| kaushik | lbt: what should i use to build the sources locally? sorry for the delay | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| Myrtti | building on N900? | 00:01 |
| lbt | if you run "osc build" then it will download all the needed sources and dependencies and do a full compile | 00:01 |
| kaushik | lbt: do you have some document or wiki page on it? | 00:02 |
| lbt | hmm | 00:03 |
| lbt | http://wiki.meego.com/Build_Infrastructure/Packagers_Developers/Using_OBS_chroot_for_development | 00:03 |
| kaushik | ok thanks | 00:03 |
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| lbt | it's not great I'm afraid | 00:04 |
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| abstract3d | if i want to make a virtualbox for handsets environment, i should go with aava or n900 .img? | 00:08 |
| lbt | kaushik: here's one I wrote ages ago for debian packages... the 'flow' is the same http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Build/Application_Building | 00:08 |
| lbt | alterego: that ^^ link is what I had in mind for MeeGo | 00:08 |
| kaushik | Cool | 00:09 |
| kaushik | thanks | 00:09 |
| alterego | lbt: neat. | 00:09 |
| lbt | kaushik: and are you enabled on the community OBS ? | 00:09 |
| alterego | QML isn't really suited to a notes application | 00:09 |
| alterego | Maybe a todo or task list app would be better. | 00:09 |
| alterego | Though I guess netbook is a bit different. | 00:10 |
| kaushik | no .. I was about to ask that .. I am not enabled on the community obs. Let me clarify once again what I want to do. I have downloaded the rpm packages from meego. Now I need to build them locally without using community obs. | 00:10 |
| lbt | is this "just because that's what you want to do"? Or do you have a goal ? | 00:11 |
| mortenmj | lbt: there's no info in the wiki about using osc signkey to add a key for the meego repository. currently i have to use --no-verify. do you know how? | 00:11 |
| kaushik | I have a goal. | 00:11 |
| lbt | mortenmj: not off the top of my head | 00:12 |
| kaushik | I have to modify package and then build it. For the same i want to build all the rpm packages at once. | 00:12 |
| mortenmj | lbt: okay. what you said earlier about simply using "obs build" fails unless you've done that | 00:12 |
| lbt | osc build --no-verify ? | 00:12 |
| alterego | Asking some of the guys on Maemo, and they're all saying the same thing, we don't want to develop for MeeGo until it becomes usable on the N900 as a replacement for Maemo. | 00:13 |
| alterego | Which we all know already,. | 00:13 |
| alterego | So maybe promoting the use of the SDK. | 00:13 |
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| ali1234 | meego will never be a replacement for maemo imho | 00:13 |
| lbt | alterego: yeah. Well. | 00:13 |
| alterego | Rather than having people install handset on their precious devices, get them to write their apps and check them on MeeGo emu | 00:13 |
| mortenmj | lbt: yes, you need to use --no-verify unless you've added keys for the meego repository | 00:14 |
| mortenmj | er, meego project on obs, i suppose is what i'm trying to say | 00:14 |
| lbt | mortenmj: what OS? | 00:14 |
| alterego | Having fremantle as a target on OBS will be a good step in that direction | 00:14 |
| mortenmj | lbt: ubuntu | 00:14 |
| lbt | I think this is because at that point you're using ubuntu's rpm | 00:14 |
| mortenmj | lbt: sounds strange | 00:14 |
| * lbt never cared that much | 00:14 | |
| mortenmj | though it does fail for the rpm package. not sure if that's because it's special, or because it's the first in line | 00:15 |
| lbt | I haven't read all the code | 00:15 |
| lbt | it uses local tools to get and verify the packaes | 00:16 |
| mortenmj | ah | 00:16 |
| lbt | then it uses the local rpm to unpack into a chroot | 00:16 |
| lbt | then it chroots and runs the post-inst scripts | 00:16 |
| lbt | inside what is now a meego-ish environment | 00:16 |
| lbt | then it continues to use the meego rpm to install the remaining packagesd | 00:17 |
| lbt | so the initial --no-verify is probably at the local rpm level ..... you could fix it by importing the meego keys to the ubuntu rpm | 00:17 |
| * lbt is a debian guy so this rpm crap is just annoying ;) | 00:17 | |
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| ali1234 | ...if only rpm had a tool like debootstrap... | 00:18 |
| lbt | it does | 00:18 |
| ali1234 | so why isn't meego using it? | 00:19 |
| lbt | kiwi --prepare suse-11.2-JeOS --root $ROOTFS --add-profile xenFlavour --add-package less --add-package iputils --add-package kernel-xen --add-package wget --add-package less --add-package iputils --add-package terminfo --add-package emacs --add-package sudo | 00:19 |
| lbt | NHIH | 00:19 |
| lbt | they had 'mic' | 00:19 |
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| lbt | and the focus is images rather than rootfs's | 00:20 |
| Stskeeps | ali1234: yum can actually 'debootstrap' .. mkdir the rights dir + repos, initialize a rpm db with --root=/chroot, yum --installroot=/chroot install yourpackages | 00:20 |
| Stskeeps | and it uses host rpm/yum to do it | 00:20 |
| Stskeeps | bbl sleep | 00:20 |
| lbt | (but meego uses zypper) | 00:20 |
| * lbt hides | 00:20 | |
| alterego | Heh | 00:20 |
| ali1234 | but these tools have annoying habit of failing to work on arbitrary distros, unlike debootstrap which i have never seen fail even on the most whacked out environments | 00:20 |
| lbt | true... I suggest you port it | 00:21 |
| lbt | let me know when you need beta testers :) | 00:21 |
| ali1234 | port debootstrap to meego? sure, then you can install a real OS on your meego device in a chroot :) | 00:21 |
| lbt | oh, I do *that* already. | 00:22 |
| lbt | I guess doing it properly is too hard for you then? | 00:23 |
| ali1234 | properly? | 00:23 |
| alterego | Heh | 00:23 |
| lbt | yeah... making debootstrap work with rpms | 00:23 |
| lbt | would be really useful | 00:23 |
| ali1234 | what would be the point? | 00:23 |
| lbt | [22:18] <ali1234> ...if only rpm had a tool like debootstrap... | 00:23 |
| ali1234 | if only rpm had a tool like debootstrap... it still wouldn't be as good as debs | 00:24 |
| javispedro | that should be easy | 00:24 |
| javispedro | debootstrap only extracts all packages then delays running scripts to a second stage | 00:25 |
| lbt | ali1234: come on ... you can troll better than that | 00:25 |
| tripzero | lol | 00:25 |
| ali1234 | i know but it's getting late :) | 00:25 |
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| ali1234 | actually, why doesn't mic just have a static librpm or something? | 00:29 |
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| lbt | oh, there's a lot about mic that could be improved | 00:30 |
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| ali1234 | sure, but it would be nice if it at least behaved the same (with the same bugs) everywhere | 00:31 |
| ali1234 | consistent bugs can be worked around... | 00:31 |
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| tgall_foo | hmm does anyone know where the aegis-builder package comes from? not finding anything on meego.gitorious.org | 00:44 |
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| lbt | DawnFoster: http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Office/So_You_Want_To_Be_A_Task_Force if you want to add it to the CO page | 00:47 |
| Texrat | lol... love that title | 00:47 |
| lbt | hey Texrat | 00:47 |
| Texrat | hey lbt | 00:47 |
| * thiago_home shivers upon seeing aegis | 00:48 | |
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| Texrat | you're doing great work my man | 00:48 |
| lbt | thiago_home: what could possibly go wrong ? | 00:48 |
| lbt | Texrat: :) | 00:48 |
| berndhs | lbt: that's the community version of "great, send us the patch" ? | 00:48 |
| thiago_home | lbt: right | 00:48 |
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| pupnik | well wrtten lbt | 00:48 |
| lbt | berndhs: kinda ... we get volunteers but it's hard to get traction | 00:49 |
| MohammadAG | could someone help with the SDK installation? curl's failing to download the sysroot | 00:49 |
| thiago_home | I still need to watch ryan and elena's talks | 00:49 |
| * thiago_home checks if the videos are available now | 00:50 | |
| lbt | thiago_home: yeah.... missed them too | 00:50 |
| lbt | and somehow I didn't bump into you enough to even have a coffee :( | 00:50 |
| lbt | next time :) | 00:50 |
| thiago_home | videos available | 00:51 |
| thiago_home | loaded, will watch them tomorrow | 00:51 |
| lbt | night all o/ | 00:51 |
| thiago_home | gnight lbt | 00:52 |
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| DawnFoster | lbt: sweet - I'll take a look | 00:52 |
| DawnFoster | lbt: I was just overhauling the task lists on the CO page: http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Office | 00:53 |
| DawnFoster | lbt: I'll integrate the task force info | 00:53 |
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| lcuk | oi lbt_away i didn't drift off! i went stripping a thinkpad down to its component atoms | 01:23 |
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| berndhs | I think my ISP counts 53% packet loss as "up time" | 01:27 |
| odin_ | berndhs, are you Mr Stramm ? and did meet you first on Sunday afternoon at the SDK talk at the conf ? | 01:28 |
| berndhs | I'm Mr Stramm, but I wasn't at the conference | 01:29 |
| odin_ | ok a different Bernd | 01:29 |
| berndhs | probably yes | 01:30 |
| berndhs | a different Bernd Stramm would be unlikely though :) | 01:30 |
| odin_ | heh yes indeed, no I picked up your actual name from IPv6 research today, then though you maybe the same guy from conf | 01:31 |
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| berndhs | it seems strange that everyone is ignoring ipv6, IANA will run out of ipv4 before end of march | 01:36 |
| odin_ | yes indeed, you have added yourself to the bug, please comment to meego-dev | 01:37 |
| odin_ | but the IANA is not the end, since the last /8 go out, and APNIC will eat it first, followed by RIPE/ARIN | 01:37 |
| berndhs | oh sure | 01:38 |
| odin_ | so maybe upto 18 months before actual panic happens but most ISPs seem to have enough in reserve anyway | 01:38 |
| berndhs | but the top level will run out of ipv4 before meego releases 1.2 | 01:38 |
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| odin_ | toplevel ? | 01:38 |
| berndhs | and I would think meego wants to be ready top to bottom for ipv6 | 01:39 |
| odin_ | isn't all IP addresses space is allocated from LIR (Local Intenet Registries) for PI and PA | 01:39 |
| berndhs | top level = allocation to RIRs | 01:39 |
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| rumohr | in the presentation of the mobile simplified secrurity framework is mentioned "integrity protection ensures protection of tcb, apps and data".. what does TCB stand for? | 01:40 |
| odin_ | well a usual nothing is done enough there is panic, should be good for asian el-cheapo router manufacturers to push out a few generations of "IP6 support here" stickers | 01:41 |
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| irieKEN | Is there a more regularly updated Meego on N8x0 page than http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N8x0 | 01:44 |
| irieKEN | ? | 01:44 |
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| CosmoHill | probably not | 01:48 |
| kaushik | Need an access to online obs | 01:48 |
| berndhs | this is rough today, power failure, network keeps dropping | 01:48 |
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| irieKEN | Heh. | 01:49 |
| CosmoHill | berndhs: at least the coffee machine still works :) | 01:49 |
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| irieKEN | I've dug through the IRC logs, and it does seem like my trusty N810 will soon have to be retired. | 01:49 |
| berndhs | yeah the critical parts ar ok | 01:49 |
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| CosmoHill | berndhs: I'm hoping this wasn't me but around the time I was turning my plugs on and off for the cluster the power went out for some of the sockets | 01:53 |
| berndhs | I doubt your failure propagated over here :) | 01:53 |
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| odin_ | Hmm... might be nice if the favicon.ico for various Meego things could be tweaked slightly ? like bugs/repo/wiki/forums/meego.com, playing hunt that tab | 02:12 |
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| odin_ | actually obs is ok, even if its not the same icon as on the main page | 02:14 |
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| pupnik | the openpandora video running linux / openembedded shows how much more capable it is than android on a 256MB omap3 than is android http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZKGlg9Ur9k | 02:53 |
| pupnik | erp | 02:53 |
| pupnik | bad edit | 02:53 |
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| hlzxy | could someone tell me something about spec file ,like the role 'Source0' | 04:35 |
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| firegnu | write application for meego..should i use meegotouch framework or Qt? | 05:49 |
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| beford | I believe the prefered is MTF but I am not sure :D | 05:52 |
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| firegnu | But..wiki said we best use The qt...MTF will drop in future.. | 05:55 |
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| berndhs | derpends on when you want your app to start working, and how long it will be used for | 05:58 |
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| chuckgao | it seems like MTF like the Orbit , but i still hope it won't be cancel in the future | 06:17 |
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| ishta_paz | I think everything is moving to Qt now. Tool are better with the QT Meego SDK anyway | 06:23 |
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| chuckgao | any new features on Meego Qt? | 06:25 |
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| Jay_BEE | howdy | 06:26 |
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| Termana | morning | 06:28 |
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| firegnu | Orbit is dead..and i think MTF will dead in the future...All application build for meego will use Qt... am i correct? | 06:32 |
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| beford | where does it say that MTF will de dropped firegnu ? | 06:33 |
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| firegnu | http://meego.com/developers/meego-api | 06:35 |
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| firegnu | the platform api section | 06:35 |
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| haro_ | Does anybody build src.rpm packages using rpmbuild in Ubuntu 10.04, Do we have document/web link which describes setup procedure? | 07:10 |
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| gabrbedd | haro_: I created a "raw" meego image that I use as a chroot... and I build packages there. I don't there's any way around some manner of virtual/chroot environment. | 07:22 |
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| Jun | hallo | 08:26 |
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| Bostik | something odd going on in meego-sdk mailing list; I seem to get most(?) mails twice, in a span of maybe 5-6 minutes | 08:58 |
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| Myrtti | moin | 09:57 |
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| kermit` | Dear all, where can I download the last MeeGo qemu(kvm) image? | 10:23 |
| kermit` | I can't find it in the main page | 10:23 |
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| dm8tbr | kermit`: let me know when you find it :) | 10:32 |
| kermit` | Right now. | 10:32 |
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| kermit` | Is it the netbook img? | 10:32 |
| dm8tbr | netbook seems to have some problems with virtualization | 10:33 |
| dm8tbr | I didn't manage to get the UX up so far in vbox. abstract3d did though, but it was fumbly. | 10:33 |
| dm8tbr | on the qemu Image I tried back then in vbox it was quite straight forward | 10:33 |
| kermit` | Then which one should I use with kvm. My cpu is i5 core. | 10:34 |
| kermit` | I heard that can't be used in vbox. | 10:34 |
| dm8tbr | you might need to build one using mic2. that always works. | 10:34 |
| dm8tbr | does the wiki have anything? | 10:34 |
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| kermit` | Let me review it again. | 10:35 |
| dm8tbr | http://wiki.meego.com/Image_Creation mentions building an image for kvm/qemu | 10:36 |
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| kermit` | Oh, thanks | 10:36 |
| dm8tbr | question is which kickstart to use to get 1.1 (or in my case preferably some from the 1.2 branch) | 10:36 |
| pupnik_ | i've been kind of 'give me a downloadable meego for a VM' please | 10:36 |
| pupnik_ | mode | 10:36 |
| pupnik_ | since april | 10:36 |
| ivrubano | Hi! Does anyone know how to launch browser in application? | 10:36 |
| odin_ | ivrubano, using dbus ? | 10:37 |
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| odin_ | ivrubano, maemo did this: dbus-send --session --print-reply --dest=com.nokia.osso_browser /com/nokia/osso_browser/request com.nokia.osso_browser.load_url "string:http://foobar.com" | 10:38 |
| kermit` | ivrubano, use anything IPC like should do that. | 10:38 |
| dm8tbr | ah same page just lower. 'kickstart files' | 10:38 |
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| ivrubano | odin_: yes, but how? | 10:38 |
| Stskeeps | odin_: great initiative regarding ipv6 btw | 10:38 |
| dm8tbr | http://wiki.meego.com/Image_Creation#KickStart_Files_.28configuration_files_used_for_image_creation.29 | 10:38 |
| dm8tbr | ooooo, ipv6, where? | 10:38 |
| * dm8tbr is interested! | 10:38 | |
| odin_ | thanks Stskeeps | 10:38 |
| Stskeeps | odin_: if you want a proposal, set up a weekly meeting and get a team started | 10:39 |
| ivrubano | Am I rigth when I do QDBusMessage m = QDBusMessage::createMethodCall( "com.nokia.osso_browser", "/com/nokia/osso_browser/request", "com.nokia.osso_browser", "open_new_window"); | 10:39 |
| Stskeeps | odin_: and stage things in community obs | 10:39 |
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| dm8tbr | kermit`: how bout this: http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/trunk/1.1.80.9.20101207.1/netbook/images/meego-netbook-ia32-qemu/ | 10:40 |
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| odin_ | ivrubano, looks dbus on freedesktop.org (its an IPC mechanism), but the above was for maemo, I suspect its not correct for MeeGo but someone will know | 10:40 |
| * dm8tbr gets that image :D | 10:40 | |
| dm8tbr | odin_: ipv6? where? :) | 10:40 |
| ivrubano | odin_: unfortunately it doesn't work for meego | 10:41 |
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| odin_ | yes IPv6 I posted to meego-dev and created bug#10984 | 10:41 |
| MeeGoBot | Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10984 nor, Undecided, 1.2, darryl.miles, NEW, IPv6 Support declaration | 10:41 |
| Jun | My obs is just saying 'unresolable' for all builds, I guess this is because I missed some configuration for obs-worker,, can I get any advice?? | 10:41 |
| kermit` | Let me try, maybe it's just what I wanted. Thanks you, dm8tbr. | 10:41 |
| Bostik | oh, I read that mail and liked what I saw | 10:41 |
| odin_ | need to separate out the minimum deliverables for claiming MeeGo IPv6 support (like marketing bullet point) from all the, "would be nice to have features" I have put up there | 10:42 |
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| odin_ | speaking of community OBS how do I see MeeGo core stuff, like kernel source ? as the projects are all empty and buug#615 is not yet resolved | 10:45 |
| odin_ | ha fooled the bot :) | 10:45 |
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| Stskeeps | odin_: it seems like the authorative way is (honestly) to extract srpm | 10:51 |
| Stskeeps | odin_: the gitorious kernel tree is broken | 10:51 |
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| Jaffa | Morning, all | 10:59 |
| CosmoHill | bleh | 10:59 |
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| dm8tbr | odin_: thanks will look at it. ipv6 is one of my private favourites :) | 11:02 |
| Termana | morning Jaffa and CosmoHill | 11:02 |
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| CosmoHill | hi | 11:03 |
| CosmoHill | my laptop went to sleep and killed my server connection :( | 11:03 |
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| * timeless_webchat grumbles | 11:06 | |
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| timeless_webchat | the daily meego repository is a moving target! | 11:06 |
| Stskeeps | yes it is, djuh | 11:06 |
| Stskeeps | duh | 11:06 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 11:06 |
| odin_ | welcome to open source | 11:07 |
| timeless_webchat | odin_: err, closed source has this same annoying feature :) | 11:07 |
| phellarv | timeless_webchat: Welcome to source! | 11:07 |
| timeless_webchat | phellarv++ | 11:07 |
| jarkko^ | we got fun 'n' games? | 11:07 |
| * timeless_webchat prefers faun and games | 11:08 | |
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| timeless_webchat | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faun_%26_Games | 11:08 |
| timeless_webchat | iirc i have it on my bookshelf behind me | 11:08 |
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| timeless_webchat | DawnFoster: so, one thing about irc stats, you probably want to add support for aliases. some people are silly and collect a bunch | 11:09 |
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| timeless_webchat | e.g. ab[out] | 11:09 |
| timeless_webchat | or well... me :) | 11:09 |
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| odin_ | like the most lines per month ? ;-) | 11:09 |
| timeless_webchat | odin_: did you see DawnFoster 's presentation @meego conf? | 11:09 |
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| timeless_webchat | (or have you seen her monthly reports?) | 11:10 |
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| odin_ | I was not there no, but have seen the first couple of reports (from summer time) | 11:10 |
| Stskeeps | timeless_webchat: could you file a bug against me on that issue? | 11:10 |
| * Stskeeps has that task in metrics | 11:10 | |
| timeless_webchat | yeah | 11:10 |
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| timeless_webchat | um | 11:11 |
| timeless_webchat | maybe? | 11:11 |
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| * timeless_webchat tries to remember the magic incantation required to be logged into bugs.meego.com | 11:11 | |
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| timeless_webchat | ok, i give up, what's the magic incantation? | 11:12 |
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| odin_ | oingy-boingy ? | 11:12 |
| timeless_webchat | not working! | 11:13 |
| CosmoHill | timeless_webchat: should be the same as your meego account | 11:13 |
| odin_ | sorry just trying to keep my IRC line count up with yours | 11:13 |
| CosmoHill | try using your email instead of your username | 11:13 |
| timeless_webchat | CosmoHill: oh sure, like i know my password ... | 11:13 |
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| odin_ | bugs.meego.com is the same as meego.com for me, so can you do password recovery on either ? | 11:14 |
| * timeless_webchat launches KeyChain Access.app | 11:14 | |
| CosmoHill | simple, get the password out of the firefox password bank | 11:14 |
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| CosmoHill | or that | 11:14 |
| timeless_webchat | grr | 11:14 |
| timeless_webchat | chrome did know my password, it's just anal about me properly guessing my username first | 11:15 |
| timeless_webchat | Stskeeps: ok, so um, what product/component is this? | 11:15 |
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| Stskeeps | meego community infrastructure maybe | 11:16 |
| Stskeeps | brb | 11:16 |
| timeless_webchat | that's a classification | 11:17 |
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| Jaffa | Stskeeps: Is there a good page on ARM hardfp for MeeGo on the wiki? Google can't find it, nor where the TSG meeting minutes are. | 11:18 |
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| Stskeeps | Jaffa: http://wiki.meego.com/SDK/Toolchains/ToolchainChangeProposal | 11:19 |
| Stskeeps | it really could need some more elaboration but ask me anything | 11:19 |
| Stskeeps | (as i sit with the baseline for that port) | 11:19 |
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| timeless_webchat | Bug 11034 Submitted | 11:20 |
| Jaffa | Stskeeps: Is Harmattan hardfp; or is that based on the MeeGo 1.2 decision? | 11:21 |
| MeeGoBot | Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=11034 enh, Undecided, ---, carsten, NEW, irc stats needs to handle users with multiple nicks | 11:21 |
| CosmoHill | bug 606 | 11:21 |
| MeeGoBot | Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=606 maj, Medium, 1.0, michael.meeks, VERI FIXED, Pkcon can not resolve package name when using zypp as its back end | 11:21 |
| CosmoHill | cool | 11:21 |
| Stskeeps | Jaffa: http://marc.info/?l=meego-dev&m=128819047131135 | 11:21 |
| Stskeeps | pretty much states harmattan is hardfp, so | 11:22 |
| Jaffa | Yup - that's what I was remembering, but couldn't find that mail. Ta muchly. | 11:22 |
| * timeless_webchat wonders where irc stats lives these days | 11:22 | |
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| Jaffa | Stskeeps: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=892169#post892169 ta. | 11:23 |
| Stskeeps | Jaffa: we have checked however that it's possible to chroot to a hardfp target from softfp, though | 11:23 |
| Stskeeps | kernel abi doesn't change, so | 11:24 |
| timeless_webchat | Stskeeps: ooh, you can do this in time for http://stskeeps.subnetmask.net/irc/data/irssistats.nov.html :) | 11:24 |
| Jaffa | Stskeeps: Intriguing. Is there any impact on IPC (e.g. talking to X)? | 11:24 |
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| Stskeeps | Jaffa: i haven't tried, but i wouldn't think so | 11:25 |
| Stskeeps | Jaffa: it's just on procedure call level, afaik | 11:25 |
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| Stskeeps | ie, pass floating point values in fpu registers instead of integer registers | 11:26 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 11:26 |
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| timeless_webchat | jaffa: the change was important enough that the idiots @nokia were willing to leave the browser broken for a month | 11:26 |
| timeless_webchat | (the browser being one of the few apps that actually worked before the change) | 11:26 |
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| timeless_webchat | hrm, so 5 threads for downloads is a bad idea on this computer | 11:28 |
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| phellarv | Stskeeps: Where did I find the weekly test-reports again? | 11:34 |
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| Stskeeps | phellarv: qa-reports.meego.com | 11:35 |
| phellarv | Stskeeps: Thanks | 11:35 |
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| timeless_webchat | wow, that's depressing | 11:40 |
| timeless_webchat | i have man lsof | 11:40 |
| timeless_webchat | i don't have lsof | 11:41 |
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| timeless_webchat | Stskeeps: where do bugs about the lack of x-axis ticks in http://qa-reports.meego.com/1.2/Handset/Acceptance/N900 go? | 11:42 |
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| Stskeeps | ticks? | 11:43 |
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| timeless_webchat | http://www.google.com/search?q=x-axis+ticks | 11:44 |
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| * timeless_webchat considers http://bugs.meego.com/enter_bug.cgi?product=MeeGo%20QA%20Test%20Suite | 11:45 | |
| lcuk | morning \o | 11:45 |
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| timeless_webchat | err, why the heck can't i log into qa-reports.m.c using my standard meego credentials? | 11:46 |
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| * CosmoHill wonders why his mac won't spool the next print job until the previous one has finished printing | 11:50 | |
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| timeless_webchat | CosmoHill: apple driver or third party? | 11:52 |
| CosmoHill | guten print | 11:53 |
| CosmoHill | the offical canon driver doens't do cups apparantly | 11:53 |
| timeless_webchat | Bug 11037 has been added to the database | 11:54 |
| MeeGoBot | Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=11037 nor, Undecided, ---, jerry.yu, NEW, Please spell MeeGo with a capital G | 11:54 |
| * timeless_webchat shakes head | 11:54 | |
| CosmoHill | really, that's a bug? | 11:54 |
| CosmoHill | I'm assuming he's talking about official pages and documents | 11:55 |
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| CosmoHill | cos apart from Is, he'll be lucky to get any capitals out of me | 11:55 |
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| timeless_webchat | Stskeeps: ping | 12:23 |
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| * timeless_webchat can't remember how this bundle of code worked | 12:24 | |
| timeless_webchat | anyone here familiar w/ src.rpm and have time to hold my hand? :) | 12:24 |
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| abstract3d | is it safe to have, Linux Host, Developer Environment inside vbox (example Ubuntu), and qemu running inside ubuntu? | 12:28 |
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| lcuk | hey vgrade_ lardman \o | 12:29 |
| vgrade_ | morning | 12:29 |
| lcuk | abstract3d, define "safe" | 12:29 |
| abstract3d | safe, like... "is it same as running ubuntu as host os"? | 12:30 |
| abstract3d | fully funcinal? | 12:30 |
| lcuk | vgrade_, did you ever try to do anything to get the nokia booklet running (its got same HW as the joggler afaik) | 12:30 |
| timeless_webchat | abstract3d: it won't be as fast as metal | 12:30 |
| timeless_webchat | but it should work | 12:30 |
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| dm8tbr | abstract3d: some people claim that doesn't work | 12:31 |
| timeless_webchat | lcuk: so, how's your RPM FU? | 12:31 |
| * timeless_webchat has used vbox w/ mer and maemo scratchbox | 12:31 | |
| vgrade_ | lcuk, booklet was running at one point with the EMGD drivers which were released by mistake. Should work with the official EMGD drivers on 1.0. 1.1 support is promised for early Q1 11 but we will proably be near 1.2 by then. EMGD needs to be brought into line with MeeGo Xorg | 12:33 |
| lcuk | timeless_webchat, about as strong as my unicycle riding foo. i can use it to search and install stuff and add repos etc but nothing technical | 12:33 |
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| * timeless_webchat sighs | 12:34 | |
| * timeless_webchat kicks something | 12:34 | |
| lcuk | roger, thanks vgrade_ - would it be possible to write that up that cleanly and give specific links to download locations? | 12:35 |
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| dm8tbr | odin_: just a brief check if I misunderstood things: priority 4over6 - what is that supposed to mean? | 12:37 |
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| vgrade_ | lcuk, I have some notes here, http://wiki.meego.com/User:Vgrade | 12:37 |
| lcuk | vgrade_, thats a great start, thanks! | 12:37 |
| odin_ | yes if DNS records are available for both A and AAAA then have applications prefer one over the other | 12:37 |
| vgrade_ | lcuk, download locations are a bit of an issue as we cannot redistribute the EMGD | 12:37 |
| lardman | hi lcuk | 12:37 |
| lcuk | vgrade_, thats a different bridge, knowing its at least feasible (with roadblocks) is better than thinking its not at all. | 12:38 |
| odin_ | this could be simulated via a conman proxy fudge, i.e. query both but only return A to application, or could be some tweak to runtime environment (like Qt network connectivity) | 12:38 |
| odin_ | it could also be done via ordering the reply data to user-space, gethostbyname() ? | 12:39 |
| odin_ | anyhows that kind of thing | 12:39 |
| vgrade_ | lcuk, if anyone want to donate a booklet to me I will see what we can do with 1.0, 1.1 and trunk by downgrading the xserver | 12:40 |
| dm8tbr | odin_: yes, but which one should be preferred in your view | 12:40 |
| lcuk | let me find out for you vgrade_ :) | 12:41 |
| odin_ | well that is to be discussed/considered and looked into :P i.e. pros/cons and amount of effort, I prefer the idea of no need to modify an application, it should just do the natural thing and interate the glibc returned data in the order given | 12:41 |
| odin_ | unless of course, that specific application has been configured in some special way to override (but that is upto application/user arrangement) | 12:42 |
| odin_ | and therefore outside the scope of "meego system" | 12:42 |
| timeless_webchat | odin_ =~ s/interate/iterate/ | 12:42 |
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| odin_ | yeah sorry too much programming | 12:43 |
| timeless_webchat | too much calculus =? | 12:43 |
| odin_ | nop | 12:44 |
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| lcuk | lardman, belated pong! are you in winddown mode now, semi holidays and all that? :D | 12:48 |
| lardman | nah, just thought I'd take a few days off this week as I'm knackered | 12:51 |
| lcuk | that doesn't sound like a bad idea | 12:51 |
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| dm8tbr | odin_: I'm asking because preference of ipv4 over ipv6 would be considered broken. if a vendor does that in their own build. their problem. meego as a distribution should not even consider this slippery slope | 12:58 |
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| odin_ | its more a user-set preference to work around broken IPv6 connectivity zones | 12:59 |
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| odin_ | does conman and whatever already do automatic location detection... i.e. from available WLANs, GPS, location services, whatever, to then switch over connectivity profiles? it doesn't seem to lock onto hidden WLAN like Maemo5 N900 does, from my testing so far | 13:02 |
| lcuk | DawnFoster, ping me later please :) (after you get in work of course) | 13:08 |
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| * timeless_webchat sighs | 13:11 | |
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| abstract3d | xephyr is the way to emulate UI without intel graphics @host & GL accell? | 13:17 |
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| lokesh | wats the i686 reference device used in Intel for Meego ? | 13:36 |
| odin_ | lbt_away, is {api,build}.opensuse.org due to continue to run off the same IP address ? i.e. can each SSL service not be on a unique IP and also is there a ticket in to fix the reverse IP address ? alternately issue yourself a multi-domain SSL cert with your own CA and public the CA in meego package | 13:36 |
| lcuk | lokesh, I would hazard the lenovo s10-3t ideapad that was given to meegoconf participants | 13:38 |
| odin_ | Duh I mean {api,build}.pub.meego.com | 13:38 |
| X-Fade | odin_: You can run build and api on different ips, but why would you want that? | 13:38 |
| lokesh | lcuk : I am talking about the handset reference device :) | 13:39 |
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| lcuk | the only x86 handset seen has been the aava I believe | 13:39 |
| lokesh | lcuk : ok | 13:40 |
| odin_ | X-Fade, so HTTPS works like it should, with Common Name X.509 validation and reverse DNS check | 13:40 |
| X-Fade | odin_: Cert Alternative names work fine? | 13:40 |
| odin_ | CA = Certificate Authority (you issue your toplevel self-signed X.509 cert, then just get all SDK users to install it as a package where 'osc' will see it) | 13:41 |
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| X-Fade | odin_: I don't understand the problem? Which app doesn't accept our SSL cert? | 13:42 |
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| odin_ | X-Fade, the HTTPS service is not setup correctly (IMHO) | 13:42 |
| X-Fade | odin_: Again, which app complains about it :) | 13:42 |
| odin_ | for me, osc for a start | 13:42 |
| odin_ | wget | 13:43 |
| X-Fade | odin_: Which os? | 13:43 |
| odin_ | the defacto standard is 1 unique IP per HTTPS service, with forward and reverse DNS setup to the Common Name in the certificate | 13:43 |
| odin_ | MeeGo 1.1.1 | 13:43 |
| odin_ | if you use a godaddy.com cert (and pay someone else) or issue your own CA, that point doesn't matter if the above condition is not met, but can cut down someones costs | 13:45 |
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| odin_ | there are/where moves to allow HTTPS virtual hosts but its like IPv6, no one can be bothered to do it, there are also multi-domain certs for mega-bucks when another IP is cheaper, so the defacto standard above still stands for best interoperability | 13:50 |
| timeless_webchat | odin_: https vhosting is deployed.. | 13:50 |
| odin_ | i.e. web-browsers have support but I wouldn't expect the same of HTTPS client libraries for tooling | 13:50 |
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| odin_ | timeless_webchat, yes and IPv6 is :) | 13:51 |
| * timeless_webchat ponders | 13:51 | |
| * timeless_webchat thinks vhosting is probably better deployed than ipv6 | 13:51 | |
| odin_ | when a web-browser is your only client I agree, but its not for OBS API webserver | 13:52 |
| timeless_webchat | file a bug | 13:52 |
| abstract3d | xephyr is the way to emulate UI without intel graphics @host & GL accell? | 13:52 |
| sp3000 | timeless_webchat: @wk? | 13:56 |
| timeless_webchat | running late | 13:57 |
| timeless_webchat | you? | 13:57 |
| sp3000 | around kamppi | 13:58 |
| sp3000 | pizza? | 13:58 |
| timeless_webchat | hrm | 13:58 |
| timeless_webchat | indian buffet? | 13:58 |
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| timeless_webchat | pizza hut | 13:58 |
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| timeless_webchat | yeah, pizza hut | 13:58 |
| sp3000 | k | 13:58 |
| timeless_webchat | lardman: this is just in time scheduling =) | 13:59 |
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| * sp3000 is there in 3 | 13:59 | |
| timeless_webchat | and it support pizza-preemption | 13:59 |
| timeless_webchat | in 5 | 13:59 |
| pupnik | pizza. nature's perfect food. | 14:00 |
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| pupnik | so we had another person crash and burn today trying to get meego running in a VM | 14:01 |
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| abstract3d | pupnik: meego is running in VM, but it's a bit slow | 14:05 |
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| pupnik | abstract3d: from what i've seen the performance is adequate for development and testing | 14:08 |
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| pupnik | however a person new to meego, wanting to try it out, currently isn't going to find a nice working downloadable vm image with getting started instructions | 14:09 |
| pupnik | getting to that point should be a priority | 14:09 |
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| X-Fade | odin_: I just checked on my meego netbook. But both wget and osc don't complain about https. | 14:17 |
| odin_ | wget https://api.pub.meego.com/build/MeeGo:1.1:Core/standard/i586/_repository/rpm ? | 14:19 |
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| X-Fade | odin_: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=409938 | 14:21 |
| X-Fade | odin_: That basically is a bug in wget which got fixed. But wget guys don't like doing releases it seems :) | 14:22 |
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| odin_ | Hmm ok but the point being made is why make things harder than things need to be, i.e. if it was a commercial setup I'd not have entertained the use virtual IPs for HTTPS myself, as I would have thought maximum interoperability being a useful goal | 14:23 |
| odin_ | now we need to go and fix every app, and wait for releases :) yay for open source | 14:24 |
| X-Fade | odin_: Yes, of course. But this is a pretty valid setup. Browsers don't complain for example. | 14:24 |
| X-Fade | odin_: Since 1990 or so :) | 14:24 |
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| odin_ | hmm more like ~2003 I'd say | 14:24 |
| X-Fade | Well yeah, ok.. But anyway. | 14:25 |
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| fregl | thp: ping | 14:40 |
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| lcuk | Stskeeps, so OBS builds the package from source to binary, then uses that binary and compares it against previous binary to identify if it needs to be built? | 15:08 |
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| Stskeeps | lcuk: no, if it is different from the previous build | 15:08 |
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| lcuk | Stskeeps, but it has to be built to know if its different | 15:08 |
| lcuk | surely? | 15:09 |
| Stskeeps | yes | 15:09 |
| lcuk | or just compare source code itself .. which both cases old and new should have macros and not actual dates | 15:09 |
| Stskeeps | but the big load is if you have a package and the packages that depend on your packages has to rebuilt | 15:09 |
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| odin_ | hmm... OBS knows when you have made a commit on your package and when one of its dependencies has been built into a new version | 15:10 |
| tybollt | will the pkg's themselves be in format .rpm? | 15:11 |
| odin_ | no a collection of arbitrary files, usually at least one *.spec | 15:11 |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, i understand the point about rebuilding descendent packages if main one changes, but to have to build main one and compare binary seems a bit silly when its the source code changes that matter? | 15:11 |
| odin_ | but also deb/kiwi and other formats | 15:11 |
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| Stskeeps | lcuk: your resulting binary can change if the packages you dep on change | 15:12 |
| odin_ | compare output binaries, I guess that only make sense to work out if there was a real affecting change and to bump the 'build number' (is that the name for is? 1.2.3-X) ? | 15:13 |
| lcuk | sure, a cascade but the same logic is in place for all of the packages in obs isnt it? | 15:13 |
| lcuk | a great big dependency tree | 15:13 |
| lcuk | i fail to see why it has to spend time building the package itself to compare binary to binary | 15:14 |
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| odin_ | bootstrap changes ? stabilising gcc/binutils and such, as well as trying not to bump the revision/build-number unnecessary ? | 15:15 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: it has to check if it's changed, because then it needs to trigger additional rebuilds of other packages | 15:15 |
| lcuk | odin_, same dependency chain surely? | 15:15 |
| odin_ | there are 2 issues here... 1) what kicks off a build and 2) what makes that build a new revision 1.2.3-X bump | 15:16 |
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| odin_ | Issue 1: OBS knows when you have made a commit on your package and when one of its dependencies has been built into a new version | 15:16 |
| Jaffa | This sounds similar to what we're doing at work with Ivy, our build system and JAR checksums. | 15:17 |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, surely OBS does not rebuild (for instance) entire Qt just because I ask it to rebuild my package depending upon it | 15:17 |
| odin_ | Issue 2: Compare the output binaries to see if the result is different from the last published version | 15:17 |
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| Stskeeps | lcuk: no, it's reverse | 15:18 |
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| lcuk | Stskeeps, ? | 15:19 |
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| odin_ | actually is it an "output binaries" compare, was in executables or a complete RPM compare (which makes sense, as a documentation change should also bump the version) | 15:20 |
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| * Stskeeps submits his idea about alice@meego.com | 15:22 | |
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| Stskeeps | http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-community/2010-December/002787.html | 15:23 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: But if Qt uses random things inside the binary which change each build; you get a new version number and everything spinning | 15:23 |
| Jaffa | Stskeeps: We had this because Groovy .class files have a random timestamp in them (which Java .class files don't). We ended up making our comparator explicitly ignore them in the structure of a parsed .class file; but it was hacky. Not sure you can do something similar for __DATE__ and __TIME__ *post* build. | 15:24 |
| Stskeeps | Jaffa: yeah, that's what i'm worried about.. | 15:25 |
| Jaffa | Stskeeps: Similarly, you can't replace all __DATE__ and __TIME__ usages (or redefine the macros) because there *might*(?) be a valid case which does have a material effect. | 15:25 |
| Jaffa | Stskeeps: Not necessarily optimal code, admittedly; but meaningful in some way. | 15:26 |
| Stskeeps | Jaffa: i've seen it used as initial vector for security.. | 15:26 |
| * Jaffa nods. That kind of thing. | 15:26 | |
| Jaffa | Not sure it's great, to be honest from a security PoV; but gives some kind of initial value | 15:26 |
| * Jaffa would suggest coding standard which suggests they aren't used and starting to patch away the ones which do so trivially/incorrectly. | 15:27 | |
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| lcuk | Jaffa, strictly, comparing build binaries is only necessary if there were no way to have computers track dependency graphs | 15:27 |
| lcuk | and if computers cannot be used to track trees of things then WTF are we doing here | 15:27 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: No - because you don't want to respin your child projects if there's no material change in the output. | 15:27 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: The point is that there *is* a tracked dependency graph, but you don't want to do unnecessary work (bumps version numbers, takes time, increases risk, uses resources) | 15:28 |
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| ali1234 | lcuk: the point of comparing binaries is not to catch changes which are missed by the dependency graphs but to filter out trivial changes which would otherwise cause unnecessary rebuilds | 15:30 |
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| Jaffa | What he said. | 15:30 |
| odin_ | ... unnecessary rebuilds due to version bumps.... with the unnecessary rebuilds being those packages based on this package ? | 15:30 |
| Jaffa | odin_: Correct | 15:31 |
| ali1234 | dependent on, yes | 15:31 |
| odin_ | but a documentation change should also cause a version bump (i.e. the term "compare binaries" sounds too narrow) | 15:31 |
| Jaffa | odin_: i.e. if someone changes the Qt documentation; that might result in a publishing of a new website, but shouldn't cause a rebuild of myqtapp | 15:31 |
| Jaffa | odin_: Depends on the change | 15:32 |
| Jaffa | odin_: Documentation with an additional fullstop or spelling correction is still valid and hasn't (if the docs are only published on docs.meego.com, say) resulted in any packagaing changes. | 15:32 |
| odin_ | I'm claiming I don't see why it should, what you a really trying to cut down, is the ripple effect of binary changes (which are most changes seen), maybe it would be a major issue if documentation was generated at built time | 15:33 |
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| ali1234 | documentation is just once such example | 15:33 |
| Jaffa | odin_: Indeed, that is the aim. | 15:33 |
| ali1234 | the real question is how do you know which files are used by dependent packages? | 15:34 |
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| Jaffa | (AIUI, and is certainly the reason we do it at work) | 15:34 |
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| Jaffa | ali1234: What we do is compare the checksum of every file in the JAR - well, we produce a checksum for the JAR contents as a whole | 15:34 |
| Jaffa | Excluding certain things, which is relatively straightforward as we're the upstream and control the set of packages (and structure and build system) | 15:35 |
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| ali1234 | ok, but with the Qt example, what if there is a package which uses the documentation in some way, such that it has to be rebuilt if the doc changes? | 15:35 |
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| Jaffa | ali1234: Presumably in that case it's depending on libqt-doc or something; and the Qt documentation is a published package in its own right. | 15:36 |
| Jaffa | ali1234: Or it's a "binary artefact" of the build. | 15:36 |
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| Jaffa | i.e. in the binary package | 15:37 |
| ali1234 | a better example that docs is eg whitespace cleanup patches | 15:37 |
| ali1234 | that shouldn't affect the output at all and should not trigger rebuilds | 15:38 |
| Jaffa | ali1234: Yes, a perfect example. | 15:38 |
| Jaffa | ali1234: Tidying source formatting in a non-binary affecting way should be encouraged to prevent broken window syndrome | 15:38 |
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| sivang | anybody knows if aava is being sold? | 16:10 |
| sivang | or released, already? | 16:10 |
| Myrtti | I thought it's been out for a considerable time | 16:11 |
| Myrtti | with that ~1700USD pricetag | 16:11 |
| sivang | 1700USD wow | 16:11 |
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| Macer | damn | 16:13 |
| Macer | that's high | 16:13 |
| Macer | is the hw really that open ? :) | 16:13 |
| Macer | maybe nokia will open up the n900 wide open | 16:14 |
| Macer | so people could actually do something with it | 16:14 |
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| ali1234 | what parts of the n900 are still closed? | 16:15 |
| Bostik | 3D chip interface? | 16:16 |
| Venemo_N900 | ali1234: for Maemo or MeeGo? | 16:16 |
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| ali1234 | for the hardware | 16:16 |
| Venemo_N900 | ali1234: the graphics chip driver and some firmware are closed, ask Stskeeps for details | 16:17 |
| ali1234 | 3d is not nokias to open up | 16:17 |
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| Venemo_N900 | true | 16:19 |
| alterego | bme, sgx, firmware | 16:19 |
| alterego | for bt and wlan | 16:19 |
| alterego | There was one more thing, can't remember what it is .. | 16:19 |
| Venemo_N900 | camera? | 16:19 |
| Venemo_N900 | or fmtx? | 16:19 |
| alterego | No | 16:19 |
| Bostik | charging circuitry? | 16:19 |
| Venemo_N900 | Bostik: that's bme | 16:20 |
| alterego | bme is the charging management bit. | 16:20 |
| Bostik | ah, thank you | 16:20 |
| alterego | You're better off asking Stskeeps he knows it off by heart :D | 16:20 |
| odin_ | X-Fade, are all the MeeGo:* projects on cbuild meant to be empty? or is that some ACL thingy ? | 16:20 |
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| * odin_ grumbles at the channel churn | 17:03 | |
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| lbt | http://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=11053 | 17:10 |
| lbt | mmm no bot... "Extras and Garage need an agreed name" | 17:11 |
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| GAN900 | What's wrong with "Extras"? | 17:13 |
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| andre__ | well, what's wrong with "Garage"? :-P | 17:16 |
| Stskeeps | reminds me of garage.maemo.org with it's 90's forge | 17:17 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 17:17 |
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| fiferboy | What is "Garage" supposed to mean in this context? | 17:22 |
| fiferboy | It brings to mind things that are being worked on and fixed up, but not ready for real use | 17:22 |
| fiferboy | Maybe that is intended? | 17:22 |
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| leinir | fiferboy: garage music - stuff you knocked up in your shed ;) | 17:29 |
| Stskeeps | MeeGo Shed | 17:29 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 17:29 |
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| leinir | Tehee, yeah :) | 17:31 |
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| leinir | i do kinda like that idea - but it might be a little bit overly English in nature... | 17:32 |
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| GAN900 | MeeGo Bikeshed? | 17:39 |
| lcuk | GAN900, shouldn't it be a cyclehut? | 17:41 |
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| GAN900 | lcuk, no, green! | 17:44 |
| odin_ | MeeGo Den ? | 17:44 |
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| dneary | lbt, Ping? | 17:49 |
| lbt | dneary: pong | 17:49 |
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| odin_ | lbt, help... why is this empty ? https://build.pub.meego.com/project/show?project=MeeGo%3A1.1%3ACore re: http://www.pastie.org/1358931 | 17:55 |
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| Stskeeps | odin_: binary rpm imports | 17:58 |
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| lbt | odin_: it's not actually empty | 18:00 |
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| Jaffa | lbt: Can I just say "Extras" and move on? ;-) | 18:06 |
| lbt | hehe | 18:07 |
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| GAN900 | Seriously, though, what's wrong with Extras? | 18:09 |
| Jaffa | lbt: It's "extra" stuff. "Garage" has to be explained and is a legacy of Moblin being a hacker's paradise (AIUI) | 18:10 |
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| lbt | well, we've got Extras in the OBS currently | 18:10 |
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| CosmoHill | hey lbt | 18:12 |
| lbt | o/ | 18:12 |
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| CosmoHill | I think if I work hard I should be able to get one assignment done by tonight | 18:13 |
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| * timeless_webchat needs help | 18:19 | |
| timeless_webchat | anyone here vaguely familiar w/ IETF? | 18:19 |
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| CosmoHill | I swear ms word hates me sometimes | 18:39 |
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| Rene_gs | lbt: halo, a couple days ago I request to join into OBS for "renegonzalezsalinas" account | 19:20 |
| Rene_gs | do you have any update? | 19:20 |
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| Texrat | is this the party? | 19:21 |
| lbt | done I think | 19:21 |
| Rene_gs | well I'm not able to login https://build.pub.meego.com/; | 19:21 |
| Texrat | hmmm... if lbt is here then it's work, not a party :p | 19:22 |
| Stskeeps | lo texrat | 19:22 |
| Texrat | lo Stskeeps | 19:22 |
| Stskeeps | how is it going? | 19:22 |
| Texrat | didn't feel like goign to work today, still getting over flu | 19:22 |
| lbt | Rene_gs: ok ... busy now... ping me in 60m | 19:22 |
| odin_ | yay party! | 19:22 |
| Texrat | so working on MeeGo policy and process stuff | 19:22 |
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| Rene_gs | I'm in now | 19:23 |
| Rene_gs | thanks guys, BR. | 19:23 |
| Texrat | wearing out the wiki today! :D | 19:23 |
| lbt | Rene_gs: good :) | 19:24 |
| Texrat | so, sorry for all the update notices some of you are getting | 19:24 |
| Texrat | and Ststkeeps: we need to elevate visibility of your best practices page | 19:24 |
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| Stskeeps | Texrat: feel free to do whatever you want with it | 19:25 |
| Stskeeps | Texrat: give me some feedback on my Alice idea in return ;) | 19:25 |
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| Texrat | Stskeeps I am still pondering the alice thing, making sure I fully understand | 19:26 |
| Texrat | is alice a proxy? | 19:26 |
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| Stskeeps | Texrat: alice's deep down a mailbox that everyone CC's.. on top of that you layer analysis and allow people to search/subcribe | 19:26 |
| Stskeeps | subscribe | 19:26 |
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| berndhs | alice is a special data mining bot | 19:26 |
| Texrat | ah! thanks berndhs | 19:27 |
| Texrat | that sums it up well | 19:27 |
| berndhs | to get stats on who mails to whom (correct my grammar) | 19:27 |
| Stskeeps | Texrat: because there will always be discussions away from mailing lists, but how do we make those processes/discussions transparent | 19:27 |
| Texrat | I agree there's a big need Stskeeps | 19:27 |
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| Texrat | next step: figure out best way of poking people to take action... | 19:28 |
| berndhs | so I think but adding alice to the CC, you would say " record these connections " or something | 19:28 |
| Texrat | so many wanting, so few stepping up... | 19:28 |
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| Stskeeps | Texrat: well, the 'good' thing about alice is that technically, it can start tomorrow provided we have a mail alias saving the things getting sent to it :P | 19:29 |
| Texrat | but I think one conclusion from meeting brainstorm was dead-on: many just need to know they CAN | 19:29 |
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| berndhs | Stskeeps: alice just keeps the addresses, doesn't do anything with content, is that correct ? | 19:29 |
| Stskeeps | berndhs: it could do something about content - note the use cases | 19:29 |
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| Texrat | maybe the name should be alice_bot in case a real Alice wanted that account :D | 19:30 |
| Stskeeps | 'i'd like to see communication to-from meego architects as that is basically transparency on the architecture process' | 19:30 |
| Texrat | Stskeeps agreed that architect activity needs to be elevated | 19:30 |
| Stskeeps | well, it goes for anything :) | 19:30 |
| Texrat | yeah | 19:30 |
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| CosmoHill | hey DawnFoster | 19:31 |
| Stskeeps | in addition to that, let's say searches for ARM discussions with toolchain guys and see what was discussed etc.. | 19:31 |
| Texrat | but I see a lot of comments about architecture needs and questions hitting a dead end | 19:31 |
| Stskeeps | basically always being able to be 'in the loop' | 19:31 |
| berndhs | it could be really useful to just find a group you want to talk to | 19:31 |
| berndhs | like "how is working on libSlicedBread" | 19:32 |
| berndhs | s/how/who/ | 19:32 |
| infobot | berndhs meant: like "who is working on libSlicedBread" | 19:32 |
| Texrat | Stskeeps I am 100% behind anything that 1) minimizes noise 2) increases transparency 3) targets necessary stakeholders | 19:32 |
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| Stskeeps | :nod: | 19:33 |
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| Texrat | so if i understand correctly Stskeeps, if I invoke a targeted keyword in a discussion, and alice is included in cc, then that keyword leverages the communication out to certain interested parties? | 19:34 |
| lcuk | i thought it was just a catchall to add to conversations | 19:35 |
| Texrat | maybe...? | 19:35 |
| Stskeeps | as lcuk said, it's a catchall helping to archive the | 19:35 |
| lcuk | more human friendly than transparency_list@meego.com but to same effect | 19:35 |
| Texrat | oh, ok, just for archival | 19:36 |
| Stskeeps | conversations that go on outside mailing lists | 19:36 |
| lcuk | post processing can be done afterwards | 19:36 |
| Texrat | I misunderstood, thanks | 19:36 |
| Texrat | so no spawning additional live emails | 19:36 |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, well currently would you just start adding meego-dev@ to conversations? | 19:36 |
| Stskeeps | Texrat: well, that's the start - on top of that archive you can do interesting things, like, subscribe to conversations with filters like "discussions from-to architects" | 19:37 |
| lcuk | or the specific account related to conv | 19:37 |
| Texrat | ok, the subscription aspect sounds interesting | 19:37 |
| Stskeeps | Texrat: or start mapping the actual communications going on, such as http://www.jibble.org/shakespeare/images/a_and_c.xml-00000138.png | 19:37 |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, which server side MTA offers that capability? | 19:37 |
| Texrat | related question: would adding a link to the archive in email footer be a good idea, or not? | 19:38 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: none, but get me a mailbox in mbox format.. | 19:38 |
| lcuk | its not you I am worried about! | 19:38 |
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| lcuk | i think most folks here have done mail processing once its in, but its the subscription aspect | 19:38 |
| sivang | Stskeeps: is this bot already in existence? | 19:38 |
| Stskeeps | sivang: no | 19:39 |
| sivang | Stskeeps: and the analysis code? | 19:39 |
| Stskeeps | sivang: well, graphing is 'easy' | 19:39 |
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| Stskeeps | Texrat: the reasoning is that in practice, you can't keep up with all the communications in a project like this.. but you can subscribe to the areas that interest you or 'where you'd like to be in the loop' | 19:39 |
| lcuk | just start adding the related already existing ML to conversations? | 19:40 |
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| Texrat | understood Stskeeps... do you have a response to my question above? | 19:40 |
| lcuk | if people are involved in a packaging topic, add the packaging ML? | 19:40 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: well, in truth we'll end up with thousands of topics and occasionally, conversations are a mix of packaging, architecture and maybe community | 19:41 |
| Texrat | yeah, few conversations are hardwired to a single area | 19:41 |
| Stskeeps | there's no strict team boundaries, so | 19:41 |
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| Stskeeps | Texrat: i thought there was email header thing with archive, but i might be wrong.. | 19:41 |
| berndhs | I think by looking at who is talking about topics you can find out what topics are related | 19:41 |
| Texrat | Stskeeps I'll look again... I was focusing on footer | 19:42 |
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| npm | i'm trying to compile http://zchydem.enume.net/2010/04/08/my-first-qt-quick-app-quickflickr/ and it has "#include <QDBusConnection>" which is missing. where to find? (i'm using qt-everywhere-opensource-src-4.7.1 because qt from meego-sdk appears to be missing a lot of QML/declarative stuff and results in even more compile errors) | 19:42 |
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| Texrat | Stskeeps no archive link in visible header (for me)... I really think it should be added to footer | 19:43 |
| Texrat | maybe I'll file a bug | 19:43 |
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| sivang | Stskeeps speaks out of experience, and I must say trying to follow what's been going together with the existence of forums which don't make it easy, | 19:44 |
| sivang | alice is very much needed. | 19:44 |
| Stskeeps | in practice you can 'spy' on a couple of people's discussion traffic of your interest and find out what's going on :P | 19:45 |
| sivang | Stskeeps: I'm sort'a doing that now, but it is non trivial and consumes time. | 19:45 |
| sivang | so I've taught myself to actually look for responses from project drivers first, | 19:46 |
| sivang | rather than just reading a full thread. | 19:46 |
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| sivang | reaading everything is just not possible | 19:46 |
| Stskeeps | i had ~200 mails waiting for me after ignoring my mailbox for a day. | 19:46 |
| sivang | and I'm also sub'd to everything ML in meego, and watch the new messages when they arrive | 19:46 |
| Texrat | sivang nor practical ;) | 19:46 |
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| Stskeeps | and not spam | 19:46 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 19:46 |
| sivang | but when you are away... | 19:47 |
| sivang | there's no practical way to go over the backlog | 19:47 |
| sivang | or even wade through to find the responses of the drivers, so forth | 19:47 |
| sivang | Stskeeps: yes, exactly | 19:47 |
| adeus | "mark all as read", they'll send an email again if its important :) | 19:47 |
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| Texrat | I suggest Alice especially focus on member names invoked in email body... too difficult though? | 19:48 |
| sivang | adeus: do that and you become ill informed/ lacking pieces of knowledge etc | 19:48 |
| Stskeeps | Texrat: in practice people use first names | 19:48 |
| Texrat | understood, Stskeeps, just brainstorming out loud | 19:48 |
| Stskeeps | which is problematic since finns have very common first names ;) | 19:48 |
| sivang | Texrat: true :) | 19:48 |
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| lcuk | Stskeeps, wont the same people who you feel are avoiding ML just continue to avoid alice? | 19:48 |
| sivang | Stskeeps: yes, and we've already made some mistakes :) | 19:49 |
| Texrat | Stskeeps maybe just focus on account names if invoked... | 19:49 |
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| GAN900 | Stskeeps, I like it. | 19:49 |
| sivang | I like it as well | 19:49 |
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| Stskeeps | lcuk: i don't think they're doing it out of malice, more out of practicality in order to get stuff done | 19:49 |
| GAN900 | But I hope it doesn't encourage off-list communication TOO much. | 19:49 |
| sivang | but no idea how something like that can be implemented | 19:49 |
| lcuk | GAN900, Stskeeps is trying to do it to capture stuff thats offlist already | 19:49 |
| sivang | alice can check if the email was sent to other cc's , including MLs and reject if it was not | 19:49 |
| GAN900 | Stskeeps, and people not encouraging a new way of working. | 19:50 |
| GAN900 | lcuk, I get that. | 19:50 |
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| Stskeeps | also, if MLs has a lot of noise, you're more likely to 'unintentionally' ignoring it.. | 19:50 |
| GAN900 | lcuk, but I'd rather not see MORE communication go off-list if not needed. | 19:50 |
| sivang | I would love it to extract stuff out of the forums as well | 19:50 |
| sivang | Stskeeps: true | 19:50 |
| sivang | GAN900: how much of it is offlist at the moment? | 19:50 |
| sivang | on what areas? | 19:50 |
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| GAN900 | sivang, no idea. | 19:50 |
| sivang | I thought that most important stuff are on MLs | 19:51 |
| GAN900 | But given what I know about Nokia and what I've experienced with Intel, I think a lot. | 19:51 |
| GAN900 | But it's off-list, so who can guess? | 19:51 |
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| sivang | right | 19:51 |
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| Stskeeps | hence me suggesting mapping the world outside mailing lists :) | 19:52 |
| GAN900 | Right | 19:52 |
| sivang | I was wrong in understanding the purpose, I was sure this was to enable easy follow up on the MLs | 19:52 |
| sivang | but mapping the forums would already be great help, I can't seem to make myself comfortable with them | 19:52 |
| Texrat | sivang I misunderstood too at first | 19:52 |
| GAN900 | Stskeeps, would the archive be browsable? | 19:52 |
| * timeless_webchat cries | 19:52 | |
| timeless_webchat | i seem to be racing w/ a file system | 19:53 |
| Stskeeps | GAN900: why not? | 19:53 |
| * timeless_webchat hates file systems | 19:53 | |
| * Texrat throws kleenex box at timeless_webchat | 19:53 | |
| * sivang is amazed at how diverse genres of music are on SuomiPOP net radio | 19:53 | |
| sivang | timeless_webchat: don't cry, we're here for you :) | 19:53 |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, so you get CCed into a discussion ongoing without alice@ in it | 19:53 |
| lcuk | are you going to blanket add her to it? | 19:53 |
| * Texrat yells "Jackwagon!" across IRC | 19:53 | |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: that's my idea | 19:53 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: there is a reason why i talk about things being 'socially acceptable', hence me discussing the idea | 19:54 |
| sivang | timeless_webchat: sun's? | 19:54 |
| RST38h | who is alice? | 19:54 |
| timeless_webchat | ec2 | 19:54 |
| lcuk | well I am thinking of the talk of things being multitple topics | 19:55 |
| sivang | RST38h: or, who the %$^ is alice :-) | 19:55 |
| sivang | timeless_webchat: I stay away from that | 19:55 |
| lcuk | are you confident enough with yourself that you understand each subject to know it can be made public | 19:55 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: meego-community idea | 19:55 |
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| Texrat | "All the young girls love Alice" -Elton John | 19:55 |
| RST38h | Sts: You want a bot answering developers requests like "please open source ..."? =) | 19:55 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: no | 19:55 |
| GAN900 | RST38h, would probably be more responsive. ;) | 19:56 |
| Texrat | lol GAN900 | 19:56 |
| sivang | GAN900: I forgot to watch that thread... | 19:56 |
| * sivang tries to bring up the thread | 19:57 | |
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| GAN900 | sivang, only forum on Talk worth looking at is Community | 19:57 |
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| sivang | GAN900: so I've seen last nigiht, yes | 19:57 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: well, have to base on meego goals and what we market ourselves with.. meego is default open - so in 95% of cases, there should be no problem.. | 19:58 |
| Texrat | ack! breakfast attack... | 19:58 |
| lcuk | and in the other 5%? | 19:58 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: so i would suggest opt-out instead of opt-in | 19:58 |
| Jartza | programmers don't need any design | 19:58 |
| Jartza | you can easily saved two days of designing by coding two weks! | 19:58 |
| Stskeeps | opt-out 'magic word' ('off-record', etc) in mail would make alice ignore the mail | 19:58 |
| Jartza | weeks | 19:58 |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, but if you jump onto a topic half way through | 19:59 |
| lcuk | after 30 other mails | 19:59 |
| lcuk | and suddenly open it to alice@ | 19:59 |
| * timeless_webchat wonders what an alice@ is | 19:59 | |
| paule | what is the rule for making a new dialog appear on it's own screen rather than overlaying the parent app (Gtk) | 19:59 |
| CosmoHill | Alison_Chaiken ? | 20:00 |
| lcuk | a pseudo address Stskeeps is talking about to make sure "off-list" mails are made public | 20:00 |
| paule | (actually I *want* it to overlay, not be on a "new screen") | 20:00 |
| Stskeeps | timeless_webchat: http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-community/2010-December/002787.html | 20:00 |
| sivang | timeless_webchat: an imaginary bot that will help us link and track off ml communications. | 20:01 |
| Stskeeps | there's really also posts that doesn't lend itself to mailing lists at times | 20:01 |
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| Stskeeps | but are still part of project process/progress/discussion | 20:02 |
| timeless_webchat | cute | 20:02 |
| timeless_webchat | "good luck with that" | 20:02 |
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| berndhs | basically adding alice says "archive this mail thread" | 20:02 |
| Stskeeps | if you can remember about Bob from Z company and CC him to keep him in the loop, you can remember alice :) | 20:03 |
| Stskeeps | is my thought | 20:03 |
| lardman | sorry for the basic question, but what's the default media player for Meego? | 20:04 |
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| Stskeeps | lardman: what UX? | 20:04 |
| lardman | handheld | 20:04 |
| Stskeeps | meegotouch-music or something.. | 20:04 |
| Stskeeps | reference impl | 20:04 |
| lardman | hmm | 20:04 |
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| lardman | do you know what the backend is? | 20:04 |
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| Stskeeps | gstreamer, i suppose | 20:04 |
| alterego | lardman: the source is in git I think | 20:04 |
| lardman | ok, will have a look-see | 20:05 |
| lardman | thanks chaps | 20:05 |
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| lcuk | Texrat, since you are around | 20:05 |
| Texrat | I'm not a round, I'm triangular | 20:06 |
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| lcuk | earlier today, there was a short discussion with vgrade_ about the nokia booket | 20:06 |
| lcuk | booklet | 20:06 |
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| lcuk | where he said he could attempt to get meego running on it | 20:07 |
| lcuk | <vgrade_> lcuk, if anyone want to donate a booklet to me I will see what we can do with 1.0, 1.1 and trunk by downgrading the xserver | 20:07 |
| Alison_Chaiken | CosmoHill, just back from getting coffee. G'morning to you. | 20:07 |
| CosmoHill | hello | 20:07 |
| lcuk | which ties in with the device program somewhat | 20:07 |
| CosmoHill | if I work hard I might be able to finish my assignment by tonight :) | 20:07 |
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| lcuk | http://mg.pov.lt/meego-irclog/latest.log.html#t2010-12-08T12:37:21 | 20:08 |
| lcuk | I was going to talk with DawnFoster and qgil but you seem to be championing this muchly :) | 20:09 |
| qgil | championing who and what? | 20:09 |
| lcuk | qgil, last few lines of my scrollback explains | 20:10 |
| lcuk | i didn't see you had /joined! | 20:10 |
| Texrat | lcuk I am not really championing as much as contributing | 20:10 |
| Texrat | the program had lagged, TI made an offer, so I am just pushing again | 20:11 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: downgrading xserver is easy, just it's not really meego anymore :P | 20:11 |
| Texrat | On Activities Dawn or Quim is shown as champion for device program-- forget which offhand | 20:11 |
| Texrat | Ah, it's DawnFoster, lcuk | 20:12 |
| Texrat | I'm just helping her | 20:12 |
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| lcuk | its a shame because the nokia booklet should be working! it was aapo who mentioned it this morning and so I asked vgrade and got a nice response and that request for device to try and push it forward | 20:12 |
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| Texrat | never say never, lcuk | 20:13 |
| Texrat | let's find a way to make that happen | 20:13 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: the problem is the (damn) gma500, so until intel release processes (not a team related to meego) sync up with meego release schedule for it, there's no sustainable solution | 20:14 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 20:14 |
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| lcuk | Stskeeps, yeah the drivers have been a bit of a facepalm for a long time now | 20:14 |
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| chr1s | are there any specific differences if i put my app into the nokia, or the intel store?? | 20:15 |
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| lcuk | anyway, i am vanishing | 20:15 |
| lcuk | \o ttyl | 20:15 |
| * Texrat draws on lcuk's face with marker while he sleeps | 20:16 | |
| Texrat | oops, lcuk beard defense fully functional! | 20:17 |
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| Texrat | for those who have not seen, I am moving Meegon request process to wiki, to make it easier to manage | 20:18 |
| Texrat | but let me finish populating table first :D | 20:18 |
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| pupnik | heheh http://www.google.com/trends?q=wikileaks+ddos | 20:27 |
| pupnik | mastercard.com STILL down? | 20:27 |
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| Texrat | hey pupnik | 20:29 |
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| alterego | Is there any good docs on using cbuild? | 20:37 |
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| lardman | I may just be blind, but is there a list somewhere of the default applications in a given Meego profile? | 20:40 |
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| lardman | ah, this looks promising http://wiki.meego.com/Handset_Program | 20:42 |
| Texrat | qgil thanks for feedback on slogan proposal... responded | 20:43 |
| qgil | Texrat: thanks for the energies :) | 20:43 |
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| Texrat | qgil well I have to do SOMEthing while I'm off from work sick | 20:43 |
| Texrat | otherwise I go crazy sitting | 20:44 |
| Jaffa | qgil: good points; I liked the code analogy | 20:44 |
| Jaffa | Texrat: get better! | 20:44 |
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| Texrat | thanks jaffa, already am. Flu vaccine worked wonders this time | 20:44 |
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| Texrat | but my poor youngest son was hit really hard | 20:44 |
| lardman | not the bird variety I hope | 20:44 |
| Texrat | well, lardman, whatever variant, it was fairly mild | 20:45 |
| pixelgeek | lardman: there's a complete list of the packages in each of the install images | 20:45 |
| Texrat | for me... but my son had high fever | 20:45 |
| pixelgeek | Their names aren't as informative as the list you found on the wiki though. | 20:45 |
| Texrat | Jaffa and qgil: as for code analogy, the converse works too-- developing functions for later program use is viable ;) | 20:46 |
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| Jaffa | qgil: Also, the name "Apps" worksforme | 20:46 |
| Texrat | which is the approach I was taking with slogans as a campaign component | 20:46 |
| lardman | pixelgeek: it's just finding the list that's the problem | 20:46 |
| qgil | guys, I have enough channels of discussion atm ;) | 20:46 |
| lardman | Texrat: glad to hear it, get well soon :) | 20:47 |
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| Texrat | back to work then | 20:47 |
| alterego | qgil: I'm wondering if my task (Making N900 MeeGo easier) is related to your new one for engaging ideapad owners on the maemo community? | 20:47 |
| pixelgeek | lardman: http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/releases/1.1/handset/images/meego-handset-ia32-aava-mtf/meego-handset-ia32-aava-mtf-1.1.packages | 20:47 |
| qgil | alterego: no need to have excess in interlinking | 20:48 |
| pixelgeek | but you have to know what the packages do.... ;) | 20:48 |
| qgil | alterego: I have seen qole's experiments running MeeGo as an app within Maemo 5 - is this what you are thinking or...? | 20:48 |
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| alterego | qgil: a chroot system would be certiainly more widely adopted. Everyone seems to be saying the same thing, they don't want to move to meego until its' "ready". | 20:50 |
| alterego | Which is obviously what we knew already. | 20:50 |
| qgil | alterego: to me the secret sauce of new contributor engagement will come through Apps compiled at MeeGo OBS for MeeGo and Maemo 5 (you get those N900 testers still using plain Maemo) + brave users willing to test the same apps in a MeeGo chroot within Maemo 5 | 20:50 |
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| qgil | alterego: from there, a % will be curious about booting directly from MeeGo in micro-sd, installing in eMMC, etc | 20:51 |
| alterego | qgil: I came to the same conclusion | 20:51 |
| qgil | alterego: great - you rock ;) | 20:51 |
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| alterego | I'll probably work on a user friendly eMMC strategy then | 20:52 |
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| qgil | alterego: also, the chroot version could probably be updated once a month instead of the more demanding weekly cycle. Changes every 4 releases are quite noticeable, and some of those Maemo testers will be really happy feeling the pace of development in exchange of an affordable update every months | 20:53 |
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| thp | fregl: pong | 20:55 |
| alterego | qgil: yeah, good idea. | 20:56 |
| lardman | pixelgeek: thanks | 20:56 |
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| lardman | pixelgeek: yeah no worries there, I can use Google ;) | 20:57 |
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| lardman | personally I'd prefer to skip chroot and have a workable MMC image | 20:58 |
| lardman | i.e. working phone, sms, phone things | 20:58 |
| * Stskeeps is personally hoping to see some cross platform work cos of the ideapad onto n900.. | 20:58 | |
| lardman | is the ideapad the thingy from the conf? | 20:59 |
| Stskeeps | yea | 20:59 |
| lardman | k | 20:59 |
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| lardman | once there's an image with pm, battery charging and a working phone setup, I'll more than happily dual boot and do work on it | 21:00 |
| lardman | and I think we're probably not too far off that | 21:00 |
| Stskeeps | well, that's part of what we're doing in 1.2 atm so | 21:00 |
| Stskeeps | charging's there, just not wall charger | 21:01 |
| Stskeeps | and phone setup will be better when policy is there | 21:01 |
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| Stskeeps | we can only do so much though, but nothing stops anyone from building something proper using the n900-meego work :P | 21:01 |
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| lardman | I know, don't get me wrong I understand how hard it is. I'm sorry I don't really have the time to invest in platform work these days | 21:02 |
| Stskeeps | at least meego is doing things the right way.. minimal hw adaptation layer and very portable system | 21:02 |
| lardman | yep | 21:02 |
| Texrat | Stskeeps I would be surprised if that ideapad-enabled cross-platform work didn't happen | 21:02 |
| Stskeeps | Texrat: especially after the guide of dual netbook and handset.. | 21:03 |
| lardman | screen res might be a hinderance though | 21:03 |
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| Texrat | yeah | 21:03 |
| * lardman goes to grab some food | 21:04 | |
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| jani | any ideas if there's openal packages for meego ? | 21:24 |
| lolloo | is openGL on MeeGo? | 21:24 |
| jani | lolloo: 99.9% that libmesa is available and hw layer depends on the device. | 21:27 |
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| Stskeeps | rely on glesv2 instead | 21:27 |
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| Texrat | oh, thank you Ctrl-Shift-T... just saved me from accidental Chrome tab closure | 21:35 |
| lolloo | jani, what do you mean? | 21:35 |
| jani | lolloo: libmesa provides opengl backend in case there is no hardware support/drivers.. | 21:37 |
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| lolloo | alright | 21:37 |
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| jani | so the short answer: yes. Longeer answer: depends case by case =) | 21:39 |
| lolloo | hehe | 21:39 |
| lolloo | thanks. | 21:39 |
| lolloo | opengl has dolne good for android dont you think? | 21:40 |
| lolloo | done* | 21:40 |
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| Texrat | hey achipa | 21:53 |
| Texrat | hey leinir | 21:53 |
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| Texrat | hey Noobmonk3y | 21:53 |
| NooBmonk3y | Tex! | 21:54 |
| NooBmonk3y | evening :) | 21:54 |
| leinir | Heyhey! :) | 21:54 |
| NooBmonk3y | lo alls :) | 21:54 |
| NooBmonk3y | how is everyone? :) | 21:54 |
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| Texrat | surviving | 21:56 |
| Texrat | hey jukey! | 21:56 |
| NooBmonk3y | lol :P | 21:56 |
| NooBmonk3y | Texrat, this'll put a smile on ya face :) | 21:56 |
| NooBmonk3y | http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-11942814 | 21:56 |
| NooBmonk3y | the place it happenned is about 20 mins from, me, still makes me chuckle | 21:57 |
| Texrat | rofl noobMonk3y... "England's dumbest criminals" candidate | 21:57 |
| NooBmonk3y | hehehe yup :) | 21:58 |
| lcuk | NooBmonk3y, whilst highly amusing, still sad to see thugs running around | 21:58 |
| NooBmonk3y | lcuk, well, if they keep taking themselves out like that they'll be fewer around :) | 21:58 |
| Texrat | lcuk I don't think this oen is runnign atm | 21:58 |
| Texrat | what he said | 21:58 |
| NooBmonk3y | hehehe | 21:59 |
| Texrat | maybe all the smart ones are already killed off... though that statement sounds odd... | 21:59 |
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| Texrat | "Newsflash: it's now been determined that all intelligent suicide bombers are dead" | 22:00 |
| Texrat | wow, I am only 3 months behind on Meegon requests... sigh | 22:01 |
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| lcuk | Texrat, any news on the generator program? | 22:03 |
| lcuk | does it work yet, is there a beta test anywhere? | 22:03 |
| Texrat | lcuk yes it's usable and being updated | 22:03 |
| lcuk | cos if so, that may take the strain | 22:03 |
| Texrat | hang on | 22:03 |
| lcuk | i dread to ask, is it open source yet? | 22:03 |
| Texrat | lcuk: http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=1338&page=7 | 22:04 |
| Texrat | no need for dread | 22:04 |
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| Texrat | open was a requirement | 22:04 |
| Texrat | the program will be cool, but artists can do things no wizard can | 22:05 |
| lcuk | Texrat, sure thing, but if people can make a good approximation themselves its great | 22:06 |
| lcuk | leaving the artists time to add those special finishing touches! | 22:06 |
| Texrat | good point lcuk | 22:06 |
| lcuk | awesome sourcin :D https://github.com/physalis/MeeGen/tree/master/src/MeeGen | 22:08 |
| ali1234 | mono and gtk? seriously? | 22:09 |
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| lcuk | ali1234, the tools used by the developer are unimportant | 22:10 |
| lcuk | 18 months ago many people will have gone ewwww c++ and qt | 22:10 |
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| lcuk | anyway, I am going again | 22:11 |
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| lcuk | \o | 22:11 |
| ali1234 | doesn't say much for what is supposed to be the default language for making meego apps though | 22:13 |
| Texrat | ali1234 other developers and tools welcome ;) | 22:14 |
| Texrat | I was going to create a .NET app ;) | 22:15 |
| Texrat | nothing stopping others from crafting their own in whatever solution... in fact we encourage it | 22:15 |
| ali1234 | that *is* a .NET app | 22:15 |
| Texrat | ok, well, no one else stepped forward | 22:16 |
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| Texrat | I am not going to crucify the one volunteer over his choice of development | 22:16 |
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| ali1234 | i'm not going to crucify him, i'm just not going to use his program or contribute to it in any way | 22:16 |
| Texrat | can you code an alternative? | 22:17 |
| ali1234 | well i don't know what it actually does | 22:18 |
| Texrat | I'm sure his algorithms will translate to other platforms | 22:18 |
| ali1234 | does it do anything beyond dress up a meegon with layers? | 22:18 |
| Texrat | it's a wizard for Meegons | 22:18 |
| Texrat | creates them | 22:18 |
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| achipa | Texrat: hey | 22:27 |
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| NooBmonk3y | lcuk, (just reading up!) 18 months ago - i did go, c+ qt, ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwww! | 22:29 |
| * timeless_webchat sets a target of leaving work "today... not tomorrow" | 22:29 | |
| timeless_webchat | (it's 10:30pm) | 22:29 |
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| andyross | Qt grows on you. I still have my "eeew" moments, but for a library this size, it's cleaner than you'd expect. C++ is still, well, yeah... | 22:32 |
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| NooBmonk3y | :P | 22:33 |
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| berndhs | better than Java :P | 22:34 |
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| andyross | Dunno. Java is bland, wordy, hopelessly inelegant and has a terrible standard library. But it has two or three orders of magnitude *less* of WTF in it than C++ does. In C or Java, things like inspecting a string field in a debugger are straightforward. Ever see what a QString looks like in gdb? | 22:37 |
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| ali1234 | java has the most hopelessly confused and irrelevant standard library of any widely used language | 22:39 |
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| GAN900 | Texrat, does seem we've gotten to the going around time of year, doesn't it? | 22:45 |
| Chani | ali1234: it's lovely for programming competitions. :) ... I've never seriously used it for anything else :P | 22:45 |
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| npm | java is good for writing class libraries. then use clojure or groovy for your programming, which are not bland, wordy or hopelessly inelegant | 23:07 |
| vgrade | lcuk, texrat, re booklet discussion earlier. lcuk was asking for some documentation on our progress with this target. I had already made some notes on my MeeGo wiki page but explained that the issue with the drivers. My previous work on the booklet (and other GMA500) was from our experiance with Joggler but was somewhat limited by access to a booklet. As I mentioned earlier and was reiterated by Stskeeps the problem is | 23:07 |
| npm | also w/r/t looking at things inside debuggers, i think Vala and/or Genie are a lot nicer to debug ( after having written/hacked exactly one vala probgram http://spekle.googlecode.com ) | 23:08 |
| npm | but now i'm learning QML ... | 23:09 |
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| * lbt saw "java is good for" and got the giggles.... | 23:12 | |
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| abstract3d | is any1 from here interesting for installing meego_sdk and qemu etc from source? | 23:18 |
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| Cosmo|Busy | FUUUUUUU*********** | 23:52 |
| Cosmo|Busy | I changed < to <= and the program worked | 23:52 |
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| dm8tbr | Cosmo|Busy: classic off-by-one? | 23:56 |
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| * Cosmo|Busy growls | 23:57 | |
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