IRC log of #meego for Wednesday, 2011-04-06

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*** ChanServ changes topic to "channel for general discussions about MeeGo | MeeGo project info: http://meego.com/ | This channel is logged at http://mg.pov.lt/meego-irclog/ | IRC guidelines and more info: http://bit.ly/cYT2Hs/ | For 'bar' talk (rumours, gossip, etc), please go to #meego-bar"00:22
mikhas_rustylynch, filed bug 15336 which has patches to completely disable reaction maps for keyboard00:24
MeeGoBotBug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15336 nor, Undecided, ---, x2rich, NEW, Disable reaction maps for meegotouch-inputmethodkeyboard00:24
mikhas_but someone else needs to put the qmake change into the spec file00:24
mikhas_happy testing ;-)00:24
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mikhas_I hope that one or the other solution overcomes the integration barrier00:25
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rustylynchok00:30
rustylynchbtw... there was a qt update that triggered the universe to rebuild00:30
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w00t_hooray, Qt updates00:31
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w00t_:-)00:31
rustylynchlooks like it was just a small patch00:31
rustylynchunlike the qt 4.7.2 that ruined my week00:31
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w00t_what would life be if everything just worked? ;)00:32
rustylynchwell... at least now i finally have my code public, so i don't have to just sit and take it when a meego update breaks me00:33
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mikhas_rustylynch, please inform araujo if one of the workarounds proves to be successful - he usually integrates MeeGo Input Methods stuff. me goes now00:44
rustylynchmikhas_: ok00:45
gabrbeddStskeeps: Have you heard anything new regarding Handset UX vs. Tablet UX?00:46
* gabrbedd is still confused on the direction....00:46
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rustylynchso far the reactionmaps patch is working01:15
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rustylyncharaujo: mikhas_'s fix seems to be working... on my 20th reboot and haven't crashed yet01:26
* rustylynch makes a note in the bug report01:26
rustylyncharaujo: should i sr my home:rusty/meegotouch-feedbackreactionmaps to some place?01:30
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rustylyncharaujo, mikhas_, i just sr'ed the crasher workaround into devel:qt-mtf01:38
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timeless_w7ipcould someone please remind dneary that he owes me a ping :)02:03
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gabrbedddmeary: timeless_w7ip sez you owe him a ping.  :-P02:39
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MrBIOSanybody around?03:09
gabrbeddno03:10
gabrbedd:-p03:10
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MrBIOSis mobilin fully dead? Why doesn't the website say it's dead?03:17
MrBIOSmoblin03:17
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berndhsdunno, maybe ask in #moblin03:18
MrBIOSnobody alive in thgere03:18
gabrbeddMrBIOS: Yes, it's dead.03:19
MrBIOSokay, well, the website doesn't say that03:19
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gabrbeddThere might be some maint. things happen -- but it's dead.03:19
MrBIOSand the login/registration system is completely broken03:19
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gabrbeddFor example, the top 3 news items on front page talk about the transfer to MeeGo03:20
gabrbeddAnd their last release was in 200903:20
MrBIOSyes, I see it03:20
gabrbeddAll their web pages, including bugzilla, also point to MeeGo.03:21
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gabrbeddSo, unlike Maemo... Moblin is really dead.03:22
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MrBIOSI read something on the moblin site about the core bits being based atop Fedora (or at least utilizing rpm package format) Is that still the case?03:23
MrBIOS(with MeeGo)03:23
berndhsmeego is its own distro03:24
berndhsnot on top of anything03:24
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gabrbeddMrBIOS: Yeah, what berndhs said!03:27
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gabrbeddIt's still RPM-based... but these days the infrastructure bears more resemblance to OpenSuSe than Fedora.03:27
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gabrbeddHowever, it does not use /any/ packages from /any/ other distro.03:28
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MrBIOSgabrbedd, got it, thanks. Are things like libc atom-optimized?03:41
MrBIOSglibc03:41
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gabrbeddMrBIOS: As far as compiler flags... they're /supposed/ to be.  However, there was a lot of push-back about that.03:42
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MrBIOSwhich version of compiler is in use?03:42
gabrbeddMrBIOS: So, things like glibc might /not/ be... in order for devs to be able to compile packages on their non-SSSE3 host machine.03:42
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gabrbeddgcc 4.4, I think.  Look in repo.meego.org to verify.03:43
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MrBIOS4.4? Atom-specific GCC optimizations weren't introduced  until 4.5.1 AFAIK03:43
thiagowe're using 4.503:43
thiagosince 1.1 I think03:44
MrBIOSgot it, and is it clear whether or not atom-specific optimization flags are being used in 1.1?03:44
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thiagoit's clear: code is compiled with SSSE303:45
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thiagowhether the compiler makes use of them or not, that's a different thing03:45
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MrBIOSare the flags used documented somewhere? In a build script in svn/git, by chance?03:45
thiagoecho $CFLAGS03:45
thiagoso it's somewhere in /etc (probably /etc/profile)03:45
MrBIOSI don't have an install handy03:46
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w00t_OBS can probably tell you03:46
w00t_I have no idea how to get OBS to tell you though03:46
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gabrbeddMrBIOS: OBS (which builds all official packages) is definately setting the flags.03:50
gabrbeddMrBIOS: You can verify by reviewing the build logs at build.meego.com03:50
MrBIOScool, thanks03:50
gabrbeddMrBIOS: On an actual installation... it's not quite so clear that the flag is getting set properly.03:51
gabrbeddFor my packages, I manually set it in /etc/rpmrc or something.03:51
MrBIOSthanks, this helps clarify things for me: http://build.meego.com/package/files?package=glibc&project=MeeGo%3A1.1%3ACore03:53
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rustylynchMrBIOS: i think you might rather look at Trunk unless you have a good reason to look at 1.1: http://build.meego.com/package/files?package=glibc&project=Trunk03:56
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rustylynchnot that i know what's different in our glibc package03:57
thiagoprobably just the compiler flags03:58
thiagothough I do remember that glibc has some compile-time options for assembly code03:58
thiagoI don't remember if it does runtime-detection for things like memcpy03:58
gabrbeddMrBios: Here's the latest glibc build log http://build.meego.com/package/rawlog?arch=i586&package=glibc&project=Trunk&repository=standard03:59
gabrbedd+ CFLAGS='-O2 -g -pipe -Wall -Wp,-D_FORTIFY_SOURCE=2 -fexceptions -fstack-protector --param=ssp-buffer-size=4 -Wformat -Wformat-security -m32 -march=core2 -mssse3  -mtune=atom -mfpmath=sse -fasynchronous-unwind-tables -fno-omit-frame-pointer'04:00
gabrbedd+ export CFLAGS04:00
MrBIOShas anybody experimented with creating 64 bit x86 builds?04:01
thiago-fexceptions for C?04:01
MrBIOSI'm fine with trunk04:02
MrBIOSare there any nightly core image builds?04:02
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gabrbeddthiago: TFM for -fexceptions... However, you may need04:06
gabrbedd           to enable this option when compiling C code that needs to interoperate properly with exception04:06
gabrbedd           handlers written in C++.04:06
gabrbeddMrBIOS: I haven't heard of anyone doing 64 bit builds, and there are no plans to do it with MeeGo.04:07
MrBIOS*nod*04:07
MrBIOSI figured, we may just do them in-house :)04:07
gabrbeddMrBIOS: Although... I've been curious to try a 64-bit build on an atom... so if you do it, tell people about it. :-)04:07
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MrBIOSI will, I work for a company that makes a 256-node Atom N570-based server appliance, which is x86_64 capable04:09
gabrbeddMrBIOS: Interesting!  What's the advantage of using Atom over something like an i-series?04:10
MrBIOSperformance/watt, mostly04:10
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w00t_and now, for some late night comedic relief: http://lolpics.se/13696-with-her-spoon04:12
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user__heyo05:29
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iekkumorning06:20
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wmarone_grr hate android's custom build system07:15
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Stskeepsmorn wassupnari07:54
wassupnarioh, hi :)07:54
Stskeepshow is it going?07:55
wassupnarigood good, how are you?07:55
wassupnarii'm currently working om meego multi-touch on 1.1.99 tablet UI07:55
wassupnaridoes meego support multi-touch on 1.1.99 version?07:56
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Stskeepsright, let me summarize the situation there. Provided you have a kernel driver that speaks the multitouch protocol in kernel to xorg-x11-drv-mtev, then Qt should be able to pick it up07:57
Stskeepsproblem is just that Qt on ARM is temporarily disabling xinput2 because we had a problem with single touch07:57
Stskeepsthis is getting fixed still, needed coordination since the problem existed on Intel too07:57
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gabrbeddwassupnari: What hardware are you using?07:58
wassupnariNVIDIA, tegra chip, we using.07:58
Stskeepswassupnari: http://download.meego.com/live/devel:/qt-mtf:/qt-xi2/Trunk/ is Qt packages that has xinput2 enabled07:58
wassupnarii'm pretty confused about the architecture of Qt and xinput2.07:59
Stskeepsright07:59
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Stskeepsthe chain goes along the lines of: kernel driver -> xorg-x11-drv-mtev -> xorg (xinput2) -> qt08:00
gabrbeddwassupnari: Good!  That means you're paying attention. :-)08:00
gabrbeddBTW, is xorg-x11-drv-mtev is an interrim solution08:01
Stskeepsgabrbedd: thiago sent a mail long ago on the direction.. things aren't perfect in meego 1.2 but at least they're working :P08:01
Stskeepsthere was something about xorg release schedules08:01
wassupnariif you see the architecture here : http://meego.com/developers/meego-architecture/meego-architecture-layer-view08:01
gabrbeddYeah... the version of Xorg we use doesn't officially have XInput2...08:02
wassupnariQt which you mentioned is on core OS or application framework?08:02
gabrbeddIt's being added in the /next/ version of Xorg.08:02
Stskeepswassupnari: qt's part of the core OS.. the architecture drawings are currently not very informative :)08:02
gabrbeddHowever... MeeGo has added in the XInput2 protocol to get MT off the ground.08:02
wassupnariokay08:02
wassupnariso, the Qt in Core OS is depending on the CPU architecture, am i right?08:03
gabrbeddwassupnari: Huh?08:04
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Stskeepswassupnari: well, everything is compiled for a cpu architecture :) anyway, you need to get the package 'xorg-x11-utils-xinput'08:05
Stskeepsand get 'xinput test-xi2' working08:05
Stskeepswhen that seems to give proper output from your touchscreen, it should be possible to get MT in Qt too08:05
wassupnariokay, i'll try it08:05
Stskeepsand verify that the mtev xorg driver is in use08:06
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gabrbeddwassupnari: FYI, to enable MT for my touch screen I had to...08:07
gabrbedd1) Get the kernel driver.  In my case I had to backport it from Linus's branch08:07
gabrbedd2) Install xorg-x11-drv-mtev08:08
gabrbedd3) Add a a file in /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/ to map my device to the mtev driver08:08
gabrbeddThere's probably a file with a name like /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/60-cando-mtev.conf that you can use as an example.08:09
wassupnarii already done 1,2,3. :) thax though08:10
Stskeepswassupnari: we hope to have qt built for xinput2 by default by next weekly image08:12
Stskeeps(for ARM)08:12
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Stskeepswe're basically waiting for xorg-x11-drv-evdev to be approved for Trunk:Testing and a kernel change on Intel's IVI stuff to go in, so we don't break anything08:14
wassupnariokay, i see. hm.. can i ask a question?08:16
Stskeepsalways08:16
wassupnaribefore i install the newly released Qt package, I had tested something..08:16
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wassupnariif i run the "xinput test" with evdev driver, and touch the screen08:17
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wassupnarithere are press/release and touch coordinates are shown,08:17
wassupnaribut if i run the xinput test with mtev driver, then touch coordinates are shown, but press/release messages aren't08:18
wassupnariis that common result? or i have some problem with device driver and xorg-mtev driver?08:19
Stskeepsi think that's how it's supposed to work, but i don't have a mtev device nearby08:19
wassupnarithan means you don't have touch device for testing the mtev driver?08:20
Stskeepsi have one, but i'm in denmark right now ;)08:20
Stskeepsso don't have it along08:20
wassupnarioh, i see08:20
wassupnariand do you know what the 'multipointtouchplugin' is related to?08:22
Stskeepsobsolete old thing, now integrated into qt08:22
wassupnariokay, that make me clear :)08:23
gabrbeddI've got one... I can check.08:31
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gabrbeddwassupnari: running `xinput test-xi2` ...08:45
gabrbeddI see some button stuff...08:46
gabrbeddBut the big deal is that valuators: shows 5 parameters for each finger that is touching the screen.08:46
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wassupnarigabrbedd : can you see the press/release event too?08:47
gabrbeddYou mean with `xinput test  11` ?? Yes.08:48
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gabrbeddAnd with 5 parameters per finger.08:48
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wassupnariare you testing with evdev or mtev?08:49
gabrbeddmtev08:49
gabrbeddCando 10.1 on Ideapad08:49
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wassupnaricould you share that kernel driver source code? :)08:50
wassupnariplease? :)08:50
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gabrbeddWhat touchscreen device do you have?08:52
gabrbeddThe driver I have isn't for Cando... it's for a "Hanvon 10.1"08:52
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wassupnarii have atmel_maxtouch and i'm just trying to compare with mine :)08:53
gabrbeddAnyway, the hid-multitouch driver was posted here http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-kernel/2011-March/002344.html08:53
Stskeepswassupnari: i think we have a mtev enabled atmel_maxtouch in one of the meego kernels08:54
gabrbeddThat's the "title page" -- first of 9 messages08:54
wassupnariokay,08:54
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gabrbeddgood night guys... :-)08:55
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gabrbeddBTW, Stskeeps -- you rock.  :-)08:56
wassupnariStskeeps : do you know where is it?08:56
wassupnarigabrbedd : good night!08:56
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wassupnarihttp://www.mail-archive.com/meego-kernel@lists.meego.com/msg00639.html this one?09:00
Stskeepsyeah, i think so09:01
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djszapiIs the "hl" version quite different from other "l" version ?09:08
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bef0rdits hard09:09
djszapiCouldn't the compilar flags just be implemented also in the "l" version ?09:09
djszapiinstead of just the "hl" version ?09:09
djszapi* compiler *just in the "hl" verison09:09
djszapi* version, ahh typos.09:09
djszapidevelopers would not be forced to use the "hl" only.09:09
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bef0rdnot sure what you are asking09:10
bef0rdxD09:10
bef0rdbut yes, the 'l' is soft fp, hl, is hardfp09:10
bef0rdrecompiled everything, also some stuff didnt work with just recompiling,09:10
bef0rdStskeeps had to patch a lot of stuff, there are reports about it on the mail list I believe, or there was a meego bug with the progress09:11
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djszapibef0rd: :)09:13
djszapiI am too vague this morning :p09:13
djszapiCXXFLAGS is set properly in the "hl" version, the most important part for me is the target.09:13
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djszapibef0rd: but I would like to have that feature if it is possible with the "l" image, not sure it is possible in the soft image.09:13
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djszapinot sure what the obstacle is.09:14
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djszapibef0rd: that way I could avoid a bugreport against the "hl" :)09:14
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djszapiStskeeps: uhh09:23
djszapiI cannot get any call, nor even with the opened dialer.09:23
djszapiit worked last week :-S09:23
djszapiI thought it was going to be better :o09:23
djszapinot worse.09:23
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jukkaeklundI find it interesting that there are no release blockers for MeeGo 1.211:03
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timeless_w7ipjukkaeklund: you'd rather 100?11:11
jukkaeklundtimeless_w7ip: it looks like there are no blockers defined, so there can't be any number. this is worrying11:12
jukkaeklundie. what is the metric that defines when MeeGo 1.2 is releasable?11:12
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timeless_w7ipfor a time based release11:14
timeless_w7ipi'd hope it's always releasable :)11:14
jukkaeklundthere are some proposals though: https://bugs.meego.com/buglist.cgi?field0-0-0=flagtypes.name&query_format=advanced&type0-0-0=substring&value0-0-0=MeeGo_Release_Blocker11:14
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fim_fhi everyone11:53
iekkuhi11:53
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djszapiStskeeps: can you tell me briefly why cannot the CXXFALGS be implemented in the soft image and whether there is any drawback of using the hard image for application development ?12:15
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saidinesh5pohly: i m caught up with exams the whole of this week, so will test out the kwallet thing in GNOME this weekend.. basically last  when i had gnome it was like when in gnome12:26
saidinesh5and when compiled with both kwallet and gnome-keyring12:26
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saidinesh5it will choose gnome-keyring12:26
saidinesh5if in kde, it chose kwallet12:27
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saidinesh5actually when in kde , it goes for kwallet , anywhere else gnome-keyring12:27
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pohlysaidinesh5: I'd like to know whether the corresponding issue shall be considered resolved before reviewing the actual code. Think of it as setting the right expectations :-)12:28
pohlyFrom what you said, it looks like it is resolved.12:28
saidinesh5well but from what is requested over there12:28
saidinesh5a command line argument12:28
CosmoHillsaidinesh5: best of luck with the exams12:28
saidinesh5i didnt think of that12:28
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saidinesh5thanks CosmoHill :)12:28
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pohlyAgreed, not all of it. But the automatism should be good enough in practice for SyncEvolution 1.2.12:29
CosmoHillI have 2 at the end of may / start of june12:29
saidinesh5hmm.. sure :)12:29
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saidinesh5and then, also I cannot verify the working of kde-notes (kjots syncing) because Ovi apparently gives a Local error with syncevo still12:30
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saidinesh5and mobical doesn't seem to accept syncevo anymore12:30
saidinesh5i might have lost the password though12:30
saidinesh5CosmoHill: start of june? well I ll give you your good luck then :)12:32
CosmoHillcan I have a bit up front to use on my coursework? :p12:32
saidinesh5hehe, sure, good luck  :)12:32
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saidinesh5pohly: another quick question, we have openobex as one of our dependancies right? and when i checked the openobex project, it has support for USB too.. so why doesn't syncevo support usb?12:33
CosmoHillmerci12:34
saidinesh5Oh , i should have given bon chance then :P12:34
saidinesh5:)12:34
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pohlysaidinesh5: because we don't have code which detects USB devices, initializes communication, etc. Feel free to add it ;-}12:36
pohlyOBEX setup is different for USB and Bluetooth.12:36
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saidinesh5Ahh... obextransportagent.h and cpp ?12:38
timeless_w7ipgrr12:40
timeless_w7ipanyone from it around?12:40
timeless_w7ipmy box seems to be missing network connectivity :(12:40
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CosmoHilltimeless_w7ip: wifi or ethernet?12:45
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timeless_w7ipcosmohill: OSU hosted service12:47
timeless_w7ipi presume it doesn't have wifi :)12:47
timeless_w7ipit=information technology, not Italy :)12:48
CosmoHillI was gonna make a joke about it being IT and not it12:48
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* timeless_w7ip isn't really up for it12:50
* CosmoHill wonders if that was a pun12:50
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mikhasheya, I cannot upload a PDF to the MeeGo wiki12:54
mikhasheh, disabling JavaScript did the trick12:57
timeless_w7iplol12:57
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* timeless_w7ip pokes andre__13:28
timeless_w7ipandre__: so, i think someone needs to write up something for meegons explaining how to send bugs to upstream13:28
andre__timeless_w7ip, file a bug about community processes and assign it to me13:29
timeless_w7ipbecause so far the bugs which belong upstream are getting prioritized as "low" and i expect them to be lost+forgotten13:29
timeless_w7ipok13:29
andre__I've seen some bad examples too when it came to translations (e.g. banshee)13:29
timeless_w7ipouch13:29
timeless_w7ipandre__: i'm basically filling bugs.meego w/ a bunch of bugs so people can learn how to get this right13:30
timeless_w7ipbut... someone will have to hold people's hands13:30
andre__CC me13:30
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timeless_w7ipandre__: there are 36 bugs13:38
timeless_w7ipand someone got "Clever" and removed change several bugs at once13:38
timeless_w7ipi'm not going to manually cc you to 36 bugs :(13:38
andre__timeless_w7ip, then send me the buglist.cgi for them13:39
timeless_w7ipok13:39
timeless_w7iphttps://bugs.meego.com/buglist.cgi?resolution=---&classification=MeeGo%20Platform&reporter=timeless@gmail.com13:39
timeless_w7ip=> andre__ :)13:40
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andre__timeless_w7ip, err, they are *all* meant for upstream?13:40
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timeless_w7ipwell, a couple migt not be13:41
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timeless_w7ips/gt/ght/13:41
infobottimeless_w7ip meant: well, a couple might not be13:41
timeless_w7ipandre__: my hope is that we can teach QA/Maintainers how to work w/ upstream13:41
timeless_w7ipi'm not asking *you* to send them to upstream13:41
andre__I see...13:41
jonnorwhy would you file bugs about upstream issues in a distro, and not just file them upstream13:41
timeless_w7ipbut if we're a downstream, then we need to be able to report bugs upstream when we get them13:41
andre__jonnor: for trackability of the fix in downstream?13:42
andre__like when the fix was shipped in the distro according to TM and such13:42
timeless_w7ipjonnor: note that debian and ubuntu also track bugs as a downstream13:42
timeless_w7ipi believe redhat does too13:42
timeless_w7ipthis is standard behavior for a "proper distro"13:42
andre__I agree13:42
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jonnorandre__: if it is important enough, sure, create a tracking bug for it13:43
jonnorbut in my opinion, you do that after you've files the bug upstream13:43
jonnorin the cases where you know its an upstream issue13:43
andre__jonnor: if you *know* that it's an upstream issue, maybe.13:43
andre__ah. heh :)13:43
timeless_w7ipjonnor: users can't be expected to have any idea where upstream is13:43
timeless_w7ipor how to know that it is indeed coming from upstream13:43
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andre__well, code level issues are not really user land I'd say13:43
timeless_w7ipremember, part of being a distro is making an absolute mess of upstream13:44
jonnorit should be about helping upstream13:44
timeless_w7ipright, and part of helping upstream is for downstream maintainers to be in the habit of working with upstream13:44
timeless_w7ipincluding reporting bugs to it and sending patches13:44
jonnorI don't see how overloading maintainers with bugs that you know are upstream issues is a good approach for that13:45
timeless_w7ipi don't think 3 bugs for a maintainer is "overloading"13:45
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timeless_w7ipand if a maintainer is maintaining 100 packages, he's doing something wrong and asking for trouble13:46
timeless_w7ipand it's better for him to understand that *early*13:46
timeless_w7ipinstead of for the problem to be discovered later13:46
* timeless_w7ip simulates average load13:46
timeless_w7ipand note, that i really am not in a position to know if a bug exists in upstream13:47
timeless_w7ipand i certainly have no idea where upstream is13:47
timeless_w7ipif you ship it, you're responsible for it <period>13:47
timeless_w7ipif you ship a binary to me, then under most open source licenses, it's <your> job to offer the sources to me, not your upstream13:47
timeless_w7ipsimilarly, if you ship a <distribution> to me, then it's your job to handle bug reports that are generated as a result of that <distribution>13:48
jonnorin practice, my experience is that Ubuntu, Debian and other distros that default to just-file-it-here is that they never manage with the workload, and that the quality of the work they do degrades because of that13:49
* timeless_w7ip shrugs13:49
jonnorUbuntu has 50000 bugs in new state for instance. Untriaged bugs...13:49
timeless_w7ipmeego should try to do better ;-)13:49
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andre__jonnor: so Ubuntu's process is broken. That's their problem though, and I don't want the times back when the bug reports by Ubuntu users went upstream by default, as most of them were crap13:50
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jonnorandre__: Meego is a very different distro from Ubuntu though. I do not expect end-users of Meego to file much bugs, I expect the vendors, ISVs et.c. to do that13:52
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andre__time will tell.13:55
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jonnorif one really wants to fix upstream<->downstream cooperation we'd first need proper distributed bugtracking tools14:06
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andre__jonnor, if you want to wait for world peace... yes, everything could be more perfect14:07
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jonnorWorld peace is a tad harder.14:10
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jonnorLaunchpad already has some of it basically-working.14:10
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andre__jonnor: I agree, e.g. when it comes to tracking equivalent tickets in other bug databases Launchpad is pretty perfect :)14:28
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Termanamorning14:59
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amjadmorning15:02
Stskeepsmorn amjad15:03
amjadmorn Stskeeps15:03
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mikhashi rustylynch, does the meego-im-uiserver process run with -use-self-composition on tablet UX already?17:26
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timeless_mbpdawnfoster: are any of the IT people around?17:34
* timeless_mbp frowns17:34
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lbtalways17:37
timeless_mbplbt: i can't reach the jump box17:37
lbtit must be earthshatteringly important17:37
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lbtme neither... we're screwed17:38
lbtoh wait...17:38
* lbt has secrit entrance17:38
timeless_mbpcan you raise a useful ticket about the fact that the semi secret entrance is down?17:40
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lbtworking on it17:43
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timeless_mbpthanks17:45
w00t_mikhas: I don't think so17:45
w00t_at least on my image from some days ago, it's quite slow17:45
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mikeleibtimeless_mbp: lbt there is an #osuosl channel, and the guys there are usually responsive18:26
timeless_mbpok..18:26
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lbtmikeleib: thanks - looks like a VM problem18:27
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lbtDawnFoster: ping19:38
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DawnFosterhey lbt19:38
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lbtwe're talking about marketing and websites19:39
lbtand allocation of ssl IPs19:39
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lbtso we're saying that (www.)meego.com and sf2011.meego.com will have dedicated IPs19:40
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lbtthis means they'll be visible to windows XP users using IE19:41
thiagocan't count on SNI?19:41
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lbtsorry DawnFoster, also arguing on call :)19:43
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lbtI think www and sf2011 are 'important' and deserve special support19:44
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DawnFosterAre Mike & Adam on that call?19:44
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Stskeepslbt: anything that has auth..19:45
lbtyes19:45
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DawnFosterlbt: I'll defer to the 2 of them :)19:45
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lbtOK .. no logins for sf2011 from windows XP19:45
* thiago wants that HDTV Blu-Ray microwave washing machine19:46
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ahiemstramicrowave washing machine?19:47
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thiagojim zemlin has just admitted that their idea of what the next breakthrough device may be a little off...19:48
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gabrbeddthiago: before and after?19:49
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* thiago is sitting at the collaboration summit and watching the introduction by jim zemlin19:50
andrethiago: am I the only one associating "breakthrough device" with "crowbar"?19:51
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thiagoandre: could be19:51
odin_hopefully the live stream will have the audio fixed soon, keeps going up/down, like someone is working on it, not audio heard since it started, anyhow football time for me, have fun those in SF :)19:51
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gabrbeddbreakthrough device..... "Heeeeeeere's Johnny!!!"19:55
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* thiago uses the stickers that dawn gave him to transform his MeeGo 2010 shirt to a MeeGo SF 2011 one19:56
DawnFosterthiago: nice!19:56
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DawnFosterauke - bonus points for the futurama reference in the last mailing list post :)20:09
thiagoGood news everyone20:10
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timoph?20:11
Stskeeps:P20:11
DawnFosterapparently, it's secret good news :)20:11
timophyep20:11
berndhsbut its for everyone, whether they know it or not20:12
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timophbeats bad news anyway :)20:13
berndhsI for one feel better now20:13
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gabrbeddgood news:  thiago just saved 15% on his car insurance by switch to GEICO20:13
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Corsacsofar: yeah for bad behaving robots :/20:15
thiagofuturama reference, c'mon guys20:15
Corsacsofar: though in that case it'd have been helpful to still publish the password20:15
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thiagowell, futurama was renewed for a new season, wasn't it?20:17
berndhseven without audio, I can tell the bunch of guys sitting there are confident20:17
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timophwe got a delivery to the nude beach planet?20:17
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thiagotimoph: it usually goes like "Good news everyone. We have to make a delivery of an armed nuclear bomb to this black hole guarded by a nasty bug race"20:18
thiagohttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubert_J._Farnsworth#Characterizations20:19
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timophthiago: yeah20:20
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* timoph is a huge futurama fan20:20
aukeDawnFoster: new season coming, I wish I still had comedy central!20:21
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thiagosuspending laptop, cya guys later20:21
Stskeepscya20:21
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GAN900timoph, only humorless intellectuals aren't. :P20:56
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GAN900thiago, the movies were mostly terrible.20:57
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timoph:D20:59
timophI liked the fist movie. especially the beginning with all the fox references21:00
timopherm. first21:00
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rustylynchmikha, no, we are not doing anything to add -use-self-composition.  Also... with all the latest updates from Trunk:Testing i'm not seeing this anymore21:13
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Venemois ConnMan better than NetworkManager?21:24
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aukefo sho21:25
thiagoVenemo: yes21:26
thiagokinda subjective though21:26
GAN900timoph, they can't help themselves from dipping into politics, though.21:26
thiagoI can ask Marcel if you want21:26
GAN900Which makes the Green episodes insufferable.21:26
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Venemothiago, I found this, which sheds some bad light on it: http://blogs.gnome.org/dcbw/2009/06/25/networkmanager-and-connman/21:28
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Stskeepsnone of them is good, ICD2++21:28
Stskeeps:P21:28
thiagooh, right21:28
thiagothe same one that requires a reboot of the system every now and then because it will try to associate the (null) interface with my wifi21:28
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Stskeepsprobably, yeah ;)21:28
thiagoat least that bug is fixed in Harmattan21:29
thiagothe problem with NM is that it's a very big mess21:29
thiagoconnman is designed to be simple21:29
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Stskeepsgabrbedd: http://wiki.meego.com/Core_OS_Program/Kernel_policy21:33
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gabrbeddNewsflash:  NM developers say NM is better than everyone else.21:36
gabrbeddStskeeps: Thanks.  I've mostly been reading the 1.1 compliance doc.21:36
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gabrbeddThere was also talk about +/- 2 kernel versions on ML's...21:37
npmomg twitter proves useful (on meego netbook home) telling me the audio is working on collab summit21:38
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* gabrbedd wonders if we'll get a 1.1 compliance spec some time before 1.2 is released...21:41
CosmoHillwill MeeGo 1.2 have /run ?21:41
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arjan\CosmoHill: not yet21:43
arjan\we'll likely do it for 1.321:43
CosmoHillcool21:43
arjan\it's not a big deal per se21:43
CosmoHillwhen is meego 1.2 coming out, later this month right?21:43
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arjan\we're slightly behind; probably a few weeks delayed21:46
npmgabrbedd: gleixner is talking about RT right now....21:46
gabrbeddCosmoHill: What is /run ?21:46
arjan\gabrbedd: move /var/run to /run so that /var is more read only21:47
gabrbeddnpm: argh!  Wish I could watch!21:47
npmi'm watching right now21:47
CosmoHillgabrbedd: http://lwn.net/Articles/436012/21:47
gabrbeddarjan\: Thanks!21:47
npmvia internet21:47
gabrbeddnpm: long story.  I'll have to catch the talk later.21:48
Stskeepsarjan\: would be good to update release plans then, didn't know we had postponed release21:48
arjan\it's not very clear yet21:48
npmok... sorry.21:48
Stskeepsalright21:48
arjan\Stskeeps: this is me looking at current stability/reality21:48
arjan\if things go much faster than I think in the next 3 weeks...21:48
Stskeepswhat level is hurting, UX, hardware adaptations, core?21:49
arjan\core is relatively ok;21:50
arjan\but things like qtmobility and such are a bit behind21:50
Stskeeps:nod:21:50
arjan\we cut out some problem areas with the arch announcements but we can't cut qtmobility to save time ;-)21:50
npmarjan\: have any releases been shipped or tested w/ connman 0.72... not sure if core is ok21:51
arjan\and I'm sure the UX guys can use a handful of weeks21:51
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arjan\we're at 0.69 right now21:52
npmmy latest update allows me to apply less voodoo to keep the network stable, but i see no releases with it shipping....21:52
arjan\and will not move forward if that gives instability21:52
npmand even then, 0.72 just gives a whole new set of bugs that are less severe21:52
Stskeepsi wouldn't so much mind a delay if that means that there's a compliance document out for 1.2 at release21:53
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Stskeepsof course, that might be a long delay then ;)21:54
npm<arjan\> we're at 0.69 right now ==> "core is not ok"21:54
arjan\why is 0.69 not ok ;)21:55
Stskeepsnpm: BMC#'s?21:55
arjan\and if connman is the only core problem I'll cheer.21:55
npmstatic IP doesn't work21:55
arjan\I have so many static IPs on my phone or tablet ;-)21:55
arjan\sure I am not saying there are no bugs21:55
arjan\but if that is the worst bug in the core.... I'll take it any day.21:55
npmwell that's the issue. i want static ip on my netbook at home21:55
arjan\we have 3 weeks ;-)21:56
npmand it's never tested, so issues persist21:56
Stskeepsif it's not tested, poke the QA people21:56
npmhere i'll give some bmc's21:56
Stskeepsthey're not doing their job then21:56
npmone sec21:56
gabrbeddarjan\: npm  I'll take a non-crashing mcompositor over static IP's... just my preference.  :-p21:56
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npmhttps://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=9007 https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=7529  https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=11083  https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=5202 https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13653  https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13780  https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1377821:58
MeeGoBotBug 9007 nor, High, ---, martin.xu, NEED, [REG]network notification pop up about every 5 minutes21:58
MeeGoBotBug 7529 nor, High, 1.1, ying.an.deng, RELE FIXED, [REG]network notification pop up about every 5 minutes21:58
MeeGoBotBug 11083 maj, Medium, ---, jimmy.huang, NEW, [REG] "Ethernet/Wifi is not available" in Control Panel21:59
MeeGoBotBug 5202 enh, Low, ---, martin.xu, ASSI, Connman deletes the (2nd) static IP while renewing DHCP lease21:59
MeeGoBotBug 13653 nor, Medium, 1.3, sameo, ASSI, ConnMan applet disconnect does not disconnect ipv621:59
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npmhttps://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13778#c34 indicates connman > 0.71 fixes .... but still keep testing same old code and bugs22:00
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npmone more: https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1482222:01
MeeGoBotBug 14822 nor, Medium, ---, martin.xu, ASSI, [REG]Wifi list will refresh in few minutes22:01
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berndhsgabrbedd: I don't think the people fixing connman are the same ones who work on mcompositor22:05
* timeless_w7ip sure hopes not22:07
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gabrbeddberndhs: You never know. :-)22:10
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gabrbeddStskeeps: Do you know if there have been any advances on the mdecorator thing in the past week?  (It's been about that long since sync'ing with a daily build)22:13
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Stskeepsgabrbedd: not the right person to ask about that.. but let me look22:14
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gabrbeddStskeeps: I just figured you'd know since you're also in the middle of the Tablet/Handset confusion.22:14
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Stskeepsgabrbedd: well, technically nothing stops you from just removing the decorator_removal.patch22:15
Stskeepsthere's no comments so i can't see the exact reasons for ripping it out even of mcompositor support22:15
Stskeepsi am almost willing to be it has something to deal with the double window issue, that it happens when mdecorator isn't running..22:16
Stskeepsbe=bet22:16
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gabrbeddStskeeps: Thanks.  Double-window issue?22:18
Stskeepsbug 826822:18
MeeGoBotBug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=8268 nor, High, ---, ext-alexandr.ivanov, REOP, Double thumbnail windows display when launching the xterm.22:18
Stskeepsas in, it actually doesn't fullscreen things..22:18
Stskeepsmcompositor had a bit of a fail with "oh, we need to run qt apps? who wants to do that anyway?"22:19
Stskeeps:P22:19
gabrbeddStskeeps: ok... yeah, I think that patch is causing that issue.22:20
Stskeepsor the code it's removing is the cause :)22:21
gabrbeddWell, I get that issue with the Tablet UX and the Handset UX (after Tablet UX was released)22:22
gabrbeddBut the day before... I was getting decorators and fullscreen and everything I wanted.  :-)22:22
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gabrbeddDawnFoster: Happy birthday! :-)23:53
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DawnFostergabrbedd: thanks!23:53
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* w00t_ throws a box of chocolates at DawnFoster23:54
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DawnFosterthanks w00t_ - I did already have some vegan chocolate cake :)23:55
w00t_no such thing as too much chocolate, I always say...23:55
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