IRC log of #meego for Monday, 2011-02-14

dm8tbr	jbos_bk: just a policy away :)	00:00
jozefk	how about nokia and phones? are they planning to make some phone with maemo or meego after n900?	00:00
jbos_bk	(btw. when will be deadline for 1.2 Applications, and how can we manage to get our application in 1.2 release=	00:00
mikhas	jozefk, if no one uses the weeklies, we cant fix bugs ;-)	00:00
jbos_bk	jozefk, yes they say the work on one.... I think that is true.	00:01
jozefk	mikhas, I thought developers use weeklies :)	00:01
dm8tbr	jbos_bk: I think there was already a freeze, but I didn't pay attention. you can of course build _for_ 1.2	00:01
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lcuk	mikhas, you should be using the daily testing images at least	00:01
mikhas	well, the way I "use" software while developing is very different from you using it	00:02
jbos_bk	there was a 'core' freeze iirc last week	00:02
rzr	http://www.msqt.org/activeqt-opengl.html	00:02
lcuk	http://download.meego.com/testing-daily/builds/trunk/	00:02
mikhas	the deal goes like this: you report, devs fix, you test & verify (assuming "you" is an user of F/OSS)	00:02
jozefk	there should be testers. developers, testers and users right?	00:04
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jozefk	if no users then nobody really need the OS	00:04
jozefk	:)	00:04
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jbos_bk	lbt, ok so lets say i would be happy to contribute help in that direction (to get some first policy on the way) what are the relevant people, outlines, places to put those stuff, who makes the decision in the end to go with it	00:04
mikhas	testers = users	00:05
jozefk	yes but not for weeklies	00:05
mikhas	oh sure, even for that	00:05
jbos_bk	its a bit unclear for me right now. I think there is something like a base around so ...	00:05
lbt	jbos_bk: me, X-Fade and jaffa decide	00:06
lbt	feel free to start putting stuff up in that Team page	00:06
CosmoHill	has source forge changed their website?	00:07
jbos_bk	I suppose you do have already something in mind some outline some expectations on how it should finally be :)	00:07
lbt	my blog post	00:07
jbos_bk	ok	00:07
lbt	that's a kind of meta guideline thing for discussion	00:08
jozefk	ok. :) i'm actually not the one then. :) I can report things from final releases. but I never use betas and RCs... and I know no OS is perfect. what makes you feel the OS is ready for final release?	00:08
lbt	Team is actually a pretty simple area I think	00:08
jozefk	it can be a time schedule. but it's not always the reason	00:09
lbt	Surrounds is most complex and depends on MeeGo direction as per http://mer-l-in.blogspot.com/2011/02/what-now-for-meego.html	00:09
jbos_bk	well i think this Team 'Project' Area is neither the less most important for Teams willing to contribute for Meego Baseline.	00:09
lbt	Apps is also fairly easy based on maemo.org app process and policy	00:10
lbt	yes, Teams could be a good place to push to core	00:10
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lbt	but I personally would like to see less in core rather than more	00:10
lbt	and I'd like to see meego.com 'sign' Team release areas	00:11
lbt	somehow	00:11
jbos_bk	yes, well of course you need to basically allow teams to make up the decision for what meego type they deliver.	00:11
jbos_bk	so maybe a Team simply does not have the people to make there project perfect for netbook, handset and ivi	00:12
lbt	so other Team areas I expected were "KDE" and "Python"	00:13
jbos_bk	and of course what makes its quite more complicated is the fact that device vendors will bring in there own look'n'feel	00:13
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lbt	your use of Team to support something which is more of an app/middleware (?) wasn't explicit	00:14
lbt	but since LibreOffice was on my mind then this is not too far off	00:14
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jonwil	anyone here know who Tyson Key is?	00:15
jbos_bk	mhm i think its quite complicated to make the line between app for enduser and app for vendor	00:15
jbos_bk	so i wonder is this MeegoApps actually something for End Users	00:16
lbt	Apps is an OSS app store	00:16
lbt	why isn't Peregrine 'just' in the OSS app store ?	00:16
lbt	a) too big	00:16
lbt	b) has supporting libraries	00:16
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jbos_bk	so like my neighbor going in the store buy a meego device and download / install my application which i deliver through meego.com	00:17
lbt	yep	00:18
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lbt	have you followed the 'compliance' debate?	00:18
jbos_bk	http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=135 ?	00:18
lbt	OK - that's not 'compliance' but yes, that's "Apps"	00:19
lbt	http://apps-beta.meego.com/package/uxlaunch/meego_1.1_extras_handset_i586/0.50/	00:20
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lbt	compliance means that essentially your app must only link to libs in 'core'	00:20
jbos_bk	I see	00:20
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lbt	which I'd guess would be a royal PITA for peregrine	00:20
lbt	since I'd expect a decently architected app to abstract out the libs etc and reuse open source code that may not be in meego	00:21
jbos_bk	mhm well depends on the libs in core :D	00:21
lbt	OK - only core?	00:22
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jbos_bk	i think it should be fine with only core, since we kicked out meego touch, only use qml for ui and libqt4 telepathy (and some others) for the backend.	00:23
lbt	OK ... so maybe you are just an app ;)	00:23
lbt	in which case you may just need multiple maintainer support from the app store	00:24
jbos_bk	yea well, we fell like doing a sample ui to show, but everyone who like can make its own ui, its completely cut	00:24
jbos_bk	mhm what i wonder, how tide will this time obs be to an appstore	00:25
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lbt	the process will be src->OBS->appstore ... QA managed by BOSS	00:26
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jbos_bk	architectural, it should be pretty flexible giving teams the ability to turn on delivery on a base of device hardware type	00:26
Jaffa	lbt: streamlining MeeGo to be a target for vendors who want an OS base and a developer ecosystem sounds brilliant, btw. Exactly what Nokia wanted ;-)	00:26
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lbt	Jaffa: I know... I was talking to one of the internal architects last week and telling him I was writing this	00:27
lbt	"about time" or similar	00:27
jbos_bk	i see the biggest trouble in compatibility of the UI consistency... Like Nokia doing this, Intel doing that, Nomovok doing something else,...	00:28
lbt	jbos_bk: yes... you can support multiple targets from one src base if you like	00:28
jbos_bk	can or must?	00:28
lbt	nod ... I don't seriously know what 'compliant' means	00:28
lbt	can	00:28
lbt	we have to be able to slice/dice	00:29
lbt	so if you have peregrine-ivi peregrine-handheld	00:29
jbos_bk	yes. i as an application developer have the biggest doubt in creating an UI, for all meego devices, I fear that you need to make a new one for each and every	00:30
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jbos_bk	well ivi of that vendor, ivi of the other vendor.	00:30
lbt	yup... and please don't expect to have app-ui depend on app-lib	00:30
lbt	since that's not compliant	00:31
* lbt thinks that is insane (for opensource) ... hence Surrounds		00:32
sivang	lbt: writing what?	00:32
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lbt	but it's also very very hard to make work....	00:32
lbt	sivang: ?	00:32
jbos_bk	yep. So what I say is, as app dev you need to be able to not only make the cut on ivi, handset or netbook	00:32
jbos_bk	but on much more granularity - on explicit device level, like Nokia Device 1, Intel Device XXXs, Intel Device YYYs,....	00:33
lbt	that is what I expected too	00:33
sivang	lbt: trying to figure this up for community app development , reading the wiki page	00:33
jbos_bk	sook :)	00:33
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jbos_bk	s/sook/ok	00:34
jbos_bk	so this will / might happening on base of a website?	00:34
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lbt	jbos_bk: but I feel that the 'compliance' people thought that would all magically be "taken care of" by being compliant (and maybe it would - I am too infra-oriented to comment)	00:34
lbt	jbos_bk: well, clearly there is turmoil now	00:35
lbt	but we were working on all of this	00:35
lbt	recent Community Office meetings, nominations to TSG, App store dev is happening	00:35
jbos_bk	is there a need for device vendors to be compliant?	00:35
jbos_bk	to call it meego - i mean	00:35
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lbt	yes but	00:35
lbt	you can have a compliant device	00:36
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lbt	with 'extra'	00:36
lbt	but a compliant app can't rely on the 'extra'	00:36
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jbos_bk	ok	00:36
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jbos_bk	is there an official list of what is compliant, and what is extra?	00:36
lbt	so typically vendor provides something to differentiate and you can't use it	00:37
lbt	somewhere ... compliance spec	00:37
jbos_bk	iirc on maemo 5 the libqtmobility is extra	00:37
jbos_bk	which kind of sucks ;)	00:37
lbt	hehe	00:37
lbt	honestly this is possibly a bit in the air now	00:37
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berndhs	the spec has been delayed many times	00:38
Jaffa	But it's also a question of what "compliant" gives. Although, if MeeGo transitions to providing an ecosystem-in-a-box, application compliance becomes more important?	00:38
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sivang	where is help needed to make 10k of community apps for meego? :)	00:38
Jaffa	sivang: Devices running MeeGo that devs want to use, with no better alternative.	00:39
jbos_bk	i expect that vendors might not want 'compliant' apps, but only there own store	00:39
sivang	Jaffa: heh, okay :-)	00:39
Jaffa	sivang: So, I won't write an app for MeeGo Netbook, cos I just use Ubuntu. But I will write an app for Maemo, cos an N900 is my best choice for a mobile phone.	00:39
berndhs	jbos_bk: some vendors probably yes, others probably no	00:39
lbt	jbos_bk: yep	00:39
jbos_bk	mhm i actually think that is the point to start of.	00:40
lbt	it depends if they want to go to that trouble	00:40
Jaffa	jbos_bk: I suspect with where MeeGo wants to go, the fact that it can deliver x,000(,000) apps "out of the box" will be the attraction; allowing them to differentiate in the UI	00:40
lbt	Nokia probably would extend	00:40
jbos_bk	vendors must feel a need to take the store in.	00:40
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Jaffa	jbos_bk: See the reasons Elop cites in the "Burning Platform" and elsewhere for what's needed to be a successful mobile developer	00:40
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Jaffa	jbos_bk: Who are these vendors?	00:40
Venemo	Jaffa: you however may write an app "for netbooks" that runs on both Ubuntu and MeeGo netbook	00:41
jbos_bk	yea :)	00:41
sivang	Jaffa: if we have so many apps, device vendors will stack like Rolling Stones women groupies	00:41
berndhs	making a store is an investment, so some vendors probably prefer to use other's existing stores	00:41
sivang	Jaffa: do you have a link ?	00:41
sivang	Jaffa: what berndhs said, if we have the store infra already they just provide devices, install our software and we profit	00:41
Jaffa	sivang: Erm, google "Burning Platform elop" and also "ecosystem elop"	00:41
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lbt	:) o/	00:42
Jaffa	sivang: Exactly. An ecosystem in a box is what Nokia wanted, with differentiation opportunities. It will be what all mobile computing (don't know about IVI) vendors want.	00:42
Jaffa	sivang: And it makes economic sense.	00:42
Jaffa	sivang: Elop's conclusion was that Nokia couldn't wait to have MeeGo be that ecosystem (despite the advantages), and so chose Windows Phone to be his pre-made ecosystem.	00:43
sivang	Jaffa: agreed, I already agreed with that, but why is that stopping us from creating ecosystem infra now with lbt and friends?	00:43
sivang	"If you build it, they will come"	00:43
Jaffa	sivang: The value proposition of MeeGo can be: "You want to release a tablet, or a mobile phone, or a PDA? We've got the base of the OS for you, a development framework, a set of tools and a community of x,000(,000) apps ready to go"	00:44
sivang	this is the bread and butter of any open source developer	00:44
Jaffa	sivang: I didn't say it should stop us from creating that ecosystem now.	00:44
sivang	Jaffa: okay, so we agree, sorry I was not follwoing :)	00:44
Venemo	sivang: agreed	00:44
lbt	sivang: yes, but be realistic in your expectations	00:44
sivang	lbt: define reality since I jsut went though a vortex on Israeli train	00:44
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jbos_bk	coming to that point, really i wonder if its isn't a good thing that nokia took a step back	00:45
Jaffa	sivang: But it requires accepting that MeeGo is a) not a linux distro; b) not targetted at end-users directly and c) has modest deliverables and a focus on meeting the vendors & developers requirements.	00:45
valianholt	will be the MeeGo 1.2 fully stable and usable public release?	00:45
Jaffa	The developers' requirements are being met by COBS, Qt SDK etc.	00:45
Jaffa	Vendors' requirements - less so.	00:45
jbos_bk	and if this is not in the end attracting other mobile vendors to take a look	00:45
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sivang	Jaffa: okay, so besides working with Stskeeps on a platform hacking guide as we restarted those efforts ince yesterday, what else can I do to help the app developers?	00:45
lbt	jbos_bk: not really. Investment is needed. This looks like Nokia is 'droppping' MeeGo and will be used to demonstrate high risj	00:46
lbt	k	00:46
Jaffa	jbos_bk: It'll be a hard sell. Board of $MOBILE_VENDOR will ask, quite rightly, "why should we get onto the MeeGo train when Nokia, one of the co-founders of the project, has decided it's only suitable for R&D projects?"	00:46
sivang	Jaffa: I want developers! develoeprs! developers! and ready to invest much effort into it.	00:46
Jaffa	jbos_bk: That perception is the single biggest problem facing MeeGo in the next two months.	00:46
lbt	sivang: mmm how many $million spare do you have?	00:46
Jaffa	Some high profile shiny devices at MWC would help.	00:46
Jaffa	sivang: The problem is that if MeeGo gets to that "ecosystem in a box" state, it'll do well. But getting there from here will be hard.	00:47
sivang	lbt: I have quite a large debt and I was recently laid off my job due to being away too much time in meego related events :)	00:47
lbt	http://news.morningstar.com/all/business-wire/20110210007063/renesas-mobile-and-nomovok-show-the-first-meego-implementation-on-renesas-mobile-application-processor-at-mobile-world-congress-2011.aspx	00:47
Venemo	Jaffa: Intel will have the shiny devices	00:47
berndhs	how certain are we that tehre are no other manucaturers working on products now ?	00:47
Venemo	Jaffa: also there's the WeTab already	00:47
Jaffa	sivang: App developers won't develop unless it's for their own purposes or own profit	00:47
lbt	sivang: well duh!	00:47
sivang	Jaffa: meaning there must be a popular platform	00:47
Jaffa	Venemo: Intel don't make consumer hardware. The WeTab is niche and will not be mass-market.	00:47
jbos_bk	yes, i think that there will be some on Meego's MWC	00:47
Jaffa	sivang: Yup. Which Nokia was going to deliver :-/	00:47
sivang	then we must make the platform popular	00:48
Venemo	Jaffa: they don't make consumer hw right now, maybe. but they definitely have money to do so if they wanna	00:48
sivang	how hard it can be?	00:48
jbos_bk	:D	00:48
Jaffa	Venemo: And why would they want to?	00:48
sivang	I mean, it will be very hard now	00:48
sivang	but can't we do it?	00:48
Jaffa	Battery dying.	00:48
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Jaffa	G'night!	00:48
lbt	:D	00:48
sivang	nigh Jaffa !	00:48
berndhs	night	00:48
lbt	night Jaffa .... catch me tomorrow	00:48
Venemo	Jaffa: because they want to make money?	00:49
Jaffa	Venemo: Intel make money selling chips, chipsets & reference designs.	00:49
Jaffa	Venemo: No need to make consumer hardware. Of course, you could say the same about Microsoft...	00:49
jbos_bk	yes. night sounds good here too. So I think we wont solve the trouble with the store, the ui and stuff just at once	00:49
Jaffa	<gone/>	00:49
sivang	intel could subcontract a company to be a handset mfcter	00:49
Venemo	Jaffa: so what objections would they have against making money in other ways too?	00:49
jbos_bk	that is stuff which needs time	00:49
Venemo	Jaffa: anyway, they said they have something to show in MWC. let's wait for it.	00:50
sivang	can't we appeal to the fact no roylaties are paid to use meego?	00:50
valianholt	I think Intel should buy Aava Mobile and start mass production	00:50
Venemo	valianholt: :)	00:50
berndhs	Intel would have to invest time and money to establish a consumer brand of some sort	00:50
Jaffa	Venemo: Core competencies, not pissing off your customers, expertise, resources, ...	00:50
sivang	valianholt: along this lines	00:50
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* lbt wanders off o/		00:50
sivang	Jaffa: there's lots of experience in this already, from maemo and meego	00:50
Venemo	Jaffa: "Intel make money selling chips, chipsets & reference designs" -> yet they also develop lots of software	00:50
sivang	Jaffa: intel just has to tap into the community	00:50
valianholt	MeeGo + Aava mobile not just for devs, but mass product, will be true open handset	00:51
Venemo	Jaffa, sivang: anyway, what Intel and MeeGo needs is some hardware manufacturer actually making hardware for it, and also a great community	00:51
valianholt	same as openmoko is, but 10 times better	00:51
sivang	Venemo: what is great community ?	00:51
Venemo	sivang: for example, see Maemo community. or the Fedora community	00:52
Venemo	Jaffa, sivang: if they (Intel or anyone) could promise a full MeeGo port for the N900 for example, they could get hold of the entire Maemo community	00:52
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valianholt	great community is already here I think, but being pissed off from Nokia decision - see many blogposts from devs	00:52
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lbt	erm... that's being done	00:52
Venemo	yeah valianholt, and I agree	00:53
lbt	the N900 reference port	00:53
lbt	and the pulling of Fremantle to the MeeGo OBS	00:53
sivang	http://events.nokia.com/mwc/home.htm, nokia and intel are still there ? ah bad it is 2010	00:53
* sivang needs to sleep		00:53
berndhs	how big is the Maemo community ? are there enough of them to call it mass-market ?	00:53
Venemo	lbt: "reference port": afaik that's nowhere near working.	00:53
lbt	http://kgronholm.blogspot.com/2010/11/meego-conference-steelrat.html	00:53
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Venemo	berndhs: no, but it's a start.	00:53
lbt	berndhs: no, not at all	00:54
valianholt	I think many Maemo guys moved to MeeGo, some migrated to QT, some are still developing in GTK+	00:54
sivang	lbt: I can personally walk into freescale offices and talk to them, it is quite close :-)	00:54
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lbt	Venemo: http://valtterihalla.net/	00:54
sivang	so slick	00:54
jbos_bk	oky hey guys I need to find some sleep here too, I looking in here tomorrow and will have some ideas regarding a OBS Teamspace. - I think there are just 2 things for which this is for a) allow teams to provide more public a meego build with there own project in it, and b) to show others that 'they' are around.	00:55
lbt	he posted about the comparative investment	00:55
lbt	jbos_bk: yep ... objectives sound good	00:55
jbos_bk	everything else can be solved later on	00:55
lbt	grab some bullet point policy from my posts too	00:55
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Venemo	lbt: nice article	00:56
valianholt	is there any way how can I contribute to MeeGo project? testing the OS, but rather in QEMU than on my N900	00:56
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Venemo	valianholt: plenty, yes	00:56
valianholt	I am quite good in finding bugs and reporting them (previous experience)	00:56
valianholt	cool	00:56
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valianholt	but no programming knowledge, only deep unix knowledge	00:57
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sivang	lbt: he speaks wisely and I agree. this is a wakeup call	00:58
Venemo	valianholt: you can set up a MeeGo chroot and file bug reports, do testing, etc	00:58
Venemo	valianholt: check the wiki	00:58
valianholt	cool thx	00:58
sivang	valianholt: you can aos get a uSD and test using it, I am just preapring myself one	00:58
jbos_bk	hey, so have no time now. but are you aware that mxr.meego.com is down?	00:58
valianholt	uSD?	00:58
sivang	valianholt: micro sd card	00:59
sivang	valianholt: that you can add to your N900 computer	00:59
lbt	jbos_bk: yeah the guy hosting it had a tantrum :(	00:59
lbt	https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=11422	00:59
MeeGoBot	Bug 11422 is not accessible	00:59
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sivang	lbt: you make me use urban dict for that world	00:59
sivang	*word	00:59
valianholt	seems good, so I can simply put into my Maemo 5 chroot and test directly on N900	01:00
sivang	You are not authorized to access bug #11422.	01:00
lbt	balls	01:00
valianholt	with easy of ssh connection from my laptop	01:00
valianholt	ease *	01:00
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valianholt	because I thought MeeGo needs more UI testong as well	01:01
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valianholt	seems not	01:01
Venemo	valianholt: they say that the preferred environment is Fedora, but I guess it should work in any other distro	01:01
sivang	valianholt: micro sd card ??	01:01
sivang	hrm	01:02
sivang	something odd is happeing here	01:02
Venemo	sivang: ?	01:02
lbt	jbos_bk: can you see #11422 now?	01:02
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valianholt	sivang: you mean MicroSD has to be tested in MeeGo env?	01:03
sivang	valianholt: sorry no, I need to change my freenode password it seems :)	01:04
Venemo	valianholt: no, he means that you can install MeeGo on a MicroSD card and test it on your N900	01:04
sivang	Venemo: yes, what Venemo said	01:04
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valianholt	sivang: Venemo: ah this, I will follow wiki for sure	01:04
lbt	what does http://mxr.meego.com show for people ?	01:04
sivang	valianholt: it is very cool that way since you can "dual boot" without harm	01:05
sivang	valianholt: but make sure you read everything thoroughly	01:05
valianholt	sivang: ok thx	01:05
sivang	lbt: microsoft phone	01:05
lbt	sivang: ta	01:05
Venemo	lbt: what the fuck? it redirects to M$ site	01:05
sivang	lbt: which I was still amazed a few minutes ago	01:05
lbt	this is what happens when you get dipshit "community" people throwing a tantrum after you trust them to help you out	01:05
lbt	jebba in this case	01:06
valianholt	sivang: an off topic question, is the N900 still manufactured? my friend was interested because it is not anymore available in our local shops and it's not available on Nokia sites as well	01:06
Venemo	lbt: what happened?	01:06
Venemo	valianholt: noone knows	01:06
lbt	see https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=11422	01:06
MeeGoBot	Bug 11422 nor, Undecided, ---, michael.r.shaver, ASSI, allocate vm at OSU for mxr.meego.com	01:06
sivang	valianholt: I wish I knew :/	01:06
sivang	valianholt: have no idea	01:06
sivang	valianholt: but it does not matter at all to us	01:06
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lbt	apparently I didn't get my finger out quickly enough for him	01:06
Venemo	valianholt: anyway, it seems that N900s will be rare things soon, as there're many people wo like them	01:07
valianholt	:( I should possibly get another one - spare	01:07
CosmoHill	lbt: it says I should download IE8, DirectX and Office 2010, none of which work on mac	01:07
sivang	jebba, i recall the name from maemo	01:07
Venemo	valianholt: you should get one from ebay for a fairly low price though	01:07
sivang	although hasn't seen this nick in a while	01:07
sivang	valianholt: what Venemo said :)	01:07
sivang	valianholt: where are you from?	01:07
CosmoHill	lbt: is someone about to have their rights revolked?	01:07
valianholt	actually it has been from our local shop in Czech republic for like $420	01:08
valianholt	very cheap	01:08
lbt	CosmoHill: yep	01:08
valianholt	new, 2 years warranty	01:08
valianholt	unlike US 1 year	01:08
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CosmoHill	tbh I'm pretty indifferent to nokia and microsoft at the moment	01:09
sivang	http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkID=92799	01:09
sivang	what this this give you guys?	01:09
sivang	it brings me to go-mono	01:09
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CosmoHill	sivang: no, you must of clicked on the "install silverlight" thing in the corner	01:10
dotblank	people are scared of mono dev	01:10
sivang	I did	01:10
dotblank	because it could potentially turn	01:10
CosmoHill	sivang: ah, mine tried to start downloading	01:10
valianholt	hmm, why N900 chroot install instructions contain ext3 FS creation instead of btrfs?	01:11
valianholt	shouldn't be MeeGo tested on btrfs?	01:11
sivang	I'm off to bed, finally	01:11
sivang	cheers all	01:11
Dijit	btrfs is new. -- give it a while	01:11
Dijit	also btrfs is kinda, a server thing	01:11
Dijit	a lot of functions are lost on a mobile device	01:11
Dijit	performance is also still better on btrfs	01:12
javispedro	valianholt: not necessarily.	01:12
javispedro	valianholt: the n900 stock kernel won't be able to read it either way....	01:12
Dijit	still not better*	01:12
Dijit	on btrfs	01:12
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Dijit	sorry	01:12
valianholt	I see	01:12
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valianholt	thx for info & talk, good night	01:14
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Dijit	goodnight sir	01:14
Dijit	o/	01:14
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dotblank	If its an mtd I thought you would ubifs	01:16
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Dijit	dotblank: got any information on ubifs	01:18
Dijit	?	01:19
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dotblank	I mean what about it?	01:22
dotblank	its been in the linux kernel for awhile now	01:22
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Dijit	doing some research into filesystems before	01:23
Dijit	I've not come across it.	01:24
Dijit	I just mean broad information	01:24
dotblank	well the object of most flash based fs is trying to reduce reads/writes	01:24
Dijit	like, features, benchmarks. and how it treats disks	01:24
Dijit	but nilfs does that perfectly	01:24
dotblank	from what I can tell nilfs is ment to be used on regular disks	01:27
dotblank	ubifs is meant for large NAND flash	01:27
javispedro	you're not using ubifs on the n900 for anything other than the 256MiB rootfs.	01:29
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javispedro	ubi works over the mtd layer, while mmc/sd are block devices.	01:29
timeless	lbt: ping	01:30
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CosmoHill	it's to late at night for me to work out how to remap a fish eye image into a rectangular image	01:37
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hirabayashitaro	goodnight	02:07
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jonwil	anyone here have a compile setup that can compile ofono (and specifically test-sms.c)?	02:28
jonwil	I am looking to replace the test Cell Broadcast message in that file with one of my own and run it so that I can see what it decodes to	02:28
jonwil	but I dont have a working compile setup for ofono	02:28
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tulku	hi! I wanted to test meego touch, I could get the source and build it	02:47
Dijit	I think the source is public	02:47
tulku	however, I have an error running the demo app widgesgallery	02:47
Dijit	check gitorious	02:48
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tulku	Dijit, yes, I did clone the repo and compiled it :)	02:48
Dijit	ok	02:48
Dijit	what's the error?	02:48
tulku	I also installed the theme	02:48
Dijit	I think it's all working	02:48
tulku	and I got the app running, but all I see is a black window with the following error:	02:49
Dijit	hm	02:49
tulku	MRemoteThemeDaemon: Failed to connect to theme daemon (IPC)	02:49
tulku	MThemeDaemon: Could not activate the theme: "base"	02:49
Dijit	ok	02:49
tulku	and then tons of errors, I guess they all are because the theme is missing	02:49
Dijit	sounds like it	02:50
tulku	I actually had a problem installing the theme... meegotouch installed in /usr/local	02:50
tulku	but meegotouch-theme in /usr/share (no local)	02:50
tulku	y then manually moved the files...	02:50
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Dijit	hmm	02:53
Dijit	I'm not a developer, but	02:53
Dijit	can you try reinstalling?	02:53
Dijit	(the theme	02:53
Dijit	)*	02:53
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tulku	yes, I did	02:54
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tulku	Ok, I found that I have to ran the ./mthemedaemon	02:56
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tulku	but now I have a new error :)	02:56
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tulku	I works!!!	02:59
tulku	thanks :)	02:59
Dijit	not sure what I did	02:59
Dijit	but no problem xD	02:59
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tulku	the problem was that I have to manually run the theme server, and have the themes installed in usr/local, but the themes install in src	03:06
tulku	usr, not src sorry	03:06
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Elaine1	hi	03:29
Elaine1	i heard that abc_ has cancer and is terminal	03:29
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MichaelWang	what is up about meego today?	03:42
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Dijit	MichaelWang: nothing really	03:56
MichaelWang	Dijit: How about those companies who tend to get meego projects from Nokia? They will get nothing to do about meego right?	03:58
Dijit	hm	04:00
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Dijit	Meego will live on no matter what happens	04:00
Dijit	it has corporate backing other than nokia	04:00
Dijit	some companies are invested so much in meego's success.. that they will actively develop it, if nokia drops it,	04:00
lofty306	thought they alreaady did	04:03
lofty306	or did they just cancel the hardware at this point	04:04
Dijit	they've not stopped anything	04:05
Dijit	so far it's all media hype	04:05
lofty306	hmmm	04:06
Dijit	the developers are worried of course	04:07
Dijit	everyone is worried	04:07
lofty306	ok	04:07
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leinir	nods Everybody who didn't actually watch the briefings are worried and flailing all over the place, and those who saw the very large lump of R&D budget with the word "MeeGo" on it are more... shall we say sensible about the whole thing :)	04:08
leinir	Oh yeah, and of course there's all the "ohnoes, nokia am teh sux!11eleventyone" who have been all negative for ages anyway, and just bringing this one along for the ride :)	04:09
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leinir	If it wasn't so sad, it's be kind of fun to watch all the flailing :)	04:09
Dijit	haha	04:09
Dijit	honestly, meego will live on.	04:10
Dijit	it's not a nokia thing anymore	04:10
Dijit	they have almost no control over it now.	04:10
lofty306	its seperate i know that	04:10
Dijit	either they can make money on it..	04:10
leinir	It never was a Nokia thing - the press thinks so, because they're incapable of understanding the whole cooperative effort thing of open source projects like this, but... yeah :)	04:10
lofty306	or go with that other compaany	04:10
Dijit	or they can try and drop it, and lose all they stuck in.	04:10
leinir	The only thing Nokia are now not doing is actively productifying it :)	04:10
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leinir	but seriously, Nokia wouldn't be going into an insane chancey deal like this wp7 thing without an out... and meego is that out :)	04:11
* lofty306 grins		04:11
lofty306	or the CEO realy is nuts	04:11
Dijit	haha	04:12
Dijit	he knows business	04:12
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Dijit	that's what a CEO should know	04:12
Dijit	open source is for us nerds xD	04:12
lofty306	yep	04:12
leinir	nods Also a point - he couldn't do this sort of thing without support form the board :)	04:13
Dijit	they can't comprehend it, just like we can't really comprehend business strategy	04:13
leinir	As in /big/ support from them	04:13
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CosmoHill	cyas	04:13
lofty306	ive been scramblling to find other devices in the us to play with	04:14
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Dijit	I've not played with meego.	04:19
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lofty306	?	04:24
lofty306	i have a bit	04:24
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jonwil	is anyone here set up to compile ofono or can help me compile ofono?	09:15
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zma	maybe ask at #ofono?	09:16
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pupnik	jonwil: tried it on a laptop yet?	09:17
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* jonwil doesnt have a laptop :)		09:27
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khertan_	Morning	09:27
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Stskeeps	morn dneary_	09:35
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dneary_	Stskeeps, morn	09:42
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vgrade	according to bobduffy tweet, tablet ux will be 'Should be onsite for download shortly'	10:09
Stskeeps	yeah, but in what for.	10:09
Stskeeps	mm	10:09
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ukas	so when will wmc2011 open today?	10:15
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ukas	local time	10:15
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jbos	hello there	10:17
jukka	Intel MeeGo Tablet UX here: http://appdeveloper.intel.com/en-us/blog/2011/02/06/hands-meego-tablet-12-alpha-exopc	10:17
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baih	sdfsfd	10:18
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Stskeeps	jukka: i'm waiting to see if it gets contributed to meego 1.2 or not personally	10:18
jukka	same here	10:18
pupnik	who is going to wmc 2011?	10:18
jukka	it has to be contributed..	10:19
* dm8tbr wants to see that on his OMAP3 driven tablet :)		10:19
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jukka	I guess we are going to see phone UX as well from Intel	10:21
chouchoune	it would be nice if they show a phone UX with the same ideas like Tablet UX	10:21
chouchoune	for coherence between phones and tablets	10:22
Stskeeps	chouchoune: i'm more curious if it will build for ARM ;)	10:22
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chouchoune	yes, of course	10:23
dm8tbr	yes, a) do we get sources b) will it build for !intel_sse3	10:24
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jukka_	http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/13/intel-promises-teases-meego-smartphone-and-tablet-for-mwc/	10:24
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Stskeeps	dm8tbr: if anything, i think it'll be easy to find volunteers to make it build on arm	10:25
Stskeeps	:P	10:25
dm8tbr	nod	10:25
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chouchoune	http://appdeveloper.intel.com/en-us/blog/2011/02/09/intel-appup-developer-program-mobile-world-congress	10:26
chouchoune	MeeGo 1.2 Tablet UX (pre-alpha - for developers)	10:26
chouchoune	that sounds like releasing code	10:26
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Stskeeps	chouchoune: or a image build..	10:26
chouchoune	pre-alpha, for developpers ?	10:26
jukka_	I hope we get that HW to MeeGo Summit FI	10:26
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chouchoune	I understand it as "for UX developpers"	10:27
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Stskeeps	jukka_: supposedly it works on conference laptops	10:27
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slaine	Stskeeps: and that's probably where all the Netbook UX guys have been working for the last few months	10:32
Stskeeps	slaine: can't blame them..	10:32
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slaine	nope	10:33
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slaine	As Jaffa pointed out though, it's yet more big reveal stuff	10:34
slaine	hoped we'd passed that	10:34
slaine	I guess we never will	10:34
sivang	hi all	10:34
slaine	I imagine we'll get a Tablet UX Day 1 around the 1.2 release	10:34
slaine	sivang: hey ho	10:34
sivang	hey slaine , what's news today?	10:35
slaine	MWC, and Intel's new Tablet UX that none of us knew about	10:35
slaine	http://j.mp/gvCUDu	10:35
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RST38h	<yawn>	10:35
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* javispedro is watching the pre3 at mwc		10:35
RST38h	slaine: their previous tablet ui has been a mockup	10:35
RST38h	is this one real?	10:35
RST38h	and moorning to you, javispedro	10:36
javispedro	morning gentleman	10:36
javispedro	*men	10:36
khertan_	morning javiF	10:36
khertan_	morning javispedro	10:36
khertan_	oups sorru	10:36
khertan_	y	10:37
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javiF	morning	10:38
slaine	RST38h: looks "more real"	10:39
slaine	follow the link	10:39
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khertan_	doesn't look useable	10:40
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Hq`	is the tablet UX image for S10-3t already available in public?	10:41
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sivang	slaine: so they did want to fix the tablet UX :)	10:41
sivang	slaine: and they did- is it open source?	10:41
Frye	Looks interesting	10:41
* javispedro is watching pre3 at mwc		10:42
chouchoune	sivang: it's not written and no code is available yet	10:42
chouchoune	but supposedly they will release it as open source	10:42
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sivang	hmm	10:42
sivang	at least they promote qt as appropriate as it seems:	10:42
sivang	http://appdeveloper.intel.com/meego/	10:42
Termana	morning	10:43
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slaine	sivang: it doesn't look to be released yet	10:45
Stskeeps	around the corner though	10:46
slaine	I expect we'll get a Tablet UX Day1 like we did for the Handset UX. i.e. it'll be developed internally to a point, big press event and then we'll get to work on it	10:46
slaine	Probably targeted for 1.3 but Day 1 based on 1.2	10:47
slaine	educated guesses	10:47
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javispedro	so wheres this tablet ux?	10:49
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sivang	javispedro: lol	10:50
sivang	hey achipa :)	10:50
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achipa	hey sivang	10:50
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chouchoune	http://appdeveloper.intel.com/en-us/blog/2011/02/06/hands-meego-tablet-12-alpha-exopc	10:51
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sivang	http://appdeveloper.intel.com/en-us/article/amino-develops-smart-tv-product-three-times-faster-meego	10:52
sivang	NICE :)	10:52
Stskeeps	isn't that an old article?	10:52
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javispedro	so far all I've seen here live is the metab again	10:53
javispedro	*wetab	10:53
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Frye	Submitted by Bob Duffy on 13 Feb 2011 21:19:18	10:54
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Frye	Does not necessarily say that it is not old though.	10:54
Frye	Just the submit date	10:55
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javispedro	dunno	10:57
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chouchoune	javispedro: you're in Barcelona ?	10:59
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RST38h	javis: Will they rename it to Microsoft or to Elopsville now? =)	11:01
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javispedro	chochoune: yes	11:07
javispedro	rst38: hardly, even the nokia booth is still with qt,qt and qt	11:07
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javispedro	maybe next year	11:08
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pupnik	nice illustrative story though sivang	11:08
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arfoll	javispedroi, msqt.org	11:09
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* sivang checks mxr again		11:12
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sivang	javispedro: http://mxr.meego.com	11:13
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jbos	hi does someone have actually an ide how to get N900 with meego running, we have tons of issues with that	11:18
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Stskeeps	jbos: wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Install/MMC	11:19
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arvind_khadri	hi, I needed help with qxmpp. Is anyone aware of it?	11:21
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jbos	yes Stskeeps, i rever to that	11:25
jbos	but there are so many pitfalls	11:26
Stskeeps	ok, so	11:26
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Stskeeps	easiest way, honestly: get pr1.3 for maemo. install uboot-pr13	11:26
jbos	we have two n900	11:26
Stskeeps	write a SD card image with the meego n900 image (bunzip it)	11:26
Stskeeps	and put it in, reboot, keep back cover on	11:26
jbos	have dualboot, put the stuff on it, we can boot one	11:26
Stskeeps	ok	11:27
dm8tbr	and make sure the little magnet is not lost	11:27
jbos	but not the other (mmc root fs error)	11:27
dm8tbr	jbos: check the magnet	11:27
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dm8tbr	it's under the kickstand	11:27
jbos	which magnet?	11:27
jbos	:O	11:27
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jbos	ok	11:27
dm8tbr	compare both units to see if it is missing	11:27
jbos	so next thing is that we have trouble in getting usb network working	11:28
dm8tbr	if yes, replace with a piece of fridge magnet or so ;)	11:28
jbos	our kernel / host identify the meego n900 MAC Adress as "incomplete"	11:28
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jbos	suse 11.2	11:28
jbos	switching to 11.3 as	11:28
jbos	works, so we made this as bridge. but have trouble in keeping ssh alive when it comes to huge transfers	11:29
dm8tbr	dmesg output? (but then again I never used g_ether myself)	11:29
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jbos	(huge = ls on root	11:30
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jbos	so this pretty much sucks.. :) since we need to update to trunk	11:32
Stskeeps	jbos: just configure the usb net manuaally	11:32
Stskeeps	with ifconfig	11:32
jbos	are there ready made n900 trunk images for n900	11:32
Stskeeps	yes	11:32
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jbos	where can we find that	11:34
Jaffa	Morning, all	11:34
Stskeeps	jbos: repo.meego.com	11:34
Venemo_N900	morning guys	11:35
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Venemo_N900	what's up?	11:35
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jbos	http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/trunk/daily/ ? just contain the repo	11:35
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jbos	but no ready made images?	11:36
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Stskeeps	there's weekly images	11:36
dm8tbr	is this weeks ready yet? last week wasn't that great ;)	11:36
jbos	mhm so http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/trunk/1.1.90.2.20110208.4/ ?	11:38
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jbos	is it this?	11:38
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dm8tbr	yeah that's last week's	11:39
jbos	okay thanks, is there a list / info when this gets updated?	11:40
dm8tbr	there's a mailing list that get's this info	11:40
dm8tbr	I'd guess we'll get the next image tomorrow judging by the timestamps.	11:41
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dm8tbr	you can always build an image yourself using the kickstart file mic2 and the daily repo	11:41
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* javispedro hears Nokia still sing the Qt tune at mwc		12:21
javispedro	the "three year ecosystem" talk.... has just lost a lot of meaning...	12:22
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Venemo_N900	javispedro: what is 3 year ecosystem?	12:24
chouchoune	Intel's Tablet UX in a video : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5I9yBigBW6c	12:24
CosmoHill	360 days after announcing MeeGo they announced their partnership with MS	12:24
CosmoHill	wait a minute, 360 days, xbox 360, microsoft, bastards	12:25
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Venemo_N900	chouchoune: do we know if it's oss yet?	12:26
CosmoHill	kkkkkkkkkk: either your very very racist or you have a sticky key	12:26
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CosmoHill	you're*	12:26
vgrade-nexus	from my contact at MWC, They are having problems uploading it. Have been on the case this morning. Red tape. #MeeGo #tablet	12:26
chouchoune	Venemo_N900: no, but Intel presents it as Meego tablet UX 1.2	12:27
av500	chouchoune: omg, one can even fast forward video	12:27
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Venemo_N900	chouchoune: so it's closed? great!	12:27
Stskeeps	av500: yeah, that's new ;p	12:28
chouchoune	closed ? I think they will release the code	12:28
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chouchoune	but let's wait until that	12:28
Venemo_N900	chouchoune: i hope so	12:28
chouchoune	they call it pre-alpha, developper release, for me that means that they release it for UX developpers	12:29
chouchoune	but let's see	12:29
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Venemo_N900	:)	12:29
jbos	yea that would be awesome	12:30
jbos	:D	12:30
arfoll	Venemo_N900, so far they havent done a single closed UX	12:30
arfoll	and they've said it works on the lenovo S10-3t :-)	12:30
chouchoune	and I don't see the point for Intel to release a closed UX	12:30
chouchoune	for Nokia it would have been relevant	12:30
chouchoune	but Intel wants manufactures to pick it up	12:31
chouchoune	so it has to be open	12:31
Venemo_N900	arfoll: yet noone's seen the code for tablet ux	12:31
arfoll	Venemo_N900, want to bet a beer on it?	12:31
Stskeeps	a sdk installs, hmm..	12:31
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Venemo_N900	arfoll: no. I also hope they'll open it soon	12:32
chouchoune	I'm in for the bet, on the open source side ;)	12:32
pupnik	"I have offended God and mankind because my work didn't reach the quality it should have " - - Last words Leonardo da Vinci	12:32
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arfoll	i'm sure on #microsoft someone would bet me a beer ;-)	12:32
javispedro	so wheres that UI I want to touch it!	12:32
chouchoune	javispedro: Meego booth I guess	12:33
javispedro	theres 3 intel booths	12:33
chouchoune	Meego's Intel booth ;)	12:33
chouchoune	or maybe ExoPC as it's on an ExoPC ;)	12:33
ukas	so has mwc opened? i'm not finding anything about it on technology blogs :(	12:34
chouchoune	ukas: yes, this morning	12:34
jbos	can you buy this exopc already`	12:34
chouchoune	No idea	12:34
chouchoune	it works on WeTab	12:34
chouchoune	and you can buy Wetab	12:34
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javispedro	nokia says they sell 14 phones per second =)	12:35
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maybeArgh	and how many are returner per second?	12:37
kyb3R	:)	12:37
Stskeeps	http://appdeveloper.intel.com/en-us/meego-iso-esla <- oh come on	12:38
ukas	so no news about meego-harmattan?	12:38
CosmoHill	what the	12:39
arfoll	Stskeeps, and an iso?	12:39
Stskeeps	arfoll: shouldn't matter too much	12:39
Jaffa	Stskeeps: More big reveal crap.	12:40
Jaffa	Stskeeps: MeeGo's only choice is "ecosystem in a box" and an openness USP.	12:40
Stskeeps	Jaffa: then again, the big reveal comes at a handy time	12:40
vgrade-nexus	and I'm at work too :(. Joggler later	12:41
av500	Stskeeps: big reveal?	12:41
av500	nokia or intel?	12:41
Jaffa	Stskeeps: Perhaps, but also shows that Intel is becoming MeeGo's Google. Here's a code dump for the next release/future.	12:41
* thiago has just had a flawless 40-minute international call on his nokia meego prototype		12:41
Jaffa	thiago: The cancelled one or the one which actually should get released? ;-)	12:41
rzr	http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/13/fujitsu-unveils-worlds-first-meego-netbook-world-barely-notice/	12:41
av500	thiago: while playing angry birds?	12:41
thiago	av500: not playing angry birds, but skype chats and email syncing in the background	12:42
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lbt	Jaffa: just a maemo thought.... do we bother putting Harmattan on the OBS or just redo the autobuilder	12:51
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sivang	evaluation??	12:51
Jaffa	lbt: I suspect Nokia'll be reducing maemo.org costs further. Having a more sane and reproducible infrastructure would be good.	12:51
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sivang	Jaffa: do we have harmattan? isn't it a closed nokia product?	12:52
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sivang	Stskeeps: has it become a shareware?	12:53
sivang	:)	12:53
lbt	I know Tero and Niels are looking into it - just wanted to think about it from a maemo PoV too.	12:53
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CosmoHill	hey lardman	12:53
lardman	hi CosmoHill	12:54
lbt	anyhow... not a very coherent thought.... maybe l8r	12:54
gour	is there anyone left believing there will be meego smart-phone available or let's better go to the webos shop?	12:54
lbt	gour: #meego-bar for chitchat	12:54
lardman	well apparently there will be something this year...	12:54
sivang	thiago: maemo already does this :) including angry birds	12:54
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Stskeeps	ooh. qml based tablet ui	12:54
lardman	lbt: do they serve drinks before 11?	12:54
lbt	lardman: yep ... follow the sun licensing hours	12:55
lardman	:)	12:55
Jaffa	lbt: Because #meego is so busy with functional chat? ;-p	12:55
lbt	:P	12:55
lbt	'cos I can't be arsed with it :)	12:55
maybeArgh	so i just download that iso and fire up virtualbox...?	12:56
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lbt	mr neary!	12:56
gour	lbt: i'v tried it, but do not consider it's topic for chitchat...maybe that's problem with meego	12:56
lbt	dneary_: how do I get 'delete page' on the wiki	12:56
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dneary_	lbt, You ask me or anyone else who's a sysop, and if you've done good wiki work we add the permissions	12:57
* lbt begs and pleads		12:57
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niala1	fais chier des travaux pas d eau chaude	12:57
niala1	oh sorry wrong win	12:57
timoph	lbt: http://wiki.meego.com/Category:Die_die_die	12:57
lbt	timoph: hmph ... clearly someone needs to kill some pages	12:58
timoph	yep :)	12:58
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CosmoHill	lbt: so we have a massive hit list but no assassins?	13:00
lbt	sounds like	13:00
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CosmoHill	why do people add them to the list instead of deleting them themselfs?	13:00
lbt	delete is a special right	13:01
timoph	regular user can't delete pages	13:01
CosmoHill	oh I see	13:01
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CosmoHill	I'm assuming you two can't?	13:02
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av500	just add the pages to german wikipedia, they will be deleted in no time....	13:04
* timeless pokes lbt		13:04
CosmoHill	lbt: if you'd like I could hack my way through some when I have spare time	13:05
MurmurOR	ZTE (Chinese phone mfr) has expressed some early interest in Meego, but at this point purely very early R&D project.	13:05
Stskeeps	MurmurOR: oh, didn't know that	13:05
MurmurOR	Right from MWC news	13:05
jonwil	All the ZTE phones I have seen have been junk	13:06
CosmoHill	heh	13:06
CosmoHill	"warning, copying folder "VISTA_SP1" may harm your computer, do you wish to continue?"	13:06
* timeless pokes lbt		13:07
sivang	MurmurOR: very nice	13:07
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MurmurOR	At this time thought ZTE is 99,9% Android house, so it might not materialize anything.	13:08
lbt	timeless: hey	13:09
lbt	so jebba is a prick	13:09
timeless	i don't really care	13:09
timeless	he made an investment and a contribution	13:10
timeless	you guys made a promise months ago, @dublin	13:10
lbt	then he had a tantrum because I didn't spend MY volunteer time on HIS issues	13:10
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lbt	sorry for not having unlimited bandwidth	13:10
lbt	now please fix that redirect	13:11
lbt	he also gave us a 'deadline' of 8 weeks and had another tantrum after 1 week	13:11
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timeless	i have no control over it	13:11
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lbt	well. This kind of shit shows why people have issues trusting 'community' members ....	13:12
lbt	clever	13:12
lbt	(sorry for swearing)	13:12
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CosmoHill	timeless: just let him vent	13:12
Stskeeps	lbt: looks like a reason to remove dns record/mod it	13:12
lbt	kinda done last night	13:13
lbt	but we are still working through basic issues like managing DNS effectively	13:13
jrayhawk	Is new hosting still needed, or is that already settled?	13:13
lbt	let alone taking on more services	13:13
timeless	jrayhawk: are you volunteering?	13:14
jrayhawk	Probably. It might take me a bit to get more than 100 gigabytes ready, but I can probably get that much.	13:15
lbt	jrayhawk: won't happen	13:15
lbt	how can we take you up on it when this is what happened last time ?	13:15
sivang	for crying out loud, a 500gb server in webtopia costs 25EU per month	13:15
sivang	with almost unlimited bandwidth	13:16
mikhas	sivang, that unlimited bandwidth will be throttled I am sure	13:16
jrayhawk	Gosh, why does anybody bother trying to do anything when risk of failure exists?	13:16
timeless	jrayhawk: sadly 100gb is a bare minimum, that's what is used currently and it's fully used, preventing me from staging updates or anything	13:16
sivang	mikhas: better than nothing	13:16
mikhas	once you reach a magic limit	13:16
lbt	sivang: sure... and without control I'm just glad a .meego.com site doesn't redirect to goatse	13:17
sivang	lbt: you control it if you pay it :)	13:17
sivang	anyway, /me fetches the link	13:17
lbt	although it might be preferable to microsoft	13:17
jrayhawk	Hmm. I guess I could reshape that array and get another 500 gigs.	13:17
lbt	sivang: you know this and I know this ... but we have corporate overlord/sponsors who are not capable	13:18
sivang	lbt: I see. /me stops fetching the link	13:18
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* timeless grumbles		13:20
timeless	who scheduled a meeting for lunch?	13:20
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lbt	timeless: so mxr is a fairly huge resource hog with limited community demand. I would like to make it happen but it's low on the list.	13:21
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timeless	lbt: so, can you outline what's needed/missing?	13:22
timeless	i was under the impression @dublin that you had physical storage available	13:22
timeless	and some amount of bandwidth	13:22
timeless	cpu load and general runtime bandwidth are a function of general use, more users, more load	13:24
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timeless	also, do you have an actual list in priority order of tasks and what's blocking them?	13:26
lbt	timeless: yes, we have physical storage.... do we have a backup strategy, capacity planning and the rest of it?	13:26
lbt	no.	13:26
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lbt	we're meeting in a week for a week to plan this out.... migrating all the main web services to OSU was our priority	13:27
timeless	where are they now?	13:27
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lbt	of course things are now even less clear	13:27
lbt	they were at an ISP.. they're now mainly at OSU	13:27
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timeless	i'd personally be willing to delay the backup strategy for mxr. since it's generally easier to build from scratch	13:28
dneary_	lbt, Sorry - I changed windows straight after, didn't see a ping, didn't realise you'd replied	13:28
dneary_	lbt: Name prefixes are really useful :)	13:28
lbt	dneary_: :)	13:28
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dneary_	lbt, No time right now, let me look at your contributions after lunch. What pages do you want to delete?	13:28
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CosmoHill	dneary_: a LOT of them	13:30
CosmoHill	dneary_: http://wiki.meego.com/Category:Die_die_die	13:30
dneary_	CosmoHill, Yeah - the Die die die category is a good way to mark them	13:31
dneary_	I should sick the Sysops on that list	13:31
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* lbt looks at dneary_ ... "let me look at your contributions after lunch" ..... OK....		13:31
timeless	dneary_: you could promote a couple of people to have delete privs ;-)	13:32
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dneary_	lbt, Specifically wiki stuff	13:32
CosmoHill	>.>	13:33
dneary_	lbt, I am not questioning your contribution outside the wiki... but sysop has some power to damage stuff, so it's normal to ensure that the person is active in the wiki & understands how mediawiki works, etc	13:33
lbt	uh huh	13:33
dneary_	Just want to avoid any accidental irreversible bad stuff	13:34
dneary_	lbt, Is that an ironic uh huh?	13:34
* lbt notes he has root to the server the wiki runs on		13:34
lbt	so yeah	13:34
thiago	CosmoHill: do we have Wesley Crusher in that category?	13:34
lbt	(and I know)	13:34
CosmoHill	no idea	13:34
dneary_	lbt, http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo.org_team#Wiki_sysops is the list of sysops, by the way	13:35
lbt	maemo ?	13:35
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dneary_	lbt, And don't take it badly, please... if you have root you could give yourself sysop privileges via the mysql client ;)	13:35
dneary_	lbt, Isn't that what we're talking abouot?	13:35
lbt	I'd never do that	13:35
lbt	no meego	13:36
* lbt checks channel		13:36
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dneary_	Ah	13:36
lbt	:)	13:36
dneary_	Since giving sysop to people was something I talked about in meego this week	13:36
dneary_	s/meego/maemo	13:36
timeless	lbt: s/no meego/no, meego/	13:36
CosmoHill	you people are confusing me	13:36
dneary_	So now I need to figure out what the meego process is (esp. since I came late to the MeeGo sysop party - I may have to clear it with other sysops)	13:37
dneary_	lbt, I would appreciate you running a mysql query for me on the meego wiki DB	13:37
lbt	OK ... I want to tidy up http://wiki.meego.com/Release_Infrastructure	13:37
dneary_	lbt, Basically, I'd like to get a list of MeeGo sysops	13:39
CosmoHill	lbt: is there a similar page for the meego wiki?	13:39
lbt	ok	13:40
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dneary_	mysql -h<host> -u<user> -p<passwd> mediawiki -e "select u.user_name,u.user_real_name from mw_user as u,mw_user_groups as g where u.user_id=g.ug_user and g.ug_group='sysop';"	13:40
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CosmoHill	my advise would be to use -p and not -p <passwd>	13:41
CosmoHill	that way it will ask you for your password instead of storying it in .bash_history	13:41
dneary_	I'm assuming that the wiki database is called the default "mediawiki" and that the table prefixes are the defauls "mw_"	13:41
dneary_	CosmoHill, Correct - I was short-handing	13:41
timeless	CosmoHill: and instead of showing it in `ps` :)	13:42
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dneary_	lbt, There is no way to get that list through the wiki, as far as I know	13:43
CosmoHill	timeless: oh my	13:43
lbt	ok	13:43
timeless	CosmoHill: on most platforms the ps table is public	13:43
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timeless	(exceptions include solaris zones)	13:43
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dneary_	lbt, I'll use you as a test case & set up a new lightweight process - document who the sysops are, and how you become one.	13:45
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dneary_	lbt, Sorry if this is inconvenient for you right now, but it'll be better for everyone longer term	13:46
lbt	no probs ... sensible approach	13:46
lbt	it's what I'm doing with the OBS	13:46
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DocScrutinizer	mxr.meego.com - CONGRATS :-(	13:54
lofty306	haha	13:54
Stskeeps	DocScrutinizer: are you trolling?	13:54
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CosmoHill	I see the DNS hasn't been fixed yet	13:54
DocScrutinizer	nah, I'm not even here	13:54
Stskeeps	DocScrutinizer: i think jebba just set back any trust in volunteers giving server space a year :)	13:54
CosmoHill	or at least not filtered down to openDNS	13:54
CosmoHill	jebba has cocked it up for the rest of us	13:55
jrayhawk	:(	13:55
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javispedro	saw the tablet ux!	14:05
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javispedro	quite nice	14:05
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CosmoHill	would there be some kind of background check, such as talking to member's of other communities where the candidate has worked / contributed	14:05
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javispedro	no commentsw about release dates or oss though	14:05
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pekuja	is MeeGo usable on an N900 yet? I mean, is it usable as a phone?	14:06
Stskeeps	javispedro: i'd say rather soon since license headers are in place	14:06
Stskeeps	pekuja: yes, you can make phonecalls	14:06
pekuja	cool	14:06
DocScrutinizer	for 4h	14:06
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pekuja	yeah? horrible battery life?	14:06
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pekuja	it installs into a dual-boot setup, right?	14:07
Stskeeps	pekuja: you can set it up like that	14:07
CosmoHill	pekuja: yes, just turn it off and remove the MeeGo SD card	14:07
Stskeeps	pekuja: needless to say, it's not a end-user product	14:07
DocScrutinizer	CosmoHill: uBoot menu doesn't work?	14:08
CosmoHill	no idea, the video I saw he just removed the card and booted meamo	14:09
lcuk	CosmoHill, you could just ask his mum to write a letter.	14:09
pekuja	Stskeeps: sure. some might argue that the default OS isn't either ;-D	14:09
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pekuja	Stskeeps: j/k, but mostly I just mean that from the looks of it, MeeGo looks a lot more user friendly than Maemo	14:16
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Jaffa	pekuja: Last time I used MeeGo Handset it was a lot less user friendly than Maemo 5, and that's excluding things like UI lag and random scroll events	14:18
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pekuja	right, ok	14:19
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pekuja	I'm mostly just judging it by screenshots, so I may be completely off base :-/	14:20
pekuja	that's why I need to get it installed, of course :-P	14:20
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Dijit	good afternoon fellas	14:42
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bergie	downloaded the tablet UX preview, seems interesting	14:43
bergie	though I have to clear up my IdeaPad before trying it out	14:43
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pexi	ZTE investing r&d for meego	14:47
Dijit	ZTE?	14:48
Dijit	(imagine I know nothing)	14:48
Dijit	... in fact, don't imagine.	14:48
pexi	big chinese smartphone company	14:49
pexi	(well it has other products also)	14:49
Jartza	yeah	14:49
Jartza	decent phones with cheap pricetag	14:49
pexi	penetrated finnish smartphone sector last summer with cheap androids	14:49
bergie	I was to Verkkokauppa today, ZTE seems to be selling crazy cheap Android stuff	14:49
Jartza	they do	14:50
bergie	wouldn't be too bad to have very cheap MeeGo phones out :-)	14:50
pexi	http://www.kauppalehti.fi/5/i/talous/uutiset/etusivu/uutinen.jsp?oid=20110260471	14:50
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pexi	(in finnish, sorry)	14:50
Jartza	zte blade is around 200e	14:50
Jartza	and the android tablet was around 350e	14:51
bergie	hmm, Engadget doesn't seem convinced of the tablet UX yet: http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/14/intel-shows-off-more-of-its-meego-tablet-ui-still-needs-lots-of/	14:51
Stskeeps	bergie: "it's not ipad"?	14:52
bergie	they say it isn't "even Android" ;-)	14:53
bergie	but well, I have the ISO, have to try it on the IdeaPad later this week	14:53
bergie	maybe for the MeeGo meetup on Wednesday	14:53
smoinen	bergie: we'll try to prepare one ideapad for tomorrow's Tampere meetup	14:54
smoinen	with tablet ux	14:54
bergie	cool	14:54
bergie	let me know how it goes	14:54
smoinen	we will	14:54
bergie	the problem is, since the hard drive on my laptop died, I'm using the ideapad for work	14:55
bergie	so I need to go and buy a new machine first ;-)	14:55
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smoinen	bergie: oh, ok :)	14:55
bergie	smoinen: can you post to this thread once you've tried it? http://www.qaiku.com/go/asdx/	14:56
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smoinen	bergie: i'll try to remmber. kyb3R is working on installing it atm.	14:57
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* ahiemstra is running intel's tablet ux on an ideapad		15:01
ahiemstra	and i must say, I'm quite impressed	15:01
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alterego	ahiemstra: cool, wish I had one :)	15:03
bergie	ahiemstra: could you post something to a blog or the forum?	15:03
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ahiemstra	bergie: probably	15:04
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ahiemstra	what did you have in mind?	15:04
lcuk	alterego, if I had means to send you one I would.	15:04
alterego	:)	15:04
lcuk	:)	15:05
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alterego	lcuk: I hear it's got QML candy bars! :D	15:05
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bergie	ahiemstra: would be nice to hear some real-world experiences and see more screenshots. Especially how it compares to the (now dead?) netbook UX	15:06
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bergie	also, is it smart enough to use on-screen keyboard when the ideapad is in tablet mode, but hardware keyboard when in laptop mode	15:06
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lcuk	bah, yesterdays handset ux image is not booting	15:08
alterego	bergie: now dead?	15:08
ahiemstra	it is really a tablet ux, so it will always show the virtual keyboard	15:08
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Stskeeps	ahiemstra: it is using input method from meego handset, so that's flaggable	15:08
ahiemstra	also, it seems to be lacking drivers for the standard intel gfx chip	15:09
lcuk	ahiemstra, even a real tablet UX should try to account for hw keyboards!	15:09
bergie	ahiemstra: there are tablets with hardware keyboards, check out for example http://liliputing.com/2011/01/hands-on-with-the-asus-eee-pad-slider.html	15:09
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ahiemstra	bergie: true	15:10
lcuk	the n810/n900 also	15:10
ahiemstra	it is meant to be a "developer preview" so I'm guessing its one of these things they haven't touched yet	15:10
* lbt notes that he's even heard of <gasp> USB keyboards! </gasp>		15:10
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bergie	lbt: they're also selling lots of bluetooth keyboard accessories for iPad	15:11
lcuk	lbt, whats a "USB" and where is the ps/2 slot on my tablet?	15:11
lbt	yep .. another case	15:11
lbt	lcuk: heh ... I have that problem for real on desktop motherboards...	15:12
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lcuk	i have a few converters here	15:12
Dijit	heh	15:12
lcuk	i once had to daisy chain from the big DIN connector to PS/2 to inline remote control to keyboard	15:12
Dijit	converters rarely work anymore	15:13
Dijit	all keyboards used to be compliant.. >_<	15:13
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lbt	woo ... fixed my stupid kerberos problem	15:13
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lcuk	Dijit, it was not that they were compliant, it was that they were too heavy to carry back to the shop	15:13
maelcum	you can get "real" converters that don't require hardware support from the keyboard.	15:13
Dijit	hahaha	15:14
Dijit	true	15:14
Dijit	but USB keyboards have to be polled by the CPU	15:14
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Dijit	so, they actually degrade performance (although I think it's so minimal you never notice)	15:14
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maelcum	i believe they don't. where do you have that information from?	15:14
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lindi-	at least they are polled over the USB bus	15:15
Dijit	studying USB devices at university	15:15
lcuk	has anyone been testing handset on pinetrail images?	15:15
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maelcum	usb hardware surely has an interrupt to tell the cpu that something happened. only then does the cpu have to "poll" the keyboard.	15:15
lcuk	I just booted one and got no further than X11	15:15
* lcuk goes filing bugs		15:15
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maelcum	i can imagine the usb protocol working by polling. usb heavily relies on the host.	15:15
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schoenemann	hi, I'm trying to build a project using the MeeGo SDK with meego-core-armv7l-trunk target	15:16
lindi-	maelcum: yep that's for sure	15:16
schoenemann	is it possible to install additional libraries inside this target?	15:16
schoenemann	I need TelepathyQt4 to build my project	15:16
lindi-	Dijit: any idea how to find the function in linux that does the polling?	15:16
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Dijit	not a clue	15:18
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Dijit	it'll be bundled in the HID stuff	15:19
lcuk	0 bugs filed against images from 20110211	15:19
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lcuk	if the tablet ux thing is an ISO, how do you put it onto your ideapad? Don't you need a CD/DVD for that?	15:23
Stskeeps	lcuk: possibly you can just boot it	15:23
RST38h	You do not put it onto your Ideapad	15:23
RST38h	You put it onto a tablet.	15:23
Stskeeps	RST38h: actually they list the lenovo as a target	15:24
lcuk	do they mostly have DVD drives now?	15:24
RST38h	Stskeeps: =)	15:24
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RST38h	I would then try burning it to a CDROM and seeing what is there	15:25
lcuk	I looked carefully all around my ideapad and I did not see a DVD or CD rom slot anywhere!	15:25
av500	make sure burning to CD does not violate the intel EULA	15:25
lcuk	should I file a bug?	15:25
maybeArgh	can't boot it in virtualbox, complains about something something intel 915 blah is needed	15:25
pohly	lcuk: the .iso should be the typical hybrid MeeGo image - copy onto an USB stick and boot from that.	15:26
RST38h	You should start by finding a Windows PC with a CDROM and burning that .iso to a disk	15:26
av500	"Windows PC" :)	15:27
lcuk	RST38h, how then do you boot from it? do you wave the CD infront of the camera or something?	15:27
Dijit	or, using dd..	15:27
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Dijit	dd if=<path to iso> of=<path to any usb stick big enough> bs=512k	15:27
Dijit	(as root ofc)	15:28
RST38h	lcuk: I do not know, depends on what is on that CD	15:28
Dijit	I've not used a CD for any installation for a long time.	15:28
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lcuk	pohly, indeed, however I thought ISO was specifically a disk image from optical media, if it is a standard one that can be used as Dijit said that is cool	15:29
ahiemstra	lcuk: its an iso, but you can just put it on a usb stick to boot from	15:30
Dijit	ISO is binary disk format	15:30
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Manuel_	Hi-looking those like me who can take contact with one of the fastest Meego?	15:31
pohly	I wouldn't do the dd as root, though. Much to risky to wipe out your hard disk by accident. Modern Linux desktops make USB sticks read/writable to the current user, so dd as normal user instead.	15:31
Dijit	not at block level	15:31
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Manuel_	ß	15:31
Dijit	they mount the filesystem as the user.	15:31
Dijit	well.. they make it available to the user	15:32
Dijit	but to gain block level access you need to be root.	15:32
schoenemann	can someone help me to install additional libraries (e.g. TelepathyQt4) inside a MeeGo target?	15:32
ahiemstra	pohly: you can't do dd as non-root	15:32
Dijit	just make sure you know which disk is the target	15:32
Manuel_	!!!!!! Hi-looking those like me who can take contact with one of the fastest Meego?	15:32
Dijit	Manuel_: please restructure your sentence	15:32
Dijit	schoenemann: I'd love to help, but I don't know how to do that either	15:33
lcuk	for Netbook/Handset UXes for installation of images to USB keys	15:33
Dijit	have you asked almighty google?	15:33
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lcuk	there is a great piece of software called "image-writer"	15:33
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lcuk	it checks specfic usb mounts and confirms and proceeds nicely	15:34
lofty306	for in windows to write the iso to a usb stick	15:34
lcuk	its available here: http://meego.com/devices/netbook/installing-meego-your-netbook	15:34
pohly	ahiemstra: not true, I have done it. The GNOME desktop on Debian makes /dev/sdb writable for the current user.	15:34
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ahiemstra	pohly: on block level? I would consider that a security error tbh	15:35
lofty306	http://meego.com/devices/netbook/installing-meego-netbook/windows-instructions	15:35
Dijit	as would I. 0_o	15:35
schoenemann	Dijit: yes. already asked google but I couldn't find an answer	15:35
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pohly	ahiemstra: why? I find it a useful default. Of course, real disks are not writable.	15:36
Dijit	"real" disks are USB disks too.	15:36
ahiemstra	yeah	15:36
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Dijit	pohly: do you have gtk-recordmydesktop?	15:37
pohly	External USB disks are also writable. SATA disks are not - that's what I mean with "real". I don't know how configurable this behavior is, but as I said, I find it useful.	15:38
Dijit	because if this is true.. then I'm going to be having words with meego's debian loving developers	15:38
pohly	Dijit: no.	15:38
pohly	Dijit: what does that have to do with MeeGo?	15:38
Dijit	hm	15:38
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Dijit	sec, I'm going to see if someone can do this;	15:40
Dijit	brb	15:40
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Dijit	pohly: you are mistaken	15:42
Dijit	debian doesn't give block access to users	15:42
pohly	Dijit: well, my installation does.	15:43
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pohly	I don't think I customized that myself.	15:44
pupnik	pohly: perhaps you mean /dev/sdb1, /dev/sdb2 etc	15:44
pupnik	or rather filesystems mounted on them	15:44
pupnik	a desktop doesn't do anything with a block device	15:44
Dijit	pupnik: I just checked on aapi's debian machine	15:44
Dijit	no access to /dev/sdc or /dev/sdc1	15:44
pupnik	yes, i think it was just a misunderstanding	15:45
Dijit	only mounted filesystems- and only where they're mounted	15:45
Dijit	ah	15:45
Dijit	ok	15:45
pohly	pubnik: do you really think I don't know the difference between /dev/sdb and /dev/sdb1? ;-} I've written enough of these .iso images to last me life time, and I'm not doing it as root here.	15:45
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pupnik	brw-rw---- 1 root floppy 8, 16 Feb 13 20:24 /dev/sdb	15:46
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jbos	hey guys, i try to use cmake on qtcreator	15:47
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jbos	how do i need to setup qtcreator to use cmake with my arm target and such?	15:47
pohly	pubnik: rw for group "floppy" does the trick. For fixed disks it is "disk". Not sure whether the default user is part of floppy, though. This might be a part that I changed for my account.	15:47
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pupnik	pohly: it appears users get added to group floppy by default, but not group 'disk'	15:49
pupnik	this seems to be a reasonable default to me	15:50
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Dijit	heh, I love this laptop, but it hates linux	16:05
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Dijit	no fingerprint reader support, no display driver.	16:06
robthoms	QT work insofar as to bring Meego to market, but no porting efforts..	16:06
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lcuk	robthoms, ?	16:08
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robthoms	lcuk, in a confcall.. mostly internal stuff, but that (unsurprising) snippet.	16:09
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Mece	\o	16:17
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Mece	I'm seeing pictures og an intel tablet and phone with meego headlines. what's been shown? (been away all day)	16:20
Stskeeps	tablet ux	16:20
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* RST38h Wonders whether that .sio image will boot on a core i7 laptop, from USB		16:24
Mece	Stskeeps, checking a youtube widget atm. is the ux closed source?	16:24
Stskeeps	Mece: doesn't look like it but it's not in meego trunk yet	16:25
Stskeeps	Mece: license files on qml says apache license	16:25
Mece	it's a qml ui?	16:26
Stskeeps	yeah	16:26
Mece	Stskeeps, the panel view looks alot like my Tweed Suit app :)	16:27
RST38h	Stskeeps: Engadget clowns already hate it :)	16:27
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Mece	is it a wetab they show it on?	16:28
Stskeeps	RST38h: engadget hates a lot of things	16:28
Dijit	\quit bye	16:28
Dijit	guh	16:28
javispedro	IMHO it is way different from the flashy colorful demos	16:28
Dijit	why does that never work on freenode.	16:28
javispedro	this one was clearly real though.	16:28
Mece	RST38h, it didn't look super smooth on the video, so I immediately figured ipadites would hate it.	16:28
Dijit	\quit ...	16:29
RST38h	Well, it is a pre-alpha	16:29
javispedro	Mece: it was very snappy actually, but not flashy	16:29
Mece	digit, try forwardslash? eh?	16:29
RST38h	And QML is not exactly the most efficient framework	16:29
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Mece	javispedro, it looks very nice imo.	16:29
javispedro	I couldn't but feel it was like a unthemed gtk app =)	16:29
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Mece	javispedro, some bits looked very unfinished.	16:30
javispedro	I also liked that it seems like the most useful one	16:30
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Venemo_N900	hey	16:30
javispedro	from all the UIs I've seen on mwc...	16:30
Dijit	ty	16:30
Venemo_N900	any news?	16:30
javispedro	the Android guys were also crazy showing the 3.0 tablet ui	16:30
ahiemstra	I've just tried it on an ideapad. and imo it is the most useful one	16:31
Mece	javispedro, what do you mean?	16:31
ahiemstra	there's certainly some unpolished bits	16:31
Venemo_N900	ahiemstra: so it's open now?	16:31
javispedro	Mece: that it was mostly content, your content on the interface.	16:31
Mece	ahiemstra, can anyone dl it? from where?	16:31
ahiemstra	Venemo_N900: no, but there's an iso available	16:31
javispedro	not crap, like a big, space wasting giant flashy clock like most of the other UIs	16:31
Venemo_N900	ahiemstra: mhm	16:32
ahiemstra	Mece: http://appdeveloper.intel.com/en-us/meego-iso-esla	16:32
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pupnik	will that run under qemu?	16:32
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Mece	gaah, and it's qml? WANT!	16:33
Mece	I mean.. you can just edit anything on that thing strght away..	16:33
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Dijit	very light too, I hear	16:34
ahiemstra	pohly: no clue, but unlikely	16:34
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Mece	so, why not use that on the phone? we could strip down some of the heaviest stuff	16:35
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Mece	by we I mean I or "one"	16:35
ahf	is that something intel released today?	16:36
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* Mece has no idea, he has been on work business in estonia today		16:36
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ahiemstra	ahf: sort of	16:36
ahf	ahiemstra: cool	16:36
ahiemstra	its a "developer preview"	16:36
ahf	my motivation today at work isn't uber high	16:37
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* ahf will give it a spin		16:37
ahf	when i get home though. don't have any fancy pancy virtualization stuff here	16:37
Mece	ahiemstra, the best kind of preview!	16:37
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Creteil	hi all	16:38
Mece	Creteil, o/	16:38
ahiemstra	ahf: I don't know if it works on a vm	16:39
Creteil	someone know when I go to http://meego.com I was asked many time for login/passwd ?	16:39
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ahiemstra	it seems to be tied to specific cpu's	16:39
Creteil	I'm using iceape ...	16:39
alterego	What invokes the playing of the ring tone in handset?	16:40
Creteil	s/someone know when I go/someone know WHY when I go/	16:40
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Mece	ahiemstra, well, understandable. can you take bits of something with apache license?	16:45
ahiemstra	I don't see why not?	16:45
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chouchoune	oh, too bad they released it on Valentines day : my girlfrient will never let me play with it tonight :(	16:48
Mece	ahiemstra, Ok.	16:48
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Mece	hehe	16:49
jbos	hey guys, so back on Meego N900 playing. Basically is there a real way to get a Arm Toolchain running?	16:51
Stskeeps	jbos: SDK has a toolchain	16:51
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jbos	we need stuff which ist basically compliant with Meego Compliance Spec	16:51
jbos	but packages are missing von sysroot	16:52
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jbos	like qttelepathy	16:52
Stskeeps	that is in compliance spec but supposed to be in meego api?	16:52
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jbos	mhm the thing is, we download Meego SDK	16:53
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jbos	install Arm Core Handset Target	16:53
jbos	set the qmake qt version	16:54
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jbos	so when we try compile it complains about missing telepathy	16:55
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jbos	so we wonder, can we install it in the Root - because spec from http://wiki.meego.com/Quality/ComplianceTools Tells that it is minimum compliance	16:56
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jbos	how is this supposed to work?	16:56
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Stskeeps	jbos: have you tried OBS yet?	16:57
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jbos	yes, but thats not a solution for me	16:57
Stskeeps	ok	16:57
jbos	we want to start and debug within qt creator	16:57
hirabayashitaro	Yesterday we were talking about the possibility of running latest version of handset in virtualbox. It is supposed to work, but the fact is that i cannot mount the image because it is not an .iso. Any solution?	16:57
Stskeeps	jbos: you can also generate your own sysroot	16:58
jbos	ah	16:58
jbos	ok that sounds like a plan	16:58
Stskeeps	using mic2	16:58
jbos	:)	16:58
RST38h	Developers! DEVELOPERS!	16:59
jbos	so but i cant install later on	16:59
jbos	right?	16:59
Stskeeps	hmm?	16:59
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jbos	like taking trunk	17:00
jbos	and install what i need (and whats supposed to be there - regarding spec)	17:00
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jbos	is there a documentation about building own sysroot	17:02
Stskeeps	mic2	17:03
Stskeeps	the .ks'es are on repo.meego.com	17:03
Stskeeps	afaik	17:03
Hq`	tablet ux feels pretty nice	17:03
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Hq`	but uh... is there no home button or some equivalent?	17:03
Stskeeps	Hq`: windows key	17:03
Hq`	yeah, but that's not very usable in tablet mode...	17:04
Stskeeps	agreed	17:04
Stskeeps	send a patch :)	17:04
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jbos	ok but tell me, whats the point in building own sysroot, should the default trunk (core) include everything that claims to be in core?	17:04
Stskeeps	so, afaik, current sysroot provides what is in meego API	17:04
Mece	Hq`, seems they use the magical touch sensitive button on the tab demoed.	17:04
arfoll	can anyone tell me what the tablet UX is called in /etc/sysconfig/uxlaunch?	17:05
jbos	meego core compliance != meego API?	17:05
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Stskeeps	jbos: meego core compliance is what is required to be on a device	17:05
Stskeeps	meego API = qt + qt mobility + opengl es 2.0	17:05
Hq`	yeah I was suspecting that a separate hardware button is supposed to be used	17:05
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Mece	Hq`, what device are you using?	17:05
Hq`	the s10-3t	17:05
Hq`	maybe it would be possible to make one of its hw buttons (around the screen) work for that purpose	17:06
jbos	mhm ok I dont get the cause why meego API is actually different to compliance - why are you doing it that way?	17:06
Stskeeps	jbos: ok. so	17:06
Stskeeps	jbos: there's two types of compliance	17:06
Mece	Hq`, that one has some funky hw buttons on the screen. needs to be configured.	17:06
Stskeeps	app compliance and device/OS compliance	17:06
Stskeeps	app compliance is for applications	17:07
Stskeeps	device/OS is for the .. well, devices and OS	17:07
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jbos	I mean, in case i want attract devs to develop with me	17:07
Hq`	the sources aren't released yet, right?	17:07
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Stskeeps	Hq`: they're not in MeeGo Trunk yet, but you can read the qml	17:08
Stskeeps	Hq`: as US wakes up i'm expecting to see something	17:08
jbos	you say that i need to provide them my own sysroot and they need to install this in order to work with me	17:09
jbos	they can not simply use a default sysroot and start working?	17:09
Stskeeps	ok, so	17:10
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Stskeeps	as far as i know, the new sdk for 1.2 is supposed to have all development headers in sysroot	17:10
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jbos	ok	17:11
jbos	where to get this? or do i need to wait till april	17:11
Stskeeps	i think it's in progress	17:11
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Dijit	there is a euro on my desk...	17:13
Dijit	did someone lose their euro_	17:13
Dijit	?*	17:13
lcuk	I lost my CC in Europabank!	17:14
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Dijit	I don't have a credit card on my desk	17:14
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abhijeet	meego.com is asking for usename and password while i m trying to open the site...	17:19
Mece	damn tunnel disconnected me and i didn't notice for a long time, lol	17:19
abhijeet	anyone faced same issue??	17:20
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andre__	abhijeet, yes, confirming. feel free to file a bug	17:20
abhijeet	okay..	17:21
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slaine	Wonder can we go back to using the Moblin name now as well as Clutter/MX	17:26
slaine	;P	17:27
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lcuk	slaine, do any decent apps run on Moblin :P I thought everyone had already ported to MeeGo	17:27
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slaine	I'd comment what I really think but only upset people	17:28
rmt2	slaine, Well, I do prefer developing with Vala than C++... ;-)	17:28
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Venemo_N900	slaine: clutter/mx yes, moblin (name) no	17:34
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Venemo_N900	http://drippler.com/nokia_n900/committed-to-linux/?utm_source=wordtwit&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=wordtwit	17:41
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Jartza	ouch http://mrgoodliving.com/	17:44
Venemo_N900	http://blog.heapmemory.net/?p=31	17:45
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Stskeeps	morning qgil - tablet UX launch today seems to help spirits a bit :)	18:00
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TSCHAKeee	yes, indeed... a wise man named George Lucas once said, "Even Star Wars had its Christmas Special. This too, shall pass."	18:02
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qgil	hi Stskeeps - sursum corda!	18:02
arfoll	TSCHAKeee, he also said he'd like to break all the copies with a baseball bat...	18:02
TSCHAKeee	arfoll: indeed he did. ;) I have one, and its' good entertainment, after being sufficiently plastered. ;)	18:03
Stskeeps	TSCHAKeee: i'm fairly interested in when the MeeGo Components for QML gets put out in gitorious etc	18:03
Stskeeps	TSCHAKeee: could be fun to make some apps with it	18:03
TSCHAKeee	arfoll: especially when the Rifftrax commentary is added. ;)	18:03
TSCHAKeee	Stskeeps: indeed :)	18:03
arfoll	TSCHAKeee, i have to admit, i like star wars alot, but I wasn't even able to finish the whole thing. It's painfull	18:03
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TSCHAKeee	arfoll: like a train wreck in slooooow motion	18:04
TSCHAKeee	arfoll: but srsly, the Rifftrax commentary makes it awesome. ;)	18:04
arfoll	uhm... i don't think I have the strength to watch it again	18:04
TSCHAKeee	whoa uh	18:06
TSCHAKeee	somebody swap the CSS for meego.org?	18:06
TSCHAKeee	;)	18:06
TSCHAKeee	nm, meego.org has valentines day CSS	18:06
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Stskeeps	TSCHAKeee: haha	18:07
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Stskeeps	morn DawnFoster	18:07
DawnFoster	morning Stskeeps	18:07
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DawnFoster	oops, afternoon for you	18:07
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DawnFoster	need more tea	18:08
slaine	Evening even DawnFoster	18:08
DawnFoster	Stskeeps: btw, did you send me IRC stats for Jan already?	18:08
DawnFoster	hey slaine	18:08
rzr	TSCHAKeee: who play the wife on the pict ms or nokia ? http://meego.org/wp-content/themes/my-lovely-theme/resource/images/black/bkg-header.png	18:08
rzr	anyway the design is nice	18:08
Mece	DawnFoster, \o	18:08
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lcuk	NOTE: having a dangly lanyard on personal N900 helps prevent flashing mistakes!	18:11
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Stskeeps	DawnFoster: good question	18:12
Stskeeps	lcuk: we don't want to know about your flashing mistakes!	18:12
lcuk	haha	18:12
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VDVsx	probably the most asked question of the day :D	18:14
VDVsx	is there a tutorial to install meego tablet on the ideapad ? :)	18:14
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TSCHAKeee	is it even dropped in yet?	18:15
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TSCHAKeee	also, guys	18:15
TSCHAKeee	I've asked in here	18:15
TSCHAKeee	and i've asked in devel	18:15
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TSCHAKeee	i've had a package submitted and waiting in obs for 5 days	18:15
TSCHAKeee	i have more to do..but i really would like to get dependencies checked in, so i can actually build my software on OBS some day. ;)	18:16
Stskeeps	TSCHAKeee: where did you submit to?	18:16
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TSCHAKeee	Stskeeps: meego core:current:extras	18:16
TSCHAKeee	or something to that effect.	18:17
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Stskeeps	TSCHAKeee: ok, so discuss with lbt - i think part of the problem is that there's no procedures whatsoever	18:17
TSCHAKeee	I have at least 5 or 6 deps I know I need to put together and shove on there, before I even get to my Pluto package.	18:17
TSCHAKeee	ok.	18:17
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Stskeeps	DawnFoster: takes me 5 minutes, so i'll generate them mnow	18:18
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jbos	anyone can tell me how to install the new intel ux on a lenovo ideapad ?	18:22
Stskeeps	DawnFoster: http://stskeeps.subnetmask.net/irc/data/irssistats.jan.html	18:23
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DawnFoster	Stskeeps: sweet, thanks!	18:29
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Stskeeps	DawnFoster: i'm not sure if you know, but is there any information on timeline for tablet ux to start being put into meego?	18:30
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DawnFoster	Stskeeps: the honest answer is that I have no idea.	18:31
Stskeeps	alright - thanks for answering anyway :)	18:31
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DawnFoster	Stskeeps: with all of the thrash last week, a bunch of plans changed & we need to re-plan a bunch of stuff	18:31
Stskeeps	:nod:	18:31
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GAN900	What a mess.	18:34
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jbos	how to get the new netbook ui on an ideapad?	18:35
slaine	DawnFoster: here's hoping that we'll get back on an even keel with a Tablet UX day 1	18:35
slaine	jbos: download the iso and boot from that	18:36
jbos	so from usb stick?	18:36
jbos	just put it on it like the old one?	18:36
slaine	jbos, it's an iso	18:36
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jbos	sure but lenovo st10-3 has no dvd	18:36
slaine	so use an external one	18:37
slaine	Or try unetbootin and see if it makes a usable usb key from the iso	18:37
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slaine	once we get a day 1 we'll have the .ks files and repo's an do will be able to make usb images	18:37
DawnFoster	I used a usb key to install the .iso on my lenovo	18:38
jbos	ok	18:38
jbos	ah cool dawn	18:38
jbos	so how did you do it	18:38
DawnFoster	same process as here: http://meego.com/devices/netbook/installing-meego-your-netbook	18:38
Stskeeps	DawnFoster: nice, it works as usb boot too? cool	18:38
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ahiemstra	jbos: sudo dd if=/path/to/iso of=/dev/usb_disk	18:39
jbos	awesome good	18:39
ahiemstra	by the way, anyone know the status of recent handset images?	18:39
DawnFoster	we need to get a wiki page up with instructions for installing on ideapad / known issues / etc. since so many community members have those	18:40
mwichmann	there is one, isn't there?	18:42
TSCHAKeee	i should have bought one	18:42
TSCHAKeee	i just got another eeePC	18:42
mwichmann	http://wiki.meego.com/Devices/Ideapad could perhaps use some work	18:43
* Naveen_ is away: I'm busy		18:43
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Myrtti	meh	18:44
mwichmann	TSCHAKeee: the s10-3t isn't really anything that special	18:45
qgil	hi DawnFoster & colleagues - sorry for being quite silent but I still need to figure out what is going on. Looking forward to the outcome of the Intel-Nokia meetings at MWC	18:45
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dneary_	hi qgil	18:48
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DawnFoster	hey qgil - no worries - you guys have enough going on right now & these things take time to sort out	18:49
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Jartza	http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=6232984&l=52a3e2ea5b&id=572347907	18:59
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Cosmo\|Uni	looked like a nice building	19:00
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Jaffa	DawnFoster: Is that re-planning happening on meego-pm where possible?	19:00
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DawnFoster	Jaffa: not sure where it's happening.	19:01
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Cosmo\|Uni	hey DawnFoster	19:01
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DawnFoster	Jaffa: keep in mind that this is a really sensitive topic, since it probably involves people's jobs, layoffs at Nokia, etc.	19:01
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DawnFoster	Jaffa: probably needs to be handled a little more delicately to start	19:02
DawnFoster	hey Cosmo\|Uni	19:02
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*** Cosmo\|Uni is now known as CosmoHill		19:02
CosmoHill	how's the monday after?	19:03
Myrtti	I live few stone throws away from that place, go past it by bus almost daily	19:03
Jaffa	DawnFoster: True	19:03
DawnFoster	CosmoHill: still trying to catch up on email, news, etc. :)	19:03
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alterego	Surely, MeeGo doesn't care about what people are actually doing? If those that could possibly lose their jobs because of this disrupting news still want to be here and work for the platform, which I hope they do, then it shouldn't matter.	19:03
Myrtti	it was one ugly building once it was abandoned	19:03
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Alison_Chaiken	Before joining Nokia, I always worked on Linux stuff for no pay. While I enjoy getting paid, I can smoothly transition to being a pure volunteer if needed. I will be at the May MeeGoCon for sure!	19:07
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CosmoHill	I was under the impression you worked for intel	19:10
lbt	me too	19:10
alterego	Heh	19:10
* thiago will be too		19:11
thiago	Alison_Chaiken: is Tom in BCN?	19:11
federico2	It's quite difficult to get jobs where you are paid (well) to develop FOSS projects that you (really) like	19:11
alterego	May MeeGo con ... cool, might have to try that one.	19:11
Alison_Chaiken	thiago, yes Tom and Chuck are in BCN.	19:11
thiago	Alison_Chaiken: I need to talk to them	19:11
thiago	well, to Tom mostly	19:12
alterego	federico2: that's why most people like to fill their spare time with what they love :)	19:12
federico2	too bad :(	19:12
Alison_Chaiken	thiago, Ibrahim and I are in touch with Tom and Chuck.	19:12
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CosmoHill	I'm not to sure I'd want to do something I love as a job	19:14
CosmoHill	I mean it kinda takes the fun out of it when you're obligated to do it	19:14
Stskeeps	CosmoHill: not really	19:14
lbt	CosmoHill: take it from me ... that's bollox	19:14
alterego	Hahah	19:14
timoph	well I do	19:14
alterego	Admittedly, I do like variation, but meh you get that anyway :)	19:15
CosmoHill	awesome, you've made the world a less scary place for me now :)	19:15
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lcuk	timoph, were you born as a meegon or were you genetically altered sometime after?	19:15
* gabrbedd things CosmoHill would be happier doing something he hates for 40 hours a week for the rest of his life.		19:15
gabrbedd	s/things/thinks/	19:16
alterego	Occasionally I think, "Is programming really what I want to do" then I got a girlfriend and that made me realise that it's now the only time I can do it ;)	19:16
lbt	gabrbedd: 40hrs?	19:16
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thiago	CosmoHill: that's what I thought would happen	19:17
thiago	CosmoHill: but not true when I'm working for Qt	19:17
CosmoHill	I've just seen 6 kids go past on scooters O.o	19:17
federico2	CosmoHill, no offense but I think you said the craziest thing :)	19:17
CosmoHill	federico2: you get used to that after a while	19:18
gabrbedd	lbt: range [32, 168)	19:18
alterego	CosmoHill: happens nightly for me, I think they call them selves the "The Knee Nibblers"	19:18
lbt	gabrbedd: better	19:18
federico2	CosmoHill, and that the saddest :)	19:18
CosmoHill	I'm very hard to intentionally insult	19:18
federico2	that's good :)	19:19
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CosmoHill	that and I know where all the swords are kept for when I do get offended	19:19
lardman	CosmoHill: you realise you've thrown down a gauntlet there...? :)	19:20
CosmoHill	more knocked off the counter than thrown	19:20
lardman	:)	19:20
* gabrbedd thinks CosmoHill is a M$ fanboi.		19:21
* CosmoHill thinks ...		19:22
CosmoHill	wait is that a test?	19:22
qgil	Contributing to community projects in your free time is great (and I have done it all my life) - providing you have non-free (paid) time too :)	19:22
gabrbedd	CosmoHill: hee he...	19:22
lardman	CosmoHill: quick, put that large leather glove back on the counter	19:22
thiago	qgil: it's better when you're paid to contribute to projects :-)	19:23
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CosmoHill	how does that work when they pay you to code or something	19:23
CosmoHill	is it done by hours spent or by lines of code?	19:23
alterego	qgil: :)	19:23
qgil	thiago: I can't complain, I have managed almost always turning my hobbies into paid jobs	19:23
Stskeeps	CosmoHill: usually hours/deliverables	19:24
mikhas	CosmoHill, usually measured by removal of lines of code =p	19:24
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alterego	qgil: so how are you doing? Still trying to work things out? I hope you'll find youself continuing to do something you're obviously passionate about.	19:24
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CosmoHill	passion is the best motivator	19:24
velope	passion and a job together	19:25
arfoll	CosmoHill, what uni do you go to?	19:25
CosmoHill	Anglia Ruskin	19:25
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alterego	I am quite passionate about a lot of things, but then, I always end up being passionate about what I'm doing anyway	19:25
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arfoll	nice, i'm not too far normally	19:26
CosmoHill	arfoll: from which campus?	19:26
chouchoune	CosmoHill: in my company, we just have to do "as if" we are coding lines at least ;)	19:26
alterego	Even when I was working with C# .NET I still really enjoyed it, because I just love coding :)	19:26
qgil	alterego: http://bit.ly/hOiFic - I'm basically in listening mode since a bunch of news and details have still to come	19:26
arfoll	CosmoHill, live in cambridge, go to uni in canterbury (Kent)	19:26
arfoll	theres more than one anglia ruskin campus?	19:26
* lbt was always passionate about the companies he worked for.... they eventually beat that out of me ;)		19:26
* Jaffa finds his colleagues lack of passion is the biggest passion sap.		19:26
alterego	qgil: understandably, wish you all the best whatever may or may not come out of the next few months :)	19:26
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Jaffa	It's hard to be passionate about your product when you end up shipping shit :-(	19:27
CosmoHill	arfoll: Cambridge and Chelmsford (where I am) and the main ones, there is also Peterbourh and Farmbrouh I think	19:27
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Alison_Chaiken	qgil and CosmoHill, the problem is that when you get paid to work on your passion, it hurts oh so much more when the corporate overlords decide against you. It's no wonder big companies are filled with burnouts who dont give a damn.	19:27
velope	the hardest thing may be to keep that passion up	19:27
lbt	Alison_Chaiken: I hear you	19:27
arfoll	CosmoHill, so big... might see you at a meego meetup when i'm back in england then	19:28
alterego	Alison_Chaiken: I understand, been there, yet I still pushed and pushed them, creating solutions unpaid, in my own time to impress "them" which eventually paid off.	19:28
arfoll	if they still do them in cambridge	19:28
CosmoHill	they crap on you too much you start thinking "whaty's the point of trying?"	19:28
alterego	Alison_Chaiken: then I got the sack :)	19:28
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qgil	Alison_Chaiken: I prefer x100000 being passionate and get hurt from time to time than having a skin as thick as my boredom at work	19:28
CosmoHill	arfoll: that's what sh...yes they are big campuses	19:28
Alison_Chaiken	lbt, I made some contributions to the giant magnetoresistance in its first days and helped make HDD storage cost pennies per GB. No one at a company can take that kind of thing away from you. alterego, do great work and be proud.	19:28
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CosmoHill	I started in 2008 and since then two new buildings have been built	19:29
dneary_	Alison_Chaiken, Stormy Peters gave a presentation a few years ago called "would you do it again for free?"	19:29
alterego	Alison_Chaiken: I do, or try to :)	19:29
lbt	Alison_Chaiken: I thank you for my 4Tb MythTV box :)	19:29
alterego	Hahah	19:29
dneary_	Alison_Chaiken, The question was: you start off as a passionate volunteer, then you get hired, then you leave your job/get fired/whatever	19:30
Alison_Chaiken	lbt, good to thank me now before HDD disappear and kids don't know what they are!	19:30
lbt	g	19:30
dneary_	Would you go back to the passionate volunteerism that got you hired in the first place, or do you move in?	19:30
lbt	dneary_: hey, I'm still here!	19:30
dneary_	Hi lbt	19:30
alterego	Hah	19:30
lbt	although technically not been fired ... yet	19:30
dneary_	I didn't see any responses to my email	19:30
CosmoHill	Alison_Chaiken: I held up a 7" vinyl to my cousins and they just looked at me blankly	19:30
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Alison_Chaiken	dneary, I'm all in for MeeGoCon, even though it conflicts with the amazingly awesome Maker Faire, which I have never missed a minute of!	19:30
lbt	dneary_: no rush ...	19:30
CosmoHill	"it's like a large DVD"	19:30
alterego	Where are the details of MeeGo Con?	19:31
dneary_	Alison_Chaiken, I didn't know you were a Maker Faire person	19:31
slaine	oh dear god let this conf call end	19:31
CosmoHill	that reminds me, my copy of Monsters Inc is still in France	19:31
Alison_Chaiken	I'd like to think "passionate volunteerism" continues in parallel with paid work without interruption.	19:31
pupnik_	i still think the archos omap3640 tablets are great meego platforms	19:31
CosmoHill	federico2: how's that for crazy	19:31
Alison_Chaiken	dneary_, I have been an exhibitor at Maker Faire every year. Except this year!	19:31
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velope	If I was forced to programming with Windows API, I may not have much passion. I would be like rolling a stones for living.	19:32
pupnik_	except maybe the 256MB ram	19:32
velope	It*	19:32
Alison_Chaiken	My Dad emailed me that Microsoft's investment in Nokia must give me hope. He hasn't quite grokked the open source thing.	19:33
lardman	velope: depends what you're coding	19:33
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pupnik_	you make great things happen, you touch other people, you make the world a better place...	19:33
alterego	velope: in my experience MS tools are very good quality, they have a very good team. It's just not my passion to develop for them.	19:33
Andy80	hi	19:33
alterego	Though I have	19:33
lardman	velope: and what language you're using, though yeah MFC is nasty	19:33
alterego	And can't really complain.	19:33
Alison_Chaiken	Hey velope, would you like frittes with that?	19:33
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CosmoHill	Alison_Chaiken: maybe from his point of view, one big company has annoused a partnership with your big company, therefore your job must be safe and might even get a pay rise	19:33
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* lbt would still rather buy MS than Apple :)		19:34
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lbt	he rather likes his MS keyboard...	19:34
Andy80	probably it's a FAQ today, but.... has any of you been able to download and install the MeeGo 1.2 tablet image on Lenovo Ideapad? I downloaded it but someone told me it's a CD iso and I've to burn it on a cd, but... wtf?! Lenovo has no cd!	19:34
* arfoll agrees with lbt		19:34
RST38h	well. moo.	19:34
Alison_Chaiken	CosmoHill, that's what my Dad thinks. I had some problems explaining to him why I belong to a club called "Hacker Dojo" as well.	19:34
* slaine is an apple fanboi		19:34
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Stskeeps	Andy80: write it to usb	19:34
jausmus	Andy80: dd it to a USB stick	19:34
CosmoHill	hey Andy80	19:35
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lbt	arfoll: it astonishes me how many 'OSS' people give money to the most oppressive system out there	19:35
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Alison_Chaiken	lbt, the wireless MS mouse was developed at HP Labs, another former failing employer, but I shouldn't dwell on that, or I will actually cry!	19:35
CosmoHill	I believe there may be something on the FAQ, if not I'll get it added	19:35
lbt	ooh... HP labs.... I nearly worked there	19:35
arfoll	lbt, i try to convince even family members about this very fact	19:35
Andy80	Stskeeps, jausmus I did it with: sudo dd bs=4096 if=meego-tablet-ia32-pinetrail.iso of=/dev/sde1, but when I try to boot from that USB nothing happens	19:35
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CosmoHill	slaine: I think apple are evil bastards	19:35
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jausmus	try of=/dev/sda	19:35
lbt	arfoll: it's like talking to crack addicts	19:35
Stskeeps	Andy80: sde	19:35
jausmus	sde	19:36
Stskeeps	not sde1	19:36
CosmoHill	sure, I just typed that on a 2005 powerbook but that's not my point	19:36
jausmus	:)	19:36
Andy80	Stskeeps: ok, I try again thanks :)	19:36
CosmoHill	jausmus: as asmusing as jokes are, people get really pissed if you wipe their hard drives	19:36
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jausmus	CosmoHill: aww - take all my fun away! ;)	19:36
Alison_Chaiken	Andy80, I have pinetrail handset and netbook images running on WeTab and ExoPC, but they have problems. (Check wiki.meego.com.) I'll go ahead and put tablet UX on. Speaking of which, back to work!	19:36
* jausmus misread his original cmdline :)		19:36
arfoll	lbt, worst is when they run a VM with linux in it 24/7 because they're not too sure how to do anything else but open virtualbox...	19:36
federico2	CosmoHill, err... what do you mean?	19:37
CosmoHill	that reminds me, one node failed because some weird 1" Molex to Molex cable broke	19:37
CosmoHill	federico2: you said I said crazy things and I just said one of my DVD's is in france	19:37
Andy80	Alison_Chaiken: ok, let me check wiki.meego.com	19:37
lbt	Alison_Chaiken: mmm work.... get it whilst you can ;)	19:37
CosmoHill	so I was joking that I said another crazy thing	19:37
* lbt -> work too ...... l8r all		19:38
federico2	oh no /o\ a DVD! In france! /o\	19:38
CosmoHill	federico2: the crazy bit being I've never been to france	19:38
arfoll	CosmoHill, you're better off that way	19:38
TSCHAKeee	where IS the tablet image?	19:39
slaine	http://intel.ly/gq8OTA	19:40
slaine	TSCHAKeee: see link ^^^	19:40
Andy80	http://intel.ly/gq8OTA	19:40
CosmoHill	oh yeah you need to agree to the non-disclousure thingy	19:40
slaine	using swype keyboard	19:40
CosmoHill	ooo, I've heard of that	19:40
slaine	that won't be in the repo's	19:40
CosmoHill	seems like my kinda thing	19:40
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TSCHAKeee	did they put the GMA500 drivers on the disc?	19:41
Andy80	Stskeeps: ok, at least it's booting now, let's wait :)	19:41
slaine	don't think its targeted at that kind of hardware	19:42
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Stskeeps	slaine: QML ran quite nicely on my joggler	19:42
arfoll	it's listed as pinetrail which probably means it's for wetab/S10-3t like hardware	19:42
slaine	arfoll: nod	19:43
arfoll	aka Atom+NM10	19:43
slaine	Stskeeps: great	19:43
Stskeeps	slaine: MTF broke the emgd completely though, but no surprises in that ;)	19:43
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TSCHAKeee	argh	19:43
* Stskeeps writes tablet image to disk		19:43
TSCHAKeee	:(	19:43
arfoll	i'm sure vgrade will quickly do his magic and get us tablet UX on joggler/EMGD once the repo's are up	19:43
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TSCHAKeee	arfoll: well I can do that too, once the files are up	19:44
TSCHAKeee	but yeah, i was just hoping. ;)	19:44
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Andy80	ok... it runs....	19:44
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Andy80	well... are they serious :D ????!?!?!?	19:44
TSCHAKeee	wtf does it look like?	19:44
Andy80	6 months working to this crappy stuf?!	19:44
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Andy80	it's not April 1st...	19:44
Stskeeps	Andy80: oi, that's rude	19:44
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Andy80	Stskeeps: yes, I'm rude, I know... but what should I say?	19:45
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Stskeeps	and where do you get the 6 month figure from anyway :)	19:45
Andy80	probably more	19:45
Andy80	that's what scares me...	19:45
arfoll	Stskeeps, i think thats when intel showed the mockup at IDF of tablet on meego	19:45
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TSCHAKeee	Andy80: do you honestly know what it takes to build a complete operating environment, with a UI from scratch these days, given expectations?	19:46
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TSCHAKeee	it's astronomical.	19:46
TSCHAKeee	so chill the fuck out.	19:46
jausmus	Andy80: patches welcome ;)	19:46
Andy80	I can't neother close the setting windows O__o	19:47
DawnFoster	and language, people!	19:47
Andy80	neither	19:47
berndhs	i dont think the 6 months were spend designing the shading of buttons :)	19:47
arfoll	jausmus, where do we send the patches?	19:47
jausmus	Andy80: hit the home button	19:47
DawnFoster	reminder: http://wiki.meego.com/IRC_guidelines	19:47
* TSCHAKeee rolls eyes.		19:47
Stskeeps	arfoll: contribution guidelines probably still apply, but i'm unsure if there's a git up	19:47
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jausmus	arfoll: well, I'm sure the stock answer is to attach them to a bug on bugs.meego.com :)	19:48
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arfoll	jausmus, and where is the code?	19:48
Andy80	sorry if I expected more from this release....	19:48
gabrbedd	Andy80: It's not a release, and the link calls it an "alpha preview"	19:49
jausmus	arfoll: not sure if I'm allowed to talk about that, but I've noticed that there is a certain inevitable openness about QML...	19:49
Andy80	ok, my mistake than... I did think a product was announced	19:49
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arfoll	jausmus, :-), i'd quite like to add a feature that will require a little more open code than that	19:50
Stskeeps	well, at least dpi is not correct on s10-3t	19:50
Andy80	good question arfoll :)	19:50
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Andy80	where can we find the whole source code of this?	19:50
* jausmus continues to push for more openness as well		19:51
TSCHAKeee	if it's like every other MeeGo UX push	19:51
Stskeeps	jausmus: cool work on it, needs some polish but hopefully people can contribute that over time	19:51
TSCHAKeee	the code drop will happen 'sometime soon'	19:51
dm8tbr	I'm sure there soon will be a market for javascript^wQML-obfuscators ;)	19:51
jausmus	actually, the majority of the core OS is standard MeeGo 1.2, and the majority of the UI is QML	19:51
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jausmus	there's a few additional UI pieces that are compiled that you can't get to at the moment, but we're trying :)	19:52
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arfoll	jausmus, can you ellaborate on majority of the core OS is standard? Is it not just a meego 1.1.90 snapshot?	19:52
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sivang	re all	19:52
Stskeeps	arfoll: that's what it looks like, after digging around in the fs	19:52
Stskeeps	it's fairly nicely architected	19:52
sivang	jausmus: what was released?	19:53
jausmus	really, the the only pieces that aren't straight from build.meego.com are the top-most UI layers	19:53
* sivang wonders what everybody are talking about		19:53
Andy80	jausmus: yes, it would be nice if the whole development was made in open space... not kept secret for months...	19:53
sivang	jausmus: Inte's tablet?	19:53
arfoll	jausmus, ok cool - thanks for sharing	19:53
Andy80	in this way we (the community) cannot contribute during development	19:53
* jausmus agrees wholeheartedly...		19:53
jausmus	but I don't get to set policy ;)	19:53
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arfoll	Stskeeps, i will have to check it out tonight on my lenovo s10-3t, has anyone found a fix for dpi?	19:53
Stskeeps	arfoll: not sure	19:54
Andy80	we may not have all your (Intel/other partners) skills and experience, but someone could have good ideas	19:54
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jausmus	Andy80: again, I don't think you'd get any disagreement from any of us developers... :)	19:55
gabrbedd	Ha! Swype is kewl!	19:55
jausmus	:)	19:56
Stskeeps	jausmus: i'd like to applaud a job quite well done though, i've been poking around in the qml bits and initial impression of trying it out is that it performs quite well	19:56
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jausmus	Stskeeps: thanks, it's nice to hear good feedback :)	19:56
jausmus	of course, I'm more than happy to hear negative feedback (about the code/UI itself) - always happy to work to improve the experience	19:57
gabrbedd	jausmus: So, this is your baby?	19:57
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Stskeeps	jausmus: any bits you worked on, just to keep track?	19:57
jausmus	I'm one of the proud parents, but certainly not the only one ;)	19:57
gabrbedd	jausmus: (the tablet ux, that is)	19:57
auke	There's a whole team at Intel working on that	19:58
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jausmus	I own panels, the social networking infrastructure, the sharing infrastructure, and am involved in the common UI and infrastructure code	19:58
gabrbedd	jausmus, auke: Nice! Is there a way to force the keyboard to pop up any time that I want it?	19:59
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Stskeeps	jausmus: cool	20:00
jausmus	gabrbedd: no way to force it to pop- up at any time - there's a way to force it to go away though :)	20:00
jausmus	at least, AFAIK	20:00
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Stskeeps	jausmus: i'm personally curious about MeeGo.Components in qml and what the story there will be :P	20:00
Stskeeps	as it'd be nice to make these kind of apps as well	20:00
jausmus	gabrbedd: do you have a case where it doesn't show up when it should?	20:00
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Andy80	jausmus: I promise I'll try to be more costructive with my critics in future, but.... try to understand me: I'm one of the thousand of people still angry for the recent Nokia decision, so it's quite difficoult for me to still trust MeeGo :\	20:00
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jausmus	Andy80: I understand :)	20:01
jausmus	Andy80: I still trust MeeGo - it's my job... ;)	20:01
gabrbedd	jausmus: Well, yes... whenever I port pure Xlib apps to MeeGo, and even some GTK+ apps, the keyboard doesn't always show up at the right time.	20:01
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Stskeeps	gabrbedd: for GTK+ there's a IM bridge, i think	20:01
gabrbedd	jausmus: And some workflows... I need tohave some manner of random keystroke.	20:01
Stskeeps	for meego input method	20:01
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jausmus	gabrbedd: yeah, I think there's some infrastructure work to do to make the KB work properly across GTK apps - I'm not sure if we'll address pure Xlib apps - don't know what the plans are around that	20:02
gabrbedd	Stskeeps: Yes, I'm aware of the IM bridge... but when working on an audio DAW... it's not as clear-cut when the keyboard should appear.	20:02
jausmus	gabrbedd: "some manner of random keystroke"? Can you give me an example of what you're trying to do?	20:02
gabrbedd	jausmus: Well, the easist workaround is to have a button that always allows the kb to pop up.	20:03
sivang	Stskeeps: what is the product?	20:03
VDVsx	tablet ux works quite nice in the ideapad, in the video seemed to lack a bit :D good job	20:03
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Andy80	is it known, more or less, when this tablet UX will reach the 1.0 status?	20:03
gabrbedd	jausmus: Examples include Ardour, Energy XT, Renoise, etc.	20:03
gabrbedd	jausmus: While developing the Indamixx 2 using the Netbook UX... the "bridges" were never reliable enough for the apps we're using.	20:05
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jausmus	gabrbedd: file a bug? ;)	20:05
gabrbedd	jausmus: Hee hee...	20:05
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gabrbedd	jausmus: Well, that brings me to the next part....	20:05
lbt	jausmus: and it will work without the virt-kb when I have a BT or USB keyboard won't it ? :)	20:05
jausmus	ideally, the infrastructure should be good enough that you would never need a way to force the KB to appear - it should always Just Work	20:05
jausmus	if it doesn't, it's a bug :)	20:05
Stskeeps	sivang: intel tablet ux for ia32	20:06
jausmus	lbt: absolutely :)	20:06
lbt	jausmus: :)	20:06
lbt	incidentally, where are you planning on putting the code?	20:06
gabrbedd	jausmus: If I want to make a custom-rolled version of the Tablet UX... who should I contact about that?	20:06
TSCHAKeee	...	20:06
jausmus	gabrbedd: That's a good question, the answer of which a lowly developer like I doesn't know :)	20:06
TSCHAKeee	gabrbedd: once the repo and the ks are out... you can do that yourself	20:07
gabrbedd	jausmus: I actually set out a week or two ago working on the Handset UX to doo... what you just did!	20:07
TSCHAKeee	gabrbedd: that's what our tools are for :P	20:07
auke	gabrbedd: I'd say - the mailing list for now.	20:07
velope	Andy80: are you also an another trojan horse, we have one already ;)	20:07
jausmus	gabrbedd: Sorry we stole your work ;)	20:07
gabrbedd	auke, jausmus: So, it is planned to release this publicly (gitorious, etc) ?	20:08
gabrbedd	jausmus: No! Thank you! I'd rather work on the audio apps than reinventing the WM.	20:08
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auke	gabrbedd: I don't know the answer to that, sorry.	20:08
jausmus	:)	20:08
jausmus	gabrbedd: I'm not in a position that I'm allowed to answer that type of question :/	20:09
Stskeeps	gabrbedd: well, at least the QML files has apache license, so maybe one day	20:09
timoph	damn. I still haven't been able to download the tablet image. It just stops at some point and browser thinks it has the full file	20:09
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gabrbedd	jausmus: Is there any business agent I should contact?	20:10
Stskeeps	gabrbedd: i think there was something listed in the EULA	20:10
Andy80	velope: no, I'm not :) I'm an opensource entusiast, I manage a Linux user group since 2001 in my city and I like to develop free software. In particular I loved to develop with Qt for portable devices, but... now that I know that Symbian+MeeGo+Qt ecosystem is not the future of Nokia, I really don't know what to do...	20:10
gabrbedd	Stskeeps: ok.	20:10
gabrbedd	Stskeeps: thanks.	20:10
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jausmus	I'm not involved with the business side of things (thanksfully!) - I get to stay focused on the code, so I've no idea... Sorry :/	20:10
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jausmus	evidently, the caffeine hasn't hit my fingers yet... <sigh>	20:11
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* jausmus goes away for a bit		20:12
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jausmus	feel free to message me directly in the meantime if you have any other questions I might be able to answer (emphasis on might) :)	20:13
gabrbedd	jausmus: Thanks, dude!	20:13
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gabrbedd	Anybody know how to switch apps in the Tablet UX ?	20:14
Stskeeps	gabrbedd: windows key	20:14
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thiago_home	the tablet ux is made for tablets with a hardware key	20:14
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gabrbedd	Stskeeps: Got it, thanks.	20:14
RST38h	hey vdvsx, long timeno see	20:15
VDVsx	RST38h, well, I was here 5mins ago :D	20:15
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leinir	well, there's a couple of hardware keys on the ideapad as well... just not the one that the ux wants ;)	20:15
vlj	hi	20:16
vlj	there is a new tablet image	20:16
* VDVsx is installing tablet ux, after a try from usb drive		20:16
vlj	can I install it on a desktop computer ?	20:16
CosmoHill	vlj: does your desktop have a touch screen?	20:16
vlj	as it is "pinetrail" named, and obviously is tablet optimised	20:16
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gabrbedd	leinir: I've tried to hot-rod those keys... but they continue to elude me. :-(	20:16
vlj	CosmoHill, no, but maybe the mouse cursor can act as a finger ?	20:17
leinir	gabrbedd: damn...	20:17
CosmoHill	vlj: from a software point of view it should work	20:17
CosmoHill	but kinda defeats the point	20:17
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berndhs	it sort of works on a laptop, you get some idea of what it does	20:17
vlj	ok	20:18
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vlj	and what kind of hardware does it need ?	20:18
vlj	I mean : special gfx required ?	20:18
berndhs	and I say that after a good 3 minutes of experimentation	20:18
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Ulf_	Hi	20:18
gabrbedd	vlj: A netbook or tablet with Atom N450.	20:18
Stskeeps	hi Ulf_	20:18
Ulf_	Hi Stskeeps	20:18
gabrbedd	vlj: Some others will work, but that's the most prevelent.	20:18
Stskeeps	ooh. multitouch works	20:19
vlj	gabrbedd, z520 + poulsbo ? :p	20:19
gabrbedd	Anybody know how to close an app on Tablet?	20:20
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Andy80	Stskeeps: yeah... I tried to zoom in-out a picture :P	20:21
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gabrbedd	FWIW, multitouch worked on the ideapad with the 1.1 Hanset Pineview build.	20:22
lardman	lcuk: ping	20:22
lcuk	pong	20:22
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vlj	gabrbedd, is the ui hardware accelerated ?	20:23
Stskeeps	qml's quite likely, yeah	20:23
lardman	talking about Machester Science museum, i see the gadget show this evening is from there	20:23
lardman	spelling as good as ever ;)	20:23
gabrbedd	vlj: Um, I just shut it down... but... probably.	20:23
vlj	Stskeeps, I thought qml was not	20:23
lcuk	yes lardman I saw too :)	20:23
lcuk	made me smile	20:23
Stskeeps	vlj: sure it is	20:24
Stskeeps	vlj: you can switch modes	20:24
lardman	lcuk: cool, just thought I'd let you know :)	20:24
lcuk	lardman, Tracy and I went to Machester conference centre last week, theres a load of events up here this year :)	20:24
vlj	but by default tablet ux run with hardware acceleration ?	20:24
lardman	lcuk: unfortunately Meego not amongst them	20:25
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lcuk	lardman, really? did MeeGo just stop or something?	20:25
lcuk	I was under the impression it was just getting started.	20:25
* lardman hopes so		20:25
VDVsx	humm, can I setup wifi network in the ideapad with the tablet ux ? :D	20:26
Stskeeps	VDVsx: you may have to install broacom drivers	20:26
VDVsx	bah	20:26
vlj	does meego tablet run with xorg ?	20:27
Stskeeps	vlj: yes	20:27
vlj	or wayland ?	20:27
vlj	ok	20:27
vlj	but no source atm ?	20:27
sivang	VDVsx: yes, it needs prop. drivers :)	20:27
sivang	VDVsx: you should have taken the red usb stick at Dublin :p	20:27
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gabrbedd	vlj: Best I can tell, it's an adaption of the Handset UX for tablets.	20:28
vlj	ok	20:28
sivang	VDVsx: or are you referring to the new intel meego ux in MWC?	20:28
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Hq`	image zooming seems to be quite laggy, don't think there's much hw acceleration going on	20:28
* sivang is glad no community effort was put to create a tablet UX as this would have been duplication of efforts		20:29
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lcuk	Hq`, image zooming is slow?	20:29
VDVsx	sivang, tablet ux	20:30
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* VDVsx tries cable		20:30
sivang	VDVsx: yep, where do I download it?	20:30
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* sivang wants to finally read books on the ideapad		20:30
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VDVsx	actually wifi works after plug the cable the networks shown up, lol	20:32
VDVsx	sivang, link is somewhere above	20:32
sivang	yes, google says 'no' :)	20:32
* sivang looks up		20:32
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vlj	RST38h, you're working for nokia ? :p	20:32
RST38h	no	20:33
Hq`	lcuk: yeah, I'm talking about pinch-zooming images on the tablet ux :)	20:33
gabrbedd	sivang: http://intel.ly/gq8OTA	20:33
vlj	RST38h, you're working on meego-image-editor on your free time ?	20:33
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RST38h	vlj: No	20:35
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sivang	gabrbedd: thanks	20:39
sivang	frankly I don't mind if this tablet UX is being released after and we make it better.	20:40
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sivang	so the start of it happend behind clsoed doors, lots of open source projects started this way and we can't be too picky right now :p	20:40
sivang	but a note to the community could have been nice so nobody would go waste his time duplicating this effort, but well...	20:41
Stskeeps	i'm personally hoping they'll see the light and improve IVI and Handset UX.	20:41
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sivang	Stskeeps: Intel?	20:41
Stskeeps	yeah, using this	20:41
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lpotter	nokia has not stopped work on meego	20:42
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sivang	lpotter: true	20:43
sivang	Stskeeps: I hope so action would start in IVI again. Things has been quite since friday	20:44
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sivang	Stskeeps: I'm still waiting for Jeremiah's respnse from back then	20:44
sivang	Stskeeps: I mean, ont he bug report	20:44
Stskeeps	mm	20:45
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sivang	lpotter: I do hope Nokia do stick to meego for the next linux os they'll release, some peopel think that even if they do, it won't be meego or close although it might share some of the plumbing.	20:46
sivang	lpotter: I mean, after the meego release in 2011	20:46
Myrtti	"for the next linux os they'll release"	20:47
Myrtti	erhm.	20:47
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sivang	Myrtti: linux based os :)	20:48
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* gabrbedd thinks lpotter is a disruption.		20:48
gabrbedd	:-)	20:48
thiago_home	sivang: the meego device nokia is scheduled to ship is using harmattan	20:49
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thiago_home	so not quite meego	20:49
sivang	thiago_home: right, so at least not farther then harmattan ;)	20:49
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vlj	hi ab	20:50
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ab	hi vlj	20:53
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RST38h	moo ab	20:53
ab	RST38h, beh	20:53
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thiago_home	qgil: ping	21:21
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qgil	thiago_home: pong	21:22
valianholt	anyone used WebOS and can say what is the Linux experience on it in comparison with Maemo?	21:22
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Stskeeps	valianholt: probably a better question for #maemo or #webos-internals	21:22
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valianholt	kk	21:23
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hirabayashitaro	any hint on how to use .bin handset meego image as .iso?	21:31
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pupnik_	bchunk - CD image format conversion from bin/cue to iso/cdr	21:35
pupnik_	furiusisomount - An ISO, IMG, BIN, MDF and NRG image management utility	21:35
pupnik_	iat - Converts many CD-ROM image formats to iso9660	21:36
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pupnik_	you might be able to mount it directly as well, hirabayashitaro	21:38
hirabayashitaro	pupnik_: seems that vitualbox is not actually supporting bin images	21:38
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pupnik_	i have no idea why hirabayashitaro	21:40
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pupnik_	but i thought open-source images should be .iso anyway	21:41
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Andy80	do you know if it's possible to make wifi work with lastest MeeGo 1.2 image on Lenovo Ideapad? (I've a broadcom wifi card)	21:43
lcuk	Andy80, how did you boot it? it got as far as X11 cursor for me lol	21:44
Andy80	lcuk: I simply copied the image on a USB pen with this command: sudo dd bs=4096 if=meego-tablet-ia32-pinetrail.iso of=/dev/sde	21:45
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timeless	Andy80: w/ the original image you had to install the closed driver	21:45
Andy80	only the ethernet connection works	21:45
timeless	not sure if they fixed that for 1.2	21:45
timeless	http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/MIGR-69744.html	21:46
timeless	looks promising	21:46
Andy80	timeless: it's for 64bit	21:46
Andy80	a MeeGo package would be better ;)	21:47
Andy80	but I didn't find any application manager inside	21:47
gabrbedd	Andy80: It's been discussed on meego-dev. Upstream in-kernel modules won't be ready for prime time in 1.2. The package that David Graeves maintains is still needing a patch to adapt it to the 2.6.37 kernel.	21:48
sivang	timeless: I think we are now closer to a proper tablet UX compared to the windows that came ont he ideapad, some of the missing apps could be implemented as well :)	21:48
timeless	http://www.broadcom.com/docs/linux_sta/README.txt	21:49
pierce	Andy80: I ended up getting these drivers working http://www.broadcom.com/support/802.11/linux_sta.php	21:50
hirabayashitaro	Well, I'll give up. No way of converting bin images whitout .cue with bchunk	21:50
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pierce	Andy80: brcm and b43 failed hard when I tried those routes, and even broadcom-wl was a huge pain. I had to rewrite a few lines in their code, and recompile the meego kernel to get it working :-/	21:51
Andy80	I think I'll wait for an update then... I don't have time to try to build it myself	21:52
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gabrbedd	Sorry... it's Glen Gray that maintains the package.	21:52
pierce	rumor has it that brcm is going to start working for reals any day now	21:52
pierce	I get instant OOPs when I try it though right now	21:52
blizzow	Wow what a shitty week, Nokia becomes Microsoft's butt-buddy and Peter Forsberg is retiring again. :(	21:52
Stskeeps	blizzow: #meego-bar , that kind of talk is better over beer	21:53
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vlj	ab: I have a question ...	21:54
vlj	is there a small gui tool to test the output of a quillfilter plugin ?	21:54
ab	vlj, http://maemo.gitorious.org/meego-image-editor/qt-image-editor-demo	21:55
vlj	ab: thx... it needs some dependency besides qt ?	21:56
ab	there are few demo UIs there	21:56
RST38h	vlj: If you had a question about spacic, that is mine	21:56
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RST38h	Although I am not actively maintaining it, just donated the code	21:57
vlj	spacic ?	21:57
ab	vlj, nope, only quill libraries	21:57
RST38h	if you do notknow what it is, do not worry	21:57
ab	that our badly hidden gem :)	21:57
vlj	ok	21:57
lcuk	there are lots of gems which need polishing ab :)	21:57
ab	lcuk, that's right.	21:57
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hirabayashitaro	f**k, it's becoming a match between e and my computer. Please teach me how to run handset image on virtualbox... It should be compliant with emulated standard architecture isn't it?	22:01
Stskeeps	hirabayashitaro: handset requires gles/egl support and i'm not sure VBox supports that	22:02
javispedro	nah, vbox does gl only via chromiumgl	22:03
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gabrbedd	Actually, doesn't all meego require gles/egl for 1.2 ?	22:03
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timeless	Stskeeps: vbox supports opengl2	22:04
timeless	not sure about gles	22:04
lbt	hmm ... so how do you exit the settings in this new UX ?	22:04
Stskeeps	lbt: windows button	22:05
Stskeeps	i think the idea is to use a switch button on the hw	22:05
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lbt	ah... I had the screen in 'tablet' mode :)	22:05
lbt	thanks	22:05
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hirabayashitaro	anyway my problem is simpler. I cannot mount the image to start the virtual machine	22:06
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javispedro	on the demo hw they were using the proximity sensor as button =)	22:06
Stskeeps	wasn't that a n900 trick?	22:07
javispedro	yeah	22:07
javispedro	(also)	22:07
thiago_home	javispedro: so "jedi mind trick" to go back to the home screen?	22:07
thiago_home	javispedro: "these are not the droids you're looking for"	22:08
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javispedro	heh	22:08
Stskeeps	someone should use the webcam to recognise a vulcan salute as a gesture to close a window	22:08
javispedro	I think Androidekas actually mandate front buttons	22:08
valianholt	hmm, interesting that WebOS IRC has actually a lot less people than MeeGo, probably much smaller community and people in interest	22:09
RST38h	Stskeeps: why not use the accelerometer to recognize the beating-at-the-desk gesture?	22:09
thiago_home	also smaller development team	22:09
RST38h	javispedro: so how was the WebOS?	22:09
javispedro	dev event is tomorrow	22:10
valianholt	this gives me a feeling, that if HP invests in WebOS, which is actually less liked than MeeGo, it's very sad that Nokia dropped MeeGo	22:10
* javispedro knows that this will end in a "better move over to the #bar ;) "		22:10
valianholt	even without any marketing from Nokia, MeeGo already is very well known in the world	22:11
sivang	re again	22:11
valianholt	ah ok sorry	22:11
valianholt	:D	22:11
lpotter	nokia has not dropped meego	22:11
valianholt	I know	22:11
sivang	lpotter: put this in the topic :)	22:11
RST38h	javispedro: We can just go to #maemo, it is more friendly there	22:11
valianholt	but Nokia stated that will release 1 device and then long pause to decide what next	22:11
valianholt	what a semi-drop	22:11
sivang	javispedro: politics are a large portion of the discussions there :)	22:11
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pupnik_	i wonder if someone has done facial gestures cursor control for handicapped people	22:12
valianholt	I agree that this is for bar, sorry again	22:13
pupnik_	oop same here	22:13
sivang	btw, for anybody in interest to follow me on quality and open source stuff as well as architecting good web backend for mobile apps, follow me on twitter	22:16
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forcer	wonder if device will actualy be a phone..	22:18
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valianholt	does anybody know if Intel is going to have any event yet? (at MWC), they showed some device today, but very quickly, without detail	22:25
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forcer	valianholt: be patient, time will come	22:26
valianholt	forcer: and that means yes? :D	22:26
forcer	valianholt: I hope so :)	22:27
valianholt	forcer: :)	22:27
valianholt	actually, is there already a lot of MeeGo x86 software for handsets? (developed on Aava) or most of the software is ARM?	22:28
valianholt	anyhow, how difficult is the porting?	22:28
Stskeeps	easy	22:28
Stskeeps	if you build for meego api you're pretty guaranteed it	22:29
Stskeeps	ll build for both	22:29
valianholt	great, so there are no worries that ARM handset repositories will be full and x86 lacking	22:29
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Stskeeps	everything is in one big trunk atm	22:29
valianholt	because I am really considering upcoming Aava	22:30
RST38h	Aava is fordevelopers onlyAFAIK	22:30
RST38h	no consumer sales	22:30
valianholt	as I owned openmoko once, I like open phones, just from the idea	22:30
valianholt	I know	22:30
valianholt	but how they restrict selling only to devs?	22:30
valianholt	I can register as developer right?	22:30
Stskeeps	by charging 2300 eur	22:30
Stskeeps	:P	22:30
valianholt	but the price is too high, even if I want to be a dev, but studying or so, I can't afford it	22:31
Stskeeps	:nod:	22:31
Stskeeps	which is why arm is attractive ;)	22:32
valianholt	openmoko has also low volume of sales and is a lot cheaper (yes I consider even fact it's on old HW)	22:32
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RST38h	valia: they restrict by charging you $1500+	22:32
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valianholt	:-/	22:33
hirabayashitaro	Can please someone explain me what is part of meego project and what is created and maneged by the various companies adopting it?	22:35
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hirabayashitaro	I mean, if this is not fake http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5I9yBigBW6c and Intel is developing a pad environment, in which way it will be related to meego bug system & co.	22:36
Stskeeps	hirabayashitaro: ok, so, meego is a platform where there exists reference user experiences for	22:36
javispedro	hey, the ui on that video is different that the one I saw.	22:36
javispedro	*from the one	22:36
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Stskeeps	javispedro: i think after you customize it a bit it gets like that	22:36
Stskeeps	hirabayashitaro: each of the components in the platform is maintained by someone	22:37
Stskeeps	hirabayashitaro: intel's UX is technically a product built on top of meego.	22:37
mihero	javispedro: what video?	22:37
Stskeeps	hirabayashitaro: but not part of meego, like handset UX is	22:37
Stskeeps	(yet)	22:38
javispedro	mihero: see a few lines above.	22:38
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mihero	ah, there. should prolly get glasses	22:38
javispedro	Stskeeps: aren't you thinking that this tablet ux would make for a nice meegotouch-home? ;)	22:39
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Stskeeps	javispedro: see my twitter for my thoughs	22:39
Stskeeps	ts	22:39
Stskeeps	:P	22:39
hirabayashitaro	Stskeeps: fine, and how all is managed? I mean, what is part of Meego and what is built on it? Are there some reference applications such as media player or something or is simply a platform where anyone will develop his own ones?	22:39
Stskeeps	hirabayashitaro: that's handled using the requirements process - there's reference applications	22:40
Stskeeps	but in most cases people will build upon those reference apps or make their own	22:40
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Stskeeps	hirabayashitaro: if it's not on repo.meego.com, it's not part of meego releases ;)	22:41
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hirabayashitaro	Stskeeps: I see. But I suppose there will be many additional software based on meego, and I'd like to understand how this part of the project will be managed	22:42
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Stskeeps	hirabayashitaro: that's handled through the compliance process where you get told if you're allowed to use meego trademark	22:42
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sivang	javispedro: and please retwit	22:43
sivang	javispedro: :)	22:43
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hirabayashitaro	Stskeeps: So probably in the future there will be many application that will be "approved" and distributed by some unified service, isn't it?	22:43
javispedro	sivang: still mostly a twitter non-user, sivang	22:44
sivang	javispedro: so was I a minute a go	22:44
Stskeeps	hirabayashitaro: http://wiki.meego.com/Quality/Compliance	22:44
sivang	javispedro: it is quite confusing what's going there, I don't like twitter so much	22:44
sivang	javispedro: you know for a vi person...:-p	22:44
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gabrbedd	sivang: Are you saying that twitter now has a vim interface?	22:46
gabrbedd	:-p	22:46
javispedro	sivang: but it is on short term TODO list to try it =)	22:48
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sivang	gabrbedd: I wish! so is meego wiki	22:53
sivang	gabrbedd: and facebook :)	22:53
sivang	javispedro: yep, I figured Stskeeps's call is a good time to retry it	22:53
sivang	javispedro: it is a problem when you become too much filled with Python Zen. (explicity is better than implicit)	22:54
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tarantism_	I'm trying to dual boot my N900 but it's failing with unable to find "boot.scr" - i'm following these instructions: http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Install/Dual_Boot	22:57
Stskeeps	tarantism_: ignore the boot.scr thing, it's uImage it needs to look after	22:57
Stskeeps	if you dont have uImage on partition 3, you're dong something wrong	22:57
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tarantism_	stskeeps: ok. Didn't see anything about uImage. I'll have a look for that.	22:58
Venemo	so... any news about that shiny tablet UX?	22:59
Venemo	I've watched a few videos and it's quite impressive	22:59
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Stskeeps	grab it and try it out	22:59
Stskeeps	:P	22:59
Venemo	Stskeeps: where to grab it?	23:00
hirabayashitaro	Stskeeps: I read the specification, but I still have some boubts. But I suppose that the problem is that I'm not very well aware of how this kind of things works.	23:00
Stskeeps	Venemo: http://intel.ly/gq8OTA	23:01
Stskeeps	hirabayashitaro: takes some time to get around it all, yeah	23:01
Venemo	thanks Stskeeps	23:01
hirabayashitaro	Stskeeps: Something that I don't get is: 1_There will be something like a repository for supported packages?	23:02
hirabayashitaro	2_There will be some site providing applications like the one for maemo?	23:02
Venemo	Stskeeps: any builds for ARM?	23:02
Venemo	hirabayashitaro: yes. AppUp store for paid apps and community OBS for community apps	23:03
Stskeeps	Venemo: no, it's not contributed to meego yet	23:03
Venemo	Stskeeps: :(	23:03
gabrbedd	hirabayashitaro: #1 http://repo.meego.com/	23:06
gabrbedd	hirabayashitaro: #2 http://www.appup.com/applications/index	23:06
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gabrbedd	Stskeeps, Venemo: MeeGo support for AppUp is definately planned.	23:07
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Venemo	gabrbedd: yes, that's what I said too :)	23:08
gabrbedd	Bah! I though Stskeeps was responding to your AppUp comment... sorry.	23:08
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hirabayashitaro	Thanks. It's kinda clearer now	23:09
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* jausmus sighs at uninformed media coverage of tablet... :(		23:15
Stskeeps	open development is har	23:15
Stskeeps	d	23:15
jausmus	:)	23:16
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TSCHAKeee	yeah, ppl just don't understand	23:16
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Stskeeps	i think it's great, personally, can see a lot of potential in it, but it really needs to be in meego.com in order to not confuse people and to raise the motivation to base on top of meego :P	23:17
Stskeeps	but that's not something you (jausmus) decides :P	23:17
jausmus	very true :)	23:17
Stskeeps	but hopefully we'll see more about this in the short term once dust settles	23:17
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jausmus	in the meantime, if you see anyone repeating what one review said about not being able to remove/reorder the panels, kindly point them in my direction so I can clear up the confusion? :)	23:18
tarantism_	Stskeeps: I'm doing something dumb but can't see it. I format the card using sudo mkfs.ext2 -L Meego /dev/mmcblk0p1 then write the image using sudo dd bs=4096 if=meego-handset-armv7l-n900-final-mod-1.1.0.0.20101101.3-mmcblk0p.raw of=/dev/mmcblk0p1	23:18
Stskeeps	jausmus: you tap the button to turn them around and then manage panels, right	23:18
Stskeeps	tarantism_: drop the p1	23:18
TSCHAKeee	all the stuff in appUp is for Windows 7	23:18
tarantism_	f*** me that was quick	23:19
Stskeeps	my personal worry is that we'll ship reference UX'es for 1.2 that suck, really :)	23:19
jausmus	Stskeeps: for hiding the panel, it's right on the back of the panel - "Hide panel" - for moving, you just grab the "dot grid" icon on the top right of the panel, drag and drop (on the front of the panel)	23:20
Stskeeps	jausmus: :nod:	23:20
hirabayashitaro	Last question before going back to my study for tomorrow's exam: I opened an enhancement proposal for a feature about contacts in meego handset. If it will meant to be, It will be part of meego "core" or part of the external contacts managing application?	23:20
GAN900	Stskeeps, UI sells these days.	23:20
GAN900	iOS set the bar particularly high.	23:20
Stskeeps	GAN900: yes, which is also why a horrible reference UX will make people not want to base on meego :P	23:21
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Stskeeps	hirabayashitaro: you should aim for "core" feature, as to make it work on all contacts apps	23:21
TSCHAKeee	our UI sucks so badly, I am having to rethink and rewrite the whole damned thing	23:21
TSCHAKeee	(our being LinuxMCE)	23:21
GAN900	Stskeeps, the tablet UX demo isn't particularly encouraging.	23:21
GAN900	TSCHAKeee, I agree. g	23:21
Stskeeps	GAN900: ok, maybe it's just that i understand what it represents in terms of code and simplicity of actually getting to that UI	23:22
TSCHAKeee	GAN900: I didn't write the damned thing. I'm just the one who has taken on the task of reinventing it.	23:22
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GAN900	TSCHAKeee, I'm sorry. :P	23:22
Stskeeps	GAN900: and how to build a product on top of it	23:22
jausmus	GAN900: do you have particular concerns about the UI?	23:22
TSCHAKeee	I do like the fact that the UI felt smooth on my pinetrail netbook	23:23
TSCHAKeee	the only exception was inside the web browser	23:23
sivang	jausmus: where?	23:23
GAN900	jausmus, I have concerns about how it's going to be received by the OEMs, journalists and consumers who are going to play a big part in how much buy-in the platform gets.	23:23
hirabayashitaro	Ops, It was not last... But this is. where is the place for feature suggest? I used bug system, but I suppose I did it wrong	23:23
hirabayashitaro	*suggestions	23:23
TSCHAKeee	GAN900: you're not..really..answering his question.	23:23
jausmus	:)	23:24
TSCHAKeee	you've deflected an opinion	23:24
Stskeeps	hirabayashitaro: bug system, features	23:24
TSCHAKeee	with a percieved opinion	23:24
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TSCHAKeee	erm answered, i mean	23:24
GAN900	TSCHAKeee, don't have time to write up a blow-by-blow of where I think it needs improvement.	23:25
jausmus	If there's something you don't like - let us know - I obviously can't guarantee any action on it, but you won't effect any change without at least saying what you want to change! :)	23:25
TSCHAKeee	GAN900: do you have time to do ANYTHING besides talk shit? ;)	23:25
GAN900	Just generally airing my agreement with Stskeeps that I think it's important.	23:25
GAN900	TSCHAKeee, sadly, no. :(	23:25
Stskeeps	GAN900: i'll quote you on that!	23:25
Stskeeps	:P	23:26
GAN900	Unless you count my small contributions to mwkn	23:26
GAN900	Which might be more shit.	23:26
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hirabayashitaro	Stskeeps: so I did the right procedure opening a bug marked as enhancement, right?	23:27
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Stskeeps	hirabayashitaro: sortof, if it was in the Core OS Features component	23:28
hirabayashitaro	It was not, can I move it?	23:29
Stskeeps	yeah	23:29
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hirabayashitaro	Stskeeps: The problem is that there is no cantacts section in Core OS (maybe because cantacts are, as far as I know, managed by differend systemsdon netbood and handset)	23:33
Stskeeps	hirabayashitaro: there's contacts middleware i think	23:34
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Stskeeps	yeah, netbook is always a bit of wtf..	23:34
hirabayashitaro	Stskeeps: Nope, only voip e IM	23:35
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Stskeeps	hirabayashitaro: hmm.	23:35
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Venemo	hirabayashitaro: what's a 'cantact'?	23:37
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hirabayashitaro	Venemo: Is a 'contact'	23:38
Venemo	ok, sorry	23:38
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hirabayashitaro	Venemo: and is a typo :D	23:39
Venemo	np	23:39
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hirabayashitaro	must reboot	23:41
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tarantism_	Stskeeps: Thanks - that fixed it - I know that I'm running a really old image but why is it _so_ slow?	23:46
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tarantism_	i'd really like to understand what it's doing with its half billion ops per second	23:50
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CosmoHill	sounds like one hell of an IRC channnel	23:50
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lcuk	tarantism_, the usual, thinking about its hair and makeup, what to have for tea, whether the cute app in the corner saw it looking, shining screen, polishing buttons.	23:51
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CosmoHill	lcuk: I have one working node atm :o	23:51
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tarantism_	lcuk: this has perplexed me for years	23:51
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lcuk	tarantism_, me too, thats why I resolved to avoid it where possible	23:52
tarantism_	I suspect that alot of it could be eliminated: especially the thinking about whether to have tea - just have tea!!	23:52
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lcuk	tarantism_, lol	23:53
lcuk	CosmoHill, :D you are awesome, how easy now is it to add more?	23:53
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CosmoHill	I'm gonna do some quick testing and I need to sort out the IPs	23:58
CosmoHill	some failed and never got an IP	23:58
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CosmoHill	so node 1 is 0.0.0.1 node 2 is 0.0.0.2 node 3 is 0.0.0.4 etc	23:58
CosmoHill	swap 3 and 4 around	23:59
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