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| CosmoHill | nope, that didn't run | 00:09 |
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| CosmoHill | timeless_w7ip: an interesting thing I've found out. after you've crashed firefox, you then have to get it working again | 00:21 |
| CosmoHill | quiet often it will restore the windows that crashed it | 00:22 |
| CosmoHill | last time I had to start firefox in safe mode and tell it not to restore the previous session | 00:22 |
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| dm8tbr | it should bring up the question dialog after the 2nd or third crash | 00:28 |
| dm8tbr | where you can select which windows to restore | 00:29 |
| dm8tbr | been there since 3.6 IIRC | 00:29 |
| ali1234 | you can disable window restore | 00:29 |
| ali1234 | but you have to do it through about:config | 00:30 |
| ali1234 | because the option in preferences only applies to when you quit normally | 00:30 |
| lcuk | to open about:config usually implies having it open :P | 00:30 |
| lcuk | which generally leads to chicken and egg | 00:30 |
| lcuk | but the dialog normally works | 00:30 |
| ali1234 | yeah | 00:30 |
| ali1234 | thing is, on ubuntu, "normal quit" never seems to happen | 00:31 |
| ali1234 | that is, "file->quit" seems to cause a crash over 50% of the time | 00:31 |
| ali1234 | so even if you disabled window restore in prefs, the windows always come back | 00:31 |
| lcuk | not my experience | 00:31 |
| ali1234 | the only time i quit firefox is when it runs slow because i have too many windows | 00:31 |
| * lcuk rarely has firefox crash | 00:31 | |
| ali1234 | and it's annoying when i load it up again and allthe windows come back | 00:32 |
| ali1234 | so i have to disable window restore on crash too | 00:32 |
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| ali1234 | browser.sessionstore.resume_from_crash is the option | 00:33 |
| ali1234 | browser.sessionstore.max_resumed_crashes is number of crashes before it asks i guess | 00:33 |
| xplt | ali1234: download blob, unpack it somewhere, run and be happy! \o/ | 00:33 |
| ali1234 | what blob? | 00:34 |
| xplt | ali1234: for mozilla's site [not from ubuntu' repo] | 00:34 |
| ali1234 | why? | 00:34 |
| ali1234 | i'll probably just switch to chromium when 3.x is no longer supported | 00:35 |
| ali1234 | might as well use chromium, than a bad rip of of the chromium UI | 00:35 |
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| timeless_w7ip | it isn't necessarily the shortest way, but mine is more fun :) | 00:46 |
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| CosmoHill | for some reason my XP VM is coping much better than my laptop | 00:48 |
| CosmoHill | I can't figure out how to get IE6 to run it without asking me for permission each instance and FF 3.6.15 opens 40 of them and then disables pop-ups | 00:49 |
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| lcuk | oooh one of pals from another channel is building an animatronic bird, I only clicked today how if she skinned that correctly it could be one of the Angry Birds characters for a display http://twitpic.com/4dq0ed | 05:20 |
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| cherrot | I'm using Ubuntu10.10. Why can't I install meego SDK through HTTP proxy(connection failed)? | 09:07 |
| cherrot | I can update my OS and browse web via my proxy. | 09:07 |
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| cherrot | I'm using Ubuntu10.10. Why can't I install meego SDK through HTTP proxy(connection failed)??? | 09:39 |
| cherrot | I can update my OS and browse web via my proxy. | 09:39 |
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| maztermin | morning | 10:16 |
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| Stskeeps | thiago_home: i've started reviewing presentations btw | 11:15 |
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| Stskeeps | morn andre__ | 11:20 |
| andre__ | Stskeeps, heja! | 11:25 |
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| iekku | morning | 11:49 |
| Stskeeps | morn iekku | 11:49 |
| iekku | took a while to understand why clocks aren't in same time in here | 11:51 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 11:51 |
| iekku | "what is wrong with my computer?" | 11:52 |
| Stskeeps | "am i so tired that time and space is falling apart around me?" | 11:52 |
| iekku | Stskeeps, btw my win laptop works again, it was just too scared of all the open source people :D | 11:52 |
| iekku | Stskeeps, yes :D | 11:52 |
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| pavlix | hi, what is the best way to build against meego 1.0 and meego community 1.0 repos in OBS? | 12:22 |
| lbt | pavlix: select the correct target | 12:22 |
| lbt | so go to your home | 12:23 |
| lbt | (or a sub proj) | 12:23 |
| lbt | click Repositories | 12:23 |
| lbt | Add | 12:23 |
| lbt | ah, I see | 12:23 |
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| pavlix | lbt: where do I get the community ones? | 12:26 |
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| pavlix | ah, I probably know :) | 12:26 |
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| lbt | there are no community repos yet | 12:26 |
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| pavlix | yep | 12:26 |
| lbt | you mean Surrounds? the extra libs etc | 12:26 |
| pavlix | that's why I don't see them | 12:26 |
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| lbt | we'll probably set them up soon | 12:26 |
| pavlix | I've found some on the wiki | 12:26 |
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| lbt | so... add "MeeGo 1.1 Netbook" | 12:27 |
| pavlix | (I hope it also works for 1.0) | 12:28 |
| lbt | and then go to Raw Config | 12:28 |
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| lbt | and edit the path to change 1.1 to 1.0 | 12:28 |
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| lbt | then, if it works, I'll add it | 12:28 |
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| pavlix | lbt: I already have a basic 1.0 netbook repository added | 12:29 |
| pavlix | just without the community part | 12:29 |
| lbt | does that build OK ? | 12:29 |
| pavlix | btw, what's this: http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Repo ? | 12:29 |
| pavlix | lbt: yep | 12:29 |
| pavlix | lbt: I've been using it for at least a week | 12:30 |
| pavlix | https://build.pub.meego.com/project/show?project=home%3Apavlix | 12:30 |
| lbt | it's "random binaries downloaded from the internet" :) | 12:30 |
| pavlix | ah :) | 12:30 |
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| lbt | that's a bit harsh really | 12:31 |
| pavlix | lbt: actually, what I need is to get multimedia libs, like libmss-devel | 12:31 |
| lbt | they mean well | 12:31 |
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| lbt | but since MeeGo is all about fragmented communication .... | 12:31 |
| pavlix | I either start adding these one by one to my repo... or use some repository | 12:31 |
| lbt | yep... I understand that | 12:32 |
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| pavlix | lbt: ok, what's your suggestion? :) | 12:34 |
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| lbt | what do you want? a quick hack or something that will last for more than a year or so? | 12:35 |
| pavlix | lbt: the latter if it's not too time-consuming, otherwise the former :) | 12:37 |
| lbt | we're working on the latter... however... if more people spend time on the quick hack, the longer it takes... | 12:38 |
| pavlix | let's say I'm delivering my prototype on wednesday :) | 12:39 |
| pavlix | so if we're talking about weeks, I need the quick hack :) | 12:39 |
| lbt | prototype=quick hack | 12:39 |
| pavlix | exactly | 12:40 |
| lbt | but if you think you want anything reliable then that repo should not be considered part of the solution | 12:40 |
| pavlix | ok | 12:40 |
| lbt | so you should factor in a managed areas of shared libs etc as part of your solution | 12:40 |
| lbt | be clear about what you take from the c_repo and recognise that those libs need maintaining | 12:41 |
| pavlix | I could still do the handwork variant | 12:41 |
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| lbt | you will need to do that | 12:41 |
| lbt | but if you do it in Surrounds | 12:41 |
| lbt | you'll get support and are more likely to get help | 12:41 |
| lbt | especially for important mmedia libs/apps | 12:42 |
| pavlix | ok | 12:42 |
| lbt | Surrounds also is likely to be a proving ground into core | 12:42 |
| lbt | it's also not compliant | 12:42 |
| lbt | ok .. bbiab | 12:43 |
| jbos_away | hi lbt | 12:44 |
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| jbos_away | any further success in team spaces on obs ? | 12:45 |
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| pavlix | meego surrounds seems to be rather unknown yet | 12:51 |
| Venemo | good morning guys | 12:52 |
| pavlix | ah, all these repos are empty! | 12:53 |
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| pavlix | btw, who is zigbee? | 12:55 |
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| Stskeeps | moo wazd | 13:20 |
| pavlix | hmm, I thought it was possible to branch meego projects | 13:21 |
| Stskeeps | it is, from command line | 13:21 |
| pavlix | hmm, let's learn the command line :) | 13:21 |
| lbt | jbos_away: same thing - propose one, explain why it's needed and how it'll be managed | 13:21 |
| Stskeeps | pavlix: osc branch MeeGo.com:Trunk acl for instance | 13:22 |
| pavlix | lbt: I see there's nothing in the Surrounds... so I'd like to go for zigbee's community repo which seems to be the only non-manual option now | 13:23 |
| pavlix | and it's already prepared :) | 13:23 |
| pavlix | so if you need to fill Surrounds, you have where to take from :) | 13:23 |
| pavlix | (same for Apps) | 13:23 |
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| CosmoHill | morning | 13:25 |
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| pavlix | CosmoHill: hi | 13:25 |
| lbt | pavlix: sure - my point is that if you release a 'product' based on zibee's repo then you'll get bitten eventually | 13:26 |
| pavlix | Stskeeps: thanks | 13:26 |
| lbt | of course it's the right thing to use for a prototype for next week | 13:26 |
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| pavlix | lbt: actually, I am curious why is zigbee's work getting to Surround/Apps or what blocks getting there some packages for the beginning | 13:27 |
| lbt | however there are no security checks, no-one maintains it, there's no QA ... it's just like building cool stuff by dumpster diving... great for one-off but not exactly reliable in the long term | 13:27 |
| lbt | pavlix: read this http://mer-l-in.blogspot.com/2011/01/meego-community-development-apps.html | 13:28 |
| lbt | all of it | 13:28 |
| pavlix | lbt: thanks | 13:28 |
| * pavlix dives deep in reading | 13:28 | |
| lbt | it's not a simple thing ... and of course there is a balance to be struck | 13:28 |
| lbt | zigbee is at the chaotic end .. I think we need something that is more formal but still quite responsive | 13:29 |
| lbt | my quality/process aim is probably lower than almost any other major distro | 13:30 |
| ali1234 | do you count gentoo as a major distro? | 13:30 |
| CosmoHill | I'm I correct in thinking that pavlix has a package in his RPM repo that relieses on someone else's package in their repo? | 13:30 |
| pavlix | CosmoHill: not exactly | 13:30 |
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| CosmoHill | ali1234: Gentoo is like Ikea | 13:31 |
| pavlix | CosmoHill: to be more precise, it depends funcionally, not build | 13:31 |
| pavlix | CosmoHill: I like Ikea :) | 13:31 |
| ali1234 | it's more like mfi | 13:32 |
| CosmoHill | the last time I went to Ikea it was stuck in the back of the car lend over cos my parents bought a big desk | 13:32 |
| CosmoHill | pavlix: so his package provides something your package needs | 13:34 |
| pavlix | CosmoHill: yep | 13:34 |
| CosmoHill | you could either contact the guy to make sure the package is available for you or you could copy his .spec file into your repo and built it for yourself | 13:34 |
| pavlix | CosmoHill: probably many things | 13:34 |
| CosmoHill | the issue with the latter is that there are two copies of the package by different people | 13:35 |
| pavlix | CosmoHill: let's say I need gst-plugins-bad (apart from other stuff)... it depends on lots of -devel packages | 13:35 |
| CosmoHill | are you building locally or on the OBS? | 13:35 |
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| pavlix | CosmoHill: in the OBS, except some closed-source stuff | 13:36 |
| CosmoHill | might be an idea to get in contact with the guy, that way if you do need to move his packages into your repo he can help you | 13:38 |
| * CosmoHill goes to do his work he was meant to do last week | 13:39 | |
| pavlix | it might be | 13:43 |
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| lbt | pavlix: could you try something for me | 13:46 |
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| lbt | remove the <path repository="standard" project="MeeGo:1.0:Core"/> from your 1.0_core_netbook entry here: https://build.pub.meego.com/project/meta?project=home%3Apavlix | 13:47 |
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| lbt | I added that path to the Netbook repo so it should get it from there | 13:47 |
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| pavlix | lbt: sure | 13:49 |
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| PatrickBic | can i somehow get conman to support wpa2 based networks using peap and mschapv2? | 13:55 |
| pavlix | lbt: I did, it looks ok, but I'm not sure | 13:56 |
| PatrickBic | i am trying to get a working wpa_supplicant conf file but havent been lucky so far.. :( | 13:56 |
| pavlix | and I lost Fedora14 target somehow | 13:56 |
| lbt | pavlix: trigger a rebuild of clutter? | 13:56 |
| lbt | the fedora thing may be because opensuse is down at the moment | 13:57 |
| lbt | https://api.opensuse.org/ | 13:57 |
| pavlix | ok | 13:57 |
| pavlix | lbt: I would... but I don't see a way to do that | 13:57 |
| pavlix | apart from changing the files ;) | 13:58 |
| pavlix | but I'm sure it was somewhere | 13:59 |
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| lbt | go to the build log | 14:01 |
| pavlix | ah, there it is :) | 14:03 |
| pavlix | lbt: I don't see any effect of it | 14:04 |
| pavlix | no rebuilding | 14:04 |
| PatrickBic | no way to do this? :( | 14:11 |
| thiago_home | Stskeeps: I will during the week | 14:12 |
| pavlix | btw... I can't use osc because of some certificate related errors | 14:12 |
| jbos_away | lbt, ye i must admit that it is hard to write this team obs proposal. | 14:13 |
| jbos_away | :) | 14:13 |
| lbt | jbos_away: don't overdo it ... | 14:13 |
| jbos_away | i actually made some notes but got my self stuck and in need to learn lot more about all this to get somewhere reasonable | 14:13 |
| jbos_away | (also working in fennec and peregrine kept me busy :) ) | 14:14 |
| jbos_away | so did anything actually change on the situation? or is it still exactly the same? | 14:15 |
| lbt | not much changed ... but I think maybe I was asking for too much without thinking it through | 14:16 |
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| lbt | just some common sense things : who's involved, what the project scope is | 14:17 |
| jbos_away | what i thought was that at first it should be really simple - complexity will come with the time. it should definitly be in some relationship with an upstream project, so at least an ok by some responsible person should be needed | 14:18 |
| jbos_away | so not that i can just make and Team KDE project and nobody from KDE knows about it | 14:18 |
| jbos_away | this would be contraproductive | 14:18 |
| jbos_away | you might want to have somekind of submission form, with contact data, maintainer, project name, names of people who can commit/push packages. | 14:19 |
| PatrickBic | is there some way to get an openssh server onto meego (beside compiling it on my own)? | 14:20 |
| Stskeeps | PatrickBic: zypper in openssh-server | 14:20 |
| jbos_away | there should be resonable (but not to complicated) way to ensure that a team is real. | 14:21 |
| jbos_away | one of the bigger questions i wondered - as you did too, is testing. | 14:21 |
| jbos_away | of course it is going to be quite important to ensure quality and stability. But indeed it is really complicated to do so. | 14:22 |
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| jbos_away | (not impossible). So you might need somehow to trust. Or need a QA Team. Something like a Beta Repository and a "Stable" Repository or so. | 14:25 |
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| jbos_away | but well second thought on that was, its maybe a bit out of scope. for now we are not actually talking about a community "store", just a team space. So you might can life with simple selfresponsibility of every team | 14:26 |
| jbos_away | I mean - what is the minimal propose such Team Areas should achive? | 14:27 |
| jbos_away | it is (for my opinion) about giving teams the ability to push packages in a more visible and searchable place. | 14:28 |
| jbos_away | so its better than some random user home directory | 14:29 |
| jbos_away | :) | 14:29 |
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| jbos_away | lbt? | 14:31 |
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| pavlix | lbt: bad news is that I couldn't trigger clutter rebuild (why?), good news is that new packages build even after the change | 14:33 |
| pavlix | lbt: Stskeeps: CosmoHill: thanks for help, I'm resolving my dependencies by osc-branching from home:zigbee | 14:34 |
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| jbos_away | lbt, so for a start take it simple as possible, such a team space is not more than a directory with the teams/project name. You simply create those on request of those team (no submaintainer) and connect it (if this is possible) directly with a meego user | 14:46 |
| jbos_away | you check this request is really by the team by (at first) simply trust that the person. If its wrong - than people will always complain | 14:48 |
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| PatrickBic | can i somehow get a "lock screen" icon into the meego-top-bar ? (using meego as a tablet-os) | 15:41 |
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| PatrickBic | ok managed to do a "gnome-screensaver-command --lock" to get some lock screen | 15:53 |
| PatrickBic | but no on-screen-keyboard there | 15:53 |
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| pavlix | I found that some packages are branches of e.g. Meego:1.1:Core | 16:28 |
| pavlix | how can I make a branch of another package? | 16:28 |
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| pavlix | or get a spec file at least? | 16:32 |
| pavlix | (ping lbt) | 16:32 |
| Stskeeps | i usually branch from MeeGo.com:Trunk | 16:32 |
| pavlix | btw, is there a way to delete packages from cmdline? | 16:33 |
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| lcuk | pavlix, I am sure some combination of rm -rf should suffice, just be careful of specifics | 16:34 |
| lcuk | but in general zypper has package management stuff ;) | 16:34 |
| pavlix | lcuk: I mean from OBS | 16:35 |
| pavlix | Stskeeps: MeeGo:Trunk works, thanks | 16:36 |
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| PatrickBic | no gesture-lock-.screen or keyboard there? :( | 16:38 |
| Stskeeps | pavlix: what are you testing | 16:39 |
| Stskeeps | er | 16:39 |
| Stskeeps | PatrickBic: | 16:39 |
| PatrickBic | netbook version 1.1 | 16:39 |
| Stskeeps | ah, it's not really a tablet thing :P | 16:39 |
| Stskeeps | it's a netbook user interface | 16:39 |
| Stskeeps | if you want a tablet ui, grab that image | 16:39 |
| pavlix | Stskeeps: I'm trying to get gst-plugins-bad working on MeeGo 1.0 in a recent version | 16:39 |
| PatrickBic | my tablet has almost 12" and an atom :P | 16:40 |
| Stskeeps | pavlix: ok | 16:40 |
| PatrickBic | thats why i had choosen the netbok interface | 16:40 |
| Stskeeps | pavlix: can i dare to ask why anyone would want to base anything on 1.0? :P | 16:40 |
| Stskeeps | PatrickBic: yes, so does the tablets :P | 16:40 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: More importantly, does table UI come with a usable library of qtquick UI components? | 16:40 |
| PatrickBic | Stskeeps, what does it? :$ | 16:40 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: yes, actually | 16:40 |
| pavlix | Stskeeps: because I have a MeeGo 1.0 box :) | 16:40 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: are there any docs online already? | 16:40 |
| RST38h | pavlix: Upgrade to a later version, no? =) | 16:41 |
| pavlix | Stskeeps: I have not yet got instructions for upgrade | 16:41 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: uncertain, they just started publishing the stuff :P | 16:41 |
| pavlix | Stskeeps: there may be some customization to the particular hardware | 16:41 |
| pavlix | Stskeeps: I got it preinstalled | 16:41 |
| pavlix | Stskeeps: and I'm not familiar with RedBood either | 16:41 |
| Stskeeps | pavlix: ok, sounds like a weird piece of hw :) | 16:42 |
| Stskeeps | is that x86 or ARM? | 16:42 |
| pavlix | Stskeeps: x86 | 16:42 |
| Stskeeps | ok | 16:42 |
| PatrickBic | Stskeeps, any hint on how to get it done with the netbook version? :P | 16:42 |
| pavlix | Stskeeps: actually, I have information that 1.1 won't be supported at all | 16:42 |
| pavlix | Stskeeps: they're skipping it :) | 16:42 |
| Stskeeps | pavlix: can't blame them | 16:42 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 16:42 |
| Stskeeps | PatrickBic: "give up and install tablet ux" | 16:42 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 16:42 |
| PatrickBic | haha ^^ | 16:42 |
| Stskeeps | i'm not kidding | 16:43 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 16:43 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: the thought of this thing working reliably on N900 (or a different mobile device, like a Galaxy Tab or a Streak) makes me smile uncontrollably =) | 16:43 |
| PatrickBic | but why would a netbook interface have such big controls? | 16:43 |
| Stskeeps | PatrickBic: designer madness | 16:44 |
| pavlix | Stskeeps: as it stands, I'm probably not upgrading before MeeGo 1.2 is out :) | 16:44 |
| PatrickBic | http://meego.com/devices/handset/handset-screenshots <- you are suggesting this image? | 16:44 |
| Stskeeps | PatrickBic: no, search for intel tablet ux | 16:45 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: i do have pretty nice hopes for this stuff, yes | 16:45 |
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| PatrickBic | http://appdeveloper.intel.com/en-us/blog/2011/02/06/hands-meego-tablet-12-alpha-exopc <- | 16:45 |
| PatrickBic | Stskeeps, hmm.. base system is the same, but UI differs? | 16:46 |
| Stskeeps | right | 16:46 |
| PatrickBic | and i have to reinstall or am i able to keep my system? | 16:47 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: saw the video yet? | 16:48 |
| RST38h | STskeeps: yea, but like the still image better :) | 16:48 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 16:49 |
| RST38h | Video does show a few glitches incompatible with normal usage | 16:49 |
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| Stskeeps | yeah | 16:49 |
| Stskeeps | well, considering the thing got released friday, we had it running in proto 2 hours after and image 6 hours after, then it's pretty early to make anything conclusive ;) | 16:49 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: I am even more interested in getting this run on [formerly] Android devices | 16:50 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: problem is GLES as usual | 16:50 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: Yea =( | 16:50 |
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| RST38h | Stskeeps: But I think lardman got GLES to work at least on Galaxies | 16:50 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: Looks like Streak is out of the question though (no GLES drivers, slow GLES to begin with) | 16:51 |
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| lcuk | RST38h, didn't I hear that 2d qml was to be used in ubuntu? | 16:54 |
| lcuk | would gles even be a requirement? | 16:54 |
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| RST38h | lcuk: for meego ui it is a requirement | 16:58 |
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| lcuk | RST38h, is the 2d version going to based on a different qml then? | 17:02 |
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| RST38h | dunno. I suspect that what they call "2d" is still using GLES for effects | 17:02 |
| lcuk | RST38h, http://developer.qt.nokia.com/forums/viewthread/3214 | 17:04 |
| pavlix | opensource obs seems to be back | 17:04 |
| lcuk | "The “Unity 2D” desktop is to provide a Unity environment without the need for OpenGL or any accelerated graphics drivers, but is built using Qt and QML. " | 17:04 |
| alterego | Qml is a 2D rendered scene | 17:04 |
| pavlix | new packages build for Fedora 14 now, but older packages got stuck in the broken phase | 17:04 |
| alterego | lcuk: that's interesting. | 17:04 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Weeeelll... it is Unity... | 17:05 |
| lcuk | alterego, it is not the scene or language of the toolkit that I am talking about | 17:05 |
| lcuk | it is the mechanism to render it | 17:05 |
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| lcuk | that perked | 17:05 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Do you really want that? | 17:05 |
| lcuk | RST38h, you just asked about getting the tablet UX on current androidy devices | 17:05 |
| alterego | Sure, and Qml doesn't require hw acceleration but obviously works much better with it :) | 17:05 |
| lcuk | if the tablet ux could work with the same 2d version of qml | 17:05 |
| lcuk | then it happens | 17:05 |
| lcuk | since getting the 3d drivers is something I hear about many people facepalming | 17:06 |
| alterego | Qml doesn't require GL .. | 17:06 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Maybe I am an idiot,but... | 17:06 |
| RST38h | lcuk: I think thiago claimed at some point that you do not need GLES to render Qt | 17:06 |
| alterego | You don'tg | 17:07 |
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| alterego | You have to set it up specifically to use opengl if you want to use it .. | 17:07 |
| PatrickBic | Stskeeps, and that pre alpha is stable enough for using it? | 17:07 |
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| lcuk | :) | 17:11 |
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| lcuk | RST38h, that article certainly suggests that the ubuntu desktop will be QML on Arm device where currently the 3d drivers are not available. assuming it works it puts Ubuntu into places that MeeGo cannot currently go. | 17:15 |
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| RST38h | lcuk: Yes, but you have to consider other things | 17:17 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Ubuntu has got quite a heavy footprint, it may not run well on any resource constrained ARM device | 17:18 |
| RST38h | lcuk: And once they get it running, where do they get the mobile applications suit? | 17:19 |
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| alterego | RST38h: worked for them on netbook :P | 17:19 |
| RST38h | So, until they show something interesting in that direction, forget about Ubuntu outside netbooks | 17:19 |
| alterego | I don't think ubuntu is that "heavy" | 17:19 |
| RST38h | alterego: A netbook is just a slow, cheap laptop. Of course it worked for them on netbooks | 17:20 |
| alterego | No more heavy than MeeGois, which I think is heavy for a mobile :P | 17:20 |
| RST38h | alterego: Maybe, we will have to see | 17:20 |
| lcuk | RST38h, I never said anything about what worked, you think that, not me. I merely pointed out about QML desktop working without 3d drivers. | 17:20 |
| lcuk | all the same points about mobile apps suite and stuff counts equally right here in meego. | 17:20 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Yeah, no doubt it will work | 17:21 |
| RST38h | lcuk: If I understand correctly, Meego will come with a basic apps suite (phone, address book, gallery, camera, etc) | 17:21 |
| RST38h | lcuk: No such suite for UBuntu at the moment | 17:21 |
| * lcuk nods | 17:22 | |
| alterego | meego ux doesn't really have any of that yet either :P | 17:23 |
| alterego | Well, no phoneui | 17:23 |
| alterego | Or address book | 17:23 |
| RST38h | akterego: But you are working on it, ain't you? ;) | 17:24 |
| lcuk | RST38h, I believe sabotage got himself a rather sturdy bullwhip during last week | 17:24 |
| RST38h | hehe :) | 17:25 |
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| * RST38h fully expects the fun of watching Meego vs Ubuntu mobile battle | 17:26 | |
| RST38h | Stocked on popcorn, etc. | 17:26 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: well, one advantage ubuntu has is that everything linaro produced is already hw adaptation for ubuntu :P | 17:27 |
| lcuk | are linaro upstream to meego then? | 17:27 |
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| Stskeeps | lcuk: yeah, technically | 17:28 |
| Stskeeps | but needs repackaging | 17:28 |
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| alterego | ubuntu are certainly more open :D | 17:29 |
| alterego | for the most part. | 17:29 |
| RST38h | they model on Ubuntu? | 17:29 |
| lcuk | a £5 stripper is more open too, but you generally don't take her home to meet the parents. | 17:29 |
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| alterego | Heh | 17:29 |
| RST38h | Heh, N900 stuck with the red recording light after abruptly stopped Skype call. | 17:30 |
| * lcuk adds more mechanics to differentgame and tries to work out how to make a new git repo on github | 17:31 | |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: yeah.. "reference distribution" or somethig like that | 17:31 |
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| lcuk | RST38h, the basic app suite does not worry me so much | 17:37 |
| lcuk | it is how we make the expanded set of thigns to cater for varying usecases | 17:37 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Have to have a basic app set first or nobody will use it, even geeks | 17:39 |
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| lcuk | RST38h, N900 Developer Edition is heading that way already | 17:41 |
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| CosmoHill | speaking of geeks, did you know the game Zork is inside Call of Duty: Black Ops | 18:20 |
| lcuk | there are a number of easter eggs in CoD | 18:21 |
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| CosmoHill | lcuk: CoD:BO says it's 4 player split-screen but we can't get that to work | 18:32 |
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| CosmoHill | timeless_w7ip: I've tweaked that javascript loop a little | 19:19 |
| CosmoHill | I managed to put it into a link in a blog comment | 19:19 |
| GAN900 | Split screen is impossible anyway. | 19:21 |
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| lcuk | GAN900, why? | 19:22 |
| lcuk | old computers managed split screen happily :O | 19:22 |
| * lcuk sees alien discussion around | 19:23 | |
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| * Myrtti ♥ terminator | 19:24 | |
| Myrtti | (https://launchpad.net/terminator) | 19:24 |
| lcuk | when a slide button/toggle thingy is visually saying the word "on" (but in faded blue) is that actually the "on" state? | 19:25 |
| thiago_home | we had nice discussions on those toggly things | 19:25 |
| lcuk | or do I have to slide the toggle over to it to indicate "on" | 19:26 |
| thiago_home | whether seeing "on" means it's on or that it becomes on when you move the lever there | 19:26 |
| lcuk | yes, it is certainly ambiguous | 19:26 |
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| lcuk | thiago_home, something like this is how I always see these things: http://liqbase.net/liq.20100920_042834.liqflow_run1.scr.png | 19:27 |
| lcuk | (though not in the screenshot there are others which just have yes/no | 19:27 |
| lcuk | thiago_home, the slider is a step backwards, can it be themed out to become a checkbox? | 19:29 |
| lcuk | ie, someone could make a user friendly version of checkbox and include it in a theme | 19:29 |
| thiago_home | I don't know | 19:30 |
| lcuk | ohhhhh | 19:31 |
| lcuk | it is doubly double because you have to press on the word to actually do the slide toggly thing anyway | 19:32 |
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| lcuk | thereby making user look silly actually trying to grab the nobble | 19:32 |
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| lcuk | thiago_home, since you discussed this already, which is On/Enabled/True/Yes/Good positive state? | 19:35 |
| lcuk | is it when the word "On" is displayed | 19:35 |
| lcuk | or when the word "Off" is displayed | 19:35 |
| thiago_home | lcuk: I think it's the state when it has a blue or green colour | 19:36 |
| thiago_home | and it does show "On" | 19:36 |
| * lcuk ponders making a QML wotsit to actually put a little green LED next to the slide switch | 19:36 | |
| lcuk | which goes dim when it is off and lights up when it is on | 19:36 |
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| lcuk | sussed it thiago_home :) the bold blue part of the nobble remains whether it is on or off! | 19:38 |
| lcuk | that is what is different to other sliding toggles on alternative uis | 19:38 |
| * lcuk washes hands from searching for iphone | 19:39 | |
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| CosmoHill | is it ironic that when reading an online presentation giving in flash about how javascript is bad | 19:45 |
| CosmoHill | that it goes ape and eats my processor? | 19:45 |
| CosmoHill | given* | 19:46 |
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| GAN900 | lcuk, you can't see well enough to play effectively. | 19:51 |
| lcuk | GAN900, hm? which 4 player game specifically | 19:52 |
| lcuk | and what resolution are you running game at overall? | 19:52 |
| lcuk | because I recall playing co-op games at least 2 player on 320*240 full screen afaik | 19:52 |
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| * CosmoHill prefers split screen multiplayer over online gaming | 19:55 | |
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| lcuk | CosmoHill, strongly depends on the game and number of local players you have | 19:56 |
| CosmoHill | I'd say it's more to do with my attitude, when I play with my friends I actually want to be with them | 19:57 |
| Myrtti | MINECRAAAAFFFFTTTTT | 19:57 |
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| lcuk | thiago_home, also from a brightness perspective, the word "Off" being in black is actually bolder and stands out more than the pale blue (on grey) "On". | 20:00 |
| * lcuk hmms muchly | 20:00 | |
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| taso | hi every one...is possible that meego can affect my atheros card signal??? because it's so poor and disconnecting me every time I use the Internet....but when I boot XP in the same place I have very good signal...does anyone knows what happening ? | 20:06 |
| jonnor | The driver can affect how good the signal _reception_ is, sure. | 20:07 |
| lcuk | taso, what signal strength do you get on the different operating systems? | 20:08 |
| CosmoHill | could it be power settings affecting it? | 20:08 |
| * lcuk only ever gets high 90s percentages at home unless I head into the bathroom with laptop | 20:08 | |
| CosmoHill | I.E. MeeGo is putting the card into low power mode for some reason | 20:08 |
| taso | with meego is about -67 | 20:09 |
| taso | with XP is double | 20:10 |
| taso | CosmoHill u have the same issue yeah? | 20:10 |
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| lcuk | -134% ? | 20:10 |
| CosmoHill | taso: no but I know there is a large difference in speed between balanced and power saving when my laptop is on the battery | 20:11 |
| taso | ops sry no I mean is about 90 -95... | 20:11 |
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| taso | Is very strange because I have to be maximum 5 meter from the router | 20:12 |
| taso | and thes its stops to disc. | 20:13 |
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| lcuk | taso, ok so you are not in a marginal area - what kind of encryption settings are on the router | 20:13 |
| lcuk | and specifically what traffic goes over your network? | 20:13 |
| lcuk | our router crashes whenever all the machines try doing high bandwidth downloads | 20:13 |
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| lcuk | me with meego images, luke with 1080 youtube bmx videos and tracy with facebook | 20:14 |
| CosmoHill | lcuk: my mate crashes his BT business hub a lot | 20:15 |
| taso | the encryption is WPA and when u say traffic u mean What is connect to the router usually? | 20:15 |
| CosmoHill | I blame the 10Mb/s hub they're connected to | 20:15 |
| lcuk | taso, what is going over hte router | 20:15 |
| lcuk | do you have uber download app running on meego that is not on windows for instance | 20:15 |
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| taso | Sry mate what u mean by saying going over ??? :/ | 20:18 |
| taso | the router* | 20:18 |
| lcuk | taso, yes, when you have your router connected, do you flood the network with traffic | 20:18 |
| lcuk | or is it idle most of the time and still crashing | 20:18 |
| taso | ooooo ok ...When is idle it's ok...but when I start use the internet with meego netbook it's starts... | 20:20 |
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| GAN900 | lcuk, any of the modern shooters. 1080p | 20:20 |
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| lcuk | GAN900, right, so 960*512 per person is not reasonable resolution for local co-op mode? | 20:21 |
| taso | I also connect to the router about 4 pc's to do traffic to see if start the same | 20:21 |
| lcuk | the graphics card in my windows pc cannot run halflife at that single resolution, let alone 4 of them | 20:21 |
| taso | but no...only when I use it , its start to disc,,, | 20:22 |
| lcuk | taso, next time it fails, check contents of dmesg | 20:22 |
| lcuk | it may give you clue as to why it failed | 20:22 |
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| taso | I can do it know...can I tell u what it says? | 20:23 |
| lcuk | you can, but it won't mean much to me. | 20:23 |
| lcuk | and taso, could you sing the contents rather than just pasting them here. | 20:24 |
| lcuk | if you cannot sing, then use a pastebin instead. | 20:24 |
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| taso | what mean Calling CRDA to update world regulatory domain? | 20:29 |
| taso | it trying to get IP? | 20:30 |
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| timeless_xchat | taso: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=crda+world+regulatory+domain | 20:39 |
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| taso | haha...ok mate :) | 20:40 |
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| ali1234 | that google search isn't particularly helpful | 20:44 |
| ali1234 | in a nutshell, crda is a tool that tries to figure out where you are, then disables wireless channels you are not supposed to use in that location | 20:45 |
| ali1234 | it tries to be cautious and so very often gets it totally wrong | 20:46 |
| timeless_xchat | the wrong bit i didn't know | 20:46 |
| timeless_xchat | but i thought the rest was clear enough from the results page | 20:46 |
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| ali1234 | it's clear if you know what "regulatory compliance" means | 20:51 |
| ali1234 | so iow not very clear at all | 20:51 |
| ali1234 | and it gets it wrong because it looks at so many different places: the country code set in your wireless card, the country code of any hotspots in range, possibly other sources like gps/gsm... then it takes the intersection of all the allowed channels | 20:52 |
| ali1234 | so if there are some misconfigured aps near you... well, most often you just end up with only the globally allowed (and massively over used) channels | 20:53 |
| berndhs | and it picks the most expensive one ? | 20:53 |
| ali1234 | hmm i see it is still not clear | 20:54 |
| ali1234 | crda is only for wifi | 20:54 |
| berndhs | ah | 20:54 |
| ali1234 | it's purpose is to (for example) prevent you using channel 13 if you are in taiwan | 20:55 |
| ali1234 | but what actually happens is it prevents you from using channel 13 if you are in taiwan, have ever been to taiwan, own a wireless card that was made in taiwan, or attempt to connect to a router that was made in taiwan | 20:55 |
| ali1234 | not that i am bitter about spending 2 days trying to figure this stuff out or anything | 20:56 |
| ali1234 | and yeah, their website is really unhelpful | 20:56 |
| timeless_xchat | heh | 20:58 |
| lcuk | ok, so let us use this knowledge and ask.. | 20:58 |
| lcuk | taso - are you in a country where your wifi might be regulated and the linux system is adhering to the correct spec | 20:58 |
| lcuk | whilst the windows machine is not trying to avoid channels | 20:59 |
| timeless_xchat | why does crda bother telling users something they won't understand anyway? | 20:59 |
| lcuk | timeless_xchat, users would not look in dmesg normally? | 20:59 |
| timeless_xchat | in case you're curious, darwin has similar output | 21:00 |
| * lcuk makes a QML smesg app | 21:00 | |
| lcuk | dmesg ^ | 21:00 |
| timeless_xchat | and it's available as part of the boot process | 21:00 |
| taso | lcuk I am in the UK... | 21:01 |
| taso | but I buy it from other country of EU | 21:02 |
| timeless_xchat | darwin's output is friendlier | 21:02 |
| timeless_xchat | it says "i've decided you're in FI" more or less | 21:02 |
| taso | all of this is so strange...I wish i know all this technology | 21:03 |
| timeless_xchat | why bother? | 21:04 |
| timeless_xchat | do you wish to understand how your plumbing and sewage systems work? | 21:04 |
| timeless_xchat | some details are worth ignoring unless they're actually broken | 21:04 |
| timeless_xchat | i don't ask why my apartment doesn't collapse or catch fire | 21:05 |
| taso | yeah you are right... | 21:05 |
| taso | but when it's not working you try to find out why! | 21:06 |
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| timeless_xchat | the answers i get when i ask are in technical finnish | 21:07 |
| timeless_xchat | which doesn't help me | 21:07 |
| taso | how can see what is the latest driver for the atheros? maybe I downgrade or update the drivers? | 21:07 |
| taso | maybe I had* | 21:08 |
| timeless_xchat | what was your actual problem? | 21:08 |
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| timeless_xchat | a given access point will generally use a given channel | 21:09 |
| timeless_xchat | and a regulatory policy will either allow or prohibit use of that channel | 21:09 |
| timeless_xchat | as such if you can *ever* talk to an access point, it is incredibly unlikely to be a problem relating to the policy | 21:10 |
| taso | My problem is that I have poor signal with meego | 21:10 |
| timeless_xchat | unless you actually see the policy change repeatedly | 21:10 |
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| timeless_xchat | which doesn't seem to be the case | 21:10 |
| timeless_xchat | thus,... ignore that message | 21:10 |
| taso | :) | 21:10 |
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| timeless_xchat | have you ever run another OS or distro on this specific meego device? | 21:11 |
| timeless_xchat | e.g. Windows or Ubuntu | 21:11 |
| taso | yeah the netbook is dual boot meego xp | 21:11 |
| timeless_xchat | and how's the signal in XP? | 21:12 |
| taso | about 90% | 21:12 |
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| timeless_xchat | and w/ meego? | 21:14 |
| taso | with meego says me on the toolbar that I have 3 lines signal but when I start use the net its disc.. and connect again is sec | 21:14 |
| timeless_xchat | ali1234: i don't suppose there's a way to get a percent on meego? | 21:15 |
| taso | I don't know :( | 21:16 |
| ali1234 | a percent? | 21:16 |
| ali1234 | you mean like shift and 5? | 21:16 |
| taso | yeah | 21:16 |
| timeless_xchat | for signal strength :) | 21:16 |
| taso | of course | 21:16 |
| ali1234 | oh... hmm... doesn't it show you on the connections screen? | 21:16 |
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| ali1234 | you know... where you go when you first connect to a wifi | 21:17 |
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| ali1234 | i guess it's not really a percent | 21:17 |
| ali1234 | yeah it does | 21:18 |
| timeless_xchat | dunno, but i guess for comparison, a real number would be appreciated | 21:18 |
| timeless_xchat | gah, it's snowing here | 21:18 |
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| ali1234 | that will be a terminal job - iwlist wlan0 scan or something | 21:18 |
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| taso | I will try it now | 21:19 |
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| taso | signal level -53dBm | 21:22 |
| taso | quality 57/70 | 21:22 |
| taso | when I start to use it the signal level goes to 97 and the quality 15 :( | 21:24 |
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| Venemo | do I need to optify my packages for MeeGo? | 21:57 |
| Stskeeps | read compliance document | 21:58 |
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| tj83|mini | alright folks who wants to try and help me fix a meego install problem? First let me say that I have exhausted myself, I didnt even sleep last night, i'm desperate lol. | 22:28 |
| * thiago_home would suggest getting a good night of sleep first | 22:29 | |
| thiago_home | and I hope that you didn't sleep due to partying, not frustration in installing MeeGo | 22:29 |
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| tj83|mini | trying to install on an HP mini 5102. using USB/SD media, i tried everything. and the image creation seems bootable on everything except the mini 5102 for some ungodly reason. i been through every bios setting in the thig (not many) . so first question is..... has anyone had problems with HP based netbooks of this nature? | 22:30 |
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| tj83|mini | thiago_home, well, no it was purely meego install histeria | 22:31 |
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| Cosmo[PB] | wtf happened to the videolan.org website | 22:32 |
| jonnor | tj83|mini: I suspect the isolinux offset needs to be fixed | 22:32 |
| jonnor | lemme see if I can dig up a linky | 22:32 |
| berndhs | what happened to build.opensuse.org, down since yesterday it seems | 22:33 |
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| thiago_home | berndhs: opensuse.org? wrong channel? | 22:33 |
| tj83|mini | jonnor, interesting. plz (note the media boots on everythign but this unit) | 22:33 |
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| lcuk | tj83|mini, | 22:33 |
| lcuk | http://wiki.meego.com/Devices#Netbooks | 22:33 |
| lcuk | mentioned that the 5101 boots but needs wifi driver compiling | 22:34 |
| jonnor | tj83|mini: you should have searched the documentation: http://wiki.meego.com/Installing_MeeGo_on_the_HP_mini_5102 | 22:34 |
| lcuk | http://wiki.meego.com/Installing_MeeGo_on_the_HP_mini_5102 | 22:34 |
| lcuk | lol | 22:34 |
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| tj83|mini | i lcuk ..... laugh its ok, we'll see, I love you ty ty tyt ty lol | 22:34 |
| lcuk | and qgil also tried http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=894 | 22:35 |
| lcuk | tj83|mini, next time you think you will be up all night, perhaps you could try googling for the model name and meego ;) | 22:35 |
| tj83|mini | i'm gonna die if this works. | 22:35 |
| lcuk | please don't. | 22:35 |
| tj83|mini | lcuk, i promise you i googled till the eyeballs were ready to explode | 22:36 |
| lcuk | http://xkcd.com/349/ | 22:36 |
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| tj83|mini | dd is doing its thing, the isohybrid command ran without error. so looking good so far, know in a few min. | 22:39 |
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| tj83|mini | lcuk, yes, i have seen that very comic, and yes, it was one of those nights. | 22:40 |
| * Cosmo[PB] offers sandwiches | 22:40 | |
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| tj83|mini | so, do we think meego will get a broadcom driver going in its repo? having to re-compile driver every kernel update is going to stink just a little. | 22:42 |
| CosmoHill | tj83|mini: only if the driver is open source | 22:42 |
| Stskeeps | tj83|mini: tablet ux surprisingily worked on my ideapad | 22:42 |
| tj83|mini | ah i see, well being its rpm package based, can meego use anything from rpmfusion or similar? | 22:43 |
| timeless_w7ip | wah | 22:43 |
| * timeless_w7ip got mail from cron | 22:43 | |
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| CosmoHill | tj83|mini: http://slaine.org/_slaine/Meego_1.1_Wifi.html | 22:44 |
| tj83|mini | CosmoHill, nice..... zypper huh? i'm gonna have to break down and get friendly with it i guess. in opensuse i got a bad taste on zypper from regular yum use. | 22:45 |
| CosmoHill | Moblin used yum but MeeGo replaced it with zypper | 22:46 |
| CosmoHill | so MeeGo 1.0 has both | 22:46 |
| tj83|mini | and 1.1 still? | 22:47 |
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| CosmoHill | yum shouldn't be there and if it is you should ignore it | 22:47 |
| tj83|mini | brb, still here as tj83 | 22:48 |
| tj83|mini | time to see if this isohybrid deal works :) | 22:48 |
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| tj83_ | well, its not jamming up the post... good sign | 22:49 |
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| tj83_ | i'll be a son of a monkeys uncle. its gotta a bootloader! | 22:49 |
| tj83_ | and a desktop too! lcuk ty | 22:50 |
| lcuk | + thiago_home + jonnor + CosmoHill | 22:50 |
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| CosmoHill | hi | 22:51 |
| tj83_ | yes, ty all. | 22:51 |
| tj83_ | moving forward to the drivers :) | 22:51 |
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| lcuk | heh, on settings panes with the odd little On/Off toggles | 22:55 |
| lcuk | when you scroll them up and down the screen | 22:55 |
| lcuk | when they are partially onscreen and partially off, the nobble moves around | 22:56 |
| lcuk | just catching corner of eye and make int seem as if the options are auto changing and stuff | 22:56 |
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| tj83_ | feeling it out... its bit odd, but I picked the IVI version, interested in car-pc application. | 22:58 |
| tj83_ | like, I dont see the ability to multi-task so far in the IVI | 22:59 |
| timeless_w7ip | anyone here familiar w/ ima-ksign ? | 22:59 |
| timeless_w7ip | great, yet another linux kernel | 23:00 |
| timeless_w7ip | because we don't have enough | 23:00 |
| * timeless_w7ip really needs to write code to recgonize and handle this case | 23:02 | |
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| lcuk | tj83_, multitasking is enabled by pressing the button on your steering wheel after turning it 90 degress. | 23:02 |
| lcuk | until then, you must remain focused on web browsing whilst driving. | 23:03 |
| CosmoHill | timeless_w7ip: btw do you mind if I use that bit of javascript in my assignment? I'll reference you using your name if that's okay | 23:03 |
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| timeless_w7ip | cosmohill: feel free to reference timeless@gmail | 23:03 |
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| CosmoHill | okay | 23:04 |
| lcuk | w00t_, good indeed about gitorious actively trying! | 23:05 |
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| vgrade | lcuk, sry I've not managed to get anything done on the resolution issue. tablet ux and fried sdcards have taken my spare time this weekend. | 23:05 |
| lcuk | vgrade, I saw. | 23:05 |
| lcuk | shall find an alternative method to get preconfigured pinetrail image and run around the house checking on various machines | 23:06 |
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| jonni | Finally I've got most things running nicely in my Lenovo S10-3t Meego, Broadcom wifi works, Qt&Touch-drivers and even QML multitouch works :) | 23:08 |
| lcuk | vgrade, I have been sidetracked myself with the tablet stuff also. trying to work out wtf it is hiding performance | 23:09 |
| berndhs | I need an artiste to help with my color scheme http://img836.imageshack.us/i/5us.mp4 | 23:09 |
| vgrade | lcuk, I have a few X_PutImage errors which I'm investigating | 23:10 |
| * w00t_ copies his first image to sd | 23:10 | |
| vgrade | awards woot_ his mic2 medal | 23:12 |
| w00t_ | i swear, we should add achievements for meego development :-P | 23:12 |
| w00t_ | 'sent first mailing list post', 'opened first bug', 'wrestled mic2 into submission', .. | 23:12 |
| alterego | :) | 23:14 |
| alterego | Do we get rankings? | 23:14 |
| alterego | "MeeGo Novice" "MeeGo Private" "MeeGo Corporal" .. :) | 23:14 |
| w00t_ | nah, heirachy sucks | 23:15 |
| w00t_ | :P | 23:15 |
| alterego | Gives people something to work toward :P | 23:16 |
| RST38h | Meego General Antilles! | 23:16 |
| pavlix | what am I? :) :D | 23:16 |
| mikhas | vgrade, could you try out the autodetecting stuff for MeeGo Touch device profiles? | 23:16 |
| RST38h | a pavlix. | 23:16 |
| mikhas | s/could you/were you able to | 23:16 |
| lcuk | w00t_, 20 man raids into the QML caverns are fun! | 23:16 |
| pavlix | RST38h: that's a really special ranking :D | 23:16 |
| * w00t_ kicks his n900 for running out of charge | 23:17 | |
| lcuk | w00t_, I started today from a flat battery and have been on usb with it all day hmm | 23:17 |
| berndhs | i've worked with QML for 3 weeks and haven't even killed a small animal :) | 23:17 |
| w00t_ | lcuk: i've been nowhere near a charger all day, and the battery wasn't anywhere near full after last night | 23:18 |
| vgrade | mikhas, been a bit sidetracked by the tablet ux this weekend, and managed to brick a couple of sdcards in the process. Will give it a look this week | 23:18 |
| lcuk | w00t_, ahh | 23:18 |
| mikhas | ok, thanks | 23:18 |
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| Jartza | hmmh | 23:20 |
| lcuk | vgrade, if you could perhaps biuld an image with mikhas tweak in it, I can do the actual runover on the devices here | 23:20 |
| lcuk | build * | 23:20 |
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| Jartza | are the applications written with qt supposed to look like "meegoish" or just like "plain" qt apps? | 23:21 |
| Jartza | I tried on qemu (ia32 handset) and qt apps look quite rude, but mtf apps look ok | 23:21 |
| Jartza | but the documentation seems to say that I shouldn't use mtf directly :) | 23:21 |
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| vgrade | lcuk, you looking for an x86 image | 23:23 |
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| lcuk | yeah vgrade, I normally pickup the daily-testing pinetrail which seems to boot on numerous x86 devices | 23:24 |
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| lcuk | (lenovo ideapad, x200s, packard bell onetwo) so with various screen resolutions would make a good test | 23:25 |
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| mikhas | Jartza, yeah well, did you always listen to your parents when they told what to do and what not to do? | 23:25 |
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| lcuk | I did mikhas | 23:26 |
| lcuk | "do your best" :) | 23:26 |
| lcuk | "Don't eat the yellow snow" | 23:26 |
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| mikhas | "Don't use libraries that are freely available, easy to compile and do what you want. Because I said so." | 23:27 |
| Jartza | mikhas: yes, usually I did listen :) | 23:28 |
| mikhas | Jartza, you might have to wait for plain Qt support in MeeGo handhelds for quite a bit. The styling plugin that tries to imitate MeeGo Touch is in a poor state. | 23:28 |
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| thiago_home | it won't get much better | 23:29 |
| Jartza | What I want to know is how I'm _supposed_ to write code :) | 23:29 |
| Jartza | not maybe right now, but in future | 23:29 |
| Jartza | meaning, do I teach my students meego touch framework or just qt :) | 23:29 |
| thiago_home | just Qt | 23:29 |
| lcuk | just c++! | 23:29 |
| thiago_home | more importantly, QML. Don't teach them the QWidgets. | 23:30 |
| mikhas | With something like a community OBS, being lead by fears that MeeGo Touch would quickly go away are vastly overestimated. If you really want the MeeGo Touch look, then use it. If you find that QML suits you more, and you can live with the DIY mentality there, then go for that. | 23:30 |
| Jartza | thiago_home: and why not? | 23:30 |
| mikhas | Jartza, teach them C | 23:30 |
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| mikhas | C is easy enough yet you can do everything with is | 23:30 |
| Jartza | I already taught them C++ | 23:30 |
| pavlix | mikhas: and gobject :) | 23:30 |
| lcuk | :D Jartza | 23:31 |
| lcuk | Jartza, are you wanting to teach them on mobile platform or in desktops ? | 23:31 |
| Jartza | both | 23:31 |
| mikhas | Jartza, then thiago_home is right: show them a simple-to-use toolkit for some graphical stuff. | 23:32 |
| lcuk | :) good stuff | 23:32 |
| Jartza | although some focus is on mobile platforms due their employees :) | 23:32 |
| mikhas | if for example you choose to use Fremantle, on the N900, then the plain Qt story works reasonably well | 23:32 |
| Jartza | actually we've already covered the qt basics also | 23:33 |
| Jartza | and there's going to be some qml | 23:33 |
| Jartza | maybe I'll show them mtf too, but briefly | 23:34 |
| Jartza | and let them make the decision. | 23:34 |
| Jartza | oh well. 20 days is anyway quite short time :) | 23:34 |
| thiago_home | Jartza: the qwidgets will never be good enough for mobile | 23:34 |
| mikhas | show them OpenGL | 23:34 |
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| Jartza | thiago_home: so it will be MTF or QML? | 23:36 |
| mikhas | the augurs say the latter | 23:36 |
| thiago_home | Jartza: qml | 23:36 |
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| mikhas | Jartza, if you want them to learn something useful for their future then teach them about graphics on embedded devices. | 23:37 |
| mikhas | They can learn the latest trend in GUI programming themselves. | 23:37 |
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| Jartza | mikhas: I couldn't even if I wanted to :) | 23:38 |
| thiago_home | opengl if they can handle would be good | 23:38 |
| Jartza | the employees wouldn't agree with me anymore :) | 23:38 |
| ali1234 | not opengl 1.0 though :) | 23:38 |
| Jartza | I have a basic structure in courses I have to follow :) | 23:38 |
| thiago_home | opengl es 2.0 | 23:38 |
| Jartza | and opengl was specifically dropped from course contents | 23:38 |
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| Tronic | Jartza: Where are you teaching? | 23:41 |
| Jartza | I have my own company | 23:41 |
| Jartza | currently I'm teaching in this project called "Mobile Pro" | 23:41 |
| pavlix | Jartza: that's good | 23:41 |
| Jartza | companies hired 16 people and I'll train them for 20 days. | 23:42 |
| Jartza | http://firebay.fi/ | 23:42 |
| ali1234 | i still don't understand how i am supposed to write windows applications with QML | 23:42 |
| Jartza | and the project is http://mobilepro.fi/ (in finnish, sorry) :) | 23:42 |
| ali1234 | is it intended to eventually work like the *.ui xml files that qt creator generates? | 23:42 |
| MohammadAG | ui files are converted to .h files, which are included then compiled | 23:43 |
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| MohammadAG | QML UIs are interpretted | 23:43 |
| ali1234 | i mean from the developer pov | 23:43 |
| ali1234 | not how it works underneath | 23:43 |
| MohammadAG | in a way I guess | 23:44 |
| ali1234 | all i know is i never have to touch the uis | 23:44 |
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| berndhs | ali1234: i think the idea is that QML UIs are more dynamic, so you can't really draw them with a designer-like tool | 23:48 |
| mikhas | Jartza, in that case ... teach them Silverlight! | 23:48 |
| mikhas | SCNR | 23:48 |
| Jartza | :D | 23:48 |
| Jartza | sure thing | 23:48 |
| mikhas | but seriously, why not GL? | 23:48 |
| mikhas | or rather: why was it dropped from the lectures? | 23:49 |
| ali1234 | berndhs: i don't want dynamic UIs, i want windows, icons, mouse pointer | 23:49 |
| timeless_w7ip | mouse pointer sold separately | 23:49 |
| mikhas | dynamic mouse pointers only in the professional version | 23:49 |
| ali1234 | when i use creator i pretty much just use it to make the menu and the toolbar, and then inject the main view from C++ code | 23:49 |
| mikhas | others have to move the screen beneath the static pointer =p | 23:50 |
| mikhas | ali1234, there is tooling support for those QML components | 23:50 |
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| berndhs | i suppose you could hire a couple burly guys to hold down the dynamic UI | 23:51 |
| Jartza | mikhas: I don't know why it was dropped. | 23:52 |
| Jartza | maybe because we have a lot of subjects and little time | 23:52 |
| ali1234 | knowing low level opengl isn't that useful these days | 23:53 |
| ali1234 | i mean it's useful from an understanding POV, but it's unlikely you'll actually be writing it as an application developer | 23:53 |
| ali1234 | there's enough engines and wrappers for it | 23:53 |
| ali1234 | so unless you're actually writing a 3d engine you just don't need it | 23:54 |
| ali1234 | kind of like how you'll only be using C or assembly to write an OS kernel | 23:56 |
| ali1234 | it's useful, but a real deep understanding is only needed by specialists | 23:56 |
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| * CosmoHill thinks he needs a new keypad already | 23:58 | |
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