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| npm | omg... this is the coolest thing ever (mixxx 1.9 on meego touchscreen) | 00:02 |
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| * npm unplugs and walks away w/ tablet... | 00:04 | |
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| gabrbedd | npm: Are you using OpenGL ES? | 00:22 |
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| * lbt___ looks around.... | 00:25 | |
| lbt___ | this intel guest network doesn't like irc.... | 00:25 |
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| lcukn900 | lbt not always a bad thing | 00:26 |
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| ngharo | FYI DontVTSwitch in xorg.conf does not work. 1.1 netbook still switches VTs upon ALT+LEFT_ARROW while working in a browser, etc | 00:31 |
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| lcukn900 | ngharo would that not be a generic problem? or just meego? | 00:36 |
| lcukn900 | lbt___ I hear Intel have the fastest network! | 00:36 |
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| ngharo | lcukn900: ALT+ARROW should only flip VTs when you're inside a VT | 00:40 |
| ngharo | at least that's the behavior on every linux install i've touched | 00:40 |
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| lcukn900 | cosmohill would your clustering software install onto meego? | 00:52 |
| CosmoHill | not to sure | 00:53 |
| CosmoHill | I'm basically installing someone elses bundles of stuff | 00:53 |
| lcukn900 | that is normal for most people I expect | 00:54 |
| CosmoHill | for the software I used for parallele computing you should be able to put it onto meego | 00:54 |
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| CosmoHill | lcukn900: openmpi works using ssh to computers | 01:01 |
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| CosmoHill | for example | 01:01 |
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| CosmoHill | mpirun --host node01 --host node02 -np 2 uptime | 01:01 |
| CosmoHill | that will ssh to node 1 and 2 and run the command "uptime" | 01:01 |
| lcukn900 | is that like DCOM then: | 01:02 |
| * lcukn900 wrote app using dcom once | 01:02 | |
| lcukn900 | when it was deployed to 1000 machines it had random glitches, so I rewrote the backend to use tcp and it ran happily for many years :) | 01:03 |
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| CosmoHill | I could have a go at making a openmpi.rpm for meego | 01:06 |
| lcukn900 | cosmohill, lol that could be considered a cluster, it works on a room level and displays thumbnails of all the workstations | 01:06 |
| lcukn900 | ooooh | 01:06 |
| CosmoHill | I've been thinking about making one for meego for a while | 01:06 |
| CosmoHill | even if you never use the meego device as a node, you can use it to control others, like in my example | 01:07 |
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| CosmoHill | lcukn900: a quick one I made for my server: http://download.bluesquarelinux.co.uk/felix/SPECS/openmpi.spec | 01:08 |
| CosmoHill | may I make a suggestion for this page: http://wiki.meego.com/Compliance_primer_draft_Feb2011 | 01:10 |
| CosmoHill | instead of saying at the top "please do not edit this page", why not simply lock it? | 01:10 |
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| lcukn900 | folks should be watching the page | 01:12 |
| lcukn900 | and really, changes there will spark discussion | 01:12 |
| lcukn900 | it is all logged and can be reverted or pounded out | 01:12 |
| lcukn900 | would be better than sitting on hands | 01:13 |
| CosmoHill | that is the page I want if I want to make a meego compliant rpm? | 01:13 |
| lcukn900 | i am on n900 i rarely faff opening links | 01:13 |
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| CosmoHill | would I be right in thinking that everything in /include would belong to -dev package? | 01:20 |
| * CosmoHill doesn't split his packages up so he's not used to this | 01:21 | |
| lcukn900 | cosmohill, yeah | 01:21 |
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| ali1234 | CosmoHill: i dunno about meego but usually you would have linux-headers or similar in there, it's a -dev package in all but name... | 01:26 |
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| ali1234 | on meego it might even be named as -dev, not sure | 01:27 |
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| berndhs | -devel | 01:30 |
| ali1234 | oh, you are asking what belongs in -dev packages... well, the headers in /usr/include and the .la /usr/lib, and maybe the example code if it's small, in /usr/share/ | 01:30 |
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| ali1234 | example code might be more suited to a -doc package | 01:31 |
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| * CosmoHill has hot chocolate, a muffin and a text editor | 01:34 | |
| lcukn900 | dreamy cosmohill, add a pencil and peper and you almost have the ideal dev workspace | 01:34 |
| CosmoHill | this is what I wanted, section 3.3.4 of the compliance spec | 01:35 |
| lcukn900 | it only goes to 3.3.2 | 01:36 |
| CosmoHill | mine says there's another 8 pages of stuff to go | 01:36 |
| lcukn900 | and really, hot chocolate should have its own section | 01:36 |
| lcukn900 | just like bacon | 01:36 |
| * CosmoHill spots openmpi-1.4.3.src.rpm....damn | 01:38 | |
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| CosmoHill | can I upload a src.rpm file to OBS? | 01:41 |
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| CosmoHill | can I access OBS vs git? | 01:45 |
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| CosmoHill | hey DawnFoster | 01:51 |
| DawnFoster | hey CosmoHill | 01:51 |
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| lcukn900 | evening dawn \o | 01:56 |
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| DawnFoster | evening lcukn900 | 01:58 |
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| CosmoHill | does anyone want to see the .spec file I'm writing at the moment? | 02:20 |
| CosmoHill | (please say yes) | 02:20 |
| odin_ | sounds really interesting for a friday night :P | 02:21 |
| CosmoHill | get knotted | 02:21 |
| CosmoHill | in a polite way | 02:21 |
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| lcukweb | ewww | 02:21 |
| auke | now now - don't make me kick you :) | 02:21 |
| lcukweb | :O | 02:22 |
| CosmoHill | me? | 02:22 |
| auke | CosmoHill: lol | 02:22 |
| CosmoHill | http://cross-lfs.org/~cosmo/pastebin/index.php?3 | 02:22 |
| lcukweb | i 'ewww'ed at the webclient | 02:22 |
| odin_ | go on then send us the link | 02:22 |
| auke | DawnFoster: have I used my kick quota already enough this month? | 02:22 |
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| auke | CosmoHill: spec files should never install in /opt or /usr/local | 02:23 |
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| auke | I suppose /opt is less evil, but still | 02:23 |
| lcukweb | CosmoHill: that openmpi sounds similar to osc | 02:23 |
| CosmoHill | but but, wtf | 02:23 |
| CosmoHill | I'm following the compliance draft | 02:23 |
| auke | oh | 02:23 |
| CosmoHill | http://wiki.meego.com/images/MeeGo-Compliance-Spec-1.0.99.7x.pdf | 02:24 |
| CosmoHill | section 3.3.4 | 02:24 |
| CosmoHill | page 11 / 12 | 02:24 |
| auke | sorry, I'm thinking official meego packaging - you're making an non-official pkg | 02:24 |
| CosmoHill | I almost gave you a reason to kick me :/ | 02:25 |
| lcukweb | CosmoHill: inline commenting on the spec is nice | 02:25 |
| lcukweb | there is a wiki I saw at fosdem which offers such functionality | 02:25 |
| * lcukweb looks at notes | 02:25 | |
| CosmoHill | I should meation it's not finished now | 02:26 |
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| CosmoHill | for your interest, this is what it looked like an hour ago: http://download.bluesquarelinux.co.uk/felix/SPECS/openmpi.spec | 02:27 |
| lcukweb | http://www.fosdem.org/2011/schedule/event/xwiki | 02:27 |
| CosmoHill | lcukweb: tbh, that just made me glaze over | 02:29 |
| lcukweb | CosmoHill: so at the core of the packager, it still uses "make install" | 02:29 |
| CosmoHill | yeah | 02:30 |
| lcukweb | :) | 02:30 |
| odin_ | should *.spec have the %install "rm -rf $RPM_BUILD_ROOT" line at all, I have seen that before but never understood why it was needed, i.e. isn't is covering up a real problem else where if/when it make a difference | 02:31 |
| CosmoHill | I've written a few scripts that will turn a blank, fommated hard drive into a working distro without a kernel | 02:31 |
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| CosmoHill | I think %install should work since it's a RPM macro | 02:31 |
| odin_ | %install is a section heading | 02:31 |
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| CosmoHill | the two problems I have is, 1. I don't understand the meego macros, 2. I don't understnad the non-meego macros | 02:32 |
| odin_ | %makeinstall is a relevant macro for that section but the package is using /opt so it might not expand to the intention wanted | 02:32 |
| CosmoHill | (therefore 3 would be the sum of 1 and 2 :) ) | 02:32 |
| CosmoHill | ah yes, my mistake | 02:32 |
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| CosmoHill | how's the group stuff? | 02:34 |
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| odin_ | I think the 'devel' package should have the *.so files "/opt/${name}/lib/*.so" "/opt/${name}/lib/${name}/*.so" and the runtime package should change "/opt/${name}/lib/*.so*" for "/opt/${name}/lib/*.so.*" so as not to include *.so files | 02:40 |
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| CosmoHill | I'll implement that as soon as the sugar kicks in and I can wrap my head around it | 02:41 |
| LuHe | anybody ever tried to port MeeGo to the HTC Desire HD (HTC Ace)? | 02:41 |
| LuHe | I tried to do it myself and followed the instructions for the Desire as described here http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/MSMQSD#HTC_Desire (but for the desire hd kernel) | 02:43 |
| CosmoHill | odin_: doesn't the *.so.* link to a *.so ? | 02:43 |
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| odin_ | The *.so are only used by linker to build stuff, but the *.so.1 (and/or *.so.1.0.0) are used to run stuff, as per the "ldconfig a.out" paths (on the left hand side) | 02:43 |
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| LuHe | but the link for the NEXUS One rootfs seems to be missing | 02:44 |
| CosmoHill | libmpi.so.0 => /usr/lib/libmpi.so.0 (0xb7eaa000) | 02:44 |
| CosmoHill | I see | 02:44 |
| CosmoHill | thanks odin_ | 02:44 |
| odin_ | this is why *.so is to be found in *-devel-* packaging, try "rpm -q --whatprovides /usr/lib/libjpeg.so" and "rpm -q --whatprovides /usr/lib/libjpeg.so.62" to see and example of this | 02:45 |
| CosmoHill | now my next problem / task | 02:46 |
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| CosmoHill | meego wants everything to be in /opt/openmpi, so I need to link them into the path / ld path, right? | 02:47 |
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| odin_ | nope, you can install a file into /etc/ld.so.conf.d/ and run ldconfig -v, in your %postinstall script | 02:47 |
| CosmoHill | how about the binaries? | 02:48 |
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| odin_ | for example /etc/ld.so.conf.d/openmpi.conf with 2 lines "/opt/openmpi/lib" and "/opt/openmpi/lib/openmpi" # maybe you know about this mechanism already? | 02:51 |
| odin_ | maybe /etc/profile.d/openmpi.sh is your friend there "export PATH=$PATH:/opt/openmpi/bin" | 02:51 |
| odin_ | I think anything going into /opt should work this way | 02:51 |
| CosmoHill | I don't, this is all new to me | 02:52 |
| CosmoHill | now I'll have to give you credit | 02:52 |
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| CosmoHill | is there something that tells me the distro | 03:00 |
| CosmoHill | oh wait | 03:00 |
| CosmoHill | this is meant to be pure meego spec file, not meant to be releated to my distro | 03:01 |
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| CosmoHill | http://cross-lfs.org/~cosmo/pastebin/index.php?r | 03:04 |
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| CosmoHill | I have no idea what groups meego has available btw | 03:05 |
| hirabayashitaro | Hi all, I'm a bit confused. Meego seems like a linux distribution but it is not. So to be usable as "a product" on (for example) a netbook I should expect someone to develop a distro on meego? | 03:06 |
| odin_ | also add "/sbin/ldconfig" to both %post and %postun (this causes the /etc/ld.conf.cache to be refreshed to take into account the changes you just made by creating/deleting /etc/ld.so.conf.d/* files, also at the top maybe "PreReq: /sbin/ldconfig" should also be added, but in practice all systems have this | 03:06 |
| Robot101 | hirabayashitaro: it's definitely a distro | 03:06 |
| CosmoHill | oh crap yeah | 03:06 |
| Robot101 | hirabayashitaro: it also is home to some newly-developed components such as the reference UXes | 03:06 |
| CosmoHill | does it specifically need to be /sbin ? | 03:06 |
| Robot101 | hirabayashitaro: but most of the components are upstream open source stuff, same as debian or redhat or ubuntu | 03:07 |
| hirabayashitaro | Robot101: ehiehi, the answer to this question in quite mutable | 03:07 |
| Robot101 | hirabayashitaro: what makes you think its not a distro? | 03:07 |
| hirabayashitaro | so I can expect in a "near" future to have repositories of software for end users and things like that? | 03:08 |
| odin_ | that just how I've seen probably copy'and'paste dribble, it is never in another location | 03:08 |
| hirabayashitaro | Robot101: Is something you can read almost everywhere | 03:09 |
| hirabayashitaro | Robot101: Meego is not intended for end users is kinda a meme | 03:09 |
| Robot101 | meego /devices/ intended for end users | 03:09 |
| Robot101 | you have to be a bit of a geek to take meego and reflash/install it yourself | 03:09 |
| hirabayashitaro | Robot101: You cannot say the same thing for Ubuntu or redhat | 03:11 |
| CosmoHill | odin_: http://wiki.meego.com/Packaging/Guidelines :) | 03:11 |
| hirabayashitaro | Robot101: anyway I'd like to understand, for example, if I could expect to see some end user oriented working version of meego released by this community, or I have to rely on Nokia | 03:12 |
| hirabayashitaro | The point is not clear at all in my opinion. | 03:13 |
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| Robot101 | hirabayashitaro: meego (as a platform - as a distribution) *is* a distribution, but that doesn't mean it's targetting end-users directly. it's providing tools for people like nokia or intel or other vendors to build products on top of it | 03:14 |
| CosmoHill | what do you guys think for openmpi: Development/Tools or System/Console ? | 03:15 |
| odin_ | CosmoHill, I am not sure I agree with the "Shared Libraries" section that "If you have additional commands to run during the scriptlet, call /sbin/ldconfig at the beginning of the scriptlet, like this:" if anything you should call ldconfig at the END of any manipulation (not before, so at the "end" of the section would be more correct) | 03:15 |
| Robot101 | hirabayashitaro: reference UXes are designed to make it easier for vendors to do that - they are intended to be usable but might not be polished to a consumer level - and along the way there are test images which people can flash on their devices for evaluation, development, etc | 03:16 |
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| Puddlez | Hello | 03:16 |
| Puddlez | Can anyone here provide assitants? | 03:16 |
| Robot101 | hirabayashitaro: but, those reference builds/images are targetted at developers, not end users. but it's still a distribution (IMO) :D | 03:16 |
| CosmoHill | Puddlez: no, we might be able to provide assistances tho | 03:16 |
| Puddlez | Lol | 03:16 |
| odin_ | Puddlez, how many assistants do you require ? please state the nature of your MeeGo emergency! | 03:16 |
| Puddlez | Funny | 03:16 |
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| Puddlez | I just downloaded | 03:17 |
| Puddlez | Ubuntu | 03:17 |
| Puddlez | For a class project | 03:17 |
| Puddlez | I cant get on my network though | 03:17 |
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| odin_ | ah I can see where you are going wrong there, hehe | 03:17 |
| Puddlez | Im on my vista | 03:17 |
| Puddlez | Atm | 03:17 |
| CosmoHill | this is assuming | 03:17 |
| CosmoHill | *ammusing | 03:17 |
| Puddlez | ? | 03:17 |
| Puddlez | ... | 03:18 |
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| CosmoHill | sorry, it's 1:20am, everything is a little ammsuing | 03:18 |
| Puddlez | I just need help cause i cant figure it out. | 03:18 |
| Puddlez | So yea. | 03:18 |
| Robot101 | Puddlez: try #ubuntu - this is not a general tech support channel, and it has nothing to do with ubuntu | 03:18 |
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| odin_ | Puddlez, please fill out this customer satisfaction survey, thanks for calling, you have a nice day now! | 03:19 |
| hirabayashitaro | Robot101: Can you link me something which explains the targets of the meego project? | 03:20 |
| CosmoHill | poor puddlez, if he's not pissed himself already, he will have by the time #ubuntu has finished with him | 03:20 |
| CosmoHill | brb | 03:23 |
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| Cosmo[PB] | oo oo | 03:31 |
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| lbt___ | Are we drunk yet? | 03:36 |
| berndhs | i'm lacking the necessary ingredients | 03:37 |
| lbt___ | we're about to go and work on it | 03:38 |
| lbt___ | in a hot tub in portland | 03:38 |
| lbt___ | l8r all :) | 03:38 |
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| Cosmo[PB] | I'm in bed and making openmpi for meego :) | 03:42 |
| Cosmo[PB] | wait, if this sucessfully compiles, does this me I'm a packager for a distro? | 03:43 |
| berndhs | yeah then you have to maintain it for the rest of your natural life | 03:43 |
| odin_ | Shhh! don't spoil the moment for him | 03:44 |
| Cosmo[PB] | :o :D | 03:44 |
| Cosmo[PB] | oh | 03:45 |
| Cosmo[PB] | that backfired | 03:45 |
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| Cosmo[PB] | I was using /opt/${name} to make it more generic so people can just copy and paste, it failed | 03:45 |
| Cosmo[PB] |     File not found: /home/abuild/rpmbuild/BUILDROOT/openmpi-1.4.3-12.1.i386/opt/${name}/bin | 03:46 |
| odin_ | s/\${/%{/g ? | 03:46 |
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| Cosmo[PB] | btw, it says it doesn''t liek buildroot | 03:51 |
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| Cosmo[PB] | crap, it's 2am and I need to do my workout still >.< | 03:59 |
| berndhs | i shoveled snow for 1/2 hours, that's enough | 04:03 |
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| freeedrich| | I cleaned the pool for 3/4 hours, ... | 04:07 |
| Cosmo[PB] | I have no snow or pool | 04:08 |
| berndhs | you can have my snow | 04:08 |
| Cosmo[PB] | https://build.pub.meego.com/package/live_build_log?arch=i586&package=openmpi&project=home%3Acosmo&repository=meego_1.1_extras_Netbook | 04:10 |
| Venemo | very interesting reading: http://www.h-online.com/open/features/Nokia-and-open-source-a-trial-by-fire-1194928.html | 04:12 |
| berndhs | i don't think Intel is "reeling", and I don't think it is correct to say MeeGo has "failed" | 04:16 |
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| Cosmo[PB] | odin_: turns out ${name} just fails | 04:24 |
| odin_ | use %{name} ? s/\${/%{/g | 04:24 |
| Cosmo[PB] | hmm | 04:24 |
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| berndhs | how does ${name} fail, as if its empty ? | 04:26 |
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| CosmoHill | yeah | 04:26 |
| odin_ | as-if it is literal I think ? | 04:26 |
| berndhs | probably supposed to be %{name} as odin says | 04:27 |
| CosmoHill | like /opt/%{name}/bin becomes /opt//bin | 04:27 |
| odin_ | http://stereochro.me/ideas/rpm-for-the-unwilling - maybe this link helps? | 04:27 |
| CosmoHill | yeah | 04:27 |
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| CosmoHill | it's taken about half an hour for me to understand what yo | 04:27 |
| CosmoHill | you've said | 04:27 |
| CosmoHill | I really should go to bed | 04:27 |
| berndhs | perhaps try it when you're awake :) | 04:28 |
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| CosmoHill | I'll be so pleased if this all works :) | 04:34 |
| CosmoHill | and if it doesn't I'll be to tired to care | 04:35 |
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| berndhs | rpm stuff isn't hard, just cryptic and mysterious | 04:36 |
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| CosmoHill | error: File not found: /home/abuild/rpmbuild/BUILDROOT/openmpi-1.4.3-15.1.i386/opt/openmpi/bin | 04:43 |
| CosmoHill | sysconfdir=/etc/opt/openmpi/bin/mpirun.debug | 04:43 |
| CosmoHill | wtf | 04:44 |
| CosmoHill | my spec file has no meantion of that | 04:44 |
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| odin_ | /etc/opt/%{name} ? | 04:44 |
| CosmoHill | it shouldn't put binaries in there | 04:45 |
| odin_ | but "make install" did ? | 04:45 |
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| CosmoHill | it might be something to do with the debug stuff OBS likes to build | 04:46 |
| berndhs | perhaps "make isntall" constructs a path like that | 04:46 |
| CosmoHill | doesn't matter | 04:46 |
| CosmoHill | gonna sort it out tomorrow | 04:46 |
| CosmoHill | if it's not done by midnight tomorrow I'll leave it | 04:46 |
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| berndhs | may day is unprodutive, I'm done | 04:51 |
| berndhs | good night everyone | 04:52 |
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| CosmoHill | cyas | 04:55 |
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| ngharo | rpms for facebook status support in netbook 1.1 | 06:03 |
| ngharo | https://dc414.org/~ngharo/meego/meego-facebook-plugins-1.1.1-1.i386.rpm | 06:03 |
| ngharo | https://dc414.org/~ngharo/meego/meego-facebook-plugins-bisho-1.1.1-1.i386.rpm | 06:04 |
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| dmitry1990 | êà çà õëà ð áà ëëà ð ìà ? | 07:07 |
| dmitry1990 | ýýé | 07:07 |
| dmitry1990 | êûçäà ðà é | 07:07 |
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| djszapi | Can I do these steps on all distributions where I install the program 'osc' ? http://wiki.meego.com/Build_Infrastructure/Packagers_Developers/CLI_Part_1 | 07:33 |
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| slonopotamus | http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-commits/2010-November/009569.html :D | 09:02 |
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| ar | slonopotamus: i can't help but feel that this guy was ironic | 09:08 |
| ar | http://twitter.com/timmartin2/status/23365017839599616 ;) | 09:08 |
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| Stskeeps | slonopotamus: part of example to state your package ownership :P | 09:09 |
| slonopotamus | ar: mwahaha :) | 09:13 |
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| Stskeeps | morn Termana | 09:53 |
| Termana | morning | 09:53 |
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| jbos | hello, Stskeeps, may you can answer me this, who is creating the weekly trunk images? Is tis some kind of automatic process triggered by OBS? | 15:23 |
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| Stskeeps | jbos: semi-automatic | 15:24 |
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| Stskeeps | it's done with mic2 | 15:24 |
| jbos | ok, we would like to start creating a automatic testing system / workflow | 15:25 |
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| jbos | to improve our meego libs / keep them working y' know. | 15:26 |
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| jbos | what we wondered, on public obs - is there a way to let it produce images? | 15:26 |
| Stskeeps | well, obs just builds packages and makes repositories | 15:27 |
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| jbos | yea but shouldn't it be able to produce complete distros? | 15:28 |
| jbos | so but than - i can see that if many people do this :D | 15:29 |
| Stskeeps | it exports repositories and then you use a image creator make the repositories into a image | 15:29 |
| Stskeeps | the idea for more business logic is the BOSS system | 15:29 |
| jbos | mhm yep I read about this, is it already running? | 15:30 |
| Stskeeps | i think in some form | 15:30 |
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| Stskeeps | i mean, mic2 is cron-able already | 15:30 |
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| jbos | i think i still miss some links between OBS, and BOSS and how this fit in the 'app/lib' development workflow | 15:32 |
| jbos | :) | 15:32 |
| Stskeeps | right | 15:32 |
| Stskeeps | so, BOSS listens to events from OBS and helps to make business logic on top of this | 15:32 |
| Stskeeps | like continous integration, etc, building images, etc.. | 15:33 |
| jbos | will BOSS be on 'user account basis?' | 15:33 |
| Stskeeps | don't know :) | 15:33 |
| jbos | so everyone with a OBS account will be able to configure his own BOSS ( .... :D) | 15:33 |
| Stskeeps | http://wiki.meego.com/BOSS | 15:33 |
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| jbos | k, well btw. finaly we managed to setup a fully crosscompiling (arm and i86) toolchain with realtime rpmizsation, deploy and debug on meego - from within the qt creator | 15:35 |
| Stskeeps | cool | 15:35 |
| jbos | took us some brain | 15:35 |
| Stskeeps | contribute to sdk work? ;) | 15:36 |
| jbos | its all possible with the current sdk | 15:36 |
| Stskeeps | ah | 15:36 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, that was what i wondered :P | 15:36 |
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| jbos | well, point is - its really just a single line to go... we have a setup of 4 projects | 15:36 |
| jbos | 2 seperate QML Uis | 15:37 |
| jbos | 2 libraries | 15:37 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 15:37 |
| Stskeeps | blog about your experiences? | 15:37 |
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| jbos | Yeap. Started here: http://www.jeremias-bosch.com/?p=79 | 15:38 |
| jbos | last bits about deployment just finalizing | 15:38 |
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| jbos | but.... well your options to go are very very stricted to basically 1. | 15:38 |
| jbos | :) | 15:39 |
| jbos | use qmake, use own sysroot, use linux | 15:39 |
| jbos | (I dont get it working in windows) | 15:39 |
| Stskeeps | i think there's a OBS plugin | 15:39 |
| jbos | there is ? | 15:39 |
| jbos | that would be more than nice | 15:39 |
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| Stskeeps | http://blog.qt.nokia.com/2011/01/21/qt-creator-build-service-plug-in/ | 15:40 |
| jbos | i actually considered to make one | 15:40 |
| jbos | this is cool | 15:40 |
| jbos | need to take a look | 15:40 |
| jbos | one thing, we found very much not funny | 15:41 |
| jbos | the gcc version in obs native builds != the gcc in the toolchain | 15:41 |
| Stskeeps | yes | 15:41 |
| Stskeeps | that one is a screwup in 1.1 | 15:41 |
| Stskeeps | in 1.2 the situation is much better afaik | 15:41 |
| jbos | we got a bit scarred about this ;) | 15:41 |
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| jbos | i heard the rumor that 1.2 will provide meegocore - full dev lib - toolchain / sysroots | 15:42 |
| jbos | is that correct? Do you know? | 15:42 |
| Stskeeps | possibly, but ask #meego-sdk guys during the work week days | 15:43 |
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| Stskeeps | my worry is scratchboxisms :) | 15:43 |
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| Stskeeps | like the software depending on things that are in sysroot but not part of meego api, so it doesn't declare dependancies | 15:44 |
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| Stskeeps | but i guess that the RPM's ld.so based dependancies might take care of it.. | 15:44 |
| Stskeeps | (libGLESv2.so.2 Requires:) | 15:44 |
| Stskeeps | so people don't declare correct deps in the spec for building | 15:45 |
| djszapin900 | does someone an rpm arm package on archlinux host ? | 15:45 |
| jbos | mhm | 15:45 |
| jbos | You know I see several people trying to work on meego apps | 15:46 |
| jbos | and we tried a lot of different approaches ourself | 15:46 |
| djszapin900 | is it possible to build an rpm package on arch host ? | 15:47 |
| Stskeeps | djszapin900: ask in archlinux irc channel? | 15:47 |
| jbos | ... from both projects: Firefox Mobile and Peregrine Communicator..... Both with totaly different build requierments... | 15:47 |
| Stskeeps | jbos: yeah - we need a straightforward development story | 15:48 |
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| Stskeeps | jbos: firefox mobile is just crazy to build | 15:48 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 15:48 |
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| jbos | well I work on that little babe since about 2 Years or so... | 15:48 |
| jbos | it improved a lot | 15:48 |
| jbos | :) | 15:48 |
| djszapin900 | stskeeps ask on both ? | 15:48 |
| gabrbedd | Stskeeps: jbos: The downside of a "straightforward development story" is usually gooey (GUI)... | 15:48 |
| djszapin900 | here and there ?! | 15:48 |
| Stskeeps | djszapin900: people here aren't likely to know if you can build rpms for arm on archlinux | 15:49 |
| gabrbedd | Stskeeps: jbos: And I like my terminal. :-) | 15:49 |
| Stskeeps | djszapin900: so it's offtopic :) | 15:49 |
| Stskeeps | gabrbedd: osc build ;p | 15:49 |
| djszapin900 | stskeeps meego package making is oo topic | 15:49 |
| gabrbedd | Stskeeps: Then I have to be connected to a network to do anythin. :-p | 15:49 |
| Stskeeps | gabrbedd: not really | 15:49 |
| djszapin900 | * off | 15:49 |
| jbos | well yes,... the point is, both options must work, terminal and gooey | 15:49 |
| djszapin900 | time to ignore... | 15:49 |
| jbos | terminal for i.e. firefox mobile | 15:50 |
| gabrbedd | Anyway... I'm just putting in a word for us CLI geeks. :-) | 15:50 |
| Stskeeps | djszapin900: how mature | 15:50 |
| jbos | you wont be able to build firefox mobile with qt creator... | 15:50 |
| jbos | but you would also not like to build firefox mobile within a freaking qemu | 15:50 |
| jbos | arm thingy | 15:50 |
| jbos | its slow, unstable and very scary... So what options do you have left? If you need to use a terminal | 15:51 |
| jbos | ... OBS, and i.e. your native N900 :D | 15:52 |
| jbos | comming back to Firefox - it take about 20 minutes to compile on my quad core i7 | 15:52 |
| jbos | with HT | 15:52 |
| Stskeeps | obs ARM building is really nice | 15:52 |
| jbos | guess how long it take on a n900 with meego running *laugh* | 15:53 |
| fellu | :o | 15:53 |
| Stskeeps | jbos: well, you'd have to be insane to do it on a n900 ;) | 15:53 |
| jbos | yeap... so currently we use some very bad hackish scratchbox kind of thing | 15:54 |
| Stskeeps | jbos: why, though? | 15:54 |
| Stskeeps | i mean, osc build and osc chroot is very capable for this | 15:54 |
| jbos | mhm | 15:54 |
| jbos | rapid development? | 15:54 |
| Stskeeps | still? | 15:55 |
| Stskeeps | i mean, usually i just have a chroot laying about with cross compilers already installed | 15:55 |
| jbos | ok. I need to consider this | 15:55 |
| Stskeeps | ie, run osc build once, re-use chroot | 15:55 |
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| Stskeeps | i mean, it'd feel like a really fast arm machine :) | 15:56 |
| Stskeeps | to build on | 15:56 |
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| jbos | i think we have basically the same this scratchbox thingy is somekind of chroot ... well duno. most times its enough to build for desktop | 15:56 |
| Stskeeps | i mean, that's how we build fennec-qt for arm :) | 15:57 |
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| jbos | mhm yea. Lokesh is mostly taking care about all meego integration :) | 15:58 |
| Stskeeps | so you guys were basyskom or how was it? | 15:58 |
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| jbos | well I'm employee there, yep. But we are a group of people from ixonos, digia, nokia, basyskom, mozilla | 15:59 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 15:59 |
| jbos | working on getting the best mobile browser on meego | 16:00 |
| jbos | :) | 16:00 |
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| jbos | right now, well, its hard work to shift most responsibilities to mozilla, upstream our changes and patches | 16:01 |
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| jbos | getting rid of non meego core dependencies | 16:01 |
| jbos | like meegotouch | 16:01 |
| jbos | (and still keep functionality) | 16:02 |
| jbos | :) | 16:02 |
| jbos | well and my second project - which i do in my spare time is peregrine communicator | 16:02 |
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| jbos | We get sponsored by basyskom (server, website, hardware (like weetab, n900, ideapads...)) | 16:03 |
| jbos | but no working time :( ;) | 16:03 |
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| CosmoHill | nate@blue[1014]:~/meego/opt $ ls | 16:31 |
| CosmoHill | openmpi--sysconfdir= | 16:31 |
| CosmoHill | that kinda explains why it failed on the OBS | 16:31 |
| gabrbedd | Is there now a Trunk:HPC group in OBS? :-p | 16:33 |
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| CosmoHill | gabrbedd: that doesn't surprise me to be honest | 16:39 |
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| gabrbedd | I'm curious, though... why package openmpi for meego? | 16:41 |
| * CosmoHill shurgs | 16:41 | |
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| CosmoHill | practice run? boredom? running low on brain power at 11pm | 16:42 |
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| gabrbedd | ...just curious, that's all. :-) | 16:43 |
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| Stskeeps | gabrbedd: everything is collapsed into Trunk anyway | 16:44 |
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| * CosmoHill takes a breath | 16:59 | |
| CosmoHill | FFFFFUUUU..... | 16:59 |
| CosmoHill | there wasn't a space between "--prefix=/foo--sysconfig=/etc" | 17:00 |
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| CosmoHill | salut DawnFoster | 17:04 |
| DawnFoster | hey CosmoHill | 17:05 |
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| *** Guest47169 is now known as vgrademk | 17:08 | |
| vgrademk | http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-commits/2011-February/017283.html | 17:08 |
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| * Stskeeps looks | 17:08 | |
| Stskeeps | that's nice :) | 17:09 |
| vgrademk | Emgd for 2.6.37. | 17:09 |
| Stskeeps | at least gma500 people are getting some support :) | 17:10 |
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| * CosmoHill gasps | 17:12 | |
| vgrademk | Will try a joggler adaptation. | 17:12 |
| CosmoHill | I think I made a package | 17:12 |
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| CosmoHill | were are the finished .rpm files? | 17:14 |
| vgrademk | Report.pub.meego.com | 17:16 |
| vgrademk | Repo. | 17:16 |
| CosmoHill | I can't seem to find it | 17:16 |
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| hena | ½. | 17:18 |
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| hena | oops | 17:21 |
| berndhs | hena: ½ ? I call | 17:21 |
| CosmoHill | hmm, I found a link to the download location and it says 404 | 17:21 |
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| * CosmoHill pokes X-Fade | 17:28 | |
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| Jaffa | CosmoHill: You'll be lucky. bergie & X-Fade seem to have dropped off the face of the planet (except for bergie's regular Twitter updates) | 17:32 |
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| Stskeeps | X-Fade's in the us | 17:35 |
| Stskeeps | afaik | 17:35 |
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| CosmoHill | I don't seem to have a download repo of my own | 17:36 |
| CosmoHill | even tho my package built | 17:36 |
| berndhs | what's your user name there ? | 17:38 |
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| CosmoHill | "cosmo" | 17:38 |
| berndhs | yes, its not there | 17:38 |
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| berndhs | normally it would be in /home:/cosmo | 17:39 |
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| CosmoHill | http://repo.pub.meego.com//home:/cosmo/meego_1.1_extras_Netbook | 17:40 |
| CosmoHill | that's the link it gives me | 17:40 |
| vgrademk | Don't know if my last message was sent as I'm mobile but it was reported earlier I think that repo publishing was us | 17:40 |
| CosmoHill | vgrademk: last thing I heard from you was at 15:15 | 17:41 |
| vgrademk | You may need to ping lbt | 17:42 |
| CosmoHill | I'd imagine he's doing birthday stuff this weekend | 17:43 |
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| CosmoHill | or was it last week | 17:43 |
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| CosmoHill | how come auke has two repos and I don't have any? | 18:36 |
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| berndhs | CosmoHill: auke is more special than you are ? | 18:41 |
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| CosmoHill | how do distros know if ethernet is connected? dbus? | 19:18 |
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| timeless_xchat | :( someone could have told me the meegon was missing from other pages | 19:23 |
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| * timeless_xchat ponders | 19:36 | |
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| timeless_xchat | how painful is it to set up obs? | 19:37 |
| timeless_xchat | is there an rpm for it? :) | 19:37 |
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| Stskeeps | appliance | 19:37 |
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| ali1234 | timeless_xchat: it is still pretty painful - setting up the OBS is only about 10% of the actual work you need to do | 19:40 |
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| Stskeeps | http://wiki.meego.com/User:Stskeeps/10_easy_steps_to_a_local_OBS | 19:41 |
| Stskeeps | (may be a bit out of date) | 19:41 |
| ali1234 | yeah, set 1/10 is "set up the OBS" | 19:41 |
| timeless_xchat | stskeeps: i'd want it to sandbox pain for mxr | 19:41 |
| Stskeeps | timeless_xchat: why do you need obs for mxr.. | 19:41 |
| timeless_xchat | i'm not nesting a vm into a vm | 19:41 |
| timeless_xchat | stskeeps : rpmbuild -bp seems to randomly run configure for various rpm's | 19:42 |
| timeless_xchat | which seems absolutely bogus | 19:42 |
| timeless_xchat | but there you have it | 19:42 |
| ali1234 | you don't have to run it in a VM, but you basically do have to install opensuse | 19:42 |
| ali1234 | this is a detailed version of step 1: http://wiki.meego.com/User:Ali1234#Notes_on_Setting_Up_Private_OBS_.28WIP.29 | 19:42 |
| Stskeeps | timeless_xchat: why you do -bp ..? | 19:42 |
| ali1234 | i never got any further than that | 19:42 |
| timeless_xchat | stskeeps: i want patched sources | 19:43 |
| timeless_xchat | otherwise what you have isn't what you're running | 19:43 |
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| Stskeeps | why not just grab debuginfo then? | 19:43 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 19:43 |
| Jbos | mhm the Meego SDK Linux Setup of Intel Tablet UX does not support opensuse... :( | 19:43 |
| vlj | hi | 19:43 |
| vlj | ab: hi ! | 19:43 |
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| ab | vlj, | 19:44 |
| timeless_xchat | debuginfo!=sources | 19:44 |
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| Jbos | hey timeless_xchat, how are you. | 19:44 |
| timeless_xchat | it's just references to line numbers | 19:44 |
| timeless_xchat | jbos: pretty good | 19:44 |
| Stskeeps | timeless_xchat: debuginfo contains sources in meego | 19:44 |
| Stskeeps | timeless_xchat: for gdb'ing | 19:44 |
| timeless_xchat | stskeeps : wtf? | 19:44 |
| Stskeeps | timeless_xchat: in opensuse, they have debugsource | 19:44 |
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| timeless_xchat | stskeeps: got a url for a sample rpm? | 19:45 |
| Stskeeps | timeless_xchat: repo.meego.com somewhere, too lazy to find it | 19:45 |
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| timeless_xchat | jbos: i hit your "missing time on debian" issue when setting up mxr.meego.com | 19:46 |
| timeless_xchat | but it's mostly up | 19:46 |
| timeless_xchat | including a meegon! | 19:46 |
| vlj | ab: quillimage does not allow to store image in a 32bits format ? | 19:46 |
| Jbos | timeless_xchat i was checking latley mxr but it seems to miss certain "symbole click" feature | 19:46 |
| Jbos | which i like the most about mxr :) | 19:46 |
| timeless_xchat | jbos : should be working now | 19:47 |
| timeless_xchat | at least temporarily | 19:47 |
| Jbos | k, yea i tried to understand how meegotouch is doing rotation of apps... | 19:47 |
| timeless_xchat | i didn't build the xref initially because i wasn't happy w/ the source extraction story | 19:47 |
| Jbos | to copy certain missing steps to firefox mobile... | 19:47 |
| Jbos | ye | 19:47 |
| Jbos | i see | 19:47 |
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| toadpole | what's the current meego n900 build? | 19:48 |
| ab | vlj, as it is using qimage, it does allow it. | 19:48 |
| Jbos | just finaly cron'd peregrine mxr today | 19:48 |
| vlj | ab: qimage stores image as 8 bits rgb | 19:49 |
| Jbos | still want to improve the html code / layout | 19:49 |
| Jbos | :) want to have it more web2.0 ish | 19:49 |
| vlj | it is possible to store float rgb value instead ? | 19:49 |
| timeless_xchat | jbos: there are some temporary patches on mxr.meego.com which might interest you | 19:50 |
| Jbos | right now it looks a bit to oldschool ( www.jeremias-bosch.com/mxr ) | 19:50 |
| ab | vlj, QImage::Format_RGB32 or ARGB32 | 19:50 |
| ab | vlj, but no float rgb | 19:50 |
| Jbos | yep, have a buglist? | 19:51 |
| vlj | ab: qt can then convert them into 8bit rgb ? | 19:51 |
| Jbos | so i can take a look | 19:51 |
| timeless_xchat | see .hg/patches | 19:51 |
| timeless_xchat | i finally refactored some of it | 19:51 |
| timeless_xchat | especially the tree switcher | 19:51 |
| ab | vlj, that's one limitation as QImage is mostly about painting something before drawing it to screen. THey are not really about image processing | 19:51 |
| timeless_xchat | not really, patches tend to have vaguely meaningful names and one line hg commit messages | 19:51 |
| vlj | ok | 19:51 |
| timeless_xchat | i have perhaps a dozen i'm close to pushing to hg proper | 19:52 |
| timeless_xchat | maybe tomorrow | 19:52 |
| ab | vlj, I'm working on a new qt imaging module but it will take some time before code becomes usable | 19:52 |
| ab | especially with current circumstances | 19:52 |
| Jbos | ok | 19:52 |
| timeless_xchat | the tree switcher one will help you | 19:52 |
| timeless_xchat | it'll automatically hide the tree switcher if you only have one tree | 19:52 |
| vlj | ab: I was asking because I'm using float array to store hdr image right now | 19:53 |
| vlj | I would like a "better integrated" way of storing image | 19:53 |
| Jbos | i see | 19:53 |
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| vlj | ab: btw are image in QImage stored in row major or column major way ? | 19:53 |
| Jbos | i will take a deeper review of those patches tomorrow or so :) for today my server can sleep ;) | 19:54 |
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| * timeless_xchat nods | 19:55 | |
| timeless_xchat | you'll definitely want to use mq - so you can qpop+qdel when they land upstream | 19:55 |
| Jbos | yep, | 19:56 |
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| ab | vlj, they are row major | 19:57 |
| vlj | ab: qt imaging should be an "official" part of qt or ? | 19:57 |
| vlj | ok | 19:57 |
| ab | vlj, that's unknown yet. Depends on what we'll achieve :) | 19:58 |
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| vlj | and btw | 19:58 |
| vlj | can qt-mobility Camera part use webcam on desktop computer ? | 19:59 |
| ab | it should be possible, barring obvious limitations | 19:59 |
| vlj | because I'm lacking samples to test the accuracy of my hdr routine | 20:00 |
| timeless_xchat | jbos : btw, your readme could use some line breaks ;) | 20:00 |
| Jbos | :D the readme need some update | 20:01 |
| vlj | right now I'm using images from links here http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~lizhang/courses/cs766-2007f/projects/hdr/index.htm | 20:01 |
| vlj | but they are probably not licenceable to run unit test for instance | 20:02 |
| Jbos | its totaly out of sync after last week jump from cmake to qmake... i just see the guys left cmake files ;) | 20:02 |
| ab | yep | 20:02 |
| timeless_xchat | hrm, there's something wrong w/ the source header, it has an extra blank area | 20:03 |
| timeless_xchat | need to figure out why | 20:03 |
| vlj | I'm thinking of using my N8 to get some picture using qt -mobility but it would be easier if qt-mobility can take images from webcam | 20:03 |
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| vlj | (no stabilising issue) | 20:04 |
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| vlj | ab: hdr construction and compression works acceptably well using jpeg | 20:06 |
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| vlj | it came to me as a surprise but using the jpeg sample produces correct image | 20:06 |
| vlj | there are some minor artifacts however | 20:06 |
| ab | interesting | 20:06 |
| * timeless_xchat breaks the index and cries | 20:07 | |
| ab | you may probably take some CC images from Flickr for unit tests | 20:07 |
| vlj | good suggestion | 20:09 |
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| timeless_xchat | jbos : oh, you might not have noticed, but look at the bottom of e.g. http://mxr.meego.com/meego.gitorious.org/source/qemu/qlist.c#158 | 20:10 |
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| bergie | Jaffa: I'm in Vienna so connectivity to the infra is a bit limited, and X-Fade is in the US | 20:11 |
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| timeless_xchat | jaffa: what's up? | 20:12 |
| timeless_xchat | hey bergie, whatcha doing in vienna? | 20:12 |
| bergie | timeless_xchat: http://aloha-editor.org/wiki/index.php/Aloha_Editor_Dev_Con_11 | 20:13 |
| bergie | hacking semantic web editing tools | 20:13 |
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| * timeless_xchat settles for hopping off a train in search of a movie night | 20:15 | |
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| vlj | ab: thank for information :) | 20:19 |
| vlj | brb | 20:19 |
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| Jaffa | bergie: Can you poke someone with connectivity then about ticket #1981? | 20:53 |
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| smoku | MeeGo_current_Core_standard is not a valid repository, use one of: meego_1.1_core | 21:17 |
| smoku | huh??! | 21:17 |
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| npm | gabrbedd: yesterday you asked about whether i saw waveform display error in mixxx 1.9 on meego 1.2 -- answer: YES | 21:23 |
| npm | gabrbedd: i tried several different things that had fixed the problem in 1.8 and earlier, but it didn't work in 1.9 -- as you reported as well | 21:24 |
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| gabrbedd | npm: I figured that you were seeing them... I was just curious if you were using OpenGL ES ? | 21:28 |
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| gabrbedd | npm: Before, you had talked about switching to software rendering to get it to work. | 21:28 |
| npm | i tried using 'raster' 'opengl' and 'x11' systemgraphics per http://labs.qt.nokia.com/2008/10/22/so-long-and-thanks-for-the-blit/ and nothing helped | 21:29 |
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| npm | gabrbedd: that was for 1.8 on fedora... 1.9 seems to have fixed the problem on fedora but now meego is broken | 21:29 |
| npm | IMHO what's going on is this: WaveformViewerFactory :: Sharing existing GL context. | 21:30 |
| npm | after doing WaveformViewerFactory :: Making new GL context. | 21:31 |
| npm | as in it's probably not even using the same graphics context it's drawing into | 21:31 |
| gabrbedd | npm: so when you said "meegolem hack" you were pretty much using a Fedora Qt setup (with full Open GL). | 21:31 |
| gabrbedd | ? | 21:31 |
| npm | i always end up seeing dropping from other screens in there | 21:31 |
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| npm | actually the first time i compiled with fedora qt devels but meego libs (bad idea) | 21:32 |
| npm | the second time i removed all fedora qt and used only meego 4.7.1 qt devel and libs | 21:32 |
| gabrbedd | npm: lol! yes, bad idea. :-) | 21:32 |
| npm | and it still happened | 21:32 |
| npm | it actually worked fine.... | 21:32 |
| npm | the only thing that puked was mixing meego and fedora libtag | 21:33 |
| npm | but i decided to clean it up and remove as much fedora stuff as possible and still have all the apps run | 21:33 |
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| gabrbedd | so, what did you do to make the waveforms /work/ ? I'm still confused. | 21:34 |
| npm | they don't work | 21:34 |
| npm | thats what i was confirming | 21:34 |
| gabrbedd | OH! :-) | 21:34 |
| npm | the trick i mentioned worked in fedora previously | 21:34 |
| npm | but i tried it various differenrt ways and it didn't work on meego | 21:34 |
| npm | and yes it has to do with GL graphics contexts being used improperly imho | 21:35 |
| gabrbedd | npm: Well, FWIW... I'm starting to think it's a bug in Qt. | 21:36 |
| npm | so feel free to pester the MIXXX people into fixing the bug... i've done enough pestering for the day :-) | 21:36 |
| gabrbedd | ...but the problem is that I can't isolate the bug. | 21:36 |
| gabrbedd | I've pulled all the waveform code out of Mixxx and into a test app... and the code works fine. | 21:36 |
| npm | it could be... i guess the other experiment i could try is completely overwrite meego's qt with fedora's | 21:36 |
| npm | but i'm trying to make stuff work, not break everything these days :-) | 21:37 |
| gabrbedd | No, I don't recommend doing that. | 21:37 |
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| gabrbedd | :-) | 21:37 |
| npm | you can... it is interesting | 21:37 |
| npm | my least proud moment of meegolemization: lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 10 2011-02-25 21:35 /usr/lib/python2.7 -> python2.6// | 21:38 |
| npm | but i just installed gpodder and all it's python modules and everything works beautifully | 21:38 |
| gabrbedd | Well, the code works for everyone else (with regular OpenGL)... and it's the only thing really different on MeeGo. | 21:38 |
| npm | one thing i've been thinking about is upgrading meego's python to 2.7 instead of using the symlink to make meego and fedora's python modules work together | 21:39 |
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| gabrbedd | The EGL/GLESv2 code in Mesa and QPaintEngine (AFAIK) haven't had nearly as much testing as the regular OpenGL libs. | 21:39 |
| gabrbedd | For example, if you drag and drop a track to load it... | 21:40 |
| gabrbedd | Then mcompositor (meegotouch-compositor) crashes. | 21:40 |
| gabrbedd | That's the window manager... so EVERYTHING crashes. | 21:40 |
| npm | worksforme... | 21:40 |
| gabrbedd | That was an unchecked pointer in Mesa's EGL driver. | 21:40 |
| npm | i was dragging and dropping files in mixxx for several hours last night | 21:40 |
| gabrbedd | I believe you... but it still crashed for me and I was able to get the smoking backtrace. :-) | 21:41 |
| npm | the main instability I saw is using ALSA rather than jack... usual timing wonkiness from not running realtime | 21:41 |
| npm | oh, i have the smoking backtraces: -rw------- 1 root root 7417964 2011-02-26 11:26 /var/log/messages | 21:43 |
| npm | 7 megabytes of them. | 21:43 |
| gabrbedd | No, I meant for the crash. :-) | 21:43 |
| gabrbedd | ...the one specific crash. | 21:43 |
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| npm | speaking of crashes -- http://nielsmayer.com/meego/netbook-ia32-1.2/meego-networking-fails-syslog.txt | 21:45 |
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| gabrbedd | npm: are you using clutter? (the netbook ux) | 21:46 |
| npm | yes | 21:47 |
| gabrbedd | that's why dragging didn't crash for you. | 21:47 |
| npm | so what are you running? | 21:47 |
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| npm | isn't indamixxx based on the netbook ux or does it have its own? | 21:48 |
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| gabrbedd | Up to January we were netbook. And right now the beta program tablets will come with netbook. | 21:49 |
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| npm | r u using intel tablet ux? | 21:49 |
| gabrbedd | But netbook is not for tablets... and the devs say it will never be for tablets. | 21:49 |
| gabrbedd | And we're selling tablets. | 21:49 |
| gabrbedd | Not yet on the Intel Tablet UX. | 21:50 |
| gabrbedd | I switched over to handset to do what... well, they did. | 21:50 |
| npm | yes the netbook ux is not optimized for tablet usage... for example, you unpin the icons when you hit them with your finger instead of clicking them | 21:50 |
| gabrbedd | I haven't switched over my dev environment yet... since I see that they're using mostly the same stack that I'm using. | 21:50 |
| ali1234 | the whole idea of a button panel that appears when you mouse over it completely fails on a tablet | 21:51 |
| gabrbedd | stack: meego touch framework (mcompositor window manager instead of clutter) | 21:51 |
| gabrbedd | ali1234: Well, believe it or not we've gotten good at dragging our fingers over to get the pin to appear. :-) | 21:52 |
| npm | so when i'm using 'mixxx' with netbook ux -- it's not using opengl? | 21:52 |
| npm | and in your case it is? | 21:52 |
| ali1234 | gabrbedd: me too but it's not exactly something you would put in a product you expect people to buy | 21:52 |
| gabrbedd | ali1234: Right! | 21:52 |
| ali1234 | without doubt the tablet UX works better on a netbook than the netbook UX works on a tablet | 21:53 |
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| gabrbedd | npm: Yes, and I think Trunk is even using OpenGL ESv2. | 21:53 |
| gabrbedd | npm: It's just not using mcompositor for the window manager. | 21:53 |
| npm | how would i check? | 21:53 |
| gabrbedd | check for mcompositor? | 21:53 |
| * npm reads xdpyinfo | 21:54 | |
| npm | yes | 21:54 |
| gabrbedd | ps aux | grep mcompositor | 21:54 |
| npm | ah thans | 21:54 |
| npm | thanx | 21:55 |
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| gabrbedd | btw, your wifi crashes look like they're happening in the kernel. | 21:56 |
| gabrbedd | Have you filed a bug? | 21:56 |
| npm | yep | 21:56 |
| npm | i attached it to previous bugs i'd filed | 21:56 |
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| npm | ath9k looks problematic | 21:56 |
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| npm | but also having problems w/ wired | 21:57 |
| npm | and tracker seems to be involved somehow as well (migbht be a secondary issue) http://nielsmayer.com/meego/netbook-ia32-1.2/tracker-banshee-kernel-fail.txt | 21:57 |
| npm | https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13778 | 21:57 |
| MeeGoBot | Bug 13778 nor, Undecided, 1.1.90.4, martin.xu, ASSI, Wireless connection loses "router" setting for Static-IP | 21:57 |
| npm | https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13780 | 21:58 |
| MeeGoBot | Bug 13780 nor, Undecided, 1.1.90.4, martin.xu, ASSI, Wired connection stops working when transferring lots of data | 21:58 |
| npm | i just turned off tracker so i'll see if that has something to do with it... | 21:58 |
| gabrbedd | ok. | 21:59 |
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| npm | gabrbedd: by the way what's your fav qt skin for apps... i'm finding the meego one makes existing interfaces and dialogs not fit but 'plastique' does and isn't bad to use with the finger | 22:04 |
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| npm | http://nielsmayer.com/meego/qtractor-dialogs-meego.png vs http://nielsmayer.com/meego/qtractor-dialogs-plastique-style-meego.png | 22:05 |
| gabrbedd | npm: I've always like plastique. What I think is interesting, though... is how it looks "old" when you use it in MeeGo. | 22:05 |
| gabrbedd | npm: Indeed, QJackCtl's settings won't fit on the screen unless you switch to something like plastique. | 22:05 |
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| npm | and also the meego style looks all "greyed out" and the buttons are hard to see if clicked | 22:06 |
| npm | plastique the clicked button is bright red | 22:06 |
| thiago_home | npm: since it doesn't look like a Qt style, it must be Gtk+ | 22:06 |
| npm | which? the meego style? | 22:07 |
| thiago_home | yes | 22:07 |
| thiago_home | the default must be Gtk+, which loads the Gtk style of choice | 22:07 |
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| npm | on my fedora desktop, i seem to be using a style between gtk and qt that looks similar | 22:08 |
| npm | (plastique actually) | 22:08 |
| npm | (i use kde) | 22:08 |
| npm | is there a way to set that for meego, so that the gtk and qt all look like my fedora desktop? | 22:09 |
| npm | and when is kde going to save the day and release a nice tablet ux for meego :-) | 22:10 |
| ali1234 | my favourite Qt style is QGtkStyle | 22:11 |
| ali1234 | and my standard challenge for anyone who claim that KDE is better than gnome because KDE is more configurable, is to make KDE look exactly like gnome... | 22:12 |
| npm | so does QGtkStyle do that? | 22:12 |
| ali1234 | no | 22:12 |
| ali1234 | it makes Qt apps look like gtk apps | 22:13 |
| ali1234 | but it doesn't make KDE look like gnome | 22:13 |
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| gabrbedd | npm: One of the KDE devs said they had a small team working on a Tablet environment -- though I don't know if they're targeting it being a "MeeGo UX" | 22:15 |
| gabrbedd | npm: Check the ML archives on meego-community for one of the Tablet UX threads | 22:16 |
| gabrbedd | npm: ...or on meego-dev where a KDE dev introduced their intention to collaborate with MeeGo. | 22:16 |
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| thiago_home | KDE would make a Plasma-Tablet UX | 22:17 |
| thiago_home | it's up to MeeGo to adopt it or not | 22:17 |
| ali1234 | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjO5X1ADUrE | 22:17 |
| thiago_home | in any case, there's a MeeGo tablet UX being done by Intel (shown at MWC last week) | 22:17 |
| npm | ali1234: thanks for suggesting QGtkStyle -- looks good | 22:18 |
| ali1234 | npm: it's used by default if you use a gnome desktop... if you try to use it on KDE, it doesn't really work | 22:19 |
| ali1234 | it doesn't change how plasmoids or the panel or the window decorations look | 22:19 |
| ali1234 | and all the KDE versions of those just look even worse if you use a gnome style for widgets | 22:19 |
| ali1234 | KDE is fixated on ugly gradients everywhere for some reason | 22:20 |
| ali1234 | doesn't work too well with the usual flat gtk styles | 22:20 |
| npm | since there's no open-source tablet uX for meego, and people are in agreement that the netbook ux doesn't cut it for touchscreens... seems like plasma-based QML stuff could be the open source tablet solution we need | 22:20 |
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| thiago_home | I'm pretty sure Intel will open-source it | 22:21 |
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| npm | it certainly has the apache license there. | 22:21 |
| ali1234 | if you look in the code, it's really simple | 22:22 |
| npm | simple, but hard to put together | 22:22 |
| npm | that's the problem w/ UI code. | 22:22 |
| ali1234 | designing it maybe | 22:22 |
| ali1234 | reimplementing it from scratch wouldn't be that hard | 22:23 |
| hirabayashitaro | Hi, I was wondering why contact feature is not included in the core part of meego. It is not planned for all the adaptations (handset, netbook, etc)? | 22:23 |
| npm | yeah... if the code looks simple that's a testament to QML being the right tool for the job | 22:23 |
| ali1234 | heh, well, i wouldn't say it's exactly a testament to Qt | 22:23 |
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| thiago_home | Qt is just a tool | 22:23 |
| ali1234 | it would be half the size if it wasn't full of comment like "// ugly workaround for bug xxx" | 22:23 |
| thiago_home | and shortcomings are expected in the first version | 22:24 |
| thiago_home | intel's been developing with QML way before it was released at 1.0 | 22:24 |
| npm | thiago_home: agree -- QML is awesome | 22:24 |
| ali1234 | like i said before, QML reminds me a lot of early days of Html, where everything had to be tweaked by hand and hacks were used like fixed width container tables etc | 22:25 |
| npm | i should quit screwing around w/ the netbook and get back to writing some :-) | 22:25 |
| ali1234 | at least, that's the impression i get from the tablet UX code | 22:25 |
| * thiago_home doesn't like the fixed-width part, but the designers of QML seem to | 22:25 | |
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| npm | ali1234: the tablet ux code is the result of a deadline i'm sure... | 22:26 |
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| npm | if they open-source it we could easily rip out the fixed scaling and make it adaptive to display sizes | 22:26 |
| ali1234 | sure. when i said it was simple, i meant it was implemented in the quickest and dirtiest way possible | 22:26 |
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| npm | it's also that QML is new and we don't yet understand the "design patterns" it necessitates | 22:27 |
| ali1234 | npm: i actually attempted to do that, and had some success | 22:27 |
| npm | plus there' no obious "toolkit" of compoentns to use | 22:27 |
| ali1234 | in order to change the size of the panels on the main page i had to change the relative width of about 5 different sub components | 22:28 |
| ali1234 | there is no top level "scale everything by 50%" | 22:28 |
| npm | that's one of the reasons why i've been wanting the netbook ux alongside n900 for apps.. . so as to figure out how to make apps work on difft screen res/sizes | 22:28 |
| ali1234 | actually there is, but it doesn't work the way anyone would expect it to | 22:28 |
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| ali1234 | if you scale the panel by 50%, the distance between panels remains the same (because it is in a fixed width container) | 22:29 |
| ali1234 | but if you scale that container by 50%, then the panels get scaled to 25% | 22:29 |
| ali1234 | because they inherit both the parent container size and also the scaling of the parent | 22:29 |
| ali1234 | so you have to put in loads of really nasty hacks | 22:29 |
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| * gabrbedd was actually asking about the fixed size problem on #qt | 22:30 | |
| thiago_home | gabrbedd: there's a task about other units | 22:31 |
| thiago_home | like ems and cm | 22:31 |
| lcukn900 | thiago it is a shame there is no simple 'fill window' mode | 22:32 |
| thiago_home | fill with what? | 22:32 |
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| lcukn900 | content | 22:32 |
| ali1234 | lcukn900: there is, it fills the window by stretching everything in the UI | 22:32 |
| gabrbedd | lcukn900: Do you mean like `cat /dev/urandom > content.dat` ?? | 22:33 |
| ali1234 | but it doesn't quite work right because some bits are fixed size | 22:33 |
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| lcukn900 | yeah so why does that not work? | 22:33 |
| ali1234 | it more or less does | 22:33 |
| lcukn900 | ali then it is not dynastretching | 22:33 |
| gabrbedd | lcukn900: instead of using layouts, they're using alignment anchors. | 22:33 |
| ali1234 | what is dynastretching? is that like callanetics? | 22:33 |
| gabrbedd | lcukn900: ...and it more or less does the same thing. | 22:34 |
| npm | several decades ago, we had this thing called a "table widget" which would do all that quite nicely: http://nielsmayer.com/winterp/doc/Table.txt | 22:34 |
| npm | :-) | 22:34 |
| lcukn900 | lol | 22:34 |
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| lcukn900 | ali1234 component might request certain sizes but should be displayed as large as possible within the actual allocated space | 22:35 |
| ali1234 | lcukn900: even though you can only see two panels on the ideapad instead of the three you would see on the wetab, nothing is actually getting drawn outside the screen, and the UI is completely functional | 22:35 |
| lcukn900 | i know | 22:35 |
| ali1234 | and if you tell it to scale the entire UI by 50%, that works | 22:35 |
| ali1234 | you still see a little bit less than two panels, but in a window that fills 1/4 of the screen | 22:36 |
| ali1234 | this isn't a failing of QML, it's a failing of how the UI has been written | 22:36 |
| ali1234 | because it's a hacky demo, not a serious product | 22:36 |
| ali1234 | IMO :) | 22:36 |
| gabrbedd | thiago_home: how do I get the top-level QML element to "do the right thing" without me setting width/height manually? | 22:37 |
| ali1234 | and because it's a hacky demo... well, it wouldn't take someone long to make an equally hacky open source version | 22:37 |
| ali1234 | and that's just assuming they don't release the source, which they probably will | 22:37 |
| thiago_home | gabrbedd: I don't know | 22:37 |
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| gabrbedd | thiago_home: ok, thanks. | 22:38 |
| gabrbedd | thiago_home: I asked on #qt and somebody started a QML troll session. :-( | 22:38 |
| * thiago_home pays attention there | 22:39 | |
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| ali1234 | it wasn't me :) | 22:39 |
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| npm | IMHO, the problem is there needs to be a toplevel component that abstracts away screen size in pixels and has everything underneath work in "floating point" percentages | 22:46 |
| thiago_home | you don't want to do that | 22:46 |
| thiago_home | scaling is not the answer | 22:46 |
| thiago_home | it's also CPU intensive | 22:46 |
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| ali1234 | npm: it already does do that | 22:47 |
| npm | there needs to be an abstraction beyond pixels, esp if you're working "declaratively" | 22:47 |
| thiago_home | cm and other units are useful | 22:48 |
| ali1234 | if you set scale: 0.5 on the top level container it will draw the whole UI in 1/4 of the screen, therefore it is already resolution independent | 22:48 |
| thiago_home | expanding elements are also useful | 22:48 |
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| npm | part of the issue is also the need for actual "declarative programming" (aka backtracking in prolog) | 22:50 |
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| npm | in that constraints can propagate down from the top (e.g. screen size) and up from components (such as fixed images etc) | 22:50 |
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| npm | but it seems like most of the layout in QML is top-down, when it actually needs to be solving a constraint problem simultaneously from bottom up and top-down | 22:51 |
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| ali1234 | the thing is, this stuff is handled for you automatically if you use QWidgets. i would argue that by trying to simplify it too much, QML actually makes it harder to get this stuff right | 22:52 |
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| thiago_home | qwidget's layout system is incredibly complex | 23:32 |
| ali1234 | perhaps, but reimplementing it in QML is even worse | 23:33 |
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| ali1234 | it makes creating a QVerticalLayout and adding some widgets into it seem trivial | 23:34 |
| * javispedro finds gtk's "layouts"="widgets" concept easier to explain | 23:36 | |
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| * Stskeeps watches quim's talk at scale9x | 23:39 | |
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| gabrbedd | Stskeeps: live? or is it streaming? | 23:41 |
| Stskeeps | gabrbedd: streaming, i'm not in the US right now :) | 23:41 |
| gabrbedd | Stskeeps: url? | 23:41 |
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| Stskeeps | http://www.socallinuxexpo.org/scale9x/presentations/foundations-meego-project | 23:42 |
| gabrbedd | missile lock.... | 23:44 |
| gabrbedd | ON. | 23:44 |
| Stskeeps | oi | 23:44 |
| Stskeeps | that's not friendly :P | 23:44 |
| gabrbedd | ha! it may sound bad... but in the US that's actually friendly. It means "I'm dialed in and you have my undevided attention." | 23:45 |
| Stskeeps | to europeans it sounds like vietnam and iraq.. | 23:46 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 23:46 |
| Stskeeps | but yeah, cultures | 23:46 |
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| * gabrbedd makes mental note not to use military idioms around europeans. :-) | 23:50 | |
| gabrbedd | s/not/note/ | 23:50 |
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| gabrbedd | erm... stet. | 23:50 |
| gabrbedd | bah! | 23:50 |
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| gabrbedd | poor qgil... I knew that would be the first question. | 23:52 |
| javispedro | :P | 23:52 |
| javispedro | yeah. | 23:52 |
| * Jaffa opens stream now. What was it? "Why does Nokia suck?" | 23:53 | |
| Stskeeps | Jaffa: "will nokia's focus change in meego" or something | 23:53 |
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| Stskeeps | really the worst kind of question to get, especially since there's not too much info yet | 23:56 |
| javispedro | and there will never be... | 23:56 |
| Stskeeps | they just said they're working on a offical statement ;) | 23:57 |
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