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| madde55 | hi, should the meego-sdk version of qemu work with 64 bit system by default, or should I build it from the scratch as instructed in dev wiki? | 00:16 |
|---|---|---|
| madde55 | because now I'm using the sdk version which seems to be installed ok, but the qemu boot fails | 00:17 |
| madde55 | I was attempting this: mad remote -r meego-handset-ia32-qemu-1.1.20101031.2201-sda-runtime poweron | 00:17 |
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| chemfy | madde55, what operation system are you running ? | 00:18 |
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| madde55 | ubuntu, 10.10 64bit | 00:18 |
| chemfy | There seems to be something wrong between qemu and ubuntu 10.10 which makes it fail at boot. http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=1856 | 00:19 |
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| madde55 | punch.. I knew I was looking for trouble when I installed the 10.10 instead of 10.4, now it realized :D | 00:20 |
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| chemfy | :) | 00:21 |
| madde55 | I guess the problem resolving work is ongoing in Meego side and the 10.10 should be supported hopefully soon? | 00:22 |
| chemfy | donno | 00:23 |
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| madde55 | ok, thanks for the info anyway.. | 00:26 |
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| CosmoHill | Fireworks go boom :) | 00:39 |
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| timeless_mbp | anyone know anything about room size for talks @meego conf? | 00:44 |
| Stskeeps | yours is in what room? | 00:45 |
| timeless_mbp | "how would i know?" :) | 00:45 |
| Stskeeps | http://conference2010.meego.com/program/schedule | 00:46 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 00:46 |
| timeless_mbp | sure, i'll take anything you give me :) | 00:46 |
| * Stskeeps finds size | 00:46 | |
| timeless_mbp | hrm, including a pointer to my talk name ;-) | 00:46 |
| timeless_mbp | oh wow, it lists speakers | 00:47 |
| timeless_mbp | nice, *click* | 00:47 |
| Stskeeps | 120 'cab', whatever it means.. | 00:47 |
| timeless_mbp | we talked about CAB w/ sp3000 and DawnFoster earlier iirc | 00:47 |
| timeless_mbp | it's caberet style seating | 00:47 |
| timeless_mbp | http://www.lmc.ac.uk/home/images/business/cabaret.jpg | 00:48 |
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| * timeless_mbp ponders | 00:48 | |
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| Stskeeps | bbl sleep | 00:48 |
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| timeless_mbp | hrm, sounds good | 00:49 |
| timeless_mbp | i have a flight in <20hrs | 00:49 |
| timeless_mbp | (not sure when) | 00:49 |
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| timeless_mbp | (actually, two flights) | 00:49 |
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| geysi | hello everyone | 00:50 |
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| geysi | I've got a question about Meego install | 00:51 |
| geysi | I've a Samsung N220 with Win7 pre-installed | 00:51 |
| geysi | I've deleted the D: partition (extended one) and install there a "default layout" during Meego installation | 00:51 |
| geysi | all install went fine. But when reboot I get this: | 00:52 |
| geysi | Going to rescue mode | 00:52 |
| geysi | grub rescue> | 00:52 |
| geysi | is it because the /bott (ext3) partition is in the extended partition? | 00:52 |
| CosmoHill | it won't be because it's an extended partitijon | 00:53 |
| CosmoHill | also are you saying D drive or is that a shocked smiley? | 00:53 |
| geysi | I was stating D drive ;) | 00:54 |
| geysi | hmm I don't know how to solve, I've already 3 prime partition: Recovery, System (200MB don't know what it is?) and Win7, all created by default Samsung install | 00:55 |
| geysi | so I can't have /boot as prime, or do you have a good idea? | 00:55 |
| geysi | (thanks for helping me by the way!) | 00:56 |
| CosmoHill | Windows 7 creates a small partition for it's needs | 00:59 |
| CosmoHill | you don't need /boot as primary | 01:00 |
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| CosmoHill | at least I'm pretty sure you don't | 01:00 |
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| geysi | ok, then do you have a clue why grub fails? | 01:01 |
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| geysi | oh yeah, I'm using Meego 1.1 (in case this is useful) | 01:03 |
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| geysi | perhaps is there a solution that I boot with a live USB and install a new grub configuration | 01:04 |
| geysi | do you know of any tutorial? A search didn't help me :-( | 01:04 |
| CosmoHill | can you type "root (" and then tab | 01:05 |
| geysi | tab doesn't do anything, but my '/boot' partition should be hd0,5 (it's sda6) | 01:06 |
| geysi | if I do 'root (hd0,5)' it replis - oddly - (hd0,5): Filesystem is fat. | 01:07 |
| CosmoHill | hmm | 01:07 |
| geysi | which puzzle me, esp. since ls (hd0,5) shows one dir named grub.... | 01:07 |
| CosmoHill | try hd0,6 | 01:07 |
| geysi | filesystem unknown for hd0,6 | 01:07 |
| geysi | (same for 7 and 8) | 01:08 |
| CosmoHill | hmm | 01:08 |
| * CosmoHill grabs his notes | 01:08 | |
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| CosmoHill | geysi: try "lnsmod ext2" | 01:09 |
| CosmoHill | that might be an "i" instead of an "L" | 01:09 |
| geysi | got unknown filesystem | 01:10 |
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| CosmoHill | that should have loaded the ext2 module for grub | 01:11 |
| geysi | when I do 'root (hd0,5)' and then ls I see 'grub/' if I ls there, I see lots of files (device.map, normal.mod, etc.) | 01:11 |
| CosmoHill | ah okay | 01:11 |
| CosmoHill | you have that as root | 01:11 |
| CosmoHill | now type | 01:12 |
| CosmoHill | linux /kernel-1.2.3-vmlinuz (you'll have to search for your run) | 01:12 |
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| CosmoHill | then initrd /initrd_file (you'll have to search for that too, pretty sure meego doesn't have one) | 01:13 |
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| bambule | hi guys, i am just starting out with meego. one thing that surprised me is that meego is using swap. | 01:14 |
| CosmoHill | how much RAM do you have? | 01:14 |
| bambule | none, i am just playing with the emulator/reading up on meego | 01:15 |
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| bambule | its more that i am wondering what planed there in general. | 01:15 |
| bambule | swaping tends to cost battery for example | 01:15 |
| CosmoHill | ah okay I thought you had a computer with little RAM | 01:15 |
| CosmoHill | it's better to use swap on a slow device than to have your computer freeze | 01:16 |
| bambule | well it wont freeze the OOM killer will step in at some point ;-) | 01:16 |
| geysi | hmm I don't see any kernel file... nor initrd one | 01:16 |
| CosmoHill | can you type "ls /" and pastebin the output | 01:17 |
| bambule | i am just wondering in general. if you compare this for example with android its quite different | 01:17 |
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| geysi | 'ls /' only displays 'grub/' I guess something went wrong during installation (though no error was displayed) | 01:18 |
| bambule | android apps have a life cycle and can in case of memory pressure by asked to prepare for being destroyed and later on restored (when access again by the user) | 01:18 |
| berndhs | bambule: seems like an awkward way to swap | 01:20 |
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| CosmoHill | geysi: oh that's not good | 01:21 |
| bambule | berndhs: yes, in some way it is. on the other way you have quite a bit of control over it. | 01:22 |
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| berndhs | bambule: yes but you need the app to cooperate in its own swapping, that doesn't seem good | 01:23 |
| geysi_ | sorry got disconnected | 01:23 |
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| CosmoHill | geysi: oh that's not good | 01:23 |
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| bambule | berndhs: well, its more then swapping, it goes through a number of states like, created, backgroud, foreground, aboutToBeDestroyed, etc | 01:24 |
| bambule | berndhs: also you don't really need to store all the internal state of you app | 01:24 |
| geysi_ | I've been reinstalling Meego a few times now, and actually I end up in the same configuration each time ... I guess it does not work on this particular netbook | 01:25 |
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| bambule | berndhs: as an extrem example a webbrowser might just wont to remember its tabs and the urls | 01:25 |
| bambule | berndhs: i am advocating one over the other. i just want to figure out the meego way | 01:25 |
| berndhs | bambule: its non-preemptive swapping, sort of | 01:25 |
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| geysi_ | ok anyway, I think I'm stuck... going to try to restore my MBR and try Meego 1.2 when it'll be out | 01:26 |
| berndhs | bambule: it looks like they are putting a lot of the complexity in teh app, and if (rather when) the app is not well behaved ... | 01:26 |
| bambule | berndhs: btw. does this mean the a meego device always needs a flash memory for swap? swapping the a harddrive isn't fun when running on battery | 01:26 |
| berndhs | bambule: I'm not sure how meego does that, was just surprised to hear about android doing something like that | 01:27 |
| geysi_ | thanks a lot CosmoHill | 01:27 |
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| CosmoHill | geysi_: if you want to try MeeGo 1.1 you can run it from USB | 01:28 |
| CosmoHill | or DVD | 01:28 |
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| bambule | http://developer.android.com/reference/android/app/Activity.html#ActivityLifecycle | 01:28 |
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| berndhs | berndhs: you would get all kinds of management issues - how do you know how an app would behave, what does it cost to toss it out and bring it back,... | 01:29 |
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| berndhs | bambule: that last one was for you obviously :) | 01:30 |
| bambule | berndhs: thought so :-) | 01:30 |
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| niala | CosmoHill: hello Reading win this WE? | 01:34 |
| CosmoHill | non :( | 01:35 |
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| niala | arf, now you are 7e 8e ? | 01:36 |
| CosmoHill | 10th :( | 01:38 |
| CosmoHill | we lost 3 - 1 to the current leaders | 01:38 |
| niala | ah leaders that is not too bad | 01:39 |
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| Macer | where is the site that shows current hw status for the n900 and meego? | 02:34 |
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| piratephlox | @Macer wiki.meego.com is probably best for good infos about that. twitter is probably best to keep on the newest things, but if you want stable solutions try the wiki or the forum at meego.com | 02:49 |
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| Myrtti | humdidum | 11:25 |
| Jartza | indeed | 11:25 |
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| josu | /win 26 | 11:47 |
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| Jaffa | Morning, all | 11:50 |
| Stskeeps | morn jaffa - how goes? | 11:50 |
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| Jaffa | Stskeeps: Little bit hung over, but not too bad. | 11:53 |
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| Stskeeps | i'm compiling perl on a sunday morning, so i guess it's a bit like a hangover.. | 11:53 |
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| sivang | Stskeeps: hehe | 12:24 |
| * sivang is off to lunch | 12:24 | |
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| MR2_GT | hey guys | 12:43 |
| CosmoHill | hey | 12:43 |
| MR2_GT | how's it going? | 12:44 |
| CosmoHill | it's going very well | 12:44 |
| MR2_GT | has anyone managed to get msn working in empathy in release 1.1? | 12:45 |
| CosmoHill | that's something I wouldn't know but wait around and someone will be able to answer | 12:48 |
| MR2_GT | all i get is networki error | 12:48 |
| MR2_GT | sweet cheers | 12:49 |
| MR2_GT | irc and facebook chat are working fine | 12:49 |
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| lcuk | hm | 12:51 |
| lcuk | damn he left | 12:51 |
| lcuk | i was gonna post bug 2595 and see if it matched | 12:51 |
| _MeeGoBot_ | Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2595 nor, Undecided, ---, robert.bradford, NEED, None of the Chat Services I'm using AIM, Google Talk, Facebook etc are working. | 12:51 |
| niala1 | yup | 12:53 |
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| CosmoHill | anyone know how to control a power point from a nokia phone via bluetooth? | 13:04 |
| lcuk | CosmoHill, using bluemaemo from the NITs you can control full computer as a HID device with keyboard control etc | 13:05 |
| lcuk | i dont know about a specific maemo oriented clicker tho | 13:05 |
| CosmoHill | mine is symbian | 13:06 |
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| lcuk | look on ovi | 13:06 |
| * CosmoHill goes to the door store | 13:06 | |
| niala | synergy maybe that's exist on symbian ? | 13:07 |
| niala | CosmoHill: be courteous with the seller :) | 13:09 |
| CosmoHill | bluetooth remote control £3 | 13:09 |
| Macer | hm. | 13:10 |
| CosmoHill | sods law says I'll have a dead battery on the day | 13:10 |
| lcuk | can't you just download a new battery | 13:11 |
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| CosmoHill | I can control my blood pressure, diabetes and partner, but not my powerpoint | 13:21 |
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| lcuk | CosmoHill, you have a wife-remote? | 13:21 |
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| CosmoHill | just search for "control" on the ovi store and it should be on the first page | 13:22 |
| lcuk | does it just store credit card numbers ? | 13:23 |
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| CosmoHill | I think you press a control on your phone and it sends it to his/hers | 13:23 |
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| CosmoHill | I found something called Nokia Wireless presenter | 13:26 |
| CosmoHill | oo | 13:28 |
| CosmoHill | bluesuckit looks like a good thing for our uni network | 13:28 |
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| CosmoHill | pst, why isn't the nokia 6220 classic listed on Nokia UK's website? | 13:32 |
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| CosmoHill | sweet, I think I have my phone connected to my laptop as a 3G modem | 13:48 |
| psycho_oreos | if so you'd have option driver loaded on laptop | 13:50 |
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| CosmoHill | it seemed a little stupid using a 3G connection over bluetooth | 13:54 |
| rauli | easier than digging the SIM card out of your phone and inserting it in laptop every time you want to connect to internet | 13:56 |
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| CosmoHill | I've never had a laptop with a sim slot | 14:07 |
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| lcuk | CosmoHill, this one does | 14:22 |
| lcuk | never plugged a sim in tho | 14:23 |
| CosmoHill | I always get annoyed by 3G contracts that come with a new computer and a USB dongle | 14:23 |
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| lcuk | that depends on the kind of thing people want | 14:23 |
| CosmoHill | I mean the ones that come with netbooks | 14:24 |
| lcuk | some folks are happy with a serviced contract and internet included | 14:24 |
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| CosmoHill | the bit that annoys me is the usb dongle part | 14:24 |
| CosmoHill | I think they should use netbooks with sim card slots | 14:24 |
| lcuk | we all have dongles | 14:24 |
| CosmoHill | I wouldn't mind a GPS and 3G combo PCI-E card | 14:26 |
| CosmoHill | *mini PCI-E | 14:26 |
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| lcuk | CosmoHill, direct neural link | 14:39 |
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| bambule | hi | 15:01 |
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| lcuk | he bambule | 15:03 |
| bambule | i am wondering in howfar scratchbox is still relevant for meego. is it correct that it was used for cross compilation in maemo but in meego its out | 15:03 |
| bambule | ? | 15:03 |
| bambule | is this correct? | 15:03 |
| lcuk | bambule, the sdk for meego handset is essentially a virtual machine | 15:06 |
| lcuk | http://wiki.meego.com/Getting_started_with_the_MeeGo_SDK_for_Linux | 15:07 |
| bambule | lcuk: if i run "mad make" where is the compiler executeD? | 15:07 |
| lcuk | i found the xephyr biuld to be simplest | 15:07 |
| bambule | in the qemu or on the host | 15:07 |
| bambule | ? | 15:07 |
| thiago_home | host | 15:07 |
| thiago_home | but there's no madde yet | 15:07 |
| bambule | thiago | 15:07 |
| bambule | upps | 15:07 |
| bambule | thiago_home: that was also my impression. so how is the sdk then a VM? | 15:08 |
| thiago_home | 14:06 < lcuk> bambule, the sdk for meego handset is essentially a virtual machine | 15:08 |
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| bambule | lcuk: the xephyr is a non go for me. i don't have an intel chipset | 15:08 |
| thiago_home | that was only 2 minutes ago | 15:08 |
| bambule | thiago_home: yes, i remember :-) | 15:09 |
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| bambule | thiago_home: but apperently i didn't grok it | 15:09 |
| * lcuk merely found the instructions and performance for xepyhr to be simplest and worked well enough to be usable | 15:09 | |
| thiago_home | when there's a madde, it will be a simple cross-compilation | 15:10 |
| thiago_home | only for projects and apps that cross-compile properly | 15:10 |
| lcuk | madde is only for qt tho | 15:10 |
| lcuk | ? | 15:10 |
| bambule | lcuk: really? i thought MADDE to be a general tool | 15:10 |
| bambule | also its not ready for use yet? | 15:11 |
| bambule | might explain the problems i had with it :-) | 15:11 |
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| * lcuk thought the meego sdk to be the general one, madde was geared as qt specific? i know people hack and try building other stuff in it and if it works and that is the direction then cool | 15:11 | |
| lcuk | venemo is one such hacker who tried throwing everything at madde | 15:11 |
| thiago_home | the MeeGo Qt SDK will be Qt specific | 15:12 |
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| thiago_home | and a bit more, but not much more | 15:13 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Afaik, madde assumes that you are using qmake | 15:13 |
| lcuk | thiago_home, will it allow libmeegotouch self building? | 15:13 |
| bambule | thiago_home: the cross compiler lives somewhere inside the SDK but if the application that gets cross compiled isn't made for cross compilation the host will leak into the build | 15:13 |
| RST38h | lcuk: And qmake writes out absolute paths to madde executables etc | 15:13 |
| thiago_home | lcuk: I don't know nor really care... | 15:13 |
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| bambule | thiago_home: so something that scratchbox prevents | 15:13 |
| thiago_home | lcuk: what matters is applications | 15:14 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Once you figure out where everything is and write down the paths, madde works as a cross compiler | 15:14 |
| RST38h | Your makefiles become unportable though | 15:14 |
| thiago_home | bambule: don't care about those either | 15:14 |
| lcuk | RST38h, sure | 15:14 |
| thiago_home | if the application is made for cross-compilation and cross-compiles fine, MADDE will be enough | 15:14 |
| thiago_home | otherwise, use the VM environment | 15:14 |
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| bambule | thiago_home: ah now it get it. another way to compile is to log into the QEMU image and use the compiler installed there | 15:15 |
| bambule | this effectively prevents the host from leaking into the target | 15:16 |
| RST38h | lcuk: The main question though is how to compile non-qt apps with madde | 15:16 |
| RST38h | I.e. if my app uses a package that is notincluded into madde, what do I do? | 15:17 |
| lcuk | yup RST38h, that was something venemo was looking at | 15:17 |
| RST38h | I would guess a tool that takes a .deb file looks at contents and copies them into appropriate madde dirs (include, lib) | 15:18 |
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| RST38h | Prolly ignoring the rest of the deb | 15:19 |
| lcuk | ahem | 15:19 |
| lcuk | s/deb/rpm/ | 15:19 |
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| lcuk | s/deb/package | 15:19 |
| lcuk | even | 15:19 |
| RST38h | yea | 15:19 |
| RST38h | But I guess it does not make prinicipaldifference | 15:20 |
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| lukus | hi | 15:23 |
| lukus | i was wondering what kind of benefits meego has over ubuntu on a netbook? | 15:23 |
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| niala | space on hard disk | 15:25 |
| niala | ui | 15:26 |
| psycho_oreos | differing package managers | 15:26 |
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| niala | not a gas plant like ubuntu :) | 15:26 |
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| * lcuk cant wait for the meego character gen app to be available in install image | 15:27 | |
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| * CosmoHill wonders if he can use his nokia as a GPS device for this laptop | 15:28 | |
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| lukus | niala, that's a bit mean ;) | 15:28 |
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| lcuk | pimp my meego | 15:29 |
| psycho_oreos | well you did ask a question in a distro specific channel | 15:29 |
| lukus | will meego limit what I can do in any way? | 15:29 |
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| lcuk | would it be feasible to make a lemmingeqs game using proper meego characters :D | 15:29 |
| lukus | psycho_oreos, yeah, true | 15:30 |
| niala | and what is diff between fedora, opensuse, ubuntu, mandrake, linpus, debian, gentoo, lfs, slackware, lukus ? | 15:30 |
| CosmoHill | (LFS is technically a book, not a distro) | 15:31 |
| psycho_oreos | a cookbook rather :) | 15:31 |
| niala | Linux From Scratch CosmoHill :) | 15:31 |
| CosmoHill | niala: I know, I'm one of the devs :) | 15:31 |
| CosmoHill | well CLFS dev | 15:31 |
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| niala | clfs ? | 15:32 |
| CosmoHill | Cross LFS | 15:32 |
| lcuk | Angry LFS | 15:32 |
| CosmoHill | there is an ALFS | 15:33 |
| lcuk | o_O | 15:33 |
| * lcuk was joking | 15:33 | |
| CosmoHill | I don't recommend it to newbies | 15:33 |
| niala | ah i know Alf the E.T | 15:33 |
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| * niala remember his firts distro was red hat 4 :) | 15:34 | |
| CosmoHill | mine was kubuntu | 15:34 |
| * lcuk first distro was maemo | 15:34 | |
| psycho_oreos | << rh8 | 15:34 |
| lcuk | real day to day use | 15:34 |
| * lcuk had many boot cds for various things | 15:35 | |
| CosmoHill | I did mandrava before that but was so confused | 15:35 |
| niala | yes very disappointing mandriva | 15:36 |
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| * RST38h tried many Linux distros but the first that actually worked was Ubuntu | 15:37 | |
| niala | and Bsd** series | 15:38 |
| CosmoHill | Solaris and FreeBSD have confused me | 15:38 |
| psycho_oreos | rh8 had issues with rpm crashing and forcing one to rebuild rpmdb.. what joy.. then there was fun messing with isapnp for getting sound blaster awe32 to work under linux | 15:38 |
| niala | freebsd have the best logo :) | 15:39 |
| RST38h | FreeBSD worked beautifully years before Linux | 15:39 |
| niala | bsd have created ip protocols | 15:39 |
| * sivang wonders about his new meegon | 15:39 | |
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| sivang | where's texrat the last couple of days? | 15:40 |
| leinir | Possibly busy :) | 15:40 |
| lcuk | on call weekend | 15:40 |
| sivang | lcuk: heyhey | 15:40 |
| sivang | actually, hehey to leinir as well | 15:40 |
| sivang | :) | 15:40 |
| leinir | Heya :) | 15:41 |
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| sivang | leinir: should pack the docs with me soon to not forget them :) | 15:41 |
| leinir | Thanks :) | 15:41 |
| sivang | leinir: has the dot article went out already? | 15:41 |
| leinir | No, i'm working on it right now | 15:41 |
| leinir | It was... yeah, needs some work ;) | 15:41 |
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| * sivang is writing a post about syncevolution-akonadi and possible qt gui; results from OVI sprint. | 15:41 | |
| leinir | Very blog-entry-like, very much not an article :) | 15:42 |
| leinir | s/OVI/Ovi/ | 15:42 |
| sivang | leinir: well, I reckon it is best fitted that way | 15:42 |
| sivang | leinir: right, Ovi, since it is 'door' in finnish | 15:42 |
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| leinir | Well, the Dot is a news outlet - blog articles are for the planet :) | 15:42 |
| sivang | leinir: ah, I see. already read one blog post about it from you, with the photos and stuff | 15:43 |
| leinir | *nods* Exactly my point :) | 15:43 |
| sivang | leinir: I had some important notes to discuss before ironing the doc, I hope you got to those? I'm in concern we still don't get the full status on things, with random ML threads about maps/ syncevo work in meego etc. | 15:44 |
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| sivang | leinir: I tried to note it on the document, and kriztof added some as well | 15:44 |
| leinir | There's two things in there - the dot article is separate for that, yeah :) | 15:44 |
| markey | heya leinir | 15:45 |
| sivang | ah, I was referring tot he dot article yes | 15:45 |
| markey | leinir: I heard that we are making progress with the dot article? :) | 15:45 |
| markey | that would be great | 15:46 |
| markey | it's basically finished | 15:46 |
| sivang | leinir: this was spotted by me a few days ago; http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.handhelds.meego.devel/6633 | 15:47 |
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| leinir | sivang: Hmm... | 15:48 |
| sivang | leinir: and that one, for maps: http://www.mail-archive.com/meego-dev@meego.com/msg06281.html | 15:50 |
| sivang | I was too busy to seriously look into how this falls in our document and if any, affects the request we'd be communicating to Ovi. | 15:50 |
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| lukus | I don't understand what the goal of meego is | 15:51 |
| lukus | will meego be a competitor to android? | 15:51 |
| leinir | Hmm... i'm thinking it probable that the only real impact is that we need to explain that when we say "API" in the document, what we actually mean is "REST API" ;) | 15:51 |
| thiago_home | lukus: yes | 15:51 |
| thiago_home | lukus: not will. is | 15:52 |
| lukus | thiago_home, ok .. I suppose it's also a competitor to chrome os then too? | 15:52 |
| sivang | leinir: ah, I see, so instead of a qt dbus wrapper we need a rest api for both? (maps/ovi sync) | 15:52 |
| lukus | one OS for both markets segments | 15:52 |
| thiago_home | lukus: what does chrome os do? | 15:52 |
| leinir | sivang: *nods* Yeah :) | 15:52 |
| lukus | chrome os is a low footprint os for netbooks and small devices | 15:53 |
| lukus | probably tablets i imagine | 15:53 |
| leinir | lukus: and cars ;) | 15:53 |
| lukus | built to integrate with the fabled cloud | 15:53 |
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| thiago_home | lukus: can you run anything besides the browser? | 15:53 |
| lukus | I'm not sure thiago_home | 15:53 |
| thiago_home | meego is a Linux distro, so it can run anything | 15:54 |
| lukus | most apps are designed to be browser orientated - but I'm sure there will be some traction away from that eventually | 15:54 |
| lukus | k | 15:54 |
| thiago_home | and it runs on not just netbooks and handhelds | 15:54 |
| thiago_home | there's the automotive, connected TVs and STBs, tablets | 15:54 |
| lukus | will meego have an app store? | 15:55 |
| thiago_home | more than one | 15:55 |
| leinir | ovi store, appup (from intel), and the meego garage (community thing) | 15:56 |
| leinir | most likely more than that as well - it's known that at least Orange want their own | 15:57 |
| lcuk | meego mall | 15:58 |
| leinir | lcuk: aaaah laik it ;) | 15:59 |
| * lcuk has said for a long time that an app store app would be needed :) | 15:59 | |
| lcuk | app store store rather :P | 15:59 |
| leinir | *giggles* Yup! Well, as long as they speak OCS, there basically is one already ;) | 15:59 |
| * lcuk carries on reading about planes | 16:00 | |
| sivang | leinir: the KDE store? :) | 16:00 |
| sivang | lcuk: planes? | 16:00 |
| leinir | sivang: no, there's a meego app which speaks OCS :) | 16:01 |
| sivang | leinir: so I re-read the Knut document part, it seems well and apparently with collaborated work all points are there, I'll just add that we porbably want an REST api. | 16:01 |
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| sivang | leinir: which one? | 16:01 |
| leinir | i can't remember the name - i'm not sure it's released as such, but it's there... frank was talking about it in his Bretzn presentation :) | 16:01 |
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| sivang | leinir: Bretzn? | 16:01 |
| leinir | *nods* what i do for work ;) | 16:02 |
| lcuk | sivang, just having a read around wikipedia at the NASA x series experimental craft which pushed the boundaries :) | 16:02 |
| lukus | why will people choose to buy apps when the platform is open? | 16:02 |
| leinir | end-to-end-and-back solution for building and distributing applications :) | 16:02 |
| * lcuk likes fast things | 16:02 | |
| lcuk | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-15 | 16:02 |
| lcuk | lukus, i can fix my own car | 16:03 |
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| lcuk | i can use a lathe to make new components | 16:03 |
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| lcuk | but you know what - its just easier to get someone else to | 16:03 |
| leinir | lukus: When we say "store", it's a little more involved than "buy stuff", really... :) it includes free stuff, donation systems and so on ;) | 16:03 |
| lukus | okay | 16:03 |
| leinir | and yes, of course, what lcuk said :) | 16:03 |
| lukus | i'm just interested though - because the iOS store / android are used for selling IP | 16:04 |
| lcuk | i thought ip addresses were free? | 16:04 |
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| lukus | I'm not sure how the same model can work if an OS is truly open | 16:04 |
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| lukus | lcuk, I understand you can make / build your own software - but that's not a fair analogy | 16:04 |
| lcuk | why isnt it? car analogies are used everywhere | 16:05 |
| lukus | the option isn't make or buy -> it's install for free or buy | 16:05 |
| sivang | lcuk: you plan on taking it to come to Dublin? :) | 16:06 |
| lcuk | sivang, well i have to find a way to get there, i have missed window for work related flights | 16:06 |
| lukus | I think the reason android / iOS attract so much commercial attention, is the fact that they operate closed app-ecosystems | 16:06 |
| lcuk | and my helicopter is a bit small | 16:06 |
| lcuk | lukus, freedom to choose. some people like to create art for all (graffiti), others like to hang them in a gallery and sell them | 16:08 |
| lcuk | a truly free system will allow everybody the room for expression | 16:09 |
| lukus | I agree with you .. but there's a problem, in - how do we create conditions that encourage people to pay for software | 16:09 |
| lukus | personally, I think software should be sold as a service | 16:09 |
| lukus | (.. in the cases when the software author wants to sell for a price) | 16:10 |
| lcuk | those conditions already exist, as stated multiple app stores are being setup and people have already shown willingness to pay for software - thats not a problem | 16:10 |
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| lukus | people only pay for software when the alternative options are far worse, imo | 16:10 |
| lcuk | i remember the person selling crumpled balls of paper as art | 16:10 |
| lcuk | and making a healthy living from it when i saw | 16:11 |
| lukus | that's possible - because art is a scarce resource .. | 16:11 |
| RST38h | Actually, people will sitll use worseoptions rather than paying | 16:11 |
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| lukus | RST38h, true .. but I think there's a limit | 16:11 |
| RST38h | lcuk: must have been one hell ofa salesman :) | 16:11 |
| lcuk | RST38h, make it simple and its less of an issue. | 16:11 |
| lukus | a personal line, when people decide it's easier to pay | 16:11 |
| RST38h | lukus: there isn't:) | 16:11 |
| * lcuk personally sees piracy as free advertising since word of mouth is one of the strongest forms of advertising | 16:12 | |
| lukus | RST38h, your line might be close to the point of 'no limit' | 16:12 |
| RST38h | lukus: true | 16:12 |
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| lcuk | so put those apps on the tips of peoples tongues in an environent where they can pay easily and sales come in | 16:12 |
| lukus | if software is sold as a service, I think a lot of problems are solved | 16:13 |
| lcuk | then make your software like that | 16:13 |
| lukus | a decent micropayment system will change a lot of things I think | 16:13 |
| lcuk | other people want software as a boxed product on their shelf | 16:13 |
| lcuk | with a real manual and stuff | 16:13 |
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| lcuk | teenagers want posters on their walls from favorite things | 16:14 |
| * CosmoHill hides his posters | 16:14 | |
| lukus | lcuk, facebook walls? ;) | 16:14 |
| lcuk | haha | 16:14 |
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| CosmoHill | actually I have comics, signed touring car posters and a pitcure of bobby :) | 16:14 |
| lcuk | bobby from home and away? | 16:15 |
| * lcuk grins | 16:15 | |
| lukus | didn't she die? | 16:15 |
| lukus | and come back a s ghost? | 16:15 |
| lcuk | idk | 16:15 |
| CosmoHill | no, he's a 5 year old Lancashire heeler dog | 16:15 |
| CosmoHill | I also have a Fedora 6 DVD stuck up there and my lecturer's marking scheme | 16:15 |
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| lukus | well - ive downloaded meego | 16:16 |
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| lcuk | i once hung about 100 cans from ceiling as some sort of art | 16:16 |
| lukus | going to put it on a usb stick | 16:16 |
| lcuk | the holes are still in my old bedroom ceiling | 16:17 |
| CosmoHill | I have some pictures stuck on the ceiling over where my bed used to be | 16:18 |
| CosmoHill | it's got 2002 written on it | 16:19 |
| lcuk | heh | 16:19 |
| * lcuk just has a pinboard nowadays | 16:19 | |
| CosmoHill | the last time I took a poster down was when we repainted it | 16:20 |
| * lcuk will virtualise it soon :) | 16:20 | |
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| lcuk | luke had a poster over a hole in his wall. | 16:21 |
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| lcuk | fixed the hole, then got grief cos his poster got crumpled in the process | 16:21 |
| lcuk | (customised stig one) | 16:21 |
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| * lcuk back to reading, bbl | 16:23 | |
| CosmoHill | hehe | 16:23 |
| CosmoHill | my bed was infront of the cupboard so one day when I was at school, mum removed my cupboard doors and put a curtain up | 16:23 |
| CosmoHill | now if I close the curtain I look like a normal guy instead of some nut with a load of computers in the cupboard | 16:25 |
| lcuk | are the curtains frilly? | 16:26 |
| lcuk | if so, your normal guy persona is a bit off :P | 16:26 |
| CosmoHill | nope | 16:26 |
| CosmoHill | the remotes work through it tho which is good cos that's where all my AV gear is | 16:26 |
| lcuk | cool | 16:27 |
| CosmoHill | on a side note, you can silence a sky+ box by removing the hard drive and fan | 16:31 |
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| CosmoHill | omg there's a littlewoods advert that uses music from Nightmare on christmas | 16:37 |
| CosmoHill | s/on/before/ | 16:37 |
| infobot | CosmoHill meant: omg there's a littlewoods advert that uses music from Nightmare before christmas | 16:37 |
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| leinir | *nods* Yeah, i saw that earlier... it's... somewhat weird/scary/cool... not quite sure, lots of things ;) | 16:38 |
| lukus | can settings be confligured in meego? | 16:39 |
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| leinir | lukus: it kind of depends on what you mean... but yes, in general... :) | 16:41 |
| lukus | leinir, at the moment everything seems quite big | 16:43 |
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| lukus | i do like its simplicity tho | 16:47 |
| lukus | could be nice to be able to link a google account | 16:49 |
| lukus | for calendar and mail | 16:49 |
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| leinir | My guess is it'd be more likely that you would be able to link it with an Ovi account for those purposes... but yeah, a generic system for such details would be kinda nice :) | 16:52 |
| lukus | yeah, twitter can be added globally .. | 16:52 |
| lukus | shame google can't be added in the same way | 16:53 |
| lukus | interface is quite snappy | 16:53 |
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| lukus | i wish everything wasn't so large though | 16:55 |
| lukus | seems like a waste | 16:55 |
| CosmoHill | I read that as "everybody" | 16:55 |
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| lukus | heh | 16:56 |
| lukus | the huge title bar seems pointless .. especially when it's only really used for 'X' | 16:56 |
| lukus | .. and going back a step | 16:56 |
| CosmoHill | hmm, the VTech Mobigo looks like the Nokia N900 for the under 5s | 16:57 |
| lukus | it does suffer from the fisher price effect | 16:57 |
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| lukus | can i switch between running applications? | 17:13 |
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| leinir | Nope, you can only start them *nods* | 17:14 |
| lukus | hmmmm | 17:15 |
| lukus | that's a mistake | 17:16 |
| lukus | i hope the team change it | 17:16 |
| leinir | Alright, i should probably point out that that was sarcasm - i know it does not translate into text very well :) | 17:17 |
| lukus | ah .. | 17:17 |
| lukus | ok | 17:17 |
| leinir | Yes, of course you can switch between running applications :P Don't ask me how, i never used the netbook UX, but yes, of course you can | 17:17 |
| lukus | i honestly thought you were telling it straight .. alt-tab isn't doing anything | 17:17 |
| leinir | look through the various bits of the UI, there's going to be somewhere that'll list running applications and give you the choice to switch to them | 17:18 |
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| lukus | I might start using meego fulltime on my netbook | 17:23 |
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| lukus | leinir, what do you use meego on? | 17:30 |
| leinir | i don't at the moment :) | 17:31 |
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| leinir | i don't have any spare devices that it fits on which i can afford to have suddenly not working :) | 17:31 |
| leinir | (n900 is my main comms device, laptop is my main workstation...) | 17:31 |
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| bueillusion | hi guys. I already have an existing gentoo installation, and i'm not really interested in setting up another partition just so I can do meego development. I'd like to compile the meego environment on my system if possible. looking at http://meego.gitorious.org/ i can definitely see i need the qemu package, but im not sure what else i need to get an environment up and running | 18:11 |
| Bostik | bueillusion: the easiest way is to install the netbook version inside a VM (virtualbox works nicely), and develop there; you'll do the coding on x86 and test building on x86 too and while you're at it, you can spend time on getting the qemu systems up and running for you | 18:16 |
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| bueillusion | Bostik, that sounds like a good idea, i think I will try that. | 18:18 |
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| sergiusens | since your bringing up developing in the VM, has anyone solved the issue with the qtcreator and gdb issue? | 18:28 |
| Bostik | you might want to stick around for a day or two and pay attention to any discussion about "community obs" as that will be used to provide the native build environment for volunteer developers | 18:28 |
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| Qantourisc | on top of grain and maize you also have wheat .... | 18:51 |
| Qantourisc | *ghee | 18:51 |
| Qantourisc | gzee | 18:51 |
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| gass | with virtualbox in windows, my system after installed and configured shows only the background | 19:14 |
| gass | or ... "a" blue background | 19:14 |
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| gass | but it seems to work, because i press acpi shutdown and it shuts down | 19:14 |
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| bueillusion | gass, i just experiences the same problem | 19:18 |
| bueillusion | not sure what's going on | 19:18 |
| bueillusion | except im running linux | 19:18 |
| gass | Bostik, any advice? | 19:19 |
| gass | i think i have all enable ... but it seems something is missing, maybe the window manager | 19:19 |
| Bostik | ah, it's the blasted "quiet" + X failing for any reason | 19:20 |
| gass | LOL | 19:20 |
| gass | Bostik, how can we make it come alive again? | 19:20 |
| Bostik | just pounce on tab as the vm boots, then 'e' to edit the boot commandline and remove the 'quiet' part | 19:20 |
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| Bostik | may take a few tries | 19:20 |
| Bostik | that way at least you get a terminal version up | 19:21 |
| gass | LOL | 19:22 |
| gass | at least instead of a background ... i get "black" | 19:22 |
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| gass | Bostik, vga=current? | 19:23 |
| wyrwiszmat | hi, I'm begginer in programming and i wand make a piece of app for meego OS (handset version). I'm know C and C++ language. what SDK you propose (btw. i don't know Qt framework) | 19:23 |
| _MeeGoBot_ | c++ sucks | 19:23 |
| wyrwiszmat | *want | 19:23 |
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| wyrwiszmat | what should i choose, Nokia Qt SDK or MeeGo SDK? | 19:28 |
| Bostik | gass: if that's the default parameter, then yes; the only thing you need to snuff out is the hideous "quiet" option | 19:28 |
| Bostik | (and whoever thought that 0s boot delay was a good decision deserves to be flogged) | 19:29 |
| gass | Bostik, it still freezes | 19:29 |
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| Bostik | blegh | 19:29 |
| Bostik | I'll give the it a spin in a few minutes, just to see for myself | 19:30 |
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| bueillusion | gass, http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_1.0_Netbook_VirtualBox | 19:36 |
| bueillusion | follow those instructions. it worked for me | 19:36 |
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| lcuk | dm8tbr, i don't think having your _Meegobot_ spewing lines about c++ sucks is very wise. and unless you have official permission to actually call your bot a meegobot may also be frowned upon (unless you have permission) | 19:40 |
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| lcuk | wyrwiszmat, the nokia qt sdk is specifically for qt app development, its just being updated to include meego as a target (afaik, might already be there) | 19:42 |
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| gass | bueillusion, libglx then | 19:42 |
| bueillusion | gass, yep, that was the problem for me | 19:43 |
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| wyrwiszmat | lcuk: thx, so i use MeeGo SDK, whether will be problems with QEmu if i have machine with AMD64 architecture (and Ubuntu 10.10 Linux) | 19:48 |
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| marnanel | mthemedaemon is crashing for me with: "mthemedaemon: symbol lookup error: mthemedaemon: undefined symbol: _ZN13QElapsedTimer10invalidateEv". My packages seem to be up to date. I thought that symbol was defined in qt-wayland, but that seems to be up to date as well. Any clue as to what I might be doing wrong? | 19:51 |
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| gass | thanks bueillusion | 19:51 |
| gass | bueillusion, maybe you should change the meego version displayed there | 19:52 |
| Bostik | ah, that was it - the black screen even in non-quiet boot is the blank vt2, so you need to press ctrl-f1 to get the one working console | 19:54 |
| Bostik | and then kill off the respawning X process | 19:54 |
| gass | bueillusion, for me chmod +s /usr/bin/Xorg worked | 19:56 |
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| Bostik | "sudo telinit 2" was probably a working spell, even if it's probably not the most correct one | 19:57 |
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| gass | Bostik, only chmod +s /usr/bin/Xorg worked | 20:05 |
| gass | thanks Bostik bueillusion | 20:05 |
| gass | humm ... no office applications in meego | 20:05 |
| lcuk | gass meego netbook has capability to install oo.org i believe | 20:07 |
| lcuk | not sure which repo to use, i know some of the admins have had it running before now | 20:07 |
| gass | lcuk, abiword, it seems | 20:08 |
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| Bostik | personally (and yes, professionally too) I'd like to see qt-mobility 1.1-b2 packaged for meego more than any office suite at this point in time; partly because I've spent the better part of two weeks trying to get it done myself and, of course, failing in not-quite-spectacular but certainly annoying ways | 20:09 |
| lcuk | hm Bostik | 20:09 |
| gass | lol | 20:11 |
| gass | humm ... meego netbook is a full gtk set | 20:11 |
| gass | as i can see | 20:11 |
| gass | (and glad to see it) | 20:11 |
| Bostik | lcuk: 1.0.2 package contains .spec file that is supposedly updated to 1.1.0 but there is something quite wrong with either the .spec or the tree; .pc files are not generated and when I modify the .pro files to get them done, their installation paths are for some reason overwritten to ${_libdir}, not pkg_config_path | 20:11 |
| Bostik | not quite spectacular, just incredibly annoying | 20:12 |
| lcuk | Bostik, do you know if anyone has filed an official bug/offered patch for this situation? | 20:12 |
| Bostik | lcuk: once I get it built, *I* will offer a patch myself | 20:12 |
| lcuk | sounds like the sorts of niggles people appear to have in numerous places | 20:13 |
| lcuk | :) then *I* will thank you now | 20:13 |
| Bostik | trust me on this one | 20:13 |
| Bostik | the biggest itchy-scratch with the mobility build is that all kinds of stuff that should be unix/linux "platformed" are bound to maemo5|maemo6 specific blocks; and if you have a Qt installation that has those targets, enabling the switch automatically modifies a LOT of paths you don't want or even know about | 20:15 |
| Bostik | ...got the scars | 20:15 |
| * lcuk makes note that bostik is da man and will help with qt-mobility :D | 20:15 | |
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| lcuk | >> food | 20:16 |
| Bostik | lcuk: just so you know, I'm actually getting paid for it because our project absolutely needs qt-mobility 1.1 (tp+) and in about two or three weeks it's going to be a blocker issue... | 20:17 |
| * Bostik is a mere integrator who wants to avoid getting dumped a metric buttload of manure on top of him | 20:18 | |
| CosmoHill | oo, aparantly the day after my birthday we should get fibre optic broadband in the exchange :) | 20:18 |
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| madde55 | hi, beginners question, can I use meego-handset-ia32-qemu-1.1.20101031.2201-sda.raw i.e. QEMU image with Xephyr? Where can I get the non-QEMU image if needed? | 20:29 |
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| gass | madde55, meego downloads? | 20:33 |
| gass | http://meego.com/downloads/releases/1.1/meego-v1.1-handset | 20:34 |
| gass | ? | 20:34 |
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| madde55 | gass: thanks, I was setupping Xephyr scripts in the meanwhile.. have to check into those images | 21:27 |
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| dm8tbr | lcuk: oh, I thought that module was off. I only got it here to do bugzilla lookups. | 21:39 |
| Stskeeps | heh, standard supybot? ;p | 21:41 |
| Stskeeps | and the bugzilla lookups are useful | 21:41 |
| dm8tbr | lcuk: who should I talk to about the bot's nickname. I offered Stskeeps to get an bugzilla bot here and he agreed that it could be useful | 21:41 |
| gass | c++ | 21:41 |
| gass | ups, sorry | 21:41 |
| dm8tbr | I'm going to check which module that is and unload/blacklist it | 21:41 |
| dm8tbr | Stskeeps: it's a mozbot | 21:42 |
| Stskeeps | ah | 21:43 |
| Stskeeps | dm8tbr: generally it's me and DawnFoster running the irc stuff, i think it's fine, since it performs a service function for the meego project | 21:43 |
| Stskeeps | feel free to check with dawn as well | 21:43 |
| dm8tbr | ok | 21:43 |
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| lcuk | bug 100 | 21:45 |
| _MeeGoBot_ | Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=100 nor, Medium, ---, qiang.z.zhang, RESO WORKSFORME, Software update will cause zone switching | 21:45 |
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| lcuk | c++ | 21:45 |
| dm8tbr | if you notice other things the bot does it shouldn't please let me know. There may be other functions that I didn't notice | 21:45 |
| lcuk | no probs dm8tbr just with it insulting c++ ;) | 21:46 |
| dm8tbr | actually I don't know why it does the C++ thing | 21:46 |
| dm8tbr | sure, esp in the Qt context... | 21:46 |
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| gass | lcuk, insulting c++ was cute ... in a chat room for c++ apps | 21:47 |
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| * javispedro envisions a future where irc bots' first step to enslave mankind is start insulting c++ on a qt channel | 21:49 | |
| gass | lol | 21:50 |
| lcuk | javispedro, nahh | 21:50 |
| lcuk | the initial problem was inventing c++ in the first place ;) now its here we have to make the most | 21:51 |
| javispedro | poor c++ | 21:53 |
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| dm8tbr | found the c++ thing. let's get rid of those | 22:02 |
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| madde55 | damn.. I'm stuck with the ubuntu 10.10 64bit and QEMU problems, I guess there is no other way around than downgrading to 10.4. sad | 22:13 |
| madde55 | rebooting.. | 22:13 |
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| Alison_Chaiken | Has anyone installed #meego on #n8? I see that the topic has come up on this channel before, but so far no one has answered "yes"! | 22:22 |
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| Stskeeps | Alison_Chaiken: that'll be a no - it's also probably difficult due to there being no public broadcom gfx drivers as well as bootloader being signed.. as well as us not having an armv5/armv6 port atm | 22:23 |
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| thiago_home | Alison_Chaiken: # here is for channel names only | 22:23 |
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| thiago_home | Alison_Chaiken: and the N8 is not a supported device, nor do people have access to flashing tools for it | 22:23 |
| Stskeeps | thiago_home: re hardfp, do you happen to have an exact set of gcc optimization flags you'd like to have? | 22:24 |
| thiago_home | -mfpu=neon -march=armv7-a -mfloat-abi=hard | 22:25 |
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| thiago_home | but I'll settle for -mfpu=vfpv3 -march=armv7-a -mfloat-abi=hard | 22:25 |
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| Stskeeps | (i actually have a working set of meego hardfp glibc, gcc, binutils atm - working to finish up the rest of the bootstrap packages) | 22:26 |
| Stskeeps | so hopefully we can get a proper port on the road soon :P | 22:27 |
| Alison_Chaiken | Thanks thiago_home and Stskeeps. | 22:27 |
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| CosmoHill | nice shooting guys | 22:28 |
| Stskeeps | well, that's the honest answer :P it is probably technically possible, but you'd have to be a nokian to pull it off | 22:28 |
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| thiago_home | Stskeeps: the runfast option requires a runtime flag being set | 22:29 |
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| Stskeeps | well, question is where to place it, qt or glibc? :P | 22:30 |
| thiago_home | glibc or kernel | 22:31 |
| thiago_home | but this requires more investigation, since runfast turns off IEEE compatibility | 22:31 |
| thiago_home | IEEE754 | 22:31 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 22:31 |
| Stskeeps | once we're at -mfloat-abi=hard it's flexible to experiment i guess | 22:31 |
| smithna | Query: is it useful to report bugs (IVI image) on applications called "sample"? | 22:31 |
| thiago_home | also note that there's vfpv3 and vfpv3-d16 | 22:31 |
| thiago_home | do we support D16 devices? | 22:32 |
| thiago_home | smithna: yes | 22:32 |
| thiago_home | smithna: the sample apps are supposed to be fully-functional | 22:32 |
| Stskeeps | well, is there anything but d16 armv7 devices? | 22:32 |
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| smithna | thiago_home: ok, thanks | 22:32 |
| thiago_home | Stskeeps: the d32 ones, like N900 | 22:32 |
| Stskeeps | well, i suppose it does d16 too | 22:33 |
| Stskeeps | vfpv3 implies -d32? | 22:33 |
| thiago_home | they do d16. But -mfpu=vfpv3 would use d17, d18, ... | 22:33 |
| thiago_home | from the name, I guess so | 22:33 |
| Stskeeps | well, current mfpu is vfpv3 in armv7 port in general | 22:33 |
| Stskeeps | ok, so, seems like we don't even support nvidia and marvell in meego atm | 22:35 |
| Stskeeps | they have vfpv3 d16 | 22:35 |
| * thiago_home talked to NVidia on Friday | 22:35 | |
| Stskeeps | (tegra2, marvell dove) | 22:35 |
| thiago_home | told them to get their act straight and get Neon | 22:35 |
| Stskeeps | so in theory we might as well go to -mfpu=neon without harming anyone | 22:35 |
| javispedro | but, does -mfpu=neon do doubles in soft? | 22:36 |
| thiago_home | javispedro: Qt uses float almost everywhere | 22:36 |
| thiago_home | and performance of floats in Neon is much better | 22:36 |
| javispedro | qreal being qfloat, I know :) | 22:36 |
| javispedro | still... | 22:36 |
| thiago_home | floats on the VFP are good, provided we have runfast on | 22:36 |
| Stskeeps | javispedro: we're also porting to mfloat-abi=hard atm | 22:36 |
| thiago_home | if it's off, the performance is horrible on Cortex-A8 (worse than ARM11) | 22:37 |
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| javispedro | still better than soft | 22:37 |
| thiago_home | yeah, no doubt | 22:37 |
| javispedro | so that's the question, will gcc emit softfp for doubles when fpu=neon? | 22:38 |
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| javispedro | or will it emit... vfp3? (doesn't sound like it) | 22:38 |
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| thiago_home | softfp uses the VFP hardware | 22:40 |
| * thiago_home did some quick checking and didn't see much of a difference between -mfpu=neon and -mfpu=vfpv3 | 22:40 | |
| javispedro | heh. | 22:41 |
| thiago_home | it uses only in a couple of special cases | 22:41 |
| thiago_home | like loading a 0 or 1 | 22:41 |
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| javispedro | so it would use the vfp. | 22:41 |
| thiago_home | yes | 22:41 |
| thiago_home | it uses the vfp | 22:41 |
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| javispedro | interesting | 22:42 |
| thiago_home | but it uses d16 and d17 at first, so it definitely wouldn't run on D16 HW | 22:42 |
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| Stskeeps | well, one less argument against not simply enabling mfpu=neon, even for armv7-softfp.. | 22:44 |
| javispedro | maybe use fpu=vfp3 by default, with -ffast-math adding a run_fast_enable() call in each function prologue... | 22:44 |
| javispedro | hehe | 22:44 |
| javispedro | sounds crazy. | 22:44 |
| thiago_home | it does use neon in a couple of places, which is enough to cause crashes if the CPU doesn't have Neon | 22:44 |
| thiago_home | Qt has some unprotected Neon code too | 22:44 |
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| javispedro | Stskeeps: btw, can I pm for an unrelated issue? | 22:45 |
| javispedro | *pm you | 22:45 |
| Stskeeps | yes, go ahead | 22:46 |
| * thiago_home needs to send the confirmations for the lightning talks | 22:46 | |
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| Stskeeps | thiago_home: raised issue that we might as well move to mfpu=neon for softfp | 22:57 |
| Stskeeps | on meego-dev | 22:57 |
| Stskeeps | at least we can get a win there while we await the hardfp work | 22:57 |
| thiago_home | Qt enables Neon on its own for the raster engine | 22:58 |
| thiago_home | the only unprotected code is in string handling and, to be honest, the gain isn't that high | 22:58 |
| javispedro | have you read http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc/ARM-Options.html? (search for neon) | 22:58 |
| javispedro | er.. | 22:58 |
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| javispedro | http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc/ARM-Options.html | 22:58 |
| thiago_home | since I've just verified that -mfpu=neon still generates a lot of VFP instructions on gcc 4.5, I really don't think it will be much of a gain | 22:59 |
| thiago_home | hard-float is a lot more important | 22:59 |
| javispedro | "If the selected floating-point hardware includes the NEON extension (e.g. -mfpu=`neon'), note that floating-point operations will not be used by GCC's auto-vectorization pass unless -funsafe-math-optimizations is also specified." | 22:59 |
| javispedro | there's also neon-d16 | 22:59 |
| javispedro | for tegra 2 I guess? | 23:00 |
| * thiago_home looks at the assembly output and sees that -funsafe-math-optimizations produced worse code | 23:01 | |
| * RST38h somehow doubts the positive performance effects of Neon | 23:01 | |
| thiago_home | f /= 2.5; for example calculated with double | 23:01 |
| RST38h | At least on the CortexA8 | 23:01 |
| thiago_home | if I make it f /= 2.5f; then it works as well as without -funsafe-math-optimizations | 23:01 |
| RST38h | A9 may be a different business | 23:01 |
| javispedro | what's worse is that Neon is technically optional in A9... | 23:02 |
| thiago_home | actually, better. It uses fmacs (multiply-accummulate) | 23:02 |
| thiago_home | javispedro: yeah, but ARM vendors are realising that they should have it | 23:02 |
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| javispedro | hopefully.. | 23:04 |
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| * CosmoHill signs | 23:11 | |
| CosmoHill | s/signs/sighs | 23:11 |
| * Jartza signs and sighs | 23:13 | |
| CosmoHill | third person today has asked me the same question | 23:13 |
| thiago_home | what question? | 23:14 |
| CosmoHill | basically "why won't gcc pass 1 compile" | 23:14 |
| CosmoHill | the answer: because they didn't follow the book | 23:15 |
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| CosmoHill | gcc requires mpc, mpfr and gmp, these have normally been put in the wrong location | 23:17 |
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| niala | funny, chroot an meego-ivi into a meego-netbook and you will have a new panel whos is interact with all app netbook running | 23:54 |
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| tybollt | niala: are you one of those spambots who just slumps random words? | 23:57 |
| niala | maybe a wrong translate | 23:57 |
| niala | CosmoHill: | 23:58 |
| * CosmoHill gives niala a muffin | 23:58 | |
| CosmoHill | tybollt: no, he's french | 23:58 |
| CosmoHill | :) | 23:58 |
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