IRC log of #meego for Tuesday, 2011-05-31

lcuk2	gabrbedd, I added something to the clock to help jacob learn the time :)	00:00
lcuk2	http://liqbase.net/liq.20110530_191729.ciroclock_minutes_12h_time.scr.png	00:00
ali1234	blindfish: Qt hides nearly all the horrible things about C++	00:01
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ali1234	although it does introduce some weirs stuff of it's own, it's generally nowhere near as bad as C++	00:01
blindfish	okay, that sounds very good. thank you ali1234	00:01
gabrbedd	lcuk2: hee hee. :-)	00:02
ali1234	blindfish: it does this using the moc, meta-object compiler	00:02
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alterego	I think Steven Elop is an anarchist	00:02
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gabrbedd	Can anyone with N900 DE give me the answer to `rpm -qf /usr/bin/widgetsgallery`	00:03
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lcuk2	gabrbedd,	00:05
lcuk2	from the touchscreen frozen machine:	00:05
lcuk2	[root@localhost ~]# rpm -qf /usr/bin/widgetsgallery	00:05
lcuk2	meegotouch-demos-0.21.4-7.3.DE.armv7hl	00:05
lcuk2	[root@localhost ~]#	00:05
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gabrbedd	lcuk2: Great! Thanks!	00:05
lcuk2	gabrbedd, in general	00:06
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lcuk2	the same folder where the image is	00:06
lcuk2	there is a packages folder	00:06
lcuk2	packages file	00:06
lcuk2	http://repository.maemo.org/meego/n900-de/daily/1.2.0.90.1.20110525.2.DE.2011-05-30.1/images/mg-tablet-armv7nhl-n900-de-acceptance/mg-tablet-armv7nhl-n900-de-acceptance-1.2.0.90.1.20110525.2.DE.2011-05-30.1.packages	00:06
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lcuk2	from today	00:06
lcuk2	it lists t he versions included in a specific image	00:06
gabrbedd	Yes, but it doesn't explicitly map installed files to package names. :-)	00:07
lcuk2	roger	00:07
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gabrbedd	lcuk2: By the way, apparently that's the package with the screen shot thing.	00:09
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gabrbedd	aha!	00:25
gabrbedd	You can use xwd as a CLI for getting screenshots.	00:25
gabrbedd	That is, until weyland shows up....	00:25
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pebcak	gabrbedd didn't know?	00:31
pebcak	that's how I do screenshots	00:31
gabrbedd	pebcak: nope. I've never had to use that one before. Always had something gooier to use.	00:31
pebcak	yeah, there usually is...	00:32
pebcak	I usually use scrot	00:32
pebcak	but xwd was the only tool available under tablet ux....	00:32
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pebcak	(out of the box)	00:33
SpeedEvil	ssh in with X forwarding, and you can use tools from desktop	00:33
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pebcak	xwd -display :0 -root -out foo.xwd is good enough for me... xforwarding...pfff	00:37
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SrTroll	sup	00:46
SrTroll	what is meego?	00:46
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SpeedEvil	It's like a coconut.	00:47
SrTroll	huh ?	00:47
SpeedEvil	And the smell of a badger on a dark road.	00:47
SrTroll	it's a fruit ?	00:47
berndhs	only better	00:47
SrTroll	wow	00:47
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SrTroll	you guys have an irc channel for a fruit ?	00:47
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berndhs	we have channels for everything	00:48
SrTroll	i see	00:48
SrTroll	but	00:48
* CosmoHill pokes Stskeeps and auke		00:48
SrTroll	a fruit ?	00:48
berndhs	fruits, vegetables, meats	00:48
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SrTroll	w00t can't make up his mind	00:48
SrTroll	does he want to chat about fruit or not	00:48
* SrTroll pokes CosmoHill		00:48
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gabrbedd	Guys, please don't feed the trolls. Not even fruits and vegetables.	00:49
* SrTroll slaps CosmoHill over the head with a trout		00:49
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SrTroll	uh oh	00:49
SrTroll	:P	00:49
sofar	SrTroll: thanks for your presence and contribution	00:49
SrTroll	no prob	00:49
sofar	if that's all, please leave	00:50
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SrTroll	ok	00:50
SrTroll	laterz	00:50
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javispedro	I must admit I kinda love your moderation style, sofar.	00:50
gabrbedd	sofar4tsg !	00:50
CosmoHill	if I was an op I'd be washing blood off my hands by now	00:50
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CosmoHill	(perhaps that is why I am not an op)	00:50
CosmoHill	speaking of blood, I got bitten by a cat	00:51
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sofar	CosmoHill: tuna salad bath's suck	00:51
berndhs	i prefer more or less to cats	00:51
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CosmoHill	sofar: kudos on sorting it out without violence	00:53
CosmoHill	I should try this method some day	00:54
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sofar	SpeedEvil: I should give you a warning for replying to the troll in the way you did. You recognized the troll and fed him nonsense. Please don't do that and just ignore them.	00:57
berndhs	non-violence often requires having a big stick	00:57
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SpeedEvil	Sorry - I diddn't actually realise he was a troll.	00:57
sofar	if you want to have fun with trolls (allowed), do it in a private msg ;)	00:57
CosmoHill	he was called SrTroll...	00:57
SpeedEvil	CosmoHill: Yes - I misread it.	00:58
sofar	yes, and you replied with "a coconut".....	00:58
sofar	lol	00:58
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SpeedEvil	I'll try to be a bit more sane.	00:58
* CosmoHill offers coffee		00:58
gabrbedd	If it happens again, this will go on your PERMANENT RECORD, young man.	00:58
sofar	lol	00:59
sofar	no	00:59
DawnFoster	Ha, and I'm here to enforce that :)	00:59
* gabrbedd wonders if teachers gave this threat outside of the US.		00:59
berndhs	it all goes on the permanent record, the channel is logged :)	00:59
DawnFoster	kidding	00:59
sofar	I will have forgotten about this tomorrow	00:59
javispedro	and then you will be baked.	00:59
DawnFoster	sofar is my favorite troll bouncer	00:59
sofar	but ... it's good to discuss rules openly so we can improve on how we deal with irc vandalism	00:59
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blindfish	does anybody know a reason why the testing-images have about twice the size of the "latest"-images?	01:00
SpeedEvil	There has been a recent effort to prune stuff.	01:00
SpeedEvil	Sizes of videos, for example.	01:00
lbt	blindfish: episode 2 of Big Buck Bunny is out?	01:00
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blindfish	ah, okay, thanks SpeedEvil ;)	01:01
pebcak	afaik some of them come with the graphical installer and some of them don't	01:01
pebcak	at least that's my experience	01:01
lbt	mmm	01:01
lbt	would like to be able to do a diff on the .ks between images	01:01
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pebcak	had to recover my wetab because of a 1.2.80 image flashing all over it	01:02
pebcak	;P	01:02
lbt	LoCusF: ^^ use case for you	01:02
gabrbedd	lbt: depending on what you're looking for... a diff on the package list might be more fruitful.	01:02
lbt	gabrbedd: we already offer that :)	01:03
blindfish	pebcak: didn't have to recover yesterday, cause the image from 27.5 just freezed before i could install it :P	01:03
lbt	DE should benefit first	01:03
pebcak	blindfish lucky you	01:03
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gabrbedd	lbt: oh, you mean like a web tool for OBS?	01:03
pebcak	I stay with the 1.2.0.90 images	01:03
lbt	gabrbedd: kinda ... pkgdb.meego.com/de	01:03
pebcak	seem to work well for me	01:03
lbt	gabrbedd: it's still in beta (ie doesn't work for me yet!)	01:04
gabrbedd	lbt: ah, that thing!	01:04
lbt	it's "just" a mysql DB of the packages in the images/releases	01:05
lbt	a bit heavy on the js for my taste - but that's the web for you :)	01:05
Umeaboy	Hi!	01:05
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Umeaboy	I wish there was a page on meego.com to see what devices Meego are tested on & how it works.	01:07
Umeaboy	Is that possible?	01:07
sofar	blindfish: sample-media package was split, cutting out ~160mb of all basic images	01:07
gabrbedd	Umeaboy: search in wiki.meego.com and the forums.	01:08
pebcak	what's with the installer?	01:08
gabrbedd	Umeaboy: you'll probably have better luck by asking about the specific device you're interested in.	01:09
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blindfish	good night everyone	01:10
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gabrbedd	What's the workaround for the "error: Package already exists: %package debuginfo" thing?	01:14
gabrbedd	...for c.OBS, that is.	01:14
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lbt	gabrbedd: disable the debugbuild	01:16
gabrbedd	lbt: but then you don't get debug packages, right?	01:17
lbt	correct afaik	01:17
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* gabrbedd grumbles		01:17
gabrbedd	ok	01:17
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lbt	I think this is a MeeGo thing, not a c.obs thing	01:17
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gabrbedd	lbt: ok.	01:19
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gabrbedd	lbt: looks like it's just i586, too. Seems like I've seen this before... many moons ago...	01:20
lbt	try #meego-arm too ...	01:20
gabrbedd	my armv7el build worked fine with a debug package.	01:21
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lbt	gabrbedd: can't find anything about it on -dev or -packaging mls	01:27
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lbt	mmm spoke too soon ... mentioned last november	01:29
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gabrbedd	lbt: looks like OBS will make debuginfo pkgs whether you want them or not.	01:42
gabrbedd	lbt: for i586, anyway.	01:42
gabrbedd	lbt: so if you set the debug flag for the build... it tries to double-up the debuginfo pkg or something.	01:43
lbt	it isn't something I've used personally	01:43
lbt	OK	01:43
gabrbedd	lbt: not blaming you or anything... just sharing info.	01:43
lbt	that makes sense	01:43
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lbt	thanks, we need to work the OBS and build docs up a bit more	01:44
lbt	both what the OBS does and how MeeGo uses it	01:44
jarkko^	is there ready built rpms for fc15 available anywhere for meego-tools or is there easy way to build them (OBS?)?	01:47
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gabrbedd	lbt: this looks like about the right spot... http://wiki.meego.com/Build_Infrastructure	01:48
lbt	no, yes (I think)	01:48
gabrbedd	lbt: but it doesn't come up high in the search list when searching for OBS.	01:48
lbt	gabrbedd: agreed - tidying it up would be nice	01:48
jarkko^	found the obs project but there's no yet fc15 target in obs	01:50
lbt	jarkko^: you could branch and build them on the c.obs	01:50
lbt	I was just checking to see if suse had f15... they do	01:50
jarkko^	yeah that would work, thanks	01:52
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lbt	jarkko^: OK , I just added it to the c.obs as a 'default' target	01:55
* gabrbedd updates http://wiki.meego.com/OBS and http://wiki.meego.com/Build_Infrastructure/Packagers_Developers#Troubleshooting		01:59
jarkko^	gr8 :)	01:59
Umeaboy	I wonder if an Ipad would work well with MeeGo.	02:00
Umeaboy	It's supposed to have an Intel-CPU so it might.	02:00
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gabrbedd	Umeaboy: I don't think it's an intel chip.	02:03
gabrbedd	Umeaboy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_A5	02:03
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gabrbedd	Umeaboy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_A4	02:03
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Umeaboy	Oooooooh.	02:04
Umeaboy	To bad.	02:04
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sergiusens	lbt: can you grant me access to the community obs? 'sergiusens' is my user name	02:22
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gabrbedd	sergiusens: it's almost midnight in the UK, so lbt might be AFK.	02:25
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ali1234	actually it's after midnight	02:26
ali1234	BST	02:26
sergiusens	ah, ok, just saw a message half an hour ago from him and though I could catch him :-P	02:26
gabrbedd	sergiusens: Try sending an e-mail, and be sure to include a brief explaination of what you're working on and confirmation that it's OSS-only.	02:26
gabrbedd	ali1234: true. I was thinking UTC.	02:27
sergiusens	I'll just wait for him to come back some other time. I don't have his email	02:28
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npm	http://www.engadget.com/2011/05/30/embargo-viewsonic-viewpad-10pro-boots-an-intel-oak-trail-cpu-i/ --> will it MeeGo??	02:32
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npm	it's a GMA 600: http://www.engadget.com/2011/04/11/intel-rolls-out-atom-z670-oak-trail-processor-for-tablets/	02:35
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npm	carefully hidden in all the verbiage is that it's still a single core w/ hyperthreading	02:40
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SpeedEvil	The other amusing thing is of course - you know people will want to run legacy apps on it.	02:41
SpeedEvil	With all the mobile joy that brings.	02:41
npm	and also no mention of how much the integrated graphics processing steals from say, realtime audio DSP ( gabrbedd ? )	02:41
SpeedEvil	I do wonder if intel/t-gate will manage to hit impressive power numbers simply by being the only one with that tech.	02:43
gabrbedd	npm: dunno. i didn't know that the graphics and cpu competed at all on atom or anything else.	02:43
* CosmoHill has a database exam in 13 hours :o		02:46
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CosmoHill	cyas	02:50
berndhs	good night	02:50
gabrbedd	nighty night	02:51
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akk	Any OSC users? I'm trying to set it up, and I'm getting: Server returned an error: HTTP Error 401: basic auth failed	04:24
akk	like in this bug (but it's marked fixed even though nobody seemed to know what the problem was): https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=5853	04:25
MeeGoBot	Bug 5853 nor, Undecided, ---, jian-feng.ding, RESO FIXED, "401: basic auth failed" on osc commit	04:25
akk	and neither of the workarounds there are helping -- if I set keyring = 0 in .oscrc it still prompts for a keyring password.	04:25
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BLUG_Julien	Hi, I am looking for some resources giving details on why Meego does not run on that many laptops (from a technical POV) can someone point at some links on that topic? Google has not been much help :-(	04:26
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Texrat	hola	04:29
Texrat	ahoy	04:29
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Texrat	and moi	04:29
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Texrat	hey b0unc3	04:29
araujo	BLUG_Julien, even though you can get meego in laptops , the system is mainly tailored for netbooks, handsets and ivi ..... and also some media devices	04:29
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BLUG_Julien	araujo: thanks, this, I can fully understand, what I see as an issue is that it makes it quite difficult for a curious user to give it a spin. I am not a troll so I don't want to argue about the fact that it is not easy (must have been done plenty of time) I am just interested in knowing what is the technical reason behind that	04:32
gabrbedd	Jeez. Who let Texrat in? :-p	04:32
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gabrbedd	MeeGoBot: supported processors?	04:32
MeeGoBot	gabrbedd: Supported Processors are http://wiki.meego.com/Supported_Processors	04:32
gabrbedd	BLUG_Julien: ^^^ this is probably your answer right here.	04:33
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araujo	BLUG_Julien, i don't think it is _complex_ ... but it might require some effort to properly get it running as a laptop/desktop system	04:33
gabrbedd	You need a supported processor and video card. The list is a little bit limiting.	04:33
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gabrbedd	The technical reason: Not many ARM-based laptops. And also Intel is pushing their Atom/Core2 technology... so they're leveraging that instruction set (specifically the SSSE3 extensions).	04:34
gabrbedd	MeeGo is not opposed to other processors... but someone has to cough up the engineering and IT resources to support them.	04:35
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araujo	I don't think it'd be complex, but it does require effort	04:35
araujo	nobody is stopping you if you want to do it :P	04:36
BLUG_Julien	gabrbedd: araujo thanks, I get it. It	04:37
akk	Can anyone here verify that osc is up, so the basic auth failure I'm seeing isn't just a down server? (Before I reopen the bug on it.)	04:37
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gabrbedd	akk: I've been building packages on c.OBS today. Have you been able to get it to work at all?	04:38
BLUG_Julien	I will try to find a SSSE3 capable CPU around me then :D	04:38
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akk	gabrbedd: No, I just get that basic auth failure when I try the first step, osc -Ahttps://api.meego.com ls	04:39
akk	Can't get past that.	04:39
gabrbedd	BLUG_Julien: there's some virtual ways to do it (using the SDK with qemu)... but IMHO the best way is to get a used Core2 or Atom device.	04:39
gabrbedd	akk: it's possibly because you don't have auth on api.meego.com. Your permissions are for api.pub.meego.com.	04:40
akk	Oh! I'll try that, was copying-and-pasting commands.	04:40
gabrbedd	akk: That's supposed to be part of a script, also. You have to pass that every time you use osc.	04:41
akk	Yep! That's it. Is it normal for it to prompt for the keyring password 4 times?	04:41
gabrbedd	I don't recall... I set it up many moons ago. :-)	04:41
akk	(only twice if I run the command a second time)	04:42
akk	Even after setting it up, each new ls prompts twice.	04:42
gabrbedd	I never get prompted for passwords.	04:42
akk	I'd love to get it not prompting me at all.	04:42
gabrbedd	at least, not after it was set up.	04:42
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akk	I don't suppose you know how I could do that? I tried keyring=0 in ~/.oscrc but it doesn't make any difference, still prompts for keyring.	04:43
akk	(twice)	04:43
gabrbedd	akk: my keyring setting is the defaults. (I.e. all lines with 'keyring' are commented out.	04:44
gabrbedd	akk: I also see my server user/passwd in the .oscrc file.	04:44
akk	It put keyring=1 in the new entry it just made for https://api.pub.meego.com, so that's the default now, not commented out.	04:46
akk	But it still prompts even if I comment it out or change it to 0.	04:46
gabrbedd	What OS are you on?	04:47
akk	Ubuntu 10.04 natty, not running gnome (don't have gnome installed).	04:47
akk	(I mention that because I think the keyring is a gnome thing)	04:47
gabrbedd	try this.... osc -Ahttps://api.pub.meego.com --no-keyring --no-gnome-keyring	04:47
gabrbedd	and see what it does.	04:47
akk	Gives a long usage statement.	04:48
akk	... which does include both --no-keyring and --no-gnome-keyring	04:48
gabrbedd	What version of osc do you have?	04:49
akk	Oh, maybe because there was no command?	04:49
gabrbedd	akk: likely, yes.	04:49
akk	But if I add ls at the end, I get HTTP Error 401: basic auth failed	04:49
akk	osc is 0.130.1	04:49
akk	(I apt-got it from the natty repositories)	04:49
akk	In .oscrc, should the password be password= or passwd= ?	04:51
gabrbedd	pass	04:51
gabrbedd	pass=	04:51
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akk	Ah, that works, with --no-keyring --no-gnome-keyring, and uncommenting plaintext_passwd = 1 in .oscrc	04:52
akk	Thanks!	04:52
gabrbedd	try without the keyring stuff. sounds like the .oscrc just plain didn't have your passwd	04:52
akk	Nope, if I remove those flags it prompts me for a keyring password.	04:53
gabrbedd	kk	04:53
akk	That's okay, I have to alias it anyway since I don't want to type the URL every time, so I can add those flags to the alias.	04:53
* akk makes notes to write a howto on this stuff		04:56
* gabrbedd hopes that akk improves http://wiki.meego.com/Build_Infrastructure/Packagers_Developers/CLI_Part_1 -- possibly adding a "troubleshooting" section.		04:58
akk	Sure, happy to! Once I figure this out.	04:59
akk	Now I'm trying to figure out what a "home project" is. obs wants me to "enter some descriptive data" but I'm not clear what I'm supposed to be describing.	04:59
gabrbedd	akk: Don't get too hung up on that. A brief description of the kind of packages you plan on working on.	05:01
akk	CLI_Part_2 assumes that step is already done but doesn't say anything about it.	05:01
gabrbedd	akk: The idea is for actual "projects", though. E.g. "Add weyland to meego" or some such goal.	05:01
* gabrbedd keeps misspelling wayland		05:02
akk	So it doesn't really make any sense for users, except "everything I've written for meego" ?	05:02
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berndhs	you can change it if it turns out to be inaccurate	05:03
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gabrbedd	akk: exactly.	05:04
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akk	Darn, CLI_Part_2 is all about checking out existing projects and creating new stuff is in "TBD"	05:04
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gabrbedd	akk: IIRC, check out your home project. From there, add stuff as though it were svn.	05:06
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gabrbedd	akk: However, I think I created my projects using the web interface and then manipulated them using osc.	05:07
akk	That sounds safer, at least for the first one. I'll do that too.	05:08
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akk	Creating a project didn't really clarify anything ... when I osc update it doesn't pull a new directory or anything.	05:13
akk	Probably at this point I should try pulling some random other people's home projects and see what they should look like (and hope I find someone who has working projects :)	05:14
gabrbedd	Try... osc co home:akk/my_cool_game	05:15
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gabrbedd	akk: You're akkana, right?	05:17
akk	nope ... so maybe it didn't actually create the project?	05:17
akk	Right, I'm akkana	05:18
gabrbedd	akk: You created PyTopo as a "project" -- which essentially is a folder.	05:18
gabrbedd	akk: It needs to be a package.	05:18
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akk	It has links to Add a new package once I've created the project ... I'll try that.	05:19
akk	Just give it the same description and so forth that I gave the project, I guess?	05:19
gabrbedd	yep.	05:19
gabrbedd	And go back and delete the home:akk:PyTopo project.	05:19
gabrbedd	doh... home:akkana:PyTopo	05:20
akk	Okay, I think I've done that. What's the difference between a package and a project?	05:20
akk	It seemed to be prompting me to create subprojects inside home:akkana, so I thought that was what I was supposed to do.	05:21
gabrbedd	akk: a project is a folder full of packages. A package is something that gets built and can be installed on a machine.	05:21
gabrbedd	akk: With the web interface, after I log in...	05:22
gabrbedd	akk: I click "My Projects"	05:22
gabrbedd	akk: Then my "home" project (home:gabrbedd)	05:22
akk	Okay, I've created a package.	05:22
gabrbedd	akk: Then in the menu at the top....	05:23
gabrbedd	akk: OK, I see it now.	05:23
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* akk checks out home:gabrbedd to see what packages should look like		05:23
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gabrbedd	akk: After you add your package files... you'll need to set up build targets here https://build.pub.meego.com/package/show?package=PyTopo&project=home%3Aakkana	05:24
gabrbedd	akk: A build target says, "Build for meego_1.1_extras for i586 and armv7el"	05:24
gabrbedd	Without that, nothing gets built.	05:24
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akk	What's kiwi? I've heard of the rest of the targets.	05:29
akk	I don't see a target for tablet UX, which is the only one I'm actually testing on.	05:29
akk	Or is that included in "MeeGo 1.2", since that doesn't specify specific UXes?	05:30
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akk	Does it figure out how to build, look for a Makefile or a setup.py or whatever? It hasn't asked me how to do that, or what the dependencies are or anything.	05:34
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gabrbedd	akk: You have to do regular RPM building, meaning that your .spec file has all the info required to build your project.	05:35
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akk	I have a setup.py, and python setup.py bdist_rpm will make an RPM from it that works on meego.	05:36
gabrbedd	akk: As for the repos you build against... yes, I recommend MeeGo 1.2 core.	05:36
gabrbedd	akk: You're on your own with respect to compliance, though. I think there's some tools to help you verify where you land in the compliance spectrum.	05:37
akk	But they haven't asked that, so I'm wondering if it already knows to run python setup.py bdist_rpm if it sees a setup.py.	05:37
gabrbedd	akk: Hmmm... that's not how it's supposed to work. It won't see setup.py.	05:37
gabrbedd	akk: You must supply a .spec file to generate your RPM.	05:37
akk	So I should check in the .spec file python auto-generated from setup.py? Python put it in build/bdist.linux-i686/rpm/SPECS/PyTopo.spec	05:39
akk	but I'm guessing it should go up in the toplevel?	05:39
gabrbedd	akk: That would be a good starting point.	05:40
gabrbedd	Yes, it need to be in the top level.	05:40
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akk	Now I guess I wait a while until something tries to build? I see a table of "Build status" if I view my home project	05:43
akk	but a lot of them say "excluded" and I don't know what that means	05:43
gabrbedd	akk: It should try immediately after you check your project in.	05:43
akk	and some say "unresolvable"	05:43
gabrbedd	haha... did you set up enough targets? :-p	05:44
akk	Okay, I think MeeGo_Trunk_standard just went to "failed" but when I click on it, it doesn't give me any error messages.	05:44
akk	It's a python noarch thing, so I clicked everything that looked like it might have a UI and X.	05:45
gabrbedd	akk: one thing at a time.	05:45
gabrbedd	akk: unresolvable means that your dependencies weren't found.	05:45
gabrbedd	akk: click where it says "unresolvable: 1"	05:45
gabrbedd	akk: Then where it has a red "unresolvable", click that and it'll tell you which packages were missing.	05:46
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akk	thanks, got it	05:46
gabrbedd	akk: Do the same for the 'failed' ones... except that you'll get a log file.	05:47
akk	but it doesn't make any sense :) "Nothing provides rpm, nothing provides gcc" (I don't use gcc, this is python!), "nothing provides rpm-build", stuff like that	05:47
gabrbedd	akk: that's the output of the build.	05:47
gabrbedd	akk: OK, take for instance "meego_1.0_core_Netbook" ...	05:48
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gabrbedd	akk: It's an empty project.	05:48
gabrbedd	akk: There's nothing in it. It's a bad idea that someone aborted.	05:48
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gabrbedd	akk: I suggest starting with "meego_1.1_extras" and "meego_current_extras"	05:49
gabrbedd	akk: take off all the debian, fedora, and suse stuff until you get comfortable with how things work.	05:49
akk	There are no "extras" targets in the list	05:49
akk	and I can't figure out how to remove any targets ... clicking on build targets from my home project lets me add more repositories, but the existing ones are all greyed out and unclickable.	05:50
akk	ah, in "repositories" there are "remove repository" buttons	05:51
akk	but still nothing with "extras" in it	05:51
gabrbedd	akk: looks like a bug. At the top click "pick one via advanced interface"...	05:52
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gabrbedd	akk: and then I dunno.	05:53
gabrbedd	ok.	05:54
gabrbedd	Project: MeeGo:1.2.0:oss	05:54
gabrbedd	Repos: standard	05:54
gabrbedd	New name: meego_1.2_oss	05:55
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gabrbedd	and.... that didn't work.	05:55
* gabrbedd sighs		05:55
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akk	no, didn't for me either	05:55
gabrbedd	ah! got it.	05:56
gabrbedd	Meego:1.2:Apps	05:57
gabrbedd	The rest gets auto-filled-in	05:57
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akk	It said it added it successfully, but when I go back to Overview it still says "this project has no build targets".	05:58
gabrbedd	I don't see the repositories defined for your home:akana project.	06:00
gabrbedd	Compare https://build.pub.meego.com/package/repositories?package=PyTopo&project=home%3Aakkana	06:00
akk	I removed all the ones I had before, as you told me to.	06:00
akk	Now I'm trying to add that one Meego:1.2:Apps via the advanced interface.	06:00
gabrbedd	And https://build.pub.meego.com/project/repositories?project=home%3Agabrbedd	06:01
gabrbedd	ok.	06:01
akk	It says "Build targets were added successfully" but it doesn't seem to have added anything.	06:01
gabrbedd	Go here https://build.pub.meego.com/project/repositories?project=home%3Aakkana	06:02
gabrbedd	Under repository configuration, what do you see?	06:03
akk	Just "Add repositories" with a link on the Add.	06:03
akk	Which is where I've been clicking to get to the place where I can click on the advanced interface.	06:03
gabrbedd	ok.	06:04
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gabrbedd	Apparently, whatever you did in the advanced interface didn't stick.	06:04
gabrbedd	Do it again and tell me what is entered for all the fields.	06:04
Stskeeps	ahoy Texrat	06:04
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akk	Okay, I click on the advanced interface link; then I enter Meego:1.2:Apps under Project (if I leave off the last few chars and type something, there's an autocomplete dropdown for it)	06:06
akk	then I leave everything else blank and click Add repository	06:06
gabrbedd	can't leave it blank.	06:06
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akk	I was leaving it blank because you said "The rest gets auto-filled-in"	06:07
akk	Nothing gets filled in, so I thought you meant after I click Add.	06:07
gabrbedd	Yeah, but not ignored. :-)	06:07
gabrbedd	Needs to be...	06:07
gabrbedd	Repository: MeeGo_1.2_standard	06:07
gabrbedd	New Name: MeeGo_1.2_Apps_MeeGo_1.2_standard	06:08
akk	"Failed to add build targets: The link target project Meego:1.2:Apps does not exist "	06:08
gabrbedd	Arch: (whatever you want... I suggest i586, armv7el, armv8el)	06:08
gabrbedd	MeeGo -- not Meego	06:08
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akk	I left arch at the default, which was i586 and arm8el	06:08
akk	though as a python project it should be the same for all arches	06:09
gabrbedd	The project is MeeGo:1.2:Apps with a capital G	06:09
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gabrbedd	I think it's case sensitive	06:09
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akk	Funny that it autocompleted the dropdown just fine with "Meego" but didn't complete the other field.	06:10
akk	With MeeGo it does complete the second field.	06:10
akk	Okay, it added it.	06:10
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gabrbedd	akk: ok, I see it.	06:10
gabrbedd	akk: you have 1 building and 1 failed build.	06:11
gabrbedd	:-)	06:11
gabrbedd	happy hacking!	06:11
akk	"PyTopo-1.0.tar.gz: No such file or directory" -- so I have to check in a tarball too? It won't build it from the files in this repo?	06:12
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akk	I give up, I need to see a working python project or I'll be spending two years just trying random stuff trying to guess what it wants.	06:12
gabrbedd	akk: PyTopo.spec has a line that says "Source0: %{name}-%{unmangled_version}.tar.gz	06:13
* akk wishes I could just check in my rpm file that WORKS FINE ALREADY		06:13
gabrbedd	"	06:13
gabrbedd	However, you didn't provide that .tar.gz	06:13
akk	See, Python has this wonderfully easy way of creating RPM files without needing to write every line of an RPM spec	06:14
gabrbedd	If you want to build from misc. files in your folder... you have to do some clever stuff with Source0: Source1: Source2: lines.	06:14
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akk	and it does it all automatically	06:14
gabrbedd	akk: and does it create a .src.rpm ??	06:14
gabrbedd	(your python script, that is)	06:15
akk	I think there's a command for that, though for python there's not much difference.	06:15
akk	It's not my python script, it's a standard part of python.	06:15
akk	(well, pytopo is my python script, but the thing that makes the rpm isn't)	06:15
gabrbedd	akk: you can ask on meego-packaging to see if there is or could be support for it. But I wouldn't hold my breath.	06:16
gabrbedd	akk: Meanwhile, if you can get your script to spit out a .src.rpm	06:16
gabrbedd	akk: I suggest you do that.	06:16
akk	I think I just need to find some existing python packages and see what they do.	06:16
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gabrbedd	akk: Extract the .src.rpm into your project with magic like this:	06:16
akk	So if I just check in a src rpm instead of the actual source files, it will do everything from that?	06:17
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gabrbedd	rpm2cpio PyTopo-1.2.3.src.rpm \| cpio -id	06:17
gabrbedd	akk: No, you have to extract the contents of the .src.rpm and comment THOSE.	06:17
gabrbedd	s/comment/commit/	06:18
infobot	gabrbedd meant: akk: No, you have to extract the contents of the .src.rpm and commit THOSE.	06:18
akk	Okay, cool, it extracted the tarball and the .spec file.	06:21
akk	So I should check those in, and remove the other files?	06:22
gabrbedd	yeah.	06:22
sofar	or, you use autospectacle	06:22
sofar	and it makes a yaml/spec file for you :)	06:22
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Texrat	hey gabrbedd	06:23
gabrbedd	sofar: oh, sure... now that things are nearly settled you go and stir it up some more, eh?	06:23
gabrbedd	:-p	06:23
sofar	tee hee	06:23
* Texrat waves hands, apparently invisibly		06:24
gabrbedd	Texrat: sorry... I thought you were replying to my invisible wave way up there ^^^^^	06:24
gabrbedd	:-)	06:24
DawnFoster	hey texrat	06:25
Texrat	oops, I was away and forgot to set	06:25
gabrbedd	Stskeeps: said hi, too.	06:25
gabrbedd	erm....	06:25
Texrat	yeah he and I are on chat	06:25
gabrbedd	Texrat: stskeeps said hi, too	06:25
gabrbedd	Texrat: whatcha talking about. we need more transparency in your private dealings.	06:25
Texrat	ack	06:25
Texrat	not MINE	06:25
Texrat	my stuff is 99% open	06:26
Texrat	but other projects...	06:26
gabrbedd	:-p	06:26
Texrat	hey if I'm not the lead, well...	06:26
sofar	Texrat: tell me about the 1% :)	06:26
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akk	Oh, great, now it fails with: python: command not found	06:26
Texrat	1% is beating people up in private for being jackasses	06:26
sofar	see, that is the interestign part	06:26
Texrat	lol	06:26
sofar	anyone can write software	06:27
Texrat	we should invert it then? :D	06:27
sofar	beating up people, takes skill ;)	06:27
Texrat	if done right, true	06:27
sofar	DawnFoster let's me politely beat up trolls in here ...	06:27
Texrat	well trolls are masochists	06:27
gabrbedd	akk: well, you didn't list python as a BuildRequires	06:28
DawnFoster	and sofar is so good at beating up the trolls :)	06:28
Texrat	problem is trolls like it	06:28
Stskeeps	sofar: got an idiot's guide to systemd anywhere? we have a simple one that deals with some network setup connman doesn't do (usb networking)	06:28
*** sofar sets mode: -o sofar		06:28
gabrbedd	akk: and the setup.py script isn't listed in your sources (also in the .spec)	06:28
sofar	Stskeeps: why would systemd be involved in that?	06:28
Texrat	ok, gabrbedd, about open projects...	06:28
Texrat	feel free to climb aboard the Open Gaming Lobby train	06:29
Stskeeps	sofar: ok, so, previously, it was a init.d script setting up usb0 configuration	06:29
karthee	Hi .. anybody from India ? wanted to know if beagle board ( rev C) is available in india	06:29
Texrat	karthee beagleboard has an IRC channel that should help	06:29
sofar	Stskeeps: what exactly does that init.d script do?	06:29
gabrbedd	akk: I recommend learning proper RPM packaging. Looks like the setup.py script is creating FTBFS .src.rpm's.	06:30
karthee	oh .. nice .. i ll ask there .. thanks	06:30
sofar	seems like we're missing some connman integration, or udev	06:30
Texrat	sure karthee	06:30
sofar	http://0pointer.de/public/systemd-man/systemd.unit.html or even http://0pointer.de/public/systemd-man/	06:30
Stskeeps	sofar: the problem is that connman refuses to deal with usb gadgets, so we have to manually ifconfig usb0	06:30
Stskeeps	sofar: thanks	06:30
sofar	best resources around	06:30
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sofar	Stskeeps: question	06:30
akk	gabrbedd: argh, I still haven't managed to learn deb packaging. Increasingly I'm thinking that the best way to distribute apps is to put the RPM on my website and hope users google for it.	06:30
sofar	Stskeeps: if you run those few usb commands, does connman pick up the device from there on automatically?	06:31
gabrbedd	akk: I've done DEB packaging, and I've done RPM packaging. I like RPM packaging better.	06:31
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Texrat	akk, that's where you ask for help from packagers ;)	06:31
iekku	morning	06:31
gabrbedd	akk: It makes more sense and is easier to learn.	06:31
akk	gabrbedd: If there are working python examples somewhere, I should be able to copy from that; if nobody has managed to package a python app yet, I'm not interested in being the first guinea pig.	06:31
Stskeeps	sofar: so we had a conversation with the connman developers and they stated they don't support/don't intend on supporting g_ether type of things. we used to have a full fledged connman config for it but it was intensely unstable	06:31
Texrat	akk I would talk to Khertan	06:31
Stskeeps	sofar: this is mostly just "able to ssh in over usb" stuff	06:32
sofar	Stskeeps: if yes, then just make a special usb-networking.service unit file that tweaks the usb device so it works	06:32
Stskeeps	ok	06:32
sofar	Stskeeps: ahhh ok, the n900 gadget stuff	06:32
sofar	IC	06:32
Stskeeps	:nod:	06:32
gabrbedd	akk: you won't be the first. I see 125 python packages in my current tablet build.	06:33
akk	Texrat: Thanks, I'll keep an eye out (though I've never seen that nick here in the few weeks I've been around).	06:33
Texrat	akk: let me get you info	06:33
Stskeeps	sofar: we also found that we need some kernel configs since we had systemd complain on boot about missing /dev or something :)	06:33
Stskeeps	sofar: (just sharing experiences, we found a fix, i think)	06:33
sofar	Stskeeps: plenty of examples in Trunk already to pick from. You probably need a Type=oneshot service and start it in the same target as networking (multi-user.target.wants/etc)	06:33
Stskeeps	ok	06:33
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sofar	Stskeeps: you need to look at the `kernel` package changes, there's a commit with all the options in there that are now needed	06:34
sofar	DEVTMPFS, CGROUPS are the big ones	06:34
Stskeeps	ok	06:34
sofar	that part needs more docs though	06:34
sofar	Stskeeps: is the arm kernel working right now?	06:35
Texrat	heygbraad!	06:35
Texrat	oops	06:35
Texrat	hey gbraad!	06:35
Stskeeps	sofar: we need to patch in Trunk:Testing, but we did our first attempted boot of 1.3 yesterday	06:36
Stskeeps	sofar: resulting in the /dev problem ;)	06:36
Stskeeps	so within short time we should have things working	06:36
Texrat	akk: here is Khertan's twitter profile for starters https://twitter.com/#!/khertan	06:36
sofar	Stskeeps: well good	06:36
Texrat	he's done a lot with Python on Maemo	06:37
DawnFoster	we also have a meego-python mailing list if no one has already mentioned it (I've been dipping in & out of irc)	06:41
Stskeeps	thp's talk was awesome - i really look forward to the video online so i can show to people how bloody easy it is to prototype	06:41
gabrbedd	Stskeeps: which talk?	06:42
Stskeeps	http://sf2011.meego.com/program/sessions/prototyping-and-developing-apps-python-pyside-and-qml	06:43
gabrbedd	Stskeeps: thanks, I'll check it out.	06:44
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akk	The python ML is pretty much inactive. But that's a good point, maybe it would be more active if people asked questions on it. :)	06:50
akk	I went to the talk, and the prototyping demo was great -- but he didn't talk at all about how to share code once you had it	06:50
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akk	and there was some good audience discussion about how many problems there were (no way to specify dependencies on python packages, or know what will normally be installed).	06:51
Stskeeps	i thought it actually picks those up automatically in rpm build	06:55
Stskeeps	kinda like binary ones are	06:55
akk	nope -- someone said there'd been talk of trying to write a script that would do that	06:55
Stskeeps	hrrm	06:55
akk	some day, maybe	06:55
Stskeeps	i am fairly sure it runs something python related	06:55
Stskeeps	i remember fighting with rpmbuild about that when bootstrapping armv7hl	06:55
akk	heh, not on OBS -- my build was failing with "python: command not found"	06:56
Stskeeps	hrm	06:57
Stskeeps	akk: got a build log	06:57
Stskeeps	?	06:57
akk	Not sure this will work if you're not me, but: https://build.pub.meego.com/package/live_build_log?arch=armv8el&package=PyTopo&project=home%3Aakkana&repository=MeeGo_1.2_Apps_MeeGo_1.2_standard	06:57
akk	If it doesn't work, let me know and I'll paste it somewhere.	06:57
Stskeeps	ok, so you definately need to Requires: python	06:59
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akk	It won't be "command not found" if that requirement is there? That doesn't mean there's no python on the build machine?	07:00
Stskeeps	it does mean that python isn't a standard part of the build chroot being generated	07:00
Stskeeps	as you don't specify it has to be there	07:01
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Stskeeps	it makes a fresh build chroot each time :)	07:01
akk	okay ... I assume I need both Requires and BuildRequires, right? (since it needs python to run)	07:02
Stskeeps	ah yes, i mean buildrequires	07:02
akk	also pygtk	07:02
Stskeeps	sorry about that, a bit jetlagged still	07:02
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akk	How do I find out package names? I can probably guess python is python, but how would I add a runtime PyGTK requirement?	07:03
Stskeeps	build.meego.com and browse around, i suppose	07:03
Stskeeps	or look on repo.meego.com	07:03
Stskeeps	brb	07:03
sofar	here's what I do	07:05
sofar	zypper pa	07:05
sofar	look for a -devel package	07:05
sofar	install it	07:05
sofar	see if it installs /usr/lib/pkgconfig/foo-1.2.pc	07:06
sofar	if so, add	07:06
sofar	BuildRequires: pkgconfig(foo-1.2)	07:06
sofar	if not, add	07:06
sofar	BuildRequires: foo-devel	07:06
akk	maybe I'll just skip the runtime requirement now, and try to remember to add it later.	07:06
sofar	if it's some other dependency, you'll have to use Requires or similar as appropriate	07:06
akk	I don't see it in the repo, but I know it's there in the image 'cause the program works.	07:06
gabrbedd	sofar: this'll tell you the package straight away.... zypper wp -C "pkgconfig(foo-1.2)"	07:06
sofar	gabrbedd: that assumes you know "foo-1.2" is what the pkgconfig name is	07:07
akk	I'm not on anything that has zypper right now, and the table where I usually put the exo+keyboard is covered with stuff.	07:07
sofar	gabrbedd: it doesn't work if some configure script outputs "Testing whether bla works .... no"	07:07
gabrbedd	doh... no -C option.	07:07
gabrbedd	sofar: well, sometimes I find it easier to find the pkgconfig name than the package name. :-)	07:08
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gabrbedd	sofar: e.g. inspect the pkg-config folder on my Ubuntu box.	07:08
sofar	gabrbedd: won't help if you have no -devel packages on your system - meego strips them all	07:09
gabrbedd	sofar: what won't work? zypper wp?	07:10
sofar	if you don't know the pkgconfig name of a library, you cannot search for it	07:10
akk	It's fairly easy to find out packagenames if you have a shell on the target machine.	07:10
akk	Not so easy otherwise.	07:10
gabrbedd	sofar: right.	07:10
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sofar	I just spent half night looking up dependencies for the Xfce4 repo	07:12
sofar	lol	07:12
sofar	added removable media support and a ton of little tweaks and updates	07:12
akk	Woo! Maybe that depdency was all it needed -- I got a build "succeeded"!	07:12
akk	though I do have to figure out the python-gtk package name so I can add runtime dependencies eventually.	07:12
gabrbedd	sofar: Reminds me... I've been meaning to write a script to parse the filelists of a repo so that you can search the repos for a file.	07:13
sofar	osc ls?	07:13
akk	That would be super useful.	07:13
Stskeeps	gabrbedd: supposedly you can do zypper in /bin/ls	07:13
gabrbedd	sofar: e.g. repo-file-lookup "foo.h"	07:13
gabrbedd	Stskeeps: yum does it. zypper does not.	07:13
Stskeeps	ah	07:14
sofar	should pursue that upstream in zypper	07:14
gabrbedd	Upstream zypper does not want to add it, either.	07:14
akk	Also a website like debian has (I think fedora has one too) where you can search for packages by name.	07:14
gabrbedd	(I found a ML post once upon a time)	07:14
sofar	we should not maintain zypper hacks in meego	07:14
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sofar	akk: build.meego.com works well enough to search	07:15
gabrbedd	sofar: I was planning it as an aux script rather than a zypper hack.	07:15
gabrbedd	But maybe if more people whine to the zypper devs they'll allow it to be added.	07:15
sofar	exactly	07:15
akk	sofar: How do I search there for packages? I tried putting a couple keywords in the search field at the top and got nothing.	07:15
* gabrbedd works on his pouty face		07:16
sofar	just type package names, partials work	07:16
sofar	e.g. 'foo' shows foomatic foobar foo foomatic-db etc.	07:16
akk	Hmm, if I search for python, there's nothing matching 'gtk' in the page that it gives me	07:16
sofar	cuz	07:17
sofar	gtk bindings are in pygtk	07:17
akk	ah, searching for gtk got it, it's pygtk2	07:17
sofar	^	07:17
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Stskeeps	hmm	07:19
Stskeeps	DawnFoster: http://lists.meego.com/mailman/listinfo (if you're awake still..)	07:19
DawnFoster	it's only 9pm here - not asleep yet :)	07:19
DawnFoster	ugh	07:20
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Stskeeps	at least i don't see my meego-commits@ mails	07:20
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gabrbedd	Bad Robot!	07:20
DawnFoster	ping lbt X-Fade	07:21
DawnFoster	sent adam gretzinger an SMS, too	07:21
Stskeeps	thanks	07:22
DawnFoster	ok, Adam knows about it	07:22
DawnFoster	he's on it	07:22
sofar	DawnFoster: something up?	07:22
DawnFoster	mailing lists are down	07:22
sofar	well poop	07:22
DawnFoster	adam is working to get the issue fixed	07:22
sofar	adaaaaaaaaaam	07:22
sofar	lol	07:22
sofar	adam is my hero	07:22
sofar	I feel bad asking him to do stuff for me	07:22
DawnFoster	not sure what the problem is (I'll refrain from bugging him until they are back up) :)	07:22
DawnFoster	Stskeeps: thanks for the ping	07:23
sofar	looks like a server went offline	07:23
sofar	no biggie	07:23
DawnFoster	yeah	07:23
Stskeeps	DawnFoster: no problem	07:23
sofar	aren't they mirrored somewhere?	07:23
DawnFoster	they're also on gmane	07:23
sofar	anyway, gonna hack on the couch with a netbook for a bit	07:23
sofar	bbl	07:23
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Texrat	gotta go, later all	07:24
Stskeeps	see you Texrat	07:24
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DawnFoster	later!	07:25
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timoph	morning	07:44
gabrbedd	howdy	07:45
bkalinga	is it possible to run '/usr/bin/meego-im-uiserver' in root log in of meego	07:47
bkalinga	i.e. inside root@meego-tablet-sdk:	07:47
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iekku	gabrbedd, should you be sleeping?	07:53
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gabrbedd	iekku: yes!	07:55
gabrbedd	iekku: you threw me off by showing up early. :-P	07:56
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pebcak	moin	08:01
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LoCusF	lbt: k	08:23
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kavacha	hey, where can I find the nightly builds for the netbook release	09:21
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bkalinga	is it possible to run '/usr/bin/meego-im-uiserver' in root log in of meego	09:44
bkalinga	i.e. inside root@meego-tablet-sdk:	09:44
bkalinga	or using sudo	09:44
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Stskeeps	lists are still messed	09:51
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andre__	lcuk: by going to https://bugs.meego.com/query.cgi?format=advanced and entering "-1d and Now" under "Only bugs changed between:"	10:02
mikhas	bkalinga, why the SDK? cant you first test directly on a device? IE, ExoPC, IdeaPad?	10:02
mikhas	the SDK is just another layer of possible failure, and VKB - AFAIK - is not supported in MeeGo SDK	10:03
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zinit	good morning	10:10
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zinit	mornings	10:11
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lbt	Stskeeps: lists OK now?	10:30
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thp	how do I "contact the release team" and/or "contact the qtmobility maintainer" in meego?	10:30
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Stskeeps	lbt: unsure, not getting any mails yet	10:32
Stskeeps	thp: sec	10:33
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Stskeeps	thp: officially it is noted as boudra / fabo but i think that's incorect	10:34
Stskeeps	sec	10:34
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Stskeeps	thp: try prod janne1	10:34
zinit	strange on the meego website about the image with chrome. sais that the s10-3t doesnt have the broadcom card working out of the box... when I installed that image on mine it worked out of the box. only thing I had to do was to set up my wifi at home manually. for some reason it wouldnt connect to the one it found...	10:35
ali1234	some of them have atheros wifi	10:35
zinit	mine has broadcom	10:36
zinit	1.2 it worked no issue	10:36
zinit	on 1.1 I had to set up the wifi driver	10:36
zinit	and it was a bitch to get my iphone tethering working...	10:37
thp	Stskeeps: on irc? basically i want to get bug 17461 fixed, which requires a "rm" command to be removed from the .ks file	10:37
MeeGoBot	Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17461 nor, Low, ---, jerry.yu, NEED, Can't use Accelerometer Sensor in ExoPC with MeeGo Table pre-alpha OS	10:37
zinit	on 1.2 I have to use tethering via bluetooth, wont work via cable for some weird reason	10:38
zinit	(got same issue in ubuntu. in windows and sles 11 it works	10:38
Stskeeps	thp: ah - then you should mail meego-releases@ i guess	10:38
zinit	one thing that got me puzzled with 1.2 was that the native twitter support was gone... (had to use the solution from the forum to get it working)	10:40
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tomeu	Stskeeps: wonder if http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-releases should be linked from http://wiki.meego.com/Release_Engineering#Team	10:43
Stskeeps	should be probably	10:43
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Stskeeps	edit it?	10:44
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tomeu	done	10:46
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tomeu	andre__: do you know if that's the official way people should contact the release team?	10:47
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Stskeeps	it usually is the best way	10:47
andre__	tomeu, I have nothing to do with MeeGo release-team.	10:48
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andre__	I myself try to find out too, though :-P	10:48
tomeu	yeah, but I know you like processes ;)	10:48
andre__	tomeu, not if they are partially braindead... ;-)	10:48
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iekku	andre__, :D	10:50
tomeu	next time I'm on a RT, I will also want to hide the contact	10:50
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thp	anyway, until that bug is (hopefully) fixed, one can get accelerometer fun on the ExoPC using http://wiki.meego.com/Devices/ExoPC#Accelerometer	10:50
andre__	tomeu: so shall I propose you once I will leave that other release-team I'm in. ;-)	10:51
tomeu	not sure, that RT seems to realize the importance of being contactable by the community	10:51
andre__	which one? MeeGo or Gnome? :-P	10:52
Stskeeps	i've not had trouble with meego release team lately, personally	10:52
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andre__	me neither, though some activity is just completely invisible. but we all know that... :)	10:53
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thp	argh! meego-releases@ wants me to be a subscriber.	11:46
Stskeeps	blah, meego-packaging@ is also good	11:47
Stskeeps	well, all lists require you to be a subscriber	11:47
thp	which kind of misses the point in my opinion for something like "being able to bring something to the release team's attention"	11:49
Stskeeps	generally, -packaging@ is for all packages, -releases@ is for release engineering (trunk, trunk:testing problems, repos, etc)	11:50
X-Fade	You can subscribe and disable mails.	11:50
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jksM	when booting the MeeGo netbook live image I receive this error: "mount: / not mounted already, or bad option" - "unable to re-mount root with SSD option"	12:01
jksM	how can I solve this and get the system to boot?	12:01
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jksM	(booting on an Atom Z530 based board)	12:03
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tomeu	jksM: you should have a more relevant error when it tried to mount for the first time	12:11
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mak89k	the meego netbook emulator stalls after "starting meego" when run from the terminal linux.	12:46
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maggie	hi I just found that the getext pakcage at meego 1.2 repo is an empty archive which does not install anything, is it a known issue	12:59
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jksM	tomeu, no such error was displayed... I also tried booting without the quiet boot option, but didn't get such an error either	13:05
jksM	tomeu, even without quiet it stops emitting messages at some point, where it clears the screen and I get a blink cursor at the top left corner of the screen	13:06
jksM	is there a boot option for meego that will increase the verbosity of debug messages perhaps?	13:06
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lcuk2	andre__, thanks!	13:07
tomeu	jksM: then maybe root was mounted correctly and it's a wrong remount option	13:08
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tomeu	and that remount may not be a real symptom of the problem you are having	13:08
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Night-Hacks	hi everyOne	13:55
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Night-Hacks	i want to install Meego emulator on Ubuntu 10.04 what's the best way for it ?	13:56
alterego	Night-Hacks: probably the sdk installation notes on the wiki	13:56
Night-Hacks	installing its SDK with apt.	13:57
Night-Hacks	?	13:57
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Night-Hacks	is meego 1.2 available ?	13:58
alexG	try	13:58
alexG	http://developer.meego.com/guides/getting-started/getting-started-meego-v1.2-sdk-linux	13:58
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Night-Hacks	i wanted to install it via apt.	13:59
Night-Hacks	but it looks 1.2 is available just in installer	13:59
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Night-Hacks	installer says	14:08
Night-Hacks	Error downloading	14:08
Night-Hacks	from ... amazon site !	14:08
Night-Hacks	what's the problem	14:09
Night-Hacks	?	14:09
Night-Hacks	i think it's amazon web services	14:09
Night-Hacks	any idea ?	14:11
eg81	Night-Hacks: are you sure that you have teh latest installer (20110519)?	14:12
Night-Hacks	eg81: yeah it is	14:12
Night-Hacks	server replies forbidden	14:13
jksM	tomeu, I assume it's something that Meego "does"	14:13
jksM	tomeu, I wonder what that SSD remount option means (I'm running it off an SSD)	14:13
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Night-Hacks	the first step is BUG !	14:15
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maitrey	Has anyone upgraded ubuntu-10.04 to 11.04 an dgot mic and osc working?	14:44
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ali1234	maitrey: never seen that stuff work on any ubuntu version... didn't bother trying 11.04 though	14:45
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bkalinga	to which path third party application must be installed in case of Meego	15:05
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bkalinga	i am using 1.2tablet image	15:06
Greatgib	bkalinga: /opt/my_application i think	15:06
bkalinga	drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 2011-03-14 17:44 opt	15:07
bkalinga	opt is owned by root	15:07
bkalinga	so can my application create some generated files inside that	15:08
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Greatgib	bkalinga: http://gabrbedd.wordpress.com/2011/03/24/meego-compliance-why-installing-to-opt-is-a-good-thing/	15:08
Greatgib	bkalinga: the user is root when something is installed with the package manager, so the /opt/my_application could be created	15:09
bkalinga	but in Meego this folder is owned by root	15:09
bkalinga	so would it create any problem	15:09
bkalinga	while you run your application as user "meego"	15:09
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bkalinga	consider u run meego-im-uiserver as user "meego"	15:10
bkalinga	that loads a shared library which will create some temp files in /opt	15:11
bkalinga	is it possible??	15:11
Greatgib	bkalinga: i'm not sure because I havn't a meego device near me, but put in the worst case, create a subfolder my_files in the .spec with the chmod 777 and then you will be able to do whatever you want inside it as a normal user :)	15:11
gabrbedd	bkalinga: /usr/bin is owned by root, also -- but there is no security issue.	15:12
Greatgib	bkalinga: when you first install you application and the .spec file is executed, the user is root, so you could do what you want	15:12
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Greatgib	bkalinga: so in your spec, you could ask to create all the subfolders you want with the right you want in /opt/my_application	15:12
Greatgib	s/right/rights	15:13
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bkalinga	gabrbedd: can a process start with user meego can create temp files inside /usr/bon	15:13
bkalinga	*/usr/bin	15:13
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bkalinga	Greatgib: i understand while installing it can create	15:14
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bkalinga	but what about during the execution	15:14
gabrbedd	bkalinga: No, you cannot create temporary files in /usr/bin or in /opt -- but this wasn't your original question.	15:14
Greatgib	bkalinga: no because your a not supposed to do that, except if you want to ask for the sudo right to the user at runtime	15:15
bkalinga	gabrbedd: that is my original question	15:15
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gabrbedd	bkalinga: you can create temporary files in /tmp or any any folder where the user has write permission	15:15
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gabrbedd	bkalinga: The preferred location is ~/.cache/my_appname/	15:15
Greatgib	bkalinga: but isn't it a solution for you to create at installation the folder: /opt/my_app/tmp	15:15
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Greatgib	chmod it to 777	15:16
Greatgib	and then as a normal user you could put files inside	15:16
gabrbedd	Greatgib: do not do that.	15:16
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bkalinga	Lets say some third party application has a data folder where it has its own pre-installed content	15:17
bkalinga	and wants to add more into it	15:17
bkalinga	then now what is the best solution	15:17
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Greatgib	gabrbedd: it is not the best, but for example if you create a game and want to downlaod later the resources for it, that is a better place than ~/...	15:17
bkalinga	i think there must be a standard folder for this in MeeGo	15:18
gabrbedd	Greatgib: why is it better than ~/.cache/ ?? That's what ~/.cache is for.	15:18
gabrbedd	And how is it better to put it in /opt for a single-user installation?	15:18
bkalinga	I dont prefer to put my application in ~/cache	15:19
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chouchoune	but why shouldn't it ask for root credentials if you try to install other things later ?	15:20
gabrbedd	Compliance spec allows you to also install in /var/opt/packagename	15:20
Greatgib	gabrbedd: in that case it is not cache datas, it is additional persistent datas	15:20
gabrbedd	And that's where it belongs.	15:20
chouchoune	you can use opt, and then, when you want to update the installation, use opt again while asking for root password	15:20
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Greatgib	gabrbedd: /var/opt/packagename is a good place :)	15:21
gabrbedd	But using ~/.cache/packagename is better than using giving /var/opt/packagename 777 permissions.	15:22
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bkalinga	Lets say i install my application in /var/opt/kalinga/	15:22
gabrbedd	Don't install your application in /var/opt/kalinga	15:23
bkalinga	how can i give permission to "meego" so that it can write insto this path latter	15:23
gabrbedd	bkalinga: meego has full permissions to write to ~/.cache/packagename	15:23
gabrbedd	bkalinga: What is the problem with using ~/.cache ?	15:24
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bkalinga	no problem but i had impression that usully people delete this folder	15:25
chouchoune	bkalinga: why do you want to write inside your installation folder ?	15:25
gabrbedd	bkalinga: usually people have no clue that the folder exists.	15:25
bkalinga	ainstallation folder contain some initial data	15:26
chouchoune	if it's temporary or congiguration data, it should be in the home folder	15:26
bkalinga	over the period of time that data needs to be modified	15:26
gabrbedd	bkalinga: however, they can delete the folder if they want to clean things up -- in which case you'll just re-download the data.	15:26
chouchoune	bkalinga: just do like usual Linux programs	15:26
chouchoune	sone default configuration inside /opt or /etc or whatever depending on the distributions's compliance	15:27
chouchoune	and then inside the home folder, user specific configuration changes	15:27
bkalinga	chouchoune: when ever you say installation folder..what do you mean by that?	15:28
chouchoune	the user meego, over the time, will have the ability to change settings through it's own home folder	15:28
chouchoune	/opt	15:28
chouchoune	where you have your binaries	15:28
chouchoune	and the program you launch	15:28
chouchoune	binaries/libraries/etc...	15:29
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bkalinga	ok i prefer putting them into /usr/local/bin or /usr/bin /usr/local/lib /usr/lib	15:29
bkalinga	but i have kind of configuration data	15:29
chouchoune	but apparently it's not the Meego way to do it	15:29
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chouchoune	ok, let me check meego compliance folders exactly ;)	15:30
bkalinga	please point me to link if any exists	15:30
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bkalinga	gabrbedd: My understanding is binaries should go to ~/.cache/kalinga	15:32
bkalinga	but where must i put my configuration files	15:32
gabrbedd	bkalinga: What? No.	15:32
chouchoune	http://gabrbedd.wordpress.com/2011/03/24/meego-compliance-why-installing-to-opt-is-a-good-thing/	15:32
gabrbedd	bkalinga: Install your application in /opt/packagename	15:32
chouchoune	here, it's written at the beginning	15:32
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chouchoune	/etc/opt/packagename I would say	15:33
gabrbedd	chainsawbike: /etc is for configuration files.	15:33
gabrbedd	bkalinga: When you install your package, all the files installed from the RPM are recorded in the RPM database.	15:33
chouchoune	yes, that's why your configuration should go to /etc/opt/packagename	15:33
gabrbedd	bkalinga: If you add extra stuff... how will RPM know to delete it when you uninstall?	15:34
timoph	%ghost	15:34
timoph	or something like that iirc	15:34
chouchoune	and after, when running the application at the user level, you can update your configuration through a second conf file located in the user's directory	15:34
bkalinga	temp file are generated and cleaned up by the app	15:34
gabrbedd	bkalinga: How will RPM know to go and delete the stuff that you added in /var/opt/packagename/world_writeable_folder ?	15:34
bkalinga	so rpm does not need this info	15:35
chouchoune	and the configurations from there could override the "global configurations"	15:35
gabrbedd	bkalinga: RPM doesn't run your app. It just cleans up files.	15:35
* lcuk peeks in		15:36
bkalinga	gabrbedd: your question was if I add extra stuff(i mean generated files during execution)	15:36
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gabrbedd	right.	15:37
gabrbedd	Will the extra stuff appear in `rpm -ql packagename`	15:37
gabrbedd	If not, then you've undermined RPM.	15:37
bkalinga	they can not be accessed by rpm	15:37
* Stskeeps ponders if meego-ux-components can be used on top of stock qt		15:37
Stskeeps	in windows	15:37
* gabrbedd has to take kids to school, brb		15:37
bkalinga	they will be deleted by my application	15:37
w00t_	Stskeeps: it's installable on regular linux, at least, so it has some degree of portability	15:38
bkalinga	before my app exits	15:38
chouchoune	bkalinga: during the same execution that created them ?	15:38
chouchoune	ok, so why not /tmp ?	15:38
Stskeeps	w00t_: requires meego-ux-daemon or not?	15:38
lcuk	w00t_, what about the rest of the meego api?	15:38
w00t_	Stskeeps: not sure, villev might know	15:38
Stskeeps	or meego-qml-launcher	15:38
Stskeeps	ok	15:38
bkalinga	yes...Yes I agree those could have created in /tmp but i am using a third party engine that does all this	15:39
Stskeeps	w00t_: i'm trying to have a compelling story for my wife to do meego app devel that does not in some way involve symbian components	15:39
Stskeeps	:P	15:39
bkalinga	it takes my application settings as the base path to create those temp files	15:39
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bkalinga	so i cant change their behaviour rather place my stuff so that the third party lib works perfectly	15:40
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* lcuk had tracy tagging and grouping sketches most of yesterday afternoon :)		15:40
lcuk	she said it was very relaxing	15:40
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w00t_	Stskeeps: -nod-.. if it doesn't already, it really will need to at some point for SDK	15:41
lcuk	Stskeeps, where are symbian components needed?	15:41
lcuk	and why are they a bother if you write in qt/qml?	15:41
Greatgib	bkalinga: chouchoune: 2 things:	15:41
lcuk	if anything that just shows another market for the same app	15:41
Stskeeps	lcuk: well, because that's the only ones that work with qt creator with no runtimes needed	15:41
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Greatgib	1) i think that your configuration should go to /opt/application/etc and not /etc/opt/application	15:42
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lcuk	Stskeeps,ok so supposing you used that sdk to create a qt/qml app	15:42
lcuk	and it runs on symbian	15:42
bkalinga	Greatgib: 2) binaries?	15:42
lcuk	what is the developer story (since you like these) to just submitting it to meego?	15:42
Greatgib	2) To remove files in /var/opt/application_name/blablabla_dynamic_added_files, just add a "rm /var/opt/application_name/*" in the uninstall section of your .spec	15:43
lcuk	i have liqcalendar in qt now	15:43
Stskeeps	lcuk: probably no difficulty, but i'd like to have some kind of uniform inteface	15:43
lcuk	and it shows on the symian simulator	15:43
lcuk	so how can I deploy it to meego	15:43
bkalinga	2)binaries must go to : /opt/packagename correct me if i am wrong	15:43
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Greatgib	bkalinga: it is really simple, everything that is in your package go inside in /opt/my_package/	15:43
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lcuk	Stskeeps, sure thing	15:44
lcuk	but there are hundreds of similar qt apps now	15:44
Greatgib	you could use something like "prefix" in your .spec so that files of your application that go to /usr/share , or /etc go to /opt/my_package/usr/share and /opt/my_package/etc	15:44
lcuk	designed for small mobile	15:44
lcuk	designed for low power use	15:44
lcuk	written in the "right" toolkit (qt)	15:44
lcuk	how do each of those developers get them onto meego?	15:44
Greatgib	and for things that you will download yourself, of additional binaries and things like that, add that to /var/opt/my_application/*	15:45
lcuk	at conferences around the world, hundreds of apps are made	15:45
lcuk	but we never see them deployed	15:45
bkalinga	as a user meego will u be able to write into /opt/my_package/	15:45
lcuk	no matter how crappy	15:45
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Greatgib	and in your .spec add a rule at uninstall to delete everthing in /var/opt/my_package	15:45
lcuk	at barcamp, I saw a talk/presentation for android that was publishing an android app	15:45
lcuk	by the end of the presentation it was submitted	15:45
Greatgib	and for user configuration and things like that, put that in ~/.cache/ or ~/.my_application etc....	15:46
lcuk	and on android marketplace thingy	15:46
bkalinga	drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 2011-03-14 17:44 opt	15:46
lcuk	that is a developer story, how close in meego can we get?	15:46
chouchoune	Greatgib: An application shall be installed to /opt/packagename/ and, if necessary to the	15:46
chouchoune	/etc/opt/packagename/ and /var/opt/packagename/ directories. System wide	15:46
chouchoune	configuration files shall be placed in the /etc/opt/packagename directory, rather than directly in	15:46
chouchoune	data from a package, such as lock files, cached files, etc. shall be placed in the	15:46
chouchoune	/var/opt/packagename directory rather than directly in /var , unless a specific location is	15:46
Stskeeps	lcuk: sorry, i lost track at "sure thing"	15:46
chouchoune	necessary for the application or system to operate correctly. User.specific files shall be stored in the	15:46
Greatgib	bkalinga: in your .spec file, you could change the rights of the folder of your application to whatever you want, but the best is to have things that never change in /opt/my_application	15:47
chouchoune	~/.config/packagename directory. The rationale for these rules is to avoid filename clashes	15:47
infobot	that's too long, chouchoune	15:47
chouchoune	between application packages and system files, by defining portions of the filesystem certain to be	15:47
chouchoune	unique to that application.	15:47
chouchoune	sorry for the blood	15:47
lcuk	well Stskeeps you said you wanted a uniform interface	15:47
lcuk	the apps are written in qt	15:47
Greatgib	,things that change in /var/opt/my_application, and user specific things like configuration in ~/.config/my_app , ~/.cache/my_app, etc...	15:47
chouchoune	so configuration goes in /etc/opt/packagename rather then /opt/packagename/etc	15:48
chouchoune	http://wiki.meego.com/images/MeeGo-Compliance-Spec-1.1.0.0.pdf	15:48
chouchoune	(for the Compliance doc)	15:49
Greatgib	chouchoune: yes it would be best :) But you could have my_config.default.ini un /opt/packagename/etc and my_config in /etc/opt/...	15:49
chouchoune	no	15:49
chouchoune	default config should be on /etc/opt	15:49
chouchoune	and specific config in .config	15:50
chouchoune	because specific config is dependent of the user's action	15:50
chouchoune	and can be changed at the user's level	15:50
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Stskeeps	mwichmann: is libmeegotouch currently in 1.2 compliance?	15:56
mwichmann	checking	15:56
w00t_	I thought lmt was in platform APIs	15:56
w00t_	(i.e. not in compliance)	15:56
mwichmann	yes... these three packages are in the "full compliance" set	15:57
mwichmann	- libmeegotouch	15:57
mwichmann	- libmeegotouch-l10n-en	15:57
mwichmann	- meegotouch-theme	15:57
Stskeeps	ok	15:58
Stskeeps	(damnit)	15:58
* Stskeeps ponders if upgrading to a ABI/API compatible later version is proper or not		15:58
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w00t_	Stskeeps: provided they are compatible, why not?	16:05
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Jaffa	andre__: I dunno how you can read meego-qa. The lack of decent quoting, randomised replies etc has made my eyes bleed after just one day	16:23
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w00t	Jaffa: at least it's a public ML	16:29
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Jaffa	w00t: I subscribed because of a comment of "we decided this in internal meetings"	16:33
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iekku	Jaffa, those ones are "very nice"	16:35
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lcuk	Jaffa, I have noticed that in genreal the qa- mails are formatted in an understandable manner and the guys in general perform well as a team	16:46
lcuk	after all, they are QA - they try extra hard to ensure quality in everything they do!	16:47
iekku	lcuk, :o	16:47
alterego	Heh, pedants.	16:47
iekku	i need to stop mailing to keep the quality high :P	16:48
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lcuk	lol	16:48
gabrbedd	Increase MeeGo Quality: /kick alterego !	16:48
gabrbedd	:-p	16:48
iekku	nooooooo	16:48
lcuk	why don't we ask png guy to be on the TSG?	16:48
iekku	gabrbedd, that wasn't so nice	16:48
Stskeeps	lcuk: at least he asks questions!	16:49
Stskeeps	:P	16:49
lcuk	indeed	16:49
iekku	i somehow missed the whole png guy thing	16:49
* lcuk runs to #maemo and suggests abill for the council too ;)		16:49
lcuk	iekku, he ensured that every TLA was described	16:49
timoph	:D	16:49
lcuk	none shall pass without his little question	16:49
* gabrbedd hugs alterego		16:50
iekku	hmmm, lcuk did you try to say "NIH" to him?	16:50
lcuk	i was not at the conf!	16:50
* lcuk never been to America		16:50
w00t	lcuk: you should have been! :p	16:50
lardman	iekku: is that a reference to knights?	16:50
lcuk	yes, I should	16:50
lcuk	the baby is not here yet either	16:50
lardman	lcuk: you blacklisted then? ;)	16:51
lcuk	lardman, flight would stop off in NY	16:51
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iekku	lardman, i think yes	16:52
lcuk	I don't know if I am actually, I should try flying soon	16:52
gabrbedd	iekku: OK, this isn't a terribly positive article... but this is where I learned about the PNG-guy. http://www.sdtimes.com/blog/post/2011/05/26/Meego-SF.aspx	16:52
lardman	iekku: :)	16:52
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lardman	lcuk: I had to go via NY when I went to SF last year	16:52
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lcuk	the knights who say Ni	16:52
lcuk	are not the kinghts who say "Not invented here"	16:52
alterego	I had direct flight from LHR-SFO and back	16:52
lcuk	lardman, tracy wants to go to ny	16:53
lardman	lcuk: ah I see	16:53
lcuk	and shouted lots when I suggested going to the conf	16:53
lcuk	and then got practical and moaned about baby	16:53
alterego	Heh	16:53
lcuk	(which is estimated to be 8-9lbs already	16:53
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alterego	It's a shame you weren't there it was really good (at least for me) :)	16:53
gabrbedd	iekku: And GAN900 took a picture of him in my session... http://www.flickr.com/photos/generalantilles/5758755051/in/set-72157626686547465/	16:53
lcuk	this is going to be an engineering challenge!	16:54
lcuk	alterego, yeah I know	16:54
lardman	which one is he?	16:54
lardman	and why isn't he labelled as the PNG-guy ? ;)	16:54
lcuk	if it was even a fraction as good as the dublin conf, everyone will have set of things to do these coming months	16:54
gabrbedd	lardman: the asian fellow in the center of the picture, head down and sleeping.	16:55
SpeedEvil	lardman: - left, front row	16:55
lardman	gabrbedd: ah ok, worn out from all his questions no doubt :)	16:55
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SpeedEvil	And writing his javascript.	16:55
iekku	gabrbedd, nice text	16:56
lcuk	ok real question: who in the channel now uses their meego device longterm for things?	16:56
alterego	lcuk: mine is on full time now, pretty much.	16:56
wmarone	I like how he paints the PNG-guy as an example of how "non-technical" the conference was compared to Google IO	16:56
lardman	Meego device?	16:56
alterego	I'm using both, DE for calls, Maemo for email	16:57
alterego	email and internet.	16:57
alterego	and music	16:57
lcuk	alterego, so when hacking do you boot into meego	16:57
lcuk	or have you multiple devices?	16:57
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* lardman heads to meeting		16:57
alterego	I have multiple devices.	16:57
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lcuk	lardman, you need one I gather	16:58
lcuk	but catch you after meeting	16:58
gabrbedd	wmarone: Yeah, I disagreed with several things in that article.	16:58
gabrbedd	wmarone: However, when the dude walked in I really did wonder if he was a homeless guy looking for a place to rest.	16:58
lardman	lcuk: I have an N900, but as I am working on mBarcode and most people still use Maemo, I've not had time to try Meego N900DE yet - planning to give it a go asap though	16:59
lardman	bbiab	16:59
lcuk	gabrbedd, you did gui principles class?	16:59
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alterego	Nice group of geeks: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=7222180&l=f0f310d52b&id=666721077	16:59
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Jaffa	lcuk: I beg to differ about good formatting. Who said what in this email? http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-qa/2011-May/001690.html (to pick the one I was responding to)	16:59
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gabrbedd	lcuk: No, it was "Writing Interactive Audio Applications"	16:59
wmarone	gabrbedd: I can believe that, but to use him as a point with which to bash pretty much everyone there...	16:59
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gabrbedd	lcuk: A common mistake in writing an audio app is for the GUI to be too active.	17:00
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iekku	Jaffa, i feel your pain.	17:01
gabrbedd	wmarone: Well, his point was valid. Without charging admission, you have no way to validate that you have qualified attendees.	17:01
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gabrbedd	wmarone: Thus, it's no big accomplishment to have a "capacity crowd" since anyone can walk off the street and attend.	17:01
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gabrbedd	wmarone: That said, his comments fly in the face of the spirit of MeeGo (openness and transparency).	17:02
gabrbedd	wmarone: I.e. the reporter just doesn't "get" what we're trying to do.	17:02
wmarone	right	17:02
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lcuk	Jaffa, I said in general. you can find corner cases for everything in life - this is obviously a passionate topic and you picked up on it for the internal meetings aspect and jumped into a conversation already ongoing and known by the participants	17:03
lcuk	you will probably find similar in many threads on any ML	17:04
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lcuk	but if you do feel it needs more structure then cool beans, high quality should be coming from the qa guys :)	17:05
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iekku	alterego, it seems that someone has really been present, i haven't seen any pictures of me in the conference	17:06
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* gabrbedd coughs		17:19
gabrbedd	I though quality was more or less repeatability.	17:19
gabrbedd	So as long as they consistently use poorly formatted e-mails, then it's all good. Right?	17:19
gabrbedd	:-p	17:19
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andre__	Jaffa, I agree. I have to... :-/	17:29
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lcuk	w00t, pass on congrats to brik	17:34
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w00t	will do, but she's off getting drunk atm	17:35
w00t	;)	17:35
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lcuk	what does atm mean?	17:36
Stskeeps	at the moment	17:36
lcuk	ta	17:38
lcuk	w00t, well raise a glass with her later	17:39
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lcuk	oooh Intel Remastered art exhibition coming to Manchester this week	17:56
* lcuk will go and visit		17:56
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lardman	re	18:06
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CosmoHill	youtube catchup tv + ad block = ad free tv	18:07
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lcukn900	i am going to reflash 0523 image because i cannot appear to use the latest :s	18:11
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Tsuyo	Hey guys, i wanted to try the new Meego release on my N900. I downloaded the "acceptance-1.1.99.7.20110516.2.DE.2011-05-23.1-mmcblk0p.raw" one. After reading the installation guide, i found out, i have to bring this raw into a new format. the guide says there are already prebuild ones. But why is there already a 1.2.80 build, when the 1.1.99.7 just got released?	18:24
berndhs	the 1.2.80 is the branch for 1.3 development	18:25
Tsuyo	So to make it clear, the 1.2.8 is the less stable, but the newest version?	18:27
berndhs	the something.80 is less stable than something-else.99, usually	18:27
Tsuyo	;). Allright, Thank you.	18:27
berndhs	saying "newest" implies that it is linear, but it isn't	18:28
Tsuyo	Okay, so, i just wanted to try the 'newest' one, since the 1.1 version was kinda slow for me.	18:29
Tsuyo	It was a year ago, so i was just probably doing something wrong. But anyways ;)	18:29
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niala		18:33
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lcuk	where is the best place to look at the pipeline a QML object will go through	18:38
lcuk	from parsing to object generation to rendering?	18:38
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lcuk	Stskeeps, regarding your 2012 thread, starting it off with "one of the disadvantages" is perhaps unfortunate wording!	18:57
* lcuk was once asked about 2012 devices :)		18:58
lcuk	strangely enough as often as I have tried to get hold of that interview video I have not seen it since	18:58
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* CosmoHill wishes his mac wouldn't try an index every external hard drive he connected		19:00
lcuk	CosmoHill, lol	19:02
* lcuk wonders how many people have seen that video to date and whether I was right in what I said in it		19:02
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delac	should I install SDK if I plan to do Meego development ON Meego netbook? And if so, do I need to install the netbook target too?	19:32
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lcuk	this is a REALLY silly question	19:38
* CosmoHill installs Fedora 15		19:38
lcuk	but is there a MeeGO SDK image yet?	19:38
lcuk	ie, like I get a pinetrail meego tablet UX image	19:38
lcuk	can I get a similar SDK image with osc/OBS all configured and ready to use	19:38
lcuk	I have a machine here that will happily boot meego	19:39
lcuk	but wheneever I peer at OBS itis overwhelming	19:39
Greatgib	lcuk: you could install a normal image of meego 1.2 for netbook	19:39
Greatgib	lcuk: and then install developer tools	19:39
lcuk	sure I could	19:40
lcuk	but you are missing the point of what I am considering	19:40
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lcuk	I run meego daily already	19:40
delac	how well does that work?	19:40
lcuk	I develop (non qt) apps in it	19:40
Greatgib	lcuk: there is a filter somthing like "developers-tools" so in one command with zypper you could install everything you need	19:40
lcuk	but whenever I try and configure OBS and osc and all the sdk stuff	19:40
lcuk	it is confusing	19:40
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berndhs	qt-creator should work fine for non-qt stuff	19:41
delac	Greatgib: there is? can you be more specific?	19:41
lcuk	Greatgib, suppose I cannot get on the network easily and that I just want to have an appliance in my house ready to use	19:41
lcuk	berndhs, not really the point	19:41
lcuk	but perhaps would be fun	19:42
Greatgib	lcuk: you could clone one of a repo something like: repo.meego.com/..../release/...netbook/../1.2/packages	19:42
Greatgib	there is not so much packages	19:42
lcuk	Greatgib, I am a developer	19:42
lcuk	not a console wizard	19:42
berndhs	what is the point ? OBS/osc ?	19:42
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lcuk	I spent 10 years with visual basic and not a console in sight	19:42
lcuk	I know about kickstart files	19:43
delac	Greatgib: maybe "zypper install -t pattern development-tools" ?	19:43
Greatgib	zypper install -t pattern development-tools	19:43
Greatgib	yes	19:43
lcuk	and that they can have packages listed and preinstalled when used to make an image	19:43
lcuk	so using your logic Greatgib	19:43
Greatgib	lcuk: Ah no, i was not saying if you want to create your own image	19:43
lcuk	a generic meego netbook kickstart file could be modified to add all the sdk and OBS faff stuff	19:43
berndhs	ah this leads me to a question, can I make my own zypper patterns	19:43
lcuk	so that developer with spare netbook lying around can just install meego	19:44
lcuk	and use it to make more meego	19:44
lcuk	meego + meego = MeeGo²	19:44
lcuk	;)	19:44
lcuk	berndhs, yes	19:45
lcuk	a pattern is just a group of like named packages I believe?	19:45
newbie007	actually it would be 2Meego	19:45
lcuk	newbie007, historically I am bad at math	19:45
lcuk	and MeeGo² looks cooler :P	19:45
lcuk	MeeGo²TheCinema	19:46
lcuk	MeeGo²Lunch	19:46
lcuk	MeeGo²ThePark	19:46
lcuk	oooh	19:46
Greatgib	lcuk: http://wiki.meego.com/Image_Creation_For_Beginners	19:46
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TSCHAKeee	MeeGo the Lunch Box!	19:47
TSCHAKeee	MeeGo the Toilet Paper!	19:47
Greatgib	MeeGo²rocks ;)	19:47
TSCHAKeee	MeeGo the FLAMETHROWER!	19:47
TSCHAKeee	moychendising!	19:47
berndhs	hey it works for Superman	19:47
delac	Greatgib: FYI, it's actually: "zypper install -t pattern meego-development-tools"	19:48
* TSCHAKeee wants a Meegon plushie		19:48
* CosmoHill makes a note to install MeeGo at some point		19:49
Greatgib	delac: true :) too complicated to remember :p	19:49
lcuk	Greatgib, did you miss the part where I as a regular joe bloggs app developer does not really understand the command line/console ancient runes	19:50
lcuk	thanks for the link though :D	19:50
Greatgib	lcuk: There will be no fun if it was too easy and without command line invocation :)	19:51
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lcuk	Greatgib, this is the issue	19:52
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berndhs	command line is a lot quicker	19:52
lcuk	the divide between qt-creator simplicity in a way having click Play to run app	19:52
lcuk	and being able to get that cool little app running on meego device itself	19:52
berndhs	can't you write a little bash script and run it from qt-creator ?	19:53
akk	qtcreator already has a button to click to run the app on the device	19:53
lcuk	historically: windows developer. open visual studio, make a few forms, generate binaries put msi file on website and let people have it on their windows machine	19:54
lcuk	akk, no, it has a plugin	19:54
lcuk	and targets and stuff	19:54
lcuk	but the amount of difference between my qt creator and yours is large	19:54
TSCHAKeee	there was a huge fuck-up, in making so many SDKs	19:54
lcuk	example: I have the Nokia Qt SDK, which I got when they said there was a new one	19:54
TSCHAKeee	apple has one SDK	19:54
TSCHAKeee	Android has one SDK	19:55
lcuk	I see app running in symbian/maemo simulator	19:55
CosmoHill	and your soul	19:55
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lcuk	it is a nice app too	19:55
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lcuk	and I want to try it on meego n900-de or on meego netbook or tablet builds	19:55
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TSCHAKeee	and this isn't a "just shut up and code it problem"	19:55
TSCHAKeee	this is a top management clusterfuck problem	19:55
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TSCHAKeee	and until that is solved, this discussion is meaningless.	19:56
lcuk	TSCHAKeee, really management problem? which companies management ?	19:56
delac	why is zypper incapable of downloading anything? It jusr hangs on "retreaving". Connections are OK, so it's not that. And the "Manage Apps" App does install stuff.	19:57
TSCHAKeee	lcuk: precisely. but really this has to do with the fact that the Linux Foundation is completely neutered in this respect.	19:57
TSCHAKeee	an umbrella needs to take charge, and present a unified face.	19:57
lcuk	ok, so to ease this, how can we make a MeeGo SDK appliance image	19:58
lcuk	something that is uable at conferences and training sessions	19:58
lcuk	with known configuration and setup	19:58
delac	ah, maybe it was the repo. works now...	19:58
lcuk	or just zypper slowness	19:58
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delac	might be. it just hang again...	19:59
lcuk	there is a bug for it, hold on	20:00
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lcuk	bug 14219	20:00
MeeGoBot	Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14219 maj, Low, 1.1.90.4, qiang.z.zhang, ASSI, Zypper slowness before each operation	20:00
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lcuk	TSCHAKeee,	20:04
lcuk	what would a developer need to make new components for your thingamibob	20:05
delac	well, it could be related, although I'm not sure. My problem just seems to be that the downloading of some of the packages doesn't begin.	20:05
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TSCHAKeee	lcuk: besides the C++ compiler, we provide all the tools needed. They're part of every installed system.	20:07
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lcuk	TSCHAKeee, do you see people using them and get feedback about it?	20:08
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TSCHAKeee	the problem is, very few people have approached the system... the number of interested users is much smaller than say, someone who uses an android phone	20:09
TSCHAKeee	and even smaller than the number of android developers	20:09
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TSCHAKeee	for every 200 users, we have 1 developer, and we have maybe 3000-4000 users.	20:10
Stskeeps	thiago_ARN: how many airports do you get to see the inside of yearly? :P	20:10
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TSCHAKeee	so the developer base is small enough, that I work hand in hand with each one.	20:10
thiago_home	Stskeeps: do you want me to count?	20:10
* thiago_home has a spreadsheet		20:11
Stskeeps	hehe	20:11
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* w00t thinks "flying around the world" must be in thiago_home's job description		20:11
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thiago_home	Stskeeps: 13 airports this year	20:14
thiago_home	TMP was first time this year yesterday and ARN first time this year today	20:14
Stskeeps	not bad	20:14
thiago_home	7 more if I go back to last	20:15
thiago_home	June	20:15
thiago_home	2 more last May	20:16
thiago_home	my latest "new" airport was Dublin	20:17
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* w00t is a lightweight at 6 airports so far this year		20:18
w00t	:-p	20:18
thiago_home	w00t: 6 distinct airports?	20:18
w00t	yes	20:18
lcuk	thhis luggage however has been to 37534752873458238483248 different airports :P	20:19
lcuk	s/thhis/his/	20:19
infobot	lcuk meant: his luggage however has been to 37534752873458238483248 different airports :P	20:19
thiago_home	lcuk: fortunately, no	20:19
newbie007	you might want to start declining the x-ray machine	20:20
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newbie007	maybe you're going for the laser vision, but I myself won't go though it without a search warrent	20:21
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* lcuk wonders what intelremastered people will think of the calendar as "art"		20:25
lcuk	most artists leave signature on the bottom, mine is all over the place	20:26
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lcuk	"it is just before half past six."	20:32
lcuk	"it is half past six."	20:32
lcuk	:)	20:32
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lcuk	for completeness	20:34
lcuk	"it is just after half past six." :D	20:34
berndhs	see, you just can't go by the time, it keeps changing	20:34
* lcuk goes for tea		20:34
lcuk	berndhs, it is this: http://liqbase.net/liq.20110530_191729.ciroclock_minutes_12h_time.scr.png	20:34
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berndhs	very nice	20:35
lcuk	jake has been reading it everytime, it is helping teach him the time and how to communicate it	20:35
berndhs	with all this discussion about the SDK and the 2012 packaging	20:36
berndhs	I say MeeGo should make one time and stick with it	20:36
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gabrbedd	Stskeeps: on the 2012 thing... are you more or less proposing something like a JIT compiler as a solution?	20:38
lcuk	berndhs, according to my poorly coded calendar I lost a day in March	20:38
lcuk	but gain 2 back in autum	20:38
lcuk	autumn	20:38
berndhs	ah probably a boring day anyway	20:38
mwichmann	Samoa's losing that day in December...	20:39
Stskeeps	gabrbedd: so, c++ -> llvm il -> native code.. not necessarily JIT but you can do that too i suspect	20:39
Stskeeps	gabrbedd: read the PNaCl paper	20:40
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gabrbedd	Stskeeps: ok, I grok it now. Whenver I see LLVM I think "Large Volume Manager" EINVALID	20:41
berndhs	doesnt this replace developer effort with load time CPU, basically ? or is it build time ?	20:41
Stskeeps	basically in tampere mikko terho from nokia said about compliance "who cares about compliance, i just want to run qml".. which is very true	20:41
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berndhs	if it's build time for packaging, that's ok, if its load time or run time, that's detrimental	20:41
Stskeeps	it does change the landscape quite a fair bit	20:42
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gabrbedd	Stskeeps: ACK on QML-only deploys. But I think your proposal is worth considering.	20:42
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Stskeeps	we're 2/3rd there, 3rd one is that the qt quick extensions aren't portable	20:43
Stskeeps	ie, native code	20:43
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gabrbedd	Right.	20:43
berndhs	Stskeeps: the Qt components aren't even portable across verticals	20:43
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berndhs	so 2/3 it kinda optimistic at the moment	20:43
gabrbedd	jeez. mic2 keeps crashing my laptop. What's up with that?	20:43
Stskeeps	gabrbedd: stop using btrfs	20:44
Stskeeps	berndhs: right, but at the moment you still need to make two apps for meego arm and for meego x86	20:44
gabrbedd	Stskeeps: oh my gosh. are you serious?	20:44
Stskeeps	gabrbedd: i'm very serious, that was the main cause of my mic2 problems	20:44
berndhs	no you just need to build them, that's relatively easy	20:44
berndhs	for the verticals you need to write new code	20:45
* gabrbedd sighs again		20:45
Stskeeps	gabrbedd: uname -a	20:45
gabrbedd	Stskeeps: The host machine isn't using BTRFS, but the target image is.	20:45
Stskeeps	gabrbedd: yeah, i know	20:45
Stskeeps	gabrbedd: we had really nasty lockups on our builders at times	20:46
w00t	not to mention the fun bugs on device	20:46
berndhs	so I think it is optimistic to say 2012 the limiting factor will be building ARM vs x86 or 32bit vs 64bit	20:46
gabrbedd	Stskeeps: Did I tell you about my BTRFS kernel oops during MeeGoConf... in the middle of a demo on Monday.	20:46
gabrbedd	?	20:46
Stskeeps	gabrbedd: no, but i would probably have gone "hah-ha" if i had seen it	20:46
Stskeeps	:P	20:46
Stskeeps	gabrbedd: generally btrfs is well behaving on modern kernels like .37 but below..	20:47
gabrbedd	C'mon. I was toting the party line: "btrfs is the future"	20:47
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berndhs	gabrbedd: it is the future. Next month :)	20:48
Stskeeps	gabrbedd: yeah, i stopped believing that when without telling anyone, non-installer images of meego was suddenly turned away from btrfs	20:48
Stskeeps	:P	20:48
gabrbedd	Well, looks like I wasn't using btrfs in my mic2 build.	20:48
gabrbedd	so that's probably not it.	20:48
Stskeeps	alright	20:48
gabrbedd	Stskeeps: argh... I didn't know that.	20:48
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gabrbedd	Hmmm... but my log file says "Loading btrfs..."	20:50
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Stskeeps	auke: \o/ also works, i was really surprised to see the concept extended :) will make life a -lot- easier	21:01
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* npm has meego-lem ized his tablet and written first meego ux components test app		21:11
auke	Stskeeps: hmm? the debug stuff?	21:11
Stskeeps	auke: yeah	21:11
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auke	you know, I spent like a week trying to get `debuginfo-install` working on zypper	21:11
auke	lol	21:12
npm	couldn't last for more than a few hours of development w/o it... (missing tools: mercurial, waf, etc)	21:12
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lcuk	Stskeeps, PNG guy would certainly ask this: What is PNaCl ?	21:16
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Stskeeps	lcuk: "RTFM"?	21:16
Stskeeps	;)	21:16
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lcuk	you mentioned it here in IRC	21:17
lcuk	there is no FM :P	21:17
lcuk	by the way, you say that you have to make 2 apps for meego at the moment	21:18
lcuk	that is normal OBS thing where it makes 5 or so variation packages?	21:18
lcuk	or did you mean having to code/create 2 distinct apps	21:18
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lcuk	ahh I see the RTFM thing	21:20
lcuk	PNaCl:	21:20
lcuk	Portable Native Client Executables	21:20
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berndhs	phosporus sodium chloride	21:20
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lcuk	DawnFoster, what do you know about the IntelRemastered exhibition	21:47
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lcuk	I know ShaneWalters from OneDotZero was at one doing some glow in the dark clay a few days ago	21:47
lcuk	and its coming to Manchester this week	21:47
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DawnFoster	lcuk: honestly, nothing :)	21:48
DawnFoster	Intel is a big company	21:48
lcuk	fair enough	21:48
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lcuk	I wonder what they will make of my digital painting :)	21:48
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* npm wonders what kernel/drivers/usb/misc/trancevibrator.ko is all about :-)		21:49
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timakima	npm: maybe thats the real reason for 3.0 :D	21:50
delac	so, if I install the SDK on Meego netbook and plan on only developing for the netbook, do I need targets?	21:51
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lcuk	delac, everybody needs targets.	21:51
lcuk	without them we wouldn't get anything done.	21:51
lcuk	best answer is: try it	21:51
delac	...	21:51
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npm	so on the exopc's, is there a way to get the bluetooth working?	21:54
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fiferboy	npm: From what I have heard the hardware is working and supported, but there is a bug in MeeGo	21:56
fiferboy	Hopefully it will be corrected with an upcoming release	21:56
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Night-hacks	hi	22:00
Night-hacks	ive installed Meego SDK on Ubuntu	22:00
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Night-hacks	do i need anything else for running my apps on Meego emulator ?	22:01
fiferboy	npm: https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17595	22:01
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MeeGoBot	Bug 17595 maj, High, ---, kai.chai, NEED, [REG] No Bluetooth firmware on EXOPC	22:01
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npm	fiferboy: thanks ... yeah seemedd like missing module or fw	22:08
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lbt_hel	it's quiet here	23:06
Sage	lbt_hel: btw, did you sent any post's about the vendor thing to some ML after SF?	23:07
lbt_hel	not yet...	23:07
lbt_hel	I started writing a wiki page	23:07
Sage	lbt_hel: also when would you like to add more BOSS functionalities to DE project? Now that SF is behind we have time to break some things.	23:07
lbt_hel	would love to :)	23:08
lbt_hel	phaeron: ping	23:08
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Sage	wiki page out in the open or just drafting in some note app?	23:08
lbt_hel	I checked and I didn't hit save before getting in the taxi :(	23:08
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phaeron	lbt_hel: pong	23:09
lbt_hel	oh hey	23:09
Sage	I would like to see BOSS creating for example reports how the submits look like. Not acting based on those but to create reports at least so we could see how it would go.	23:09
lbt_hel	I'm thinking we can start doing BOSS stuff on thur/fri	23:09
lbt_hel	yes - it kinda does that already	23:09
phaeron	we can do anything after tomorrow	23:10
lbt_hel	but we don't have any checks yet	23:10
lbt_hel	I should say ... we've not tied any to the DE process	23:10
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phaeron	didn't get that .. :)	23:12
lbt_hel	just meant that we don't actually call any/many of the pre-checks	23:13
phaeron	yeah the process needs love of course	23:14
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SpeedEvil	:)	23:22
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newbie007	any experiances with meego emulated from VirtualBox or others? Which image would you suggest I grab for this purpose?	23:39
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Alison_Chaiken	I've used meego with qemu but not VirtualBox. Try the netbook ISO.	23:46
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newbie007	I'll report my experiances. VirtualBox was my favorite, now that it's labeled Oracle I'm not so sure	23:50
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dm8tbr	newbie007: vbox is tricky	23:52
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dm8tbr	newbie007: the whole 3d thing never worked for me on the netbook images (after installing the vbox additions everything fell apart ui wise)	23:52
Alison_Chaiken	newbie007, if you're using fedora or ubuntu, you can easily install qemu. If you google "meego PCBSD qemu" you'll find what I did before (not that it's complicated).	23:53
lbt_hel	hey Alison_Chaiken	23:53
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lbt_hel	bye	23:53
dm8tbr	ohai, you're in the country :)	23:53
newbie007	I always avoid that additions thing	23:54
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dm8tbr	newbie007: problem is that most of the UI relies on openGL	23:55
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newbie007	I was about to treat this meego-netbook-ia32-1.2.0.img file as a bootable CD,, that's not right is it.... This is an image not an iso...	23:58
dm8tbr	might work	23:59
dm8tbr	I keep forgetting if vbox will take it	23:59
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gabrbedd	newbie007: it's both.	23:59
gabrbedd	newbie007: it's an ISO image and a live USB stick image.	23:59

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