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| billly123 | Hi, i could someone point me to documentation (architecture specific) related to Meego IVI system. I searched the wiki and found a couple of pages http://wiki.meego.com/Developer_Guide and http://wiki.meego.com/In-vehicle/IVI_for_users_and_developers . Are there any more links . Thank you. | 00:03 |
|---|---|---|
| Stskeeps | billly123: meego-ivi@ mailing list is active for this kind of discussion :) | 00:03 |
| Stskeeps | fastest way to get to who you need | 00:03 |
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| billly123 | ok. thanks. | 00:05 |
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| Stskeeps | i think #Meego-ivi might exist too | 00:05 |
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| billly123 | thanks . will check that out. | 00:07 |
| mwichmann_ | also try this one: http://wiki.meego.com/In-vehicle | 00:07 |
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| billly123 | more info there. thanks. | 00:10 |
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| vgrade | arfoll, https://build.pub.meego.com/package/view_file?file=emgd-bin.spec&package=emgd&project=home%3Avgrade&srcmd5=cb8a55d998524c5ed42dacc4cef1bd5b, I'm not sure how this maps onto the edc.intel.com releases | 00:59 |
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| vgrade | arfoll, version 1.5.1812 is reported in Xorg log | 01:11 |
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| timeless_w7ip | grr | 01:15 |
| timeless_w7ip | error: Package has no %description: kernel-adaptation-mrst | 01:15 |
| timeless_w7ip | oh brother | 01:17 |
| timeless_w7ip | this stupid system uses line configuration characters | 01:17 |
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| smoku | https://build.pub.meego.com/package/live_build_log?arch=i586&package=osso-af-settings&project=home%3Asmoku%3Amaego&repository=MeeGo_current_Core_standard - is it failing on rpmlint? how can I make it build? | 01:29 |
| auke | smoku: just fix the rpmlint error and make a -devel package that contains the .pc file | 01:30 |
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| smoku | auke, the point is that this package IS a .pc and nothing else | 01:31 |
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| smoku | it's a -settings package | 01:31 |
| auke | that doesn't make any sense | 01:31 |
| auke | make it a subpackage of what it belongs to? | 01:31 |
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| smoku | it does not belong to anything. it describes the system, so other packages can get info from it | 01:32 |
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| auke | hmm, I see | 01:33 |
| auke | that does sound highly unusual | 01:33 |
| smoku | Maemo is unusual ;-) | 01:34 |
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| auke | smoku: is it really a pkgconfig file or something else? | 01:37 |
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| smoku | yes. only the /usr/lib/pkgconfig/osso-af-settings.pc | 01:37 |
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| auke | smoku: my question was more in the line of, is that file actually a file parsable with pkgconfig, or is it just named/placed that way? | 01:51 |
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| vgrade | smoku, you could try a hammer, http://www.madeo.co.uk/?p=579 | 01:54 |
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| smoku | i renamed the package to osso-af-settings-devel and it's fine | 01:56 |
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| TSCHAKeee | damn wtf | 01:56 |
| smoku | and since i refer to it with pkgconfig(osso-af-settings) in other packages, I should be fine :) | 01:56 |
| TSCHAKeee | where did vgrade go? | 01:56 |
| vgrade | still here | 01:57 |
| TSCHAKeee | vgrade: have you or arfoll been able to use libva with the latest emgd? | 01:57 |
| smoku | vgrade, thanks for the link. bookmarked :) | 01:58 |
| vgrade | TSCHAKeee, arfoll did some work but said that xbmc build needed work so I did not progress this. In the meantime intel tablet surfaced which I ported to Joggler and then hildon-desktop from smoku. Not to mention tegra2 and panda. Not enough hours in the day | 02:01 |
| TSCHAKeee | ;) | 02:01 |
| vgrade | smoku, keep that bookmark for emergencies :) | 02:01 |
| TSCHAKeee | i am looking to get a Viewsonic-G.. worth it? or is there a better choice in the tegra camp? | 02:01 |
| vgrade | you US right? | 02:01 |
| TSCHAKeee | yes | 02:03 |
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| vgrade | igo on #meego-arm is working the LG Optimus | 02:04 |
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| vgrade | TSCHAKeee, I've still not seen any info on updated accelerated drivers comming out of nvidia so that will limit any tegra non-android ports | 02:08 |
| TSCHAKeee | :'( | 02:09 |
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| TSCHAKeee | oh well, I can still do my android orbiter porting work with it and my Nokia N900 on NITDroid | 02:09 |
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| TSCHAKeee | but seriously, wtf? :( | 02:09 |
| TSCHAKeee | I thought there were accelerated GPU drivers in linux for tegra. | 02:09 |
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| ShadowJK | I saw a tegra netbook in the shop last week, I'd probably gotten one if it wasn't for the lack of drivers | 02:14 |
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| TSCHAKeee | what is that new motorola handset/netbook hybrid running on? | 02:24 |
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| wmarone | TSCHAKeee: CPU? Tegra 2 | 02:25 |
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| wmarone | and there are drivers, but they're for an older version of Xorg than what is in MeeGo | 02:26 |
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| vgrade | TSCHAKeee, Xorg 1.6 for the latest nvidia linux4tegra release | 02:35 |
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| vgrade | also don't assume because a device is running accelerated under android you can use the drivers, you can't | 02:36 |
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| TSCHAKeee | vgrade: oh no, I know you can't. | 02:42 |
| TSCHAKeee | Android doesn't use X | 02:42 |
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| vgrade | TSCAHKeee, it does amuse me when Google get all high and mighty about the evil apple but are playing the same 'lock you in' games | 02:54 |
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| vgrade | TSCHKeee, you might want to check out ExoPC, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BW_7uvIJ_o, intel based so no driver issues | 02:59 |
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| TSCHAKeee | vgrade: yeah, it amuses me too.... I've been looking for the exoPC, but not sure where I can get the damned thing. | 03:22 |
| TSCHAKeee | but from all accounts, it looks like a pinetrail without a keyboard | 03:22 |
| TSCHAKeee | which...how's the battery life on the thing? | 03:22 |
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| TSCHAKeee | vgrade: arfoll: do either of you have a recent .ks for an Archos9? | 03:48 |
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| ngharo | anyway to reclaim my ALT key back | 04:19 |
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| ngharo | alt+left arrow for instance to go back in a browser | 04:20 |
| ngharo | cept it keeps flipping virtual terms when i do it | 04:20 |
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| ngharo | could this because X is running on vt2? | 04:20 |
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| raster | mew | 04:36 |
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| gabrbedd | how do you make the forum show more than 4 posts at a time? | 05:01 |
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| dan707 | evening;. | 06:20 |
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| npm | bahahahaha http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-12554499 | 07:25 |
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| AgentBlair | still bitter about the nokia-wp7 deal? | 07:31 |
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| iekku__ | morning | 07:52 |
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| Alison_Chaiken | AgentBlair, I don't know who you're addressing, but I for one am not bitter. Companies do what they have to do, and employees make their own decisions in response. | 07:53 |
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| Alison_Chaiken | Hmm, I guess that's *whom* you're addressing. (Should study English grammar instead of suomi.) | 07:54 |
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| iekku | Alison_Chaiken, you are correct with the attitude, bitter just spoils so much, it's useless | 07:55 |
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| AgentBlair | i was addressing nbm | 07:56 |
| AgentBlair | npm* | 07:57 |
| Stskeeps | morn | 08:00 |
| Alison_Chaiken | iekku, the world abounds with opportunity. Look not to the disappointing past but to the bright and boundless future! I want giant OLED lighting panels to replace lamps! I want all walls everywhere to be displays! A watch will all the functionality of my cell phone! And natch, flying cars. | 08:00 |
| Stskeeps | Alison_Chaiken: 'a day made of glass' on youtube is where i hope to take meego | 08:01 |
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| iekku | Alison_Chaiken, :D | 08:01 |
| iekku | Stskeeps, good morning | 08:02 |
| Stskeeps | morn iekku | 08:02 |
| iekku | it feels sooooooooo good to be at work | 08:03 |
| Stskeeps | i'm just happy to be checking out of my hotel room. looking forward to be home at my sofa :P | 08:04 |
| iekku | Stskeeps, sofa is nice place :) and waits you when you'r not at home :P | 08:04 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 08:05 |
| iekku | you don't need to feed sofa, or take it out etc | 08:06 |
| iekku | nice pet | 08:06 |
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| Alison_Chaiken | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Cf7IL_eZ38 I wonder if the popcorn, apple and people were all made of glass too. But seriously, Stskeeps, I've seen a dozen of those "10 years into the future" videos and that's the best one so far. | 08:08 |
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| Stskeeps | Alison_Chaiken: yeah, last one that topped my list was a MS one.. | 08:11 |
| Stskeeps | Alison_Chaiken: transparent amoled exists already, samsung had some demos | 08:12 |
| jrayhawk | I'm surprised they didn't to LCD fabric in that, too. | 08:12 |
| jrayhawk | didn't do | 08:12 |
| Alison_Chaiken | Overhead OLED lighting panels are inevitable. They have high enough BW to send data at MHz rates. ECMA already has a lighting comms standard. | 08:13 |
| gabrbedd | Ha, that's a pretty cool vide. The problem is that displays on horizontal table-tops and vertical walls are ergonomically bad. | 08:13 |
| iekku | Stskeeps, wow, that's nice video | 08:13 |
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| Stskeeps | now, how do we make it happen with meego? a open, free and easy to adapt to hardware solution is needed ;) | 08:16 |
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| Stskeeps | ok, that is a really irritating n900 bug.. | 08:29 |
| Stskeeps | i see the window for alarm pop up, before sound starts, i hit cancel | 08:29 |
| Stskeeps | and it closed window, sound continues to play | 08:29 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 08:30 |
| Stskeeps | (ie, no way to stop alarm) | 08:30 |
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| npm | getting spoiled by the touchscreen and the chrome-touch plugin ... i need to quit trying to scroll text on my regular display with my finger | 08:38 |
| iekku | Stskeeps, uh | 08:39 |
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| Sicelo | hi guys :) | 10:05 |
| Sicelo | newbie question here: does meego run on the Nokia 3G tablet? | 10:05 |
| thiago_home | the Booklet? | 10:05 |
| thiago_home | it can run, but why would you try? :-P | 10:06 |
| Sicelo | ok. thanks | 10:06 |
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| Wellark^ | Sicelo: Nokia Booklet 3G has Intel GMA500 graphics which is not supported by MeeGo (or anything for that matter) | 10:13 |
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| Bostik | hmm, a (flaky?) 2D driver for GMA500 was just put up on LKML for merging | 10:15 |
| Bostik | just a minute, I'll hunt down the thread start | 10:16 |
| Bostik | http://marc.info/?l=linux-kernel&m=129837844627413&w=2 | 10:17 |
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| Wellark^ | Bostik: cool, I didn't notice that | 10:23 |
| Bostik | it needs quite a lot of love still before it can go in but at least there finally IS a stable-ish starting point for future work | 10:23 |
| Wellark^ | "you have 73327 unread messages at LKML" <-- mybe that has something to do with it XD | 10:23 |
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| Sicelo | nice discussion... interesting. i did read sometime ago about the GMA500 | 10:24 |
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| timeless_w7ip | so err | 11:30 |
| * timeless_w7ip puzzles | 11:30 | |
| timeless_w7ip | can someone here help me understand srpms? | 11:30 |
| timeless_w7ip | i vaguely understand the .spec file | 11:30 |
| timeless_w7ip | but i'm wondering about .yaml files | 11:30 |
| timeless_w7ip | of 1434 packages, 670 seem to have yaml files | 11:31 |
| Reffy | Hey vgrade | 11:31 |
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| arfoll | timeless_w7ip, yaml files create spec files using the spectacle tool | 11:31 |
| timeless_w7ip | arfoll: ok,... | 11:31 |
| arfoll | you don't need the yaml files (because OBS only understands specs), but it's usually nicer to write spec files | 11:31 |
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| arfoll | to write yaml files I mean | 11:32 |
| timeless_w7ip | if i have a srpm and it has a spec and a yaml | 11:32 |
| timeless_w7ip | and i use rpmbuild -bp am i guaranteed to get the yaml in the BUILD/whatever dir? | 11:32 |
| timeless_w7ip | or is it possible/likely for the yaml to more or less get lost? | 11:33 |
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| arfoll | no, rpmbuild doesn't know about yaml so it will ignore it | 11:33 |
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| timeless_w7ip | so it'll be lost? joy | 11:33 |
| divan | Does anyone knows Qt app for maemo with translations/localization? | 11:33 |
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| arfoll | I'm not too sure if it'll be lost, but rpmbuild wont know what to do with it | 11:33 |
| divan | sorry wrong window | 11:33 |
| timeless_w7ip | arfoll: so the goal here is to make mxr.meego.com/repo.meego.com/source/ the most useful resource it can be | 11:34 |
| timeless_w7ip | since a yaml file would indirectly contribute to the behavior of the package and since it was in the srpm to begin with, it really should be in the directory that's listed | 11:34 |
| timeless_w7ip | just as i'd like to include the spec file | 11:34 |
| timeless_w7ip | (the spec file is naturally lost also since it would land in SPECS/ on its own) | 11:35 |
| arfoll | yes, i agree, the yaml file would be nice as well as the spec (because yaml may not describe the spec fully - see spec macros) | 11:35 |
| arfoll | i'd guess the yaml file wouldn't be treated specially by rpmbuild so i'm not sure where it would put it | 11:36 |
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| arfoll | why dont you try? | 11:36 |
| timeless_w7ip | well, i've tried it kinda | 11:37 |
| timeless_w7ip | and it seems to sometimes appear | 11:37 |
| arfoll | problem is, in BUILD/ you get the content of whatever is in the source: part of the spec no? | 11:38 |
| arfoll | and the yaml will not be there | 11:38 |
| timeless_w7ip | hrm, no, the yaml doesn't appear does it | 11:38 |
| timeless_w7ip | http://mxr.meego.com/meego.gitorious.org/source/libresource/ e.g. is missing the yaml file | 11:39 |
| timeless_w7ip | whereas there is a yaml file for it | 11:39 |
| arfoll | can you not treat the yaml file specially if it exists? (just like you have to treat the spec file specially) | 11:39 |
| timeless_w7ip | that's what i'm trying to understand | 11:40 |
| timeless_w7ip | oh oops, i'm looking in the wrong tree | 11:40 |
| * timeless_w7ip sighs | 11:40 | |
| timeless_w7ip | sorry, http://mxr.meego.com/repo.meego.com/source/ is the place we're talking about | 11:41 |
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| timeless_w7ip | the other one is git based which isn't relevant | 11:41 |
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| timeless_w7ip | (well, it is to the extent that i might want to teach mxr itself to parse yaml files to get directory descriptions the way it can for .spec files, but... that's a battle for another time) | 11:41 |
| timeless_w7ip | ok, so http://mxr.meego.com/repo.meego.com/source/kickstarter-0.4/ has a couple of yaml's | 11:42 |
| timeless_w7ip | but they aren't the yaml's we're talking about here | 11:43 |
| arfoll | timeless_w7ip, i see alot of the spec files are missing, see brassero | 11:43 |
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| timeless_w7ip | yeah, the spec files aren't currently being magically added in that version | 11:43 |
| timeless_w7ip | there's another improved version of the script where they will be | 11:43 |
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| timeless_w7ip | it's halfway between a run where it wasn't and a run where it would | 11:44 |
| arfoll | and what happens to patches? Are they simply applied being applied to the tarball or are they not shown either? | 11:44 |
| timeless_w7ip | simply applied | 11:44 |
| timeless_w7ip | the goal is to reference the result of rpmbuild -bp | 11:44 |
| arfoll | ok, btw i think the reason those yaml files are there is that they are in the .tarball | 11:44 |
| timeless_w7ip | which is roughly how someone looking at a crash stack would need them | 11:44 |
| timeless_w7ip | if you think the patches and other meta junk should be preserved/exposed in some other way | 11:45 |
| timeless_w7ip | i'm open to suggestions | 11:45 |
| timeless_w7ip | but note that i don't want to keep around the .tar.gz or whatevers | 11:45 |
| arfoll | no it seems like an ok way to deal with it | 11:45 |
| timeless_w7ip | ok | 11:45 |
| arfoll | i dont see how you are going to get away from treating the yaml specifically | 11:45 |
| timeless_w7ip | so consider http://mxr.meego.com/repo.meego.com/source/tone-generator-1.5/ | 11:45 |
| timeless_w7ip | yeah, i'm fine w/ special casing the yaml's and spec files | 11:46 |
| timeless_w7ip | that's not too annoying | 11:46 |
| timeless_w7ip | consider tone geenrator though... | 11:46 |
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| timeless_w7ip | it has a yaml | 11:46 |
| arfoll | yeah that one looks good | 11:46 |
| timeless_w7ip | and! its yaml is +x | 11:46 |
| timeless_w7ip | wtf is it +x? | 11:46 |
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| arfoll | but maybe the yaml creeped in the tarball.... | 11:46 |
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| arfoll | timeless_w7ip, yep spec + yaml are in that tarball | 11:47 |
| arfoll | bug should probably be filed | 11:47 |
| timeless_w7ip | can i get you to file it? | 11:47 |
| arfoll | timeless_w7ip, yes sure | 11:47 |
| timeless_w7ip | thanks | 11:47 |
| timeless_w7ip | clearly i can't cite chapter+verse on that yet.. | 11:47 |
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| arfoll | timeless_w7ip, btw maybe you could spit out a list of packages with the yaml files inside so we can check if there are more ugly packages? | 11:48 |
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| timeless_w7ip | normally you'd be able to use mxr's find | 11:49 |
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| timeless_w7ip | but since there's no find index, lemme pastebin a list | 11:49 |
| timeless_w7ip | http://pastebin.mozilla.org/1094418 | 11:49 |
| timeless_w7ip | i presume that the repos/configurations yamls are acceptable | 11:50 |
| arfoll | yes i'd guess those are | 11:50 |
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| arfoll | cheers for the pastie | 11:50 |
| arfoll | i guess it's because the yaml files are in the git repo so when the tarball is made it's left here | 11:50 |
| arfoll | s/here/there | 11:50 |
| * timeless_w7ip nods | 11:51 | |
| timeless_w7ip | if you can write a rule describing what files should not be found in the root of one of these directories, i can make my script evaluate it as it builds and spit out the list to a file which it adds to the tree | 11:52 |
| timeless_w7ip | (don't give me the rule now, i have enough headaches to deal w/) | 11:52 |
| arfoll | timeless_w7ip, hard to make a rule though as some yaml files should be there, I think it's best to try and get to them one by one. It's not particularly major either | 11:53 |
| * timeless_w7ip nods | 11:53 | |
| timeless_w7ip | it's a general offer though, not necessarily specific to yaml's | 11:54 |
| timeless_w7ip | since mxr will have to process all srpms that go into repo.meego.com, and will hopefully be a place people visit, | 11:54 |
| arfoll | uhm, it could be very useful, i'll keep it in mind :-) | 11:55 |
| timeless_w7ip | any general complaints about packages which could be calculated automatically could be generated | 11:55 |
| * timeless_w7ip goes back to getting the yaml's into the list | 11:55 | |
| timeless_w7ip | grr | 11:56 |
| * timeless_w7ip kicks 'platform' | 11:56 | |
| * andre__ wonders what the "ip" stands for in timeless' nick | 11:57 | |
| timeless_w7ip | ideapad | 11:57 |
| timeless_w7ip | from dublin :) | 11:57 |
| andre__ | ah :) | 11:58 |
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| timeless_w7ip | which partially explains why this connection dies... the computer goes to sleep! | 11:58 |
| * arfoll hopes the w7 isn't because timeless hasn't put meego on it ;-) | 11:58 | |
| timeless_w7ip | arfoll: guilty :) | 11:58 |
| timeless_w7ip | w7 is kinda annoying, when i upgraded virtualbox to some version @work, my w7s started going to sleep too | 11:59 |
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| timeless_w7ip | because vbox was like "yeah, i support sleeping", and windows was like "great, i'm tired, i'm going to sleep" | 11:59 |
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| * timeless_w7ip hasn't tried to find the checkbox to tell windows "please don't go to sleep" ... | 12:00 | |
| timeless_w7ip | so, eventually the directories in repo.meego.com will look closer to: | 12:01 |
| timeless_w7ip | http://mxr.meego.com/stage-repo.meego.com/source/ | 12:01 |
| * timeless_w7ip grumbles @ the first line of http://mxr.meego.com/stage-repo.meego.com/source/perl-HTML-Tree/ | 12:01 | |
| lcuk | timeless_w7ip, when it sleeps in windows, does it also disable usb ports | 12:01 |
| timeless_w7ip | lcuk: hrm, you mean how would the n900 interact w/ this sleeping ip? | 12:01 |
| timeless_w7ip | definitely possible to investigate | 12:02 |
| timeless_w7ip | http://mxr.meego.com/stage-repo.meego.com/source/perl-HTML-Tree/META.yml | 12:02 |
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| timeless_w7ip | is that a proto yaml? | 12:02 |
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| timeless_w7ip | hrm, nope, seems to be yet-another-module-list | 12:03 |
| lcuk | its the most annoying part of laptop sleep cycles - because you cannot close lid and carry on charging n900 | 12:03 |
| timeless_w7ip | heh | 12:03 |
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| timeless_w7ip | w/ this you can flip the lid :) | 12:04 |
| * timeless_w7ip adds lookign for 'abstract' in 'yml' to the todo list | 12:04 | |
| timeless_w7ip | ooh, or 'ABSTRACT' in Makefile.PL | 12:05 |
| timeless_w7ip | that might work better | 12:05 |
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| lcuk2 | timeless_w7ip, you mean flip into slate mode? | 12:06 |
| timeless_w7ip | yeah | 12:06 |
| lcuk2 | if so - that causes havok when you slide it into bag | 12:06 |
| slaine | Anyone using those IdeaPads with an Apple Airport Extreme wifi basestation ? | 12:06 |
| timeless_w7ip | lcuk: win-L first :) | 12:06 |
| timeless_w7ip | (works best if you have a password requirement) | 12:07 |
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| lcuk2 | reasonable enough :) ta | 12:07 |
| timeless_w7ip | win-L = lock screen in NT5, in NT5.1+ it's fast user switching if you aren't in a domain or lock screen otherwise | 12:07 |
| lcuk2 | ctrlalt+l works too :) | 12:08 |
| timeless_w7ip | not here | 12:08 |
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| peerDseer | hi | 12:10 |
| lcuk2 | hi \o | 12:10 |
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| slaine | Actually, is there a switch in the ideapad that disables wifi | 12:13 |
| slaine | Wondering if that's my problem | 12:13 |
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| slaine | Is valhalla leaving Nokia ? | 12:13 |
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| arfoll | timeless_w7ip, done: https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13826 | 12:19 |
| MeeGoBot | Bug 13826 tri, Undecided, ---, peter.j.zhu, NEW, yaml files in some release tarballs. Should they be there? | 12:19 |
| arfoll | although i doubt anyone is going to care much | 12:19 |
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| * timeless_w7ip nods | 12:21 | |
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| timeless_w7ip | technically that isn't really a complete list, that's only a list of the packages for which my rpmbuild hadn't failed | 12:22 |
| timeless_w7ip | there are hrm | 12:22 |
| timeless_w7ip | say 1340 directories in that list, and 1436 or so srpms | 12:23 |
| timeless_w7ip | so there are roughly 100 packages for which i can't speak ... | 12:23 |
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| timeless_w7ip | hrm | 12:31 |
| * timeless_w7ip wonders how acls work on this system | 12:31 | |
| slaine | reset the bios to factory decaults works | 12:31 |
| slaine | defaults | 12:31 |
| arfoll | timeless_w7ip, before we know what the overlords are willing to do about it it's fairly irrelevant if the list is incomplete | 12:34 |
| timeless_w7ip | grr | 12:35 |
| * timeless_w7ip kicks debian | 12:36 | |
| timeless_w7ip | "time" isn't included | 12:36 |
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| * timeless_w7ip has a patch for that on another computer | 12:36 | |
| jumpula | Package: time | 12:37 |
| jumpula | Priority: standard | 12:37 |
| jumpula | not essential, though | 12:37 |
| timeless_w7ip | jumpula: yeah, i went through this about 2 weeks ago w/ someone else | 12:37 |
| timeless_w7ip | so it's already fixed on my primary staging computer, but it isn't fixed in my upstream where everyone gets sources | 12:37 |
| timeless_w7ip | 633410-update-search-missing-time | 12:38 |
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| timeless_w7ip | oh, actually, it's only partially fixed, i think | 12:40 |
| * timeless_w7ip got distracted and probably never finished it | 12:40 | |
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| timeless_w7ip | grr | 12:41 |
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| timeless_w7ip | jumpula: right, so from memory the really fun part about that was that 'which' wasn't from memory portable across unix's | 12:44 |
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| timeless_w7ip | and about the worst command to try to google for is 'which' | 12:45 |
| jumpula | you're probably using the shell internal time instead of the real time command | 12:46 |
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| jumpula | so running something like /usr/bin/time gets you the real time command which supports all the options in the man page etc | 12:46 |
| timeless_w7ip | well, the original version was a shell script and thus it got the internal time | 12:46 |
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| timeless_w7ip | the current version is perl and thus it's at the mercy of the existence of /usr/bin/time | 12:47 |
| timeless_w7ip | which doesn't exist on debian unless you install time | 12:47 |
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| jumpula | sounds reasonable, yes :) | 12:49 |
| jumpula | you can always run shell from perl and run time there | 12:49 |
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| jumpula | but i'd reckon perl has some better (internal) way of doing this | 12:49 |
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| timeless_w7ip | so, the question is,... can i safely rely on shells to provide all of the things that i need | 12:50 |
| timeless_w7ip | or should i look before i leap and gracefully handle missing things | 12:50 |
| timeless_w7ip | e.g. potentially 'uptime' could decide not to be presnet | 12:51 |
| timeless_w7ip | s/presnet/present/ | 12:51 |
| infobot | timeless_w7ip meant: e.g. potentially 'uptime' could decide not to be present | 12:51 |
| timeless_w7ip | and 'date' | 12:51 |
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| lcuk2 | timeless_w7ip, since you can resolve most of the missing pieces, it sounds more like a niggle | 12:52 |
| lcuk2 | and something to get used to | 12:52 |
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| timeless_w7ip | 'niggle'? | 12:52 |
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| lcuk2 | car analogy, having niggles with the car might mean a squeeking noise or wipers broke, but the car still runs. | 12:54 |
| * timeless_w7ip doesn't have a license let alone a car | 12:54 | |
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| lcuk2 | have you ever tried to learn? | 12:54 |
| timeless_w7ip | yes, i've had learners' permits | 12:54 |
| timeless_w7ip | just never bothered getting a license | 12:55 |
| timeless_w7ip | anyway | 12:55 |
| timeless_w7ip | right, the point is that i want my code to be able to work when these things are absent, it's just a matter of deciding how the code should work around the missing cog | 12:55 |
| timeless_w7ip | i'm not specifically complaining about the missing cog, just having trouble deciding the right way to handle it | 12:55 |
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| lcuk2 | timeless_w7ip, are you actively packaging this collection of scripts up? | 12:58 |
| lcuk2 | ie, can you just add dependencies and let the operator (you or other) install the missing dependencies as required | 12:59 |
| timeless_w7ip | no | 12:59 |
| timeless_w7ip | i'm not going to waste years writing hundreds of packaging scripts | 12:59 |
| timeless_w7ip | and i'm not going to waste years supporting people who installed distro hacked versions of my code | 13:00 |
| timeless_w7ip | nor am i going to spend hundreds of hours calculating all of the possible ways to spell a package name | 13:00 |
| timeless_w7ip | packaging is not the answer. it's just twenty more problems i don't need | 13:00 |
| timeless_w7ip | [hint: don't go there] | 13:00 |
| ali1234 | +1 | 13:01 |
| timeless_w7ip | anyway, jbos: i've finally gotten the update-search.pl version of that problem handled. | 13:02 |
| timeless_w7ip | i'll deal w/ porting/refactoring it later or perhaps sooner | 13:02 |
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| lcuk2 | reasonable timeless_w7ip | 13:06 |
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| * timeless_w7ip goes w/ sooner and finishes it | 13:31 | |
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| timeless_w7ip | ok, so that problem's done. back to whereever i was before? | 13:31 |
| timeless_w7ip | for people vaguely wondering what mxr.meego.com will be able to do once it has working indices, http://mxr.meego.com/mxr/ demos find/search/ident | 13:32 |
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| KevinB | Hi meego hackers | 13:33 |
| * timeless_w7ip chuckles | 13:33 | |
| lcuk2 | timeless_w7ip, you mention on the info page about web crawlers, are the pages correctly marked in robot file? | 13:33 |
| lcuk2 | to prevent some at least | 13:33 |
| timeless_w7ip | lcuk: please feel free to check | 13:33 |
| KevinB | Don't you think opensource platform blocks commercials opportunity profit? | 13:34 |
| * timeless_w7ip wonders if comic chat is smart enough to map 'hi' to hand wave | 13:34 | |
| Stskeeps | KevinB: no, go look at licensing policy at meego.com :) | 13:34 |
| lcuk2 | indeed timeless_w7ip :) | 13:34 |
| KevinB | because it s kinda easy for a hacker like you | 13:34 |
| timeless_w7ip | (it did that for kevinb's hi) | 13:34 |
| niala1 | hi, bon apétit | 13:35 |
| KevinB | merci :) | 13:35 |
| Mirv | http://cannedbypasi.blogspot.com/2011/02/meego-qt-alive-and-kicking.html | 13:35 |
| KevinB | I mean for hackers , a meego platform is like heaven of hacking | 13:36 |
| KevinB | anyway, it didnt stop ihpone app to be sold | 13:36 |
| KevinB | so I guess it would be the same for meego | 13:36 |
| KevinB | We just need to Democratise Meego | 13:36 |
| Stskeeps | democracy? dear god no | 13:36 |
| KevinB | Install it on every Desktop we will see | 13:36 |
| lainwir3d | omg, no | 13:37 |
| timeless_w7ip | kevinb: i think you need to look at world politics a bit right now | 13:37 |
| timeless_w7ip | a couple case studies: | 13:37 |
| timeless_w7ip | 1. the middle east | 13:37 |
| KevinB | what's wrong with that | 13:37 |
| timeless_w7ip | where the masses are um... well, not particularly interested in any particular things but are happy to be killed | 13:37 |
| timeless_w7ip | 2. the middle west | 13:37 |
| KevinB | (I mean by "Democratise" to make it popular") | 13:38 |
| timeless_w7ip | ... where um people for some reason seem to support asking for a smaller government so that they won't get the money they need to live | 13:38 |
| timeless_w7ip | i think you want another word | 13:38 |
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| KevinB | Demos -> people , crate -> governing | 13:40 |
| timeless_w7ip | yes, i don't see 'popular' in that | 13:40 |
| KevinB | popular -> people | 13:41 |
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| KevinB | anyway you get what I meant | 13:41 |
| timeless_w7ip | so, as everyone immediately panic'd when you made your suggestion | 13:41 |
| timeless_w7ip | ... | 13:41 |
| timeless_w7ip | the word you want is ... http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/popularize | 13:42 |
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| timeless_w7ip | but, it isn't a good idea to try to make something popular before it's ready | 13:42 |
| timeless_w7ip | i'm sure there are some good examples of how that fails | 13:42 |
| timeless_w7ip | <hindenburg> ? | 13:42 |
| timeless_w7ip | <titanic> ? | 13:43 |
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| KevinB | mmm to make it popular, we need that people commit to its further devlopment - in other word everyone can suggest smth and if it s good we take it | 13:43 |
| KevinB | isnt it what open source is? A democracy | 13:43 |
| timeless_w7ip | we haven't had many major air disasters of late. sure there was a concord and some other french plane off SAm, and a couple of space shuttles... | 13:43 |
| Stskeeps | no, it's open source | 13:43 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 13:44 |
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| timeless_w7ip | most things tend to work better w/ meritocracy than w/ democracy | 13:44 |
| timeless_w7ip | you might try reading Lord of the Flies | 13:44 |
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| KevinB | what the hell are you talking about | 13:45 |
| KevinB | The most your work get result, the most what..? | 13:45 |
| timeless_w7ip | heck, one could claim that germany circa 1933 was a democracy | 13:45 |
| timeless_w7ip | but if people don't actually know enough (e.g. who torched the Reichstag) | 13:46 |
| KevinB | ok is it meego channel? | 13:46 |
| timeless_w7ip | then it's easy to vote for the wrong thing, leading to disastrous consequences | 13:46 |
| timeless_w7ip | there's also Iran circa 1979 | 13:47 |
| KevinB | anyway I m just a young noob, wondering if hee makes an app on meego and release it commercial and make 1 € per sell... | 13:47 |
| Stskeeps | KevinB: meego does not in any way stop commercial usage or commercial applications. | 13:48 |
| KevinB | or if release it open source will block the market on a side, because it s good app so no one would want to buy the other ones | 13:48 |
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| Stskeeps | http://meego.com/about/licensing-policy | 13:48 |
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| timeless_w7ip | i believe the general assumption is that eventually vendors will provide stores through which users can procure apps | 13:48 |
| timeless_w7ip | and since users like being able to ask for support, and part of selling is offering support | 13:48 |
| timeless_w7ip | users can choose to go for a commercial solution, just for support | 13:49 |
| * niala1 read timeless_w7ip and KevinB and think there is misunderstand with "Democratise" word. I think a false traduction french/english | 13:49 | |
| timeless_w7ip | i'll note that even people here have indicated to me at times that they want to pay for support and will do that buy e.g. buying a license for something which could be retrieved for free | 13:49 |
| timeless_w7ip | niala1: "translation" in en :), but thanks | 13:50 |
| KevinB | niala1 it is indeed thogh I dont think the english definition of democratize is far from "démocratiser" | 13:50 |
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| timeless_w7ip | kevinb: even if the historical origins are close, the modern meanings are sufficiently distinct and the connotations significant such that interchanging them is problematic | 13:51 |
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| KevinB | I'll ask an english oxford guy when I'll go to Oxford, one day | 13:52 |
| timeless_w7ip | oed is available online for free this year iirc | 13:52 |
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| KevinB | I just think all basic app, couldnt go commercial | 13:53 |
| timeless_w7ip | of course, finding the stupid password is expensive | 13:53 |
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| KevinB | maybe I over - emphasize, just feel weird if I'm user that there are 2 simple and god app (like transport app) | 13:53 |
| timeless_w7ip | s/god/good/ ? | 13:54 |
| KevinB | good app and that onee is free and the other is not... OR even open-source should not be free | 13:55 |
| * timeless_w7ip sighs | 13:55 | |
| timeless_w7ip | niala: can you get a better translation for us? | 13:56 |
| KevinB | ok it s not clear | 13:56 |
| timeless_w7ip | [libre is terribly confusing when converted to en] | 13:56 |
| niala1 | me démocratiser = populaire = popular = communal. but my english is very bad. | 13:57 |
| niala1 | kevinB say free/gpl to be more predise | 13:57 |
| KevinB | To sum up : I'm considering open-source app should not be free on meego | 13:57 |
| niala1 | precise | 13:57 |
| niala1 | or opensource yes | 13:57 |
| KevinB | if it s free, i m just afraid it may break competition between app | 13:58 |
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| niala1 | or free = gratuit = gratuitous | 13:58 |
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| KevinB | because open source is sometimes better than commercials | 13:59 |
| KevinB | so it 's 0€ price.. | 13:59 |
| KevinB | just a thought | 13:59 |
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| timeless_w7ip | niala: i don't suppose there's a #meego-fr? | 13:59 |
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| niala1 | ah well i don't know i m here to train my english too :) | 14:00 |
| timeless_w7ip | niala: i'll gladly help you (e.g. 'translation'), but there's a limit to my ability to handle broken en | 14:01 |
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| timeless_w7ip | i'm not asking you to leave, just wondering if you could possibly work through the other question in French somewhere else | 14:01 |
| * KevinB is not in strict ENGLISh mode and is sorry for your brain compiler | 14:01 | |
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| niala1 | no pb i just reading and google translate. As you see i m not speaking a lot . :) | 14:02 |
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| niala1 | KevinB: ask in french in pv if you want. | 14:03 |
| KevinB | If there s two app the serves the same purpose. One is open-source (means ususally not bad one and most of the time free(=0€)) | 14:04 |
| KevinB | I'm afraid it would brake competition and so people never buy the commercial one | 14:05 |
| lcuk2 | KevinB, if that were true (lower price always) then people would not buy Ferraris | 14:05 |
| timeless_w7ip | kevinb, fwiw, s/brake/break/ | 14:06 |
| timeless_w7ip | lcuk: do they come w/ brakes? | 14:06 |
| timeless_w7ip | grr, i missed lunch! | 14:06 |
| niala1 | KevinB: yes and instead of selling closed software you sell you and your brain, in free/gpl woe | 14:07 |
| niala1 | world | 14:07 |
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| lcuk2 | timeless_w7ip, I overlooked the spelling. Go and grab lunch now! | 14:07 |
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| KevinB | Whereas if open source app are sold at leeast for a symoblic euro, it would get things like more equal | 14:08 |
| KevinB | then even comm. app have more chance? | 14:08 |
| KevinB | Is my argument stupid? | 14:08 |
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| timeless_w7ip | http://mxr.meego.com/meego.gitorious.org/source/kernel-source/obs_dont_care.txt <- funny file | 14:08 |
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| lcuk2 | KevinB, is that the only potential way to do it? | 14:09 |
| * lcuk2 has spent time considering how to do this for years | 14:09 | |
| KevinB | just an idea | 14:10 |
| KevinB | to make meego an attractive platform | 14:10 |
| lcuk2 | KevinB, if you write a tiny HTML page or something on the wiki that ends up being used by everyone | 14:10 |
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| lcuk2 | its not going to be questioned about open source or anything | 14:11 |
| lcuk2 | cos its just a silly page | 14:11 |
| KevinB | and the one 1€ would go to an juridic entity that could use reuse it for opensource | 14:11 |
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| KevinB | lcuk2, sorry I dont get extacly the meaning? | 14:11 |
| lcuk2 | well KevinB, you are talking specifically about apps | 14:12 |
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| lcuk2 | but there are so many component pieces around that are not necessarily apps, but that people have been involved in and helped to fixup | 14:12 |
| KevinB | yes, because I keep thinking about, how Meego can be attractive to the (Profit developper) | 14:13 |
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| niala1 | there is 'store' for that | 14:13 |
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| niala1 | iphone-store like ... ovistore and intelstore (don't remember the exact name of intel store) | 14:14 |
| * lcuk2 smiles when I noticesomeone fixed typos in the documentation (for instance) or wroteup a howto | 14:14 | |
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| mbatle` | niala1, AppUp ? | 14:14 |
| niala1 | yep | 14:15 |
| niala1 | ty | 14:15 |
| KevinB | a store on closed-platform is more powerfull dont you think so? On open-source platform like Meego people would nt go though store when we ll understand how to get the apps for free | 14:15 |
| KevinB | I mean when the customers will know how to install app by themselves | 14:16 |
| pexi | os apps quality is generally quite bad | 14:16 |
| lcuk2 | KevinB, I expect that most users of the OS would loath having to goto console to install stuff | 14:16 |
| niala1 | KevinB: and a gplworld is not nice? | 14:16 |
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| pexi | terrible ux and 'features' | 14:16 |
| lcuk2 | I cannot see my dad pecking through ancient runes | 14:16 |
| lcuk2 | well, perhaps actually, but thats not the point. | 14:17 |
| arfoll | KevinB, problem with charging for opensource is that who gets the money? | 14:17 |
| KevinB | lcuk2: ok for the console, what when there s just need to click on a deb in fileManager | 14:17 |
| KevinB | Who gets the money need to be a public entity with an object(=purpose) | 14:18 |
| KevinB | An association of developper building the soft | 14:18 |
| KevinB | Juridic public entity | 14:18 |
| niala1 | hardware have the money at least... | 14:18 |
| arfoll | KevinB, you're french aren't you? | 14:18 |
| KevinB | :) yes ,what? | 14:18 |
| bunk | KevinB: Android Market is an example of a working market for an open-source platform | 14:18 |
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| KevinB | bunk : 1 point, does ppl really buy app on Android | 14:19 |
| niala1 | semi open-source.. | 14:19 |
| arfoll | KevinB, il y a que les francais pour vouloir une assoc pour 3 pommes | 14:19 |
| niala1 | linux fundation host meego if you want an association | 14:19 |
| arfoll | KevinB, i dont disagree, but you have to admit thats alot of work just to collect the money. Probably easier to not charge at all | 14:19 |
| KevinB | héhéhé : Quoi d'autre sinon? (What else could you use) instead of assiciation | 14:20 |
| bunk | KevinB: US$ 102 000 000 revenue on Android Market in 2010 | 14:20 |
| KevinB | yea for example that would be great | 14:20 |
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| bunk | (same revenue as Ovi Store in 2010) | 14:20 |
| arfoll | Anyways to me the whole point of meego is that ISVs can make their own appstore and they can grab the 30% revenue | 14:20 |
| * lcuk2 sighs and goes to sit down laterally on the bench | 14:21 | |
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| * arfoll feels its a shame it's going to be the telco's grabbing that 30% if meego ever gets off commercially | 14:22 | |
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| KevinB | What about this : If a meego app is distributed through an appstore, it needs to be at least (1€ or else) and the money goes to Linux Fundattion | 14:24 |
| Stskeeps | that's not very 'libre' is it | 14:25 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 14:25 |
| KevinB | Otherwise , user can install it manually | 14:25 |
| KevinB | for free or give what they want | 14:25 |
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| KevinB | I just on the app store ppl shouldnt see any 0€ good open source app | 14:25 |
| KevinB | If they wanna install the open-soft not through appstore, then it s free and on their own | 14:26 |
| KevinB | But actuallt people would say : ho only 1€... it must be not good... maybe the effect wanted wouldnt occur | 14:28 |
| niala1 | meego is opensource app not necessarily. An app can exist only closed even for gpl/operating system | 14:28 |
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| niala1 | an app can just exist on ovi for example | 14:29 |
| niala1 | user can buy vuvuzela app $5 on ovi. | 14:30 |
| niala1 | well maybe nokia is not the good example :) | 14:31 |
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| lcuk2 | niala1, have you got a link to the vuvuzela app? | 14:34 |
| niala1 | euh, sorry no is only in my crazy brain | 14:34 |
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| z6t6c7u8i | CIAO A TUTTI !!!!! | 14:36 |
| z6t6c7u8i | ||||||||||||||| NEWS---> http://jrabbit.tk <--- |||||||||||||||| | 14:36 |
| z6t6c7u8i | . | 14:36 |
| z6t6c7u8i | ||||||||||||||| only ITALIAN RELEASE NEWS---> http://jrabbit.tk <--- |||||||||||||||| | 14:36 |
| z6t6c7u8i | . | 14:36 |
| z6t6c7u8i | . | 14:36 |
| z6t6c7u8i | ||||||||||||||| WII---> http://jrabbit.tk <--- |||||||||||||||| | 14:36 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Stskeeps | 14:36 | |
| lcuk2 | shame, its a bit quiet in the house and could do with vuvuzela concerto | 14:36 |
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| *** Stskeeps sets mode: +b *!*Fressa@95.235.58.* | 14:36 | |
| *** z6t6c7u8i was kicked by Stskeeps (z6t6c7u8i) | 14:36 | |
| KevinB | héhé | 14:36 |
| *** Stskeeps sets mode: -o Stskeeps | 14:36 | |
| lcuk2 | hurray Stskeeps, that was quick | 14:37 |
| RST38h | <yawn> | 14:37 |
| lcuk2 | there was a reactions interactive exhibit at MOSI, timing between seeing and hearing things | 14:37 |
| RST38h | Soo, gentlemen, any news? | 14:37 |
| RST38h | Are we close to handset 1.2 at least? | 14:37 |
| Stskeeps | 1.2? what's that? | 14:37 |
| KevinB | Who wants to answer me : Who wanna developp commercial app, on a open platform where you know there s an opponent app that is at least as good as your commercial. | 14:37 |
| lcuk2 | RST38h, yeah, theres an awesome vuvuzela app on Ovi (according to niala1) | 14:38 |
| KevinB | and free | 14:38 |
| KevinB | 0€ | 14:38 |
| lcuk2 | KevinB, wrong question | 14:38 |
| KevinB | That is the point I mind | 14:38 |
| lcuk2 | the devloper should ask: what can I put into my app to add value and give me brand recognition. | 14:39 |
| KevinB | mmmm... and as soon as you add value 2 month after the open one got the feature | 14:39 |
| lcuk2 | with 100 fart apps in the app store | 14:39 |
| lcuk2 | how do you make yours unique | 14:39 |
| RST38h | lcuk: You record elephant farting ... profit. | 14:40 |
| lcuk2 | "elephant farts" | 14:40 |
| lcuk2 | decent | 14:40 |
| lcuk2 | it should set of the vibration at same time I assume | 14:40 |
| matrixx | do the fart apps have visual effects yet? | 14:41 |
| matrixx | it could add a value to add brown smudge effect | 14:41 |
| KevinB | XD | 14:42 |
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| KevinB | I get the point : Commercial app needs to be creative, that s the only requirement | 14:43 |
| lcuk2 | no | 14:43 |
| lcuk2 | there are 50 apps | 14:43 |
| lcuk2 | all free | 14:43 |
| Ans5i | fart hits the fan :) | 14:43 |
| lcuk2 | which do you choose? | 14:43 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Ok, if you want me to get really medie^H^H^Hcreative, attach the elephant fart to an accelerometer so that it activates every time there is a tram or someone is entering the room | 14:43 |
| lainwir3d | random ? | 14:44 |
| lainwir3d | i'm not going to try all | 14:44 |
| lainwir3d | or i'm going to take the one i saw someone recommand on a blog or something | 14:44 |
| lcuk2 | brand recognition | 14:44 |
| matrixx | RST38h: what a great idea! | 14:44 |
| KevinB | the not free(>0€) one, it must be the good one :D | 14:44 |
| KevinB | I'm a stupid normal customer | 14:44 |
| * arfoll just received a htc wildfire. guessing no one has meego running on that :-( | 14:44 | |
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| lcuk2 | KevinB, same question: there are 50 apps | 14:45 |
| lcuk2 | all $X price | 14:45 |
| lcuk2 | which do you choose? | 14:45 |
| KevinB | I dunoo | 14:45 |
| lainwir3d | cheaper ! | 14:45 |
| KevinB | the most expensive one must be the good | 14:45 |
| lcuk2 | all same price | 14:45 |
| lainwir3d | oh | 14:45 |
| lcuk2 | like music singles | 14:45 |
| KevinB | I'm a stupid customer | 14:45 |
| * RST38h should open an iPhone app workshop, with great "ideas" like these... | 14:45 | |
| lainwir3d | brand recognition ! | 14:45 |
| lcuk2 | :) | 14:45 |
| matrixx | I would choose the one which has more features of if no feature differences, then I would choose the one which has most appealing screenshots | 14:46 |
| KevinB | RST38h I follow you, I'm "smelling" som good deal there | 14:46 |
| KevinB | ;) | 14:46 |
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| RST38h | Let us consider an application that, when it senses an NFC-equipped device, sends it $5, making the other device send $5 back | 14:46 |
| RST38h | Both users will get excited after receiving $5 from a total stranger! | 14:46 |
| matrixx | :D | 14:46 |
| Raim | RST38h: lol :D | 14:47 |
| lcuk2 | RST38h, did you read what I asked to read last week? | 14:47 |
| timeless_w7ip | lcuk: i'd get the one w/ the most farts.. er downloads | 14:47 |
| lcuk2 | lol | 14:47 |
| RST38h | After all, EXPERIENCE is what we are selling to iPhone users, isn't it? | 14:47 |
| RST38h | lcuk: That was last week. I have done a warm reboot yesterday. | 14:47 |
| lcuk2 | RST38h, the stuff I sent out as handwritten | 14:48 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Russian Armed Forces Holiday. State TV celebrated by showing "Black Hawk Down" =) | 14:48 |
| RST38h | lcuk: You know, warm reboot also resets all image information. Audio too. | 14:48 |
| RST38h | lcuk: If you wrote it on a bank check and sent it to me, I would remember it though: bank data is persistent =) | 14:49 |
| lcuk2 | nm then :) | 14:49 |
| lcuk2 | it was the full text of: http://liqbase.net/liq.20110208_002.liqbook.on.meego.ideapad.jpg | 14:50 |
| RST38h | Aha | 14:50 |
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| RST38h | lcuk: Got it. | 14:51 |
| RST38h | lcuk: You have got pretty decent handwriting. So, yea, it is ok if someone sees my email in your handwriting. | 14:51 |
| RST38h | lcuk: I am not so sure about my own though | 14:51 |
| KevinB | luck2, it s a wp ahaaaa eyes re bleeding | 14:51 |
| lcuk2 | RST38h, my own handwriting is poor, but just like playing a game | 14:52 |
| lcuk2 | you practice until you get it right | 14:52 |
| * lcuk2 shows first test : | 14:52 | |
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| KevinB | ho I cconfused coz of the ugly arrow sorry | 14:53 |
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| lcuk2 | http://liqbase.net/liq.20081124_225420.gary.scr.png and in context: http://liqbase.net/liq.20081124_225643.gary.scr.png | 14:53 |
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| lcuk2 | so long ago! | 14:53 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Nah, I really prefer it in lifeless ASCII | 14:55 |
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| lcuk2 | RST38h, I got to take a little bit more of Tracy to FOSDEM with me :) | 14:56 |
| RST38h | Hehe :) | 14:57 |
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| RST38h | lcuk: Take the whole thing! | 14:57 |
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| lcuk2 | RST38h, kids and money and complications | 14:57 |
| RST38h | lcuk: yeah, fmailiar =( | 14:57 |
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| KevinB | And I keep thinking 0€ app on appstore should be forbidden | 14:58 |
| KevinB | whatever licence are | 14:58 |
| KevinB | if it s GPL then the 1€ would go to open source fundation | 14:58 |
| KevinB | it s good way to thanks the people that make this piece of art we gonna use | 14:59 |
| KevinB | or it may be impossible, and I' m just dreaming about Fairy tales | 15:00 |
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| lcuk2 | KevinB, its good to consider alternatives to current principles | 15:00 |
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| lcuk2 | I remember hearing about one of my friends dads. he wrote an msdos app | 15:00 |
| lcuk2 | and released it as shareware | 15:00 |
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| lcuk2 | the biggest smile came when he got a cheque in the post | 15:01 |
| KevinB | :) must feel good for sure | 15:01 |
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| lcuk2 | someone had actually gone out of their way to read the info screens, write the cheque, head to post office, post it. | 15:01 |
| KevinB | what percentage of use is like this? | 15:03 |
| KevinB | *user | 15:03 |
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| niala1 | not me... sorry | 15:04 |
| lcuk2 | not high, but it could be if it were made as simple as patting someone on back or tipping waiter or taxi :) | 15:04 |
| niala1 | maybe paypal if i win loto :) | 15:04 |
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| timeless_w7ip | ok, http://mxr.meego.com/repo.meego.com/source/ is now currently generating a set of reasonable sources. it's automatically copying over a spec file (but not the yaml, because i forgot) | 15:06 |
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| timeless_w7ip | anyone here know if there's a policy on directory permissions for sources? | 15:07 |
| timeless_w7ip | see droid-fonts and dropbear for why i ask | 15:07 |
| timeless_w7ip | (and ctags) | 15:07 |
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| timeless_w7ip | grr. babl wins a prize for the most lame README first line i've seen this hour | 15:08 |
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| timeless_w7ip | anyone here willing to be my 'tar' buddy? | 15:11 |
| timeless_w7ip | all i want for today is a way to tell tar 'all files should be +r' | 15:12 |
| timeless_w7ip | 'ignore the evil ****ards who said files should not be readable by anyone bu the owner | 15:12 |
| timeless_w7ip | s/bu/but/ | 15:12 |
| infobot | timeless_w7ip meant: 'ignore the evil ****ards who said files should not be readable by anyone but the owner | 15:12 |
| niala1 | find + chmod ? | 15:14 |
| RST38h | -o | 15:14 |
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| timeless_w7ip | niala: for 5 files, that's tolerably cheap | 15:19 |
| niala1 | find / -iname .tar -exec chmod a+r \; something like that .... ? | 15:19 |
| timeless_w7ip | for an entire repository, that's rather expensive | 15:19 |
| timeless_w7ip | it's really just chmod -R +r . | 15:19 |
| timeless_w7ip | but it's just incredibly expensive | 15:20 |
| timeless_w7ip | when the right thing would be a flag to tar saying "do not try to mess with the read bit when you extract files" | 15:20 |
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| warg | -p timeless_w7ip ? | 15:20 |
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| lainwir3d | well | 15:20 |
| warg | preserve permissions when extracting | 15:20 |
| lainwir3d | there is "preserve permission" -p | 15:20 |
| warg | ^^ | 15:21 |
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| lainwir3d | :-o too slow :-( | 15:21 |
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| warg | hrhr | 15:21 |
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| timeless_w7ip | warg: i suspect that -p preserves the permissions of the files as they're listed in the archive | 15:21 |
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| timeless_w7ip | which is basically the opposite of what i want | 15:21 |
| lainwir3d | or maybe changing umode before extracting | 15:21 |
| timeless_w7ip | please feel free to test and tell me i'm wrong | 15:21 |
| warg | <timeless_w7ip> when the right thing would be a flag to tar saying "do not try to mess with the read bit when you extract files" | 15:22 |
| warg | ^ it does that | 15:22 |
| warg | but if the files were put into the archive as not publicly readable, then they will extract as not publicly readable | 15:22 |
| lainwir3d | umask* | 15:22 |
| warg | so w/ -p you get out what you put in | 15:22 |
| niala1 | xargs instead of -exec | 15:22 |
| timeless_w7ip | i don't want what some idiot put in! | 15:23 |
| timeless_w7ip | i want +r no matter what the idiot was thinking. that's the point! | 15:23 |
| warg | no need to shout at me! :( | 15:23 |
| * warg goes and does something useful | 15:23 | |
| timeless_w7ip | sorry, you could help by filing bugs to the idiots :) | 15:23 |
| warg | what's bugged? | 15:23 |
| lainwir3d | or spamming them | 15:23 |
| warg | tar? - not, wai | 15:23 |
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| timeless_w7ip | lainwir3d: i don't think umask helps either | 15:24 |
| timeless_w7ip | if a command tries to do open 0600, there's no umask that will yield 0644 | 15:25 |
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| timeless_w7ip | warg: load http://mxr.meego.com/repo.meego.com/source/ | 15:25 |
| timeless_w7ip | each directory you see without a description is almost certainly bugged | 15:26 |
| timeless_w7ip | in that the packager of that package insisted on 0xx0 permissions for his directory/files | 15:26 |
| warg | timeless_w7ip, i wasn't referring to anything about meego, i was referring to helping you do what you want to accomplish w/ tar | 15:26 |
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| timeless_w7ip | oh | 15:27 |
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| timeless_w7ip | well, do you think there's a flag i've missed in tar? i can't find one, -p seems to be "enforce the archive's permissions" which is not what i want, and umask is "try to be stricter than the archive's permissions" which isn't what i want | 15:27 |
| timeless_w7ip | i want "be laxer than the archive's permissions wrt the +r bit" | 15:28 |
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| timeless_w7ip | (it's mostly the opposite of umask) | 15:28 |
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| warg | you can chmod the appropriate permissions after extraction, or you can before creating the archive so then -p will do what you want. | 15:28 |
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| timeless_w7ip | warg: if it was 1 file, it'd be fine | 15:29 |
| timeless_w7ip | we're talking about 1440 packages, none of which i own | 15:29 |
| warg | *shrug* | 15:29 |
| warg | it is what it is | 15:29 |
| timeless_w7ip | each of which presumably is packaged occasionally and thus needs to be dealt with repeatedly | 15:29 |
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| warg | chances are it'll be world readable anyway, if you don't have a umask blocking it | 15:30 |
| warg | and don't use -p | 15:30 |
| odin_ | umask 0002 && tar --no-same-permissions ? | 15:31 |
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| warg | ^^ | 15:31 |
| timeless_w7ip | odin: sounds vaguely promising | 15:31 |
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| timeless_w7ip | odin: only concern is what happens to the +x bit? | 15:32 |
| timeless_w7ip | (i'm currently using --no-same-owner fwiw) | 15:33 |
| odin_ | are you running 'tar' as root user ? | 15:33 |
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| timeless_w7ip | nope | 15:34 |
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| timeless_w7ip | there are 2 users: timeless [runs tar xf via rpmbuild -bp]; apacche [runs ls, cat via mxr] | 15:34 |
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| timeless_w7ip | there was a third user for each package, known hereafter as "that idiot who wrote the crappy package" | 15:35 |
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| odin_ | I would have thought --no-same-owner only made sense as root, since a non-root user can't create (or give away with chown) a file to another user, some other unix you can do this, usually unix that don't support file system quotas | 15:35 |
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| timeless_w7ip | the problem i used --no-same-owner for is that packages seem to have random users/groups and tar seemed to complain that it couldn't restore those | 15:36 |
| timeless_w7ip | i didn't need or want its complaints | 15:36 |
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| * timeless_w7ip should probably just get the source for tar and hack it to support --ignore-requests-to-make-files-unreadable | 15:37 | |
| odin_ | ok you quash the warning with the option (maybe also restore the successful exit status) | 15:37 |
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| timeless_w7ip | yeah, i think the exit status might have been the key bit | 15:40 |
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| RST38h | lcuk: BTW check out this little guy: http://gizmodo.com/#!5769094/livescribe-pens-lets-you-search-for-info-on-your-written-words | 15:42 |
| RST38h | lcuk: It has been around for a while, and you can write applications for it | 15:42 |
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| timeless_w7ip | any idea what this means: http://pastebin.mozilla.org/1094983 ? | 15:43 |
| lcuk | yeah RST38h, but not my intent | 15:44 |
| RST38h | A progress message | 15:44 |
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| timeless_w7ip | http://mxr.meego.com/meego.gitorious.org/search?string=git.meego | 15:46 |
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| * timeless_w7ip finds the 3 places which talk about git.meego.org! | 15:46 | |
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| * timeless_w7ip is pretty sure the annoying one was mutter | 15:47 | |
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| Jaffa | slaine: Belatedly, yes: http://twitter.com/#!/valhalla101/statuses/40756957195407360 | 15:48 |
| Jaffa | slaine: (could well be old news now) | 15:48 |
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| slaine | Jaffa: yeah, spotted the clarification | 15:49 |
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| timeless_w7ip | anyone here know a "Juhani Hanninen"? | 15:49 |
| slaine | Wonder where he's going, the love for meego bit makes me think he's going somewhere were he can be still involved. | 15:49 |
| * Jaffa wonders, again, what this means for the TSG. | 15:50 | |
| Jaffa | But there've been no answers yet, AFAICT. | 15:50 |
| timeless_w7ip | jaffa: hopefully nokia will eventually be kicked off tsg | 15:50 |
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| timeless_w7ip | http://mxr.meego.com/meego.gitorious.org/ident?i=QDBusConnection | 15:53 |
| timeless_w7ip | so, people who want to try using mxr.meego.com's xref facilities, the meego.gitorious root has content including a search index and a cross reference | 15:54 |
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| niala1 | timeless_w7ip: nice thank you | 16:02 |
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| timeless_w7ip | grr | 16:23 |
| * timeless_w7ip bits the stuffing out of rpm, rpmbuild, and evil packagers | 16:23 | |
| sandst1 | timeless_w7ip: what's so evil about them? : ) | 16:25 |
| timeless_w7ip | s/bits/beats/ | 16:25 |
| timeless_w7ip | one sec | 16:25 |
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| timeless_w7ip | http://pastebin.mozilla.org/1095097 | 16:27 |
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| timeless_w7ip | no, you can't build ncurses-libs-x86 without having a fully functional rpm database | 16:28 |
| timeless_w7ip | eWTF. | 16:28 |
| Stskeeps | -x86 is black magic for cross compilers | 16:29 |
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| timeless_w7ip | stskeeps: that's nice of it. | 16:30 |
| Stskeeps | obs tricks. | 16:31 |
| timeless_w7ip | sorry, i'm not amused | 16:31 |
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| sandst1 | one lovely feature of RPM is expanding macros even when they're part of a comment | 16:31 |
| timeless_w7ip | sandst1: ! | 16:32 |
| timeless_w7ip | sandst1: do they deal any interesting damage by doing that? | 16:32 |
| timeless_w7ip | i.e. can they change the meaning of the comment? | 16:32 |
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| timeless_w7ip | oh, and is '0' a valid version number? | 16:33 |
| sandst1 | timeless_w7ip: not the meaning that much but you don't want to have things like %make_install in the comments :) | 16:34 |
| timeless_w7ip | why not? what would happen? | 16:34 |
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| sandst1 | well usually if sth is commented out at least i tend to assume that row doesn't have any effect to the processing | 16:35 |
| timeless_w7ip | right... | 16:35 |
| sandst1 | that has resulted into some interesting errors : ) | 16:36 |
| timeless_w7ip | stskeeps: so... | 16:36 |
| timeless_w7ip | i'm very tempted to have this script write its own spec files | 16:37 |
| * timeless_w7ip wonders what the minimal requirements are to handle spec files used by meego for rpmbuild -bp | 16:37 | |
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| lcuk | question: why do we have different log bots for the different channels? the bot here on #meego is excellent and offers a web frontend and search facility. for #meego-arm the logging is not so easy to process and find stuff in. | 16:52 |
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| timeless_w7ip | lcuk: more exciting this way | 16:52 |
| lcuk | not really | 16:53 |
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| lcuk | I am trying to find out about n900 improvement status | 16:53 |
| lcuk | and hoping to actually get the 20% top speed improvement that was discussed in there | 16:53 |
| lcuk | (it seems N900 is cpu locked to 500mhz) | 16:53 |
| lcuk | if we can get the kernel flags sorted, we can put the max upto 600mhz, just like maemo | 16:54 |
| ali1234 | that's not really N900 related, google for omap 3430 stuff | 16:55 |
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| lcuk | ali1234, that will not help me | 16:55 |
| * lcuk not cpu guru | 16:55 | |
| ali1234 | it won't help you if you're not a kernel hacker | 16:55 |
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| ali1234 | but nothing you find on meego-arm will either | 16:56 |
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| ali1234 | lcuk your best bet is to look at the diff for power kernel / maemo to see how they do it, and then apply it to meego kernel | 17:00 |
| ali1234 | but afaik the problem is meego n900 kernel does not support stepping yet, so you will always be locked to whatever speed | 17:01 |
| * timeless_w7ip sighs | 17:01 | |
| timeless_w7ip | so, i have a spec file | 17:01 |
| timeless_w7ip | from here i have no idea of the version of the package | 17:01 |
| timeless_w7ip | and the spec file intentionally doesn't know it either | 17:01 |
| lcuk | timeless_w7ip, lbt ponders the same things | 17:01 |
| timeless_w7ip | really? | 17:02 |
| ali1234 | yeah, lbt has been complaining abut that for months | 17:02 |
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| timeless_w7ip | btw, can i name a package hello-0-world ? | 17:02 |
| timeless_w7ip | (or rather, can evil packager do that) | 17:02 |
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| timeless_w7ip | (if evil packager can do X, evil packager will do X) | 17:03 |
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| timeless_w7ip | i think i'll try praying that i only have one srpm matching <spec-basename-\d.*.src.rpm> | 17:03 |
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| timeless_w7ip | and using the .* to calculate version | 17:04 |
| ali1234 | zypper pa | grep spec-basename | 17:04 |
| timeless_w7ip | and no, i do not look forward to trying to sort version numbers :) | 17:04 |
| ali1234 | i was actually doing this just the other day | 17:05 |
| ali1234 | of course you need a working rpm database to do that... | 17:05 |
| timeless_w7ip | ali: zypper operrates either on rpmdb or <incoming> | 17:05 |
| timeless_w7ip | my rpmdb has 0 entries | 17:05 |
| timeless_w7ip | depending on your definition of working | 17:05 |
| ali1234 | without rpmdb you are pretty much screwed | 17:05 |
| timeless_w7ip | ooh, i know that place! | 17:05 |
| ali1234 | i couldn't find a way to parse the rpm names | 17:05 |
| ali1234 | you get rpms named like eg bash-0 | 17:06 |
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| timeless_w7ip | um, eww? got a reference for that? i'm expecting to try to cheat and would hate to hit that case | 17:06 |
| ali1234 | oh, actually, that might be because the version had two . in it | 17:07 |
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| timeless_w7ip | yeah, as long as i can assume that a leading digit implies the beginning of versioning | 17:07 |
| timeless_w7ip | i'm fine | 17:07 |
| ali1234 | i *thought* that's what my code did... | 17:07 |
| ali1234 | but obviously not | 17:07 |
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| ali1234 | specifically, i was looking for the last - before a . and splitting on that | 17:08 |
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| timeless_w7ip | yeah, no, i'm pretty sure you want to look for the first -\d | 17:09 |
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| timeless_w7ip | build-2011.01.10a-1.2.src.rpm | 17:09 |
| timeless_w7ip | ... | 17:10 |
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| ali1234 | that's fine | 17:10 |
| ali1234 | version = 2011.01.10a no? | 17:10 |
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| timeless_w7ip | yes | 17:10 |
| timeless_w7ip | (.*?)-(\d.*?)-(.*).src.rpm => name, version, crap | 17:11 |
| ali1234 | http://www.commandlinefu.com/commands/view/4386/parse-an-rpm-name-into-its-components-fast | 17:11 |
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| ali1234 | can't confirm it is "right" | 17:12 |
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| * timeless_w7ip doesn't speak sh() | 17:12 | |
| ali1234 | what language then? | 17:13 |
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| timeless_w7ip | perl prefered | 17:14 |
| timeless_w7ip | offhand, rpm=arg; b=strip .*/ from rpm; a=strip .<trailing> from b | 17:14 |
| ali1234 | http://rpmtoolbox.sourceforge.net/RPM-Toolbox-Spec/RPM-Toolbox-Spec.html | 17:14 |
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| ali1234 | oh wait, that just uses rpm | 17:15 |
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| ali1234 | maybe not for the parsing code though | 17:15 |
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| timeless_w7ip | it sure looks like it talks to rpm | 17:16 |
| timeless_w7ip | i definitely don't want that | 17:16 |
| timeless_w7ip | i'm already talking to it, and we mutually hate eachother | 17:16 |
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| timeless_w7ip | caveats: This class doesn't really parse anything, it extracts information by calling rpm and rpmbuild in various ways and analyzing their output. It takes several passes to obtain all of the fields, so the spec is evaluated more than once. This is quite slow; the "cache" option improves that somewhat. | 17:16 |
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| ali1234 | yeah thats no good | 17:17 |
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| timeless_w7ip | yeah, definitely not :) | 17:17 |
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| timeless_w7ip | i'll stick to the sh() | 17:17 |
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| ali1234 | personally i would not try to do it with a regexp | 17:17 |
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| timeless_w7ip | oh fsck | 17:18 |
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| timeless_w7ip | you can have a digit randomly placed after a dash | 17:18 |
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| ali1234 | example? | 17:18 |
| timeless_w7ip | xorg-x11-fonts-ISO8859-1-75dpi-7.1-2.1.el5.noarch.rpm | 17:18 |
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| ali1234 | heh | 17:19 |
| timeless_w7ip | your sh() url had it | 17:19 |
| timeless_w7ip | very nice and happily pathological | 17:19 |
| ali1234 | well how about starting at the other end? | 17:19 |
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| ali1234 | you can't do that with regexp of course | 17:19 |
| timeless_w7ip | sure you can | 17:19 |
| timeless_w7ip | you just make things greedy instead | 17:19 |
| ali1234 | maybe if you are some kind of regexp wizard | 17:19 |
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| timeless_w7ip | (.*)-([^-]+)-([^-]+)\.([^.]+)\.rpm | 17:20 |
| ali1234 | in python i would rsplit on - with limit of 3, giving ['xorg-x11-fonts-ISO8859-1-75dpi', '7.1', '2.1.el5.noarch.rpm'] | 17:21 |
| ali1234 | i don't know perl | 17:21 |
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| timeless_w7ip | $ echo xorg-x11-fonts-ISO8859-1-75dpi-7.1-2.1.el5.noarch.rpm| perl -pne 's!(.*)-([^-]+)-([^-]+)\.([^.]+)\.rpm! $1 $2 $3 $4!'rn xorg-x11-fonts-ISO8859-1-75dpi 7.1 2.1.el5 noarch | 17:21 |
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| lcuk | Filed a bug about the 20% | 17:22 |
| lcuk | https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13833 | 17:22 |
| MeeGoBot | Bug 13833 nor, Undecided, ---, ulf.hofemeier, NEW, N900 operating at 500mhz, 20% slower than Maemo | 17:22 |
| ali1234 | lcuk, i think the point is that 500Mhz was deliberately chosen because scaling does not work, and they don't want to melt people's hardware | 17:24 |
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| lcuk | ali1234, I know :) | 17:24 |
| timeless_w7ip | ali: but we [meego] want to melt hardware! | 17:24 |
| lcuk | that is the "normal" operating speed for the cpu when no power saving is in effect | 17:24 |
| timeless_w7ip | it makes for more sales | 17:24 |
| ali1234 | so the bug should really be called "n900 hardware adaptation lacks cpu scaling" | 17:24 |
| timeless_w7ip | and hardware sales are good :) | 17:24 |
| ali1234 | and in fact, i bet there's already such a bug | 17:24 |
| lcuk | ali1234, there is bug 7790 | 17:25 |
| MeeGoBot | Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=7790 nor, Medium, 1.0.90.4, ilkka.koskinen, ASSI, N900 turns warm quickly after boot | 17:25 |
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| lcuk | which is marked as a dependence | 17:25 |
| ali1234 | another silly named bug | 17:25 |
| * timeless_w7ip ready koskinen!quickly as 'kittens' | 17:26 | |
| timeless_w7ip | => n900 warms kittens | 17:26 |
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| timeless_w7ip | grr | 18:11 |
| * timeless_w7ip kicks rpmbuild | 18:12 | |
| timeless_w7ip | so, i have a script, it's running hundreds of rpm builds | 18:12 |
| timeless_w7ip | one of them decides to call patch | 18:12 |
| timeless_w7ip | and patch stops and says: | 18:12 |
| timeless_w7ip | Reversed (or previously applied) patch detected! Assume -R? [n] | 18:12 |
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| * timeless_w7ip grumbles | 18:18 | |
| timeless_w7ip | stskeeps? | 18:18 |
| timeless_w7ip | am i better off setting up an obs system? | 18:18 |
| timeless_w7ip | not that i want an obs system | 18:19 |
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| timeless_w7ip | it seems like the only way to get this stuff to behave at all is to provide all required deps the proper env, and then use rpmbuild -bp | 18:19 |
| timeless_w7ip | (and then smuggle out the data) | 18:19 |
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| * timeless_w7ip wonders if there's a bp which skips 'configure' | 18:22 | |
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| mdfe | hi there, can anybody create me an obs account? | 18:24 |
| timeless_w7ip | mdfe: did you file a bug asking for one? | 18:24 |
| * timeless_w7ip thought that was the process | 18:24 | |
| * timeless_w7ip sighs | 18:24 | |
| mdfe | asking for one | 18:24 |
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| * timeless_w7ip is totally confused | 18:25 | |
| timeless_w7ip | afaik, '-bp' = prep, and '-bc' or something is build and configure is supposedly part of the build phase | 18:25 |
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| timeless_w7ip | so why is it that i see all sorts of things trying to do configure work? | 18:25 |
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| timeless_w7ip | [crickets] | 19:05 |
| berndhs | psst | 19:06 |
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| timeless_w7ip | hey berndhs | 19:07 |
| timeless_w7ip | give http://mxr.meego.com/meego.gitorious.org/source/ a spin | 19:07 |
| gabrbedd | be vewwy, vewwy twiet. I'm hunting WABBIT. | 19:07 |
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| timeless_w7ip | it isn't cron'd yet, i'm still waiting for a linux repo to get off its rump and finish integrating, but it should be vaguely useful | 19:08 |
| timeless_w7ip | the repo.meego.com root is unfortunately further behind in terms of things | 19:08 |
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| timeless_w7ip | (it should take about 20hrs for the linux repo to integrate, and then i can look into cronning it) | 19:10 |
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| omarjuarezortiz | Hello ? | 21:34 |
| omarjuarezortiz | Hi everyone. | 21:34 |
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| omarjuarezortiz | Is anybode alive ? | 21:34 |
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| omarjuarezortiz | Hello people... i need some help from a Finnish | 21:36 |
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| bunk | omarjuarezortiz: general IRC rule: ask your meego question and wait | 22:32 |
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| lcuk | or play cards | 22:33 |
| lcuk | or discuss other things | 22:33 |
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| hena | n sattunu eteen :D http://www.kolumbus.fi/jedi.akatemia/ | 22:35 |
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| thiago_home | hena: some of us are Finnish-challenged | 22:38 |
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| hena | i have no idea where that came from... | 22:40 |
| hena | havenät even seen that link before.. | 22:40 |
| hena | spooky | 22:40 |
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| vlj | hi | 22:53 |
| vlj | RST38h: hi | 22:53 |
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| vlj | RST38h: hi | 23:03 |
| vlj | thiago_home: hi | 23:03 |
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| thiago_home | vlj: heya | 23:04 |
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| vlj | thiago_home: is it possible to set the compression level of jpeg when using qt-mobility to take shot ? | 23:04 |
| thiago_home | vlj: no clue... | 23:05 |
| Crash247-Michael | vlj, Not exactly. | 23:06 |
| vlj | hmm | 23:06 |
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| vlj | Crash247-Michael: is it possible to fine controls the exposure time ? | 23:07 |
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| Crash247-Michael | vlj, Thats actually a really good question. I am not totally sure. | 23:09 |
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| vlj | thiago_home: I saw there was a release of qt for android yesterday... is it an "official" port ? | 23:11 |
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| vlj | "necessitas" framework is it named | 23:12 |
| thiago_home | vlj: we want it to be official | 23:12 |
| thiago_home | and allow it to be called Qt port for Android | 23:12 |
| vlj | ...but ? | 23:12 |
| thiago_home | but this is completely uncharted territory | 23:13 |
| thiago_home | we have never had a community port | 23:13 |
| thiago_home | we need to work with bogdan to get it integrated in the Qt master codeline | 23:13 |
| vlj | ok | 23:13 |
| thiago_home | it'll probably happen after the 4.8 branch though | 23:13 |
| vlj | he has done a lot of work to get the thing ported | 23:13 |
| thiago_home | yep | 23:14 |
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| thiago_home | he deserves the recognition | 23:15 |
| thiago_home | oddly enough, because of MS we're now more able to offer him that recognition | 23:15 |
| vlj | all of these on his spare time ? | 23:15 |
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| thiago_home | no fear of industry analysts speculating that Nokia is switching to Android because of it | 23:15 |
| vlj | :p | 23:15 |
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| thiago_home | yes, all of it in the spare time | 23:15 |
| thiago_home | he did build upon the Lighthouse port though | 23:16 |
| ali1234 | i remember hearding about Qt on android last year, is it the same thing or a different project? | 23:16 |
| thiago_home | there are a couple of man-years there from us | 23:16 |
| thiago_home | it's the same codebase that allows Qt to run on Wayland today | 23:16 |
| thiago_home | ali1234: same project | 23:16 |
| ali1234 | cool, so no duplicated effort. i like it. | 23:17 |
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| ali1234 | well, the analysts will still speculate that all nokia's "ecosystem" developers will switch to Qt on android... i know i will never touch any MS or apple stuff | 23:20 |
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| thiago_home | why would people want to run Qt on Android? I mean, the tech is good, but why use the middleman? | 23:24 |
| thiago_home | Qt only makes sense if you're reusing code from other platforms | 23:24 |
| thiago_home | or if it's the native, which is the case of MeeGo | 23:24 |
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| vlj | thiago_home: it might have sense if you developp desktop/android apps | 23:26 |
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| thiago_home | our strategy is: your business logic stays the same, in C++; the UI in QML is very easy to change, but you're supposed to adapt to each system | 23:26 |
| thiago_home | best integration requires work to integrate | 23:26 |
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| thiago_home | but that's my point: if someone is writing just Android apps, why would they bother with Qt? | 23:27 |
| ali1234 | if i've spent two years writing Qt code for symbian, and then I have a choice between rewriting it all in silverlight or whatever, or just porting the existing code to android... guess which one i pick | 23:27 |
| vlj | maybe for the same reason that people does rather use qt than pure symbian c/c++ coding ? :p | 23:27 |
| thiago_home | ali1234: ah, in that case yeah | 23:28 |
| vlj | I have no idea if android is easier (or not) to code than symbian | 23:28 |
| thiago_home | I thought you meant new developers | 23:28 |
| ali1234 | no i meant the existing developers writing stuff for ovi store | 23:28 |
| thiago_home | either way, it doesn't increase Qt's attractiveness | 23:28 |
| ali1234 | in my opinion Qt is currently the best option for writing cross platform code | 23:29 |
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| * bunk was surprised that N does not intend to use Qt on WP | 23:29 | |
| ali1234 | more platforms therefore is always a good thing | 23:29 |
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| ali1234 | bunk: me too, it seems logical, i mean Qt already has a windows mobile port... | 23:30 |
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| thiago_home | bunk: the official party line is that N wants an undiluted offering for WP, which already exists for all devices. That's MS Visual Studio. | 23:37 |
| thiago_home | we speculate that MS had some saying about it. Anyway, that's off-topic (not MeeGo talk) | 23:37 |
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