IRC log of #meego for Monday, 2011-06-20

*** DamnedMeego is now known as Meego_aggony		00:00
Meego_aggony	better?	00:00
iekku	:D	00:00
vgrade	image or kickstart?	00:00
Meego_aggony	Anyway, if I can borrow your ear for a second or two. I'm attempting to install Meego onto an Asus 1005HA which is on the compatible list. I have two USB drives here, and I've used the byte-copy software recommended on their website. No matter what I do, or how I adjust the BIOS settings I can't get the thing to boot.	00:01
vgrade	what image?	00:01
Meego_aggony	meego-netbook-ia32-chrome-1.2.0.img	00:02
vgrade	and your using something like win32diskimager	00:04
vgrade	and you image is from where	00:04
vgrade	what messages do you get when you boot	00:05
Meego_aggony	Directly from the meego website. I accepted the user agreement and everything to download it.	00:05
vgrade	link?	00:05
Meego_aggony	No messages, it simply doesn't detect the key as a bootable device.	00:05
vgrade	how did you write the image?	00:05
vgrade	I'm not familiar with the asus bios, what option did you ue to enable it to boot from isb	00:06
Meego_aggony	I loaded win32diskimager, selected the image file using the blue folder button, selected the USB drive, then clicked on write.	00:06
vgrade	usb sorry	00:06
vgrade	what was the link?	00:06
Meego_aggony	Yes, I went into the boot menu and selected the usb key as the only bootable device, disabling all others. It then gives the standard can't boot message. Once I re-enable my primary hard drive and add it after the USB key in the list, it just goes straight to windows.	00:07
Meego_aggony	https://www.meego.com/downloads/releases/1.2/meego-v1.2-netbooks-google-chrome-browser	00:07
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Meego_aggony	The point is I've booted from USB keys before. It's easy peasy, Ubuntu's live image, no problem! Meego, freaking nightmare.	00:09
vgrade	this image only says 'Supported Hardware	00:10
vgrade	In general, MeeGo v1.2 for Netbook will run on Intel Atom* based netbooks, and has been tested on the following platforms:	00:10
vgrade	Pinetrail Netbook: HP mini, Asus Eee PC* 1005PE	00:10
Meego_aggony	I've gone so far to download 8 images, two of those on physical ethernet. I've also tested them in virtualbox, they work fine no corruption. But as soon as a I do a byte-copy it fails.	00:10
mikhas	Meego_aggony, how does your byte-copy command look like?	00:11
vgrade	it looks like earlier meego images worked ok, http://logbookofanobserver.wordpress.com/2010/07/16/asus-eeepc-1005ha-and-meego-1-0-1/	00:11
Meego_aggony	windows, so that's irrelivent	00:11
Meego_aggony	Oh, ffs. So 1.0 is compatible but 1.2 isn't	00:12
Meego_aggony	Fantastic intel, thank you very much	00:12
Meego_aggony	well there's no point then, I tried 1.0 ages ago, it had no support for my wifi chipset, and what's the point in using a netbook without wifi?	00:12
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shackled_to_Micr	Anyway, thanks. I guess it's my fault. I see a 0.2 upgrade on 1, and I assumed it would support the previous hardware. Guess that's a bit logical for opensource. Thanks for your help.	00:15
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vgrade	shackled_to_Micr, this bug report seems to point to problems with your target hardware, https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=3172	00:16
MeeGoBot	Bug 3172 nor, Low, ---, auke-jan.h.kok, RESO WORKSFORME, MeeGo crashes eeePC 1005HA BIOS	00:16
vgrade	shackled_to_Micr, please update the bug	00:17
lbt	Aard: pin	00:17
lbt	g	00:17
Aard	lbt: yes?	00:18
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lbt	hey ... are you still on nokia email ?	00:18
shackled_to_Micr	thanks MeeGoBot, but there's no point. It's not listing 1005HA as compatible with 1.2 as vgrade pointed out.	00:19
lbt	I've been meaning to catch up Aard :)	00:19
Aard	lbt: I still am, and maybe will work closer with you than you like soon ;)	00:19
lbt	cc'ing you on a mail on distro-tool-list	00:19
lbt	about making chroot dev env	00:19
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lbt	sounds good though .... more Merittati meals then ;)	00:21
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Aard	I'm regulary eating there with islam ;)	00:21
Aard	when are you in helsinki next time?	00:21
lbt	not sure ... hopefully 29th	00:22
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Aard	he. I'll leave on 28th	00:23
lbt	depends if Ramez gets his finger out and approves the kickoff for this 'new team'	00:23
lbt	gah	00:23
lbt	mmm	00:23
lbt	can you stretch a day? assuming you're part of the new team	00:23
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Aard	not really... I'll have a meeting with ramez and jussi on monday, and pick up my girlfriend from the airport tuesday, and go back	00:24
lbt	np	00:24
lbt	Islam isn't in Hel then either	00:24
lbt	we should schedule something for his return	00:25
Aard	nope, will be back end of july	00:25
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lbt	ah well	00:26
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BlueAidan	man building a kernel takes forever on a netbook	01:23
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BlueAidan	I'm gonna have to build a VM for meego on my macbook pro	01:23
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MohammadAG	takes 50 minutes on a 1.7GHz single core centrino	01:24
MohammadAG	10 or less on a quad core i5 @ 2.4GHz	01:24
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MohammadAG	that should give you an estimate :p	01:25
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gabrbedd	BlueAidan: Make sure to do `make -j2` or `make -j3` :-)	01:51
gabrbedd	BlueAidan: Yes, it does take a long time.	01:52
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BlueAidan	gabrbedd: success	01:52
BlueAidan	touchscreen now works	01:52
gabrbedd	BlueAidan: Sweet!	01:53
BlueAidan	:)	01:53
BlueAidan	should I try to remove that quirk from the bootline / xorg config? or do you think those bits are required?	01:54
BlueAidan	I can't get the meego menu to drop down using just the touchscreen tho	01:55
gabrbedd	BlueAidan: Yeah, I would remove it.	01:55
BlueAidan	k	01:55
gabrbedd	BlueAidan: Netbook? You have to very carefully get your finger up to pixel 0 at the top	01:56
gabrbedd	BlueAidan: With practice, you can kind of slide up to it to get it to come down.	01:56
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BlueAidan	gabrbedd: yeah, the touchscreen still works after removing that quirk from the boot line and the customized xorg config file	02:01
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julienf	hey	02:10
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DesertZ	hi	02:22
CosmoHill	.o/	02:22
DesertZ	anibody to help run meego on the beagleboard	02:23
DesertZ	?	02:23
DesertZ	http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/Meego_on_the_Beagle	02:23
DesertZ	im at the OMAP beagleboard.org # prompt	02:23
DesertZ	i paste the first line	02:23
DesertZ	bootcmd=if mmc init; then if run loadbootscript; then run bootscript; else if run loaduimage; then run mmcboot; else run nandboot; fi; fi; else run nandboot; fi	02:23
DesertZ	i get	02:23
DesertZ	syntax error	02:23
DesertZ	i want to run meego IVI	02:24
CosmoHill	most of the european developers will be in bed at the moment	02:25
DesertZ	how long 'til they awake ?	02:27
CosmoHill	they'd be UTC+2	02:27
CosmoHill	assuming they'd be online at 9am, about 8 hours	02:28
SpeedEvil	Many won't be around till 6PM or so local time - which would be another 18 hours or so	02:29
CosmoHill	SpeedEvil: most are online at work	02:30
SpeedEvil	true	02:30
CosmoHill	beats doing work I suppose	02:30
CosmoHill	speaking of work, anyone know how to use ansys software?	02:30
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CosmoHill	night	02:44
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angelox	Hi,could i use bootmenu-n900 instead uboot on my phone to get multi-boot ?	03:51
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angelox	i mean, i don't know if it's old or anything like...	03:53
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npm	this is one of those times i wish i was still using a cross compilation environment instead of compiling directly on ExoPC...	05:10
npm	seems like it's slower than the lenovo s10-3t	05:10
npm	gee sudo init 3 seemed to perk it right up	05:11
npm	recompiling qt-mobility 1.2 from source gets a little old	05:12
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npm	sad exopc has 2G and linux only accesses less than 1G (Re: "Warning only 895MB will be used." in /var/log/messages)	05:17
berndhs	npm: that's a meego thing for some good reason that I forget at the moment	05:18
npm	yes, it's a kernel compile option	05:22
berndhs	the addressing is probably faster within the 1G that way	05:23
npm	alongside the two other needed ones to allow sandboxed browsers to work	05:23
npm	well it's not very fast running the meego-ux and a compile at the same time.	05:24
berndhs	the x86 addressing modes are not what you would design if you didnt have to worry about backward compatibiliry	05:24
berndhs	but yeah when the 1G isn't enough and you start swapping, that's going to hurt	05:25
TSCHAKeee	for those of you who complain that x86 sucks	05:28
TSCHAKeee	..	05:28
npm	well, it finished compiling so i'll stop complaining :-)	05:29
TSCHAKeee	be glad that the chip that x86 was put into production "instead of"	05:29
TSCHAKeee	didn't hapen	05:29
TSCHAKeee	(The Intel IAPX432)	05:29
berndhs	no i'm just saying some things are more constrained than a fresh design would be	05:29
TSCHAKeee	;)	05:29
npm	yesterday, i was doing the same thing on the s10-3t, and noticing how snappy it was doing all the usual stuff	05:29
npm	but that was on netbook ux	05:29
npm	and it has a very fast intel SSD	05:29
berndhs	i remember the iapx432, it had some really interesting stuff	05:30
npm	so i've made that my compile box. except yesteday, the thing i compiled on it wouldn't run on the tablet	05:30
npm	so now i'm back to compiling on tablet to understand what broke	05:30
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berndhs	dont run any ux when compiling big things, just init 3	05:33
berndhs	while you still can, its something else with systemd :P	05:34
npm	yep, tha'ts what i just did.	05:34
npm	i guess there's no point in putting in a 2G of memory in the S10-3t tho...	05:35
berndhs	oh i dont know, if meego devices that are actually sold will have more than 1G, this will go away	05:36
berndhs	will happen eventually, whether its needed or not	05:36
npm	well i shouldn't have to compile mobility, or qt-sdk... but for some reason meego is shipping old versions of mobility when 1.2 final has been released	05:37
npm	so i've decided to install qt sdk 1.1.1 and qt mobility 1.2 on all my platforms (incl meego) so they can be bug-for bug compatible	05:38
berndhs	sounds like a lot of work	05:38
npm	well it's more work trying to figure out why sometyhing you just got working stopped working... hopefully by the time this becomes an "app" it'll all be sorted out	05:40
npm	as shipping your own copy of the latest qt mobility isn't exactly winning.	05:41
berndhs	unless you ship your own hardware, what are you going to ship it for ?	05:45
berndhs	I mean sure, you want to be ready when the commercial devices appear	05:45
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npm	i'm hoping to put an app up in appup	05:46
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npm	and then hoping there will be a market where appup is available	05:47
berndhs	right, then you have to be prepared to use what the commercial guys install	05:47
npm	yep, and by then hopefully meego will be shipping the released qt mobiluty	05:47
berndhs	they probably won't let you update libraries, because of compliance	05:47
npm	well then i'll file a bug	05:48
berndhs	so if they ship with libFoo v 1.1.99, you can't use libFoo 1.2, most likely	05:48
npm	well by the time any of this materializes it'll be what, meego 1.3? 1.4?	05:48
berndhs	but you're right to use a consistent environment, then you know what you're dealing with	05:48
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npm	especially with as large a codebase as qtmobility, qt, and qml underneath you	05:49
berndhs	somebody will ship 1.3 I think	05:49
berndhs	but that's a guess	05:51
berndhs	1.3 is october or something ?	05:51
npm	i hope.. in the meantime, the spiffy new qtcreator 1.2 i just installed seems to be doing the right thing... i'll just let it build me both "qt in path" and also the 4.7.3 from sdk 1.1.1	05:52
npm	the latter gives the missing "qtconfig" in meego	05:53
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berndhs	I like the STL, but the error messages are something for masochists	06:05
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sofar	Stskeeps: heads up on the uxlaunch changes coming... you guys will need to create a /usr/share/xsessions/x-meego-something.desktop etc	07:35
Stskeeps	sofar: or 1.3 we use meego ux too	07:35
Stskeeps	er, for	07:36
Stskeeps	so i would assume those changes come through there	07:36
sofar	you probably need to choose how to define your session	07:36
Stskeeps	ok	07:36
sofar	anyway	07:36
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Stskeeps	thanks for mailing about the change	07:36
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sofar	I advice you to experiment with it and give feedback	07:36
Stskeeps	yep	07:36
sofar	yeah, it's a rather big change	07:36
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sofar	and I killed the compatibility code table we had	07:37
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sofar	good thing is that it's really easy to setup	07:37
* Stskeeps looks for some coffee		07:37
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sofar	and you can do all of it as regular user - toy around with it etc.	07:38
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GonzoTheGreat	Afternoon everyone. I had a look at the meego-ux-panels and I think it is reasonably straight forward to turn it into meego-ux-widgets as an alternative to the panels specifically for the handset where I think panels don't work well.	07:40
Stskeeps	sounds like a nice task to work on	07:41
GonzoTheGreat	I hope I spend some time on it. However kids and wife need attention too.	07:42
Stskeeps	:nod:	07:42
GonzoTheGreat	I would envisage something like maemo home widgets.	07:43
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GonzoTheGreat	But using panels. e.g. implement the front/back Flickables	07:44
Stskeeps	that would be nice, at least	07:44
GonzoTheGreat	Sorry Flipables	07:44
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GonzoTheGreat	tablet ux is dead slow in virtual box. What is the best way to test/do development?	07:44
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sofar	get a netbook or a piece of HW mimicking a tablet	07:45
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GonzoTheGreat	Can't afford another piece of hardware both financially and relationship wise ;)	07:46
GonzoTheGreat	Oh well, virtualbox and N900 it is then.	07:46
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berndhs	shouldn't have relationships with hardware, not healthy	07:49
GonzoTheGreat	wmarone better get his act together on the Nook port! (joke)	07:49
Stskeeps	heh, yeah, that would be a nice meego tablet target indeed	07:50
GonzoTheGreat	Just the right size I reckon. Don't like 10+inches	07:51
iekku	morning	07:52
Stskeeps	morn iekku	07:52
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berndhs	iekku you're late :)	07:54
berndhs	good night	07:54
timoph	:)	07:55
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iekku	:D	07:56
dm8tbr	good moaning	07:57
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TheBootroo	hello !	09:47
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TheBootroo	do you think the 'disruptive device' to be presented tomorow by Nokia at Singapore is going to be the meego/harmattan device ? (aka N9/N950)	09:48
Stskeeps	rumours for #meego-bar, please :)	09:48
TheBootroo	Stskeeps: np	09:48
TheBootroo	didn't know this channel	09:49
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TheBootroo	Stskeeps:	09:49
TheBootroo	Stskeeps: the repos for meego-DE does have a server delay ? because my connection here is bad so i download at very small rate but it work until it stops server-side about 6 hours later, so i can't resume and finish the download....	09:51
TheBootroo	its very annoying i cant test meego tablet ux	09:51
Stskeeps	TheBootroo: #meego-arm for those questions :)	09:51
Stskeeps	and not afaik	09:51
TheBootroo	Stskeeps: too many different channels	09:51
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Stskeeps	so it goes	09:51
TheBootroo	:D	09:52
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Jaffa	Morning, all	10:57
Stskeeps	morn jaffa	10:58
X-Fade	Morning	10:58
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EuPhobos	Hi all..	11:04
EuPhobos	Somebody help me recovery my n900 without reflash ?	11:05
Stskeeps	probably more of a #maemo issue	11:05
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EuPhobos	But only meego have rescue initrd..	11:07
jykae	anyone has exp with gtk touch interaction?	11:09
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jykae	We have pygtk app moved to meego tablet, but the controls are too touch sensitive	11:10
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tomeu	maybe there's a xsetting for that?	11:12
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tomeu	though maybe you want to tune that at a lower level, maybe in the driver	11:13
jykae	tomeu: I would like to keep as high level as possible :)	11:14
jykae	what you mean with xsetting?	11:15
tomeu	jykae: http://standards.freedesktop.org/xsettings-spec/xsettings-spec-0.5.html	11:15
tomeu	cannot find any relevant xsetting here: http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Specifications/XSettingsRegistry	11:16
tomeu	but then, I don't know what you mean by being too sensitive	11:16
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jykae	tomeu: example: we're using mouse clicks, and on tablet it recognizes it only when it's very fast touch	11:18
jykae	would like to get it work well both on desktop and devices with touch	11:20
tomeu	so on one particular tablet, the user needs to be very quick in lifting the finger when clicking, otherwise it's not registered as a click but as a drag?	11:21
jykae	tomeu: yes, testing on exo	11:21
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jykae	tomeu: do you have suggestion how to fix that 'the right way'?	11:23
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tomeu	jykae: is your application handling the raw events, or is it done by gtk+?	11:24
tomeu	afaik, on gtk+ even if you are very slow to release the finger and even if you move the finger a bit, it will be registered as a click if you don't leave the widget's area	11:25
tomeu	so I would fire up xev and see if the events that X delivers are very different from those in a machine without a touchscreen	11:26
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jykae	tomeu: hmm, they might be raw events, need to check the code. It's done with pygtk. It's old app, maybe need to update event handling.	11:33
jykae	tomeu: thanks a lot	11:33
tomeu	it would surprise me, but if you were handling the press and release button events instead of leaving that to gtk+, then you may want to stop doing that	11:34
tomeu	yw, good luck	11:34
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aissen	hello :-)	11:45
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Stskeeps	hi	11:45
aissen	link in /topic about IRC rules(bit.ly) has a / at the end that makes it non-working Stskeeps	11:46
Stskeeps	ah, fun	11:46
Stskeeps	sec	11:46
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o Stskeeps		11:46
*** Stskeeps changes topic to "channel for general discussions about MeeGo \| MeeGo project info: http://meego.com/ \| This channel is logged at http://mg.pov.lt/meego-irclog/ \| IRC guidelines and more info: http://bit.ly/cYT2Hs \| For 'bar' talk (rumours, gossip, etc), please go to #meego-bar"		11:46
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aissen	Stskeeps: works now, thanks :-)	11:47
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jykae	tomeu: how this looks to you http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/629728/	11:52
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tomeu	jykae: looks like the problem might be in the application indeed	11:57
tomeu	nothing weird in xev?	11:58
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jykae	ah, the exact problem is generating long press is difficult in the application.	12:03
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jykae	I confuse my projects..	12:03
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jykae	the place where one presses and holds is strict	12:05
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jykae	tomeu: our implementation of long press sucks. How it's done easily? So that the finger position can slightly vary	12:12
tomeu	jykae: see how it's done in gtk+ and steal it	12:13
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jykae	tomeu: threshold, that's the magic word...	12:18
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lcuk	gmorning \o	12:35
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TheBootroo	Stskeeps: does MeeGo run flawlessly on an Intel Core i5 processor ? with the integrated Intel HD3000 graphics ?	12:55
Stskeeps	i don't own a i5	12:55
Stskeeps	so i don't know	12:55
TheBootroo	(MeeGo for Tablets)	12:55
Stskeeps	also, i work on meego ARM	12:55
TheBootroo	true	12:55
TheBootroo	my bad	12:55
TheBootroo	i doesn't run on Tegra 2 ? so no chance for an Asus EEE Transformer ?	12:56
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lcuk	Stskeeps, your recent advancement of wayland stuff will help arm and x86 too, since discussions are helpful in general!	12:59
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lcuk	I got to see/tinker with some Windows phones last night	13:01
Jaffa	lcuk: Thoughts?	13:01
lcuk	slick	13:01
lcuk	and understandable	13:01
lcuk	reminded me of the liqbase classic squares ;)	13:01
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Recku	hi :)	13:03
lcuk	Jaffa, I am getting first native symbian/qt device this week	13:03
lcuk	which should help with my qt evolution	13:03
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lcuk	how was your fathers day?	13:03
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Jaffa	Good. Yours?	13:03
* thiago recommends not buying a device today		13:03
lcuk	I am wearing my Dad'll fix it tshirt with pride!	13:04
w00t	thiago: :-)	13:04
Jaffa	thiago: I know nothing except rumours and I still advised that to someone yesterday about to order an N900.	13:05
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lcuk	thiago, generic advice (which applies for all of technology world) : if a person has a need to buy something and is pondering:	13:05
lcuk	it is always recommended to purchase based on solving todays problem	13:06
Jaffa	lcuk: There are points in a cycle where it makes sense to wait a week or so, if you can.	13:06
Jaffa	lcuk: The day's before MacWorld/WWDC/whatever, for example.	13:06
Jaffa	http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/ is quite a cool example of that (even though I'm not a Mac man)	13:07
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lcuk	indeed, but those are known product cycles	13:07
lcuk	as noted, we do not do rumours	13:07
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lcuk	hi Recku by the way \o	13:08
lcuk	what is your meego involvement	13:08
lcuk	Jaffa, I went to the Guardian Hacktivate event and met up with a load of great folks	13:09
lcuk	finally met alterego	13:09
alterego	uuuuuurrrrggggghhh	13:09
alterego	I hate drinking with Fin	13:09
Stskeeps	alterego: ns	13:09
Stskeeps	?	13:09
Jaffa	Stskeeps: No, he hates stopping drinking ;-)	13:09
lcuk	and after 2 years met up with one of my W+K contacts	13:09
alterego	Yes, fins :)	13:10
lcuk	alterego, !!	13:10
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alterego	Do you know what time I got home last night?	13:10
alterego	f'ing 2am	13:10
lcuk	a little after me!	13:10
alterego	I got the midnight train :P	13:10
lcuk	heh	13:10
lcuk	only a couple of extra hours then	13:11
alterego	You'll have to give me Alexs' email aswell btw :)	13:11
lcuk	okiedokey	13:12
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lcuk	"Your letter is only the start of it"	13:12
alterego	She was really nice, looked familiar too.	13:12
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alterego	lcuk: ?	13:12
lcuk	"One letter and now your a part of it"	13:12
lcuk	sorry, got jimll fix it music	13:12
lcuk	since I can see a big "Dad'll fix it" logo in my laptop	13:13
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alterego	Hahahah	13:16
alterego	Riku gave me a little bottle of jagermeister he had on him. :D	13:16
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alterego	I was really pissed by the time I got the train, I passed out and missed my stop.	13:17
alterego	Had to walk 4 miles home.	13:17
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lcuk	haha	13:17
lcuk	alterego, the battery on my n900 lasted much longer than I recall	13:18
alterego	After everyone left except 4 of us, and the Guardian guy was like, we still have 60 quid on the tab, cocktails? :)	13:18
lcuk	I watched the end of deuce bigalow, an episode of warehouse 13 and most of herbie goes bananas before pulling into manchester station	13:18
alterego	So we had mahjitos	13:19
lcuk	hah	13:19
alterego	Then got the taste for them, and had another 3	13:19
alterego	Needless to say, I regret it now :D	13:19
lcuk	why? :)	13:19
alterego	I feel like crap, I should have had more pizza.	13:20
lcuk	don't regret having a good time	13:20
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lcuk	just plan it better to remove the hangover phase ;)	13:20
alterego	Yeah, and my girlfriend didn't even seem to care when I got in well late.	13:20
alterego	And pissed.	13:21
lcuk	now, I am going to recheck and file bugs relating to contacts import this morning	13:21
lcuk	what are you upto?	13:21
alterego	I'm going to get over this hangover, make something for breakfast and then probably fix the most important bugs whilst contemplating tomorrow :)	13:22
alterego	And contemplating what I'm gonna do with an N8	13:22
lcuk	what is tomorrow? (apart from an excellent song by James)	13:23
Jaffa	Nice formfactor	13:23
Stskeeps	alterego: N8Fly	13:23
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alterego	Heh	13:24
alterego	Stskeeps: it's be a shame to waste that camera :P	13:24
alterego	I'll probably just use it as a digital camera.	13:24
alterego	Talking about wp7 lastnight and yesterday lcuk I can't help but think Microsoft got the raw deal ..	13:26
lcuk	what makes you say that?	13:27
alterego	Just sounded like Nokia can literally do what the like to WP7, to the point of it not being WP7	13:28
lcuk	I think the only thing lacking from wp7 is qt support.	13:28
Jaffa	alterego: Including run it on a Linux kernel, with Wayland and Qt? ;-)	13:28
lcuk	add that to the mix somehow officially and a great many of the devs will be happy	13:28
alterego	Jaffa: one of the guys their had wrote a QML mock up of the WP7 interface :D	13:28
alterego	Had it running on an E7	13:29
alterego	He was like "First E7 running WP7"	13:29
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alterego	And it looked really good, then after a couple of seconds I realised what he had done :D	13:29
alterego	lcuk: we can't talk about that ;)	13:29
lcuk	?	13:30
SpeedEvil	lcuk: yeah - with supported codecs and screen not on maximum brightness with moderate volume - the battery life is really good.	13:30
lcuk	SpeedEvil, no you misunderstand	13:30
lcuk	I do those things normally	13:30
lcuk	oh, train related bonus	13:30
alterego	lcuk: qt on wp7	13:30
lcuk	Virgin train seat trays	13:31
lcuk	fold up, put n900 with keyboard out on the top	13:31
lcuk	and you have seat back IVI	13:31
kavacha	hi, when trying to run "osc build" against meego OBS i get the following:	13:31
SpeedEvil	:)	13:31
lcuk	worked a treat :D	13:31
kavacha	BuildService API error: can't verify packages due to lack of GPG keys	13:31
Jaffa	lcuk: Careful - I've tried that before and sometimes it fails catastrophically :-)	13:31
kavacha	anyone know how I can add the keys	13:31
kavacha	Ubuntu host	13:31
lcuk	Jaffa, worked perfectly	13:31
alterego	lcuk: works on some coaches too ;)	13:31
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alterego	kavacha: --no-verify	13:32
* lcuk smiled all yesterday		13:32
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lcuk	alwhat can't you talk about?	13:32
lcuk	alterego, what ^	13:32
alterego	qyt on wp7	13:32
Jaffa	lcuk: I go on a couple of Pendolinos every day - it varies	13:32
alterego	Qt on WP7	13:32
lcuk	roger Jaffa	13:32
lcuk	alterego, I only read the official announcements	13:32
alterego	I thought you heard what I heard, my mistake :P	13:32
Jaffa	alterego: Hmm, it would make sense for the announcement tomorrow what with "new ecosystem" and talk of "developers"	13:33
kavacha	alterego: thanks !!	13:33
alterego	Jaffa: good point	13:33
alterego	Jaffa: maybe it will ;)	13:34
Jaffa	As lcuk said, I think Qt on WP7 would be very nice to assuage developers' fears about Qt adoption in the mobile/handset market.	13:34
* alterego looking forward to Harmattan :)		13:34
alterego	And putting MeeGo on the N9	13:34
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iekku	N9?	13:34
Jaffa	Definitely. Will prove MeeGo can be used for a commercial device (as far as everyone's concerned, it doesn't matter it's not pure meego.com MeeGo Core)	13:34
Jaffa	iekku: He means M9. A motorway in Scotland. All the roadsigns will run MeeGo with free apps for IVI	13:35
alterego	Did you know Maa Mo in finnish means Mother Earth?	13:35
iekku	Jaffa, :D	13:35
alterego	But it's sort of said Maemo	13:35
lcuk	did you know, when I go to friends houses, if they ask me to take my shoes off I will do.	13:35
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lcuk	respecting their rules is something we should all do naturally.	13:36
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iekku	alterego, it's maa (earht) emo (mom)	13:39
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alterego	iekku: ah right :)	13:39
alterego	Thanks :)	13:39
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alterego	I thought that was really cool/interesting	13:40
iekku	haven't ever noticed that	13:40
alterego	emo just makes it even more interesting/cool :D	13:41
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iekku	emo kid?	13:42
leinir	Jaffa: it's this funny thing, the only thing really stopping Qt on WP7 is politics... i was talking with people at the summit, and saying that two things need to happen:	13:42
leinir	1) Someone needs to break the WP7 UI flow horribly using the WPF stuff that's the only current blessed thing... that'll break the current argument about consistency	13:43
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leinir	2) Someone needs to build a set of QML components for the Metro UI	13:43
leinir	Those two things happen, and well... :)	13:43
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lcuk	leinir, sigh, (1) it is feasible to bring any computer to its knees. (2) copying the work of others is not so good	13:44
lcuk	a better (2) would be making qt/qml stand out on its own features instead of cloning	13:44
Jaffa	lcuk: I think you misunderstand #2	13:44
Jaffa	lcuk: Qt won't be allowed on WP7 if you can't simply write Metro-style QML UIs.	13:44
leinir	lcuk: what Jaffa said ;)	13:45
lcuk	hence copying:	13:45
leinir	Qt not being accepted on WP7 is not a technical decision at all	13:45
lcuk	will Microsoft be happy when you are using Metro UI on iphone or android or maemo/meego?	13:45
leinir	lcuk: They might very well be a set of components in the style of the MeeGo Tablet UX components - not really usable outside of MeeGo, for a variety of reasons	13:46
Jaffa	lcuk: Make the implementation use underlying WPF components, then it'll only work on WP7	13:46
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leinir	so yeah, again, what Jaffa said ;D	13:46
Jaffa	leinir: :-)	13:47
lcuk	Jaffa, then the argument says: why are you using second rate developer components?	13:47
lcuk	just use the official sdk	13:47
Jaffa	lcuk: To have a cross-platform app. MS want Spotiy, Rovio, Facebook, ... to have a compelling platform. App developers no longer target single systems if there's a more cross-ecosystem alternative.	13:48
lcuk	Jaffa, really?	13:48
lcuk	android apps cross platform?	13:49
lcuk	iphone?	13:49
lcuk	hell, maemo apps aren't generally cross platform	13:49
lcuk	or we would have more of them here in meego	13:49
Jaffa	lcuk: That's my point. Lots of publishers/devs are targetting multiple platforms. They want to reduce costs. Qt can help.	13:49
lcuk	Jaffa, the best help is to build up a list of qt apps which are living the cross platform dream	13:50
Jaffa	I can target Symbian for much lower cost and investment, so I have started doing so. I've no desire to target WP7 directly, but if it ran Qt, it'd be a more viable option. Same with Qt on Android & iOS	13:50
lcuk	from the good qt apps we know	13:50
lcuk	which run on all our favourite platforms	13:50
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lcuk	qt on android/ios	13:51
lcuk	if I sell a qt app on symbian	13:51
lcuk	qt dev support gets 30% of sales	13:51
Jaffa	lcuk: "best help"? I'm 100% certain that #meego compiling a list of cross-platform Qt apps will not help change the politics that leinir describes.	13:51
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lcuk	if I sell the same app on android, who from qt is paid to work on that support	13:51
lcuk	it is an unofficial port	13:51
lcuk	Jaffa, I am just wanting to discuss the complexity of cross platofmrness	13:52
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alterego	I played with symbian anna last night too.	13:53
lcuk	anything data related usually has bigger issues than simple apps and the teams working on them do so usually for a specific target	13:53
alterego	v.sleek	13:53
sivang	Jaffa: what policies did lenier describe? :)	13:53
lcuk	alterego, indeed	13:53
lcuk	anna is sexy.	13:53
sivang	alterego: you have it already?	13:53
Jaffa	sivang: "politics", not "policies"	13:53
alterego	sivang: no, I just got to use/play/see it yesterday.	13:54
lcuk	Jaffa, if SQt had unified installation mechanism and SDK I would be in more agreement	13:54
alterego	On a C6 unfortunately :D	13:54
lcuk	s/SQt/Qt/	13:54
alterego	Which is a teeeny phone	13:54
infobot	lcuk meant: Jaffa, if Qt had unified installation mechanism and SDK I would be in more agreement	13:54
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leinir	sivang: they're simple enough - no native code on WP7, except if you're one of MS' "special" friends, who have access to Iris	13:55
Jaffa	lcuk: Oh, I agree it's a long way from ideal. There are annoying edge cases and not yet enough support in the docs & SDK. But it's promising, and a lot easier than it was	13:55
lcuk	incidentally, Visual Basic had the same problems, having to go to the Windows API underneath to get over a limitation	13:55
lcuk	once you start to put OS dependent things into your app, you throw away cross platformness	13:56
sivang	leinir: ah, speaking of WP7	13:56
sivang	okay	13:56
sivang	fair	13:56
* alterego is going to be gutted if the N8 is a pink one.		13:58
lcuk	I have stuff to do for now, leinir best way to gain access would be to give compelling apps	13:58
* alterego wonders off to do some washing up and make food.		13:58
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sivang	see you all soon	14:00
* sivang -> out		14:00
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lcuk	leinir, speaking of compelling I have qt prototype of the liqcalendar :)	14:00
leinir	Ooh... :)	14:00
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w00t	lcuk: oh?	14:15
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lcuk	yes w00t :)	14:20
w00t	lcuk: where's it at :)	14:21
lcuk	it is at a screenshotconly at present	14:22
lcuk	I also have a Visual basic.net version too, but that has existed all along ;)	14:22
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MeeGoExperts	Reminder: Only a few days left for the MeeGo Birmingham UK MeetUp - Sign up and show your MeeGo Support :-) http://mge.bz/bX #Linux	14:23
MeeGoExperts	p.s. Hi Everyone :-)	14:23
w00t	lcuk: show :)	14:24
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lcuk	w00t, restyled to use Nokia Pure and it looks pretty damned attractive	14:25
lcuk	http://liqbase.net/20110410_001.jpg	14:25
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lcuk	but I cannot use it on meego directly using that font	14:25
lcuk	so petition Nokia to allow Pure on Meego	14:25
* lcuk thinks droid font makes a poor substitute		14:26
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w00t	so, what's the fundamental idea? using Qt to write your own graphics/other functionality on top (like calendar) as applications?	14:26
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hena	it's a good thing i don't have to waste my time with a simulator anymore... ;p	14:27
* Jaffa really likes Pure. Having gone back to Nokia Sans on a C7, and a recovery N900 (before switching the font), it looks so much better		14:27
w00t	I still prefer droid fonts personally	14:27
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SpeedEvil	I t	14:28
SpeedEvil	Courier.	14:28
lcuk	w00t, I started with a qwidget that can load/render sketches and played with a few ideas.	14:29
lcuk	performance is not where I need it	14:30
lcuk	and where I have pushed many times towards getting help	14:30
lcuk	qpainter line drawing etc	14:30
lcuk	w00t, I have 8000 sketches now and a great new game	14:30
lcuk	tagging the graffiti wall is like playing bingo	14:31
lcuk	so addictive!	14:31
lcuk	tick tick tick tick "cool"	14:31
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lcuk	http://liqbase.net/liq.20110528_124839.liqrecentsketches_tagging.scr.png ;)	14:32
TheBootroo	lcuk: you can use Ubuntu font (ubuntu-ttf) which is free and looks pretty good, at small or big size	14:36
DocScrutinizer	brightness? usually has no more than 8 to 12 steps anyway, that you could distinguish	14:37
lcuk	TheBootroo, for everyday use I like my own handwriting thanks, but Nokia Pure looks coolest and arty	14:37
lcuk	and since the calendar goes on the wall agree with many experts ;)	14:37
lcuk	DocScrutinizer, psh :P	14:37
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lcuk	DocScrutinizer, the point about the brightness was that, Nokia said 4 or 5 steps were enough, users (espeically rm_you) said that 127 steps were enough, I found middle ground	14:38
lcuk	which allowed choice	14:39
TheBootroo	lcuk: Nokia Pure > Ubuntu TTF ? i don't agree : nokia pure is too thick, Ubuntu has a Light variant and a Monospaced one	14:39
lcuk	gradient between firm specific steps or fine options :)	14:39
lcuk	TheBootroo, look at the use on the calendar photo I showed	14:39
lcuk	it is for background	14:39
lcuk	perfect for a bold stylistic font like Pure	14:39
lcuk	the actual content is hand drawn and pure white	14:40
lcuk	so stands out anyway	14:40
lcuk	:)	14:40
TheBootroo	bad handrwriting though	14:40
TheBootroo	O.o	14:40
TheBootroo	you can read ?	14:40
TheBootroo	is this fault of low resolution of nokia symbian devices (nHD) ?	14:41
TheBootroo	oh, my bad, its the sdk simulator	14:41
lcuk	http://liqbase.net/liq.20110208_002.liqbook.on.meego.ideapad.jpg	14:41
lcuk	I have better handwriting for proper reading :)	14:41
lcuk	the calendar is for me and my family, we all know what it says ;)	14:42
TheBootroo	hum	14:42
TheBootroo	i hope...	14:42
TheBootroo	XD	14:42
lcuk	TheBootroo, doctors can read their own writing you know.	14:42
lcuk	nobody else can	14:42
DocScrutinizer	lcuk: and I say they thoroughly messed up with that incredible awkward slider" with 5 steps, that has a huge offset to touchpoint, and doesn't even allow to scroll up/down the menu. Probably on a menu with just such sliders on it and exceeding screen height you're screwed	14:42
TheBootroo	true	14:42
lcuk	:) and that is what makes the calendar unique to you	14:42
TheBootroo	lcuk: are you a doctor then ?	14:43
lcuk	code doctor perhaps	14:43
TheBootroo	(i'm kidding you, the second photo, of the idea pad is a cute font)	14:43
lcuk	and I am wearing a "Dad'll fix it" tshirt now	14:43
lcuk	TheBootroo, that is my best handtyping.	14:43
alterego	I hope we can get OpenCL running on Harmattan ..	14:43
TheBootroo	you should turn it into a handwritten font	14:44
alterego	I doubt it though	14:44
lcuk	TheBootroo, ...	14:44
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lcuk	that is the idea, but one font is not enough	14:44
TheBootroo	alterego: since harmattan is plain linux we can acheive all we want , just like the N900	14:44
DocScrutinizer	lcuk: wait, maybe that's simple brightness applet?	14:44
lcuk	what I want is for each person to have their own handwriting :)	14:44
lcuk	huh DocScrutinizer ?	14:45
alterego	TheBootroo: not without the appropriate drivers.	14:45
TheBootroo	lcuk: i'm not talking about your project but about making a good looking handwritting-like font for some uses	14:45
lcuk	the brightness applet is just one example of ux issues and wasn't the point of what I showed ;)	14:45
alterego	We don't have it on the N900 but it's capable.	14:45
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DocScrutinizer	lcuk: ot, but maemo system menu -> brightness "slider" with 5 bars	14:46
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TheBootroo	is there a way to get a 'home' icon on the left of title bars in Tablet UX Apps just like in handset ones ? because that easier than a key stroke and i want my N900 fully usable with ux, and no physical button	14:47
DocScrutinizer	then I'd prefer the 128 steps according to rm_you :-)	14:47
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lcuk	TheBootroo, it is being discussed somewhere I think	14:48
lcuk	and asking for some kind of onscreen element for it would be useful	14:48
TheBootroo	where then ?	14:48
lcuk	i just know of a bug relating to needing a way	14:48
lcuk	hold on	14:48
TheBootroo	more : it seems that the place is hold : there is already a space but empty and unsensitive	14:49
lcuk	bug 19019	14:49
MeeGoBot	Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19019 nor, Medium, ---, nicholas.e.richards, REOP, Add ability to leave a running application without pressing a hard key	14:49
TheBootroo	ok	14:49
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TheBootroo	kthx	14:49
lcuk	\o	14:49
EuPhobos	hello people.. help me with start meego on n900..	14:49
EuPhobos	I'm write the MicroSD with raw image, and start the phone with flasher command "-l -k <imagename-vmlinuz>"	14:49
EuPhobos	Flasher says that image sending..	14:49
EuPhobos	But nothink happen, just white screen NOKIA and usb logo ...	14:49
TheBootroo	EuPhobos: damn dude you are typing to damn fast	14:50
DocScrutinizer	6789KB of 0KB sent in 0s, 6789KB/s ?	14:50
lcuk	./flasher-3.5 -l -b -k mg-handset-armv7nhl-n900-de-acceptance-1.2.0.90.3.20110606.2.DE.2011-06-07.1-vmlinuz-2.6.37-35.1.DE-adaptation-n900	14:50
MohammadAG	use -b	14:51
lcuk	-b	14:51
lcuk	bootup	14:51
lcuk	after?	14:51
MohammadAG	what lcuk said	14:51
EuPhobos	Ouch..	14:51
EuPhobos	thank will try now..	14:51
lcuk	EuPhobos, type faster	14:51
lcuk	next time	14:51
MohammadAG	lcuk, don't use copy and paste to make it look like you type fast :p	14:52
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DocScrutinizer	I just wonder which client allows multi-line copy without the formatting of IRC at line start	14:54
DocScrutinizer	hmm, maybe irssi	14:55
DocScrutinizer	or netcat ;-P	14:55
EuPhobos	There is say's "waiting root device /dev/mmcblk0p1...", but i'm write raw image on microSD should be mmcblk1p1? This ok?	14:55
EuPhobos	Or i can pass thru flasher what device is booting up ?	14:56
DocScrutinizer	yes, you can afaik	14:56
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DocScrutinizer	but there's a catch with mmcbl0 / 1 swap during boot	14:56
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EuPhobos	how i can swap blk0/1 thru flasher?	14:57
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DocScrutinizer	kernel or init is swapping it occasionally	14:58
DocScrutinizer	so mmcblk0 at kernel boot time might not be what you think it is	14:58
TheBootroo	lcuk: i think i'm going to code myself this UX for MeeGo (in plain Qt) : http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=3081	14:58
TheBootroo	because the idea of putting the toolbar on the right (or left) in landscape mode is good but i don't see any feedback from UX teams...	14:59
EuPhobos	ok probably image incorrectly writes...	15:00
TheBootroo	would solve the problem of overlapping icons over quickbar in landscape mode, and would avoid having to recalculating icon pages on orientation changes	15:00
MohammadAG	mmcblk0 is exactly that if you don't have an SD card in	15:00
MohammadAG	otherwise, the eMMC is mmcblk1	15:00
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MohammadAG	I would suggest MeeGo adds an initrd image so UUID booting is possible	15:01
lcuk	TheBootroo, :D	15:01
EuPhobos	ok thanks..	15:02
TheBootroo	lcuk: why are you laughing ?	15:02
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lcuk	TheBootroo, is ":D" implying laughing now? I thought it was great big smile!	15:03
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TheBootroo	lcuk: ok so why this smile means ? happiness ? funny things ?	15:04
DocScrutinizer	EuPhobos: I meant this one: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2747	15:04
povbot	Bug 2747: inconsistent mmc device naming at boot time when one card is missing	15:04
MeeGoBot	Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2747 nor, Undecided, ---, tf, NEW, mutter was killed by SIGABRT	15:04
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lcuk	TheBootroo, happy, the layout is good and along similar ways that I would want to do it	15:04
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TheBootroo	lcuk: oh so you could help me ?	15:04
lcuk	no	15:05
lcuk	I have other stuff to do, you said you are doing it so I will expect status reports on your progress though! ;)	15:05
TheBootroo	lcuk: don't worry i'm qt dev and i will not ask you to code all my wants in my placebut sometimes help is welcome (i have many other projects)	15:05
TheBootroo	lcuk: sure i'll make it as soon i will have a little time, and it will be compatible with maemo 5 too...	15:06
lcuk	:D	15:07
TheBootroo	it pleases you too as i can see....	15:07
* lcuk should stop doing smiley faces so often		15:07
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: I think it could get fixed by kernel module parameters	15:07
TheBootroo	lcuk: maybe	15:08
lcuk	TheBootroo, I have subscribed to the thread	15:08
TheBootroo	lcuk: cool	15:08
TheBootroo	lcuk: you voted too ?	15:08
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TheBootroo	"No. Default one is better." :3	15:09
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, using dev node names isn't better than a UUID	15:09
MohammadAG	a UUID is always constant, a node's name isn't	15:09
DocScrutinizer	yup	15:09
DocScrutinizer	kernel modules may take raw hardware addr though	15:09
EuPhobos	i try 1.2 megoo.. it's not booting say's "Waiting for root device /dev/mmcblk0p1"	15:10
DocScrutinizer	seen this for soundcards	15:10
EuPhobos	I'm have no luck in recover n900..	15:10
MohammadAG	what's mmcblk0p1	15:11
kavacha	I am having a problem when running "osc build", It bails over at the make install part with the following error ( /bin/mkdir: cannot create directory `/usr/lib/lxc': Permission denied	15:11
DocScrutinizer	uSD meego rootfs I assume	15:11
MohammadAG	eMMC?	15:11
EuPhobos	No	15:11
kavacha	any ideas	15:11
EuPhobos	I write on MicroSDHC	15:11
EuPhobos	but don't known mmcblk0p1 for him is eMMC or MicroSD	15:11
DocScrutinizer	as mentioned above by moh and me, it shall be uSD	15:12
MohammadAG	pop the battery, let it get past uboot to maemo, then pop it out again	15:12
DocScrutinizer	maybe it's different with meego kernel? dunno	15:12
DocScrutinizer	wut?	15:13
EuPhobos	my maemo is broke) i'l try boot meego to access NAND memory and fix FSTAB what i'm messed up	15:13
MohammadAG	sometimes my device doesn't detect eMMC/uSD properly unless I boot to maemo	15:13
MohammadAG	at least maemo's preinit	15:13
DocScrutinizer	errr	15:13
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khertan	whaou ... the palm pre3 seems amazing	15:15
khertan	oups wrong windows	15:15
DocScrutinizer	EuPhobos: I'm the least qualified person to help out here, but I'd guess your uSD flashing didn't work correctly	15:15
EuPhobos	DocScrutinizer: i simple use dd	15:16
DocScrutinizer	plus sync I hope	15:16
EuPhobos	dd bs=4096 if=image of=device	15:16
EuPhobos	yes, but sync works only for FS	15:16
EuPhobos	with mounted fs	15:16
DocScrutinizer	errm, I use sync; eject. Usually does the trick	15:17
DocScrutinizer	can take minutes to write out bufers	15:18
TheBootroo	EuPhobos: "sudo umount <device>" then "sudo dd bs=4096 if=<image> of=<device>"	15:18
DocScrutinizer	is meego img a raw device img incl MBR/part-tbl?	15:18
TheBootroo	its very important to umount before	15:18
TheBootroo	it corrupts the image otherway	15:18
DocScrutinizer	yes	15:19
TheBootroo	DocScrutinizer: yes	15:19
MohammadAG	what MBR	15:19
DocScrutinizer	that magical block 0 that holds the partition table	15:19
TheBootroo	DocScrutinizer: in thruth, the image uses i detectabme kernel for u13-boot	15:19
EuPhobos	ofcource i even not mount the device.. it's no need to write with dd	15:19
MohammadAG	uboot handles booting, not the SD image	15:19
MohammadAG	the SD image is 3 partitions, rootfs swap and kernel	15:19
EuPhobos	so device not been mounted	15:19
MohammadAG	I thought the MBR != partition table	15:20
alterego	the partition is in the MBR	15:20
alterego	As well as the boot code	15:20
TheBootroo	MohammadAG: yes	15:20
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TheBootroo	;-)	15:21
TheBootroo	alterego: you typed faster than me	15:21
DocScrutinizer	1st half, 2nd half	15:21
alterego	iirc the partition table is the second from last block in the MBR	15:21
alterego	But there's only enough entries for 4 partition entries, so you have another partition table when you create "extended" partitions	15:21
TheBootroo	meego doesn't use boot code in mbr, since u-boot handles itself the finding of bootable kernel, unlike grub, which need a small code in MBR launching bigger code on the partition	15:22
alterego	And another if you exceed 6, etc, etc ..	15:22
alterego	TheBootroo: grub does	15:22
alterego	Oh, N900 MeeGo	15:22
DocScrutinizer	and that's relevant to "waiting for mmcblk0p1..." how?	15:22
alterego	Sure, you're right, the MBR isn't used outside of x86 tbh	15:22
TheBootroo	alterego: wut ?	15:22
TheBootroo	alterego: hum yes	15:23
alterego	It's not	15:23
alterego	DocScrutinizer: :)	15:23
DocScrutinizer	EuPhobos: use eject or "safely remove"	15:24
EuPhobos	ok.. i'l rewrite SD..	15:24
DocScrutinizer	watch cpu system load	15:24
DocScrutinizer	aah, and use bs=256k	15:24
EuPhobos	ok	15:25
TheBootroo	DocScrutinizer: or just wait the command line to get back to usable with a invite	15:25
TheBootroo	DocScrutinizer: why 256k ?	15:25
DocScrutinizer	actually doesn't help	15:25
DocScrutinizer	as that's the max erase page in flash	15:25
TheBootroo	dman	15:25
TheBootroo	damn	15:25
alterego	I use bs=4096	15:26
DocScrutinizer	you don't want to frequently erase/rewrite	15:26
TheBootroo	me too	15:26
DocScrutinizer	usually the rites will get buffered and concatenated anyway	15:26
DocScrutinizer	but bs=256k doesn't hurt	15:27
TheBootroo	DocScrutinizer: so its for optimizing the mmc memory cells I/O cycles ? (so even speed )	15:27
DocScrutinizer	yes	15:27
TheBootroo	DocScrutinizer: i'm taking notes	15:27
DocScrutinizer	also wear	15:27
TheBootroo	kthx	15:27
MohammadAG	yay PC kernel panic at boot	15:27
DocScrutinizer	you better write a block size of erase page as one chunk to flash	15:27
EuPhobos	ok, but my system don't have any DE, and any automount.. so i dont need to eject or "safely remove" couse it's not mounted... ....i guess	15:28
DocScrutinizer	EuPhobos: that's plain wrong	15:28
TheBootroo	DocScrutinizer: does flashing mmc take less time this way ?	15:28
DocScrutinizer	TheBootroo: might	15:28
DocScrutinizer	might even significantly	15:28
TheBootroo	DocScrutinizer: would be cool	15:28
DocScrutinizer	like factor 30	15:28
TheBootroo	~6 minutes to flash 3,2Gb is long	15:29
infobot	TheBootroo: okay	15:29
DocScrutinizer	actually 256k/4096	15:29
EuPhobos	1876951041 bytes (1,9 GB) copied, 176,53 s, 10,6 MB/s	15:29
DocScrutinizer	sound like max speed for a class 10 ;-)	15:29
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TheBootroo	whoaa class 10 card EuPhobos ?	15:29
EuPhobos	yep	15:29
TheBootroo	cool	15:30
TheBootroo	i have 6,2 mb/s generally	15:30
TheBootroo	so i think i'm class 6	15:30
EuPhobos	But if i'ts worked for me - then bee a cool))	15:30
TheBootroo	so i can't get more	15:30
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DocScrutinizer	also means there's no optimization via bs= then	15:30
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TheBootroo	i have to buy class 12	15:30
TheBootroo	DocScrutinizer: i don't know because i didn't retry	15:31
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DocScrutinizer	you max out class 6. You'll be down to sth like 80kB/s when that rad/modify/erase/write bottleneck hits	15:32
TheBootroo	DocScrutinizer: i know one thing though, when i write a MMC over usb adaptor i get 80% processor as 'I/O latency' so i think i could reducre this latency to get faster	15:32
DocScrutinizer	EuPhobos: you must wait until buffer written to card. can take minutes. using "safely remove" or eject is a safe proven way to wait	15:33
SpeedEvil	TheBootroo: you can't	15:33
TheBootroo	SpeedEvil: why ,	15:33
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SpeedEvil	TheBootroo: the hardware is limited at 25MHz rate, and 4 bits per transaction - this is 12.5Mbytes/second maximum	15:33
DocScrutinizer	EuPhobos: also consider you might have automounter	15:33
SpeedEvil	I've seen IIRC 11.8 with DD	15:34
SpeedEvil	dd	15:34
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SpeedEvil	but you're not getting significantly more than 10, whatever the case.	15:34
TheBootroo	SpeedEvil: ok so i'll buy class 10	15:34
EuPhobos	OMG! OMG! it's works))	15:34
EuPhobos	Thanks a lot!	15:34
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DocScrutinizer	see :-)	15:34
TheBootroo	EuPhobos: happy ?	15:34
EuPhobos	Not really)) Now i need to access to NAND memory to recover maemo )	15:35
EuPhobos	After work.. in home i try load ubifs.ko )	15:35
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* DocScrutinizer thinks sync works on raw devices as well as on mounted filesystems		15:36
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DocScrutinizer	just for the record	15:36
EuPhobos	eject /dev/sdb - for me works	15:37
DocScrutinizer	yes	15:37
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DocScrutinizer	you don't need to load ubi.ko, you just mount the ubifs	15:37
DocScrutinizer	afaik	15:37
DocScrutinizer	you'll need the mounttab entry: ubi0:rootfs on / type ubifs (rw,bulk_read,no_chk_data_crc)	15:38
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EuPhobos	ok thanks it's will save my time )	15:39
EuPhobos	But meego seems to very-very laggy...	15:39
DocScrutinizer	ubi0 is NAND, rootfs is the partition name	15:40
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slaine	SpeedEvil: I've seen DD get up to 16.5 under maemo though, to a class 6 SDHC card	15:44
slaine	11.7 under the MeeGo SF DE image	15:44
SpeedEvil	slaine: how measured?	15:45
TheBootroo	slaine: maybe the 'class' is just the max rate under WIn7 using ntfs, but under linux with raw data or ext4 or btrfs we can explode the limit	15:45
SpeedEvil	slaine: with a reasonable data amount?	15:45
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SpeedEvil	YOu can never get raw data with a SD card	15:45
SpeedEvil	they don't let you at it	15:45
slaine	SpeedEvil: Well, 100M total, someone mentioned that those blocks would be cached and a better test would be to dd > RAM	15:46
TheBootroo	i mean : with my USB key, i get at max 8-10 mbps under win7 transfering a 600 mb movie, and the same under ubuntu i get up to 20mbps	15:46
TheBootroo	slaine: or dd > /dev/null	15:47
slaine	it was dd'ing to /dev/null	15:47
TheBootroo	slaine: ok	15:47
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DocScrutinizer	EuPhobos: next time you use backupmenu to recover from messing up initscripts	15:53
EuPhobos	Yes, next time i'l take backup from rootfs =)	15:54
DocScrutinizer	backupmenu is the name of the magic app	15:56
DocScrutinizer	backup and restore rootfs prior to any initscript (modulo preinit) even gets a chance to mess your day	15:57
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DocScrutinizer	basically a plugin to bootmenu	15:57
DocScrutinizer	so runs really early in bootup	15:57
* DocScrutinizer wonders who's going to step up and install a micro rescue system in that unused initrd partition of N900		15:59
DocScrutinizer	and ship that as a pkg	15:59
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* lcuk leaves 80s tv theme tunes in the background whilst adding data into n900ce		16:03
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DocScrutinizer	err, one question: meego gets started with which kernel pointer? kernel=mmcblk0p1/boot/vmlinuz.bin ?	16:06
DocScrutinizer	owtte	16:06
DocScrutinizer	on N900	16:06
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ceyusa	I had just created an base image with mic-image-creator (v0.24.12-1) (format=raw,fstype=ext3) , but I want to map the result to loop with kpartx and got this error	18:56
ceyusa	read error, sector 0	18:56
ceyusa	read error, sector 1	18:56
ceyusa	read error, sector 29	18:56
ceyusa	any ideas?	18:56
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mikhas	how does meego-qml-launcher want its patches?	20:29
Stskeeps	gitorious, maybe	20:29
Stskeeps	?	20:29
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mikhas	"No merge requests yet"	20:30
mikhas	somehow I think that's a no ;-)	20:30
Stskeeps	well, there's always the standard meego contribution way	20:30
mikhas	alright, meego-dev spam it is, then	20:30
julienf	posted a new blog post: http://julien.fourgeaud.com/2011/06/what-impact-would-the-n9-have-on-the-mobile-industry/	20:31
julienf	would love your feedback	20:31
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mikhas	ah, andyross arrived in the nick of time - I have a patch for meego-qml-launcher, how do you want it?	20:32
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andyross	Everything is handled in gitorious now (though not really by me: this is Rusty's baby), so just a merge request and/or bug with patch attached would be fine.	20:33
mikhas	I go with bug then, it's a small patch anyway	20:34
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GAN900	julienf, very little? g	20:34
mikhas	thanks	20:34
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julienf	GAN900: yeah... in a way that's my feeling. I just hope it will not have a negative impact on the MeeGo ecosystem	20:35
alterego	I think it should be marked as being "MeeGo Compatible" ..	20:36
GAN900	julienf, very little could at this point.	20:36
alterego	Anyway, meego needs it.	20:36
julienf	GAN900: do you think we've hit rock bottom already?	20:36
alterego	Heh	20:36
GAN900	julienf, Intel should've done everything they could to get this announcement at the Summit.	20:36
GAN900	julienf, well, if it goes much lower I think it'll be sunk.	20:37
* alterego needs to head to the shop to get dinner.		20:37
alterego	bbiab	20:37
Stskeeps	are we talking about meego or nokia stock now?	20:37
Stskeeps	:P	20:37
mikhas	julienf, you used "now" too often methinks :-)	20:38
julienf	mikhas: thanks for the tip. Let me have a look at that.. Guess my french side doesn't help the copy writing :D	20:38
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mikhas	julienf, it's only in the first paragraph	20:40
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julienf	mikhas: yes, you are right :D	20:40
julienf	fixed	20:40
mikhas	"The limited catalogue will be a challenge for a consumer base which is used to 300k+ application store." - well, how is that different for MeeGo?	20:41
lcuk	i have 9000 apps mikhas, how many can you contribute?	20:41
mikhas	certainly the "MeeGo user base" will have to learn to live with a lot less	20:41
mikhas	(I know that MeeGo user base is not entirely correct)	20:42
lcuk	apologies, 9001	20:42
lcuk	(i wrote 9000) :P	20:42
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mikhas	The PDF download for the MeeGo Compliance overview requires a fake email address, hah	20:58
lcuk	requires?	20:58
lcuk	which link?	20:58
mikhas	from julienf's blog post	20:58
julienf	mikhas: yeah, I have no idea why they did that...	20:59
Stskeeps	url for the blog post?	20:59
Stskeeps	err	20:59
mikhas	and you are not aggregated	20:59
Stskeeps	for the compliance overview	20:59
lcuk	i thought we werent meant to discuss vendor specific rumours on this channel?	20:59
Stskeeps	it's monday and we should be in #meego-bar, at least until stuff isn't rumours anymore	21:00
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* lcuk uses the "take your shoes off at other peoples houses and remember their rules"		21:00
mikhas	Who did discuss rumours? We discussed a blog post.	21:01
julienf	lcuk: http://j.mp/lLiZXc and I am talking rumors in there?	21:01
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lcuk	sigh	21:02
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julienf	mikhas: aggregated?	21:02
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mikhas	julienf, not on planet.meego.com	21:04
mikhas	and we still have that stupid community divide between planet and https://meego.com/aggregator, le sigh ...	21:05
julienf	how do I get there? :)	21:06
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Ans5i	"confuse customers" :)	21:08
DawnFoster	planet process here: http://wiki.meego.com/Web_infrastructure/Planet.meego.com/Add_your_blog	21:08
mikhas	thanks Dawn	21:08
mikhas	you shot first	21:08
DawnFoster	this step is particularly important: Also log in to MeeGo News with your meego.com account.	21:09
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DawnFoster	if you forget to do that, it delays the whole process	21:09
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DawnFoster	X-Fade: ping	21:10
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julienf	DawnFoster: where's MeeGo News?	21:21
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DawnFoster	julienf: this one? http://planet.meego.com/	21:21
julienf	ok :)	21:21
DawnFoster	official posts from the meego blog are here: https://meego.com/community/blogs	21:22
DawnFoster	and this is the older but still "official" planet linked from the website: https://meego.com/aggregator	21:22
DawnFoster	in other news, thanks mikhas for filing a bug to fix this mess	21:23
mikhas	:-D	21:23
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timoph	evening	21:29
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iekku	food evening timoph	21:31
timoph	iekku: o/ how's the bug hunt going?	21:32
timoph	food?	21:32
timoph	:)	21:32
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timoph	hmmh. I could actually go for some small late night snack..	21:33
mikhas	timoph, iekku successfully hunts bugs, which apparently is good food	21:33
timoph	:D	21:33
iekku	mikhas, did you just call me FAT?	21:34
iekku	;)	21:34
timoph	I tought she was a veggie	21:34
mikhas	I ... what?	21:34
iekku	:D :D :D	21:34
timoph	btw, my tambourine is progressing nicely	21:35
iekku	timoph, i don't know how the hunt goes, i just try to take care of the catched ones ;)	21:36
timoph	currently it's a bit boring thing to play since it only prints a dubug text when it's supposed to play a sound :)	21:36
mikhas	iekku, aha! correct title for you is bug zookeeper then	21:37
timoph	tambourine for the deaf!	21:37
iekku	mikhas, sounds good (and i like the zookeeper game)	21:38
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iekku	timoph, have you deadline already?	21:38
timoph	nope. I'm doing it when I have time for it	21:39
timoph	it's progressing fast since I'm cheating and writing it with python ;)	21:39
iekku	hahahaha	21:40
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timoph	it's a pretty easy thing to implement anyway	21:41
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timoph	fortunately I have a 2 week vacation coming up so I catch up on personal projects	21:45
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* timoph can't write today :/		21:47
timoph	(yet again)	21:47
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rafael2k	hi people, can the current meego properly make call in N900?	21:51
timoph	it can	21:52
timoph	at least the Community Edition can	21:52
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rafael2k	timoph: can you explain me why more then one meego edition?	21:52
timoph	wait-a-sec	21:52
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timoph	http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900#Introduction	21:53
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timoph	the CE is targetting to be a "product" based on MeeGo 1.2 and the images in meego.com are basically MeeGo hardware adaptation for N900	21:54
timoph	someone can correct me if I'm talking out of my a	21:55
rafael2k	thanks!	21:55
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rafael2k	so I should always use the CE in my N900, right?	21:55
timoph	rafael2k: ah. you might also want to read this -> http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/CE_Factsheet	21:55
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timoph	dunno. about always but currently it's the way to go	21:56
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rafael2k	does the CE comes with native development toolchain?	21:57
timoph	and depends on what you're after. i.e. if you want to work on the wayland stuff you should be looking into the 1.3 branch, etc.	21:57
timoph	I've been using the community obs to build stuff for it	21:57
timoph	if you're using Qt/QML things should just work(tm) :)	21:58
timoph	meaning same code for i.e. MeeGo tablet images and CE builds	21:58
rafael2k	nice	21:59
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rafael2k	On wednesday a new version is out, right?	21:59
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timoph	hopefully, yes	22:00
timoph	you can already try the daily builds	22:00
maligor	what was 'DE' before for? Developer Edition?	22:00
rafael2k	where can I grab it?	22:00
timoph	yep. it was renamed	22:00
timoph	repository.maemo.org/meego/n900-de/	22:00
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maligor	I never got around to testing it much, but does it function as a phone? :P	22:01
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timoph	it does. It has it's short comings but things basically work	22:01
* timoph searches for test results		22:01
rafael2k	If it comes with g++ and qt is fine for me	22:02
rafael2k	; )	22:02
timoph	http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/QA/Performance	22:02
timoph	http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Status	22:02
timoph	rafael2k: you should try the community obs for building stuff.	22:03
maligor	pretty cool	22:04
timoph	anyway. The major things affecting CE's usabilty are some performance related bugs	22:04
rafael2k	obs?	22:04
timoph	build service	22:04
rafael2k	nice	22:05
maligor	well, 'nice' isn't how I'd describe it, but it does have it's advantages	22:05
timoph	you give your sources and a spec/yaml file and it builds your app, creates rpm and makes a repo for you	22:05
* timoph likes obs		22:05
rafael2k	btw, but I'd like also to compile think natively	22:05
rafael2k	s/think/things	22:05
maligor	yeah, but it just plain doesn'twork atall for the development workflow	22:05
timoph	you can do local builds with obs's command line clien osc	22:06
rafael2k	this build system seems interesting	22:06
maligor	I know, I've used that quite a bit	22:06
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timoph	rafael2k: http://wiki.meego.com/OBS	22:07
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timoph	note that there are 2 instances of obs in meego.com. the one that's actually used to build the distribution and the community one	22:07
rafael2k	maligor: yeap, I agree, for a proper development workflow, only proper toolchain locally installed works	22:07
maligor	you can make that with obs atleast for x86 actually	22:08
timoph	there's the MeeGo SDK but I must admit that I haven't used it :/	22:08
maligor	but I'm not sure if it works for community obs, I've only used it with the core obs	22:08
maligor	but what I've basically done when I want to develop on a meego environment is build the basic package with obs, it pulls the packages and makes a chroot	22:09
rafael2k	Does the SDK needs an opensuse or fedora for a easy-mode install?	22:09
maligor	there's a bunch of distroes	22:10
maligor	http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/tools/repos/	22:10
wmarone	rafael2k: you can do various versions of ubuntu as well	22:10
maligor	well.. debian and ubuntu in addition:P	22:10
wmarone	or windows	22:10
maligor	wmarone, ^M^M :P	22:11
rafael2k	I'm in a ubuntu right now	22:11
rafael2k	great!	22:11
rafael2k	; )	22:11
maligor	as long as it isn't 11.04	22:11
timoph	there's meego-packaging-tools in ubuntu's own repos for 11.04	22:12
rafael2k	apt-get install meego-packaging-tools	22:12
timoph	yep	22:12
rafael2k	Need to get 3,412 kB of archives. <- : ))	22:12
timoph	oh. and you'll need an accound for the community obs	22:13
rafael2k	ok	22:14
timoph	dunno if the process is still to ask for the accound from lbt or X-Fade	22:14
timoph	account even	22:14
maligor	probably	22:14
rafael2k	thanks people! I'll first start playing localy.	22:15
maligor	the obs system doesn't really work locally	22:15
maligor	what you can do however, is use the meego qemu images to build stuff	22:15
maligor	or rather the obs needs it's connection to the internet to work properly	22:16
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timoph	yep	22:16
* lbt_nur hears OBS chat...		22:16
rafael2k	I'm thinking in a cross toolchain	22:16
maligor	but you can use rpmbuild in qemu to make packages even	22:16
timoph	lbt_nur: :)	22:17
maligor	I don't think I've seen a cross toolchain anywhere	22:17
maligor	meego is quite ... extensive	22:17
lbt_nur	maligor: MeeGo does cross automatically	22:17
timoph	rafael2k: there's your guy if you have questions about obs ^	22:17
rafael2k	lbt_nur: hi	22:18
maligor	lbt_nur, I guess I never had to target non-x86 ;P	22:18
lbt_nur	rafael2k: hi	22:18
lbt_nur	maligor: I remember that	22:18
rafael2k	I'm bought an N900 to play with meego	22:18
maligor	I think I once tried building arm targets locally and it fails	22:18
maligor	err.. failed	22:18
rafael2k	I'm trying to get a proper toolchain in order to start playing with it	22:18
* lbt_nur logs onto meego in anticipation of the next question		22:18
rafael2k	people, apt-get install meego-sdk-armv7l is going fine, thanks!	22:19
rafael2k	next step is to set up a qemu-arm image to test the apps, right?	22:20
lbt_nur	that's good for gui development ... you want OBS for chroot/middleware	22:20
lbt_nur	whilst I'm in who wants community obs accounts enabled (for OSS sw only)	22:20
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rafael2k	lbt_nur: I'll ask an OBS account when I get my app compilable and running reasonably in the N900	22:23
rafael2k	people, have you done something like the nitdroid installer for maemo?	22:24
maligor	rafael2k, what sort of app is it?	22:24
rafael2k	something like "apt-get install meego-installer"	22:24
rafael2k	kinda gui app to help installing meego for maemo users	22:25
rafael2k	and add it to maemo repo	22:25
maligor	stuff like that will probably come around once there's real production hw	22:25
rafael2k	fine	22:25
ali1234	that should be a pretty simple app	22:26
ali1234	how are you going about it?	22:26
ali1234	pretty much all you need to do is install the u-boot package and then dd an image to sd card and reboot	22:27
ali1234	i think someone else was already working on something like it too	22:27
maligor	like: sudo dd if=/path/to/file of=/dev/sda ? ;P	22:27
rafael2k	that's it, simple	22:28
ali1234	maligor: yeah pretty much, except it would be /deb/mmcblkX on maemo	22:28
maligor	I once dd'ed over my MBR, lucky thing the file was small	22:28
maligor	scary tool	22:28
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ali1234	rafael2k: it would probably be easier on you to use the nokia qt sdk rather than maemo/meego sdks	22:29
mikhas	no SDK is the best SDK	22:29
maligor	depends entirely on what you want to achieve	22:29
rafael2k	ali1234: hummm, good point	22:29
ali1234	although that only works for maemo	22:29
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ali1234	but then you just port it using the OBS	22:29
maligor	if you want to write qml with meego component sets, it seems to be difficult without a proper environment	22:30
ali1234	the maemo scratchbox is absolutely not the best SDK :)	22:30
maligor	and last time I tried the qt meegotouch theme engine, it was... interesting	22:31
wmarone	maemo's sdk is a killjoy ;p	22:31
ali1234	i didn't even try to install the meego sdk	22:32
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maligor	I use it for early middleware testing	22:32
maligor	mostly only because it has qt 4.7 tho	22:32
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ali1234	if i want to develop something on meego i just do it on a real meego install	22:33
maligor	ali1234, yes...	22:33
ali1234	i don't want meego stuff messing up my ubuntu	22:33
ali1234	like the maemo one did	22:33
maligor	ali1234, there's some problems with that	22:33
ali1234	maybe it isn't a problem	22:33
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maligor	ofcourse it depends what device you use	22:33
ali1234	i use an ideapad	22:33
maligor	yeah, that's decent	22:34
ali1234	there's still problems	22:34
ali1234	some srpms won't compile this way	22:34
ali1234	with rpmbuild i mean	22:34
maligor	really?	22:35
rafael2k	<- N900	22:35
ali1234	yeah, like kernel	22:35
maligor	I haven't used the rpmbuild option for a while because it has been impractical	22:35
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ali1234	bug 14307	22:35
maligor	and I can just use obs for package creation	22:35
MeeGoBot	Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14307 nor, Medium, ---, kai.chai, RESO WORKSFORME, kernel build with rpmbuild fails during prep	22:35
ali1234	still not actually fixed	22:36
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ali1234	but hey at least i don't have to add a bunch of unsigned repos to my ubuntu	22:37
maligor	mm, only used fully manual for building the kernel	22:37
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ali1234	i haven't ever run into an ubuntu package that can't be built with fakeroot dpkg-buildpackage	22:38
ali1234	including kernel	22:38
ali1234	although Qt can only be built once because of it's manky configure script	22:39
ali1234	then you have to delete the source dir and start again	22:39
ali1234	which is annoying cos it takes ages to compile	22:39
ali1234	and yeah, i reported that one too, still not fixed	22:39
maligor	well, the mrst kernel build system in meego was a bit odd certainly	22:40
ali1234	https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qt4-x11/+bug/688556	22:40
ali1234	oo someone made a patch :)	22:40
maligor	for some reason if you built it in obs, you couldn't manually build it from the same tree anymore	22:40
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ali1234	oh no wait, that was me :)	22:41
ali1234	hmm hang on, i'm not peter pearse	22:41
Stskeeps	"really"?	22:41
Stskeeps	:P	22:41
ali1234	well i guess that's not my bug report :S	22:42
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ali1234	https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qt4-x11/+bug/505582	22:44
ali1234	that's mine :)	22:44
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