| andre__ | I'm still wondering how to update that image on the Ideapad - does the update process work / will I get notified in the UI? | 00:00 |
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| * notmart still has the default one that came in the usb key | 00:01 | |
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| notmart | a zypper update should do the job tough | 00:02 |
| niala | andre__: yes a popup appear if update need | 00:02 |
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| timoph | notmart: cool | 00:02 |
| niala | notmart: or you can verify with "zypper updzte" | 00:02 |
| andre__ | hmm. have a command handy? | 00:02 |
| andre__ | ah | 00:02 |
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| rhkfin | Meego & N900 - what are the biggest problems at the moment to be able to use it as a phone | 00:13 |
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| andre__ | rhkfin: bugzilla.meego.com and query for critical / blocker in phone related areas? | 00:41 |
| rhkfin | ok, thanks! | 00:42 |
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| rhkfin | Going through http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Install/MMC now - flasher uploads the kernel, I see some text on the screen but with no backlight -> not really readable. Yellow led is on. Any pointers..? Is this normal, do I need to wait longer or did something fail? | 01:06 |
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| rhkfin | Last line says "stdoops: ready 5, 6, (no erase)" | 01:11 |
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| Tormis | do you have back cover in place? | 01:13 |
| rhkfin | yes | 01:13 |
| rhkfin | got more light to be able to read better.. | 01:13 |
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| rhkfin | It tries to load MMC and recognizes it but fails: | 01:13 |
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| rhkfin | cannot open root device mmcblk0p1 | 01:14 |
| rhkfin | please append a correct root= boot option: here are the available partitions | 01:14 |
| Tormis | which build you are using? | 01:15 |
| rhkfin | then there's a list of mtdblocks.. | 01:15 |
| rhkfin | meego-handset-armv7l-n900-1.1.80.7.20101119.1. | 01:15 |
| Tormis | some builds before 1.1 release didn't boot, not sure about newest | 01:16 |
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| rhkfin | hmm.. ok.. Maybe I'll try 1.1.. | 01:17 |
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| Tormis | it should work :) | 01:18 |
| rhkfin | right, thanks! | 01:19 |
| Tormis | and backlight stays on while booting if device is in RD mode | 01:19 |
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| rhkfin | RD? | 01:23 |
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| Tormis | http://wiki.maemo.org/R%26D_mode | 01:24 |
| rhkfin | research & destroy, ok :) | 01:24 |
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| rhkfin | Need to finish for today.. Thanks, will report back later.. | 01:25 |
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| Tormis | yeah, time to sleep | 01:26 |
| test34 | if I want to know which devices / cell phone carriers have meego, what is a good place? | 01:27 |
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| vicarious- | Hi, okay so I'm running meego v1.1 in a vm...its pretty cool, but....how do I shutdown? | 01:51 |
| WIIman | whats the best way to install wine on meego netbook 1.1 the suse rpm fails to install | 01:51 |
| WIIman | powerbutton | 01:52 |
| vicarious- | what power button? | 01:52 |
| WIIman | thats the way you do it on a real install | 01:52 |
| WIIman | press powerbuttun and it askes to shutdown or not | 01:52 |
| WIIman | give like 30 seconds to answer | 01:53 |
| WIIman | not sure in vm | 01:53 |
| vicarious- | power button? like the actual power button the device? or some sort of software button? | 01:53 |
| WIIman | on a real install on device powerbotton | 01:53 |
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| WIIman | power button triggers the shutdown script | 01:54 |
| vicarious- | do you mean the physical power button on the hardware? yes/no? | 01:54 |
| CosmoHill | vicarious-: in a VM just sent it the shutdown command | 01:55 |
| niala | vicarious-: a term and shutdown or shutdown the vm | 01:55 |
| WIIman | please read my above answers | 01:55 |
| CosmoHill | iirc it's under file on virtualbox | 01:55 |
| WIIman | vbox may have a software powerbutton i dont know i run it on a actual install | 01:56 |
| CosmoHill | close your VM | 01:56 |
| CosmoHill | it will ask you what you want to do | 01:56 |
| vicarious- | WIIman: yes, I've read them, now can you just respond with a yes or no to the clarifying question: do you mean in a normal meego install use the physical power button on the hardware to shutdown? | 01:56 |
| CosmoHill | one of them is send the shutdown command | 01:56 |
| WIIman | arg "yes" the REAL power botton | 01:57 |
| niala | yes | 01:57 |
| vicarious- | thank you | 01:57 |
| WIIman | or in vm as above stated by another close vm | 01:59 |
| Mikho | Could somebody tell me which packages do I need to install in order to have mp3 and ogv playback? | 01:59 |
| WIIman | comuity repos enabled | 02:00 |
| WIIman | google will lead you to the repo | 02:00 |
| niala | no package for mp3 you need compil gstreamer plugins | 02:00 |
| vicarious- | By the way, I'm actually running meego in a vmware vm | 02:00 |
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| vicarious- | its quite interesting | 02:00 |
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| WIIman | im running meego as a real install on hd its very nice with the real hardware | 02:01 |
| WIIman | im on a dell mini 10 1012 | 02:01 |
| WIIman | it even sees my 3g card | 02:02 |
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| Mikho | WIIman, the ftp://volkoff.ru one? | 02:03 |
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| WIIman | http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=1451 | 02:11 |
| Mikho | right | 02:11 |
| Mikho | thanks for the tip | 02:11 |
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| WIIman | GOOGLE SERCH = MEEGO COMUNITY REPO the first google link is it | 02:12 |
| WIIman | np | 02:12 |
| WIIman | sorry caps was on by accident | 02:12 |
| Mikho | yes. I had found that earlier, but thought it was something different, since it's just a forum thread and not a more "stable" location | 02:14 |
| Mikho | kind of expected that the installation would have more features enabled out-of-the-box, such as jpg viewing | 02:14 |
| WIIman | iit works fine i use it | 02:14 |
| Mikho | ok, I'll use that then | 02:14 |
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| WIIman | p7zip is NOT in the repo though beware of that | 02:15 |
| WIIman | so far thats the only issue i had | 02:15 |
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| Mikho | has anyone had problems with the meego netbook recovering from hibernation? Sometimes the screen just goes blank and the system hangs | 02:20 |
| niala | Mikho: yes, it's a know issue response in forum you must unmount /media/* | 02:21 |
| Mikho | I see. Thanks :) | 02:21 |
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| WIIman | havnt had that issue affter recovering from lid open | 02:21 |
| WIIman | so far | 02:21 |
| Mikho | just a moment ago, I closed the lid, waited the netbook to power down, opened it and got the password screen. Closed it again and it didn't recover from that | 02:22 |
| WIIman | let me try | 02:23 |
| WIIman | worked fine here | 02:24 |
| Mikho | it doesn't seem to happen every time | 02:24 |
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| Termana | morning | 02:25 |
| WIIman | when netbook you have ? | 02:25 |
| WIIman | what even | 02:25 |
| Mikho | the one they gave in the conference | 02:25 |
| Mikho | lenovo S10-3t | 02:26 |
| niala | http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=238&highlight=umount+/media&page=2 down the page | 02:26 |
| niala | maybe... | 02:26 |
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| WIIman | ok we have differant netbooks so imay not have that issue | 02:29 |
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| Mikho | niala, thanks for the precise link | 02:32 |
| tybollt | what would be the latest snapshot of meego handset? | 02:32 |
| tybollt | available for download - that is ;) | 02:32 |
| test34 | where can I get a list of meego devices? | 02:33 |
| Mikho | I didn't mean I'm too lazy to look for the solution myself, but was thinking of trying the fix tomorrow :) | 02:33 |
| Termana | tybollt, http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/1.1.80/1.1.80.7.20101119.1/handset/images/ | 02:33 |
| tybollt | Termana: meci beaucop | 02:34 |
| Termana | test34, http://wiki.meego.com/Devices | 02:34 |
| test34 | thanks Termana ! | 02:35 |
| * WIIman feels like a pimp , been pushing meego in every linux chat i can lol | 02:36 | |
| vicarious- | does Meego compete with Android? they both appear on similar platforms: phones, tablets, and there's even an implementation of Android on a TV... | 02:36 |
| niala | Mikho: echo "umount /media/*" >>/usr/sbin/pm-suspend that's all | 02:36 |
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| korgoth | hello guys | 02:36 |
| WIIman | hi | 02:36 |
| vicarious- | hi | 02:36 |
| korgoth | i need some help getting meego running on my laptop | 02:36 |
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| test34 | vicarious-, I think they do but I also think meego is more open | 02:37 |
| korgoth | im trying to install it in virtualbox | 02:37 |
| korgoth | it booted ok first time and i finished the setup but when it rebooted | 02:37 |
| korgoth | it just hangs up on the background | 02:37 |
| korgoth | and nothing happens | 02:37 |
| tybollt | Termana: in that snap...is the video accel shitz integrated fully and wokring? | 02:38 |
| Termana | vicarious-, on the same level as we compete with iOS - we aren't specifically trying to compete, we're just making a good OS for the same segments of devices | 02:38 |
| tybollt | IIRC the video thingie has been problematic (at best) previously | 02:38 |
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| Termana | tybollt, yes the SGX driver is there, but not the newer driver which provides some speed increase (only because it hasn't been integrated in the MeeGo trunk yet) | 02:39 |
| vicarious- | how is meego more open? and how does meego differentiate itself from other similar OS's like Android or iOS? | 02:39 |
| WIIman | i say hardware suport and ui | 02:40 |
| Termana | tybollt, if you own an n900 and want to see the newer SGX drivers in action you can go to tablets-dev and download the demo image that people were using at the meego conference | 02:40 |
| korgoth | anyone? | 02:40 |
| vicarious- | WIIman: could you please elaborate? | 02:40 |
| Termana | vicarious-, for a start, Android is dominated and controlled by a single company - Google, where as MeeGo is a community effort | 02:40 |
| Termana | vicarious-, with Android, Google just throws code over the wall - in MeeGo you get to see development AS IT HAPPENS | 02:41 |
| GAN900 | Is wake from sleep just completely broken? | 02:41 |
| * GAN900 really hates this Netbook UX. | 02:41 | |
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| vicarious- | Termana: okay, that sounds nice and everything, but what does that mean to the consumer? | 02:41 |
| WIIman | well google isnt a hard ware vender like intell amd nokia so the three i mention suport meego apple is but theire os only works for apple devices | 02:41 |
| WIIman | then there is the user interace wich is uniqyie to others | 02:42 |
| Mikho | GAN900, scroll up a bit and see niala's link | 02:42 |
| Termana | vicarious-, MeeGo is different from other OSes like iOS and Android in that it provides a full GNU/Linux stack, good for users, good for developers, plus developers have the Qt framework which will make developing for multiple devices a hell of a lot easier | 02:43 |
| tybollt | Termana: "demo" meaning what? a full snap of meego? | 02:43 |
| test34 | Does a meego device usually have to be rooted? | 02:43 |
| Termana | vicarious-, for consumers for one it means that theoretically a consumer could get updates to the OS as soon as something is fixed rather than wait for it | 02:43 |
| WIIman | yeh qt dev is helpfull to | 02:43 |
| Termana | But I guess that one comes down to whether manufactures and carriers allow it | 02:43 |
| test34 | for example: do they try to prevent you from being root.. | 02:44 |
| Termana | test34, that's not really a MeeGo-dependant thing. A MeeGo device could be either or. | 02:44 |
| Termana | test34, there is nothing specific in MeeGo to encourage people to not be root | 02:44 |
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| vicarious- | Termana, okay, so users could upgrade their device to the latest version of the OS without waiting for the manufacturer or carrier to allow the upgrade, correct? | 02:44 |
| Termana | vicarious-, correct, as long as the manufacturer or carrier doesn't lock that functionality out | 02:45 |
| test34 | ok Termana .. I just dont want to buy a device where they try to block things that you could easily do.. | 02:45 |
| tybollt | ~tablets-dev | 02:45 |
| tybollt | :( | 02:45 |
| niala | vicarious-: and they can participate to devl | 02:45 |
| tybollt | :') | 02:45 |
| tybollt | :'( | 02:46 |
| Termana | test34, N900? Or Nokia have said they will provide the Maemo 6/Harmattan device as unsubsidised and unlocked | 02:46 |
| vicarious- | These are all interesting differences, but does meego have any competitive advantages in relation to other similar OS's (i.e. Android, iOS, etc.)? | 02:46 |
| test34 | Termana, that might be the best choice, do you know which carrier let you use the n900 ? | 02:47 |
| Termana | tybollt, demo meaning the newer SGX drivers got integrated into the image, for the demo purposes, since they aren't in the MeeGo trunk at the moment | 02:47 |
| vicarious- | I really wish the meego web site was clearer on this... | 02:47 |
| Termana | test34, you don't need carrier permission to use an N900 | 02:47 |
| tybollt | Termana: where do I find tablet-devs? | 02:47 |
| Termana | Hold on everybody, can only type so fast :p | 02:47 |
| test34 | Termana, but it needs to support the right frequencies and such | 02:47 |
| Termana | test34, correct | 02:47 |
| Termana | tybollt, http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/meego-codedrop.php | 02:48 |
| tybollt | danke schön | 02:48 |
| niala | vicarious-: what do you want more? coffe? :) | 02:48 |
| Termana | vicarious-, can you be a little more specific in what you mean by competitive advantages? | 02:48 |
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| test34 | http://www.nokiausa.com/find-products/phones/nokia-n900/specifications#hardware-of | 02:49 |
| Termana | vicarious-, your more likely to get games ported from iOS, because iOS uses C, using only Objective-C specific stuff for UI stuff. Whereas Android, to use C or C++ it's kind of a kludge and a hack so you really need to be using Java. Most of the C code will probably work with little effort on MeeGo | 02:50 |
| test34 | vicarious-, competitive advantage is probably mostly marketing ? | 02:50 |
| niala | vicarious-: in50 years Meego will have teleportation | 02:50 |
| Termana | Just something to think about in regards to MeeGo v Android | 02:51 |
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| berndhs | niala: but will have time travel in 40 years, so you can get teleportation ealier | 02:51 |
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| test34 | berndhs, but end of the world comes with time travel | 02:52 |
| vicarious- | okay, fair points, but why would a consumer electronics manufcturer use Meego on their devices instead of Android? | 02:52 |
| test34 | vicarious-, if they care about the user they should;) | 02:53 |
| Mikho | As far as I know, one thing people complain about android is that it uses more battery | 02:53 |
| Termana | vicarious-, increased openness for a start, breaking away from Google (in case you haven't noticed - a lot of manufactures want to do this) | 02:53 |
| Mikho | can offer no reference though | 02:53 |
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| WIIman | meego has been kind to my netbook battery | 02:53 |
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| Termana | vicarious-, more contributors, more rooms for innovation | 02:54 |
| Mikho | As far as my personal experiences go, java applications tend to be heavy on the system | 02:54 |
| Termana | vicarious-, the Android trademark vs trademark usage of MeeGo. | 02:55 |
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| test34 | Mikho, yes, java is heavy on my PC sometimes, so I can imagine on a phone | 02:55 |
| test34 | vicarious-, isnt google getting sued about Java too? | 02:55 |
| Termana | Under MeeGo you have to abide by an open set of trademark rules, for Android, Google has their own private set of rules for trademark usage, which they tell no one and if you do anything wrong by them, they won't let you use it | 02:55 |
| Termana | Breaking away from Google is really a big reason in and of itself for manufactures to be moving away from Android and to MeeGo | 02:56 |
| test34 | google and apple want to control you as much as they can | 02:56 |
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| vicarious- | okay, interesting...thanks! | 02:57 |
| test34 | I would go for a windows 7 phone before android I think.. but I would prefer meego | 02:57 |
| vicarious- | just a bit of constructive feedback: if meego is to be a successful platform, it will need a change of name to something more attractive...imho | 02:58 |
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| Mikho | vicarious-, I can't help but to agree :) | 02:59 |
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| Termana | vicarious-, Mikho: personally, I don't think that's the case. I don't think consumers care about the name | 03:00 |
| vicarious- | I think its importance should not be underestimated | 03:00 |
| Mikho | though I think google's naming schemes too are a bit silly | 03:00 |
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| Termana | And honestly I don't see the problem with the name MeeGo | 03:00 |
| Mikho | yes, I know it's just my personal opinion | 03:00 |
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| vicarious- | Mikho: at least they use actual words...words mind you with a positive impression in the minds of consumers...people don't even know what meego is. | 03:01 |
| Mikho | ah, I didn't mean to imply meego wouldn't succeed, just that I don't like the name very much | 03:01 |
| Termana | vicarious-, Android doesn't tell you what it is by it's name either | 03:02 |
| Termana | iOS? | 03:02 |
| Termana | No | 03:02 |
| Termana | iPhone - yes, I admit Apple was able to describe that one fairly good :p | 03:02 |
| test34 | nOS ? | 03:02 |
| vicarious- | Termana: People know the word Android and know pretty much what an android is... | 03:02 |
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| vicarious- | Termana: Ask 100 people what a Meego is...you may understand then. | 03:03 |
| Mikho | I might have a problem with unorthodox use of cApital letTers | 03:03 |
| Termana | vicarious-, only because the products have been there for a while, when it first came out, general consumers had no clue | 03:03 |
| test34 | meego is an immigrant going to the grocery store? | 03:03 |
| vicarious- | Termana: no, you are not understanding me: android is an actual word in the engish language, meego is not. | 03:04 |
| Mikho | I can't see the link between the meaning of word "android" and the OS | 03:04 |
| berndhs | if you tell people what meego is often enough, they will know | 03:04 |
| berndhs | and because it doesn't have another meaning, they won't misunderstand | 03:05 |
| vicarious- | no, you guys don't understand how marketing works... | 03:05 |
| Termana | vicarious-, iOS is not an english word. Plus what Mikho said - there is no relation to an automated human being robot and a mobile phone | 03:05 |
| WIIman | when i hear Meego i think ugg me go to store ug | 03:05 |
| WIIman | but its fun | 03:05 |
| WIIman | its sugests mobility | 03:06 |
| WIIman | me go | 03:06 |
| Termana | WIIman, the name leaves a lot of room for people to make fun of it. But I think that's ok | 03:06 |
| test34 | WIIman, sounds good | 03:06 |
| berndhs | termana: so does the Wii | 03:06 |
| vicarious- | that's right, there is no relation, there doesn't need to be, it just needs to be called a name that: 1) consumers are familiar with, and 2) a word that leaves a positive impression in the minds of consumers | 03:06 |
| WIIman | at least its not calles smeegol | 03:07 |
| WIIman | that is dont right theft | 03:07 |
| Termana | WIIman, :p | 03:07 |
| Mikho | WIIman, I know how you feel | 03:07 |
| vicarious- | WIIman: exactly | 03:07 |
| WIIman | theft og meego and theft of lotr | 03:07 |
| WIIman | novel should knnow better | 03:08 |
| test34 | meegone would be better? | 03:08 |
| WIIman | ill make distro call it susee just to piss them off | 03:08 |
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| leinir | WIIman: i take it you are aware of the difference between the opensuse community project and novel the company which bases their suse enterprise products on the work of the community? | 03:11 |
| leinir | because it sounds very much like you're not quite grasping that part of how opensuse works ;) | 03:11 |
| vicarious- | Normally, when a company launches a product/service with a made up name (i.e. Wii, etc.) they usually launch a multi-million dollar marketing campaign to build buzz about the product's name... | 03:11 |
| vicarious- | I don't see the organizations behind meego able to do that | 03:12 |
| test34 | vicarious-, nokia, intel and amd? | 03:12 |
| vicarious- | so best to just use a better name | 03:12 |
| berndhs | vicarious-: oh sure, Intel and Nokia are rank amateurs at all this marketing stuff | 03:12 |
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| Termana | heh | 03:12 |
| WIIman | i think empathy should suport irc so i dont need two multiprotcal clients | 03:12 |
| vicarious- | fair points | 03:13 |
| test34 | vicarious-, intel pays everybody to use their products | 03:13 |
| leinir | test34: yeah, because they're just tiny little things who have no idea about how to make a splash for something... i mean, noone here is likely to know neither the nokia tune or the intel chime ;) | 03:13 |
| WIIman | yeh i know the defrence | 03:13 |
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| test34 | leinir, exactly | 03:13 |
| Termana | vicarious-, also, when you launch a PRODUCT, you need a..... | 03:14 |
| Termana | PRODUCT | 03:14 |
| vicarious- | are intel and nokia actually going to launch a multi-million dollar marketing campaign for meego? If so, I haven't heard about it | 03:14 |
| niala | :) | 03:14 |
| Termana | Of which there is no product's currently shipping as MeeGo devices | 03:14 |
| WIIman | if intel realy wants meego to succeeed or nokia that it will thaty have the finantial power to do it | 03:14 |
| vicarious- | Termana: a fair point | 03:14 |
| test34 | vicarious-, AMD (competitor) even joined them I think | 03:14 |
| berndhs | whoever launches a product will launch a marketing campaign | 03:14 |
| Mikho | yes, based on the conference experience, it seems expensive alright | 03:15 |
| berndhs | there not much point now | 03:15 |
| leinir | test34: Yup, they joined in officially this Monday :) | 03:15 |
| vicarious- | so meego is not ready yet for a product launch? | 03:15 |
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| WIIman | and now amd is on board too | 03:15 |
| WIIman | meego will grow | 03:16 |
| test34 | leinir, hopefully meego's adoption will take off now | 03:16 |
| test34 | rate | 03:16 |
| WIIman | the netbook adaaption is fantastic | 03:16 |
| evdaemonia | hey, anyone care to help me out with some questions about meego? | 03:16 |
| WIIman | i can try | 03:16 |
| leinir | test34: *nods* i mean, we've long had two much more heavy competitors (ti and intel) working together on this, but the amd/intel thing is more sort of... press-friendly ;) | 03:16 |
| niala | vicarious-: is an opportunity to see the whole process from start | 03:16 |
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| Termana | evdaemonia, don't ask to ask, just ask :) | 03:17 |
| vicarious- | niala: huh? whole sentences... ;) use your words... ;) | 03:17 |
| evdaemonia | oh cool | 03:17 |
| evdaemonia | well, i tried to install MeeGo | 03:18 |
| vicarious- | evdaemonia: good...go on | 03:18 |
| evdaemonia | i first tried it off the USB on the MSI Wind (U100) and it seems fine | 03:18 |
| evdaemonia | it looks great and even plays sound | 03:18 |
| vicarious- | evdaemonia: good...go on | 03:18 |
| evdaemonia | mouse, keyboard, all work | 03:18 |
| evdaemonia | except no wireless | 03:18 |
| leinir | and now you'll say... yeah, wireless ;) | 03:18 |
| WIIman | did you config wireless | 03:18 |
| evdaemonia | it couldn't find any network nor was there an option for search for wireless, only bluetooth and wired :( | 03:19 |
| leinir | So, much fun with that stuff - i'm pretty sure there's some info about that on the forums (specifically for the msi wind 100) | 03:19 |
| test34 | leinir, yes, the 2 most well known.. they should probably make a commercial together;) I wonder if Arm is considering joining too | 03:19 |
| vicarious- | its been mentioned here that meego has a "full linux stack". I'm told this is important, but I don't know why. First, what is meant by a "full linux stack"? | 03:19 |
| Termana | test34, "I'm an Intel" "and I'm and AMD" | 03:19 |
| Termana | test34, :p | 03:19 |
| leinir | test34: They aren't officially involved, but with ti already on board... :) | 03:19 |
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| leinir | Termana: That'd be kind of lulz ;) | 03:20 |
| Termana | an AMD* | 03:20 |
| WIIman | try add new connection | 03:20 |
| evdaemonia | i cant | 03:20 |
| evdaemonia | it's greyed out | 03:20 |
| evdaemonia | :( | 03:20 |
| evdaemonia | anyway, that's only a minor problem... i was thinking of installing it | 03:21 |
| Mikho | I wasn't able to get the wireless working easily with the opensource usb stick | 03:21 |
| test34 | hehe Termana | 03:21 |
| evdaemonia | but then got into trouble... | 03:21 |
| WIIman | unsuported card maybe ? what wireless card ? i have atheros it works great | 03:21 |
| evdaemonia | i wanted manual dual boot with xp and of course i dont know enough about it | 03:21 |
| evdaemonia | so i stopped :( | 03:21 |
| evdaemonia | there's so many options (ext2, ext3, some other format i never heard of) | 03:22 |
| evdaemonia | anyone know an online guide for manual install? | 03:22 |
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| niala | evdaemonia: have you try in 'live' ? | 03:22 |
| WIIman | yeh it can boot live | 03:23 |
| test34 | vicarious-, I think it means that any linux app will work without problems | 03:23 |
| evdaemonia | yes, i just spend 5 mins saying i have | 03:23 |
| evdaemonia | it all works great, except the wireless :( | 03:23 |
| evdaemonia | i need help with partition table :( | 03:23 |
| test34 | vicarious-, so basically you dont need an app store, because most apps already exist | 03:24 |
| vicarious- | i see | 03:24 |
| evdaemonia | meego uses yum ? | 03:24 |
| Mikho | rpm:s, yes | 03:25 |
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| leinir | meego uses zypper | 03:25 |
| Mikho | what's the difference? | 03:25 |
| evdaemonia | is it still '> zypper install xxxxx'? | 03:25 |
| test34 | vicarious-, but you can still have an app store to make it easier for the users... | 03:26 |
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| Termana | vicarious-, Android uses a hacked, sawed and cut down BSD libc with some other BSD-license libraries and a Google made, Apache-licensed command line utilities of which there are only 5 (ls and a couple of others) | 03:26 |
| Termana | vicarious-, MeeGo uses glibc and normal linux libraries, normal GNU utilities | 03:26 |
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| Termana | and it doesn't run all its apps in a VM | 03:27 |
| Termana | that's been plastered on a heap of junk | 03:27 |
| vicarious- | hmm | 03:27 |
| test34 | a VM isnt necessarily bad.. but for a phone it might be (not enought processing power) | 03:28 |
| Termana | You can use a NORMAL mainline linux kernel with MeeGo as well, not have to patch in Android's non-mainstreamed stuff | 03:28 |
| test34 | enough.. | 03:28 |
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| niala | test34: if you want you can install a vm in meego or 3 or 4vm :) | 03:30 |
| test34 | niala, thats a good point | 03:30 |
| test34 | I need meego | 03:31 |
| niala | you can install meego-netbook and run meego-handset or meego-ivi in your meego netbook | 03:32 |
| niala | lol | 03:32 |
| niala | like another 'linux' | 03:33 |
| test34 | yes, its a fully working non restricted linux (unlike android) | 03:34 |
| niala | install android in a vm in meego .... | 03:35 |
| test34 | you probably can't do the opposite unless you root your android device | 03:36 |
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| niala | meego in android i think is more difficult isn't it? I know nothing about googleOs | 03:36 |
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| tybollt | hmm | 03:41 |
| tybollt | any ideas why flasher 3.5 wouldn | 03:41 |
| tybollt | t work in Winows 7 (32 bit)? | 03:41 |
| tybollt | never detects the device albeit windows says it detects the usb device | 03:42 |
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| Mikho | sounds familiar for some reason... | 03:43 |
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| tybollt | HEH | 03:47 |
| Mikho | can't remember for the life of me what the solution was | 03:47 |
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| tybollt | you haveta hold the "u" button while connecting the usb plug :) | 03:47 |
| tybollt | then ol works :) | 03:47 |
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| Mikho | that sounds kinda familiar as well :D | 03:48 |
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| tybollt | so the demo thing | 03:51 |
| tybollt | is that lacking a lot of the stuff that is in trunk? | 03:51 |
| tybollt | as in is trunk more usable (graphics aside)`? | 03:52 |
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| rhkfin | Tormis: tried with 7l-n900-1.1.80.0.20101001.1-vmlinuz-2.6.35.3-8.5-n900 | 07:52 |
| rhkfin | no success | 07:52 |
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| rhkfin | Any ideas why kernel won't find the root image from mmc no N900? Tried two separate images, with and without U while starting. | 07:55 |
| rhkfin | Followed these instructions: mwiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Install/MMC | 07:56 |
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| Kubuntiac | Anyone know if you can actually buy the WeTab in North America yet? | 08:40 |
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| Kubuntiac | Just found a YouTube video of some handsome looking hacker at the Meego conference... | 09:02 |
| Kubuntiac | showing off Koffice on the WeTab :P | 09:03 |
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| Kubuntiac | oops... wrong channel >.< | 09:03 |
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| thiago_home | meego ML admins around? | 10:36 |
| thiago_home | <meego-dev@meego.com>: mail forwarding loop for meego-dev@meego.com | 10:36 |
| Stskeeps | mail dawn, i guess | 10:37 |
| hena | hmh, i've been wondering why i'm not gettin any from meego-dev ;) | 10:37 |
| Stskeeps | she handles lists.* admining, so | 10:37 |
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| thiago_home | she'll be up in 6 or 7 hours | 10:42 |
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| Stskeeps | i don't think we have any other admins in our timezone :/ | 10:43 |
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| * Chani looks at the clock | 11:10 | |
| Chani | meep. | 11:10 |
| Chani | wow, that was a long shower.. | 11:11 |
| Chani | Mek: i'm on my way over now | 11:11 |
| Mek | :) okay | 11:12 |
| lcukn900 | the guinness in england is just as awesome as ireland :) | 11:14 |
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| Stskeeps | lo wazd | 11:28 |
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| Stskeeps | morn lbt | 11:43 |
| lbt | good morning | 11:43 |
| lbt | lost you on whatever evening that was | 11:43 |
| Stskeeps | yeah - i was looking around for you | 11:44 |
| Mek | lbt: hi, would it be possible for us kde people to get a project on the community obs that is not in someones private namespace? (and I guess there are a couple of kde people that would love to get access to the community obs in the first place :) ) | 11:44 |
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| lbt | Mek: yes... there will be a https://build.pub.meego.com/project/show?project=Team | 11:45 |
| lbt | however... there is a catch | 11:45 |
| fabo_ | :) | 11:46 |
| lbt | I want to do this with lots of red tape ;) | 11:46 |
| Mek | red tape? | 11:46 |
| lbt | well, ok.... more a bit of red ribbon .... | 11:46 |
| lbt | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_tape | 11:46 |
| lbt | so I asked someone around here.... (glances at fabo_) to help write up some process/policy stuff about who, what, when | 11:47 |
| lbt | The thing is... we'll sign stuff in the Team area | 11:47 |
| lbt | (maybe) | 11:48 |
| rainyrhy | if that works, it should already be in Garage | 11:48 |
| Mek | ah | 11:48 |
| lbt | this is garage | 11:48 |
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| lbt | we have Extras: (garage), Surrounds: (contrib), Team: (dunno) and home: | 11:48 |
| Mek | so for now I should just add people to my own home: kde project until this team thing is worked out? | 11:49 |
| lbt | Team will be our official area for maintenance of a significant unit | 11:49 |
| lbt | I don't want to just give KDE maintainer role for MeeGo to the first bod that asks... | 11:50 |
| lbt | yes | 11:50 |
| Mek | well, we're having a kde on meego dev sprint at the moment :) | 11:50 |
| Mek | but understandable | 11:50 |
| Tormis | rhkfin: no idea why it's failing :/ | 11:50 |
| lbt | so it may well be a simple "ask the CO" or some kind of community TSG | 11:50 |
| lbt | and say "we claim the right because...." | 11:51 |
| lbt | having a few upstream maintainers can't hurt :) | 11:51 |
| fabo_ | Mek: in the meantime, you can add users to your home:*:kde for collaborative work | 11:51 |
| Mek | vkrause, MoRpHeUz, notmart: I guess some of you might want community obs acounts so I can add you to my current kde project? :) | 11:51 |
| Mek | fabo_: yes, that's what I said | 11:51 |
| vkrause | sure :) | 11:51 |
| lbt | also ... my desktop died last night so the backlog is gone | 11:52 |
| lbt | but I have an "add users to obs" script so fire away | 11:52 |
| MoRpHeUz | Mek: lbt gave me yesterday an account (morpheuz) | 11:52 |
| Mek | ah, okay | 11:52 |
| MoRpHeUz | lbt: I was about to ask you how to change my password :) didn't find how to do it... | 11:52 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: is there any plans for additional workers? | 11:52 |
| Stskeeps | as in, obs workers | 11:52 |
| lbt | MoRpHeUz: change on meego.com wait for the next hour (ie every hour, on the hour) to sync pw | 11:53 |
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| lbt | Stskeeps: yes... they kinda noticed that we may need some more | 11:53 |
| Mek | vkrause: so give lbt and me your meego.com username :) | 11:53 |
| lbt | don't tell anas but we'll get some core ones that are idle | 11:54 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: and after you have more workers, we won't need the flagging like we do now? | 11:54 |
| MoRpHeUz | lbt: ah ok, so it shares the infra with meego.com. nice :) | 11:54 |
| lbt | MoRpHeUz: yes... I setup ldap for it | 11:55 |
| lbt | Stskeeps: I want to get a handle on monitoring | 11:55 |
| MoRpHeUz | lbt: you rock :) | 11:56 |
| vkrause | Mek: lbt: my meego.com username is vkrause | 11:56 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: as in policing or? | 11:56 |
| Stskeeps | / process | 11:56 |
| lbt | both | 11:56 |
| Stskeeps | k | 11:56 |
| lbt | and I'm a tad nervous about wide open access yet... given I know the internal infra inside-out... it's not really secure | 11:57 |
| Stskeeps | aren't the chroots kvm based? | 11:57 |
| Stskeeps | with no networking | 11:57 |
| lbt | yes... but we have a *lot* of work to do to get it smooth. It's too easy to make admin mistakes just know | 11:58 |
| lbt | today is "manage distributed config" day | 11:58 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 11:58 |
| lbt | so I can validate that all machines have sensible iptables and all kinds of other stuff | 11:58 |
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| * notmart steps in | 12:01 | |
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| notmart | Mek: of course :) | 12:01 |
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| Mek | notmart: then tell lbt and me your meego.com username, and I'll add you to the current home:mkruisselbrink:kde project until the procedures around real Team: projects are in place | 12:03 |
| notmart | lbt, Mek: yes, my username on meego.com is mart | 12:03 |
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| fabo_ | Mek: my username is boudra | 12:05 |
| MoRpHeUz | br | 12:06 |
| MoRpHeUz | b | 12:06 |
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| Saviq | lbt: still around? I can has OBS account enabled please? | 12:08 |
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| lbt | back | 12:08 |
| lbt | fabo_: done | 12:09 |
| lbt | Saviq: meego.com username please | 12:09 |
| Saviq | lbt: yup, Saviq it is | 12:09 |
| Chani | lbt: can I have an obs account too, please? :) | 12:09 |
| lbt | ah yes... http://wiki.meego.com/Build_Infrastructure/Community_Builder | 12:09 |
| * Chani starts reading backscroll | 12:10 | |
| lbt | good... | 12:10 |
| * lbt writes auto-responder to match a regex of : lbt.*OBS.* -> "please tell me your meego.com username" | 12:11 | |
| Chani | :) | 12:11 |
| * Chani was retrieving it already | 12:11 | |
| fabo_ | lbt: thanks | 12:11 |
| notmart | eheh, after the conference this big line for accounts -had- to happen :) | 12:11 |
| notmart | means that it was successful tough | 12:12 |
| lbt | notmart: yes... we wanted it up beforehand but it finally got there on the thursday before, not a month before | 12:12 |
| Chani | lbt: oh nice, I did get chani there :) | 12:12 |
| lbt | done | 12:13 |
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| lbt | hmm... how would people feel about getting mail saying "community OBS may be disrupted" ? | 12:14 |
| Chani | hmm? | 12:15 |
| lbt | sorry, eg as we do admin work | 12:15 |
| lbt | just thinking about mail notifiers | 12:15 |
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| Chani | hmm. if it happens less than once a month, then it's a useful notification | 12:15 |
| lbt | and that one crossed my mind... I'll need to interrupt service a fair bit over the next weeks | 12:16 |
| Chani | more often and it might get spammy :) | 12:16 |
| Chani | hrm. | 12:16 |
| lbt | OK .. I can just announce on here | 12:16 |
| Chani | ok :) | 12:16 |
| lbt | we're very beta still - but should be data safe | 12:16 |
| Mek | hmm, I could add morpheuz as a maintainer to my kde project, but if I try boudra, mart, chani or vkrause (not sure which of them are supposed to already work) I get an "Unknown user with id '...'" error | 12:16 |
| Chani | hmm, that reminds me, I never check /topic any more... | 12:16 |
| lbt | Mek: interesting | 12:17 |
| Chani | hmm. | 12:17 |
| vkrause | Mek: I can't log in yet, might be related ;) | 12:17 |
| lbt | vkrause: read backlog | 12:18 |
| Mek | yeah, I guess some of the requests to lbt might have gotten lost, since I didn't see him react to every one of those people giving him their meego.com username | 12:19 |
| vkrause | apparently | 12:20 |
| * Chani can't remember the obs url.. obs.something.meego.com? | 12:20 | |
| lbt | Mek: sorry, my machine crashed - but I saw nothing in the backlog | 12:20 |
| vkrause | lbt: my username is vkrause | 12:20 |
| Mek | Chani: build.pub.meego.com | 12:20 |
| Chani | ohh | 12:20 |
| lbt | vkrause: done | 12:20 |
| vkrause | lbt: excellent, thanks :) | 12:20 |
| Chani | lbt: did you do me? | 12:20 |
| lbt | yes | 12:21 |
| Mek | still "Unknown user with id 'vkrause'" | 12:21 |
| lbt | ah. | 12:21 |
| lbt | I bet the users need to login | 12:21 |
| vkrause | login worked | 12:21 |
| Mek | ah, okay, makes sense I guess | 12:21 |
| Mek | yeah, now I can add him | 12:21 |
| * Chani logs in | 12:21 | |
| lbt | the mechanism is to authenticate against ldap and then writethrough to a local OBS user db | 12:21 |
| Chani | lbt: thanks :) | 12:22 |
| * notmart still gets authentication failed | 12:22 | |
| lbt | notmart: which url ? | 12:22 |
| Chani | Mek: you can add me now | 12:22 |
| lbt | https://build.pub.meego.com/ | 12:22 |
| Mek | Chani: done | 12:22 |
| vkrause | great, now let me see if I can upload kdepim-runtime, just got that to work here :) | 12:22 |
| notmart | lbt: https://build.pub.meego.com then username and password of meego.com? | 12:23 |
| lbt | notmart: yes | 12:23 |
| lbt | needs 1hr for new accounts or passwd changes to sync up | 12:23 |
| Chani | hmm, it doesn't show in *my* project page.. | 12:23 |
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| notmart | will try again in a while so... | 12:25 |
| lbt | notmart: is it a really new account ? | 12:25 |
| notmart | well, the meego.com account no, has two months probably | 12:26 |
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| lbt | oh, wait... [10:03] <Mek> notmart: then tell lbt and me your meego.com username, | 12:27 |
| lbt | aha | 12:27 |
| lbt | doen | 12:27 |
| notmart | it works :) | 12:28 |
| notmart | lbt: thx :D | 12:28 |
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| niala | morning' | 12:36 |
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| Mat_Matan | hi | 12:40 |
| lbt | o/ Mat_Matan | 12:42 |
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| Saviq | lbt: have you considered adding opensuse as a remote obs instance available on pub.meego.com? | 12:47 |
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| lbt | Saviq: why ? | 12:53 |
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| Saviq | lbt: it could be useful to be able to base packages for MeeGo on them | 12:53 |
| Saviq | in the ideal case - just link to them | 12:54 |
| lbt | OK ... I proposed that over the conference | 12:54 |
| lbt | I wonder about our Surrounds having an upstream | 12:54 |
| lbt | auke shouted at me | 12:54 |
| lbt | but admitted there may be something in it | 12:55 |
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| Saviq | lbt: IMO this could just be useful for people, nothing more | 13:00 |
| Saviq | no requirement or anything | 13:00 |
| lbt | Saviq: I'll certainly consider it more when we have more hardware | 13:00 |
| Saviq | yeah that makes sense | 13:00 |
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| Saviq | lbt: do we have a place where the purpose of all the repositories is described? or why is there no current_core repo? | 13:08 |
| lbt | no | 13:08 |
| lbt | I'm on the wiki now | 13:08 |
| lbt | please help | 13:08 |
| lbt | http://wiki.meego.com/Build_Infrastructure/Community_Builder | 13:09 |
| Saviq | anything in particular I could write? | 13:09 |
| lbt | outline the existing projects | 13:10 |
| lbt | say what targets you may use in typical use-cases | 13:10 |
| lbt | eg targetting the free netbook | 13:10 |
| lbt | or trying to port to N900/1.2 | 13:10 |
| lbt | link to naming conventions for targets | 13:11 |
| lbt | link to more advanced team project use (eg multi-path) | 13:11 |
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| Saviq | oh so we only have one worker machine? | 13:18 |
| lbt | :( | 13:18 |
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| Saviq | where's AMD when you need 'em ;) | 13:18 |
| lbt | we can probably up that to 2 very quickly | 13:18 |
| lbt | then 5 | 13:18 |
| lbt | we also need to sort out Xen I/O | 13:19 |
| lbt | we're getting abysmal performance .... we think the raid cards are hurting.... reconfiguring spindles is on the TODO | 13:19 |
| lbt | fixing i/o gives more cores - we have 24/machine iirc | 13:20 |
| lbt | so we should have *lots* of workers | 13:20 |
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| Saviq | right | 13:28 |
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| jacekowski | i have a adaptec raid card that seems to be as slow with 3xSATA with raid0 as with raid5 on same disks | 13:30 |
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| jacekowski | and card should be a lot faster than that | 13:31 |
| MoRpHeUz | well, it seems that the ideapad is stuck - no wireless neither battery indicator...let's wait for a bios update? =/ | 13:32 |
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| lbt | MoRpHeUz: no wifi ? | 13:40 |
| MoRpHeUz | lbt: nope | 13:41 |
| MoRpHeUz | lbt: the led is even off.... | 13:41 |
| Stskeeps | MoRpHeUz: lspci | 13:41 |
| lbt | switch on the side? | 13:41 |
| lbt | front right corner | 13:41 |
| MoRpHeUz | lbt: switch is on, the driver is broadcom | 13:41 |
| lbt | just checking ;) | 13:41 |
| Stskeeps | is wl-kmod installe? | 13:41 |
| MoRpHeUz | even tried to reinstall windows...a lot of people is having this issue: http://www.proli.net/2010/11/19/hidden-wifi-switches/ | 13:42 |
| MoRpHeUz | Stskeeps: didn't triy wl-kmod but tried rfkill | 13:42 |
| MoRpHeUz | lbt, Stskeeps: also the battery indicator always shows that it's at 0%, but it can survive on battery for hours... | 13:43 |
| MoRpHeUz | I heard that it may be a BIOS bug =/ | 13:43 |
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| Stskeeps | MoRpHeUz: cos at least the laptop+image i got had broadcom but no wl-kmod | 13:44 |
| MoRpHeUz | Stskeeps: it was working at some point...just stopped working after a reboot or suspend/resume | 13:44 |
| Stskeeps | hence rpm -qa | grep wl-kmod | 13:44 |
| Stskeeps | ah ok | 13:44 |
| lbt | http://wiki.meego.com/Devices/Ideapad | 13:44 |
| Mek | Saviq: is it intended that you're building 24 different targets for your telepathy-sunshine package? It keeps the workers rather busy :) | 13:45 |
| lbt | Mek: thanks :) | 13:45 |
| Saviq | Mek: I disabled all the other repos... | 13:45 |
| Mek | they're still getting build it seems... | 13:45 |
| Saviq | but first they got added enabled | 13:45 |
| Saviq | so | 13:45 |
| lbt | also... do people know about local build ? | 13:45 |
| Saviq | we do | 13:45 |
| lbt | ok good | 13:45 |
| Saviq | Mek: I probably made the mistake of doing it the wrong way around - should've added the repos first and disable all of them project-wide | 13:46 |
| Saviq | and add the package only then | 13:46 |
| Mek | what does local build do? | 13:46 |
| Saviq | Mek: roughly the same what workers do | 13:46 |
| Saviq | but on your local machine | 13:46 |
| lbt | *excactly* the same as the workers (bar kernel version) | 13:47 |
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| Mek | so basically turning my local machine in a worker or something? | 13:47 |
| lbt | the workers actually run the same build script that a local build runs and use the same wget | 13:47 |
| lbt | yes | 13:47 |
| Saviq | except that you don't publish the packages | 13:47 |
| lbt | but on-demand "just build this" | 13:47 |
| lbt | correct | 13:47 |
| Mek | ah, well, I'm building stuff locally anyway before pushing them, so that won't help me | 13:48 |
| Saviq | it's just there to test if they'll build fine on OBS | 13:48 |
| Saviq | Mek: it will, 'cause it will verify that you don't have any missing deps and stuff | 13:48 |
| lbt | ideally you setup a local chroot and bind-mount vcs and build in it | 13:48 |
| Mek | yeah, that's what I'm doing | 13:48 |
| Saviq | Mek: then as long as you do more than 'osc build <repo> <arch>' | 13:49 |
| Saviq | to do your builds | 13:49 |
| Saviq | osc will still speed up your work | 13:49 |
| Mek | Saviq: what do you mean? | 13:50 |
| Saviq | Mek: that's all that you need to do to trigger a local build | 13:50 |
| Saviq | oneliner | 13:50 |
| Mek | yeah okay | 13:50 |
| Saviq | and it will bootstrap directly from the upstream repo | 13:50 |
| Mek | although that complains that it can't find stuff | 13:50 |
| Saviq | (caching a lot in the process, of course) | 13:51 |
| Mek | and since the bottleneck right now is the actual publishing/building of packages on the OBS, that won't really speed up anything :) | 13:51 |
| Saviq | well, yeah, it will only lessen the strain on them for testing out builds | 13:52 |
| Saviq | btw, would it be possible to disable all the repos by default? | 13:52 |
| * Saviq thinks it might help | 13:52 | |
| Mek | why would you even add them all? | 13:52 |
| Saviq | Mek: just for the future | 13:52 |
| Saviq | to have 'em available in my home project | 13:53 |
| Saviq | and enable at will on a per package basis | 13:53 |
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| Mek | so what to do about "Error: you need build.rpm with version 2007.3.12 or newer."? | 13:53 |
| Saviq | doesn't that make sense? | 13:53 |
| Saviq | ^^ that was not a response to Mek | 13:54 |
| Saviq | Mek: what's your distro? | 13:54 |
| Aard | Mek: you go to the opensuse repositories and get build.rpm | 13:54 |
| lbt | please edit http://wiki.meego.com/Build_Infrastructure/Packagers_Developers | 13:55 |
| lbt | maybe add FAQ stuff - especially for distro specific issues | 13:55 |
| MoRpHeUz | brb | 13:56 |
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| lbt | ideally linked to the suse bug report you filed | 13:56 |
| Mek | hmm, maybe osc in meego should also come preconfigured for the meego obs, not the moblin one... :) | 13:56 |
| lbt | rofl | 13:56 |
| lbt | you should see the resolv.conf in the infra | 13:56 |
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| Aard | Mek: looks like they even have a usable version in the meego repositories now http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/tools/ | 13:58 |
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| Mek | Aard: yeah, that's the one I installed, although now it complains that it can find dependencies (it looks in http://crepo.meego.com/MeeGo:/1.1:/Core/standard/i586/rpm-4.8.1-2.6.i586.rpm and https://api.pub.meego.com/build/MeeGo:1.1:Core/standard/i586/_repository/rpm) | 14:00 |
| lbt | FYI ... starting point for community OBS stuff http://wiki.meego.com/Build_Infrastructure#Community_Build_System | 14:00 |
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| sivang | lbt: what is actually surrounds? what repos does it contain? | 14:01 |
| lbt | it is like suse contrib or ubuntu universe at the moment | 14:01 |
| sivang | lbt: okay, so community build service is actually only about surrounds yes? | 14:02 |
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| lbt | http://wiki.meego.com/Build_Infrastructure#Community_Build_System | 14:02 |
| sivang | so build.meego.com is now for community builds as well? (I can't reach cbuild. anymore) | 14:04 |
| Mek | build.pub.meego.com | 14:04 |
| lbt | cbuild should redirect | 14:04 |
| Aard | build.pub? does anybody expect alcohol to improve the results? :) | 14:05 |
| lbt | we were in ireland | 14:05 |
| lbt | in a pub | 14:05 |
| Aard | alcohol abuse already brought us obs, no need to continue on the contents ;) | 14:06 |
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| MoRpHeUz | irish pub? | 14:08 |
| * MoRpHeUz hides | 14:08 | |
| sivang | thanks, cbuild redirects perfectly | 14:08 |
| lbt | oh yes... note the pronunciation of pub in pub.meego.com ... | 14:09 |
| * lbt waits until we get control of the dns and can add guiness.pub.meego.com | 14:09 | |
| Chani | lol | 14:10 |
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| sivang | lbt: so, surrounds is the repo for deps and support the "Applications to run on MeeGo" from that wiki doc? | 14:10 |
| timoph | lbt: is 'osc ci' supposed to work with pub? | 14:10 |
| Mek | works fine for me | 14:11 |
| timoph | gives me permanently moved error | 14:11 |
| lbt | sivang: yes | 14:11 |
| lbt | timoph: yes https ? | 14:11 |
| timoph | hmmh. I think I used http | 14:11 |
| * timoph checks | 14:11 | |
| lbt | timoph: you are now *obliged* to put that in the faq | 14:12 |
| sivang | lbt: may I add this small note onto that wiki page? | 14:12 |
| lbt | http://wiki.meego.com/Build_Infrastructure/Community_Builder has a TOC | 14:12 |
| lbt | knock yourself out ;) | 14:12 |
| lbt | timoph: add a "common pitfalls" to the TOC on that page and create a new page | 14:14 |
| arfoll | how come there isn't a meego 1.0 target? | 14:14 |
| lbt | then ask Aard to help you populate it | 14:14 |
| arfoll | on pub.meego.com | 14:14 |
| lbt | arfoll: there isn't ? | 14:14 |
| arfoll | lbt, maybe i'm blind - but it loks like meego 1.1 and current | 14:14 |
| arfoll | s/loks/looks | 14:14 |
| lbt | https://build.pub.meego.com/project/show?project=MeeGo%3A1.0 | 14:14 |
| lbt | it may not be in the list of easy options | 14:15 |
| arfoll | ah ok thats it | 14:15 |
| arfoll | the interface is confusingly different to OBS 1.9 | 14:15 |
| lbt | yeah | 14:15 |
| * sivang listens to Luke Kelly to ease landing | 14:16 | |
| lbt | we would like people to contrib changes | 14:16 |
| lbt | I hate the https://build.pub.meego.com/project/list_public page | 14:16 |
| lbt | it should have columns | 14:16 |
| Aard | but wait with asking a few hours, I'm afk now | 14:16 |
| arfoll | I hate more getting to subprojects is hidden in 'advanced' | 14:16 |
| timoph | lbt: ack | 14:16 |
| arfoll | how advanced are directories! | 14:16 |
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| lbt | arfoll: agreed - we can either change it upstream or adapt our theme | 14:17 |
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| lbt | this is a brand new UI and they're very receptive indeed | 14:17 |
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| arfoll | well its good to hear they are willing to change it, I say we should try get them to change it, it's much easier if OBS's look/behave the same | 14:18 |
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| * slaine waves at arfoll and lbt | 14:19 | |
| lolloo | hi all! | 14:20 |
| arfoll | hey slaine! | 14:20 |
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| sivang | hey slaine | 14:20 |
| slaine | hey sivang | 14:21 |
| slaine | you all made it home safe and sound I see | 14:21 |
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| lolloo | yes thank you | 14:21 |
| sivang | how can I configure my "sources" list to fetch me upgrades to run at latest daily that was discussed a few hours ago on -releases? | 14:21 |
| Saviq | awesome, I\m getting all messages thrice... | 14:22 |
| arfoll | ryanair made me break my suitcase but apart from that... | 14:22 |
| Saviq | brb | 14:22 |
| sivang | slaine: indeed, for me it was with a minor annoyance of delaying and almost missing departure from dublin, but all good eventually | 14:22 |
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| slaine | I had the least amount of travel of most people at the conf but I was exhausted on the Thursday | 14:23 |
| slaine | late nights and early starts | 14:23 |
| lolloo | welcome back guys! | 14:25 |
| lolloo | I hope you had fun ! | 14:25 |
| lolloo | I would like to thank Nokia and Intel. | 14:25 |
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| vair | делаешь? | 14:27 |
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| timoph | are we using the same packaging guidelines in the pub osb than core obs? For me that would sound reasonable if we want to get stuff moved from pub to core at some point. | 14:34 |
| lbt | we are | 14:37 |
| timoph | good | 14:37 |
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| lbt | timoph: what was the error message (for wiki google bait) | 14:38 |
| nhg | any one was at the meego conf this week? | 14:38 |
| lbt | about 1050 of us nhg :) | 14:38 |
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| nhg | right | 14:38 |
| Stskeeps | lo nhg - think we spoke (carsten munk here) | 14:38 |
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| Stskeeps | if you're from TI, that is :P | 14:39 |
| nhg | Yes...thats correct | 14:39 |
| nhg | Yes...from TI | 14:39 |
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| nhg | So 1050 was the official number eh...wow....awesome! | 14:39 |
| sivang | any one from openismus in here? | 14:39 |
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| Saviq | "Trying openSUSE Build Service server for glibc (MeeGo:1.1:Core), not found at crepo.meego.com" << that probably means 'using repo.meego.com instead of crepo.meego.com', right? | 14:40 |
| lbt | + ".pub" | 14:41 |
| lbt | but also probably a config bug | 14:41 |
| lbt | we were... happy... whilst fixing the new urls | 14:42 |
| Saviq | ah so we don't use core OBS as upstream, just snapshots? | 14:42 |
| lbt | correct | 14:42 |
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| Saviq | lbt: what's the rationale behind that decision? | 14:44 |
| lbt | they wouldn't let us :) | 14:45 |
| lbt | now things are different | 14:46 |
| lbt | but it isn't needed | 14:46 |
| Saviq | also, is the lower/uppercase difference between _Netbook and _handset on purpose? | 14:46 |
| lbt | we don't have build resource to allow users to track live rebuilds of core | 14:46 |
| lbt | bug | 14:46 |
| lbt | ask X-Fade :) | 14:46 |
| lbt | we may need to completely redo the projects.. feedback needed | 14:47 |
| sivang | lbt: added that note, it is important to explain "new" terminology that we introduce, or is surrounds borrowed from suse? | 14:47 |
| lbt | it's a new term. | 14:47 |
| lbt | I have some writeup to do | 14:47 |
| Saviq | one last thing in this QA session, why isn't there a current_core target? | 14:47 |
| lbt | possible bug | 14:48 |
| lbt | it may be simply that it's not on the shortcuts | 14:49 |
| lbt | which makes sense | 14:49 |
| Saviq | about that feedback - I believe the core / extras distinction is a bit confusing, suggests that there's something different in core, not just that extras is an extension of it (or is it, in fact, not?) | 14:51 |
| lbt | extras = app store | 14:51 |
| lbt | see maemo extras | 14:51 |
| Saviq | well, yes but it's core+extras, isn't it? | 14:51 |
| lbt | mmm | 14:51 |
| lbt | well in the same way that it's core+netbook ux+surrounds+extras | 14:52 |
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| lbt | which is technically what we expect... but packages in extras are simple(!) user apps | 14:53 |
| arfoll | lbt, so apps in extras are not allowed to have deps from extras? | 14:54 |
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| arfoll | like pacakges in the intel appup store, they have to be a single RPM? | 14:54 |
| Saviq | arfoll: that's what the extras targets are for | 14:54 |
| lbt | arfoll: correct | 14:54 |
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| lbt | *but* | 14:54 |
| lbt | that is what surrounds is for | 14:54 |
| arfoll | in that case why can you use it as a target? That makes no sense | 14:54 |
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| Saviq | yeah ^ | 14:54 |
| lbt | it's not really a target | 14:54 |
| arfoll | at least it shouldn't be in the 'quick' choices for targets | 14:54 |
| lbt | probably not | 14:55 |
| Saviq | that's what I thought the _extras* were for | 14:55 |
| lbt | sorry | 14:55 |
| Saviq | in that case the '_core' suffix is even more confusing and should go away IMO | 14:56 |
| Saviq | especially since we call 'Core' the set of things that're common between verticals | 14:57 |
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| lbt | Saviq: put together a proposal on the wiki in "What the Targets are for" | 14:58 |
| Saviq | weill do | 14:58 |
| Saviq | -e | 14:58 |
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| niala | zypper dup done, now reboot | 15:01 |
| niala | hello CosmoHill | 15:01 |
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| CosmoHill | salut ...oh he's gone | 15:02 |
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| sivang | hey CosmoHill | 15:04 |
| CosmoHill | salut | 15:05 |
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| niala | CosmoHill: reading fc today ? | 15:09 |
| CosmoHill | ah, oui | 15:09 |
| CosmoHill | I"m watching the Wales WRC Rally at the moment | 15:10 |
| niala | CosmoHill: go Loeb go | 15:10 |
| CosmoHill | lol | 15:10 |
| CosmoHill | has anyone seen Linus' rant about DRM in the linux kernel? | 15:10 |
| Saviq | hmm "can't verify packages due to lack of GPG keys" | 15:11 |
| Saviq | not sure which key and where to import... | 15:11 |
| Stskeeps | CosmoHill: url? | 15:13 |
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| CosmoHill | http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=ODgwMQ | 15:14 |
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| CosmoHill | I don't know who Chris and Dave are but Linus is not happy with them | 15:14 |
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| arfoll | CosmoHill, I recommend you read the full LKML message because the phoronix article doesnt quite do it justice | 15:16 |
| CosmoHill | okay I will | 15:17 |
| lbt | url ? | 15:17 |
| lbt | but he's essentially moaning about process and visibility of discrete changes... not much to do with DRM | 15:17 |
| lbt | basically "yay linus!" | 15:18 |
| arfoll | http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/dri-devel/2010-November/005596.html | 15:18 |
| arfoll | http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/dri-devel/2010-November/005599.html | 15:19 |
| arfoll | they where giving fixes for Linus's machine... | 15:19 |
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| CosmoHill | I thought he was annoyed at the messy code that resulted from git doing the merges and not humans | 15:30 |
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| timoph | lbt: if I remember correctly '301 - moved permanently' | 15:40 |
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| timoph | there was something else in it but I just can't remember the exact error msg | 15:43 |
| arfoll | lbt, when is the maemo obs going offline? | 15:44 |
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| lbt | timoph: change it back ? | 16:05 |
| lbt | arfoll: no plans... soon | 16:05 |
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| timoph | lbt: Transmitting file data .Server returned an error: HTTP Error 301: Moved Permanently | 16:10 |
| Stskeeps | http or https api url? | 16:11 |
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| timoph | http. expected error | 16:11 |
| timoph | or I knew to expect it this time :) | 16:12 |
| lbt | timoph ftw ............................... for the wiki ;) | 16:12 |
| timoph | :) | 16:12 |
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| * CosmoHill moans of loss of Linux support on his PS3 | 16:19 | |
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| timoph | lbt: added | 16:20 |
| Saviq | timoph: just add an alias in ~/.oscrc and use '-a meego' | 16:20 |
| Saviq | or whatever | 16:20 |
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| timoph | Saviq: put that tip to the wiki | 16:21 |
| lbt | Saviq: he was helping contrib to the wiki | 16:21 |
| timoph | http://wiki.meego.com/Build_Infrastructure/Community_Builder/Common_pitfalls#Use_https_not_http | 16:21 |
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| CosmoHill | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rD9T03qsFuo&feature=player_embedded | 16:26 |
| Saviq | hmm I should not put that in the pitfall, do we have a tip'n'tricks? | 16:27 |
| lbt | pitfalls is supposed to be for when you hit an error | 16:27 |
| lbt | we do have tips+tricks | 16:27 |
| lbt | using -A is useful to switch between OBSes | 16:28 |
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| bhaanu | Could somebody please comment on the question in this message http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=13340&postcount=10 | 16:32 |
| Saviq | anyway, we have now http://wiki.meego.com/Build_Infrastructure/Community_Builder/Tips_and_tricks | 16:33 |
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| bhaanu | I am having a challenge in getting the Netbook sdk image to work using qemu. and the link http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=13340&postcount=10 is related to that | 16:39 |
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| marnanel | couple of robotfindskitten screenshots running on the conference notebook: http://i.imgur.com/RZyqx.png http://i.imgur.com/Xh1s4.png | 16:56 |
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| Mat_Matan | hi | 17:15 |
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| GAN900 | OK, where should my unconference minutes go? | 17:27 |
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| GAN900 | community mailing list or community forum? | 17:28 |
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| Stskeeps | wiki? | 17:28 |
| GAN900 | I'd like to encourage some discussion | 17:28 |
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| Stskeeps | both, then :P | 17:28 |
| GAN900 | Since the stupid netbook giveaway screwed up the collab day. . . . | 17:28 |
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| slaine | GAN900: I hope you gave yours back as a sign of protest | 17:30 |
| GAN900 | Topical marketing for the first two days, netbook chaos to ruin the last. :( | 17:30 |
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| GAN900 | slaine, a session on International Logistics might be in order for the next one. *g* | 17:31 |
| slaine | Or "How not to believe a supplier" | 17:31 |
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| * CosmoHill swears cos his program is running a lot slower than everyone else's | 17:42 | |
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| GAN900 | Jaffa, ping? | 17:50 |
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| marnanel | Does anyone know where you get templates to make icons for the launcher? | 17:59 |
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| marnanel | got it: http://wiki.meego.com/File:Templates.zip | 18:02 |
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| Jaffa | re | 18:17 |
| Jaffa | GAN900: pong | 18:17 |
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| timeless_mbp | hello | 18:21 |
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| CosmoHill | hey timeless_mbp | 18:22 |
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| lolloo | hello | 18:26 |
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| Jaffa | DawnFoster: ping | 18:35 |
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| timeless_mbp | hey | 18:37 |
| timeless_mbp | my luggage arrived! | 18:37 |
| kyb3R | :) | 18:37 |
| timeless_mbp | (it spent thursday night in Paris, and wasn't interested in arriving early enough here yesterday) | 18:37 |
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| Jaffa | Birmingham airport was closed last night. Good job I didn't stay longer! | 18:39 |
| GAN900 | Weather? | 18:39 |
| Jaffa | GAN900: Light plane crash caused by weather. | 18:39 |
| GAN900 | Good job indeed | 18:40 |
| Jaffa | GAN900: Carrying a liver for organ transplant. 2 people on board quite badly injured, but the transplant succeeded | 18:40 |
| Jaffa | http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-11802997 | 18:41 |
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| DawnFoster | hey Jaffa | 18:46 |
| lbt | hey Jaffa | 18:46 |
| lbt | and DawnFoster :) | 18:46 |
| DawnFoster | hey lbt | 18:46 |
| lbt | we now have 41 users on the OBS | 18:46 |
| lbt | and kde is being built... | 18:46 |
| CosmoHill | yay | 18:47 |
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| CosmoHill | can I have an account just to say I was one of the first 50? :) | 18:47 |
| GAN900 | Implosion in 3... 2... | 18:47 |
| lbt | you've seen the process... | 18:47 |
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| lbt | CosmoHill: so... ? what's your meego.com id ? | 18:48 |
| timeless_mbp | GAN900 / Jaffa / DawnFoster / lbt : so, i started working on another slide set | 18:48 |
| CosmoHill | just "cosmo" | 18:48 |
| lbt | done | 18:48 |
| * timeless_mbp could use some feedback at some point | 18:48 | |
| CosmoHill | yay | 18:49 |
| CosmoHill | thanks | 18:49 |
| lbt | timeless_mbp: is it more... "constructive" ... otherwise I'm not interested ;) | 18:49 |
| timeless_mbp | lbt: hopefully :) | 18:49 |
| lbt | good | 18:49 |
| timeless_mbp | and not fair, i had suggestions on the last couple of slides :) | 18:49 |
| * lbt wonders if it's now OK to growl at DawnFoster? | 18:50 | |
| DawnFoster | nope :) | 18:50 |
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| DawnFoster | still recovering from the conferene | 18:50 |
| lbt | I have a small todo list.... | 18:50 |
| DawnFoster | I'm actually on vacation | 18:50 |
| lbt | been working all day... and it got bigger | 18:50 |
| lbt | DawnFoster: yay :) | 18:50 |
| timeless_mbp | DawnFoster: earned and well deserved | 18:51 |
| DawnFoster | taking the rest of november for the thanksgiving holiday to chill out. | 18:51 |
| DawnFoster | thanks! | 18:51 |
| timeless_mbp | but vacations on saturdays are kinda silly :) | 18:51 |
| DawnFoster | I plan to read books | 18:51 |
| timeless_mbp | except in Finland where officially you're supposed to spend vacation in 6 day blocks (including Saturday)... | 18:51 |
| DawnFoster | well, Friday was my last day at work, so today counts as vacation :) | 18:51 |
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| * gabrbedd still thinks DawnFoster rocks. | 18:51 | |
| lbt | timeless_mbp: actually, that looks rather useful | 18:51 |
| DawnFoster | gabrbedd: thanks! | 18:52 |
| timeless_mbp | lbt: thanks | 18:52 |
| DawnFoster | of course, I'm hanging out with all of you guys on vacation :) | 18:52 |
| timeless_mbp | some slides are definitely unfinished | 18:52 |
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| lbt | could go on the wiki... and we need DawnFoster to point Ryan at it ... (although he's going to be fine with it) | 18:52 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm kinda sad that unconf didn't have video recording | 18:52 |
| timeless_mbp | i did an intro to MXR in the l10n room | 18:53 |
| timeless_mbp | using my n900's tv-out | 18:53 |
| DawnFoster | ah, some of the uncof sessions were recorded, but not that room | 18:53 |
| timeless_mbp | was that marked on the board? | 18:53 |
| timeless_mbp | (not that i was there early enough to pick a choice spot) | 18:53 |
| arfoll | where are the videos for the sessions? I can't find them on the schedule | 18:53 |
| timeless_mbp | arfoll: mine is just at the top of the page for our talk | 18:54 |
| timeless_mbp | and i saw someone else's the same way | 18:54 |
| timeless_mbp | it isn't ideal | 18:54 |
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| timeless_mbp | it'd be nice to be able to see video icon links from the schedule itself | 18:54 |
| arfoll | ok I see yours but for exampel the keynote ones aren't up | 18:54 |
| * timeless_mbp chuckles | 18:54 | |
| lbt | we could do with a revamp of the schedule page adding 's' and 'v' links to each entry for slides and video | 18:54 |
| timeless_mbp | please | 18:55 |
| Jaffa | DawnFoster: Was just going to say the MeeGo feed on my blog (on the News_and_Planet#Candidates list) now has entries; but don't worry about it if you're now on vacation. You deserve a rest... | 18:55 |
| timeless_mbp | fwiw, i also would like to make my GoogleDocs slides available | 18:55 |
| timeless_mbp | the ppt export kinda broke some of the slides :( | 18:55 |
| lbt | DawnFoster: can I add some text to the wiki home page ? | 18:55 |
| DawnFoster | Jaffa - nah, I'll add it. only takes a minute | 18:55 |
| DawnFoster | lbt: sure | 18:55 |
| DawnFoster | just make sure the text on the home page is relevant to a wide audience | 18:56 |
| lbt | (it's locked) | 18:56 |
| timeless_mbp | lbt: anyway, i'd like to try to finish off the slides and figure out where to put them | 18:56 |
| DawnFoster | lbt: no, other people edit it | 18:56 |
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| lbt | oh. I'll try again. I may have been logged out when I started | 18:56 |
| Saviq | hmm do we have some python packaging guidelines? | 18:57 |
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| josu | btw is there any way to fetch qaikus and show them in Myzone? | 18:57 |
| DawnFoster | Jaffa: ok, your posts should show up now | 18:58 |
| Jaffa | DawnFoster: Ta muchly. | 18:58 |
| lbt | yes... misinterpreted the message | 18:58 |
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| DawnFoster | Jaffa: oops, no - let me fix it. | 19:00 |
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| DawnFoster | Jaffa: ok, now it works | 19:02 |
| smoku | gosh... the ubuntu unity interface is so much better than meego tablet interface... I can finally use my ideapad without beeing annoyed every few minutes | 19:02 |
| timeless_mbp | smoku: hrm, does it support wifi? | 19:02 |
| timeless_mbp | (or how did you install it?) | 19:02 |
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| * timeless_mbp is still waiting for someone to provide a "how-to-dualboot-your-ideapad" | 19:02 | |
| Stskeeps | smoku: you mean the netbook inteface | 19:02 |
| Stskeeps | and yes, netbook isn't that good on tablets :P | 19:02 |
| timeless_mbp | Stskeeps: you're using handset? :) | 19:03 |
| Stskeeps | timeless_mbp: planning to | 19:03 |
| DawnFoster | timeless_mbp: what about upstream developers? | 19:03 |
| timeless_mbp | DawnFoster: oh | 19:03 |
| timeless_mbp | hrm | 19:03 |
| smoku | Stskeeps, the unity interface. the next ubuntu release will bring it on desktop too | 19:03 |
| timeless_mbp | this is mostly designed from my mozilla->nokia experience | 19:03 |
| smoku | Stskeeps, but yes. currently it is default in ubuntu netbook remix | 19:03 |
| timeless_mbp | and the collaborator is another mozilla dev | 19:03 |
| * timeless_mbp ponders | 19:03 | |
| timeless_mbp | yeah, definitely need to figure out how to work that in | 19:04 |
| DawnFoster | timeless_mbp: seems like it should be included, since MeeGo and lots of other open source project rely heavily on upstream | 19:04 |
| timeless_mbp | yeah | 19:04 |
| timeless_mbp | it just requires more thought :) | 19:04 |
| smoku | timeless_mbp, I just downloaded ubuntu netbook remix iso, dd it on my usb pendrive and booted the netbook from usb | 19:04 |
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| timeless_mbp | the primary goal of the slide set is to encourage a split bugzilla | 19:04 |
| timeless_mbp | [dev-bugs] [user-bugs] | 19:04 |
| timeless_mbp | w/ a bridge between | 19:04 |
| Jaffa | Stskeeps: How scalable is the Handset UX resolution? Given the bugs around missing X Terminal and Settings icons, I'm guessing "not very" (and the fact someone had brought an IdeaPad running Handset UX and it seemed to be running at 800x480) | 19:05 |
| timeless_mbp | smoku: ok, did you get wifi? | 19:05 |
| smoku | Stskeeps, meego netbook is not that good on tablets. even if you do not have touch screen | 19:05 |
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| Stskeeps | snowpong_: yeah, i know | 19:05 |
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| Stskeeps | Jaffa: there's some bugfixes to be made in theme | 19:05 |
| smoku | timeless_mbp, yes. even during installation. it downloaded updates and mp3 support during installation. | 19:05 |
| timeless_mbp | smoku: shiny | 19:05 |
| Stskeeps | smoku: yes, i agree | 19:05 |
| timeless_mbp | smoku: can it make my system dual boot? :) | 19:05 |
| timeless_mbp | if so, i'll start w/ it as my first linux | 19:06 |
| timeless_mbp | i.e. shrink my windows system | 19:06 |
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| smoku | Stskeeps, i meant that meego netbook interface is not good even on netbooks. no easy way to switch apps. no clock. no indicators that you have new mail or new im message. having to hit the upper screen border every minute is annoying | 19:08 |
| timeless_mbp | smoku: Stskeeps and others talking work on handset | 19:08 |
| timeless_mbp | you aren't going to hear them argue against you | 19:08 |
| timeless_mbp | but complaining here isn't worth much | 19:08 |
| timeless_mbp | better is to identify individual problems | 19:08 |
| timeless_mbp | or use cases | 19:08 |
| timeless_mbp | and get them into bugzilla or some use-case tracker | 19:09 |
| timeless_mbp | and if you feel like making patches, that's a possibility | 19:09 |
| Stskeeps | timeless_mbp: uhm, not complaining about handset :) netbook ux on a touchscreen clearly shows why we need special ux'es for touch | 19:09 |
| smoku | timeless_mbp, I see no point in raising "basic design ideas are f*ed" bugs | 19:09 |
| timeless_mbp | smoku: yeah, for that it has to be "document use cases" | 19:10 |
| Jaffa | Stskeeps: The IdeaPad's an interesting device. But I think it shows me that a convertible netbook/tablet is a very hard h/w proposition. | 19:10 |
| timeless_mbp | probably with a comparative analysis of other platforms | 19:10 |
| Jaffa | Stskeeps: Compared with a dedicated ARM tablet | 19:10 |
| timeless_mbp | Jaffa: it works great w/ windows :) | 19:10 |
| smoku | Stskeeps, agreed. but even if I do not use the touchscreen, but the keyboard + touchpad, the tablet interface annoys the hell of me | 19:10 |
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| Stskeeps | smoku: it's not a tablet interface - it's netbook | 19:11 |
| Stskeeps | just to get the terms right | 19:11 |
| ShadowJK | smoku, you mean "try do anything a normal person would want to do"-"use case" is broken? :) | 19:11 |
| Stskeeps | what got installed from usb on the ideapads was netbook ux | 19:11 |
| smoku | Stskeeps, yes. I get them mixed up constantly | 19:11 |
| * Chani would build plasma-netbook packages if obs didn't seem so intimidating... | 19:11 | |
| Chani | I on't really know where to *begin* | 19:11 |
| Stskeeps | Chani: do you know how to write spec files? | 19:11 |
| Chani | Stskeeps: nope | 19:11 |
| Chani | Stskeeps: I know that a spec file is something obs uses. that is all I know about packaging. | 19:12 |
| smoku | ShadowJK, exactly. I tried to write an email while talking on IM. I needed to constantly switch the applications, to see whether my friend had written something | 19:12 |
| Stskeeps | Chani: http://wiki.meego.com/Packaging/Tutorial | 19:12 |
| * Chani reads | 19:12 | |
| Jaffa | Chani: lbt should be able to help with OBS; and spectacle is a tool for helping produce .spec files for "normalesque" source tarballs. | 19:12 |
| Chani | 'course it doesn't help that my brain is half fried from reading email half the day ;) | 19:12 |
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| slaine | smoku: there is no published tablet ux as of yet, so now would be a good time to start playing around with ideas form both the handset ux and the netbook ux to see if we can come up with something that works | 19:13 |
| * arfoll needs more upload bandwidth to OBS.... | 19:13 | |
| ShadowJK | smoku, how about Bug: interface makes user facepalm Expected result: user does not facepalm or scream in despair | 19:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | :nod: | 19:13 |
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| smoku | ShadowJK, for me it looks like the person that designed and coded the netbook interface never actually used it :/ | 19:13 |
| slaine | that's pretty harsh | 19:14 |
| slaine | a lot of talented people spent a long time coming up with that ux | 19:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | haha | 19:14 |
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| arfoll | smoku, I actually quite like the netbook UX on a netbook | 19:14 |
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| smoku | slaine, sure. there are a lot of cool ideas there. but alongside there are some hurdles that makes me WTF??! | 19:15 |
| Stskeeps | RevdKathy: my slide from keynote is online if you find the session on conference2010.meego.com | 19:15 |
| slaine | I've been using it in one form or another for over a year and half | 19:15 |
| arfoll | ok, the alt-tab behaviour is stupid but it's not unusable | 19:15 |
| timeless_mbp | slaine: i think there is a reasonable point here, bugzilla as is won't work well for people complaining about use-case-fail | 19:15 |
| Chani | wow | 19:15 |
| RevdKathy | Oh thanks Stskeeps! I can think of lots of places it might be usable - with a different interpretation of 'upstream first'! | 19:15 |
| Chani | smoku: exactly. | 19:15 |
| smoku | slaine, yesterday Texrat (quite a smart guy) came here to ask how do he switch apps in netbook UI. doesn't it show basic usability issues with it? | 19:16 |
| RevdKathy | I only logged in to boast that I am on Xchat on my ideapad! | 19:16 |
| timeless_mbp | slaine: does the netbook ux team actually have documents describing use cases they're trying to address? | 19:16 |
| Chani | it's a strange mix of "ooh, that's neat" and "what were they smoking!?" | 19:16 |
| RevdKathy | I think the UI is TOO simple - they went for simplicity to the point of leaving out stuff I need. | 19:16 |
| timeless_mbp | smoku: um, to be fair, some things aren't intuitive anywhere | 19:17 |
| timeless_mbp | ... but vendors e.g. apple rely on viral learning | 19:17 |
| slaine | People like us wheren't the target audience. | 19:17 |
| RevdKathy | People like me were! | 19:17 |
| slaine | I'd disagree | 19:17 |
| smoku | timeless_mbp, I have no problem in discovering how to switch apps in unity | 19:17 |
| timeless_mbp | if you learn how to do something and it's memorable, you'll remember forever | 19:17 |
| slaine | you've an n900, I can't figure out how to use mine | 19:17 |
| timeless_mbp | slaine: hrm, did i run into you @dub? | 19:18 |
| slaine | smoku: all I did was alt+tab and it switched to the app, you get a nice visual queue too | 19:18 |
| RevdKathy | n900 is actually quite simple for the average user - couple of things needed hunting for but mostly quite intuitive | 19:18 |
| w00t | two things I really dislike about netbook UX.. hiding toolbar that I can't make appear without a keyboard/mouse (touchscreen..) and the stupid 'zones' concept, or at least primarily the incredislow transitions between zones.. | 19:18 |
| smoku | slaine, if you do not count the fact that alt-tab sometimes does not work | 19:18 |
| Chani | I've seen people fail at using the n900 to :) | 19:18 |
| w00t | (but zones altogether seem really weird) | 19:18 |
| Chani | then again, I completely fail at trying to use an iphone or android | 19:18 |
| slaine | timeless_mbp: no, we didn't | 19:18 |
| w00t | and yes, the n900 'test' I always love giving people is to open a dialog and ask them to close it | 19:19 |
| timeless_mbp | slaine: darn :( | 19:19 |
| w00t | "where's the button?!" | 19:19 |
| timeless_mbp | i knew i missed someone :( | 19:19 |
| slaine | I missed loads of people | 19:19 |
| timeless_mbp | i ran into RevdKathy and Chani | 19:19 |
| Chani | my friends atually laughed at me the first time I got to play with a wii (I didn't get video games as a kid) | 19:19 |
| slaine | I bet if I saw photo's of people and nicks I'd face palm and remember standing next to them or something | 19:19 |
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| w00t | slaine: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_rJGdTMbrc-o/S-MmndVpx_I/AAAAAAAAABE/tZyAd2mXUHo/s1600-R/5e54b7913bdfabcc5d1b642ae4803e58%3Fs%3D80%26r%3Dg | 19:20 |
| w00t | :) | 19:20 |
| smoku | Chani, agreed. this is exactly my experience. "oh, that's neat" and few seconds later "how TF do I get to ...?" | 19:20 |
| w00t | (I don't believe we got to chat) | 19:20 |
| Chani | w00t: I think zones show some promise, but they're... missing somehting | 19:20 |
| slaine | w00t: yes, I recognise you, and we didn't get to chat | 19:20 |
| Chani | haha.. waaay too many people at that conference | 19:20 |
| w00t | Chani: a button to get out of them with a touchscreen at least! *g* | 19:20 |
| timeless_mbp | slaine: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3183/2982658690_6611c4f4ef_o.jpg i'm the guy on the right | 19:21 |
| smoku | Chani, that's why i think the designers of this interface do not use it - if they were, they would discover this basic usability issues | 19:21 |
| RevdKathy | The MYzone needs to be massively more configurable | 19:21 |
| timeless_mbp | but my hair was neater @dub | 19:21 |
| * Chani had several "oh wait we've introduced ourselves before" moments | 19:21 | |
| arfoll | lbt, are there only 3 slots and one worker on the new pub obs? | 19:21 |
| leinir | Chani: They need moar activities... ;) | 19:21 |
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| slaine | I think our past experiences impose a bias on our expectations, anything that's different has a lot of WTF's. I was the same when I got my first mac os computer | 19:21 |
| sivang | re all | 19:22 |
| sivang | hey timeless_mbp | 19:22 |
| w00t | Chani: I had a really great moment, not quite along those lines, but.. spent ~15 minutes talking to someone before finding out I was working in the same office as him a while ago for a month and we never ran into each other, which was amusing | 19:22 |
| timeless_mbp | hi | 19:22 |
| Chani | hehe | 19:22 |
| * sivang realizes how many people he missed meeting | 19:22 | |
| smoku | w00t, the lightbox on webpages is slowly teaching people the "touch outside to close" workflow :) | 19:22 |
| arfoll | slaine, very true, I still remember when I first saw the gnome desktop... oh wait my opinion still hasn't changed | 19:22 |
| * RevdKathy realises that too | 19:22 | |
| slaine | timeless_mbp: hmm, not sure we crossed paths | 19:22 |
| sivang | RevdKathy: I never met you , for instance | 19:22 |
| slaine | arfoll: lol | 19:22 |
| sivang | or did it? | 19:22 |
| sivang | *i | 19:22 |
| leinir | w00t: *giggles* 'tis decidedly brilliant fun that sort of thing, yeah :) | 19:22 |
| w00t | also, RevdKathy, HELLO! | 19:22 |
| Jaffa | sivang: I think you did | 19:22 |
| w00t | :) | 19:22 |
| RevdKathy | sivang you may have done - I was the short female one on the help desk | 19:22 |
| RevdKathy | Hiya w00t! | 19:23 |
| w00t | literally, on, the help desk? | 19:23 |
| w00t | because that would have been amusing | 19:23 |
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| sivang | my memory has been fading since the 2nd day of the conference :) | 19:23 |
| slaine | not sure I'm in any pix | 19:23 |
| Jaffa | Not lying on it, like The Fabulous Baker Boys | 19:23 |
| timeless_mbp | slaine: google images does not find you :( | 19:23 |
| sivang | hey Jaffa | 19:23 |
| RevdKathy | Yeah - dancing on the helpdesk after all that Guinness | 19:23 |
| GAN900 | Smaller conference would've been nice. | 19:23 |
| arfoll | i found I was on a russian blog - score! | 19:23 |
| w00t | GAN900: regional meetups++ | 19:23 |
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| sivang | I would love to have a developer's summit | 19:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | timeless_mbp has a nice short paper about some WTFs in maemo, and there's a lot of howtos available on "doing UI the right way" - alas nobody ever seems to read them, or most people who do actually think "I know better about that" | 19:24 |
| GAN900 | w00t, yeah, but then you don't get many international people. | 19:24 |
| w00t | lbt suggested we have one earlier in the UK as I never got to chat with him.. I was like.. it's not even a week after the conference! | 19:24 |
| * GAN900 hates the Netbook UX. | 19:24 | |
| Jaffa | Less booze would've been good on Tuesday. | 19:24 |
| Jaffa | Or powering on through. | 19:24 |
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| w00t | Jaffa: everything in moderation etc.. :) | 19:24 |
| RevdKathy | We're looking at a UK meet-up in Feb next time I leave the Duchy | 19:24 |
| w00t | I actually spent more time talking than drinking on tuesday | 19:24 |
| RevdKathy | Wasn't the booze, Jaffa, it was the dancing. | 19:25 |
| w00t | though admittedly part of that was my nearly passing out from low blood sugar due to not getting time to eat at all | 19:25 |
| GAN900 | Jaffa, willpower. :P | 19:25 |
| w00t | :P | 19:25 |
| sivang | RevdKathy: dancing? | 19:25 |
| sivang | RevdKathy: where? | 19:25 |
| GAN900 | Wednesday was destroyed for a number of irritating reasons. | 19:25 |
| leinir | My personal biggest gripe with the netbook ux is very simple... google the term "mystery meat navigation" ;) | 19:25 |
| w00t | RevdKathy: UK meetup in feb sounds good | 19:25 |
| slaine | timeless_mbp: I look a lot like my southpark avatar on the meego site | 19:25 |
| GAN900 | Also: European orange juice is poison. | 19:25 |
| lbt | RevdKathy: and I barely got to say hello this time :) | 19:25 |
| Jaffa | GAN900: I'd used willpower to go and dance to Brown-Eyed Girl. | 19:25 |
| w00t | GAN900: no, *bad* orange juice is poison | 19:25 |
| RevdKathy | Some of us were dancing in the Guinness place. A lot were standing still pointing phone-cams. Planning a paper on "How Geeks Relax" | 19:25 |
| sivang | DocScrutinizer: we have to think how to improve this... | 19:26 |
| Jaffa | Hmm, I think timsamoff may have pictures of that. | 19:26 |
| pupnik | Mystery meat navigation (also known as MMN) is a disparaging term coined in 1998 by author and web designer Vincent Flanders to describe a visually attractive but concurrently inefficient, confusing, or abstruse user interface, usually one that is Internet-based[1]. Such interfaces lack a user-centered design, emphasizing aesthetic appearance, white space, and the concealment of relevant information over basic practicality and functionality. | 19:26 |
| DawnFoster | RevdKathy & w00t - I think Julien was looking at organizing something in the UK (meetup in London maybe) | 19:26 |
| GAN900 | w00t, there's no difference between the two, as far as I can tell. :) | 19:26 |
| RevdKathy | I saw you in passing a few times, lbt, and we actually together in the music at one point. | 19:26 |
| ShadowJK | gan900: did you get one of those 100% raw without fruitmeat kind? | 19:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | also in my experience UI designers never talk to users about what those really want, and what they think about the designer's new baby. They are just convinced what they designed is the best thing since sliced bread, and nobody must change any bit of it | 19:26 |
| w00t | GAN900: hah | 19:26 |
| lbt | RevdKathy: yeah... that was hilarious... how can you stand still with music like that | 19:26 |
| timeless_mbp | slaine: oh well :( | 19:26 |
| w00t | DawnFoster: sounds cool.. Julien who though? I've a terrible memory for names | 19:26 |
| GAN900 | ShadowJK, dunno what it was. | 19:26 |
| timeless_mbp | you're actually based around dub? | 19:26 |
| GAN900 | But I'm a Floridian | 19:26 |
| GAN900 | and I know orange juice | 19:27 |
| RevdKathy | lbt: precisely. Very interesting - do people use a camera to avoid engaging with experience? | 19:27 |
| leinir | http://www.webpagesthatsuck.com/mysterymeatnavigation.html <-- it's about web pages, but it's equally as valid on desktops | 19:27 |
| GAN900 | whatever is served in Dublin and Barcelona isn't orange juice. | 19:27 |
| pupnik | GAN900: why do some have this bitter taste? | 19:27 |
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| Jaffa | w00t: RevdKathy: DawnFoster: Cool. Tony Percy is trying to as well: offered a venue | 19:27 |
| sivang | RevdKathy: I searched for dancing people and could not really find any, so I stayed still :) | 19:27 |
| DawnFoster | w00t: @jfourgeaud - french guy in a hat :) | 19:27 |
| ShadowJK | GAN900, was it strongly bitter or was it like flavoured water | 19:27 |
| timeless_mbp | GAN900: you can get Tropicana | 19:27 |
| Jaffa | DawnFoster: Always in the middle of a game of Werewolf | 19:27 |
| slaine | GAN900: It was probably that acid they call orange juice 'made from concentrate' | 19:28 |
| RevdKathy | DawnFoster, w00t, we were talking Brum, as I fly out of Brum airport on the 16th. I live in the wilds and getting upcountry is a major event | 19:28 |
| GAN900 | ShadowJK, bitter. | 19:28 |
| lbt | rattle+hum .ie ? | 19:28 |
| DawnFoster | can you guys coordinate them here? http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Office/Marketing/Local_MeeGo_Networks | 19:28 |
| DawnFoster | just to avoid dublication | 19:28 |
| Jaffa | RevdKathy: Ah, Devonwall way; right | 19:28 |
| GAN900 | timeless_mbp, which is the worst orange juice available here besides Minute Made. | 19:28 |
| slaine | DawnFoster: I see you managed to make it to Cornucopia, my wife's favorite eatery in the city center. | 19:28 |
| RevdKathy | sivang, should have come down by the speakers. Lots of us dancing there. I can't stand still in that environment. | 19:28 |
| * Chani notes that not all designers are bad... :) some do actual studies on actual people | 19:28 | |
| DawnFoster | slaine: ha! it was delicious! | 19:28 |
| ShadowJK | gan900: yeah it's the concentrated acid variety like slaine said then probably :) | 19:28 |
| RevdKathy | Jaffa: theses days I'm considered 'up country' being 25 miles north of Land's End. | 19:29 |
| w00t | Chani: even without studies, using it *yourself* frequently is a really good way to find pain points | 19:29 |
| DawnFoster | slaine: all of the good hippie food is near a university :) | 19:29 |
| Chani | hmm. looks like dinnertime | 19:29 |
| w00t | bon appetit | 19:29 |
| slaine | DawnFoster: lol, yeah | 19:29 |
| GAN900 | ShadowJK, concentrate here doesn't taste like that. | 19:29 |
| timeless_mbp | DawnFoster: there's some meego-ish meeting somewhere near HEL "soon" | 19:29 |
| timeless_mbp | but i don't know where | 19:29 |
| slaine | There's a few good spots around temple bar | 19:29 |
| Chani | w00t: indeed, if you don't eat your own dogfood theres something seriously wrong | 19:29 |
| * GAN900 has never vomitted up Florida oj. | 19:29 | |
| timeless_mbp | and the coordinators are using a silly "registration required" service | 19:29 |
| sivang | w00t: I will be trying to have focus groups as related to me and timeless_mbp 's talk, we'll see how far I can with this. | 19:29 |
| Stskeeps | timeless_mbp: you mean the local networks | 19:30 |
| ShadowJK | gan900: well it's like the raw juice with the sugars and water removed isn't it.. | 19:30 |
| timeless_mbp | Stskeeps: re: http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Office/Marketing/Local_MeeGo_Networks | 19:30 |
| Stskeeps | timeless_mbp: right | 19:30 |
| * arfoll feels proud to be that spike in the public OBS | 19:30 | |
| timeless_mbp | btw, what the heck is w/ the strange wiki page? | 19:30 |
| Chani | however, some usability issues are invisible when you've been using the UI too long | 19:30 |
| sivang | w00t: just trying to figure out the people to involve, conferences are great opportunity for that and a giveaway like netbooks could have been used to get people's attention and feedback | 19:30 |
| timeless_mbp | oh | 19:30 |
| timeless_mbp | it isn't a redirect | 19:30 |
| * Chani found some glaring problems with newbies trying to use the activity manager UI in plasma | 19:30 | |
| timeless_mbp | it's a page w/ one link | 19:30 |
| * timeless_mbp sighs | 19:31 | |
| timeless_mbp | ok, i can't figure out WTF that page is | 19:31 |
| timeless_mbp | is it a double redirect? | 19:31 |
| Jaffa | DawnFoster: Attempting to organise all the people mentioned towards that page as we speak. | 19:31 |
| * timeless_mbp *hates* wikis | 19:31 | |
| sivang | Jaffa: UK meetup? | 19:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | w00t: (using it *yourself* frequently is a really good way) not for the majority of developers/designers/whatever | 19:32 |
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| sivang | arfoll: xbmc ? :) | 19:33 |
| arfoll | sivang, aye :-) | 19:33 |
| sivang | arfoll: I spotted it couple hours ago already :-D | 19:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | w00t: usually the dudes who designed something are much too used to the concept behind it, and never use different alternative methods or even weird useage scenarios | 19:33 |
| arfoll | sivang, it's been on the maemo community OBS for 2 months | 19:33 |
| w00t | DocScrutinizer: then those people are weird | 19:33 |
| slaine | DocScrutinizer: but that's kinda part of the problem too though. Like I said, people's past experiences make them biased about certain approaches. I KNOW that the netbook ux guys worked heavily on the Zones idea and DO use it a lot | 19:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | w00t: that's the whole point about testing | 19:33 |
| slaine | So for them, it's exactly what they wanted | 19:34 |
| GAN900 | Installing Ubuntu tonight. | 19:34 |
| sivang | slaine: we should have concepts reviewed thoroughly before actually going into investment in to them. Known practice in developing a service is consumer interview and market research. | 19:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | slaine: *for them* - yes | 19:35 |
| Jaffa | sivang: Aye | 19:35 |
| * ShadowJK wonders if "read web forums" use case is pleasant on meego | 19:35 | |
| RevdKathy | slaine - Zones is ok. I want to add the things I use to MyZone and can't work out how: they have put in the things they want, but a link to MY most used apps, for example | 19:35 |
| sivang | this case should *not* be an exception, and I mentioned it a couple of times during the talk. | 19:35 |
| sivang | (this == meego story) | 19:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | sivang: ++ for research | 19:36 |
| GAN900 | Wish two finger scrolling worked on the trackpad. | 19:36 |
| DawnFoster | RevdKathy: you just have to select them as a favorite | 19:36 |
| slaine | RevdKathy: In the application panel, there's a little drop pin appears above an icon, click the pin to pin it to the fav's bar | 19:36 |
| slaine | Over on the fav's bar, click the pin to unpin the ones you don't want | 19:36 |
| * ShadowJK recently heard a theory that market research as interviewing potential customers is counterproductive because they give stupid answers and dont really know what they want anyway | 19:37 | |
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| GAN900 | and what about the trackpad buttons? | 19:37 |
| smoku | GAN900, I didn't manage to get two finger working. but you can scroll just by touching a side of the touchpad and moving to the other. | 19:37 |
| slaine | sivang: indeed, those UX concepts where designed in-house by Intel as part of the Moblin UX project | 19:37 |
| GAN900 | ShadowJK, ++++ | 19:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | sivang: alas usually such research is biased as well. like in there's a question "does the 7-finger scrolling work smooth enough for you?" but nobody asks user "do you *like* that 7-finger scrolling?" | 19:37 |
| RevdKathy | DawnFoster: slaine: thanks! That's brilliant! But I would NEVER have found that for myself. Helps enormously. | 19:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: that's another lie spread by the designers | 19:38 |
| slaine | DocScrutinizer: which often leads to design by committee, which never works | 19:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | to protect their babies from any interference | 19:38 |
| DawnFoster | ShadowJK: market research never produces anything useful when you are talking about something truly new and innovative | 19:38 |
| arfoll | slaine, do you agree with the russian UX designer? | 19:39 |
| sivang | DocScrutinizer: true, that's why a "like/dislike" survey should compliment the "functionality" research | 19:39 |
| slaine | DawnFoster: Moblin used to have a pretty good user guide on the site that answered questions like RevdKathy's one there. Are those guides updated and available for meego ? | 19:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | proper competition on usability test setup is something different than silly polls on the pavement | 19:40 |
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| slaine | arfoll: in principal, though he failed to validate it to any degree at all | 19:40 |
| slaine | I've seen what happens with design by committee first hand | 19:40 |
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| timoph | lbt: is the community obs repos workflow documented in the wiki somewhere? meaning where do I send the sr to (Extras:Testing ?) and what's the stable repo that people should add to get packages that have passed the community QA? | 19:40 |
| RevdKathy | Ok, is there an interface that would enable ad hoc networking that I'm missing? Cos my only really serious problem now is that the beastie doesn't see joikuspot | 19:40 |
| sivang | ShadowJK: there has to be a balance, ofcourse, but working blindly is bound to crash. | 19:40 |
| DawnFoster | http://help.meego.com/ | 19:40 |
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| RevdKathy | Oh timoph - thank you SO much for your post about getting xournal and xchat. As you can see... it worked! | 19:41 |
| slaine | DawnFoster: cool | 19:41 |
| arfoll | slaine, he was pretty useless, but design by commitee is an interesting thing. I dont care as long as nokia don't come out with something that looks anything like symbian^3 | 19:41 |
| timoph | RevdKathy: np | 19:41 |
| DawnFoster | has basic functionality descriptions & how to's for the installed bits | 19:41 |
| slaine | Everyone else, what DawnFoster posted ;) | 19:41 |
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| slaine | arfoll: yeah, getting a consensus on a design is important, but that's different again. | 19:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | e.g multitouch is a flawed concept if there's no alternative method to do same commands, as more often than designers like to believe, user needs to operate a device one-handed | 19:42 |
| timoph | RevdKathy: anything else that is missing and should be packaged? I'm thinking of packaging libreoffice next (without the java parts) | 19:42 |
| sivang | ShadowJK: going to effort to weed out the productive reponses than the "Stupid" once (although I made quite a lot of improvements to products I worked on by listening to "stupid" remarks) is only expected from anybody wishing to ship a product with large user bases | 19:42 |
| sivang | if its for internal use, than no issue at all. | 19:43 |
| ShadowJK | On desktop I use tabbed browsing, I love it. If anyone for N900/Maemo5 had asked my opinion on leaving it out, I'd told them to go fuck themselves on a rusty nail. However, in prfactice I love the Maemo5 way much more than fennec's tabbed browsing, and I dont know why | 19:43 |
| RevdKathy | timoph I'd like a simple image manip so I can resize and tinker with photos before upload: the internal photo viewer is just a tad too basic. But I don't want the whole gimp | 19:43 |
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| GAN900 | ShadowJK, hehehe | 19:44 |
| GAN900 | Just wish we had an easy and fast "Open link in background" | 19:44 |
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| ShadowJK | or an explanation/hint/help why sometimes it says just "open in new window" when I wanted to have "open link in new window", as if I had tapped a non-link despite the link highlighting :) | 19:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: nevertheless N900 is missing a hw menu key - thus breaking one of the 10 commandments of UI design: "if here's alternative HIDs, then allow user to operate the UI by exclusive use of any one of them" | 19:46 |
| timoph | RevdKathy: I'll check what's available. shotwell or something.. | 19:46 |
| GAN900 | 25MB RAW files bring it to its knees. | 19:46 |
| sivang | Beliving your user "does not know what he wants" is a dangrous excuse to not investing in feedback loops. | 19:46 |
| sivang | Even sun listens to her users. | 19:46 |
| GAN900 | sivang, but it's true in many cases. | 19:46 |
| sivang | GAN900: apple? | 19:47 |
| GAN900 | sivang, yes. | 19:47 |
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| GAN900 | Problem with Apple is that they don't have their users' best interests at heart these days. | 19:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: sorry can't parse your last post | 19:48 |
| RevdKathy | timoph: thanks. Shotwell was there, but seems not to available any more. A better media player (one that takes the same mp4s as n900!) would be nice but is far from urgent | 19:48 |
| Stskeeps | this netbook asks for a NES emulator.. | 19:49 |
| timoph | :) | 19:49 |
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| smoku | BTW if anyone wants to enable right click on ideapad: http://wiki.meego.com/Devices/Ideapad#Touchpad | 19:51 |
| lcuk | thanks smoku ! | 19:53 |
| sivang | GAN900: I don't believe apple do not employ feedback loops and user focus groups.. even if it might appear so. | 19:53 |
| ShadowJK | Anyway, for me tabbed browsing isnt really about multitasking, it's a way for me to tell the device in quesion "these are the things I want to read, please prepare them for me so I can have them instantly when I'm done reading this current page" | 19:53 |
| timeless_mbp | smoku: ooh! | 19:53 |
| sivang | smoku: THANK YOU | 19:53 |
| timeless_mbp | ShadowJK: sadly that isn't how browsers behave | 19:54 |
| lcuk | hi folks btw \o | 19:54 |
| timeless_mbp | hi | 19:54 |
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| arfoll | good work smoku | 19:54 |
| RevdKathy | ShadowJK for me it's a way of interrupting what I'm reading to check something and then come back to where I was without losing the place. | 19:54 |
| lcuk | oh, hey a RevdKathy \o | 19:55 |
| ShadowJK | timeless_mbp: but tabbed browsing for the most part achieves it :) | 19:55 |
| RevdKathy | Hi lcuk! How're you? | 19:55 |
| ShadowJK | revdkathy: yeah that too | 19:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | GAN900: I *hate* designers who think they can do whatever they like, as they got the excuse they're doing it "in my best interest". Nobody knows about my best interest | 19:55 |
| timeless_mbp | ShadowJK: we get reporters complaining they run out of memory w/ 80 tabs open | 19:55 |
| timeless_mbp | ... | 19:55 |
| GAN900 | DocScrutinizer, everything in balance. | 19:55 |
| lcuk | I am tired, I just woke up after another very late night drinking with friends :) | 19:56 |
| ShadowJK | on desktop I also use tabs as bookmarks | 19:56 |
| GAN900 | DocScrutinizer, on the other side you get Symbian^3. | 19:56 |
| ShadowJK | and keep like 150 open | 19:56 |
| GAN900 | lcuk, how can you keep going? | 19:56 |
| ShadowJK | with session mnager to restore after crashes | 19:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | ME? no! | 19:56 |
| smoku | RevdKathy, good browsers achieve that with the Back key | 19:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | never touched a sybian device | 19:56 |
| lcuk | GAN900, I was in an Irish bar drinking guinness again | 19:56 |
| GAN900 | I've sleep 11 hours both last night and before. | 19:56 |
| RevdKathy | lcuk: sounds like a nice life. I spent the day on chores. But have had several successes with this ideapad since | 19:56 |
| * CosmoHill throws his phone at DocScrutinizer | 19:56 | |
| lcuk | O#Neills in Bury :) | 19:56 |
| CosmoHill | you have now! | 19:56 |
| GAN900 | lcuk, was it free? | 19:56 |
| lcuk | GAN900, no, but it was worth it. | 19:57 |
| RevdKathy | smoku no, not the way I want to. I like to follow chains of links and still be able to come back to my start point and compare | 19:57 |
| lcuk | after barely spending anything at the conf I had enough to go and enjoy the night :) | 19:57 |
| RevdKathy | lcuk: you developed quite the taste for Guinness in the end! | 19:58 |
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| lcuk | RevdKathy, I cut my hand this morning and it was oozing black blood! | 19:58 |
| smoku | RevdKathy, in a good browser if you click on a link and then press back key, you will be at the same page at the same scroll position when you left | 19:58 |
| RevdKathy | Yes, but if I click a link in that next page it gets complex. I like to open in a new tab then I can cross reference. | 19:59 |
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| lbt | timoph the whole Extras thing is not written yet | 19:59 |
| RevdKathy | lcuk: you have a great career ahead in horror movies bleeding black. | 19:59 |
| lcuk | RevdKathy, I was telling Rick and Craig about the week and it was great to catch up with them :) | 20:00 |
| smoku | RevdKathy, oh. if you want to look at both pages simultaneously - yes. but then the split window is even better option :) | 20:00 |
| timeless_mbp | smoku: do you mean backspace? | 20:00 |
| timeless_mbp | because backspace in browsers is a *disaster* | 20:00 |
| timeless_mbp | it's the fastest way to dataloss | 20:00 |
| sivang | GAN900: so apple's success is for knowing better than consumers what they want? | 20:00 |
| RevdKathy | lcuk I went into work and buzzed all over people about how great it all was. I think they got fed up *very* quickly | 20:00 |
| timeless_mbp | sivang: it's a generally successful strategy | 20:01 |
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| GAN900 | sivang, to an extent. | 20:01 |
| timeless_mbp | know what consumers could be convinced to want before they realize they want it | 20:01 |
| timeless_mbp | then convince them to want and buy it | 20:01 |
| RevdKathy | smoku: I just find the tabbing works comfortably, without fuss. I never have more than about 8 open - not 150. | 20:01 |
| smoku | timeless_mbp, that's why I say "good browsers". yes, bad browsers workaround weak state trackin with "just use tabs" excuse | 20:01 |
| timeless_mbp | smoku: err | 20:01 |
| timeless_mbp | state tracking is a feature of web pages | 20:02 |
| timeless_mbp | they generally ask for dataloss | 20:02 |
| GAN900 | sivang, you'll never have revolutionary design if all of your design is based on studies. | 20:02 |
| timeless_mbp | there's very little a browser can do about it | 20:02 |
| timeless_mbp | sivang: n.b. you do need to study users after you make your revolutionary design | 20:02 |
| timeless_mbp | preferably before it's too late for minor fixes before you ship | 20:02 |
| * timeless_mbp sighs | 20:02 | |
| DocScrutinizer | GAN900: then, otoh, who really *needs* revolutionary design. Except a few designers to take pride in it? | 20:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer | GAN900: TBH I *hate* those "revolutionary new" designs as much and for same reasons I hate those designers that think "I'm acting in best interest of user" is an excuse for all that "revolutionary" crap | 20:05 |
| RevdKathy | Tell me I don't need a separate log-in for meego bugs? It's deja vu all ovber again. | 20:06 |
| sivang | timeless_mbp: but if the dislike my revo design , what do I do? | 20:06 |
| lbt | RevdKathy: you don't | 20:06 |
| sivang | *they | 20:06 |
| timeless_mbp | sivang: for something revolutionary, it isn't quite about dislike | 20:06 |
| timeless_mbp | it's about whether with some time it works for them | 20:06 |
| RevdKathy | lbt: I go through the meego.com page and reach 'log in' - I was logged in on the last page! | 20:07 |
| timeless_mbp | an initial negative reaction for something revolutionary is to be expected most of the time | 20:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | timeless_mbp: and for a good reason | 20:07 |
| lbt | RevdKathy: it is pretty flakey IIRC | 20:07 |
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| GAN900 | RevdKathy, login to meego.com, reload bz. | 20:08 |
| sivang | timeless_mbp: and then, in due time, we hope for the users to get used to it? | 20:08 |
| GAN900 | sivang, if it's actually worthwhile design, they will. | 20:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | why should they | 20:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | ? | 20:08 |
| RevdKathy | I AM logged into meego.com. I followed logged in links all the way to that damned dinosaur and it ate my log in. | 20:08 |
| GAN900 | DocScrutinizer, because it's more efficient and more powerful than the older alternatives? | 20:09 |
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| lbt | it's not sso... you need to login using the same user/passwd | 20:09 |
| * lbt isn't sure about bugs site | 20:10 | |
| DocScrutinizer | GAN900: because they give that "revolutionary new" crap a second, third, 12th try after the initial MEH and dumping it? or just because some benevolent dictator is shoving that "new" crap down everybody's throat so they got now other choice than eat it or leave it? | 20:10 |
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| GAN900 | DocScrutinizer, whatever. | 20:10 |
| sivang | GAN900: what happens if the design isn't worthwhile, how do you define worthwhile anyways? | 20:11 |
| GAN900 | sivang, efficiency and power, for my own usage. | 20:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | GAN900: that's a really huge and evil misconception about how user oriented develpment works | 20:11 |
| GAN900 | I hated tabbed browsing when it first arrived and couldn't envision any purpose to it. | 20:11 |
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| GAN900 | DocScrutinizer, again, whatever, I don't feel like holding a design war anymore. | 20:12 |
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| ShadowJK | I was instantly a fan :) | 20:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and I don't feel like contributing to the hierarchical dictator model of development anymore, when the dudes in command are unaware about such things | 20:13 |
| ShadowJK | mostly because of its side-effect of removing lots of waiting | 20:13 |
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| smoku | ShadowJK, do you use Alt+1,2,... ? | 20:13 |
| ShadowJK | no | 20:14 |
| lcuk | RevdKathy, saw this on Ricks fridge: http://liqbase.net/onelife.photo.jpg | 20:14 |
| ShadowJK | tabs are back button that has no 10-60 second delay, tabs are bookmarks that are instant, tabs create a tree of my most visited sites. tabs are a queue for putting things I want to read into a queue, from which I can get the thing instantly | 20:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | where "such things" in my last statement applies not only to UI design but also to general system architecture decisions | 20:16 |
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| RevdKathy | lcuk: Deuteronomy 30:19 "Choose Life" | 20:17 |
| ShadowJK | It would be absolutely fantastic if someone invented something that made all those tab use-cases obsolete, but I think it's a very difficult thing :) | 20:17 |
| lcuk | :) | 20:17 |
| * thiago_home would really like if someone invented holographic projection screens | 20:17 | |
| GAN900 | thiago_home, wouldn't we all. | 20:18 |
| lcuk | thiago_home, hmm there are various designs for volumetric displays | 20:18 |
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| thiago_home | CSI has it | 20:19 |
| lcuk | :D | 20:19 |
| ShadowJK | I remember at one point using that mozilla suite thing, with some mailing list archives on the web it would automatically load the next mail beforehand, and it was really quick to read through | 20:20 |
| fcrochik | has anybody figured out how to resize the brtfs partition on the ideapad so another os can be installed? | 20:20 |
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| * thiago_home created a smaller partition for that purpose alone | 20:20 | |
| lcuk | which OS did you put on thiago_home ? | 20:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer | GAN900: such hierarchical models may work on commercial environments, like Nokia. Where some managers decide a bug is WONTFIX just because they don't consider it worth the 5 lines of code being ritten that's needed to fix it. For a FOSS community project like meego I refuse to accept such irreverence | 20:21 |
| thiago_home | right now, none | 20:21 |
| * lcuk is not dualbooting it, but a dual ui would be good | 20:21 | |
| thiago_home | I'll probably install other versions of meego | 20:21 |
| thiago_home | handset, for example | 20:21 |
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| lcuk | did I see instructions for switching between handset/netbook ux? | 20:21 |
| GAN900 | DocScrutinizer, different argument. | 20:21 |
| thiago_home | I didn't, so I thought I might install a separate one | 20:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | absolutely not | 20:22 |
| fcrochik | thiago_home: did you resize the one created by the original meego setup or started all over? | 20:22 |
| thiago_home | fcrochik: neither. I created a smaller one (40G) right from the start | 20:23 |
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| arfoll | use btrfsctl -r | 20:24 |
| fcrochik | thiago_home: that is what I was afraid... I used the usb stick and it did take over the entire hard drive with one brtfs partition....now I can resize within and haven't found another dist that will | 20:25 |
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| arfoll | fcrochik, btrfs does online resizing use that tool | 20:25 |
| fcrochik | arfoll: I can't because it is the root partition....I have to boot some other distro that supports brtfs...any suggestions? | 20:26 |
| sivang | very interesting article, however implies about Apple's stealth "focus group" strategy :) http://www.pragmaticmarketing.com/publications/magazine/6/4/you_cant_innovate_like_apple | 20:26 |
| fcrochik | arfoll: does it? it did not let me do anything with the mounted volume | 20:26 |
| sivang | pay attention to the paragraph right after the "What would we like to own?" question. | 20:26 |
| arfoll | fcrochik, take out the drive connect it to any recent distribution (i used arch linux) | 20:27 |
| fcrochik | arfoll: take out? its is a netbook.... :( | 20:28 |
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| timeless_mbp | thiago: how did you resize paritions? | 20:29 |
| DawnFoster | thp: ping | 20:30 |
| arfoll | fcrochik, 4 screws take out the backcover there is a tab to take out the hard drive | 20:30 |
| arfoll | real easy | 20:30 |
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| fcrochik | arfoll: I was hiping for a less "involved" process...worst come to worst I will just start all over the meego install but would prefer not have to | 20:32 |
| fcrochik | helping I meant | 20:32 |
| arfoll | in that case download the latest arch installer, write it with dd to a USB stick and btrfs support is in the latest image | 20:33 |
| fcrochik | arfoll: I will try...thanks! | 20:34 |
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| arfoll | actually it may not be but you can install the btrfs tools with pacman in the 'live' environment | 20:34 |
| arfoll | doesnt ubuntu 10.10 support btrfs? | 20:35 |
| fcrochik | arfoll: I just created a bootable stick...will find out soon....the first I tried with the netbook edition I couldn't use the keyboard for some reason | 20:36 |
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| sivang | as interesting, "You need to focus" and "You need to know your customer and your market" | 20:43 |
| smoku | timeless_mbp, well.. Just posted bugs for my experience with netbook ui. we'll se ;-) | 20:44 |
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| timeless_mbp | smoku: i'll look in a bit | 20:44 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm fixing an hg ux issue now | 20:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | sivang: thanks for that awesome link | 20:44 |
| fcrochik | smoku: where did you post? bugs.meego? I have some too | 20:44 |
| smoku | fcrochik, yes. bugs.meego.com | 20:45 |
| sivang | DocScrutinizer: you are welcome :) | 20:46 |
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| timeless_mbp | ok, so, hg ux work done | 20:48 |
| timeless_mbp | back to this window... | 20:48 |
| timeless_mbp | right, so um... anyone have a "solution" for my multiboot problem? | 20:48 |
| timeless_mbp | or should i just document w7 first? | 20:48 |
| fcrochik | has anybody noticed that checkboxes don't show up on dialogs? I noticed on qt creator | 20:49 |
| timeless_mbp | http://www.webwizardry.net/~timeless/meego/firstrun/ was my last experience w/ meego | 20:49 |
| smoku | another outcome of the conference for me... I reinstalled my laptop to OpenSUSE and so far lovin' it :) | 20:52 |
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| fcrochik | smoku: any obvious reasons why would be better than ubuntu for development? | 20:53 |
| smoku | fcrochik, seems snappier. and gives non-broken GNOME experience | 20:54 |
| fcrochik | smoku: I installed ubuntu 10.10 before I found out that qemu does not work on it....so now I have to start over | 20:54 |
| smoku | fcrochik, ergo - none. purely subjective ;-) | 20:54 |
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| smoku | fcrochik, quemu worked fine on my 10.10. at least the user mode required for mic2 and osc | 20:55 |
| fcrochik | smoku: I couldn't start the meego image and then I heard during the convention that there was a bug and decided to give up | 20:56 |
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| smoku | fcrochik, I actually never installed SDK yet ;-) | 20:57 |
| Chani | smoku: opensuse ftw :) i'm really stsrting to like this distro | 20:57 |
| fcrochik | it is not debian based, right? | 20:57 |
| lcuk | why did you guys remove meego from your meego netbook? | 20:57 |
| DawnFoster | Just published my blog post about the conference: http://fastwonderblog.com/2010/11/20/meego-conference-geeks-in-dublin/ | 20:58 |
| smoku | lcuk, for me the netbook UI is simply unusable | 20:58 |
| * thiago_home reads | 20:58 | |
| fcrochik | lcuk: I don't want to remove just want to install some other more complete disto sideways | 20:58 |
| smoku | lcuk, but I'm going to try packaging Unity and try again | 20:58 |
| thiago_home | DawnFoster: shall I add you to the wrap-up part of the wiki? | 20:59 |
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| smoku | lcuk, and comparing to smeegol the application selection and the simple count of administration aplets looked so lacking | 20:59 |
| timeless_mbp | lcuk: the meego netbook didn't come w/ meego :) | 20:59 |
| timeless_mbp | well, if you could "meego on a stick" as meego, i guess it does.. | 21:00 |
| DawnFoster | thiago: ha! was just editing that page :) | 21:00 |
| lcuk | timeless_mbp, the point was to leave the room with meego installed and that was what the greatest majority did. | 21:00 |
| timeless_mbp | lcuk: yep | 21:01 |
| timeless_mbp | but i got to do more demos of clunky ui's :) | 21:01 |
| timeless_mbp | i'll document my meego-ideapad firstrun experience later | 21:01 |
| smoku | fcrochik, SuSE started as "RedHat done right" and came a long way since. | 21:01 |
| * timeless_mbp goes to take pictures of things w7 does right | 21:02 | |
| timeless_mbp | (they're rare, but worth noting when they happen) | 21:02 |
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| sivang | DocScrutinizer: In my world, there are no free meals. but I thank GAN900 for igniting my curiousity about apple's process, for otherwise I'd never come across it and would have thought they just get away without focus groups and market research and knowing the context in which they operate. | 21:02 |
| timeless_mbp | hrm | 21:03 |
| * timeless_mbp wonders how meego handles resume | 21:03 | |
| timeless_mbp | windows has a menu you can enter which lets you discard your restore state and boot from scratch | 21:03 |
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| lpotter | it disables the touchscreen on my asus when it suspends/resumes | 21:03 |
| sivang | timeless_mbp: there's an issue with 1.1, if you go to power off and accidently close the lid, it will suspend | 21:03 |
| sivang | timeless_mbp: on resume, you're stuck black screened and have to poweroff 2 sec sequence | 21:04 |
| timeless_mbp | sivang: people @conf think it's a feature | 21:04 |
| timeless_mbp | (i.e. unfiled bug) | 21:04 |
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| fcrochik | sivang: ah.... so that was what happened with me earlier today :) | 21:05 |
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| sivang | fcrochik: yep, a known issue we had in ubuntu, I'm trying to dig if it got fixed or what | 21:06 |
| sivang | timeless_mbp: I see | 21:07 |
| sivang | timeless_mbp: need to fill that one about resizing broken as well, /me starts a "to be filed" bug list | 21:08 |
| timeless_mbp | oh borther | 21:08 |
| timeless_mbp | s/borther/brother/ | 21:08 |
| infobot | timeless_mbp meant: oh brother | 21:08 |
| * timeless_mbp kicks Windows Live Essentials 2011 [installer] in the ass | 21:08 | |
| timeless_mbp | it was part of my 44 or so software updates | 21:08 |
| timeless_mbp | and insisted on showing me a "Done" dialog | 21:09 |
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| sivang | timeless_mbp: how can I know if it did not already get fixed in daily's snapshot? | 21:10 |
| sivang | also, anybody knwos what's the way to upgrade as per daily snapshots?(rather then re-installing image repeatitvly) | 21:11 |
| sivang | as in, sudo apt-get upgrade | 21:11 |
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| Bostik | zypper refresh && zypper update ? | 21:13 |
| sivang | Bostik: how do I specify a version for the repo, so I want to get 1.1.80 or something | 21:14 |
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| * sivang -> out | 21:15 | |
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| Bostik | that's a good question, and honestly I don't know | 21:17 |
| Bostik | mainly because I haven't had the urge/need to do that so far | 21:17 |
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| timeless_mbp | generally that isn't supported | 21:20 |
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| sivang | timeless_mbp: I was thinking "debian unstable" | 21:21 |
| timeless_mbp | i don't think unstable lets you pick a time for a world | 21:22 |
| timeless_mbp | you might be able to get one component at a version, but in general in debian it won't do what you want | 21:22 |
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| sivang | timeless_mbp: sorry, I was unclear. I just want to run the latest, such that if a package gets updated with fixes, I will be able to test etc. I don't really care about the time. | 21:23 |
| timeless_mbp | oh | 21:23 |
| sivang | timeless_mbp: and will be able to inspect changelog on upgrade, as with synaptic or update-manager | 21:23 |
| timeless_mbp | that's totally incompatible w/ your question of "i want to get 1.1.80" :) | 21:23 |
| sivang | timeless_mbp: yes, was giving it as an example:) | 21:24 |
| sivang | sorry for being unclear | 21:24 |
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| sivang | anyway, laters | 21:25 |
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| Jay_BEE | hi | 21:34 |
| smoku | Chani, after installing subpixel font rendering opensuse looks even better :D | 21:37 |
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| * Jay_BEE takes a look at bug 9723 | 21:37 | |
| _MeeGoBot_ | Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=9723 enh, Undecided, ---, nm, ACCE, [FEA] Add Das u-boot package | 21:37 |
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| Jay_BEE | seems nm isn't able to edit the 'target build' field in bugzilla for this bug :( | 21:39 |
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| Jay_BEE | ^bug^enhancement | 21:41 |
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| arfoll | my netbook beeps at me when I turn it on.... | 21:48 |
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| Chani | huh. everyone disappeared. | 21:57 |
| * Chani goes home | 21:57 | |
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| rhkfin | http://risto.kurppa.fi/blog/2010/11/first-experiences-with-meego/ | 21:57 |
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| timeless_mbp | oh | 22:03 |
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| timeless_mbp | in case people are wondering... | 22:03 |
| timeless_mbp | on Windows 7, your ideapads can auto rotate the screen to match the orientation in which your pad is being held | 22:03 |
| timeless_mbp | the lenovo people were clever though, it seems to be hidden in its own app instead of near control panel | 22:04 |
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| thiago_home | that means there's a sensor for the screen rotated | 22:04 |
| timeless_mbp | seems to be more like a gyroscope in the pad, i think | 22:04 |
| timeless_mbp | i haven't spent enough time attacking it | 22:04 |
| timeless_mbp | because it works as i move the pad around in 3space | 22:04 |
| timeless_mbp | not just the swivel screen | 22:04 |
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| dm8tbr | accel/gyro is pretty standard issue nowadays. | 22:05 |
| timeless_mbp | oh, and there's a good reason it's off by default | 22:05 |
| timeless_mbp | it's too easily jostled | 22:05 |
| timeless_mbp | and the behavior more or less sucks :) | 22:05 |
| thiago_home | dm8tbr: I don't think it's that sensor | 22:06 |
| thiago_home | I saw it rotate when you closed the screen in the reverse position | 22:06 |
| w00t | I heard someone say it had an accelerometer at some point | 22:06 |
| thiago_home | so it must be a simple contact sensor | 22:06 |
| gabrbedd | any idea what sensor the lenovo is using? | 22:07 |
| gabrbedd | I can't seem to find anything in lsusb or lspci | 22:07 |
| * gabrbedd might be blind, though. | 22:08 | |
| timeless_mbp | yeah, this is different | 22:08 |
| timeless_mbp | there's a contact sensor which is probably always enabled | 22:08 |
| timeless_mbp | which does the basic rotate for swivel/close stuff | 22:08 |
| timeless_mbp | this is different | 22:08 |
| Saviq | daaamn what a backlog... | 22:09 |
| timeless_mbp | there's definitely some accelerometer stuff in the hard drive | 22:09 |
| timeless_mbp | there's software to do magic stuff there | 22:09 |
| timeless_mbp | iirc firefox has code to support exposing accelerometer using hdd agents :) | 22:09 |
| Saviq | lbt: RPMLINT warns about no python-base dependency in packages, but there's no python-base available in the repos | 22:10 |
| Stskeeps | Saviq: file a bug please | 22:10 |
| Saviq | any particular component? | 22:10 |
| Stskeeps | Saviq: package manager? | 22:10 |
| gabrbedd | timeless_mbp: Using the accel. in the hard drive -- that's a smart idea. | 22:10 |
| gabrbedd | timeless_mbp: Do you know which firefox has this hack? | 22:11 |
| timeless_mbp | gabrbedd: it'd be mozilla-central | 22:11 |
| timeless_mbp | i haven't looked for the code | 22:11 |
| Saviq | hmm 'Packaging tools' sounds better | 22:11 |
| timeless_mbp | mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/ ... | 22:11 |
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| Saviq | Stskeeps: does a bug concerning the community OBS actually fits into bugs.meego.com? | 22:12 |
| niala | sivang: I've see your email, to change your meego to meego trunk you must | 22:12 |
| niala | 1: add new repo in /etc/zypp/repos.d http://pastebin.com/QiEvn6pR 2) install release package 'zypper install meego-release' 3) upgrade dist 'zypper dup' | 22:12 |
| Stskeeps | Saviq: same software in use | 22:12 |
| Saviq | that I know | 22:12 |
| Saviq | so probably makes sense | 22:13 |
| Stskeeps | Saviq: rpmlint and rpm is taken as-is, so file a bug | 22:13 |
| timeless_mbp | Saviq: don't worry too much about getting bugs into the right component | 22:13 |
| timeless_mbp | a healthy bug tracker will have people who will fix the component for you | 22:13 |
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| timeless_mbp | just get a healthy bug w/ the right info filed | 22:13 |
| gabrbedd | timeless_mbp: Looks like this is it... http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/dom/system/unix/ | 22:14 |
| timeless_mbp | seems right | 22:15 |
| timeless_mbp | you might want to see if the ideapad has that path | 22:15 |
| timeless_mbp | since it is a lenovo which is related to thinkpad :) | 22:15 |
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| gabrbedd | Looking at the code... looks like it's tying into a kernel driver via /sys/devices/platform/blah/blah | 22:16 |
| timeless_mbp | yep | 22:16 |
| lcuk | anyone know how I can make the cursor flash in editors | 22:18 |
| timeless_mbp | caret or mouse cursor? | 22:19 |
| odin_ | as in text mode ? editor ? | 22:19 |
| lcuk | text entry boxes | 22:19 |
| lcuk | the cursor is limegreen on white background and doesn't flash | 22:20 |
| odin_ | of Qt GUI widgets ? | 22:20 |
| lcuk | its the same in gedit | 22:20 |
| niala | question: to answer an email from meego-dev i must do: answer to the list or only answer ? | 22:20 |
| Stskeeps | both | 22:20 |
| thiago_home | niala: "reply to list" | 22:20 |
| niala | ty | 22:20 |
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| lbt | meh... reply-all | 22:21 |
| * arfoll just has XBMC rc1 with touchscreen on his lenovo netbook! | 22:21 | |
| lbt | DawnFoster: ping | 22:21 |
| Stskeeps | arfoll: woo | 22:21 |
| odin_ | lcuk, well often text box entry cursor blinking is turned off for X11 application, as I believe it requires the application to keep sending a data stream in sympathy with it (which is not good on network bandwidth or battery usage), I think that is the history of the why, as for the solution ??? | 22:23 |
| gabrbedd | timeless_mbp: my ideapad does not have that path. (S10-3t) | 22:24 |
| timeless_mbp | gabrbedd: oh well :) | 22:24 |
| timeless_mbp | got any paths that end in those two file names? :) | 22:24 |
| lcuk | odin_, it blinks on gedit on my other laptop | 22:26 |
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| lcuk | unless due to the compositing now theres a drastic requirement not to | 22:26 |
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| gabrbedd | timeless_mbp: Nope. But you've given me an awesome clue on where to look for all this stuff... and that's worth a thousand entries in /sys | 22:27 |
| lcuk | odin_, the color does not help its case in gedit - in other places its an alternative color and thicker | 22:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | gabrbedd: timeless_mbp: not all drives have a g-meter, and even for those that do, there's for sure no standard API to get any data about orientation across (S)ATA | 22:29 |
| * timeless_mbp nods | 22:30 | |
| gabrbedd | DocScrutinizer: Yeah, but before I deleted Windows -- I think this thing /did/ have some accelerometer smarts. | 22:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | I.E. using g-meter of a drive is a very specailized non-partable hack | 22:30 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm still using w7 on it | 22:30 |
| timeless_mbp | partially to figure out what features it has | 22:30 |
| timeless_mbp | DocScrutinizer: sure | 22:30 |
| timeless_mbp | but sometimes you just want to support the feature | 22:30 |
| timeless_mbp | and are willing to pay for the cost of supporting lots of stupid systems | 22:31 |
| timeless_mbp | until they're standardized | 22:31 |
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| timeless_mbp | oh cute | 22:32 |
| timeless_mbp | "VeriTouch" lets me make a stroke to lock or reboot my computer | 22:32 |
| timeless_mbp | and "VeriFace" lets me leave a message at the login screen | 22:33 |
| thiago_home | houw about VeriSign? | 22:34 |
| thp | lcuk: gnome-keyboard-properties, "Cursor blinking" maybe? | 22:35 |
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| gabrbedd | thiago_home: It charges $3000 to your credit card for a certificate. | 22:36 |
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| timeless_mbp | hrm | 22:40 |
| timeless_mbp | has anyone here played w/ w7 dashboard widgets? | 22:40 |
| timeless_mbp | they have very easy to use snap too behaviors | 22:40 |
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| timeless_mbp | (unlike say.... maemo) | 22:40 |
| marnanel | in case anyone wants to beta test MeeGo robotfindskitten → http://marnanel.dreamwidth.org/174015.html | 22:40 |
| timeless_mbp | marnanel: hint: you don't want the app name to wrap inconveniently ... | 22:41 |
| marnanel | timeless_mbp: this is true, but I'm not sure what to do about it | 22:41 |
| marnanel | timeless_mbp: it would look almost as bad with spaces | 22:41 |
| timeless_mbp | Robot Finds Kitten | 22:42 |
| timeless_mbp | ... still better than | 22:42 |
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| timeless_mbp | robotfindskitte | 22:42 |
| timeless_mbp | n | 22:42 |
| marnanel | timeless_mbp: well yeah, but the name of the game is specifically "robotfindskitten", and it would look like I didn't know that (maybe) | 22:42 |
| marnanel | (not my choice of name!) | 22:42 |
| timeless_mbp | anyone annoying enough not to understand you're trying to target mortals deserves to be beaten with a usability bat | 22:43 |
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| marnanel | you have a good point :) | 22:44 |
| timeless_mbp | thank you | 22:44 |
| lcuk | thp, thanks I will look later | 22:45 |
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| timeless_mbp | ooh | 22:46 |
| timeless_mbp | the windows 7 taskbar clock lets me add 2 extra clocks | 22:46 |
| timeless_mbp | (for alternate time zones) | 22:46 |
| lbt | marnanel: would you care to put robotfindskitten on the OBS ? | 22:46 |
| marnanel | lbt: I would love to. First I will have to read up on how to use the OBS though :) | 22:47 |
| lbt | what's your meego.com account? | 22:47 |
| marnanel | tthurman | 22:47 |
| lbt | we want to encourage ppa-s | 22:48 |
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| lbt | maemo had issues with scattered repos so ... :) | 22:48 |
| lbt | done | 22:48 |
| lbt | use meego credentials at https://build.pub.meego.com/ | 22:48 |
| timeless_mbp | hey.... someone was asking about blinking cursors on meego? | 22:49 |
| timeless_mbp | Windows lets me do stuff about that... | 22:49 |
| marnanel | yay, thanks. (I will get on that later this evening when I've finished tidying the kitchen) | 22:49 |
| lbt | hehe ... I just finished ;) | 22:49 |
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| arfoll | lbt, I've noticed the repos on the new OBS are on crepo.meego.com - is that normal? | 22:49 |
| timeless_mbp | eep | 22:50 |
| timeless_mbp | there's a carousel in here too | 22:50 |
| lbt | no... we only got DNS changed on saturday | 22:50 |
| timeless_mbp | hey, does meego have a sound recorder app? | 22:50 |
| timeless_mbp | i keep telling people i need one | 22:50 |
| lbt | the old c* names are deprecated.... but we've not been home long enough to fix 'em | 22:50 |
| timeless_mbp | -- maemo doesn't ship w/ one | 22:50 |
| timeless_mbp | symbian iiuc did | 22:51 |
| timeless_mbp | (s60) | 22:51 |
| lbt | arfoll: specifically where? | 22:51 |
| arfoll | when you click on the repo through the links from OBS | 22:51 |
| smoku | lbt, is build.pub open, or are you just testing? | 22:51 |
| lbt | smoku: open | 22:51 |
| arfoll | lbt, no wait - it's from my *.repo files | 22:51 |
| Saviq | and alive! | 22:51 |
| lbt | arfoll: by "specifically" I meant.... | 22:52 |
| smoku | lbt, I cannot log in with my meego account | 22:52 |
| lbt | smoku: tell me your meego account | 22:52 |
| smoku | lbt, smoku | 22:52 |
| lbt | done | 22:52 |
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| lbt | arfoll: ah... | 22:52 |
| lbt | eek | 22:52 |
| Mek | alive and non-stop busy for the past 10 hours at least | 22:52 |
| arfoll | lbt, guessing it's not normal then ;-) | 22:53 |
| smoku | lbt, oh. so it's not really open but 'after approval', right? | 22:53 |
| lbt | smoku: meh... we'll figure it out | 22:53 |
| timeless_mbp | smoku: requiring signup isn't really closed | 22:53 |
| timeless_mbp | not offering sign up is closed | 22:53 |
| lbt | it is open but we're just early days... | 22:53 |
| lbt | irc is like our captcha ;) | 22:54 |
| smoku | timeless_mbp, sure. but every other *.meego.com part "just works" | 22:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | timeless_mbp: what's about non-printing-whitespace or similar in long icon names? | 22:54 |
| timeless_mbp | ? | 22:55 |
| smoku | lbt, i get it. :) | 22:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | timeless_mbp: robot\005finds\005kitten | 22:55 |
| smoku | lbt, so, may I move my obs.maemo.org stuff there? | 22:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | something like that | 22:55 |
| * timeless_mbp slaps DocScrutinizer | 22:55 | |
| timeless_mbp | DocScrutinizer: "Tetris" is a better name than "Blocks" | 22:56 |
| lbt | smoku: asap (but we don't have a fremantle setup just yet... it will come) | 22:56 |
| smoku | lbt, i have only MeeGo stuff | 22:56 |
| smoku | and compiling it against 1.1 would be nice :) | 22:56 |
| lbt | smoku: fabo_ may have some scripts that could help | 22:56 |
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| lbt | smoku: could you clean up behind when you're happy... ask others to do the same | 22:57 |
| smoku | lbt, sure. | 22:57 |
| lbt | will make it easier to close down | 22:57 |
| lbt | mmm | 22:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | timeless_mbp: while I tend to agree on "Tetris" I don't really get your point | 22:59 |
| smoku | will 'MeeGo Extras' repositories work like 'Maemo Extras'? | 23:01 |
| fcrochik | lbt: how can I get access to the obs? I would like to contribute some ports of applications I developed for the n900 | 23:02 |
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| Saviq | smoku: check out http://wiki.meego.com/Build_Infrastructure/Community_Builder | 23:02 |
| lcuk | RevdKathy, :) another awesome posting | 23:02 |
| lcuk | http://revdkathy.livejournal.com/ | 23:02 |
| Saviq | fcrochik: say your name, say your name (i.e. your OBS name) | 23:02 |
| RevdKathy | Is it ok? | 23:02 |
| lcuk | you are now more technically advanced on it than me! | 23:03 |
| lbt | fcrochik: Saviq means your meego.com account name | 23:03 |
| lcuk | hey david \o | 23:03 |
| Saviq | ^ yeah, that... | 23:03 |
| lbt | hi | 23:03 |
| smoku | Saviq, google didn't give me this page. isn't wiki indexed? | 23:03 |
| fcrochik | lbt: my meego.com account is fcrochik | 23:03 |
| Saviq | smoku: might not be just yet, it's quite new AFAIK | 23:03 |
| lbt | done | 23:03 |
| lbt | it often is the same as irc... but not always | 23:04 |
| lbt | lcuk: recovering ? | 23:04 |
| smoku | Saviq, oh. i get it. extras section added today :) | 23:04 |
| fcrochik | lbt: any doc with instructions or anything I should know? I assume this is how I can build an application that eventually will end up on the garage...is that right? | 23:05 |
| lbt | correct... | 23:05 |
| lbt | there are docs somewhere | 23:05 |
| smoku | lbt, is there no option to build for MeeGo current? I don't see it on add_repository_from_default_list | 23:05 |
| lbt | check Saviq's link | 23:05 |
| arfoll | smoku, click the advanced interface or w/e it's called | 23:06 |
| lbt | smoku: no... it's not there by default. Can be done though | 23:06 |
| smoku | fcrochik, go to opensuse wiki and search for "obs" there. they have pretty extensive OBS documentation | 23:06 |
| lbt | build against MeeGo current Extras Netbook | 23:06 |
| timeless_mbp | yay, | 23:07 |
| lcuk | lbt yeah muchly | 23:07 |
| * timeless_mbp crashes ie | 23:07 | |
| lcuk | I went out to an Irish bar last night and drunk guinness all night with some friends :) | 23:07 |
| lcuk | hair of the dog :P | 23:07 |
| lbt | for a change... | 23:07 |
| smoku | fcrochik, or just go to http://en.opensuse.org/Build_Service :) | 23:07 |
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| lcuk | haha | 23:07 |
| fcrochik | lbt: what is the obs url for meego again? can't remember or find | 23:07 |
| lbt | nobody tell him unless he promises to edit the wiki | 23:08 |
| fcrochik | me? | 23:08 |
| lbt | you | 23:08 |
| lbt | promise? | 23:08 |
| fcrochik | edit what wiki? | 23:08 |
| smoku | arfoll, thanks for the hint. I have it :) | 23:08 |
| lbt | http://wiki.meego.com/Build_Infrastructure/Community_Builder | 23:08 |
| arfoll | snoku, have you got opengles on the dell streak? | 23:09 |
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| smoku | arfoll, no way :( | 23:09 |
| smoku | arfoll, I hit that wall hard. on three different ways ;-) | 23:09 |
| arfoll | smoku, :-( I guess that's the main problem with all devices... | 23:09 |
| lbt | fcrochik: and... create the 2nd entry "Getting access to the OBS" :) | 23:09 |
| smoku | arfoll, not all. TI OMAP is an exception | 23:10 |
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| fcrochik | lbt: as long as you tell me what I need to write? :) | 23:10 |
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| arfoll | smoku, do they have open drivers for that? | 23:10 |
| *** phaeron has left #meego | 23:10 | |
| *** phaeron has joined #meego | 23:10 | |
| arfoll | on omap4/omap3? | 23:10 |
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| lcuk | fcrochik, how about you write what you think it needs | 23:11 |
| lcuk | and lbt and others will help guide from there | 23:11 |
| lbt | fcrochik: what would have helped you ? (and the url is https://build.pub.meego.com ... since you'll need that) | 23:11 |
| smoku | arfoll, depends how you define open. there are drivers for linux available and they are redistributable. if you can live with binaries | 23:11 |
| fcrochik | lbt: what should I write about who to contact to gain access to it? | 23:12 |
| lbt | yup... | 23:12 |
| fcrochik | lbt: try to contact you? | 23:12 |
| lbt | yes... not much... just gets you started on the wiki | 23:12 |
| RevdKathy | timoph: you still taking suggestions for things to add to the repo? lcuk just pointed out we need a book reader please. Great idea. :) | 23:12 |
| arfoll | smoku, ok so you can't compile them - so it'll work till they stop providing meego drivers | 23:13 |
| smoku | arfoll, or there are changes in the kernel rendering the binary blobs noncompatible. yes. | 23:14 |
| arfoll | still pretty sucky then | 23:15 |
| timeless_mbp | RevdKathy: got pictures of the people you hung w/? | 23:15 |
| * timeless_mbp doesn't recognize Erika by name | 23:15 | |
| RevdKathy | timeless_mbp not many. Most of my photos seem to be of pints of Guinness! | 23:16 |
| smoku | arfoll, better than nothing | 23:16 |
| timeless_mbp | and your bear ;-) | 23:16 |
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| RevdKathy | Erika was/ is one of the organisers. She had responsibility for the helpdesk | 23:16 |
| arfoll | smoku, we'll just have to be really nice to TI | 23:16 |
| timeless_mbp | btw... did the n900 terminal scare you in a specific way? | 23:16 |
| timeless_mbp | also isn't "current mood" on your blog misleading? | 23:17 |
| RevdKathy | I think a lot of the fear was generated by people posting "Don't do this you will break your device" type posts | 23:17 |
| timeless_mbp | doesn't it mean "mood at time this was written"? :) | 23:17 |
| timeless_mbp | RevdKathy: hrm... | 23:17 |
| lcuk | RevdKathy, was Erika the lady from Intel who was sat at the desk? | 23:17 |
| RevdKathy | Well, as it was written this evening, it's pretty valid | 23:18 |
| RevdKathy | lcuk - yes that's right. Lovely girl. | 23:18 |
| * lcuk nods | 23:18 | |
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| lcuk | very knowledgable and frendly | 23:18 |
| RevdKathy | lcuk: extremely | 23:18 |
| lcuk | we considered getting you a walkie talkie | 23:18 |
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| lcuk | the security guard missed you after you had left | 23:18 |
| *** trevorj has joined #meego | 23:18 | |
| RevdKathy | lcuk: they offered me one at one point as it was lying around. ;) | 23:19 |
| timeless_mbp | heh | 23:19 |
| lcuk | yeah I saw, but one that would work whilst you were on the plane | 23:19 |
| * timeless_mbp remembers complaining about how people use random badges or walkie talkies to mean "trust me" | 23:19 | |
| RevdKathy | lcuk: I think I was a bit of a hit with the security guard. He carried my bag for me and everything! | 23:19 |
| lcuk | yeah of course Kathy, your presence made a lot of people smile :) | 23:20 |
| RevdKathy | timeless_mbp I declined the walkie-talkie. They were for Real Organisers. My badge was clearly that of a violunteer | 23:20 |
| RevdKathy | or even volunteer | 23:20 |
| lbt | RevdKathy: "maemo.org has the opportunity to demonstrate to meego.com the potential value of having a mix of skills and people" ... very true :) | 23:21 |
| GAN900 | lbt, where's that quote? | 23:21 |
| lbt | I really want to make the obs a good place to extend maemo into meego | 23:21 |
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| lbt | GAN900: her blog | 23:21 |
| GAN900 | Ah | 23:22 |
| GAN900 | That post got a thumb down somehow. | 23:22 |
| RevdKathy | lbt: Gosh! did I say that? Was I sober? | 23:22 |
| * Jaffa noticed that. | 23:22 | |
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| Jaffa | We should start a series of blog posts asking why things get thumbed down. | 23:23 |
| Jaffa | Or... not. | 23:23 |
| lbt | RevdKathy: you know Niels and I fixed the MeeGo OBS so we can make most of the N900 maemo extras apps on their? | 23:23 |
| RevdKathy | lbt - that would be awesome. I'd love to have more of the maemo apps available. | 23:23 |
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| lbt | so maemo devs have a pathway to meego (or can stick with maemo) | 23:23 |
| Jaffa | lbt: BTW, is there a bit in the wiki about submitting to the OBS rather than the auto-builder? Does it output into a PPA-style Debian repo? | 23:23 |
| lbt | or can build for both | 23:23 |
| Saviq | RevdKathy: the slides are there http://conference2010.meego.com/session/strategic-freedom-meego | 23:23 |
| Saviq | on the left hand side | 23:23 |
| * Jaffa bahs at the MeeGo Touch vkb not working. | 23:23 | |
| * Jaffa goes poking in Terminal some more. | 23:24 | |
| lbt | Jaffa: I've not gotten fremantle into the meego OBS yet... it's in the maemo OBS | 23:24 |
| lbt | we probably need to sort out a group/eula thing | 23:24 |
| lbt | which of course is useful to support other device makers who do the same thing | 23:24 |
| timeless_mbp | wow | 23:24 |
| fcrochik | lbt: ok....one more inauguration for me... just updated the page with a "how to get started" | 23:24 |
| Jaffa | lbt: Ah, true | 23:24 |
| timeless_mbp | the bejewelled impl for the n900 is seriously crippled | 23:25 |
| RevdKathy | Someone thumbs-downs all my posts, GAN900, Jaffa. I think it's personal rather than content. | 23:25 |
| * timeless_mbp is using the flash one on msn | 23:25 | |
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| fcrochik | lbt: I would suggest that we need a little more information on who and how to contact to gain access to the obs | 23:25 |
| lbt | fcrochik: yay... another wiki editor ... welcome | 23:25 |
| Jaffa | Ah, the keyboard is an enormous SVG. How tempting. | 23:25 |
| Jaffa | Someone should tell Texrat | 23:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer | hi RevdKathy :-) | 23:30 |
| timeless_mbp | i can fight either side, i'm more curious about how you came to your opinion | 23:30 |
| RevdKathy | Hi DocScrutinizer How're you tonight? | 23:30 |
| arfoll | timeless_mbp, his presentation was Strategic Freedom.... The freedom part makes PPT ironic that's all | 23:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | RevdKathy: Saturday night boredom, and hungry for a burger, since GAN900 explained to me how they should taste | 23:31 |
| GAN900 | Jaffa, the irony is truly enjoyable, isn't it? | 23:31 |
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| marnanel | lbt: it won't let me log into https://build.pub.meego.com ; I only just changed my password on the main site, so does it take time to propagate or something? | 23:31 |
| GAN900 | RevdKathy, ah, well, I know how that goes. | 23:32 |
| GAN900 | Jaffa, and don't be hateful. :P | 23:32 |
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| lbt | marnanel: an hour | 23:33 |
| RevdKathy | DocScrutinizer: it's kind of sad we're all here on IRC. If we were in person with some Guinness it would all be so different! | 23:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer | :nod: | 23:33 |
| marnanel | it really annoys me when people thumbs-down content because they have some kind of vendetta against the person rather than what they're saying | 23:33 |
| Jaffa | GAN900: I'm being hateful now? Goodo. | 23:33 |
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| lcuk | irc to voice plugin/app for the devices (using the focused channel would be best way) | 23:35 |
| marnanel | lbt: cheers, will go and tidy the kitchen some more then :) | 23:35 |
| lbt | hehe | 23:36 |
| lcuk | i have seen custom implementations using high powered hardware and windows code and stuff | 23:36 |
| lcuk | but nothing as simple as a plugin for xchat | 23:36 |
| RevdKathy | I suspect someone object to my gossipy non-tech blog in principle. | 23:36 |
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| timeless_mbp | arfoll: ah, url for presentation? | 23:37 |
| lcuk | GAN900, whats the name of that case you have around you N900? | 23:37 |
| GAN900 | lcuk, zerojay had something like that. I think it was called "7-year-old". | 23:37 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: "Ugly" ;-) | 23:37 |
| GAN900 | lcuk, OtterBox. | 23:37 |
| GAN900 | Jaffa, hater. | 23:37 |
| Jaffa | Yay | 23:37 |
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| lcuk | Jaffa, its the only one I have seen that sticks on properly | 23:37 |
| lcuk | thanks | 23:37 |
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| Jaffa | GAN900: Get me some free beer and I'll mellow again | 23:38 |
| GAN900 | Jaffa, go back to Ireland. | 23:38 |
| lcuk | no need | 23:38 |
| lcuk | irish bars exist all over | 23:38 |
| GAN900 | Apparently Guinness is free there. | 23:38 |
| arfoll | http://conference2010.meego.com/sites/all/files/sessions/fisher_meego_keynote_v4a.pdf | 23:38 |
| * lcuk drank heartily in one last night | 23:38 | |
| * thiago_home wants a MeeGo Confernece soon | 23:38 | |
| lcuk | with great service and a folk band too! | 23:38 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: Cool | 23:38 |
| arfoll | timeless_mbp, it's quite a good presentation (as far as keynotes get anyways) | 23:38 |
| GAN900 | thiago_home, yeah, I'm about recharged and ready. | 23:38 |
| lcuk | O'Neills in Bury ;) | 23:39 |
| marnanel | I just realised that now I can discover whether the Irish bars here are anything like the real thing | 23:39 |
| lcuk | yes marnanel | 23:39 |
| Jaffa | marnanel: Full of tourists everywhere ;-) | 23:39 |
| * RevdKathy passes Jaffa a bottle of Doom Bar | 23:39 | |
| lbt | irish mist | 23:41 |
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| Jaffa | lbt: Ireland is, indeed, missed. | 23:41 |
| lbt | :) | 23:41 |
| timeless_mbp | arfoll: i think i skipped all the keynotes :o | 23:43 |
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| arfoll | timeless_mbp, I managed to miss the last two although I was in the room just started chatting and stopped listening... | 23:43 |
| GAN900 | timeless_mbp, just as well. | 23:44 |
| GAN900 | timeless_mbp, Stskeeps was the only worthwhile thing. | 23:45 |
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| arfoll | timeless_mbp, no! the free laptops where announced! | 23:45 |
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| GAN900 | Though the irony of the TSG was entertaining. | 23:48 |
| Cygoku | How do I install Brasero for Meego under my Netbook ?? | 23:48 |
| Cygoku | Or how can I use the startup disk creator under Meego ?? | 23:48 |
| thiago_home | Cygoku: do you have a CD burner in your netbook? | 23:49 |
| lcuk | frals, | 23:49 |
| Cygoku | I do have an external ASUS DVD Burner. | 23:49 |
| lcuk | if I put a sim card in the ideapad and install fmms, will magic be possible? | 23:49 |
| frals | lcuk: no | 23:49 |
| lcuk | frals, is fmms coming to meego handset soon? | 23:49 |
| GAN900 | lcuk, got a modem? | 23:50 |
| * Jay_BEE looks around | 23:50 | |
| RevdKathy | frals: lcuk: that was a short and to-the-point answer! | 23:50 |
| GAN900 | If you get a modem. . . . | 23:50 |
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| frals | lcuk: not afaik, as it depends on wappushd being there which is nokia closed last i looked | 23:50 |
| GAN900 | Doesn't MeeGo handset have MMS? | 23:50 |
| timeless_mbp | arfoll: well, i have one of those free netbooks on my lap now | 23:50 |
| timeless_mbp | so i guess not much harm there | 23:50 |
| timeless_mbp | GAN900: irony? | 23:50 |
| RevdKathy | Right: time I went to bed. The bears are calling me. 'Night all. | 23:50 |
| lcuk | whats the slot for under the battery on the ideapad? | 23:50 |
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| timeless_mbp | lcuk: does the ideapad have a modem? | 23:51 |
| lcuk | frals, shame | 23:51 |
| lbt | lcuk: aha | 23:51 |
| lcuk | we should see what can be done to get it running :) | 23:51 |
| GAN900 | timeless_mbp, Zemlin asked a bunch of scripted questions, opened Q&A, then continued asking his own questions until time ran out. | 23:51 |
| GAN900 | timeless_mbp, SIM slot | 23:51 |
| Cygoku | No one here knows how can I create a startup disk under Meego Netbook Edition ?? | 23:51 |
| GAN900 | It needs a PCIe modem, though. | 23:51 |
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| thiago_home | the Q&A needed more time for audience questions, agreed | 23:52 |
| thiago_home | add that to the feedback page | 23:52 |
| GAN900 | thiago_home, I figure if you have a panel, that should be self evident. | 23:53 |
| thiago_home | yeah | 23:53 |
| lcuk | GAN900, so its got place for sim | 23:53 |
| lcuk | but cant make use of it? | 23:53 |
| thiago_home | I don't mind a question or two to get it started | 23:53 |
| ofauchon | Hi. "mad-admin create -f meego-handset-ia32-qemu-1.1.20101031.2201-sda-runtime is there some mirror configuration or something else ? thx | 23:53 |
| GAN900 | lcuk, just need a modem. | 23:53 |
| GAN900 | For the third time. :P | 23:54 |
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| ofauchon | is slow sorry | 23:54 |
| thiago_home | but there were too many from him | 23:54 |
| GAN900 | thiago_home, indeed not. | 23:54 |
| lcuk | that part doesnt make much sense, so at the moment the sim is just a sim reader basically? | 23:54 |
| thiago_home | then again, the first person who asked question asked a two-part multiple-level one | 23:54 |
| GAN900 | thiago_home, whole thing was him. *g* | 23:54 |
| Cygoku | Is this place of any help usually ?? | 23:54 |
| GAN900 | lcuk, drop in a PCIe modem. | 23:54 |
| thiago_home | Cygoku: yes | 23:54 |
| timeless_mbp | GAN900: clever | 23:54 |
| Cygoku | I see. | 23:54 |
| GAN900 | Somebody has an oFono compatible list somewhere. | 23:55 |
| Cygoku | Well then ! | 23:55 |
| lcuk | i like the big extended battery :) | 23:55 |
| lcuk | meego lasts for ages | 23:55 |
| GAN900 | lcuk, too big | 23:55 |
| GAN900 | defeats the tablet mode | 23:55 |
| lcuk | then get yourself a smaller one | 23:55 |
| GAN900 | (though Netbook UX defeats it harder) | 23:55 |
| GAN900 | Might | 23:55 |
| thiago_home | it serves as a handle for tablet mode | 23:55 |
| lcuk | yeah | 23:56 |
| lcuk | thiago_home, book spine :) | 23:56 |
| lcuk | when we have rotation working i can see myself reading from it happily | 23:56 |
| thiago_home | it's too heavy | 23:56 |
| lcuk | sure for carrying, but its ok as a prototype :) | 23:57 |
| Cygoku | I wanna get rid of meego, but need to create a usb stick with meerkat, I am fudged under meego to do that. | 23:57 |
| Cygoku | Please help. | 23:57 |
| lcuk | Cygoku, you are in the meego channel | 23:57 |
| tybollt | GAN900: so whatchs think of the current state of meego? | 23:57 |
| GAN900 | thiago_home, oof, feels a little fragile for that to me. | 23:57 |
| GAN900 | tybollt, well. . . . | 23:58 |
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| thiago_home | Cygoku: our job is to get you to install MeeGo. if you have it already, then our job is done. | 23:58 |
| * tybollt tried the demo last night - fairly depressing :) | 23:58 | |
| tybollt | GAN900: :) | 23:58 |
| GAN900 | (you're supposed to run off to talk to Amy there) | 23:58 |
| Cygoku | Meego is not suitable for my needs right now. | 23:58 |
| sivang | re | 23:58 |
| lcuk | Cygoku, then go and read instructions elsewhere | 23:58 |
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| timeless_mbp | yeah, i'm not sure i dislike the battery-handle | 23:58 |
| Cygoku | I cannot wait to tell msg board how ppl from the meego community treats ppl in help. | 23:59 |
| GAN900 | tybollt, seriously, though, the Netbook UX is too much the rough-edged toy for me right now. | 23:59 |
| lcuk | the restore OS button needs functionality | 23:59 |
| thiago_home | GAN900: me talk to amy? why? | 23:59 |
| lcuk | for now its ok but for later we will need to find a way to make it work :) | 23:59 |
| sivang | thiago_home: I want a conf soon as well, this time to get some musical instruments and form a band BOF | 23:59 |
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