| npm | ali1234: see package chrome-meego-extension | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| ali1234 | what about it? | 00:00 |
| npm | that's where the message comes from i believe | 00:00 |
| ali1234 | it's already reported? | 00:00 |
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| ali1234 | java is not in the meego repos? | 00:01 |
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| ali1234 | "JAVA+YOU" | 00:02 |
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| npm | no, java is oracles | 00:02 |
| ali1234 | ...and it has no idea what OS i am running | 00:02 |
| npm | peraps openjdk | 00:02 |
| ali1234 | i don't see "meego" | 00:02 |
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| npm | you have to use the fedora one | 00:02 |
| ali1234 | this sucks from a UX perspective, i hope you guys realise this | 00:03 |
| ali1234 | there isn't any fedora one | 00:03 |
| ali1234 | there's only "linux" | 00:03 |
| npm | the one that says 32 bit RPM format | 00:03 |
| ali1234 | i will take the bin file | 00:03 |
| npm | run the script as the regular user so it doesn't install | 00:03 |
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| npm | and just unpacks the rpms | 00:03 |
| ali1234 | meh | 00:04 |
| npm | then throw out the javadb rpms and just install the jdk one | 00:04 |
| ali1234 | i will justtake the bin file and install it properly | 00:04 |
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| npm | "properly" means it does stuff you may not want | 00:04 |
| npm | like install a bunch of javadb rpms that i'll never use | 00:04 |
| ali1234 | well, installing fedora rpms on a not-fedora distro is pretty high on my list of "things i don't want" | 00:04 |
| npm | that's kind of like saying breathing air is on the high list of things you don't want | 00:05 |
| npm | you may drown trying | 00:05 |
| ali1234 | hmm what's this | 00:05 |
| ali1234 | "* please use the 32-bit version for Java applet and Java Web Start support" | 00:05 |
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| ali1234 | i bet that's why it doesn't work on my ubuntu | 00:06 |
| npm | basically since nobodys heard about meego, if you go to any site, be it adobe, oracle, or google to install all their must have software you'll be installing Fedora RPMs | 00:06 |
| npm | except google labels theirs Fedora or OpenSUSE | 00:06 |
| ali1234 | no i won't | 00:06 |
| ali1234 | i'll be downloading the package that says "all other" | 00:06 |
| ali1234 | the one that's a .bin file | 00:07 |
| ali1234 | the one that doesn't go anywhere near the package manager | 00:07 |
| ali1234 | actually i've never seen software distributed as rpm packages before | 00:07 |
| ali1234 | it's normally a deb file or a tgz | 00:07 |
| npm | that's silly. java updates regularly and i want to let RPM do the updating | 00:07 |
| ali1234 | i didnt think anyone was insane enough to try to make cross platform RPMs | 00:07 |
| mwichmann | actually, lots of people try that | 00:08 |
| ali1234 | considering how easily RPM explodes even with native distro RPMs | 00:08 |
| mwichmann | it's.... tricky | 00:08 |
| npm | same way i've done it for decades on fedora or RHEL boxen, some of which were for major sites | 00:08 |
| ali1234 | boy i sure am in trolling mode today | 00:08 |
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| ali1234 | also, if you just download a rpm from a website and install it with no repo backing it, you won't get any updates | 00:09 |
| npm | Well it googles case their chrome RPM claims it's for Fedora or OpenSuse but fails at meego because meego doesn't have certain expected dependencies | 00:09 |
| ali1234 | unless the java rpm also messes with your repo configuration | 00:09 |
| ali1234 | and that would be even higher on my list of "DO NOT WANT" | 00:09 |
| npm | but they can be worked around either with http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo-Lem or by nastier hacks | 00:10 |
| ali1234 | yes i read your email | 00:10 |
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| npm | the java rpm does not mess w/ repo config | 00:10 |
| npm | google's does | 00:10 |
| ali1234 | this download sure is slow | 00:10 |
| * lbt_nur agrees on the 'nasty hack' category... except that hack implies some kind of goodness :) | 00:11 | |
| ali1234 | not sure if because of ISP or just a slow downoload :( | 00:11 |
| * lbt_nur greets npm :) .... hey there ! | 00:11 | |
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| npm | hi lbt_nur ... nur == nuremberg? | 00:13 |
| lbt_nur | yup | 00:13 |
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| lbt_nur | working with some nice people over here | 00:14 |
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| admiral0 | hi | 00:15 |
| admiral0 | i can't seem to install meego DE on my n900 | 00:16 |
| admiral0 | can anybody help | 00:16 |
| admiral0 | ? | 00:16 |
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| admiral0 | http://paste.kde.org/82423 | 00:19 |
| admiral0 | anyone? | 00:20 |
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| admiral0 | -.- | 00:20 |
| phaeron | admiral0: it's kinda late ;) | 00:21 |
| Saviq | admiral0: are you sure you want to overwrite your maemo installation? it's best to dualboot | 00:21 |
| admiral0 | i'm hardcore | 00:22 |
| ali1234 | npm: i just tried to install google chrome RPM and it *looks* like it's going to work but then it just sits on "installing" for ever | 00:22 |
| admiral0 | no bother to dissuade me | 00:22 |
| lbt_nur | s/hardcore/inviting a diasaster/ | 00:22 |
| ali1234 | pretty bad really | 00:22 |
| admiral0 | i backed up everything | 00:22 |
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| Saviq | admiral0: still, it's simply bad for your device to reflash it again and again | 00:23 |
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| Saviq | it's not like you can replace the internal flash easily | 00:23 |
| ali1234 | and now the window manager has gone crazy | 00:24 |
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| admiral0 | i had my mb replaced by nokia (usb thingie) | 00:24 |
| admiral0 | a couple of flashes won't kill it | 00:24 |
| lbt_nur | admiral0: when the DE devs tell you not to do it unless you know what you're doing then the fact that you ask for help in the wrong chan suggests.... you may not :) | 00:24 |
| admiral0 | meego-dev? | 00:24 |
| ali1234 | no matter what i do i just get "myzone"plastered over everything | 00:24 |
| admiral0 | i am no noob dudes | 00:24 |
| Saviq | admiral0: then please listen | 00:25 |
| Saviq | get a cheap-o 2GB microSD | 00:25 |
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| admiral0 | i am no noob dudes | 00:27 |
| admiral0 | dammit | 00:27 |
| admiral0 | i thoought i was in console | 00:27 |
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| ali1234 | fail | 00:28 |
| ali1234 | now the whole UI has crashed | 00:28 |
| admiral0 | yeah up<enter> works as expected | 00:28 |
| ali1234 | seriosuly does anyone even test this stuff before it's released? | 00:28 |
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| lbt_nur | ali1234: let me explain how opensource works.... | 00:29 |
| lbt_nur | on second thoughts.... | 00:29 |
| ali1234 | lbt_nur: 1.2.0 is significantly more buggy than the RCs that came out in may | 00:29 |
| npm | sorry had to step away....... must go pickup son early... back later | 00:29 |
| ali1234 | it's like someone broke into the repo the day before it was released and inserted hundreds and hundreds of bugs | 00:29 |
| alterego | It's more of a feature freeze than a stable release it seems ;) | 00:30 |
| lbt_nur | it's stable... it's just not reliable | 00:30 |
| lbt_nur | which is not as insane as it sounds | 00:30 |
| ali1234 | i just wonder what's the point of even calling it a release when it's much lower quality than the development versions that came out a few days earlier | 00:30 |
| lbt_nur | ali1234: how many devs have you got building a product against it? | 00:31 |
| ali1234 | i mean if i want to get anything done with this i'm going to have to go back to like a 1.1.90 version or something | 00:31 |
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| admiral0 | i get "Unable to enumerate USB devices!" | 00:31 |
| * lbt_nur continues to be amazed that people think MeeGo is a distro | 00:31 | |
| ali1234 | yes, that's it, continue to make excuses | 00:32 |
| ali1234 | if meego doesn't work properly, it's my fault | 00:32 |
| ali1234 | because i should have just fixed every bug before i even knew about them | 00:32 |
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| lbt_nur | nope... but your expecatiions are wrong | 00:32 |
| lbt_nur | and it's not your fault | 00:32 |
| ali1234 | why is it wrong to expect that 1.2.0 doesn't have new bugs that weren't in 1.1.90? | 00:33 |
| lbt_nur | because the UX isn't the focus of MeeGo | 00:34 |
| ali1234 | the bugs aren't all in the UX | 00:34 |
| lbt_nur | fair answer | 00:34 |
| ali1234 | zypper si doesn't even work | 00:34 |
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| ali1234 | and it looks like the whole X server has crashed as well | 00:34 |
| ali1234 | this is i would suspect hardware errors if it wasn't for the fact that all the other OS on this machine work perfectly | 00:35 |
| admiral0 | i found the issue | 00:36 |
| admiral0 | it was libusb | 00:36 |
| admiral0 | i downloaded ubuntu deb | 00:36 |
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| admiral0 | and preloaded it | 00:36 |
| admiral0 | so if someone from arch or chakra comes with the same issue say to them it's libusb | 00:37 |
| Saviq | jeez what's with wiki.meego.com? DDoS? | 00:37 |
| ali1234 | what's wrong with libusb? | 00:37 |
| admiral0 | i dunno | 00:38 |
| admiral0 | flasher didn't like it | 00:38 |
| ali1234 | ah maybe it's a version mismatch | 00:38 |
| admiral0 | Unable to enumerate USB devices! | 00:38 |
| ali1234 | flasher is not open source right? | 00:38 |
| admiral0 | nope | 00:38 |
| ali1234 | or you got a binary either way | 00:38 |
| ali1234 | so that's probably it | 00:38 |
| admiral0 | they could have statically compiled it | 00:38 |
| admiral0 | but they didn't | 00:38 |
| ali1234 | i think there's multiple versions of it actually | 00:39 |
| admiral0 | it's same version btw | 00:39 |
| ali1234 | pretty sure that i always download the one that says "32 bit static tgz" | 00:39 |
| ali1234 | and it's like 10mb | 00:39 |
| ali1234 | but maybe i'm thinking of something else | 00:39 |
| admiral0 | strange | 00:39 |
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| admiral0 | ldd says some libs are dynlinked | 00:39 |
| lbt_nur | Saviq: ?? | 00:39 |
| lbt_nur | WFM.... | 00:39 |
| lbt_nur | is it slow or being changed? | 00:39 |
| Saviq | lbt_nur: sloooow | 00:40 |
| admiral0 | ali1234: is it normal for the n900 to sit quiet? | 00:40 |
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| admiral0 | term is busy | 00:40 |
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| admiral0 | but no output | 00:40 |
| lbt_nur | Saviq: not here... | 00:40 |
| Saviq | lbt_nur: though it was me, but all the other *.meego.com seem to work fine | 00:40 |
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| Saviq | lbt_nur: it's fine if it's just me | 00:41 |
| * lbt_nur wishes our external monitoring in IT was in better shape | 00:41 | |
| lbt_nur | but it's not high on the prio | 00:41 |
| ali1234 | npm: ok, i installed the jre rpm, java still doesn't work in chromium though | 00:42 |
| ali1234 | it just says "missing plugin" | 00:42 |
| Saviq | ohkay, anyone managed to get additional libraries into SDK sysroot? tried `mad-admin xrpm`, but it seems repo.meego.com uses some rpm cpio format that's unsupported in madde :/ | 00:44 |
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| ali1234 | aaaaand... finally got it working | 00:47 |
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| alterego | Saviq: that is kinda lame :/ | 00:49 |
| Saviq | alterego: kinda | 00:49 |
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| Saviq | alterego: fortunately there are other (documented) ways | 00:49 |
| alterego | Nice :) | 00:50 |
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| ali1234 | npm: netalyzr detects 820 ms buffer latency | 00:58 |
| ali1234 | but in some applications the lag is more like 8 seconds | 00:58 |
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| alterego | ali1234: you're looking at network performance? | 01:03 |
| ali1234 | not really no | 01:03 |
| ali1234 | this is not meego related | 01:03 |
| ali1234 | it's my ISP | 01:03 |
| alterego | Oh, m'kay | 01:03 |
| ali1234 | http://forum.demon.net/topic/world-of-warcraft-latency-issues | 01:03 |
| alterego | You play warcraft? | 01:03 |
| SpeedEvil | loltency. | 01:03 |
| ali1234 | i don't play WoW - their broken packet shaper is affecting all kinds of things | 01:03 |
| alterego | Ah, m'kat ;) | 01:03 |
| alterego | ~m'kay .. | 01:04 |
| ali1234 | but the WoW players are the most vocal :) | 01:04 |
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| alterego | Heh | 01:04 |
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| ali1234 | so i'm just trying to pin down exactly what it does and does not affect so that i can raise a ticket that they can't just fix by whitelisting one IP address | 01:04 |
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| alterego | Wouldn't that be a good thing? | 01:07 |
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| alterego | I found with my previous ISP, they didn't limit SSH, | 01:08 |
| ali1234 | what do you mean? | 01:08 |
| ali1234 | yes, same here | 01:08 |
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| ali1234 | if i tunnel the affected programs through ssh, there is no latency | 01:08 |
| alterego | So I used to download large files to a remote server, then SCP them to my local network :) | 01:08 |
| ali1234 | i even posted to that affect on the forum thread | 01:08 |
| alterego | Heh, they should all setup a proxy? :) | 01:08 |
| SpeedEvil | ali1234: Presumably you're not going through the affected hops in that case. | 01:08 |
| ali1234 | yes, i posted a link to how to run WoW over ssh | 01:08 |
| ali1234 | SpeedEvil: no, same server, different protocol | 01:09 |
| alterego | Heh | 01:09 |
| ali1234 | but the thing is | 01:09 |
| ali1234 | well, whitelisting on a per IP basis is not going to help me | 01:10 |
| ali1234 | it will fix it for the WoW players | 01:10 |
| ali1234 | but i don't play WoW, so i'm not helped | 01:10 |
| ali1234 | unless they whitelist every IP address ever | 01:10 |
| ali1234 | but then i might as well just ask them to turn off their packet shaper | 01:10 |
| ali1234 | which they clearly are not going to do | 01:11 |
| * SpeedEvil parts the channel. "At least I have chicken" | 01:11 | |
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| ali1234 | so basically i need to figure out how to raise the problem as a fault that perfectly matches what the packet shaper does | 01:13 |
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| ali1234 | that way they can't refuse to fix it, and they can't fix it without fixing it for everyone | 01:13 |
| ali1234 | but to do that i need to figure out what the shaper is actually doing | 01:13 |
| SpeedEvil | ali1234: I remember that plusnet actually sets TOS bbyte on packets going through the shaper, so you can see the clas | 01:14 |
| SpeedEvil | s | 01:14 |
| ali1234 | this seems to only affect outgoing packets | 01:15 |
| ali1234 | but i will check that out | 01:15 |
| alterego | That seems, odd. | 01:15 |
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| alterego | You're async right? | 01:15 |
| ali1234 | yes | 01:15 |
| ali1234 | ADSL | 01:15 |
| SpeedEvil | ali1234: Does the same happen to other pservers if you use WoW packets? | 01:15 |
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| ali1234 | i dunno, i don't know what WoW packets are | 01:16 |
| alterego | I should probably head to bed soon. | 01:21 |
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| Alison_Chaiken | http://www.visionmobile.com/blog/2011/06/developer-economics-2011-winners-and-losers-in-the-platform-race/ | 01:48 |
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| Alison_Chaiken | Rather positive press coverage of MeeGo. Big up to DawnFoster and qgil, who are implicitly praised by the article author. | 01:49 |
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| Alison_Chaiken | Ah, and I shouldn't neglect to mention Bob Spencer and texrat as well. You guys are doing a great job. | 01:52 |
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| npm | the article talks about JavaME being abandoned... and doesn't mention Oracle pushing http://javafx.com/ these days | 02:14 |
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| user0 | possible to connect to a remote shell using the rescue initad ? | 03:30 |
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| zergmk2 | #list | 04:21 |
| boss | zergmk2: Admin, Channel, Config, Misc, Notify, Owner, and User | 04:21 |
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| iekku | morning | 06:19 |
| berndhs | yeah, time to go to sleep | 06:20 |
| iekku | berndhs, :) | 06:20 |
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| berndhs | good night | 06:22 |
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| * mikeleib waves to all the boys and girls of the world | 07:36 | |
| iekku | \o | 07:36 |
| mikeleib | in looking at some of the maemo tools, I came across xresponse | 07:38 |
| mikeleib | I think it can measure how long it takes for an app to start, but I can't seem to get it to do what I want | 07:39 |
| mikeleib | anybody with experience in such things in the house? | 07:39 |
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| iekku | i think n900 ce people have measured the times, but not sure what they have used | 07:42 |
| SpeedEvil | I vaguely remember it's somehing that LD_PRELOADS the app, and then watches for GTK calls | 07:43 |
| SpeedEvil | window calls, rather | 07:43 |
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| mikeleib | from the README, it talks about damage events | 07:48 |
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| SpeedEvil | Initially the WM maps the window, and then sends the app a damage event, telling it to paint the window - I think | 07:51 |
| SpeedEvil | But it's been a while since I've read it. | 07:51 |
| mikeleib | yah | 07:52 |
| Jay_BEE | bbl... i think... | 07:55 |
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| npm | a lil more progress: http://nielsmayer.com/meego/tab/meego-app-youtube.png | 08:36 |
| npm | decided to make it an app first, then a panel like http://nielsmayer.com/meego/tab/meego-ux-panels-youtube.png | 08:37 |
| npm | (just re-wrapped cutetube for maemo/n900 into tablet ux) | 08:38 |
| vvaltone | why the menu/back buttons? | 08:39 |
| vvaltone | the meego ux components provide atleast the 'menu' button | 08:40 |
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| vvaltone | but I guess you're not using them? | 08:40 |
| GonzoTheGreat | looks like stock qmltube (old version) to me | 08:40 |
| npm | good point... because i just dropped the existing source code in and made it work | 08:40 |
| npm | it is | 08:41 |
| npm | GonzoTheGreat: is there a newer version? | 08:41 |
| GonzoTheGreat | maemo doesn't have meego ux component | 08:41 |
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| GonzoTheGreat | Are you using qmltube (qml) ore cutetube (python)? | 08:42 |
| npm | i just grabbed http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/source/q/qmltube/qmltube_0.6.5.tar.gz and started hacking | 08:43 |
| npm | not much hacking actully, just some reparenting | 08:43 |
| GonzoTheGreat | I am running qmltube-0.9.8! | 08:43 |
| npm | so if there's a newer version or a git repo i don't know about pls let me know i found it here http://maemo.org/packages/source/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_source/qmltube/0.6.5/ | 08:44 |
| npm | (doh!) | 08:44 |
| npm | where from? | 08:44 |
| GonzoTheGreat | toolbar is quite different | 08:44 |
| npm | yeah the comments/related tabs don't work for example | 08:44 |
| GonzoTheGreat | just extras-devel via package manager. | 08:44 |
| npm | they didn't in orig version but if there's a 0.9.8... | 08:45 |
| GonzoTheGreat | Also got the source in scratchbox | 08:45 |
| GonzoTheGreat | same version | 08:45 |
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| GonzoTheGreat | The latest version has qtmultimedia playback as well | 08:46 |
| npm | cool. well i didn't do much work. | 08:47 |
| npm | i was trying to figure it out, then i decided to let qml figure it out for me and fix errors till i got things running | 08:47 |
| npm | and i got things running in short while | 08:47 |
| GonzoTheGreat | IMHO it is the best qml-based program around. Quite snappy even on the old dog ;) | 08:48 |
| villev | /var/run/obs/worker/1/build/build: line 1259: 13235 Segmentation fault      umount $BUILD_ROOT | 08:49 |
| Stskeeps | nice(TM) | 08:49 |
| npm | yes, i started doing my own in pure qml, and was reminded by villev (hi ville) about cutetube qml being available in source | 08:49 |
| villev | :) | 08:49 |
| GonzoTheGreat | Have dabbled myself. Only desktop widgets so far though. Never got enough time to do something bigger. | 08:50 |
| npm | mine is a lot more concise ( http://ytd-meego.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/playground/ytapi-jsonviewer/ ) | 08:50 |
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| npm | and probably runs faster in some situations since it uses JSON API | 08:51 |
| npm | (on n900, feed-reading seems to spend a lot of time garbage collecting in qml) | 08:51 |
| GonzoTheGreat | UX performance seems much better than other applications e.g. kasvopus etc | 08:52 |
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| npm | yeah it works nicely even on n900, but then again so does my json viewer, other than firing up flash to display the vids | 08:52 |
| npm | so anyways i figured it's a good program to build for the tablet, and a cute-tube based panel would improve http://nielsmayer.com/meego/tab/meego-ux-panels-youtube.png | 08:54 |
| GonzoTheGreat | so the panel is based your code? | 08:55 |
| npm | same deal, a quick rip through my existing code to see if it would work in panel context | 08:55 |
| GonzoTheGreat | nice | 08:56 |
| npm | but then do i want to spend tome reinventing wheel or can i just frob cutetube into a panel | 08:56 |
| npm | decided i can, but would first run cutetube as an app | 08:56 |
| npm | to see if anything else weird came up first | 08:56 |
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| GonzoTheGreat | I think the trouble is handcrafted qml<-> qml components<->meego ux components | 08:58 |
| npm | but i have other stuff i want to do so leveraging as much of cutetube would be better | 08:58 |
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| vvaltone | meego ux components are handcrafted qml ;P | 08:59 |
| vvaltone | or sort of anyway | 08:59 |
| GonzoTheGreat | How do you write something which works (intergrates) on maemo/symbian/meego-ux | 08:59 |
| npm | well that's true, but the problem is on the tablet, if you don't wrap it w/ appropriate parent windows then it hoses up the tablet ux | 09:00 |
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| npm | for example running plain cutetube-qml runs a full-window which prevents window switching | 09:00 |
| GonzoTheGreat | Is that what qml components were for? | 09:01 |
| npm | well what i think is needed is an abstraction class that lets you write the same parent and wrapping to target whatever platform | 09:01 |
| npm | so you don't have to keep rewrapping for different uxes | 09:01 |
| npm | but beyond that a "widget set" is needed along with CDE-like standards of behavior for the desktop, translated to the tablet world | 09:02 |
| GonzoTheGreat | But there aren't consistent implementation of Qt.components yet?! | 09:02 |
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| npm | (ultimately, i don't want to think about transitions and visual fluff, i want to use whatever is appropriate for the device) | 09:03 |
| GonzoTheGreat | I thought e.g. the implementation Window would handle this | 09:03 |
| npm | have the device be my fluffer :-) | 09:03 |
| GonzoTheGreat | implementation of Window | 09:03 |
| vvaltone | yeah, it does | 09:03 |
| GonzoTheGreat | So are meego ux components compatible with Qt.components? | 09:04 |
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| GonzoTheGreat | They are different includes right now, aren't they? | 09:04 |
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| vvaltone | a quick look, it's a superset? | 09:05 |
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| npm | well basically i had to get rid of Window and reparent w/ MeeGo.Window | 09:05 |
| npm | MeeGo.Window { // see: ~/qtquick/ux/meego-ux-components/src/components/ux/Window.qml | 09:05 |
| GonzoTheGreat | Which I think is bad. | 09:05 |
| npm | and MeeGo.AppPage { // see: ~/qtquick/ux/meego-ux-components/src/components/ux/AppPage.qml | 09:05 |
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| npm | i do too, but i'm just playing software DJ with the beat someone else chose | 09:06 |
| npm | trying not to have a software trainwreck in the process | 09:07 |
| GonzoTheGreat | Well I was planning to do qml components for maemo, the lack of clarity however means I haven't started yet. | 09:07 |
| npm | ah... well i'm basically using the tablet ux because i don't like wasting time doing stuff that should be trivial like popping up a dialog box | 09:08 |
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| npm | or making a selector, etc... so once Components are ready and I see apps being built w/ them, i'll give em a try | 09:09 |
| GonzoTheGreat | too true | 09:10 |
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| GonzoTheGreat | I think that is the main problem at the moment. However if meego ux is different again there is no point. | 09:10 |
| npm | y'all haven't made very good progress in the last 20 years, given where i was at 20 years ago: http://nielsmayer.com/p45-mayer.pdf | 09:11 |
| npm | aka qml developed in the right language :-) | 09:12 |
| * GonzoTheGreat thinks flame war is near | 09:12 | |
| npm | nah, i | 09:12 |
| npm | m done w/ language wars. all hail javascript | 09:13 |
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| npm | but there are a lot of steps backwards taken, in tablet-UX... it's like X10 all over again | 09:14 |
| GonzoTheGreat | waltone: who is ther any cooparetaion (left) between meego components and qt.components? | 09:14 |
| npm | putting the window management functionality into the app | 09:14 |
| * GonzoTheGreat should learn typing | 09:14 | |
| npm | or the fact that my app spends time burbling about which neighbors wireless connections are going on/offline so as to draw the icon when it disconnects | 09:16 |
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| npm | or on a wired network it burbles "Debug: id: 0 name: Wired state: 6 type: ethernet: path: /profile/default/ethernet_60eb69283c97_cable" | 09:17 |
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| iekku | good morning gabrbedd | 11:15 |
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| RST38h | Anyone alive? =) | 11:35 |
| Stskeeps | vaguely | 11:35 |
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| RST38h | Stskeeps: there is a "where have all developers left?" thread on tm^H^H^H^H^oh sorry :) | 11:35 |
| andre__ | poke me with a stick and I see what I can do... | 11:36 |
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| dneary | andre__, So - putting in a proposal for MeeGo track in Praha? | 12:36 |
| andre__ | dneary, hmm? :) | 12:37 |
| andre__ | refering to LinuxCon? | 12:37 |
| dneary | andre__, Well, you're in .cz, so, yes | 12:37 |
| andre__ | sorry, still a bit sleepy :) | 12:37 |
| andre__ | hmm, must check deadlines, and then come up with something I could talk about. but basically I'm interested, yupp | 12:38 |
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| ashwinipatankar | any news about N9/N950 ?? | 12:43 |
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| thiago | ashwinipatankar: there's no such device announced | 12:46 |
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| thiago | so, no news | 12:46 |
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| * alterego sighs | 12:46 | |
| ashwinipatankar | thiago: wahts about the teasers and so much buzz on the net ?? | 12:46 |
| X-Fade | ashwinipatankar: Keep an eye on Endgadget. You will learn news a lot faster there than here. | 12:47 |
| andreizro | hy all. I have a small problem related to OBS, but maybe you can help: I recently had to move my OBS machines to a new location, so the IP's changed. I've updated the configuration files, and now OBS works ok - workers do builds, I can checkout and update packages (by API), but when I try to commit a change (using API) I get a server time out. Any clues? | 12:47 |
| thiago | ashwinipatankar: rumours. | 12:47 |
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| thiago | ashwinipatankar: and given past track record, they had a hit rate of less than 50%. | 12:47 |
| ashwinipatankar | thiago: :( | 12:47 |
| * thiago remembers all the discussions on what processor platform the Nokia MeeGo device will have. | 12:48 | |
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| Stskeeps | it will have a quantum processor and kittens with lasers for eyes | 12:48 |
| alterego | And it can turn into a submarine | 12:49 |
| * thiago wants one of those | 12:49 | |
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| alterego | We all want one :) | 12:49 |
| luisbg | was Mx switched to an other toolkit or is UX still using Mx? | 12:50 |
| RST38h | It will swap to the perforated tape. | 12:50 |
| Stskeeps | luisbg: netbook uses it but tablet uses qml | 12:50 |
| thiago | luisbg: the netbook UX is using Mx (I think) | 12:50 |
| RST38h | Swapping to EMMC just wasn't good enough... | 12:50 |
| thiago | the others use QML | 12:50 |
| luisbg | thiago, and Stskeeps, thanks for the info | 12:50 |
| alterego | The netbook UX uses gtk | 12:51 |
| RST38h | BTW, is IVI interface done entirely in QML now? How about MeegoTV? | 12:51 |
| alterego | Handset is the only platform (1.1-1.2) that uses MeeGo Touch Framework. | 12:51 |
| alterego | 1.3 will be all MeeGo UX | 12:51 |
| luisbg | alterego, so gtk + Mx, or just gtk? | 12:51 |
| alterego | luisbg: afaik, netbook is just gtk | 12:52 |
| alterego | Though it has Qt installed too, it's just the UX is Gtk+ based. | 12:52 |
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| RST38h | One more time: IVI and MeegoTV seem to have most developed UXs nowadays. Are they using QML or something else? | 12:55 |
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| alterego | RST38h: I think at least IVI is QML, MeeGo TV is either QML or they're migrating (from talking to people at the conference that is my impression). | 12:56 |
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| RST38h | Aha =) | 12:57 |
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| delac | is there any convenient way to integrate Qt-application to the netbook toolbar? | 13:14 |
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| user0 | hello. | 13:31 |
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| * achipa listens to Putting Out the Fire with Gasoline while posting flamboyant content to the Qt5 feedback list | 13:33 | |
| Stskeeps | are you trying to go out with a bang, or something? | 13:33 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 13:33 |
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| timoph | :) | 13:33 |
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| user0 | possible to get remote access using the rescue Initrd? | 13:34 |
| user0 | i tried yesterday | 13:34 |
| user0 | but i cant seem to connect over ssh or telnet | 13:34 |
| user0 | i can get networking working between the laptop and the n900 using it | 13:34 |
| user0 | like i can ping it, but nothing else | 13:35 |
| timoph | it answers to ping? | 13:35 |
| user0 | yes | 13:35 |
| user0 | but how can i get remote access? | 13:35 |
| timoph | ssh should work | 13:35 |
| Stskeeps | rescue initrd won't have ssh | 13:35 |
| timoph | ah | 13:35 |
| user0 | the recovery terminal is useless | 13:35 |
| user0 | you cant tip commands | 13:36 |
| Stskeeps | also, what rescue initrd? | 13:36 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 13:36 |
| user0 | http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Using_Rescue_Initrd | 13:36 |
| user0 | type* | 13:36 |
| timoph | Stskeeps: it's the thing we based our emmc installer on :) | 13:36 |
| lcuk | achipa, which ML are you winning on? | 13:36 |
| Stskeeps | user0: that doesn't have a telnetd i think | 13:36 |
| Stskeeps | Sage: do we have a telnetd on initrd? | 13:36 |
| user0 | timoph : what port is the sshd running on ? | 13:36 |
| Sage | Stskeeps: I don't think so | 13:37 |
| Stskeeps | Sage: so why do we have usb networking? :P | 13:37 |
| timoph | user0: not actually sure that it has it after thinking about it a bit | 13:37 |
| user0 | Stskeeps : exactly | 13:37 |
| Sage | Stskeeps: well, I used it from console to outside ;) | 13:37 |
| Stskeeps | user0: anyway, you should be able to start a shell and manually start busybox telnetd | 13:37 |
| Sage | not from outside to device :) | 13:38 |
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| Stskeeps | user0: i believe | 13:38 |
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| Stskeeps | user0: also, feel free to file bug reports on bugs.meego.com or send patches | 13:38 |
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| user0 | i'd spend the day reporting bugs | 13:39 |
| Stskeeps | sounds good | 13:39 |
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| Stskeeps | please do :) | 13:39 |
| user0 | i just want to get this thing workig atm | 13:39 |
| user0 | :) | 13:39 |
| Stskeeps | that's more likely to get things working, so | 13:39 |
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| naquad | i'm trying to build gnome-screesaver from sources, but it says: + %reconfigure --with-xscreensaverdir=/usr/share/xscreensaver/config --with-xscreensaverhackdir=/usr/libexec/xscreensaver --with-mit-screensaver=no /var/tmp/rpm-tmp.UfL1mE: line 28: fg: no job control - spec wasn't changed. broken srpm? | 13:39 |
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| user0 | Stskeeps : so are you sure it has a telnetd ? | 13:41 |
| Stskeeps | user0: not 100%, but open a shell with the physical keyboard and ./busybox | 13:41 |
| Stskeeps | er | 13:41 |
| Stskeeps | 'busybox' | 13:41 |
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| Stskeeps | user0: what are you trying to do anyway? | 13:41 |
| user0 | echo root:$(grep -A 13 lock_code /dev/mtd1|tail -1): | 13:42 |
| user0 | thas all i wana do | 13:42 |
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| delac | what is the best way to integrate Qt applications to the Meego netbook UX? Any way to make them as toolbar panels? | 13:44 |
| Stskeeps | okay, so you're trying to hack the lock_code and that's a tad suspicious ;) put that line on a sd card, mount it and sh it from the shell | 13:44 |
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| user0 | :) | 13:44 |
| user0 | thats not possible | 13:44 |
| Stskeeps | sure it is | 13:44 |
| user0 | i cant mount it | 13:45 |
| user0 | i cant type stuff like / or . or - or numbers using the recovery terminal | 13:45 |
| Stskeeps | anyway, bbl | 13:45 |
| Stskeeps | (got a phonecall) | 13:45 |
| user0 | :D | 13:46 |
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| Stskeeps | initrd wasn't exactly made for hacking the lock code, but honestly, save yourself some trouble, flash uboot and boot meego from a microsd card instead | 13:46 |
| Stskeeps | much easier | 13:46 |
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| Stskeeps | has a sshd open | 13:47 |
| user0 | i'll read about that | 13:47 |
| user0 | thx | 13:47 |
| Venemo | delac, you will need to use the API for those panels | 13:49 |
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| delac | Venemo: any documents on that? or tutorials? | 13:51 |
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| lcuk | Stskeeps, accessing the rootfs is more involved than with the rescue initrd | 13:52 |
| Venemo | delac, you could look at the sources of the other panels | 13:52 |
| Venemo | delac, http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-netbook-ux/ | 13:52 |
| delac | Venemo: I think they are all gtk or clutter based... | 13:53 |
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| Venemo | delac, I meant, look at how they make themselves a meego panel | 13:53 |
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| * user0 is lost | 13:54 | |
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| user0 | Stskeeps : where should is start ? | 13:54 |
| user0 | http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Install/U-Boot_from_scratch | 13:54 |
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| user0 | I* | 13:56 |
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| Venemo | delac, I think you will need to use MplPanelClient - http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-netbook-ux/mutter-meego/blobs/master/libmeego-panel/docs/README | 13:56 |
| user0 | give me the wiki pages i'll need to read to get what you had in mind done. | 13:56 |
| user0 | found some guide regarding uboot being installed using the application manager , but thats not gona be useful | 13:57 |
| user0 | since i dont have access to anything. the lock code is asked at boot | 13:57 |
| delac | Venemo: yes, but that seems to be either gtk or clutter based applications. | 13:58 |
| Venemo | delac, so make your own MplPanelClient subclass for Qt or use it directly for your app | 13:58 |
| achipa | lcuk: as the title said, qt5-feedback | 13:59 |
| delac | Venemo: you think using that directly from othervise Qt based application would work nicely? | 13:59 |
| Venemo | delac, yes, I'm sure of it. | 14:00 |
| Venemo | delac, although you will definitely need to dig into the code of the existing implementations to see how it works | 14:00 |
| lcuk | achipa, thanks, have signed up | 14:01 |
| lcuk | http://lists.qt.nokia.com/pipermail/qt5-feedback/2011-June/thread.html | 14:01 |
| Venemo | delac, at the time that API was designed (Moblin times), Qt was not yet considered | 14:01 |
| lcuk | in a long distant time 1048 BQ | 14:02 |
| Venemo | lcuk, great :) | 14:02 |
| Venemo | lcuk, you could add your thoughts to my thoughts about lambdas in that list | 14:02 |
| lcuk | not really I cannot | 14:02 |
| Venemo | why not? | 14:02 |
| lcuk | because I didn't even know you were on the list | 14:03 |
| lcuk | and lambdas remind me more of half-life than coding | 14:03 |
| lcuk | I might know more with more coffee though | 14:04 |
| Venemo | lcuk, from your link, I found this: http://lists.qt.nokia.com/pipermail/qt5-feedback/2011-June/000536.html | 14:04 |
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| lcuk | I know, I am reading it now | 14:05 |
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| rveerama | . | 14:13 |
| TheBootroo | hello | 14:13 |
| TheBootroo | is there a way to test the meego tablet ux directly on my stock Ubuntu 11.04 32bit with Qt4.7.3 ? | 14:14 |
| TheBootroo | i can't achieve to compile it from gitorious there are too many crossing dependancies | 14:15 |
| TheBootroo | could you please tell me a quite simple method to get a running menu + panels + compositor + some simple apps (contacts, calendar and mail e.g.) | 14:15 |
| TheBootroo | thx | 14:15 |
| lcuk | TheBootroo, then resolve the dependencies and it will work | 14:15 |
| lcuk | or download the image and try it from there | 14:16 |
| lcuk | the meego ux is part of meego, it would be worrysome if it did not require bits of meego to build! | 14:16 |
| TheBootroo | lcuk: i can't test image since i dont have atom neither intel graphics, i want only the qt/qml apps on my linux laptop | 14:18 |
| TheBootroo | and i can't find missing deps | 14:18 |
| TheBootroo | lcuk: the only difference between meego and other linux are some qt made libs | 14:18 |
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| TheBootroo | so i would be able to get it run under ubuntu | 14:19 |
| TheBootroo | i want to load meego UX just like gnome or kde , from the gdm screen | 14:19 |
| TheBootroo | i know how to add it to gdm but it can't achieve compilation | 14:19 |
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| TheBootroo | how to dl all src packages from one command ? (apt is handling this very well : you ask for a src packages and it downloads it and all src deps, is there the same with RPM ? ) | 14:20 |
| TheBootroo | i was thinking there could be a PPA with precompiled meego apps for ubuntu (directely in .DEB) but there is none (surprising... am i the first one wanting to awesome MeegO panels on a classic distro with all my usual programs ?) | 14:22 |
| lcuk | no, afaik some folks from debian have been tinkering | 14:23 |
| lcuk | ask there to see how far they have gotten with meego ux components | 14:23 |
| TheBootroo | there is that : http://confusingdevelopers.wordpress.com/2011/04/01/intels-qt-quick-components-available-for-ubuntu/ | 14:24 |
| TheBootroo | but is this sufficient to run meego panels and menu ? | 14:24 |
| lcuk | TheBootroo, speciffically which dependencies are missing | 14:25 |
| TheBootroo | i dont remember, a big number, so i get 'libmeegotouch', 'mthemedaemon', 'contextkit','libseaside' and a bunch of others but some didn't compiled because of missing others deps | 14:27 |
| lcuk | have you ever "ported" applications from outside ubuntu into ubuntu? | 14:27 |
| TheBootroo | yes, starting by maemo apps | 14:28 |
| TheBootroo | with maemo specific code | 14:28 |
| user0 | is there a faster way than http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Install/NFS#Installing_NFS_server to get remote access ? | 14:29 |
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| TheBootroo | i've even created replacement qt classes for maemo's message box, stacked windows and notification banners.... | 14:29 |
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| user0 | i dont need meego installed i just need a remote shell | 14:29 |
| user0 | or some recovery terminal that works | 14:29 |
| alterego | Then why are you here? | 14:29 |
| TheBootroo | lcuk: the https://launchpad.net/~forumnokia/+archive/fn-ppa repos is no more updated | 14:30 |
| timoph | user0: well you need to boot something. Like Stskeeps said the easy way is to boot meego from sd (you can load the kernel without using uboot) | 14:30 |
| lcuk | TheBootroo, ask around ubuntu if there are others working, normally porting whole ux will be bigger than porting individual apps | 14:30 |
| lcuk | you might find a team already working on it | 14:30 |
| timoph | you can find all the needed info to get it running from the wiki | 14:31 |
| TheBootroo | but i thought that OBS was made to produce different kinds of packages automatically, so why doesn't it build .deb packages of meego x86 packages ? | 14:31 |
| Stskeeps | TheBootroo: because there's this thing called packaging? | 14:31 |
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| timoph | it still needs the packaging script and afaik the community obs doesn't do debs atm | 14:32 |
| TheBootroo | lcuk: "porting whole ux will be bigger than porting individual apps" : but we can't port only apps since they need the whole ux to run (i saw many meego only qml classes used in meego-panels E.G.) | 14:32 |
| TheBootroo | Stskeeps: what do you mean ? | 14:32 |
| Stskeeps | TheBootroo: as in manual work to make debian/ dirs is needed | 14:33 |
| user0 | alterego : im here just to piss you off :P | 14:33 |
| TheBootroo | the basis info for .deb are the same than for .rpm | 14:33 |
| TheBootroo | Stskeeps: true ? | 14:33 |
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| Stskeeps | yes, but dependancy names are different and a lot of small details | 14:33 |
| Stskeeps | it isn't 1:1 | 14:33 |
| Stskeeps | user0: please behave then, we're trying to be helpful, so don't be lazy :) | 14:33 |
| TheBootroo | Stskeeps: i didn't know : when i generate .deb package from qt project for my N900 it's wuite straitforward | 14:33 |
| user0 | timoph : i was hoping the rescue Initrd was the solution | 14:34 |
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| TheBootroo | *quite | 14:34 |
| TheBootroo | Stskeeps: qtcreator automatically generates enough information to build a correct .deb package from a single .pro file | 14:35 |
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| Stskeeps | TheBootroo: yes, but that only works for a subset | 14:35 |
| TheBootroo | Stskeeps: i mean, qtcreator from Qt Nokia SDk | 14:35 |
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| TheBootroo | Stskeeps: that's too bad | 14:35 |
| TheBootroo | i really want to use MeeGO UX but i don't have the right hardware | 14:35 |
| * alterego sighs | 14:36 | |
| TheBootroo | so at least if a qt apps running on my ubuntu box they will use existing graphics acceleration( nvidia 9600M GT) | 14:36 |
| * Stskeeps looks around for a beer | 14:36 | |
| * TheBootroo gives Stskeeps a bear :p | 14:36 | |
| * lcuk runs to the bar and grabs a crateful | 14:36 | |
| TheBootroo | grrrr | 14:36 |
| lcuk | TheBootroo, it is understandable, go and find out how far the debian folks have gotten | 14:37 |
| lcuk | you might be asking questions already answered | 14:37 |
| alterego | Teeheehee | 14:37 |
| lcuk | you can stop laughing alterego :P | 14:37 |
| TheBootroo | lcuk: you mean debians guys from a regular debian channel or some special meego/debian channel ? | 14:38 |
| lcuk | where is the package for qtcontacts import :P | 14:38 |
| lcuk | TheBootroo, I don't know where thye hang out | 14:38 |
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| lcuk | but afaik there is a "meego on debian" project of some ilk | 14:38 |
| alterego | In my pub obs, still lacking the script. | 14:38 |
| lcuk | but since I am concentrating on meego on meego have not watched too much | 14:38 |
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| alterego | I'm gonna rename the package so I can add the script to it making it maemo import specific. | 14:39 |
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| lcuk | alterego, http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/DataManagement/ContactsImportScript | 14:39 |
| user0 | wish i had my laptop with me today | 14:39 |
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| user0 | all i have here at work is winxp | 14:39 |
| TheBootroo | but Stskeeps aren't you responsible of meego for N900 ? since that you must know how to build .deb packages from meego OBS ? | 14:39 |
| lcuk | very basic and you were talking about moving the mounting to somewhere else, I am at outstretched end of my knowledge here and hoping you can do the technical stuff :$ | 14:40 |
| gabrbedd | iekku: good morning! | 14:40 |
| TheBootroo | even if the method is hard, i'm developer and linux user i can use CLI, i just want instructions | 14:40 |
| Stskeeps | TheBootroo: yes, and i don't have to do debian packaging in my work. it makes me really happy. | 14:40 |
| user0 | i guess all this will have to wait untill im back at home :( | 14:40 |
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| Stskeeps | :P | 14:40 |
| alterego | lcuk: I'll have it done by the end of the day. | 14:40 |
| user0 | stskeeps : do you recommend this http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Install/NFS#Installing_NFS_server ? | 14:40 |
| lcuk | alterego, wonderful :$ | 14:40 |
| Stskeeps | user0: no, just use a microsd card and save yourself a lot of power | 14:40 |
| Stskeeps | and time | 14:40 |
| user0 | none at hand | 14:41 |
| Stskeeps | then you'll have to wait | 14:41 |
| user0 | but that should work , no ? | 14:41 |
| iekku | gabrbedd, :D | 14:41 |
| Stskeeps | user0: haven't tested it for ages | 14:41 |
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| user0 | the results cant be as bad as using the rescue Initrd :P | 14:42 |
| TheBootroo | Stskeeps: where can i download an updated MeeGoDE for N900 with tablet UX ? if i can't test it on my desktop, maybe i can get some recent image for my n900, | 14:42 |
| Stskeeps | TheBootroo: wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900 | 14:42 |
| lcuk | and http://repository.maemo.org/meego/n900-de/ | 14:43 |
| lcuk | for the images themselves | 14:43 |
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| TheBootroo | Stskeeps: you mean http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/TabletUX i know this page but i dont see the DE image link in it.... | 14:44 |
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| lcuk | th^^ | 14:44 |
| lcuk | daily and weekly testing include n900-de handset and tablet builds | 14:44 |
| TheBootroo | lcuk: each folder i look in for meego recent iamges doesn't contains tablet image and even some times no handset image only some log file or xml one | 14:45 |
| lcuk | http://repository.maemo.org/meego/n900-de/daily/1.2.0.90.4.20110613.2.DE.2011-06-15.1/images/mg-tablet-armv7nhl-n900-ce-testing/ | 14:46 |
| lcuk | curious because I just started downloading that a little bit ago | 14:46 |
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| TheBootroo | lcuk: sry i checked just 4 days ago and the most recent i found was 24 may dated ! | 14:47 |
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| lcuk | well 4 days ago would make it the 11th | 14:48 |
| lcuk | http://repository.maemo.org/meego/n900-de/daily/1.2.0.90.3.20110609.2.DE.2011-06-11.1/images/mg-tablet-armv7nhl-n900-ce-testing/ | 14:48 |
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| lcuk | which surprisingly has an image from... the 11th | 14:48 |
| lcuk | but there were a few days at start of month | 14:49 |
| TheBootroo | lcuk: maybe i didn't looked at the right place | 14:49 |
| lcuk | where images were not made | 14:49 |
| lcuk | yes, likely | 14:49 |
| lcuk | moral of story: there are n900 images for tablet build that you can check | 14:49 |
| TheBootroo | i looked into repos.meego.com | 14:49 |
| lcuk | the n900-community edition is not direct meego project | 14:50 |
| TheBootroo | lcuk: however i really would like test it on my computer, biger and more powerfull | 14:50 |
| lcuk | just hold the n900 closer to your face, it gets much bigger | 14:50 |
| TheBootroo | lcuk: you funny you know | 14:50 |
| lcuk | and as far power, the n900 outperforms many other devices even today :) | 14:50 |
| TheBootroo | ;-) | 14:50 |
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| TheBootroo | lcuk: n900 is powerful for a phone, but terribly lacks RAM overall | 14:51 |
| TheBootroo | and nothing compares to a quad core computer in the phone class | 14:51 |
| lcuk | fair | 14:51 |
| TheBootroo | obviously | 14:51 |
| lcuk | but quad core computer looks silly held to your ear | 14:51 |
| alterego | Yeah, Nokia should have learned from the 770 wrt RAM | 14:52 |
| lcuk | TheBootroo, if I hear anything about the meego on debian/ubuntu I wll endeavour to remember | 14:52 |
| TheBootroo | i dont speak about phone, i really want tablet ux on a regular laptop, that i use fo music, web and photo | 14:52 |
| lcuk | I added your point to my graffiti wall | 14:52 |
| TheBootroo | thx | 14:52 |
| TheBootroo | if you find some complete meego apps compilation guide, let me know, with all dependancies needed and were to find their last version | 14:53 |
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| alterego | TheBootroo: shouldn't be too hard, the dependencies are all there and it's not like it depends on intel graphics hardware like the images. | 14:53 |
| * RST38h yawns | 14:53 | |
| lcuk | i think that is something even the developers on meego ask ;) | 14:53 |
| * RST38h yawns at the bootroo troll. | 14:54 | |
| lcuk | you just have to dive into obs | 14:54 |
| TheBootroo | RST38h: which troll ? | 14:54 |
| lcuk | RST38h, yawning because it is not you this time trolling :P | 14:54 |
| TheBootroo | RST38h: i don't troll, i just want to do something and i can't | 14:54 |
| TheBootroo | so i ask | 14:55 |
| RST38h | Rather than endless argue on what mobile computing is, tell me how to pass arguments into the Android NativeActivity. | 14:55 |
| RST38h | lcuk: easily fixable, as you see :) | 14:55 |
| TheBootroo | RST38h: android is sh*t and saying that is a troll | 14:55 |
| * lcuk grabs more beer | 14:56 | |
| RST38h | Sure, it is shit | 14:56 |
| TheBootroo | i ask because there are many guys more skilled than me, but unhopefully nobody has tried what i ask for, as usual, maybe i'm wanting too compilcated thing all the time | 14:56 |
| RST38h | Sells millions of units though | 14:56 |
| TheBootroo | RST38h: most people on earth are stupid sheep, we all know that | 14:56 |
| lcuk | oi | 14:57 |
| lcuk | do not insult or generalise to most people. | 14:57 |
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| TheBootroo | i tried an Asus Transformer yesterday, great device but Android 3.1 ruins it, meego for tablets would be great, but that's too bad, its a nvidia platform :-( | 14:57 |
| TheBootroo | lcuk: us here are not really 'most people' | 14:58 |
| * RST38h is ok selling to stuid sheep | 14:58 | |
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| RST38h | As long as I get to shave 'em regularly, you know... | 14:58 |
| * TheBootroo thinks selling to sheep is a very profitable business | 14:58 | |
| * TheBootroo don't want to be shaved | 14:59 | |
| RST38h | lcuk: See, how lively it becomes when I have to wait for testing to complete? | 14:59 |
| lcuk | it was lively before you arrived | 14:59 |
| lcuk | :P | 14:59 |
| * TheBootroo lols | 14:59 | |
| lcuk | what are you testing? | 14:59 |
| RST38h | Nah, it was the same newbie fanboy shit, boring | 15:00 |
| RST38h | lcuk: code | 15:00 |
| * TheBootroo hints RST38h to stay polite | 15:00 | |
| TheBootroo | ;-) | 15:00 |
| lcuk | manly code? | 15:00 |
| lcuk | like ardiuno controlled beer dispensing robot control code? | 15:01 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Oh, you can't imagine... =( | 15:01 |
| TheBootroo | lcuk: great | 15:01 |
| TheBootroo | it would be | 15:01 |
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| lcuk | in qml is the text/memo/html box actually a qml component? | 15:02 |
| lcuk | or are they normal qwidgets still? | 15:02 |
| TheBootroo | lcuk: i dont use QMl | 15:02 |
| lcuk | well thankfully I wasn't asking you :P | 15:03 |
| TheBootroo | only QWidget + QCss or QGraphicsItem | 15:03 |
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| TheBootroo | lcuk: i know i know | 15:03 |
| TheBootroo | lcuk: -_- | 15:03 |
| alterego | lcuk: not sure. Though they probably exist in 4.8 | 15:03 |
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| alterego | (for scene graph) | 15:03 |
| lcuk | wondering because I did some playing outside qt with how to make a memobox from scratch | 15:04 |
| lcuk | using only rectangles and containers initially | 15:04 |
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| RST38h | lcuk: Afaik, it HAS to be a component | 15:04 |
| lcuk | RST38h, for what reason? | 15:05 |
| lcuk | scalability? | 15:05 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Whether it is a proper one or a qwidget container is a different thing | 15:05 |
| alterego | Yeah, I'm pretty sure the Text component is a component and editors inherit from it. | 15:05 |
| RST38h | lcuk: semantics? | 15:05 |
| lcuk | RST38h, you mean a native coded component rather than a pure qml element | 15:05 |
| RST38h | lcuk: the first | 15:05 |
| lcuk | yeah | 15:05 |
| lcuk | it was like Microsoft still using native elements in .net | 15:06 |
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| lcuk | RST38h, is that just for brevity or do you think it has been attempted? | 15:08 |
| RST38h | lcuk: I do not really know | 15:09 |
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| RST38h | Let me see if I can find the source code | 15:09 |
| lcuk | RST38h, no need | 15:09 |
| lcuk | was just idle banter | 15:09 |
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| alterego | lcuk: seems to still use QTextDocument | 15:12 |
| lcuk | hmmh | 15:13 |
| RST38h | Would be unusual if it didn't... | 15:13 |
| lcuk | I was doing some tinkering and was hoping for it to be native qml | 15:13 |
| TheBootroo | lcuk: AFAIK QML are coded using C++/Qt4 classes | 15:13 |
| lcuk | well RST38h http://liqbase.net/liq.20110613_221639.codebox.scr.png http://liqbase.net/liq.20110614_024720.codebox2.scr.png | 15:13 |
| TheBootroo | only display and use is done via QML | 15:13 |
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| alterego | TheBootroo: nope :P | 15:14 |
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| TheBootroo | QML needs a Qt/C++ launcher/interpreter | 15:14 |
| alterego | TheBootroo: sorry, misinterpreted classes as QWidgets | 15:14 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Lemme guess, you continue reqwriting the complete UX stack in liqbase? =) | 15:14 |
| TheBootroo | alterego: why not ? i don't know Javascript that could launch itself, it needs a engine | 15:15 |
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| lcuk | what would happen if you could make a .qml file +x executable and get linux itself to do the bootstraping | 15:15 |
| TheBootroo | so QtCore classes and QGraphics one too are used by QML | 15:15 |
| alterego | Yes, QML is written in Qt/C++, but we're talking about whether it uses QWidgets for some display components, which it shouldn't | 15:15 |
| lcuk | RST38h, was testing ideas and was rather hoping for a qml variant | 15:15 |
| alterego | lcuk: you can do that. | 15:15 |
| alterego | but qmlviewer is not recommended, which would be how you bootstrap it. | 15:16 |
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| gabrbedd | ali1234: zypper bug -- could not reproduce. | 15:17 |
| gabrbedd | ali1234: rpmbuild ~/rpmbuild/SPECS/kernel.spec -- I didn't get your exact results, but I got something similar. | 15:17 |
| alterego | lcuk: I might be wrong, seems it uses QPainter, might use text document for constants and layout info/engine. | 15:17 |
| gabrbedd | ali1234: I'll go back and follow your steps to the "t" and comment on the bug report. | 15:18 |
| lcuk | RST38h, I have certain elements inside qt | 15:18 |
| lcuk | just when I come across a roadblock in knowledge of qt I dive back into my liqbase code garden and have a go there | 15:18 |
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| gabrbedd | lcuk: alterego: Has anyone tried to put a shebang line in a QML file? | 16:07 |
| alterego | gabrbedd: no, but it'll fail, because # isn't a comment | 16:07 |
| alterego | You could make one like: //!/usr/bin/qmlviewer | 16:08 |
| alterego | But it's probably best to use the extension | 16:08 |
| thiago | binfmt_misc? | 16:08 |
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| thiago | the program that loads the qml file (the one listed in the shebang line) could strip out the first line | 16:09 |
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| alterego | sure, still think binfmt is better .. | 16:10 |
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| * gabrbedd reads about binfmt | 16:20 | |
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| gabrbedd | hm. I didn't know that existed. | 16:23 |
| alterego | :) | 16:27 |
| alterego | It's what makes qemu work in chroots | 16:27 |
| alterego | And other magic | 16:27 |
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| alterego | scratchbox uses it, obs uses it, etc. | 16:27 |
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| lcuk | gabrbedd, the syntax in c/c++ files does not allow it? | 16:38 |
| lcuk | though on similar, I did find out last night | 16:38 |
| lcuk | that http://url url syntax *IS* valid within c code | 16:39 |
| lcuk | after I mistakenly pasted a link within some source | 16:39 |
| gabrbedd | lcuk: Are we talking C/C++ or javascript? | 16:40 |
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| lcuk | gabrbedd, my observation was c | 16:40 |
| lcuk | i had middle clicked a youtube link into middle of some source | 16:41 |
| lcuk | and only noticed when I was checking git diffs | 16:41 |
| lcuk | te code compiled and built happily | 16:41 |
| lcuk | because http: is a goto jump point thingy | 16:41 |
| lcuk | and //youtube.com/ is a comment | 16:41 |
| gabrbedd | lcuk: AFAIK, they're right... #! is not a comment... so it would need special //! support from bash. | 16:41 |
| gabrbedd | Haha... That's true. :-) | 16:41 |
| lcuk | which is tricky | 16:41 |
| lcuk | I tried similar within the meego wiki the other day | 16:42 |
| gabrbedd | You should keep that handy for an the IOCCC | 16:42 |
| gabrbedd | Internation Obfuscated C Code Contest | 16:42 |
| gabrbedd | http://www.ioccc.org | 16:42 |
| lcuk | heh | 16:43 |
| lcuk | gabrbedd, minor curiosity rather than odd c | 16:43 |
| lcuk | my code itself is obfuscated qml ;) | 16:43 |
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| fiferboy | Yay, but 18557 is fixed in the latest tablet image | 17:00 |
| fiferboy | bug 18557, rather | 17:00 |
| MeeGoBot | Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=18557 cri, High, ---, chengwei.yang, RELE FIXED, Installation freezes during live image copy | 17:00 |
| lcuk | nice fiferboy | 17:01 |
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| fiferboy | UI revamp seems to be in progress | 17:02 |
| fiferboy | Looks nice, but functionality way down | 17:03 |
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| berndhs | ah, who needs functionality when you have shine | 17:04 |
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| fiferboy | berndhs: True, I'll just enjoy the warm glow of the updated theme :) | 17:06 |
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| lcuk | fiferboy, which image are you using (url link for those >> ) | 17:07 |
| * lcuk waiting for dd | 17:08 | |
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| fiferboy | lcuk: http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/snapshots/testing/1.2.0.90/latest/images/meego-tablet-ia32-pinetrail/ | 17:09 |
| fiferboy | I just bookmarked the "latest" folder and check for new versions | 17:09 |
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| lcuk | achipa, i have seen the demos of qml based game: samegame | 17:27 |
| lcuk | 10*16 grid of particles | 17:28 |
| lcuk | so not taking by any means | 17:28 |
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| lcuk | but something people would routinely play on the bus to/from work for instance | 17:28 |
| lcuk | i wonder how to produce a longevity graph | 17:28 |
| lcuk | to see how this could be optimised so people can play longer | 17:29 |
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| lcuk | fancy pants animations are one thing, but keeping folks entertained for whole journey is another | 17:29 |
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| achipa | lcuk: oookay... ? | 17:33 |
| alterego | Didn't even see you leave :P | 17:33 |
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| lcuk | achipa, just pondering and voicing really | 17:33 |
| lcuk | samegame is something that can be tested because it is in every os | 17:34 |
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| fiferboy | Can any point me to an article or documentation on how I can make my Qt program look "native" on handset, netbook, tablet, etc | 18:06 |
| fiferboy | My plain Qt program looks okay on desktop and netbook, but handset and tablet UX do not fit in with the theme | 18:07 |
| berndhs | fiferboy: its not just the theme, its the whole UX | 18:07 |
| TSCHAKeee | this is the big reason that Qt says to go Qt Quick now | 18:08 |
| TSCHAKeee | so that QML can be made for different UX. | 18:08 |
| berndhs | fiferboy: the idea is that you "only" replace the QML part | 18:08 |
| alterego | My Qt app looks awesome under handset | 18:08 |
| alterego | But it renders itself, doesn't use any widgets, all custom | 18:08 |
| fiferboy | So first off that would mean porting my UI to QML away from QWidgets? | 18:08 |
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| TSCHAKeee | yup | 18:08 |
| alterego | So it looks the same on anything, with the exception of fonts. | 18:09 |
| fiferboy | And then there would be (potential) changes to the QML based on the UX | 18:09 |
| berndhs | right, then you do your own branding, and forget the theme :) | 18:09 |
| fiferboy | I guess this is the whole Qt Components vs MeeGo Components | 18:09 |
| alterego | That's what I do for apps where it makes sense. | 18:09 |
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| alterego | If you're writing an app that say, extends the functionality of the system and is meant as an integration or augmentation, theming is the way to go. But self contained apps, games, etc. Should have their own custom Ux imo | 18:10 |
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| berndhs | right, it there is more commonality in the app across verticals, it makes more sense to app-brand it | 18:11 |
| fiferboy | alterego: I would prefer to avoid a custom UX (mostly due to my design ineptitude) | 18:11 |
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| alterego | fiferboy: :) | 18:11 |
| fiferboy | But for all the "official" meego UX platforms I could use MeeGo UX Components? | 18:11 |
| alterego | fiferboy: well, I suppose it does depend on your artistic talents and or whether you have UX designers. | 18:12 |
| alterego | fiferboy: in 1.3 meego ux components should be everywhere. | 18:12 |
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| fiferboy | alterego: But not for QWidget-derived UI? | 18:13 |
| gabrbedd | fiferboy: if the components that you need are in the MeeGo Compliance spec... then you'll need to provide your own... e.g. a private copy of the Qt labs desktop components. | 18:13 |
| alterego | fiferboy: qwidget is on it's way to deprecation. | 18:13 |
| fiferboy | Gah, I guess it is time to finally learn QML :) | 18:14 |
| alterego | gabrbedd: not in I'm guessing? | 18:14 |
| TSCHAKeee | it will be gone sometime after Qt 5 | 18:14 |
| berndhs | QML is not hard, just frustrating at times :) | 18:14 |
| alterego | We really need more community involvement wrt meego ux components, real use cases from real app developers. | 18:14 |
| fiferboy | I have made a couple of half-hearted attempts at porting simple GUI apps to QML | 18:14 |
| berndhs | I tried to build qt5 yesterday, still has all kinds of widgets | 18:14 |
| TSCHAKeee | and programmers really need to learn UI design | 18:15 |
| alterego | berndhs: sure, but they're "deprecated" ;) | 18:15 |
| TSCHAKeee | if I have to bitch slap it into each and every one of them | 18:15 |
| gabrbedd | alterego: I'm sure some standard components lib will be part of Qt /eventually/ | 18:15 |
| * CosmoHill did a course in UI design | 18:15 | |
| CosmoHill | didn't do that well | 18:15 |
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| alterego | gabrbedd: definitely, qt-components is about that. | 18:15 |
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| TSCHAKeee | CosmoHill: don't make any apps users will use. | 18:15 |
| TSCHAKeee | ;) | 18:15 |
| fiferboy | TSCHAKeee: I actually have a book called "Universal Principles of Desgin" sitting beside me right now | 18:15 |
| gabrbedd | alterego: And I wouldn't be surprised if meego ux comp's were part of 1.3 Core. | 18:15 |
| CosmoHill | if I keep up my design they won't use them | 18:16 |
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| berndhs | qwidgets are still ok for apps with just 1 big button | 18:16 |
| TSCHAKeee | CosmoHill: if all else fails. study and copy. | 18:16 |
| TSCHAKeee | steal. | 18:16 |
| CosmoHill | fork and fix | 18:17 |
| TSCHAKeee | please for the love of god | 18:17 |
| berndhs | yes then file a patent on what you copied | 18:17 |
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| TSCHAKeee | programmers need to learn to make UIs that look okay. | 18:17 |
| fiferboy | TSCHAKeee: Or programmers need to work with a designer to make their UIs look okay | 18:17 |
| TSCHAKeee | either or | 18:18 |
| TSCHAKeee | but most don't have that option. | 18:18 |
| * TSCHAKeee is both programmer and designer in one. | 18:18 | |
| berndhs | actually programmers need to learn to make UIs that look ok, artists need to learn to make UIs that function | 18:18 |
| CosmoHill | last website I got paid to do I did the programming and made is so the designer could just add his CSS sheet | 18:18 |
| CosmoHill | TSCHAKeee: either you're good or you're a rather large person | 18:19 |
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| berndhs | hey, large persons can be competent too | 18:19 |
| TSCHAKeee | CosmoHill: I grew up in a family of both artists and engineers. | 18:19 |
| CosmoHill | tbh I was expecting you to say midgets for some reason | 18:19 |
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| * CosmoHill needs to stop watching kids tv | 18:24 | |
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| fiferboy | Are meego ux components available in 1.2? Or 1.2.0.90? | 18:29 |
| alterego | They're in N900 CE | 18:29 |
| Stskeeps | 1.2, 1.2.0.90 | 18:30 |
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| gabrbedd | fiferboy: also for Tablet UX, they're in there. I don't think they're in Netbook. | 18:32 |
| fiferboy | Cool, Tablet UX and N900 CE will be mostly what I am testing on | 18:32 |
| npm | most designers take properly working programs and turn them into some kind of altar to their ego, rather than being concerned about the user actually getting stuff done... | 18:33 |
| fiferboy | The QWidget version is themed properly on Netbook | 18:33 |
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| alterego | npm: was that a remark on my skillz :P | 18:33 |
| npm | or they design the application into failure from the get-go | 18:33 |
| npm | well maybe you're not one of the designers i've worked with | 18:34 |
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| npm | e.g. turning a UI with proper relative layouts, all based on calculating sizes of components w/ resolution independence... all gone and replaced with pixel sizes | 18:35 |
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| npm | i want a widget set that puts the designer inside the widgets, and makes them do the right thing. | 18:35 |
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| npm | also, if there's a particular look to a given handset, then i don't want "design" i want it to look like all the other apps on that handset | 18:36 |
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| TSCHAKeee | npm: you only see this from your perspective | 18:36 |
| TSCHAKeee | this is the problem | 18:36 |
| TSCHAKeee | programmers lack any and all aesthetic sense | 18:36 |
| npm | actually, the problem is designers see from their perspective too | 18:36 |
| TSCHAKeee | and lack the ability to even remotely understand it | 18:37 |
| TSCHAKeee | one pixel | 18:37 |
| TSCHAKeee | does | 18:37 |
| TSCHAKeee | make | 18:37 |
| TSCHAKeee | a difference | 18:37 |
| npm | and there really shouldn't be designers or programmers. if you're doing an app, you should be both | 18:37 |
| npm | no, one millimeter makes a difference. | 18:37 |
| npm | one pixel can be ten on a different platform | 18:38 |
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| TSCHAKeee | indeed. | 18:38 |
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| lcuk | npm, symbiosis. | 18:39 |
| npm | i was just as happy with square buttons too..., esp ones that you could clearly tell when they were clicked | 18:39 |
| lcuk | designer and developer working harmoniously as a team | 18:39 |
| npm | but then a "designer" gets through with it, and it becomes "art" and not very functional as a button | 18:39 |
| lcuk | but the developer should know the limits available | 18:39 |
| lcuk | as should the designer - designing to capabilities is something many miss | 18:40 |
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| lcuk | npm buttons are more tricky actually | 18:40 |
| maligor | I vote for one pixel checkered buttons, with accurate click tracking | 18:40 |
| lcuk | now with touch ui, your finger itself covers the button | 18:40 |
| lcuk | more important than that though is icons vs names | 18:40 |
| npm | and i just love watching my dad or son pecking away at their iphones... if that's the pinnacle of design... fail... | 18:40 |
| lcuk | wall of icons is confusing | 18:41 |
| lcuk | my real wall has real things on it | 18:41 |
| maligor | the pinnacle of design is when you have a apple chip embedded in your brain | 18:41 |
| lcuk | using an iphone is like using an advent calendar | 18:41 |
| lcuk | (little door you have to open per day) | 18:41 |
| npm | http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43126515/ns/business-retail/t/dont-call-them-fanboys-now-call-them-acolytes/ | 18:42 |
| npm | mri's of apple fanboys seeing apple icon similar response as devoutly religious w/ crucifix | 18:42 |
| npm | thus maligor's comment is true | 18:42 |
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| npm | and so is lcuk's advent calendar | 18:43 |
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| npm | :-) | 18:43 |
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| lcuk | npm | 18:43 |
| lcuk | you can see the contents like a real calendar | 18:43 |
| maligor | I guess Apple is the real american religion | 18:43 |
| lcuk | you do not need to open each day to know what it contains :) | 18:44 |
| npm | beats talking salamanders | 18:44 |
| maligor | consumerism combined with religious overtones | 18:44 |
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| lcuk | you might have to get closer to read all of it, but it is exactly as written | 18:44 |
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| npm | lcuk: isn't that basically w7's boxes idea? | 18:47 |
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| mikhas | having issues instaling from the latest tablet ux images ... | 18:48 |
| lcuk | npm, sigh | 18:48 |
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| lcuk | windows boxes idea is over 2 years later than mine | 18:48 |
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| mikhas | it just hangs with a systemd-fsck (well. that's the last line at least) | 18:49 |
| npm | well apple's finally paying up for ideas they've stolen from nokia... | 18:49 |
| mikhas | anyone else? | 18:49 |
| npm | so you never know what the future can bring lcuk | 18:49 |
| lcuk | npm, I have to wonder whether employers I have had over the time will be patenting ideas in my code done at nighttimes | 18:49 |
| mikhas | (been using meego-tablet-ia32-pinetrail-1.2.80.6.0.20110614.7.img) | 18:49 |
| ali1234 | has anyone been watching the QML app reviews by all about symbian? | 18:50 |
| npm | (in this case, i think MS will just acquire their way out of it :-/ ) | 18:50 |
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| lcuk | if they do, good thing if it is fair offer | 18:50 |
| ali1234 | http://www.youtube.com/rafeaas | 18:50 |
| npm | i bet they're slapping themselves in the head right now about the nokia apple patent deal right now | 18:50 |
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| ali1234 | those apps are OK but they all suffer from the same problem: | 18:51 |
| ali1234 | they all look completely different and the graphical quality is extremely variable | 18:51 |
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| khertan | Hello | 18:52 |
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| lcuk | npm, I did see that Nokia offers patening help | 18:53 |
| lcuk | but since my work takes a number of years and different employers is tricky | 18:53 |
| lcuk | and melts my head completely to consider | 18:53 |
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| npm | Gnu or LF ought to have a open-source patenting arm funded by going after closed source that steals their ideas | 18:53 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, and where is GNOME taking their primary inspiration from? .. | 18:54 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 18:54 |
| lcuk | i see mostly cloning of other apps in open source | 18:54 |
| npm | and they'd then force the losers to open source their closed source software in defeat | 18:54 |
| lcuk | it is rare to see such innovation that I normally play with | 18:54 |
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| Jaffa | ali1234: Qt Components should help in the Symbian case | 18:55 |
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| ali1234 | that's what i keep hearing | 18:56 |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, I could say that same about the current wayland screenshots from you | 18:56 |
| lcuk | ;) | 18:56 |
| Stskeeps | simpsons did it | 18:56 |
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| npm | i think it's the other way around... closed source clones ideas from the research community and makes them "production".. often the work of the research community is and was open even before open source | 18:57 |
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| npm | Xerox PARC's Alto -> Macintosh is good example | 18:57 |
| npm | i used an Alto, it was much better :-) | 18:57 |
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| maligor | I think I'll patent the idea of drawing an image by copying pixels from one buffer into another | 18:58 |
| ali1234 | personally i'm not interested in innovation if it comes at the cost of my ability to fix problems that i encounter when the vendor refuses to help | 18:58 |
| npm | for example, 10-20 years ago, SigCHI was all about camera tracking UI's... now they're in games from MS | 18:59 |
| timoph | where have I heard that before | 18:59 |
| timoph | ah. RMS :) | 18:59 |
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| maligor | 10-20 years ago the hardware required for camera tracking was really expensive | 19:00 |
| maligor | probably used color coded gloves or something | 19:01 |
| npm | yep. but the ideas were all openly published -- http://www.billbuxton.com/InputSources.html | 19:01 |
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| npm | then again perhaps that's cuz microsoft hired him :-) | 19:03 |
| ali1234 | all patents are openly published | 19:03 |
| ali1234 | you do know that the whole mocap field is one of the most heavily patented areas of CS right? | 19:03 |
| npm | i was talking about using the patent system for GNU purposes in the same way that the copyright system has been used. | 19:03 |
| mikhas | seeems that the tablet UX live image, when you select install-only, doesn't mount the root system properly | 19:03 |
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| npm | if the patent holder insisted on open source, they could force a settlement where the patent violation is treated like a GPL violation.... | 19:05 |
| fiferboy | mikhas: the 1.2.0.90 branch had that problem until the build from 20110614 | 19:05 |
| ali1234 | yeah the only small problem with that is that FOSS projects don't hold any patents | 19:05 |
| fiferboy | mikhas: Does it sound the same as bug 18557? | 19:05 |
| MeeGoBot | Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=18557 cri, High, ---, chengwei.yang, RELE FIXED, Installation freezes during live image copy | 19:05 |
| gabrbedd | npm: Problem is that patents typically cost US $5k minimum... and that only covers the US. In contrast, getting a copyright is free. | 19:06 |
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| ali1234 | because everything they write was patented by researchers 20 years before | 19:06 |
| npm | yep, which is why the foundation would need to bootstrap itself first by forcing some payment from violators | 19:06 |
| npm | until it had a large enough patent portfolio to trade with the big boys | 19:06 |
| gabrbedd | npm: So... people plunk down $10k on a software patent so that we can.... stick it to the man? | 19:07 |
| ali1234 | that makes no sense | 19:07 |
| gabrbedd | Not a very good ROI. | 19:07 |
| khertan | Hum ... i can't update meego or install app on a fresh netbook install ! I think i ve found the bug ! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqD9UaDpA_0 | 19:07 |
| npm | not stick it to the man. play on the same playing field | 19:07 |
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| mikhas | fiferboy, no different | 19:11 |
| mikhas | I dont even get to see any UI | 19:11 |
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| fiferboy | mikhas: I don't have any experience installing the 1.2.80 branch | 19:13 |
| lcuk | npm, then get them talking with my employers over the period I wrote liqbase because i have a whole suite of innovations :) | 19:13 |
| * lcuk can write c code but cannot write patent code | 19:13 | |
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| gabrbedd | lcuk: In the US, you have to apply for a patent within 1 year of your first public disclosure of the invention. | 19:14 |
| lcuk | gabrbedd, so I have until February next year then | 19:14 |
| gabrbedd | lcuk: And some countries don't even allow that. | 19:15 |
| lcuk | for something I wrote years ago but did not make use of | 19:15 |
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| * lcuk uploaded sketchfonts whilst at fosdem | 19:18 | |
| mikhas | fiferboy, tablet UX images are just plain broken | 19:19 |
| npm | http://www.patentgenius.com/patent/7739604.html "Method and apparatus for managing windows" from Apple. references yours truly | 19:19 |
| mikhas | you dont even get a VKB | 19:20 |
| mikhas | uxlauncher doesnt launch for install-only | 19:20 |
| mikhas | windows key is not working | 19:20 |
| npm | maybe that's why the tablet UX doesn't have any managed windows. apple patented it :-) | 19:20 |
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| npm | and then there's "Intelligent Scrolling" http://www.patentgenius.com/patent/7456850.html | 19:21 |
| npm | and another on drag and drop. pretty lame. | 19:21 |
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| Bostik | we're seeing the fourth wave of recurring patent ideas here | 19:22 |
| Bostik | originally it was "do X" | 19:22 |
| Bostik | then it was "automate X" | 19:22 |
| SpeedEvil | 'automate x in a mobile' | 19:23 |
| Bostik | in the 80's it became "do X with a computer" | 19:23 |
| lcuk | npm, find me a patent for sending and recieving messages and presenting as handwritten notes. ie full circle back to original telegrams. | 19:23 |
| Bostik | and now we're seeing "..on a mobile device" | 19:23 |
| lcuk | which is what sketchfonts if fully implemented would do. | 19:23 |
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| npm | lcuk: the fax machine ? :-) | 19:23 |
| lcuk | I had a lovely chat with one of the telecomms engineers at the museum of science and industry | 19:23 |
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| lcuk | npm go for it | 19:24 |
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| fiferboy | mikhas: Recent Tablet UX in 1.2.0.90 look to be going through a transition too | 19:25 |
| npm | fiferboy mikhas -- see end of http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-community/2011-June/004169.html for suggestions on making tablet UX better | 19:25 |
| fiferboy | VKB doesn't input, setting dialog layout completely broken, missing images for lockscreen and panel | 19:25 |
| npm | aka "zypper in http://download.meego.com/live/Trunk:/Testing/standard/i586/meegotouch-inputmethodbridges-0.2.3-1.4.i586.rpm" and reboot | 19:25 |
| mikhas | npm, *tablet* requires GTK+ input context? | 19:26 |
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| mikhas | that was supposed for netbooks only | 19:26 |
| npm | apparently... seems to give me input in progs i need input in... qt ones seem to have it | 19:27 |
| Stskeeps | auke: what happens to a process's ioprio when x-moblin-priority isn't set? | 19:27 |
| lcuk | npm, the description by aniello was hand typing. typing using your own handwriting :) | 19:27 |
| pebcak | tablet ux images work fine for me | 19:27 |
| mikhas | npm, well then ... thanks for our architect who rejected this very package to be part of MeeGo 1.2 | 19:27 |
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| npm | sounds like a bug report should be filed | 19:28 |
| mikhas | was | 19:28 |
| mikhas | https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14374 | 19:28 |
| MeeGoBot | Bug 14374 nor, Medium, ---, x2rich, RELE FIXED, Virtual keyboard does not work in Gtk+ based applications | 19:29 |
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| npm | i just work around for now, and hope for the future. not sure why that's sched'd for 1.3 when it ought to be in a 1.2 update | 19:30 |
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| mikhas | fiferboy, do you know a last good tablet UX image then? | 19:30 |
| mikhas | npm, dont ask such difficult questions ;-) | 19:30 |
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| npm | http://nielsmayer.com/meego/tab/meegotab-screenshots.html shows that the vkb in gnome is not w/o it's issues | 19:31 |
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| npm | but at least i can run roxterm and have a vkb to kill processes, even if it's "blind" because you end up typing behind the vjb | 19:31 |
| npm | vkb | 19:31 |
| lcuk | is there a c to patent converter? | 19:32 |
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| alterego | Heh | 19:34 |
| * CosmoHill grumbles cos his program ignored the CFLAGS and is displaying errors | 19:36 | |
| CosmoHill | s/errors/warnings/ | 19:36 |
| mikhas | Stskeeps, why is there no http://wiki.meego.com/Release_Engineering/Plans/1.3 ? | 19:37 |
| fiferboy | mikhas: 20110529 for 1.2.0.90 | 19:37 |
| mikhas | like we had for 1.2 | 19:37 |
| berndhs | lcuk: file a FEA request in bugzilla | 19:37 |
| mikhas | fiferboy, thanks | 19:37 |
| lcuk | berndhs, lol | 19:37 |
| lcuk | I would rather just get on and make lots of products but it seems nobody know how to become a vendor | 19:37 |
| berndhs | it would be a useful, income-generating feature | 19:38 |
| * lcuk would try and direct folks and be a vendor | 19:38 | |
| Stskeeps | mikhas: i'm not in RE, ask meego-releases@ | 19:38 |
| lcuk | I just want to be able to buy real wall calendar to install in my mums house | 19:38 |
| lcuk | she would be even more proud of me when I accomplish that :) | 19:38 |
| mikhas | oh, I was under the impression you were | 19:38 |
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| mikhas | and no, I am subscribed to enough ML's already ... | 19:39 |
| berndhs | my mom was plenty prpoud of me, doesn't do anything for steady income :) | 19:39 |
| mikhas | why do I always need to subscribe to a ML in MeeGo, even if I only want to ask a single question, sigh | 19:39 |
| berndhs | mikhas: another FEA, generate a new ML for every new question | 19:40 |
| mikhas | berndhs, oh you ... | 19:40 |
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| lcuk | berndhs, hence the vendor part - putting heavy work into trying to ensure that meego can be used for such purposes | 19:41 |
| lcuk | then if I get that organised can sell in bulk | 19:41 |
| lcuk | and make plenty of money :) | 19:41 |
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| berndhs | shipping is where it's at, not production | 19:42 |
| lcuk | very far off topic and it is tea time anyway, bbl | 19:42 |
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| fiferboy | Is there any way to work around the problems installing MeeGo SDK on 11.04? | 20:13 |
| andre__ | what is 11.04? is that an Ubuntu number? | 20:14 |
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| fiferboy | andre__: Yes, sorry. Ubuntu 11.04 | 20:15 |
| lcuk | fiferboy, a better thing would be to say what errors it has? | 20:15 |
| andre__ | so what are the problems? is there a bug report? | 20:15 |
| fiferboy | Ah, I see there is a bug report. Bug 16884 | 20:16 |
| MeeGoBot | Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16884 nor, High, ---, max.a.yu, NEW, installer does not work on Ubuntu 11.04 | 20:16 |
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| fiferboy | Add support middle of July :| | 20:16 |
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| fiferboy | Looks like it is repository issues | 20:18 |
| lcuk | evening jukkaeklund \o | 20:20 |
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| lcuk | fiferboy, you could try installing a reasonable OS to do sdk work | 20:20 |
| lcuk | like meego :) | 20:20 |
| jukkaeklund | lcuk, hi there | 20:21 |
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| fiferboy | lcuk: MeeGo isn't listed as a supported OS for the SDK :) | 20:21 |
| lcuk | :O RLY? | 20:24 |
| fiferboy | lcuk: I guess because it isn't listed doesn't mean it won't work | 20:25 |
| lcuk | I know the qa guys run the test cases there | 20:25 |
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| lcuk | but meego netbook is usually smallish screen - unless I plug it into my monitor | 20:26 |
| lcuk | the ideapad runs at 1920*1080 or whatever there | 20:26 |
| fiferboy | I was considering installing it on the Netbook UX, I don't see why it wouldn't work | 20:27 |
| lcuk | it would make it a sensible thing then | 20:27 |
| lcuk | using meego to build more meego | 20:27 |
| dneary | Anyone know if there's a general announce list for people announcing releases of Qt software? | 20:27 |
| dneary | Something Trolltech uses to keep track of software & app authors can use to get the word out? | 20:28 |
| dneary | 'twould be nice | 20:28 |
| alterego | dneary: ml maybe? | 20:28 |
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| alterego | And their blog I'd imagine | 20:28 |
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| alterego | Oh qt apps | 20:28 |
| alterego | There is the qt apps site. | 20:28 |
| alterego | Don't think it's too official. | 20:29 |
| fiferboy | Hmm, installing the older version of the SDK with a work around seems to be uninstalling most of my Ubuntu desktop... | 20:29 |
| dneary | alterego, I found a forum on qtcenter | 20:29 |
| lcuk | dneary, any decent apps we can put onto the n900-de ? | 20:29 |
| lcuk | or are most apps now aiming for bigger heavy hardware? | 20:30 |
| * alterego still needs a simple idea for a "world changing" app for this weekends hactivate | 20:30 | |
| alterego | I hope they give out goodie bags, | 20:31 |
| * alterego really wants a qt enabled N8 | 20:31 | |
| dneary | lcuk, Seems to be mostly a support forum rather than app announcements | 20:31 |
| dneary | http://www.qtcentre.org/forums/16-Qt-based-Software | 20:31 |
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| lcuk | dneary, according to my (very random) research, the best qt app is qonsole or whatever the console it | 20:32 |
| dneary | lcuk, Do you have examples of community developed apps in MeeGo core? | 20:33 |
| dneary | That would be really good | 20:33 |
| dneary | I know people talk about Peregrine | 20:33 |
| dneary | And the dialer | 20:33 |
| dneary | But isn't it Shane Bryan that's doing the dialler? | 20:33 |
| lcuk | http://wiki.meego.com/Build_Infrastructure/Community_Builder/ITP | 20:33 |
| lcuk | there is the meego ITP | 20:33 |
| lcuk | which lists some/all the apps put forwards | 20:33 |
| lcuk | one of the better qt apps in terms of delivering o nthe qt promise is Venemo's Puzzle-master | 20:34 |
| lcuk | which is now available on the 23842387423265234 operating systems qt supports | 20:34 |
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| Jaffa | dneary: Shane Bryan is managing the dialler, but the current QML version is alterego | 20:35 |
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| lcuk | Jaffa, qml dialer is n900-ce at this time, it is not in core as far as I know | 20:36 |
| Stskeeps | when transformed to meego-ux-components, maybe | 20:36 |
| andre__ | garrr.... Bugzilla, where you can click and do something that you don't understand, like mass-moving some reports to the Security product for no reason whatsoever, just to make those reports inaccessible. | 20:36 |
| * lcuk may be wrong | 20:36 | |
| * andre__ needs tranquilizers | 20:36 | |
| Stskeeps | andre__: why did i just get a flashback of you running in a jungle being hunted by people with tranquilizer guns? | 20:37 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 20:37 |
| dneary | Jaffa, OK | 20:37 |
| dneary | IC | 20:37 |
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| andre__ | Stskeeps: which one of our LSD trips was that one again? | 20:38 |
| Stskeeps | andre__: good question :P | 20:38 |
| lcuk | ahhh | 20:38 |
| lcuk | MeeGo SF 2011 was not san fran | 20:38 |
| lcuk | it was MeeGo Safari 2011! | 20:38 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: you know, that would explain the keynote a lot beter.. | 20:38 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: QML branch of dialler was merged to trunk just before the conference, IIRC | 20:39 |
| * lcuk will try and deliver a short talk this weekend | 20:39 | |
| lcuk | Jaffa, ask alterego he will know | 20:39 |
| lcuk | we do not have to IIRC ;) | 20:39 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: I meant the timing is IIRC. I quite clearly remember the announcement about it becoming the main MeeGo dialler :-p | 20:40 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: http://www.mail-archive.com/meego-dev@meego.com/msg09722.html | 20:40 |
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| lcuk | Jaffa, merged but still remaining as MTF for now | 20:42 |
| lcuk | the QML dialer does not yet count for all required feature tests | 20:43 |
| lcuk | so people with those images based on master will not see qml | 20:43 |
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| Jaffa | lcuk: ? The branch has been merged to the trunk. | 20:46 |
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| lcuk | Jaffa, read the proceeding email from that 2 mail thread ;) | 20:47 |
| lcuk | 2. The UI is now a runtime (and compile time) selectible option: | 20:48 |
| lcuk | QML UI: | 20:48 |
| lcuk | $ /usr/bin/dialer -ux meego-ux-components | 20:48 |
| lcuk | MTF UI: | 20:48 |
| lcuk | $ /usr/bin/dialer -ux meegotouch | 20:48 |
| lcuk | The default will remain "meegotouch" (MTF) for now, until we draw | 20:48 |
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| lcuk | closer to Feature equivalence | 20:48 |
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| MohammadAG | Jaffa, lcuk the QML dialer seems default for me | 20:48 |
| lcuk | note the sentence at the foot | 20:48 |
| lcuk | but of course I might be wrong | 20:48 |
| * lcuk wonders how you can tell if something is qml or not by looking | 20:50 | |
| jukkaeklund | QML dialer UI is the master in meego dialer, yes | 20:50 |
| jukkaeklund | has been for s few weeks | 20:51 |
| lcuk | jukkaeklund, on the n900-de or trunk for meego images? | 20:51 |
| jukkaeklund | a few | 20:51 |
| jukkaeklund | lcuk, master as in meego gitorious | 20:51 |
| jukkaeklund | so trunk | 20:51 |
| lcuk | jukkaeklund, that email from sabotage was only a few weeks ago saying that, yes qml dialer is there, but that the MTFone was being used still? | 20:52 |
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| sabotage | lcuk: the "MTF" UI is still the default in git master branch | 20:54 |
| jukkaeklund | ah ok | 20:54 |
| jukkaeklund | sorry | 20:54 |
| sabotage | but will likely be changing that this week | 20:54 |
| sabotage | jukkaeklund and lcuk: you are both correct | 20:54 |
| sabotage | the current master has *both* QML and MTF ui versions | 20:55 |
| sabotage | but it's CLI selectable | 20:55 |
| jukkaeklund | even better :) | 20:55 |
| sabotage | today, the default (no CLI options given) is to use MTF ui | 20:56 |
| sabotage | later (this week) the default will be QML | 20:56 |
| * lcuk slides beers all round since we were all on the right track | 20:56 | |
| sabotage | then I will start gutting the MTF bits | 20:56 |
| sabotage | but it's a bit complicated due to also trying to move to libofono-qt at the same time | 20:57 |
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| lcuk | 2 | 21:02 |
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| timoph | what's the last tablet image that actually installs? | 21:07 |
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| timoph | with recent images the installer never finishes it's thing | 21:09 |
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| alterego | But note in my DE deliverables, I compile time default QML UX | 21:16 |
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| alterego | MTF is then selectable via command line or gconf. | 21:16 |
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| alterego | But trunk dialer defaults to MTF, my CE package from trunk defaults to QML | 21:16 |
| npm | timoph -- maybe it's fixed in latest? http://mirrors1.kernel.org/meego/builds/1.2.0.90/1.2.0.90.4.20110614.1/builddata/reports/repodiff-1.2.0.90.3.20110607.2-1.2.0.90.4.20110614.1.html | 21:16 |
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| npm | i'm updating now... | 21:17 |
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| npm | but not by "image install" which is kinda lame, if you've already got meego running | 21:17 |
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| npm | 315 packages to upgrade, 3 to downgrade, 1 to change vendor, 1 to change arch. | 21:19 |
| CosmoHill | what's the name of the terminal in MeeGo? | 21:19 |
| npm | 'zypper info gnome-terminal' | 21:20 |
| CosmoHill | thank you | 21:20 |
| CosmoHill | now I can copy and paste from chromium to gnome-terminal in TWM | 21:20 |
| npm | now why is that claimed to be in package 'non-oss' ?? | 21:20 |
| npm | doh | 21:21 |
| npm | because i left out "non" in the non-oss.repo file | 21:21 |
| npm | nevermind | 21:21 |
| npm | thanks for catching my error :-) | 21:21 |
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| npm | i'm not even sure why non-oss is in there. is there anything used from it on the ExoPC tablet? | 21:22 |
| fiferboy | npm: What version are you updating from? | 21:24 |
| npm | trunk of last week | 21:24 |
| fiferboy | npm: 1.2.0.90 branch? | 21:24 |
| npm | yeah | 21:24 |
| fiferboy | Whenever I try doing a command-line upgrade it ends up bailing in the middle and leaving the system unusable | 21:25 |
| npm | why is that a mistake? | 21:25 |
| npm | well i check before i reboot with an init 3 ; init 5 | 21:25 |
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| fiferboy | For me it seems to update the rpm libraries, bails the update, and won't execute any zypper commands after that | 21:26 |
| npm | i do a bunch of voodoo first | 21:26 |
| fiferboy | npm: Ooo, what is your voodoo? | 21:26 |
| gabrbedd | fiferboy: If you're doing massive upgrades... yeah, I've found that to happen. | 21:27 |
| npm | sudo zypper clean --all | 21:27 |
| npm | sudo zypper --gpg-auto-import-keys refresh | 21:27 |
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| gabrbedd | fiferboy: But usually after a reboot I can simply fire off `zypper dup` and it'll pick up where it left off. | 21:27 |
| fiferboy | gabrbedd: I usually just do a clean install, but the installer was broken for a couple weeks | 21:27 |
| npm | sudo zypper dup --from 'MeeGo:1.2:non-oss (MeeGo_1.2)' --from 'MeeGo:1.2:oss (standard)' --from 'adobe' | 21:27 |
| * fiferboy writes down zypper voodoo | 21:28 | |
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| gabrbedd | fiferboy: I do both. If you can't continue after a reboot that's major bad. If you can, that's normal juju. | 21:28 |
| npm | sudo rm -f /etc/prelink.cache ; sudo /etc/cron.daily/prelink ; sudo rm -f /etc/readahead.packed ; sudo /etc/init.d/sreadahead-pack start | 21:28 |
| npm | you may not need all the args spelled out like i have, but i got http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo-Lem and i don't want fedora interfering w/ my updates | 21:29 |
| fiferboy | npm: Thanks, that looks helpful | 21:30 |
| npm | i'm running my 'post upgrade' script which does the prelink/readahead whackage | 21:31 |
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| * npm plays http://velocityconf.com/velocity2011/public/content/video as background music | 21:35 | |
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| npm | it survived init 3 ; init 5, though scary for a while because it took much longer to launch than normal | 21:38 |
| fiferboy | npm: Does your "Settings" program look right? | 21:40 |
| lcuk | question: wat constitues an "app" | 21:41 |
| lcuk | could I begin live uploading new apps as fast I draw them? | 21:41 |
| lcuk | complete full app - designed to re-render what I draw here | 21:41 |
| lcuk | installer and app icon and everything | 21:41 |
| lcuk | +typing fixes | 21:41 |
| npm | settings works | 21:42 |
| fiferboy | The main settings screen looks messed up for my new install of 20110614 | 21:44 |
| npm | well it's messed up in that the toplevel wastes space and doesn't tell you there's stuff below general | 21:45 |
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| npm | but in it's simplistic looking form, it seems ok | 21:45 |
| fiferboy | Ok. My top level has all the entries printed overtop of each other and half off the top of the screen | 21:46 |
| npm | when you did your upgrades, did you check for rpmnew files, and integrate them? | 21:47 |
| fiferboy | npm: I just did an install with the 20110614 image | 21:48 |
| npm | oh a fresh install? can't help you there. | 21:48 |
| npm | the last fresh install on this tablet was at meego conf at intel booth | 21:49 |
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| fiferboy | I'll try the next image before I get too worried. It looks like things were caught in the middle of a transition | 21:49 |
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| npm | well it rebooted ok and seems to work, perhaps a little better | 22:00 |
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| npm | actually, a lot better :-) | 22:04 |
| fiferboy | npm: Does the interface seem to be updated? Slightly different theme and graphics? | 22:05 |
| npm | that happened on the first update | 22:06 |
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| fiferboy | Yeah, I knew it happened sometime in June I just wasn't sure when :) | 22:07 |
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| blindfish | hey guys, has someone tried the latest meego-builds on a wetab / exopc? i don't get them installed | 22:08 |
| npm | see above | 22:08 |
| npm | :-) | 22:08 |
| npm | yes. worksforme | 22:08 |
| fiferboy | blindfish: Recent builds had a bug with the installer until today | 22:09 |
| fiferboy | Latest image installs properly | 22:09 |
| blindfish | ooh, thank you ;) | 22:09 |
| blindfish | then i guess i have to try it | 22:09 |
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| blindfish | uhmm ... the 1.2.80-images were the stable-ones, right? | 22:11 |
| fiferboy | blindfish: No, those are the 1.3 devel images | 22:11 |
| fiferboy | 1.2.0.90 are the 1.2.1 devel images | 22:12 |
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| blindfish | okay, thanks ;) | 22:13 |
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| CosmoHill | are there any AMD developers in here? | 22:35 |
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| paroneayea | anyone try running http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/Nook_Color ? | 23:12 |
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| lcuk | paroneayea, I guess some people around meego have else hte page would not exist | 23:55 |
| paroneayea | lcuk: :) | 23:55 |
| lcuk | if you want to send me a nook over I will give it a try | 23:56 |
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| lcuk | Venemo_, :) | 23:59 |
| lcuk | once again | 23:59 |
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| lcuk | http://gitorious.org/colorful-apps/puzzle-master/trees/master/rpm | 23:59 |
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