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| mikhas | pvanhoof, nice mail. But isn't it obvious that EDS only came in because of the decision to drop Buteo? Apparently, there's no interest in making SyncEvolution work with anything else but EDS. | 00:05 |
|---|---|---|
| mikhas | Again, another non-technical decision, I might say ;-) | 00:05 |
| pvanhoof | I'm not aware of what Buteo is. Is that something for synchronizing PIM data? | 00:05 |
| pvanhoof | ah yes, reading that part | 00:05 |
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| mikhas | yeah | 00:06 |
| mikhas | http://wiki.meego.com/Buteo | 00:06 |
| pvanhoof | The problem is that on harmattan quite a few of Nokia's softwares use Tracker and also hope for the PIM data to be there | 00:06 |
| mikhas | well, it's certainly good to demand concrete numbers, not just handwaving | 00:06 |
| pvanhoof | This is among the reasons why the E-mail team although having their own storage, also store into RDF (because some apps do queries for which they need to know about this, and they don't want to merge queries from different sources together themselves. plus they want to join on the metadata from different domains) | 00:07 |
| pvanhoof | Well yes, I do wonder about those scalability issues. The point of tracker is of course to scale pretty ok | 00:07 |
| pvanhoof | But it's optimized per use-case. It also has quite a few optimization possibilities. And focus on performance has historically been on the query side, not entry side. Data entry optimizations have only recently started | 00:08 |
| pvanhoof | So yes, some concrete numbers and how measurements where made would help a lot | 00:08 |
| * timeless_w7ip chuckles | 00:08 | |
| timeless_w7ip | data entry by the browser was shown to be abysmal ages ago | 00:09 |
| pvanhoof | Browsers don't need to insert thousands of things, so if the use-case is only bookmark management then I can imagine that the priority for that was low | 00:10 |
| timeless_w7ip | on harmattan, things use tracker because someone ordered things to use tracker | 00:10 |
| timeless_w7ip | well, users don't use bookmarks, they use history | 00:10 |
| pvanhoof | The reason is applications integrating with each other's metadata and context | 00:10 |
| mikhas | timeless_w7ip, right, and not perhaps because of a fully integrated search | 00:10 |
| timeless_w7ip | so you're talking about every page ever visited | 00:10 |
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| timeless_w7ip | mikhas: some hand waving | 00:10 |
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| pvanhoof | timeless_w7ip, that's still not a very frequent use-case. And I wonder what the query was, because that should be reasonably fast | 00:10 |
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| timeless_w7ip | pvanhoof: insertion, not query | 00:11 |
| timeless_w7ip | unless you consider INSERT to be a QUERY | 00:11 |
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| pvanhoof | Yes, sparql update is also a query form | 00:11 |
| timeless_w7ip | (SELECT?) | 00:11 |
| * timeless_w7ip shrugs | 00:11 | |
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| timeless_w7ip | i didn't do it, from memory the way it was done was stupid | 00:11 |
| pvanhoof | You insert-where, and the where part is a query like select | 00:11 |
| timeless_w7ip | but that's not my area of interest | 00:11 |
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| timeless_w7ip | it was awful | 00:11 |
| timeless_w7ip | and as for whether the browser was considered a priority use case | 00:12 |
| timeless_w7ip | *shrug* | 00:12 |
| timeless_w7ip | the whole design was absolutely insane | 00:12 |
| pvanhoof | To insert a history should be straightforward now that I look at the ontology for browser history .. | 00:12 |
| pvanhoof | Can you elaborate why? | 00:12 |
| timeless_w7ip | then there was the fun thing about how there were multiple URI fields floating around | 00:12 |
| timeless_w7ip | so when someone tried to dispatch a browser object, it failed | 00:12 |
| timeless_w7ip | because someone was expecting a different URI | 00:13 |
| timeless_w7ip | joy | 00:13 |
| timeless_w7ip | the wonderful thing about standards is that there are so many from which to choose | 00:13 |
| pvanhoof | What about multiple uri fields? | 00:13 |
| * pvanhoof doesn't understand this part :) | 00:13 | |
| pvanhoof | nie:url is the only URL field | 00:13 |
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| timeless_w7ip | there was a second one hidden somewhere else | 00:14 |
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| pvanhoof | Which one? | 00:14 |
| * timeless_w7ip shrugs | 00:14 | |
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| timeless_w7ip | we're talking about stupidity from last spring or summer | 00:14 |
| pvanhoof | Ok, and that stupidity is now fixed? | 00:14 |
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| timeless_w7ip | i think at the time someone added a hack | 00:14 |
| timeless_w7ip | since ontologies tend to last forever, i'd assume it wasn't fixed properly | 00:15 |
| timeless_w7ip | since in general that's impossible | 00:15 |
| timeless_w7ip | if you have access to the internal bug tracker, you could probably find the report | 00:15 |
| pvanhoof | ah, there's nfo:uri too, that sounds like should be nie:url, but anyway | 00:15 |
| timeless_w7ip | congrats, you found it! | 00:15 |
| timeless_w7ip | see. it doesn't take a browser engineer! | 00:15 |
| pvanhoof | But why was there no bug report about this? | 00:16 |
| timeless_w7ip | ""? | 00:16 |
| timeless_w7ip | there was | 00:16 |
| pvanhoof | bug#? | 00:16 |
| timeless_w7ip | *shrug* surely you can find it | 00:16 |
| timeless_w7ip | i'd like to pretend i don't have access to that bug traccker | 00:16 |
| timeless_w7ip | my account expired last year, and i only accidentally reenabled it | 00:16 |
| timeless_w7ip | i have better things to do | 00:16 |
| * pvanhoof searches. I wonder what the reason was | 00:16 | |
| pvanhoof | Anyway, it also doesn't make things more difficult to have that field, nor do you have to use it | 00:17 |
| * timeless_w7ip chuckles | 00:17 | |
| timeless_w7ip | my team's dead | 00:17 |
| pvanhoof | ah ok | 00:17 |
| timeless_w7ip | we don't have to do *anything* | 00:17 |
| timeless_w7ip | and no one in their right mind would touch this crap | 00:17 |
| timeless_w7ip | so yes, i don't have to use it | 00:17 |
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| timeless_w7ip | but please don't tell me you have the perfect product | 00:17 |
| timeless_w7ip | because i've waded through it, and i still remember the stench | 00:18 |
| timeless_w7ip | sorry, i'm not happy right now, someone played ping pong with me | 00:18 |
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| timeless_w7ip | and i bet you could find the bugs that talk about insertion performance if you tried ;-) | 00:19 |
| timeless_w7ip | note that i am not claiming the browser code to do the insertion was high quality | 00:19 |
| timeless_w7ip | i make no claims about high quality code | 00:19 |
| mikhas | all software is crap | 00:19 |
| mikhas | now that we agreed on that, can we move on? | 00:19 |
| pvanhoof | timeless_w7ip, No im not saying tracker is perfect | 00:20 |
| pvanhoof | I just have questions about EDS | 00:20 |
| timeless_w7ip | i seem to remember disliking eds :) | 00:20 |
| pvanhoof | Legitimate ones | 00:20 |
| * timeless_w7ip can't remember why | 00:20 | |
| pvanhoof | And tbh isn't Arjan's current reply eum ... community compatible :) | 00:20 |
| timeless_w7ip | ? | 00:20 |
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| pvanhoof | That's pretty much an "Meego is now an Intel-only shop" reply | 00:21 |
| timeless_w7ip | url? urn? uri? | 00:21 |
| pvanhoof | Ah, maybe I only received it yet | 00:21 |
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| timeless_w7ip | nie:url? nfo:uri? | 00:21 |
| pvanhoof | ah no, it's on the ML | 00:21 |
| timeless_w7ip | there are urls for that | 00:21 |
| pvanhoof | minute | 00:22 |
| pvanhoof | http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-dev/2011-March/481900.html | 00:22 |
| pvanhoof | Harmattan isn't Maemo | 00:22 |
| pvanhoof | It should have something to do with MeeGo. Reinventing the wheel yet again is eum a terrible idea | 00:22 |
| timeless_w7ip | it isn't frankenstein either | 00:22 |
| pvanhoof | So basically MeeGo is going to make the exact same mistake Nokia did when it went from Fremantle to Harmattan :) | 00:23 |
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| pvanhoof | Anyway | 00:24 |
| * pvanhoof goes back to coding :) | 00:24 | |
| ali1234 | meh... if harmetten is compliant, it's meego. if not, it isn't. up to whoever is developing it. i don't see why nokia should get a special pass on compliance. | 00:25 |
| pvanhoof | Maybe because Nokia steered development? | 00:25 |
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| pvanhoof | Might have something to do with it | 00:26 |
| ali1234 | i don't think that's a valid reason | 00:26 |
| ali1234 | especially if they steered it off a cliff | 00:26 |
| ali1234 | but hey | 00:26 |
| ali1234 | we will see | 00:26 |
| pvanhoof | Either way, still no reason for Intel to make the exact same mistakes | 00:27 |
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| pvanhoof | Nokia's developers didn't steer it off the cliff, upper management made a strange decision recently | 00:27 |
| ShadowJK | heh, wasn't it a year ago that tracker authors appeared on irc and ensured us it was "fixed"? | 00:27 |
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| pvanhoof | A year ago sparql and sparql update were introduced I think | 00:28 |
| pvanhoof | That's a bit more than a year ago I think | 00:28 |
| ali1234 | the mistake nokia made was never supporting the old thing after the new thing came out | 00:28 |
| pvanhoof | Right, sounds similar to what Intel is doing with MeeGo now isn't it? | 00:29 |
| ali1234 | they could rewrite the firmware every year and nobody would care if they made it work on the old hardware | 00:29 |
| ali1234 | since meego has no hardware yet, this isn't a problem | 00:29 |
| ShadowJK | and complaints about performance coming from @intel.con is damn frightening, they've got beefy hw to run it on :) | 00:29 |
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| timeless_w7ip | ali: supporting old things wasn't really the problem | 00:29 |
| ali1234 | it was from what i could see | 00:29 |
| timeless_w7ip | sure | 00:29 |
| pvanhoof | ShadowJK, Intel gave Tracker patches, the Tracker team at full priority reviewed and reworked the patch and that patch is now in. it's called the UpdateArray API | 00:30 |
| timeless_w7ip | ali: consider it this way | 00:30 |
| timeless_w7ip | if you don't rewrite things, but instead incrementally improve | 00:30 |
| pvanhoof | In fact has Intel contributed several patches and all of those pieces of work are integrated in tracker | 00:30 |
| timeless_w7ip | the likelihood of things still working on older hardware is much higher | 00:30 |
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| pvanhoof | So upstream tracker isn't reluctant to help intel improving things | 00:30 |
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| timeless_w7ip | but the real problem is that nokia's business model involves selling units | 00:31 |
| timeless_w7ip | and nokia is run by bean counters | 00:32 |
| pvanhoof | The team had to rework the patch because the way intel had it implemented was sending multiple insert queries as one transaction. This means that if one is wrong, all fail. That's not legitimate. If one is wrong, only one can error and the others might have to resume (if they don't depend on each other) | 00:32 |
| timeless_w7ip | if someone had a way to show that keeping users on old hardware gained money for nokia, then there'd be more reason to continue to support old hardware | 00:32 |
| pvanhoof | Development on tracker happens 100% upstream, not sure what Nokia's bean counters have to do with that | 00:32 |
| timeless_w7ip | pvanhoof: this is to ali1234 | 00:33 |
| pvanhoof | ah ok | 00:33 |
| ShadowJK | I'm not saying they're reluctant. I'm just amused that this daemon which has ranked high on list of user frustration is now after being "fixed" also on dev list of frustrations :) Good thing someone is taking notice and trying to come up with a solution though | 00:33 |
| timeless_w7ip | different conversation | 00:33 |
| pvanhoof | :) | 00:33 |
| pvanhoof | ShadowJK, what is the solution? | 00:33 |
| timeless_w7ip | ali: make sense? | 00:33 |
| ali1234 | yes, it makes sense. i still don't like it though | 00:33 |
| timeless_w7ip | ali: note that the other problem is unit volume | 00:34 |
| ShadowJK | Intel approach of one big query makes sense. A single one takes/took like 5-10 secs on maemo5 :) | 00:34 |
| pvanhoof | What do you mean one big query? | 00:34 |
| timeless_w7ip | if you make 10 units of device 1. 100 units of device 2. 1000 units of device 3. and plan to make 10,000 units of device 4 | 00:34 |
| lardman | ~curse FF on Ubuntu not working with opensource.samsung.com | 00:34 |
| infobot | May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, FF on Ubuntu not working with opensource.samsung.com ! | 00:34 |
| ShadowJK | multiple as one transaction | 00:35 |
| timeless_w7ip | the return on any effort for devices 1..3 is less than the sales for device 4 | 00:35 |
| pvanhoof | ShadowJK, And which query takes 5-10 s on maemo5? And what has Fremantle to do with this? | 00:35 |
| timeless_w7ip | which means if you allocate resources you take everything for device 4 | 00:35 |
| pvanhoof | ShadowJK, yes and that solution is in Harmattan's Tracker | 00:35 |
| timeless_w7ip | lardman: ff1.0.9? | 00:35 |
| lardman | 3.6.14 apparently | 00:36 |
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| timeless_w7ip | (actually, i don't think i've seen ff1.* in a while, but i'm pretty sure i saw a 2.0.0.8 or something not too long ago) | 00:36 |
| timeless_w7ip | lardman: please try ff4b12 | 00:36 |
| timeless_w7ip | (or if ff4rc1 is available...) | 00:36 |
| lardman | timeless_office: I'll see if it's in the Ubuntu repos | 00:36 |
| lardman | timeless_w7ip: see above ;) | 00:36 |
| timeless_w7ip | btw, you get points for having .14 instead of .13 | 00:36 |
| timeless_w7ip | iirc there's a ppa | 00:37 |
| timeless_w7ip | https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mozilla-daily/+archive/ppa | 00:37 |
| timeless_w7ip | the package is firefox-4.0 :o | 00:38 |
| timeless_w7ip | how nice of them, you can probably have both installed at the same time :o | 00:38 |
| * lardman needs an apt line | 00:38 | |
| timeless_w7ip | if you have js enabled there's a link you can click which gives you the apt lines | 00:39 |
| lardman | ah ok, will take a look see | 00:39 |
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| timeless_w7ip | oh, it's a select, not a link. whatever. | 00:39 |
| timeless_w7ip | oh, no, it's both, you have to click 'Technical details about this PPA ' first | 00:40 |
| timeless_w7ip | then you use the select | 00:40 |
| ali1234 | sudo add-apt-repository ppa:ubuntu-mozilla-daily | 00:42 |
| ali1234 | job done | 00:42 |
| timeless_w7ip | ali: bah, too simple | 00:42 |
| ShadowJK | pvanhoof, anything that triggers fsync or fdatasync on ext3 on flash and you can expect all other I/O to block for 2-10s :) | 00:42 |
| timeless_w7ip | we like complicated stuff | 00:42 |
| pvanhoof | ShadowJK, you do know that tracker's rdf store only does fsync on its journal, right? | 00:42 |
| pvanhoof | ShadowJK, tracker's rdf store's sqlite database uses synchronization=off | 00:43 |
| ali1234 | i think you need to put /ppa on the end so it's alittle more complicated | 00:43 |
| pvanhoof | ShadowJK, just saying, read the source my friend | 00:43 |
| ShadowJK | But presumably intel isn't running ext3 on flash, so I wonder what it's doing for them to make them sad | 00:43 |
| timeless_w7ip | http://mxr.meego.com/repo.meego.com/source/tracker/ or http://mxr.meego.com/meego.gitorious.org/source/tracker/ fwiw | 00:43 |
| pvanhoof | ShadowJK, Also note that tracker doesn't do an fsync automatically: | 00:43 |
| timeless_w7ip | and magically, you can switch from one to the other :o | 00:44 |
| pvanhoof | ShadowJK, i'll explain why: it's not expected that the device can be shutdown uncleanly. And fsync is only useful when you can shut down the FS uncleanly | 00:44 |
| * timeless_w7ip wonders why SPARQL is only a link on one of those | 00:44 | |
| pvanhoof | ShadowJK, there is a DBus call Resources.Sync() that does the fsync on the journal, though. If apps what to be sure | 00:44 |
| pvanhoof | But since that's easily readable in the source-code, no need to explain that | 00:44 |
| timeless_w7ip | answer: it's defined as an identifier in libqttracker which apparently hasn't been found by the meego.gitorious.org crawler | 00:45 |
| pvanhoof | timeless_w7ip, documentation is here: http://live.gnome.org/Tracker/ | 00:45 |
| timeless_w7ip | not interested :) | 00:45 |
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| timeless_w7ip | i'm not an app developer | 00:45 |
| timeless_w7ip | i own mxr.meego.com, so i'm advertising it :) | 00:46 |
| pvanhoof | Ah it was just a troll ? :) | 00:46 |
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| pvanhoof | ok ic :) | 00:46 |
| timeless_w7ip | legitimate on topic advertising! | 00:46 |
| timeless_w7ip | http://mxr.meego.com/repo.meego.com/ident?i=fsync&tree=repo.meego.com&filter=tracker | 00:47 |
| ali1234 | that's not a troll, this is a troll: "hey, isn't tracker that thing that made my ubuntu go really slow?" | 00:47 |
| * timeless_w7ip chuckles | 00:47 | |
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| pvanhoof | yes, those are the correct places for fsync use timeless_w7ip (that doesn't mean that these syscalls are called constantly, they are called when you do Resources.Sync() in DBus from an app) | 00:47 |
| pvanhoof | ali1234, which version of Tracker? 0.6.x isn't the same project anymore | 00:48 |
| ali1234 | i dunno, i was just trolling | 00:48 |
| lardman | aaargh, even ff 4.0 is beaten by the Samsung site | 00:48 |
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| * timeless_w7ip ponders | 00:48 | |
| lardman | works under Win7 64bit mind you with ff4.x | 00:48 |
| ShadowJK | On the other hand, EDS used to be the largest swapstorm trigger on my desktop computer until I figured out how to uninstall it (and then app developers started spawning mysqld instead, *sigh*) :) | 00:48 |
| timeless_w7ip | heh | 00:49 |
| pvanhoof | ShadowJK, right. Which is why I have questions about EDS on the ML | 00:49 |
| lardman | timeless_w7ip: just locks up trying to download some kernel source code | 00:49 |
| timeless_w7ip | i'm surprised you haven't complained about sqlite3 | 00:49 |
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| timeless_w7ip | pvanhoof: hey | 00:49 |
| timeless_w7ip | what's the opposite of g_open()? | 00:49 |
| pvanhoof | g_close? | 00:49 |
| ShadowJK | if eds uses some fsync happy sqlite3 we'd be back to fremantle or diablo level of pain :) | 00:50 |
| pvanhoof | Might be just close() | 00:50 |
| timeless_w7ip | oddly no. | 00:50 |
| timeless_w7ip | http://mxr.meego.com/repo.meego.com/source/glib2/glib/gstdio.h#64 | 00:50 |
| timeless_w7ip | (to g_close?) | 00:50 |
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| pvanhoof | ShadowJK, I know they are not using synchronous=off in sqlite, so yes they are causing that libsqlite3 does fsyncs | 00:51 |
| timeless_w7ip | boy that's logical | 00:51 |
| ali1234 | it has no opposite? | 00:51 |
| pvanhoof | And if they are using it, then they should have a journal themselves, and afaik they don't have that | 00:51 |
| timeless_w7ip | ali: right | 00:51 |
| timeless_w7ip | you just have to use close() | 00:51 |
| ali1234 | gah | 00:51 |
| timeless_w7ip | ali: see my last link | 00:51 |
| ShadowJK | oh joy, so that's 5s freeze for every little event that gets stuffed into eds then :D | 00:51 |
| ali1234 | yes, i did | 00:51 |
| ShadowJK | although btrfs would hide some of it | 00:52 |
| pvanhoof | timeless_w7ip, I think windows's open() isn't the same as posix or something and so the glib ppl wrapped it. Whereas close is the same everywhere, or something like that | 00:52 |
| timeless_w7ip | 55 #if defined(G_OS_UNIX) && !defined(G_STDIO_NO_WRAP_ON_UNIX) | 00:52 |
| pvanhoof | No idea, sometimes those wraps are for platform portability, sometimes I find them strange too | 00:52 |
| * lardman assumes this is a sign from God telling me to not look at kernel source this evening | 00:52 | |
| javispedro | timeless_w7ip: g_* <stdio> family of glib functions just wrap those that accept filenames in order to potentially do charset conversion | 00:53 |
| pvanhoof | ShadowJK, im not saying eds will cause that behaviour. It might be that eds will be used far less often for writing things to. Tracker on harmattan, however, is being written to constantly by applications (which is the applications doing that, not tracker, mind you) | 00:53 |
| pvanhoof | ShadowJK, so that meant that such fsync() hickups where not acceptable, and that's why it uses synchronous=off mode and does it have its own journal | 00:54 |
| timeless_w7ip | javispedro: clever | 00:54 |
| timeless_w7ip | oh right | 00:54 |
| pvanhoof | The journal is also used when making backups. Making a backup is just a copy of the journal to your destination. | 00:54 |
| pvanhoof | Restore is just placing your backup at the position of the journal, nuking meta.db, and replaying the journal | 00:54 |
| timeless_w7ip | because the _open() call is probably file system encoding whereas _wopen() is probably ucs32 or something | 00:54 |
| timeless_w7ip | err ucs2 | 00:55 |
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| ShadowJK | pvanhoof, this sounds very sensible :) | 00:55 |
| pvanhoof | ShadowJK, tracker developers are sensible. But they do receive a lot of hate unfortunately. Apparently because Fremantle's tracker was bad. But on harmattan it's a completely different project | 00:55 |
| javispedro | hey, I've been doing sqlite on n900 stuff recently too =) | 00:56 |
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| * javispedro also decided to do synchronous=0 but also journal=memory, otherwise it max at some tens of exclusive transactions per second... | 00:57 | |
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| ShadowJK | pvanhoof, seems it has been getting reinvented by different team for each release then? | 00:57 |
| pvanhoof | ShadowJK, in fremantle the current team had to deliver something in a very terse timeframe, meanwhile was a group of developers starting on a superior solution. then the team merged and worked only the new project only | 00:58 |
| pvanhoof | so, part of the current team had to deliver something in a very terse .. | 00:58 |
| timeless_w7ip | shadowjk: actually on this, i think they did a good job | 00:58 |
| pvanhoof | So ill fully accept that fremantle's tracker was piece of shit | 00:58 |
| timeless_w7ip | they managed to split and do best effort and close to ideal impl | 00:58 |
| timeless_w7ip | pvanhoof: it actually did work though, sadly i don't have the proof | 00:59 |
| pvanhoof | But I think that by now each and every line of tracker 0.6 has been replaced | 00:59 |
| timeless_w7ip | because the one good demo of it isn't available anymore | 00:59 |
| * timeless_w7ip has a terrible time remembering the nameof the useful search engine | 00:59 | |
| timeless_w7ip | veveo? | 00:59 |
| pvanhoof | that's closed | 00:59 |
| pvanhoof | and it's for text search only, not for relationships between resources | 01:00 |
| timeless_w7ip | yeah, but it was an excellent demo showing that the fremantle tracker actually worked | 01:00 |
| pvanhoof | I don't think that was on fremantle.. | 01:00 |
| pvanhoof | Maybe they made a demo of course | 01:00 |
| timeless_w7ip | relationships smationships | 01:00 |
| timeless_w7ip | pvanhoof: hypothetically it was available for use and perhaps even offered to he ovi store | 01:00 |
| pvanhoof | I know that a team at nokia opens meta.db manually and reads textual data and then makes it searchable on a quite good textsearch solution | 01:00 |
| timeless_w7ip | hypothetically i was happy for many months | 01:01 |
| pvanhoof | I think that might be veveo | 01:01 |
| timeless_w7ip | heh | 01:01 |
| pvanhoof | But it duplicates the data | 01:01 |
| * timeless_w7ip shrugs | 01:01 | |
| pvanhoof | Yeh not nice solution | 01:01 |
| timeless_w7ip | that happens anyway | 01:01 |
| pvanhoof | Tracker's own FTS is disabled on harmattan (for that reason) btw | 01:01 |
| timeless_w7ip | tracker is already a duplicate of data | 01:01 |
| pvanhoof | FTS in tracker is an index on the textual data btw | 01:02 |
| pvanhoof | So the textual data is in meta.db anyway, the FTS is an index on that | 01:02 |
| timeless_w7ip | what, so it doesn't clutter the other thing? | 01:02 |
| pvanhoof | But that FTS is ifdeffed out of harmattan's tracker | 01:02 |
| pvanhoof | Since it's not used, making the index is an unneeded performance impact | 01:02 |
| timeless_w7ip | actually, i think most of the problems w/ tracker on the n900 had to do w/ the crawlers | 01:03 |
| pvanhoof | But tbh I don't know how veveo works, and if I'd know I'd be NDAd | 01:03 |
| timeless_w7ip | which were not really tracker, and were just buggy and sloppy in their own right | 01:03 |
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| ShadowJK | Mostly users are angry at the indexers (of any software) doing one of 3 things: a) indexing. b) not indexing. c) triggering crashes in dsp code when indexing, requiring reboots to recover :) | 01:03 |
| pvanhoof | Yes but again, tracker on n900 is completely different than what I'm talking about here | 01:03 |
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| timeless_w7ip | all i know is that hypothetically there was this thing from veveo which made me happy on the n900 :) | 01:03 |
| pvanhoof | ShadowJK, yes, should all be fixed | 01:04 |
| timeless_w7ip | until i stopped being able to install it :( | 01:04 |
| pvanhoof | ShadowJK, there are some know problems about the thumbnailer on video thumbnails atm. Being solved | 01:04 |
| ali1234 | ShadowJK: you forgot 4) using 100% CPU to reindex every file on the device because i uploaded 1 new jpg | 01:04 |
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| ShadowJK | or on diablo it triggered device reboots because the crawler was so heavy watchdog thought device had hung :) | 01:04 |
| pvanhoof | ShadowJK, some formats sometimes cause DSP crashes. Actually the problem is almost always in gstreamer or some DSP code somewhere, not the thumbnailer itself | 01:04 |
| * timeless_w7ip sighs | 01:04 | |
| pvanhoof | You can trigger the same crash by just playing the movie | 01:04 |
| timeless_w7ip | dsp crashes = scary as hell | 01:04 |
| javispedro | users are angry at indexers period ;) | 01:05 |
| pvanhoof | yes well, if the requirement is: make thumbnails! | 01:05 |
| pvanhoof | You know :) | 01:05 |
| timeless_w7ip | "arbitrary code execution + full root exploit" | 01:05 |
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| pvanhoof | And the video crashes the dsp | 01:05 |
| pvanhoof | then you know, what will the first process be that crashes the dsp? | 01:05 |
| pvanhoof | So who gets the blame? | 01:05 |
| * timeless_w7ip chuckles | 01:05 | |
| timeless_w7ip | first to find | 01:05 |
| ShadowJK | :) | 01:05 |
| timeless_w7ip | so tracker :) | 01:05 |
| pvanhoof | Not really fair to blame the thumbnailer, right? It just happens to be the first :) | 01:05 |
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| timeless_w7ip | fair? who plays fair? | 01:06 |
| ShadowJK | need a good fuzzing :) | 01:06 |
| pvanhoof | Well tracker's metadata extraction doesn't use the dsp | 01:06 |
| pvanhoof | It's the thumbnailer | 01:06 |
| timeless_w7ip | pvanhoof: most people don't know the difference | 01:06 |
| timeless_w7ip | so they'll still blame tracker :) | 01:06 |
| pvanhoof | For us thumbnailer and tracker are seperate, for people reporting bugs they are the same :) | 01:06 |
| timeless_w7ip | tomato, potato, who cares? they're both fruit of the ground | 01:07 |
| * timeless_w7ip frowns | 01:07 | |
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| timeless_w7ip | probably the only person in this channel who could recognize that statement is sivang | 01:07 |
| timeless_w7ip | google + boreh if you want to understand the reference | 01:08 |
| pvanhoof | ShadowJK, so on the topic of indexing... | 01:09 |
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| pvanhoof | It was planned to ship the device with a preinstalled database, so no initial indexing would be needed. That support was planned to be made usable for distributions too | 01:10 |
| pvanhoof | Right now with the WP7 announcement I think it's fair to say that priorities have changed | 01:10 |
| timeless_w7ip | oddly, in theory priorities for harmattan haven't changed much | 01:11 |
| ShadowJK | You need a way to detect when the user is at least 30 seconds' distance away from device, and a way to undo memory related side-effects of crawling when user starts approaching device :) | 01:11 |
| timeless_w7ip | well, other than actually focusing *more* attn on harmattan | 01:11 |
| pvanhoof | As for indexing itself it should have been greatly improved. But there are still improvements possible. For example we have one request to make the signal that tells apps that a file's metadata is deleted happen faster on a unlink of a file | 01:11 |
| timeless_w7ip | shadowjk: well.... | 01:11 |
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| pvanhoof | Right now that's between 1 and 3s on the proto I think, and that's unacceptable idd | 01:11 |
| timeless_w7ip | you can detect motion and proximity | 01:12 |
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| timeless_w7ip | you can also detect cpu usage | 01:12 |
| pvanhoof | ShadowJK, well we had plans to integrate with the power management | 01:12 |
| timeless_w7ip | a device that's stationary but using a lot of cpu is playing a movie or recording a video | 01:12 |
| pvanhoof | For example, the most battery intensive task isn't indexing but thumbnailing | 01:12 |
| timeless_w7ip | = don't harm | 01:12 |
| ShadowJK | kill mass-storage mode to avoid sudden appearance of files :) | 01:12 |
| timeless_w7ip | a device that's stationary with the screen blanked is a good candidate for indexing | 01:12 |
| pvanhoof | Thumbnails can be requested on background priority. Right now that uses SCHED_IDLE, but we want to improve that so that it only gets started on wall-power, for example | 01:13 |
| pvanhoof | But again, priorities have shifted | 01:13 |
| pvanhoof | Else this would be implemented around this time | 01:13 |
| pvanhoof | SCHED_IDLE is pretty much what you propose btw | 01:13 |
| ali1234 | wall-power &! usb please | 01:13 |
| timeless_w7ip | ali: we know how m many amps we're getting | 01:14 |
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| pvanhoof | Do anything with the device, and the processes that you make do something are all higher prioritized than SCHED_IDLE | 01:14 |
| timeless_w7ip | if it's >0.5, then it's a wall | 01:14 |
| ali1234 | nothing worse than pluggin in usb to do something and then the phone starts going nuts and doing everything but what you want | 01:14 |
| pvanhoof | ali1234, that's why I said wall-power and not USB-power | 01:14 |
| pvanhoof | There are three levels of wattage I think, only the highest is wall-power | 01:14 |
| ali1234 | well, some phones have separate wall power and can't charge on usb... some *nokia* phones that is | 01:14 |
| SpeedEvil | wall power + no user | 01:14 |
| timeless_w7ip | sadly, i doubt the ui distinguishes between wall and pc | 01:14 |
| pvanhoof | Context-Framework can give you those details | 01:14 |
| ShadowJK | well, CPU was never much of an issue I think? I/O and memory starvation is the thing making UIs stutter :) | 01:14 |
| diego_ | Is it possible to run the QEMU emulator in a Windows 7 32-bit VM? I had tried using 64-bit version but it would keep crashing and it also crashes in my VM when I'm trying to use the Netbook Emulator. Any help? | 01:15 |
| ali1234 | therefore these are not mutually exclusive | 01:15 |
| timeless_w7ip | pvanhoof: actually, there's more | 01:15 |
| timeless_w7ip | 0.1 <...> 0.5, 1.0 .. 1.2 | 01:15 |
| timeless_w7ip | at least with the n900 those were all possible | 01:15 |
| pvanhoof | timeless_w7ip, yes possible. I didn't yet have to look into it because .. priorites | 01:15 |
| timeless_w7ip | you could probably end up w/ 1.1 too if you found the right wall | 01:15 |
| ShadowJK | N900 can distinguish 500mA USB from 500mA wallcharger too. | 01:15 |
| timeless_w7ip | shadowjk: does it visibly? | 01:16 |
| ShadowJK | no | 01:16 |
| pvanhoof | On fremantle was tracker also requesting thumbnails for all images that it saw, it doesn't do that on harmattan | 01:16 |
| ali1234 | well yeah... when you plug in on USB it says "what do you want to do?" | 01:16 |
| pvanhoof | apps must request thumbnails themselves, always | 01:16 |
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| pvanhoof | So that on fremantle was mind-boggling stupid | 01:16 |
| * timeless_w7ip nods | 01:16 | |
| ShadowJK | And dunno if bme exports it, but it is (or was) in /sys atleast | 01:17 |
| pvanhoof | That's something I think somebody should patch out of tracker 0.6 and overwrite on all n900s | 01:17 |
| SpeedEvil | ali1234: Only on USB host, not on charger. | 01:17 |
| timeless_w7ip | pvanhoof: can you talk to the cssu people about it? | 01:17 |
| ali1234 | SpeedEvil: exactly | 01:17 |
| pvanhoof | Some apps will not show thumbnails correctly, but those are wrong to be honest | 01:17 |
| SpeedEvil | Doing thumbnails in tracker is not stupid. | 01:17 |
| pvanhoof | That's the apps that don't use the thumbnail api, but expect thumbnails to be on the FS | 01:17 |
| SpeedEvil | But it should never, ever impact the user. | 01:17 |
| ali1234 | this is what i am saying: if usb storage, or pc suite, or the other one are active, don't index | 01:17 |
| pvanhoof | SpeedEvil, problem is that thumbnailing is very cpu and I/O intensive. So even if it doesn't impact the user, it still drains battery | 01:18 |
| timeless_w7ip | media-whatever | 01:18 |
| timeless_w7ip | actually, usb has perhaps a dozen thingies | 01:18 |
| pvanhoof | SpeedEvil, and apps want immediate responsiveness for thumbnails that aren't cached to appear, so they all use high priority. Tracker's request use SCHED_IDLE on fremantle too. But SCHED_IDLE doesn't cause less battery drain | 01:18 |
| timeless_w7ip | the n900 thankfully masks them as two categories | 01:18 |
| pvanhoof | And battery time is a bad selling point of the n900. Well, patch auto-thumbnailing out of tracker and it'll improve | 01:19 |
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| pvanhoof | One line patch | 01:20 |
| SpeedEvil | pvanhoof: I mean something like only thumbnail if on power, and only if the system is idle for >10s, and only if you can do it without causing memory or IO pressure in case something is needed 'now'. | 01:20 |
| SpeedEvil | pvanhoof: Unless app actually requests thumb. | 01:20 |
| pvanhoof | SpeedEvil, yes, sure, all that isn't implemented as such on the n900 | 01:20 |
| ali1234 | could be worse, i mean, gnome-thumbnailer regularly crashes my computer when it tries to thumbnail 1.8GB tiff files and other such nonsense | 01:20 |
| ShadowJK | My operator's packet data has been broken last few days. Battery life is measured in days now when radio isn't used :) | 01:20 |
| pvanhoof | And none of that is difficult. Just make the patches and propose. Im sure they'll accept the package | 01:20 |
| pvanhoof | ali1234, fremantle's thumbnailer, althuogh a piece of shit software, has a size limit | 01:21 |
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| pvanhoof | Harmattan's uses quillimagefilter, which should cope with large images | 01:21 |
| ali1234 | i'm sure the gnome one used to but obviously some nutcase with 32GB and 16 cores decided it wasn't needed | 01:21 |
| pvanhoof | I think quill uses tiling algorithms to make it work | 01:21 |
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| timeless_w7ip | ali: why do you have 1.8gb tiffs? | 01:22 |
| pvanhoof | And well, the reason why gnome's thumbnailers crash on this is gdbpixbuf which basically decompresses the 1.8gb tiff file to a RGB ram buffer | 01:22 |
| ShadowJK | jpeg can be partially decoded to get a fast low res image :) | 01:22 |
| pvanhoof | Which is a bad idea for 1.8Gb tiff files | 01:22 |
| ali1234 | timeless_w7ip: minecraft | 01:22 |
| diego_ | Hi, I wanted to know if it was possible to run the meego emulator for netbooks on a Windows 7 32-bit virtual machine. I just tried and it keeps hanging and crashing on me | 01:22 |
| timeless_w7ip | "what's that?" :) | 01:22 |
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| CosmoHill | cyas | 01:58 |
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| SeshuCL | Stskeeps are you there? | 02:31 |
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| javispedro | uh. | 02:33 |
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| javispedro | do we have someone to fill the void VDVsx left as organizer of GSOC? | 02:35 |
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| javispedro | s/organizer/administrator, ... | 02:35 |
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| * javispedro makes mental note to repeat question at at a better time. | 02:39 | |
| mikhas | javispedro, ask on the MeeGo ML? | 02:39 |
| javispedro | there has been a few questions by prospective students with no answer, so right now I fear the answer is "not". | 02:40 |
| javispedro | And while a wanted to be a mentor, I'm not sure I will be able to find time to fill in the paperwork required to be an admin... | 02:41 |
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| mikhas | ugh | 02:41 |
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| javispedro | ok, mail fired. please answer! =) | 02:58 |
| timeless_w7ip | anyone here familiar w/ spec files? | 02:58 |
| timeless_w7ip | javispedro? | 02:58 |
| * javispedro is a deb guy | 02:58 | |
| javispedro | if you're asking what the mail is about, see a few lines above. | 02:58 |
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| timeless_w7ip | how about the role of someone who speaks .spec? :) | 02:59 |
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| timeless_w7ip | ali1234? :) | 02:59 |
| michaelg|nok | a spec.ialist? | 02:59 |
| timeless_w7ip | michaelg|nok: can you help ? :) | 02:59 |
| timeless_w7ip | what does it mean for a spec file to have: | 03:00 |
| michaelg|nok | nooo it's been a long time since I've written them | 03:00 |
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| timeless_w7ip | Name: helloworld | 03:00 |
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| timeless_w7ip | Obsoletes: helloworld | 03:00 |
| michaelg|nok | umm. that seems a bit confused though | 03:00 |
| timeless_w7ip | really? | 03:00 |
| ngharo | name of package | 03:01 |
| ngharo | and list of packages it replaces | 03:01 |
| ngharo | ? | 03:01 |
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| timeless_w7ip | ngharo: see michaelg|nok's observation | 03:02 |
| michaelg|nok | also surely helloworld is baked into the platform these days... :) | 03:02 |
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| timeless_w7ip | in this case, both lines had meego-netbook-settings | 03:03 |
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| ngharo | oh, i see | 03:04 |
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| berndhs | perhaps its supposed to enforce only one of these to be present | 03:07 |
| timeless_w7ip | ? | 03:08 |
| ali1234 | the only reason i can think of to do that is because the package is obsolete and not replaced by anything else | 03:08 |
| berndhs | so that you can't have 2 versions of the package | 03:08 |
| timeless_w7ip | "don't install me?" | 03:08 |
| timeless_w7ip | "upgrade and remove me?" | 03:08 |
| ali1234 | more than that, also, "if i'm installed, uninstall me" | 03:08 |
| ali1234 | but it's just a theory | 03:09 |
| berndhs | upgrade-and-remove-old would make sense, a little, but its a guess | 03:09 |
| berndhs | or maybe its a bug | 03:10 |
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| timeless_w7ip | so, anyone have meego and want to find out? :) | 03:17 |
| ali1234 | which version? | 03:17 |
| timeless_w7ip | um | 03:17 |
| timeless_w7ip | 0.43-1.1 | 03:17 |
| timeless_w7ip | i think | 03:17 |
| timeless_w7ip | or the other way around | 03:17 |
| timeless_w7ip | nah, the way i wrote it | 03:18 |
| ali1234 | no, which version of meego? | 03:18 |
| timeless_w7ip | meego is versioned too? | 03:18 |
| * timeless_w7ip ponders | 03:18 | |
| ali1234 | um... yeah | 03:18 |
| timeless_w7ip | is there a package that'll tell me? :) | 03:18 |
| ali1234 | 1.1.0, 1.1.1, 1.1.80, 1.1.90... | 03:18 |
| ali1234 | basically, is this stable, or trunk? | 03:19 |
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| timeless_w7ip | no clue sadly | 03:19 |
| ali1234 | well, where did you get the rpm from? | 03:19 |
| timeless_w7ip | the code i have to crawl the repo is capable of crawling anything | 03:19 |
| timeless_w7ip | and since i haven't version controlled it, i can't easily tell which one it crawled | 03:20 |
| timeless_w7ip | so, is there a package that actually would tell you which repo it is? | 03:20 |
| berndhs | its in the directory structure | 03:20 |
| lcuk2 | javispedro, :) you joined twitter | 03:21 |
| lcuk2 | evening chaps \o | 03:21 |
| javispedro | lcuk2: yeap, learning it | 03:21 |
| timeless_w7ip | is there a file that provides lsb_ stuff which would indicate the release? | 03:21 |
| ali1234 | 'meego-netbook-settings' isn't a package in netbook 1.1 stable | 03:23 |
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| ali1234 | also, version is in /etc/meego-release | 03:24 |
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| timeless_w7ip | http://mxr.meego.com/repo.meego.com/source/libzypp/zypp/ZConfig.cc.meego-release is the only meego-release file | 03:25 |
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| ali1234 | meego-release-1.1-2.1.noarch provides it | 03:26 |
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| timeless_w7ip | 1.1.90-1.2 | 03:26 |
| ali1234 | that's presumably the source that generates it... | 03:27 |
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| ali1234 | ok so trunk then | 03:28 |
| ali1234 | which i don't currently have installed (nuked it for tablet demo) | 03:28 |
| timeless_w7ip | yeah | 03:28 |
| timeless_w7ip | well, you can grab the (s)rpm | 03:28 |
| * timeless_w7ip wonders why meego-release isn't in mxr | 03:29 | |
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| berndhs | whats the name of the src.rpm ? | 03:30 |
| ali1234 | won't mean much to me | 03:31 |
| timeless_w7ip | meego-netbook-settings-0.43-1.1.src.rpm | 03:31 |
| berndhs | i try to get it in a few mins | 03:31 |
| berndhs | connman hung up again | 03:31 |
| berndhs | or my wifi is more hosed than normal, that could be too | 03:33 |
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| lcuk2 | can I find out accurately within the OS what the image used is? | 03:39 |
| lcuk2 | ecause Settings/Product Version is wrong on MeeGo atm | 03:39 |
| ali1234 | how accurate? | 03:39 |
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| timeless_w7ip | hheh | 03:39 |
| lcuk2 | well more accurate than giving me a Maemo version number from last year would be good. | 03:39 |
| lcuk2 | https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14234 | 03:40 |
| ali1234 | meego-release | 03:40 |
| _MeeeGoBot_ | Bug 14234 nor, Undecided, ---, michael.leibowitz, NEW, About Product Dialogue shows rootfs (Maemo) product string | 03:40 |
| lcuk2 | timeless_w7ip, I was reminded by you digging that I needed to file that bug | 03:41 |
| lcuk2 | I noticed it over the weekend and giggled a bit | 03:42 |
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| lcuk2 | timeless_w7ip, in another thing you would find amusing | 03:42 |
| lcuk2 | "TODO: License text needed for meego.com" | 03:42 |
| lcuk2 | is on the same page | 03:42 |
| timeless_w7ip | heh | 03:42 |
| berndhs | timeless_w7ip: it builds it ok here, don't know what that means | 03:44 |
| timeless_w7ip | berndhs: is there a fille named README which doesn't look like a readme? | 03:45 |
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| berndhs | looks like instructions for something in the README | 03:45 |
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| timeless_w7ip | it feels like a strange README file | 03:45 |
| berndhs | it would probably execute as an sh script, but that's probably accidental | 03:46 |
| timeless_w7ip | so, i have a problem... | 03:47 |
| timeless_w7ip | some of the packages i'm dealing with are evil | 03:47 |
| timeless_w7ip | which means that i'm going to need to not use rpmbuild -bp | 03:47 |
| timeless_w7ip | i'd like to leave a file explaining what i've done | 03:47 |
| timeless_w7ip | i was vaguely considering using 'README' | 03:47 |
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| timeless_w7ip | but there are a couple of readme files in srpms | 03:47 |
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| ali1234 | i would put a huge banner on every html page of that package | 03:48 |
| timeless_w7ip | i'm considering: README, meta-data/, sources/ | 03:48 |
| timeless_w7ip | where the README is an explanation + rpmlint output | 03:48 |
| berndhs | how about README_why_I_put_it_here | 03:48 |
| timeless_w7ip | and meta-data/ is all the non tarball files from the srpm, with sources/ having all of the expanded tarballs | 03:49 |
| ali1234 | i'm afraid people won;t see that | 03:49 |
| timeless_w7ip | berndhs: the xref has magic handling for README | 03:49 |
| ali1234 | the way it will get used is people will link directly to file/line of code | 03:49 |
| berndhs | yes but README is a legitimate file for many purposes, so you probably can't assume that its yours | 03:50 |
| timeless_w7ip | http://mxr.meego.com/repo.meego.com/find?string=README | 03:50 |
| timeless_w7ip | is a set of readmes | 03:50 |
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| timeless_w7ip | what's important is how the directory list looks, e.g. | 03:50 |
| timeless_w7ip | http://mxr.meego.com/repo.meego.com/source/udisks-helper-extras/ | 03:50 |
| timeless_w7ip | note the text at the top above the list? | 03:51 |
| ali1234 | yeah, most of my website works like that | 03:51 |
| timeless_w7ip | ali: yeah, if people link directly, there's not much i can do | 03:51 |
| timeless_w7ip | that's ok | 03:52 |
| timeless_w7ip | i'm just hoping that anyone who browses into the directory would see it | 03:52 |
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| ali1234 | well, you can add more file types than README | 03:52 |
| ali1234 | to that mechanism | 03:52 |
| timeless_w7ip | it actually supports a bunch | 03:52 |
| timeless_w7ip | but if there's a README in some srpms, there's no guarantee whatever i pick won't be in it too | 03:53 |
| ali1234 | unless you pick README_WHY_THIS_PACKAGE_IS_BROKEN | 03:55 |
| timeless_w7ip | heh | 03:55 |
| ali1234 | i doubt you'll find that in any package | 03:55 |
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| berndhs | or README_FOR_XREF, something really specific | 03:58 |
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| * ali1234 reopens bug 5266 | 04:02 | |
| _MeeeGoBot_ | Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=5266 nor, Medium, ---, vivian.zhang, REOP, Changing the default OS in "boot loader operating systems" in anaconda installer has no effect | 04:02 |
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| gabrbedd | bug 1 | 04:08 |
| _MeeeGoBot_ | Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1 maj, Medium, ---, vivian.zhang, VERI FIXED, [Tracker] tracker-miner-fs should be auto-started after system boot | 04:08 |
| gabrbedd | I like ubuntu's #1 better. | 04:08 |
| ali1234 | i don't | 04:09 |
| ali1234 | it shows out of date thinking | 04:09 |
| ali1234 | desktop market share really shouldn't be a priority | 04:09 |
| ali1234 | and when you look at unity, it clearly isn't | 04:09 |
| gabrbedd | ok. | 04:13 |
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| gabrbedd | s/iOS/MeeGo/g | 04:13 |
| gabrbedd | erm... | 04:13 |
| gabrbedd | :-p | 04:14 |
| ali1234 | s/Windows/iOS/g? | 04:14 |
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| gabrbedd | yeah... but I totally spoiled it. | 04:14 |
| gabrbedd | I'll go stand in the cornere. | 04:14 |
| gabrbedd | corner. | 04:14 |
| gabrbedd | coroner. | 04:14 |
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| gabrbedd | did y'all come to a conclusion on the "Obsoletes: meego-netbook-settings" thing? | 04:15 |
| gabrbedd | Looks like a goof to me. | 04:15 |
| ali1234 | oh yeah, i forgot with testing the bootloader thing | 04:15 |
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| gabrbedd | ali1234: thanks for reopening that bug. I think I tried it over the week-end and got the same as you. | 04:16 |
| gabrbedd | I filed a couple other related bugs, though. | 04:17 |
| ali1234 | i filed a few for the bootloader already... | 04:17 |
| ali1234 | anything i should take a look at? | 04:17 |
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| berndhs | gabrbedd: perhaps some brave soul can file a big on the Obsoletes: self | 04:19 |
| berndhs | to find out | 04:19 |
| ali1234 | ok, i have meego-netbook-settings installed, zypper doesn't want to remove it or anything... so i have to agree it looks like a mistake | 04:19 |
| gabrbedd | Sure. Bug 14190 and... | 04:20 |
| _MeeeGoBot_ | Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14190 nor, Low, ---, neo.fang, NEW, Partition editor in installer gets confused if primary partition at end of drive | 04:20 |
| ali1234 | ooh, that is a strange one :) | 04:20 |
| ali1234 | recovery partitions are pretty common... | 04:21 |
| gabrbedd | Oh yeah, I didn't file one about not touching the MBR... since I don't really care if they fix that one. :-) | 04:21 |
| gabrbedd | or "fix" that one. | 04:21 |
| ali1234 | but microsoft has a new trick: win7 uses two primary partitions, then you have two recovery partitions. so you can't repartition without breaking your windows 7 install somehow | 04:21 |
| gabrbedd | berndhs: eh, why not? | 04:21 |
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| ali1234 | "not touching the mbr" is already filed :) | 04:22 |
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| gabrbedd | ali1234: ok. | 04:22 |
| ali1234 | bug 12816 | 04:22 |
| _MeeeGoBot_ | Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=12816 enh, Undecided, ---, gavin.hindman, NEW, [FEA] No option to install without bootloader step | 04:22 |
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| ali1234 | it used to be an option but it got removed somehow | 04:22 |
| gabrbedd | ali1234: Ok, I'm on the CC list, now. | 04:23 |
| ali1234 | i think it is important for testers to not be annoyed when installing images to test stuff :) | 04:23 |
| berndhs | upgrade install would be nice too, so I dont have to rebuild everything | 04:24 |
| gabrbedd | chainloading /to/ an extlinux install from the Win7 bootloader was... wierd to set up. | 04:24 |
| ali1234 | there is also bug 12815 and bug 12813 related to install/bootloader stuff | 04:24 |
| _MeeeGoBot_ | Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=12815 enh, Low, ---, vivian.zhang, ASSI, Installer does not detect existing Linux installations | 04:24 |
| _MeeeGoBot_ | Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=12813 enh, Low, ---, vivian.zhang, ASSI, Bootloader menu is too difficult to access | 04:24 |
| gabrbedd | But I actually got the bastard to work. | 04:24 |
| gabrbedd | Anybody loaded chain-loaded extlinux from grub? | 04:25 |
| * gabrbedd can't form decent sentances tonight... | 04:26 | |
| * gabrbedd can't spell, either. | 04:26 | |
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| berndhs | i usually upgrade fedora after i install meego, to get the fedora grub back | 04:27 |
| berndhs | there is a shorter way of doing it, run grub directly, but i'm too lazy to figure out how to do that right | 04:28 |
| berndhs | or its grub-install --recheck or something | 04:28 |
| gabrbedd | Here's how I had to do it with win7: http://wiki.meego.com/Using_MeeGo_with_the_Windows_7_Boot_Loader | 04:29 |
| gabrbedd | extlinux is looking for the partition that's marked bootable... | 04:29 |
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| gabrbedd | so I bet something similar is required with grub. | 04:29 |
| berndhs | yes its analogous, you first trash your MBR and then re-make it | 04:30 |
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| * gabrbedd files bug 14236 | 04:32 | |
| _MeeeGoBot_ | Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14236 tri, Undecided, ---, priya.vijayan, NEW, Package meego-netbook-settings declares "Obsoletes: meego-netbook-settings" | 04:32 |
| gabrbedd | berndhs: Naw... the trick was that I /needed/ extlinux to write to the MBR. | 04:33 |
| gabrbedd | I then saved that MBR... | 04:34 |
| gabrbedd | Restored the win7 MBR... | 04:34 |
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| gabrbedd | And fed the extlinux MBR to the the win7 boot loader. | 04:34 |
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| ali1234 | sorry, got disconnected | 04:37 |
| ali1234 | gabrbedd: i don't chainload extlinux, but ubuntu's grub can boot meego with no problems (not tested with btrfs) | 04:38 |
| * javispedro uses grub to boot the meego kernel.. | 04:38 | |
| javispedro | yeah, I had to put the kernel on a separate partition | 04:38 |
| javispedro | (where grub itself already resided) | 04:38 |
| ali1234 | all it takes is a "sudo update-grub" | 04:39 |
| javispedro | but that's about it. | 04:39 |
| gabrbedd | well, not even MeeGo can boot to btrfs. :-) | 04:39 |
| ali1234 | yeah | 04:39 |
| ali1234 | that's why i use ext3 | 04:39 |
| ali1234 | i already have 8 partitions, don't need another one for /boot | 04:40 |
| gabrbedd | I personally get tired of having several os's share the same /boot. | 04:40 |
| gabrbedd | So, I've started chainloading where possible. | 04:40 |
| ali1234 | they never cooperate :( | 04:40 |
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| javispedro | I usually just manage the grub partition by myself... most OSes try to kill it in every day funnier ways | 04:42 |
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| javispedro | Meego netbook being an obvious example... | 04:42 |
| michaelg|nok | if they'd picked a nicer name like butterfly, perhaps | 04:42 |
| ali1234 | um... how do i subscript to bugs without commenting on them? | 04:42 |
| javispedro | I guess the extlinux choice comes from some seamless bootsplash or the like? | 04:43 |
| gabrbedd | ali1234: usually the "add me to CC list" is checked by default. | 04:44 |
| gabrbedd | ali1234: So hit "Update" | 04:44 |
| ali1234 | commit? | 04:44 |
| gabrbedd | ali1234: It'll send an update to 1 or 2 people, but not the whole list. | 04:44 |
| gabrbedd | yeah, commit. | 04:45 |
| ali1234 | heh, it only emailed you :) | 04:45 |
| gabrbedd | ha! | 04:46 |
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| berndhs | maybe i'm starting to get the hang of this QML stuff | 04:54 |
| berndhs | kinda sad actually if thats true | 04:54 |
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| gabrbedd | berndhs: sad? | 04:56 |
| berndhs | yeah feels like going back to teh days of open subrouting calls :) | 04:57 |
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| berndhs | s/outing/outine/ | 04:57 |
| infobot | berndhs meant: yeah feels like going back to teh days of open subroutine calls :) | 04:58 |
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| gabrbedd | A little... but for UI stuff I kind of like it. | 05:00 |
| gabrbedd | Kind of a balance between editing CSS files and actual code. | 05:00 |
| berndhs | yes | 05:00 |
| berndhs | but in a way its scarier, you will end up poking into the qml from c++ a lot | 05:01 |
| gabrbedd | Yep. | 05:01 |
| berndhs | so reading any portion of the code, whether c++ or javascript or css, you can't tell what it does | 05:02 |
| ali1234 | i managed to get Qt/3D working with bullet: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euSxmVhiG60 | 05:03 |
| ali1234 | i'm not sure how QML would apply to something like this | 05:03 |
| berndhs | people are going to do that in javascript and then complain about short battery life | 05:04 |
| gabrbedd | ali1234: Cool! | 05:04 |
| ali1234 | i was going to redo this for meego: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CcfG5uxSOw | 05:05 |
| ali1234 | (that is done all in horrible EGL calls) | 05:05 |
| gabrbedd | I started a QML project... but switched to QGraphicsScene to get better control of TouchEvents. | 05:05 |
| ali1234 | also, lol at youtube comments | 05:06 |
| ali1234 | sometimes i like to vote up the people who say "fake" just to mess with people | 05:06 |
| gabrbedd | ali1234: Nice job with the dice. | 05:07 |
| gabrbedd | My mom had something like a Samsung Mythic... and there was a virtual dice app that couldn't run without periodic hitches. | 05:07 |
| ali1234 | neither can mine :/ | 05:07 |
| ali1234 | i think PR1.2 broke it | 05:07 |
| gabrbedd | Oh, really. Hard to tell from the youtube. | 05:08 |
| ali1234 | it's ooooold | 05:08 |
| gabrbedd | Looked smooth. | 05:08 |
| ali1234 | it was smooth when i wrote it, but not any more | 05:08 |
| gabrbedd | oh | 05:08 |
| ali1234 | also youtube has that effect too | 05:08 |
| ali1234 | also it's the most basic of basic graphics possible, just cubes with the most simple shader ever and tiny textures | 05:09 |
| ali1234 | this one has really nice graphics (iphone) : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugoq8M2XxVE | 05:10 |
| ali1234 | i think he is cheating on accelerometer too | 05:11 |
| gabrbedd | probably... but it looks nice. | 05:12 |
| ali1234 | yeah | 05:13 |
| ali1234 | basically 2 things stopped me from finishing that app for maemo: | 05:13 |
| ali1234 | difficulty of using raw EGL shaders (i only know fixed function GL) | 05:13 |
| ali1234 | and difficulty of packaging the physics lib (old version used ODE) | 05:14 |
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| ali1234 | Qt/3D fixed 1, and bullet fixes 2 (since i can static link it) | 05:15 |
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| timoph | this (and the conversation following it) troubles me -> http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-dev/2011-March/481890.html | 07:43 |
| gabrbedd | timoph: I can empathize... | 07:45 |
| gabrbedd | but I was pretty encouraged by it. | 07:45 |
| gabrbedd | timoph: What in particular troubles you? | 07:45 |
| timoph | to me it seems like we now have a one man architecture board with personal grudge agains nokia | 07:46 |
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| gabrbedd | Well, Arjan has never been known for his bedside manner... | 07:47 |
| timoph | :) | 07:47 |
| iekku | morning | 07:47 |
| gabrbedd | iekku: howdy! | 07:48 |
| gabrbedd | timoph: But it's not just him making the calls. One e-mail spells out the team. | 07:48 |
| timoph | oh. I missed that | 07:49 |
| timoph | good that you pointed that out since I was just about to reply to the thread (and make an ass out of myself) | 07:49 |
| gabrbedd | ah... I see... Carston asked for an update on who the team is -- and that wasn't replied to. | 07:50 |
| gabrbedd | But Carston also listed out who he knew the team to be last fall. | 07:50 |
| gabrbedd | Meanwhile, there have been a bunch of aMeeGo's (including Nokia folks) in Portland over the past 2 weeks. | 07:51 |
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| timoph | yep. that's the question I want to get answered | 07:51 |
| gabrbedd | NishanthMenon: Go to bed!! | 07:51 |
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| gabrbedd | timoph: http://wiki.meego.com/Architecture | 07:52 |
| gabrbedd | Arjan is the "chief" -- so he gets to look like the bad guy. | 07:52 |
| timoph | :) | 07:53 |
| timoph | He's good at it | 07:53 |
| gabrbedd | But, IMHO... with the official release scheduled 4 weeks away... | 07:53 |
| gabrbedd | we need a bad guy. :-) | 07:53 |
| gabrbedd | Or... is it 6 weeks. | 07:53 |
| gabrbedd | or 8. | 07:53 |
| timoph | yep. The release is going be missing a lot of things that it was supporsed have | 07:53 |
| gabrbedd | Whatever... it's pretty close. | 07:53 |
| gabrbedd | Yes. | 07:54 |
| gabrbedd | In fact, I was worried about that /before/ the Nokia decision. | 07:54 |
| timoph | yep. me too | 07:54 |
| jonwil | me, I just hope the lawyers get through all the red tape and allow all the stuff for the N900 (like GPS) to be made available | 07:54 |
| timoph | for me the n900 is just a small piece of the puzzle. A nice to have thing for sure but not the main thing | 07:55 |
| gabrbedd | timoph: +1 | 07:55 |
| jonwil | well I care as a N900 owner | 07:56 |
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| * timoph has 2 n900s :) | 07:56 | |
| gabrbedd | Yes, but the N900 isn't going to bring $$ into the MeeGo project. | 07:56 |
| timoph | could be. I also really want see the DE for it to succeed | 07:57 |
| gabrbedd | Yes, I agree. | 07:58 |
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| timoph | this was the thing that got me really worried about the 1.2 release -> http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-qa/2011-February/001051.html | 07:59 |
| jonwil | The N900 is currently the only cellphone target for MeeGo | 08:00 |
| jonwil | aside from whatever Nokia has in its labs | 08:00 |
| timoph | you can run it on nexus1, aava, etc. too | 08:00 |
| timoph | but the n900 is the current arm reference device | 08:01 |
| jonwil | hence why bringing it closer to feature-parity with Fremantle is of value | 08:01 |
| timoph | actually I'm not sure if aava is a reference device anymore | 08:02 |
| timoph | since there haven't been builds for it for some time | 08:02 |
| gabrbedd | timoph: Actually, I was worried over xmas when I saw all the iPad commercials and realized, "Wow. MeeGo is really, really late to this race." | 08:02 |
| timoph | :) | 08:03 |
| timoph | might be late but I still think it has a very real chance of succeeding | 08:04 |
| jonwil | I am hoping MeeGo makes a success in the cellphone market moreso than tablets | 08:04 |
| gabrbedd | IMHO, a strong app store is a pretty big part of what makes mobile devices (especially phones) popular. | 08:05 |
| timoph | and of cource everyone has a different definition for "success" | 08:05 |
| gabrbedd | (At least, in today's market) | 08:05 |
| timoph | yep | 08:05 |
| gabrbedd | Before 2/11... that was a real possibility for MeeGo. | 08:05 |
| timoph | I think that's why we're seeing Intel pushing appUpp | 08:05 |
| gabrbedd | After 2/11 -- I'm not sure it can happen. Though it's clear Intel is going to make a run for it. | 08:06 |
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| timoph | If they release some nice hw with MeeGo. I'm pretty sure I'll buy it. I'm already doing apps for it | 08:06 |
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| gabrbedd | Yep. Me, too. | 08:07 |
| timoph | we started a game project with a couple of guys from QA tools | 08:08 |
| jonwil | MeeGo tablet or netbook has no interest for me | 08:08 |
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| jonwil | only a cellphone would be something I care about | 08:08 |
| raster | well you'd better hope other cellphone makers sjump onto meego | 08:08 |
| Stskeeps | morn | 08:08 |
| timoph | :) | 08:08 |
| gabrbedd | Hi Stskeeps! | 08:08 |
| timoph | morn Stskeeps | 08:08 |
| raster | as nokia isn't going to be the one focusing on it :) | 08:08 |
| gabrbedd | Did Arjan ever answer your question about the Arch. team? | 08:09 |
| raster | no idea who else is/will use/ship meego on a phone | 08:09 |
| gabrbedd | Stskeeps: ^^^ | 08:09 |
| Stskeeps | gabrbedd: let's focus on the technical stuff for now or we'll miss target of release, actual project structures are figured out past the elopcalypse when nokia knows what they are doing :P | 08:11 |
| thiago_home | nokia knows what it wants to do, the problem is that the information is not getting to the devs | 08:12 |
| Stskeeps | it might even turn out for the better now | 08:12 |
| thiago_home | hopefully they'll get more info today | 08:12 |
| gabrbedd | Stskeeps: I fully agree. But if there was an answer, I was curious to know it. :-) | 08:13 |
| timoph | me too | 08:14 |
| Stskeeps | i personally hope we'll move to an architectual model were it's less about affiliation and more about skill and capability. | 08:14 |
| timoph | +1 | 08:15 |
| gabrbedd | Well, good morning guys. I'm going to bed now. :-) | 08:16 |
| Stskeeps | but that thread is going to be interesting to watch | 08:17 |
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| timoph | yep. | 08:17 |
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| Stskeeps | which makes me think of a presentation title for the conference | 08:20 |
| Stskeeps | "Post-elopcalypse effects within the MeeGo project" ;) | 08:20 |
| iekku | :D | 08:21 |
| thiago_home | lol | 08:21 |
| thiago_home | "post-elopocalyptic" | 08:21 |
| Ronksu | I'm sure that would be a hit :) | 08:22 |
| timoph | :D | 08:22 |
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| thiago_home | Stskeeps: so submit something alrady | 08:29 |
| thiago_home | I've already done one | 08:30 |
| wassupnari | Stskeeps : morning! | 08:31 |
| Stskeeps | thiago_home: yeah, i saw - good proposal | 08:31 |
| Stskeeps | wassupnari: good morning | 08:31 |
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| wassupnari | Stskeeps : we've tested the library, but.. still don't work. :( | 08:32 |
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| Stskeeps | wassupnari: did you get 3d demos up and running? | 08:32 |
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| wassupnari | Stskeeps: hang on | 08:33 |
| Myrtti | hahahaha "No sessions have been accepted yet. Session submissions are due by March 18, 2011. We expect to have a large subset of the presentations approved and scheduled by April 4th and are planning to have the final program ready before April 15th." | 08:34 |
| Myrtti | finally that page is fixed | 08:34 |
| Myrtti | I had a laugh at it over the weekend | 08:34 |
| thiago_home | Myrtti: why? | 08:34 |
| Myrtti | because I've submitted a talk too and it did appear on the accepted sessions page, just like yours did | 08:35 |
| * Stskeeps looks | 08:35 | |
| thiago_home | oh, I hadn't noticed | 08:35 |
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| Myrtti | in fact, all of the ones that were/are on proposed were shown on the accepted page too | 08:35 |
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| Myrtti | I knew it wasn't real but I had fun anyway | 08:35 |
| Stskeeps | Myrtti: http://sf2011.meego.com/program/sessions , white marks current page | 08:35 |
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| Myrtti | Stskeeps: no kidding! | 08:36 |
| Myrtti | yes, I know | 08:36 |
| wassupnari | Stskeeps: do you know "yb"? he is one of my co-worker, he tested that library and he said he didn't use 3d demos. | 08:36 |
| Stskeeps | wassupnari: no sorry, but he should get the 3d demos from the 3d library working first, then it's easier to get rest working :) | 08:37 |
| wassupnari | hm.. okay | 08:37 |
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| Stskeeps | usualy there's some good demos to test everything works, or just check egl status or something | 08:37 |
| thiago_home | glxgears | 08:39 |
| Stskeeps | thiago_home: GLES? ;) | 08:39 |
| thiago_home | no eglgears? | 08:39 |
| thiago_home | :-) | 08:39 |
| RST38h | Moo, ladies and gentlemen | 08:40 |
| thiago_home | moo, RST38h | 08:41 |
| Stskeeps | thiago_home: i've yet to see one | 08:41 |
| wassupnari | Stskeeps: i cannot find 3d demos, where can i get that? :) | 08:43 |
| Stskeeps | wassupnari: hmm, i would think they would be in the package for the SGX stuff | 08:43 |
| Stskeeps | graphics driver people are usually proud to give along demos ;) | 08:43 |
| wassupnari | Stskeeps: hehe, okay | 08:44 |
| Stskeeps | wassupnari: because when the default demos work, it's easy to hook up rest of meego usually | 08:46 |
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| Myrtti | hm | 09:02 |
| Tm_T | K'morning | 09:04 |
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| timeless_xchat | lbt: ping | 09:29 |
| timeless_xchat | anyone here have any pending flights in the next couple of weeks? | 09:30 |
| Stskeeps | what, volcano started? | 09:31 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 09:31 |
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| timeless_xchat | i want to test a tool that deals in amadeus references | 09:31 |
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| lbt | timeless_xchat: pong | 10:13 |
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| timeless_xchat | lbt: got any flights pending? i want to try checking amadeus references | 10:31 |
| lbt | tomorrow | 10:31 |
| Stskeeps | timeless_xchat: it's a bit problematic to ask about amadeus references since those + name allow people to check in | 10:31 |
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| Stskeeps | and this could be abused | 10:31 |
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| timeless_xchat | stskeeps: yeah, in this case, lbt can watch me use it | 10:32 |
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| pexi_ | http://www.engadget.com/2011/03/08/lenovo-thinkpad-x220-and-x220-convertible-tablet-official-24-ho/ | 10:47 |
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| javispedro | so, are my fears true? noone's doing GSoC paperwork? | 16:26 |
| Stskeeps | maybe, but you might have asked at the worst time possible :) | 16:28 |
| javispedro | yes, at two/three days from the deadline =) | 16:29 |
| Debolaz | Sounds like the plot of the best horror movie ever. | 16:29 |
| Stskeeps | javispedro: also, does MeeGo qualify? | 16:29 |
| javispedro | still, considering that even TI promised free hw for a future Meego GSOC participation... a pity if it were not to happen. | 16:29 |
| Stskeeps | i mean, maemo.org used to but "maemo" didn't | 16:30 |
| javispedro | I know -- one hopes Meego is open enough :D | 16:31 |
| javispedro | last year there was a half proposal from a Intel employee, even. | 16:31 |
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| Stskeeps | send a mail to DawnFoster, cc quim and ask if it's OK if you drive it? | 16:33 |
| Stskeeps | to make it happen | 16:33 |
| Stskeeps | i think gsoc probably just drowned in this whole mess and having it would be a win-win situation for the project | 16:35 |
| * gabrbedd munches popcorn and watches the flame-war on meego-dev | 16:35 | |
| javispedro | (tbh I myself I'm still worried about whether to push to register maemo.org or not, as the SSU could surely get some students bumps ;) ) | 16:35 |
| javispedro | Stskeeps: yes, quite agreed. | 16:36 |
| Stskeeps | gabrbedd: i applaud it for the fact we're actually discussing architecture in the open | 16:36 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 16:36 |
| javispedro | more like you're flaming past architecture decisions in the open ;) | 16:36 |
| Stskeeps | meh, what's the difference.. | 16:37 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 16:37 |
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| gabrbedd | Stskeeps: agreed, but I think it's a dead horse. | 16:39 |
| gabrbedd | I can't imagine them changing their minds... no matter what the tech. | 16:39 |
| Stskeeps | for 1.2 the choices really had to be made now, so yeah | 16:40 |
| gabrbedd | +1 | 16:40 |
| Stskeeps | the important thing is that we get 1.2 out the door | 16:40 |
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| sivaN900 | hi all | 17:06 |
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| sivaN900 | what happening ? :-) | 17:08 |
| Stskeeps | not much | 17:08 |
| berndhs | good fight in the mailing list | 17:08 |
| sivaN900 | berndhs: bout ? | 17:09 |
| sivaN900 | berndhs: i fail to find and signal in meego mls lately | 17:09 |
| sivaN900 | berndhs: as if the project got abandomned which feels sad. | 17:10 |
| berndhs | was about decision to pick a sync method for contacts | 17:10 |
| lcuk | sivaN900, completely the opposite :) | 17:10 |
| lcuk | if anything the announcement has been a kick in the arse and from what I see pretty much all teams across the board are motoring along and getting further with things | 17:11 |
| gabrbedd | sivaN900: meego-dev ML | 17:11 |
| sivaN900 | lcuk: nice to know. i am limited to following mls mostly these days ans things seem quite low | 17:12 |
| sivaN900 | gbraad: let me recheck | 17:12 |
| gabrbedd | And yes, the dev-focused ML's have been pretty quiet since 1/1/11. | 17:12 |
| lcuk | sivaN900, well ML ebb and flow just as life | 17:12 |
| sivaN900 | gbraad: right. so i am not crazy :-) | 17:12 |
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| sivaN900 | lcuk: where have been progress made ? | 17:13 |
| lcuk | sivaN900, I believe Venemo keeps asking for you btw | 17:13 |
| sivaN900 | lcuk: i know i am taking long breaks due to some personal issues moving and other administrativa | 17:13 |
| lcuk | sivaN900, well this is one really good focal point: http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/DeveloperEdition | 17:14 |
| sivaN900 | lcuk: ineed - but asince then mostly ailence on mls | 17:14 |
| lcuk | sivaN900, of course, nobody expected you around 24/7! just letting you know he was wanting to chat with you | 17:14 |
| lcuk | sivaN900, because everyone has been busy on their n900s | 17:14 |
| sivaN900 | lcuk: is ear piec audio working ? | 17:14 |
| lcuk | actually getting in there and doing stuff on them | 17:14 |
| lcuk | I am not sure whether the mail client is quite working yet ;) | 17:15 |
| sivaN900 | very good then :) | 17:15 |
| sivaN900 | lcuk: mail is fine in MicroB | 17:15 |
| lcuk | sivaN900, same as everyone, if there is a piece of functionality that matters to you, find a bug for it, or file it | 17:15 |
| lcuk | and chase it up | 17:15 |
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| sivaN900 | lcuk: i cant chase it known nothing about kernel hacking | 17:16 |
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| lcuk | sivaN900, without a bug number a developer cannot track it though | 17:16 |
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| sivaN900 | lcuk: bug is filed - is earpiece calls working ? | 17:16 |
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| lcuk | and to follow something you care about, you only need to be interested and discuss and try to followup | 17:16 |
| lcuk | sivaN900, what is the number?! | 17:17 |
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| sivaN900 | lcuk: let me try and not cry when i try to work bugs.meego.com through microb | 17:19 |
| sivaN900 | bugzi is fault here. microb is the best mobile browser ever | 17:19 |
| sivaN900 | my 3g is being throttled again | 17:20 |
| lcuk | ok sivaN900 - I see no bug relating to "earpiece" or "ear piece" - perhaps it is my bugzilla foo, or it is just requested here | 17:20 |
| sivaN900 | oh god | 17:20 |
| Stskeeps | its fixed, i think | 17:20 |
| sivaN900 | Stskeeps: it is ? | 17:20 |
| lcuk | that is positive | 17:21 |
| sivaN900 | indeed. | 17:21 |
| Stskeeps | yes, but may only be in :testing atm | 17:21 |
| sivaN900 | ok. and battery drain and toasting ? i recall this was a tricky bit with kernel forward porting. | 17:22 |
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| sivaN900 | that's great! | 17:22 |
| Stskeeps | sivaN900: people working on it | 17:22 |
| sivaN900 | Stskeeps: ok when i have wall internet again i will try to test. what about touch driver issue ? | 17:23 |
| Venemo | hey sivaN900 | 17:23 |
| Stskeeps | sivaN900: fixed | 17:24 |
| Venemo | sivaN900, how're you? :) | 17:24 |
| sivaN900 | hey Venemo | 17:24 |
| sivaN900 | Venemo: hanging :) your video was amazing | 17:24 |
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| sivaN900 | Venemo: i am not sure how to apply it though. | 17:24 |
| sivaN900 | Venemo: but this is better for private :) | 17:26 |
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| Venemo | sivaN900: :) | 17:33 |
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| lcuk | hmmm Bug 14234 Filed in Handset/Settings has been sent to nobody@meego.com even though component and area the bug filed in is correct as far as I know! how odd | 18:14 |
| _MeeeGoBot_ | Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14234 nor, Medium, ---, nobody, NEW, About Product Dialogue shows rootfs (Maemo) product string | 18:14 |
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| qgil_ | Stskeeps any ideas for the right host of a mailing list to coordinate the MeeGo port for the N900 work? Should we try meego.com or...? | 18:14 |
| qgil_ | lcuk: odd indeed | 18:15 |
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| DawnFoster | qgil_: it would be similar to this one: http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-adaptation-intel-automotive | 18:15 |
| DawnFoster | where is the n900 stuff coordinated now? | 18:15 |
| qgil_ | hi DawnFoster that would work perfectly | 18:16 |
| DawnFoster | Stskeeps: you know what to do to make the request, I assume? | 18:16 |
| DawnFoster | BTW, meego-events meeting in #meego-meeting in 45 minutes: http://wiki.meego.com/Events/Meetings | 18:17 |
| sivaN900 | changing list servers ? | 18:17 |
| qgil_ | DawnFoster: one question about the name of the list still "intel automotive" refers to architecture-category, should we call this one simply N900 or follow the same schema | 18:17 |
| sivaN900 | qgil_: new ml for DE ? | 18:18 |
| qgil_ | sivaN900: yes | 18:18 |
| DawnFoster | qgil_: yeah, that's a good question - depends on the scope of the work. | 18:18 |
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| sivaN900 | didn't we have meego-arm ? | 18:18 |
| DawnFoster | qgil_: I'd prefer not to name it after a specific hardware | 18:18 |
| DawnFoster | and we should include adaptation in there somewhere to be consistent. | 18:19 |
| sivaN900 | qgil_: meego-arm | 18:19 |
| DawnFoster | there is no meego-arm mailing list | 18:19 |
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| qgil_ | DawnFoster: agreed - this needs a little more discussion then. Good points | 18:19 |
| sivaN900 | after all this is for OMAP arm stuff | 18:19 |
| DawnFoster | might make sense to lump arm handsets into one adaptation list? | 18:19 |
| DawnFoster | but part of the request process is to kick off a discussion on a mailing list | 18:20 |
| DawnFoster | so we can sort some of it out there | 18:20 |
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| sivaN900 | Stskeeps: / | 18:20 |
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| qgil_ | DawnFoster: sounds sensible, at least is consistent with the precedent of intel-automotive (which I like) | 18:21 |
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| qgil_ | another option is to just keep using meego-arm until there is a need to split, as sivaN900 proposes | 18:21 |
| qgil_ | DawnFoster: I'll go ask at meego-arm | 18:21 |
| DawnFoster | where is the meego-arm mailing list (not on meego servers) | 18:22 |
| qgil_ | DawnFoster: right... he might be referring to #meego-arm | 18:22 |
| DawnFoster | ah, that would make sense - I know about that one | 18:23 |
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| qgil_ | but we need a mailing list - meego-adaptation-arm-handset would be an option | 18:23 |
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| qgil_ | sivaN900: were you talking about #meego-arm IRC or a amiling list? | 18:24 |
| sivaN900 | qgil_: maling list | 18:24 |
| qgil_ | sivaN900: where is that? | 18:24 |
| sivaN900 | qgil_: if we dont have one we need to create one | 18:24 |
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| qgil_ | sivaN900: ok :) | 18:25 |
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| qgil_ | Then meego-adaptation-arm-handset looks like the consistent option | 18:25 |
| sivaN900 | qgil_: yes but do we need to adaptation there ? | 18:25 |
| sivaN900 | qgil_: eg the word | 18:25 |
| lcuk | won't that be a bit odd when running handset builds on pinetrail etc? | 18:26 |
| sivaN900 | qgil_: devloper edition would be more accurate no ? | 18:26 |
| DawnFoster | and here's the request process (just a reminder): http://wiki.meego.com/Mailing_list_guidelines#Requesting_a_New_Mailing_List | 18:26 |
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| * CosmoHill just compiled Intel MPI Benchmark on VS2010 using MS-MPI :) | 18:26 | |
| sivaN900 | CosmoHill: nice | 18:27 |
| CosmoHill | you add the MS-MPI directories, remove Intel MPI from requirements and done | 18:27 |
| qgil_ | sivaN900: the "developer edition" is a project that combines adaptation + UX tasks in order to come up with a usable MeeG image for the N900 | 18:27 |
| CosmoHill | first you have to import Intel's VS2008 to VS2010 | 18:28 |
| DawnFoster | this policy drives adaptation (it has a specific meaning here): http://wiki.meego.com/Core_OS_Program/Kernel_policy | 18:28 |
| DawnFoster | and shouldn't be changed to another word | 18:28 |
| sivaN900 | qgil_: the ux tasks are minute though. | 18:28 |
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| sivaN900 | qgil_: so ux tasks coordinated on meego-handset if we have it as an ml ? | 18:29 |
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| sivaN900 | eg a vertical | 18:29 |
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| qgil_ | sivaN900: DawnFoster has been pushing an organic growth for mailing lists and I agree this is the right approach | 18:29 |
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| sivaN900 | qgil_: cool - where would be to natural pl€e for n900 meego de ux discussions ? | 18:30 |
| qgil_ | sivaN900: I'd rather start with a arm-handset mailing list and go for more only if needed | 18:30 |
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| DawnFoster | sivaN900: we do have a meego-handset wg, which is where the ux discussions should be | 18:30 |
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| DawnFoster | oops wg / mailing list | 18:31 |
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| sivaN900 | qgil_: makes more sense to me :) | 18:31 |
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| qgil_ | alright, then an option is to start in meego-handset and open arm-handset when needed - another option is to start with the two lists for ux/adaptation since the beginning | 18:33 |
| qgil_ | DawnFoster: any preference? | 18:33 |
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| DawnFoster | I'd be fine with this starting in meego-handset | 18:34 |
| andre__ | lcuk, see https://bugs.meego.com/show_activity.cgi?id=14234 | 18:34 |
| DawnFoster | unless Stskeeps needs to keep it separate for some reason. | 18:34 |
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| DawnFoster | I need Stskeeps to chime in with what he needs | 18:34 |
| sivaN900 | so meego-hanset for both low level platform stuff and ux for n900 ? | 18:35 |
| qgil_ | DawnFoster: ok, so we will start in meego-handset (it exists already, underutilized atm) and then Stskeeps sivaN900 or anybody else can propose improvements based on the real usage we are doing | 18:35 |
| lcuk | andre__, thanks - that does not help though, I should check if the MeeGo Handset on Intel still shows up with Windows :P | 18:35 |
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| andre__ | haha | 18:35 |
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| sivaN900 | saidinesh5: hey ! | 18:46 |
| sivaN900 | saidinesh5: great news for syncevolution fans :-) read on mls | 18:46 |
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| DawnFoster | meego events meeting starting in #meego-meeting in 2 minutes. Agenda here: http://wiki.meego.com/Events/Meetings | 18:58 |
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| Jaffa | DawnFoster: Thanks for the headsup | 19:00 |
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| sivaN900 | what a thread | 19:00 |
| sivaN900 | -architecture. | 19:00 |
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| Texrat | hey timoph | 19:05 |
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| timoph | Texrat: o/ | 19:07 |
| timoph | Texrat: thanks for the nomination. I'm thinking about it | 19:07 |
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| Texrat | just accept timoph :P | 19:08 |
| timoph | :) | 19:08 |
| Texrat | guy like you is needed now timoph | 19:08 |
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| CosmoHill | what are you guys on about? | 19:09 |
| Texrat | cosmohill you man timoph and I? | 19:09 |
| CosmoHill | yes | 19:09 |
| Texrat | Maemo council | 19:09 |
| Texrat | I nominated timoph | 19:09 |
| timoph | dunno yet. I'm interested in it a bit but haven't really done too much maemo.org stuff recently | 19:09 |
| Texrat | and he's better accept | 19:10 |
| Texrat | he'd* | 19:10 |
| timoph | :) | 19:10 |
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| CosmoHill | nominated him for what? | 19:10 |
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| Texrat | I just said: Maemo council | 19:11 |
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| Texrat | election time again | 19:12 |
| SpeedEvil | It is? | 19:12 |
| * SpeedEvil looks down. | 19:12 | |
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| Texrat | hey jayabharath! | 19:13 |
| Texrat | thanks again for help with community device program wiki | 19:13 |
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| Texrat | jayabharath did you see emails about automating the process? | 19:14 |
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| Stskeeps | qgil_, DawnFoster: i'm not heading the Developer edition work, but one thing i was wary about was that while DE is an effort that effectively contributes back to meego, we maintain own releases on top of meego.. if such a effort belongs within meego, then i would propose meego-handset for the work | 19:28 |
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| qgil_ | Stskeeps: in meego-meeting now, let¡'s chat after that | 19:29 |
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| Stskeeps | qgil_: yep, am at break in polish classes - will be back in an hour or so | 19:29 |
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| qgil_ | Stskeeps: ok, ping back when you are polished :) | 19:31 |
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| sivaN900 | lol | 19:31 |
| lcuk | haha | 19:32 |
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| Texrat | I thought Stskeeps was shiny enough already | 19:33 |
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| leinir | Shiny as in Firefly? ;) | 19:34 |
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| Texrat | shiny as in "Man that Stskeeps is so awesome he shines!" | 19:35 |
| leinir | *giggles* :) | 19:35 |
| Texrat | no polish required | 19:35 |
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| timoph | DawnFoster: I forgot to ask during the topic that does sponsored travel cover attendance to the warm-up too? | 19:36 |
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| DawnFoster | timoph: we'll do it for a specified number of days based on budgets and let you pick the days you want to attend | 19:36 |
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| DawnFoster | we should chat with bdub_ about this later | 19:37 |
| timoph | ack | 19:37 |
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| lcuk | DawnFoster, can people choose to stay the days only and commute? | 19:37 |
| DawnFoster | I'd like to make sure we give people enough days to attend at least some warm up | 19:37 |
| DawnFoster | (can't talk about this now & run other meeting) :) | 19:37 |
| bdub_ | DawnFoster, timoph: Noted. | 19:37 |
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| * timoph needs to finish his session proposal | 19:38 | |
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| mikhas | did the MeeGo admin return from his vacation BTW? | 19:42 |
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| lcuk | mikhas, who is the meego admin? | 19:42 |
| timoph | "MeeGo admin"? | 19:42 |
| mikhas | I dont know | 19:42 |
| X-Fade | That would be a nice job ;) | 19:43 |
| lcuk | X-Fade, so would MeeGo bacon taster | 19:43 |
| mikhas | well, sys admin then | 19:43 |
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| timoph | mikhas: could you tell us what you're after. we might be able to help you | 19:44 |
| mikhas | https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13696#c7 | 19:44 |
| X-Fade | mikhas: There is an IT team, but you need to be more specific:) | 19:44 |
| _MeeeGoBot_ | Bug 13696 nor, Undecided, ---, dawn.m.foster, NEW, Request for dedicated meego-inputmethods ML | 19:44 |
| bdub_ | lcuk: mmmmm. | 19:44 |
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| DawnFoster | Adam Gretzinger is the meego sys admin, and yes he is back | 19:44 |
| mikhas | cool | 19:44 |
| DawnFoster | the mailing list request is in his queue :) | 19:44 |
| X-Fade | bdub_: bacon doughnut :) | 19:44 |
| lcuk | mikhas, http://wiki.meego.com/Mailing_list_guidelines#Requesting_a_New_Mailing_List | 19:45 |
| DawnFoster | I'll follow up today if I don't see anything from him | 19:45 |
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| bdub_ | X-Fade I was already thinking of it | 19:45 |
| lcuk | as DawnFoster helpfully pointed out for unrelated topic a bit ago | 19:45 |
| lcuk | mmmm X-Fade | 19:45 |
| X-Fade | bdub_: An experience to never forget :) | 19:45 |
| bdub_ | You know, down here in texas we deep fry bacon. Just saying. | 19:45 |
| mikhas | lcuk, huh? | 19:45 |
| mikhas | I think I covered all bases now | 19:45 |
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| lcuk | bdub_, right now, I have the rest of an 18person pork roast | 19:46 |
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| lcuk | which as tracy said, feeds 3+me | 19:46 |
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| lcuk | bdub_, tho deep fried bacon sounds intruiging | 19:46 |
| * lcuk tries it | 19:46 | |
| bdub_ | It does. Take fat, wrap it in fat, and then cook it in fat. | 19:47 |
| lcuk | intruiging. | 19:47 |
| bdub_ | lcuk, here's the place: http://theeatenpath.com/2009/03/23/chicken-fried-bacon-sodolaks-country-inn-snook-tx/ | 19:47 |
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| Texrat | lol bdub_ | 19:49 |
| CosmoHill | bdub_: are you the guy from LFS? | 19:49 |
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| Texrat | ah, Texas cooking... | 19:50 |
| lcuk | Texrat, can you confirm this | 19:50 |
| bdub_ | CosmoHill, can you expand the acronym and I'll tell you? :-) | 19:50 |
| CosmoHill | I'll take that as a no since if you were you'd be one of the lead developers | 19:51 |
| Texrat | I can confirm tat grease is the main ingredient in Texas food | 19:51 |
| CosmoHill | it's Linux From Scratch | 19:51 |
| bdub_ | eeee no then! | 19:51 |
| bdub_ | oh - I had a number of others floating around | 19:51 |
| Texrat | bdub_ told me he's been bored, so by all means load him up :D | 19:52 |
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| bdub_ | You're never bored when you have bacon. | 19:52 |
| Texrat | lol | 19:52 |
| Texrat | I'm gwetting too old to eat it... unles my arteries get roto-rootered | 19:53 |
| Texrat | getting* | 19:53 |
| lcuk | the bacon grease helps the blood slide along the veins. | 19:53 |
| bdub_ | Agreed. I'm a well-oiled machine. | 19:53 |
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| Texrat | man lcuk I wish that were true! | 19:55 |
| DawnFoster | I'm going to be in Texas later this week (Austin) - One word: guacamole! | 19:55 |
| Texrat | but I think you mean FISH oil | 19:55 |
| Texrat | :P | 19:55 |
| DawnFoster | well, that and Mexican Martinis :) | 19:55 |
| lcuk | DawnFoster, with bacon? | 19:55 |
| Texrat | DawnFoster I mkake the best guacamole :D | 19:55 |
| Texrat | make* | 19:55 |
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| Texrat | sure wish I was going to Austin :( | 19:55 |
| DawnFoster | Texrat: how close are you to Austin? | 19:55 |
| Texrat | 3 hours | 19:56 |
| DawnFoster | ah, a long way to drive for a meego breakfast on Saturday :) | 19:56 |
| Texrat | entered a Nokia contest for sxsw package-- didn't win :( | 19:56 |
| Texrat | well, niot really | 19:56 |
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| Texrat | we used to drive to Austin for weekend getaways a lot | 19:56 |
| Texrat | we would just come in Friday afternoon | 19:56 |
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| Texrat | but, with my wife losing her job, I can't afford a hotel | 19:57 |
| Texrat | so may not make it down to Texas Linux Fest either (and I'm supposed to present) :/ | 19:57 |
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| slaine | DawnFoster: are you going to Mexico or Texas | 20:01 |
| DawnFoster | Texas :) | 20:01 |
| dneary | Texrat, So - how is the hardware program going? | 20:01 |
| Texrat | DawnFoster make sure to catch the bat flight at the bridge over Town Lake | 20:01 |
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| Texrat | just at sunset | 20:02 |
| dneary | Texrat, Who is my best chance for getting ~30 complete developer kits for May right now? PandaBoard? | 20:02 |
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| * slaine wonders why he bothers coming to work early at all. Still here and feel like I've nothing done | 20:02 | |
| DawnFoster | I've been to Austin for the past 4 years, and never made it out to see the bats | 20:02 |
| Texrat | take an umbrella for the guano :D | 20:02 |
| DawnFoster | ewwww | 20:02 |
| Texrat | not really a problem... or hasn't been for me | 20:02 |
| Texrat | ;) | 20:02 |
| dm8tbr | dneary: talk to orbarron about panda | 20:02 |
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| Texrat | yes dneary, orbarron or jayabharath | 20:03 |
| Texrat | although that's a high number... not sure if they have that many offhand | 20:03 |
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| Texrat | I'll be glad to help you on that | 20:04 |
| dm8tbr | their backlog at digikey is just 740 or so :) | 20:04 |
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| dm8tbr | connection reset by beer... | 20:04 |
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| * jayabharath looks | 20:05 | |
| * Texrat hopes... | 20:07 | |
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| jayabharath | Texrat: dneary left the room... getting 30 kits will be close to impossible... may want to check with beagleboard.. as they have better supply atm | 20:07 |
| dm8tbr | jayabharath: dave's connection just dropped, but he's looking for panda's for something meego related? | 20:07 |
| dm8tbr | ah, there he is | 20:07 |
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| Texrat | jayabharath I had a feekign that was the case. | 20:08 |
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| Texrat | feeling* | 20:08 |
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| Texrat | dneary, have you seen the updated device program page yet? | 20:08 |
| jayabharath | dneary: getting 30 kits will be close to impossible ... we are working through a huge backlog of orders atm.... you may want to ping jkridner on #beagleboard and see if they can look into beagleboards... | 20:09 |
| Texrat | dneary, jayabharath confirmed my suspicon abotu Pandaboard availability... may have to go with Beagleboard | 20:09 |
| jayabharath | I expect we will have solved most of our backlog order in the next 5 weeks | 20:09 |
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| dneary | DawnFoster: Try to find a bar-tender who'll agree to make you a Flaming Dr. Peppers | 20:10 |
| Texrat | and yes, I got the notion jkridner had plenty of Beagleboards | 20:10 |
| dneary | jayabharath, Just back | 20:10 |
| dneary | I didn't leave, was dropped | 20:10 |
| dneary | :( | 20:10 |
| Texrat | one probability, dneary, is that people will ahve to buddy up | 20:10 |
| dm8tbr | jayabharath: dneary mentioned May as a target though | 20:10 |
| Texrat | 2 per davice say | 20:10 |
| dneary | Texrat, No, haven't seen the updated page yet | 20:10 |
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| * jayabharath struggling with vanished mouse cursor... will reboot and log back in a bit | 20:11 | |
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| dneary | jayabharath, There are all sorts of possibilities - we can make it a smaller session, we can share one kit between 2 people, so 10 kits = 20 attendees, there are options | 20:11 |
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| Texrat | dneary updated page makes it easier to find contacts and champions: http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Office/Community_device_program | 20:11 |
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| dneary | Texrat, Looks like the odds of getting Snowballs for the device program is slim to none right now. | 20:12 |
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| dneary | pohly, Hey there! | 20:12 |
| Texrat | hey pohly | 20:13 |
| Texrat | thanks for accepting LinkedIn req ;) | 20:13 |
| Texrat | dneary I will continue to expand device list, but getting champions helps | 20:13 |
| Texrat | need one for Intel and one for Nokia | 20:14 |
| dneary | "expand device list" in what direction? | 20:14 |
| Texrat | and more as we go | 20:14 |
| Texrat | ANY viable direction | 20:14 |
| dneary | Have you been talking to QuIC | 20:14 |
| Texrat | not yet | 20:14 |
| dneary | They might be interested. Do you know Mark Charlebois? | 20:14 |
| Texrat | tryign not to spread myself too thing | 20:14 |
| Texrat | no, I don't | 20:14 |
| Texrat | I just aproached AAVA though, waiting on response | 20:14 |
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| dneary | So - in summary, the best opportunity right now is TI & the BeagleBoard | 20:15 |
| Texrat | and will tackle one potential provider at a time | 20:15 |
| Texrat | yes | 20:15 |
| Texrat | mostly Beagleboard | 20:15 |
| dneary | Or we get people working on their own laptops | 20:15 |
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| Texrat | agreed | 20:15 |
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| dneary | Or we ask them to bring their Lenovos along | 20:15 |
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| Texrat | or ExoPCs ;) | 20:15 |
| Texrat | crap I'm making the typos today... | 20:16 |
| Texrat | so dneary what do you know about Snowball availability? that was on my list | 20:16 |
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| dneary | Texrat, I can put you in touch with someone in ST Ericsson, but he said that they were not looking to do anything officially with MeeGo right now | 20:18 |
| dneary | Linaro is still their focus | 20:18 |
| Texrat | ah | 20:18 |
| Texrat | need to work on MeeGo-Linaro synergies maybe ;) | 20:18 |
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| Texrat | merge them into one project and call it MeLargo :D | 20:19 |
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| lcuk | Texrat, not sure how it would help, but perhaps see who or what http://twitter.com/AlbanRampon might know who could help | 20:20 |
| Texrat | ty lcuk | 20:20 |
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| Texrat | no reason to take Snowball off the list entirely... may just need to lobby real hard. Heck surely ST Ericsson can turn loose of ONE for MeeGo... | 20:21 |
| lcuk | he in on the dedicated #ARM side and obviously will know people from the different communities so might know who to poke for beagle/panda | 20:21 |
| Texrat | oh we have beagle/panda covered lcuk | 20:22 |
| jayabharath | dneary: I'm back.. my ubuntu machine mouse cursor vanishes without heads up ;) | 20:22 |
| jayabharath | dneary: was this for some hands on session you are planning? (could not find much detail in the logs) ... please share more info | 20:23 |
| dneary | jayabharath, Yes | 20:23 |
| dneary | jayabharath, Let me find a pointer... | 20:23 |
| jayabharath | dneary: thx | 20:24 |
| dneary | http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_Conference_Spring_2011#MeeGo_Conference_Warm-Up | 20:24 |
| jayabharath | I am presuming for Meego Conf in may | 20:24 |
| * jayabharath looks | 20:24 | |
| Texrat | yes jayabharath | 20:24 |
| dneary | jayabharath, My idea was to have a full day session where people would get set up with meego on a board + some kit, and write, test & deploy their first application from the SDK to target hardware | 20:25 |
| jayabharath | Got cha | 20:25 |
| Texrat | and boards of course aren't the only issue, dneary, since they will require monitors, input devices,... | 20:25 |
| Texrat | or maybe just touchscreens | 20:26 |
| dneary | Last year we tried to get a bunch of people using the ARM SDK but it was a bit farcicle with a lack of preparation & we overwhelmed the wiki trying to download SDKs | 20:26 |
| jayabharath | Texrat: thats correct... power supplies & SD cards too | 20:26 |
| dneary | Texrat, That's why I have been careful to talk about kits | 20:26 |
| Texrat | yep | 20:26 |
| Texrat | understood dneary | 20:26 |
| Texrat | just thinking out loud | 20:26 |
| dneary | Texrat, I would ideally like to have all the connectors etc available | 20:26 |
| dneary | jayabharath, I suggested that we could perhaps have 1 kit for 2 participants, and cap the number of participants, if it made it possible | 20:27 |
| dneary | We could make the kit loaners rather than a hardware giveaway | 20:27 |
| Texrat | it might make more sense to focus on finished products for dev training, then have live demo of dev boards by jayabharath or other | 20:27 |
| dneary | There are lots of things we might consider doing | 20:27 |
| jayabharath | dneary: I see.. | 20:27 |
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| dneary | Texrat, I really want to take a C or C++ programmer from normal laptop to SDK installed & MeeGo application built & deployed (or ready to deploy) during the session | 20:28 |
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| Texrat | I do agree that would be ideal dneary | 20:28 |
| jayabharath | dneary: Would have wifi on the platform a must... (me thinking out aloud) | 20:29 |
| dneary | The Android workshop at OSCON, for example, ran people through writing & deploying an application from scratch in 2 hours | 20:29 |
| dneary | jayabharath, I was thinking about ensuring wired internet | 20:29 |
| dneary | s/internet/network | 20:29 |
| dneary | That way, we can do it with some switches & a portable hard drive plugged into a local computer | 20:30 |
| jayabharath | wired is no issue.. we have some shortages of wifi modules.. and probably some boards without wifi that I can steal for this... (I will need to check) | 20:30 |
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| jayabharath | The question on 'kit' aspect - do you need us(TI) to fund that? (If so, I need to check with people who hold the $$) | 20:31 |
| dneary | jayabharath, We could ask for budget from the conference | 20:32 |
| jayabharath | Ok. | 20:32 |
| dneary | But ideally we'd find one partner who would be the sponsor of the session, including kit | 20:32 |
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| jayabharath | let me do this.. I will first find out if we can get boards avaiable for this.. by end of this week and will get back with options. Then we can plan futher. | 20:33 |
| jayabharath | I will ping you on irc once I have more info on board availability | 20:33 |
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| Texrat | well, dammit, RIM is turning me down on one job application after another :( | 20:33 |
| dneary | jayabharath, That sounds great | 20:34 |
| dneary | I think I have your email already | 20:34 |
| lcuk | Texrat, you do NOT want a rimjob. | 20:34 |
| jayabharath | yeah it's my name at ti.com | 20:34 |
| dneary | Texrat, I hear there's a Texas based company that makes instruments... they hiring at the moment? | 20:34 |
| lcuk | (or maybe you do!) | 20:34 |
| jayabharath | yes we have quite a few positions open in our OMAP business atm... | 20:35 |
| Texrat | dneary I worked for them years ago, and have an app in | 20:35 |
| Texrat | but I don't qualify for many current TI openings... :( | 20:35 |
| Texrat | plus it's a LONG drive from my house | 20:35 |
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| jayabharath | I will promise to forwarding it onto our recuruiting team if you need a job :) (that's the least I can do) | 20:35 |
| Texrat | the pay would have to be really good | 20:35 |
| jayabharath | Texrat: you need to move closer to where the action is .. he he :) | 20:36 |
| Texrat | jayabharath I cannot complain about your help, thanks | 20:36 |
| lcuk | jayabharath, he lives in Texas | 20:36 |
| lcuk | and he plays an instrument! | 20:36 |
| Texrat | jayabharath I can't move. :( Wife refuses | 20:36 |
| Texrat | that's a sore subject | 20:36 |
| jayabharath | lcuk: dont know any instruments to play... | 20:36 |
| Texrat | but I really loved the 7 years I worked for TI. Great company | 20:37 |
| dneary | Texrat, If there's no choice, there's no choice | 20:37 |
| mikhas | tautology day! | 20:37 |
| Texrat | was told when I went to apply for other TI openings that "we won't hire you defense workers because you can't do anythign else" | 20:37 |
| Texrat | dneary right: I have no choice. stay or divorce | 20:38 |
| dneary | That looks like a choice right there | 20:38 |
| leinir | mikhas: the first rule of tautology club is the first rule... ;) | 20:38 |
| Texrat | that's awfully flip dneary | 20:38 |
| Texrat | divorce is not a casual thing | 20:38 |
| Texrat | I have 2 sons | 20:38 |
| mikhas | leinir, ha! | 20:38 |
| dneary | Texrat, I agree | 20:38 |
| lcuk | Texrat, *grin* that hsould fire up your #tigerblood | 20:38 |
| dneary | 3 sons here | 20:38 |
| dneary | & a wife | 20:38 |
| Texrat | I would GLADLY move anywhere | 20:39 |
| Texrat | but I formed a partnership... | 20:39 |
| dneary | Marriage is a partnership, yes | 20:39 |
| Texrat | anyway for the right pay I'd make the drive to Richardson | 20:39 |
| dneary | And partners don't issue ultimata lightly | 20:39 |
| Texrat | car has 99,000 miles on it... | 20:39 |
| Stskeeps | qgil_: pong | 20:40 |
| Texrat | well dneary that gets into an ugly subject I'd prefer to just drop on IRC | 20:40 |
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| Texrat | suffice to say it is what it is | 20:40 |
| qgil_ | right Stskeeps so meego-handset list as the best candidate available for the Dev Edition work | 20:40 |
| hena | anyone have wetab? | 20:40 |
| Texrat | anyway thanks again jayabharath | 20:40 |
| qgil_ | Stskeeps: and if something more is needed over time, then discuss | 20:41 |
| qgil_ | Stskeeps: organic growth | 20:41 |
| dneary | leinir, When I was in college, I put in 2 applications for new societies: the secret society (we had meetings, but never told anyone where they were) and the anarchy society (we didn't have meetings, but occasionally announced one, and anyone who turned up was automatically thrown out of the society) | 20:41 |
| dneary | Was fun | 20:41 |
| dneary | Texrat, Sure | 20:41 |
| leinir | dneary: *laughs!* Nice one ;) | 20:41 |
| jayabharath | Texrat: I still to get back to you on the meego automation emails... will be later today | 20:41 |
| dneary | Texrat, I've been in the same situation re a move away from France; but I think if the right opportunity came along, we would move & she would follow me | 20:42 |
| Stskeeps | qgil_: yep - i was a little worried we'd again confuse meego platform vs meego 'products', but meego-handset seems a good place to have the DE effort on | 20:42 |
| Texrat | no hurry jayabharath-- that's down the road. DawnFoster made it clear we need to follow process on web site additions | 20:42 |
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| lcuk | ++ qgil_ | 20:42 |
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| jayabharath | Texrat: sound good | 20:42 |
| dneary | Anyway, we're way OT (and probably too personal) for the channel | 20:42 |
| qgil_ | DE is MeeGo work | 20:42 |
| dneary | good luck with your job hunting | 20:42 |
| Texrat | ferenc got a bit ahead of things, bless him ;) | 20:42 |
| qgil_ | Stskeeps: Jukka (what is his nick) is also fine with this, and Dawn too - so it looks like we have the basic consensus to go ahead | 20:43 |
| ferenc | Texrat: the thing I wrote in a mail is just an "idea". not even a line of code is written yet ;) | 20:43 |
| Texrat | I know ferenc, just poking you | 20:43 |
| Stskeeps | qgil_: jukka or jukkaeklund | 20:43 |
| ferenc | Texrat: let's see how far Mike and his team are with their implementation | 20:43 |
| qgil_ | Stskeeps: I already registered to meego-handset (I had missed it somehow) | 20:43 |
| Texrat | agreed ferenc | 20:44 |
| Texrat | gotta say I admire your enthusiasm for sure ;) | 20:44 |
| Stskeeps | qgil_: ok then, we have something to put on wiki then :) | 20:44 |
| ferenc | Texrat: but if they are not far, then I would certainly jump in. | 20:44 |
| qgil_ | Stskeeps: I'll let jukka go first | 20:44 |
| Texrat | ferenc, DawnFoster appears to want a formal process that would include looking at more than one solution provider | 20:44 |
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| DawnFoster | Texrat: my point is that Mike Shaver needs to pick the vendor | 20:45 |
| Texrat | yeah that | 20:45 |
| Texrat | ;) | 20:45 |
| DawnFoster | honestly, this should be pretty easy, and mike may just implement it himself | 20:45 |
| Texrat | I'm in alignment DawnFoster | 20:45 |
| ferenc | DawnFoster: so nothing stops us making the prototype I mentioned in the email | 20:45 |
| DawnFoster | ferenc: you can make a prototype if you want | 20:46 |
| Texrat | yes it would be fairly easy | 20:46 |
| DawnFoster | but it needs to go to Mike Shaver | 20:46 |
| ferenc | DawnFoster: ok | 20:46 |
| DawnFoster | ok, I have to drop offline for a while, but I'll be back on later | 20:46 |
| Texrat | I'm out soon too | 20:47 |
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| Texrat | oh, andI'm looking for discussion on https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14116 | 20:48 |
| _MeeeGoBot_ | Bug 14116 nor, Undecided, ---, dawn.m.foster, NEW, MeeGo equivalent to Forum Nokia Champion | 20:48 |
| Texrat | what the bot said | 20:48 |
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| niala1 | hello, | 20:48 |
| ferenc | Texrat: let's roll this tool then :) we can continue in email, I start doing the skeleton of the web app. | 20:49 |
| Texrat | agreed ferenc | 20:49 |
| Texrat | I was going to do my part anyway ;) | 20:49 |
| ferenc | Texrat: we could experiment with the request dispatch. When do you think you could prepare a "test form" I asked in the email? | 20:49 |
| niala1 | A way to know wich Class is my micro sdhc ? | 20:50 |
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| Stskeeps | qgil_: either way, i'm excited about the DE and looking forward to see the effort in practice - and many others including hackerish power users see the the benefit/potential | 20:51 |
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| qgil_ | Stskeeps: same here | 20:51 |
| sivan900 | dneary: thiago_workshop did not think it was harsh | 20:51 |
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| jayabharath | niala1: are there any markings on the card... | 20:51 |
| dneary | sivan900, cool | 20:52 |
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| jayabharath | niala1: ref: http://www.sdcard.org/developers/tech/speed_class/ (is what you should be looking for) | 20:52 |
| sivan900 | dneary: however my aim is to create true community nurtured improvement process based on feedback and transperancy | 20:52 |
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| dneary | sivan900, I would suggest planning a BOF around a sore point with a concrete proposal, & getting the right people in the room | 20:52 |
| dneary | I'm thinking, for example, of getting a MeeGo branding & trademark BOF going | 20:53 |
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| sivan900 | dneary: i want to ask people of the sore points when in such a bof. | 20:53 |
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| hena | nobody has wetab? how can this be? :D | 20:53 |
| sivan900 | dneary: hear of their experience | 20:53 |
| Stskeeps | dneary: sounds like a good proposal | 20:53 |
| Texrat | dneary I would love that | 20:54 |
| Texrat | later all | 20:54 |
| Stskeeps | it also helps to meet people in the flesh when its a really touchy issue | 20:54 |
| dneary | Texrat, Perhaps the Collab Summit mighht be the best place for it | 20:54 |
| sivan900 | exactly | 20:54 |
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| Texrat | not sure I'll be attending dneary but would gladly support however I could | 20:55 |
| Texrat | anyway gotta bail | 20:55 |
| sivan900 | dneary: i was amazed at people's reactions for feedback i never saw through online means. | 20:55 |
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| sivan900 | dneary: i am planning the same for desktop summit. as this has implications for any open aource project health. | 20:56 |
| sivan900 | timeless_office: poing | 20:56 |
| ali1234 | has anyone ever seen empathy video calling work? | 20:57 |
| ali1234 | it seems to have several different failure modes | 20:58 |
| ali1234 | that makes reproducing problems pretty annoying | 20:58 |
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| sivan900 | dneary: it was not complaining. it was looking at issues in the eyes and solutions were proposed in the summary. this time bof people up preferably when no other sessions and spec stuff and have a wiki writeup resource to revert to support decisions. | 21:01 |
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| * sivan900 needs wired net to send a proposal. | 21:02 | |
| ali1234 | does netbook have a "webcam troubleshooter" type wizard? | 21:02 |
| ali1234 | cos i really need that right about now | 21:02 |
| TSCHAKeee | nope | 21:03 |
| TSCHAKeee | just open up cheese | 21:03 |
| ali1234 | i opened it... got a blank grey screen | 21:03 |
| ali1234 | i'm also losing dialogs under the UI | 21:04 |
| ali1234 | when it pops up "X wants attention" and you click it, nothing happens, have to hide the panel to see the dialog | 21:04 |
| ali1234 | "cheese is not responding" | 21:04 |
| sivan900 | dneary: this is without mistake close to the ubuntu way - although for some bewildering reason everybody likes to hate ubuntu and still use it - this is what it means to "join the linux culture" | 21:04 |
| sivan900 | ah dawn is away | 21:05 |
| sivan900 | anyway better find wired net. laters. | 21:05 |
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| ali1234 | well imo ubuntu does the same thing wrong that nokia did with maemo - namely, do all development work in secret, and then keep the "community" around like a pet | 21:07 |
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| jayabharath | ali1234: similar to android you mean? | 21:07 |
| ali1234 | then when individual members of the community try to engage and say "what do you want us to do?" the only answer they get is "we want you to be more like a COMMUNITY!" | 21:08 |
| ali1234 | jayabharath: nope, because google does not try to *build* it's community in such a controlled way | 21:08 |
| ali1234 | jayabharath: the android community is more like some stray dogs around google's bins | 21:08 |
| jayabharath | ali1234: I see what you mean | 21:09 |
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| ali1234 | they might be starving but atleast they are free to do whatever they want | 21:10 |
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| ali1234 | actually i'm being harsh on ubuntu, they are nowhere near as bad for this as nokia was with maemo | 21:11 |
| ali1234 | they do at least have training programs for most areas of contribution | 21:12 |
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| gabrbedd | ali1234: When the webcam doesn't work for me... it's usually one of the hardware/bios buttons. (Like Fn+F5 or something). | 21:14 |
| ali1234 | i am on ideapad | 21:14 |
| gabrbedd | ...unless of course, there's no driver. :-) | 21:14 |
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| gabrbedd | Yep, me too. | 21:15 |
| CosmoHill | my webcam works better under linux than windows 7 | 21:15 |
| ali1234 | ah fn-esc has a picture of a camera with a cross through it | 21:15 |
| ali1234 | ah yes it works now, thanks | 21:15 |
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| ali1234 | there should be some visible feed or a better error message that "could not connect" if the cam is disabled... | 21:19 |
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| ali1234 | maybe that's not possible with the hardware though :( | 21:21 |
| ali1234 | video call still doesn't work :( | 21:22 |
| ali1234 | ah "xxx's software does not understand any of the videos formats supported by your computer" | 21:24 |
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| georgem | Has anyone used emgd with new builds of IVI? It comes up and tries to use VESA by default on my E6xx tunnel creek and when I change the x configuration to force it to use emgd I get "Xorg: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/xorg/modules/drivers/emgd_drv.so: undefined symbol: EDID_bin_read" | 21:26 |
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| vgrade | georgem, there are some example Xorg conf files in the EMGD distribution, sec while I find a link | 21:42 |
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| georgem | vgrade: IEMGD_1_5_2_GOLD_ALL_1816.zip ? | 21:43 |
| vgrade | no, there are now Meego EMGD packages | 21:49 |
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| georgem | vgrade: oh | 21:50 |
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| vgrade | http://download.meego.com/live/Trunk:/non-oss/Trunk/i586/emgd-bin-1875-1.1.i586.rpm, you will need a recently commited IVI kernel as well | 21:51 |
| georgem | vgrade: great thanks. | 21:52 |
| vgrade | good luck | 21:52 |
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| smoku | vgrade, should it work on the ideapad? | 21:57 |
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| georgem | vgrade: thanks, I got it working. I already had a newer version of that package installed. you were right though there were configurations in /usr/share/doc/emgd-bin-1859 and that made it work | 22:02 |
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| joppu | so is Harmattan really gonna be "MeeGo in name only" ? | 23:47 |
| timeless_w7ip | joppu: reading tea leaves is hard | 23:52 |
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| TSCHAKeee | my question is this: Why the fuck does it even matter, considering there are much more difficult questions left to answer? | 23:52 |
| TSCHAKeee | seriously fellas | 23:52 |
| TSCHAKeee | you're being distracted by silly shit. | 23:52 |
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| TSCHAKeee | but that seems to be the bulk of arguments in the public world, shallow, petty arguments and concerns that don't really impact the end result in any positive manner. | 23:53 |
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| timeless_w7ip | tschakeee: that's an interesting question | 23:58 |
| timeless_w7ip | in theory the main reason to care is that if it's "truly meego" then there's a "safe upgrade path" for when the vendor dies | 23:58 |
| timeless_w7ip | if it's only "meego like", then the upgrade path is dangerous | 23:59 |
| timeless_w7ip | as an example, Corel made a Linux, it wasn't "debian like", it was "debian derived" | 23:59 |
| TSCHAKeee | yes, I remember. | 23:59 |
| timeless_w7ip | so I was able to upgrade from Corel Linux to a later Debian | 23:59 |
| vgrade | georgem, hth | 23:59 |
| timeless_w7ip | I could choose to keep the corel bits or discard them | 23:59 |
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