IRC log of #meego for Saturday, 2010-11-06

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* smithna wonders if he upset someone....00:16
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lcuksmithna, why00:32
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leinirStskeeps: Think you might be lucid to help with that stuff tomorrow? :)00:33
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smithnalcuk: not sure...  I think I'm asking a question (which i have a number of time) which should have some kind of answer.00:38
lcukhrm what question00:38
lcukand i might likely vanish myself in a few minutes00:39
smithnaHi, I'm trying to figure out my install/testing stategy on the IVI version of meego.  As been noted lots of times, there's no *approved* way to upgrade from 1.0 to 1.1 -- Is the same true between development builds (ie: updating packages from the daily repo)00:39
lcukbut i shall return if so :P00:39
* smithna makes sure to ask quickly :}00:39
lcuksmithna, there is some very rough upgrade instructions00:39
lcukhttp://wiki.meego.com/Upgrading_MeeGo_Versions00:39
lcukwhen I asked, it was said that they should be generic00:40
lcuknot sure how in specific UXes00:40
lcukbut you are right anyway, its all dev builds so seat of pants00:40
smithnaSince that is *unsupported* -- one would only report bugs vs a released version, correct?00:41
lcuksmithna, start by reading the instructions, combining it with your knowledge and what you can find, backup essentials, cross fingers, try it.  report back and discuss and see where we can fix it00:41
lcukyou never know - it might work and not need any bug reports at all !00:42
lcuk*shock*00:42
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* smithna not given my luck00:44
lcuksmithna, :)00:44
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ddompehi, is there any procedure to gain an account on the meego OBS? I have setup my own OBS, but I need to bootstrap my OBS and seems a lot easier if I have access to the meego OBS...00:57
Stskeepsleinir: i'm not sure what i'm agreeing to00:57
Stskeepsddompe: http://wiki.meego.com/User:Stskeeps/10_easy_steps_to_a_local_OBS00:57
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ddompeStskeeps: awesome! That page is new00:58
leinirStskeeps: Oh right, sorry - well, i need some information on which repositories are available on build. and build.pub., and which archs are in them :)00:58
ddompeI'm pretty sure I have grepped around00:58
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Stskeepsleinir: both have atom and armv7, afaik, not sure about how up to date01:01
Stskeepsddompe: yeah, it is01:01
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MeeGoExpertsEvening all01:01
Stskeepsddompe: help improve the documentation01:01
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ddompeStskeeps: I will01:02
leinirStskeeps: Right... Those are the architectures, i'm guessing, what repositories are on there? :)01:02
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Stskeepsdepends on what they've imported01:03
Stskeepswhat are you interested in?01:03
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MeeGoExpertsAny news if BroadCom are going to let their WiFi drivers ship with Meego Netbook images ?01:04
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leinirWell, i'm building the server side of project bretzn, which is supposed to push build jobs onto the various build services (in particular obs and the two meego build services), and for that to work, i need to know the names of these - i can find the information myself if i get a username for it, though, if that makes it easier :)01:05
Stskeepsah01:06
Stskeepswell, the naming is up to the obs maintainer .. :P01:06
leiniri expect this is not possible for build.pub. yet, but it'd probably be the easiest for build. :)01:06
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* qgil revamped http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Office/Marketing - improvements welcome01:18
qgilbasically, I put upfront what we have and how to get involved01:18
qgilthe backlog has been merged with the Community Office backlog and the strategy has been put underneath01:19
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* lcuk hopes the fireworks stop soon02:09
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lcuki saw earlier the meego character gen web app is taking shape, but i lost my link, can someone look back and find it02:32
lcukmarnanel posted it02:32
leinirhmm... not in screen backlog, lessee...02:33
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leinirhttp://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=1338&page=602:35
leinirhad to hunt for it a bit :)02:35
* araujo notices lcuk is still around ....02:38
lcukfigment of imagination :P02:38
lcukcalled out to pick up luke and his mates so movies cancelled for tonight02:38
araujo:/02:38
lcukaraujo, what time of the year does your country do fireworks ?02:40
araujolcuk, you know.. today, they are doing ..... same there? o_002:42
lcukaraujo, its been like a warzone all night02:42
lcukthe explosions are getting bigger!02:42
lcukleinir, thanks!02:43
lcukthat looks good, but really goes against meego.com principles :P02:43
leinirYou are most welcome :)02:43
lcukits bloody closed source!02:43
lcukit would be good when it comes to actually have it usable in the netbook image :)02:44
lcukfirst community created actual usable content creating novelty!02:44
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lcukwhy is the new meegocom account listing http://twitter.com/Heaaatherkb as the first person its following?  (it was me until a minute ago)  that account there takes you to a dating site :P02:48
berndhslcuk: because they don't know how attractive you are ?02:49
lcukthats possible!02:50
* lcuk finds more alcohol02:50
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GAN900MeeGo is following me on twitter.03:10
GAN900Creeper03:10
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lcukGAN900, when are you arriving in dublin03:21
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lolloohellooo0oo Meego fans04:26
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lolloois there a way to triple boot OSes on N900? Nitdroid+Meego+maemo?04:27
lolloowith 8gb sd04:27
sjokkiswhy would it be different from double booting?04:30
lcuksjokkis, guessing the instructions are geared around specific partition layouts etc04:31
lcukjust like maemo filesystem itself has things04:31
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GAN900lcuk, Sunday morning around 9 AM.05:31
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hvenusHello, MeeGo.05:39
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IanWizardI'm new to meego, and looking into a project based on it.  Does it support CDMA out of the box?  Is that a stupid question?09:01
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BostikIanWizard: not a stupid question, but isn't CDMA a radio frequency technique?09:12
IanWizardYes, it's what Sprint uses, I'd like to develop (or rather test) this project on my Evo, which uses CDMA.  I wanted to know if MeeGo handset supported CDMA.09:13
IanWizardIf it had the software support for it, since it's more than just a driver.09:13
Bostikthat goes to hardware and drivers, and if history is any guide, the cellular drivers will be binary-only modules09:13
dm8tbrIanWizard: the question is rather, will meego support the modem/phone hardware in particular09:14
dm8tbrwhat Bostik said!09:14
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IanWizardwell, not exactly, because there is the networking layer for CDMA, which is different than GSM, or just TCP/IP.  There's all of the negotiation with the tower.09:15
dm8tbrwhich is never done by the OS09:15
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dm8tbrthat's most likely some blob that runs either directly on that chipset or in your userspace and you know nothing about it09:16
IanWizardit's done by a middleware layer usually, which is part of the software that would be with the OS.  like freesmartphone.org09:16
IanWizardit's not a big deal, it's not like it needs the cellular support immediatly anyway09:17
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dm8tbrIanWizard: the page you linked then shows that all it does is talk AT to the GSM stack09:18
BostikCDMA for radio frequency is on the same level as ethernet is for wired and wlan for wireless09:20
IanWizardyes09:20
IanWizardIt's ok, Thank you for your support guys.09:21
dm8tbrin other words if there is a reasonable way to talk to the 'cdma' stack it is possible09:22
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Bostika quick look at wikipedia actually gave a hint; the generic name "CDMA" is sometimes applied to cmdaOne and CDMA2000 access technologies09:24
Bostik"[...] should not be confused with the mobile phone standards called cdmaOne and CDMA2000 (which are often referred to as simply CDMA), which use CDMA as an underlying channel access method."09:24
Bostiksince the network in question was Sprint, we're probably talking about US -> whether the operator rolls out meego devices is up to them09:25
IanWizardthat's interesting, I thought that cdma2000 was the version of cdma09:26
IanWizardyes, but I was kind of trying to port MeeGo over to it (my Evo)09:26
IanWizardand then I was going to start building on that09:26
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IanWizardwhile I'm here, I'm on a netbook with Nvidia Ion, and no VT.  Is there any way I can emulate properly?09:28
Bostikyou probably could get meego (core) up and running but I somehow doubt that you could get full cellular access yet09:28
IanWizardI don't want to try and get it to run in a VM by forcing it somehow. (though I doubt that I could)09:29
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BostikI'd guess you won't get the qemu systems running on that but you can at least port your software to meego on a virtualbox instance, with the netbook image as your starting point09:34
IanWizardBostik: yeah, I've had netbook running, but I was trying to get handset;  guess there's no big difference anyway, except for UI09:35
Bostikyup09:35
dm8tbrIanWizard: evo. I think that runs android. you'd then have to take the phone RIL and reverse that to create support for that hardware in meego09:41
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IanWizardRIL?09:41
IanWizardyes, it's android09:41
IanWizardAnd 4g, but I'm not even touching that09:42
dm8tbrthere is no 4G hardware09:42
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IanWizard???  you mean in meego?  'cause it is a 4g phone, and I'm pretty sure that it's its own radio09:43
dm8tbrno, there is the marketing term 4G, but there are no devices conforming to fourth generation mobile networks as specified by the ITU09:44
IanWizardumm.... Ok, I'll take your word for that, but it is real (the phone), and it is much faster.09:46
dm8tbryes, go complain to marketing. they mislabeled it09:46
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dm8tbroh you are in the US. just go sue their pants off09:46
dm8tbryes, but it's just HSPA or something like that09:47
dm8tbrwhich is part of the third generation networks family09:47
IanWizardOH,09:48
IanWizardI had no idea,09:48
IanWizardI've been scammed09:48
IanWizard;)09:48
dm8tbryes, gogogo get a lawyer ;)09:48
dm8tbrit's a texbook marketing screwup09:48
IanWizardI don't think I'd win09:48
IanWizardthey probably disclosed it somewhere09:49
IanWizardand said that I couldn't sue them09:49
dm8tbr/. just ran an article09:49
dm8tbrthere might be a chance they'll all get into trouble for false advertizing09:49
IanWizardI just found the article09:50
* IanWizard says as he hits his Chrome to Phone button09:50
IanWizardI cant believe this09:51
IanWizardso all of this network hype was all just a scam09:51
IanWizardI should dig up those papers that I signed09:51
IanWizardmaybe I can get a class action in there09:52
IanWizarddm8tbr: btw, if you're not US, then where are you?09:52
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dm8tbrIanWizard: old europe09:56
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eranidoes there exist any logs for the deb/rpm choosing process when it was still active with meego? I'd like to read those if there are any :I10:12
eranijust my curiosity...10:14
Stskeepsthere's been plenty discussions over time10:20
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eraniStskeeps: yes, I believe that. I just wondered if there's any kind of official statement why rpm was picked over deb. Not that it really matters, but I'm just curious to know :)10:21
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Stskeepserani: if you promise just to say 'ok' and not discuss rpm vs deb or rpm vs apt, i'll explain quickly :)10:35
erani:D ok10:37
Stskeepserani: so, it starts with the merger of moblin and maemo. maemo's base system was debian based and not because of that, it was crap and ancient. moblin had a quite lean and mean base system, based upon rpm. in addition to that, there was a set of tools tailored towards RPM, such as OBS, the image creator, QA tools as well as other things that already existed and was made for rpm. as well as the existence of zypper, which's quite fast ...10:39
Stskeeps... for package retrivial. while many would say that debian has all those, they tend to forget those tools are fairly tied to debian.org infrastructure and when used outside the debian project, they have to be heavily modded.. so it basically was a choice between technological ability10:39
Stskeepspersonal story: i used debian tools for similar purpose as meego targets for over a year in the Mer project, and frankly.. i actually like rpms and the toolset around it better now :)10:40
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Stskeepsso, that's why meego is rpm and not deb10:41
Stskeeps:P10:41
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jarkkomI saw some meego being mentioned as well in news about ubuntu unity/wayland, is that some kind of official plan or just bloggers taking things out of context?10:46
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Stskeepsjarkkom: well, wayland's mostly a intel project i think10:56
Stskeepsi think there's going to be a small unconference session on the topic on conference10:56
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shinta42is N900 considered a good device to use MEEGO?11:05
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eraniStskeeps: thanks! :)11:11
Stskeepsnp11:11
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tolbrinohi there, I'm trying to install MeeGo 1.1 on a asus eeepc, but the installation process crashes with the following error "ISOFS: Unable to identify CD-ROM format." Any hint what I could have done wrong?11:37
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tolbrinoI've written the img file to a usb stick on a mac 10.611:43
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Stskeepslbt: my lone 512mb OBS machine is able to churn 300 ARM packages in a day :)12:02
Stskeepsdown at 150 scheduled packages, starting from 100012:02
lbtX-Fade was working on the i/o12:03
lbtI've not had chance to catch up this week - real work12:03
Stskeeps:nod:12:03
Stskeepsi've been bootstrapping meego hardfp packages so the armv6+vfp run was a alpha test to see how much it can handle12:04
lbtcan/will you use the community one12:04
lbtyour account is up12:04
Stskeepsfor armv6+vfp? possibly12:04
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Stskeepsbut let's see..12:04
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Stskeepswe do need to experiment with some OBS changes and bootstrap somewhere else than build.meego.com (too rigid - we need to keep that one stable)12:07
Stskeepsso it's either internal obs or community obs :P12:07
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shinta42how is the N900 for meego?16:39
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dnearyhi16:49
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RST38hmoo?17:48
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CosmoHillburger?17:49
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* lbt prods the OBS more ... looking alive18:04
lbtany developers care?18:04
* Stskeeps passes lbt a good cider18:05
CosmoHillwasn't it walk like a zombie day recently?18:05
lbtStskeeps: not when I'm doing remote iptables18:05
lbt:D18:05
lbtalthough I bought a new blend of Drambuie last week... so later...18:06
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lcukCosmoHill, thats called halloween, it happens every year :P18:07
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gasshello there18:36
recklesswaltzhello18:37
gassi am not able to run meego live cd on qemu18:37
gassis there any help on this?18:37
recklesswaltzHave you searched the forums?18:37
lcukgass, you could tell us hat actually happens18:37
* lcuk tried to take a photo of a cd and get it to run once18:37
gasslcuk, i am trying to produce a screenshot18:38
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gassrecklesswaltz, yea18:40
gasslcuk, recklesswaltz http://otiliamatos.ath.cx/~gass/meego_boot.png18:40
* pixelgeek poking at meego 1.1 on virtualbox - not quite there yet18:41
gassthis is running live cd, but instalation only does the same18:41
gasspixelgeek, what image are you using?18:42
pixelgeekthe netbook 1.1 one18:42
gassi get an error18:43
gassin qemu18:43
gassabout the graphics board i think ... i91518:43
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ferringbfabo_: poke18:44
lcukgass, hmm that looks a bit odd18:45
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gasslcuk, humm ... it is booting ... sorry ... slow qemu18:45
pixelgeekfrom irc logs - "Oct 09 01:09:05 <philipp64|laptop> ok, so the nightly builds require the i915/drm drivers and intel_agp to run, but the SDK 1.0.8 image doesn't? how are they build differently?"18:46
gasspixelgeek, humm18:46
pixelgeekstill googling - Im sure Ive seen this discussed on the forum or irc before18:47
* pixelgeek must fix his ' key18:48
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gasspixelgeek, maybe it needs accelerated graphics?18:51
pixelgeekmaybe - I don't know how the virtual environment handles that.18:52
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gassbrb18:56
tybollthmm18:56
tybolltso latest meeg is?18:56
CosmoHillMeego does require 3D acceleration18:57
tybolltCosmoHill: good thing n900 has a 3d chip then18:57
gassCosmoHill, that's my problem as it seems18:57
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CosmoHillisn't there someone here who works for collabora?19:13
lcuk\o19:14
lcukand many more19:14
gasshumm ... my problm is the lack of system support for kvm and then, the lack of support of accelerated graphics in qemu19:14
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CosmoHilljust looking through my logs I've seen about 5 people so car19:15
CosmoHillfar*19:15
CosmoHilllcuk, cool19:15
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Myrttilcuk: have you peeps moved yet?19:16
lcukyes19:16
Myrttiaw19:16
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CosmoHilllol I just saw this bug that someone filed: "Switch to SGHotKeysLib, since PTHotKey crashes like a mofo on 64-bit"19:24
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lcukMyrtti, revdkathy spends a lot of time knitting things, are the pattersn you would use for your embroidery be compatible19:28
Myrttilcuk: I knit more than I embroider19:34
lcukMyrtti, :)19:34
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lcukare you going to the conf?19:35
Myrttilcuk: nope19:35
lcuk:(19:35
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matgnthello. can i somehow get the meego UX working without 3D libs? i want to forward the UI from my beagleboard since i have no monitor to connect to it.20:21
CosmoHillMeego requires 3D acceleration20:22
CosmoHillcould you not try X over ssh?20:22
javispedro3D acceleration over X... uh.20:23
javispedros/X/ssh20:23
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matgntthat's the reason i'm asking. so it seems there is no way to get the typical meego UI without a directly connected screen, right?20:27
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CosmoHillcyas, fireworks time :)20:32
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pixelgeekbit late for that, isn't it?20:46
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lcukDocScrutinizer, will hostmode work on meego?20:59
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alteregolcuk: it will, but like maemo we have to supply a custom kernel as meego releases rely on upstream kernel.org accepted patches21:00
lcukalterego, so if this were wanted properly, the HEN hackers will have to polish the patch and make it fit in with existing proper procedures?21:01
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alteregolcuk: exactly.21:01
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lcuksounds fair to me21:02
DocScrutinizerlcuk: why not?21:02
lcukDocScrutinizer, just raising the question21:03
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alteregoProbably better to ask in #meego-arm though ;)21:03
alteregoAs it's N900 specific.21:03
DocScrutinizerthe hack will never go upstream, as it's too much working around braindamaged bugs specific for N90021:04
lcukalterego, really?21:04
alteregoDocScrutinizer: I think Stskeeps agrees with you there.21:04
lcukso in the netbook21:04
alteregoWe're likely going to have to have a modded kernel image.21:04
lcukhostmode is normal?21:04
* lcuk does not know how things like that work21:04
alteregonetbook is just like a normal computer21:04
* DocScrutinizer neither21:04
alteregoSo it works in the same way as a desktop would.21:05
alteregoN900 is just screwed.21:05
DocScrutinizerhonestly I don't see meego-arm get anywhere with this strict upstream-only policy21:05
alteregoI imagine the N8x0 adaptation, if it ever takes off properly, could have official host support21:05
alteregoor is it otg?21:05
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Stskeepsalterego: well, n8x0 is piece of cake..21:13
DocScrutinizeralterego: N8x0 should work with standard OTG and its hostmode21:13
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alteregoYeah, exactly :)21:13
alteregoIt's beyond me how they decided to drop that functionality in the N900.21:13
DocScrutinizerthey simply messed it up21:14
alteregoIt would have been a massive edge against competition.21:14
alteregoAnd it has massive geek appeal.21:14
alteregoIndeed,21:14
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GAN900Creeping incompetence21:14
DocScrutinizeralterego: N8x0 has AB receptacle, and no need to do proper USB-charging21:15
DocScrutinizerGAN900: too hard21:15
alteregoAh yes, good point.21:15
alteregoI forgot about the charging part.21:15
DocScrutinizerGAN900: actually I have to admit I appreciate what they did21:15
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DocScrutinizergiven the complexity and the blockheads at USBcert, they did a bitter and yet stout-hearted move do get N900 to the people21:18
alteregobbl21:18
DocScrutinizerthey had to rush it, so the change was implemented in a suboptimal way21:19
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DocScrutinizeryet it gave us working USB2.0, emergency recovery charging, proper charger detection according to specs21:21
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DocScrutinizertbh if I had been part of the team back when, I couldn't have changed much I guess21:22
DocScrutinizermaybe 1 or 2 minimal things (which still would have saved us lots and lots of headaches)21:23
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DocScrutinizer(e.g route ID to both 1707 AND twl4030, maybe even to a GPIO in parallel)21:24
DocScrutinizerno bom changes, but proper hostmode still, much like in N8x021:25
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DocScrutinizer@Nokia: Manpower to hire, email joerg AT openmoko.org21:33
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lcukwho has a meego irc client?22:13
nialapidgin ?22:14
lcukidk, thats why i am asking22:14
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nialaidk ?22:15
lcukI don't know22:15
nialaok I m on meego and midgin ish in repo22:15
lcukare you on the netbook build?22:16
lcukand how is it going for you other than irc22:16
nialaor empathy is better integrated22:16
nialayes22:16
nialaI don't understand your question ? pidgin is nice no too much bug ?22:17
nialalcuk you mean other 'social' web app ?22:20
nialayou make stats ?22:20
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lcukniala, i have never used pidgin for irc22:23
nialaah ok well he is very stable,22:24
nialaand permit to have irc msn and other in same screen with tab22:24
lcukcool :)22:25
nialaempathy is  less stable but since 6month maybe I can try again22:25
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lcukhm22:27
nialalcuk but empathy is very nice in meego-panel and he bug has you can see on meego-forum22:27
lcukdo you have a link to the thread?22:28
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nialahttp://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=516 http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=277 http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=452 lcuk22:31
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lcukta22:33
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nialawell I just try to import account from pidgin to empathy and meego ux crash22:37
nialaneed a reboot :(22:38
* niala ask if 1.0 was more stable than 1.122:38
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lcukhmm api.meego.com went under a login wall.  any idea why?23:17
ferringbobs was upgraded earlier this morn23:18
lcukrog, ta23:18
Stskeepslcuk: always been under login wall, but it was down for upgrades23:19
lcukhmm then i am thinking of a different url then!23:20
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* lcuk wonders which link he is thinking of then23:23
lcukahhh apidocs.23:24
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lcukbut its missing a nice front end23:24
lcukhttp://apidocs.meego.com/1.1/core/html/index.html23:24
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