IRC log of #meego for Friday, 2011-05-06

MrTroll	anybody?	00:00
MrTroll	is it a candy?	00:01
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MrTroll	Richrd: Hi	00:02
lbt	idiot	00:02
lbt	it's a fish	00:02
MrTroll	really?	00:02
j^	its a bird... its a plane...	00:02
MrTroll	salt water or fresh?	00:02
lbt	it's a goddam fish	00:02
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MrTroll	shell fish?	00:02
lbt	some people	00:02
MrTroll	it's people?	00:02
lbt	just have to twist things around	00:02
lbt	f.i.s.h.	00:02
MrTroll	Meego is a f.i.s.h. ?	00:03
lbt	yes	00:03
lbt	clearly	00:03
MrTroll	what kind?	00:03
gabrbedd	trollfish	00:03
lbt	waddaya mean ? what kind?	00:03
lbt	a fish.	00:03
MrTroll	a shell fish ?	00:03
MrTroll	maybe a fresh water fish?	00:03
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lbt	repetition... bored now	00:03
MrTroll	what kind of fucking fish	00:03
MrTroll	ok	00:04
MrTroll	look	00:04
lbt	repetition + swearing... really bored now	00:04
gabrbedd	so, are you like a freshman troll or something?	00:04
gabrbedd	My toddler can troll better than this.	00:04
MrTroll	huh	00:04
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MrTroll	i am confused now	00:04
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MrTroll	do you guys use the web ?	00:04
MrTroll	the world wide web	00:05
MrTroll	?	00:05
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MrTroll	hello	00:06
MrTroll	thiago_home: hi	00:06
thiago_home	hello	00:06
MrTroll	what is Meego?	00:06
alterego	What isn't it	00:07
MrTroll	thiago_home: what the fuc is meego	00:07
alterego	http://www.meego.com/	00:07
MrTroll	wow	00:07
MrTroll	nice domain name	00:07
j^	Meego is an American science fiction sitcom that aired on CBS in 1997. The series starred Bronson Pinchot in the title role. Meego was canceled halfway through its first season.	00:07
MrTroll	but somebody tell me already	00:07
alterego	Heh	00:07
MrTroll	j^, you are dumb	00:08
MrTroll	obviously this channel is not about some sitcom	00:08
alterego	Of course it is	00:08
MrTroll	bullshit	00:08
MrTroll	don't mess with me, I am not in the mood	00:08
alterego	Oh, you poor baby	00:08
alterego	Maybe you should have a nap	00:08
MrTroll	ok, this is weak	00:08
MrTroll	I prefer to troll in #web	00:08
berndhs	if you never watched the show, you wont understand	00:09
alterego	See ya	00:09
MrTroll	those guys get real bent out of shape	00:09
MrTroll	u know what i mean?	00:09
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o lbt		00:09
MrTroll	do you know what i'm saying	00:09
MrTroll	?	00:09
alterego	I think you're bent	00:09
DawnFoster	lbt: ping	00:09
lbt	:)	00:09
alterego	(out of shape)	00:09
*** MrTroll was kicked by lbt (User terminated!)		00:09
DawnFoster	lbt: you started feeding, you get to deal with it :)	00:09
alterego	:)	00:09
* alterego chuckles		00:09
alterego	A troll comes into #meego, I receive one spam mail	00:10
alterego	cooincidence?!	00:10
*** lbt sets mode: -o lbt		00:10
* thiago_home is a Troll		00:10
lbt	slash-kick thiago_home	00:11
* lbt is overwhelmed with power		00:11
alterego	Heh	00:14
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alterego	Does the agenda thing work?	00:15
alterego	That was probably quite vague	00:15
alterego	The "Add to agenda" for SF sessions	00:16
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alterego	As soon as I go back to the page it seems to have reset all my choices.	00:16
lbt	mm ?	00:16
alterego	Oh, started working again, strange: http://sf2011.meego.com/program/session-schedule	00:17
lbt	OK resubmited - watch	00:17
lbt	oop - wrong chan	00:17
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alterego	I wonder if vlc on the N900 can stream to youtube.	00:30
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reed	hello all	00:57
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mikhas	someone with a fresh tablet UX installation here? what's the output of gconftool-2 -R /meegotouch/theme please?	02:00
mikhas	IE, is the default theme on tablet UX base or meego?	02:00
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reed	mikhas, give me a sec to boot and I'll let you know	02:11
reed	base	02:12
reed	I installed the latest weekly build last night and now I'm not sure how to keep all software updated... is zypper the best tool?	02:14
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mikhas	reed, thanks	02:20
mikhas	reported https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17159	02:20
MeeGoBot	Bug 17159 nor, Undecided, ---, prajwal.karur.mohan, NEW, Theme for MeeGo Touch applications needs to be meego, not base	02:20
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reed	email client doesn't load :(	02:29
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gabrbedd	reed: Yes. IMHO, subscribe to meego-releases@	02:39
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gabrbedd	reed: Every day, add the daily repos and do `zypper dup`	02:39
gabrbedd	I wrote a script to automate the daily repo add... but I haven't updated it for the latest change in URL's.	02:39
reed	gabrbedd, do I need to change the baseurl in the .repo file?	02:40
reed	ok, that's what I thought...	02:40
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gabrbedd	No... you don't alter your repos... you add the new ones on top.	02:40
gabrbedd	Other people track the `latest` repos...	02:40
gabrbedd	But then it's harder to back out of a failed update.	02:41
reed	uhm	02:41
reed	not sure what you mean	02:41
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reed	gabrbedd, is there a wiki page that describes the update process?	02:42
Leftmost	Would anyone be able to give me a quick rundown of the state of accessibility on Meego?	02:43
gabrbedd	reed: IDK, I just do it.	02:43
reed	Leftmost, define:accessibility	02:44
gabrbedd	reed: With the script I use... it's something like...	02:44
Leftmost	Assistive technologies. Specifically I'm interested in the practicality of a MeeGo phone for a blind user.	02:45
gabrbedd	reed: $ sudo ./meego-add-repos --dmc 1.1.99.5.20110505.8	02:45
reed	Leftmost, I have no idea, sorry	02:45
gabrbedd	reed: $ sudo zypper refresh	02:45
gabrbedd	reed: sudo zypper dup	02:45
reed	ok, got it...	02:45
reed	I'm on meego 1.2	02:45
gabrbedd	reed: There is no meego 1.2, yet.	02:46
reed	gabrbedd, yeah, there is :) it's highly unstable	02:46
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gabrbedd	Leftmost: If you don't get an answer now, you'll probably get better answers during Europe's business hours.	02:46
reed	http://download.meego.com/snapshots/1.2.80.0.20110505.89/	02:47
Leftmost	Okay, thanks.	02:47
gabrbedd	reed: No, there is no 1.2. That's the dev branch for what will be 1.3	02:47
gabrbedd	But it's not 1.2	02:47
reed	ok, terminology difference	02:47
Leftmost	Looks like I may be able to catch the guy giving a talk on a11y in here then, so I'll give that a shot. Cheers.	02:48
reed	bye	02:48
akk	Stable releases in MeeGo are odd numbers, not even?	02:48
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gabrbedd	akk: No. Stable releases are 1.0, 1.1, 1.2, etc.	02:49
gabrbedd	akk: But if the "patch" level is >= 80... that's develepment on "the next" stable release.	02:50
gabrbedd	So right now we have 1.1.99.etc and 1.2.80.etc -- but there is no 1.2	02:50
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reed	makes no sense ... 1.1.99 would mean that there is no 1.1 either? bha... whatever :)	02:54
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gabrbedd	Having 1.1.99 does not mean that there is a 1.1.	02:57
gabrbedd	But there is one.	02:57
reed	I get it... all I'm saying is that it's a confusing logic for newcomers ;)	02:59
reed	no need to discuss it further	02:59
reed	does anybody know the expected release date for 1.3?	02:59
reed	or 1.2 stable, whatever comes first	02:59
gabrbedd	There is a wiki for that... just a sec...	03:01
gabrbedd	http://wiki.meego.com/Release_Engineering/Plans/1.2	03:03
gabrbedd	And 1.3 doesn't exist yet	03:03
gabrbedd	But the process is here...	03:04
gabrbedd	http://wiki.meego.com/Release_Engineering/Release_Timeline	03:04
gabrbedd	So add 6 mos. to all the dates on 1.2. :-p	03:04
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gabrbedd	reed: I just updated the script for the new URL's: http://gabe.is-a-geek.org/tmp/meego/meego-addrepos	03:15
gabrbedd	However... it doesn't work for the 1.3 branch... it's still tracking 1.2 URL's.	03:15
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gabrbedd	King's X... it works for the 1.3 URLs.	03:20
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reed	thanks gabrbedd	03:25
reed	does 1.1 work on exopc tablet?	03:26
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reed	i'm really confused now :/ 1.1.99.6 is MeeGo 1.2 Final release candidate ?	03:54
reed	if so, what's 1.2.80.x?	03:54
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sraue	reed, maybe a 1.3 development release (alpha, pre-alpha...)	03:58
reed	seems Intel is working on two fronts	03:59
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reed	1.2 is not out yet and they're also distributing 1.3	03:59
sraue	thats normal in development to work together with the next release on the next-next and next-next-next release	03:59
gabrbedd	There is no 1.2. There is no 1.3. If you want a stable release your choices are 1.0 and 1.1	04:00
gabrbedd	On 5/19 it's scheduled to release 1.2	04:01
reed	gabrbedd, that's clear :) thanks	04:01
gabrbedd	The versions 1.1.99.x are the RC's for 1.2	04:01
gabrbedd	However, last week... they BRANCHED development of 1.2 and 1.3	04:01
gabrbedd	Thus, 1.1.99.x is frozen (no new features)	04:01
reed	I'm playing with the exopc that came with a pre-release of something and I'm trying to find a way to use it for something	04:01
gabrbedd	While 1.2.80 is the stuff where they're moving ahead with plans for 1.3	04:02
gabrbedd	reed: If you want to do anything useful, stick with 1.1.99.x	04:02
reed	i should probably try the 1.1.99	04:02
gabrbedd	ATM, I don't even think 1.2.80 will boot.	04:02
reed	it boots and works decently but it has many bugs	04:03
berndhs	it boots, but...	04:03
gabrbedd	reed: If it works, then there's probably something wrong. :-p	04:03
reed	1.1.99 still has the 'zones' right?	04:03
gabrbedd	I'm sure someone's working on breaking it.	04:03
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reed	or is it using the new qml ui?	04:03
gabrbedd	"zones" ?	04:03
gabrbedd	You meet netbook?	04:04
reed	not sure... let me stop chatting and look at the product :)	04:04
gabrbedd	I think 'zones' is a netbook concept.	04:06
gabrbedd	If you want to use the new QML thing, that's called the "Meego UX" or the "Tablet UX"	04:06
gabrbedd	Latest weekly tablet build is here: http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/1.1.99/1.1.99.5.20110503.6/images/meego-tablet-ia32-pinetrail/	04:07
gabrbedd	(if that's what you want)	04:07
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reed	gabrbedd, I think that's what I want :)	04:12
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dm8tbr	mood groaning	07:26
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gabrbedd	dm8tbr: .o/	07:38
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dm8tbr	lo gabrbedd	07:53
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iekku	morning	08:13
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npm`	DOH!: "the decision has been made by PM that we can't upgrade to latest version and can only have 0.69.x release at 1.2" ( https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13780#c17 )	09:04
MeeGoBot	Bug 13780 nor, Medium, 1.1.90.4, martin.xu, ASSI, Wired connection stops working when transferring lots of data	09:04
Stskeeps	npm`: we're freezing the image on wednesday	09:04
Stskeeps	i don't really blame them	09:05
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npm`	it's a matter of more bugs <connman 0.69 -- known mem corruptions), vs less (connman 0.73 fixes a lot).	09:06
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Stskeeps	there's update releases	09:07
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npm`	why release something w/ known coredumps tho? esp. when a more fixed connman is available here http://download.meego.com/live/devel:/connectivity:/latest/Trunk	09:14
Stskeeps	npm`: as they say, they can't reproduce it	09:14
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Stskeeps	out of morbid curiousity, what processor are you rnning on?	09:14
Stskeeps	(also, last release they upgraded connman or ofono and hell broke loose, i think)	09:14
npm`	atom n455, standard meego lenovo s10-3t	09:14
npm`	but that one is fixed by new kernel actually	09:15
npm`	Linux meegolem 2.6.38.2-8.6-adaptation-pinetrail #1 SMP PREEMPT Fri Apr 29 10:36:11 UTC 2011	09:16
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npm`	well i saw reports here of people having connectivity problems w/ same versions on n900 as well	09:17
npm`	and it hasn't been tested on all networks. for example, try it on a hotel network or a passworded cafe wifi	09:17
npm`	and there's a whole series of bugs that got set as 1.2 blocker. related to connman that haven't been unblocked yet	09:18
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npm`	e.g., https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15552	09:25
MeeGoBot	Bug 15552 maj, High, ---, martin.xu, ASSI, [Upstream v-0.71 has fixed the issue]network fail to connect to internet with static IP for the seco	09:25
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npm`	https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13780	09:27
MeeGoBot	Bug 13780 nor, Medium, 1.1.90.4, martin.xu, ASSI, Wired connection stops working when transferring lots of data	09:27
npm`	oops just went around in a circle on 13780	09:28
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* npm` thanks prajwal.mohan for trying....		09:31
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npm`	my custom meegolemized trunk meego 1.2 netbook is pretty awesome (just installed xournal from fedora and it works perfect w/ touchscreen).... im just not sure about the actual release working w/ connman 0.69 and the old .37 kernel	09:36
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Meegowned	Hi meego people. Could you please advise how to check which particular commit in gitorious project was intergrated in official meego release?	10:09
Stskeeps	Meegowned: usually you can tell by the tags in the gitorious project	10:10
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Meegowned	and sorry for newb question, release rpms with source code were generated from gitorious repos, right?	10:17
Stskeeps	they're generated from releases of those gitorious repos	10:18
Stskeeps	like 1.2	10:18
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thiago_home	gitorious -> source release (tarball) -> rpm packages	10:19
Meegowned	thank you	10:20
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bkalinga	hi All, is there any way we can link gitorious with OBS	11:41
bkalinga	That is lets I want to add package in my Project in OBS.. can I point to a link in gitorious so that it will pick the package from there itself	11:41
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bkalinga	consider I want to take 'meegotouch-inputmethodkeyboard' package from meego1.2 branch and add this package in my Home project	11:47
bkalinga	http://meego.gitorious.org/meegotouch/meegotouch-inputmethodkeyboard/commits/meego-1.2 is the link for the package. but i am not able to figure out how to do it	11:48
bkalinga	anyone has any idea about it	11:48
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lcuk	bkalinga, the inputmethods are already in obs	11:49
bkalinga	how do i see that in OBS	11:49
bkalinga	link please	11:50
lcuk	a moment	11:50
lcuk	http://wiki.meego.com/Maliit/Development#Meego_packaging indicates the maliit package statuses within obs	11:52
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bkalinga	is there any way people compile their git code on OBS?	11:54
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bkalinga	lcuk: thanks for pointing me ...i could see 'meegotouch-inputmethodkeyboard' is part of 'MeeGo:1.2:oss' project	11:59
bkalinga	now i want to take a copy of this package into my home Project	11:59
bkalinga	how do i do it?	11:59
lcuk	bkalinga, I do not know, one of the other 455 people in the channel hopefully will	12:00
bkalinga	sure..	12:00
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timoph	osc copypac	12:04
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lcuk	did I read correctly there is no new images today?	12:04
lcuk	http://repository.maemo.org/meego/n900-de/daily/1.1.99.5.20110504.4.DE.2011-05-06.1/images/mg-handset-armv7nhl-n900-de-acceptance/ has none at least	12:05
bkalinga	timoph: is there any way using the web interface	12:05
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timoph	hmmh.	12:05
bkalinga	please point me there	12:05
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timoph	you can branch it from actions	12:07
bkalinga	currently I am inside my 'Build Service> Projects> home:kalinga> Packages '	12:07
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bkalinga	Shall I select Add a new package?	12:08
lbt	and "Create new package based on existing package " doesn't appear?	12:08
timoph	goto the package's page and select "Branch Package" from the action menu.	12:08
timoph	it creates a new brach to your home project	12:08
lbt	timoph's way is easy too	12:08
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timoph	both ways should work	12:09
bkalinga	but i dont see that 'Action' menu in my Package page	12:09
lbt	are you logged in	12:09
timoph	not yours. goto the packages page you want to branch	12:09
bkalinga	ok got it	12:10
bkalinga	thank timoph a lot	12:10
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timoph	np	12:10
bkalinga	also i have one more uncleared...is there any way people compile their git code on OBS	12:11
bkalinga	* one more doubt uncleared	12:11
lcuk	hurrah bug 7074 seems to be fixed	12:12
MeeGoBot	Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=7074 nor, High, ---, shane.bryan, VERI FIXED, Incoming call can not be answered if dialer not open when call is received.	12:12
lbt	bkalinga: we're working on that	12:13
lbt	when do you want it compiles?	12:13
lbt	every single commit?	12:14
lbt	or every tag?	12:14
lbt	on each branch?	12:14
lbt	or just master?	12:14
timoph	lbt: you're doing somekind of post commit hook?	12:14
bkalinga	ok...actually i was thinking that should possible	12:14
lbt	how do I put a post commit on the server?	12:14
bkalinga	i am not going to compile now	12:14
lbt	or do I rely on users having a local one?	12:14
lbt	so there are a lot of interesting problems there	12:14
Jaffa	Morning, all	12:14
timoph	o/	12:14
Jaffa	alterego: pong	12:15
lbt	timoph: indeed - but ....	12:15
lbt	Jaffa: hey	12:15
merlin1991	lbt on tag sounds reasonable	12:15
timoph	I've been just using a simple shell script that I trigger manually to update the tar ball in obs	12:15
lbt	merlin1991: any tag or a regexp match? (which I prefer)	12:16
lbt	timoph: yep ... that's "easy" ... and I like it	12:16
lbt	but for some reason people want an all-singing approach	12:16
timoph	:)	12:16
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lbt	and I don't think they think it through	12:16
lbt	actually github provides commit notifications	12:17
lbt	gitorious doesn't	12:17
alterego	Jaffa: doesn't matter anymore, though I might talk to you soon about meeting up at the airport? we can share cab fare ;)	12:17
lbt	so I want a BOSS process which runs a per-git-repo check to decide what rules to use	12:17
lcuk	which n900-de image are people using today?	12:18
lbt	so bkalinga the answer is "coming soon" :)	12:18
lbt	nb ... I personally run a "send-to-OBS.sh" script	12:19
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timoph	lcuk: the latest?	12:19
lcuk	timoph, I tried that, the image is not there for	12:19
lcuk	http://repository.maemo.org/meego/n900-de/daily/1.1.99.5.20110504.4.DE.2011-05-06.1/images/mg-handset-armv7nhl-n900-de-acceptance/	12:20
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lcuk	and no log to indicate why	12:20
lcuk	or rather I cannot work out from the log	12:21
timoph	hmmh	12:21
timoph	sanity image is there	12:22
timoph	acceptance seems to be missing	12:22
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mikhas	hmph, gruml	12:24
mikhas	we still dont use self-compositing for the VKB in meego-handset?	12:24
lcuk	I thought that was sorted mikhas?	12:25
mikhas	nope	12:25
mikhas	just checked here	12:25
mikhas	VKB should run with -software and -use-self-composition to save GLES resources for other apps	12:26
bkalinga	timoph/lbt: I think I wont be able to copy/branch 'meegotouch-inputmethodkeyboard' from 'MeeGo:1.2:oss' beacuse i have access to build.pub.meego and the project is on build.meego :(	12:26
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mikhas	of course you get an annoying flickering when focusing in on text entry, but at least it's more responsive ...	12:26
lbt	bkalinga: I think you can	12:27
bkalinga	it is asking for log in credential when i open that page	12:27
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bkalinga	and when i try to create it from pub domain it says MeeGo:1.2:oss no such project	12:28
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lcuk	timoph, do you know what the usual package differences between them are?	12:28
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lcuk	mikhas, is the flickering something that can have a bug filed against it and worked on?	12:29
mikhas	I dont really care about the flickering, I know that it would need fixes in the window manager	12:29
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mikhas	I care about a slow device ...	12:29
lbt	bkalinga: https://build.pub.meego.com/package/files?package=meegotouch-inputmethodkeyboard&project=home%3Albt%3Adst	12:29
lbt	see :)	12:30
bkalinga	New Package Branch in Project home:kalinga Name of original project: MeeGo:1.2:oss Name of package in original project:meegotouch-inputmethodkeyboard then selected Create branch	12:30
lcuk	mikhas, sure thing	12:30
bkalinga	it shows Unable to find package 'meegotouch-inputmethodkeyboard' in project 'MeeGo:1.2:oss'.	12:30
bkalinga	OBS Web Interface Error: Target not found	12:30
lcuk	so make the tweak to maliit stuff to ensure and file a bug against the flickering once it is there?	12:30
lbt	bkalinga: yeah ... timoph's approach can't push from one OBS to another	12:30
lbt	you can only pull	12:30
bkalinga	ok i am looking at your link	12:30
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lbt	on pub you use : MeeGo.com:MeeGo:1.2:oss	12:30
lbt	as the source	12:30
lbt	the autocomplete is a pain though	12:31
lbt	bkalinga: no... don't do that	12:32
lbt	you just branched my branch	12:32
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bkalinga	i selected branch package and is created a new branch	12:32
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lbt	from ?	12:32
bkalinga	but not showing that in my project	12:32
bkalinga	from your your package list	12:32
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lbt	mmm how hard can this be?	12:32
lbt	go to your home	12:32
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lbt	go to packages	12:33
naquad	how do i modify auto partitioning layout?	12:33
lbt	click "Create new package based on existing package "	12:33
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lbt	Name of original project: MeeGo.com:MeeGo:1.2:oss	12:33
lbt	Name of package in original project: meegotouch-inputmethodkeyboard	12:33
lbt	click create branch	12:34
lbt	tada	12:34
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bkalinga	lbt: i did that any got the error Unable to find package 'meegotouch-inputmethodkeyboard' in project 'MeeGo:1.2:oss'.	12:34
lbt	did you read what I typed ?	12:35
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bkalinga	sorry lbt: this time it worked after prepend with 'MeeGo.com:'	12:36
mikhas	what about the wrong icon offset for the home screen? they all seem to be some 20px too far south	12:36
lbt	:)	12:36
lbt	so you have done an inter-OBS link	12:36
lbt	there may be issues with it - it's a new feature	12:37
bkalinga	but i created a branch out of your package what about that...	12:37
lbt	I cleaned up :)	12:37
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bkalinga	where it ceated?	12:37
Myrtti	I feel like I've achieved something, filed in the roommate preference	12:37
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lbt	https://build.pub.meego.com/package/files?package=meegotouch-inputmethodkeyboard&project=home%3Akalinga	12:38
bkalinga	yeah this is fine	12:38
bkalinga	i am able to see this..	12:38
bkalinga	but due to my mistake	12:38
lbt	I am not sure you can submit back - ask Stskeeps ?	12:38
Stskeeps	submit across OBS link? no	12:39
lbt	ta	12:39
lbt	hmm bossbot	12:39
bkalinga	it created something..so where it got created?	12:39
lcuk	downloads are slow today	12:39
bkalinga	i wonder how can i create something in your area	12:39
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bkalinga	which u can clean	12:39
lbt	bkalinga: I can clean it because I'm admin	12:40
lbt	the one you made is at https://build.pub.meego.com/package/files?package=meegotouch-inputmethodkeyboard&project=home%3Akalinga	12:40
bkalinga	ohh...so i must have ceated in my area which you cleaned up...:)	12:40
lbt	correct .... you created a second-level branch which is just messy	12:41
bkalinga	rihgt that name was including your brnach name 2nd level... thanks lbt for your help..actually new to this OBS	12:41
bkalinga	so asking silly things	12:42
lbt	np...	12:42
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naquad	how do i modify auto partitioning layout?	12:51
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lardman	morning	12:53
lcuk	hey lardman :)	12:53
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Jaffa	alterego: Was thinking of trying to get a BART 7 day pass or something	12:54
lardman	hi lcuk	12:55
alterego	What's that? :)	12:55
alterego	Jaffa: ^	12:55
mikhas	lcuk, https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17198	12:55
MeeGoBot	Bug 17198 nor, Undecided, ---, x2rich, NEW, Virtual keyboard should use its self-compositing feature and probably run in software mode, too	12:55
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lcuk	alterego, transport system	12:56
lardman	just reading the Harmattan stuff on the ml, who is Cosimo Kroll?	12:56
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mikhas	lardman, which ml?	12:57
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mikhas	link?	12:57
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lardman	maemo-community	12:57
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Jaffa	alterego: Bay Area Rapid Transit (IIRC). It's a tram/metro thingy	13:02
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Jaffa	alterego: Useful for getting around SF, and also links to the airport	13:02
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alterego	Neat	13:03
alterego	Fancy letting me know how you get on with that?	13:03
alterego	I'd probably be interested in getting one aswell.	13:03
Venemo_N900	good morning MeeGoists	13:03
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alterego	Aloha Venemo_N900	13:03
Jaffa	alterego: Yeah, it's on my Google TODOlist	13:03
alterego	:)	13:04
mikhas	Jaffa, good replies on that maemo-community ML thread	13:04
Venemo_N900	hey alterego :)	13:04
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Jaffa	mikhas: Thanks :)	13:04
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mikhas	and some food for thought, too	13:04
Jaffa	w00t_ is right, the mess is a given.	13:04
lcuk	lardman, how is holly doing? tracy is like a beachball!	13:04
w00t_	:)	13:04
* Jaffa suspects some hybrid of Forum Nokia, TMO, meego-* and FMC :-/		13:05
Venemo_N900	"beachball"?	13:05
Venemo_N900	srsly?	13:05
Jaffa	Which is at least 3 web fora more than I regularly read at the moment.	13:05
lcuk	Venemo_N900, yes very pregnant	13:06
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lardman	lcuk: she's fine, not too big, but certainly getting ther	13:06
lardman	e	13:06
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alterego	lcuk: do you tell your wife that "You're like a beachball!" :D	13:06
lardman	Jaffa: yes, I'm off web forums unless they are only for technical stuff	13:06
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Venemo_N900	lcuk: ah, then beachball is a good thing then :)	13:07
Venemo_N900	lcuk: congrats to you :)	13:07
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lcuk	:D	13:09
Venemo_N900	lcuk: is it going to be a girl or a boy?	13:10
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lcuk	a boy, though the size of here we are wondering whether there are more in there! :P	13:11
Venemo_N900	lcuk: twins? :)	13:12
lcuk	no, we know there is only one in there	13:12
lcuk	err hope	13:13
lcuk	there is no room in the house for this one, let alone another	13:13
lardman	ebay?	13:14
Venemo_N900	lol...	13:14
lardman	though we have the same problem, looking for somewhere bigger now	13:14
lcuk	lardman, I haven't looked on there for a new house, perhaps we should.	13:14
lardman	there is an alternative, with a shipping fee.. ;)	13:15
lardman	Probably a collect in person sort of thing though	13:15
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lardman	I'd better stop now, otherwise if I ever meet Mrs lcuk she'll kill me for suggesting it :)	13:16
Venemo_N900	:D	13:16
lardman	Mrs lardman will probably kill me for suggesting it anyway, must keep her away from the computer for a few days	13:17
lcuk	yes, better to just find a way to get a bigger house.	13:17
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lcuk	lardman, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IqwnU_PwFQ o_O	13:27
lardman	oh dear	13:28
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lcuk	lardman, show it to Holly :D	13:28
lardman	well we've only got one on the way, a girl	13:28
lardman	that's just cruel, or do you reckon she'll then feel better about her situation? :)	13:29
lcuk	shall have to bring them to conferences :D	13:29
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lcuk	DawnFoster, ping, would a creche at conferences be something feasible grin	13:29
lardman	lcuk: well I'll try to make whatever get together is organised for the Autumn, mainly as I will be taking my holiday then to help with the newborn	13:30
lardman	not sure Holly will be too keen though, unless she can go in my place :)	13:30
lcuk	heh yeah	13:30
lcuk	a friends wedding is taking place just a few days after tracys due date	13:30
lardman	ah, so you can escape! :)	13:31
lardman	:D	13:31
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lcuk	lardman, we already said shall miss that one.	13:36
* lcuk looking forward to baby :)		13:36
lardman	Same here, just lots of work/housing stuff to get sorted before I can think about it	13:37
alterego	too many irc channels :/.	13:37
* lcuk is waiting for dd to finish		13:38
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lcuk	alterego, yes	13:39
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Myrtti	I hate arranging flights	13:49
Myrtti	I HATE arranging flights	13:49
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alterego	Myrtti: Aww :(	13:56
alterego	Get someone else to do it for you? :P	13:56
Myrtti	I am. It only dampens the feeling, as I am still watching him do it	13:57
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alterego	Hah	13:58
alterego	Make a coffee :P	13:58
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lcuk	if n900 is cough overclocked, does it also change the writing speed of the memorycard too?	14:04
lcuk	I recall in desktop days that it would change the databus speed	14:04
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* lcuk has dd at 714kB/s		14:08
adeus	probably not	14:10
alterego	is that on device?	14:10
alterego	Or via usb storage mode?	14:10
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lcuk	alterego, usb storage mode	14:11
lcuk	but it seems to take just as long	14:11
lcuk	I think it is the kind of card	14:12
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alterego	Yeah, that's pretty awful speeds, what class sd?	14:13
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alterego	I get about 7MB/S	14:13
Stskeeps	lcuk: why don't you write on desktop instead?	14:13
lcuk	dunno	14:13
lcuk	Stskeeps, I don't have a dongle thingy	14:14
* alterego lost his microsd -> sd adapter :(		14:14
Stskeeps	get one, bloody chep :P	14:14
alterego	I had two, can't find either	14:14
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w00t_	I have three now	14:15
w00t_	I finally found the one I lost months ago	14:15
Venemo_N900	three what?	14:15
w00t_	SD adapters	14:15
Venemo_N900	heh.	14:15
alterego	I had 2x micro to sd, and 1x micro to mini (and a mini to sd)	14:16
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alterego	the micro to mini broke :(	14:16
alterego	and i've lost the to micro to sd adapters :/	14:16
alterego	~two	14:16
infobot	picobot: three	14:16
alterego	Heh	14:17
Venemo_N900	lol	14:17
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alterego	schweeeet: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-13308452	14:20
alterego	Shame Nokia are killing their R&D depts. :D	14:21
alterego	I imagine we'll see iPaper soon ..	14:21
* alterego chuckles		14:21
Venemo_N900	heh	14:22
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lardman	http://www.raspberrypi.org/ looks quite cool (/me was also browsing the BBC) - £15 computer	14:26
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alterego	That is neat :)	14:28
alterego	25 dollars, wow ..	14:28
alterego	Possible MeeGo dev platform? :)	14:28
alterego	They're talking about CS in schools, may be a nice project to push.	14:29
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Stskeeps	shame it's armv6	14:30
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alterego	Yeah :/	14:31
Stskeeps	i'm doing a armv6+vfp hardfp build atm i want to try on my n8x0	14:32
Stskeeps	:P	14:32
alterego	Cool	14:33
alterego	Anyhow, got some stuff to do, bbiab :)	14:33
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lcuk	has anyone noticed the screen responsiveness in n900-de today?	15:26
Myrtti	wow, I'm really going to SF	15:27
Myrtti	flights booked and paid	15:27
alterego	Noice	15:27
alterego	where are you flying from?	15:27
lcuk	mikhas, you were noticing other slowness to, I wonder if it is related	15:27
lcuk	Myrtti, :D	15:27
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Myrtti	alterego: ryanscare from TMP @.fi to STN @.uk, United from LHR to SFO, and reverse	15:28
lbt	Standsted -> LHR .... have you done that trip before?	15:29
w00t_	eeeeep	15:30
Robot101	yeah that's like... 2 hours journey	15:30
w00t_	that's not nice at all	15:30
w00t_	(I have done it, and never wish to repeat it)	15:30
Myrtti	I know what I'm doing, folks ;-)	15:30
lbt	Myrtti: better to ask and be sure ... especially for that	15:30
tmpsantos	Myrtti: I'm going too, from TMP @.fi	15:31
* w00t_ is going from MAN to AMS to SFO		15:31
* lbt is LHR -> SFO .... g		15:31
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Myrtti	there is a stopover in Cambridgeshire before and after the flights to and from SFO ;-)	15:32
Robot101	aha :)	15:32
mikhas	lcuk, rakesh mentioned that it might be the MeeGo GS	15:32
lcuk	GS?	15:32
mikhas	it now got enabled in Qt or so?	15:32
mikhas	graphics system	15:32
lcuk	ahh	15:32
mikhas	it's in one of Qt's plugin folders	15:32
mikhas	so just moving it away from there, one could test perhaps ...	15:32
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lcuk	do you know which folder, I could give it a try	15:33
alterego	Myrtti: ah, I'm flying from LHR on Saturday with Virgin Atlantic	15:33
Myrtti	they're nice	15:33
mikhas	the MESA backend probably doesnt like SW/HW switching for rendering	15:33
mikhas	lcuk, /usr/lib/qt4/plugins/graphicssystems/	15:34
alterego	Will they have plugs for my laptop do you think? :)	15:34
alterego	10 hours is a long time to be twiddling ones' thumbs	15:34
Myrtti	no, but they have a nice on-flight system	15:34
alterego	Darn	15:34
Myrtti	I bought an extra battery for my N800 for my flights last year	15:35
alterego	I've got a total of three batteries at the moment for my N900	15:35
Myrtti	didn't use it in the end, the flight had nice movies	15:35
alterego	I'll be find with paper, pencil and N900 blasting music :)	15:35
alterego	s/find/fine/	15:35
infobot	alterego meant: I'll be fine with paper, pencil and N900 blasting music :)	15:35
Myrtti	like the fantastic mr. fox and inglorious bastards	15:35
alterego	Inglorious Bastards was quite good	15:36
Myrtti	might have watched men who stare at goats too, but I think I might have been quite tired at that point	15:36
alterego	Oh, I like that one too :D	15:36
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mikhas	lcuk, it is actually quite insane to deploy MeeGo GS if you havent tested it for the GL backend	15:37
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alterego	Oh, interesting, flights on thursday have dropped.	15:37
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alterego	Might be able to have that extra day I wanted.	15:37
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Myrtti	--> http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_Conference_Spring_2011/Flight_Information <--	15:38
Myrtti	don't forget	15:38
lcuk	mikhas, dunno, since you have looked have you seen a bug related to it?	15:39
mikhas	lcuk, no	15:39
mikhas	information just happens to flow to me, you know	15:40
lcuk	gok i will have a look	15:40
mikhas	but I see that the plugin is indeed there	15:40
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alterego	That BA flight is expensive	15:48
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lbt	phaeron: looking at the Apps: process now	15:48
alterego	God, when are they gonna fix the single signon wiki thing	15:49
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phaeron	lbt: Prefer: foo-* didn't work	15:50
phaeron	needed to specify the full name	15:50
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lbt	:(	15:50
lbt	can patch OBS	15:50
lbt	maybe do it now for 2.3	15:51
phaeron	why do we always discover issues towards the end of the cycle	15:51
phaeron	lbt: or maybe it is already implemented in 2.3	15:51
phaeron	I am testing on 2.1	15:51
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Fargh	hi guyes	16:13
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Fargh	anyone can recommend a good case for the wetab MeeGo ?	16:14
alterego	Probably not the best place to ask Fargh	16:14
alterego	Try wetab user forums.	16:15
Fargh	u got a point there :)	16:15
Fargh	but does that mean no-one here has a wetab ?	16:15
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phaeron	the one I have came with a zippered jacket type of case	16:17
Fargh	mine came with a small tissue bag	16:17
phaeron	you're lucky then :P	16:18
Fargh	a tissue bag is just keeping the dust out .. not really a protection	16:18
Fargh	i assume there isnt one marketed so far ...	16:19
Fargh	something like this is nice : http://shop.cool-bananas.de/product_info.php?info=p1558_SmartGuy-Book-Stand-Leder-Tasche-fuer-das-iPad-2-in-Ebony.html	16:20
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* gabrbedd stretches		16:21
gabrbedd	good morning!	16:21
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phaeron	Fargh: they have a community forum http://www.wetab-community.com/index.php?/topic/13344-wetab-case/	16:21
berndhs	no leather bag marketed for WeTab ? I smell an oportunity for grandmothers with good sewing machines	16:21
phaeron	it's pretty OT here ;)	16:21
Fargh	read on phaeron ... only links to ipad cases or to notebook bags	16:22
GAN900	Yes, we only talk about the mad scramble towards irrelevency that is MeeGo and not anybody shipping actual devices!	16:22
phaeron	it says the size can fit	16:22
Fargh	but thanks for looking phaeron	16:22
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* timeless_w7ip did eventually file a bug about the fields never showing		16:45
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lbt	X-Fade: OK - Apps:Testing process is looking reasonable	17:02
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lbt	there's a check to see if the app is registered and to make sure it comes from the registered source	17:02
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lbt	does anyone want to submit to Apps:Testing ?	17:03
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dwmw2_gone_	Server returned an error: HTTP Error 401: basic auth failed	17:31
dwmw2_gone_	hm, so why not ask me for a new password then?	17:31
* dwmw2_gone_ kicks osc		17:31
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thiago	DawnFoster: thanks for the reminder on the mailing lists	17:32
DawnFoster	thiago: yep	17:32
* thiago wonders if that's a losing battle though		17:32
DawnFoster	and since his questions was about apis	17:32
thiago	meego-dev is the main ML and these will come up all the time	17:32
DawnFoster	he'll get a better answer on meego-sdk	17:32
DawnFoster	since the people working on the apis don't really follow meego-dev that closely	17:33
DawnFoster	yeah, it's a never ending battle	17:33
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DawnFoster	had I been here when the mailing lists were created, that one would not have been named meego-dev	17:34
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thiago	rename to meego-distro	17:34
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DawnFoster	renaming mailing lists is problematic	17:34
DawnFoster	either you redirect meego-dev to the new name & you end up with all of the same issues	17:35
DawnFoster	or you completely break how people have set up their contacts / filters	17:35
Myrtti	I wonder when the thought of really, really traveling to SF will sink in	17:35
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gabrbedd	FWIW, people get better answers on meego-dev than they do in meego-sdk.	17:36
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Myrtti	... oh yeah, on Monday when I'm being reminded with an injection needle.	17:36
gabrbedd	Also, the last time I suggested something was OT in meego-dev... it didn't go well for me. :-/	17:36
gabrbedd	So, I don't think it'll end without renaming it.	17:37
clbr1	the django-project has the same problem for years, they just live with it	17:37
clbr1	and friendly moderators	17:37
gabrbedd	Isn't there also an upcoming (or current) transition from @meego.com to @lists.meego.com	17:38
gabrbedd	Maybe do it all at once... while people are updating their filter rules. :-)	17:38
lbt	mmm ... the tried and tested: "oh look, here's a problem ... fixing it will be a bit painful. Lets wait and see if it gets better as we grow bigger."	17:39
GAN900	Myrtti, needles?	17:40
thiago	DawnFoster: do you know something about the Hyatt being full on Saturday?	17:40
DawnFoster	thiago: if someone needs a room at the hyatt, they can contact Amy. She manages the room block & might be able to rearrange something on the back end	17:42
DawnFoster	I also don't think we've combined people yet for sponsored travel - that will free up some rooms	17:42
thiago	it's just that two people told me that on our website, they can get rooms for the other days but not Saturday	17:42
* dwmw2_gone_ hates the suse build tools		17:43
dwmw2_gone_	osc is such a pile of shit	17:43
thiago	dwmw2_gone_: do you prefer scratchbox?	17:43
dwmw2_gone_	that doesn't really do the same thing	17:43
Stskeeps	dwmw2_gone_: send a patch	17:44
dwmw2_gone_	I didn't mean "build"; I meant osc.	17:44
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dwmw2_gone_	I changed my password and it just says 'basic auth failed' and doesn't ask me to give it a new password	17:44
dwmw2_gone_	and I can't work out how to make it ask for a new password	17:44
dwmw2_gone_	it's failing to log in to api.meego.com, but seems to be asking gnome-keyring for a password for some other url. It usees whatever server is defined last in ~/.oscrc, rather than the one it's actually talking to	17:45
Stskeeps	edit the .oscrc, remove the reference	17:45
Stskeeps	and use -A http://whateverapi.dot.com	17:45
dwmw2_gone_	so I put api.meego.com last, and then it gets a negative answer from gkr (because I removed the old password in an attempt to make osc ask me for the new one)	17:45
dwmw2_gone_	and it still fails	17:45
dwmw2_gone_	Stskeeps: no, it is talking to api.meego.com	17:45
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dwmw2_gone_	this is an 'osc commit'	17:45
dwmw2_gone_	so it gets it from the local directory	17:45
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dwmw2_gone_	removing the api.meego.com section from osc entirely makes it work	17:46
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dwmw2_gone_	now it just complains that the SSL certificate on the build system is invalid	17:46
Myrtti	GAN900: Clexane	17:47
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GAN900	Myrtti, ah, yeah. Fun. :/	17:48
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Myrtti	probably saline first, so I learn how to do it :-/	17:49
Myrtti	extreme fun :-/	17:49
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lbt	dwmw2_gone_: I sympathise .... we've wasted hours with various stupid bugs :)	17:49
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* Stskeeps wonders if removing libmeegotouch dependancies from meego core is fair game for 1.3		17:51
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dwmw2_gone_	our internal build system has been broken for a week and nobody shows any sign of caring	17:52
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lbt	dwmw2_gone_: where?	17:52
dwmw2_gone_	lbt: Intel	17:52
lbt	ah ... tell 'em you need a decent OBS guy	17:53
* lbt <whistles>		17:53
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lbt	I was just about to reply to you on the ml ... ipv6 .... ROFL	17:53
lbt	"The MeeGo IT team is always looking for suitable volunteers with plenty of free time to sort out the deployment issues.... :)"	17:54
gabrbedd	Stskeeps: was libmeegotouch in core for 1.2 ??	17:54
dwmw2_gone_	why laugh at IPv6? With APNIC already effectively out of IPv4 addresses, anyone who still isn't IPv6-capable is severely behind the times	17:54
lbt	dwmw2_gone_: but ... I was also going to say that if you seriously want to help advise how we should deploy ipv6 then I'll make some time to chat at SF2011	17:55
dwmw2_gone_	it's inexcusable	17:55
dwmw2_gone_	I may not be there.	17:55
* lbt is too busy and is ignorant		17:55
dwmw2_gone_	almost certainly not, in fact	17:55
lbt	my last IPv6 experiment was in ~2001	17:55
dwmw2_gone_	IPv6 is simple enough. Give me a box on the appropriate subnet, and I can advertise IPv6 to all the machines that want to use it.	17:55
berndhs	ipv6 is like reality, it doesnt go away if you dont believe in it	17:55
Stskeeps	gabrbedd: i've just tried to rip it out, but it seems so :P	17:56
mwichmann	tell that to my ignorant ISP	17:56
lbt	berndhs: I need someone I can trust to advise me	17:56
dwmw2_gone_	my ISP gives me native IPv6 as well as Legacy IP on the ADSL line.	17:56
lbt	we need to understand the issues (particularl security)	17:56
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dwmw2_gone_	there are no security issues that are not exactly the same as they would be for Legacy IP	17:56
lbt	I have no clue how to setup an ipv6 firewall	17:56
dwmw2_gone_	it's exactly the same as for Legacy IP	17:56
dwmw2_gone_	and just as pointless.	17:56
lbt	g	17:57
dwmw2_gone_	If you don't want to answer connections on a given port, the kernel has a built-in "firewall"	17:57
dwmw2_gone_	it'll automatically send a RST packet for you!	17:57
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dwmw2_gone_	all you have to do it not call bind() to bind to that port!	17:57
lbt	we have a variety of machines in there ...	17:57
Stskeeps	lbt: i've set up an IOS ipv6 firewall and i am still getting therapy for it	17:58
lardman	bye chaps	17:58
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gabrbedd	Stskeeps: hrm. That surprises me. I thought it was getting mixed in at the UX level packages.	17:59
lbt	dwmw2_gone_: I can't set it up until I understand possibly by proxy) what I'm doing. Not knowing ipv6 firewalling it would be foolish to assume that the issues are the same	17:59
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Stskeeps	gabrbedd: the loop goes xdg-utils -> libcontentaction -> libmeegotouch and some stuff with qt mobility	18:00
lbt	though even a 1-liner on irc helps...	18:00
dwmw2_gone_	the issues are exactly the same	18:00
dwmw2_gone_	the protocols underneath IPv6 (ICMP/TCP/UDP) are all exactly the same	18:00
lbt	well, we rely on NAT to prevent routed access from outside to internal boxes	18:00
dwmw2_gone_	it's just a different address.	18:00
dwmw2_gone_	that's always been fundamentally stupid and broken	18:01
dwmw2_gone_	there are so many ways that NAT allows incoming connections	18:01
dwmw2_gone_	ALGs like FTP, uPNP, etc.	18:01
dwmw2_gone_	just use a connection-tracking firewall to prevent incoming connections, if you really insist on listening on a port on which you don't want to accept things really	18:01
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lbt	well, we have VMs inside that reasonably trusted users have root on - when they accidentally install something ...	18:03
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lbt	so yes, we want to have multiple layers of protection for our human-ness	18:04
berndhs	it is fascinating how hugely resistant to change people in high-tech innovative industyry are	18:04
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lbt	berndhs: what's the "exposure" of deploying ipv6 vs not deploying it?	18:04
lbt	and how much use will it get?	18:05
berndhs	the exposure of not deploying it is that APNIC is out of new IPv4 addresses now	18:05
berndhs	so people in charge of networks have to start working on it	18:05
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berndhs	not start to thinkg about planning it	18:05
berndhs	start working on it. Now.	18:06
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* Stskeeps decides to start ww2 by asking if it's fair game to remove libmeegotouch deps in meego core		18:06
Stskeeps	er, ww3	18:06
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dwmw2_gone_	a simple connection-tracking firewall (which is needed to do NAT anyway) is all that's needed for that.	18:06
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lbt	berndhs: so I should implement it before finding out about it? :)	18:06
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dwmw2_gone_	lbt: seriously, if you need any assistance with setting up IPv6, please let me know	18:07
berndhs	you and the rest should quit stalling	18:07
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berndhs	the industry is stalling because people dont feel like working on it, because they thiunk it is new	18:07
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lbt	dwmw2_gone_: OK - thanks. Having someone to sanity check with (and to inform mgm that we have as a 'backstop/consultant/HELP' guy is useful)	18:08
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lbt	berndhs: like I said ~2001 was my first go ... it was lonely	18:08
dwmw2_gone_	I've been running IPv6 since about 2001 too.	18:08
berndhs	right, 10 years ago	18:08
alterego	Stskeeps: I was going to say, that would be some super modification if you could go back in time as well ;)	18:09
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alterego	MAybe you could take maemo with you and subtly leave it on Nokia's door step 5 years early ;)	18:09
Stskeeps	meego	18:09
Stskeeps	:P	18:09
alterego	I don't think that's quite ready yet :P	18:10
alterego	Though, if you took it back to then, then it'd probably be ready by now :D	18:10
dwmw2_gone_	you could go back a couple of years and suggest that perhaps using maemo as the basis for the meego handset ux instead of throwing it all away and starting from scratch might help with time-to-market :)	18:11
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lbt	g	18:12
Robot101	and that rewriting all of the code in order to just provide a new 3rd party API wasn't the best choice either... :P	18:12
dwmw2_gone_	that too	18:12
dwmw2_gone_	hello Robot101. How goes it?	18:12
Stskeeps	i still maintain that if maemo had made the jump to a meego-like model like i proposed back in october 2008 http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Reconstructed , we would have been in an entirely different situation now	18:12
Stskeeps	:P	18:12
Robot101	pretty good, except the all-day meetings, nocturnal lawyer confcalls, and currently a very annoying headache - probably due to lack of lunch or coffee	18:13
Robot101	how goes it with you?	18:13
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dwmw2_gone_	busy. http://connie.woodhou.se/	18:13
Robot101	:D congratulations!	18:13
dwmw2_gone_	ta	18:13
Myrtti	awwwwww	18:13
Myrtti	congrats on forking the process	18:14
Robot101	dwmw2_gone_: are you in cambs these days?	18:14
dwmw2_gone_	as close as ever, yes.	18:14
dneary	dwmw2_gone_, grats! your first?	18:14
Robot101	dwmw2_gone_: was talking to rgs yesterday and couldn't remember if you were hereabouts or london	18:14
Robot101	dwmw2_gone_: we should get lunch/dinner/beer/something	18:15
dwmw2_gone_	Head to Addenbrookes and keep going for about 15 miles.	18:15
dwmw2_gone_	Robot101: indeed.	18:15
dwmw2_gone_	I normally try to get in to Charlie Chan's for Dim Sum with a few hacker-types on the first friday of each month	18:15
dwmw2_gone_	didn't happen today though	18:15
dwmw2_gone_	dneary: thanks. Yes.	18:15
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Robot101	dwmw2_gone_: the resounding deadness of stuff like cambs lug when you actually work out the OSS people who live around here is kinda sad	18:16
dwmw2_gone_	yeah :)	18:17
dneary	dwmw2_gone_, It's a life changer :)	18:17
Robot101	we should establish some kind of cabal forthwith	18:17
dwmw2_gone_	indeed we should	18:17
Robot101	that and you should come and see our swanky new offices :D	18:17
dwmw2_gone_	we should also make Imad pay you to develop telepathy-sipe	18:17
dwmw2_gone_	mfleming made a start on it	18:18
Robot101	oh really? cool. re-using some code or from scratch?	18:18
Myrtti	sigh it would be nice to stay in Cambs for longer than three days this time :-/	18:18
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Robot101	we could do a proposal - unfortunately I think the most sensible route forward is to just fix up libpurple's API so telepathy-haze will actually pick up the sipe plugin properly	18:18
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Robot101	it would have nice benefits on msn, yahoo, aim, icq, etc etc then too	18:19
Robot101	and, well, we have to maintain less :)	18:19
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Robot101	unless there's been a big regeime change on the protocol	18:19
dwmw2_gone_	makes sense	18:20
dwmw2_gone_	we kind of had it working with telepathy-haze, iirc.	18:20
Robot101	yeah I think we just need to plug away at that for a while	18:20
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Robot101	we've got some libpurple hackers knocking around	18:20
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Robot101	we started to wire up audio/video in libpurple to telepathy	18:20
Robot101	but then we got distracted by a bee	18:21
dwmw2_gone_	cool	18:21
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dneary	DawnFoster, Ping?	18:26
DawnFoster	hey dneary	18:26
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dneary	Hi DawnFoster	18:28
dneary	I was expecting to hear back from you/Adam yesterday	18:29
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DawnFoster	I just re-sent it to Adam to see what we can do	18:29
Myrtti	I have a nagging feeling I've forgotten something important again	18:30
Myrtti	I hate this	18:30
dneary	OK	18:30
dneary	I'm stuck now	18:30
lbt	X-Fade: ping	18:32
gabrbedd	Myrtti: fly up?	18:34
lbt	does anyone hava an app for MeeGo Apps ?	18:35
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gabrbedd	lbt: The only one I know of is AppUp's.	18:36
gabrbedd	lbt: And the package mgr on Netbook	18:36
lbt	:D	18:36
lbt	we have the meego.com Apps too	18:36
lbt	I want an "app"	18:36
lbt	if you do an osc sr to MeeGo:1.2:Apps:Testing then it runs some automated checks and promotes it	18:37
Alan1234	gabrbedd: is the source for AppUp available somewhere?	18:37
lbt	Alan1234: no	18:38
lbt	fully closed	18:38
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Alan1234	shame. I expect we'll see each vendor reinventing that wheel to fragment^W customize the user experience	18:39
lbt	yes/no	18:39
gabrbedd	lbt: well, the gooey pkg management stuff in netbook was buggy last I checked. Esp wrt adding/removing repos.	18:39
lbt	AppUp is a white-label offering	18:39
gabrbedd	lbt: but that may have been libzypp bugs that are now fixed.	18:39
lbt	gabrbedd: yeah ... I want a fart-app	18:39
lbt	like one of the maemo extras : http://maemo.org/downloads/	18:40
Alan1234	lbt: so Intel aren't going to choke it. I figured the source might be open but the signing woudl not be	18:40
* gabrbedd starts working on an audio sample for a realistic fart, for lbt.		18:40
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lbt	Alan1234: Intel want to own the AppStore market for MeeGo	18:41
lbt	which is a noble goal :)	18:41
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Alan1234	it is?	18:41
lbt	they will allow OSS apps	18:41
lbt	and they will allow us to charge for them too	18:41
lbt	I'm working on a proposal to AppUp to link to the community OBS	18:42
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lbt	they're interested	18:42
Alan1234	sounds good. I'd still be suprised if other vendors didn't insist on having their own stores but I'd like to hope it all works out nicely	18:43
lbt	oh, they can ... Intel will try and do deals to white label for other vendors	18:44
lbt	the 30% cut they take will be shared to the Intel/vendors	18:44
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dwmw2_gone_	unixODBC.i586: E: devel-file-in-non-devel-package (Badness: 50) /usr/lib/libodbcinst.so	20:10
dwmw2_gone_	hm, I think that file is supposed to be there	20:11
dwmw2_gone_	how do I stop my build from failing with that 'error' ?	20:11
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Stskeeps	isn't there a proper .so.something file?	20:11
dwmw2_gone_	you're aware of what ODBC is?	20:12
Stskeeps	yes, sadly	20:13
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Stskeeps	if it's a 'legit' .so, add a rpmlintrc workaround	20:13
dwmw2_gone_	you can you do that in the build system?	20:13
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* dwmw2_gone_ is trying to get OOo to build again (in devel:enterprise:ooo)		20:14
dwmw2_gone_	as a precursor to getting the libreoffice packages in devel:enterprise:libreoffice to build	20:14
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sofar	dwmw2_gone_: either rpmlint filter or fix it so that it's versioned	20:16
sofar	unversioned .so files ...	20:16
dwmw2_gone_	http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Packaging_checks#Suppressing_False_Positives	20:17
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sofar	yup	20:17
sofar	it's still bad	20:17
dwmw2_gone_	I thought the whole point was that the standard method of getting database access was to load libodbc.so	20:18
dwmw2_gone_	no version number	20:18
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gabrbedd	dwmw2_gone_: You're right... you need it in your main pkg.	20:22
sofar	in this case the rpmlint rule ir probably best	20:22
sofar	s/ir/is/	20:23
infobot	sofar meant: in this case the rpmlint rule is probably best	20:23
gabrbedd	FWIW, I copied fedora's .spec, and I didn't have any trouble building it.	20:23
dwmw2_gone_	gabrbedd: for unixODBC?	20:23
gabrbedd	But this was several months ago.	20:23
dwmw2_gone_	the one in devel:enterprise:ooo is also from Fedora	20:23
gabrbedd	dwmw2_gone_: Yes.	20:23
dwmw2_gone_	gabrbedd: were you also building OOo (or libreoffice) ?	20:23
dwmw2_gone_	or did you have some other reason for wanting unixODBC?	20:24
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gabrbedd	I don't recall what needed it. Either wine or Mixxx	20:24
gabrbedd	Something like that.	20:24
dwmw2_gone_	addFilter("devel-file-in-non-devel-package.*/usr/lib/libodbcinst.so")	20:25
dwmw2_gone_	http://build.meego.com/package/files?package=unixODBC&project=devel%3Aenterprise%3Aooo	20:25
dwmw2_gone_	what did I do wrong?	20:26
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* npm proposes another release blocker https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16879		20:26
MeeGoBot	Bug 16879 nor, Low, ---, peter.j.zhu, NEW, hunspell dumps core with default english dictionary, and is installed with no default dictionary	20:26
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dwmw2_gone_	ah, it just hadn't tried to rebuild it	20:29
dwmw2_gone_	love it when it does that	20:29
dwmw2_gone_	better now I manually triggered a rebuild	20:29
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npm	.... or you can just install libreoffice: http://wiki.meego.com/LibreOffice	20:29
npm	gabrbedd: have you figured out how to get mixxx waveform display working	20:30
gabrbedd	npm: yes.	20:30
npm	ooh!	20:30
npm	meewant!	20:30
gabrbedd	what's it worth to you? (hee... hee...)	20:30
dwmw2_gone_	npm: hm, that does seem like it might be a sane approach :)	20:30
npm	a GPL?	20:30
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npm	it is the sane approach, unless you're one of those unrealistic people that thinks its foolish to load RPMs targetted for other distros	20:31
gabrbedd	<pedantic>GPL doesn't require me to give you a copy... :-p</pedantic>	20:32
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gabrbedd	I'll send you the workaround tonight via e-mail.	20:32
npm	cool!	20:32
gabrbedd	Feel free to remind me.	20:32
* gabrbedd is forgetful.		20:32
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npm	i've been using the nonwaveform display. actually i almost like it better	20:32
npm	forces me to use the meters and my ears more old school style	20:33
npm	plus you can "scratch" the display easier	20:33
gabrbedd	npm: Yes, that's true (and a good reason not to use the waveforms)	20:33
dwmw2_gone_	hm, is there only the tarball of rpms?	20:34
dwmw2_gone_	is there no yum repository that can just be configured?	20:34
npm	i wonder if there should be a meegoconf music making jam	20:34
gabrbedd	npm: But they're so much cooler to show your friends. :-)	20:34
npm	what's cooler to show your friends is mixing with a wiimote :-)	20:34
gabrbedd	dwmw2_gone_: Huh??	20:34
npm	(done)	20:34
gabrbedd	npm: :-)	20:34
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dwmw2_gone_	I'm trying to build MeeGo images with LibreOffice in	20:35
gabrbedd	npm: Unfortunately... I've been hacking so hard I my musician chops won't be up to snuff.	20:35
npm	although i don't want to purchase a USB powered IR bar just to get better tracking	20:35
npm	me too	20:35
dwmw2_gone_	so ideally, I need the actual packages in a yum repository somewhere, and to add that repo (and the package names) to my .ks file	20:35
npm	but i will bring some tunes and my bcd3000 incase anybody wants to see (and maybe my qchord just for fun)	20:36
gabrbedd	dwmw2_gone_: dump them in a folder. run `createrepo` on them. Set up a local webserver. Put the URL (http://localhost/my-sweet-repo/) in the .ks	20:36
dwmw2_gone_	well yes	20:37
dwmw2_gone_	but in that case they don't get updated with new releases :)	20:37
npm	dwmw2_gone_: then for compliance you get to compile it yourself.	20:37
gabrbedd	Dump the new ones in... then re-run createrepo.	20:37
gabrbedd	:-)	20:37
gabrbedd	(However... mic/yum/zypper sometimes doesn't update the cache very well :-/)	20:38
npm	although i'm curious what's the "compliance" story on having your own app downloader that just DLs the RPM from libreoffice and installs it	20:38
npm	not sure how the compliance story would work out otherwise, for installing nonfree codecs, flash, skype, java, google-talk-plugin, google-chrome, etc	20:39
gabrbedd	npm: AFAIK, compliance just has to do with the deps of your app. If your app has nefarious purposes... I don't think compliance speaks to that effect.	20:40
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gabrbedd	npm: Compliance has to do with selling single applications to customers and they "just work"	20:40
npm	"user convenience" and "being on par with other linux distros" is nefarious...	20:40
npm	?	20:40
gabrbedd	npm: But you don't have to be "compliant" in order to be installed. You just can't market is as a MeeGo app.	20:41
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gabrbedd	npm: Package installer that circumvents normal repos and quality conventions to download random tarballs and rpms...	20:41
gabrbedd	That's not exactly "above board" -- but I meant "nefarious" with a grin. :-)	20:42
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npm	compliance will thus mean multiple copies of nonfree and proprietary code, all not up to the latest security patches... for example google chrome is distributed with it's own flash, that had a security issue that was fixed by adobe already	20:42
dwmw2_gone_	that is what you get when you distribute binary code from other people	20:43
dwmw2_gone_	which is why I'd be much happier getting LibreOffice builds into the MeeGo build system	20:43
gabrbedd	npm: that has nothing to do with compliance.	20:44
dwmw2_gone_	third-party builds tend to use a lot of static libraries (Chrome is an extreme example)	20:44
berndhs	well, compliance is not only for quality, it is also for some measure of control of the market	20:44
dwmw2_gone_	I have no idea what you think the word 'compliance' means :)	20:44
reed	gabrbedd, thanks for the advice yesterday, I installed latest 1.1.99 last night	20:44
dwmw2_gone_	but as long as you comply with my demands, I don't care	20:44
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gabrbedd	reed: you're welcome! glad it worked out.	20:45
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npm	dwmw2_gone_: except with a package as complex as libreoffice of chrome, there's not enough MeeGo users to make the packaging secure (from perspective of many eyebals).	20:45
dwmw2_gone_	well, we have chromium anyway in MeeGo	20:45
reed	gabrbedd, 'worked' is a big word :) there are many glitches still... for one, the 'home' button doesn't respond	20:46
gabrbedd	compliance: n. A contract between the OS and and App so that stuff "just works."	20:46
dwmw2_gone_	we need our own build, to get the integration right	20:46
dwmw2_gone_	and in my case, I need it so that we have NTLM single-sign-on so it works to all our internal web sites without constantly asking for passwords	20:46
npm	and chromium in meego is a security hole for exactly the reasons mentioned	20:46
npm	https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16284	20:46
MeeGoBot	Bug 16284 nor, Medium, ---, yang.jie, NEW, Chromium browser sandbox feature is not working in MeeGo builds	20:46
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npm	because these programs are insanely hard to package/manage/etc and i'd rarther have the people developing them packaging them...	20:46
reed	why chromium instead of mozilla? (FAQ?)	20:46
gabrbedd	reed: The 'home' button works off the "windows key". Is that the button you were pressing?	20:47
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gabrbedd	npm: compliance is /not/ your enemy.	20:47
reed	gabrbedd, no response either from the keyboard or from the actual button on the exopc slate	20:47
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gabrbedd	reed: Please file a bug. :-)	20:47
reed	indeed!	20:48
dwmw2_gone_	npm: the problem is that those who package it upstream don't do a good job either of making the distro packages	20:48
gabrbedd	npm: What you're doing doesn't qualify as "compliant" -- but neither is it "vorboden."	20:48
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dwmw2_gone_	and you get similar problems. You fix a security hole in some library in MeeGo, but the "real" chrome doesn't get automatically fixed, because it uses its own version	20:48
npm	it's just that they don't package it for meego. they package for fedora or ubuntu	20:48
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gabrbedd	npm: However the "meegolem" stuff is a bit of a problem because of the name you chose. But the actual stuff you're doing is OK.	20:49
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gabrbedd	Anyway... I need to go.	20:49
* gabrbedd is away		20:49
npm	reed: I use firefox4: http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo-Lem-Firefox4	20:49
npm	it's very nice	20:50
reed	does flash plugin crash? :)	20:50
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reed	I think I understand why chromium: screen real estate :(	20:51
npm	gabrbedd: i know compliance is not my enemy. it's just my opinion that the compliance needs to be the other way around.... meego needs to comply w/ other distros because you will always be installing RPMs from other linuxes in the real world	20:51
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npm	until the number of meego users > number of fedora + ubuntu users	20:52
reed	npm, "you will always be installing RPMs from other linuxes in the real world" seriously?	20:52
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dm8tbr	good joke indeed	20:52
reed	I don't think so, especially not on tablets	20:52
npm	do you have a meego RPM for java?	20:52
npm	flash?	20:52
npm	skype?	20:52
npm	google-talk plugin?	20:52
npm	i could go on	20:53
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reed	to quote an old friend of mine: if it's not in debian, it doesn't exist... we could say the same s/debian/meego	20:53
reed	no skype for meego? skype doesn't exist	20:53
reed	(and it's a good thing)	20:54
npm	well tell that to your clients that pay your bills because they talk to you on skype	20:54
reed	http://jitsi.org/index.php/Main/SideBar	20:54
reed	npm, get an android tablet	20:54
reed	:)	20:54
npm	no thanks	20:54
reed	or re-package skype for meego	20:55
npm	why waste time? it's already installed and running.	20:55
reed	there is no way IMHO to mix packages between distros... it's just bad, the holy grail we looked for over 20 years	20:55
reed	it doesn't exist	20:55
gabrbedd	npm: That's what extras/surrounds is for.	20:56
npm	just download the fedora version: http://www.skype.com/intl/en/get-skype/on-your-computer/linux/downloading.fedora	20:56
npm	sudo rpm -ivh skype-2.2.0.25-fedora.i586.rpm	20:56
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npm	and you're done	20:56
mwichmann	npm: feel free to file a bug complaining that the no deps rule will lead to lots of duplications	20:56
npm	note there's no "downloading.meego" link	20:56
timoph	expecting java, etc. from upstream meego is like expecting proprietary drivers from mainline kernel	20:57
npm	i don't expect it. the user expects it.	20:57
npm	i just want to make it easy for user	20:57
mwichmann	gabrbedd: "random rpms" no, but what about thinks like eclipse that have their own installer/updater: still "nefarious" (tongue in cheek or not)?	20:57
npm	the download can happen when the user brings up the tablet/netbook/handheld for first time	20:57
timoph	yeah. but those things should be added by device vendors	20:57
npm	and those things might not be able to be added by device vendors w/o special deals, which some device vendors are big enough to have	20:58
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timoph	true but IMO upstream meego should be clean from those bits	21:00
mwichmann	dwmw2_gone_: plugins are a pain for this system, it's kind of pretentious of the builder to be flagging the plugins (which are pretty much always plain .so) as "development files"	21:00
npm	sure	21:00
npm	i agree it should be lean	21:00
npm	clean	21:00
npm	but there's no reason why an app can't be included to DL all the proprietary/third party stuff	21:01
npm	much like on ubuntu	21:01
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timoph	yep. That's where the surrounds/extras should come in	21:01
npm	but wouldn't that app be noncompliant?	21:01
npm	can surrounds/extras package java/skype/flash/etc?	21:02
npm	seems like a copyright violation	21:02
timoph	not sure. I'd guess no since the servers are hosted in US	21:02
gabrbedd	mwichmann: BTW, how should an application market itself if it's not meego compliant... but for meego?	21:02
npm	meegoloid?	21:03
mwichmann	not a question for me, I wish I knew	21:03
gabrbedd	I.e. how do you indicate that "This is a specialized app that runs on MeeGo, but is not a MeeGo App"	21:03
timoph	:)	21:03
timoph	build it into one big static blob :p	21:04
gabrbedd	mwichmann: fun stuff.	21:04
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gabrbedd	:-)	21:04
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mwichmann	one answer is you put the restrictions on "MeeGo Certified" or some such compound term, and leave MeeGo less restricted	21:04
mwichmann	not the approach chosen, though	21:04
timoph	but yeah. The community provided thing will have libs that are not available in meego itself	21:04
timoph	maemo extras is a good example for that	21:05
lbt	FWIW ... I got the automation process running today	21:05
lbt	if anyone wants to submitrequest to MeeGo:1.2:Apps:Testing ... it'll be automatically rejected :)	21:06
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lbt	with trace happening #meego-boss	21:06
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timoph	:)	21:09
timoph	in community obs?	21:09
lbt	yes	21:09
npm	re timoph: "build it into one big static blob" yeah... so each app gets its own copy of /opt/google/chrome/libffmpegsumo.so	21:09
npm	now that's progress!	21:09
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timoph	:D	21:09
lbt	npm: it's bit like java	21:09
npm	no, it's worse	21:10
lbt	don't forget Sun / Intel sell hardware ;)	21:10
* timoph installs osc to this machine and tries		21:10
lbt	timoph: go to #meego-boss too	21:10
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npm	it's like java in android --- basically a waste....	21:11
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gabrbedd	So how is extras/surrounds going to be presented to the public? Does that get a bye because of the meego.com domain?	21:12
lbt	no	21:12
lbt	there's no answer yet	21:12
timoph	hmmh. no support for ubuntu 11.04 yet :(	21:13
lbt	in maemo the goal was "a repo that you could enable on a production device"	21:13
npm	ogles tinyness of new HP Veer 4G	21:13
gabrbedd	ameego: Hey... get extras/surrounds... it's so cool!	21:13
gabrbedd	friend: surrounds what?	21:13
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gabrbedd	ameego: Um, can't say.	21:13
gabrbedd	:-p	21:13
timoph	too new python	21:13
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npm	( http://www.palm.com/us/products/phones/veer/index.html?sssdmh=dm13.274648 )	21:14
lbt	gabrbedd: nah... kinda like saying "hey, do you use gcc -O3"	21:14
lbt	meaningless unless you're a dev	21:14
lbt	MeeGo Apps though....	21:14
lbt	that's the beasty	21:14
lbt	gabrbedd: apps-beta.meego.com at the moment	21:14
lbt	when an app needs more than meego - that's when the dev uses surrounds	21:15
lbt	so any reusable components go in there	21:15
gabrbedd	lbt: OK. So the effort /is/ getting a special exception (for now).	21:16
gabrbedd	:-)	21:16
lbt	no, not at all	21:16
lbt	what makes you think that?	21:16
gabrbedd	lbt: Can I provide my own store that supplies MeeGo Apps... but several of the apps are not (themselves) compliant?	21:17
Stskeeps	lbt: libmeegotouch seems like a reasonable candidate for Surrounds trial.	21:17
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gabrbedd	I'm pretty sure the answer is "no", because I can't use the MeeGo name apart from compliance.	21:18
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* gabrbedd would be happy to be wrong, though.		21:18
lbt	timoph: resubmit - I registered your app	21:18
timoph	ok	21:18
lbt	gabrbedd: I'm not using the meego name - we (you and I and all of us in here) just happen to own the DNS :)	21:19
lbt	Stskeeps: true	21:19
lbt	gabrbedd: MeeGo Apps apps do not have to be compliant	21:19
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lbt	we will of course support a 'compliant app' area	21:19
gabrbedd	lbt: Right... but the Community OBS can supply that service because it has a special status within MeeGo.	21:20
gabrbedd	lbt: As far as I understand, I can't go and do the same thing elsewhere.	21:20
gabrbedd	lbt: For example, to provide closed-source apps/packages.	21:20
timoph	so split them into :compliant and :extras or something?	21:20
gabrbedd	lbt: While I can technically do it elsewhere... it's unclear how to tell your customer that the whole setup is for MeeGo -- because it's not a compliant setup.	21:21
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lbt	gabrbedd: ah... true	21:22
timoph	btw, with all this qml hype going on what's the status of Qt c++ apps?	21:22
lcuk	timoph, many QML components require C++ components still?	21:22
gabrbedd	timoph: i don't understand the question. Qt C++ still rocks...	21:23
timoph	I'm thinking apps that don't use the QML stuff at all	21:23
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npm	qt-creator doesn't use QML stuff at all	21:23
gabrbedd	timoph: And QML apps still need the C++ portion to load.	21:23
timoph	yep	21:23
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timoph	I'm just hoping that there's going to be a decent theming for traditional qwidget based apps	21:24
gabrbedd	timoph: There is absolutely, positively no requirement to use QML, QtQuick, or even Qt in MeeGo	21:24
lcuk	gabrbedd, surely that is limitation of the loader/OS portion for now?	21:24
timoph	good to know	21:24
gabrbedd	However, if you're not doing Qt... you're facing an upstream battle.	21:24
gabrbedd	s/upstream/uphill/	21:25
infobot	gabrbedd meant: However, if you're not doing Qt... you're facing an uphill battle.	21:25
lbt	timoph: heh ... thanks ... try again ... should work	21:25
lbt	I am doing check_package_built_at_source	21:25
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timoph	ok	21:25
lbt	which doesn't quite work	21:25
lbt	a quick modification to the workflow	21:25
lbt	and you're good to go	21:25
gabrbedd	timoph: Last I checked, the Maemo theme on handset crashes all my apps. #Crap	21:25
gabrbedd	timoph: But on tablet things are sane.	21:26
lbt	I really like this flexibility on the workflow...	21:26
npm	Hildon? http://blogs.gnome.org/foundation/2010/10/13/gtkmeego-handset-integration-work-call-for-bids/	21:26
lbt	timoph: \o/	21:26
npm	do they face upstream battle?	21:26
lbt	you have the first app accepted into Testing :)	21:26
timoph	:)	21:27
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timoph	and the sr message for it was "let's reject this once more" :D	21:27
lbt	https://build.pub.meego.com/project/monitor?project=MeeGo:1.2:Apps:Testing	21:27
lbt	really :)	21:27
timoph	yep	21:27
lbt	thanks - I may steal that and repackage it as a test pkg	21:29
gabrbedd	npm: Yes. The current attitude in MeeGo is: "You're not using Qt?? Then why are you here?"	21:29
gabrbedd	npm: Note that I disagree with that sentiment.	21:30
timoph	I could do an update for that package soonish. IIRC I have a newer version of it in git	21:30
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gabrbedd	npm: Note that I also use Qt for all my apps... :-p	21:30
lbt	OK - I'm around all weekend but not tonight	21:30
npm	seems like others disagree too http://codex.xiaoka.com/wiki/cordia:start	21:30
lbt	gabrbedd: I think there's a difference between "MeeGo for vendors" and "MeeGo for hackers"	21:31
mwichmann	my discomfort is there's a whole world of stuff that works well, now we have to wait for it to be "imported" into Qt before we can use it?	21:32
lbt	smoku: ping	21:32
gandhijee	hey, how do i update from 1.1 to 1.1.2?	21:32
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lbt	mwichmann: the community OBS is for doing that... phasing	21:32
lbt	we need core to get on with delivering to device vendors	21:32
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lbt	I don't want them messing about with gtk	21:33
lbt	or being held back by it not passing tests	21:33
npm	mwichmann: I agree... there's even a whole world of stuff that works in plain Qt/Gnome and it's being replaced by "demo apps" in QML	21:33
gabrbedd	mwichmann: I agree to some extent... but...	21:33
mwichmann	I know my viewpoint isn't the one being catered to, so not too fussed	21:34
npm	which don't have enough use/users to get the featureset we expect out of the highly used apps	21:34
gabrbedd	mwichmann: I also value the fact that MeeGo is specializing. Otherwise we're just another Ubuntu or Fedora	21:34
mwichmann	oh, I get it; but I also get to have "reactions" to things :)	21:34
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npm	well it should specialize on the hardware it supports best. but the another ubuntu or fedora would be nice from a developer standpoint	21:34
gabrbedd	mwichmann: :-) Sorry.	21:35
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npm	because it means, for example, i don't have to load up mercurial RPM's from fedora because they're not part of meego	21:35
gabrbedd	npm: I fully disagree. If the goal is to be another Fedora or ubuntu... let's instead go join Fedora and Ubuntu.	21:35
mwichmann	you mean bzr, right? oh wait, not those either	21:36
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npm	or the fact that in order to get my son going with "Hello World!" book in python on meego, i had to install a bunch of missing rpm's in meego, from fedora	21:36
lbt	so ... how about letting core MeeGo be a baseline for vendors. Then the community can build 'distros' around it ?	21:36
npm	and now he's on chapter 20 in meego.	21:36
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npm	otherwise i'd have had to use windows.	21:36
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npm	gabrbedd: i don't want another fedora or ubuntu. i want a meego with the uptake and wide availability of packafges of a major distro	21:38
npm	or i just forcibly make them compatible with http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo-Lem	21:38
lbt	npm: that's what surrounds is	21:38
* lbt talks to himself some more		21:38
timoph	lbt: yep but dunno if there's enough interested people to start building a distro based on MeeGo	21:38
lbt	timoph: nope .. agreed	21:38
npm	lbt -- it's what surrounds will hopefully be once it is populated	21:39
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gabrbedd	npm: What do you get from MeeGo that Fedora\|Ubuntu\|Debian\|SuSe\|MePHis\|Slackware\|DSL don't give you?	21:39
lbt	npm: yep	21:39
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lbt	and npm, the more we mess about installing alien packages and praying... the less progress we make	21:39
npm	a OS that runs nicely on a netbook with SSD?	21:39
timoph	doing MeeGo + KDE active would be an interesting combination	21:39
npm	an OS that clocks half the interrupts per second of fedora 15	21:40
npm	etc	21:40
* lbt looks at the Project:KDE area on the c.obs		21:40
timoph	lbt: yep. noticed that :)	21:40
lbt	npm: pass me your magic wand when you're done....	21:40
npm	well there's a different magic wand for vendors and hackers	21:41
RST38h	An OS that natively supports Atom CPUs!	21:41
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npm	i have my hacker magic wand	21:41
lbt	timoph: and I just asked the cordia guys to setup alongside	21:41
timoph	cool	21:41
lbt	npm: and what are you doing with it ?	21:41
npm	actually using meego to develop	21:41
lbt	what?	21:41
npm	w/o spending a lot of time compiling up the world	21:41
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timoph	hopefully they'll make ks files available to build their stuff into images. Would be interesting to try those with exopc	21:43
gabrbedd	npm: RST38h: Fair enough. But IMHO if we're trying to do the same thing as Ubuntu Unity... then what are we doing here?	21:43
npm	i don't see those as targetting mobility specifically	21:43
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gabrbedd	npm: Unity is.	21:45
npm	however, there's a baseline level of stuff that is basically "GNU Linux" and i just expect it to be there already, just like it is on my fedora desktop	21:45
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gabrbedd	Unity is the successor to "Ubuntu Netbook Remix" and now the default desktop for Ubuntu. Canonical is targetting mobile as the future.	21:46
gabrbedd	But they have a different goal that MeeGo (as best as I can tell).	21:46
gabrbedd	s/that/than/	21:46
infobot	gabrbedd meant: But they have a different goal than MeeGo (as best as I can tell).	21:46
npm	and also, although not applied currently, there are security features in MeeGo that make it more interesting than those OSes	21:46
gandhijee	RST38h: umm most OS's support Atom natively... its the abortion that is know as the GMA500 that is messed up	21:47
RST38h	gabrbedd: I though I were the resident doomsayer?	21:47
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gabrbedd	I'm not doomsaying.	21:47
gabrbedd	I'm just saying that MeeGo has a different goal.	21:47
gandhijee	so yeah, how do i update my meego 1.1 netbook to 1.1.2	21:47
RST38h	gabrbedd: And that is?...	21:47
npm	seems like http://www.linaro.org/ has the same goals as meego	21:48
gabrbedd	Shipping devices and an app store ecosystem.	21:48
npm	i'm looking forward to it...	21:49
gabrbedd	At least, that's what I've always understood MeeGo's goal.	21:49
Stskeeps	npm: not really	21:49
RST38h	gabrbedd: Nice. Now, reality check:	21:49
npm	Stskeeps: why not?	21:49
RST38h	gabrbedd: 1) How many physical Meego devices are on the market?	21:49
Stskeeps	npm: linaro is advancing ARM development, toolchains, components and does everything from ubuntu to android	21:50
Stskeeps	npm: they're not an OS in themselves	21:50
RST38h	gabrbedd: 2) How many of these are being bought?	21:50
gandhijee	they are going middle ware, says right on their page	21:50
npm	seems like it's just a way for ubuntu to get their code into devices	21:50
RST38h	gabrbedd: 3) What makes App Store distribution better than independent distribution?	21:50
gabrbedd	RST38h: I didn't say that we accomplished the goal. However, it's always been my understanding that the 1.2 release is the one where people start shipping devices.	21:51
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gabrbedd	RST38h: app store == customer trust and billing.	21:51
RST38h	gabrbedd: People do not ship devices. Customers do.	21:51
RST38h	Sorry,manufacturers do	21:51
gabrbedd	And manufacturers aren't people?	21:51
RST38h	gabrbedd: Plenty of cc processors will do billing for you	21:52
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smoku	lbt, pong	21:52
RST38h	gabrbedd: Acutally, no :)	21:52
gabrbedd	skynet, eh?	21:52
lbt	smoku: hi	21:52
RST38h	unless you are manufacturing meego tablets in your basement	21:52
lbt	was asking in #cordia too	21:52
lbt	do you want to make cordia a 'project' on the community OBS?	21:52
lbt	http://wiki.meego.com/OBS/Community_OBS/Project_Areas	21:52
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gandhijee	so again i ask, how does one update from 1.1 to 1.1.2	21:56
timoph	lbt: so what's missing from making the MeeGo "extras" a reality? Are there restrictions on what can be build there (i.e. ffmpeg)?	21:57
smoku	gandhijee, backup /home, install 1.2, restore /home	21:57
gabrbedd	gandhijee: 1.1 shipped with the "updates" repository enabled (as far as I know)	21:57
gabrbedd	gandhijee: So, if you have it installed, you just need to update your packages.	21:58
lbt	timoph: so Extras is now called Apps	21:58
gabrbedd	gandhijee: I'm a command line junkie... so I usually do it with zypper:	21:58
lbt	and it is almost up and running	21:58
timoph	cool	21:58
lbt	the only target is MeeGo :)	21:58
gabrbedd	sudo zypper refresh && sudo zypper up	21:58
lbt	not MeeGo+Surrounds (yet)	21:58
timoph	it's a start	21:58
lbt	importantly ... not MeeGo+Apps either	21:58
gabrbedd	gandhijee: You can confirm that you have the updates repos installed by doing `zypper repos`	21:59
lbt	so you can't upload a dependency and build against it	21:59
lbt	(you could in Extras)	21:59
timoph	ah	21:59
gandhijee	gabrbedd: one sec i will check	21:59
lbt	yeah	21:59
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lbt	so Surrounds needs a couple of things ... I like Stskeeps' idea	21:59
gabrbedd	RST38h: Look, whether MeeGo's goals are a failure or not... those are the goals that I came for.	21:59
alterego	What are those goals again?	22:00
gabrbedd	RST38h: Hopefully, there will be some good surprises during/after the conference. But I just don't know.	22:00
gabrbedd	alterego: ^^	22:00
gandhijee	gabrbedd: so if the update repo's are available., it automatically pushes up to 1.1.4?	22:00
alterego	I came here because MeeGo was the only option after Maemo	22:00
gabrbedd	gandhijee: Yeah... whatever the latest 1.1.x is.	22:00
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gandhijee	gabrbedd: is there a way to roll back to the 1.1.2 version?	22:01
RST38h	gabrbedd:I.e. these are your personal wishes, not the actual goals pursued by main Meego endorsers?	22:01
gabrbedd	gandhijee: Probably not.	22:01
npm	lbt: where would packages i normally get from RPMFusion go in extras: gstreamer-plugins-bad-nonfree-0.10.18-1.fc13.i686 gstreamer-plugins-bad-free-0.10.20-3.fc14.i686 gstreamer-plugins-bad-0.10.20-3.fc14.1.i686 gstreamer-plugins-ugly-0.10.16-2.fc14.i686 ...	22:01
gandhijee	ok	22:01
gabrbedd	RST38h: And /those/ goals are??	22:01
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gandhijee	awsome my meego can't apparently apply patches	22:02
alterego	Also remember, that you shouldn't believe everything "they" tell you ;)	22:02
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lbt	npm: I am not yet aware of any restrictions on the OBS ... I mumble about it from time to time	22:02
alterego	Nokia, Intel, whoever, doesn't matter what they say, most of the time their course veers and moves and they don't tell us.	22:03
lbt	feel free to attract the attention of lawyers if you think that's a good idea	22:03
timoph	:)	22:03
alterego	Develop things behind closed doors and dump rather large decisions on us.	22:03
alterego	But still ..	22:03
npm	lbt, in that case, build a scraper to grab all SRPMs from RPMFUsion and put them on OBS	22:03
npm	:-)	22:03
lbt	npm: read my blog to explain why I'll reject that	22:04
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lbt	(for Surrounds)	22:04
RST38h	gabrbedd: Dunno, google?	22:04
lbt	(you of course may follow any futile course you like ;) )	22:04
lbt	npm: the reason is ....	22:04
npm	i already have enough of those	22:04
lbt	porting vs maintaining	22:04
npm	ah, well those wouldn't be "ported" until they got enough votes that they actually work	22:05
lbt	one is the grab and chuck approach ... zigbee is doing that	22:05
lbt	it's ... not helpful IMHO	22:05
lbt	the other is to maintain ... harder work, less glory	22:05
lbt	OTOH	22:05
lbt	IF we can find another distro that we can partner with	22:06
lbt	rpm based, maintains pkgs, security tracking etc	22:06
npm	let RPMFusion maintain. we just maintain the translation table from one oS to the other	22:06
lbt	uses OBS ? :)	22:06
lbt	then maybe we can delegate maintaining to them	22:06
lbt	npm: yes... but we need to do it in a managed way .... it should be a partnership	22:07
gabrbedd	RST38h: So you give up.	22:07
lbt	then we can fast-track the porting	22:07
gabrbedd	?	22:07
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npm	agree. since MeeGo is RPM based, it would be cool for RPMFusion to get support from both fedora and meego	22:07
lbt	providing certain rules are followed	22:07
lbt	I personally favour openSuse ... for obvious reasons	22:07
npm	but RPMFusion uses whatever fedora uses and not OBS	22:08
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Venemo	npm, koji?	22:08
lbt	although I feel they are not at the same level as fedora	22:08
Venemo	lbt, "obvious reasons"?	22:08
lbt	OBS is one	22:08
lbt	zypper	22:08
lbt	other shared tools and processes	22:08
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lbt	they have more to gain than fedora	22:08
npm	lbt: they actually share a lot of people/control... RPMFusion is really just fedora's legal out	22:08
Venemo	I was wondering, what makes OBS better than Koji?	22:09
lbt	we use it	22:09
timoph	:)	22:09
lbt	nothing is better than anything else.... but the cost of change is relevant	22:09
lbt	feel free to suggest to Anas that MeeGo moves to Koji ... :D	22:10
Venemo	why would I want to do that?	22:10
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Venemo	OBS works fine for MeeGo, doesn't it?	22:10
lbt	entertain the rest of us?	22:10
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alterego	Heh	22:11
lbt	hey, it's friday!	22:11
alterego	I want tracker back	22:11
timoph	final 1.2 RC not available yet?	22:11
* RST38h gives alterego some tracker		22:11
lbt	alterego: c.obs ?	22:11
npm	well the real question is does OBS support some of the useful parts of koji, like voting on updates before promoting, etc.	22:12
lbt	yes	22:12
lbt	if you link it with BOSS	22:12
alterego	npm: obs can be augmented quite easily, the front end is a rails app :)	22:12
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npm	for some value of easily	22:13
lbt	actually I'm pretty sure that OBS+BOSS is more flexible than most (any) similar build systems	22:13
npm	it appears quite full featured and next-generation	22:13
alterego	Heh	22:13
alterego	Meh, new build systems are invented daily :P	22:14
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RST38h	alterego: faster than new audio frameworks!	22:14
alterego	Almost certainly	22:14
npm	what new audio frameworks have been introduced?	22:14
RST38h	npm: Phonon	22:15
npm	old	22:15
npm	?	22:15
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npm	already using it....	22:15
gabrbedd	Don't forget pulseaudio	22:16
RST38h	npm: http://yokozar.org/blog/content/linuxaudio.png	22:16
RST38h	npm: here, you can throw up now.	22:17
npm	i don't : i run pasuspender early and often	22:17
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Venemo	RST38h, that situation has been getting better since october 2008	22:17
gabrbedd	Somebody also told me about "RoarAudio" recently.	22:17
gandhijee	will the chrome browser in meego not let you browse https pages or something? it keeps saying meego's HTTPS cert is not valid	22:18
RST38h	Venemo: YOu mean, since the invented PA and Phonon? :)	22:18
npm	gabrbedd: almost as complicated as what we have http://code.google.com/p/ytd-meego/wiki/CitizenJournalismWithYoutubeDirectForMeego#N900_Platform_and_Hardware_Overview	22:18
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gabrbedd	Venemo: I agree, it is getting better. You can draw a big X through a lot of those today.	22:19
gabrbedd	gandhijee: Double check the clock on your system.	22:19
gabrbedd	gandhijee: Usually when that happens to me it's because my time/date is grossly wrong.	22:20
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gandhijee	gabrbedd: ok thanks.	22:21
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npm	gandhijee: also, the meego cert has some wonkiness in qt webkit browsers? http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-dev/2011-May/482965.html	22:22
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gandhijee	oh awesome	22:27
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hell	does some vendor create a navigation system for meego?	22:29
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hell	i want to try build an o/s car pc system, meego seems like the best solution for UI. But i don't know, how to mix it with navigation smoothly	22:35
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gabrbedd	hell: You should probably ask on meego-ivi@ I don't think there's many IVI folks doing IRC.	22:38
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lcuk	gabrbedd, that is because you should not IRC whilst driving.	22:39
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gabrbedd	lcuk: That's funny. Reminds me of time th	22:39
hell	i thought, that navigation is not only ivi, all smartphones will do it	22:39
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hell	lcuk: )	22:40
thiago_home	will?	22:40
hell	thiago_home: all new devices have gps, even old n810)	22:40
lcuk	having GPS is not the same as navigation program	22:41
gabrbedd	hell: you said "i want to try build an o/s car pc system" -- so you should probably ask the guys who actually do that... since they can point you in the right direction.	22:42
lcuk	I remember a mapping/routing program working on the amiga	22:42
lcuk	it showed a map you gave start and end locations then it did the calculation of routes visually	22:42
lcuk	was great to see	22:42
hell	gabrbedd: i will, in future, of course. Asked only for info.	22:43
RST38h	Amiga had an OCR-based Cut&Paste	22:43
RST38h	After THAT, Amiga having mapping software nolonger sounds unnatural	22:44
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mikhas	are regular end users of end products supposed to actively use the MeeGo forums?	23:18
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lcuk	mikhas, yes	23:18
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mikhas	then we should try to get a subforum or the like for the VKB there	23:19
mikhas	or at least a dedicated thread	23:20
mikhas	I cannot spend too much time hunting down VKB posts there	23:20
mikhas	which process would I have to follow this time?	23:20
lcuk	is that because of multiple keywords?	23:20
mikhas	well, it seems I dont know how to check for new stuff/get notified?	23:20
lcuk	well if you have a few threads already	23:21
lcuk	can you put links	23:21
lcuk	for the forum threads	23:21
xxiao	is there a meego-tv repository somewhere?	23:21
xxiao	or, is there a way for me to checkout meego sources to have a try?	23:21
lcuk	posting in one gets you subscribed to it	23:21
lcuk	if there is a thread you are not posting in, but want to know when new posts happen	23:22
lcuk	you can click "thread tools" menu at the top	23:22
mikhas	can I "close" threads?	23:22
lcuk	and then click Subscribe to this thread	23:22
lcuk	I think so, I have never been a moderator	23:22
lcuk	so dont know how	23:22
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* lcuk cheers jake up with an easy printout of a train :)		23:25
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