IRC log of #meego for Monday, 2011-03-14

« Sunday, 2011-03-13 Index Tuesday, 2011-03-15 »
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valianholtouuuu, just purchased aavamobile.info domain00:10
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vljhi00:12
vljvgrade: ping00:12
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valianholtmaybe I should put some blog on it, but it's almost nothing to write about yet00:14
valianholtaavvamobile.com/org/net/us were taken by Aava, info not :)00:15
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thiago_homevalianholt: you know they own the trademark to Aava, right?00:19
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valianholtthiago_home: yes, I didn't say I would use it for some comercial puposes, maybe just some blog about Aava products :)00:20
thiago_homethey may still not like it00:20
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thiago_homeit's too close to their domain00:21
valianholtthiago_home: so by law they can still forbid me that usage of the domain?00:21
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thiago_homenot law00:21
thiago_homebut the domain dispute rules00:21
vgradevlj, hi00:21
thiago_homeif they feel like you're hurting their business, they can simply go after the domain and force you to give it to them00:21
vljvgrade: I updated my emgd package for opensuse 11.400:22
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vljit uses xorg 1.900:22
vljyou may want to have a look to port it on meego ;)00:22
valianholtforce to give it to them or sell it to them?00:22
vljhttps://build.opensuse.org/package/show?package=emgd&project=home%3Avlj%3AT91MT00:22
vljwait a moment it is uploading00:22
vgradevlj, we are running with the 1821 driver00:22
vlj1821 ?00:22
valianholtbecause if it goes to the point, that I won't use it at all, I want at least my fees back00:22
vgradeat the moment00:22
vljthe version on the website is 181600:23
thiago_homevalianholt: force to give00:23
vljvgrade: were did you get this driver ?00:23
valianholtthiago_home :(00:23
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vgradesorry 1812,00:23
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vgradewe also have 1875 packaged for meego00:23
thiago_homevalianholt: unless you'd simply sell for a value less than the cost of the dispute resolution, which isn't very high00:23
vljvgrade: it is on meego repository ?00:23
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vljvgrade: were did you find this 1875 driver ?00:24
valianholtthiago_home: I've also got gitorius.info, it was cheap, for $3, so why not00:24
vgradevlj, http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-commits/2011-March/017686.html00:24
valianholtthiago_home: gitorious.info *00:24
vgradesorry thats the kernel commit00:24
thiago_homevalianholt: tbh, it's better to have you rather than a squatter00:24
thiago_homevalianholt: but if the owners of the domains come contact you, you should just sell the domain at cost00:25
vljvgrade: it is possible to grab the userspace part ?00:25
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vgradehttp://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-commits/2011-March/017687.html00:25
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valianholtthiago_home I just deactivated WHOIS privacy yesterday, because I realized that with WHOIS privacy nobody will be able to contact me00:25
vljvgrade: btw is there an image of meego with emgd driver which is not aimed at joggler ? the joggler img does not boot on my netbook00:26
vgradevlj, lbt tried the 1875 userspace today which did not work00:26
vgradevlj, can you build a ks00:26
valianholtthiago_home: for sure, I am open to sell these domains to the trademark owner, as I like gitorious and aavamobile projects, just if they would want it, I would need my fees back :)00:27
vljvgrade: not yet... mic2 does not work on opensuse 11.4 :/00:27
valianholtthiago_home: but till that time happens, I would try to experiment with some blog or something :)00:27
vgradevlj, I use a fc13 vm, downloaded a virtualbox image.  Just the thing for mic building00:28
valianholtthiago_home: anyway, thx for all the info :)00:28
vljwill think of it00:29
vgradevlj, you may have to port the kernel patches to netbook kernel as it looks like they are only in automotive00:29
vljhave to go now sorry :/00:29
vgradebye00:29
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priyankahi I am trying to build meego 1.1 release through my OBS, using the meego1.1 repo for import. the packages in core fail giving the error http://pastie.org/1669106 , can some one provide some pointers in this regard07:24
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priyankaall packages in my meego1.1 project iing the error : ImportError: /lib/libnssutil3.so: undefined symbol: PL_ClearArenaPool  , using meego 1.1. source code and imported meego 1.1 release for setig up project07:29
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nickzhouinfo08:47
*** kimitake is now known as kimitake_idle08:47
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nickzhouquit08:50
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kchai1test08:55
slonopotamuskchai1: the problem is that you cannot determine whether test passed until someone answers you08:55
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Termanamorning09:48
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bkalingahi,10:30
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bkalingaMy intention is to build  libmeegoimframework.so  taking the latest src code from /meego.gitorious.org so that i can debug the code flow can some one help me in this regard, I have Madde installed and able to run Handset UX on QEMU10:32
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pupnikgood noon13:08
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CosmoHillhi pupnik13:16
pupnikhola CosmoHill13:17
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bkalingahi all, getting an error while building IMFramework13:20
bkalingamake[1]: *** No rule to make target `../../meegotouch-inputmethodframework/src/mdbusglibicconnectionserviceglue.h',13:20
bkalinganeeded by `.obj/minputcontextglibdbusconnection.o'.  Stop.13:20
CosmoHill~pastbin13:20
CosmoHill~pastbin?13:20
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CosmoHill~pastebin13:21
infobot[~pastebin] A "pastebin" is a web-based service where you should paste anything over 3 lines so you don't flood the channel. Here are links to a few : http://www.pastebin.com , http://pastebin.ca , http://channels.debian.net/paste , http://paste.lisp.org , http://bin.cakephp.org/ , http://asterisk.pastey.net/ , or install pastebinit with yum or aptitude.13:21
CosmoHillthere we go13:21
bkalingahttp://pastebin.com/QL5kq4Qz13:21
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jbosmhm http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-sharing-framework is this meego core compliant?14:35
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jbosok its depending on meego touch :(14:38
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w00t_mikhas: dear god, have you been feeding the vkb steroids?14:39
w00t_it's so much faster14:39
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mikhasw00t_, I got rid of Qt14:45
mikhasj/k14:45
w00t_;)14:45
w00t_good job, though14:45
mikhasbut yes, I simplified drawing in QGV, added some nice hacks there14:45
mikhaswhich sadly exposed a memleak in QPixmap14:45
mikhasI should write about the QGraphicsView hack, it could be useful for others14:46
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mikhasbut biggest performance improvement comes from sidestepping the window compositor where possible14:46
lcukmikhas, bug 14411 is unfortunate but hopefully curable, I tried looking elsewhere for similar bug report bug could not find a match14:46
_MeeeGoBot_Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14411 nor, Undecided, ---, x2rich, NEW, [Trunk: Testing] Tapping on key when VKB is in portrait mode outputs key in the row above.14:46
lcukand I am not sure if it occurs there14:47
mikhaslcuk, can be adjusted through CSS14:47
mikhasI'll comment on the bug14:47
lcukmikhas, it looks like a gatepost error14:47
lcukrather than a css tweak14:47
mikhaslcuk, basically, it's device-specific14:48
mikhashm14:48
lcuksee the video14:48
mikhasping me later again, ie, this evening14:48
lcukk14:48
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berndhsmorning15:04
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lcukhi berndhs15:08
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jonnorlcuk: its a feature :) Commenting on bugreport now15:09
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lcukjonnor, bug 14411?15:11
_MeeeGoBot_Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14411 nor, Undecided, ---, x2rich, NEW, [Trunk: Testing] Tapping on key when VKB is in portrait mode outputs key in the row above.15:11
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jonnorlcuk: yes15:13
lcukjonnor, sure, but its gateposting is off!15:13
lcukRow 0..1 should be qwerty,   row 1..2 should be asdfg   etc  instead it gets:15:15
lcukRow 0..1.49 should be qwerty,   row 1.5..2.49 should be asdfg   etc15:16
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lcukmikhas, btw, nicely done on the compositor tweaking btw :)15:22
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lcukif there are any general optimisations which were discovered and which could be passed onto other teams15:23
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mikhasjpetersen could blog about it, perhaps15:28
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jonnorlcuk: ok, commented on https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1441115:29
_MeeeGoBot_Bug 14411 nor, Undecided, ---, x2rich, NEW, [Trunk: Testing] Tapping on key when VKB is in portrait mode outputs key in the row above.15:29
mikhaslcuk, that compositing is generally slow is widely known, I guess15:29
mikhasthe wayland hype exists for a reason15:30
jonnormikhas: also good ones you mean :)15:30
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mikhasjonnor, ?15:30
mikhasGOD - jonn*er, jonn*or, jonn*i - all in one channel15:31
* mikhas waits for j0nn* variants15:31
jonnormikhas: the wayland hype exists also for good resons you mean15:31
jonnor(the most common reason for hype seems to be the often uninformed statement that "X sucks")15:31
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mikhas"X sucks" is the wrong simplification of "Compositing in X could be faster", yes15:33
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jonnoryes, and other 'reasons' like "it does more than I need" and "it is old"15:35
javispedroyou might want to figure out how apple does it :P15:35
jonnorjavispedro: does what? compositing?15:35
javispedroyep15:35
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jonnorit is integral to the windowing system/server there, similar to wayland15:36
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javispedroactually, it is integral to their 3d driver.15:36
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javispedroI think all applications share one GL context there.15:38
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mikhasjavispedro, I doubt that15:38
mikhasthis could potentially make things slower if you always need to aquire the GL context15:39
lcukbiggest compositing thing, if you have 9 800*480 applications, there is a total surface area of 2400*1440 to be filled.15:39
lcukthen compressed down to visual size15:39
berndhsI just hope wayland will support remove display15:40
berndhss/remove/remote/15:40
infobotberndhs meant: I just hope wayland will support remote display15:40
mikhaslcuk, that's what things like QGraphicsView try to solve15:40
mikhas(and fail at that)15:40
javispedromikhas: they're monotasking, after all.15:40
javispedrothe boilerplate to get somewhere to render on a iPhone resembles more our boilerplate for getting a renderbuffer15:40
lcukmikhas, couple that with the process itself doing work in CPU/GPU to render to its surface, then passing it on to the gpu for compositing ontop15:41
javispedro(because it is what it is)15:41
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jonnorhmm, in wayland, the server is the window manager also, so it could potentially enforce a window stack where all (at least application) windows cover eachother fully. And then optimize draws from the client in the case where a fully opaque window covers it..15:44
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javispedroI do not think you need wayland for that..15:44
javispedrothe webos and (maemo) diablo's telescope app for ex have no compositor at all, but the "task switching view" simply gets a periodic screenshot of the apps.15:45
javispedro(not entirely true, both have some kind of "damage"-like thing to avoid unnecessary wakeups)15:46
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ali1234bug 1432015:53
_MeeeGoBot_Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14320 nor, High, ---, shane.bryan, NEW, Unable to make emergency call whether SIM card inserted or not15:53
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ali1234how does one go about testing something like that without getting done for wasting police time?15:53
Stskeepsali1234: test networks15:53
ali1234does that involve special hardware i can't afford?15:53
Stskeepsthe 8-ball says yes15:54
ali1234ok, fair enough then i guess15:55
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timeless_officesp3000: you around today?16:07
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timeless_officedawnfoster: ping16:08
timeless_office!summon dawnfoster16:08
sp3000around office, not this week16:08
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* timeless_office tries parsing16:09
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* timeless_office retries parsing\16:09
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* timeless_office continues retrying parsing16:09
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* timeless_office fails16:09
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timeless_officeback next week?16:09
* lbt suggests rpn research16:09
timeless_officelbt: any idea where bug 3654 comes from?16:11
_MeeeGoBot_Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=3654 tri, Low, ---, ning.w.wang, ASSI, "MeeGo 1.0 Core Update- i686 - Debug Packages" is missing a space after "Update"16:11
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sp3000timeless_office: right :)16:11
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lbtpreloaded file I think16:12
timeless_officewell, something generates that file, right?16:13
lbtrpm -q search should tell you which pkg owns them16:13
timeless_officeassume i'm kinda short on live images right now..16:14
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lbtme too ... and not massively worried about a " " char ;)16:14
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lbtquite possibly comes from the OBS project description16:14
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timeless_officeis obs something you have more access to than me?16:18
timeless_officeor rather...16:18
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lbtI dug around for a couple of mins but it's not worth more time than that.... I'll keep it in mind though16:22
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lundtoranyone experienced with qflasher to make qemu NAND image?16:27
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bobnxsvia meego: best way to irc on meego?16:32
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Stskeepsssh+irssi16:32
Stskeeps:P16:32
* bobnxs <3's irony16:32
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bobnxshaha rly? that's the best method?16:32
bobnxscan't i install irssi on this mother?16:32
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Stskeepsprobably can16:33
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bobnxsthe old fashioned way, wget or a deb or something?16:33
lcukbobnxs, technically xchat is available for netbook, but will need build/test/tweaking for handset afaik16:33
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bobnxshm thx lcuk16:33
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bobnxsi guess i'll try to bang something together later. thx to you too, sts16:39
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Sagelbt: ping19:08
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lbtpong19:08
Sageso about that Team:XBMC project in build.pub.meego.com, it is possible to get?19:09
lbtso I said to carsten earlier.... we just need a proposal from 'you' about the policies for the area19:09
lbtand that may end up being a kind of org chart19:09
lbtso who's the maintainers19:09
lbtwho do IT come to when there are problems19:10
lbtensure that you have some 'right' to be MeeGo's XBMC19:10
lbtclarify relationship with upstream19:10
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lbteg what do we do if the upstream xbmc guys say "hey... we're already porting it to meego"19:11
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SageWell, I have no real connection to upstream more than the thing that I have packaged it for meego currently.19:11
thiago_homehave you seen the qt media hub?19:11
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lbtprobably not an issue here .... but you know... just have some notes19:11
Stskeepsthiago_home: i was wondering if there was a video of that actually19:11
thiago_homethere must be...19:12
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Sagelbt: not sure what kind of connections arfoll has though.19:12
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lbtSage: so have some vague statement saying that and maybe explaining how you plan to establish a connection (if indeed you do)19:13
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Sagelbt: but sure if there is a problem I can take the problem to the upstream if that is what is needed.19:13
thiago_homeStskeeps: can't find it, of course19:13
arfollSage, i know enough to know they are not porting to meego. I've posted a few patches and am usually on IRC.19:13
arfolli've been advertising meego packages on #xbmc-linux and #xbmc on their forums for nearly a year now19:14
lbtdon't get me wrong ... I don't really mind one way or the other19:14
lbtI just think it makes sense ... also maybe you could announce the formation of the team - some goals etc and allow others to join in the formation19:15
* Stskeeps ponders idly if you can dlopen a non-fpic executable on x8619:15
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* pupnik watches 19:15
arfolllbt, we could start a wiki page with team:xbmc however having an OBS project open would give us credibility and a good starting point19:15
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lbtarfoll: I was just looking at the wiki19:16
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SageWiki would be nice start. However if there isn't any this kind of teams yet I think the layout should be though a bit so it would be easy to add new teams when they 'popup'19:17
Sagelike /cobs/teams/xbmc or something?19:17
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lbtI thought Team: would be for biggish projects ... KDE sprang to mind19:18
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* arfoll starts to wonder why meego stuff has so much paper/virtual work...19:18
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arfolllbt, well what would you prefer we do?19:18
lbtarfoll: 'cos we don't know what we're doing ... we have to make it up as we go along19:18
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lbtand it makes sense to think about it a *little* bit :)19:18
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* Stskeeps thought Team: was more along lines of anything >1 person needs to collaborate on19:19
Stskeeps:P19:19
lbtStskeeps: maybe it should be19:19
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lbtbut what about a little app with 2 people working on it?19:20
arfollteam makes sense to me as long as we make sure it's "team meego: xbmc"19:20
arfollas the xbmc devs often call themselves team xbmc19:20
Sagelbt: also another thing is that do we have list like http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Build_Service_application_blacklist for cobs and if not will we have list like that at some point?19:20
lbtno, yes19:20
ali1234meego+xbmc would be interesting if it was actually a whole UX in it's own right19:20
lbtright now the requirement is "don't break the law"19:20
arfollSage, one problme at a time19:20
lbtI have no idea which law19:20
lbtor what breaks it19:20
arfollali1234, see the amino freedom demo at meego conf?19:21
Sagewhat about app:xbmc?19:21
arfoll^ i'm fine with app:xbmc19:21
ali1234arfoll: i might have, which conf, and which demo?19:21
Sagethen it would not be restricted to that "team"19:21
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lbtwe have a fairly large namespace :)19:21
arfollali1234, dublin 2010 - intel technology stand. or IDF 2010 keynote19:21
ali1234yeah i saw that19:22
xevhi everyone.19:22
arfollthat was XBMC as a UX on amino freedom19:22
xevnmap is compatible with meego?19:22
ali1234i thought they made their own UX from scratch?19:22
ali1234it certainly didn't*look* like xbmc19:22
arfollali1234, for their customer telecom italia.19:22
arfollthe one on show was a skinned XBMC made for demos by yours truly19:23
ali1234fair enough19:23
Sagearfoll: you work with the amino tv project?19:23
arfollSage, just the xbmc on amino tv part19:23
Sagearfoll: well I talked with some of the people in the stand at dublin at some point ;)19:24
xevif anyone using nmap on meego, let me know.19:24
lbtxev: don't know if it's built. It is compatible.19:24
lbtxev: MeeGo is just another linux distro19:25
arfollSage, you may have talked to me then19:25
Sagearfoll: hehe19:25
xevlbt: ok, thanks for the answer.. I'l try to compile it19:25
arfollanyways so whats the verdict, can we get an app:xbmc or team:xbmc and what should we do to get one? You can put me and Sage as maintainers and people to complain to19:25
lbtxev: use the community OBS19:25
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Sagearfoll: give it a bit time :)19:26
arfolltrue, i'm getting ahead of myself...19:27
Sagewhat about app:media:xbmc as wel, but would there be any advantage of this?19:27
lbtSage: I wondered that19:27
lbtI'm thinking a few things : we need to avoid application/package naming collisions19:27
lbtso it kinda makes sense to keep it flat19:27
Sagetrue19:27
lbtOTOH it can be a pain with many many apps in a list19:28
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Sagelbt: but will :media: etc make it easier?19:28
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arfollWe could use the rpm categories to make categories?19:28
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lbtSage: do you know what gmpc does?19:28
Sagebut then that would mean that only the app would be there and the libs it requires would need to be in separate project?19:29
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lbtyes19:29
arfolllbt, is this going back to putting all libraries in "surrounds" or similar?19:29
Sagethat would make the build repo requirements hell.19:29
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lbtarfoll: yes19:29
lbtarfoll: but home->Team->surrounds19:29
arfolllbt, that would be nice19:29
lbtas you go through a dev->release cycle19:30
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lbtI think Team should be used by people who need to pull multiple apps/libs together for a consolidatin phase pre-release19:31
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Sagelbt: but then devel:xbmc would be ok as well. if that would be only statging area19:31
arfolllbt, so you'd put team:xbmc:surrounds team:xbmc:devel and team:xbmc:release?19:31
lbtarfoll: the sub-structure is up to you19:31
arfolllbt, ok19:31
lbtbut that could be sane19:31
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arfollthat's not too different to what i do allready in home:arfoll19:32
lbtwe spent a lot of time on this in Nokia and are working to release the processes we use(d)19:32
SageI'm just wondering if that makes too much forking in the end and people will have same lib compiled in mulitple places at some point19:33
lbtSage: agree - there needs to be a balance19:33
lbtI think devel - test - release - (archives)19:33
SageI just mean that in the end it would be the best if everything would end up to the extras/surrounds i.e., MeeGo:surrounds19:33
arfollSage, i disagree19:34
lbtand there's an implicit 'home/hack' prior to that19:34
arfollwith one repo you'll end up with dependancy hell as everyone will want a diff version of a library etc...19:34
lbtarfoll: good19:34
lbtyep19:34
Sagee.g., xbmc has mulitple libs it needs to build and at some point many others needs those as well.19:34
lbtIt would be nice to have a few projects coordinating to a release in surrounds19:34
arfolli think people will have to use common sense and all elect one maintainer for one lib and trust them. And override them when they want something a little different19:35
lbtbut it also makes sense to have meego/xbmc appliances19:35
arfollSage, for those libs it would be good if people viewed our packages as the 'authority' for those packages19:35
lbt*nod*19:35
lbtwe also have an embryonic ITP process19:35
arfolli tried to share packages with zigbee (see home:zigbee) but he was unresponsive to say the least. Hopefully not all will be the same19:35
Sageyes, but would those people then a) copypac those to their own project b) compile against xbmc project19:36
lbtyes... zigbee is a slight anti-pattern :)19:36
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lbtSage: ideally they'd build against Surrounds19:36
arfollSage, depending - either they would branch because they want just one package or to modify it, ore they will compile against our "surrounds" to create their own xbmc build for example19:36
Sagelbt: team:xbmc:surrounds ?19:37
lbtno MeeGo:Surrounds19:37
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Sagearfoll: ok, lets say user X wants to install XBMC and media-center-app-X they put team:xbmc:surrounds and team:media-x:surrounds to the meego repo dir and they have conflict with packages19:38
lbtyep...19:38
Sagewe can't assume user is installing with only the team project in addition to meego19:38
arfollSage, yes and they'll have to choose what library they want to keep19:38
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Sagearfoll: libx-version-xbmc-mod1 or libx-version-media-x-mod219:39
lbtSage: that is bad ... but unavoidable19:39
lbtunless you commit to building XBMC against Surrounds19:39
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arfollSage, but then the user ends up with mutlitple of the same libs installed and thats really really ugly19:40
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SageI'm just saying that xbmc requires for example requires id3lib and that lib isn't actually part of XBMC and thus should not be in team:xbmc:surrounds19:40
arfolllbt, yes we'd build against surrounds19:40
Sageafter all we are pro opensource and every modification that is needed should be upstreamed right?19:41
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Sageso the mod should end up in the id3lib for example in this case and noe -modX versions would be needed19:41
lbtSage: correct, it should not be in Team:XBMC:Surrounds19:41
lbthowever.... you may test a newer version of it in Team:XBMC:Testing19:41
Sagethe COBS isn't a product package builder so we should not accept modifications like that19:42
Sagelbt: well isn't MeeGo:surrounds:testing for that?19:42
lbtSage: mmm19:42
Sagetesting a new version that is. or actually home:user:branches:team:xbmc19:42
lbtI can see both being used19:43
arfolllbt, in that case we would need access to meego:surrounds as well as app:xbmc19:43
lbtSurrounds:Testing is like "the next RC for Surrounds"19:43
lbtyour release cycle may be out of sync19:43
arfolllbt, and then there is little point in making a seperate repo for xbmc, it may as well live in Meego:extras or similar19:43
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Sagehome:user:branches:team:xbmc -> team:xbmc -> MeeGo:surrounds:Testing -> MeeGo:Surrounds ?19:44
lbtarfoll: yep19:44
lbtSage: yep19:44
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lbtarfoll: Team isn't *needed* ... it's there to help a team coordinate19:44
SageIn my opinion that would be the only way to go so we don't get too much forking around.19:44
arfollSage, i think you're right19:44
lbtand if you guys drive the maintainership of a bunch of libs... that may be useful19:44
* lcuk gingerly raises hand and wonders what happens when xbmc want to test updated version of core upstream library (which is not yet moved to core)19:45
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lbtlcuk: we do this... I call it peek-ahead19:45
lbtit's about detecting upcoming breakage19:46
lcukroger, good to know19:46
arfolllbt, we would obviously maintain the xbmc deps at least at first unless others are willing/feel they'd do a better job or they end up being shared by another project19:46
lbtarfoll: *nod*19:46
Sagelbt: sure19:46
lcukarfoll, where does normal upstream xbmc work happen at the mmoment?19:47
arfollthey way i see it it's win win for any linux media app wanting to compile on meego19:47
arfolllcuk, they've recently changed, gone from SVN+trac to github19:47
lbtso... a Team: area is to do integration testing of multiple apps19:47
arfollbasically file a pull request from a personal git branch on github and a bug in trac. they are very responsive19:47
lbtTeam:XBMC may include some backend code from upstream and some MeeGo specific scripts and some MeeGo UI code19:48
lbtall different packages19:48
arfolllbt, unlikely we are more likely to have patches to xbmc19:49
lcukis it easy to get the changes and patches back out of obs into a github/gitorious MR?19:49
Sagelbt: so those dependency libs should be submitted to MeeGo:Surrounds:Testing ?19:49
arfolllcuk, other way around, patches are done on git, then put into OBS/RPM pacakge19:50
lbtarfoll: OK ... rats... I'd hoped for that model19:50
lbtSage: yes19:50
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lbtI wonder if it should be Surrounds:Devel ... to mimic core19:50
Sage?19:50
arfolllbt, i agree it would be cleaner, but we are going to have patches. We are also probably going to have at least two xbmc packages. one for xbmc with openGL and one xbmc with GLES19:50
lbtOK ... so where does libid3 live ?19:52
lbterr id3lib19:52
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Sagelbt: at our home currently19:52
lbthehe19:52
arfolllbt, currently home:sage:xbmc and home:arfoll:xbmc and lots of other places19:52
Sagelbt: and that is not the only one there is about 5-20 requirement libs ;)19:52
Sagedepending of how extensive build of XBMC we want to have19:53
Sagemy home has 9 dependency libs19:53
lbtI'd like to understand the gateway to getting id3lib into a Surrounds release19:53
Sagehome:x: -> MeeGo:surrounds:Testing19:54
lbteg what if it breaks the MythTV app19:54
arfollSage, mine has a few more (i'd rather we go for an extensive build otherwise we'll just get forks all over the place)19:54
Sagelbt: well that is why I suggested only upstream to MeeGo:Surrounds19:55
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lbtso I'm tempted to drop all these packages into Surrounds:Devel once each has a maintainer identified19:55
lbtand then promote to S:Testing when they build19:56
lbtthen build XBMC against that19:56
Sage... Surrounds:Devel?19:56
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Sagehome:user:branches:team:xbmc -> team:xbmc -> MeeGo:Surrounds:Devel -> MeeGo:surrounds:Testing -> MeeGo:Surrounds ?19:57
arfolllbt, that would be ideal i think. only fully upstream packages without patches can get in MeeGo:surrounds everyhting else has to live in team/app something19:57
Sageor is MeeGo:Surrounds:Devel only a replacement for team:x for package that do not have team?19:57
lbtSage: for id3lib ?19:57
lbtSage: yes19:57
Sageah, ok19:57
lbtarfoll: yes... I had a suggestion about that19:58
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lbtessentially it's an idea about porting vs maintaining19:58
Sageand how maintainership requires is done, with osc cr ?19:58
lbtand having an upstream 'donor' distro like opensuse19:58
arfolllbt, but if we use donor distro's we won't have nice yaml'ified packages...19:58
lbtSage: yes ... need to work on that ... we have BOSS in Nokia (and now community) so it can get involved too19:59
Sagelbt: also where are the submit requirest shown?19:59
lbtarfoll: but we will avoid reinventing wheels (and security monitoring)19:59
lbtSage: dunno :)19:59
Sageis there cobs-commits ML or something?19:59
Sagebecause that is really a MUST so people can actually see what changes there are and they can review those20:00
arfolllbt, ok so we'd only be allowed to use in surrounds stuff from let's say opensuse?20:00
lbtarfoll: see http://mer-l-in.blogspot.com/2011/01/meego-community-development-apps.html  halfway down : Porting vs Maintaining : A MeeGo partner20:00
arfolli can see the advantage, i can live with it20:01
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lbtarfoll: actually that blog is about the "too much paperwork" you mentioned :)20:02
Sagequestion, if someone wants to "yamlify" a package that has been previously copied from e.g. opensuse would that be ok?20:02
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lbtSage: common sense20:03
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arfolllbt, could we agree on having to use the same patches and tarball (ie sources) as the upstream distro?20:03
arfolleg opensuse?20:03
lbtyes20:03
lbtthat's the idea20:03
arfolllbt, ok then that makes total sense20:03
lbtnot to be *too* rigid20:03
Sagedarn I still have the fever :(20:04
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arfolli'm onboard with that20:04
lbtmy idea is "porting means no code patches"20:04
lbtjust file location and maybe init script hacking20:04
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lbtno libssl patches ;)20:04
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arfolllbt, ok sounds good. tbh i'm not looking for any patches in any of our dependancies. at the moment me nor Sage do any (i don't think so anyways)20:05
lbtotherwise it moves to 'maintainer'20:05
lbtso I'd like to streamline the 'porting' activity somehow20:05
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SageI think it would be nice to have a indicator somewhere in OBS if the package is in 'porting' or 'maintaining'20:06
arfolllbt, nice article i'll have to add to my blog reading list.20:06
Sagehowever the obs doesn't currently support this I guess.20:06
lbtSage: yep... that's important20:06
lbtno, but pkgdb could20:06
Sagethis is important for the Surrounds:Testing review dudes who accept patches.20:07
lbtyes20:07
lbtbut that dude should be a robot for "porting" (BOSS)20:07
arfollok i have to get home. but lbt & Sage thanks i'll be back on in a bit if you need more talk20:09
lbtthanks.... need to find a way to write this up20:10
arfolllbt, actually one last question, you've made Surrounds:netbook and others. how does that fit into your idea?20:10
lbthttp://wiki.meego.com/Community_Office/Task_Forces/MeeGo_Surrounds_and_Extras20:10
lbtarfoll: mmm that was based on how core worked20:10
lbtI think it needs a rething20:10
lbtk20:10
arfollto me XBMC is neither netbook/ivi/handset. it can run in all three20:10
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lbtyes - but would you have different UIs for them ?20:11
CosmoHillI've just thought, my server uptime is longer than the OBS servers are old20:11
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lbtand actually that's more of a user-facing app decision20:12
lbtrather than Surrounds20:12
arfolllbt, no users may download extra 'themes' though20:12
gabrbeddCosmoHill: No kernel upgrades?20:12
lbtso I'm happy to re-think it20:12
CosmoHillnope20:12
CosmoHillnever got ksplice to work20:13
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arfolllbt, it may make more sense for other applications but i think for XBMC it's a UX independant thing (in fact as alil1234 said it's basically a UX in it's own right)20:13
Sage^ +120:13
lbt*nod* .... but you may still have to target multiple repos20:14
lbtas in "publish to"20:14
arfolllbt, i'd like to target just Meego:core and publish for 1.0/1.1/current20:14
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lbtit's not a big deal - I think this goes more to the "Extras" side of things20:14
Sageok, another tihng is that multiple distros thing.20:14
lbtSage: oh yes20:15
arfolli don't believe there is anything in netbook/ivi/handset that gives us any advantage20:15
Sagegrr.. multiple releases thing20:15
arfollSage, are there any packages that you use in netbook/ivi/handset for your build?20:15
SageI mean some app require patchY for MeeGo 1.1 but doesn't require it for MeeGo 1.2 is there a way to do this?20:15
lbtarfoll: OTOH ..... you're not the typical case we need to cope with..... so life may be suboptimal for you ... sry20:15
lbtSage: yes20:16
lbtSage: MeeGo should provide a meego-release in the prjconf which the spec can depend on20:16
arfolllbt, of course, but maybe treating the xbmc project like an alternative UX instead of an application on a UX would be better20:16
Sagelbt: last time I tried that didn't work, but please let me know how to use it20:17
lbtarfoll: mmm20:17
lbtarfoll: at that point I think you become an image/distro/spin20:17
lcukarfoll, when you release onto linux distros, you have to submit to each distro (one for maemo, one for ubuntu etc) now don't you?20:17
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Sagearfoll: what do you mean with netbook/ivi/handset thing?20:17
arfolllcuk, true but my idea was to submit to core20:18
lbtarfoll: I'd aim for the 'Extras' channel initially20:18
arfollSage, look at how the Surrounds subdirs are arranged20:18
PaCeimal ovde zena... Xd20:18
lbtarfoll: and I'd argue that MeeGo core should be shrinking, not growing20:18
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lbtarfoll: ... >  http://mer-l-in.blogspot.com/2011/02/what-now-for-meego.html20:18
Sagearfoll: AFAIK that is just old thing and will get restructure, right lbt?20:18
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Sageand no nothing from those20:19
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StskeepsMeeGo is one big trunk nowadays, really :P20:19
lbtStskeeps: with emacs in it20:19
arfollStskeeps, and we are just running around it in circles?20:19
lbtwhich is, IMHO, dumb20:19
arfolllbt, i meant targetting trunk (as it building against it)20:19
lcuklbt, fan of Vi20:19
lcuk?20:19
arfolltargetting core sorry20:20
lbtlcuk: ewww20:20
lbtarfoll: yes, that makes sense20:20
lbtand that depends on getting your surrounds libs (id3lib) into core20:20
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lbtwhich *does* make sense20:20
lbtarfoll: I do understand what you want to do.... really20:20
arfolllbt, ok i'll leave it in your good hands then and look forward to your blog post :-)20:21
lbthehe20:21
arfolli promise i wont shout about paperwork agai20:21
lbtnp... it gets on my nerves too20:21
lbtI feel like I'm blocking people20:21
lbtwhich is bad20:21
arfollSage, cheers and keep me updated on your xbmc hacking ;-)20:21
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Sagearfoll: will do :)20:22
arfolllbt, as far as i see you gave me access to OBS :-) big hugs20:22
lbt*g*20:23
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pupnikpizza with a height of a and a radius of z has a volume of pi*z*z*a20:34
thiago_homelol20:34
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aukeI can do that too for a box: it's volume is b*o*x (but, it doesn't taste as good)20:36
gabrbeddpupnik: Hahahaha!20:36
CosmoHillhey auke20:36
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aukemorningish20:37
Stskeepsmorn auke20:37
* auke is confused about time due to this forsaken land here not using the same DST dates as the rest of the world20:37
Stskeepsat least you're not driving on the wrong side of the road20:37
Stskeeps:P20:37
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ljpthe only wrong side of the road is if cars are headed towards you20:40
thiago_homeor you're driving in reverse20:41
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CosmoHillauke: do you know who worked on the Intel MPI Benchmark?21:38
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aukeCosmoHill: no idea21:43
lcukCosmoHill, to go with your wonky phone: wonky screenshot! http://liqbase.net/20110314_009.jpg21:43
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CosmoHillI love the idea that you dropped the phone and that happened to the text21:44
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lcukhah21:44
lcukCosmoHill, we went looking for a wristwatch form factor the other night21:45
lcuksent a mail to the guy who did the pong watch21:45
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timeless_xchatlcuk: where's wazd's dublin video?22:00
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timeless_xchatwazd: fwiw, about the only use for those videos is to improve your presentation style22:01
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timeless_xchatsince the cameras focused on the presenter instead of the slides22:01
timeless_xchat:(22:01
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timeless_xchathello mlfoster22:02
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timeless_xchathow's it going?22:02
vljhi22:02
vljvgrade: which ks file must I use ?22:03
lcuk<wazd_> http://conference2010.meego.com/session/application-design-survival-guide-programmers22:04
lcuk<wazd_> there it is22:04
lcuk<lcuk> cool22:04
lcuktimeless_xchat, ^22:04
lcuktimeless_xchat, presentation style - some groups try to guide presentors to not just read the slides22:05
lcukand to aim to give the same presentation to people listening only22:05
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* CosmoHill wonders if he should compare a mac pro to his cluster22:10
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vljvgrade: ping22:10
gabrbeddHey CosmoHill, what was the verdict on the win/lin HPC shootout on your cluster?22:12
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CosmoHillnot finished yet22:12
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gabrbeddOK, your logout message the other day made me think it was done22:13
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gabrbeddor at least, done with windows22:13
CosmoHillwhat was it?22:13
vljis there a ks file for gma 500 netbook ? (not joggler)22:13
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gabrbeddthe screen shot where you gave your reason for shutting down windows server22:14
CosmoHilloh that22:14
CosmoHillthat was me getting annoyed at a virtual machine22:14
CosmoHillI installed 2008 on my laptop so I can toy around with things outside of uni22:14
gabrbeddOh, ok.22:14
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CosmoHillgabrbedd: today I've been compiling my old assignments on windows so I can use them to compare22:18
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* npm finally gets http://openshot.org going on meego!22:22
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npmhad to resort to quite the hack: sudo zypper in http://mib.pianetalinux.org/MIB/2010.2/32/basic/python-mlt-0.5.10-69mib2010.1.i686.rpm http://mib.pianetalinux.org/MIB/2010.2/32/basic/libmlt-devel-0.5.10-69mib2010.1.i686.rpm  http://mib.pianetalinux.org/MIB/2010.2/32/basic/mlt-0.5.10-69mib2010.1.i686.rpm http://mib.pianetalinux.org/MIB/2010.2/32/basic/libmlt2-0.5.10-69mib2010.1.i686.rpm http://mib.pianetalinux.org/MIB/2010.2/32/basic/libmlt++3-0.22:24
npm5.10-69mib2010.1.i686.rpm22:24
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npmmandriva rpms on meego is a new low...22:24
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* thiago_home does that often22:27
thiago_homesince my main desktop is Mandriva, sometimes I get their RPMs in my MeeGo netbook22:27
thiago_homethat way, I can simply rsync my builds22:27
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npmi normally do that to fedora... but fedora's python stuff is on python 2.7 and i needed http://www.mltframework.org/twiki/bin/view/MLT/ up and running quickly22:28
npmagainst meego's python 2.622:28
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CosmoHillnpm: ooo, reminds me I need to get some rendering thing for my cluster22:29
Guest11749thiago_home: was your problems last week drive failure, btw?22:29
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thiago_homew00t_: no22:30
thiago_homew00t_: I don't remember what problems you're talking about, but since I have had no drive failure, it wasn't22:31
thiago_homeI did have a problem with the kernel deciding not to talk to the drive, though22:31
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w00t_thiago_home: I just vaguely remember you talking about system problems sometime then22:31
w00t_but good :-)22:31
thiago_homeI did22:31
w00t_drive failures are really inconvenient22:31
thiago_home2.6.36 has that problem22:31
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thiago_homeafter resuming from suspend, it would stop talking to the SATA disk22:32
thiago_homein 2.6.36.2, I hadn't had this problem until last week, when it did happen22:32
timeless_w7ipheh22:32
w00t_ouch22:32
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thiago_homethough I think it was my workstation, so no resume/suspend involved22:32
thiago_homeit simply stopped talking to the disk22:33
thiago_homeprocesses get stuck in D and hard reboot is the only option22:33
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w00t_I should try a hibernate on this kernel now (debian .37-1)22:33
w00t_anything pre-37 was known to not work22:33
thiago_home2.6.32 was the best kernel I've ever used22:34
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thiago_homeon this hardware, I mean22:34
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w00t_heh22:35
w00t_hardware support is a tricky thing, yes22:35
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thiago_homemy microphone hasn't worked ever since that version22:36
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npmhmmm... this looks intereting http://sourceforge.net/news/?group_id=96039&id=29677222:44
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lcukw00t_, w00t22:46
w00t_mm?22:46
lcuknomination22:46
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w00t_heh, I'm not sure what to do about that22:47
Stskeepsit's a trap!22:47
* w00t_ is very short on the time department, and as a result is very reluctant to accept nomination22:47
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Jaffaw00t_: Meh, you can't be worse than a third of the people I've served with22:50
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Jaffaw00t_: You can be the council member who doesn't do anything :-)22:50
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lcukJaffa, iSSH you say22:51
lcukhow comfy is that with vkb?22:51
RST38hHeya AStorm22:51
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Jaffalcuk: No idea (yet)23:00
lcukRST38h, you are normally good at this kind of stuff23:01
lcukany idea what the smallest x11 running linux device is?23:01
lcukdoes not need 3d, but wrist sized would be handy23:02
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bobnxsI was last here ~7 hours ago; it has taken me until this very moment to get irssi running under meego23:08
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* bobnxs had other sh*t going on, but still23:09
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thiago_home10 minutes to compile; 6 hours and 50 minutes sleeping? :-)23:09
bobnxsyou kidding? i had to fight dependencies every step of the way!23:09
thiago_hometo compile?23:09
bobnxs20 minutes to compile; 6:40 sleep23:09
bobnxsyeah23:10
bobnxsto config, namely23:10
thiago_homethat's not specific to meego23:10
bobnxsoh i know :)23:10
bobnxsnot complaining. i love the distro and i want it to take off. just telling a tale.23:10
bobnxsmaybe you can shed some light on something the config script was telling me tho?23:11
lbtbobnxs: is it on the OBS ?23:11
bobnxsyou're going to have to expand that abbrv for me23:11
lcukbobnxs, think of getting irssi working like tending to a bonsai tree :) you will get many hours of peace now the work is done.23:12
* timeless_w7ip ponders23:12
lbtwe have a community build system (and a core one) ... OBS23:12
bobnxshaha yes!23:12
timeless_w7ipis it possible my PVR gets DST wrong?23:12
bobnxsperfect analogy23:12
thiago_homeone still needs to figure out the dependences to put on the .spec file before uploading to the OBS23:12
bobnxstimeless: totally23:12
lbttimeless_w7ip: rofl23:12
* lcuk is fixing an n8x0 bug23:12
timeless_w7ipbrecause it thinks it's 10:12pm23:12
timeless_w7ips/br/b/23:12
infobottimeless_w7ip meant: because it thinks it's 10:12pm23:12
lbt*every* DST we check Myth ...23:12
lbt*every* time I 'fix' it...23:12
lbtbut it's a bitch to test23:13
* timeless_w7ip sighs23:13
timeless_w7iplbt: heh23:13
timeless_w7ipso, i missed half of bourne identity23:13
lbtthat's what TPB is for...23:13
* timeless_w7ip wonders how to fix the DVR23:13
bobnxsbigger hammer23:14
bobnxs;)23:14
timeless_w7ipthe stupid thing is that this is coming from a cable stream23:14
bobnxswhat kind?23:14
timeless_w7ipyou'd think the EPG would be correct23:14
bobnxscan you get a term?23:14
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vljlbt: is there an image for gma 500 netbook ?23:15
timeless_w7ipit's a handan cv5500 or something23:15
* timeless_w7ip shrugs23:15
vljthat works23:15
bobnxswtf... ok o__o23:15
timeless_w7iprebooting it (power cycle) fixes the clock23:15
lbtvlj: not something I'd know23:15
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bobnxsthen stop wondering! ;)23:15
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bobnxsanybody clue me in: installed glib 2.6.something and config kept reporting 2.24.223:16
bobnxsbuilt fine once i configged to disable that test23:16
lbtbobnxs: what OS do you normally run ?23:16
lbtand are you developing on a meego device?23:17
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lbtarfoll: ping23:18
bobnxswait srry, meatspace stuff23:20
lbtnp23:20
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* lbt is telling his wife to IM him ..... she's sitting behind me and now she's throwing things...23:21
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lcuklbt haha23:21
* timeless_w7ip warns lbt about the hazards of self references in the third person23:22
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thiago_hometoo many people make the mistake of talking about the IRC Narrator23:22
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* lbt feels humbled23:23
timeless_w7ipthiago: oh, so that's the correct parsing!, thanks, i always wondered23:24
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timeless_w7iplcuk: would it be wrong for me to reply "no, i'm not interested in playing hunt the wumpus" in bug 14224?23:28
_MeeeGoBot_Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14224 is not accessible23:28
timeless_w7ipoh brother23:28
* timeless_w7ip kicks something23:28
gabrbeddouch!23:29
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timeless_w7ipgabrbedd: no fair23:29
timeless_w7ipthere's actually a "someone" nick on some of the networks i use23:29
timeless_w7ipand there's also a "self" nick on some networks i use23:29
timeless_w7ipbut it should be safe for me to kick "something"23:29
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timeless_w7iplcuk, anyway, the comment is23:30
timeless_w7ip"Have you submitted this patch to the upstream project? "23:30
timeless_w7ipeep, i got mail fromm nagios23:31
lcuktimeless_w7ip, is this one of those upstream is meego?23:31
timeless_w7ipno, upstream is "i have no clue and don't want to go fish"23:32
lcuktimeless_w7ip, perhaps someone here will do some investigation for you23:32
lcukwhich project is it23:32
timeless_w7iplcuk: can i cc you to the bug(s)?23:33
timeless_w7ipoops23:33
timeless_w7ipmy web server ran out of disk space23:33
timeless_w7ipand nagios started paging me a day ago23:33
* timeless_w7ip kicks svn23:33
* timeless_w7ip tries to remember how to use svn switch23:35
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leinirgah! noone on the interwebs have any idea what the wetab extlinux password is :P23:41
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vljhi23:45
vljvgrade: ping23:45
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* timeless_w7ip pokes lcuk23:47
* lcuk emails sound recording of annoying beep back to timeless_w7ip 23:47
timeless_w7iplcuk: do you have a bugs.meego accout and would you mind if i cc'd you?23:48
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lcukon which bug, this one or just in general?23:49
valianholtwill be the MeeGo 1.2 fully usable on N900? :)23:49
* lcuk has to specify23:49
gabrbeddleinir: Did you ask wetab ?  And where does the password happen... at boot-up?23:49
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leinirgabrbedd: wetab, it seems, aren't too responsive... and German ;) but... yeah, it happens at bootup on the boot prompt (i'm doing the dual-boot thing and semi-hosed my extlinux.conf... which is where the trouble comes)23:50
lofty306i saw something for the default passwd somewhere23:51
arfolllbt, pong23:51
lbt-> msg23:51
gabrbeddleinir: Can you sudo?  Does `sudo grep -i pass /boot/extlinux/extlinux.conf` answer your question?23:53
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leinirgabrbedd: sorry, i wasn't clear enough - i can't get past the bootloader :P23:54
leinirwhat would do me well is to know how to use the syslinux boot prompt to list the available kernels or somesuch...23:55
lofty306could it be wetab ?23:56
lofty306and user rot23:56
lofty306root23:56
leinirlofty306: already tried the usual suspects... and it only asks for a password, not a user (this is the extlinux bootloader prompt, not gotten as far as loading the kernel yet)23:57
lofty306aahh23:57
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gabrbeddleinir: ...or you could boot with a Live USB image, mount the hard drive, and fix extlinux.conf to remove (or reset) the password.23:58
leinirgabrbedd: that is, if i could get it to boot from usb... but i can't get it to do that trick with the sensor key + power button...23:59
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