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| alterego | Dialer screenshots: http://stage.rubyx.co.uk/meego/screenshots/handset/ | 00:21 |
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| mikhas | alterego, use more padding: http://stage.rubyx.co.uk/meego/screenshots/handset/meego-screenshot-handset_20110430_221553.png | 00:46 |
| mikhas | distance between keys should be around 6-8px | 00:46 |
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| alterego | It's just wireframe :P | 00:47 |
| alterego | Are you talking about the numberpad | 00:48 |
| mikhas | alterego, using Qt components? I think they have reactive areas there, so you wouldn't necessarily lose accuracy for the keys | 00:48 |
| alterego | ? | 00:48 |
| mikhas | yes | 00:48 |
| alterego | No, not using Qt Components, nothing has matured enough for me to take advantage of it yet :/ | 00:48 |
| alterego | Then plan is to use meego-ux-components | 00:48 |
| mikhas | then this whole we-replace-lmt-with-plain-qml is not worth it | 00:49 |
| mikhas | Qt components I could understand, plain QML ... seems like too much effort, for what gain exactly? | 00:50 |
| thiago_home | keep the current code until components is ready | 00:50 |
| alterego | I'm using plain QML in the absence of any components. | 00:50 |
| thiago_home | no need to port twice | 00:50 |
| alterego | Exactly | 00:50 |
| mikhas | there is no need to port at all, if we would be realistic, but whatever | 00:51 |
| thiago_home | indeed | 00:51 |
| alterego | Well, we don't have anyway to theme it currently. | 00:51 |
| alterego | So that code is statically styled. | 00:52 |
| alterego | Well, semi-static-styled | 00:52 |
| mikhas | we have bigger problems than going into a rewrite binge | 00:52 |
| mikhas | but that's just my view | 00:52 |
| sivang | but qt components is getting there right? | 00:53 |
| sivang | at least so I think I heared a few days ago... | 00:53 |
| thiago_home | yes | 00:53 |
| mikhas | Qt components looks promising, but even that rewrite was unnecessary | 00:53 |
| alterego | Maybe, I've not decided whether to use Qt Components or MeeGo UX Components | 00:54 |
| sivang | What's MeeGo UX components? | 00:54 |
| mikhas | (a rewrite from QWidget UI to QML for handset, yes, go for it. a rewrite from LMT to QML? pointless) | 00:54 |
| alterego | The point is, it's up to ISVs really, as a reference app it would make sense doing it in MeeGo UX Components. | 00:54 |
| sivang | qml based? | 00:54 |
| alterego | sivang: yes, it's the QML widgetset that the tablet ux uses. | 00:54 |
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| sivang | alterego: ah, okay | 00:54 |
| alterego | Based on Qt Components | 00:54 |
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| alterego | Hopefully they'll realign before 1.3 :) | 00:55 |
| sivang | I was afraid something new sprung into existence and I'm too out of touch. | 00:55 |
| sivang | based on a snapshot of qt comps from when? | 00:55 |
| sivang | mikhas: LMT? | 00:55 |
| thiago_home | MTF | 00:55 |
| mikhas | MeeGo Touch | 00:55 |
| sivang | ouch | 00:55 |
| sivang | meego touch.. | 00:55 |
| mikhas | MTF sounds too much like WTF, marketing fail | 00:55 |
| sivang | haha | 00:56 |
| alterego | Heh | 00:56 |
| thiago_home | WTF is part of webkit | 00:56 |
| sivang | mikhas: not only :-p | 00:56 |
| thiago_home | besides, who cares about marketing for MTF? :-) | 00:56 |
| mikhas | thiago_home, it was bad marketing that killed it, no? | 00:56 |
| thiago_home | no | 00:56 |
| sivang | thiago_home: do you happen to know if WebKit in Qt on Symbian Anna shall support HTTP Live / HTTP streaming ? | 00:56 |
| CosmoHill | if you skip the T the first word could be mother :/ | 00:56 |
| thiago_home | sivang: if it's supported anywhere, it'll be supported there. | 00:57 |
| sivang | thiago_home: how can we find out positively? ask webkit upstream? What version of webkit are we using in qt? | 00:57 |
| thiago_home | ask #qtwebkit | 00:57 |
| mikhas | sorry but saying that QML is better than LMT for handset is pure marketing nonsense. integration for LMT is much better. | 00:57 |
| sivang | why again is it called LMT now? | 00:58 |
| sivang | instead of MTF? | 00:58 |
| mikhas | libmeegotouch | 00:58 |
| thiago_home | we're using QtWebKit 2.0 in Qt 4.7; there's 2.1 for Harmattan and then there's 2.2 coming soon | 00:58 |
| sivang | ah, k, cool | 00:58 |
| mikhas | MTF is more than just libmeegotouch, technically spoken | 00:58 |
| thiago_home | mikhas: indeed | 00:58 |
| mikhas | the mistake is that everything using just a single bit *from* LMT is called MTF | 00:58 |
| thiago_home | the big problem for MTF is that its widgets are C++ sitting on top of Graphics View | 00:58 |
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| thiago_home | that's the big issue | 00:59 |
| mikhas | and that's how our keyboard got on Intel's kill list, for example | 00:59 |
| alterego | Why is C++ ontop of QGV an issue? | 00:59 |
| alterego | MTF is nice technology, QML is just easier | 01:00 |
| thiago_home | because the replacement for GV isn't binary compatible | 01:00 |
| alterego | Oh | 01:00 |
| alterego | There's a GV replacement? | 01:00 |
| sivang | SceneView no? | 01:00 |
| thiago_home | QML code transitions without a hitch; C++ code needs to be rewritten. | 01:00 |
| sivang | QSceneView or so? | 01:00 |
| thiago_home | Scene Graph | 01:00 |
| sivang | err | 01:00 |
| sivang | graph :-p | 01:00 |
| sivang | yeah | 01:00 |
| alterego | Ah, right, yes, the Scene Graph stuff | 01:00 |
| alterego | Is that Qt 5? | 01:00 |
| alterego | Or 4.8 ? | 01:00 |
| thiago_home | it is available to work on top of 4.8 | 01:00 |
| sivang | why is the graph stuff better? (better utilization or bare metal utilization of accelerated hardware?) | 01:00 |
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| mikhas | but that's the problem | 01:01 |
| mikhas | you cannot base a product on future stuff | 01:01 |
| thiago_home | it's doing OpenGL the way that OpenGL was inteded to be used | 01:01 |
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| mikhas | and yet we managed to get LMT performance good enough, eventually | 01:01 |
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| thiago_home | on one device | 01:01 |
| mikhas | the story that people wont tell you | 01:01 |
| mikhas | yeah well, QML is slower than LMT | 01:02 |
| mikhas | they come asking for our hacks | 01:02 |
| mikhas | so there | 01:02 |
| thiago_home | that's not what I see in Oslo | 01:02 |
| mikhas | and scene graph is not there yet, so QML stays slower for a bit | 01:02 |
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| mikhas | well, products need *released* software | 01:02 |
| thiago_home | 60 fps overlay drawing on live video playing with 20% CPU | 01:02 |
| mikhas | peanuts | 01:03 |
| mikhas | =p | 01:03 |
| thiago_home | on Symbian-level hardware | 01:03 |
| sivang | thiago_home: the HTTP live stuff is required to deliver streaming content in Israel today, all content providers use it and I've been contacted by folks to ask if it is supported on Symbian to see if it would be worthwhile to migrate to qt.. | 01:03 |
| sivang | thiago_home: this is OT here, can I forward you the email I sent to my FN contacts and others getting no response? | 01:03 |
| sivang | thiago_home: would be a great help. The official distributor here contacted me about that... | 01:04 |
| thiago_home | sivang: I'm not sure I can help, as I don't even understand what the requirement is. | 01:04 |
| sivang | thiago_home: see the email, if you have nothing to add, just ignore it. | 01:04 |
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| thiago_home | mikhas: anyway, yes, you need released stuff. That's why I said don't port now. | 01:04 |
| thiago_home | wait until a good replacement exists, if any porting is to be done. | 01:04 |
| * sivang asks for forgiveness for the terrible OTness | 01:04 | |
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| mikhas | yep | 01:05 |
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| sivang | thiago_home: you still work on qt for Nokia right? :) | 01:07 |
| thiago_home | yes | 01:07 |
| thiago_home | I still work on Qt for Nokia | 01:07 |
| * sivang wipes sweat off head :-) | 01:08 | |
| mikhas | sivang, dont be so scared | 01:08 |
| sivang | mikhas: I won't :) | 01:08 |
| mikhas | even if you took Intel and Nokia away, there would still be people working on MeeGo, Qt, whatever | 01:08 |
| * thiago_home has no plans of stopping work on Qt | 01:09 | |
| mikhas | I see what GNOME manages to pull off with a handful of people (granted they get paid by companies, but still) | 01:09 |
| sivang | yes, but let's not even think of Intel going away from MeeGo, at least not at this easly stag. | 01:09 |
| sivang | *stage | 01:09 |
| mikhas | sivang, you are scared again | 01:09 |
| sivang | heh | 01:09 |
| sivang | okay, I'll stop. | 01:09 |
| sivang | :) | 01:09 |
| mikhas | it would not kill MeeGo, not at all | 01:10 |
| sivang | are LG investing into it, or you rely just on the individuals like us working on it? | 01:10 |
| sivang | :) | 01:10 |
| mikhas | bad products and bad decisions, too many delays, that's what can kill it | 01:10 |
| CosmoHill | sounds like Duke Nukem Forever | 01:10 |
| mikhas | sivang, I am saying: dont underestimate *people*, dont overestimate *companies* | 01:10 |
| sivang | true. | 01:10 |
| sivang | See Debian | 01:11 |
| sivang | mikhas: true, let's hope we won't see much of those anymore | 01:11 |
| sivang | (bad productws, bad decisions, bad execution) | 01:11 |
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| thiago_home | hey, not even Duke Nukem is dead | 01:13 |
| * w00t_ is with thiago_home | 01:13 | |
| w00t_ | I have too much fun with Qt to stop using it :-) | 01:13 |
| * alterego agrees | 01:14 | |
| CosmoHill | if I had the skills I'd like to make some modifications to Qt, more speifically Qmake on mac | 01:15 |
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| thiago_home | CosmoHill: we'd like to get rid of qmake | 01:15 |
| CosmoHill | even better | 01:16 |
| mikhas | thiago_home, <3 | 01:16 |
| CosmoHill | I just used it to make a .pro file and then a Makefile, which I then had to edit so it would actually compile | 01:16 |
| mikhas | if only it was better documented ... =p | 01:16 |
| mikhas | and if qmake -d was readable (try qmake -d -d -d for fun!) | 01:17 |
| thiago_home | if only qmake's source code were readable... | 01:17 |
| thiago_home | qmake was written in C++ to do what a perl script (tmake) did | 01:17 |
| CosmoHill | vi qmake.cc | 01:17 |
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| CosmoHill | dG | 01:17 |
| CosmoHill | :wq | 01:17 |
| CosmoHill | (or is it "dgg"?) | 01:17 |
| mikhas | :-) | 01:17 |
| w00t_ | thiago_home: it's not *that* bad.. well, I've seen worse.. but it's not good either :-) | 01:18 |
| thiago_home | I've seen worse too | 01:18 |
| thiago_home | like make's source code | 01:18 |
| w00t_ | CosmoHill: I'd ggVgd | 01:18 |
| thiago_home | iddqd | 01:18 |
| CosmoHill | Good Game, Very Good | 01:18 |
| w00t_ | VG* | 01:18 |
| w00t_ | and I guess the leading 'gg' isn't needed if you only just opened it... | 01:19 |
| CosmoHill | you know that joke where the source code roads: "if(true) { something} else {same thing} | 01:19 |
| CosmoHill | it's not so funny when it's your own code | 01:19 |
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| sivang | thiago_home: got the email? | 01:19 |
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| sivang | thiago_home: use plain autotools? | 01:20 |
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| w00t_ | I doubt it | 01:20 |
| w00t_ | that's not really conducive to being cross platform | 01:20 |
| thiago_home | got the email | 01:21 |
| CosmoHill | qmake makes i386 binaries on my powerpc mac -.- | 01:21 |
| thiago_home | no, the solution is another in-house system | 01:21 |
| sivang | so how can qmake be red of? | 01:21 |
| thiago_home | qbs | 01:21 |
| sivang | qbs? | 01:21 |
| sivang | oh | 01:21 |
| thiago_home | yes | 01:21 |
| sivang | qt build system | 01:21 |
| sivang | in python? | 01:21 |
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| thiago_home | in QML | 01:21 |
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| sivang | seriously? | 01:21 |
| thiago_home | yes | 01:21 |
| thiago_home | the project files would be QML | 01:21 |
| sivang | isn't QML just for UX ? | 01:21 |
| thiago_home | QML is a language | 01:22 |
| w00t_ | QML is .. what he said | 01:22 |
| sivang | yes, I know | 01:22 |
| w00t_ | nothing stops it being used elsewhere | 01:22 |
| sivang | ofcourse not. | 01:22 |
| CosmoHill | Questionable Markup Language? | 01:22 |
| sivang | I'd say use SCons instead of re-inventing so many wheels | 01:22 |
| thiago_home | I just don't know how we're going to use QML to build the libraries that interpret QML | 01:22 |
| berndhs | as long as it doesnt rely on an IDE | 01:22 |
| sivang | berndhs++ | 01:22 |
| * CosmoHill realises that he's been getting QML confused with UML these past weeks | 01:22 | |
| w00t_ | thiago_home: how does gcc compile gcc? :-) | 01:23 |
| thiago_home | w00t_: it bootstraps itself | 01:23 |
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| thiago_home | there's a first stage that is compilable by any C compiler | 01:23 |
| w00t_ | really? | 01:23 |
| thiago_home | the second stage builds a real gcc | 01:23 |
| thiago_home | then it runs a third time to build gcc with gcc | 01:23 |
| w00t_ | I thought it used any compiler to compile gcc, then you did a fresh build with the new compiler | 01:23 |
| w00t_ | right | 01:23 |
| sivang | that's how every self intepreting languages work no? | 01:23 |
| sivang | w00t_: when you bootstrap a toolchain, this is the same process | 01:24 |
| sivang | w00t_: when you want to create a pure soft float tool chain for example :) | 01:24 |
| sivang | or self- soemthing, forgot the scientific term | 01:24 |
| thiago_home | self-hosted | 01:24 |
| sivang | right, thank you | 01:24 |
| thiago_home | but even then some things are bootstrappable from elsewhereg | 01:25 |
| thiago_home | gcc can be built with other C compilers | 01:25 |
| thiago_home | tar is shipped in a shar | 01:25 |
| sivang | thiago_home: you shold also be able to use a differnet linker, for the bootstrapping of the monolithic compiler | 01:25 |
| w00t_ | symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/egl/egl_dri2.so: undefined symbol: _glapi_get_proc_address | 01:25 |
| w00t_ | I think something is broken here :-) | 01:25 |
| thiago_home | until a short while ago, gzip was available in a compress archive | 01:25 |
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| * w00t_ hrms | 01:29 | |
| w00t_ | I wonder what that's about | 01:30 |
| w00t_ | the only reference I can find to it is openvg, and I'm definitely not doing anything related to openvg | 01:30 |
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| lbt | phaeron: python lets you | 01:38 |
| lbt | try it | 01:38 |
| sivang | w00t_: rebuild? | 01:39 |
| phaeron | lbt: hop | 01:39 |
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| sivang | thiago_home: why not use something already existing and standard in open source as a build system? | 01:41 |
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| w00t_ | most likely answer: doesn't meet requirements | 01:42 |
| w00t_ | (and is too difficult to make meet them) | 01:42 |
| sivang | w00t_: I'm just trying to think up the world with yet-another-build-system :) | 01:45 |
| sivang | w00t_: but you are right. I guess most of the stuff was more suited at 70's software | 01:45 |
| sivang | but SCons is rather an amazing take of modern configuratio and build system. | 01:45 |
| sivang | I would recommend everybody who knows a bit of python to use it. It allows great flexability. | 01:46 |
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| berndhs | i tried scons, something about it caused really negative feelings :) | 01:47 |
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| sivang | berndhs: like? | 01:49 |
| berndhs | i dont remember, honestly | 01:50 |
| * sivang finds qmake nice and magical | 01:50 | |
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| sivang | I cd to a source tree, qmake | 01:50 |
| sivang | and things just happens :) | 01:50 |
| sivang | berndhs: have you ever used couchdb? | 01:50 |
| berndhs | dont think so | 01:50 |
| sivang | okay. If you do, it'd feel funkey at start. | 01:50 |
| sivang | Once you get used to it, you can't imagine your life without it. | 01:51 |
| sivang | :-p | 01:51 |
| sivang | funky | 01:51 |
| sivang | * | 01:51 |
| berndhs | i like declarative stuff for builds, here are the sources, thats what i want to make | 01:51 |
| berndhs | i dont want to say how to find things | 01:52 |
| sivang | you don't with scons. | 01:54 |
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| sivang | you do need to say what you want to build, that's granted. | 01:54 |
| berndhs | maybe it was one of those python things, you had to get past pages of how elegant it is, before the docs tell you anything | 01:54 |
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| sivang | hehe | 01:54 |
| sivang | berndhs: "Zen" | 01:54 |
| sivang | :-p | 01:54 |
| berndhs | i hate that about python | 01:54 |
| berndhs | its no more elegant than anything else | 01:55 |
| sivang | well, explicit is better than implicit | 01:55 |
| sivang | :) | 01:55 |
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| sivang | there should be one, and only one way to do it.. | 01:55 |
| sivang | :) | 01:55 |
| sivang | anyway, I need to get some sleep. | 01:55 |
| berndhs | assigning meaning to blank spaces is just dumb | 01:56 |
| sivang | keep the faith people. | 01:56 |
| sivang | berndhs: this sounds like perl | 01:56 |
| berndhs | dream about something positive :) | 01:56 |
| sivang | will do :) | 01:56 |
| * sivang will dream of SF meego conference that a handset device will be announced there | 01:56 | |
| sivang | running meego and only qt | 01:57 |
| sivang | :-p | 01:57 |
| berndhs | :) | 01:57 |
| sivang | night berndhs | 01:57 |
| sivang | (others) | 01:57 |
| lbt | o/ | 01:57 |
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| mikhas | only Qt? means you are not allowed to use Chrome browser or regular Fennec, good luck | 02:06 |
| * mikhas does not understand why people like to restrict their own freedom | 02:06 | |
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| CosmoHill | cyas | 03:11 |
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| npm | so meego nebook 1.2 now seems to have a "flickr" capability in "add web accounts" ... so i'm logged in to flickr through it successfully... now what? | 03:18 |
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| npm | (when i logged in to flicker it said something about "Fedora Mojito" not MeeGo or Moblin Mojito) | 03:21 |
| npm | oh wait i forgot about my specially added key /usr/share/libsocialweb/keys/flickr | 03:23 |
| npm | i guess it knows where i got it from :-) | 03:24 |
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| berndhs | yeah it knows where you've been | 03:27 |
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| akk | Anybody installed qtcreator via repo.meego.com on Ubuntu natty? I'm trying to add the Qt version for the local machine and getting "Qt version is not properly installed, please run make install" | 04:18 |
| akk | and running make install doesn't sound like a safe idea for something I installed with apt-get | 04:18 |
| akk | This is in the "Using the MeeGo SDK Qt version" step on http://wiki.meego.com/SDK/Docs/1.1/Getting_started_with_the_MeeGo_SDK_for_Linux#Installing_the_MeeGo_SDK | 04:18 |
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| akk | I do have a qmake in /opt/meego/meego-sdk-qt/bin/qmake, but maybe the problem is that it's from http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/sdk/host/repos/ubuntu/10.10/ because there's no 11.04 there yet. | 04:20 |
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| mikeleib | zypper in qt-creator | 04:46 |
| mikeleib | ;) | 04:46 |
| akk | Was that to me? Sorry, I'm new to qtcreator so I'm not sure. (Isn't zypper like an RPM equivalent of apt-get?) | 04:50 |
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| gabrbedd | akk: Yes, zypper is an RPM equiv. of apt-get. | 06:23 |
| gabrbedd | night all.... | 06:23 |
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| mikeleib | akk: it was a bit of a jab-- I develop for MeeGo on MeeGo. I advocate others do the same. So installing qt-creator is as easy as using zypper, the package manager MeeGo uses | 06:46 |
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| akk | Ah, I see. | 06:49 |
| akk | I don't think that'll work for me right now -- my ExoPC seems really unstable under MeeGo, crashes quite a lot. | 06:50 |
| akk | It would make testing easier, for sure, once things get more stable. | 06:53 |
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| mikeleib | I've had some stability issues as well on my ExopC. I think the last update I had from Trunk caused things to get more stable, but I can't honestly remember | 06:58 |
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| mikeleib | on my s10, it's pretty solid. | 06:58 |
| akk | I tried downloading trunk this morning but it didn't boot at all. | 06:59 |
| akk | Figured I'd wait a few days 'til I heard somebody here say "hey, today's build is great" and then grab it. :) | 07:00 |
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| akk | Are apps always fullscreen on the ExoPC? I'm following http://wiki.meego.com/SDK/Docs/1.1/Creating_Hello_World but the app is fullscreen no matter what size I make the window. | 07:21 |
| akk | I'm using meego-core-ia32-trunk for the target. | 07:22 |
| w00t_ | yes | 07:22 |
| w00t_ | tablets only have one window at a time open | 07:22 |
| akk | ah, ok. Then I'll stop trying to resize things. :) | 07:23 |
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| w00t_ | :-) | 07:23 |
| akk | Though it's actually not quite fullscreen ... it's fullscreen except for a rectangle along the top where the background and top bar show through. | 07:24 |
| akk | Starting from about 1/3 from the left in X. Some sort of display bug, I guess. | 07:26 |
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| chridhs | Hello | 10:34 |
| chridhs | Whats up? | 10:34 |
| chridhs | Wow this place is full of people talking and conversing | 10:35 |
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| Fargh | what did you expect at 3oclock in the morning ? | 10:36 |
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| * dm8tbr yawns | 11:01 | |
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| * lcuk jumps out of bed, somersaults over to the coffee machine, ascends the stairs without touching any, swings around the banister and plants feet firmly infront of the mirror to admire his new hairdo and shaped beard | 12:57 | |
| thiago_home | and all of that because of the coffee? | 12:58 |
| lcuk | the coffee is still brewing | 12:58 |
| * lcuk will enjoy it once it is ready though | 13:01 | |
| lcuk | thiago_home, having a lazy Sunday? | 13:01 |
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| thiago_home | yeah | 13:10 |
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| lcuk | thiago_home, I was looking at qt-creator and a default qt project that runs on desktop | 13:15 |
| lcuk | just a small one | 13:15 |
| lcuk | how do I make that project then instead of running in normal desktop become targetted for meego? | 13:15 |
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| thiago_home | dunno | 13:18 |
| thiago_home | ask maurice | 13:18 |
| lcuk | MauriceK you mean? | 13:18 |
| thiago_home | yes | 13:19 |
| lcuk | if so, ping :D | 13:19 |
| lcuk | thiago_home, I saw a thing yesterday of you saying 60fps overlay drawing but was not sitting reading conversation, what was it wrt to? | 13:20 |
| * Stskeeps has success teaching his wife qml with qt components | 13:20 | |
| lcuk | :D Stskeeps | 13:20 |
| thiago_home | scene graph | 13:20 |
| lcuk | nice | 13:21 |
| alterego | Stskeeps: did you see the screenshots? | 13:21 |
| Stskeeps | alterego: yes, most excellent :) | 13:21 |
| lcuk | alterego, no where? | 13:21 |
| Stskeeps | should post them to the thread too | 13:21 |
| alterego | I was going to yeah. | 13:21 |
| alterego | lcuk: http://stage.rubyx.co.uk/meego/screenshots/handset/ | 13:22 |
| lcuk | awesome alterego | 13:22 |
| alterego | thanks :) | 13:23 |
| lcuk | I clicked one of them yesterday the webserver was not letting me see them, but they look great now I can | 13:23 |
| lcuk | alterego, what were you using for screenshots? | 13:24 |
| alterego | Still obviously a lot of work to do, but it's a good start. | 13:24 |
| alterego | Yeah, the most recent image, I copied it a bit differently and it lost permissions. | 13:24 |
| alterego | Anyhow, bbiam | 13:24 |
| alterego | lcuk: cp /dev/fb0 screenshot.raw | 13:25 |
| alterego | then ffmpeg | 13:25 |
| alterego | Just like the beagle board wiki page relly. | 13:25 |
| lcuk | hmm I wonder how we could simplify that and add a screenshot tool | 13:26 |
| lcuk | didn't hildon include one directly in the WM? | 13:27 |
| thiago_home | yeah | 13:30 |
| dm8tbr | can't you register key combinations with init? | 13:31 |
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| dm8tbr | just run a shell script that does the cat /dev/fb and the ffmpeg part | 13:31 |
| thiago_home | I don't think so | 13:31 |
| thiago_home | you can with X | 13:31 |
| dm8tbr | then in X :) | 13:32 |
| dm8tbr | or how about a nice QML app that allows you to set a delay and a series of screenshots | 13:33 |
| lbt | Stskeeps: spooky ... Denise was talking about doing that last night | 13:36 |
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| Stskeeps | lbt: seems like if you know basics of html, qml's pretty straightforward | 13:37 |
| lbt | *nod* ... the css side too | 13:37 |
| dm8tbr | if someone tells me how to compile qt mobility so I can develop on my laptop... | 13:38 |
| dm8tbr | or if someone tells me how to set up qt creator to allow deploying of QML to a device | 13:38 |
| * dm8tbr failed at both | 13:38 | |
| Stskeeps | lbt: and in that case, steer clear of the designer | 13:38 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 13:38 |
| dm8tbr | mh, or is it that for device deployment I'd need to wrap the QML in a Qt project? | 13:40 |
| Stskeeps | i think so, considering that qmlviewer isn't supposed to be more than a devel tool | 13:40 |
| thiago_home | dm8tbr: for full deployment, yes | 13:42 |
| thiago_home | qmlviewer isn't always deployed | 13:42 |
| dm8tbr | thiago_home: honestly, WHY even give the option to make a QML project then if you need to wrap it in Qt anyway. Or why not automate the wrapping part... | 13:44 |
| thiago_home | it should be done eventually | 13:44 |
| thiago_home | and there should be a runtime runner | 13:44 |
| alterego | There pretty much is | 13:45 |
| alterego | anyway, we have meego-qml-viewer | 13:45 |
| thiago_home | not secure | 13:45 |
| dm8tbr | this plus the fact that I can't even develop for qt-mobility on my desktop makes this look half-baked at best | 13:45 |
| thiago_home | the simulator should work on the desktop | 13:45 |
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| alterego | dm8tbr: something wrong with your desktop then :P | 13:46 |
| dm8tbr | alterego: no, qt mobility not included in the SDK | 13:47 |
| dm8tbr | http://bugreports.qt.nokia.com/browse/QTSDK-419 | 13:47 |
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| alterego | Oh, well just install the dev packages for your distro then .. | 13:47 |
| alterego | I might try and teach my bg qml at somepoint, but she gets bored easily :D | 13:48 |
| alterego | s/bg/gf/ | 13:48 |
| infobot | alterego meant: I might try and teach my gf qml at somepoint, but she gets bored easily :D | 13:48 |
| alterego | big g s her pet name .. | 13:49 |
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| alterego | Anyhow, I'm probably not going to be able to do much dialer work for a bit over a week whilst I send off my original N900 for repair :( | 13:50 |
| dm8tbr | alterego: is this documented anywhere? because I haven't found that part yet | 13:52 |
| toninikkanen | why don't you use the qt simulator? | 13:53 |
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| alterego | sim is probably better. | 13:55 |
| dm8tbr | is simulator the part with qemu? | 13:56 |
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| toninikkanen | no | 13:56 |
| toninikkanen | it's a desktop build that looks like a handset environment | 13:56 |
| dm8tbr | and that has qt mobility? | 13:56 |
| toninikkanen | http://doc.trolltech.com/qtsimulator-1.1/simulator-description.html | 13:56 |
| toninikkanen | yes | 13:56 |
| dm8tbr | ah, that's nice | 13:57 |
| dm8tbr | I'll have to figure out how to run a qml project on that | 13:57 |
| toninikkanen | and you get all kinds of buttons and dials you can tweak around to simulate stuff happening in the device sensors etc | 13:57 |
| dm8tbr | so far the only target it gave me was qmlviewer | 13:57 |
| alterego | Well, a QML Qt project runs on my desktop fine, if you have recent qt dev libs installed. | 13:58 |
| alterego | Mobility haven't really tried as most of that is very phone specific. | 13:59 |
| dm8tbr | mobility seems to be the only way to get sound in qml | 13:59 |
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| alterego | Ah, yeah, you need QtMultimedia | 13:59 |
| dm8tbr | qtmultimediakit was the name iirc, yes | 14:00 |
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| Clad | Hi ! | 14:57 |
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| Clad | As a enthusiast user, would it be time yet to upgrade maemo to meego on my N900 when 1.2 is released, or is it still only for developers ? | 15:00 |
| psycho_oreos | I think its still largely for developers | 15:01 |
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| Stskeeps | Clad: wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/DeveloperEdition | 15:02 |
| Clad | The version numbers used are a little bit confusing. End users should wait for what, 2.0 ? | 15:02 |
| Stskeeps | Clad: meego.com is a platform | 15:03 |
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| Stskeeps | there won't be any official upgrade to meego for n900 | 15:03 |
| Stskeeps | from nokia side | 15:03 |
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| Clad | Does that mean that it won't be suitable for even hobbyists ? | 15:04 |
| Stskeeps | Clad: you can read the description on 'DeveloperEdition' | 15:04 |
| Stskeeps | if that applies to you.. well, good :) | 15:04 |
| Stskeeps | i personally think it's getting closer to something i could technically use on a daily basis | 15:05 |
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| Clad | So you believe that the device would become obsolete anyway before Meego catch up to Maemo ? | 15:06 |
| Stskeeps | Clad: depends. in many ways it's better than maemo, but it's not as featureful. meego on n900 would be a open source device you can hack to your hearts extent, with basic features working fine | 15:07 |
| psycho_oreos | n900 is pretty much already obsolete without any possible successors till nokia says otherwise imo | 15:07 |
| Clad | psycho_oreos: I'd tend to think that as long as their in no successor, it's making it become obsolete slower. You know any other modern smartphone as hackable as the n900, released or planned ? | 15:08 |
| alterego | And a much higher maintained platform base | 15:08 |
| Clad | Stskeeps: thank you, that's exactly what I wanted to know | 15:08 |
| alterego | Kernel and all components are continually aligned with the most recent releases from upstream | 15:09 |
| psycho_oreos | Clad, nope, except for all the usual hypes of n9, n950 and whatever else rumours are spreading | 15:09 |
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| Clad | Anyhow, I am gonna give Meego a try then, I'll miss apt though, and the partial compatibility with Debian Arm, that's what I liked the most about Maemo. | 15:12 |
| psycho_oreos | there's zypper in place | 15:12 |
| psycho_oreos | it doesn't do everything or exactly as apt-* would do but its probably a lot faster than yum | 15:13 |
| Clad | I know, but I've been using debian for more than 10 years now. As good as rpm may be, it's hard to change habits | 15:13 |
| alterego | You don't have to stop using debian for the sake of MeeGo :P | 15:14 |
| alterego | I will still use debian on my servers and Ubuntu on my workstations | 15:14 |
| alterego | tbh, in the IT world, it's good to know both ;) | 15:15 |
| Stskeeps | Clad: try out the alpha release, see if it's something you like / see potential in, and contribute :) | 15:15 |
| Clad | Haha yeah I guess. The idea of a debian-like in the pocket was cool though. | 15:15 |
| Clad | I wish I could but I am nothing like an IT professional, the only programming language I know is 68000 ASM | 15:16 |
| alterego | Heh | 15:16 |
| Stskeeps | Clad: you can get very far with python and QML | 15:16 |
| alterego | Well, programmers aren't the only resource we need, we need translators, package maintainers, evangelists, all sorts of different people | 15:17 |
| alterego | We need people porting apps from Maemo to MeeGo now really. | 15:17 |
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| alterego | So we can start off running. | 15:17 |
| Clad | I don't have the first clue how to package or port. Translating I do from time to time though but no one really seems intrested in traditional chinese nowdays. | 15:19 |
| Stskeeps | meego's fairly big in asia :P | 15:19 |
| alterego | Learn QML though, | 15:21 |
| alterego | It's really easy, very flexible and kind of like web design only cooler :) | 15:21 |
| alterego | Then maybe look into using Python with QML when QML alone doesn't cut it :) | 15:22 |
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| Clad | I tried python once. Wasn't really impressed. Seems like a mess to deploy on windows or AmigaOS. | 15:24 |
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| mikhas | the MeeGo keyboard made it to slashdot: http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/11/04/30/137205/On-Screen-Keyboard-Maliit-Demoed-With-Gnome-3 | 16:18 |
| alterego | neet | 16:19 |
| alterego | -e +a | 16:19 |
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| alterego | Is that an exo? | 16:20 |
| alterego | Awesome .. | 16:20 |
| alterego | Oh, that gesture support is cool .. | 16:21 |
| mikhas | alterego, a WeTab | 16:21 |
| alterego | mikhas: meh, pretty much the same then :D | 16:21 |
| mikhas | so same hardware as ExoPC | 16:21 |
| mikhas | yep | 16:21 |
| mikhas | WeTab OS got nuked shortly after arrival | 16:21 |
| alterego | Oh, is it your vid? | 16:22 |
| mikhas | it's jonnor's | 16:22 |
| * alterego wants to see it portrait :P | 16:22 | |
| mikhas | me too | 16:22 |
| alterego | That is amazing though, | 16:22 |
| mikhas | I felt like a designer when doing the GNOME Shell theme in a couple of hours | 16:22 |
| alterego | :) | 16:22 |
| mikhas | compare that to the crappy theme we have on handset UX .. | 16:22 |
| mikhas | (for the keyboard) | 16:22 |
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| alterego | Yeah, that is impressive stuff, loks like gnome3 + maliik makes a really good tablet platform .. ^.^ | 16:24 |
| mikhas | not quite, GNOME folks need to catch up I feel, on tablets | 16:25 |
| maligor | yes, the Menubar is the best invention in tablet ergonomics since the sledgehammer | 16:26 |
| mikhas | it's also under the hood where stuff is missing | 16:26 |
| mikhas | GTK+ input context API feels limited when compared to Qt input context API, you are basically forced to use X11 directly there, for any kind of integration | 16:27 |
| alterego | woof | 16:27 |
| mikhas | integration that goes beyond sending the commit string, I mean | 16:27 |
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| mikhas | but it nearly feels as if no one else has really tried GNOME Shell on a tablet yet ... | 16:29 |
| mikhas | quite a bit of handwaving to then say that GNOME Shell is *ready* for tablets | 16:29 |
| berndhs | mikhas: that is ironic, because gnome3-shell is a tablet interface :) | 16:29 |
| mikhas | berndhs, try using it | 16:30 |
| mikhas | try changing window geometry | 16:30 |
| mikhas | try scrolling (no pannable widgets!) | 16:30 |
| mikhas | try ... anything | 16:30 |
| berndhs | i use it on my desktop, thats why I'm saying it is designed for tablets | 16:30 |
| mikhas | and tell me again it's a tablet UX | 16:30 |
| mikhas | then it's neither here nor there | 16:30 |
| berndhs | another possibility yes | 16:30 |
| berndhs | tablet-style with missing details for tablets | 16:31 |
| maligor | I think it feels more like a limited screensize desktop interface | 16:31 |
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| berndhs | maligor: perhaps a better description, yes | 16:31 |
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| Venemo_N900 | hey guys :) | 17:02 |
| ali1234 | unity and gnome-shell to me both feel like tablet UX designed by someone who hasnever used a tablet | 17:05 |
| ali1234 | "oh touch screen, let's just make the buttons really big and that should be enough right?" | 17:06 |
| Stskeeps | that didn't really work for maemo5 | 17:06 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 17:06 |
| Stskeeps | well, to some degree | 17:06 |
| Stskeeps | ok, maemo4 is more fair | 17:06 |
| Venemo_N900 | ali1234: Gnome 3 is not a tablet ux | 17:08 |
| Venemo_N900 | it is not (at all) optimized for touchscreen use | 17:08 |
| Venemo_N900 | nor for small screens | 17:08 |
| ali1234 | it is (not at all) optimized for desktop use either | 17:08 |
| maligor | nor for large screens | 17:08 |
| ali1234 | so what the hell is it? | 17:08 |
| Venemo_N900 | it works great on my laptop though | 17:08 |
| Venemo_N900 | well, works on my large screen :) | 17:09 |
| maligor | it sort of works if you get into the habit of using the shortcut for the overlay thing | 17:09 |
| Venemo_N900 | yea | 17:09 |
| Venemo_N900 | actually, gnome 3 has quite improved my workflow after I got used to it. | 17:10 |
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| maligor | I'm quite tempted to fix the gnome-panel to allow interactive configuration | 17:11 |
| Venemo_N900 | the only downside is that you'll need to read its "cheat sheet" in order to use it effectively | 17:11 |
| maligor | and 'fix' is infact the correct word | 17:11 |
| maligor | because it's plain broken now | 17:11 |
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| Venemo_N900 | you mean gnome-shell's panel? | 17:11 |
| maligor | no, the gnome-panel | 17:11 |
| Venemo_N900 | the old one? | 17:12 |
| maligor | the one in 3.0 | 17:12 |
| Venemo_N900 | aah, the "fallback mode"? | 17:12 |
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| maligor | it seems to have all the same features the 2.x panel does, but they decided to remove all the gui's so you can't edit it | 17:12 |
| maligor | aka.. wtf | 17:12 |
| Venemo_N900 | yea | 17:12 |
| Venemo_N900 | they dumbed it down | 17:12 |
| maligor | you can edit it from dconf | 17:13 |
| Venemo_N900 | haha | 17:13 |
| Venemo_N900 | anyway I don't use the fallback mode, so it's not a big deal of a problem for me | 17:13 |
| berndhs | i dont understand the design principle to make things easier by taking away all choices | 17:14 |
| Venemo_N900 | well yea, the fallback mode is kinda dumb | 17:15 |
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| Venemo_N900 | I very much like the new shell though. | 17:16 |
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| berndhs | i think some of their choices are wrong | 17:17 |
| berndhs | fixed panel on top is a bad choice more often than not | 17:18 |
| berndhs | icons are too big, text labels too small | 17:18 |
| Venemo_N900 | berndhs: actually, the shell is more customizable than you think | 17:18 |
| berndhs | yeah maybe i havent found it, or they dont advertise it very much | 17:18 |
| Venemo_N900 | one can write an extension in javascript and these extensions can pretty much do anything to it | 17:19 |
| berndhs | I actually *want* small status display in a panel-like grouping | 17:19 |
| berndhs | and better date formating | 17:19 |
| Venemo_N900 | well there is a status display in the top right | 17:19 |
| Venemo_N900 | and a system tray in the bottom right | 17:20 |
| berndhs | i want to put other stuff there, like CPU temp, network load, | 17:20 |
| Venemo_N900 | and there are a bunch of hidden features which are configurable via gconf/gsettings | 17:21 |
| berndhs | on thing thats wrong is the applications "button" is on one side of the screen, the menu is on the other | 17:21 |
| Venemo_N900 | actually noone has written a cpu load extension for the shell yet. but if they do, they could make it appear in the system status area | 17:21 |
| berndhs | maybe its jsut released a little too early | 17:23 |
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| Venemo_N900 | maybe | 17:25 |
| thiago_home | release early, release often | 17:26 |
| thiago_home | if you want until everything is perfect, you'll never release | 17:26 |
| Venemo_N900 | thiago_home ++ | 17:27 |
| thiago_home | been there, done that | 17:27 |
| berndhs | sure, now they can read all my complaints and improve things :) | 17:27 |
| * w00t_ agrees wholeheartedly | 17:27 | |
| Venemo_N900 | anyway, gnome people are still impriving their stuff. | 17:27 |
| Venemo_N900 | you can drop into their irc channels and give feedback | 17:27 |
| thiago_home | or come to the desktop summit | 17:28 |
| thiago_home | the program is looking great | 17:28 |
| thiago_home | which reminds me: if you have ideas of things you'd like to see at the meegoconf but don't see it in the schedule yet, mail me | 17:28 |
| thiago_home | include your suggestion for speaker too if you have | 17:28 |
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| thiago_home | we'll open the second CfP for late-breaking news soon | 17:29 |
| Venemo_N900 | thiago_home: is there any chance that the next meego conf is held in a place where an average person can attend it? | 17:29 |
| w00t_ | Venemo_N900: every location is difficult for someone | 17:29 |
| Venemo_N900 | sure, but both of the previous ones would have been difficult for me | 17:30 |
| w00t_ | so where wouldn't be difficult for you? | 17:30 |
| thiago_home | Venemo_N900: the next one should be in Europe | 17:31 |
| thiago_home | probably central | 17:31 |
| Venemo_N900 | w00t_: anywhere to where I can go without spending a whole month's salary to only get there | 17:31 |
| Venemo_N900 | central EU sounds good enough :) | 17:32 |
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| mikhas | release early? GNOME Shell is the result of 3 years of work already | 17:34 |
| thiago_home | yeah | 17:34 |
| thiago_home | but it could easily have been more | 17:34 |
| Venemo_N900 | mikhas: probably that's why they were so desparate to make a release | 17:34 |
| Venemo_N900 | anyway, I'm glad they haven't released earlier; the shell was horseshit even half a year ago | 17:35 |
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| Venemo_N900 | does this affect MeeGo? http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=linux_mobile_uffda&num=1 | 18:51 |
| thiago_home | no | 18:53 |
| thiago_home | we have no MeeGo release running 2.6.38 | 18:53 |
| dm8tbr | also this looks like tested for x86 only | 18:53 |
| thiago_home | yes, I guess that too | 18:54 |
| berndhs | and he likes the terms "regression" and "vicious" | 18:54 |
| dm8tbr | it's phoronix, what did you expect? | 18:57 |
| Venemo_N900 | would be interesting to see if anyone else can reproduce his tests | 18:57 |
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| akk | Hopefully when they change MeeGo kernels, power use testing is part of the decision process ... | 19:03 |
| Stskeeps | it is | 19:03 |
| akk | Good, thought it probably was. | 19:04 |
| Stskeeps | i mean, these are the former moblin guys, they take power seriously | 19:04 |
| Venemo_N900 | and former Maemo guys | 19:04 |
| Venemo_N900 | aren't they? | 19:04 |
| akk | Yeah, Intel/Moblin has done a lot for power use testing on regular Linux (powertop etc.) | 19:04 |
| Stskeeps | Venemo_N900: yeah | 19:05 |
| Venemo_N900 | :) | 19:05 |
| Venemo_N900 | this reminds me of something | 19:05 |
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| Venemo_N900 | DocScrutinizer and myself have recently discovered that the N900 accelerometer driver of MeeGo is kinda borked | 19:06 |
| thiago_home | jitter? | 19:06 |
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| Stskeeps | that's not recently, Doc has been complaining about it for ages :) | 19:06 |
| Stskeeps | and the problem is in the linux kernel, so the discussion should go on there | 19:07 |
| Venemo_N900 | sure, but it was only about a week ago when I saw it myself | 19:07 |
| Venemo_N900 | apart from the driver constantly polling the accelerometer 20 times/sec, there is a greater issue. | 19:07 |
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| Venemo_N900 | the accelerometer could be programmed in such a way that it could send interrupt requests when the orientation changes. so there would be no need to poll it at all (unless an app needs the raw accel.erometer data of course) | 19:11 |
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| Stskeeps | right, the interesting question is why it's not in upstream then | 19:13 |
| Stskeeps | i mean, it is a pretty universal driver | 19:13 |
| Venemo_N900 | yeah. and actually, even the driver in Maemo is better that that in upstream | 19:13 |
| Venemo_N900 | so Stskeeps, where should we raise this discussion? | 19:14 |
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| Stskeeps | the linux kernel mailing list? can't recall what section the accelerometer is in | 19:15 |
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| Venemo_N900 | mhm | 19:16 |
| Venemo_N900 | if we could fix this, it may also have an effect on the N900's battery life | 19:16 |
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| mikhas | thiago_home, changing to commercial license changes Qt API? really? | 19:17 |
| Stskeeps | right - well, it's also about intelligent behaviour of the accelerometer | 19:17 |
| Stskeeps | like, the userland parts | 19:17 |
| piggz | are there any cheap chinese tablets that can run meego? | 19:18 |
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| akk | Somebody's working on a port to Archos tablets (French, not Chinese, but they're cheap). I think it's still alpha, though. | 19:19 |
| Venemo_N900 | yeah, that's smoku | 19:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yes, the userland parts for g-meter need to configure things like highpass, threshold and IRQ properly. The kernel driver needs to expose the API for doing so, and needs to take care about actual hw IRQ triggering userland handling if the event. This can either be implemented by using kevents/uevents as an integral part of sysfs design, or by kernel driver exposing a /dev/input device for g-meter events | 19:40 |
| Venemo_N900 | indeed | 19:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer | if the kernel driver lacks those API bits, no whatever cute userland process can fix the issue | 19:42 |
| Venemo_N900 | DocScrutinizer ++ | 19:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | otoh you can't fix a borked API without patching/fixing the userland as well | 19:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer | any ciao, I know my comments aren't welcome here, as many are already fed up by them | 19:44 |
| Stskeeps | they're more than welcome here, but you and me both know that the right place to discuss those things are the linux kernel mailing list | 19:44 |
| Venemo_N900 | Stskeeps, do you happen to be subscribed to that mailing list? | 19:48 |
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| Stskeeps | Venemo_N900: no, because i'm not a kernel developer, but i do peek in once in a while. long story short: the driver modifications/changes/discussions should happen in the linux kernel as if we just keep a seperate fork for one version of the linux kernel, for the n900, we're screwed when we want to upgrade kernel | 19:49 |
| Stskeeps | upstream first is one of the principles of meego, because we don't want to take all those components and fork them | 19:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | fair enough, good point | 19:50 |
| Stskeeps | (and that the same driver is used by multiple devices, as far as i recall) | 19:50 |
| Venemo_N900 | Stskeeps, good point, but I'm not a kernel developer either | 19:50 |
| Venemo_N900 | does MeeGo have a kernel developer? | 19:50 |
| Stskeeps | it has several, but i guess you mean for meego n900? | 19:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I guess he meant for meego on platforms with LIS302 | 19:52 |
| Venemo_N900 | I mean anyone who could bring up this specific issue on that mailing list. | 19:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | which could be arbitrary tablets and laptops as well, for freefall detection | 19:52 |
| Stskeeps | Venemo_N900: 'kimju' is our kernel maintainer, but generally it's best not to use a middleman :P | 19:52 |
| Venemo_N900 | hehe | 19:53 |
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| Santer | u | 19:55 |
| Santer | mm | 19:55 |
| Venemo_N900 | Stskeeps: if you find me the correct mailing list, I'll write to it when I get home | 19:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'll ask why OM/OE lis302 driver never went upstream | 19:59 |
| Stskeeps | probably a good place to start | 19:59 |
| Venemo_N900 | DocScrutinizer: did OM send it upstream? | 19:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | just asking | 20:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | no idea yet | 20:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | I think it went up to open-embedded | 20:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | have to find details | 20:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | (also no kernel maintainer here) | 20:01 |
| Venemo_N900 | DocScrutinizer: does OM's driver have the functionality we've been talking about? | 20:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer | afaict yes | 20:01 |
| Venemo_N900 | even highway mode? | 20:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | highpass? | 20:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | not sure | 20:02 |
| Venemo_N900 | yes, highpass it is | 20:02 |
| Venemo_N900 | sorry | 20:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm about to ask where's the recent sources, and what's the plans and state about getting them upstream, then I'll scrutinize them | 20:02 |
| Venemo_N900 | also, you mentioned once that the lis302 could send irqs only if there is an orientation change. | 20:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes | 20:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's the whole idea behind it | 20:03 |
| Venemo_N900 | actually, that would be a huge win imo | 20:03 |
| Ronksu | it can do it, but setting the thresholds is quite tricky | 20:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | Ronksu: set highpass on to suppress absolute values and trigger on any arbitrary change, then read out absolute values and decide about current orientation | 20:04 |
| Venemo_N900 | I'm just saying because most of the time telling the device orientation is the only use for the accelerometer | 20:05 |
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| Ronksu | DocScrutinizer: ah, trigger on any arbitrary change is quite alright | 20:05 |
| Venemo_N900 | so we could spare ourselves the polling of it, which would then have a positive impact on cpu use and battery life. | 20:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | Ronksu: wouldn't trigger if you tie the device to the hands of a clock, but that'S a unusual usecase | 20:06 |
| Ronksu | sure, that slow movement can be ignored | 20:06 |
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| Ronksu | would be nice to have it like that. | 20:07 |
| ali1234 | sounds like how the old version of meego worked | 20:08 |
| ali1234 | where you rotate it, and then you have to vigorously shake it to make it recognize that orientation changed | 20:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | set better parameters for highpass cutoff freq and threshold then | 20:10 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I think the theoretical sesitivity is in the range of 60s/90° | 20:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer | btw I've encountered such behaviour when the lis302 got decalibrated (probably by some race on I2C bus resulting in bogus commands) and thus had a huge offset on some axis and needed a reboot to make driver reset the chip's engine | 20:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | (on maemo that is) | 20:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | (maemo driver also doesn't use highpass and only looks on absolute values of X and Y) | 20:14 |
| Venemo_N900 | so if OM's driver is that good, why did Nokia decide to write their own? | 20:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | I think maemo5 and OM were concurrent development | 20:15 |
| Ronksu | sounds quite likely, although I haven't been around in maemo5 times | 20:16 |
| Venemo_N900 | DocScrutinizer: OM is a bit older, isn't it? | 20:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | maybe a lil bit | 20:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | though I dunno when maemo5 development inside Nokia actually took place | 20:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Venemo_N900: <to_whom_it_may_concern>: http://git.openmoko.org/?p=kernel.git;a=blob;f=drivers/input/misc/lis302dl.c;h=d345bfb2718fba6c96c7a27d83b53c0a35c9d064;hb=andy-tracking | 20:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | <DocScrutinizer> PaulFertser: do you know by any chance if and why our driver never hit mainstream | 20:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer: i guess that's because nobody ever cared enough | 20:21 |
| Stskeeps | heh | 20:21 |
| Stskeeps | that happens in open source projects too | 20:21 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 20:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm going to inspect that driver for quality | 20:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | then suggest to get it upstream if it's ok for that | 20:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | *eventually* - not today | 20:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | afaik it's following the /dev/input scheme for API, so this would be the preferable implementation in my book | 20:24 |
| Venemo_N900 | DocScrutinizer: sounds like good news to me | 20:25 |
| npm | re: "we have no MeeGo release running 2.6.38" ... depends on how you parse release... i'm running 2.6.38.2-8.2-adaptation-pinetrail but it's power consumption seems ok (re : http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=linux_mobile_uffda&num=1 ) | 20:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer | it might be, depending on actual quality of that implementation, and whether I can talk somebody into "taking care to get it upstream" | 20:26 |
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| npm | ^^^ catching up to a few hours ago statement by thiago_home | 20:28 |
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| Venemo_N900 | npm: thx | 20:31 |
| Venemo_N900 | DocScrutinizer: it would be nice if you could talk some sense into those guys and get it to upstream | 20:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Venemo_N900: <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer: it would take someone who understands kernel programming reasonably well to stand up as a maintainer and "defender" for that version, especially given there's other with an incompatible api. | 20:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | bottom line: we're screwed as there's been a crappy implementation and nobody who's interested in getting a better one and willing to take the effort | 20:34 |
| Venemo_N900 | hmm | 20:35 |
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| npm | of course if i run gkrellm(1)'s so i can see its battery plugin, then of course the battery life decreases more quickly... | 20:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | my effort is limited to scrutinizing and evaluation what we got on om git, and reporting here | 20:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | o/ | 20:36 |
| Venemo_N900 | well DocScrutinizer, I would volunteer to take the effort if I had enough knowledge. | 20:38 |
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| Venemo | good evening everyone :) | 20:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | Venemo_N900: * TODO * configuration interface (sysfs) for * * high pass filter parameters | 20:40 |
| Venemo | Venemo_N900, go away | 20:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer | http://git.openmoko.org/?p=kernel.git;a=blob;f=drivers/input/misc/lis302dl.c;h=d345bfb2718fba6c96c7a27d83b53c0a35c9d064;hb=andy-tracking#l26 | 20:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer | so each implementation lacks some bits | 20:41 |
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| Venemo | seems that this one lacks less bits than others | 20:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | some are aware of the lacking bits, some are braindead stupid by design | 20:42 |
| Venemo | yeah, you could put it that way too DocScrutinizer :P | 20:42 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer, as I recall, the upstream driver even admits in its comments how stupid it is | 20:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes | 20:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's explicitly designed for joysticks only | 20:47 |
| Venemo | thp, ping | 20:49 |
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| white_gecko | hello | 20:51 |
| Stskeeps | hi | 20:51 |
| Venemo | hello | 20:51 |
| white_gecko | what is the difference between oaktrail and pinetrail? | 20:52 |
| white_gecko | http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/trunk/1.1.99.4.20110426.4/images/ | 20:52 |
| white_gecko | for the tablet | 20:52 |
| Stskeeps | two different chipset targets? | 20:52 |
| white_gecko | ok | 20:52 |
| white_gecko | which one is for the exopc? | 20:52 |
| Stskeeps | pinetrail, i think | 20:54 |
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| RST38h | Oaktrail > Pinetrail ? | 20:55 |
| RST38h | Oaktrail=tablets while Pinetrail=netbooks ? | 20:55 |
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| npm | isn't the exopc an n45* and therefore pinetrail? | 20:56 |
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| npm | with naming conventions like that, we're lead down the garden path.... | 20:56 |
| RST38h | Names come from geo locations in Oregon AFAIK | 20:58 |
| npm | turns out the french military stole nokia's name: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Op%C3%A9ration_Harmattan | 21:00 |
| npm | :-) | 21:00 |
| Ronksu | :D | 21:00 |
| Stskeeps | how many died? | 21:00 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 21:00 |
| RST38h | Nokia used wind names for its Maemo releases | 21:00 |
| npm | perhaps obscure oregon trail names are less likely to be used as military operation names | 21:01 |
| npm | military operations involving weather names are a bad idea :-) | 21:01 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: At least one son of Quaddafi and two grandsons. Counting though. | 21:01 |
| npm | c.f. blitzkrie | 21:01 |
| npm | g | 21:01 |
| thiago_home | mikhas: no, it doesn't change the API | 21:02 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: The guy appears to be quite a stud, given the number of his offspring being spotted in the action | 21:02 |
| npm | being a dictator is like being a rabbit... you have to reproduce a lot to ensure some survive | 21:03 |
| RST38h | npm: not suggesting to increase the chances one of your children deposes you though? | 21:04 |
| berndhs | used to be the sport of kings, hunting relatives | 21:04 |
| npm | well a good dictator never would let that happen | 21:04 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: you prevent that by having many, so they'll be tired from fighting amongst themseves | 21:06 |
| RST38h | Goood idea! | 21:06 |
| RST38h | Obligatory illustration: http://kazakdesign.com/files/images/no_publish/2011/oil_war.jpg | 21:07 |
| berndhs | a lot cheaper to buy the oil | 21:08 |
| RST38h | Do not assume any of these characters are wise, reasonable,or even sane. | 21:08 |
| npm | http://www.zeenews.com/news698907.html "Young Gaddafi was once a sex symbol in Lanka" | 21:08 |
| Stskeeps | right, we're going a bit off topic | 21:08 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 21:08 |
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| RST38h | Stskeeps: Ah, wake me up once there is a Meego phone I can buy =) | 21:09 |
| npm | maybe if you move to china | 21:11 |
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| npm | is there even space for another handset platform... other than one that bubbles up from the bottom, due to lowest cost/pricing? | 21:12 |
| berndhs | there is always room at the top :) | 21:12 |
| RST38h | Too deep, my crystal balls cannot answer thart | 21:13 |
| RST38h | What they CAN tell though is that neither iOS nor Android have nothing to be afraid of Meego though | 21:14 |
| npm | the top is not profitable unless you get "cachet" in the public eye ala apple or mercedes/bmw/etc | 21:14 |
| RST38h | Lots of assumptions here | 21:14 |
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| berndhs | well, if its actually better, marketing has a chance to explain that | 21:14 |
| RST38h | Forget all this stuff. Just ask yourself this: | 21:15 |
| Venemo | RST38h, iOS probably indeed doesn't, but Android has, if MeeGo will be good enough. | 21:16 |
| RST38h | You come to the store (BestBuy, MediaMarkt, whatever) and see a bunch of phones on sale | 21:16 |
| RST38h | There is a bunch with Android, one or two with WP7, and an iPhone | 21:16 |
| white_gecko | ok i put the meego-tablet-ia32-pinetrail-1.1.99.4.20110426.4.img to my pendrive | 21:16 |
| mikhas | thiago_home, then I dont get what Arjan means. | 21:16 |
| npm | you can always do "boutique consulting" around esoteric stuff, but w/r/t selling devices the bell-curve probably holds true... | 21:16 |
| white_gecko | and set the bootable flag with fdisk | 21:16 |
| RST38h | Throw in a Meego phone into this bunch. WHAT should it have to make you absolute buy it? | 21:17 |
| thiago_home | mikhas: it's not the commecrial license, it's the compliance | 21:17 |
| white_gecko | but when i select the pendrive to boot from i get "Operating System Missing" | 21:17 |
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| thiago_home | mikhas: if you want to be compliant, you have to use our version, including our patches | 21:17 |
| RST38h | Task #2: Same situation, but all the phones look more or less the same physically | 21:17 |
| Stskeeps | is there a difference in the tarballs between 'commercial' and opensource qt? | 21:17 |
| berndhs | prettier phone, better call quality, better contract,... | 21:17 |
| RST38h | So that you are competing only on the merits of the software | 21:17 |
| thiago_home | Stskeeps: yes, one or two files. The absence of the opensource license in the commercial tarball. | 21:18 |
| Stskeeps | thiago_home: ah | 21:18 |
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| RST38h | berndhs: pretty much the same hw | 21:18 |
| RST38h | Same 2-3 providers, so same contracts | 21:18 |
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| berndhs | RST38h: how many customers even know that something runs android ? | 21:18 |
| RST38h | berndhs: I am not assuming that you KNOW what brick runs what | 21:18 |
| berndhs | they know apple, but the rest looks all the same | 21:18 |
| Venemo | [20:17] <RST38h> Throw in a Meego phone into this bunch. WHAT should it have to make you absolute buy it? ---> depends on the target audience. | 21:18 |
| npm | berndhs: most -- they've been pitched w/ google advertising for a few years | 21:18 |
| RST38h | berndhs: But you know how Android UI looks like. How will you differ? | 21:19 |
| berndhs | for the rest its the phone manufacturer brand | 21:19 |
| npm | and billboards w/ 'droid' product placement | 21:19 |
| thiago_home | unless it's a modified UI, like HTC or Samsung's | 21:19 |
| RST38h | Ok, so, as you can see, none of you can come up with an answer to my question, even for an easier case #1 | 21:19 |
| npm | the thing that'll make me buy it is open-ness, and price. | 21:19 |
| npm | but that's what the operators may prevent | 21:20 |
| berndhs | i would establish an identity for my product | 21:20 |
| RST38h | All I am getting is "depends on auditory", "depends on contract", "depends on marketing" | 21:20 |
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| npm | so can someone sell a dirt cheap unlocked meego phone that doesn't have a lot of gloss | 21:20 |
| RST38h | To sell a device, you have to make it BETTER than the other devices. How can Meego achieve that? | 21:20 |
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| RST38h | npm: Android starts at $200 sans contract. End of story. | 21:21 |
| npm | by being open (c.f. tracking news of late) | 21:21 |
| RST38h | "Open" does not sell stuff. | 21:21 |
| Venemo | RST38h, better and more customizable UX, better customer care, more stable OS. | 21:21 |
| RST38h | "Red" sells more units than "Open" :) | 21:21 |
| npm | well in the world of audio/video and music for example, android does not allow realtime audio synch | 21:22 |
| RST38h | Venemo: "My phone is reliable and I like HTC service" (C)customer | 21:22 |
| npm | whereas meego could | 21:22 |
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| npm | so for a certain segment of the market that cares about that, it can be a differentiator | 21:22 |
| RST38h | Heh... Where is Arkanoid when you need him... | 21:22 |
| RST38h | npm: How big a segment? You, me, and 500 other geeks? | 21:23 |
| Venemo | RST38h, let me pick one example. I heard about a bunch of android phones that used data connections even though they were explicitly set not to do that. then of course the owners received an enormously high bill at the end of the month. | 21:23 |
| Venemo | RST38h, also there are hardware issues with HTC and their shit, and so on. | 21:23 |
| Venemo | RST38h, there always will be customers for a MeeGo device, as long as it is good enough. | 21:24 |
| npm | RST38h: not necessarily. people expect their video sound to track the picture | 21:24 |
| thiago_home | RST38h: MeeGo doesn't sell. If a company wants to ship a MeeGo device, it's their business to make sure it sells. | 21:24 |
| RST38h | Venemo: you know betterthan me that 99% people do not know and/or care about their phone reporting on them to the Man | 21:24 |
| npm | people doing creative/capture work will be sensitive to synchronization issues | 21:24 |
| RST38h | thiago: Cool. Now, imagine you are such a company. How would you differentiate your Meego device from Android, WP7, iOS, etc | 21:24 |
| npm | and android is a total no-go | 21:24 |
| thiago_home | RST38h: there are several strategies | 21:25 |
| thiago_home | RST38h: bundling of nice apps | 21:25 |
| RST38h | thiago: And, to complicate things, your hardware is more or less the same as android | 21:25 |
| thiago_home | RST38h: cheap phones | 21:25 |
| npm | on realtime audio -- i'm on a list devoted to the topic | 21:25 |
| RST38h | thiago: Ok. More? | 21:25 |
| thiago_home | RST38h: better deals with operators | 21:25 |
| RST38h | More? | 21:25 |
| thiago_home | RST38h: making sure it has a kick-ass UI | 21:25 |
| npm | http://music.columbia.edu/pipermail/andraudio/ | 21:25 |
| RST38h | Anything else? | 21:25 |
| thiago_home | RST38h: I'm not part of Nokia's Markets team | 21:25 |
| mikeleib | thiago_home: talks about meego, right? | 21:25 |
| Venemo | RST38h, sure, but people care about their monthly bill | 21:25 |
| thiago_home | I'm an engineer | 21:25 |
| berndhs | make sure it has *your* brand, not the android brand | 21:26 |
| npm | sure... the recent skype application on android issue | 21:26 |
| RST38h | thiago: Not asking you as a marketing person, just humor mefor a bit | 21:26 |
| thiago_home | RST38h: if you want, I can put you in contact with my colleagues from the office. | 21:26 |
| RST38h | Venemo: there is a cap, and it gets under the cap | 21:26 |
| npm | where credential theft occurred despite androids security | 21:26 |
| thiago_home | RST38h: can you tell me what kinds of paint blend better to make a picture? | 21:26 |
| Venemo | RST38h, well for the people I've been talking about, it wasn't. | 21:26 |
| npm | perhaps meego smack labelling in conjunction w/ such closed apps could solve the issue better? | 21:26 |
| RST38h | thiago: same kind, of different colors | 21:26 |
| thiago_home | RST38h: I'm talking about painting. Are you a painter? | 21:27 |
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| thiago_home | RST38h: can you tell me what makes a painting be more valuable than others? | 21:27 |
| RST38h | thiago: I am not a painter but I know a few things that stay constant whether you are a painter or not | 21:27 |
| RST38h | thiago: yes I can | 21:27 |
| Venemo | RST38h, for most of the customers, the OS doesn't matter as long as it can do the things that they expect it to do. that's all to this matter. | 21:27 |
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| RST38h | thiago: But let us not stary from the topic of this channel, should we? | 21:27 |
| npm | actually it's all about apps | 21:28 |
| thiago_home | RST38h: I'm pointing out that Markets is not my job | 21:28 |
| npm | it has nothing to do w/ platform per se | 21:28 |
| thiago_home | RST38h: I can give you a few ideas, but ultimately I might be completely wrong. | 21:28 |
| thiago_home | RST38h: I'm an engineer. | 21:28 |
| npm | platform w/ most apps and most users wins | 21:28 |
| npm | just ask windows | 21:28 |
| Venemo | RST38h, if you can give me a MeeGo device with a good outlook, good CPU and a decent battery life, I'll buy. | 21:28 |
| RST38h | thiago: Ok, got it, will omityour from this discussion. | 21:28 |
| RST38h | Ok, let us see what has been said so far: | 21:29 |
| thiago_home | RST38h: are you qualified to discuss it? | 21:29 |
| lcuk | npm a keyboard has no expandable apps and is in use in far more areas than windows. | 21:29 |
| RST38h | thiago: I am qualified to discuss anything I want | 21:29 |
| thiago_home | anyone here has studied what sells in the mobile phone market? | 21:29 |
| mikeleib | thiago_home: is an all knowing robot who never sleeps | 21:29 |
| mikhas | marketing sells | 21:29 |
| thiago_home | RST38h: right. That doesn't make you right. | 21:29 |
| RST38h | 1) Low cost: Android phones start around $200, so nogo here | 21:29 |
| mikhas | that, and ... more marketing | 21:29 |
| thiago_home | RST38h: you can discuss anything you want. That doesn't make your opinion right. | 21:29 |
| * RST38h sighs | 21:30 | |
| Venemo | RST38h, only low-end android (crappy screen, crappy CPU) sell for $200 | 21:30 |
| mikhas | I have studied the Apple stocks, therefore I am qualified | 21:30 |
| * lcuk enthralled to see activity on the channel :) | 21:30 | |
| RST38h | Venemo: Correct. | 21:30 |
| thiago_home | and when you discuss something you have no knowledge about, it just makes you look like a fool. | 21:30 |
| RST38h | Venemo: Will you be able to make a higher-specced device for the same cost, given that Android is free for OEMs? | 21:30 |
| npm | what about lower cost than the android phones. don't they have closed drivers in there that cost money per unit sold? | 21:30 |
| RST38h | npm: AFAIK no | 21:30 |
| Venemo | RST38h, MeeGo is free for OEMs too | 21:30 |
| * thiago_home will instead go make dinner | 21:30 | |
| akk | Maemo devices ewre really expensive. Would be great if there were some cheap meego devices eventually. | 21:31 |
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| RST38h | Venemo: So, neither Meego nor Android will contribute to the unit cost, significantly anyway | 21:31 |
| npm | isn't android actually "closing" right now s.t. only big handset mfgrs will have access to code? | 21:31 |
| RST38h | Venemo: And this, unfortunately, means that you won't be able to make a cheaper higher-specced device | 21:31 |
| Venemo | RST38h, I've just realized what is it that you view from the wrong viewpoint | 21:31 |
| RST38h | Venemo: ? | 21:31 |
| * lcuk goes drinking beer | 21:31 | |
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| Venemo | RST38h, MeeGo is targeting OEMs, not end users. | 21:32 |
| RST38h | Venemo: So does Android | 21:32 |
| Venemo | indeed. | 21:32 |
| Venemo | RST38h, now imagine that you are an OEM. | 21:32 |
| RST38h | Ok | 21:32 |
| npm | imho that's part of the problem .... other distros don't target just oems or just users | 21:33 |
| Venemo | RST38h, as an OEM, you want to stand out from the crowd. offer something different than your competitors. | 21:33 |
| RST38h | and what will you offer? | 21:33 |
| Venemo | RST38h, so if MeeGo provides a good way to 1) customize the UX 2) develop for the device then it will be a good choice for any OEM that wants something different. | 21:34 |
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| RST38h | Venemo: Are you aware that all the major ANdroid OEMs (Samsung, Moto, HTC, even Dell) customize their UX? | 21:34 |
| Venemo | RST38h, indeed | 21:34 |
| npm | aren't there a bunch of cheap n900 clones for like $100 (w/ less memory)... why can't they make the next meego phone :-) | 21:34 |
| RST38h | SO, still no difference here | 21:34 |
| * mikeleib goes for lunch and beer | 21:34 | |
| Venemo | RST38h, this is why MeeGo needs to have that feature too | 21:35 |
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| RST38h | npm:Nope. | 21:35 |
| Venemo | RST38h, anyway, Android customizations aren't that big. I haven't really seen two android UXes that didn't look alike. | 21:35 |
| RST38h | You are still not answering what will make me (as a stupid average customer) choose a Meego device over androids etc | 21:35 |
| npm | RST38h: http://mobile.engadget.com/2009/09/29/keepin-it-real-fake-part-ccxxxvi-nokia-n900-rip-shows-no-trad/ | 21:35 |
| Venemo | RST38h, this is the part that you are not getting. | 21:35 |
| berndhs | RST38h: you wont know if its meego or android, and you wont care | 21:36 |
| Venemo | RST38h, stupid average customer doesn't care about the OS!!! | 21:36 |
| dm8tbr | KIRFs usually run S60 | 21:36 |
| * dm8tbr is with Venemo on this one | 21:36 | |
| Venemo | RST38h, stupid average customer cares about his specific needs | 21:36 |
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| Venemo | RST38h, for example, he may want a device with good email capabilities. or a good camera. or a good messaging experience. whatever. | 21:37 |
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| Venemo | RST38h, for example if MeeGo has an e-mail client that is more responsible, quicker and looks better than android ones, then the users who are looking for a device with a good e-mail experience will buy the MeeGo device | 21:38 |
| Venemo | RST38h, but they won't buy it because it has the name 'MeeGo' on it. they'll buy for the feautres. | 21:38 |
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| npm | well they might buy it for the "MeeGo" if a consumer name-recognition initiative was started like it was for "droid" | 21:40 |
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| npm | people are stupid.. if they see a name enough times they'll buy it even if it's crap. | 21:41 |
| npm | it's advertising 101 from back in the '20's | 21:41 |
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| npm | just ask any politician :-/ | 21:42 |
| akk | Can I interject a development question? Is it possible in qtcreator to add additional files to the RPM, like the appname.desktop file and icon? | 21:43 |
| akk | I haven't found anything with google that mentions that at all. Alternately, is there a decent howto on cmdline development for meego? | 21:44 |
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| Venemo | akk, I dunno if Qt Creator creates rpms at all | 22:00 |
| Venemo | akk, but you could very easily do that yourself for any rpm | 22:00 |
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| akk | It does generate them -- it can even ssh copy them to the remote meego device and run them. | 22:00 |
| Venemo | impressive | 22:00 |
| akk | But it doesn't show me the rpm spec files or anything. | 22:00 |
| Venemo | maybe try the INSTALLS variable in your .pro file | 22:01 |
| akk | It's INSTALLS=target so I'm not really sure what that's doing. | 22:01 |
| akk | Probably the thing to do is give up on qtcreator and figure out how to build qt projects from the cmdline. I'll want to do that eventually anyway. | 22:02 |
| thp | Venemo: pong | 22:02 |
| akk | But it's funny that the "simple development with GUI" tutorials never get as far as telling you how to make something that a user could run on the meego device. | 22:02 |
| akk | (Maybe if you use the appup api or something it magically puts that in for you) | 22:02 |
| Venemo | thp, can I pm you? it's a bit OT in this channel | 22:03 |
| thp | Venemo: sure | 22:03 |
| Venemo | akk, see INSTALLS in here: http://gitorious.org/colorful-apps/puzzle-master/blobs/master/puzzle-master.pro | 22:03 |
| Venemo | akk, not sure if Qt Creator picks it up and brings it to the rpm, but it definitely _should_ | 22:05 |
| Venemo | akk, also see http://doc.qt.nokia.com/4.6/qmake-variable-reference.html#installs | 22:05 |
| akk | Oh, cool! Thanks, Venemo, I'll try that. | 22:05 |
| Venemo | akk, if Qt Creator doesn't pick it up, I have an rpm .spec file too that you could review and make your own :) | 22:06 |
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| akk | Is there a standard size for meego desktop icons? | 22:10 |
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| Venemo | dunno | 22:15 |
| Venemo | akk, btw, does my idea work? | 22:15 |
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| akk | Venemo: Still setting it up, should know in a few minutes. | 22:17 |
| akk | I have to make a .desktop file, think I have the rest done. | 22:17 |
| Venemo | ok | 22:18 |
| Venemo | akk, http://gitorious.org/colorful-apps/puzzle-master/blobs/master/data/puzzle-master.desktop | 22:18 |
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| akk | No -- maybe I did something wrong, but it didn't install anything in /usr/share/pixmaps or /usr/share/applications | 22:22 |
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| Venemo | akk, pastebin your .pro file | 22:31 |
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| akk | http://pastebin.com/P81qCeFA | 22:34 |
| akk | The data/ dir is in the same directory as the .cpp files and the .pro file, and it does have those two files inside. | 22:35 |
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| akk | Three files, I mean -- actually index.html wasn't there (the code isn't using it yet) but it is now. | 22:38 |
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| akk | Aha! I think I found the problem. | 22:40 |
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| akk | qtcreator created a shallowsky-build-meego parallel to the regular source directory the first time I built the app | 22:40 |
| akk | and apparently if that dir is already there, it never copies new files to it | 22:40 |
| akk | but when I removed the dir, it regenerated it and included the new files | 22:40 |
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| sobczyk | hi, will the developer realease of meego for n900 support skype? (voice mainly) | 22:41 |
| Venemo | akk, that's nice | 22:42 |
| Venemo | sobczyk, skype is a closed source thing. so if skype decides to compile their shit for MeeGo DE and makes it free of charge, then yes. otherwise nope. | 22:42 |
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| akk | Meego could really use some boot feedback when it does fsck. | 23:07 |
| * akk stares at a black screen with a blinking cursor, guessing at what it's most like doing | 23:07 | |
| akk | likely | 23:07 |
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| thiago_home | it shouldn't need to fsck | 23:09 |
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| mikhas | heh, has fsck actually ever helped to *restore* data? | 23:15 |
| mikhas | whenever fsck found some problems on my partitions, I knew that my best bet was to actually abort fsck and copy the data to a new disk, instead of letting fsck do its job ... | 23:16 |
| thiago_home | the best it does is complete deletion of deleted inodes | 23:17 |
| thiago_home | deleted but still open at the time of the crash | 23:17 |
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| akk | okay, I guess it's doing something else when it sits for a minute on a blinking cursor after a crash. | 23:22 |
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| Serio__ | hello fellow mmeeeegggoooos | 23:27 |
| Serio__ | if we have a prototype of the exopc for developement but does not have windows 7, can we with the license get a free copy? | 23:29 |
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| Serio__ | of course down load from the net any sites? | 23:29 |
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| thiago_home | Serio__: we don't care about windows 7 | 23:30 |
| Myrtti | surely you realize this is the meego channel... | 23:31 |
| Serio__ | neither do i rm /th/ | 23:31 |
| Serio__ | the thing is to sell it | 23:31 |
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| Myrtti | you are forbidden to sell it by the agreement signed | 23:32 |
| Venemo | [22:29] <Serio__> if we have a prototype of the exopc for developement | 23:32 |
| Myrtti | when you got it | 23:32 |
| Venemo | for development? or for sale? | 23:32 |
| Myrtti | if it is the intel device | 23:32 |
| berndhs | Serio__: dont sell it, send it to me, I need one :) | 23:32 |
| Serio__ | do you know if the new linux distro supports touch? | 23:33 |
| Serio__ | 11.4 | 23:33 |
| Myrtti | the new linix distro? errrr | 23:33 |
| Serio__ | linux is better | 23:33 |
| Venemo | Serio__, which distro? | 23:33 |
| Myrtti | you mean the new release of ubuntu? | 23:33 |
| Serio__ | the long term that just came out | 23:33 |
| Venemo | I thought this is a MeeGo channel | 23:34 |
| Serio__ | they had a party in sf ca | 23:34 |
| Myrtti | lts ubuntu came last year | 23:34 |
| Venemo | noone here cares about nor Windows 7, neither Ubuntu | 23:34 |
| Serio__ | yeah and meego is based on linux | 23:34 |
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| keks-n | Hi | 23:34 |
| keks-n | I'm trying to compile the kernel | 23:34 |
| Serio__ | do ur homework | 23:34 |
| keks-n | lol | 23:34 |
| Serio__ | keks yeah thats a good work to do | 23:35 |
| keks-n | -_- | 23:35 |
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| Myrtti | Serio__: I think you have skipped some classes yourself | 23:35 |
| keks-n | I just want to change the kernel command line | 23:35 |
| keks-n | It's hardcoded in the config | 23:36 |
| Venemo | keks-n, ignore that guy. | 23:36 |
| Serio__ | user memory seperated from the kernal memory running different processes in the cores of the atom | 23:36 |
| keks-n | But I'm unfortunately a newbie in cross-compiling | 23:36 |
| Venemo | Serio__, what is a 'kernal'? | 23:36 |
| keks-n | Tried to compile in the scratchbox, but failed | 23:36 |
| Venemo | http://wiki.meego.com/Recompile_kernel | 23:37 |
| Serio__ | its the root/base that seperates the hardware and software | 23:37 |
| Venemo | http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_kernel_documentation_for_contributors | 23:37 |
| Venemo | Serio__, nope | 23:37 |
| Venemo | Serio__, that is a 'kernel', and not a 'kernal' | 23:37 |
| keks-n | I've already read it | 23:38 |
| Serio__ | childs play | 23:38 |
| keks-n | Now I have the patched source tree | 23:38 |
| keks-n | I've copied the config from config-arm-generic-n900 | 23:38 |
| keks-n | And typed make bzImage modules | 23:38 |
| Venemo | keks-n, Stskeeps may be a person who can help, he is working on the N900 adaptation | 23:39 |
| keks-n | Hm | 23:39 |
| lcuk | keks-n, have you built kernel for other systems before? | 23:39 |
| keks-n | yep | 23:39 |
| Serio__ | which? | 23:39 |
| lcuk | ok so you are already comfortable with the usual stuff | 23:39 |
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| Serio__ | embedded? | 23:40 |
| keks-n | I've even backported a module from upstream, lol | 23:40 |
| Serio__ | lol | 23:40 |
| keks-n | But I'm a newbie in cross-compilation | 23:40 |
| lcuk | try putting some soothing music on | 23:40 |
| lcuk | it should make you less cross | 23:41 |
| Venemo | lol lcuk | 23:41 |
| Venemo | lcuk, your sense of humor always manages to surprise me | 23:41 |
| Serio__ | keks...keep it S3RIO | 23:41 |
| lcuk | I tend to surprise many people with many things | 23:41 |
| Serio__ | thats serious in spanish | 23:42 |
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| lcuk | keks-n, so have you done any cross compilation of normal apps before now? | 23:42 |
| lcuk | ie built a qt or gtk app and package from it etc | 23:42 |
| keks-n | I've built Mono runtime under scratchbox | 23:43 |
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| keks-n | I had to fight with qemu's "Unsupported syscall" issue, but I've done it | 23:43 |
| keks-n | The problem is that I _want_ this kernel to compile under scratchbox | 23:44 |
| keks-n | Not under toolchains or something like that | 23:45 |
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| keks-n | Now I get "arch/arm/mach-omap2/board-rx51-peripherals.c:615: error: variable 'rx51_si4713_i2c_data' has initializer but incomplete type" and have no idea what to do with it | 23:47 |
| lcuk | keks-n, IDK, and scratchbox itself is not a meego thing | 23:47 |
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| Venemo | keks-n, MeeGo's kernel won't work in Maemo, so no point in compiling it under SB | 23:47 |
| keks-n | I know. But I hope that MeeGo kernel has working kexec | 23:47 |
| lcuk | I think you can just have kernel as an OBS project and built it there | 23:48 |
| * lcuk waves hands a bit | 23:48 | |
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| keks-n | static struct si4713_platform_data rx51_si4713_i2c_data = { | 23:49 |
| keks-n | .gpio_reset = RX51_FMTX_RESET_GPIO, | 23:49 |
| keks-n | }; | 23:49 |
| keks-n | lol | 23:49 |
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| lcuk | Venemo, the other night I tried building your game on my n900 | 23:50 |
| lcuk | following your instructions | 23:50 |
| lcuk | rpmbuild is not built in by default | 23:50 |
| Venemo | rpmbuild should be on the SDK | 23:51 |
| Venemo | it's probably not installed on the device, for the same reason dpkg-buildpackage is not installed on Maemo :) | 23:51 |
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| lcuk | slightly different reasoning | 23:52 |
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| lcuk | dpkg-buildpackage is not installable on maemo because of busybox and other different things | 23:52 |
| Venemo | afaik it's installable | 23:52 |
| Venemo | anyway | 23:52 |
| lcuk | on meego, with the correct zypper line any device is capable of being self SDK | 23:53 |
| Venemo | I bet you could install rpmbuild on your MeeGo anyway :) | 23:53 |
| keks-n | lolwut. dpkg-buildpackage can run on the device | 23:53 |
| lcuk | Venemo, of course it can be | 23:53 |
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| lcuk | it just means your instructions are a bit incomplete and need tweaking | 23:53 |
| Venemo | yeah | 23:53 |
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| lcuk | keks-n, different issue, dpkg stuff is afaik not a part of meego | 23:54 |
| Venemo | if you take it that way, then yeah. | 23:54 |
| keks-n | lcuk, try to use alien, lol | 23:54 |
| keks-n | It can convert from deb to rpm | 23:55 |
| lcuk | Venemo, I always try to follow positive thinking. :) | 23:55 |
| Venemo | lcuk :) | 23:55 |
| Venemo | lcuk, so, extend my instructions with this section: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/A_Short_RPM_Tutorial#Development_environment | 23:56 |
| Venemo | and replace 'yum' with 'zypper' | 23:56 |
| lcuk | Venemo, when I boot meego de on my n900 tomorrow I will find the little extra bits needed so that it will run | 23:56 |
| Venemo | okay, thanks lcuk | 23:57 |
| lcuk | like I said to you when you first mentioned it, its a matter of dependencies | 23:57 |
| Venemo | indeed | 23:57 |
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| * lcuk still awestruck by haircut yesterday | 23:58 | |
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