IRC log of #meego for Tuesday, 2011-02-15

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CosmoHilllcuk: http://cross-lfs.org/~cosmo/cosmo_cluster/desk4.jpg I replaced the middle monitor with a 22", 1080p viewsonic today :D00:02
lcukCosmoHill, photos like that need 2d barcodes on each screen.00:03
lcukthen using complex software a tiled uniform display could be made out of them automatically :P00:03
CosmoHillsome mock up matrix hacking screen00:03
CosmoHillone I actually get windows and rocks install and configured the way I want, I can then deploy them to all nodes and create the dual boot PXE00:05
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lcukCosmoHill, sweet00:05
CosmoHillhowever it's like, two steps forward, a slide down a snake00:06
lcuksuch is life.00:06
CosmoHillsuch is windows00:06
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merlin1991CosmoHill, are you bored @ home?00:08
CosmoHillyes but that's unrelated to my discussion with lcuk00:09
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merlin1991:)00:09
CosmoHillI'm comparing Windows and Linux computing nodes for my dissertation00:10
thomasjfoxhey. Is it worth to buy a class 10 microSD card for meego on n900?00:10
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CosmoHilldepends, it would improve loading times but I'd have a look at prices for class 10 and class 800:11
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CosmoHillit there is a small difference in price then go for the class 10, otherwise the glass 8 would be fine00:11
thomasjfoxSo class 8 might still be ok? Maybe I can find a decent class 8 32gb card00:11
CosmoHillsome people are using classes 4 and 6 for the n900 iirc00:12
thomasjfoxI have the suddend urge to give MeeGo a try since last Friday ;)00:12
CosmoHillin that case I'd go for a couple of 8GB Class 1000:12
CosmoHillfyi meego takes a long time to boot the first time so don't worry00:13
thomasjfoxJust for the first boot or on every boot (not that I boot my phone very often though)?00:14
CosmoHillfirst boot from an clean install00:14
thomasjfoxah ok. That's not an issue00:14
CosmoHilljust letting you know incase you worried that you bought a bad card00:14
thomasjfoxhehe00:15
CosmoHilljust having seen something on Phoronix, are people really stupid enough to build Linux systems with PowerVR?00:15
thomasjfoxYou suggested buying a couple? Is that a good choice for experimenting or will one 16+gb card do?00:15
CosmoHillit's as if they're trying to make it imcompatable / buggy00:15
CosmoHillfrom a developer point of view you'd have a couple for different images00:16
CosmoHillor one for meego and one for your actually stuff since installing meego formats the card00:16
CosmoHillfrom my point of view it's to avoid data lose, if I can get 500 images per GB, the bigger the card the larger the potential lose. however compact flash is relative large compared to microSD00:17
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thomasjfoxSo if I just want it for development right now, would one SD card be fine? I mean, once it's installed it should be able to access the normal phone memory for the "data".00:19
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CosmoHillnot owning a N900 I can't answer that00:21
thomasjfoxah ok. Thanks anyway!00:21
trumeeWill it be possible to install Meego on the Harmattan device?00:22
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trumeeie will it be forward compatible with plain meego?00:22
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CosmoHilltrumee: there might be something about that on the wiki / forum / mailing list00:24
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trumeeCosmoHill, right will google that00:24
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trumeedoes meego have sip support?00:25
sivangtrumee: it can, even if it does not have it yet00:25
CosmoHillI can't say what that is00:25
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sivangCosmoHill: software internet phone00:25
sivangI think00:25
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sivangtrumee: are you thinking building hardware internet phones using meego's core?00:26
sivanglike snom for instance00:26
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trumeeOn maemo sip/rtp was a failure (maemo Bug 10388)00:26
MeeGoBotBug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10388 tri, Low, ---, janne.hietamaki, CLOS WONTFIX, Support blocked field for test results00:26
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CosmoHillbest not to use the  word "bug" and numbers in the same line 3800:27
trumeesivang, no i am hoping harmattan has decent sip support and not broken like maemo00:27
sivangtrumee: where is it broken with maemo? I never tried it, only skype and it is superb.00:28
trumeesivang, check out the bug 8 mentioned.00:28
MeeGoBotBug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=8 maj, Medium, ---, peng.li, VERI FIXED, [Qt demos] opengl/Sample Buffers failed due to not support sample buffer00:28
* trumee doesn't gives a rat ass about skype00:28
sivangtrumee: checking00:28
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sivangtrumee: why not? it is a superb service. a great scare for monopolozized operators in here, as well as joikuspot00:29
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* sivang notes Maemo is much freedom comapred to any other platform00:29
trumeesivang, also there is a huge thread on tmo about choppy audio which is referenced in that bug report00:29
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trumeesivang, Sip gives me more independence than skype.00:30
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CosmoHillwb lc00:30
CosmoHillah, wrong person00:30
sivangtrumee: I never had to need more then skype, and for me it is more reliable through very bad 3G data and crappy public wan00:31
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trumeesivang, skype doesnt work for me. good for you if it does00:32
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sivangtrumee: I see. so this bug is bout opengl and qml, hos is related to sip codec performance?00:32
sivangCosmoHill: err, sip is not what I said. 'session initiation protocol'00:33
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trumeesivang, crap hang on. maybe wrong bug #00:33
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sivangCosmoHill: that might be better known00:33
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* sivang likes freeSWITCH a lot00:33
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sivangand mod sofia developed by Nokia :-)00:33
trumeesivang, http://test.maemo.org/testzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1038800:34
trumeesivang, N900 doesnt ork well with FreeSwitch00:34
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* trumee has both asterisk and freeswitch servers00:35
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trumeesivang, check the bottom of the bug report for a wav file00:35
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sivangtrumee: well, you said there is a bug in sip or sluggish audio? (this is actually bug in the codec, as sip is very close to http )00:37
trumeesivang, yes it is more of an rtp issue00:38
sivangtrumee: right, and yo are not using srtp yes?00:38
trumeesivang, no. dont think N900 supports srtp00:38
sivangok00:39
trumeesivang, my question is whether somebody is testing meego for sip/rtp or not.00:39
sivangtrumee: good question, let's head over to meego-qa although most people are asleep there or out for the day00:39
sivangtrumee: better yet, can you post a thread to meego-qa ml?00:39
sivangtrumee: that will make sure there is a response00:40
trumeesivang, yup. could do that00:40
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CosmoHillit's between 10:40pm and 12:40am for most of europe00:40
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sivangtrumee: I would be very thankful if you do and will try find an answer.00:40
sivangtrumee: can you please CC me directly onto the mail to the ML?00:41
trumeesivang, ok00:41
sivangtrumee: appreciated, thanks.00:41
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sivangtrumee: you have my email?00:42
trumeesivang, would need that.00:42
trumeesivang, does meego care about maemo bugs?00:42
CosmoHillsivang: he also has your number and home address, infact he's over the street in that bush00:42
sivangCosmoHill: hehe, I'll start screaming00:43
* sivang screams in panic00:43
CosmoHillroger that, I'll listen out for a girl00:43
GAN900trumee, no.00:43
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trumeeGAN900, gstreamer libraries are shared between maemo and meego. and the bug is in gstreamer.00:44
sivangtrumee: if the same module used for that in maemo is now used in meego then the bug might have been propogated there, however, I a not so sure about how power saving is working on handset meego right now, so it might not symptomize just yet. Better email the -dev and -qa MLs and we see tomorrow00:45
sivangtrumee: where's the evidence it is in gstreamer?00:45
sivangtrumee: (/me reads on)00:45
trumeesivang, it is an rtpjitterbuffer issue which sits in gstreamer00:46
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sivangwhat's the arg to find to scavange for symlinks?00:48
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sivangtrumee: ok, is there a patch somewhere already?00:49
trumeesivang, no. it is still not solved00:50
sivangtrumee: I am going to test it, I am preparing a meego boot for my N900 as we speak00:50
sivangtrumee: but I don't know if there is a sip UI in the current handset UX00:50
* sivang will check00:51
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trumeesivang, thanks00:51
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sivangtrumee: I guess I need to setup freswitch for that or asterisk or just use some free sip provider?00:52
sivange.g., I want to register to the pbx etc00:52
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trumeesivang, yes00:53
sivangtrumee: k00:53
trumeesivang, if you have any UI let me know, i will setup access to * for you00:54
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sivangtrumee: ah great, save me pulling hairs with asterisk or freeswitch. Although freeswitch is mych more saner in my taste00:57
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DawnFosterFYI, since some of you have been asking for an update from Intel: http://meego.com/community/blogs/imad/2011/update-intel01:13
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CosmoHillthanks DawnFoster and thank Imad for us too :)01:18
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draganWill MeeGo APIs still be Qt based?01:22
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aukedragan: ask the TSG01:27
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trumeesivang, you received my email?01:29
trumeesivang, i didnt receive any confirmation email from meego-qa list, so not sure if it went through or not01:30
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drag0nzhey guys, do apps running on MeeGo 1.1 core will automaticly run on Nokia N900?01:36
trip0i don't understand the question01:38
trip0will app from 1.1 core run on the n900?01:39
trip0sure, if they are installed01:39
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sivangtrumee: you ad to register01:40
sivangtrumee: did you register?01:40
trumeesivang, yes i did register on meego.com01:41
sivangtrumee: okay, send a hi to the mailing list and let's if I see it as well01:41
drag0nztrip0, yeah thats what i mean.. ive been using the N900 and i just checked meego.com and so there is a live image of Meego 1.1 to b downloaded01:41
drag0nzso i was wondering if an applications is running on that core software, it means it will run just fine on the N900 device01:41
trumeesivang, i cc'ed the email to you01:42
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thiago_homedrag0nz: do you mean an N900 running MeeGo?01:44
thiago_homedrag0nz: or do you mean an N900 running Maemo 5?01:44
thiago_homeif you meant the latter, note that you may need to recompile01:44
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sivangtrumee: yes, I see I thik it is okay. if you got no error from qa then it is there.01:48
sivangtrumee: in the mailing list, so peopel will see it in the morning01:48
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trumeesivang, right01:49
lolloohttp://www.concept-phones.com/nokia/nokia-n950-brings-twist-original-design-n900/01:50
drag0nzthiago, yea, thanks01:51
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lolloohttp://nsuffys.blogspot.com/2011/02/un-successeur-au-nokia-n900-le-nokia.html01:52
sivanghmm, why can't I find raw images from here:01:53
sivanghttp://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/01:53
sivangI want a recent daily01:54
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berndhssivang: I think they are weekly now, in the 1.1.90/ directory01:55
sivanghey! it is here :)01:55
sivanghttp://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/1.1.90/1.1.90.2.20110208.4/handset/images/meego-handset-ia32-pinetrail-mtf/01:55
sivangis this the intel UX?01:55
sivangfor the n900 ?01:55
sivangberndhs: when has this changed?01:56
berndhsno idea, I didn't do it :)01:56
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DawnFostersivang: definitely not an N900 image02:01
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DawnFosterN900 is ARM / pinetrail is Intel02:01
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sivangDawnFoster:  it said handset ;) my bad02:01
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sivangoh and has ia3202:01
sivanggeez02:01
sivangI haz ta sleep02:01
aukeyou better haz sleep02:02
sivangwhic IIRC is 'Intel Architecture' right?02:02
sivang32bit02:02
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sivangauke: good night!02:02
* sivang nights all02:02
CosmoHillbye bye person02:03
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sivangCosmoHill: I hope I still am :)02:06
* sivang -> zleep02:07
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Venemothiago_home: ping02:09
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CosmoHillanyone else find it questionable that there is 4 people / nicks in here from xob.kapi.fr ?02:14
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berndhswhy is that unusual ?02:17
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CosmoHilljust seems weird02:18
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CosmoHillsome people will have a nick for work and one for home02:19
berndhsmaybe they're taking over02:19
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CosmoHillan interesting and disturbing program on bbc302:25
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LantiziaHey sorry for being dense here, but after watching a few elop videos I'm getting the impression Windows>Symbian... but MeeGo seperate non-phone project (was always a successor to the Maemo tablet project anyway) and is unaffected?02:54
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jrayhawkIt's my understanding that Nokia has contractual obligations with Intel to fulfill, probably involving the release of a phone using Intel hardware. I assume only the executivs know if current Nokia involvement is just going through the motions until the contract is done, a medium-term hedge, or a long-term strategy.03:04
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jrayhawkThis is all speculation, though.03:05
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berndhsyeah predictions are unreliable, especially about the future03:08
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timelessjrayhawk: generally contracts with such obligations would have a penalty clause for failing to meet it03:13
timelessand the penalty is generally less than the general value of the contract03:13
timelesswhichmeans that assuming such a clause existed, it'd still save money03:14
timelessnote that i have absolutely zero knowledge of any contracts03:14
timelessso i'm willing to believe no such obligations exist03:14
timelessbut either way, if you're trying to save money, cutting and running can do that03:14
berndhsmy speculation is that this deal is done in large part to weaken the position of the symbian faction03:15
timelesskinda a waste03:15
timelesssymbian was going to die one way or the other03:15
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timelessand any idiot working on symbian who couldn't see that gets what [s]he deserves03:15
berndhsyes, but at the moment they are the only source of income03:15
timelessfalse03:16
timelessincome comes from s4003:16
berndhssymbian still was miuch stronger than the rest, they actually have produt03:17
berndhs*product03:17
* timeless fails trying to find values for s4003:17
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timelesss40 has products too03:17
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berndhsthe rest of them don't at present03:17
berndhsyes but an old cheap one, nothing to move ahead03:17
berndhsbut as I said its speculation, seeing that the symbian folks are seriously weakened now03:18
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berndhsand an outsider gets the blame03:18
timelessanyway.... most people see android + apple eating symbian's top side03:19
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timelessand some other groups eating s40's market03:19
berndhscertainly yes03:19
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timelessbut yeah, it's kinda lame, people in finland will blame a foreigner for "killing their economy"03:19
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timelesswhere the fault lies with the management from the past decade03:19
CosmoHillnokia vs nokia?03:20
timelessfwiw, i consider symbian OT for this channel03:20
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berndhsalso a lot of what Elop said was talking to investors03:20
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timelessberndhs: you mean at an investor event, he'd talk to investors? unbelievable!03:21
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berndhsyeah strange isn't it03:21
CosmoHillberndhs: having 5 nicks might not be odd but it's annoying when they all come and go at once03:21
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timelessabsolutely shocking!03:21
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timelessanyway, part of his job is to set expectations03:21
berndhsI only have 3 nicks, and use them one at a time :)03:22
timelessand part of his job is to clean up the company03:22
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timelessit seems like he's working on both03:22
timelesswhich i guess means he's doing his job03:22
berndhssure03:22
berndhsif the product stragegy works, who knows03:22
* timeless shrugs03:22
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timelesshe needed a strategy which would provide for a number of devices by a certain time03:23
berndhssuccess could be based on better 3D, better 4G, or shinier buttons03:23
timelessand he needed to kill Ovi03:23
timelessmeego as designed in house was not going to enable Ovi to be killed03:23
timelesswhich is unfortunate03:23
timelesssymbian as designed in house also didn't enable anyone to kill Ovi03:24
timelesskilling Ovi is important. and it will die. yay!03:24
timeless[celebrate]03:24
berndhsprobably yoo many factions blocking any movement inside teh company03:24
timelessnah, we have lots of movement03:24
timelessin lots of conflicting directions!03:25
pupnikright03:25
berndhshowever, back to meego, Imad made a really important point - most investment and work in meego has been from intel03:25
timelessever watch those videos that try to explain hot gas atoms to children?03:25
timelessit's like that03:25
timelessberndhs: he's absolutely correct03:25
berndhsyes i see the point, lots of movement and no forward progress03:26
timelessyou must have taken a physics class03:26
berndhsseveral :P03:26
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timelesshere it's more important to go speeding around [in circles] than to have a useful velocity :/03:26
* timeless is hoping that will change03:27
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berndhsi tried the latest handset image on my laptop, it connects ipv6 automatically03:29
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CosmoHillcyas03:35
berndhsnight03:36
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Venemotimeless: what do you think of http://nokiaplanb.com/ ?03:48
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timelessthey're deluded03:49
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berndhsisn't hiring preference by age illegal in most places now ? not that it isn't done anyway03:50
timelessReturn ..to a strategy ..through ..unrivaled user experience.03:50
timelessnot something nokia really ever had03:50
timelessVenemo: that also can't spell Qt correctly03:51
timelesswhich is hardly a glowing advertisement03:51
Venemohehe03:52
berndhsmaybe to focused on apple03:52
berndhss/to/too/03:52
infobotberndhs meant: maybe too focused on apple03:52
timelessnot announcing their intention to terminate Ovi also doesn't win my vote03:53
timelesssome of their points aren't bad03:53
timelessbut they're missing key points03:53
timelesse.g. getting rid of nearly all management layers03:53
timelesspersonally, i'd buy the company, and then terminate everyone and take the money and give it back to the share holders03:54
timelesspeople could then start a new company if they wanted03:54
* timeless wonders how nokia's book value compares to its stock value03:55
berndhsisn't ownership widely dispersed ? as in, nobody even owns 2 % ?03:55
timelesssadly03:55
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timelesshttp://www.nokia.com/NOKIA_COM_1/About_Nokia/Financials/Financial_Statements/pdf_2009/Shares_09.pdf seems to indicate they have ~4billion shares04:00
timelesshttp://ycharts.com/companies/NOK/cash_on_hand claims 13billion[usd]04:00
timelessdarn04:01
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timelessso, price would need to drop to ~3USD/share04:01
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Aranel<Aranel> Anything new today on MWC? Except Medfield and the tablet UI preview?04:02
timelesshttp://www.google.com/search?q=mobile+world+congress+201104:04
timelesserr04:04
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* timeless kicks google04:04
timelesshttp://www.google.com/search?q=mobile+world+congress+2011#q=mobile+world+congress+2011&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbo=u&tbs=nws:1&source=og&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wn&fp=cad9a61cefb45d704:04
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Aranelwell, I also know how to use Google News. Asked about it to see if I missed anything.04:06
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timelesshttp://konigsberg.mozilla.org/.hg/patches/apache-gzip <- is the full patch04:10
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timelesshttp://mxr-test.konigsberg.mozilla.org/mxr-test/source/.hg/patches/apache-gzip?raw=1 <- is the full patch as served with gzip04:10
* timeless hopes04:10
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ddddHello everyone! Anybody helps me?04:14
ddddI try to develop a tool to monitor the CPU usage for every process in Meego. Which API can I use?04:14
jrayhawk /proc?04:14
dddd develop a tool , I inout the process ID.04:15
ddddThen monitor the cpu usage continuly04:15
jrayhawkOr BSD process accounting v3, but that has an data/expense tradeoff.04:15
jrayhawkelsa and bootchart are examples of existing BSD PAv3 monitors.04:16
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jrayhawkand top and gkrellm are examples of /proc pollers.04:19
jrayhawkand conky04:20
timelessgrr, those were meant for another channel04:20
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ddddDoes Meego provides an API for the developer?04:21
ddddwhich channel04:21
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yuganghi04:22
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pupnikPh'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl! http://i.imgur.com/H9eXa.png   :D04:23
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ddddHello, timeless, can you tell me which channal should I ask this question? I want to know the API.04:25
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* timeless shrugs04:25
timelessisn't there already a load monitor app for meego?04:26
timelessi'd look at the task manager things for gnome/kde04:26
timelessor top/htop04:26
timelessmy earlier comment was about something i wrote  before you said hello, it wasn't even meant for this network :(04:27
ddddgot it. But I need the CPU usage in my own program.04:27
timeless?04:27
timelessmost apps for linux are "open source"04:27
timelessthat means you can read their sources and see how they work04:27
timelessif they use an "api", then you too can use that "api"04:28
ddddYeap, maybe I should learn it first04:29
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pupnikis this funnier?  http://i.imgur.com/EfzVR.png05:47
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Guest41481what is new about meego project?08:14
Guest41481I heard maybe it will change its name in the future.08:15
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henaGuest41481: to Meeblin?08:21
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Guest41481I also have no idea , maybe.08:23
zmaYouuComeBack08:23
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treebeenhttp://nokiaplanb.com/ - maybe nokia can be brought back to meego?08:54
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Stskeeps-bar, please08:54
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Tm_TI'm honestly annoyed with all the offtopic in meego mailinglists08:56
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* lofty306 tosses Stskeeps a guinness09:03
Dijit:o this isn't the bar09:04
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npmMeego 1.2 runs pretty nice on a netbook :-)09:14
npmbut is there a way of widening the "Toolbar/Nav Bar" pulldown at the top so it senses a finger? (works ok w/ trackpad, but hard to get to very edge of screen w/ fat finger and screen bezel)09:18
npmnot making it physically wider when down, but when hidden, having a wider area sensitive09:19
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dotblankhttp://www.ubergizmo.com/2011/02/intel-meego-phone-and-tablet-pictured-at-mwc/09:23
dotblankthat looks pretty cool09:23
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npmmeewant09:24
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timelesslbt: ping09:26
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timelessx-fade: ping09:29
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mecetimeless, \o09:30
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mecemece, nobody's home09:30
meceLOL09:31
* mece bonks himself on the head for being an idiot09:31
mecetimeless, nobody's home09:31
timelessthanks09:32
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freaksedcan anyone lend a thought on getting qjackctl working on meego? i havent been able to figure out how to get rid of the x11/xatom.h missing error09:38
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freaksedhas anyone had success installing qjackctl on meego?09:47
timelessfreaksed: do you have xorg-x11-devel?09:48
freaksedi was having trouble finding it in the repository09:48
eg81freaksed: zypper install xorg-x11-proto-xproto09:49
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timelesshttp://download.meego.com/live/MeeGo:/1.0:/Netbook/MeeGo_1.0/repodata/repoview/glew-devel-0-1.5.2-1.2.html09:49
timelessproto-xproto? wow09:50
freaksedah i think i remember seeing that it the list, and links! sweet09:50
freaksedthose look like what im looking for, thank you09:51
eg81timeless: rpm -qf /usr/include/X11/Xatom.h09:53
eg81xorg-x11-proto-xproto-7.0.17-1.3.i58609:53
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timelesseg81: that only works if you have it handy10:00
meceoo... ivi looks pretty sweet! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJhLah_u_4U10:01
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hlzxyI use rsync to load meego packages but failed, do server work well or my host problem?10:06
Stskeepsboth maybe10:06
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hlzxyanyother way to load ?10:09
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Stskeepswe use oss/ and non-oss/ now, not "core"10:09
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hlzxybut nothing on ftp://mirrors.kernel.org/meego/builds/1.1.90/1.1.90.2.20110208.4/oss/ ,do its'resource from that url when I load?10:13
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timelessStskeeps: oh joy10:15
* timeless loves the random renames in meego10:15
Stskeepstimeless: it was announced, though10:15
vgradehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmXi50cC6Nc, tabet ux devs10:15
timelessyeah, my computer doesn't parse announce10:15
timelessStskeeps: can i get people to actually file bugs or update a script if they do things like that?10:16
vgradeany of you guys on here?10:16
DijitI'm here10:18
timelessDijit: i think he wants to know if you're in the video ;-)10:18
timeless(he failed to ask that, but hey)10:18
Dijitoh10:18
DijitI probably am.10:18
DijitI'm in all the videos10:18
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mecePeter Schneider is ever positive :)10:19
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timelessmece: that's his job10:21
timelesshe's in marketting10:21
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timelessmece: when do lbt/x-fade generally de-idle?10:26
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MirvI guess lbt generally around now, but depends of course what stuff to do10:35
mecetimeless, I would have thought they'd be here by now.10:36
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dneary_Anyone with a few euros lying around should probably buy some Nokia stock about now10:49
dneary_It hit bottom at $8.8010:49
dneary_And will rise a few percent today10:50
* dm8tbr lacks the monopoly money right now10:50
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lbto/10:51
odin_Happy Birthday MeeGo is it day10:51
Stskeepsyeah10:51
Dijitheh10:52
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DijitI wish I could invest in nokia right now10:52
dneary_There's a common effect at work: some news comes out, people react badly, and the stock over-sells10:52
Dijitbecause when they bounce back.. I'd be rich10:52
*** Stskeeps changes topic to "Channel for general discussions about MeeGo | MeeGo project info: http://meego.com | This channel is logged at http://mg.pov.lt/meego-irclog/ | IRC guidelines and more info: http://bit.ly/cYT2Hs | For 'bar' talk (rumours, gossip, etc), please go to #meego-bar | HAPPY BIRTHDAY MEEGO! - it's really been a year to day zero :)"10:52
dneary_Until the point that it's really cheap10:52
dneary_And then rebounds a little - all the news is priced in10:52
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odin_show us the chart of the previous low (before the price in)10:53
* dazo takes on the provocative prophesy hat10:53
dneary_odin_, I reckon yesterday evening10:53
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dneary_Sorry - Friday evening10:53
dazoDijit: Nokia will go even lower and will be bought up by Microsoft ... Finland offices will be closed down, and a Microsoft is happy10:53
Dijitlol10:53
* dazo takes off the provocative prophesy hat10:53
Dijitpessimist much?10:53
dneary_And the Monday morning selling was people who didn't really understand what was happening & saw the stock drop over 10% in a day10:53
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dneary_But then again, even a dead cat bounces on its way down, they say10:54
DijitxD10:54
DijitElop must have an agenda.10:54
dneary_Sometimes you see a downward slide up-tick before carrying on down10:54
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dazoDijit: Nokia has said no Qt for WP7, Symbian will die slowly and MeeGo will not get much attention ... rumours about massive downsizing is already swirling .... Nokia will pull themselves out of MeeGo, because they will focus on the hardware now and let Microsoft do the software10:54
Dijitwho walks into a meeting with "the devil" without a plan?10:54
dneary_(that's the people who had short options on the share buying to fill their option)10:55
Dijitdazo: have you seen the stuff surrounding meego?10:55
Dijitit's not just nokia10:55
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dneary_Dijit, You're assuming he isn't an emmisary10:55
TuOki^http://nokiaplanb.com/10:55
dneary_A Trojan Horse10:55
Dijithaha10:55
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mak1HEY GUYS I KNOW I M ON THE WRONG CHANNEL BUT CAN ANY ONE TELL ME HOW TO CONNECT TO EFnet..10:56
dneary_TuOki^, That has no chance, I'm afraid. The board has spoken10:56
dazoDijit: I'm not saying MeeGo will die ... but Nokia + MeeGo is a dead horse ... MeeGo on the tablets, In-Vehicle and set-top boxes, MeeGo got big chances there10:56
DijitI know this may seem bad, but no matter what happens, meego will live on, it already has been snapped up by a lot of car manufacturers for infotainment systems10:56
Dijitit's the standard in most places10:56
Dijitit's going nowhere.10:56
TuOki^i allready send email those guys and said that i can give my share proxy to them10:56
Dijitnokia can either make money on it, or not.10:56
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Dijitbusiness wise... elop would be a fool to stop production.10:56
timelessdazo: why should microsoft buy nokia?10:56
dazoDijit: and in addition ... Intel and ARM is competitors ... that Nokia, driving the ARM part in MeeGo with hardware now pulls themselves out, is not a bad thing for Intel10:56
Dijittimeless: patents10:56
timelessright now microsoft gets large distribution at minimal risk10:56
_berto_TuOki^: http://nokiaplanc.com/10:56
timelessdijit: microsoft isn't really that big of a patent house10:57
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Dijitbetween them, they'd be able to put royalties on a computer guru sneezing10:57
ruskiemak1, try www.efnet.net10:57
dazotimeless: good point10:57
Dijittimeless: nokia is.10:57
odin_I looked over a 1 year in US markets and it was 7 months ago it was this low, and then briefly, the last Thu/Fri price was the best closing price since that low10:57
TuOki^_berto_ : heheheh10:57
Dijittimeless: GSM, Bluetooth, WiFi10:57
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Dijit3G10:57
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timelessyou missed a couple of interesting areas10:57
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* Dijit shrugs10:58
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timelessbut i don't think microsoft really cares10:58
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DijitI think they do10:58
dazotimeless: Microsoft cares about getting a real hardware vendor commitment for shipping WP7 phones .... Nokia gives them that now10:58
Dijitthey've mentioned "an interest"10:58
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timelessanyone here familiar w/ meego repository structure? i'm wondering how likely http://pastebin.mozilla.org/1063213 is to give me something useful10:59
timelessdazo: yes10:59
timelessbut why buy it? there's no point10:59
timelessms is generally happy when it has multiple vendors taking/sharing risk for it10:59
timelessbuying them is pointless10:59
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dazowell, as Dijit said, patents ... Microsoft don't have too much patents now ... but more patents in the mobile marked is not a bad strategy, and considering the battle between Nokia and Apple ...11:00
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dazoor rather, Microsoft don't have too much patents in the mobile area ... they do have quite some in the software area, I believe11:01
Dijityeah11:01
Dijitthey have a patent on the double click11:01
dazoWith more patents, they can threaten Andriod and Apple much more efficient11:01
Dijitand apple have the patent for the click and hold.11:01
Dijitso.11:01
timelesspatents don't really work that well against big fish11:01
timelessa big fish can work around the patents or counter11:02
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timelessthey're much more effective against medium sized fish11:02
abyep, most times they only used to negotiate deals11:02
dneary_Actually, Nokia Oyj is already up 2% on its closing price in the Finnish stock market this morning, will open higher on Dow11:02
dazoyeah, and with patents which they can threaten Android or Apple with ... they can dare to implement features the others have patents on in WP7 ... and if they go to attack on Microsoft, they can do a counter attack with their patents11:03
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dneary_And trey give a nice dividend (€0.40 last time, works out at a 7% yield on current price11:03
dneary_ok gotta get a bunch of work done today... off IRC11:04
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RST38hHave to wait for a few months to see what happens to the stock price11:04
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timelessso... anyone here familiar w/ rpm repo structure?11:05
DijitI'm.. familiar11:05
rasterthis nokia -> wp7 stuff has given me more amusing popcorn moments than anything has for a long time11:06
dazoRST38h: if you have faith in Nokia, that they will go up ... now is probably the best time to buy Nokia stocks, when the market is uncertain - as that drives the price down ...11:06
timelessraster++11:06
pupniki'm sticking with the cthulhu story11:06
timelessDijit: i'm considering http://pastebin.mozilla.org/1063213 as a way to get a list of packages11:06
timelessand i'm wondering if there's some value in looking in the repodata/ directory, e.g. pupnik at the *-filelists.xml.gz things11:06
rasterits almost like half the world has already dug a grave for nokia and put the headstone in11:07
timelessraster: years ago11:07
rasterbut another small group are cheering them on in their new microsoft embrace11:07
timelessand with good reason11:07
timelesswho's cheering?11:07
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Dijittimeless: it should all be contained in filelists11:07
dazotimeless: if you're interested in the filenames, then the filelists.xml.gz is a good thing ... except of that, no point11:07
rasterand tyhe rest just dont know what to make of it all and are going to just buy some non-nokia thing anyway11:07
Dijitthere is a repodata file11:07
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Dijit(or there should be)11:07
rasterits a hyper-polarising thing is seems11:08
rasterand seems mostly negative11:08
raster\:(11:08
rasterpoor nokia enignerrs11:08
rasternice shock just for the weekend11:08
odin_if they are familiar with the rpm repo, could they fix that drpm issue bug#1011311:08
MeeGoBotBug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10113 nor, Medium, ---, qiang.z.zhang, REOP, applydeltarpm failed11:08
dazotimeless: another approach is to look at the yum python code ... that might do what you're looking for11:08
Dijitdazo: I was thinking that11:08
lbttimeless: pong11:09
timelessdazo: the question is, am i better served by actually reading repomd.xml, calculating filelist's path and then reading + parsing it11:09
timelessdijit / dazo: the goal is to collect *all* rpm's assuming there's only one ver of a given package in the repo space11:10
lpotterraster: rumors of Nokia's death are greatly exaggerated11:10
lbttimeless: hmm you want a pkg DB ?11:10
timelesslbt: /query11:10
rasterlpotter: nokia wont die11:10
rasterits too big to just impode overnight11:10
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rasterimplode11:10
jonwilLast I read, xda-developers LOVES the new MS-Nokia deal11:10
lbtwe are talking about pushing REVS onto meego.com this sprint11:10
Stskeepsguys, nokia death etc -> #meego-bar11:11
ruskie:)11:11
rasterbut the question is... will nokia ever regain even a semblance of its marketshare, dominance and profitability as a result of this decision?11:11
alteregoHeh11:11
rasterstfair enough :)11:11
rasterStskeeps: fair enough :)11:11
lpotterraster: yes; meego11:11
Dijitraster: I think it will.11:11
raster-> bar11:12
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Dijitit's just opened another playform for itself11:12
dazotimeless: well, the repomd.xml should only contain an overview over the files with package information available in the repo  .... so to get packages, you must at least parse primary.xml.gz, iirc11:12
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timelessdazo: what's a primary?11:13
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dazotimeless: primary.xml.gz should contain the core packages available in the repository11:14
dazoit's kind of the primary database11:14
timelessdazo: but not actually the filenames?11:14
dazotimeless: not of the files inside the packages11:15
timelessi only care about the rpm file names, not the contents11:15
timelessi get to discover the contents when i extract the rpm's...11:15
dazotimeless: then you'll find that in the primary.xml.gz11:15
timelessall that interests me is a *reliable* way to get all rpm's from a given meego "release"11:16
mauricelynchHas anyone installed Evolution 2.32 on MeeGo 1.1?11:16
Dijitisn't evolution a bit heavy for a mobile device?11:16
Mekprimary.xml.gz and/or primary.sqlite(.gz?)11:16
mauricelynchyes but I want just try it11:16
dazotimeless: in the primary.xml.gz ... //metadata/package/location should contain that11:16
Dijithmm, mauricelynch you'll need a lot of gnome stuff11:17
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Dijitsince evolution gnome11:17
timelessok, it seems to11:17
Dijitbut I'm pretty sure it's new ground11:17
Dijitevolution is gnome*11:17
* timeless tries to decide if that's more or less efficient than just using the listing from the other level11:17
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timelessdazo: so... a quick skim shows that the data it has is really mostly worthless11:19
dazotimeless: the XML is a fixed format ... if you just base it on a file listing of files, you're depended that the web server always allows file listing + that it doesn't change the way the files are listed ... some web servers might change the layout, which changes the HTML you'll need to parse ... unless you're using ftp11:20
timelessdazo: the web server layout has changed probably a dozen times already11:20
timelessbut the problem is that its depth and general paths have changed11:20
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timelessmeaning that even if i had an algorithm for parsing a repodata/, it would have been useless11:20
timelessas for directory listing, do you think it's likely that meego would turn it off?11:21
dazoyeah, when the base URL changes, there's no way to "fix" that automagically11:21
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timelessthe wonderful thing about distributed (repositories|version control) is that there are an infinite number of possible locations11:21
timeless...11:21
RST38hhey raster11:22
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rasterRST38h: boo11:22
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bergietimeless: depends on the repo  you're working with, for the community OBS we're setting up OCS API11:22
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RST38hraster: not making an announcement at the MWC? now feels like the right time, if any... =)11:22
timelessbergie: i don't speak geek. accept-languages: en-US, en-US-perl11:22
timelesswhat's OCS?11:23
dazotimeless: I don't know if meego server admins will change their mind to turn of dir listing ... but that's a real risk ... but for yum to work, it will always look for specific files, which defines which files is to be found in the repository, so I consider this a safer path in the long run11:23
bergietimeless: http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Specifications/open-collaboration-services11:23
bergiewe have the same available for Maemo Downloads11:23
timelessbergie: that's geek-greek11:24
dazo:)11:24
timelesswhere's the human readable executive summary?11:25
timelessapropos (?)11:25
bergiehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Collaboration_Services11:25
rasterRST38h: limo went and annoinced limo4 - efl part of its spec11:25
raster:)11:25
timelessto quote Luke "what a piece of junk"11:25
lbtbergie: we have a package DB in Nokia called REVS11:26
lbtit is designed to hold authoritative info to be used for release reporting11:26
* timeless shrugs11:27
rastervoom voom11:27
bergielbt: ok, we track only community-made packages anyway :-)11:27
lbtie a diff of this weeks release vs last weeks11:27
Guest41481what 's new on MWC?11:27
timelessi don't see a commandline @ lbt http://www.socialdesktop.org/library/11:27
lbtbergie: ok-  that's good11:27
timelesswhich from my perspective makes it relatively useless11:27
timelessi'm not going to write my daemon in php11:27
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timelessnor am i going to use Qt11:28
bergietimeless: curl is your command line ;-)11:28
lbtbergie: but I'm hoping to push/support builds on top of meego11:28
lbttimeless: REST?11:28
timelessbergie: yes, i'm using curl11:28
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timelesslbt: if i have to write a huge parser engine to deal w/ OCS, then it's a waste of my time11:28
timelessi'd rather crawl to HEL and back11:28
* dazo wonders what's the point of going one extra step, to end up in practically the same place11:28
lbttimeless: awww11:28
timelessdazo: exactly11:28
lbtyou want to grep xml... go ahead11:28
timelessi'm pretty sure i'm already there skipping the xml11:29
lbtthe sane development people use json11:29
timelesslbt: i'm quite happy to just parse html11:29
Mekyou can also opt for primary.sqlite instead of primary.xml for most repos :P11:29
dazojson == XML replacement for those struggling to understand XML implementations11:29
lbtI was offerering you a "curl http://all_packages_in_release_X"11:29
* dazo hides11:29
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lbttimeless: yeah ... welcome to the 90's11:29
timelesslbt: via revs?11:29
lbttimeless: yes11:30
lbtthat's the point of it11:30
timelesslbt: hey, i grew up there, it was a nice peaceful place11:30
timelesslbt: i'll let someone drop that in when it arrives11:30
lbtto provide a consistent API to MeeGo-ish package data11:30
timelessthat sounds tolerably usable11:30
timelessOCS seems like an utter waste of effort11:30
lbtI want to ensure it doesn't clash with bergie's work11:30
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lbtOCS is about as much use to you as openGL11:31
lbtdoesn't mean it's not relevant to other people11:31
lbtso don't be so offensive11:31
bergielbt: the OCS stuff is mainly intended for "app store"-like clients11:31
bergieit could be used for reporting, but that isn't really the intended purpose11:31
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timelesss/of/of *my*/11:31
infobottimeless meant: OCS seems like an utter waste of *my* effort11:31
lbtbergie: yeah - I wasn't sure how REVS/OCS would interact (if at all)11:32
lbtquim had an issue on one bug report11:32
lbtand it makes sense just to check11:32
timelesslbt: yeah, the comparison w/ openGL is pretty accurate11:32
lbtespecially since REVS may now watch community areas if I get my way (which is not likely)11:33
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mauricelynchDijit: Thanks :)11:34
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timelessyeah, that's also a problem11:34
timelessi'm not interested in implementing something that only covers 30-70% of a problem space11:35
timelessif i have to do something else for the other side, and that something else works on both sides, then, it's just extra effort for no gain11:35
sivangmorning11:36
sivangtimeless: what are you implementing? :)11:36
timelesssivang: same thing i'm always implementing :)11:36
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sivangtimeless: microb/firefox?11:36
timelesspbbt11:37
* sivang googles11:37
sivanghttp://www.pbbt.com/pbbt.shtml ?11:37
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RST38hraster: LiMo is nice but will we see open devices with it at the MWC?11:42
RST38hXML == bunch of non-programmers reinventing hierarchical data storage and predictably failing at it11:43
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RST38hHence json.11:43
rasterRST38h: can't say :)11:44
RST38hraster <== positively evil11:44
rasteri just dont like xml because its verbose as all bejesus...11:44
rasterand requires PARSING11:44
rasteri hate parsing11:44
RST38hraster: If you do not like XML, check out XPath, XSLT, XSD, etc11:45
rasterwhy people arent happy with nice container binary formats i dont know :)11:45
rastereg11:45
rasterHEAD11:45
rasterSIZE11:45
rasterDATA11:45
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rasterDATA11:45
raster...11:45
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rasterHEAD11:45
rasterSIZE11:45
rasterDATA11:45
raster..11:45
rasteretc.11:45
rasterand just let u ned them11:45
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RST38hraster: And if your stomach is still full, check the available tools, THAT inevitably causes people to throw up11:45
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rasterany element of a list  can be insta-skipped by just movign forward SIZE bytes :)11:46
RST38hraster: You are describing IFF format (Hello, AmigaOS)11:46
rasteru can also throw in tag names into the data segment trivially11:46
rasterRST38h: indeed i am :)11:46
rasterwhat do u think i grew up on? :)11:46
RST38hYes, it is one way to store hierarchical data (also see SNMP, XRDB, and to some degree .INI files)11:47
rastermy trusty a50011:47
rasterand before that c64's and vic20's11:47
raster:)11:47
RST38hA2000 then A3000 here11:47
rasteroh hyper high-end11:47
RST38hUnfortunately, non-geeks do not understand this binary crap, they like little roman letters and cute brackets :)11:47
javispedro cute?11:48
RST38hraster: Bought both used, for relatively cheap11:48
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rasterRST38h: just provide a compielr/decompiler :)11:48
rasterRST38h:  used... damn. i had to get my s500 new in 8811:48
rastererr a50011:48
rasternot cheap11:49
RST38hI used MSX in 8811:49
RST38hAnd a bunch of self-made machines immediately after that11:49
rastermsx11:50
rastergod.. wow11:50
rasterniche!11:50
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RST38hMaybe niche where you were, but not in .SU11:50
RST38hAmiga was rather niche there though, mostly owned by musicians and video studios11:51
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rasterhmmm11:51
rasternon-globalized world back then11:51
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raster:)11:51
abyep, MSX were almost everywhere, along with PDP-10/11 offsprings11:51
rasternot in au11:52
rasteri had heard of them11:52
rasternever seen one11:52
RST38hab: There even was a PDP-11-compatible pocket calculator!11:52
Tm_TMemotech <311:52
ab:)11:52
RST38hab: http://www.computer-museum.ru/histussr/mk_85_1.htm11:53
abRST38h, yep, actually worked with that circa 8611:54
RST38hab: I still have it back in the US.11:54
rastertho back in 80's the amiga (a1000, a500) did run rings around the msx in hw11:54
rasteru didnt get much better than those 2 back then11:54
RST38hraster: Yes, but it also was not imported in such huge numbers11:54
rasteryeah11:54
rastershame it didnt get a big enough following11:55
rasteranyway11:55
rasteriff was good :)11:55
abin 80ies I was mostly playing with BK-0010/11, Corvette and MSX11:55
RST38hraster: While the ministry of education imported hundreds of Yamaha YIS503s11:55
rasteri have ever since been influence by it :)11:55
rastereet is very iff-ey11:55
rasterwith well... some zippiness thrown in11:55
RST38hraster: IFF is still being used, just not hyped11:55
rasterand crammed into a shared lib with an api so u can forget about the format of goop11:56
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rasterand also decompile/compile to and from text too11:56
rasterit lets me fire and forget for data storage and loading11:56
rasterand i also get to not worry about performance :)11:56
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timelessok, i now have a script which can identify files from 1.0, 1.1, and turnk11:58
timelesss/turnk/trunk/11:58
infobottimeless meant: ok, i now have a script which can identify files from 1.0, 1.1, and trunk11:58
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RST38hraster: About the guy who developed AmigaOS: ""I went to see the person writing this operating system," he remembered. "We flew out to his home, where he was writing this software on a bunch of early Sun workstations. He had about four or five Suns and a big cage with a rabbit in it. And he spent a lot of time talking to the rabbit."11:58
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timelessheh11:59
RST38hApparently, talking to a rabbit is useful, design wise. I wonder who Elop is tlaking to =)11:59
javispedroa dancing monkey12:00
rasterRST38h: hhahahaha12:00
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threshmoroning12:00
zx2c4yo12:00
rasteri have a cat for that12:00
talmaiMADhi peeps.12:00
rastermy cat's name is malloc12:00
RST38hhello thresh12:00
threshanyone tried meego on archos 101 tablet?12:00
zx2c4so what the hells gonna happen12:00
talmaiMADdecided to participate in meego project since Nokia gave up12:00
rastermost of the time he doesn't have a lot to say about making a design decision12:00
RST38hraster: Does he ever...mm...free? Or does he eventually dump core?12:00
rasterexcept maybe "prrrrrr"12:00
rasterRST38h: dumps core12:00
rasterheap overrun12:01
RST38hOh, condolences12:01
rasterluckily he dumps in his sandbox12:01
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rasterso its contained12:01
raster:)12:01
Tm_Tzx2c4: life happens, just like every day12:01
zx2c4i waited so long for meego12:01
zx2c4i'm using a nokia phone from 200212:01
zx2c4anxiously been waiting to upgrade to a meego device12:01
zx2c4now what?12:01
zx2c4spent time learning Qt... I don't want to learn android or objective-c12:02
zx2c4what do i do?12:02
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mikhasgive up. obviously learning *yet another toolkit* is just a waste of time12:02
Tm_Tzx2c4: meego isn't going anywhere, it's still developed and used12:02
Tm_Tzx2c4: if you really insist you need nokia device with meego, n900 is prolly the way to go12:03
rastercould just install the x86 meego on a pc :)12:03
rasterdont need a device12:03
raster:)12:03
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talmaiMADTm_T, is Meego usable on an N900? I mean does it run smooth enough?12:03
timelesssivang: good job. you might be able to compete on Jeopardy :)12:04
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zx2c4I guess... I had looked forward to developing OSS mobile apps12:04
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abraster, how far we are from SLP being public?12:04
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Tm_TtalmaiMAD: no idea, I don't own any meego-capable device12:04
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rasterab: i can tell you many things. that is one thing i cannot tell you :) you may now ask another question :)12:04
sivangtimeless: heh :)12:05
Tm_Traster: there's non-sssesomething binaries available these days?12:05
raster(really sorry there. being open only goes so far :()12:05
abraster, that's fine, I'm not really expecting you to break your contract :)12:05
timelesssivang: finla question. the name of the recent contestant. Please remember to state your answer in the form of a question.12:05
timelesss/finla/final/12:05
infobottimeless meant: sivang: final question. the name of the recent contestant. Please remember to state your answer in the form of a question.12:05
rasteri can say that we havent had any change in direction or layoffs or downsizing etc. :) its full steam ahead here. i'm getting lost in all the groups and enigneers involved12:06
sivangtimeless: oh that is hard12:06
rasterkeep finding out about new ones al lthe time12:06
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RST38hraster: But do understand that in the light of the recent news, SLP looks like the only opportunity to have a decent handset12:06
sivangraster: working for Nokia?12:06
* sivang googles for SLP12:06
absivang, no, he is from Samsung's empire12:06
rastersivang:  nahp.12:06
RST38hraster: So, a lot of people here will be getting restless about it just about now ;)12:07
rasterim from the evil empire of the east12:07
* raster throws kimchi around the channel12:07
timelessraster: i don't suppose you could write 'Qt' without a capital 'T' on http://www.rasterman.com/ ?12:07
sivangraster: oh, I have a good friend who was a product manager in the israli branch before it got downsized heavily :-)12:07
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rasterRST38h: totally understand. it's also what i wanted. REAL linux handsets12:07
abraster, I guess many people wouldn't mind if east empire would open R&D northwest ;)12:07
RST38hraster: write it as "qt", make him happy ;)12:07
rasterlike kernel, userspace, x11, etc. etc.12:07
sivangtimeless: lol12:07
timelessoh, and then spell 'MeeGo' with a capital 'G' on the same12:08
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sivangraster: Qt on MeeGo :-)12:08
rasterits all working like a charm atm. silky smooth. pretty solid "works for me" :)12:08
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rastertimeless: i could... there. happy?12:09
dnearyhi12:10
sivangraster: nice, using your own crafted linux based cut right ?12:10
dnearyAnyone know what the IRC log file format we use is?12:10
RST38hdneary: ASCII :)12:10
Stskeepsdneary: which one of the sites?12:10
timelessraster: dunno, is the page cached?12:10
dnearyMore specifically, is it in this list? http://code.google.com/p/superseriousstats/wiki/LogfileFormats12:10
sivangRST38h: lol12:10
dnearyRST38h, They're all ascii12:10
sivangtimeless: stop using chrom!12:10
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dnearyWe're talking interchange here12:10
sivangtimeless: :-p12:10
* timeless wonders if this box even has chrome12:10
sivangtimeless: I stopped and I have a pretty life now12:10
timelessBuild identifier: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:2.0b12pre) Gecko/20110214 Firefox/4.0b12pre12:11
Stskeepsdneary: i think i convert to irssi format12:11
dnearyStskeeps, I want to get the logs parsed & into a database for analytics12:11
dnearyStskeeps, Cool, thanks12:11
sivangit happesn so that all of my browsing problem were due to Chrome.12:11
Stskeepsdneary: ok, that's possible12:11
sivangtimeless: great.12:11
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sivangtimeless: embracing the change? ;)12:11
sivangtimeless: re: os string12:11
* sivang stops trolling12:11
timelesssivang: avoiding disruption12:11
sivangtimeless: hahah12:12
rastergod damn silly capitalization goop12:12
rasterthere12:12
dnearyStskeeps, When you say "that's possible", you mean by modifying the logger, or using SSS to parse the logs?12:12
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dnearyStskeeps, Easiest is to use upstream standard tools that already work togetherr :)12:12
timelessraster: and MeeGo? :)12:12
timelessraster: thanks for fixing Qt12:12
rastersivang: yes. we have crafted our own os .. its basically debian - we rebuilt it all from scratch but its the same deb package names and content etc. for pretty much all of it12:13
sivangStskeeps: any idea where latest daily image went? I wanted to see if there's a newer image and there's only the kernel left at http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/1.1.90/1.1.90.2.20110208.4/handset/images/meego-handset-armv7l-n900-devel/12:13
sivangraster: not bad.12:13
timelessraster: sorry. personal opinion, if you're going to claim to be a  serious savy person in a given domain, you should be able to properly identify the other groups in that domain12:13
RST38htimeless <-- obviously a wikipedian12:14
RST38hWith the small "w" too12:14
timelessgiven that Nokia and Apple are hypothetically in a common domain and given that Apple has a product called 'QT' (and has for well over a decade), it's really not a good idea to use incorrect capitalization12:14
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timelessas for MeeGo, well....12:14
rastertimeless: if other groups choose bizarre capitalizations - i'm not going to go research the "right capitalization" when its irrelevant to the topic :)12:15
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lpotterI prefer m33g012:15
timelesshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meego_%28TV_series%29 <- that's Meego with a lowercase G12:15
rasterif i called evas EvAs12:15
timelessand again, MeeGo the family is theoretically going to be involved in the TV space12:15
rasterand u didnt captialize it right12:15
rasteri wouldnt give a hoot12:15
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rasterit doesnt mean you know any more or less about the topic at hand :)12:15
* Lynoure prefers Mi-Go12:16
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rasterbut maybe thats just me12:16
timelessis that Ethylene Vinyl Acetate ?12:16
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sivangraster: it is going to be completely open source including drivers and everything?12:16
rasteri've learned that a boosk cover is more often than not far from the reality of its content12:16
sivangraster: you'd be surprised to learn how much good strings make you look professional and polished.12:16
rasteri've interviewed enough candidates to notice a trend12:16
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rasterthe better the dressed12:16
rasterties, suits.. nice shiny shoes12:16
rasterthe less they knew12:16
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rasterthe more useless they were12:17
Lynoureraster: I wonder what you'd make of me =)12:17
rasterit was a pretty strong trend after having maybe interviewed 40 or 5012:17
rasterthis was at an investment bank though12:17
sivangraster: some companies have a code of conduct for attire12:17
rasterso who knows :)12:17
rasterSvendsen:  open source what can be made open source12:17
rastercant control 3rd party drivers12:17
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rastereg opengl libs - there are zero open drivers for arm soc's12:18
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rasterfor those12:18
rasterif u have an nvidia tegra212:18
rasteru wont be shipping any source for opengl12:18
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rastersame with any thing with an SGX12:18
rasteror mali12:18
RST38hAh, who cares, just ship stable binary drivers12:18
rasteror qualcomm too12:18
timelessraster: what did you do at the bank?12:18
RST38hAs long as they WORK!12:18
rastertimeless: unix architect12:18
rasterin tokyo12:19
rasterfor the asia region12:19
timelesscandidates were local?12:19
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rasterthey were almost entirely westerners who happned to be in tokyo12:19
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timelessok12:19
rasterthe place was peerry much western12:19
rasterlike 80%+12:19
timelesswow12:20
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rasterfull of poms, aussies, yanks, cehnucks, french... and some japanese :)12:21
RST38hraster: sounds delicious12:21
sivangRST38h: food fusion?12:22
rasterhahahahah12:22
* timeless didn't recognize poms=british12:22
rasterit wasnt a bad place12:22
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rasterit was heavily built on linux12:22
rastertrading farm and server infra all linux boxen12:23
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rasterwith some dwindling sun boxen getting the boot12:23
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timelessso, who suggested i look at repodata?12:26
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timelessafaict repodata doesn't actually give me much useful info12:26
timelesse.g. http://repo.m2.org/MeeGo/updates/1.0/core/repos/source/repodata/7bf577c2ed3ce0bf4c9a7c101ba2898544b73ef0c4b60e3e9dc645f427f1b7a0-primary.xml.gz shows 2 versions of Qt12:27
sivanghttp://blogs.nokia.com/nseries/12:27
timelesswhich means i'm stuck figuring out which one i'd actually want12:27
timelesssivang: nseries isn't dead yet?12:27
dnearyHi raster12:27
sivangtimeless: look at the date12:28
sivang15.02.201112:28
dnearyraster, Is EFL being used on MeeGo, or is there a potential Linaro hook-up, or are you just in here to gloat? ;)12:28
smokuraster, there is an open driver for snapdragon 3D.  not from qualcom though ;-)12:28
rasterdneary:  dave! wassap!12:29
dnearystuff12:29
sivangheh12:29
rasterdneary: i've been lurking here for a while12:29
dnearyI hear Intel are showing off a table this year - codename "bitter pill"12:29
rasterdneary: not glaoting - more here just to see wassap in meego-land12:30
dnearytableT12:30
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Stskeepsdneary: i wouldn't mind a table running MeeGo..12:30
Stskeeps:P12:30
dnearyThings are going swimmingly, thanks for asking :)12:30
sivangme too12:30
rastersmoku: thats my point. someone reverse enigneered.. some of it at least12:30
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* sivang goes to fetch old daily from laptop12:30
rasterprobablky not a full driver12:30
rasteri know the kernel bits are open for qcm stuff and powervr stuff12:31
rasterfor nvidia too as i gather12:31
rasterbut userspace for all is closed12:31
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dnearyStskeeps, Reminds me of this project: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2oMmCyiJZA12:31
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rasterdneary:  awesome.12:31
dnearyraster, How about where you are? LiMo 4 announced today, I see12:31
rasterdneary:  all is going swimmingly here12:32
rastermore a problem of being able to keep up12:32
rastertoo much stuff happening12:32
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rasterindeed limo4 was announced12:32
dnearyraster, Great! Looks like Samsung basically still-born Bada though... haven't heard a thing about it in a year12:32
rastertho that isnt in and of itself anything that interesting12:32
dm8tbrStskeeps: get an Archos101. the first units were shipped with a letter missing ;)12:32
dnearyInteresting in the context of Samsung staying committed to the LiMo route...12:33
rasterwhat would be is an actual product launching with a decent linux on it with an sdk that you can actually buy and use and hack away at :)12:33
dnearyYou are an ambitious little boy, aren't you?12:33
dnearyWhy, if you wanted that, you'd have to use Android ;)12:33
rasterlucky for me i am surrounded by such little beauties with their friendly little glowing screens giving me a moon-tan :)12:34
dnearyhehe12:34
dnearyAnyway... more work!12:34
dnearyBye12:34
threshdm8tbr: how does one run meego on archos 101 ?12:35
threshdm8tbr: I happen to have one here :)12:35
dm8tbrthresh: well, so far we're not thaaat far yet. step one is to install the SDE enabler firmware12:36
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dm8tbrcore somewhat worked but I'd need to check again for watchdogs etc.12:36
dm8tbrothers are working on the SGX driver12:36
dm8tbrsadly no joy with the n900 backports12:37
dm8tbrso we're hoping bug 5616 goes magically away or that the sgx core on 36xx silicon is not hit by it...12:37
MeeGoBotBug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=5616 nor, Undecided, 1.0.80.15, fathi.boudra, ASSI, Certain fonts are garbled12:37
dm8tbrI'm sure the tablet UX will give this a push12:38
dm8tbrso we're waiting for those sources to happen too12:38
Khertanhttp://twitter.com/#!/limofoundation/statuses/37247936605724672 <<< hihi12:38
Khertanlimofoundation: LiMo hopes to gain from Nokia-Microsoft pact - http://tinyurl.com/6jg825w12:38
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timelessdneary: so, who do i have to bribe to get meego.com to use www.?12:49
timelessnot using www. means that i can't do site: w/ google12:49
dnearytimeless, I'd ask Mike Shaver12:49
dnearyOr Elliot Smith12:49
dnearylbt or X-Fade would know better than me, though12:49
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timelessalso, anyone know why http://meego.com/users gives some user?12:50
dnearyAnd there are some Nokia people on that team too, but I never see them out in daylighht12:50
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dnearytimeless, Yes, yes I do.12:50
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timelessdneary: that's because we don't have daylight here :(12:51
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lbttimeless: do you seriously think that that is a good use of our time right now?12:51
timelessdneary: cool, why?12:51
dnearyThe arctic circle would be a great place to be a vampire12:51
* lbt starts ignoring irc highlights12:51
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dnearytimeless, It's a secret12:51
timelesshey, i didn't nick highlight you, that was dneary !12:52
dnearytimeless, You asked me a question that I can't answer, I pointed you at the better person12:52
dnearyNot my fault he's grumpy. /cc lbt12:52
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timelessdneary: yeah, nothing wrong w/ that12:52
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* timeless is just trying to find max12:53
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timelessgrr, is there a plan to get openid login to work the way it does at sane sites? like sf.net12:54
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timelessexpecting me to know how to spell my openid url is just mean :(12:54
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* timeless wonders if there's an openid extension for firefoxx12:55
timelesss/xx/x/12:55
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dnearytimeless, Can you find any user account older that 52 weeks & 12 hours?12:56
dneary(mshaver is older... that's that theory blown out of the water)12:56
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timelessdneary: i can't find a search ui that has anything remotely sane12:57
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timelesshttp://meego.com/search/node/ivanov in advanced doesn't offer 'user' as a search choice12:58
timelessbut no, i can't find shaver or mshaver12:58
dnearyusers/mshaver12:58
timelesswell, sure, if i knew the user name i wouldn't need to go searching for it12:59
timeless...12:59
* timeless is starving12:59
* timeless should go looking for breakfast12:59
dnearyI dunno - maybe userid 42 is chosen by default in Drupal if you go to /users12:59
timelessheh12:59
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dnearyAnd a user search for shaver gives mshaver12:59
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* timeless wonders how to find a user search13:00
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Hardeepokay I am dying of confusion here... can someone explain what the difference between the pre-alfa meego tablet ui and intel mego ui is? The intel on looks like it went backwards in functionality. There is no longer that arrow to open the "icon's home page".13:20
Hardeepetc13:20
timelessdneary: where is this mystical user search ui? :((13:20
StskeepsHardeep: press windows key13:20
dnearytimeless, You pointed me to it yourself. The User tab above the search box13:20
dnearyHardeep, I imagine that many stability issues were addressed, the touch has improved considerably, and some new apps are available13:21
HardeepStskeeps: I'm not sure if we are talking about the same thing. I'm referencing the tablet UIs13:21
dnearyBut I'm hasarding a guess13:21
StskeepsHardeep: yes, but i don't know what you mean by "icon's home page" :P13:21
timelessdneary: did not. the ui there is so bad that i didn't realize 'users' existed or wasn't highlighted13:21
lcukHardeep, applications evolve.  what device do you have the earlier version installed on?13:22
timelessthanks though13:22
dnearytimeless, In search, there's "pages" and "users" or something like that13:22
* javispedro ponders if the reason they use the Super key as "key" is because his s10-3t front keys module used Super.13:22
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Hardeepwatch at 1:42 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVIKYF7MOzU they switch to the page mode I'm talking about13:22
timelessdneary: yeah, when you pointed me to it again, i saw 'users'13:23
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timelessthat "tab" ui is horribly broken13:23
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HardeepStskeeps: were you able to figure out what I mean?13:24
StskeepsHardeep: not exactly, but did you try to install the ux?13:24
lcukHardeep, I would say get a diff of both versions, but since you have not got the original (ie vapourware) the best/simplest would be to file a feature request to put it back "because you saw it on a video"13:25
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treebeenhttp://www.youtube.com/user/MeeGoZone#p/u/1/6ukQdlkmSDA13:26
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Hardeeplcuk: so its safe to assume it was removed? I have read that Intel is keeping only the scrolling view13:27
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Hardeeppanel mode*13:27
lcukHardeep, you have the released code in front of you13:27
lcukjust like any development process things evolve, if you care about this feature, chase it.13:28
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Hardeeplcuk: fair enough seems I will have to investigate further. I was just being optimistic that someone knew if it was scrapped. I have been following meego for a while however I have not got into any technical details13:28
forcerHardeep: have you thought about why it was scrapped? I don't think they would do it without reason13:29
HardeepThanks god for the community and the other players in meego because Nokia just ripped my heart in half :(13:30
forcerHardeep: elop did, not nokia :)13:30
Hardeepfocer: yes elop* did sorry13:30
lcukin other things, is that carrypad resistive? the guy is using his fingernail13:31
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Hardeeplcuk: he appears to be using the edge of his fingers13:32
Hardeepluck: looks more like a capacitive scree,n13:33
lcukbah, at fosdem, my ideapad would not work outside because of capacitive13:33
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arfolllcuk, why would it not work outside?13:35
timelesslcuk: too mmuch moisture?13:35
lofty306what pkg system meego usse?13:35
Hardeeplcuk: yes unfortunately most of these companies use the capacitive screens now just the way of the future my friend13:35
timelesslofty306: rpm13:35
* lofty306 bangs head on kb13:35
lcuktemperature I guess, it went very spotty and unresponsive, but back inside it was fine13:36
arfolli've never had a problem outside with my nexus one's screen...13:36
arfolli think blaming it on capacitive screens would be going a little far ;-)13:36
Kevin_Bhi all,13:36
Hardeep:)13:36
lcukHardeep, if we rest on low resolution input being a way of the future then I will be saddened.13:36
lcukit is nice to have and good in some respects, but it is a step backwards in others.13:37
lofty306you serious timakima ?13:37
lofty306ack13:37
lofty306you serious timeless13:37
Hardeeplcuk: are there any alternatives you suggest?13:37
Kevin_Bwhen u think the next handset device running meego, will b released?13:38
lcukHardeep, my N900 laughs at the puny cold.13:38
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lcukthere are other high resolution input devices which may be suitable for a dual layer input method13:38
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lcuklow resolution capacitive with high resolution stylus13:39
Hardeeplcuk: lol because the N900 is a fantastic device13:39
timelesslofty306: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=meego+package+format+rpm13:39
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lofty306?nice timeless13:39
lofty306havent seen that oone in years13:39
HardeepI swear if someone gives me an official meego device I will develop till I wish I was no longer a CSS13:40
Tumi_timeless: :D13:40
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Hardeepby someone I mean the manufacturing sector haha13:40
Hardeepaka now intel13:41
Hardeep-_-13:41
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lofty306or a bunch of others13:41
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Hardeeplofty306: care to point some other promising ones in my direction?13:42
Hardeeplofty306: preferably phone or tablet specific13:42
HardeepI don't think I want to get into developing car software haha13:43
lofty306dunno yet i jumpped in yesterday and am still just seeing what is comming outta WMC13:43
Hardeeplofty306: fair enough13:43
* lofty306 shakes his head at rpm... hope it works better thaan in the past 13:44
lcukStskeeps, did you generate the IRC stats for DawnFoster yet?13:44
Stskeepsyes13:44
lcukoooh, do you have link13:44
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Hardeepanyone heard any news on the fate of Qt?13:46
StskeepsHardeep: still alive13:46
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HardeepStskeeps: hopefully it stays that way... :D13:47
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foolanohi13:55
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foolanoi'm using this image: meego-netbook-ia32-1.0.80.12.20100727.1-sdk-pre0901.raw.tar.bz2. I would like to install poppler-qt4, is there any repo I could use?13:56
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denohi there13:57
niala1hi, it's raining again.... lalalalalala13:57
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lcukit is always raining somewhere in the world.13:57
lcukthankfully, the sun is also shining too, so it balances out.13:57
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Alison_Chaikenjavispedro, I hear that you have investigated the question of display swivel on IdeaPad generating a catchable event.   With 1.1 netbook UX, I don't see anything with "udevadm monitor" or "xev," but maybe 1.2 touch system addresses this?13:58
Kevin_Blcuk : Sun is not shining at all now...13:58
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Kevin_BThe great Computing Oracle said so already13:59
Hardeepwell gnite people and thanks for the information I will be back soon :)13:59
niala1often is here lcuk... drought on one side, another flood13:59
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timophfoolano: that image is almost antique14:00
javispedroAlison_Chaiken: I don't know what exactly the 1.2 roadmap is, but I published a kmod that made some events (like swivel or front buttons) avail14:00
javispedroit should be on the meego.com forum, at the s10-3t improvements thread14:01
Alison_ChaikenThanks javispedro, I will have a look.14:01
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foolanotimoph: i see. may i ask where the lastest image is? I followed a tutorial on the meego wiki and that's where i found the link to that image14:03
niala1javispedro: question: have s10-3t right clic on touchscreen ?14:04
javispedroniala1: how? if anything, it will be software emulation14:06
niala1ok14:06
timelesson windows, you get a circle if you hold long enough14:07
* timeless never understood what that was for14:07
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niala1sometimes right clic is important14:08
javispedrotimeless: right clic if you lift the finger during the circle animation, left click hold event otherwise14:08
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javispedro(so that a window doesn't get left hold event first then right click)14:09
timeless:o14:09
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foolanothis one seems to be more recent: meego-netbook-ia32-qemu-1.1.20110104.1305-raw.tar.bz214:10
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timelessjavispedro: is that a convention of sorts?14:11
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lcuktimeless, if you think thats antique, imagine my surprise at booting up development code branch from 200814:13
lcukdoh!   s/timeless/timpoh/14:13
lcuktimoph even14:13
* lcuk stops typing14:14
timelessthanks :)14:14
timophfoolano: http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/1.1.90/1.1.90.2.20110208.4/netbook/images/meego-netbook-ia32/14:14
timophlcuk: :)14:14
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javispedrotimeless: no, operating system enforced.14:15
timophfoolano: that's the most recent development image (You can build your own image if you want a newer one)14:15
lcuktimoph, that was where I pulled up the organic/handwritten gpl from :)14:15
timoph:)14:15
timelessis 1.1 newer or older than 1.1.90?14:16
timoph1.1 is older14:17
* niala1 note 1.1.90 is not just before 1.2 ..?14:17
timelessniala1: this is linux we're talking about14:18
timelessversion numbers are intentionally confusing, random, and absolutely useless and untrustworthy14:18
lcukbut with updates may include patches from the 1.2 branch14:18
lcuk(backported from)14:18
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timelessthere were some really great debian packages with like 4 sets of lies encoded in their versioning scheme14:19
* timeless isn't sure offhand how to find that14:19
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niala1solve the problem get trunk...14:19
Dijittimeless: versions.. afaik are odd for unstable or testing. even for stable14:19
Dijitand go <$MAJOR>.<$MINOR>.<$REVISION>14:19
timeless1.1 is stable, no?14:20
timelessversion numbers are random14:20
Dijitwell, I keep hearing the words "it's broken" flying around, so I hope not14:20
DijitxD14:20
timelessand their meaning is subject to change without proper-effective notice14:20
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timelessanyway, http://mxr-test.konigsberg.mozilla.org/crawl-meego.pl seems to do a tolerable job14:21
timophx.x.80 when trunk is open, x.x.90 feature freazed, x.x.99 for rc or something like that14:21
timophhttp://wiki.meego.com/Release_Engineering/Plans/1.214:22
timelessit doesn't script the repodata/ directory, but that's trivial to do14:22
lcukI drastically need to increase my broadband speed.14:23
timophlcuk: stop downloading pron14:23
* lcuk considers phoning Virgin Media14:23
lcuktimoph, tech pron, 20110214 daily-testing images for N900 and pinetrail14:24
timoph:)14:24
lcukthis stuff runs on silicon, not silicone14:24
niala1lcuk: :) i get vinrginphone just before nokia dies. sad14:24
lcukniala1, some days I am sure my friend has better broadband out in the BVI on his yacht14:25
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timelessbvi?14:25
alteregoHeh, sat broadband isn't that bad anymore, just expensive :D14:26
lcukhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Virgin_Islands14:26
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timelessalterego: not particularly great ping times14:26
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timelessi don't think network Quake is recommend14:26
alteregoHah, no suppose not.14:26
alteregoI've been doing some work for a sat broadband company, a web based accounts and network management system.14:27
alteregoQuite cool stuff :)14:27
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* niala1 dream for sun and beach... 14:30
alteregoAre there any recommended devices to run the tablet UX on?14:30
lcukwhats the download link for tablet/slate ?14:31
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* lardman wonders if the tablet ux will build for ARM14:39
RST38hConsidering running it on N900 or a Samsung?14:39
Stskeepslardman: i'm more curious if it will be meego.com or not.14:39
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lcukwho has download link for it, I have no scrollback today :$14:40
lardmanRST38h: Samsung14:40
lardmanStskeeps: yes indeed14:40
lardmanlcuk: http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/1.1.90/1.1.90.2.20110208.4/netbook/images/meego-netbook-ia32/ ?14:40
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lcuktablet build everyone is discussing14:41
lardmanhttp://appdeveloper.intel.com/en-us/meego-iso-esla14:41
niala1http://appdeveloper.intel.com/en-us/meego-evaluation-iso14:41
lardmansorry netbook, missed that14:41
lcuklardman, I have MeeGo images for N900 and Pinetrail already downloading today14:41
lcukthanks!14:41
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polteushttp://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/02/15/nokia_shareholders_are_revolting/14:48
polteus:O14:48
Stskeepspolteus: yeah, not much related to meego.com, please take it to #meego-bar :)14:48
smokuhttps://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10260  oh how I like being treated like a moron.  very proffesional of rbradford14:49
MeeGoBotBug 10260 nor, Low, ---, robert.bradford, RESO WORKSFORME, No IM conversation active indicator14:49
smokuand very encouraging to report more bugs14:49
smokugood work... definetely14:49
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* Stskeeps looks14:51
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Stskeepssmoku: netbook ux is .. interesting design, yeah14:51
iekkunot very nice commenting...14:51
smokuStskeeps, that's not the point14:52
Stskeepssmoku: i know and it's not good behaviour either in comment or design :P14:52
smokuif you are going to treat contributors like this, wave this project bye bye...14:52
iekkuhas he invented a perpetual motion machine?14:52
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lardmanI don't suppose the last part of your bug report had anything to do with it? "USER IMPACT: Hates MeeGo Netbook UI" ;)14:53
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timelesssmoku: err14:53
Stskeepsiekku: do we have any guidelines for good behaviour on bugtracker?14:53
timelesshe smiles14:53
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timelessand isn't particularly rude14:53
timelesshe's much gentler than i generally am in bug trackers14:53
iekkuStskeeps, not good enough14:54
iekkuStskeeps, but I will check them and add my comments14:54
timelesssmoku: note that i don't necessarily agree w/ him14:54
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timelesshaving had this stuff go wrong w/ nokia, i firmly believe that you're mostly right14:54
timelesssmoku: but... what happens if you get 1000 people im'ing you while you're away?14:54
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* lcuk has that often14:55
timelessyou contribute to that problem too =b14:55
lcukhehe14:56
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lardmanwith that said, there is a fundamental problem in hiding the notification bar15:02
lardmanunless it could be made to pop up if there were a notification15:02
lardmanor somesuch15:02
lcukhiding ui on touchscreens is wibbly anyway15:02
lardmanwibbly? Bad idea?15:03
lcukthe launcher buttons on netbook ux for instance, have a pin icon in corner and an X in the shortcut bar, but you do not know the position of these nobbles until you click on the icon15:03
lcuksince you cannot "hover" on touch15:03
lardmanah ok15:03
lardmanI've not had a chance to use it, so don;t know15:03
lcukso you try to pin an app to quick launch15:03
lcukand if you miss, you launch the app itself15:04
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iekkuStskeeps, we definitely need more specific guidelines...15:04
lcukcausing that "damn" "shit" expressions15:04
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* timeless wonders what the status on unified auth for bugzilla is15:13
timelesssp3000: please remind me to ask my mac what my password for bugs-meego is15:14
timelesshrm, is developer.meego.com a secret page?15:15
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alteregotimeless: whilst it's in it's alpha/beta state yeah, they don't want google indexing or something.15:16
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alteregoThink the u/p is developer/meego15:17
alteregoOr the other way around :)15:17
alteregobbl15:17
timelessthe other way around; thanks15:17
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timelessok, that looks shiny15:18
timelesseventually when mxr is up, i'd hope it could trade spots w/ doxygen, but..15:19
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mecewow... seems intel's servers are under some seriously heavy load...15:28
mece70kb/s...15:28
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CosmoHillmece: what are you downloading?15:34
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niala1good day CosmoHill15:36
CosmoHillsalut niala115:36
meceCosmoHill, the tablet ui image15:38
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lcuka lot of the Intel meegons being used around twitter are looking very polished.15:41
lcukwere they created using the meegon editor15:41
lcukor custom artwork?15:41
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lcukfor instance: http://twitter.com/amybarton15:42
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mecethere's a meegon editor?15:44
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luisthello im using an old customized version of garage, and i updated connman from 0.60 to 0.67... now im getting ApplicationManager::ApplicationManager connman not found  can anyone help me?15:45
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lcuk[PROJECT] Custom MeeGo avatar (meegon) generator    http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=133815:45
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timelesslcuk: i think intel has an art team available, i wonder if people just ask15:48
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lcuktimeless, possibly15:50
lcukbut theres a whole set of them that look good15:50
timelesssure, and presumably they could ask the team :)15:50
timelessbut how do you find this set?15:50
* timeless isn't very good w/ this web2 stuff15:50
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lcuktimeless, I have amybarton on my twitter15:51
lcukand remarked at how good they looked, she pointed me to some of the other folks with similar15:51
lcukhttp://twitter.com/amybarton/status/3727118534338150415:52
lcuk@lcuk: Why, thank you! More of our AppUp Dev team's Meegonz: @bobduffy @KiraBoyko @rgunjan @intel_rhonda @obs3sd @maryanniannitti. Fun! :-)15:52
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luisthello im using an old customized version of garage, and i updated connman from 0.60 to 0.67... now im getting ApplicationManager::ApplicationManager connman not found  can anyone help me?15:54
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slainearfoll: how did you get your meegon ?15:57
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bunkIn case anyone is looking for a new job, the company I'm working for is looking for Software Developers in Helsinki: http://www.movial.com/aboutus/aboutmovial/careers/senior-sw-developers/16:05
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DijitI'm on a contract. can't can me for 6 months.16:07
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Dijitthey could stop me working though.. so I have no billable hours to invoice for.16:08
Dijitbut lets not let them know that xD16:08
berndhsDijit: isn't that the same thing as canning you ?16:10
Dijityeah16:10
Dijitbut I'm still an employee.16:10
DijitxD16:10
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vljhi16:13
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vljab: is there some utility function that creates an image from a filename ?16:13
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abvlj, you want QImage out of a file?16:13
vljyup16:14
abvlj, use load filter, set needed preview level16:14
absee the demos16:14
vljok16:14
vljthis is just for testing purpose16:14
abI think all typical uses are covered in that image editor demo app16:14
TuOki^well QImage has constructor which takes a fileName16:14
TuOki^ note that you need to check that which image formats are supported16:15
abTuOki^, it does not allow you to keep metadata and save it back16:15
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abneither it cares about image size. Loading, lets say, 20MPix image fully into memory is hardly needed on a mobile device unless you do processing. Yet even in that case you might do a better job16:16
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lcukab, when you save modified file using original meta data, do you also append a note to say it was modified?16:20
berndhsthere is QImage::load () as well16:20
ablcuk, libexempi does it.16:20
lcukab, reasonable enough16:21
ablcuk, though libexempi badly needs to be fixed to follow metadata working group guidelines16:21
berndhsand QImage::fromData() if you read the file to a QByteArray and then load that16:21
lcukab, yes - such thinking applies to many things.16:22
abberndhs, yep and they are just wrappers around more flexible QImageReader API which you should use if you want to be reasonable in constraint resources environment16:22
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abberndhs, unfortunately, this does not solve problems with metadata handling, neither with pixmaps and explicit memory copies and so on16:22
berndhsnot if you want to mess with the metadata, no16:23
abberndhs, what vlj doing is image processing, not visualization so he has to protect metadata16:23
abQt does not offer good means to handle image processing.16:23
vljright now I'm trying to have a way to visualize if my image processing works :p16:24
berndhsah, so for this purpose he doesn't necessarily want to even display the image16:24
ab:)16:24
abvlj, then set a preview level in quill to be something like "full screen" and ask it to give you an image. The rest will be done by load filter.16:24
abit will also cache the representation (preview level) for consequentive access16:25
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vljok thx16:26
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lcukab, which graphics formats support preview based loading?16:40
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lcuknd for those which don't, do you load the full image anyway and scale16:40
leinirjpeg2000?16:40
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lcukwell technically, jpeg should, since all you store are the various tiles and then reconstruct as required16:41
* lcuk recalls an amazing little algorithm discovery that allows jpeg lossless rotation16:42
lcukthat made me smile :)16:42
lcuk(years ago, and probably standard now)16:42
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Jaffalcuk: Yeah, most things should support that algorithm. It was reasonably well known in the 1990s16:44
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lcukJaffa, yeah it was about that time16:45
lcukwe huans have such long memories16:45
lcukhumans do as well of course!16:46
timelessWatson is better16:47
lcukprobably is16:47
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* timeless wonders if people here know what Watson is16:50
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timelessit turns out people in .au don't16:50
timelesshello qgil16:50
jonwilI know what watson is :)16:51
leiniri only know because i'm on the intertubes ;)16:51
qgilhi timeless16:51
Stskeepsmorn qgil16:51
timelessleinir: i was shocked to discover an intertube connected .au'ian didn't16:51
* Stskeeps heads to polish classes16:51
timelessStskeeps: ask your classmates if they know what Watson is16:51
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qgilWatson is a narrator16:52
lcukmorning qgil \o16:53
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timelessqgil: please state your (incorrect) answer in the form of a question16:54
qgiltimeless: are you referring to Dr Watson, maybe?16:55
timelessno16:55
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timelessqgil: you are in .us, no?16:56
* timeless tries to understand how qgil could have missed this16:56
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qgilqgil: can't read more these days, and I'm missing plenty of stuff17:07
qgilI mean timeless :)17:07
timelessqgil: http://www.google.com/search?q=watson&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:unofficial&client=firefox-a17:08
timelessIBM - Watson 14 Feb 2011 ... Watson, the IBM computer that will compete on Jeopardy!, represents an impressive leap forward in analytics and systems design. www-03.ibm.com/innovation/us/watson/ - Cached17:08
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sivangtimeless: oh!17:08
* timeless shakes head17:09
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sivangtimeless: a computer playing on jebordy ?17:09
qgiltimeless: funny, the last book I was reading these days is http://mitpress.mit.edu/catalog/item/default.asp?ttype=2&tid=589017:09
sivanghey qgil !17:10
sivangqgil: how are things?17:10
timelessqgil: interesting17:10
timelesssivang: yes..17:10
qgilsivang: things are  :)17:10
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arfollslaine: textrat made my meegon for me17:14
sivangqgil: am just checking new update on https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1108417:14
MeeGoBotBug 11084 maj, Medium, ---, ronan.maclaverty, RESO WORKSFORME, Device section burried to deep in information architecture17:14
* sivang tries to recall the user/pass17:14
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arfollslaine: I think theres a request page in the wiki17:14
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Venemow00t_: ping17:57
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luisthello im using an old customized version of garage, and i updated connman from 0.60 to 0.67... now im getting ApplicationManager::ApplicationManager connman not found  can anyone help me?18:04
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hbraggeluist: connman dbus api was renamed in 0.6418:07
luisthbragge: ok so how can i fix this?18:07
hbraggeno idea18:08
hbraggemaybe update everything that uses connman18:08
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luisthbragge: this is in the garage's code: m_connMan = new QDBusInterface( "org.moblin.connman", "/", "org.moblin.connman.Manager", bus);18:10
luisthbragge: should i change to com.meego?18:10
hbraggeluist: its net.connman now18:10
hbragge"org.moblin.connman" -> "net.connman"18:11
luistso QDBusInterface( "net.connman", "/", "net.connman.Manager", bus);  ?18:11
hbraggeyes18:11
luisthbragge: ok ill try that18:12
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Venemohey everyone18:20
VenemoI need a little help from someone who worked on the development of the Netbook UX, or just knows a lot about its architecture18:20
gabrbeddVenemo: what's your question?18:22
ablcuk: (been away) all formats supported by Qt in stock image plugins. However, on the device best optimized one will be jpeg.18:23
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Ulf_lcuk, are you there?18:48
lcukyes18:49
Ulf_Lucky me :)18:49
Ulf_lcuk, can you explain this bug a little further? https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1350918:50
MeeGoBotBug 13509 nor, High, ---, sean.v.kelley, NEW, Handset UX on pinetrail does not boot.18:50
Ulf_Thx MeeGoBot ;)18:50
lcukUlf_, I can in about 10 minutes, I was just copying the image onto a usb stick18:50
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Ulf_lcuk, cool, thank you18:50
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lcukUlf_, but the bug is quite clear, I downloaded the 20110211 image, copied to usb stick and booted from it18:51
lcukit got no further than showing the X11 cursor.18:52
Ulf_lcuk, What's happeninng for me is that the display shutsdown once X comes up and the only way to eventually restore it is to suspend and resume operation18:52
lcukonce this copies I will know if the 20110214 works18:52
Ulf_lcuk, I didn't even get the X cursor on my S1018:52
lcukhold on, grabbing device now, usb copied18:52
Ulf_lcuk, thanks for looking into this18:53
lcukUlf_, having rock solid stable handset UI on the various devices is all our problem.18:53
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Ulf_lcuk, I agree18:56
lcukUlf_, yes, the 0214 image is a regression on the 0211 image.  totally black screen now.18:56
lcukI am going to flash the 0211 image again to quadruple check18:57
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lcukahhh Ulf_ I see what you mean, I closed the lid and reopened and meego UI is there18:57
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lcukshowing at 800*480, but its there18:58
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Ulf_lcuk, yes and there is a bug open for that18:59
Ulf_lcuk, https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1351818:59
MeeGoBotBug 13518 cri, Undecided, ---, peng.li, NEW, Display frequently shuts down on Intel graphics based devices.18:59
lcukUlf_, but that now is different to as it was on 0211 image19:00
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Ulf_lcuk, We'll have to wait for Peng Li to submit an updated pvr-bin in Trunk:Testing and test again. I doubt, I will find someone to look into the issue seen with the 0211 image19:05
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lcukUlf_, that is ok, I am used to waiting.19:07
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* lcuk sends sms to fsfe19:07
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VenemoI need a little help from someone who knows about the inner workings of mutter-meego19:25
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DawnFosterVenemo: the best way to get help is to post a specific question about what you want to do or the issue you are having.19:26
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VenemoDawnFoster, I'd like to know where the mechanics take place that display one of the panels19:27
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VenemoDawnFoster, by 'where', I mean I'd like to know which method in which .c file does it19:28
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sivanganybody knows the DMC's user/pass. /me tries meego/developer19:39
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TSCHAKeeesivang: ask DJ Run.19:43
* TSCHAKeee laughs profusely19:43
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DawnFostersivang: meego/developer didn't work for you to get in past the login popup?19:58
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pupnikwheee19:59
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Tscheesy_nice - Fujitsus MH330 Netbook will come with Meego only19:59
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freaksedhello, i am having aproblem installing qjackctl in meego, i got past the xatom.h error but now have an 'EEXIST' was not declared20:17
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dnearylbt, Grats!20:19
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dnearylbt, You may also now suggest other sysops if you wish :)20:19
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freaksedhas anyone gotten around this EEXIST error while installing qjackctl?20:21
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pupnikmy qt applications take 10x as long to start as gnome apps20:35
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obit_swedenpupnik: what qt app ?20:37
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pupnikminitube obit_sweden20:39
freaksedsorry im really hitting a wall with qjackctl, on make it spits an error about EEXIST not being declared20:40
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obit_swedenpupnik:  it's really hard to know what the cause are but it shouldn't have anything to do with qt.20:42
pupnikon the other hand, i see some zippy qt apps as well.  it's all the coder's fault20:42
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pupnikldd /usr/bin/minitube |wc -l20:44
pupnik520:44
pupnik5320:44
pupnikthe qt stuff doesn't look bad at all... it's the app needing tons of media libs20:45
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timeless_xchatlbt: ping20:49
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freaksedhas anyone compiled qjackctl on meego?20:56
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obit_swedenAnyone managed to get ''Bug in initramfs /init detected. Dropping to a shell. Good luck'' when installing Handset UX from usb21:20
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freaksedwhere can i get libjack.so.021:24
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* timeless repokes lbt/x-fade21:36
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lbttimeless: hey21:37
timelesswhat's the status?21:37
* lbt is still at work :)21:38
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gabrbeddfreaksed: At the moment, you have to compile it by hand.  There's no package for it.21:43
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freaksedi found out i have it but qjackctl insists that it cans find it21:44
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freaksedgabrbedd: qjackctl says cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory, but i saw the file21:46
gabrbeddfreaksed: Did you compile both by hand... or... how did you get jack and qjackctl.  And which version of jack?21:47
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freaksedgabrbedd: yes i had to compile both myself, it was jack1, the repositories for meego dont have any jack software21:48
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gabrbeddfreaksed: Yes, I know.  However, I've known some folks to try and use Fedora/CCRMA rpms on meego.21:51
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gabrbeddfreaksed: Is it a runtime error you're seeing... or a compile time error?21:51
freaksedgabrbedd: runtime21:52
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gabrbeddDid you install jack to /usr ?21:52
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freaksedgabrbedd: though there were plenty of compile errors i had to get past21:52
freaksedgabrbedd: yes, they are both in /usr/local/bin21:52
freaksedand the libjack is in /usr/local/lib21:53
gabrbeddfreaksed: What is the exact error that qjackctl gives you?  (word-for-word)21:53
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freaksedgabrbedd: qjackctl: error while loading shared libraries: libjack.so.0: cannotopen shared object file: No such file or directory21:54
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gabrbeddfreaksed: After installing the lib, did you run `sudo /sbin/ldconfig` ??21:55
freaksedgabrbedd: no21:56
gabrbeddfreaksed: That's probably the problem.21:56
gabrbeddfreaksed: Run it now, and then qjackctl will probably be able to find the lbi.21:56
freaksedgabrbedd: i just tried running that and nothing happened21:56
gabrbedds/lbi/lib/21:57
infobotgabrbedd meant: freaksed: Run it now, and then qjackctl will probably be able to find the lib.21:57
gabrbeddThanks, infobot.21:57
freaksedgabrbedd: that command just went to the next line without any output, and then qjack still gave the same error21:58
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bunkfreaksed: Please run21:59
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bunkls -la /usr/lib/libjack* /usr/local/lib/libjack*; ldd `which qjackctl`21:59
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bunkand paste the output to pastebin.com21:59
freakseddoing that now, thanks for all the help everyone22:00
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freaksedbunk: its up22:02
bunkfreaksed: URL?22:02
freaksedbunk: 3VdLVANg22:03
bunkgit it22:03
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bunkwrong ticks, please try "ldd /path/to/qjackctl" (with whatever is the correct path to the program)22:04
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bunkyou should get something like 10 or 20 lines of libraries listed, and that's the output I'm looking for22:05
freaksedbunk: ammended it22:05
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bunkah, try22:06
bunkLD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/local/lib qjackctl22:06
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freaksedbunk:IT WORKED, thank you so much22:07
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freaksedbunk: did that point it to the right place permanently? or will i need to run it with that command in the future22:08
bunkfreaksed: That only works when this environment variable is set, for doing it permanently there are 3 choices:22:09
bunk1. install the libs to /usr/lib  ("./configure --prefix=/usr" when building libjack)22:10
bunk2. compile an rpath into your program22:10
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bunk3. add /usr/local/lib in a file in /etc/ld.so.conf.d/22:12
freaksedthat last one looks the simplest... whats the drawback22:13
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bunkthere should be none22:14
freaksednice is that file called tracker-i386.conf?22:15
bunkyou should rather add a new file22:15
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freaksedah ok, does it have no be named a certain way?22:16
gabrbedd/etc/ld.so.conf.d/freaksed.conf22:16
gabrbedd:-)22:16
gabrbeddProbably just need to make sure there's a ".conf" at the end.22:16
freaksedcool, saved lives you did22:16
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timelesslbt: how late do you work? :(22:34
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lbt11pm-midnight usually22:35
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vljhi22:50
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lardmanwhat do I need to stick in my .ks to have dhcp installed?23:01
gabrbeddlardman: dhcp server?  Or client?23:03
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lardmanclient23:03
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gabrbeddlardman: isn't it connman that does it?23:04
lardmanprobably, but I can't start X. Does conman work from the term?23:05
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gabrbeddlardman:  Honestly... I'm not sure what does it... but I've never had trouble connecting via DHCP over ethernet... even when X11 doesn't start.23:06
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gabrbeddIt just works.23:07
gabrbeddSo, maybe it's connman doing it... maybe something else.23:07
lardmanunfortunately it doesn't here, but I'm working on it23:07
lardmannah conman isn't started23:07
lardmannevermind, I should be able to set a static address anyway23:09
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* lardman goes to check his wpa_supplicant.conf file23:10
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