IRC log of #meego for Sunday, 2011-01-16

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ng__hello00:08
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wazdhello again :)00:59
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Lopiare there any devs around?02:35
CosmoHillmaybe02:36
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LopiI'm from the iDroid and iX Project. iDroid is Android on Apple's iDevices. iX is my project which aims to provide an X11 based GNU/Linux distribution for Apple's iDevices. I decided to see if I could boot meego for fun. Meego seemed to be booting properly, but I got stuck at a black screen. Are there any log files I can check to see what happened during boot?02:40
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CosmoHillsounds like the graphics02:41
LopiI used the n8x0 rootfs as my device, iPhone3G, is armv602:42
CosmoHillhave you tried booting into run level 3?02:42
LopiNo, I'll try that. Is Meego a lot like a standard linux distro?02:42
LopiAll I have is framebuffer, so that could be the problem. No 3D acceleration.02:43
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sivancan anybody know how to reverse the virutak keyboard setting up on the ideapad?02:44
sivanI followed this:02:44
sivanhttp://blog.neteril.org/2010/11/19/turning-your-meego-lenovo-s10-3t-into-a-real-slate/02:45
sivanbut the VKB is driving me nuts02:45
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CosmoHillLopi: it's between 1am and 3am for europe where nokia is so it might be kinda hard to find a developer02:47
sivanso I removed meegotouch-inputmethodframework02:49
sivanlet's see what happenbes02:49
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LopiCosmoHill: Okay, I'll play around tonight and see if I can get in touch with a dev tomorrow.02:49
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LopiCosmoHill: Is run level 3 console only in meego?02:59
CosmoHillyes02:59
CosmoHillif that works it implies it's the drivers02:59
CosmoHillbut not owning a n900 i'm not the best person to comment03:00
Lopistrange, I changed init level in /etc/inittab/ but still booting to a black screen ;p03:00
LopiI probably should have run some tests in qemu first03:01
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CosmoHillcouldn't of hurt03:07
Lopiyeah, it'll boot to console in qemu. changes to inittab didn't save most likely03:08
sjokkiscouldn't have hurt03:08
CosmoHillit's 1am03:09
sjokkisit's actually 2am03:09
CosmoHillnight night03:09
CosmoHillsjokkis: where you are it may be03:09
CosmoHillif you want to be perdantic it's 1:09am03:09
berndhsnot for long03:10
CosmoHilllets assume for up to 59 seconds03:10
sjokkisit's already 2:10am really03:10
berndhsnight cosmo03:10
CosmoHill.o/03:10
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brainyHow can I change my ID for Meego's forum?04:22
brainyanyone?04:23
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berndhsdeny everything and sign up again04:25
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Termanamorning04:48
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Guest55189WHATS UP BABIES04:51
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Guest55189what is meego?04:51
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Stskeepsmorn lbt12:07
lbtmorning ....12:07
lbtmy desktop crashed :(12:08
Stskeeps:(12:08
Stskeepsi'm fighting with my joggler12:08
lbtI spent last night fighting with a 10m HDMI/DVI cable ... v. annoying12:10
lbtwhat insane bunch of cretins makes a video protocol that won't work with cables > a few metres?12:10
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Stskeepspeople who want to go into wireless displays? ;)12:12
Bostiklbt: people who don't understand the concept of "separate media centre" ?12:17
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lbtit is rather astounding though....12:18
lbtgot one of these for xmas : http://www.ebuyer.com/product/22575412:18
lbtis Nvidia ION  supported by MeeGo... ;)12:19
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lbtoh, Stskeeps ... we have an irc VM12:20
Stskeepslbt: if you recompile xorg with XINERAMA12:20
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Stskeepslbt: and nice, what do you need me to provide besides my soul to get access?12:26
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lbta newly generated, meego-only, passphrase protected, ssh key12:27
Stskeepsok, might have to be later today (going to the parents in law)12:28
lbtit was on my list for today but adam beat me to it last night12:28
lbtyeah - I doubt it has any kind of access yet12:28
lbtit only needs to reach out doesn't it? no inbound connections?12:28
lbt(so NAT is OK)12:28
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lardmanlbt: is that little PC fanless?12:30
lbtnot quite... but it's damned quiet ... I think the fan is off most of the time. PSU is an external brick12:31
lardmanah cool12:31
lardmanI was umming and arring about building a media centre12:31
lardmanthough in that case I'd need usb tuners12:31
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lardmanwhich would probablty have a better chance of being supported under Linux though12:32
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lbthttp://netbooked.net/netbook-reviews/review/acer-aspire-revo-review/12:32
lbthas some internal piccies12:32
lardmanthanks12:32
lbthappened to see it last night when looking for hdmi problem/solutions12:32
lbt(eventually I went to sainsburys, bought a short hdmi cable and got a binary dump of the EDID - which was enough to force it into the right mode)12:33
lardmanhmm, I wish that would work for one of my desktop monitors12:33
lardmanis uninterested even with a binary EDID in xorg.conf12:34
lbtew12:34
lbtI use it as a myth frontend12:34
lbthave the backend + tuners elsewhere12:35
lardmanI was wondering if it was my DVI to VGA connector, though the driver seems to think it has an HDMI port, so perhaps it's all a bit wrong12:35
lardmanlbt: ah ok12:35
lbtit's a bit physically small to use as a backend for a decent system it'd sprout wires12:36
dm8tbrlbt: the IRC VM, is that something meego official? also for bots?12:36
lbtdm8tbr: yes12:36
lardmanlbt: yeah that was my worry12:36
dm8tbrcan I get an account for meegobot then? :) (I can create an key in a few minutes if necessary)12:37
Stskeepsdm8tbr: let's see if we can integrate up the work12:37
Stskeepsthere's a couple of bots that'd be nice to merge, so12:37
lbtdm8tbr: we've not got a policy for accounts yet - probably have Stskeeps as the maintainer for that system12:37
dm8tbrStskeeps: sure12:38
Stskeepsyou don't happen to know if there's a bugzilla plugin for supybot?12:39
dm8tbrno idea12:39
dm8tbralso there's more bugzilla functionality than bug queries12:40
dm8tbryou can subscribe  a mozbot to bugmail and it will notify of bug changes in designated channels12:40
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lcuklbt, meego booted to a degree on my packard bell allinone multitouch whilst you were gone! :P13:16
lbtooh13:17
lbtpics?13:17
lcukhttp://liqbase.net/meego.on.packard.bell.onetwo.20110114_001.jpg13:17
lcukhandset needs to adapt to x11 screen resolution13:17
lbt:)13:17
lcukfor any machine its on13:18
lcukbug 1245513:18
MeeGoBotBug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=12455 nor, Undecided, ---, jesse.barnes, NEW, Displayed UI does not adapt to available screen resolution13:18
lcukcos those black borders have appeared on any machine13:18
lcukit also happily boots on my work x200s too13:18
* lcuk ponders13:19
lcukbrb13:19
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Stskeepslcuk: http://pastie.org/146624613:23
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lcukStskeeps, but when do you apply that?13:35
Stskeepslcuk: well, at image creation time13:35
lcukand what happens if I boot meego onto a system where I can plug a monitor into (instead of a single fixed monitor)13:35
Stskeepsgot a point there13:35
lcukStskeeps, this same usb key works on ideapad, pb.onetwo, x200s etc13:36
lcuk"works"13:36
Stskeepswell, ask people to make resolution autodetect for meegotouch ;)13:36
lcuki just went to try it onthe x41 and the amd machine downstairs13:36
lcukthats what the bug is for!13:36
Stskeepsgood13:37
Stskeepsjust saying ther's a temp solution :P13:37
lcukyeah we used similar with the ideapad13:37
lcukhttp://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_Desktop/Changing_Desktops#Get_correct_resolution_on_IdeaPad13:37
lcuktheres multiple ways to do it13:38
lcukAMD machine ominously suggests in a DOS console line during boot that the cpu opcodes are not supported, not unexpected really13:39
lcukits an AMD dualcore 64b13:39
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lcukand the x41 is failing to boot its own OS let alone meego13:39
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sivangmorning13:51
Venemo_N900morning13:52
sivangI had to remove meegotouch-* to have the VKB removed on the ideapad, how do I enable non touch UI as came with the ideapad the first place?13:53
Stskeepsmorn13:53
lcuksivang, hrm?  see the changing desktops page for some info, but depends what you installed since you got it13:58
lcukin the conf we were given keys with netbook image on13:58
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sivanglcuk: yes, I am not so conversant with the rpm tools, so it is not as easy as with Ubuntu. Also, modifications to the configuration files seem to go ignored14:03
sivanglcuk: to sum it up, the desktop/netbook experience on the ideapad as per 1.1 is very poor in my taste. I expected just the very basics to be there.14:04
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sivangeven how it came stock, that is.14:04
Stskeepswelcome to the personality split between being end-user and platform..14:07
sivangexactly14:09
sivangat least we could perhaps market it as a platform only?14:09
sivangat least until it gets an end-user product14:09
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Stskeepsan old issue really :) it surprises me noone has taken meego core and start to put the pieces together for something full and usable :P14:11
Stskeepsit is fairly easy to customize14:11
sivangStskeeps: Well, not if you want usable touch ui14:12
sivangStskeeps: as explained nicely by the last commenter on the window resize non boog14:12
lcuksivang, which bug14:13
sivanglcuk: it would be close to impossible for me to find it right now (thanks to bugzilla) try to google for "hard to resize windows" or something14:15
sivangas I only have 2 minutes before I need to run14:15
sivangcheers for now, be back later14:15
lcuksivang, I have an alternative resize bug too14:15
lcukwhich is related to browser window opening at 1 pixel in from the edges14:15
lcukbut hard to resize is a different issue on touch14:15
Stskeepstouchpad + touch screen is a horrid mix, imho14:16
lcukbug 1044414:16
MeeGoBotBug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10444 nor, Undecided, ---, ningxin.hu, NEW, Browser scrolling not possible when mouse at screen borders14:16
Stskeepsit is very difficult to make good UIs for14:16
lcukthe touchpad is on its own reasonable14:16
lcukespecially when you want to scroll a text file whilst coding14:16
Stskeepsyes, but then we're back at WIMP14:16
Stskeepsa touch ui is different14:16
lcukof course, the ideapad is dualmode14:17
Stskeepsright, and UI should follow that14:17
lcuksivang, how should border/edge resizing work?  (I used to allow whole window size to do resizing relative to corner so you dont have to aim for the tiny edge14:18
lcukbut it requires enabling resizing in the first place for some things14:18
lcukbut I am watching Magnum P.I dvd14:19
* lcuk bbl14:19
lcukmy moustache is taking notes.14:19
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* lardman wonders if lcuk's Ferrari and Hughes 500 were also taking notes?15:34
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lcuklardman, :D of course.  totally cool helicopter!15:37
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* lcuk can see lardman is a fan also.15:37
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lcuklardman, the yachts aren't bad either, one of my mates is a captain in the Maldives atm15:44
lcuknoted because its raining in Manchester atm, lucky sob15:44
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vgraderaining in Manchester, now that is a surprise15:51
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testorhi18:20
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jonnorsivang: disable launch of meegotouch-im-uiserver to disable the VKB18:29
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arfollvgrade, have you got a .ks to build a meego image for the joggler with GL/GLes? I've noticed you have an emgd driver in home:vgrade18:35
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Stskeepsarfoll: i'm not 100% sure they're stable18:42
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arfollStskeeps, thanks been chatting to vgrade18:45
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wazdHello everyone19:05
Stskeepslo wazd19:05
wazdStskeeps: o/19:05
wazdStskeeps: good luck @ fosdem :)19:06
Stskeepsthanks19:06
wazdStskeeps: but considering your outstanding work in Dublin - you won't need it :)19:07
Stskeepsi'll have my wife along, so that ups the nervousity ;)19:07
wazdStskeeps: ooh :)19:07
wazdStskeeps: I'm still trying to track that weird handset bug19:08
Stskeepswhich one?19:09
wazdStskeeps: n900 can't recognize stock handset19:09
wazdStskeeps: just don't see it19:09
Stskeepsheadset, you mean19:10
wazdOoops, sprry :)19:10
wazdSorry, about -25 outside :)19:10
andre__uh, Stskeeps as Fosdem? we should have a beer then :)19:10
dm8tbrandre__: if you arrive friday it will be more than one ;)19:11
Stskeepsandre__: yeah, will be having a talk in embedded devroom19:11
andre__i'll arrive friday evening19:11
andre__cool19:11
Stskeeps18:30ish here at airport19:12
andre__18:55 here19:13
andre__yay :)19:13
dm8tbrmake your flight arrive earlier and you'll catch the train with us :)19:13
andre__haha19:13
andre__train? hmm, last time I took a bus19:14
dm8tbrthe train connection is quite comfortable and drops you off slightly north of city centre19:14
dm8tbrmost hotels _and_ the delirium bar are just minutes from there19:16
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lardman|homelcuk: finished the Magnum marathon?19:31
lardman|homewhen were you planning the London (or wherever) meet? I need to juggle my diary19:31
lcukonly watched 4 eps so far.19:31
CosmoHillthere is a cambridge meet19:31
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lcuklardman|home, no on both counts.  the london meet was just observation that it would be easier for more people to get to London19:38
lardman|homenp, let me know what the plan is once one is decided19:38
lcukok19:39
lardman|homeand how's the moustache, Ferrari and helicopter?19:39
lcuk:D19:40
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Stskeepsjavispedro: http://www.engadget.com/2011/01/16/hp-promises-webos-netbooks-to-go-along-with-smartphones-and-slat/20:15
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javispedrowell, makes sense.20:16
Stskeepswell, makes me wonder about the qt stuff in webos :P20:17
javispedroI think they're using it as a helper library only20:17
javispedroat least, so far.20:17
Stskeeps:nod:20:18
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Stephen256hello.20:21
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Stephen256Any one here?20:25
Stskeepshhi20:26
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Stephen256Hi.20:26
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Stephen256I have been thinking about Meego, as I am Gentoo user.20:29
Raimhow is that related?20:30
w00t_lbt: where would you like bugs for build.pub.m.c filed? :)20:31
Stephen256Both platforms are related by Linux kernel and largely by the infrastructure of the software stack.20:31
RaimStephen256: I would say that applies to any Linux distro :)20:32
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Stephen256Yes.  As a Gentoo user I like a home brewed system.  I am wondering about that with regard to Megoo.20:36
StskeepsStephen256: you can pretty much put meego together in funny configurations20:36
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Stskeepsit's a package based system though20:36
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Stephen256Is that a problem?20:39
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Stephen256The package based system I mean.20:40
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thiago_homeyou tell us20:44
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Stskeepsas in it's not compile everything from scratch ;)20:45
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Stephen256Okay, I'll tell you what I do know.20:45
Stephen256In gentoo for example there are graphics card drivers from Nvidia and ATI which are closed source binaries that are installed as kernel modules.20:46
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Stephen256As dev you can build binary packages for example Open Office, Firefox, Thunderbird, Flash and others.20:48
Stephen256As a user I can only speak from my own experience, with regards to software management through the gentoo Portage package management program.20:49
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Stephen256Btw, Fiirefox and Thunderbird as they are open source also ship in source code forms.20:50
Venemo_N900Stephen256: so what's your question?20:50
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Stephen256Before I answer that one, I'll warn you that I haven't thought this out as well as I thought I had... for that I apologise.  In short, could a user install a KDE or Gnome desktop on to a Meego device.  Admittedly, I have a home brew bias hence the gentoo slant.20:55
mrdongle_why not just use those distros then20:56
mrdongle_maybe you don't know why you are here :)20:57
Stephen256I'm not sure about driver support, for example if your target platform is a new GSM enabled Tablet device.20:57
Stephen256I never know why I'm here.20:57
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Stephen256Or for that fact drivers for a capacitive touch screen.20:58
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Stephen256It is my impression that Meego is targeting more than just embedded mobile devices, so from a selfish point of view I'd like to see my embedded device sharing the same code base/ design philosophy as my desktop.21:01
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Venemo_N900Stephen256: it's just a matter of someone porting them21:12
Venemo_N900Stephen256: the reason for their inavailability is that gnome or kde is not designed for touchscreen devices21:14
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Venemo_N900Stephen256: but, since they are free and open source, you could dl and build them21:14
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Stephen256Good points all of them, to do that say on a netbook, first I'd need one of the supported hardware platforms.21:17
wmaroneooh!21:18
wmaronexterm!21:18
Stephen256s/that/dl and build them.21:18
Venemo_N900Stephen256: MeeGo and its SDK are available for non-netbook devices21:18
wmaroneis there a way to switch between windows in X without an x server?21:18
wmaroneand no mouse21:18
Venemo_N900wmarone: without an x server there are no x windows either21:19
wmaroneerr21:19
wmaronemy bad21:19
wmaroneI mean, window manager21:19
Venemo_N900wmarone: umm... I don't think so.21:20
wmarone:/ that's what I'm thinking21:20
wmaronewell, meego booted at least :)21:20
Venemo_N900wmarone: without a window manager, there's nothing to react to any input events21:20
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Stephen256try alt-tab21:21
Venemo_N900wmarone: you could try to boot to a terminal and install a window manager21:21
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wmaroneif I'm going to do that, I'll dig around to get mic2 working and just create an image of handset21:23
wmaronethough I'll have to install fedora or somesuch to use the 0.24 version like vgrade said21:23
Venemo_N900wmarone: what device are you installing it to?21:23
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wmaroneviewsonic gtablet (tegra 2, requires hardfp build)21:24
Venemo_N900mhm21:25
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SaziusAnyone know how to get anti-aliased fonts in Qt apps in MeeGo netbook? Any package I'm missing?21:27
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vgradewmarone, \o/21:56
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vgradewelcome to the tegra 2 team21:56
wmaroneheh21:57
CosmoHillooo21:57
wmaronenow I need to get fedora 13 installed so I can use a dev version of mic221:58
lbtw00t_: bugs.meego.com ... there is a community build area there21:58
w00t_lbt: k21:58
alteregowmarone: works fine for me under f1421:58
wmaronewell21:58
wmaroneI have no fedora installs whatsoever21:58
wmaroneso I'm grabbing what I have handy21:58
alteregom'hmm21:58
alteregoCool21:58
w00t_lbt: executive summary: there appears to be no (non-'advanced' tab) way to target meego:current:core21:59
vgradew00t_, that one stumped me for a while21:59
lbtw00t_: we may need to review the project structures21:59
vgradethere is a dialog box which says will be automatcally populated22:00
vgradethis means it will be populated after you start typing into it22:01
Jaffalbt: had a chance to catch up with the COBS/Extras/Surrounds thread?22:01
lbtJaffa: hey.... no ... but I am writing some stuff22:02
Stephen256I'm going to wave and thank you for your time.  I am looking forward to seeing Meego in handset devices and other places.  All the best.22:02
Stephen256.quit Bye.22:02
Stephen256Dratt that wasn't supposed to go like that.  Bye.22:03
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vgradew00t_, or have I misunderstood your problem22:04
w00t_vgrade: sort of, I think - my point is that it should be easier to set up builds against current meego without having to do that22:05
vgradew00t_, so meego:current:core should be part of the list of default reps and not required the advanced tab22:07
w00t_right22:07
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Jaffalbt: http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-community/2010-December/003021.html and then crosses into the Jan archives: http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-community/2011-January/003043.html22:08
lbtyeah... I'm using that and preparing some content and scope which I'll put here : http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Office/Task_Forces22:09
lbtalso see my rant to ... someone... just before xmas22:09
Stskeepssabotage / shane?22:09
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lbtshane22:11
lbtyes22:11
Jaffalbt: indeed, that's what prompted me to think about it in more detail - and the excellent points raised in your rant.22:17
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Jaffalbt: My short version - openness: good; leadership & empowerment to make decisions: needed.22:17
Jaffalbt: That's why I'm not sure on qgil's "under the CO" angle.22:18
Jaffalbt: But I should get back to MWKN editing.22:18
lbtwhen's the deadline?22:18
Jaffalbt: For MWKN? 6am UTC tomorrow morning. Ish.22:18
JaffaUsually very "ish" recently22:18
lbthehe ... OK22:18
* lbt types faster22:18
JaffaSomething good for the frontpage would be nice ;-)22:18
alterego"Alterego finds matd"22:20
Venemo_N900Jaffa: have you seen my little puzzle master app?22:21
JaffaVenemo_N900: No, missed that. URL?22:22
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Venemo_N900Jaffa: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=6713922:23
Venemo_N900Jaffa: installable from -devel atm22:24
JaffaVenemo_N900: ta22:24
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Venemo_N900Jaffa: try it. I'm curious about your opinion :)22:25
JaffaVenemo_N900: It's obviously an evil trojan ;-)22:25
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Venemo_N900Jaffa: it should be compilable for meego and other distros, but it has a surprise when ran on the N90022:26
GAN900Jaffa, I'll do better tonight. Promise! ;)22:26
Venemo_N900Jaffa: you should have seen DocScrutinizer's reaction22:26
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root_is meego better or faster than maemo 5 on the nokia n900? is the repository bigger? does it contain many bugs in the most common programs like apps for calling, sms, mms, browser and terminal? can I use apt-get?22:29
jonnorroot_: Meego 1.1 Handset can be considered a developer preview22:30
Jaffaroot_: No & no. Definitely not. Almost certainly. No, it's RPM based; use 'yum'22:30
Venemo_N900root_: not yet.22:30
Jaffajonnor: Short version - what jonnor said.22:30
Venemo_N900Jaffa: meego doesn't use yum22:31
JaffaVenemo_N900: Oh, it's zypper isn't it.22:31
root_ok, thanks people :)22:31
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Venemo_N900Jaffa: yeah, I think so22:32
Venemo_N900Jaffa: reason was yum being written in python22:32
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lupine_85well, zypper has that magical new dependency resolution stuff too23:03
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Venemo_N900lupine_85:23:37
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CosmoHillhey sofar23:45
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CosmoHillI just thought, I must be the only guy in the channel using a non-x86 computer23:57
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