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| Alison_Chaiken | http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/20/is-this-nokias-lankku/ | 01:19 |
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| pempa_ | hllo | 01:23 |
| pempa_ | anyone alive.... | 01:23 |
| mikhas | no | 01:24 |
| pempa_ | why is that | 01:24 |
| pempa_ | ? | 01:24 |
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| XwZ | hi, i am trying to install meego on an exoPC slate but with the last stable version (1.2.80.7.0.0.20110620.3) i have some messages in the first screen (hci_cmd_timer: hci0 command tx timeout, and the install wizard never come, do you have an idea ? | 01:41 |
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| XwZ | i download the version 1.2.80.7.0.20110617.2 to test if it is not a release issue ... but i have no hope :/ | 01:42 |
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| CosmoHill | night night | 03:44 |
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| Aranel | need help to install MeeGo 1.2 on my ideapad. I created a 40gig btrfs partition but meego installer just insists "Bootable partitions cannot be on a btrfs filesystem", what to do now? | 04:06 |
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| berndhs | Aranel: make 2 partitions, 1G for /boot, the rest for / | 04:07 |
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| Aranel | berndhs: /boot as ext3? | 04:07 |
| berndhs | yes ext3 will work as bootable | 04:08 |
| Aranel | okay ^^ | 04:08 |
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| * Aranel wonder why meego installer doesnt have any gparted-like capabilities to edit partitions, I hate flashing gparted to my usb drive everytime. | 04:08 | |
| berndhs | it does | 04:09 |
| XwZ | i have an error with my meego ... when i try to update it or ref, ... i got an error "error: dbiOpen: dbapi 1 not available", on some forums i read, it could be urpmi package missing but i don't find it on the repo meego :/ | 04:09 |
| Aranel | berndhs: does it create partitions? | 04:09 |
| XwZ | do you have an idea ? | 04:09 |
| berndhs | Aranel: it did the last time I ran it, but that was for netbook install | 04:10 |
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| Aranel | berndhs: there isn't a button to do it, maybe its removed. | 04:12 |
| XwZ | and it's impossible to install a new version i have many errors in the term "Process meego-im-uiserv (pid: ..) ti=.... task=... tast.ti=(same value as ti) | 04:12 |
| berndhs | don't know, its been about a month | 04:12 |
| ali1234 | i installed 1.2 a few days ago, customized partitions were still available | 04:13 |
| ali1234 | although still buggy with the bootloader stuff | 04:13 |
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| Aranel | well, looks like I'm the only one who couldnt figure out how :) | 04:17 |
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| Aranel | anyway, omw to flash gparted again and create a /boot partition ^^ | 04:17 |
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| gabrbedd | Aranel: There's a partitioning step in the installer. The default is something like "remove all linux partitions and use remaining space." If you instead choose "custom layout" it'll take you to a partition editor. | 04:56 |
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| gabrbedd | Aranel: But caveat emptor... it's not the most robust partition editor in the world. | 04:57 |
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| Aranel | Yay I installed MeeGo 1.2 on ideapad, looks like its working successfully :) But there's a problem on bootloader: It's timeout is too short (a second?) and It defaults to MeeGo, how can I edit these configurations? | 04:59 |
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| berndhs | Aranel: look at /boot/extlinux/extlinux.conf | 05:02 |
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| berndhs | there is a timeout value in there, its something like 1/10s of seconds | 05:02 |
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| Aranel | berndhs: thank you :) so I should make it 50 if I want 5 secs? | 05:10 |
| berndhs | yes that sounds reasonable, dont knwo hwo accurate the timer is | 05:11 |
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| kidproquo | join ##nokiacnxn | 05:14 |
| Aranel | berndhs: thank you ^^ now I got a fully-featured dual-boot installation on my netbook =) | 05:15 |
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| Termana | morning | 05:34 |
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| berndhs | evening | 05:35 |
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| tonberry | hi guys | 06:06 |
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| bleeter | so, er, anyone know what CPU the N9's using? Everything I see from Nokia doesn't say | 06:16 |
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| bleeter | I'm asking 'coz in my experience, mobile user experience in multitaksing relies on multi-core/processor far more than dektop. people more tolerant to waiting on a desktop for UX to return | 06:16 |
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| iekku | morning | 06:37 |
| SpeedEvil | Morning. | 06:38 |
| sofar | I disagree. Evening. Quite clearly. | 06:47 |
| * sofar looks at his espresso. | 06:47 | |
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| julienf | if you want to give a shot at the N950: https://meego.com/community/device-program | 07:17 |
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| iekku | julienf, hmmmmmm | 07:38 |
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| dm8tbr | 'MeeGo 1.2 Harmattan' compliance my a** | 07:39 |
| julienf | iekku: yes? | 07:39 |
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| iekku | julienf, just wondering what excuse to use to get the device :) | 07:40 |
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| julienf | dm8tbr: I wrote a post about that last night and was flamed by someone saying that it doesn't matter | 07:41 |
| iekku | julienf, and i think there's more people who really need the device than i do, since i'm not developer | 07:41 |
| mikhas_ | dm8tbr, so why would it matter anyway? | 07:41 |
| mikhas_ | your QML app will run on N9 and MeeGo | 07:41 |
| mikhas_ | iekku, you need one for testing, no? | 07:42 |
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| mikhas_ | you could develop a bugwatch app | 07:42 |
| * mikhas_ hides | 07:43 | |
| dm8tbr | mikhas_: because it's an very very loud 'FUCK YOU, IN YOUR FUCKING FACE FUCKERS' to all community developers who ever tried to bring meego to hardware and were hit by the 'you won't ever be compliant, go hug a tree' bus. | 07:43 |
| iekku | mikhas_, i just can't develop anything, that's the problem | 07:43 |
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| julienf | mikhas_: that's true for simple applications, not necessarily for more complex ones | 07:43 |
| mikhas_ | dm8tbr, you can blame *that* on the other elephant in the room, my friend | 07:43 |
| iekku | mikhas_, i try to collect devices to get better understanding of the bugs, but.. | 07:43 |
| mikhas_ | julienf, oh I know | 07:44 |
| mikhas_ | it wasn't my decision to deprecate LMT on MeeGo, for example | 07:44 |
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| dm8tbr | mikhas_: well it's got a 'MeeGo' on it so I will stick it to everyone who dares to utter the c-word from now on. | 07:45 |
| wmarone | dm8tbr: hey, at least it has a handset device on the market now rather than a bunch of half-functional tablets | 07:46 |
| wmarone | well, will have soon | 07:46 |
| dm8tbr | well, will it ever run _real_ meego? | 07:46 |
| wmarone | possibly, if Nokia supplies the MeeGo community in the same way they did for the N900 | 07:47 |
| dm8tbr | my understanding is 'comes with Maemo plus Qt' | 07:47 |
| mikhas_ | dm8tbr, will MeeGo ever run Harmattan? =p | 07:47 |
| iekku | :D | 07:48 |
| dm8tbr | oh yes, let's convert MeeGo to deb packaging! | 07:48 |
| mikhas_ | sure | 07:48 |
| mikhas_ | it's not as if either format is any better | 07:48 |
| mikhas_ | RPM (the tool) just sucks the effing life out of me | 07:48 |
| mikhas_ | and debian rules files come straight from hell | 07:49 |
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| dm8tbr | I don't even care about which $packaging_format they use at the moment | 07:50 |
| dm8tbr | the emphasis was on _convert_ and the implied _once_ _again_ :p | 07:51 |
| mikeleib | meego this and meego harmattan that. confusing | 07:52 |
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| mikhas_ | yes | 07:53 |
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| timoph | morning | 07:54 |
| julienf | morning timoph | 07:54 |
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| povlinski | hello. how much does n950 cost? what is cpu and ram? | 08:00 |
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| wmarone | n950 has no price yet, it has the same internal hardware as the N9 | 08:00 |
| povlinski | is anyone here on the launchpad program? http://www.developer.nokia.com/Developer_Programs/Launchpad.xhtml | 08:00 |
| povlinski | faster than n900? | 08:01 |
| wmarone | (or so I believe, nothing to counter that considering the N9 came in short of what I expected...) | 08:01 |
| wmarone | yes | 08:01 |
| wmarone | I applied, nothing yet | 08:01 |
| povlinski | what is the cpu / soc? | 08:01 |
| wmarone | OMAP3630 @ 1GHz | 08:01 |
| Stskeepz | sounds good | 08:01 |
| povlinski | hmm there is a 3640 | 08:01 |
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| povlinski | i am testing on a 1ghz 3640 | 08:02 |
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| povlinski | very good powermanagement | 08:03 |
| dm8tbr | it's a BeagleXM in a nice case with a capacitive touchscreen ;) | 08:04 |
| wmarone | basically yeah :) | 08:05 |
| wmarone | much more portable though | 08:05 |
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| dm8tbr | nice thing: Archos generation 8 tablets/PMPs have a near identical SoC too, so there might be some potential for synergy | 08:06 |
| dm8tbr | after all we've been experimenting with real meego on them for a while now | 08:07 |
| povlinski | what is missing for hardware support? | 08:09 |
| Stskeepz | dm8tbr: what frequency does SGX run on there? | 08:10 |
| povlinski | wifi, tslib.. | 08:10 |
| Stskeepz | noone uses tslib anymore | 08:10 |
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| julienf | dm8tbr: any chance to get that running on my Archos 70? | 08:11 |
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| dm8tbr | well I sure hope that now there will be working hardfloat SGX drivers for 36xx omap3 | 08:14 |
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| * Stskeepz points to _r125 | 08:15 | |
| povlinski | what is the name for the non-meego meego for archos | 08:16 |
| dm8tbr | julienf: that's what I hope for, that now that there is nokia hardware with same silicon it will be properly supported | 08:16 |
| dm8tbr | yes _r125 is the IP core in those IIRC | 08:16 |
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| povlinski | some 'specs' http://www.developer.nokia.com/swipe/ux/pages/Hardware.html | 08:22 |
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| dm8tbr | interesting, so either they went with something like TI wl1273 (or even newer) or chose a totally different wifi chipset | 08:24 |
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| TSCHAKeee | wtf, is the N9 the MeeGo phone? | 08:24 |
| SpeedEvil | yes\ | 08:24 |
| TSCHAKeee | ok | 08:24 |
| dm8tbr | there is also the n950 which seems to be the foldable thingy | 08:25 |
| TSCHAKeee | two meego phones? | 08:25 |
| dm8tbr | http://www.developer.nokia.com/Devices/MeeGo/#article2 | 08:25 |
| wmarone | no, just one (for the proles) | 08:26 |
| wmarone | The N950 will have limited distribution | 08:26 |
| dm8tbr | correct | 08:26 |
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| TSCHAKeee | I want an N950 :( | 08:31 |
| * TSCHAKeee officially hates nokia now | 08:31 | |
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| Stskeeps | then submit a proposal to the meego device program | 08:31 |
| TSCHAKeee | considering that we had orbiters on all of the Nokia tablets | 08:31 |
| TSCHAKeee | i think my request is justified | 08:31 |
| Stskeeps | sounds like an idea | 08:32 |
| TSCHAKeee | Stskeeps: where specifically? | 08:32 |
| Stskeeps | sec | 08:32 |
| SpeedEvil | orbiters? | 08:32 |
| Stskeeps | flors.wordpress.com/2011/06/20/nokia-n9-state-of-the-art-of-mobile-linux-and-qt/ | 08:32 |
| Stskeeps | second section | 08:32 |
| TSCHAKeee | SpeedEvil: Orbiters are our intelligent remotes for LinuxMCE, they are control points for virtually every piece of tech inside the home | 08:32 |
| TSCHAKeee | SpeedEvil: targeted for tablets, cell phones, IP phones, on screen TV displays, etc. | 08:33 |
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| SpeedEvil | ah | 08:33 |
| wmarone | I guess we need a clip-on bluetooth/NFC keyboard accessory for the N9, if the N950 is going to be so hard to get | 08:33 |
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| TSCHAKeee | SpeedEvil: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2176025602905109829 <-- watch this. ;) | 08:39 |
| TSCHAKeee | Stskeeps: okay I applied. Thanks man :) | 08:39 |
| * TSCHAKeee hugs Stskeeps | 08:39 | |
| SpeedEvil | TSCHAKeee: Can't easily - don't want to blow quota - on 3g | 08:40 |
| SpeedEvil | and perilously close. | 08:40 |
| TSCHAKeee | SpeedEvil: aww, bookmark it.. also http://www.linuxmce.org/ | 08:40 |
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| SpeedEvil | k | 08:40 |
| TSCHAKeee | SpeedEvil: we've been working close to a decade to create the most advanced smart home platform on the planet. | 08:40 |
| SpeedEvil | Sounds like the sort of stuff I'm interested in and can't afford. | 08:40 |
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| TSCHAKeee | SpeedEvil: it uses commodity hardware, so don't be so sure. | 08:41 |
| TSCHAKeee | we support a LOT of stuff | 08:41 |
| TSCHAKeee | from cheap stuff, to the really expensive ultra high end stuff | 08:41 |
| TSCHAKeee | and lots of stuff in between | 08:41 |
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| SpeedEvil | At the moment, I'm DIYing house insulation, as I can't affod to get it done properly. | 08:41 |
| SpeedEvil | Nice control of stuff is some way down the list alas. | 08:41 |
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| TSCHAKeee | SpeedEvil: i understand.. watch the video..and a lot of the stuff labeled "LinuxMCE" on youtube.. | 08:42 |
| TSCHAKeee | I'm the lead dev. | 08:42 |
| SpeedEvil | Sunds interesting - bookmarked | 08:42 |
| SpeedEvil | I've been getting ready to implement something based on 1-wire | 08:43 |
| TSCHAKeee | we support 1-wire | 08:43 |
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| TSCHAKeee | mostly for sensor reading | 08:43 |
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| TSCHAKeee | the entire system is built atop a highly modular messaging framework | 08:43 |
| TSCHAKeee | SpeedEvil: and we unify lighting, media, climate, security, and telecom under one roof. | 08:44 |
| TSCHAKeee | it all talks to each other. | 08:44 |
| TSCHAKeee | and if you can provide a method to do presence detection (the orbiters do it manually out of the box, if you just change the room) | 08:44 |
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| TSCHAKeee | such as a cell phone, or an RFID tag, or a remote contorl with a definite address | 08:44 |
| TSCHAKeee | you can make things like lighting, media, telecom, etc follow you across the house. | 08:44 |
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| SpeedEvil | TSCHAKeee: funky. I'll read up on it when I've got working net and am not asleep. | 08:45 |
| SpeedEvil | (7AM - not gone to bed) | 08:45 |
| TSCHAKeee | it also has a comprehensive storage layer, where hard drive storage, and optical drives are shared housewide. | 08:45 |
| TSCHAKeee | yikes go to bed | 08:45 |
| TSCHAKeee | ;) | 08:45 |
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| Qantourisc | I was supprised when I read MeeGo useses PulseAudio ... doesn't this load the cpu ? | 09:07 |
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| sofar | Qantourisc: do you have any technical argument that it does, or just heresay anecdotes? | 09:08 |
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| khertan | Qantourisc, PulseAudio eat cpu on Ubuntu 10.04 because they poorly integrate it. So now every ubuntu fan think pulseaudio sucks | 09:14 |
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| flailingmonkey | yeah, they really butchered their deployment of pulse | 09:15 |
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| hiemanshu | by they you mean lennart | 09:16 |
| sofar | yeah man, he totally works for canonical alright | 09:16 |
| sofar | right? right? | 09:17 |
| hiemanshu | eh? | 09:17 |
| hiemanshu | he is a red hat guy | 09:17 |
| sofar | yes, and if you hate his code, better stop using meego since we're doing systemd in 1.3 | 09:17 |
| hiemanshu | the only thing about systemd is the that he might leave it, like the way he did for PA | 09:18 |
| * tomeu hopes he stopped using so many single-letter variable identifiers | 09:18 | |
| DocScrutinizer | I tried to apply for N9-devkit at http://www.developer.nokia.com/Devices/MeeGo/ - alas it always takes me to the registration for for launchpad, which eventually ends in a deadend loop saying >>Developer account registration >>Developer account registration >> group membership operation already in progress | 09:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | can anybody share a hint how to proceed please? | 09:19 |
| hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: they are going to verify the membership first (nokia) | 09:19 |
| hiemanshu | atleast thats what I read | 09:19 |
| Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: http://flors.wordpress.com/2011/06/20/nokia-n9-state-of-the-art-of-mobile-linux-and-qt/ , section two | 09:20 |
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| Qantourisc | sofar: No I have no proof, or technical argument, it's clear from that comment it's NOT cpu hungry :) | 09:20 |
| Qantourisc | Witch is verry nice to hear | 09:21 |
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| sofar | hiemanshu: lennert is actively maintaining and fixing pulseaudio | 09:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps: how does this help? | 09:22 |
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| leo_ | I have a tablet with Atom z530 and gma500, but the "meego-tablet-ia32-pinetrail.img" have no gma500 driver. Where can I found this driver. | 09:22 |
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| Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: seperate programme | 09:22 |
| pabs3 | leo_: its in recent upstream kernels IIRC | 09:22 |
| Qantourisc | Can I properly test meego using a netbook image to see how it would go on a phone ? | 09:23 |
| sofar | leo_: start reading here: http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_Netbook_FAQ | 09:23 |
| Qantourisc | (To decide if it has evolged enough to start using it.) | 09:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps: sorry, I don't get it. the link there >>The Nokia N950 is a platform available now for developers targeting the Nokia N9 and MeeGo handset apps in general. Technical details are available at http://developer.nokia.com/swipe | 09:23 |
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| sofar | Qantourisc: yes, there are pinetrail images with handset ux | 09:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | gets me straight to where I entered that deadend loop | 09:24 |
| Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: right, but if you're not a company, there's a meego device programme for the n950 stuff | 09:24 |
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| Qantourisc | sofar: I can run handset images on my pc ? (duno) | 09:24 |
| Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&key=cdee124b11d6baacda6c3e29b12e23dc&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fflors.wordpress.com%2F2011%2F06%2F20%2Fnokia-n9-state-of-the-art-of-mobile-linux-and-qt%2F&v=1&libid=1308637450618&out=https%3A%2F%2Fmeego.com%2Fcommunity%2Fdevice-program&title=Nokia%20N9%3A%20state%20of%20the%20art%20of%20mobile%20Linux%20and%20Qt%20%C2%AB%20flors&txt=MeeGo%20Community%20Device%20Program | 09:24 |
| Stskeeps | .. | 09:24 |
| Stskeeps | fucking web | 09:24 |
| Stskeeps | https://meego.com/community/device-program | 09:24 |
| sofar | LOL | 09:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | HOORAY 3rd page with >>https://meego.com/community/device-program<< | 09:25 |
| flailingmonkey | Stskeeps: ah so LaunchPad is something totally different | 09:25 |
| Stskeeps | ok, time for me to work | 09:25 |
| * Stskeeps gets back to figuring out why @%@% qt scenegraph shaders doesn't work on n900 | 09:25 | |
| sofar | Qantourisc: look at http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/releases/1.1/handset/images/ for isntance | 09:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | honestly, seems impossible to follow kontori's advice and apply for a N950 | 09:26 |
| Qantourisc | O dear big traffic jam have to leave now (you can still toss me the answer and i'll read it tomorooow :) | 09:26 |
| sofar | Qantourisc: there are ia32-pinetrail images for the handset UX, and those do run on most netbooks | 09:26 |
| Qantourisc | sofar: i'll try to run a few :) thx | 09:26 |
| flailingmonkey | DocScrutinizer: what is the first thing you'd want to do with an N950? :) | 09:26 |
| Qantourisc | sofar: will be running it on xen to test :p | 09:26 |
| sofar | Qantourisc: there's no 1.2 ia32-pinetrail image out yet, just a 1.1 one | 09:26 |
| sofar | xen? ew | 09:26 |
| sofar | VMs don't do MeeGo justice... | 09:27 |
| Qantourisc | sofar: why ew ? | 09:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer | [2011-06-21 07:06:35] <konttori_work> DocScrutinizer: fill it in. I'll discuss with developer program guys that we need a few community hackers as well | 09:27 |
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| povlinski | a few | 09:27 |
| povlinski | so anything done for n950 will see 'a few' users | 09:28 |
| Qantourisc | sofar: i'm intrested in testing: cramming custom software on it, testing if the software supports my needs | 09:28 |
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| Jaffa | DocScrutinizer: Was that for Launchpad or meego.com programme? | 09:28 |
| povlinski | still might be nice to have | 09:28 |
| * sofar gives up for today | 09:28 | |
| Stskeeps | nite sofar | 09:28 |
| wmarone | povlinski: things done on the N950 should translate to the N9, there shouldn't be an OS or hardware difference aside from the keyboard.... shouldn't.... | 09:28 |
| hena_ | crap, and here i was hoping the n950 would be something better, but it's this dev phone for n9? :/ | 09:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | Jaffa: this was for trying to get a N950 | 09:28 |
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| Jaffa | DocScrutinizer: Yeah, but there are two ways :) | 09:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | I found none of both | 09:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | so MEH | 09:30 |
| Jaffa | hena: N950 is "better" if you want keyboard or no NFC and not quite as striking industrial design | 09:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer | oce again wasting hours to find a way thru meego textadventure jungle, for no result | 09:30 |
| Jaffa | DocScrutinizer: Does Texrat's webapp not work on meego.com? | 09:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | eh? | 09:30 |
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| pabs3 | Jaffa: isn't the screen tech different too? I read that it is not AMOLED | 09:31 |
| Jaffa | pabs3: Ah, maybe | 09:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | Jaffa: sorry I don't get it what you're asking me | 09:32 |
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| Jaffa | DocScrutinizer: Go to _Community_ section on yesterday's MWKN and follow the story for MeeGo Community Device Programme. | 09:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer | aaah, there's pink apply button there | 09:33 |
| Jaffa | DocScrutinizer: Or, the one you've done, try developer.nokia.com's Launchpad programme | 09:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Jaffa: I'm trapped in endless loop in developer.nokia.com | 09:33 |
| povlinski | there will be a 'few'? or a few thousands? | 09:33 |
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| leo_ | pabs3: Can you tell me the kernel version that have the gma500 driver? | 09:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Jaffa: seems we're back to "why would you need a meego account anyway, fool?!" I got bashed with when I tried registering some 12 months ago | 09:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | which probably will end today as it ended 12 months ago | 09:36 |
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| leo_ | I found "pvr-bin" here "http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/stable/1.2.0.90/1.2.0.90.0.20110517.1/repos/non-oss/ia32/packages/i586/". Is this gma500 driver? | 09:38 |
| Stskeeps | no, look for emgd | 09:38 |
| hena | Jaffa: why is it better? | 09:38 |
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| leo_ | you mean emgd-bin this package is gma500 driver? | 09:39 |
| pabs3 | leo_: looks like it was added after .39 and before 3.0 rc1 | 09:39 |
| pabs3 | leo_: in the staging area | 09:39 |
| hena | we got the n9 demo, which i guess is n950 | 09:39 |
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| flailingmonkey | n950 has keyboard | 09:40 |
| Jaffa | DocScrutinizer: You're having trouble getting a meego.com account? | 09:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer | actually I tried again to get an account, it accepted it after I changed joerg_rw to joerg900 as no "_", and forwarded me to the login tab. No avail to login with same credentials | 09:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | Sorry, unrecognized username or password. Have you forgotten your password? | 09:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I'm rather sure in 2 hours we'll and at same point of somebody suggesting "why do you use fucking webbrowsers like konqueror, use firefox like we al do! and why do you want a meego account at all, fool?!" | 09:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | s/ and / end / | 09:43 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer meant: I'm rather sure in 2 hours we'll end at same point of somebody suggesting "why do you use fucking webbrowsers like konqueror, use firefox like we al do! and why do you want a meego account at all, fool?!" | 09:43 |
| Stskeeps | in two hours? how about now? | 09:43 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 09:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | how about telling you now that even that disn't cure the issue back when I tried it first | 09:44 |
| Stskeeps | i can't recall when i registered my meego.com account, but wouldn't it usually ask for some kind of email activation? | 09:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | how about telling you now that I'm not willing to change my desktop to win7, if any fool at meego thinks that's the way to go | 09:45 |
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| Qantourisc | Nice you can roll your own image ! | 09:49 |
| Qantourisc | verrry sweet | 09:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps: JFYI: FF doesn't work as well for login, registering says "account name taken", no confirmation mail of any kind at web.de, no notice about "wait for such mail" when registering | 09:53 |
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| Stskeeps | mmka | 09:53 |
| Stskeeps | y | 09:53 |
| Qantourisc | Any image with x86 hardware support ? | 09:54 |
| Qantourisc | (So I can test ?) | 09:54 |
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| povlinski | is access to n950 reserved for a few community developers who work on projects nokia approves, or any developer who wants to port or write some apps? | 09:54 |
| Jaffa | povlinski: The programme at meego.com has 250 devices to distribute to the community | 09:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | povlinski: it's first instance limited to those able to apply for it - seems a mission impossible | 09:55 |
| Jaffa | povlinski: Texrat can better explain the process | 09:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | even with "support" from kontori | 09:55 |
| povlinski | thank you jaffa! i think i do not qualify :) | 09:56 |
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| flailingmonkey | DocScrutinizer: I will take up the challenge | 09:56 |
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| flailingmonkey | DocScrutinizer: race to apply lol | 09:56 |
| Jaffa | DocScrutinizer: mece has succeeded apparently | 09:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | pfff | 09:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer | given the fact others *asked* me to take care, and I'm not actually that much interested in getting merits or free device for some months, or anything around meego, it's quite amazing how hostile the process treats me when trying to actually apply for an account, a device, whatever | 09:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer | spnt way too long with all this hoax of a web presence and application form | 10:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer | NB using both my standard browser and FF, no diff | 10:00 |
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| pabs3 | so uh, did Nokia get open drivers for the PowerVR chip, or? | 10:02 |
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| flailingmonkey | DocScrutinizer: just made a new meego.com account, looking at https://meego.com/community/device-program clicking apply has me at an application page | 10:03 |
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| hiemanshu | I clicked apply, and logged in via openid | 10:03 |
| hiemanshu | got me to the application page | 10:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | flailingmonkey: as you can easily read some lines up, it's not even possible to get a meego account | 10:03 |
| thiago_home | pabs3: it's not open | 10:04 |
| hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: login via openid | 10:04 |
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| flailingmonkey | DocScrutinizer: that's confusing, because I just did so... | 10:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer | wtf is openid? what am I supposed to enter in that friggin textfield? | 10:05 |
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| Jaffa | DocScrutinizer: A URL. Something like htp://maemo.org/openid/jaffa/ | 10:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | honnestly, c'mon - THAT is the way you join meego? | 10:05 |
| Jaffa | DocScrutinizer: No, it's one way. | 10:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I have no such URL at hand | 10:06 |
| pabs3 | thiago_home: fun. any idea if the blobs are redistributable? | 10:06 |
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| thiago_home | pabs3: I don't know the licensing terms | 10:06 |
| hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: http://openid.net/ | 10:06 |
| Jaffa | DocScrutinizer: For some reason (ad-blocker?) you can't do something that the rest of us have on a variety of browsers | 10:06 |
| flailingmonkey | you're just asking him to make yet another account | 10:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer | sorry, I'm not going to go thru a 3 day training crashcourse just to *login* to a friggin website | 10:07 |
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| Stskeeps | pabs3: OMAP3 SGX libs are redistributable nowadays | 10:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | Jaffa: I have no adblockers, for sure not on 2 different browsers, Firefox being one of them | 10:08 |
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| pabs3 | Stskeeps: ok, cool. so they can go into rpmfusion or Debian non-free in the case of a hypothetical Debian/Fedora distro | 10:09 |
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| Stskeeps | pabs3: right | 10:09 |
| flailingmonkey | DocScrutinizer: i'll make you an account myself if i have to lol | 10:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | damn, if I sign up with "joerg900" "foobar" "foobar" then I'd expect same user-pw tuple to work for login in same webpage, next tab | 10:10 |
| Qantourisc | Website could really do with a few pointer to "how to compile your own img" | 10:10 |
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| flailingmonkey | apparently joergrw exists... | 10:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, since 12 months I guess | 10:10 |
| flailingmonkey | joerg900 seems broken (looking at user page fails to load properly) | 10:10 |
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| flailingmonkey | joerg also exists | 10:11 |
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| flailingmonkey | i can see you've been busy trying to make an account :p | 10:11 |
| flailingmonkey | joergrw, 48 weeks 6 days | 10:11 |
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| flailingmonkey | DocScrutinizer: supposedly, reset password instructions have now been sent to whatever e-mail was used to setup the account joergrw | 10:12 |
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| flailingmonkey | *shrugs* | 10:13 |
| * flailingmonkey shrugs | 10:13 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | Reset password You have successfully validated your e-mail address. This is a one-time login for joergrw and will expire on 22 June, 2011 - 00:12. Click on this button to login to the site and change your password. This login can be used only once. | 10:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | clicking on "log in"... -> | 10:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I get some "sorry Access denied, you may have to confirm... " | 10:16 |
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| khertan | DocScrutinizer, n9 Devkit is n950 ;) ps no nfc :) | 10:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | thanks a lot for clicking on "forgot my password" for joergrw, flailingmonkey | 10:17 |
| flailingmonkey | when I got my one-time-password e-mail, it had a link which logged me in :/ | 10:17 |
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| flailingmonkey | in addition to the written version of the password | 10:17 |
| flailingmonkey | then I was able to change password | 10:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yeah, it said "You have successfully validated your e-mail address." | 10:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer | alas it still sais "Access denied" when I click on "log in" of same page | 10:18 |
| flailingmonkey | your user accounts much be cursed in the db | 10:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I come to think that's intentional | 10:19 |
| Termana | What the real problem is | 10:19 |
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| Termana | Is DocScrutinizer needs to use another browser | 10:19 |
| Termana | :p | 10:19 |
| flailingmonkey | i find that hard to believe | 10:19 |
| flailingmonkey | too easy to use such excuse to shift blame :p | 10:19 |
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| khertan | to be honest i didn't understand why i need to enter my name to every section of this website | 10:20 |
| khertan | ... | 10:20 |
| khertan | Anyway, someone know if QWidget will be themed on Harmatatanan ? | 10:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer | flailingmonkey: ok, finally managed to log in via FF | 10:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | after esetting my password jet another time | 10:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | while konqueror still gives me " Access Denied / User Login Access denied. You may need to login below or register to access this page." | 10:28 |
| Stskeeps | clean out cookies? | 10:29 |
| Stskeeps | for the site | 10:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer | might be an idea | 10:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | thanks | 10:29 |
| flailingmonkey | DocScrutinizer: you managed to log in? fantastic :) | 10:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yeah :-S | 10:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | now basically all I wanna do is apply for that friggin N9-dev | 10:30 |
| RST38h | Still no place to apply though | 10:30 |
| flailingmonkey | https://meego.com/node/add/device-application/581 | 10:30 |
| flailingmonkey | should be direct link to apply | 10:30 |
| RST38h | hmm | 10:31 |
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| flailingmonkey | this is the community device program path | 10:31 |
| flailingmonkey | not the LaunchPad thing other links go to | 10:31 |
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| sivang | what a great day :) | 10:35 |
| RST38h | Applied! | 10:37 |
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| julienf | for some reasons I don't see the launchpad opportunity on Nokia Dev. Guess I wasn't selected... | 10:42 |
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| RST38h | Ah. Finally. | 10:43 |
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| flailingmonkey | julienf: i would suggest going to https://meego.com/community/device-program | 10:45 |
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| flailingmonkey | not Nokia Dev | 10:45 |
| julienf | flailingmonkey: I'll leave the community device to community developers, I am far from making any useful apps for the community, but working on an exciting project | 10:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer | applied, phoooo, only took like 3h | 10:48 |
| flailingmonkey | julienf: ah alright. I wouldn't expect much in terms of speed or response from Nokia though :p | 10:48 |
| julienf | flailingmonkey: yeah, I'll find a way :) | 10:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | plus I finally got a working account on meego, thanks flailingmonkey :-D | 10:48 |
| flailingmonkey | DocScrutinizer: no problem lol, I like a challenge | 10:48 |
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| flailingmonkey | I'm looking at the application page, but I don't have much idea of what to write | 10:49 |
| slaine | "It's shiny and new, I want one" | 10:50 |
| slaine | Sounds about right | 10:50 |
| RST38h | OMG, Doc, you did not have a meego.com account? :) | 10:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | julienf: I got stuck at developers.nokia.com as well | 10:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | julienf: this launchpad thing kinda seems broken | 10:51 |
| julienf | DocScrutinizer: ok. Let's see | 10:52 |
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| Jaffa | julienf: DocScrutinizer: FWIW, there doesn't *yet* seem to be a DDP on developer.nokia.com | 10:54 |
| julienf | Jaffa: DocScrutinizer that's my understanding... | 10:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | Jaffa: I found out the hard way it seems | 10:56 |
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| * thiago_home should apply for a dev device too | 10:56 | |
| * khertan is lost on this new developper nokia | 10:56 | |
| * khertan think that maybe because it s look like now msdn ... information everywhere | 10:57 | |
| flailingmonkey | https://meego.com/community/device-program | 10:57 |
| RST38h | By the way, is the SDK out? | 10:57 |
| pabs3 | yes | 10:58 |
| RST38h | URL? | 10:58 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: Yes. http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/. Existing Qt SDKs can be updated | 10:58 |
| pabs3 | harmattan-dev.nokia.com | 10:58 |
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| RST38h | Jaffa: Yahooooo | 10:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | khertan: it's a text adventure dungeon | 11:00 |
| thiago_home | like git add -i used to be? | 11:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | khertan: I finally go trapped in an endless loop in application forn for lauchpad membership | 11:00 |
| vgrade | leo_, hi | 11:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | khertan: all other pointers end there | 11:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | sooner or later | 11:01 |
| Jaffa | DocScrutinizer: I've got Launchpad membership. It doesn't help | 11:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | thought as much | 11:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | I think I also have | 11:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | nevertheless all URLs end at that application form | 11:01 |
| leo_ | vgrade hi | 11:02 |
| vgrade | you were asking about gma500 | 11:02 |
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| leo_ | yes | 11:03 |
| leo_ | my tablet can not install meego-tablet | 11:04 |
| vgrade | only ivi images are built with emgd (GMA500) drivers | 11:04 |
| vgrade | we built a netbook image recently with EMGD drivers | 11:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | Jaffa: tbh I have no clue where and what launchpad actually is, and which URL to visit to "join" it | 11:04 |
| leo_ | Where can i found it? | 11:05 |
| tomeu | what worked for me was installing the netbook image, then one of the kernel adaptation images that included the emgd driver | 11:05 |
| vgrade | bug10738.openaos.org, look for nokia booklet | 11:05 |
| MeeGoBot | Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10738 nor, Undecided, ---, tero.kojo, NEED, Meego community ftp server or similar needed | 11:05 |
| leo_ | I want to try tablet ux.How can i build one. | 11:06 |
| vgrade | to build a tablet image, take the tablet ks and replace the kernel with intel-automotive-kernel and add emgd package. See the booklet ks as an example. | 11:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | anyway thanks anybody for your patience and help getting through this adventure | 11:06 |
| leo_ | OK. I will try.thanks | 11:07 |
| vgrade | np | 11:07 |
| vgrade | what tablet are youo working on? | 11:07 |
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| leo_ | The tablet device have not sell in market. | 11:09 |
| vgrade | ok, ok | 11:10 |
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| khertan | http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/unstable/beta/Fremantle_Update7_vs_Harmattan_Beta_content_comparison.html | 11:10 |
| flailingmonkey | again, I think Harmattan release has a smooth looking SMS/IM interface | 11:10 |
| flailingmonkey | it was definitely one of the best features of Maemo 5 | 11:11 |
| leo_ | We want to use meego. It is perfect. | 11:11 |
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| RST38h | khertan; OMG hildon is gone :) | 11:15 |
| khertan | hihi ... not a bad things | 11:15 |
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| khertan | but does QWidget is gone too ... | 11:16 |
| khertan | and it s only QML | 11:16 |
| khertan | ? | 11:16 |
| vgrade | leo_, tablet ux running on gma500 based device, http://www.youtube.com/user/vgrade100#p/u/10/WuJbWMsY3bE | 11:16 |
| khertan | this is the question | 11:16 |
| RST38h | khertan: Prolly not | 11:16 |
| leo_ | ok. i will see | 11:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'd not feel surprised to find QML way too heavy for embedded | 11:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | also seems a memory hog | 11:17 |
| Stskeeps | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvFwzyCknLg , DocScrutinizer | 11:17 |
| RST38h | Doc: Konttori says it is not | 11:17 |
| khertan | DocScrutinizer, the main qml problem is that currently it s too limited for use case | 11:17 |
| khertan | else it s didn't works so bad | 11:18 |
| RST38h | Doc: At least not until you start making a fool of yourself with JS | 11:18 |
| khertan | try to do syntax highlighting in qml | 11:18 |
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| vgrade | leo_, give me a shout if you need a hand. | 11:20 |
| leo_ | ok | 11:21 |
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| RST38h | Hmm...probably first time in history, Engadget commenters are actually *positive* about a freaking Nokia device | 11:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | (fremantle_vs_harmattan) "removed" doesn't mean we can't get that pkg/whatever anymore? | 11:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | just removed from stock image? | 11:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: probably a bad sign | 11:26 |
| vvaltone | RST38h, I just hope it really does have 1GB ram and not that "marketing" ram | 11:26 |
| RST38h | Doc: Ah, be positive for a day or so! :) | 11:27 |
| vvaltone | like they did with N900 | 11:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | swap isn't ram by any metrics ;-) | 11:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: being pessimistic guarantees a life with very few disappointments | 11:28 |
| vvaltone | beats me how they're going to get developers for their platform tho | 11:28 |
| RST38h | vvaltone: They did not. | 11:28 |
| vvaltone | DocScrutinizer, sure it is, even harddisks are ram | 11:28 |
| RST38h | Doc: Yea, can sign under every word | 11:28 |
| vvaltone | DocScrutinizer, atleast in loose definition | 11:28 |
| RST38h | vvaltone: I knew from the beginnign that it had 256MB SDRAM | 11:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | walhava: hmm the loose def isn't generally accepted though | 11:29 |
| RST38h | vvaltone: If you did not, it simply means you have not researched well enough | 11:29 |
| vvaltone | I never bought one | 11:29 |
| RST38h | Then it is not worth discussing. | 11:29 |
| vvaltone | there's just a few N900's at work | 11:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer | vvaltone: (damn that's two 'v') in nokia's marketing speak there's no ram anyway afaik, at least they happily mix up memory ans storage | 11:31 |
| julienf | N9 will be $660 Usd for 16gb and $749 Usd for 64gb | 11:32 |
| julienf | if you're interested :) | 11:32 |
| Stskeeps | julienf: [citation needed] | 11:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | and <infinite> for a N9 with a proper uSD slot :-/ | 11:32 |
| julienf | @smashpop (who is at the event): The Nokia N9 will be $660 Usd for 16gb and $749 Usd for 64gb | 11:33 |
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| julienf | DocScrutinizer: N950 for that | 11:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer | won't help for mass market | 11:33 |
| MSM1 | N900 wasn't really mass market? | 11:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I hope they got USB host right, so you could get away in holiday with an external reader for your movies on SD | 11:34 |
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| * millenomi lurks a little here given yesterday's announcements | 11:35 | |
| Stskeeps | welcome | 11:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | MSM1: at least N900 got >>>250 units on sale | 11:35 |
| millenomi | by the way: there are no hard dates on the new N9*s, right? | 11:35 |
| millenomi | yet | 11:35 |
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| MSM1 | DocScrutinizer: True :P | 11:36 |
| RST38h | Mooo Stskeeps | 11:36 |
| RST38h | Doc: You mean, 64GB is not enough? | 11:36 |
| MSM1 | RST38h: Choice is good | 11:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: I'm not sure about that, tell me if you're willing to copy a selection of your movies to device prior to your holidays | 11:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: also a very common and important feature is offloading videos taken by a *real | 11:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | * | 11:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | cam to some mass storage like N9 | 11:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | you'd need either SD slot or hostmode for that as well | 11:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I mean there's a whole lot of usecases where the device better is a 'host' rather than a 'gadget' | 11:39 |
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| RST38h | Doc: I *read*. | 11:40 |
| bkalinga | what command meego-sdk-qtcreator uses to upload the created .rpm package to the qemu and install it there | 11:40 |
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| hiemanshu | has the N900 eMMC bug been fixed yet? | 11:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | which bug? | 11:40 |
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| bkalinga | It uses /usr/lib/madde/linux-i686/madbin/rrpmbuild -bb myspec.spec to create the .rpm file | 11:41 |
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| hiemanshu | where installing it on the eMMC made it really really slow | 11:41 |
| * hiemanshu tries to find the bug | 11:41 | |
| DocScrutinizer | aah, nm | 11:41 |
| bkalinga | but after that how does it upload it to the qemu? | 11:41 |
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| hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=18295 | 11:43 |
| MeeGoBot | Bug 18295 nor, Medium, ---, carsten, NEW, [DE] [N900] eMMC performance is in some cases significantly worse than in Maemo | 11:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | thanks | 11:43 |
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| Stskeeps | javispedro: how much do you know about shaders and SGX? | 11:54 |
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| javispedro | Stskeeps: "a bit" :). anything more concrete? | 11:55 |
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| Stskeeps | javispedro: well, it seems to me like sgx requires indication of precision of something | 11:56 |
| javispedro | that is standard gles | 11:56 |
| Stskeeps | hmm | 11:56 |
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| javispedro | sgx maps the three precision reqs to a given registers width | 11:56 |
| Stskeeps | i really need to get a debugger to this stuff | 11:56 |
| Stskeeps | getting shader compilation errors from qt scenegraph | 11:57 |
| tomeu | debugging shaders is yuck | 11:57 |
| RST38h | ehlo javispedro | 11:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | hiemanshu: to me this seems a failure in test procedure rather than a meego kernel issue | 11:57 |
| javispedro | hello, rst38h | 11:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | hiemanshu: javispedro | 11:58 |
| hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: well I heard that was a big issue which is why I still haven't installed meego on my N900 | 11:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | err sorry hiemanshu | 11:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: hi! | 11:58 |
| hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: a lot of people do that :/ | 11:58 |
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| javispedro | stskeeps: get the pdf that is on the sgx sdk | 12:00 |
| javispedro | stskeeps: it does explain what do the precision reqs mean on sgx | 12:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer | hiemanshu: we got that bug in maemo where device effectively freezes on copying large files from uSD to eMMC | 12:00 |
| hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: how big is large files? | 12:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | if your swap is on same storage device where you want to copy a large file to, this is basically normal | 12:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer | big here was >500MB iirc | 12:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | YMMV | 12:02 |
| flailingmonkey | that's right, the swapping choked things | 12:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | probably depends on cache usage, swap status etc pp | 12:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer | it's really hard to unentangle swap usage and access to program text from any performance test done on same storage device | 12:04 |
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| BluesLee | n9's gpu is the same one as in the n900 | 12:08 |
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| Stskeeps | nah, better | 12:08 |
| odin_ | Hooray for MeeGo handsets! | 12:09 |
| TuOki^ | http://i.imgur.com/XZ6NK.jpg | 12:09 |
| Stskeeps | hah | 12:10 |
| pabs3 | haha | 12:10 |
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| BluesLee | Stskeeps: hmm ... in that case the people spread wrong informations on the n9's gpu | 12:16 |
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| javispedro | the people... | 12:17 |
| BluesLee | javispedro: in german http://bestboyz.de/nokia-n9/ | 12:18 |
| Stskeeps | BluesLee: n900 sgx can run on 110mhz, that one can run at 200mhz | 12:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ok, so RST38h is happy: some really nice bit from N9 specs: Audio Recording AAC stereo, 48kHz | 12:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer | (2 mic as well :-D ) | 12:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer | so decent bootlegs finally | 12:19 |
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| BluesLee | Stskeeps: okay, is it a Adreno 200 GPU? | 12:19 |
| toninikkanen | I wonder how long until meego-meego is ported to the N9 :) | 12:20 |
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| khertan | Nokia say disruptive ... but what is disruptiv in this n9 ? | 12:20 |
| visz | it crushes the dreams of a qwerty meego handset | 12:20 |
| javispedro | and your fingers! | 12:21 |
| Stskeeps | BluesLee: err. no | 12:21 |
| toninikkanen | it disrupts your dreams of a qwerty handset | 12:21 |
| X-Fade | khertan: distruptive is > N9. | 12:22 |
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| BluesLee | Stskeeps: okay, enough fud from me:-) | 12:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | khertan: god point | 12:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | good* | 12:23 |
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| khertan | lol | 12:24 |
| khertan | X-Fade, seriously it was in the event invitation, isn't it ? | 12:24 |
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| khertan | X-Fade, you mean next mobile after n9 ? or is n9 | 12:25 |
| X-Fade | khertan: Just saw Peter post that on talk :) | 12:25 |
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| khertan | X-Fade, ouch difficult to found many post in few time on talk :) | 12:26 |
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| khertan | http://www.nokiablog.ch/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/326932798.jpg <<< i like this one :) | 12:28 |
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| khertan | X-Fade, lol still not found the post :) | 12:29 |
| javispedro | khertan: who doesnt, but 250 only. | 12:29 |
| Stskeeps | (in the meego community device programme) | 12:29 |
| khertan | yep there is more at nokia if i understand well the qgil post | 12:30 |
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| khertan | oh it s a capacitive screen also ... :( | 12:31 |
| javispedro | but competing with oss developers just doesnt seem right :/ | 12:31 |
| Stskeeps | javispedro: can always sign up as a company then | 12:31 |
| Stskeeps | at launchpad | 12:32 |
| javispedro | when I bet launchpaders will get a larger number and we will see just a handful of commercial apps | 12:32 |
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| khertan | it s funny to see all post on talk saying that their prefer n950 than n9 due to keyboard | 12:32 |
| javispedro | massmarket likes the n9 though | 12:33 |
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| javispedro | so same as n900 will happen, probably new inflow of newbies. Nice I guess. Let's hope not to break all the magic with lack of updates! (again) ;) | 12:33 |
| khertan | updating sdk for harmattan is pretty slow :) | 12:33 |
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| Wizard | hi! | 12:35 |
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| BluesLee | good one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9CWB172FmU | 12:36 |
| Wizard | is there any HCL available? | 12:37 |
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| BluesLee | i guess MohammadAG may start a cssu where he puts landscape mode to the n9:-) hehe ... | 12:38 |
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| MohammadAG | Did I miss an announcement or something? | 12:39 |
| khertan | MohammadAG, it s seems :) | 12:39 |
| timoph | :) | 12:39 |
| BluesLee | MohammadAG: you missed nothing | 12:39 |
| khertan | MohammadAG, n9, no keyboard but nice device | 12:40 |
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| khertan | n950 named n9-devkit : but not sold, for "selected" dev only | 12:40 |
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| javispedro | is it fine to discuss n9 here or should we go back to under our bridges (-bar, cnxn)? | 12:40 |
| Wizard | i have an asus t101mt and i wonder if it's touchscreen will work with meego | 12:40 |
| khertan | and the good news : Hint: It's a 1 GB of RAM! Not 256MB... | 12:40 |
| MohammadAG | what was the RM680 called in the end? :P | 12:41 |
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| khertan | n950 aka n9-devkit | 12:41 |
| javispedro | Mohammandag: the elopmobile | 12:41 |
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| Termana | MohammadAG, I haven't seen any pictures of the N950, but I would say it's possible that this might be it | 12:41 |
| Termana | The consumer one is just N9 though | 12:41 |
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| khertan | Termana, the n950 flasher bin is nammed rm680 | 12:42 |
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| MohammadAG | and when's the N950 going out? | 12:43 |
| MohammadAG | actually, I'll just read some blogs and see what was announced :p | 12:43 |
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| Termana | MohammadAG, N950 you have to put in a developer application | 12:43 |
| Termana | MohammadAG, I haven't seen any release date for the N9 | 12:43 |
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| BluesLee | Termana: you mean i have to become a devloper to get a n950? hmmm ... | 12:44 |
| Termana | BluesLee, There has been a limited 250 run of N950s. You put in a developer application and get loaned one | 12:44 |
| Termana | Otherwise you buy an N9 | 12:44 |
| BluesLee | 250 is not much ... | 12:45 |
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| ramkrsna | Termana, N9 , its end of this year | 12:46 |
| ramkrsna | Termana, http://europe.nokia.com/find-products/devices/nokia-n9-00 | 12:46 |
| Termana | "end of this year", that's not a specific date though :p | 12:46 |
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| leinir | Q4 :P | 12:47 |
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| Termana | Listen, when you all buy N9s, do not buy blue or redish pink. That is just disgraceful. It only looks good in black :p | 12:48 |
| hiemanshu | well 250 for meego.com devs, and more for the launchpad and professional devs | 12:48 |
| BluesLee | hmm, not available in germany?! | 12:48 |
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| Tm_T | Termana: those are cyan and magenta | 12:49 |
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| Termana | Tm_T: nuh. Maybe the blue could be said to be cyan, but the other one is definitely not magenta | 12:50 |
| Termana | Magenta is more purpleish | 12:51 |
| Termana | Either way, get black | 12:51 |
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| Termana | Once you go black you can never... oh wait, I don't think that's in reference to phones | 12:52 |
| toninikkanen | uh, where do i apply for the n950 | 12:52 |
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| khertan | http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2011/06/nokia-n950-developer.jpg | 12:52 |
| Kaadlajk | it looks more magenta in person imo | 12:52 |
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| X-Fade | I think it is fuchsia color :) | 12:53 |
| TheBootroo | hi | 12:53 |
| TheBootroo | are you happy about brand new N9 guys? | 12:53 |
| Kaadlajk | X-Fade: isnt that the same thing :P | 12:53 |
| Termana | khertan, it is slightly disappointing they are not retailing the N950 | 12:53 |
| TheBootroo | Termana: i agree | 12:53 |
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| Termana | But I'm still happy about the N9, it looks great. | 12:54 |
| TheBootroo | for me perfect device would have been current N9 + N950 keyboard | 12:54 |
| javispedro | khertan: perphaps if the devkits are ugly like that one noone will want them and we might find a slot in the 250! | 12:54 |
| TheBootroo | yes it does | 12:54 |
| khertan | javispedro, hum ... i like it ... prefer it to the n9 :) | 12:55 |
| TheBootroo | i'm gonna buy N9 since it will be out, and my N900 will stay my developer & tester device | 12:55 |
| khertan | http://www.nokiablog.ch/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/326932798.jpg | 12:55 |
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| khertan | TheBootroo, if i can't get an n950 i ll probably stay with my n900 | 12:55 |
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| TheBootroo | khertan: i thought same thing but finally i changed : i requested for a n950 but will surely buy N9 | 12:56 |
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| Termana | Maybe if we each chip in a little and there's enough of us, they will do a special production run of N950s for us :p | 12:56 |
| Termana | Wishful thinking :p | 12:56 |
| toninikkanen | i wonder if i can somehow talk them into letting me keep this n950 prototype i've had laying around at the office ... | 12:56 |
| bkalinga | what command qtcreator uses to install a .rpm package to qemu | 12:57 |
| TheBootroo | khertan: where did you get this picture of a black N950 SWITCHED ON for hell's sake !! | 12:57 |
| TheBootroo | does it have curved screen too ? | 12:57 |
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| TheBootroo | if yes i definetely want this one !! | 12:57 |
| hena | nope | 12:58 |
| khertan | TheBootroo, it s not my picture : http://www.nokiablog.ch/ | 12:58 |
| hena | it doesn't have a curved screen | 12:58 |
| TheBootroo | khertan: i jknow but i asked on which news ? | 12:58 |
| khertan | TheBootroo, http://www.nokiablog.ch/first-view-of-a-black-nokia-n950-dev-device/3451/ | 12:59 |
| khertan | but no nfc | 12:59 |
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| khertan | worse compass | 12:59 |
| khertan | less memory than n9 | 12:59 |
| TheBootroo | really ? | 12:59 |
| khertan | source is http://twitpic.com/5enaym | 12:59 |
| TheBootroo | i dont care about compass though | 12:59 |
| thiago_home | same memory | 13:00 |
| TheBootroo | i need to put this website in my RSS reader :D | 13:00 |
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| thiago_home | both have 1 GB | 13:00 |
| javispedro | worse compass?? | 13:00 |
| thiago_home | yes, less accurate | 13:00 |
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| Termana | There was some table somewhere comparing them | 13:00 |
| TheBootroo | thiago_home: that what i beleive too | 13:00 |
| TheBootroo | thiago_home: do you hold one ? | 13:01 |
| khertan | TheBootroo, the release note of the n950 flasher : http://pastebin.com/0SWqx8JL | 13:01 |
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| khertan | thiago_home, nice to hear that it got 1Gb too | 13:01 |
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| khertan | and n950 have better screen ... or not ... depends if you prefer 4" or 3,9" oled :) | 13:02 |
| khertan | tft versus amoled | 13:02 |
| khertan | :) | 13:02 |
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| hena | is there a terminal for n950 somewhere? | 13:06 |
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| Stskeeps | javispedro: see anything wrong SGX-wise with these shaders? http://pastie.org/2100686 | 13:07 |
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| toninikkanen | hena: meego-terminal on gitorious :) | 13:07 |
| hena | cool | 13:08 |
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| hena | thanks | 13:08 |
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| javispedro | stskeeps:fragment shader does not have precision? | 13:16 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, that is what i thought odd | 13:16 |
| Stskeeps | is it required on GL but not GLES? | 13:17 |
| javispedro | gles requires it surely | 13:17 |
| javispedro | iirc its required for fragment shaders | 13:17 |
| Stskeeps | ok | 13:17 |
| javispedro | but not vertex | 13:17 |
| javispedro | vertex assumes max precision | 13:17 |
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| Stskeeps | so how would i fix that shader? | 13:19 |
| javispedro | add something like precision highp float on top of the fragment shader | 13:19 |
| javispedro | "precision highp float" I mean | 13:20 |
| Stskeeps | ok | 13:20 |
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| javispedro | same for any other used type, eg precision highp vec4 | 13:21 |
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| javispedro | (no, not required for vec4s =) ) | 13:22 |
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| thiago_home | TheBootroo: no, I have an earlier prototype | 13:25 |
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| Luca | sup | 13:36 |
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| Luca | does meego have a dlna app ? | 13:36 |
| Luca | only thing I was missing from the n9 specs tv out or dlna | 13:36 |
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| kavacha | warning: /var/cache/zypp/packages/1.2.0-oss/i586/btrfs-progs-0.19-13.1.i586.rpm: Header V3 RSA/SHA1 Signature, key ID 44e4155a: NOKEY | 13:44 |
| kavacha | even using "zypper --no-gpg-checks" | 13:44 |
| X-Fade | kavacha: Notice the 'warning' | 13:44 |
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| Luca | 473 people in the chan and no one can tell me if Meego does DLNA? | 13:46 |
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| X-Fade | Luca: No specific apps. | 13:46 |
| kavacha | thanks X-Fade: it is just the next lines "The package integrity check failed. This may be a problem with the repository or media. Try one of the following: | 13:47 |
| kavacha | - just retry previous command | 13:47 |
| kavacha | ..." | 13:47 |
| kavacha | seemed to suggest it did not succeed | 13:47 |
| kavacha | I had not tested if it actually installed :( | 13:47 |
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| Luca | is an update planned to integrate it? | 13:48 |
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| Stskeeps | Luca: #meego deals with the meego platform, you'd have to ask nokia about their differentation features | 13:49 |
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| Luca | right on. | 13:50 |
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| iekku | seems that feature requests meego 1.2 for DLNA are open | 13:50 |
| Termana | Well, I was going to answer his question | 13:50 |
| Termana | but whatever | 13:50 |
| Termana | For everyone else - the device details page shows TV Out | 13:50 |
| Termana | err... maybe he asked it in another channel | 13:51 |
| X-Fade | But that is blurry analog :) | 13:51 |
| Termana | Somewhere he said TV Out OR DNLA - too many channels talking about the N9 :p | 13:51 |
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| X-Fade | Anyway, gupnp and rygel can be installed easily. | 13:52 |
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| TheBootroo | thiago_home: an earlier proto of N9 or N950 ? | 13:53 |
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| lcuk | morning, looks like I slept through something | 13:54 |
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| pexi | http://press.nokia.com/wp-content/uploads/mediaplugin/doc/1-nokia-n9-data-sheet.pdf | 13:57 |
| TheBootroo | pronostics for release date of N9 ? | 13:57 |
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| pexi | when do we get N9 with hardware keyboard? or habtic display? | 14:08 |
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| Jaffa | pexi: The N9 does not have a hardware keyboard. The N950, available through developer channels - including the meego.com Community Device Programme - does, but has some other minor hardware differences as well (material, size, screen type, NFC) | 14:09 |
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| IcanCU | so its there | 14:17 |
| pexi | Jaffa, hope they change their strategy and put it on the market.. with metal casing :) | 14:17 |
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| X-Fade | pexi: polycarbonate for better reception :) | 14:18 |
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| IcanCU | all i am curious about is the price | 14:18 |
| pexi | its not a phone! | 14:18 |
| thiago_home | TheBootroo: earlier proto of N950 | 14:18 |
| X-Fade | pexi: 3G needs reception too :) | 14:18 |
| pexi | damn :) | 14:19 |
| IcanCU | i think they will charge just way too much for it to make a dent in the market | 14:19 |
| IcanCU | it has to be at least $150 cheaper then the galaxy s2 | 14:19 |
| IcanCU | and they will not do that | 14:19 |
| IcanCU | they will charge the same for a device with a screen thats less good, a single core processor and a smaller battery and way less apps | 14:20 |
| IcanCU | but its a very good phone though from what i can see | 14:21 |
| pexi | who cares about cpu if it has gpu :) | 14:21 |
| IcanCU | the galaxy s2 has a gpu | 14:21 |
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| Umeaboy | Hi! | 14:22 |
| IcanCU | its a very good looking phone too by the way | 14:22 |
| pexi | gladly they managed to put 1gb of memory | 14:22 |
| Umeaboy | Does it really matter WHICH Atom-CPU a tablet should have to make MeeGoo working? | 14:22 |
| IcanCU | are there any tablets running meego out there? | 14:23 |
| pexi | does that amoled need finger-touch or are gloves enough? | 14:24 |
| Umeaboy | IcanCU: The compability list shows that there are. | 14:24 |
| IcanCU | ok | 14:24 |
| IcanCU | have only seen prototypes | 14:25 |
| pexi | (because half of the year u r wearing gloves around here) | 14:25 |
| TheBootroo | thiago_home: did you please using the proto ? | 14:25 |
| thiago_home | TheBootroo: did I what? | 14:25 |
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| TheBootroo | thiago_home: was it pleasing to use the earlier n950 ? more than a N900 ? | 14:25 |
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| thiago_home | yes | 14:26 |
| TheBootroo | speed ? | 14:26 |
| TheBootroo | not to many bugs ? | 14:26 |
| TheBootroo | in fact, harmattan is really MeeGo Core 1.2 with just custom Desktop and theme and some nokia/ovi apps ? or really maemo 5 + updated packages + meeego appearance ? i mean could we in the future install meego apps on the N9 ? | 14:27 |
| Stskeeps | calling it maemo5 would be a shame, completely different architecture.. | 14:28 |
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| Umeaboy | Correct me if I'm wrong, but is there a development-version of MeeGo available? | 14:28 |
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| TheBootroo | Stskeeps: so its more meego than maemo | 14:28 |
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| TheBootroo | in facts nokia only made a great UI constructor ui for Core MeeGo basis,just like other meego vendors could do | 14:29 |
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| IcanCU | i like the open app drawer | 14:31 |
| IcanCU | the notification feed i'm not too sure about | 14:31 |
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| IcanCU | i'm worried about my missed call notification getting burried under rss and twitter and facebook notifications too soon | 14:32 |
| IcanCU | missed call notifications should not be equal to rss update on a phone imho | 14:33 |
| IcanCU | but i need to see it in action to form better judgement | 14:33 |
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| Umeaboy | Have to logout now. Take care. | 14:34 |
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| TheBootroo | IcanCU: hopefully sms and calls are separted : they appears on top of event timeline until you 'clear' the list | 14:34 |
| IcanCU | yes will need to see how the do that | 14:35 |
| IcanCU | they | 14:35 |
| TheBootroo | any ETA for avaibility ? 1 month ? 2 month ? christmas ? | 14:35 |
| TheBootroo | IcanCU: wait | 14:35 |
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| IcanCU | wait for what? | 14:35 |
| TheBootroo | IcanCU: yous ee it here : http://www.developer.nokia.com/swipe/ux/pages/PB_Navigating_the_Home_Screens.html | 14:36 |
| IcanCU | ah yes | 14:36 |
| IcanCU | looks good | 14:36 |
| TheBootroo | yes indeed | 14:36 |
| TheBootroo | look very very very cute | 14:36 |
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| IcanCU | are folders possible in the app drawer? | 14:37 |
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| TheBootroo | they remvoed it on maemo5 after update so i dont think they enabled it again on maemo 6/meego | 14:38 |
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| TheBootroo | thiago_home: but like on N900 would be possible with some apps like 'catorise' | 14:38 |
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| IcanCU | it would become a very long list without folders | 14:39 |
| TheBootroo | for my part i would rather prefer category separator instead of folders because it would induce less clicks | 14:39 |
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| TheBootroo | just separators between 'media' 'communication' 'productivity' and 'game' | 14:40 |
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| TheBootroo | would be sweet | 14:40 |
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| IcanCU | it looks very nice | 14:41 |
| TheBootroo | OMG yes | 14:41 |
| TheBootroo | ;-) | 14:41 |
| TheBootroo | and the website too | 14:41 |
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| TheBootroo | neeeeeed | 14:42 |
| TheBootroo | need a release date, no matter the price | 14:42 |
| kuzak | I guess you could have it behind some configuration key, send your merge requests to https://meego.gitorious.org/meegotouch/meegotouch-home :) | 14:42 |
| TheBootroo | kuzak: nokia N9 uses nokia's own UX, not default public UX from git repos | 14:43 |
| kidproquo__ | IcanCU, Just saw a video demo where they stated that email, sms and missed calls are listed above other stuff like twiter etc | 14:43 |
| IcanCU | yes i saw it | 14:43 |
| IcanCU | it looks nice | 14:44 |
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| kidproquo__ | cool, i got disconnected briefly between your question and when I saw the video | 14:44 |
| kidproquo__ | IcanCU, I hope you can strip all the facebook/twitter junk out completely without too much hassle | 14:45 |
| kuzak | TheBootroo, it used both, public code + closed plugins. It seems to me that the public part has the launcher, see the file names in https://meego.gitorious.org/meegotouch/meegotouch-home/trees/master/src/libmeegotouchhome | 14:45 |
| X-Fade | kidproquo__: Just don't have friends. Easy. | 14:45 |
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| TheBootroo | kuzak: i know nokia uses some meego basis, but the 3 views desktop is obviously not the default one (which is made of app grid with fiwed panel and pages) | 14:46 |
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| kidproquo__ | X-Fade, that can be arranged, but I don't want it to be like the situation with iOS where there are some useless apps that are provided that you can't get rid of | 14:46 |
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| X-Fade | kidproquo__: If you don't add your twitter account, it won't show up :) | 14:47 |
| kidproquo__ | X-Fade, good to hear | 14:47 |
| TheBootroo | how do we access XTerm in the N9 UI ? | 14:47 |
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| X-Fade | TheBootroo: By installing the terminal app? | 14:47 |
| TheBootroo | X-Fade: ok sweet | 14:48 |
| TheBootroo | i'm testing with my own | 14:48 |
| TheBootroo | ;-) | 14:48 |
| TheBootroo | (paper version of the website picture.... i dont own the real device, too bad.... can't wait -_- ) | 14:48 |
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| IcanCU | i hope someone is going to put this meego skin on android :P | 14:59 |
| MSM1 | Android bleh | 14:59 |
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| TheBootroo | MSM1: +1 | 15:00 |
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| TheBootroo | could you tell more about HDMI throught USB adapter ? | 15:01 |
| TheBootroo | is this a rumour ? | 15:01 |
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| SpeedEvil | In principle, if it supports USB host mode - or OTG - it could work | 15:02 |
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| javispedro | it does not have the powe for that | 15:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | it seems N9 doesn'T even have any hostmode, according to specs page | 15:04 |
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| TheBootroo | so Tv out is only poor Jack adapter ? N8 has HDMI | 15:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer | which is especially unfortunate as it also has no external storage slot | 15:04 |
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| IcanCU | no HDMI on the N9 is what i heard | 15:06 |
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| IcanCU | they really need to be selling this device at an agressive price pint for people to be remotely interested | 15:07 |
| SpeedEvil | Indeed. | 15:07 |
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| SpeedEvil | And they need to be selling it now. | 15:07 |
| IcanCU | yes | 15:07 |
| SpeedEvil | And have been doing the developer program 6 months ago | 15:08 |
| IcanCU | $400 off contact max | 15:08 |
| pebcak | lol | 15:08 |
| TheBootroo | 500 | 15:08 |
| pebcak | no way | 15:08 |
| IcanCU | the galaxy s2 is 550 here off contact | 15:08 |
| pebcak | people are still pissed off about the n900 | 15:08 |
| MSM1 | Lol | 15:08 |
| pebcak | :p | 15:08 |
| MSM1 | The N900 didn't even make it here :-( | 15:09 |
| TheBootroo | no hdmi, no sd card, no fmtx, no keyboard ---> no more than 500€ | 15:09 |
| IcanCU | no mor then 400 | 15:09 |
| lcuk | do capacitive screens work with scratch protectors? | 15:09 |
| pebcak | 500€ for that device? are you kidding? | 15:09 |
| TheBootroo | IcanCU: for 400, remove the NFC and compass | 15:09 |
| pebcak | lcuk yes | 15:09 |
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| lcuk | do they work with resistive overlay? | 15:09 |
| IcanCU | then the galaxy s2 is the better option | 15:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: depends | 15:10 |
| TheBootroo | lcuk: no need for protection since its gorilla glass | 15:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: usually not that good | 15:10 |
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| lcuk | see reasoning ^ | 15:10 |
| TheBootroo | IcanCU: galaxy is android shit | 15:10 |
| lcuk | and TheBootroo you were the one who assumed the device | 15:10 |
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| TheBootroo | lcuk: wut ? | 15:10 |
| pebcak | TheBootroo at least they already have a working market | 15:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: resistive overlay doesn't work definitely | 15:10 |
| pebcak | :P | 15:10 |
| IcanCU | android shit? | 15:10 |
| lcuk | I said capacitive, you assumed a specific thing :P | 15:10 |
| IcanCU | where is the argument in that? | 15:11 |
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| TheBootroo | IcanCU: android is fragmented java os | 15:11 |
| TheBootroo | = shit | 15:11 |
| katsrc | hey everyone | 15:11 |
| IcanCU | but | 15:11 |
| TheBootroo | meego is modular qt c++ os | 15:11 |
| pebcak | TheBootroo meego is a nonfragmented nothing right now | 15:11 |
| TheBootroo | = win | 15:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: ?? | 15:11 |
| katsrc | so i just saw the news that Nokia released a MeeGo phone | 15:11 |
| TheBootroo | apps are overratted | 15:11 |
| pebcak | not for consumers | 15:11 |
| MSM1 | ^ | 15:11 |
| IcanCU | its not like people are going to booting up and android phone and say hey | 15:12 |
| katsrc | is this because it's the last phone so they went all out? | 15:12 |
| IcanCU | this feels really fragmented | 15:12 |
| TheBootroo | millions of apps are just there to hide lack of basis functionnalities out a the box | 15:12 |
| IcanCU | like which basic functionality? | 15:12 |
| IcanCU | name just one | 15:12 |
| pebcak | TheBootroo like the nonworking keys in libsocial? | 15:12 |
| pebcak | :D | 15:12 |
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| TheBootroo | IcanCU: read all audio / video formats, connect almost all web service without additional apps, read office and pdf files | 15:13 |
| TheBootroo | IcanCU: is it enough | 15:13 |
| pebcak | TheBootroo but the all audio/video depends on the vendor rigfht? | 15:13 |
| lcuk | question about n9: | 15:13 |
| IcanCU | all audio formats i aree | 15:13 |
| pebcak | pure meego tablet can't even play mp3 or flac | 15:13 |
| lcuk | how can I flick through the photo collection | 15:13 |
| IcanCU | it can read office apps in google docs | 15:13 |
| lcuk | I see some videos | 15:13 |
| pebcak | ^^ | 15:13 |
| IcanCU | same with pdf | 15:13 |
| lcuk | and people try flicking through like normal | 15:13 |
| lcuk | and the system flicking overtaks | 15:14 |
| lcuk | overtakes | 15:14 |
| TheBootroo | IcanCU: oh yeah is see, i need to send my docs over the web to read them in google docs --> pityfull | 15:14 |
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| IcanCU | i have no probs with that | 15:14 |
| IcanCU | and there are many free doc viewers | 15:14 |
| TheBootroo | you don't always have good connection for that | 15:15 |
| TheBootroo | IcanCU: that you need to know and download | 15:15 |
| pebcak | TheBootroo where is a ebookreader? | 15:15 |
| IcanCU | yes | 15:15 |
| IcanCU | but most andrid deviced come with those build in | 15:15 |
| TheBootroo | pebcak: digia made one i saw last week | 15:15 |
| pebcak | and if apps are overrated, why is there the almost empty intel appup? | 15:15 |
| IcanCU | htc sony and samsig all build this on | 15:15 |
| TheBootroo | pebcak: i will find the link | 15:15 |
| TheBootroo | pebcak: for hype | 15:15 |
| pebcak | TheBootroo bullshit | 15:16 |
| bkalinga | I can see this "Installing package to device..." in Qt creator output while deploying ..can I do that from my command prompt? | 15:16 |
| pebcak | :) | 15:16 |
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| TheBootroo | pebcak: already intoxicated with Apple'istic madness about 'apps apps apps apps' that gained android and WP7 too | 15:17 |
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| MSM1 | applications* | 15:17 |
| TheBootroo | pebcak: meego is all about modularity and plugins, no need to multiplicate apps that do barely the same thing with a few difference, just do a plugin for a standard program | 15:18 |
| pebcak | TheBootroo nothing to do with apple | 15:18 |
| TheBootroo | pebcak: that is apple who started this 'an app for that' paradigm | 15:18 |
| TheBootroo | and that is bullshit | 15:18 |
| pebcak | TheBootroo I had "apps" long before apple | 15:18 |
| pebcak | apt-get away :P | 15:19 |
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| TheBootroo | i prefer having a 'communication program' with plugins for skype msn facebook gtalk etc ... rather than having 10 different lists of contacts/messages/Statuses | 15:19 |
| TheBootroo | pebcak: i know apt get too | 15:19 |
| MSM1 | yum* | 15:19 |
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| TheBootroo | pebcak: but why the fuck would we need 5 different video player on a PHONE | 15:20 |
| pebcak | TheBootroo that's still not the point, the point is, meego still does not provide all the functionality I like | 15:20 |
| TheBootroo | MSM1: yum yum ? | 15:20 |
| TheBootroo | pebcak: like which one ? | 15:20 |
| TheBootroo | pebcak: tell me just one ? | 15:20 |
| MSM1 | TheBootroo: If you wanted ;-) | 15:20 |
| lcuk | bbl | 15:20 |
| TheBootroo | MSM1: i do i do i do | 15:20 |
| pebcak | TheBootroo why oh why do we have 5 des, 50 window managers and 100 mail programs in linux/unix userland | 15:21 |
| pebcak | we just need one | 15:21 |
| pebcak | right? | 15:21 |
| MSM1 | pebcak: Because choice is good | 15:21 |
| TheBootroo | pebcak: i wondered the same, it annoys new users | 15:21 |
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| lcuk | choice is only good if the options are tasty | 15:21 |
| pebcak | MSM1 try to explain that to TheBootroo | 15:21 |
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| lcuk | walk into a sweetshop with hundreds of jars | 15:21 |
| lcuk | you will go and find the one you ate as a kid | 15:22 |
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| TheBootroo | pebcak: i don't need explanantions, i always hated too many fragmentation and redundance | 15:22 |
| pebcak | lcuk nah, those aren't around anymore | 15:22 |
| pebcak | :| | 15:22 |
| lcuk | pebcak, I know of a few | 15:22 |
| lcuk | there is usually one in each large shopping centre | 15:22 |
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| lcuk | bustling with folks | 15:22 |
| pebcak | TheBootroo I would say you are far closer to apple than I am | 15:22 |
| TheBootroo | sry | 15:23 |
| TheBootroo | double post | 15:23 |
| pebcak | lcuk they aren't made anymore | 15:23 |
| lcuk | pebcak, what aren't? | 15:23 |
| lcuk | sweetshops? | 15:23 |
| pebcak | the sweets of my childhood :| | 15:23 |
| pebcak | *sniff* | 15:23 |
| lcuk | what are they? | 15:23 |
| pebcak | east german stuff :D | 15:23 |
| TheBootroo | pebcak: i dont want to limit options like apple, just regroup them to facilitate navigation and managing | 15:23 |
| pebcak | TheBootroo oh, but you do | 15:24 |
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| TheBootroo | pebcak: not necessarely | 15:24 |
| pebcak | TheBootroo the digia reader is also only avaible for vendors afaik | 15:25 |
| TheBootroo | but for example on my N900 i always prefered using gtalk integration for default conversation program than installing PIdgin or other external client that wouldn't be well integrated with the system backbone frameworks and services | 15:25 |
| pebcak | so what do I do with my current meego device? | 15:25 |
| TheBootroo | pebcak: give it to me | 15:26 |
| MSM1 | Well integrated software is a must for any OS | 15:26 |
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| TheBootroo | i know what to do with it | 15:26 |
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| pebcak | TheBootroo blubb, you know what I meant | 15:26 |
| pebcak | and can the default do otr, encryption and whatnot? | 15:26 |
| TheBootroo | MSM1: yes so if we create a full app for each need, we can't integrate, just duplicate, we need grouping | 15:27 |
| TheBootroo | OTR ? | 15:27 |
| TheBootroo | pebcak: read that http://www.developer.nokia.com/swipe/ux/pages/Development_Options.html | 15:27 |
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| * Aranel w00t, Nokia N9 looks awesome! (just needs a qwerty keyboard :|) | 15:28 | |
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| pebcak | TheBootroo forget about it, I guess I'll leave you to your "choice is bad"-paradigm | 15:29 |
| Aranel | btw, I cant find a benchmark between A8 (N900) and OMAP3630 (N9), anyone know a credible source on this? | 15:29 |
| TheBootroo | pebcak: choice is not bad but i think 'apps apps apps apps apps' madness is bad | 15:29 |
| Stskeeps | Aranel: OMAP3430 vs OMAP3630 | 15:29 |
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| Stskeeps | Aranel: not A8 | 15:29 |
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| hesetys | both are cortex A8 cores | 15:29 |
| MSM1 | applications* | 15:29 |
| pebcak | TheBootroo apps is just a fucking word | 15:29 |
| TheBootroo | true | 15:29 |
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| RST38h | Hey araster | 15:30 |
| Aranel | Stskeeps: okay ^^ | 15:30 |
| tmpsantos | anyone using meego latest image + qemu? | 15:30 |
| TheBootroo | pebcak: yes the only fuckin word customers have in their mouth | 15:30 |
| Aranel | hesetys: does it mean it performs similar to a OC'd N9? | 15:30 |
| Aranel | N900* | 15:30 |
| pebcak | if you get your "application" via intelapp or yum is completely irrelevant | 15:30 |
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| hesetys | for number cpu intensive things it should be | 15:30 |
| hesetys | s/number// | 15:31 |
| infobot | hesetys meant: for cpu intensive things it should be | 15:31 |
| javispedro | Aranel: slightly better. you will notice larger ram more than cpu. | 15:31 |
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| Aranel | ^^ sure I will, 1gb o.O | 15:32 |
| pebcak | anyone got a n950? | 15:33 |
| pebcak | :D | 15:33 |
| TheBootroo | pebcak: thiago_home had a proto | 15:33 |
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| TheBootroo | did someone had a proto of the N9 ? | 15:33 |
| MSM1 | ;-) | 15:34 |
| hena | apparently it's classified | 15:34 |
| TheBootroo | MSM1: you ? | 15:34 |
| thiago_home | I've seen many in the office | 15:34 |
| thiago_home | but I don't have one | 15:34 |
| * MSM1 hides | 15:34 | |
| thiago_home | I have a proto of the N950 | 15:34 |
| TheBootroo | thiago_home: you are lucky one | 15:34 |
| hena | so if i did have one, i can't talk about it. :) | 15:34 |
| TheBootroo | MSM1: gimme your (soul) N9 | 15:34 |
| pebcak | would prefer the n950 over the n9 I guess | 15:35 |
| hena | yep | 15:35 |
| TheBootroo | hena: now it has been officialised, NDA does not stays right ? | 15:35 |
| TheBootroo | i would like working at nokia | 15:35 |
| Aranel | PowerVR SGX530. :| exactly same as N900. o.o | 15:36 |
| lcuk | TheBootroo, an NDA can only be cleared by the party involved | 15:36 |
| RST38h | TheBootroo: Good troll! =) | 15:36 |
| TheBootroo | ATM i work in a french company that does Qt dev but no exciting smartphone projects | 15:36 |
| MSM1 | I doubt nokia will exist for much longer | 15:36 |
| TheBootroo | lcuk: too bad | 15:37 |
| pebcak | a workbuddy worked for nokia til june :D | 15:37 |
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| MSM1 | Also TheBootroo I have no soul (N9) | 15:37 |
| * timoph wonders if this whole conversation could be taken to #meego-bar | 15:37 | |
| pebcak | he is very happy to have left | 15:37 |
| TheBootroo | pebcak: what did he saw O.o | 15:37 |
| TheBootroo | MSM1: damn | 15:37 |
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| povlinski | i think n8 and n9 are some of the best looking devices | 15:38 |
| pebcak | TheBootroo hehe, he was a linuxadmin there, nothing to exciting I guess, but they were constantly short of admins | 15:38 |
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| the_lord | Hi! anyone here knows if the N9 will have rootable meego? | 16:04 |
| the_lord | as in: I can install gnome on the phone | 16:04 |
| * pebcak giggles | 16:04 | |
| alterego | the_lord: if you can get the packages, sure. | 16:04 |
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| the_lord | alterego: as long as it's ARM, if I can't get them, I'll make them | 16:05 |
| the_lord | :) | 16:05 |
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| alterego | That was sort of my point :P | 16:05 |
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| bkalinga | how can i check qt included in meego sdk is a debug build or release build? | 16:07 |
| rcherian | is this the place for QML discussions ? | 16:07 |
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| bkalinga | rcherian:#qt-qml | 16:08 |
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| rcherian | thanks bkalinga | 16:09 |
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| povlinski | a n9 with thinkoutside stowaway wouldn't be so bad | 16:11 |
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| alterego | An N9 with an N900 tethered to it wouldn't be so bad :P | 16:13 |
| alterego | I can imagine a bracket, that allows you to mod an N9 on to the top of the N900 | 16:14 |
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| toninikkanen | alterego: aaargh :) | 16:14 |
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| povlinski | alterego: how about a little case for n9 with a keyboard cover | 16:15 |
| povlinski | folds out like mini-laptop | 16:15 |
| MSM1 | povlinski: Im sure there will be | 16:15 |
| TheBootroo | povlinski: i was going to think the same thing : a leather case with integrated bluetooth keyboard for N9 | 16:15 |
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| TheBootroo | MSM1: u serius ? | 16:15 |
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| MSM1 | Perhaps a 3rd party one | 16:16 |
| SpeedEvil | TheBootroo: there is a little case for the iphone 4 with a keyboard on a slide. | 16:16 |
| TheBootroo | or a mini-netbook-like dock just as the Asus Transformer : would be great : then its foldable not slidable | 16:16 |
| TheBootroo | SpeedEvil: didn't know | 16:17 |
| jrayhawk | Haha that's a pretty cool idea. | 16:17 |
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| SpeedEvil | http://www.dealextreme.com/p/ultrathin-bluetooth-slide-out-keyboard-hard-case-for-apple-iphone-4-black-65669 | 16:18 |
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| TheBootroo | I like the dock idea : we could pack hmdi usb and battery in the dock | 16:18 |
| aissen | So N9 is really *not using* MeeGo but Maemo : http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/unstable/beta/Fremantle_Update7_vs_Harmattan_Beta_content_comparison.html ? | 16:18 |
| clbr | SpeedEvil: this is cheap, is it actually working? | 16:19 |
| andre__ | aissen, so where does your link state that? | 16:19 |
| povlinski | http://www.gizmag.com/nuu-mini-key-iphone-4-slide-out-keyboard/16341/picture/120517/ | 16:19 |
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| andre__ | aissen, the package names? | 16:20 |
| SpeedEvil | clbr: I presume so - I haven't bought one, as I have no iphone 4 | 16:20 |
| aissen | andre__: hum, deb* packages ? | 16:20 |
| javispedro | deb packages! the end of the world! it clearly means it is a entirely different distro! </irony> | 16:20 |
| aissen | javispedro: how else do you define a distro ? | 16:21 |
| andre__ | yeah, if it's deb packages it's probably even Debian instead of Maemo now! *shudder* | 16:21 |
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| Jaffa | aissen: The API on which the apps are written | 16:21 |
| andre__ | aissen, components and API? | 16:21 |
| javispedro | aissen: I define it by who upstream is. | 16:21 |
| Jaffa | aissen: The build system which turns them into something installable | 16:21 |
| Jaffa | aissen: apps.meego.com | 16:21 |
| aissen | Jaffa: yeah, how do you define Fedora APIs ? | 16:21 |
| Jaffa | aissen: Why do I give a f*ck about Fedora? | 16:22 |
| aissen | well, we're talking distros | 16:22 |
| povlinski | SpeedEvil: maybe this would be better http://mobilitydigest.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/typetop.jpg | 16:22 |
| TheBootroo | aissen: greatly instructive page kthx | 16:22 |
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| Jaffa | aissen: If I write an app with Qt, I can target Harmattan & MeeGo with the same code (modulo MeeGo UX/Qt Quick Components); I can target Maemo 5 easily and Symbian straightforwardly | 16:22 |
| aissen | I've seen that N9 is "API compatible" with Meego 1.2, which means basically they have Qt packages… | 16:22 |
| lardman | afternoon, I hear something exciting has happened during my house move | 16:23 |
| andre__ | lardman, just yet another product, I think. | 16:23 |
| Jaffa | aissen: If I then take my tarball and upload it to COBS on meego.com, and get an RPM for MeeGo-compliant devices and a deb for Harmattan, and it appears on apps.meego.com - why do I care? | 16:23 |
| fiferboy | Hey lardman | 16:23 |
| lcuk | yes lardman I was able to use mbarcode and extract a 2d one before person in front of me with an iphone | 16:23 |
| * lcuk calls that a win | 16:23 | |
| aissen | still, it's *not* MeeGo under the hood. It's not using core LF repos. | 16:23 |
| Jaffa | aissen: Correct. | 16:24 |
| lardman | lcuk: so it works on the new device? cool | 16:24 |
| lcuk | lardman, n900 | 16:24 |
| Jaffa | aissen: However, there are very few MeeGo apps right now. I bet within 2 weeks of N950s being shipped there'll be more Harmattan apps than MeeGo apps. Do you still want to keep a distinction then? ;-) | 16:24 |
| lardman | lcuk: with Meego, good good | 16:24 |
| lcuk | alterego was saying "oh its on xyz device" I said simon already coded it ages ago on n900 :P | 16:24 |
| aissen | Jaffa: I personnaly don't care. I use both .deb and .rpm based distros and I prefer the former. | 16:25 |
| TheBootroo | does fenix-meegotouch package represent the new webkit browser ? | 16:25 |
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| aissen | I find it funny that everyone out there thinks it's MeeGo's first step on handsets. | 16:25 |
| fiferboy | I don't think the switch from deb to rpm should be a showstopper for anyone | 16:25 |
| Jaffa | aissen: I care about the overall experience. If that's good, but RPM, on MeeGo - fine. If it's good, but deb, on Debian/Ubuntu/Maemo and Harmattan, fine :-) | 16:25 |
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| ali1234 | Jaffa: if the quality of harmatten apps is equivalent to the quality of fremantle apps, then i would say meego can do without them | 16:26 |
| aissen | Jaffa: true. | 16:26 |
| Jaffa | aissen: This *is* big for MeeGo. It will "prove" to the industry that you can build a compelling mass-market consumer device on MeeGo. (Even if we know it's Harmattan & deb rather than MeeGo & rpm) | 16:26 |
| aissen | fiferboy: it's not, still IMO it isn't the same OS. | 16:26 |
| aissen | Jaffa: the proof will therefore *not* be complete. | 16:26 |
| fiferboy | aissen: I agree and I don't think that can be disputed | 16:26 |
| Jaffa | ali1234: Could you point to your excellent contributions, either apps; bug reports or feedback? :-p | 16:27 |
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| TheBootroo | aissen: all said when meego was annouced that dep would have been better than rpm : at least here they get what they wanted.... | 16:27 |
| javispedro | aissen: I do not understand why you center on deb vs rpm when it's just a part of the stack. the larger part (in manhours) is meegotouch and user space apps. ask nokia. | 16:27 |
| ali1234 | Jaffa: yes actually i coudl, it will take a while to compile it all though | 16:27 |
| fiferboy | And it is unfortunate that it is not trivial to change from packagine rpm to deb | 16:27 |
| javispedro | fiferboy: obs should "automate" that away from you (last time I heard) | 16:27 |
| Jaffa | aissen: It won't matter to the industry. So far, MeeGo's reference UXes are - frankly - laughable. | 16:27 |
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| ali1234 | Jaffa: however, the biggest contribution i made was not filling the fremantle repos with poor quality ports of sortware from desktop distros | 16:28 |
| Jaffa | javispedro: Mmm. As long as the SDK provides the right metadata. It goes a long way, but you still have to edit debian/control manually for description etc. | 16:28 |
| fiferboy | javispedro: In which direction? Deb to RPM? | 16:28 |
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| Jaffa | fiferboy: Either way. The *aim* is to define the common metadata in Qt Creator and have it upload it to COBS and you get deb & RPM out | 16:29 |
| aissen | javispedro: it's a core part of the stack. I think it shouldn't be named MeeGo, since everyone suffered (or not) through the move to RPMs, and Nokia didn't even bother. | 16:29 |
| lcuk | and sis and installshield | 16:29 |
| lcuk | Jaffa, ^ | 16:29 |
| aissen | TheBootroo: indeed | 16:29 |
| fiferboy | Jaffa: I don't know how I missed that news. It should certainly be possible. | 16:29 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: Well, you don't get the SIS from COBS; but yes :) | 16:29 |
| aissen | Jaffa: I agree to you statement about MeeGo's reference UXes | 16:30 |
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| lcuk | the central point about packaging metadata is strong and right | 16:30 |
| Jaffa | aissen: Not calling it MeeGo *will* hurt MeeGo more than having a sibling out there with debs | 16:30 |
| aissen | Jaffa: the alternative would be a proprietary UX from Nokia ? | 16:30 |
| lcuk | what builds the packages is not important | 16:30 |
| aissen | Jaffa: yes, that's the point. The core point of MeeGo was sharing "distribution" and "core stack" resources. It seems like it never happened. | 16:31 |
| Jaffa | aissen: The suggestion has always been that vendors would build their own differentiating UX. Nokia are the first to really do that in a big way | 16:31 |
| TheBootroo | aissen: intel's tablet ux is not that bad | 16:31 |
| Jaffa | aissen: Err, go and wc how much Nokia code is in MeeGo 1.2 | 16:31 |
| aissen | TheBootroo: yep, if you happen to be running the latest and greatest and succeded in upgrading to it. | 16:31 |
| Jaffa | aissen: The core programming technologies are Qt & QML. | 16:31 |
| Jaffa | TheBootroo: It doesn't hold up - in any way - to Android or iOS, though. | 16:31 |
| aissen | Jaffa: I know that. Still, just like .debs and rpms do not define a distro, neither does Qt&QML. | 16:32 |
| lcuk | Jaffa, do you still want to be on the tsg? | 16:32 |
| TheBootroo | Jaffa: i find tablet ux panels better than ipad OS | 16:32 |
| TheBootroo | or honeycomb | 16:32 |
| Jaffa | aissen: Except the MeeGo API (largely) *is* the Qt API. | 16:32 |
| Jaffa | TheBootroo: The concept is promising | 16:32 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: If I can add value. | 16:33 |
| Jaffa | aissen: And applications can only be MeeGo-compliant if they're written to the MeeGo API (not whatever packages are shipped with MeeGo) | 16:33 |
| aissen | Jaffa: not exactly true, IÂ see gtk is installed by default. | 16:33 |
| lcuk | well openly discussing many pieces has influenced many things we know that value | 16:33 |
| Jaffa | aissen: Gtk+ is not part of the MeeGo API | 16:33 |
| * lcuk sees his influences in n9 | 16:33 | |
| Jaffa | aissen: A MeeGo-compliant application should be trivially repackagable at build time to target Harmattan. | 16:34 |
| aissen | Jaffa: but you just said whatever is packaged ? | 16:34 |
| Jaffa | aissen: The MeeGo API is *not* defined by the packages shipped. It's a subset of those. | 16:34 |
| Jaffa | aissen: Some are "platform" | 16:35 |
| javispedro | lcuk: handwriting everywhere? ;) | 16:35 |
| aissen | Jaffa: can you point to any document regarding the MeeGo APIÂ (I'm interested in the general policy) and languages ? | 16:35 |
| lcuk | javispedro, graffiti wall app view actually | 16:35 |
| lcuk | handtyping will come later :) | 16:35 |
| javispedro | btw | 16:35 |
| javispedro | lcuk: noteslate guys said june 29 release date | 16:35 |
| Jaffa | aissen: http://wiki.meego.com/images/MeeGo-Compliance-Spec-1.0.99.5.pdf | 16:35 |
| lcuk | cool | 16:35 |
| Greatgib | Jaffa: from my point of view, for nokia, meego is only the QT Api so app can run on symbian, meego, maemo, windows? but this is just the framework, not a distribution ... | 16:36 |
| aissen | Jaffa: thanks, already found that document, never took the time to read it. | 16:36 |
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| Jaffa | aissen: See section 3.4 | 16:36 |
| lcuk | javispedro, we should get meego running on it | 16:36 |
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| lcuk | tagging on 10" device is awesome | 16:36 |
| * fiferboy is impressed with the QUANTITY of Harmattan documentation | 16:36 | |
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| fiferboy | Now I have to take a look at the quality | 16:36 |
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| Jaffa | fiferboy: The icon guidelines are pretty specific :-) | 16:36 |
| javispedro | lcuk: wait until they show off hardware ;) | 16:36 |
| mikhas | fiferboy, :-) | 16:36 |
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| lcuk | javispedro, yeah | 16:37 |
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| javispedro | with luck it might fill in the void left empty by the n9 being capacitive | 16:37 |
| lcuk | Jaffa, how are apps going to follow multiple ux guidelines | 16:37 |
| lcuk | I see photo app in harmattan | 16:37 |
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| lcuk | and people try swiping through photos | 16:37 |
| javispedro | how are qml apps going to follow ux guidelines at all ;) | 16:37 |
| lcuk | and end up swiping through system | 16:37 |
| lcuk | javispedro, just wait until qml goes beyond the rectangle | 16:38 |
| mikhas | javispedro, that's left as an exercise | 16:38 |
| Jaffa | ...and what about resolving the MeeGo UX Components & Qt Quick Components mess | 16:38 |
| mikhas | or you just use ... LMT :-D | 16:38 |
| lcuk | lol | 16:38 |
| fiferboy | javispedro: Harmattan Components? :) | 16:38 |
| fiferboy | We need more components! | 16:38 |
| mikhas | Jaffa, well, which components do you prefer now, after this announcement? | 16:38 |
| javispedro | dunno, I used to believe the plan was to just call it a day and make no guidelines at all =) | 16:39 |
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| Jaffa | mikhas: I've not looked at the API in depth for either. But as fiferboy says, the Harmattan ones have good docs | 16:39 |
| mikhas | Jaffa, some of the apps you could see in the videos were in fact using QML | 16:39 |
| fiferboy | I'm a little miffed at potentially having to write FOUR interfaces to my programs | 16:39 |
| lcuk | bbl family | 16:39 |
| mikhas | fiferboy, you should have thought about that before welcoming your new QML overlords | 16:40 |
| lcuk | fiferboy, dont forget that qt works on windows too | 16:40 |
| Jaffa | fiferboy: I can imagine a common API between MeeGo & Qt Components emerging pretty quickly, if the devs don't do it themselves | 16:40 |
| mikhas | Jaffa, please do it. | 16:40 |
| lcuk | Jaffa, api involving sed | 16:40 |
| lcuk | to rename the qml elements ;) | 16:40 |
| fiferboy | lcuk: I used to have one interface for Linux Desktop, N900, N810 and Windows | 16:40 |
| mikhas | "Qt Community Components" | 16:40 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: Or even just the "import" | 16:40 |
| lcuk | fiferboy, I have same apps running on n8x0 n900 ideapad | 16:41 |
| aissen | Jaffa: se | 16:41 |
| TheBootroo | for me its the original MeegoTouchFramework, based on QGraphicsView + SVG + CSS, instead of QML that i horror | 16:41 |
| lcuk | my 810 is a calendar ;) | 16:41 |
| Jaffa | mikhas: I'll probably do something for Hermes if no-one else has by then | 16:41 |
| fiferboy | lcuk: Yes, the IdeaPad works fine with a generic interface too | 16:41 |
| mikhas | lcuk, your UI's dont follow any of the platforms' UX though ;-) | 16:41 |
| aissen | Jaffa: (sorry) section 3.1.3 seems clear about RPM | 16:41 |
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| lcuk | mikhas, will do soon, I have qt prototypes :) | 16:41 |
| Jaffa | aissen: Yes - I was refering to the bit about APIs. | 16:41 |
| Jaffa | aissen: And stated that a source tarball could target both through the Community OBS | 16:42 |
| lcuk | mikhas, grainy but including nokia pure on qt simulator http://liqbase.net/20110410_001.jpg | 16:43 |
| aissen | Jaffa: seems like not anyone can use the community OBS | 16:43 |
| Jaffa | aissen: ? | 16:43 |
| Jaffa | aissen: You ask for an account from X-Fade or lbt_away | 16:43 |
| Jaffa | aissen: You promise not to be evil. | 16:43 |
| Jaffa | aissen: You get account. | 16:43 |
| Jaffa | aissen: You upload software. | 16:44 |
| fiferboy | It looks like they are going to be pushing the developer program for the N950 through very quickly | 16:44 |
| lcuk | aissen, with a nice simple front end cobs can be as easy as maemo extras upload | 16:44 |
| fiferboy | Which is good | 16:44 |
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| aissen | Jaffa: I know, but IÂ fail to see that scaling to thousands of devs. | 16:44 |
| Jaffa | aissen: Obviously the application process can be streamlined and scaled (and changed) over time | 16:45 |
| SpeedEvil | Indeed. We clone X-fade and lbt_away. | 16:45 |
| aissen | BTW, I keep criticizing, but I think 1/ MeeGo is the way forward 2/ N9 is a good phone whatever distro it's based on 3/ Community OBS seems like a nice service. | 16:45 |
| TheBootroo | aissen: i totally agree your statement above | 16:46 |
| Termana | fiferboy, what makes you say that? | 16:47 |
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| Jaffa | Termana: The fact you've only got a week to apply? | 16:47 |
| TheBootroo | to be ideal phone, N9 lacks USB host, HDMI, SD card, keyboard, bluetooth 4, LTE, and Stantum Multitouch Resistive Screen, but it's neverless the best phone out there | 16:47 |
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| fiferboy | Termana: http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=3597 | 16:47 |
| TheBootroo | fiferboy: already done for me | 16:47 |
| fiferboy | Deadline of June 28, but they may send out devices for "clear cases" before the deadline | 16:48 |
| TheBootroo | waiting and hoping a N950 | 16:48 |
| fiferboy | I think they are taking the right approach by having the program open immediately after the announcement | 16:48 |
| lamikr | Does anybody know a spectacle/yaml syntax for preventing a stripping of binary? | 16:48 |
| SpeedEvil | Oooh! Clear cases! Transparent is cool! | 16:48 |
| fiferboy | Although, I don't think there is really an alternative :) | 16:48 |
| fiferboy | Does anyone know anything about the developer program selection process? | 16:49 |
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| Andy80 | hi :) | 16:51 |
| khertan | Aranel, the main problem of n900 is memory ... you will see a great diff with more memory | 16:52 |
| khertan | ouch the lag | 16:52 |
| khertan | :) | 16:52 |
| Andy80 | I'm running the lastes Nokia SDK and I've installed the Harmattan target using the Updater. Now I've created a new Harmattan project (a simple Hello World). When I want to run it, it asks me for a device... of course I don't have and I'd like to use the Similator/Emulator or whatever... how do I configure it? | 16:52 |
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| khertan | fiferboy, cat /dev/random | 16:53 |
| khertan | ? | 16:53 |
| khertan | fiferboy, probably people having already post meego apps | 16:53 |
| Aranel | :) A9 would be awesome anyway, maybe in a future device they'll use it instead. | 16:53 |
| khertan | Andy80, change target | 16:53 |
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| fiferboy | khertan: Yeah, probably right. They have a whole spot for previous Maemo/MeeGo/open source apps | 16:55 |
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| Andy80 | khertan: I've "MeeGo 1.2 Harmattan API" and "Harmattan Platform API". Both give me that error. Maybe I'm doing it wrong. Where do I change it? | 16:56 |
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| khertan | Andy80, don't know i ve qemu not launch error | 16:59 |
| khertan | so ... probably not the best person to help you :) | 16:59 |
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| Andy80 | khertan: oh I found it, nope :) | 16:59 |
| fiferboy | I can't wait until I have to make a "Squircle" for my application icon | 17:00 |
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| Andy80 | khertan: I forgot to setup it inside Options :P | 17:01 |
| toninikkanen | fiferboy: hahah, gotta love them squircles | 17:01 |
| * fiferboy tries to find out to make a squircle | 17:02 | |
| fiferboy | Huh, turns out it is not nearly as made up as it sounds :) | 17:02 |
| toninikkanen | one way is to get a squircle mask file (like a PNG with transparencies set) then run it through with imagemagick | 17:02 |
| hiemanshu | is meego on the N900 (eMMC) install really slow, or did I do something wrong? | 17:03 |
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| fiferboy | hiemanshu: I have heard that it is very slow, but I have never tried it | 17:04 |
| hiemanshu | fiferboy: ah ok | 17:05 |
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| Andy80 | it runs :) | 17:06 |
| hiemanshu | sure, but its almost close to unusable | 17:06 |
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| khertan | hiemanshu, if no 3G network and frequent loss of wifi isn't a problem | 17:18 |
| khertan | :) | 17:18 |
| khertan | it s near to be useable | 17:18 |
| hiemanshu | but it slow as shit, took over a minute to open the settings/camera app | 17:18 |
| Jucato | hiemanshu: there's actually a note here: http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900#FAQ | 17:19 |
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| Jucato | looks like the bug isn't fixed yet | 17:20 |
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| TheBootroo | who is like me thinking that seeing the sucess of the N9, nokia will put out "N9-02" at beginnin of 2012, with meego 1.3 basis, brand new snapdragon quad core 2.5 ghz which as been announced last week, to kill definitely the upcoming iphone5 which will have a poor (in comparison) dual core.... | 17:42 |
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| berndhs | I think predicting Nokia moves 6 months ahead is risky :) | 17:44 |
| alterego | pfft, snapdragon is lame :P | 17:44 |
| julienf | berndhs: as it is with any of the other companies anyway :D | 17:44 |
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| alterego | I'd rather stay with the fairly FOSS friendly TI | 17:45 |
| alterego | julienf: how have you found this N9 news? :) | 17:45 |
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| julienf | alterego: I have known about the product for a while and I like it. Disappointed in Ahtisaari's performance. | 17:45 |
| TheBootroo | in 6 months elop will be out | 17:45 |
| alterego | julienf: you mean his keynote speacg? | 17:46 |
| berndhs | i dont know snapdragon, what's it like ? | 17:46 |
| alterego | ~speach? | 17:46 |
| Stskeeps | julienf: i actually thought marko did it well, compared to the rest | 17:46 |
| julienf | TheBootroo: possible, as right now, most of the strategy is what is left from last team... | 17:46 |
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| alterego | I thought it was okay, wasn't too bad :) | 17:46 |
| julienf | Stskeeps: he did an A-OK presentation, but he is no Steve Jobs :D | 17:46 |
| alterego | Meh, Steve Jobs is overrated :P | 17:47 |
| Stskeeps | julienf: i thought the experience would be better if he was wearing a bathrobe and had a glass of whiskey in his hand | 17:47 |
| alterego | And I think iPhones and iPads are starting to just look like toys now. | 17:47 |
| alterego | Stskeeps: everything looks better like that! | 17:47 |
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| berndhs | well, they are toys, the whole industry is selling entertainment | 17:47 |
| alterego | I see mine as more a tool .. Though my gf would disagree :) | 17:48 |
| TheBootroo | gtg | 17:48 |
| TheBootroo | bye | 17:48 |
| berndhs | sure they can be used as tools, but that's not where the mass market is | 17:48 |
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| alterego | o/ dawn | 17:49 |
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| DawnFoster | hey alterego | 17:49 |
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| alterego | Apparently we have a MeeGo smartphone now | 17:50 |
| alterego | *cough* | 17:50 |
| Stskeeps | she was up, i seem to recall | 17:50 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 17:50 |
| alterego | Heh | 17:50 |
| alterego | Yes, good point :D | 17:50 |
| alterego | Hurp, dialer meeting in 10 minutes. | 17:50 |
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| julienf | I have to say that although Nokia did not invent the swype thing (RIM did with the plybook), they managed to make something different | 17:51 |
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| Jaffa | julienf: It seems likely it's independently developed rather than copied. So they both "invented" it but RIM was first to market. | 17:52 |
| alterego | I imagine, knowing Nokias R&D life cycles, they probably did invent it ;) | 17:52 |
| alterego | Or they both stole it from my Columbus app | 17:52 |
| thiago_home | swype is the keyboard thing | 17:52 |
| alterego | *grumbles* I want my royalties! | 17:53 |
| thiago_home | the swipe UI is Nokia one | 17:53 |
| julienf | alterego: with the pace they changed the UI in the last iterations, I have to say that I doubt it :D | 17:53 |
| alterego | Heh | 17:53 |
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| berndhs | right, only one person ever thought of a straight line :) | 17:54 |
| thiago_home | clearly the swipe landed after the last set of leaks | 17:54 |
| thiago_home | all device shots you see that aren't from the past 24 hours still have the same Handset UX that we have as open source | 17:55 |
| alterego | not exactly | 17:55 |
| alterego | The N9 "teaser" leak of the N950 is clearly older | 17:56 |
| thiago_home | that was the only leak after the new UI | 17:56 |
| thiago_home | but you could barely see the swipe | 17:56 |
| alterego | Judging by the past 13 hours, I'd say that leak may date back to last year. | 17:56 |
| alterego | The swipe is clearly visible, as is the task switcher and the feed. | 17:57 |
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| fiferboy | I wonder if it would be possible to write a plugin to give a fourth view (app view, task view, event view) to make a simple widget view... | 18:01 |
| TSCHAKeee | from tweets: "RT @rosgani: Hardware is not the N9's problem - it's the software. The phone runs MeeGo which is obsolete, even before the N9 goes on sale. #NokiaN9" | 18:02 |
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| toninikkanen | i could have sworn eldar murtazin wrote that one :) | 18:03 |
| toninikkanen | remember how people were saying the N900 was obsolete the moment it shipped ,because meego was coming? :) | 18:03 |
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| * Jucato remembers it as N900 was obsolete because Harmattan (not yet MeeGo-based) would be a Qt-based rewrite | 18:04 | |
| Jucato | and that was also before Fremantle was released | 18:04 |
| javispedro | fiferboy: as I un derstand it the event view acts as the widget view | 18:05 |
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| javispedro | fiferboy: it even has a rss reader | 18:05 |
| toninikkanen | yeah that was first, and when harmattan was rebranded as meego the story changed to the newer variant | 18:05 |
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| Jaffa | fiferboy: I think an app which provides a widget framework and refuses to close may be a good "dashboard" approach. Then you can have as many widget screens as you want | 18:06 |
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| Jaffa | javispedro: There's a C++ & DBus API for adding events, I'm told | 18:06 |
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| * Jaffa has an idea for a commuting app | 18:06 | |
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| javispedro | I do like the idea | 18:07 |
| javispedro | but I guess that's because my single used home screen on n900 has : calendar, mail, and rss widgets =) | 18:07 |
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| javispedro | (a few launcher buttons though) | 18:08 |
| thiago_home | just keep those apps running | 18:08 |
| lcuk | Jaffa, adding other panels would be fun | 18:08 |
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| lcuk | the app view is basically graffitiwall | 18:08 |
| thiago_home | then you have "fast access" in the thumbnail preview in the task switcher | 18:08 |
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| Jaffa | thiago_home: That's what Nokians said with the N900 | 18:09 |
| Jaffa | thiago_home: And then we wanted to make sure the battery lasted until we knew we needed it ;-) | 18:09 |
| thiago_home | I tested battery usage | 18:09 |
| javispedro | not to mention | 18:09 |
| javispedro | there's that nice "close all" button in the task switcher | 18:09 |
| thiago_home | apps running don't consume too much battery. It's the syncing services that do. | 18:09 |
| javispedro | so big, so pretty, so irresistible... | 18:09 |
| slaine | So is the N9 UX all based on QML ? | 18:09 |
| thiago_home | and those will be running regardless of your mail client being open. | 18:09 |
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| thiago_home | slaine: I'm not supposed to divulge technical details until the device ships, but then again some people will get N950s next week... | 18:10 |
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| Jucato | lucky :) | 18:10 |
| fiferboy | javispedro, Jaffa: Both those approaches seem good | 18:10 |
| thiago_home | so no, it's MTF | 18:11 |
| thiago_home | some apps are QML though | 18:11 |
| inean | toninikkanen: Who is Eldar Murtazin? Becouse is today tweet about Meego is epic... and posted by google.com/finance as notice for today's NOK stocks | 18:11 |
| fiferboy | Being able to add, say, countdowns to the event view makes sense | 18:11 |
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| slaine | thiago_home: thanks | 18:11 |
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| Stskeeps | toninikkanen: an idiot.. that stuff isn't even top secret, it was in presentation materials at feb11 | 18:11 |
| inean | yep! | 18:11 |
| toninikkanen | inean: mr. Murtazin is a guy who totally hates Nokia and goes out of his way to make it known the world over | 18:11 |
| the_lord | anyone knows about front-face camera on the N9 ? | 18:11 |
| Stskeeps | i'm fairly sure the guy is involved in stock manipulation | 18:11 |
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| thiago_home | the_lord: it's there. What else do you need to know? | 18:13 |
| inean | NOk stocks 3,68% up. It reaches 10% Elop will resigned from his job? :) | 18:14 |
| TSCHAKeee | I hope that skype video calling actually works more than 1 out of 10 calls this next pass. | 18:14 |
| * mikeleib wants at least to play with the N9 | 18:14 | |
| TSCHAKeee | that last PR update for the n900 basically killed it. | 18:14 |
| the_lord | thiago_home: only that :) | 18:15 |
| TSCHAKeee | (not really nokia's fault, Skype's code is beyond shit, but hey...) | 18:15 |
| thiago_home | mikeleib: talk to james. He played with it :-) | 18:15 |
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| mikeleib | james played with it like you look at a lion in the zoo. I want it more like a toy. If I don't like it, I'll get rid of it. If I like it, I'll play with it | 18:16 |
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| gabrbedd | Nokia guys: nice work on the N9. Looks very good. | 18:18 |
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| gabrbedd | I think my favorite press is when they say, "This is awesome... why the hell did they switch to WP7??" | 18:20 |
| * mikeleib talks to thiago_home.. he played with one | 18:21 | |
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| alterego | gabrbedd: I think we all like that news ;) | 18:22 |
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| pebcak | gabrbedd I would fav that | 18:22 |
| pebcak | :D | 18:22 |
| berndhs | the WP7 thing was just to motivate the developers ? | 18:22 |
| javispedro | haha | 18:23 |
| Jucato | and the W8 is to demotivate them? :) | 18:23 |
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| berndhs | let me see.... Nokia will drop WP in a few months, pay back all the $$ ? | 18:24 |
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| thiago_home | mikeleib: I like it and I'll buy the N9 when it comes out | 18:27 |
| thiago_home | I'm trying to find out how to get an N950 now | 18:27 |
| Stskeeps | my wife wants one, as well | 18:27 |
| mikeleib | let me know how to get one of those N950's | 18:27 |
| Stskeeps | mikeleib: try your luck with https://meego.com/community/device-program | 18:27 |
| Termana | Stskeeps, an N9? | 18:27 |
| * mikeleib is unsure if I can do that | 18:27 | |
| TSCHAKeee | mikeleib: sign up for the community device program. yup, thanks Stskeeps, was about to post that. | 18:28 |
| Termana | Stskeeps, your wife wants it in black right? | 18:28 |
| TSCHAKeee | wtf does an n950 look like? | 18:28 |
| Termana | ;) | 18:28 |
| * andyross is quite sure mikeleib cannot do that. | 18:28 | |
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| thiago_home | TSCHAKeee: I wonder why it wasn't announced | 18:28 |
| thiago_home | people will get it next week or so | 18:28 |
| X-Fade | thiago_home: It was mentioned, nothing to announce :) | 18:28 |
| hena | i doubt it's too easy to get n950's anymore | 18:28 |
| alterego | http://mobilitydigest.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/typetop.jpg | 18:28 |
| TSCHAKeee | thiago_home: i signed up for one, i hope i get it. :( | 18:28 |
| hena | apparently there's only 250 of them made | 18:29 |
| alterego | N950 ^ | 18:29 |
| hena | most prolly already gone | 18:29 |
| thiago_home | hena: there are more | 18:29 |
| hena | there is? | 18:29 |
| thiago_home | but 250 reserved for the MeeGo community | 18:29 |
| hena | ok | 18:29 |
| alterego | hena: there are plenty more. | 18:29 |
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| hena | oh, ok, cool | 18:29 |
| TSCHAKeee | wth? | 18:29 |
| TSCHAKeee | freaky | 18:29 |
| hena | so it will hit the sales? | 18:29 |
| Termana | TSCHAKeee, http://mobilitydigest.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/typetop.jpg | 18:29 |
| TSCHAKeee | no, the n950 will not be sold | 18:29 |
| TSCHAKeee | yup i just saw | 18:30 |
| TSCHAKeee | funky | 18:30 |
| TSCHAKeee | an iphone4 with a keyboard | 18:30 |
| hena | a shame | 18:30 |
| Termana | TSCHAKeee, damn it | 18:30 |
| TSCHAKeee | hehehe | 18:30 |
| Termana | damn alterego | 18:30 |
| Termana | TSCHAKeee, http://www.worldofnokia.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/jpeg-588x441.jpg | 18:30 |
| Termana | this one | 18:30 |
| Termana | Making me copy bad links to my clipboard :( | 18:30 |
| hena | it's a nice device, but without the keyboard it's just another dumbenduserdevice | 18:31 |
| TSCHAKeee | ahh so that's the unit that got leaked all over the place | 18:31 |
| alterego | Sorry, didn't mean to post that | 18:31 |
| Termana | alterego, :p | 18:32 |
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| alterego | I presumed my last post would still be in the buffer :D | 18:32 |
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| alterego | I think this is what we'll be getting: http://www.nokiablog.ch/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/326932798.jpg | 18:32 |
| alterego | That's the one I meant :D | 18:32 |
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| hena | i guess that's the one we might have if we didn't have the nda | 18:34 |
| alterego | hena: hrm? :P | 18:34 |
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| Jaffa | alterego: I hope that's the one we get :-) | 18:48 |
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| javispedro | we? there's not enough for anyone! | 18:48 |
| javispedro | fortunately, yesterday I watched battle royale. | 18:48 |
| javispedro | so.. | 18:48 |
| Jaffa | javispedro: I'll use my secret cabal powers on you | 18:49 |
| Jaffa | Less effective on meego.com, admittedly | 18:49 |
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| javispedro | this reminds me that it's time for that "what to do with maemo.org" council decision ;P | 18:50 |
| ampharos | it's like reverse duke nukem forever | 18:50 |
| ampharos | you cannot kill it off | 18:50 |
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| ampharos | I still use it, I;m an N800 user | 18:51 |
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| * javispedro curses at the libpng12.so.0 hidden qt sdk requeriment | 18:54 | |
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| Hei_Ku | hello. does anyone know what component is correct one to file a bug for libpurple (pidgin library) in bugs.meego.com? | 18:56 |
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| Damion | hello | 19:01 |
| pebcak | alterego that's the n950... but you can't buy it afaik | 19:01 |
| Qantourisc | Anyone knows how to get the netbook image going on xen to test (currenly has issues with videocard drivers) | 19:02 |
| anab1s | Hello everyone. | 19:02 |
| alterego | pebcak: we were talking about the N950 :P | 19:02 |
| alterego | We're developers | 19:02 |
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| Damion | it turns out I have an n950 | 19:03 |
| anab1s | I have a question: In light of the N9 announcement, can Nokia's Meego/Qt stack be saved? | 19:03 |
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| alterego | anab1s: saved? What's wrong with Qt? | 19:04 |
| SpeedEvil | Damion: Congratulations? | 19:04 |
| pebcak | alterego I won't get one :| | 19:04 |
| SpeedEvil | Damion: How long have you been playing with it? | 19:04 |
| alterego | Damion: you have one? Are you Nokia? :P | 19:04 |
| Damion | no | 19:04 |
| Damion | SpeedEvil: about 5mins | 19:04 |
| Damion | I've applied for one properly, this is just one a colleague has | 19:05 |
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| SpeedEvil | Did you check the guy was breathing? | 19:05 |
| anab1s | alterego: Nothing, from what I see. When I say saved, I mean: can we (read: consumers & developers) convince Nokia to persist with the stack? | 19:05 |
| Damion | the company I work for partners with Nokia for some things | 19:05 |
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| Damion | I wish I'd asked weeks ago! | 19:05 |
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| Damion | she just had it in a draw | 19:05 |
| alterego | anab1s: I don't think they're getting rid of it just yet .. | 19:06 |
| Damion | I'm about the only person here who gasped at it, she found that very funny. Everyone is an Android/iPhone fan here and thinks I'm mad | 19:06 |
| alterego | Damion: hah :P | 19:06 |
| Damion | it#s all very slick but I want a terminal | 19:06 |
| alterego | I'm attempting to get one fedex'd to me for a meego meetup in the uk | 19:06 |
| alterego | Which is on Thursday. | 19:07 |
| SpeedEvil | Sigh. | 19:07 |
| * alterego shakes magic 8ball | 19:07 | |
| alterego | "outlook slim" | 19:07 |
| alterego | Oh well. | 19:07 |
| timoph | :D | 19:07 |
| Damion | I've enabled alternate sources for install stuff so I guess I could point the browser to a .deb with some preinst that writes details about the OS to the vfat drive | 19:07 |
| anab1s | alterego: "yet" is what I'm afraid of. The Nokia N9 looks excellent, all I want is for it to be commercially successful. | 19:07 |
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| alterego | anab1s: buy one then ;) | 19:07 |
| alterego | Or buy a few thousand ;) | 19:08 |
| timoph | you can buy me one too :) | 19:08 |
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| Jaffa | Hmm, I've seen a URL to a picture of the time picker. Anyone got it to hand? | 19:09 |
| anab1s | alterego: I'm only one person ;) I'd like there to be a campaign to pressurise Nokia into giving the platform more prominence, people are saying that the N9 is the last hoorah for Nokia Meego | 19:09 |
| Jaffa | Ah, found it. | 19:10 |
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| alterego | anab1s: more like the first | 19:10 |
| alterego | anab1s: there's no knowing how they will position the N9 yet, just wait and be patient. | 19:10 |
| renato | andre__, ping | 19:11 |
| alterego | We (being evangelists of the platform) obviously want it to be a success, but it's up to normal day-to-day users to make it succesfull. | 19:11 |
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| Damion | does anyone know how to run arbitrary stuff or install a terminal on to the n950 ? | 19:12 |
| anab1s | alterego: I know, but I'm worried. What I'm worried is the line that the tech blogs have been pedalling: "Nice phone, dead platform". I'm worried that this may prevent developers & consumers from giving the platform a chance. | 19:12 |
| alterego | Damion: apt-get? :) | 19:12 |
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| timoph | Damion: well. it's a developer device so shouldn't be a problem | 19:12 |
| alterego | anab1s: can't say I've heard any headlines like that. | 19:13 |
| timoph | Damion: and there's a terminal in gitorious if it doesn't one by default | 19:13 |
| andre__ | renato, pong | 19:13 |
| Termana | timoph, alterego: don't completely bet on it | 19:13 |
| Damion | alterego: timoph so I should be able to browse to a .deb, install and start up the terminal ? | 19:13 |
| alterego | Termana: bet on what? | 19:13 |
| Jaffa | Damion: Yes, according to qgil | 19:13 |
| Termana | Quim has been mentioning that the N950 will need to be put in open mode on the MeeGo forums | 19:13 |
| alterego | Damion: I'd hope so | 19:13 |
| Jaffa | Termana: "need" | 19:14 |
| renato | andre__, I have create a section on meego wiki to put information about hamarmatan python development, why did you remove that? | 19:14 |
| alterego | Damion: send it to me and I'll tell you :P | 19:14 |
| timoph | Damion: no idea. I don't have one of those. hoping to get one though | 19:14 |
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| anab1s | alterego: check out "the register", "engadget", "this is my next" | 19:14 |
| Termana | Jaffa, I have no idea. I'm just extrapolating and regurgitating what he said | 19:14 |
| renato | s/hamarmatan/harmattan | 19:14 |
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| alterego | anab1s: I have, don't remember reading anything about "dead platform" in them | 19:15 |
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| Qantourisc | Is there default vesa support ? | 19:15 |
| * alterego reads again | 19:15 | |
| andre__ | renato, because on the frontpage there should be project wide important overview stuff, not stuff that is based on one implementation (harmattan) of one stakeholder | 19:16 |
| Damion | Jaffa: ta, I'll try that tomorrow. I don't think I can take this phone home | 19:16 |
| Stskeeps | renato: doesn't that belong in the harmattan sdk materials rather than meego.com though? | 19:16 |
| andre__ | renato, I wanted to add a comment when reverting but the wiki software didn't let me :-( | 19:16 |
| andre__ | renato, Harmattan stuff is simply nothing for the upstream MeeGo wiki frontpage. | 19:16 |
| SpeedEvil | andre__: Past stakeholder? | 19:17 |
| Damion | oh wow, I can take it home! | 19:17 |
| Damion | :))))) | 19:17 |
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| SpeedEvil | Damion: :) | 19:17 |
| Qantourisc | What is the X-manager for meego 1.2 Xorg ? | 19:17 |
| alterego | Damion: :) | 19:17 |
| Stskeeps | Qantourisc: window manager, you mea? | 19:17 |
| andre__ | SpeedEvil, I don't see past here (yet). still too many people working on it | 19:17 |
| alterego | Damion: happy hacking? | 19:17 |
| alterego | I mean: happy hacking! | 19:18 |
| Qantourisc | Stskeeps: no i meant X11/W/Y implementation | 19:18 |
| SpeedEvil | Damion: Is it a device with a keyboard - some rumors are confusing | 19:18 |
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| renato | Stskeeps, there is a specific place on meego wiki for harmattan? | 19:18 |
| Damion | SpeedEvil: the n950 is yes | 19:18 |
| anab1s | alterego: http://thisismynext.com/2011/06/20/nokia-n9-officially-announced-unibody-design-buttonless-swipe-ui-lost-promise-meego/ "That’s some serious hardware for a dead-end OS, but it’s good to see Nokia can still produce a competitive device, and the company says the DNA of the N9" | 19:18 |
| Damion | the released one the public will get is an n9 without | 19:18 |
| slaine | I think we need a wiki that clears up this Harmattan stuff | 19:19 |
| * Qantourisc is trying to test meego on Xen before considering bying an N9 :) | 19:19 | |
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| SpeedEvil | Damion: Thanks - I know about the n9. | 19:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | slaine, "We don't want anything to do with it at MeeGo.com?" | 19:19 |
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| SpeedEvil | I'd be surprised to see the n9 by cheristmas. | 19:19 |
| slaine | GeneralAntilles: something like that ;) | 19:19 |
| thiago_home | the thing is that even if nokia isn't doing meego anymore, meego isn't dead | 19:19 |
| Damion | in the note taking app it seems quite nice, the keyboard will take getting used to | 19:20 |
| thiago_home | nokia PR isn't helping here today | 19:20 |
| Damion | Ctrl wasn't sticky | 19:20 |
| slaine | I'm more talking about the fact that Harmattan != MeeGo | 19:20 |
| Damion | Fn was | 19:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | slaine, good, good. Only company shipping a device that could potentially make the platform relevant and we want everybody interested in it to go to another cave. | 19:20 |
| anab1s | alterego: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/06/21/nokia_singapore_meego_but_no_windows/ | 19:20 |
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| slaine | even though it's labeled as such | 19:20 |
| t8 | hey guys | 19:20 |
| andre__ | renato: what does the MeeGo wiki have to do with a downstream implementation? I fail to see the relation | 19:21 |
| t8 | the N9 looks pretty cool | 19:21 |
| alterego | anab1s: just read the engadget article, no mention of "dead platform" | 19:21 |
| Jaffa | slaine: Harmattan shows MeeGo can be used to produce a consumer-focused, user-friendly, mass-market OS. Even if its packaging format is not really MeeGo | 19:21 |
| t8 | is nokia a buy here? | 19:21 |
| t8 | maybe the stock is cheap | 19:21 |
| SpeedEvil | t8: Go for it. | 19:21 |
| Stskeeps | Jaffa: s/meego/qt+linux technologies/g | 19:21 |
| slaine | But everything about it that makes it the N9 is nothing to do with MeeGo | 19:21 |
| alterego | anab1s: and theregister is pure satire and comedy .. | 19:21 |
| t8 | but what happens if nokia isnt here in a year | 19:22 |
| t8 | is that a silly thought? | 19:22 |
| t8 | wall street thinks nokia and rimm are both dinoaurs | 19:22 |
| Termana | Disclaimer: SpeedEvil is not responsible for an loss caused by his financial advice | 19:22 |
| t8 | haha no kidding | 19:22 |
| Termana | any* | 19:22 |
| slaine | It's Maemo6 right ? with synchronized higher level API's like Qt Quick | 19:22 |
| Stskeeps | t8: is that somehow related to meego.com, a linux platform? | 19:22 |
| thiago_home | slaine: yes | 19:22 |
| SpeedEvil | Termana: AnFor any financial advice I give, I reserve the right if I'm wrong, to point and laugh. | 19:22 |
| Termana | Stskeeps, t8 is asking about buying Nokia stock | 19:22 |
| Termana | SpeedEvil, :p | 19:22 |
| t8 | well im just wondering | 19:23 |
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| t8 | it seems like nokia is just a handset maker? | 19:23 |
| SpeedEvil | t8: Nobody knows. | 19:23 |
| t8 | im confused | 19:23 |
| * alterego sighs | 19:23 | |
| * timoph thinks all this could be moved to #meego-bar | 19:23 | |
| t8 | wait | 19:23 |
| t8 | meego and maemo | 19:23 |
| t8 | i guess i have no idea | 19:23 |
| t8 | haaha | 19:23 |
| Damion | t8: that's an amazing amount, not the case | 19:23 |
| Qantourisc | Who tries to launch Xorg (continuesly ?) | 19:23 |
| SpeedEvil | t8: If things go nokias way (speaking of back before febuary) they could have had a new third entrant into the marketplace. | 19:23 |
| SpeedEvil | t8: with a new OS. | 19:23 |
| Termana | t8, listen, don't they have financial brokers that advise you on stock affairs? | 19:23 |
| thiago_home | Qantourisc: uxlaunch | 19:23 |
| Termana | We are all a bunch of nerds | 19:23 |
| Termana | We don't trade on the stock market | 19:23 |
| SpeedEvil | t8: But they're stuck on windows 7 now, which ... | 19:23 |
| Termana | Otherwise we wouldn't be here | 19:24 |
| t8 | ok well | 19:24 |
| t8 | N9 runs on meego, right? | 19:24 |
| t8 | it looks like a hot phone | 19:24 |
| alterego | anab1s: The Reg article is all wrong anyway. :P | 19:24 |
| arjan | t8: N9 runs maemo. | 19:24 |
| thiago_home | alterego: when have you known el reg to be accurate? | 19:24 |
| andre__ | Termana: wrong. there's exceptions. ;-) | 19:24 |
| Damion | if they were we'd all be sticking OS oses on including android. As it happens they look after symbian and have taken meego and made a VERY slick fast booting system and UI on top | 19:24 |
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| t8 | lmao ok | 19:24 |
| alterego | thiago_home: exactly, it's satirical comedy ;) | 19:24 |
| t8 | ahaha | 19:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | arjan, not according to the branding. :) | 19:24 |
| anab1s | alterego: what about the this is my next link? | 19:24 |
| t8 | this is funny | 19:25 |
| Qantourisc | Cannot open log file "/var/log/Xorg.0.log" <= small bug in the livecd :p | 19:25 |
| thiago_home | GeneralAntilles: it's a meego-branded maemo6 | 19:25 |
| Stskeeps | arjan: +1 on your lwn comment btw | 19:25 |
| Damion | the meego mocks I've seen look pitiful, like it's like a bunch of nerds designed the ui ;) | 19:25 |
| alterego | anab1s: I remember that being quite positive. | 19:25 |
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| alterego | anab1s: and it's a lame duck site anyway :P | 19:25 |
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| alterego | anab1s: engadget did a shockingly positive review. Most people are saying "Nokia have to keep this". | 19:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | Personally, I think it would serve everybody better to leave emotional issues out of considerations of Nokia and their platforms. Especially considering how depressing a conference was just held. ;) | 19:26 |
| alterego | So don't get too bogged down with the mad hat joker articles, there's always a parody :) | 19:26 |
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| alterego | GeneralAntilles: I would have creamed my pants if they'd unveiled the N9 in SF ;) | 19:26 |
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| andre__ | GeneralAntilles: but arguing on interwebs is no fun anymore when you start acting rational! | 19:27 |
| alterego | And if/when I get an N950, I'm going to lock myself in a cuboard with it and my laptop for a week maybe a month ;) | 19:27 |
| Qantourisc | ok and someone else is keeping uxlaunch alive ... | 19:27 |
| Stskeeps | Qantourisc: inittab, in 1.2 | 19:27 |
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| Stskeeps | 'meego-dm' | 19:27 |
| hena | it is quite a nice phone | 19:27 |
| alterego | The real progress will occur when we get a proper MeeGo stack running on these devices. | 19:28 |
| Qantourisc | Stskeeps: i see, better just fix the X11 in meego use :p | 19:28 |
| Qantourisc | *user | 19:28 |
| hena | wish they made more | 19:28 |
| lardman | alterego: is that like throwing a prisoner with a cockrel and a dog into the Tiber? | 19:28 |
| lardman | in a bag of course | 19:28 |
| Jaffa | slaine: If FLOSS apps are built on Harmattan, uploaded to COBS and come out in people's OBS home projects and with RPMs (& debs) on apps.meego.com; isn't that a MeeGo win? | 19:28 |
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| alterego | lardman: I don't know, but I imagine both scenarios are messy. | 19:28 |
| lardman | lol | 19:28 |
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| lardman | indeed | 19:28 |
| alterego | And my gf wont like either ;) | 19:28 |
| Stskeeps | alterego: .. way ahead of you. which is probably the only reason i don't mind it being in 'meego device program', it's really good meego.com-able system | 19:28 |
| anab1s | alterego: umm, it's undeniable that there's a perception that Harmattan/Meego is not a major part of Nokia's strategy going forward. | 19:29 |
| Jaffa | slaine: And even if, as Stskeeps says, it proves that Linux+Qt can be used to build a consumer phone, having it branded as MeeGo gets MeeGo that free publicity. "Look what Nokia can do with MeeGo" | 19:29 |
| alterego | Stskeeps: that may or may not have been how they got the MeeGo label ;) | 19:29 |
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| Damion | Jaffa: is qgil an irc user who just isn't online atm? | 19:29 |
| CosmoHill | .o/ | 19:29 |
| Jaffa | Damion: Yes. | 19:29 |
| Jaffa | Damion: Recently of the MeeGo Community Office | 19:29 |
| Stskeeps | alterego: i think i've concluded with myself that i don't want to know how that came through and really hope this doesn't have any damaging effects to meego.com | 19:30 |
| slaine | Jaffa: I don't disagree with any of that | 19:30 |
| alterego | Stskeeps: agreed, we need to spin it right ;) | 19:30 |
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| Damion | and so if I bing for "meego gitorious" and browse a bit I should be able to find something I can turn in to a http served .deb that I should be able to make the phone install ? | 19:30 |
| alterego | Stskeeps: just say it is Nokias MeeGo and if anyone mentiones the oddities we'll have them, erm, disposed of ;) | 19:30 |
| slaine | I'm psyched about the device, it's fantastic looking phone. The N950 looks like an excellent replacement for the N900 and all in all it's very positive. | 19:30 |
| Jaffa | slaine: +1 | 19:31 |
| arjan | Jaffa: however maemo apps don't run on meego proper. oh well. | 19:31 |
| Jaffa | Let's all get pissed tonight. | 19:31 |
| Stskeeps | but i also (where we started) think that we shouldn't increase the confusion by dumping harmattan stuff into meego.com collaborative spaces | 19:31 |
| Jaffa | arjan: Well, if politics was put aside and the MeeGo UX/Qt Quick Components issue was solved (although you can be sure devs are going to start abstracting between them themselves pretty damn quickly) | 19:31 |
| alterego | Stskeeps: you mean like pyside harmattan articles? | 19:31 |
| Damion | I wonder if I can chroot or LD_LIBRARY_PATH kludge enough of microb from maemo to get the flash plugin to run. | 19:31 |
| alterego | Problem is, if we keep that stuff on maemo.org we may cause even more confusion. | 19:32 |
| Stskeeps | alterego: for example - i mean, you can't do those things with anything delivered from meego.com | 19:32 |
| Damion | because as it stands, no YT is a major limitation. | 19:32 |
| alterego | Indeed | 19:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | alterego, it wont be on maemo.org, either. | 19:32 |
| Stskeeps | even with our CE work, we tell people to use the meego.com sdk as that's the thing that people should develop with | 19:32 |
| alterego | We need to contain Harmattan to developer.nokia.com/swipe imo | 19:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | There is no home for Harmattan. | 19:32 |
| slaine | alterego: +1 | 19:32 |
| lardman | new site | 19:32 |
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| alterego | GeneralAntilles: developer.nokia.com/swipe :P | 19:32 |
| Termana | There's not place like 127.0.0.1 | 19:33 |
| Termana | no* | 19:33 |
| alterego | Heh | 19:33 |
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| X-Fade | Harmattan apps are more MeeGo than Maemo. And let's face it, MeeGo is a platform without apps. | 19:33 |
| slaine | Right, time for a very late lunch | 19:33 |
| Jaffa | alterego: There's the developer.nokia.com wiki | 19:33 |
| slaine | Also known as commuting home for dinner | 19:33 |
| lardman | assuming each implementation of a Meego device will use some different UI, it's hard to know how to combine everything on one site | 19:33 |
| slaine | laters | 19:33 |
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| alterego | Jaffa: that's what I'm saying, we need to contain Harmattan to nokia.com | 19:33 |
| Stskeeps | arjan: switching topic a bit, has there been any talks about how to have wayland and xorg coexist in meego trunk? i'm thinking if we can effectively remove x11 deps from meego core, while still being able to have both running? | 19:33 |
| alterego | So it doesn't interfere with what we're doing with CE and MeeGo.com | 19:34 |
| X-Fade | We can be very strict and have no apps this time next year. Or we try to take advantage of the buzz. | 19:34 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: +1 | 19:34 |
| lardman | X-Fade: +1 | 19:34 |
| Qantourisc | "ok FIXED" :) | 19:34 |
| Qantourisc | sortof :) | 19:34 |
| Qantourisc | several WEIRD bugs on the livecd ! | 19:34 |
| alterego | I agree with that. | 19:34 |
| alterego | But will there be a Harmattan sub forum? | 19:35 |
| Qantourisc | had to chmod 4755 /usr/bin/Xorg and make sure /var/log is vritable | 19:35 |
| alterego | on fmc? | 19:35 |
| Qantourisc | now i can test | 19:35 |
| Termana | alterego, doesn't that really go under "Devices" | 19:35 |
| Stskeeps | Qantourisc: what on earth did you do to make xorg permissions mess up? :P | 19:35 |
| alterego | Termana: no, N9/50 are devices :P | 19:35 |
| Qantourisc | Stskeeps: i did nothing, i just booted the livecd period | 19:35 |
| alterego | Harmattan is platform | 19:35 |
| Termana | err... nevermind | 19:35 |
| Termana | there is no devices forum anyway | 19:35 |
| Termana | :p | 19:35 |
| Jaffa | alterego: Following through mine & X-Fade's point to the logical conclusion, some stuff on meego.com about "want to target MeeGo "proper" with your app? here's how" seems sensible | 19:35 |
| Jaffa | alterego: So there's support & wiki docs on *that* | 19:36 |
| Termana | sub-forum rather | 19:36 |
| alterego | Jaffa: yes, I'm not talking about cutting it out completely. | 19:36 |
| X-Fade | My suggestion is to treat Harmattan as an additional UX. | 19:36 |
| Jaffa | alterego: Around making sure the right meta-data is there for COBS to produce RPM & deb; best practices for dealing with QML Components | 19:36 |
| Stskeeps | i will give 100 eur to the person who shows, that within a week, it's possible for harmattan to accept meego compliant packages | 19:36 |
| alterego | m'kay | 19:36 |
| Stskeeps | in rpm format | 19:36 |
| Stskeeps | without difficulty | 19:37 |
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| Stskeeps | (armv7hl) | 19:37 |
| alterego | Does Harmattan have rpm unpackaging capabilities? | 19:37 |
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| Termana | Stskeeps, alien? | 19:37 |
| lardman | Stskeeps: sub-contracting? ;) | 19:37 |
| alterego | Stskeeps: you know about this stuff :P | 19:37 |
| * alterego downloads sdk and starts porting columbus :P | 19:38 | |
| Stskeeps | alterego: i generally want to show that the effort was so significantly small that it really should be done | 19:38 |
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| * lardman has off-line SDK downloaded, time to go back to my internet-less new house | 19:38 | |
| lardman | catch you chaps tomorrow | 19:38 |
| alterego | Stskeeps: okay | 19:38 |
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| Termana | Talking about euro | 19:38 |
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| Termana | I found 1 euro cent in my bedroom the other day | 19:38 |
| Stskeeps | so we ideally can forget about anything but a 'meego' target in any qt sdk/meego sdk | 19:38 |
| Termana | Which is strange, because I'm in Australia | 19:39 |
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| Termana | and I don't remember ever having any euro | 19:39 |
| alterego | Termana: sorry, must have fallen out of my wallet when I came to visit your lady | 19:39 |
| alterego | ooooooo! | 19:39 |
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| Termana | alterego, oh snap... I don't know how to tell you this... but I'm a cross dresser | 19:40 |
| Termana | :p | 19:40 |
| alterego | Hahah | 19:40 |
| Stskeeps | and this conversation just took a sharp left into crazyland | 19:40 |
| Termana | ;) | 19:40 |
| arjan | Stskeeps: on wayland; current plan is to do Wayland for tablet in 1.3, and for everything in 1.4 | 19:41 |
| arjan | in 1.4 we would not have X as master for anything | 19:41 |
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| arjan | (there'll be some compatibility X thing inside wayland for legacy apps probably) | 19:41 |
| aissen | arjan: is that even realistic ? What about input architecture ? will that be a done deal ? | 19:41 |
| Stskeeps | arjan: alright, so in 1.3 meego core packages will contain xorg deps as well, ok | 19:42 |
| Stskeeps | s/xorg/x11/ | 19:42 |
| infobot | Stskeeps meant: arjan: alright, so in 1.3 meego core packages will contain x11 deps as well, ok | 19:42 |
| aissen | I also question the choice of btrfs — while upgrading meego I had a nice btrfs oops, and then my root was broken and there was nothing else to do. | 19:42 |
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| Stskeeps | aissen: input architecture is usually a lot simpler on meego type devices, you usually know what you have to deal with | 19:43 |
| Stskeeps | i mean, kernel input devices.. | 19:43 |
| thiago_home | aissen: you just need the wayland server to multiplex or broker access to the kernel evdev devices | 19:43 |
| thiago_home | you don't want to do it like the RX71_MULTITOUCH implementation in Qt that we used in MeeGo 1.1, which made every application open the input device and thus be woken up whenever you touched the touchscreen | 19:44 |
| alterego | eek | 19:45 |
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| Stskeeps | heh, yeah, that was fun | 19:45 |
| thiago_home | I don't know the details, but I'm sure there's a solution for input on wayland | 19:46 |
| thiago_home | I'm more concerned about more esoteric things like "clipboard" or "drag and drop" | 19:46 |
| alterego | Isn't that part of Qt? | 19:46 |
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| thiago_home | Qt has the API, of course | 19:47 |
| alterego | Oh, I suppose that piggy backs off of the platform | 19:47 |
| thiago_home | right | 19:47 |
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| thiago_home | you still need a way to signal applications somehow | 19:47 |
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| thiago_home | anyway, wayland+lighthouse+scenegraph are running fine. We just need to stabilise and release by 1.3. | 19:48 |
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| thiago_home | and fix the performance and memory issues | 19:48 |
| arjan | aissen: this is why we do only one first | 19:49 |
| arjan | to go all the way and solve all issues for it | 19:49 |
| arjan | before expanding to other verticals. | 19:49 |
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| thiago_home | restricted use-cases | 19:50 |
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| alterego | Great, and you choose the least interesting market :P | 19:50 |
| Qantourisc | question: does meego use GPU acceleration by any vhange | 19:50 |
| thiago_home | tablet? | 19:50 |
| alterego | arjan: ^ | 19:50 |
| thiago_home | Qantourisc: yes | 19:50 |
| alterego | thiago_home: indeed. | 19:50 |
| troulouliou | hi is it allowded to speak about n950 here ? | 19:50 |
| thiago_home | Qantourisc: OpenGL ES required | 19:50 |
| Qantourisc | thiago_home: ok that explains why it's so blooody slow on a vesa+mesa adapter :) | 19:51 |
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| alterego | heh | 19:51 |
| aissen | thiago_home, arjan : indeed, input might be much simpler on tablet with only full screen apps. It might be another problem on netbook when you start playing with grabs and other features. | 19:51 |
| alterego | Netbook is dead. | 19:52 |
| thiago_home | aissen: the only thing you need a grab for is for menus (netbook/desktop style) and even then I wouldn't sorely miss it | 19:53 |
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| thiago_home | if you have a debug-mode Qt, try running your app with -nograb to see if you feel a difference | 19:53 |
| Qantourisc | alterego: netbook is dead ? how ? | 19:53 |
| alterego | Qantourisc: it's not going anywhere is it? No one is developing it further. | 19:54 |
| alterego | It's dead in meego.com eyes. | 19:54 |
| aissen | thiago_home: will try. | 19:54 |
| Qantourisc | alterego: i see, wel i'm using netbook to get an idea of meego ... | 19:54 |
| ampharos | the interface for the netbook meego seems clunky and clumsy | 19:54 |
| ampharos | the tabs didn't work well | 19:55 |
| Qantourisc | alterego: i actually see it working :p | 19:55 |
| ampharos | and a mobile OS for small devices and medium sized tablets doesn't make much sense on a netbook (same with android) | 19:55 |
| Qantourisc | alterego: correct | 19:55 |
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| Qantourisc | netbook support calldav that's good | 19:57 |
| prizm | my gripe with the meego internet tablet/phone/MP3 player/etc. UI is unspipired | 19:58 |
| Qantourisc | prizm: (imo) does it need to be ? | 19:58 |
| prizm | It looks way too much like iOS | 19:58 |
| Hq` | I | 19:58 |
| Hq` | whoops | 19:58 |
| prizm | there is no real original UI design | 19:59 |
| prizm | just a blatant copycat | 19:59 |
| wmarone | prizm: well, you can always try and create one :) | 19:59 |
| prizm | I hate Qt and C++ ;) | 19:59 |
| Hq` | I have actually been using meego netbook in my s10-3t as my primary computer for a few weeks :P | 19:59 |
| prizm | actually kinda like Qt but C++ must die. | 19:59 |
| wmarone | could be worse, could be Gtk+ and C | 19:59 |
| wmarone | that was painful | 20:00 |
| andyross | prizm: One troll at a time please. Stick with iOS copying, don't charge off into a language war, it dillutes your brand. | 20:00 |
| prizm | I prefer Gtk+ and C# | 20:00 |
| andyross | Now three. :) | 20:00 |
| TSCHAKeee | sigh | 20:00 |
| prizm | I'm not trying to troll. | 20:00 |
| prizm | I love Maemo to death on my N800. | 20:00 |
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| prizm | But I feel MeeGo is a step in the wrong direction. | 20:00 |
| thiago_home | UI-wise? | 20:01 |
| Qantourisc | If I want to cram program X on my meego, can i ? | 20:01 |
| prizm | and direction wise | 20:01 |
| prizm | it's a one-size fits all | 20:01 |
| prizm | you might add a zipper, but it won't fit everything | 20:01 |
| thiago_home | prizm: you cannot have a direction-wise wrong direction | 20:01 |
| troulouliou | wonder if N9 N950 will have the fm emmiter , it is the most used feature on my N900 :) | 20:01 |
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| SpeedEvil | troulouliou: no | 20:03 |
| troulouliou | ho no ... | 20:03 |
| TSCHAKeee | prizm: why don't you reserve your critiques until you've used the device, hmm? ;) | 20:03 |
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| TSCHAKeee | oh wait, that would make sense | 20:03 |
| prizm | OK then | 20:03 |
| TSCHAKeee | and be logical | 20:03 |
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| TSCHAKeee | ;) | 20:03 |
| prizm | I will just get and unlocked one later maybe, sans sim, don't want an expensive contract since I rarely make calls | 20:03 |
| prizm | just use wifi, it's municpial here :D | 20:04 |
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| prizm | mainly why I got the N800 over the N900 | 20:04 |
| prizm | probably should have got the N810 though, no "gorilla hands" problem with the stylus and moar RAM | 20:05 |
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| Qantourisc | How simular is the nedbook to the phone ? | 20:09 |
| Qantourisc | *netbook | 20:09 |
| Qantourisc | Does it also pack evolution etz ? | 20:10 |
| alterego | Qantourisc: they are entire universes apart | 20:10 |
| Qantourisc | alterego: o dear ... so this test is useless ? | 20:10 |
| alterego | If you're trying to get an impression of handset meego on a netbook, yes :)# | 20:11 |
| alterego | Qantourisc: do you have an N900? | 20:11 |
| Qantourisc | alterego: hell no :) | 20:11 |
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| alterego | Oh well :) | 20:12 |
| * javispedro sighs | 20:12 | |
| javispedro | and history repeats! | 20:12 |
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| alterego | javispedro: ? | 20:12 |
| Qantourisc | alterego: I'm looking for a proper Mobile OS :) | 20:13 |
| javispedro | when n900 was released, we got a large influx of "I want to dualboot maemo on my laptop before buying the n900" | 20:13 |
| javispedro | alterego^^ | 20:13 |
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| alterego | Well, they had scratchbox then | 20:13 |
| alterego | I used m5 before I got an N900 in sbox | 20:14 |
| prizm | qemu does support N800/N810 | 20:14 |
| javispedro | which, by then, was hardly an experience | 20:14 |
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| prizm | but I'm pretty sure it's not functional | 20:14 |
| prizm | and besides, to download the firmware needed for emulation you have to have an NIT anyways so that's moot | 20:15 |
| Qantourisc | So, how can i take it for a spin ? :/ | 20:16 |
| prizm | magic | 20:18 |
| Qantourisc | hehe :) | 20:19 |
| prizm | alternatively, now this illegal but | 20:19 |
| prizm | get a mask, a sledgehammer and preferably a gun | 20:19 |
| prizm | smuggle this onto a plane to finland | 20:19 |
| Qantourisc | stealan :p | 20:19 |
| prizm | take the things, and steal N9s out of Nokia HQ | 20:19 |
| prizm | they might run WP7 though | 20:19 |
| hiemanshu | prizm: or go to finland and hire someone | 20:20 |
| prizm | so be careful of Elop's wrath | 20:20 |
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| prizm | I'd get the N950 myself so I have a keyboard though | 20:20 |
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| wmarone | -if- you can get one ;) | 20:21 |
| prizm | wmarone: steal them! | 20:22 |
| prizm | there was a demo video, so at least one exists | 20:22 |
| prizm | check in finnish warehouses | 20:22 |
| prizm | the samiliak stops here | 20:22 |
| Qantourisc | I don't need a N950, just want to see if it suits my needs before it buy sutch an expensive machine | 20:23 |
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| Qantourisc | How are the N950 images build ? | 20:31 |
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| Qantourisc | http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/releases/1.2.0/builddata/image-configs/ <= hmmm | 20:44 |
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| Stskeeps | what of it? | 20:45 |
| DesertZarzamora | are there any updated instructions on how to compile meego for beagleboard ? | 20:45 |
| DesertZarzamora | http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/Meego_on_Beagleboard_from_scratch says it wont work now | 20:45 |
| Qantourisc | Stskeeps: isn't that the clue to building your own ? | 20:45 |
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| Stskeeps | Qantourisc: sure | 20:46 |
| wmarone | DesertZarzamora: I'm pretty sure that, minus the GUI, you could put meego on the beagleboard. kinda moot without the GUI though... | 20:46 |
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| DesertZarzamora | wmarone: i want to test IVI on a beagle | 20:47 |
| wmarone | yeah, you're probably stuck like a lot of other people until (if) Ti decides to supply hardfp SGX drivers | 20:48 |
| MohammadAG | I thought OMAP3 hardfp drivers were there | 20:48 |
| MohammadAG | and that's what the beagle is | 20:48 |
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| wmarone | I think the hardfp drivers are only in the N900 images | 20:49 |
| Stskeeps | redistributable, though | 20:49 |
| Stskeeps | but yeah | 20:49 |
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| javispedro | which, by then, was hardly an experience | 20:54 |
| * javispedro curses | 20:54 | |
| Stskeeps | hm? | 20:54 |
| javispedro | typo | 20:54 |
| javispedro | large one =) | 20:55 |
| javispedro | btw, got to fix that shader build error Stskeeps ? | 20:55 |
| harbaum | Do we have any direct contact to TI? Is texrat connected to them? | 20:55 |
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| Stskeeps | javispedro: obs went into a build avalanche | 20:55 |
| Stskeeps | javispedro: right now i'm trying to make mesa llvmpipe work with fbdev | 20:56 |
| Stskeeps | and i'm not having a very pleasant experience | 20:56 |
| harbaum | n810 again? | 20:56 |
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| Stskeeps | nah, just a hobby project | 20:56 |
| javispedro | Stskeeps: no wonder, you really like bleeding edge. | 20:56 |
| harbaum | i thought n810 _is_ the hobby project | 20:57 |
| Stskeeps | javispedro: sideprojects are good | 20:57 |
| maour | oops! http://lwn.net/Articles/448590/ the N9 phone DOES NOT RUN MEEGO :( | 20:57 |
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| Jaffa | maour: Except it doesn't matter. | 21:00 |
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| wmarone | heh, I'd care more about Arjan's problem with it... were there a handset available with pure MeeGo | 21:01 |
| wmarone | alas... | 21:01 |
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| Jaffa | maour: Wow, hadn't expected that to be the link to *my* comment, but rather arjan\'s | 21:01 |
| Jaffa | wmarone: True. | 21:02 |
| maour | :) | 21:02 |
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| berndhs | so we have precedent for marketing a device as MeeGo when its not MeeGo compliant | 21:04 |
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| berndhs | that could be useful :) | 21:04 |
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| wmarone | berndhs: not really, it could be a one-time exemption | 21:04 |
| berndhs | its still precedent | 21:04 |
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| wmarone | and the LF is under no obligation to follow it | 21:05 |
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| wmarone | especially now that 1.2 is out | 21:05 |
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| berndhs | sure, but it is something future efforts can debate about | 21:05 |
| Jaffa | berndhs: I'm not sure "but Nokia did it" will fly very far in future | 21:05 |
| berndhs | useful, not an automatic exception for everyone | 21:05 |
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| Jaffa | berndhs: Oooh, and can we reopen the debate about open vs. closed forum s/w whilst we're at it? =-p | 21:06 |
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| berndhs | well guyes it IS precedent | 21:06 |
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| berndhs | you can't say it isnt and be serious | 21:06 |
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| wmarone | no one's saying it isn't precedent | 21:06 |
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| berndhs | and how useful it is depends on who tries to use the precedent | 21:06 |
| wmarone | it's just very, very weak and easily rejected | 21:06 |
| berndhs | of course if I use it, it is meaningless | 21:06 |
| berndhs | if soemone with some market clout tries it, that's another story | 21:07 |
| berndhs | it probably weakens the reasons for having compliance | 21:07 |
| markatto | if it became common for non-compliant devices to be marketed as compliant, that would be a Bad Thing | 21:08 |
| berndhs | and it also depends on who does the rejecting | 21:08 |
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| berndhs | I can't reject it, neither can wmarone or Jaffa | 21:08 |
| berndhs | whether non-compliant devices are a Bad Thing depends on what compliance is | 21:09 |
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| Jaffa | berndhs: true, but I can imagine how it goes. I also imagine there was an agreement between LF/Intel/Nokia when MeeGo was founded | 21:09 |
| berndhs | which still isnt' very well defined | 21:09 |
| berndhs | sure Nokia was probably always a special case | 21:10 |
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| npm | https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19683#c1 -- solved ... one more tablet-UX issue | 21:12 |
| MeeGoBot | Bug 19683 nor, Undecided, ---, rusty.lynch, NEW, mud needs to set X-Moblin-Priority=high | 21:12 |
| harbaum | Does harmattan have qt theming? They seem to advertise qt pretty intensively and don't say support is limited to mtf or qml | 21:12 |
| SpeedEvil | Is here or #maemo more appropriate to discuss harmattan. | 21:12 |
| * SpeedEvil wonders. | 21:12 | |
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| harbaum | The thing is that MeeGo currently lacks any qt theming and plain qt apps are basically unusble. | 21:14 |
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| harbaum | It would be nice if there's something to be imported from harmattan | 21:14 |
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| berndhs | harbaum: just do your own branding for your apps | 21:15 |
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| berndhs | harbaum: who cares about somebody's company theme | 21:15 |
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| harbaum | Theming is more than just recoloring buttons and some fancy icons. In this case it e.g. changes the entire ux behaviour | 21:17 |
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| harbaum | For example the menus work completely different under meego theming | 21:18 |
| berndhs | that's bad | 21:18 |
| harbaum | Have you ever used a qt app under desktop linux and under maemo5? They share the same code | 21:19 |
| berndhs | i dont have a maemo device, praise the lord :) | 21:19 |
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| boucman | hello all | 21:20 |
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| * alterego notes he could have said "the babies" .. | 21:21 | |
| javispedro | harbaum: http://depot.javispedro.com/nit/harmattansdk/sdk-plain-qt-app.png | 21:22 |
| harbaum | Looks nice. Can't wait to run CacheMe ... | 21:22 |
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| alterego | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1035018 | 21:23 |
| alterego | Can't believe someone has branded images they stole from the nokia.com website :D | 21:23 |
| hiemanshu | javispedro: QML or Qt? | 21:23 |
| javispedro | hiemanshu: that is "plain qt" as filename says, no dui | 21:23 |
| javispedro | s/dui/meegotouch | 21:23 |
| hiemanshu | javispedro: oh awesome | 21:24 |
| alterego | (or qml) | 21:24 |
| alterego | What does it look like on desktop? :P | 21:24 |
| javispedro | alterego: http://doc.qt.nokia.com/main-snapshot/images/calculator-example.png | 21:24 |
| alterego | neat | 21:25 |
| thiago_home | alterego: "unbelievable success" for Symbian^3? 1.2 GHz dual-core processor? 12 MP camera? | 21:25 |
| alterego | maemo5? | 21:25 |
| alterego | symbian? | 21:25 |
| javispedro | alterego: symbian=ugly as hell, maemo5=hildonized | 21:25 |
| javispedro | but do not have pictures (would be cool I guess) | 21:25 |
| alterego | thiago_home: it's funny, looks like that guy opened up a tmo account just to pimp that article on presumably his own website. | 21:25 |
| alterego | "symbian60v5.com" | 21:26 |
| alterego | awful domain to have :) | 21:26 |
| javispedro | probably spambot | 21:26 |
| javispedro | "64GB Expandable Memory" | 21:26 |
| javispedro | he's wrong, I'm sure it's 64GB eXtended Memory | 21:26 |
| alterego | javispedro: oh that's true, the memory inflates into a life raft. | 21:27 |
| javispedro | that would actually be _useful_ | 21:27 |
| alterego | I just figured out what was missing from the Nokia Connections conference. | 21:27 |
| RST38h | alterego: Elop? | 21:28 |
| * thiago_home sees 450 hours of stand-by time in the spec | 21:28 | |
| thiago_home | 450!? I was happy to get 100 out of my proto. | 21:28 |
| alterego | The "N-Cloud" | 21:29 |
| leinir | thiago_home: but... you were /using/ yours ;) | 21:29 |
| hiemanshu | ugh, why does the SDK installer look so bad :/ | 21:29 |
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| thiago_home | leinir: every now and then, yes | 21:30 |
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| thiago_home | I guess that if you turn EVERYTHING off except for the phone network, you may get 200 hours | 21:30 |
| harbaum | javispedro: does qtcreator for harmanttan include a qemu? | 21:30 |
| javispedro | harbaum: yes | 21:30 |
| thiago_home | I just wish it would turn the wifi off when there's nothing being transmitted | 21:30 |
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| harbaum | k ... | 21:31 |
| javispedro | harbaum: you need to specifically select it, it's under experimental though. | 21:31 |
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| javispedro | thiago_home: do not blame wifi | 21:31 |
| harbaum | javispedro: already found it ... still downloading | 21:31 |
| thiago_home | javispedro: it did increase power consumption by 25-33% | 21:31 |
| javispedro | thiago_home: you could get weeks of battery life on n8x0 with wifi and good router | 21:32 |
| thiago_home | compared to baseline with nothing running except for the phone network | 21:32 |
| SpeedEvil | I've seen current consumption that would lead me to believe that 220 hours on n900 is quite possible, logged into network. | 21:33 |
| SpeedEvil | (with proper flags set in the modem so it only wakes CPU on calls, and suspend-RAM on) | 21:34 |
| thiago_home | well, yeah, in theory, assuming a perfect battery | 21:36 |
| RST38h | Even a less than perfect battery | 21:36 |
| gabrbedd | assuming the battery is perfectly spherical and homogeneous? | 21:36 |
| RST38h | gabrbedd:and suspended in vacuum | 21:36 |
| gabrbedd | with no friction | 21:37 |
| gabrbedd | in a gaussian chamber. | 21:37 |
| thiago_home | inextensible too | 21:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | in liquid helium | 21:37 |
| harbaum | javispedro: How big is this harmattan sdk download? ... it's now at 4% .... | 21:37 |
| hiemanshu | harbaum: around 500-600M | 21:38 |
| javispedro | harbaum: depends on what you chose | 21:38 |
| hiemanshu | harbaum: if downloading all | 21:38 |
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| javispedro | harbaum: note: 100% download is around 35% | 21:38 |
| javispedro | for some reason =) | 21:38 |
| hiemanshu | and at 80% it says installation finished :P | 21:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | modem standby consumption seems to hit lower limit at ~3mA frequently | 21:38 |
| SpeedEvil | In principle, you could take it to 400h - but that would require hax. | 21:39 |
| SpeedEvil | (boot on ring) | 21:39 |
| * thiago_home did get 4mA consumption | 21:40 | |
| thiago_home | R&D mode enabled | 21:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | incl ram refresh and all | 21:40 |
| Aranel_Mobil | installed MeeGo 1.2, where can I get new software for it? looks like Garage doesnt work and software catalog doesnt show any package. | 21:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | ram will eat a bit, 1..2mA | 21:41 |
| SpeedEvil | You can refresh only a quarter of RAM, and save a bit. | 21:41 |
| SpeedEvil | But... | 21:41 |
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| javispedro | SpeedEvil: that's where the new physical memory defragmentation linux feature comes in! | 21:44 |
| SpeedEvil | To get any saving from refreshing part of RAM, you pretty much need to be in suspend-RAM | 21:44 |
| SpeedEvil | ^significant | 21:45 |
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| harbaum | javispedro: I am not sure if you are kidding, but one could actually clean up ram | 21:46 |
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| javispedro | not kidding, it is really implemented, and used for transparent large pages | 21:46 |
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| javispedro | (because if you introduce differently sized frames you introduce fragmentation, so you need a defragmenter...) | 21:47 |
| lcuk | javispedro, just assume the party escort submission position | 21:47 |
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| alterego | Heh | 21:47 |
| Aranel_Mobil | where can I get new software for MeeGo 1.2 (ideapad) | 21:47 |
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| alterego | It's going to be interesting, I can see myself carrying a fair few devices around with me soon. | 21:48 |
| alterego | N8, N950 & N900 | 21:48 |
| Arkam | evening everyone | 21:48 |
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| alterego | As well as laptop and possibly tablet (depending on mood) | 21:48 |
| * javispedro shoots portal to lcuk 's house, steals prototypes, forces #maemo members to fight in order to win the prototypes | 21:48 | |
| lcuk | make them cooperate | 21:48 |
| * n8willis needs an irc client that allows the highlighting of different nicks on different networks | 21:48 | |
| lcuk | javispedro, I showed alterego my prototype on sunday | 21:48 |
| * alterego chuckles | 21:49 | |
| alterego | It was cutting edge. | 21:49 |
| * lcuk has carried it around and shown it to only a few select people | 21:49 | |
| alterego | We need to market and deploy that .. | 21:49 |
| javispedro | alterego: I bet it was on a cardboard box instead of plastic | 21:49 |
| lcuk | oh, it was plastic | 21:49 |
| alterego | javispedro: that was one of the cutting edge ideas I had, real disposable hardware :) | 21:49 |
| alterego | And eco friendly. | 21:49 |
| lcuk | runs on liquid | 21:49 |
| lcuk | fuel cells! | 21:50 |
| alterego | on going call screen looks kinda crappy: http://www.developer.nokia.com/swipe/ux/pages/Communication.html | 21:50 |
| Qantourisc | n8willis: iirssi ? | 21:50 |
| Arkam | does anyone know where I can find an active irc channel about tegra and especially linux for tegra? | 21:50 |
| lcuk | quesiton about n9: | 21:50 |
| * n8willis goes by n8 on some others | 21:50 | |
| lcuk | do fingerprint smears get noticed more | 21:50 |
| n8willis | I'll investigate it, Qantourisc | 21:50 |
| lcuk | hi n8willis | 21:50 |
| Qantourisc | n8willis: but it's purely cli ... | 21:51 |
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| n8willis | whazzup lcuk | 21:51 |
| * lcuk still waiting for real baby | 21:51 | |
| Arkam | Got it, thc everyone | 21:51 |
| lcuk | glad silion/gorilla one is out in the wild | 21:51 |
| Arkam | thx sorry | 21:51 |
| Arkam | bye | 21:51 |
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| javispedro | alterego: call screen looks cool imho, also incoming call notification | 21:51 |
| ShadowJK | does touchscreen work with screen protector still? | 21:51 |
| lcuk | the ui does indeed look slick | 21:52 |
| lcuk | and in all demos seem to date, it has gotten over the bluenail thing | 21:52 |
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| * Qantourisc fears the most meego will end up dead ... otherwise it's looking verry promising | 21:53 | |
| ShadowJK | bluenail? | 21:53 |
| lcuk | ShadowJK, at the n8 launch | 21:53 |
| lcuk | there was a nokia symbian demonstrator lady with blue nails | 21:53 |
| lcuk | who used a real keypad all her life | 21:53 |
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| berndhs | clearly it's the wrong shade of pink :) | 21:53 |
| lcuk | very fast actions | 21:53 |
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| lcuk | on the touchscreen only the ui did not keep up | 21:53 |
| lcuk | the n9 seems much higher class | 21:54 |
| MohammadAG | ShadowJK, why wouldn't it? | 21:54 |
| ShadowJK | you'd expect things to react fast, or atleast you wouldn't expect to have to wait for slow UIs and transitions and shit to play out before device accepts next input | 21:54 |
| lcuk | ShadowJK, she raced ahead and the ui did not manage it | 21:54 |
| lcuk | she used her nokia like her everyday phone | 21:55 |
| lcuk | which was a nokia because on another keypad model it flew along | 21:55 |
| lcuk | I highlighted this testing scenario for a number of weeks | 21:55 |
| * Qantourisc usually disables all transitions if he can ... they are pointless | 21:55 | |
| ShadowJK | so the UI slowed her down.. | 21:56 |
| lcuk | yes hold on there are videos | 21:56 |
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| * timoph wonders how many times word "nokia" has been said today in this channel | 21:56 | |
| lcuk | it was cringeworthy | 21:56 |
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| Stskeeps | timoph: will be a spike on the irc stats | 21:56 |
| timoph | yeah | 21:56 |
| lcuk | n8 got much better | 21:57 |
| timoph | how come? | 21:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | N9? | 21:58 |
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| lcuk | javispedro, have you ever written pseudocode | 22:03 |
| javispedro | lcuk: I'm a grad student now, many times. | 22:03 |
| CosmoHill | grad student? | 22:04 |
| lcuk | lol | 22:04 |
| lcuk | http://liqbase.net/liq.20110621_200232.codebox4.scr.png | 22:04 |
| berndhs | many people write pseudocode and then patch it until it's C | 22:04 |
| lcuk | berndhs, heh | 22:04 |
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| lcuk | i start lots of modules as comment blocks | 22:05 |
| CosmoHill | last time I wrote pseudocode it ended up being fully functional php | 22:05 |
| javispedro | I personally just write lots of empty function stubs and then write them. If I remember. Otherwise I fill the stubs when the program crashes ;P | 22:05 |
| dm8tbr | that's a bash.org worthy quote right there! | 22:05 |
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| lcuk | lol javispedro | 22:06 |
| lcuk | that was how visual basic was invented | 22:06 |
| Stskeeps | javispedro: did you see my wayland WSEGL btw? | 22:06 |
| javispedro | wayland is completely outside of my knowledge area :P | 22:06 |
| Stskeeps | alright | 22:06 |
| lcuk | javispedro, wayland is just like an emulator | 22:07 |
| lcuk | but the emulations are real binaries :P | 22:07 |
| javispedro | more like an X11 emulator ;) | 22:07 |
| lcuk | liq* emulator ;) | 22:08 |
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| javispedro | I bet this what is fun about wayland. Seems understandable. | 22:11 |
| berndhs | what's better about wayland other than its faster ? better API than X11 ? | 22:11 |
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| lcuk | simpler api | 22:11 |
| lcuk | direct mode compositing | 22:11 |
| lcuk | ie shared memory | 22:12 |
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| Qantourisc | meego uses quite the elaborate build-tool ... mic2 .... still installing stuff to make it run ... | 22:13 |
| lcuk | is anyone asking: can harmattan scale to different form factors? | 22:13 |
| lcuk | or is it specific to the phone | 22:14 |
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| Stskeeps | check the themes for yourself | 22:14 |
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| lcuk | would not know where to start | 22:15 |
| Stskeeps | harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool | 22:15 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 22:15 |
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| * javispedro does a quick test by running it under 1024x768 | 22:16 | |
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| javispedro | hum, fail, mtf hardcodes size | 22:16 |
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| inean | stsKeeps: python-2.6 and pyside :) thanks, you make me happy | 22:18 |
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| Stskeeps | javispedro: screenshot please | 22:19 |
| javispedro | na, found it under MDeviceStyle | 22:19 |
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| javispedro | I mean, .css file. | 22:20 |
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| javispedro | there are references to lower resolutions like N95's 240x320 though | 22:22 |
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| lcuk | javispedro, in original liqbase it includes gameboy resolution | 22:23 |
| lcuk | the xvideo being res changing was awesome then | 22:23 |
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| javispedro | seriooouuusly | 22:27 |
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| javispedro | using CSS for definining the swipe pattern recognition attributes? | 22:28 |
| javispedro | in the future I suggest destroying gconf&dconf altogether and just use cascading style^Wconfiguration sheets | 22:29 |
| lcuk | couldv been coded in | 22:29 |
| MohammadAG | javispedro, can you check if adding more pages is possible | 22:29 |
| * MohammadAG has a few things in mind | 22:29 | |
| TSCHAKeee | how do I make qmlviewer use software rendering? | 22:30 |
| MohammadAG | also, is discussing Harmattan on #meego on topic? | 22:30 |
| javispedro | might actually make sense. you could have a generic all_applications { show_splash_screen: 1; } and then a rule that says mail { show_splash_screen: 0; } ;) | 22:30 |
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| TSCHAKeee | right now i am running a very basic qml app on a gma500 and the kinetic scroll pane is terrible | 22:30 |
| Qantourisc | Error: You must run mic-image-creator as root <=WTF ? | 22:32 |
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| Qantourisc | hmmmm mic2 is broken: options_from_ks | 22:35 |
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| hiemanshu | whats a good netbook or tablet to get for dev stuff? | 22:40 |
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| lcuk | hiemanshu, the lenovo ideapad has had good solid testing | 22:41 |
| lcuk | other devices seem to have greater/lesser luck with things like keyboards etc | 22:41 |
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| Qantourisc | 'options_from_ks' is not defined <= any suggestions ? | 22:41 |
| hiemanshu | lcuk: a specific model? | 22:41 |
| Qantourisc | when trying to run mic-image-creator | 22:42 |
| lcuk | hiemanshu, 1000ish of the S10-3t model were given out to conference participants | 22:42 |
| lcuk | at Dublin 2010 | 22:42 |
| hiemanshu | lcuk: dammit, I want one :/ | 22:42 |
| lcuk | tardis | 22:42 |
| lcuk | thought that might be harder than ordering a computer | 22:43 |
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| hiemanshu | lcuk: any tablets? | 22:43 |
| lcuk | i have some paracetamol | 22:44 |
| lcuk | the s10 is convertable slate | 22:44 |
| lcuk | the exopc is another slate | 22:44 |
| * javispedro needs some paracetamol | 22:44 | |
| * lcuk needs a contract | 22:44 | |
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| hiemanshu | lcuk: the dev versions of exopc still being given out? | 22:46 |
| lcuk | idk | 22:46 |
| * hiemanshu needs to buy one | 22:46 | |
| lcuk | I don't consider slates without a keyboard to be computers ;) | 22:46 |
| lcuk | others do | 22:46 |
| lcuk | but I tend to expect real keys sometimes | 22:46 |
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| hiemanshu | well I have BT keyboards | 22:46 |
| flailingmonkey | the more i learn about the N950 device, I can understand why it wasn't going to cut it. the specs alone, it wasn't the top of the top | 22:47 |
| lcuk | i don't mind convertable slate | 22:47 |
| lcuk | I dev on most of my hardware | 22:47 |
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| lcuk | flailingmonkey, ? | 22:47 |
| alterego | flailingmonkey: and the n9 is? | 22:47 |
| lcuk | you do not need to have 10000cc engine to travel faast | 22:47 |
| flailingmonkey | the n9 is not for me either | 22:47 |
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| alterego | m'hmm well then :P | 22:48 |
| berndhs | flailingmonkey: oh but the pink one would go so well with your purse :) | 22:48 |
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| hiemanshu | lcuk: except my iPhone, every other device I own is a dev device | 22:49 |
| flailingmonkey | my hope would be that they take keyboard/hinge and pair that with truly leading hardware | 22:49 |
| hiemanshu | time to get one for meego | 22:49 |
| lcuk | hiemanshu, your iphone is a development device | 22:49 |
| lcuk | it will not be completed until meego runs on it. | 22:49 |
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| timoph | lcuk: :D | 22:50 |
| flailingmonkey | berndhs: and with it I could probably get the attention of many girls down at the bar :p | 22:50 |
| hiemanshu | lcuk: well I dont do dev on it, but sure, I could lend it anyone wants me to test something :P | 22:50 |
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| lcuk | hiemanshu, I have a vewrsion of n900fly that can run on iphone | 22:50 |
| lcuk | can I test it? | 22:50 |
| hiemanshu | lcuk: sure :P | 22:50 |
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| lcuk | in all seriousness | 22:51 |
| lcuk | I have been waiting for someone to get meego onto iphone | 22:51 |
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| lcuk | because I want to see if liqbase really can go faster than apple | 22:51 |
| javispedro | MohammadAG: source of launcher and home app is at http://meego.gitorious.org/meegotouch/meegotouch-home/trees; cannot really find any place where you could add a new page | 22:51 |
| hiemanshu | lcuk: well the only problem being, there is no openiboot for the 3GS | 22:52 |
| * lcuk might have a bash at theming liqbase to harmattan | 22:52 | |
| javispedro | though there seems to be some kind of extension support | 22:52 |
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| lcuk | hiemanshu, | 22:52 |
| lcuk | hy not? | 22:52 |
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| lcuk | can't linux be booted on iphone | 22:52 |
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| * lcuk needs a new keyboard | 22:52 | |
| hiemanshu | sure, but not on the 3GS/4 | 22:52 |
| hiemanshu | only on the 3G/2G | 22:52 |
| lcuk | screw those | 22:53 |
| lcuk | fine by me | 22:53 |
| MohammadAG | javispedro, those are the Harmattan launchers? | 22:53 |
| hiemanshu | I dont have the older ones | 22:53 |
| lcuk | can we get meego on it? | 22:53 |
| MohammadAG | Android runs on the iPhone, build on that and you could get MeeGo on it | 22:53 |
| javispedro | MohammadAG: meegotouchhome 0.30.0-1+0m6 | 22:53 |
| javispedro | oh | 22:53 |
| hiemanshu | lcuk: maybe if I find my 1st iPod Touch, I could try meego on it, I got busybox and a few other stuff running just fine | 22:53 |
| hiemanshu | MohammadAG: not on the 3GS/4, still under dev | 22:54 |
| lcuk | cool! | 22:54 |
| lcuk | meego on iphone :D | 22:54 |
| MohammadAG | javispedro, I'll ask again, are you sure it's the Maemo 6/Harmattan one? | 22:54 |
| javispedro | that's the "oh" part | 22:54 |
| MohammadAG | :p | 22:55 |
| javispedro | it's very similar though. | 22:55 |
| javispedro | either way, it's on stable repo, sources included. | 22:55 |
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| lcuk | i filed bug 19616 the other day | 22:56 |
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| MeeGoBot | Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19616 nor, Undecided, ---, jerry.yu, NEW, [ideapad] Video Out using VGA cable does not support mirroring | 22:56 |
| MohammadAG | the M6 one? | 22:56 |
| lcuk | anybody know how I would make it work | 22:56 |
| hiemanshu | wow, in india the s10-3t is more expensive than my current notebook :/ | 22:56 |
| javispedro | MohammadAG: yep, harmattan | 22:56 |
| javispedro | hiemanshu: noooooooooooooooooooot worth it. | 22:56 |
| MohammadAG | yay, so adding more than 3 pages is possible | 22:56 |
| Qantourisc | Who should replace @BUILD_ID@ with something sane ? | 22:57 |
| hiemanshu | javispedro: not buying it :P | 22:57 |
| hiemanshu | javispedro: wouldn't mind donations though :P | 22:57 |
| javispedro | MohammadAG: by replacing source :P | 22:57 |
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| javispedro | MohammadAG: booooooring unless it works with that extension support it has | 22:57 |
| javispedro | but I do not understand why I'd want to draw more than one wallpaper at the same time | 22:58 |
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| berndhs | javispedro: dual head phone ? | 22:58 |
| Alison_Chaiken | "the N9 does prompt us to ask why the company has opted against making MeeGo its long-term smartphone OS of choice." http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/21/nokia-n9-first-hands-on/ | 22:58 |
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| flailingmonkey | no word on n9 having any sort of usb hostmode type supper right? | 22:58 |
| Jaffa | Alison_Chaiken: As has it prompted us all. Especially since "3 devices by the end of 2012" doesn't really stack up | 22:59 |
| Alison_Chaiken | Engadget loves the N9. I take comfort where I can find it. | 23:00 |
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| lcuk | Alison_Chaiken, perhaps it came from the other side, of Microsoft wanting something specific | 23:00 |
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| lcuk | besides though, having nokia devices hosting different operating systems is something we want! | 23:01 |
| lcuk | maemo faught against that forever | 23:01 |
| SpeedEvil | Dualboot windows/meego would be really awesome in many ways | 23:01 |
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| fiferboy | Interesting, plain Qt apps are mostly skinned in Harmattan SDK | 23:01 |
| lcuk | not dualboot | 23:01 |
| lcuk | but consumer choice. | 23:01 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: I mean alternate, yes | 23:01 |
| lcuk | first boot decision | 23:02 |
| lcuk | something I always spoke about | 23:02 |
| lcuk | buy phone, turn it on | 23:02 |
| lcuk | "symbian/meego/windows" | 23:02 |
| Jaffa | fiferboy: Interesting | 23:02 |
| * lcuk getting a c5-03 soon | 23:03 | |
| fiferboy | It is actually a nice skin, too. One I have never seen before | 23:03 |
| lcuk | nice resistive symbian :) | 23:03 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: Naah - symbian/meego/windows. | 23:04 |
| lcuk | SpeedEvil, what then? | 23:04 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: Straight up is symbian, upside down is windows, and landscape is meego. | 23:04 |
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| SpeedEvil | Does this count as disclosure, if I want to patent this idea? | 23:05 |
| lcuk | yes | 23:05 |
| lcuk | or its code only | 23:05 |
| lcuk | i am not sure | 23:05 |
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| lcuk | i have allowed many ideas to seep out in code | 23:05 |
| * lcuk will be stopping that soon enough | 23:05 | |
| * lcuk needs an office to put most ideas into | 23:06 | |
| lcuk | Jaffa, somebody already said, what about the n10 | 23:06 |
| lcuk | wanna get tsg organised towards a proper open meego effort | 23:06 |
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| anidel | thanks for the retweet lcuk | 23:08 |
| lcuk | anidel, it is important! | 23:08 |
| anidel | It is indeed! | 23:08 |
| lcuk | the open meego is what we need to work on | 23:09 |
| flailingmonkey | it would be nice to have great keyboard/hinge, but a dual-core chipset, with hdmi and microSD | 23:09 |
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| flailingmonkey | the n9000 | 23:09 |
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| lcuk | n_over_9000 | 23:10 |
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| Qantourisc | Is it ok to say the mic2 build are a PITA to get going ? | 23:10 |
| flailingmonkey | n9001 | 23:10 |
| leinir | it's... over nine thousand?! | 23:11 |
| anidel | wow CE tomorrow??? let's hope! | 23:11 |
| lcuk | Jaffa, | 23:12 |
| lcuk | latest mwkn link goes to 770 tuner | 23:12 |
| anidel | yeah :) | 23:12 |
| lcuk | rather than | 23:12 |
| Jaffa | Hmm, with Harmattan targets in Qt SDK do I need the Harmattan platform SDK *as well*? Doesn't seem to start qemu... | 23:12 |
| lcuk | Devel: Information on #N9 Community Device Programme http://is.gd/urAmKj #maemo | 23:12 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: URL? | 23:12 |
| anidel | I was puzzled | 23:12 |
| Jaffa | Grr | 23:13 |
| Jaffa | Ta | 23:13 |
| anidel | http://is.gd/urAmKj -> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=3597 | 23:13 |
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| Jaffa | anidel: Fixed. Ta. | 23:15 |
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| anidel | jaffa nothing | 23:15 |
| lcuk | Gary Birkett lcuk | 23:16 |
| lcuk | 23:16 | |
| lcuk | Yes indeed. Developing markets cannot afford latest tech, they should not miss out on latest software. @jukkaeklund @h0pbeat @RevdKathy | 23:16 |
| lcuk | crap | 23:16 |
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| berndhs | why can't the markets afford the latest tech ? | 23:17 |
| lcuk | berndhs, for every ferarri on the road there are 1000 fords. | 23:18 |
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| berndhs | no i mean the developing markets | 23:18 |
| Qantourisc | berndhs: is that a real question ? | 23:18 |
| berndhs | you can buy a ferrari in Bangla Desh | 23:18 |
| lcuk | but the majority cannot afford one | 23:18 |
| Qantourisc | berndhs: but only a verry select few can affort | 23:18 |
| lcuk | which was the point | 23:18 |
| berndhs | right, and the majority bcan't afford a ferrari in the UK either, so whats the difference ? | 23:19 |
| lcuk | who said anything about a country? I said a market | 23:19 |
| lcuk | you are the one that assumed I was not meaning the UK for instance | 23:19 |
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| berndhs | whats your definition of a market then ? | 23:20 |
| lcuk | selling a product | 23:20 |
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| berndhs | well lets not get into how developed the UK is or isn't :) | 23:20 |
| fiferboy | Hmm, even desktop Qt apps run without TOO much trouble in Harmattan SDK | 23:20 |
| lcuk | point I was making and accidentally pasted here was that the latest software should run on regular existing hardware | 23:20 |
| lcuk | fiferboy, that is expected | 23:21 |
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| lcuk | the qt promise has to be made to work well | 23:21 |
| fiferboy | lcuk: Actually, I may have spoken too soon | 23:21 |
| berndhs | yes unless the software does something special on special devices | 23:21 |
| lcuk | and lots of very dedicated people try every day to ensure that | 23:21 |
| fiferboy | Looks like serious problems with check boxed and combo boxes at least | 23:21 |
| lcuk | bug them if it doesnt run | 23:21 |
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| Mek | well, regular qt on normal meego handset has never worked properly... | 23:21 |
| lcuk | lol mek :P | 23:22 |
| lcuk | shush | 23:22 |
| fiferboy | Could be a scratchbox themeing bug, that wouldn't be unheard of | 23:22 |
| lcuk | fiferboy, | 23:22 |
| fiferboy | Mek: Exactly why I was surprised | 23:22 |
| lcuk | I was once asked to make configuration dialog for liqflow | 23:22 |
| lcuk | with combo boxes | 23:22 |
| fiferboy | But Maemo6 is much more grounded in Qt, I suppose | 23:22 |
| lcuk | i ended up making a whole tag cloud | 23:22 |
| lcuk | and now can make anything flow around | 23:22 |
| * lcuk sees ideas drift around peacefully | 23:23 | |
| Qantourisc | berndhs: let me rephrase, in the uk not everyone can affort a ferrari, but in the developing countries not everyone can even affort ANY car. | 23:23 |
| lcuk | not everyone can afford a phone | 23:23 |
| lcuk | let alone the latest and greatest | 23:23 |
| berndhs | so what? you can offer the highest tech phones in the most backward markets | 23:23 |
| * lcuk will give n8x0 proper usecases back | 23:23 | |
| Qantourisc | berndhs: the price of a phone there, would cost you half a car in comparison ? | 23:23 |
| lcuk | for daily use they are perfect | 23:23 |
| berndhs | especially if you don't have to count on selling a lot of them | 23:24 |
| lcuk | my n810 is my calendar | 23:24 |
| lcuk | and clock | 23:24 |
| fiferboy | Apparently the SDK has major problems loading my big dialog and wants to close my application | 23:24 |
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| berndhs | a good phone can have more utility than a basic car | 23:24 |
| lcuk | fiferboy, if I get you a dataset | 23:24 |
| lcuk | that is not in a database | 23:24 |
| SpeedEvil | Depends if you're in an area with good transport. | 23:25 |
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| SpeedEvil | Otherwise - not really. | 23:25 |
| lcuk | what would it cost me to ask for a qt version to be developed | 23:25 |
| Qantourisc | berndhs: and in devoloping countries ... hardly the case :) | 23:25 |
| berndhs | and especially, a good phone has more utility than half a car | 23:25 |
| lcuk | whtat uses a database and professional data | 23:25 |
| berndhs | with a good phone you can sell your products without driving all over the place | 23:25 |
| fiferboy | lcuk: Not sure I follow | 23:25 |
| lcuk | fiferboy, my sketches | 23:26 |
| SpeedEvil | berndhs: that assumes the other guy has a car | 23:26 |
| lcuk | they are flat files | 23:26 |
| Qantourisc | lcuk: a proffesion developer ? | 23:26 |
| lcuk | and the tagging is flat files also | 23:26 |
| berndhs | no it doesn't | 23:26 |
| lcuk | i want qt implementation | 23:26 |
| lcuk | using databases | 23:26 |
| berndhs | you're assuming that driving is necessary | 23:26 |
| lcuk | (since I know that post processing is easier) | 23:26 |
| fiferboy | lcuk: Ah. You are converting liqbase to Qt? | 23:26 |
| lcuk | i once tried making sqlite database version | 23:27 |
| berndhs | sell stuff over the phone, deliver by donkey | 23:27 |
| lcuk | but i am poor at coding | 23:27 |
| lcuk | yes fiferboy | 23:27 |
| fiferboy | And want to swtich from flat files to database? | 23:27 |
| lcuk | yes | 23:27 |
| Qantourisc | berndhs: you strike me as a troll now ... | 23:27 |
| lcuk | but i have performance constraints | 23:27 |
| berndhs | no i'm offering alternative thoughts | 23:27 |
| lcuk | on data access and stuff | 23:27 |
| lcuk | and it would likely be closed source | 23:27 |
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| Qantourisc | berndhs: a ok | 23:28 |
| lcuk | fiferboy, I would need to do some investigation to see which framework/model will work | 23:28 |
| lcuk | I have been offered some advice from WP perspective | 23:29 |
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| lcuk | which is an appealing direction | 23:29 |
| fiferboy | lcuk: Yes, depending on the amount of multi-table queries you use it may be worthwhile wirting your own model | 23:29 |
| lcuk | i personally want to keep the sketches as flat files | 23:29 |
| lcuk | with just the meta data indexed in | 23:29 |
| lcuk | fiferboy, | 23:30 |
| lcuk | http://liqbase.net/grid/grid_readable.png | 23:30 |
| lcuk | I scanned every sketch and tag and media file | 23:30 |
| lcuk | and produced a whole clickable live grid | 23:30 |
| lcuk | I can click on any date period or box to see the contents | 23:30 |
| lcuk | but generating that table takes 2 minutes | 23:30 |
| lcuk | loading a cache file is instantanious | 23:30 |
| lcuk | I used to do this sort of data modelling on million+ record databases, hence knowing the need | 23:31 |
| fiferboy | lcuk: Yeah, looks like a database could help you there | 23:31 |
| povlinski | 250 n950s :( | 23:31 |
| Qantourisc | I hate mic ... | 23:31 |
| povlinski | i hope meego for the archos a70 becomes usable | 23:32 |
| lcuk | fiferboy, the tagcloud looks pretty though http://liqbase.net/liq.20110612_225308.tagcloud_system.scr.png | 23:32 |
| lcuk | that is instant loading! | 23:32 |
| lcuk | just then filtering between all sketches and those in/out of the tag is odd | 23:32 |
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| fiferboy | lcuk: So are you looking for help constructing a database or coding a Qt implementation? | 23:33 |
| lcuk | they go hand in hand | 23:33 |
| lcuk | it is difficult to consider asking people to code directly in liqbase | 23:34 |
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| lcuk | as much as I want to I know it will be more saleable to do qt based development | 23:34 |
| lcuk | fiferboy, I have the core sketching class in qt | 23:34 |
| fiferboy | lcuk: Using a graphics scene or something similar? | 23:35 |
| lcuk | fiferboy, technical considerations would not be my game | 23:35 |
| lcuk | as long as performance on my devices was equal or greater than liqbase currently :) | 23:35 |
| alterego | Did anyone else notice the lack of documents to go? | 23:35 |
| lcuk | fiferboy, I would want to be overseeing rather than directly coding implementation | 23:36 |
| lcuk | so if QML is usable and fast enough, great | 23:36 |
| Jaffa | alterego: Spec sheet says email app can open various formats including OOo and Office | 23:36 |
| lcuk | but if not, the lower qt layers might suffice | 23:36 |
| alterego | Oh, interesting. | 23:36 |
| alterego | Fair does | 23:36 |
| lcuk | I have been told qtquick2 should support the line drawing I need | 23:36 |
| lcuk | fiferboy, it might be that multiple implementations grow out of this | 23:37 |
| SpeedEvil | :) | 23:37 |
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| alterego | You'd want a QML based UI with the sketch canvas as a C++ implemented QML component. | 23:37 |
| fiferboy | lcuk: By multiple implementations meaning different interfaces for different UX's? | 23:37 |
| alterego | Easy peasy | 23:37 |
| fiferboy | lcuk: alterego sounds like he knows what he is talking about | 23:38 |
| lcuk | yes fiferboy | 23:38 |
| lcuk | but getting alterego from an "easy-peasy" to an implementation of saleable product is tough! | 23:39 |
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| fiferboy | lcuk: I could probably be of assistance for Qt database coding, but graphics in general are not my forte | 23:40 |
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| lcuk | fiferboy, sure tis good to discuss the processes needed for getting real apps out there | 23:40 |
| alterego | lcuk: all you have to do is ask :) | 23:41 |
| alterego | And give me a few screen grabs of each state you want, and tell me how you want the the transitions to work. | 23:41 |
| fiferboy | alterego: It is dangerous to make offers like that in an open channel | 23:42 |
| fiferboy | I have a bunch of GUIs I need to convert into QML | 23:42 |
| alterego | Heh | 23:42 |
| alterego | I've already told lcuk I'd do it for him. | 23:42 |
| lcuk | alterego, I spoke to you at weekend | 23:42 |
| lcuk | I will speak to Greg in a few days | 23:42 |
| alterego | Cool, | 23:42 |
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| lcuk | it is hard to concentrate atm though with baby | 23:42 |
| alterego | lcuk: I understand, lets get that out of the way first m'kay? | 23:43 |
| lcuk | errr not baby here | 23:43 |
| lcuk | baby wait | 23:43 |
| alterego | :) | 23:43 |
| lcuk | yeah hence am just trying to get words out whilst I can | 23:43 |
| lcuk | intent hopefully the right direction | 23:43 |
| fiferboy | lcuk: You are going to be very busy soon :) | 23:43 |
| lcuk | yeah fiferboy | 23:43 |
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| * lbt_nur says "hi" | 23:44 | |
| lcuk | alterego, clicked "Smile" tag, drew a big wide curve and watching the smiles float around | 23:45 |
| lcuk | hi lbt_nur | 23:45 |
| fiferboy | lbt_away: Hi there! | 23:46 |
| fiferboy | lbt_nur: Hi as well | 23:46 |
| lbt_nur | *g* | 23:46 |
| lbt_nur | fiferboy: so are you coaching lcuk? | 23:46 |
| * alterego installs harmattan sdk | 23:46 | |
| fiferboy | lbt_nur: Coaching in databases to babies? | 23:46 |
| lbt_nur | alterego: nah ... just use the OBS | 23:46 |
| lbt_nur | fiferboy: yup :D | 23:46 |
| fiferboy | lbt_nur: Is OBS geared up for Harmattan? | 23:47 |
| lbt_nur | yep | 23:47 |
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| fiferboy | lbt_nur: Awesome! | 23:47 |
| fiferboy | Now I need to re-polish my deb package skills | 23:47 |
| lbt_nur | we asked about it last march ... it's been ticking away since then | 23:47 |
| lbt_nur | niels is driving it now though | 23:48 |
| fiferboy | lbt_nur: I heard rumours about OBS being somewhat transparent as to what it is packaging | 23:48 |
| lbt_nur | very much so | 23:48 |
| fiferboy | Meaning it could generate an RPM or Deb from a single source | 23:48 |
| lbt_nur | s/or/and/ | 23:48 |
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| fiferboy | lbt_nur: Does this still require a debian directory and spec file for each source? | 23:49 |
| lbt_nur | yes | 23:49 |
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| lbt_nur | it's not magic | 23:49 |
| lbt_nur | just close | 23:49 |
| fiferboy | lbt_nur: But I want my magic! | 23:49 |
| * lbt_nur waves his wand | 23:49 | |
| * fiferboy goes to add Harmattan targets to his OBS repo | 23:49 | |
| lbt_nur | (and waits for DawnFoster to appear) | 23:49 |
| DawnFoster | hmmm? | 23:49 |
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| lbt_nur | we wanted some magic ... who better ;) | 23:50 |
| fiferboy | It is magic! | 23:50 |
| DawnFoster | ha :) | 23:50 |
| lbt_nur | I usually use doves... | 23:50 |
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| fiferboy | lbt_nur: Is there a specific project I should add to my repo for Harmattan? | 23:52 |
| lbt_nur | fiferboy: so look at Fremantle first .. that's working | 23:52 |
| lbt_nur | they only announced H sdk today afaik | 23:52 |
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| lbt_nur | so for legal reasons we're doing it on maemo.org... then we'll provide a link from the meego obs | 23:52 |
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| lbt_nur | much like we provide a link from c.obs to main obs and suse obs | 23:53 |
| fiferboy | Ah, I'll have to keep up with that progress | 23:53 |
| lbt_nur | yeah ... we need to upgrade this OBS RSN (maybe coming w'end) | 23:53 |
| lbt_nur | oh damn | 23:54 |
| lbt_nur | oh, it's not wednesday yet ... nm | 23:54 |
| lcuk | DawnFoster, \o | 23:54 |
| lcuk | so I guess we know a few more of the werewolves now | 23:54 |
| DawnFoster | I'm a villager | 23:54 |
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| lbt_nur | whilst I recall.... who thinks we should have a public meego-infra channel for doing IT work/dev | 23:55 |
| lcuk | DawnFoster, how would we go about gaining intel hands on help for a project which will still be strong on arm | 23:55 |
| fiferboy | Talk to you guys later | 23:55 |
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| lcuk | we have immense problems with n900-ce and intel assigned addresses for it | 23:56 |
| lcuk | nn fiferboy | 23:56 |
| lbt_nur | addresses? | 23:56 |
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| lcuk | lbt_nur, was talking to timoph about bugs earlier | 23:56 |
| lcuk | or he was asking | 23:56 |
| Qantourisc | BTW what's the batery time on these pupies btw ? | 23:56 |
| lcuk | hold on, lemme find out | 23:56 |
| lcuk | channels are noisey so cannot remember where discussion was | 23:57 |
| lbt_nur | IP addresses? not sure why that's an Intel issue | 23:57 |
| lcuk | but finding a way for @intel people to be helpful even on arm things would be great ;) | 23:57 |
| lbt_nur | almost nothing about CE is arm-related | 23:57 |
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| lcuk | <timoph> hmmh. who to assign ce settings bugs since handset ux -> settings goes to @intel by default | 23:58 |
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| lbt_nur | email addresses | 23:58 |
| lcuk | <timoph> lcuk: yep. it's going to have [CE] and platform set to N900 but speeds up the process if I'd know who would be the right guy for assignee | 23:58 |
| * lcuk trying to see through the n9ness to actual work stuff | 23:59 | |
| lbt_nur | well, this is where CE should have its own BZ | 23:59 |
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| lbt_nur | if it wants to be a vendor then it should | 23:59 |
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