IRC log of #meego for Wednesday, 2011-06-22

lcukright00:00
lcukso like the n9 will have its own00:00
alteregomeh00:00
lbt_nurdifferent00:00
lcuknot really00:00
lcukn9 is a meego vendor00:00
lcukerr00:00
lcukyour know00:00
lbt_nurn9 is not a meego.com project and nothing to do with us00:00
lcukmore complete example of full vendor though00:00
lbt_nurwell, insofar as it's secret, yes00:01
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lcukheh00:01
lbt_nurso it is almost impossible to see how nokia as a vendor relates to meego00:01
lbt_nursame goes for any other real vendor00:01
lbt_nurtoo many commercial issues to allow open operations00:01
lbt_nurso the CE project can 'pretend' to be a vendor00:01
lcuka kickstart proto-vendor!00:02
lbt_nurcan say "hey guys, if you join meego, this is how you'll be treated"00:02
lbt_nur(currently ignored and sidelined ;) )00:02
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lbt_nur(small exagerration there)00:02
lcuknot ignored!00:02
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lcukthe nokia meego is boiled down goodness from all the community ideas00:02
RST38hlcuk: what makes you say that?00:03
lbt_nurOTOH talk to them about why CE and UX have different policies for release-blocker bugs00:03
lcuki see elements from contributions I see from most people around in it00:03
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lcukRST38h, half of the layouts are polished up from things wazd posted etc00:03
javispedromooouuhh00:03
lbt_nurlcuk: mmm   not sure I'd tout that as "a good thing"00:04
alteregoAnd they stole my qml dialer00:04
alteregoI'm just kidding00:04
lbt_nurunless royalties are flowing or they released under cc-sa00:04
javispedroalterego: sue them! this could you get a headstart in the race to the developer n950!00:04
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lcuklbt_nur, I am going to be reminded every day of my graffiti wall on that ui00:04
lcukbecause that is the app list00:04
alteregoThey stole Columbus' swipe though :)00:04
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lcukyour latest app is in the top left00:05
lcuk;)00:05
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lcukwas amongst the first thing I said when I showed very first liqbase video00:05
RST38handroid swipe you mean?00:05
alteregoI only want the N9 to play nagry birds on it00:05
alteregoangry ~00:06
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lcuklbt_nur, but that is "open source" isn't it?00:06
lbt_nurlcuk: no, that's bsd-licensed00:07
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hiemanshualterego: I'd prefer an iPad 2 with mirror display for angry birds :D00:07
lcuklbt_nur, I saw a windows phone ui written in qml00:07
YugobearStill banned here I presume?00:07
lcukquick mockup00:07
lbt_nursure ... qml is LGPL00:07
alteregoipads are shit00:08
alteregoA tablet without a USB port, pfft.00:08
lbt_nurand anyhow ... we're talking ideas, design... not code00:08
lcuki mean that in the, somebody just wrote one and made his symbian phone look likq wp00:08
javispedroalterego: it has its own peripherals port00:08
lcukmm yeah00:08
lcukI agree00:08
javispedroalterego: propietary00:08
alteregolcuk: that was cool :)00:08
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alteregojavispedro: that doesn't help me copy or view images from my memory stick does it00:09
alteregoOr my SD cards.00:09
javispedroalterego: oh it does00:09
lcuklbt_nur, i believe in fairness and there should be a way to do things without patents00:09
javispedroalterego: but you enter a world of vendor lock-in, etc. etc.00:09
lcukbut I very well may be patenting many things in the near future00:09
javispedroalterego: see http://www.crunchgear.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/adapters.jpg00:09
lcuki have a whole warhouse of unpublished code00:09
lcukwarehouse even ;)00:09
lbt_nurlcuk: as good a way to waste money as doing the lottery I guess00:10
alteregolcuk: patent where? We don't have s/w patents in Europe ;)00:10
berndhslcuk: let's just hope that code doesn't violate existing patents :)00:10
alteregoI'm pretty happy with prior art, I'd only patent something if I could resell it, to a lot of people.00:10
lcukalterego, tell that to people who write uk employment contracts then00:10
JaffaStskeeps: Did you have a "MeeGo Compliant" app in mind, btw for your Harmattan compatibility challenge?00:11
lcukbut anyway, I need to find a way where I can concntrate on producing apps from my sketches00:11
lcukI see a need to make qt based implementation of a couple of key things to allow me to do this00:12
alteregoYou need some framework code ported to Qt you mean?00:12
alteregoAnyone here with ops?00:12
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alteregoDoes anyone want to drop a 4 month old ban on DrGov?00:13
alteregoDrGrov even.00:13
YugobearThanks alterego00:14
dhdis there any workaround for the crash when no sound card is available? ( https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=11367 )00:14
MeeGoBotBug 11367 cri, High, ---, kevron_m_rees, VERI FIXED, sysuid crashed if there is no sound hardware available, and caused duihome to crash (black screen in00:14
QantouriscI have many "end user" questsion, where can I get answers ?00:14
lcuknn00:15
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alteregoDawnFoster: do you have #meego ops?00:17
DawnFosteralterego: yep00:17
alteregoCould you unban DrGrov?00:18
alteregoHe had a 4 month ago ban for acting out after Feb 1100:18
alteregoHe's very sorry :)00:18
DawnFosterha :)00:18
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DawnFosterhmmm, I never really *un*ban people00:19
DawnFosterand I'm in the middle of something00:19
alteregom'kay00:19
DawnFostervolunteer?00:19
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lbt_nurJaffa: ffs...   just read your LWN post00:20
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Jaffalbt_nur: Not good?00:21
lbt_nuryours was00:21
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lbt_nurthe "lets kill meego" post wasn't so much00:21
lbt_nurs/kill/damage/00:22
infobotlbt_nur meant: the "lets damage meego" post wasn't so much00:22
javispedrolbt_nur: just grab until engadget runs it00:22
javispedros/grab/wait00:22
GeneralAntillesKill! Kill!00:22
lbt_nuryep .... "MeeGo architect rejects Nokia devices"00:22
GeneralAntillesIt only makes sense.00:23
lbt_nurN9 is *not* a mass market device ...00:23
lbt_nurN9 is *not* a mass market MeeGo device ...00:23
lbt_nurthe ... WeTb is ...00:23
lbt_nurgoddam laptop is a pita for typing ... I'll shut up  now00:23
Jaffa...poorly received in its only market (.de)00:24
wmaroneon top of the fact that handsets are absolutely not tablets00:24
RST38hSo, once again, what is all that controversy about "rejecting" N9?00:24
lbt_nuryeah... who needs mass market appeal to succceed? we have systemd!!!00:24
JaffaAnd there is mpre doversoty on handsets than tablets in terms of acceptable OSes00:24
YugobearN9? What do you guys think about it?00:25
lbt_nurhttps://lwn.net/Articles/448590/00:25
GeneralAntillesRST38h, that MeeGo.com (particularly people from Intel) seem to want to have nothing to do with Nokia and the N9.00:25
JaffaSilly iPad keyboard in SSH app00:25
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JaffaGeneralAntilles: That's overly harsh00:25
lbt_nurRST38h: we have a phrase "Cutting your nose off to spite your face"00:25
GeneralAntillesJaffa, probably.00:26
* GeneralAntilles will leave it to better folks to discuss.00:26
RST38hWith all due respect, the proper-meego.com people have nothing to say until there is at least one usable handset running proper-meego.00:26
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JaffaGeneralAntilles: But arjan's pretty aenior in the project & Intel, so it's unfortunate he doesn't seem to be on-board00:27
RST38hUntil then, Maemo6 is the closest it gets to Meego right now =(00:27
RST38hAlthough yes, I also think Nokia should have continue calling it Maemo6, to make it clear what the device is based on.00:27
lbt_nurmmm hindsight makes you wonder if Ari's comment at the time wasn't a "mistake"00:28
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dm8tbrRST38h: absolutely, but I'm trying to see the positive side too00:29
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dm8tbrRST38h: now I can call anything I want MeeGo, compliance? what is that?00:29
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wmaronedm8tbr: no, you can't. unless you suddenly became the linux foundation.00:29
toninikkanenit's funny how people inside nokia even don't know what's the difference between maemo and meego00:29
RST38hdm8tbr: Reality check: how many normal people really care about "meego compliance"?00:29
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toninikkanenwell the people doing it know, but the rest of the company not00:30
alteregotoninikkanen: I hope by "some people" you mean the janitor and dinner lady :P00:30
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RST38hdm8tr: 2nd check: how many regular app developers care if their hardwre is "meego compliant", as long as they can use it to develop meego apps?00:30
dm8tbrwmarone: MeeGo 1.2 Harmattan, that is 'anything' but certainly not compliant00:30
toninikkanenby some people i mean most00:30
alteregoDrGrov: welcome back ;)00:30
DrGrovalterego: Thank you, appreciated it00:30
DrGrovalterego: :)00:30
wmaronedm8tbr: certainly, but only the Linux Foundation can grant license to use it (or exceptions)00:30
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wmaroneand they aren't obligated to grant another00:31
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dm8tbrwmarone: sure, the impression sticks though00:31
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RST38hAnd, once you collect all theinterested parties, you will pretty much get 1) Intel Meego developers 2) A few Linux FOundation people 3) assorted wikipedia nuts00:31
Damion_compliance pah00:31
javispedroah, this reminds me I need to spam a wikipedia deletion vote00:32
Damion_is this like lsb compliance which seemed to require cups be installed and libgl.so even on a minute headless server install?00:32
dm8tbrDamion_: no it's the nokia can ignore compliance and stick meego on a turd00:33
javispedroDamion_: and be rpm-based ;P00:34
javispedroDamion_: and use sysvinit ;P00:34
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RST38hSo, what is wrong with sticking meego on a turd? Other than negative publicity, I mean?00:35
Jaffadm8tbr: The N9/Harmattan is a "turd"?00:35
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dm8tbrJaffa: no, I didn't say that, you read it that way00:35
Jaffalbt_nur: Which comment of Ari's?00:35
Damion_javispedro: back to sysvinit?  what was up with eventd or whatever you call the new way of doing things ?00:35
dm8tbrJaffa: I said 'Nokia can stick meego on ANYTHING without it being compliant'00:36
javispedroDamion_: LSB mandates sysvinit initscripts00:36
Jaffadm8tbr: Well, it doean't lokk like Nokia will be doing much else with MeeGo in the short term, so you must have meant someth... ah00:36
javispedroDamion_: just using it as another example of ridiculousness00:36
Damion_I've got used to apt-get but frankly rpm vs deb doesn't make much difference as a user since yum started to do what apt does00:36
Damion_javispedro: ah00:36
lbt_nurJaffa: just calling H 'MeeGo00:37
dm8tbrJaffa: the current hardware is nice, but calling the software meego instead of maemo6 is a stretch00:37
Jaffalbt_nur: Ah00:37
TSCHAKeeewhy are you all being a bunch of pedantic doinks?00:37
Jaffadm8tbr: Not much of one and, IMHO, a stretch which is beneficial to MeeGo00:37
* andre__ gets some popcorn and watches the channel00:37
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TSCHAKeeeNokia finishes an engineering and release cycle, and gets bashed for it.00:38
dm8tbrJaffa: my opinion differs, but I gues only time will tell00:38
Damion_somebody must have already compiled meego-terminal and uploaded an http served .deb so I don't have to00:38
GeneralAntillesWhy wouldn't you leverage this.00:38
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Jaffadm8tbr:My comment on LWN explains my reasoning a little, but it's bed time now00:38
GeneralAntillesENGADGET gave it a positive writeup.00:38
GeneralAntilles /ENGADGET/00:38
JaffaGot up early :)00:39
TSCHAKeeeyes00:39
Damion_I've git cloned the latest code but now I have to crosscompile and faff, come on!00:39
TSCHAKeeethey did00:39
TSCHAKeeethat's a big boost00:39
berndhsyeah, something is wrong here00:39
dm8tbrandre__: Larks' tongues. Otters' noses. Ocelot spleens!00:39
JaffaGeneralAntilles: Maybe only so they cpuld bash Nokia over the core strategy of WP700:39
TSCHAKeeeseriously, you all are incredibly self destructive.. take Nokia's N9 for what it is...a meego compatible device.00:39
andre__dm8tbr: yeah, life can be dangerous :)00:40
GeneralAntillesJaffa, really think they're smart enough to concoct something like that? ;)00:40
JaffaTSCHAKeee: The word "all" there seems remarkably misplaced00:40
GeneralAntillesJaffa: +100:40
JaffaGeneralAntilles: They're not The Register...00:40
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Damion_TSCHAKeee: is it compatible?  or do you mean /usr/bin/alien ./meego-app.rpm && dpkg -i ./meego-app.deb ? :)00:41
lbt_nurJaffa: ah, I see Dawn is going for the "death by planning" approach to the mail<->forum problem00:42
GeneralAntillesInterestingly the blogger who wrote up those silly pieces on the MeeGo conferences is, apparently, the son of The Register founder Mike Magee.00:42
TSCHAKeeethose things can be dealt with.00:42
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Damion_TSCHAKeee: well yeah, such as that.  personally I don't care, I still call things Linux rather than by their disribution name.  And I actively object to "GNU/Linux"00:43
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lbt_nurTSCHAKeee: I think you're misreading it ... most people here are doing that."N9 is good" .... one senior bod in MeeGo.com came out with the negativity... loudly and in public00:44
lbt_nurDamion_: GNU/Linux is correct00:44
TSCHAKeeelbt_nur: Yes. I read. that is insanely self destructive.00:44
Damion_lbt_nur: for some value of correct00:44
lbt_nurDamion_: the right one ;)00:44
TSCHAKeeeit serves no purpose other than to divide people00:44
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lbt_nurTSCHAKeee: and that's the point ...00:44
lbt_nurI think Jaffa is notifying Imad00:45
Damion_back when stallman was touting it as the term to use, my CPU was running through VERY little GNU project code most of the time00:45
lbt_nurwe should raise this at the very next TSG ..... ROFL00:45
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Damion_heck it wasn't even part of the GNU project initially, just licenced with it00:45
lbt_nurDamion_: sorry, it was too good a line to miss ;)00:45
lbt_nuryou can let it go now :D00:45
lbt_nurbreathe again00:46
Damion_:)00:46
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Damion_so back to my problem.00:48
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Damion_I have an n950 but it's useless to me without a way to ssh.  I understand that with the option for installing from elsewhere enabled (which it is via settings), I can go to a url with a .deb and (presumably with the correct mime-type) download and it'll let me install.  I want meego-terminal.  So I've git clone'd meego-terminal and now have the src.  Great.  Am I expected to get a VM image of the build env, run a VM (vmware/whatever) build the binaries,00:51
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JaffaDamion_: Hmm, would assume there's a pre-built deb somewhere.00:52
Damion_yes, I would, but bing can't find it00:53
Damion_I'll try altavista00:53
JaffaDamion_: The FRemantle openssh-server might also work00:53
wmaroneso are we going to be forced to pass .deb files around or is there a repository with this stuff in it?00:53
JaffaDamion_: ask achipa or vivainio or someone for a deb?00:53
javispedronote that /etc/event.d is now /etc/init00:53
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Jaffawmarone: Damion_ And javispedro has scratchbox up &  running ;)00:54
alteregoDamion_: the .deb is probably in the harmattan repositories ..00:54
Damion_Jaffa: is it upstart, or am I thinking of macos?00:55
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Damion_Jaffa: yeah I had a scratchbox env for fremantle00:55
alteregoIt is upstart00:55
lbt_nurerr.... OBS00:56
Damion_but that was a year ago and I don't think I can boot vmware on the beta kernel work are making me try00:56
alteregoRubbish vm software then :P00:56
alteregoKLKind of makes yVMs pointless.00:56
javispedrothis reminds me00:56
lbt_nurDamion_: Jaffa, OBS builds Harmattan and publishes repos... Apps, PPAs etc00:56
javispedroI need a COBS account (finally!)00:56
Damion_alterego: newfangled stuff :)00:56
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Damion_I still think of cups and alsa as newfangled00:57
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lbt_nurjavispedro: you know the drill00:57
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javispedrolbt_nur: the drill is this I need to file a bug thing?00:58
alteregojavhahah00:58
alteregojavispedro: haha, welcome to the dark side :P00:58
lbt_nurjavispedro: no... just your meego.com account00:59
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javispedrolbt_nur: ah, I see. I want COBS, I want it to do OSS dev, and my meego.com username is "javispedro"00:59
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lbt_nuryep ... just wanted the account ... a lot don't match irc nicks01:00
Damion_OBS?01:00
MohammadAGOBS publishes to PPAs? sweet!01:01
lbt_nurhttp://wiki.meego.com/OBS01:01
lbt_nurMohammadAG: yup01:01
lbt_nurDamion_: kinda like autobuilder++01:01
javispedroalterego: well, the dark side powerful is, I have to admit.01:02
Damion_lbt_nur: ah01:02
javispedrothe idea of having to add yet another set of m4 macros to my debian/control files for another maemo version scares me. a lot.01:02
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javispedrospecially if we start talking about directories being moved.01:03
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alteregoHarmattan SDK 50% ...01:12
javispedroplatform or qt?01:13
alteregoplatform01:13
alteregoAlready got the Qt SDK01:13
javispedroalterego: welcome to the light side!01:14
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alteregoWell, in the absence of a device, I want the emulator so I can see what's inside it :P01:14
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javispedrosbox is not an emulator!!01:14
alteregoSome of it is :P01:14
javispedrotechnically madde comes with one true emulator01:14
alteregoDoes it?01:14
javispedroafaik, yes.01:15
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alteregoDoes the harmattan qt sdk have decent emulation support? :)01:15
alteregoAnyway, scratchbox will be as close to running the thing as I can get right now I reckon01:15
alteregoMight install it on my exo and see how well it works with a touch screen ;)01:15
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javispedrowhile I can make sbox have decent performance ( I have some crap here that requires patches to xorg itself =) ), gettign decent performance out of qemu is over me01:16
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javispedroalterego: btw this is what you're going to get with SDK: http://depot.javispedro.com/nit/harmattansdk/sdk1.png so don't get too excited.01:17
javispedro(platform SD)01:17
javispedro*SDK01:17
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alteregoWhat, no xterm?!01:17
alterego;)01:18
javispedromeego-terminal wasn't on the repos :S01:18
alteregojavispedro: I'm more interested in the middle ware anyway.01:18
alteregoYou're shitting me, realy?01:18
alteregoI'd have expected that to be in there already ..01:18
mikhasbut you can compile it yourself?01:18
javispedroalterego: qemu image might have more stuff. this is same story as with n900.01:18
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javispedroqemu/madde image, I mean01:19
alteregoI could have sworn my fremantle sbox install has xterm :)01:19
alteregoAnyway, like I said, I'm more interested in the middle ware,01:19
alteregoqt components, and qwidget, for porting columbus to harmattan01:19
alteregoHarmattan is a good half-way house for getting Columbus in MeeGo proper from fremantle01:20
alteregoJust realised, we''ve lost CIR capability too01:21
wmaroneCIR?01:21
Damion_sbox using qemu for binary translation, it's emulatoreque01:21
alteregoBut we have gained (I think) a somewhat easier USB solution01:21
MohammadAGno Xbox remote :P01:21
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berndhshow does one convert between rpm style changelog and deb style changeslot ?01:21
Damion_and as it's in a unix system with X11 and ttys and suchlike it's essentially just like being in an emulated environment01:21
javispedroDamion_: the qemu stuff in sbox is utterly broken for any UI use.01:21
berndhss/changeslot/changelog/01:21
infobotberndhs meant: how does one convert between rpm style changelog and deb style changelog ?01:21
alteregoMohammadAG: indeed, I guess I'll have to keep one of my N900s after all ;)01:21
Damion_javispedro: yeah?01:21
javispedroDamion_: so when people say the "emulated environment" it's not qemu so01:21
javispedrosbox is not an emulator.01:22
Damion_well I got it working the other way round :)01:22
alteregoMohammadAG: I'll probably write a network transparent UI for it ;)01:22
MohammadAGalterego, or sell the Xbox :P01:22
alteregopfft01:22
alteregoThe XBox is awesome, and it'll integrate with my WP7 phone :P01:22
Damion_qemu-user running x86 stuff on arm talking to /tmp/.X11/X0 worked for UI stuff01:22
MohammadAGalterego, or sell the Xbox :P01:23
MohammadAGerr, damn up + enter01:23
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alteregoHeh01:23
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alteregowb DawnFoster01:23
CosmoHillhi01:23
DawnFosterthanks - had to unexpectedly drop offline01:24
alteregoMohammadAG: so, for a head start, do you want to start working on the Harmattan CSSU now?01:24
DawnFosterat a conference & friend's computer freaked out, so he borrowed mine01:24
MohammadAGalterego, maybe, when I have a device :P01:24
alteregoHeh01:24
DawnFosteralterego: did you get that guy unbanned?01:24
alteregoDawnFoster: yeah, did it then deop'd myself, thanks :)01:24
DawnFosteryeah, I saw that - thanks :)01:25
MohammadAGs/when/if :P01:25
alteregoMohammadAG: did you sign up?01:25
MohammadAGalterego, yeah01:25
alteregoYou will definitely get one I'm sure, but it does  mean you'll have to do a bit more MeeGo stuff :P01:25
DawnFosteralterego: and thanks for helping out!01:25
alteregoDawnFoster: I am here to help :P01:26
MohammadAGalterego, as long as plain Qt is themed, I'm happy with it :P01:26
alteregoHeh01:26
alteregoI'm hoping the fast track a device to me.01:27
MohammadAGor maybe I'll switch to QML then, 512MBs of RAM make my argument invalid, in a way :P01:27
alteregos/the/they/01:27
infobotalterego meant: I'm hoping they fast track a device to me.01:27
alteregoErm, they have 1G RAM01:27
MohammadAGerr, what?01:27
MohammadAG1GB of soldered RAM?01:27
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javispedron9 does01:28
alteregoNo, 1G of RAM hanging out the side on a peice of string :P01:28
javispedrodunno about n95001:28
alteregoThe N950s that they'll be distribution to developers have 1G of RAM01:28
MohammadAGalterego, oh, the new kind then :P01:28
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alterego~distributed, I'm getting a bit tired now ;)01:28
alteregoffs, distributing!01:28
Damion_the new rubbery black ones ?01:29
MohammadAGcool, I thought they had 512 soldered + 512 swap01:29
alteregoI can spell, I'm just using the wrong words :)01:29
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alteregoMohammadAG: what made you think that? :P01:29
MohammadAGno the new ones with RAM hanging from the side01:29
alteregoafaict, the only hardware difference is basically the N9 has a slightly better magnetometer and NFC01:29
MohammadAGalterego, haven't looked at the spec sheet, only know it has a 4" screen and 1.0GHz :P01:30
alteregoAnd it seems we're quite likely to have FM RX & TX01:30
MohammadAGNFC on the N950 would've been cool, more chances for devs to make nfc apps01:30
alteregoIndeed01:30
Damion_what is the big deal with nfc all of a sudden?01:30
MohammadAGI thought the FCC pages mentioned otherwise01:30
MohammadAG(FMTX)01:30
alteregoMaybe we can make an NFC binary compatible FM based NFC clone ;)01:30
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Damion_it's just what some .jp people used to buy stuff in Japan01:30
alteregoDamion_: sure, and I'd like to go there one day :P01:31
Damion_it's like very weak bluetooth, but still enough to eat battery01:31
javispedroalterego: on spain at least n900 officialy has "1GiB application memory"01:31
alteregoNot really ..01:31
Damion_alterego: well there is no guarentee you'll get the app that lets you have money on yours01:31
javispedroDamion_: I was sold on the passive rfc tags idea01:31
alteregojavispedro: you mean the spec on nokia.com?01:31
javispedroalterego: yes01:31
alteregojavispedro: sure, same everywhere, but application memory is not RAM01:31
alteregoWhich it explicitly states.01:32
javispedroalterego: "lie me once, ..."01:32
Damion_javispedro: there are passive QR labels, easier to spot too01:32
Damion_and don't eat battery01:32
alteregojavispedro: they used a tricky marketting loop hole that was misleading sure.01:32
javispedroDamion_: au the contraire01:32
javispedroDamion_: camera on = horrible battery life01:32
alteregoI think scanning a few QR codes would eat a lot more than having NFC on01:32
Damion_I'm more excited about BT4.001:32
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alteregoHeh the N9 doesn't even have BT3 :P01:33
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Damion_1% of the power usage of BT01:33
alterego80% done ..01:33
Damion_I read the wikipedia article today, sounds very useful01:33
Damion_javispedro: yes when you turn it on for a moment.  The nfc is on most of the time normally (I guess you could turn it on and offm, but that gains you little).01:34
Damion_basically my wife's NexusS had to have NFC off, as a) nothing uses it yet, b) it definitely decreased battery life01:34
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alteregoDamion_: I plan on making some NFC hot points in my house :)01:35
Damion_once the qr/nfc tag is read what happens is typically a 3G connection and web experience eating much more, my point is leaving nfc on 24x701:35
alteregoDon't know what I'll make them do, maybe control home automation for turning TV on when I sit on couch and put N9 on chair arm01:35
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alteregoIf it's on it's pad on my desk it turns on my desk light if it's getting near sunset01:35
alteregoWhen I put it on my bed side table it dims the lights and gives me manual light control for going to sleep, and sets up alarm in the morning to wake me up to go to work.01:36
alteregoWhen I get into work, it'll automatically open work portal and email.01:36
alteregoAnd make me a coffee,01:37
Damion_you know buttons would do this, put the phonedown on a button ;)01:37
javispedroand when you enter the bathroom it will immediately $INSERT_LAME_JOKE_HERE01:37
alteregojavispedro: fall into topilet :P01:37
alterego~toilet01:37
infoboti heard toilet is not here01:37
javispedrook, I just laughed.01:37
Damion_toilet the figlet replacement?01:37
alterego90%01:38
alteregoit was probably a mistake to install the SDK through 3G01:38
alteregoIt's been going for almost an hour now :D01:38
javispedrowatch until you get your at&t iBill01:38
alteregoOne neat thing about the N9/(50?) is the fact it does wifi master mode for tethering ..01:39
javispedrothey are already cutting down a large reservoir from the amazons to print it01:39
alteregoThat's new01:39
Damion_alterego: oooh you confirmed that?01:39
MohammadAGalterego, isn't NFC always on?01:39
Damion_I'd need to stick my sim in to confirm01:39
alteregoMohammadAG: it's an active radio when it's in a device like the N9, I'm sure you can power it down.01:40
Damion_alterego: I talked on TMO with the dev who did the backported wifi drivers from 2.6.32 about this, as the new 80211.ko stuff should permit the same on the n90001:40
alteregoDamnsweet, well yeah, papparantly out-of-the-box it should work.01:41
alteregoErm, Damion_ ^01:41
alterego96%01:41
alteregoI'm gonna make a cup of tea01:41
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javispedroI bet love is going to return to the handset ux? :)01:43
javispedrosome of it at least01:43
javispedrotoo much of it was leaving for tablet ux ;P01:44
alteregoI hope so01:44
Damion_it's ad-hoc atm, checking...01:45
alteregoWell, we've already had a lot of love in MTF from the community01:45
alteregoI'd really like to setup a mesh network between all my devices.01:46
javispedrohmm.. why do I have a browser window with the wikipedia page on the dark side of the force open01:46
alteregoWhy wouldn't you? :)01:46
alteregooh, wtf, it's downloading the i386 rootstrap now01:46
alteregoThat's another fucking 666M -_-01:47
javispedrooh, I forgot to unpack the armhf one01:47
Damion_alterego: it's Ad-Hoc01:47
javispedroer... ARMEL one (grrrrr)01:47
* alterego goes to make a coffee.01:47
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javispedroad hoc might use less battery than master01:47
alteregoDamion_: maybe you're firmware is too old ;)01:47
Damion_it'll not work with my PSP and other stuff01:47
Damion_alterego: possible01:47
javispedrosell the PSP01:47
Damion_who else checked01:47
Damion_javispedro: the n900 is too slow doing remoteplay01:48
Damion_like 5-10% the correct speed :)01:48
MohammadAGchecked what?01:48
Damion_MohammadAG: whether the wifi tethering was adhoc or intrastructure01:48
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MohammadAGDamion_, the remote play app?01:48
MohammadAGif it's Joikuspot it's adhoc I guess01:48
Damion_MohammadAG: I tried the remoteplay app and it worked but very slow01:49
Damion_it's not, it's integrated but they obviously don' bother setting the wifi mode in the revision I have01:49
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MohammadAGDamion_, that's cause everything is loaded on the CPU, it doesn't use gstreamer01:50
Damion_it uses various libs gstreamer uses, you mean it doesn't use the hw enhanced stuff gstreamer can tie in to using the onboatd h264 decoding?01:51
MohammadAGyes01:51
Damion_yeah I knew why it was slow, it was impressive anyway, given some time it might be possible01:51
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Damion_depends if what the psp needs, the hw can output unaided01:52
Damion_I'm really struggling to find harmhatten repositories, who was it I need to ask?01:52
javispedroDamion_: die in a fire!01:54
javispedro;P01:54
javispedroor wait until someone else gets one =)01:54
Damion_ooh http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan-beta/free/01:55
javispedroDamion_: that is SDK repo01:55
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Damion_it has armel binaries01:56
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javispedroSDK repos have armel binaries01:58
javispedrothey come in both flavours ;P01:58
Damion_yes but it means I can try and install sometime01:58
alteregoThey should install fine01:59
javispedrotechnically you won't find any package on it that is not on your device01:59
Damion_and it fails, "invalid installaion package"01:59
javispedrowell, save binutils.01:59
javispedroand the kile.01:59
javispedro*like01:59
alteregoI have SDK stuff installed on N90001:59
alteregolike, erm, bzip2 :)01:59
Damion_perhaps I need to switch this in to dev mode01:59
Damion_I have to ask permission of the account manger who's lent this to me01:59
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* alterego likes the look of "Transfer Manager" :)02:02
javispedrothe entire transparent list dialogs thing looks nice02:03
javispedroa pity this had to be done with MTF trickery instead of window manager trickery02:03
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Damion_mtf?02:04
javispedroLibMotherFscking02:04
alterego~mtf02:04
infobotA Microsoft Tape Format reader. URL: ftp://metalab.unc.edu/pub/Linux/system/backup/mtf-0.1.src.tgz02:04
javispedroactually libmeegotouch ;)02:05
javispedroor MeegoTouchFramework02:05
Damion_ahh02:05
javispedroinfobot: bad bot.02:05
infobotBad bot., bad! No cookie for you!02:05
Damion_application/octet-stream not supported02:06
Damion_so currently this n950 is completely useless to me02:06
Damion_an okay camera and okay browser but really really useless02:06
javispedroDamion_: stop spoiling the fun02:06
Damion_okay to be positive, the keyboard is really nice02:07
javispedrono! no! I'm not hearing!02:07
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javispedrothe _hardware_ keyboard?02:07
Damion_if it weren't for the keyboard it'd be useless02:07
javispedroDamion_: tell that to engadget!02:07
Damion_I particularly like that when swiping up/down/across in browser/gallery it keeps quiting said app02:08
Damion_I'm really really pi*sed off that the .mp4 files it creates don't play on the ps3 wtf Sony and Nokia, what are you doing?02:09
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wmaroneDamion_: fragmentation!02:09
* wmarone explodes02:09
Damion_okay the ps3 is a locked down propriatory system, but it does shed loads of formats including h264+aac normally02:09
Damion_Xvid, Mjpeg, m2ts, mp4, avi ...02:10
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Damion_but not the weird mp4 format that is created by n950 and n90002:10
berndhswell if its useless, send it to me, I'll tell you in a couple of months what its like02:10
Damion_berndhs: sadly I'm not allowed02:11
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berndhsit was worth a half-hearted attempt :)02:11
Damion_I'm also hoping that if the account manager lets me put this in dev mode that I'll be able to get a shell at which point you can ignore all of the above02:11
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Damion_I'm in the centre of London if anyone wants to come and play with it02:11
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alteregoErm, what are you doing Thursday evening?02:15
alteregoAnd would you like to come to the MeeGo Birmingham meetup (with your N950) :)02:15
Damion_after 20:00 not much02:15
alteregoWell, your colleagues :)02:15
Damion_heh02:15
alteregoI'm hoping to hear back from my contact that said he could possibly get one tomorrow, but even if it gets sent out tomorrow I don't know if it'll arrive in time :/02:16
Damion_I've been to Birmigham new street a couple of times02:16
Damion_been to is stretching it a bit02:16
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javispedroalterego: remember to hide the chloroform  until he drops off his n950 lock code02:17
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alteregoHeh02:18
javispedrooops. this was supposed to be a /msg.02:18
alterego:)02:18
Damion_I have always wanted somebody to try chloroform on me, I'd struggle for a while and then fake flop02:18
alteregoI'll be getting one anyway, so it's just a matter of having one for the meetup.02:18
Damion_I think apparenly it doesn't really work and is made up for movies02:18
Damion_it's more likely yo make you extremely ill02:18
alteregoBut I'm not keeping my hopes up, as time is too fine.02:18
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alteregoRight, bed time for me.02:22
Damion_it's barely past midnight02:22
alteregoI have to be up at 6 :P02:22
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Damion_wow, I have kids and I don't get up until after 8 :)02:29
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alteregoHeh02:35
alteregoI'll talk to you all tomorrow. :) g'night02:36
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blizzowIf I put in a development device application for an n950, when could I expect a response?02:59
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SpeedEvilAs an individual?03:01
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SpeedEvilReportedly, they want to get them into the hands of the right people ASAP03:02
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SpeedEvilIIRC the deadline si the 28th - for applications - and for 'clear cases' - it was said that they may be shipped even before that deadline.03:02
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SpeedEvilis03:02
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blizzowSpeedEvil: Thanks.03:02
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Damion_my individual application said ineligable so I did company one04:57
Damion_the link simple didn't let me proceed, some sort of permission denied04:57
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the_lordHi! is there any 1.2 preview for the n900?05:59
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anidel_Look for MeeGO Community Edition for N900. It's first release is scheduled for tomorrow 22nd06:32
SpeedEvil:)06:35
anidel_it *should* be released tomorrow :)06:36
sofarthose working on it are likely to be either drunk, asleep, or both.06:37
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moofreedoes it boot up quickly now? :)06:40
anidel_latest from Wiki page says 62s06:41
anidel_I think..from SD, I think :) I think too much06:41
moofree20 or 30 seconds quicker than the last time my friend tried it iirc06:41
moofreei just remember i commented on how fast the netbook edition booted on my netbook, and he thought i was joking lol06:42
anidel_I plan to install it on the eMMC and remove Maemo.06:42
moofreeyeah, 60 seconds is still a tad too fast but at least it's better06:42
moofreeerr06:42
anidel_and work on that06:42
moofreetoo slow06:42
* SpeedEvil tries to remember stock n900 boot time.06:42
SpeedEvil27s comes to mind.06:42
anidel_mine's not that fast...06:44
anidel_from starting to useable06:44
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moofreeactually considering getting an n900 now lol06:47
anidel_:)06:47
moofreesince the n9 announcement is so disappointing06:48
anidel_why ?06:49
moofreepretty much boils down to no keyboard06:50
anidel_:)06:50
moofreei want an n950 but apparently there's only a limited number of them in existence06:50
anidel_yup and it's not for sale06:51
moofreepretty much gonna be anohter iphone, and i hate my iphone! that's why iw as waiting for the n95006:51
anidel_iPhone doesn't have a keyboard06:52
moofreewhat ever happened to that circa 2007 tech demo of the nokia phone with a tactile feedback touchscreen06:52
moofreeexactly06:52
moofreethe n9 is basically another iphone clone slab phone06:52
anidel_so why iPhone over N9?06:52
anidel_oh no :)06:52
moofreei wanted an n95006:52
moofreenot an n906:52
anidel_me too...but that's it06:52
the_lordmoofree: iphones are not multitaskers06:52
moofreewhat the n950 is being touted as, that's what i was expecting as the n906:53
moofreeiphone sucks in so many ways06:53
moofreei couldn't wait to give nokia my hundreds of dollars06:53
moofreebut now... i don't know what to get :\06:53
anidel_so both devices have no keyboard... and you still prefer the iPhone?06:54
moofreeno06:54
moofreei hate the iphone!06:54
anidel_but you said you're gonna buy it cause the N9 doesn't have a keyboard...06:54
* anidel_ is confused06:54
anidel_ahhh I read it correctly now...06:55
anidel_anyway...it's pretty much a totally different phone than iPhone06:55
anidel_but for me it's time to go to sleep06:55
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moofreei'm what?06:55
moofreei have an iphone right now, i wnted to get an n9050, but since it was announced as the n9 without a keyboard, i don't know what to get now06:55
moofreei'm confused about how you got that i thought the iphone was goobetter lol06:55
moofreeand of course my internet is frozen so i'm typing at a blank putty screen........06:55
moofreehahaha stupid irc cfreezing on me06:56
anidel_:)06:56
moofreejeeze this is annoying06:56
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moofreeyeah, essentially n9: too much like iphone which i hate06:56
moofreei wanted, you know, a successor to the n90006:56
anidel_all of us06:57
anidel_but I still don't see any resemblance to iPhone06:57
moofreeslab phone06:57
moofreei don't know how you don't see a resemblance to the iphone06:57
anidel_we clearly have different ways of seeing things, that's it06:58
moofreeonly difference it doesn't have that button at the bottom and it's curved so it scratches easier :P06:59
moofreeffit'd be nice if i could type and have text show up as i typed lol07:00
moofreecfinally07:00
moofreealmost two minutes there :\07:00
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StskeepsJaffa: underneath the rules of meego app compliance , ie meego api only07:26
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iekkumorning07:37
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Jay_BEEhola08:13
Stskeepshola08:13
Jay_BEEmy kingdom for a n950 lol...08:14
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* Jay_BEE quickly ratchets up a QML "Hello World" app08:14
Stskeepswe collect kingdoms, so sign up for the developer device program08:14
Jay_BEEi signed up via the developer.nokia.com site08:15
Jay_BEEsince my app will be commercial08:15
* dm8tbr has touched an N950 once, do I get a kingdom? ;)08:16
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Jay_BEEdm8tbr I believe the idea is to give your kingdom for one or you could give me your kingdom which I could use to get the n950 heh08:17
dm8tbrdammit :)08:18
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marcompileso the link http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/Meego_on_Beagleboard_from_scratch says meego does not run anymore on beagleboard. Isn't the SGX drivers provided by TI open source?08:24
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Stskeepsno08:24
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marcompilewe talking about this OMAP35x_Graphics_SDK_setuplinux_3_00_00_06.bin ?08:25
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Stskeepsright, that's not open source, it's closed binaries08:26
Stskeepsthe problem is in that it's not built for hardfp ABI08:26
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marcompilebut do the SGX drivers require a specific kernel version?08:33
StskeepsABI means 'different way of calling functions'08:33
marcompileyes, I know. You pass float parameters in float registers08:34
Stskeepsright08:35
Stskeepsand well, the current binaries pass parameters in integer registers08:35
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QantouriscSilly question: Can I install and run all custom yum packages on a meego if: The architecture of the package is correct, I have the needed deps08:36
marcompilebut the kernel modules are shipped with source code?08:36
marcompilejust the userspace libs are the problem?08:36
Stskeepsmarcompile: yes08:36
Stskeepsuserspace libs are the problem and not 'just' :)08:36
Stskeepssomeone from TI should just build a hardfp version of them08:36
Stskeepsit's really simple, just they aren't releasing any yet08:37
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marcompilehas anyone tried to contact them and ask for it?08:37
Stskeepsthey're saying june/july, i think08:38
Stskeepslinaro is moving to armhf too so08:38
samaclacdacan i install meego simulator ?08:38
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marcompilewhat about the video decode and dsp stuff08:39
marcompileis that broken too?08:39
Stskeepsnah, that loads into a different processor08:40
marcompilebut the dsp-link stuff is working fine still?08:40
Stskeepsif that isn't closed source binaries for userland, then yes08:40
pabs3Stskeeps: june/july for what? SGX source code? or hardfp versions?08:41
Stskeepshardfp versions08:41
Stskeepsyou'll see pigs flying before SGX source code comes out08:41
marcompilewell, I'm not sure what is included. I think they have gstreamer modules, but idk if its opensource or binary08:41
Stskeepsthink they're oss08:42
pabs3at least one is in the non-free section: http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan-beta/non-free/g/gst-gltexture/08:42
Stskeepsthat's harmattan, no idea what's going on there :P08:43
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Stskeepswe're talking about beagle/generic omap308:43
pabs3ahh08:43
pabs3sorry for the noise08:43
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TheBootroohello09:02
TheBootrooi have advanced questions about Nokia N9 and N95009:02
Stskeepsbest to ask nokia straight then09:03
TheBootrooStskeeps: where is their irc channel ?09:03
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TheBootrooi wanted to know if there are the sames pb on nokia meego devices than on N900 i talk about "root fs shitty partitionnning" and "exchanges troubles with gmail"09:08
TheBootrooif not i'll buy n9, if yes i'll wait for another meegophone09:08
Stskeepswell, it's not really in comsumer hands yet so youll have to wait09:08
TheBootrooStskeeps: no one here as tested it yet ?09:09
AscenA phone that gets released later this year?09:10
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TheBootrooon developer.nokia.com is asked for a N950 but i see nowhere a hint to know that i already applied for.... doest it means registration process is not finished ?09:10
TheBootrooAscen: non, a phone that not even been  anounced09:11
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marcompilewell, its been announced at least09:14
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TheBootroomarcompile: the phone a really wanted does not exist and will likely never exist : its basically a Nokia N9 + N950 keyboard + USB Host + HDMI + Bluetooth 4.0+ LTE + FM RX/TX + SD card slot + Open bootloader + double core arm or atom09:17
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TheBootrooall these things seems pretty simlpe to me but no constructor seems to want to let out a such complete product... too bad09:18
TheBootrooHarmattan Ui + programs Guidelines are wonderfull to me (not even equalled by iOS or WebOS) but there are some hardware points over which i can't compromise09:19
* TheBootroo wonders the hell why he can't be phone constructor himself09:19
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TheBootrooStskeeps: any chance to see Harmattan UI over MeeGo CE for N900 one day (overall the timeline and some apps like email and accuweather)09:23
Stskeepshonestly i think it'd be better if people steered clear of closed UI09:23
TheBootrooStskeeps: wut N09:23
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TheBootrooStskeeps: wut ?09:24
StskeepsTheBootroo: well, think of it - one of the problems that people always have with nokia devices is that once nokia stops caring, the UI's are closed down and cannot be modified09:24
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Stskeepswe have a working, nice-looking basic user interface, isn't that something to build on top of, to make sure we're never tied to those things again?09:25
TheBootrooStskeeps: but reference UX really sucks and all proposals to enhance it are ignored, and i don't have time to create it entirely alone, i have too many projects by side09:25
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TheBootrooStskeeps: i don't like the move to QML09:25
Stskeepsof course, noone has time to do it alone, but even in very short time we've improved matters quite a lot in CE09:25
TheBootrooStskeeps: MTF is better IMHO09:25
DocScrutinizerStskeeps: 100% ACK09:26
TheBootrooStskeeps: any way we could get Panels or Timeline with events in Handset UX, a beautiful way ? (i can make mockups, i like it)09:26
marcompilewell, I have to sleep now. thanks for all the information. I'll be back soon09:27
StskeepsTheBootroo: well, if you like MTF you're welcome to send patches09:27
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TheBootrooStskeeps: i can't even get it compiling on my linux laptop, and my connexion at home sux09:28
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TheBootrooe.g. is proposed this solution for landscape enhancement in meego apps , especially for menu : http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=308109:28
* Jay_BEE searches youtube for a video showing MeeGo CE on N90009:29
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TheBootrooi will make a panel/timeline mockup soon, and a lockscreen/screensaver one too (in  fact i already have one to just finish)09:29
StskeepsJay_BEE: hopefully amandalam will make one of our summer release09:29
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Jay_BEEamandalam?09:29
Jay_BEEwhat's that?09:29
Stskeepsa youtube user09:30
Jay_BEEoh09:30
Jay_BEEI should just get off my lazy duff and install it09:30
Jay_BEEfound one09:32
Jay_BEEthis one is by amadahoic09:33
TheBootrooStskeeps: if a do  a plain Qt example for my timeline and the menu, any chance to get it 'copied' by meego handset guys ? i really want to help but don't have enough time and internet rate to really integrate the meego project as a developer ATM09:33
Stskeepsah, yeah09:33
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StskeepsJay_BEE: things have improved a lot in 3 weeks :)09:34
Stskeepsmorn lbt_nur09:34
lbt_nurmorning Stskeeps09:34
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lbt_nurhow goes it?09:34
Stskeepsah, the usua09:34
Stskeepsl09:34
Stskeepslooking at qemu bugs09:35
lbt_nurgood then09:35
Jay_BEEStskeeps: is the UX on the N900 CE the same as I would see on a tablet?09:35
lbt_nurgot yourselves a CE strategy and vision yet ... especially now you'll have new toys to play with :)09:36
Stskeepslbt_nur: saw my CE_Factsheet?09:36
StskeepsJay_BEE: ours is basically a community productization of handset ux.. long term would be tablet ux based09:36
Stskeepslbt_nur: http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/CE_Factsheet09:36
Jay_BEEso panels on the handset?  I think panels are perfect for a tablet, but not for a handset09:37
lbt_nurStskeeps: nope - didn't spot that ... reading09:37
TheBootrooStskeeps: could we propose a lot a modifications over tablet ux to get it really adapted to smal sized screens, and ty to be on pair with N9 Ui which is almost perfect ?09:37
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* Jay_BEE clicks the linkage09:38
StskeepsTheBootroo: actually tablet ux works fairly decently on small sized screens09:38
TheBootrooStskeeps: but is not optimized and has a lot of glitches09:38
StskeepsTheBootroo: there's many good reasons for that, many which are being fixed09:38
TheBootrooStskeeps: that'd why meego has a very bad reputation of a 'not_finished_so_no_future' product09:38
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Stskeepsand tablet ux is surprisingily good :P09:39
TheBootrooif at least i could have a working version of tablet ux on x86 ubuntu with nvidia card, i could very help09:39
TheBootroobut i can't help if a can't test09:39
Stskeeps:nod:09:39
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StskeepsTheBootroo: the thing is that the tablet ux is notoriously tied to the meego stack09:41
Stskeepsso having it on ubuntu is problematic09:41
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TheBootroois there really no way to keep an updated debian x86 version of meego packages using OBS to allow speed developping without expensive/inexisting/underpowered device ?09:41
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StskeepsTheBootroo: it takes quite a lot of effort to package up the stuff09:41
pabs3indeed, the Debian pkg-meego folks are apparently having a hard time of it09:42
TheBootrooStskeeps: i know and that is surely the meego stack libs that i can't achieve to compile on my compute.... and i can't even think abuot keeping all that stuff updating09:42
TheBootroothat why we need official packages09:42
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TheBootrooand i i had a RPM based distro ? like opensus or fedora ? could i run easily meego UX on it without emulation or virtualization09:43
Stskeepsnot really09:43
TheBootroobad09:43
TheBootroovery bad09:44
TheBootrooso no way for 80% of people to test/develop/use meego09:44
Botsikeasiest way to run meego without real hardware is still a VM, I think09:44
TheBootrooand N900 is underpower unfortunately09:44
TheBootrooBotsik: VM doesn't work09:44
TheBootrooBotsik: meego needs to many hard side stuff (KVM, SSSE3, intel graphisc...)09:45
lamikrTheBootroo Or you could just try to install meego for your pc and then try to install and configure meego ux to be launched there.09:45
Botsikapparently I have all of those then09:45
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TheBootroolamikr: meego CAN'T run on my pc09:46
TheBootrooBotsik: all a those are available on recent netbookx09:46
TheBootroonot on a 2 years old 17 inches HP laptop with nvidia gaphics09:47
TheBootrooand i have a eee Box too, with intel atom but yet nvidia graphics09:47
TheBootrooso no way to test meego on it09:47
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TheBootrooStskeeps: but why the hell does meego guys hard coded that graphisc MUST be intel and processor MUST be SSSE3 and alll09:48
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lamikrTheBootroo Oh, I didn't realize that. Usually I test with netbook where things works ok. (in addition of n900)09:48
TheBootrooTheBootroo: this make meego extremely hard to test and to develop09:49
StskeepsTheBootroo: ask the intel guys, i thought it was idiotic :) the 'must be intel graphics' is not totally true09:49
Stskeepspeople have it working on nvidia09:49
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Jay_BEEStskeeps: great n900 ce factsheet09:49
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TheBootroolamikr: i don't have netbook and i don't sse how i could develop on such small devices09:49
TheBootrooi will not pay 500€ for a device i will not use09:50
TheBootrooi must find a way to run meego on my EEE Box or on my laptop09:50
TheBootrooso with nvidia graphics09:50
lamikrOk... So display drivers are the biggest problem for you and that prevent even the normal install? (because once you have image installed, maybe you could rebuild yourself the display driver needed.)09:51
TheBootrooStskeeps: why couldn't meego use Nouveau drivers for nvidia,they work good to dispay stuff without particular bugs and are packed into linux kernel09:51
TheBootrooi don't see why meego kernel as been deleted some drivers09:52
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TheBootroolamikr: the iamge doesnt even start and throws me some error about missing intel drivers and all09:52
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dm8tbrTheBootroo: on x86 you're best off if you have all-intel-hw because that's what it will be optimized for as on the x86 side meego is close to a purely intel thing09:53
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dm8tbrcue someone saying that Nvidia is free to join MeeGo and fix that09:53
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TheBootroodm8tbr: i don't need optimization, i need it jsut work, i don't care about 500ms delay or 10-20 additional FPS09:54
dm8tbroh did I say optimized? I meant locked-in09:55
lamikrTheBootroo Ok, one workaround that could work is that if you can build another kernel in obs with nouveau enabled and then modify the ks file from some of the existing images in a way that image takes your own kernel.09:55
Stskeepsthere's nothing stopping anyone from submitting and maintaining the nouveau support, fwiw09:55
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TheBootrooi think meego UXes should be avaiblable in a repos allowing to install them a simple Desktop environmant on standard linux distro, as we do for gnome, kde, openbox...09:55
StskeepsTheBootroo: except you miss the point, the ux's aren't what is interesting, the stack is :P09:56
TheBootrooStskeeps: the stack will be installed by packages dependencies, just like KDE desktop installs nemopuk, kdelibs...etc09:56
TheBootroothe rest of meego is core linux09:56
TheBootrooall what is not linux is pure meego sutff09:57
TheBootrooso i don't see why it couldn't be installed on standard linux09:57
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dm8tbrTheBootroo: someone tried that with Smeegol, they got themselves a bloody nose09:58
TheBootrooand from my point of interest, UX is the most important, because stack is alreeady stabilized and i can't help if not, bu i can test and enhance UX09:58
TheBootroodm8tbr: which proves that meego distribution model is not yet god09:58
TheBootroo*good09:58
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* Jay_BEE attempts to install the meego ce09:59
TheBootrooa developer shloud be able to test meego programs under his usual linux distro, all programs even tablet UX panels and all09:59
TheBootrooand at the moment there's just no way10:00
StskeepsTheBootroo: i think you're speaking to the choir but the solution isn't as easy as it sounds10:01
TheBootrooand with my bad connexion i can't even think about building my own image for scratche because it WILL fail, i can't even dl a simple image these days, it get stuck at 200mo or tries to dl more than image size and corrupts archive (like 467mo of 450 image)10:02
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Jay_BEEi don't think i put u-boot on here since my n900 crash when heading for CES10:03
TheBootrooStskeeps: i can't do more at the moment10:04
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chouchouneTheBootroo: if you can't even download an image, you will anyway be stuck, even if all you wants works10:04
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TheBootrooStskeeps: why not just provide Live ISO of Meego UX and remove hardware tests from it to allow running on every Liux kernel supported hardware ?10:05
* RST38h moos triupmhantly10:05
RST38hHELO Stskeeps10:05
* Jay_BEE sees that he is running power4610:06
TheBootroochouchoune: if i know that an image is reay and works i can find a way to dl it, but i just can't dl one image per day to see if it works or not, and can't dl over 500 packages to build my own10:06
StskeepsJay_BEE: get uboot matching that then10:06
Jay_BEEStskeeps: ah yeah... memory faded a bit there hehe10:07
StskeepsTheBootroo: like any distribution, nothing's going to happen until someone contributes10:07
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TheBootrooStskeeps: and who contributes then ? i want to contribute but i cant til this problem is not fixed !10:08
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StskeepsTheBootroo: well, that's when you gang up with someone else to do it, working in a team10:08
TheBootrooi don't know anybody like tha10:09
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Jay_BEEheh... extras-devel is disabled10:10
TheBootrooStskeeps: my eeebox is ION plateform so is there quick even dirty fix to run meego Tablet UX and install10:10
Stskeepsthen the best way is to make a wiki page proposing a project for this, and send to meego-community or meego-dev10:11
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Stskeepsand gather interested participants10:11
* Jay_BEE enables it10:11
JaffaStskeeps: Your comment at 05:26 presumably relates to a conversation 7 hours earlier (but I've lost the context ;-))10:11
StskeepsJaffa: i commented at 6:26am my time? dear god10:11
Stskeeps[23:06] <Jaffa> Stskeeps: Did you have a "MeeGo Compliant" app in mind, btw for your Harmattan compatibility challenge?10:12
JaffaStskeeps: Muchos lag? ;-)10:12
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JaffaStskeeps: Ah yes. That was it. Do we know of a MeeGo Compliant app already? :-)10:12
StskeepsJaffa: there's test cases to check, so10:12
* Jaffa 'd be willing to give it a go (not for the money, but to support his other points)10:13
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* RST38h notices that the Battle of Wikipedians over the "Meego Compliance" title is continuing10:14
Stskeepsurl?10:14
RST38hStskeeps: Here!10:14
Stskeepsah10:14
RST38hFor Tentacled's sake, just stuff it. It is enough for the poor Harmattan to be late, hated by the mad Nokian CEO, and frowned upon by Intel.10:15
RST38hIt is the first freaking physical device that will let you write USABLE QML/QMobility based apps. Isn't that enough? For the first shot?10:16
TheBootrooRST38h: harmattan is great great amazing wonderful great10:16
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JaffaRST38h: Surely people should be saving up for an Aava to use as their primary device and be happy with the Handset UX?!10:16
TheBootrooJaffa: how coudl they be10:17
RST38hJaffa: I start saving for something when it hits the shelves and gets reviewed by a few people10:17
TheBootrooJaffa: aava is not yet available10:17
* Jay_BEE crosses his fingers and installs the kp46 u-boot10:17
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pabs3eww x8610:17
JaffaTheBootroo: It is. But it's an OEM platform which costs thousands of $CURRENCY10:17
RST38hJaffa: The consumer-usable Aava is pure vapor right now10:17
JaffaI didn't say consumer-Aava ;-)10:17
RST38hJaffa: Same as a few other Meego handsets10:18
TheBootrooits shit if we cant get it for max 600€10:18
JaffaWell, it's shit as a phone anyway. What's the battery life like?10:18
TheBootrooRST38h: there are no other meego handset but the n910:18
RST38hI dunno. How can I tell?10:18
JaffaI think we've proved our point :)10:19
RST38hThere is simply no data to be positive or negative about Aava, other than it not being ready10:19
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Jay_BEEaye... appman so slow...10:19
TheBootroook i will wait and buy the N9, at least i will have a fully working meego device10:19
mariobJust picked up: http://wiki.meego.com/Harmattan_Python. Looks great10:20
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TheBootroousually i like testing alpha things but in the case of meego, testing is just a real hell and pain in the ass, nothing works on 95% existing hardware :  understand well, i don't criticize bugs that are normal for alpha software, but hardware restrictions dues to hard coded bits (meego should jsut run everywhere other linux does)10:22
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Jay_BEEre... power outtage :(10:24
Jay_BEEu-boot up and running10:24
Jay_BEEStskeeps: any recommended image to use?10:25
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Stskeeps-testing, n900-de, handset image10:26
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TheBootrooStskeeps: pin query and usb dialog things are not yet in tablet image ?10:26
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TheBootrooi prefer handset ux, closer to harmattan guildelines which are great,and i prefer MTF to QML too, but i love panels, and appearance of tablet theme is far better....10:27
RST38hAh, fun: http://felipec.wordpress.com/2011/06/21/my-disagreement-with-elop-on-meego/10:28
* Jay_BEE goes for the 2011-06-22 -testing10:29
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TheBootrooRST38h: reading ...10:31
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TheBootroohe is ruining the most promising linux-based system i ever seen10:32
TheBootroothis Elop is  a real fool10:32
TheBootrooplus, harmattan is just for me the best UX for linux handset i saw out there10:32
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TheBootrooand he sweeps (!) this all to put shitty WP7 instead....10:33
TheBootroothe world is going worse and worse each day passing10:33
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MSMTheBootroo: The world has always been bad10:33
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TheBootrooMSM: but its gettings worse10:33
MSMI know :-(10:34
mikhasTheBootroo, thanks for actually praising MTF10:34
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TheBootroojust hope he si not completely stupid and seeing the N9 sucess even with its prematured death anouunced, he will lead Nokia making MeeGo Phones again10:35
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TheBootroomikhas: i think MTF is even better than stock QWidget and QML, and should replace both in QT5 IMHO, and just use QML like syntax to replace simple CSS, to skin MTF widget10:36
MSMWith keyboards this time10:36
TheBootroothat would be my real dream10:36
TheBootrooMSM: ye10:36
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mikhaswow, we have a fan here10:36
TheBootrooMSM: basically a Nokia N9 + N950 keyboard + USB Host + HDMI + Bluetooth 4.0+ LTE + FM RX/TX + SD card slot + Open bootloader + double core arm or atom10:36
mikhaseveryone else only tells us that MTF is shit ...10:37
TheBootroomikhas: i jsut can see good piece of soft when i see one and i think QML is piece of shit : syntax is good to skin widget but not to do full programming, i dont want to use interpreted language for my UI, i just wnat10:37
TheBootrooi just want a kind of advanced dynamic CSS to skin QGraphicsItem based widget10:38
MSMWould be the best device10:38
mikhasadvanced dynamic CSS: CSS with behaviour, IE, what Microsoft did years ago (allowing JS bits in CSS)10:39
TheBootrooshow you support to meego here  http://twitition.com/3c3ah10:39
TheBootroomikhas: myabe10:39
TheBootroo*maybe10:39
TheBootrooi think we need to mass buy the N9 even if its not ideal device to show Elop he was wrong and let MeeGo a chance to come back in Nokia phones10:40
mikhasyes, everyone please buy 7 N9's10:40
mikhas:-D10:40
TheBootrooi will buy it even if i think the keybord and FMTX of my N900 is irreplacable10:40
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TheBootrooand i hope and i pray God to clear elop memore about his shipt moment when he choose to let meego drop10:41
Stskeepsare we discussing meego.com or nokia? :P10:42
ieatlinti just wish the n950 was going to go on sale, and that it had nfc10:42
TheBootroo"please God forgive him, he didn't know what he was doing, he was just possessed by MS daemon...310:42
TheBootrooieatlint: N950 will NEVER be sale10:42
ieatlintyes, i realize that10:43
TheBootrooits a given device in meego developr program10:43
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TheBootrooieatlint: taht why we must buy N9, to show MeeGo interset, not this phone particulary, and then maybe nokia will make a full lineup of meego (with and whithout keyboard, tablet etc ...°10:43
ieatlinti'll see if i'm one of the lucky few who gets an n950, but even if so, i'll regret the lack of nfc10:44
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TheBootrooStskeeps: what is the green bar on top right of screen here http://wiki.meego.com/File:20000101-034513.png10:45
ieatlintwell, seeing as nokia doesn't seem to intend to sell the n9 in the US, it may be rather difficult10:45
ieatlintat least, on nokia.com/n9 it fails to list the US as a country it will be available in10:45
StskeepsTheBootroo: good question10:45
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TheBootrooieatlint: i already talked about that : entries exists (for france too) but are disabled the time for nokia to find partners in these countries10:46
TheBootrooieatlint: look at select HTLM code10:46
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ieatlintwell, i'm somehow 99% sure i will have an n910:46
ieatlintstill would prefer the hardware keyboard10:46
TheBootrooieatlint: and since it has no keybd and is pentaband you can buy it anywhere it will work10:47
Jay_BEEi'm holding out for hardware keyboard10:47
ieatlinti'm excited that i'll be looking at a device that arguably beats the "most advanced" android device on the market10:47
ieatlintJay_BEE: hey man10:47
ieatlintremember me from the conf? :P10:47
Jay_BEEieatlint: yeah! how are you!?10:47
TheBootroowe will find a case with integrated bluetooth keyboard10:47
ieatlintonly just catching up with work after losing a week10:48
Jay_BEEieatlint: losing a week to what?10:48
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ieatlintthe conference10:48
ieatlinti spent all of that week at the meego conference, and then in meetings, and wasn't able to work at all on my projects at work10:49
Jay_BEEieatlint: oh my... lol10:49
Jay_BEEbusy man you are10:49
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ieatlintnfc is fun :)10:49
Jay_BEEnfc rocks10:49
* pabs3 still not clear what NFC actually lets you do10:50
ieatlintdid you watch the n9 promo video from nokia?10:51
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ieatlintbecause they demo some advanced features there10:51
leoIs "https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=12455" fixed?10:51
MeeGoBotBug 12455 nor, Medium, ---, jesse.barnes, NEW, Displayed UI does not adapt to available screen resolution10:51
ieatlintin the video, they transfer an image via nfc/bluetooth10:52
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ieatlintjust tell the sending device "send via nfc", hold the receiving device next to it, and the receiving device will pair via bluetooth the sending device, transfer the file, and close the connection10:52
ieatlintall with just a couple user-friendly button presses10:52
ieatlintor the new speakers by nokia, where you just hold your phone next to the speakers, and it wirelessly pairs with them over bluetooth and starts playing your music with them..10:53
ieatlintor the ability to exchange phone number/email address by just holding phones next to each other… nfc is awesome10:54
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Jay_BEEthe exchange phone number/email thing has been around since the palm pda dayz...10:54
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ieatlintvia IR, yeah10:56
ieatlintbut name a recent device that did it10:56
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Jay_BEEwait... the n900 isn't capable of this?10:57
Jaffaieatlint: The Bump API on the iPhone10:57
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ieatlintin fact, the contact transfer was on the first palm device as i recall, and one of the major marketing ones10:57
JaffaJay_BEE: It is via BT, but that's fiddly to make a device visible; accept the connection and so on10:57
Guest46126 /msg NickServ identify zah76031010:57
ieatlintfail10:57
Jay_BEELOL... nickserv fail big time10:57
ieatlintJaffa: i've heard reference to that, but not seen it used10:57
ieatlinti saw obj-c, and i ran away crying10:57
Jaffaieatlint: It looks *just* like NFC, but I can't remember how it works10:58
Jaffaieatlint: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZudLSKaBgM10:58
ieatlintmust be bt10:58
TheBootrooieatlint: true, objC is ugly10:58
ieatlintyeah, requiring a 3rd party app is meh10:59
Jay_BEEvery meh10:59
ieatlintthe C7 and (presumably) the N9 support v-card10:59
ieatlintover nfc, i mean10:59
TheBootrooWhat the hall, only 650 guys want to keep MeeGO on nokia ? would it be true finally ? meego doesnt interest public ? go here and sign  http://twitition.com/3c3ah  or do it on facebook if you dont have twitter account10:59
ieatlintthe sending phone needs a 3rd party app on the c7, however11:00
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ieatlintI am unclear on the N9 supporting sending contacts natively over nfc11:00
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TheBootroocould a channel admin put the link for petition in the subject of channel please, would help visibility : http://twitition.com/3c3ah11:01
Jay_BEEwell... let me back off from that meh... doing it via software isn't too bad even if it's a third-party... what makes me chuckle is seeing people adding IR doo-hickeys to their iphone to do IR remove11:01
TheBootroowe must hit 100 000 sign up, we are far11:01
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ieatlinti think so long as the receiver doesn't need a special app, it's good, because if i want to send someone my phone number, it shouldn't be "okay, but do you have ___ installed?"11:02
Jay_BEEtrue11:03
Jay_BEEhmm... something went wrong with the dd... seems to be taking forever11:03
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TheBootroohummmm N950 lookx really reall sexy in black11:06
TheBootroobut is it yet alu or plastic ?11:06
JaffaCoated aluminium (like N8, I guess)11:06
TheBootroohoping i'll get mine soon, already requested11:06
TheBootroowill we be able to install all apps made for N9 on the N950 ?11:07
TheBootrooor will it be blocked ?11:07
ieatlintif applications are open for another week, i wouldn't expect approvals too soon11:08
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Jaffaieatlint: Bump's description of their technology is pretty cool and avoids problems with wireless network sharing, BT pairing etc: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3383447/how-does-bump-technology-work11:17
Jaffaieatlint: Allegedly the accelerometer information is fed up into the cloud and then broadcast back down11:17
polySDK 1.2 20110519 fails to install on 64 bit Arch linux. Is there an alternative method to install the SDK?11:20
Jay_BEEwow... the image copy finally finished11:20
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JaffaGah, the Harmattan qemu build is far too slow to be usable :-(11:22
TheBootrooJaffa: true ? there is a harmattan ui testable in it ?11:23
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* Jay_BEE boots up t3h MeeGo 1.2 CE w00t11:23
TheBootrooJaffa: where did you found it ?11:25
Jay_BEEhmm... the time is off... timezone probably set to the moon11:26
TheBootroohttp://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/unstable/beta/qemu/ is not found 40411:28
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TheBootrooJaffa: i'll try to install the SDK tonight to be able to test a little harmattan UI11:33
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TheBootroowhich disk space is needed ?11:34
Jay_BEEMeeGo 1.2 CE is nice11:34
wazdhello all11:35
JaffaTheBootroo: It's part of the Qt SDK update.11:37
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JaffaTheBootroo: http://labs.qt.nokia.com/2011/06/21/introducing-meego-1-2-harmattan-to-the-qt-sdk/11:37
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TheBootrooJaffa: oh ! you can have a working harmattan ui in qt sdk ?11:38
JaffaTheBootroo: Yup11:38
Jay_BEEpoly:  you're in uncharted waters... the sdk is only validated on 32-bit linux distros11:38
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TheBootrooJay_BEE: i always thought that 64 bit was unappropriate for developpement11:39
Jay_BEEtry hitting up the meego-sdk email distro or even the forums, perhaps someone there has accomplished this11:39
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Jay_BEETheBootroo: unappropriate?11:40
JaffaTheBootroo: http://twitpic.com/5f3kov11:40
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TheBootrooJaffa: cant see my proxy blocks all from twitter, use hostingpics.net11:42
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bkalingadoes anyone has any idea about this error "Unable to find libthread_db matching inferior's thread library, thread debugging will not be available."11:46
Stskeepsfairly normal11:46
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bkalingaStskeeps: is your answer to my Query??11:47
Stskeepsyes11:47
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BluesLeehow do i mount the n9 jffs2 rootfs? how are the dimensions of the nand?11:48
bkalingawhy is this normal ...due to this i am not able to put break points and not able to debug11:48
polyJay_BEE: Ok, Thanks.11:48
StskeepsBluesLee: not jffs211:48
Stskeepsbkalinga: not the reason11:48
TheBootrooBluesLee: BTRFS11:48
bkalingaStskeeps: is there any work around for this problem11:48
BluesLeeStskeeps: i have a jffs2 here11:48
StskeepsBluesLee: it's just a name11:48
Jay_BEEpoly: there is also #meego-sdk11:48
TheBootrooBluesLee: you have N9 ? fricking lucky one11:48
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BluesLeeTheBootroo: i dont have an n911:49
StskeepsBluesLee: it's quite likely a ubifs11:49
X-FadeAfaik it is ext4.11:49
BluesLeeStskeeps: doesnt seem so11:49
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bkalingaStskeeps: " bkalinga: not the reason" i am sorry I did not get you11:50
TheBootrooJaffa: can you send the pic on hostingpcs please twitter related things are blocked here11:50
JaffaTheBootroo: http://bleb.org/software/maemo/harmattan-ui-sdk.png11:51
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TheBootrooJaffa: kthx11:51
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bkalingais there any way i can put a break point (using gdb) as currently it does not show the symbols11:51
TheBootrooOMG i think i poo in my pants11:51
TheBootrooi need this sdk11:51
BluesLeeStskeeps: i mean, i edited the run script, renamed it to tar, untared it,  i got a binfiles directory with emmc.bin and img.bin, used flasher to extract img.bin and it gave me a jffs211:51
TheBootrooare apps functionals ?11:52
Stskeepsbkalinga: install debuginfo packages11:52
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BluesLeeJaffa: there is a simulator in the sdk for harmattan? how do i run it?11:52
JaffaTheBootroo: The "Widgets Gallery" is. Trying "Calculator". I don't see why they wouldn't, they're just *sloooow*11:52
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TheBootrooJaffa: you lag because you use SOft GL11:53
JaffaBluesLee: There's the standard Qt Simulator and there's also a Harmattan qemu image11:53
JaffaTheBootroo: True - I might try forcing it to hard (it's currently set to "auto")11:53
TheBootrooJaffa: i think use use your linux box without props drivers11:53
bkalingaStskeeps: you mean debuginfo packages for service framework (My shared object that i wanted to debug uses service fw)11:53
Stskeepsyes11:53
JaffaTheBootroo: Well, Unity & games work very well with the NVidia drivers11:53
TronicWhere I can join the MeeGo developer community and apply for N950? Cannot find a form on the website.11:53
timophmeego.com11:54
Tronictimoph: Yes, I cannot find a form there. Could you be more specific?11:54
JaffaTronic: http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=359711:54
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TheBootrooi alreay asked for a n950 on developer.nokia.com but i see no visual feedback to know if the action was saved on website11:54
JaffaTheBootroo: Where did you find it on developer.nokia.com? Launchpad didn't have a programme last I saw11:55
BluesLeeJaffa: do i need a special version of qemu? the link for qemu here does not work http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Platform_Guide/Developing_with_Harmattan_Platform_SDK/Using_QEMU11:55
TronicYes, I did read that thread also, and it links to https://meego.com/community/device-program/devices/nokia-n9-devkit which links back to the thread.11:55
TronicIt says that commercial developers should contact http://developer.nokia.com/ but doesn't say where open-source projects should apply.11:55
timophTronic: it does11:56
bkalingaStskeeps: My /etc/zypp/repos.d/1.2-oss.repo  [1.2-oss-debuginfo] contains  http://download.meego.com/snapshots/1.2.0.90.0.20110517.1/repos/oss/ia32/debug11:56
JaffaBluesLee: It's bundled.11:56
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timophTronic: the dev kit == n95011:56
bkalingawhich is not a valid link11:56
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bkalingacan some one point me to the corect link11:56
Tronictimoph: Why are you only telling me things I already know?11:57
Tronic"Candidates must be community developers ready to start working on new or existing open source applications, to be published in apps.meego.com and the Nokia Store. Links to your current projects are relevant! Deadline for applications: end of Tuesday, June 28th.11:57
timophTronic: you seems to have already found the right place but you are clearly not seeing something11:57
JaffaBluesLee: You a) update the Qt SDK using the "SDK Maintenance Tool"; b) add "Qt SDK > Experimental > Harmattan" packages; c) add Harmattan device configuration (qemu) under "Tools > Options..."; d) Go to "Projects > (+) > Harmattan"; e) make sure it's the Qt SDK Qt version, not the Platform SDK Qt version11:57
TronicWhere can I (a) become a community developer (haven't registered before) and (b) apply for a devkit11:57
JaffaTronic: And at the top of that forum post there's a link to the meego.com Community Device Programme.11:58
timophTronic: (a) register to meego.com (b) goto the dev kit page11:58
JaffaTronic: There, it'll prompt you for your meego.com account and/or how to get one11:58
Jay_BEEtimoph is correct11:59
TheBootrooJaffa: there http://www.developer.nokia.com/Developer_Programs/Launchpad.xhtml11:59
TronicJaffa: That's where I copy&pasted that text from. No instructions or form there. Maybe I need to have meego.com account, let's see...11:59
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JaffaTheBootroo: That's for joining Nokia Developer Launchpad. I have that. There's no N9(50) programme under the Launchpad homepage when you get one.11:59
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TronicOkay, logged in and now it shows that apply for device button. Thanks :)12:04
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BluesLeeJaffa: hmm .. i updated qt sdk as you described ... qt sdk version vs platform sdk qt version ... i have the qt creator running but i dont see tools/options there?12:05
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JaffaBluesLee: Tools > Options > Maemo > Maemo Device Configuration12:07
BluesLeeJaffa: it seems to be configured in the settings for maemo: qemu12:07
BluesLeeJaffa: i have to google several things12:08
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BluesLeeqemu server? hmmm12:08
JaffaBluesLee: Leave as defaults.12:09
TheBootrooJaffa: any way to extract harmattan binaries from harmattan target for sdk and make them run on maemo 5 (like facebook app and accuweather one, and the event timeline)12:09
Jay_BEEok... tis bedtime for me... gn12:10
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toninikkaneni wonder does harmattan use the same ABI as fremantle ?12:10
toninikkanenhardfp vs softfp and so on12:10
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Stskeepsharmattan is hardfp, like meego 1.2 armv7hl12:11
* alterego considers flash :)12:11
alteregoActually, does harmattan even have flash?12:12
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toninikkanenyes12:12
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alteregoSo it may be possible to use that plugin in MeeGo CE on the N9(5)12:12
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alterego~(50)12:12
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alteregoCrap, for some reason evo has made all the mails in my inbox dissappear ..12:14
Jaffatoninikkanen: Harmattan doesn't have Flash according to the official docs.12:14
BluesLeeJaffa: okay, i get deployment errors as qemu is running but to slow?12:14
alteregoJaffa: the specs miss out on a few things it has.12:14
alteregoOh, it's selected "Unread messages"12:14
Jaffaalterego: Flash is pretty key.12:14
alteregoYes, it is :)12:15
toninikkanenJaffa: hmm, that's weird if true12:15
Jaffaalterego: More specifically, it actually explicitly says nothing in the "Flash runtime"12:15
JaffaBluesLee: Yeah, I had to get qemu started and then try and launch my app then (from within the UI)12:15
JaffaIt's a *lot* better with hardware GL, "auto-detect" obviously a bit crap12:16
Stskeepshttp://stskeeps.subnetmask.net/iloveagilebrowser.png - Agile Browser is so the best, unknown tool of meego12:16
alteregoIs that the one they demo'd in SF?12:16
Stskeepsyes12:16
alteregoThat shows package deps?12:17
Stskeepsyes, for instance12:17
alteregoCool12:17
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BluesLeeJaffa: same with hardware gl here ...12:19
BluesLeeare there are solutions with xephyr or whatever?12:20
alteregoStskeeps: did you get my message last night in handset?12:21
TheBootrooxephyr doesn't have GLX context support12:21
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alteregoStskeeps: the meego-terminal is a good cross-platform candidate :P12:21
BluesLeeJaffa: something happens :-)12:21
Stskeepsalterego: no12:22
BluesLeeStskeeps: wow, only a matter of hours:-) do i need to press some keys? i see a black landscape screen with kernel version  ... something happens ... hehe12:23
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JaffaBluesLee: None of Calculator, Clock, Notes, ... do anything for me. However, Widget Gallery starts and I can swipe to the multitasking view12:27
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BluesLeeJaffa: mentioned apps dont start ...12:29
TheBootrooBluesLee, Jaffa : are they fake apps ?12:31
JaffaTheBootroo: Dunno. Only one which launches so far is Widget Gallery. Lack of a console (come back Scratchbox, all is forgiven!) makes diagnosing what's going on a bit tricky12:31
TheBootrooevent timeline functionnal at least ?12:32
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TheBootrooor is there only menu + widget gallery12:32
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JaffaTheBootroo: It's present. I haven't tried invoking dbus to put something on it yet12:33
JaffaOooh, something else started. One of the QML examples with a green icon12:33
TheBootroosnice accounts are functional, just try configure your facebook or twitter in it12:34
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Termanamorning12:37
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BluesLeeJaffa: hehe ... its not big fun with the emulator so far12:39
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bkalingai | 1.2-oss     | servicefw                                          | 1.2.0~beta0+git2726-9.35     | i58612:40
bkalingai want a corresponding debug package12:40
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Jaffaachipa: Do you know what's supposed to work in the Harmattan qemu Qt SDK emulator? Most of the apps don't start (Widget Gallery and one of the QML demos do), so I dunno if my app not starting is a config error in Qt Creator, a code error or an issue in the emulator12:40
bkalingafrom where i can get it?12:40
BluesLeeJaffa: check the drive app12:40
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TheBootroodo you think the few apps i made here are enough to get a N95à ? http://modern-os.projects.servhome.org/mobileApps/12:44
JaffaTheBootroo: That's not for us to know. Ask and ye may receive12:45
JaffaTheBootroo: I'd give you one just for showing a cool album in DiscoTek12:45
TheBootrooJaffa: that's true, it's a very good album12:46
TheBootroo;-)12:46
MeeGoExpertsReminder: http://www.meetup.com/MeeGoExperts/12:50
TheBootrooblocked by my proxy12:50
TheBootrooForbidden By Proxy  You don't have permission to access http://www.meetup.com/MeeGoExperts/ on this server. Forbidden by category "ADVANCED_URL_ads".12:50
MeeGoExpertsWow. I didn't realise it was an Advanced URL12:51
MeeGoExpertsThought it was Standard … Lol12:51
JaffaTheBootroo: Your work URL policy is shit12:51
TheBootrooJaffa: you can't even imagine at which point12:51
TheBootrooJaffa: the link a posted, i can't even visit it12:51
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goshakkkhey everyone12:51
MeeGoExpertsSo whos coming tomorrow ? Drinks + Food + MeeGo Chat …. What more could you ask for ???12:52
TheBootroocategory 'phishing' lol12:52
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TheBootrooMeeGoExperts: N950 for everybody ?12:52
alteregoHeh12:52
timophMeeGoExperts: we're having food + drinks + sauna + meego chatter today :)12:52
alteregotimoph: yeah, rub it in :P12:53
alteregoAnd you've got N9's and N950's12:53
TheBootrooalterego: +11012:53
MeeGoExpertsBUT …. Yes, Free N950 for EVERYONE  â€¦â€¦ (as long as I can get them)12:53
timophalterego: :D12:53
* alterego chuckles12:53
alterego(as long as I can get them) ;)12:54
MeeGoExperts+1 FREE Hooker …. Second one you need to pay for !!!!!\12:54
alteregoI don't think it's fair bringing your mom into this12:54
alteregoooooo!12:54
goshakkkCan anybody recommend resources about development for N9 for man a little bit similar with Qt12:54
MeeGoExpertsI'm SURE you didn't say that to me ?12:55
alteregogoshakkk: what?12:55
alteregogoshakkk: use Qt12:55
alterego"What you say about my momma!?!"12:55
alterego"Momma said knock you out!!"12:55
* alterego does a little dance.12:55
goshakkkalterego: I'm just a beginner in Qt.12:55
alteregogoshakkk: then read the tutorials, examples, best thing is to learn by doing12:56
alteregoSo just get in there!12:56
Jaffaalterego: That's what *your* mum said12:56
BluesLeewhat about the n9 rootfs? how are the dimensions, fs of the n9?12:56
TheBootrooJaffa: XD12:56
TheBootrooBluesLee: yes i asked too but no1 answred12:56
goshakkkalterego: Can ya recommend tutorials?12:56
alteregoN9 rootfs is 512M12:57
alteregoWith a presumably similar setup to the N900 with eMMC and "optification"12:57
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alteregoI don't see why that matters though ..12:58
goshakkkalterego: Btw why the initial app created in Qt Creator doesn't work in both vertical and horizontal orientations? How can I change this behaviour?12:58
alteregoYou'll have more than enough space to install applications.12:58
TheBootrooalterego: why did they do that again12:58
TheBootroowhy not a single partition for all OS12:58
alteregogoshakkk: read tutorials, I'm not here to teach you and without an SDK or device I can't anyway :P12:58
alteregoTheBootroo: because if the handset fails, it's safer to just reflash the rootfs rather than loose all of your data, it's a feature really.12:59
alteregoBut again, don't worry about it, why does it matter?12:59
BluesLeealterego: just asking:-)12:59
TheBootroobut 512 Mo is really too few with a 64GB device, there could be at least 8gb for System, and the rest for DOcs12:59
alteregoTheBootroo: no, and stop worrying about it.13:00
goshakkkwho will get N950?13:00
TheBootrooalterego: i worry because it's reallt bad13:00
goshakkkand when?13:00
alteregoThe 512M is NAND, it's much quicker than eMMC (which is the 16G or 64G)13:00
alteregoIt isn't bad13:00
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alteregoSo the 512M has the core operating system and the 16/64G is partitioned into application storage and user data.13:00
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alteregoNow stop fucking worrying, IT DOESN'T MATTER13:01
alteregoBut if you'd prefer, Nokia could make a device that costs thousands because _you_ want a 64G NAND pop on your SoC ..13:01
TheBootrooalterego: developpers will still to do tricky changes to store data to the right path to not cause a rootfs overflo13:01
alteregoTheBootroo: no, it's taken care of13:02
* RST38h moos approvingly: yes, we definitely want a 64GB NAND POP13:02
alterego_STOP WORRYING IT DOESN'T MATTER_13:02
TheBootrooRST38h: +100013:02
Stskeepsoi, caps13:02
Stskeeps:P13:02
RST38halterego: actually, /ignore works on him13:02
Stskeepsalterego: actually, rootfs is on emmc13:02
alteregoTheBootroo: what path are you going to to store data in?13:02
RST38hNo need to scream13:02
alteregoStskeeps: really?13:02
alteregoHeh13:02
alterego#meego the new tmo :P13:02
bossalterego: Error: "meego" is not a valid command.13:02
alteregoStskeeps: is NAND being used then?13:03
TheBootrooalterego: why are you that pedantic13:03
Stskeepsalterego: mtdswap probably13:03
alteregoTheBootroo: I'm not pedantic, I know how the systems are supposed to work, you're just not listening.13:03
TheBootrooalterego: i just asked, half knowing the answer but hoping a change13:03
alteregoTheBootroo: the only place you _should_ be storing data is in /home/user13:03
alteregoTheBootroo: that is on eMMC, you have more than enough room13:04
TheBootrooalterego: i was speaking about program data, not user data13:04
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alteregoTheBootroo: what program data? The executables? Images?13:04
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JaffaBluesLee: Speed of qemu has meant I've had to increase "connection timeout" in Tools > Options... > Projects13:04
alteregoTheBootroo: when you package your application it gets installed on the eMMC, that data is there, there is plenty of room.13:04
TheBootrooi know how a system works too, i'm developer and linux user since 8 years13:04
JaffaBluesLee: Speed of qemu has meant I've had to increase "connection timeout" in Tools > Options... > Maemo13:04
JaffaBut now my app has started :-)13:04
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TheBootrooalterego: that's what i wanted to know13:05
alteregom'hmm13:05
TheBootrooi have some programs here with many ressources (big images, sounds..)13:05
TheBootroothink about games too13:05
alteregoI don't need to think about it13:05
alteregoBecause I know it doesn't matter :P13:05
TheBootroonothing else matters13:06
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kavachaI am getting errors when running image-creator13:25
kavachasudo mic-image-creator -c handset-ia32-qemu.ks -f raw -k mycache --run-mode=1 --release latest --mainrepo oss13:25
kavachahttp://pastebin.com/erEscVQJ13:25
kavachahas anyone encounterd such an issue13:26
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dnearyandre__, Ping?13:28
* slaine waves to dneary 13:29
dnearyHi slaine13:29
dnearyslaine, Do you know where the sources for the "package management" app(s) are?13:30
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slainedneary: rpm, zypper, PackageKit ?13:31
timophdneary: you mean the one in the community edition?13:31
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dnearytimoph, Yes, I suppose?13:31
timophwait-a-sec13:31
dnearyslaine, See http://bugs.meego.com/1169113:32
timophhttps://gitorious.org/meego-developer-edition-for-n900/mg-package-manager13:32
dnearySo whichever piece of software is responsible for the error message "Dependency resolution failed: A package could not13:32
dnearybe found that allows the action to complete. More information is available in13:32
dnearythe detailed report."13:32
dnearytimoph, Thanks13:32
timophnp13:32
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* alterego wonders when the N9 availability will actually show up in the UK ..13:33
slaineI think that's PackageKit13:33
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slaineAn abstraction over yum/zypper/apt13:33
timophdneary: if you have questions about it ping kyranto in -arm or -qa13:34
dnearyslaine, It's a terrible message13:34
dnearyIt should be:13:34
slainedneary: I agree13:35
slaineMan, I should get some breakfast, it's 11:35 and I've been up since 613:35
dneary"Dependency resolution failed for package '%s'. Please remove this package from your update list and try again."13:35
dnearyOr whatever13:35
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dnearytimoph, Silly question: are there instructions somewheer for how to get the sources?13:37
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dnearytimoph, "git clone https://gitorious.org/meego-developer-edition-for-n900/mg-package-manager" didn't work13:37
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timophdneary: try git://gitorious.org/meego-developer-edition-for-n900/mg-package-manager.git13:38
slainedneary: I don't think that's the package manager you're looking for13:38
timophit's not13:38
Stskeepsdneary: what UX?/device13:38
timophthat's only included in the community edition13:38
dnearyStskeeps, Lenovo13:38
dnearyNetbook13:38
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dnearySo prolly not that :)13:38
Stskeepsah, must be packagekit then13:38
bkalingadownload.meego.com is down today or permanently out of order??13:39
slainedneary: I'd do an rpm query to see what package kit packages where installed, then have zypper download the source rpm13:40
slainethen try and hunt down the string13:40
dnearyThanks13:40
slainepatch would have to go upstream then13:40
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alteregoThe BBC news article on the N9 isn't exactly positive.13:41
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slaineYou might also be able to do a strings command to find the file the owns the text and narrow down the package that owns it and therefore what source rpm you need13:41
dnearyslaine, Packagekit-gnome13:41
dnearyMy desire to fix the problem just decreased :(13:41
mecealterego, url plz?13:42
slainelol13:42
slaineyes, we can imagine how that would go13:42
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dnearyalterego, Really? You found it not positive?13:42
mecealterego, nvrmind got it.13:42
dnearyI wouldn't put it that way13:42
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alteregodneary: well, it wasn't positive :)13:42
alteregoIt leaned to the "dead end platform"13:43
alterego"Why is nokia doing this for such a niche segment" .13:43
alteregoBlah13:43
mecealterego, well they actually said nothing about the phone. At all.13:43
alteregomece: indeed, http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-1386374113:43
dnearyalterego, I would have said "negative" myself13:43
slaine"Nokia has unveiled a smartphone based around a technology that it has already started to sideline."13:43
alteregoHeh13:43
slainethat's the opening sentence13:43
dneary"not positive" implies neutral somehow13:43
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slaineimplies the opposite to positive to me13:44
alteregoWell, they were trying to be neutral, but as the whole story was based around "nokia has unvieled a smartphone based around a technology that is has already started to sideline."13:44
alteregoIt's sort of hard to be neutral from _our_ perspective ;)13:44
alteregoI guess we don't really know what Nokia will do with MeeGo13:45
alteregoThough I've heard they've setup a permanent meego lab in Tampere13:45
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alteregoThis is something that only time will tell though :/13:46
goshakkki'm sorry, but can I send some applications for device program? with different apps13:46
slaineWe can only hope that they may continue with a few projects that they may have had in the fire already, especially if the N9 is well received. If it actually sells well, we can hope for more projects13:46
slaineBut it's all up in the air13:46
Damion_bbc article not very positive13:46
slaineI've opened it in a tab, I'll read it later13:47
alteregoI think in some ways, it needs to be played down, so that other manufacturers feel more inclined to come on board MeeGo13:47
Damion_that obviously means negative.  I think I need to pass this around:  http://www.albertoandreu.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Diapositiva11.jpg13:47
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slaineright now, I've to figure out why libmpeg2 on vlc 1.1.x doesn't work too well :(13:47
alteregoBut it is our only "MeeGo" handset.13:47
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alteregoAnd the device kind of seems like they've cut a few corners to stay in some budget of some kind.13:48
alteregoI'll be quite suprised if it sells for more than the N813:48
alteregoEven disappointed.13:48
slainealterego: my guess is that they had to scramble with some compromised version of the N9 to get it out when the N950 was rejected late last year.13:49
alteregoYeah, maybe13:49
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Damion_rejected by elop?13:51
slaineDamion_: No, carriers13:52
slaineI think that's when they had crisis meetings and conjured up WP7 devices13:52
Aranel*noob question* Installed MeeGo 1.2 on Ideapad, where can I get software for it? Garage doesn't work and software sources list is empty.13:53
alteregoThat may explain why the N9 doesn't look like it's in the UK and USA yet ^.^13:53
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slaineAranel: shouldn't be empty at all, there's plenty of software in the default repos13:54
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Aranelslaine: default repos :| I don't have them. Where can I get a list of them?13:55
slaineAranel: they are there by default13:56
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slaineyou need to be online for them to work though, I assume your netbook is online13:56
Aranelit's online13:56
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Aranelslaine: I touch on Manage Apps, select a category, and It shows up empty (Filter: Only Available)13:59
slainestrange alright14:00
Aranelslaine: btw what's the rpm equivalent of "apt-get update"?14:00
AranelI want to try terminal way.14:01
slainesudo zypper dist-upgrade14:01
slaineGoogle for the zypper cheat sheet, I find it helpful14:01
slaineas I mostly use yum14:01
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Damion_is there somewhere I can chat about the n950 with somebody who has one?  I've done a /list -YES and no channel mas "950" in it's topic/name14:05
Aranelslaine: Building repository "1.2.0-non-oss" Download (curl) error for "http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/releases/1.2.0/repos/oss/ia32/packages/repodata/repomd.xml": Error code: Connection failed Error message: Couldn't resolve host 'repo.meego.com'14:06
slaineAranel: actually, somebody mentioned earlier that download.meego.com was out of service, it looks like they're having some trouble14:07
slaineHmm, I just tried the url and it works for me14:07
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Aranelslaine: works for me on my Ubuntu box too, weird. :|14:08
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slainelooks like your meego box isn't online14:08
slaineafter all14:08
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Aranelslaine: I'm pretty sure It's online, I'm browsing web using chrome (and I can open that link too), for some reason zypper can't connect but chrome does.14:12
goshakkkso can anybody tell me can I send 2-3 applications for n950?14:13
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RST38hgoshakk: You can send as many as you want14:14
RST38hyou  /whois texrat14:14
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lardmanmorning14:14
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RST38hmoorning lardman14:17
lardmanhi RST38h14:17
IcanCUwhats this n950?14:18
alteregogoshakkk: you can do but isn't that a bit greedy?14:19
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lardmaniirc there's a section where you can say what else you plan to do with the devicev14:19
goshakkkalterego: for example if I have many ideas for apps, what should I do?14:19
lardmanapart from your main project proposal14:20
timophgoshakkk: no. just one. read quim's post on the forum14:20
goshakkktimoph: can you give a link please14:20
alteregogoshakkk: why do you need multiple devices?14:20
timophwait-a-sec14:20
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goshakkkalterego: no. I need one device. I only need to enlarge my chance of getting N9 Devkit14:21
alteregoThen list your ideas in the text field.14:21
alteregogoshakkk: will they be free open source apps?14:22
lardmangoshakkk: Jaffa quotes Quim at the top of this page: http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=2901&page=714:22
lardmanfor reference14:22
goshakkkalterego: 'cuz I think MeeGo is very perspective platform. Even better that Android, WP7 and Symbian14:22
goshakkkalterego: probably yes14:22
alteregoWell, if they're not you should apply for a devkit through nokia developer.14:23
vvaltoneIs the N9/N950 really MeeGo?14:23
juliankAs arjan commented previously, the Nokia devices are not MeeGo devices14:23
vvaltoneah, yes14:24
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alteregoThe the closest thing we have to a meego handset14:24
goshakkkalterego: but without a device I can't make them. That's bad.14:24
goshakkkMaybe only one will be closed-source. I sent appliiation for joining launchpad14:24
alteregoThey're ..14:24
goshakkkalterego: but it can't be applyed yet14:24
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alteregogoshakkk: well, apply there, the meego n950s are for community developers.14:25
goshakkkwasn't*14:25
juliankThey use Harmattan, which is basically what Maemo 6 would have been, a Debian-based distribution with apt and friends, but with the MeeGo API stack on top14:25
alteregoAnd taking our limited devices isn't very nice :P14:25
TheBootroovvaltone: meego = 50% maemo 50%moblin and   harmattan = 50 % maemo 50% meego  ;-)14:25
alteregoEspecially if you plan on charging us for it.14:25
alteregojuliank: yes, we know.14:25
goshakkkalterego: I tried. When there will be results?14:26
alteregoIt's meego on debian :P14:26
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alteregogoshakkk: be patient.14:26
TheBootroogoshakkk: i hope you don't start dev just today only to get a free N950 ?14:26
alteregoThe 250 devices meego.com are distributing are loan devices for those of us that contribute to meego, if you're not a contributer your chances are quite slim of obtaining one.14:27
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juliankalterego: And it ships a python-apt release from last year which I do not support anymore. I'd be much happier if it would be updated to version 0.7.100.114:27
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goshakkkTheBootroo: um, my Harmattan emulator works ver-very slow so the only way to develop app is having MeeGo device. I really wanna develop for MeeGo... It impressed me more that Android, WP7. Only iOS is better14:28
alteregomeh, who needs python :P14:28
timophalterego: true. and even among the active contributors it's going to be tough to get one since there's only 250 of those14:28
alteregogoshakkk: if you're doing this commercially, which it sounds like you plan to, then wait for nokia developer and please don't take our limited devices away  from the community.14:29
goshakkkalterego: I'm. but... Harmattan really inpressed me. I need it asap to start dev for MeeGo....... And make awesome apps the easy way14:29
alteregoWe all need it ASAP14:29
lardmanlol14:29
alteregoIn the same way we need next years model now.14:29
alteregoStop, take some deep breathes and be patient.14:29
timophgoshakkk: you won't get a device from meego.com program for commercial development14:29
goshakkkalterego: ok...14:30
lardmanIs there any info about how the device will sync?14:30
alteregoYour life doesn't depend on it :P14:30
TheBootroohope i'll get mine in time to allow coding during holidays (mid august)14:30
goshakkkalterego timoph : I am willing to develop open source apps, most of all14:30
goshakkkand learn platform at all14:31
alteregogoshakkk: we have 250 devices for community developers, having people randomly promising that they might develop a few free open soure apps doesn't help us.14:31
alteregoIt just makes the decision of who to give devices to harder for the commitee.14:32
TheBootrooalterego: for my part i've made many apps for maemo 5 in qt and i will rewrite them using MTF, and create new ones14:32
pabs3alterego: how long is the loan for? and what happens to the devices when they are given back?14:32
juliankalterego: I want one, but I don't have any special cool thing planned. Does writing a few applications and help the MeeGo community project sound like a good reason?14:32
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goshakkkalterego: for example I am planning to develop client for Russian social network called VK, the facebook clone, which is very popular in there. and some productivity apps14:32
alteregoTheBootroo: then you're the kind of person that should apply ;)14:32
BluesLeealterego: i can write a "hello world" app ;-)14:33
alteregoThe devices are loaned until N9 release, then you get a choice of trading it for an N9 or keeping it.14:33
BluesLeehehe14:33
TheBootrooalterego: already done ;-)14:33
alteregoTheBootroo: good job :)14:33
goshakkkalterego: so when N9 releases I can exchange N950 for n9, right?14:33
pabs3alterego: nice, I doubt you will get many trade-ins though :)14:33
poly__Especially since you can't replace the battery on the n9.14:34
TheBootrooalterego: still have to wait, hope it will take less than 1 month14:34
alteregogoshakkk: no14:34
TheBootroogoshakkk: you can pay for it14:34
BluesLeeexchanging for which price?14:34
goshakkkalterego: but I can save N950 for free, right?14:35
alteregoTheBootroo: sounds like they're pushing very hard, that's why the deadline is Monday :)14:35
Jaffajuliank: It *is* a "MeeGo device", it's OS is officially listed as "MeeGo 1.2 Harmattan". See, it says MeeGo. It's not MeeGo *compliant*, but it's got use of the MeeGo trademark to describe its OS :-p14:35
Jaffajuliank: If we're being pedantic14:35
TheBootrooBluesLee: kind like 714:35
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TheBootrooBluesLee: kind like 40% cost down14:35
timophgoshakkk: about applying it from two places see -> http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=22847&postcount=2814:35
juliankJaffa: Yeah, somehow.14:35
leinirmmm, pedanticism ;)14:35
BluesLeeTheBootroo: i thought of wp7;-)14:35
BluesLeeTheBootroo: the device is not available in germany so far, no one knows the real prices, so i dont see the big advantage to jump on the train14:36
goshakkktimoph: I sent my application to Launchpad for firts because I didn't know about MeeGo device program14:37
TheBootrooBluesLee: N9 is not available in France neither14:37
juliankIt has just been presented, I don't expect it to be available in the next months14:38
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BluesLeeTheBootroo: in the end i may have to pay for taxes and 3 months after that the n9 is available in my country for the same price14:38
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achipaJaffa: don't know, a bit swamped with SDK setup buzz, will get back to you on that14:39
BluesLeethe general idea to generate apps via a loan program for community members is not bad14:39
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goshakkkalterego: but I can save N950 for free, right?14:40
BluesLeewe will see how the commercial devs will treat n9/meego14:40
TheBootroogoshakkk: STFU you freaking parasite14:41
goshakkkTheBootroo: WTF?!14:41
Jaffaachipa: It's OK - I've got the SDK launching Attitude, so it's more a question of interest.14:41
Jaffaachipa: I'll do step-by-step instructions on how I got it up & running14:41
X-FadeTheBootroo: Turn it down a bit please. I'm warning you.14:41
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katsrchello14:42
achipaJaffa: don't forget it's beta, has some stuff stripped (partners, etc, etc) so not entirely sure what should or shouldn't work out of the box14:43
katsrcdoes anyone know if there will be more mobile manufacturers who will use MeeGo on handsets?14:43
achipa(from the builtin stuff)14:43
katsrchas any of the companies announced anything yet?14:43
Jaffaachipa: Well, "Calculator" and "Clock" don't do anything.14:43
achipakatsrc: after the N9 demo, I'm pretty sure.14:43
AranelInstalled MeeGo 1.2 on Ideapad but I can't get new software :| zypper cant resolve repo.meego.com, but same url works on chrome. How/Where can I get software?14:43
katsrcachipa: nice14:44
meceachipa, does it have.. umm.. skype, for example?14:46
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achipamece: the qemu image ? I doubt it14:46
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TheBootroogoshakkk: i jsut told you that because was the third time you ask if you can keep the phone after the N9 come out : we are not there ATM, start developing with qt, and wait for developer device comitee answer and stop annoying us with commercial aspects of a free operation concerning free software....14:46
achipathat's usually one of the first things that go. then twitter, facebook, and friends14:47
meceachipa, heh oh.. I didn't read enough of the discussion apparently :) I meant the n950 :)14:47
TheBootrooX-Fade: don't take it bad, i just talk with some noob here ;-)14:47
achipamece: of course. It has more account plugins than the N90014:47
X-FadeTheBootroo: You sound like that too.14:47
achipaabout 2x as much14:47
meceachipa, yep yep :)14:47
TheBootrooX-Fade: after all my language was not very delicate, i admit14:48
goshakkkTheBootroo: ...14:48
goshakkkwho is noob?14:48
goshakkk14 year-old programmer with great knowledge of Ruby?14:48
TheBootrooX-Fade: but i'm far from a noo you know14:48
achipawe'll need an irc one, though... not mainstream enough to be in a 'real' firmware14:48
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TheBootrooJaffa: so the SDK is just like an empty shell right ? at least can it run MTF apps flawlessly ?14:48
meceachipa, xchat is on the list of requested apps... http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=7415414:49
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timophmece: https://build.pub.meego.com/package/show?package=xchat&project=home%3Atimoph14:50
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mecetimoph, so will that be for harmattan too?14:51
timophmece: dunno14:51
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JaffaTheBootroo: The SDK is not an empty shell - it has lots of icons, some of which work. It can run my QML application.14:53
TheBootroogoshakkk: no, i have nothing against  14 years old people (i started dev at 9), neither Ruby (that i don't pratice), it's more about a guy that 'wanna do that but don't know how to, help plz kthx' or that want something  without preocupating of the goals and constraints of an open source project and talks like all was about money....14:53
TheBootrooJaffa: does accounts and sharing framework work ?14:54
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bkalingaMy /etc/zypp/repos.d/1.2-oss.repo contains baseurl=http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/releases/1.2.0/repos/oss/source/14:54
bkalingabut it is not there now14:54
TheBootrooJaffa: because first apps i'll do may be a dropbox  integration14:54
goshakkkTheBootroo: I started dev at 9 too. my first lang was probably PHP.14:54
bkalingato where it got moved14:54
alteregoHah, is PHP a language?14:54
bkalingahow can i sync to its present Location14:55
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TheBootrooalterego: it should be14:55
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alteregopfft14:56
javispedroso, make a proposal stating you want to maintain the php qt bindings ;)14:56
TheBootrooJaffa: does Google sync work (i mean, real mail push without NOkia messaging which is lame, and calendar sync ) better than on maemo ?14:56
alteregoHahah14:56
BluesLeeTheBootroo: consider that the sdk n9 simulator is very slow14:56
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goshakkkalterego: yes ;) but now I understand how stupid that lang is... Ruby is the best ;)14:56
goshakkkBtw, why there is the way to dev for N9 with Python, but there is not any way to dev with Ruby?14:56
alteregoRuby is good for what ruby does good, just like any app.14:57
TheBootroojavispedro: never get the point about php bindings : you can dev qt UX using php  ? WTF...14:57
alteregogoshakkk: because someone stopped maintaining the ruby maemo port ..14:57
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alterego*coughs*14:57
javispedroyou know, using the best language for the tool..14:57
TheBootrooBluesLee: its not about slowness but about buginess i wanna know14:57
javispedrothe other day I dreamt of verilog QT bindings14:57
javispedroits not actually unreasonable if you think about it14:58
goshakkkalterego: it's very bad14:58
bkalingawarning: /var/cache/zypp/packages/1.2-oss-debuginfo/qt-mobility-debuginfo-1.2.0~beta0+git2726-9.31.i586.rpm: Header V3 RSA/SHA1 Signature, key ID 44e4155a: NOKEY14:58
alteregoI wouldn't use either for graphical apps if you value user experience :P14:58
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javispedroalways @(click button1)14:58
alteregogoshakkk: what is bad?14:58
javispedro#1 $do(animation)14:58
bossjavispedro: Error: "1" is not a valid command.14:58
bkalingahow to solve this /var/cache/zypp/packages/1.2-oss-debuginfo/qt-mobility-debuginfo-1.2.0~beta0+git2726-9.31.i586.rpm Public key is unavailable14:58
alteregogoshakkk: if you want to develop for meego, learn Qt/C++14:58
goshakkkalterego 02:57:24 PM14:58
goshakkkgoshakkk: because someone stopped maintaining the ruby maemo port ..14:58
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goshakkkalterego: i know C++ a bit. and used Qt many moons ago.14:59
alteregoYes, it was me.14:59
alteregoI used to do a ruby for maemo, but lost interest14:59
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alteregoI basically lost interest when the N900 came out and decided I wanted to write apps instead of wasting time maintaining ruby ..15:00
goshakkkalterego: but I can learn C++ well, while developing an app for perspective platform ;)15:00
TheBootrooat basis Qt = C++15:00
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goshakkkTheBootroo: but Qt's QML is not15:00
TheBootroogoshakkk: IMHO QML is not adapted to development, only to skin UX15:01
TheBootrooi find QML pointless as independent language15:01
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goshakkkTheBootroo: i know15:01
* alterego wonders off.15:02
TheBootrooi would more see it like a newer version of Qss, a dynamical style sheeting language for QWidget or MTF15:02
goshakkkguys, is there some reference tables for iOS developers to help with migrating to MeeGo?15:02
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* TheBootroo warns alterego about nostalgia15:02
TheBootroogoshakkk: intel was talking about this months ago but didn't yet saw the day ligh15:03
goshakkkTheBootroo: it's bad... For me dev for iOS was something native. But dev for MeeGo doesn't seem like it.15:04
goshakkkTheBootroo: yet15:04
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alteregoQML has no relation to MTF or QWidget15:04
TheBootroogoshakkk: start learning, there are many resources over the web for Qt4 and MeeGoTouchFramework15:05
TheBootrooalterego: i know15:05
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bkalingawhen I manually edit the  /etc/zypp/repos.d/1.2-oss.repo file to add a new repo ;Do i need to do some other steps apart from zypper refresh15:05
TheBootrooalterego: i said that i would prefer QML as styling language for them instead of a full programming languaue because the syntax is not done for that15:05
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bkalingaI am getting some error related to   Public key15:06
bkalingacan some one please point whats wrong?15:06
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TheBootrooalterego: like on a QPushButton, put a style kinda "shadow: 3px black; max-width: parent.width - 20px;"15:07
alteregoQWidget already handles style sheets like that.15:07
TheBootrooalterego: nope15:09
TheBootroonot such advanced properties15:09
TheBootrooonly a subset of css 2 and css315:09
TheBootrooyou can't use vars or objects15:09
TheBootrooyou can't even set "DEFAULT_BLUE: #4500C0;" and then use "border: 1px solid DEFAULT_BLUE"15:10
TheBootroobut that what i would like15:10
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TheBootroobut instead, qt dev are putting all their strenght into QML but i'll not use it : i don't make javascript/json app, i do C++15:11
alteregoThe idea of QML is to write thin UXs ontop of C++15:14
TheBootrooJaffa: did you found how to force hard GL in SDK ?15:14
TheBootrooalterego: QLM syntax is not thin15:14
TheBootrooQML make too indented and too property-based syntax15:15
alteregoThat's the point, and it's great15:16
alteregoIt's up to you how much logic you put into javascript, or little.15:16
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alteregoQML as a declarative interface design language is brilliant. and If you don't want to use it, then use the designer instead ..15:17
TheBootrooits not really javascript, there is almost no proggramming, only declaration, i call it litteraly JSON15:17
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TheBootrooi prefer  my_button->setSize(25, 45);  than  my_button { width: 25; height: 45; }; its more evident : if you have too many things about my-button, you don't seen the name of the class and you get many more subdeclarations, keeping the code unreadable15:17
alteregoThat makes no sense.15:18
TheBootrooalterego: QML should be used in QtDesigner classic to skin widgets in place of old Qss15:18
JaffaTheBootroo: Tools > Options... > Maemo > qemu setup15:19
leinir...those are two completely different use cases, TheBootroo15:19
TheBootrooalterego: plus : QML is interpreted language, much slower than classic designer which is turned to plain C++ by the moc15:19
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TheBootrooleinir: maybe butn in this case, i don't agree people who want to do big programs entirely in QML, that makes no sense15:20
lcukTheBootroo, use case dependent.  sometimes the intrinsics and animation stuff inside qml will be as fast as what you could do the same manually15:20
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leinirWhat you did in the first one would be my_button.height = 45; my_button.width = 25;15:20
lcukbut for data processing requirements and real processing, c++ is still best15:20
leinirmy_button { width: 25; height: 45; } would be declating a new, unnamed object of type my_button15:21
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TheBootrooleinir: no in C++ we dont set property directely, we use proper functions, setters15:21
lcukwe lazier coders will use properties :P15:21
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leinirTheBootroo: i'm not saying your c++ was invalid, i'm saying your QML was not doing the same thing :P15:22
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lcukmorning leinir and Jaffa \o15:22
lcukand tom15:22
TheBootroolcuk: that's ugly and what i love about Qt coding is that its proper and logical15:22
TheBootrooleinir: maybe. i don't use QML15:23
lcukwow :P first time I have heard c++ described as proper and logical15:23
Jaffalcuk: o/15:23
* lcuk thought the one true language was c15:23
JaffaPerl15:23
leinirThe QML code would be equivalent to this C++ code: { my_button* lala = new my_button(someparentobject); my_button->setSize(25, 45); } (very important with the outer curly braces, because you're declaring it in a way so it exists but you can't reference it by name later on)15:23
lcukheh15:23
TheBootrooleinir: but last time i tried to modifiy a small app un QML, i was surprisedof the complexity of the code, with all these declaration nested15:23
TheBootroolcuk: not plain C++, i talk about Qt Classes15:24
lcukTheBootroo, you have same nesting in C++ OO class trees15:24
lcukc++ is fun until you start overloading operators15:24
lcukthen when you add things up and find somebody did a switcharoo on the + operator ;)15:25
leinirlcuk: c++ is all fun and games until someone redefines new ;)15:25
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lcukheh15:25
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alteregoHeh15:25
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leinir(yes, i'm aware that it has its uses)15:26
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TheBootroolcuk: QML mix the hierarchical widgets nesting  (rectangle in rectangle in rectangle) and the functional nesting (in a given object i do something in this state, in that one ... etc)15:26
timophlcuk: why? you can fun with overloading new15:26
timophoh. leinir brought that up already :)15:26
TheBootrooso the syntax gets quickly heavy15:26
lcukother people can15:26
* lcuk writes pseudocode15:27
TheBootrooat least use QML just like Designer use XML and implement the functional in plain C++15:27
TheBootroobut mixing both make the thing very indigest15:27
lcuknot joking either timoph --> http://liqbase.net/liq.20110621_200232.codebox4.scr.png15:27
javispedroovirriding operators in c++ has many many surprises even when you do not do outright evil stuff15:27
timophlcuk: cool15:27
lcuktimoph, many many times I would half draw an outline for a class  or function onto paper15:28
lcuknow I can just do it in my handtyping15:28
timoph:D15:28
alteregoTheBootroo: you can do that already ..15:35
alteregoThat is the point, but qml is nice to edit, and I don't like designers.15:35
Jaffalcuk: That looks like Pascal...15:36
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pabs3lcuk: whats that font?15:36
slaineJaffa: the Begin/End takes me back alright15:38
JaffaI was doing Delphi 5 years ago :-(15:38
slaineOuch15:38
JaffaAfter being employed to do Java. That was a shock.15:38
slaineWell, we've all got our scares. I was forced to do VB6 stuff for a while15:39
lardmanhmm, I had to do some VB6 a couple of weeks ago15:39
lardmannot pleasant on Win715:40
TheBootrooslaine: me too :X15:40
lcukpabs3, that is my handwriting15:40
lcukJaffa, that is nonsensical code15:40
lcukbut there is a parser for it15:40
lcukas yet not wired up, but it exists15:40
pabs3lcuk: :) nice, needs some anti-aliasing though15:41
RST38hDelphi still exists in open source15:41
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lcukpabs3, at 250dpi+ I dont15:41
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lcukanti aliasing makes font lines 2x as wide15:41
lcukbut anti aliasing is available when I use qpainter to render sketchfonts in15:42
lcukso people will be able to choose :)15:42
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diegoviolahi15:51
diegovioladoes MeeGo uses Wayland or will use in the future?15:51
pabs3I heard it is planned for the future. 1.4 or something15:51
diegoviolawow, great!15:51
diegoviolathanks!15:51
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JaffaPlanning and changes are afoot to try and get it in in 1.315:51
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bkalingai have /etc/pki/rpm-gpg/RPM-GPG-KEY-meego will it be valid for all repos that i add to /etc/zypp/repos.d/1.2-oss.repo15:53
pabs3based on what the Debian maintainer of it says, I wouldn't bet on wayland being useful15:53
bkalingaor this needs to be modified15:54
pebcakpabs3 guess it depends on what you want ;)15:55
diegoviolapabs3: it's just a matter of getting apps ported to it i guess, Wayland is a serious win in lots of things.15:55
diegoviolaless footprint than X, KMS, etc15:55
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diegoviolaX is more useful now though15:58
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diegoviolaGoogle also rewrote graphics stack for Android? I'm not sure.15:59
RST38hDoes Android have a graphics stack?16:00
lcukpixelflinger16:00
ShadowJKi thought pretty much all of it was custom16:00
lcukreasonably low level java based engine16:00
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RST38hYep, so far, lookslike a collection of semirandom Java classes16:00
lcukworks well so I hear16:00
RST38hAnd yes, I am honestly trying to develop for Android nowadays16:01
pebcakdiegobz you mean zygote?16:01
RST38hlcuk: Works like the old PalmOS raped by Symbian.16:01
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RST38hlcuk: But at least it looks like its designers are actually using whatever they design on the daily basis16:02
DocScrutinizerI'd consider X an immutable mandatory component of any proper linuxoid OS16:02
javispedroandroid has a graphics stack16:02
javispedroit's ..16:02
javispedroI have no words.16:02
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RST38hDoc: Why?16:02
lcukit is fast enough16:02
DocScrutinizerotherwise it's... well Andrid, or other crap16:03
RST38hDoc: X is really mostly to provide universal local+remote access to the desktop16:03
javispedrothe android graphics stack has references up to the BeOS ;)16:03
RST38hDoc: So, a Linux with the plain /dev/fb* device is still a Linux16:03
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DocScrutinizernot in my book16:03
pebcakxdirectfb? :D16:03
RST38hDoc: You are being a purist16:03
ShadowJKX mostly lets you run  tons of existing software16:04
DocScrutinizeras mentioned above, *I* consider X11 madatory16:04
RST38hDoc: In this particular case, wrongly16:04
Damion_needing a GUI is for n00bs16:04
javispedroI agree with Doc here, my definition of sane Linux includes X.16:04
pebcakand let#s you run it over network :P16:04
Damion_anyway won't wayland have an X11 compatible module?16:04
* lcuk still wants visual basic 6 on his devices16:04
RST38hjavispedro: Even if the only thing you ever use it for is to blit locally stored bitmaps?16:04
pebcakDamion_ you can run x on top of it16:04
Damion_all that's going to happen is some apps with not be network transparent in the same way ?16:04
diegoviolaDamion_: Wayland allows you to host a Xorg session as a Wayland client.16:04
Damion_like when Sun has NeWS16:04
javispedroRST38h: do you use it for something else these days?16:04
RST38hjavoispedro: exactly16:05
RST38hjavispedro: Even for remote access, I use VNC16:05
Damion_or with OpenGL which is uselss if you're not local.  Some wayland only GUI apps not being able to be X forwarded is no loss as long as a wayland system can still receive an xterm16:05
RST38hWhich works beautifully with the plain framebuffer16:05
pebcakvnc sucks16:05
pebcak:P16:05
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lcukand as a purest think any computer without Msvbvm60.dll incomplete ;)16:05
javispedrolcuk: even MS!16:05
RST38hlcuk: Any Windows computer.16:06
Damion_is that the new vbRun200.dll ?16:06
RST38hlcuk: Don't stick your dirty file into Unix ones =)16:06
* lcuk giggles16:06
Damion_last time I used windows was over a decade ago16:06
javispedroDamion_: s/new//16:06
lcukRST38h, I make linux binaries and still call them .exe16:06
pebcaklcuk yuck16:06
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RST38hlcuk: And you name shell scripts with .bat? =)16:06
lcuk:D hell yeah16:07
javispedrolcuk: you should talk more with miguel de icaza, you have many things to share16:07
RST38hAnyways, I do not consider X such a big issue, personally16:07
lcukno16:07
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RST38hI do consider POSIX compatibility a big issue though16:07
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Damion_anyone in london want to see the n950 ?16:07
lcukjavispedro, the thing I am getting at: visualbasic 6 ide is splendid16:07
RST38hWhatever you do to that libc and libsockets and libpthreads, they should be compliant16:07
lcukand was designed for lower screen resolutions16:07
lcukso my 1024*600 ideapad is closer to its original design size16:08
lcuk(regularly had it on 800*600 desktops)16:08
javispedrolcuk: are you talking about the sdi or mdi one?16:08
pebcakDamion_ could you send it to berlin?16:08
pebcak:D16:08
lcukjavispedro, MDI, I like my sanity16:09
lcukotherwise it looks like GIMP16:09
Jucatohello. quick question, is a 4GB micro SD (class 6) enough for meego 1.2 CE or do I need 8GB? should I even be asking this in here? :)16:09
lcukand windows get lost16:09
StskeepsJucato: sounds good16:09
pebcaklcuk ever seen gimp unstable?16:09
lcukJucato, 4gb is perfect16:09
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JaffaDamion_: Damn. Am tomorrow/Friday, but working from home today16:09
JucatoStskeeps, lcuk: ah thanks. I finally found one earlier in a local store. unfortunately, not enough funds. will try again in a few days and hope they still have stock. :)16:10
pebcakhttp://pebcak.deviantart.com/gallery/221404 << gimp unstable <316:10
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Jaffaberndhs: So who *do* you trust? (re: https://twitter.com/#!/berndhs/statuses/83523388571779073)16:19
Jaffaberndhs: Any UX which is vaguely MeeGoish has been developed behind closed doors and thrown over the wall.16:19
berndhsits just when a company changes their story a few times, and says things that are only technically true, my trust in them is limited16:20
berndhsthat's normal I think16:20
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Jaffaberndhs: Which company and "things" are you referring to?16:20
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berndhsNokia about their MeeGo policies16:20
berndhsand actually about Maemo as well16:21
leinirJust be a pesimist and expect everybody to take you for a ride, because then you can be pleasantly surprised when, from time to time, they don't ;)16:21
berndhswhat they have done over the past 18 months or so makes them hard to predict for outsiders16:21
leinirand the rest of the time you can have the smug self-satisfaction of "I told you so"-ness ;)16:22
Jucatoleinir: taking quotes from me? :P16:22
JaffaI'm not sure it "changed" - it evolved and got bigger, until it fundamentally changed on Feb 11th.16:22
berndhsMeeGo was a surprise for the Maemo community, wasn't it ?16:22
JaffaAs it was to the Moblin community, wasn't it?16:22
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berndhsmy point is that without insider knowledge, Nokia is not predictable16:23
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Jaffaberndhs: OK, but are you claiming that someone else *is*?16:23
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berndhsno I'm saying that Nokia isn't16:23
JaffaWell if no-one is predictable, Nokia not being either is a bit of a non-statement ;-)16:23
berndhsand this isn't Elop, it's Nokia16:23
Damion_back later16:24
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RST38hHell, Nokia is unpredictable even with insider knowledge16:24
RST38hMay have to resort to psychiatrists and the chaos theory16:25
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MSMAnd the phases of the moon16:25
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berndhsas long as you don't need to do any planning of your own based on what they do, that's ok16:26
monoidBERND16:26
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fiferboyHow many different sets of "components" (QtQuick, QML, ?) are there?16:31
fiferboyI am losing track16:32
TheBootrooqml it language16:32
TheBootrooqtquick is framewrok16:32
TheBootroothere is a kit of components for meego : macro qml element : MeeGo Components16:33
TheBootroothere are Qwidgets from Qt plain C++16:33
TheBootrooand there are Widgets developped by nokia team on top of QGraphicsItem : MeeGo Touch Framework16:33
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berndhsand there are the components used by the N9 stuff16:34
TheBootrooSO you are doing Qt (hear QWidget), QML (QtQuick with MeeGO Components) or MTF (MeeGo Touch Framework)16:34
monoidhave you n9 specs16:34
TheBootrooberndhs: N9 uses MTF16:35
TheBootrooberndhs: just a theme on top16:35
berndhsah I see16:35
fiferboyI am trying to figure out the minimum number of UIs I need to target desktop, the various MeeGo platforms, and Harmattan16:35
pvuorelaTheBootroo: mtf and qt components.16:35
pvuorelaand qt components is what app developers should use.16:35
TheBootrooand there is a subset of MTF used by meego tablet UX (which is in QML but needs Qt Classes) named MLite (or MLT)16:36
TheBootrooQt Components are 'official' meta widgets for QML16:36
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TheBootroopvuorela: developer could use MTF, which is base framework for Harmattan by example16:37
fiferboySo I can safely forget about MTF since it is only (?) used in Harmattan, but you can also use plain Qt and QML there16:37
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monoidtoo many puppies16:37
TheBootrooIMHO MTF is closer to plain Qt and looks better too.16:37
berndhsHarmattan might really fly in the market and be continued16:38
TheBootrooberndhs: yes16:38
fiferboyTheBootroo: But was is the future potential of MTF?  Isn't it being phased out most places?16:38
TheBootroofiferboy:  MTF != QML16:39
slainefiferboy: that's my understanding, the problem is that there's a disconnect between the MeeGo UX Components and the Qt Components used in Harmatten for QML apps16:39
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fiferboyTheBootroo: Right, I would rather focus on QML if MTF is being deprecated16:39
TheBootroofiferboy: MTF is for guys (like me) who want beautiful Hardware accelerated UI in plain C++16:39
Stskeepsbecause of !$%^ stupid decisions to close the harmattan ones16:39
Stskeepsfor instance16:39
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TheBootroofiferboy: it will not be, and i will never focus on QML16:40
slaineMTF was deprecated in Feb iirc for MeeGo16:40
JaffaStskeeps: Stupid decisions abound around both sets of Qt components :-(16:40
Stskeepsslaine: way earlier16:40
fiferboyTheBootroo: But if you are going to target other MeeGo UX platforms MTF won't necessarily be there16:40
berndhsI think you're better off having mechanisms to support n versions of QtQuick16:40
berndhsthat way you don't ahve to care what value n takes next month16:41
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TheBootrooHarmattan  UI was before all a concept of beautiful UI based on Qt and that would have been common between Symbian 4 and Maemo 6. Then went MeeGo and nokia developped MTF for it. then went Elop, and Nokia seemed to close MeeGo dev but in fact continued it closed doors16:41
slaineI think the approach I'd take would be to target Qt C++ with UX descriptor in QML and try to find common ground between both sets of components.16:42
TheBootroofiferboy: then i will use plain Qt16:42
TheBootroofiferboy: i don't want QML in my apps16:42
slaineEither design around the diffs or work with meego to provide abstrations16:42
fiferboyTheBootroo: Plain Qt isn't properly themed in a lot of cases on MeeGo16:42
TheBootroofiferboy: that will be enhanced, but QML is not finished neither stable16:42
pvuorelanot just themed, plain qwidgets qt isn't really proper for mobile devices that support different orientation or finger usable ui.16:42
TheBootrooMTF was nice, because they were QGraphicsView + SVG + CSS and overall C++, QML is lame i dont want Javascript apps, i want C++ Apps16:44
gabrbeddfiferboy: QML has themes, now?16:44
TheBootroogabrbedd: not really16:44
gabrbeddTheBootroo: I know.16:44
Jaffaslaine: Indeed, I think my first non graphical (i.e. standard UI app) is going to have some adaptation layer16:44
fiferboygabrbedd: Point taken, you can theme your own qwidget application16:45
TheBootroogabrbedd: only redefinitions of widget set, because QML is basically sotry of rectangles16:45
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Jaffaslaine: Cos I want to target both. I imagine a few devs'll do this and we'll merge them and try and build on top of each other's work.16:45
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fiferboyBut Qt Components is supposed to provide a unified look and feel16:45
Jaffaslaine: Of course, to be MeeGo Compliant we can't depend on this library/adapting QML library, we'll have to copy & paste or not be compliant16:45
Jaffafiferboy: It is. On Symbian & Harmattan.16:45
slaineNod, I totally +1 your LWN post16:45
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fiferboyJaffa: And MeeGo UX Components on MeeGo targets16:46
Jaffafiferboy: It *might* also work on MeeGo "proper". In which case, MeeGo UX Components may fade anyway16:46
Jaffafiferboy: Correct.16:46
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fiferboyDoes Qt Components follow the desktop Qt look and feel on a desktop target?16:47
slaineAre Vendors expected to provide their own extensions to Qt/MeeGo Components ?16:47
slaineI'm thinking HTC Sense UI here16:47
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slaineIF HTC decided to make a MeeGo device with QML apps, they'd want set of Sense UI extensions I'm sure16:48
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TheBootroofiferboy: i don't see how they could, they are not Qwidget, they are only styled rectangles16:48
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berndhsyou can make anything you want out of styled rectangles :)16:48
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fiferboyTheBootroo: http://labs.qt.nokia.com/2011/03/10/qml-components-for-desktop/16:49
Jaffafiferboy: There is a project on labs.qt.nokia.com --^16:49
fiferboyLooks like there is potential there16:49
Jaffaslaine: They can supply additional libraries of components, I guess.16:49
Jaffaslaine: But apps depending on it won't be compliant16:49
JaffaWhich seems reasonable16:49
slainetrue16:49
JaffaThere're still a lot of questions about compliance & QML though, I think16:50
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TheBootroowhich is lame16:50
lcukberndhs, try drawing sketches with rectangles only16:51
TheBootrooi think we could have a MeeGoTouch QStyle for plain Qt Apps no ? and then for each meego theme, a simmple CSS to change colors and fonts16:51
lcukand note that the one true polygon is the triangle16:51
TheBootrooberndhs: yes but since the functional is merged with appearance in QML, you need a new version of each component for each theme16:51
lcukjust ask javispedro16:51
lcukn-tier!16:52
JaffaOf course, Apple get away with succesful devices without theming. And I've never seen user-themed Android devices (maybe I've not looked)16:52
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berndhsTheBootroo: yes basically you need to do different "import" for each target16:52
lcukJaffa, having a good framework and enough customisation to get around it, you do not need widget theming as such16:52
berndhsTheBootroo: at least, potentially different qml code16:52
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lcukbut where you want to totally customise not only look but feel too16:52
lcukyou need variation components16:53
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TheBootroo_my connection bugged16:55
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TheBootroo_i was saying16:56
monoidare specs of n9 public an is it the the last meego device?16:56
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berndhsmonoid: its not the last meego device, that's pretty certain16:56
Jaffamonoid: The specs are public; it is not the last MeeGo device, it *may* be *Nokia's* last MeeGo device16:57
TheBootroo_we could have basically a qstyle for meego and use css to just change colors and fonts, and then have a fully themable component kit for plain c++/Qt416:57
monoidi have not found the specs16:57
monoidwhere are they?16:57
Jaffamonoid: http://swipe.nokia.com/16:57
monoidthank you very mutch16:57
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monoidthat is not specs16:58
Jaffamonoid: They're in there somewhere16:58
TheBootroo_monoid: look at specifiaction section on the site16:59
Jaffamonoid: https://www.developer.nokia.com/Devices/Device_specifications/N9/ more specifically then16:59
monoidi foun http://www.phonearena.com/phones/Nokia-N9_id518717:00
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monoidthey are sure quiet about the SoC and hardware17:01
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Jaffamonoid: Really? It's an OMAP363017:01
Jucatothe link Jaffa gave has the details17:01
TheBootroo_monoid: read carefully17:01
Jucato(the last link)17:01
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monoidhttp://www.gadgetnews.in/nokia-n9-meego-smartphone/  also17:02
monoidjaffa's link does not contain "OMAP"17:02
Jucatoit does17:03
JucatoTI OMAP Model 363017:03
monoidhttp://www.developer.nokia.com/Devices/Device_specifications/N9/17:03
monoiddoes not contain "omap"17:04
Jucato...17:04
Jucatoyou sure you've expanded them all before you did your search?17:04
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monoidexpanded what?17:05
MiskaXmonoid: General -section says "TI OMAP Model  3630"17:05
JucatoExpand All | Collapse All17:05
Jucatoexpand the sections17:05
TheBootroo_monoid: you noob ?17:05
monoidwhy do they hide it?17:05
monoidnow i see it17:05
monoidwhat is 'rom memory'?17:06
TheBootroo_64GB17:06
monoid512MB partition for the OS?17:06
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monoid"ROM Memory:  512 MB"17:06
Jaffamonoid: Yeah, I think it means root partition17:06
TheBootroo_monoid: just expand the memory tab17:06
TheBootroo_monoid: or go read one of the thousand articles that reproduce the specs and some photos17:07
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monoidif i hadn't expanded the memory tab, i would not have seen "ROM Memory:  512 MB"17:07
t8hey guys, what's in store for nokia?17:07
t8does it exist in a few years?17:07
monoidbut thank you for your attempt at assistance TheBootroo_17:07
SpeedEvilt8: It will exist.17:09
SpeedEvilt8: If its stock price will have collapsed, and it will be a brand of a chinese maker - who knows.17:09
monoidnice to see ogg vorbis support!17:09
monoid1450mAh  yaay!17:10
DocScrutinizereh? 1340->1450 = yaay ??17:10
DocScrutinizer<10%17:11
monoidbetter than 125017:11
ShadowJK1250?17:11
berndhswell if all you needed was 1341 mAh, its a big step :p17:11
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DocScrutinizerhehe17:11
monoidN900 = 1250mAh BL-5J17:11
lcukHi,17:12
lcukJust a quick note, we are busy at work still.. You can grab the testing image (final candidate) from here now:17:12
lcukhttp://repository.maemo.org/meego/n900-de/daily/1.2.0.90.5.20110621.5.DE.2011-06-22.1/images/mg-handset-armv7nhl-n900-ce-testing/17:12
lcukTomorrow morning we will have the final image, and I will let you know. Sorry for the slight delay!17:12
lcukJukka17:12
* ShadowJK needs accurate near-realtime battery state tracking, after that managing power use becomes possible17:12
DocScrutinizerthat last mA might suffice for the house number at end of 911 call17:12
ShadowJKmonoid, 132017:12
DocScrutinizeroh, 20, not 40, ok17:12
monoidhmm you are right17:13
ShadowJKnot that it's 1320 as used in N900, but best compare published values with published values17:13
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TheBootroo_lcuk: its summer release RC ?17:15
DocScrutinizerI'm more amazed about what N9 makes out of those 1450mAh17:15
ali1234fun fact: the 5800 uses the same BL-5J battery and it lasts for about a month17:15
DocScrutinizersupposed standby on WCDMA is incredible17:15
DocScrutinizerwondering if they got a new modem or still are using BB517:16
lcukDocScrutinizer, the ui looks reactive rather than fancypants wasteful effects17:16
TheBootroo_ali1234: 5800XM is 384Mhz and always disconnect network if not in the browser17:16
lcukie, nice and polished and simple17:16
lcukTheBootroo_, yes17:17
ShadowJKN900 runs about 10 days in same conditions iirc17:17
ali1234yeah, iow, it works properly17:17
ali1234you can't expect users to reconfigure the whole phone just to make the battery life acceptable17:17
ShadowJKoh actually, that was with internet connected17:18
lcukso make it great out of the box17:18
ali1234yes17:18
lcukand give a ux that requires little modification17:18
lcukand win/win17:18
monoidcan this run meego? http://www.pocketdroid.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Motorola-Milestone-3.jpg17:19
DocScrutinizerlcuk: N900 been great ootb, it's just way too easy to get it messed up by silly animated wallpapers widgets younameit17:19
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DocScrutinizerSKYPE!!17:20
lcukDocScrutinizer, widgets were often not animated, it was and remains things like internet services etc17:20
DocScrutinizeryeah, skype17:20
DocScrutinizerand other IM sh*t17:20
lcukand media metadata collection ;)17:20
TheBootroo_lcuk: i'm gonna try to dl it tonight but each time i tried, it has disconnected me à 150 MB or worse, dl all with very changeant rate (every second move between 5Kbps and 500Kbps) and at end continues to dl i don't know what even with 450/450MB done and goes  endless like this (i finally stopped it à 576/450MB WTF)17:20
destinal-homemonoid: it would be cool to see palm pre2 / hp pre3 running meego  :)17:21
TheBootroo_monoid: all can run meego but nothing does because of blocked bootladers and missing drivers17:21
destinal-homethe hp/palm devices have no bootloader locks17:21
DocScrutinizerlcuk: tracker supposed to run once17:21
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destinal-homebut drivers, that's a potential issue, yeah17:21
lcukTheBootroo_, the maemo servers have been solid, stable and reliable for pretty much the duration I have been around17:21
lcukI guess it is your end that is not so stable17:21
monoidhp/palm is not landscape is it?17:22
destinal-homeno, portrait slider17:22
lcukDocScrutinizer, tracker runs for each new piece of media17:22
DocScrutinizeryep17:22
lcukso take a picture with camera etc17:22
lcukor movie17:22
TheBootroo_some1 tried documents in N9 ? read only or editiing too ?17:22
lcuknot an issue as the data is required17:22
DocScrutinizeranyway, I think a sanity-checker daemon should come in handy17:22
lcukmarginally frustrating17:23
t8N9 is going to rule17:23
lcukDocScrutinizer, "place device on forehead"17:23
lcuknew capacitive screen can do brainscanning?17:23
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DocScrutinizerinstall $nasty-app -> 10min later sanity-checker hollers about something ramped up power demand of device to an insane state17:23
destinal-homet8: I just wish there was a version with a hard keyboard17:23
TheBootroo_lcuk: i know my connection is poor : at work proxy blocks too large files, at home (study residence) french ley 'HADOPI' has stopped connection, and in public rates are not stable17:24
berndhslcuk: NFC will work with the chip in your brain17:24
lcukhmm reasonable berndhs17:24
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ShadowJKis nfc more or less buggy than bluetooth17:25
DocScrutinizerlcuk: something like a daemonized join of htop and powertop17:25
DocScrutinizerlcuk: and cpu load monitor17:25
DocScrutinizerwell, I guess that's already included in htop :-P17:26
lcukat some point running all those monitoring things takes up more battery power than the apps they are watching for17:26
DocScrutinizerlol17:26
lcukso you want it in a healthcheck mode17:26
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lcukI discussed these sorts of things with greg17:27
TermanaDocScrutinizer, I need a sanity-checker as well. Too bad mine would be stuck on "Insane"17:27
ShadowJKthat's true of batterygraph and battery-eye in a way :)17:27
lcukDocScrutinizer, Maemo has HealthCheck app17:27
lcukwhich should generate a report based on those things17:27
DocScrutinizeryou could enable it for check on each installation of a pkg17:27
lcukbut not be running all of them all the time17:27
lcukDocScrutinizer, discuss such things in the -qa channel17:27
ShadowJKYou know, my own bq27200 script at 5s poll interval approximately halves standby life :)17:27
lcukwe are aiming to have a performance build of the community stuff17:27
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: yay17:28
lcukwhich when combined iwth the qa-tools stuff will actually allow reproducable reports to be made potentially per package as you said17:28
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: tough your script surely could use some optimization regarding that17:28
ShadowJKIt's all about the wakeups :)17:28
DocScrutinizeryeah, but also about minimizing CPU load17:29
DocScrutinizerand I2C access17:29
ShadowJKdidn't make much of a difference to power use by cutting cpu use to a tenth of current17:29
DocScrutinizero.O17:29
ShadowJKbiggest impact is the reduction of time spent in "suspend to ram" :)17:30
DocScrutinizertry reading bq27200 in batch mode, rather than reg by reg17:30
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ShadowJKI had it reading one single register, percentage capacity one :P17:31
DocScrutinizerI2C for sure isn't for free17:31
ShadowJKiirc that's 8 bit register :)17:31
DocScrutinizerok, fair enough17:31
DocScrutinizerI usually see current ramp up from ~5mA for bq27200.sh 60 to ~25mA for interval 517:33
TheBootroo_possibility of a MTF open fork ?17:33
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mikhasTheBootroo_, it is open?17:35
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ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, also at interval 60, the 5 is for a period before bq27200.sh woke up to take reading. Then it sleeps when the hw is offering a reading with the power use of bq27200 included17:36
mikhasTheBootroo_, meego.gitorious.org/meegotouch17:36
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ShadowJKso you dont actually see it17:36
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TheBootroo_mikhas: yes i thought too but  one said me it has been deprecated because nokia closed it ?17:37
TheBootroo_i'm lost17:38
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berndhsthere appear to be factions within Nokia, some may not have closed it :)17:38
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mikhasTheBootroo_, it is not recommended for application developers, in MeeGo.17:40
mikhasMTF was never closed (yes, there are closed bits *on top*)17:40
TheBootroo_mikhas: but why if it not closed ?17:40
JaffaTheBootroo_: Because it is viewed as not the best way to develop MeeGo apps17:41
mikhasbecause C++ is too hard for fart app developers17:41
berndhsbut you can start a fork of MTF and the dependent components17:41
TheBootroo_fuck to them17:41
TheBootroo_i am true developer and NEED a true C++ api17:41
mikhasJaffa said the same more polite, of course.17:41
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TheBootroo_mikhas: why more polite ? "fart" is shocking i found... /D17:42
mikhasActually, QGraphicsView and its implications when you try to build a toolkit on top of that are really not nice.17:42
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mikhasThere's lot of WTF's in MTF, but well, it's also rather stable and fast now ...17:43
TheBootroo_and beautiful, easy skinnable and sweet set of widgets17:43
mikhasTheBootroo_, we need to cater to web developers if we ever want to create a MeeGo Ecosystem.17:43
mikhas(that's the manager's version ;-)17:44
lcukmikhas, c++ is not the issue17:44
lcukit is the IDE -> device path that is long17:44
thiagoMTF is not part of the official API17:44
lcukyou can open qt creator and make a fart app17:44
thiagoit's there, you can use it now17:44
berndhsto get a decent ecosystem you need predictability, and devices17:44
mikhaslcuk, I use MTF on my desktop17:44
lcukin 5 minutes17:44
mikhasin 3 minutes17:44
lcukbut getting it then onto various target devices is troublesome17:44
thiagodon't blame us if your app stops working when we remove it or change incompatibly17:44
lcukmikhas, if we are being picky, I can open *visual basic* on my windows machine and have a maemo app in seconds ;)17:45
mikhasI compile C++ and can make install directly onto the device, too.17:45
TheBootroo_thiago: QML is not stabilized neither17:45
* alterego wonders what might be lacking from Harmattan that will get stick from users.17:45
thiagoTheBootroo_: QML as a language and basics is stable enough17:45
thiagothe components are missing and that's not established17:45
alteregoI guess at least it has MMS17:45
lcukmikhas, take that same app and get it onto all your friends devices too17:45
thiagobut it's enough for a fart app and many things way more complex17:46
TheBootroo_alterego: yes it has them17:46
fiferboyalterego: Desktop widgets17:46
mikhaslcuk, yes, I'll use HTML5 for that17:46
alteregoWell, I know it has it, I'm just wondering about stuff it doesn't have that'll annoy people :)17:46
alteregofiferboy: wip ;)17:46
mikhasthen I get it onto my friend's IPhone, too17:46
lcukmikhas, toolkit not important, delivery mechanism is!17:46
fiferboyalterego: Oh?17:46
alteregoI want pannable desktop widgets on the lock screen :)17:47
fiferboyAh, lock screen.  Hadn't considered that17:47
fiferboyApparently you can also have simple widgets in the events view17:47
alteregoI still need to download the sdk and check out possibilities, there are a few options :)17:47
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alteregoWhat about contact groups and per contact/group ring tones?17:48
fiferboyalterego: I was contemplating a plugin to give a fourth view (in addition to event, app, running) for a simple widget view17:48
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alteregoMultiple profile support rather than the two we have.17:48
fiferboyAnd I have heard anything about the device profiles17:48
alteregofiferboy: I was also thinking the same.17:48
fiferboyI haven't dug far enough into the SDK to see if it is possible17:49
alteregoMaybe both would be good :)17:49
fiferboyContact shortcuts would seem to be a big thing that is missing17:49
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alteregoYeah,17:49
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alteregoBut you do have favourite contacts right at the top of the contacts view.17:50
fiferboyI guess a well written contact application would take care of that mostly, though17:50
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mikhaslcuk, so you agree with me that we need to use HTML5?17:52
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mikhasbest delivery mechanism17:52
lcukwhy only html5?17:52
lcukand no - I don't mind which is used17:53
lcukas long as idea->prototype->product cycle works17:53
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lcukthat is what counts17:53
lcukfor fiferboy to get his app into the hands of all the birdwatchers of the world17:53
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lcukand for khertan to energise python devlopers17:54
lcukand jaffa to give everyone attitude17:54
lcuketc17:54
alteregoIs any of the Harmattan UI in qml?17:54
alteregoI suppose I'll know in a few minutes anyway ^_^17:54
* alterego thinks not.17:55
fiferboyalterego: I have heard that a few of the applications are QML17:55
fiferboyBut the majority is MTF17:55
fiferboylcuk: MeeGo bird watchers will have their day!17:55
lcukgood stuff fiferboy17:55
lcukfiferboy, with the amazing cameras on Nokia devices building up a great media catalogue is good17:56
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fiferboyHmm, maybe a good tagline: "MeeGo Bird Watching"17:56
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lardmanandre__: will it be possible to add bugs against 3rd party apps (e.g. like the Extras components in the Maemo bugtracker)?17:56
lcukfiferboy, having a meego slate to manage a set of remote cameras17:56
fiferboylcuk: Unless the camera is the 35mm equivalent of 300mm you are going to need to be a _very_ good bird photographer :)17:57
andre__lardman, with regard to MeeGo I assume?17:57
fiferboylcuk: Ah, now that is a good idea17:57
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andre__lardman, join the fun in https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=12589  :)17:57
MeeGoBotBug 12589 nor, Undecided, ---, dawn.m.foster, NEW, Allow addition of 3rd party products into bugs.meego.com17:57
lardmanandre__: yes Meego and more specifically Harmattan17:57
lcukfiferboy, collection of machines17:57
lcukworking together :)17:57
fiferboylcuk: Did you just create SkyNet?17:57
andre__lardman: Harmattan? can you elaborate?17:58
lcukdid you not see my recent tweets?17:58
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lcukI was musing about http://my.data last night17:58
lcukhttp://twitter.com/lcuk17:58
lardmanandre__: just saw your post to the -dev lists about where Harmattan bugs should be filed17:58
lcukfiferboy, I have multiple devices17:58
fiferboylcuk: Ah, your cloud syncing tweets?17:58
lcukI want my data to be synced across all of them17:58
andre__lardman, ah. Not in any MeeGo or Maemo Bugzilla. ;-)17:58
lcukwhen I draw a sketch on one17:58
lcukit is available on all17:58
lcukyes17:59
lcuk:)17:59
fiferboylcuk: My application syncs across multipe devices :P17:59
lcukoooh17:59
lardmanandre__: will the nokia tracker allow 3rd party apps?17:59
lardmanbugtracker that is17:59
lcukfiferboy, problem with http://my.data is that ICANN haven't got it in place yet17:59
lcukso I asked17:59
andre__lardman, I don't know anything about nokia's bugtracker. and I guess "no".17:59
fiferboyAt least, devices where the Qt mysql plugin is available :(17:59
andre__lardman, it's very developer oriented, not for endusers reporting something17:59
lcukfiferboy, I was told to get similar domain would cost debian project 6 figures18:00
TheBootroo_fiferboy: alterego: only some 3rd party apps are un QML (accuweater, vimeo..), nokia apps and the full OS is MTF18:00
lcukso .data would be similar18:00
lardmanandre__: ok fair enough, I guess the meego.com bugtracker would be the place then assuming it's eventually allowed18:00
andre__lardman, if you see the discussion in the bug report I linked it looks like it's rather going to be a separate installation18:00
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fiferboyTheBootroo_: Ah, I wasn't sure if it was third-party that were refered to where I read it18:00
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lardmanin the interim is it possible to add a new version to maemo.org's bugtracker?18:00
ali1234lcuk: gTLDs? yeah, there isa flat fee to apply, it's $184,000, and then it's $26,000/ year to renew *if* your application is successful. at least that's what i read.18:00
lcukyeah ali123418:01
lardmanto catch bugs seen in the dev devices?18:01
lcukbut I just want my.data ;)18:01
lardmanin 3rd party apps18:01
lcukthe specifics are just frosting18:01
* lcuk waves at lardman 18:01
lardmanhi lcuk18:01
* TheBootroo_ finds MeeGo Touch Framework in Harmattan actually ROXX18:02
* lardman goes to pack an IR camera18:02
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fiferboyIs there a package list for Marmattan available?18:02
TheBootroo_look there for MTF screenshots : http://www.developer.nokia.com/swipe/ux/pages/building_blocks.html18:02
fiferboySomewhere easy to access?18:02
TheBootroo_fiferboy: yes18:03
lcuki saw a list fiferboy18:03
pabs3http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/unstable/beta/Fremantle_Update7_vs_Harmattan_Beta_content_comparison.html18:03
TheBootroo_fiferboy: in developer.nokia.com specs18:03
fiferboypabs3: Thanks!18:03
pabs3or http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan-beta/18:03
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andre__lardman, you only refer to 3rd party stuff? hmm. good question.18:04
fiferboyGah, no libqt4-sql-mysql :(18:04
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andre__lardman: if apps existed for maemo already and now run on meego and have their canonical bugtracker home in bugs.maemo.org this might make sense18:04
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alteregoI'm getting a full time contract with them to do QML/Qt work for MeeGo (and possibly other stuff she couldn't tell me over the phone)18:08
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Stskeepsalterego: that calls for beer!18:11
alteregoShit18:12
alteregoThat wasn't bemeant for public :P18:12
Stskeepsbeer still ;)18:12
* Stskeeps plays with agile browser18:12
alterego:)18:12
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Termanaalterego, We'll pretend we didn't see it.18:13
TermanaRIGHT CHANNEL?18:13
alteregoI'm downloading Harmattan SDK, and about to do some chores ;)18:13
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JaffaTermana: Right.18:15
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alteregoOh no! "It is an X11 server that18:17
alteregoprovides a device screen for the Maemo application windows"18:17
alterego(in harmattan release notes ;)18:17
Stskeepsheh18:17
Stskeepsxephyr ;p18:18
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TSCHAKeeewhen will they start shipping out the N950s?! :D18:19
TSCHAKeeehow will we know if we got one? ;)18:19
TSCHAKeeeok ok, i'll stop trolling now18:19
TSCHAKeee;)18:19
TSCHAKeeehey guys18:19
alteregoI hope we find out by early next week :)18:20
TSCHAKeeeI really want to bitch slap the people who are saying "Harmattan is an outdated abandoned OS"18:21
StskeepsTSCHAKeee: dpkg -l18:21
alteregoYeah, seems a bit silly.18:21
ali1234yeah they should at least wait and try it before saying that :)18:21
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berndhsyeah just that Nokia says they'll abandon it doesn't mean they will :)18:22
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ali1234although i'm pretty sure it is a fact that MTF is outdated and abandoned18:22
monoidwho has a n950?18:22
TSCHAKeeethiago and a few of the senior guys at Qt18:23
TSCHAKeeesome other nokia engineers who walk around in here18:23
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* alterego points to your mom18:23
monoidi would like one.18:24
alteregoJoin the queue18:25
alterego:P18:25
alteregoEveryone wants new shiny18:25
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pebcakwill there be n950 for debian devs?18:26
lcukalterego, not always18:26
pebcak:D18:26
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alteregopebno :P18:26
alteregoWhat has debian got to do with MeeGo?18:26
alteregoAnd I don't think nokia have that many to give away ..18:26
monoidsomebody should make a wallet with bluetooth keyboard, then i might buy N918:27
juliankalterego: While MeeGo has nothing to do with Debian, Harmattan is Debian-based.18:27
pebcakalterego so the n9 doesn't use meego :D18:27
* alterego has a nice bluetooth keyboard ..18:27
pebcakjuliank indeed18:27
alteregopebcak: The N9 is MeeGo18:27
pebcakalterego no it#s debian based18:27
alteregoIt's MeeGo damnbit!18:27
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pebcakmeego meego is fedora based18:28
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ali1234no18:28
ali1234meego isn't anything based damnit18:28
X-Fadejuliank: It uses debs, it is not debian based.18:28
Termanameego meego18:28
Termanaharmattan meego18:28
pebcakthat would explain why fedora packages work so well18:28
ali1234i thought we established this ages ago?18:28
pabs3ali1234: meego is linux based18:28
TermanaTermana's ice cream truck meego18:28
alteregoMeeGo is a set of APIs and software stack specifications, and qt testing packages.18:28
ali1234linux is not a distro18:28
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pabs3ali1234: I didn't claim it was. meego is linux based, just like Debian/Fedora are linux based18:29
pebcakX-Fade what else does it use of debian?18:29
alteregos/qt/qa/18:29
ali1234pabs3: except that debian can run on *bsd too18:29
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pebcakkfreebsd18:29
pabs3true18:29
pebcakwoo!18:29
pebcak:D18:29
X-FadeWe could also discuss this and wast a lot of time, while at the same time competitors take over the market. We really need to pick our battles wiser.18:29
alteregopebcak: you tell us? Tall GNU/Linux installs use pretty much the same software ..18:30
alteregos/Tall/All18:30
ali1234true enough18:30
monoidi wonder if there is a name as funny as swipe18:30
TSCHAKeeeSWIPER, NO SWIPIN!18:30
TSCHAKeeeSWIPER NO SWIPIN!18:30
TSCHAKeeeSWIPER, NO SWIPIN!18:30
TSCHAKeeeOHHHH MAAAANNN!!!!18:31
TSCHAKeee:P18:31
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lcukhaha18:31
pebcakalterego there are some signifigant differences how some things are handled and you know that....18:31
juliankX-Fade: It uses dpkg, apt, debian source packages, the debian policy to a certain extent, so it's clearly Debian-based.18:31
lcukTSCHAKeee, I even heard you click your fingers18:31
pebcak^^18:31
TermanaTSCHAKeee, lol18:31
TSCHAKeeelcuk: rofl18:31
alteregopebcak: like what?18:31
TSCHAKeeegod damn i'm getting old.18:31
X-Fadejuliank: Packaging doesn't make something based on Debian.18:31
TSCHAKeee;)18:31
pebcakinit, packaging blablablabla18:31
alteregopebcak: it uses upstart, that isn't debian.18:32
X-Fadejuliank: Anyway, keep trolling and let Android win :)18:32
pebcakandroid wins anyway18:32
pebcakso you could jsut give up18:32
pebcak:p18:32
lardmanandre__: that was my thought18:32
pabs3alterego: upstart is available in Debian18:32
X-FadeAt least you can make an effort.18:32
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lardmanandre__: I'd assume that a fair few Fremantle apps will be ported across18:32
lardmancertainly that's my intention anyway18:32
alteregopabs3: so what? apt is available on fedora, you've just lost me ,..18:32
juliankX-Fade: It's been a Debian derivative and it still is one.18:33
pebcakhow many debian armel packages are used in harmattan?18:33
* alterego sighs18:33
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alteregoWho cares what it derives from anyway?18:33
alteregoIt's the API compatibility that is important.18:33
alteregoIt is the closets thing that exists, that is actually a commerical, _real_ product with a MeeGo brand name.18:34
juliankalterego: APT is not available on Fedora. There maybe is apt-rpm, which is based on the heavily outdated 0.5 releases and unmaintained and probably a large security hole18:34
alteregoSo stop bitching about the fact it uses  debian packaging when it doesn't matter.18:34
pebcakjuliank untrue, there is apt4rpm18:34
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* lardman heads home, catch you all tomorrow18:34
juliankpebcak: apt4rpm is a tool to create repositories for apt-rpm18:34
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* Jaffa points at http://lwn.net/Articles/448639/ cos he's not going to repeat his arguments again ;-)18:34
* alterego sighs18:34
pebcakjuliank I know it from... connective and suse when suse was still suse18:34
pebcakmaybe it was different then18:35
pebcak:D18:35
pebcak°connectiva18:35
alteregoI'm gonna do the washing up now ...18:35
pebcak:D18:35
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pebcakstill, I don't see why it wouldn't be useful to give some devdevices to debian18:35
pebcak*shrug*18:35
juliankpebcak: Create an app to run Debian inside Meego and you may get one18:36
pabs3pebcak: I applied, would definitely be surprised if I got one though18:36
pebcakjuliank I don't get that logic, sorry18:36
pabs3pebcak: they were pretty clear about who the devices were for18:36
juliankpebcak: The devices are for those willing to develop apps, so if you write an app for running Debian inside MeeGo, you fulfill the requirements18:37
ali1234i think they want people who will write apps that more than about 10 people actually would want to use18:38
ali1234which rules me out18:38
pebcakI'm only interested in an epub reader18:38
pebcakfor tablet ux18:38
pebcak:D18:38
ali1234and also 99% of the maemo developer base too18:38
monoidqt apps18:38
ali1234toolkit is irrelevant really18:39
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ali1234although no doubt they prefer you use Qt18:39
monoidno it is not18:39
Jaffaali1234: Download stats on http://maemo.org/downloads/ undermine your trolling18:39
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ali123485 million downloads?18:40
ali1234does that include every time ham touches the repository list?18:40
juliankIf I get one, I write a todo list application and some other stuff18:41
pebcakhehe18:41
ali1234Jaffa: i would like to see the top five or ten most downloaded apps, if that is available somewhere18:41
ali1234"popular" doesn't seem to be that18:41
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pebcakif I don't get one I write my ebookreader anyway, because I have a tablet running meego and it#s the only application I really miss18:42
pebcak;P18:42
ali1234also does that count extras-testing and extras-devel?18:42
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ivan__hi, any OBS experts around? I am setting up a private OBS instance for my company and need a little help with bootstrapping.18:42
Stskeepsivan__: define bootstrapping :)18:43
lcuktake the boots and a lace end in one hand18:43
pebcakhehe18:43
ivan__"bootstrapping" is what documentation calls the bit when you have a working OBS, but can't build anything MeeGo because frash install is openSuse-centric.18:43
X-Fadeivan__: What are you using? The appliance or are you installing it?18:43
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ivan__I have a working installation, but want to be able to build MeeGo packages. This doc shows the process for "bootstrapping" (http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Build_Service_private_instance_boot_strapping) but I've had no luck so far18:45
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ali1234Jaffa: to put your statistics in context, my personal maemo 5 repo which is not advertised anywhere or used by anyone but me has had over 10000 hits18:46
X-Fadeali1234: But these are completed downloads.18:47
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ivan__Essnetially, I want to run obs_mirror_project to copy the projects from build.pub.meego.com ( i have the login there). However, according to docs, this script has to be modified for MeeGo. I've had a quick look and can't find the modified version. I can try modding myself but there were a few unclear bits18:47
ali1234these are completed downloads too18:47
Jaffaali1234: You've verified the IPs, I assume?18:47
lcukali1234, what is the address of your repo?18:47
ali1234http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/maemo/fremantle/18:48
lcukand if not advertissed then somebody must have been using it18:48
X-Fadeivan__: What do you want to do? Import a MeeGo release?18:48
ali123499.999% of the hits are on Packages.gz18:48
ivan__X-Fade: yes18:48
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ali1234because ham polls it about 10 times for every single operation18:48
X-Fadeali1234: That is just the daily update. That is not a download.18:48
lcukali1234, google says you have all sorts of random hits18:48
ali1234well, probably18:48
X-Fadeivan__: A simpeler way is to just download a repository and import it.18:49
ali1234my website is set up in a way that makes it easy to explore and index18:49
ivan__X-Fade: Sounds great, are ther any instructions how to do this right?18:49
ali1234X-Fade: so every single one of those 85M is a completed download of a .deb file?18:49
lcuki would imagine it would be more difficult to create a website which wasnt18:49
X-Fadeali1234: yes18:49
ali1234ok, that's all i wanted to know, thanks :)18:49
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lcukX-Fade, still using Nokia 770 as server?18:50
X-Fadelcuk: We upgraded to some N800s we had collecting dust.18:51
lcuk:D18:51
lcukno wonder download speed increased!18:51
arfollanyone know how to monitor GMA500/600 GPU usage?18:51
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lcukhttp://www.onedotzero.com/submissions/18:52
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ivan__X-Fade: Is the process of downloading a repo and importing documented anywhere?18:53
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monoidnice video with the swipe stuff.  how is jitteryness of the animations18:54
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Stskeepsivan__: you can draw inspiration from http://wiki.meego.com/User:Stskeeps/10_easy_steps_to_a_local_OBS#Step_6:_Importing_a_MeeGo_release18:55
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lcukmonoid, from videos it looks nice18:55
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lcukthe effects are in sync with finger motions and it seems certainly to be nice18:55
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* lcuk likes the simplicity18:55
monoidlcuk: i have only seen the rendered videos ahh i see  some18:55
X-Fadeivan__: What ^^ said.18:56
monoidi like the colors18:56
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monoidhmm no the animations are jittery18:56
monoideverybody is just copying liqbase18:57
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monoidlol18:57
lcuklol we know that18:57
Stskeepsivan__: basically: you rsync a release down, make a obs project, dump in the rpms, set a prjconf and make the obs aware of the rpms18:57
RST38hremoo18:57
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monoidhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkpoNlsY_40  Nokia N9 MeeGo Smartphone - detailed hands on and walkthrough18:58
ivan__Stskeeps: Thanks!18:58
monoidi love finish accents18:59
lcukI prefer Finnish ones19:01
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loft306ha19:02
monoidgood job to team nokia / qt / meego!19:02
fiferboylcuk: You mean the accent of my son Finn?19:02
fiferboyHe has a pretty cool accent19:03
lcuklol fiferboy you named your son Finn?19:03
lcukTracy wants to call ours Finnlay too19:03
fiferboylcuk: He is Finnian19:04
lcukno fiferboy, he is awesome.19:04
* juliank demands that everyone is called the same as himself19:04
fiferboyHis favourite book right now is "The Knight's Handbook" which is teaching him how to be a knight19:05
lcuk:D19:05
lcukfiferboy, Jake has started to be a wizard19:05
lcukhe collects a magic wand everytime we visit the country park19:05
fiferboylcuk: We are raising a RPG team19:05
lcukhaha19:06
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monoidnokia: make a E7 with 800x480 and omap3 - use same case, save money19:09
pebcakno symbian plz19:10
lcukmonoid, did you know, screen resolution in some video modes is changable19:10
lcuk640*360 is good enough for the os it is using19:10
lcukI know, I used to run liqbase at pretty much that resolution by default on my n810 ;)19:11
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thiago_home854x48019:14
thiago_homenot 800x48019:14
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lcukthiago_home,19:14
lcukmy ideapad runs at 1024*600 internally19:14
lcukbut when I plug it into the vga out, it changes to 1920*108019:14
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lcukdoes the n9 video out do similar?19:15
thiago_homeno clue19:15
lcukcan you run apps on big screen19:15
* thiago_home doesn't have an n919:15
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lcukwell you have some sort of prototype19:15
lcukthat is familiarly similar19:15
thiago_homeI have an N950 proto and I have never plugged it to anything but the USB cable19:15
lcukahh ok19:15
Jaffalcuk: Well, it's composite video so the "resolution" doesn't quite work like that19:15
lcukJaffa, ok19:16
lcukmy ideapad is actually frustrating because of it19:16
lcukbecause it does not offer a mirror mode19:16
Jaffalcuk: It's an analogue signal with a certain amount of bandwidth (but I forget the details)19:16
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monoiddo these OLED displays deteriorate after a few years?19:16
thiago_homethe problem isn't ideapad19:16
lcukbug 1961619:16
MeeGoBotBug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19616 nor, Low, ---, jerry.yu, NEW, [ideapad] Video Out using VGA cable does not support mirroring19:16
thiago_homethe meego netbook is configured to go into "large screen mode" if it detects an external display19:17
lcukthiago_home, then my bug is valid!19:17
thiago_homeyes19:17
thiago_homebut only if this behaviour wasn't intended19:17
thiago_homeI think it is19:17
lcukit is annoying19:17
lcukmy other laptops cycle round19:17
lcukonscreen/vga-out/mirror19:17
lcukthe ideapad merely does onscreen/vga-out19:18
lcukand it means you cannot give a presentation and tap screen etc and inteact19:18
lcukinteract19:18
lcukthe n90019:18
lcuki can do that (if hardware works)19:18
lcukplug in the video cable, and what is on the large monitor is what is on the small screen19:19
lcukI was going to give a presentation this weekend from my ideapad19:19
lcuks/this/last/19:19
ali1234lcuk: funily enough i had the opposite problem on windows with the ideapad19:19
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ali1234probably because it's windows home super basic19:20
lcuki don't know19:20
ali1234but it won't allow you to have indepentent outputs19:20
lcukmy ideapad is a meego machine19:20
lcukit came with meego installed *grin*19:20
monoidthe maps look very nice19:20
ali1234lol, no it didn't19:20
lcukali1234, yes it did19:20
lcukfrom the moment I powered it up, I saw meego on the screen19:21
ali1234so who did you get to install meego for you?19:21
lcukjust because I had some usb key inside it when I switched it on19:21
lcukI have never seen another OS on my ideapad19:21
lcukhence, it is 100% a meego machine :P19:21
ali1234twisted logic is twisted19:21
* lcuk inserts key into car to start it 19:21
ali1234you watched the installer do it's stuff same as i did19:21
* lcuk inserted key into ideapad to start it19:22
lcukyeah but it wasn't a windows installer19:22
lcukor debian19:22
lcukor ubuntu19:22
ali1234actually i watched it twice because i hit a bug the first time19:22
lcukit was meego.19:22
ali1234so you had to install the usb key?19:23
monoidnice ability to 'bookmark' a webpage to your apps19:23
ali1234or was that plugged in too when you got it?19:23
lcukali1234, not sure, I inserted the key when I unpacked it all19:23
lcukthere are photos :P19:23
ali1234so you installed the usb key into the usb port19:23
lcukinserted the key to start it yeah19:24
lcukno different than having to connect the umbilical cord from a new ipod19:24
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ali1234lol19:25
markattoman, harmattan is getting some pretty killer reviews19:25
monoidlink markatto ?19:25
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markattomonoid: check out engadget19:26
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monoidwatching the demos from singapore atm19:26
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markattomonoid: http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/22/editorial-dear-nokia-you-cannot-be-serious/19:26
ivan__Stskeeps: The OBS import instructions work for 1.1, but 1.2 repo layout seems quite different. Is there a 1.2 import script by any chance?19:27
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monoidthank you markatto !  i ask the same!19:28
monoidelop is a very bad man19:28
lcukwhy? If people in America want and will buy Nokia WP devices, why should they be prevented from doing so?19:28
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lcukand if folks want to have business class Symbian devices in Europe or wherever why shouldn't they?19:29
lcukand if people want to drool over n9 etc and buy them, why shouldn't they?19:29
monoidto whom are you asking this?19:30
markattolcuk: we *don't* want WP7 or Symbian devices ;)19:30
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lcukYOU don't19:30
lcukbuy plenty of people do19:30
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lcukmy missus still wants a real keypad19:30
markattoiirc wp7 is selling pretty badly19:30
lcukI am sure Microsoft can get it right19:30
lcukjust like early maemo devices sold badly19:31
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markattosymbian is pretty much non-existant in the USA, but I can't speak for the rest of the world19:31
ali1234actually few people go out of their way to buy a WP719:31
* ShadowJK 'd want a pocket-portable device capable of streaming radio (let's broadly say "any" format) over headphone, fmtx or nluetooth a2dp for a minimum of 8 hours on battery power19:31
ali1234not like they do with iphone and android19:31
markattoI don't know a single person with a WP7 phone19:31
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ShadowJKany os would be fine for that single-purpose device19:31
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lcukmarkatto, considering windows phone is so badly slated19:32
lcukmany people are emulating the metro ui19:32
wmarone_markatto: I saw someone last week with one!19:32
wmarone_... and that's all19:32
lcuki was playing with one the other night19:32
lcukvery pretty and slick19:32
wmarone_of course, I'm also the only person outside of meego meetups that I know with an N900 :)19:32
ali1234is metro what they call that awful UI where nothing fits on the screen properly?19:32
lcuki also played with an n8 emulating metro19:32
lcukali1234, look at early liqbase19:32
ali1234early liqbase?19:32
lcukEVERYBODY said "why don't your captions fit on the buttons"19:33
lcuk;)19:33
wmarone_lcuk: software patent!19:33
wmarone_go troll!19:33
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wmarone_;>19:33
TSCHAKeeei don't honestly see the appeal of WP7 at all19:33
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lcukwmarone_, i found out yesterday europe does not have software patents19:33
TSCHAKeeei spent a lot of time with it19:33
wmarone_lcuk: you can still file in the US!19:33
TSCHAKeeeit's got a slick outer shell, but there's nothing underneath.19:33
monoidhow this TSCHAKeee - for job?19:33
TSCHAKeeenothing.19:33
lcukyeah perhaps next time i go over19:33
lcukbut I would prefer to just make all my software work19:33
TSCHAKeeemonoid: software development.19:33
lcukthan spend time faffing with patents19:34
wmarone_lcuk: I am being facetious, of course ;p19:34
lcukunless there is a c->patent converter19:34
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TSCHAKeeewhat gets me though, and i am really trying to give Elop the benefit of the doubt here, why did he jettison the platform, when we wound up getting such an awesome device out of the N9?19:35
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wmarone_I think it can be summed up with two words: "because Microsoft"19:35
ali1234TSCHAKeee: because he's a microsoft plant19:35
lcukTSCHAKeee, look at it another way19:35
TSCHAKeeethe whole device screams "balanced"19:35
TSCHAKeeeI know, my paranoid side is screaming microsoft plant19:35
lcukALL teams have gone into overdrive and we are seeing some of the best work to come out of Nokia for generations! :P19:35
monoidit looks great.  now i want a wallet for it with a keyboard19:35
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TSCHAKeeefor me, the N900 was the device i spent 20 years waiting for.19:36
TSCHAKeeeand they topped that spectacularly19:36
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lcukthe n9 complement its TSCHAKeee19:36
lcukit does not replace it19:36
lcukit is a pretty sibling19:37
TSCHAKeee*nod* I see the N950 is the complement here, too bad it will not be publically released.19:37
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GeneralAntilleslcuk, yes it replaces it.19:37
lcukGeneralAntilles, no, it does not.19:37
GeneralAntillesConsidering that they don't manufacture N900s anymore19:37
GeneralAntillesYes, it replaces it.19:37
lcukit misses out on one important thing for me: stylus input.19:37
TSCHAKeeemeh19:37
TSCHAKeeei could care less19:37
GeneralAntilleslcuk, that's irrelevant to whether or not it replaces it.19:37
TSCHAKeeereally19:37
lcukGeneralAntilles, I can have both on my desk19:38
monoidnice youtubes of the n95019:38
TSCHAKeeei've used stylus PDAs since BEFORE the fucking Newton came out19:38
berndhsTSCHAKeee: so you care some :)19:38
monoidi want one :(19:38
GeneralAntilleslcuk, good for you. That's irrelevant to everybody else.19:38
TSCHAKeeeand after 20 some odd years of trying to use a flat LCD screen like a wirebound notebook19:38
TSCHAKeeei came to one inescapable conclusion19:38
monoidhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6U8jH_apD2k  hands-on N950 (czech)19:38
TSCHAKeeethat was fucking retarded.19:38
lcukGeneralAntilles, getting a C5 too19:38
lcukwhich has stlyus input and runs symbian19:38
DawnFosterahem. Language people19:39
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TSCHAKeeesigh.19:39
DawnFosterI really don't have a profanity filter, just weird timing ;)19:39
TSCHAKeeei have to deal with political correctness everywhere in this crazy country19:39
Termanahey DawnFoster19:39
lcukDawnFoster, who do I prod about bug 1961619:39
MeeGoBotBug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19616 nor, Low, ---, jerry.yu, NEW, [ideapad] Video Out using VGA cable does not support mirroring19:39
TSCHAKeeeI have to deal with it in HERE TOO?!19:39
monoidcouldn't they make a few thousand n950s and sell them to people who beg and promise not to cause trouble?19:39
TSCHAKeeei've had enough.19:39
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TSCHAKeeefree speech is dead, and we all killed it.19:40
TSCHAKeeelater.19:40
TermanaDon't let the door hit you on the way out.19:41
DawnFosterlcuk - give it a couple of days, and if you don't get a response ping me next week19:41
lcukok will do, thanks19:41
ali1234lcuk: c5-03?19:41
lcukali1234, yeah, what do you know about it19:41
ali1234not much. i didn't realise anyone was still making phones with resistive screens19:41
ali1234well, except those fake iphone guys19:42
lcuki need it for sketching19:42
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lcukand it gives me some incentive to port liqbase sketches to qt19:42
monoidis so pretty :(  n95019:42
monoidscreen looks a bit dark in the video i linked19:43
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ali1234personally i want a C7 with meego on it19:43
nialalo19:43
ali1234don't care about N919:43
monoidc7 with 800x480 ok19:44
monoidonly 250 n950s... :(19:44
Stskeepsivan__: it's fairly similar, that's why i said inspiration :)19:45
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monoidman, the zeiss autofocus lens ++19:47
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lcukmonoid, can youplease confirm19:47
monoidwide angle glory hallelujah19:47
monoidsorry what now19:47
lcukyou do have both hands on the keyboard whilst typing all this don't you?19:47
monoidlol19:47
monoidi don't want a candy bar phone :( i want a keyboard like n90019:48
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pebcakonly 250 n950 for the meego community right?19:53
pebcaknot overall?19:53
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monoid:( :(19:53
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monoid#meego: Total of 491 nicks19:53
bossmonoid: Error: "meego:" is not a valid command.19:53
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monoidok boss19:53
CosmoHill#kitten19:54
CosmoHill#kitten:19:54
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bossCosmoHill: Error: "kitten" is not a valid command.19:54
bossCosmoHill: Error: "kitten:" is not a valid command.19:54
CosmoHillyou're slow19:54
monoidthiago_home: how many euros do i need to pay you to 'lose' your n950?19:55
monoid:)_19:55
nialahello CosmoHill19:55
CosmoHillfor 100 € I'll mug him19:55
CosmoHillsalut niala19:55
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thiago_homemonoid: sorry, no chance. I'll give it back on Friday.19:57
monoidi have unreleased game client  for sdl19:57
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shlevyDoes MeeGo have the Mono framework? I'm a developer for a C# app that we currently run on Ubuntu but want to port to meego20:07
monoiduse qt20:07
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shlevymonoid: Does that mean MeeGo doesn't have Mono?20:09
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wmarone_mono is not part of meego, IIRC20:09
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monoidwow ssvb in finland20:11
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monoidhow is the video accelerated in n920:12
Venemoshlevy, I think Mono exists in the MeeGo repository, but it is not part of the default install20:12
shlevyVenemo: Is there an easy way for me to check for myself what version and such are available?20:12
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Venemoshlevy, I'm not that familiar with the MeeGo infrastructure, but: http://www.google.hu/search?q=mono+site%3Arepo.meego.com&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:unofficial&client=firefox-a20:16
Venemomaybe someone more knowledgeable will come along and enlighten us20:16
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hiemanshushlevy: http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/releases/1.2.0/repos/oss/ia32/packages/i586/20:24
hiemanshulook for mono20:24
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hiemanshumono-core-2.6.3-2.17.i586.rpm20:24
hiemanshuso yes there is mono20:25
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arjanshlevy: there is mono for some of the netbook apps; but anything but netbook and your app will look very out of place20:26
arjan(and it's not guaranteed that mono will remain there)20:26
shlevyarjan: Ok, thanks20:27
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lcuk*groan* at the pun I just posted on twitter20:30
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npmarjan : if mono goes doesn't that mean banshee goes too? (i won't miss it, but... it's part of the netbook ux)21:00
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npmhopefully Vala isn't going to get the axe ... that would be sad.21:01
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matr0npm: vala is just a dev-tool that translates code to c and then compiles21:02
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ali1234npm: i thought mono was never part of the official spec21:02
matr0mono is a whole framework21:02
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npmum, i know, since i've programmed in vala21:02
ali1234that is, it's only there because of banshee21:02
npmhowever, i was happy to see that it's in meego21:02
matr0(which i personally don't to be part of my OS)...21:02
npmmeans i don't have to port http://code.google.com/p/spekle/21:03
npmyes, mono is there because of banshee. i think porting amarok to meego makes more sense21:04
thiago_homeor something new21:04
* CosmoHill wonders if he should use JFS or XFS21:04
npmyeah or somethign new that has good functionality21:04
thiago_homelike tomahawk21:04
* npm googles21:05
* thiago_home has never used that though21:05
thiago_hometwo good friends of mine work on it21:05
npmthiago_home: http://tomahawk-player.org/ looks insteresting21:06
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npmwhat we really need is a C++ Qt-based "Core" for media player and QML example wrapper21:06
npmthat can be targetted to difft uxes etc21:07
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pebcakCosmoHill jfs21:08
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CosmoHillwhat I should do when I have time / not being lazy, great a 10GB partition on my hard drive and benchmark different file systems21:10
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npmthiago_home: stopped dead in trax by meego building tomahawk: "Phonon version 4.5.0 or higher is required, you have version 4.4.0"21:12
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npmhttp://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo-Lem to the rescue :-)21:12
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npm(now at least i have a choice of which system i want to make noncompliant by pulling in fedora packages)21:13
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* alterego wishes Nokia would publish the manual sdk instructions, I get bored looking through python installation apps :)21:15
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npmdoh, fedora 14's still at phonon 4.4, and fedora 15 RPM's are not a happy combo w/ meego21:17
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npmanybody built tomahawk for meego before i waste more time21:17
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hiemanshuyeah, I wish meego sdk worked on fedora 1521:18
* hiemanshu hates having to use the Ubuntu VM21:18
npmno i'm talking about fedora 32 bit rpms on meego.21:18
npmmakes compiling massive apps a lot easier21:18
hiemanshuah21:18
npm(cheating, but who cares)21:18
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npmalso good for working around problems: https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1687921:20
MeeGoBotBug 16879 nor, Low, ---, nick.bao, NEW, hunspell dumps core with default english dictionary, and is installed with no default dictionary21:20
CosmoHillbug 1234521:20
MeeGoBotBug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=12345 nor, Medium, ---, elias.luttinen, NEW, Requirement: Parameter errors reported to Publishers21:20
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Hei_Kuhello21:28
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CosmoHillhi Hei_Ku21:36
Hei_KuI'm looking for the maintainer or someone responsible of the libpurple package in MeeGo21:38
Hei_Kuthere's a patch we need for it in meego 1.221:38
* Stskeeps checks the last list21:39
StskeepsHei_Ku: closest you can get is anas nashif - best to just send a package update21:41
Hei_Kuok21:41
Stskeepsdoesn't have a maintainer noted, so21:41
Hei_KuStskeeps: thanks. I'll try anas21:42
Stskeepshe was the last one packaging, so21:42
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andre__dneary, I remember you pinged me earlier today22:00
dnearyandre__, Yes22:00
andre__dneary, I don't remember the question (if you asked it) but I remember that a related answer/comment could be lbt's proposal to link the package database grouping and the Bugzilla grouping22:00
dnearyIt was to find out how realistic mu idea of including a gitorious link for every module in MeeGo Bugzilla was22:01
andre__ah!22:01
dnearyI didn't ask the question22:01
dnearys/gitorious/source code22:01
andre__now if that information was stored in the package DB grouping as a mandatory field for every package that could fix it22:01
andre__(and if that linking was implemented of course)22:01
dnearyandre__, It's not quite that straightforward for something like the package manager22:02
andre__lbt proposed it at the EM BoF in SF22:02
dnearyAfter digging into it, it turns out that the error, and the error message, are passed up from PackageKit22:02
dnearyWhich sucks a bit22:02
dnearyWill ping hughsie to tell him the error message sucks22:02
andre__ah22:02
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Venemohey guys22:25
Venemohow can I acquire a Nokia N950?22:25
Stskeepsread quim's blog22:25
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anidelhere: http://t.co/ASlYRoN22:27
monoid250 is :/22:27
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Venemoso they manufactured only 250 units, and that's it?22:28
Stskeepsnah, 250 for meego developer device programme22:28
alteregoVenemo: no, just 250 given out to MeeGo community developers.22:28
Venemoah, I understand22:29
Venemowill it be available for purchase22:29
alteregoNo22:29
alteregoIt's a developer device only.22:29
Stskeepss/given/loaned/22:29
alteregoBut you can apply for it through meego.com (which I recommend you do)22:29
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Venemoso how do I acquire one if I don't get it through the developer device programme?22:29
alteregoOr you can apply for 'one through Nokia developer launch pad.22:29
alteregoVenemo: simple answer, you don't.22:30
alteregoMore complicated answer, earn it :P22:30
alteregoCop out commercial answer, develop apps for Ovi :P22:30
Venemowhat if I actually WANT to keep such a device?22:30
Stskeepsif this goes on, it'll end up being all lord of the flies22:30
alteregoVenemo: when the N9 is released, the 250 selected N950 owners get to choose to keep or trade, as I understand it.22:31
Venemoreally?22:31
alteregoThat is what Quim said yesterday.22:31
Venemothat is very nice, but the N950 is vastly superior than N9 (bigger screen, keyboard, etc)22:31
TronicNot vastly superior, no AMOLED etc.22:32
alteregoWell, they're pretty much the same, except you're kinda trading a keyboard for NFC22:32
alteregoPersonally I want the NFC22:32
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TronicStill quite clearly better overall, I'd say.22:32
alteregoI'll keep the N950, to be unique and buy an N922:32
Venemowhat the heck is NFC?22:32
Venemo~nfc22:32
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TronicI don't really get the point of NFC.22:32
alteregoNear Field Comms22:32
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alteregoIt's in all the phones now-a-days ;)22:32
TronicHow is it better than BT, especially if BT pairing is required before it can be used?22:32
Venemowhere is infobot when I need him?22:32
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alteregoTronic: BT has nothing to do with NFC22:33
MohammadAG<alterego> I'll keep the N950 || which part of loan didn't you get? :P22:33
RST38hdifferent animals, indeed22:33
alteregoThe headset demo in Singapore using BT and NFC was an example of what can be done using both.22:33
TronicSome site said that BT pairing is required before the first use of NFC but maybe they had wrong information.22:33
alteregoMohammadAG: which part of "You can keep it or trade it with N9" didn't you get?22:33
Venemoalterego, so, you can keep the N950 even though it's a loaner, or you can buy it at the end, or what?22:33
alteregoVenemo: No, when the N9 is release, you have a choice of keeping the N950, or trading it in for an N9.22:34
alteregoI don't know how I can say that in a clearer way ..22:34
MohammadAGalterego, oh really? damn /me walks away :P22:34
Venemoalterego, so this is not a loan after all22:34
alteregoWell, it's a tentative loan.22:34
TronicWhere are USB and headphone connectors located on N950?22:34
alteregoTronic: on the sides22:34
alteregoSimilar to N900 from what I can tell.22:35
TronicIt appears that both are on top end of the phone on N9, which sucks if you want to talk while charging.22:35
Venemoall the loaner N900s had to be returned afaik22:35
GeneralAntillesGotta find an NFC reader I can use for the door locks.22:35
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Tronicalterego: N900 has the same problem, it'd be better if they were both on the bottom end or if at least the charger was.22:35
alteregoVenemo: sure, but this isn't the N900 and this isn't maemo.org22:35
Venemosure22:35
alteregoTronic: maybe, I don't really care :P22:35
alteregoVenemo: we never had N810 loaners for instance22:36
Venemomhm22:36
alteregoAnd I had to pay full price for my N900 ..22:36
* alterego kicks stupid maemo.org karma22:36
VenemoI did so too, but at the time I did it because I thought it was a good phone, not because I wanted to develop for it22:36
Venemolater on I found out that Qt development is fun, and the adventure began22:37
alteregoMeh, I did for both reasons ;)22:37
Venemowell, at the time, I wasn't familiar with Qt or Linux or anything like this at all :)22:37
VenemoI was a .NET developer22:37
alteregoYes, and look at you now :)22:37
Venemohehe, thanks :)22:37
alteregoSeriously though, you've got a very good chance of getting one imo22:38
rafael2kpeople, I didn't get it. What can I do to get/buy an N950?22:38
alteregoList all your maemo contributions in the text box where it says "HAve you done anything for maemo" :P22:38
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Venemothank you alterego22:38
alteregorafael2k: Are you a software developer that works on maemo or meego?22:38
TronicThe marketing of N900 failed. I only bought one Sep 2010 and found out what an awesome device it was. If someone had told me before that I can have essentially a phone-sized Linux laptop that also has a good phone and UI that actually works well in that size, I would had been in the queue in front of the store the day it became available.22:38
Venemothere is one thing I still don't quite get.22:38
MohammadAGlist? I linked to my git and maemo.org pages22:38
alteregoMohammadAG: I'm sure that will suffice.22:39
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alteregoVenemo: yes?22:39
rafael2kalterego: yes22:39
alteregorafael2k: then apply for the developer program on meego.com22:39
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Venemoon the application form, there is an entry "Project Name" and "Project URL", but I don't have a specific project in mind that I would work on. Instead, I want to work on various stuff and ideas22:39
TronicEvery now and then people came over to an open-source project I work on, to ask for a N900 port, but I had no idea. My only thoughts were that it was some mobile device and that porting to it would be really difficult.22:40
rafael2kwhere this form is?22:40
StskeepsUlf_: i may have a hunch on the lockup thing, currently rebuilding arm glibc to verify it22:40
Venemoalterego, what do you think?22:41
alteregoVenemo: pick your most impressive one ;)22:41
TronicI just hope that MeeGo devices get pushed properly so that people actually know what they are and why they want one :)22:41
alteregoBut also note that you have a lot of things you wanna port across in the bottom box.22:41
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Venemoalterego, I'm thinking of writing "Various" into the project name field and link to a page/blog entry on which I write a list of projects I want to make22:41
alteregoTronic: I don't think this device is the same kind of thing as the N900, this really is marketted at normal users.22:41
alteregoIt has MMS ffs :P22:41
TronicI consider N9 an iPhone killer. Maybe not a phone I'd like to replace my N900 with, but with a phone that I would pay the full price for even if I got iPhone for free.22:42
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Tronic*but a phone22:42
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Venemoanyway, I definitely don't wish to pay for the N950/N9, as it's not worth it IMO, but I would very much like to develop for it (alongside the N900 of course)22:43
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Tronicalterego: I've had fMMS installed on N900 for ages, never sent or received any MMS, I think.22:43
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alteregoTronic: would you class yourself as a normal user? ;)22:43
alteregoI've never MMS'd either, I don't even have fMMS instaled.22:43
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VenemoI never installed fMMS, and guess what, I've never needed it22:44
Tronicalterego: I suppose that I am your average Joe adult user.22:44
alteregoVenemo: I installed it once to get some pics of your mom naked :P22:44
Venemoalterego, :D22:44
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MohammadAGwhat's with the your mom jokes around here lately? :P22:45
alteregoMohammadAG: I don't know, I've never stopped talking about yours ..22:45
GeneralAntilleshttp://www.smarthome.com/7434/Visonic-VXS-5-Proximity-Access-Control-System/p.aspx22:45
Stskeepsyes, please keep it clean and according to irc guidelines22:45
GeneralAntillesLooks about right.22:45
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alteregoHeh, nice22:45
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JaffaGeneralAntilles: Actually NFC?22:47
* MohammadAG stabs alterego :p22:47
SpeedEvilIthere is no one 'NFC'22:47
GeneralAntillesJaffa, RFID. Can program arbitrary tags in.22:48
GeneralAntillesSo I believe it should work.22:48
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SpeedEvilMany of the fun potential apps of a NFC device in your phone are strongly ameliorated by the fact that it has a battery which runs fown22:49
berndhsaren't there induction chargers ?22:50
SpeedEvilThe n9 I mean22:50
berndhswould be cool if it had one22:50
SpeedEvilInduction chargers are not magic.22:51
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berndhsno but you have less trouble with connectors22:51
SpeedEvilThey waste energy, and heat the phone up noticably over what it might otherwise be.22:51
berndhssure22:51
SpeedEvilThe right fix for that is a dock connector.22:51
SpeedEvilBut...22:51
berndhsi'm thinking about harsher environments, like boats22:52
DocScrutinizerold nokias had GREAT docks22:52
SpeedEvilA device like a phone is hard to truly seal properly.22:52
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SpeedEvilBasically the only way you can really do it is to pack the whole thing with silicone gel.22:53
DocScrutinizernokia has some ruggedized models22:53
berndhsyes it would get bulkier22:53
SpeedEvilWhich is an option.22:53
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SpeedEvilAnd connectors get nasty22:53
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loft306http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/22/nokia-n950-pictures-a-gallerys-worth-of-meego-to-tell-the-stor/22:53
lcukwhat about the golden shellback stuff22:53
loft306oop-22:53
DocScrutinizercontact plates22:53
SpeedEvilI love the video of the BBC journalist, at the expo, with a guy demoing 'unbreakable' phones.22:53
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SpeedEvilOf course - there's the obligatory fishtank to show waterproofness.22:54
DocScrutinizerlcuk: probably same thing I referred to?22:54
lcukSpeedEvil, :D22:54
lcukhe whacks it on the corner22:54
SpeedEvilSo - the BBC journalist is asked 'do whatever you want to it' - and he starts hitting the screen on the corner of the fishtank.22:54
SpeedEvilOops.22:54
lcuk:D:D22:54
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Ulf_Stskeeps, cool!22:54
lcuksimilar is the guy holding the rare expensive irreplacable wax disks22:54
lcukSpeedEvil, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnsizkVjGm822:56
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Venemoalterego, you know, my problem with all this stuff is that I still haven't managed to get a job in Qt... :(22:57
alteregoHeh22:57
alteregoI just read qgil's forum post.22:57
Venemoalterego, I got a WP7 project recently... ehh.22:57
alteregoApparently they're more after app devs than platform devs.22:57
* alterego is screwed.22:57
alteregoSo, it's not a reward scheme, it's a freakin' app grab.22:59
* alterego sobs22:59
MohammadAGcolumbus is an app :p22:59
alteregoSure it is,22:59
lcukcolumbus is a feature rich framework :P22:59
lcukerrr app22:59
alteregoHeh22:59
Venemolcuk, do you have an N950 yet? :)23:00
alteregolcuk: you forgot, "unmaintained" :P23:00
alteregoHarmattan would change that for me somewhat.23:00
MohammadAGstill helped get on with Qt :p23:00
berndhsmy IRC window looks a lot like an xterm, causing me to type int eh wrong window23:00
lcukVenemo, I have no device with a number over 1023:00
* alterego chuckles23:00
Venemolcuk, you have an N9 then?23:00
alteregoHE has an N0023:00
Venemoaaahhhh......23:01
alteregolcuk: you should have said 1 :P23:01
lcukwell I tohught binary 2 was enough of a hint ;)23:01
berndhsdont just accept the manufacturers numbers, just relabel it23:01
lcuk*thought23:02
Venemoso the final name is "MeeGo 1.2 Harmattan"23:02
alteregoHeh23:02
alteregoVenemo: seems that way.23:02
alteregoThough they should have done a better s/maemo/meego/g ..23:02
Venemoalterego, I thought that LF will not allow them to release something called MeeGo which is not MeeGo compliant...23:02
Venemoanyway, it's nicer than what I expected.23:03
JaffaVenemo: No-one ever said that.23:03
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VenemoJaffa, hm?23:03
berndhseven if someone did say that, someone would need to bring up the issue with the LF23:03
alteregoYeah, it's just a few letters man ..23:03
alteregoAnd even if some one did that, the LF would have to give a scht ;23:04
Venemolol23:04
berndhsbig manufactureres are really really equal23:04
VenemoI don't care this much.23:04
ElleoI'm a little unclear on what the recommended development style is for meego applications, is QT Quick/QML prefered? QtMobile?23:04
berndhsnot just plain equal like you and me23:04
JaffaElleo: QML23:05
Elleookay; I took a look at QML, but after installing the SDK couldn't find see much in the way of standardised widgets, just a handful of very basic types with the documentation seeming to imply they should be extended to create even simple things like buttons23:05
Elleoam I missing something?23:05
Elleosurely everyone shouldn't be creating new button styles with each application, etc.23:06
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VenemoElleo, yes, there are various projects aimed at creating a unifying widget framework for QML, none of which (to my knowledge) are mature enough to justify using QML at all23:06
pvuorelaElleo: for actual widgets -> QtComponents.23:06
alteregoElleo: that's why we have meego-ux-components ..23:06
Elleoalterego: is that not distributed with the SDK?23:07
berndhsthere will be a wide array of choices for standardized components23:07
Elleoor just not preconfigured for use in the meego version of qtcreator?23:07
Venemohowever, you should really use MTF for Harmattan, or is it obsolete now on Harmattan too?23:07
thiago_homeVenemo: there are many reasons to use QML already. Existing apps prove it.23:07
thiago_homethey don't have native look-and-feel yet, granted.23:07
alteregoWhich SDK?23:07
thiago_homesome apps don't require that.23:07
Elleoalterego: 1.223:08
alteregoHarmattan has qt components which themes correctly.23:08
Venemothiago_home, I'm not saying there are not any reasons for QML, just that IMO it isn't worth it yet. but I'm all for the idea of a declarative GUI, for sure.23:08
alteregoElleo: that's a version number, not an SDK name ..23:08
Elleoalterego: http://wiki.meego.com/SDK/Docs/1.223:08
thiago_homeVenemo: well, I'm disagreeing and saying that IMO it's worth it for some cases already.23:08
Elleoit's simply listed as being the meego sdk 1.223:09
alteregoElleo: what are you targeting? Tablet, Handset?23:09
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Elleoalterego: handset, ideally I'd like it to run across both maemo and meego23:09
Venemothiago_home, for the cases that don't require nativ look & feel, sure23:09
alteregoElleo: then you're best bet is QML23:09
alteregoAnd custom widgets ..23:09
ElleoI assume the meego-ux widgets will work under maemo?23:10
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Elleoif they're just simple qml definitions?23:10
alteregoIn a manner ..23:10
pvuorelaharmattan already includes some apps using qtcomponents.23:10
alteregoWell, not all of them are.23:10
thiago_homepvuorela: right, but qtcomponents isn't standard23:11
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Elleowell I'll have a play with meego-ux-components for now23:11
Elleosee if I can get something using them running on my n900 under maemo23:11
alteregothiago_home: it should be standard for Qt ;)23:11
thiago_homealterego: unfortunately, it isn't23:12
alteregoyet?23:12
alteregoOr never?23:12
thiago_homebecause we didn't manage to make it work everywhere (namely, MeeGo), it can't be23:12
thiago_homethat needs to be fixed first23:12
alteregoErm ..23:12
thiago_homeonly then can it be part of Qt23:12
alteregoSurely Qt is upstream.23:12
alteregoScrew MeeGo UX Components ..23:12
thiago_homedoesn't count if you don't take the requirements of MeeGo into consideration in your design phase23:12
alteregoJust make sure they're better, which wont be that hard ..23:13
ElleoI'm guessing all the nice GTK Hildon stuff doesn't ship as standard with meego? ;)23:13
alteregoElleo: no, and HArmattan doesn't even have backward compatibility any more I don't think.23:13
thiago_homealterego: tbh, "works" is more important than "better"23:13
thiago_homebut if both work, then the better one wins23:13
VenemoElleo, GTK Hildon is not "standard with meego"23:14
Elleopity, I know my way around gtk :/23:14
Elleoall the qt tools and infrastructure is something of a mystery to me still23:14
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Elleohmm, seems the meego-ux stuff is very dependant on other meego things23:18
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VenemoI think Gtk is in the MeeGo repo, but not installed by default23:19
ElleoI'm guessing this'll pretty much rule out symbian portability of qml stuff too?23:19
Jaffathiago_home: What's the gap between it running on Harmattan and running on MeeGo?23:20
JaffaElleo: Qt Components works on Symbian, as does raw QML23:20
JaffaElleo: My QML app works on Maemo, Harmattan & Symbian23:20
thiago_homeJaffa: of the components? there's a report I had made, let me find it.23:20
Elleookay, guess I'll go with Qt Components then23:20
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thiago_homeJaffa: http://wiki.qtlabs.org.br/projects/qt-components23:23
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Jaffathiago_home: Thanks23:23
Jaffathiago_home: So, say the bold Button - is that saying there's something commonisable?23:24
thiago_homeJaffa: I'm not sure of the details, tbh23:24
thiago_homethe point was to find what was different, what was commonisable and what was platform-specific (i.e., shouldn't be there)23:25
thiago_homethe people doing the work should be able to understand that23:25
Jaffathiago_home: That'll be handy. I'm sure my first app'll have some kind of abstraction between MeeGo UX Components and Qt Components, using the bits I want.23:25
Jaffathiago_home: "shouldn't be there" - so is this describing problems with Qt Components or MeeGo UX Components? ;-)23:25
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thiago_homeJaffa: both23:27
rafael2kis meego summer release out?23:27
Jaffathiago_home: Fair enough23:27
Jaffarafael2k: Delayed a day23:27
rafael2kJaffa: thanks23:27
Jaffathiago_home: I'm sure we'll see some movement on it from the community app devs the moment people start getting N950s and have N8s, N900s and ExoPCs they want to target too.23:27
thiago_homeand I've got a team ready to do the work of harmonisation23:28
* TSCHAKeee is just sticking to standard Qt Quick23:28
thiago_homeI just need to find the funding for them23:28
TSCHAKeeeand doing my own components23:28
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lcukthiago_home, as with many teams.23:30
lcukthat word sounds good though23:30
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Venemowill Harmattan run on da good ol' N900?23:35
TSCHAKeeeno23:36
Venemo:(23:37
Venemobut MeeGo itself will, right?23:37
Venemodo we know whether Harmattan's UX is FOSS or not?23:37
JaffaVenemo: Harmattan's UX is not FOSS23:38
andre__mostly not.23:38
JaffaVenemo: As has been seen, it's clearly a *powerful* differentitor23:38
Jaffa(but spelt right)23:38
lcukjaffa, the issue is not what can be achieved now23:39
lcukbut what OSS could help with.23:39
lcukand what more it could become23:39
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javispedrowhat is closed about the harmattan ux23:39
javispedroI mean, seriously. Theme files?23:40
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javispedrothis needs a big large list23:40
Jaffajavispedro: Are the three homescreens & lots of the apps OSS? I haven't checked the platform SDK yet23:40
javispedrothey are, though for some reason gitorious still has an older version23:40
javispedrobut package is on free23:40
Venemoso23:41
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javispedronote: talking about meegotouchhome (aka three homescreens)23:41
Venemowe can "just" repackage the UX for MeeGo and then run it on the N900?23:41
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javispedrolots of apps obviously aren't OSS.23:41
lcukVenemo, we can just repackage your package and sell it23:42
lcukRESPECT THEIR LICENSE.23:42
* lcuk stands off soapbox23:42
Venemolcuk, if the license is FOSS, then repackaging it will still respect its license.23:42
javispedroStskeeps: does it cost too much to run that script that gets all packages from repo and counts free/non-free ones? ;)23:43
lcukVenemo, you miss my point23:43
Jaffalcuk: As noted, the N9 is garnering attention for all of it together. Having three home screens and N900-style multitasking isn't it. It's the hardware, software, themes, styles & apps.23:44
lcukyep23:44
Venemolcuk, you can repackage my app and sell it (it is permitted by the EUPL), as long as you comply with the license, eg. don't remove the credits and also distribute the sources to everyone you sell it to.23:45
lcukJaffa, boiled down best in class features, it is a smart piece of kit to be sure.23:45
Venemolcuk, which point am I missing?23:45
javispedroVenemo: but, for a start, themes are non-free. and themes on harmattan do not seem like a trivial thing.23:45
Jaffalcuk: So if the three home screens are FLOSS, there's no ethical or moral issue to having them on MeeGo UX23:45
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lcukJaffa, I have had one of them for a while ;)23:45
Jaffajavispedro: From what kontorri was saying, it sounds *very* complex indeed.23:46
javispedroJaffa: for fscks sake, harmattan theme files even containt the swipe detection algorithm parameters23:46
javispedro*contain23:46
Jaffajavispedro: Wow23:46
X-Fadein css :)23:46
JaffaEek23:46
Venemojavispedro, really? huh!23:46
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X-FadeIt is cool, because then you can alter them and add cool other swipes :)23:47
javispedroas I was saying on #maemo, dconf, gconf, etc... why? you can use cascading style^Wconfiguration sheets23:48
lcuk<TSCHAKeee> SWIPER, NO SWIPIN!23:48
lcuk<TSCHAKeee> SWIPER NO SWIPIN!23:48
lcuk<TSCHAKeee> SWIPER, NO SWIPIN!23:48
lcuk<TSCHAKeee> OHHHH MAAAANNN!!!!23:48
lcuk<TSCHAKeee> :P23:48
javispedrothey even make some sense, if you look at them with one eye closed =)23:48
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javispedroJaffa: if you have the platform sdk, look in /usr/share/themes/base/meegotouch/libmeegotouchcore/style/mswiperecognizerstyle.css23:54
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Venemoone final question is, if Harmattan will be successful, will there be other devices as well?23:55
lcuki imagine Nokia will continue to produce mobile phones, yes.23:56
Troniclcuk: Quite possibly only Windows Phones and S40.23:57
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