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| DawnFoster | sabotage: I'm thinking that they are both most likely asleep :) | 00:04 |
|---|---|---|
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| * alterego tries to build a core | 00:05 | |
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| sabotage | DawnFoster: nod, but they also (I'm hoping) check the backlog ;) | 00:07 |
| DawnFoster | sabotage: I have no doubt that they'll see the pings when they wake up (just like I do with stuff from them while I'm sleeping) :) | 00:08 |
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| alterego | Great, can't even build a core madde sysroot | 00:15 |
| alterego | time for some debugging I guess .. | 00:16 |
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| alterego | Wow, the mic log is really rubbish .. | 00:24 |
| alterego | It misses all of the stderr output. | 00:24 |
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| dm8tbr | file-a-bug? :) | 00:26 |
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| alterego | I'm more concerned as to why I can't build a madde sysroot :/ | 00:27 |
| alterego | Even in verbose the exception generated seems pointless. | 00:27 |
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| alterego | This is with -verbose: http://www.pastie.org/1374461 | 00:29 |
| alterego | Trying to build a core madde sysroot | 00:29 |
| alterego | Using daily. | 00:30 |
| alterego | Do you, per chance, want to see if you can build one dm8tbr ? :) | 00:31 |
| dm8tbr | alterego: I'm about to fall asleep. you could poke me tomorrow morning :) | 00:31 |
| alterego | Cool, | 00:31 |
| alterego | Have a good night :) | 00:31 |
| csgeek | I tried meego on a laptop a while ago.... and at the time there were issues with the i7 procs.. has that been fixed? | 00:32 |
| thiago_home | i7 should never have issues | 00:33 |
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| CosmoHill | csgeek: what graphics card do you havve? | 00:34 |
| csgeek | nvidia something or other.. I forget the exact model | 00:35 |
| thiago_home | that is the issue | 00:35 |
| thiago_home | not your CPU, it's your GPU | 00:35 |
| CosmoHill | that would be your problem | 00:35 |
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| csgeek | GeoForce 320M according to nvidia-settings | 00:36 |
| CosmoHill | it's the nvidia part that is the problem | 00:37 |
| csgeek | meego doesn't support nvidia drivers? | 00:37 |
| thiago_home | the other way around | 00:37 |
| CosmoHill | nope, not yet | 00:37 |
| thiago_home | nvidia drivers don't support the GL requirements that MeeGo has | 00:37 |
| CosmoHill | Nvidia also don't plan to support wayland | 00:37 |
| csgeek | hmmm... so ATI/Intel is okay though? | 00:37 |
| thiago_home | no | 00:37 |
| thiago_home | just Intel | 00:37 |
| CosmoHill | Intel (non GMA500) | 00:38 |
| CosmoHill | http://cross-lfs.org/~cosmo/meego/faq.txt | 00:39 |
| csgeek | hmmm.. that's too bad.. I was hoping it'd be more universal... | 00:39 |
| lcuk | CosmoHill, :) | 00:39 |
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| CosmoHill | lcuk: I have to get some things right :) | 00:42 |
| alterego | lcuk: do you have mic setup on your system? | 00:42 |
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| alterego | Error Message: "IOError: [Errno 9] Bad file descriptor" | 00:48 |
| alterego | Cause: mic-image-creator does not work on Debian | 00:48 |
| alterego | Fix: Use Ubuntu | 00:48 |
| alterego | That makes me angry | 00:49 |
| alterego | Would be nice to have a bit more information rather than "does not work on Debian" because I'm bloody using ubuntu :/ | 00:49 |
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| berndhs | alterego: ha I caught one, an ubuntu user :) | 00:53 |
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| berndhs | alterego: tell me, how do I get my launchpad ppa to accept packages for a different "series" :) | 00:53 |
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| alterego | berndhs: not sure what you mean :P | 00:58 |
| alterego | berndhs: what are you actually trying to do? | 00:59 |
| berndhs | i make soem debs and put them in a launchpad.net repo, called a "PPA" | 00:59 |
| berndhs | I have some packages for lucid | 00:59 |
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| berndhs | and now truying to put them there for maverick | 00:59 |
| berndhs | and it wont let me | 00:59 |
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| berndhs | i asked in #ubuntu, and they just ignore me over there | 01:00 |
| julienf | evening | 01:01 |
| alterego | berndhs: sorry, not got any experience with personal repos on ubuntu, well, except using them :) | 01:03 |
| berndhs | alterego: that's all right | 01:03 |
| berndhs | I wish they had stats on them, so I could tell if anyone uses mine | 01:04 |
| alterego | Heh | 01:04 |
| alterego | Well, used the latest mic out of gitorious, completely different error :D | 01:05 |
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| ali1234 | berndhs: try asking in #ubuntu-motu instead of the generic noob-help channel... | 01:27 |
| alterego | Hopefully I have a working sysroot now, but pressing CTRL+C before it had the opportunity to die and cleanup :) | 01:27 |
| ali1234 | or maybe #launchpad | 01:27 |
| CosmoHill | if you're building rpms you can tell rpmbuild to not clean up afterwards | 01:27 |
| berndhs | ali1234: thanks | 01:30 |
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| sivang | what is actually an FEA? | 02:02 |
| sivang | e.g. the exact acronym | 02:02 |
| andyross | FEAture | 02:02 |
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| sivang | andrei1089: ? | 02:03 |
| sivang | err | 02:03 |
| sivang | andyross: you sure? | 02:03 |
| sivang | not Feature Enhancement Addition? | 02:03 |
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| andyross | Fragile Elephant Appendage? No idea. I thought you were just asking what it meant, but you apparently already knew. :) | 02:05 |
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| CosmoHill | hey auke | 02:09 |
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| sivang | andyross: Well, I am not sure this is the acronym, I want to make sure :) | 02:12 |
| sivang | andyross: thanks for the suggestion anyhoo | 02:12 |
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| auke | hi folks | 02:17 |
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| sivang | hey auke | 02:33 |
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| CosmoHill | by | 02:39 |
| CosmoHill | bye | 02:39 |
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| Termana | morning | 04:26 |
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| harryhe | hi, guys, who knows how use rsync behind a http proxy? | 04:42 |
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| harryhe | who knows how use rsync behind a http proxy? | 04:51 |
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| Termana | harryhe, export http_proxy=http://proxy.example.com:8080; export RSYNC_PROXY=proxy.example.com:8080 | 05:04 |
| Termana | and then rsync | 05:04 |
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| Jay_BEE | howdy | 05:15 |
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| harryhe | Thanks very much | 05:22 |
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| csgeek | hello all. | 05:35 |
| csgeek | is there a mailing list/irc channel about community events for meego? ... looking at hopefully trying to get a speaker | 05:36 |
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| abhijeet | what is happenin in meego channel | 07:04 |
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| Jartza_ | dunno | 07:06 |
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| Jartza_ | smoku is quitting because of excess flood... again and again and again... | 07:06 |
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| Termana | It's a party in my mouth and everyone's invited | 07:06 |
| Termana | Except smoku | 07:06 |
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| Jartza_ | those excess flood messages are flooding the channel excessively :( | 07:07 |
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| Termana | Stskeeps, ping | 07:07 |
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| Mikho | ban it already | 07:08 |
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| Jartza_ | how to ban an quit message? | 07:08 |
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| Termana | jeremiah_, X-Fade, DawnFoster, ping | 07:08 |
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| Mikho | no, the join message | 07:09 |
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| Jartza | lol, I don't see any join messages | 07:09 |
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| Mikho | yeah, it's a good idea to disable them | 07:09 |
| Mikho | the join messages are flooding the channel excessively too | 07:10 |
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| Jartza | I haven't disabled anything | 07:10 |
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| Jartza | I only get quit messages from smoku, constantly | 07:11 |
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| Jartza | and I'm wondering how can you quit without rejoining first :) | 07:11 |
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| Mikho | yes, you just don't get the join messages | 07:11 |
| Mikho | I do | 07:11 |
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| Jartza | strange | 07:12 |
| Termana | smoku, settle down tiger | 07:12 |
| Jartza | I get join messages from others | 07:12 |
| * Termana glues smoku to his seat | 07:12 | |
| Jartza | maybe there's some sync problems with servers? | 07:13 |
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| Termana | Stskeeps, jeremiah_, X-Fade, DawnFoster, unping situation averted | 07:15 |
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| dm8tbr | smoku uses a XMPP←→IRC gateway and that seems to run haywire at times | 07:19 |
| dm8tbr | he should just put an irssi-proxy in the loop, would solve that problem :) | 07:20 |
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| iekku | morning | 07:38 |
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| kaushik | what should I modify in a kickstart file to make an image for moorstown? | 07:46 |
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| gabrbedd | kaushik: The meego-handset-ia32-mtf images are using the moorsetown kernel. | 07:57 |
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| kaushik | I want it for netbook though | 07:58 |
| kaushik | I replaced kernel-netbook by kernel-mrst | 07:58 |
| kaushik | and added bootloader --timeout=2 --append="ro pci=noearly console=tty1 console=ttyS0 earlyprintk=mrst loglevel=8 s0ix_latency=160" | 07:59 |
| kaushik | what is @Moorestown support in meego-handset-ia32-mtf kickstart file | 08:00 |
| gabrbedd | kaushik: I don't understand what you're trying to do. Are you trying to run the netbook UX on mrst? | 08:00 |
| kaushik | yes I am trying to run netbook UX on mrst | 08:00 |
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| gabrbedd | kaushik: "@Moorestown Support" is defined here http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/releases/1.1/core/repos/ia32/packages/repodata/29ea6f99ce7a7dd3a78b1cac43d600ceef0efeb7f2c312bf0cec3df1e704459d-comps-1.1.xml and described as "all packages required to boot moorestown platform" | 08:04 |
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| kaushik | alright thanks | 08:07 |
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| hermes | #Andriod | 08:40 |
| Termana | hermes, I think you forgot the /join part on that ;) Or you spammed, but I'll assume the best in you and assume you didn't | 08:41 |
| hermes | Termana: I forgot the /join part | 08:42 |
| hermes | Pardon me folks | 08:42 |
| hermes | Termana: Now that I have got some attention (which I dint intend to have in this way). I was looking at stuff and reading about Meego and I was pretty intriguied by the idea especially by the interface | 08:44 |
| hermes | So can anyone tell me over here how can I contribute and be a part of MeeGo in some way | 08:44 |
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| Stskeeps | hermes: find a component, locate the source and follow http://meego.com/about/contribution-guidelines | 08:45 |
| Stskeeps | no paperwork involved | 08:46 |
| Stskeeps | http://wiki.meego.com/Contributing_to_MeeGo for the non-code contributions | 08:46 |
| hermes | Stskeeps: hmm, i will look it up | 08:46 |
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| hermes | Stskeeps: I think I would interested in code contributions to MeeGo | 08:47 |
| Stskeeps | lists.meego.com for mailing lists, http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo-Meeting_IRC_Schedule for technical meetings | 08:47 |
| * Jucato just watched/heard a talk given by another Nokia exec, (very) vaguely referring to a "new pattern" (of mobile user interface) that will come with "MeeGo in 2011" ... and left wondering ... "I thought they were working on MeeGo UX too?" | 08:49 | |
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| Stskeeps | Jucato: nokia's been fairly clear that handset ux isn't what they'll ship | 08:53 |
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| Jucato | Stskeeps: that's what I heard as well. in fact I also heard it's going to be proprietary (hello again Hildon!). I guess I still find it a bit sad because the reference UX's (specially handset) aren't even fully done yet (not to mention a missing tablet ux) and yet they seem to be already huddled behind close doors for their own ux. | 08:55 |
| Jucato | ah well. 2011 isn't far off. time to wait and see. gotta reformat the laptop first for Fedora 13 -_- | 08:56 |
| Stskeeps | Jucato: well, i don't know what to put into that the components are still getting developed from nokia's side | 08:56 |
| * Stskeeps doesn't actually know how things will look | 08:56 | |
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| * Jucato will just cross his fingers :) | 08:57 | |
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| Stskeeps | and handset ux isn't half bad.. i mean, i can make a kitchen appliance with it fairly eeasy | 08:58 |
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| Jucato | it isn't really. just needs polish to be usable. at least that's what I experienced in 1.1. and that's the unoptimized release :) | 09:00 |
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| Stskeeps | 1.1 n900 looks horrible cos of the drivers :) | 09:00 |
| Stskeeps | did you try out the 'demo' image? | 09:00 |
| Jucato | oh not yet | 09:00 |
| Stskeeps | ah, you should.. | 09:00 |
| Jucato | I still need to look for a better card | 09:00 |
| Stskeeps | it rocks your perception about what is a slow system and what's not | 09:00 |
| Jucato | link? same steps to get it installed? | 09:01 |
| Jucato | I was actually already satisfied that SMS and basic calling worked on 1.1 :) | 09:02 |
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| Jucato | and wifi/wlan I think ... | 09:02 |
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| Stskeeps | tablets-dev.nokia.com/meego-codedrop.php | 09:04 |
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| Jucato | thanks | 09:06 |
| Jucato | damn I still only have an 8GB class 4 card. need to buy two 4GB class 6 (one for NITdroid :P) | 09:07 |
| Stskeeps | i use class 4 eprsonally | 09:07 |
| Stskeeps | app launch is a bit slow but ui.. no | 09:07 |
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| Jucato | the 20101109.1 version right? | 09:08 |
| Jucato | oh right, demo. the other one is mod | 09:09 |
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| harryhe | one question, rsync works when RSYNC_PROXY is set on Host, but failed in virtualbox | 09:34 |
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| harryhe | I am trying to install local OBS in virtualbox, and my host is behind a proxy | 09:35 |
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| stylesen | when I try building a package using osc client I get the error "BuildService API error: can't verify packages due to lack of GPG keys" how can I add the GPG keys? | 09:38 |
| stylesen | am using community OBS server | 09:39 |
| Stskeeps | --nogpgcheck | 09:39 |
| stylesen | Stskeeps: there is no option --nogpgcheck in osc client | 09:39 |
| Stskeeps | in osc build? | 09:40 |
| Stskeeps | i guess it's --no-verify | 09:40 |
| stylesen | --nochecks is there, trying with that | 09:40 |
| Stskeeps | no-verify is prolly better | 09:41 |
| stylesen | Stskeeps: yes trying with that | 09:41 |
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| stylesen | Stskeeps: it works thank you :) | 09:42 |
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| Jay_BEE | gn | 10:41 |
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| tyson_ | Stskeeps: online? | 10:52 |
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| Stskeeps | tyson_: a little busy | 10:52 |
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| tyson_ | Stskeeps: OK...work first....thank you.... | 10:53 |
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| tyson_ | hello, anybody know obs git? | 10:54 |
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| kyb3R | timoph: ping | 11:01 |
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| timoph | kyb3R: pong | 11:02 |
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| Charubala1920 | Hi All | 11:03 |
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| Charubala1920 | I am looking for pppd rpm for meego | 11:03 |
| Charubala1920 | I couldnt find any package under repos.meego.com | 11:04 |
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| Charubala1920 | Could someone please tell me where i can find this pppd rpm for meego? | 11:05 |
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| johnx | Charubala1920, give it some time. wait a bit before asking again. | 11:06 |
| johnx | also, good morning :) | 11:06 |
| Charubala1920 | Sure John. Good Morning :) | 11:07 |
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| jeremiah_ | Termana: pong :-) | 12:08 |
| jeremiah_ | Belated though it may be. | 12:08 |
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| timoph | looks like we have a spammer visiting the forums | 12:56 |
| timoph | http://forum.meego.com/search.php?searchid=147370 | 12:57 |
| Myrtti | sadly I can't do anything to other places than General :-< | 12:57 |
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| timoph | that spam got cleaned pretty fast | 13:08 |
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| niala | lo | 13:55 |
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| niala | have you problem with zypper update today? | 13:59 |
| niala | File './i586/evolution-libs-2.30.1~20100423-10.2.i586.rpm' not found on medium 'http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/trunk/daily/netbook/repos/ia32/packages/' ..... | 14:00 |
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| niala | just to know if it's a normal issue due of 'daily image' or if it is a problem from me | 14:02 |
| tzafrir_laptop | anybody running asterisk on meego? | 14:03 |
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| tzafrir_laptop | If so: any idea what it would take to let it use the telephony on a say, N900? | 14:03 |
| niala | not me | 14:03 |
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| tzafrir_laptop | I'm well familiar with Asterisk, not with Meego | 14:04 |
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| niala | tzafrir_laptop: if you can compil asterix sources it should working | 14:05 |
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| tzafrir_laptop | niala, I figure it's possible. There's an existing package for maemo somewhere, IIRC | 14:06 |
| tzafrir_laptop | I figure that part is a technical issue | 14:07 |
| tzafrir_laptop | But how can I generate calls in the phone? | 14:07 |
| tzafrir_laptop | Or answer them? | 14:07 |
| tzafrir_laptop | Is it possible? | 14:07 |
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| niala | i believe meego use ophono to make calls | 14:09 |
| MoL0ToV | there are some groups/people that wanna port meego to nokia N-series phones? | 14:10 |
| MoL0ToV | is possible to load a linux kernel on s60 5th ed phones? | 14:11 |
| niala | ofono sorry | 14:11 |
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| CosmoHill | MoL0ToV: I don't believe so | 14:12 |
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| CosmoHill | I mean it's possible, everything is possible, but it's very hard | 14:13 |
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| MoL0ToV | linux is ported to arm devices? | 14:13 |
| CosmoHill | wb GeneralAntilles | 14:13 |
| CosmoHill | yes | 14:14 |
| niala | hello CosmoHill | 14:14 |
| CosmoHill | salut niala | 14:14 |
| niala | under snow here | 14:14 |
| dm8tbr | It's usually not the ARM/linux part. it's the surrounding hardware, lack of documentation thereof etc. | 14:14 |
| MoL0ToV | gsm/umts/gps/webcam drivers? | 14:15 |
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| MoL0ToV | a wizard of reverse enginering is needed :) | 14:15 |
| MohammadAG | anyone tried to install meego on the internal eMMC? | 14:15 |
| psycho_oreos | S60 uses signed bootloader if I'm not mistaken, so there's no way to bypass that unless you can get nokia's signature to sign the linux kernel installation | 14:16 |
| MohammadAG | on a separate partition that is | 14:16 |
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| MohammadAG | guess not | 14:17 |
| * MohammadAG backs up and partitions the eMMC | 14:17 | |
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| MoL0ToV | nokia must release the documentation | 14:17 |
| CosmoHill | MohammadAG: it can be installed onto the internal memory but it's very hard and not documented | 14:17 |
| psycho_oreos | you can start that by emailing them :) | 14:17 |
| MoL0ToV | is a strategic need for nokia | 14:17 |
| MoL0ToV | but don't undertand i think | 14:18 |
| MohammadAG | CosmoHill, but it was done right? | 14:18 |
| CosmoHill | Stskeeps said it has been done but only within nokia | 14:18 |
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| MohammadAG | same partition type? | 14:18 |
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| MohammadAG | brtfs? | 14:18 |
| CosmoHill | I don't know about that part | 14:19 |
| psycho_oreos | in any case I don't think you'll get far with porting meego to symbian devices MoL0ToV, you may as well save yourself some headache and simply get n900 unless you're willing to brick your symbian powered phone | 14:21 |
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| sivang | MohammadAG: what sort of kernel work did you do to get host mode work? | 14:42 |
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| Jaffa | Morning, all | 14:44 |
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| MohammadAG | sivang, read credits, patches are by PaulFertser only | 14:45 |
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| sivang | morning Jaffa | 14:48 |
| sivang | MohammadAG: nice | 14:48 |
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| alterego | Is mic really that sensitive about python versions? Will it only work with 2.6 or will 2.7 work? | 15:12 |
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| Stskeeps | mic's just generally moody | 15:13 |
| alterego | Oh :( | 15:13 |
| alterego | Had I known that this was going to be a waste of time, I might have actually decided to debug why it doesn't work on ubuntu 10.10 .. | 15:13 |
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| alterego | Cool, managed to get it to work with fedora 14 :) | 15:22 |
| Jucato | greetings again. I know Fedora 14 isn't (yet) supported as an SDK platform. but is it possible to at least use Fedora 13 *x86_64*? | 15:23 |
| alterego | Well, it's working .. | 15:23 |
| Jucato | lol nice timing :) | 15:23 |
| alterego | Hah | 15:23 |
| Jucato | :D | 15:23 |
| alterego | Jucato: I'm using packages out of f13 at the moment. | 15:23 |
| alterego | Do you plan on creating your own images? | 15:23 |
| Jucato | wikify please? I'm still struggling whether I should reformat and install F13 i386 on this laptop instead | 15:23 |
| Jucato | no | 15:23 |
| alterego | Ah, well that's what I'm doing. | 15:23 |
| Jucato | just getting the SDK working (and possibly package) | 15:23 |
| Jucato | ah | 15:24 |
| alterego | So just try following the instructions and use the f13 repo and let me know if you hit any walls | 15:24 |
| Jucato | on F14? 32 or 64-bit? :) | 15:24 |
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| alterego | Probably safer to do 32bit, but there are 64bit packages available. | 15:24 |
| Jucato | :/ | 15:24 |
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| alterego | Well, try 64bit then :P | 15:25 |
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| alterego | If you've got the time and bandwidth what have you got to lose ;) | 15:25 |
| Stskeeps | lo wazd | 15:25 |
| Jucato | my sanity? which is in very short supply? | 15:25 |
| Jucato | :) | 15:25 |
| wazd | hello all, hi Stskeeps :) | 15:26 |
| alterego | Jucato: just try it, I'm sure you'll be fine ;) | 15:26 |
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| alterego | And I'll help you if you hit a wall. | 15:26 |
| alterego | On a positive note, my 32bit f14 doesn't complain at all, where as on ubuntu I was getting warnings all over the place. | 15:26 |
| alterego | It's almost done now too, so we'll see if it actually works or not .. | 15:26 |
| alterego | Hey wazd | 15:27 |
| Jucato | ok. I was hoping I could just install F13 64-bit and just upgrade to F14 when it's already supported. | 15:27 |
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| alterego | yay, it worked :) | 15:29 |
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| alterego | I suppose I should update the wikipage. | 15:30 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: how's stuff? | 15:30 |
| Jucato | congrats alterego :) | 15:30 |
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| alterego | Yes, my first meego madde sysroot :) | 15:33 |
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| alterego | It's quite refreshing running mic without any errors :/ | 15:34 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: awesome, working on qml ui for very popular maemo program :) | 15:34 |
| joppu | Stskeeps: gonna release "meegotouch-theme-example-stskeeps" someday when stable version meego is out? :D | 15:34 |
| joppu | I just want to be always one step ahead :P | 15:34 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: not sure if I can mention it :D | 15:34 |
| Jucato | Stskeeps: thanks for the pointer to the demo image. works as advertised: more fluid UI, slow to start apps :) | 15:34 |
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| alterego | No to set this VM/machine to autobuild my images. | 15:50 |
| alterego | s/No/Now | 15:50 |
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| gour | hello | 16:10 |
| gour | when one might expect some meego-powered smart.phone to appear (don't tell me about n900) ? | 16:11 |
| X-Fade | gour: In 2011. | 16:12 |
| gour | X-Fade: 1q? | 16:12 |
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| X-Fade | gour: No idea. | 16:12 |
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| joppu | http://www.engadget.com/2010/10/21/stephen-elop-first-meego-device-is-a-2011-event/ | 16:13 |
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| gour | i'm waitingfor quite some time, but it looks i should buy some android instead | 16:13 |
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| alterego | Whatever floats your boat. | 16:14 |
| alterego | :) | 16:14 |
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| gour | n9 won't be cheap and who knows when it might appear here...buying unlocked one is no-deal...n900 unlocked costs ~675€ | 16:15 |
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| gour | and locked one is offered via only one provider (not mine :-/ ) | 16:15 |
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| gour | so, another 2-yrt plan without meego, it seems :-( | 16:16 |
| joppu | well, might as well buy an android then if you are that unsure? | 16:18 |
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| jnwi | gour: Are you sure your area doesn't have any reasonably priced network contracts that let you provide your own phone? | 16:20 |
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| gour | jnwi: nope...i use the cheapest provider and there is no n900 available...of course, i can buy unlocked n900, but for 675€ it's too much even for meego :-) | 16:21 |
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| gour | i'm also not targetting high-end android, but e.g. galaxy s is more then twice cheaper | 16:22 |
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| joppu | buy a device on hire purchase in your local store? | 16:23 |
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| gour | joppu: we're in croatia if you understand what does it mean ;) | 16:24 |
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| joppu | meaning that? | 16:24 |
| gour | i'm just afraid that buying android may led me to qt-android (via D) development | 16:24 |
| gour | joppu: there are no sucvh thing...here you can buy some device and you can replace it within 7 or 8 days...not 1 or 3 months | 16:25 |
| joppu | that's too bad | 16:26 |
| gour | and that's good if they don't force you to just replace with some other goods instead of providing refund | 16:26 |
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| gour | indeed...so unlocked meego is out of question... | 16:26 |
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| gour | otoh, i hoped nokia/intel would push meego a little bit harder | 16:28 |
| leinir | gour: They're pushing, the thing simply is - it's still not even a year old :) | 16:29 |
| X-Fade | It took a year after announce for Android for devices to show up. | 16:29 |
| leinir | a lot of people forget this, it already feels so nifty ;) | 16:29 |
| X-Fade | Things just take time. | 16:29 |
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| gour | well, 1.0 was not much more than moblin... | 16:29 |
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| gour | X-Fade: true, but android is taking its share...what to say about iOS 4g is already in croatia | 16:30 |
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| X-Fade | gour: Some things can't be rushed. | 16:31 |
| X-Fade | Launching a device which sucks is not really an option either ;) | 16:31 |
| gour | X-Fade: true...but they will have hard time penetrating the market if they're latecomers | 16:31 |
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| X-Fade | gour: Well, that they are already. So ;) | 16:32 |
| RST38h | X-Fade: It is not??? | 16:32 |
| RST38h | X-Fade: Really? | 16:32 |
| gour | one would expect that nokia/intel have resources to be more pushy...but nokia did not released meego phone, but went with symbian | 16:32 |
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| X-Fade | gour: When it is ready, you will see a lot more devices. | 16:33 |
| gour | we'll see ;) | 16:33 |
| CosmoHill | pushing out something that isn't ready will reflect badly on the companies and damage the products reputation | 16:33 |
| slaine | Is €675 an accurate price for an unlocked n900 ? | 16:33 |
| X-Fade | slaine: No. | 16:34 |
| gour | for now, we're going to android...no choice | 16:34 |
| CosmoHill | I'd say it depends on the country | 16:34 |
| RST38h | what is "â?¬"? | 16:34 |
| slaine | Seems on the high side | 16:34 |
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| CosmoHill | RST38h: you mean € ? It's a euro sign | 16:34 |
| gour | slaine: it's simply too much | 16:34 |
| rauli | slaine: you can get a brand new one for 450 eur | 16:34 |
| RST38h | Ah, e675 is too much | 16:34 |
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| slaine | rauli: that's more like the prices I'd seen | 16:34 |
| gour | i love and use linux, but i'm from croatia :-) | 16:35 |
| berndhs | US$350 from amazon | 16:35 |
| gour | and today's hardware is meant to be replaced sooner than later | 16:35 |
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| berndhs | they will probably ship to croatia | 16:35 |
| gour | berndhs: they probably do not want to export... | 16:35 |
| berndhs | why would they care ? | 16:35 |
| CosmoHill | if my computers were human, most of them would be in school | 16:35 |
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| slaine | that's nonsense, hardware should be replaced when it's no longer sufficient. You just want something new and shinny. | 16:36 |
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| gour | berndhs: you can check shipping policy | 16:36 |
| gour | guests...bbl | 16:36 |
| berndhs | you can check, I know they will ship here :) | 16:36 |
| slaine | zing | 16:36 |
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| qgil | lbt did tyou see my last email about the Apps Packages Surrounds discussion at meego-community? | 16:37 |
| CosmoHill | slaine: people like shiny things, that is why you get people buying phone contracts with TVs and xboxs instead of doing maths and finding out they are paying to much | 16:37 |
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| slaine | CosmoHill, it beats saving for a year if you can has it NOW | 16:37 |
| qgil | lbt: sent last Thursday | 16:38 |
| X-Fade | qgil: The whole surrounds thing should not be a visible thing for end-users anyway. | 16:38 |
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| qgil | X-Fade: my point exactly, without questioning the name itself :) | 16:38 |
| berndhs | the entire mobile phone industry is based on shinyness | 16:38 |
| X-Fade | qgil: They just see Extras, which can or can not include it. | 16:38 |
| CosmoHill | slaine: hmm true, I can't say I've ever really considered a contract so I've not put much thought into it | 16:38 |
| X-Fade | qgil: But really, people discuss too much and do too little :) | 16:38 |
| qgil | "Extras"? You mean "Apps"? X-Fade | 16:38 |
| X-Fade | qgil: No, Extras. :) Wallpapers are not apps. | 16:39 |
| qgil | X-Fade: well, lbt started a discussion to have an agreement and we are quite there | 16:39 |
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| CosmoHill | berndhs: "I see you 5.2MP camera phone and I raise you my *5.3* MP phone" | 16:39 |
| X-Fade | qgil: Themes are not Apps, ringtones are not apps. | 16:39 |
| berndhs | qgil: X-Fade: whats the big issue with the name? can't you have several names that go to the same site ? | 16:39 |
| X-Fade | qgil: If it was me, it would be CoolStuff[tm] ;) | 16:41 |
| CosmoHill | that sounds like a good category | 16:41 |
| qgil | X-Fade: if a wallpaper and a ringtone is something found in a catalog that can be downladed and installed from a user point of view - have no doubt that for those users the difference is irrelevant | 16:41 |
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| berndhs | ShinyAdditions | 16:41 |
| X-Fade | qgil: yes, but then it is still weird to call it Apps. | 16:42 |
| qgil | X-Fade: but anyway, lbt opened a bug and a related thread at meego-community to discuss and decide this - I have been following his process :) | 16:42 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: But if they're in Apps you can call them "apps" and then that helps in the war of "apps" numbers | 16:42 |
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| X-Fade | Jaffa: Yeah, sure. We can lie too. | 16:42 |
| qgil | X-Fade: the point of discussionm is a <title> and a URL, all the rest is pure semantics | 16:43 |
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| X-Fade | qgil: Yeah. I know. We should just pick something which makes more sense. | 16:44 |
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| X-Fade | qgil: But let other people fight over it, I'll just make it work instead of discussing the name :D | 16:44 |
| qgil | X-Fade: I can't do the work, so let me at least help at finding the right name http://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=11053#c4 | 16:46 |
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| X-Fade | qgil: Hehe, you should be enjoying a holiday IIRC ;) | 16:46 |
| qgil | X-Fade: starting next week ;:) | 16:46 |
| X-Fade | Ach so. | 16:47 |
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| qgil | genau | 16:47 |
| * GAN900 , too, prefers "Extras". | 16:47 | |
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| GAN900 | Apps is rather generic. | 16:48 |
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| joppu | themes should probably have their own category | 16:50 |
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| alterego | qgil, GAN900, is there still an N900 device queue? I keep getting held back because I can't use my personal phone as a dev device all the time :/ | 16:50 |
| X-Fade | joppu: But you can download them through the same website and client. | 16:50 |
| joppu | not sure if ringtones and wallpapers would be doable due to copyrights | 16:50 |
| alterego | In an ideal world, I wouldn't use my phone as a dev device at all ^.^ | 16:50 |
| qgil | alterego: send me an email explaining the problem, thanks | 16:50 |
| GAN900 | joppu, agreed. That was a mistake with our categorization efforts. | 16:50 |
| alterego | qgil, okay, cheers. | 16:50 |
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| lardman | alterego: did you flash the new pvr driver image ok? | 16:51 |
| X-Fade | GAN900: Well if categories made sense and the app was good, you would not see them ;) | 16:51 |
| alterego | lardman: about to do it. | 16:51 |
| X-Fade | GAN900: But if you always need to pick 'All' as category, then yeah. | 16:51 |
| lardman | let me know how you get on | 16:51 |
| alterego | lardman: my daily yesterday didn't uboot boot :/ | 16:51 |
| lardman | hmm, not ideal | 16:52 |
| X-Fade | joppu: Creative Commons? | 16:52 |
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| joppu | didn't previous maemo releases have arbitrary categories that could be just defined? | 16:52 |
| X-Fade | joppu: Yeah, that was a mistake too ;) | 16:53 |
| joppu | :D | 16:53 |
| X-Fade | But categories are always limiting. | 16:53 |
| GAN900 | X-Fade, oh, indeed. | 16:54 |
| lardman | didn't we talk about using tags in the dim and distant past rather than the section? | 16:55 |
| X-Fade | lardman: Yeah, but that doesn't work like you'd expect. | 16:56 |
| lardman | oh, fair enough | 16:56 |
| X-Fade | lardman: Tags are a great way to descibe an app for instance. | 16:56 |
| X-Fade | But using it reverse, for lookup is a pain. | 16:56 |
| lardman | if the user doesn't know what they want you mean | 16:56 |
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| leinir | if you go with user-assigned tags, please consider using a broad folksonomy rather than a narrow one... | 16:57 |
| X-Fade | lardman: http://screenshots.debian.net/package/apachetop | 16:58 |
| X-Fade | lardman: Check the tags describing apachetop here. | 16:58 |
| X-Fade | lardman: Now consider casual browsing based on tags. | 16:58 |
| lardman | well apart from the fact one doesn't browse for apache, yeah they aren't very useful | 16:59 |
| lardman | s/apache/apachetop | 17:00 |
| X-Fade | lardman: Well this started with an a ;) | 17:00 |
| lardman | i.e. I can't see someone browsing for it unless they know what it is already | 17:00 |
| lardman | :) | 17:00 |
| lardman | http://screenshots.debian.net/package/3dchess is perhaps more like it | 17:00 |
| lardman | game, board, chess, etc | 17:01 |
| Jaffa | joppu: Someone can make their own tune and upload it as a ringtone, just like someone can write an app. | 17:01 |
| lardman | but I accept your argument, you could search the package descriptions to get this data so it makes no odds | 17:01 |
| X-Fade | lardman: You are already looking for something really specific when you look for a board game. | 17:01 |
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| joppu | Jaffa: yeah, or copy a licensed image off google and package it | 17:04 |
| joppu | oh well | 17:04 |
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| Linex | any meego phone yet ? Can't wait to get rid of my n97. | 17:06 |
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| CosmoHill | Linex: nope | 17:07 |
| CosmoHill | something should be coming out next year | 17:07 |
| Linex | in Q1 ? | 17:08 |
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| CosmoHill | Linex: http://www.engadget.com/2010/10/21/stephen-elop-first-meego-device-is-a-2011-event/ | 17:08 |
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| Linex | Hope samsung join the meego bandwagon, they make good phones, their screens are really nice. | 17:08 |
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| X-Fade | lardman: fwiw, Android uses these categories: http://market.android.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=113475 | 17:09 |
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| lardman | hmm, obviously not many people doing sciency stuff with Android then ;) | 17:12 |
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| alterego | lardman: just managed to boot my daily with new sgx fine. | 17:15 |
| lardman | seems odd to have a Demo category unless you can select more than one (and it seems to indicate you can't) | 17:15 |
| lardman | alterego: cool, I'll build one when I get home | 17:15 |
| alterego | Seems using a fedora 14 vm has cured all my image creator woes | 17:16 |
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| alterego | bbiab | 17:16 |
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| lardman | X-Fade: did you see an equivalent for the iPhone? I see it has "Explicit" :) | 17:18 |
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| X-Fade | lardman: I don't seem to have enough google foo to find an official list for iPhone. | 17:20 |
| lardman | nah nor me, I'm still looking for something other than a screenshot | 17:20 |
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| jespada_ | Hi, I need to set up a local meego mirror, what would be the best way, rsync? | 17:22 |
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| lardman | X-Fade: http://blog.mobclix.com/2009/09/23/app-store-by-the-numbers-category-breakdown/ | 17:25 |
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| lardman | in fact this also shows subcategories in the drop down: http://www.mobclix.com/appstore/1/ | 17:26 |
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| X-Fade | lardman: But only for games it seems :) | 17:28 |
| lardman | perhaps that's all there is? | 17:28 |
| lardman | I'll have a look on my wife's iPod Touch when I get home | 17:28 |
| X-Fade | But I think that if we compare this list and the android one, we can come up with something which is quite sensible. | 17:28 |
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| X-Fade | And doesn't contain things like 'X11' or 'python'. | 17:29 |
| lardman | Though we'll probably want to add some more serious categories I'd guess, or perhaps not | 17:29 |
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| lardman | Are subcategories allowed? Programming > Python | 17:29 |
| X-Fade | lardman: http://wiki.meego.com/Packaging/Guidelines#Group_Tag | 17:30 |
| X-Fade | This is what we have now. | 17:30 |
| X-Fade | Subcategories can be used, as long as we don't make huge trees :) | 17:30 |
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| X-Fade | And if you look at that list, you can see we need to come up with a list based on _user_ needs instead of a list created by developers :) | 17:31 |
| lardman | so more categories to be added below Applications then if we wish to match the iPhone/Android level of granularity for user apps | 17:31 |
| X-Fade | No way you want to have 400 i18n languages listed as categories etc. | 17:32 |
| lardman | well the user won't want to see any of the System stuff really | 17:32 |
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| X-Fade | So the App can decide to not show certain groups. | 17:33 |
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| X-Fade | A clear split between user visible things and platform developers might be a good idea. | 17:35 |
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| mwichmann | does anyone know if the roadmap page is being updated? (http://meego.com/developers/meego-roadmap) | 17:46 |
| mwichmann | it stops at 1.1, which is "in the past" | 17:46 |
| Stskeeps | mwichmann: ah, i forgot we had a roadmap for a second there | 17:47 |
| Stskeeps | i thought it was around the corner some months back :) | 17:47 |
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| mwichmann | always dangerous to publish things, then silly people like me want them kept up to date :) | 17:49 |
| Stskeeps | my primary information source is the wiki and featurezilla :P | 17:49 |
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| mwichmann | sure, it works, I'm just looking for a page to point "external" folks to in response to a question | 17:50 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 17:50 |
| Stskeeps | i don't know where the roadmap is, personally :P | 17:50 |
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| Stskeeps | think it's not finished | 17:51 |
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| Myrtti | Stskeeps: your slip is showing ;-) | 17:57 |
| Stskeeps | eep | 17:57 |
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| alterego | Is anyone looking into some kind of compatibility layer for android drivers? I'm thinking to reduce the pressure on vendors, if we had generic wrappers that could proxy meego apis to their andoid counter parts. | 18:03 |
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| Stskeeps | well, the problem is that they're using power management that is unsuitable for linux kernel, i think.. | 18:04 |
| alterego | tbh, I don't know anything about Android OS layers, but I'm guessing hardware control eventually boils down to a low level kernel or userspace that could be cross compiled for meego | 18:04 |
| alterego | Oh, m'kay | 18:04 |
| alterego | Still, may be of benifit? | 18:04 |
| Stskeeps | i'm more interested in having android apps render onto meego ;) | 18:05 |
| alterego | Even if we're not talking about a drop in replacement for android devices, I'd imagine vendors, like Nokia do, use their own standard hardware | 18:05 |
| Stskeeps | but it's comparable to the 'hildon' issue | 18:05 |
| berndhs | what android things, other than apps, would you want to run on meego ? | 18:05 |
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| Stskeeps | berndhs: pretty much nothing | 18:06 |
| alterego | berndhs: I'm talking about easing vendor adoption of the platform. | 18:06 |
| alterego | Not running Android apps :P | 18:06 |
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| berndhs | right,alterego: so what would they want to run ? same question for them | 18:06 |
| alterego | My idea is for making it easier for them to adapt meego for their devices :P | 18:06 |
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| alterego | Presumably MeeGo, hence the idea :P | 18:07 |
| berndhs | MeeGo on top of Android ? | 18:07 |
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| berndhs | or just meego on some hardware that now uses android | 18:07 |
| alterego | No, MeeGo wrappers for low level android hardware drivers. Presumably all Linux kernel drivers but with some other interface. | 18:08 |
| * javispedro shudders | 18:08 | |
| slaine | You can't run an OS ontop of another os without virtualization and I doubt any handset vendors are ready for that yet | 18:08 |
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| Stskeeps | alterego: i think generally android kernels should work, i think.. | 18:08 |
| alterego | I think you're all confusing what I'm saying :P | 18:08 |
| berndhs | slaine: sure, its nonsense for a phone | 18:08 |
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| alterego | Stskeeps: right good, but what about Qt backends and such. | 18:09 |
| javispedro | I think the entire power saving models are different | 18:09 |
| berndhs | alterego: are there any hardware bits used by android devices that are special? I though its all pretty plain stuff | 18:09 |
| Stskeeps | alterego: well, that's up to the hw adaptator anyway | 18:09 |
| slaine | alterego: afaik, Stskeeps is pretty much right on there, They have added lots of hooks for pm and other areas that where not accepted in the upstream kernel and they have little interest in having the upstream kernel support android | 18:09 |
| alterego | In the absense of both platforms using the same kernel interfaces. | 18:09 |
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| slaine | they've the resources to manage their own fork of linux and so are happy to do that if it means they keep controling their product | 18:10 |
| alterego | Fair points, now we're all on the same page :P | 18:10 |
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| alterego | Still, even without pm, and I'm guessing here, maybe a few wrappers is still a good idea. | 18:11 |
| slaine | The onus is on the hardware provider to develop their drivers for upstream and not solely on the android fork | 18:11 |
| berndhs | alterego: so teh thing to do would be to grab the shiniest android device and see what doesnt work with meego | 18:11 |
| alterego | But I don't know how android hardware exposes through the kernel and where it differs for us. | 18:11 |
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| alterego | slaine: exactly | 18:12 |
| berndhs | there isn't anything special about android hardware, or is there ? | 18:12 |
| slaine | berndhs: not particularly | 18:12 |
| slaine | though I don't know what I'm talking about ;) | 18:12 |
| ali1234 | there is nothing special about the hardware, however the drivers are written in a rather ... bad way | 18:12 |
| alterego | berndhs: I'd imagine it's all just silly little number ranges and stuff. | 18:12 |
| slaine | alterego: you're making assumptions | 18:12 |
| alterego | Indeed | 18:13 |
| alterego | I am I've already said that :P | 18:13 |
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| berndhs | my assumption is the cheapest stuff they can get away with :) | 18:13 |
| javispedro | alterego: android implements most of power saving by suspend()ing, OS usually suspends after idle timeout, applications/other drivers can prevent suspension by special interface | 18:13 |
| ali1234 | the kernel part of most android "drivers" simple exports a mmap device which maps the hardware io memory to userspace, then the actual driver code is in a userspace application | 18:13 |
| slaine | If it was that trivial there'd already be a HAL for android so they they could use upstream kernels whenever they wanted | 18:13 |
| smoku | alterego, could you give an "for instance" of the drivers you want to ease porting? | 18:13 |
| Stskeeps | smoku: irc gateway fixed? :P | 18:13 |
| alterego | smoku: okay, how about cellmo and accel :) | 18:14 |
| alterego | They don't use ofono | 18:14 |
| Stskeeps | those you have to write ofono drivers for anyway | 18:14 |
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| alterego | So what about an ofono backend for whatever android uses? | 18:14 |
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| ali1234 | android uses RIL, it is rewritten for each and every device, it is a userspace library | 18:14 |
| smoku | alterego, I ported accelerometer drivers for two devices and there wasn't anything special about it. just fixing the API calls that got changed from older kernel versions | 18:15 |
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| ali1234 | there is RIL for ofono, but not ofono for RIL... | 18:15 |
| alterego | The drive for this is purely to make it easier for vendors to adapt meego, then hopefully they'll clean up their act and get stuff upstreamed properly. | 18:15 |
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| smoku | alterego, gsm modem is usually just serial port, so there is nothing special about it too | 18:15 |
| slaine | alterego, they'd have no reason to as you'd have done the adaptation work for them | 18:15 |
| alterego | ali1234: well, that's at least some of it answered then :) | 18:15 |
| slaine | effectively cementing the android api as the api to use for kernel drivers | 18:16 |
| ali1234 | plus they is nothing to upstream because all the actual useful code is in closed userspace binaries | 18:16 |
| smoku | alterego, most of the google GPIO stuff was included in the latest kernels, so it's just a matter of s/gpio_*/.../ calls to the new names and including linux/gpio.h instead mach/gpio.h | 18:16 |
| alterego | right, like bme, isi .... | 18:16 |
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| alterego | Anyway, original question is kind of satisfied, yes, someone has done something along the lines of what I was thinking :) | 18:17 |
| smoku | alterego, there are some custom drivers depending on google added hardware clocks and timers. but these are not critical, and even though most of these google stuff is available in staging drivers section | 18:17 |
| berndhs | I'm not sure why it would be the drivers that are slowing anyone down using meego | 18:17 |
| ali1234 | it isn't | 18:18 |
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| ali1234 | drivers are only a problem for hobbyists | 18:18 |
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| smoku | Stskeeps, not really. but I'm looking on replacing this python crap with some modern libpurple stuff :) | 18:18 |
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| ali1234 | if you order 10 million chips they'll make you a driver for any OS you want... | 18:18 |
| Macer | smoku: awesome! python ftl | 18:18 |
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| Macer | :) | 18:18 |
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| Macer | any timeline on when meego might be usable on an n900? | 18:19 |
| alterego | now! | 18:20 |
| alterego | But that depends on your definition of usable. | 18:20 |
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| Macer | end user usable with all the hardware working ;) | 18:20 |
| Jartza | never? | 18:20 |
| alterego | this time next year | 18:20 |
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| Macer | wow. by next year the n900 will be obsolete | 18:21 |
| alterego | It's not already? | 18:21 |
| berndhs | Macer: yeah and you'll be able to get it real cheap | 18:21 |
| alterego | jk :P | 18:21 |
| Macer | no. not yet. :) | 18:21 |
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| Macer | still has a good 4 months left | 18:21 |
| berndhs | and if you invest wisely now, you can afford it a year from now | 18:21 |
| Macer | i know it is my last nokia tho heh | 18:21 |
| alterego | Oh well | 18:22 |
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| Macer | unless they stick by something non-symbian and maemo derived | 18:22 |
| alterego | "last Nokia" how can people make these massive wall statements? | 18:22 |
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| alterego | Are you including MeeGo? | 18:22 |
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| alterego | 2011 Q1 is supposed to be first MeeGo Nokia device iirc | 18:23 |
| Macer | it has yet to be seen how well meego will be supported | 18:23 |
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| Macer | if it follows the maemo trend then it will be abandoned every other year | 18:23 |
| Macer | :) | 18:23 |
| alterego | That's more of a device perspective, not platform :P | 18:24 |
| Macer | maybe. | 18:24 |
| alterego | It's been 6 years for maemo to get abandoned. | 18:24 |
| Stskeeps | meh, keeping meego devices on lifesupport should be trivial with meego | 18:24 |
| Stskeeps | add another hardware adaptation.. | 18:24 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 18:24 |
| alterego | Stskeeps: you'd hope it'd already be there ;) | 18:24 |
| Macer | Stskeeps: heh. maybe as well. nokia has a bad habit of cutting the cord | 18:25 |
| Macer | bbl | 18:25 |
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| alterego | If Nokia walks the walk with the next device, then I'll breathe a sigh of relief .. | 18:25 |
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| Stskeeps | alterego: well yes | 18:25 |
| Stskeeps | alterego: but there's a significant economic benefit in not having to maintain the entire OS for a device, just the hw adaptation | 18:26 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 18:26 |
| alterego | And if they can continue dishout out bme, sgx and that to the closed builders, well, I'll live with that. | 18:26 |
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| alterego | dishing ... | 18:26 |
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| alterego | Any news on gps? | 18:27 |
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| alterego | Oh and is data working yet? | 18:27 |
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| Stskeeps | data should work, just no ui for it | 18:28 |
| alterego | splended | 18:28 |
| Stskeeps | and gps is difficult | 18:28 |
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| * alterego sighs | 18:29 | |
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| alterego | How difficult? | 18:29 |
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| Stskeeps | well | 18:30 |
| Stskeeps | it talks to the gps through the modem, which is the first challenge | 18:30 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 18:30 |
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| alterego | Presumably Nokia haven't voiced an opinion? We have a user space app that can talk directly to it | 18:31 |
| alterego | A lot of the proto is also reverse engineered. | 18:31 |
| Stskeeps | agps is what's needed | 18:31 |
| alterego | Ah, good point. | 18:32 |
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| Stskeeps | do keep in mind we have nokians on the team so if we aren't doing something right away, it's cos it's technically difficult :P | 18:32 |
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| alterego | Hrm | 18:33 |
| alterego | Or too much grunt worth to be bothered :P | 18:33 |
| Stskeeps | nah | 18:33 |
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| Stskeeps | the 'best' thing i can see right now is bad, cos we'd just write liblocation (closed source) into a geoclue wrapper | 18:34 |
| Stskeeps | so it's one more closed bits and we're not exactly fans of those | 18:34 |
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| alterego | Agreed, but it'd be nice to just have something working tbh .. | 18:35 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, agreed | 18:35 |
| alterego | Esp. since my major app is a navigation app :) | 18:35 |
| * Stskeeps ponders | 18:35 | |
| Stskeeps | well, if you want, check out how location is tied together in m5 and what libs it uses | 18:35 |
| alterego | okay, I'll do that. | 18:36 |
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| alterego | Nothing interesting outside of glib/gobject | 18:36 |
| Stskeeps | libisi and such is the interesting parts | 18:37 |
| alterego | I think it accesses directly through ceelmo | 18:37 |
| alterego | No, not through isi .. | 18:37 |
| javispedro | didn't luke-jr manage to get most of the data sent via cellmo? | 18:37 |
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| Stskeeps | javispedro: yes, but not agps.. | 18:37 |
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| javispedro | hm | 18:37 |
| javispedro | Stskeeps: will Nokia approve getting data from their agps server with a RE'd client? | 18:38 |
| alterego | I still can't believe our chip isn't documented :D | 18:38 |
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| alterego | javispedro: we can use a google source if we want .. | 18:38 |
| alterego | supl.nokia.com is confurable. afiar | 18:39 |
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| javispedro | it is, I have no idea about the protocol but it must be partially standarized somewhere | 18:39 |
| lardman | I thought the Google server had stopped accepting requests from the N900...? | 18:39 |
| alterego | its just injecting the raw alamanac | 18:39 |
| alterego | trivial I'm sure we can find a public source. | 18:39 |
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| alterego | I could hook my garmin handheld to an always on pc and forward it to my server if worst comes to it :) | 18:40 |
| javispedro | it's not a bad idea actually =) | 18:40 |
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| alterego | Would only work for a chunk of europe centered around the uk though :P | 18:42 |
| pixelgeek | alterego: just the important bits then :) | 18:43 |
| alterego | If we could do this though, dgps may become an option :) | 18:43 |
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| javispedro | if it's just almanac your garmin is able to export the entire message | 18:44 |
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| alterego | Yeah, that proto was reversed for this garmin years ago | 18:45 |
| alterego | By some clever italian prof who does gps stuff for a living. | 18:45 |
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| javispedro | huh? | 18:45 |
| javispedro | it is documented | 18:45 |
| javispedro | by garmin | 18:45 |
| alterego | groovy | 18:46 |
| alterego | My knowledge of this is very old, I just remember reading it | 18:46 |
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| alterego | Probably 5 years ago | 18:46 |
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| javispedro | in the old days they were much more friendly =) | 18:47 |
| alterego | (it's an old garmin 12XL) | 18:47 |
| javispedro | either way, going OT. | 18:47 |
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| alterego | :) | 18:47 |
| alterego | Wouldn't it be just magical if we could just cat the almanac :) | 18:47 |
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| alterego | But I imagine there is a command | 18:47 |
| lardman | I'm more concerned about PM than the GPS really for a day to day image | 18:48 |
| alterego | lardman: sure, but that is being worked, this isn't | 18:48 |
| lardman | I do hope the next device comes with a chipset that has decent stand-alone performance | 18:48 |
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| javispedro | lardman: I mostly expect it to be the same hw as the pre2 | 18:49 |
| javispedro | s/hw/chipset | 18:49 |
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| lardman | what's the pre2? | 18:49 |
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| alterego | palm pre? | 18:50 |
| javispedro | omap3630 1ghz, 512MiB RAM | 18:50 |
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| lardman | and the gps chipset? ;) | 18:50 |
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| javispedro | same as prev one :P | 18:51 |
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| javispedro | (aka same as n900) | 18:51 |
| lardman | what's the problem with open sourcing the gpsdriver? NDA with Ti or something Nokia-related? | 18:51 |
| lardman | javispedro: oh dear | 18:51 |
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| javispedro | lardman: actually MSM6801A (Qualcomm), sorry =) | 18:53 |
| Jaffa | lardman: With a slightly larger screen (so that'd reduce throughput slightly). I believe 854x480 litters the MTF test cases. | 18:54 |
| javispedro | lardman: but dunno if that will be the case, as I was thinking you were mentioning general performance only | 18:54 |
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| lardman | Jaffa: what's MTF | 18:56 |
| alterego | meego touch framework | 18:56 |
| * lardman is feeling lost in acronyms | 18:56 | |
| lardman | ah ok | 18:56 |
| javispedro | you should drop that one acronym, it always freaks me out :) | 18:56 |
| alterego | Heh deja vu | 18:56 |
| lardman | bbiab, heading to the bar for someone's graduation do | 18:57 |
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| alterego | have fun | 18:57 |
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| berndhs | isnt MTF the thing that is not quite released, but scheduled to be deprecated ? | 18:59 |
| aard_ | yep. | 18:59 |
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| sradhakrishna | am trying to build RFS image using http://wiki.meego.com/Image_Creation | 19:03 |
| slonopotamus_ | "scheduled to be deprecated" - i like that | 19:03 |
| sradhakrishna | am using ubuntu 10.10. | 19:03 |
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| Stskeeps | RFS | 19:03 |
| Stskeeps | > | 19:03 |
| Stskeeps | ? | 19:03 |
| sradhakrishna | root file system | 19:04 |
| sradhakrishna | however, when i add the repos in synaptic, | 19:04 |
| sradhakrishna | and do a sudo apt-get update | 19:04 |
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| sradhakrishna | it fails to get the epos. | 19:05 |
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| sradhakrishna | this is what synaptic throws up as an error: Failed to fetch http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/tools/repos/ubuntu/10.10/Release Unable to find expected entry Sources in Meta-index file (malformed Release file?) | 19:06 |
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| lardman | beer + nearly 5.30, not sure much more work will get done today | 19:27 |
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| CosmoHill | the amount of work will go up then suddenly drop as you pass the magical point of between 1 and 1/2 and 1 and 2/3s of a drink | 19:29 |
| lardman | no, I think that;'s skill at pool isn't it? ;) | 19:29 |
| CosmoHill | search on youtube, "mitchell and webb slightly drunk" | 19:29 |
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| berndhs | pool isn't important when you're sober. after 3 beers its cosmic | 19:33 |
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| * lardman heads home, bb online l | 19:35 | |
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| * timeless_mbp looks around | 19:35 | |
| andre__ | can I still assume that MeeGoConf videos of the last conf day will get published on video.linuxfoundation.org? Haven't seen anything from Wednesday yet... | 19:35 |
| timeless_mbp | can someone please point me to MeeGo IT? | 19:35 |
| * andre__ 'd like to review the nonsense that he talked | 19:35 | |
| timeless_mbp | andre__ =~ s/talked/said|spoke/ | 19:36 |
| andre__ | uh, true :) | 19:36 |
| timeless_mbp | can you help me? :) | 19:37 |
| andre__ | heh. no idea, sorry :) | 19:37 |
| berndhs | timeless_mbp: no, your insurance says its too late, doctors forced to give up | 19:37 |
| timeless_mbp | ? | 19:38 |
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| berndhs | they cant help you | 19:38 |
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| Stskeeps | DawnFoster1: that'll be a no, the bureaucracy seems worse than the polish post office :) | 20:04 |
| DawnFoster1 | Stskeeps: ha! | 20:04 |
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| Stskeeps | DawnFoster1: i think we need a guideline on how to create new channels, ie, remember to register the place :P | 20:07 |
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| DawnFoster1 | It should be in the IRC guidelines | 20:08 |
| DawnFoster1 | http://wiki.meego.com/IRC_guidelines | 20:08 |
| * Stskeeps looks | 20:08 | |
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| DawnFoster1 | Stskeeps: by "should be" I mean I already added it :) | 20:08 |
| DawnFoster1 | Stskeeps: feel free to add any steps I missed | 20:08 |
| Stskeeps | nop, seems correct | 20:09 |
| DawnFoster1 | cool, thanks | 20:09 |
| DawnFoster1 | now, getting people to follow it is a different challenge ... | 20:09 |
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| Stskeeps | well, if we have a guide for working in the meego way, that would be a good part of it :P | 20:10 |
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| Stskeeps | which reminds me i should spend some time on alice coding.. | 20:10 |
| * Stskeeps goes hacking | 20:11 | |
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| CosmoHill | I wonder, will meego phones be locked to network operators? | 21:28 |
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| Stskeeps | some, i guess | 21:30 |
| MohammadAG | Probably Harmattan more than MeeGo | 21:30 |
| MohammadAG | I'm assuming the initrd image has no bme -> no charging? | 21:30 |
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| Stskeeps | MohammadAG: pretty much yeah | 21:30 |
| CosmoHill | if it's linux, couldn't you just change it or flash is to it's unlocked? | 21:30 |
| MohammadAG | explains the IO error then... | 21:30 |
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| MohammadAG | Stskeeps, other than bme_rx51, is anything else needed? | 21:31 |
| Stskeeps | dsme, libcal.. | 21:31 |
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| Alison_Chaiken | Stskeeps and CosmoHill, since MeeGo is open source, carriers are free to offer locked phones using it. We would have no way of stopping them. | 21:39 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, well, it's just another business model | 21:40 |
| Stskeeps | freedom is freedom for everyone, including carriers :) | 21:40 |
| RST38h | Carriers' and users' definitions of "freedom" are mutually exclusive | 21:40 |
| RST38h | Guess which definition will become more widespread. | 21:41 |
| CosmoHill | If I were to get a MeeGo phone, as long as I didn't want to change carriers within a year I'd be fine | 21:41 |
| CosmoHill | but I've been told that non-carrier phones come with all the features since some carriers may want to remove some features | 21:42 |
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| Alison_Chaiken | I can't believe that there won't be locked MeeGo phones. Whether there will be unlocked ones in every market is a better question. I paid extra to have my phones unlocked. | 21:42 |
| Alison_Chaiken | Or CosmoHill, carriers may add annoying skins, as they have done with Android, not to mention any names. | 21:43 |
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| RST38h | As long as there will be *unlocked* Meego phones, I am happy though :) | 21:43 |
| CosmoHill | In the UK you pay to get your phone unlocked within a year, after a year they're legally required to unlock it for you for free | 21:44 |
| CosmoHill | In china on the other hand you're not allowed to sell locked phones | 21:44 |
| ali1234 | that's the sim lock though | 21:44 |
| ali1234 | after a year they have to unlock it for use on other networks, nothing more | 21:45 |
| lbt | unlocked != bootloader allows unsigned kernel | 21:45 |
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| ali1234 | exactly | 21:45 |
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| CosmoHill | hmm | 21:48 |
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| Stskeeps | kyb3R: meetbot/#meego-meeting is free for use in case you want to use it for mnf meeting | 22:09 |
| Stskeeps | ~haveameegomeeting | 22:09 |
| infobot | [haveameegomeeting] book at http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo-Meeting_IRC_Schedule , read http://wiki.meego.com/IRC_guidelines#IRC_Meeting_Guidelines and instructions for MeetBot at http://meetbot.debian.net/Manual.html | 22:09 |
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| npm | theodor (or anybody else who can answer): when will video recording and camera functionality be available for n900 handset? I want to run apps like http://doc.qt.nokia.com/qt-mobility-snapshot/declarative-camera-declarative-camera-qml.html http://doc.qt.nokia.com/qt-mobility-snapshot/declarative-camera-capturecontrols-qml.html http://doc.qt.nokia.com/qt-mobility-snapshot/declarative-camera-focusbutton-qml.html ??? | 22:11 |
| Stskeeps | npm: we're pretty much putting a camera stack into meego from the lowest kernel stuff, to gstreamer to qt mobility support :) | 22:11 |
| Stskeeps | npm: join the status meeting on thursday on #meego-meeting , we do team status'es there | 22:12 |
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| npm | any idea as to timeframe??? 1.2? a future release of 1.1? | 22:12 |
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| Stskeeps | 1.2 timeframe, afai | 22:13 |
| Stskeeps | k | 22:13 |
| Stskeeps | we aren't adding new features to 1.1 | 22:13 |
| npm | ah, that's good to know. | 22:13 |
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| npm | so right now, in 1.1 n900, i could record audio, but not video, correct? and in 1.2 n900, would i be able to record video, or just take photos | 22:14 |
| Stskeeps | that's what i'm hoping.. but let's see | 22:14 |
| npm | i'm asking because i'm trying to figure out how to break up the work for http://ytd-meego.googlecode.com | 22:14 |
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| npm | seems like i should work on the basic app framework, QML, youtube-direct and webby things (like the client side of http://code.google.com/intl/ja/apis/youtube/2.0/developers_guide_protocol_resumable_uploads.html for slow/flaky/wireless networks) | 22:16 |
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| MohammadAG | what port does the initrd ssh server run on? ssh: connect to host 192.168.2.15 port 22: Connection refused | 22:16 |
| npm | and then wait for 1.2++ to get the camera stuff going | 22:16 |
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| npm | Stskeeps: unfortunately, for the "webby stuff" i may need QtWebKit, which, as mentioned in #meego-arm, I'm having problems w/ compiling | 22:21 |
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| Stskeeps | right | 22:21 |
| Stskeeps | check if there's a bug | 22:21 |
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| MohammadAG | npm, I got problems with it too | 22:22 |
| MohammadAG | QWebview.h wasn't found | 22:23 |
| npm | ah | 22:23 |
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| npm | so what about dropping it into /usr/lib64/madde/linux-x86_64/sysroots/meego-core-armv7l-madde-sysroot-1.1-fs/usr/include/ as workaround? | 22:25 |
| kyb3R | Stskeeps: nice! | 22:25 |
| kyb3R | haven't used the bot before, so... | 22:25 |
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| Stskeeps | it's easy :) | 22:26 |
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| MohammadAG | npm, haven't tried it ;) | 22:28 |
| MohammadAG | currently N900-less, sort of, partitioning the eMMC to install MeeGo onto it, just hope the full battery doesn't run out cause of the backlight | 22:28 |
| MohammadAG | hmm, screen turned off, I'm assuming this is normal? :S | 22:29 |
| kyb3R | Stskeeps: errr...so I should hold our meeting at #meego-meeting? | 22:29 |
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| kyb3R | that's not a problem, just wondering how things should be done :) | 22:31 |
| Stskeeps | kyb3R: yes :) | 22:32 |
| Stskeeps | read the urls above | 22:32 |
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| kyb3R | Stskeeps: ok, and we get the logs and stuff? that would be awesome | 22:36 |
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| Stskeeps | yeah | 22:36 |
| kyb3R | now I just have to learn to use it :) | 22:36 |
| Stskeeps | check out TSG meeting minutes for example | 22:36 |
| kyb3R | i will | 22:36 |
| kyb3R | is the intention to hold all meetings there? I have probably missed some emails or something | 22:37 |
| kyb3R | regardles if regional or global | 22:37 |
| Stskeeps | it's a good thing to do it at least, keeps things central :) | 22:37 |
| Stskeeps | and shows project activity instead of being 'hid away' in irc channels | 22:38 |
| kyb3R | that's right | 22:38 |
| kyb3R | again I agree | 22:38 |
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| kyb3R | thanks for the info, you wiki changes lurking beast ;) | 22:38 |
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| Stskeeps | DawnFoster: while i doubt it's possible, it'd be good to have a rule that policy proposals should be posted on a public mailing list like a week before the tsg meeting in question :) | 23:51 |
| DawnFoster | Stskeeps: I would *love* to see that happen :) | 23:51 |
| MohammadAG | What's the red LED supposed to mean? | 23:51 |
| Stskeeps | MohammadAG: 1.2 is codename 'devil' | 23:51 |
| MohammadAG | low battery? | 23:51 |
| alterego | deeeeeeeeeeeeeath | 23:51 |
| Stskeeps | DawnFoster: yeah.. though i know things don't always work that way ;) | 23:51 |
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| DawnFoster | Stskeeps: "If I ran the zoo," said young Gerald McGrew. "I'd make a few changes, that's just what I'd do" :) | 23:52 |
| MohammadAG | Stskeeps, is the red LED really _that_ necessary? I don't see cupcakes with android devices ;) | 23:52 |
| MohammadAG | MeeGo running from the eMMC, it's damn fast! | 23:52 |
| Stskeeps | MohammadAG: we actually don't know why it turned red. | 23:52 |
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| Stskeeps | DawnFoster: hehe :) | 23:53 |
| * Stskeeps heads to sleep | 23:53 | |
| MohammadAG | Stskeeps, cause you're writing 255 to the red led node? | 23:53 |
| DawnFoster | night Stskeeps | 23:53 |
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| Stskeeps | MohammadAG: well yes, but orange rgb.. | 23:54 |
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| MohammadAG | shall I add this to the wiki? | 23:55 |
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