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| keks-n | Wow. I just added some includes and it continued compiling | 00:02 |
|---|---|---|
| lcuk | keks-n, same as lots of things | 00:03 |
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| akk | Anybody use QWebView? I'm having trouble getting it to work, looking for an example that definitely works on MeeGo. | 05:01 |
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| iekku | morning | 07:39 |
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| dm8tbr | mood groaning | 08:34 |
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| _|Nix|_ | Hi! Is there a file in the image that contains the version of the image? i.e., is there a file that contains, for example, meego-tablet-ia32-pinetrail-1.1.99.4.20110426.4 ? | 09:22 |
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| keks-n | Hi. Is it possible to compile the kernel in such way, that it will use USB as a tty? | 10:45 |
| dm8tbr | keks-n: you mean for the boot console? | 10:47 |
| dm8tbr | or just as a TTY where you can bind a getty to? | 10:47 |
| Stskeeps | wassupnari: how's the multitouch going? | 10:47 |
| wassupnari | It works perfectly :D | 10:48 |
| wassupnari | Thanks ! | 10:48 |
| Stskeeps | excellent :) | 10:48 |
| wassupnari | yeah, but we are trying to test another device, | 10:48 |
| wassupnari | does mtev driver supports xserver version of 1.64? | 10:48 |
| keks-n | >>you mean for the boot console | 10:49 |
| keks-n | Yep. It prints the output too fast | 10:49 |
| Stskeeps | wassupnari: probably a bit too old | 10:49 |
| keks-n | Or anything for qemu that can change the kernel commandline without recompiling it | 10:49 |
| dm8tbr | keks-n: I've seen experimental patches to enable kernel console support but wouldn't recommend them | 10:49 |
| wassupnari | Stskeeps : yeah, i know. But our HW acceleration is working on that version, so.. | 10:50 |
| keks-n | Ok, will try to find a way of warm recompile with only cmdline changed | 10:50 |
| wassupnari | Stskeeps : possibly.. it might not supported, right? | 10:50 |
| Stskeeps | it doesn't have xinput2 in 1.6 to my knowledge | 10:51 |
| thiago_home | wassupnari: you should upgrade to 1.9 | 10:51 |
| wassupnari | Stskeeps : oh, i see | 10:51 |
| * thiago_home wants 1.11 in MeeGo 1.3 | 10:51 | |
| keks-n | BTW, it ignores initrd= option | 10:51 |
| Stskeeps | keks-n: usb serial as tty won't work | 10:51 |
| wassupnari | Stskeeps : yeah, and i also working on virtual keyboard.. | 10:51 |
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| wassupnari | Stskeeps : it is quite "too slow", do you know why? | 10:52 |
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| Stskeeps | wassupnari: might be something about self-composition not being enabled, but i can't be sure | 10:52 |
| wassupnari | Stskeeps : okay, thanks | 10:53 |
| Stskeeps | wassupnari: btw, let your release engineers know that armv7l is gone for meego 1.2, only armv7hl will be there | 10:53 |
| dm8tbr | keks-n: hm, doesn't that uboot thing also work in qemu? that would help with the cmdline | 10:54 |
| wassupnari | okay :) | 10:54 |
| keks-n | I'm not sure about it | 10:54 |
| keks-n | I have only the flasher and the image of NAND | 10:54 |
| keks-n | Does u-boot can be flashed from the desktop? | 10:55 |
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| keks-n | Lol, I've compiled it without initrd support | 11:03 |
| keks-n | Certainly it ignores initrd parameter | 11:03 |
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| cos^ | does anyone remember where maemo.org password recovery form is hidden? | 11:20 |
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| lcuk | cos^, ask on maemo, or did you make a typo? | 11:29 |
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| lcuk | so now that it seems bug 13833 is fixed and submitted to T:T, Sage how do I check the related SR#16527, do these have a weblink to read about them? | 11:32 |
| MeeGoBot | Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13833 maj, High, ---, ext-kimmo.jukarainen, RESO FIXED, N900 operating at 500mhz, 16% slower than Maemo | 11:33 |
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| eskil | good morning, good people! | 11:33 |
| Stskeeps | goodmorning | 11:34 |
| lcuk | morning eskil | 11:34 |
| eskil | I was thinking about how an "app store" could be implemented in Meego.. something like the Saab Iqon.. | 11:35 |
| eskil | What do you guys think of using RPM as a foundation for such a system? | 11:35 |
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| eskil | I mean, RPM is already on the platform and provides a lot of nice stuff out of the box | 11:38 |
| lcuk | eskil, I thought the native packaging format was .deb? | 11:38 |
| eskil | imagine something like the GUI for aptitude they use in Ubuntu | 11:38 |
| Stskeeps | eskil: you should look into the MeeGo Apps work and OCS | 11:38 |
| Stskeeps | we have packagekit, fwiw | 11:38 |
| eskil | lcuk: perhaps, but RPM comes with MeeGo IVI and it works fine :) | 11:38 |
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| eskil | Stskeeps: in the wiki? | 11:38 |
| Stskeeps | eskil: for instance | 11:38 |
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| Stskeeps | http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_Apps/sprint | 11:39 |
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| eskil | Stskeeps: thank you. | 11:40 |
| Stskeeps | eskil: so your interest is app store in IVI? | 11:40 |
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| lcuk | eskil, rpm is the native universal packaging format across meego, you suggesting to use it for a store would be the normal expected format anyway (the deb comment I made was joke) | 11:40 |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, :D Drive through. | 11:41 |
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| eskil | Stskeeps: kind of, i'm working on my bachelors thesis | 11:42 |
| lcuk | "Hello, can I take your order please" "Yes, a big mac, fries, milkshake and a hannah montana screensaver" | 11:42 |
| Stskeeps | eskil: ah | 11:42 |
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| lcuk | ahh if ad-hoc was de-facto that would actually be viable | 11:43 |
| eskil | the theme/topic is something like "third party software security on <some kind of system>" | 11:43 |
| Stskeeps | eskil: then you'll want meego-security-discussion@ mailing list | 11:43 |
| eskil | oh, that one i have missed. i only subscribe to the IVI list.. | 11:44 |
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| Sage | lcuk: https://build.meego.com/request/show/16527 | 11:45 |
| lcuk | Sage, thanks, but on that page it says: | 11:46 |
| lcuk | Can't get diff for request: | 11:46 |
| lcuk | Trunk/kernel-adaptation-n900/45baa40ed18a9e623b535164e6115a13: not in rep | 11:46 |
| Sage | lcuk: well, source/destination are not valid anymore I guess. Not sure if it can be retrieved somehow. You can see the submit or part of it in the meego-commits ML | 11:47 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: gmail search on meego-commits@ is what i usually do | 11:47 |
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| lcuk | Sage, Stskeeps thanks. but what I was wondering was into which builds this T:T patch has ended up as for now? | 11:48 |
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| lcuk | I can bootup an old build and try to run some tests of some sort, then one of the new ones and see if tests are better | 11:49 |
| lcuk | or is this patch only in T:T for now? | 11:50 |
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| eskil | Stskeeps: the origial issue which led me to the RPM idea was how I could ensure software authenticity.. The various linux package managers seemed to have solved the problem and since meego is based on linux i.. | 11:52 |
| Sage | lcuk: I'm not entirely sure. But day after the commit is accepted to T:T or T I would say for daily images and a week after submit accepted in T | 11:52 |
| Stskeeps | eskil: right - look at the discussion there :) it contains many of those elements | 11:53 |
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| lcuk | ok sage, so given a specific SR# and patchset, what would be the best way to find out if it is included on an image? is it a case of checking installed versions of components? | 11:54 |
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| Sage | what is the SR# ? | 11:55 |
| lcuk | <Sage> lcuk: https://build.meego.com/request/show/16527 | 11:55 |
| lcuk | though I just worded the question in the general sense because I know a lot of people wonder about this phase of the process | 11:56 |
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| jsmith | i didn't understand the meego license. does anyone have any idea about it? | 11:58 |
| Sage | I would say that in T:T daily since Apr 20th, Trunk daily since Apr 29th and Weekly in about this friday or so :) | 11:58 |
| Stskeeps | jsmith: i can talk about a brief overview - what problems do you have? | 11:59 |
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| jsmith | is it dual license?? | 11:59 |
| Stskeeps | jsmith: so, two parts you need to consider: one, software license (ie, the licenses for the software) and trademark license (are you allowed to use MeeGo trademark) | 12:00 |
| Stskeeps | jsmith: software license is like many other linux distributions, a lot of different open source licenses | 12:00 |
| Sage | lcuk: ^ | 12:00 |
| lcuk | Sage, ok so based on that general idea - todays daily testing -de image (which is based on 0428 daily) would not yet include the patch, but in a couple of days it should hopefully? | 12:00 |
| jsmith | what does it exactly mean?/ | 12:01 |
| lcuk | and we can feel a nice boost in the already nice feeling -de :) | 12:01 |
| lcuk | mg-handset-armv7nhl-n900-de-acceptance-1.1.99.5.20110428.10.DE.2011-05-02.1-mmcblk0p.raw.bz2 | 12:01 |
| Stskeeps | jsmith: means meego is open source and you can use it as you want :) | 12:01 |
| Stskeeps | (under the open source conditions) | 12:01 |
| jsmith | isn't a dual license?? | 12:01 |
| Stskeeps | what do you mean by 'dual license'? | 12:02 |
| Sage | lcuk: no, that includes it already because we copied the kernel to the de project | 12:02 |
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| Stskeeps | jsmith: https://meego.com/about/licensing-policy is a good page to help understand it | 12:02 |
| Stskeeps | jsmith: it's a free platform everyone can use to build products with, no commercial license needed or available | 12:02 |
| jsmith | means some of part it's part in open souce and some in proprietory | 12:03 |
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| Stskeeps | jsmith: right - the meego.com platform is OSS. some parts like graphics might be meego trademark protected, but is replacable with your own | 12:03 |
| Stskeeps | jsmith: so you don't need any closed source parts to run meego, but your hardware might need them | 12:04 |
| Sage | lcuk: we override the meego kernel a while back because we wanted to get the changes in faster to get them properly tested. | 12:04 |
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| lcuk | Sage, lol ok so the meego -de is running mostly daily testing, but with the nice upgraded kernel only or are there other forward ported items? | 12:05 |
| Sage | lcuk: https://build.pub.meego.com/project/packages?project=Project%3ADE%3ATrunk | 12:06 |
| Sage | some :) | 12:06 |
| Stskeeps | jsmith: what specific worries do you have? | 12:06 |
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| jsmith | what is meant by MeeGo User Experience Subsystem Software? | 12:06 |
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| Stskeeps | jsmith: it basically means that anything in the user interface has to be permissive license, as in, you don't have to open source the modifications | 12:07 |
| Stskeeps | and can build a differentiated product this way | 12:07 |
| Stskeeps | the exact license will be in each package | 12:08 |
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| Sage | lcuk: from those packages it is quite easy to go to the sources and see what is the diff to the meego.com. | 12:10 |
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| jsmith | k.. now my doubts are almost cleared | 12:10 |
| lcuk | Sage, yes I am looking around, thanks \o | 12:10 |
| lcuk | generic-backgrounds package is lacking package description | 12:11 |
| jsmith | if i have any doubts further more will ask on irc | 12:11 |
| lcuk | I should file a bug | 12:11 |
| jsmith | Thanks!! :) | 12:11 |
| lcuk | https://build.pub.meego.com/package/show?package=generic-backgrounds&project=Project%3ADE%3ATrunk | 12:11 |
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| lcuk | hmm same for fastinit | 12:12 |
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| * lcuk files bugs | 12:13 | |
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| Stskeeps | lcuk: package descriptions are messed even in Trunk and not much use | 12:13 |
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| lcuk | https://build.pub.meego.com/package/show?package=meego-handset-configs&project=Project%3ADE%3ATrunk | 12:13 |
| lcuk | well Stskeeps, seeing "LONG DESCRIPTION | 12:14 |
| lcuk | GOES | 12:14 |
| lcuk | HERE" instead of proper description is odd | 12:14 |
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| Stskeeps | that is true, but it is also what the description is on meego.com trunk | 12:14 |
| lcuk | yes, I did not think it was a specific adaption/-de issue | 12:15 |
| Stskeeps | in practice, those should be autogenerated from .spec files | 12:15 |
| Stskeeps | so consider making a script to propose those | 12:15 |
| lcuk | yeah | 12:15 |
| Sage | there is already | 12:15 |
| lcuk | but if the spec file does not include it, I guess it cannot use it | 12:15 |
| Sage | or at least at some point osc asked me that if I want to put desc from .spec to the package. | 12:16 |
| Stskeeps | then it's bad packaging | 12:16 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 12:16 |
| lcuk | indeed Stskeeps | 12:16 |
| Sage | Stskeeps: .deb package ;) | 12:16 |
| lcuk | deb has short and long descriptions :P | 12:16 |
| Stskeeps | heh | 12:16 |
| lcuk | and afaik you have to include both | 12:16 |
| lcuk | otherwise dpkg will not build it | 12:16 |
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| lcuk | ooooh now this is nice, just spotted a mail on the meego-handset ML pointing to: http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/QA/Performance | 12:20 |
| lcuk | [Meego-handset] MeeGo 1.2 DE for N900 - UX Response Time measurements (wk17) http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-handset/2011-May/000390.html | 12:20 |
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| deepa1 | hi was working in meego and suddenly the netbook is unusable. if i restart am not able to get GUI, | 12:55 |
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| deepa1 | if i go into terminal more (C+A+F1) i can login but it frequently switches back to other term | 12:55 |
| deepa1 | is there any quick solution to recover ? | 12:56 |
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| deepa1 | i have nt installed any thing strange (new packages) | 12:57 |
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| deepa1 | anybody has come across this? | 12:57 |
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| eg81 | deepa1: you need to check /var/log/messages and/or Xorg.log.0 | 12:59 |
| deepa1 | right.. DBus is gone | 13:01 |
| deepa1 | that is what /var/log/messages shows | 13:01 |
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| Venemo | vgrade, ping | 13:12 |
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| deepa1 | eg81, in Xorg.log.0 i see this error: kernel/sched.c invoked rcu_dereferenc_check() without protection | 13:29 |
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| deepa1 | eg81, do you know how to recover from this? | 13:30 |
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| _|Nix|_ | pohly: Ping! | 13:44 |
| pohly | pong | 13:44 |
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| deepa1 | hi can anyone help on the issue? | 13:48 |
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| deepa1 | is there a solution to recover other than complete reinstallation? | 13:48 |
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| wassupnari | Stskeeps : hello, are you there? | 14:08 |
| Stskeeps | heya | 14:08 |
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| wassupnari | still testing virtual keyboard. :) If i run the meego-im-ui-server with -use-self-composition option, | 14:10 |
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| wassupnari | then keyboard input works very fast | 14:10 |
| Stskeeps | excellent | 14:10 |
| lcuk | mikhas, araujo ^ | 14:10 |
| lcuk | aapo too \o | 14:10 |
| wassupnari | but if i run the mcompositor, then.. screen crashes with white frame. | 14:10 |
| wassupnari | Stskeeps : do you know why? | 14:11 |
| Stskeeps | wassupnari: hmm, do you have hw acceleration on that device? | 14:11 |
| wassupnari | Stskeeps : yes, HW acceleration | 14:11 |
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| Stskeeps | wassupnari: please get a backtrace/gdb for mcompositor crash | 14:12 |
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| wassupnari | Stskeeps : hm.. i mean.. the screen turned white. | 14:14 |
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| Stskeeps | wassupnari: hmm | 14:15 |
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| Stskeeps | wassupnari: rpm -qa | grep mcompositor | 14:15 |
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| saidinesh | pohly: http://techbase.kde.org/Projects/PIM/Akonadi | 14:16 |
| saidinesh | m almost done with my exams (hopefully :D ) | 14:17 |
| wassupnari | Stskeeps : i have meegotouch-compositor, and i tested meego-ux-compositor, too. | 14:17 |
| wassupnari | Stskeeps : but i still have problem... | 14:17 |
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| lcuk | wassupnari, we know you have them, I think Stskeeps meant for you to just show the versions, it helps with diagnosis | 14:18 |
| saidinesh | although pohly, that architecture diagram seems to be a little bit outdated, | 14:18 |
| saidinesh | i think it still holds good | 14:18 |
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| wassupnari | lcuk : oh, then i have 0.8.5 version | 14:19 |
| Stskeeps | wassupnari: let's file a bug about it - it sounds like an actual issue in the compositor so | 14:19 |
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| wassupnari | Stskeeps : ah, okay :) thanks thou. | 14:21 |
| saidinesh | also i will probably write a pkg-build for arch linux (my ubuntu broked down yesterday), and since it is one of the most bleeding edge distros out here, many of those users will be easily supported | 14:22 |
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| Stskeeps | wassupnari: that it self-composites fast is a good sign however - did you start mcompositor before or after? | 14:24 |
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| wassupnari | Stskeeps : start after.. | 14:27 |
| Stskeeps | ok, try it before | 14:28 |
| wassupnari | Stskeeps : actually, i tried both :) | 14:28 |
| Stskeeps | ah, ok | 14:28 |
| Stskeeps | had to check ;) | 14:28 |
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| wassupnari | Stskeeps : okay :) | 14:28 |
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| alterego | I'm confused, how come MTF is removed from 1.2 apidocs? | 14:35 |
| alterego | What a mess .. | 14:35 |
| Stskeeps | isn't an API to recommend to write for | 14:35 |
| w00t_ | presumably because the aim is to discourage people using it | 14:35 |
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| alterego | Yes, I get that, but the fact it's there .. | 14:35 |
| alterego | And I Want to view api docs | 14:35 |
| w00t_ | it's arguably a bigger mess to keep it there and having people constantly asking "hey, should I use this? if not, why is it there" | 14:36 |
| alterego | And I can't because they're not in 1.2 apidocs .. | 14:36 |
| w00t_ | just look at git-tip/mtf-old/mtf/ | 14:36 |
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| alterego | I'm not even sure MTF is what I want tbh | 14:36 |
| alterego | I probably need to do this in X11 | 14:37 |
| w00t_ | what are you trying to do? | 14:37 |
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| mikhas | wassupnari, Stskeeps: sounds like frame stealing issue to me | 14:37 |
| mikhas | or rather, window redirection mess | 14:37 |
| alterego | w00t_: go to the task switched in handset | 14:39 |
| alterego | s/switched/switcher/ | 14:39 |
| infobot | alterego meant: w00t_: go to the task switcher in handset | 14:39 |
| alterego | Basically, implement the home button. | 14:39 |
| w00t_ | alterego: i would hope that it has some form of interface to request that (dbus, etc) | 14:40 |
| w00t_ | if not, try to just minimize your window, and see if that works - since no other windows will be active, you may get lucky | 14:40 |
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| mikhas | wassupnari, what if you use mcompositor but cut all mcompositor/keyboard? | 14:44 |
| mikhas | wassupnari, try "meego-im-uiserver -use-self-composition -manual-redirection -bypass-wm-hint" | 14:44 |
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| alterego | Weird, they used ruby for MTF testing | 14:48 |
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| wassupnari | mikhas : oh, i saw your msg now, i'll try that! thanx :) | 15:02 |
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| mikhas | alterego, for the UI tests, yes | 15:03 |
| mikhas | it's called TDriver | 15:03 |
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| wassupnari | mikhas : I tested vkb, now the screen crash problem is not shown, but working very slow again.. | 15:13 |
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| mikhas | wassupnari, add -software | 15:16 |
| mikhas | we have a full array of counter measures for graphics problems in our stuff :-) | 15:17 |
| wassupnari | mikhas : okay, wait a sec | 15:17 |
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| wassupnari | mikhas : hm.. still ui frame crashes.. but it's getting faster with -software option | 15:22 |
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| mikhas | wassupnari, broken GLES then? | 15:24 |
| wassupnari | mikhas Stskeeps : we are using NVIDIA Tegra with armv7hl, and if i using 'mcompositor', then our system become very slow.. | 15:24 |
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| wassupnari | mikhas : i don't think so.. i think there is some problem with window managing.. | 15:25 |
| Stskeeps | that's with hw acceleration? | 15:25 |
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| wassupnari | Stskeeps : yes | 15:25 |
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| wassupnari | Stskeeps, mikhas : Do you guys using some.. special lauch option when you start mcompositor? | 15:26 |
| Stskeeps | wassupnari: readelf -A /usr/lib/libGLESv2.so.1 please | 15:26 |
| Stskeeps | wassupnari: i have a theory on what might be wrong | 15:27 |
| wassupnari | Stskeeps : okay, give me a sec. | 15:27 |
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| wassupnari | Stskeeps : i have only libGLESv2.so.2 and this is the result : pastie.org/1856464 | 15:31 |
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| Stskeeps | hmm. | 15:32 |
| lcuk | bacon? | 15:32 |
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| Stskeeps | wassupnari: install http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/1.1.90/1.1.99.4.20110426.4/repos/oss/armv7hl/packages/armv7hl/egl-utils-8.0.1~git60eeb7b306-1.1.armv7hl.rpm and run eglinfo from there | 15:34 |
| Stskeeps | wassupnari: so, either you have gotten custom builds from nvidia of their drivers or you're accidentially running mesa software rendering :) | 15:34 |
| Stskeeps | wassupnari: so i want to see what egl render it claims it is | 15:35 |
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| wassupnari | Stskeeps : oops, my fault. we are using armv5 now, and my colleague will test it. | 15:42 |
| wassupnari | Stskeeps : btw, i have a question. | 15:42 |
| wassupnari | Stskeeps : if i don't use hw acceleration, then how can i use mcompositor? | 15:42 |
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| Stskeeps | wassupnari: mesa's software rendering is fairly good these days is one theory. the reason i was doubting was that normal ARM binaries don't work on armv7hl (they're incompatible) | 15:44 |
| Stskeeps | wassupnari: but i don't know exactly how your acceleration is set up | 15:45 |
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| Stskeeps | so verifying that eglinfo in fact says nVidia is a good start | 15:45 |
| wassupnari | Stskeeps : okay :) | 15:46 |
| Stskeeps | wassupnari: if you try to use normal softfp arm binaries on hardfp, any function that uses floating point values will get a bad value instead :) | 15:47 |
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| Stskeeps | so that might cause weird symptoms | 15:49 |
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| wassupnari | Stskeeps : okay | 15:50 |
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| Stskeeps | ok, i have to go for today - please verify eglinfo shows the right render :) | 15:52 |
| Stskeeps | and that should help moving things along | 15:52 |
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| wassupnari | Stskeeps : okay, this is the eglinfo result : http://pastie.org/1856555 | 16:03 |
| Stskeeps | ok, that looks correct | 16:04 |
| wassupnari | Stskeeps : yeah.. i think so.. :) | 16:05 |
| Stskeeps | wassupnari: i guess this is your armv5 build? | 16:05 |
| wassupnari | Stskeeps : yes, that's right | 16:05 |
| Stskeeps | ok | 16:05 |
| Stskeeps | and that is source comparable to meego 1.1.90/1.1.99? | 16:05 |
| wassupnari | Stskeeps : 1.1.99 | 16:06 |
| Stskeeps | ok | 16:06 |
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| yoplo | are there armv5 build of meego? | 16:12 |
| Stskeeps | not officially but it's fairly easy to do one.. | 16:12 |
| Stskeeps | and it won't be official meego | 16:13 |
| wassupnari | Stskeeps : hm.. do i have to burn the new(not offecial) version of meego? | 16:14 |
| wassupnari | Stskeeps : oops, sorry. not for me :) | 16:15 |
| Stskeeps | wassupnari: i think there was some discussion about the compositor and meego input method keyboard, but file a bug with the various package versions in it and we can take it from there | 16:15 |
| Stskeeps | as it might be an actual bug not seen on n900 for instance | 16:16 |
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| wassupnari | Stskeeps : okay :) thanks for your help. Now i have to go home.. :) | 16:16 |
| Stskeeps | have a good evening | 16:16 |
| wassupnari | Stskeeps : thank you! | 16:17 |
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| Venemo | lcuk, ping | 16:55 |
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| lcuk | Yo! Venemo | 16:57 |
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| Venemo | lcuk, have you had the time to try my app in MeeGo DE? | 16:57 |
| Venemo | lcuk, just saying because I'm just about to | 16:58 |
| lcuk | No, I have been looking at other matters. | 16:58 |
| lcuk | good! | 16:58 |
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| Venemo | lcuk, that's after I finished polishing it under symbian | 16:59 |
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| lcuk | cripes, tracys big ball hurt my back. | 16:59 |
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| Venemo | lcuk, 'cripes' isn't in the dictionary. could you help me out? :P | 17:00 |
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| gabrbedd | Venemo: It's kind of a curse word, but one you can say around your mother | 17:01 |
| Venemo | aah, thanks gabrbedd | 17:02 |
| * lcuk has been rolling around on a big pink ball all weekend | 17:02 | |
| lcuk | and now my spine is all stretched and stuff | 17:02 |
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| gabrbedd | Venemo: I think it's literally derived from "Christ" | 17:02 |
| lcuk | I thought it was an Englishism for crikey! | 17:03 |
| lcuk | but whatever | 17:03 |
| gabrbedd | lcuk: All I know is what google told me. :-) | 17:03 |
| * lcuk is a few inches taller after stretching | 17:03 | |
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| lcuk | I need to find some coloured nail polish, brb | 17:06 |
| Venemo | lcuk, I'm beginning to have more and more desire to deal with MeeGo | 17:07 |
| lcuk | Venemo, as you should. | 17:07 |
| Venemo | lcuk, the Symbian SDK is so crap compared to the Maemo/MeeGo one | 17:07 |
| * lcuk ponders between pastel green or shimmering blue | 17:08 | |
| Venemo | lcuk, it takes 20 minutes for it to compile my app. | 17:08 |
| Venemo | lcuk, I am exemplarily out of my patience... | 17:08 |
| Venemo | Symbian should die, and the sooner the better. | 17:08 |
| lcuk | "meadow green" hmm | 17:08 |
| RST38h | Do not worry, it will. And so will Meego. | 17:08 |
| Venemo | RST38h, MeeGo? I don't want MeeGo to die. | 17:09 |
| ali1234 | why do you think the meego sdk is good? | 17:09 |
| RST38h | Does not matter | 17:09 |
| RST38h | Looks like Moblin will continue living on though | 17:09 |
| Venemo | ali1234, because it doesn't take 20 minutes for it to compile my app. | 17:09 |
| Venemo | RST38h, what makes you think so? | 17:09 |
| ali1234 | that's the only reason? it's fast? | 17:09 |
| Venemo | ali1234, and it's _working_ OOB | 17:09 |
| ali1234 | lol | 17:09 |
| ali1234 | if you can figure out how to install it | 17:10 |
| Venemo | ali1234, I had to reinstall the symbian sdk twice to just have it working | 17:10 |
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| Venemo | ali1234, then I had to copy-paste some .lib file from one directory to another | 17:10 |
| ali1234 | yes well symbian sdk clearly was rubbish | 17:10 |
| ali1234 | but | 17:10 |
| Venemo | ali1234, s/was/is | 17:10 |
| ali1234 | why do you think the meego sdk is better than for example, nokia qt sdk? | 17:10 |
| RST38h | Venemo: Meego = Maemo + Moblin | 17:10 |
| RST38h | Venemo: The Maemo part has been officially buried a few days ago. What is left? | 17:11 |
| Venemo | ali1234, well I'm not a huge fan of these SDKs | 17:11 |
| ali1234 | or the ios sdk, or the wp7 sdk? | 17:11 |
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| Venemo | RST38h, give me a link that says so. | 17:11 |
| Venemo | ali1234, I just have Qt Creator installed from Fedora's repo and Madde from the MeeGo SDK repo. and it's just working. | 17:11 |
| ali1234 | well, i added a bunch of repos for meego tools, all it did was screw up my OS | 17:12 |
| RST38h | Venemo: A moment | 17:12 |
| ali1234 | i much prefer a single dwnload that installs everything in a private directory | 17:12 |
| Venemo | "just working" is a huge plus when comparing to something that doesn't work. | 17:12 |
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| ali1234 | that's what all the SDKs i mentioned do | 17:12 |
| Venemo | mhm | 17:12 |
| ali1234 | they all worked fine | 17:12 |
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| Venemo | yeah, Nokia Qt SDK is also a very sensible thing | 17:12 |
| Venemo | except for its Symbian parts | 17:12 |
| ali1234 | symbian parts don't even work on linux | 17:13 |
| Venemo | yeah. | 17:13 |
| Venemo | fortunately :) | 17:13 |
| RST38h | Venemo: http://techcrunch.com/2011/04/27/nokia-to-cut-4000-jobs-worldwide-transfers-3000-symbian-jobs-to-accenture/ | 17:14 |
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| Venemo | RST38h, who the f** cares about nokia anymore? | 17:14 |
| ali1234 | RST38h: that's the reason why nokia will die, not meego | 17:14 |
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| ali1234 | meego might still die, i haven't decided about that yet | 17:15 |
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| RST38h | Venemo: Please see the formula above | 17:15 |
| * w00t_ fetches the popcorn | 17:15 | |
| lbt | ali1234: considering that AmigaDOS is still around... | 17:15 |
| Venemo | w00t_ ++ | 17:15 |
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| RST38h | lbt: AmigaOS (not DOS) | 17:15 |
| Venemo | RST38h, I don't care what nokia does. they are no way related to meego anymore. | 17:16 |
| RST38h | Venemo: Meego without Nokia is basically Moblin. | 17:16 |
| RST38h | Venemo: And yes, it will live on, indeed. | 17:16 |
| lbt | RST38h: that too | 17:16 |
| RST38h | lbt: Wouldn't call it "life" though, more like "undeath" | 17:16 |
| Venemo | RST38h, it isn't moblin anymore | 17:17 |
| lbt | hey qgil... clearly nothing's changed here :D | 17:17 |
| Venemo | RST38h, intel has just shut down most of the remaining moblin infrastructure not so long ago | 17:17 |
| qgil | lbt: hi there, changing what? | 17:17 |
| Venemo | RST38h, plus, the news you linked mention symbian. it doesn't really talk about meego | 17:17 |
| lbt | Oh, meego's still about to die... you know... the usual | 17:17 |
| lbt | *g* | 17:17 |
| w00t_ | lbt: and I was wondering what that smell was... | 17:17 |
| w00t_ | :P | 17:17 |
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| ali1234 | lbt: actually comparison to amiga is quite apt here | 17:18 |
| lbt | disruptive wasn't it :) | 17:18 |
| ali1234 | amiga was dead since about 1998, except about 10 people on the internet still refuse to admit it | 17:18 |
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| Venemo | RST38h, please don't spread FUD | 17:19 |
| qgil | lbt: ah yes - well, I rather keep myself working on MeeGo stuff rather than discussing about what could be or not | 17:19 |
| lbt | good idea... | 17:19 |
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| qgil | Venemo: hi, and I hope you enjoy flyng with us today :) | 17:20 |
| Venemo | qgil, flying? if you refer to the conference, then unfortunately not. | 17:20 |
| qgil | Venemo: I was just referring about having you here today, nothing else | 17:21 |
| Venemo | qgil, ah, okay. thank you :) | 17:21 |
| * w00t_ is starting to panic about SF arrangements | 17:21 | |
| w00t_ | I still need to organise train tickets to actually get to the airport, before they become very expensive | 17:22 |
| gabrbedd | RST38h: thiago has said: "The Register got several things wrong, but I won't say what." (paraphrased) | 17:22 |
| qgil | w00t_: do you live in Hammerfest or...? | 17:22 |
| RST38h | garbrbedd: probably notthe overall thing though :) | 17:22 |
| w00t_ | qgil: lol, no, just that the later you book, the higher they gouge on prices | 17:23 |
| qgil | gabrbedd: what is this Register URL? I'm just starting my Monday - thanks | 17:23 |
| * alterego is paniking too :P | 17:23 | |
| lcuk | qgil, morning \o how is the weather over there? | 17:23 |
| w00t_ | qgil: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/04/27/nokia_cuts_memo/ | 17:23 |
| qgil | What you would expect after May Day lcuk - if people wouldn't be obsessed about freezing AC it would be just perfect :) | 17:24 |
| lcuk | haha | 17:24 |
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| alterego | Heh | 17:24 |
| qgil | w00t_: ah, that one | 17:24 |
| alterego | qgil: http://stage.rubyx.co.uk/meego/screenshots/handset/ | 17:25 |
| alterego | qgil: dialer screenshots | 17:25 |
| alterego | I've published my code in gitorious and announced on a couple of the mls | 17:25 |
| qgil | Yes, there are wrong things in that article "but I won't say what" :) | 17:25 |
| gabrbedd | RST38h: alterego: First, believing anything Nokia says 1 year in advance.... YMMV. | 17:26 |
| alterego | gabrbedd: hrm? :P | 17:26 |
| gabrbedd | RST38h: alterego: Second, I honestly think we'll know the future of MeeGo this summer. | 17:26 |
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| Venemo | gabrbedd, what do you mean? | 17:27 |
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| alterego | I don't know why he's talking to me :) | 17:27 |
| qgil | alterego: nice! but I think I can still decipher your phone number ;) | 17:29 |
| GAN900 | gabrbedd, heck, believing anything Nokia says at all will usually lead you astray. | 17:29 |
| alterego | qgil: yeah .. | 17:29 |
| alterego | qgil: it wasn't brilliant masking :D | 17:29 |
| RST38h | alterego: Probably knows I won't buy his attempt at soothing =) | 17:29 |
| qgil | alterego: is this meant to be only cellular or also e.g. sip? | 17:29 |
| alterego | Only cellular | 17:30 |
| alterego | I want SIP in the future :) | 17:30 |
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| alterego | qgil: it's basically just exposing the correct interfaces to QML to allow people to write QML based dialer UXs | 17:30 |
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| qgil | alterego: looks good: functionality in place and then real users will tell you more, probably | 17:31 |
| alterego | qgil: the code based is a heavily refactored branch of the current handset dialer reference application. | 17:31 |
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| alterego | I think I might have the only N900 running MeeGo DE that can receive calls from power on ;) | 17:31 |
| qgil | alterego: looks like accomplishing perfectly well the mission you want for it | 17:31 |
| alterego | Yeah, I'm very pleased it's working. | 17:32 |
| gabrbedd | alterego: sorry... when you said you were panicking too, I thought you were in the RST38h FUD conversation. :-) | 17:32 |
| alterego | gabrbedd: no, panicking about SF :) | 17:32 |
| berndhs | dont worry about SF, california is going to fall in the ocean | 17:32 |
| gabrbedd | alterego: Ha ha... me, too | 17:33 |
| gabrbedd | berndhs: But that's planned for Q3 2012 | 17:33 |
| berndhs | yes at the earliest | 17:33 |
| lbt | http://m.moconews.net/article/419-nokia-ceo-elop-tablets-are-a-hard-pill-to-swallow/ | 17:33 |
| qgil | berndhs: actually the ocean will take California just as it will take your closest piece of coast | 17:34 |
| RST38h | lbt: translation: Microsoft still does not have a tablet version of WP7/WP8 | 17:34 |
| * lbt doesn't bother speculating ... too little knowledge | 17:34 | |
| w00t_ | lbt: but it's much more fun to speculate.. | 17:35 |
| RST38h | lbt: Well, it is not speculation: it is a fact that WP7 is for phones,not tabletsright now | 17:35 |
| lbt | RST38h: that I'm simply ignorant about :) | 17:35 |
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| alterego | "We have to take a uniquely Nokia perspective." ... | 17:36 |
| lbt | well, until you told me | 17:36 |
| alterego | You mean, sit and watch as the world goes by :) | 17:36 |
| lbt | yep.... purdy isn't it | 17:36 |
| lbt | all them blinkenlights | 17:36 |
| RST38h | lbt: MS Research guy has also said he is not sure if tablets are here to stay | 17:38 |
| alterego | Nothing is here to stay | 17:38 |
| GAN900 | I don't think they are | 17:38 |
| alterego | But tablets, around the 6" I reckon will be around for a long time. | 17:38 |
| RST38h | I guess he meant "staying for long enough for us tomake profit at them" | 17:39 |
| * alterego would really like a tablet device. | 17:39 | |
| alterego | That is the reason I've bough all the NIT range .. | 17:39 |
| alterego | That and I think FOSS is the future :) | 17:40 |
| alterego | I just wish MS would get swollowed up into hell. | 17:40 |
| alterego | So people (incl. me) didn't have to continue supporting them for our customers :/ | 17:40 |
| GAN900 | Medium term I think phones ala the N900 will dominate tablets. | 17:40 |
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| alterego | GAN900: I agree, but if I had the money, I would definitely have both. | 17:40 |
| * RST38h would only have a 5" phone | 17:41 | |
| RST38h | No need for more plastic | 17:41 |
| * alterego visits nokia care site to see if he can return his broken N900 | 17:41 | |
| alterego | It's lasted me over a year. | 17:41 |
| * lbt wants an phone-like device - but when it opens the screen stretches like the N900 keyboard | 17:41 | |
| alterego | I've had so many good times with it, I'm going to be really sad if they replace it with an f'ing N8 .. | 17:41 |
| GAN900 | Ultimately it's all going to be replaced by chips in your brain, though. :P | 17:41 |
| RST38h | in your gas mask | 17:42 |
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| GAN900 | alterego, waiting until the Next Big Thing is announced and see if they take pity on you? | 17:42 |
| alterego | It also means I'm going to have to stall my MeeGo developments for a week or so. | 17:42 |
| alterego | Maybe I'll finally complete v1 of Columbus :D | 17:43 |
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| alterego | I heard rumours that they were running out of N900 spare parts and some people had received replacement N8s instead :/ | 17:45 |
| alterego | If that's the case, I'd want my N900 back, even without a USB port I'd rather have it than an N8 | 17:45 |
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| qgil | ivanich: I was in Odessa once! :) | 17:47 |
| Venemo | alterego ++ | 17:47 |
| alterego | :) | 17:47 |
| alterego | Venemo: now, if they wanted to send me both ;) | 17:47 |
| Venemo | alterego, heheh. | 17:48 |
| Venemo | alterego, in such a case, I'd rather ask for some money back instead of an N8. | 17:49 |
| frals | the N8 is a pretty slick devices tbh | 17:49 |
| frals | love the camera and the design of it | 17:49 |
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| frals | device* | 17:50 |
| alterego | It's not that I wouldn't mind an N8, it's that I'd rather have both N900s even if one lacks a USB port | 17:50 |
| * lcuk \o frals | 17:50 | |
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| alterego | At least until DE becomes properly usable, which isn't too far away I guess. :) | 17:51 |
| frals | o/ lcuk | 17:51 |
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| lcuk | frals, how are you today? | 17:56 |
| lcuk | oooh found my mozilla lanyard :D | 17:57 |
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| GAN900 | frals, slick or not, it's useless as anything but a toy. | 17:58 |
| lcuk | and a phone | 17:58 |
| lcuk | and a camera | 17:58 |
| lcuk | and for playing games | 17:59 |
| lcuk | etc | 17:59 |
| alterego | media player | 17:59 |
| GAN900 | lcuk, yes, see above. :) | 17:59 |
| alterego | Probably one my my biggest uses of my "mobile" is listening to audio | 17:59 |
| * lcuk enjoyed played the chopping fruit game :) | 17:59 | |
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| lcuk | strangely, qt has a bug with multitouch in some apps on the n8 | 18:00 |
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| alterego | I'm just listening to Elop talking and he talks abotu how Windows Phone makes developers and engineers excited. | 18:03 |
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| lcuk | I am sure it does alterego | 18:03 |
| * lcuk goes making a salad. | 18:03 | |
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| alterego | I have to say, I'm not particularly excited by the prospect of Windows Phone | 18:03 |
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| alterego | But then walking backwards was never something I was interested in :) | 18:05 |
| thiago | alterego: I don't know any developer who is | 18:05 |
| GAN900 | "Because we pay them lots of money!" | 18:05 |
| alterego | And jumping infront of a train is even less appealing :) | 18:05 |
| thiago | I am probably talking to the wrong crowd though | 18:05 |
| alterego | thiago: yeah, I agree there | 18:05 |
| alterego | otoh, people I have spoken to, friends family, basically end user types. Like the idea that they can get a phone that talks to their xbox | 18:06 |
| alterego | Strangely .. | 18:06 |
| gabrbedd | alterego: I'm sure that the windows fanboy devs are probably excited. But I don't hang around with those guys. | 18:06 |
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| thiago | I think people who make apps for a living are probably paying attention | 18:06 |
| thiago | not excited, but paying attention | 18:07 |
| alterego | Yeah, | 18:07 |
| berndhs | im not sure why anyone things this nokia + windows deal will work | 18:07 |
| alterego | Well, Elop seemed to indicate that he was getting excitement from CVs coming into Nokia .. | 18:07 |
| thiago | people who are hobbyists and have bought a Mac so they could develop for the iPhone aren't looking into it | 18:07 |
| thiago | they're not going to buy Windows | 18:07 |
| DawnFoster1 | ping Stskeeps (metrics) | 18:08 |
| w00t_ | moin, DawnFoster1 | 18:08 |
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| alterego | Hahah | 18:09 |
| alterego | Elop "Now MS Windows Phono ecosystem is #3 after the announcement of Nokia WP7 migration" | 18:10 |
| thiago | oh, yeah, I remember him saying that. But third in a 3-man race isn't a very good story. | 18:10 |
| alterego | Yeah, exactly :D | 18:11 |
| thiago | he came to the office here on Friday | 18:11 |
| w00t_ | especially not when one of those men is a single device | 18:11 |
| alterego | Heh | 18:11 |
| alterego | w00t_: well, that isn't entirely bad, as listening to some Android devs and how frustrating it is targetting multiple device profiles. | 18:12 |
| alterego | iPhone and iPad though, two devices really :P | 18:12 |
| w00t_ | only one of those is a mobile phone | 18:12 |
| gabrbedd | thiago: What did he say? "Since I've pretty much deprecated everyone's job... I just thought you'd like to shake my hand!" | 18:12 |
| alterego | I'd like to get a job as Elops receptionist, for obvious reasons :) | 18:13 |
| gabrbedd | alterego: so you could bury him at sea? | 18:14 |
| alterego | Heh | 18:14 |
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| alterego | No, innocently modifying his "memos" ... :) | 18:14 |
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| gabrbedd | :-) | 18:16 |
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| berndhs | well, those special forces *are* looking for a new target... | 18:17 |
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| alterego | Heh | 18:19 |
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| alterego | Better make it an easy one this time, 10 years to find your man must be pretty depressing | 18:19 |
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| gabrbedd | alterego: Imagine the performance reviews over the 9 years. "Well, let's see... your goals this year were... hmmm... just one. Kill Osama. Did you do that? I don't think you did. NEEDS IMPROVEMENT." | 18:21 |
| alterego | Hahah | 18:21 |
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| gabrbedd | alterego: come to think of it... some tricky bugs feel that way. "Hmmm... I just spent 40 hours on a bug that was fixed with 1 line of code. *sigh*" | 18:25 |
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| zehjotkah | good morning. | 18:25 |
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| berndhs | i should go vote today | 18:35 |
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| * npm notices why no new updates... need to change oss repo to 'http://download.meego.com/snapshots/latest-1.2/repos/oss/ia32/packages/' | 18:41 | |
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| Stskeeps | DawnFoster: sent mail to myself to remember | 18:41 |
| DawnFoster | Stskeeps: sweet, thanks! | 18:41 |
| sabotage | X-Fade: lbt says I need to talk to you about SR'ing stratch | 18:43 |
| sabotage | X-Fade: what Project would you like me to SR it to? | 18:44 |
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| alterego | sabotage: did you see my ml post? :) | 18:45 |
| sabotage | alterego: not yet... just getting started on my email | 18:45 |
| alterego | okay ;) | 18:45 |
| alterego | (bloody part time workers) :P | 18:46 |
| alterego | I'm suprised there isn't an "Osama" day in America though | 18:47 |
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| sabotage | seriously... | 18:48 |
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| GAN900 | Just a silly distraction from real issues. Like spending cuts. . . . | 18:49 |
| sabotage | I turned on the TV last night to get to my Netflix queue, and was shocked at the insane coverage and behavior of my own country men at the news | 18:49 |
| RST38h | Hey, it is lulz | 18:50 |
| alterego | Yeah, was a bit much seeing loads of people gathered outside the white house acting all doped up .. | 18:50 |
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| RST38h | Americans absolutely love lulz, what else do you want them to do? Go to a mall and buy stuff? | 18:50 |
| alterego | Lets have a massive party because we killed someone :/ | 18:50 |
| sabotage | don't get me wrong, I'm satisfied that he's been eliminated (not happy mind you), but this partying and celebration is just crazy | 18:50 |
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| RST38h | Asgood a reason as any, if you ask me | 18:51 |
| alterego | Heh | 18:51 |
| sabotage | lbt: is X-Fade around? | 18:52 |
| sabotage | he never ponged my ping on Friday | 18:52 |
| GAN900 | alterego, well, I dunno if you can connect with it until you have friends and relatives affected by it. | 18:52 |
| GAN900 | But I think that's mostly about politics. | 18:53 |
| alterego | I think we're all affected by it. | 18:53 |
| GAN900 | Unfortunately, yes, we're helping Islamic extremists accomplish their goals quite readily. | 18:53 |
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| * Myrtti sighs at the lack of email | 18:54 | |
| * lcuk has green and blue n900 usb connectors now | 18:54 | |
| * lcuk would send Myrtti email :) | 18:54 | |
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| * zehjotkah goes cutting the hair | 18:58 | |
| MarcA-N | Good morning all! | 18:58 |
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| MarcA-N | The MeeGo San Francisco conference planning committee is seeking to feature select quotes/phrases on conference signage. Please help us make this a community centric event! https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/T6P5C8H | 18:58 |
| MarcA-N | We will likely be closing this survey in a couple of days | 18:59 |
| leinir | Ah yeah! i was going to dent that and forgot - thanks! :) | 18:59 |
| MarcA-N | np ;) | 18:59 |
| lcuk | MarcA-N, is the list of available submissions to be available? | 18:59 |
| MarcA-N | lcuk: sessions submissions? | 18:59 |
| lcuk | no, submissions to your survey | 18:59 |
| MarcA-N | FYI—probably a prize of some sort for chosen quotes. | 19:00 |
| lcuk | to know all the things people entered for their superhero! | 19:00 |
| MarcA-N | lcuk: ahhh, well that would be cool | 19:00 |
| leinir | Super-MeeGo-Man! ;) | 19:00 |
| lcuk | that is why I asked. | 19:00 |
| MarcA-N | I'll pass the idea around | 19:01 |
| MarcA-N | right now we only have 3 completed tho | 19:01 |
| MarcA-N | so it would be a short list! | 19:01 |
| * lcuk wonders who the other 2 people were | 19:01 | |
| MarcA-N | hah | 19:01 |
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| lcuk | MarcA-N, the requirement to fill in all details and not have a post anonymously tickbox might be what prevents some | 19:02 |
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| * lcuk wishes he had a better memory | 19:09 | |
| RST38h | lcuk: that would have made you sad and negative | 19:10 |
| RST38h | lcuk: like me. so be careful what you wish for. | 19:10 |
| lcuk | not at all RST38h | 19:11 |
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| lcuk | I see everything I have done when I flick through the graffiti wall | 19:11 |
| lcuk | it is the need to rely on tech to give me a memory I am upset about | 19:12 |
| npm | "meego -- all our licenses are long-form" | 19:12 |
| * lcuk is pleased that tech exists to help though :) | 19:13 | |
| lcuk | npm, do they have a birth video too? | 19:13 |
| npm | yes. and a linus papal blessing | 19:13 |
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| lcuk | heh | 19:13 |
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| * npm wonders what RMS thinks (i've been his chauffeur :-) ) | 19:15 | |
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| npm | so is http://download.meego.com/snapshots/1.2.80.0.20110502.81/ considered "release candidate" or what's the current status | 19:17 |
| RST38h | what is a long form? | 19:17 |
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| npm | i was alluding to all the birther stupidity | 19:18 |
| npm | "we have the birth certificate" | 19:19 |
| RST38h | ah that shit | 19:19 |
| alterego | Heh, according to facebook, San Franicisco is one of the top 100 wonders of the world | 19:20 |
| alterego | It's actually above the Grand Canyon .. | 19:20 |
| npm | the grand canyon doesn't have a pride parade :-) | 19:21 |
| alterego | Heh | 19:21 |
| alterego | Admittedly a big crack in the earths surface doesn't shout "gay" :) | 19:21 |
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| RST38h | gay or no, SF is still one of a very few cities in the US that are liveable | 19:22 |
| alterego | Yeah, I've been hearing nothing but good things about the place tbh | 19:22 |
| npm | tolerable yes, liveable is debatable | 19:22 |
| npm | (former sf resident for over a decade) | 19:22 |
| Corsac | while grand canyon isn't really liveable :) | 19:22 |
| alterego | Heh | 19:22 |
| RST38h | npm: Baltimore is tolerable. Would you live there though? | 19:22 |
| npm | john waters did :-) | 19:22 |
| RST38h | (same sentence can be constructed ofpretty much any bigUS city) | 19:23 |
| npm | san francisco is tolerable if you don't have a car :-) | 19:24 |
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| npm | it is a driving nightmare | 19:24 |
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| RST38h | npm: Timonium,MD is not Baltimore BTW (just checked the Wiki on Waters) | 19:24 |
| arfoll | for us europeans we know about driving nightmares in big cities ;-) | 19:24 |
| RST38h | npm: had no problems driving there, although parking appears to be nonexistant | 19:25 |
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| npm | yes, i've driven in london once... never again | 19:25 |
| berndhs | in Niagara we can produce traffic jams with 3 cars | 19:25 |
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| berndhs | drivers are very polite and have no idea who as right-of-way | 19:25 |
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| * zehjotkah is back | 19:26 | |
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| RST38h | npm: The worst part was the constant expectation of that freaking tram coming out of nowhere from behind the hill summit =) | 19:26 |
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| npm | btw, if you come to the meego conf, don't rent a car unless you have lots of $$$ for parking | 19:27 |
| npm | RST38h: i'm talking about the parking ... yeah, if you just need to drive through then fine... | 19:27 |
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| RST38h | npm: I do not even have lots of $$$ for the airplane ticket :) | 19:28 |
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| DawnFoster | lbt: ping | 19:31 |
| GAN900 | SF is not a fun city to drive in. | 19:31 |
| lbt | DawnFoster: pong | 19:31 |
| DawnFoster | lbt: did you know that meego-it has over 200 subscribers | 19:31 |
| lbt | thanks - no I didn't | 19:32 |
| DawnFoster | lbt: we need to stop using production lists for testing | 19:32 |
| RST38h | GAN: The only "fun" US city to drive in I have seen is Anchorage | 19:32 |
| lbt | we thought it was our team list | 19:32 |
| DawnFoster | we can set up a test list for you guys to use | 19:32 |
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| lbt | (judging by the chat last week) | 19:32 |
| DawnFoster | lbt: since all of the mailing lists are public, anyone can join then :) | 19:32 |
| RST38h | GAN: And only when the locals are riding their Subarus to work, as opposed to their Winnebagos | 19:33 |
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| GAN900 | RST38h, depends on what your minimum population density requirement is for "city" | 19:34 |
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| RST38h | Well, ok, it has to have a semblance of the downtown, I guess | 19:34 |
| RST38h | Or at least the Main Street! (usually congested) | 19:35 |
| Stskeeps | DawnFoster: http://stskeeps.subnetmask.net/irc/data/irssistats.apr2011.html | 19:36 |
| DawnFoster | Stskeeps: thanks! | 19:36 |
| lbt | mmm | 19:37 |
| Stskeeps | excellent, this graph shows i'm less active in evenings | 19:37 |
| Stskeeps | i can prove statistically i have some degree of life/rest now ;) | 19:37 |
| * lbt gets up late | 19:38 | |
| lbt | and has no life ... but still manages to Tango almost every day :D | 19:39 |
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| phaeron | lbt speaks a lot of monologues | 19:39 |
| phaeron | hehe | 19:39 |
| RST38h | OMG, I am much higher than expected there =( | 19:39 |
| lbt | phaeron: shut it ! | 19:39 |
| phaeron | ROFL | 19:39 |
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| lbt | note that Stskeeps is keeping the #meego-arm one very quiet | 19:40 |
| gabrbedd | I'M NOT YELLING!!! REALLY! I'M NOT! | 19:41 |
| gabrbedd | btw, where's timeless been lately? | 19:42 |
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| RST38h | going to interviews? :) | 19:42 |
| gabrbedd | :-) | 19:42 |
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| alterego | Wow, I'm second .. | 19:56 |
| alterego | And in this channel too :/ | 19:56 |
| berndhs | I'm first in the all-important time slot when everyone is asleep | 19:56 |
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| alterego | Heh, my nick is the 16th most used | 19:57 |
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| alterego | I'm almost aas popular as Stskeeps :P | 19:58 |
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| auke | systemd will hit Trunk today | 20:52 |
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| Stskeeps | auke: cool | 20:53 |
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| Stskeeps | auke: replacing fastinit and changing package groups? | 20:54 |
| krh | auke: already? | 20:55 |
| auke | branch for 1.2 happened | 20:55 |
| krh | oooh | 20:55 |
| auke | so Trunk is open for 1.3+ | 20:55 |
| auke | Stskeeps: fastinit is obsolete, yes | 20:56 |
| auke | we don't need any package groups, it should be transparent | 20:56 |
| auke | as a matter of fact, if you have a `trunk` box, it should upgrade | 20:56 |
| auke | but - not safe! - beware :) | 20:56 |
| auke | a reinstall will be most likely needed. | 20:56 |
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| auke | don't hold me responsible for making your box not boot | 20:57 |
| auke | you can file bugs anyway :) | 20:57 |
| Stskeeps | auke: ok, will report on how badly n900 breaks ;) | 20:57 |
| Stskeeps | any docs/guidelines on wiki? | 20:58 |
| auke | Stskeeps: I'd be very interested to know how ARM does with systemd, yes | 20:58 |
| Stskeeps | probably fine | 20:58 |
| auke | systemd's docs are really good | 20:58 |
| auke | and, our implementation will have a ton of examples on how to implement it in packaging | 20:58 |
| auke | just wait for the 25+ packages to merge | 20:58 |
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| auke | we can write a meego-systemd wiki on this later, when we have all the quirks worked out | 20:59 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 20:59 |
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| auke | Stskeeps: we have a few things to sort out | 21:01 |
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| auke | for instance, a lot of packages were not using chkconfig/sbin/service correctly | 21:02 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, we have some black sheep in n900 too | 21:03 |
| Stskeeps | if there is any problems that are arm related and unsure where to send, assign to me and i'll pass along | 21:04 |
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| alterego | systemd looks quite cool .. | 21:06 |
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| thiago_home | lots of potential | 21:12 |
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| alterego | I wonder if ubuntu will decide to use it. | 21:16 |
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| Venemo | alterego, systemd _is_ cool | 21:26 |
| Venemo | I know that for a fact because F15 uses systemd | 21:26 |
| Venemo | it reduces bootup time amazingly :) | 21:27 |
| auke | boot time will be largely unaffected | 21:28 |
| auke | I'm actually seeing no improvement - and trust me I've optimized it | 21:29 |
| Venemo | that's weird. | 21:29 |
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| auke | Stskeeps: the problem will be all the n900 daemons - I've avoided working on those | 21:29 |
| auke | Venemo: it's not weird - meego startup is highly tuned. | 21:29 |
| auke | until we can use systemd for user sessions, there won't be a gain | 21:29 |
| Venemo | auke, so you're saying that MeeGo's startup is already that optimized | 21:30 |
| auke | yes, it is | 21:30 |
| Venemo | well then, you have my congratulations for that :) | 21:30 |
| auke | what we're getting out of systemd is not a time gain, the gain is on a whole different surface | 21:30 |
| auke | we'll get scalability | 21:30 |
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| Venemo | mhm | 21:30 |
| auke | and we lose a lot of hardcoded startup code | 21:30 |
| Venemo | that sounds good | 21:31 |
| auke | imagine that: code can do just as good as weeks of tweaking :) | 21:31 |
| auke | i.e. scalability | 21:31 |
| auke | yes, it's a big bonus. | 21:31 |
| auke | we do win a lot on shutdown time :) | 21:31 |
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| Venemo | hehe | 21:33 |
| berndhs | shutdown time with systemd on F15 is about 8 minutes, because it hangs trying to shut donw mysqld | 21:35 |
| Venemo | berndhs, either report the bug or head on to #fedora-qa and tell them | 21:36 |
| auke | lol | 21:36 |
| berndhs | its reported, reportedly fixed in next version | 21:36 |
| auke | well we don't run mysqld in meego :) | 21:36 |
| ware1 | Fortunately, we won't have to focus on making all that hardcoding work in all of our various environments and instead focus resources on other issues. :-) | 21:37 |
| alterego | I should have got Jaffa to include qml dialer in MWKN | 21:37 |
| ware1 | Please, please don't run mysqld in MeeGo. | 21:37 |
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| auke | ware1: shush | 21:39 |
| auke | I'll do what I want! | 21:39 |
| Venemo | I'm sure there'll be guys who will run mysql on MeeGo, because they can. | 21:40 |
| berndhs | it makes sense for people who run apache | 21:42 |
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| auke | apache isn't an issue | 21:42 |
| auke | there are already a lot of apps out there that need "some form of db" | 21:42 |
| berndhs | or lighttpd | 21:42 |
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| alterego | Or rails | 21:43 |
| ware1 | Sure, but not by default in a MeeGo.com image. I have no issue with others who want to install it from other places. I just don't want to be responsible for the security of it in MeeGo. | 21:43 |
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| berndhs | "some form of db" should be available | 21:43 |
| npm | auke: i noticed systemd etc in the updates and noticed that pattern 'meego-core-base' has upstart-sysvinit and systemd-sysvinit | 21:43 |
| npm | is this what will cause breakage if i update? | 21:44 |
| auke | doubt it | 21:44 |
| npm | (i pointed 'oss' at http://download.meego.com/snapshots/1.2.80.0.20110502.81/repos/oss/ia32/packages ) | 21:44 |
| auke | but, those should probably go away | 21:44 |
| npm | you say " but - not safe! - beware :)" | 21:45 |
| npm | so i upgraded and it still works, so i was wondeing what i did right :-) | 21:45 |
| auke | I didn't put systemd in trunk yet | 21:46 |
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| npm | ah, thus my confusion... given my special setup :-) it attempted to install systemd-10-2.fc14.1 | 21:47 |
| npm | and that's when i realized the patterns for zypper haven't caught up to the repos | 21:48 |
| npm | because otherwise my repo priorities and marking which arch they come from should have caught that | 21:48 |
| npm | one other discrepancy... pattern 'meego-netbook' says package 'acpid' is to be installed but it wasn't | 21:49 |
| npm | so i installed it and it still works. is it needed on the atom netbook? | 21:49 |
| auke | acpid is required for most of ia32 | 21:50 |
| auke | you should have it | 21:50 |
| npm | it's been running without it since forever :-) | 21:50 |
| auke | please don't install fedora rpms, especially for stuff like systemd? | 21:51 |
| npm | just installed it for first time today (been on 1.2 since february | 21:51 |
| auke | unless you like to reinstall every week :P | 21:51 |
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| npm | i do not install fedora rpm's for systemmd | 21:51 |
| npm | it's just that the meego patterns haven't caught up to the repos, apparently | 21:51 |
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| npm | so it was falling through to my backstop, which is fedora -- but i don't let it install stuff like that | 21:52 |
| Stskeeps | auke: yeah, that is our work anyway | 21:52 |
| auke | the groups are not that important - they break regularlyt and that should not be an issue | 21:52 |
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| npm | on the other hand, if it weren't for fedora, i'd be dead in the water right now, but i fixed it: https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16879 | 21:53 |
| MeeGoBot | Bug 16879 maj, High, ---, peter.j.zhu, NEW, hunspell dumps core with default english dictionary, and is installed with no default dictionary | 21:53 |
| auke | otoh, feel free to open bugzilla's on each group that no longer works | 21:53 |
| npm | auke: i was just looking at groups/patterns today to sanity check my system against latest updates | 21:53 |
| npm | since i'm basically doing a "rolling 1.2 update" on here | 21:53 |
| auke | I did that a while back but QA does not test the comps/groups/patterns regularly | 21:54 |
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| npm | i'm a little surprised 1.2 is being released w/ connman 0.69 tho --- it doesn't work at all | 21:57 |
| npm | i'm running connman-0.73.38.gc14f115-1.1.i586 or i'd be dead in the water w/ 1.2 as well | 21:57 |
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| alterego | It's not worked at all for me ever :P | 21:58 |
| npm | (from http://download.meego.com/live/devel:/connectivity:/latest/Trunk ) | 21:58 |
| npm | alterego: don't you think you should jump up and down about it a little then, 1.2 is going to get released, with a little problem... it won't connect to networks | 21:59 |
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| npm | at least with this 0.73 version, i know what fields i have to retype in the connection box in order to get it working (it loses the netmask each boot/suspend) | 22:00 |
| alterego | I have been, "" I can't connect to adhoc wifi, I can't connect to adhoc wifi, I can't connect to adhoc wifi") :P | 22:01 |
| npm | i've been "i can't connect to static ip" ... | 22:01 |
| alterego | Seems like the problem is also N900 wifi driver at the moment :) | 22:02 |
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| auke | I think trunk will go to 0.73/74 soon | 22:03 |
| npm | i was talking about the netbook ux, but i've also had plenty of wireless probs w/ the n900 | 22:03 |
| npm | but isn't "trunk" 1.3 now? | 22:03 |
| npm | or is "trunk" still on the 1.2 release train | 22:03 |
| alterego | Yeah, I thought the big switch happened at the weekend. | 22:03 |
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| npm | or will certain 1.3 trunk get patched over to 1.2? | 22:04 |
| gandhijee | hey, the new onscreen keyboard for meego | 22:04 |
| gandhijee | does it register itself with /dev/input? | 22:04 |
| Stskeeps | gandhijee: uses qt/xinput2 prolly | 22:06 |
| gandhijee | ok, thanks | 22:06 |
| auke | trunk is 1.3 now | 22:07 |
| auke | 1.2 branch lives on entirely on it's own | 22:07 |
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| gabrbedd | speaking of the on-screen keyboard... a can't get it to disappear with a down-swipe any more. How do you get it to go away? | 22:09 |
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| npm | auke: one of the reasons for looking into my rolling update was to solve the reason why i turned off corewatcher -- core dumps every few minutes from /usr/libexec/meego-panel-status | 22:09 |
| gabrbedd | (without pressing [Enter], that is) | 22:09 |
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| dm8tbr | lbt: I subscribed back then for a good reason. I wanted to stay up to date about infrastructure, because that's what would happen on such a mailing list, wouldn't it? :) | 22:19 |
| lbt | *g* | 22:19 |
| dm8tbr | and seems it has worked out just fine :) | 22:20 |
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| lcuk | DawnFoster, have you filled in MarcA-N's poll yet? | 22:42 |
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| DawnFoster | lcuk: I haven't | 22:42 |
| sofar | poll? | 22:43 |
| DawnFoster | lcuk: as part of the conference planning team, I already get lots of input into what we put on the signs :) | 22:43 |
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| berndhs | i just voted here down the street :) | 22:43 |
| lcuk | DawnFoster, would you be likely to put a wonderwoman/batgirl heroine type superhero in it? | 22:43 |
| DawnFoster | sofar: The MeeGo San Francisco conference planning committee is seeking to feature select quotes/phrases on conference signage. Please help us make this a community centric event! https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/T6P5C8H | 22:43 |
| lcuk | DawnFoster, for fun of course | 22:43 |
| sofar | DawnFoster: lorem ipsum gets my vote :D | 22:44 |
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| lcuk | sofar, don't vote here, submit it! | 22:44 |
| DawnFoster | lcuk: I think we should have a werewolf girl superhero :) | 22:44 |
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| lcuk | DawnFoster, hah yeah | 22:45 |
| anidel | DawnFoster: surely someone asked already. Has a T-Shirt design been selected? | 22:45 |
| lcuk | hi anidel \o | 22:46 |
| DawnFoster | anidel: it has - brian should be announcing the winner today | 22:46 |
| anidel | hi lcuk , popping in every now and then :) | 22:46 |
| anidel | DawnFoster: cool, thanks! | 22:46 |
| lcuk | just take a plain one and design it on the plane | 22:46 |
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| anidel | :D | 22:46 |
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| gabrbedd | wait... the TTL on my DNS expired... sofar is auke, right? :-p | 22:48 |
| lcuk | DawnFoster, are you near enough to the conf to drive to it, or are you flying in like many others? | 22:48 |
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| DawnFoster | flying - it's a 2 hour flight - more than a day to drive | 22:49 |
| sofar | <- auke, affirmative | 22:49 |
| gabrbedd | :-) | 22:49 |
| anidel | lcuk: Portland - SFO are not that close | 22:49 |
| lcuk | DawnFoster, but when we have IVI running smoothly it will be a nicer day roadtrip | 22:50 |
| anidel | but Portland is, to me, much nicer | 22:50 |
| DawnFoster | it would be a 10-12 hour drive with no stops :) | 22:50 |
| GAN900 | lcuk's US geography fail. | 22:50 |
| anidel | lcuk: i'll be driving, if you're interested :) | 22:50 |
| DawnFoster | GAN900: ha :) | 22:50 |
| anidel | GAN900: epic fail :) | 22:50 |
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| lcuk | GAN900, it was a question | 22:50 |
| GAN900 | anidel, highest density of advanced degrees in the country. Take that how you will. ;) | 22:50 |
| lcuk | conversation :P | 22:50 |
| * lcuk thinks if you google every single answer life is dull. | 22:51 | |
| anidel | GAN900: SFO ? who cares :) I like food and Portland food culture is awesome | 22:51 |
| lcuk | though some are worth googling :) | 22:51 |
| DawnFoster | yeah, portland has amazing food | 22:51 |
| npm | lcuk: look up answers in http://www.urbandictionary.com/ then :-) | 22:52 |
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| anidel | trying to remember were we ate...can't :( short memory | 22:52 |
| GAN900 | anidel, Portland. | 22:52 |
| lcuk | npm, the general point applies, and urbandictionary has some extremely strange things, drinking games involving random clicks are always fun | 22:53 |
| GAN900 | and I don't generally consider that an agreeable thing. :P | 22:53 |
| anidel | GAN900: ah really? didn't know that | 22:53 |
| * alterego wonders if elop drugged the board members when persuading them an MS deal would be a good thing :) | 22:53 | |
| GAN900 | anidel, it's why a place like Powell's can exist there. | 22:53 |
| GAN900 | It's also why it's full of insufferable collectivists. | 22:53 |
| alterego | 3 major phone OS' all as flawed as each other | 22:53 |
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| anidel | GAN900: :) | 22:54 |
| Alive | meego | 22:54 |
| Alive | hola ni meegos | 22:54 |
| anidel | GAN900: been there for two days only. But wouldn't mind relocating at all. Closer to Seattle as well and liked Oregon and Washington nature quite a bit | 22:54 |
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| lcuk | does anyone know any good movies? | 22:57 |
| alterego | What kind of movie? | 22:57 |
| anidel | "Bienvenue chez les Ch'tis" | 22:58 |
| anidel | it's a very cool movie | 22:58 |
| anidel | it's French, but quite funny and relaxing | 22:59 |
| thiago_home | yeah | 22:59 |
| thiago_home | especially for someone who has lived in that region :-) | 22:59 |
| * thiago_home lived 2 years in Lille and could understand Ch'ti | 22:59 | |
| anidel | you did? is it that cold and people weird? :) | 22:59 |
| lcuk | anidel, the only french movies I have been able to sit through (in language) were the taxi series | 23:00 |
| thiago_home | oh, yeah, and you never see the sun :-) | 23:00 |
| arfoll | lcuk, you're missing out there are lots of good ones | 23:00 |
| * lcuk nods | 23:00 | |
| thiago_home | le dîner des cons is great | 23:00 |
| anidel | thiago_home: eheh | 23:00 |
| arfoll | that's one of my favourites :-) | 23:00 |
| anidel | lcuk: there's the english version as well... | 23:00 |
| thiago_home | I also recommend "la tour montparnasse infernale" | 23:00 |
| arfoll | thiago, seriously? | 23:01 |
| thiago_home | yeah | 23:01 |
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| anidel | also "Lisbon Story", lcuk | 23:01 |
| lcuk | I misread the title | 23:01 |
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| lcuk | thiago_home, tracy prefers Die Hard | 23:02 |
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| thiago_home | this is french comedy, nothing like amélie poulain... | 23:03 |
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| arfoll | try asterix & obelix mission cleopatra, that's really good french comedy | 23:04 |
| GAN900 | Did anybody put up a flights page for the conference yet? | 23:04 |
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| alterego | GAN900: yes | 23:04 |
| lcuk | arfoll, :D great idea | 23:05 |
| lcuk | I watched a few random ones of those a while ago | 23:05 |
| alterego | Don't know where it is though :) | 23:05 |
| * thiago_home got his flight confirmation today | 23:05 | |
| arfoll | lcuk, i don't mean the cartoons, theres a film. in fact there are 3 films but only the mission cleoaptra one is good | 23:05 |
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| arfoll | GAN900, a flight page would be good | 23:06 |
| lcuk | arfoll, yeah I know | 23:06 |
| GAN900 | alterego, useless. . . . | 23:06 |
| alterego | GAN900: I think it was Jaffa that started the flights page. | 23:06 |
| thiago_home | btw, "bi-annual" means every two years, doesn't it? | 23:06 |
| * GAN900 downloads Ubuntu at 60KB/sec for his new x220 | 23:07 | |
| alterego | I'm holding off installing latest Ubuntu until I finish my current contract | 23:07 |
| anidel | thiago_home: yes | 23:07 |
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| berndhs | bi-annual means every 2 years or 2 times a year, both | 23:08 |
| anidel | true | 23:08 |
| jedix | GAN900: I'm intersted in hearing how that runs, that laptop is on my short list | 23:08 |
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| thiago_home | we should change the wiki to say "twice-yearly" | 23:08 |
| GAN900 | jedix, trackpad still isn't as good as Apple's are. . . . | 23:09 |
| anidel | GAN900: ack I wanted to get the X220 myself...opted for a camera instead :P how is it | 23:09 |
| GAN900 | berndhs, pretty it means twice a year. | 23:09 |
| GAN900 | You might be looking for semi-annual. | 23:09 |
| jedix | GAN900: can you disable it all together? | 23:09 |
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| berndhs | better to use a non-ambiguous term | 23:11 |
| * arfoll_ thinks maybe like ubuntu releases would be best | 23:11 | |
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| gabrbedd | six monthical | 23:13 |
| jedix | cononical based update period...hehe | 23:16 |
| anidel | "semiannual" is not ambigous and means twice a year or every 6 months | 23:17 |
| * jedix would prefer the ID release schedule of `when it's done` | 23:17 | |
| jedix | hard to sell to management though | 23:17 |
| gabrbedd | jedix: :-) | 23:19 |
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| GAN900 | berndhs, in my English it's pretty non-ambiguous. :P | 23:23 |
| berndhs | yeah but thats just you :) | 23:24 |
| berndhs | semi-annual is better | 23:24 |
| alterego | semi-annual just sounds like it might happen once a year :P | 23:25 |
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| berndhs | how about "every now and then" | 23:28 |
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| GAN900 | semi-annual is every two years. :P | 23:29 |
| GAN900 | "sometimes" | 23:30 |
| berndhs | "when we feel like it" | 23:30 |
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| jedix | "when we release a new version" | 23:32 |
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| thp | "every first of a month when it falls on a friday and the month number modulo 5 is zero" | 23:41 |
| berndhs | may and november | 23:42 |
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| * thiago_home likes the bugs that trigger on daylight saving changes | 23:43 | |
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| lcuk | thiago_home, they occur on qt too? | 23:44 |
| lcuk | I thought QDate was strong? | 23:44 |
| thiago_home | yeah | 23:44 |
| thiago_home | QDate is good | 23:44 |
| berndhs | thats an idea, have the conference on the time change weekend, so people get more confused | 23:44 |
| thiago_home | but this specific bug happens if the datetime tests happen during the change | 23:44 |
| thiago_home | QDateTime internally stores the fact that you're before or after the changeover | 23:45 |
| thiago_home | but if you take the hour out and reset, it will be wrong | 23:45 |
| thiago_home | e.g.: QDateTime dt = QDateTime::currentDateTime; QDatateTime dt2(dt.date(), dt.time()); | 23:45 |
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| thiago_home | is dt == dt2? | 23:45 |
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| lcuk | one would expect so | 23:46 |
| thiago_home | it's true except for 60 minutes once a year | 23:46 |
| lcuk | are you sure it is only 60 minutes | 23:46 |
| lcuk | my calendar had an awesome bug where I missed a day earlier this year | 23:46 |
| thiago_home | http://labs.qt.nokia.com/2011/04/09/perfect-timing/ | 23:47 |
| lcuk | but thankfully, I get two back later on :() | 23:47 |
| lcuk | :) | 23:47 |
| berndhs | normally one would expect dt2 >= dt | 23:47 |
| thiago_home | berndhs: why? it's the same date and time | 23:47 |
| berndhs | ah wait I misread it, was thinking about QDateTime dt (QDateTime::currentDateTime().date()...) | 23:48 |
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| gabrbedd | MeeGo on Fedora? | 23:54 |
| gabrbedd | Why not Debian on Fedora?? | 23:54 |
| * gabrbedd just saw meego-community@ | 23:54 | |
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| * thiago_home prefers Solaris on AIX | 23:56 | |
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| berndhs | Cray Linux on openwrt ? | 23:57 |
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