IRC log of #meego for Tuesday, 2011-03-29

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* lcuk /me puts a plate of freshly baked pizza on the table		00:29
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ejones2	Hi, I am looking to get an OBS account... Not quite sure how to contact lbt for this request.	00:31
lbt	here is good	00:31
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ejones2	cool! So what info do you need from me to get that started?	00:32
CosmoHill	ejones2: you need to register on meego.com and you're only allowed open source projects on the community OBS	00:32
lbt	http://wiki.meego.com/OBS	00:32
lbt	ah	00:32
lbt	yup	00:32
ejones2	I have an account on meego.com	00:32
* lcuk grabs another slice of his pizza since nobody else is :P		00:33
CosmoHill	tell lbt what it is	00:33
CosmoHill	ooo pizza	00:33
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CosmoHill	I do have an attention span, I swe....oh hey a squirrel	00:33
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gabrbedd	lcuk: Dammit, lcuk! Stop it!	00:34
lcuk	lbt, whilst you are in an obs mood, can you just confirm if I have an account already	00:34
lcuk	gabrbedd, :D	00:34
lbt	you do lcuk	00:35
* gabrbedd loves pizza, but will probably get wheat spaghetti tonight. :-/		00:35
lcuk	thanks, I will play more then	00:35
lbt	ejones2: ...	00:35
* lcuk notices some silly bugs that can be fixed :)		00:35
* lbt wants to get back to work.... :)		00:35
lcuk	lbt there is a pint waiting at the bar when you are done	00:35
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lbt	cider?	00:36
CosmoHill	yes please	00:36
* lbt wanders off ... ejones2 ping me when you're back		00:36
lcuk	lbt it goes against the principles of beer, but since it is you :) sure.	00:37
ejones2	OK, so i log on to meego.com with my credentials (ejones2) I am unable to login to build.pub.meego.com with the same credentials	00:37
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CosmoHill	lbt: maybe we should add something to the wiki about OBS registration	00:38
ejones2	sorry lbt, was trying to login to verify my login/passwd were correct	00:38
lbt	ejones2: that's because you had an epic fail at 2.3 https://build.pub.meego.com/user/register_user	00:38
lbt	ie "tell me"	00:39
CosmoHill	a lot of people, like me, assume that you're assuming that our IRC nick is the same nick on meego	00:39
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lbt	try now :)	00:39
lbt	CosmoHill: yeah I should make it clear : "we don't know what your username is ... spell it out"	00:39
ejones2	Thanks lbt! Looks like I am logged in now	00:39
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CosmoHill	probably doesn't help that I don't use my surname on meego.com	00:40
lbt	ejones2: cool - have fun and let us know of any issues	00:40
lbt	OK ... bcache soon	00:40
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lbt	my ocz is on it's way	00:41
ejones2	I think if you guys had this link (https://build.pub.meego.com/user/register_user) on the meego wiki page, it might be more clear	00:41
lbt	ejones2: good idea ... please edit it in :)	00:41
lbt	I thought it was there actually	00:41
ejones2	sure thing. Thanks for helping me get started.	00:41
ejones2	Maybe i missed it	00:41
lbt	well, I don't see it either	00:42
lbt	but it's probably worth having the text in a "how to register" section	00:42
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lbt	save clicking through	00:42
norayr	lbt: I guess the talk is related to the OBS access	00:43
norayr	I also would like to have access to the public OBS service	00:44
norayr	my meego account name is norayr as well	00:44
* CosmoHill watches a music video then grinds through his references		00:44
lbt	sure norayr.... this is community OBS for open source apps - yes?	00:45
norayr	exactly :)	00:45
lbt	done	00:45
norayr	thanks :)	00:45
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mnementh	w00t_: already filing merge requests i see ;)	01:33
w00t_	mnementh: :)	01:34
w00t_	mnementh: while you're around, actually.. the new UX contacts application doesn't launch on my n900	01:34
w00t_	well, it launches	01:34
w00t_	but presents me with an almost totally white screen	01:34
w00t_	any tips on debugging that? as i presume you were involved :)	01:34
mnementh	i just copied your suspenders of excellence and submitted my own merge request.	01:34
w00t_	\o/	01:35
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w00t_	where is it? happy to help take a peek :)	01:35
mnementh	w00t_: can you get any serial output from that device. usually white screen == QML reference error. make sure meegolabs-us-components meego-app-components and meego-media	01:36
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mnementh	w00t_: i might need to update package dependencies. we just moved a few things around and i might not have caught my .pro file up with the changing times	01:37
mnementh	not sure if it's meego-media hold on a sex	01:37
mnementh	sec*	01:37
w00t_	mnementh: sure	01:37
mnementh	bah laptop keyboard	01:37
mnementh	meego-ux-media	01:37
mnementh	w00t_: meego-ux-media, meego-app-im, meegolabs-ux-components	01:38
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mnementh	and i need to copy your async changes over to that model it's very hacked up right now. I started with ContactModel and then could not inherit from Nokia's private plugin classes so to add other invokable methods I resorted to c++ again.	01:39
w00t_	nod	01:39
w00t_	aha: http://w00t.dereferenced.net/p/t/pastebin20110328-28645-1orroi7-0.txt	01:39
w00t_	I guess I am missing some package	01:40
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mnementh	i suspected it was im	01:40
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mnementh	i'll update the right package dependencies	01:40
w00t_	:)	01:41
w00t_	hmm, meego-app-im doesn't seem to be packaged	01:41
w00t_	hm.	01:42
mnementh	w00t_: let me check status	01:44
w00t_	I found it in devel:ux	01:44
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w00t_	so I guess it just hasn't promoted yet	01:45
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w00t_	wow	01:46
w00t_	the QML UI is a lot nicer :-)	01:46
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mnementh	w00t_: https://meego.gitorious.org/meego-ux/meego-app-im, package is in Trunk	01:47
w00t_	ah, hrm	01:47
mnementh	w00t_; fair warning. QML UX was not geared towards handset... evolving daily	01:48
w00t_	you mean 'is still evolving'? :)	01:48
w00t_	tbh it's quite usable now	01:49
w00t_	only some minor problems	01:49
mikhas	what does that mean? you hardcoded everything?	01:49
mnementh	you'll need email and browser to launch from contact too :)	01:49
mnementh	w00t_: well for example i had to rip out the index bar because the font was too small for your finger to land on a letter, about to add another version back in :)	01:49
w00t_	good that you're trying it on handset too :-)	01:49
rustylynch	w00t_: just added another comment to the orientation fix merge request.... i suspect somebody changed your sensorfw config file	01:51
w00t_	rustylynch: yeah, just got the mail, good tip	01:52
w00t_	i'll try poke the n900 h/w guys tomorrow	01:52
rustylynch	btw... i don't plan on sending any sr's till after the Tuesday build to let the dust settle a bit	01:52
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w00t_	rustylynch: no hurry	01:58
w00t_	I have my own devel:ux branch :)	01:58
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w00t_	rustylynch: btw, do you have a few minutes to talk about ux-daemon? (assuming you spend the most time on it? :))	02:16
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rustylynch	w00t_: sure	02:18
w00t_	rustylynch: I'm wondering, most of all, why panels / lockscreen are in the ux-daemon process	02:19
w00t_	background: i'm concerned about ux-daemon's memory usage, as i'm trying to enable it to be used reasonably happily on the n900 (and other lower resource devices)	02:20
rustylynch	mostly it was convenient, but also trying to limit the number of global opengl contexts	02:20
w00t_	hah!	02:20
w00t_	you'll love something i'm experimenting with then	02:20
* w00t_ finds the patch		02:20
w00t_	http://w00t.dereferenced.net/p/t/pastebin20110329-29447-1xe1dm1-0.txt	02:21
* rustylynch reads		02:21
w00t_	I am also interested in limiting the number of contexts, as SGX drivers are apparently really stupid, they allocate a ~10mb chunk of RAM for every context and sit on it	02:22
w00t_	so I came up with that hack for now	02:22
w00t_	it needs further refinement, as it causes some flicker	02:22
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w00t_	but it does what it says on the box	02:22
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rustylynch	your right... i do want this	02:23
w00t_	okay, I'll keep you informed	02:23
rustylynch	i've been asking around how to switch between hardware/software rendering on the fly	02:23
w00t_	I want to talk to some of the graphical gurus I know about to see if I can reduce that flicker any	02:23
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rustylynch	you can you make this work then i would be glad to cleanup meego-ux-daemon such that it doesn't try and run the panels/appgrid in the same process	02:24
w00t_	assuming we can land something like this, would you be open to splitting ux-daemon up into smaller pieces?	02:24
w00t_	excellent	02:24
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w00t_	that should lower memory footprint quite a lot	02:24
rustylynch	panels pulls in so much stuff that it's really adding to the surface area for meego-ux-daemon, which is especially embarrising to crash	02:25
w00t_	yeah...	02:25
w00t_	I must admit, the output of /proc/$pid/maps kind of terrified me :P	02:25
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w00t_	rustylynch: might have another patch for you for qml launcher shortly	03:06
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w00t_	rustylynch: does anything rely on the signature of LauncherApplication/LauncherWindow?	03:48
w00t_	I've made some changes, and for some reason, it's just exit(0) ing	03:48
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* lbt wonders who's in irc when I'm not...		04:22
lbt	just w00t_ ...	04:22
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berndhs	465 others	04:23
berndhs	some probably even human	04:23
lbt	you think ?	04:24
berndhs	yeah a few	04:24
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lbt	it's late and it's that cold time of the night	04:25
lbt	-> bed	04:25
berndhs	a reasonable plan	04:25
lbt	night	04:25
berndhs	good night	04:25
* w00t_ eyes lbt		04:25
w00t_	apparently i am going to be ronery then :)	04:25
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GeneralAntilles	Need more people from reasonable timezones.	04:34
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berndhs	GeneralAntilles: yeah people should move to where I am :)	04:35
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mue	"reasonable"	04:36
GeneralAntilles	mue: EDT, currently. :P	04:36
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berndhs	its a reasonable time to go to sleep in EDT, good night	05:14
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iekku	morning	06:19
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Termana	morning	06:21
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timoph	morning	06:45
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gabrbedd	timoph: Howdy!	07:02
timoph	o/	07:02
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lcuk	morning guys \o	07:53
lcuk	I spotted this last night and it caught a happy nerve, regarding how Mozilla are streamlining their mobile browser http://stechz.com/2011/responsive-panning-and-zooming/	07:54
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gabrbedd	lcuk: Hey man! You're up early!	07:57
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timoph	just found out that help.meego.com exists	07:58
timoph	nice idea but IMO needs some work to be really helpful	07:59
iekku	oh	07:59
gabrbedd	timoph: Ah, I remember that site. Was really helpful when I couldn't figure out clutter. :-)	08:00
timoph	:)	08:00
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lcuk	timoph, I gather a lot of that was originally created around moblin?	08:01
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gabrbedd	It's been around since 1.0... back when Netbook was the only useable UX.	08:02
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timoph	lcuk: looks like it	08:03
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* Stskeeps ponders if it's possible to construct a better netbook UX with the new qml stuff		08:07
lcuk	one step at a time	08:08
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lcuk	Stskeeps, it certainly would be of course	08:10
lcuk	speaking of qml, in the tablet photo viewer	08:11
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lcuk	when you are panning through images, sometimes a row of thumbnails appears at the top	08:11
lcuk	but there is no defined action to do it	08:11
lcuk	not to mention when it is displayed it goes out of sync quite easily	08:11
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gabrbedd	One UX to rule them all, One UX to find them, One UX to bring them all and in the LF kind them.	08:13
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gabrbedd	Actually, for a netbook ux (no touch) -- the mutter thing was pretty darn good. That's what sold us on meego.	08:14
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lcuk	hmm the tasks UI has odd UX and leads to duplicating actions and scratching heads.	08:19
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gabrbedd	lcuk: tasks ui?	08:22
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lcuk	gabrbedd, on the tablet ux, there is a tasks app	08:23
lcuk	just simple ticklist	08:23
lcuk	similar to the one on netbook	08:23
* lcuk uses that quite often now :)		08:23
gabrbedd	lcuk: ah.	08:25
lcuk	it does not do much good in the tablet UX though	08:25
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lcuk	since the panels view does not appear to show the tasks	08:26
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gabrbedd	the reason for duplicating it is probably because the netbook one is GTK+	08:26
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lcuk	I happened to like this concept: http://www.meegoexperts.com/2011/03/conceptual-meego-tablet-ui-pictures/	08:28
lcuk	it looks similar to the liqbase playground on the front screen and I believe should be workable in some manner in qml (though scaling of qml crops up as a problem every time I discuss it)	08:28
gabrbedd	Me too... it's lika a mashup of liqbase and the Netbook UX.	08:29
gabrbedd	i tried to get the latest tablet ux running on my pineviews... that was no phun.	08:30
gabrbedd	At least... trying to do it through zypper was a losing proposition.	08:30
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lcuk	gabrbedd, yeah but the usb stick gives a great simple way of booting and testing without impacting running system	08:31
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gabrbedd	Yes, but my that' swhat my running system is for... and mic2 is typically not very friendly with me. :-)	08:34
lcuk	buy mic a beer, I am sure he will be nicer. :)	08:35
gabrbedd	dunno, he slurs his error messages... I think he's already 3 sheets to the wind	08:36
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* lcuk goes breakfasting with snotbag ala jake		08:41
gabrbedd	:-)	08:41
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* lopotter gets permission denied when doing a zypper refresh		09:23
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lopotter	oh wonderful. yet another repo change...	09:24
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bkalinga	hi My qemu goes black screen when i click on something and come after several minutes	09:36
bkalinga	anyone facing this issue	09:36
bkalinga	it is very slow for using it	09:36
Stskeeps	x86 or arm?	09:36
bkalinga	qemu is supposed be x86	09:37
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bkalinga	can i am using meego-handset-ia32-qemu-1.1.90.1.20110201.1-runtime	09:38
bkalinga	can* is typo pls ignore it	09:38
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lcuk	bkalinga, is this a new experience?	09:39
lcuk	or have you only just started to use the qemu?	09:39
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bkalinga	no i feel earlier it was bit responsive but now it seems dead slow	09:40
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lcuk	also bkalinga that image is quite old indeed	09:40
bkalinga	i have 4 ssh login opened ,would that create any problem??	09:40
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bkalinga	do we have 1.2 released??	09:41
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lcuk	bkalinga, not yet.	09:42
bkalinga	In that case 1.1.9 can not be considered too old.	09:42
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bkalinga	i just clicked on SMS application 10minutes ago still now it shows black screen	09:43
lcuk	bkalinga, when normally picking up the daily testing images, it is.	09:43
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lcuk	however there is no -qemu build on the dailies for handset	09:43
lcuk	hm	09:43
bkalinga	actually i am not taking daily images..have just taken the pre-release one	09:44
bkalinga	have experienced handset image on qemu any time	09:44
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bkalinga	i have a small doubt, when i use zypper si <package name > does is modify(add/remove/replace) any binay content to my build environment as it is supposed to resolve package dependency	10:01
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Jaffa	Morning, all	10:53
iekku	good morning Jaffa	10:53
Stskeeps	morn jaffa	10:54
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lcuk	\o jaffa	10:54
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lbt	hey Jaffa (and everyone)	11:00
lbt	-> coffee	11:01
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andreizro	hy all. I am trying to build a MeeGo project based on MeeGo 1.1.90.5.20110301.7 and I have a problem. For ARMv7 the build stalls when building gcc. This happens on both my OBS server and my local build machine. It seems to stall when configuring libgomp .... it just stays there and no error is given. More than 24hrs passed. It works just fine for i586. Any toughts?	11:25
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thiago	what is it doing?	11:28
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Stskeeps	andreizro: what prjconf are you using?	11:29
andreizro	Trunk	11:30
Stskeeps	andreizro: could you pastiebin it?	11:30
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andreizro	sure, but it's the Trunk that MeeGo uses right now. I just took it 1hr ago	11:31
andreizro	Trunk.conf I mean	11:31
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andreizro	Stskeeps: Do you still want me to paste it?	11:33
Stskeeps	yes	11:33
andreizro	k	11:33
* timeless_w7ip ponders		11:34
timeless_w7ip	stskeeps: so, is there actually any qa team for meego? :)	11:35
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Stskeeps	timeless_w7ip: yes?	11:35
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timeless_w7ip	and do they triage bugs? :)	11:35
Stskeeps	yes	11:35
andreizro	Stskeeps: http://pastie.org/1730124	11:36
Stskeeps	andreizro: armv7el or armv8el?	11:36
andreizro	armv7	11:37
Stskeeps	ok	11:37
Stskeeps	what make -j is used?	11:37
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andreizro	-j1	11:39
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Stskeeps	hmm.	11:40
Stskeeps	andreizro: what cpu is the builders?	11:40
andreizro	a Quad	11:40
Stskeeps	specifically what processor :)	11:40
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andreizro	:) Intel Core2 Q9550	11:41
Stskeeps	should work	11:41
andreizro	that's my OBS worker, my laptop has a Core i5 M560 ... and the same issue	11:42
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Stskeeps	andreizro: ps aux on worker and see what gets stuck?	11:56
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andreizro	Stskeeps: here is how it freezes: http://pastie.org/private/w1hzsizbxask4dibhpoaea	11:59
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Stskeeps	TLS?	11:59
Stskeeps	that's interesting - what qemu version do you have on there?	11:59
andreizro	0.12.4-1.7	12:00
Stskeeps	you need at least 0.14	12:00
Stskeeps	er	12:00
Stskeeps	0.13	12:00
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andreizro	really? I was using MeeGo 1.0.1 untill recently and ARM builds worked out fine ...	12:01
Stskeeps	yes, but things change :P	12:01
andreizro	:) agreed	12:01
Stskeeps	as an example we actually build properly towards armv7-a now	12:01
Stskeeps	which means mtp=cp15	12:02
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andreizro	ok, I'll try to update qemu and see if that resolves the issue	12:03
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andreizro	Stskeeps: just for the record ... .for armv8el to work, do I need an even newer kernel?	12:10
andreizro	I mean qemu	12:10
Stskeeps	andreizro: yeah, but latest qemu should do the trick	12:11
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andreizro	you mean 0.14 ?	12:11
Stskeeps	well, whatever is latest :P	12:11
andreizro	ok	12:11
andreizro	thanks	12:11
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niqt	hi	12:42
niqt	is possible install xfce on meego last build without compile it?	12:42
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timeless_w7ip	niqt: might i ask why you would want to?	12:44
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niqt	i have developer qt application, (kiosk apllication) but isn't run corretly with match-box and twm	12:45
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timeless_w7ip	ok...	12:45
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timeless_w7ip	do you have a deadline for a demo? ... what does installing xfce get you?	12:46
niqt	tomorrow	12:46
niqt	with xfece i should see a gui in corretly mode (with match-box i have bad fullscreen an new dialog go in background not in foreground)	12:48
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timeless_w7ip	well, in general i think one would use 'zypper' to try to find out if something is available	12:50
timeless_w7ip	otherwise you'd use an obs to create the missing things	12:51
timeless_w7ip	(or just try to borrow a package from a similar distro)	12:51
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niqt	ok	12:55
niqt	thanks	12:55
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jbos	hello i wonder, wetab - does it support celluar call?	13:13
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jbos	the 32 gb version does have a 3g modem	13:14
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siddharths	heyo :)	13:25
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Stskeeps	moo	13:25
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siddharths	Stskeeps, heyo do you remember me :) i use to be h4xordood	13:26
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siddharths	i have one question, can i run meego netbook on i7 notebook ?	13:27
Stskeeps	does it have SSSE3?	13:27
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siddharths	Stskeeps, where to check i really dont have any idea about that	13:28
siddharths	i have i7 720M	13:28
Stskeeps	/proc/cpuinfo	13:28
siddharths	okay i it doesnt have ssse3 then ?	13:28
Stskeeps	check in ther	13:28
Stskeeps	e	13:28
siddharths	right now i am not in front of my system but i will check it in evening	13:29
siddharths	:)	13:29
siddharths	and is meego running on n900 ?	13:30
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siddharths	i mean with basic features	13:30
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mardy	I'm a bit confused with MeeGo OBS projects:	14:03
mardy	AFAIK, libMeegoTouch has been moved to the Handset vertical	14:03
mardy	yet, the library is in the Trunk project, and not in Trunk:Handset	14:04
Stskeeps	everything is in Trunk now	14:04
mardy	Stskeeps: is it in Trunk just because it used to be there and we cannot move it out, or is it how things are supposed to be?	14:05
Stskeeps	that's how it got reorganised	14:05
Stskeeps	they're keeping Trunk:Handset around for whatever reason	14:05
Stskeeps	it's on package group basis now	14:05
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mardy	Stskeeps: ah, I see, thanks! Where can I see the configurations for different verticals (or how are they called?)?	14:06
Stskeeps	package-groups	14:06
mardy	Stskeeps: found, thanks a lot :-)	14:07
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andreizro	Stskeeps: gcc built ok for ARM after qemu upgrade to 0.14.0	14:26
Stskeeps	OK	14:26
Stskeeps	good	14:26
andreizro	thanks	14:26
andreizro	one more question: when is the MeeGo 1.2 release plannet? I thought I heard something about April	14:26
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thiago	andreizro: end of April / beginning of May	14:27
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Stskeeps	http://wiki.meego.com/Release_Engineering/Plans/1.2	14:27
andreizro	ok, thank you	14:27
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bkalinga	when ever i enter qemu shell by doing ssh; i could see several system debug logs are coming	15:20
bkalinga	Message from syslogd@localhost at Tue Mar 29 15:20:15 2011 ...	15:20
bkalinga	localhost klogd: [ 635.654885] Process tracker-store (pid: 661, ti=eab9a000 task=ea98c850 task.ti=eab9a000)	15:20
bkalinga	how to get rid of this	15:21
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jonnor	Can I get and use the Meego artwork? I have a internal document about Meego, and I'd like to add a Meego character to it.	15:33
mardy	w00t_: thanks for the pointers. Does the tablet/unified UX project have a wiki page or ML?	15:33
w00t_	mardy: I haven't really found any wiki page, but then, I haven't gone looking	15:34
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w00t_	code is at: https://meego.gitorious.org/meego-ux/	15:34
w00t_	apps are QML stubs of sorts, launched by meego-qml-launcher	15:35
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* timeless_w7ip shakes a stick		15:43
bkalinga	hi all, i am facing a problem in qemu for meego Handset image	15:43
bkalinga	when ever i try to move my mouse pointer over the qemu	15:44
timeless_w7ip	w00t:: can you try to link to things under http://mxr.meego.com/meego.gitorious.org/source/ :)	15:44
bkalinga	its getting disappear and not able to tap anywhere using the mouse pointer	15:44
bkalinga	any one has faced same issue	15:44
bkalinga	http://pastebin.com/1dvpk8EB	15:45
w00t_	timeless_w7ip: given you can't clone from mxr, no	15:45
bkalinga	this is the logs that i am getting in my qemu $ shell	15:46
timeless_w7ip	w00t_: actually, you can :)	15:48
timeless_w7ip	(as long as you speak hg)	15:48
timeless_w7ip	http://mxr.meego.com/hgweb.cgi/ <- somewhere in there	15:48
timeless_w7ip	(technically if you were really clever you could probably convince mxr to let you have access to the git repos too since it has them)	15:49
timeless_w7ip	err	15:49
* timeless_w7ip pokes hgweb		15:49
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* mikeleib waves to all the boys and girls of the world		16:36
CosmoHill	.o/	16:36
Stskeeps	morn mikeleib	16:36
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Stskeeps	so you responsible for anything in tablet UX?	16:36
mikeleib	semi	16:37
* mikeleib has been poking here and there		16:37
Stskeeps	k	16:37
* mikeleib is turning his attention to improvements to qml-launcher		16:37
Stskeeps	much needed :P	16:37
mikeleib	I think w00t_ has some patches in flight	16:38
Stskeeps	yeah	16:38
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mikeleib	Hopefully we'll be able to trade some patches and get things more betterrer	16:39
mikeleib	my goal is faster and less memory	16:39
Stskeeps	well, the GL context stuff will help a lot on iCDK and other SGX based systems (like N900)	16:39
w00t_	mikeleib: lovely! so's mine :-)	16:39
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gabrbedd	speaking of the tablet ux... where can one find a pineview .ks file?	16:41
mikeleib	Yes. But it's a tricky business as not everybody has the same features in their proprietary driver. Nokia platforms have some special sauce to make this work better, if I understand correctly	16:41
w00t_	mikeleib: I already have it working, I just need to remove a visual glitch	16:41
Stskeeps	nop, think they just let go of the context	16:41
w00t_	mikeleib: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oy10RPxLEn4	16:41
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mikeleib	if it's the patch you sent earlier, I saw it working on a pinetrail system	16:41
w00t_	mikeleib: oh, yes	16:42
w00t_	it is	16:42
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mikeleib	I want to verify that the resources are really given up	16:42
w00t_	they are on n900 at least	16:42
mikeleib	we did a similar experiment ages ago, but the resources never came back	16:42
w00t_	and in theory, they should be	16:42
mikeleib	however, a lot of plumbing has changed since then	16:42
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w00t_	(as QGLWidget is what holds the context, and setViewport deletes the old viewport)	16:42
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Stskeeps	launch times should be improved as well	16:43
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mikeleib	spiffy	16:44
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* CosmoHill wonders what happened to all the good candybar phones		17:24
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timeless_w7ip	cosmohill: everyone's getting fat these days :)	17:25
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Bostik	they got chomped by all this touchy-feely thing, biting down seems to have gone out of fashion	17:25
CosmoHill	I love how crappy vodafone's website is	17:26
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CosmoHill	doesn't seem to register than it's told me it's a smart phone twice, a HTC three times and other things	17:26
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CosmoHill	comparing two phones: dimentions is listed 6 times	17:27
CosmoHill	http://shop.vodafone.co.uk/shop/catalog/phonesComparePage.jsp?categoryId=cat70018&serverName=	17:27
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* CosmoHill 's head goes pop thinking about database distribution		19:28
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siddharths	Stskeeps: ping	19:50
siddharths	Stskeeps: http://pastebin.kde.org/8460/	19:51
Stskeeps	not here, making stea	19:51
Stskeeps	k	19:51
siddharths	oh	19:51
siddharths	Stskeeps: i see "flags : ssse3"	19:51
siddharths	so it can run meego netbook ?	19:52
Stskeeps	should	19:53
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siddharths	thnx	19:53
siddharths	any idea VBOX settings needed ?	19:53
Stskeeps	vbox probably wont wor	19:53
Stskeeps	k	19:53
siddharths	vmware also wont work ?	19:53
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gabrbedd	Stskeeps: At first i thought you were making te	19:56
gabrbedd	a	19:56
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wengtim	is here any meego smartphone on the market?	20:29
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maligor	no	20:30
wengtim	i ve broken my n900 ( screen broken ) , i m want to get a new smartphone	20:30
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wengtim	thanks maligor	20:30
maligor	the meego handset isn't really ready for ... a market handset	20:30
wengtim	so i have 2 choice, get a new n900	20:30
wengtim	or switch to android ( :( )	20:31
wengtim	what do u advice?	20:31
maligor	I'm a heathen android user, so I might be biased	20:31
wengtim	i like android ( you mean )?	20:31
maligor	biggest issue with android is that the manufacturers release updates really really sluggishly	20:31
wengtim	u like	20:31
maligor	sure	20:31
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wengtim	ok for android ( coz i dont want to give a buck to nokia )	20:32
wengtim	which brand ?	20:32
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wengtim	LG optimus ? Htc desire hd	20:32
Stskeeps	engadget.com for that plesase :)	20:32
maligor	well, I have a Samsung Google Nexus S	20:32
maligor	but shrug	20:32
wengtim	ok, i will check abt it	20:33
wengtim	stskeeps, advice a meego phone i will purchase it, even 2000 usd	20:33
wengtim	there s no, so we are talking abt alternatives	20:33
berndhs	how does one stop a build on OBS ?	20:33
wengtim	sorry?	20:34
berndhs	no wait I found it	20:34
maligor	wengtim, this is mostly a developer channel	20:34
Stskeeps	wengtim: yes, please do that in #meego-bar :)	20:34
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wengtim	#meego at irc.freenode.net: 24/7 open discussion.	20:34
wengtim	http://meego.com/community/irc-channel	20:34
wengtim	so i thought we could have an open discussion	20:35
* thiago_home looks at his progress reviewing the meegoconf submissions		20:35
wengtim	sorry	20:35
thiago_home	15 out of 182	20:35
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Stskeeps	thiago_home: i just finished categorising, now scripting something to help me review presentations by ordering firefox tabs :P	20:35
maligor	wengtim, well, the reason I chose nexus S is simply because the google branded nexus units have a track record of getting updates	20:35
wengtim	i see, doest it have a keyboard?	20:36
maligor	no.	20:36
wengtim	i need a keyboard, coz i m used with the n900	20:36
thiago_home	Stskeeps: you've categorised?	20:38
thiago_home	that's what I was doing...	20:38
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wengtim	bye	20:38
wengtim	stop working on meego, u r losing your time	20:39
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Stskeeps	sigh	20:39
Stskeeps	:P	20:39
* thiago_home is reading all the submissions and selecting the Track and a Sub-track		20:40
Jaffa	Fun	20:41
Stskeeps	'lo jaffa	20:41
Jaffa	We've got a sponsorship call, err soon. Next week or so.	20:41
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Stskeeps	thiago_home: sent my spreadsheet v2, may be useful for your own stuff too	20:55
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thiago_home	thanks	20:56
Stskeeps	getting the id of a certain presentation mouseover on "Edit" is useful :)	20:57
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* mikeleib waves to heliocastro		21:27
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heliocastro	mikeleib: Howdy	21:28
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mikeleib	what brings heliocastro to #meego?	21:28
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heliocastro	Well, before whole Nokia up and downs, we are in head to work in Meego	21:29
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heliocastro	And i still intend to work with meego, just need finish the current assignment	21:29
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mikeleib	sooper	21:31
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thiago_home	"finish harmattan" has been in the to-do list for over a year now...	21:31
heliocastro	mikeleib: And still, we're need to fit kde on meego well	21:31
mikeleib	heliocastro: yah	21:31
* mikeleib is eager for kde to work on his meego machine		21:32
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thiago_home	netbook it works	21:32
* mikeleib added the kdemobile community repos, but I think it's half borked in trunk		21:32
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* mikeleib has been using home:mkruisselbrink:kde in cbuild.meego.com		21:34
mikeleib	maybe that's wrong place?	21:34
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Mek	the ones for meego trunk are potentially a bit problematic, with bits of kde also existing in meego trunk itself	21:36
Mek	we haven't quite figured out the best solution to that yet	21:36
* mikeleib is eager to stop using xfce4, which appears to be abandoned		21:37
mue	abandoned? 4.8 just came out	21:38
mikeleib	in cbuild.meego.com	21:38
mue	i see	21:38
Stskeeps	mikeleib: poke auke about it i guess	21:38
mikeleib	it's on the tail end of the todo, IIRC	21:38
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rustylynch	I'm finding all my access to ssh clones on gitorious now fail for access permissions (even personal clones), it it looks like this is also true for other behind the same firewall.... can somebody not stuck behind a firewall verify that your gitorious ssh clones still work? I'm suspicious of the firewall	21:50
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thiago_home	checking	21:51
mikhas	== Gitorious: ==========================================================	21:52
mikhas	Access denied or wrong repository path	21:52
mikhas	========================================================================	21:52
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thiago_home	Access denied	21:52
mikhas	it is not you, rustylynch	21:52
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rustylynch	ok, thanks	21:52
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thiago_home	I think we need accessdeniedforeveryoneorjustme.com, just like downforeveryoneorjustme.com	21:52
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Stskeeps	isgitoriousdown.com	21:54
mikhas	Stskeeps, and it would simply respond, "Yes, it usually is."	21:55
thiago_home	downforeveryoneorjustme.com, lmgtfy.com and classnamer.com are three of the best websites	21:55
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gabrbedd	CryptographicTimestampDialog	21:57
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thiago_home	RecursiveYakizakanaInfo	21:58
thiago_home	MultipleButtonFactoryFactory	21:58
thiago_home	w00t_: do you have the log of when we had a good class naming discussion in #qt-labs?	21:58
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gabrbedd	hahaha!	21:59
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thiago_home	oh, we had a good one trying to decide on the name of the macro for __builtin_expect	21:59
thiago_home	the MR proposes Q_LIKELY, I wanted Q_IS_LIKELY	21:59
w00t_	thiago_home: hahaha, yeah, I have it somewhere	21:59
w00t_	should I try find it?	21:59
w00t_	Q_WE_ARE_THE_KNIGHTS_WHO_LIKELY_SAY_NI	22:00
ali1234	"MultipleButtonFactoryFactory" sums up everything i hate about OO code in 28 characters	22:00
thiago_home	oh, yeah	22:00
* thiago_home whistles innocently		22:00
thiago_home	...whoever made that suggestion...	22:00
w00t_	ali1234: it can get much worse	22:00
w00t_	MultipleAbstractButtonFactorySingleton!	22:00
ali1234	that's not really any better or worse...	22:01
thiago_home	but I remember a class naming discussion as well that degenerated	22:01
ali1234	anyway aren't all factories singleton?	22:01
phako	w00t_: that's just - true	22:01
phako	;)	22:01
thiago_home	I'm pretty sure it had Abstract, Factory and Singleton in the name	22:01
w00t_	thiago_home: going to look	22:01
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mardy	thiago_home: hi, as also someone else commented, I think that Q_IS_UNLIKELY() is misleading	22:02
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thiago_home	mardy: why?	22:02
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ali1234	i would make the case that if you can't easily think of a name for a class, it shouldn't exist in the first place	22:02
ali1234	but then i'm not in the business of writing toolkits	22:02
gabrbedd	"There are only two hard things in Computer Science: cache invalidation and naming things" - Phil Karlton	22:02
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mardy	thiago_home: because... read this: "if (Q_IS_UNLIKELY(almost_impossible_condition)) { beep(); }"	22:03
thiago_home	mardy: how about Q_CONDITION_LIKELY ?	22:03
mardy	thiago_home: if you don't know the macros, you'll expect it to beep	22:03
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mardy	thiago_home: that would be fine, though I'd prefer something shorter :-p	22:04
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mardy	thiago_home: the other projects I found using this kind of macros, use either G_LIKELY() of likely()	22:04
gabrbedd	Q_ARE_YOU_FEELING_LUCKY_PUNK()	22:04
thiago_home	can't make it too short, otherwise people will use it too often	22:04
thiago_home	and get it wrong	22:05
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thiago_home	w00t_: oh, another good one today. Did you know that those QT_BEGIN_HEADER and QT_END_HEADER macros actually do nothing useful?	22:05
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mardy	thiago_home: actually, the only one I use is Q_UNLIKELY(), it's very nice in error conditions	22:06
mardy	thiago_home: it's not much a matter of optimization, but it really helps in making the code more readable, IMHO	22:06
mardy	thiago_home: because the reader understand what the programmer expects	22:06
* sabotage pings admins on #gitorious RE Access denied errors		22:07
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ali1234	wait, are you talking about "likely" vs "is likely"?	22:09
ali1234	because a direct literal reading of either is misleading...	22:10
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mardy	ali1234: yes, we are talking about them. Yes, it's true that even without "is" they are misleading; but a bit less :-)	22:12
ali1234	they both mean exactly the same thing imo :)	22:12
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ali1234	you'd have to make it Q_CONDITION_WHICH_IS_LIKELY to make it mean the same in english and in C	22:13
mardy	ali1234: but "if is likely" almost reads as good English :-)	22:13
mardy	ali1234: ohi! True, but...	22:13
mardy	lol, what about this:	22:13
mardy	Q_AS_EXPECTED()	22:14
mardy	so, "if (Q_AS_EXPECTED(x != 0)) { ... }"	22:14
mardy	and Q_AS_NOT_EXPECTED	22:14
mardy	:-)	22:14
timeless_w7ip	mardy: that sounds better	22:14
timeless_w7ip	too bad it's likely to lose :)	22:15
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ali1234	likely/unlikely is pretty standard it seems	22:15
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* timeless_w7ip doesn't remember what mozilla uses		22:15
mardy	timeless_w7ip: well, that's another issue :-p	22:15
mardy	ali1234: yep	22:15
timeless_w7ip	http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/search?string=builtin_expect	22:15
timeless_w7ip	we have NS_LIKELY	22:16
ali1234	"expected" doesn't really imply whether you expect it to be true or false... i know likely doesn't either... but it doesn't seem right to me	22:16
timeless_w7ip	harbuzz uses likely	22:16
timeless_w7ip	as does cairo	22:16
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timeless_w7ip	line 128 -- #define GOOGLE_PREDICT_BRANCH_NOT_TAKEN(x) (__builtin_expect(x, 0))	22:16
timeless_w7ip	google has the only reasonable name	22:16
mardy	timeless_w7ip: well... I beg to disagree	22:17
mardy	timeless_w7ip: "if google predicts the branch will not be taken, then..." :-)	22:18
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mardy	Q_AS_EXPECTED/Q_THOUGH_UNEXPECTED :-)	22:19
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phako	Q_WTF_WHY_DID_THAT_HAPPEN	22:20
mardy	phako: lol :-)	22:20
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ali1234	the only way you can really make it senseful in english is to put it after the condition like: if(x=y) usually {do this;} else rarely {do that; }	22:21
timeless_w7ip	mardy: that's google-breakpad code	22:21
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mardy	Q_YOU_BET()/Q_DAMMIT()	22:22
timeless_w7ip	if (Q_SHOULD_HAPPEN()) {}	22:23
mardy	;-)	22:23
timeless_w7ip	if (Q_SHOULD_NOT_HAPPEN()) {}	22:23
mardy	timeless_w7ip: I think they are the same as (un)likely	22:23
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timeless_w7ip	they aren't	22:24
ali1234	they aren't, but they're still not true to the meaning	22:24
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ali1234	Q_LIKELY_CONDITION actually works i think (Q_CONDITION_LIKELY doesn't though)	22:25
timeless_w7ip	the latter definitely doesn't	22:25
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mardy	we should have a poll	22:25
mardy	:-)	22:25
timeless_w7ip	polls are bad	22:25
robsta	heya	22:25
robsta	does anyone have a yaml file for seahorse at hand, by any chance?	22:26
ali1234	i would vote for plain likely... you can't make code into perfect english	22:26
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ali1234	so may as well go with convention	22:26
mardy	ali1234: me too	22:26
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thiago_home	Stskeeps: the appup guys really got their act together for this conference	22:44
thiago_home	lots of submissions	22:44
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Stskeeps	yes	22:45
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Stskeeps	QA is also as big an area as current/future components and SDK	22:45
thiago_home	yeah	22:46
thiago_home	sounds like a good fit for the intended objective of the conference	22:46
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* thiago_home needs to stop for today one fifth of the way through		22:50
thiago_home	I have the entire day tomorrow reserved for this	22:50
thiago_home	now I have to draft a blog	22:51
Stskeeps	:nod: i'm making fairly good progress too	22:51
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Stskeeps	my two last ones is the unforgiving ones of current components and QA	22:51
Stskeeps	(and BoFs)	22:52
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sabotage	FYI, ssh issue on gitorious.org is now fixed	22:56
* thiago_home confirms		22:56
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w00t_	thiago_home: blog \o/	23:00
w00t_	you always write interesting things :)	23:00
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thiago_home	oh, I have two more drafts	23:01
thiago_home	I still need to blog about the QDBusUnixFileDescriptor class	23:01
w00t_	hmmm.. what's that for?	23:01
* mikeleib_afk is curious, too		23:01
thiago_home	passing file descriptors over D-Bus	23:01
thiago_home	msg << QDBusUnixFileDescriptor(fileno(stdout));	23:01
thiago_home	connection.call(msg);	23:01
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mikeleib_afk	but isn't the file descriptor invalid in the other process?	23:02
thiago_home	we don't pass an integer	23:02
thiago_home	we pass the actual file descriptor	23:02
thiago_home	Unix sockets allow doing that	23:02
thiago_home	it passes the kernel stucture	23:02
w00t_	that's cool	23:02
w00t_	what do you do with it on the other side? :)	23:02
phako	w00t_: psst, that't one of the secrets of tracker direct access	23:02
w00t_	phako: I know	23:03
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thiago_home	it's useful, for example, for a privileged process to give an unprivileged process access to a file descriptor it couldn't open	23:03
thiago_home	or for example to give the other process the other end of a pipe	23:03
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thiago_home	secure temporary files too. The only secure way to access a temporary file is via its fd.	23:04
thiago_home	the name is not secure: it can be deleted and recreated.	23:04
* thiago_home needs to document the class first before blogging		23:05
w00t_	the same is true for any file, really, though I think windows has a way to provide more than advisory locking	23:06
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thiago_home	you can't delete an open file on Windows	23:09
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Venemo	hey lcuk :)	23:16
Venemo	lcuk, I've made rpm packaging for puzzle-master	23:17
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lcuk	that is certainly positive step Venemo :D	23:17
Venemo	it works with my Fedora	23:18
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lcuk	you could submit it to OBS and have coverage through all maemo/meego :)	23:18
Venemo	now if only there was a guide about how to set up a MeeGo chroot on my F15 :)	23:18
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gabrbedd	Venemo: don't need a chroot to submit to OBS.	23:20
Venemo	gabrbedd, obviously I would want to test it before submitting.	23:20
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lcuk	Venemo, test at the other side by creating a repository and downloading it	23:21
gabrbedd	Venemo: Don't be such a perfectionist. :-)	23:22
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Venemo	oookay. it will suffice if someone can test it on a MeeGo chroot or device.	23:23
gabrbedd	Venemo: ATM, the community OBS doesn't seem to be too busy -- so you don't need to worry about wasting clock cycles.	23:23
gabrbedd	lbt might correct me, though.	23:23
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lbt	you won't be wasting it - that's what it's for	23:24
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Venemo	so, could someone please test my .src.rpm before I submit it? :)	23:25
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berndhs	test it how ?	23:29
Venemo	by installing on a MeeGo device and seeing if it works correctly	23:29
berndhs	i dont have a device, i just run meego on laptops	23:30
berndhs	where it the src.rpm ?	23:31
Venemo	moment, I'm uploading it	23:31
Venemo	here it is: http://sources.venemo.net/puzzle-master-1.2.2-1.fc15.src.rpm	23:34
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berndhs	rpm says it installed it, but I think it just put the sources somewhere	23:41
Venemo	berndhs, do you know how .src.rpms work?	23:43
berndhs	i have no clue	23:43
berndhs	i'll unpack it and try to do rpmbuild	23:43
Venemo	well, .src.rpm is called a source package. you unpack it with rpm -i (as non-root)	23:43
Venemo	then you do rpmbuild -ba ~/rpmbuild/SPECS/puzzle-master.spec	23:44
berndhs	yeah and wehre does it go then ?	23:44
Venemo	then it goes to ~/rpmbuild/RPMS/yourarchitecture/	23:44
berndhs	ah found it	23:44
berndhs	goes into ~/rpmbuild/SOURCES and .../SPECS	23:45
Venemo	yes.	23:45
Venemo	SPECS has the spec file, SOURCES the source tarball	23:45
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berndhs	can't build it, doesn't find qmake-qt4	23:45
berndhs	there is a macro for that I think	23:46
Venemo	do you have qmake?	23:46
berndhs	qmake name varies depending on the distro	23:46
berndhs	i have qmake yes, its not missing :)	23:46
berndhs	its just not called "qmake-qt4" on meego	23:47
Venemo	interesting. it's called that on both Maemo and Fedora	23:47
lcuk	qmake; make; sudo make install;	23:47
Venemo	well then open the .spec file and change qmake-qt4 to simply qmake	23:47
berndhs	yeah, there are many standards :)	23:48
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Venemo	lcuk, we're testing the packaging here :) sure make install would work, but that's not the point.	23:48
lcuk	i know Venemo :P	23:48
Venemo	lcuk, :P	23:49
berndhs	its not finding QGLWidget	23:49
berndhs	missing a dependency ? it should complain earlier, this is in the compile	23:49
Venemo	do you have the Qt OpenGL packages installed?	23:49
berndhs	dont know, that's not the point	23:49
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berndhs	point it the spec should say you need it	23:50
Venemo	qt-devel should do that.	23:50
Venemo	maybe Qt is packaged differently on MeeGo?	23:50
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berndhs	qt is packaged in as many ways as there are pacakgers :)	23:50
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Venemo	could you pastebin the output of 'rpm -qa \| grep [Qq][Tt]'?	23:51
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gabrbedd	Venemo: What does `zypper wp QtOpenGL` give you ?	23:53
Venemo	gabrbedd, bash: zypper: command not found	23:53
gabrbedd	Venemo: or... `zypper wp "pkgconfig(QtOpenGL)"` give you ?	23:53
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gabrbedd	Venemo: Well, put `BuildRequires: pkgconfig(QtOpenGL)` and it should work regardless of distro	23:54
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Venemo	gabrbedd, hmm, that makes sense	23:55
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lcuk	thiago_home, (regarding the toggles) it is the theme itself that makes it wrong, the nobble is standing out more than the indication itself and hence the problem	23:56
berndhs	http://pastbin.com/2RL3RPGa	23:56
Venemo	berndhs, that's interesting	23:57
Venemo	ok, I'll give you a fixed spec file in a moment	23:57
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