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| *** ChanServ changes topic to "channel for general discussions about MeeGo | MeeGo project info: http://meego.com/ | This channel is logged at http://mg.pov.lt/meego-irclog/ | IRC guidelines and more info: http://bit.ly/cYT2Hs/ | For 'bar' talk (rumours, gossip, etc), please go to #meego-bar" | 00:22 | |
| mikhas_ | rustylynch, filed bug 15336 which has patches to completely disable reaction maps for keyboard | 00:24 |
|---|---|---|
| MeeGoBot | Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15336 nor, Undecided, ---, x2rich, NEW, Disable reaction maps for meegotouch-inputmethodkeyboard | 00:24 |
| mikhas_ | but someone else needs to put the qmake change into the spec file | 00:24 |
| mikhas_ | happy testing ;-) | 00:24 |
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| mikhas_ | I hope that one or the other solution overcomes the integration barrier | 00:25 |
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| rustylynch | ok | 00:30 |
| rustylynch | btw... there was a qt update that triggered the universe to rebuild | 00:30 |
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| w00t_ | hooray, Qt updates | 00:31 |
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| w00t_ | :-) | 00:31 |
| rustylynch | looks like it was just a small patch | 00:31 |
| rustylynch | unlike the qt 4.7.2 that ruined my week | 00:31 |
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| w00t_ | what would life be if everything just worked? ;) | 00:32 |
| rustylynch | well... at least now i finally have my code public, so i don't have to just sit and take it when a meego update breaks me | 00:33 |
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| mikhas_ | rustylynch, please inform araujo if one of the workarounds proves to be successful - he usually integrates MeeGo Input Methods stuff. me goes now | 00:44 |
| rustylynch | mikhas_: ok | 00:45 |
| gabrbedd | Stskeeps: Have you heard anything new regarding Handset UX vs. Tablet UX? | 00:46 |
| * gabrbedd is still confused on the direction.... | 00:46 | |
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| rustylynch | so far the reactionmaps patch is working | 01:15 |
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| rustylynch | araujo: mikhas_'s fix seems to be working... on my 20th reboot and haven't crashed yet | 01:26 |
| * rustylynch makes a note in the bug report | 01:26 | |
| rustylynch | araujo: should i sr my home:rusty/meegotouch-feedbackreactionmaps to some place? | 01:30 |
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| rustylynch | araujo, mikhas_, i just sr'ed the crasher workaround into devel:qt-mtf | 01:38 |
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| timeless_w7ip | could someone please remind dneary that he owes me a ping :) | 02:03 |
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| gabrbedd | dmeary: timeless_w7ip sez you owe him a ping. :-P | 02:39 |
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| MrBIOS | anybody around? | 03:09 |
| gabrbedd | no | 03:10 |
| gabrbedd | :-p | 03:10 |
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| MrBIOS | is mobilin fully dead? Why doesn't the website say it's dead? | 03:17 |
| MrBIOS | moblin | 03:17 |
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| berndhs | dunno, maybe ask in #moblin | 03:18 |
| MrBIOS | nobody alive in thgere | 03:18 |
| gabrbedd | MrBIOS: Yes, it's dead. | 03:19 |
| MrBIOS | okay, well, the website doesn't say that | 03:19 |
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| gabrbedd | There might be some maint. things happen -- but it's dead. | 03:19 |
| MrBIOS | and the login/registration system is completely broken | 03:19 |
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| gabrbedd | For example, the top 3 news items on front page talk about the transfer to MeeGo | 03:20 |
| gabrbedd | And their last release was in 2009 | 03:20 |
| MrBIOS | yes, I see it | 03:20 |
| gabrbedd | All their web pages, including bugzilla, also point to MeeGo. | 03:21 |
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| gabrbedd | So, unlike Maemo... Moblin is really dead. | 03:22 |
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| MrBIOS | I read something on the moblin site about the core bits being based atop Fedora (or at least utilizing rpm package format) Is that still the case? | 03:23 |
| MrBIOS | (with MeeGo) | 03:23 |
| berndhs | meego is its own distro | 03:24 |
| berndhs | not on top of anything | 03:24 |
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| gabrbedd | MrBIOS: Yeah, what berndhs said! | 03:27 |
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| gabrbedd | It's still RPM-based... but these days the infrastructure bears more resemblance to OpenSuSe than Fedora. | 03:27 |
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| gabrbedd | However, it does not use /any/ packages from /any/ other distro. | 03:28 |
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| MrBIOS | gabrbedd, got it, thanks. Are things like libc atom-optimized? | 03:41 |
| MrBIOS | glibc | 03:41 |
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| gabrbedd | MrBIOS: As far as compiler flags... they're /supposed/ to be. However, there was a lot of push-back about that. | 03:42 |
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| MrBIOS | which version of compiler is in use? | 03:42 |
| gabrbedd | MrBIOS: So, things like glibc might /not/ be... in order for devs to be able to compile packages on their non-SSSE3 host machine. | 03:42 |
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| gabrbedd | gcc 4.4, I think. Look in repo.meego.org to verify. | 03:43 |
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| MrBIOS | 4.4? Atom-specific GCC optimizations weren't introduced until 4.5.1 AFAIK | 03:43 |
| thiago | we're using 4.5 | 03:43 |
| thiago | since 1.1 I think | 03:44 |
| MrBIOS | got it, and is it clear whether or not atom-specific optimization flags are being used in 1.1? | 03:44 |
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| thiago | it's clear: code is compiled with SSSE3 | 03:45 |
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| thiago | whether the compiler makes use of them or not, that's a different thing | 03:45 |
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| MrBIOS | are the flags used documented somewhere? In a build script in svn/git, by chance? | 03:45 |
| thiago | echo $CFLAGS | 03:45 |
| thiago | so it's somewhere in /etc (probably /etc/profile) | 03:45 |
| MrBIOS | I don't have an install handy | 03:46 |
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| w00t_ | OBS can probably tell you | 03:46 |
| w00t_ | I have no idea how to get OBS to tell you though | 03:46 |
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| gabrbedd | MrBIOS: OBS (which builds all official packages) is definately setting the flags. | 03:50 |
| gabrbedd | MrBIOS: You can verify by reviewing the build logs at build.meego.com | 03:50 |
| MrBIOS | cool, thanks | 03:50 |
| gabrbedd | MrBIOS: On an actual installation... it's not quite so clear that the flag is getting set properly. | 03:51 |
| gabrbedd | For my packages, I manually set it in /etc/rpmrc or something. | 03:51 |
| MrBIOS | thanks, this helps clarify things for me: http://build.meego.com/package/files?package=glibc&project=MeeGo%3A1.1%3ACore | 03:53 |
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| rustylynch | MrBIOS: i think you might rather look at Trunk unless you have a good reason to look at 1.1: http://build.meego.com/package/files?package=glibc&project=Trunk | 03:56 |
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| rustylynch | not that i know what's different in our glibc package | 03:57 |
| thiago | probably just the compiler flags | 03:58 |
| thiago | though I do remember that glibc has some compile-time options for assembly code | 03:58 |
| thiago | I don't remember if it does runtime-detection for things like memcpy | 03:58 |
| gabrbedd | MrBios: Here's the latest glibc build log http://build.meego.com/package/rawlog?arch=i586&package=glibc&project=Trunk&repository=standard | 03:59 |
| gabrbedd | + CFLAGS='-O2 -g -pipe -Wall -Wp,-D_FORTIFY_SOURCE=2 -fexceptions -fstack-protector --param=ssp-buffer-size=4 -Wformat -Wformat-security -m32 -march=core2 -mssse3 -mtune=atom -mfpmath=sse -fasynchronous-unwind-tables -fno-omit-frame-pointer' | 04:00 |
| gabrbedd | + export CFLAGS | 04:00 |
| MrBIOS | has anybody experimented with creating 64 bit x86 builds? | 04:01 |
| thiago | -fexceptions for C? | 04:01 |
| MrBIOS | I'm fine with trunk | 04:02 |
| MrBIOS | are there any nightly core image builds? | 04:02 |
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| gabrbedd | thiago: TFM for -fexceptions... However, you may need | 04:06 |
| gabrbedd | to enable this option when compiling C code that needs to interoperate properly with exception | 04:06 |
| gabrbedd | handlers written in C++. | 04:06 |
| gabrbedd | MrBIOS: I haven't heard of anyone doing 64 bit builds, and there are no plans to do it with MeeGo. | 04:07 |
| MrBIOS | *nod* | 04:07 |
| MrBIOS | I figured, we may just do them in-house :) | 04:07 |
| gabrbedd | MrBIOS: Although... I've been curious to try a 64-bit build on an atom... so if you do it, tell people about it. :-) | 04:07 |
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| MrBIOS | I will, I work for a company that makes a 256-node Atom N570-based server appliance, which is x86_64 capable | 04:09 |
| gabrbedd | MrBIOS: Interesting! What's the advantage of using Atom over something like an i-series? | 04:10 |
| MrBIOS | performance/watt, mostly | 04:10 |
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| w00t_ | and now, for some late night comedic relief: http://lolpics.se/13696-with-her-spoon | 04:12 |
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| user__ | heyo | 05:29 |
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| iekku | morning | 06:20 |
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| wmarone_ | grr hate android's custom build system | 07:15 |
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| Stskeeps | morn wassupnari | 07:54 |
| wassupnari | oh, hi :) | 07:54 |
| Stskeeps | how is it going? | 07:55 |
| wassupnari | good good, how are you? | 07:55 |
| wassupnari | i'm currently working om meego multi-touch on 1.1.99 tablet UI | 07:55 |
| wassupnari | does meego support multi-touch on 1.1.99 version? | 07:56 |
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| Stskeeps | right, let me summarize the situation there. Provided you have a kernel driver that speaks the multitouch protocol in kernel to xorg-x11-drv-mtev, then Qt should be able to pick it up | 07:57 |
| Stskeeps | problem is just that Qt on ARM is temporarily disabling xinput2 because we had a problem with single touch | 07:57 |
| Stskeeps | this is getting fixed still, needed coordination since the problem existed on Intel too | 07:57 |
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| gabrbedd | wassupnari: What hardware are you using? | 07:58 |
| wassupnari | NVIDIA, tegra chip, we using. | 07:58 |
| Stskeeps | wassupnari: http://download.meego.com/live/devel:/qt-mtf:/qt-xi2/Trunk/ is Qt packages that has xinput2 enabled | 07:58 |
| wassupnari | i'm pretty confused about the architecture of Qt and xinput2. | 07:59 |
| Stskeeps | right | 07:59 |
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| Stskeeps | the chain goes along the lines of: kernel driver -> xorg-x11-drv-mtev -> xorg (xinput2) -> qt | 08:00 |
| gabrbedd | wassupnari: Good! That means you're paying attention. :-) | 08:00 |
| gabrbedd | BTW, is xorg-x11-drv-mtev is an interrim solution | 08:01 |
| Stskeeps | gabrbedd: thiago sent a mail long ago on the direction.. things aren't perfect in meego 1.2 but at least they're working :P | 08:01 |
| Stskeeps | there was something about xorg release schedules | 08:01 |
| wassupnari | if you see the architecture here : http://meego.com/developers/meego-architecture/meego-architecture-layer-view | 08:01 |
| gabrbedd | Yeah... the version of Xorg we use doesn't officially have XInput2... | 08:02 |
| wassupnari | Qt which you mentioned is on core OS or application framework? | 08:02 |
| gabrbedd | It's being added in the /next/ version of Xorg. | 08:02 |
| Stskeeps | wassupnari: qt's part of the core OS.. the architecture drawings are currently not very informative :) | 08:02 |
| gabrbedd | However... MeeGo has added in the XInput2 protocol to get MT off the ground. | 08:02 |
| wassupnari | okay | 08:02 |
| wassupnari | so, the Qt in Core OS is depending on the CPU architecture, am i right? | 08:03 |
| gabrbedd | wassupnari: Huh? | 08:04 |
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| Stskeeps | wassupnari: well, everything is compiled for a cpu architecture :) anyway, you need to get the package 'xorg-x11-utils-xinput' | 08:05 |
| Stskeeps | and get 'xinput test-xi2' working | 08:05 |
| Stskeeps | when that seems to give proper output from your touchscreen, it should be possible to get MT in Qt too | 08:05 |
| wassupnari | okay, i'll try it | 08:05 |
| Stskeeps | and verify that the mtev xorg driver is in use | 08:06 |
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| gabrbedd | wassupnari: FYI, to enable MT for my touch screen I had to... | 08:07 |
| gabrbedd | 1) Get the kernel driver. In my case I had to backport it from Linus's branch | 08:07 |
| gabrbedd | 2) Install xorg-x11-drv-mtev | 08:08 |
| gabrbedd | 3) Add a a file in /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/ to map my device to the mtev driver | 08:08 |
| gabrbedd | There's probably a file with a name like /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/60-cando-mtev.conf that you can use as an example. | 08:09 |
| wassupnari | i already done 1,2,3. :) thax though | 08:10 |
| Stskeeps | wassupnari: we hope to have qt built for xinput2 by default by next weekly image | 08:12 |
| Stskeeps | (for ARM) | 08:12 |
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| Stskeeps | we're basically waiting for xorg-x11-drv-evdev to be approved for Trunk:Testing and a kernel change on Intel's IVI stuff to go in, so we don't break anything | 08:14 |
| wassupnari | okay, i see. hm.. can i ask a question? | 08:16 |
| Stskeeps | always | 08:16 |
| wassupnari | before i install the newly released Qt package, I had tested something.. | 08:16 |
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| wassupnari | if i run the "xinput test" with evdev driver, and touch the screen | 08:17 |
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| wassupnari | there are press/release and touch coordinates are shown, | 08:17 |
| wassupnari | but if i run the xinput test with mtev driver, then touch coordinates are shown, but press/release messages aren't | 08:18 |
| wassupnari | is that common result? or i have some problem with device driver and xorg-mtev driver? | 08:19 |
| Stskeeps | i think that's how it's supposed to work, but i don't have a mtev device nearby | 08:19 |
| wassupnari | than means you don't have touch device for testing the mtev driver? | 08:20 |
| Stskeeps | i have one, but i'm in denmark right now ;) | 08:20 |
| Stskeeps | so don't have it along | 08:20 |
| wassupnari | oh, i see | 08:20 |
| wassupnari | and do you know what the 'multipointtouchplugin' is related to? | 08:22 |
| Stskeeps | obsolete old thing, now integrated into qt | 08:22 |
| wassupnari | okay, that make me clear :) | 08:23 |
| gabrbedd | I've got one... I can check. | 08:31 |
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| gabrbedd | wassupnari: running `xinput test-xi2` ... | 08:45 |
| gabrbedd | I see some button stuff... | 08:46 |
| gabrbedd | But the big deal is that valuators: shows 5 parameters for each finger that is touching the screen. | 08:46 |
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| wassupnari | gabrbedd : can you see the press/release event too? | 08:47 |
| gabrbedd | You mean with `xinput test 11` ?? Yes. | 08:48 |
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| gabrbedd | And with 5 parameters per finger. | 08:48 |
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| wassupnari | are you testing with evdev or mtev? | 08:49 |
| gabrbedd | mtev | 08:49 |
| gabrbedd | Cando 10.1 on Ideapad | 08:49 |
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| wassupnari | could you share that kernel driver source code? :) | 08:50 |
| wassupnari | please? :) | 08:50 |
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| gabrbedd | What touchscreen device do you have? | 08:52 |
| gabrbedd | The driver I have isn't for Cando... it's for a "Hanvon 10.1" | 08:52 |
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| wassupnari | i have atmel_maxtouch and i'm just trying to compare with mine :) | 08:53 |
| gabrbedd | Anyway, the hid-multitouch driver was posted here http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-kernel/2011-March/002344.html | 08:53 |
| Stskeeps | wassupnari: i think we have a mtev enabled atmel_maxtouch in one of the meego kernels | 08:54 |
| gabrbedd | That's the "title page" -- first of 9 messages | 08:54 |
| wassupnari | okay, | 08:54 |
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| gabrbedd | good night guys... :-) | 08:55 |
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| gabrbedd | BTW, Stskeeps -- you rock. :-) | 08:56 |
| wassupnari | Stskeeps : do you know where is it? | 08:56 |
| wassupnari | gabrbedd : good night! | 08:56 |
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| wassupnari | http://www.mail-archive.com/meego-kernel@lists.meego.com/msg00639.html this one? | 09:00 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, i think so | 09:01 |
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| djszapi | Is the "hl" version quite different from other "l" version ? | 09:08 |
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| bef0rd | its hard | 09:09 |
| djszapi | Couldn't the compilar flags just be implemented also in the "l" version ? | 09:09 |
| djszapi | instead of just the "hl" version ? | 09:09 |
| djszapi | * compiler *just in the "hl" verison | 09:09 |
| djszapi | * version, ahh typos. | 09:09 |
| djszapi | developers would not be forced to use the "hl" only. | 09:09 |
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| bef0rd | not sure what you are asking | 09:10 |
| bef0rd | xD | 09:10 |
| bef0rd | but yes, the 'l' is soft fp, hl, is hardfp | 09:10 |
| bef0rd | recompiled everything, also some stuff didnt work with just recompiling, | 09:10 |
| bef0rd | Stskeeps had to patch a lot of stuff, there are reports about it on the mail list I believe, or there was a meego bug with the progress | 09:11 |
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| djszapi | bef0rd: :) | 09:13 |
| djszapi | I am too vague this morning :p | 09:13 |
| djszapi | CXXFLAGS is set properly in the "hl" version, the most important part for me is the target. | 09:13 |
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| djszapi | bef0rd: but I would like to have that feature if it is possible with the "l" image, not sure it is possible in the soft image. | 09:13 |
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| djszapi | not sure what the obstacle is. | 09:14 |
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| djszapi | bef0rd: that way I could avoid a bugreport against the "hl" :) | 09:14 |
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| djszapi | Stskeeps: uhh | 09:23 |
| djszapi | I cannot get any call, nor even with the opened dialer. | 09:23 |
| djszapi | it worked last week :-S | 09:23 |
| djszapi | I thought it was going to be better :o | 09:23 |
| djszapi | not worse. | 09:23 |
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| jukkaeklund | I find it interesting that there are no release blockers for MeeGo 1.2 | 11:03 |
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| timeless_w7ip | jukkaeklund: you'd rather 100? | 11:11 |
| jukkaeklund | timeless_w7ip: it looks like there are no blockers defined, so there can't be any number. this is worrying | 11:12 |
| jukkaeklund | ie. what is the metric that defines when MeeGo 1.2 is releasable? | 11:12 |
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| timeless_w7ip | for a time based release | 11:14 |
| timeless_w7ip | i'd hope it's always releasable :) | 11:14 |
| jukkaeklund | there are some proposals though: https://bugs.meego.com/buglist.cgi?field0-0-0=flagtypes.name&query_format=advanced&type0-0-0=substring&value0-0-0=MeeGo_Release_Blocker | 11:14 |
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| fim_f | hi everyone | 11:53 |
| iekku | hi | 11:53 |
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| djszapi | Stskeeps: can you tell me briefly why cannot the CXXFALGS be implemented in the soft image and whether there is any drawback of using the hard image for application development ? | 12:15 |
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| saidinesh5 | pohly: i m caught up with exams the whole of this week, so will test out the kwallet thing in GNOME this weekend.. basically last when i had gnome it was like when in gnome | 12:26 |
| saidinesh5 | and when compiled with both kwallet and gnome-keyring | 12:26 |
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| saidinesh5 | it will choose gnome-keyring | 12:26 |
| saidinesh5 | if in kde, it chose kwallet | 12:27 |
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| saidinesh5 | actually when in kde , it goes for kwallet , anywhere else gnome-keyring | 12:27 |
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| pohly | saidinesh5: I'd like to know whether the corresponding issue shall be considered resolved before reviewing the actual code. Think of it as setting the right expectations :-) | 12:28 |
| pohly | From what you said, it looks like it is resolved. | 12:28 |
| saidinesh5 | well but from what is requested over there | 12:28 |
| saidinesh5 | a command line argument | 12:28 |
| CosmoHill | saidinesh5: best of luck with the exams | 12:28 |
| saidinesh5 | i didnt think of that | 12:28 |
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| saidinesh5 | thanks CosmoHill :) | 12:28 |
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| pohly | Agreed, not all of it. But the automatism should be good enough in practice for SyncEvolution 1.2. | 12:29 |
| CosmoHill | I have 2 at the end of may / start of june | 12:29 |
| saidinesh5 | hmm.. sure :) | 12:29 |
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| saidinesh5 | and then, also I cannot verify the working of kde-notes (kjots syncing) because Ovi apparently gives a Local error with syncevo still | 12:30 |
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| saidinesh5 | and mobical doesn't seem to accept syncevo anymore | 12:30 |
| saidinesh5 | i might have lost the password though | 12:30 |
| saidinesh5 | CosmoHill: start of june? well I ll give you your good luck then :) | 12:32 |
| CosmoHill | can I have a bit up front to use on my coursework? :p | 12:32 |
| saidinesh5 | hehe, sure, good luck :) | 12:32 |
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| saidinesh5 | pohly: another quick question, we have openobex as one of our dependancies right? and when i checked the openobex project, it has support for USB too.. so why doesn't syncevo support usb? | 12:33 |
| CosmoHill | merci | 12:34 |
| saidinesh5 | Oh , i should have given bon chance then :P | 12:34 |
| saidinesh5 | :) | 12:34 |
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| pohly | saidinesh5: because we don't have code which detects USB devices, initializes communication, etc. Feel free to add it ;-} | 12:36 |
| pohly | OBEX setup is different for USB and Bluetooth. | 12:36 |
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| saidinesh5 | Ahh... obextransportagent.h and cpp ? | 12:38 |
| timeless_w7ip | grr | 12:40 |
| timeless_w7ip | anyone from it around? | 12:40 |
| timeless_w7ip | my box seems to be missing network connectivity :( | 12:40 |
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| CosmoHill | timeless_w7ip: wifi or ethernet? | 12:45 |
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| timeless_w7ip | cosmohill: OSU hosted service | 12:47 |
| timeless_w7ip | i presume it doesn't have wifi :) | 12:47 |
| timeless_w7ip | it=information technology, not Italy :) | 12:48 |
| CosmoHill | I was gonna make a joke about it being IT and not it | 12:48 |
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| * timeless_w7ip isn't really up for it | 12:50 | |
| * CosmoHill wonders if that was a pun | 12:50 | |
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| mikhas | heya, I cannot upload a PDF to the MeeGo wiki | 12:54 |
| mikhas | heh, disabling JavaScript did the trick | 12:57 |
| timeless_w7ip | lol | 12:57 |
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| * timeless_w7ip pokes andre__ | 13:28 | |
| timeless_w7ip | andre__: so, i think someone needs to write up something for meegons explaining how to send bugs to upstream | 13:28 |
| andre__ | timeless_w7ip, file a bug about community processes and assign it to me | 13:29 |
| timeless_w7ip | because so far the bugs which belong upstream are getting prioritized as "low" and i expect them to be lost+forgotten | 13:29 |
| timeless_w7ip | ok | 13:29 |
| andre__ | I've seen some bad examples too when it came to translations (e.g. banshee) | 13:29 |
| timeless_w7ip | ouch | 13:29 |
| timeless_w7ip | andre__: i'm basically filling bugs.meego w/ a bunch of bugs so people can learn how to get this right | 13:30 |
| timeless_w7ip | but... someone will have to hold people's hands | 13:30 |
| andre__ | CC me | 13:30 |
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| timeless_w7ip | andre__: there are 36 bugs | 13:38 |
| timeless_w7ip | and someone got "Clever" and removed change several bugs at once | 13:38 |
| timeless_w7ip | i'm not going to manually cc you to 36 bugs :( | 13:38 |
| andre__ | timeless_w7ip, then send me the buglist.cgi for them | 13:39 |
| timeless_w7ip | ok | 13:39 |
| timeless_w7ip | https://bugs.meego.com/buglist.cgi?resolution=---&classification=MeeGo%20Platform&reporter=timeless@gmail.com | 13:39 |
| timeless_w7ip | => andre__ :) | 13:40 |
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| andre__ | timeless_w7ip, err, they are *all* meant for upstream? | 13:40 |
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| timeless_w7ip | well, a couple migt not be | 13:41 |
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| timeless_w7ip | s/gt/ght/ | 13:41 |
| infobot | timeless_w7ip meant: well, a couple might not be | 13:41 |
| timeless_w7ip | andre__: my hope is that we can teach QA/Maintainers how to work w/ upstream | 13:41 |
| timeless_w7ip | i'm not asking *you* to send them to upstream | 13:41 |
| andre__ | I see... | 13:41 |
| jonnor | why would you file bugs about upstream issues in a distro, and not just file them upstream | 13:41 |
| timeless_w7ip | but if we're a downstream, then we need to be able to report bugs upstream when we get them | 13:41 |
| andre__ | jonnor: for trackability of the fix in downstream? | 13:42 |
| andre__ | like when the fix was shipped in the distro according to TM and such | 13:42 |
| timeless_w7ip | jonnor: note that debian and ubuntu also track bugs as a downstream | 13:42 |
| timeless_w7ip | i believe redhat does too | 13:42 |
| timeless_w7ip | this is standard behavior for a "proper distro" | 13:42 |
| andre__ | I agree | 13:42 |
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| jonnor | andre__: if it is important enough, sure, create a tracking bug for it | 13:43 |
| jonnor | but in my opinion, you do that after you've files the bug upstream | 13:43 |
| jonnor | in the cases where you know its an upstream issue | 13:43 |
| andre__ | jonnor: if you *know* that it's an upstream issue, maybe. | 13:43 |
| andre__ | ah. heh :) | 13:43 |
| timeless_w7ip | jonnor: users can't be expected to have any idea where upstream is | 13:43 |
| timeless_w7ip | or how to know that it is indeed coming from upstream | 13:43 |
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| andre__ | well, code level issues are not really user land I'd say | 13:43 |
| timeless_w7ip | remember, part of being a distro is making an absolute mess of upstream | 13:44 |
| jonnor | it should be about helping upstream | 13:44 |
| timeless_w7ip | right, and part of helping upstream is for downstream maintainers to be in the habit of working with upstream | 13:44 |
| timeless_w7ip | including reporting bugs to it and sending patches | 13:44 |
| jonnor | I don't see how overloading maintainers with bugs that you know are upstream issues is a good approach for that | 13:45 |
| timeless_w7ip | i don't think 3 bugs for a maintainer is "overloading" | 13:45 |
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| timeless_w7ip | and if a maintainer is maintaining 100 packages, he's doing something wrong and asking for trouble | 13:46 |
| timeless_w7ip | and it's better for him to understand that *early* | 13:46 |
| timeless_w7ip | instead of for the problem to be discovered later | 13:46 |
| * timeless_w7ip simulates average load | 13:46 | |
| timeless_w7ip | and note, that i really am not in a position to know if a bug exists in upstream | 13:47 |
| timeless_w7ip | and i certainly have no idea where upstream is | 13:47 |
| timeless_w7ip | if you ship it, you're responsible for it <period> | 13:47 |
| timeless_w7ip | if you ship a binary to me, then under most open source licenses, it's <your> job to offer the sources to me, not your upstream | 13:47 |
| timeless_w7ip | similarly, if you ship a <distribution> to me, then it's your job to handle bug reports that are generated as a result of that <distribution> | 13:48 |
| jonnor | in practice, my experience is that Ubuntu, Debian and other distros that default to just-file-it-here is that they never manage with the workload, and that the quality of the work they do degrades because of that | 13:49 |
| * timeless_w7ip shrugs | 13:49 | |
| jonnor | Ubuntu has 50000 bugs in new state for instance. Untriaged bugs... | 13:49 |
| timeless_w7ip | meego should try to do better ;-) | 13:49 |
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| andre__ | jonnor: so Ubuntu's process is broken. That's their problem though, and I don't want the times back when the bug reports by Ubuntu users went upstream by default, as most of them were crap | 13:50 |
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| jonnor | andre__: Meego is a very different distro from Ubuntu though. I do not expect end-users of Meego to file much bugs, I expect the vendors, ISVs et.c. to do that | 13:52 |
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| andre__ | time will tell. | 13:55 |
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| jonnor | if one really wants to fix upstream<->downstream cooperation we'd first need proper distributed bugtracking tools | 14:06 |
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| andre__ | jonnor, if you want to wait for world peace... yes, everything could be more perfect | 14:07 |
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| jonnor | World peace is a tad harder. | 14:10 |
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| jonnor | Launchpad already has some of it basically-working. | 14:10 |
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| andre__ | jonnor: I agree, e.g. when it comes to tracking equivalent tickets in other bug databases Launchpad is pretty perfect :) | 14:28 |
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| Termana | morning | 14:59 |
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| amjad | morning | 15:02 |
| Stskeeps | morn amjad | 15:03 |
| amjad | morn Stskeeps | 15:03 |
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| mikhas | hi rustylynch, does the meego-im-uiserver process run with -use-self-composition on tablet UX already? | 17:26 |
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| timeless_mbp | dawnfoster: are any of the IT people around? | 17:34 |
| * timeless_mbp frowns | 17:34 | |
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| lbt | always | 17:37 |
| timeless_mbp | lbt: i can't reach the jump box | 17:37 |
| lbt | it must be earthshatteringly important | 17:37 |
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| lbt | me neither... we're screwed | 17:38 |
| lbt | oh wait... | 17:38 |
| * lbt has secrit entrance | 17:38 | |
| timeless_mbp | can you raise a useful ticket about the fact that the semi secret entrance is down? | 17:40 |
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| lbt | working on it | 17:43 |
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| timeless_mbp | thanks | 17:45 |
| w00t_ | mikhas: I don't think so | 17:45 |
| w00t_ | at least on my image from some days ago, it's quite slow | 17:45 |
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| mikeleib | timeless_mbp: lbt there is an #osuosl channel, and the guys there are usually responsive | 18:26 |
| timeless_mbp | ok.. | 18:26 |
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| lbt | mikeleib: thanks - looks like a VM problem | 18:27 |
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| lbt | DawnFoster: ping | 19:38 |
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| DawnFoster | hey lbt | 19:38 |
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| lbt | we're talking about marketing and websites | 19:39 |
| lbt | and allocation of ssl IPs | 19:39 |
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| lbt | so we're saying that (www.)meego.com and sf2011.meego.com will have dedicated IPs | 19:40 |
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| lbt | this means they'll be visible to windows XP users using IE | 19:41 |
| thiago | can't count on SNI? | 19:41 |
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| lbt | sorry DawnFoster, also arguing on call :) | 19:43 |
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| lbt | I think www and sf2011 are 'important' and deserve special support | 19:44 |
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| DawnFoster | Are Mike & Adam on that call? | 19:44 |
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| Stskeeps | lbt: anything that has auth.. | 19:45 |
| lbt | yes | 19:45 |
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| DawnFoster | lbt: I'll defer to the 2 of them :) | 19:45 |
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| lbt | OK .. no logins for sf2011 from windows XP | 19:45 |
| * thiago wants that HDTV Blu-Ray microwave washing machine | 19:46 | |
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| ahiemstra | microwave washing machine? | 19:47 |
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| thiago | jim zemlin has just admitted that their idea of what the next breakthrough device may be a little off... | 19:48 |
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| gabrbedd | thiago: before and after? | 19:49 |
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| * thiago is sitting at the collaboration summit and watching the introduction by jim zemlin | 19:50 | |
| andre | thiago: am I the only one associating "breakthrough device" with "crowbar"? | 19:51 |
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| thiago | andre: could be | 19:51 |
| odin_ | hopefully the live stream will have the audio fixed soon, keeps going up/down, like someone is working on it, not audio heard since it started, anyhow football time for me, have fun those in SF :) | 19:51 |
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| gabrbedd | breakthrough device..... "Heeeeeeere's Johnny!!!" | 19:55 |
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| * thiago uses the stickers that dawn gave him to transform his MeeGo 2010 shirt to a MeeGo SF 2011 one | 19:56 | |
| DawnFoster | thiago: nice! | 19:56 |
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| DawnFoster | auke - bonus points for the futurama reference in the last mailing list post :) | 20:09 |
| thiago | Good news everyone | 20:10 |
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| timoph | ? | 20:11 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 20:11 |
| DawnFoster | apparently, it's secret good news :) | 20:11 |
| timoph | yep | 20:11 |
| berndhs | but its for everyone, whether they know it or not | 20:12 |
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| timoph | beats bad news anyway :) | 20:13 |
| berndhs | I for one feel better now | 20:13 |
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| gabrbedd | good news: thiago just saved 15% on his car insurance by switch to GEICO | 20:13 |
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| Corsac | sofar: yeah for bad behaving robots :/ | 20:15 |
| thiago | futurama reference, c'mon guys | 20:15 |
| Corsac | sofar: though in that case it'd have been helpful to still publish the password | 20:15 |
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| thiago | well, futurama was renewed for a new season, wasn't it? | 20:17 |
| berndhs | even without audio, I can tell the bunch of guys sitting there are confident | 20:17 |
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| timoph | we got a delivery to the nude beach planet? | 20:17 |
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| thiago | timoph: it usually goes like "Good news everyone. We have to make a delivery of an armed nuclear bomb to this black hole guarded by a nasty bug race" | 20:18 |
| thiago | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubert_J._Farnsworth#Characterizations | 20:19 |
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| timoph | thiago: yeah | 20:20 |
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| * timoph is a huge futurama fan | 20:20 | |
| auke | DawnFoster: new season coming, I wish I still had comedy central! | 20:21 |
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| thiago | suspending laptop, cya guys later | 20:21 |
| Stskeeps | cya | 20:21 |
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| GAN900 | timoph, only humorless intellectuals aren't. :P | 20:56 |
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| GAN900 | thiago, the movies were mostly terrible. | 20:57 |
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| timoph | :D | 20:59 |
| timoph | I liked the fist movie. especially the beginning with all the fox references | 21:00 |
| timoph | erm. first | 21:00 |
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| rustylynch | mikha, no, we are not doing anything to add -use-self-composition. Also... with all the latest updates from Trunk:Testing i'm not seeing this anymore | 21:13 |
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| Venemo | is ConnMan better than NetworkManager? | 21:24 |
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| auke | fo sho | 21:25 |
| thiago | Venemo: yes | 21:26 |
| thiago | kinda subjective though | 21:26 |
| GAN900 | timoph, they can't help themselves from dipping into politics, though. | 21:26 |
| thiago | I can ask Marcel if you want | 21:26 |
| GAN900 | Which makes the Green episodes insufferable. | 21:26 |
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| Venemo | thiago, I found this, which sheds some bad light on it: http://blogs.gnome.org/dcbw/2009/06/25/networkmanager-and-connman/ | 21:28 |
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| Stskeeps | none of them is good, ICD2++ | 21:28 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 21:28 |
| thiago | oh, right | 21:28 |
| thiago | the same one that requires a reboot of the system every now and then because it will try to associate the (null) interface with my wifi | 21:28 |
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| Stskeeps | probably, yeah ;) | 21:28 |
| thiago | at least that bug is fixed in Harmattan | 21:29 |
| thiago | the problem with NM is that it's a very big mess | 21:29 |
| thiago | connman is designed to be simple | 21:29 |
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| Stskeeps | gabrbedd: http://wiki.meego.com/Core_OS_Program/Kernel_policy | 21:33 |
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| gabrbedd | Newsflash: NM developers say NM is better than everyone else. | 21:36 |
| gabrbedd | Stskeeps: Thanks. I've mostly been reading the 1.1 compliance doc. | 21:36 |
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| gabrbedd | There was also talk about +/- 2 kernel versions on ML's... | 21:37 |
| npm | omg twitter proves useful (on meego netbook home) telling me the audio is working on collab summit | 21:38 |
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| * gabrbedd wonders if we'll get a 1.1 compliance spec some time before 1.2 is released... | 21:41 | |
| CosmoHill | will MeeGo 1.2 have /run ? | 21:41 |
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| arjan\ | CosmoHill: not yet | 21:43 |
| arjan\ | we'll likely do it for 1.3 | 21:43 |
| CosmoHill | cool | 21:43 |
| arjan\ | it's not a big deal per se | 21:43 |
| CosmoHill | when is meego 1.2 coming out, later this month right? | 21:43 |
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| arjan\ | we're slightly behind; probably a few weeks delayed | 21:46 |
| npm | gabrbedd: gleixner is talking about RT right now.... | 21:46 |
| gabrbedd | CosmoHill: What is /run ? | 21:46 |
| arjan\ | gabrbedd: move /var/run to /run so that /var is more read only | 21:47 |
| gabrbedd | npm: argh! Wish I could watch! | 21:47 |
| npm | i'm watching right now | 21:47 |
| CosmoHill | gabrbedd: http://lwn.net/Articles/436012/ | 21:47 |
| gabrbedd | arjan\: Thanks! | 21:47 |
| npm | via internet | 21:47 |
| gabrbedd | npm: long story. I'll have to catch the talk later. | 21:48 |
| Stskeeps | arjan\: would be good to update release plans then, didn't know we had postponed release | 21:48 |
| arjan\ | it's not very clear yet | 21:48 |
| npm | ok... sorry. | 21:48 |
| Stskeeps | alright | 21:48 |
| arjan\ | Stskeeps: this is me looking at current stability/reality | 21:48 |
| arjan\ | if things go much faster than I think in the next 3 weeks... | 21:48 |
| Stskeeps | what level is hurting, UX, hardware adaptations, core? | 21:49 |
| arjan\ | core is relatively ok; | 21:50 |
| arjan\ | but things like qtmobility and such are a bit behind | 21:50 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 21:50 |
| arjan\ | we cut out some problem areas with the arch announcements but we can't cut qtmobility to save time ;-) | 21:50 |
| npm | arjan\: have any releases been shipped or tested w/ connman 0.72... not sure if core is ok | 21:51 |
| arjan\ | and I'm sure the UX guys can use a handful of weeks | 21:51 |
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| arjan\ | we're at 0.69 right now | 21:52 |
| npm | my latest update allows me to apply less voodoo to keep the network stable, but i see no releases with it shipping.... | 21:52 |
| arjan\ | and will not move forward if that gives instability | 21:52 |
| npm | and even then, 0.72 just gives a whole new set of bugs that are less severe | 21:52 |
| Stskeeps | i wouldn't so much mind a delay if that means that there's a compliance document out for 1.2 at release | 21:53 |
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| Stskeeps | of course, that might be a long delay then ;) | 21:54 |
| npm | <arjan\> we're at 0.69 right now ==> "core is not ok" | 21:54 |
| arjan\ | why is 0.69 not ok ;) | 21:55 |
| Stskeeps | npm: BMC#'s? | 21:55 |
| arjan\ | and if connman is the only core problem I'll cheer. | 21:55 |
| npm | static IP doesn't work | 21:55 |
| arjan\ | I have so many static IPs on my phone or tablet ;-) | 21:55 |
| arjan\ | sure I am not saying there are no bugs | 21:55 |
| arjan\ | but if that is the worst bug in the core.... I'll take it any day. | 21:55 |
| npm | well that's the issue. i want static ip on my netbook at home | 21:55 |
| arjan\ | we have 3 weeks ;-) | 21:56 |
| npm | and it's never tested, so issues persist | 21:56 |
| Stskeeps | if it's not tested, poke the QA people | 21:56 |
| npm | here i'll give some bmc's | 21:56 |
| Stskeeps | they're not doing their job then | 21:56 |
| npm | one sec | 21:56 |
| gabrbedd | arjan\: npm I'll take a non-crashing mcompositor over static IP's... just my preference. :-p | 21:56 |
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| npm | https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=9007 https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=7529 https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=11083 https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=5202 https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13653 https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13780 https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13778 | 21:58 |
| MeeGoBot | Bug 9007 nor, High, ---, martin.xu, NEED, [REG]network notification pop up about every 5 minutes | 21:58 |
| MeeGoBot | Bug 7529 nor, High, 1.1, ying.an.deng, RELE FIXED, [REG]network notification pop up about every 5 minutes | 21:58 |
| MeeGoBot | Bug 11083 maj, Medium, ---, jimmy.huang, NEW, [REG] "Ethernet/Wifi is not available" in Control Panel | 21:59 |
| MeeGoBot | Bug 5202 enh, Low, ---, martin.xu, ASSI, Connman deletes the (2nd) static IP while renewing DHCP lease | 21:59 |
| MeeGoBot | Bug 13653 nor, Medium, 1.3, sameo, ASSI, ConnMan applet disconnect does not disconnect ipv6 | 21:59 |
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| npm | https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13778#c34 indicates connman > 0.71 fixes .... but still keep testing same old code and bugs | 22:00 |
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| npm | one more: https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14822 | 22:01 |
| MeeGoBot | Bug 14822 nor, Medium, ---, martin.xu, ASSI, [REG]Wifi list will refresh in few minutes | 22:01 |
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| berndhs | gabrbedd: I don't think the people fixing connman are the same ones who work on mcompositor | 22:05 |
| * timeless_w7ip sure hopes not | 22:07 | |
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| gabrbedd | berndhs: You never know. :-) | 22:10 |
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| gabrbedd | Stskeeps: Do you know if there have been any advances on the mdecorator thing in the past week? (It's been about that long since sync'ing with a daily build) | 22:13 |
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| Stskeeps | gabrbedd: not the right person to ask about that.. but let me look | 22:14 |
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| gabrbedd | Stskeeps: I just figured you'd know since you're also in the middle of the Tablet/Handset confusion. | 22:14 |
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| Stskeeps | gabrbedd: well, technically nothing stops you from just removing the decorator_removal.patch | 22:15 |
| Stskeeps | there's no comments so i can't see the exact reasons for ripping it out even of mcompositor support | 22:15 |
| Stskeeps | i am almost willing to be it has something to deal with the double window issue, that it happens when mdecorator isn't running.. | 22:16 |
| Stskeeps | be=bet | 22:16 |
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| gabrbedd | Stskeeps: Thanks. Double-window issue? | 22:18 |
| Stskeeps | bug 8268 | 22:18 |
| MeeGoBot | Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=8268 nor, High, ---, ext-alexandr.ivanov, REOP, Double thumbnail windows display when launching the xterm. | 22:18 |
| Stskeeps | as in, it actually doesn't fullscreen things.. | 22:18 |
| Stskeeps | mcompositor had a bit of a fail with "oh, we need to run qt apps? who wants to do that anyway?" | 22:19 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 22:19 |
| gabrbedd | Stskeeps: ok... yeah, I think that patch is causing that issue. | 22:20 |
| Stskeeps | or the code it's removing is the cause :) | 22:21 |
| gabrbedd | Well, I get that issue with the Tablet UX and the Handset UX (after Tablet UX was released) | 22:22 |
| gabrbedd | But the day before... I was getting decorators and fullscreen and everything I wanted. :-) | 22:22 |
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| gabrbedd | DawnFoster: Happy birthday! :-) | 23:53 |
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| DawnFoster | gabrbedd: thanks! | 23:53 |
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| w00t_ | no such thing as too much chocolate, I always say... | 23:55 |
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