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| sivang | ali1234: thank you. | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
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| sivang | ali1234: can you send me the link for the ml thread on the achive? | 00:01 |
| ali1234 | http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-community/2011-February/003441.html | 00:03 |
| sivang | Venemo: ^^^ | 00:03 |
| sivang | Venemo: thank you | 00:03 |
| sivang | thank you guys, I wish more offered their opinion | 00:04 |
| ali1234 | always happy to offer an opinion... you might not always like it though :) | 00:04 |
| Venemo | thx sivang | 00:05 |
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| sivang | ali1234: I happen to appreciate this because when I looked at this those things did not bother me so much, but if they bothered you, then surely more will get annoyed at them | 00:09 |
| sivang | ali1234: a discussion is a key in community offerings I think | 00:09 |
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| RainCT | Is there some proper way to download the Meego .img? The download from Amazon died at 468MB (and already did the same before when I had 150MB and made me start downloading from scratch :/). | 00:10 |
| sivang | RainCT: amazon? | 00:10 |
| sivang | RainCT: you mean intel? | 00:10 |
| RainCT | I'd like to "wget -c" but the URL on the website is single user (is there some other url?). I've tried continuing via torrent but there's no one seeding. | 00:10 |
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| RainCT | sivang: Meego website, it sends me to amazon AWS | 00:10 |
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| ali1234 | no one is seeding the meego image? srsly? | 00:11 |
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| RainCT | At least not the one I found on Google (searched for meego-netbook-ia32-chrome-1.1), I just got 2 people but it wouldn't download from them | 00:12 |
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| RainCT | ali1234: Do you have some good link? | 00:14 |
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| ali1234 | no, sorry | 00:15 |
| gabrbedd | RainCT: Often, the problem is network dropouts (either on your end or your ISP's). One way to work around it is to... | 00:15 |
| ali1234 | which image is it anyway? there's quite a few | 00:15 |
| RainCT | meego-netbook-ia32-chrome-1.1 | 00:15 |
| gabrbedd | RainCT: Adjust the TCP keepalive inteval on your system. | 00:15 |
| ali1234 | RainCT: i would open a bug about it :) | 00:15 |
| pupnik_ | fuuaoffosb | 00:15 |
| ali1234 | "meego image download cannot be restarted" | 00:15 |
| pupnik_ | sorry | 00:15 |
| gabrbedd | RainCT: You can do this temporarily like this: | 00:15 |
| thiago_home | TCP keepalive is generally useless | 00:15 |
| gabrbedd | RainCT: as root... | 00:16 |
| gabrbedd | RainCT: echo 60 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/tcp_keepalive_time | 00:16 |
| gabrbedd | thiago_home: Generally, yes... but it's helped me out of a few tight spots. | 00:17 |
| thiago_home | why do you want to *reduce* the interval? | 00:17 |
| ali1234 | the meego download page redirects me to mirrors4.kernel.org, not AWS... | 00:17 |
| Venemo | sivang: about the meego videos: YES, THIS IS WHAT I WANTED TO SEE about MeeGo :) | 00:18 |
| ali1234 | specifically: http://mirrors4.kernel.org/meego/releases/1.1/netbook/images/meego-netbook-ia32/meego-netbook-ia32-1.1.img | 00:18 |
| gabrbedd | thiago_home: um... to increase the frequency? :-p | 00:18 |
| Venemo | sivang: MeeGo needs more of these if it wants to win | 00:18 |
| thiago_home | gabrbedd: to every minute? | 00:18 |
| thiago_home | gabrbedd: I don't get what that would buy | 00:18 |
| ali1234 | i presume the interval is the frequency at which keepalive packets are sent? | 00:19 |
| RainCT | Ah. So only the download with Chrome sucks :/ | 00:19 |
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| thiago_home | ali1234: the interval yes | 00:19 |
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| thiago_home | the *time* (the variable gabrbedd is trying) is the idle time before sending the first probe | 00:19 |
| ali1234 | therefore reducing the interval would make you less likely to get timeouts | 00:19 |
| thiago_home | not really | 00:19 |
| thiago_home | you guys are mixing up the layers of the stack | 00:19 |
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| thiago_home | the timeout doesn't come from TCP | 00:19 |
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| gabrbedd | thiago_home: I don't have a technical answer. The voo-doo idea is that during the long download, without any new activity, a router somewhere is "forgetting" your connection. | 00:20 |
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| RainCT | OK, so I'll try downloading from kernel.org. Thanks. | 00:21 |
| gabrbedd | thiago_home: And when I reduce the keepalive interval... it seems to fix that. | 00:21 |
| lcuk | hurrah! someone from Intel has stepped up to have a go at Wifi Direct support in 1.3 :D:D bug 4729 | 00:21 |
| thiago_home | if you're experience TCP disconnects, under default conditions, it would happen after 2 hours 12 minutes and 30 seconds | 00:21 |
| gabrbedd | ymmv. | 00:21 |
| MeeGoBot | Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=4729 enh, Undecided, ---, prahlad.gokul, INDE, [FEA] WiFi Direct (WLAN P2P) Support | 00:21 |
| ali1234 | what's wifi direct? | 00:21 |
| thiago_home | gabrbedd: that could be, if you have a bad stateful NAT on the way | 00:21 |
| lcuk | encrypted ad-hoc | 00:21 |
| lcuk | there is no ad-hoc support in MeeGo at all atm | 00:22 |
| ali1234 | doesn't everyone carry around a wireless router in the emergency kit bag? | 00:22 |
| lcuk | you cannot connect your meego device onto an ad-hoc network :( Wifi Direct is the secure version of it | 00:22 |
| Stskeeps | ali1234: i gave mine away, bad idea.. | 00:22 |
| Stskeeps | ali1234: had a nice hackable fonera | 00:22 |
| lcuk | thiago_home, with the multicast support coming in Qt4.8 | 00:22 |
| lbt | DawnFoster: ping | 00:22 |
| lcuk | it might actually be usable for things :) | 00:22 |
| thiago_home | lcuk: hmmm? | 00:23 |
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| lcuk | http://bugreports.qt.nokia.com/browse/QTBUG-7 | 00:23 |
| lcuk | very early qtbug which needed fixing | 00:23 |
| lcuk | http://bugreports.qt.nokia.com/browse/QTBUG-8652 | 00:23 |
| lcuk | got fixed very recently for 4.8 branch | 00:23 |
| lcuk | h | 00:23 |
| gabrbedd | thiago_home: I seem to recall that in one instance... it was indeed the router in my house. But I think I've been in other situations where I don't know who was dropping the ball. | 00:23 |
| DawnFoster | lbt: hey | 00:23 |
| thiago_home | lcuk: it's 7 because it was an old bug that wasn't closed when it was imported from the old DB | 00:24 |
| DawnFoster | Stskeeps: just emailed you that file to look at | 00:24 |
| Stskeeps | DawnFoster: k | 00:24 |
| lcuk | thiago_home, the bug number now is not important | 00:24 |
| lcuk | that was when it was originally raised | 00:24 |
| thiago_home | gabrbedd: this can only happen with stateful routers and firewalls | 00:24 |
| thiago_home | gabrbedd: routers weren't supposed to be stateful... | 00:24 |
| ali1234 | any router that does NAT is stateful | 00:25 |
| thiago_home | right | 00:25 |
| ali1234 | and the firmware vendors *always* screw up the settings | 00:25 |
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| thiago_home | but they weren't supposed to do NAT | 00:25 |
| lcuk | DawnFoster, if you walk past the desk of prahlad.gokul by chance, could you high 5 him please | 00:25 |
| thiago_home | they do it because people don't get enough IPs | 00:25 |
| ali1234 | they do it because the overwhelming majority of people get 1 IP | 00:26 |
| * lcuk cheered up immensely by such little things :) | 00:26 | |
| thiago_home | ali1234: which is not enough :-) | 00:26 |
| sivang | Venemo: your feedback on the ml appreciated | 00:26 |
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| gabrbedd | thiago_home: thanks! | 00:27 |
| Venemo | sivang: ok, will do | 00:27 |
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| sivang | good night all | 00:28 |
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| Stskeeps | DawnFoster: i see no oddities, seems to align up nicely and match (sanity check with release dates of images) | 00:28 |
| gabrbedd | RainCT: So the conclusion is that if the keepalive adjustment fixes the problem... then you probably have a bad router on your local network. :-) | 00:29 |
| DawnFoster | Stskeeps: great, thanks for checking - whenever I have to do that much parsing of files, I like to reality check them | 00:29 |
| Stskeeps | DawnFoster: also good to have some numbers on the interest in our work in these times ;) | 00:29 |
| DawnFoster | Stskeeps: exactly - and I was blown away by the number of people downloading dev builds compared to releases | 00:30 |
| Stskeeps | DawnFoster: that one surprised me a bit too | 00:30 |
| Stskeeps | well, n900-devel vs n900 too | 00:30 |
| ali1234 | well there's only been 2 releases, and there's a dev build every day | 00:31 |
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| lolcat | Can I haz spotify on meego? | 00:31 |
| DawnFoster | ali1234: but it shows that we have a few active group of developers / enthusiasts who aren't afraid of dev builds. | 00:31 |
| sivang | lolcat: sure you can, just ask spotify to build it or run the binary see if ti works | 00:32 |
| DawnFoster | it's great to see - I was just surprised by the numbers | 00:32 |
| sivang | lolcat: they should have a qt client soemtime soon or already in beta | 00:32 |
| ali1234 | IMO it shows that nobody cares about the official releases, cos they are out of date by the time they are released | 00:32 |
| ali1234 | report a bug "that will be fixed in the next release" | 00:32 |
| ali1234 | oh, ok, so why should i care about the released version then? | 00:32 |
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| lolcat | sivang: They do! | 00:33 |
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| lolcat | I am using the qt-wine as we speak | 00:33 |
| lolcat | Meego supports debian mirrors? | 00:34 |
| ali1234 | "the" spotify client uses Qt on windows doesn't it? | 00:34 |
| sivang | lolcat: you can uncompress the package, it is just an ar archive | 00:34 |
| lolcat | The ubuntu one uses qt | 00:34 |
| sivang | lolcat: there's a git somewhere for it I think | 00:34 |
| sivang | lolcat: this client is release open source IIRC? | 00:35 |
| lolcat | I heard git is horrible | 00:35 |
| lolcat | Not as I know of | 00:35 |
| lolcat | There are open-source forks of it | 00:35 |
| pupnik_ | how about a replacement n900 systemboard with omap3640 and 512MB | 00:36 |
| pupnik_ | diy install | 00:36 |
| sivang | lolcat: ask them, write them and ask. They are one nice bunch of people | 00:36 |
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| ali1234 | pupnik_: if you're going to go to such trouble, pls make it fit inside a psion 5 instead | 00:39 |
| lolcat | pupnik_: ? | 00:39 |
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| pupnik_ | nice idea ali1234 | 00:39 |
| lolcat | About that, what do we do when we need new phones? THere are none avaible atm! | 00:39 |
| * pupnik_ is scouring ebay / amazon for n900s | 00:40 | |
| ali1234 | psion 5s are a lot cheaper | 00:40 |
| ali1234 | you'll have to include a new screen too of course | 00:40 |
| pupnik_ | still got mine | 00:41 |
| ali1234 | actually i'd be OK with the guts of a N900 inside a psion5. someone call ben heck! | 00:41 |
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| lolcat | But when the N900 is to old | 00:42 |
| pupnik_ | i'm not sure i like the psion 5 keyboard now | 00:42 |
| lolcat | What do we buy? | 00:42 |
| ali1234 | second hand N900s | 00:42 |
| pupnik_ | the thinkoutside stowaway / netbook keyboards are bigger | 00:42 |
| pupnik_ | and the n900-size keyboards are better for thumbs | 00:43 |
| lolcat | ali1234: For ever? | 00:43 |
| ali1234 | yes, for ever | 00:43 |
| lolcat | But there will be never arm cpus | 00:43 |
| ali1234 | so? | 00:44 |
| ali1234 | how much CPu do you really need to make a phone call and run ssh? | 00:44 |
| pupnik_ | a 600 mhz n900 is more powerful than a 1.2ghz android | 00:44 |
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| lolcat | pupnik_: Explain | 00:44 |
| Venemo | pupnik_: agreed | 00:44 |
| lolcat | ali1234: HD movies! And to run webservers with more users | 00:44 |
| pupnik_ | because power is what you can DO with the device | 00:44 |
| ali1234 | HD movies on a 3.2" screen... why didn't i think of that??!?! | 00:45 |
| lolcat | Android can play spotify songs | 00:45 |
| ali1234 | so can N900 | 00:45 |
| lolcat | ali1234: Reencoding is a bitch | 00:45 |
| pupnik_ | my songs are in flac, mp3 and ogg | 00:45 |
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| lolcat | pupnik_: I have millions of songs disposable | 00:45 |
| ali1234 | i use spotify quite a lot, but on the windows version in wine, and only on desktop. because i refuse to pay for it :) | 00:46 |
| * javispedro refuses to use spotify altogether and no one got hurt | 00:46 | |
| ali1234 | i'm just fed up with the rubbish quality of music players on linux | 00:46 |
| ali1234 | they all want to index my files every 2 seconds, i need to dedicate 2 cpu cores just to that | 00:47 |
| javispedro | ==> WinAmp. | 00:47 |
| pupnik_ | ali1234: don't use indexing players - it's a stupid idea | 00:47 |
| ali1234 | yes, winamp indexes your music | 00:47 |
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| javispedro | you must be using a post 1990 version of it =) | 00:47 |
| lolcat | Indexing? | 00:48 |
| ali1234 | it's either an indexing player or some crazy command-line only junk | 00:48 |
| ali1234 | besides, i like having my music indexed | 00:48 |
| ali1234 | i like to be able to find things | 00:48 |
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| ali1234 | i just don't like that i need a supercomputer to do it | 00:48 |
| ali1234 | so i let spotify do it for me on their server | 00:48 |
| ali1234 | i like it | 00:48 |
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| javispedro | funnily enough, as we talk, rhythmbox has just decided I no longer have any music and deleted its entire library | 00:49 |
| Venemo | lol | 00:49 |
| Venemo | rythmbox works for me quite well | 00:50 |
| javispedro | leaving me only two songs: the one that was playing when he decided that, and the most ugly it could from my library with an error sign besides it. | 00:50 |
| pupnik_ | mplayer -shuffle -quiet `locate .mp3 |grep -i dubstep` | 00:50 |
| pupnik_ | ^^ ali1234 | 00:50 |
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| CosmoHill | I'm cloning your hard drive | 00:51 |
| javispedro | ah, fun, ATA errors on dmesg =) | 00:51 |
| javispedro | reboot time. | 00:51 |
| Venemo | javispedro: so it's not rythmbox's fault, is it? :P | 00:51 |
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| ali1234 | heh, serious OS failure? | 00:51 |
| ali1234 | can't really blame RB for that one... | 00:52 |
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| Venemo | ali1234: he's not online | 00:52 |
| ali1234 | i know :) | 00:53 |
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| lolcat | How is meego compared to maemo? | 00:56 |
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| thiago_home | lolcat: under which criteria? | 00:56 |
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| gabrbedd | lolcat: often. | 00:58 |
| lolcat | Like, is there any important diffrence between the two? | 00:58 |
| lolcat | Software wise | 00:58 |
| lolcat | I have a N900 | 00:59 |
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| andre__ | MeeGo is a merge of Maemo and Moblin | 00:59 |
| andre__ | Maemo was for mobile devices. MeeGo is broader. | 00:59 |
| lolcat | Is there any non-nokia devices that will run meego? | 01:00 |
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| Venemo | lolcat: yeah. most netbooks will run it | 01:01 |
| lolcat | Can't use a netbook as a phone ... | 01:02 |
| CosmoHill | MeeGoBot: FAQ is http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_Distribution_Frequently_Asked_Questions | 01:02 |
| lolcat | I would rather use a ligth weigth debian | 01:02 |
| MeeGoBot | CosmoHill: ok | 01:02 |
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| CosmoHill | MeeGoBot: Supported Processors are http://wiki.meego.com/Supported_Processors | 01:03 |
| MeeGoBot | CosmoHill: ok | 01:03 |
| CosmoHill | supported processors? | 01:03 |
| CosmoHill | -.- | 01:03 |
| CosmoHill | MeeGoBot: supported processors? | 01:03 |
| MeeGoBot | CosmoHill: Maybe Supported Processors are http://wiki.meego.com/Supported_Processors | 01:03 |
| javispedro | ali1234: harddisk survived and rhythmbox reindexed 8.6GiB in around 15 seconds. Can't really complain... | 01:04 |
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| gabrbedd | MeeGoBot: CosmoHill? | 01:04 |
| MeeGoBot | gabrbedd: Sorry, I've no idea what 'CosmoHill' might be. | 01:04 |
| gabrbedd | MeeGoBot: Me, neither. | 01:05 |
| CosmoHill | auke: don't you dare | 01:05 |
| MeeGoBot | gabrbedd: Sorry, I've no idea what 'Me, neither' might be. | 01:05 |
| gabrbedd | night all! | 01:05 |
| gabrbedd | :-) | 01:05 |
| CosmoHill | night gabrbedd | 01:05 |
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| trip900 | entertain me | 01:06 |
| * CosmoHill gives trip900 a tin foil man | 01:06 | |
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| lolcat | But like | 01:07 |
| lolcat | SHould I install Maemo? | 01:08 |
| ali1234 | if you have to ask that question, probably not | 01:08 |
| CosmoHill | crap, I misssed out Celeron | 01:08 |
| trip900 | on ur n900? yeh | 01:08 |
| lolcat | Does it have a sms/minute/mb/mms counter? | 01:09 |
| lolcat | Does it support mms? | 01:09 |
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| trip900 | people still use mms? | 01:09 |
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| CosmoHill | that reminds me, my memory card is full | 01:10 |
| trip900 | lolcat, #maemo | 01:10 |
| lolcat | trip900: With my new phone subscription I will get 500 free mms a month | 01:10 |
| CosmoHill | ouch, 192KB free | 01:11 |
| lolcat | I got a 32gb memorycard with my N900 | 01:11 |
| trip900 | lolcat, how many emails with attachments do u get? | 01:11 |
| lolcat | trip900: 500MB data transfer (500xsms/calling minutes too) | 01:12 |
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| trip900 | 500mb should get u more than enough emails | 01:13 |
| ali1234 | because emailing video files to people *always* works, right? | 01:13 |
| CosmoHill | lolcat: are you on vodafone? | 01:13 |
| lolcat | For 18USD extra I will get twice that | 01:13 |
| lolcat | So 1000 of everything | 01:13 |
| lolcat | CosmoHill: Onecall | 01:13 |
| CosmoHill | fyi, if nokia ovi suite asks you to update, say no | 01:14 |
| CosmoHill | also say no to drugs | 01:14 |
| lolcat | I do drugs | 01:14 |
| lolcat | And I update regularly | 01:14 |
| lolcat | Why shouldn't I+ | 01:14 |
| lolcat | ? | 01:14 |
| CosmoHill | I updating thinking it would improve things | 01:15 |
| ali1234 | you have to update if you have a C7 :( | 01:15 |
| ali1234 | well, if you want to use it with the SDK | 01:15 |
| ali1234 | which only runs on windows | 01:15 |
| CosmoHill | I now have a play bar that will NEVER get used | 01:15 |
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| ali1234 | what does it play? your ovi music? don't even get me started on that trainwreck | 01:16 |
| CosmoHill | I'd image it would play the one song on my phone that I use as my ring tone | 01:16 |
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| lolcat | CosmoHill: That sounds horrible | 01:17 |
| CosmoHill | also I swear my ovi suite synced texts automatically like I told it too]\ | 01:17 |
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| CosmoHill | I got curious and clicked on updates | 01:18 |
| lolcat | I guess that too is a good thing | 01:18 |
| CosmoHill | it said "I'm busy, come back later" | 01:19 |
| CosmoHill | but it also has a 6 next to the icon | 01:19 |
| lolcat | So updates are horribly bad? | 01:19 |
| CosmoHill | I made one update | 01:20 |
| CosmoHill | and I'm not going to do it again | 01:20 |
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| lolcat | You make updates? | 01:20 |
| CosmoHill | I review updates and pick the ones I want | 01:21 |
| CosmoHill | the one time I didn't review an update I ended up with a media bar | 01:21 |
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| lolcat | Too bad it wasn't a chocolate bar | 01:31 |
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| CosmoHill | oh that's weird | 01:32 |
| CosmoHill | supported processors: Celeron: 45nm or smaller | 01:33 |
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| CosmoHill | http://wiki.meego.com/Supported_Processors | 01:35 |
| CosmoHill | any suggestions or improvement? | 01:36 |
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| ali1234 | iirc there is one VIA chip which can run meego | 01:36 |
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| trip900 | oh? | 01:37 |
| CosmoHill | can you recall the chip / show me? | 01:37 |
| trip900 | via chips have ssse3 | 01:37 |
| trip900 | ? | 01:37 |
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| hirabayashitaro | who were the person who, like 2 days ago, was asking for raw pictures on n900? | 01:38 |
| ali1234 | via nano 3000 and via nano x2 | 01:38 |
| hirabayashitaro | http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/fcamera/ | 01:38 |
| ali1234 | according to wikipedia anyway | 01:38 |
| CosmoHill | hmm, via.com is a plane travel website | 01:38 |
| trip900 | via.com.tw | 01:39 |
| ali1234 | via.com.tw | 01:39 |
| pupnik_ | fantastic hirabayashitaro !!! | 01:39 |
| CosmoHill | we need to find someone with one of those processors? | 01:39 |
| ali1234 | i suppose | 01:39 |
| hirabayashitaro | pupnik_, I'm not using it, so I don't know if and how is working | 01:40 |
| pupnik_ | great community! | 01:40 |
| hirabayashitaro | pupnik_, just looking for some apps, and see that. Hope it could be useful to you ;) | 01:40 |
| pupnik_ | this "nokia has no Ecosystem" is BS! | 01:41 |
| ali1234 | iirc fcamera requires a kernel patch. good luck installing it on a operator locked phone | 01:41 |
| javispedro | like the n9! *goes to -bar to have a beer* | 01:42 |
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| trip900 | heh | 01:45 |
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| lolcat | Id buy a new Meego phone any day | 01:45 |
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| CosmoHill | hmm, it costs money tho | 01:46 |
| lolcat | Fuck food | 01:47 |
| CosmoHill | great | 01:47 |
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| lolcat | If I could get my hands on a brand new N900 like phone Id go for it | 01:47 |
| CosmoHill | now I can only think of apple pies and melons | 01:47 |
| lolcat | Hell, Id even sell my damn car | 01:47 |
| CosmoHill | if I sold my car I still wouldn't have enough for an N900 | 01:48 |
| lolcat | I migth get one and a haf | 01:48 |
| CosmoHill | I'd use the N900 a lot cos I can't drive to my friends | 01:48 |
| lolcat | But the insurance/gas/other expences would cover one a year | 01:48 |
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| CosmoHill | I like telling americans how much it would cost to top up their car if they were in the UK | 01:50 |
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| Ulf_ | CosmoHill, it must be quite confusing to pay this much for gas. Rumor has it people are so confused, they drive on the wrong side of the street | 01:59 |
| CosmoHill | that's probably just me as I do have a lassa fair approach to the side of the road I should be on | 01:59 |
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| berndhs | the streets in the UK are so narrow it doesn't make much difference what side they drive on | 02:01 |
| CosmoHill | it's fine until you meet someone bigger | 02:01 |
| CosmoHill | worse thing I did was drive past a private school at finishing time | 02:01 |
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| berndhs | its very dangerous to drive past a church on sundays | 02:02 |
| CosmoHill | what if you stop for a service? | 02:02 |
| berndhs | especially if the sermon was good, people know that God is On THeir Side | 02:02 |
| CosmoHill | I was being told about a job today | 02:03 |
| CosmoHill | "good with computer, knows html and css, preferably christian" | 02:03 |
| berndhs | maybe its an online bible job | 02:03 |
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| CosmoHill | turns out the job is actually for the christian churches in the region | 02:04 |
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| berndhs | there are prayer apps of all sorts | 02:04 |
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| berndhs | some software companies use them instead of testing I think | 02:05 |
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| CosmoHill | "dear lord, may my syntax be correct and valid"? | 02:05 |
| CosmoHill | DawnFoster: hi | 02:06 |
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| DawnFoster | hi CosmoHill - just disconnecting and reconnecting with random vpn issues | 02:06 |
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| CosmoHill | my issues are netgear and ISP related | 02:09 |
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| berndhs | ls | 02:44 |
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| ali1234 | hmmmm.... is there a fix to make this tablet UX work properly at 1024x600 or whatever the ideapad has? | 04:08 |
| ali1234 | the graphics are certainly nice and smooth | 04:08 |
| ali1234 | and i prefer the new colour scheme to the one from last year's demo | 04:09 |
| ali1234 | um.... how do you go back in menus? | 04:10 |
| ali1234 | argh, the dreaded !! | 04:10 |
| pupnik | ? | 04:11 |
| ali1234 | it means missing translation | 04:12 |
| ali1234 | is this thing supposed to have a hardware back button or something? | 04:12 |
| berndhs | try the windows button, it does things | 04:12 |
| ali1234 | oooh | 04:12 |
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| ali1234 | pity it's inaccessible when in tablet mode | 04:13 |
| berndhs | i forget what it does, but its useful | 04:13 |
| ali1234 | well it got me out of the menu i was stuck in | 04:13 |
| ali1234 | this wouldn't be half bad if i could make the fonts a bit smaller | 04:13 |
| ali1234 | feels like it's for kids with with huge writing | 04:14 |
| berndhs | maybe its for a smaller display :) | 04:14 |
| ali1234 | photo viewer is a bit whack | 04:15 |
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| ali1234 | seems like the gestures for "open menu" "pan image" and "next/previous" all conflict with each other | 04:15 |
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| ali1234 | i like this though | 04:16 |
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| berndhs | its not even alpha, so one should expect some issues | 04:18 |
| ali1234 | video player is messed up | 04:18 |
| ali1234 | can't go back to the list of videos, it just crashes | 04:18 |
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| ali1234 | in some places the labels are actually too big for the buttons. haven't seem Qt do that since... well, the last time i used KDE | 04:20 |
| berndhs | its qml stuff I think | 04:20 |
| ali1234 | it's still Qt in the end | 04:21 |
| berndhs | i haven't done anything real with qml | 04:21 |
| ali1234 | same old font renderer :) | 04:21 |
| berndhs | yeah but with qml you can do more yourself | 04:21 |
| ali1234 | no, you can't | 04:21 |
| berndhs | i dont want to design button shapes :) | 04:21 |
| ali1234 | neither do i, that's why i do not want to use QML | 04:21 |
| ali1234 | i would rather use QWidgets, then i don't have to | 04:22 |
| berndhs | designing button shapes is a task for artists, i'm an engineer | 04:22 |
| ali1234 | i can't afford to hire an artist | 04:22 |
| ali1234 | i want my buttons to look like the OS buttons please | 04:22 |
| berndhs | yes, let me have buttons that fit with the theme | 04:22 |
| ali1234 | unfortunately, when the whole OS is made in QML... there is no "theme" | 04:23 |
| berndhs | it can't work that way | 04:23 |
| ali1234 | and everything is going to end up looking different | 04:23 |
| berndhs | there must be a set of tools to make it look consistent | 04:23 |
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| ali1234 | you would think | 04:24 |
| berndhs | i think all this finger stuff is only for the next 5 years or so | 04:25 |
| berndhs | then it will go away | 04:25 |
| ali1234 | i don't, actually | 04:25 |
| ali1234 | and i like it | 04:25 |
| berndhs | input bandwidth is too low | 04:25 |
| ali1234 | you know the new HTC tablet comes with a capacitive pen? they must have listened to all the people complaining about lack of stylus | 04:25 |
| berndhs | perhaps :) | 04:25 |
| ali1234 | i can type faster on the ideapad swype keyboard than i can on the N900 hw keyboard | 04:26 |
| berndhs | what I mean is, there is only so much a human can "say" with 2 fingers | 04:26 |
| ali1234 | and i'm not even using "swyping" | 04:26 |
| ali1234 | i'm actually touchtyping on it with two hands | 04:26 |
| berndhs | maybe you have small hands :) | 04:26 |
| ali1234 | maybe | 04:26 |
| ali1234 | maybe humans will evolve with tiny hands :) | 04:26 |
| berndhs | but if you look how much input people provide, say on a bicycle | 04:27 |
| berndhs | with hands and feet, old decrepit people | 04:27 |
| berndhs | that's way more bandwidth than 2 fingers can do | 04:27 |
| ali1234 | so you want a phone with handlebars? i don't get it | 04:27 |
| berndhs | i'm saying the amount of input you can provide with 2 fingers is not enough | 04:28 |
| berndhs | you need gestures, like pointing at things in a room | 04:28 |
| berndhs | and showing shapes like people do with their hands | 04:28 |
| berndhs | and much more we haven't though about | 04:29 |
| ali1234 | ah, so you think something better will come along? ok fair enough, probably | 04:29 |
| berndhs | right | 04:29 |
| ali1234 | i think it will take lnger than 5 years though | 04:29 |
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| berndhs | maybe 6 or 7, but not 10 | 04:29 |
| berndhs | if all you need for hardware is cameras, it will come faster | 04:30 |
| ali1234 | you need cameras that can float around the person on anti-gravity :) | 04:31 |
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| ali1234 | or else it isn't mobile | 04:31 |
| ali1234 | a few cameras in the front of the device isn't enough | 04:31 |
| berndhs | i'm not sure what shape the device should be | 04:32 |
| berndhs | maybe a phone is the wrong shape | 04:32 |
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| berndhs | we'll see | 04:34 |
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| raster | the keyboard has been with us for a long time | 04:38 |
| raster | it just wont die | 04:38 |
| raster | its not going away any time soon | 04:38 |
| raster | even the next 10 years will still see the keyboard be king | 04:38 |
| berndhs | yes for lots of things, anything resembling "work" :) | 04:39 |
| raster | phones included | 04:39 |
| raster | people are familiar with a keyboard | 04:39 |
| raster | the fact that there are a myriad of other input methods for such devices out there | 04:40 |
| raster | tonens fo research projects | 04:40 |
| berndhs | right for people who do things with their phones other than entertainment stuff | 04:40 |
| raster | many "proving" that its more efficient to do it another way | 04:40 |
| raster | fact is | 04:40 |
| raster | humans are not willing to re-learn something | 04:40 |
| raster | they want the familiar | 04:40 |
| raster | a miniaturised qwerty keyboard is familiar | 04:40 |
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| raster | even if its less efficient | 04:40 |
| raster | nothing else has taken off | 04:41 |
| raster | the closest was the 69 numberpad mumbo | 04:41 |
| berndhs | phones are too small to make decent portable computers | 04:41 |
| raster | buty as of the smartphone world - thats now taking a back-seat again to qwerty | 04:41 |
| raster | doesnt matter | 04:42 |
| raster | you can say that all you like | 04:42 |
| ali1234 | can't get real work done on anything less than a 24" screen these days, what with all the graphical bling that all operating systems insist on having | 04:42 |
| raster | HUMANS - the general use3rbase wants familiar | 04:42 |
| berndhs | if you can get past the display size, then phones are ok | 04:42 |
| raster | the outliers and "nerds" may use weird inputs | 04:42 |
| raster | but the general populace wont | 04:42 |
| berndhs | projected display or folding display, something like that | 04:42 |
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| raster | frankly what motorola have shown with atrix is pretty much where the future is imho | 04:43 |
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| ali1234 | folding display just makes me think of a guy trying to fold a map in wind and ending up screwing it into a big ball | 04:43 |
| raster | when out and about you have your mini phone and mini kbd | 04:43 |
| raster | u cant type serious amounts of text | 04:43 |
| raster | but u can get things done | 04:43 |
| ali1234 | besides, won't the display have creases in it? that's gonna suck | 04:43 |
| raster | when u need to do serious work - use the laptop or desktop dock | 04:43 |
| raster | and you get a biggeror full sized keyboard and screen | 04:43 |
| berndhs | ali1234: ah details, you can get past that | 04:44 |
| ali1234 | and projectors are not powerful enough | 04:44 |
| berndhs | well, not now | 04:44 |
| ali1234 | either the picture is smaller than the phone screen, or you have to be in a dark room | 04:44 |
| ali1234 | or the bulb inside it is generating enough heat to burn your hand | 04:44 |
| berndhs | i'm thinking about future technology, not what is sold now :) | 04:44 |
| berndhs | smart phones now are entertainment devices with rudimentary phone capacity | 04:45 |
| ali1234 | well in the future we'll have magical computers that are controlled telepathically | 04:45 |
| ali1234 | no need for interfaces, it will just be a small black cube | 04:45 |
| berndhs | ah, you're too conservative at heart :) | 04:46 |
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| berndhs | projection onto the retina maybe | 04:46 |
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| ali1234 | i can see a computer where you just talk to it and tell it what you want happening inside 10 years | 04:46 |
| ali1234 | and then another 10 years to productize it | 04:47 |
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| berndhs | yes that too, except people don't know what they want | 04:47 |
| ali1234 | sure they do | 04:47 |
| ali1234 | "computer, what are my friends up to?" | 04:47 |
| berndhs | that's just the entertainment parts | 04:47 |
| berndhs | those you can do with low bandwidth input, sure | 04:48 |
| ali1234 | speech isn't low bandwidth | 04:48 |
| berndhs | in terms of what information gets transferred it is | 04:48 |
| ali1234 | i mean proper AI, not speech to text | 04:48 |
| berndhs | not in terms of processing | 04:48 |
| ali1234 | you know, like on star trek | 04:48 |
| ali1234 | (TNG) | 04:48 |
| berndhs | yeah but nobody has any clue how to do proper AI | 04:49 |
| berndhs | nobody has any idea how to do self-aware stuff | 04:49 |
| ali1234 | i don't think that is a requirement | 04:51 |
| berndhs | true, for many things insect-like stuff is good enough | 04:51 |
| ali1234 | we can do better than that | 04:52 |
| berndhs | well, not currently | 04:52 |
| berndhs | but its promising | 04:52 |
| ali1234 | good AI doesn't have to be hard AI | 04:52 |
| berndhs | for mechanical things like user interface, no it doesn't | 04:53 |
| berndhs | i'm just saying its not "proper" AI | 04:53 |
| ali1234 | well, by proper, i didn't mean hard AI, just good AI, good enough that it understands how to do anything you can do with a computer today, and do it for you | 04:54 |
| berndhs | right | 04:54 |
| berndhs | I think all this input stuff needs a theoretical foundation, something more formal than what we have now | 04:55 |
| berndhs | or maybe someone made it while I wasn't looking :) | 04:56 |
| ali1234 | what would that be like? | 04:56 |
| berndhs | i'm not sure, something like formal languages, that can quantify things | 04:57 |
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| berndhs | so you can compare input technologies | 04:57 |
| ali1234 | like HID? | 04:58 |
| ali1234 | the USB HID spec is insane | 04:58 |
| ali1234 | it defines every kind of input device you can imagine, down to a full body montion capture suit | 04:58 |
| berndhs | no I mean more theoretical | 04:58 |
| ali1234 | it has control bits for "left toe" for example | 04:58 |
| ali1234 | "left little toe" | 04:59 |
| berndhs | more abstract | 04:59 |
| berndhs | like grammars and those things, turing machines, graph theory | 05:01 |
| berndhs | at that level | 05:01 |
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| ali1234 | how would it be used? | 05:04 |
| ali1234 | to prove that one input device is better than another? | 05:04 |
| berndhs | yes that's one way | 05:04 |
| ali1234 | that's totally subjective :) | 05:04 |
| berndhs | to compare | 05:04 |
| berndhs | right, currently it is subjective | 05:05 |
| berndhs | that's bad | 05:05 |
| berndhs | if you have more formal methods, it becomes less subjective | 05:05 |
| berndhs | and it could be used to generate interfaces, interpret input | 05:05 |
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| berndhs | same goals as languages now for text, for protocols | 05:06 |
| berndhs | and same goals as mathematics for hardware design | 05:06 |
| ali1234 | all of those other things do not try to model human behaviour | 05:06 |
| berndhs | i mean the input methodology | 05:07 |
| berndhs | to measure and compare and generate thihngs | 05:07 |
| berndhs | is would help a lot to formally state what it is the interface is doing | 05:08 |
| berndhs | at least, more formally than now | 05:08 |
| berndhs | what we do now is alchemy :) | 05:09 |
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| khertan | Morning | 10:06 |
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| khertan | Is there any page in the wiki with the status of the meego images | 10:09 |
| khertan | ? | 10:09 |
| khertan | for n900 | 10:09 |
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| villev | Just saw on twitter: http://www.meegocontinues.org/ | 10:21 |
| Stskeeps | .. by who? | 10:22 |
| mihero | same guy who did the planb?:) | 10:23 |
| villev | tweet was here http://twitter.com/geragray | 10:24 |
| thiago | plan c better | 10:24 |
| X-Fade | I wonder why that just can't happen at meego.com, but hey :) | 10:24 |
| villev | I guess the novel angle is req for venture capitalists | 10:24 |
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| villev | e.g. private business | 10:24 |
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| Lynoure | Intel has multiple times signalled wanting to keep MeeGoing | 10:25 |
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| * thiago sends them an email | 10:25 | |
| villev | perhaps this is about phones? | 10:25 |
| Lynoure | At least if the news in public media are to be trusted. | 10:25 |
| Stskeeps | Lynoure: yeah, and meego.com imad's post | 10:25 |
| villev | well - Intel is looking for people willing to do a phone. These guys may be willing to do phone(s) | 10:26 |
| X-Fade | villev: My bet is they want Nokia to do phones with MeeGo :) | 10:27 |
| thiago | it's not very easy | 10:27 |
| thiago | from Trolltech's experience with the Greenphone: hardware is hard | 10:27 |
| villev | hardware is becoming less hard I guess, esp. if you can reuse android hw adaptation | 10:27 |
| * Stskeeps is starting to believe a bit in the idea of disruptive technologies as a market where meego can really do a difference too | 10:28 | |
| X-Fade | Well, just look at N900 with maemo and the first tech preview of meego on it :) | 10:28 |
| Bostik | I have to agree; coworker treasures his chipset and cpu errata tomes | 10:28 |
| Bostik | not sheets, *tomes* | 10:28 |
| villev | and, you can recruit hardware people | 10:28 |
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| X-Fade | It makes you appreciate the work that has gone into powermanagement :) | 10:28 |
| villev | nobody can start from scratch I figure | 10:28 |
| villev | pepsodent is making android handset these days I imagine | 10:29 |
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| Stskeeps | the main challenge is getting basic hardware adaptations from ARM SoC vendors into meego | 10:29 |
| Stskeeps | after that, productization is easier | 10:29 |
| villev | Stskeeps: but if you just use Android adaptation? | 10:30 |
| Stskeeps | villev: android adaptation can often be used but the problem is the userland stuff | 10:30 |
| Stskeeps | such as GLESv2/EGL, modem stuff, etc.. | 10:30 |
| villev | in theory - what would happen if you used android interfaces for graphics? | 10:31 |
| Stskeeps | villev: it's tied to bionic libc and often doesn't support x11 | 10:31 |
| villev | and just supporting lighthouse instead of full X | 10:31 |
| Stskeeps | villev: i do wonder if wayland + those things would be ok.. | 10:31 |
| villev | right, lighthouse + *perhaps* wayland | 10:32 |
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| pupnik | i don't think many people do remote-X on their phones | 10:32 |
| villev | this may be something more ambitious than "next spring", but... | 10:32 |
| Stskeeps | i'm still wondering if we need to adapt armv5/armv6+vfp ports in meego again though | 10:33 |
| Stskeeps | or if the road ahead is armv7 only | 10:33 |
| villev | if it allows for cheap future iterations of meego... | 10:33 |
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| villev | if there was a port of wayland over android hw adaptation, that should be the trickiest part of hw adaptation already done, right? | 10:34 |
| Stskeeps | meego's nice in the way that you really just need to drop in a kernel and various hardware adaptation specific things, + the big one being a GLESv2/EGL impl | 10:35 |
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| Stskeeps | i mean, while it was a proof of concept, meego did run without hassle on N810 :P | 10:35 |
| Stskeeps | N810 had MeeGo about 12 hours after N900 had it. | 10:35 |
| villev | anrdoid phone ports seem to be easy to do as well, sans gl | 10:36 |
| Stskeeps | i liked N8's approach of a armv6 chip and then a really good broadcom gfx chip | 10:37 |
| thiago | noooooo | 10:37 |
| villev | thiago: goom terror? ;-) | 10:38 |
| thiago | http://nooooooooooooooo.com/ | 10:38 |
| Stskeeps | so armv7 and up, i see? ;) | 10:38 |
| thiago | yeah | 10:39 |
| thiago | neon, hard fp, and good GL drivers | 10:39 |
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| Stskeeps | i wonder if we're restricting ourselves by targetting armv7-a only as well, don't know if there's any value in cortex-r or cortex-m | 10:41 |
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| pupnik | Stskeeps: are there any phones out now or soon that you think will be good matches for MeeGo? | 10:43 |
| pupnik | (with openGles drivers) | 10:43 |
| Stskeeps | pupnik: i suppose palm pre omap36* if not locked down wouldn't be a bad choice | 10:44 |
| pupnik | think there will be SGX drivers for the LG omap4 phone? | 10:44 |
| Stskeeps | pupnik: supposedly omap4 sgx drivers is in works/was published | 10:45 |
| Stskeeps | i don't actually know how hackable LG phones are | 10:45 |
| pupnik | i don't think many people do | 10:45 |
| pupnik | but it has android | 10:45 |
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| pupnik | so there's at least a basis for linux drivers | 10:45 |
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| pupnik | do you know anything about the progress on the archos a70 port? | 10:46 |
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| Stskeeps | everyone on omap is having trouble with the MTF + sgx font issue | 10:47 |
| thiago | Stskeeps: cortex-r might be interesting | 10:47 |
| thiago | cortex-m is a whole different beast | 10:47 |
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| Stskeeps | thiago: i could do a full rebuild of meego hardfp for armv7-r if there's interest in a quick view of how bad it looks | 10:49 |
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| Stskeeps | should take a day or so to rebuild | 10:49 |
| niala1 | ning | 10:49 |
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| thiago | Stskeeps: I think all ARM manuals list as "ARMv7-AR", so it might not need a rebuild | 10:51 |
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| Stskeeps | hm, maybe | 10:51 |
| thiago | but let's not waste CPU power until we need to | 10:51 |
| Stskeeps | k | 10:51 |
| thiago | anyway, my point was also that the broadcom solution isn't very good | 10:51 |
| thiago | the N8 has severe video memory limitations | 10:51 |
| thiago | some of them caused by Symbian (such as reserving 1 MB for the "out of memory" dialog box) | 10:51 |
| thiago | most caused by the crappy VG/GL driver | 10:52 |
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| thiago | if you load the camera app, it takes 28 MB of the 32 of video RAM | 10:52 |
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| pupnik | perhaps it's not so wrong to end-of-life the symbian development | 10:53 |
| thiago | pupnik: you think? :-) | 10:53 |
| thiago | anyway, the new HW coming out for Symbian isn't bad. If we can run MeeGo on it, it would be great. | 10:53 |
| pupnik | um. the E7? arm1136? | 10:53 |
| thiago | no | 10:54 |
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| thiago | E7/C6/C7 are the same HW as the N8 | 10:54 |
| pupnik | oh next ones... | 10:54 |
| thiago | I meant the newer ones, the ones not released | 10:54 |
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| khertan | the n9 :) | 10:54 |
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| pupnik | i would sell my bone-marrow for a meego phone that looked like the E7 | 10:54 |
| thiago | that's not symbian (and there's no device announced as N9, yadda yadda yadda) | 10:54 |
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| khertan | thiago, you said next one the n8, n8 + 1 = n9 ;) | 10:55 |
| thiago | khertan: you forgot the extra two digits | 10:55 |
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| thiago | the C6 I meant is the C6-01, for example | 10:55 |
| khertan | thiago, indeed | 10:55 |
| * thiago has an N9-00, minus the dash | 10:55 | |
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| * alterego has 2x :P | 10:56 | |
| thiago | but, in the principle of dogfooding, I keep it on my desk during the day | 10:56 |
| thiago | I use the prototype during the day :-) | 10:57 |
| pupnik | has anyone tried meego on the openpandora? :) | 10:57 |
| Stskeeps | pupnik: afaik, suffers from the same font problem | 10:57 |
| khertan | hum ... didn't see difference between n8 and e7 look like the same | 10:57 |
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| pupnik | the e7 has a keyboard | 10:58 |
| khertan | pupnik, not the n8 ? | 10:58 |
| pupnik | n8 has no keyboard | 10:58 |
| khertan | indeed so i prefer e7 too ;) | 10:58 |
| thiago | hardware keyboard, he means | 10:58 |
| pupnik | n8 has the great camera | 10:59 |
| khertan | thiago, software keyboard isn't a keyboard | 10:59 |
| thiago | the n8 is "classic candybar"; the e7 is an "n97-style slide-out keyboard" | 10:59 |
| khertan | pupnik, but without keyboard it s useless | 10:59 |
| khertan | thiago, is it useable ? the n97 style ? | 10:59 |
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| thiago | I mean tilting-up | 10:59 |
| thiago | not just slide-out | 10:59 |
| thiago | the device I'm holding has xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and the camera is xx MP :-P | 11:00 |
| thiago | (one of the x might be a zero) | 11:00 |
| khertan | thiago, yep ? but tilting-up is it useable ? | 11:00 |
| thiago | I prefer tilting up than simple slide-out like the N900 | 11:01 |
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| niala1 | thiago: ahhhhhh the suspense is horrible to live | 11:01 |
| thiago | for example, for watching a video or for typing with more fingers than just your thumbs | 11:01 |
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| pupnik | maybe I can unofficially use the n900 sgx drivers on the openpandora / archos a70 | 11:02 |
| pupnik | https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=5616 | 11:02 |
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| pupnik | good luck fahti on finding the problem | 11:02 |
| Stskeeps | pupnik: worst part is that we have a really small testcase now - so it should be possible to figure out the issue | 11:03 |
| pupnik | https://build.pub.meego.com/package/view_file?file=arm-omap-texture.patch&package=qt-omap&project=home:obko << this doesn't fix it? | 11:04 |
| Stskeeps | no, we tried | 11:04 |
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| pupnik | Stskeeps: there's nobody at nokia who knows why the nokia sgx driver doesn't show this problem? | 11:08 |
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| Stskeeps | pupnik: i have a hunch on what's amatter but it's difficult to fix this in mainstream sgx if we don't have a reason why it happens lower down | 11:09 |
| pupnik | oh since there are a lot of differences... | 11:09 |
| pupnik | i conclude | 11:09 |
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| alterego | Does MeeGo have something like gvfs? | 11:21 |
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| Stskeeps | afaik | 11:21 |
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| alterego | I was thinking the other day, that what I'd like is a private, encrypted area that you could store photos and docs that you need to unlock them to view them in the photos/whatever app. | 11:23 |
| Stskeeps | ah, the porn area.. | 11:24 |
| alterego | Mainly because I took some embarrassing photos the other day and I was thinking about how I have a tendency to demo my device to other people ;) | 11:24 |
| alterego | Yeah, so I'm wondering about strategies to implement such a facility and integrate it into the UX properly. | 11:24 |
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| Robot101 | alterego: check out ecryptfs? it's a userland based system to encrypt subdirectories - uses the normal filesystem underneath, but needs a password to unlock a key to mount the directory | 11:27 |
| chouchoune | maybe making an app dedicated to that, which would encrypt data in a dedicated folder ? ;) | 11:27 |
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| chouchoune | - ;) | 11:27 |
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| alterego | Well, I was thinking of maybe a mirrored, private home, which could get mounted ontop of the normal home when enabled. | 11:28 |
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| arfoll | alterego, LUKS partition, you could at boot choose to enter the password and use the /home that is encrypted or not (Ctrl+C at password prompt) and mount the normal home | 11:29 |
| chouchoune | alterego: yes but you would loose your "non-encrypted" home datas when you mount the encrypted one | 11:29 |
| alterego | chouchoune: neah, not with that merged mounting thingy .. | 11:30 |
| kavacha | alterego, there is also unionfs | 11:30 |
| alterego | Yeah, that's it unionfs :) | 11:30 |
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| * arfoll thinks unionfs looks like the coolest thing discovered this week | 11:30 | |
| alterego | Heh | 11:31 |
| lbt | arfoll: is it released? (again) | 11:31 |
| Robot101 | alterego: that mirrored private home thing you describe - that's what ecryptfs is /for/ :P | 11:31 |
| arfoll | lbt, what is released? | 11:32 |
| alterego | Anyway, so what I'd invisage is the ability to easily unlock the privated area, which would mount it ala unionfs over home, then to write to the private area it's mounted r/w, under $HOME/Private, or something. | 11:32 |
| Robot101 | alterego: it's done already - you just need to put some UI on the tools - on MeeGo Netbook and Ubuntu etc ecryptfs is integrated with PAM so it mounts/unlocks your encrypted ~ when you log in | 11:32 |
| lbt | Robot101: true - does it act like a removable device? | 11:32 |
| lbt | Robot101: unionfs | 11:32 |
| Robot101 | what the hell is this unionfs stuff? this is irrelevant. ecryptfs is *EXACTLY WHAT YOU DESCRIBE* | 11:32 |
| alterego | Robot101: interesting, I'll look into it :) | 11:32 |
| Robot101 | (I know what unionfs is actually, don't tell me :P) | 11:33 |
| lbt | unionfs is 'interesting' ... that's all :) | 11:33 |
| * lbt has no need for pornfs | 11:33 | |
| Robot101 | is "not upstream" ;) | 11:33 |
| lbt | he has an understanding wife ;) | 11:33 |
| alterego | But I want to only "mount" it when required, and have it auto unmount after 5mins or some configured interval. | 11:33 |
| arfoll | understanding or doesn't know her way around your fs? | 11:33 |
| lbt | he *is* however visiting USA so may need a dhsfs | 11:33 |
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| lbt | arfoll: she's practically my sysadmin ... what's the point | 11:34 |
| alterego | Well, this isn't just for porn, this should be an enterprise level security system :) | 11:34 |
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| lbt | (kidding) | 11:34 |
| alterego | I have a lot of sensitive info I carry around with me. | 11:34 |
| arfoll | ehehe we all believe you | 11:35 |
| alterego | :P | 11:35 |
| lbt | I'd like to see luks in meego | 11:35 |
| lbt | if it's not there | 11:35 |
| niala_ | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5sfI9YuIc0&feature=related | 11:35 |
| niala_ | woops sorry wron,g tab | 11:35 |
| * lbt is too focussed on infra stuff .... although that may change in the near future ;) | 11:35 | |
| lbt | niala_: aww..... now we *have* to click | 11:36 |
| arfoll | lbt, i think it is, you just need to install the packages | 11:36 |
| alterego | Heh | 11:36 |
| niala_ | sorry sorry sorry 1000x | 11:36 |
| Robot101 | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0 | 11:36 |
| Robot101 | oops, wrong window too | 11:37 |
| alterego | Okay, now I'm interested :D | 11:37 |
| arfoll | you just need to install the cryptsetup packages, but it would be nice if they enabled more crypto modules in the kernel | 11:37 |
| lbt | Robot101: goddam it .... that was my first time! | 11:37 |
| Robot101 | lbt: :D come on you were asking for it | 11:38 |
| lbt | :P | 11:39 |
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| pupnik | stop pasting videos banned in germany | 11:43 |
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| pupnik | :) | 11:44 |
| alterego | Heh | 11:45 |
| niala_ | pupnik, yes if internet continue like that we will have open OS and closed web :) | 11:45 |
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| slaine | raster: you been busy on Bada 2.0 then ? | 12:06 |
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| jbos | hey guys i wonder, this new intel pre alpha tablet seems to use some special made qml components | 12:15 |
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| Stskeeps | mm? | 12:15 |
| jbos | can i use them too? | 12:15 |
| Stskeeps | when they're released, i hope so | 12:15 |
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| jbos | i got a mail that i can now deploy on appup | 12:15 |
| jbos | but how much sense it makes to start special intel meego devel. without directly beeing able to adopt intel meego UX | 12:16 |
| jbos | :) | 12:16 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 12:17 |
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| Stskeeps | good question, i don't know :) i'm waiting for source myself | 12:17 |
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| jbos | okidoki :D | 12:17 |
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| jbos | one day or another more shouldn't be the end of the world | 12:17 |
| jbos | did we get further on a team obs section? | 12:18 |
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| jbos | wasn't able yet to go through all resources around, :( | 12:19 |
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| nedrichards | jbos: if we didn't want you to use the components at some point or another we wouldn't have made a design guide http://appdeveloper.intel.com/en-us/article/download-tablet-ui-ux-guidelines-license-agreement ;-) | 12:25 |
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| jbos | nice :D | 12:26 |
| jbos | is code already around / how to use them? | 12:27 |
| jbos | or is this "to be released asap" | 12:27 |
| alterego | Heh | 12:27 |
| Stskeeps | nedrichards: random comment, but mentioning Atom exclusively in a "MeeGo" document is a bit odd :) | 12:28 |
| Stskeeps | document looks great though, helps describe things | 12:29 |
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| nedrichards | jbos: I haven't looked at the tablet sdk actually, but i would imagine there is or will be stuff there. as for open sourcing stuff, you'd have to talk to the various meego boards - either way is not my call ;-) | 12:30 |
| raster | slaine: working on efl stuff. bada 2 - never heard of such a thing :) | 12:30 |
| arfoll | nedrichards, I'll just mention the document doesn't follow the meego style guide? | 12:30 |
| mikhas | heya jbos | 12:31 |
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| * slaine waves to nedrichards | 12:31 | |
| nedrichards | arfoll: which bits in particular? I can pass feedback on - I wrote some of the content but I didn't design or layout the doc. | 12:32 |
| nedrichards | slaine: ohai | 12:32 |
| arfoll | nedrichards, see the color and the exclusion zones the logos are off : http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_Style_Guide | 12:32 |
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| arfoll | just for the record i think the restrictions are silly, but i'd like someone else to realise and change them | 12:33 |
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| nedrichards | arfoll: I shall pass on and get back to you if I hear anything | 12:34 |
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| arfoll | nedrichards, cheers - theres a thread in the meego-community about it would be great if you could post any response in there | 12:35 |
| nedrichards | arfoll: about the design guides as a whole or about this document? | 12:35 |
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| jbos | nedrichards this doc is great | 12:36 |
| arfoll | nedrichards, about the design (especially the logo)- the document seems very good and useful | 12:36 |
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| nedrichards | arfoll: ah yes, I know of that thread | 12:36 |
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| jbos | nedrichards, only thing is that for code there is nothing around yet. but well lets see :) | 12:37 |
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| jophish_ | Hi all | 12:46 |
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| jophish_ | Is there a feature list anywhere for the n900 version of meego? | 12:47 |
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| mikhas | jbos, perhaps you can look at https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13678 | 12:58 |
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| niala_ | question: i have azerty on 2 pc. netbook on meego, fedora on desktop. I use synegys. the problem is: when i type from netbook keyboard to fedora desktop it's like a qwerty keyborad... why ? | 13:07 |
| andre__ | how do you "type from netbook keyboard to fedora desktop"? | 13:08 |
| niala_ | with synergys and synergyc | 13:08 |
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| niala_ | mouse and keyboard are shared, works just qwerty/azeerty issues | 13:09 |
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| bash | I joined only to say that I am trying Meego Netbook 1.1 and it's AMAZING | 13:12 |
| CosmoHill | yay | 13:12 |
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| niala_ | andre__, any idea ? | 13:12 |
| bash | really, I tried it on my N900 but the netbook version is really amazing! :O I love it | 13:13 |
| bash | sorry for spam! and thank you for your work :) | 13:13 |
| CosmoHill | it's not spam, it's complements | 13:13 |
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| bash | can I build and install the meego interface on my distro> | 13:14 |
| bash | ? | 13:14 |
| CosmoHill | niala_: it could be the mapping | 13:15 |
| CosmoHill | bash: I believe you can but you have to de-brand it | 13:15 |
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| CosmoHill | like CentOS or Iceweasel | 13:15 |
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| bash | understand | 13:16 |
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| bash | CosmoHill: I won't reboot xD | 13:16 |
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| niala_ | CosmoHill, i suppose too.. | 13:16 |
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| CosmoHill | niala_: if you plug a keyboard directly into them does it come out the way you want? | 13:17 |
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| niala_ | yes sure | 13:17 |
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| niala_ | I've noticed when i do a .ks file on fedora and i use them on meego. i have same issue ... ascii blablabla | 13:18 |
| jonnor | X-Fade: hey. Could I have access to Meego Core OBS? I'm on the Meego inputmethods team. Username: jonnor | 13:18 |
| Stskeeps | jonnor: x-fade and lbt only handles on build.pub.meego.com - file on bugs.meego.com -> community infrastructure -> build service -> build service accounts | 13:19 |
| jonnor | Stskeeps: ah, okey. Thanks! | 13:20 |
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| jbos | mikhas, Yes, well current firefox mobile version is pretty old (iirc) we got some hard reset on our team... and mozilla is not really interessted in getting on meego | 13:59 |
| jbos | so we still get patches upstream | 13:59 |
| jbos | but it all takes time | 13:59 |
| jbos | (reviews on mozilla upstream are extremly exhausting) | 13:59 |
| jbos | no fun at all... | 13:59 |
| jbos | :D | 13:59 |
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| jbos | we got some regressions when we lately kick all meego touch dependencies out of firefox | 14:00 |
| jbos | and those we concentrating on | 14:00 |
| jbos | (rotation, language...) | 14:00 |
| jbos | also on perfect openGL speed | 14:01 |
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| jbos | (we have around 30 fps flash video and nearly constant 60 fps on i.e. lemonde.fr | 14:01 |
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| jbos | which have some heavy useage of flash | 14:01 |
| jbos | (of course on some handset device) | 14:02 |
| jbos | also full weg-gl and webm support coming :D | 14:02 |
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| jbos | h264 was wanted by nokia, (of course) ... but mozilla does not like that idea to much ;) | 14:03 |
| jbos | mikhas, for reporting bugs, we dont care about bugs.meego.com - we have basically 3 bugzillas to play with | 14:04 |
| jbos | if you really want to get things done use bugzilla.mozilla.org | 14:04 |
| jbos | :D | 14:04 |
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| arfoll | lbt, any ideas on https://build.pub.meego.com/package/live_build_log?arch=i586&package=tint2&project=home%3Aarfoll%3Autils&repository=meego_1.1_core | 14:09 |
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| lbt | arfoll: no, sorry. I don't do enough actual building these days. X-Fade ? | 14:13 |
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| lbt | "error: Package already exists: %package debuginfo " is the error in case anyone knows | 14:14 |
| Stskeeps | 1.1 problem | 14:14 |
| arfoll | i think it's somethign to do with the %install macro | 14:14 |
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| arfoll | Stskeeps, what do you mean? I could try see if it builds against current | 14:15 |
| Stskeeps | there was a macros issue in 1.1, i think | 14:15 |
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| jophish_ | Alrighty, I'm booting into meego. from the mmc card, and It looks fantastic! | 14:17 |
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| jophish_ | The instructions here http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Install/Dual_Boot seem to be a little out of date though | 14:17 |
| arfoll | jophish_, your IP is a joke right? | 14:18 |
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| jophish_ | arfoll: hmm? | 14:18 |
| Stskeeps | jophish_: which parts are missing? | 14:18 |
| arfoll | jophish_ : quassel@nat/microsoft/x-xmkaanfmqhyqjcwn | 14:18 |
| Stskeeps | arfoll: keep in mind there's also microsoft R&D people :) let's keep it civil here | 14:18 |
| jophish_ | Stskeeps: the link to the meego image is no longer functional | 14:19 |
| Stskeeps | jophish_: ah | 14:19 |
| * Stskeeps looks | 14:19 | |
| jophish_ | oh whoops, forgot I'm at work | 14:19 |
| * arfoll smiles | 14:19 | |
| jophish_ | I am using the image from here: http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/trunk/1.1.90.3.20110215.10/handset/images/meego-handset-armv7l-n900/ | 14:19 |
| CosmoHill | jophish_: are you in redmond? | 14:19 |
| arfoll | Stskeeps, lbt, removing the debuginfo flag from the build fixed it :-) | 14:19 |
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| jophish_ | CosmoHill: nah, I'm at Lionhead studios in the UK | 14:19 |
| CosmoHill | sweet | 14:20 |
| CosmoHill | I was gonna ask if you knew my friends who work at MS but you're in the wrong country | 14:20 |
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| jophish_ | CosmoHill: It's a bit early in the morning in Redmond :) | 14:22 |
| CosmoHill | I like this guy already | 14:22 |
| lbt | jophish_: Lionhead ? | 14:22 |
| jophish_ | A First party game studio | 14:23 |
| Stskeeps | jophish_: ok, odd, the tablets-dev url? | 14:23 |
| jophish_ | Stskeeps: That's right | 14:24 |
| lbt | jophish_: ah - thinking about the future now eh ? :D | 14:24 |
| Stskeeps | jophish_: odd, worked for me | 14:24 |
| jophish_ | How strange.. I'll try again | 14:24 |
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| jophish_ | hmm, I can't seem to access any of the files there | 14:26 |
| Stskeeps | maybe i should recheck that | 14:26 |
| jophish_ | Stskeeps: I can grab images from here: http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/ | 14:27 |
| lbt | Stskeeps: you've seen the recent repo reorg ? | 14:27 |
| khertan | meego handset is really strange | 14:27 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: yes | 14:27 |
| khertan | i didn't understand the ui | 14:27 |
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| khertan | http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/1.1.90/1.1.90.3.20110215.10/handset/images/meego-handset-armv7l-n900/ << it s the last release isn't it ? | 14:28 |
| sivang | khertan: me neither | 14:28 |
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| jophish_ | khertan: excellent, that's the one I'm using at the moment | 14:28 |
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| sivang | khertan: but it is getting there, hopefully the pinretrail UX components would help, it'd be great with them | 14:28 |
| khertan | jophish_, hum ... but settings isn't working | 14:29 |
| khertan | how to setup wifi to be able to ssh on it | 14:30 |
| Stskeeps | khertan: qa-reports.meego.com will tell you that too | 14:30 |
| khertan | Stskeeps, oh thx for the link Stskeeps | 14:30 |
| Stskeeps | khertan: usb networking should work | 14:30 |
| khertan | exactly what i was looking for | 14:30 |
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| sivang | khertan: my hunch is the tethering works and is setup with madde ip's | 14:37 |
| sivang | khertan: so just set up the ubuntu side and your set to go | 14:37 |
| jophish_ | Is there a stable n900 build, or is it all considered unstable at the moment? | 14:38 |
| Stskeeps | jophish_: pretty much .. the tablets-dev one is .. ok, but not very fancy | 14:38 |
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| jophish_ | Stskeeps: the one from 26 October? | 14:39 |
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| Stskeeps | yeah | 14:40 |
| Stskeeps | we are in 6 month development cycles so | 14:40 |
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| arfoll | in cmake how do you use the enable options? is it just --enable-option ? | 14:42 |
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| bash` | hi all, can I install meego into the root of my N900? | 14:43 |
| jophish_ | Ok, thanks, I think I'll use the image from october, the latest seems to be a little on the rough side. Unless there is a "best of both worlds" option. | 14:43 |
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| Tuju | is meego fully opensource? (compared to the n700, which imo contained proprietary sw components) | 14:49 |
| LjL | i believe MeeGo itself is fully opensource, but some drivers used in actual phones are closed | 14:50 |
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| LjL | but don't quote me on that | 14:50 |
| Tuju | i once saw a component map for n700 which had all licenses collected. it would be very helpful with meego too. | 14:51 |
| Stskeeps | Tuju: meego.com is a open platform, the platform doesn't rely on closed binaries, but the hardware adaptations may | 14:51 |
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| Tuju | ack. I think a good meter for openess is that can you install own version of OS into system - like in PC you can. | 14:52 |
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| Tuju | i never understood the logic behind it - if you get the money from hardware, does it matter what it runs? | 14:53 |
| lindi- | Tuju: openess of hardware you mean? | 14:53 |
| Tuju | lindi-: yes. | 14:54 |
| ali1234 | it's not all about openness you know | 14:54 |
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| ali1234 | PC BIOS is a blessing and a curse | 14:55 |
| Tuju | for lot of developers it is. | 14:55 |
| lindi- | Tuju: I think the catch is exactly that most vendors don't get the money from the hardware alone | 14:55 |
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| Tuju | lindi-: that would be the only explanation. Then again, me or anyone who i know, don't pay anything else than hardware and what comes along with it. | 14:55 |
| rmt2 | lindi-, Tuju, Indeed .. it would be irresponsible to shareholders if a public company didn't try to exploit every possible niche for profit. | 14:56 |
| ali1234 | the bios is old and annoying to use, but just look at the state of the arm kernel | 14:56 |
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| tvainio | it's also about liability issues | 14:56 |
| lindi- | Tuju: you might want to think that but your money will be used to cover all sorts of other costs | 14:56 |
| rmt2 | tvainio, good point. | 14:56 |
| tvainio | completely open access to everything makes it possible for example to bypass all volume limitations --> Somebody damages their ears with the device. --> They blame the HW vendor | 14:57 |
| Tuju | my point is, that in this market situation, your options to be picky are limited, that train has gone allready. We should put something new on the table - like complete openess that would attract both devs and consumers. | 14:57 |
| Tuju | tvainio: that has already happened with third party batteries and it has not driven the brand owners to bankrupt. | 14:58 |
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| ali1234 | meego is completely open | 14:58 |
| Tuju | ear damage vs exploding battery is bit different scale and the worse has already been proven being irrelevant. | 14:58 |
| ali1234 | meego isn't a hardware project | 14:59 |
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| CosmoHill | it's up to the vendors to provide hardware support | 14:59 |
| Tuju | ali1234: correct, but i've seen numerous requests for info that where you can run it. it cannot become anything successfull alone either. | 14:59 |
| ali1234 | which just goes to show that complete openness doesn't really attract any significant number of people | 15:00 |
| ali1234 | what you actually need is quality software | 15:00 |
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| Tuju | CosmoHill: you've seen how a) keen b) well vendors integrate their hardware with operating systems. HP with proliant is a good example of such which is just non acceptable. | 15:01 |
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| CosmoHill | ali1234: bugger me: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SSSE3 | 15:02 |
| ali1234 | um, no thanks? | 15:03 |
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| CosmoHill | I mean instead of doing research I could have just copied that page | 15:03 |
| ali1234 | and yes, that is where i got information about nano chip from? | 15:03 |
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| CosmoHill | anyone in here running MeeGo on a Xeon processor? | 15:04 |
| Tuju | but apparently there is no such license map for Meego yet? | 15:04 |
| Stskeeps | Tuju: it's pretty much 99% open source and 1% artwork packages | 15:05 |
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| ali1234 | it's as open as RHEL and you don't hear anyone whinging about that | 15:06 |
| Tuju | Stskeeps: ah, then i bit misunderstood earlier comments. | 15:06 |
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| Tuju | and apparently its radically more open than n700 was? | 15:06 |
| Stskeeps | Tuju: difference is that meego is a platform and not a end-user product | 15:06 |
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| ali1234 | it would be fair to say it is radically more open than maemo was | 15:07 |
| ali1234 | but maemo was based on debian | 15:07 |
| ali1234 | and debian is open | 15:07 |
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| Tuju | is the user interface part then vendor provided and closed? I mean all GUI stuff? | 15:10 |
| ali1234 | probably, yes | 15:10 |
| ali1234 | it will be like htc sense vs vanilla android osp | 15:10 |
| Tuju | I've been talking about this with quite many opensource people and nobody seems to really know these details. | 15:11 |
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| ali1234 | i don't know anything for sure, i'm just a guy, this is just my opinion | 15:12 |
| raster | Tuju: they dont know because it all depends on a final product coming out | 15:12 |
| ali1234 | exactly | 15:13 |
| raster | ans THAT product will define what IT ships with | 15:13 |
| raster | it may ship with a custom UI all open source | 15:13 |
| raster | or it may be closed | 15:13 |
| raster | anything that the vendor wrote | 15:13 |
| raster | eg a custom menu/home screen | 15:13 |
| raster | launcher | 15:13 |
| raster | whatever | 15:13 |
| ali1234 | amino are already shipping that STB with their closed UI on top of some meego bits | 15:13 |
| ali1234 | but everyone is only interested in phones for some reason | 15:14 |
| Tuju | is there any open UI projects for meego going on? | 15:14 |
| Stskeeps | raster: this is probably going to be a silly question, but is your target only phones? | 15:14 |
| Stskeeps | raster: in your work | 15:14 |
| ali1234 | Tuju: yes, the reference UXs for netbook and handset | 15:14 |
| Tuju | ali1234: any for vehicles? | 15:15 |
| Stskeeps | IVI too | 15:15 |
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| Tuju | do they use qt? | 15:15 |
| ali1234 | IVI is for vehicles yes, i don't know much about it | 15:15 |
| Stskeeps | yes | 15:15 |
| Stskeeps | netbook not so much due to history | 15:15 |
| Tuju | okay, that sounds good so far. | 15:15 |
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| ali1234 | yes, netbook UX is basically just moblin | 15:16 |
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| Tuju | is there distros for IVI stuff or do you need to sew it all together by yourself? | 15:16 |
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| ali1234 | http://meego.com/downloads/releases/1.1/meego-v1.1-in-vehicle-infotainment-ivi | 15:17 |
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| Tuju | ali1234: thanks, interesting | 15:17 |
| raster | Stskeeps: we have things working on a wide range of devices | 15:23 |
| raster | not just phones | 15:23 |
| Stskeeps | k | 15:23 |
| raster | what actually consists of something that is a PRODUCT that will come out | 15:23 |
| raster | ever | 15:23 |
| raster | or soon | 15:23 |
| raster | thats something i can't say :) | 15:23 |
| raster | samsung makes a tonne of devices | 15:24 |
| Stskeeps | make a hackable tv | 15:24 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 15:24 |
| ali1234 | TVs are already hackable if anyone cared enough to do it :) | 15:25 |
| raster | seom tv's to phones to printers, tablets, laptops, desktops, set to boxen, bluray/dvd players, airconditioners, vacuum cleaner robots, mp3 players, .... | 15:25 |
| raster | god | 15:25 |
| ali1234 | typical TV these days has embedded linux and 256mb ram | 15:25 |
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| raster | there isn't much they dont make | 15:25 |
| X-Fade | Stskeeps: My samsung tv runs armv7 and is kind of hackable already :) | 15:25 |
| raster | samsung tv's already run linux | 15:25 |
| raster | :) | 15:25 |
| ali1234 | panasonic too | 15:25 |
| raster | not really "advertised"as hackable | 15:25 |
| raster | but is | 15:25 |
| raster | :) | 15:25 |
| X-Fade | Nice serial port hidden in vga connector :D | 15:25 |
| ali1234 | bit expensive to go hunting around with the scope and soldering iron | 15:26 |
| ali1234 | i don't really care if i brick a $10 router, but a $600 TV is a bit different | 15:26 |
| X-Fade | Nah, is documented. And USB->ttl convertor is $2 on ebay :) | 15:26 |
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| raster | a full linux OS is capable of scaling from the simplest to the most complex of devices | 15:27 |
| raster | thats a wide range | 15:27 |
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| raster | you just need to customise the ui (if any) and apps that are part of it | 15:27 |
| ali1234 | only if you count busybox as "full linux" | 15:28 |
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| raster | it sneaks in | 15:28 |
| raster | :) | 15:28 |
| raster | unlike android | 15:28 |
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| ali1234 | anyone here familiar with the netgem iplayer? | 15:30 |
| raster | Stskeeps: mind u - phones are where all the sexy is atm | 15:31 |
| raster | and frankly.. if u can handle a smartphone... u can handle most things | 15:31 |
| Stskeeps | obviously | 15:31 |
| ali1234 | STB has a few unique problems... like the EPG for one | 15:32 |
| khertan | ok ... i ve read all http://qa-reports.meego.com/ about n900 image | 15:32 |
| khertan | none 1.1 have settings and wifi working ? | 15:32 |
| raster | well you could argue tablets push the ui bit up to "big screen" | 15:32 |
| raster | and a tv is something new ui-wise than a phone | 15:32 |
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| Stskeeps | khertan: settings should work next week, wifi someone's looking at. It's a UI issue, not hardware adaptationn | 15:32 |
| raster | mostly as u;'d be remote controlled | 15:32 |
| ali1234 | EPG is a very specific thing though... people are already familiar with them and they have expectations... | 15:32 |
| raster | not touch | 15:32 |
| ali1234 | where as tablets are mostly a new thing | 15:32 |
| raster | but really its still much the same | 15:32 |
| raster | ali1234: thats just part of the "stb tv app" | 15:33 |
| raster | the epg | 15:33 |
| ali1234 | yeah | 15:33 |
| raster | u handle epg protocol etc. there | 15:33 |
| raster | sure | 15:33 |
| khertan | Stskeeps, unfortunatly i couldn't wait next week ... i need to check some things | 15:33 |
| raster | different devices get their customised "ui app" | 15:33 |
| raster | smartphone has some kind of home/launcher screne/app | 15:33 |
| ali1234 | but you need a backend for listings, daemon for scheduled recordings... etc | 15:33 |
| raster | then new windows per app | 15:33 |
| raster | tv may simply run 1 app only | 15:33 |
| raster | (tv app) | 15:33 |
| raster | never offer others | 15:34 |
| raster | maybe same on low end mp3 player | 15:34 |
| ali1234 | and i really don't think mythtv is up to the job for a commercial product | 15:34 |
| ali1234 | maybe if you totally rewrote the UI :) | 15:34 |
| khertan | Stskeeps, maybe you can answer me ... does the dbus services available on Maemo are also available on MeeGo Handset ... like making call ... vibration ... | 15:34 |
| raster | thats what oem's do | 15:34 |
| raster | and oem's have the specs | 15:34 |
| raster | vendor X is going to buy 5 million stb's | 15:34 |
| raster | some cable company | 15:34 |
| raster | or whatever | 15:34 |
| raster | the oem GETS the specs | 15:35 |
| ali1234 | well yeah but... i was hoping for an open reference STB UX :) | 15:35 |
| Stskeeps | khertan: we use ofono now instead, supposedly there's a telepathy-ring implementation in works | 15:35 |
| Stskeeps | khertan: vibration.. | 15:35 |
| raster | good luck | 15:35 |
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| raster | for now open+apps battle hasnt hit the stb's | 15:35 |
| raster | its begining to hit tv's | 15:35 |
| robtaylor | Stskeeps: i think i saw a release of telepathy-ring go by a few weeks ago | 15:35 |
| khertan | Stskeeps, ofono .... hum ... let me see | 15:35 |
| jbos | mhm | 15:36 |
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| frikinz | I'd like to see what meego looks like on my laptop. Can I just dd the .img to an usb disk? | 15:36 |
| jbos | at least on latest weekly is no telepathy ring account | 15:36 |
| mikhas | whom to bug for setting up a mailinglist @ MeeGo? | 15:36 |
| ali1234 | frikinz: yes, exactly that | 15:36 |
| khertan | Stskeeps, is there any documentation for ophono ? | 15:36 |
| frikinz | ali1234: thanks! | 15:37 |
| Stskeeps | mikhas: file a bug under community infrastructure. i think there's a wiki page that deals with it | 15:37 |
| khertan | http://ofono.org/documentation | 15:37 |
| Stskeeps | khertan: doc/ in ofono package | 15:37 |
| robtaylor | mikhas: DawnFoster1 i think | 15:37 |
| Stskeeps | and yes, the homepage is laughable | 15:37 |
| jbos | from peregrine-communicator.org would like to give it a try to use telepathy-ring | 15:37 |
| mikhas | thanks! | 15:37 |
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| khertan | Stskeeps, it wasn't ofono in meego 0.9 ? | 15:38 |
| Stskeeps | khertan: we had modem working first in 1.1 i hink | 15:39 |
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| khertan | so ofono api should be the official way to do things right on Meego | 15:40 |
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| Stskeeps | khertan: that's a good question, i guess qt mobility is the official-official | 15:40 |
| Stskeeps | but i'm unsure | 15:40 |
| khertan | Stskeeps, hum | 15:40 |
| jbos | is there a ofono qt mobility | 15:40 |
| jbos | ??? | 15:40 |
| jbos | at least telepathy ring is appearing in core compliance | 15:40 |
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| jbos | ok just checked, ofono too | 15:42 |
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| DawnFoster1 | mikhas: we have a process for setting up new mailing lists: http://wiki.meego.com/Mailing_list_guidelines#Requesting_a_New_Mailing_List | 16:09 |
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| jophish_ | Hi again, I've gotten the mmcblk0 image from here: http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/releases/1.1/handset/images/meego-handset-armv7l-n900/ | 16:34 |
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| jophish_ | However when I run 'run mmcboot' in uboot, "wrong Image format for bootm command/Can't get kernel image" | 16:35 |
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| jophish_ | I have used dd to write the .raw file to mmcblk1 | 16:36 |
| Stskeeps | let it time out and it will boot to sd card if it's placed in | 16:37 |
| Stskeeps | remember to have back cover on | 16:37 |
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| jophish_ | Stskeeps: doing that boots into maemo | 16:37 |
| Stskeeps | jophish_: ah, 1.1 doesn't have uboot support. the one on tablets-dev does | 16:37 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 16:37 |
| jophish_ | rats, I can't get to that one, is there another mirror?] | 16:38 |
| jophish_ | I think that it's the work proxy | 16:38 |
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| jophish_ | Stskeeps: how are the images in 1.1.90 and 1.1.80 for stability? | 16:39 |
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| Stskeeps | they're mid-development snapshots, so they're thereafter | 16:40 |
| Stskeeps | use qa-reports.meegocom | 16:40 |
| Stskeeps | .com | 16:40 |
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| jophish_ | ah, thanks | 16:44 |
| Stskeeps | and see what things are breaking at this point of time | 16:44 |
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| khertan | Does the DBUS services com.nokia.modest, and com.nokia.mce still exist on MeeGo Handset ? | 17:13 |
| Venemo_N900 | khertan: modest only if you install modest :P | 17:13 |
| Venemo_N900 | khertan: there is some mce on meego, I've no idea if it has the same dbus interface | 17:14 |
| Venemo_N900 | khertan: check its source | 17:14 |
| khertan | indeed ;) | 17:14 |
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| khertan | Venemo_N900, difficult to found informations in the sources | 17:21 |
| khertan | seems some features was removed | 17:21 |
| Venemo_N900 | khertan: yeah, I too hate reading sources not written by me | 17:22 |
| khertan | req_vibrator_pattern_activate | 17:22 |
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| jonwil | what source is this you are looking at? | 17:25 |
| sivang | Venemo_N900: it is a good exersize. I do it all the time to get better sleep :p | 17:26 |
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| gabrbedd | khertan: I think dbus interfaces are declared in XML files so they are avail. at run-time. I think the folder is something like /usr/share/dbus/services or /lib/dbus/services or something. Perhaps grepping through that will get you somewhere. | 17:26 |
| Venemo_N900 | sivang: :P | 17:26 |
| khertan | gabrbedd, grepping will require a usable device :) | 17:27 |
| sivang | gabrbedd: there's a dbus guide on maemo wiki, I would think it still has relevence. | 17:27 |
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| khertan | sivang, not for everything | 17:27 |
| khertan | some part seems missing in mce and the way to do is using ofono dbus call | 17:27 |
| sivang | so ofono upstream should be asked. | 17:28 |
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| sivang | (I guess) | 17:28 |
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| gabrbedd | khertan: Usually xml files are copied directly from the sources... | 17:29 |
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| Venemo_N900 | gabrbedd: not every dbus stuff has an XML | 17:29 |
| gabrbedd | khertan: but it's also possible to unpack RPM files without actually installing them. | 17:29 |
| Venemo_N900 | gabrbedd: I can make a d-bus service with Qt without involving any xml | 17:29 |
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| gabrbedd | Venemo_N900: OK. I'm not a dbus expert... just seems like that's the typical practice. | 17:30 |
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| divan | Hi. Is this howto still relevant? http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_1.0_Netbook_VirtualBox | 18:03 |
| divan | I'm trying to enable OpenGL support as described but yum is unavailable on the system. | 18:03 |
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| Venemo_N900 | divan: what system is that? | 18:04 |
| divan | MeeGo 1.1 Netbook | 18:04 |
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| divan | I also want to install MeeGo to SD on my N900, but not sure if howtos and instlalation instructions not outdated... I'd like to use dualboot (never tried on N900 yet) and leave kernel-power if it's possible. So any hints are welcome. | 18:06 |
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| kallam | divan: http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Install/Dual_Boot and http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Install/MMC | 18:08 |
| kallam | write sd card | 18:09 |
| kallam | bzcat <raw_image>.bz2 | sudo dd bs=4096 of=/dev/sdX | 18:10 |
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| kallam | and install uboot-pr13 form extras-devel (requires pr1.3) | 18:11 |
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| divan | Ok, thanks. I've read these docs alread, but still didn't see clear if it not conflicts with kernel-power. | 18:15 |
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| vgrade-nexus | spotify on N900, http://developer.spotify.com/blog/archives/2011/02/12/libspotify-007-welcome-arm/ | 18:16 |
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| Shadikka | vgrade-nexus: despotify got there first, I think | 18:17 |
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| lcuk | so have people been trying to see whether tablet ux will fit and run well on a handset? | 18:19 |
| vgrade-nexus | lcuk, have it on the Joggler, but its a little unstable | 18:21 |
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| rmt2 | lcuk: Personally, I don't see people's obsession with having a mobile phone fit in your pocket. | 18:21 |
| lcuk | vgrade-nexus, unstable is fixable: usable is desired. | 18:21 |
| lcuk | rmt2, well when I used to carry around my old analogue dial BT classic phone people would point and stare | 18:22 |
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| lcuk | so I guess having a phone that fits in your pocket would be a key feature | 18:22 |
| Venemo_N900 | lcuk: tablet ux is a closed binary | 18:22 |
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| Venemo_N900 | lcuk: so you can't test on a handset | 18:23 |
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| lcuk | closed? | 18:23 |
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| lcuk | I thought it was just not in the repos yet but that most of it was qml? | 18:23 |
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| alterego | hurp-de-hurp | 18:25 |
| GAN900 | lcuk, binary-only. | 18:27 |
| arfoll | GAN900, where have you read they wont give sources? | 18:27 |
| vgrade-nexus | lcuk, http://plixi.com/p/77686885 | 18:27 |
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| arfoll | Intel guys at MWC where fairly confident it was just a matter of time | 18:28 |
| Stskeeps | GAN900: it's 'binary only' but actually the QML is obviously 'open source' | 18:28 |
| Stskeeps | i think there's a market for qml obscuficators (sp) | 18:28 |
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| Venemo_N900 | Stskeeps: you can embed qml into your executable. then it won't need obfuscation | 18:29 |
| Stskeeps | Venemo_N900: it'd be plain text there i guess | 18:29 |
| lcuk | sigh | 18:30 |
| Venemo_N900 | Stskeeps: also, some guy told me that qml can be compiled into C++ | 18:30 |
| lcuk | Venemo_N900, but that makes you a developer! | 18:30 |
| Venemo_N900 | lcuk: I'm a developer, so what? | 18:31 |
| lcuk | the point of qml was that you did not need to be one | 18:31 |
| lcuk | one major benefit of having tablet ux out there is hopefully people will start making real apps with qml | 18:32 |
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| GAN900 | Stskeeps, it's not all QML though, no? | 18:33 |
| Venemo_N900 | lcuk: I hate interpreted code. it's just that slower | 18:33 |
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| Venemo_N900 | lcuk: that's why I'd prefer to compile it | 18:33 |
| Stskeeps | GAN900: 95% really | 18:33 |
| Stskeeps | GAN900: as far as i can tell | 18:34 |
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| GAN900 | arfoll, I guess that's the issue. "Just wait, it'll be real soon now." | 18:35 |
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| GAN900 | After hearing that over and over since 2005, the cynic starts to take hold. | 18:36 |
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| arfoll | well what can we do but moan... | 18:36 |
| lcuk | arfoll, roll up your sleeves. | 18:36 |
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| npm | ANybody have suggestions on improving networking on Nebook 1.1.90 releases? Wireless comes up at some random address that won't route to the outside world... and the wired connection keeps going up and down when transferrring large files over ssh | 18:42 |
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| GAN900 | lcuk, and beat faces until we get a source repo? | 18:42 |
| npm | seems to happen on intel tablet ux 1.2 release and also meego-netbook-ia32-1.1.90.3.20110215.10.img | 18:42 |
| Venemo_N900 | npm: maybe something wrong with your driver? | 18:44 |
| Venemo_N900 | GAN900: yeah :D | 18:45 |
| lcuk | GAN900, no :| | 18:45 |
| npm | well i'm running on a lenovo s10-3t which is supposed to work | 18:45 |
| npm | strangely enough, fedora15 ( desktop-i386-20110217.00.iso ) had no such problems | 18:46 |
| Venemo_N900 | mhmm | 18:46 |
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| Venemo_N900 | well npm, then the issue is probably with MeeGo | 18:46 |
| npm | (and also f15 ought to be looked at by devs for performance and ui comparison w/ meego) | 18:47 |
| GAN900 | lcuk, getting petitions signed until we get a source repo? | 18:47 |
| npm | i'm sure the issue is with meego. | 18:47 |
| npm | i want to know what files to modify so i can do some work on it | 18:47 |
| Venemo_N900 | npm: what UI will F15 have that you want to compare MeeGo with? | 18:48 |
| lcuk | GAN900, it depends how you present the petition | 18:48 |
| npm | it appears gnome 3.0 | 18:48 |
| GAN900 | "Don't repeat other people's mistakes--again." | 18:48 |
| Venemo_N900 | npm: oh no | 18:48 |
| npm | and it's kinda nice -- it came up w/ very little problems | 18:48 |
| Venemo_N900 | npm: I tried the "gnome shell" on F14 | 18:49 |
| Venemo_N900 | npm: it was not userfriendly at al | 18:49 |
| npm | i thought it was very user friendly. as someone that used fedora since it was called redhat 1.0 .. everything was obvious and easy to find | 18:49 |
| npm | this is the just branched f15 | 18:50 |
| Venemo_N900 | npm: you are the first person I found who liked gnome-shell | 18:50 |
| Venemo_N900 | npm: when it comes, I'll probably stay with the current gnome pane. | 18:50 |
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| npm | and my reasons for looking at fedora are to meegolemize Meego 1.2 ( http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-community/2010-September/001919.html ) | 18:51 |
| lcuk | good afternoon ssvb \o | 18:51 |
| npm | i don't know if it was "gnome shell" it was whatever default desktop f15 comes up with | 18:51 |
| Venemo_N900 | npm: well I'm actually a Fedora user :) | 18:51 |
| Venemo_N900 | good afternoon lcuk | 18:51 |
| ssvb | hi lcuk | 18:51 |
| lcuk | where does meego store the desktop background? | 18:51 |
| npm | i am too, but i use KDE | 18:51 |
| Venemo_N900 | npm: can you post me a screenshot then about that ui? | 18:52 |
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| npm | eventually... i guess i can try running it out of qemu | 18:52 |
| daaxma_ | 1;2c1;2c/leave | 18:53 |
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| divan | I would repeat the questions - first is about OpenGL in VirtualBox with Meego. This wiki howto either wrong or outdated, can someone confirm that? http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_1.0_Netbook_VirtualBox#Installing_VirtualBox_guest_additions_for_OpenGL_acceleration | 18:56 |
| divan | Second - is it possible to install Meego to SD on N900 with kernel-power in maemo? (Now, uboot-pr13 conflicts with kernel-power). | 18:57 |
| Stskeeps | divan: you need a uboot matching your kernel-power | 18:57 |
| divan | Is it in repos? | 18:58 |
| divan | Thanks, seems I've found! | 18:58 |
| Stskeeps | dunno | 18:58 |
| divan | http://maemo.org/packages/view/uboot-power/ | 18:58 |
| jophish_ | Stskeeps: I'm using 1.1.80 at the moment, and it's pretty slick | 18:59 |
| Stskeeps | jophish_: ok, good | 18:59 |
| jophish_ | I can't wait until april! | 18:59 |
| TSCHAKeee | jophish_: handset or netbook? | 18:59 |
| lcuk | vgrade-nexus, the cool tablet ux on the joggler - its very large | 19:00 |
| lcuk | does the UI not scale to fit? | 19:00 |
| jophish_ | TSCHAKeee: handset, n900 | 19:00 |
| TSCHAKeee | lcuk: it's a pannable UI | 19:00 |
| TSCHAKeee | it seems | 19:00 |
| TSCHAKeee | even on 1024x600 it's huge | 19:00 |
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| lcuk | TSCHAKeee, I know the pannable stuff | 19:00 |
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| lcuk | but the panels themselves "fit" more on the ideapad/exopc | 19:01 |
| TSCHAKeee | but i guess they threw it together all with fixed position qml | 19:01 |
| lcuk | than on the joggler | 19:01 |
| lcuk | well fixed position qml is still technically capable of being universally scaled | 19:01 |
| lcuk | just like resizing a webpage etc | 19:01 |
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| vgrade-nexus | lcuk, I just took the rootfs from the pinetrail iso, added emgd and joggler efi bits and pieces | 19:02 |
| vgrade-nexus | lcuk, probably needs some setting up of the res somewhere in some random config file | 19:02 |
| lcuk | yeah, like the changing desktops stuff | 19:02 |
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| lcuk | perhaps you will find some info in: http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_Desktop/Changing_Desktops | 19:03 |
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| tripzero | bluetooth on this exopc is flaky | 19:06 |
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| Venemo_N900 | lcuk: did you see latest puzzle-master? | 19:07 |
| niala1 | nianiania | 19:07 |
| jophish_ | would it be worth investigating if increasing the nice value for all user apps but the foreground one had any performance gains? | 19:07 |
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| jophish_ | A bit like the iPhone OS suspends background tasks | 19:08 |
| lcuk | no Venemo_N900 I have been flashing meego images so havent had a full computer to peek | 19:08 |
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| Venemo_N900 | lcuk: could you please try it when you can? :) | 19:09 |
| Venemo_N900 | lcuk: I'm always eager to hear your feedback | 19:09 |
| vgrade-nexus | lcuk, /etc/meegotouch/devices.conf might be the one, thanks | 19:09 |
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| npm | jophish_: what about giving the foreground proc low-level realtime priority? -- isn't 'nice' the old-school way? | 19:22 |
| jophish_ | npm: I've no idea, The idea is the same | 19:22 |
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| alterego | is there a Q_WS_MEEGO flag? | 20:03 |
| alterego | Or, how can I test if I'm compiling for meego handset? | 20:04 |
| alterego | Or, well, MeeGo in general? :) | 20:04 |
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| gabrbedd | alterego: No, it's Q_WS_X11 | 20:06 |
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| gabrbedd | alterego: for MeeGo release, I think you check the file /etc/meego-release | 20:06 |
| gabrbedd | alterego: but there may be a better way. | 20:07 |
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| milliams | Either write cross-platform code or make a check at compile/cmake time I guess is ebst. | 20:08 |
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| * npm installs meego-netbook-ia32-1.1.90.4.20110217.87.img in hopes of a more stable network | 20:13 | |
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| npm | hi gabrbedd -- should i worry about turning off "ondemand" mode on a netbook for getting better perf? (like overheating issues if i use 'performance' mode.) | 20:14 |
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| Alison_Chaiken | gabrbedd, had the same weird behavior with touchscreen with IVI on Ideapad that you reported. Joel Clark says it can be fixed in xrandr, which I'm about to try. The problem must be in the touch driver, as external mouse is not mirrored. | 20:20 |
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| * npm learns to leave "system clock uses UTC" checked | 20:26 | |
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| npm | Alison_Chaiken: what's the problem? that mouse clicks don't work on the touch interface? | 20:27 |
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| Alison_Chaiken | npm, y-motions on touchpad are reversed, while external mouse works as expected. Speaking of which, I'm off to Ideapad IVI land. | 20:28 |
| lcuk | Alison_Chaiken, not whilst driving I hope! | 20:29 |
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| npm | hmmm perhaps that explains what was happening when i was testing http://nielsmayer.com/xwiki/bin/view/Timeline/NprTimeline | 20:31 |
| npm | in the web-browser... everything was scrolling in the wrong direction | 20:32 |
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| gabrbedd | npm: On atom-based netbooks and tablets, I've been running "performance" for months without any issues. IIRC there's stuff in the x86 kernels to keep you from bricking your device. Once you leave x86, though, it's Buyer Beware. | 20:33 |
| npm | as in AMD? | 20:34 |
| gabrbedd | Alison_Chainken: Thanks for the update! | 20:34 |
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| npm | my Phenom II 3.4G has made it through extensive runs cooking at 71 degrees C with no probs | 20:35 |
| npm | (but not in meego, that's my fedora desktop) | 20:35 |
| npm | but that's good to know regarding ondemand/vs/perf... i'd imagine that's what makes indamixx be able to do music ok | 20:36 |
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| gabrbedd | npm: As in ARM. | 20:39 |
| npm | oh , yeah, i haven't even dared overclock the n900 yet | 20:40 |
| gabrbedd | npm: ondemand/performance is part of it. We also change the kernel scheduler to deadline (instead of CFS) because it's better for low-latency, interrupt-driven audio apps. | 20:40 |
| npm | it's too nice to be used for experiments like that :-) | 20:41 |
| npm | very cool that you're looking into this gabrbedd! | 20:42 |
| gabrbedd | npm: What you run in to, though, is that doing these things consumes more power. | 20:42 |
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| gabrbedd | Sure, the LCD sucks up more power than anything else... | 20:43 |
| gabrbedd | But main-stream MeeGo will never go this route because it's not as "green" as CFS/ondemand. | 20:43 |
| gabrbedd | (And I don't blame them) | 20:43 |
| gabrbedd | But for a specialized application (Tablet for RT Music Performance/Composition), latency and reliable scheduling is more important to the musician than saving power. | 20:45 |
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| Stskeeps | gabrbedd: so you're with indimixx(sp)? | 20:45 |
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| gabrbedd | "Urm, sorry for the noise just then... but think of all the trees we're saving!" | 20:45 |
| gabrbedd | :-) | 20:45 |
| gabrbedd | Stskeeps: yes. | 20:45 |
| Stskeeps | ah, cool - looks like a quite nice product | 20:45 |
| gabrbedd | Stskeeps: thank you! I like it. :-) | 20:46 |
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| gabrbedd | It's still in beta for a reason, tho. | 20:47 |
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| npm | what about having it automatically go into perf&deadline sched when on power, and back to normal on battery | 20:48 |
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| gabrbedd | npm: Robin Gareus at 64Studio came up with an experiment to do that... and we played around with it for a couple days. It adjusted the scheduling based on the current load reported by JACK. | 20:49 |
| gabrbedd | npm: However, that implementation had a fundamental race condition -- and both of us have bigger fish to fry. | 20:50 |
| gabrbedd | npm: For example... since MeeGo trunk has gone OpenGL ES -- one of my apps quit working and I can't figure out why. | 20:51 |
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| gabrbedd | npm: Meanwhile, a different app (which is Xlib-based) is unusable with mcompositor because of some oddness with the mouse clicks. | 20:51 |
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| npm | like the video accelerator DMA hogging the bus and glitching the audio? | 20:54 |
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| * npm in desperation does 'chkconfig --levels 0123456 vfirstboot off' and reboots | 20:56 | |
| gabrbedd | npm: No, like the scrolling waveform not showing up... giving me a widget that's just a black, empty rectangle. | 20:58 |
| * gabrbedd was talking about Mixxx http://www.mixxx.org/ | 20:58 | |
| npm | apparently you're not allowed to set your timezone to Los Angeles... (leaves it at newyork to finish firstboot) | 20:58 |
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| gabrbedd | ha! | 20:59 |
| npm | gabrbedd: is that in 'mixxx' ?? | 21:00 |
| npm | i saw that problem... it's a Qt issue... i think 'mixxx' 1.9 no longer has it | 21:00 |
| npm | if the issue is in 'mixxx' try changing the skin from the current one to a different one and back again... it'll reset | 21:02 |
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| gabrbedd | npm: ok, I'll try that. It'll be a few hours before I can, tho. | 21:05 |
| npm | once i moved to mixxx 1.9 the issue went away. although since i compiled that one myself, i can't rememver if i used stock fedora qt or latest 4.7.1 | 21:06 |
| npm | i've also seem that same problem in more programs than just 'mixxx' which seem to use the same calls | 21:06 |
| gabrbedd | npm: Well, I never had the problem with 1.8 -- but I also recompiled qt libs to get Qt3Support... and it was also using OpenGL. | 21:08 |
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| gabrbedd | npm: The funny thing is... when I isolate the widget into a test environment -- it works fine. | 21:08 |
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| Dave_L | hi, does anyone know how to get bluetooth working on exopc with meego netbook? | 21:08 |
| gabrbedd | npm: So I think perhaps Mixxx is trying to do something too clever. | 21:08 |
| npm | also consider 'QT_GRAPHICSSYSTEM=raster' ?? | 21:09 |
| npm | as in you could tell it not to use OGL for certain problematic apps? | 21:09 |
| gabrbedd | npm: I can make it work by switching to a non-GL widget (since the code is only using QPainter)... | 21:09 |
| gabrbedd | but it's frigging slow when you do that. | 21:10 |
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| gabrbedd | npm: No, gotta have OGL for decent scrolling performance. | 21:10 |
| npm | drawing a waveform shouldn't need GL... it's just blitting | 21:10 |
| npm | X == "bitblit on wheels" | 21:11 |
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| bash` | I am building bognor-regis from git, how can I disable tracker? because I've tracker 0.10 but it needs tracker 0.9 | 21:12 |
| gabrbedd | npm: The waveform has to be created in real time... with adjustments for tempo, beat locations, position change/scratching, and even unknown audio data (streaming). | 21:12 |
| gabrbedd | npm: So, it's a little more that just bitblitting... | 21:13 |
| gabrbedd | npm: Anyway, I'm not the upstream dev on Mixxx... | 21:13 |
| gabrbedd | npm: I'm just trying to make it work since it's a very important app to us. | 21:13 |
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| gabrbedd | I need to go offline for a while. Nice chatting with you, npm. | 21:14 |
| npm | good talking to you as well... good to have some linux-audio-dev representation into meego | 21:15 |
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| gabrbedd | npm: Oh! Hi Niels! I didn't realize it was you! | 21:16 |
| npm | yep | 21:18 |
| npm | :-) | 21:18 |
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| npm | did the Intel panels stuff get integrated back into the meego netbook ux, or did i just accidentally create a hybrid by overwriting the intel install with today's daily build | 21:54 |
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| npm | looks like i created a monster, again | 21:54 |
| npm | :-) | 21:54 |
| npm | i can pull up the intel stuff with the windows key, and otherwise it's back to the old meego interface | 21:55 |
| npm | very strange | 21:55 |
| npm | i was wondering why there were so many install errors to work around :-) | 21:55 |
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| npm | hello, can somebody sanity check me? did meego-netbook-ia32-1.1.90.4.20110217.87.img get Intel's Touch UX added in? | 21:56 |
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| npm | because it's running on this netbook right now | 21:57 |
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| npm | hmm.. best of both worlds.... and a later kernel | 22:03 |
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| npm | well lets see if it survives a reboot | 22:06 |
| lcuk | npm - so the netbook image has been switched out for tablet? | 22:06 |
| TSCHAKeee | ??? | 22:06 |
| npm | no they coexist | 22:06 |
| TSCHAKeee | really? | 22:06 |
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| npm | because i made a mistake in intallation | 22:06 |
| npm | and forgot to reformat the disks | 22:06 |
| TSCHAKeee | urrr | 22:06 |
| lcuk | npm - the image you just said is just netbook then? | 22:06 |
| npm | it's pretty cool | 22:06 |
| npm | it's the intel tablet with the latest daily on top of it | 22:07 |
| lcuk | we know cross UX existence is possible indeed :) | 22:07 |
| npm | i can get the old meego menu bar by going to the top of the screen | 22:07 |
| TSCHAKeee | especially because netbook UX is different from all the rest underneath | 22:07 |
| npm | and get the intel stuff by hitting the windows or menu keys | 22:07 |
| npm | it's f'in cool | 22:07 |
| npm | a good hack | 22:07 |
| TSCHAKeee | completely orthogonal | 22:07 |
| TSCHAKeee | heheh | 22:07 |
| lcuk | TSCHAKeee, no - the UXes can certainly coest | 22:07 |
| lcuk | theres docs for switching netbook to handset to ivi | 22:08 |
| lcuk | http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_Desktop/Changing_Desktops | 22:08 |
| npm | goes to find camera | 22:08 |
| npm | the intel stuff looks different in this version :-) | 22:08 |
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| lcuk | question: On Meego, is it similar to Maemo regarding app theming, ie can an app use graphical assets that exist already on the device (or selected by user etc) | 22:26 |
| nexuss | Build / repository question: Which .ks file is known to work right now? I've tried a few from 1.1.90, but continue to get "Failed to find package" | 22:26 |
| lcuk | nexuss, which package is missing specifically | 22:27 |
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| nexuss | "u-boot-tools" from this one: http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/trunk/1.1.90.0.20110125.3/handset/images/meego-handset-armv7l-n900/meego-handset-armv7l-n900-1.1.90.0.20110125.3.ks | 22:28 |
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| ahiemstra | lcuk: that depends on how its implemented | 22:31 |
| ahiemstra | I noticed the tablet ux uses a custom theme provider for the qml components | 22:31 |
| ahiemstra | so that one seems to support it at least | 22:31 |
| Mek | nexuss: and are you building for the correct architecture? | 22:31 |
| Mek | nexuss: if the .ks file is arm specific and you try building a non-arm image, it will not find some packages | 22:32 |
| lcuk | ahiemstra, well if I run an app on MeeGo, it should look like MeeGo right? | 22:33 |
| ali1234 | what does meego look like? | 22:33 |
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| lcuk | sidetrack: | 22:34 |
| nexuss | mek: Thanks! Makes sense. added "-a arm". Let's see how it goes. | 22:34 |
| ahiemstra | lcuk: yeah | 22:34 |
| Mek | nexuss: armv7l I think it is | 22:34 |
| ahiemstra | lcuk: I would guess the plan is to make all of the qml components used on the tablet ux available in general so that app developers can build apps with them | 22:35 |
| lcuk | ahiemstra, I am not specifically thinking of QML though, just in general about how theme pieces are usable by apps | 22:36 |
| lcuk | for instance, in the background of different windows theres bits of meegons and stuff coming from images | 22:37 |
| nexuss | mek: It seems to work with just arm, and is downloading lots of arm7l packages now. | 22:37 |
| Mek | ah, okay | 22:37 |
| ahiemstra | lcuk: ah right | 22:37 |
| lcuk | when run on MeeGo, should the user apps expect to have those things around? | 22:37 |
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| * lcuk doesn't much mind either way, but it will no doubt be asked by people when they start building apps | 22:37 | |
| Mek | now when I tried to build an arm image, I had more problems because a lot of the post-install hooks caused qemu to segfault, resultin in for example update-mime-database never having run, and thus no mimetypes being found... | 22:38 |
| ali1234 | lcuk: so your question is actually "are those theme images part of the core / can apps use them and be compliant?" | 22:38 |
| lcuk | ali1234, probably | 22:38 |
| ali1234 | i think the answer is no | 22:38 |
| lcuk | I just wondered how to make apps fit in more | 22:38 |
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| ali1234 | you're not supposed to make your apps fit in, you're supposed to give it a unique QML interface | 22:39 |
| lcuk | so every app will not look like meego apps because they cannot apply meego theme | 22:39 |
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| nexuss | mek: ah, good to know. my user name hints at what I'm trying to do, however, just starting up still. :) | 22:39 |
| ali1234 | right, there is no theme, you're not even supposed to be using standard UI elements like buttons and scroll bars | 22:39 |
| ali1234 | you are supposed to create something totally new and unique with animation and QML and smooth scrolling and 3D effects | 22:40 |
| lcuk | ali1234, I don't think they expect every single app developer to build every single piece of their components for their apps | 22:41 |
| lcuk | that would take literally years | 22:41 |
| ali1234 | i have not seen any indications otherwise | 22:41 |
| ali1234 | you're supposed to hire a UI designer to do it for you in photoshop and javascript | 22:41 |
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| ahiemstra | ali1234: not true, both the tablet ux and the handset ux contain a set of qml components that are meant to be used by app developers | 22:42 |
| lcuk | GULP! | 22:42 |
| ali1234 | ahiemstra: ok, where is this documented, and why is all the training material for QML so heavily focussed on creating everything from scratch? | 22:43 |
| npm | http://nielsmayer.com/meego/20110218_001s.jpg | 22:43 |
| lcuk | well, all I was thinking was loading the meego desktop background into liqbase instead of my crappy fractal one | 22:43 |
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| ahiemstra | ali1234: because the qml components are not official "public api" yet | 22:43 |
| npm | http://nielsmayer.com/meego/20110218_002s.jpg | 22:43 |
| ahiemstra | but the fact that that is the intention is very clear in both the tablet and handset ux | 22:43 |
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| ahiemstra | because there are a lot of similar elements used in all those applications | 22:44 |
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| ali1234 | will these QML components "do the right thing" when run under windows/mac os? | 22:44 |
| npm | http://nielsmayer.com/meego/20110218_003s.jpg | 22:44 |
| lcuk | they should look just like they do on MeeGo! | 22:44 |
| npm | those are pictures of the "hybrid" | 22:44 |
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| ali1234 | lcuk: that's what i fear, so i will have to create a UI for meego using QML and a UI for everything else using QWidgets | 22:45 |
| nexuss | npm: what | 22:45 |
| npm | http://nielsmayer.com/meego/20110218_004s.jpg | 22:45 |
| nexuss | npm: what type of device is that taken from; phone / tablet ? | 22:45 |
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| ahiemstra | ali1234: as far as I know, once its official api, there will be a theme for all tier 1 supported platforms | 22:45 |
| npm | lenovo s10-3t | 22:45 |
| npm | running today's daily build and intel tablet ux at same time | 22:46 |
| ahiemstra | ali1234: but that's based more on my speculation then anything else really | 22:46 |
| npm | it was an accident :-) | 22:46 |
| npm | i was wondering why i had to do so many workarounds during install | 22:46 |
| npm | http://nielsmayer.com/meego/20110218_005s.jpg | 22:47 |
| npm | here's a better shot: http://nielsmayer.com/meego/20110218_005s.jpg | 22:47 |
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| npm | http://nielsmayer.com/meego/20110218_007s.jpg | 22:48 |
| ahiemstra | ali1234: the first question is though, whether meego tablet/handset ux qml components will be the same as the ones from the qt qml components project :p | 22:48 |
| npm | intel's picture viewer survived the update: http://nielsmayer.com/meego/20110218_008s.jpg | 22:48 |
| ahiemstra | npm: wow, that's an... interesting setup :) | 22:49 |
| lcuk | npm, are those images built onto the image? | 22:49 |
| npm | and here's the zones and intel's stuff: http://nielsmayer.com/meego/20110218_009s.jpg | 22:49 |
| lcuk | the ones in the photo viewer | 22:49 |
| sivang | re all | 22:49 |
| npm | no those are from my music | 22:49 |
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| npm | part of why the accident happened is because i didn't want to overwrite my /home dir with all my files | 22:49 |
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| sivang | ali1234: why qwidgets? | 22:50 |
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| sandst1 | lbt: ping | 22:50 |
| npm | but apparently i also didn't format '/' | 22:50 |
| ali1234 | sivang: because qwidgets fit in with the native OS (usually) | 22:50 |
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| sivang | ali1234: and qml is only on meego? | 22:50 |
| sivang | npm: how did you fix pinetrail's resolution? | 22:50 |
| sivang | npm: to not go beyond the ideapad screen realestate? | 22:51 |
| ali1234 | sivang: qml is on all platforms afaik but it doesn't fit in with any of them, you have to make all your own widgets from scratch currently | 22:51 |
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| sandst1 | X-Fade: ping | 22:51 |
| sivang | yes, but the idea is to have the world QMLized | 22:51 |
| lcuk | ali1234, websites are the same! | 22:51 |
| npm | sivang: that's just how it booted up | 22:51 |
| sivang | npm: is this pinretrail or just meego? | 22:51 |
| npm | i thought i was running normal meego | 22:51 |
| ali1234 | lcuk: yes. web apps suck (except gmail) | 22:52 |
| npm | until the pinetrail screensaver thingy came up and i was like w.t.f. | 22:52 |
| npm | it also has the pinetrail options app | 22:52 |
| lcuk | ali1234, websites: html is there on all platforms, but each site has to bring its own | 22:52 |
| npm | and everything else | 22:52 |
| sivang | npm: so is this upsteram meego or pinetrail ? :) | 22:52 |
| sivang | I couldn't make it behave | 22:52 |
| sivang | and to close apps I had to go to the VT and use pkill :) | 22:53 |
| lcuk | intuitive | 22:53 |
| npm | it's meego-netbook-ia32-1.1.90.4.20110217.87.img with the intel tablet ux | 22:53 |
| ali1234 | lcuk: websites shouldn't have buttons and sliders all over them | 22:54 |
| sivang | npm: how do you get the intel tablet UX? | 22:54 |
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| sivang | npm: and I believe it had swype? | 22:54 |
| lcuk | ali1234, if I add a button to a website it has theme pieces from the OS its on | 22:54 |
| lcuk | I was just wondering how far that extended | 22:54 |
| npm | http://appdeveloper.intel.com/en-us/meego-iso-esla | 22:55 |
| ali1234 | in some browsers it does... in others it doesn't | 22:55 |
| lcuk | well that is ok | 22:55 |
| ali1234 | but yeah i see what you mean | 22:55 |
| npm | it's not invoking swype, but it is putting up the intel cut/paste doo-dad | 22:55 |
| sivang | npm: this is what I have dammit | 22:55 |
| lcuk | I wasnt asking about browsers, I was asking whether an app can make use of theme pieces existing on the machine its installed onto | 22:55 |
| sivang | so it just does not boot right for me. | 22:55 |
| sivang | did you install it or use it live off the cd? | 22:55 |
| npm | no, i've created a monster | 22:55 |
| npm | this is not a normal install | 22:56 |
| sivang | I used unetbooting to create the USB stick booter | 22:56 |
| npm | it's a happy accident | 22:56 |
| ali1234 | lcuk: it can if you program it to? but that may make your app non-compliant... | 22:56 |
| sivang | npm: maybe this is a culpirt? | 22:56 |
| sivang | the culprit? | 22:56 |
| npm | i | 22:56 |
| npm | it was my fault but the end results were good | 22:56 |
| lcuk | ali1234, there is no saying the app is compliant anyway | 22:56 |
| sivang | npm: can you please tell me what to do so I can have a ebook reader at least ouf of the ideapad? | 22:56 |
| lcuk | it was just a question | 22:56 |
| npm | to not have it happen, reformat the disk between installs | 22:56 |
| npm | to have it happen, forget to reformat the disk after installing pinetrail | 22:56 |
| sivang | npm: getting the w7 started seems to be very hard ;) I should have dual boot installed. | 22:57 |
| npm | that is install pinetrail first, then meego-netbook-ia32-1.1.90.4.20110217.87.img "on top" | 22:57 |
| npm | and that's what the pictures are | 22:57 |
| sivang | npm: great. You should document this in the wiki | 22:57 |
| sivang | npm: and is it okay to use unetbootin to create the stick installer? | 22:57 |
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| ali1234 | my point is you can make your app load the meego backdrop or whatever, but that won't work on windows | 22:57 |
| npm | first i need to eat. i was so excited i forgot | 22:57 |
| sivang | npm: heh | 22:57 |
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| sivang | npm: tell me how you created the sick installer , I hope not manually? (I already forgot how to do that with Ubuntu's startup disk creator) | 22:58 |
| npm | if you scroll back, note my asking for a sanity check on whether intel's stuff got integrated back into meego | 22:58 |
| npm | but apparently it hasn't | 22:58 |
| sivang | not it hasn't | 22:58 |
| sivang | we wish | 22:58 |
| sivang | but wishes aside, and facts another side. | 22:58 |
| npm | well it's a simple hack away | 22:58 |
| sivang | it may get there in a week or two I guess | 22:58 |
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| sivang | so what happened that somehow the x setup (which should be created everboot anyway) got 'fixed' | 22:59 |
| sivang | pretty cool | 22:59 |
| sivang | npm: that's how innovation works. | 22:59 |
| npm | i didn't create an installer. i just used the normal installer and "create custom partitioning" | 22:59 |
| sivang | npm: did youburn to CD? | 22:59 |
| sivang | npm: I don't understand | 22:59 |
| trumee | sivang: guess nobody was interested in the sip bug in meego-qa ml | 22:59 |
| sivang | npm: what is the normal installer? | 22:59 |
| sivang | trumee: yes, I saw. This is sad. | 22:59 |
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| npm | just the regular image installation | 23:00 |
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| npm | meego-netbook-ia32-1.1.90.4.20110217.87.img | 23:00 |
| MoL0ToV | hi to all! nokia abandoned meego and switched to microsoft, right? | 23:00 |
| npm | throw that man a cocktail --> #meego-bar | 23:00 |
| trumee | sivang: any idea if sip/voip (UI) is actually available in meego? | 23:00 |
| sivang | trumee: I couldn't make my meego handset work, so I couldn't test. I am waiting for a better image to test with. | 23:00 |
| sivang | can anybody please help trumee ? | 23:00 |
| sivang | with knowledge of sip in meego? | 23:00 |
| blizzow | I just want to see pictures of what the abandoned device looked like. | 23:01 |
| trumee | sivang: meego netbook UX doesnt have sip UI? | 23:01 |
| sivang | trumee: Not that I know of. | 23:01 |
| npm | sivang: the reason why i did this was because the intel tablet networking was too unstable to actually use | 23:01 |
| sivang | npm: it is stable for me. | 23:01 |
| npm | i was hoping that got resolved with a later build... it didn't | 23:01 |
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| npm | but the monster happened instead | 23:01 |
| npm | what about wired network | 23:02 |
| sivang | npm: can you please describe what do you mean in 'normal installer' | 23:02 |
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| sivang | npm: did you mount the iso and cp'd to the usb stick? | 23:02 |
| npm | it goes up/down all the time esp. if you are transferring 100G's of files | 23:02 |
| sivang | npm: ah, I've noticed this bug soemwheree on bts | 23:02 |
| npm | i installed from a SD card with the iso on it | 23:02 |
| sivang | npm: bugs.meego.com that is | 23:02 |
| npm | ran the meego installer | 23:02 |
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| npm | and whjen it came to the disks part | 23:03 |
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| npm | i went for "custom install" so as not to reformat my /home partition | 23:03 |
| npm | which is also how i installed the tablet ux and all my others... | 23:03 |
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| blizzow | -bar/join #meeg-bar | 23:04 |
| npm | so i can keep my files and patches to get it back to a working state more quickly | 23:04 |
| sivang | npm: I see, how did you boot of the iso in the sd card? | 23:04 |
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| sivang | *off | 23:05 |
| npm | sudo dd bs=4096 if=meego-netbook-ia32-1.1.90.4.20110217.87.img of=/dev/sdc | 23:05 |
| npm | where sdc is the card | 23:05 |
| npm | then i plugged the card into the s10-3t and booted | 23:06 |
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| npm | (check the boot order in the bios but the SD slot is before the disk by default) | 23:06 |
| sivang | npm: right, but the download as an iso | 23:06 |
| ali1234 | it's a hybrid iso like all meego images | 23:06 |
| sivang | ali1234: meaning you can sector copy it ? | 23:07 |
| ali1234 | yes | 23:07 |
| npm | http://download.meego.com/testing-daily/builds/trunk/1.1.90.4.20110217.87/netbook/images/meego-netbook-ia32/meego-netbook-ia32-1.1.90.4.20110217.87.img | 23:07 |
| sivang | interesting | 23:07 |
| sivang | I learned somethig new now | 23:07 |
| sivang | npm: no, I mean hod did you copy the pinetrail image to the sd card? | 23:07 |
| npm | same way | 23:08 |
| npm | exact same thing | 23:08 |
| sivang | npm: according to waht ali1234 said? | 23:08 |
| sivang | ok cool | 23:08 |
| sivang | thanks guys | 23:08 |
| * sivang gets busy | 23:08 | |
| npm | well according to the way i've always done it? | 23:08 |
| * sivang reads with's a hybrid iso is. | 23:08 | |
| sivang | nice! | 23:09 |
| sivang | is this a formal format? http://wiki.geteasypeasy.com/Hybrid_ISO/IMG_format | 23:09 |
| ali1234 | dunno about formal, but all meego x86 images use it | 23:10 |
| ali1234 | and a lot of other people | 23:10 |
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| sivang | ali1234: I magine this can work for sticks just the same right? | 23:10 |
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| ali1234 | yes | 23:11 |
| sivang | right, on to it. | 23:11 |
| ali1234 | it's meant for USB flash installs when the device has no CD drive | 23:11 |
| sivang | ah yes, read the description in the easypeasy weiki | 23:11 |
| ali1234 | installing from USB, not to USB.. | 23:11 |
| sivang | yes | 23:11 |
| sivang | to create an installation stick | 23:11 |
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| sivang | so it contains the partitions and everything | 23:12 |
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| ali1234 | suse uses this format too for their OBS live images, and moblin used it | 23:12 |
| sivang | I acutally did it for the sd with meego daliy's and did not realize. | 23:12 |
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| ali1234 | or something very similar anyway | 23:12 |
| ali1234 | i suspect moblin might have invented it actually | 23:13 |
| dvalfre1 | hi... is there any way to findout, from a running program, if a given MeeGo is running on tablet or netbook? | 23:13 |
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| npm | http://nielsmayer.com/meego/20110218_011b.jpg | 23:15 |
| sivang | ali1234: I see. | 23:15 |
| npm | http://nielsmayer.com/meego/20110218_012b.jpg | 23:15 |
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| npm | the intel options panel and cut/past stuff, but swype not running, which makes it easier to use the keyboard | 23:16 |
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| sivang | ali1234: I see. | 23:19 |
| sivang | err | 23:19 |
| sivang | sorry | 23:19 |
| sivang | screw computers | 23:19 |
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| sivang | funny usb2 should be able to do 400mb/s right? | 23:25 |
| sivang | and the reate I got from dd was 4.8mb/s | 23:25 |
| sivang | I guess since this is not a directo transfer? | 23:25 |
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| lindi- | sivang: MB/s maybe? | 23:27 |
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| sivang | oh right | 23:27 |
| sivang | darn me | 23:27 |
| sivang | thanks lindi- | 23:27 |
| GAN900 | sivang, the more you use and learn about them, the more you hate them, right? ;) | 23:27 |
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| sivang | GAN900: who ? :) | 23:28 |
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| GAN900 | sivang, general you. | 23:28 |
| sivang | GAN900: EPARSE, still | 23:28 |
| sivang | should I be offended? | 23:29 |
| sivang | :) | 23:29 |
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| GAN900 | sivang, no, I'm agreeing with your "screw computers" sentiment. | 23:30 |
| GAN900 | i.e., I find myself expressing similar sentiments. ;) | 23:30 |
| sivang | GAN900: ah yes! they cause mental and physical illness as well :) | 23:30 |
| sivang | GAN900: sure, I wish it was not such an obsession though | 23:30 |
| * sivang should get a gf | 23:30 | |
| sivang | If anything, 11 feb proved that to me ;-p | 23:31 |
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| sivang | GAN900: studies show that too much time infront of a computer can elevate chances for qpulepsia | 23:31 |
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| sivang | epilepsia | 23:32 |
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| lcuk | ahiemstra, ali1234 - I decided to just try a photo I had taken myself instead | 23:35 |
| lcuk | http://liqbase.net/20090113_024.jpg | 23:35 |
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| lcuk | :O datestamp | 23:35 |
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| lcuk | better http://liqbase.net/20110218_024.jpg | 23:36 |
| ali1234 | it's not like liqbase is ever going to fit in with any OS... it practically *is* an OS... | 23:37 |
| *** stefanoP has quit IRC | 23:37 | |
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| ali1234 | (and by OS i mean OS shell/UX) | 23:37 |
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| wmarone | interseting | 23:41 |
| wmarone | interesting* | 23:42 |
| javispedro | Meego with lcuk's UX! | 23:42 |
| wmarone | MeeGo should work on the AMD Fusion powered laptops/netbooks | 23:42 |
| wmarone | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMD_Fusion#.22Ontario.22_.2840nm.29 | 23:42 |
| wmarone | SSSE3 support | 23:42 |
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| maheshk | alterego, do you know how to measure GPU utilization on n900? | 23:43 |
| maheshk | any commands? | 23:43 |
| lcuk | maheshk, what do you mean? like a cpu meter but for gpu? | 23:44 |
| maheshk | lcuk, exactly | 23:44 |
| maheshk | like what "top" command shows me | 23:44 |
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| gabrbedd | stskeeps: Nice job on the IRC metrics. Just saw http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/data/irssistats.html | 23:54 |
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| CosmoHill | Stskeeps: is there an updated version? | 23:54 |
| gabrbedd | oh, wait... that's last years. | 23:55 |
| lcuk | stskeeps.subnetmask.net/irc/data/irssistats.jan.html | 23:55 |
| gabrbedd | oh well. | 23:55 |
| lcuk | that is recent | 23:55 |
| gabrbedd | my favorite is the random quote: "lbt: I don't really need to read my monitor when I'm walking away" - CosmoHill | 23:55 |
| CosmoHill | lcuk: thanks, didn't know it had changed URL | 23:56 |
| GAN900 | That's what an N900 is for! *g* | 23:56 |
| CosmoHill | the random quotes are pretty funny | 23:56 |
| gabrbedd | lcuk: Thanks! | 23:57 |
| lcuk | I should shut up on irc, I guess I talk a lot. | 23:57 |
| * lcuk wordcounts his irc logs since installing xchat | 23:57 | |
| CosmoHill | wow, I'm the 12th most used word | 23:58 |
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