IRC log of #meego for Tuesday, 2011-04-12

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TSCHAKeee	alterego: right now, I am trying to get people interested by building models and toys for various parts of the system so we can try out new ideas.	00:10
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TSCHAKeee	alterego: one aspect I really want to keep of the on screen orbiter we have now... the media is always priority..the UI overlays on top, and should try to be as out of the way as possible, while still being visible for urgent things.	00:11
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alterego	TSCHAKeee: yeah, I like that idea as well :)	00:15
alterego	TSCHAKeee: what ideas are you most interested in expanding in to?	00:16
TSCHAKeee	one sec	00:16
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CosmoHill	he's alive \o.	00:21
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CosmoHill	aaahh, wtf is my other arm	00:22
* TSCHAKeee is wrestling with his bank		00:22
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alterego	CosmoHill: that's luck :P	00:22
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CosmoHill	TSCHAKeee: I can just imagine a man punching an ATM	00:22
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TSCHAKeee	oh for fuck's sake	00:24
TSCHAKeee	bank of america	00:25
alterego	Heh	00:25
TSCHAKeee	can't transfer funds, because website is broken	00:25
TSCHAKeee	call on phone to transfer funds, the phone IVR is broken	00:25
gabrbedd	lcuk: welcome back!	00:25
TSCHAKeee	call to transfer to a customer service representative, after they transfer me, operator says "call can't be completed after this time"	00:25
TSCHAKeee	WHAT THE $(@#(%@#%(#@ ?!	00:25
piotr	can we keep the chat ontopic please?	00:26
* TSCHAKeee sets his bank card on fire		00:26
TSCHAKeee	piotr: I would be concerned, if we were actually talking about something.	00:26
TSCHAKeee	piotr: but we aren't.	00:26
TSCHAKeee	piotr: so relax.	00:26
CosmoHill	says the person going ape	00:26
TSCHAKeee	soak in the irony	00:27
alterego	Heh	00:27
TSCHAKeee	;)	00:27
CosmoHill	:)	00:27
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CosmoHill	the fun kinda irony, not The Office kind	00:27
TSCHAKeee	alterego: to answer your question, we have a fairly complete UI..the problem is... it's ...really...clumsy in spots...and it was completed long before anyone saw an iPhone...	00:28
alterego	I don't think the topic has been on topic for about 5 hours :)	00:28
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vldcnst	what is the topic?	00:28
CosmoHill	vldcnst: http://black-flag.co.uk/Picture 13.png	00:28
CosmoHill	but seriously, it's pretty much anything MeeGo or MeeGo ish	00:29
vldcnst	CosmoHill: is it!?	00:29
alterego	Annd we can expect MeeGo powered ATMs any day now :)	00:29
ali1234	srsly?	00:30
alterego	No	00:30
alterego	Maybe one day though :P	00:30
CosmoHill	alterego: ones that take offence to Kubuntu users	00:30
alterego	Heh	00:30
alterego	He's kubuntu, zero his funds! :D	00:30
CosmoHill	"what a kind person, donating all his money to cancer research UK"	00:30
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alterego	Hah	00:31
CosmoHill	hmm, either I can hear a distant plane or one hell of a pidgin	00:31
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alterego	Or your neighbours sex toy	00:31
* CosmoHill throws his badly build and even worse repaired Nokia 6220 Classic at alterego		00:32
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TSCHAKeee	before ya slam pidgins, be aware, we may have to use them for packet transport one day	00:33
TSCHAKeee	after the apocalypse	00:33
TSCHAKeee	and mad max roams the streets	00:33
TSCHAKeee	looking for	00:33
TSCHAKeee	the night....rider....	00:33
CosmoHill	aussie V8 verses camp american, should be interesting	00:33
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CosmoHill	five bucks says the V8 is top	00:35
alterego	Yeah, America don't make good cars	00:35
berndhs	also the BBC car guys are really biased :P	00:35
CosmoHill	I've seen some "international" cars	00:36
alterego	Hahah, yeah	00:36
CosmoHill	the american version looks like the ugly sister than lives under the staircase of the pretty european	00:36
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CosmoHill	take the honda civic for example	00:37
alterego	Which one?	00:37
alterego	Honda are pretty epic though ..	00:37
CosmoHill	or the ford escort	00:38
alterego	awful ..	00:38
CosmoHill	alterego: latest one	00:38
alterego	Never liked ford	00:38
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CosmoHill	I was mean until my best friend got me into Focuses	00:38
TSCHAKeee	euro cars, huh? ;) and the..uh....Citroen? ;)	00:38
alterego	TSCHAKeee: The french make crap cars too :P	00:39
CosmoHill	I was thinking of european models of internation cars	00:39
alterego	Well, except the 2CV :)	00:39
berndhs	yeah the 2CV, there was a proper performance car	00:39
CosmoHill	the french drive like itanians on modpeds, just crazy and all over the place	00:39
* CosmoHill puts the broom away		00:39
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GAN900	BBC's opinions about American cars are useless.	00:40
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TSCHAKeee	thou shalt not make fun of top gear	00:40
alterego	Top Gear is the tits :P	00:40
GAN900	They're immature children.	00:40
berndhs	i'm not british, I can make fun of them :)	00:40
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alterego	That's why they're great :P	00:41
alterego	It's like a much better jack ass.	00:41
TSCHAKeee	I saw jack-ass 3D	00:41
TSCHAKeee	and went...yup...jumped the shark	00:41
GAN900	I enjoy them immensely, but they're children whose documentary diligence should often be questioned. :P	00:41
alterego	I've never been too into it, could go out into town to watch a bunch of guys do stupid crap :)	00:42
berndhs	oh they are very entertaining, its just a lot of whay they say about the cars is nonsense	00:42
alterego	s/nonsense/opinion/ ;)	00:43
TSCHAKeee	alterego: ultimately what we're looking to try and accomplish for this first pass is an on screen TV target, and a tablet target...which we can then repurpose to other stuff as we can.	00:43
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TSCHAKeee	keeping in mind that even the tablet targets can view media too.	00:43
alterego	Yes, of course :)	00:44
TSCHAKeee	trying to bring in nice things like kinetic scrolling	00:44
GAN900	I'm frightened by the possibility that many people will have confused Florida with Alabama during their first US tour.	00:44
TSCHAKeee	so we can get rid of stupid scrollbars and buttons	00:44
alterego	Yeah	00:44
* GAN900 doubts most Europeans appreciate exactly how different US states are.		00:44
ali1234	i think you'd be quite wrong in that assumption	00:45
alterego	Yeah	00:45
alterego	I thought that was quite obvious :P	00:45
TSCHAKeee	alterego: but the big thing here that we're trying to bring in with QML, is the ability for PEOPLE NOT WORKING ON this thing 24-7 to be able to make their own UIs	00:45
Corsac	us states, that looks a bit redondant	00:45
TSCHAKeee	because our current designer software is....how shall i put this delicately? AWKWARD.	00:46
alterego	:)	00:46
TSCHAKeee	and even that doesn't do justice to the weirdness	00:46
alterego	TSCHAKeee: so have you started working on Qml integration?	00:46
TSCHAKeee	alterego: not yet, I want to see what's possible from a UI perspective, and then start building an engine...building back from the UI to the backend, changing things as neede	00:47
TSCHAKeee	we already have a tremendous architecture in place	00:47
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TSCHAKeee	so the real work is working on a replacement window controller class, and a QML engine...a dev is working on the former, and i am guiding him.	00:47
alterego	TSCHAKeee: okay, well I'll get your stuff working in a vm and work on my own adaptation of the UX this weekend :)	00:48
TSCHAKeee	okay. thing to note. you'll want to put two virtual NICs in the VM	00:48
alterego	Okay	00:48
TSCHAKeee	because the system likes to set itself up as a gateway/router/firewall/central everything.	00:48
TSCHAKeee	ok.	00:48
alterego	Does it do DHCP?	00:48
TSCHAKeee	yes	00:48
alterego	As a server?	00:48
TSCHAKeee	that's how we deal with network detection	00:48
TSCHAKeee	yes	00:49
alterego	Cool	00:49
TSCHAKeee	we built it as the ultimate drop in	00:49
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TSCHAKeee	alterego: install Kubuntu 10.04, and use the installer from here: http://svn.linuxmce.org/svn/branches/LinuxMCE-0810/src/new-installer/	00:50
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alterego	I see you've not made a release in a while :)	00:50
TSCHAKeee	just cut and paste that somewhere... pre-install-from-repo.sh ... mce-install.sh.. thenp ost-instal..sh ....	00:50
TSCHAKeee	alterego: no, we've been working our asses off trying to transition from a vertical company to a completely community dev process	00:51
alterego	http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-13038481	00:51
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alterego	Cool	00:51
TSCHAKeee	alterego: literally imagine a rich uncle dying, leaving you a mansion, with no help or staff, with you just having the key	00:51
alterego	:)	00:51
TSCHAKeee	alterego: and a handful of us learning how to build the thing from nothing.	00:51
TSCHAKeee	:)	00:51
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TSCHAKeee	it took us a while	00:51
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alterego	"Until now, most devices have used chips designed by Apple and Cambridge-based Arm Holdings."	00:52
alterego	I really don't like that sentence ..	00:53
GAN900	Source?	00:53
ali1234	the bbc article i guess	00:54
alterego	Yeah, 'tis'	00:54
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ali1234	the apple chips are arm core too right?	00:54
CosmoHill	yes	00:54
alterego	ali1234: that's my problem with the statement ;)	00:54
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CosmoHill	Apple have their own modified design that they produce	00:54
alterego	Sure,	00:54
ali1234	yeah but it's not the same	00:55
CosmoHill	still ARM tho	00:55
alterego	But that's like saying TIs OMAP isn't ARM	00:55
ali1234	still, you can't expect journalists to understand the difference between ip-cores and real chips	00:55
alterego	ali1234: I'd hope they do when they're writing an article about the subject ;)	00:55
GAN900	Especially BBC ones. :P	00:55
alterego	GAN900: Hah :D	00:55
alterego	Yeah, I bet it was a joke just to piss some Cambridge people off :P	00:56
ali1234	if you read it as "one chip designed by apple and arm" then it makes sense	00:56
ali1234	cos the apple chip also has parts in it designed by cambridge	00:56
CosmoHill	no were in the article does it mention the architecture difference	00:56
ali1234	and ipad is the most popular after all	00:56
CosmoHill	that reminds me of people buying cheap £150 ARM netbooks and asking if they can run Windows 7 starter and stuff on it	00:57
ali1234	"Currently, chipsets based on Arm's designs, such as Nvidia's popular Tegra processors, are unable to run Windows."	00:57
alterego	Well, they go on to talk about "chipsets based on ARM designs, such as Nvidia's popular Tegra processors"	00:57
alterego	Oh, hah :)	00:57
CosmoHill	oh wait it does support ARM	00:57
TSCHAKeee	Apple has done a fantastic snowjob	00:57
CosmoHill	*meantion	00:57
TSCHAKeee	convincing the world	00:57
TSCHAKeee	that they invent all their own stuff.	00:58
alterego	Yeah ..	00:58
CosmoHill	I have a Apple Powermac somewhere with Intel and Sun Microsystem chips	00:58
TSCHAKeee	i mean, wow	00:58
alterego	I'd just be interested to know where this ignorance comes from :)	00:58
TSCHAKeee	reality distortion field is globally maintained	00:58
ali1234	alterego: nobody cares if apple designed it themselves or not	00:58
CosmoHill	ali1234: apple do	00:58
CosmoHill	says so on the back of everything they sell	00:59
alterego	I do	00:59
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ali1234	the ipad is a good device	00:59
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alterego	And all the Apple fanboys do	00:59
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TSCHAKeee	I will never forget a friend who was asked to speak internally at apple to a group of engineers	00:59
CosmoHill	"designed by apple in cali, built by child labor in china"	00:59
ali1234	i wouldn't buy one	00:59
TSCHAKeee	but was turned away when he refused to re-do his entire presentation using apple software.	00:59
ali1234	but i'm not exactly the average consumer	00:59
alterego	I'm always reading articles about someone arguing with an Apple fanboy about the so called heritage of the apple A(n) designs	00:59
alterego	Like: "The A5 is so much more powerful than the Cortex A9"	01:00
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TSCHAKeee	nobody realizes that Apple's design department really consists of ONE guy with the permission to think for himself	01:00
TSCHAKeee	Johnathan Ive	01:00
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GAN900	CosmoHill, better than subsistence farming. :)	01:04
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alterego	I'm hitting the hay now, g'night folks.	01:04
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* CosmoHill wonders when ford will release a 4wd RS		01:07
* CosmoHill looks at the euro ford focus, then the american one then slaps the american one		01:08
* gabrbedd throws a Toyota Prius at CosmoHill		01:09
GAN900	Stupid EPA and NHTA and all the other damn Federal TLAs	01:10
* TSCHAKeee read that as a Toyota Primus		01:10
* CosmoHill returns it to the enviroment by droping it in the sea		01:10
GAN900	Busybody government parasites.	01:10
TSCHAKeee	I can see the commercials now	01:10
CosmoHill	we seem to have hit a nerve, and a sea lion	01:10
TSCHAKeee	my name is mud! :)	01:10
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GAN900	CosmoHill, don't litter.	01:11
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GAN900	I hadn't realized the EU had passed an average carbon emissions requirement until I saw that horrifying Aston subcompact on Top Gear.	01:12
GAN900	How does it feel having unelected officials from other countries meddling in your economy?	01:12
thiago_home	I thought the entire european parliament was elected	01:13
ali1234	euro MPs are elected	01:13
ali1234	nice try	01:13
berndhs	european commision isn't elected, and they have a lot of control	01:13
ali1234	so do the unelected lobbyists everywhere	01:14
berndhs	yeah but not in a formal way like the comission	01:14
ali1234	in some ways that is worse	01:15
berndhs	nah the comission is a bad idea, no way around it	01:15
berndhs	there are lobbyists in europe too of course	01:15
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GAN900	The core of the issue is deaper than that, in that they have that much power in the first place. :P	01:16
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berndhs	yeah if they would just listen to us, we could fix it :)	01:19
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GAN900	I'd make a better wizened elder any day of the week. g	01:26
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gabrbedd	GAN900: More lake a wisenheimer.... :-p	02:35
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GeneralAntilles	gabrbedd, yeah, 'xactly. :P	02:48
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Bird	Hi ,is there a way in which I can utilize to detect meego platfrom in Qt?thanks in advance	04:33
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iekku	morning	06:20
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berndhs	evening	06:21
iekku	:)	06:21
berndhs	got another 38 minutes until its technically morning	06:22
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weggi_	Bird: Try this API? http://doc.qt.nokia.com/qtmobility-1.1/systeminfo.html	10:11
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CosmoHill	does this website load for anyone? http://amiapoil-burmese.co.uk/	12:13
timoph	yep. there be cats	12:14
CosmoHill	thanks timoph	12:14
* CosmoHill emails his aunty saying the server is fine		12:15
timoph	np	12:15
CosmoHill	don't suppose you're also a french wanadoo customer?	12:15
timoph	no :)	12:16
CosmoHill	any comments on the design?	12:18
timoph	pretty clear and simple. I woundn't use scrolling text as a link	12:20
CosmoHill	I don't like that either but that's what she wanted	12:20
CosmoHill	a hell of a lot nicer than using javascript for the same task	12:21
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timoph	:)	12:21
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CosmoHill	ha, just seen geocities on the links page	12:23
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CosmoHill	thanks for checking and for the comments timoph :)	12:29
arnaud	CosmoHill: I'm an Orange customer (no choice ;)), In can try this evening if you want	12:29
arnaud	(let me a query with the address if you want so)	12:30
arnaud	(Orange = Wanadoo)	12:30
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CosmoHill	thanks but it's specifically french wanadoo customers	12:30
chouchoune	yes, I'm in France	12:30
chouchoune	and an Orange customer	12:30
CosmoHill	you can give the FTP a go if you'd like	12:30
chouchoune	and Wanadoo is the old name of Orange	12:30
CosmoHill	see if it asks you for details	12:30
CosmoHill	oh, when did they change?	12:31
chouchoune	long time ago	12:31
chouchoune	but old customer still have wanadoo addresses I guess	12:31
CosmoHill	I'd imagine you'd still be within the same IP range	12:31
chouchoune	yes I guess so	12:31
chouchoune	but I can't try now	12:31
CosmoHill	I got annoyed with china and banned the world	12:31
chouchoune	I'm at work	12:31
CosmoHill	(from FTP access)	12:32
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lbt	X-Fade: we should discuss this here....	12:39
X-Fade	lbt: Sure.	12:39
lbt	but if you push the 1.2 version to M:1.2:Apps then you have to keep track of which version goes where	12:40
lbt	although I suppose that's a rare occurence	12:40
X-Fade	lbt: If someone wants to target every version, then you need to have a clever spec and probably also code with a lot of IFDEFs.	12:41
lbt	OK ... so MeeGo:Apps:<Target>[:Testing] then ?	12:41
X-Fade	lbt: http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_Apps	12:42
lbt	X-Fade: yeah - and they may want different pkgs	12:42
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X-Fade	lbt: yes, as UX theming etc really might change.	12:42
lbt	you think it belongs under M:1.1 ?	12:42
X-Fade	lbt: It makes it clear what the dependency tree actually is.	12:43
X-Fade	lbt: But it does make for longer names.	12:43
X-Fade	Btw, you came up with that naming proposal :)	12:43
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lbt	g	12:43
lbt	I make all kinds of bad decisions before getting it right	12:44
lbt	now I kinda wonder if we should have M:Apps M:Surrounds as high level	12:44
lbt	I'm thinking it's a clearer management area	12:44
X-Fade	And then version?	12:44
lbt	yes	12:44
lbt	M:Apps:1.1:IVI ?	12:45
X-Fade	It makes sorting easier at least.	12:45
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X-Fade	As OBS ui is not really nice for project listing like that.	12:45
lbt	no - there's a patch to help	12:45
lbt	BTW we really need to upgrade OBS	12:46
lbt	it's running some old cruft in there 2.0.1.lbt88 or something	12:46
X-Fade	Yeah, but webui layout should not cause us to decide things like that though :)	12:46
lbt	hand applied security backported patches?	12:46
lbt	"go on then"	12:47
X-Fade	I'd rather get the process going asap.	12:47
lbt	yes, agreeed	12:47
X-Fade	As the 1.2 release is coming near and we really need to have everything in place before then.	12:47
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Sage	X-Fade,lbt: What kind of structure will there be for cobs for the community packages?	12:49
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X-Fade	Sage: That is what we're trying to decide now :)	12:49
lbt	Sage: come to MeeFo Summit.fi	12:49
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X-Fade	Won't be there though.	12:49
Sage	lbt mentioned M:Apps:1.1:IVI, but I guess with 1.2 there isn't any IVI/Handset etc. repos anymore	12:49
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Sage	lbt: Unfortunately I can't make it. :(	12:49
lbt	Sage: indeed...	12:49
X-Fade	Yeah, but how would one target a specific UX though.	12:50
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Sage	X-Fade: one should not target a specific UX, meego apps should work on all of them.	12:50
lbt	Sage: and in the real world....	12:50
X-Fade	Sage: That is a nice idea..	12:50
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X-Fade	Sage: But really..	12:50
Stskeeps	lbt: when are you in tampere, btw?	12:50
lbt	thursday pm .. 4ish	12:51
Stskeeps	X-Fade: in practice there's one sysroot, one trunk :P	12:51
X-Fade	Stskeeps: But is there one theme? :)	12:51
Stskeeps	X-Fade: no, but from OBS pov it doesn't matter	12:51
Stskeeps	:P	12:51
Stskeeps	lbt: ok, i'm here from yesterday	12:51
X-Fade	Stskeeps: We also need to think about the appinstaller perspective.	12:51
Sage	I know that in real world it is not so simple. But we should try at least. Also if application works only on handset UX then it can require on handset ux components.	12:51
X-Fade	How would I only list the apps that work on Tablet UX.	12:52
lbt	Stskeeps: wow... that's early!	12:52
Stskeeps	lbt: getting some work done :P	12:52
X-Fade	And what if I need ofono and tabletUX doesn't have it?	12:52
X-Fade	How would I then target everything?	12:52
Sage	X-Fade: all meego verticals should have ofono IIRC	12:53
X-Fade	Sage: Ok, bad example ;)	12:53
Sage	X-Fade: also if app needs ofono then it depends on it and it comes with the applications. ofono will be anyway on meego core repository that is used for all verticals.	12:53
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Sage	X-Fade: ;)	12:53
lbt	Sage: honestly... we're still figuring it out	12:53
X-Fade	Just wondering if we are sure that we always have everything.	12:53
Stskeeps	but anyway, what's delivered from meego.com is oss/ and non-oss/ and noone should build against oss :P	12:53
Stskeeps	err.	12:53
Stskeeps	non-oss	12:53
lbt	if we need diversity and don't have it... that's worse than having it and not needing it	12:54
X-Fade	I just want to prevent that we will have a list of apps which don't make any sense on the device you are using.	12:54
X-Fade	We somehow need to make sure we have certain targets?	12:55
lbt	X-Fade: also we should distinguish build-system/repo from UI	12:55
Sage	X-Fade: I think that is something that the rpm's group should do actually.	12:55
Sage	s/should/could/	12:55
infobot	Sage meant: X-Fade: I think that is something that the rpm's group could do actually.	12:55
X-Fade	Sage: development, games.. Yeah, very descriptive :)	12:56
Sage	infobot: :)	12:56
infobot	(:	12:56
saidinesh5	pohly: ping	12:56
Sage	X-Fade: lets take an example. There is currently the Tablet apps (also called MeeGo UX) that user wants to use on Handset image as well.	12:57
pohly	saidinesh5: hello	12:57
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saidinesh5	Hi ..	12:57
Sage	So should user add new repository to add those apps to his image?	12:57
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timeless_w7ip	lcuk: https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14224#c6 is amusing	12:57
X-Fade	Sage: Your image determines which apps you see?	12:57
MeeGoBot	Bug 14224 is not accessible	12:57
* CosmoHill headbangs his desk		12:57
saidinesh5	you said that you were waiting for an okay from me	12:57
saidinesh5	for the code review	12:58
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pohly	saidinesh5: I rewrote the commits a lot and wanted to be sure that the descriptions still match the code.	12:58
* timeless_w7ip wonders why cosmohill attacked his desk		12:58
saidinesh5	ohh	12:58
Sage	X-Fade: Maybe package manager not image. In theory it should be possile to change from one UX to another within same image.	12:58
pohly	You'll know that better than myself.	12:58
saidinesh5	yes, i have seen it and tested the branch	12:58
X-Fade	Sage: I think we really should target use cases too.	12:58
pohly	Did you look at the commit history?	12:58
saidinesh5	oh you mean you were waiting for my review	12:59
saidinesh5	yes	12:59
saidinesh5	i have	12:59
X-Fade	Sage: We should target end users.	12:59
saidinesh5	you have sqashed together a lot of commits	12:59
X-Fade	Sage: Not hackers who change UX every day :)	12:59
saidinesh5	and removed the libproxy	12:59
Sage	X-Fade: Ok, lets take XBMC as an example. Which repository should that belong to Handset/Tablet/Netbook/IVI?	12:59
X-Fade	Sage: And for end-users a fuel economy app for your bmw, doesn't really make sense on your handset?	12:59
pohly	The libproxy support already was gone in the HEAD of your own branch, wasn't it?	12:59
Sage	X-Fade: N900 config package doesn't make any sens in meego core but still it is there ;)	13:00
saidinesh5	yes, but there was 1 commit still, in which i forgot to remove out the #include <proxy.h>	13:00
X-Fade	Sage: xmbc can be useful for any ux.	13:00
X-Fade	Sage: But not all apps are.	13:00
Sage	X-Fade: ok, so you suggest that there would be also some general for all UX repo?	13:00
* timeless_w7ip needs to allocate time to fight OBS		13:00
lbt	Sage: FYI the idea is that we have general repos	13:00
X-Fade	Sage: Yes. That was why we hade a Core target too.	13:01
lbt	for apps with broad support	13:01
saidinesh5	lemme check	13:01
Sage	ok, well then I don't have anything agains the Handset/Tablet/... etc repos. :)	13:01
Stskeeps	don't they all link to the same place, anyway..?	13:01
saidinesh5	and also i have compiled and checked the HEAD of the akonadi-merge-pohly branch the same way the usual testing	13:01
lbt	Sage: yes - and if they're empty... mission accomplished	13:01
X-Fade	I'm all for a 'here are all apps we have repo'.	13:01
X-Fade	But we also need to have one per experience which has a higher quality than that.	13:02
pohly	saidinesh5: sounds like I should go ahead and include in the master branch.	13:02
saidinesh5	and it still fails with the particular test cases that i have mentioned in one of the commit messages	13:02
saidinesh5	so if you can look at those failed cases	13:02
X-Fade	Also, is every vendor shipping everything that is in the 1.2 repo now? Or are they allowed to remove something?	13:03
saidinesh5	then we can go ahead and include it in the master branch	13:03
timeless_w7ip	x-fade: i presume nokia isn't a vendor?	13:03
pohly	saidinesh5: I probably won't have time to fix any of these failures or investigate them.	13:03
saidinesh5	Oh	13:03
saidinesh5	i ll fix them though	13:04
X-Fade	timeless_w7ip: It is a vendor when they ship a meego device :)	13:04
Stskeeps	X-Fade: there's a compliance package group	13:04
X-Fade	Stskeeps: But does that contain your n900 package for instance?	13:04
pohly	That would be good. I really need a permanent maintainer for SyncEvolution+KDE, because my time is too limited.	13:04
saidinesh5	but how do i basically check the syncing of the kde specific fields	13:04
Stskeeps	X-Fade: it doesn't contain anything hw specific, i think	13:05
X-Fade	Stskeeps: Then it is very hard for us to target the general 1.2 rpo.	13:05
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pohly	Let me get the code running as part of master and in the nightly testing, then we can discuss the specific failures.	13:05
Sage	X-Fade: well if vendor creates a core repository that isn't same as meego then all bets are of I guess. I think vendor is only required to have meego compliance packages.	13:05
X-Fade	And not have it break on device.	13:05
saidinesh5	basically I can maintain the things if you can tell me wat to do though	13:05
Stskeeps	X-Fade: so you want a repo only with compliance package group? ..	13:05
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Sage	X-Fade: So I guess all UX specific stuff is something that isn't required from vendor.	13:05
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saidinesh5	oh so you want the code cleanups to be done for the master merging?	13:05
X-Fade	Stskeeps: Well, I just want something which actually makes sense.	13:06
X-Fade	Stskeeps: I just want that devices shipping 1.2 can actually use community apps. And only have the ones visible which actually work.	13:06
pohly	No, let's merge first and then fix it. I think it won't break anything unless enabled, so I can release 1.2 without waiting for Akonadi fixes, if necessary.	13:07
X-Fade	Sage: So from my pov, the compliance spec should be MeeGo Core.	13:07
X-Fade	Sage: And everything else is UX specific.	13:07
saidinesh5	ohh okay, sure ...	13:07
Sage	X-Fade: well, the problem is that in meego there is no way to distinguish the meego compliance in obs :(	13:07
saidinesh5	so how long before 1.2 ?	13:07
X-Fade	But now we have everything on one repo, I don't know how to differentiate.	13:07
X-Fade	It is like the release management doesn't seem to work for real use cases?	13:08
Sage	X-Fade: maybe checks agains patterns could be added. That community apps do not use anything out of the compliance/devel patterns? :)	13:08
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X-Fade	When we are seeing issues like this, how hard will all this be for potential vendors?	13:09
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saidinesh5	let me know about the details of the failing test cases,	13:11
Sage	Well, vendor could have its own app store and repository cloned from meego. However adding community is another thing, but also not so interesting use case for vendor.	13:11
timeless_w7ip	~akonadi	13:11
X-Fade	But if we want to be a reference, then we should show that it is not a mess :)	13:11
Sage	X-Fade: true, but try to tell the people decising about these things that.	13:12
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X-Fade	Sage: And who are that :)	13:12
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Sage	I personally suggested that each hardware adaptation would have their own repository over a year ago but that idea was also not accepted. There is no need to have e.g. n900 specific packages on other devices than n900.	13:13
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X-Fade	I do wonder why we have verticals when you can't target them.	13:14
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Sage	"The MeeGo compliance program is designed to make sure things stay compatible, such that the devices supporting a particular MeeGo version can run the same software, and so that app developers know how to build software which will run across the family. Simply put, we want to make it possible for an application developer to write a MeeGo compliant application once and run it on any MeeGo compliant device." @ http://wiki.meego.com/Quality/Compliance	13:16
Sage	X-Fade: ^ So no need because the compliance should take care of that. :)	13:16
X-Fade	Sage: But why do we have a repo with a lot of packages which are out of the compliance :)	13:17
Sage	X-Fade: my question is now that will community obs follow the meego compliance? :)	13:17
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dm8tbr	I wonder why there are no compliant devices	13:18
dm8tbr	what are apps good for when there are no devices to run them on	13:18
X-Fade	If we have to hand pick packages, then we might as well not even try..	13:18
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Sage	X-Fade: but in my opinion you are right. There should be repository that full fills the compliance and nothing more and if app compiles against that it should also work on all the platforms.	13:20
Sage	and currently it is not possible to ensure that package compiles just against the compliance	13:21
X-Fade	Sage: Yes, if you are able to pick up dependencies now which are outside the spec.	13:22
Sage	:nod:	13:22
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lbt	Sage: yeah, lets call it "core" or something	13:23
lbt	and move the non-compliant apps to ... I dunno... "Surrounds" or something	13:23
X-Fade	Oh wait, that is what we had before :)	13:23
lbt	like, say, "emacs"	13:23
lbt	oh, wait, that's inconvenient for the core developers... lets do something else instead	13:24
lbt	after all, their comfort matters more than their customers'	13:24
Sage	In my opinion currently in MeeGo 1.2 the one repo for all is the best we can do if we don't want to start doing the checks about dependencies manually.	13:25
X-Fade	What does the sdk do btw?	13:25
X-Fade	What does it include?	13:25
lbt	or you know.... automatically	13:25
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Sage	lbt: well that is ok by me if you can script it :)	13:26
lbt	well, I don't know why but MeeGo is full of Luddites	13:26
lbt	scripting is a dirty word	13:26
Sage	automate it then ;)	13:26
lbt	oh, wait... did that	13:27
lbt	and like INT 11... no-one cared	13:27
lbt	s/INT/IRQ/	13:27
infobot	lbt meant: and like IRQ 11... no-one cared	13:27
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X-Fade	Building against the 1.2 repo and then needing to run the compliancy tool to check if all deps are withing spec is not what I think is a good solution.	13:31
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X-Fade	And building your GTK app for 1.2 seems easy now. Only you'll notice that it might not install on your device.	13:34
X-Fade	Imagine the frustration when a developer finds out about that.	13:34
timeless_w7ip	?!	13:35
timeless_w7ip	what the heck?	13:35
Sage	X-Fade: ???	13:35
timeless_w7ip	x-fade: is this stuff that if i tried to update the mxr.meego.com/repo.meego.com root i'd suddenly get?	13:35
X-Fade	Sage: gtk2 and gnome is in 1.2 repo too.	13:35
timeless_w7ip	(including gtk?)	13:35
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timeless_w7ip	fwiw, i'm working on improving the pageload performance for that repo	13:36
timeless_w7ip	i hope to finish it today/tomorrow	13:36
timeless_w7ip	and then i'll go back to figuring out why i hadn't cron'd updating it	13:36
Sage	X-Fade: http://build.meego.com/package/show?package=gtk2&project=Trunk <- what is this then?	13:36
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Sage	ah	13:36
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Sage	X-Fade: but if users' app requires of gtk those are retrieved from the oss repository when installing the package from comminity repo.	13:37
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timeless_w7ip	such an app clearly shouldn't be compliant w/ meego..	13:37
lbt	Sage: the community Apps will only (for now) depend on core	13:37
X-Fade	Sage: The app manager isn't required to know about dependencies.	13:38
lbt	not even other apps (useforbuild disabled)	13:38
timeless_w7ip	lbt: good!	13:38
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X-Fade	lbt: Problem is, there is no core.	13:38
lbt	X-Fade: indeed	13:38
timeless_w7ip	ungood	13:38
Sage	lbt: gtk2 is in the core because e.g. meego-lsb requires on it.	13:39
timeless_w7ip	sage: and why does it?	13:39
X-Fade	I look at http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/1.1.90/1.1.99.1.20110405.3/repos/oss/ia32/packages/i586/ and think... kitchensink.	13:39
Sage	I have no idea, but currently it does and it is included to all images	13:39
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lbt	Sage: I was going to ask for the audit trail that justifies on a per-package basis, its inclusion in core	13:40
lbt	Trunk	13:40
lbt	X-Fade: the main problem is MeeGo's chief architect is building a distro	13:40
Sage	I don't say that it is correctly in core but currently at least it is ;)	13:40
timeless_w7ip	x-fade: awww, Firefox is missing!	13:40
lbt	whereas all the customers want a product baseline	13:40
Sage	timeless_w7ip: fennec-qt is there ;)	13:40
timeless_w7ip	your kitchen sink is half empty!	13:40
timeless_w7ip	and i bet seamonkey is missing too!	13:41
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timeless_w7ip	sage: but we could switch that for fennec-gtk? :)	13:41
timeless_w7ip	aww, there's no openoffice either	13:41
timeless_w7ip	you need a bigger sink :)	13:41
Sage	lbt, X-Fade: as said I agree with you about the mess, but what can we do? Make more noise? :)	13:41
lbt	Sage: ^^ that's the problem.... distro vs product baseline	13:42
lbt	whilst the core RE team are more interested in the former than the latter...	13:42
lbt	SOOL	13:42
Sage	lbt: agreed	13:42
lbt	hence http://sf2011.meego.com/program/sessions/bof-fixing-meego-setting-open-vendor-ecosystem	13:43
X-Fade	Well at least we have a 1470!! packages repo we can build against :)	13:43
Sage	Long time ago the N900 specific repo was declined as it would have increased the amount of repositories and the work for RE IIRC.	13:44
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lbt	Sage: yeah... 'cos they don't automate....	13:44
lbt	anyhow... I gotta go... bbiab	13:44
lbt	sorry to duck out	13:44
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lbt	and auke missed it ... :D	13:44
X-Fade	I wonder who we can talk to about this core vs kitchensink mess.	13:45
Sage	X-Fade: MeeGo TSG?	13:45
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X-Fade	Sage: No.	13:45
X-Fade	Sage: They approve or decline. They don't come with solutions.	13:45
lbt	X-Fade: actually yes	13:45
lbt	the problem is "Is MeeGo a distro"	13:45
Sage	TSG should be most interested because this is about the vendors as well.	13:45
lbt	the TSG need to set that direction	13:45
lbt	it's either aimed at vendors	13:46
lbt	or it's aimed at being another general purpose distro	13:46
X-Fade	TSG is only decision maker when teams fail?	13:46
lbt	it's also a sounding off place	13:46
lbt	but come on.... it's an epic fail	13:46
lbt	RE doesn't even engage	13:47
lbt	it's rare to see arjan discuss anything on here	13:47
Sage	If TSG doesn't point the direction, will anyone even consider this?	13:47
lbt	bbiab	13:47
X-Fade	Sage: RE/Architects should set direction, TSG needs to approve?	13:48
X-Fade	Anyway as 1.2 is probably frozen by now, nothing will change.	13:48
Stskeeps	even if we sized meego core down to a core, there'll always be libraries that won't be part of meego compliance	13:48
X-Fade	Which leads us to the conclusion that we need to come up with a hack for the next 6 months.	13:49
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Sage	Stskeeps: yes, but that kind of libraries should not be used to create meego compliant app. Or they should be provided with the app.	13:49
Stskeeps	flag it on a post-check if it's compliant or not.. which is rougly ~= uses meego api	13:50
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X-Fade	Stskeeps: It also means that you can't really use OBS as a way to stop building non-compliant apps.	13:51
X-Fade	Prevent building even.	13:51
Stskeeps	X-Fade: we can prevent bad practices with rpmlint..	13:51
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X-Fade	Stskeeps: Sure, but then you have built it already.	13:51
X-Fade	It is a lot more messy than having a missing dep.	13:51
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Viltapi	is it just me or is the meego.com api reeeally slow? my copypacs timeout most of the time	14:35
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ScriptRipper	X-Fade ping	15:01
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lbt	so my persistent windows support guys hung up when I asked if it was GPL and if I could have the source...	18:02
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gabrbedd	lbt: sounds like that guy didn't like your persistence.	18:05
Aard	lbt: why are windows support guys calling you?	18:05
lbt	Aard: fraud calls.... I got them to 1:30 the other day....	18:05
lbt	leave them on hold whilst my laptop boots.... really slowly	18:06
Aard	fraud calls? by offering windows support?	18:06
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lbt	yep... anti-virus... they get you to run a VNC like thing	18:06
lbt	and then charge you $$$ to fix your PV	18:06
lbt	PC	18:06
Aard	:)	18:06
Aard	nice business model	18:06
lbt	at least that's an hour they weren't scamming someone else	18:07
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timeless_mbp	gabrbedd: hi btw, sorry, i know you tried to poke me earlier, but i'm incredibly distracted :)	18:57
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timeless_mbp	lbt; wow	18:58
lbt	timeless_mbp: ?	18:58
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timeless_mbp	re scammers	18:59
lbt	or just general awe?	18:59
lbt	ah	18:59
* timeless_mbp is kinda lagged :)		18:59
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gabrbedd	timeless_mbp: Yesterday? Bah... it's cool. :-)	18:59
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timeless_mbp	fwiw, i should note that people have started triaging my meego bugs	19:14
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auke	lbt: what did I miss?	19:45
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* auke reads scrollback o_O		19:49
* Stskeeps hopes the hotel doesn't mind him running mic2 on their connection..		19:50
gabrbedd	*hotel hopes Stskeeps doesn't mind the wait	19:51
Stskeeps	gabrbedd: they have a surprisingily good connection here	19:51
wmarone	Stskeeps: impressive, most hotel connections I use cost a bunch and barely work at all	19:51
Stskeeps	wmarone: finland..	19:52
Stskeeps	:P	19:52
gabrbedd	That is impressive...	19:52
wmarone	ah right, things actually work over there :)	19:52
auke	Stskeeps: what was that discussion all about earlier?	19:52
gabrbedd	either that... or Stskeeps is hogging all the bandwidth and some poor guy can't even get enough to check his e-mail.	19:53
gabrbedd	:-)	19:53
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Stskeeps	auke: which one of them? the one about meego and distro vs baseline? not sure why you got dragged into it other than you quit/rejoined :)	19:54
auke	ahhh	19:54
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auke	well I do have a voice in what goes into MeeGo or not, lol	19:54
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auke	right now I'm about to shove systemd into meego :)	19:55
timeless_mbp	stskeeps: got dinner plans?	19:55
Stskeeps	for 1.3, i hope..	19:55
Stskeeps	:P	19:55
Stskeeps	timeless_mbp: not in helsink	19:55
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Stskeeps	i	19:55
auke	Stskeeps: yep	19:55
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timeless_mbp	you're elsewhere in Finland? why? :)	19:55
Stskeeps	auke: got a sketch/plan somewhere? am interested to see	19:55
Stskeeps	timeless_mbp: trying something different	19:55
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timeless_mbp	suit yourself ;-)	19:55
auke	we've done a 2-week hackfest here with 2-3 people now and things are starting to work	19:56
Stskeeps	cool	19:56
auke	I'll write something up at the point where I'm happy with the completeness	19:56
auke	we're still avoiding all the handset daemons	19:56
Stskeeps	sounds sane	19:56
Stskeeps	:P	19:56
auke	we're not doing (allowing) sysvinit compatibility	19:56
Stskeeps	that's fine, really - i mean, do you still allow some kind of daemons to be added though?	19:57
timeless_mbp	no compat is always good! :)	19:57
auke	iow everything needs a systemd service file, no more init.d scripts	19:57
Stskeeps	makes sense	19:57
auke	yes daemons will be allowed when appropriate	19:57
auke	I intend to heavily police addition of services though	19:58
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Stskeeps	everything is better than a huge rc.sysinit, though	19:58
auke	fastinit is almost entirely gone already	19:59
lamikr	auke what's the best thing in systemd compared to scripts in /etc/init.d ?	20:00
Stskeeps	lamikr: sanity? :>	20:00
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auke	lamikr: the fact that it doesn't have /etc/init.d	20:00
auke	:)	20:00
Stskeeps	auke: still, would be good to have this sketch in a OBS devel:* project or gitorious to see it evolving	20:01
Stskeeps	unless you need contribution approval for that work :P	20:01
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lamikr	auke I hope not replaced with some perl scripts :-)	20:01
auke	approval is not an issue - it's all open source already	20:02
Stskeeps	so is uxlaunch and such gone too?	20:03
auke	no, we'll leave uxlaunch in for the initial merge of systemd	20:04
Stskeeps	k	20:04
auke	it's too easy to leave it in - that part works reasonably well right now	20:04
lamikr	That would be a nice thing if init.d rc,sysinit and uxlaunch could be unified to one thing. (for example to this systemd)	20:05
lamikr	does systemd has some HA functionality like monitoring and restart of started processes if needed?	20:05
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auke	yes, which is one of the reasons why we're switching to systemd	20:06
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auke	well init.d and rc.sysinit are gone with systemd already	20:07
lamikr	ok, then I see one good point for the switch... Need to stop now, unlike stskeeps with high end hotel connection, I have something like 1G connection from laptop via bluetooth...	20:07
auke	uxlaunch is a 'minor hurdle' to doing things the right way	20:08
auke	but managing the user session from within systemd is afaik not ready yet	20:08
Stskeeps	auke: is there stuff to monitor process alive-ness? pinging and such	20:08
auke	systemctl	20:08
Stskeeps	k	20:08
Stskeeps	i've seen really bizarre happenings on mobile devices with 'stuck' processes/need for process watchdogs so	20:09
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auke	http://pastebin.com/WGGFDv4S	20:09
lbt	auke: systemd makes sense ... emacs (and a ton of other stuff) doesn't	20:09
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lbt	but no reason to pick on you other than to get you involved :)	20:10
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auke	http://pastebin.com/dg6WQeJt	20:12
auke	^^ output from 2 of the systemd commands	20:12
Stskeeps	ah, nice	20:12
auke	the second one shows time consumption	20:12
auke	note, uxlaunch + desktop isn't accounted for by systemd	20:13
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auke	boot time is exactly the same with systemd as it was with sysvinit on my test box (18sec)	20:13
lamikr	auke Can you paste also an example from the some kind of config file/launch script that systemd uses for launching some process like messagebus for example?	20:14
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gabrbedd	lbt: No!!! Don't take away my emacs!	20:15
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auke	lamikr: all of that is on the systemd wiki - http://0pointer.de/public/systemd-man/	20:16
auke	systemd's documentation is pretty decent	20:16
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lamikr	auke Ok, I will try to check. Need now to switch from bus to train. Bye	20:22
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lbt	gabrbedd: heh ... would that be the emacs that builds against gtk?	20:26
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* alterego wonders when he'll know if they'll accept his request for summit sponsorship		20:27
alterego	Also wondering if it includes hotel costs	20:27
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GeneralAntilles	alterego: yes.	20:27
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alterego	GeneralAntilles: does that mean I need to select a hotel?	20:28
alterego	Because I defered that option	20:28
GeneralAntilles	Yes.	20:28
alterego	crap,	20:29
* alterego quickly ammends submission		20:29
gabrbedd	lbt: Yes. Is GTK being dropped?	20:30
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alterego	They should really make these forms clearer.	20:30
GeneralAntilles	Yes.	20:30
GeneralAntilles	I emailed -community about it after the form went live.	20:30
GeneralAntilles	But the form doesn't indicate clearly.	20:30
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alterego	:/	20:31
alterego	I'm guessing the airfares input box is really just airfares though	20:31
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GeneralAntilles	Yes	20:32
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timeless_mbp	it tried to be relatively clear that it was just airfare	20:33
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timeless_mbp	they should have said that if you're expecting sponsorship that you should reserve the primary hotel	20:33
timeless_mbp	(regency?)	20:33
timeless_mbp	but oh well	20:33
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gabrbedd	lbt: Anyway, I was under the impression that GTK was here to stay... and having Emacs in a repo makes my life lots easier. :-)	20:33
* timeless_mbp slaps gabrbedd with a trout		20:34
gabrbedd	lbt: Would be awesome if we could get kcachegrind... but I won't go there. :-)	20:34
* gabrbedd breads the trout and fries it and shares it with timeless_mbp		20:34
timeless_mbp	thanks!	20:34
* timeless_mbp is starving		20:34
timeless_mbp	we're waiting for some images to be built before we can get dinner	20:35
gabrbedd	timeless_mbp: curious, tho... why the slap?	20:35
lbt	gabrbedd: the point is to make it easier to add things to a useable MeeGo distro / repo	20:35
gabrbedd	:-p	20:35
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timeless_mbp	the gtk/emacs stuff	20:35
lbt	why can't you have kcachegrind in core?	20:35
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gabrbedd	lbt: I don't see how removing GTK+ and emacs makes it easier to add usable things to MeeGo... you'll have to connect the dots for me.	20:36
gabrbedd	lbt: Doesn't kcachegrind depend on KDE ?	20:36
lbt	yes	20:37
gabrbedd	timeless_mbp: Don't be a hater! :-)	20:37
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timeless_mbp	:)	20:37
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gabrbedd	I can understand keeping KDE out of MeeGo Core... but removing GTK floors me. (and I'm no gtk fanboi, either)	20:38
lbt	gabrbedd: my position is that meego core should be minimal and QA there should focus on the part of meego needed to meet vendor requirements	20:38
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lbt	then there should be a community managed 'distro'	20:38
lbt	with emacs/kde etc available	20:38
lbt	which would be completely ignored by core	20:39
lbt	unless we also get them to put their tools in it	20:39
lbt	and eat their own dogfood	20:39
lbt	(ie make the OS that they want to use be subject to the core/vendor interface)	20:39
gabrbedd	lbt: emacs moved to community repo FULL ACK	20:40
gabrbedd	lbt: GTK+, not so much	20:40
lbt	fair	20:40
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lbt	I perhaps shouldn't have mentioned gtk - I'm not sufficiently aware of the position	20:40
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lbt	I thought it was on the way out ... dunno	20:41
lbt	\o/	20:41
lbt	err wrong window	20:42
lbt	but \o/ anyhow :)	20:42
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gabrbedd	Well, if MeeGo is a platform were you really need to rewrite everything for the platform...	20:42
gabrbedd	Then why not just rewrite it for Android or something?	20:43
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gabrbedd	So, removing things like GTK+, IMHO, removes one of MeeGo's advantages -- and might be game over for our organization.	20:45
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gabrbedd	However, I'm encountering this point-of-view a lot in the MeeGo community... and it kind of troubles me.	20:47
gabrbedd	Porting and maintaining apps to MeeGo is plain hard enough without deleting them from Core.	20:47
gabrbedd	</soapbox>	20:48
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momesana	Hi	21:08
momesana	I've just installed 2GB of ram in my WeTab running MeeGo which I installed the day before yesterday	21:08
momesana	and it still tells me I have about 8xx mb of ram	21:08
auke	what does `free` say?	21:09
momesana	the same	21:09
momesana	I was reffering to free -m	21:09
auke	then the kernel is not configured to support more than 1gb of memory, or the memory is not visible to the kernel	21:09
momesana	I tried zcat /proc/config.gz \| grep HIGHMEM4G but realized they haven't enabled the config.gz option	21:09
auke	does the bios report 2gb?	21:09
momesana	that is CONFIG_IKCONFIG_PROC	21:09
auke	a copy of the config is in /boot/	21:10
momesana	auke: I can't see it in the bios	21:10
momesana	let me boot it up and look	21:10
momesana	I've looked for that in the bios in vain	21:10
momesana	there isn't any information about the ram size	21:10
momesana	but let me boot into MeeGo again	21:11
momesana	takes an eternity to boot. What are we using? SysVInit?	21:12
auke	currently, yes	21:12
momesana	hm	21:12
momesana	I wonder what it takes to get system d running on it	21:13
gabrbedd	momesana: is this a new or old install of MeeGo? If it's old... clean out /tmp and it'll boot faster.	21:13
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momesana	new	21:13
momesana	ok	21:13
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momesana	btw, there is a terminal provided but no virtual keyboard to type in it	21:14
momesana	is there a solution or shall I hack together an own terminal emulator?	21:14
auke	momesana: we're working on converting meego to systemd, you might want to wait for that instead :)	21:15
gabrbedd	momesana: You'll need a USB keyboard or something.	21:15
auke	but, it won't be faster per se	21:15
gabrbedd	momesana: The virtual keyboard only supports Qt apps, pretty much.	21:15
momesana	well, how about getting out a Qt based terminal	21:15
momesana	shouldn't be too difficult	21:16
momesana	One question, if I take a simple Qt based app and then click a QLineEdit or QTextEdit ... will it automatically popup the virtual keyboard?	21:16
gabrbedd	momesana: I (personally) would rather a button or something where a virtual keyboard pops out and will work for anything. (like Win7)	21:16
gabrbedd	momesana: Yeah, it's supposed to.	21:17
gabrbedd	momesana: I've even seen it work with the GTK-based terminal on the netbook UX	21:17
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momesana_	seems like I was disconnected	21:18
momesana_	so will the virtual keyboard automatically popup when I use a Qt based application?	21:18
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gabrbedd	yes	21:19
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momesana_	good to know	21:19
gabrbedd	momesana: I (personally) would rather a button or something where a virtual keyboard pops out and will work for anything. (like Win7)	21:19
momesana_	damn, is that xterm?	21:19
gabrbedd	momesana: I've even seen it work with the GTK-based terminal on the netbook UX	21:19
pvuorela	momesana_: default qt style requires a click on focused text entry to request virtual keyboard (or software input panel as qt calls those).	21:19
gabrbedd	yeah, that's xterm	21:19
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momesana_	ok, back to the ram issue.	21:22
pvuorela	gabrbedd: if by button you mean just a keyboard sending x events or something, it will be limited in use.	21:22
momesana_	just as I had assumed, HIGHMEM4G is not enabled	21:22
momesana_	instead we have CONFIG_NOHIGHMEM=y	21:22
pvuorela	and the meego virtual keyboard is getting gtk+ support too.	21:22
momesana_	yeah, but well ... down with Gtk+	21:22
momesana_	Qt is the way to go	21:23
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pvuorela	the more support in different apps the better.	21:23
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gabrbedd	pvuorela: Right... that's understood about it being limited. But it's better than nothing.	21:24
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pvuorela	sure.	21:24
momesana_	pvuorela: true.	21:24
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momesana_	pvuorela: yet, I would like to see Qt get a little more momentum	21:25
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mikhas	momesana_, that the whole app-dev facing API on MeeGo is basically Qt and stuff, how is that not enough momentum?	21:29
momesana_	yeah, just afraid it might lose momentum since Nokia dropped MeeGo and thus also Qt	21:29
mikhas	nah, dont be so pessimistic, that's my job already	21:30
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momesana_	:)	21:31
mikhas	really, things will work out OK, eventually	21:31
momesana_	I hope you are right	21:32
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mikhas	if you werent believing that yourself already, you wouldnt be on this channel ;-)	21:33
mikhas	god, I sound like hte oracle now	21:33
momesana_	:-D	21:34
mikhas	bergie, oopsie - planet didnt like the image?	21:35
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Jhinta	hi , evry one need some help with kernel rouce	21:40
Jhinta	my sdcard get mounted after cmdline and looking fo a way to fix this , ( desire hd )	21:41
Jhinta	anyone	21:41
auke	wait what where?	21:42
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bergie	mikhas: I guess we need to eliminate floats there ;-)	21:56
gabrbedd	bergie: Whatever happened to kinder, gentler, softer floats?	21:58
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bergie	gabrbedd: no such things when aggregating contents from others ;-)	22:02
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gabrbedd	bergie: :-)	22:04
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alterego	can some one tell me why the check out date only has 20th or 21st in the room reservation?	23:39
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Stskeeps	check out? :P	23:40
alterego	Oh it's room dependant ..	23:40
alterego	I have to book a standard double queens room ..	23:40
alterego	I'm confused ...	23:41
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alterego	They better not take anything out of my account :S	23:55
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