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| lcuk | timoph, Open Source luggage handling! | 00:03 |
|---|---|---|
| timoph | :) | 00:03 |
| lcuk | they should give people who want to help those little vests and let them rummage through sorting it | 00:04 |
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| * lcuk actually shudders at that, the luggage conveyor belt system would get feature creep and be carrying passengers around | 00:04 | |
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| gabrbedd | Does it count as crossing a picket line to get your own luggage? | 00:04 |
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| delac | recommendations? Qemu or Qt Simulator. My processor doesn't seem to support virtualization. | 00:05 |
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| timoph | I actually took almost 30mis to get out of the plane after landing since the same company drives those stair vehicles | 00:06 |
| lcuk | delac, option C | 00:06 |
| iekku | timoph, hi, how you are doing? | 00:06 |
| lcuk | timoph, :( | 00:06 |
| delac | lcuk: and that would be? | 00:06 |
| lcuk | run it natively on the OS you have or on the device you have | 00:07 |
| * lcuk frowns at emulation on principle | 00:07 | |
| lcuk | but the qt simulator for symbian and maemo does appear to work | 00:07 |
| lcuk | I haven't been able to run it again after doing it once | 00:08 |
| delac | lcuk: hmm, maybe I could put up a ftp-server or something for easy moving... | 00:08 |
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| lcuk | delac, ssh | 00:08 |
| * lcuk used ssh and scp from windows to maemo | 00:09 | |
| delac | lcuk: well, that too :) | 00:09 |
| timoph | oh. the srike just ended at midnight so I might actually get my bag during the weekend | 00:09 |
| * timoph starts trying to sleep in the bus | 00:10 | |
| * iekku tries to be awake in the bus | 00:13 | |
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| alterego | lcuk: that's what I use too, (though maemo/meego to ubuntu) | 00:15 |
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| delac | the wiki for sdk 1.2 talks about some meegoSdkMaintenanceTool.sh script, but it's not in the provided location. Is it still ok to use mad-admin as noted in sdk 1.1 wiki? | 00:16 |
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| delac | that is, to install targets | 00:16 |
| delac | btw, why are they not in repos like everything else? | 00:17 |
| delac | would make things easier | 00:17 |
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| delac | what is the preferred tool to add targets? | 00:31 |
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| CosmoHill | a sniper rifle | 00:34 |
| delac | I see... | 00:34 |
| delac | or do you mean "drop" targets? XD | 00:35 |
| gabrbedd | delac: add targets..... to what? | 00:35 |
| delac | build targets | 00:35 |
| delac | to download and install | 00:35 |
| CosmoHill | atm there is ... | 00:36 |
| CosmoHill | Arm7, and i568 with SSSE3 | 00:36 |
| gabrbedd | delac: I usually do `emacs CMakeLists.txt` -- but I'm not sure what you're doing. | 00:36 |
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| gabrbedd | delac: oh... you mean for OSC? | 00:36 |
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| gabrbedd | OBS, that is. | 00:37 |
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| delac | gabrbedd: OBS? | 00:38 |
| delac | wiki for sdk 1.2 talks about some meegoSdkMaintenanceTool.sh script, but it is not where it should be. Wiki for sdk 1.1 on the other hand has instructions to use mad-admin. | 00:39 |
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| gabrbedd | delac: Sorry, I don't understand what you mean by "build targets" -- that means different things in lots of different contexts. As for the SDK, I don't use it so I won't be much help. Sorry. | 00:40 |
| delac | np | 00:41 |
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| araujo | anybody knows where will be the next meego conf? | 01:02 |
| SpeedEvil | I thought it was supposed to be europe. | 01:02 |
| SpeedEvil | Y'all can use my shed. | 01:02 |
| CosmoHill | it better be like tom's shed which is infact bigger than our living room and has a pool table, a bar and arcade machines | 01:03 |
| araujo | :) | 01:03 |
| Venemo | SpeedEvil, I think thiago told me that the next one will be somewhere in Central EU | 01:03 |
| Venemo | araujo ^ | 01:03 |
| araujo | aah ok, thanks Venemo | 01:04 |
| delac | does anyone here use Meego SDK? how are build targets added to the SDK 1.2? | 01:06 |
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| Venemo | delac, you will need to add them to MADDE | 01:08 |
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| delac | Venemo: sdk 1.2 talks about soem Maintenancetool for sdk? Is that preferred way now? | 01:09 |
| Venemo | delac, hm, sorry, I'm not familiar with that | 01:10 |
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| Venemo | delac, I thought it will work similarly to the 1.1 sdk | 01:10 |
| delac | Venemo: but you know that suin mad-admin works? | 01:10 |
| delac | usin* | 01:10 |
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| Venemo | delac, it worked in the 1.1 sdk | 01:10 |
| Venemo | I haven't tried 1.2 sdk yet | 01:10 |
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| delac | Venemo: well, that is what I'm worried about... | 01:11 |
| delac | Venemo: they dont mention mad-admin at the wiki at all | 01:11 |
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| Venemo | delac, weird | 01:15 |
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| delac | Venemo: well actually now I stumbled upon one version of the wiki where they do mention it. So I thought to try it, BUT it appears that mad-admin list only OLD targets. Most resent seems to be meego-netbook-ia32-1.1.2 | 01:39 |
| delac | I dont think that refers to the sdk 1.2 but actually to the old 1.1.2 sdk. | 01:40 |
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| delac | or is it just the Trunk version I should use? Is it stable enough? | 01:49 |
| Venemo | I have no idea | 01:51 |
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| Venemo | you should come back in a more reasonable time and ask then. it's almost 1 AM now | 01:52 |
| delac | actually it is 2am here :) | 01:53 |
| delac | but not everywhere | 01:53 |
| delac | somewhere it's morning now | 01:53 |
| delac | but I gues Meego is more European thing. | 01:54 |
| delac | maybe I should go to sleep... | 01:54 |
| SpeedEvil | I'm awake - but have no clue. | 01:55 |
| delac | right. well, in that case: good night people! | 01:56 |
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| akk | People were asking SDK questions 6 hours ago and nobody seemed to know much then either. | 01:57 |
| akk | Probably the mailing lists are a better place for that. | 01:58 |
| akk | Or a week when people haven't been traveling for a conference. | 01:58 |
| berndhs | perhaps even the SDK mailing list :) | 01:58 |
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| nasa | Hi guys, does anyone know how to turn off the screensaver and/or the monitor power saving features of 1.2? Using xset doesn't work... There are a couple of people on the forum wishing to know this as well | 02:01 |
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| auke | nasa: use the device panel -> all settings -> power | 02:11 |
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| auke | (1.2 netbook) | 02:11 |
| nasa | auke: I didn't see a power option on the IVI version (will check again) | 02:11 |
| auke | can't say anything for IVI | 02:12 |
| akk | Tablet UX doesn't have anything like that yet, right? | 02:12 |
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| * timeless_xchat sighs | 02:14 | |
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| timeless_xchat | so, i tried demoing the exopc to my aunt and uncle | 02:14 |
| nasa | IVI is based more off of tablet than netbook | 02:14 |
| Venemo | timeless_xchat, how did it go? | 02:14 |
| timeless_xchat | the browser failed to load her blog | 02:14 |
| timeless_xchat | bug filed. | 02:14 |
| pebcak | akk the tablets (exopc) have a powerbutton at the back.... | 02:15 |
| timeless_xchat | he asked me to play a youtube video | 02:15 |
| Venemo | timeless_xchat, what browser is that anyway? | 02:15 |
| pebcak | chromium | 02:15 |
| Venemo | heh | 02:15 |
| timeless_xchat | and it started by giving a plugin thing | 02:15 |
| pebcak | you can install fennec tough | 02:15 |
| timeless_xchat | which i didn't know how to use | 02:15 |
| akk | pebcak: That just powers down, which is a bit different from sleeping or turning off the display ... | 02:15 |
| timeless_xchat | i managed to click it | 02:15 |
| timeless_xchat | and it played poorly and silently | 02:16 |
| pebcak | akk yeah, just read backscroll,sorry | 02:16 |
| Venemo | timeless_xchat, did it ask for the flash plugin? | 02:16 |
| timeless_xchat | venemo: i think it had flash cick to play | 02:16 |
| timeless_xchat | he asked about playing streaming media from his computer | 02:17 |
| timeless_xchat | i suggested he give me a usb stick w/ something | 02:17 |
| timeless_xchat | he did | 02:17 |
| pebcak | doesn't work yet :P | 02:17 |
| timeless_xchat | i tried using the media player (which took ages to load) | 02:17 |
| timeless_xchat | it doesn't seem to auto mount usb media | 02:17 |
| akk | except with a USB stick, you have to plug in a keyboard so you can mount it :/ | 02:17 |
| timeless_xchat | oh, people suggested plugging in a keyboard | 02:17 |
| timeless_xchat | this house has two Windows 7 computers | 02:18 |
| akk | There are a lot of things that still require plugging in a keyboard, it seems. | 02:18 |
| timeless_xchat | both have ps/2 keyboards | 02:18 |
| pebcak | timeless_xchat bet he gave you mp3s anyway | 02:18 |
| pebcak | :P | 02:18 |
| akk | It's very definitely a developer preview, not something that's ready for users. | 02:18 |
| timeless_xchat | akk: it's a nice lap-warmer | 02:19 |
| timeless_xchat | but i'm in sunny southern california, i don't need a lap-warmer | 02:19 |
| Venemo | timeless_xchat, you hadn't cared to prepare for your demoing by testing some trivial use cases, so you humiliated MeeGo in front of them | 02:19 |
| timeless_xchat | i told them i didn't know who made the product | 02:20 |
| * timeless_xchat doesn't know who made the exopc | 02:20 | |
| Venemo | what is the exopc anyway? | 02:20 |
| akk | It's apparently some company in canada. | 02:20 |
| timeless_xchat | oh, also, once the browser decided to reverse scrolling direction relative to display | 02:21 |
| lcuk | timeless_xchat, give people enough new use cases and soon these things find a place | 02:21 |
| pebcak | timeless_xchat can send it over :P | 02:21 |
| lcuk | but treating it like a laptop pc is going to be tough for it | 02:21 |
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| timeless_xchat | pepcak: geo-ping | 02:21 |
| pebcak | germany ;) | 02:22 |
| Venemo | lcuk, it should have handled those use cases seamlessly | 02:22 |
| lcuk | timeless_xchat, example meego use case: http://liqbase.net/20110526_002.jpg | 02:22 |
| timeless_xchat | it's screwing up direction in gmail again | 02:22 |
| pebcak | at least appgrid and lockscreen now work in landscape mode | 02:23 |
| pebcak | :P | 02:23 |
| Venemo | according to http://www.exopc.com/devices/ the exopc is a windows 7 device. | 02:24 |
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| pebcak | it's used as a reference platform for meego tablet ux | 02:25 |
| pebcak | you can also use the wetab | 02:25 |
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| Venemo | why doesn't their web site mention this? | 02:25 |
| pebcak | same hardware (made by asustak afaik) | 02:26 |
| pebcak | °asustek | 02:26 |
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| pebcak | maybe you should ask them | 02:26 |
| Venemo | I don't care that much | 02:28 |
| timeless_xchat | venemo : it comes w/ * windows 7 home premium licence | 02:28 |
| timeless_xchat | i plan to use that somewhere :) | 02:28 |
| Venemo | lol | 02:28 |
| berndhs | ooooh premium | 02:29 |
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| timeless_xchat | venemo : the dublin netbook was windows 7 starter | 02:31 |
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| akk | Can you actually use those exopc licenses on something else? They're not tied to the hardware? | 02:32 |
| akk | I've always heard that licenses bundled with a machine don't work for the retail version on arbitrary hardware (or in a vm). | 02:33 |
| akk | I'd love to be able to run W7 inside virtualbox. | 02:34 |
| Venemo | akk, I occasionally run it inside virtualbox, but it's not really fun | 02:35 |
| berndhs | whats premium, the licence or the W7 ? | 02:35 |
| akk | I know it can't do aero or whatever inside VB, but I mostly want to be able to do things like the occasional test of a website in IE. | 02:36 |
| timeless_xchat | berndhs: windows 7 (and older) comes in various editions | 02:37 |
| timeless_xchat | more expensive editions can do more things than cheaper ones | 02:37 |
| berndhs | i remember vaguely, for some extra $$ i got a preview of real software | 02:38 |
| berndhs | still would have had to pay lots for a normal license though | 02:38 |
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| timeless_xchat | great | 02:48 |
| timeless_xchat | now chromium doesn't have a correct 0x0 coord | 02:48 |
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| timeless_xchat | the page is shifted right 1" and down 1/2 " | 02:48 |
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| Myrtti | is it possible to set up USB networking with the MeeGo Tablet? | 05:15 |
| Myrtti | I suppose it is but I fail at google-fu | 05:15 |
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| dreamer | hi all, trying to follow this guide: https://meego.com/devices/handset/installing-meego-nokia-n900 when booting the kernel with the flasher I see: VFS: cannot open root device "mmcblk0p1" or unknown-block(179,1) | 06:22 |
| dreamer | then followed with: Please append a correct "root=" boot option; | 06:22 |
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| Myrtti | dreamer: I'd redo the dd and/or check the md5sum of the downloaded bz2 file | 08:19 |
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| doi2d | hery | 11:01 |
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| Jarock | hello | 12:04 |
| Jarock | ich habe eine frage. Muss ich das headset oder das tablet image benutzen für das nokia n900. | 12:06 |
| Jarock | fc | 12:06 |
| Jarock | I have a question. Do I need the headset or use the tablet image of the Nokia N900. | 12:06 |
| iekku | Jarock, there's N900 DE image | 12:12 |
| iekku | Jarock, please find out more: http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/DeveloperEdition | 12:12 |
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| Jarock | Is that the right image for nokia n900 ? | 12:15 |
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| iekku | Jarock, it should be | 12:31 |
| Jarock | ok thanks many times I'll try my luck with flash | 12:32 |
| iekku | Jarock, i recommend to run image from sd card | 12:32 |
| iekku | works nice | 12:32 |
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| lardman | morning | 12:33 |
| Jarock | no, I'll do it the EMMC ^^ | 12:33 |
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| delac | trying to install targets to Meego SDK 1.2 with mad-admin, but the "mad-admin list" gives me only old targets like meego-netbook-ia32-1.1.2 and meego-netbook-ia32-trunk which apparently refers to meego-netbook-ia32-1.1.99. Any thoughts? | 12:40 |
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| Anteli | heyy | 12:43 |
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| delac | I think the problem might be because the madde-config packages are not up to date. | 12:52 |
| delac | Does anyone know what is the most current repo for sdk 1.2? | 12:52 |
| delac | Has anyone installed sdk 1.2 succesfully? | 12:52 |
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| delac | Can anyone tell me where the targets are located? In the Internet, that is. Where are they downloaded from? | 12:59 |
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| * bilboed wonders when videos of meego conf will be put online | 13:02 | |
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| pupnikafk | and TSA pics of the attendees | 13:07 |
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| thiago | bilboed: soon, probably this week | 13:30 |
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| thiago | Jaffa: nice blog | 13:58 |
| Jaffa | thiago: thanks. Seems a shame that the hard work of everyone in MeeGo wasn't recognised | 14:00 |
| iekku | what blog, where, who? | 14:00 |
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| chouchoune | iekku: I guess the one available from Meego Aggregator ? | 14:01 |
| Jaffa | iekku: http://is.gd/abI9K4 | 14:02 |
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| iekku | Jaffa, thanks | 14:02 |
| thiago | Jaffa: just one thing: the LF people do recognise Android as a threat | 14:02 |
| thiago | it's Linux, which means they'll help it, but it's not exactly following the ideals of open source | 14:03 |
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| Jaffa | thiago: Perhaps. They've sponsored recent Android confs, so they're conflicted at best. | 14:03 |
| iekku | Jaffa, nice one! | 14:04 |
| Jaffa | Even Intel, with all their effort, isn't dependent on MeeGo succeeding the same way Nokia was pre-Elop | 14:04 |
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| Jaffa | Not much can be done about that in the short term, unless the Harmattan device convinces other vendors (let alone Nokia) that mass-market consumer devices can be successfully built on MeeGo | 14:07 |
| thiago | nokia won't change its mind | 14:09 |
| mihero | doubt harmattan will do that | 14:09 |
| thiago | harmattan is good, but not that good | 14:09 |
| mihero | i think the cinvincing will have to come from tablet or ivi markets | 14:09 |
| mihero | convincing | 14:10 |
| Jaffa | thiago: Indeed | 14:10 |
| lardman | thiago: will Nokia re-evaluate eventually though? | 14:11 |
| Jaffa | mihero: Tablets haven't been successful for anyone but Apple. Samsung have got close with Android but the Honeycomb reviews are mixed at best. MeeGo's tablet efforts (either stock or WeTab) have an almost insurmountable challenge | 14:11 |
| lardman | Jaffa: to echo the previous comments, nice blog post | 14:11 |
| thiago | lardman: that is not my place to say | 14:11 |
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| lardman | thiago: just as a general point though? I would assume that the M$ thing will run for a few years and then some sort of review would occur | 14:12 |
| Jaffa | lardman: Maybe eventually, if WP7 doesn't go as expected. But I'd guess there's a small window... | 14:12 |
| Jaffa | lardman: Thanks | 14:13 |
| mihero | they have to re-evaluate every now and then but it could also be something else then meego they choose if wp7 fails | 14:13 |
| lardman | mihero: sure | 14:13 |
| lardman | thiago: that's not a very optimistic comment about Harmattan ;) | 14:14 |
| lardman | shouldn't you be raving about it? :) | 14:14 |
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| thiago | that it's good but not that good? | 14:15 |
| lardman | yeah :) | 14:16 |
| lardman | I'm only kidding, don't worry | 14:16 |
| mihero | it's not a meego that's why it is not that good:) | 14:16 |
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| thiago | I'd have been more enthousiastic if this device had been released when it was meant to, last year | 14:17 |
| thiago | or even during the conf this week | 14:18 |
| mihero | well, releasing it last year may have changed lots of things | 14:19 |
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| lardman | well I would agree with those sentiments as an outsider who has been left without anything in particular to develop for | 14:21 |
| thiago | I've been using it as my primary device in the office for over 6 months now | 14:21 |
| thiago | 9 months actually | 14:21 |
| lcuk3 | thiago, using what? | 14:21 |
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| thiago | the harmattan-based device | 14:21 |
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| * lardman is looking forward to seeing it, feels a bit like Christmas :) | 14:22 | |
| lcuk | thiago oh cool | 14:22 |
| * lcuk has been carrying around a plastic phone in outside coat pocket for about the last 12 months too | 14:23 | |
| lcuk | it has a great little hoop game on it | 14:23 |
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| lcuk | I won it from the Collabora hogroast | 14:23 |
| lcuk | the game is addictive | 14:23 |
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| * SpeedEvil mugs thiago. | 14:46 | |
| * SpeedEvil wonders if there is anyone else he can bribe with cocoa. | 14:46 | |
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| thiago | you'll get one of them soon | 14:50 |
| SpeedEvil | Been here with waiting for devices before - openmoko. | 14:52 |
| SpeedEvil | Though in this case I have doubt that the second will sell much better than the first. | 14:52 |
| Jaffa | Think this will be orders of magnitude shinier than Openmoko | 14:52 |
| Jaffa | SpeedEvil: Assuming there are two, and the first is "sold" | 14:53 |
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| SpeedEvil | Jaffa: Sure. | 14:54 |
| lardman | SpeedEvil: hey I was waiting for a Pandora before the N900 release and would have still been waiting when N900 production stopped (or near enough) had I not cancelled | 14:54 |
| SpeedEvil | Jaffa: But I have doubts it'll sell lots better than the n900 I meant. | 14:54 |
| lardman | SpeedEvil: Do we care how well it sells? | 14:55 |
| SpeedEvil | Small scale production i _hard_ | 14:55 |
| SpeedEvil | lardman: yes. | 14:55 |
| lardman | I'd quite like to go back to a close knit bunch of devs, less noise on TMO and all that :) | 14:55 |
| SpeedEvil | lardman: If by some freak it sold oodles, there might be reconsideration. | 14:55 |
| lardman | yeah I guess there is that | 14:55 |
| SpeedEvil | OTOH - that'd depress the market for any friendly startups - who knows. | 14:55 |
| SpeedEvil | And well - devs follow bums on seats. | 14:56 |
| SpeedEvil | Few people develop for platforms with 'no' users. | 14:56 |
| lardman | open source devs follow cool hw and sw | 14:56 |
| SpeedEvil | And code rots. | 14:56 |
| lardman | I wonder if the location framework will be extensible this time | 14:57 |
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| Jaffa | lardman: I'd like to have some big names like Spotify et al see Harmattan as a viable platform | 14:57 |
| lardman | or even whether it will need to be | 14:57 |
| SpeedEvil | Indeed. | 14:57 |
| lardman | Jaffa: yeah good point, I suppose some sw is going to be closed source no matter what | 14:58 |
| SpeedEvil | Spotify, Angry Birds, ... | 14:58 |
| lardman | Flash... ;) | 14:58 |
| SpeedEvil | In many ways the depressing part of the meego conference was the increasing importance of hardware DRM pipelines, which the CPU can't touch. | 14:58 |
| SpeedEvil | And the requirement by content providers that these be used. | 14:58 |
| lcuk | is meego just another meetoo distro with same goals and ideals as other devices? | 14:59 |
| lardman | is that bad though? It means the rest of the system can be played with and still DRM stuff will work | 14:59 |
| lcuk | or is it the cutting edge kick ass set of devices which cater and nurture new use cases? | 14:59 |
| lardman | lcuk: yes, to be used on devices fundamentally | 14:59 |
| SpeedEvil | lardman: It's good from that perspective. | 14:59 |
| lardman | lcuk: needs to be both I would say | 14:59 |
| Jaffa | lardman: Indeed, but presumably makes h/w more complicated; and further differentiate Harmattan from MeeGo | 14:59 |
| lcuk | take the ocean/yacht ux use | 15:00 |
| lcuk | most of the things discussed are less important | 15:00 |
| lardman | Jaffa: but this will be necessary on any real product, so c'est la vie | 15:00 |
| lcuk | because internet is frustratingly slow and different needs arise | 15:00 |
| lcuk | mind you, according to timeless yesterday, even with good internet there are frustrations with the normal use cases | 15:01 |
| SpeedEvil | lardman: it's bad from the perspective that copyright holders are increasingly trying to extinguish fair-use clauses from copyright law by end-runs around it. This - plus the eventual migration of content fingerprinting and watermarking into that DRM pipeline, so you can only play the content if the device is approved, ... | 15:01 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: Most ppl here are here to scratch their own itches. Having Angry Birds on the yacht is cool, but if the h/w and OS of the devices *I* use don't meet my use-cases why would I care? | 15:01 |
| SpeedEvil | And you can only play approved media. | 15:01 |
| lardman | lcuk: there will still be a need for someone to develop software, so that is important and that will be helped by large exposure in whatever form | 15:01 |
| lcuk | lardman, indeed we do | 15:02 |
| lardman | SpeedEvil: sure that is a problem, but if we assume there will be DRM and that we might want to listen/view some DRM content, separating out the pipeline makes sense | 15:02 |
| lcuk | I had a rant in #meegoconf yesterday | 15:02 |
| lardman | SpeedEvil: the alternative is the device is locked down | 15:02 |
| lcuk | or somewhere, hmm | 15:02 |
| lcuk | Jaffa, which device current meets your use case? | 15:03 |
| lardman | lcuk: equally one will get a snowball effect, more devices -> more companies, and round you go | 15:03 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: N900, mostly | 15:03 |
| lcuk | mostly | 15:03 |
| lcuk | what is missing? | 15:03 |
| SpeedEvil | lardman: In the long term, I'm worried that it will simply be impossible to play most meduia on a rooted device - even if you have the hardware pipeline, because the authors have not approved it. | 15:03 |
| lardman | lcuk: better sw, more modern hw, larger screen | 15:03 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: Battery life, performance, commercial success & support | 15:04 |
| lcuk | playing devils advocate: the galaxy tab you have does that? | 15:04 |
| lardman | SpeedEvil: I understand the worry, but surely a separate hw pipeline gives us more chance of being able to still play DRM stuff on a rooted device, not less | 15:04 |
| lardman | lcuk: me? No I bought that as a project, I don't use it much other than ebook reading and some Meego hacking | 15:05 |
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| lcuk | lardman, I was answering Jaffa too | 15:05 |
| lardman | lcuk: though I may install Ubuntu on it and use it for meeting presentations of data - using e.g. Octave and gnuplot (as my day-to-day is MATLAB) | 15:05 |
| lardman | re Tab, the browser works well, the email client works well, the calendar works well | 15:06 |
| lardman | and maps too | 15:06 |
| lardman | certainly far better than the N900 | 15:06 |
| SpeedEvil | lardman: Assuming rational content providers. And I'm not so much worried about this generation of device, or the next. But when the DRM pipeline gets fingerprinting, so you can only play approved content. | 15:06 |
| lcuk | lardman, and it can setup a wifi hotspot easily | 15:06 |
| lardman | on all those counts | 15:06 |
| lcuk | it does have nice integration | 15:06 |
| lardman | lcuk: nice integration of what exactly? No idea about wifi hotspot, not of interest to me really | 15:06 |
| lardman | SpeedEvil: well then we'll need to strip the DRM on our main computers first ;) | 15:07 |
| dreamer | Myrtti: hmm, since I no longer have the bz2 I'll try the dd again | 15:07 |
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| lardman | lcuk: big issue with the Tab is that the screen is large, which means if you use it too much the battery dies :) but large screen is also the main advantage of the device | 15:08 |
| lardman | catch 22 | 15:08 |
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| SpeedEvil | I have posted - ages back - about partial screen illumination on openmoko. | 15:09 |
| lardman | SpeedEvil: yes I seem to remember reading something about that | 15:10 |
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| SpeedEvil | Which helps somewhat in principle - but there is stil a fairly large slice of power needed to keep the display refreshed. | 15:10 |
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| lcuk | lardman, lol | 15:10 |
| lardman | yeah, it's not ideal for ebook reading (pdfs mainly) but it is colour | 15:10 |
| lcuk | lower brightness, use high contrast | 15:10 |
| lardman | lcuk: the Tab is a different class of device though | 15:11 |
| SpeedEvil | Does the screen transflect at all? | 15:11 |
| lcuk | that is how I extend battery life on my n900 and n810 before it | 15:11 |
| lardman | no I don't think so | 15:11 |
| lcuk | lardman, it is one of the meego target uxes though isnt it? | 15:11 |
| SpeedEvil | Yeah - in good conditions on the n900, you can use it with no backlight. | 15:11 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: I don't have a Galaxy Tab. The iPad I have is for a totally different use case rather than the always-with-me,always-on,always-connected N900 | 15:11 |
| lardman | lcuk: yeah, though Intel only thus far, though thanks for the pointer to the ARM image - I need to do some kernel tweaking and see if I can get multi touch working, then get back to Meego-isation | 15:12 |
| lardman | Jaffa: +1 | 15:12 |
| lcuk | Jaffa, right so does your n900 run meego? | 15:12 |
| lcuk | one of mine does | 15:12 |
| lardman | SpeedEvil: yeah, I wonder how well that would work, how much of a difference it would make on the Tab | 15:13 |
| lcuk | and I was pushing for updates over reflashes and data import recently | 15:13 |
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| lardman | lcuk: I'm down to one, so not yet, I have some mBarcode patching to do first | 15:13 |
| lcuk | if all people are doing is daily//weekly tests and not filling with data etc it isnt strong for usability | 15:13 |
| lcuk | sure lardman - that same tweaking can technically be done using maemo though? | 15:14 |
| lcuk | so your playtest case can evolve whilst meego core catches up? | 15:14 |
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| lardman | what do you mean? I need to run Maemo to make sure the packages work on the majority of N900s which don't run Meego | 15:14 |
| lcuk | lardman, the meego camera app is open source by the way | 15:15 |
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| lcuk | it is feasible to add barcode button and link to the processor now | 15:15 |
| lardman | lcuk: yeah I saw that, sounds promising | 15:15 |
| lcuk | unlike it was on the maemo build | 15:15 |
| lardman | absolutely | 15:15 |
| * lcuk smiles | 15:15 | |
| lcuk | that button and linkup was requested a looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong time ago | 15:15 |
| lardman | I'm planning to take a look at that, need some time though, have to prioritise atm, and the priority is the existing users | 15:16 |
| * lcuk nods | 15:16 | |
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| lardman | though once the N900DE image is day to day usable (which it may be now), then would be the time to jump over | 15:16 |
| lardman | though I don't look forward to setting up toolchains and private repos and the like | 15:17 |
| lardman | again, I need some time to work it all out | 15:17 |
| lcuk | lardman, I have stopped reflashing every day because I am able to use it for various things and filling in more data to see how that copes | 15:17 |
| lcuk | the nature of the bugs are changing from "i cannot run blah" to "when using blah ..." | 15:17 |
| lcuk | which is massive shift in usability | 15:18 |
| alterego | I've not been flashing daily for ages | 15:18 |
| * lcuk flashes when told an important bug has been fixed | 15:18 | |
| alterego | I work on an image and if I have a bug that prevents what I'm doing is fixed, I'll update | 15:19 |
| lcuk | the n900-de has come on in leaps and bounds | 15:19 |
| lardman | would be good to be able to update in an ssu fashion | 15:19 |
| alterego | Yeah | 15:19 |
| lcuk | lardman, yeah but that is tricky even from general meego perspective | 15:19 |
| SpeedEvil | Oooh - I can SSU from maemo to meego - how? And do all my calendars and contacts stay? | 15:20 |
| alterego | It's on the cards, but it's quite a way away. | 15:20 |
| SpeedEvil | :) | 15:20 |
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| alterego | SpeedEvil: no :P | 15:20 |
| lardman | SpeedEvil: :) | 15:20 |
| lardman | are there any up to date screen shots of the N900DE apps? | 15:20 |
| lardman | and any info about how to import contacts, calendar, etc? | 15:20 |
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| lardman | hmm, lunchtime, /me goes to buy some bacon and eggs for cooking. mmmm :) | 15:22 |
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| lcuk | lol @ all the new twitter followers after just a couple of random posts http://twitter.com/lcuk | 15:39 |
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| SpeedEvil | I should probably get a 'proper' twitter account. | 15:41 |
| SpeedEvil | I've only had a quarantined one so fer. | 15:42 |
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| SpeedEvil | I'm still boggling at the fact I've got 11 followers. | 15:43 |
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| lcuk | SpeedEvil, I wonder where most of my followers come from | 15:43 |
| lcuk | but people just keep adding themselves, tis amusing | 15:44 |
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| SpeedEvil | On an unrelated matter - does DE have flash? | 15:48 |
| delac | trying to install targets to Meego SDK 1.2 with mad-admin, but the "mad-admin list" gives me only old targets like meego-netbook-ia32-1.1.2 and meego-netbook-ia32-trunk which apparently refers to meego-netbook-ia32-1.1.99. Any thoughts? | 15:49 |
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| * SpeedEvil idlyu wonders about JS-in-hardware accelleration. | 15:50 | |
| alterego | SpeedEvil: why don't you try and write a js interpreter in GLSL :P | 15:53 |
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| wirehack7 | hello, one question: how to install make? i tried with the software manager, but it has been stuck, waiting for 30min now to install | 15:56 |
| wirehack7 | but to install make i downloaded make, cd to the dir of unpacked files, made ./configure, but the next thing i have to do is make and make install | 15:57 |
| wirehack7 | i have no make... | 15:57 |
| sirdancealot | :D | 15:57 |
| delac | wirehack7: are you using the notebook edition? | 15:58 |
| wirehack7 | delac, yes netbook | 15:58 |
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| delac | wirehack7: because I think there is some bug on the packagemanager | 15:58 |
| delac | wirehack7: stop the install | 15:58 |
| wirehack7 | i stopped | 15:58 |
| delac | wirehack7: fetch the repso again | 15:58 |
| delac | repos* | 15:58 |
| delac | wirehack7: and try to install the make | 15:59 |
| wirehack7 | i did | 15:59 |
| wirehack7 | kk | 15:59 |
| delac | I had the same problem with my system | 15:59 |
| delac | first time I tried to install anything, it would just hang | 16:00 |
| delac | had to stop the install and fetch the repos | 16:00 |
| delac | then it would work | 16:00 |
| delac | althoug it did take long time even after that | 16:00 |
| alterego | Looks like they edited out my phone number :D | 16:00 |
| alterego | Are the sessions up yet? | 16:01 |
| wirehack7 | resolving dependencies is there know | 16:01 |
| alterego | Erm, videos | 16:01 |
| wirehack7 | *now | 16:01 |
| delac | that might take some time | 16:02 |
| wirehack7 | kk, i go buying food now | 16:02 |
| wirehack7 | maybe a good thing in that time | 16:02 |
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| wirehack7 | and why it's so awkward in MeeGo, in ubuntu just sudo apt-get install make :( | 16:06 |
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| berndhs | wirehack7: to install "make" on meego, just do zypper install make | 16:08 |
| wirehack7 | phew, that was easy, thanks alot berndhs | 16:09 |
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| blindfish_ | hi | 16:10 |
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| dreamer | Myrtti: ok, have a correct md5sum now at least. so redoing everything hehe | 16:19 |
| lardman | mmm, bacon was good | 16:20 |
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| lardman | SpeedEvil: not sure JS is going to be a very good candidate for parallelised hw acceleration | 16:20 |
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| lcuk | lardman, which language is good for parallelised accel | 16:40 |
| lcuk | mmm bacon (lag) | 16:41 |
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| dreamer | hmmm, still getting this: VFS: cannot open root device "mmcblk0p1" or unknown-block(179,1) - using the flasher on my n900 | 16:41 |
| dreamer | I checked the image and the md5 of the bz2 is correct | 16:42 |
| lcuk | dreamer, pastebin the full log including command line used for flasher | 16:42 |
| dreamer | lcuk: where do I get the log? | 16:42 |
| lcuk | where are you noticing the problem? | 16:42 |
| dreamer | on boot | 16:43 |
| lcuk | well then I have lost context, start again and explain your problem | 16:43 |
| dreamer | https://meego.com/devices/handset/installing-meego-nokia-n900 << last step of this guide | 16:43 |
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| dreamer | using meego-handset-armv7l-n900-1.1-mmcblk0p.raw.bz2 | 16:44 |
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| wirehack7 | how to change the name of the device? | 16:44 |
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| lardman | lcuk: good to write code, or a good language to parallelise? | 16:45 |
| wirehack7 | it's PC-192-168- now, want to change it | 16:45 |
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| pupnika_ | how about you shits grow a pair of testicles | 16:48 |
| pupnika_ | and reject the tyranny | 16:48 |
| pupnika_ | before you die forever | 16:48 |
| pupnika_ | has that occcured to you, you intel dickheads? | 16:48 |
| dreamer | ? | 16:48 |
| dreamer | what is your problem pupnika_ ? | 16:49 |
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| pupnika_ | reality? durrr? | 16:49 |
| pupnika_ | tyranny | 16:49 |
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| pupnika_ | 'i love das furerher' | 16:49 |
| pupnika_ | hey RST38bis | 16:49 |
| dm8tbr | getting wasted again, eh? | 16:50 |
| dreamer | what are you talking about man? | 16:50 |
| pupnika_ | these idiots think life is normal | 16:50 |
| RST38bis | life is normal. | 16:50 |
| pupnika_ | 250,000 national security letters | 16:50 |
| pupnika_ | the nazi state is watching you | 16:50 |
| dm8tbr | DawnFoster / Stskeeps - ping! | 16:51 |
| pupnika_ | i hate stupid fucking idiots... especially in the open-source community | 16:51 |
| RST38bis | your definition of "normal" is too narrow :) | 16:51 |
| pupnika_ | you will march into the gas chambers | 16:51 |
| dreamer | pupnika_: sounds | 16:52 |
| dreamer | oops | 16:52 |
| dreamer | pupnika_: sounds like a stupid rant to me | 16:52 |
| pupnika_ | i can document all of this dreamer | 16:52 |
| pupnika_ | bitch, i'll show you | 16:52 |
| dreamer | what is the use of ranting here? what do you think it will accomplish? | 16:52 |
| pupnika_ | this is what meego opposes | 16:52 |
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| pupnika_ | free software can prevent tyranny | 16:53 |
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| dreamer | I think any support channel an freenode opposes random rants that have no use | 16:53 |
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| pupnika_ | dreamer: 250,000 national security letters | 16:53 |
| dreamer | I don't know what that means | 16:53 |
| dreamer | and why it should interest me | 16:54 |
| pupnika_ | because you are a zero brain | 16:54 |
| pupnika_ | null... scheisse | 16:54 |
| pupnika_ | a fish | 16:54 |
| dreamer | pupnika_: you sound like a 16 y/o that watched too many Michael Moore movies | 16:54 |
| pupnika_ | you are 23 | 16:54 |
| wirehack7 | a german little kid | 16:54 |
| dm8tbr | dreamer: please stop feeding the drunk troll | 16:55 |
| dreamer | so instead of ranting, you could have a productive conversation | 16:55 |
| pupnika_ | lol | 16:55 |
| dreamer | dm8tbr: yeah, sorry | 16:55 |
| pupnika_ | dm8tbr: i'll fuck you up any time i want | 16:55 |
| * dm8tbr put an ignore in and suggests everyone else does | 16:55 | |
| dm8tbr | as freenode staff refused to handle this (not on access list) and meego staff is not around | 16:55 |
| pupnika_ | dm8tbr: you're a cunt | 16:55 |
| RST38bis | Penguins, pupnik. Have you ever considered the penguins? They are taking over your life. They are coming into your dreams every night and stare with their empty avian eyes, beaks open in anticipation. | 16:55 |
| dreamer | anyway, does anyone have an idea what I'm getting this VFS: cannot open root device "mmcblk0p1" or unknown-block(179,1) flashing the 1.1 image on my n900? | 16:56 |
| pupnika_ | RST38bis: i am here to disturb the penguins | 16:56 |
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| RST38bis | Stop them before it is too late! | 16:56 |
| dm8tbr | dreamer: back cover? | 16:56 |
| dreamer | it's there | 16:56 |
| RST38bis | Before these penguins get you and force you into repeating the same open source mantra over and over! | 16:57 |
| wirehack7 | go and make something own pupnika_ before trolling ppl how bad they are | 16:57 |
| wirehack7 | do it even better | 16:57 |
| RST38bis | Reject the penguins! Tell no to penguins! Accept Ballmer as your one and only God before it is too late! | 16:57 |
| RST38bis | Only He can save you from the inevitable, the avian occupation by the ugly, mute, rotten fish smelling birds! | 16:58 |
| pupnika_ | sorry | 16:59 |
| dreamer | dm8tbr: it just kernel panics | 16:59 |
| pupnika_ | stop the joking | 16:59 |
| dm8tbr | dreamer: did you put your backcover on? | 16:59 |
| * RST38bis stops and goes off to see St Petersburg | 16:59 | |
| pupnika_ | RST38bis: what's wrong with you | 16:59 |
| pupnika_ | dm8tbr: i should troutslap you | 16:59 |
| RST38bis | pupnik: I am showing how to troll Properly. | 16:59 |
| pupnika_ | RST38bis: ok | 17:00 |
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| pupnika_ | RST38bis: it's not funny | 17:00 |
| pupnika_ | i'm using my time to disperse info | 17:00 |
| pupnika_ | why do you try to make jokes | 17:00 |
| blindfish_ | rofl | 17:00 |
| blindfish_ | pupnika made my day ... | 17:01 |
| psycho_oreos | Stskeeps, andre__, X-Fade, DawnFoster, sofar, w00t_ and gabrbedd: ping | 17:01 |
| pupnika_ | blindfish_: your nick is a very good one | 17:01 |
| blindfish_ | your's not | 17:01 |
| pupnika_ | americunts are the dumbest fish in the sea | 17:01 |
| wirehack7 | he's even german | 17:01 |
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| wirehack7 | trololol | 17:01 |
| pupnika_ | and you will die in a lead storm | 17:01 |
| wirehack7 | you will die by heart disease | 17:02 |
| dm8tbr | are the others also chanops? only knew about dawn and carsten | 17:02 |
| blindfish_ | wirehack7: you think pupnika is german? | 17:02 |
| blindfish_ | why? | 17:02 |
| pupnika_ | dm8tbr: is one of the tarded germans who can't see past their own shell script | 17:02 |
| pupnika_ | but he is better than american retards | 17:02 |
| pupnika_ | he's just AFRAID of OFFENDING AMERICANS | 17:03 |
| pupnika_ | HAHAHAHAHAH | 17:03 |
| pupnika_ | CUNT! | 17:03 |
| wirehack7 | blindfish_, dns look up | 17:03 |
| psycho_oreos | dm8tbr, according to /msg chanserv access #meego list | 17:03 |
| pupnika_ | PUSSY! | 17:03 |
| dm8tbr | was too lazy to look that up and remembered that the two were 'the ones to contact' | 17:04 |
| pupnika_ | dm8tbr: your contributions to linux are unassailable | 17:04 |
| pupnika_ | so i'll go away | 17:04 |
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| pupnika_ | wait, but you are a fucking pussy | 17:05 |
| blindfish_ | hmm ... the german become stupider each day. need to emigrade i guess | 17:05 |
| pupnika_ | and you suck satan's cock all day and night | 17:05 |
| pupnika_ | except for your work for linux | 17:05 |
| * dm8tbr did and lives happily in finland :> | 17:05 | |
| pupnika_ | you're an idiot | 17:05 |
| wirehack7 | that's because even more and more kids get access to a internet conenction blindfish_ | 17:05 |
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| * isolor is away: I might be doing something more interesting than being here | 17:06 | |
| * isolor is back (gone 00:00:03) | 17:06 | |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Stskeeps | 17:07 | |
| *** Stskeeps sets mode: +b *!*pupnik@*.t-dialin.net | 17:08 | |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: -o Stskeeps | 17:08 | |
| delac | trying to install targets to Meego SDK 1.2 with mad-admin, but the "mad-admin list" gives me only old targets like meego-netbook-ia32-1.1.2 and meego-netbook-ia32-trunk which apparently refers to meego-netbook-ia32-1.1.99. Any thoughts? | 17:08 |
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| blindfish_ | wirehack7: yes, some assholes in the german government count the internet-connection to basic services, so - ass we all se - every syphilitic monkey gets a free access :( | 17:09 |
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| SpeedEvil | lardman: I wasn't meaning offloading it onto the DSP - I was wondering if it was plausible to do an actual hardware unit. | 17:13 |
| SpeedEvil | lardman: Some features do make it awkward though. | 17:13 |
| SpeedEvil | Well - most features. | 17:14 |
| SpeedEvil | Strongly typed langeages without implicit stuff are much easier. | 17:14 |
| SpeedEvil | DOM adds annoyance too. | 17:14 |
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| andre__ | psycho_oreos, what's up? | 17:21 |
| psycho_oreos | andre__, thanks but Stskeeps sorted it out :) | 17:21 |
| andre__ | ah. I see | 17:21 |
| psycho_oreos | was a troll issue that happened earlier on | 17:21 |
| andre__ | yeah | 17:21 |
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| Vanadis | i just heard someone was gnoming in here? | 17:27 |
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| psycho_oreos | gnoming? | 17:28 |
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| Vanadis | psycho_oreos, yes, gnoming | 17:31 |
| dm8tbr | yes but it got handled | 17:31 |
| delac | anyone installed meego on netbook alongside some other linux? does that work fine? any problems with bootloaders? | 17:31 |
| psycho_oreos | Vanadis, if you meant troll yes | 17:33 |
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| mwichmann | hmmm, have occasion to want to use an arm image in qemu, does anyone know the right fu (kickstart) to make it work? | 18:12 |
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| mwichmann | the ia32 kickstarts have pkgs that dont seem to exist in the arm repo | 18:13 |
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| delac | trying to install targets to Meego SDK 1.2 with mad-admin, but the "mad-admin list" gives me only old targets like meego-netbook-ia32-1.1.2 and meego-netbook-ia32-trunk which apparently refers to meego-netbook-ia32-1.1.99. Any thoughts? | 18:25 |
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| Myrtti | wow, that was somewhat unexpected turn in the events | 18:27 |
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| dm8tbr | lol, the meego-ux-daemon doesn't take it well when you restrict the available scaling frequencies! | 18:27 |
| dm8tbr | started crashing every few seconds | 18:27 |
| lcuk | Myrtti, ? | 18:27 |
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| Myrtti | pupnik losing his marbles | 18:28 |
| mah454 | Hello ... | 18:28 |
| mah454 | I install meego-1.1 | 18:28 |
| dm8tbr | not surprising at all, happens every now and then | 18:28 |
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| mah454 | meego-1.1 have not yum command ?! | 18:29 |
| mah454 | why ? | 18:29 |
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| dm8tbr | zypper | 18:29 |
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| dm8tbr | use that | 18:29 |
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| delac | has anyone managed to use the Meego SDK 1.2? | 18:43 |
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| mwichmann | delac: only a bit, it's giving me lots of trouble too | 18:45 |
| berndhs | delac: yes a little, seems to work ok | 18:45 |
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| delac | what is the version number of the most current Targets? as given by "mad-admin list"? | 18:46 |
| lcuk | lardman, earlier you mentioned parallel programming | 18:47 |
| lcuk | http://developers.slashdot.org/story/11/05/27/1831251/What-Makes-Parallel-Programming-Difficult | 18:47 |
| lcuk | noticed that now | 18:47 |
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| berndhs | one of the things that makes it hard is that people do multi-threading instead | 18:49 |
| berndhs | with really low level synchronization | 18:49 |
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| berndhs | multi-threading is a really dumb choice as a programming model | 18:49 |
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| raster | not really | 18:50 |
| berndhs | its idiotic | 18:50 |
| raster | multi-threading is just the basic mechanism | 18:50 |
| raster | how you USE it matters | 18:50 |
| raster | eg | 18:50 |
| berndhs | I said as a programming model | 18:50 |
| raster | if u decide to go spwaning a new thread for everything you do.. u'll not come out well | 18:50 |
| raster | if you just have a worker thread per cpu hanging about\ | 18:51 |
| berndhs | expressing your parallel algorithm in terms of multi-threading is wrong | 18:51 |
| raster | and u throw tasks onto work queues for them | 18:51 |
| raster | and then just wake them up once their queue has something worth waking up for in it | 18:51 |
| raster | u're probably doing better | 18:51 |
| raster | :) | 18:51 |
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| berndhs | multi-threading is a manufacturing solution, not a programming model | 18:51 |
| raster | it is a model | 18:51 |
| raster | its the same model everyone has used for years | 18:52 |
| raster | just multiplied by N | 18:52 |
| raster | ie N stacks | 18:52 |
| berndhs | yes but it is there because of manufacturing advantages | 18:52 |
| raster | N execution contexts | 18:52 |
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| berndhs | right | 18:52 |
| berndhs | that's idiotic | 18:52 |
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| raster | thats what the hardware looks like | 18:52 |
| berndhs | right | 18:52 |
| berndhs | and using that as a programming model is idiotic | 18:52 |
| raster | even that doesnt help u all the time | 18:53 |
| berndhs | nobody writes programs in terms of registsers and caches | 18:53 |
| raster | eg u may have 2 or 4 or 8 cores | 18:53 |
| raster | but they share the same cache and memory bus | 18:53 |
| berndhs | but thats what the hardware looks like | 18:53 |
| raster | if they are all hammering on memory access | 18:53 |
| raster | u can easily perform worse with workload split | 18:53 |
| raster | that it being just concentrated in a single thread | 18:53 |
| delac | mwichmann: what kind of problems? and what targets you use? | 18:53 |
| berndhs | so writing multi-programs as excatly the hardware model is not a good idea either | 18:53 |
| raster | of course multilpe cores look great when youa re compute not access bound | 18:53 |
| raster | :) | 18:53 |
| berndhs | i'm not talking about details of how to use it most efficiently | 18:54 |
| mwichmann | delac: we had the tablet download problem last week | 18:54 |
| berndhs | i'm talking about getting correct execution with good parallelism | 18:54 |
| mwichmann | (now fixed but there seems to be more problems there) | 18:54 |
| berndhs | and multi-threading is fundamentally the wrong way to do that | 18:54 |
| mwichmann | well this week... time not moving that fast :) | 18:54 |
| mwichmann | I built for netbook but it refused to use the right toolchain and built native instead, so I got x86_64 rpm in the end :( | 18:55 |
| mwichmann | I seem to have it beaten into some shape now | 18:55 |
| raster | berndhs: iu dont mean multithreading | 18:55 |
| raster | u mean multiple execution units\ | 18:56 |
| berndhs | yes you are talking about efficiencies | 18:56 |
| berndhs | I am talking about the evil nature of multi threading as a programming model | 18:56 |
| berndhs | its too low level | 18:57 |
| raster | people would argue that c and c++ are too low level | 18:57 |
| raster | just go use erlang | 18:57 |
| raster | :) | 18:57 |
| raster | FACt is.. | 18:57 |
| berndhs | and worse, if you write a multi-thread program, it won't work on any other multi-processor | 18:57 |
| raster | c/c++ are low level | 18:57 |
| berndhs | so what? | 18:58 |
| raster | and thus.. multithreading falls into their ballpark | 18:58 |
| raster | u casn build a higher level thing on top of them | 18:58 |
| raster | ie | 18:58 |
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| raster | erlang | 18:58 |
| delac | mwichmann: do you remember the version number for the netbook target? | 18:58 |
| berndhs | c++ can run on many different architectures | 18:58 |
| berndhs | c++ being low level has nothing to do with it | 18:58 |
| raster | so can a multithreaded one | 18:58 |
| mwichmann | I was using 1.1.2 | 18:58 |
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| berndhs | you can write message passing programs in c++ if you want | 18:58 |
| berndhs | and people do that | 18:59 |
| delac | mwichmann: hmm, that is the problem I'm having. I think that is too old version. It should be at least 1.2.0 at this point. | 18:59 |
| mwichmann | yes, I'll switch; I specifically needed a 1.1 example for my talk, because the compliance checker is only at 1.1 | 19:00 |
| berndhs | multi-threading is just a hardware implementation | 19:00 |
| berndhs | should not be used as a general purpose model to write programs | 19:00 |
| delac | mwichmann: do you have anything newer available? I dont seem to even have anything. | 19:00 |
| mwichmann | mad-admin shows me a large list | 19:01 |
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| delac | mwichmann: do you have anything over 1.20? | 19:01 |
| mwichmann | ... but not, apparently, a 1.2 for netbook | 19:01 |
| mwichmann | it's confusing; the installer tool shows different things than this | 19:01 |
| raster | berndhs: c is a hardware implementation too | 19:02 |
| raster | it should also not be used to write programs? | 19:02 |
| berndhs | no its niot | 19:02 |
| raster | what should we use then? | 19:02 |
| raster | yes it is | 19:02 |
| berndhs | C is a programming language | 19:02 |
| raster | they are fundamentally no different | 19:02 |
| berndhs | yes they are | 19:02 |
| delac | mwichmann: interesting | 19:02 |
| berndhs | you can run C on many different types of hardware | 19:02 |
| raster | multithreading exposes a concurrent execution and control model that maps onto the kind of hardware we have | 19:02 |
| berndhs | multi-threading is the worst way to do that | 19:03 |
| raster | and u can run mukltithreaded apps on all the same hardware | 19:03 |
| berndhs | as a programming model | 19:03 |
| raster | its the same thing | 19:03 |
| berndhs | as a hardware implementation its fine | 19:03 |
| raster | c assumes a unified memory model | 19:03 |
| berndhs | no it is not the same thing | 19:03 |
| raster | so does multithreading | 19:03 |
| berndhs | nonsense | 19:03 |
| delac | mwichmann: do you have something called MaintenaceTool installed on your system? | 19:03 |
| raster | c assumes a stack and a heap, so does multithreading | 19:03 |
| raster | ... | 19:03 |
| raster | not nonsense | 19:03 |
| mwichmann | delac: the installer has downloaded for me meego-netbook-ia32-qemu-1.2.0-raw.tar.bz2 and meego-core-ia32-madde-sysroot-1.2.0-fs.tar.bz2 | 19:03 |
| berndhs | no C does not assume a stack and heap in hardware | 19:04 |
| mwichmann | yes, by "installer" I mean the maintenance tool | 19:04 |
| berndhs | multi threading assumes a shared memory space | 19:04 |
| raster | and multithreading doesnt ASSUME multiple cores | 19:04 |
| berndhs | and that is already a bad programming model for most parallel machines | 19:04 |
| raster | C does assume a stack and heap | 19:04 |
| raster | malloc and friends expose a heap | 19:04 |
| raster | the fact that u can even call a function assumes a stack (to allow for recursion) | 19:05 |
| berndhs | no you can have malloc on some other memory model | 19:05 |
| raster | the fact that u have pointers and can pass them around from func to func assumes a unified memory model/space | 19:05 |
| berndhs | function calls do not assume a hardware stack | 19:05 |
| raster | there is no such thing as a hardware stack | 19:05 |
| delac | mwichmann: hmm, I gues I need to use the installer too. I just set up the repos and hoped it would get me all I need but apparently the installer fetches something extra. | 19:05 |
| berndhs | there is no good reason to assume shared memory as a model for parallel programs | 19:06 |
| raster | a stack is simply a storage space you push elements onto as u go down the call tree | 19:06 |
| raster | and pop from when done to get returns etc. | 19:06 |
| berndhs | it makes things really hard to get correct | 19:06 |
| raster | the fact that u can just pass pointers to elements on a stack to functions and have them operate on them the same as memmory froma heap etc. | 19:06 |
| raster | assumes a unified memory model | 19:06 |
| mwichmann | delac: yes, that's right; the big globs (qemu runtimes, sysroots) are downloaded by madde (mad-admin) | 19:06 |
| raster | its fundamentally no differeht to pthreads | 19:06 |
| berndhs | you can write distributed memory models in C | 19:06 |
| mwichmann | the installer calls those for you, but you can also do manually | 19:06 |
| mwichmann | try "mad-admin list" | 19:07 |
| berndhs | jsut that you can also write uniform memory models does not mean you have to | 19:07 |
| raster | you can | 19:07 |
| raster | u have to WRAP it all | 19:07 |
| raster | behind calls | 19:07 |
| raster | no different to pthreads | 19:07 |
| mwichmann | you don't /have/ to use the installer, but it seems to be easier now | 19:07 |
| raster | u can turn it into message passin g or something else if u want | 19:07 |
| berndhs | yes and expressing all parallel algorithms in the lowest hardware implementation is what is idiotic | 19:07 |
| delac | mwichmann: well I was actually counting on that, but apparently get madde doesnt seem to find the newest targets. Didnt you say that the installer does find them? | 19:07 |
| mwichmann | mad-admin fetch to download, mad-admin create to unpack | 19:08 |
| berndhs | and *teaching* this as the normal parallel programming model is worse | 19:08 |
| mwichmann | I've got a dual-boot setup here and happen to be booted into the wrong universe | 19:08 |
| raster | der as will 10000's of people say that exposing pointers (memory) in a programming model is idiotic | 19:08 |
| berndhs | you can run things like message passing just find on the hardware we have | 19:08 |
| mwichmann | it does seem to be finding the right stuff when I chroot into the other one | 19:08 |
| raster | they are no different | 19:08 |
| berndhs | I dont care what thousands of people say | 19:09 |
| mwichmann | e.g. under Targets I now see: meego-netbook-ia32-1.2.0 (installed) | 19:09 |
| raster | the threading model (i'll talk of pthreads here as i believe thats whats being assumed) is in the same boat as tyhe rest of the c/c+= world | 19:09 |
| berndhs | millions of people voted for Stalin | 19:09 |
| mwichmann | and under Runtimes: meego-netbook-ia32-qemu-1.2.0-runtime (installed) | 19:09 |
| berndhs | no the threading model is in the boat of minds with no imagination | 19:09 |
| lardman | lcuk: thanks for the links | 19:09 |
| delac | mwichmann: well, my problem is that I dont see it even as available | 19:09 |
| mwichmann | ugh | 19:09 |
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| berndhs | i'm talking about multi-programming | 19:10 |
| lcuk | lardman, better than the link is the conversation it spawned :) | 19:10 |
| berndhs | not about some specific implementation of it | 19:10 |
| berndhs | and I think that is where the disagreement is | 19:10 |
| lardman | worst problem I have is trying to get a handle on memory latency & memory movement speeds vs processor occupancy | 19:10 |
| berndhs | that you don't see a model, you only see implementation | 19:10 |
| delac | mwichmann: can you tell me what version of madde-config-ia32 you have installed? | 19:10 |
| mwichmann | madde-config-ia32-0.7.59-3.1.x86_64 | 19:11 |
| lardman | found a rather shaky video of N900DE on TMO | 19:11 |
| delac | mwichmann: hmm, same version as I have... | 19:11 |
| lardman | lcuk: did you say it has a calendar onboard? | 19:11 |
| berndhs | I write C++ code with pointers, they have little or nothing to do with the memory hardware | 19:12 |
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| berndhs | and in fact, the uniform memory assumed by C does not exist in hardware | 19:13 |
| berndhs | hardware has a hierachy of caches and registers, paging and swapping | 19:13 |
| berndhs | there is no flat uniform memory in hardware | 19:13 |
| mwichmann | delac: perhaps there's someone on #meego-sdk who knows how to unstick your setup (or rather, get it to refresh the list of targets/runtimes) | 19:14 |
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| lardman | working out which is the best to use of texture memory vs coalesced reads from global GPU memory is unfortunately a pita | 19:14 |
| lardman | though they both use the same memory, but different read caching, afaiu | 19:15 |
| delac | mwichmann: I think that might be meego-devel, althoug that place is pretty dead right now... | 19:15 |
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| lardman | lcuk: nice example: MATLAB code takes 850s, MATLAB code using GPU extensions takes 9s :) | 19:16 |
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| lcuk | alterego, why does dialer component have a close button? | 19:19 |
| lcuk | I thought tablet ui did not have that, have you added it yourself? | 19:19 |
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| dm8tbr | lol, someone might want to fix the meego.com frontpage... | 19:25 |
| lardman | dm8tbr: it never seems to be very up to date ;) | 19:26 |
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| lcuk | dm8tbr, it took maemo quite a while to move lardman from the front page :P | 19:30 |
| lardman | lcuk: oi! | 19:30 |
| lardman | my immense mass | 19:30 |
| lcuk | is that what you call your gut nowadays? :P | 19:31 |
| lardman | :) | 19:31 |
| lardman | some people might get offended :p | 19:32 |
| dm8tbr | ok, and given the mass of that bridge up there it might take a year or two | 19:32 |
| lcuk | lardman, have you seen/tried appupavatar.com ? | 19:32 |
| lardman | lcuk: yeah I had a quick look the other day | 19:32 |
| berndhs | the pope has immense mass on easter and xmas | 19:32 |
| lcuk | lol dm8tbr | 19:32 |
| lardman | lol | 19:32 |
| lcuk | no wonder the meegon with a hatt on is smiling | 19:33 |
| lcuk | he made a whole bridge levitate! | 19:33 |
| lcuk | speaking of which, what time is doctor who on? | 19:33 |
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| lardman | dunno, I don't watch it, was always scared of it as a kid :) | 19:34 |
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| berndhs | he was one of my professors, Dr Hu | 19:35 |
| berndhs | did combinatorics | 19:36 |
| javispedro | and killed aliens? | 19:36 |
| berndhs | well, he was already of advanced age, maybe earlier in his life | 19:36 |
| dm8tbr | meh, i thought this exopc was so spiffy and all. if you actually have something showing in those panels on tablet UX it gets all jerky if you swipe... | 19:37 |
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| chouchoune | I've read that Fedora 15 will be supported later for Meego SDK ... | 19:44 |
| chouchoune | but does anyone know if it will be soon or not ? | 19:44 |
| lardman | anyone know if I can pass an argument to the callback of a QTimer::singleShot() ? | 19:45 |
| chouchoune | Do I have to downgrade to Fedora 15 or Ubuntu 10.10 to develop for Meego or is it just a matter of days/weeks ? | 19:45 |
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| lardman | apparently not | 19:56 |
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| lardman | as in it's not possible | 19:56 |
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| solstag | hello! | 20:15 |
| solstag | I'm trying meego for the 1st time... only one issue so far | 20:15 |
| solstag | chromium won't start, on the terminal it gives a "bus error" | 20:15 |
| solstag | anybody seen this? | 20:15 |
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| dm8tbr | why are you trying to start chromium from the terminal? | 20:16 |
| solstag | I wasn't, but it wouldn't start so I tried to see if it gave any hints as to why | 20:16 |
| andre__ | to get error output? | 20:16 |
| chouchoune | lol dm8tbr, why not ? ;) | 20:17 |
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| dm8tbr | chouchoune: I was trying to understand what he's trying to do and why | 20:17 |
| dm8tbr | and apparently the real problem is that chromium won't start | 20:17 |
| solstag | hehe | 20:17 |
| chouchoune | ;) | 20:17 |
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| dm8tbr | also when doing such things from the terminal you have to remember to check if DISPLAY is set etc | 20:18 |
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| chouchoune | but the issue from DISPLQY wouldn't be that one but omething like "Cannot open display:" | 20:19 |
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| chouchoune | s/DISPLQY/DISPLAY/ | 20:19 |
| infobot | chouchoune meant: but the issue from DISPLAY wouldn't be that one but omething like "Cannot open display:" | 20:19 |
| chouchoune | haha, nice bot ;) | 20:19 |
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| dm8tbr | I've seen X11 software fail in interesting ways and not saying 'can't open display' | 20:19 |
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| solstag | well, not meaning to interrupt this curious deviation, but has anyone seen this "bus error" thing, or have any idea why? | 20:20 |
| dm8tbr | solstag: what sort of CPU? | 20:20 |
| solstag | Atom n450 | 20:20 |
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| solstag | it's an acer aspire one, with 1gb RAM | 20:20 |
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| dm8tbr | mhm, missing ssse3 would have been another option, but that is certainly there... | 20:21 |
| solstag | also, I am running from the pen drive | 20:21 |
| solstag | that might be related | 20:21 |
| chouchoune | solstag: can you check chromium -h ? | 20:21 |
| chouchoune | to see if there is an option to launch it without some kind of synchronization ? | 20:21 |
| solstag | sure... as soon as I find out what the default password for the pen-drive boot is... | 20:22 |
| solstag | it locked on screensaver mode | 20:22 |
| dm8tbr | meego/meego ? | 20:22 |
| solstag | ok, "meego" did it | 20:22 |
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| solstag | chouchoune: there's no chromium, only chromium-browser and chromium-browser-ext.sh | 20:23 |
| solstag | trying the first one | 20:23 |
| chouchoune | yes | 20:24 |
| solstag | no synch option, just help and debug | 20:24 |
| chouchoune | debug one ? | 20:24 |
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| chouchoune | to have more traces maybe ? | 20:24 |
| solstag | debug calls gdb | 20:24 |
| solstag | no traces, gdb complains that some library is missing | 20:25 |
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| blindfish_ | does anyone know something about n9 / n950? afair it was going to be announced at the end of mai, which is ... now | 20:25 |
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| berndhs | well, there's 3 days left to announce the announcement | 20:26 |
| solstag | chouchoune: "gdb: Unable to find libthread_db matching inferior's thread library, thread debugging will not be available." | 20:26 |
| chouchoune | and no-one said it's in May ;) | 20:26 |
| solstag | chouchoune: that was a "warning:" displayed several times. | 20:27 |
| solstag | chouchoune: and then finally "gdb: Program received signal SIGBUS, Bus error." | 20:27 |
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| chouchoune | ok | 20:27 |
| chouchoune | no idea sorry | 20:27 |
| chouchoune | maybe someone else ;) | 20:28 |
| solstag | yeah... : P | 20:28 |
| solstag | weird thing | 20:28 |
| chouchoune | I'm ebven not using meego netbook version | 20:28 |
| berndhs | the warnings are just gdb telling you that it can't tell you anything | 20:28 |
| solstag | chouchoune: thanks anyway :) | 20:28 |
| chouchoune | yes | 20:28 |
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| solstag | chouchoune: why did you ask about a sync option? maybe I can create a config file telling it not to sync? | 20:32 |
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| delac | oh nice, NOW I noticed that 64bit systems are not supported by the SDK... | 20:35 |
| delac | so, was there anyone who had installed Meego alongside another distro? | 20:36 |
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| lardman | yeah, I've installed it on my 64bit system | 20:37 |
| lardman | the SDK this is | 20:37 |
| chouchoune | solstag: no idea, just had an issue like this with another software which was trying to synchronize unsuccessfully once ;) | 20:38 |
| chouchoune | delac: I know someone which installed it on (k)ubuntu 11.04 64 bits | 20:38 |
| delac | lardman: you have? The wiki pages tout that it is only for 32 bit systems | 20:38 |
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| delac | chouchoune: oh? 11.04 shouldnt be supported either | 20:39 |
| chouchoune | delac: on developer.meego.com it's written that it's not tested | 20:39 |
| lardman | Linux simon-desktop 2.6.35-24-generic #42-Ubuntu SMP Thu Dec 2 02:41:37 UTC 2010 x86_64 GNU/Linux | 20:39 |
| delac | lardman: how well does the SDK work? | 20:39 |
| chouchoune | delac: I agree, but not supported doesn't mean that it won't work | 20:40 |
| chouchoune | just that it's your problem if it soesn't work ;) | 20:40 |
| chouchoune | I have the issue with fedora 15 on my side | 20:40 |
| * lardman wonders if this is some later SDK than the one he installed | 20:41 | |
| lardman | tbh I tried it when I installed it, then went back to Maemo dev (which also doesn't support 64bit fwiw) due to lack of working hw at the time | 20:41 |
| delac | lardman: ah. dont remember the version? | 20:42 |
| lardman | no, was from tail end of last year though | 20:43 |
| lardman | but as chouchoune says, it may not be officially supported (Ubuntu in general wasn't at the time) but can probably still be made to work | 20:44 |
| delac | lardman: did you manage to build any working apps? | 20:44 |
| lardman | the compiler worked, but I didn't try building anything | 20:45 |
| lardman | but I don't see that there would be any problem | 20:45 |
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| alterego | lcuk: To close the window? :) | 20:49 |
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| lcuk | alterego, I know | 20:58 |
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| lcuk | I did not know that it had to be added by you though | 20:58 |
| alterego | Oh yeah | 21:00 |
| alterego | Well, it doesn't _have_to be | 21:00 |
| alterego | When I originally implemented the UX, it was a pure QML clone of the MTF based dialer UX | 21:00 |
| alterego | So I had to implement that stuff, because the Qt windows didn't render window decorations. | 21:00 |
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| smhar | I lost my N900 -very sadly- and I tried another -temporary- phone which only made me miss my N900 more. My question is, is there a new maemo or meego mobile in the horizon soon, or should I just get another N900? | 21:04 |
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| delac | is it possible to prevent Meego from installing bootloader? For installing it alongside another distro. | 21:12 |
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| lcuk | smhar, if you have a need for *something* today, buy based on the market today | 21:14 |
| lcuk | that has been the same advice for anything ever known to man | 21:14 |
| lcuk | by tomorrow we might not be using mobiles at all, let alone alternative models | 21:14 |
| lcuk | so if you need one now, get one now :) | 21:15 |
| berndhs | i confidently predict tehre will be no new maemo phone this quarter :) | 21:17 |
| pixelgeek | Computex is next week - see what gets announced there? | 21:17 |
| smhar | lcuk, thanks for the eternal advice :-) although for me, at least now, it is more of a convenience and a satisfaction rather than a pressing need | 21:18 |
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| berndhs | pixelgeek: indeed worth waiting 1 week | 21:18 |
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| sofar | good lord, the trolls were out again last night? | 21:50 |
| sofar | delac: yes, netbook installer in 1.2 has an option to skip bootloader setup | 21:50 |
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| TSCHAKeee | berndhs: the RM-680 passed FCC testing | 22:14 |
| TSCHAKeee | berndhs: it will happen. | 22:14 |
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| TSCHAKeee | berndhs: so shut your mouth. | 22:14 |
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| * CosmoHill blinks | 22:16 | |
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| Jaffa | thp: Should've fixed the spam detection | 22:26 |
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| thp | Jaffa: nice :) thx | 22:28 |
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| lcuk | an android, iphone and meegon walk into a bar.. | 22:50 |
| berndhs | i want some of these http://www.computextaipei.com.tw/en_US/product/info.html?id=7C439ACDB9009ED561741E97934FA9EE | 22:57 |
| berndhs | to break the desktop/tablet barrier | 22:57 |
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| delac | sofar: it has? nice. is it obivious or do I have to hack something? | 23:01 |
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| CosmoHill | delac: I'd imagine it's a tick box | 23:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer | smhar: get a N900 as long as there are some around still | 23:23 |
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| DocScrutinizer | smhar: even if you get a 'new meego device' tomorrow, you'll miss the N900 | 23:24 |
| * CosmoHill wonder's how his laptop battery compartment has become deformed | 23:24 | |
| berndhs | elephant sat on the device ? | 23:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | that happened when it decided NOT to burn down your appartment | 23:25 |
| smhar | DocScrutinizer, problem is, it is not available anymore here. I will need to get one online from somewhere. I will probably try to find a good used one from ebay :-/ | 23:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | N900 recently started to show up in second hand stores here | 23:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~250EUR | 23:27 |
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| delac | How do I prevent the bootloader from installing over my grub? In the last image http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/meego/install/ , should I untick all, delete them or just mark the one that has grub? | 23:30 |
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| gabrbedd | psycho_oreos: pong! | 23:34 |
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| situ_ | Anyone tried WeTab OS here ? | 23:53 |
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