeedEvil	I've only soldered a couple of wires onto the terminals once - never tried actually soldering it back on.	04:13
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monoid	it's like fox cancelling firefly	04:19
MSM	Firefly<3	04:20
monoid	curse you fox! curse you foreevaaaaahhhh	04:23
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monoid	sorry offtopic	04:24
berndhs	i don't follow a lot of TV series, I'm not a good consumer	04:24
monoid	same	04:24
monoid	but some linux people told me "you have to watch the whole series" and so i bought them	04:24
monoid	wow 1 billion	04:25
monoid	oops wrong window	04:26
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berndhs	hmm meego-ux is about 8700 lines of C++ and 23000 lines of QML	04:36
berndhs	meeg-ux-components	04:37
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blizzow	I'd love to see Meego installed on an e7.	07:15
blizzow	Does anyone here know if it's possible?	07:16
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Myrtti	blizzow: the general consensus is no.	07:24
iekku	morning	07:25
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blizzow	I'm surprised there is all this activity to hack other bootloaders but nobody has done it to an e7.	07:29
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Myrtti	blizzow: which other bootloaders are you referring to?	07:30
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blizzow	Motorola bootloaders, htc?	07:30
blizzow	or maybe I'm confusing jailbreaking and bootloader hacking.	07:31
MSM	Motorolas bootloaders are doomed to be locked forever	07:31
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Myrtti	android devices then... afaik Nokia is pretty adept making theirs next to impossible to get around, unless the device has been semiplanned to allow it	07:32
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DocScrutinizer	OMAP support for crypto-signed BL is pretty good	07:49
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DocScrutinizer	basically the immutable ROM bootloader integrity-checks and verifies 1st stage bootloader (xldr iirc) with a rather secure encryption key	07:52
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DocScrutinizer	for now this 1st stage BL isn't doing same for 2nd stage NOLO	07:53
DocScrutinizer	this can change any time, with any update, for any OMAP device	07:54
DocScrutinizer	and actually it seems it has changed for N9(50), see aegis	07:54
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dm8tbr	DocScrutinizer: this is only valid for HS silicon	08:04
DocScrutinizer	indeed	08:04
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dm8tbr	and that's also exactly where we broke into Archos devices back then :>	08:05
DocScrutinizer	I referred to ""Nokia is pretty adept making theirs next to impossible to get around"" where Nokia == the recent OMAP based devices which seem all to be HS	08:05
dm8tbr	yes, nokia seems to use HS by default	08:05
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dm8tbr	they're an large enough customer that there is probably little to no markup in ordering HS silicon	08:05
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wmarone_	HS?	08:06
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DocScrutinizer	also they may actually get their own root cert in ROM	08:06
dm8tbr	HighSecurity	08:06
wmarone_	ahh	08:06
dm8tbr	I bet they do	08:06
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iekku	extra bug triage for Core bugs starting on #meego-bugs, now	08:06
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dm8tbr	wmarone_: TI offers their silicon usually in 3 varieties, no, EM and HS. where EM is really just HS with a more or less known or shared key that is used for EVMs	08:09
wmarone_	did not know that	08:09
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DocScrutinizer	http://www.hs.fi/haku/?kaikkiSanat=elop+sulkee+pois+meegon+paluun [2011-06-23 07:44:28] <kirma> title is "Elop rules out return of Meego"	08:48
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Stskeeps	frankly, with all those people leaving meego devices, i'm not surprised	08:48
DocScrutinizer	one thing you can't accuse Elop for: he's never really unclear about his plans to ruin Nokia	08:49
Stskeeps	anyway, for speculation, #meego-bar or tmo :)	08:49
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DocScrutinizer	absolute consequence, absolute precision	08:49
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bkalinga	i am using baseurl=http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/releases/1.2.0/repos/oss/ia32/packages/	08:50
bkalinga	getting error warning: /var/cache/zypp/packages/1.2-oss/i586/libqtsysteminfo1-1.2.0~beta0+git2726-9.31.i586.rpm: Header V3 RSA/SHA1 Signature, key ID 44e4155a: NOKEY	08:50
bkalinga	The package integrity check failed.	08:50
DocScrutinizer	quoting a newspaper interview of elop isn't exactly speculation	08:50
bkalinga	/var/cache/zypp/packages/1.2-oss/i586/libqtsysteminfo1-1.2.0~beta0+git2726-9.31.i586.rpm Public key is unavailable	08:50
bkalinga	during sudo zypper in qt-mobility	08:50
Stskeeps	bkalinga: add a gpg key line	08:50
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bkalinga	i have added gpgkey=http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/releases/1.2.0/repos/oss/ia32/packages/repodata/repomd.xml.key	08:51
Stskeeps	bkalinga: think that path has to be local	08:51
Stskeeps	ie, wget'tted	08:51
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bkalinga	Stskeeps: after I wget http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/releases/1.2.0/repos/oss/ia32/packages/repodata/repomd.xml.key and rename this file and gave the path to this file in /etc/zypp/repos.d/1.2-oss.repo	08:59
bkalinga	still getting the same problem	08:59
bkalinga	also rpm --import /etc/pki/rpm-gpg/RPM-GPG-KEY-meego-releases1.2.0	08:59
bkalinga	error: /etc/pki/rpm-gpg/RPM-GPG-KEY-meego-releases1.2.0: import failed.	09:00
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bkalinga	if the repo changes to different location will this gpg key should change??	09:01
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Termana	morning	09:12
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MSM	Evening	09:21
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gabriel9	congratulations to all of you for N9 :)	09:39
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gabriel9	can't wait to buy that phone	09:39
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DocScrutinizer	buy 5, as it's the last linux device from Nokia	09:42
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DocScrutinizer	s/device/phone/	09:43
infobot	DocScrutinizer meant: buy 5, as it's the last linux phone from Nokia	09:44
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* DocScrutinizer giggles, mumbling "harmattan"		09:45
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flailingmonkey	DocScrutinizer: harmattan, the new curse word	09:48
DocScrutinizer	flailingmonkey: just funny to see congrats here	09:48
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flailingmonkey	DocScrutinizer: also, those photos of N950 are pretty sexy too, even if fairly weak spec-wise	09:49
DocScrutinizer	feels like somebody giving you best wishes to your 50th, while you're in fact just 40	09:49
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gabriel9	:D	09:52
flailingmonkey	DocScrutinizer: i'm pretty sure that fitting in next generation chipset (and reworking a bit for hdmi output which is common of that generation) would make for an easy second consumer device	09:53
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gabriel9	I am really happy for you guys :)	09:53
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gabriel9	meego is really nice	09:53
DocScrutinizer	gabriel9: you're aware that N9 doesn't really run meego	09:53
flailingmonkey	does it even use ofono?	09:54
gabriel9	:/	09:54
DocScrutinizer	flailingmonkey: good question	09:55
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Venemo	DocScrutinizer, others told me yesteday that it runs the handset ux (meegotouch-home) with a custom theme	09:56
Stskeeps	it runs the MTF stack, yes, with closed source bits on top	09:56
DocScrutinizer	well, the theme maybe is identical, dunno about that. The system beneath for sure is more maemo than meego	09:56
Stskeeps	but it's not meego.com underneath	09:56
gabriel9	i didn't read all stuff form the internet	09:57
DocScrutinizer	Stskeeps: what's MTF stack?	09:57
Venemo	DocScrutinizer, indeed.	09:57
gabriel9	but this is nice start and	09:57
Stskeeps	DocScrutinizer: libmeegotouch, meegotouch-home, mcompositor, etc..	09:57
DocScrutinizer	aah thanks	09:57
Venemo	DocScrutinizer, they did just like they promised	09:57
gabriel9	i will buy nokia N9, or any meego phone :)	09:57
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gabriel9	also, company in which i work are interested in Qt	09:58
gabriel9	one question: Why everybody saying that N9 is running Meego?	10:00
Venemo	DocScrutinizer, MTF = MeeGo Touch Framework	10:00
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Stskeeps	gabriel9: so, the story was that this device was supposed to come ages ago and only be a tiny speck of difference, while nokia transformed to real meego.com	10:01
iekku	CE bug triage starting @ #meego-meeting, now	10:01
Venemo	gabriel9, because all their marketing efforts are going towards the name MeeGo, so they're calling this one "MeeGo 1.2 Harmattan", plus they do support the MeeGo APIs	10:01
Stskeeps	gabriel9: what does matter is that it's a qt stack	10:01
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gabriel9	yea, it is important that people are saying it is Meego phone and they are pleased :)	10:02
gabriel9	all are happy	10:02
Stskeeps	but it does hurt the idea of 'meego compliant' quite a fair bit	10:02
Stskeeps	so that's why some people are disgruntled	10:02
gabriel9	last time i read something about meego is 2-3 months ago	10:03
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gabriel9	so i'm little out of the picture	10:04
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Venemo	perhaps they think that the meego.com MeeGo is not yet stable enough for a commercial product? who knows?	10:05
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Stskeeps	Venemo: given that nokia were supposed to invest 50% of the burden into meego.com, it makes you wonder who's fault it is	10:06
Stskeeps	:P	10:06
Venemo	hehe	10:06
Venemo	well anyway, what MeeGo needs is products built on it, so we should appreciate the N9(50) even if they're not "the" MeeGo yet.	10:07
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Hq`	yes, the positive reviews of the N9 are definitely good publicity for meego.com too, even if it's technically not real meego	10:10
Stskeeps	it's just about not confusing matters too much. there were a large number of things the harmattan guys could have done to lessen the impact and they didn't do it	10:11
Venemo	thing is, that noone outside this channel cares about what it is technically.	10:11
Stskeeps	1) developer story sucks: people have to tell the difference between meego.com (many devices) vs harmattan (one device)	10:11
Venemo	they see a great UX, they see the MeeGo caption, and that's all we need	10:11
Stskeeps	2) there's nothing technical stopping them from having been able to accept meego compliant rpm packages	10:12
Venemo	Stskeeps, you sound right. but right now, it is meego.com: 0 devices vs harmattan: 2 devices	10:12
Venemo	sure	10:13
Stskeeps	3) they haven't bothered to even bring toolchains to sync, glibc/etc	10:13
Venemo	this is all true	10:13
Venemo	but then look at the bright side:	10:13
Venemo	I can make a package for both platforms with one click in the same IDE	10:14
Venemo	oh, and one more click and I will get it to the N900 too	10:14
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Stskeeps	i'm a little unconvinced of the magical rpm/deb generation :)	10:14
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Stskeeps	i'm already seeing people post .deb's only for their sw	10:15
Stskeeps	and that shows a problem	10:15
Venemo	I'm sure that as soon as there'll be meego.com-based devices, people will start posting .rpms too	10:15
Stskeeps	except there are already, while not handsets	10:16
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Venemo	we shall see.	10:16
Botsik	Stskeeps: you can blame me for the magical deb creation, I think - the original prototype was mine and the original implementation was by a guy who was promptly snatched by Trolltech Berlin after that...	10:17
Stskeeps	Botsik: weren't you bostik at some point? :P	10:17
Venemo	anyway, I think you do agree that what happened is still a lot better than nothing	10:17
Botsik	yeah, but apparently someone else has a claim to that nick shrug	10:17
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Stskeeps	Venemo: i don't think it's a bad thing but honestly, they should have done a minimal effort to fix some glaring issues that would simplify matters a lot	10:17
Venemo	Stskeeps, I agree fully	10:18
Stskeeps	they certainly had a long time to figure out things	10:18
Venemo	but if this is what their manpower allowed them to do, then I welcome it	10:18
Stskeeps	i think there were simply some people that were lazy and narrow minded.	10:18
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Venemo	maybe.	10:19
Stskeeps	Botsik: btw, had bringup of qt5+qtquick2	10:19
Venemo	I only hope that this MTF theme they made (the swipe thingy) for their UX will be able to run on the N900 in some form	10:19
Stskeeps	heh, good luck with that sgx frequency	10:19
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Venemo	hm?	10:20
Stskeeps	n950/n9 sgx frequency is 200mhz which is why things look so damn good ;)	10:20
Stskeeps	n900's 110mhz	10:20
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Venemo	I'm not saying I'm expecting an equally smooth experience	10:20
Venemo	(N900's RAM is also a lot lower)	10:20
Stskeeps	i'm of the opinion that people ought to forget about the closed source stuff and contribute to what's open and already quite nice, as the closed source path isn't sustanable	10:21
Venemo	agreed	10:22
Botsik	Stskeeps: yummy, it may take me a couple of weeks before I can appreciate the whole shebang but I am interested - just at the moment I'm in the middle of one hell of a emergency situation which deprives everything else of my attention	10:22
Stskeeps	go try out the n900 CE summer release	10:22
DocScrutinizer	Stskeeps: (minimal effort to fix some glaring issue) look, it's Nokia ;-P	10:22
Stskeeps	Botsik: :nod:	10:22
Stskeeps	Botsik: i'm leaving saturday for vacation for a bit, too	10:22
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Venemo	someone just needs to make a similar MTF theme in FOSS, and then put it on the N900 DE	10:22
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Venemo	Stskeeps, according to a guy who blogged about it, Harmattan took only 9 months. I expected a bit more.	10:23
Stskeeps	not that simple	10:23
Stskeeps	9 months?	10:24
Stskeeps	ah-ha.hahaha	10:24
Stskeeps	:P	10:24
monoid	i like maemo on the n900 just fine as-is	10:24
Venemo	http://konttoristhoughts.blogspot.com/2011/06/respect.html - "All the blows and all the work in the course of 9 months."	10:24
Stskeeps	Venemo: meaning several people left and problems	10:24
Stskeeps	in those 9 months	10:24
Venemo	mhmm	10:25
Venemo	ah, so I misunderstood	10:25
Venemo	nevermind :)	10:25
Stskeeps	what you more should look at is how damn quickly intel ramped up a QML ux	10:26
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Venemo	that is nice too	10:27
DocScrutinizer	well, they don't probably use botches like tana_fi_foobar to accomodate their translators and the process	10:27
Venemo	Intel's is nice, but it isn't "swipe"	10:27
DocScrutinizer	I'm quite sure things like those slow down development quite a bit	10:27
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Stskeeps	DocScrutinizer: yes, because those damned chinese doesn't matter?	10:28
Stskeeps	(please note the sarcasm there)	10:28
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Venemo	anyhow, Intel indeed seems to be a more agile company, and they are a lot more behind MeeGo than Nokia is	10:28
DocScrutinizer	whatever, there are better ways inhouse, see qt-linguist	10:28
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DocScrutinizer	and honestly no app should break by just removing locale or by setting LANG=C	10:30
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monoid	an intel phone could run dosbox better, and do everything else worse	10:31
DocScrutinizer	there's even proprietary botch in .desktop for this, where it definitely isn't needed	10:31
DocScrutinizer	(at least in fremantle there's been)	10:32
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DocScrutinizer	you're aware that depending on locale is what makes rootfs bloated with a 29MB size translations file that's rather useless on early boot and could've been moved to /usr proper otherwise	10:34
DocScrutinizer	(i.E. could've been optified)	10:35
DocScrutinizer	that's what slows down development speed	10:36
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Venemo	still, Harmattan is a lot better than what I expected	10:39
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DocScrutinizer	I've not yet touched it	10:42
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Venemo	me either, but it looks very good	10:43
DocScrutinizer	even mockups look good usually ;-D	10:43
DocScrutinizer	only gates manages to announce new OS and get a BSOD	10:44
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Venemo	DocScrutinizer :D	11:01
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TheBootroo	omg did some1 saw THAT : http://mynokiablog.com/2011/06/22/nokia-n950-press-shots-meego-qwerty-devkit/comment-page-1/#comment-108443	11:07
TheBootroo	no more want a N9, i want the N950 sure	11:08
TheBootroo	sexiest device ever	11:08
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Venemo	TheBootroo, agreed	11:09
TheBootroo	look at my commment at the bottom of page, i put things in their true place about the MeeGo ecosystem troll	11:09
TheBootroo	;-)	11:09
TheBootroo	http://mynokiablog.com/2011/06/22/nokia-n950-press-shots-meego-qwerty-devkit/comment-page-1/#comment-108443	11:09
TheBootroo	ok	11:10
TheBootroo	already posted the same link	11:10
TheBootroo	didn't see	11:10
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Venemo	no problem	11:10
Venemo	yeah, I did read your comment :)	11:10
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TheBootroo	Venemo: ok that's what you said 'agreed' about	11:11
TheBootroo	Venemo: i can be a little acid on my comments because it annoys me seeing people who don't understand things to continue to feed a wrong troll	11:12
TheBootroo	so sometimes i try to explain things to restore the truth, even if i know a few number is going to understand and yet fewer will agree....	11:13
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Venemo	yeah	11:14
Venemo	I understand	11:14
TheBootroo	but since 2 years maemo and moblin merge has been anounced, i never failed in my predicitions about meego and what i thought always finished by arriving, maybe a little later because of nokia internal reorganizing, but i'm pretty sure MeeGo is not death, it's a just born baby with a full life in front of it.... i hope i'm not wrong ...	11:15
TheBootroo	Venemo: you understand and you agree	11:15
TheBootroo	that's great	11:15
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Venemo	:)	11:17
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TheBootroo	oh and in my free time, i'm developping a proto for a new UI for meego Community Edition handset, which will be on pair with N9 one i hope, that how it looks at the moement (not finished at all, but i sleeped at 3:50AM last night so didn't finished huh) : http://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/488517Capture10.png	11:21
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TheBootroo	the new thing is the apparition of categories separtion in the menu, i don't made the panels view neither expose neither notifications wall at the moment (not finished) but at end it will look very slick	11:22
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TheBootroo	i will post landscape screenshots soon	11:23
Venemo	TheBootroo, is this a design concept or a working prototype?	11:23
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TheBootroo	Venemo: half-working protoype, but not yet compiled for meego, runs on my ubuntu qt dev box	11:24
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Venemo	TheBootroo, is it based on MTF?	11:24
TheBootroo	a sort of proof of concept	11:24
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TheBootroo	Venemo: no its 100% plain C++ Qt4, no MTF, no QML	11:25
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TheBootroo	only Qt and a few CSS	11:25
Venemo	TheBootroo, based on QWidgets?	11:26
TheBootroo	yes	11:26
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Venemo	mhm	11:26
TheBootroo	Venemo: i will rewrite the stabilized prototype using QGraphicsItems then	11:26
TheBootroo	its to show my ideas to MeeGo devs by let them play with my proto on every Qt plateform to see the real goodness and maybe fix some glitches if needed	11:27
TheBootroo	Venemo: do you like it (keep in mind its not finished)	11:27
* timoph would like to see the actual code		11:28
TheBootroo	timoph: i will put it on my gitorious very soon	11:28
TheBootroo	maybe tonight	11:28
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timoph	nice	11:28
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TheBootroo	timoph: need to refactor a little the code	11:29
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Hq`	at least it looks a lot better than the current reference handset ux :)	11:30
TheBootroo	Hq`: thx	11:30
TheBootroo	just wait a little time i finish at least the menu page and you will see the real candidate look	11:31
TheBootroo	i need to do some missing icons too	11:31
Hq`	but soon everyone will want swipe ;)	11:31
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TheBootroo	and code some layouts (in fact only adapt them since i already made them in another project)	11:31
TheBootroo	Hq`: this UX is not swipe based and will never need mutlitouch to work (i'm thinking about N900 users who don't have it)	11:32
TheBootroo	and i want to prove we can do a modern UI without necessary reproducing all Apple hyped paradigms	11:33
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TheBootroo	oh and i will not keep symbian Anna icons, snice they are not free and will use another custom theme (a lot of work under inskcape is being done for these icons)	11:34
julienf	morning :)	11:34
Venemo	morning	11:35
alterego	bonjour	11:35
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TheBootroo	alterego: tu es français ?	11:35
wazd	http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/22/nokia-n950-pictures-a-gallerys-worth-of-meego-to-tell-the-stor/ ooooh :)	11:35
alterego	Erm, no	11:36
TheBootroo	ok	11:36
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alterego	I just like to greet in different languages :D	11:36
julienf	alterego: :D	11:36
julienf	anyone nearby London this weekend?	11:36
flailingmonkey	nice video of N950 with the keyboard getting some use: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6U8jH_apD2k	11:36
Venemo	morning alterego	11:36
julienf	Could do an improvised meetup as I'm here :)	11:37
Venemo	flailingmonkey, it's nice, but they speak in some weird language	11:37
alterego	julienf: I'm always near by London, not sure what I'm doing this weekend though.	11:37
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flailingmonkey	Venemo: I didn't actually have my audio up, so I didn't notice	11:38
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wazd	btw, I've mentioned it before at meego-arm. I was looking at all that "swipe" fancy stuff and remembered one thing: http://tabletui.wordpress.com/2009/09/14/fremantle-swipe-launch/	11:38
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bkalinga	root 508 238 0 08:37 ? 00:00:00 sh -c LANG=C gdb --batch -f /usr/bin/mcompositor /tmp/corewatcher/core.344.processed -x /var/lib/corewatcher/	11:39
bkalinga	root 509 508 16 08:37 ? 00:00:00 gdb --batch -f /usr/bin/mcompositor /tmp/corewatcher/core.344.processed -x /var/lib/corewatcher/gdb.command	11:39
bkalinga	my qemu comes black	11:39
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Venemo	wazd, hmmm	11:39
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bkalinga	and i see this on ps output as some thing unusual	11:40
bkalinga	any one has any idea?	11:40
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julienf	alterego: When do you have some time?	11:40
wazd	Venemo: well, of course it's not a 100% copy :)	11:40
alterego	julienf: I'd have to probably let you know tomorrow.	11:41
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flailingmonkey	night	11:42
roofboard	Test.. Hi!	11:42
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wazd	roofboard: hello :)	11:42
roofboard	anybody here?	11:42
andre__	kind of	11:43
roofboard	cool! i just started using meego this is awesome best netbook os ever!	11:43
wazd	roofboard: awesome :)	11:43
Venemo	roofboard, very cool	11:43
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roofboard	yah man, imean i tried.... the new ubuntu 11, easy peasy, netbook remix, and joli!	11:44
TheBootroo	how about using the tablet ux on a netbook, would be cooler even no ?	11:45
wazd	TheBootroo: eeek :)	11:45
roofboard	one wouild need a touch screen....	11:45
roofboard	hey i got a question for yall	11:45
TheBootroo	roofboard: not necessarely	11:46
TheBootroo	jsut use only left mouse button	11:46
roofboard	what do you use as an application manager/system monitor?	11:46
TheBootroo	roofboard: XTerm ;-)	11:46
TheBootroo	and sometimes Synaptic and Gnome-System-Monitor (but heavy)	11:46
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roofboard	did you have to compile them yourself?	11:47
TheBootroo	roofboard: i mean on ubuntu	11:48
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TheBootroo	roofboard: i can't use meego since i don't yet have correct hardware (all my devices have nvidia)	11:48
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TheBootroo	roofboard: but i believe there is synaptic in meego repos	11:49
TheBootroo	not sure though	11:49
TheBootroo	but you can use Gnome Package kit	11:49
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roofboard	omm, i typed in synaptic and i got an imput driver! but the gnome package kit is well alot of stuff...	11:52
roofboard	what is meego built off? can i use the ppa's from ubuntu?	11:52
Stskeeps	no	11:52
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TheBootroo	no the input driver is SynapticS	11:53
TheBootroo	and ubuntu ppa use .deb meego is using .rpm	11:53
TheBootroo	you could maybe use Fedora repos	11:53
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roofboard	ok, thanks i will try and check out some rpm libraries, btw does antbody know where the repository file is?	11:54
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bkalinga	Hi all, is there any way i can clean my MeeGo1.2 installation without re-installing from the scratch	11:56
bkalinga	My tablet qemu was working earlier and suddenly started showing black screen	11:56
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bkalinga	i want to clean my set up simillar to a fresh installation	11:57
bkalinga	without re-installing it	11:57
bkalinga	Is it possible?	11:57
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maitrey	bkalinga, i faced similar problems with netbook installation but it appears that we need to reinstall .. are u trying to upgrade to 1.3?	11:58
bkalinga	1.3 is available??	11:59
maitrey	no i mean an update existing 1.2 ?	11:59
bkalinga	yes i want to clean everything so that it will behave as a fresh installation	12:00
maitrey	I used 17th may image and tried to update it but same issues as yours ended with black screen..	12:00
bkalinga	will Maintain MeeGoSDK1.2 will help	12:00
bkalinga	or it will download again eveything?	12:00
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maitrey	are u able to get to the console? mirek2 had a tweak .. may be he can help you	12:01
bkalinga	yes i am able to get console	12:01
bkalinga	themedaemon crashes so not able to see the ui	12:02
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maitrey	mirek2, can u please help bkalinga ? it seems u had some tweak which worked for rakesh	12:03
maitrey	I was not able to get to the console bkalinga	12:03
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bkalinga	meego@[meego-tablet-sdk]::~$	12:04
bkalinga	Message from syslogd@localhost at Thu Jun 23 09:04:17 2011 ...	12:04
bkalinga	localhost klogd: [ 18.417137] Process mcompositor (pid: 382, ti=f5366000 task=f53649d0 task.ti=f5366000)	12:04
bkalinga	i am getting these logs repeatedly	12:04
bkalinga	Message from syslogd@localhost at Thu Jun 23 09:04:52 2011 ...	12:05
bkalinga	localhost klogd: [ 54.050988] Process mcompositor (pid: 1025, ti=f537e000 task=f20eac50 task.ti=f537e000)	12:05
bkalinga	pid: changes repeatedly	12:05
timoph	bkalinga: please use pastie.org or similar	12:05
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alterego	Gutted	12:07
mirek2	there is missing exported one variable in QT	12:08
mirek2	I think	12:08
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bkalinga	mirek2: you mean export QT_IM_MODULE=MInputContext	12:10
mirek2	yes and anotherone I think	12:10
mirek2	ok now I remmember	12:11
mirek2	soemthing QT_MEEGOGRAPHICSYSTEM or similar	12:11
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bkalinga	who should export It	12:11
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roofboard	has anybody had any luck using garage?	12:19
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TheBootroo	garage is not up yet	12:21
TheBootroo	empty shell / place holder	12:21
TheBootroo	;-)	12:21
roofboard	well... no wonder it doesnt seem to work!	12:21
roofboard	im having trouble figuring out how to add repositories, i checked out a few recepies online but they didnt seem to pan out and ideas?	12:22
lbt	I don't think there will be a garage	12:23
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lbt	just c. OBS and Apps and so on	12:23
roofboard	obs?	12:24
TheBootroo	gitorious for projects code	12:24
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TheBootroo	gitorious ROX da wurld	12:24
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roofboard	umm well does it have a repository? how do i add it?	12:25
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lbt	roofboard: http://wiki.meego.com/OBS	12:25
roofboard	ok, i think i get it now!	12:26
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roofboard	still no ideas on how to install new repositories?	12:29
lbt	zypper ar	12:30
lbt	?	12:30
roofboard	because i need to find a task manager and their is none in the stock set of repos	12:31
leo	when i install "meego-ivi-ia32-1.2.0.90.0.20110517.1.img " in my tablet,I found the resulotion is not correct. My tablet is 1024600, but the ui only 800480. The left and bottom border is black.	12:31
leo	how to fixed this problem?	12:32
roofboard	is their a quit hot key?	12:32
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leo	I found someone have commit this bug.https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=12455	12:34
MeeGoBot	Bug 12455 nor, Medium, ---, jesse.barnes, NEW, Displayed UI does not adapt to available screen resolution	12:34
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timoph	leo: iirc there was a mailing list discussion about ivi reference ux that ivi people don't really care about the reference ux since manufactures will do their own anyway. So I wouldn't get my hopes up for out of the box great ux with ivi images.	12:36
leo	But i install the netbook image. The problem also exist	12:39
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lardman	morning	12:40
timoph	why not use the tablet images?	12:40
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leo	i try all the image include tablet. found the same problem	12:41
timoph	what tablet you're using?	12:42
timoph	exopc?	12:42
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timoph	at least on my exopc the resolution is correct	12:42
leo	My device is z530+gma500.so i must use "kernel-adaptation-intel-automotive" and "@X for IVI" packages	12:42
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timoph	ah. so it's an hardware adaptation issue	12:43
timoph	since I'd think your device is not one of the supported reference devices	12:44
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timoph	so you'd have to do some adaptation work to get it working correctly	12:46
leo	but i install this image "http://bug10738.openaos.org/images/nokia_3g_booklet/mg-netbook-ia32-1.1.99.5.20110502.85.iso". every thing is ok	12:46
MeeGoBot	Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10738 nor, Undecided, ---, tero.kojo, NEED, Meego community ftp server or similar needed	12:46
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timoph	that's a modified unofficial image	12:46
timoph	apparently it has the needed changes	12:47
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timoph	no idea what those changes are though :)	12:48
timoph	dm8tbr: any idea ^	12:48
leo	is x config's problem?	12:51
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iekku	ok, i start my vacation now, so next 1,5 weeks i'm not as active here than usually	13:02
SpeedEvil	Going somewhere nice?	13:03
iekku	SpeedEvil, trying to have life :D nothing special	13:04
SpeedEvil	:)	13:04
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DocScrutinizer	is forummeego.com sloooow for anybody else, or is that my carrier's routing?	13:08
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SpeedEvil	Firefox can't find the server at www.forummeego.com.	13:14
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DocScrutinizer	forum.meego.com	13:16
DocScrutinizer	sorry	13:16
DocScrutinizer	some real URL: http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?s=24dbf6179cfdef5914133c9eeb885862&t=3597&page=7	13:17
SpeedEvil	loads acceptably fast here	13:17
DocScrutinizer	(is this git or what? URLs of similar length)	13:17
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: thanks	13:17
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DocScrutinizer	I guess my carrier has some issues. IPv6?	13:18
DocScrutinizer	migth have to use mtr a bit	13:18
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roofboard	argh! i cannot figure out how to add more repositories! can anybody help?	13:22
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bkalinga	gconftool-2 shows different value in different console (I logged in multiple terminals to the tablet )	13:23
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roofboard	nobody?	13:29
timoph	roofboard: zypper ar http://repourl repo-name	13:30
timoph	as root or with sudo	13:30
timoph	then zypper ref and of you go installing things :)	13:31
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roofboard	like this? sudo zypper ar https://git.gitorious.org/meego-community-extras-client/client.git	13:31
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roofboard	rather... sudo zypper ar git://gitorious.org/meego-community-extras-client/client.git	13:33
timoph	well that won't work	13:34
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timoph	you're trying to add a git repo instead of a rpm repo	13:34
roofboard	ok, so gits dont work?	13:35
timoph	git == version control for source code not packages	13:35
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roofboard	oh, ok.	13:36
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roofboard	well, i tried this http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=567	13:39
roofboard	no luck.	13:39
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roofboard	everybody seems to refrence adding repositories that i guess arent repositories.	13:39
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roofboard	does anybody know of a good guide online for adding repos to meego?	13:44
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goshakkk	hey everybody	13:44
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goshakkk	can anybody tell me how can I send notifications to Events screen from Harmattan app?	13:45
roofboard	goshakkk: have you managed to add repositories to meego?	13:46
goshakkk	roofboard: I have no Nokia N9 Devkit, how can I?	13:47
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priyanka	has anybody worked on SMACK with meego	13:48
roofboard	goshakkk: nevermind, ive just been beading my head against the wall trying to get a new repo on here.	13:48
goshakkk	roofboard: ok. So I presume you haven't worked with Notifications and Events screen in MeeGo/Harmattan, right>	13:50
goshakkk	right?*	13:50
lcuk	roofboard, which system?	13:50
roofboard	goshakkk: no never heard of it	13:51
roofboard	meego 1.2 notebook	13:51
goshakkk	roofboard: clear	13:51
goshakkk	So no one have worked with notifications in harmattan???	13:52
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roofboard	lcuk: what up? do you know how to get new repos?	13:52
Stskeeps	goshakkk: please ask on the appropiate harmattan development forums, if it's not qt, qt mobility it doesn't belong here	13:52
andre__	goshakkk, this is a MeeGo upstream channel. You talk about an unreleased downstream implementation.	13:52
goshakkk	Stskeeps andre__: ok	13:53
lcuk	roofboard, new repos to do what?	13:53
Stskeeps	developers.nokia.com would be a good start	13:53
goshakkk	Stskeeps: thanks	13:54
roofboard	well, i cannot find a good process manager in the stock repos so i am looking to add a new repository maybe the fedora one	13:54
lcuk	roofboard, are fedora repositories meego compatible?	13:55
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roofboard	i have no idea!	13:55
lcuk	is that not like trying to install an installshield exe in linux?	13:55
lcuk	why not just add debian repos!?	13:56
timoph	lcuk: o/	13:56
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roofboard	i didnt know i could use .deb	13:56
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roofboard	then i guess i could use the repos from ubuntu	13:57
roofboard	but reguardless i cannot seem to get them into the package manager!	13:57
lcuk	hiya timoph \o	13:57
lcuk	http://wiki.meego.com/Build_Infrastructure/Community_Builder/ITP#P	13:57
roofboard	and im not that good with command line	13:57
lcuk	has game repository	13:57
lcuk	timoph, the space invaders game is qml/qt based	13:57
timoph	cool	13:57
timoph	oh. haven't been keeping my doings in synch with that page :/	13:58
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lcuk	timoph, its not requirement of course, but it is good to explain to others	13:59
timoph	yep. helps to avoid duplicate work	13:59
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lcuk	roofboard, the available packages directly on meego are not end user full complete every bit of source code ever created since mankind evolved	14:00
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lcuk	but only the required bits for the ux	14:00
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roofboard	rightr so i should just have to manually compile everything i want to install?	14:01
roofboard	ok, i got the game,	14:01
timoph	I prefer to package the things I need	14:01
lcuk	roofboard, :D	14:01
roofboard	what does that mean?	14:02
timoph	packaging?	14:02
lcuk	follow timoph, he is doing the "build your own lightsabre" approach	14:02
lcuk	and storing the results on his own repository	14:02
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timoph	roofboard: since you seem to be new to packaging I'm sure other (including me) will help you get needed software packaged if you just ask politely :)	14:04
roofboard	darn as soon as things start happening its for now i have to make rounds for a few hours :-(	14:05
roofboard	four	14:05
Aranel	I want to test newest translations from Transifex, but It looks like my MeeGo 1.2 uses older versions of them. How can I update it?	14:05
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timoph	roofboard: post the things you are missing to the forums. easier to follow them there	14:05
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timoph	oh. he left already..	14:07
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MeeGoExperts	Reminder: Want to know more about MeeGo ? Get to Birmingham UK TODAY !!!! http://mge.bz/bX #Meetup #Linux #Intel #OpenSource #Nokia #N9	14:09
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lcuk	MeeGoExperts, do you have lamars classes there?	14:10
MeeGoExperts	For YOU? Yes !	14:10
lcuk	not me	14:11
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MeeGoExperts	:-(	14:11
* lcuk not giving birth :P		14:11
MeeGoExperts	You still coming ?	14:11
jussi	Can anyone point me to how to get Harmattan running in vmware/qemu or so?	14:11
timoph	developer.nokia.com or something?	14:12
lcuk	don't think so, she is pottering around between show and waters	14:12
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* lcuk wearing mac and wellies		14:12
MeeGoExperts	Make it if you can. It should be good :-)	14:12
* jussi wants to play/start investigating the system		14:12
lcuk	of course it should be good	14:12
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MeeGoExperts	:-)	14:12
MeeGoExperts	Better if you came …. obviously :-)	14:13
iekku	jussi, i think the timoph's answer is the only correct one	14:13
jussi	iekku: a little more detail would be helpful...	14:14
Stskeeps	jussi: harmattan's practically maemo6, so looking at it would require grabbing nokia's material for it, sdks, etc	14:15
lcuk	villager!	14:16
iekku	http://www.developer.nokia.com/Devices/MeeGo/	14:16
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iekku	there's the public information	14:16
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* timoph is off to spend mid-summer in beautiful eastern Finland		14:17
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lcuk	timoph, \o/	14:17
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X-Fade	timoph: And packaging games I guess? :)	14:17
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iekku	timoph, have a nice trip!	14:17
X-Fade	timoph: Enjoy midsummer :)	14:17
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timoph	X-Fade: most likely - especially if it rains :)	14:18
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lcuk	timoph, enjoy your vacation	14:18
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timoph	o/	14:18
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X-Fade	timoph: hehe, well let's hope you have nice weather. Get away from it all..	14:19
lbt	timoph: enjoy :)	14:19
kirma	doesn't look too picturesque in helsinki	14:20
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kirma	cold, rainy and even towards being stormy - elop style treatment for positive attitudes	14:21
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dm8tbr	timoph / leo - the images are done by anab1s, there should be a kickstart file together with it which should make it possible to follow up the changes	14:28
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lbt	MeeGoExperts: pingy	14:29
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Nils^	hi. Is anyone using meego on the n900 for daily use yet?	14:42
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Stskeeps	some are trying, but it's definately close	14:42
Stskeeps	try it out for yourself and submit bug reports	14:42
roofboard	hey... its repository guy again!	14:42
Stskeeps	you better be better than PNG guy	14:43
roofboard	i got a question am i on the right path i am trying to add this repository well... is this what i should be looking at?	14:43
roofboard	https://gitorious.org/meego-community-extras-client	14:43
X-Fade	roofboard: No, that doesn't do anything for you yet.	14:44
roofboard	anybody have a good write up to help me expand my list of software options?	14:45
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lcuk	Nils^, it took a massive step closer when we got N900-maemo contacts to be visible and accessible on n900-ce	14:47
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lcuk	as long as you export your contacts from maemo (simple, just open contacts and use the export menu, use default options)	14:47
lcuk	then whn you flash the meego-ce image, it will mount the eMMC partition and import your contacts	14:48
lcuk	o starting meego with a full complement of friends	14:48
roofboard	ok, well is their a meego-notebook forum?	14:49
lcuk	roofboard, I heard from DawnFoster that she has office installed on her netbook	14:50
bkalinga	i have installed libxkbfile-devel in my qemu terminal; is there a way i can make these available in my MeeGo SDK; so that i can compile meegotouch-inputmethodkeyboard component using meego-sdk-qtcreator on my Ubuntu Host machine	14:50
lcuk	so it is possible to add extra repositories	14:50
lcuk	I just don't know which they are	14:50
roofboard	interesting,	14:51
roofboard	i just need to google dawn...	14:51
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bkalinga	i just don't get why MeeGo SDK is not developer friendly or i have some fundamentally wrong concept how to use an SKD :(	14:54
lcuk	bkalinga, elite class developers only	14:54
lcuk	you must level up	14:54
MSM	bkalinga yum install beer first	14:55
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bkalinga	my fundamental says SDK should give all the dependencies to build the code, else some how we can add the missing component to it	14:57
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Nils^	stskeeps, lcuk: I'm doing a maemo backup right now and then I will try to install meego	14:57
lcuk	bkalinga, what sdk do you have and what are you trying to build?	14:57
lcuk	Nils^, \o/	14:58
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lcuk	if you are installing onto MicroSD, flashing the kernel in once only mode is simple and unobtrusive	14:58
bkalinga	i have MeeGo 1.2 sdk and trying to build meegotouch-inputmethodkeyboard taken from git	14:58
lcuk	bkalinga, ok	14:58
lcuk	call into #meego-inputmethods	14:58
bkalinga	now libxkbfile-devel is missing in my MeeGo 1.2 SDK	14:58
Nils^	lcuk: has internal install better performance?	14:58
lcuk	and ask for hint on whether your sdk is configured correctly	14:59
lcuk	or what else you need to build	14:59
Nils^	I have a backup now, I don't care if my maemo breaks. I have to reflash it anyway since custom kernels and apps broke the system partly	14:59
bkalinga	how #meego-inputmethods will help me if libxkbfile-devel is missing in my system	14:59
lcuk	Nils^, it removes ability to maintain maemo	14:59
lcuk	which is very negative	14:59
bkalinga	i can install that using zypper install libxkbfile-devel	15:00
lcuk	bkalinga, because the inputmethods people build the inputmethodkeyboard everyday	15:00
bkalinga	but after installing that is part of runtime	15:00
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* lcuk bangs head		15:00
lcuk	bkalinga, so if it is installed what is the problem?	15:00
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Nils^	lcuk: maintain maemo means...? Can I reflash with maemo if I want it back?	15:00
kavacha	I am trying to use mic-image-creator, I have updated the .ks file to add my own repo, and added the extra packages that I want. But it does not just add the packages I want to the image it adds the contents of the whole repo	15:01
lcuk	Nils^, you can reflash it yeah	15:01
bkalinga	zypper install libxkbfile-devel makes the package part of meego-tablet-ia32-qemu-1.2.0.90.0.20110517.1-runtime	15:01
lcuk	but to date the normal meego build has been onto microsd and simpler	15:01
lcuk	:)	15:01
kavacha	any idea how I can jsut get it to add the 2 packages that I want ?	15:01
Nils^	lcuk: as long I can go back to the factory settings its ok.	15:01
lcuk	:D Nils^ let us know your experiences then	15:02
bkalinga	but not available in my build libraries (i build using meego-sdk-qtcreator)	15:02
lcuk	bkalinga, application sdk vs system sdk?	15:03
bkalinga	luck: in wiki its given that we can follow 2 approaches	15:03
bkalinga	one is qemu	15:03
bkalinga	one is Xypher	15:04
bkalinga	i am following QEMU	15:04
bkalinga	i installed MeeGo1.2 SDK	15:04
bkalinga	then launch meego-tablet-ia32-qemu-1.2.0.90.0.20110517.1-runtime	15:04
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bkalinga	then login to it using ssh meego@127.0.0.1 -p 6666	15:05
bkalinga	now i get the qemu console there i can install the libxkbfile-devel	15:05
bkalinga	using zypper install libxkbfile-devel	15:05
lcuk	bkalinga, ok and which git repository did you get the latest inputmethodskeyboard package from	15:05
alterego	lcuk: any mail today?	15:06
alterego	(post)	15:06
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bkalinga	luck:# On branch master	15:07
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bkalinga	luck :/usr/lib/madde/linux-i686/sysroots/meego-tablet-ia32-madde-sysroot-1.2.0.90.0.20110517.1-fs/ this contains the SDK header file and libraries	15:08
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bkalinga	now is there any elegant way so that we can add missing component to the SDK	15:08
lcuk	luovanto	15:09
lcuk		15:09
lcuk	@lcuk N950 in use? I simply want liqbase to Ovi Store asap and will learn to code myself if that's it what it takes :)	15:09
* alterego chuckles		15:09
SpeedEvil	Would - in principle - liqbase be the 'window manager'	15:09
lcuk	nice words from the designer of swipe.nokia.com	15:09
alterego	Who said that lcuk ?	15:09
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alterego	Ah luovanto	15:09
lcuk	i showed the project_42 screenshot from last night http://liqbase.net/liq.20110623_015300.liqbase-playground.scr.png	15:10
X-Fade	Hehe, those videos of luovanto with the device walking through singapore. Priceless :)	15:10
lcuk	berndhs offered the name for the new programming language	15:10
pabs3	X-Fade: got a link?	15:11
X-Fade	pabs3: In the initial Engadget article.	15:11
Nils^	lcuk: do you know where the contact backup file is if I exported it with the internal maemo export?	15:16
lcuk	Nils^, on English devices:	15:16
lcuk	MyDocs/Exported contacts/*.vcard	15:16
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lcuk	one file per contact	15:16
lcuk		15:17
lcuk	luovanto Jussi Mäkinen	15:17
lcuk	@lcuk & @jaffa2 Consider it taken care of as I get back to Finland.	15:17
lcuk	Jaffa, :D:D:D	15:17
Nils^	ah, I had to update my sftp client..	15:17
* lcuk does a little dance		15:18
alterego	That's not fair.	15:18
alterego	What about me!	15:18
* alterego chuckles		15:18
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jussi	Bah, too many finns involved with meego, so much chance of random hilights	15:18
lcuk	jussi, :D	15:19
SpeedEvil	lcuk: It couldn't have happened to a more deserving person.	15:20
SpeedEvil	(that I can remember at the moment - there probably are 391 people I've just moretally offended)	15:20
alterego	lcuk: tell him to send me one if you want me help :P	15:20
lcuk	:)	15:20
lcuk	I do want your help alterego	15:20
lcuk	you know what we discussed last weekend, and to do even some of it will need all the various OSes around Nokia ;)	15:21
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pexi	http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/22/editorial-dear-nokia-you-cannot-be-serious/	15:22
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Nils^	mg-handset-armv7nhl-n900-ce-stable/ 22.06.2011 23:46 -	15:22
alterego	lcuk: see tweet :P	15:22
Nils^	mg-handset-armv7nhl-n900-ce-testing/	15:22
Nils^	which of these?	15:22
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lcuk	alterego, seen and noted :)	15:24
alterego	Hah, that isn't a contractual obligation!	15:25
* alterego chuckles		15:25
alterego	But you have my help :)	15:25
lcuk	alterego, will need the help of quite a few more if we are to bring meego together properly	15:26
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alterego	Indeed	15:26
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alterego	lcuk: have you had mail today?	15:32
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lcuk	alterego, yes but only with lukes clothes mountain	15:35
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alterego	:)	15:35
lcuk	he ordered a couple of pairs of shoes and a mountain of new gear	15:35
alterego	shit: http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/23/nokias-first-windows-phone-images-and-video/	15:36
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Termana	OOOOHHH	15:37
Termana	TROLOLOLOLO	15:37
Termana	You all been trolled	15:37
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Nils^	I have a problem with flashing. the flasher says Unable to enumerate USB devices!	15:38
lcuk	alterego, hackers device.	15:39
lcuk	chill	15:39
Nils^	is this a problem that can be solved with -u Specifiy an alternate usb interface. Default usb0 (optional)	15:39
Nils^	?	15:39
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alterego	Nils^: -U is of the format 0000:0000	15:40
alterego	You need to use lsusb to find the the bus and device numbers	15:40
Nils^	Bus 001 Device 014: ID 0421:01c7 Nokia Mobile Phones N900 (Storage Mode)	15:40
alterego	Sorry it's 000:000	15:40
alterego	So something like -U 002:003	15:40
Termana	alterego, I'd like to see what else he said, more than what's in the video	15:40
alterego	Termana: yeah.	15:41
alterego	"Oh change of rules _you_ need an N9 or N950 to get in tonight"	15:41
alterego	What a joker :P	15:41
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lcuk	DocScrutinizer, ping	15:45
DocScrutinizer	lcuk: pong	15:45
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DocScrutinizer	moo wazzup?	15:46
lcuk	hey Doc, we seem to have a small niggle in the n900-ce	15:46
lcuk	relating to keyboard backlights	15:46
DocScrutinizer	shoot	15:46
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lcuk	we don't know how to get them to turn on properly	15:46
DocScrutinizer	aah	15:46
DocScrutinizer	you need access to LP5523	15:46
DocScrutinizer	sysfs	15:47
lcuk	i think it is related to maliit/input methods too so mikhas and araujo would normally be pinged	15:47
lcuk	ahh	15:47
lcuk	similar to how MohammadAG turned on the knight rider lights?	15:47
DocScrutinizer	yep	15:47
lcuk	ahh	15:47
lcuk	but was that not monitored by mce or something?	15:48
lcuk	i remember having to disable something	15:48
DocScrutinizer	I discourrage following mce's idiotic method of wasting an engine for that	15:48
lcuk	sure	15:48
lcuk	we are in meego	15:48
lcuk	so not same issue	15:48
lcuk	:) just discussing what has been highlighted as an issue	15:48
ShadowJK	knight rider lights? :)	15:48
lcuk	ShadowJK, MohammadAG showed me a script to turn each light on the n900 keyboard on	15:49
DocScrutinizer	if your 'mce' doesn't do that engine3-foo then simply echo 100>kb-led:*/brightness	15:49
lcuk	wanted to do a VU with them	15:49
lcuk	so I did knight rider thing with em ;)	15:49
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DocScrutinizer	/sys/class/leds/lp5523:kb1/brightness	15:50
DocScrutinizer	...kb6/	15:50
ShadowJK	well, start it in meego, ctrl-c, and check if it stays in the position you stopped it in. Expose als to different levels of light, close/pen keyboard. If leds went out, some app turned them off	15:50
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DocScrutinizer	some app? ;-P	15:51
DocScrutinizer	~lart mce	15:51
* infobot installs PocketPC on mce's PDA		15:51
ShadowJK	led_current seems to work better than brightness. try 50 for led current, maemo seems to use that	15:52
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MohammadAG	ShadowJK, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3pvdFpA1II :P	15:53
DocScrutinizer	you might want to check /sys/class/leds/lp5523:kb*/led_current which is 50 on maemo	15:53
DocScrutinizer	meh, ShadowJK beaten me	15:53
DocScrutinizer	I recommend not to play too much with led_current, it's just the setting for max allowable electrical current thru LED, and you might burn LED when messing with this value	15:55
DocScrutinizer	unit 0.1mA iirc	15:55
ShadowJK	brightness seems to do nothing	15:55
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DocScrutinizer	so 5mA sounds about right for that type of component	15:56
ShadowJK	0, 100, 255. emitted light doesn't change	15:56
ShadowJK	seems only led_current makes any difference	15:56
DocScrutinizer	strange	15:56
DocScrutinizer	make sure engine is disabled	15:56
DocScrutinizer	also, for obvious reasons, don't enter any command on device's kbd ;-P	15:57
DocScrutinizer	or simply kill mce	15:57
DocScrutinizer	the bugger	15:57
DocScrutinizer	also check you haven't got that broken LP5523 driver that comes with powerkernel, it has a "fix" that's breaking more than it actually fixes	16:00
* ShadowJK doesn't have powerkernel		16:00
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DocScrutinizer	yeah, I see same problem here atm, alas I can't follow up and investigate right now, have to get fuel for gray mater	16:01
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DocScrutinizer	I know however I played with this stuff last year when moh asked me how to build such knightrider thing iirc, and I'm sure I didn't touch led_current	16:02
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DocScrutinizer	/sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-2/2-0032/	16:06
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DocScrutinizer	cat /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-2/2-0032/engine3_mode ;# probably	16:07
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DocScrutinizer	echo load >/sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-2/2-0032/engine3_mode; echo 255 >/sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-2/2-0032/leds\:lp5523\:kb3/brightness	16:13
DocScrutinizer	works on completely idle and locked device	16:13
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DocScrutinizer	HTH	16:13
DocScrutinizer	o/	16:13
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Nils^	FINALLY its flashing.. i hope.. I see something on the n900 screen but its very dark.	16:14
Stskeeps	give it a bit	16:14
Nils^	it says something about cannot assign (network) adress. But that shouldn't be a problem I guess	16:14
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Jaffa	lcuk: :-)	16:16
Jaffa	lcuk: But luovanto could be taking a traditional Nordic summer holiday and spending 6 weeks in Asia ;-)	16:16
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lcuk	Jaffa, that is ok by me	16:20
lcuk	I have waited long enough to see this, a few more weeks are ok by me :)	16:20
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Nils^	should I see anything during installl? anywhere?	16:21
Nils^	n900 inst	16:21
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lcuk	Nils^, dd copy is mostly void of illumination	16:23
lcuk	would you like to offer a patch to allow playing games whilst dd progresses?	16:23
DocScrutinizer	lcuk: you seen my last cmdline post?	16:24
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lcuk	DocScrutinizer, oh awesome	16:25
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lcuk	is that on meego-ce?	16:25
DocScrutinizer	just make sure yiur led_current is on 50 (default)	16:25
lcuk	have you tried the summer version?	16:25
DocScrutinizer	nope, maemo	16:25
DocScrutinizer	sysfs path may differ on meego	16:25
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DocScrutinizer	suggest find /sys -name '5523'	16:26
DocScrutinizer	(which is btw how a lot of system scripts deal with the ever changing sysfs pathnames)	16:27
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DocScrutinizer	can I have my N9 with meego-proper and kbd now, please? ;-P	16:28
Termana	You can have an N9 with meego-proper	16:29
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Termana	and I can tape a bluetooth keyboard on for you	16:29
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DocScrutinizer	with plutonium cell for power please	16:30
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Nils^	lcuk: since 20 minutes the n900 screen shows "Starting netcat for initial connection check". or maybe something different, its hard to read. there seems to be no light in the screen. its dark-grey on black :)	16:38
Stskeeps	Nils^: ah, you're doing emmc install	16:39
lcuk	Nils^, did you install the normal way onto microsd, or did you try the eMMC	16:39
Nils^	eMMC	16:39
Nils^	this is my host terminal output http://pastebin.com/2LPbQvvN	16:39
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DocScrutinizer	what kind of "mce" do you guys use for meego ?	16:42
Termana	alterego, full video: http://www.technet.hu/telefon/20110624/exkluziv_video_elop_bemutatja_az_elso_windowsos_nokiat/	16:42
Stskeeps	DocScrutinizer: mce	16:42
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DocScrutinizer	aaaah, yes. Does it mess with kbd backlight?	16:43
Stskeeps	not afaik	16:43
Stskeeps	well, not atm	16:43
DocScrutinizer	fair enough	16:43
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t_j	anyone know if its possible to run on a CPU that does not have SSE3?	16:43
Stskeeps	yes, but it wouldn't be meego/meego compliant	16:44
DocScrutinizer	then the echo load >engine3 maybe isn't needed, but maybe some other init stuff for LP5523 isn't done properly without mce	16:44
t_j	Stskeeps: i guess i would have to build my own version? looking for something to run navigation on an old via c3 1.2ghz board	16:46
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Stskeeps	t_j: yeah, basically, set up a obs, import meego source, modify compiler flags, let it brew for a week	16:47
t_j	Stskeeps: i cant cross build on a fater box for it?	16:47
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Stskeeps	t_j: well, obs would be on a faster box ;)	16:48
t_j	humm its IVI nagigation seems to just be navit..	16:49
alterego	Termana: can't watch it right now, is it as bleak as that post seems to infur?	16:50
DocScrutinizer	could somebody test >> for led in `find /sys -name 'leds:lp5523*kb?'`; do echo $led; echo 255 >${led}/brightness; done	16:51
Termana	alterego, I'm not sure. It's 21 minutes, I'm only 3 into it. It's not loading well, keeps buffering.	16:51
DocScrutinizer	and tell me if this lights up kbd backlight	16:51
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Stskeeps	t_j: there should be better qt based things out there, it's just a reference anyway	16:52
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DocScrutinizer	Stskeeps: is mce managin indicator patterns as usual?	16:54
Stskeeps	DocScrutinizer: afaik	16:54
qgil	Hi, someone is asking in the MeeGo forum how to force fullscreen in a Qt Quick app using components but I can't find the documentation or a code example.	16:54
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Stskeeps	qgil: mainWindow.something, probably	16:54
qgil	My usual contacts are out of reach, probably in their way to the Finnish countryside since a long weekend is just starting :)	16:54
DocScrutinizer	so module lp5523 should be loaded	16:54
Stskeeps	qgil: mainWindow.showFullScreen(), i think	16:54
DocScrutinizer	hi qgil	16:55
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alterego	it should be showFullScreen()	16:56
DocScrutinizer	Stskeeps: could you take a minute to test that shell cmdline ^^^ ?	16:56
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alterego	How are qt components apps launched?	16:56
alterego	Not qmlviewer?	16:56
Stskeeps	DocScrutinizer: i'm deep in fixing glibc and my n900 with meego is charging	16:56
DocScrutinizer	oh, so not then :-)	16:57
alterego	I'll do it, hang on.	16:57
DocScrutinizer	:-)	16:57
DocScrutinizer	thanks	16:57
qgil	thanks!	16:57
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lcuk	\o qgil	16:58
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DocScrutinizer	I think lcuk should test it ;-P he asked	16:58
DocScrutinizer	lcuk: for led in `find /sys -name 'leds:lp5523*kb?'`; do echo $led; echo 255 >${led}/brightness; done	16:59
lcuk	DocScrutinizer, yes, sidetracked with family will test when I boot it up in a short while	16:59
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Nils^	ok.. 40 minutes of initial netcat is enough. This looks like the install is totally stuck	17:00
DocScrutinizer	hah, yeah	17:01
Stskeeps	Nils^: i'd put it in a wall charger by now	17:01
Nils^	Stskeeps: I have the usb port blocked by the usb cable :)	17:01
DocScrutinizer	which is good enough for chager	17:02
Nils^	after ctrl+c there is something new on the display, but its so hard to read...	17:02
alterego	DocScrutinizer: yes it works	17:02
DocScrutinizer	thanks	17:02
alterego	I now have a backlit keyboard ;)	17:03
qgil	alterego: URL anywhere? In the docs I can onmly can find references about QmainWindow	17:03
alterego	qgil: I'm not sure with qt components, do you know how they're launching the application?	17:03
Nils^	expecting image type: bz2; checking where to write the image; can't open /some/path no such file or directory	17:03
DocScrutinizer	so, if you're keen to see that friggin fade-in/out effect of maemo for kbs bl, do it in a for loop via sw, ramping up brightness from 0...255 - don't use engine_3 of lp5523 for that as mce in maemo does, please	17:04
Nils^	well this looks like an error	17:04
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lcuk	qgil, high 5 on the n9 :) most impressive to see it	17:05
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qgil	alterego: a guy is asking how to do this with QWidget, and my answer is that he should go better for Qt Quick - and I want to send him to the right doc page describing how to use mainWindow	17:05
qgil	thx lcuk - finally I can do something better than putting a poker face	17:06
lcuk	hope this means more villagers now for the next conference	17:06
* gabrbedd cues Lady Gaga		17:07
DocScrutinizer	or, at very least, don't permanently occupy one engine for that. As indicator light and kbd bl ramp-up/down are virtually mutually exclusive usecases, you could use one engine to do the ramping for kbd, the restore that engine to previous state and free it up again	17:07
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alterego	qgil: using qwidget is fine, he just needs to call showFullScreen in his C++ code instead of show()	17:07
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qgil	alterego: http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=23114&postcount=4	17:08
qgil	"QWidget::showFullScreen() doesn't work on Harmattan (at least in QEMU-runtime)."	17:09
alterego	Interesting ..	17:10
Stskeeps	that sounds worrying	17:10
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Stskeeps	qgil: ask the guy to dpkg -e meegotouch-qt-style or whatever it's named and see if it helps any (even though it de-theme's stuff)	17:10
* Stskeeps has to go to dinner		17:10
Stskeeps	bbl	17:10
DocScrutinizer	lcuk: alterego confirmed the cmdline works	17:10
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alterego	Okay, I'll recommend he put his qwidget in a main window using setCentralWidget	17:11
Nils^	I'm flashing maemo back and then try to install meego on a microsd card	17:11
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alterego	Unless you wanna? :)	17:12
DocScrutinizer	qgil: any chances to get the N9(50) hw schematics (under NDA if needed) to help me give technical advice for that device?	17:12
lcuk	++ if possible from me	17:12
alterego	I think he should get them too :)	17:12
* MohammadAG votes for that too		17:13
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alterego	Really looking forward to getting Columbus working on an N9(50) with magnetic compass :)	17:14
SpeedEvil	:)	17:14
alterego	And it'll force me to QML-ify the rest.	17:14
MohammadAG	I have lots of projects in mind	17:14
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alterego	It's gonna look so cool, those rings in my compass widget were intended to show both gps bearing and compass needle :)	17:15
alterego	But now I can tell which way the device is oriented! :D	17:15
qgil	alterego: I've posted a reply	17:15
MohammadAG	oh right, we have a compass :D	17:15
alterego	Okay, cheers,	17:15
alterego	There looks to be an actual compass app already, But Columbus is obviously better ;)	17:15
alterego	It'll also mean I can get it updated for maemo5, meego ce and harmattan	17:16
alterego	Should be cool.	17:16
qgil	QWidget might sound like a good idea for someone used to it, but then if you look at the rest of the questions you see that he will probably have a better live with Qt Quick & components: nice swipes and text forms knowing how to deal automatically with the hardware keyboard	17:16
qgil	DocScrutinizer: contact http://developer.nokia.com for any professional related requests	17:17
DocScrutinizer	qgil: will do	17:17
DocScrutinizer	alas I think they aren't interested	17:17
alterego	qgil: I was told that usb host should be easier in N9(50) devices, do you have any info on that?	17:18
lcuk	DocScrutinizer, apply for a developer device	17:18
DocScrutinizer	as that's strictly community, not professional	17:18
ShadowJK	DocScrutinizer, do let me know if you get a device and if you find bq* or other documented bms related chips :-)	17:18
DocScrutinizer	lcuk: I did	17:18
lcuk	and put your very clear reasoning and what beneifts you can bring	17:18
alterego	And how it might be different to N900?	17:18
lcuk	good :)	17:18
lcuk	then those that are not daft will examine and check and see whats what	17:18
lcuk	you do not know until you hear back	17:18
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* ShadowJK 'd want to make a realtime power gauge tool for N9 too, but it's always hardware specific stuff		17:19
DocScrutinizer	lcuk: (very clear reasoning) too late :-) I just mentioned general hw, low level drive, and kernel stuff, incl apps to fix thing, and referred to konttori for the rest	17:20
lcuk	you can modify your submission	17:21
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DocScrutinizer	aaah, might do	17:21
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DocScrutinizer	won't help for the schematics either way	17:21
lcuk	I have heard about some great potential projects for this	17:21
lcuk	maybe, maybe not	17:21
lcuk	but it would hark back to the Amiga days	17:21
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lcuk	where out of the box you got schematics	17:21
DocScrutinizer	yeah	17:22
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ShadowJK	speaking of schematics, seen what google has done for accessories?	17:22
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Termana	ShadowJK, what?	17:23
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qgil	DocScrutinizer: well, in the way you describe it it is not easy even for me to see the interest :)	17:25
DocScrutinizer	of schematics sharing?	17:25
qgil	alterego: no idea about usb-host but if you can get ahold of Kate Alhola I suspect she knows	17:25
DocScrutinizer	or of application for DDP	17:25
qgil	DocScrutinizer: "community" and "NDA" don'0t mix well, that is the problem	17:26
DocScrutinizer	I'm aware of that problem	17:27
ShadowJK	Android Open Accessory kit. Specs for talking and interfacing to android devices. The net is now full of electronics kits with MCUs and some I/O, for building oyour own add-on and rapid prototyping :)	17:27
qgil	DocScrutinizer: looks difficult to circunvent	17:27
DocScrutinizer	I don't know about Nokia internals, but I can see this getting difficult, yes	17:28
DocScrutinizer	I learned the hard way from inside how hard it is to disclose hw related things ;-)	17:29
alterego	qgil: how long after the closing date of N9 devkit ddp do you expect to send out notices and devices? (Though I guess devices are up to developer.nokia.com)	17:29
DocScrutinizer	even while this isn't exactly "disclosing" it would still need an NDA to not be that	17:29
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DocScrutinizer	NDAs with non-contractors are very hard to issue usually	17:30
alterego	DocScrutinizer: wondering whether you're more likely to get the schematics for N950 over N9	17:30
DocScrutinizer	sorry?	17:30
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alterego	I'm wondering whether you're more likely to get schematics for the N950 rather than the N9	17:32
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alterego	If you were thinking of asking for the latter.	17:32
alterego	Admittedly the should be somewhat identical.	17:32
DocScrutinizer	that's been my point of asking for N9(50) schematics	17:33
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DocScrutinizer	I guess N9 won't fly no matter what, until first N9 hit the public somehow	17:33
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alterego	Indeed.	17:34
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DocScrutinizer	for N950 if I'd receive a developer device, I already got whole the info that's in schematic, though admittedly in a very hard to read formatting ;-)	17:34
alterego	Heh :)	17:35
alterego	I expect you to do the first disassembly ;)	17:35
DocScrutinizer	there's no secret in schematics that's not in device hw as well, and can get out from there as well	17:35
dm8tbr	DocScrutinizer: usb-host adaptation for n9(50) is on the top of my todo list if I get one	17:36
dm8tbr	shouldn't be that hard, did similar things for other OMAP3 hardware	17:36
MohammadAG	I'm interested in how to disassemble the N9 :P	17:36
DocScrutinizer	dm8tbr: I never had succeeded on H-E-N without the N900 schematicsa	17:36
MohammadAG	only way I can think of is prying the glass from the body	17:37
dm8tbr	MohammadAG: I think it actually is something like that	17:37
dm8tbr	MohammadAG: somebody mentioned that after I said that taking the back off the n950 is funky	17:37
MohammadAG	dm8tbr, that would ruin one of either parts	17:38
dm8tbr	yesterday at the meegofi picnic	17:38
dm8tbr	MohammadAG: I guess the service manual will surface at some point :)	17:38
dm8tbr	besides this thing is obviously not intended to be taken apart	17:39
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SpeedEvil	Anyway - it's polycarbonate - all you need is a soldering iron to remove the case.	17:39
SpeedEvil	(not of n950)	17:39
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MohammadAG	o_O	17:39
qgil	Ah, Soumya helped me finding a good example of fullscreen app http://library.developer.nokia.com/index.jsp?topic=/MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan_API/html/qt-components/qt-components-example-flickr.html alterego	17:39
DocScrutinizer	I guess Konttori is probably in a better position to do anything about hw docs	17:39
dm8tbr	DocScrutinizer: I talked to jukka and he promised to get me in touch with the right people here in Hervanta	17:39
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alterego	qgil: great :) /me bookmarks ;)	17:40
DocScrutinizer	dm8tbr: regarding what?	17:40
dm8tbr	DocScrutinizer: USB port on the n9	17:40
DocScrutinizer	aah	17:40
DocScrutinizer	well, if it's similar to N900, it's mainly about hw details	17:41
dm8tbr	DocScrutinizer: btw on the n900 there is no 5V on the connector, right? (i know it's a micro-b and not supposed to but you never knwo)	17:41
DocScrutinizer	dm8tbr: sorry?	17:41
DocScrutinizer	dm8tbr: sure we got 5V@200mA VBUS	17:41
dm8tbr	ah, ok	17:41
dm8tbr	that's interesting :)	17:41
DocScrutinizer	one of the details I figured from schematics	17:42
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, you sure the N9 doesn't have the same connector on the N8?	17:42
dm8tbr	yes, such things you can mostly only do with schematics	17:42
DocScrutinizer	and from looking into hw for the actual component used ;-)	17:42
SpeedEvil	To be fair - you could have just tried to enable it from the chip datasheets	17:42
dm8tbr	MohammadAG: I verified it's a micro-b not an micro-ab	17:42
SpeedEvil	But details are hard.	17:42
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: no idea, just know N950 in that video has same B type as N900	17:43
dm8tbr	SpeedEvil: musb is harder usually :)	17:43
SpeedEvil	I know.	17:43
SpeedEvil	dm8tbr: I've read a lot of versions of the TI datasheet on the subject.	17:43
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dm8tbr	I wonder if there is a stable way of switching personality on OMAP3 MUSB _without_ reloading the musb_hdrc kernel module nowadays	17:44
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DocScrutinizer	dm8tbr: SpeedEvil helped a lot on getting H-E-N on its feet	17:44
SpeedEvil	'Can I have a replacement loan device please - my existing one has failed due to low quality construction. All the components fell off the PCB, and the chips appear to be burned by acid, exposing all their dies.'	17:45
dm8tbr	:D	17:45
DocScrutinizer	dm8tbr: lol, the problem isn't the kernel module, the problem is the musb core itself	17:45
dm8tbr	you'd probably also have burn marks from the OMAP spontaneously de-poping itself	17:45
dm8tbr	DocScrutinizer: it's a multilevel clusterf*ck as far as I know :)	17:46
SpeedEvil	dm8tbr: I know.	17:46
SpeedEvil	dm8tbr: I've considered in sillier moments a RAM upgrade for the n900.	17:46
dm8tbr	DocScrutinizer: the solution I have seen that works is unloading and reloading musb_hdrc and it works reliably on Archos hardware now in 3rd generation hardware that's omap3 based	17:46
SpeedEvil	I can't find anyone that'll ship the required part though.	17:47
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SpeedEvil	This would also allow a speed bump too - which is nice.	17:47
dm8tbr	SpeedEvil: got the reballing gear? that stuff is awesome	17:47
DocScrutinizer	dm8tbr: we got some special issues at least on N900	17:47
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dm8tbr	yeah, seem to remember that on n900 there was some external part involved too	17:47
SpeedEvil	dm8tbr: No. I think that reflowing the POP should be possible fairly ghetto.	17:47
DocScrutinizer	dm8tbr: which made Nokia claim hostmode is impossible on N900, until we implemented it nevertheless	17:48
SpeedEvil	dm8tbr: Simply doing it in a nitrogen atmosphere.	17:48
SpeedEvil	They diddn't.	17:48
SpeedEvil	They said OTG wasn't possible.	17:48
SpeedEvil	And it's not.	17:48
dm8tbr	let's not talk about OTG :D	17:48
dm8tbr	just host mode will be enough	17:48
SpeedEvil	Indeed.	17:48
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: not exactly	17:49
DocScrutinizer	I seem to recall somebody (paul, sarah?) asked explicitely about hostmode sw driven, and the answer was as usual	17:49
DocScrutinizer	and hell they were almost right	17:50
SpeedEvil	Ok - fair enough. The initial comment was that OTG wasn't possible, and my memory is that all of the subsequent queries diddn't really address if hostmode was possible.	17:50
DocScrutinizer	if there wasn't TEST_HOSTMODE	17:50
DocScrutinizer	err FORCE_HOSTMODE	17:50
DocScrutinizer	dm8tbr: so you might have guessed it, we're already keen to see if H-E-N might work on N9-50	17:51
DocScrutinizer	you're more than welcome to join the team	17:52
DocScrutinizer	:-)	17:52
dm8tbr	btw: is the collected n900 host mode stuff available as a wiki page or so? I just dont feel like reading 250 pages thread	17:52
dm8tbr	DocScrutinizer: I would have been _very_ disappointed if you guys wouldn't be	17:52
DocScrutinizer	alas the compression factor isn't really better the 1:10	17:52
DocScrutinizer	so you still would end with 25 pages	17:52
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dm8tbr	still I prefer high SNR :)	17:53
DocScrutinizer	sure	17:53
DocScrutinizer	but it's just too much work probably, so nobody did theat duty yet	17:53
dm8tbr	nod	17:53
dm8tbr	btw: does the n900CE support the HEN thing?	17:54
DocScrutinizer	I once started with an effort to keep a double linked list on tmo once, from useful post to useful post	17:54
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DocScrutinizer	I gave up	17:54
DocScrutinizer	(n900ce) dunno, should if they get the right kernel patches	17:55
dm8tbr	for me wiki pages work better for those things, the number of people necessary for pages to flourish is surprisingly low	17:55
DocScrutinizer	it's basically just kernel patches	17:56
dm8tbr	we should talk to kimju then	17:56
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DocScrutinizer	well, either we get hostmode running "ootb" as everything's absolutely standard, or we have a very hard time unless we get schematics	17:57
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DocScrutinizer	for N9(50)	17:57
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dm8tbr	yes, I'm hoping for the former	17:58
dm8tbr	passive USB host should be fairly easy, but totally inelegant	17:59
DocScrutinizer	and while SpeedEvil 's approach is tempting - modulo the acid to free the dies - I think it won't really fly	17:59
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dm8tbr	the interesting bit will be the 5V I guess	17:59
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ctusar	aoeu	18:00
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dm8tbr	i	18:00
TheBootroo	hello	18:00
ShadowJK	If N9 has the same battery charging chip as N900 (bq27200), we should be able to enable 5V out	18:01
Termana	hey TheBootroo	18:01
ShadowJK	after figuring out how to push bme aside for awhile	18:01
ShadowJK	sorry, bq24150, not 27200	18:01
Termana	TheBootroo, that launcher picture you linked to yesterday, I'm wondering, was that just a mock-up or a working example?	18:02
ShadowJK	On N900 there's a .128Ohm "phantom" resistance (not in the leaked schematics, possibly result of poor pcb design?) that makes battery charging about 30-50% slower than it would have to be	18:02
TheBootroo	some of you remember this morning i talk about a new UX i'm trying to dev for MeeGo CE for handset and tablets ? i had posted screenshots, now i have a working test case (not finished though) and overall a gitorious repos whre you can dl and compile onqt sdk for windows / linux / maemo / meego ... no need for a device or emulator it can run on standard computer dekstop, and give feedback	18:02
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: the drivers upstream suggest it's no bq24150 but something like bq24158	18:03
* ShadowJK wonders if that is fixed on N9 too		18:03
TheBootroo	Termana: the answer is in my msg above	18:03
SpeedEvil	DocScrutinizer: No - it's not a functional approach unless you have a professional lab do that. And that's expensive.	18:03
TheBootroo	here is my gitorious for that https://gitorious.org/meego-community-mobile-ux-ng	18:03
SpeedEvil	DocScrutinizer: Reverse engineering properly takes a _lot_ of effort	18:03
SpeedEvil	I got a ping from the BME status bug - it's still closed on n950	18:04
ShadowJK	on the other hand, on N900 the power management chip (Gaia, TWL5030?) also has +5V boost capability, but it's nonfunctional due to missing components	18:04
DocScrutinizer	yep, and that's probably ok, as otherwise we'd get problems with bq24150 charging from twl4030 chargepump ;-P	18:05
SpeedEvil	DocScrutinizer: Don't be silly.	18:05
SpeedEvil	_massive_ new market from the free energy crows.	18:05
SpeedEvil	crowd	18:05
dm8tbr	:D	18:06
dm8tbr	n900, the device that charges itself!	18:06
* SpeedEvil tries to work out the real sie of batery in his UPS.		18:06
* ShadowJK remembers people charging their N810 from N810 musb port in hostmode ...		18:06
DocScrutinizer	dm8tbr: you see it's not that straigt forward quite usually	18:06
jonwil	Will the N9/N950 be using the Maemo5 telephony and networking stack or the MeeGo ofono stack? I havent seen that mentioned anywhere...	18:07
dm8tbr	DocScrutinizer: yeah, archos made it too easy, there it's just a sysfs entry that you toggle to get 5V :)	18:07
Termana	jonwil, not ofono	18:07
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jonwil	so it will be using some up-port of the N900 stack then I guess	18:07
ShadowJK	So if GAIA equivalent has boost capability, we'd need to shove bme aside, tell charger chip to disable charging, enable boost from gaia equivalent :P	18:08
DocScrutinizer	dm8tbr: I recently had a private query for help from an EE that did something "similar to N900" and seems they had exactly that problem with charging	18:08
DocScrutinizer	he nuked a component that way ;-P	18:08
dm8tbr	cue the magic smoke :)	18:09
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: that'd be the 'normal' way, yes	18:09
Termana	dm8tbr, that means it's working! You've kicked the tyres	18:10
Termana	:p	18:10
TheBootroo	Termana: do you like what you see ?	18:10
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Termana	TheBootroo, it looks ok from the screenshot. Not sure whether I would personally use it vs Harmattan's UX but maybe I would use it vs the MeeGo default UX - I would have to try it.	18:11
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TheBootroo	Termana: so try it	18:11
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TheBootroo	Termana: i posted the link to my gitorious	18:12
DocScrutinizer	dm8tbr: you might want to join hostmode channel, you got invited. We're few that left over there, but I guess it's still the most appropriate channel for engineer chitchat about hostmode	18:12
TheBootroo	and ui has changed	18:12
TheBootroo	a littel	18:12
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Termana	TheBootroo, it's 1 AM here and I don't have everything installed to go on a compiling spree right now. But, I'm curious, it seems like your just using in-built icons? So at the moment it has no actually functionality to allow other applications to be shown via .desktop files or whatever?	18:14
Termana	actual*	18:14
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TheBootroo	Termana: it's a prototype for now for it uses test cases	18:15
TheBootroo	but i will impleement freedesktop.org files	18:15
TheBootroo	it does look like this atm (not finished, see the TODO list on the gitorious) : http://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/519347Capture8.png	18:15
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TheBootroo	the way i put a kinda squircle around the icons allow to use standard icons and having the same frame around, just like anna for symbia,	18:17
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Termana	TheBootroo, what would be nice (and I'm not sure if it already does this or is listed in the to-do notes) is if you could click the category bar (say like the bar that says "media") and it would expand and contract the category	18:18
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TheBootroo	Termana: already done	18:20
TheBootroo	miss only a visual indicator for open and closed bars	18:20
TheBootroo	i find this way to do much slicker than subfolders	18:20
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TheBootroo	oh, and the whole ux can scale without a problem from nHD (360x640) to HD ready (1280x720) so it suits for handsets and tablets	18:22
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TheBootroo	here is the thread on forum for comments and suggestions, since i have to go now, http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=3081	18:22
TheBootroo	bye	18:23
TheBootroo	see you tomorow	18:23
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Termana	cya TheBootroo	18:23
TheBootroo	or maybe later tonight if i success to connect from home	18:24
TheBootroo	ciao	18:24
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siavoshkc	whats the SE W810 CPU? can I run meego one it?	18:25
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siavoshkc	on it*	18:25
Stskeeps	doubt it	18:27
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siavoshkc	I searched but was unable to find its platform	18:29
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Stskeeps	signed images, etc	18:29
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siavoshkc	signed images??	18:37
hiemanshu	the ROMs need to be signed	18:39
siavoshkc	what does it had to do with my W810?	18:45
Stskeeps	W810 requires signed images	18:45
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siavoshkc	I will sign it	18:48
siavoshkc	lol	18:48
Termana	I don't think you understand the concept of signed images	18:49
Termana	It means that the hardware will not work without a image loaded on being signed by the manufacture.	18:50
siavoshkc	Termana: what I know about it is that I can't put my image in it	18:50
Termana	You can sign it all you like and it will fail unless you have their private key	18:50
siavoshkc	is it a public key scheme?	18:50
siavoshkc	why not just copy it from current image?	18:52
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hiemanshu	siavoshkc: its not possible to do so, otherwise I would run meego on every other device I have owned :P	18:57
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siavoshkc	what is the barrier?	18:58
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lcuk	good morning DawnFoster \o	19:02
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siavoshkc	ummmm	19:03
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siavoshkc	they shoul create a key by combining private key and image hash	19:04
DawnFoster	hey lcuk	19:04
lcuk	DawnFoster, a few people have been asking of late, where did you get office installed onto your netbook meego install?	19:05
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lcuk	I recall you saying it was installed on yours	19:05
DawnFoster	I installed LibreOffice	19:05
DawnFoster	instructions are on the wiki	19:05
DawnFoster	you have to install java first	19:05
DawnFoster	works pretty well on the latest netbook images	19:06
lcuk	oh cool, so that is http://wiki.meego.com/LibreOffice	19:06
lcuk	DawnFoster, I wonder what it would require to get it properly on obs for a simpler install path	19:07
slaine	I find the netbook a poor device for running those kinds off apps.	19:07
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lcuk	those instructions look kinda similar to liqbase ones too, I suppose in general we need to find a simpler more accessible install mechanism for people	19:08
slaine	The 600 high screen means you loose too much usable space	19:08
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lcuk	slaine, I find only the alt-tab transitions to be most annoying	19:08
lcuk	actually working on the ideapad is difficult because of them	19:08
slaine	I don't mean the UX, I mean office apps and toolbars galor	19:08
lcuk	I tried finding out how to reduce them	19:08
lcuk	simple apps only for me, gedit, console, folder view	19:08
slaine	lcuk, you'd have to edit the mutter plugin	19:08
slaine	snap	19:09
lcuk	but the folder view opens new instances of gedit (instead of tabs)	19:09
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lcuk	so that switching between documents	19:09
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lcuk	induces the awful pan/slide/pan effect	19:09
slaine	I'm running F15 on another partition and finding I'm there more and more now	19:09
lcuk	that is the worst usability issue	19:09
lcuk	it hurts my head muchly whenever I alt-tab	19:10
slaine	You can see a lot of the moblin/meego netbook ux influence in gnome-shell	19:10
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lcuk	can I add an app bar to netbook?	19:10
lcuk	so I can task switch without alttab	19:10
lcuk	like ubuntu/windows even	19:10
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Arkenoi	lcuk, libreoffice sucks big time on underpowered machines, even on my netbook it is hell. If Dataviz makes DtG for Meego i will surely buy it.	19:13
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Arkenoi	i mean ARM version	19:13
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Arkenoi	for x86 it may be marginally acceptable	19:13
Termana	siavoshkc, I suggest you read up on topics such as Trusted Platform Modules, digital signatures, chains of trust	19:14
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Nils^	great, I'm an idiot. 1 1/2 hour to transfer the meego image to my micro sd card and it does not boot because I had a typo and used bs=4069 instead 4096	19:17
Nils^	and the transfer seems to be a lot faster with 4096, too	19:18
gabor_	Nils^: 4k is better :)	19:22
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Nils^	gabor_: I used what is written in the meego wiki. Finally.	19:23
gabor_	okay, only idea	19:23
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Qantourisc	Is anyone here using meego for office/buisiness ?	19:26
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Qantourisc	Arkenoi: best wait till all the optimalizations have been completed ? they still have to drag along a lot of openoffice bloat :p	19:28
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andre__	Qantourisc, define office/business and a device format? :)	19:30
Qantourisc	andre__: getting imap/contacts/appointments to work together :p	19:30
Qantourisc	on desktop and handheld	19:30
Qantourisc	using a FOSS stack	19:30
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k4r1m	how hard would it be to get meego running on a device such lets say an htc phone thats built for android.. theoretically if I have the correct kernel sources should be that big an issue right?	19:38
Stskeeps	the kicker will be gles support, always	19:39
k4r1m	hm interesting I see a lot of support for atom based devices but yeah forgot about intel	19:40
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juliank	k4r1m: If you have the graphic drivers	19:44
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k4r1m	should yeah	19:44
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tolle	Used n900 phones can be found "rather" cheap online.	19:46
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k4r1m	don't like the n900's screen	19:48
k4r1m	plus it would be a fun project	19:49
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talmage	Hi. Can someone here help me with a QML module problem?	19:50
Nils^	so even if I have meego installed on an sd card I have to load the kernel each time before I boot? The normal guide does not mention the kernel at all http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/GettingStarted	19:52
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Stskeeps	Nils^: if you do emmc install you can probably just flash the kernel	19:52
Nils^	Stskeeps: emmc did not work or was not verbose enough so I got impatient.	19:53
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Nils^	Stskeeps: I installed it on a micro sd card and have uboot installed	19:53
Stskeeps	ah	19:53
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Stskeeps	uboot should not require you loading kernel	19:53
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Nils^	i abort the autoboot and tell uboot run mmc (or similar)	19:53
Nils^	it complains about not finding a kernel and thats it	19:53
Stskeeps	Nils^: don't abort autoboot	19:54
Stskeeps	when sd card is written, it will boot from sd card	19:54
Stskeeps	automatically	19:54
Nils^	ok, something is happening :)	19:54
Nils^	Meego 1.2 Community Edition splasscreen with a ripped Ubuntu logo	19:55
Nils^	:)	19:55
lcuk	shhh wazd spent ages copying that	19:55
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Nils^	incredible. it finaly works. I have the desktop and a provider connection it seems	19:57
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Nils^	yeah, I called my gf with meego :)	19:58
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Savago	Good morning.	20:08
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Savago	Not sure if this is the correct channel, but has anyone played with the Meego SDK for Windows?	20:09
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Savago	I just installed it and imported a Qt/QML project into it (which, by the way, runs perfectly well in both Ubuntu, meego 1.2 netbook and symbian).	20:09
Savago	But build fails with QSystemDeviceInfo no such file or directory.	20:10
Savago	I wonder if Meego SDK has Mobility included?	20:10
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Savago	Well, changing the target from Desktop to "Meego" seems to succeed the compilation.	20:21
Savago	At least I got a RPM file in the end.	20:22
Savago	:-P	20:22
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kaari_	jeps, i had those problems with class 10 mmc card with n900. http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1000405	20:27
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kaari_	i promised to file bug report, which i didnt. but if theres some developer to look the thread over. it should be easy to fix.	20:28
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javispedro	lol, engadget now runs an article about the benefits of hardfloat ABI??	20:34
javispedro	http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/23/genesis-hard-float-arm-optimizations-can-hasten-linux-floating/	20:34
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Stskeeps	that one was funny, yes	20:34
destinal	javispedro: hardfloat = no preenv though? :(	20:36
javispedro	oh hi destinal :)	20:37
destinal	javispedro: heya :)	20:37
javispedro	destinal: my plan is to chroot everything, then see if	20:37
javispedro	a) I can either get softfloat sgx libs that might work with the same kernel module	20:37
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javispedro	b) or create softfloat -> hardfloat wrappers	20:38
Stskeeps	javispedro: i kind of wonder if a gles/egl wrapper that shares data over shm would be possible	20:38
Stskeeps	like, into a small chroot	20:38
Stskeeps	where it's softfp	20:39
destinal	javispedro: nice, I'd like to run a meego phone, but there are some binaries I'd like to take with me from webos :)	20:39
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destinal	course still need a device with a keyboard.. maybe port meego to pre3? hmmm..	20:40
javispedro	Stskeeps: as long as we have X11 or something else that does I prefer to just wrap the calls	20:40
javispedro	s/that does/like that	20:40
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Stskeeps	mm	20:40
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javispedro	it needs a bit of design though )=)	20:42
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Nils^	help, I can't exit meego :( Even through a terminal I can't because I don't know the root password for my own device	20:46
Stskeeps	'meego'	20:46
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Nils^	i tried that... maybe a typo	20:46
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Nils^	ah, yes. thanks.	20:46
Nils^	and is there a gui way?	20:46
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javispedro	try hiting a hardware power button	20:47
javispedro	if your hardware has one	20:47
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javispedro	Stskeeps: so by "wrapping" I mean that the real hardfp libs will also be inside the chroot, with some rpath or linker hackery to allow both my wrapper .so get to its symbols and the driver .sos to link with their own hardfp deps (x11, ...). when gl* calls are made, autogenerated asm stub does conversion and calls hardfp symbol.	20:58
Stskeeps	javispedro: funny fact, it's possible to change call convention within .c files	20:58
javispedro	very useful	20:59
javispedro	last time I had to make an ABI wrapper it was from one platform that assumes 4-byte stack alignment to a platform that assumes 8-byte stack alignment	20:59
javispedro	it was not fun =)	20:59
lcuk	thanks Stskeeps	20:59
Stskeeps	for?	20:59
Nils^	javispedro: my power button just locks the key and screen black.	20:59
javispedro	because I had to end up limiting the number of arguments for variadic functions	20:59
lcuk	for: [MeeGo-dev] SF2011 BoF notes: Reinvigorating MeeGo Netbook	21:00
Stskeeps	ah	21:00
Stskeeps	thank hilary, she took the notes	21:00
Stskeeps	i just followed up on not having seen them since	21:00
Stskeeps	:P	21:00
javispedro	Nils^: that's weird, here on netbook power button turns off	21:00
Nils^	javispedro: its the n900	21:00
javispedro	ah, ok =)	21:00
Nils^	which has an extra hardware switch for the lock keys function.	21:00
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Nils^	additionaly, I mean	21:00
lcuk	Stskeeps, ebb and flow	21:00
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lcuk	alterego gave a great run down of your recent work to the devs at weekend by the way :) after a bit of prompting he was quite vocal about you	21:01
Stskeeps	what'd i do now?	21:02
Stskeeps	:P	21:02
lcuk	he was talking about the wayland stuff :)	21:02
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Stskeeps	ah, good	21:02
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Venemo	hey guys	21:04
Venemo	good afternoon :)	21:04
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javispedro	hi there Venemo	21:06
alterego	lcuk: thanks :)	21:07
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Venemo	hey javispedro	21:09
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Venemo	any new news about Harmattan today?	21:18
Stskeeps	no, but we have a shiny n900 community edition summer release out	21:19
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Ulf_	Stskeeps, u around?	21:27
Stskeeps	Ulf_: yes	21:27
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Ulf_	I just wanted to let you know that we'll have to publish another set of Trunk:Testing images without ARM today. I had to disable ARM because we need OBS resources and qemu died again on m4, gzip, etc	21:28
Stskeeps	Ulf_: that's fine - i have a glibc patch waiting, it's OK to wait for weekend to accept it	21:29
Stskeeps	i'm just glad i finally found the fix for the issue	21:29
Ulf_	Stskeeps, There's also a qemu 0.14? update pending that should make things better	21:30
Stskeeps	Ulf_: alright	21:30
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auke	Ulf_: btw, read my message to Anas - the links in the patch were all wrong...	21:32
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Ulf_	auke, It hasn't been accepted yet	21:32
Ulf_	auke, I guess, I didn't interpret your email right	21:33
auke	all the post scriptlets need a sed s/applications/xsessions/	21:33
Ulf_	auke, OK	21:34
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Stskeeps	upside of armv8el being disabled: i can play with my qt5 stuff tomorrow \o/	21:35
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alterego	:)	21:35
Ulf_	Stskeeps, I heard you made good progress on that	21:36
Stskeeps	yeah, it works, but it was a battle beyond belief to find the correct branch for qtquick2	21:38
Stskeeps	but now packing time..	21:38
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Ulf_	Stskeeps, have a good night!	21:42
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maligor	armv8?	21:49
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Stskeeps	maligor: armv7, hardfp	21:50
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Stskeeps	(there's a fairly good reason)	21:50
Venemo	Stskeeps, sounds nice! what's new in the summer release?	21:51
maligor	I guess one has to hope arm skips armv8 then? :P	21:51
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maligor	Stskeeps, is there actually cores out there that are armv7 without neon and with vfp?	21:53
Stskeeps	maligor: yes	21:54
Stskeeps	maligor: tegra2 and marvell's	21:54
maligor	I guess the options is the curse of arm	21:54
Stskeeps	yeah	21:54
Stskeeps	it does seem like people are finally agreeing on a baseline	21:54
Stskeeps	for LSB ARM	21:54
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maligor	yeah, vfp for baseline is certainly better than software fp	21:56
Venemo	Stskeeps, does the summer release support PIN codes yet?	21:56
Stskeeps	Venemo: sure	21:56
Stskeeps	maligor: vfpv3-d16, armv7-a, mfloat-abi=hard, yeah	21:57
Venemo	I heard really great opionions (especially from MohammadAG) about your graphics performance	21:57
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Stskeeps	Venemo: should try it	21:58
maligor	I didn't actually know marvell had armv7 cores tho	21:58
Stskeeps	maligor: other annoying things is not everyone does thumb2 correctly, too	21:58
Stskeeps	:P	21:58
Venemo	Stskeeps, I will try it as soon as I can	21:58
maligor	Stskeeps, well, I had one device that really confused the heck out of me because it claimed to do thumb but got illegal instructions ;P	21:59
Stskeeps	maligor: like the n900..	21:59
Stskeeps	:P	21:59
maligor	got to love thumb tho, it's like using mips	22:00
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maligor	and a shame mips seems to have gone underground	22:01
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maligor	I'm sure anyone working on releases would've loved to have mips too, hehe ;P	22:02
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maligor	but their newer cores are quite fancy except their dsp extension is severely lacking	22:04
Venemo	Stskeeps, until then, can you tell me whether it supports the N900 hardware fully yet? I'm specifically insterested in whether the FMTX or the HSDPA modem works yet.	22:05
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Stskeeps	Venemo: hsdpa works fine, fmtx no idea	22:11
maligor	FM Radio TX?	22:12
maligor	(I didn't even know the n900 had fm radio tx)	22:12
maligor	What abut hdspa working on N9/N950? ;P	22:13
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Venemo	maligor, N900 has an FM transmitter, yes. (disabled in some countries, but the hw is still there)	22:14
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maligor	I just hope the idiot nokia ceo gets evicted and they make a phone with actual meego ;P	22:15
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maligor	I imagine the N900 problem is that it was never a real target for any commercial support for meego	22:17
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maligor	just a convenient test subject at times	22:17
Venemo	maligor, yeah, something like that I think	22:17
Stskeeps	doesn't mean we don't have a kick-ass hardware adaptation still, considering our resources	22:17
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maligor	well, there's always people willing to make their devices work properly	22:18
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maligor	albeit sometimes the binary disassembly would simply take too long (years)	22:19
Venemo	Stskeeps, yeah, you guys are making real progress :)	22:19
satellit_	I am interested in the sugar-desktop. How can I set the repositories on an install to Acer Aspire One N450 of meego-netbook-ia32-1.2.0.img for fedora 15?	22:20
maligor	satellit_, err.. what?	22:22
maligor	satellit_, you should install fedora 15 if you want fedora 15	22:22
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maligor	mixing packages is a recipe for a huge mess	22:22
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satellit_	I just worked with a party on IRC who installed sugar on a Meego wetab. I would like to try it here	22:24
maligor	can't say I know, afaik fedora uses yum and meego zypper	22:25
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maligor	I doubt their repositories are compatible	22:25
satellit_	http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Talk:Sugar_Creation_Kit#Meego%20+%20Sugar are my notes	22:25
Stskeeps	satellit_: you could ask the sugar people to build it for meego :)	22:27
satellit_	ok I thought if it could be done on wetab it could be done here both use same processor.....	22:27
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Stskeeps	sure	22:28
Venemo	Stskeeps, I think satellit_ is one of "the sugar people"	22:28
satellit_	I am a tester for them (volunteer)	22:28
berndhs	if it was me, I would get the F15 source-rpm, try to patch that to make a meego rpm and install that	22:29
maligor	it certainly looks like something that would work for the meego netbook and maybe tablet target	22:30
satellit_	ok (may be above my skill level ...)	22:30
berndhs	there is a small chance that the f15 rpm will work, but if it doesn't, you really have no idea why	22:31
berndhs	whether its the packaging, or the sugar stuff, or the hardware, or something else	22:31
satellit_	my install is on an external usb HD so no loss if it does not work....	22:32
satellit_	thanks	22:32
berndhs	get the rpm file from f15 and try to install with zypper from that file, not from repo	22:32
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berndhs	taht will give you some indication	22:33
satellit_	meego works very nicely on ACER ASPIRE ONE N450 by the way : )	22:33
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Venemo	satellit_ :)	22:37
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Venemo	satellit_, if you have trouble with how to build the rpm, I can help	22:48
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satellit_	Venemo: thanks...I really am not able to do it....any help would be appreciated : )	22:53
Venemo	satellit_, do you have a working F15?	22:53
satellit_	yes Gnome3-shell updated	22:54
Venemo	satellit_, you can use 'yumdownloader --source packagename' to download the source rpm of the package you want to make work	22:54
satellit_	I have been using it as build system for Remixes	22:54
satellit_	ok	22:55
Venemo	satellit_, this will give you a .src.rpm file	22:55
jedix	ugg, hardfp.. damn you ti. damn you	22:55
Venemo	satellit_, you will need the rpm dev tools and the build dependencies of this package on your MeeGo installation	22:55
Venemo	satellit_, copy the .src.rpm file to your MeeGo device and for the first try, use 'rpmbuild --rebuild yourpackage.src.rpm'	22:56
Venemo	jedix, what's wrong?	22:56
Venemo	satellit_, it will complain if any build dependency is missing	22:57
satellit_	ok	22:57
jedix	Venemo: I need the armv7hl rpm for the opengl es blob	22:57
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Venemo	jedix, if you use a hardfp build, then yes	22:58
jedix	Venemo: I thought 1.2 dropped softfp support?	22:58
jedix	so I need to get the hardfp..	22:58
Stskeeps	jedix: please send some kind of official request, it can't be that hard to build with a certain rootfs and a certain toolchain	22:58
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Stskeeps	jedix: hardfp's been my lesson in that occasionally, you can get things working too well, too fast	23:00
TSCHAKeee	does Qt use OpenGL ES with -graphicssystem opengl ?	23:00
Venemo	yes afaik	23:01
TSCHAKeee	hm	23:01
Venemo	satellit_, any luck? :)	23:01
jedix	Stskeeps: I'm confused	23:02
jedix	what happens with it?	23:02
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Stskeeps	jedix: didn't understand your question, my statement was just that we were way faster than the distros that people would normally build binaries for, such as linaro baseline, in switching to hardfp float-abi	23:04
Stskeeps	jedix: and this hurts us now as noone has made hardfp builds :)	23:04
satellit_	Venemo: I cannot try it at this time.....have to go out for weekend. (Family) thanks for the guidance . : ) will checkin monday thanks again	23:04
Stskeeps	jedix: for closed bits	23:04
Stskeeps	the only way this can be solved is by the vendors actually building the bit	23:05
Stskeeps	s	23:05
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jedix	Stskeeps: yeah.. unless you have access ot the vendor bits and have to build that bit	23:05
Venemo	satellit_, all right. if I'm here at the time, feel free to ping me and I'll try to help.	23:05
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Stskeeps	jedix: exactly.. i mean, if you had access to build that bit, it's bloody easy	23:05
jedix	Stskeeps: if I knew how	23:06
satellit_	thanks....	23:06
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Stskeeps	jedix: if you have the SGX SDK/DDK sources, it should be fairly trivial if you've tried a softfp build	23:07
alterego	That's something I forgot to ask, do we have opencl support in N9(50) ;)	23:08
Stskeeps	no	23:08
alterego	oh well	23:08
alterego	I wonder if I can write an app that uses the facial recognition to superimpose a meegon	23:09
jedix	Stskeeps: I have never build the ddk.. switching from softfp to hardfp was easy but building isn't going so well :/	23:09
w00t	kaitlin_: ping	23:10
w00t	kaitlin_: contacts upgrades wrt locale seem to have broken things... it's putting all my contacts in "#" bucket :(	23:11
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kaitlin_	w00t: I saw that =( It was happening before the change to the locale API.	23:20
w00t	kaitlin_: getExemplarForString is returning #	23:20
kaitlin_	w00t: I wanted to fix it before I made the change, but someone was having trouble with the new locale APIs, so I figured I'd switch over to see if I could help them out.	23:20
w00t	the loop is completing, without finding any matching character	23:20
kaitlin_	Ah, I kind of suspected that. It only seems to happen with names that start with Z, right?	23:21
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kaitlin_	The odd thing is, when I switched to Japanese, I didn't see the issue.	23:21
w00t	nope, with my current manager it seems to be happening to all of them	23:21
w00t	(yeah, go figure)	23:21
w00t	I'm not sure how that is possible	23:22
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lcuk	yo w00t	23:22
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w00t	lcuk: o/	23:22
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* lcuk twiddles thumbs waiting		23:23
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w00t	hmm?	23:24
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berndhs	when I switch to Japanese, I won't see any spelling mistakes or grammatical errors	23:26
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w00t	btw, kaitlin_, creating a meego::Locale each time exemplarcharacters is called for is not cheap	23:27
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kaitlin_	w00t: I should create it once and then refer to it to each instance afterward. The localeutils code needs a fair bit of cleanup.	23:28
w00t	(creation and destruction of a lot of stuff, including a massive ICU instance each time)	23:28
kaitlin_	w00t: nod Agreed. I should have done that on the original check in =(	23:28
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carter	hi everyone -- anyone from washington DC or close in that area - would like to make a meeGo group and find people to develop with	23:29
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Venemo	~seen texrat	23:32
kaitlin_	w00t: There's a fair number of bugs related to sorting that I hope to work on in the next day or so.	23:32
infobot	texrat <41f494de@gateway/web/freenode/ip.65.244.148.222> was last seen on IRC in channel #meego, 7d 3m 2s ago, saying: 'lcuk maybe you can scale the cells down?'.	23:32
w00t	kaitlin_: ok, sounds good	23:32
w00t	it's sort of killed my enthusiasm for working on things right now	23:32
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kaitlin_	w00t: What has killed your enthusiasm? All the new bugs cropping up in contacts? ;) I've seen a number of regressions lately due to EDS that I've been fighting.	23:35
w00t	I don't have to worry about those, since I'm working on my own manager :)	23:36
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w00t	but the sorting bugs and stuff mean I can't easily get to work on that right now	23:36
w00t	I have a low tolerance for pain after a day's work ;)	23:36
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kaitlin_	Ah, I see. That's completely fair. My hope it to get a number of the bugs from bugs.meego.com knocked out the way today. Then I can focus on fixing sorting. It's such a tiny portion of my attention right now, and I know that's going to be bite me very soon. =)	23:39
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* lcuk slides over beers to w00t		23:41
lcuk	:)	23:41
wazd	http://www.developer.nokia.com/swipe/ux/ <- this is absolutely fantastic	23:42
phl0x81	hm, there is now a tablet skin for the Qt Simulator...	23:42
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wazd	who's responsible for that? I want to shake his hand personaly	23:42
phl0x81	MeeGo tablet skin.	23:42
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wazd	and I want to steal this font like... now	23:44
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Jaffa	wazd: Isn't it Nokia Pure? There's a package in Extras for it for Maemo, and you can get a TTF	23:44
wazd	Jaffa: I've tried that existing font and it looks different	23:45
wazd	maybe I was trying some different iteration, can you send me a link please?	23:45
Jaffa	wazd: http://maemo.org/packages/view/ttf-nokiapure/	23:46
lcuk	Jaffa, is that the one which was gpl'ed	23:46
lcuk	(early revision to the maemo repositories was under gpl)	23:47
lcuk	the license is still not pure ;)	23:47
npm	i made all my fonts prettier by installing msttcore-fonts-2.0-3.noarch.rpm	23:47
Jaffa	lcuk: No idea	23:48
andre__	anybody having an idea who could be the default assignee for qt bugs in bugs.meego.com nowadays? or where to ask? release engineering?	23:48
* andre__ wants to fix https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17694		23:48
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MeeGoBot	Bug 17694 nor, Undecided, ---, eric.le-roux, NEW, Outdated default assignee for Qt	23:48
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lcuk	andre__, thiago!	23:48
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andre__	lcuk: ay! now if thiago agrees... :)	23:49
lcuk	Jaffa, nokia pure license is "written request" for use	23:49
lcuk	I keep intending to pen my own letter asking	23:49
lcuk	but it needs qt printing support on a device I use it on	23:49
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* alterego sighs		23:51
wazd	RST38h: oh, hey there o/ :)	23:51
wazd	RST38h: wrong channel, but anyway :)	23:51
lcuk	what is the right channel?	23:51
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anidel	the one on your right, I guess	23:52
alterego	mine is #meego-handset	23:52
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TheBootroo	hello	23:57
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