IRC log of #meego for Tuesday, 2010-10-26

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milliamsI'm running opensuse 11.3 on my x86_64 desktop. I want to be able to develop an application for meego handset. I want to be able to test it in some sort of virtual environment (qemu or whatever). I don't want to be relient on Qt Creator (ideally I'd like to use standard CMake). Can anyone help with what I need to download and what my first steps should be? Thanks very much.00:09
milliamsI've tried adding the http://download.meego.com/live/devel:/tools:/sdk:/host/openSUSE_11.3/devel:tools:sdk:host.repo repo and installing the packages but they don't seem to include anything useful (i.e. no usable qmake)00:09
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nialamilliams: hello, http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_SDK_Development_Options00:33
milliamsniala: Hi, so I should install the files manually somewhere rather than rely on the the packages to instal things for me?00:35
milliams(as detailed at http://wiki.meego.com/SDK/Docs/1.1/Getting_started_with_the_MeeGo_SDK_for_Linux)00:35
lcuklbt, Stskeeps, any obs gods - obs accounts, myself and araujo need accounts, can you hook us up please.00:35
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lbtlcuk: on meego.com?00:39
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lcuklbt, hm so that we can create a local OSC obs instance00:40
bdogg64this question may have already been answered somewhere, but what happens to Meego-Harmattan since the official Meego from Nokia has been pushed back to 2011?00:41
thiagobdogg64: huh? no changes.00:41
lbtlcuk: hmmm00:41
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lbtlcuk: ask anaZ who will probably say no00:42
lbtin which case you can do it via the community OBS very very soon00:43
bdogg64so the Meego from Nokia thats coming in 2011 is Harmattan?00:43
lcukhm? why no?00:43
thiagobdogg64: yes00:43
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lbtlcuk: do you have commit rights to a meego package?00:43
lbtI think that is pretty much the criteria for getting an account there00:44
lcuklbt, as required i can, but its likely to include additional packages00:44
lcukif I have to I will get some, libmeegotouch ok?00:44
bdogg64ok, so instead of it being a transitional release, it will be the full blown rpm based Meego release, just so I'm clear00:44
thiagobdogg64: harmattan is still deb based00:44
lbtlcuk: in that case I'd expect you to have it already :)00:44
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lbtlcuk: if you find out what the actual rules are then please educate me ;)00:45
lcukok lbt, will sleep on it and have a discussion tomorrow with a few ppl00:46
lbtI'd expect to find the answe here: http://wiki.meego.com/Build_Infrastructure00:46
bdogg64ok, thx00:46
CosmoHillthis cobs talks?00:46
lbtlcuk: I think the generic answer will be community...00:47
lcuklbt - its for neither public meego.com packages, nor community oss packages though - and in previous discussions the only way to do that is with the OSC local instance00:47
lcukwhich requires an obs account00:47
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lcukanyway, gnite all \o00:48
lbtshort of hackery... osc will only do local builds of packages on the OBS server00:48
lbttalk to me tomorrow :)00:49
lcukk, gnite00:49
lbtg'night00:49
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MrCasehi. any up to date information of how to "easily" dual boot meego on n900?01:25
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bdogg64no update yet, I think more information will come out once 1.1 comes out, hopefully on the 27th01:26
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MrCasecool. thank you bdogg64 :).01:27
bdogg64np01:27
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oshindo I need to repartition after dd the raw ?01:57
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oshinthe raw was 1.9gb, the microsd is 16gb01:57
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oshinso the partition table in the raw won't match the actual size?01:57
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aukeit's impossible to guess the size of the device up front01:58
aukeso, it will never match01:58
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smithnaIs there a way to upgrade an installed meego system via an image?02:00
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CosmoHillhey auke02:01
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oshinauke, means i should repartition the second partition right?02:04
oshinshould I do that before i put microsd back in n900 if I didn't know cfdisk well02:04
aukesmithna: no, not supported at this time02:05
aukeoshin: with the proper caution, that is possible02:06
oshinauke, is it unnecessary ? but I'll just waste some sp02:06
oshinauke, n/m thanks.02:06
smithnaauke: Thanks02:07
aukewell, with btrfs it's not that much of a problem02:07
aukeuse parted to grow the partition02:07
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aukethen use btrfsctl to resize the filesystem to max (can even be done after booting the fs)02:07
oshini cat /proc/partitions on n900  179        8   31264768 mmcblk102:08
oshin15663104 on mmcblk002:08
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oshinn/m I am confused02:09
* smithna wonders if everyone installs a new image everytime they want to test updates out...02:09
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oshinmy mmcblk1 is 32gb? wasn't that the built-in drive?02:10
oshinthat's 32gb, my microsd is 16gb02:10
oshinn/m I will try to remove and figure out..02:10
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oshinstrange.. i remove the microsd and when i cat /proc/partitions i only see mmcblk102:12
oshinwhile mount says /dev/mmcblk0p1 on /home/user/MyDocs02:12
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oshinis that strange?02:12
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oshinis it safe to continue?02:14
aukeno comment. I'm not helping you wipe your data :)02:15
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oshinauke, :)02:15
oshinauke, i dd on microsd, should I be able to mount that image?02:16
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aukeyes, you will have to remove the sd card and re-insert it after dd-ing it02:16
oshinauke, I can mount it on my pc but not on n90002:17
oshini guess i need to specify a file system?02:17
oshinbtrfs?02:18
aukedepends on what is currently running on the n90002:18
oshinauke, maemo02:18
aukethat doesn't have btrfs support I think02:18
oshinI see, thanks.02:18
aukecat /proc/filesystems02:18
oshinnot there, thanks.02:18
oshincat /proc/partitions doesn't seem to match the actual device btw.02:19
oshinstrange..02:19
oshinwhat does flash jig mean?02:23
oshinflashing jig02:23
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aukeI have no idea02:34
aukethingamajig?02:34
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CosmoHillthe thingamajig that connects to the whatsit via the dodar?02:37
oshinno idea..02:37
oshinhttp://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Install/MMC02:38
aukejust beware of thing two and thing one!02:38
aukeyou would not get very far!02:38
oshinok, thanks02:38
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CosmoHillcyas03:14
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araujoanyone has tested latest SDK image?05:37
araujofor handsets ...05:37
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wall[e]does meego have its own wm protocol?06:55
wall[e]or just reuse those from freedesktop?06:56
wall[e]if I want to port x toolkit to it, where should I start?06:56
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thiagowall[e]: WM is still X08:04
thiagomcompositor simply knows about a few extra properties that explain whether the application is aware that it should be doing MeeGo-style client-side decorations08:04
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wall[e]thiago: something like extended window manager hint08:25
wall[e]any addition of that specific to meego?08:26
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wall[e]any document I should take a look?08:27
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* wall[e] checks mcompositor08:28
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wall[e]mcompositor is a part of meegotouch? does that mean it requires qt?08:29
Charubala1920Hi All. I want to replace the kernel in the meego usb with a new kernel. I tried to replace the kernel with the mic-image-connverter. But the image produced by that is not bootable. Could someone please help me?08:29
Charubala1920Type : I want to replace the kernel in the meego usb image with a new kernel08:30
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jessica_#meego-bugs08:34
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Charubala1920K. Jessica. I will file a bug. However i want to get through this now. Did anyone faced similar?. Does anyone have a hack to replace the kernel in the meego usb image ?08:36
jessica_hi charubala190, you talk with me?08:37
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Charubala1920Do you want me to initiate a private chat08:39
Charubala1920?08:39
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jessica_sure, if you need08:41
Charubala1920Jessica I am not how to start the chat. Can you initiate that? I issued /dcc chat jessica. But nothing happened08:42
Charubala1920I am not sure08:42
Charubala1920Can you inittiate that08:42
Charubala1920?08:42
wall[e] /dialog someone08:42
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Charubala1920Thanks Walle08:43
Charubala1920Jessica/Walle, i gave the command, /dialog jessica_. I didnt see any response. Jessica are you getting any notification for the private chat08:45
Charubala1920?08:45
jessica_yes, i don't see anything08:46
wall[e]try /msg someone08:46
jessica_ok, whether you have IM account?08:46
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Charubala1920Seems /msg is accepted. But says "Insufficient arguments for command" when i give /msg jessica_.08:47
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tomma /msg <nick> <messsage>08:49
Charubala1920Walle, the command syntax is this. /msg <nick> <message>. Jessica i just now gave a msg like that.  Are you getting any message from me. Thanks tomma08:50
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jessica_charubala1920, yes, i get your message08:53
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Charubala1920?08:57
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Charubala1920Jessica /msg is not working for me now. when i give /msg jessica_ <messgae>. I dont see any response08:58
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wall[e]you can both join a channel too.09:08
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Charubala1920Walle i got connected. Thanks Jessica09:12
Charubala1920Sorry Thanks Walle09:12
jessica_no problem, i think yi will solve your problem09:13
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Alison_ChaikenScreenshots of HeyBuddy identi.ca client running on MeeGo netbook under qemu-kvm: http://tinyurl.com/24sty5x    No mods needed by me, just ran and connected to identi.ca.   Hey, PyGTK really is portable!   H/T to Jezra of jezra.net, the author.09:22
Alison_ChaikenPeople who think computing is joyless should have been watching me when I installed the sucker and it just ran.    Next I'll try Xchat on meego-qemu.09:25
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sunderhi, need help configuring evtouch10:03
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Myrttisunder: not that I could help you at all, but in general it's a lot easier to help if you actually give some pointers on where exactly you need help in10:34
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sunderMyrtti: I am on ConnectCore iMx51 based board and my evtouch configuration is SEGFAULTing X10:37
sunderMyrtti: the evtouch driver is compiled for Xorg 1.8.99 and i am using Xorg 1.9.00 .. does is matter?10:37
Stskeepssunder: yes, it does10:38
Stskeepsyou really should be using evdev10:38
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sunderStskeeps: i have tried .. could u please help? i means with the configuration10:38
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Stskeepssunder: http://pastie.org/1249448 is our n900 configuration - you need to take the section about Touchscreen10:39
Stskeepsand adjust it to your needs - start out with no "Calibration" line10:40
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sunderStskeeps: Thanks, 'll check it and revert ifa nay queries..10:40
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Stskeepssunder: since you're doing meego ARM work, #meego-arm is the place for you - we don't do your homework (as in, you'll have to understand the documentation yourself), but we do guide in the right direction10:41
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* rittk just noticed that that lenovo s10-3t has a sim-card slot11:26
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rittkbut seems like it doesn't supported on meego by some reason11:27
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lcukhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4Wy7gRGgeA11:59
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* rittk rebuilds the kernel12:05
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rittkniala: have you an internal 3g modem in that lenovo thing?12:05
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nialahello rittk I don't have a lenova, I m fighting with asus t10112:06
lcukrittk, pop a sim in it and see if dmesg gives any reaction?12:07
nialas/with/again12:07
rittkah12:07
nialahello lcuk12:07
lcukhi niala12:08
rittklcuk: nope. trying to rebuild the kernel with dccp and ericsson/nokia support12:08
lcukok rittk let us know how that goes, which model lenovo is it?12:08
rittkcommunity says that this thing has a F3507g modem12:09
* lcuk beats up box1 whilst doing stuff on box212:09
rittklcuk: s10-3t12:09
rittkstrange thing - I have a 3g modem but have no bluetooth unit in it12:10
lcukrittk, does the rest of the system appear compatible and working?12:10
rittklcuk: yep. and even more stable with kernel-2.6.3612:10
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rittkunpatched, though12:10
rittkbtw, kernel from a daily repo hanging sometimes12:11
lcukok, rittk could you make sure you add your device specific notes on here: http://wiki.meego.com/Devices12:11
lcukwhether it works or not, next time someone with a device comes along they might have easier time than you12:11
rittklcuk: didn't see that page) reading...12:11
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rittkwho have lenovo s10-3t  too?12:49
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nialarittk: what's wrong with s10-3t ?12:55
rittkniala: wanted to see someone's else lspci output12:56
rittk(someone else's ?)12:56
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nialaoki :/ good luck12:57
rittkblessing me?)12:57
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nialaI bless you12:58
rittkthanks)12:59
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* rittk going to reboot and test the new kernel13:00
nialaonly R Stallman can bless you rittk http://www.blog-note.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/richard-stallman-gourou1.jpg13:00
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rittkf??? him13:00
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sofarslow down...13:02
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rittkhmm, it didn't find any 3g modems (13:03
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denis___new Meego sdk image meego-handset-sdk-20101012-1.1.80.20101024.1603-sda.raw is available for downloading from meego site, but it seems like it has no startmeego and qtcreator.. So how can I develop using this image?13:28
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lcukdenis___, I already asked about the startmeego case on the -sdk ML earlier13:30
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araujodenis___, you need to install meego-simulator-launcher-handset13:32
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lcukconfirmed araujo :D thanks - can we add that note to the wiki13:35
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araujolcuk, definitely :]13:36
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denis___araujo, thnk, now it works13:37
denis___are these "beginner" questions ok in this channel or they should be asked in other channel?13:38
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lcukdenis___, ask away, if it gets too crowded can find a better place13:39
* lcuk gets on with that email now13:39
araujodenis___, I think all-level meego questions are welcome here :)13:40
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denis___ok, cool )13:40
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denis___hmm, qtcreator is not installed also, how can I install qtcreator?..13:42
araujosame way you installed the launcher?13:43
araujozypper in qt-creator13:43
denis___ah, yes ) Tried zypper install qtcreator but that was not correct..13:44
Bostikzypper search ...13:45
Bostikthat's a good start13:45
denis___Bostik, a, thanks, zypper is a quite new tool for me..13:46
Bostikif you've ever used apt frontends, you will learn zypper in a flash13:47
Bostikmost of the commands are similar enough to lower the learning curve13:47
denis___I hope so13:47
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AcidbangerHi guys14:34
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CosmoHillhello14:35
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AcidbangerI was going to flash MeeGo on my n900 but I found out there was no ubiimg file online .....14:35
Stskeepsyou need a microsd14:35
Acidbanger-.- gay14:36
Acidbangerdon't have that on me atm14:36
CosmoHillheterosexual microsd cards work just as well14:36
Acidbangerhaha :D14:36
CosmoHillyou also need the N900 usb cable14:36
AcidbangerI have the USB cable14:37
Acidbangergonna try to find hte SD Card14:37
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Acidbangerwhy are we using the SD card btw and not the original way14:37
Stskeepscos we don't fit in 256mb flash memory14:38
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Acidbangeris the img bigger then 256Mb ?14:38
Stskeepsyeah14:38
Acidbangerlol14:38
Acidbangerused to be like 137mb right ?14:38
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Acidbangerso I am using the raw image now right ?14:39
Stskeepsa base system, xorg and xterm doesn't really require much space14:39
Stskeeps:P14:39
CosmoHillStskeeps: how's this:14:40
CosmoHill 41 * Why do you need a MicroSD card to run MeeGo on the N900?14:40
CosmoHill 42 - MeeGo is to large to fit on the N900's internal 256MB memory.14:40
Acidbangeris there a nice guide anywhere online for flashing with the sd card ?14:41
Stskeepswiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Install/MMC14:41
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thiagothere's a 32 GB extra memory on the N900...14:42
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CosmoHillhttp://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Install/MMC14:42
CosmoHillStskeeps: damn you14:42
Stskeepsthiago: yeah, but most people aren't happy to erase all their music, movies, installed programs and so on..14:43
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Joppeffsis the wiki up to date as 1.3 q14:43
Joppeffswas released yday14:44
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thiagoit's partitioned so that there's a 2 GB ext3 and a 29 GB vfat14:44
thiagoand 768 MB swap14:44
StskeepsJoppeffs: http://blip.tv/file/429620814:44
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lcukcan meego be mounted and booted from an image file stored on the fat32 MyDocs ?14:45
lcukso its not actually breaking existing?14:45
Stskeepsno, unless you set up dm loop and a special initrd14:45
lcukyes that is yes, but not easily.. :p14:45
lcuk(glass half full)14:46
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CosmoHillI wonder if the N900 can play that video better than my powerbook :/14:47
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Joppeffsoh well, gonna try that14:55
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timophMeeGo QA tools weekly meeting starts in about 5 minutes in #meego-meeting14:56
timophfeel free to join14:56
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TiliI am using debian on vmware. should I go for Qemu setup of xephyr?15:24
Tilii have nvidia card but that doesn't matter on VMware15:25
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rittkoFono 0.33 was released15:32
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alvinatorHello people!16:41
alvinatorcan anyone point me to the right link for the kickstart config files for handsets?16:41
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alvinatorthis link is already dead -- http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/devel/trunk/images/16:42
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alvinatorfound it16:44
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hobhi, which is the best option to test meego release images - qemu or chroot?17:10
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qgilhob, which UX are you targeting?17:14
Stskeepsqgil: if you didn't see the dual booting video yet, http://blip.tv/file/429620817:14
hobnetbook image17:15
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lardmanStskeeps: interesting you can see the proximilty sensor flickering in your video17:16
Stskeepslardman: yeah, infrared17:16
lardmanyep17:16
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lardmanStskeeps: so that auto-boots the SD if available then?17:17
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Stskeepslardman: yeah, looks for a uimage on vfat partition 317:17
qgil__Stskeeps: a sad paradox: trying to access the video page with Chromium in MeeGo Netbook sends me to http://www.google.com/support/chrome/bin/answer.py?answer=95669&hl=en17:17
* Stskeeps looks17:18
Stskeepsah, lovely17:18
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qgil__Stskeeps: can you paste the URL again pls?17:19
Stskeepshttp://blip.tv/file/429620817:19
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javispedroor http://blip.tv/file/get/Chuci-N900DualbootingMaemoAndMeeGo117.m4v17:20
Stskeepsif meego has codecs for it..17:20
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* Stskeeps makes a mental reminder to ask people to encode in theora..17:22
nialahello, yes first url works for me on meego netbook chromium. but m4v I think not by default17:22
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javispedroWe are going to need lots of replacement battery covers soon :)17:26
Stskeepsi haven't killed mine yet17:26
Stskeepsthere's possibility for more of a menu if you'd like to customize17:27
Stskeepsfull u-boot boot script support17:27
javispedronice.17:28
Stskeeps.. and passing parameters to kernel17:28
TermanaStskeeps, I think mine must have been the only one that wouldn't boot into Maemo using u-boot17:28
TermanaMust have been destined to die to rid me of the problem17:29
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TermanaIt'll be interesting to see if it happens to anyone else once u-boot is the official way to dual boot17:29
Stskeepswell, we need to properly test it natually17:30
Stskeepsnaturally17:30
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TermanaStskeeps, there's a problem with that - does the adaptation team have at least one of every revision of the n900? I'm not sure weather it was specifically mine, or something changed in the hardware revision that made it incompatible. It's a possibility it won't get caught until it's given out, and even then, it will be a hard arse problem to fix, since the person probably won't have serial access17:33
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StskeepsTermana: QA has a quite extensive area and i plan to be tying u-boot with pr1.3 kernel..17:33
StskeepsTermana: were you loading the uImage from sd card?17:33
TermanaStskeeps, I tried both methods, attached with the u-boot image and from SD17:34
Stskeepshmm17:34
Stskeepsthat's interesting17:34
Stskeepspower kernel installed?17:34
Termananope17:34
TermanaI wouldn't touch that with a ten foot pole :p17:34
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Stskeepsgood17:34
Stskeeps:P17:34
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lbtStskeeps: are we going to have an "install fest" at the conference?17:37
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Stskeepslbt: maybe17:40
lbtare you going early ? Sat/sun ?17:40
Stskeepslanding sunday17:41
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lbt'k17:41
Myrttiawwwwwww17:42
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Termanalbt, make it more interesting - run apache on MeeGo on your n900 and allow people to connect to your n900 over wifi, and host the image on it17:45
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TermanaForget the fact that it will be half curling over from swapping having MeeGo and Apache, and also forget the fact Apache isn't ported for MeeGo ARM (afaik).17:46
Termana:p17:46
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* lbt runs lighttpd on his N90017:47
lbt:D17:47
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MyrttiStskeeps: is there a sane way of encoding theora anyway? I tried mencoder but my brain segfaulted looking for a way17:53
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StskeepsMyrtti: ffmpeg2theora is nice and eas17:53
Stskeepsy17:53
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Jartzahmmh18:11
Jartzaall went well with the update18:11
Jartzabrowsers feels much faster18:12
iekkun900?18:12
Jartzayep18:12
Myrttihm, I wonder should I have picked a slightly worse quality of video18:12
Myrttithis is going to take forever18:12
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SwedeMikeafter the upgrade it went back to stock kernel instead of the power kernel I used to have, I wonder if I tried the power save settings too much, because phone feels much quicker. What are you all running, stock kernel or the power one?18:22
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SwedeMikeoh, sorry, wrong channel18:22
Jartzaoh yeah, same here :)18:23
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rittkwasted two hours to understand why my internal 3g modem isn't supported...googling, reading, patching the kernel - nothing helps...19:01
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rittkand finally the answer!19:01
rittksomeone stole 3g unit19:02
rittkb????s19:02
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Linexwhats taking meego so long to get on a phone ? I can't wait to dump my symbian phone.19:26
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ml-mobileIt's still in development19:27
ml-mobileNokia will have a meego phone next year, othwr vendors have yet to announce anything19:27
markattoI gave in and bought an evo, tired of waiting :(19:28
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markattoI will of course regret my decision when the n9 or whatever the first meego device is, especially if it is cortex-a919:29
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milliamsTrying to run the recent handset image with QEMU I get:    ./meego-qemu-start: line 64:  9854 Segmentation fault  `echo $COMMON_CMD -hda $IMAGE_NAME`19:35
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milliams(following http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_SDK_with_QEMU#Setup_QEMU-based_MeeGo_Emulator)19:37
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milliamsI haven't tried the netbook image yet but I'm going to once it's downloaded19:39
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Linexno intel chip on a phone ? :-)19:52
ml-mobilenot for a while I imagine19:53
ml-mobilethey're still way behind in power consumption19:53
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niala http://forum.meego.com/ is down ?19:55
ml-mobileyes, I believe it shares a server with talk.maemo.org...? and that's toast too.19:56
CosmoHillniala: oui19:56
nialaarghh19:56
nialahello CosmoHill19:56
CosmoHillbonsoir19:56
nialahow are you.19:56
CosmoHillje vias bien, merci19:57
CosmoHillet toi?19:57
nialaI'm fine. c'est la vie19:57
CosmoHillvie?19:57
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nialalife19:58
CosmoHillah merci19:58
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nialaI have some pb with mic . I can not do my own meego.iso19:59
nialaI have already do some and  today:  UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xc3 in position 13: ordinal not in range(128)20:00
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RST38hwell 0xC3 is a wrongascii code indeed20:01
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loufoqueis there any phone I could purchase if I want meego?20:03
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nialayes and why he says me that today? ks file in wrong format?20:03
nialaloufoque: n900 I suppose20:04
loufoqueI thought meego on N900 wasn't officially supported20:05
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ml-mobileit isn't20:05
ml-mobilebut it is the reference device20:05
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milliamsOK, so following http://wiki.meego.com/SDK/Docs/1.1/Getting_started_with_the_MeeGo_SDK_for_Linux (I'm on openSUSE 11.3 x86_64) I've managed to cross-compile the qt example to ARM. What's the next step for running it in an emulator? Doing meego-qemu-start with the images at http://wiki.meego.com/Getting_started_with_the_MeeGo_SDK_for_Linux just segfaults.20:31
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aukefix the segfault, would be the next step :)20:31
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milliamsheh :)20:34
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milliamsIn fact it's stranger than that. If I manually run the command that meego-qemu-start is doing then I get http://pastebin.com/y5F24XCY which is strange because it looks like it's ignoring some of the arguments or something.. Anyone else seen this?20:38
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toprohi, is there a special channel for meego-on-n900 or is this the right place to ask?21:13
ml-mobiletry #meego-arm21:13
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theplicthe #meego-leg really kicks some arse21:17
stephghoho21:17
* stephg it's actually suspiciously quiet in -arm at the moment21:18
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CosmoHillstephg: shout something21:18
CosmoHillbtw was it you who made the dual boot n900 video?21:19
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stephgmy video, ali1234 and Stskeeps work21:19
lcukCosmoHill, how many computers would it take to fill the batcave?21:20
CosmoHilllcuk: depends which decade you get it from21:21
milliamsand this is the backtrace from the crash: http://pastebin.com/DTsdhcVd21:21
lcukwell assume its quite an old cave21:21
lcuk:P21:21
CosmoHillabout a dozen?21:21
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stephgbtw anyone know exactly why the forum has gone down the tubes? can't just be because of Maemo PR1.3 traffic can it?21:29
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CosmoHillstephg: talk.maemo.something has gone down too21:30
stephgCosmoHill, yeah they're on the same infrastructure, that's why I was wondering21:30
CosmoHillI thought the download the download server and forum server are different21:31
stephgit's just it's the second day of forum flakeyness and it's launching tomorrow...21:31
stephgthey may be:- just that TMO and FMC flakiness coinciding is more than a bit odd21:31
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lcukstephg, talk and forum are on same server21:33
stephgso chicken or egg ;)21:33
lcukand do not underestimate the hoards of people wanting to jump onto threads21:33
lcukregiie posted the load from the server on twitter last night afaik21:34
lcukreggie21:34
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stephglcuk, can appreciate the TMO excitement, especially given the, ahem,  voracity of some of the posters21:35
CosmoHillstephg: dinosaur21:35
stephgheh21:36
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* CosmoHill goes looking for his attention span22:00
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sjokkisCosmoHill: there was a lecture at the university today regarding improving your memory, in order to do better at exams. guess who forgot to go22:02
CosmoHillit's either you or your teacher22:02
sjokkisme. but i'm guessing i wasn't the only one22:02
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CosmoHillthey changed our university rules22:03
CosmoHillif you miss an exam or dead line you score zero for that and you're not allowed a resit22:04
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CosmoHillunless you have a very good reason22:04
Stskeepshrm, sprint joining meego22:04
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CosmoHillI wonder if I can buy a crashed car and some fake blood...22:06
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sjokkiswhat is going on? i'm logged into meego.com, i go to wiki.meego.com, it asks me to log in, i click log in, it sends me back to meego.com, and when i navigate to wiki.meego.com i'm asked to log in again22:17
Stskeepsold bug22:17
sjokkisi've had this problem for days, and it's becoming more and more urgent that i sign myself up for one of the shared rooms22:17
CosmoHillsjokkis: logout then log in again22:17
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sjokkisCosmoHill: thank you22:20
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CosmoHillsjokkis: I got so confused when I saw the log in and log out button at the same time22:23
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qgil__Stskeeps: is this hardfp going to 1.2, then? I don't see the big deal either22:39
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thiagoprobably have simply two builds22:41
thiagoI've been asking the same question to linaro folks here at UDS22:42
Stskeepsarjan has a point to some degree, the hardfp work is 'very new'22:42
thiagoharmattan has switched to it22:43
stephg^that was going to be my question22:43
thiagoapparently firefox has an issue. That's as far as I know the only one.22:43
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Stskeepsthiago: could you ask them a simple question: is linaro toolchain going to be hardfp as primary point of reference?22:45
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thiagoStskeeps: explain22:46
thiagowhat do you mean by that?22:46
Stskeepsok, so, linaro delivers their toolchain and a reference stack which vendors can build their closed components and so on on top of22:46
Stskeeps(to my knowledge)22:46
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Stskeepsif their plan is to stick with softfp or hardfp in the things they provide22:46
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Stskeepsbecause if they're going for hardfp, there's really no doubt that we have to go hardfp too22:47
lbtqgil__: OBS naming... any issues with build.pub.meego.com as per : http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=167122:49
thiagoI asked the question22:49
thiagoso the toolchain supports hardfp22:49
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thiagowhether they have a Linaro hardfp build is not a decision from the toolchain team22:49
thiagobut it's something they're considering22:49
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qgil__lbt: do you mind asking via email to -community?  :)22:50
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qgil__looks fine to me here and now but better go through more visible discussion22:51
lbtsure...22:51
lbtCosmoHill: ping22:51
qgil__thiago: I understand the reasoning not to introduce it in 1.1.x, wouldn't it too bad if it enters in 1.222:52
qgil__thiago: or am I missing something?22:52
* thiago agrees22:52
thiagoI actually recommended doing it for 1.222:52
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qgil__thiago: ok, I got confused in the thread, thenç22:52
thiagothe best would be if 1.1 switched now22:52
thiagobut that's not gonna happen :-)22:53
* thiago needs to go talk to arjan f2f on Thursday22:53
Stskeepsqgil__: the problem is that it is essentially like adding a new architecture, like MIPS ..22:53
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qgil__Stskeeps: I'm not an architect  :) but if Harmattan is shipping with it I guess they had reasons to do that, and since it's going to a real product I guess they are taking care of the QA related to that22:54
qgil__Stskeeps: then again app developers will have to recompile anyway between MeeGo 1.2 and MeeGo-Harmattan, so I don't even see the big worry for them during 1.2, if you push me  :)22:55
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andyrossIsn't the worry that it breaks forward compatibility from earlier MeeGo binaries, not that it forces a recompile per se.22:55
Stskeepsandyross: basically22:55
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Stskeepsif meego 1.1 for some reason is a success in ARM market, ISVs, SoC vendors would build binaries and for 1.2, they'd be worthless.. and then we have the problem of "For MeeGo 1.1" "For MeeGo 1.2" ..22:58
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thiagoI think the boat has sailed on changing 1.123:00
thiagothat one ises softfp23:00
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thiagothe question is how to go forward. There's a huge CPU stall on doing softfp. If you don't care about compatibility with ARMv5, you should use the FPU.23:00
qgil__Stskeeps: ARM success would imply either Handset or Tablet most likely - whoever gets doen that path for 1.1 knows that will need to add some work23:00
Stskeepsyeah, quite a fair bit of work23:00
thiagonumbers I've heard here are that it improves apps between 5% to 30%23:00
thiagoand some apps that are fp-intensive (like povray) up to 300%23:01
lbtmmm povray23:01
* wmarone raytraces on his N90023:01
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Stskeepsthe developer story sucks intensely with this break, but then again: we already mandate compliance towards a certain version (1.1, 1.2..), with no promises in compliance doc on ABI stability... and in the end: it's just adding a new build target to your OBS or selecting the right option in the SDK23:02
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berndhsqgil__: can the people with some inside knowledge determine if there actually are any ARM targets for 1.1 that matter, from the compatibility issue that Stskeeps shows ?23:02
qgil__then again, if this is an ARM-only issue, therefore affecting mainly Handset / Tablet and in the meantime Harmattan is already using it.... I can see how the risk and heat could be taken by the MeeGo ARM team - but this is easy speculation from my side  :)23:02
* thiago points out that there are some ARM netbooks circulating here in Orlando23:02
Stskeepsberndhs: i can't tell who will start building anything based on meego 1.1 arm in the future23:02
thiagorunning on NVidia Tegra II23:03
berndhsStskeeps: that's sort of my point, nobody knwos if there will be any in the next 6 months or so23:03
wmaronewas there a reason this wasn't discussed months ago?23:03
qgil__berndhs: no idea, I work at Nokia and beyond that I only know what you can read too in the Internet23:03
berndhsStskeeps: but perhaps if meego announces a compatibility change to 1.2, there won't be for another few months23:03
zumbi_thiago: I got one running arround freescale imx51 (genesi smartbook)23:04
thiagoI think at this point we need to treat it as a new arch23:04
qgil__berndhs: I don't think an ARM vendr would change plans for this hrdfp being implemented now or later23:04
thiagowe'll figure out how to deprecate softfp later23:04
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Stskeepsthiago: well, we ditched armv5 silently for meego 1.1 ;)23:04
Stskeepsso there's a previous occourence23:05
thiagoI never considered the ARMv5 build serious23:05
thiagothere was a dissonance in having OpenGL ES required and ARMv523:05
Stskeepsyeah, we have to be at least at armv6+vfp for those to appear..23:05
berndhsthiago: yes say its an additional arch and tell people how great this is, meego has 3 now23:05
thiagomaybe more in the future23:06
thiagoI see a MIPS down the line...23:06
Stskeepsbut the 'adding another arch' direction is the only way technically23:06
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qgil__makes sense23:06
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thiagobtw, does anyone have the ARM build and can run readelf -A on libQtCore for me, please?23:06
berndhsStskeeps: make it look like an advantage then23:06
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zumbi_you could invest time in providing optimized libs via hwcaps -- /me questions23:07
thiagozumbi_: not if it's an ABI-changing option23:07
thiagounless you want to duplicate *all* libraries and plugins on the device23:07
Stskeepsthiago: sec23:07
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qgil__lbt CosmoHill and what can be found at 'pub.meego.com'?23:07
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lbtI'd redirect that to build.pub.meego.com23:08
qgil__lbt: and why not call it pub.meego.com directly?23:08
lbtor.... we could have beer as in free ?23:08
lbtwe have api.pub.meego.com23:08
thiagobeer.pub.meego.com23:08
lbtand download.pub.meego.com23:08
lbttogether these are the OBS web services23:08
berndhsi support beer.pub.meego.com23:09
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Stskeepsthiago: http://pastie.org/125098523:09
lbtberndhs: I do thing the redirect after 10 seconds page could be entertaining ;)23:09
qgil__lbt: I think you are just baptizing your Surrounds as MeeGo Pub, which doesn't sound bad to me  :)23:10
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thiagoStskeeps: thanks23:10
lbtheh... it's kinda related23:11
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thiagono Neon requirements there23:11
Stskeepsthiago: yeah, armv7 is currently without neon23:11
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lbtSurrounds may become a project in pub23:11
thiagoI know23:11
thiagobut the thing is that Qt turns it back on23:11
thiagounless the option is disabled specifically in configure23:11
thiagodo you know if we specifically turn Neon off?23:11
Stskeepsthiago: i think configure takes it away.. sec23:12
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Stskeepsspeaking of nvidia tegra2 .. it doesn't have NEON does it?23:13
* thiago needs to change rooms23:13
thiagobb in 5 min23:13
* qgil__ has for lunch this Soup Chowder Clam New Engand that says "Sell by 10/24/10" and was in my refrigerator for a week - hope to see you in Dublin! :)23:14
bunkStskeeps: no NEON on tegra223:14
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jobermayrlbt: How do I get access to build.meego.com. I have an account for build.opensuse.org.23:14
wmaroneis NEON a separately licensed IP from the A9 core?23:14
lbtjobermayr: you gain commit rights to a core meego package :)23:14
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lbtjobermayr: for the community OBS ... you keep waiting :( Sorry23:15
lbt(really not long now I hope)23:15
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jobermayrlbt: djszapi asked for help preparing kdelibs4 for meego.23:15
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lbtjobermayr: see msg23:18
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thiagoback23:18
Stskeepswb23:18
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thiagothe configure script turns neon off? (-no-neon)23:20
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Stskeepsright, i was going to look at the build log23:22
thiagospec file should be enough23:22
Stskeepswhile i look, how did the autodetect-neon stuff go?23:23
thiagoif it's on automatic, it adds -mfpu=neon to the compiler and then tries to compile a program with the intrinsics23:24
thiagoif that works, then it concludes Neon is available23:24
Stskeepsthiago: http://pastie.org/125101523:25
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Stskeeps(search for neon)23:26
thiagoyeah23:26
thiagointeresting, the issue here is the order of the parameters23:26
thiagootherwise neon would've been enabled23:26
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MeeGoExpertsEvening all.23:39
Stskeepsevenin'23:40
MeeGoExperts:-)23:40
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MeeGoExpertsstskeeps: I see your getting to #MeegoConf on Sunday ? I'm landing on Sunday as well :-)23:42
Stskeepsyeah - i need to re-check the time, did the booking a while ago23:43
* thiago lands on Sunday too23:43
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maxamillionare there any meego developer devices that can be purchased at this time or are those still slated for a later date?23:44
MeeGoExpertsI'm WELL looking forward to it.23:44
Stskeepsmaxamillion: n900's a developer device for meego :)23:44
maxamillionI've seen the N900 and I'd rather not pay that price for a last gen phone, and I saw the Aava but I can't find a way to buy one23:44
maxamillionStskeeps: yeah, but the hardware really doesn't warrant the price tag23:44
thiagoAava are not production devices23:45
MeeGoExpertsAs far as i know there won't be anything on sale. Could be wrong.23:45
thiagothey are development boards23:45
Stskeepsmaxamillion: if you add up what a beagleboard, a 32gb flash chip, camera module, touchscreen and 3g gsm modem costs in off-the-shelf, it's decent..23:45
lbtI thought the aava had gfx issues for meego ?23:45
maxamillionStskeeps: I suppose23:45
thiagoit does23:46
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maxamillionhrmmm....23:47
maxamillionI'll look into it next pay check I suppose23:47
Stskeepsout of curiousity, what do you think the n900 price is ?23:47
Stskeeps(don't look)23:48
Stskeeps:P23:48
maxamillionStskeeps: $40023:48
maxamillionStskeeps: at least that's what it was last time I looked23:48
Stskeeps:nod: might be lower some places23:49
maxamillionand according to amazon.com I am off by a penny23:49
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tranqensteinI recently picked up a used N900 for $225, what a deal!23:50
tranqensteinbarely a scratch on it23:50
maxamillioninteresting23:51
berndhstranqenstein: did the owner fight back ? does that explain the scratches ?23:51
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tranqensteinhe was working at zynga and they made him switch to android...  I think the N900 was his personal choice.  but, he decided he'd rather let someone else use his n900 than let it sit around.23:55
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tranqensteinI've seen a few other slightly used n900 on CL and Ebay.  I think they are a great deal, but its hard to know if they have had any damage or have been dropped.23:56
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maxamillionI'll look around23:58
maxamillionI'm on an android device now and I don't dislike Android, but I'd much prefer a standard GNU/Linux system in my pocket ... just seems fun, and I'm a big Qt4 fan so that helps too23:59

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