IRC log of #meego for Tuesday, 2011-05-31

lcuk2gabrbedd, I added something to the clock to help jacob learn the time :)00:00
lcuk2http://liqbase.net/liq.20110530_191729.ciroclock_minutes_12h_time.scr.png00:00
ali1234blindfish: Qt hides nearly all the horrible things about C++00:01
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ali1234although it does introduce some weirs stuff of it's own, it's generally nowhere near as bad as C++00:01
blindfishokay, that sounds very good. thank you ali123400:01
gabrbeddlcuk2: hee hee. :-)00:02
ali1234blindfish: it does this using the moc, meta-object compiler00:02
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alteregoI think Steven Elop is an anarchist00:02
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gabrbeddCan anyone with N900 DE give me the answer to `rpm -qf /usr/bin/widgetsgallery`00:03
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lcuk2gabrbedd,00:05
lcuk2from the touchscreen frozen machine:00:05
lcuk2[root@localhost ~]# rpm -qf /usr/bin/widgetsgallery00:05
lcuk2meegotouch-demos-0.21.4-7.3.DE.armv7hl00:05
lcuk2[root@localhost ~]#00:05
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gabrbeddlcuk2: Great!  Thanks!00:05
lcuk2gabrbedd, in general00:06
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lcuk2the same folder where the image is00:06
lcuk2there is a packages folder00:06
lcuk2packages file00:06
lcuk2http://repository.maemo.org/meego/n900-de/daily/1.2.0.90.1.20110525.2.DE.2011-05-30.1/images/mg-tablet-armv7nhl-n900-de-acceptance/mg-tablet-armv7nhl-n900-de-acceptance-1.2.0.90.1.20110525.2.DE.2011-05-30.1.packages00:06
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lcuk2from today00:06
lcuk2it lists t he versions included in a specific image00:06
gabrbeddYes, but it doesn't explicitly map installed files to package names. :-)00:07
lcuk2roger00:07
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gabrbeddlcuk2: By the way, apparently that's the package with the screen shot thing.00:09
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gabrbeddaha!00:25
gabrbeddYou can use xwd as a CLI for getting screenshots.00:25
gabrbeddThat is, until weyland shows up....00:25
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pebcakgabrbedd didn't know?00:31
pebcakthat's how I do screenshots00:31
gabrbeddpebcak: nope.  I've never had to use that one before.  Always had something gooier to use.00:31
pebcakyeah, there usually is...00:32
pebcakI usually use scrot00:32
pebcakbut xwd was the only tool available under tablet ux....00:32
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pebcak(out of the box)00:33
SpeedEvilssh in with X forwarding, and you can use tools from desktop00:33
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pebcakxwd -display :0 -root -out foo.xwd is good enough for me... xforwarding...pfff00:37
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SrTrollsup00:46
SrTrollwhat is meego?00:46
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SpeedEvilIt's like a coconut.00:47
SrTrollhuh ?00:47
SpeedEvilAnd the smell of a badger on a dark road.00:47
SrTrollit's a fruit ?00:47
berndhsonly better00:47
SrTrollwow00:47
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SrTrollyou guys have an irc channel for a fruit ?00:47
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berndhswe have channels for everything00:48
SrTrolli see00:48
SrTrollbut00:48
* CosmoHill pokes Stskeeps and auke 00:48
SrTrolla fruit ?00:48
berndhsfruits, vegetables, meats00:48
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SrTrollw00t can't make up his mind00:48
SrTrolldoes he want to chat about fruit or not00:48
* SrTroll pokes CosmoHill00:48
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gabrbeddGuys, please don't feed the trolls.  Not even fruits and vegetables.00:49
* SrTroll slaps CosmoHill over the head with a trout00:49
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SrTrolluh oh00:49
SrTroll:P00:49
sofarSrTroll: thanks for your presence and contribution00:49
SrTrollno prob00:49
sofarif that's all, please leave00:50
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SrTrollok00:50
SrTrolllaterz00:50
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javispedroI must admit I kinda love your moderation style, sofar.00:50
gabrbeddsofar4tsg !00:50
CosmoHillif I was an op I'd be washing blood off my hands by now00:50
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CosmoHill(perhaps that is why I am not an op)00:50
CosmoHillspeaking of blood, I got bitten by a cat00:51
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sofarCosmoHill: tuna salad bath's suck00:51
berndhsi prefer more or less to cats00:51
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CosmoHillsofar: kudos on sorting it out without violence00:53
CosmoHillI should try this method some day00:54
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sofarSpeedEvil: I should give you a warning for replying to the troll in the way you did. You recognized the troll and fed him nonsense. Please don't do that and just ignore them.00:57
berndhsnon-violence often requires having a big stick00:57
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SpeedEvilSorry - I diddn't actually realise he was a troll.00:57
sofarif you want to have fun with trolls (allowed), do it in a private msg ;)00:57
CosmoHillhe was called SrTroll...00:57
SpeedEvilCosmoHill: Yes - I misread it.00:58
sofaryes, and you replied with "a coconut".....00:58
sofarlol00:58
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SpeedEvilI'll try to be a bit more sane.00:58
* CosmoHill offers coffee00:58
gabrbeddIf it happens again, this will go on your PERMANENT RECORD, young man.00:58
sofarlol00:59
sofarno00:59
DawnFosterHa, and I'm here to enforce that :)00:59
* gabrbedd wonders if teachers gave this threat outside of the US.00:59
berndhsit all goes on the permanent record, the channel is logged :)00:59
DawnFoster*kidding*00:59
sofarI will have forgotten about this tomorrow00:59
javispedroand then you will  be baked.00:59
DawnFostersofar is my favorite troll bouncer00:59
sofarbut ... it's good to discuss rules openly so we can improve on how we deal with irc vandalism00:59
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blindfishdoes anybody know a reason why the testing-images have about twice the size of the "latest"-images?01:00
SpeedEvilThere has been a recent effort to prune stuff.01:00
SpeedEvilSizes of videos, for example.01:00
lbtblindfish: episode 2 of Big Buck Bunny is out?01:00
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blindfishah, okay, thanks SpeedEvil ;)01:01
pebcakafaik some of them come with the graphical installer and some of them don't01:01
pebcakat least that's my experience01:01
lbtmmm01:01
lbtwould like to be able to do a diff on the .ks between images01:01
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pebcakhad to recover my wetab because of a 1.2.80 image flashing all over it01:02
pebcak;P01:02
lbtLoCusF: ^^  use case for you01:02
gabrbeddlbt: depending on what you're looking for... a diff on the package list might be more fruitful.01:02
lbtgabrbedd: we already offer that :)01:03
blindfishpebcak: didn't have to recover yesterday, cause the image from 27.5 just freezed before i could install it :P01:03
lbtDE should benefit first01:03
pebcakblindfish lucky you01:03
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gabrbeddlbt: oh, you mean like a web tool for OBS?01:03
pebcakI stay with the 1.2.0.90 images01:03
lbtgabrbedd: kinda ... pkgdb.meego.com/de01:03
pebcakseem to work well for me01:03
lbtgabrbedd: it's still in beta (ie doesn't work for me yet!)01:04
gabrbeddlbt: ah, that thing!01:04
lbtit's "just" a mysql DB of the packages in the images/releases01:05
lbta bit heavy on the js for my taste - but that's the web for you :)01:05
UmeaboyHi!01:05
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UmeaboyI wish there was a page on meego.com to see what devices Meego are tested on & how it works.01:07
UmeaboyIs that possible?01:07
sofarblindfish: sample-media package was split, cutting out ~160mb of all basic images01:07
gabrbeddUmeaboy: search in wiki.meego.com and the forums.01:08
pebcakwhat's with the installer?01:08
gabrbeddUmeaboy: you'll probably have better luck by asking about the specific device you're interested in.01:09
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blindfishgood night everyone01:10
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gabrbeddWhat's the workaround for the "error: Package already exists: %package debuginfo" thing?01:14
gabrbedd...for c.OBS, that is.01:14
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lbtgabrbedd: disable the debugbuild01:16
gabrbeddlbt: but then you don't get debug packages, right?01:17
lbtcorrect afaik01:17
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* gabrbedd grumbles01:17
gabrbeddok01:17
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lbtI think this is a MeeGo thing, not a c.obs thing01:17
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gabrbeddlbt: ok.01:19
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gabrbeddlbt: looks like it's just i586, too.  Seems like I've seen this before... many moons ago...01:20
lbttry #meego-arm too ...01:20
gabrbeddmy armv7el build worked fine with a debug package.01:21
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lbtgabrbedd: can't find anything about it on -dev or -packaging mls01:27
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lbtmmm spoke too  soon ... mentioned last november01:29
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gabrbeddlbt: looks like OBS will make debuginfo pkgs whether you want them or not.01:42
gabrbeddlbt: for i586, anyway.01:42
gabrbeddlbt: so if you set the debug flag for the build... it tries to double-up the debuginfo pkg or something.01:43
lbtit isn't something I've used personally01:43
lbtOK01:43
gabrbeddlbt: not blaming you or anything... just sharing info.01:43
lbtthat makes sense01:43
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lbtthanks, we need to work the OBS and build docs up a bit more01:44
lbtboth what the OBS does and how MeeGo uses it01:44
jarkko^is there ready built rpms for fc15 available anywhere for meego-tools *or* is there easy way to build them (OBS?)?01:47
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gabrbeddlbt: this looks like about the right spot... http://wiki.meego.com/Build_Infrastructure01:48
lbtno, yes (I think)01:48
gabrbeddlbt: but it doesn't come up high in the search list when searching for OBS.01:48
lbtgabrbedd: agreed - tidying it up would be nice01:48
jarkko^found the obs project but there's no yet fc15 target in obs01:50
lbtjarkko^: you could branch and build them on the c.obs01:50
lbtI was just checking to see if suse had f15... they do01:50
jarkko^yeah that would work, thanks01:52
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lbtjarkko^: OK , I just added it to the c.obs as a 'default' target01:55
* gabrbedd updates http://wiki.meego.com/OBS and http://wiki.meego.com/Build_Infrastructure/Packagers_Developers#Troubleshooting01:59
jarkko^gr8 :)01:59
UmeaboyI wonder if an Ipad would work well with MeeGo.02:00
UmeaboyIt's supposed to have an Intel-CPU so it might.02:00
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gabrbeddUmeaboy: I don't think it's an intel chip.02:03
gabrbeddUmeaboy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_A502:03
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gabrbeddUmeaboy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_A402:03
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UmeaboyOooooooh.02:04
UmeaboyTo bad.02:04
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sergiusenslbt: can you grant me access to the community obs? 'sergiusens' is my user name02:22
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gabrbeddsergiusens: it's almost midnight in the UK, so lbt might be AFK.02:25
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ali1234actually it's after midnight02:26
ali1234BST02:26
sergiusensah, ok, just saw a message half an hour ago from him and though I could catch him :-P02:26
gabrbeddsergiusens: Try sending an e-mail, and be sure to include a brief explaination of what you're working on and confirmation that it's OSS-only.02:26
gabrbeddali1234: true.  I was thinking UTC.02:27
sergiusensI'll just wait for him to come back some other time.  I don't have his email02:28
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npmhttp://www.engadget.com/2011/05/30/embargo-viewsonic-viewpad-10pro-boots-an-intel-oak-trail-cpu-i/ --> will it MeeGo??02:32
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npmit's a GMA 600: http://www.engadget.com/2011/04/11/intel-rolls-out-atom-z670-oak-trail-processor-for-tablets/02:35
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npmcarefully hidden in all the verbiage is that it's still a single core w/ hyperthreading02:40
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SpeedEvilThe other amusing thing is of course - you know people will want to run legacy apps on it.02:41
SpeedEvilWith all the mobile joy that brings.02:41
npmand also no mention of how much the integrated graphics processing steals from say, realtime audio DSP ( gabrbedd ? )02:41
SpeedEvilI do wonder if intel/t-gate will manage to hit impressive power numbers simply by being the only one with that tech.02:43
gabrbeddnpm: dunno.  i didn't know that the graphics and cpu competed at all on atom or anything else.02:43
* CosmoHill has a database exam in 13 hours :o02:46
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CosmoHillcyas02:50
berndhsgood night02:50
gabrbeddnighty night02:51
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akkAny OSC users? I'm trying to set it up, and I'm getting: Server returned an error: HTTP Error 401: basic auth failed04:24
akklike in this bug (but it's marked fixed even though nobody seemed to know what the problem was): https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=585304:25
MeeGoBotBug 5853 nor, Undecided, ---, jian-feng.ding, RESO FIXED, "401: basic auth failed" on osc commit04:25
akkand neither of the workarounds there are helping -- if I set keyring = 0 in .oscrc it still prompts for a keyring password.04:25
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BLUG_JulienHi, I am looking for some resources giving details on why Meego does not run on that many laptops (from a technical POV) can someone point at some links on that topic? Google has not been much help :-(04:26
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Texrathola04:29
Texratahoy04:29
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Texratand moi04:29
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Texrathey b0unc304:29
araujoBLUG_Julien, even though you can get meego in laptops , the system is mainly tailored for netbooks, handsets and ivi ..... and also some media  devices04:29
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BLUG_Julienaraujo: thanks, this, I can fully understand, what I see as an issue is that it makes it quite difficult for a curious user to give it a spin. I am not a troll so I don't want to argue about the fact that it is not easy (must have been done plenty of time) I am just interested in knowing what is the technical reason behind that04:32
gabrbeddJeez.  Who let Texrat in? :-p04:32
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gabrbeddMeeGoBot: supported processors?04:32
MeeGoBotgabrbedd: Supported Processors are http://wiki.meego.com/Supported_Processors04:32
gabrbeddBLUG_Julien: ^^^ this is probably your answer right here.04:33
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araujoBLUG_Julien, i don't think it is _complex_ ... but it might require some effort to properly get it running as a laptop/desktop system04:33
gabrbeddYou need a supported processor and video card.  The list is a little bit limiting.04:33
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gabrbeddThe technical reason:  Not many ARM-based laptops.  And also Intel is pushing their Atom/Core2 technology... so they're leveraging that instruction set (specifically the SSSE3 extensions).04:34
gabrbeddMeeGo is not opposed to other processors... but someone has to cough up the engineering and IT resources to support them.04:35
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araujoI don't think it'd be complex, but it does require effort04:35
araujonobody is stopping you if you want to do it :P04:36
BLUG_Juliengabrbedd: araujo thanks, I get it. It04:37
akkCan anyone here verify that osc is up, so the basic auth failure I'm seeing isn't just a down server? (Before I reopen the bug on it.)04:37
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gabrbeddakk: I've been building packages on c.OBS today.  Have you been able to get it to work at all?04:38
BLUG_JulienI will try to find a SSSE3 capable CPU around me then :D04:38
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akkgabrbedd: No, I just get that basic auth failure when I try the first step, osc -Ahttps://api.meego.com ls04:39
akkCan't get past that.04:39
gabrbeddBLUG_Julien: there's some virtual ways to do it (using the SDK with qemu)... but IMHO the best way is to get a used Core2 or Atom device.04:39
gabrbeddakk: it's possibly because you don't have auth on api.meego.com.  Your permissions are for api.pub.meego.com.04:40
akkOh! I'll try that, was copying-and-pasting commands.04:40
gabrbeddakk: That's supposed to be part of a script, also.  You have to pass that every time you use osc.04:41
akkYep! That's it. Is it normal for it to prompt for the keyring password 4 times?04:41
gabrbeddI don't recall... I set it up many moons ago. :-)04:41
akk(only twice if I run the command a second time)04:42
akkEven after setting it up, each new ls prompts twice.04:42
gabrbeddI never get prompted for passwords.04:42
akkI'd love to get it not prompting me at all.04:42
gabrbeddat least, not after it was set up.04:42
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akkI don't suppose you know how I could do that? I tried keyring=0 in ~/.oscrc but it doesn't make any difference, still prompts for keyring.04:43
akk(twice)04:43
gabrbeddakk: my keyring setting is the defaults.  (I.e. all lines with 'keyring' are commented out.04:44
gabrbeddakk: I also see my server user/passwd in the .oscrc file.04:44
akkIt put keyring=1 in the new entry it just made for https://api.pub.meego.com, so that's the default now, not commented out.04:46
akkBut it still prompts even if I comment it out or change it to 0.04:46
gabrbeddWhat OS are you on?04:47
akkUbuntu 10.04 natty, not running gnome (don't have gnome installed).04:47
akk(I mention that because I think the keyring is a gnome thing)04:47
gabrbeddtry this.... osc -Ahttps://api.pub.meego.com --no-keyring --no-gnome-keyring04:47
gabrbeddand see what it does.04:47
akkGives a long usage statement.04:48
akk... which does include both --no-keyring and --no-gnome-keyring04:48
gabrbeddWhat version of osc do you have?04:49
akkOh, maybe because there was no command?04:49
gabrbeddakk: likely, yes.04:49
akkBut if I add ls at the end, I get HTTP Error 401: basic auth failed04:49
akkosc is 0.130.104:49
akk(I apt-got it from the natty repositories)04:49
akkIn .oscrc, should the password be password= or passwd= ?04:51
gabrbeddpass04:51
gabrbeddpass=04:51
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akkAh, that works, with --no-keyring --no-gnome-keyring, and uncommenting plaintext_passwd = 1 in .oscrc04:52
akkThanks!04:52
gabrbeddtry without the keyring stuff.  sounds like the .oscrc just plain didn't have your passwd04:52
akkNope, if I remove those flags it prompts me for a keyring password.04:53
gabrbeddkk04:53
akkThat's okay, I have to alias it anyway since I don't want to type the URL every time, so I can add those flags to the alias.04:53
* akk makes notes to write a howto on this stuff 04:56
* gabrbedd hopes that akk improves http://wiki.meego.com/Build_Infrastructure/Packagers_Developers/CLI_Part_1 -- possibly adding a "troubleshooting" section.04:58
akkSure, happy to! Once I figure this out.04:59
akkNow I'm trying to figure out what a "home project" is. obs wants me to "enter some descriptive data" but I'm not clear what I'm supposed to be describing.04:59
gabrbeddakk: Don't get too hung up on that.  A brief description of the kind of packages you plan on working on.05:01
akkCLI_Part_2 assumes that step is already done but doesn't say anything about it.05:01
gabrbeddakk: The idea is for actual "projects", though.  E.g. "Add weyland to meego" or some such goal.05:01
* gabrbedd keeps misspelling wayland05:02
akkSo it doesn't really make any sense for users, except "everything I've written for meego" ?05:02
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berndhsyou can change it if it turns out to be inaccurate05:03
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gabrbeddakk: exactly.05:04
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akkDarn, CLI_Part_2 is all about checking out existing projects and creating new stuff is in "TBD"05:04
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gabrbeddakk: IIRC, check out your home project.  From there, add stuff as though it were svn.05:06
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gabrbeddakk: However, I think I created my projects using the web interface and then manipulated them using osc.05:07
akkThat sounds safer, at least for the first one. I'll do that too.05:08
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akkCreating a project didn't really clarify anything ... when I osc update it doesn't pull a new directory or anything.05:13
akkProbably at this point I should try pulling some random other people's home projects and see what they should look like (and hope I find someone who has working projects :)05:14
gabrbeddTry... osc co home:akk/my_cool_game05:15
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gabrbeddakk: You're akkana, right?05:17
akknope ... so maybe it didn't actually create the project?05:17
akkRight, I'm akkana05:18
gabrbeddakk: You created PyTopo as a "project" -- which essentially is a folder.05:18
gabrbeddakk: It needs to be a package.05:18
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akkIt has links to Add a new package once I've created the project ... I'll try that.05:19
akkJust give it the same description and so forth that I gave the project, I guess?05:19
gabrbeddyep.05:19
gabrbeddAnd go back and delete the home:akk:PyTopo project.05:19
gabrbedddoh... home:akkana:PyTopo05:20
akkOkay, I think I've done that. What's the difference between a package and a project?05:20
akkIt seemed to be prompting me to create subprojects inside home:akkana, so I thought that was what I was supposed to do.05:21
gabrbeddakk: a project is a folder full of packages.  A package is something that gets built and can be installed on a machine.05:21
gabrbeddakk: With the web interface, after I log in...05:22
gabrbeddakk: I click "My Projects"05:22
gabrbeddakk: Then my "home" project (home:gabrbedd)05:22
akkOkay, I've created a package.05:22
gabrbeddakk: Then in the menu at the top....05:23
gabrbeddakk: OK, I see it now.05:23
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* akk checks out home:gabrbedd to see what packages should look like05:23
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gabrbeddakk: After you add your package files... you'll need to set up build targets here https://build.pub.meego.com/package/show?package=PyTopo&project=home%3Aakkana05:24
gabrbeddakk: A build target says, "Build for meego_1.1_extras for i586 and armv7el"05:24
gabrbeddWithout that, nothing gets built.05:24
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akkWhat's kiwi? I've heard of the rest of the targets.05:29
akkI don't see a target for tablet UX, which is the only one I'm actually testing on.05:29
akkOr is that included in "MeeGo 1.2", since that doesn't specify specific UXes?05:30
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akkDoes it figure out how to build, look for a Makefile or a setup.py or whatever? It hasn't asked me how to do that, or what the dependencies are or anything.05:34
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gabrbeddakk: You have to do regular RPM building, meaning that your .spec file has all the info required to build your project.05:35
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akkI have a setup.py, and python setup.py bdist_rpm will make an RPM from it that works on meego.05:36
gabrbeddakk: As for the repos you build against... yes, I recommend MeeGo 1.2 core.05:36
gabrbeddakk: You're on your own with respect to compliance, though.  I think there's some tools to help you verify where you land in the compliance spectrum.05:37
akkBut they haven't asked that, so I'm wondering if it already knows to run python setup.py bdist_rpm if it sees a setup.py.05:37
gabrbeddakk: Hmmm... that's not how it's supposed to work.  It won't see setup.py.05:37
gabrbeddakk: You must supply a .spec file to generate your RPM.05:37
akkSo I should check in the .spec file python auto-generated from setup.py? Python put it in build/bdist.linux-i686/rpm/SPECS/PyTopo.spec05:39
akkbut I'm guessing it should go up in the toplevel?05:39
gabrbeddakk: That would be a good starting point.05:40
gabrbeddYes, it need to be in the top level.05:40
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akkNow I guess I wait a while until something tries to build? I see a table of "Build status" if I view my home project05:43
akkbut a lot of them say "excluded" and I don't know what that means05:43
gabrbeddakk: It should try immediately after you check your project in.05:43
akkand some say "unresolvable"05:43
gabrbeddhaha... did you set up enough targets?  :-p05:44
akkOkay, I think MeeGo_Trunk_standard just went to "failed" but when I click on it, it doesn't give me any error messages.05:44
akkIt's a python noarch thing, so I clicked everything that looked like it might have a UI and X.05:45
gabrbeddakk: one thing at a time.05:45
gabrbeddakk: unresolvable means that your dependencies weren't found.05:45
gabrbeddakk: click where it says "unresolvable: 1"05:45
gabrbeddakk: Then where it has a red "unresolvable", click that and it'll tell you which packages were missing.05:46
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akkthanks, got it05:46
gabrbeddakk: Do the same for the 'failed' ones... except that you'll get a log file.05:47
akkbut it doesn't make any sense :) "Nothing provides rpm, nothing provides gcc" (I don't use gcc, this is python!), "nothing provides rpm-build", stuff like that05:47
gabrbeddakk: that's the output of the build.05:47
gabrbeddakk: OK, take for instance "meego_1.0_core_Netbook" ...05:48
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gabrbeddakk: It's an empty project.05:48
gabrbeddakk: There's nothing in it.  It's a bad idea that someone aborted.05:48
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gabrbeddakk: I suggest starting with "meego_1.1_extras" and "meego_current_extras"05:49
gabrbeddakk: take off all the debian, fedora, and suse stuff until you get comfortable with how things work.05:49
akkThere are no "extras" targets in the list05:49
akkand I can't figure out how to remove any targets ... clicking on build targets from my home project lets me add more repositories, but the existing ones are all greyed out and unclickable.05:50
akkah, in "repositories" there are "remove repository" buttons05:51
akkbut still nothing with "extras" in it05:51
gabrbeddakk: looks like a bug.  At the top click "pick one via advanced interface"...05:52
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gabrbeddakk: and then I dunno.05:53
gabrbeddok.05:54
gabrbeddProject: MeeGo:1.2.0:oss05:54
gabrbeddRepos: standard05:54
gabrbeddNew name: meego_1.2_oss05:55
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gabrbeddand.... that didn't work.05:55
* gabrbedd sighs05:55
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akkno, didn't for me either05:55
gabrbeddah!  got it.05:56
gabrbeddMeego:1.2:Apps05:57
gabrbeddThe rest gets auto-filled-in05:57
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akkIt said it added it successfully, but when I go back to Overview it still says "this project has no build targets".05:58
gabrbeddI don't see the repositories defined for your home:akana project.06:00
gabrbeddCompare https://build.pub.meego.com/package/repositories?package=PyTopo&project=home%3Aakkana06:00
akkI removed all the ones I had before, as you told me to.06:00
akkNow I'm trying to add that one Meego:1.2:Apps via the advanced interface.06:00
gabrbeddAnd https://build.pub.meego.com/project/repositories?project=home%3Agabrbedd06:01
gabrbeddok.06:01
akkIt says "Build targets were added successfully" but it doesn't seem to have added anything.06:01
gabrbeddGo here https://build.pub.meego.com/project/repositories?project=home%3Aakkana06:02
gabrbeddUnder repository configuration, what do you see?06:03
akkJust "Add repositories" with a link on the Add.06:03
akkWhich is where I've been clicking to get to the place where I can click on the advanced interface.06:03
gabrbeddok.06:04
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gabrbeddApparently, whatever you did in the advanced interface didn't stick.06:04
gabrbeddDo it again and tell me what is entered for all the fields.06:04
Stskeepsahoy Texrat06:04
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akkOkay, I click on the advanced interface link; then I enter Meego:1.2:Apps under Project (if I leave off the last few chars and type something, there's an autocomplete dropdown for it)06:06
akkthen I leave everything else blank and click Add repository06:06
gabrbeddcan't leave it blank.06:06
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akkI was leaving it blank because you said "The rest gets auto-filled-in"06:07
akkNothing gets filled in, so I thought you meant after I click Add.06:07
gabrbeddYeah, but not ignored.  :-)06:07
gabrbeddNeeds to be...06:07
gabrbeddRepository: MeeGo_1.2_standard06:07
gabrbeddNew Name: MeeGo_1.2_Apps_MeeGo_1.2_standard06:08
akk"Failed to add build targets: The link target project Meego:1.2:Apps does not exist "06:08
gabrbeddArch: (whatever you want... I suggest i586, armv7el, armv8el)06:08
gabrbeddMeeGo -- not Meego06:08
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akkI left arch at the default, which was i586 and arm8el06:08
akkthough as a python project it should be the same for all arches06:09
gabrbeddThe project is MeeGo:1.2:Apps with a capital G06:09
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gabrbeddI think it's case sensitive06:09
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akkFunny that it autocompleted the dropdown just fine with "Meego" but didn't complete the other field.06:10
akkWith MeeGo it does complete the second field.06:10
akkOkay, it added it.06:10
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gabrbeddakk: ok, I see it.06:10
gabrbeddakk: you have 1 building and 1 failed build.06:11
gabrbedd:-)06:11
gabrbeddhappy hacking!06:11
akk"PyTopo-1.0.tar.gz: No such file or directory" -- so I have to check in a tarball too? It won't build it from the files in this repo?06:12
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akkI give up, I need to see a working python project or I'll be spending two years just trying random stuff trying to guess what it wants.06:12
gabrbeddakk: PyTopo.spec has a line that says "Source0: %{name}-%{unmangled_version}.tar.gz06:13
* akk wishes I could just check in my rpm file that WORKS FINE ALREADY 06:13
gabrbedd"06:13
gabrbeddHowever, you didn't provide that .tar.gz06:13
akkSee, Python has this wonderfully easy way of creating RPM files without needing to write every line of an RPM spec06:14
gabrbeddIf you want to build from misc. files in your folder... you have to do some clever stuff with Source0: Source1: Source2: lines.06:14
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akkand it does it all automatically06:14
gabrbeddakk: and does it create a .src.rpm ??06:14
gabrbedd(your python script, that is)06:15
akkI think there's a command for that, though for python there's not much difference.06:15
akkIt's not my python script, it's a standard part of python.06:15
akk(well, pytopo is my python script, but the thing that makes the rpm isn't)06:15
gabrbeddakk: you can ask on meego-packaging to see if there is or could be support for it.  But I wouldn't hold my breath.06:16
gabrbeddakk: Meanwhile, if you can get your script to spit out a .src.rpm06:16
gabrbeddakk: I suggest you do that.06:16
akkI think I just need to find some existing python packages and see what they do.06:16
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gabrbeddakk: Extract the .src.rpm into your project with magic like this:06:16
akkSo if I just check in a src rpm instead of the actual source files, it will do everything from that?06:17
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gabrbeddrpm2cpio PyTopo-1.2.3.src.rpm | cpio -id06:17
gabrbeddakk: No, you have to extract the contents of the .src.rpm and comment THOSE.06:17
gabrbedds/comment/commit/06:18
infobotgabrbedd meant: akk: No, you have to extract the contents of the .src.rpm and commit THOSE.06:18
akkOkay, cool, it extracted the tarball and the .spec file.06:21
akkSo I should check those in, and remove the other files?06:22
gabrbeddyeah.06:22
sofaror, you use autospectacle06:22
sofarand it makes a yaml/spec file for you :)06:22
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Texrathey gabrbedd06:23
gabrbeddsofar: oh, sure... now that things are nearly settled you go and stir it up some more, eh?06:23
gabrbedd:-p06:23
sofartee hee06:23
* Texrat waves hands, apparently invisibly06:24
gabrbeddTexrat: sorry... I thought you were replying to my invisible wave way up there ^^^^^06:24
gabrbedd:-)06:24
DawnFosterhey texrat06:25
Texratoops, I was away and forgot to set06:25
gabrbeddStskeeps: said hi, too.06:25
gabrbedderm....06:25
Texratyeah he and I are on chat06:25
gabrbeddTexrat: stskeeps said hi, too06:25
gabrbeddTexrat: whatcha talking about.  we need more transparency in your private dealings.06:25
Texratack06:25
Texratnot MINE06:25
Texratmy stuff is 99% open06:26
Texratbut other projects...06:26
gabrbedd:-p06:26
Texrathey if I'm not the lead, well...06:26
sofarTexrat: tell me about the 1% :)06:26
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akkOh, great, now it fails with: python: command not found06:26
Texrat1% is beating people up in private for being jackasses06:26
sofarsee, that is the interestign part06:26
Texratlol06:26
sofaranyone can write software06:27
Texratwe should invert it then?  :D06:27
sofarbeating up people, takes skill ;)06:27
Texratif done right, true06:27
sofarDawnFoster let's me politely beat up trolls in here ...06:27
Texratwell trolls are masochists06:27
gabrbeddakk: well, you didn't list python as a BuildRequires06:28
DawnFosterand sofar is so good at beating up the trolls :)06:28
Texratproblem is trolls like it06:28
Stskeepssofar: got an idiot's guide to systemd anywhere? we have a simple one that deals with some network setup connman doesn't do (usb networking)06:28
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gabrbeddakk: and the setup.py script isn't listed in your sources (also in the .spec)06:28
sofarStskeeps: why would systemd be involved in that?06:28
Texratok, gabrbedd, about open projects...06:28
Texratfeel free to climb aboard the Open Gaming Lobby train06:29
Stskeepssofar: ok, so, previously, it was a init.d script setting up usb0 configuration06:29
kartheeHi .. anybody from India ? wanted to know if beagle board ( rev C)  is available in india06:29
Texratkarthee beagleboard has an IRC channel that should help06:29
sofarStskeeps: what exactly does that init.d script do?06:29
gabrbeddakk: I recommend learning proper RPM packaging.  Looks like the setup.py script is creating FTBFS .src.rpm's.06:30
kartheeoh .. nice .. i ll ask there .. thanks06:30
sofarseems like we're missing some connman integration, or udev06:30
Texratsure karthee06:30
sofarhttp://0pointer.de/public/systemd-man/systemd.unit.html or even http://0pointer.de/public/systemd-man/06:30
Stskeepssofar: the problem is that connman refuses to deal with usb gadgets, so we have to manually ifconfig usb006:30
Stskeepssofar: thanks06:30
sofarbest resources around06:30
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sofarStskeeps: question06:30
akkgabrbedd: argh, I still haven't managed to learn deb packaging. Increasingly I'm thinking that the best way to distribute apps is to put the RPM on my website and hope users google for it.06:30
sofarStskeeps: if you run those few usb commands, does connman pick up the device from there on automatically?06:31
gabrbeddakk: I've done DEB packaging, and I've done RPM packaging.  I like RPM packaging better.06:31
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Texratakk, that's where you ask for help from packagers ;)06:31
iekkumorning06:31
gabrbeddakk: It makes more sense and is easier to learn.06:31
akkgabrbedd: If there are working python examples somewhere, I should be able to copy from that; if nobody has managed to package a python app yet, I'm not interested in being the first guinea pig.06:31
Stskeepssofar: so we had a conversation with the connman developers and they stated they don't support/don't intend on supporting g_ether type of things. we used to have a full fledged connman config for it but it was intensely unstable06:31
Texratakk I would talk to Khertan06:31
Stskeepssofar: this is mostly just "able to ssh in over usb" stuff06:32
sofarStskeeps: if yes, then just make a special usb-networking.service unit file that tweaks the usb device so it works06:32
Stskeepsok06:32
sofarStskeeps: ahhh ok, the n900 gadget stuff06:32
sofarIC06:32
Stskeeps:nod:06:32
gabrbeddakk: you won't be the first.  I see 125 python packages in my current tablet build.06:33
akkTexrat: Thanks, I'll keep an eye out (though I've never seen that nick here in the few weeks I've been around).06:33
Texratakk: let me get you info06:33
Stskeepssofar: we also found that we need some kernel configs since we had systemd complain on boot about missing /dev or something :)06:33
Stskeepssofar: (just sharing experiences, we found a fix, i think)06:33
sofarStskeeps: plenty of examples in Trunk already to pick from. You probably need a Type=oneshot service and start it in the same target as networking (multi-user.target.wants/etc)06:33
Stskeepsok06:33
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sofarStskeeps: you need to look at the `kernel` package changes, there's a commit with all the options in there that are now needed06:34
sofarDEVTMPFS, CGROUPS are the big ones06:34
Stskeepsok06:34
sofarthat part needs more docs though06:34
sofarStskeeps: is the arm kernel working right now?06:35
Texratheygbraad!06:35
Texratoops06:35
Texrathey gbraad!06:35
Stskeepssofar: we need to patch in Trunk:Testing, but we did our first attempted boot of 1.3 yesterday06:36
Stskeepssofar: resulting in the /dev problem ;)06:36
Stskeepsso within short time we should have things working06:36
Texratakk: here is Khertan's twitter profile for starters https://twitter.com/#!/khertan06:36
sofarStskeeps: well good06:36
Texrathe's done a lot with Python on Maemo06:37
DawnFosterwe also have a meego-python mailing list if no one has already mentioned it (I've been dipping in & out of irc)06:41
Stskeepsthp's talk was awesome - i really look forward to the video online so i can show to people how bloody easy it is to prototype06:41
gabrbeddStskeeps: which talk?06:42
Stskeepshttp://sf2011.meego.com/program/sessions/prototyping-and-developing-apps-python-pyside-and-qml06:43
gabrbeddStskeeps: thanks, I'll check it out.06:44
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akkThe python ML is pretty much inactive. But that's a good point, maybe it would be more active if people asked questions on it. :)06:50
akkI went to the talk, and the prototyping demo was great -- but he didn't talk at all about how to share code once you had it06:50
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akkand there was some good audience discussion about how many problems there were (no way to specify dependencies on python packages, or know what will normally be installed).06:51
Stskeepsi thought it actually picks those up automatically in rpm build06:55
Stskeepskinda like binary ones are06:55
akknope -- someone said there'd been talk of trying to write a script that would do that06:55
Stskeepshrrm06:55
akksome day, maybe06:55
Stskeepsi am fairly sure it runs something python related06:55
Stskeepsi remember fighting with rpmbuild about that when bootstrapping armv7hl06:55
akkheh, not on OBS -- my build was failing with "python: command not found"06:56
Stskeepshrm06:57
Stskeepsakk: got a build log06:57
Stskeeps?06:57
akkNot sure this will work if you're not me, but: https://build.pub.meego.com/package/live_build_log?arch=armv8el&package=PyTopo&project=home%3Aakkana&repository=MeeGo_1.2_Apps_MeeGo_1.2_standard06:57
akkIf it doesn't work, let me know and I'll paste it somewhere.06:57
Stskeepsok, so you definately need to Requires: python06:59
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akkIt won't be "command not found" if that requirement is there? That doesn't mean there's no python on the build machine?07:00
Stskeepsit does mean that python isn't a standard part of the build chroot being generated07:00
Stskeepsas you don't specify it has to be there07:01
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Stskeepsit makes a fresh build chroot each time :)07:01
akkokay ... I assume I need both Requires and BuildRequires, right? (since it needs python to run)07:02
Stskeepsah yes, i mean buildrequires07:02
akkalso pygtk07:02
Stskeepssorry about that, a bit jetlagged still07:02
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akkHow do I find out package names? I can probably guess python is python, but how would I add a runtime PyGTK requirement?07:03
Stskeepsbuild.meego.com and browse around, i suppose07:03
Stskeepsor look on repo.meego.com07:03
Stskeepsbrb07:03
sofarhere's what I do07:05
sofarzypper pa07:05
sofarlook for a -devel package07:05
sofarinstall it07:05
sofarsee if it installs /usr/lib/pkgconfig/foo-1.2.pc07:06
sofarif so, add07:06
sofarBuildRequires: pkgconfig(foo-1.2)07:06
sofarif not, add07:06
sofarBuildRequires: foo-devel07:06
akkmaybe I'll just skip the runtime requirement now, and try to remember to add it later.07:06
sofarif it's some other dependency, you'll have to use Requires or similar as appropriate07:06
akkI don't see it in the repo, but I know it's there in the image 'cause the program works.07:06
gabrbeddsofar: this'll tell you the package straight away.... zypper wp -C "pkgconfig(foo-1.2)"07:06
sofargabrbedd: that assumes you know "foo-1.2" is what the pkgconfig name is07:07
akkI'm not on anything that has zypper right now, and the table where I usually put the exo+keyboard is covered with stuff.07:07
sofargabrbedd: it doesn't work if some configure script outputs "Testing whether bla works .... no"07:07
gabrbedddoh... no -C option.07:07
gabrbeddsofar: well, sometimes I find it easier to find the pkgconfig name than the package name.  :-)07:08
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gabrbeddsofar: e.g. inspect the pkg-config folder on my Ubuntu box.07:08
sofargabrbedd: won't help if you have no -devel packages on your system - meego strips them all07:09
gabrbeddsofar: what won't work?  zypper wp?07:10
sofarif you don't know the pkgconfig name of a library, you cannot search for it07:10
akkIt's fairly easy to find out packagenames if you have a shell on the target machine.07:10
akkNot so easy otherwise.07:10
gabrbeddsofar: right.07:10
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sofarI just spent half night looking up dependencies for the Xfce4 repo07:12
sofarlol07:12
sofaradded removable media support and a ton of little tweaks and updates07:12
akkWoo! Maybe that depdency was all it needed -- I got a build "succeeded"!07:12
akkthough I do have to figure out the python-gtk package name so I can add runtime dependencies eventually.07:12
gabrbeddsofar: Reminds me... I've been meaning to write a script to parse the filelists of a repo so that you can search the repos for a file.07:13
sofarosc ls?07:13
akkThat would be super useful.07:13
Stskeepsgabrbedd: supposedly you can do zypper in /bin/ls07:13
gabrbeddsofar: e.g. repo-file-lookup "foo.h"07:13
gabrbeddStskeeps: yum does it.  zypper does not.07:13
Stskeepsah07:14
sofarshould pursue that upstream in zypper07:14
gabrbeddUpstream zypper does not want to add it, either.07:14
akkAlso a website like debian has (I think fedora has one too) where you can search for packages by name.07:14
gabrbedd(I found a ML post once upon a time)07:14
sofarwe should not maintain zypper hacks in meego07:14
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sofarakk: build.meego.com works well enough to search07:15
gabrbeddsofar: I was planning it as an aux script rather than a zypper hack.07:15
gabrbeddBut maybe if more people whine to the zypper devs they'll allow it to be added.07:15
sofarexactly07:15
akksofar: How do I search there for packages? I tried putting a couple keywords in the search field at the top and got nothing.07:15
* gabrbedd works on his pouty face07:16
sofarjust type package names, partials work07:16
sofare.g. 'foo' shows foomatic foobar foo foomatic-db etc.07:16
akkHmm, if I search for python, there's nothing matching 'gtk' in the page that it gives me07:16
sofarcuz07:17
sofargtk bindings are in pygtk07:17
akkah, searching for gtk got it, it's pygtk207:17
sofar^07:17
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Stskeepshmm07:19
StskeepsDawnFoster: http://lists.meego.com/mailman/listinfo (if you're awake still..)07:19
DawnFosterit's only 9pm here - not asleep yet :)07:19
DawnFosterugh07:20
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Stskeepsat least i don't see my meego-commits@ mails07:20
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gabrbeddBad Robot!07:20
DawnFosterping lbt X-Fade07:21
DawnFostersent adam gretzinger an SMS, too07:21
Stskeepsthanks07:22
DawnFosterok, Adam knows about it07:22
DawnFosterhe's on it07:22
sofarDawnFoster: something up?07:22
DawnFostermailing lists are down07:22
sofarwell poop07:22
DawnFosteradam is working to get the issue fixed07:22
sofaradaaaaaaaaaam07:22
sofarlol07:22
sofaradam is my hero07:22
sofarI feel bad asking him to do stuff for me07:22
DawnFosternot sure what the problem is (I'll refrain from bugging him until they are back up) :)07:22
DawnFosterStskeeps: thanks for the ping07:23
sofarlooks like a server went offline07:23
sofarno biggie07:23
DawnFosteryeah07:23
StskeepsDawnFoster: no problem07:23
sofararen't they mirrored somewhere?07:23
DawnFosterthey're also on gmane07:23
sofaranyway, gonna hack on the couch with a netbook for a bit07:23
sofarbbl07:23
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Texratgotta go, later all07:24
Stskeepssee you Texrat07:24
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DawnFosterlater!07:25
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timophmorning07:44
gabrbeddhowdy07:45
bkalingais it possible to run '/usr/bin/meego-im-uiserver' in root log in of meego07:47
bkalingai.e. inside root@meego-tablet-sdk:07:47
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iekkugabrbedd, should you be sleeping?07:53
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gabrbeddiekku: yes!07:55
gabrbeddiekku: you threw me off by showing up early.  :-P07:56
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pebcakmoin08:01
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LoCusFlbt: k08:23
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kavachahey, where can I find the nightly builds for the netbook release09:21
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bkalingais it possible to run '/usr/bin/meego-im-uiserver' in root log in of meego09:44
bkalingai.e. inside root@meego-tablet-sdk:09:44
bkalingaor using sudo09:44
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Stskeepslists are still messed09:51
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andre__lcuk: by going to https://bugs.meego.com/query.cgi?format=advanced and entering "-1d and Now" under "Only bugs changed between:"10:02
mikhasbkalinga, why the SDK? cant you first test directly on a device? IE, ExoPC, IdeaPad?10:02
mikhasthe SDK is just another layer of possible failure, and VKB - AFAIK - is not supported in MeeGo SDK10:03
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zinitgood morning10:10
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zinitmornings10:11
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lbtStskeeps: lists OK now?10:30
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thphow do I "contact the release team" and/or "contact the qtmobility maintainer" in meego?10:30
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Stskeepslbt: unsure, not getting any mails yet10:32
Stskeepsthp: sec10:33
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Stskeepsthp: officially it is noted as boudra / fabo but i think that's incorect10:34
Stskeepssec10:34
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Stskeepsthp: try prod janne110:34
zinitstrange on the meego website about the image with chrome. sais that the s10-3t doesnt have the broadcom card working out of the box... when I installed that image on mine it worked out of the box. only thing I had to do was to set up my wifi at home manually. for some reason it wouldnt connect to the one it found...10:35
ali1234some of them have atheros wifi10:35
zinitmine has broadcom10:36
zinit1.2 it worked no issue10:36
ziniton 1.1 I had to set up the wifi driver10:36
zinitand it was a bitch to get my iphone tethering working...10:37
thpStskeeps: on irc? basically i want to get bug 17461 fixed, which requires a "rm" command to be removed from the .ks file10:37
MeeGoBotBug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17461 nor, Low, ---, jerry.yu, NEED, Can't use Accelerometer Sensor in ExoPC with MeeGo Table pre-alpha OS10:37
ziniton 1.2 I have to use tethering via bluetooth, wont work via cable for some weird reason10:38
zinit(got same issue in ubuntu. in windows and sles 11 it works10:38
Stskeepsthp: ah - then you should mail meego-releases@ i guess10:38
zinitone thing that got me puzzled with 1.2 was that the native twitter support was gone... (had to use the solution from the forum to get it working)10:40
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tomeuStskeeps: wonder if http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-releases should be linked from http://wiki.meego.com/Release_Engineering#Team10:43
Stskeepsshould be probably10:43
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Stskeepsedit it?10:44
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tomeudone10:46
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tomeuandre__: do you know if that's the official way people should contact the release team?10:47
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Stskeepsit usually is the best way10:47
andre__tomeu, I have nothing to do with MeeGo release-team.10:48
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andre__I myself try to find out too, though :-P10:48
tomeuyeah, but I know you like processes ;)10:48
andre__tomeu, not if they are partially braindead... ;-)10:48
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iekkuandre__, :D10:50
tomeunext time I'm on a RT, I will also want to hide the contact10:50
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thpanyway, until that bug is (hopefully) fixed, one can get accelerometer fun on the ExoPC using http://wiki.meego.com/Devices/ExoPC#Accelerometer10:50
andre__tomeu: so shall I propose you once I will leave that other release-team I'm in. ;-)10:51
tomeunot sure, that RT seems to realize the importance of being contactable by the community10:51
andre__which one? MeeGo or Gnome? :-P10:52
Stskeepsi've not had trouble with meego release team lately, personally10:52
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andre__me neither, though some activity is just completely invisible. but we all know that... :)10:53
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thpargh! meego-releases@ wants me to be a subscriber.11:46
Stskeepsblah, meego-packaging@ is also good11:47
Stskeepswell, all lists require you to be a subscriber11:47
thpwhich kind of misses the point in my opinion for something like "being able to bring something to the release team's attention"11:49
Stskeepsgenerally, -packaging@ is for all packages, -releases@ is for release engineering (trunk, trunk:testing problems, repos, etc)11:50
X-FadeYou can subscribe and disable mails.11:50
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jksMwhen booting the MeeGo netbook live image I receive this error: "mount: / not mounted already, or bad option"  - "unable to re-mount root with SSD option"12:01
jksMhow can I solve this and get the system to boot?12:01
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jksM(booting on an Atom Z530 based board)12:03
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tomeujksM: you should have a more relevant error when it tried to mount for the first time12:11
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mak89kthe meego netbook emulator stalls after "starting meego" when run from the terminal linux.12:46
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maggiehi I just found that the getext pakcage at meego 1.2 repo is an empty archive which does not install anything, is it a known issue12:59
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jksMtomeu, no such error was displayed... I also tried booting without the quiet boot option, but didn't get such an error either13:05
jksMtomeu, even without quiet it stops emitting messages at some point, where it clears the screen and I get a blink cursor at the top left corner of the screen13:06
jksMis there a boot option for meego that will increase the verbosity of debug messages perhaps?13:06
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lcuk2andre__, thanks!13:07
tomeujksM: then maybe root was mounted correctly and it's a wrong remount option13:08
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tomeuand that remount may not be a real symptom of the problem you are having13:08
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Night-Hackshi everyOne13:55
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Night-Hacksi want to install Meego emulator on Ubuntu 10.04 what's the best way for it ?13:56
alteregoNight-Hacks: probably the sdk installation notes on the wiki13:56
Night-Hacksinstalling its SDK with apt.13:57
Night-Hacks?13:57
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Night-Hacksis meego 1.2 available ?13:58
alexGtry13:58
alexGhttp://developer.meego.com/guides/getting-started/getting-started-meego-v1.2-sdk-linux13:58
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Night-Hacksi wanted to install it via apt.13:59
Night-Hacksbut it looks 1.2 is available just in installer13:59
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Night-Hacksinstaller says14:08
Night-HacksError downloading14:08
Night-Hacksfrom ... amazon site !14:08
Night-Hackswhat's the problem14:09
Night-Hacks ?14:09
Night-Hacksi think it's amazon web services14:09
Night-Hacksany idea ?14:11
eg81Night-Hacks: are you sure that you have teh latest installer (20110519)?14:12
Night-Hacks eg81: yeah it is14:12
Night-Hacksserver replies forbidden14:13
jksMtomeu, I assume it's something that Meego "does"14:13
jksMtomeu, I wonder what that SSD remount option means (I'm running it off an SSD)14:13
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Night-Hacksthe first step is BUG !14:15
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maitreyHas anyone upgraded ubuntu-10.04 to 11.04 an dgot mic and osc working?14:44
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ali1234maitrey: never seen that stuff work on any ubuntu version... didn't bother trying 11.04 though14:45
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bkalingato which path third party application must be installed in case of Meego15:05
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bkalingai am using 1.2tablet image15:06
Greatgibbkalinga: /opt/my_application i think15:06
bkalingadrwxr-xr-x   2 root root  4096 2011-03-14 17:44 opt15:07
bkalingaopt is owned by root15:07
bkalingaso can my application create some generated files inside that15:08
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Greatgibbkalinga: http://gabrbedd.wordpress.com/2011/03/24/meego-compliance-why-installing-to-opt-is-a-good-thing/15:08
Greatgibbkalinga: the user is root when something is installed with the package manager, so the /opt/my_application could be created15:09
bkalingabut in Meego this folder is owned by root15:09
bkalingaso would it create any problem15:09
bkalingawhile you run your application as user "meego"15:09
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bkalingaconsider u run meego-im-uiserver as user "meego"15:10
bkalingathat loads a shared library which will create some temp files in /opt15:11
bkalingais it possible??15:11
Greatgibbkalinga: i'm not sure because I havn't a meego device near me, but put in the worst case, create a subfolder my_files in the .spec with the chmod 777 and then you will be able to do whatever you want inside it as a normal user :)15:11
gabrbeddbkalinga: /usr/bin is owned by root, also -- but there is no security issue.15:12
Greatgibbkalinga: when you first install you application and the .spec file is executed, the user is root, so you could do what you want15:12
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Greatgibbkalinga: so in your spec, you could ask to create all the subfolders you want with the right you want in /opt/my_application15:12
Greatgibs/right/rights15:13
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bkalingagabrbedd: can a process start with user meego can create temp files inside /usr/bon15:13
bkalinga*/usr/bin15:13
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bkalingaGreatgib: i understand while installing it can create15:14
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bkalingabut what about during the execution15:14
gabrbeddbkalinga: No, you cannot create temporary files in /usr/bin or in /opt -- but this wasn't your original question.15:14
Greatgibbkalinga: no because your a not supposed to do that, except if you want to ask for the sudo right to the user at runtime15:15
bkalingagabrbedd: that is my original question15:15
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gabrbeddbkalinga: you can create temporary files in /tmp or any any folder where the user has write permission15:15
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gabrbeddbkalinga: The preferred location is ~/.cache/my_appname/15:15
Greatgibbkalinga: but isn't it a solution for you to create at installation the folder: /opt/my_app/tmp15:15
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Greatgibchmod it to 77715:16
Greatgiband then as a normal user you could put files inside15:16
gabrbeddGreatgib: do not do that.15:16
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bkalingaLets say some third party application has a data folder where it has its own pre-installed content15:17
bkalingaand wants to add more into it15:17
bkalingathen now what is the best solution15:17
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Greatgibgabrbedd: it is not the best, but for example if you create a game and want to downlaod later the resources for it, that is a better place than ~/...15:17
bkalingai think there must be a standard folder for this in MeeGo15:18
gabrbeddGreatgib: why is it better than ~/.cache/ ??  That's what ~/.cache is for.15:18
gabrbeddAnd how is it better to put it in /opt for a single-user installation?15:18
bkalingaI dont prefer to put my application in ~/cache15:19
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chouchounebut why shouldn't it ask for root credentials if you try to install other things later ?15:20
gabrbeddCompliance spec allows you to also install in /var/opt/packagename15:20
Greatgibgabrbedd: in that case it is not cache datas, it is additional persistent datas15:20
gabrbeddAnd that's where it belongs.15:20
chouchouneyou can use opt, and then, when you want to update the installation, use opt again while asking for root password15:20
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Greatgibgabrbedd: /var/opt/packagename is a good place :)15:21
gabrbeddBut using ~/.cache/packagename is better than using giving /var/opt/packagename 777 permissions.15:22
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bkalingaLets say i install my application in /var/opt/kalinga/15:22
gabrbeddDon't install your application in /var/opt/kalinga15:23
bkalingahow can i give permission to "meego" so that it can write insto this path latter15:23
gabrbeddbkalinga: meego has full permissions to write to ~/.cache/packagename15:23
gabrbeddbkalinga: What is the problem with using ~/.cache ?15:24
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bkalingano problem but i had impression that usully people delete this folder15:25
chouchounebkalinga: why do you want to write inside your installation folder ?15:25
gabrbeddbkalinga: usually people have no clue that the folder exists.15:25
bkalingaainstallation folder contain some initial data15:26
chouchouneif it's temporary or congiguration data, it should be in the home folder15:26
bkalingaover the period of time that data needs to be modified15:26
gabrbeddbkalinga: however, they can delete the folder if they want to clean things up -- in which case you'll just re-download the data.15:26
chouchounebkalinga: just do like usual Linux programs15:26
chouchounesone default configuration inside /opt or /etc or whatever depending on the distributions's compliance15:27
chouchouneand then inside the home folder, user specific configuration changes15:27
bkalingachouchoune: when ever you say installation folder..what do you mean by that?15:28
chouchounethe user meego, over the time, will have the ability to change settings through it's own home folder15:28
chouchoune /opt15:28
chouchounewhere you have your binaries15:28
chouchouneand the program you launch15:28
chouchounebinaries/libraries/etc...15:29
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bkalingaok i prefer putting them into /usr/local/bin or /usr/bin /usr/local/lib /usr/lib15:29
bkalingabut i have kind of configuration data15:29
chouchounebut apparently it's not the Meego way to do it15:29
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chouchouneok, let me check meego compliance folders exactly ;)15:30
bkalingaplease point me to link if any exists15:30
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bkalinga gabrbedd: My understanding is binaries should go to ~/.cache/kalinga15:32
bkalingabut where must i put my configuration files15:32
gabrbeddbkalinga:  What?  No.15:32
chouchounehttp://gabrbedd.wordpress.com/2011/03/24/meego-compliance-why-installing-to-opt-is-a-good-thing/15:32
gabrbeddbkalinga: Install your application in /opt/packagename15:32
chouchounehere, it's written at the beginning15:32
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chouchoune/etc/opt/packagename I would say15:33
gabrbeddchainsawbike: /etc is for configuration files.15:33
gabrbeddbkalinga: When you install your package, all the files installed from the RPM are recorded in the RPM database.15:33
chouchouneyes, that's why your configuration should go to /etc/opt/packagename15:33
gabrbeddbkalinga: If you add extra stuff... how will RPM know to delete it when you uninstall?15:34
timoph%ghost15:34
timophor something like that iirc15:34
chouchouneand after, when running the application at the user level, you can update your configuration through a second conf file located in the user's directory15:34
bkalingatemp file are generated and cleaned up by the app15:34
gabrbeddbkalinga: How will RPM know to go and delete the stuff that you added in /var/opt/packagename/world_writeable_folder ?15:34
bkalingaso rpm does not need this info15:35
chouchouneand the configurations from there could override the "global configurations"15:35
gabrbeddbkalinga: RPM doesn't run your app.  It just cleans up files.15:35
* lcuk peeks in15:36
bkalingagabrbedd: your question was if I add extra stuff(i mean generated files during execution)15:36
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gabrbeddright.15:37
gabrbeddWill the extra stuff appear in `rpm -ql packagename`15:37
gabrbeddIf not, then you've undermined RPM.15:37
bkalingathey can not be accessed by rpm15:37
* Stskeeps ponders if meego-ux-components can be used on top of stock qt15:37
Stskeepsin windows15:37
* gabrbedd has to take kids to school, brb15:37
bkalingathey will be deleted by my application15:37
w00t_Stskeeps: it's installable on regular linux, at least, so it has some degree of portability15:38
bkalingabefore my app exits15:38
chouchounebkalinga: during the same execution that created them ?15:38
chouchouneok, so why not /tmp ?15:38
Stskeepsw00t_: requires meego-ux-daemon or not?15:38
lcukw00t_, what about the rest of the meego api?15:38
w00t_Stskeeps: not sure, villev might know15:38
Stskeepsor meego-qml-launcher15:38
Stskeepsok15:38
bkalingayes...Yes I agree those could have created in /tmp but i am using a third party  engine that does all this15:39
Stskeepsw00t_: i'm trying to have a compelling story for my wife to do meego app devel that does not in some way involve symbian components15:39
Stskeeps:P15:39
bkalingait takes my application settings as the base path to create those temp files15:39
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bkalingaso i cant change their behaviour rather place my stuff so that the third party lib works perfectly15:40
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* lcuk had tracy tagging and grouping sketches most of yesterday afternoon :)15:40
lcukshe said it was very relaxing15:40
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w00t_Stskeeps: -nod-.. if it doesn't already, it really will need to at some point for SDK15:41
lcukStskeeps, where are symbian components needed?15:41
lcukand why are they a bother if you write in qt/qml?15:41
Greatgibbkalinga: chouchoune: 2 things:15:41
lcukif anything that just shows another market for the same app15:41
Stskeepslcuk: well, because that's the only ones that work with qt creator with no runtimes needed15:41
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Greatgib1) i think that your configuration should go to /opt/application/etc and not /etc/opt/application15:42
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lcukStskeeps,ok so supposing you used that sdk to create a qt/qml app15:42
lcukand it runs on symbian15:42
bkalingaGreatgib: 2) binaries?15:42
lcukwhat is the developer story (since you like these) to just submitting it to meego?15:42
Greatgib2) To remove files in /var/opt/application_name/blablabla_dynamic_added_files, just add a "rm /var/opt/application_name/*" in the uninstall section of your .spec15:43
lcuki have liqcalendar in qt now15:43
Stskeepslcuk: probably no difficulty, but i'd like to have some kind of uniform inteface15:43
lcukand it shows on the symian simulator15:43
lcukso how can I deploy it to meego15:43
bkalinga2)binaries must go to : /opt/packagename correct me if i am wrong15:43
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Greatgibbkalinga: it is really simple, everything that is in your package go inside in /opt/my_package/15:43
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lcukStskeeps, sure thing15:44
lcukbut there are hundreds of similar qt apps now15:44
Greatgibyou could use something like "prefix" in your .spec so that files of your application that go to /usr/share , or /etc go to /opt/my_package/usr/share and /opt/my_package/etc15:44
lcukdesigned for small mobile15:44
lcukdesigned for low power use15:44
lcukwritten in the "right" toolkit (qt)15:44
lcukhow do each of those developers get them onto meego?15:44
Greatgiband for things that you will download yourself, of additional binaries and things like that, add that to /var/opt/my_application/*15:45
lcukat conferences around the world, hundreds of apps are made15:45
lcukbut we never see them deployed15:45
bkalingaas a user meego will u be able to write into /opt/my_package/15:45
lcukno matter how crappy15:45
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Greatgiband in your .spec add a rule at uninstall to delete everthing in /var/opt/my_package15:45
lcukat barcamp, I saw a talk/presentation for android that was publishing an android app15:45
lcukby the end of the presentation it was submitted15:45
Greatgiband for user configuration and things like that, put that in ~/.cache/ or ~/.my_application etc....15:46
lcukand on android marketplace thingy15:46
bkalingadrwxr-xr-x   2 root root  4096 2011-03-14 17:44 opt15:46
lcukthat is a developer story, how close in meego can we get?15:46
chouchouneGreatgib: An application shall be installed to /opt/packagename/ and, if necessary to the15:46
chouchoune/etc/opt/packagename/ and /var/opt/packagename/ directories. System wide15:46
chouchouneconfiguration files shall be placed in the /etc/opt/packagename directory, rather than directly in15:46
chouchounedata from a package, such as lock files, cached files, etc. shall be placed in the15:46
chouchoune/var/opt/packagename directory rather than directly in /var , unless a specific location is15:46
Stskeepslcuk: sorry, i lost track at "sure thing"15:46
chouchounenecessary for the application or system to operate correctly. User.specific files shall be stored in the15:46
Greatgibbkalinga: in your .spec file, you could change the rights of the folder of your application to whatever you want, but the best is to have things that never change in /opt/my_application15:47
chouchoune~/.config/packagename directory. The rationale for these rules is to avoid filename clashes15:47
infobotthat's too long, chouchoune15:47
chouchounebetween application packages and system files, by defining portions of the filesystem certain to be15:47
chouchouneunique to that application.15:47
chouchounesorry for the blood15:47
lcukwell Stskeeps you said you wanted a uniform interface15:47
lcukthe apps are written in qt15:47
Greatgib,things that change in /var/opt/my_application, and user specific things like configuration in ~/.config/my_app , ~/.cache/my_app, etc...15:47
chouchouneso configuration goes in /etc/opt/packagename rather then /opt/packagename/etc15:48
chouchounehttp://wiki.meego.com/images/MeeGo-Compliance-Spec-1.1.0.0.pdf15:48
chouchoune(for the Compliance doc)15:49
Greatgibchouchoune: yes it would be best :) But you could have my_config.default.ini un /opt/packagename/etc and my_config in /etc/opt/...15:49
chouchouneno15:49
chouchounedefault config should be on /etc/opt15:49
chouchouneand specific config in .config15:50
chouchounebecause specific config is dependent of the user's action15:50
chouchouneand can be changed at the user's level15:50
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Stskeepsmwichmann: is libmeegotouch currently in 1.2 compliance?15:56
mwichmannchecking15:56
w00t_I thought lmt was in platform APIs15:56
w00t_(i.e. not in compliance)15:56
mwichmannyes... these three packages are in the "full compliance" set15:57
mwichmann- libmeegotouch15:57
mwichmann- libmeegotouch-l10n-en15:57
mwichmann- meegotouch-theme15:57
Stskeepsok15:58
Stskeeps(damnit)15:58
* Stskeeps ponders if upgrading to a ABI/API compatible later version is proper or not15:58
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w00t_Stskeeps: provided they are compatible, why not?16:05
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Jaffaandre__: I dunno how you can read meego-qa. The lack of decent quoting, randomised replies etc has made my eyes bleed after just one day16:23
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w00tJaffa: at least it's a public ML16:29
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Jaffaw00t: I subscribed because of a comment of "we decided this in internal meetings"16:33
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iekkuJaffa, those ones are "very nice"16:35
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lcukJaffa, I have noticed that in genreal the qa- mails are formatted in an understandable manner and the guys in general perform well as a team16:46
lcukafter all, they are QA - they try extra hard to ensure quality in everything they do!16:47
iekkulcuk, :o16:47
alteregoHeh, pedants.16:47
iekkui need to stop mailing to keep the quality high :P16:48
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lcuklol16:48
gabrbeddIncrease MeeGo Quality: /kick alterego !16:48
gabrbedd:-p16:48
iekkunooooooo16:48
lcukwhy don't we ask png guy to be on the TSG?16:48
iekkugabrbedd, that wasn't so nice16:48
Stskeepslcuk: at least he asks questions!16:49
Stskeeps:P16:49
lcukindeed16:49
iekkui somehow missed the whole png guy thing16:49
* lcuk runs to #maemo and suggests abill for the council too ;)16:49
lcukiekku, he ensured that every TLA was described16:49
timoph:D16:49
lcuknone shall pass without his little question16:49
* gabrbedd hugs alterego16:50
iekkuhmmm, lcuk did you try to say "NIH" to him?16:50
lcuki was not at the conf!16:50
* lcuk never been to America16:50
w00tlcuk: you should have been! :p16:50
lardmaniekku: is that a reference to knights?16:50
lcukyes, I should16:50
lcukthe baby is not here yet either16:50
lardmanlcuk: you blacklisted then? ;)16:51
lcuklardman, flight would stop off in NY16:51
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iekkulardman, i think yes16:52
lcukI don't know if I am actually, I should try flying soon16:52
gabrbeddiekku: OK, this isn't a terribly positive article... but this is where I learned about the PNG-guy.  http://www.sdtimes.com/blog/post/2011/05/26/Meego-SF.aspx16:52
lardmaniekku: :)16:52
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lardmanlcuk: I had to go via NY when I went to SF last year16:52
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lcukthe knights who say Ni16:52
lcukare not the kinghts who say "Not invented here"16:52
alteregoI had direct flight from LHR-SFO and back16:52
lcuklardman, tracy wants to go to ny16:53
lardmanlcuk: ah I see16:53
lcukand shouted lots when I suggested going to the conf16:53
lcukand then got practical and moaned about baby16:53
alteregoHeh16:53
lcuk(which is estimated to be 8-9lbs already16:53
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alteregoIt's a shame you weren't there it was really good (at least for me) :)16:53
gabrbeddiekku: And GAN900 took a picture of him in my session... http://www.flickr.com/photos/generalantilles/5758755051/in/set-72157626686547465/16:53
lcukthis is going to be an engineering challenge!16:54
lcukalterego, yeah I know16:54
lardmanwhich one is he?16:54
lardmanand why isn't he labelled as the PNG-guy ? ;)16:54
lcukif it was even a fraction as good as the dublin conf, everyone will have set of things to do these coming months16:54
gabrbeddlardman: the asian fellow in the center of the picture, head down and sleeping.16:55
SpeedEvillardman: - left, front row16:55
lardmangabrbedd: ah ok, worn out from all his questions no doubt :)16:55
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SpeedEvilAnd writing his javascript.16:55
iekkugabrbedd, nice text16:56
lcukok real question: who in the channel now *uses* their meego device longterm for things?16:56
alteregolcuk: mine is on full time now, pretty much.16:56
wmaroneI like how he paints the PNG-guy as an example of how "non-technical" the conference was compared to Google IO16:56
lardmanMeego device?16:56
alteregoI'm using both, DE for calls, Maemo for email16:57
alteregoemail and internet.16:57
alteregoand music16:57
lcukalterego, so when hacking do you boot into meego16:57
lcukor have you multiple devices?16:57
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* lardman heads to meeting16:57
alteregoI have multiple devices.16:57
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lcuklardman, you need one I gather16:58
lcukbut catch you after meeting16:58
gabrbeddwmarone: Yeah, I disagreed with several things in that article.16:58
gabrbeddwmarone: However, when the dude walked in I really did wonder if he was a homeless guy looking for a place to rest.16:58
lardmanlcuk: I have an N900, but as I am working on mBarcode and most people still use Maemo, I've not had time to try Meego N900DE yet - planning to give it a go asap though16:59
lardmanbbiab16:59
lcukgabrbedd, you did gui principles class?16:59
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alteregoNice group of geeks: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=7222180&l=f0f310d52b&id=66672107716:59
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Jaffalcuk: I beg to differ about good formatting. Who said what in this email? http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-qa/2011-May/001690.html (to pick the one I was responding to)16:59
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gabrbeddlcuk: No, it was "Writing Interactive Audio Applications"16:59
wmaronegabrbedd: I can believe that, but to use him as a point with which to bash pretty much everyone there...16:59
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gabrbeddlcuk: A common mistake in writing an audio app is for the GUI to be too active.17:00
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iekkuJaffa, i feel your pain.17:01
gabrbeddwmarone: Well, his point was valid.  Without charging admission, you have no way to validate that you have qualified attendees.17:01
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gabrbeddwmarone: Thus, it's no big accomplishment to have a "capacity crowd" since anyone can walk off the street and attend.17:01
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gabrbeddwmarone: That said, his comments fly in the face of the spirit of MeeGo (openness and transparency).17:02
gabrbeddwmarone: I.e. the reporter just doesn't "get" what we're trying to do.17:02
wmaroneright17:02
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lcukJaffa, I said in general.  you can find corner cases for everything in life - this is obviously a passionate topic and you picked up on it for the internal meetings aspect and jumped into a conversation already ongoing and known by the participants17:03
lcukyou will probably find similar in many threads on any ML17:04
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lcukbut if you do feel it needs more structure then cool beans, high quality *should* be coming from the qa guys :)17:05
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iekkualterego, it seems that someone has really been present, i haven't seen any pictures of me in the conference17:06
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* gabrbedd coughs17:19
gabrbeddI though quality was more or less repeatability.17:19
gabrbeddSo as long as they consistently use poorly formatted e-mails, then it's all good.  Right?17:19
gabrbedd:-p17:19
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andre__Jaffa, I agree. I have to... :-/17:29
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lcukw00t, pass on congrats to brik17:34
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w00twill do, but she's off getting drunk atm17:35
w00t;)17:35
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lcukwhat does atm mean?17:36
Stskeepsat the moment17:36
lcukta17:38
lcukw00t, well raise a glass with her later17:39
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lcukoooh Intel Remastered art exhibition coming to Manchester this week17:56
* lcuk will go and visit17:56
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lardmanre18:06
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CosmoHillyoutube catchup tv + ad block = ad free tv18:07
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lcukn900i am going to reflash 0523 image because i cannot appear to use the latest :s18:11
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TsuyoHey guys, i wanted to try the new Meego release on my N900. I downloaded the "acceptance-1.1.99.7.20110516.2.DE.2011-05-23.1-mmcblk0p.raw" one. After reading the installation guide, i found out, i have to bring this raw into a new format. the guide says there are already prebuild ones. But why is there already a 1.2.80 build, when the 1.1.99.7 just got released?18:24
berndhsthe 1.2.80 is the branch for 1.3 development18:25
TsuyoSo to make it clear, the 1.2.8 is the less stable, but the newest version?18:27
berndhsthe something.80 is less stable than something-else.99, usually18:27
Tsuyo;). Allright, Thank you.18:27
berndhssaying "newest" implies that it is linear, but it isn't18:28
TsuyoOkay, so, i just wanted to try the 'newest' one, since the 1.1 version was kinda slow for me.18:29
TsuyoIt was a year ago, so i was just probably doing something wrong. But anyways ;)18:29
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niala18:33
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lcukwhere is the best place to look at the pipeline a QML object will go through18:38
lcukfrom parsing to object generation to rendering?18:38
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lcukStskeeps, regarding your 2012 thread, starting it off with "one of the disadvantages" is perhaps unfortunate wording!18:57
* lcuk was once asked about 2012 devices :)18:58
lcukstrangely enough as often as I have tried to get hold of that interview video I have not seen it since18:58
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* CosmoHill wishes his mac wouldn't try an index every external hard drive he connected19:00
lcukCosmoHill, lol19:02
* lcuk wonders how many people have seen that video to date and whether I was right in what I said in it19:02
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delacshould I install SDK if I plan to do Meego development ON Meego netbook? And if so, do I need to install the netbook target too?19:32
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lcukthis is a REALLY silly question19:38
* CosmoHill installs Fedora 1519:38
lcukbut is there a MeeGO SDK image yet?19:38
lcukie, like I get a pinetrail meego tablet UX image19:38
lcukcan I get a similar SDK image with osc/OBS all configured and ready to use19:38
lcukI have a machine here that will happily boot meego19:39
lcukbut wheneever I peer at OBS itis overwhelming19:39
Greatgiblcuk: you could install a normal image of meego  1.2 for netbook19:39
Greatgiblcuk: and then install developer tools19:39
lcuksure I could19:40
lcukbut you are missing the point of what I am considering19:40
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lcukI run meego daily already19:40
delachow well does that work?19:40
lcukI develop (non qt) apps in it19:40
Greatgiblcuk: there is a filter somthing like "developers-tools" so in one command with zypper you could install everything you need19:40
lcukbut whenever I try and configure OBS and osc and all the sdk stuff19:40
lcukit is confusing19:40
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berndhsqt-creator should work fine for non-qt stuff19:41
delacGreatgib: there is? can you be more specific?19:41
lcukGreatgib, suppose I cannot get on the network easily and that I just want to have an appliance in my house ready to use19:41
lcukberndhs, not really the point19:41
lcukbut perhaps would be fun19:42
Greatgiblcuk: you could clone one of a repo something like: repo.meego.com/..../release/...netbook/../1.2/packages19:42
Greatgibthere is not so much packages19:42
lcukGreatgib, I am a developer19:42
lcuknot a console wizard19:42
berndhswhat is the point ? OBS/osc ?19:42
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lcukI spent 10 years with visual basic and not a console in sight19:42
lcukI know about kickstart files19:43
delacGreatgib: maybe "zypper install -t pattern development-tools" ?19:43
Greatgibzypper install -t pattern development-tools19:43
Greatgibyes19:43
lcukand that they can have packages listed and preinstalled when used to make an image19:43
lcukso using your logic Greatgib19:43
Greatgiblcuk: Ah no, i was not saying if you want to create your own image19:43
lcuka generic meego netbook kickstart file could be modified to add all the sdk and OBS faff stuff19:43
berndhsah this leads me to a question, can I make my own zypper patterns19:43
lcukso that developer with spare netbook lying around can just install meego19:44
lcukand use it to make more meego19:44
lcukmeego + meego = MeeGo²19:44
lcuk;)19:44
lcukberndhs, yes19:45
lcuka pattern is just a group of like named packages I believe?19:45
newbie007actually it would be 2Meego19:45
lcuknewbie007, historically I am bad at math19:45
lcukand MeeGo² looks cooler :P19:45
lcukMeeGo²TheCinema19:46
lcukMeeGo²Lunch19:46
lcukMeeGo²ThePark19:46
lcukoooh19:46
Greatgiblcuk: http://wiki.meego.com/Image_Creation_For_Beginners19:46
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TSCHAKeeeMeeGo the Lunch Box!19:47
TSCHAKeeeMeeGo the Toilet Paper!19:47
GreatgibMeeGo²rocks ;)19:47
TSCHAKeeeMeeGo the FLAMETHROWER!19:47
TSCHAKeeemoychendising!19:47
berndhshey it works for Superman19:47
delacGreatgib: FYI, it's actually: "zypper install -t pattern meego-development-tools"19:48
* TSCHAKeee wants a Meegon plushie19:48
* CosmoHill makes a note to install MeeGo at some point19:49
Greatgibdelac: true :) too complicated to remember :p19:49
lcukGreatgib, did you miss the part where I as a regular joe bloggs app developer does not really understand the command line/console ancient runes19:50
lcukthanks for the link though :D19:50
Greatgiblcuk: There will be no fun if it was too easy and without command line invocation :)19:51
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lcukGreatgib, this is the issue19:52
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berndhscommand line is a lot quicker19:52
lcukthe divide between qt-creator simplicity in a way having click Play to run app19:52
lcukand being able to get that cool little app running on meego device itself19:52
berndhscan't you write a little bash script and run it from qt-creator ?19:53
akkqtcreator already has a button to click to run the app on the device19:53
lcukhistorically: windows developer.  open visual studio, make a few forms, generate binaries put msi file on website and let people have it on their windows machine19:54
lcukakk, no, it has a plugin19:54
lcukand targets and stuff19:54
lcukbut the amount of difference between my qt creator and yours is large19:54
TSCHAKeeethere was a huge fuck-up, in making so many SDKs19:54
lcukexample: I have the Nokia Qt SDK, which I got when they said there was a new one19:54
TSCHAKeeeapple has one SDK19:54
TSCHAKeeeAndroid has one SDK19:55
lcukI see app running in symbian/maemo simulator19:55
CosmoHilland your soul19:55
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lcukit is a nice app too19:55
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lcukand I want to try it on meego n900-de or on meego netbook or tablet builds19:55
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TSCHAKeeeand this isn't a "just shut up and code it problem"19:55
TSCHAKeeethis is a top management clusterfuck problem19:55
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TSCHAKeeeand until that is solved, this discussion is meaningless.19:56
lcukTSCHAKeee, really management problem?  which companies management ?19:56
delacwhy is zypper incapable of downloading anything? It jusr hangs on "retreaving". Connections are OK, so it's not that. And the "Manage Apps" App does install stuff.19:57
TSCHAKeeelcuk: precisely. but really this has to do with the fact that the Linux Foundation is completely neutered in this respect.19:57
TSCHAKeeean umbrella needs to take charge, and present a unified face.19:57
lcukok, so to ease this, how can we make a MeeGo SDK appliance image19:58
lcuksomething that is uable at conferences and training sessions19:58
lcukwith known configuration and setup19:58
delacah, maybe it was the repo. works now...19:58
lcukor just zypper slowness19:58
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delacmight be. it just hang again...19:59
lcukthere is a bug for it, hold on20:00
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lcukbug 1421920:00
MeeGoBotBug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14219 maj, Low, 1.1.90.4, qiang.z.zhang, ASSI, Zypper slowness before each operation20:00
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lcukTSCHAKeee,20:04
lcukwhat would a developer need to make new components for your thingamibob20:05
delacwell, it could be related, although I'm not sure. My problem just seems to be that the downloading of some of the packages doesn't begin.20:05
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TSCHAKeeelcuk: besides the C++ compiler, we provide all the tools needed. They're part of every installed system.20:07
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lcukTSCHAKeee, do you see people using them and get feedback about it?20:08
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TSCHAKeeethe problem is, very few people have approached the system... the number of interested users is much smaller than say, someone who uses an android phone20:09
TSCHAKeeeand even smaller than the number of android developers20:09
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TSCHAKeeefor every 200 users, we have 1 developer, and we have maybe 3000-4000 users.20:10
Stskeepsthiago_ARN: how many airports do you get to see the inside of yearly? :P20:10
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TSCHAKeeeso the developer base is small enough, that I work hand in hand with each one.20:10
thiago_homeStskeeps: do you want me to count?20:10
* thiago_home has a spreadsheet20:11
Stskeepshehe20:11
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* w00t thinks "flying around the world" must be in thiago_home's job description20:11
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thiago_homeStskeeps: 13 airports this year20:14
thiago_homeTMP was first time this year yesterday and ARN first time this year today20:14
Stskeepsnot bad20:14
thiago_home7 more if I go back to last20:15
thiago_homeJune20:15
thiago_home2 more last May20:16
thiago_homemy latest "new" airport was Dublin20:17
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* w00t is a lightweight at 6 airports so far this year20:18
w00t:-p20:18
thiago_homew00t: 6 distinct airports?20:18
w00tyes20:18
lcukthhis luggage however has been to 37534752873458238483248 different airports :P20:19
lcuks/thhis/his/20:19
infobotlcuk meant: his luggage however has been to 37534752873458238483248 different airports :P20:19
thiago_homelcuk: fortunately, no20:19
newbie007you might want to start declining the x-ray machine20:20
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newbie007maybe you're going for the laser vision, but I myself won't go though it without a search warrent20:21
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* lcuk wonders what intelremastered people will think of the calendar as "art"20:25
lcukmost artists leave signature on the bottom, mine is all over the place20:26
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lcuk"it is just before half past six."20:32
lcuk"it is half past six."20:32
lcuk:)20:32
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lcukfor completeness20:34
lcuk"it is just after half past six." :D20:34
berndhssee, you just can't go by the time, it keeps changing20:34
* lcuk goes for tea20:34
lcukberndhs, it is this: http://liqbase.net/liq.20110530_191729.ciroclock_minutes_12h_time.scr.png20:34
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berndhsvery nice20:35
lcukjake has been reading it everytime, it is helping teach him the time and how to communicate it20:35
berndhswith all this discussion about the SDK and the 2012 packaging20:36
berndhsI say MeeGo should make one time and stick with it20:36
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gabrbeddStskeeps: on the 2012 thing... are you more or less proposing something like a JIT compiler as a solution?20:38
lcukberndhs, according to my poorly coded calendar I lost a day in March20:38
lcukbut gain 2 back in autum20:38
lcukautumn20:38
berndhsah probably a boring day anyway20:38
mwichmannSamoa's losing that day in December...20:39
Stskeepsgabrbedd: so, c++ -> llvm il -> native code.. not necessarily JIT but you can do that too i suspect20:39
Stskeepsgabrbedd: read the PNaCl paper20:40
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gabrbeddStskeeps: ok, I grok it now.  Whenver I see LLVM I think "Large Volume Manager" EINVALID20:41
berndhsdoesnt this replace developer effort with load time CPU, basically ? or is it build time ?20:41
Stskeepsbasically in tampere mikko terho from nokia said about compliance "who cares about compliance, i just want to run qml".. which is very true20:41
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berndhsif it's build time for packaging, that's ok, if its load time or run time, that's detrimental20:41
Stskeepsit does change the landscape quite a fair bit20:42
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gabrbeddStskeeps: ACK on QML-only deploys.  But I think your proposal is worth considering.20:42
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Stskeepswe're 2/3rd there, 3rd one is that the qt quick extensions aren't portable20:43
Stskeepsie, native code20:43
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gabrbeddRight.20:43
berndhsStskeeps: the Qt components aren't even portable across verticals20:43
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berndhsso 2/3 it kinda optimistic at the moment20:43
gabrbeddjeez.  mic2 keeps crashing my laptop.  What's up with that?20:43
Stskeepsgabrbedd: stop using btrfs20:44
Stskeepsberndhs: right, but at the moment you still need to make two apps for meego arm and for meego x8620:44
gabrbeddStskeeps: oh my gosh.  are you serious?20:44
Stskeepsgabrbedd: i'm very serious, that was the main cause of my mic2 problems20:44
berndhsno you just need to build them, that's relatively easy20:44
berndhsfor the verticals you need to write new code20:45
* gabrbedd sighs again20:45
Stskeepsgabrbedd: uname -a20:45
gabrbeddStskeeps: The host machine isn't using BTRFS, but the target image is.20:45
Stskeepsgabrbedd: yeah, i know20:45
Stskeepsgabrbedd: we had really nasty lockups on our builders at times20:46
w00tnot to mention the fun bugs on device20:46
berndhsso I think it is optimistic to say 2012 the limiting factor will be building ARM vs x86 or 32bit vs 64bit20:46
gabrbeddStskeeps: Did I tell you about my BTRFS kernel oops during MeeGoConf... in the middle of a demo on Monday.20:46
gabrbedd?20:46
Stskeepsgabrbedd: no, but i would probably have gone "hah-ha" if i had seen it20:46
Stskeeps:P20:46
Stskeepsgabrbedd: generally btrfs is well behaving on modern kernels like .37 but below..20:47
gabrbeddC'mon.  I was toting the party line:  "btrfs is the future"20:47
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berndhsgabrbedd: it is the future. Next month :)20:48
Stskeepsgabrbedd: yeah, i stopped believing that when without telling anyone, non-installer images of meego was suddenly turned away from btrfs20:48
Stskeeps:P20:48
gabrbeddWell, looks like I wasn't using btrfs in my mic2 build.20:48
gabrbeddso that's probably not it.20:48
Stskeepsalright20:48
gabrbeddStskeeps: argh... I didn't know that.20:48
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gabrbeddHmmm... but my log file says "Loading btrfs..."20:50
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Stskeepsauke: \o/ also works, i was really surprised to see the concept extended :) will make life a -lot- easier21:01
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* npm has meego-lem ized his tablet and written first meego ux components test app21:11
aukeStskeeps: hmm? the debug stuff?21:11
Stskeepsauke: yeah21:11
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aukeyou know, I spent like a week trying to get `debuginfo-install` working on zypper21:11
aukelol21:12
npmcouldn't last for more than a few hours of development w/o it... (missing tools: mercurial, waf, etc)21:12
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lcukStskeeps, PNG guy would certainly ask this: What is PNaCl ?21:16
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Stskeepslcuk: "RTFM"?21:16
Stskeeps;)21:16
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lcukyou mentioned it here in IRC21:17
lcukthere is no FM :P21:17
lcukby the way, you say that you have to make 2 apps for meego at the moment21:18
lcukthat is normal OBS thing where it makes 5 or so variation packages?21:18
lcukor did you mean having to code/create 2 distinct apps21:18
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lcukahh I see the RTFM thing21:20
lcukPNaCl:21:20
lcukPortable Native Client Executables21:20
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berndhsphosporus sodium chloride21:20
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lcukDawnFoster, what do you know about the IntelRemastered exhibition21:47
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lcukI know ShaneWalters from OneDotZero was at one doing some glow in the dark clay a few days ago21:47
lcukand its coming to Manchester this week21:47
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DawnFosterlcuk: honestly, nothing :)21:48
DawnFosterIntel is a big company21:48
lcukfair enough21:48
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lcukI wonder what they will make of my digital painting :)21:48
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* npm wonders what kernel/drivers/usb/misc/trancevibrator.ko is all about :-)21:49
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timakimanpm: maybe thats the real reason for 3.0 :D21:50
delacso, if I install the SDK on Meego netbook and  plan on only developing for the netbook, do I need targets?21:51
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lcukdelac, everybody needs targets.21:51
lcukwithout them we wouldn't get anything done.21:51
lcukbest answer is: try it21:51
delac...21:51
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npmso on the exopc's, is there a way to get the bluetooth working?21:54
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fiferboynpm: From what I have heard the hardware is working and supported, but there is a bug in MeeGo21:56
fiferboyHopefully it will be corrected with an upcoming release21:56
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Night-hackshi22:00
Night-hacksive installed Meego SDK on Ubuntu22:00
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Night-hacksdo i need anything else for running my apps on Meego emulator ?22:01
fiferboynpm: https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1759522:01
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MeeGoBotBug 17595 maj, High, ---, kai.chai, NEED, [REG] No Bluetooth firmware on EXOPC22:01
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npmfiferboy: thanks ... yeah seemedd like missing module or fw22:08
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lbt_helit's quiet here23:06
Sagelbt_hel: btw, did you sent any post's about the vendor thing to some ML after SF?23:07
lbt_helnot yet...23:07
lbt_helI started writing a wiki page23:07
Sagelbt_hel: also when would you like to add more BOSS functionalities to DE project? Now that SF is behind we have time to break some things.23:07
lbt_helwould love to :)23:08
lbt_helphaeron: ping23:08
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Sagewiki page out in the open or just drafting in some note app?23:08
lbt_helI checked and I didn't hit save before getting in the taxi :(23:08
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phaeronlbt_hel: pong23:09
lbt_heloh hey23:09
SageI would like to see BOSS creating for example reports how the submits look like. Not acting based on those but to create reports at least so we could see how it would go.23:09
lbt_helI'm thinking we can start doing BOSS stuff on thur/fri23:09
lbt_helyes - it kinda does that already23:09
phaeronwe can do anything after tomorrow23:10
lbt_helbut we don't have any checks yet23:10
lbt_helI should say ... we've not tied any to the DE process23:10
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phaerondidn't get that .. :)23:12
lbt_heljust meant that we don't actually call any/many of the pre-checks23:13
phaeronyeah the process needs love of course23:14
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SpeedEvil:)23:22
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newbie007any experiances with meego emulated from VirtualBox or others? Which image would you suggest I grab for this purpose?23:39
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Alison_ChaikenI've used meego with qemu but not VirtualBox.   Try the netbook ISO.23:46
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newbie007I'll report my experiances. VirtualBox was my favorite, now that it's labeled Oracle I'm not so sure23:50
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dm8tbrnewbie007: vbox is tricky23:52
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dm8tbrnewbie007: the whole 3d thing never worked for me on the netbook images (after installing the vbox additions everything fell apart ui wise)23:52
Alison_Chaikennewbie007, if you're using fedora or ubuntu, you can easily install qemu.    If you google "meego PCBSD qemu" you'll find what I did before (not that it's complicated).23:53
lbt_helhey Alison_Chaiken23:53
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lbt_helbye23:53
dm8tbrohai, you're in the country :)23:53
newbie007I always avoid that additions thing23:54
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dm8tbrnewbie007: problem is that most of the UI relies on openGL23:55
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newbie007I was about to treat this meego-netbook-ia32-1.2.0.img file as a bootable CD,, that's not right is it.... This is an image not an iso...23:58
dm8tbrmight work23:59
dm8tbrI keep forgetting if vbox will take it23:59
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gabrbeddnewbie007: it's both.23:59
gabrbeddnewbie007: it's an ISO image and a live USB stick image.23:59

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