IRC log of #meego for Thursday, 2011-03-17

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lofty306	arfoll, just got a confirm that the tab that exopc uses is from Pegatron (asus) now to figure out how or where to get one.....exopc said may or june for the 3G one in canada/usa	00:36
lofty306	but by then the oaktrails may be out	00:37
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arfoll	lofty306, is wetab not available to the USA?	00:50
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thiago_home	no	00:50
arfoll	too bad	00:51
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thiago_home	get the exopc	00:51
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lofty306	arfoll, to date they say they only ship to gemany austria aand netherlandss	00:51
timeless_w7ip	ok, qt is now available :)	00:52
lofty306	exopc is in canada	00:52
arfoll	didn't know distribution was that limiteed	00:52
TSCHAKeee	where can I get the eXoPC?	00:53
lofty306	M$ , amazon	00:53
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lofty306	TSCHAKeee, M$ store & amazon	00:54
TSCHAKeee	is this it? http://www.amazon.com/10-2-Windows-Tablet-PC-Processor/dp/B004D6R9T2/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1300316038&sr=8-3	00:54
TSCHAKeee	it sure looks like pinetrail hardware	00:54
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lofty306	TSCHAKeee, http://www.exopc.com/en/where-to-buy.php	00:56
lofty306	it is	00:56
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TSCHAKeee	i do like how the exoPC has CrystalHD hardware	00:58
lofty306	maybe not amazon	00:59
lofty306	exopc is just a software dev the tablet is pegatronnnn	01:00
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lofty306	TSCHAKeee, arfoll http://www.ciaravibe.com/vibe-configurations-en.html us canada	01:12
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arfoll	looks familiar	01:12
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lofty306	yepyep pneview	01:12
arfoll	they even mention "EXOPC User Interface"	01:13
lofty306	yep	01:13
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lofty306	i was just checking all the exopc where to buy links	01:13
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lcuk	http://www.meegoexperts.com/2011/03/conceptual-meego-tablet-ui-pictures/ look pretty	02:43
* lcuk likes the handwritten todo list		02:45
pupnik	ayya	02:45
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timeless_w7ip	lcuk so, mxr.meego.com got a shiny front page addition :)	02:49
lcuk	nice timeless_w7ip - I saw you working on it earlier	02:50
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timeless_w7ip	afaik both gitorious.org roots should automatically update every day	02:50
timeless_w7ip	i'm not sure if they do, but i think they do	02:51
timeless_w7ip	i'm still poking around a bit w/ the repo version	02:51
timeless_w7ip	maybe sometime next week i'll be done w/ it	02:51
lcuk	nice indeed if so, I gather that is just a git pull?	02:51
timeless_w7ip	conceptually yes	02:51
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timeless_w7ip	practically it's an hg-git pull	02:51
w00t_	kaitlin__: ping :)	02:51
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lcuk	w00t_, when you come to Manchester, I can show you mywatch :)	02:52
timeless_w7ip	i /believe/ it's following master/default or something for each root	02:52
timeless_w7ip	but i could be wrong	02:52
w00t_	kaitlin__: got a few questions/comments, I figure IRC is lower latency than email for this if you have a moment	02:52
lcuk	timeless_w7ip, with the more general thing, what happens if the integration is coming from another branch?	02:52
timeless_w7ip	lcuk:: ?	02:53
timeless_w7ip	the changes will be viewable but not indexed	02:53
* timeless_w7ip tries to figure out how to demo that		02:53
timeless_w7ip	do you know of a repo either in meego.* or qt.* which has such a branch?	02:53
lcuk	timeless_w7ip, yes, so if whilst the master branch is being pulled, some other branch be used for actually building images from	02:53
timeless_w7ip	(today)	02:53
lcuk	timeless_w7ip, no, just a historical murmoring	02:54
timeless_w7ip	lcuk: the pull is actually a complete pull not a targetted pull	02:54
timeless_w7ip	so the underlying vcs has access to all versions	02:54
lcuk	yeah	02:54
w00t_	lcuk: yourwatch? :)	02:54
timeless_w7ip	and the version picker at the bottom of a file will let you pick any version from any branch	02:54
lcuk	w00t_, prototyped with amply duct tape	02:55
timeless_w7ip	eventually i'd like to let you see versions listed by branch	02:55
lcuk	ample	02:55
timeless_w7ip	but i haven't written that code yet	02:55
* timeless_w7ip doesn't like the UI sketches from lcuk's url above		02:55
timeless_w7ip	they won't work on a 3" screen	02:55
lcuk	timeless_w7ip, I basically use them everyday - the first one is practically the playground	02:56
timeless_w7ip	?	02:56
GeneralAntilles	Who's using a 3" screen?	02:56
timeless_w7ip	gan: 3.5"?	02:56
GeneralAntilles	Yes.	02:56
GeneralAntilles	3" is what they put on the back of nice cameras.	02:57
lcuk	a hole to look through is what they put on the back of really nice cameras.	02:57
michaelg\|nok	hehe	02:57
lofty306	haha	02:57
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GeneralAntilles	lcuk, it's called a "viewfinder" and they've got those too. :P	02:58
timeless_w7ip	lcuk: what do you mean by 'i basically use them everyday'?	02:58
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lcuk	timeless_w7ip, look at the first screen, a calendar some notes, a weather doofer and some photos	02:59
timeless_w7ip	yes..?	02:59
timeless_w7ip	i'm looking at that screen using my n900	02:59
timeless_w7ip	the font size is such that the top line "New message" is not readable	02:59
timeless_w7ip	the note while cute is mdoerately painful to read	03:00
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timeless_w7ip	the weather station is cut off such that you can't read the name of the region (Minnesotta? [s.b. Michigan iirc])	03:01
timeless_w7ip	And while it's vaguely shiny trying to show me a calendar, it needs to use a solid box and a different color for the current date	03:01
timeless_w7ip	otherwise it's just being stupid	03:01
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timeless_w7ip	it's also unclear to me how much value a generic calendar like that has	03:01
lcuk	http://liqbase.net/liq.20090216_011659.lib.scr.png	03:01
timeless_w7ip	i certainly can't read the numbers in your calendar	03:02
timeless_w7ip	nor the text	03:02
lcuk	you would not be expected to	03:02
timeless_w7ip	you do get points for the rose, IFF it's a rose	03:02
lcuk	I cannot read the words when I glance across the room either	03:03
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lcuk	but that does not mean I cannot use the calendar hanging there	03:03
GeneralAntilles	lcuk,time for new glasses. :P	03:03
lcuk	GeneralAntilles, sure, point remains though	03:03
timeless_w7ip	I guess what i'm saying is that i'd rather it do something different	03:03
timeless_w7ip	closer to what you have	03:03
timeless_w7ip	e.g. show me the weekdays at the top	03:03
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timeless_w7ip	the numbers for the first day of the week down the side	03:04
timeless_w7ip	and then color in the boxes and use gridlines for the others	03:04
timeless_w7ip	(color to show how full a day is)	03:04
lcuk	sure	03:04
timeless_w7ip	that way most days don't penalize me for text which is duplicative and useless	03:04
lcuk	people suggest doing a tile of sketches within	03:04
timeless_w7ip	but i get more useful things	03:04
timeless_w7ip	oh, also, don't use 2 letters for a Day header unless it's ambiguous	03:04
timeless_w7ip	i.e. use Su, M, Tu, W, Th, F, Sa	03:05
timeless_w7ip	(not Mo, not We, not Fr)	03:05
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timeless_w7ip	i'm not saying that the design has no future	03:06
lcuk	timeless_w7ip, the panels along the bottom are good and useful	03:06
timeless_w7ip	just that assuming it's implemented as is, it's not workable	03:06
timeless_w7ip	oh, that i'd believe	03:06
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timeless_w7ip	although it reminds me of wp7 :)	03:06
timeless_w7ip	[Now] seems way too cluttered to be usable	03:07
* gabrbedd uses R for Thursday, like his university did		03:07
timeless_w7ip	and the font size used in a Now article seems way too hard to use	03:07
timeless_w7ip	gabrbedd: what country/university?	03:08
* timeless_w7ip remembers that this screen is touch friendly		03:08
gabrbedd	timeless_w7ip: University of Tennessee (USA).	03:08
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timeless_w7ip	interesting	03:09
gabrbedd	That way you could say 101 Chemistry 3-4 TR	03:09
gabrbedd	103 Philosopy 3-3:3 MWR	03:09
gabrbedd	something like that... been a while.	03:09
gabrbedd	Didn't have to worry about Sat/Sun... so it worked.	03:10
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lcuk	:) Local Knowledge.	03:11
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timeless_w7ip	actually iirc we use T, Th	03:12
* timeless_w7ip can't remember if it's the same for S and Sa		03:12
timeless_w7ip	it probably is	03:12
lcuk	when displayed along a strip, MTWTFSS makes sense	03:12
timeless_w7ip	yeah, that too	03:13
lcuk	it is only when you look at each individually	03:13
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timeless_w7ip	anyway, my point is that if you're /going/ to use a 2 letter form instead of a 3 letter form, you only actually use two letters to disambiguate, not for each day	03:13
timeless_w7ip	otherwise you can use the 1 or 3 letter forms	03:13
gabrbedd	mhm	03:14
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gabrbedd	disambiguate	03:14
gabrbedd	the.... disambiguator	03:14
timeless_w7ip	(some phone i saw recently insisted on being stupid in using 2 letter forms, so it's a be that's in my current bonnet)	03:14
lcuk	timeless_w7ip, are there general central language packs for these general day name month names?	03:14
lcuk	or are those simply a part of the clib itself or wherevre the datehandling string functions come from?	03:15
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timeless_w7ip	lcuk: for the short versions?	03:16
timeless_w7ip	there should be for the 3 letter en stuff	03:17
timeless_w7ip	for the 1-2 things, dunno	03:17
lcuk	timeless_w7ip, yes, and which have the variation	03:17
lcuk	actually, nm I am going trying to sleep, been binged at far too often last 96hrs	03:18
lcuk	gnite timeless_w7ip \o	03:18
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gabrbedd	lcuk: g'night!	03:21
gabrbedd	lcuk: throw a rock at 'em for me! :-)	03:21
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lcuk	gnite gabrbedd "disambiguator?"	03:21
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timeless_w7ip	a quick search doesn't turn up anything	03:21
timeless_w7ip	i think the general assumption is that you have space for the 3 letter or full word	03:21
lcuk	yeah timeless_w7ip	03:22
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timeless_w7ip	the w7 onscreen calendar is actually using 2 letter form (w/ 2 letters for each day :( )	03:22
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timeless_w7ip	since ms is using that form, there has to be an api to at least get it	03:23
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timeless_w7ip	this is the standard Vista(?) calendar widget which appears everywhere in the os	03:23
* timeless_w7ip doesn't use vista and thinks of it as a w7 feature but saw it on vista		03:24
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lcuk	win xp uses single letters for the calendar picker, ubuntu uses 3	03:24
* timeless_w7ip nods		03:25
timeless_w7ip	i'm still not used to w7 [Vis]'s changes	03:26
timeless_w7ip	i mostly think in terms of nt5	03:26
timeless_w7ip	(2k)	03:26
timeless_w7ip	lcuk, anyway, http://mxr.meego.com/qt.gitorious.org/source/qt/src/corelib/corelib.pro#42 has the ui to pick another ver	03:26
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* timeless_w7ip goes back to trying to promote changes		03:26
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Nacht_	does anyone know how to get the touchscreen on a dell inspiron duo to work correctly?	04:13
Nacht_	Hello?	04:14
gabrbedd	What's the touchscreen? (hint: sudo lsusb -v) Also, what's incorrect about it?	04:16
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gabrbedd	Nacht_: ^^	04:18
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Nacht_	It's some sort of egalax. The problem is that whenever I use the touchscreen, my cursor jumps to the upper left hand corner. Tried using the x touchscreen config tool from the repositories. No good though. The screen is linux compatible. I got it working with ubuntu using a grub hid-quirk entry.	04:19
gabrbedd	Nacht_: Yeah, I think I've encountered that same (damn) touchscreen...	04:20
gabrbedd	Nacht_: Did the hid-quirk not work for you in MeeGo ?	04:20
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Nacht_	Meego does not use grub.	04:21
gabrbedd	i.e. you haven't tried it yet. :-0	04:21
Nacht_	yeah...	04:21
gabrbedd	sorry... that was supposed to be smiley :-)	04:21
Nacht_	lol	04:21
gabrbedd	The config file is /boot/extlinux/extlinux.conf	04:22
gabrbedd	know vi?	04:22
Nacht_	No. Just follow instructions real good :)	04:22
gabrbedd	vi is a text editor required to be installed on all POSIX operating systems...	04:23
gabrbedd	but it's not fun to use.	04:23
ar	it is	04:23
Nacht_	mmmmkay....	04:23
ar	especially if you don't know it and try to exit from it	04:23
Nacht_	<_<	04:23
gabrbedd	You need to edit /boot/extlinux/extlinux.conf (as root) and you can add your hid quirk...	04:24
gabrbedd	There'll be a line that says "append" ... you should know what to do.	04:24
ar	user input can be then treated as a good source of pseudo-random data	04:24
gabrbedd	What version of MeeGo are you using?	04:24
Nacht_	1.1	04:24
Nacht_	Netbook.	04:24
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gabrbedd	Ok... open a terminal and do: sudo gedit /boot/extlinux/extlinux.conf	04:24
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Nacht_	thanks	04:26
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Nacht_	mmmkay	04:33
Nacht_	didn't catch which line to attach my usbhid in extlinux.conf.	04:33
Nacht_	Got me a quirk to add ^_^	04:34
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Nacht_	Soooooooo..... Where in extlinux.conf do I need to put it....?	04:34
gabrbedd	Nacht_: Down at the bottom... don't you see a line that says " append" at the beginning?	04:35
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Nacht_	Right above "Menu Default" right?	04:35
gabrbedd	yesh	04:36
Nacht_	Sweet. Same code line as in grub right?	04:36
gabrbedd	put your quirk at the end... typically after "vga=current"	04:36
gabrbedd	yes, same code line	04:37
Nacht_	kkthx. Seriously.	04:37
gabrbedd	np	04:37
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Nacht_	FANTASTIC! It works nao!	04:41
gabrbedd	:-)	04:41
Nacht_	Just 2 more things. 1) Meego has an awesome virtual keyboard demo'd, What's the package name? and 2) How would I set up a screen rotate applet...?	04:42
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Nacht_	Or even better a way to use the accelerometer installed on the duo... Pretty sure that's beyond the current kernel's abilities tho...	04:43
Nacht_	After that, I'll be free to joke about molesting my netbook	04:44
lofty306	:)	04:44
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gabrbedd	Nacht_: Check out http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_Desktop/Changing_Desktops	04:47
Nacht_	mmmmkay	04:47
gabrbedd	Nacht_: Also this may be helpful http://wiki.meego.com/Devices/Ideapad	04:47
Nacht_	thanks. any other tips?	04:48
gabrbedd	Hmmm... I think there's a more direct link on the wiki... searching...	04:49
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Nacht_	Dell lists the accelerometer as a ST Microelectronics ST DL303DLH Sensor and says that it doubles as a magntrometer...	04:51
gabrbedd	Nacht_: found it! http://wiki.meego.com/Maliit/MeeGo_1.1	04:52
Nacht_	sweet	04:53
Nacht_	I likes info \ '_'/	04:53
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gabrbedd	Since duicontrolpanel's wifi applet is DOA... anybody know how to use connman from cli?	05:17
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TSCHAKeee	gabrbedd: install connman-test, and use the tools installed.	05:21
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gabrbedd	TSCHAKeee: thx...	05:22
* gabrbedd goes find a flash drive since it's a network catch-22		05:22
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TSCHAKeee	can't you build a new image?	05:24
TSCHAKeee	just shove it into the kickstart	05:24
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gabrbedd	TSCHAKeee: sure... if I want to wait 30-60 mins for a new image. :-)	05:26
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gabrbedd	\o/	05:30
* gabrbedd hugs TSCHAKeee		05:30
TSCHAKeee	yw	05:31
TSCHAKeee	:)	05:31
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* gabrbedd is rsync'ing a kernel build tree over wifi		05:58
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priyanka	HI I m trying to buld rpm-python from meego 1.1 release area using OBS. the spec file has no License feild , the build fails giving Leicense error, also the spec file is name rpm-python.spec but the spec fil is looking for rpm.spec, is it a bug?	07:01
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Sage	lbt: ping	08:36
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Sage	lbt: the armv8el scheduler is enabled in cobs but the build needs to be updated to newer version the current one that is installed there doesn't work well with armv7hl. build version 2011.01.20 and newer works.	08:38
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timoph	hmmh. Do I need to register for the conference when I've submitted a session proposal or should I wait if it get approved since the speaker registration requires some code?	09:59
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Stskeeps	ask on meego-events@ or -community@	10:00
timoph	will do. thanks	10:00
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timoph	looks like it's been answered already: http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-events/2011-March/000058.html	10:05
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lcuk2	morning \o	10:48
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timeless_w7ip	lcuk: morning	10:58
timeless_w7ip	i'm pretty close to pushing my mxr changes to upstream	10:58
* timeless_w7ip goes to try to merge them to mxr.meego.com		10:59
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bkalinga	hi All, Currently I have Meego1.1 set up with QEMU	11:59
bkalinga	i want to upgrade it to 1.2 prelreleases like 1.1.90 or something	12:00
bkalinga	could someone provide some input on this	12:00
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lbt	Sage: is there a bug logged?	12:06
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Venemo_N900	good morning	12:09
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lcukn900	morning venemo \o	12:11
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Venemo_N900	hey lcukn900 :)	12:12
Sage	Stskeeps: did we have a build update requirement bug for hardfp armv8el scheduler at some point?	12:12
Venemo_N900	what's up?	12:12
Stskeeps	Sage: build 2011.01.20 or .30	12:12
Sage	I think .20 was enough for armv8el	12:13
Sage	at least my local obs is running build-2011.01.20-47.2.noarch and that works	12:14
Venemo_N900	it would be nice how smoother will puzzle-master run on hardfp... since Qt Graphics View uses lots of fp calculations	12:14
Venemo_N900	lcukn900: could you test it someday?	12:14
Sage	Stskeeps: ^	12:15
alterego	Venemo_N900: when I get my other N900s' battery back in a week I'll test it for you ;)	12:15
Venemo_N900	thanks alterego :)	12:16
lcukn900	venemo, no - you can test it yourself!	12:16
alterego	Heh	12:16
Venemo_N900	I can't, I have no sd card	12:16
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lcukn900	it is ok, we have no general harpfp build yet, so whilst that is being sorted out you can get an sd card :p	12:17
alterego	Heh	12:18
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thiago	Stskeeps: do you have a blog?	12:19
bkalinga	i want to upgrade it to 1.2 prelreleases like 1.1.90 or something ....could someone provide some input on this	12:19
Venemo_N900	lcukn900: I can't spare the price of an sd card now.	12:20
Stskeeps	thiago: only mer-project.blogspot.com but i don't write too much these days	12:20
thiago	Stskeeps: ok, n/p	12:20
lcukn900	bkalinga update versions is complex and not tested for, perhaps you could just get a 1.1.90 image	12:20
Stskeeps	some might claim #meego-arm logs is my microblog ;)	12:20
lcukn900	if they did it is like having a blog in the basement behing a sign saying beware of the tiger :p	12:21
thiago	Stskeeps: :-)	12:21
alterego	Tiger Blood	12:22
bkalinga	1.1.90 image for QEMU how would i get it..can you share any pointer	12:22
thiago	alterego: :)	12:22
* arfoll is all happy with his wetab :-)		12:23
bkalinga	lcukn900: currently i don't have a device and trying out on QEMU...so don't know how to get 1.1.90 image	12:23
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lcukn900	bkalinga: searching the internet for "meego 1.1.90 qemu" somehow strangely gave me a link to http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/1.1.90/1.1.90.1.20110201.1/handset/images/meego-handset-ia32-qemu/	12:26
* lcukn900 shocked		12:26
bkalinga	let me check that ink..thanks lcukn900:	12:26
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lcukn900	it might not be latest latest one but the folder tree should point you in right direction	12:26
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bkalinga	any idea how i can update this location in my qemu so that zypper will pick the correct source rpm	12:28
bkalinga	and i will build them manually	12:28
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timeless_w7ip	lcukn900: you need to use <lmgtfy>	12:35
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bkalinga	lcukn900: the link u shared contains a meego-handset-ia32-qemu-1.1.90.1.20110201.1-raw.tar.bz2	12:45
bkalinga	i am not getting what should i do further	12:45
timeless_w7ip	bkalinga: might you try google?	12:47
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lbt	Sage: updated build	12:55
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bkalinga	timeless_w7ip: actually googled it but not able to find anything related to "how to upgrade meego 1.1 to 1.1.90 "	13:05
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bkalinga	if you have any link ..would you please share it	13:05
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jonnor	bkalinga: what you want to is to get a new target	13:15
jonnor	http://wiki.meego.com/SDK/Docs/1.1/Getting_started_with_the_MeeGo_SDK_for_Linux#Install_MeeGo_Target	13:15
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jonnor	Don't google as your first move, go first to the relevant documentation	13:16
jonnor	What you need might actually be there :)	13:16
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timeless_w7ip	grr.. i don't like apache	13:23
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CosmoHill	timeless_w7ip: maybe use httpdlight instead?	13:35
timeless_w7ip	cosmohill: so...	13:35
timeless_w7ip	i'm writing an app that lives behind a web server	13:35
timeless_w7ip	and i was trying to accelerate it by talking to apache	13:35
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bkalinga	jonnor: This is the link i had and i already followed to install Meego1.1	14:08
bkalinga	It does not say anything about Meego1.1.90 installation or how to upgrade?	14:08
bkalinga	if i follow this link it seems i need to add http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/1.1.90/1.1.90.1.20110201.1/handset/images/meego-handset-ia32-qemu/ to /etc/apt/sources.list.d/meego-sdk.list	14:10
bkalinga	then next step is "Add the repository public key "	14:10
bkalinga	would it be the same as in the link for Meego1.1 i am not sure..any idea	14:11
jonnor	bkalinga: 1.1.90 is just another target	14:13
jonnor	the repo key is probably the same	14:13
jonnor	and if you allready added it then you can skip that step, ofc	14:13
jonnor	in any case, you can probably just get the tarball for the target yourself	14:14
bkalinga	ok if i manually get the tar then	14:14
bkalinga	what next i need to do	14:14
bkalinga	how to add it to the "mad-admin list "	14:15
bkalinga	once it will reflect in mad-admin list i can use that..if i am correct	14:15
bkalinga	i think i can place that that .tar to a specified path and run sudo mad-admin create -f <target> to create a target out of that	14:17
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bkalinga	any idea where i need to place the tar after downloading and what must be the value for <target> to the command create -f <target>	14:18
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jonnor	bkalinga: man mad-admin	14:23
jonnor	if that fails, locate your existing targets in the filesystem	14:23
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bkalinga	ok...let me try	14:24
jonnor	I suspect you also want a runtime http://wiki.meego.com/SDK/Docs/1.1/Configuring_QEMU_runtimes	14:24
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bkalinga	http://pastebin.com/hEHiMrP9	14:29
bkalinga	i have all this from sudo mad list	14:29
bkalinga	but only two targets are installed	14:29
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bkalinga	there No manual entry for mad	14:30
lofty306	me neeither prob didnt install the doc	14:32
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Guest79786	Uk ne1	14:38
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* timeless_office can't find eric		17:00
lcuk	have you looked behind the fridge?	17:01
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shadeslayer	or under it	17:04
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* timeless_office offers ask a phone		17:13
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lcuk	timeless_office, which eric are you looking for?	17:15
timeless_office	the one who can poke bugzilla to give me a component/product	17:15
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gabrbedd	timeless_office: I thought it was bdub	17:20
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timeless_office	gabrbedd: i dunno	17:27
timeless_office	dawnfoster?	17:27
DawnFoster	hey timeless_office	17:28
timeless_office	gabrbedd: if you find any pokable someone who you think can help me get my bugzilla product/component, please feel free to poke them for me	17:28
timeless_office	dawn: hey, so... i asked for a bugzilla component a while ago, can you see about poking someone to make it happen? :)	17:28
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DawnFoster	I'm still catching up - let me look into it	17:29
timeless_office	bug 11514	17:29
_MeeeGoBot_	Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=11514 enh, Undecided, ---, eric.le-roux, NEW, please add a product mxr.meego.com in MeeGo Community Infrastructure classification	17:30
timeless_office	it was filed in december..	17:30
timeless_office	anyway, at this point 2/3 of the roots are automatically updating	17:30
timeless_office	the last one is close to the point where i can let it loose, and i'm close to the point where i think i can release my elevation principles	17:31
timeless_office	or at least start thinking about letting someone audit the code	17:31
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timeless_office	dawn: oh, at some point we need to remind people to take ownership of bugs when they resolve them	17:42
timeless_office	the QA of one of the bugs in that component resolved a bug but didn't claim ownership	17:42
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qgil	Amazing: A decade of GStreamer hacking activities squeezed into ~5 minutes. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMiMGOg53Ec Makes me feel so proud of being part of a creative community!	18:11
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X-Fade	qgil: Yeah, that visualization tool is cool. A few years old though.	18:12
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qgil	X-Fade: first time i see it	18:13
lbt	me too - very cool	18:13
X-Fade	qgil: Ah, no. I have seen it for many projects over the last few years.	18:13
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X-Fade	But still, really cool to see.	18:15
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qgil	X-Fade lbt I'm assuming you will have one conference proposal for apps.meego.com, right? Even one separate from the other one expected about the community OBS?	18:15
X-Fade	qgil: Do you think that is needed for the target audience?	18:16
qgil	of course! nobody knows anything about apps.meego.com today	18:16
lbt	I didn't think it was the kind of thing wanted	18:16
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qgil	well, good that I checked then	18:17
lbt	I was doing more of a 'vendor' talk	18:17
X-Fade	qgil: Then the conference really gives off the wrong impression.	18:17
lbt	yep	18:17
X-Fade	*conference site.	18:17
qgil	?	18:17
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X-Fade	Well, more the vendor/commercial counter part this time.	18:17
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qgil	I'm not saying that this should be a keynote - but of course any relevant novelty in the MeeGo project has and will always have a place in a MeeGo Conference	18:18
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X-Fade	But yes, I can come up with a proposal for apps.meego.com and how a vendor can benefit from community apps.	18:18
lbt	by tomorrow	18:18
X-Fade	Sure, tomorrow is a long day :)	18:19
X-Fade	And we still have today.	18:19
qgil	just curious: what exactly are you seeing in the website hinting to this vendorYES-communityNO focus?	18:19
qgil	a site with a t-shirt contest promoted in the home, funny characters... why is this different from Dublin?	18:19
X-Fade	qgil: That was the general impression when talked about the target audience on the list and meeting?	18:20
* lbt agrees - but the site doesn't give that impression		18:21
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gabrbedd	qgil: That's the impression I get, too... so it makes me hesitant to do something too technical. :-)	18:21
X-Fade	No, sorry that is me wording it the wrong way.	18:21
qgil	There is indeed an intention to actively bring commercial players... but I always assumed that the community basics are in place	18:21
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lbt	aside: "Harmattan in the MeeGo community" ... :)	18:22
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qgil	This is interesting: EVERYBODY HERE - PLEASE DON'T STOP YOURSELVES FROM SUBMITTING A PROPOSAL TO THE MEEGO CONFERENCE	18:23
gabrbedd	lbt: Well, the "about" page says the conference is a showcase for new meego products.	18:23
vldmr	hi all... nice to meet this channel !! X:)	18:23
* w00t_ has no idea what he'd propose		18:24
pupnik	very cool video	18:24
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qgil	"From application developers to platform designers, hardware vendors to open source enthusiasts, anyone engaged in MeeGo is invited to contribute and participate at the San Francisco Regency Hyatt, California, USA, from May 23rd-25th, 2011."	18:25
lbt	gabrbedd: true ... but that doesn't exclude other things. I did somehow get the feeling that the conferences would alternate between "less community" and "more community" oriented	18:25
qgil	http://sf2011.meego.com/program/call-session-proposals	18:25
qgil	So yes, the summary of the conference tries to attract commercial vendors, but I believe there has never been an attempt to push back the community, hobbyists, individuals on their own etc	18:25
vldmr	can I change my Symbian^3 OS to Meego?	18:26
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TSCHAKeee	vldmr: short answer? no.	18:26
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qgil	Like, if Dubling was 1000 people all of them could repeat and have the extra 400 seats for ISV and device vendors with a presence in the Bay Area / US	18:26
vldmr	TSCHAKeee: ok... and can I change Maemo to Meego ?	18:27
lbt	vldmr: there's a lot of effort to make meego relevant to maemo users	18:27
pupnik	vldmr: i'm sorry but your questions are not easy to answer	18:27
TSCHAKeee	vldmr: again, if you're asking this question in this manner...it's not ready for you.	18:27
gabrbedd	lbt: Also, I don't know what I'm doing when it comes to conference presentations. :-)	18:27
lbt	gabrbedd: talking to friends	18:28
gabrbedd	lbt: ...so it's hard to break away from the code to make a powerpoint. :-)	18:28
lbt	impress please	18:28
lbt	or html5	18:28
lbt	or S5	18:29
vldmr	I would like to use Meego in my Nokia device !! can I do it anyway ?	18:29
gabrbedd	lbt: yeah, yeah... sorry, everyone around me lways says "powerpoint"	18:29
lbt	what device vldmr	18:29
lbt	gabrbedd: chip away at them	18:29
vldmr	lbt: Nokia C6-00	18:30
berndhs	gabrbedd: it's like a performance for people who can't sing	18:30
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vldmr	lbt: smartphone	18:30
lbt	vldmr: no.... and to be fair ... it's N900 or nothing	18:30
TSCHAKeee	vldmr: that phone is much too small for MeeGo.	18:30
lbt	Nokia have made some statements about a MeeGo device coming out ... google should help	18:31
gabrbedd	berndhs: karaoke night?	18:31
gabrbedd	:-p	18:31
berndhs	gabrbedd: or mime if you don't like your voice	18:32
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gabrbedd	lbt: gotta choose my battles. Besides, I don't use PowerPoint or Impress. I prefer a chalk board. :-)	18:35
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gabrbedd	lbt: anyway, I'll see if I can dream up an idea over lunch. I'm already teaming with texrat for one, btw	18:36
berndhs	dont they just hook up your laptop to a projector? so you can run anything you want ?	18:36
* lbt wonders how far it is to Whistler from SF....		18:37
gabrbedd	lbt: far	18:37
lbt	shh	18:37
X-Fade	lbt: Spring skiing? :)	18:37
lbt	have you seen the reports	18:37
thiago	vldmr: the C6-00 is not even S^3. Anyway, the problem is not the OS, it's the HW. If you know how to do it, you can. But I'm telling you that it's not easy to flash a different OS on that HW	18:37
thiago	Stskeeps: are you ok with extending?	18:38
gabrbedd	berndhs: i like my chalk very soft, and very dusty. :-)	18:38
lbt	berndhs: yep	18:39
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* lcuk lobs a chalk duster @ gabrbedd		18:54
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pupnik	merp	18:54
pupnik	Sister for sale! Sister for sale! One crying and spying young sister for sale!	18:55
pupnik	I'm really not kidding! So who'll start the bidding?	18:55
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lcuk	lbt, European X-Games just started in France	18:57
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lbt	pupnik: I'll see you one sister and raise you two nephews and a neice....	19:15
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pupnik	shel silverstein was a good children's poem writer lbt	19:17
* lbt likes your timestamp		19:18
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mathias_m	anyone here know how I get Aegis to allow my to install my own deb files over the ones from com.nokia.maemo?	19:20
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X-Fade	mathias_m: I'm pretty sure nobody will answer you because you talk of something which is not available yet :)	19:21
mathias_m	oh... :-/ maybe you can answer off-line?	19:22
petteri	please tell us more :)	19:22
X-Fade	mathias_m: No, don't look at me. Just sayin'	19:22
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mathias_m	I know naa-thing...	19:23
Jaffa	mathias_m: I think (from what I remember from Amsterdam), your package needs to come from a domain with a higher trust level; and certain privileges granted to it, than the com.nokia.maemo packages	19:23
Jaffa	s/domain/repo/	19:23
infobot	Jaffa meant: mathias_m: I think (from what I remember from Amsterdam), your package needs to come from a repo with a higher trust level; and certain privileges granted to it, than the com.nokia.maemo packages	19:23
mathias_m	sigh	19:23
mihero	dpkg -i doesn't work?	19:24
mathias_m	I have a fix for a problem qt issue and I just want to test it on harmattan hardware	19:24
mathias_m	have build the binaries, but can't install them	19:24
kaitlin__	w00t_: Sorry I missed your ping - I had just left for the day. I just sent a response to your email.	19:24
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mathias_m	cheers	19:24
w00t_	kaitlin__: sure, np, good that we're on the same page	19:24
Jaffa	mathias_m: Send the hardware to me and I'll test it for you. I won't be able to succeed, but at least I'll have a new toy	19:25
w00t_	I'll see if I can find some time to start work on it in 30-60 mins after I've wrapped things up at the 'day job'	19:25
mathias_m	kaitlin__: sorry, was hoping you were talking to me... ;)	19:25
kaitlin__	mathias_m: ;)	19:25
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kaitlin__	w00t_: That would be great - thanks so much for the code review. I'm pretty new to Qt development, and the async code was one of the first items I worked on back in Dec. It's been sitting around since then. And it's not well tested.	19:26
kaitlin__	w00t_: So it's great to get a code review and have another set of eyes taking a look.	19:26
w00t_	:)	19:26
w00t_	happy to help	19:27
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kaitlin__	w00t_: Would it be easier if I reviewed / applied your patched beforehand? I don't want you to have to rebase too often.	19:27
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w00t_	kaitlin__: if you have the time to do that, it would be great, but they don't really touch seasidesyncmodel	19:27
w00t_	so I think we'll be ok for the time being	19:27
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* kaitlin__ looks.		19:28
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kaitlin__	Ohh.. right, they only touch the listmodel. My understanding from Connie was that there was some interest in having a list model, but then no one really used it.	19:29
kaitlin__	So I think that code is a bit forlorn indeed.	19:30
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w00t_	kaitlin__: hmmm, if it's not used at all - perhaps it can just be nuked from orbit :)	19:32
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ray24	I want to inherit everyone's thinking process in here	19:34
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lcuk	ray24, everyones? are you sure	19:34
ray24	ye	19:35
ray24	s	19:35
Stskeeps	thiago: yes	19:35
ray24	I want to speak like everyone in here. the competent	19:35
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kaitlin__	w00t_: Just double checked with Connie, and it does seem like no one is using it. Do you have a need for the listmodel?	19:35
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w00t_	kaitlin__: no, I'm just generally interested in trying to improve the middleware stack, and libseaside etc caught my interest since I have a fair amount of professional knowledge/experience with PIM/contacts area of QtMobility	19:36
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mnementh	waves ^ yeah that code should be ripped out. it's changed a few hands before bit-rotting in the repos	19:36
kaitlin__	w00t_: Cool - just wanted to make sure we didn't nuke something that someone wanted to use.	19:37
w00t_	mnementh: ah! didn't know you were on IRC too, hi	19:38
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neoxious	helo	19:39
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neoxious	help	19:39
w00t_	kaitlin__: anyway, to make it clear: I'm fine with that code being removed and dropping those patches :)	19:39
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kaitlin__	Excellent. I'll bypass on your patches then - I can work on ripping it out instead.	19:41
ColKilkenny	official version of opera mobile for meego apparently confirmed	19:41
Stskeeps	oh?	19:42
Stskeeps	url?	19:42
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dm8tbr	and which arch?	19:42
ColKilkenny	http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-12261_7-20044304-10356022.html	19:42
mnementh	w00t_: hi! originally the seperate models came from different apps needing different but shared views... then the apps fluctuated from MTF to QML and libseaside sort of sat there. thanks for your code input though.	19:43
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ColKilkenny	i'd guess it's more for mobile phones so my guess would be arm	19:43
w00t_	mnementh: is seaside still used in the QML stack?	19:44
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w00t_	mnementh: i'd have figured that it would be a useful place to e.g. do aggregation from multiple QContactManager backends	19:44
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ColKilkenny	actually, this is much more official source: http://www.opera.com/press/releases/2011/03/17_2/	19:46
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mnementh	w00t_: a re-written version is bundled with the QML contacts app since I needed Q_INVOKABLE methods for QML.... i fluctuated between writing it all in the qt-declarativecontacts ContactModel but with some apps still in MTF I had to keep the models in cpp. Which gives us more control for now anyways. We thought of axing libseaside entirely except for the note above about MTF. I'm currently playing around with libfolks to handle aggregation... we'll see how	19:50
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w00t_	mnementh: ah, folks - nifty, presumably you have a QContactManager interface bolted onto it so QML can talk to it?	19:51
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w00t_	that's a good approach, anyway	19:52
w00t_	so long as there's one central place where aggregation is done, it's great :)	19:52
* w00t_ looks forward to seeing this stuff so he can tinker with it		19:52
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* CosmoHill would glare at the stuck Windows logo but this graphics card is having other ideas		20:05
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w00t_	kaitlin__: something else I just realised, good for future reference.. by adding the requests to SeasideSyncModel directly (and not the private member), there was an ABI break (the size of SeasideSyncModel would have changed) which is usually not a good thing in shared libraries	20:13
w00t_	so I'll fix that at the same time	20:14
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lcuk	w00t_, that ABI problem has been the crux of many C++ issues	20:15
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w00t_	lcuk: it's not a C++ issue, C has the same problem	20:15
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lcuk	w00t_, in C you do not generally create subclasses for structs	20:17
w00t_	lcuk: you do, if you want to avoid this problem	20:17
w00t_	(either that, or you just don't add data members, or you announce that you're breaking ABI and bump soversion)	20:18
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gabrbedd	lcuk: If you add a new data member to a public class or struct in C or C++, then you will break binary compatability (but not source compatability)	20:19
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lcuk	gabrbedd, it is entirely feasible to add new members to structures in the library and have no code breakage and apps continue to work happily	20:23
lcuk	if the apps have their own instance members then you get breakage	20:23
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* thiago_home recommends reading his very detailed "Binary Compatibility Issues With C++" page		20:24
lcuk	thiago_home, links help! (I have read it in the past)	20:25
thiago_home	google for "binary compatibility c++", it should be the first link	20:25
gabrbedd	lcuk: But if you add it as a member in the private struct (an opaque pointer)... then you don't have to worry about it. :-)	20:25
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thiago_home	http://techbase.kde.org/Policies/Binary_Compatibility_Issues_With_C++	20:25
gabrbedd	how do you spell compatability?	20:25
gabrbedd	:-p	20:25
w00t_	the same way I do my coding	20:26
w00t_	copy and paste :-)	20:26
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gabrbedd	w00t_: hahaha!	20:26
berndhs	many legal systems do the same, its called "precedence" :)	20:26
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thiago_home	"compatible" -le +ility	20:27
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w00t_	o/ thiago_home	20:27
w00t_	good day? :)	20:27
thiago_home	yes	20:27
thiago_home	I think this is easier in Italian, where the consonants haven't changed	20:28
iekku	day @ home = good day	20:28
w00t_	mine wasn't, I spent pretty much all of it fighting with a stupid login dialog	20:28
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gabrbedd	thiago_home: Thanks for the article! :-)	20:28
thiago_home	w00t_: that means no work done if you couldn't get past the login dialog	20:28
w00t_	exactly	20:29
w00t_	the bug that I was trying to work on needed the dialog to work	20:29
w00t_	and it didn't, for the most part	20:29
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* thiago_home last updated that page when he found this issue: http://techbase.kde.org/Policies/Binary_Compatibility_Examples#Override_a_virtual_that_doesn.27t_come_from_a_primary_base		20:29
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lcuk	how does compatibility in java or c# or .net work?	20:30
thiago_home	I don't know for sure	20:31
thiago_home	when I last looked into Java bytecode, I think the function names were stored in the .class files	20:31
thiago_home	so it does lookup-by-name	20:31
Jaffa	It does	20:31
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Jaffa	And signature	20:31
lcuk	do developers have to concern themselves about it?	20:32
thiago_home	since all objects are held as pointers with refcounting, the size changing is not an issue	20:32
lcuk	I recall from old vb days there were compatibility gotchas	20:32
thiago_home	I don't know about member layout changing, but I would expect that not exist either	20:32
Jaffa	lcuk: A little, but it's rare to change a JAR in a Java system without rebuilding and recompiling the rest of the app	20:32
thiago_home	i.e., treat members as properties and make calls to get / set	20:32
lcuk	thiago_home, I thought that was how C++ did its objects tbh	20:32
thiago_home	lcuk: Object *ptr = new Object; <--- this is a pointer	20:33
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Jaffa	I think you can even change a signature to be more acceptable and you still don't need to recompile.	20:33
lcuk	Jaffa, so a core update comes in and all your java apps carry on working?	20:33
thiago_home	lcuk: Object ptr; <--- this is by value	20:33
thiago_home	the compiler reserves sizeof(Object) in the stack or in the structure, then calls the constructor	20:33
Jaffa	e.g. library changes foo(Blah) to foo(Object) and anything will continue to work without recompile.	20:33
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lcuk	thiago_home, yes that is where subclassing screws up on c++	20:33
Jaffa	lcuk: Yes. Thinking about it we do it a lot at work.	20:33
lcuk	because it stores a byval instance member of the baseclass at the head	20:34
thiago_home	lcuk: not only subclasses, but just using the class too	20:34
lcuk	thiago_home, yeah, that is stack based bashing usually	20:34
thiago_home	lcuk: I've had that often when a program randomly crashes and not even the debugger and disassembly make sense.	20:34
qgil	well, it looks like my session proposal to the MeeGo Conference is being useful advertising the event..................	20:34
thiago_home	"when a crash doesn't make sense, recompile"	20:34
thiago_home	happens often to qmake	20:34
Jaffa	lcuk: Things which make it easy in Java: (almost) everything is virtual, binding is done by name, type & signature as runtime linking and every object is passed by ref.	20:35
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lcuk	Jaffa, nice indeed	20:35
* timeless_office sighs		20:35
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* thiago_home points out that the last time he looked at java bytecode was at least 12 years ago, probably more		20:35
lcuk	qgil, I saw that, and people are blogging and stuff about Harmattan using your proposal	20:35
frals	qgil: i saw it made engadget ;)	20:35
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timeless_office	lcuk: want to learn some basic bits about c++? :)	20:35
lcuk	timeless_office, just discussing	20:35
thiago_home	if it made to engadget, it must be true!	20:35
lcuk	I did C++ at college years ago	20:36
* lcuk actually qualified in it		20:36
gabrbedd	lcuk: I don't think subclassing really has much to do with it.	20:36
Jaffa	thiago_home: The JLS folks go to great lengths for forward (and, as much as possible) backwards compatibility. Hence the "interesting" approaches to generic, annotations and enums in Java 5	20:36
lcuk	gabrbedd, but that is where an instance member is stored for the base class	20:36
lcuk	and if the base class expands	20:36
thiago_home	Jaffa: the same can't be said about the C++ committee members...	20:37
Jaffa	frals? A session proposal made Engadget?! No offence to qgil, but it wasn't that earth-shattering ;-)	20:37
thiago_home	Jaffa: ABI is a completely fobidden topic	20:37
gabrbedd	lcuk: But that jacks up everything... not just the derived class.	20:37
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qgil	I think it's the second time I make it to Engadget - the first one was thanks to some post #127 in a talk.maemo.org about enabling dual-booting in the N900	20:37
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frals	Jaffa: yeah, i dont see what the noise is about either, guess its a slow rumour day ;)	20:38
* thiago_home is hoping that the new lvalue-this member functions will be ABI compatible with the current regular member functions		20:38
timeless_office	lcuk; bug 14660 / bug 14661	20:38
_MeeeGoBot_	Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14660 nor, Undecided, ---, peter.j.zhu, NEW, icu gencfu uses delete instead of delete[] for memory allocated by new[] in readFile	20:38
_MeeeGoBot_	Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14661 nor, Undecided, ---, peter.j.zhu, NEW, exempi CDFileHeader::release() uses delete instead of delete[] for new[] from CDFileHeader::read	20:38
Jaffa	thiago_home: Crazy, especially since system-wide shared libs are more common in C/C++	20:38
Jaffa	frals: URL?	20:38
frals	Jaffa: http://www.engadget.com/2011/03/17/nokia-talking-homegrown-harmattan-release-of-meego-at-may-conf/	20:38
lcuk	timeless_office, eek not removing the arrays	20:38
Jaffa	frals: The URL is telling enouhgh	20:39
thiago_home	ok, guys, I have to reboot	20:39
thiago_home	my 2.6.37 kernel decided to stop talking to my HD again	20:39
lcuk	\o thiago_home thanks for the links it will give many food for thought again	20:39
qgil	Jaffa: the thing started with MyNokiaBlog, where the guy made a weird connection of things - in that "tech blogger" way	20:39
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* timeless_office goes for a different class		20:41
quimgil	kicked off webchat - interesting	20:41
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timeless_office	quimgil: oh, you too?	20:42
timeless_office	i guess the service hickupped	20:42
* timeless_office is glad to be able to ghost		20:42
gabrbedd	lcuk: For example... suppose someone changes struct timeval { time_t tv_sec; suseconds_t tv_usec; } by changing time_t from (e.g.) uint32_t to uint64_t.	20:42
gabrbedd	lcuk: That changes the size of the struct... and the offset of tv_usec and the size of tv_sec.	20:43
lcuk	gabrbedd, of course, using struct timeval would because world + dog just use them on the stack	20:43
lcuk	if there was a timeval_create() function though that you stored into a pointer	20:43
lcuk	the problem would not occur	20:43
timeless_office	lcuk; people are really very bad at using the right free() function tm	20:43
timeless_office	in theory C++'s new/delete were supposed to solve this	20:44
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gabrbedd	lcuk: Right... and that would be an opaque pointer (like the "private class" that w00t_ was talking about).	20:44
timeless_office	of course, the existence of new/new[] - delete/delete[] shows that even the basics ...	20:44
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lcuk	gabrbedd, sure, but in c++ it is normal to have the dual layer indirection	20:44
timeless_office	and then there's that minor detail that you can't really use new/delete if you're talking to an object from a different compiler	20:45
lcuk	which was why I was asking how other languages handled it	20:45
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timeless_office	http://mxr.meego.com/repo.meego.com/source/gnupg/g10/parse-packet.c?mark=1149,1165-1168,1168#1148	20:46
timeless_office	anyone see anything wrong there?	20:46
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w00t_	if mxr ever loads, i'll tell you :P	20:46
* timeless_office nods		20:47
timeless_office	i need to look into giving it some help	20:48
berndhs	yeah some bozo isn't using brackets to make the meaning clear	20:48
timeless_office	the database it deals w/ is rather large	20:48
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timeless_office	w00t_: i presume it has loaded by now	20:48
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gabrbedd	lcuk: BTW, yesterday there was some discussion of tic-tac-toe. In the US, when there's a tie, was say it's the "Cat's game." Do they do that over there?	20:49
w00t_	timeless_office: I think something is screwy with my connection, it's not working	20:49
timeless_office	it took me 12s to load (a bit long, but oh well)	20:49
w00t_	brb anyway, dinner :)	20:49
timeless_office	thiago, url of interest: http://mxr.meego.com/repo.meego.com/source/gnupg/g10/parse-packet.c?mark=1149,1165-1168,1168#1148	20:49
lcuk	gabrbedd, no, just save and carry on with new game	20:50
berndhs	timeless_office: in the green hightlighted section, the expression should be bracketed () properly	20:50
berndhs	especially around the macro	20:50
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gabrbedd	lcuk: k, thanks. :-)	20:50
timeless_office	berndhs: that's of course rather annoying, but ignore it, there's something more exciting further into that line	20:51
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berndhs	well the comment says "return soem value different from NULL" and then it returns NULL in some cases	20:52
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maligor	what if it's just 0 and not NULL ;P	20:53
timeless_office	berndhs: yeah, it's a bit strange, ignore the null bit	20:53
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berndhs	also returns a pointer onto the parameter stack	20:54
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berndhs	assuming parameters are on a stack	20:54
* timeless_office gives berndhs a cookie		20:54
timeless_office	http://mxr.meego.com/repo.meego.com/source/sudo/sudo.c?mark=692,699,711#685	20:55
thiago_home	maligor: 0 is NULL	20:55
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thiago_home	maligor: but there's no guarantee that 0 / NULL is actually saved as a bitwise zero	20:55
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timeless_office	thiago: i love that feature	20:55
maligor	thiago_home, I rather meant that it's logic returning 0 rather than NULL :)	20:56
thiago_home	int Class:: *pmm = 0; <--- this doesn't save a zero	20:56
thiago_home	$ g++ -S -o - -xc++ - <<<'class Class; int Class:: *pmm = 0;' \| grep -A1 pmm:	20:57
thiago_home	pmm: .long -1	20:57
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pupnik	WM7: Kill It With Fire	20:59
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lcuk	timeless_office, "if(!pkt_buf)" is one of the first things that gets you into the block in the first place	21:00
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lcuk	so you already have a 0	21:00
timeless_office	maligor =~ s/it's/its/	21:00
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lcuk	mind you, it takes the & of it	21:00
lcuk	what did you notice about it then timeless_office	21:01
timeless_office	i'm letting a tool tell me what's wrong	21:01
timeless_office	lcuk: technically nothing	21:01
timeless_office	but berndhs eventually figured it out	21:01
timeless_office	bug 14662 is the version i've filed	21:01
_MeeeGoBot_	Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14662 nor, Undecided, ---, peter.j.zhu, NEW, sudo init_vars takes a pointer to a stack local variable (pw) and uses it after the structure goes o	21:01
timeless_office	i'm skipping the other one because it's terribly gross intentionally in so many ways	21:02
timeless_office	and i don't care	21:02
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* lcuk nods		21:02
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lcuk	timeless_office, you pull the contents of the MXR from the DVS repositories don't you? any reason you did not pull from the OBS?	21:11
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timeless_office	lcuk: repo.meego.com which is used for some of the recent bugs is based on well... repo.meego.com	21:14
timeless_office	the advantage of dvcs is that they're easy to deal w/	21:14
timeless_office	i'm actually officially trying to figure out how to deal w/ obs or something like it @work	21:14
timeless_office	the questions for obs are basically:	21:15
timeless_office	1. when will you tell me there's something i care about	21:15
timeless_office	2. how do i know i care about it	21:15
timeless_office	3. how do i get something useful from you	21:15
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timeless_office	w/ a dvcs, i can pick an answer for #1 of "every day @ hour X"	21:16
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timeless_office	for 2, i can decide 'default', or 'master/something'	21:16
timeless_office	for 3, a 'checkout' is useful	21:16
timeless_office	4. how can i decide that what you have today is not different from what i got yesterday	21:17
lcuk	reasonable questions I think.	21:17
timeless_office	for 4, a dvcs tells that to me because there are no new changesets	21:17
timeless_office	@nokia, we have a history of having really crappy version numbers	21:18
timeless_office	i've been told that versioning stories in meego are not necessarily much better	21:18
lcuk	I think that is a wider issue	21:18
CosmoHill	does the ovi suite have a export and import feature?	21:18
timeless_office	but roughly, if i have to download every single file you have, and extract each one, in order to determine that i'm not supposed to do anything	21:18
lcuk	from what I heard with RPM it has even more issues	21:18
lcuk	yes CosmoHill I believe it does	21:19
CosmoHill	cool, now if only I can get it to start	21:19
timeless_office	lcuk; but anyway, mxr.meego.com/repo.meego.com/source/ is RPM backed	21:19
timeless_office	and i've partially solved 3	21:19
timeless_office	well, not really 3	21:20
timeless_office	not <you=repo>	21:20
timeless_office	i've partially solved 3 for <you=rpm>	21:20
timeless_office	or <you=obs>	21:20
timeless_office	i have something which vaguely does something stupid to deal w/ some of them	21:20
timeless_office	roughly speaking, it crawls through repo.meego.com in search of /source/	21:20
timeless_office	and then it checks to see if the rpm's advertised match rpm's whose exact file names it already has	21:21
timeless_office	if they don't, it adds them to a list of things which it will digest	21:21
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timeless_office	and basically it slurps those and unpacks them and does work	21:21
timeless_office	and the work it does kind of works	21:21
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lcuk	timeless_office, is this kind of problem unique to mxr, or is it a problem that others would encounter and have to deal with?	21:23
alterego	Anyone know how you programmaticaly switch to the task switcher thumb view in meego handset?	21:23
timeless_office	lcuk: well, ali1234 has noted that discovering how to update from a release is painful	21:23
timeless_office	and that enabling a source repo is painful	21:23
timeless_office	and finding anything in meego.com is painful	21:23
ali1234	actually enabling the source repo was pretty easy	21:23
lcuk	timeless_office, that also comes from lbt with lack of versioning solidity	21:23
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ali1234	actually building something from it is kind of difficult though	21:24
timeless_office	oh right	21:24
lcuk	I notice that the OBS is coming up in internet searches now	21:24
ali1234	but i reported that bug and it's assigned	21:24
ali1234	so i guess someone is at least looking at it	21:24
timeless_office	anyway, most of the things i deal w/ affect some other people to some extent	21:24
timeless_office	but they definitely affect me a lot more than your average victim	21:24
timeless_office	and i need more stars aligned than your average victim	21:25
ali1234	right, same for the issues i tend to see	21:25
timeless_office	basically i tend to represent a proxy for everyone	21:25
timeless_office	and do each thing that everyone else would do many times	21:25
ali1234	mostly when i report a bug it ends up as a weird collision of 3 or more different problems	21:25
timeless_office	and if any of those things that they might try to do fails, it blocks me	21:25
timeless_office	whereas, they could do something else	21:25
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timeless_office	ali: 3 is such a low number	21:26
ali1234	3 or more :)	21:26
timeless_office	i tend to get stuck w/ 5-10 bug chains :)	21:26
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timeless_office	lcuk: anyway, i have my own obs vm to play w/	21:28
timeless_office	and i'm starting to look aroudn	21:28
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timeless_office	but basically i was told: "here's an obs"	21:29
timeless_office	"the source is somewhere, and it is the documentation"	21:29
Stskeeps	"and it's written in perl"	21:29
lcuk	hopefully well formed perl	21:30
timeless_office	oh, i hope you don't think http://mxr.meego.com/meego.gitorious.org/source/obs-project-config/ counts as documentation	21:31
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timeless_office	http://mxr.meego.com/meego.gitorious.org/source/boss-participant-requests/debian/changelog#6 is amusing	21:32
timeless_office	"Initial release" - not really, you're a stolen file!	21:32
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lcuk	that is the default file!	21:33
timeless_office	(to see that, use the dropdown at the bottom of the page and select the other version)	21:33
lcuk	:D	21:34
timeless_office	lcuk; in case you're wondering, MXR is doing that automatically	21:34
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timeless_office	now, it's not impossible to do something like this for a RPM backed system	21:34
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timeless_office	but... the most logical approach would in fact be to just have a digester which uses a DVCS system to commit the new version of sources it got from an RPM	21:35
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timeless_office	then people can go back in time just as easily as the can w/ an actual dvcs	21:35
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lcuk	yes, you seem to be doing a good job at that so far :)	21:36
timeless_office	but... to do that, i need the digester part to work	21:36
timeless_office	it's partly there	21:36
ali1234	digester?	21:36
timeless_office	it's still missing the fun bits like "is there some new work to do"	21:36
lcuk	yeah	21:36
timeless_office	ali1234; in my case, rpm2tree.pl or something	21:36
timeless_office	the thing whichi converts my rpm's into a source tree	21:36
timeless_office	s/chi/ch/	21:37
infobot	timeless_office meant: the thing which converts my rpm's into a source tree	21:37
ali1234	the thing that runs %prep?	21:37
timeless_office	yeah	21:37
timeless_office	prep is more or less the last thing it does	21:37
timeless_office	btw, see draft-repo.meego.com to see how prep is doing these days	21:38
timeless_office	http://mxr.meego.com/draft-repo.meego.com/source/	21:38
ali1234	i'm sure the original idea was to use git with obs	21:38
ali1234	that is, to use git to manage patches instead of whatever tool the packager wants to use in %prep	21:39
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timeless_office	anyway, i promised a colleague i'd meet him	21:41
* timeless_office is an hour late		21:41
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taiffu	Hi, is that to possible get gain my account to access MeeGo obs system?	22:00
Stskeeps	which one?	22:00
Stskeeps	build.meego.com is transparent but login access is given to those who need commit right to meego trunk	22:00
taiffu	build.meego.com	22:00
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Stskeeps	build.pub.meego.com is for community obs - ie, everything oss	22:01
taiffu	well I have one my own project what I like to try in obs	22:01
taiffu	so that build.pub.meego.com should be right place for me?	22:02
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taiffu	How I can access to build.pub.meego.com?	22:04
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gabrbedd	taiffu: (1) get a meego.com account (e.g. for the wiki), (2) contact lbt or X-Fade (in this channel), (3) confirm to them that you're working on OSS software and explain briefly what you intend to do on OBS.	22:05
taiffu	ok, thanks. I have that meego.com account	22:06
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w00t_	kaitlin__: ping :)	22:07
kaitlin__	w00t_: Hi =)	22:07
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w00t_	kaitlin__: I'm wondering why you differentiated between updateContact and updateAvatar cases, since they both seem to be pretty much the same sort of idea (changing details on a regular contact and saving it)	22:08
gabrbedd	taiffu: ok... now step 2. :-) (hint: type a message/request with their IRC nick's in it)	22:09
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kaitlin__	w00t_: I think that was a situation where an application wanted to set the avatar, but didn't want to specify all the data needed in the updateContact() case. mnementh - is that right? I don't think there was any other reason.	22:10
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w00t_	that's ok, they can still be merged afaik	22:12
w00t_	you don't need to change everything to save it	22:12
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mnementh	w00t_: yes this was for an outside request where via dbus any other app could change the avatar, photo app, dialer, etc. old request i think we've changed that model in the new applications that are sniffle not opensourced yet cough	22:18
mnementh	:)	22:19
w00t_	soon, though, right? ;)	22:19
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mnementh	crosses fingers	22:19
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ru-proton	Hi all! I'm using Gentoo Linux. I want to port my Qt Application to MeeGo. What I need to do?	22:22
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RST38h	Recompile it on Meego, fix any issues found.	22:23
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ru-proton	Thanks, cap) What I need to do? I downloaded meego-netbook-ia32-1.1.img, but it can't start on my VirtualBox.	22:25
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* CosmoHill giggles after installing the ovi suite		22:33
CosmoHill	"help nokia improve this software by sending diagnostic information"	22:33
CosmoHill	oh you'll be getting a lot of that	22:33
RST38h	Cosmo: Help Nokia by uninstalling the damn Ovi Suite =)	22:34
gabrbedd	ru-proton: I don't know if virtualbox works. Use the Qemu or Madde options.	22:34
gabrbedd	ru-proton: Or if you have some supported hardware... that'll work.	22:34
CosmoHill	RST38h: my desktop has decided (quiet wisely too) that is no longer wants to be part of this world	22:35
CosmoHill	I need (cos of border line OCD) to keep a record or my text messages and I want to keep the pics on my phone synced	22:35
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CosmoHill	I like they way it gives you the intro to setting up the ovi suite then goes "hello, where did all this data come from" cos I coped the require files from my desktop	22:36
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barroca	is there anyway to build a liveusb image from a running Meego system?	22:45
barroca	any way*	22:45
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gabrbedd	barroca: compressed fs or not?	22:48
barroca	gabrbedd: you mean on running system or on the usb?	22:49
* CosmoHill applauds the ovi suite		22:51
CosmoHill	I didn't copy over my pictures so it didn't display any, after I did it displayed all the thumb nails	22:51
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CosmoHill	but if I click on any it just gives me extra big thumb nail so pixalated you can't tell if it's a cat or your ex	22:52
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CosmoHill	even tho all the photos are there	22:52
w00t_	mnementh: can you explain the Me card to me?	22:52
gabrbedd	barroca: on the usb.	22:52
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gabrbedd	barroca: If not compressed... it's probably pretty easy: (1) partition USB for a /boot and / partitions, (2) rsync all the data onto the USB, (3) install extlinux on the USB.	22:53
barroca	gabrbedd: and compressed?	22:54
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mnementh	w00t_: It's a self contact card where at the top of your contact list you hold your personal information. your phone number, online status, etc. it's a feature that is added, removed, added, removed, i'm not sure what the latest is on it. I think we will support it but that could change tomorrow.	22:54
gabrbedd	barroca: If you want the root FS to be compressed on the USB... then I dunno.... prob. about the same except that you can't do it directly on the USB.	22:54
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w00t_	mnementh: hahah, sounds fun	22:54
CosmoHill	ah I see, the path to the images is hard coded, cos I have a different username on my laptop it can't find them	22:54
gabrbedd	baraujo: You'll have to master the file image off-line and then compress it to a squashfs or whatever it is.	22:55
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gabrbedd	barroca: ^^	22:55
w00t_	mnementh: I'm just wondering if it is possible to be done a little easier than it is now.. seems a bit complicated thinks	22:55
gabrbedd	barroca: I've never tried to do that by hand before.	22:55
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gabrbedd	barroca: Anyway, I don't know of any existing tools to easily clone a running system to a USB.	22:55
barroca	gabrbedd: http://www.linux-live.org/	22:55
barroca	but this tool uses aufs that cannot be patched into meego kernel.	22:56
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barroca	i was wondering if Mic (MeeGo image creator) could do the job.	22:56
mnementh	w00t_: i completely agree i think it might be easier to supply that information seperately then trying to make it fit into the contactmodel since it houses only a subset of information and none of the delete,favorite actions	22:56
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gabrbedd	barroca: I meant a running /MeeGo/ system. :-p	22:57
mnementh	i need to interface with Sync as well to make sure there aren't other managers that might dump "me" data into the backend	22:57
gabrbedd	barroca: ...and linux-live doesn't look "easy" :-)	22:57
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gabrbedd	barroca: Mic2 probably doesn't use the job... but that's where you need to look to learn how to do it.	22:58
w00t_	mnementh: is createMeCard invoked by any external users of SeasideSyncModel that you know of? or can I quietly move it away from public API :)	22:58
mnementh	w00t_: i'm on hold on that feature for now so I haven't revisited it yet, waiting for managers to figure out what i'm supposed to do. :) meanwhile code on.	22:58
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gabrbedd	barroca: It could probably be modified to do what you're talking about.	22:58
mnementh	w00t_: it was once used by dialer but i think it can be moved away from public API	22:58
barroca	gabrebedd: yes, i think this is the path. linux-live is too unfriendly	22:59
w00t_	thanks; done :)	22:59
mnementh	w00t_: just make sure dialer isn't using it or i will get a nerf dart in my cube :P	22:59
w00t_	I will double check that dialer and people build against this when I'm done, I'll even test people - but I can't easily test dialer as I don't have anything to run it on atm	22:59
gabrbedd	barroca: mic2 installs everything in a chroot in /var/cache/meego-bootstrap (or something like that)...	23:00
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gabrbedd	barroca: After it's done, it gets transferred to a squashfs image... which gets placed in ... erm... something else... which gets put into... um... the stick. thingie.	23:01
* gabrbedd is feeling like Strongbad		23:02
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barroca	hehehe	23:03
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barroca	i will take a look on the code and see if i can get this running.	23:03
* CosmoHill goes to suddenly learn sqlite		23:04
barroca	thanks	23:04
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gabrbedd	gabrbedd: my pleasure! Hope it helped!	23:06
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gabrbedd	CosmoHill: .schema	23:07
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CosmoHill	I think I've found the table I want, now to view it's contents	23:07
CosmoHill	found it	23:07
gabrbedd	CosmoHill: That's just regular SQL. :-)	23:07
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CosmoHill	now for find and replace in a table	23:08
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CosmoHill	found something, let's see if it works	23:11
gabrbedd	whatcha find?	23:11
CosmoHill	no idea why ovi store 1. doesn't use ${USER}/Pictueres instead of a direct path and 2. why it needs to store the path twice	23:12
gabrbedd	do you already know SQL... or is that a new adventure, too?	23:12
gabrbedd	it makes it more enterprise-ey that way.	23:12
CosmoHill	I;m mid way through a SQL assignment	23:12
CosmoHill	gabrbedd: the only difference is that one is lowercase	23:12
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berndhs	SQL was a mistake :P	23:13
CosmoHill	my biggest issue here is that I am using sqlite in the first place	23:13
CosmoHill	I should be able to change the location images are stored without having to brake into the database	23:14
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CosmoHill	dammit, ovi hide in my task bar instead of actually closing	23:16
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gabrbedd	why would a user ever want to have control of the programs running on their computer? That just doesn't make sense!	23:17
gabrbedd	</sarcasm>	23:17
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* CosmoHill slaps ovi for saying "this phone is synced" when it fecking isn't		23:29
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* CosmoHill slaps ovi with the other hand for getting two completely different people with the same surname confused		23:34
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wazd	Hola all :)	23:39
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barroca	gabrbedd: i think this will do the job: http://sourceforge.net/projects/livebackup/files/livebackup/	23:40
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barroca	or not.	23:52
w00t_	mnementh: I hope you won't be afraid at the size of this patch..	23:52
w00t_	it's getting rather large	23:52
w00t_	but it fixes a number of bugs I spotted along the way, both async and non-async related	23:52
w00t_	and generally (I think) makes things saner	23:52
mnementh	w00t_: ok. might take me longer to review it. it's easier if it's broken up into logical bug fixes but i know that's not always possible	23:53
gabrbedd	barroca: :-)	23:53
w00t_	unfortunately not, this is pretty much all interwoven	23:53
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barroca	i think that may be simple as that: http://imrannazar.com/Booting-Linux-from-Flash	23:56
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