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| Saviq | anyone encountered problems with writing images to a memory stick? on Fedora 15 I'm having issues | 00:38 |
|---|---|---|
| Saviq | regardless of whether I use dd or image_writer, the machine locks up periodically | 00:38 |
| Saviq | and as a result the image written is corrupted | 00:39 |
| lcuk | Saviq, that is down to host machine and host os? | 00:39 |
| Saviq | os, I've successfully written images here before | 00:39 |
| Saviq | on suse | 00:39 |
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| gabrbedd | Saviq: Yep, lcuk's right... there's no way that the image can be the problem. It's a problem with your OS/hardware. | 00:40 |
| Saviq | I will check on another machine with f15 | 00:40 |
| Saviq | ah yes, that I know | 00:40 |
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| Saviq | I'm asking if anyone has ideas / workarounds? | 00:40 |
| lcuk | install meego! | 00:40 |
| * lcuk grins evily | 00:41 | |
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| Saviq | well, I'm gonna have to get it on the damn stick, first :P | 00:41 |
| lcuk | chicken and egg | 00:41 |
| lcuk | how far through the image does it get? | 00:41 |
| lcuk | because the git in me would say, try booting it anyway if its >60-70% | 00:42 |
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| Saviq | well, it says it got through completely | 00:42 |
| lcuk | it is like scratches on game disks | 00:42 |
| lcuk | then boot from it | 00:42 |
| Saviq | it locks up, then unlocks etc. | 00:42 |
| Saviq | it won't | 00:42 |
| lcuk | if all the data is there it will work | 00:42 |
| Saviq | complains about squashfs issues | 00:42 |
| lcuk | you mean, "after I making the image, and then booting from the image, my machine locks up" | 00:43 |
| Saviq | no | 00:43 |
| lcuk | of "whilst making the image it craps out" | 00:43 |
| lcuk | or ^ | 00:43 |
| Saviq | it locks up, but unlocks after a while | 00:43 |
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| gabrbedd | Squashfs issues? Huh? | 00:43 |
| lcuk | ok, so take the usb key | 00:43 |
| lcuk | and boot from it | 00:43 |
| Saviq | lcuk: it won't boot | 00:43 |
| Saviq | that's what I'm saying | 00:43 |
| lcuk | right | 00:43 |
| Saviq | so the written data is corrupted | 00:44 |
| lcuk | what happens when you try and boot from it? | 00:44 |
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| gabrbedd | Why would `dd` ever care about squashfs? | 00:44 |
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| Saviq | gabrbedd: it doesn't | 00:44 |
| Saviq | let me start over | 00:44 |
| Saviq | the image, according to dd or image_writer, gets written correctly | 00:44 |
| lcuk | https://meego.com/devices/netbook/installing-meego-your-netbook | 00:44 |
| Saviq | during the process, the host machine locks up for periods of time | 00:44 |
| lcuk | get image-writer from there | 00:44 |
| lcuk | insert usb stick | 00:44 |
| Saviq | got it from there | 00:45 |
| lcuk | run image-writer {yourimage} | 00:45 |
| lcuk | follow prompt | 00:45 |
| Saviq | lcuk: doing all that, to no avail | 00:45 |
| gabrbedd | Saviq: Maybe the download was corrupt? Did you check the hash? | 00:45 |
| lcuk | can you pastebin the ocmmand and all output given from image-writer | 00:45 |
| lcuk | command | 00:45 |
| gabrbedd | Saviq: the MD5 hashes are in the `MANIFEST` file next to where you downloaded the image. | 00:46 |
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| Saviq | gabrbedd: yeah, checked those | 00:46 |
| * lcuk needs coffee | 00:46 | |
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| andyross | Also: if you're getting lockups during write, the image may be bad due to hardware failure (try running "dmesg" and see if there are any obvious errors). Check the MD5 sum of the USB stick, not just the source file, e.g. dd if=/dev/sdb bs=1 count=<size of original file> | md5sum | 00:47 |
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| gabrbedd | Saviq: In addition to what andyross said... try different USB ports (if you have them). | 00:50 |
| gabrbedd | Saviq: I also have a flash drive that is un-trustable. So after a write I have to leave it in the machine for about 90 secs after a `sync` or there will be data corruption. | 00:51 |
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| andyross | gabrbedd: you're one of those people who puts empty ball point pens back in the cup too, aren't you? :) Seriously: throw that thing out. | 00:53 |
| gabrbedd | andyross: Why yes, yes I do. | 00:55 |
| gabrbedd | :-P | 00:55 |
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| berndhs | can't have enough empty ball point pens | 00:58 |
| andyross | (seriously: this has been the source of more marital strife than anything else in my family. My wife will take out a pen, discover it doesn't write well, then swap it with another. Known bad hardware: JUST SAY NO.) | 00:59 |
| * alterego chuckles | 01:00 | |
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| flailingmonkey | same goes for known bad microsd cards | 01:00 |
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| berndhs | I once "reserved" a boot floppy in a lab by writing "BAD" on it. was there for months, and nobody touched it | 01:01 |
| gabrbedd | Ya gotta keep hope alive. | 01:02 |
| gabrbedd | lol | 01:02 |
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| alterego | Hah | 01:04 |
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| Saviq | lcuk, gabrbedd, andyross: booted to rescuecd, used the same image, same image-writer and / or dd... everything's fine | 01:28 |
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| Saviq | it's like some I/O threshold got triggered on fedora that prevented the data from going through properly | 01:28 |
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| Saviq | maybe memory's scarce... | 01:29 |
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| andyross | No, that just plain shouldn't happen. There's nothing in dmesg showing an error? | 01:32 |
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| Saviq | andyross: nope, dmesg's clean | 01:36 |
| Saviq | andyross: I believe that when the system is more or less idle, it managed to put the image in | 01:36 |
| Saviq | if there's anything else happening, all hell breaks loose | 01:36 |
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| andyross | My point was more that hell really shouldn't be breaking lose. :) That's a bug or bad hardware. Try with a different device, and if it still happens report it to your distro's bug tracker. | 01:39 |
| Saviq_afk | yeah, will have to | 01:39 |
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| pixelgeek_ | gabrbedd: Aren't you a little old to be quoting Phineas and Ferb? ;) | 03:19 |
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| gabrbedd | pixelgeek: I have 4 kids. I can't escape it. And Phineas and Ferb are awesome. :-) | 03:45 |
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| iekku | good morning | 05:44 |
| sofar | sup | 05:46 |
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| GonzoTheGreat | stskeeps: Any news on the UX direction for the N900 CE? | 08:58 |
| Stskeeps | in terms of? | 08:58 |
| Stskeeps | (and we can discuss this in #meego-arm :) | 08:58 |
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| Jaffa | Moorning, all | 10:25 |
| Stskeeps | morn jaffa | 10:25 |
| Stskeeps | still in sweden? | 10:25 |
| Jaffa | Stskeeps: Yup | 10:26 |
| Jaffa | Stskeeps: Back Thursday evening | 10:26 |
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| lardman | morning | 11:45 |
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| xoanm | VERSION | 12:25 |
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| slaine | Are the pre 1.3 images usable ? | 12:31 |
| slaine | thinking of installing | 12:31 |
| slaine | on the ideapad (netbook | 12:31 |
| slaine | ) | 12:31 |
| slaine | gah, curse these hands | 12:31 |
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| vvaltone | slaine, try the live mode? | 12:41 |
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| damian_-_ | i once found what i remember was a wiki? of progress with meego on nvidia - including a repo. anyone know where i may find this. i cant find it anymore | 13:52 |
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| Stskeeps | forum.meego.com has a guide somewhere | 13:53 |
| dm8tbr | and my bugs server prolly the image ;) | 13:53 |
| damian_-_ | hmm ill have another look but i just came from there. | 13:53 |
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| dm8tbr | http://bug10738.openaos.org/images/tegra2/ | 13:59 |
| MeeGoBot | Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10738 nor, Undecided, ---, tero.kojo, NEED, Meego community ftp server or similar needed | 13:59 |
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| lcuk | Howto: MeeGo on nVidia http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=2117 | 14:01 |
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| lcuk | old, possibly wrong link | 14:01 |
| lcuk | damian_-_, please let me know if that is sort of thing needed | 14:01 |
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| lcuk | and comment on the thread if so, enough people ask about nvidia | 14:01 |
| lcuk | having a good source to point them towards will be helpful | 14:02 |
| lcuk | dm8tbr, the images there are only a part of it - perhaps also adding link to the tegra image on that thread would be useful? | 14:02 |
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| dm8tbr | lcuk: I don't see a kickstart with that image, that makes me cringe... | 14:03 |
| dm8tbr | also as it's now what almost 3 months old? | 14:03 |
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| lcuk | sure dm8tbr, was just a thought | 14:07 |
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| damian_-_ | icuk, will come in handy thanks. im gonna give it a shot now | 14:17 |
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| damian_-_ | another question. i have been running meego on a netbook but find a lack of apps.. can we put intel appup on meego or can it support for example the apt system | 14:18 |
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| dm8tbr | for questions about appup ask intel... | 14:25 |
| dm8tbr | and 'apt' would not help you, what you need are repositories with adapted software | 14:25 |
| dm8tbr | community OBS is a place where many things will happen | 14:25 |
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| damian_-_ | ok, sorry whats obs | 14:30 |
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| ali1234 | a complicated and difficult to use way of building software that stops working when the remote server goes down | 14:31 |
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| * lbt_hel stabs ali1234 | 15:10 | |
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| lcuk | ali1234, and the alternative (to your obs comment) would be? | 15:25 |
| ali1234 | well fixing meego so it can actually compile it's own packages would be a start | 15:26 |
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| Venemo_N900 | ali1234, "it's" != "its" | 15:30 |
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| CosmoHill | Word 2010 has taught me that | 15:32 |
| Venemo_N900 | :) | 15:33 |
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| * CosmoHill needs to have a clear up cos his server has ran out of space | 15:33 | |
| lcuk | ali1234, MeeGo itself can | 15:34 |
| lcuk | I have gcc and the development pattern on my ideapad | 15:34 |
| lcuk | the problem is: time | 15:34 |
| lcuk | doing the same is feasible on the n900 | 15:35 |
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| ali1234 | lcuk: you mean meego itself in theory can, except on the broken packages where it doesn't work, which nobody wants to fix | 15:35 |
| lcuk | but native compiling of anything but the most streamlined optimal small apps takes an age on ARM | 15:35 |
| Venemo_N900 | you don't want to compile anything more difficult than a hello world on your N900... | 15:36 |
| lcuk | Venemo_N900, :) then liqbase is the biggest hello world in the world ;) | 15:38 |
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| ali1234 | i wonder why you are asking for an alternative to OBS when OBS has literally no advantages over NOT using OBS for developers who are just making a single package | 15:39 |
| Venemo_N900 | lcuk, liqbase doesn't really count because you specifically optimized its compilation speed :P | 15:39 |
| ali1234 | in your case the alternative is simply: don't use OBS | 15:39 |
| lcuk | Venemo_N900, no, I just started with components and elements that worked | 15:39 |
| Venemo_N900 | btw, I why did MeeGo choose OBS over Koji? | 15:39 |
| * CosmoHill is using MeeGo as a live host for CLFS | 15:40 | |
| Venemo_N900 | CLFS=? | 15:40 |
| CosmoHill | Cross Linux From Scratch (http://cross-lfs.org) | 15:40 |
| Venemo_N900 | mhm | 15:41 |
| lcuk | why not http://annoyed-lfs.org ? | 15:41 |
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| juliank | lcuk: It's funnier if you link to an existing url. | 15:45 |
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| lcuk | juliank, does it make you angry? | 15:46 |
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| DawnFoster | Reminder: Community Office Meeting starting in 45 minutes: http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Office/Meetings#Next_CO_meeting | 16:15 |
| DawnFoster | in #meego-meeting | 16:15 |
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| * lcuk kicks his slow internet | 16:22 | |
| lcuk | todays image is taking an age to download | 16:22 |
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| smoku | ali1234: for development plain rpmbuild is enough. OBS makes sense once you want to target more than your own localhost. | 16:26 |
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| ali1234 | i know this | 16:27 |
| ali1234 | the problem is that rpmbuild often doesn't work because the packages are broken | 16:27 |
| ali1234 | and obs only makes sense when you are making an entire hardware adaption | 16:27 |
| smoku | i would be really surprised if rpmbuild worked for broken packages :D | 16:28 |
| smoku | that's just stating the obvious :) | 16:28 |
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| ali1234 | not all of the packages are broken | 16:30 |
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| smoku | when I was packaging widelands for meego I wasn't making whole hardware adaptation. but I wanted rpms for MeeGo 1.0 and 1.1, both i586 and ARM. without OBS building them would be plain PITA | 16:30 |
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| smoku | i packaged it for my local arch and version, and OBS did the rest | 16:31 |
| ali1234 | what did OBS really do though? | 16:32 |
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| ali1234 | does t have access to packages that are not available in a meego install? | 16:32 |
| ali1234 | compilers? | 16:33 |
| smoku | built packages for different MeeGo versions and architectures than I had on my machine | 16:33 |
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| ali1234 | why can this only be done on a remote server? | 16:33 |
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| smoku | doing the same toying with cross compilers, chroots, qemu etc manually would be major PITA | 16:33 |
| ali1234 | only because meego is broken | 16:33 |
| lcuk | smoku, ali1234 - finding optimal compiler mechanism | 16:34 |
| lcuk | and let end users download source | 16:34 |
| lcuk | :) | 16:34 |
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| smoku | maemo SDK provides scratchbox environment to automate this on your machine | 16:34 |
| lcuk | dynamic compilation | 16:34 |
| lcuk | even MS .net does it | 16:34 |
| ali1234 | you are missing the point | 16:34 |
| smoku | i used both, and OBS is pure pleasure compared to scratchbox | 16:34 |
| dneary | hi | 16:34 |
| dneary | CO meeting is in 30 mins, right? | 16:34 |
| ali1234 | where is the package in meego repos that install a full OBS server? | 16:35 |
| juliank | smoku: You shouldn't even mention this hacky scratchy boxy thingy | 16:35 |
| ali1234 | where is the command which clones the meego OBS to my own private server? | 16:35 |
| lcuk | dneary, 25 minutes according to when DawnFoster mentioned it and when we are now | 16:35 |
| dm8tbr | ali1234: there are instructions on the wiki | 16:35 |
| dneary | lcuk, I think you're in the universe that's 5 minutes ahead of me | 16:35 |
| dm8tbr | ali1234: nowadays it's easier to use obs linking though IIRC | 16:36 |
| juliank | People should either (in that order): (a) compile native | (b) compile emulated | (c) cross-compile | 16:36 |
| ali1234 | dm8tbr: linking puts you at the mercy of the main server not to go down | 16:36 |
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| lcuk | dneary, http://liqbase.net/liq.20110614_143607.ciroclock_minutes_12h_time.scr.png | 16:36 |
| ali1234 | that's the main problem i have with OBS | 16:36 |
| dm8tbr | ali1234: you are free to copy a full release to your local obs then... | 16:37 |
| juliank | People should never ever run some commands natively and some emulated without OS support for doing this | 16:37 |
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| dneary | lcuk, Is that your handwriting font? | 16:37 |
| ali1234 | dm8tbr: you might as well say "you're free to go and write your own distro from scratch" because its roughly as easy as setting up a private OBS | 16:37 |
| lcuk | ali1234, "OCS" or "OSC" is a local build version | 16:37 |
| Venemo_N900 | ali1234, the rule of thumb is this: 1) use rpmbuild for your own local builds 2) use the build service if you want to build/distribute it to others | 16:37 |
| dneary | lcuk, You're definitely in a different universe to me. | 16:37 |
| lcuk | that downloads everything needed for offline use | 16:37 |
| smoku | ali1234: obs is open source. you can satup your own on your localhost. | 16:37 |
| dneary | My clocks are tuned to the Caesium | 16:37 |
| dneary | :-) | 16:37 |
| dm8tbr | ali1234: orly? did you? because I did it 3 times already... | 16:37 |
| lcuk | dneary, yes it is my handwriting, and all the clocks in hosue show that time | 16:38 |
| lcuk | house ^ | 16:38 |
| lcuk | http://www.thetimenow.com/ | 16:38 |
| ali1234 | dm8tbr: which? make my own distro, or setup an OBS server? | 16:38 |
| dm8tbr | setup obs | 16:38 |
| ali1234 | yes, i've done it a couple of times | 16:38 |
| lcuk | dneary, your ceasium might be accurate for keeping time, but if you start from the wrong offset ;) | 16:39 |
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| ali1234 | tbh i found bootstrapping gcc and glibc to be easier | 16:39 |
| dneary | lcuk, Of course, I'm chain-yanking. I was just being imprecise when I said it'll be on in 30 mins | 16:39 |
| ali1234 | but setting up an OBS is only half the picture | 16:39 |
| ali1234 | even after you;ve got the thing working you still then only have a completely empty server | 16:39 |
| lcuk | dneary, either way the meeting is "soon" | 16:39 |
| dm8tbr | the longest thing about setting up OBS is the rsync of a full meego release (unless you are on a really fast connection) | 16:40 |
| gabrbedd | dneary: 20' 40" | 16:40 |
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| gabrbedd | dneary: how's it going with the wallpapering? | 16:40 |
| ali1234 | and even when you've got a full mirror you are still left wondering: what does this thing actually do for me? | 16:40 |
| dneary | gabrbedd, Back to work | 16:41 |
| dneary | Finished 2.5 walls of the 2nd bedroom yesterday | 16:41 |
| dm8tbr | ali1234: I really start to wonder if you're just trolling though... | 16:41 |
| dneary | And another 1 wall to go | 16:41 |
| * gabrbedd prefers paint :-) | 16:41 | |
| dneary | With a window & radiator in it :( | 16:41 |
| ali1234 | dm8tbr: i'm just passing time while i wait for meego 1.2 to download so i can see if any of the bugs i reported in 1.1 were fixed | 16:41 |
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| lcuk | ali1234, generally checking bugs.meego.com for your bugs would be simple too | 16:42 |
| dneary | gabrbedd, Is that you 5k time? | 16:42 |
| dm8tbr | ok, excuse me while I stop feeding you then and do some valuable stuff... | 16:42 |
| gabrbedd | dneary: ewwwww.... that makes it more interesting. | 16:42 |
| dneary | gabrbedd, I did OK with the radiator on Sunday | 16:42 |
| dneary | There's a 3rd room to do at some stage too | 16:42 |
| gabrbedd | dneary: no, my 5k time would be a bit higher than that. | 16:43 |
| ali1234 | lcuk: checking bmo is usually not a good way to see if the bugs are fixed, because there are so many people without a clue marking stuff "works for me" | 16:43 |
| lcuk | ali1234, well if things to work for them, you either filed the bug wrong or are being over clinical | 16:44 |
| gabrbedd | dneary: your home? | 16:44 |
| ali1234 | lcuk: or they're an idiot and they didn't read the steps to reproduce properly | 16:44 |
| dneary | gabrbedd, Yes | 16:44 |
| lcuk | ali1234, can you show me a bug where they did this ? | 16:44 |
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| lcuk | I haven't seen much in the way of idiots operating bugzille | 16:44 |
| lcuk | a | 16:44 |
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| lcuk | and if the teams are not working correctly and misjudging bugs importance when you spent time filing them, then something could be looked at | 16:46 |
| ali1234 | lcuk: https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=12816 | 16:46 |
| MeeGoBot | Bug 12816 enh, Undecided, ---, gavin.hindman, NEW, [FEA] No option to install without bootloader step | 16:46 |
| ali1234 | https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14307 | 16:46 |
| MeeGoBot | Bug 14307 nor, Medium, ---, kai.chai, RESO WORKSFORME, kernel build with rpmbuild fails during prep | 16:46 |
| ali1234 | (that's the one i'm going to test today) | 16:46 |
| lcuk | if the installation wipes out your triple boot | 16:47 |
| lcuk | then how do you test properly | 16:47 |
| ali1234 | this is why i am only just getting around to testing 1.2 | 16:47 |
| ali1234 | if they fixed that bug i would have tested it before now | 16:47 |
| lcuk | and since you are already knowledable enough to manage triple booting (I get headfunk double booting) | 16:47 |
| ali1234 | but as i explained at the time | 16:47 |
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| ali1234 | if you make testing be a PITA then i'm not going to test | 16:48 |
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| gabrbedd | ali1234: Do you know how to save/restore your MBR? | 16:48 |
| ali1234 | yes | 16:48 |
| lcuk | to be honest ali1234 - how many people triple (or even dual) boot? | 16:48 |
| gabrbedd | ok. | 16:48 |
| lcuk | your assertion to simply make an advanced option is not a bug fix | 16:49 |
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| ali1234 | lcuk: how many people actually test the images and report bugs? | 16:49 |
| lcuk | but a whole new area | 16:49 |
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| gabrbedd | lcuk: Are you arguing against the validity of 12816? | 16:49 |
| lcuk | hence the addition of #FEA for 1.3 proposal | 16:49 |
| lcuk | no | 16:49 |
| ali1234 | lcuk: how many people do you want to test the images and report bugs? if the answer to that question is "0" then please, keep making excuses for why the installer sucks | 16:49 |
| lcuk | I am wondering how many people it impacts | 16:49 |
| gabrbedd | lcuk: Mostly devs. I know it impacts me. | 16:49 |
| * lcuk sees no votes | 16:50 | |
| lcuk | and heard about this only today | 16:50 |
| gabrbedd | lcuk: If I want to use a bootloader other than meego, I have to save/restore the MBR. | 16:50 |
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| villev | it impacts me too | 16:50 |
| berndhs | me too | 16:51 |
| lcuk | gabrbedd, how would this be changed, isthere a specific way to cure it? | 16:51 |
| gabrbedd | lcuk: In the case of the Windows bootloader, it can totally bork your system because you won't be able to do a system restore after MeeGo fiddles with the MBR. | 16:51 |
| lcuk | VOTE FOR THE BUGS THAT IMPACT YOU. | 16:51 |
| villev | other linux distros are polite in that they allow skipping the bootloader stuff | 16:51 |
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| lcuk | I voted for it, but I do not understand the issue because I am not technical enough to dualboot | 16:52 |
| villev | how do you vote on a bug? | 16:52 |
| lcuk | click the vote button on the bug | 16:52 |
| ali1234 | lcuk: anyway the reason i linked you to that bug was because of the way auke flat out told me that i was wrong, and the option existed, and then i had to reopen it after making a series of screenshots proving that it's not there any more | 16:52 |
| ali1234 | i fully expect to have to do the same thing with the other bug | 16:52 |
| * gabrbedd votes | 16:53 | |
| lcuk | ali1234, no qualms and obviously from what I just heard here the bug does matter | 16:53 |
| gabrbedd | lcuk: Honestly... does anyone check the votes? | 16:53 |
| ali1234 | it's not about the importance or how many people it affects | 16:53 |
| ali1234 | just because it only affects one person does not change the fact it's a bug | 16:53 |
| gabrbedd | ali1234: ++ | 16:53 |
| villev | so where is the vote button? | 16:53 |
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| lcuk | gabrbedd, well hearing how passionately ali1234 was I expected at least someone else to have been voting for it | 16:54 |
| ali1234 | lol | 16:54 |
| gabrbedd | lcuk: I haven't been in the habit of voting for bugs. | 16:54 |
| ali1234 | i haven't looked at this stuff for 2 months | 16:54 |
| lcuk | there are no comments from other people | 16:54 |
| lcuk | etc | 16:54 |
| ali1234 | i don't really care if it's fixed or not | 16:54 |
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| villev | lcuk: where is the vote button? | 16:54 |
| lcuk | gabrbedd, it helps someway even if it is "ali1234 spoke to me, and I agree this bug mattered" | 16:54 |
| gabrbedd | lcuk: In fact, I was thinking "If a bunch of people are CC'ed on the bug... isn't that like a vote" | 16:55 |
| villev | I may be going blind | 16:55 |
| berndhs | lcuk: that doesnt make it unimportant, should people just comment "me too" ? | 16:55 |
| lcuk | https://bugs.meego.com/votes.cgi?action=show_user&bug_id=12816#vote_12816 | 16:55 |
| lcuk | berndhs, no | 16:55 |
| DawnFoster | Community Office Meeting starting in #meego-meeting in 5 minutes :) http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Office/Meetings#Next_CO_meeting | 16:55 |
| ali1234 | actually i htink people *should* comment "me too" | 16:55 |
| lcuk | gabrbedd, I look at both things | 16:55 |
| lcuk | his bug had neither | 16:55 |
| gabrbedd | lcuk: Also it doesn't impact me /that/ much, since I know how to work around it and I avoid dual-boot on dev machines. :-) | 16:55 |
| villev | isn't that adviced against? | 16:55 |
| lcuk | mostly bugs that effect people have numerous comments and discussions and votes | 16:55 |
| ali1234 | it's just my opinion though | 16:55 |
| lcuk | that had none of the above | 16:55 |
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| gabrbedd | villev: what? dual boot? | 16:56 |
| lcuk | gabrbedd, you have to work around it | 16:56 |
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| berndhs | wiping the boot loader makes installation a real pain | 16:56 |
| villev | gabrbedd: ME TOO on bugzillae | 16:56 |
| ali1234 | lcuk: btw i voted for the other bug which combines with this one to be SUPER ANNOYING | 16:56 |
| ali1234 | https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=5266 | 16:56 |
| MeeGoBot | Bug 5266 nor, Medium, ---, need-triage, NEW, Changing the default OS in "boot loader operating systems" in anaconda installer has no effect | 16:56 |
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| ali1234 | but seriously, should the bug reporter really have to vote for their own bugs just to prove they care? isn't reporting it enough? | 16:57 |
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| lcuk | ali1234, talking french really with bootloader things, I can try to explain how to make your bugs matter but unless this problem exists on a straight simple install I am not going to encounter it | 16:57 |
| lcuk | ali1234, no | 16:57 |
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| lcuk | but *talking* about it and trying to find people who may be able to advance it does. | 16:58 |
| lcuk | like gabrbedd did, he followed his bugs into the tablet triage meetings | 16:58 |
| lcuk | you should be doing the same :P | 16:58 |
| ali1234 | tablet? what? | 16:58 |
| villev | ok, they could make the "vote" button bigger | 16:58 |
| ali1234 | this is a netbook bug | 16:58 |
| ali1234 | besides, i don't have time to play bug advocate | 16:59 |
| lcuk | ali1234, I was saying what gabrbedd did, there are regular bug triage meetings | 16:59 |
| lcuk | where you can bring up bugs which ummm bug you. | 16:59 |
| ali1234 | it doesn't bug me | 16:59 |
| lcuk | ali1234, you have spent long enough now doing it :) hope it advances them | 16:59 |
| ali1234 | it prevents me from testing images | 16:59 |
| ali1234 | but it's not like i don't have more interesting things to do anyway | 17:00 |
| ali1234 | at the end of the day, it's no skin off my nose if it is never fixed | 17:00 |
| lcuk | ali1234, what inside the image do you test against? | 17:00 |
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| ali1234 | what do you mean? | 17:00 |
| gabrbedd | ali1234: lcuk Actually, attending the triage didn't help much.... except that they advised me to propose the bug as a release blocker. | 17:00 |
| lcuk | well you say you cannot test | 17:00 |
| ali1234 | like i said, today i'm going to check if the kernel package can be compiled by rpmbuild yet | 17:00 |
| villev | TwimGo.desktop: error: value "2.8.4" for key "Version" in group "Desktop Entry" is not a known version | 17:00 |
| lcuk | what would you be doing if it booted up | 17:01 |
| villev | uh, I didn't know it was this picky | 17:01 |
| ali1234 | lcuk: https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14307 | 17:01 |
| MeeGoBot | Bug 14307 nor, Medium, ---, kai.chai, RESO WORKSFORME, kernel build with rpmbuild fails during prep | 17:01 |
| * gabrbedd goes to community meegint :-) | 17:01 | |
| ali1234 | has full steps that will test in the "steps to reproduce" section | 17:01 |
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| lcuk | community meeting now in #meego-meeting | 17:02 |
| lcuk | community meeting now in #meego-meeting | 17:02 |
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| iekku | now? | 17:03 |
| iekku | oh my :( | 17:03 |
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| berndhs | oh i suppose I can go look what they say | 17:04 |
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| Texrat | hey gang. just got out of job interview | 17:05 |
| iekku | need to leave home soon, so can't participate | 17:05 |
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| gabrbedd | Texrat: yay! did it go ok? | 17:09 |
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| Texrat | gabrbedd I have a good feeling about it :) | 17:11 |
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| lcuk | Texrat, an offline job? | 17:14 |
| * lcuk being pushed that way | 17:14 | |
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| Texrat | lcuk, it's a systems support role with NSN | 17:14 |
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| lcuk | oh cool | 17:14 |
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| Texrat | ferenc you on this channel? | 17:24 |
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| ferenc | ping Texrat | 17:29 |
| Texrat | ping ferenc ;) | 17:29 |
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| Texrat | listen: it looks like my job situation might be improving. Which means I will have more time to devote to meego, etc... | 17:29 |
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| Texrat | so ferenc, FYI I will be in touch to talk about developing a generic version of the community device program further | 17:30 |
| ferenc | Texrat: ok, fine. I was thinking to turn off the app we put up some months ago... | 17:31 |
| ferenc | Texrat: but that's a very good news that your job situation will improve :) | 17:31 |
| Texrat | thanks ferenc. mshaver has launched the drupal app for MeeGo but it would be nice if you could maintain a sandbox | 17:34 |
| ferenc | Texrat: we can talk about it | 17:34 |
| Texrat | ferenc: great | 17:35 |
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| ferenc | Texrat: could you send an email to the -dev or -community list about your thoughts of the devprogram stuff and how the application I wrote can be connected? | 17:40 |
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| airmack | hoi hoi | 17:40 |
| airmack | Can anybody tell me, why dm devices are not supported? | 17:41 |
| Stskeeps | i use devicemapper for mic2 in meego, i'm sure it's supported? | 17:41 |
| airmack | ah i meant luks devices | 17:42 |
| Stskeeps | send a patch? :) | 17:42 |
| Stskeeps | it should be supported with ease, but noone implemented it yet | 17:42 |
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| lcuk | alterego, heh | 17:43 |
| lcuk | the contacts import is just something simple to make people feel more welcome | 17:43 |
| lcuk | that is not life changing, but adds colour to the n900-CE experience | 17:44 |
| Texrat | sure ferenc | 17:44 |
| airmack | Stskeeps: actually that has already been fixed, just meego uses an older version of anaconda that had trouble with luks devices | 17:45 |
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| ferenc | Texrat: ok, let's continue on the list. Thanks. | 17:45 |
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| slaine | Guys, the Lenovo IdeaPad, did anyone get any RAM upgrades for theirs ? | 17:49 |
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| Stskeeps | didn't try, didn't have the need | 17:49 |
| airmack | https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2554 <-- Oww c'mon, this can't be called fixed m( | 17:49 |
| MeeGoBot | Bug 2554 cri, Medium, ---, yu.a.wang, RESO FIXED, Anaconda hangs on "Finding storage devices" on HD with LUKS partition | 17:49 |
| slaine | I got one via Crucial bit their wizard specified DDR2 SO-DIMMS and it looks like this one actually has DDR3 SO-DIMMS | 17:49 |
| slaine | s/bit/but | 17:50 |
| Stskeeps | airmack: 1.0 bug | 17:50 |
| Stskeeps | airmack: file one for 1.2 | 17:50 |
| airmack | 1.2 | 17:51 |
| Stskeeps | no, 2554's marked as 1.2 | 17:51 |
| Stskeeps | err.. | 17:51 |
| Stskeeps | `1.0 | 17:51 |
| airmack | it is still true in 1.2 | 17:51 |
| Stskeeps | yes, i know, but i don't think this bug is noted in 1.2 bugtracker :P | 17:51 |
| gabrbedd | airmack: usually RESOLVED/FIXED means that the fix is in Trunk:Testing, not any of the snapshot builds. | 17:52 |
| gabrbedd | airmack: After it gets VERIFIED then it goes to the stable snapshots. | 17:52 |
| gabrbedd | airmack: At least, that's how I think the process is working. :-) | 17:52 |
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| airmack | well the 'fix' is already part of 1.2 and was part of 1.1 | 17:53 |
| airmack | but just poping up a window telling the installation will abort ist not really a fix | 17:53 |
| Stskeeps | indeed | 17:53 |
| airmack | + the installation is not cleanly shutting down | 17:53 |
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| gabrbedd | airmack: true. | 17:54 |
| airmack | it keeps the X11 server in an unusable state | 17:54 |
| airmack | meaning you have to drop to the tty and manually reboot | 17:54 |
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| airmack | and is there any reason for starting an sshd during/before the installation? | 17:56 |
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| Texrat | let the after meeting party commence! | 18:00 |
| Jaffa | bergie: Agreed with the stamping | 18:00 |
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| lcuk | about apps | 18:01 |
| lcuk | can non-qt apps be considered compliant? | 18:01 |
| Texrat | dneary did you see the link I posted? | 18:01 |
| DawnFoster | *now to log off & drive into work* :) | 18:01 |
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| lcuk | DawnFoster, IRC/N900/Jogging | 18:02 |
| gabrbedd | lcuk: yes. However... | 18:02 |
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| gabrbedd | lcuk: They're considered "Platform API Compliant" -- which comes with fewer guarantees. | 18:02 |
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| lcuk | well apps themselves even in qt might be complaint but not feasible for all the UXes | 18:03 |
| lcuk | take for example Maemo Contacts Import | 18:03 |
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| lcuk | technically fully compliant | 18:03 |
| lcuk | based on being qt, but does not work as expected on other uxes | 18:03 |
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| dneary | Texrat, The one with slides? | 18:04 |
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| Texrat | yes dneary | 18:09 |
| gabrbedd | lcuk: Yes, it's possible to be compliant but it not work right on different UX's. | 18:10 |
| gabrbedd | lcuk: But in the case of MCI, why doesn't it work in other UX's? | 18:10 |
| dneary | Texrat, Yes, I saw it | 18:10 |
| lcuk | gabrbedd, what is MCI | 18:10 |
| dneary | Not sure that's the best way to go (you know I don't like stock slides ;) ) | 18:10 |
| Texrat | ok dneary hope that content helps | 18:10 |
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| gabrbedd | Maemo Contacts Import | 18:10 |
| Texrat | well dneary it's a start | 18:11 |
| dneary | But definitely makes it easier to throw a presentation together | 18:11 |
| dneary | Texrat, Indeed | 18:11 |
| dneary | I think that recruiting speakers is the way to go. | 18:11 |
| lcuk | gabrbedd, it possibly will to be fair | 18:11 |
| Texrat | dneary agreed | 18:11 |
| dneary | s/the/a good/ | 18:11 |
| infobot | dneary meant: I think that recruiting speakers is a good way to go. | 18:11 |
| lcuk | generic "point app at folder containing vcards" app | 18:11 |
| lcuk | dneary, how to get around issue of projectors | 18:11 |
| lcuk | and requirement for powerpoint over live demo | 18:12 |
| lcuk | I have had enough issues with video out | 18:12 |
| Texrat | anyway guys for those who missed it, I interviewed with NSN early this morning and I think my chances are good :D | 18:12 |
| gabrbedd | lcuk: Some things have to be covered by UI guidelines -- which have been wanting so far. | 18:12 |
| dneary | lcuk, I think that a presentation has to be adjusted for the audience, and has to be prepared in advance | 18:12 |
| Texrat | so I might get my life back! soon | 18:12 |
| lcuk | dneary, of course | 18:13 |
| berndhs | Texrat: good news, keep you off the street :) | 18:13 |
| Texrat | feh berndhs | 18:13 |
| alterego | What's NSN? | 18:13 |
| dneary | The slides are the last step of a presentation, the first is "what do these people want from me?" or "what question do these people have that I can answer?" | 18:13 |
| airmack | Gentlemen, have a nice day! | 18:13 |
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| Texrat | alterego it's Nokia Siemens networks | 18:13 |
| alterego | Ah, cool | 18:13 |
| alterego | G'luck :) | 18:13 |
| Texrat | ty | 18:13 |
| Texrat | should know in 2 or 3 days | 18:14 |
| dneary | lcuk, If the question is "I've heard of this MeeGo thing - it's a phone OS isn't it? Why should I care when iOS and Android make me wet my pants with joy already?" | 18:14 |
| dneary | Well, thet might be a tough audience | 18:14 |
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| alterego | I've got an interview on thursday :) | 18:14 |
| alterego | Hope it goes well | 18:14 |
| Saviq | hmm how do I make madde use the 1.2 toolchain version? it tries to use meego-1.2-sdk-ia32-toolchain-1.0-linux_x86_64.tar.gz, but the packages provide meego-1.2-sdk-ia32-toolchain-1.2-linux_x86_64.tar.gz ? | 18:14 |
| lcuk | dneary, I can answer that :) | 18:14 |
| alterego | dneary: who's the audience, users or vendors? | 18:15 |
| Jaffa | dneary: You can never be sure what question your audience might want answering - it might be "what's a PNG?" ;-) | 18:15 |
| alterego | Because users shouldn't care :) | 18:15 |
| * alterego chuckles | 18:16 | |
| dneary | alterego, Exactly | 18:16 |
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| alterego | What does the 'Q' stand for? | 18:16 |
| Jaffa | "Awesome" | 18:16 |
| lcuk | give them something they cannot have in android or ios | 18:17 |
| dneary | alterego, So, since the slides need doing for every audience, and since bullet points are called that because they make the audience want to shoot themselves, presenters should start with the audience and the story they want to tell them, and then do slides that reinforce that story & key point | 18:17 |
| dneary | lcuk, If your audience are mobile application developers, they only have one question: "where's the market?" | 18:18 |
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| dneary | And right now you can't answer that | 18:18 |
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| lcuk | I can | 18:18 |
| dneary | Ah | 18:18 |
| lcuk | I have been listening to it for over 10 years | 18:18 |
| * alterego points over there. | 18:18 | |
| dneary | "In 2014"? | 18:18 |
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| lcuk | I have spent time in the market and as a simpleton myself feel I am part of it. It is a market of people who think computers are complex and overwhelming | 18:19 |
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| lcuk | a place where people still write on wall calendars and fill in greeting cards and postcards by hand | 18:20 |
| Texrat | alterego I hope your interview goes well also! | 18:20 |
| lcuk | a market which is actually *bigger* than the ipad/iphone market | 18:20 |
| lcuk | because we are an aging generation | 18:20 |
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| dneary | lcuk, So - when I say "where is the market", I mean it in a Ron Tillsley kind of way | 18:21 |
| dneary | "Show me the money!" | 18:21 |
| lcuk | I don't know who that is | 18:21 |
| alterego | Texrat: thanks | 18:21 |
| lcuk | oh, that is easy | 18:21 |
| lcuk | go into John Lewis | 18:21 |
| Texrat | dneary, if I may: "show me the money NOW" ;) | 18:21 |
| alterego | dneary: maybe a good promotional point would be to advertise ISV requirements for adaptation engineers, and UX designers for product UX branding? | 18:22 |
| alterego | Apps are involved in that process, but maybe not concentrating on an actual app market just yet. | 18:22 |
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| lcuk | apps are useless without the bread and butter experience | 18:23 |
| gabrbedd | dneary: Texrat: n8willis's MeeGe article on linux.com might be a good starting place. | 18:23 |
| gabrbedd | I thought he did a good job of answering the question, "Why should I care about MeeGo?" | 18:23 |
| lcuk | dneary, safe as milk. you need the core experience to be solid and worthwhile - apps are just frosting on the top | 18:23 |
| dneary | MeeGe? | 18:24 |
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| Texrat | gabrbedd, he did for many, but not for the impatient ones | 18:24 |
| Texrat | ie stockholders and CEOs ;) | 18:24 |
| gabrbedd | Texrat: how many stockholders and CEO's do you plan to encounter in these presentations? | 18:25 |
| dneary | lcuk, All I'm saying is, if you're pitching to commercial mobile app developers now, you're pitching too early, because there isn't a market for MeeGo apps | 18:25 |
| gabrbedd | dneary: :-p | 18:25 |
| Stskeeps | today's hackers are the future CEO's ;) | 18:25 |
| dneary | lcuk, If you're pitching to handset manufacturers, you have a case | 18:25 |
| Texrat | gabrbedd, *I* am a stockholder ;) | 18:25 |
| dneary | But you also have a chicken & egg problem | 18:25 |
| lcuk | depends | 18:25 |
| dneary | But you have a key sales point: "gets you out from under Google's thumb" | 18:25 |
| lcuk | I need polishers | 18:25 |
| lcuk | not really developers | 18:25 |
| Texrat | anyway it depends on the audience of course, but those are the folks who matter at the end of the day (other than end customers) | 18:25 |
| lcuk | the ideas are already started | 18:25 |
| gabrbedd | Texrat: so nathan didn't convince you? | 18:25 |
| dneary | lcuk, So you need integrators. People putting MeeGo on devices, for real customers | 18:26 |
| lcuk | dneary, google have very impressive data capabilities | 18:26 |
| lcuk | and only a fool would ignore their help if it were offered | 18:26 |
| Texrat | gabrbedd I'm saying *I* don't need convincing... and that Nathan was largely preachign to the choir | 18:26 |
| alterego | lcuk: I agree, we need to promote UX branding developers. | 18:26 |
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| alterego | Show them the cool technology and how easy it is to make a product, whether handset, ttablet or something more bespoke . | 18:26 |
| gabrbedd | Texrat: There's no home-runs already out there... but I think a combination of Nathan's article and Bergie's blog are a good starting point. | 18:26 |
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| Texrat | gabrbedd agreed, for a select audience | 18:27 |
| lcuk | we need to have a device that from day1 looks and feels unique and simple and understandable enough that your grandme can use it | 18:27 |
| Texrat | gabrbedd we need to convince those heavily in the Android camp | 18:27 |
| * lcuk was happy to let his grandma use liqbase :) | 18:27 | |
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| lcuk | I am pleased she saw it | 18:27 |
| Texrat | MeeGo needs to pull from Android, bottom line | 18:27 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: Trying to be the OLPC with lofty goals of changing the world is an interesting approach which has rarely succeeded | 18:27 |
| maligor | 'pull'? | 18:28 |
| Texrat | steal | 18:28 |
| dneary | If your audience is free software geeks, then your arguments are different | 18:28 |
| lcuk | Jaffa, and copying what others do has similar issues | 18:28 |
| maligor | git pull android is quite large | 18:28 |
| Texrat | as in users, developers, et al | 18:28 |
| Texrat | not what I meant | 18:28 |
| ali1234 | maligor: at least it is *possible* | 18:28 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: Copy what they do and change *one thing* seems to be most successful | 18:28 |
| gabrbedd | Texrat: Steal... what? | 18:28 |
| Texrat | agreed Jaffa: one COMPELLING thing | 18:28 |
| lcuk | Jaffa, get it right and you become a billionaire | 18:28 |
| gabrbedd | Texrat: Sorry... just saw | 18:29 |
| dneary | this is community powered - look at Texrat & Stskeeps doing great work in the community, of <person X> building a module that got accepted into the core - look at the architecture, this is just like your desktop Linux system, etc" | 18:29 |
| ali1234 | maligor: there is no equivalent for meego, instead you have to hunt around the wiki and follow half complete instructions written by community members | 18:29 |
| Texrat | ty dneary | 18:29 |
| maligor | ali1234, what equivalence are you referring to? | 18:29 |
| dneary | Texrat, Perhaps that is what we could do instead of stock slides | 18:29 |
| dneary | audience "personas" and talking points? | 18:29 |
| Texrat | dneary I am already on that path ;) | 18:29 |
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| maligor | ali1234, full system build? | 18:30 |
| dneary | Cool | 18:30 |
| ali1234 | maligor: yes, exactly | 18:30 |
| Texrat | dneary I had planned to have videos, songs, etc at last meeGo Conf, but elopocalypse pushed that back | 18:30 |
| Texrat | NEXT MeeGo conf will be different | 18:30 |
| alterego | I'd rather see MeeGo do something unique. | 18:30 |
| alterego | Rather than clone Android, WebOS, iOS, WP7 .. | 18:30 |
| Texrat | let's all agree to move away from slides and more into dynamics | 18:30 |
| alterego | (Harmattan) | 18:30 |
| dneary | :) | 18:30 |
| maligor | alterego, I wouldn't bet too much on that | 18:31 |
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| Texrat | my goal: have commercial grade songs, art, videos, etc ready for next MeeGo conf | 18:31 |
| alterego | maligor: on what? | 18:31 |
| maligor | Nokia's meego product | 18:31 |
| Texrat | I want to see a complete switch in emphasis of MeeGo conf from Intel to community | 18:31 |
| berndhs | Texrat: as a precursor to that, let's have camera operators that know what is supposed to be in the picture | 18:31 |
| Texrat | that includes leadership, organizing, etc | 18:32 |
| Texrat | lol berndhs | 18:32 |
| Texrat | and sigh | 18:32 |
| Texrat | hey, *I* was in the picture! sadly, and my apologies to you all | 18:32 |
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| lcuk | offtopic: I know there are c and c++ books around, is there a book on how to file patents? | 18:32 |
| ali1234 | why don't you just organize your own meego conf, and don't invite anyone from intel? | 18:32 |
| maligor | Texrat, like a community sourced committee to handle platform makeup? | 18:32 |
| lcuk | ie what format you have to apply for them as | 18:33 |
| Texrat | of course lcuk, although that varies from region to region | 18:33 |
| alterego | maligor: bet on it doing what? | 18:33 |
| Texrat | maligor that's one, sure | 18:33 |
| alterego | maligor: I was saying I don't want MeeGo to clone these, we should be thinking something different, and paving the way for vendors to think different. | 18:33 |
| maligor | alterego, well, even coming on sale | 18:33 |
| alterego | maligor: it'll appear. | 18:33 |
| Texrat | although maligor my focus here is on community-led conference format, content, etc | 18:33 |
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| maligor | Texrat, depends on if you want to build products on it or not | 18:34 |
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| dm8tbr | Texrat: as much as I admire your goals, I strongly doubt you'll achieve them | 18:35 |
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| Texrat | well dm8tbr all WE can do is try ;) | 18:35 |
| maligor | Texrat, offhand I can only think of one embedded device that uses such a os | 18:35 |
| maligor | and that's Ubiquity Routerstation Pro with OpenWrt | 18:36 |
| Texrat | if we have something irresistable in time, Intel will realize they can spend much less money on next meeGo conf ;) | 18:36 |
| dm8tbr | Texrat: when I (once again) voiced my concerns about meego making it incredibly hard for community hardware adaptations I was basically told by an 'official' to 'suck it up and f* o*' (of course in a nice and convoluted friendly sounding way) | 18:36 |
| Texrat | yeah dm8tbr I have got that too but I am attackign from a different angle here | 18:37 |
| * lcuk might end up going offline soon | 18:37 | |
| Texrat | the conversation is getting blurry here-- my focus is on community outreach, leadership, marketing, etc | 18:37 |
| alterego | maligor: tbh, unless you have insider info, I've not heard anything to indicate Harmattan device has been cancelled. | 18:37 |
| maligor | no, not a clue about nokia | 18:38 |
| ali1234 | Texrat: what do you mean by "community outreach?" who are you reaching out to? | 18:38 |
| Texrat | ali1234 everyone | 18:38 |
| ali1234 | Texrat: ok. who is the "community" then? | 18:38 |
| ali1234 | out reach implies that there's two groups of people involved, and they can't both be "everyone" | 18:39 |
| Texrat | ali1234 everyone in this chat and then some | 18:39 |
| Texrat | well of course | 18:39 |
| dm8tbr | I think this follows the nokia community principle: 'the best community money can buy' | 18:39 |
| Texrat | it's the existing MeeGo community to every cynic, skeptic, and innocent ;) | 18:39 |
| ali1234 | so who is reaching out? | 18:39 |
| ali1234 | i don't understand it at all | 18:40 |
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| Texrat | ali1234 I have to admit to being confused by your questions | 18:40 |
| Texrat | see my statement above | 18:40 |
| Texrat | "it's the existing MeeGo community to every cynic, skeptic, and innocent ;)" | 18:40 |
| ali1234 | well you agree that there are two groups of people involved yes? | 18:40 |
| Texrat | of course... as I just noted | 18:40 |
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| ali1234 | haha, i misread that statement | 18:40 |
| ali1234 | specifically i misread "to" as a comma | 18:41 |
| Texrat | lol | 18:41 |
| Texrat | ok | 18:41 |
| Texrat | so you're a cynic? :P | 18:41 |
| ali1234 | yes | 18:41 |
| ali1234 | absolutely | 18:41 |
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| Texrat | ok, then allow me tom qualify: cynics, skeptics and innocents that aren't regular partiicpants in MeeGo | 18:41 |
| Texrat | sheesh, spelling | 18:42 |
| Texrat | I call anyone who has been in this channel 2 or more times a fringe MeeGo community member at least | 18:42 |
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| ali1234 | thing is | 18:42 |
| ali1234 | i've been a cynic since i started with meego | 18:43 |
| Texrat | so outreach = bringing in others | 18:43 |
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| ali1234 | and maemo | 18:43 |
| ali1234 | but not about the companies involved | 18:43 |
| Texrat | ali1234 that's cool, BUT-- you are HERE | 18:43 |
| ali1234 | for me it's more about the community | 18:43 |
| ali1234 | the community is where the problems are | 18:43 |
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| ali1234 | because the community cannot get it's act together and make decisions | 18:43 |
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| maligor | well, there'll probably be a few meego devices out reasonably soon too, maybe the angels will sing and the clouds depart ;P | 18:45 |
| ali1234 | that never helped maemo | 18:45 |
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| ali1234 | when the device gets released is when the complaining *really* starts | 18:46 |
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| Stskeeps | heh, i decided to preempt that with departing from tmo ;) | 18:46 |
| dm8tbr | good choice. I never got the hang of forums... | 18:47 |
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| dm8tbr | too low SNR | 18:47 |
| maligor | ali1234, yeah... maybe | 18:47 |
| ali1234 | specifically what i don't get, what i have never understood since i first heard about maemo, is why the community still perseveres with trying to work within the systems set up by nokia (and now intel) | 18:48 |
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| maligor | you mean obs? | 18:49 |
| dm8tbr | Texrat: btw - there would be embedded devices running meego, but as such efforts are not what the people really (tm) behind meego want it is being made as hard as only possible | 18:49 |
| ali1234 | maligor: no, not just OBS, i'm talking way deeper than that. i mean the whole control structure of meego in it's entireity | 18:49 |
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| dm8tbr | Texrat: visit http://bug10738.openaos.org/ if you want to know what I mean | 18:50 |
| MeeGoBot | Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10738 nor, Undecided, ---, tero.kojo, NEED, Meego community ftp server or similar needed | 18:50 |
| maligor | perhaps there isn't critical mass of community people | 18:50 |
| Texrat | dm8tbr that's a bit out of my scope | 18:50 |
| ali1234 | maligor: i think that may be part of it, but in a reverse way... | 18:50 |
| maligor | I mean, I'm not a community developer as such | 18:50 |
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| dm8tbr | maligor: there is not enough to overcome the overtly hostile powers behind meego, yes | 18:51 |
| maligor | I guess I'm a hostile power | 18:51 |
| Texrat | ali1234 that statement is too broad, sorry | 18:51 |
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| Texrat | there are many of us in the community stepping up and getting things done | 18:51 |
| lcuk | Texrat, device program question | 18:51 |
| Texrat | for instance 2 of us got named to the community office today: myself and x-fade | 18:52 |
| ali1234 | Texrat: i will stop beating about the bush | 18:52 |
| ali1234 | it's really this simple | 18:52 |
| Texrat | ali1234 your challenges are welcome | 18:52 |
| maligor | actually the biggest change that could happen is getting rid of obs raelly | 18:52 |
| ali1234 | all the people complaining about compliance and community adaptations need to make a fork of meego with the branding removed | 18:52 |
| lcuk | Hey @noteslate, I bet my software will run on your hardware. Got any kind of a prototype device program? Who would I contact? DM me. http://twitter.com/lcuk/status/80586003512950784 | 18:52 |
| ali1234 | all the people complaining about RPM vs DEB need to make a fork of meego | 18:52 |
| maligor | obs is just such a large overhead for single developers | 18:52 |
| lcuk | ^^^ Texrat outreach to them and get me a device to test meego+liqbase on | 18:52 |
| ali1234 | all the people complaining about X need to make a fork of meego | 18:52 |
| Texrat | ali1234 i agree branding is a dilemma, and it's on my list of things to keep hammering on | 18:52 |
| ali1234 | pretty much every single complaint i have ever read about meego can be solved by forking the damn thing | 18:53 |
| ali1234 | so i wonder why there isn't a fork, and just a community of people complaining | 18:53 |
| Texrat | lcuk I could use you as a device champion for that ;) | 18:53 |
| lcuk | Texrat, funded? | 18:53 |
| dm8tbr | ali1234: the problem is that you can't even call it meego even if you remove the branding | 18:53 |
| Texrat | ali1234 the default is to avoid a fork and instead push for process and project improvements | 18:53 |
| lcuk | and you know I would | 18:54 |
| ali1234 | Texrat: and that's what i don't understand | 18:54 |
| Texrat | lcuk explain "funded" | 18:54 |
| dm8tbr | Texrat: if you are on the CO you might want to push bug 13516 | 18:54 |
| lcuk | I need a device with pen input I can put between me and my keyboard | 18:54 |
| MeeGoBot | Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13516 nor, Undecided, ---, brian.warner, ASSI, Proposal: Allow MeeGo trademark usage in form of "<X>, a MeeGo R&D project" | 18:54 |
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| ali1234 | Texrat: pushing for process and project improvements has never ever worked in the past | 18:54 |
| lcuk | Texrat, not so long until I need a contract renewal | 18:54 |
| Texrat | dm8tbr my focus will be on community ptocess, particularly devices | 18:54 |
| * lcuk notes still waiting for pay from april | 18:54 | |
| ali1234 | it's not just that it has never worked with meego | 18:54 |
| dm8tbr | Texrat: then this is right up your alley | 18:54 |
| Texrat | ali1234 that is untrue. I have had success there | 18:54 |
| dm8tbr | Texrat: as none of the devices you hand out would be allowed to associate with meego unless they are fully compliant | 18:55 |
| Texrat | sorry lcuk, no pay :P | 18:55 |
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| Texrat | dm8tbr that isn't actually true | 18:55 |
| ali1234 | you may have 1 or 2 small victories. there is no successfuly product where it has happened on a large scale | 18:55 |
| lcuk | Texrat, find out who at noteslate to contact and whether it can be an official meego device program request and I will happily champion it | 18:55 |
| lcuk | since they seem to have hardware without an os | 18:55 |
| ali1234 | possibly you could count mozilla | 18:55 |
| lcuk | and I only know one environment that can do some of the things they have proposed | 18:56 |
| Texrat | or let me say "necessarily" true | 18:56 |
| Texrat | lcuk, please add as a proposal to wiki | 18:56 |
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| dm8tbr | Texrat: well http://bug10738.openaos.org/ exists for a reason and that is that people here have threatened to involve the LF and lawsuits... | 18:56 |
| lcuk | to any page of the wiki, or somewhere in particular? | 18:56 |
| MeeGoBot | Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10738 nor, Undecided, ---, tero.kojo, NEED, Meego community ftp server or similar needed | 18:56 |
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| Texrat | http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Office/Community_device_program | 18:56 |
| Texrat | lcuk don't be silly you twit :P | 18:56 |
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| ali1234 | i think the problem is that people have become so caught up in the idea of selling FOSS to business that they've lost track of what FOSS actually stands for | 18:57 |
| lcuk | Texrat, http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Office/Community_device_program#Platforms.2FDevices | 18:57 |
| * lcuk serious | 18:58 | |
| ali1234 | why do you all think it is so important for nokia and intel to adopt FOSS when you can't even use the end result because of trademarks? | 18:58 |
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| lcuk | n8x0/n900 for pocket use, noteslate for on my desk and ideapad/slate for on the wall | 18:58 |
| lcuk | yummy combination | 18:58 |
| Texrat | thanks lcuk | 18:58 |
| maligor | noteslate? | 18:59 |
| Texrat | sorry, my current shitty job has gotten in the way of getting caught up even on my own wiki pages | 18:59 |
| lcuk | black and white pen driven slate | 18:59 |
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| Texrat | that should change soon | 18:59 |
| lcuk | not low reolution capacitive \o/ | 18:59 |
| lcuk | REAL handwriting on slate formfactor | 18:59 |
| lcuk | for grown ups to use :) | 18:59 |
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| maligor | lcuk, ah, not little boys like me | 18:59 |
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| lcuk | you can use it too | 18:59 |
| lcuk | if you think computers are too technical | 19:00 |
| lcuk | :) | 19:00 |
| maligor | Well... I've hacked bootloaders out of curiosity | 19:00 |
| lcuk | good, can you fix ali1234s bug about mbrs and bootloaders? | 19:01 |
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| lcuk | bug 12816 | 19:01 |
| MeeGoBot | Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=12816 enh, Undecided, ---, gavin.hindman, NEW, [FEA] No option to install without bootloader step | 19:01 |
| ali1234 | lcuk: like all bugs in meego, the only people who can fix it are the ones that have access to the core OBS | 19:01 |
| Texrat | dm8tbr I voted for both bugs | 19:01 |
| maligor | that's a installer bug :P | 19:01 |
| lcuk | sigh ali1234 | 19:01 |
| lcuk | maligor, it is bootloader installation phase though | 19:02 |
| lcuk | if you can add input ali1234 might stop whining | 19:02 |
| dm8tbr | Texrat: thanks :) | 19:02 |
| Texrat | ali1234 that's not true of all bugs in MeeGo | 19:02 |
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| ali1234 | fixing it only require reverting the patch that someone made to specifically remove the functionality | 19:02 |
| ali1234 | Texrat: yes it is, by definition | 19:02 |
| Texrat | no it isn't | 19:02 |
| ali1234 | Texrat: anyone can supply a patch, but someone with OBS access must accept it | 19:02 |
| ali1234 | otherwise it does not go in meego | 19:02 |
| Texrat | there are many PROCESS bugs | 19:02 |
| ali1234 | just like the old x86 support | 19:03 |
| ali1234 | all we hear from on high is "well send patches" | 19:03 |
| Texrat | maybe we are talking two different hings: I mean that not all bugs in bugs.meego.com involve OS, hence OBS | 19:03 |
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| ali1234 | sending patches that do nothing except revert changes made specifically by intel are obviously not going to be accepted | 19:03 |
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| ali1234 | so why even ask for them? | 19:03 |
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| Texrat | there were website bugs, process bugs, etc | 19:03 |
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| ali1234 | unless you're just using process in order to drive people away | 19:04 |
| Texrat | I'm certainly not | 19:04 |
| ali1234 | not you | 19:04 |
| ali1234 | the people who say "well send a patch" | 19:04 |
| Texrat | I understand your cynicism, but it is borderline antagonism ;) | 19:04 |
| ali1234 | knowing full well that the patch won't be accepted | 19:04 |
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| Texrat | ali1234 all I can say is that there are many who are fighting the status quo | 19:05 |
| ali1234 | but why? | 19:05 |
| Texrat | giving up is not an option | 19:05 |
| ali1234 | why do you fight it? | 19:05 |
| ali1234 | giving up most certainly *is* an option | 19:05 |
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| Texrat | I don't understand | 19:05 |
| Texrat | I am fighting against the sort of problem you cite | 19:05 |
| Texrat | ie, status quo | 19:05 |
| ali1234 | at the end of the day, what is it that you expect to achieve by converting meego to an entirely open process? | 19:05 |
| Texrat | a different ecosystem | 19:06 |
| ali1234 | if the only thing you expect to achieve is "make people like ali1234 happy" | 19:06 |
| Texrat | no, that's not enough | 19:06 |
| ali1234 | then you're wasting your time, because i will never be happy | 19:06 |
| maligor | maybe intel will loosen the reins once they get their products out | 19:06 |
| Texrat | that's possible maligori | 19:06 |
| ali1234 | let me put it another way | 19:06 |
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| Texrat | and guys, understand this: Intel's CPU business WANTS an open ecosystem | 19:07 |
| ali1234 | why do you try to make meego be more open, instead of trying to persuade android to be more open? | 19:07 |
| ali1234 | or for that matter, microsoft? | 19:07 |
| Texrat | because ali1234 meeGo is more likely to comply | 19:07 |
| SpeedEvil | Because android is not very embedded-friendly | 19:07 |
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| Texrat | MeeGo has the most promise for being the most open | 19:07 |
| alterego | Because Android is lame :) | 19:07 |
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| maligor | meego is made out more out of community components in the first place | 19:07 |
| ali1234 | why not just start at a point of complete openness, and join debian? | 19:08 |
| maligor | debian isn't a embedded distro | 19:08 |
| alterego | Anyway, Android will never be more open, it's a Google project for Google. | 19:08 |
| Texrat | ali1234 i can see that, but then how do you get mobility in? that was the original issue | 19:08 |
| Texrat | plus as maligori said | 19:08 |
| ali1234 | ok then, openmoko? | 19:08 |
| Texrat | openmoko suffered political issues | 19:09 |
| alterego | openmoko is too heavily fragmented | 19:09 |
| Texrat | again: MeeGo has the best potential | 19:09 |
| bergie | there were like 6+ distros for openmoko freerunner | 19:09 |
| alterego | They didnt' have a clear focus when it came to the software and it executed badly. | 19:09 |
| maligor | There is however OpenEmbedded and derivates | 19:09 |
| lcuk | rather than open, a cleaner more desirable thing which is accessibility. having accessible processes, easy learning curve, simple methods and low barrier to participation with feedback | 19:09 |
| maligor | like Angstrom | 19:09 |
| alterego | open embedded doesn't specify API requirements. | 19:09 |
| ali1234 | you know | 19:09 |
| alterego | Suggesting OE is like suggesting build root :P | 19:10 |
| maligor | alterego, well, no, it's not really that kind of target | 19:10 |
| ali1234 | both OE and buildroot are easier to use than OBS | 19:10 |
| Texrat | ali1234 if you are determined to never be convinced, why keep asking? ;) | 19:10 |
| alterego | maligor: exactly, and MeeGo is, we're working on a unified platform which can target multiple vertical targets. | 19:10 |
| maligor | OBS isn't actually difficult to use | 19:10 |
| alterego | ali1234: bullshit | 19:10 |
| ali1234 | Texrat: i dunno, that's kind of the same question i am asking you isn't it? ;) | 19:11 |
| alterego | I've used all three and obs is the easiest .. | 19:11 |
| Texrat | ali1234 I can't answer that for you. No one can but you ;) | 19:11 |
| maligor | buildroot is easier than OBS :P | 19:11 |
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| ali1234 | well, i've used all three and OE is the easiest | 19:11 |
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| maligor | OE is just weird | 19:11 |
| Texrat | oh noes! build system religious war!!! | 19:11 |
| alterego | maligor: build root should be called "I don't fucking work" :P | 19:11 |
| Texrat | it's DEB vs RPM all over again!!!! | 19:11 |
| * Texrat runs screaming | 19:11 | |
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| maligor | the bitbake in OE is insanely complex to configure | 19:11 |
| plautius | http://thenokiablog.com/2011/05/11/nokia-meego-developer-device/ Nokia MeeGo Developer Device to be Announced June 2011 | 19:11 |
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| * alterego sighs | 19:12 | |
| maligor | alterego, I've used it several times to make very nice tiny setups | 19:12 |
| Texrat | I think vi is better than edlin | 19:12 |
| ali1234 | always with the religious wars and then we wonder why intel and nokia don't want to listen to the community | 19:12 |
| plautius | is this device annoynced? | 19:12 |
| maligor | alterego, I think they all have their strong points and weak points | 19:12 |
| Texrat | Nokia quit listening officially ;) | 19:12 |
| plautius | announced | 19:12 |
| alterego | maligor: I have too, and more often than not, it would fail. | 19:12 |
| ali1234 | plautius: maybe it was announced while we were all busy arguing, but i don't think so | 19:12 |
| alterego | plautius: no, go away :P | 19:13 |
| Texrat | ali1234 = argument center :P | 19:13 |
| plautius | ok tahnk you | 19:13 |
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| maligor | as long as the embedded platform has vim, all is fine | 19:13 |
| Texrat | lol | 19:13 |
| alterego | maligor: vi :P | 19:13 |
| ali1234 | Texrat: i no rite | 19:13 |
| * timoph sits back and follows yet another pointless argument while having a delicious sandwitch | 19:13 | |
| alterego | besides real men edit in ed | 19:13 |
| Texrat | edlin | 19:13 |
| maligor | ? | 19:13 |
| alterego | Or sed | 19:14 |
| Texrat | DOS EDIT! | 19:14 |
| * Texrat ducks for cover | 19:14 | |
| alterego | Or just cat like me. | 19:14 |
| alterego | :) | 19:14 |
| maligor | (I hope noone takes that as me being confused, ed is ?) | 19:14 |
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| Texrat | oh hi timoph | 19:14 |
| timoph | o/ | 19:14 |
| alterego | maligor: don't worry P | 19:14 |
| berndhs | maligor: /bin/ed | 19:15 |
| Texrat | real men use hex editors | 19:15 |
| ali1234 | so judging from how this degenerated into an argument about /technical merits/ of each distro i'm assuming that you all picked meego because you think it will be easier to fix that project processes than to fix the technical problems with other distros? | 19:15 |
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| Texrat | or punch binary holes in cards | 19:15 |
| Texrat | that's my answer ali1234 | 19:15 |
| SpeedEvil | I'm here for the shiny hardware. | 19:15 |
| lcuk | timoph, what is on your sandwich? | 19:15 |
| Texrat | I'm here for the donuts and coffee | 19:15 |
| SpeedEvil | It's the last best hope for open mobile hardware. | 19:15 |
| Texrat | still waiting | 19:15 |
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| lcuk | I had cheese on toast earlier | 19:15 |
| ali1234 | well that seems odd to me | 19:15 |
| timoph | lcuk: cheese, cucumber and butter | 19:16 |
| ali1234 | i would rather fix technical issues and not worry about political drama, really | 19:16 |
| lcuk | mmm | 19:16 |
| ali1234 | but the thing is | 19:16 |
| ali1234 | i'm not getting support from intel to do that | 19:16 |
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| ali1234 | intel/nokia etc | 19:16 |
| ali1234 | and im'm also not getting support from the community | 19:17 |
| ali1234 | because the community is trying to fix political problems | 19:17 |
| lcuk | ahem | 19:17 |
| ali1234 | so what now? | 19:17 |
| maligor | what technical issues? | 19:17 |
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| ali1234 | maligor: like the bugs i've been pasting here all day long | 19:17 |
| lcuk | ali1234, I thought our little discussion at least started it | 19:17 |
| maligor | ali1234, oh, ok | 19:17 |
| ali1234 | lcuk: no, it's the same discussion i get whenever i bring up any bug | 19:17 |
| maligor | developers love bugs | 19:17 |
| timoph | yeah. we make them all the time | 19:18 |
| lcuk | ali1234, which of the 18000 or so bugs should be prioritised? | 19:18 |
| ali1234 | lcuk: i don't mind what intel does | 19:18 |
| ali1234 | lcuk: what annoys me is that the community (except for about 5 people) seems to show no interest in getting bugs fixed | 19:18 |
| ali1234 | they would rather complain about how meego processes are not open enough | 19:19 |
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| lcuk | ali1234, they are as passionate about getting their bugs fixed as you are | 19:19 |
| ali1234 | like i said way up^ i don't have a problem with how intel and nokia "contribute" | 19:19 |
| kaitlin_ | w00t: Ping? | 19:20 |
| lcuk | their bugs might be processes, yours are technical | 19:20 |
| lcuk | but different people care about different things | 19:20 |
| Texrat | ali1234 we have to address tech AND politics. No escaping it with ANY distro | 19:20 |
| maligor | ali1234, people tend to prioritize bugs that match their own projects, meego is big | 19:20 |
| lcuk | which is good if we can align everybody up | 19:20 |
| ali1234 | meego isn't *that* big | 19:20 |
| lcuk | so the right people can fix the right bugs | 19:20 |
| ali1234 | it's not debian for example | 19:20 |
| npm | IMHO, the biggest problem MeeGo has is a a lack of dogfooding among the developers. IMHO, at this stage, devs should be using meego to develop meego apps, not other distros. | 19:20 |
| Texrat | ali1234 MeeGo has big *scope* | 19:20 |
| lcuk | npm, I use meego every day | 19:21 |
| ali1234 | oh hai npm :) | 19:21 |
| lcuk | n900 is just getting contacts importing | 19:21 |
| Texrat | agreed npm | 19:21 |
| npm | how come, at recent conference, i was one of the few using a meego netbook as my only computer | 19:21 |
| Texrat | npm I was using mine too! | 19:21 |
| npm | and saw plenty of intel devs using macs | 19:21 |
| * Texrat loves his Lenovo | 19:21 | |
| maligor | I would've probably used debian | 19:21 |
| lcuk | npm, disheartened after dublin to hear so many people installing other oses on them | 19:21 |
| Texrat | yeah I wondered about the Mac use too | 19:21 |
| lcuk | that really grated with me | 19:21 |
| dm8tbr | meego tries to be that 'linux business thing' and fails at being community thing although it seems to say all the time 'community community community' | 19:22 |
| lcuk | since they were specific meego devices from meego conf | 19:22 |
| Texrat | I disagree dm8tbr but then we have different perspectives | 19:22 |
| pebcak | npm maybe it's because there are things to dislike in meego? | 19:22 |
| ali1234 | dm8tbr: exactly. in terms of politics the only difference between android and meego is that at least google is honest about what you can expect from android "community" | 19:22 |
| npm | well that's the biggest problem. that, and getting all manner of push-back when i try to make it useable and useful with http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo-Lem | 19:22 |
| Texrat | oh please ali1234 | 19:22 |
| Texrat | Google DICTATES | 19:22 |
| lcuk | pebcak, those should be turned into the next version then | 19:22 |
| ali1234 | Texrat: so what? | 19:23 |
| ali1234 | why is that a problem? | 19:23 |
| pebcak | ali1234 why? the license problems indicate dm8tbr is right | 19:23 |
| dm8tbr | npm: cardinal mistake, you used the word 'meego' naughty you... | 19:23 |
| npm | pebcak: if there's things to dislike in meego, they'd get fixed pretty fast if people had no alternative | 19:23 |
| pebcak | lcuk npm what if I dislike rpm? | 19:23 |
| pebcak | :) | 19:23 |
| npm | IMHO "management" needs to dictate "thou shalt use meego to dev meego" and then problems get solved | 19:23 |
| Texrat | ali1234 if it isn't a problem for you then it isn't a problem. I'm not here to convert you to my thinking | 19:24 |
| maligor | the only dislike about rpm I personally have is that it has a tendency to corrupt it's own state | 19:24 |
| ali1234 | Texrat: all distros dictate to their users | 19:24 |
| lcuk | i guarantee 99.9% of real people do not give a damn what rpm or deb or sis or installshield is | 19:24 |
| * lcuk is among them | 19:24 | |
| Texrat | so ali1234 i'm starting to see your questions as mostly rhetorical and academic rather than wanting to learn | 19:24 |
| lcuk | what I care about is a simple way to make any of them | 19:24 |
| npm | most people expect a graphical installer and it wouldn't matter if stuff is distributed in tar.gz format | 19:24 |
| lcuk | a magic button "Make me a package" | 19:25 |
| npm | who cares about the underlying crap... it's what's on top that people notice | 19:25 |
| pebcak | lcuk 99% of real people give a shit about meego on a device they got on a conference which isn't working for them with that | 19:25 |
| pebcak | :D | 19:25 |
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| pebcak | hf | 19:25 |
| maligor | npm, like shiny buttons with fancy animations | 19:25 |
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| ali1234 | Texrat: the only thing i want to learn is why you think that meego would be *improved* if it's processes worked the way you want them to | 19:25 |
| npm | unfortunately yes. | 19:25 |
| lcuk | npm :) source installation is a pipedream | 19:25 |
| lcuk | at least for the specific meego stuff | 19:26 |
| * Texrat notes shift in cynical-to-openminded ratio that now favors cynics :P | 19:26 | |
| * dm8tbr failed horribly at setting up a working development environment for meego on all the computers he tried so far | 19:26 | |
| lcuk | so we need obs and binary repos | 19:26 |
| Texrat | ali1234 no offense, but I get the sense you're not really receptive to what I have to say | 19:26 |
| lcuk | s/I/anyone/ | 19:26 |
| Texrat | dm8tbr Qt runs fine on my MeeGo lenovo | 19:26 |
| maligor | ali1234, work processes are highly important to attract new developers | 19:27 |
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| alterego | Texrat: ali1234 is always trolling :P | 19:27 |
| alterego | I wonder why he's even here most of the time. | 19:27 |
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| Texrat | alterego I was hoping to get that answered ;) | 19:27 |
| alterego | But he does play a good devils' advocate occasionally. | 19:27 |
| dm8tbr | Texrat: my use case was: follow some QML example and make it deploy it to a meego device | 19:27 |
| Texrat | yes alterego we do need to be challenged | 19:28 |
| dm8tbr | Texrat: fail, fail, fail, even more fail when I tried to bring QtMobility into the picture | 19:28 |
| Texrat | I don't want to just defend MeeGo-- I want to know where real opportunities for improvement are | 19:28 |
| berndhs | "what is the use case" is right up there with "send a patch" :P | 19:28 |
| alterego | Damnit, I just drew a sketch of a handset ux, and it looks like Android. | 19:28 |
| maligor | dm8tbr, I've used all those just fine | 19:28 |
| * alterego screws it up and throws it in the bin. | 19:28 | |
| alterego | "next!" | 19:28 |
| dm8tbr | maligor: you have deployed a _pure_ qml example from creator to a device? | 19:29 |
| Texrat | so how about those Dallas Mavericks? :D | 19:29 |
| maligor | dm8tbr, yes | 19:29 |
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| Texrat | lol alterego. getting hard to truly differentiate with UX/UI these days | 19:29 |
| * Texrat braces for onslaught of UX/UI lawsuits | 19:30 | |
| dm8tbr | maligor: then you might be able to add some pointers/content here - http://wiki.meego.com/SDK/Beginners_guide_how_to_get_started | 19:30 |
| lcuk | Texrat, :) | 19:30 |
| lcuk | cannot get more differentiated than it being in your own handwriting. | 19:30 |
| Texrat | liqUId for the win! | 19:30 |
| maligor | dm8tbr, I don't have a reference at hand, and it was a while back, but let's see | 19:30 |
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| dm8tbr | maligor: e.g. qmlviewer does NOT work with qtmobility (and you need that if you want e.g. sound) | 19:31 |
| maligor | well, no, you don't really want to use qmlviewer | 19:31 |
| maligor | dm8tbr, is it just for testing? or full deployment? | 19:32 |
| alterego | qmlviewer does work with mobility .. | 19:32 |
| dm8tbr | well but that's what QtCreator defaults to if you create a pure QML project | 19:32 |
| alterego | O_O | 19:32 |
| maligor | I think meego-qml-launcher --app app-name | 19:32 |
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| maligor | if the app-name is path in /usr/share/app-name | 19:32 |
| maligor | and it loads main.qml | 19:32 |
| dm8tbr | maligor: the qmlviewer was just to get started and test | 19:32 |
| maligor | qmlviewer doesn't really work correctly | 19:33 |
| jargon- | i don't know if this is too offtopic,but where could i buy a new n900 online that's not amazon and what is considered a fair price? i saw one for $500+ and that seemed a bit steep | 19:33 |
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| dm8tbr | alterego: orly? because when I tried to use something out of qtmultimediakit it barfed at me | 19:33 |
| Texrat | alterego i really enjoyed the MeeGo debate at talk.maemo :D | 19:33 |
| lcuk | jargon-, I saw it on a nokia site just a few days ago | 19:33 |
| dm8tbr | maligor: and I was under the asumption it would work as that is what it defaulted to! | 19:33 |
| jargon- | lcuk: nokia.com? | 19:33 |
| lcuk | cant remember | 19:33 |
| lcuk | if it wasn't @nokia it was a damn good knock off of the site | 19:34 |
| maligor | dm8tbr, well, I think it should work with qtmobility, it just might have issues with some other mechanisms in meego | 19:34 |
| npm | speaking of meego-qml-launcher, how does one invoke it through qtcreator so that you can test your progs w/o installing them in /usr/share/meego-app-* | 19:34 |
| jargon- | lcuk: ok | 19:34 |
| dm8tbr | maligor: it took me a week of asking around and wasting people's time to arrive to the conclusion that this was just an undocumented steaming pile of bullcrap | 19:34 |
| Texrat | lcuk I will have to change your Noteslate entry on the wiki | 19:34 |
| jargon- | lcuk: what price? | 19:34 |
| alterego | Texrat: yeah, I was getting a bit short near the end, kind of out of lack of food, lack of sleep, and boredom. | 19:34 |
| lcuk | Texrat, please feel free to change whatever, that is just a desire | 19:34 |
| alterego | So I think my last few posts came across as being a bit incoherent and quite rude | 19:34 |
| dm8tbr | maligor: I tried both with the windows and linux sdks and qtcreator, no dice | 19:34 |
| npm | aka how do people dev meeg-ux apps with qtcreator without installing to test? | 19:35 |
| Texrat | lcuk you added it as a category rather than device under an existing category ;) | 19:35 |
| lcuk | if they want me to test stuff I will | 19:35 |
| andyross | npm: I don't think you can. Where do you want to test them from? Can't you just make a symlink? | 19:35 |
| Texrat | no alterego you were fine | 19:35 |
| lcuk | Texrat, noteslate is its own category | 19:35 |
| lcuk | pen driven, black and white | 19:35 |
| lcuk | etc | 19:35 |
| Texrat | lcuk not really. | 19:35 |
| npm | andyross: i want to test from my source directory. | 19:35 |
| dm8tbr | maligor: and I never managed to make it work manually as trying to run qmlviewer on tabletUx just made it go all grey | 19:35 |
| lcuk | reall | 19:35 |
| lcuk | y | 19:35 |
| Texrat | lcuk it will fit under one of the other broad categories | 19:35 |
| npm | as it is, i just made /usr/share/meego-app-npm writable by me and just dev "in place" | 19:35 |
| * lcuk recalls first ever liqbase | 19:35 | |
| alterego | Texrat: cool, I might get drunk tonight and see if I can offend someone :P | 19:35 |
| lcuk | ahhh greyscale | 19:35 |
| lcuk | :) | 19:35 |
| npm | but it's kinda yucky | 19:35 |
| lcuk | Texrat, fit it wherever | 19:36 |
| lcuk | but try and make contact with the team | 19:36 |
| lcuk | outreach ;) | 19:36 |
| andyross | Why yucky? Directories are directories. | 19:36 |
| Texrat | I will lcuk but you are also encouraged to as well ;) | 19:36 |
| lcuk | Texrat, for sure | 19:36 |
| npm | released directories shouldn't have revision control stuff in them, for one | 19:36 |
| alterego | tonight is beer and curry night | 19:36 |
| alterego | My girlfriend is out of the country for the next couple of days. | 19:36 |
| Texrat | my hope is to mostly focus on coordination and let device champions contribute | 19:37 |
| alterego | What is a "device champion" ? | 19:37 |
| lcuk | nod | 19:37 |
| npm | i could run the apps in qmlviewer but they don't behave same as with meego-qml-launcher | 19:37 |
| Texrat | damn alterego that is awful nice of you to spare her | 19:37 |
| lcuk | alterego, | 19:37 |
| npm | basicaly i just want to hit the "run" button in qtcreator and run my meego-ux app | 19:37 |
| alterego | Good ridance, I get to code in peace ;) | 19:37 |
| lcuk | hacktivate: sleeping arrangements? | 19:37 |
| lcuk | camping in the offices? | 19:37 |
| alterego | lcuk: I have none. | 19:38 |
| Texrat | alterego a device champion is anyone who wants to be a patron for any device in community device program | 19:38 |
| lcuk | like barcamp? | 19:38 |
| Texrat | defined on wiki | 19:38 |
| andyross | npm: I'm still not understanding what your actual problem is. You just don't like the aesthetics of writing code in a some place under /usr on the device tree? | 19:38 |
| alterego | lcuk: I was probably going to do an all nighter yeah. | 19:38 |
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| alterego | lcuk: could ask on twitter? | 19:38 |
| lcuk | alterego, roger | 19:38 |
| lcuk | you can i am heavily busy here and elsewhere | 19:38 |
| alterego | m'kay | 19:38 |
| lcuk | I have to find money for the train yet | 19:38 |
| alterego | Me too | 19:38 |
| alterego | I just paid the rent. | 19:38 |
| npm | no, it's that i cant debug it in qtcreator, nor edit/compile/test "in place" | 19:38 |
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| alterego | And I just had to wire 200 quid to my girlfriend, who is abroad. | 19:39 |
| * lcuk notes there is less money in my bank account today than at any time ever in the history of mankind | 19:39 | |
| andyross | I know zilch about qtcreator, but why not? Again, that's what symlinks are for. | 19:39 |
| alterego | Because she took too much bloody luggage and spent 2/3s of the money I have her originally -_- | 19:39 |
| npm | isn't qtcreator how we're supposed to dev qt apps? | 19:39 |
| alterego | s/have/gave/ | 19:39 |
| infobot | alterego meant: Because she took too much bloody luggage and spent 2/3s of the money I gave her originally -_- | 19:39 |
| lcuk | yes npm | 19:39 |
| maligor | dm8tbr, yeah, the qmlviewer works in mysterious ways on tablet ux | 19:39 |
| maligor | dm8tbr, that's more or less what I meant | 19:39 |
| maligor | it does work, but... | 19:40 |
| lcuk | infact, bbl my head melting | 19:40 |
| npm | and since meego-ux apps are qt/qml, one would expect to do all the dev in qtcreator... | 19:40 |
| lcuk | it has been a lively, active afternoon have enjoyed it \o | 19:40 |
| dm8tbr | maligor: jftr for the desktop qmlviewer - http://bugreports.qt.nokia.com/browse/QTSDK-419 | 19:40 |
| maligor | dm8tbr, also did you use meego-components? | 19:40 |
| dm8tbr | maligor: uh-what? is that some pixiedust that makes stuff work? | 19:41 |
| andyross | QML is a source format. You're "supposed" to use an editor. qtcreator is one. Certainly not the only option. Can you be more specific why it can't be made to work? Can't you just make a symlink to the /usr/share/<app> tree as your project directory? | 19:41 |
| maligor | dm8tbr, no, it's a qml component set available on meego | 19:41 |
| npm | qtcreator is an IDE. I edit in emacs | 19:42 |
| maligor | andyross, I feel ashamed, I used vim | 19:42 |
| dm8tbr | maligor: yeah, well that would be on the device, never got that far... | 19:42 |
| npm | andyross: 'its text just use an editor" is a very uninviting "development story" than what Android devs or IOS devs are given... | 19:43 |
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| Texrat | oh no! I'm having to work | 19:43 |
| maligor | dm8tbr, you mean just writing simple qml? | 19:43 |
| andyross | I'm still not understanding what your problem is. But regardless: check meego-qml-launcher/src/launcherwindow.cpp:242. The /usr/share directory is hardcoded there, but you could certainly provide a patch to read it from an environment variable to override, etc... | 19:44 |
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| npm | it's that meego-ux is hard to develop with because there's no integration/packaging/debug/test suport in qtcreator | 19:45 |
| * alterego contemplates what movie to watch tonight. | 19:45 | |
| maligor | npm, oh, I found it quite easy | 19:45 |
| npm | maybe i need to install Intel SDK and not qtcreator? | 19:45 |
| andyross | OK... then I have no response to that other than to generally agree with you that the SDK needs a ton of work. I thought you had a specific problem that required running an app out of a directory other than the default. | 19:46 |
| maligor | npm, well, I wrote it in vim | 19:46 |
| npm | it's just that i put my deployed code in /usr/share but when i'm working on it, it's in my source directory | 19:46 |
| dm8tbr | maligor: qt-creator offers you conveniently a basic qml tuotorial | 19:46 |
| dm8tbr | maligor: my mistake was that I believed that it would get me anywhere | 19:47 |
| npm | and there shouldn't be uneccessary edit/compile/deploy steps in an IDE where you are doing rapid prototyping | 19:47 |
| alterego | Texrat: do you happen to know any good documents on UX design principles? | 19:47 |
| andyross | And my response about symlinks (like, directories that can be in more than one place at once!) wasn't sufficient? I know it's complicated by the chroot, but really this isn't a hard problem. | 19:47 |
| npm | just edit->run | 19:47 |
| maligor | dm8tbr, well, I made a simple painter app that used qml, albeit it's not as simple as it used to be anymore | 19:47 |
| alterego | Texrat: don't know whether that's in your field? | 19:47 |
| maligor | dm8tbr, so it might not be a very good reference | 19:47 |
| Texrat | alterego it's not in my field, but I have run across good whitepapers... | 19:47 |
| Texrat | just don't recall where offhand | 19:48 |
| Texrat | alterego you can search slideshare.net | 19:48 |
| npm | well i can always hack, but last i checked, google doesn't require people putting in manual symlinks for andoid testing. | 19:48 |
| maligor | mostly because I packaged it into a binary instead of all qml | 19:48 |
| alterego | thanks | 19:48 |
| lcuk | maligor, pure qml painting? | 19:48 |
| maligor | no, it implements a c++ component | 19:49 |
| lcuk | alterego, there are a load of really good documents based on the maemo ux meets code meetup | 19:49 |
| andyross | npm: I give up. I'm trying to give you help with MeeGo. If you want to grouse about the SDK, pick a different target. Or better: submit bug reports and feature requests. | 19:49 |
| lcuk | everything should be linked from there afaik | 19:49 |
| maligor | pure qml painting isn't really possible :P | 19:49 |
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| Texrat | gotta get back to work, later geeks | 19:50 |
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| alterego | caio | 19:50 |
| lcuk | http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo-Barcelona_Long_Weekend | 19:50 |
| lcuk | alterego, people to poke, presentations given etc | 19:50 |
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| lcuk | should all be available from there | 19:50 |
| alterego | Cool, thanks. | 19:50 |
| npm | andyross: thanks for the help... the issue is that most people don't grouse or file bug reports. they just give up and use what's easy. i'm not most people.... | 19:50 |
| maligor | what's "grousing"? | 19:51 |
| lcuk | maligor, then how can you call it a QML app? | 19:51 |
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| maligor | lcuk, because the gui itself is qml, aside from the paint component :P | 19:51 |
| andyross | maligor: synonym for "complaining", with the connotation that it's generally unhelpful :) | 19:52 |
| lcuk | so everything except the important bit | 19:52 |
| npm | complaining for the point of complaining, which i'm not doing. i'm hitting the same kind of rough spots other people are undoubtedly hitting | 19:52 |
| maligor | I usually analyze and try to help to get it fixed | 19:52 |
| lcuk | maligor, could the painting component become a standard piece? | 19:53 |
| lcuk | so then it is fully qml usable by all | 19:53 |
| maligor | lcuk, theoretically, but haven't worked on it for a while | 19:53 |
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| maligor | at one point the paint component was a external library | 19:53 |
| maligor | it was mostly a learning experience into qml | 19:54 |
| lcuk | so what lessons did you learn from it? | 19:54 |
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| maligor | how to integrate c++ to qml | 19:54 |
| maligor | and how to write qml | 19:54 |
| lcuk | does the c++ component have all the same qml bits as normal? | 19:55 |
| lcuk | like animation support over properties exposed | 19:55 |
| lcuk | etc | 19:55 |
| * alterego has a look to see what's on the telly box tonight. | 19:55 | |
| maligor | lcuk, didn't actually try to animate it | 19:55 |
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| maligor | it's built ontop of the qml base component | 19:56 |
| maligor | which is similar but not quite a QWidget | 19:56 |
| lcuk | cool | 19:57 |
| DawnFoster | MeeGo Events meeting starting now in #meego-meeting | 19:59 |
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| XwZ | hi | 20:00 |
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| * npm notes http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/source/q/qmltube/qmltube_0.6.5.tar.gz compiles and runs nicely on MeeGO | 20:22 | |
| * npm investigates dropping in its implementation in place of my own for panel http://nielsmayer.com/meego/tab/meego-ux-panels-youtube.png | 20:23 | |
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| npm | but how does one turn a toplevel qml app into a panel... does all the C++ need to become plugins? | 20:24 |
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| maligor | npm, I haven't looked at specifics, but yeah, all c++ would have to become plugins | 20:29 |
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| Stskeeps | qt5 2 - 0 stskeeps | 20:30 |
| * Stskeeps fails at building it. | 20:30 | |
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| npm | actually, it looks like all i'd need is some kind of C++ initializer hook and then the meego-ux equiv of viewer.setMainQmlFile(QLatin1String("qml/qmltube/main.qml")) to launch (it uses "qmlapplicationviewer") | 20:31 |
| berndhs | Stskeeps: where is it? maybe I want that failing experience too :) | 20:33 |
| Stskeeps | http://build.meego.com/package/live_build_log?arch=i586&package=qt5&project=home%3Acvm%3Awayland&repository=Trunk | 20:33 |
| * npm hopes /ux/meego-app-camera/plugin/components.cpp is right example to look at for C++ inits | 20:33 | |
| maligor | npm, err.. | 20:35 |
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| maligor | npm, 'a panel'? | 20:35 |
| npm | yes | 20:35 |
| maligor | npm, you mean the tablet ux panel view panel or some other panel? | 20:35 |
| npm | see http://nielsmayer.com/meego/tab/meego-ux-panels-youtube.png | 20:36 |
| npm | aka proof of concept 1 hr hack worked | 20:36 |
| maligor | so the tablet ux | 20:36 |
| npm | however no point in reinventing the wheel if cutetube-qml already did all the heavy lifting | 20:36 |
| maligor | look up meego-ux-panels | 20:38 |
| maligor | and panelsrc under it | 20:38 |
| maligor | incase you're curious and don't want to give up | 20:39 |
| npm | well that's how i did my first panel | 20:39 |
| npm | already | 20:39 |
| maligor | oh, ok, so you just want to import c++ objects into it? | 20:39 |
| npm | yes, http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/source/q/qmltube/qmltube_0.6.5.tar.gz | 20:40 |
| npm | as a panel | 20:40 |
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| maligor | don't actually have meego stuff on my home computer, so, this is mostly from memory | 20:40 |
| maligor | mm..no, remembered wrong | 20:41 |
| npm | two of my home computers are meego, the others three fedora . | 20:41 |
| maligor | I have 3 debians | 20:41 |
| npm | actually, when my n900 is running meego, i'm even | 20:41 |
| npm | too bad maemo5 is so appealing :-) | 20:42 |
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| npm | so yeah it looks like making a component initializer at toplevel and adding that as a plugin will work. | 20:43 |
| maligor | mm? | 20:44 |
| maligor | I'm not sure what you're attempting anymore :P | 20:44 |
| maligor | there's a qml c++ plugin example under the name 'FolderListModel' | 20:45 |
| maligor | I imagine the way it's used int he panels would be identical except that the search path has to be right | 20:45 |
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| npm | i was looking at ux/meego-app-camera/plugin/components.cpp since that also needs to run a bunch of inits before app starts up | 20:46 |
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| maligor | interesting, I'll have to peek also | 20:47 |
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| maligor | what? g_type_init() ? :P | 20:48 |
| npm | well i'm always looking for help on this ... the previous panel is a result of integrating http://code.google.com/p/ytd-meego/source/browse/#svn%2Ftrunk%2Fplayground%2Fytapi-jsonviewer ... and i'll probably add the code i get as another dir in "playground' | 20:49 |
| maligor | that's just identical to the plugin.cpp in folderlistmodel example th | 20:49 |
| maligor | except the folderlistmodel doesn't specify the constructor | 20:49 |
| maligor | and a different macro I guess | 20:50 |
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| npm | i wish cutetube-qml was written as concicely and all-QML like my code | 20:50 |
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| maligor | perhaps qt5 will allow it to be entirely qml ;P | 20:50 |
| npm | i think it's just the result of porting an existing C++ proj | 20:51 |
| npm | starting from scratch, and using more efficient (and non-memory leaking and crash-causing) JSON feeds over RSS/ATOM | 20:51 |
| maligor | (was thinking video playback in qml) | 20:52 |
| maligor | not sure why I thought that would be in a qml panel | 20:52 |
| npm | video playback works ok in qtmobility | 20:52 |
| npm | i have difft prototype of that | 20:52 |
| npm | but doesn't work at all for most youtube vids | 20:52 |
| maligor | heh, cool | 20:52 |
| npm | but the youtube flash "leanback" viewer works quite nice and gives you all the features needed | 20:53 |
| npm | other than being flash suckage | 20:53 |
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| npm | http://code.google.com/p/ytd-meego/source/browse/#svn%2Ftrunk%2Fplayground%2Fytapi-jsonviewer has such a viewer built in | 20:54 |
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| maligor | the definition of flash is suckage, so you're statement "suckage suckage" makes no sense ;P | 20:54 |
| maligor | I hear horror stories about flash codebase | 20:55 |
| npm | the issue is that for a youtube viewer, many of the interesting videos are only avail in flash. plus feautures like annotation, captioning, etc are only in flash | 20:56 |
| npm | plus that's how they force you to watch adverts on "popular" videos | 20:56 |
| SpeedEvil | And tere is flash content elsewhere than youtube. | 20:57 |
| npm | that too, but i was specifically working on a youtube panel | 20:57 |
| npm | i think other providers would get their own panels once i figure out how to do youtube | 20:58 |
| npm | and then my trainspodder panel to tie it all together: http://nielsmayer.com/trainspodder-prototype.jpg | 20:59 |
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| ali1234 | anyone know why "zypper si" no longer works at all for any package? | 21:35 |
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| gabrbedd | ali1234: which source repo is enabled? (`zypper repos`) | 21:38 |
| ali1234 | gabrbedd: 1.2.0-oss-source and 1.2.0-updates-oss-source | 21:40 |
| gabrbedd | What does `zypper repos 1.2.0-oss-source` tell you? | 21:40 |
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| gabrbedd | Erm... what URL? | 21:40 |
| ali1234 | http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/releases/1.2.0/repos/oss/source | 21:41 |
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| gabrbedd | ali1234: are you running `zypper si` as root? | 21:42 |
| ali1234 | i have tried with and without, neither one works | 21:42 |
| gabrbedd | :-/ | 21:42 |
| gabrbedd | ali1234: What are your error messages? | 21:43 |
| ali1234 | none | 21:43 |
| ali1234 | it just exits without doing anything | 21:43 |
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| ali1234 | for example: http://pastebin.com/GmUXeQjB | 21:44 |
| ali1234 | after entering "y" it instantly exits with no error | 21:44 |
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| ali1234 | same for any package | 21:45 |
| ali1234 | so i'm wondering why my bug was closed "worksforme" when in fact it is even more broken than it was when i first reported it | 21:46 |
| gabrbedd | ali1234: Very odd. I can't explain. Looks like something is b0rked. | 21:46 |
| gabrbedd | ali1234: bug #? | 21:47 |
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| ali1234 | https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14307 | 21:47 |
| MeeGoBot | Bug 14307 nor, Medium, ---, kai.chai, RESO WORKSFORME, kernel build with rpmbuild fails during prep | 21:47 |
| ali1234 | now i can't even get as far as attempting to build the kernel | 21:47 |
| ali1234 | because it won't download the source package | 21:47 |
| ali1234 | so i can't actually check if that bug has been fixed or not | 21:48 |
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| gabrbedd | ali1234: Well, if they can't reproduce it... there's not much else they can do. | 21:50 |
| ali1234 | there's no way they could have successfully built the kernel using the steps i gave though | 21:50 |
| ali1234 | if you can do it i would be interested | 21:50 |
| ali1234 | or if you can give a valid reason why the steps i gave should not result in a properly built package | 21:51 |
| ali1234 | until then i will report a new bug against zypper, and then reopen the first bug, and set the new bug as a blocker | 21:51 |
| gabrbedd | ali1234: I'll test it... but it'll be a few hours before I can get to a meego device to do it. | 21:51 |
| ali1234 | any idea what product/component zypper bugs go in? | 21:51 |
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| gabrbedd | ali1234: Platform / OS Middleware / Package Management | 21:54 |
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| iekku | ali1234, you are still unable to do that? | 21:59 |
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| iekku | ali1234, with the latest release? | 21:59 |
| ali1234 | what? | 21:59 |
| ali1234 | the kernel thing? | 21:59 |
| ali1234 | with 1.2.0 i get this: https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19153 | 22:00 |
| MeeGoBot | Bug 19153 nor, Undecided, ---, qiang.z.zhang, NEW, zypper si does nothing. | 22:00 |
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| ali1234 | as such i am unable to reproduce the old kernel bug because it fails at an *earlier* point than it did before | 22:00 |
| ali1234 | or iow the problem got even worse | 22:01 |
| ali1234 | not better as the person claims | 22:01 |
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| iekku | ali1234, did you try the 14307 with the command told at comment 1 | 22:02 |
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| ali1234 | iekku: did you read my response in comment 2? | 22:03 |
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| iekku | ali1234, yes i did | 22:03 |
| ali1234 | iekku: then you know the answer | 22:03 |
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| iekku | ali1234, not really. | 22:03 |
| ali1234 | "Bug still happens has described in the report. Tested with running "sudo zypper si..." and "sudo rpmbuild -bp ..." and the build still fails in exactly the same way." | 22:04 |
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| iekku | oh, ok | 22:04 |
| ali1234 | s/has/as/ | 22:04 |
| infobot | ali1234 meant: "Bug still happens as described in the report. Tested with running "sudo zypper si..." and "sudo rpmbuild -bp ..." and the build still fails in exactly the same way." | 22:04 |
| iekku | somehow i missed the commends.. | 22:04 |
| iekku | i think i'm too tired to do any work related stuff | 22:05 |
| iekku | ali1234, sorry | 22:05 |
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| ali1234 | iekku: sorry, i don't mean to have a go at you, i'm just frustrated by this | 22:07 |
| villev | can you #include other .yaml files w/ spectacle? | 22:08 |
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| lardman | evening | 22:10 |
| iekku | ali1234, no problem, tried to help but i think i just caused more frustration ;) | 22:10 |
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| fwest | someone suggest i try out meego for my netbook | 22:24 |
| fwest | can i run java desktop apps, like eclipse? | 22:24 |
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| mwichmann | fwest: you can, although its probably not ideal | 22:31 |
| fwest | mwichmann, think i will have to stick with ubuntu | 22:31 |
| mwichmann | e.g. eclipse isn't really tailored to netbook size | 22:31 |
| mwichmann | thats not different from how it would look on ubuntu | 22:32 |
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| fwest | oh i have enough screen | 22:32 |
| mwichmann | for meego you'd need to fetch someone's java bundle (e.g. from java.com) | 22:32 |
| fwest | just i like to code on my sofa | 22:32 |
| lcuk | please help, my meego ideapad runs too fast. | 22:33 |
| Stskeeps | i think i succesfully had JRE on meego at some point | 22:33 |
| lcuk | can I put the cpu into powersave mode | 22:33 |
| mwichmann | I have one, use it for freemind | 22:33 |
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| npm | mwichmann: MeeGo runs Java as ideally as any other linux platform. | 23:23 |
| sergiusens | does anyone here have a lenovo s10 (3t) with 2GB of RAM running MeeGo 1.2 (netbook in my case) | 23:24 |
| sergiusens | I have 2GB of RAM, but MeeGo only sees 1 | 23:24 |
| thiago | I think the kernel was compiled without highmem support | 23:25 |
| npm | http://wiki.meego.com/Java | 23:25 |
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| sergiusens | is that for a specific reason such as performance? | 23:25 |
| user0 | trying to use rescue Initrd's recovery terminal | 23:26 |
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| user0 | by i cant type stuff like / and - | 23:27 |
| user0 | even numbers | 23:27 |
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| user0 | am i missing something here or was it made like this? | 23:28 |
| npm | see instructions for Java JDK intall here: http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-community/2011-February/003570.html (includes links needed for java browser plugin) | 23:28 |
| npm | and if you don't have java installed how you gonna run http://netalyzr.icsi.berkeley.edu/ and find out about your networking? | 23:29 |
| user0 | any suggestions? | 23:29 |
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| gabrbedd | sergiusens: thiago: Indeed, kernel does not have HIMEM support by default. And it is for performance. | 23:34 |
| sergiusens | can i enable it through a param or do I need to recompile my own kernel? | 23:34 |
| gabrbedd | and I only know because auke told me so. You can grep your kernel config and see. | 23:35 |
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| sofar | needs a recompile | 23:35 |
| gabrbedd | recompile | 23:35 |
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| sergiusens | agh... ok :-p | 23:35 |
| sergiusens | good thing I can start using my new community obs account for :-) | 23:36 |
| ali1234 | npm: that netalyzer thingy only succeeded in crashing my browser | 23:36 |
| ali1234 | i can't even restart it because it crashed so bad | 23:37 |
| npm | sounds like a bug | 23:38 |
| ali1234 | sure, but i've given up reporting bugs against ubuntu | 23:39 |
| npm | which browser | 23:39 |
| ali1234 | firefox | 23:39 |
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| ali1234 | looks like the problem is that it opened a ff window that unity didn't like, so it didn't bother drawing it on screen | 23:39 |
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| npm | make sure java works first http://java.com/en/download/installed.jsp | 23:39 |
| ali1234 | somehow that window went modal and froze all the rest of firefox | 23:39 |
| ali1234 | derp | 23:39 |
| ali1234 | yes, my java works | 23:40 |
| sergiusens | thanks gabrbedd and thiago | 23:40 |
| ali1234 | anyway because unity decided not to draw the window (it does that all the time for no reason) i couldn't close the actually crashed bit | 23:40 |
| npm | hmm i'm running it in firefox on meego 1.2 right now | 23:40 |
| ali1234 | so i had to kill the whole lot | 23:40 |
| npm | didn't make a modal window | 23:40 |
| ali1234 | it's the java quickstart thing | 23:40 |
| ali1234 | in the crashed bit of java i have this | 23:40 |
| ali1234 | /usr/lib/firefox-4.0.1/firefox-bin http://netalyzr.icsi.berkeley.edu/ | 23:41 |
| ali1234 | \_ /usr/lib/jvm/java-6-openjdk/jre/bin/java -Xbootclasspath/a:/usr/share/icedtea-web/netx.jar:/usr/share/iced | 23:41 |
| ali1234 | but no visible firefox window to match | 23:41 |
| npm | oh wait, the first time, you have to accept to run certain class files | 23:41 |
| npm | aka give trust to icsi @ ucberkeley | 23:41 |
| ali1234 | yes i did that | 23:41 |
| ali1234 | the whole thing runs to completion *then* it crashes | 23:41 |
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| ali1234 | it goes through all the tests | 23:41 |
| npm | oh openjdk | 23:41 |
| ali1234 | then it just freezes up completely | 23:41 |
| npm | yeah, i don't bother w/ open jdk... i wish it worked for me | 23:41 |
| npm | but i've been having to go against principles and deinstall it and install sun JDK | 23:42 |
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| ali1234 | yeah there it goes again | 23:43 |
| ali1234 | it just says "Tests complete." and then it freezes | 23:43 |
| ali1234 | i can still just go to another webpage | 23:43 |
| ali1234 | but if i close all firefox windows, firefox carries on running in the background | 23:43 |
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| npm | well sorry for crashing your browser. i was just running it to see about ipv6 on the meego netbook | 23:49 |
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| Saviq | any pointers on how to deploy QML apps from QtCreator to a MeeGo device? I can only see examples and support for C++ UIs? | 23:50 |
| npm | if it's pure qml, just use qmlviewer... otherwise the qtcreator create new qtquick project wizard will create a C++ app viewer and deploy it for you | 23:51 |
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| npm | i attempted to use it here http://ytd-meego.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/playground/ytapi-jsonviewer/ for example | 23:53 |
| ali1234 | i was just running it to see if it could detect my ISPs new traffic shaper | 23:53 |
| npm | you probably can and will -- that's what it's for | 23:55 |
| ali1234 | i will try it on meego then | 23:55 |
| ali1234 | i was looking for a tool like this for a couple of days | 23:56 |
| ali1234 | the google one can't detect it | 23:56 |
| user0 | how do i connect to a remote shell using rescue initrd? | 23:56 |
| ali1234 | but everyone knows it's there because there is a 150 post long thread on the ISP forums about lag where they admit that the new traffic shaper (which they never even mentioned previously) is the cause | 23:56 |
| ali1234 | oh wow what is this? | 23:57 |
| npm | (it's very cool) -- see also http://mirrors.bufferbloat.net/Talks/BayBloat04262011/BayBloat.pdf | 23:57 |
| ali1234 | the first time you load up chromium on 1.2 it pops up an extremely cryptic and scary looking warning? | 23:58 |
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| npm | and watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbIozKVz73g -- Jim Gettys -- of X windows fame, on "dark buffers on the internet" | 23:58 |
| ali1234 | "external protocol request" "chrome-extension://sakjdfhdskfjhdsfds/background.html" | 23:58 |
| ali1234 | yes, the url really does look like someone mashed thekeyboard | 23:59 |
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| ali1234 | i already watched the thing about buffer bloat | 23:59 |
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