IRC log of #meego for Thursday, 2010-12-09

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Texrat	Cosmo\|Busy all's well that ends well	00:07
* Texrat ducks		00:07
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Cosmo\|Busy	I could have taken a shit into the compiler and produces a better program	00:08
Texrat	dneary thanks much for your guidance today	00:08
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dneary	Texrat, Remind me, which guidance? :)	00:08
Texrat	well, Cosmo\|Hill, now you have a better process for next time	00:08
Texrat	I mean Cosmo\|Busy	00:08
* Texrat ducks again		00:08
Cosmo\|Busy	cosmo sets off my highlight	00:08
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Texrat	dneary, the marketing and device program stuff	00:09
dneary	Ah	00:09
Texrat	good points and arguments	00:09
Texrat	helpful	00:09
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Texrat	but I am reminded again why the device program sputtered for maemo.org	00:10
dneary	Texrat, For the record, I don't think slogan brainstorming is useful	00:10
Texrat	dneary I udnerstand	00:10
Texrat	but disagree ;)	00:10
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Texrat	again, I see it as useful to draw out community members who might not otherwise engage	00:11
dneary	But I definitely feel like Quim's being too conservative & should let people fail more	00:11
Texrat	lol	00:11
dneary	Yes, that's what I think too. Some people will engage	00:11
Texrat	taken from my own philosophy :D	00:11
Texrat	I'm looking for community contributor entry points	00:11
dneary	The difficulty with things like that is reaching a finality which gets buy-in from people who weren't involved in the brainstorming	00:11
Texrat	after all, that was raised as a shortcoming in CO brainstorm	00:11
Cosmo\|Busy	Texrat: I'll send you my lecturer's orginal code sometime	00:12
Texrat	understood, but sometimes the process is its own reward	00:12
vgrade	o/	00:12
Texrat	and again, a door opener	00:12
Texrat	icebreaker if you will	00:12
Texrat	Cosmo what would I do with it?	00:12
dneary	re device program: the Maemo program failed because we were applying an objective measure for something which is necessarily subjective	00:13
Cosmo\|Busy	laught	00:13
Texrat	dneary I will agree with that. Can't be automated ;)	00:13
dneary	And decentralising an activity which is mostly centralised	00:13
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dneary	Hi Alison_Chaiken	00:13
Texrat	yeah, I see a fine balance between centralizing and decentralizing, esp given contrary opinions so far ;)	00:14
dneary	Alison_Chaiken, Your question made it into the survey	00:14
Alison_Chaiken	Hey dneary.	00:14
Alison_Chaiken	Great, dneary. Let's hope we get some useful feedback.	00:14
dneary	Texrat, The opportunity I see there is for referrals	00:15
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Texrat	dneary, expand on that pls?	00:15
dneary	The community works as a network	00:15
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dneary	So anyone who could usefully use a device is surely known to someone	00:16
Texrat	right dneary... which is why I am not so worried about centralizing logistics	00:18
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Texrat	let community act as collector/filter/director	00:18
dneary	And if we can get those nuggets of information - "could use a device", "has time", "will build stuff" - sufficiently centralised that people giving out devices know people who could use them...	00:18
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Texrat	I think this sort of activity is self-correcting anyway	00:18
Texrat	agreed dneary, thanks	00:18
dneary	Another way of doing it is to hand out devices like moderation points on slashdot	00:18
dneary	(this is a bit further out of left field)	00:19
dneary	Bear with me for a second	00:19
Texrat	good point, dneary... I'm actually working on a solution to karma that should help ;)	00:19
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Texrat	I'm with you	00:19
Texrat	<-- big time brainstormer and speculator	00:19
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Texrat	imagine this: karma meets balanced scorecards ;)	00:19
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dneary	You name maybe half a dozen community members (including Dawn/Quim/Auke/...) "device distributors"	00:20
vgrade	Texrat, dneary, like the idea of referrals	00:20
Texrat	I just need to make a pretty presentation	00:20
dneary	Each one has a quota of devices at their discretion	00:20
dneary	Total discretion	00:20
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Texrat	interesting	00:20
lcuk	vgrade, your request this morning is exactly that and apologies for using your example as a bit ofa testcase but its ideal chance to see how it could work	00:20
dneary	And you grow the pool of distributors on trust & merit - maybe based on who refers the most people?	00:21
vgrade	pandaboard for harbaum as well	00:21
Texrat	good ideas	00:21
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Texrat	I would add to that, if/when my "karma" proposal is accepted...	00:21
vgrade	peeps on irc know where these things would be utilised	00:21
dneary	Texrat, Well, you know how I feel about that...	00:22
Texrat	dneary I have a magic solution ;)	00:22
vgrade	I thought karma was done to death at the start	00:22
Texrat	trust me guys	00:22
Texrat	I have it solved	00:22
Texrat	anyway, my proposal is dynamic karma	00:22
Texrat	and to plug it into dneary's proposal...	00:22
Texrat	the top X karma holders could be part of that distribution pool	00:23
berndhs	karma means anyone new has to wait	00:23
Texrat	well berndhs that's not really a penalty	00:23
Texrat	that's true in any meritocracy	00:23
berndhs	it is for the new people :)	00:23
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Texrat	feh	00:23
dneary	Texrat, I'd expect distribs to be a select group	00:23
dneary	That would grow slowly	00:24
Texrat	dneary it could start that way, sure	00:24
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dneary	Like the committers of the "device-program" module, if you will :)	00:24
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Texrat	I would want a degree of dynamitics to it	00:24
berndhs	new people from outside a group can have their own merit	00:24
dneary	And they would grow by referral/co-option, not based on a score	00:24
Texrat	wait... think I invented a word...	00:24
Texrat	ah ok, I gotcha	00:24
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Texrat	but I was just brainstorming, too ;)	00:24
Texrat	it's easy to start with a collection of known, official leaders... then revisit that later	00:25
Texrat	I'm taking notes of all suggestions and will draft a single document containing several process proposals, including yours	00:26
lcuk	Texrat, finding out whether devices are available from each distributor and what controls and methods they would expect for their devices would be a good investigation, no matter which way it ends up being managed	00:27
lcuk	ie, the Ti people offering pandaboards, who to contact, what expectations are there etc	00:27
lcuk	also same for nokia and intel and amd too	00:27
Texrat	lcuk you are correct, and that is largely solved for TI	00:28
Texrat	trick is to get answers from Nokia and Intel...rrrrr	00:28
Texrat	jayabharath and I have been working out a strategy, on and off list	00:28
lcuk	ask directly with specific reasoning for asking	00:28
Texrat	yeah, if I knew WHO to ask	00:29
Texrat	with TI it was easy	00:29
vgrade	I asked for devices for local meet both intel and nokia promised devices, qgil and dawn	00:30
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GAN900	dneary, love it.	00:41
dneary	GAN900, What? Shy Developer Syndrome, or the device program idea?	00:41
GAN900	dneary, community's too big to have any one or two people.	00:41
GAN900	Designated device distributors.	00:42
Alison_Chaiken	Looking at the MeeGo 1.1 Core API, it seems awfully difficult to me for someone who wants to port a desktop Linux app to MeeGo to know how to get started. There's such an emphasis on Qt on the MeeGo SDK that ISVs with existing large code bases that don't use Qt (e.g. Mozilla Foundation with Firefox/Fennec) must have a hard time getting started. Or are there better resources than the SDK web pages for developers porting existing apps?	00:42
dneary	Ah	00:42
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dneary	I'd really like people's opinion of shy developer syndrome too	00:42
GAN900	And what about Maemo's program was a failure?	00:43
GAN900	dneary, scroll back?	00:43
dneary	I don't know if people have see it - I published earlier & I'm not sure if I set the maemo keyword	00:43
GAN900	Oh, blog?	00:43
ShadowJK	Alison_Chaiken, I suspect GTK isn't part of MeeGo Core API :-)	00:44
dneary	http://www.neary-consulting.com/index.php/2010/12/08/curing-shy-developer-syndrome/	00:44
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GAN900	dneary, reading. . . .	00:45
dneary	Alison_Chaiken, You're dead right	00:45
Alison_Chaiken	ShadowJK, I understand, but I can't even locate a list of which shared object libraries that we've all come to know and love underly the SDK. I suppose I can puzzle it out from the repos. Consider the list of libraries at http://developer.android.com/sdk/ndk/overview.html as a reference ;-)	00:45
ShadowJK	it'd be nice	00:45
dneary	Alison_Chaiken, The goal is not to have desktop apps ported, but to have new apps created	00:46
ShadowJK	I think someone recently said we can assume libc will be present ;D	00:46
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Zuu	isnt it running on top of a linux kernel?	00:47
Alison_Chaiken	dneary, in order to have a full app store for MeeGo, it sure would be great if Banshee, GIMP, LibreOffice, etc. ran on MeeGo. I'm not sure what I would tell a Graphics Magick developer if I met one in the street. (Not so unlikely where I live.)	00:47
dneary	ShadowJK, The architects are making a big distinction between libraries on the system and APIs developers should use	00:48
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dneary	ShadowJK, No-one should code against libc	00:48
lcuk	Alison_Chaiken, getting started. hmm on the ideapad, I just copied my source, zyppered the build tools and dependencies (gcc and misc -devel libs) hit make; make install	00:48
lcuk	and started to test	00:48
dneary	Alison_Chaiken, Banshee does - on the netbook - as does Evolution Express	00:48
Alison_Chaiken	dneary and ShadowJK, are we then saying that the API is stable (i.e. argument lists to method calls) but that the underlying libraries are encapsulated and may change?	00:48
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dneary	Alison_Chaiken, No	00:49
dneary	Alison_Chaiken, It's not much different from the Android story, "yes, there's a native system somewhere, but you don't need to worry about that"	00:49
Alison_Chaiken	lcuk, is there a list of SO libraries analogous to that at http://developer.android.com/sdk/ndk/overview.html that are promised in future versions for MeeGo, or no?	00:49
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Alison_Chaiken	Sounds like Banshee may configure-make-make-install today but not tomorrow? Can we consider a project like Banshee (or Gnote, or emacs or whatever) upstream to MeeGo, or is that out of the question? Are the only upstreams middleware like libm and libcrypto?	00:52
Cosmo\|Busy	eeeny, meeny, miney mo	00:52
* Cosmo\|Busy hugs dneary		00:52
dneary	Cosmo\|Busy, ?	00:52
lcuk	Alison_Chaiken, will banshee build/run on the n900?	00:52
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Cosmo\|Busy	it was for motivation :)	00:53
Alison_Chaiken	BTW lcuk, I don't want to harp on Banshee; it's just the first thing that came to mind. I'm a Rhythmbox user.	00:53
dneary	It motivated me to run away!	00:53
lcuk	core has a list of packages which are at this point, well core and used across the uxes	00:53
Alison_Chaiken	lcuk, I can find no such list either by mining down from the top-level at meego.com or via the Goog.	00:54
lcuk	but I dont know the longevity of those specifically and I bet at some point some will be depreciated and changed and removed as things evolve	00:54
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Alison_Chaiken	lcuk, that's precisely my question: Android NDK has a list of guaranteed packages. Do we have such a list? I'm asking because I know someone will ask me, and I want to know the answer in advance!	00:55
andyross	Alison_Chaiken: the in-progress compliance spec enumerates the "MeeGo API" (which is basically Qt) which is guaranteed for future compatibility, and the list of "core packages" which can be relied on only within a single release. Is that what you're looking for?	00:55
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lcuk	Alison_Chaiken, http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/trunk/daily/core/repos/armv7l/packages/armv7l/	00:56
lcuk	Alison_Chaiken, that is related to the ongoing specifications discussions	00:56
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lcuk	some of which happened before/during/after the conf	00:56
andyross	But basically: the only things that are truly guaranteed are Qt (w/QtMobility and the web runtime) and GLES2. Everything else can be used, but may be dropped between releases.	00:56
lcuk	did you go to any of the sessions?	00:56
Cosmo\|Busy	my friend is like a tamigokish that needs feeding C code	00:57
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lcuk	Alison_Chaiken, http://conference2010.meego.com/session/app-compatibility-and-meego-compliance-program	00:58
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Texrat	feh	00:58
Texrat	OW! kidney stone. grrrr....	00:59
qgil	Alison_Chaiken: http://wiki.meego.com/Quality/Compliance - check last version - Appendix A whete the list of Core packages is offered - there is also one specific for Netbook	00:59
qgil	Alison_Chaiken: I haven't checked that deeply but it soundls like what you are looking for	00:59
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Alison_Chaiken	Thanks guys for all the resource links. I will RTFM them and fall back on consulting Mark Skarpness if all else fails.	01:00
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lcuk	thats the one I couldn't locate, thanks qgil \o	01:01
Texrat	okay... time to synthesize all the inouts on MeeGo device program... wheee	01:01
lcuk	qgil, should I add a backlink from the wiki page to the conference talk?	01:01
Texrat	inputs*	01:01
alterego	Qt is getting steadily better and more complete at abstracting out platform details too.	01:01
qgil	lcuk: not my page :)	01:01
* lcuk adding then, its obviously related		01:02
qgil	I believe this is the first time the Nokia CEO says "MeeGo" in his tweets :) http://twitter.com/selop/status/12642220351950848	01:02
odin_	good article there dneary	01:02
Texrat	qgil it's a relief he mentions it	01:02
dneary	odin_, Thanks	01:03
alterego	I thought he wanted to go all in MeeGo and ditch Symbian completely ..	01:03
qgil	Texrat: really? why?	01:03
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Texrat	qgil acknowledgement is assuring, ignoring not so much ;)	01:04
qgil	Texrat: this guy has been talking about MeeGo several times and quite clearly since he was appointed...	01:05
Texrat	alterego I was surprised to see Nokia statement that MeeGo will not be used for enterprise...sheesh	01:05
qgil	alterego: quote?	01:05
Texrat	understood qgil. Let me clarify: it's reassuring EVERY time he mentions it	01:05
Texrat	MeeGo is the better mobile computing platform	01:06
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qgil	I mean Texrat quote?	01:06
Texrat	I'll try to find it qgil	01:06
ShadowJK	When old corporate customers talk "enterprise", they only want their old crap to be supported forever. Potential customers however would look at it and say "why the hell would anyone want to use that?" :)	01:06
Texrat	qgil I retweeted it recently...	01:07
qgil	Texrat: I mean, I saw the news you are prpbably referring to, but I didn't read that	01:07
Texrat	qgil, that's my interpretation of http://www.zdnet.co.uk/news/mobile-devices/2010/12/01/nokia-meego-will-not-displace-symbian-as-enterprise-os-40091029/	01:07
alterego	Texrat: that's because elop plans to move e-series to wp7 ..	01:08
alterego	jk	01:08
* Texrat thwacks alterego		01:08
alterego	:)	01:08
dneary	qgil, If you get a chance to read it, I'd appreciate your feedback also ("shy developer syndrome" article)	01:09
ShadowJK	I suspect before they'd call it "Enterprise", they'd have to reimplement WAP, 3G Video Calls, 3G Mobile VPN, Mobile Printing, that "Intranet" wtf-feature, and every other internet technology that was reinvented for cellphones just to be different, and also create a symbian emulator to run all the ancient enterprisey software..	01:09
alterego	It's not the worst idea though, I could see a move like that helping a lot of people out esp. with Qt, and business folk trust MS stuff in the corp world ...	01:09
Texrat	shush alterego	01:09
Texrat	you'll melt the channel	01:09
alterego	:)	01:09
alterego	Sorry	01:10
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alterego	So, back to MeeGo, I started playing with community obs today. Also released a new app for maemo. Been a fun 12 hours.	01:10
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GAN900	dneary, at work and failing to finish reading.	01:11
alterego	Tomorrow I'll get heavy into MeeGo handset and port the aforementioned app	01:11
ShadowJK	heh, does anyone else see a contradiction in: "touchscreen devices are often quite immersive experiences for users — people have to keep their heads down to use them, because the applications require their full attention. Nokia, he said, wants to “give people their head up again.", and then a few lines later "he did suggest physical keys might become rarer on the MeeGo devices, with faces that were all screen"	01:11
GAN900	dneary, like it up to the tough crowd picture so far, though.	01:11
dneary	GAN900, Cool	01:11
dneary	night anyway	01:11
Texrat	eh, ShadowJK, I just hope the whole world does not go extreme on touch...	01:12
alterego	ShadowJK: I did notice that, but who knows what he actually meant :P	01:12
qgil	Texrat: alright, your interpretation of the ZDNet reporter interpretation of some quotes of a Nokia VP dedicated to the Symbian platform - actually what they say makes business sense to me, but is different of what you attributed Nokia to say	01:12
Texrat	I love my N900, but my E71 equally as well	01:12
vgrade	night, dneary	01:12
Texrat	qgil sorry I fail to see how it's different	01:12
Texrat	but that could be my failing entirely	01:12
Texrat	I think any distinctions are moot	01:13
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qgil	no worries, no matter what you or me say here the Nokia portfolio won't change :)	01:13
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Texrat	cool qgil	01:13
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ShadowJK	reading that zdnet article makes me shudder remembering the corporation's ability to upload approved settings to your enterprise corporate IT approved device :-)	01:15
alterego	ShadowJK: that stuff is important in quite a few sectors ;)	01:16
ShadowJK	And obviously they have a Pentium 400 running Windows 98 SE somewhere in a locked room, and would be very upset if they needed new software to manage MeeGo-enterprise, and outraged if they had to upgrade to XP	01:17
ShadowJK	:D	01:17
qgil	dneary: ref shy developers - what you said + a manager that also understands all that, contemplates the time needed to follow and be involved in public discussion, etc	01:17
qgil	dneary: at the end (and this goes also for Stskeeps & Alice) the main lesson I have heared in all these years was in the Collaboration Summit last year	01:18
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qgil	dneary Stskeeps that IBM manager saying at one day IBM forbid any internal communications related to the open source projects where their engineers were involved	01:19
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Texrat	qgil wasn't that early this year?	01:19
Texrat	I remmeber being there for that speech	01:19
dneary	qgil, Yes, indeed. That was Dan Frye in Collab Summit	01:19
qgil	no ibm.com dude sending private developer discussion email to another ibm.com dude	01:19
Texrat	could have sworn that was collab summit in SF this year	01:20
dneary	qgil, The article was aimed at the manager	01:20
dneary	Specifically the clued-in manager :)	01:20
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qgil	I wish Nokia and Intel would have such policy, but I guess that is easier for me to say	01:20
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dneary	qgil, I am aware of at least one company with the exact opposite policy	01:21
Texrat	qgil, dneary, I got the sense from last meetup that TI is trying to get there too	01:22
dneary	All code leaving the company has to go through a v. small number of people who validate & submit patches	01:22
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dneary	That article starts from the core assumption that the manager and his organisation wants his team to participate in the open, and they're having some trouble getting there	01:23
qgil	dneary: actually Nokia has done a big progress in 2 years ref public code repositories, but still the human language is lacking where the computer language is proceeding, and I see some of the causes in your article	01:23
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ShadowJK	This would be a cool thing for someone to try datamine from mailing list archives of open source projects, how many developers from company X have posted things replying to another company X employee.. :)	01:25
Texrat	ShadowJK another chore for alice :D	01:27
alterego	Heh	01:28
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kp	I am trying to setup obs on opensuse	01:30
kp	i m following this	01:30
kp	http://wiki.meego.com/OBS_setup	01:30
kp	and having trouble	01:31
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kp	http://pastebin.com/embed_js.php?i=xveZMJXu	01:31
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vgrade	kp, some have had success with http://wiki.meego.com/User:Stskeeps/10_easy_steps_to_a_local_OBS, you might find some helpers here	01:34
kp	I have refer that as well	01:35
kp	but that is more like setting it up on virtual machine	01:35
kp	so a little different	01:35
* alterego looks at some bug reports for inspiration		01:35
abstract3d	should i go with ubuntu 10.04 32bit or 64bit?	01:36
abstract3d	for a development environment?	01:36
DocScrutinizer	from my experience with openmoko, it seems developers tend to use internal mailing lists if NDA restrictions become a pain to follow. The less you need to worry about one wrong word in a public mail to a corporate coworker will get you in trouble with disclosing stuff, the more easy it is to convince all company staff to go public	01:37
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vgrade	Doc, I think you've hit hte nail on the head there	01:38
DocScrutinizer	I moved/copied whole thread from internal.openmoko to community.openmoko several times	01:38
vgrade	as a MeeGo community member outside Nokia and Intel I don't have any come back on what I write here	01:39
vgrade	Stskeeps, alice initiative is a good one to encourage those internal discussions to become a little more open	01:40
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DocScrutinizer	and I still recall several mails of Wolfgang Spraul (vice of OM): "THIS HAS TO GO PUBLIC!!"	01:42
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Cosmo\|Busy	cyas	02:56
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abstract3d	i am trying to run meego runtime inside Ubuntu, but nothing happens	03:34
abstract3d	(it's inside VM)	03:34
abstract3d	i runned htop but i don't see any qemu service running	03:34
abstract3d	any idea?	03:35
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sphinxxxx	CYBER SEX AT : http://camchat.orgfree.com	04:25
Texrat	ok, so what is lcuk_idea	04:26
Texrat	sphinxxxx, gtfo	04:26
sphinxxxx	CYBER SEX AT : http://camchat.orgfree.com	04:27
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GAN900	Haha	04:38
GAN900	Does that mean we've arrived?	04:39
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abstract3d	omg someone kick sphin	04:59
abstract3d	Stskeeps:	05:00
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berndhs	sphin left long time ago	05:09
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abstract3d	ah soz :$	05:10
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npm	when i compile in qt-creator against meego-sdk's qt, i always get errors "error: QtWebKit: No such file or directory" when i compile w/ qt-everywhere-opensource-src-4.7.1 it works... how to get QtWebKit in Meego SDK ?	05:31
npm	also, is there a good help URL on "Options..."->Projects->Meego Device Configurations" setup to launch a program from qt-creator on an n900 running meego ,,,, i've found equiv for maemo: http://wiki.maemo.org/MADDE/QtCreator_integration_for_linux ... http://doc.troll.no/qtcreator-snapshot/creator-developing-maemo.html	05:37
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npm	closest i've found is http://wiki.meego.com/Hello_World_-_MeeGo_x86_development_on_Linux#Optional_instructions_for_using_a_real_MeeGo_device	05:40
npm	the above assumes no cross-compilation needed. where are instructions for using qtcreator to cross-compile and launch an app on a real Meego n900 handheld	05:43
npm	or is that not possible?	05:43
* npm goes to have dinner, hopes to find answer eventually		05:44
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Termana	morning	06:07
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kimitake	FYI, MeeGo Seminar Winter 2010 Ustream http://bit.ly/eUKdWV #meegotokyo	06:16
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Myrtti	moin	06:18
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Jay_BEE	hola	07:11
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Myrtti	örrörörö	07:28
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Jucato	Good day! I have a question about the MeeGo SDK. Is QEMU with VT a hard requirement? or is there some alternative I can use? I'm presuming QEMU is used only for emulation/testing right?	08:36
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Guest29710	hey	09:38
Guest29710	help me	09:38
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Guest29710	I have build a ivihome as rpm but error message is appeard "chroot: failed to run command `rpm': No such file or directory"	09:39
Guest29710	where is there it	09:40
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Guest29710	i refernced to wiki.meego. /build withtou obs	09:41
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djszapi	someone with archlinux and automatical usbnetworking here ? http://pastie.org/1361250 => I would like to implement this operation in archlinux, basically.	10:27
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pupnik	well http://paypal.com is now down	10:48
timoph	the ddos thing?	10:48
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pupnik	yep	10:49
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MoL0ToV	hi to all	11:30
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MoL0ToV	meego can be ported to existend arm devices?	11:31
MoL0ToV	such nokia N series and so?	11:31
MoL0ToV	i have a symbian s60	11:32
MoL0ToV	symbian is too old and slow	11:32
MoL0ToV	i want to buy a full opensource device, but a mobile phone, not a tablet pc	11:32
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lbt	MoL0ToV: N900 is the only one	11:35
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n97	anyone know if there is a good vpn client in current meego	11:36
n97	to connect to a cisco vpn gateway, something like kvpnc	11:36
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n97	that can import pcf files and have spesific routes	11:37
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MoL0ToV	lbt, so i sell now my n97-mini and wait for a mobile phone that uses meego	11:42
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MoL0ToV	symbian os is too heavy...	11:43
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MoL0ToV	and unstable	11:43
MoL0ToV	compared with a linux kernel	11:43
n97	MoL0ToV: I have the n97 mini.	11:43
MoL0ToV	also i	11:43
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n97	MoL0ToV: it was unsable as hell after a firmware upgrade, but factory default (or reset) solved that	11:43
MoL0ToV	i tryed	11:44
MoL0ToV	but don't solve all problems	11:44
n97	I think I even formatet the internal storage and memory card	11:44
MoL0ToV	the touch interface is still buggly	11:44
n97	what version are you at?	11:44
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MoL0ToV	exist a way to hack n series and load a linux kernel?	11:45
tmzt	what n?	11:45
tmzt	nokia n series? or the tablets	11:45
tmzt	n series needs an unrestricted loader and a port of the kernel	11:46
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Venemo_N900	MoL0ToV: Symbian devices have underpowered hardware, that's why they sux	11:47
MoL0ToV	i waiting for intel atom on mobile phones	11:47
MoL0ToV	i find aava phones on the net	11:47
MoL0ToV	small and power device	11:47
MoL0ToV	someone know?	11:48
Venemo_N900	MoL0ToV: aava is expensive and may not be well-suited for day-to-day use	11:48
n97	MoL0ToV: my n97 mini is stable. I have firmware v12.0.110 and post upgrade I did a reset described here:	11:48
MoL0ToV	n97, v 12.0.110 - 12.0.110.C01.01, type RM-555	11:48
n97	MoL0ToV: http://www.resetnokia.com/nokia-n97-mini-reset-code/	11:48
n97	MoL0ToV: because it was buggy as hell pior to the reset	11:49
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MoL0ToV	i try... before i must save photos and phone book	11:50
MoL0ToV	exist a firmware without all unrequested application ?	11:51
Venemo_N900	anyway, since when does #meego provide Symbian support too?	11:51
n97	Venemo_N900: please dont kick me for helping out :)	11:51
Venemo_N900	no problem for me	11:52
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Venemo_N900	what do you guys think about chrome os?	11:53
Venemo_N900	how much of a competitor is it to MeeGo?	11:54
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MoL0ToV	so s60 hardware ( ARM 1136 CPU for example) is too old to run linux with X11?	11:56
Venemo_N900	well not necessarily	11:56
pupnik	nokia 770 had it	11:56
MoL0ToV	i remember that linux on a p3 with 128MB ram runs...	11:56
Venemo_N900	the N810 has the same hardware as the N95	11:57
pupnik	so just buy a 770 or 800 or 810 MoL0ToV	11:57
MoL0ToV	is too big	11:58
MoL0ToV	i want a 3" display device	11:58
MoL0ToV	not more big	11:58
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pupnik	i think (not sure) that meego baseline will be a 800x480 3.7" device	11:59
pupnik	on the handset / phone side	11:59
MoL0ToV	i think that wait for 32nm intel cpu is a good choice, and i use nokia 3310 for now	11:59
MoL0ToV	or a china dual sim so i can use 2 providers	11:59
pupnik	if you like intel a lot, then it is	11:59
MoL0ToV	i like linux	12:00
pupnik	so you want a 2.5" phone with an intel cpu running linux?	12:00
MoL0ToV	intel release drivers for linux, this is a good thing	12:00
MoL0ToV	my need is:	12:01
pupnik	yes i like that support. it makes thinkpads+linux very nice	12:01
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MoL0ToV	3"display, kernel and drivers completely opensource, dual sim	12:02
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MoL0ToV	gps,wifi-n (also 5ghz)	12:02
MoL0ToV	i cant' understand why gsm trasmit power is 1Weirp	12:02
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MoL0ToV	2.4ghz only 100mW eirp	12:03
MoL0ToV	5ghz 1W so... we can use 5ghz wifi in house with voip	12:03
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MoL0ToV	and use gsm only when far to home	12:03
MoL0ToV	this is possible only with open firmware...	12:03
Venemo_N900	MoL0ToV: nice dream	12:04
MoL0ToV	so every user can customize	12:04
MoL0ToV	but the mass is stupid and buy closed devices	12:04
MoL0ToV	a nice dream, but nokia or samsung MUST understand that this is the direction.	12:05
pupnik	hm	12:06
MoL0ToV	here in italy many people uses china phones	12:06
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MoL0ToV	to use 2 sims	12:06
MoL0ToV	i'm selling my n97 mini	12:06
MoL0ToV	because i want dual sim phone	12:07
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pupnik	n97 mini is a nice phone though	12:07
MoL0ToV	yes	12:07
MoL0ToV	but has only one sim	12:07
MoL0ToV	so i sell it	12:07
MoL0ToV	and buy a economic phone, 40-50 euros	12:07
MoL0ToV	that has 2 sim	12:07
pupnik	do you also need two modems at home?/ two phone lines?	12:08
MoL0ToV	waiting the release of a full open source dual sim gps wifi-ham device.	12:08
MoL0ToV	i can wait also 50 years, no problem	12:08
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MoL0ToV	pupnik, at home i have nothing. i use wifi for making voip calls	12:09
MoL0ToV	free wifi connection	12:09
pupnik	i will probably buy whatever nokia releases for meego-phone	12:09
pupnik	i don't see the need for two sims	12:09
MoL0ToV	here in italy	12:10
pupnik	oh if the coverage is not complete for one network	12:10
MoL0ToV	the call and sms prices is too high	12:10
pupnik	now i see	12:10
pupnik	what about data?	12:10
ali1234	it's used to take advantage of free calls to same network mainly	12:10
MoL0ToV	have 2 sims is a need to use 2 providers	12:10
pupnik	ok	12:10
MoL0ToV	this is the reasons why mobile phone providers	12:11
MoL0ToV	pay the mobile phone providers to don't release dual o trial sim phones	12:11
MoL0ToV	i decided to take this road	12:12
MoL0ToV	some weeks ago	12:12
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MoL0ToV	when i charge 15 euro of traffic on my phone	12:12
MoL0ToV	and 2 days later	12:12
MoL0ToV	i go to zero	12:12
MoL0ToV	making 3 or 4 calls	12:12
stonda	so how much do you pay for voice in min/EUR	12:13
stonda	or do you have like a voice plan for like 500 min/month	12:14
MoL0ToV	0,15euro to answer	12:15
MoL0ToV	0,25 euro for minute	12:15
MoL0ToV	0,15 euro for sms	12:15
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stonda	oh they have tariffs on answering calls	12:16
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MoL0ToV	this is the average rates in italy	12:16
MoL0ToV	where an office man earn about 1000-1100 euros at month	12:16
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stonda	my take on the subject would be that in business areas where price erosion has been very high and service coverage is basically 100% - there's virtually no need for dual sims	12:17
stonda	meaning the basic tariff for voice and sms would be <0,10 EUR/min	12:18
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stonda	otoh data is a different subject	12:18
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stonda	and i agree that your take on dual sims is correct, operators are unwilling to subsidy them	12:21
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lcuk	fiferboy, you ran over the handset desktop stuff, did you have any missing packages? it appears to be missing pulseaudio-startup when installing the packages	12:22
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Jucato	Good day/evening! I have a question about the MeeGo SDK. Is QEMU with VT a hard requirement? or is there some alternative I can use? I'm presuming QEMU is used only for emulation/testing right?	12:25
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jonnor	Jucato: Xephyr with Intel graphics hardware is also supported for the netbook	12:35
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jonnor	People have used Virtualbox as well, though that is not supported	12:35
Jucato	how about for the handset ux?	12:35
jonnor	Then you need (cross-architecture) virtualization, as I'm assuming your workstation is not ARMv7 capable	12:36
jonnor	or dedicated hardware to test with, of course :)	12:36
Jucato	well I do have an N900	12:36
Jucato	other than that the only ARM-capability my desktop has is cross-compiling through scratchbox :)	12:37
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Jucato	(used it for Maemo)	12:37
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jonnor	Jucato: http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900	12:37
jonnor	I must admit I have not checked the state of cross-compiling for ARM in Meego	12:38
Jucato	I'm in a bit of a situation. my Core 2 Duo CPU theoretically has VT-x, but the variant that I bought apparently is the one that doesn't have it (an E7500). my laptop's CPU definitely has VT (also Core 2 Duo) but is disabled from the BIOS, without a way to enable it :)	12:38
Jucato	(the first C2D is here on my desktop)	12:38
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Jucato	so, does this mean that the emulator/QEMU is actually used in compiling and building packages for MeeGo?	12:42
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abstract3d	still trying distros for development environment.. :$	12:44
Jucato	I have Fedora 14, which seems to be 1 version too advanced for the supported distros :/	12:46
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abstract3d	Jucato: try fedora 13 or ubuntu 10.04 and only 32bit for now	12:50
abstract3d	i am currently trying to install 10.04 32bit inside vbox and see if i can have a full development environment inside there or i will dual boot (first distro is gentoo)	12:51
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dm8tbr	abstract3d: you could get away with chroot or lxc too instead of dual-boot	12:54
Jucato	I'd probably use a VM as well in that case, considering I can't get VT anyway ... a bit amusing that I would actually have to downgrade my main workstation's distro just to be able to get an SDK	12:55
Jucato	or dual-boot	12:55
Jucato	:)	12:55
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jonnor	Jucato: you can probably make the SDK work on other distros than listed, its just not officially supported	13:07
lcuk	to add to that: please try and test documented steps in various configurations and report back on specific issues (try best to work through them to help others who will follow)	13:08
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abstract3d	aaaaaaaaaaarghhhhhhhhhh	13:13
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Venemo_	hi	13:39
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Venemo_	http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-cellular -> how could someone commit to this at Saturday January 14 2012?	13:39
Venemo_	is this a joke?	13:40
lcuk	no Venemo_	13:40
lcuk	meego temporal agents travelling back from the future to help create the applications needed for the coming OS battles is perfectly normal.	13:41
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lbt	Venemo_: as a mark of shame, Denis will be ridiculed for having a bad local clock for the next year and a bit	13:43
Venemo_	lol	13:43
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lcuk	denis does not have an account on gitorious	13:43
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Venemo_	what do you guys think about chrome os?	13:43
lcuk	its a historical hiccup	13:43
copyleft	lol	13:43
Venemo_	will it be a competitor to MeeGo?	13:43
Venemo_	lcuk, I watched too much Star Trek, so that's what I thought too!	13:44
lcuk	Venemo_, I was thinking more Terminator style, star trek timetravel was more save the whales	13:45
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lcuk	sabotage, fiferboy - hint please, handset will not be coerced to take up fullscreen no matter which mechanism I try to set the gconf flag or alter settings	13:47
lcuk	(or anyone else!)	13:47
Venemo_	lcuk, then that means you didn't see Star Trek Enterprise's temporal war	13:48
lcuk	is Enterprise still considered canon?	13:48
lcuk	I thought they disowned it	13:48
Venemo_	lcuk, I dunno what you mean, but it is of course canon	13:49
lcuk	tho seeing Sam Beckett in action again was awesome	13:49
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Venemo_	lcuk: although it is (like the other series) discontinued :(	13:49
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abstract3d	i am trying to install meego-sdk on ubuntu 10.04	13:52
abstract3d	i am installing target meego-handset-ia32-1.1	13:52
abstract3d	after that i try the test with mad -t <target> etc	13:52
abstract3d	but it says to me that target doesnot exist	13:52
abstract3d	i tried to install target again but it says to me that target exists	13:52
abstract3d	removed and trying to install target again	13:52
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Venemo_	is the MeeGo Touch Framework for the Handset UX only or it'll be usable from other UXes too?	13:58
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Jucato	lcuk: considering I don't/can't have VT, I doubt I will be able to completely follow through the documented steps.	14:02
Jucato	I'll try to find a way to get on Fedora 13 though for starters. is running it in Virtualbox ok?	14:03
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Venemo_	Jucato: why not F14 then?	14:05
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Jucato	because it's not supported :)	14:05
Venemo_	heh	14:05
Venemo_	it doesn't mean it doesn't work	14:05
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Jucato	well, it does mean potentially messing up your system by having to add a F13-specific repo in F14 :)	14:06
Venemo_	it means that the guys who maintain the instructions were just lazy	14:06
Venemo_	could you give me a link to that page?	14:06
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Jucato	http://wiki.meego.com/SDK/Docs/1.1/Getting_started_with_the_MeeGo_SDK_for_Linux	14:07
Jucato	also, I will have to install a 32-bit variant, since 64-bit is also unsupported :)	14:08
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Venemo_	lol	14:08
Venemo_	all I can say is for the Maemo SDK, both non-deb-based distros AND 64-bit machines are unsupported	14:09
Venemo_	yet it worked on my F14 out of the box	14:09
Venemo_	:P	14:09
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Venemo_	(okay, with some trivial tweaks)	14:09
Venemo_	anyway, why is F14 not supported yet? this is ridiculous	14:10
Jucato	I didn't need a tweak for Maemo SDK though.	14:10
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Jucato	but yeah, it works just fine. doesn't even require QEMU with VT ;)	14:10
Venemo_	well I needed to set SELinux to permissive mode and put a setting to grub.conf, but that's all	14:11
Venemo_	haven't tried the MeeGo SDK yet	14:11
Jucato	oh yeah now I remember. and also the syscall something for 64-bit	14:12
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Venemo_	but I don't understand why MeeGo SDK has its own Qt Creator branch instead of developing it in the main Qt Creator repo	14:12
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Jucato	I think they're still trying to consolidate the different Qt SDK's into one	14:13
* dm8tbr also heard that this is happening		14:13
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Venemo_	yeah Jucato it's about time to do that :P	14:15
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Venemo_	Stskeeps: ping	14:17
Stskeeps	pong	14:17
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Venemo_	are there instructions about how to install MeeGo Handset to the N900's eMMC?	14:18
Stskeeps	no, but generally: use the initrd and export the emmc to usb	14:19
Stskeeps	and write it like you would write a usb stick	14:19
* Jucato remembers the Nokia guy's reaction to that question in the meegoconf video ...		14:19
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iekku	did they react?	14:19
Jucato	the one on stage beside Stskeeps :)	14:20
Venemo_	so in fact the steps are the same as with a normal SD card, just with the eMMC, right?	14:20
Stskeeps	harri or marko?	14:20
Stskeeps	:P	14:20
Stskeeps	Venemo_: pretty much	14:20
Jucato	something along the lines of "I hope it (instructions) doesn't go on a public wiki" (because they might have a lot of support calls from bricked phones)	14:20
timoph	Stskeeps: So the methed for installing to emmc can be shared?	14:20
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Stskeeps	timoph: well, people are welcome to brick their devices if they so want, but no complaining afterwards	14:21
Stskeeps	:P	14:21
Venemo_	will it be able to use the N900's "former rootfs" as virtual memory?	14:21
timoph	:D	14:21
Jucato	Stskeeps > public wiki :D	14:21
timoph	I don't want to get the blame for that	14:21
timoph	all the info is actually already there. One just needs to put it together	14:22
Venemo_	well a reflash will unbrick the device anyway, won't it?	14:22
Stskeeps	1 + 1 = 2	14:22
Stskeeps	:P	14:22
lcuk	Stskeeps, timoph - would a more suitable potential be to find a way to resize off 4 or so Gb of eMMC so that normal maemo operations work correctly	14:22
dm8tbr	brick is a harsh word if you can still attach it via usb and use flasher to fix things :)	14:22
Jucato	Venemo_: depends on the damage done :)	14:22
Stskeeps	dm8tbr: you'd think so, but the lemmings on tmo..	14:22
timoph	:)	14:22
Venemo_	Jucato: what damage would it do?	14:22
dm8tbr	Stskeeps: yes, they will call it brick and sell it to me at 1/10th value, I appreciate that!	14:22
Jucato	Stskeeps: but aren't you also on tmo? :)	14:23
dm8tbr	oops, did I say that out aloud? blush	14:23
timoph	dunno about damage but you'd lose all your data	14:23
Stskeeps	Jucato: only observing the experiment to collect data on user behaviour	14:23
Stskeeps	:P	14:23
Jucato	hahaah	14:23
Stskeeps	and it's not looking good for humanity	14:23
dm8tbr	in german we have a nice term for something like TMO: Trollwiese	14:23
timoph	I tested the emmc installation by doing ~500 installations in a row	14:24
dm8tbr	troll pasture	14:24
Termana	Stskeeps, dm8tbr: That's actually a nice feature of the N900 (the ability to even erase the bootloader and still recover with flasher) - I hope Nokia keeps it in future devices	14:24
dm8tbr	Termana++	14:24
timoph	good point	14:24
lcuk	timoph, :D its not the eMMC reliability I am concerned about	14:24
abstract3d	i am trying to run "sudo mad remote -r meego-handset-ia32-qemu-1.1.20101031.2201-sda-runtime poweron" i am taking this response "Starting QEMU runtime meego-handset-ia32-qemu-1.1.20101031.2201-sda-runtime	14:24
dm8tbr	.oO(did I even enable the karma module in MeeGoBot?)	14:24
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lcuk	we know the hardware is strong and reliable :)	14:24
abstract3d	This may take some time ..." and after that what? :$	14:24
timoph	lcuk: yep. people using it won't be :)	14:24
* lcuk glances past certain not through the hole things		14:25
CosmoHill	.o/	14:25
lcuk	CosmoHill, do you need the toilet again?	14:25
abstract3d	how much time should i wait to bring me the qemu? following that guide @using a runtime	14:25
abstract3d	http://wiki.meego.com/SDK/Docs/1.1/Configuring_QEMU_runtimes	14:25
CosmoHill	damn this cold weather	14:25
Jucato	I'm not that familiar with mobile phone OS innards, but I'm just wondering why it's so easy for Android phones to flash with different ROM's (cyanomodgen being the most popular). I'm not trolling (sorry if it sounds like that), but just guessing that it's technically possible, so is it something that Nokia has sort of set in stone?	14:26
dm8tbr	the term 'ROM' is quite a stretch isn't it?	14:26
Venemo_	Jucato: flashing the NITs is also easy	14:27
Jucato	(it actually reminds me more of game emulators, but that's how it's called in Android I think)	14:27
dm8tbr	I'd say it's just different for different kinds of hardware	14:28
lcuk	timoph, the chroot installation has been highlighted numerous times, which always leads me to asking: is it feasible to actually boot from a partition which is just stored as file on the MyDocs?	14:28
lcuk	i know it would need a shim	14:28
dm8tbr	lcuk: that's what I do on Archos tablets, though I use an initramdisk to prepare everything (and display a menu to choose the rootfs on the way)	14:29
abstract3d	any answer to me? :$	14:29
lcuk	interesting	14:29
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dm8tbr	the menu is a kludge, would have preferred something like the kexecboot menu	14:29
Jucato	dm8tbr: you got meego running on archos tablets?	14:29
dm8tbr	Jucato: sure, works on a5it. We we're just in an NOOP loop waiting for bug 5616 to go away (which has started now).	14:30
MeeGoBot	Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=5616 nor, Undecided, 1.0.80.15, fathi.boudra, ASSI, Certain fonts are garbled	14:30
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dm8tbr	it's yet-another-omap3, so it isn't really rocket-surgery	14:30
lcuk	dm8tbr, have you got any notes about the archos mechanisms you use or can explain it in more detail on a page	14:31
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Venemo_	Stskeeps: I did read your message on the meego-community list	14:32
Venemo_	Stskeeps: Slow app launch is partly due to almost no optimization such as	14:32
Venemo_	prestarting, Qt boosting, battery life is obvious since we don't have	14:32
Venemo_	OMAP power management in kernel and general slowness is due to the SGX	14:32
Venemo_	drivers :)	14:32
blafasel	Hi. I have been looking at the meego-middleware-sensorfw and the MeeGo linux-2.6.35 kernel patch. I noticed that new sensors are added as dumb i2c devices with simple sysfs attribute interface.	14:32
blafasel	I'm wondering why the industrial I/O interface is not used for integration of new sensors. AFAIK IIO already provides support for most of the sensors. Any ideas?	14:32
lcuk	because doing it as a chroot would obviously combine some of the things that alterego is looking at	14:32
dm8tbr	lcuk: yes, I can show you the initrd init script. gimme a sec.	14:32
lcuk	dm8tbr, its not me specifically, irc is too easily lost in time	14:32
Venemo_	Stskeeps: why is power management not in the kernel yet?	14:32
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Jucato	dm8tbr: oh cool. I've been looking at getting a tablet (Archos 70 or Samsung Galaxy Tab) one of these days, and wondering which one could run MeeGo best :)	14:33
dm8tbr	lcuk: well our processes are documented to some extent on openaos.org	14:33
Venemo_	Stskeeps: I thought Maemo's kernel had it	14:33
dm8tbr	Jucato: shameless plug: choose an a70 or a101	14:33
abstract3d	how much time should i wait to start qemu runtime?	14:33
lcuk	dm8tbr, ok cool, hopefully alterego will read whats here and come back and ask more questions	14:33
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Stskeeps	Venemo_: we don't use maemo kernel	14:33
dm8tbr	Jucato: the open bootloader should surface any day now. it's been in internal testing for a bit	14:33
Venemo_	Stskeeps: I thought MeeGo was a merger of Maemo and Moblin?	14:34
lcuk	nice	14:34
Stskeeps	Venemo_: we use upstream kernel + upstreamed packages	14:34
Stskeeps	Venemo_: i don't want to use 2.6.28, i want to use .35 or .37 :)	14:34
Venemo_	Stskeeps: right :)	14:34
Stskeeps	packages=patches	14:34
dm8tbr	lcuk: alterego can ask me in-depth questions, I rewrote the init script this spring myself. :)	14:34
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Jucato	dm8tbr: I'm actually leaning towards it now, since the promo to get the SGT cheap has expired :) I'm just not so happy with the resolution/DPI.	14:34
lcuk	Venemo_, it wasn't just cherry picking specific packages, it was choosing a sane set of components and practices too	14:34
Jucato	dm8tbr: oh but definitely not the a101. not a fan of 9"+ :P	14:34
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lcuk	great stuff dm8tbr :)	14:34
dm8tbr	http://dev.openaos.org/browser/trunk/openembedded/build/openaos/recipes/archos-init/initramfs-archosboot-multiroot/init-2.0.sh - looks a bit ugly, not latest version, I'll be available for questions in 4+h	14:35
Venemo_	Stskeeps: so OMAP power management is not in the upstream kernel?	14:35
Venemo_	lcuk: no insult intended, I was really surprised to hear this	14:35
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dm8tbr	Jucato: what makes me like Archos hw is that they finally opened up to FOSS and you can run whatever you want :)	14:35
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Stskeeps	Venemo_: it is now, but in .37	14:35
dm8tbr	has been like that for the last 2 hw generations and is now continuing with the newest one	14:36
Venemo_	Stskeeps: so can people actually try it now?	14:36
Stskeeps	Venemo_: if they're hardcore, maybe	14:36
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Jucato	dm8tbr: it's also more affordable here when they come out. unfortunately I'm most worried about local service/warranty as there isn't any around here. it's just being carried by a local distributor (in limited numbers I might add)	14:37
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Venemo_	Stskeeps: umm... why does it require hardcoreness?	14:37
Stskeeps	Venemo_: cross compile their own kernel and patch things ;)	14:38
Jucato	Venemo_: compiling a kernel always requires hardcoreness :)	14:38
Jucato	add "cross-" to it and you need mega hardcoreness :)	14:38
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Venemo_	so you mean that this stuff is not in the MeeGo images yet?	14:38
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Jucato	it's too recent, isn't it?	14:39
Venemo_	I dunno	14:39
abstract3d	qt-creator doesn't come with meego-sdk?	14:40
abstract3d	i have to install it before?	14:40
Venemo_	abstract3d: it comes with it afaik	14:40
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abstract3d	i tried to intsall meego-sdk and now to install qt-creator, i am going to tools-> preferences -> projects but i cannot see any option for meego	14:40
abstract3d	Venemo_: no it doesn't :/	14:41
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abstract3d	@ubuntu 32bit 10.04	14:41
Stskeeps	Venemo_: pretty much	14:41
CosmoHill	lcuk: my assignment is coming along nicely	14:41
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lcuk	awesome CosmoHill \o	14:42
Venemo_	Stskeeps: okay, thanks	14:43
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Venemo_	another question	14:43
Venemo_	do the applications of different UXes share their backends?	14:43
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Stskeeps	Venemo_: hmm?	14:45
Venemo_	what I mean is, for example if there's a calendar app in the handset ux and another one in the netbook ux, do they use the same backend?	14:45
abstract3d	have any1 successfuly got working development environment with ubuntu or fedora or opensuse? and wich one?	14:45
Venemo_	abstract3d: ask alterego, he did	14:46
Stskeeps	Venemo_: the idea is for this to be true eventually, but atm it's not	14:46
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Stskeeps	Venemo_: in this particular example	14:46
Venemo_	Stskeeps: that's sad	14:46
abstract3d	alterego: ping	14:46
Stskeeps	Venemo_: applications should use what's in core	14:46
Stskeeps	which would be common	14:46
Venemo_	~seen alterego	14:46
infobot	alterego is currently on #maemo #meego. Has said a total of 1271 messages. Is idling for 1h 20m 58s, last said: 'Heh'.	14:46
Stskeeps	but cos of meego history with moblin,..	14:46
* Jucato is actually confused what meego is based on: fedora or opensuse ...		14:46
Stskeeps	Jucato: none, itself	14:47
Stskeeps	:P	14:47
Jucato	-_-	14:47
Jucato	fair answer hahaha	14:47
abstract3d	Jucato: is based on fedora, from moblin times	14:47
alterego	abstract3d: pong	14:47
Venemo_	Stskeeps: so it'll happen eventually, but hasn't yet, right?	14:47
abstract3d	Jucato: moblin & maemo	14:47
Stskeeps	Venemo_: right	14:47
Jucato	abstract3d: ok. seeing zypper commands thrown around so much got me wondering :)	14:47
Stskeeps	Venemo_: new apps naturally use the right backend	14:47
abstract3d	alterego: have you got working dev environment with any distro?	14:47
abstract3d	Jucato: i was wondering too :P	14:48
alterego	Yeah	14:48
abstract3d	alterego: wich one?	14:48
alterego	ubuntu 10.10 64bit	14:48
abstract3d	with the guide?	14:48
alterego	Erm, not exactly no	14:48
abstract3d	hm.. how?	14:48
alterego	Pretty much though :)	14:48
abstract3d	first of all, i tried to install meego-sdk but it doesnt come with qt-creator	14:49
alterego	You should be able to follow the guide.	14:49
alterego	Yeah, I use my own qt creator anyway.	14:49
Jucato	is there any news/hope/rumor of the SDK supporting Fedora 14 before christmas comes? :)	14:49
abstract3d	how did you link them?	14:49
Jucato	(or at least a repo for F14?)	14:49
abstract3d	alterego: i cannot see any option for meego projects inside qt-creator	14:49
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Appiah	I followed a guide that told me how to link it..	14:50
abstract3d	also, when i tried to run qemu handset runtime, it shows me a msg to wait at console, but nothing happened	14:50
alterego	abstract3d: yeah, mines some what custom in that regard ;)	14:50
alterego	It uses maemo configuration	14:50
alterego	(for me)	14:50
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abstract3d	i also checked with htop if is there any proccess for qemu but none	14:51
alterego	abstract3d: what dist are you using?	14:51
abstract3d	alterego: i am using gentoo, but for meego i am trying ubuntu in VBox	14:51
abstract3d	i tried ubuntu 10.04.1 amd64 now i am trying ubuntu 10.04 32bit	14:51
abstract3d	and again the same problems :?	14:52
abstract3d	:/	14:52
alterego	That will probably be the best bet/.	14:52
Venemo_	Stskeeps: I've looked a little bit on MeeGo's git repo	14:52
alterego	But that's interesting.	14:52
Stskeeps	Venemo_: my condolences	14:52
abstract3d	any idea? or any steps to follow to got it working?	14:52
Venemo_	Stskeeps: there are some components that are not at all on the architecture map on meego.com	14:53
abstract3d	now i am trying to clean ubuntu and reinstall all packages if that solves the problem	14:53
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Stskeeps	Venemo_: like?	14:53
alterego	abstract3d: well, I just followed the instructions	14:53
abstract3d	:/	14:53
alterego	So what is your problem? You just don't have qt creator?	14:53
Venemo_	Stskeeps: for one, what is meegotouch-home?	14:53
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Venemo_	Stskeeps: it lacks any description in the repo	14:54
Stskeeps	Venemo_: it's the home screen in handset UX?	14:54
abstract3d	first, trying to install handset runtime, and to run it so i can test it, nothing happened	14:54
abstract3d	secondly, no qt-creator with meego-sdk	14:54
alterego	Ah, I think I had that problem too.	14:54
alterego	Let me think	14:54
abstract3d	i installed qt-creator after, but i have no way to get qt-creator have the option for meego project	14:54
abstract3d	alterego: ok i am waiting :)	14:54
alterego	Oh yes, the runtime requires virtualisation extensions fromn your cpu	14:54
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Venemo_	Stskeeps: okay, then why isn't it 1) in the handset ux repo 2) described as being the home screen in the handset ux 3) named handset-ux-home ?	14:55
alterego	If you run it in a VM, (if it'll even work) you need to disable the requirement to use kvm.	14:55
alterego	This should probably be documented, as I had forgotten I even needed to do that until now ^.^	14:55
Venemo_	Stskeeps: sorry for bothering you with these stupid questions, but it seems that you're the only one who's answering :)	14:56
Stskeeps	Venemo_: cos it belongs with the rest of the meegotouch- stuff and could be used on tablet too..	14:56
alterego	abstract3d: can you do me a favour and write down some notes ;)	14:56
Venemo_	Stskeeps: ok, thanks	14:57
abstract3d	well how to disable kvm? no kvm_module is being used right now	14:57
abstract3d	also, xephyr is only for hosts with non-intel card?	14:58
alterego	xephyr is for everyone I thought ..	14:58
Venemo_	Stskeeps: I thought MeeGo uses rpm, doesn't it?	14:58
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alterego	Crap, just bent my nail back,.	14:58
Stskeeps	Venemo_: it does	14:59
Venemo_	alterego: ouch	14:59
Stskeeps	alterego: trying to get n900 back cover off?	14:59
Stskeeps	:P	14:59
Venemo_	Stskeeps: then why are there debian packaging rules for things?	14:59
nibia	@all: does anyone here tried to use Meego in a Nokia booklet?? I'm trying to use it from a USB drive, but it doesn't work at all. Can someone help me?	14:59
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Stskeeps	Venemo_: Harmattan?	15:00
Stskeeps	:P	15:00
Venemo_	Stskeeps: oh, right :)	15:00
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Venemo_	Stskeeps: so this means that Harmattan'll use the same Handset UX?	15:00
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Stskeeps	Venemo_: dunno	15:01
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alterego	abstract3d: just give me a second ;	15:01
Venemo_	Stskeeps: :P	15:01
Stskeeps	Venemo_: i deal with meego.com, i'm happily ignorant	15:01
Venemo_	Stskeeps: okay :)	15:02
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alterego	abstract3d: you still there?	15:03
Venemo_	Stskeeps: I have another question. Some time ago you talked about that there may be a chance to run MeeGo with the handset ux on N8x0 devices	15:03
abstract3d	alterego: ofc	15:03
alterego	This file /usr/lib/madde/linux-x86_64/runtimes/meego-handset-ia32-qemu-1.1.20101031.2201-sda-runtime/information	15:03
alterego	That file contains the arguments to qemu to start it.	15:03
Venemo_	Stskeeps: that would be good for me because I don't have another N900 for doing MeeGo dev	15:03
alterego	You need to remove the "-enable-kvm" but that might not be the end of your problems, let me know how you get on	15:03
Stskeeps	Venemo_: man, with all those questions i might have to ask where to send the invoice for my services :)	15:03
alterego	brb	15:04
abstract3d	alterego: ok, currently i am reinstalling everything @ubuntu :$	15:04
Venemo_	Stskeeps: sorry, really :P	15:04
abstract3d	in about 10 minutes i guess i can test that	15:04
Venemo_	Stskeeps: but noone else ever answers such questions on this channel :)	15:04
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pupnik	Venemo_: you would be in fairly small minority of prospetive end-users for meego on n8x0	15:05
Stskeeps	Venemo_: there's a chance but things take time..	15:05
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Stskeeps	Venemo_: my priority goes to n900 first, n8x0 second and lately n8x0 isn't getting much love :P	15:06
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Stskeeps	people should port qt 4.7 to diablo	15:07
Stskeeps	:P	15:07
Venemo_	Stskeeps: hehe :D	15:07
Jucato	no gnuton to poke :D	15:07
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Venemo_	Stskeeps: okay. thanks :)	15:08
Jucato	so ... what is Harmattan now? :)	15:08
Venemo_	Stskeeps: I hope you're not mad at me for bothering you with these things	15:08
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Stskeeps	Venemo_: meh, buy me a drink in case you ever meet me	15:09
Bostik	Stskeeps: that'll be the day, getting all the build-deps satisfied; even for fremantle those were utter horror to hunt down but I did manage it :)	15:09
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Venemo_	Stskeeps: I will	15:09
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Jucato	I think it's easy to meet Stskeeps. I heard he's located at his couch or something	15:10
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Stskeeps	mm, usually	15:10
Venemo_	in which country?	15:11
Stskeeps	.p	15:11
Stskeeps	l	15:11
Jucato	couch-country, duh :)	15:11
Jucato	oh :)	15:11
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abstract3d	it was a bad idea to reinstall all packages @ubuntu..	15:17
abstract3d	i will have to wait for the next century to come before it finish ..	15:17
Venemo_	hehe	15:18
alterego	:)	15:18
abstract3d	omfg	15:19
abstract3d	alterego: qtcreator comes with meego-sdk	15:19
abstract3d	but the name of package is meego-sdk-qtcreator	15:19
abstract3d	wtf..	15:19
alterego	abstract3d: yeah, I know, but I use my own.	15:19
abstract3d	alterego: why?	15:19
alterego	abstract3d: it's to stop it conflicting with Nokia Qt SDK and any other versions you may have.	15:19
abstract3d	alterego: so what is the package name?	15:20
abstract3d	plain qt-creator?	15:20
alterego	I installed from source	15:20
abstract3d	alterego: whole sdk and qt?	15:21
alterego	You may aswell use the meego one, as it's probably better integrated than my custom hodge-podge ;)	15:21
alterego	Just qt creator	15:21
abstract3d	ah ok :$	15:21
ali1234	so does the meego-sdk have a qt-creator with targets for meego arm and x86 and can build rpms for me?	15:21
alterego	ali1234: yes, except the rpm bit ..	15:22
alterego	(don't quote me, maybe it does, but I don't use it) :D	15:22
ali1234	the rpm bit is the only thing i need	15:22
abstract3d	how to search with apt-get for available packages ?	15:23
ali1234	apt-cache search	15:23
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Stskeeps	i thought it makes rpm packages but i might be wrong	15:23
alterego	Yeah, tbh I don't know.	15:23
abstract3d	ah apt-cache search <keyword>	15:23
ali1234	if i install it, is it going to mess up my whole machine like the maemo sdk used to?	15:24
jonnor	It was stated at the Meego conf that an OBS integration plugin for QtCreator existed. I do not know if it is in the Meego SDK though	15:24
Stskeeps	ali1234: afaik it is trying to be non-invasive :P	15:24
abstract3d	ubuntu with 1000000000000000000000000000 packages	15:25
abstract3d	-.-	15:25
ali1234	"none invasive" would mean installing everything in my homedir like the nokia sdk does	15:26
nibia	ali1234: qt creator that comes with meego sdk builds rpms for you, as you can see in this link: http://wiki.meego.com/SDK/Docs/1.1/Creating_Hello_World#Packaging_the_Hello_World	15:27
abstract3d	alterego: well disable-kvm worked	15:28
alterego	abstract3d: sweet! :D	15:28
abstract3d	but i am still w8ing for whole REINSTALL!	15:28
alterego	Don't expect it to run particularly quickly though ;)	15:28
alterego	with a vm inside a vm ^.^	15:28
abstract3d	so it is fully functional @ubuntu 10.10 amd64?	15:29
ali1234	has anyone tried the sdk on ubuntu maverick 64 bit? it doesn't say it is supported, or even planned for support	15:29
ali1234	oh snap	15:29
abstract3d	ali1234: :)	15:29
abstract3d	alterego: i am still waiting to boot :p	15:29
alterego	Hah	15:29
* Jucato starts the timer :)		15:30
abstract3d	its normal.. if you think that i am reinstalling whole system in the same time :$	15:30
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abstract3d	alterego: 15:29 < abstract3d> so it is fully functional @ubuntu 10.10 amd64?	15:31
alterego	abstract3d: handset is, for me, netbook not so much.	15:32
alterego	But I'm not interested in netbook for the time being so I've not looked into itl	15:32
abstract3d	is it wise to install it from gitorious?	15:33
abstract3d	whole meego-sdk etc..	15:33
abstract3d	just install package by package :$	15:33
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lcuk	alterego, did you see the pings from earlier regarding dm8tbr and booting from a file based image	15:33
abstract3d	crap :D i have a black screen and an X arrow @qemu :P	15:34
abstract3d	in arround 10 minutes it will boot :p	15:34
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abstract3d	it will be fully functional :P	15:34
abstract3d	the bad thing is that ubuntu has grub2 and thats bad because i have grub legacy into gentoo :p	15:34
alterego	lcuk: no, in this channel?	15:36
abstract3d	i am thinking.. that if they want users to meego, they have to do things more simplified..	15:36
abstract3d	nokia-sdk-qtcreator meego-sdk-qtcreator etc etc etc etc	15:36
abstract3d	one package to go and have full functionality would be great :$	15:36
ali1234	is the sdk in the meego repos, ie can i just install it on meego netbook with no fuss?	15:37
lcuk	yes alterego	15:37
alterego	abstract3d: there may be a meta package, but who knows :P	15:37
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abstract3d	alterego: there must be :$	15:37
alterego	abstract3d: and I'm sure Nokia/Intel will releaes a proper single binary download SDK at some point.	15:37
alterego	When they include support for Windows and OS X ;)	15:37
Venemo_	alterego: they should do it anyway	15:37
abstract3d	yeah.. 6 to 10 months later.. :$	15:37
Chani	jonnor: OBS integration? that's project Bretzn (sp?) - I'm not sure how close to being done it is. but leinir might know :)	15:38
ali1234	well the linux nokia sdk has no symbian support, so who cares if the windows version has no meego support, right?	15:38
leinir	It's very, very close :)	15:38
leinir	And yeah, that's Bretzn :)	15:38
abstract3d	we don't like windows so we don't care	15:38
abstract3d	:p	15:38
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leinir	i'm putting the last touches to the qt creator plugin side of it at the moment, sebas left a few things hanging before hopping off on a (well deserved, i should add!) holiday :)	15:39
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alterego	leinir: so you work on Qt Creator for MeeGo?	15:42
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abstract3d	i want meego-sdk etc inside gentoo	15:44
abstract3d	i don't want any other crap	15:44
abstract3d	:$	15:44
abstract3d	ubuntu still reinstalling bin packages... wtf	15:44
alterego	abstract3d: should be possible. Start by getting madde to work on gentoo	15:45
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abstract3d	alterego: with scratchbox?	15:45
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alterego	abstract3d: madde doesn't use scratchbox	15:46
alterego	abstract3d: basically, you need to compile, from source, the qemu we use for meego SDK	15:46
alterego	Which is in gitorious	15:46
alterego	You also need to get madde working on gentoo	15:46
alterego	(which probably doesn't need compiling from source)	15:46
abstract3d	all @gentoo needs compile from source :P	15:46
alterego	Grab whatever version of Qt creator you want to use, probably best to grap the qt creator with meego stuff from gitorious too.	15:47
abstract3d	madde is available from package manager, @version 0.6.72 is that the latest?	15:47
Jucato	alterego: so qemu is really necessary even just to compile for meego?	15:47
alterego	Jucato: no	15:47
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alterego	Jucato: you only need madde for cross-compiling really.	15:47
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alterego	Jucato: qemu allows you to run the UXs in an emulator to test your apps.	15:48
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Jucato	ok well for handset ux I meant (which is most likely ARM)	15:48
alterego	Jucato: yes, you can download the arm sysroots and compilers for madde and just use madde to cross compile.	15:48
alterego	That's actually how I do my stuff ^.^	15:48
Venemo_	is there a similar thingy for MeeGo like the Scratchbox-based SDK for Maemo?	15:48
alterego	I don't bother with Qemu at the moment, though I did make sure I could at least get it to run ;)	15:49
Venemo_	eg. for running the Handset UX in Xephyr or things like that?	15:49
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alterego	Venemo_: not really, no.	15:49
Jucato	alterego: but madde uses qemu right? I'm in a bind because my CPU is a non-VT variant of VT CPU :)	15:49
Venemo_	alterego: :(	15:49
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alterego	Venemo_: oh, yes there is that, like I said, it's done in qemu	15:49
alterego	No scratchbox.	15:49
Jucato	ok then I'm royally screwed :D	15:49
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alterego	Jucato: no madde doesn't use qemu	15:50
alterego	Jucato: madde is just a cross-compilation target management utility.	15:50
Venemo_	http://meego.com/developers/meego-application-development-cycle -> this page says something about a "MeeGo chroot" with Xephyr and stuff	15:50
alterego	Jucato: it also has the ability to deploy to a device, and the "device" in meego SDK case can be a real device or a qemu emulated device.	15:51
Jucato	alterego: ah, just not using scratchbox.	15:51
ali1234	Venemo_: there is a lot of out of date info on the wiki	15:51
Venemo_	ali1234: that is not the wiki	15:51
Jucato	ok then, I have a n900 anyway so probably I can test there	15:51
ali1234	Venemo_: that's even worse, but look at the date on it	15:51
Jucato	Venemo_: which makes it even more outdated probalby :)	15:51
Venemo_	ouch	15:51
abstract3d	alterego: to install from git, i have to git clone, and after that compile the package right?	15:52
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alterego	abstract3d: yeah, you don't have any of that gentoo crap to help you this time :P	15:52
alterego	Jucato: yes, I do most of my testing on device.	15:53
abstract3d	alterego: and in wich directory do i have to create the folder for meego-git sources?	15:53
abstract3d	@ /home it should be ok?	15:53
alterego	Sure	15:53
Jucato	hm ... thanks Venemo_, that explains what jonnor told me earlier	15:54
alterego	The beauty of doing all of this from source is you can choose where you install it to aswell.	15:54
Jucato	Intel GPU + Xephyr can take the place of QEMU with VT	15:54
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Venemo_	Jucato: what did he?	15:54
Jucato	:)	15:54
Jucato	my laptop's CPU is VT-capable but VT-disabled by BIOS :)	15:54
Jucato	fortunately it has an Intel GPU	15:55
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Venemo_	mhm	15:55
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Venemo_	what do you mean by VT? hardware virtualization?	15:55
Jucato	yep	15:55
Jucato	Virtualization Technology. it's right there on that page too :)	15:56
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Jucato	and to the link I gave you a few hours ago :)	15:56
leinir	alterego: Not exactly - i work on Bretzn's serverside implementation (a web service which does most of the work of distributing the work out to the various services like OBS and the meego OBS and such, as well as publishing sites like openDesktop.org and the meego garage... whenever that happens ;) ). But right now, because sebas has some time off and we need the system running, i'm hacking away at the Creator plugin :)	15:57
leinir	Mmm, Qt ;)	15:57
abstract3d	alterego: should i clone whole meego.gitorious.org?	15:57
leinir	(sorry for the long response times, hackery is going on ;) )	15:57
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alterego	abstract3d: erm, if you want, but you don't need to.	15:58
slaine	wow, been busy in here today	15:58
alterego	abstract3d: like I said, start off with their qemu	15:58
alterego	abstract3d: there's even a wiki page on building it	15:59
leinir	alterego: And well, we're wanting to release before yule, so... yup, needs doing :)	15:59
abstract3d	alterego: you sade to start with madde :P	15:59
Jucato	I have to say though, I'm a bit disappointed at the current state of the SDK, specifically with the somewhat rigid/high requirements and/or the (unsupported) steps you have to take to get around them if you don't meet the requirements. It wasn't that hard for Maemo and wasn't that hard either for Android (I just tried setting up an SDK last week for a few minutes, just out of curiousity)	15:59
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Jucato	I'm just going to attribute it to MeeGo's birth pains and hope it will become easier/more flexible very soon	16:00
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abstract3d	alterego: http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_SDK_Building_QEMU_Tools	16:00
leinir	nods It's just teething problems, yeah, the project still isn't a year old :)	16:00
Stskeeps	Jucato: well, the requirements are rigid cos that's what is actually tested..	16:00
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alterego	abstract3d: indeed :)	16:01
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Venemo_	Jucato: anyway, I have no VT and no intel graphics either...	16:01
alterego	Heh	16:02
Jucato	Venemo_: no QEMU for us :)	16:02
alterego	For most app development, you can just compile mtf for your desktop ^.^	16:02
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Venemo_	yep	16:02
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Jucato	leinir: I guess I just expected too much from 2 industry giants working together with Stskeeps	16:03
Jucato	I mean with the community :)	16:03
* Jucato hides in a corner		16:03
Stskeeps	oi	16:03
Stskeeps	:P	16:03
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alterego	Hahah	16:03
alterego	quote of the day.	16:03
Jucato	lol	16:03
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Jucato	sorry Stskeeps, you seem to be on my quick dial today	16:04
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alterego	Jucato: double-tab! :D	16:04
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Jucato	:)	16:05
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abstract3d	alterego: is there any way to clone whole meego git tree?	16:09
alterego	abstract3d: probably, but why would you want to? :P	16:09
abstract3d	alterego: i want :P	16:09
abstract3d	ok maybe i don't need all that packages :p but is there any way to do that?	16:10
alterego	Don't know :P	16:10
alterego	That's not really how it works here.	16:10
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alterego	People don't develop for every part of meego at the same time.	16:10
alterego	We rely on auto-builders to build the latest versions of packages and then we just build the stuff we're working on.	16:11
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CosmoHill	first two sections of my assignment are done	16:12
CosmoHill	:D	16:12
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abstract3d	alterego: after qemu what to do?	16:41
alterego	madde	16:42
alterego	You shouldn't have to build it. If you just download the package from the meego repo and uncompress it somewhere.	16:43
abstract3d	well its the same i suppose	16:43
abstract3d	and after madde?	16:43
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alterego	abstract3d: qt creator	16:50
alterego	then make them work nicely with each other.	16:50
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* alterego is afk		16:50
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abstract3d	alterego: ok thanks :) i will try :p	16:51
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mlpug	How do I get all conference presentations easily? wget -r -A pdf,odp http://conference2010.meego.com/sites/all/files/sessions throws error 403 even if I am able to wget individual presentation file. tnx for hint.	17:16
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abstract3d	mlpug: http://conference2010.meego.com/sites/all/files/sessions	17:25
abstract3d	its dead	17:25
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abstract3d	but.. how i can download all that ? http://conference2010.meego.com/sites/all/files/sessions	17:26
abstract3d	http://video.linuxfoundation.org/categories/conferences-symposiums/2010-meego-conference *	17:26
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pupnik	abstract3d: you can use ctrl+u to find the video url	17:30
pupnik	search for .flv	17:31
pupnik	and i don't think anyone wants people to mass-download videos	17:31
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pupnik	otherwise that would have been an option	17:32
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Alison_Chaiken	Has anyone checked out Jolicloud and have some thoughts about how it looks compared to MeeGo?	17:43
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muckymouse	Hi, im trying to install wireless drivers but im getting RPM build errors saying 'user glen does not exist' and 'group glen does not exist' any ideas?	17:56
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muckymouse	i followed the wifi guide from slaine.org	17:59
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abstract3d	muckymouse: post the link	18:01
muckymouse	http://www.slaine.org/_slaine/Meego_1.1_Wifi.html	18:02
muckymouse	the wireless card requires broadcom b43 drivers	18:02
abstract3d	http://forum.meego.com/archive/index.php/t-844.html	18:03
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muckymouse	abstract3d: thank you for the link, its working now :)	18:14
DawnFoster	Stskeeps: ping	18:15
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abstract3d	muckymouse: :)	18:19
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abstract3d	alterego: i am trying to install mic but i get this error when doing mic-chroot /tmp/handset http://pastebin.com/WMRDnc2d	18:34
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lbt	rpm sucks ballz	18:43
lbt	just sayin'	18:43
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lcuk	lbt?	18:43
lcuk	is this follow up to your ongoing versioning investigation	18:44
lbt	kinda	18:44
lbt	let's just say that the regexp for validating an rpm changelog entry is : .*	18:44
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Stskeeps	DawnFoster: pong	18:45
lbt	I just found a .changes file that has no versions in it... just dates	18:45
Stskeeps	lbt: eep	18:46
muckymouse	whats the name of that piece of software thats good taking notes, like ms onenote, begins with z i think	18:46
lbt	nokia internal so I can fix it	18:46
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lbt	but the problem is that the 'version' is optional at the end of a changelog entry so I can't easily flag them	18:47
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DawnFoster	hey Stskeeps - did you already run the irc stats for November? Can't seem to find the link.	18:47
lbt	oh, speaking of which.... Stskeeps I owe you an ircbot VM in meego.com-land	18:47
Stskeeps	DawnFoster: i was wondering that too recently	18:47
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abstract3d	alterego: i find the way to install module, i am going on with the rest of install :$	18:48
Stskeeps	DawnFoster: let me check when i am at my hotel later	18:48
DawnFoster	Stskeeps: no hurry	18:48
npm	howcome the Meego SDK has qt-tools.x86_64, version 4.7.0-8.3 but the SDK has 4.7.1-1.1 Qt ?	18:48
muckymouse	zim!	18:48
Stskeeps	lbt: yes please	18:48
muckymouse	i think	18:48
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lbt	zim is cool	18:48
abstract3d	hm	18:48
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drizztbsd	hi	18:53
drizztbsd	can I make a call using meego 1.1 for n900?	18:53
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Stskeeps	yees	18:54
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drizztbsd	I only obtain aircraft mode	18:55
drizztbsd	or better, I have a plane near the battery icon :P	18:55
muckymouse	how come zypper is not showing any packages when i do something like sudo zypper search firefox?	18:56
npm	how about "fennec"	18:56
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abstract3d	please HELP!	18:57
abstract3d	http://pastebin.com/0ks4biMC error trying guide http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_SDK_Building_QEMU_Tools	18:57
abstract3d	i updated repos.d because they had wrong urls	18:58
abstract3d	but i still can't use zypper	18:58
abstract3d	-.-	18:58
tripzero	drizztbsd, the airplan usually means you have no sim card	18:58
tripzero	or that ofono is broken	18:58
drizztbsd	I have sim card and I used the nokia.com image	18:58
drizztbsd	maybe PIN is not supported or something else	18:58
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CosmoHill	hey Stskeeps, how's it going?	19:04
Alison_Chaiken	Hey dneary, have you ever run gitdm against the MeeGo repos? I think it would be an interesting way to make the point that MeeGo is a traditional multi-contributor Linux project like Gnome, for example. I'm interested in doing the work but don't want to duplicate effort.	19:04
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abstract3d	CosmoHill:	19:05
abstract3d	Stskeeps:	19:05
abstract3d	someone please help -.-	19:05
CosmoHill	my brain has just turned off	19:05
* drizztbsd cryes :P		19:06
CosmoHill	drizztbsd: *cries	19:06
drizztbsd	ops	19:06
abstract3d	repos.d/core.repo had inside	19:06
abstract3d	baseurl=http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/trunk/live/core/repos/ia32/packages/	19:06
abstract3d	gpgkey=file:///etc/pki/rpm-gpg/RPM-GPG-KEY-meego	19:06
abstract3d	that's fixed. it had baseurl=http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/trunk/**preview**/core/repos/ia32/packages/	19:06
abstract3d	i changed to live, now it should be ok to take packages	19:07
dm8tbr	plopp	19:07
abstract3d	but i am still taking the msg	19:07
CosmoHill	does it have the *** in it?	19:07
abstract3d	i did zypper refresh but nothing happened	19:07
dm8tbr	alterego, lcuk - you guys need something currently?	19:07
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CosmoHill	lu dm8tbr	19:07
abstract3d	CosmoHill: no. it had /preview/ instead of /live/ etc	19:07
dm8tbr	hoho CosmoHill	19:07
CosmoHill	ah okay, I was gonna say it's not a valid URL	19:07
lcuk	dm8tbr, checking I have all ingredients to make a curry, but I think I am out of chicken, do you have some?	19:08
* dm8tbr just saw 'Rare Exports' in the cinema <3		19:08
abstract3d	CosmoHill: it wasn't valid url, but i changed	19:08
dm8tbr	best movie I've seen in a while	19:08
abstract3d	but it still can't read repo	19:08
dm8tbr	lcuk: actually yes, come down and get it. I have some in the freezer	19:08
abstract3d	i will kill myself please help (!)	19:08
lcuk	hmm frozen chicken, not got any fresh?	19:08
lcuk	curry flavour ice lollies, yum!	19:09
CosmoHill	abstract3d: I won't be able to help you for multiple reasons (list available upon request)	19:09
drizztbsd	btw I'm using meego-handset-armv7l-n900-final-mod-1.1.0.0.20101101.3-mmcblk0p.raw.bz2	19:09
CosmoHill	sorry	19:09
Stskeeps	dm8tbr: was trying to find a showing with subtitles :P	19:09
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Stskeeps	drizztbsd: if you have a pin code on sim it wont work	19:09
timoph	dm8tbr: I saw it yesterday. liked it alot	19:09
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alterego	dm8tbr: ?	19:10
abstract3d	i just don't know for what reason it ignores the change of repo	19:10
dneary	Alison_Chaiken, No, I haven't	19:10
drizztbsd	Stskeeps: oh ok	19:10
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abstract3d	alterego: ping	19:10
drizztbsd	i'm removing it	19:10
dneary	Alison_Chaiken, So knock yourself out :)	19:10
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Alison_Chaiken	dneary, I'll give it a try and see how it comes out.	19:10
abstract3d	alterego: i am trying to install qemu from source. i am chrooted with mic	19:10
dneary	My one quick tip is that gitdm works on git logs	19:10
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dneary	And you can concatenate the logs from different repositories to do big overviews, instead of having to do module by module	19:11
abstract3d	i am trying to do "zypper remove kernel-mrst" zypper remove kernel-mrst	19:11
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alterego	abstract3d: why not run it natively?	19:11
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abstract3d	but it seems that repositories were but	19:11
dneary	That's what I had to do to get overall GNOME figures	19:11
alterego	Not sure what you want the chroot for ;)	19:11
abstract3d	alterego:	19:11
abstract3d	baseurl=http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/trunk/live/core/repos/ia32/packages/	19:11
abstract3d	gpgkey=file:///etc/pki/rpm-gpg/RPM-GPG-KEY-meego	19:11
abstract3d	previously, it had preview instead of live	19:12
alterego	abstract3d: this isn't really something I can help you with sorry :/	19:12
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abstract3d	i fixed url, but i cannot get zypper workin	19:12
alterego	I've not setup chroot of meego for a meego dev env. I've only ever build the components myself or used debs.	19:12
abstract3d	and this #opensuse channel is dead	19:12
alterego	Heh	19:12
alterego	dm8tbr: what do you mean am I looking for something? :P	19:13
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dm8tbr	alterego: lcuk said you might be interested in my experience of running a boot menu for choosing userspace out of an initrd	19:13
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alterego	dm8tbr: I maybe yes, I'll let you know if it comes to that ;)	19:14
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dm8tbr	Stskeeps: yeah, that's hard. we had to take 3 international student clubs from all the universities here and order an individual showing	19:15
dm8tbr	alterego: ok :)	19:15
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alterego	How do I access http://developer.meego.com/ ?	19:15
alterego	Is it not public yet?	19:15
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timoph	meego:password	19:15
alterego	Ah :)	19:16
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alterego	doesn't seem to want to work ..	19:16
timoph	beta, they're hiding it from search engines	19:16
Stskeeps	meego:developer	19:16
alterego	Thanks Stskeeps :)	19:16
CosmoHill	that worked	19:16
alterego	Ooo, pretty.	19:16
timoph	ah. remembered it wrong :/	19:16
CosmoHill	I like the website :)	19:17
CosmoHill	very nice design	19:17
timoph	yep. that looks good	19:17
alterego	I don't like how the banner header moves down when you hover a section	19:17
abstract3d	OMG	19:17
abstract3d	#OPENSUSE ARE IDIOTS?	19:18
abstract3d	I AM ASKING HELP FOR ZYPER	19:18
msvb1	I didn't even know about developer.meego.com. Do we (those with general meego accounts) all have access to it?	19:18
abstract3d	AND THEY ARE TELLING TO ME THAT THEY DONT GIVE HELP FOR MEEGO	19:18
timoph	please don't shout that to us	19:18
abstract3d	THATS NOT MEEGO RELATED ONLY STUFF FOR GOD	19:18
abstract3d	-.-	19:18
Stskeeps	abstract3d: please stop shouting, you'll wake the zombies	19:18
abstract3d	Stskeeps: arent they idiots?	19:19
alterego	Who's running the fremantle obs taskforce? :)	19:19
alterego	abstract3d: who knows, but still, tone it down a bit in here ;)	19:19
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alterego	all caps is very distracting	19:19
abstract3d	alterego: yeah you are right, sorry for that, but he is like a little baby	19:19
abstract3d	"oh no i don't give meego support"	19:20
alterego	Heh	19:20
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alterego	Try to keep your questions specific to zypper then and don't mention meego ;)	19:20
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alterego	People love to cop off when something is marginally off topic, it's a good justification or not having to do anything :)	19:21
* CosmoHill puts a hat on abstract3d before he goes back into #opensuse		19:21
timoph	:)	19:21
alterego	Heh	19:21
CosmoHill	I've never told anyone to sod off because they had a non LFS related problem >.>	19:21
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alterego	Anyhow, who's working on obs for fremantle?	19:21
abstract3d	http://pastebin.com/P5vGYc2H <-------------------------	19:22
alterego	abstract3d: and _definitely_ don't mention you're using gentoo ..	19:22
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timoph	alterego: lbt?	19:22
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abstract3d	look at this noobs	19:22
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abstract3d	this noob specific	19:22
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abstract3d	what the fuck i wish his CPU to take fire and his PSU die forever	19:23
abstract3d	and all PSU that he will try	19:23
dm8tbr	alterego: please, tone down your language, KTX	19:24
alterego	dm8tbr: I don't htink you mean me :P	19:24
dm8tbr	alterego: sorry	19:24
dm8tbr	abstract3d: please, tone down your language, KTX	19:24
abstract3d	dm8tbr: kk it was the last one about these guys	19:24
alterego	Heh	19:24
dm8tbr	alterego: obvious tab-complete-fail :/	19:24
alterego	I think that's the second time that's happened to me in the past two days :P	19:24
CosmoHill	we have a swear jar in the channel I run	19:24
CosmoHill	we've not figured out how to get the bot to count the number of coins you've put in it	19:25
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alterego	CosmoHill: grep someswearword \| wc -l	19:26
alterego	:)	19:26
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abstract3d	omfg	19:26
abstract3d	my head.. -.-	19:26
abstract3d	i can see 3 or 4 screens comeout from my laptop -.-	19:27
alterego	abstract3d: calm down, have a cup of tea, take a break and come back in half an hour :P	19:27
CosmoHill	abstract3d: pics!	19:27
slonopotamus	abstract3d: i agree with that man. #opensuse is for opensuse-specific questions.	19:27
abstract3d	slonopotamus: i asked something about zypper	19:27
abstract3d	not config file and init.d files etc	19:27
slonopotamus	abstract3d: so? ask on #zypper or whatever	19:28
slonopotamus	abstract3d: do you ask libtool questions in #darwin just because they happen to use libtool too?	19:28
CosmoHill	screwed up logic: "Due to the random nature of the string generation and mutation the best case scenario is one and the worst case is infinity. If the program used a float instead of an integer the worse case would be a bigger infinity. "	19:28
Alison_Chaiken	dneary, thanks for the tip about concatenation. I'll have at the git logs.	19:28
abstract3d	slonopotamus: if i have a problem with APT i will ask @DEBIAN if @UBUNTU they didn't answered me	19:29
slonopotamus	abstract3d: on kde questions on #anime just because there should be some people there who uses kde	19:29
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slonopotamus	s/on kde/or kde/	19:29
infobot	slonopotamus meant: abstract3d: or kde questions on #anime just because there should be some people there who uses kde	19:29
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CosmoHill	I think this channel is pretty lax about the on topic rule. I've only seen it enforced when there are trolls about	19:30
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abstract3d	does anyone know how to add/remove repos with ZYPPER?	19:33
Stskeeps	/etc/zypp/repos.d ?	19:34
abstract3d	i did	19:34
abstract3d	but how to update zypper to use them?	19:34
abstract3d	i tried zypper refresh but same issue again	19:34
Stskeeps	zypper up?	19:34
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Stskeeps	besides that, there's a zypper cheatsheet, or 'man zypper'	19:34
abstract3d	Stskeeps: no that is like apt-get upgrade	19:35
dm8tbr	zypper refresh?	19:35
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abstract3d	dm8tbr: didnt worked	19:37
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dm8tbr	abstract3d: read the manpage then	19:38
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abstract3d	hm.. i fixed handset repo	19:46
abstract3d	but not others -.-	19:46
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CosmoHill	abstract3d: have some relaxing music : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0azxS5FTpY&feature=related	19:47
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abstract3d	CosmoHill: maybe it was because of Children of bodom :$	19:48
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lcuk	hmm what a nice facepalm for widgetsgallery, rotating orientation 180degrees	19:50
lcuk	and enabling fps view shows it upside down	19:50
npm	http://wiki.meego.com/SDK/Docs/1.1/Setting_up_N900_device says "Download MeeGo image from http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/ > folder 1.0.99 >"	19:50
npm	shouldn't that be "folder 1.1.(	19:50
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timoph	1.1.x > 1.0.99	19:51
timoph	so true anyway	19:51
npm	oh i thought that was a typo for <placeholder>	19:53
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npm	also there's too many conflicting duplicated pages for the same thing http://meego.com/devices/handset/installing-meego-nokia-n900 from http://meego.com/downloads/releases/1.1/meego-v1.1-handset	19:54
abstract3d	all repositories fine right now (YEAH!)	19:54
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npm	versus http://wiki.meego.com/SDK/Docs/1.1 --> http://wiki.meego.com/SDK/Docs/1.1/Setting_up_N900_device	19:55
Stskeeps	lcuk: http://imgur.com/Q0IsE	19:55
abstract3d	also, repos.d/*.repo had /preview/ wich is not available	19:55
abstract3d	http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/trunk/ <- no preview	19:55
abstract3d	so i changed it to /daily/	19:56
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abstract3d	after that zypper modifyrepo -e $REPO_URL	19:56
abstract3d	and after enabling all url, zypper refresh	19:56
lcuk	Stskeeps, o_O	19:56
abstract3d	i have to start bloging for all those stuff and file some bug reports :$	19:57
timoph	abstract3d: you could add that to wiki in case someone else has same issues	19:57
abstract3d	timoph: in this document that i am trying to follow?	19:57
abstract3d	http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_SDK_Building_QEMU_Tools	19:57
abstract3d	can i edit this one directly? i don't want to mess up things	19:58
timoph	add a troubleshooting section or something	19:58
timoph	wiki has a revision system so if you mess up the page can be restored :)	19:59
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* lcuk giggles at the dancing screen		20:00
abstract3d	hm i can't login @wiki	20:01
timoph	are you logged in at meego.com	20:01
abstract3d	yes	20:01
timoph	try logging out from there first	20:02
CosmoHill	log out and log in again	20:02
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abstract3d	nop..	20:04
abstract3d	nevermind	20:04
pupnik	"Developers celebrate Halloween and Christmas together because Oct(31) == Dec(25)"	20:04
abstract3d	i will finish with that and after i will add the troubleshooting section	20:04
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abstract3d	btw	20:06
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abstract3d	meego, has to pass to its users to use Bugtracker and post their solutions	20:06
abstract3d	i can find various solution inside forum & mailing lists archives, that should to be @wiki	20:07
abstract3d	lot of people won't search inside mailing lists etc.. so we have to make easier for some of them to find those usefull info	20:07
abstract3d	indeed this period	20:08
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dm8tbr	lbt: could you enable cobs for me and obko? we'll be looking into building some glue packages for the Archos gen7 and gen8 devices	20:08
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timoph	you could start a task force to get the stuff into wiki	20:08
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lbt	dm8tbr: done	20:09
abstract3d	i will tell about that @next office meeting	20:10
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timoph	would be a great contribution IMO	20:10
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mihero	0272ff0	20:11
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abstract3d	oh no...	20:11
abstract3d	/tmp/handset/boot/extlinux is device /dev/mapper/loop0p1	20:11
abstract3d	Segmentation fault	20:11
abstract3d	after extlinux --install /tmp/handset/boot/extlinux	20:11
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lolloo	can someone of you kind people link me to instructions how to install MeeGo SDK N900 on windows 7 ?	20:13
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dm8tbr	lbt: thanks bow	20:15
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slaine	lolloo: have you looked on the website for the details ?	20:20
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slaine	lolloo: http://wiki.meego.com/SDK/Docs/1.1/Getting_started_with_the_MeeGo_SDK_for_Windows	20:20
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abstract3d	alterego: so, i build qemu, but i don't have rotate etc options :/	20:28
lolloo	slaine, Thank you my good man.	20:29
lolloo	slaine, this is for N900 too?	20:30
* CosmoHill glares at his printer drivers		20:31
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alterego	abstract3d: you need the emulator "skin" files I think.	20:47
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msvb1	Has anyone successfully downloaded the splashtop zip file to try setting up quickstart on the ideapad?	21:02
msvb1	The filename is lv_2010x.zip but there's big problems in downloading it.	21:02
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msvb1	Others have written in the mailing list that it took about a fully day to download, and finally the transfer failed.	21:03
msvb1	…so it seems that the Splashtop folks are not buying enough capacity or something.	21:03
msvb1	And it may even be that the zip file they provide on their servers is corrupt (on their servers as well.)	21:04
nbrouard	Hi, when executing widgetsgallery, I got a lot of errors/warning. The first one is "GConf-WARNING **: Directory `/meegotouch/i18n/lc_telephone' was not being monitored by GConfClient". Does someone know what's wrong? I use the ubuntu package meegotouch-demos-widgetsgallery from "Forum Nokia Qt PPA".	21:04
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* lcuk smiles at sabotage :)		21:15
ali1234	msvb1: splashtop sucks anyway...	21:15
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ali1234	it's only "quick" compared to a completely screwed windows install	21:16
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msvb1	ali1234: Okay, then I'll forget about trying to download and install splashtop.	21:20
msvb1	ali1234: Is that what you reccommend?	21:20
msvb1	ali1234: I'm actually quite relieved with the advice, because nobody looks forward to repartitioning the hard drive of a working system.	21:21
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msvb1	Now the problem becomes, 'how to safely hack the ideapad BIOS to make the quickstart hardware generic?'	21:22
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ali1234	there isn't really anything special about splashtop and "quickstart"	21:22
ali1234	as far as i can tell it just skips the memory test and shows a different splash screen, then boots splashtop exactly the same way as any other OS	21:23
msvb1	How do you use the quickstart button without splashtop then?	21:23
ali1234	you mean the recovery button?	21:24
msvb1	You mean I can create a new partition (of any size and type) on the hard drive in the position where the ideapad BIOS expects, and pressing the quickstart button will start the OS on that partition?	21:24
ali1234	almost certainly yes	21:24
ali1234	you might need a signed bootloader or some stupid thing like that	21:24
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msvb1	Okay, sorry it seems I've confused two hardware buttons.	21:24
msvb1	I was under the impression that there was a 'quickstart' button near the recovery button.	21:25
ali1234	i'm not sure what the quickstart button is, you mean the button at the top left of the keyboard?	21:25
ali1234	directly above escape	21:25
ali1234	there's no other buttons around there except the ones on the screen, which are mute, rotate and something else i'm not sure what...	21:26
msvb1	ali1234: Yes, two of them are very clear (mute and rotate.)	21:26
msvb1	ali1234: I think the third is 'recovery'.	21:26
ali1234	no, recovery is the one on the keyboard above escape	21:26
ali1234	lemme check the manual :)	21:26
msvb1	ali1234: Ah you're right. Its so small that I never noticed it before.	21:27
msvb1	ali1234: So that's the fabled 'recovery' button that I've heard about.	21:27
ali1234	ok, on the screen is "lenovo natural touch", rotate, mute	21:27
ali1234	and the recovery button above escape is also known as the "onekey rescue system button"	21:28
ali1234	it probably boots splashtop to do the recovery	21:28
msvb1	What the heck is 'natural touch', oh my what a waste it is with these marketing processes and sales terms.	21:28
ali1234	but splashtop is not magic, it doesn't actually boot any faster than any other linux distro	21:28
ali1234	i dunno what natural touch is, it probably just launches the lenovo settings or something	21:29
msvb1	And even more, how to access this hardware and what it should do in a generic operating sytem (MeeGo for example.)	21:29
ali1234	someone was working on getting the buttons working	21:29
msvb1	Well the bigger issue is to avoid having hardware which we can't use (because the OS does not support it.)	21:29
ali1234	the rotate button is actually physically prevented from working unless the screen is rotated into tablet mode	21:29
msvb1	ali1234: Yes, I've seen that and checked it out.	21:30
ali1234	since we all wiped the recovery partition when installing meego there is no way to find out how it works, unless someone didn't wipe and can upload the disk image	21:31
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msvb1	ali1234: Okay as long as we're happy using the rotate button for rotation then that policy (hardware prevention) is not so bad.	21:31
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msvb1	Well it (or its config) is probably written in the BIOS, which can be edited. That's the job for a really bored developer, though. Or a really hard worker.	21:32
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sphinxxx	hey anyone a jolicloud user? i've been using it but thinking about switching over to meego	21:33
ali1234	if all else fails, load up the bios in your favourite disassembler/debugger	21:33
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msvb1	ali1234: Right, and work about a few days until it's clear that you've bricked hundreds worth of hardware and then give up… Not a nice job to do.	21:34
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ali1234	nah, you don't need to edit the bios	21:35
ali1234	just look what it expects and provide it, in terms of partitioning	21:35
msvb1	ali1234: …or install a windows OS and work a few days more using a very expensive and proprietary BIOS editor, and then give up after that too.	21:35
lolloo	it's so hard just installing MeeGo SDK on windows For my N900!	21:35
lolloo	there is no straight way or what?	21:36
msvb1	ali1234: I almost have the feeling that there's some special logic in the BIOS to prevent easy usage of the quickstart button.	21:36
ali1234	probably, yes	21:36
lolloo	I just want to run hello world on n900 and its taking me ages!!	21:36
ali1234	but bios by nature is not complex	21:36
ali1234	if you want to use it within software that's probably out of the question	21:37
msvb1	ali1234: I'd be really surprised if pushing that quickstart button checked if there is a bootloader on partition 'N' and then load and execute it.	21:37
ali1234	but to make it work as a recovery button somehow without the lenovo recovery image should be easy	21:37
ali1234	well... that's exactly what it does	21:37
ali1234	try pressing it	21:37
ali1234	it will say "recovery partition not found" and then hang	21:37
ali1234	or something like that	21:37
ali1234	you have to turn off and hold it for 30 seconds or something	21:38
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msvb1	Hmm. Maybe worth testing.	21:38
lcuk	i thought it was equiv of the thinkvantage button on older thinkpads	21:38
msvb1	If it does turn out to be easy to manipulate, then it would be really nice to use.	21:38
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msvb1	…for example booting into single user mode.	21:39
ali1234	lcuk: seems like it, yes	21:39
lcuk	msvb1, ? how about actually finding a way to make it work as intended	21:39
msvb1	What's 'thinkvantage'? I hate this kind of confusing marketing dialekt.	21:39
lcuk	as a recovery	21:39
lolloo	why do I have to be a linux pro to just program an app on meego on N900?	21:39
lcuk	msvb1, learn to thinkpad	21:39
lolloo	why isnt there compatibilty for windows!	21:40
lcuk	http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/ThinkVantage_Button	21:40
Stskeeps	DawnFoster: are you using the raw mailing list mboxes or the '.gz' ones for your mailing list metrics?	21:40
msvb1	lcuk: I have it on my list (find a way to make it work as intended), but the ideapad is in use right now.	21:40
lcuk	sure msvb1 i have one as well	21:41
msvb1	lcuck: I'm going to wait a few hours until the kernels are finished building.	21:41
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* sabotage blushes at lcuk's smiles		21:42
msvb1	lcuk: What question are you answering (youre I have one as well?)	21:42
lcuk	"whats thinkvantage" was your question	21:43
msvb1	lcuk: Ah you mean you have a thinkpad as well?	21:43
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msvb1	lcuk: Okay.	21:43
lcuk	i have multiple thinkpads	21:43
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lcuk	have a nice 12" x41 that was very first tablet prototype :)	21:43
msvb1	lcuk: Put them next to each other and push their recovery buttons in order.	21:43
lcuk	well, big one anyway ;)	21:43
timoph	great. the ideapad's battery won't charge anymore :/	21:43
lcuk	and a work x200s :)	21:43
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lcuk	timakima, oph take it out	21:43
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lcuk	reset bios	21:44
lcuk	because your wifi and bt will be gone also	21:44
lcuk	timoph, ^	21:44
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msvb1	Gotta go, its dinnertime. Chao.	21:44
DawnFoster	Stskeeps: not sure what mlstats uses, but I know there are some issues with the files, so I'm going to verify message counts & other data before reporting	21:44
timoph	thanks, I'll try that	21:44
lcuk	timoph, you actually have to remove battery tho	21:44
mwichmann	timpoh: you tried reseating it? pretty much all netbooks have trouble with contacts, cheaply made	21:44
lcuk	it simply loses track of where its upto :S	21:45
lcuk	and wont charge	21:45
Stskeeps	DawnFoster: k - just curious as i'm trying to sketch up a way to implement alice/meego@meego.com idea in practice and using existing infrastructure would be good :)	21:45
Stskeeps	DawnFoster: IRC stats in ~10 mins, btw	21:45
DawnFoster	Stskeeps: sweet, thanks!	21:45
DawnFoster	Stskeeps: I'd be curious if people are any more likely to use alice instead of the mailing lists	21:46
kp	I have a local OBS setup and running. I am trying to build a meego kernel. I have made a project and added kernel sources. Now i need to select the distribution for which i have to built. Meaning I have to add repo. In obs there are are standard distros available but is there anythin specific like meego distro.	21:46
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lcuk	timoph, i did not know how to describe it in a bug report that wasnt strange or hand wavey	21:46
kyb3R	Myrtti: ping	21:46
Myrtti	kyb3R: pong	21:47
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RST38h	btw, how much disk space a local obs setup takes?	21:48
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Stskeeps	DawnFoster: i'm wondering that too as that observation could be useful in a lot of different projects	21:48
timoph	I'll play with it in the morning and see if it still lives	21:49
kp	RST38h: I have opensuse running I have 250GB space. But they say its good to have atleast 90GB	21:49
Stskeeps	DawnFoster: http://stskeeps.subnetmask.net/irc/data/irssistats.nov.html	21:49
Stskeeps	lcuk: you're officially talking more than me	21:50
lcuk	thats not difficult	21:50
timoph	lcuk's a bot :)	21:50
lcuk	I actually thought I had cut down on lines generated too ;)	21:51
DawnFoster	seeing a few names I don't remember seeing on that list before the conference	21:51
kp	I have a local OBS setup and running. I am trying to build a meego kernel. I have made a project and added kernel sources. Now i need to select the distribution for which i have to built. Meaning I have to add repo. In obs there are are standard distros available but is there anythin specific like meego distro	21:52
DawnFoster	I see additional data gathering in my future :)	21:52
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abstract3d	alterego: ok thanks i will search for that after	21:52
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abstract3d	cu people in arround 2 hours later	21:53
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RST38h	kp: You mean OBS takes 90GB?	21:56
Stskeeps	RST38h: ~5gb worth of binary packages for a release, afaik	21:56
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Stskeeps	RST38h: a chroot can easily take ~2gb	21:56
Stskeeps	ie, a build job work space	21:56
RST38h	10GB then?	21:56
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Stskeeps	adjust your own parameters :P	21:57
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andregomes	Is it possible to create a customized meego madde target/toolchain?	21:59
lcuk	with infinite keyboards and monkeys, anything is possible	21:59
GAN900	Top 15?!	22:00
* GAN900 clearly doesn't talk that much.		22:00
lcuk	GAN900, is your linecount low?	22:00
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GAN900	500-something	22:02
GAN900	Too high	22:02
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kp	I don't have Meego trunk in my local obs. how can i add it?	22:08
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alterego	Heh,	22:31
Stskeeps	mm?	22:32
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haro	I am trying to add link from the existing package to my OBS Project [ refered : http://wiki.meego.com/Build_Infrastructure/Packagers_Developers/WebUI_part_2 ], But I was not able to create link from the existing package, throws "Unable to find package 'bash' in project 'MeeGo:1.0:Core'" error ... can someone help me to figure out the correct package name.	22:34
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haro	I am trying to add link from the existing package to my OBS Project [ refered : http://wiki.meego.com/Build_Infrastructure/Packagers_Developers/WebUI_part_2 ], But I was not able to create link from the existing package, throws "Unable to find package 'bash' in project 'MeeGo:1.0:Core'" error ... can someone help me to figure out the correct package name.	22:44
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Stskeeps	no need to repeat, but consider http://wiki.meego.com/User:Stskeeps/10_easy_steps_to_a_local_OBS	22:44
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haro	Stskeeps: thank you very much ...	22:48
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niala	:j #qt-fr	23:26
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dm8tbr	hmm, out of curiosity, how hard would it be to take MeeGo and rebuild it without the SSSE2 flag? is that likely to break major things?	23:52
Stskeeps	ssse3	23:52
dm8tbr	err, sorry	23:52
dm8tbr	it's getting late	23:52
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dm8tbr	I know I'd need quite some CPU-power and time. I'm just looking at it as something that might be nice to see how to handle such loads.	23:53
dm8tbr	Add/remove some workers on the way etc.	23:53
dm8tbr	side-effect would be that I'd have a snapshot that could be installed on 'older' hardware	23:54
Stskeeps	i guess theoretically you can do the same like we did hardfp, build the base set of packages	23:54
Stskeeps	and then build rest using that set	23:54
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dm8tbr	ok, is the boot-strap process documented somewhere?	23:55
Stskeeps	no, but i can get you a list of packages :P	23:56
dm8tbr	I guess that would help ;)	23:56
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Stskeeps	but now i should sleep	23:56
dm8tbr	btw: taking it one step further, would it be theoretically possible to make that obs instance stay in sync with public meego?	23:56
dm8tbr	so it would pull in changed sources and rebuild as necessary	23:57
dm8tbr	ok, gn8 Stskeeps, thanks for the direction :)	23:57
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