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| Rydekull | Hrm | 00:10 |
|---|---|---|
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| Rydekull | I wonder if I can get a stock meego interface on my wetab in some way | 00:10 |
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| th0br0 | how is the wetab in general, Rydekull? | 00:10 |
| Rydekull | disappointing :-) | 00:11 |
| th0br0 | how so? | 00:11 |
| Rydekull | mostly because of the screen, its a bit bad on its angle | 00:11 |
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| Rydekull | and its not really the nicest screen to touch | 00:11 |
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| Rydekull | then, their UI ontop of things seems quite limiting | 00:12 |
| th0br0 | mh, ok. but other than that? how is the android integration etc? (just wondering as i had evaluated getting one in the past) | 00:12 |
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| Rydekull | android integration? Dunno of any to be honest | 00:12 |
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| Rydekull | not any that I've found, then again, I dont know german, so might be somewhere where it states that on german | 00:12 |
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| Rydekull | I just got it earlier today and im tinkering with it to learn how it works | 00:12 |
| th0br0 | well, initially it was supposed to seamlessly integrate with android | 00:13 |
| th0br0 | ah ok :) | 00:13 |
| Rydekull | Yeah, I know that they've been talking about that | 00:13 |
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| th0br0 | if you need any german -> english translation tell me ;) | 00:13 |
| Rydekull | but, dunno where that integration exists :-P | 00:13 |
| th0br0 | hehe k | 00:13 |
| Rydekull | well, im swedish, so I can read german quite well, dont know every word or so, but I can grasp the context | 00:13 |
| th0br0 | ah ok :) | 00:14 |
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| Rydekull | But sadly, as expected, its not a device that makes you go "ooh" | 00:14 |
| th0br0 | ok | 00:14 |
| Rydekull | and I really hate the fan | 00:14 |
| Rydekull | :-D | 00:14 |
| Rydekull | It's even sounding more then my Quadcore Athlon with 7 drives in it | 00:15 |
| th0br0 | o.O ok | 00:15 |
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| Rydekull | I dont really get why you put a fan in a tablet? | 00:16 |
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| niala | hello, thank youu th0br0 for your help saturday, my ssd is Ordered | 00:18 |
| th0br0 | you're welcome :) and nice to hear that. | 00:18 |
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| Rydekull | so... | 00:25 |
| * Rydekull goes to start collecting info and backing up everything he can find on the device | 00:25 | |
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| Rydekull | it's quite fun though, first time im playing with a meego-device at all | 00:26 |
| Rydekull | just too bad it isnt stock | 00:26 |
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| Rydekull | it looks quite funny having a fresh new wetab-tablet running meego and connected to it is a old keytronic ergoforce over USB \o/ | 00:27 |
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| Rydekull | I wonder if official meego-sources would work on the device | 00:29 |
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| CosmoHill | Meego boots off of USB so you can try if you'd like | 00:34 |
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| Rydekull | CosmoHill: the problem is getting the wetab to boot off USB :-P | 00:36 |
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| CosmoHill | that's not a problem...it's a challenge | 00:39 |
| Rydekull | oh, absolutely :-) | 00:39 |
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| djszapi | is it safe to use meego on n900, did someone break the device with it yet ? | 00:41 |
| CosmoHill | define break | 00:42 |
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| djszapi | not usable anymore with not that much hacking. | 00:43 |
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| wmarone | it's usable to the degree that you can use wifi (I think) and make phonecalls | 00:48 |
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| Rydekull | any suggestion where I could find hwinfo for meego? | 00:48 |
| CosmoHill | oo | 00:49 |
| CosmoHill | http://cross-lfs.org/~cosmo/meego/faq.txt | 00:49 |
| djszapi | is that possible with no harm, if I use my mobile for maemo in the daytime and for meego development at night/evening ? | 00:50 |
| djszapi | with no hassle ? | 00:50 |
| CosmoHill | it's possible to boot the n900 into meego without touching the internal OS | 00:51 |
| djszapi | rly ? | 00:51 |
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| CosmoHill | yes | 00:53 |
| CosmoHill | I should point out I don't have a N900 myself | 00:53 |
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| bdogg64 | ComsoHill, yes | 00:56 |
| bdogg64 | you can boot from the sdcard | 00:56 |
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| djszapi | k kool | 00:56 |
| * niala need more ram than 1G for use meego on usb-live after 4 hours | 00:57 | |
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| CosmoHill | niala: ah | 00:59 |
| djszapi | memory leak ? Valgrind ? | 00:59 |
| djszapi | I am not sure valgrind is available though :) | 00:59 |
| auke | it is | 00:59 |
| djszapi | but it is typically the problem that can be tested on PC as well | 00:59 |
| niala | valgrind? | 01:00 |
| djszapi | y | 01:01 |
| niala | CosmoHill: give me link to your faq ? | 01:01 |
| CosmoHill | http://cross-lfs.org/~cosmo/meego/faq.txt | 01:01 |
| niala | what is valgrind djszapi ? | 01:01 |
| CosmoHill | niala: it's a program used to check for memory allocation and leaks | 01:02 |
| CosmoHill | you need to compile the program with the debug flag tho | 01:02 |
| niala | noted | 01:02 |
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| djszapi | niala: probably your own application | 01:02 |
| djszapi | I hardly can imagine it in the default architecture :) | 01:02 |
| djszapi | but everything can happen. | 01:03 |
| djszapi | I do not think valgrind is needed at first glance | 01:03 |
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| * wmarone runs over PackageKit's toes again | 01:03 | |
| djszapi | just check the memory output after 4 hours | 01:03 |
| djszapi | and you will see which application(s) cause(s) it and you can invoke valgrind afterwards | 01:03 |
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| niala | i think is chromium, or another application, if i do nothing he doesn't bug | 01:04 |
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| CosmoHill | niala: I think someone said chromium leaks like crazy | 01:04 |
| djszapi | lawl | 01:04 |
| djszapi | wmarone: pardon ? | 01:04 |
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| djszapi | and how can I install MeeGo on an sd card ? | 01:10 |
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| CosmoHill | properly install or just the live image | 01:11 |
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| niala | http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Install/Dual_Boot | 01:12 |
| djszapi | I would like to test my application, can I do that on liveimage ? | 01:12 |
| djszapi | it uses a ramfs I guess. | 01:12 |
| CosmoHill | you'd have to install it each time you boot | 01:12 |
| djszapi | k | 01:12 |
| niala | or chroot | 01:12 |
| CosmoHill | I ran something on meego last night | 01:13 |
| CosmoHill | after 3 hours it hasn't finished so I turned it off | 01:13 |
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| niala | and you have lost your work after turned it off ? | 01:13 |
| CosmoHill | sort of | 01:14 |
| djszapi | the problem is that I would like to develop on maemo in the daytime, but meego in leisure time :P | 01:14 |
| CosmoHill | the algorithm hadn't finished so there was no work to lose | 01:14 |
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| djszapi | and I would not like to buy two different mobile phones. | 01:14 |
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| wmarone | there are several guides on how to do it | 01:15 |
| djszapi | url ? | 01:15 |
| niala | ://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Install/Dual_Boot | 01:15 |
| niala | http | 01:15 |
| * wmarone wonders what happened to people investigating for themselves :/ | 01:15 | |
| CosmoHill | niala: did you miss http or are you pulling a funny face? | 01:15 |
| CosmoHill | wmarone: google | 01:15 |
| niala | http lol | 01:15 |
| djszapi | niala: ty | 01:16 |
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| niala | wmarone: yes but if everybody google what we do ? what are we living ;) | 01:16 |
| * wmarone grumbles at fedora being typically braindead | 01:16 | |
| CosmoHill | (if there's anything you'd like to add to the FAQ let me know) | 01:17 |
| djszapi | honestly, I did not know what to look for. | 01:18 |
| djszapi | thank you, really. | 01:18 |
| djszapi | if that will work | 01:18 |
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| djszapi | Warning: By following these instructions, you might cause damage to your N900 device. Make sure that you create a backup of your device before continuing. We do not take any responsibility for the damage that might be caused to your device. | 01:18 |
| djszapi | k, I think that is all then. | 01:18 |
| niala | CosmoHill: mp3? hollyday movies divx? | 01:19 |
| CosmoHill | if you have answers for me I'll add them :) | 01:19 |
| niala | ok 2s | 01:20 |
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| niala | CosmoHill: no mp3 because of license | 01:21 |
| niala | CosmoHill: in fact i know meego only with netbook i don't know the others | 01:21 |
| niala | 'all' is here http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=238 | 01:22 |
| CosmoHill | damn, it's my FAQ in a thread :o | 01:23 |
| niala | yep sorry lol you have just to copy/paste | 01:24 |
| CosmoHill | I think I'll leave it until I convert it to a wiki page | 01:25 |
| niala | you agree with me if i say we need a clear button link to the forum at index in meego.com ? | 01:25 |
| CosmoHill | clear? | 01:25 |
| niala | visible | 01:25 |
| CosmoHill | try this: quick links -> mark forum as read | 01:25 |
| CosmoHill | ah I see | 01:25 |
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| Nyceane | ello | 01:28 |
| Nyceane | i am freaking confused by nokia's naming scheme | 01:28 |
| djszapi | ? | 01:28 |
| Nyceane | I am wondering what is running on meego | 01:28 |
| Nyceane | i have downloaded QT sdk, but it doesn't seem to be the meego sdk | 01:28 |
| Nyceane | because it only runs maemeo | 01:28 |
| lpotter | there are no meego phones yet | 01:29 |
| djszapi | it is obviously not | 01:29 |
| CosmoHill | the Qt SDK is for Qt, there is a Meego SDK available on the website | 01:29 |
| niala | you need qemu or virtualbox or vmware to emulate meego and developp in | 01:30 |
| niala | Nyceane: | 01:30 |
| CosmoHill | or chroot | 01:30 |
| djszapi | chroot is not enough | 01:30 |
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| CosmoHill | Xyper? | 01:30 |
| djszapi | there is a need for Xephyr or something like that. | 01:30 |
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| niala | Nyceane: you are on linux, window$ or macintosh ? | 01:33 |
| niala | qnx ? bsd? | 01:33 |
| Nyceane | niala, i am on windows | 01:34 |
| djszapi | dos ? | 01:34 |
| niala | use virtualbox | 01:34 |
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| Nyceane | this is just getting more and more confusing -_- | 01:34 |
| Nyceane | why can't they have one OS, one SDK, that runs on bunch of phones lol | 01:34 |
| CosmoHill | what's life without variety | 01:35 |
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| lpotter | cause then nokia would be apple | 01:36 |
| Nyceane | nope, one OS that runs on "bunch" of nokia devices | 01:36 |
| Nyceane | apple only runs it on iPhone | 01:36 |
| lpotter | its called Symbian | 01:36 |
| Nyceane | QT is running C++ | 01:37 |
| jarkkom | I've found whole SDK situation is bit of a mess now unless you have N900 you can dedicate for app development | 01:37 |
| niala | Nyceane: http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_SDK_for_Windows_Installer | 01:37 |
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| niala | i haven't try this | 01:37 |
| jarkkom | links do not work, they point to intel's internal servers | 01:38 |
| lpotter | a mess? with the nokia qt sdk you can target maemo 5 and symbian phones. I am sure meego will be a target when phones are out | 01:38 |
| jarkkom | lpotter, I mean situation right now, with meego 1.1 & n900 PR1.3 coming out and wiki being edited constantly | 01:39 |
| lpotter | but there are no meego phones, only reference platforms | 01:39 |
| niala | just develop in qt and your app will work on meego | 01:40 |
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| dolppp | wondering if anyone actually have that meego sdk for windows installer file.. | 01:41 |
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| * brik pokes w00t_ to wave at sjokkis | 01:44 | |
| brik | say hi | 01:44 |
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| CosmoHill | hey brik | 01:45 |
| brik | hey CosmoHill :) | 01:45 |
| CosmoHill | how are you and how's your course going? | 01:45 |
| brik | I'm good, and course is going well as well I suppose, bit early to tell since semester just started :) how about you? | 01:46 |
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| CosmoHill | I'm on week 5 and starting to worry | 01:46 |
| CosmoHill | since worrying is much easier to do than the actual work which is causing me to worry | 01:46 |
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| brik | CosmoHill: heheh :) I'm only on week 4, I suspect the scary stuff starts in week 5 for me too ;p | 01:48 |
| CosmoHill | most of this year is scarying me for one reason or another | 01:49 |
| Nyceane | now, here is the question | 01:49 |
| Nyceane | there is no "imageview" | 01:49 |
| Nyceane | and after 2 hours of opening up the sdk and reading documentations | 01:49 |
| Nyceane | i still can't put a stupid image on the form | 01:50 |
| CosmoHill | I suspect you want #qt | 01:50 |
| Nyceane | thanks | 01:51 |
| sjokkis | what sort of course is this? | 01:51 |
| niala | Nyceane: you will show meego you must try .iso on usb stick or virtual environemt | 01:51 |
| wmarone | does meego use packagekit? | 01:51 |
| CosmoHill | sjokkis: Computing | 01:51 |
| sjokkis | in general? | 01:52 |
| CosmoHill | hold on | 01:52 |
| CosmoHill | sjokkis: http://www.anglia.ac.uk/ruskin/en/home/prospectus/ugft/g401.html | 01:53 |
| CosmoHill | most of the year 1 modules aren't the ones I did since they changed | 01:53 |
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| sjokkis | oh, i thought you were talking about a single subject | 01:54 |
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| CosmoHill | ah no sorry | 01:54 |
| niala | only computer? no history? language? litteracy? etc | 01:54 |
| * wmarone kills packagekit as punishment for idling on the yum lock | 01:55 | |
| brik | they usually contain a bit of history, languages etc | 01:56 |
| niala | ahh ok I m reassured | 01:57 |
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| * niala think he need english lesson | 01:57 | |
| CosmoHill | I've had enough for two people | 01:57 |
| niala | :) | 01:57 |
| brik | CosmoHill: this your final year or doing another year after? | 01:59 |
| CosmoHill | I'm in my 3rd year | 01:59 |
| CosmoHill | I might do a masters but that depends on a few things | 01:59 |
| brik | alright :) | 01:59 |
| CosmoHill | like the damn hung Parliament | 02:00 |
| * CosmoHill shakes fist | 02:00 | |
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| niala | european parliement ? | 02:01 |
| CosmoHill | UK | 02:01 |
| niala | why? | 02:02 |
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| CosmoHill | Tuition fees might be raised from £3250 to about £6500 per year | 02:04 |
| niala | x2 !! incredible | 02:06 |
| CosmoHill | I like DawnFoster's idea of going to a good company and getting them to pay for it :) | 02:06 |
| niala | scandalous | 02:06 |
| DawnFoster | CosmoHill: :) | 02:07 |
| niala | a good company like nokia or intel | 02:07 |
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| * CosmoHill pokes vgrade | 02:23 | |
| CosmoHill | vgrade: for 10 ~ 15 people it would cost £85 for a day or £65 for a half day, (1pm to ~ 5pm) | 02:24 |
| * niala water his bonsai | 02:24 | |
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| lcuk | CosmoHill, around #maemo theres another person going through university that I speak to (theres many who go but this guy I know), called Venemo - he is at a Hungarian univeristy and one of his course modules is a maemo/meego related one | 02:28 |
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| CosmoHill | ah cool | 02:30 |
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| vgrade | hi CosmoHill, been away | 02:30 |
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| vgrade | CosmoHill, do they do an evening rate | 02:31 |
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| CosmoHill | I don't know, I could ask | 02:32 |
| CosmoHill | what time do you have in mind? | 02:32 |
| vgrade | I'm not sure how many of the people on the list could make a daytime meet | 02:32 |
| CosmoHill | I wonder if my student parking disc will work...wait there are no car parks | 02:33 |
| vgrade | Cambridge sucks for parking I know | 02:34 |
| CosmoHill | you should see the chelmsford car park, they put a building on part of it | 02:35 |
| vgrade | I'm maxed out on the day job ATM, not looked at any of the work Termana and Smoku are doing on the MSM/QSD port | 02:35 |
| vgrade | I may get sometime over the weekend to chase some venues up | 02:36 |
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| Rydekull | Hrm, the wetab is booting extlinux/syslinux atleast | 02:55 |
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| * rittk dreams about a gun | 03:03 | |
| rtyler | pew pew pew | 03:04 |
| * CosmoHill gets hit | 03:04 | |
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| CosmoHill | x.x | 03:04 |
| rittk | looking to the code of some meego components and the code of the meegotouch... | 03:05 |
| rittk | now I'm unsure if I really want some meego-driven device | 03:05 |
| niala | why ? | 03:06 |
| rittk | ohh | 03:06 |
| CosmoHill | if you don't like something about it, contribute :) | 03:07 |
| rittk | these people doesn't know why and where the right const is needed, they uses qobject_cast w/o any checks... | 03:07 |
| rittk | this is a long list... | 03:07 |
| rittk | he | 03:07 |
| rittk | I cann't write the code while I'm so angry | 03:07 |
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| CosmoHill | while(rage) { sleep(1); } | 03:08 |
| niala | ah, I m too bad coder to understand | 03:08 |
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| rittk | s/1/3600/ | 03:09 |
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| CosmoHill | minutes? | 03:10 |
| niala | day | 03:10 |
| CosmoHill | ah | 03:10 |
| rittk | hour | 03:10 |
| rittk | contribute... | 03:11 |
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| rittk | I cann't fix them all | 03:12 |
| * niala give lemon tea to rittk for his nerves | 03:12 | |
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| lcuk | rittk, explain with a clear bug report including examples. allow others to review your findings and if valid we can work out how to collectively cure it | 03:13 |
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| lcuk | as with everything in meego :) | 03:13 |
| Rydekull | It just sounds that people need to understand why they shouldnt code in said way. Now, im not a coder either. But to fix the issue, start at the root of the problem | 03:14 |
| lcuk | Rydekull, sure, but at this point its just a rant about what may just be differing code stance :P | 03:14 |
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| Rydekull | lcuk: not sure if you noticed it, but I actually agreed with you about doing it in a structured manner :-P | 03:21 |
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| rittk | nobody will pay for that and I cann't waste all of my time to contributing to meego/meegotouch. I have an interesting contribution project that might became a part of Qt 4.8-4.9 - will care of it. | 03:24 |
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| smithna | could someone look at this http://pastebin.org/256591 and tell me if I should report it as a bug... | 03:30 |
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| niala | MThemeDaemon: Theme "meegite" does not exist! Not changing theme | 03:32 |
| niala | smithna: it's a bug about what ? your app? | 03:34 |
| smithna | I get those errors from any of the music/video/photo apps included with the recent ivii image | 03:38 |
| smithna | are you suggesting I am missing a package? | 03:38 |
| niala | which version of meego? netbook? | 03:38 |
| niala | ok | 03:38 |
| niala | sorry I don't know ivii | 03:38 |
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| smithna | the music/video/photo apps comes from netbook -- but have to added to ivi | 03:39 |
| smithna | s/have to added/have been added/ | 03:39 |
| infobot | smithna meant: the music/video/photo apps comes from netbook -- but have been added to ivi | 03:39 |
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| niala | it's like a meegotouch problem in netbook | 03:40 |
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| niala | smithna: http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=1516 post from ayanes | 03:41 |
| niala | but I m not a coder maybe I m wron | 03:42 |
| niala | g | 03:42 |
| smithna | It's worth examining | 03:43 |
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| CosmoHill | bye | 03:48 |
| pupnik | i have one of the best stereos in germany | 03:49 |
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| lcuk | rittk, nobody suggested you pay, but man up, if you believe there is an issue with the code, spend some time documenting it and offer clear examples both of where its wrong, and how you would try to fix it. | 03:52 |
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| niala | bye | 04:29 |
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| andrew__ | Does anybody knows that the differences between MCT and MNT? | 05:57 |
| andrew__ | are they all test tools or test case repository? | 05:57 |
| andrew__ | who can answer my question, this will be a huge help | 05:58 |
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| DEMNVT | Hi guys. How's it goin? | 06:06 |
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| andrew__ | what do you mean? | 06:06 |
| DEMNVT | How are you... :p | 06:07 |
| DEMNVT | Have read the requirements page on the website and just curious... will Meego run on older hardware or only on Atom based CPU's? | 06:07 |
| DEMNVT | ie.. if I have an old laptop with an Intel Pentium CPU etc | 06:08 |
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| chriadam | DEMNVT: i don't know for certain, but I believe at the moment it only supports Atom based CPUs (or ARM for the handset image). I could be wrong. | 06:14 |
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| Termana | DEMNVT, MeeGo supports CPU's that are SSSE3 compatible for x86 and armv7 for ARM. An old pentium would not fit these requirements. | 06:17 |
| DEMNVT | ok.. no worries. | 06:19 |
| DEMNVT | Thought that would be the case. | 06:19 |
| DEMNVT | Was just curious to see whether it would be a good replacement for the Windows XP install on the laptop at the moment as it's frightfully slow. Might just have to bight the bullet and buy wifey a new netbook :p | 06:20 |
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| kanibalv | hi | 06:38 |
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| djszapi | would not it be better to write a mail to him ? | 08:14 |
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| maitraya | Hi everyone, just wanted to ask, does MeeGo support Nvidia cards? | 11:47 |
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| Stskeeps | not at current state but once someone takes responsibility of the patches needed.. | 11:48 |
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| maitraya | Guys, I have an NVIDIA GeForce 9500 GT and Intel Core 2 Quad Q8400. Will meego run on my machine?? Help anyone. | 11:49 |
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| kedz | maitraya, hi, check this, maybe this helps : http://wiki.meego.com/User:Vljn#Meego_with_NVIDIA_hardware | 11:52 |
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| maitraya | Thanks | 11:52 |
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| thiago | maitraya: NVidia is supported if someone makes it supported | 11:53 |
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| maitraya | Thanks everyone for your help. | 11:54 |
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| dneary | thiago, Your offer is tempting... "We don't want to invest any more in maintaining this, so you do it"... | 12:08 |
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| thiago | dneary: we want to invest time in the proper solution | 12:08 |
| thiago | not in a hack that is dead-end | 12:08 |
| dneary | thiago, I can certainly understand if there's frustration with the transparency of module selection. For me too. | 12:08 |
| dneary | thiago, I do wonder how effective your messaging will be, thoughh | 12:09 |
| thiago | you don't understand the frustration in this whole multi-point touch thing... | 12:09 |
| thiago | we've been at it for 2 years | 12:09 |
| Stskeeps | fork Xorg? | 12:09 |
| Stskeeps | ;p | 12:09 |
| thiago | we've been waiting for x.org to support it for 2 years | 12:09 |
| RST38h | Good indication that it won't. | 12:09 |
| thiago | we've already written a hackish, temporary solution not once, but twice | 12:09 |
| thiago | I don't want to invest time in the current dead-end solution because I know it will only make the proper solution be even more delayed | 12:10 |
| Stskeeps | thiago: so what specific things in xorg is being waited on? | 12:10 |
| thiago | the input driver that delivers XInput 2.1 events | 12:11 |
| Stskeeps | does patches exist already? | 12:11 |
| thiago | the XInput 2.1 spec is still in draft because the discussions are dragging along | 12:11 |
| Stskeeps | ah, that kind of problem.. | 12:11 |
| thiago | the one person who could work on this says he'll only have time next year | 12:11 |
| thiago | which is fair enough, but I'm pretty sure both Intel and Nokia have x.org developers who could take the lead | 12:12 |
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| Stskeeps | worst case scenario: ask TSG for an exception to the upstream-first rule for Xorg to get the work n | 12:12 |
| Stskeeps | in | 12:12 |
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| thiago | there's no "upstream-first" solution right now | 12:13 |
| Stskeeps | exactly, hence patching meego xorg with a proper soluton | 12:13 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 12:13 |
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| thiago | so if MeeGo 1.2 wants touch support, it will need a patch somewhere | 12:13 |
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| thiago | I'm simply asking that we work towards XInput 2.1, not 2.0 | 12:13 |
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| Stskeeps | if the mail continues to be ignored, drag in the four horsemen (architects) to get a solution on the road | 12:15 |
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| thiago | next week I'm meeting with Canonical people who also want touch support | 12:15 |
| thiago | they are working in X.org | 12:15 |
| dneary | thiago, Escalate to TSG | 12:15 |
| thiago | so that's actually three companies that can do X.org development | 12:15 |
| thiago | (I actually have a fourth, but not at liberty to discuss) | 12:15 |
| Stskeeps | given enough push it should be possible.. | 12:16 |
| dneary | thiago, The architects are supposed to discuss & decide on things like this. Isn't there a Nokian architect? | 12:16 |
| thiago | my worry is that we'll be called upon to maintain that XInput 2.0 branch, while Canonical goes ahead and implements XInput 2.1 | 12:16 |
| thiago | without our input (no pun intended) | 12:16 |
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| thiago | then X.org 1.10 is out and doesn't work for our needs | 12:16 |
| thiago | dneary: there is a nokian architect. He's coming to Oslo tomorrow. | 12:16 |
| Stskeeps | well, two - sakari and mikko | 12:17 |
| Stskeeps | (core and handset) | 12:17 |
| thiago | sakari is coming | 12:17 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 12:17 |
| thiago | this is one of the subjects on the table for discussion | 12:17 |
| Stskeeps | should be productive then | 12:17 |
| dneary | It'd be cool if that kind of discussion could happen on meego-dev | 12:17 |
| dneary | and then the in-person meetings could just be about resolving final differences | 12:18 |
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| Stskeeps | dneary: as with anything, sometimes face to face meetings are the only way to make things move :/ | 12:18 |
| thiago | most of the discussion we'll have isn't about the meego releases, but about how the two entities inside Nokia cooperate to improve MeeGo | 12:18 |
| thiago | Qt and MeeGo join in the organisational hierarchy at the CTO level only | 12:18 |
| thiago | so this is not public discussion, it's internal organisation | 12:19 |
| thiago | but whatever comes out of the touch discussion I'll try to post | 12:19 |
| Stskeeps | well i guess the prime thing is that 'would xorg accept patches for xinput 1.2 if they come from someone else that can work on it this year' | 12:20 |
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| dneary | Stskeeps, I'm happy to have F2F meetings when you have a difference of opinion that needs to be hashed out & decided | 12:29 |
| dneary | But not to expose reasoning | 12:29 |
| dneary | Explain your position in public, resolve differences in person if necessary | 12:30 |
| dneary | Stskeeps, I looked at that Xorg release plan | 12:30 |
| dneary | Note that Xorg isn't the most reliable project... | 12:31 |
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| dneary | And there's no guarantee that the XInput patches will go in to 1.10 | 12:31 |
| dneary | And 1.10 isn't planned on being released until 02-11 | 12:31 |
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| dneary | So, to my untrained, uninformed eye, that looks like a major risk to a February release plan | 12:31 |
| thiago | which is the problem | 12:31 |
| thiago | but if the patches are accepted into X.org, we can backport them to 1.9, which is what we're using | 12:32 |
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| dneary | OK | 12:32 |
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| dneary | So there are patches in the proposal pipeline for 1.10? | 12:32 |
| thiago | at this point, I'm trying to get developers for writing the patch | 12:33 |
| piotr | I'm not able to execute qmake under debian ia32 inside the scratchbox 2, anyone with the same problem? | 12:33 |
| thiago | given that mtev exists and that we have 4 companies that want this "yesterday", we can find one devel to write | 12:33 |
| Stskeeps | piotr: we don't use sb2 in meego | 12:33 |
| Stskeeps | or sb | 12:33 |
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| piotr | true, my problem is with maemo, sorry | 12:34 |
| thiago | I've been trying to get this developer for 2 months now | 12:34 |
| thiago | so time is making the decision for me | 12:34 |
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| dneary | thiago, Sounds like that should be the starting point for me, no? | 12:36 |
| thiago | dneary: sorry? | 12:36 |
| dneary | Proposing a patch to Xorg that does things "the right way" for touch | 12:36 |
| thiago | yes | 12:36 |
| dneary | Having now jumped in to your defense (see list), I'm wondering what your proposed ideal plan of attack would be | 12:37 |
| dneary | Write a patch to support XInput 1.2 draft spec touch events, propose it for Xorg 1.10, get it accepted, have MeeGo 1.2 use Xorg 1.10? | 12:38 |
| thiago | 2.1, not 1.2 | 12:38 |
| thiago | write a patch that we can work with | 12:38 |
| thiago | we still need to develop the Qt counterpart to those touch events | 12:39 |
| thiago | I have two developers who can work on this, but there's nothing to test against | 12:39 |
| thiago | give me until tomorrow after the meeting with sakari | 12:40 |
| thiago | I think I can work with that fourth company to provide us the developer | 12:40 |
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| dneary | ok | 12:40 |
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| mihu | Hi. I'd like to try a recent MeeGo release on my N900. Now I'm confused which version I should try. What is the difference between 1.1.80.2.20101015.1 (the latest version I could find) and 1.0.99.2.20101015 (other people on the forum are referring to)? | 13:17 |
| Stskeeps | 1.0.99 is what you should go for, 1.1.80 is 1.2 release track | 13:17 |
| Stskeeps | 1.0.99 is 1.1 release track | 13:17 |
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| mihu | Stskeeps: Thanks. Is there a Wiki page about the different goals of the 1.1 and 1.2 tracks? | 13:18 |
| Stskeeps | 1.1 is getting released soon, 1.2 is the next version | 13:20 |
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| thiago | and getting released not-so-soon | 13:24 |
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| CosmoHill | hmm, 500 students and staff members but only 550 parking spaces, thank god I cycle | 13:32 |
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| CosmoHill | s/500/5000/ | 13:33 |
| infobot | CosmoHill meant: hmm, 5000 students and staff members but only 550 parking spaces, thank god I cycle | 13:33 |
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| alexbodn | hello friends, | 13:34 |
| alexbodn | i'd like to ask: would meego run on samsung galaxy tab or olivepad or notion ink adam? | 13:34 |
| alexbodn | they all run android | 13:35 |
| CosmoHill | if you can figure out how to boot meego and if it means the hardware requirements I don't see why not | 13:35 |
| alexbodn | CosmoHill: is there usually a method to boot another os? | 13:36 |
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| CosmoHill | I'm not familiar with tablet devices and I don't know what boot loader they use | 13:38 |
| CosmoHill | if they support USB boot that would be a good starting place | 13:38 |
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| Bostik | CosmoHill: as long as they have uboot that can read a kernel image from µSD and boot that, I'm game | 13:47 |
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| alexbodn | Bostik: CosmoHill: i thank you both. i'll check with that projects | 13:58 |
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| Tormis | how hard is it to get qml working in n900 running meego? | 14:09 |
| djszapi | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=35194 | 14:10 |
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| djszapi | and you can find a lot of videos on youtube about it, even kdepim. | 14:10 |
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| Stskeeps | Tormis: give it a try.. at leat glesv2 should be there | 14:11 |
| sunder | i m unable to download the mic code grom git.. has anyone been successful in doing so? has the paths changed? | 14:11 |
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| djszapi | http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-developer-tools/image-creator -> I do not think so. | 14:14 |
| djszapi | do you behind a proxy ? | 14:14 |
| sunder | no | 14:14 |
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| djszapi | did you try the http protocol ? | 14:14 |
| sunder | djszapi: i am following this http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/Creating_ARM_image_using_MeeGo_Image_Creator documentation | 14:15 |
| sunder | i have tried .. but let me try again | 14:15 |
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| sunder | djszapi: this command worked 'git clone git://meebo.gitorious.org/meego-developer-tools/image-creator.git' | 14:19 |
| sunder | :) | 14:19 |
| djszapi | k, good :) | 14:20 |
| djszapi | that is mentioned on the repo site. | 14:20 |
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| djszapi | meebo ? | 14:21 |
| djszapi | I hope that is just a typo :) | 14:21 |
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| sunder | yes | 14:22 |
| sunder | iubuntu@ubuntu:~$ git clone git://meebo.gitorious.org/meego-developer-tools/image-creator.git Initialized empty Git repository in /home/ubuntu/image-creator/.git/ remote: Counting objects: 3893, done. remote: Compressing objects: 100% (2030/2030), done. remote: Total 3893 (delta 2829), reused 2548 (delta 1800) Receiving ob | 14:23 |
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| djszapi | lawl, you should notify them then..I am not sure it is the expected url name :P | 14:24 |
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| sunder | ya .. | 14:25 |
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| sunder | :P | 14:26 |
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| CosmoHill | hey lcuk, did you hear that tomorrow CO meeting has been cancelled? | 14:35 |
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| lcuk | yes CosmoHill | 14:37 |
| hena | the usb port in n900 is on the wrong side of the phone :/ | 14:38 |
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| Jukka_ | hi | 14:44 |
| Jukka_ | so who | 14:44 |
| Jukka_ | 's coming to Tampere meetup today? | 14:45 |
| timakima | i might be coming | 14:45 |
| Jukka_ | cool | 14:46 |
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| Tormis | djszapi, Stskeeps: looks like a quite big job.. | 14:51 |
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| dolp | where should one find all these files from? http://bit.ly/aZS903 i couldnt find even half of them :P | 14:51 |
| iekku | uh, I didn't remember the meetup | 14:51 |
| Myrtti | Jukka_: I am, of course | 14:51 |
| Myrtti | please please please RSVP at the meetup | 14:52 |
| Myrtti | so Riussi_ etc. know how much drink and food they need to get | 14:52 |
| sx0n | Jukka_, where that meeting is? | 14:52 |
| Myrtti | http://www.meetup.com/Tampere-MeeGo-Network/calendar/14695050/ | 14:53 |
| Riussi_ | we've prepared for ~30 participants currently | 14:53 |
| Jukka_ | good I brough it up then :) | 14:53 |
| Riussi_ | but still time to adjust | 14:53 |
| Riussi_ | i'm getting the stuff at 5 p.m. | 14:53 |
| Jukka_ | anybody know where to get class 10 SDHC card? | 14:55 |
| RST38h | Jukka: Froogle? | 14:55 |
| pvuorela | where's that meetup held or do i need to finally sign up there to see it? :) | 14:56 |
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| Jukka_ | Myrtti, Riussi: OK to tell to pvuorela? :) | 14:59 |
| Myrtti | Jukka_: sure | 14:59 |
| Jukka_ | Protomo(Demola) Väinö Linnan aukio 15 Tampere | 14:59 |
| Jukka_ | but, please get into meetup.com also | 15:00 |
| Myrtti | yeah, I've paid for it :-D | 15:00 |
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| Myrtti | such an awful waste of moneys :-P | 15:00 |
| Jukka_ | RST38h, thanks looks like class 6 is best I can get from verkkokauppa etc. | 15:01 |
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| pvuorela | i'll try to. there were just all kinds of difficult questions, like who i am, that provided an excuse to postpone it :) | 15:05 |
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| Jukka_ | :) | 15:05 |
| Myrtti | pvuorela: I'm a geek with an interest | 15:05 |
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| Jukka_ | BTW, anybody able and willing to build a kernel and rootfs for beagle for me? | 15:06 |
| Myrtti | pvuorela: they're not mandatory questions, you can leave them blank or fill them with information that you deem important | 15:06 |
| Jukka_ | I have a tablet I'd like to get Meego on | 15:06 |
| Jukka_ | http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/Meego_on_Beagleboard_from_scratch | 15:06 |
| Myrtti | I have a phone I wish someone would flash with latest Android... *cough* | 15:06 |
| Noobmonk3y | lol | 15:06 |
| Myrtti | I don't mix and match... android devices as android devices and meego ones with meego | 15:07 |
| Myrtti | not that I have anything with meego, for that matter | 15:07 |
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| Myrtti | I'm taking my FlipCam with, btw | 15:08 |
| Myrtti | so I can record stuff if there's presentations | 15:09 |
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| Jukka_ | hehe | 15:09 |
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| Jukka_ | my tablet doesn't have a preferred OS | 15:09 |
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| dolp | Jukka_: if you need the card right away then no idea but atleast: http://www.jimmspc.fi/tuote/SDC10%2F16GB?t=false | 15:10 |
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| Jukka_ | dolp, yea I find it in verkkokauppa | 15:10 |
| Jukka_ | 30€.. | 15:10 |
| Myrtti | for previews of stuff I've recorded in the past: http://myrtti.blip.tv/ | 15:11 |
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| Jukka_ | if I end up in intermets, I won't come | 15:11 |
| Jukka_ | internets.. | 15:11 |
| Myrtti | well I'm pretty easy to spot, I'll point out where I'm leaving the camera, IF I end up recording anything | 15:12 |
| Myrtti | so you know where the camera is and can avoid it if you so wish | 15:12 |
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| Myrtti | and you can enjoy my first class English accent. | 15:13 |
| * sx0n enrolled | 15:14 | |
| dolp | finns are born to speak fluent english | 15:15 |
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| Bostik | too bad very few use the opportunity then | 15:15 |
| Myrtti | and I've been mistaken for a native speaker during the past three years so many times I've lost count. | 15:15 |
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| Myrtti | even by native speakers. | 15:15 |
| Myrtti | anyway, I can't decide should I leave for city center yet... | 15:17 |
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| Myrtti | right | 15:24 |
| Jukka_ | one thing I've noticed when working at Nokia, I don't even notice anymore when I speak english | 15:24 |
| Jukka_ | and I don't care how bad it sounds | 15:24 |
| lcuk | Jukka_, verkkokauppa have some cool toys | 15:26 |
| * lcuk saw amazingly cool big tvs | 15:26 | |
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| Jukka_ | yes they do, if I go there I probably end up buying a helicopter etc... | 15:26 |
| * lcuk did last week | 15:27 | |
| Jukka_ | and forget what I really needed | 15:27 |
| lcuk | oh, I checked out the stuff I wanted to too :P | 15:27 |
| * lcuk gave each multitouch computer the boobie test | 15:27 | |
| lcuk | only 1 passed :) | 15:27 |
| Jukka_ | tell me more :) | 15:27 |
| lcuk | Jukka_, there are now quite a few different multitouch computers on sale (most running win7 at POS) | 15:29 |
| lcuk | the technology on the allinones appears to be the same no matter the distributor | 15:29 |
| Jukka_ | what I've seen win7 sucks at multitouch | 15:29 |
| lcuk | I have a 20" Packard Bell allinone here at home | 15:29 |
| Jukka_ | though haven't really tried latest ones | 15:29 |
| lcuk | yeah well thats why I went round looking | 15:29 |
| Jukka_ | some kind of allinone would work nicely at home, kids could play and watch stuff from internet | 15:30 |
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| lcuk | to see if 6 months after I found boobie test failures whether any changes had been made | 15:30 |
| lcuk | Jukka_, yeah, my eldest now has a cool computer | 15:30 |
| Jukka_ | so tell me how do I do the boobie test, please | 15:30 |
| lcuk | hes very impressed with DVR functions and everything it does, but that detracts | 15:30 |
| lcuk | http://liqbase.net/liq.packard.bell.multitouch.boobies.fail.20100402_003.mp4 | 15:30 |
| lcuk | see that video | 15:30 |
| lcuk | if a computer fails the boobie test then multitouch is not working correctly :) | 15:31 |
| lcuk | (microsoft surface games are geared towards having players on different halves of the screen and fail/glitch when the problem occurs :) | 15:32 |
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| Jukka_ | oh, that sucks | 15:34 |
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| lcuk | incase you are interested, the one that passed was a HP 12" slate, that as well as having multitouch which seemed to work also had a stylus/pen :) | 15:34 |
| Jukka_ | ok, cool | 15:34 |
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| Jukka_ | lcuk, boobie test doesn't go down too well on an N8 :| | 15:39 |
| lcuk | :) | 15:40 |
| lcuk | Jukka_, try this one also | 15:41 |
| lcuk | http://liqbase.net/liq.packard.bell.confused.multitouch.20100329_006.mp4 | 15:41 |
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| lcuk | (this was the precursor to boobie test, when I had to hold camera with one hand ;) | 15:42 |
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| * CosmoHill head bangs his desk | 15:46 | |
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| Jukka_ | lcuk: argh | 15:47 |
| lcuk | Jukka_, yes I said the same when I realised | 15:48 |
| lcuk | I almost returned the computer because of it | 15:48 |
| lcuk | but then I discovered most in that class had same issue | 15:48 |
| lcuk | so just let my son have it (and now I am best dad in world for giving him an uber computer) | 15:49 |
| epx | :) | 15:49 |
| Rydekull | its the same with most phones aswell | 15:49 |
| Rydekull | running android etc | 15:49 |
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| lcuk | lbt_away, when you get back ping me | 15:55 |
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| * lcuk went round a fabric shop yesterday and closed eyes whilst feeling way across the racks of different materials. | 15:57 | |
| lcuk | was wonderful sensation and surprising to see the ones which felt nicest | 15:57 |
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| Lalloso | anyone knows anything about meego on Set Top Boxes? | 16:03 |
| thiago | Lalloso: ask your question instead of asking for someone | 16:04 |
| thiago | I know that MeeGo is supposed to run on STBs. Whether that's enough, we'll know only after you ask your question. | 16:04 |
| Lalloso | well that's my question really | 16:05 |
| Lalloso | i was interesting in what's the state of the art about this | 16:05 |
| Lalloso | since i found very little information on the internet | 16:05 |
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| Lalloso | could you point me in the right direction? | 16:05 |
| Lalloso | all i've found is about amino + intel | 16:06 |
| thiago | that's the direction | 16:07 |
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| Lalloso | I see | 16:08 |
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| Lalloso | and how meego would compete against for exemple google tv? | 16:08 |
| Lalloso | what are technological or theoretical advantages/disadvantages? | 16:09 |
| thiago | by selling devices | 16:09 |
| Stskeeps | Lalloso: real linux :P | 16:09 |
| thiago | if your cable TV gives you a MeeGo device and tells you that's what you have to use, why would you go and use something different? | 16:09 |
| thiago | Cable providers usually don't let you use other devices on their networks | 16:09 |
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| sx0n | Lalloso, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=63743 | 16:10 |
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| thiago | my VDSL provider gave me a Linux-based router to use on their network. Why would I go and use something different? | 16:12 |
| Lalloso | thiago but why cable providers should choose meego instead of anything else? | 16:12 |
| thiago | well, because STB manufacturers choose MeeGo and deliver the device | 16:12 |
| Lalloso | thiago: for example to have better features, performances or freedom | 16:12 |
| thiago | because of the app ecosystem (whatever an STB app is) | 16:12 |
| thiago | the STB manufacturer could also have the ability to customise the look-and-feel of the box | 16:12 |
| Lalloso | mmm and meego is expected to attract more developers than google tv? | 16:12 |
| thiago | we certainly expect to | 16:13 |
| Lalloso | i mean user apps are based on QT developers | 16:13 |
| Lalloso | are there so many of them? | 16:13 |
| thiago | put together not just STB, but handset, netbook, IVI | 16:13 |
| thiago | one big ecosystem of pure Linux, without Google control and with native apps | 16:13 |
| thiago | one big problem with Google TV and Android is Google | 16:14 |
| Lalloso | what do you mean? isn't Android open sourced? | 16:14 |
| Joppeffs | it is | 16:14 |
| thiago | open source != open control | 16:14 |
| Lalloso | meego isn't also purely community driven as far as i've understood | 16:14 |
| thiago | Solaris is open source. But see if anyone has a say in that. | 16:15 |
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| thiago | companies don't want to depend on Google making all the decisions | 16:15 |
| pupnik | then port android to linux | 16:15 |
| thiago | if they are given a technically-equivalent solution where they have more say, they'll jump on it | 16:15 |
| Lalloso | i guess that when you say companies in this case | 16:16 |
| thiago | and individuals | 16:16 |
| Lalloso | you mean hw suppliers | 16:16 |
| Lalloso | well individual developer usually develop for what give them more $$ | 16:16 |
| thiago | I mean all of them: ODMs as well as integrators | 16:16 |
| thiago | you're thinking of app developers. Yes, that is true there. To get those developers, we need to give them $$ but also better tools, easier tools and more future. | 16:17 |
| Lalloso | i don't understand meego in the end will have to compete with apple store and android market place of if those are completely different models as far as applications are concerned | 16:17 |
| thiago | I was thinking of system developers. Most of the people in this channel have no affiliation to Intel or Nokia. They are here because it's something they want to work on. | 16:17 |
| thiago | they're not making money by selling apps | 16:17 |
| Lalloso | thiago please don't consider my sentences as an offence, I once played with Nokia 770 with maemo and now have discovered meego I just want to understand what makes it different :) | 16:18 |
| thiago | they are influencing the platform, developing it | 16:18 |
| thiago | I'm not considering as offence, don't worry | 16:18 |
| Lalloso | ok :) | 16:18 |
| thiago | and the 770 is 5 years old... | 16:18 |
| Lalloso | I know but it was fun for that time | 16:18 |
| thiago | yeah, I had an N800 | 16:18 |
| thiago | still do, it's on my desk right now | 16:18 |
| thiago | decoration though. The N900 is in use, and something else. | 16:19 |
| thiago | anyway, the point is that meego is trying to be more open than android | 16:19 |
| Lalloso | in terms of licensing? | 16:19 |
| thiago | android is open source, but if you want to see where it's going, you need to go talk to google and a closed club | 16:19 |
| thiago | no, in terms of control and openness | 16:19 |
| thiago | meego is (supposed to be) developed in the open, everyone can see where it's going, anyone can join the development | 16:20 |
| Stskeeps | Lalloso: usually the development tree of next-android-version is closed except to the closed club | 16:20 |
| Lalloso | I see | 16:20 |
| Stskeeps | and well, if you want to see meego, repo.meego.com and gitorious | 16:20 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 16:20 |
| Lalloso | and what is the main difference against linux then? | 16:20 |
| thiago | MeeGo *is* LInux | 16:21 |
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| thiago | Linux | 16:21 |
| Lalloso | is a linux distro like openwrt? | 16:21 |
| thiago | yes | 16:21 |
| thiago | same model and same middleware as other Linux distributions, from desktops to laptops to servers | 16:21 |
| thiago | unlike Android, which is only the Linux kernel, with a completely different middleware | 16:21 |
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| Lalloso | and what do you consider the benefits of meego against competing linux distros? | 16:22 |
| thiago | I don't consider anything there because it's not competition | 16:22 |
| thiago | there aren't many linux distros of relevance going to the markets where meego is going | 16:23 |
| Stskeeps | Lalloso: basically desktop and laptop distros are horrible on handsets and other restricted-amount-of-power devices.. | 16:23 |
| thiago | another is the UI: it's being specially designed for those form-factors | 16:23 |
| thiago | touch-based, OpenGL-accelerated | 16:23 |
| dneary | DawnFoster, Ping? | 16:24 |
| dneary | DawnFoster, I happened onto a QA team meeting today | 16:24 |
| Stskeeps | qa tools | 16:24 |
| Lalloso | I see | 16:24 |
| Stskeeps | it's not on the schedule? they meet weeky and announce it and all | 16:24 |
| Stskeeps | (at least on irc) | 16:25 |
| Lalloso | therefore it's a matter of rendering and coupling the distro with the hardware | 16:25 |
| dneary | DawnFoster, And I had a word about the wiki. timoph, timakima and asinnela have committed to helping improve the situation | 16:25 |
| thiago | Lalloso: yes, in the broad sense | 16:25 |
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| Lalloso | but the target is still standard hardware like eg x86 or each device will have it's own target like in openwrt? | 16:25 |
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| thiago | netbooks have standard hw | 16:27 |
| thiago | outside of netbooks, it's rather different. Devices usually use SoC packages. | 16:27 |
| thiago | even x86-based handsets and STBs are quite different. | 16:27 |
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| thiago | no BIOS, for starters. | 16:27 |
| thiago | ARM-based netbooks, I have no clue what they have. | 16:27 |
| Lalloso | well they boot with uboot | 16:28 |
| thiago | the N900 has nolo | 16:28 |
| Lalloso | but I mean will meego have all the drivers for the different SoCs ? | 16:28 |
| thiago | that's up to the ODM | 16:29 |
| Lalloso | are the HW suppliers of the SoCs going to develop those kernel module by themselves or? | 16:29 |
| thiago | MeeGo has a few reference HW | 16:29 |
| Stskeeps | Lalloso: i think the target is stuff like meego-handset-omap3 etc | 16:29 |
| thiago | those are what the MeeGo project work on. Right now, it's the N900 (a TI OMAP3430), the Aava device (a Moorestown-based handset), plus standard netbook stuff | 16:29 |
| thiago | the ODMs will have to adapt to their hardware where they differ | 16:30 |
| thiago | hopefully, those modifications will make their way upstream, so they benefit all MeeGo users | 16:30 |
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| Lalloso | mmm I'm trying to understand how all the pieces fit into place | 16:30 |
| thiago | on the ARM side, Linaro is working to produce a common baseline, MeeGo benefits from that. | 16:30 |
| Lalloso | are those open hw like arduino? | 16:31 |
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| thiago | never heard of arduino | 16:31 |
| thiago | if you're an ODM or an integrator, you're buying HW from someone | 16:31 |
| thiago | either you develop the modifications, or your supplier does for you, or you won't use that HW | 16:31 |
| Lalloso | but that's true also nowadays | 16:32 |
| thiago | yes | 16:32 |
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| thiago | MeeGo will be sure to work with a few representative cases | 16:32 |
| Lalloso | it's the same as with openwrt either i buy a supported target with all the necessary modules already developed somewhere or... | 16:32 |
| thiago | plus Linaro's help plus the upstreaming, it should work well in a good variety of devices | 16:32 |
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| thiago | the MeeGo community cannot force HW makers to upstream their mods | 16:33 |
| Stskeeps | thiago: but we sure try ;) | 16:33 |
| thiago | yes | 16:33 |
| thiago | this is something that ODMs force by not buying that platform | 16:33 |
| thiago | and users by not buying those devices | 16:33 |
| thiago | suppose you're a handset maker and you want to use MeeGo Handset. You get this nice offer from an ARM supplier, with very low prices on volume. | 16:34 |
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| thiago | then you want to run MeeGo on it and it doesn't work. Your supplier gives you an incompatible Linux sysroot. | 16:34 |
| thiago | you ask your supplier for MeeGo and they say "no" | 16:35 |
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| thiago | you have two choices: you make MeeGo work ($$ you invest), or you can simply tell them "ok, we'll go talk to TI now" | 16:35 |
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| thiago | or ST-E | 16:35 |
| thiago | I know TI has MeeGo running on OMAP4 (or want to, at least). They're coming to the MeeGo Conference to talk about OMAP4. | 16:36 |
| Lalloso | is meego something comparable to mobilnux montavista? | 16:37 |
| thiago | this has happened to Android too. The ARM chip makers have invested development to make Android work on their chips. | 16:37 |
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| Stskeeps | Lalloso: in a nutshell meego's a standard linux os at core that's optimized for power-saving environments.. on top of that there's a lean and mean qt architecture + qt mobility stack and then on top of that, UX'es suited for various purposes | 16:38 |
| Stskeeps | Lalloso: for atom and armv7 | 16:38 |
| Lalloso | so i could go and download the development environment for atom? | 16:39 |
| Stskeeps | right - sdk's still in works but it would be qt creator centric | 16:39 |
| Stskeeps | app sdk, that is | 16:39 |
| Lalloso | or maybe for the promising CE 4100 Intel? | 16:39 |
| Lalloso | if i've understood well if Intel won't finalize the "middleware development" for such a platform | 16:40 |
| Lalloso | there would be no purpose to use the APP sdk QT based on top of it right? | 16:40 |
| Stskeeps | such a platform being STB? | 16:41 |
| Lalloso | or anything else? I mean this is a sort or atom based SOC | 16:41 |
| Lalloso | http://www.intelconsumerelectronics.com/Smart-TV/CE4100-Announcement.aspx | 16:41 |
| Lalloso | don't want to spam, just to provide a real example | 16:41 |
| Stskeeps | that likely runs mego | 16:41 |
| Stskeeps | meego | 16:41 |
| Stskeeps | or can, that is | 16:42 |
| Stskeeps | and with the power of qt and so on you can build your own ux too | 16:42 |
| Lalloso | okay | 16:43 |
| Lalloso | and what are then those UX'es already available out of the boxes? a bunch of QT applications? | 16:43 |
| djszapi | thiago: how did you build KDE on your meego netbook, from source ? | 16:44 |
| Lalloso | or a recompilation of e.g. VLC? | 16:44 |
| Stskeeps | Lalloso: IVI is a desktop based upon qt, handset is built upon the meego touch framework (a qt framework) | 16:44 |
| * shadeslayer is looking forward to seeing thiago @ UDS | 16:44 | |
| Stskeeps | Lalloso: netbook's the exception as that's clutter/mutter and gtk based | 16:45 |
| matrixx | I'm going to be a bit late from the meetup today | 16:46 |
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| matrixx | I'm almost double booked, but the travel time will make me 5-10 minutes late | 16:46 |
| jarkkom | it'll be interesting to see what happens in TV/setbox space as many of them are already arm/linux based (all sony and samsung ones at least) and getting something like meego there wouldn't be that costly apart from extra flash and memory | 16:48 |
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| Lalloso | Stskeeps: concerning CE4100 do you mean that all the drivers and middleware is already available in the meego distribution? or is that something which I can see if I only buy the hw platform? | 16:50 |
| Stskeeps | Lalloso: that's a good question | 16:50 |
| Stskeeps | Lalloso: i don't know, actually - i know it is for gfx on many devices, that is | 16:50 |
| Stskeeps | at least | 16:50 |
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| jarkkom | middleware probably would have to be redesigned to be usable with remote | 16:51 |
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| jarkkom | oops meant ux | 16:51 |
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| Stskeeps | Lalloso: i'm personally on the meego ARM side of things, so i don't know much about atom side :) | 16:52 |
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| Lalloso | and how does it work on the ARM side? can i buy for example a seagate dockstar and runs meego on it how of the box? or should meego comes from seagate? :) | 16:57 |
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| Stskeeps | Lalloso: still a developing area but generally what we try to go towards is that we have platform ports, so we would have a base kickstart for meego-handset-armv7l-omap3 | 16:58 |
| Stskeeps | and that would include the needed bits for the SoC or you can buy/license additional parts from the soc vendor | 16:58 |
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| Lalloso | mmm but after i've bought the additional part from the soc vendor for let's say an FXS port of an access gateway | 16:59 |
| Lalloso | would that driver fall into baseline and will be available for all? | 16:59 |
| Stskeeps | well, that's of course up to the soc vendor but i think anything needs to be in upstream.. | 17:00 |
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| Stskeeps | i think there's many areas of business not explored yet :) | 17:00 |
| thiago | djszapi: from source | 17:00 |
| thiago | djszapi: I actually built it on my Mandriva workstation then rsync'ed the build | 17:01 |
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| slaine | Lalloso: Stskeeps re the STB stuff, those intel CE 4100 SoC's are looking impressive | 17:02 |
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| slaine | I saw a MeeGo powered OTT box at IBC | 17:02 |
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| Lalloso | in fact they seem good hw to me but I'm wondering how things are supposed to be | 17:03 |
| Lalloso | if every driver is already developed by Intel | 17:03 |
| Lalloso | but it's not in meego upstream | 17:03 |
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| Lalloso | I would face the problem of updates and keeping in sync with latest git | 17:04 |
| Lalloso | as it is today with openwrt and similar hw | 17:04 |
| Lalloso | I'm downloading meego-netbook-ia32-1.0.80.12.20100727.1-sdk-pre0901.raw.tar.bz2 | 17:04 |
| slaine | that's an old one | 17:04 |
| CosmoHill | hey slaine | 17:05 |
| slaine | 1.0.99 is the imminent 1.1 release. | 17:05 |
| slaine | CosmoHill: hey buddy, how's it going | 17:05 |
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| CosmoHill | up and down | 17:05 |
| Lalloso | well that's what in the "getting started wiht meego" | 17:05 |
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| CosmoHill | at the moment I'm doing some alorthigm work for uni which requires a lot of processing power | 17:06 |
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| djszapi | thiago: lawl | 17:13 |
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| * lcuk struggles to collate and present multiple sourced digital information into a nice travel report | 17:21 | |
| * lcuk seeks automation | 17:22 | |
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| CosmoHill | isn;t there a wish list of meego apps? | 17:23 |
| RST38h | lcuk <-- needs a secretary | 17:23 |
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| lcuk | RST38h, !!! yes | 17:23 |
| awayfar | fandeli: Did that new kernel work for you? | 17:24 |
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| lcuk | CosmoHill, theres one app i have wanted to write for a while which would be nice to see, i have all the digital media for it too, but my fingers are tired nowadays | 17:27 |
| lcuk | wheres the wishlist page and I might start making notes about it | 17:27 |
| CosmoHill | on the wiki somewhere | 17:27 |
| CosmoHill | ask Myrtti | 17:27 |
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| fandeli | awayfar: yet doing the copying to SD :P | 17:43 |
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| fandeli | awayfar: I had to create new FS again, I had commented some packages for X11 | 17:48 |
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| qgil | dneary: hi, about your email with concerns on the architecture process: http://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=7323 | 18:54 |
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| dneary | qgil, Thanks for the pointer. | 18:54 |
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| dneary | qgil, In fact, I was talking to Thiago earlier, and he mentioned that the Nokia architects will be visiting Qt this week, and this issue is on the agenda. In fact, that's what set off alarm bells. | 18:55 |
| qgil | dneary: one vote is not much but if you can vote... btw I'm not getting more answer than you :) | 18:55 |
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| dneary | qgil, Still haven't gotten into the hbit of voting for bugs | 18:56 |
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| dneary | But you have my vote | 18:56 |
| dneary | qgil, I'll also point to Thiago's email in the archives as evidence :) | 18:56 |
| dneary | Having talked about it with him afterwards, there's no easy solution to the problem either | 18:56 |
| qgil | dneary: honestly I don't know what is stopping Arjan, Sakari etc moving to open work - even if keeping all the calls and face to face discussions they have to run faster | 18:57 |
| dneary | Xorg 1.10 won't be out until February, which is (IMHO) too late to be included in MeeGo 1.2 | 18:57 |
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| qgil | dneary: I'm not talking about the Xorg problem (I have nothing to say about architecture decisions) but about the process itself | 18:57 |
| qgil | the MeeGo architecture is quite consolidated now and we can avoid the rpm/deb kind of discussions of the first days | 18:58 |
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| hena | is there a meego sdk in the repos as a yum package? | 18:59 |
| * thiago hears his name | 18:59 | |
| thiago | dneary: I meant that the ASF and MeeGo Computers discussion is on the table | 19:00 |
| thiago | it has little to do with the external MeeGo work | 19:00 |
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| thiago | and Sakari has now answered on the X.org thing | 19:01 |
| thiago | if we're stuck with X.org 1.9, now I need to figure out if the XInput 2.1 work can be backported | 19:01 |
| hena | ok, i guess it was a stupid question, sorry :) | 19:02 |
| Stskeeps | hena: not yet, i think | 19:02 |
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| hena | allrighty | 19:02 |
| hena | would like to dev with my meego netbook, i guess i'll make a package out of it too, then | 19:03 |
| dneary | thiago, Just saw Sakari's answer | 19:03 |
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| dneary | That said, I really don't hold out much hope that your "this is a hack, we don't want to maintain it, someone else take care of it" invitation will be accepted by anyone without them being forced to take it on :) | 19:04 |
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| thiago | someone will have to maintain it | 19:05 |
| thiago | we don't want to because we've been asking for a proper, upstream X.org implementation for 2 years now | 19:06 |
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| thiago | dneary: sakari has probably posted that reply from the Helsinki airport or from Oslo already | 19:12 |
| dneary | thiago, :) | 19:12 |
| dneary | I understand you don't want to maintain it. But it's code going on devices, and if there are bugs in it, someone will have to fix it | 19:13 |
| dneary | I just don't think you're going to see a stream of unpaid volunteers stepping up to the plate | 19:13 |
| thiago | that's exactly the problem | 19:13 |
| thiago | I know this is going to come back to us | 19:13 |
| thiago | I'm trying to get people to move to the proper solution that we will need to support anyway | 19:14 |
| berndhs | thiago: doesn't this mean there is nothing commercial for at least a year ? so no target platforms, other than hobbyist stuff ? | 19:15 |
| thiago | berndhs: no | 19:15 |
| thiago | that means we're going to be forced to support the hack for a year | 19:16 |
| thiago | commercially | 19:16 |
| berndhs | ah | 19:16 |
| Bostik | yuck | 19:16 |
| thiago | so from "let's do multi-point touch support for Maemo" to "we have a solution released", it will be close to 3 years | 19:16 |
| Bostik | forward-porting any "new" or "own" stuff in a year would be just awful | 19:16 |
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| Bostik | add the standard inertia + red tape -> "can't be bothered" -> two years down the line the problem is only magnified :/ | 19:17 |
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| thiago | Robot101: ping | 19:22 |
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| hena | so the rule is that the app is qt, or it wont see daylight? | 19:38 |
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| shadeslayer | hena: yes | 19:41 |
| shadeslayer | :P | 19:41 |
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| CosmoHill | i think GTK is also supported but don't quote me on that | 19:42 |
| auke | don't count on it being present | 19:43 |
| auke | on handset etc. it won't | 19:43 |
| Stskeeps | morn auke | 19:44 |
| hena | sigh... :) | 19:44 |
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| hena | of course it makes sense, just really dislike qt :D | 19:44 |
| Robot101 | thiago: pong | 19:44 |
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| hena | umm, what's up with the :'s in url/file names? :) | 19:51 |
| CosmoHill | cyas | 19:51 |
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| Stskeeps | auke: will pull 128kb fix from 1.2 in the morning | 19:54 |
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| sivang | auke: wouldn't be supported on Harmattan? | 19:55 |
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| sivang | auke: for backward compatilibyt with Gtk apps? | 19:55 |
| sivang | legacy of Maemo.. | 19:55 |
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| thiago_home | hena: starting with : ? | 19:57 |
| hena | ending | 19:57 |
| thiago_home | hena: ending in : ? | 19:58 |
| * thiago_home has never seen that | 19:58 | |
| hena | like download.meego.com/live/devel:/tools:/... | 19:58 |
| * lcuk noticed :s in use in obs and shuddered | 19:58 | |
| Stskeeps | hena: obs related | 19:58 |
| thiago_home | ah, in OBS | 19:58 |
| lcuk | thiago_home, they end up on the filesystem though afaik | 19:58 |
| thiago_home | Adrian or Cornelius may have wanted to make it impossible to use on Windows when they designed OBS :-) | 19:59 |
| * lcuk considers colons in filenames like spaces in sql field names ;) | 19:59 | |
| hena | yeah, that's quite horrid | 19:59 |
| hena | it seemed like there was alternatives without them, but still | 19:59 |
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| auke | sivang: harmattan != meego | 20:10 |
| auke | I now nothing about harmattan | 20:10 |
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| alterego | I'm trying to build a basic meego touch app using madde | 21:40 |
| alterego | I'm getting mmoc not found error, anyone know what's up? | 21:40 |
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| alterego | Oh, well that worked :D | 21:43 |
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| Myrtti | lolwhat | 22:04 |
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| rittk | who manages the meego netbook kernel? | 22:05 |
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| auke | rittk: arjan, why? | 22:41 |
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| andre__ | wasn't there a wikipage listing the logo guidelines, having the logo as svg, and all these cute little colorful people everywhere? | 22:54 |
| Stskeeps | sure, sec | 22:54 |
| Stskeeps | http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_Style_Guide | 22:54 |
| andre__ | yay, damn it. just when asking after searching for 10min I also found it, grumble | 22:54 |
| andre__ | thanks anyway :) | 22:54 |
| RST38h | don't tell me those square midgets are a requirement | 22:55 |
| Stskeeps | oh, right, november is coming up.. | 22:55 |
| auke | infobot: style is See http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_Style_Guide, a guide about using the MeeGo style in the right way. | 22:55 |
| infobot | ...but style is already something else... | 22:55 |
| andre__ | Stskeeps: Yupp, and as I withdrew my talk withdrawal I now even have to prepare something, but I have an evil idea. ;-) | 22:56 |
| RST38h | OMG they are a requirement... | 22:56 |
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| Stskeeps | andre__: 'bugmonkey wanting to be bugmaster', with a monkey and a wizard clipart? | 22:57 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 22:57 |
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| andre__ | cliparts! now I got an idea... :-P | 22:58 |
| rittk | auke: want to ask related question/help with fine-tuning | 22:59 |
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| rittk | *wanted | 22:59 |
| auke | ~style | 23:00 |
| infobot | it has been said that style is what QT has, see themes | 23:00 |
| auke | infobot: logostyle is See http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_Style_Guide, a guide about using the MeeGo style in the right way. | 23:00 |
| infobot | okay, auke | 23:00 |
| auke | rittk: anything specific? what fine-tuning do you need? | 23:00 |
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| rittk | auke: for example, why the Pentium-M is selected as expected processor type while meego supports atom-based processors (afair) | 23:08 |
| auke | that just optimizes the right way for atom/core2 | 23:09 |
| rittk | isn't Atom is a better option there? | 23:10 |
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| rittk | *Intel Atom | 23:10 |
| rittk | argh. -is | 23:11 |
| auke | I think they're mostly the same anyway, but sure, perhaps that's better | 23:11 |
| auke | care to send a patch/bugzilla? | 23:11 |
| rittk | MR ? | 23:12 |
| auke | MR? | 23:12 |
| rittk | merge request | 23:13 |
| Stskeeps | patch is probably best for kernel, MR and SR's are routinely rejected | 23:13 |
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| thiago_home | SR? | 23:13 |
| auke | either that or bugzilla will work | 23:13 |
| Stskeeps | thiago_home: submitreq | 23:13 |
| Stskeeps | and to meego-kernel, lists.meego.com has a page for meego-kernel contribution guidelines | 23:13 |
| Stskeeps | thiago_home: .. you really need a OBS account one day :) | 23:13 |
| auke | hehe | 23:13 |
| thiago_home | Stskeeps: I wouldn't know what to do with it | 23:14 |
| Stskeeps | thiago_home: it's a way to indicate you'd like a package to be sent to a new project, like Trunk:Testing, or patches to a package | 23:14 |
| Myrtti | grour | 23:14 |
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| Stskeeps | http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-commits/2010-October/date.html , SR#7985 would mean the 'commit' in question | 23:15 |
| rittk | give me a link to the meego-kernel contribution guidelines plz | 23:15 |
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| thiago_home | auke: who's responsible for Mobility at Intel? | 23:16 |
| Stskeeps | rittk: http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_kernel_documentation_for_contributors | 23:16 |
| Stskeeps | infobot, meego-kernel-contrib is http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_kernel_documentation_for_contributors | 23:16 |
| infobot | Stskeeps: okay | 23:16 |
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| auke | thiago_home: Mobility? | 23:17 |
| thiago_home | Qt Mobility | 23:17 |
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| rittk | oh | 23:17 |
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| rittk | XXI century | 23:17 |
| rittk | patches via mailing lists | 23:18 |
| * thiago_home sent an email to hillarie yesterday to get a meeting organised but hasn't got a reply | 23:18 | |
| thiago_home | rittk: trying to get that for Qt too | 23:18 |
| auke | thiago_home: talk to kaitlin in #meego-dev | 23:18 |
| auke | depending on what you need she can help I bet | 23:18 |
| thiago_home | thanks | 23:18 |
| * thiago_home sees kaitlin_ here and in #qt too | 23:18 | |
| auke | rittk: yeah, finally things are they way they should be | 23:18 |
| rittk | well, another one: why debug is turned on as well as some tracers ? | 23:19 |
| Myrtti | I guess I should do something with the videos I shot today at the meetup | 23:19 |
| Myrtti | but I'm so tiiiiired | 23:19 |
| auke | rittk: needed for several tools critical for making MeeGo a success | 23:20 |
| rittk | as a temporary solution? | 23:20 |
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| rittk | brb | 23:21 |
| auke | until we deem it no longer necessary. However it's likely that ftrace will remain enabled in the long run. | 23:21 |
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| Stskeeps | auke: is sysstat (http://sebastien.godard.pagesperso-orange.fr/features.html ) packaged anywhere? | 23:22 |
| auke | no | 23:23 |
| auke | sysprof we have | 23:23 |
| Stskeeps | k | 23:23 |
| Stskeeps | which we need to port to arm i seem to recall.. | 23:23 |
| auke | for sar? | 23:24 |
| Stskeeps | no, in general, there's a compile error with sysprof | 23:24 |
| auke | bugzilla? | 23:24 |
| Stskeeps | none yet | 23:24 |
| auke | hehe | 23:25 |
| Stskeeps | i was looking at the problem at some point but not finding any conclusions | 23:25 |
| Stskeeps | i think it's a pretty nice thing that we can honestly say there's only 3 packages that FTBFS for arm in meego 1.1 | 23:25 |
| Stskeeps | (core) | 23:25 |
| Stskeeps | opencv, samba and sysprof | 23:26 |
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| rittk | auke: I see | 23:44 |
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| rittk | what about meegotouch contribution model? should I use some mailinglist to contribute to it? | 23:45 |
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| Stskeeps | rittk: they take MR's i think | 23:45 |
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