| lardman | Stskeeps: that's pre-tablet ux though isn't it? | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| lcuk | cool | 00:00 |
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| Stskeeps | lardman: no, fairly late in process | 00:00 |
| lardman | actually does tablet require opengles accel? As if not I'll try that and then cross my fingers that we see some panda binaries compiled for hard float | 00:00 |
| DawnFoster | I think the tool forces an arbitrary final date | 00:00 |
| Stskeeps | lardman: can technically run without, but yu need to edit .deskotp files | 00:01 |
| lardman | ok, that is not the end of the world - why .desktop files? Are there some accelerated things that are autoloaded? | 00:02 |
| * lardman has never seen tablet ux | 00:02 | |
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| lardman | still can't see any tablet .ks files under the 1.1.90 dirs I should add | 00:04 |
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| lcuk | o_O http://www.tipb.com/2011/01/07/ten-1-shows-fling-thumbsticks-ipad-gaming-tipb-ces-2011/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheIphoneBlog+%28TiPb%3A+iPhone%2C+iPad%2C+iPod%29 | 00:09 |
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| SpeedEvil | Those are on dealextreme cheap | 00:15 |
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| berndhs | hmm how about a suction cup attached transparent keyboard ? | 00:25 |
| lcuk | lardman, did you find .ks required? | 00:27 |
| lcuk | berndhs, a bit big to add/remove | 00:28 |
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| lardman | lcuk: yes, sort of, from Stskeeps's link earlier | 00:28 |
| lcuk | it would be fun to have localised vibra actuators below parts of the screen though | 00:28 |
| lardman | the sort of because the OpenGL ES userspace stuff is still going to be softfloat, but that ks is for hardfloat | 00:28 |
| lcuk | lardman, yes I was going to say | 00:28 |
| lcuk | each image folder type | 00:29 |
| lcuk | has the .ks linked with it | 00:29 |
| lcuk | like | 00:29 |
| lcuk | todays n900 acceptance folder | 00:29 |
| lcuk | http://repository.maemo.org/meego/n900-de/daily/1.2.0.90.3.20110608.2.DE.2011-06-09.1/images/mg-handset-armv7nhl-n900-de-acceptance/ | 00:29 |
| lardman | I thought as it was N900De it would be handset only, bad assumption on my part | 00:29 |
| lcuk | contains the specific .ks that got generated | 00:29 |
| lcuk | the .ks itself is not stored beforehand | 00:29 |
| lardman | yeah I want tablet though preferably | 00:29 |
| lcuk | it is generated by the thing that makes all the image types | 00:29 |
| lcuk | then step back from that folder | 00:30 |
| lcuk | and go into a tablet one | 00:30 |
| lcuk | http://repository.maemo.org/meego/n900-de/daily/1.2.0.90.3.20110608.2.DE.2011-06-09.1/images/mg-tablet-armv7nhl-n900-de-acceptance/ | 00:30 |
| lardman | yes thanks, as I said I did find it ;) | 00:30 |
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| lcuk | I am mentioning it together for the other 465 too :P | 00:31 |
| lardman | ah fair enough :) | 00:31 |
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| lcuk | lardman, | 00:32 |
| lcuk | what do you use as test barcode with mbarcode? | 00:33 |
| lcuk | when sat hacking, what do you try with? | 00:33 |
| lardman | whatever's sat on my desk - CDs, games for EANs, random books for ISBNs and usually Google image search for the 2D codes | 00:34 |
| lcuk | heh | 00:34 |
| * lardman ponders what to do about hardfloat# | 00:35 | |
| lcuk | wassup with it? | 00:35 |
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| lardman | in compatibility with opengles userspace | 00:35 |
| javispedro | ? | 00:35 |
| lardman | add a hyphen there | 00:35 |
| * SpeedEvil thinks of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masaki_Sumitani when reading lardmans comment. | 00:35 | |
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| javispedro | lardman: you only have softfloat gles libs because they come from a third party? | 00:36 |
| lardman | yes | 00:36 |
| javispedro | which device? and chip? | 00:36 |
| lardman | the Tab is a hummingbird, which has an sgx540 | 00:36 |
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| lardman | the panda is an omap4 which also has an sgx540 | 00:36 |
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| javispedro | .... but ... ? :) | 00:37 |
| lardman | I have the source for the hummingbird driver | 00:37 |
| lardman | so the plan was to see if I could use the panda userspace on the Tab by making sure the Tab kernel driver did the same stuff as the panda one | 00:37 |
| javispedro | you cannot get the sgx kernel kit? TI probably provides it for the omap4 | 00:38 |
| lardman | probably softfloat though | 00:38 |
| lardman | that would mean my paying money too presumably | 00:38 |
| lardman | unless they give them away for free of course | 00:39 |
| lardman | :) | 00:39 |
| javispedro | I think they do | 00:39 |
| javispedro | they do for omap3 at least these days | 00:39 |
| javispedro | sadly, I bet everything that has "Android" on its name is softfloat.. | 00:40 |
| javispedro | hmm | 00:40 |
| javispedro | ubuntu is hardfloat --> https://launchpad.net/~tiomap-dev/+archive/release | 00:41 |
| lardman | the DDK is probably going to need some serious NDAs, which they don't like hobby programmers signing up for I imagine | 00:41 |
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| javispedro | lardman: naaah, even the nitdroid guys got it, things are getting laxer. | 00:41 |
| lardman | anyway I imagine the other ARM board guys have already thought of all this, and have also not reached any satisfactory conclusion other than to do a parallel softfloat build | 00:41 |
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| lardman | javispedro: hmm# | 00:42 |
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| lardman | javispedro: what makes you think that is hardfloat? | 00:47 |
| javispedro | aren't the recent ubuntu netbook distros hfp? | 00:48 |
| javispedro | s/hfp/hardfloat | 00:48 |
| lardman | no idea tbh | 00:48 |
| javispedro | can check in a moment | 00:48 |
| lardman | thanks | 00:48 |
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| lardman | https://wiki.linaro.org/Linaro-arm-hardfloat says that Ubuntu arm is softfloat | 00:51 |
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| javispedro | seems so... | 00:51 |
| mikhas | so how can I properly restart services on MeeGo? | 00:52 |
| javispedro | unless Tag_unknown_44 means hardfloat =) | 00:52 |
| lardman | I see a launchpad questiony thingie asking whether Ubuntu should support two arm repos, so I guess it's in the "thinking about stage" only | 00:53 |
| javispedro | lardman: nah, confirming softfloat. | 00:53 |
| lardman | interesting reading about the potential speedup from hardfloat though | 00:53 |
| javispedro | specially on GL since fixed point stuff fell in disuse | 00:54 |
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| lardman | I guess a 40% faster fp might make up to some small degree for the lack of hw accel in the tablet ui | 00:54 |
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| javispedro | nope | 00:55 |
| lardman | I didn't specify how small ;) | 00:55 |
| javispedro | ok =) | 00:55 |
| lardman | how well does the tablet ux desktop run without hw accel anyway? | 00:56 |
| * lardman wonders about appropriating his wife's no-often-used netbook to try installing it | 00:56 | |
| javispedro | on x86 it probably runs well, dunno arm | 00:56 |
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| mikhas | what would be the appropriate ML for OBS project questions? | 00:58 |
| * lardman heads for bed | 01:00 | |
| lardman | night everyone | 01:01 |
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| javispedro | gnite lardman|gone | 01:01 |
| javispedro | oops. | 01:01 |
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| mikhas | I get "symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/egl/egl_dri2.so: undefined symbol: _glapi_get_proc_address" in my application | 01:08 |
| mikhas | me reckons I use wrong GLES libs? | 01:08 |
| thiago_home | or you're missing some deps | 01:09 |
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| ahel | hi! i'm trying to install meego on a Intel Classmate | 04:18 |
| ahel | it has a 16gb ssd and a 16gb of sdhc | 04:18 |
| ahel | can i use it together or it's useless? | 04:19 |
| ahel | ty :) | 04:19 |
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| Saviq | sure you can | 04:19 |
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| Saviq | ahel: I assume you mean meego netbook? | 04:20 |
| ahel | yup Saviq | 04:20 |
| Saviq | IIRC it had a partitioning tool during installation that will allow you to, for example, make the sdhc /home | 04:20 |
| Saviq | and even if it didn't, you can get all that set up in the standard linux way | 04:21 |
| ahel | Saviq: hahahah :) | 04:21 |
| ahel | i've just set up another arch linux and i have tought it would be different xD | 04:22 |
| Saviq | what would be different and why? | 04:23 |
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| ahel | *installing meego would be | 04:24 |
| ahel | :) | 04:24 |
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| Saviq | ahel: the netbook installer is based on anaconda from Fedora, AFAIK | 04:25 |
| ahel | Saviq: good to know. | 04:25 |
| ahel | btw it's not a good idea having 2 media : one for root and another for home | 04:26 |
| ahel | or it is? | 04:26 |
| Saviq | depends | 04:26 |
| Saviq | helps you keep it safe if you install different distros often | 04:27 |
| Saviq | (the /home I mean) | 04:27 |
| Saviq | but if you have the sdhc removable | 04:27 |
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| ahel | yes | 04:27 |
| ahel | it is removable | 04:27 |
| Saviq | then treat it as one | 04:27 |
| Saviq | get everything on a single partition on the sdd | 04:28 |
| Saviq | and use the sdhc as removable storage | 04:28 |
| Saviq | 'cause if you lose the sdhc and your home dir with it, it might not be nice | 04:28 |
| ahel | 16gb on ssd are enought in your opinion? | 04:28 |
| Saviq | and also you wouldn't be able to replace it for another one | 04:28 |
| Saviq | sure | 04:28 |
| Saviq | when using external storage for big things, that's more than enough | 04:29 |
| Saviq | the meego installation fits in under 2GB I think | 04:29 |
| Saviq | so the rest is for you to use | 04:29 |
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| ahel | well i trust you Saviq | 04:30 |
| ahel | i'm installing only in the ssd | 04:30 |
| ahel | :) | 04:30 |
| ahel | ty for support :) | 04:30 |
| Saviq | cheers | 04:30 |
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| ahel | hi again. | 04:56 |
| ahel | how can i blacklist some module device? | 04:56 |
| ahel | in arch linux you can do that in /etc/rc.conf | 04:56 |
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| ahel | the normal kernel loads for my wifi the rt28xx but it's not that one that i need. | 04:58 |
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| ahel | ok found | 04:59 |
| ahel | it was in /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist.conf | 05:00 |
| ahel | ty :) | 05:00 |
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| gabrbedd | Anybody know who/wat sets the "OnlyShowIn" master string? (E.g. X-MEEGO-HS) | 05:58 |
| sofar | currently uxlaunch decides what the session string is for autostart desktop files | 06:02 |
| sofar | it's different for application desktop files | 06:02 |
| sofar | I need to redesign this to be more flexible and generic for 1.3 | 06:03 |
| gabrbedd | Really? | 06:04 |
| gabrbedd | I didn't expect that. Do you know how it decides the string? | 06:04 |
| *** lynxis has quit IRC | 06:05 | |
| sofar | it looks up the session executable in a table and determines what the session name is from there | 06:05 |
| mikhas | where is that table? | 06:05 |
| * gabrbedd sudo zypper si uxlaunch | 06:05 | |
| sofar | hardcoded :) | 06:05 |
| sofar | git clone uxlaunch ... | 06:05 |
| mikhas | and if there's a table, then why have this red herring in the .desktop files of /etc/xdg/autostart services? | 06:05 |
| gabrbedd | Wonder twin powers... ACTIVATE! | 06:05 |
| sofar | which red herring? | 06:06 |
| gabrbedd | mikhas: those aren't red herrings. | 06:06 |
| sofar | like I said, it needs a redesign | 06:06 |
| mikhas | enlighten me | 06:06 |
| gabrbedd | Those are being matched against the master string set by uxlaunch. | 06:06 |
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| gabrbedd | If they match, the desktop file is activated. | 06:06 |
| gabrbedd | If not... it's skipped over. | 06:07 |
| gabrbedd | That way you can have services that run in netbook, but not handset. | 06:07 |
| mikhas | yeah, got that | 06:07 |
| sofar | exactly | 06:07 |
| sofar | although some UX's are terrible and invade others like mad | 06:07 |
| mikhas | but didn't we try to find out why meego-im-uiserver is *still* started on tablet UX, even though the .desktop file would say: "skip me please" | 06:07 |
| * gabrbedd is finding out... | 06:08 | |
| mikhas | ok, cool | 06:08 |
| mikhas | thanks for that, appreciated | 06:08 |
| sofar | mikhas: one of the things I intend to fix ferociously | 06:09 |
| gabrbedd | mikhas: default is X-MEEGO-NB | 06:09 |
| mikhas | sofar, DONT! there woudlnt be no Swype keyboard if you did =p | 06:09 |
| gabrbedd | If using mcompositor X-MEEGO-HS | 06:09 |
| mikhas | (j/k) | 06:09 |
| gabrbedd | neskowin -> X-MUX | 06:10 |
| gabrbedd | xfce -> XFCE | 06:10 |
| gabrbedd | ...etc | 06:10 |
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| gabrbedd | So that explains why my im-uiserver didn't start... I'm not using mcompositor. | 06:10 |
| mikhas | yeah | 06:10 |
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| sofar | yes | 06:10 |
| mikhas | but man, that sounds like a bug to me | 06:10 |
| sofar | one of the big pains of my hardcoded table | 06:10 |
| mikhas | or is mcompositor on its way out, for MeeGo 1.3? | 06:10 |
| sofar | also, the exact reason why I intend to fix this for 1.3 once and for all the right way | 06:11 |
| gabrbedd | (Actually, I had a leftover .desktop file from the netbook days.... so it worked until I removed that "cruft") | 06:11 |
| mikhas | interesting | 06:11 |
| sofar | http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-os-base/uxlaunch/blobs/master/desktop.c#line257 | 06:11 |
| gabrbedd | But that .desktop file was our own special sauce. :-) | 06:11 |
| mikhas | sofar, gabrbedd, do we have a bug for this? | 06:11 |
| mikhas | now that you have so nicely explained it to me, without me having to look a single line of code :-) | 06:12 |
| gabrbedd | Should the bug be against uxlaunch... or each fragile .desktop file? | 06:12 |
| mikhas | mcompositor is really a bad session name, lol | 06:12 |
| sofar | mikhas: there is no bug yet for that | 06:12 |
| mikhas | sofar, you should report one against yourself, for making gabrbedd scratch his head and waste precious time he could have spent writing patches for me! | 06:14 |
| sofar | mikhas: I should make you squirm a bit more :) | 06:14 |
| gabrbedd | sofar: I noticed that "X-MEEGO" in a desktop file seems to be a positive match. Is that by design? | 06:15 |
| mikhas | I already am, but that's because of suppressing bodily functions for the last hour | 06:15 |
| sofar | gabrbedd: depends on the uxlaunch version. old (pre-1.2) versions did have that I think | 06:16 |
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| gabrbedd | I was planning on filing bugs for 1.2 and 1.3. | 06:16 |
| gabrbedd | ...to get X-MEEGO added to the desktop files. | 06:16 |
| sofar | X-MEEGO is not anything anymore | 06:17 |
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| sofar | it certainly would be a bug | 06:17 |
| gabrbedd | But it still (seems) to match... that's kind of what I was asking. :-) | 06:17 |
| sofar | pastebin the desktop file | 06:18 |
| sofar | and it's location on disk | 06:18 |
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| gabrbedd | sofar: Here's why X-MEEGO is a match: http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-os-base/uxlaunch/blobs/master/desktop.c#line200 | 06:21 |
| sofar | pastebin the desktop file... please? | 06:22 |
| sofar | also, what is your uxlaunch session configured as? | 06:22 |
| gabrbedd | sofar: matchbox-window-manager | 06:22 |
| sofar | can you just pastebin both files entirely? :) | 06:23 |
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| gabrbedd | sofar: sorry... I bastardized the file and am restoring it. :-) | 06:26 |
| gabrbedd | sofar: http://pastie.org/2045953 | 06:28 |
| gabrbedd | Anyway, it looks like this expression is true: !g_strstr_len("X-MEEGO", -1, "X-MEEGO-FOO") | 06:31 |
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| Jay_BEE | hi. | 06:44 |
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| gabrbedd | Jay_BEE: hi | 06:44 |
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| Jay_BEE | hi gabrbedd, i determined that the install was blocked by a known issue and I was able to resolve it by going to an earlier image | 06:45 |
| gabrbedd | Jay_BEE: Sweet! | 06:46 |
| gabrbedd | Life in the fast lane.... | 06:46 |
| mikhas | We need to innovate faster anyway | 06:46 |
| mikhas | =p | 06:46 |
| sofar | gabrbedd: hmmm strange, that would mean that "X-MEEGO" contains the entire string "X-MEEGO-FOO" | 06:46 |
| gabrbedd | sofar: the docs say that it limits the length of the search to the length of the first param. | 06:47 |
| sofar | of course, the whole way of parsing OnlyShowIn should explode the haystack into ';' delimited parts | 06:47 |
| sofar | yeah, the whole thing is wrong to begin with | 06:48 |
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| gabrbedd | sofar: I'm thinking I should file a but against uxlaunch instead of each app with a .desktop file. Agree? | 06:49 |
| gabrbedd | s/but/bug/ | 06:49 |
| infobot | gabrbedd meant: sofar: I'm thinking I should file a bug against uxlaunch instead of each app with a .desktop file. Agree? | 06:49 |
| sofar | yes | 06:49 |
| * gabrbedd files bug | 06:49 | |
| sofar | yay, more bugs for me | 06:50 |
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| gabrbedd | sofar: mikhas: bug 18856 | 06:59 |
| MeeGoBot | Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=18856 nor, Undecided, ---, peter.j.zhu, NEW, uxlaunch doesn't allow for the session string to be customized | 06:59 |
| gabrbedd | Anybody know how to clone a bug for 1.3? | 06:59 |
| gabrbedd | duh... the "clone this bug" link at the bottom... | 07:00 |
| sofar | gabrbedd: don't | 07:00 |
| sofar | gabrbedd: this will be a 1.3 fix only | 07:00 |
| sofar | for 1.2, it's too much | 07:00 |
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| gabrbedd | sofar: too late. I guess just reject 1.2 as invalid. | 07:02 |
| gabrbedd | ...and I'll have to provide a hot-rodded version of uxlaunch or something. | 07:02 |
| sofar | no | 07:02 |
| sofar | don't reject it | 07:02 |
| sofar | it's valid alright | 07:02 |
| sofar | I'll mark it wontfix | 07:02 |
| gabrbedd | I didn't say *I* was going to reject it. :-) | 07:03 |
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| gabrbedd | good night all! | 07:34 |
| sofar | desktop.c | 107 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++---------- | 07:40 |
| sofar | options.c | 2 - | 07:40 |
| sofar | uxlaunch.c | 4 +- | 07:40 |
| sofar | 3 files changed, 93 insertions(+), 20 deletions(-) | 07:40 |
| mikhas | you fixed it! | 07:40 |
| sofar | some progress, should be able to test this maybe this weekend | 07:40 |
| sofar | it's not done yet | 07:40 |
| sofar | need to implement `basename` in C somehow properly | 07:41 |
| sofar | think I did that somewhere else once, so I gotta find that code | 07:41 |
| sofar | also, it needs docs | 07:41 |
| * mikhas tends to forget that one needs to do everything from scratch in assembler macro | 07:41 | |
| mikhas | sofar, http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gtk-devel-list/2009-April/msg00061.html | 07:42 |
| mikhas | err wrong link, forget it | 07:42 |
| sofar | lol | 07:42 |
| sofar | funny post though | 07:43 |
| sofar | `basename` is hard to do | 07:43 |
| sofar | since you can have a folder or file with '/' as character in the name | 07:43 |
| mikhas | how about http://developer.gnome.org/gio/unstable/GFile.html#g-file-get-basename | 07:44 |
| sofar | yup, that will do | 07:44 |
| sofar | not all I need, but it'll help | 07:44 |
| sofar | ahh no, fail | 07:47 |
| sofar | it uses a GFile* | 07:47 |
| mikhas | well, but the sources will contain the droids you've been looking for | 07:49 |
| sofar | eh, I already have a version somehwere, just need to dig it up :) | 07:49 |
| mikhas | :-) | 07:50 |
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| sofar | if only I could figure out where... lol | 07:51 |
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| mikhas | (GFile is easily constructed though for a generic path-like string, see g_file_parse_name) | 07:51 |
| iekku | good morning | 07:53 |
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| * andyross wakes up. sofar: no, you can't have a '/' in the name. The character is illegal per all known specs, and obviously would break kernel parsing of path strings. | 08:00 | |
| sofar | hmmm | 08:01 |
| sofar | doesn't surprise me, but, I never was bold enough to find that out :) | 08:01 |
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| SpeedEvil | / and NUL | 08:05 |
| SpeedEvil | are forbidden | 08:05 |
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| SpeedEvil | at least under unix. | 08:05 |
| andyross | Right, for the same reason. The point being that the kernel has to parse the path unambiguously, so you can't have a directory named "A" and a file named "A/B" (or "A\000B") in the same superdirectory. | 08:05 |
| andyross | Windows too, btw. Little known trivia is that win32 (and DOS before it) accepts "/" as a directory separator. | 08:06 |
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| andyross | I guess now someone has to look up how robust that checking is: if you byte-edit a filesystem to stuff illegal characters in, can you break anything? | 08:07 |
| sofar | derp | 08:07 |
| sofar | if you can't, that would not look good on your resume. | 08:07 |
| * sofar stuffs BELL in everything | 08:08 | |
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| sofar | well anyway, I just wrote the basename() implementation from hell | 08:10 |
| sofar | should suffice for uxlaunch ;) | 08:10 |
| SpeedEvil | / in pathnames is an annoyance. | 08:10 |
| SpeedEvil | You'd need to stat the tree | 08:10 |
| SpeedEvil | actually - no - you can't do it as directory "foo/bar" can't be disambiguated from "foo"/"bar" | 08:10 |
| andyross | Exactly. If the only interface to the kernel was traversing dirent, it would work. But open() takes a path and parses it. | 08:11 |
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| Alison_Chaiken | http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-20070260-92/report-nokia-cto-on-the-outs-in-strategy-spat/?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-20 | 08:23 |
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| Alison_Chaiken | "Green's conflict with his employer stems to some degree from Nokia's decision to jettison its MeeGo operating system" | 08:24 |
| sofar | hmm, I wonder if I can somehow tap execvp to test whether a binary actually exists before calling it.... | 08:26 |
| npm | today's upgrade of tablet ux is quite responsive | 08:27 |
| rohanpm | sofar: why? | 08:27 |
| sofar | fallback support, and, wondering in general how the PATH is resolved to an executable | 08:27 |
| Jay_BEE | gn | 08:28 |
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| sofar | http://koala.cs.pub.ro/lxr/#glibc/posix/execvp.c nasty... :) | 08:29 |
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| sofar | well now, I think I'm done with this code | 08:36 |
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| sofar | $ ./uxlaunch -v -- XBMC | 08:36 |
| sofar | [00.000172] [7023] uxlaunch v0.61 started. | 08:36 |
| sofar | [00.000215] [7023] user "sofar", tty #7, session "XBMC" | 08:36 |
| sofar | [00.000576] [7023] session="XBMC" | 08:36 |
| sofar | [00.000618] [7023] session_filter="XBMC" | 08:36 |
| sofar | [00.000645] [7023] session_exec="xbmc-standalone" | 08:36 |
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| htangMeego | hi, I installed Meego sdk 1.1, and with qtcreator 2.01, when deploy my application to netbook, it says "deplyment failed: could not open file app-0.0.1-1.i586.rpm"; but my generated file is app-0.1.0-3.rpm | 08:41 |
| htangMeego | please help me, does someone knows? | 08:44 |
| npm | sofar: what's "./uxlaunch -v -- XBMC" do? (as opposed to just launching xbmc normally) | 08:44 |
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| sofar | before my patch, it will execute the first `XBMC` binary it can find | 08:45 |
| sofar | after my patch, it will read xsession files and retreive the Exec= lines from them | 08:45 |
| npm | so is that the way you're supposed to launch normal programs in tablet ux? | 08:45 |
| sofar | i.e. it goes and finds XBMC.desktop in /usr/share/xsessions/ or /etc/X11/dm/sessions/ | 08:45 |
| sofar | no, it's how to launch the entire session | 08:45 |
| sofar | not just 1 app | 08:46 |
| npm | oh i see. | 08:46 |
| sofar | the new code will make it more configurable for alternate desktops and compositors | 08:46 |
| sofar | which is needed for wayland and others | 08:46 |
| npm | that's what confused me, since i just edited my uxlaunch file when i noticed an rpmnew show up | 08:46 |
| sofar | I'm trying to make the /etc/sysconfig/uxlaunch file completely obsolete | 08:47 |
| npm | fine by me :-) it seemed like an odd way to do things | 08:47 |
| sofar | it's not | 08:48 |
| sofar | it will allow anyone to drop a file in /usr/share/xsessions and then it will work in uxlaunch | 08:48 |
| sofar | including NotShowIn and OnlyShowIn stuff in xdg/autostart desktop files | 08:48 |
| sofar | that's the whole catch - that still needs to work properly for custom sessions | 08:49 |
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| npm | cool... just noticed my fedora desktop has /usr/share/xsessions/XBMC.desktop | 08:50 |
| sofar | yup, alterior motive is to make xbmc easier to integrate as well | 08:50 |
| sofar | npm: you'll be able to do this: | 08:51 |
| sofar | ln -s /usr/share/xsessions/xfce.desktop ~/.config/xsessions/default.desktop | 08:51 |
| sofar | and now your desktop session is a personal configuration choice | 08:51 |
| npm | that's what i meant by odd way to do things... the way uxlaunch goes now, versus /usr/share/xsessions/ on fedora/etc | 08:51 |
| sofar | it was a TODO since the start of uxlaunch | 08:52 |
| sofar | I just never got to writing that code | 08:52 |
| npm | so anything that converges w/ mainline distros makes me happy :-) | 08:52 |
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| npm | although sometimes the mainline distros converge with meego (btrfs on fedora 16) | 08:52 |
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| sofar | mikhas: I'm off to bed, if you want, I pushed the prototype upstream -> test? | 09:01 |
| sofar | To git@gitorious.org:meego-os-base/uxlaunch.git | 09:01 |
| sofar | 5432877..62c44b9 master -> master | 09:01 |
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| * sofar goes to bed | 09:01 | |
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| mikhas | ok | 09:12 |
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| bkalinga | i use madde and qemu for my MeeGo application developement activities | 10:29 |
| bkalinga | how can i install spectacle on my Ubuntu 10.04 machine | 10:29 |
| bkalinga | to create .spec files | 10:29 |
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| mikhas | bkalinga, AFAIK it's only a perl script | 10:35 |
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| mikhas | no "installation" required | 10:35 |
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| bkalinga | mikhas: i am running into a problem while using TEMPLATE = subdirs CONFIG += ordered | 10:36 |
| bkalinga | because that outer folder spec file does not create the package correctly | 10:36 |
| bkalinga | subdirs has the there inividual .spec files | 10:37 |
| bkalinga | they are creating their own rrpmbuild folders but not getting merged to create the final package | 10:37 |
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| summel | hmm when trying to flash meego i only get a "ifconfig: interface usb0 does not exist" | 11:00 |
| summel | (im on mac os) | 11:00 |
| summel | oh and not only that... now the device does not turn on anymore -_- | 11:03 |
| summel | \o/ | 11:03 |
| dm8tbr | what are you trying? | 11:07 |
| dm8tbr | and which device is it? | 11:07 |
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| summel | n900 | 11:08 |
| summel | i was trying to flash meego | 11:08 |
| summel | obviously it didnt work | 11:08 |
| summel | -_- | 11:08 |
| dm8tbr | you don't flash meego on an n9pp | 11:11 |
| dm8tbr | you just dd an image to an muSD card | 11:11 |
| dm8tbr | see the meego wiki for details | 11:13 |
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| summel | no | 11:22 |
| summel | http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Install/EMMC | 11:23 |
| summel | i tried that | 11:23 |
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| summel | i dont have an sd card | 11:23 |
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| summel | hmm | 11:25 |
| summel | now it turns itself on when i insert the battery | 11:25 |
| summel | but it does not boot | 11:25 |
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| summel | and flasher stays at Suitable USB device not found, waiting. forever :S | 11:25 |
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| summel | \o/ it tried to flash again | 11:35 |
| summel | but now im stuck at ifconfig: interface usb0 does not exist | 11:35 |
| summel | again | 11:35 |
| summel | :S | 11:35 |
| jsv | summel: i think the installer relies on linux-style usb networking (timoph: ping ^) | 11:36 |
| summel | -_- then why are there instructions for mac os if it doesnt work there anyways? :S | 11:37 |
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| bkalinga | how to specify "instroot" path in meego-sdk-qtcreator? | 11:53 |
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| lcuk | morning \o | 12:28 |
| lcuk | >acceptance -> testing | 12:29 |
| lcuk | >sanity -> stable | 12:29 |
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| summel | \o/ ty lcuk | 12:34 |
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| lcuk | w00t, you mentioned yesterday about something for importing contacts | 12:38 |
| lcuk | would the sync thing you did be somewhat useful for this purpose | 12:38 |
| lcuk | can it be used on the command line to import all .vcf files in a folder? | 12:39 |
| * lcuk has a folder full of contacts (and all the collabora ones have photos too) | 12:39 | |
| lcuk | we can get the n900-de a little closer to normal use by importing these on firstboot | 12:39 |
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| lardman | morning | 12:40 |
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| lcuk | morning simon \o | 12:42 |
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| lardman | hi lcuk | 12:46 |
| summel | hm i still have the problem "flashing done | 12:47 |
| summel | ifconfig: interface usb0 does not exist" | 12:47 |
| summel | :S mac os insists that the n900 is a modem and nothing else :/ | 12:47 |
| lardman | where are you doing ifconfig? | 12:51 |
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| summel | i dont. it is not in the instructions :o | 12:52 |
| lardman | you typed it above though | 12:52 |
| summel | it is the output of the installer script | 12:52 |
| summel | http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Install/EMMC | 12:52 |
| lardman | ah I see | 12:52 |
| lardman | hmm, no idea, though you might try looking at the script to see what it tries to do | 12:53 |
| summel | ifconfig usb0 192.168.2.14 up | 12:53 |
| lardman | presumably flasher works for you? | 12:53 |
| summel | it seems so | 12:53 |
| summel | but im on mac os | 12:53 |
| summel | and there is no usb0 interface | 12:54 |
| summel | and i have not a single clue about usb networking | 12:54 |
| lardman | you usually need a kernel module to enable gadget ethernet | 12:54 |
| summel | mac os just keeps insisting that the n900 is a usb modem :S | 12:54 |
| lardman | has it been flashed or still running Maemo? | 12:54 |
| summel | it did some things and i can still boot into maemo :o | 12:54 |
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| summel | first i thought it was bricked but only the battery was empty :S | 12:55 |
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| lardman | hard to know - perhaps max os thinks that the pid/vid of the N900 is a usb modem? | 12:55 |
| lardman | s/max/mac | 12:55 |
| summel | ohhh | 12:55 |
| summel | wait | 12:55 |
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| summel | it also prints a "./n900-de-emmc-installer.sh: line 191: pidof: command not found" | 12:56 |
| summel | :o | 12:56 |
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| summel | well i will try more stuff on monday :D | 12:56 |
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| summel | have to pick up a freind at the train station now :o | 12:57 |
| lardman | pidof is probably used to kill something | 12:57 |
| lardman | or rather used to find the pid so something can be killed | 12:57 |
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| * lardman starts writing a Qt app to be deployed on Windows and Linux | 13:20 | |
| lardman | anyone got any tips? Other than making Qt Creator not change the line endings I guess | 13:20 |
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| lcuk | lardman, use simplest components possible | 13:21 |
| lcuk | and try where practical to use the qt apis | 13:21 |
| lardman | I need plotting components | 13:21 |
| CosmoHill | I'm watching real rescues and they're showing a flipped car rescure demo | 13:21 |
| lcuk | rather than using linuxism or windowsisms | 13:21 |
| CosmoHill | it's the same car I have ;o | 13:21 |
| lardman | ah ok, yeah am going to use all Qt where I can | 13:21 |
| lcuk | (like hardcoding "C:/Program files.." | 13:21 |
| lardman | that will have to be done with either an api call for the home dir and/or some #ifdefs I guess | 13:22 |
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| CosmoHill | lardman: #ifdef WIN32 iirc | 13:23 |
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| lardman | I thought there was something with a Q in it? | 13:23 |
| lardman | I'll find it anyway, but thanks | 13:24 |
| lcuk | lardman, Q_WS_* rings a bell | 13:24 |
| lcuk | for the windowing system | 13:24 |
| w00t | QDesktopServices will allow you to get certain user directories | 13:24 |
| lcuk | but one person who knows much: Venemo | 13:24 |
| w00t | (http://doc.qt.nokia.com/latest/qdesktopservices.html#storageLocation) | 13:25 |
| Venemo | hey | 13:25 |
| lardman | cool, I'll bug him about it then ;) | 13:25 |
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| Venemo | lardman, sorry I'm late to this conversation, what is your question? | 13:25 |
| lardman | Venemo: nothing specific, was just asking about writing an app for both Windows and Linux and any points to bear in mind | 13:25 |
| MohammadAG | lardman, re home path, QDir::homePath() | 13:26 |
| lardman | thanks MohammadAG | 13:26 |
| xoan_ | Hello, does someone know some testcase application to meego??? | 13:26 |
| Venemo | lardman, well, as long as you either use only Qt (and not other libs), or you #ifdef out the platform-specific calls, you will be okay | 13:26 |
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| * lardman wonders how one finds out the My Documents/Documents path? | 13:26 | |
| lardman | assuming homePath() would give me e.g. c:\Users\enpsgp\ | 13:27 |
| lardman | ah that's another one, path separators | 13:27 |
| Venemo | lardman, that is QDesktopServices::storageLocation(QDesktopServices::DocumentsLocation) | 13:28 |
| Venemo | lardman, read w00t's link | 13:28 |
| MohammadAG | lardman, use /, it works on Windows somehow | 13:28 |
| lardman | Venemo, w00t: missed that one, thanks | 13:28 |
| lardman | MohammadAG: because they realise they are wrong and need to conform? | 13:28 |
| MohammadAG | lardman, maybe :p | 13:30 |
| lardman | ;) | 13:30 |
| MohammadAG | just keep in mind to windows file.txt = File.txt, you'll probably end up overwriting the file if you expect those to be different | 13:30 |
| MohammadAG | anyway, this is off topic imo :p | 13:30 |
| lardman | yeah sorry | 13:31 |
| Venemo | lardman, I use many native libs in my app, for example for Maemo 5 and Symbian. the key to this is to use #ifdef to determine which platform you are compiling for. | 13:32 |
| lardman | yep, I do that currently for Maemo vs desktop Linux | 13:32 |
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| mikhas | Venemo, so basically the 5-apps-in-1 approach? | 13:38 |
| mikhas | ;-) | 13:38 |
| mikhas | xoan_, use Qt's testing framework? | 13:39 |
| Venemo | mikhas, more than 5, if you think that way :P | 13:39 |
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| Venemo | mikhas, http://gitorious.org/colorful-apps/pages/PuzzleMaster | 13:39 |
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| mikhas | I am thinking of the "this application is 5-times as big as needed, because I supported 5 platforms" way | 13:39 |
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| Venemo | mikhas, it is not 5 times as big... :P | 13:40 |
| mikhas | I know, I am exaggerating | 13:40 |
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| lardman | I suppose it depends how much platform specific code you require | 13:41 |
| lardman | I hope this app of mine won't need too much | 13:41 |
| mikhas | famous last words | 13:42 |
| lardman | travel hopefully? :) | 13:43 |
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| Venemo | I don't require much platform-specific code usually, but I do care about how well my app looks on these platforms, so I tend to add code for some use cases to make it look better | 13:43 |
| lardman | ah well mine's designed for mechanical engineers so what it looks like is probably not so important | 13:44 |
| mikhas | Venemo, you dont use QML? | 13:44 |
| Venemo | mikhas, not yet | 13:45 |
| mikhas | holding back until QML2? | 13:45 |
| Venemo | QML doesn't offer anything that would benefit this particular app | 13:45 |
| Venemo | it uses QGV | 13:45 |
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| mikhas | look, pure reasoning! this guy has it | 13:45 |
| lardman | what's QGV? | 13:46 |
| Venemo | I may consider using QML for my next app(s), but this one will probably stay as it is | 13:46 |
| Stskeeps | graphics view | 13:46 |
| lardman | ok | 13:46 |
| Venemo | QGV = Qt Graphics View framework | 13:46 |
| mikhas | the thing that was cool before QML was cool | 13:46 |
| lardman | lol | 13:46 |
| Venemo | btw in Qt 4, QML also uses QGV for its GUI afaik | 13:47 |
| mikhas | yes | 13:47 |
| mikhas | that's why I was asking whether you specifically wait for QML2 | 13:47 |
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| Venemo | I'll wait and see :) | 13:48 |
| MooseTheBrown | has anyone ever compile udev from sources? | 13:48 |
| Venemo | mikhas, QML could be a huge win, but the fact that it's based on javascript doesn't really appeal to me. | 13:48 |
| mikhas | Venemo, I hear you | 13:49 |
| Venemo | I mean, javascript? seriously? what's wrong with the world? | 13:49 |
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| Venemo | and they _could have_ made it compiled, but NOOO, it's interpreted crap. no thanks. | 13:50 |
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| Venemo | I hear that Qt 5's QML will be different, and it may support JIT compilation. so let's see :) | 13:51 |
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| * lardman wonders if it will be easier to add Python scripting in Qt5 | 13:52 | |
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| lardman | more of a question for PySide though | 13:54 |
| lardman | I still find it odd that not many people want that | 13:54 |
| RST38h | Venemo: Why not go directly to HTML5 then? =) | 13:55 |
| RST38h | Or Flash. | 13:55 |
| Venemo | RST38h, how is HTML 5 related to Qt? | 13:55 |
| RST38h | Venemo: You call it QtHTML5 engine and now it is related to Qt | 13:55 |
| Venemo | why would I want to do that? | 13:55 |
| lardman | Isn't the idea of QML to make application design easy, I guess that's what RST38h is saying about HTML5/flash | 13:56 |
| Venemo | I don't understand why everyone is trying to push these webby stuff into application development. | 13:56 |
| smoku | Venemo: how do you expect a scripted UI, without actually using a scripted language to control it? | 13:57 |
| Venemo | HTML and JS are crap for web development, why would they be good for app development then? | 13:57 |
| Venemo | smoku, not sure, what do you mean by "scripted ui"? | 13:57 |
| smoku | Venemo: attaching small code snippets to actions on UI elements. and having it easily modifiable. | 13:58 |
| RST38h | lardman: More to the point: HTML5, Flash, and Qtq all use JavaScript as their main coding language | 13:59 |
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| RST38h | lardman: All three pretty much save the same purpose | 13:59 |
| Venemo | smoku, I'm not really sure why this would need a script language | 13:59 |
| smoku | Venemo: any arguments to support "HTML and JS are crap for web development" thesis? | 13:59 |
| RST38h | lardman: So, once you make QtQ as complicated and resource hungry as HTML5, why would anyone use it? | 14:00 |
| lardman | the fact Qt uses Javascript isn't web related though is it? I assumed it was just because it was a "standard" scripting language and they wanted one to be built in | 14:00 |
| RST38h | smoku: Actually, I can provide you with an argument | 14:00 |
| lardman | RST38h: easy development? | 14:00 |
| RST38h | lardman: HTML5 is harldy web related nowadays | 14:00 |
| RST38h | lardman: How is QtQ easier than HTML5 or Flash? | 14:00 |
| lardman | fair enough, I've never looked at it, I write in C as I'm an engineer | 14:00 |
| Venemo | I was once a web developer, I always felt that HTML/CSS was kinda okay (but still annoying), and JS is just crap. I haven't met anyone yet who actually enjoyed coding in JS | 14:01 |
| smoku | Venemo: what do you propose in place of scripted language then? | 14:01 |
| lardman | (and write simulation code, not guis) | 14:01 |
| sroedal | RST38h: have you tried writing a HTML5 UI vs writing a QML UI? | 14:01 |
| smoku | RST38h: please do. | 14:01 |
| * TSCHAKeee was always a Smalltalk fan...but.... | 14:01 | |
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| lardman | s/javascript/python would make me happy | 14:02 |
| Venemo | smoku, I think a declarative UI language would be best. kind of like XAML. | 14:02 |
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| TSCHAKeee | lots of people talk on what they think would be best | 14:02 |
| sroedal | Venemo: QML is declarative | 14:02 |
| TSCHAKeee | very few actually just do what they think would be best. | 14:02 |
| RST38h | smoku: HTML5, by its nature, requires a much bigger memory footprint than flash or QtQ (at least so I guess) | 14:02 |
| Venemo | sroedal, since when is javascript a declarative language? | 14:02 |
| smoku | Venemo: I've written a full XMPP client in JS using jQuery and Strophe in javascript only, and enjoyed the experience very much. JavaScript is a great language. | 14:02 |
| RST38h | sroendal: no more | 14:03 |
| sroedal | I think Javascript mixes very well with QML | 14:03 |
| RST38h | sroendal: once you have included JS, it is no longer declarative. | 14:03 |
| Venemo | RST38h ++ | 14:03 |
| Venemo | smoku, you are the first guy who says that | 14:03 |
| sroedal | RST38h: so you would say HTML is not declarative either since you can include Javascript? :) | 14:03 |
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| sroedal | QML is the declarative part of QML + Javascript | 14:03 |
| smoku | Venemo: isn't XAML a scripting language with strange XML-like syntax? | 14:03 |
| RST38h | smoku: HTML's huge memory footprint is the reason why Nokia's web runtime pretty much failed, also the reason why Fennec is such a hog, why web applications are not very popular still ,etc | 14:04 |
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| RST38h | sroedal: correct. | 14:04 |
| Venemo | smoku, XAML is not a scripting language. it is an XML-based declarative GUI language | 14:04 |
| sroedal | and you can do quite a lot of functional programming in Javascript | 14:04 |
| RST38h | smoku: JavaScript is a pretty decent langiage for its purpose, absolutely agree there | 14:04 |
| Venemo | personally, I find javascript's type system and interpreted nature _Very_ annoying. | 14:05 |
| RST38h | smoku: But it is just not practical for complex well performing apps, especially on constrained mobile devices | 14:05 |
| Venemo | RST38h, again, I agree with you | 14:05 |
| smoku | RST38h: so? browsers already handle all kinds of HTML. HTML5 is not really a problem. | 14:05 |
| TSCHAKeee | *cough*FORTH*cough* | 14:05 |
| RST38h | smoku: And the whole reason for me trolling here is that I am afraid that QtQ is moving in exactly the same direction | 14:05 |
| RST38h | smoku: Of course browsers handle it. But can your device handle such a browser? ;) | 14:05 |
| RST38h | smoku: Again, run Fennec on your N900. Weep. | 14:06 |
| sroedal | Venemo: being interpreted or jitted or compiled is not a part of a language per se | 14:06 |
| smoku | Venemo: first guy?? google "Douglas Crockford" | 14:06 |
| sroedal | yep, javascript skeptics should read some articles at http://javascript.crockford.com/ | 14:06 |
| amjad_ | i have used xaml for wp7 gui , :) | 14:07 |
| smoku | RST38h: JavaScript empowers GNOME 3 Shell, and performs there very well. | 14:07 |
| * amjad_ ducks in case meegons strike me :) | 14:07 | |
| sroedal | especially "The World's Most Misunderstood Programming Language" | 14:07 |
| RST38h | smoku: I have not seen GNOME3 Shell, only negative reviews of it | 14:07 |
| RST38h | smoku: And, incidentally, are you going to run GNOME3 on your phone? Have you tried it? | 14:07 |
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| * RST38h sighs: why are these people suddenly decided that I am against JS? | 14:08 | |
| Venemo | it would work, provided that you have 3D acceleration on said phone | 14:08 |
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| sroedal | RST38h: this demo is pure QML 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zl15wKqvUNo | 14:08 |
| RST38h | Venemo; Will run out of memory | 14:08 |
| RST38h | sroedal: This demo shows some arbitrary crap. It does not contain any performance or memory footprint numbers and does not show a realistic app/ | 14:09 |
| smoku | RST38h: I'm not. But I'm pretty sure it would run there well. Clutter runs well on my phone. Spidermonkey runs well on my phone. GObject runs well on my phone. All together at once. I see no reason why another application of the same three technologies would perform worse. | 14:09 |
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| sroedal | RST38h: it demonstrates convenience | 14:09 |
| RST38h | smoku: You really do not? | 14:10 |
| RST38h | smoku: Not even a guess? | 14:10 |
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| lcuk | sroedal, the background wavey bit on that video is awesome | 14:10 |
| lcuk | is that done in qml? | 14:10 |
| sroedal | lcuk: yep | 14:10 |
| lcuk | :D | 14:11 |
| smoku | RST38h: yes I do not. If fennec is able to run on my phone, less resource hungry shell would run too. | 14:11 |
| Venemo | smoku, I would normally agree, but considering that Gnome Shell leaks a crazy amount of memory, I must say it wouldn't work well. | 14:11 |
| lcuk | but that is not performance on a handheld | 14:11 |
| vvaltone | I hope it isn't per-pixel javascript | 14:11 |
| sroedal | lcuk: depends on the handheld | 14:11 |
| RST38h | smoku: First of all, Fennec is unable to run on your phone. | 14:11 |
| vvaltone | but some sort of transformation effect just controlled | 14:11 |
| lcuk | sroedal, one that actually works well | 14:11 |
| sroedal | vvaltone: ShaderEffectItems | 14:11 |
| lcuk | inline GLSL into qml? | 14:11 |
| RST38h | smoku: You cannot call the current "experience" usable, so effectively it cannot run. | 14:11 |
| lcuk | holy carp | 14:11 |
| sroedal | lcuk: yes | 14:11 |
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| sroedal | lcuk: with GLSL uniforms dynamically bound to QML properties, which can be animated with PropertyAnimation | 14:12 |
| lcuk | sroedal, I tohught QML was about not needing to be a developer! | 14:12 |
| lcuk | you need a PHD in GL shaders to read them | 14:12 |
| sroedal | lcuk: you'll pick shader effect items from an effect suite somewhere | 14:12 |
| lardman | sroedal: that's quite nice | 14:12 |
| RST38h | smoku: Now, QtQ adds the full JS with JIT and complex UI graphcs with all the attributes and features and attached JS event handlers and JIT structures for these handlers and whatever | 14:12 |
| RST38h | smoku: Do you think QtQ will be much simpler than Fennec then? | 14:12 |
| smoku | RST38h: the current fennec performance issue is not really javascript related :) | 14:12 |
| lcuk | haha | 14:13 |
| lardman | lcuk: that appeals, you can do something similar now in MATLAB with CUDA kernels (which are basically the same thing) | 14:13 |
| smoku | Venemo: and memory leaking is unfixable? :) | 14:13 |
| RST38h | smoku: it is memory footprint related | 14:13 |
| sroedal | lcuk: also, GLSL fragment shaders are fairly simple | 14:13 |
| lcuk | the scrolling around big picture in a window | 14:13 |
| * lcuk did that on n810 :P | 14:13 | |
| sroedal | lcuk: easy to play with | 14:13 |
| vvaltone | lcuk, that's why you use copy&paste, developerless GLSL programming | 14:13 |
| RST38h | smoku: Please notice: I am NOT questioning JS virtues | 14:13 |
| Venemo | smoku, I'm not saying it is unfixable, just that in its current state it is a catastrophe | 14:13 |
| RST38h | smoku: I am doing the quantative analysis of the JS-based UI solutions we have got right now, and do not see them as viable | 14:13 |
| smoku | RST38h: right. and I've been toying with Gjs and its memory footprint is very low. | 14:13 |
| RST38h | smoku: For general apps | 14:14 |
| RST38h | smoku: It is not the footprint of a single object either | 14:14 |
| sroedal | lcuk: you can just do import SomeonesAwesomeShaderEffectSuite; WavySmoothCurves { wavyness: 5.0; smoothiness: 2.0 } | 14:14 |
| RST38h | smoku: It is what happens when you require thousands and thousands of them | 14:14 |
| lcuk | sroedal, wavy bits are just one part | 14:14 |
| RST38h | smoku: Such as when maintaining a DOM tree | 14:14 |
| lcuk | and get in the way of the app itself! | 14:14 |
| sroedal | lcuk: sure, this applies to most effects :) | 14:14 |
| smoku | RST38h: is this the case of QML, or is it HTML DOM specific? | 14:15 |
| lcuk | hang on | 14:15 |
| RST38h | smoku: So, I am not really sure WHY anyone would like QtQ to become HTML5 | 14:15 |
| sroedal | lcuk: that's more of something you'd have in the homescreen background | 14:15 |
| RST38h | smoku: QML will also have to get a similar structure | 14:15 |
| * lcuk has other ideas for homescreen | 14:15 | |
| sroedal | lcuk: imagine downloadable homescreen themes based on QML | 14:15 |
| smoku | RST38h: i fully agree that HTML is not a good solution to make UIs. | 14:15 |
| RST38h | smoki: DOM describes an HTML document, but QML will require the same structure to describe the UI hierarchy | 14:16 |
| lcuk | sroedal, I don't need to imagine ;) | 14:16 |
| lcuk | well, the qml part maybe | 14:16 |
| lcuk | http://liqbase.net/liq.20110607_220246.liqdesign2.scr.png | 14:16 |
| sroedal | RST38h: QML is less verbose presumably | 14:16 |
| RST38h | smoku: For each visible form, I guess | 14:16 |
| lcuk | but make that in qml | 14:16 |
| lcuk | using such simple things as line drawing | 14:16 |
| lcuk | lots of line drawing | 14:16 |
| lcuk | and I will be happier to work with qml | 14:16 |
| RST38h | smoku: And I have not even got the the case where you have to make a video player or a dynamic game in QtQ | 14:16 |
| smoku | RST38h: but even manually created with C++ Qt UI already has a Widget tree, for distributing events. | 14:17 |
| RST38h | smoku: Where it will simply fold up without native implementation of the app | 14:17 |
| sroedal | lcuk: yep, that's a QML compositor :) | 14:17 |
| lcuk | sroedal, no, that is liqbase. | 14:17 |
| sroedal | lcuk: or potentially just a single-process QML application, with QML applets | 14:17 |
| RST38h | smoku: Right. But not the JS-related stuff | 14:17 |
| smoku | RST38h: there is not much difference whether you create this tree manually, or via markup language | 14:17 |
| lcuk | that runs now on n8x0 n900 ideapad etc | 14:17 |
| sroedal | lcuk: just thinking about how it could be done with QML | 14:17 |
| lcuk | qml looks like liqbase, not the other way round. | 14:17 |
| lcuk | ;) | 14:17 |
| RST38h | smoku: A strandard Qt tree does not store the CSS information like QML | 14:17 |
| RST38h | smoku: It also does not store the JS handlers and attached data | 14:17 |
| vvaltone | RST38h, what does a standard qt tree do with the css data then? apply it to properties? | 14:18 |
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| sroedal | RST38h: QtQuick 2 will give you dynamic video elements for a video player | 14:18 |
| lcuk | sroedal, :D will it have YUV format? | 14:18 |
| sroedal | lcuk: probably | 14:18 |
| lcuk | I hear better line drawing is coming in qt quick 2 | 14:19 |
| * lcuk has been pushing for this in many places | 14:19 | |
| lcuk | it is a requirement to draw lots and lots of lines | 14:19 |
| sroedal | you can always fall back to OpenGL ES 2.0 by writing custom items | 14:19 |
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| lcuk | sroedal, http://liqbase.net/20110526_002.jpg | 14:19 |
| lcuk | sroedal, I want to draw lines, they are important. | 14:20 |
| lcuk | we have lost the knowledge of how to wireframe things | 14:20 |
| RST38h | sroedal: thank you, and if I want to do something non-standard to the video? | 14:20 |
| RST38h | sroedal: image processing? conversion? text overlays? | 14:20 |
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| sroedal | RST38h: you can morph it into a rubber duck if you want with a ShaderEffectItem | 14:20 |
| smoku | RST38h: this is an issue with QML implementation then. not inherently related to using JS per se | 14:20 |
| vvaltone | what about glsl effects on the video? | 14:21 |
| sroedal | yep | 14:21 |
| sroedal | it's a texture in the end | 14:21 |
| sroedal | you might have to do your own YUV->RGB conversion | 14:21 |
| lcuk | sroedal, when is qt quick due to be released? | 14:21 |
| RST38h | smoku: Ok, so you want to do something to the video aside from playing it and transforming it into a rubber duck | 14:21 |
| lcuk | I will mark it on the calendar and ask then | 14:21 |
| RST38h | smoku: JS will not have enough performance and QML component will not have it implemented | 14:21 |
| RST38h | smoku: And you blame it on QML./ | 14:21 |
| sroedal | lcuk: Qt Quick 2 is still work in progress | 14:21 |
| smoku | RST38h: write C++ code for it then? | 14:21 |
| lcuk | I know, but when should I start bugging you about it? | 14:22 |
| RST38h | smoku: Please, do answer me: who is fucked at the end? | 14:22 |
| RST38h | smoku: I can just as well write C++ code for the rest of my app then | 14:22 |
| lcuk | q4 this year ok? ask at end of september? | 14:22 |
| vvaltone | So... how much larger will it be than current Qt? (megabyte, binary) :P | 14:22 |
| sroedal | RST38h: QML is much more convenient than C++ | 14:22 |
| lcuk | sroedal, depends on usecase | 14:22 |
| sroedal | RST38h: for rapid development | 14:22 |
| sroedal | sure | 14:22 |
| RST38h | smoku: Why would I agree to QML bloat and unportability when it does not even cover all my use cases? | 14:22 |
| sroedal | for UIs | 14:22 |
| smoku | RST38h: did I say JS is applicable to all thing imaginable? of course if you require some havy data lifting, you need to revert to native code. | 14:22 |
| RST38h | sroedal: VisualBASIC has been used for rapid development. Where is it now? | 14:23 |
| vvaltone | sroedal, I'd argue against that, it's fantastic for animated interfaces tho | 14:23 |
| lcuk | sroedal, I saw a really fancy pants QML based book store UI | 14:23 |
| lcuk | running on powerful x86 hardware | 14:23 |
| vvaltone | but just very basic interfaces, it's more work than plain qt | 14:23 |
| sroedal | RST38h: QtQuick 2.0 lets you integrate with C++ trivially | 14:23 |
| RST38h | sroedal: Delphi was used for rapid dev, Java was used for rapid dev. The graveyard is just full of these. | 14:23 |
| lcuk | but the UX was sluggish and juddering | 14:23 |
| lcuk | on what I consider high powered device | 14:23 |
| lcuk | (wetab) | 14:23 |
| smoku | anyway. If you can do a computer emulator in javascript, which works reasonably well, javascript can't be THAT bad on performance :) | 14:23 |
| RST38h | sroedal: Tk/Tcl let me integrate with C++ trivially for 10+ years | 14:23 |
| RST38h | sroedal; Where is Tk/Tcl nowadays? | 14:23 |
| lcuk | it needs qml performance tool running | 14:23 |
| lcuk | and streamlining quite a lot | 14:24 |
| sroedal | RST38h: what point are you trying to make? | 14:24 |
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| lcuk | if you want to know the app PM me | 14:24 |
| RST38h | sroedal: I am trying to make a point that QtQ does not appear to have enough advantages for the app developer to justify the required bloat. | 14:24 |
| smoku | and if you want to add scripting to UI, javascript is as good as any other scripting language, if not better | 14:24 |
| RST38h | sroendal: And you are trying to give me anecdotal (sic) evidence to the contrary | 14:24 |
| sroedal | RST38h: what kind of evidence would satisfy you? | 14:25 |
| * lcuk should try to implement liqflow in qml :) | 14:25 | |
| RST38h | sroendal: For which evidence I have not even asked you BTW | 14:25 |
| lcuk | or liqstars even :D | 14:25 |
| vvaltone | RST38h, have you ever used qml? | 14:25 |
| sroedal | RST38h: it offers huge productivity advantages | 14:25 |
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| RST38h | sroendal: I would like to see memory footprint stats for QML2 running an average app UI written in JS | 14:25 |
| sroedal | yep, me too | 14:26 |
| sroedal | it's not really done yet | 14:26 |
| RST38h | sorendal: And I would like these stats to be at the level of an average GTK+ or native Qt app | 14:26 |
| * lcuk is tickled that liqbase was confused with QML | 14:26 | |
| sroedal | it will be less than QML 1.0 for sure | 14:26 |
| RST38h | sroendal: Well, give me the QML1.0 app stats | 14:26 |
| lcuk | how about on level with pygtk or pyqt? | 14:26 |
| RST38h | lcuk: No, sorry. | 14:26 |
| lcuk | is pyqt or pyside better/faster than qml+js? | 14:26 |
| RST38h | lcuk: If I want Py* I will use Py*. | 14:26 |
| lcuk | I know, I am asking the question | 14:27 |
| vvaltone | I doubt it's faster | 14:27 |
| lcuk | since python+bindings to toolkit were historically the scripted method | 14:27 |
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| lcuk | that is the target audience for qml | 14:27 |
| lcuk | if their apps are faster then you have a positive push | 14:27 |
| sroedal | RST38h: I do not have those numbers off-hand | 14:27 |
| lcuk | Jaffa, how is attitude in qml for you? | 14:27 |
| sroedal | RST38h: not sure if anyone has done a detailed comparison | 14:28 |
| lcuk | since you have a python version and a qml version | 14:28 |
| vvaltone | javascript has had a lot of love from optimizers | 14:28 |
| sroedal | RST38h: it would be very useful to see indeed | 14:28 |
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| vvaltone | python not so much | 14:28 |
| vvaltone | I think I heard someone said it uses or will use V8? | 14:28 |
| RST38h | sroedal: see? so, in effect, you do not have any arguments | 14:28 |
| sroedal | RST38h: I've only been making arguments about convenience so far | 14:29 |
| RST38h | A Youtube video with some ppt slides and a short demo will not do | 14:29 |
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| sroedal | RST38h: full source is available | 14:29 |
| RST38h | sroedal: And, as convinience goes, there have been a plenty of very convinient rapid dev tools. All dead now. | 14:29 |
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| vvaltone | It's easy to make the argument for animated interfaces that users for some baffling reason want | 14:29 |
| RST38h | sroedal; I have listed just some for you. | 14:30 |
| vvaltone | personally, I don't like transients | 14:30 |
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| lcuk | transitions * ? | 14:30 |
| sroedal | RST38h: yep, there are also non-dead ones, like Flash | 14:30 |
| vvaltone | lcuk, whatever, when moving from state to another | 14:30 |
| lcuk | :D sroedal | 14:30 |
| RST38h | sroedal: Furthermore, if you are going to claim convinience as the main QtQ advantage, you will have to compare QtQ with Flash and HTML5 | 14:30 |
| omidp | hey guys how can i activate | 14:30 |
| sroedal | RST38h: https://qt.gitorious.org/qt-labs/scene-graph-demo/trees/master | 14:30 |
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| lcuk | vvaltone, slide in and zoom in are ok, but on the whole I agree | 14:30 |
| RST38h | sroedal: Again, the source to the demo proves absolutely nothing, sorry | 14:30 |
| sroedal | RST38h: why? you said your alternative was pure C++ | 14:30 |
| lcuk | just the data, presented well is enough | 14:31 |
| omidp | hey guys how can i activate mp3 and avi, mkv, etc and i dont have internet connection | 14:31 |
| RST38h | sroedal: I have said that QtQ, as it is being currently seen and advertised, should be compared to HTML5 and Flash | 14:31 |
| RST38h | sroedal: And proven to be better than these two, with numbers, before I believe it has any future | 14:31 |
| RST38h | sroedal; Should we go over what "numbers" means? | 14:32 |
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| vvaltone | RST38h, maybe if flash was rewritten, that'd be true | 14:32 |
| lcuk | vvaltone, what kind of apps do you write? | 14:32 |
| sroedal | RST38h: lines of code? | 14:32 |
| vvaltone | lcuk, all sorts | 14:33 |
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| lcuk | RST38h, sroedal - a developer proficient in toolkit can create applications better than somebody not proficient in toolkit. | 14:33 |
| lcuk | other toolkits do not look so good because of the learning curve | 14:33 |
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| sroedal | the numbers that matter are performance, memory footprint, and implementation effort | 14:34 |
| lcuk | RST38h, QML is undeniably powerful | 14:34 |
| lcuk | and for users of it it will pass all tests you attempt | 14:34 |
| sroedal | and of course end UI quality | 14:34 |
| lcuk | but merely saying it is crap is not very friendly | 14:34 |
| lcuk | or demanding specifics | 14:34 |
| RST38h | sroedal: also the number of platforms supporting it and the ease of porting | 14:34 |
| sroedal | RST38h: yep | 14:34 |
| RST38h | sroedal: also the amount of other (non-memory) resources required such as OGL support | 14:34 |
| RST38h | sroedal: So, if you want to prove something, start with these. | 14:35 |
| lcuk | sroedal, I am comfortable in visual basic | 14:35 |
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| RST38h | lcuk: my vacuum cleaner is undeniably powerful :) | 14:35 |
| vvaltone | lcuk, last one was a userspace usb gadget driver | 14:35 |
| lcuk | nice vvaltone | 14:35 |
| lcuk | for meego? | 14:35 |
| vvaltone | yes | 14:35 |
| lcuk | :D awesome! | 14:35 |
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| * lcuk likes hearing about new things in meego | 14:36 | |
| vvaltone | well, I do get paid for it | 14:36 |
| lcuk | even better | 14:36 |
| RST38h | sroedal: My guess though is that you will soon find out that QtQ requires a lot of memory, OpenGL, full Qt stack of 50-60MB, and is still a bit sluggish and jittery at the end | 14:36 |
| RST38h | sroedal: And that will be it. | 14:36 |
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| sroedal | RST38h: my prediction is that QtQ will perform better than the alternatives, as you can integrate native C++ modules | 14:38 |
| RST38h | sroedal: Once again, once I see that QtQ is a huge bottleneck in my otherwise native program, I drop it | 14:38 |
| RST38h | sroedal: this is how Tk/Tcl died by the way | 14:38 |
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| vvaltone | All I remember of Tk/Tcl was the hideous ui | 14:39 |
| lcuk | vvaltone, at the moment, I am trying to allow the n900-CE to import phone contacts directly | 14:39 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: QML is nice and fast and suits Attitude well; but the vagaries of doing cross-platform stuff in it are painful. | 14:39 |
| sroedal | RST38h: QtQ gives you that option | 14:39 |
| lcuk | so that when testing we test with a full cop of real data from the n900 :) | 14:39 |
| lcuk | Jaffa, reasonable review | 14:39 |
| lcuk | :D | 14:39 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: e.g. on Harmattan one needs to set an appropriate dataRate on the accelerometer; but only certain values are valid on other platforms (without telling you what they are) | 14:40 |
| lcuk | RST38h, with more people doing and trying what jaffa has done | 14:40 |
| sroedal | RST38h: HTML 5 / Flash ofc do not | 14:40 |
| lcuk | we will have more of the things you are seeking | 14:40 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: And the Qt Quick Components/MeeGo UX Components debacle is ridiculous. | 14:40 |
| lcuk | (comparisons, like for like with real apps) | 14:40 |
| lcuk | Jaffa, the data rate issue | 14:40 |
| lcuk | the camera on n900 and n8x0 was similar in that regard | 14:41 |
| lcuk | gstreamer on n8x0 had framerate | 14:41 |
| lcuk | on n900 it didnt | 14:41 |
| lcuk | and it took a while to suss out | 14:41 |
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| RST38h | sroedal: Actually, they do, just differently | 14:45 |
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| lardman | lcuk: no framerate on N900 camera? | 14:45 |
| lcuk | lardman, something like that | 14:45 |
| lardman | nah, it's just got an odd fraction which no-one can work out | 14:46 |
| lardman | so you use a range | 14:46 |
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| lcuk | if you specify the parameter, the camera does not work properly *hazy memory from long ago* | 14:46 |
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| lardman | yeah, because you can't specifiy the right values, but if you use a range with your desired value in the middle it does work | 14:46 |
| lardman | annoying though for sure! | 14:47 |
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| lcuk | ahahh lardman :D | 14:48 |
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| vvaltone | The new Nokia N900 with unknown framerate camera :P | 14:49 |
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| lcuk | vvaltone, infinite framerate | 14:52 |
| lardman | well the "~30fps, but if you don't specifiy it exactly gst doesn't like you"-camera ;) | 14:52 |
| lcuk | get it right ;) | 14:52 |
| lcuk | at the Intel Remastered event | 14:52 |
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| lcuk | one of the art pieces by Sara Hibbert was usingthe camera shutter effect to portray a modern version of 'Dancer with a Bouquet of Flowers' painting by Edgar Degas | 14:54 |
| lcuk | http://www.intel.com/en_uk/remastered/remaster.htm?artist=sh | 14:54 |
| lcuk | she took numerous photos of a dancer illuminated by strobe | 14:54 |
| lcuk | (reminded about framerates etc ;)) | 14:55 |
| lcuk | lardman, the entire IntelRemastered exhibition was cool stuff | 14:55 |
| lardman | hmm, I'll take it under advisement ;) | 14:56 |
| lardman | Holly would probably like it though | 14:57 |
| lcuk | lardman, the technology used on one of them was good | 15:00 |
| lcuk | full arduino control and webcam signal processing to detect people and movement | 15:00 |
| lardman | ah well that's more interesting | 15:01 |
| lardman | shame they had the pictures of the ballerina and not the hw then :) | 15:02 |
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| lcuk | lardman, yes, each artist used the best of their skillsets to remaster the work in their eyes | 15:02 |
| lcuk | there was no single way to intepret some | 15:02 |
| lcuk | one guy did a huge algorithmic animation that was aew inspiring and would be at home as a level in a modern game | 15:02 |
| lcuk | awe too | 15:03 |
| lardman | sounds cool | 15:03 |
| lcuk | yeah | 15:03 |
| lcuk | one of the artists ended up needing a state of the art render farm | 15:03 |
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| lcuk | so intel imported some of the fastest machines they had for him | 15:03 |
| vvaltone | I would've required one too | 15:03 |
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| lcuk | and the rendering was done onto bluray discs in high def | 15:04 |
| MeeGoExperts | [Off Topic] Hopefully a MeeGo Meetup will go ahead in Birmingham on the 23rd June. All are welcome. Food + Drinks + MeeGo speakers and discussions. | 15:04 |
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| lcuk | MeeGoExperts, :D how on earth is that offtopic dude! | 15:05 |
| MeeGoExperts | fuk knows | 15:05 |
| MeeGoExperts | Lol | 15:06 |
| MeeGoExperts | I didn't want to tread on any toes | 15:06 |
| lardman | hmm, would be good to attend | 15:06 |
| lardman | MeeGoExperts: so you mean off the current off topic, so back on topic? :) | 15:06 |
| MeeGoExperts | I ment more like - Hey - Quick side note type thing | 15:06 |
| lardman | only kidding, don't worry | 15:07 |
| * lardman heads off to do some daemon coding | 15:07 | |
| lardman | catch you all in a bit | 15:07 |
| MeeGoExperts | But i really want to start kicking off the UK MeeGo Scene and that starts with YOU guys. So if anyone can make it, then PLEASE do :-) | 15:07 |
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| lcuk | MeeGoExperts, ask miika if he wants to come | 15:08 |
| lcuk | we can head down from manchester perhaps | 15:08 |
| MeeGoExperts | which miika ? on IRC ? | 15:09 |
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| MeeGoExperts | Would be good to have you there. | 15:09 |
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| CosmoHill | lcuk: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-13722013 eep | 15:16 |
| lcuk | alterego, I got mail from hacktivate people | 15:17 |
| lcuk | There will also be the "Best Nokia hack": | 15:18 |
| lcuk | "Developers are free to use the development environment | 15:18 |
| lcuk | of their choice as long as it works on a Nokia" | 15:18 |
| lcuk | -- which will be an award of: | 15:18 |
| lcuk | * £1,000 cash | 15:18 |
| lcuk | * The promise of a pre-release Windows 7 phone | 15:18 |
| lcuk | as soon as they are available to Nokia internally | 15:18 |
| lcuk | (before they make it to the shops) | 15:18 |
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| toninikkanen | cool, then you can hack MeeGo onto that | 15:20 |
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| * lcuk looks at the number of weekend project hacks made to date and grins broadly | 15:23 | |
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| RST38h | Hacking Meego onto this thing does satisfy the formal requirement =) | 15:24 |
| toninikkanen | too bad the reward is what you need in order to participate, in this case | 15:24 |
| toninikkanen | kind of backwards | 15:24 |
| lcuk | RST38h, lol | 15:28 |
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| alterego | lcuk: yeah, so you're coming! | 15:35 |
| alterego | WOO! | 15:35 |
| alterego | I'm not gonna be alone :D | 15:35 |
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| lcuk | alterego, there are a number of people in London I need to go and see whilst there | 15:51 |
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| lcuk | so might have to get the spec/outline from hacktivate and then go to some meetings | 15:51 |
| lcuk | before coding on the nighttime | 15:51 |
| gri | Hello. Has anyone here managed to get the meego sdk running on Ubuntu 10.04? I just added the 10.10 repository, installed meego-image-creator etc. and have everything up except Xephyr :( I can run Xephyr on the host and then another one in the meego image - so I see something but it's way too small | 15:51 |
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| alterego | lcuk: I've managed to read in all entries in a dir supplied by the commandline | 15:53 |
| alterego | And parse the contact information. Just need to do the injection. | 15:54 |
| lcuk | :D | 15:54 |
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| * lcuk would rather the term was import | 15:55 | |
| lcuk | but whatever floats your boat | 15:55 |
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| alterego | the exe is called vcard-import :P | 15:55 |
| lcuk | omg exe :P | 15:55 |
| lcuk | infact, awesome exe | 15:55 |
| lcuk | vcard-import.exe | 15:55 |
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| alterego | not .exe | 15:55 |
| lcuk | just to annoy unix purests :D | 15:55 |
| * lcuk understands .exe | 15:56 | |
| thiago | add .sea.bin too | 15:56 |
| lcuk | because then it makes .so useful | 15:56 |
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| RST38h | ah, just add .bat and see how many will try running it | 15:57 |
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| toninikkanen | hack it with a baseball.bat | 16:08 |
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| lcuk | RST38h, | 16:21 |
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| lcuk | there was a set of image processing tools on the meego repositories somewhere, do you have the url to hand? | 16:21 |
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| toninikkanen | lcuk: meego-image-editor ? | 16:27 |
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| lcuk | :D toninikkanen | 16:28 |
| lcuk | http://maemo.gitorious.org/meego-image-editor | 16:28 |
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| lcuk | thanks, that was enough keyword to find in my bookmarks list | 16:28 |
| lcuk | I think it was libquill I wanted | 16:28 |
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| lcuk | I cannot recall why just now | 16:29 |
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| lcuk | but I know I needed it for something | 16:29 |
| alterego | lcuk appears the app is locking on manager.saveContacts() :( | 16:31 |
| alterego | Just stopped dead. | 16:31 |
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| lcuk | alterego, one at a time | 16:31 |
| lcuk | and this time ask the manager nicely. | 16:31 |
| alterego | Yeah, | 16:31 |
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| lcuk | alterego, perhaps you are not giving the manager the correct parameters for it to do its jobs. | 16:41 |
| alterego | Possibly | 16:41 |
| * lcuk notes this is the same in many areas of life | 16:41 | |
| alterego | You mean the constructor? | 16:41 |
| alterego | It should default to the correct backend, but who can be sure aye .. | 16:41 |
| lcuk | I don't know | 16:41 |
| lcuk | you just have a code block that does stuff | 16:42 |
| lcuk | that I don't know :P | 16:42 |
| w00t | alterego: don't use the synchronous API | 16:42 |
| lcuk | and telling me a non technical bug | 16:42 |
| w00t | fire off a QContactSaveRequest | 16:42 |
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| * lcuk notes many of his contacts are xmpp ones from collabora :) | 16:43 | |
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| lbt | does anyone know the location of the new Intel office in Espoo ? | 16:44 |
| w00t | lbt: off to apply? ;) | 16:44 |
| lbt | meeting ... but don't want to hassle people with small details like where it is ... :) | 16:44 |
| lbt | that'll come - but I want to book a hotel first | 16:45 |
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| CosmoHill | is XZ base or middle ware for Meego? | 16:49 |
| alterego | Well, this has but a spanner in the vcard import works | 16:49 |
| * alterego cracks open gdb | 16:49 | |
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| CosmoHill | dear lord | 16:52 |
| lcuk | alterego, I imported the basic info (including extracting photos) last night quite easily using my normal top down coding style | 16:52 |
| CosmoHill | why does Meego use such an old version of tar? | 16:52 |
| lcuk | I thought this sort of inport was normal for qt mobility? | 16:52 |
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| * CosmoHill is getting very confusing trying to file a bug | 16:54 | |
| alterego | lcuk: do you have a link to your source? | 16:54 |
| alterego | lcuk: so it worked for you is what you're saying? :P | 16:54 |
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| lcuk | alterego, I did not use mobility or anything, I just read the file and listed contents (used base64 to convert etc) low level stuff | 16:55 |
| lcuk | just wanted to see if it was feasible | 16:55 |
| * lcuk has replaced the static grid of contacts with one from phone etc | 16:55 | |
| alterego | Well, I've parsed all the data into QContact info | 16:56 |
| lcuk | alterego, the syncevolution way: http://syncevolution.org/blogs/pohly/2010/manipulate-evolution-kcalextendedmkcal-qtcontacts-pim-items-uniform-command-line | 16:56 |
| lcuk | alterego, you manually parsing too? | 16:56 |
| alterego | It's just the manager locks on saveContact | 16:56 |
| alterego | No, there's a parser in mobility. | 16:56 |
| lcuk | good | 16:57 |
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| lcuk | alterego, perhaps put the script onto repository somewhere | 16:59 |
| lcuk | or pastebin even | 16:59 |
| alterego | Yeah, just trying something first :P | 16:59 |
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| w00t | alterego: like I said, don't use the synchronous methods | 17:07 |
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| w00t | try using a QContactSaveRequest | 17:08 |
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| ahel | hi! i need that meego load rt3070.bin instead of rt2870.bin.i've tried blacklisting rt2870.bin but it doesn't load the right one. any hints? :) | 17:08 |
| alterego | w00t: why is it broken? :) | 17:08 |
| w00t | because the version in meego is broken afair, I don't know the details off the top of my head | 17:09 |
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| alterego | Great, m'kay, I'll give that a go. | 17:09 |
| w00t | asynchronous requests are the better way to go, anyway | 17:09 |
| alterego | Doesn't really make a difference, the command will block regardless :P | 17:09 |
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| ahel | if i create an alias in /etc/modprobe.d/dist.conf is it the right way? | 17:11 |
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| ahel | like this : | 17:13 |
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| ahel | alias rt2870sta rt3070 | 17:13 |
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| ahel | i didn't put ".bin" in the end because none upon have it, but i'm not sure about. | 17:14 |
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| lcuk | bbl | 17:21 |
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| ahel | any idea? | 17:22 |
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| gabrbedd | ahel: what are you trying to accomplish? | 17:29 |
| ahel | trying to load the right modules for my wifi gabrbedd :) | 17:30 |
| ahel | it is right looking at opensuse documentation? | 17:31 |
| ahel | i've searched zypper and found it was opensuse's stuff | 17:32 |
| ahel | i have a ralink rt3070 wireless adapter | 17:33 |
| ahel | but loads 2870 one... | 17:33 |
| gabrbedd | I don't think MeeGo has the driver for that one (I may be wrong). | 17:33 |
| gabrbedd | E.g. I had trouble making an RT3090 work with meego. | 17:33 |
| gabrbedd | They drivers in the mainline kernel suck. | 17:33 |
| gabrbedd | They have "hack-ish" drivers avail. from their website, though. I've had better success with those. | 17:34 |
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| gabrbedd | ...but you'll have to compile them yourself (which isn't terribly difficult to do). | 17:34 |
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| ahel | i've downloaded the .lib. do you think i need .co or .k (don't remember properly :) ) | 17:35 |
| ahel | from ralink website? | 17:35 |
| gabrbedd | The .lib? | 17:36 |
| gabrbedd | You the the .tar.gz | 17:36 |
| ahel | the firmware | 17:36 |
| gabrbedd | than do a `make` and `make install` | 17:36 |
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| gabrbedd | In linux, all drivers have to be compiled against your running kernel. | 17:37 |
| ahel | gabrbedd: ty i'll try that way | 17:37 |
| gabrbedd | And (unless I"m mistaken) your issue with the RT3070 is not just firmware... it's the driver. | 17:37 |
| ahel | yes in fact if i say modprobe rt3070 it says it cannot find it | 17:38 |
| ahel | but i didn't know that i had to compile :) | 17:38 |
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| lunamara | hi | 17:56 |
| lunamara | I need help with my wetab | 17:56 |
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| lunamara | somebody have a wetab? | 17:57 |
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| alterego | lcuk, w00t: works :D | 17:59 |
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| alterego | Takes a while though | 18:01 |
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| w00t | how long is a while? | 18:02 |
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| alterego | ~15 to 20 seconds. | 18:02 |
| alterego | For my 250 contacts. | 18:02 |
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| alterego | Holy cow, now I need a search function in qml dialer .. | 18:05 |
| lcuk | :) | 18:05 |
| alterego | Or at least a quick navigation technique .. | 18:05 |
| alterego | I'm going to reflash the image, then do a proper benchmark | 18:06 |
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| alterego | Oh and push to gitorious | 18:06 |
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| alterego | Then I'll see about packaging it for tomorrows ce image | 18:06 |
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| moystard | hello everyone | 18:07 |
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| * alterego feels well chuffed :) | 18:07 | |
| moystard | I have a problem with the MeeGo SDK 1.2 ... Impossible to make the emulator work with QEmu, I just have a grey screen when launching runtimes | 18:08 |
| moystard | I checked and kvm is loaded and the virtualization is enabled in my bios | 18:08 |
| moystard | do you guys have an idea? | 18:08 |
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| alterego | lcuk: I'm impressed with how well my qml list is coping with all the contacts though :D | 18:10 |
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| lcuk | alterego, first time it has had so many items? | 18:14 |
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| alterego | Yes | 18:15 |
| alterego | For me at least ;) | 18:15 |
| * lcuk sighs | 18:15 | |
| alterego | Wassup? | 18:15 |
| lcuk | hopefully this is not the same for whole of meego | 18:15 |
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| lcuk | testing components with real stuff on real working devices is required | 18:15 |
| alterego | Yes | 18:16 |
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| alterego | Maybe this is the first ;) | 18:16 |
| lcuk | not a thing on you specifically | 18:16 |
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| lcuk | it is easy to make components work well with just small bits of data | 18:16 |
| * alterego flashes clean image. | 18:16 | |
| lcuk | I am pleased yours has scaled a bit | 18:16 |
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| alterego | Well, I guess now I've got something to demo at the birmingham event ;) | 18:17 |
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| moystard | okay sorry guys, I just realised that kvm was loaded but apparently improperly it works now | 18:18 |
| moystard | thank you for your help | 18:18 |
| maligor | qemu certainly is relatively useless for any gui work, it's just impossibly slow | 18:19 |
| maligor | atleast on any images that can't do opengl passthrough | 18:19 |
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| * npm notes http://video.linux.com/rss.xml (feed of meego sf2011 podcasts, which can be viewed directly in firefox4&gnome-mplayer plugin w/o flash) | 18:30 | |
| thiago_home | cool, thanks | 18:31 |
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| npm | last conf thp made http://pipes.yahoo.com/pipes/pipe.edit?_id=33e4531a4cab1ffd01ff38c8d7cfb67c but for some reason it's not working | 18:33 |
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| npm | if anybody wants to dissect what's wrong, you could just give the old pipes address to gpodder or other podcast players and watch it there. | 18:34 |
| npm | though these days, by virtue of working, the browser seems to be winning.... | 18:34 |
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| npm | hmmm alas the feed is semi useless as it only shows http://video.linux.com/video/2055 through http://video.linux.com/video/2080 however there's also a http://video.linux.com/video/2000 and even a http://video.linux.com/video/1 which is mshaver's talk on i18n | 18:58 |
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| lcuk | Myrtti, Jukka wants a pink phone | 18:58 |
| lcuk | can you remember the url for the transfers? | 18:59 |
| lcuk | /stick ons | 18:59 |
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| npm | actually valid videos start at http://video.linux.com/video/1000 ... so not sure which ones correspond to meego conf | 19:01 |
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| Myrtti | lcuk: istyles | 19:06 |
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| sjokkis | Has anyone seen Jayabharath here lately? | 19:09 |
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| CosmoHill | ~seen Jayabharath | 19:10 |
| infobot | jayabharath <~jayabhara@nat/ti/x-zsuxyqwmjnbypkcw> was last seen on IRC in channel #edev, 6d 20h 7m 44s ago, saying: 'GPSFan: Awesome.. thank u'. | 19:10 |
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| gabrbedd | sjokkis: No, but he's pretty active on twitter (http://twitter.com/#!/jayabharath) | 19:15 |
| DawnFoster | X-Fade: ping | 19:15 |
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| alterego | Anyone know how I can blitz the contact database under meego handset? | 19:20 |
| alterego | i.e. remove all contacts. | 19:20 |
| lcuk | alterego, until today the contacts database was empty | 19:21 |
| alterego | :) | 19:21 |
| lcuk | thanks to work now you need to implement the cleanup function :P | 19:21 |
| w00t | alterego: did you try tracker-control -rs? | 19:21 |
| alterego | I thought we were using EDS? | 19:22 |
| w00t | no, you're not | 19:22 |
| alterego | I thought tracker was just interfacing with it -_- | 19:22 |
| alterego | So I was looking in the wrong place then :P | 19:22 |
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| ahel | hi! i'm trying to set up my wifi on meego netbook. i have a ralink rt2800/rt3070 wireless adapter. any suggestion? | 19:23 |
| ahel | *rt2870/3070 | 19:24 |
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| Saviq | lbt, X-Fade: the signer is dead on pub.meego.com, is that something you're aware of? | 19:26 |
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| ahel | it seems like it cannot associate | 19:30 |
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| gabrbedd | ahel: have you been able to get it working at all? (i.e. manually loading drivers etc.) | 19:43 |
| * gabrbedd didn't realize this was a USB wifi. Yikes! | 19:43 | |
| ahel | i've insered a usb wifi so it's not a problem that needs to be solved instantly | 19:45 |
| gabrbedd | ahel: And when you do that it works? | 19:45 |
| gabrbedd | ahel: so you're just trying to solve the `/etc/modprobe` problem? | 19:45 |
| lbt | Saviq: we don't have a signer | 19:45 |
| ahel | not now. sooner or later. now i need to work gabrbedd. :) | 19:46 |
| ahel | but i'll let you know | 19:46 |
| Saviq | lbt: ah that might be that, then... any idea why my package hangs in "building" state when the log says it's finished? | 19:46 |
| Saviq | it's the only package being built atm | 19:46 |
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| lbt | Saviq: will look | 19:47 |
| ahel | using arch i needed to blacklist 2700usb and then it was used to load "usb" that would work | 19:47 |
| alterego | Is it possible to push a project into gitorious without making it using their we iface first? | 19:47 |
| ahel | but here i have rt2870sta | 19:47 |
| alterego | I've done a git init in my new project and I want to publish it | 19:47 |
| gabrbedd | ahel: Instead of /etc/modprobe (which MeeGo doesn't do) -- try adding some manual commands in /etc/rc.local | 19:47 |
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| sjokkis | gabrbedd: i noticed, but i'm trying to contact him directly, and he isn't responding on email | 19:47 |
| gabrbedd | sjokkis: he may be AFK. I think he travels a bunch. | 19:48 |
| sjokkis | ah | 19:48 |
| Saviq | alterego: it's not possible in github, suppose it's so in gitorious, too | 19:49 |
| alterego | m'kay | 19:49 |
| alterego | Thanks | 19:49 |
| Saviq | lbt: actually... there's something bigger... | 19:49 |
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| Saviq | lbt: kernel panic for Fedora_15 builds? | 19:50 |
| lcuk | Saviq, there is a perl app to do repository creation in github | 19:50 |
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| lbt | Saviq: url | 19:51 |
| Saviq | lbt: hard, it gets reset | 19:51 |
| Saviq | https://build.pub.meego.com/monitor | 19:51 |
| Saviq | moving target | 19:51 |
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| jarock | hello people I have my nokia n900 with broken Meego have made the flash forget to take out sd card zuflashen unfortunately now I have no means or can someone help me | 19:51 |
| Saviq | lbt: will try and catch one for you | 19:52 |
| Saviq | lbt: should happen soon in https://build.pub.meego.com/package/live_build_log?arch=i586&package=osc&project=home%3ASaviq&repository=Fedora_15 | 19:52 |
| lbt | I see it | 19:52 |
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| Saviq | that's different than a moment ago | 19:53 |
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| Saviq | the same happened on i586 | 19:54 |
| lbt | http://pastie.org/2048514 ? | 19:54 |
| lbt | yes | 19:54 |
| Saviq | yup | 19:55 |
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| jarock | what can I do if the u key is not in nokia n900 it is kernel panic | 20:01 |
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| Saviq | jarock: difficult to understand your question | 20:06 |
| Saviq | do you mean that u doesn't work for you? | 20:06 |
| Saviq | I assume you mean while booting for flasher? | 20:07 |
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| jarock | I want to flash it and Meego forgot the memory card out to make now is not the flash | 20:08 |
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| jarock | yes I can not flash via usb since the same kernel panic occurs | 20:09 |
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| lcuk | remove battery, insert usb cable between computer and n900. start flasher utility. when it says "device not found, waiting..." insert battery into n900, thank me later. | 20:10 |
| jarock | does not want to have flash on it because Meego is a fault happened | 20:12 |
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| jarock | I can not flash :( | 20:17 |
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| lcuk | jarock, when you plug it into usb, what is the charging indicator light doing? | 20:19 |
| lcuk | throbbing or solidly on | 20:19 |
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| jarock | I Meego on it, he flashed finds the root directory and then comes not have anything on the kernel panic flashed EMMC | 20:21 |
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| jarock | the orange led lights up and it vibrates briefly | 20:21 |
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| GeneralAntilles | How do these people who have no idea how to unsubscribe keep ending up subscribed to the lists. . . . | 20:22 |
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| jarock | does anyone know how much it will cost close shop in nsc? | 20:23 |
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| jarock | :-( | 20:24 |
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| jarock | You can not force the flash somehow | 20:27 |
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| jarock | does anyone know how expensive it is to repair the nokia n900 | 20:34 |
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| Saviq | jarock: you don't need to repair it, if it's running | 20:35 |
| Saviq | have you followed lcuk's directions exactly? | 20:36 |
| jarock | I can not even do it with but will not do anymore and I can not flash | 20:36 |
| jarock | yes I did but I have vmlinux and everything that has ever been destroyed on the EMMC | 20:37 |
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| jarock | that is the problem so I can not flash in usb interface jumps he briefly but only as a state of charge | 20:38 |
| Saviq | did you: 1) turn it off 2) remove the battery 3) connect via usb 4) start flasher and wait for "waiting..." 5) put the battery back in | 20:39 |
| Saviq | what OS are you on? | 20:39 |
| jarock | meego | 20:39 |
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| Saviq | your host | 20:40 |
| Saviq | your computer, not the phone | 20:40 |
| jarock | ubuntu | 20:40 |
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| jarock | Ubuntu 10.04 on my computer | 20:40 |
| Saviq | and how does the device behave exactly when you follow the steps above? | 20:40 |
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| jarock | if I take out battery and then connect usb cable the led flashes but only 1 time then I start so because "flasher-3.5" then no battery inside reakion | 20:42 |
| Saviq | try holding 'u' while putting the battery back in - it should stay in flash mode | 20:43 |
| jarock | ok mom | 20:43 |
| Saviq | I'm not your mom | 20:44 |
| jarock | does not work | 20:45 |
| Saviq | are you sure your usb cable is ok and plugged in correctly? | 20:45 |
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| jarock | yes I am. It is as if I had the flash-mode function deleted | 20:47 |
| lcuk | I asked on maemo, when you just plug in the power/usb cable, does the led light show solid orange colour, or flashing orange? | 20:47 |
| jarock | led is not blinking | 20:49 |
| jarock | I can send the new flash and if so how much does it cost | 20:51 |
| jarock | ? | 20:51 |
| smoku | lcuk, it's pulsating orange while charging | 20:53 |
| lcuk | smoku, I was not asking you | 20:53 |
| lcuk | jarock, plug in the usb for an hour or so | 20:53 |
| lcuk | if the battery is really really low | 20:54 |
| lcuk | it will charge very slowly and show constant orange light | 20:54 |
| lcuk | then sometime after it will have enough charge to do normal stuff | 20:54 |
| lcuk | that is my experience | 20:54 |
| alterego | Think tonight I'll have an Omlette | 20:55 |
| jarock | t was just a txt init so where is kernel panic in there | 20:55 |
| * alterego wanders off to make dins. | 20:55 | |
| alterego | bbiab | 20:55 |
| lcuk | alterego, \o email me some of that | 20:55 |
| smoku | lcuk, who were you asking then? :) | 20:56 |
| Saviq | alterego: why an Omlette and not an omlette (or even better - an omelette)? | 20:56 |
| Saviq | smoku: he was trying to help jarock | 20:56 |
| alterego | Because an Omlette is much bigger than an omlette. | 20:56 |
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| alterego | Anyway, FOOD | 20:56 |
| smoku | Saviq, got it. but it looked like a generic question ;-) | 20:57 |
| jarock | I have constant orange light | 20:57 |
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| jarock | He briefly shows the nokia logo then he goes to a console via | 20:59 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk, does n900 have pixel doubling? | 20:59 |
| smoku | Stskeeps, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=47900&highlight=doubling | 21:01 |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, not that I have seen but ask RST38h or javis | 21:02 |
| lcuk | I know the XV mode does | 21:02 |
| lcuk | but that is a different question | 21:02 |
| lcuk | what are you wondering? | 21:02 |
| jarock | how expensive is that in one chicken | 21:03 |
| jarock | how much does it cost to flash the nokia n900 allow? | 21:04 |
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| lcuk | jarock, what language do you speak? | 21:06 |
| jarock | german | 21:06 |
| lcuk | the chicken is expensive | 21:06 |
| lcuk | plug in usb onto n900. do not try and flash it, just wait. | 21:07 |
| lcuk | until light flashes amber. | 21:07 |
| Stskeeps | plug in wall charger | 21:07 |
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| jarock | lcuk can you german? | 21:10 |
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| lcuk | I can only ask for a beer and a kebab, sorry. | 21:11 |
| lcuk | Can somebody please german to jarock | 21:11 |
| jarock | have it on charger | 21:12 |
| Saviq | ok, so I got qemu-arm and qemu-gl fixed for Fedora_15, how do I SR it to build.meego.com? | 21:12 |
| jarock | there does not blink | 21:13 |
| lcuk | jarock, ok. wait now for 60 minutes. | 21:13 |
| lcuk | until it flashes | 21:13 |
| lcuk | blinks | 21:13 |
| jarock | lcuk: and if it does not blink | 21:14 |
| * Saviq faceslaps | 21:15 | |
| jarock | Can this be repaired at the Nokia service center? | 21:15 |
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| lcuk | if in warranty, yes I believe so. but wait for now. | 21:15 |
| alterego | That was a bloody good (O)mlette. | 21:16 |
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| jarock | ok thank you in advance times when I can then call you back tomorrow | 21:18 |
| jarock | See you later | 21:22 |
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| Saviq | lbt: here's the other error I encountered http://pastie.org/2049210 | 22:52 |
| lbt | all using fedora 15? | 22:54 |
| Saviq | yes | 22:54 |
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| Saviq | the target is taken directly from build.opensuse.org, right? | 22:54 |
| lbt | it is | 22:55 |
| lbt | inter-obs link | 22:55 |
| Saviq | I'm gonna try to build on b.o.o | 22:55 |
| lbt | it could be due to worker configs though | 22:55 |
| lbt | eg running 11.4 (or 11.2) | 22:55 |
| Saviq | yeah the "kernel too old" probably is due to 11.2 being the host | 22:56 |
| lbt | yeah: kernel too old | 22:56 |
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| Saviq | but the missing libmount.so.1... | 22:56 |
| lbt | yes - I found a strange bug report on that | 22:56 |
| lbt | but that worker was using loop mount | 22:57 |
| lbt | which is really odd | 22:57 |
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| sergiusens | lbt: can you grant me access to the community obs? I'd be building stuff like zim and other utils/apps | 23:31 |
| lbt | sure | 23:32 |
| lbt | meego account | 23:32 |
| lbt | zim ... neat :) | 23:32 |
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| lbt | sergiusens: accout same as nick I hope ... done | 23:33 |
| sergiusens | yes it is, I'll try it out :-) | 23:33 |
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| sergiusens | working fine, ty | 23:38 |
| * sergiusens now needs to fine the time to get something in place there | 23:38 | |
| lbt | good - have fun | 23:39 |
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| berndhs | sign up requires a company name: http://www.linuxfoundation.org/publications/compliance/five-step-compliance-process-for-foss-identification-and-review | 23:58 |
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