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| lbt | Khertan_: mmm yeah | 00:02 |
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| CosmoHill | cyas | 00:04 |
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| lbt | http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/1.0.90/1.0.90.4.20100928.1/ | 00:06 |
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| lbt | Khertan_: running the sync script... | 00:08 |
| Khertan_ | nice | 00:08 |
| Khertan_ | thx | 00:08 |
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| stephg | can I bend anyone's ears about a new bug and it's categorisation? | 00:34 |
| stephg | (as alot of the EUians will have gone to bed by now...) | 00:34 |
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| GAN900 | stephg, toss it out there and see if anyone bites. | 00:39 |
| stephg | I found felipec in #meego-arm | 00:40 |
| stephg | I bend his ear :) | 00:40 |
| stephg | just a bug categorisation issue, is not big | 00:40 |
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| GAN900 | Nice email, more confusion for the hotel issue. . . . | 03:16 |
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| John5 | Question: Would it be feasible to stick MeeGo on a bootable USB/SD card to run on a tablet? Kind of like a LiveCD kind of thing for netbooks. | 03:44 |
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| vkvraju | hi all | 06:05 |
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| Steveb_ | hi does anyone know how to compile meego | 08:03 |
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| achipa | hah, the plot thickens ! ... We have been looking into the Visa Invitation Letters for the MeeGo conference. Due to the requirements from the Irish Consulate that we could not meet, we are forwarding on any requests for Visa Invitation Letters... | 10:17 |
| Stskeeps | hmm? | 10:17 |
| Stskeeps | that's from who? | 10:18 |
| Stskeeps | and what is 'forwarding on'? | 10:18 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 10:18 |
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| achipa | I'm the problem child with the wrong bird on the passport, so I get pingponged a bit :) | 10:20 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, but it's .. bad if the visa stuff is messed up | 10:20 |
| Stskeeps | cos there's a bigger portion of speakers who'd need that | 10:21 |
| achipa | oh, it's not messed up, it's *about* to get messed up :P | 10:21 |
| Stskeeps | cos it takes 4-8 weeks normally | 10:22 |
| achipa | that's why I said 'about to' :) plus we don't have sponsorhip results... fun all around :) | 10:23 |
| Ronksu | 4-8 weeks? For real? | 10:23 |
| Ronksu | I would have expected visa stuff to be 1-2 weeks (don't need one myself though) | 10:24 |
| Ronksu | also the hotel reservation site seems to be down ;) | 10:24 |
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| achipa | Ronksu: that's what they say, but I guess depends on the country/particular case, too | 10:26 |
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| Stskeeps | achipa: should probably poke amy on the issue.. | 10:28 |
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| achipa | Stskeeps: in fact, I'll poke... Jaffa :) | 10:37 |
| Stskeeps | or that | 10:37 |
| Stskeeps | i vote for a EU country next time | 10:37 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 10:37 |
| Stskeeps | ie, schengen | 10:37 |
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| dm8tbr | Stskeeps: yes important difference, schengen != eu :) | 10:46 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 10:46 |
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| thiago_home | schengen = eu - IE - UK + NO + CH + IS + lichtenstein | 10:47 |
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| * Stskeeps just hopes this doesn't end up in a visa fiasco on conference | 10:47 | |
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| Jaffa | Morning, all | 10:58 |
| Jaffa | Stskeeps: We had visa fun in a Schengen country (.nl) last year | 10:59 |
| Jaffa | achipa: Who'd you get that email from? | 10:59 |
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| sx0n | is there somewhere any specs of WeTab, which Qt it has? | 11:13 |
| Stskeeps | meego 1.0 ased | 11:13 |
| Stskeeps | based | 11:13 |
| Stskeeps | so 4.6 probably | 11:13 |
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| sx0n | probably same that n8/e7 have then. | 11:16 |
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| sx0n | does it have Qt Mobility? | 11:17 |
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| achipa | Jaffa: Jacynth Roberts | 11:23 |
| Stskeeps | company? | 11:23 |
| achipa | linuxfoundation | 11:24 |
| achipa | if that counts as a company :) | 11:24 |
| Stskeeps | ah | 11:24 |
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| achipa | Jaffa: wait until next year - there were ideas that meego conferences should alternate between Europe and the Americas :) | 11:24 |
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| achipa | I can just hope that means Canada and not the US otherwise we'll get to know a whole new level of fun :) | 11:25 |
| achipa | sx0n: should have, 1.0.2 most likely | 11:26 |
| sx0n | achipa, ok, thanks. | 11:26 |
| Jaffa | achipa: No more PDF reverse engineering then | 11:26 |
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| achipa | doesn't mean it actually *works* though :) | 11:27 |
| achipa | (with regard to various backends and all) | 11:28 |
| * sx0n is thinking porting app to webtab. | 11:28 | |
| Stskeeps | got a wetab? | 11:28 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 11:28 |
| sx0n | no, that's why i am asking | 11:28 |
| sx0n | :) | 11:29 |
| Stskeeps | ah | 11:29 |
| sx0n | qt everywhere, it should work if we just compile it ;) | 11:29 |
| achipa | no, that saying goes like this: if it compiles, ship it ! :P | 11:30 |
| achipa | (I kid, I kid) | 11:30 |
| sx0n | achipa, do you happen to know does it include webkit? | 11:30 |
| w00t_ | achipa: you'd be surprised just how many people have attitudes like that that aren't kidding | 11:30 |
| Stskeeps | sx0n: they have a repo up somewhere, check the channel logs here for wetab | 11:31 |
| Stskeeps | sx0n: so you can check for yourself | 11:31 |
| achipa | sx0n: no idea. though should have, 4.6 had it bundled everywhere | 11:31 |
| TermanaN900 | w00t_, well, Linus says if it compiles, it's good, if it boots it's perfect - so :P sounds like a great attitude :P | 11:32 |
| w00t_ | TermanaN900: booting implies testing, so that's ok | 11:32 |
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| achipa | Linus' users are people who work with the code/stuff, which is very different from most real life scenarios :) | 11:33 |
| achipa | btw anyone know when Niels will be back ? | 11:33 |
| TermanaN900 | w00t_, why test when you can have everyone else do it for you ;) (I'm kidding, btw) | 11:33 |
| w00t_ | TermanaN900: :-) | 11:34 |
| achipa | TermanaN900: ah, the 'measure breakage by number of posts on talk' criteria :D | 11:34 |
| sx0n | we had our share of fun when we tried to do qt sw for n8 out of the blue. | 11:35 |
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| sx0n | Stskeeps, thanks for tip, i try to reverse engineer some information of it. quick googling did not told much. | 11:37 |
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| sx0n | but apparently any meego device will do. | 11:40 |
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| sx0n | matrixx, o/ | 11:43 |
| matrixx | o/ | 11:44 |
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| sx0n | matrixx, we could test with n900 that runs meego. it might work | 11:55 |
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| matrixx | sx0n: sure, let's see in which shape the N900 port is | 12:02 |
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| sx0n | matrixx, should be reference device for meego, if that means something | 12:04 |
| matrixx | sx0n: sure | 12:05 |
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| Saviq | hi all, according to http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_Conference_2010#Sponsored_participants the first round of sponsorship approvals should be already out, has that actually happened? | 13:02 |
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| Appy | anyone know if there's any key bindings for ivi home menu so I can operate it from something other than a mouse or touchscreen? | 13:40 |
| Stskeeps | thought there's supposed to be like 'wheel' stuff | 13:41 |
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| Appy | yeh that's what I want to do. Where can I find info on that? | 13:42 |
| Stskeeps | check the sources for ivihome | 13:42 |
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| Appy | I was - couldn't spot how it's done. I shall examine in a bit more detail | 13:45 |
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| Appy | ok I found it. Guess I should look closer before I ask next time :) | 13:50 |
| Appy | http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-ivi-ux/ivihome/blobs/master/taskwindow.cpp | 13:50 |
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| Appy | and looks like it has support for this too http://retail.contourdesign.com/?/products/22 | 13:54 |
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| dcthang | hi all | 13:55 |
| dcthang | anybody knows how to check version of Meego?:-) | 13:56 |
| Tumi_ | cat /etc/issue | 13:57 |
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| dcthang | it works, thanks Tumi_ | 14:00 |
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| trupheenix | devanjan were u attending the all hands? | 14:14 |
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| DrMon | Hmm, can anyway point me to the main differences between android and Meego? Or is it just another reincarnation of the same concept? | 14:27 |
| Stskeeps | real gnu linux vs not? ;) | 14:27 |
| DrMon | Heh, people keep saying that. What's non-gnu about android? | 14:28 |
| Stskeeps | well, let's start with bionic libc ;) | 14:28 |
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| DrMon | (Genuine question, I don't know!) | 14:28 |
| thiago | DrMon: *everything* is different in Android | 14:29 |
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| thiago | the only thing that is common is the Linux kernel, and even then it's modified | 14:30 |
| slaine | and those mods aren't pushed upstream with much enthusiasm | 14:30 |
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| ieatlint | more like upstream doesn't receive them with enthusiasm | 14:31 |
| ieatlint | no one can claim google doesn't comply with the gpl | 14:31 |
| thiago | complying with the letter doesn't mean complying with the spirit | 14:31 |
| DrMon | YEah, I know all about that >.> heh, android kernel coding is dodgy. I've been doing some USB work in the kernel a little while ago | 14:31 |
| ieatlint | but android (and some other embedded devices, such as webos) push the point home that linux as is commonly known is gnu/linux | 14:32 |
| thiago | the kernel community accepts patches, provided they're good | 14:32 |
| ieatlint | and android is not gnu/linux | 14:32 |
| DrMon | Their USB gadget driver doesn't unload easily, and when it does, it doesn't reload later. Just hacky coding | 14:32 |
| ieatlint | thiago: good enough to run on millions production systems? :P | 14:32 |
| ieatlint | you can argue semantics all you want | 14:32 |
| ieatlint | don't criticise a company that has a production deadline that is pushing out patches that work because they aren't being merged | 14:33 |
| ieatlint | you've got a team of guys whose job it is to get android working on a device, they're complying with the gpl | 14:33 |
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| ieatlint | if the linux kernel team doesn't want those patches, that's their business, but google is trying to get their hardware working to compete in a very competitive market | 14:34 |
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| thiago | I remember hearing from a kernel hacker once from Intel | 14:35 |
| thiago | "I am not going to accept a patch that passes a kernel spinlock via userspace, even if it fixes your bug and lets you ship on the deadline" | 14:35 |
| thiago | he was talking to another Intel engineer, mind you | 14:36 |
| ieatlint | the essence of the point is valid though | 14:36 |
| thiago | point being: Google has a lot of well-known and good kernel hackers on payroll | 14:37 |
| slaine | The whole point of the question was what's non-gnu about android, that's what was answered | 14:37 |
| ieatlint | but i'd argue both sides of the argument are correct in their positions | 14:37 |
| thiago | they can maintain their contributions, they can ensure they leave the staging branch that greg KH maintains | 14:37 |
| thiago | if they don't do that, the contributions are dropped | 14:37 |
| smoku | yup. what an OEM does with your stuff it's their business. but it's not a reason to lower your project standards | 14:37 |
| ieatlint | slaine: android is not at all gnu in itself | 14:37 |
| ieatlint | it has no gnu libs | 14:37 |
| slaine | exactly | 14:37 |
| slaine | read back | 14:38 |
| ieatlint | it's possible to run android on a gnu system though, but i'm not aware of any devices that do | 14:38 |
| thiago | the wetab | 14:38 |
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| thiago | meego-based internet tablet with dalvik | 14:38 |
| ieatlint | the wetab is a hacked meego 1.0 | 14:38 |
| thiago | http://wetab.mobi/en | 14:38 |
| thiago | the question is whether they had to hack the android patches into the meego kernel | 14:38 |
| Purti | Is phonon supported on Meego? | 14:39 |
| ieatlint | thiago: if you have the patience to dig through their kernel patches and compare, have at it :P | 14:40 |
| * thiago doesn't have the patience | 14:40 | |
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| ieatlint | oh, and disclaimer, i know the former lead of the android kernel dev team :P | 14:42 |
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| pinchartl | most companies just don't get Linux kernel development. Google probably does, but chose not to actively push patches upstream. it's probably more of a business decision | 14:46 |
| pinchartl | even in MeeGo things could be much better | 14:46 |
| pinchartl | look at the meego-kernel mailing list for instance | 14:46 |
| pinchartl | many patches posted there hurt | 14:47 |
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| pinchartl | (on the plus side, we have reviewers who make sure that bad patches don't go in :-)) | 14:48 |
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| thiago | pinchartl: well, as long as those patches flow upstream eventually | 14:53 |
| thiago | remember Intel is the #2 contributor to the Linux kernel | 14:53 |
| thiago | Nokia is #4 | 14:53 |
| thiago | (RH is #1, IBM #3) | 14:53 |
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| pinchartl | thiago: Intel has several of the best Linux kernel developers on payroll. but Intel is a big company, and there's a huge difference in kernel contributions quality between different units | 14:55 |
| thiago | no doubt | 14:56 |
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| KA | I am running the SDK in a chroot. startmeego disappeared. in what package is it? | 15:27 |
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| KA | hey lcuk | 15:36 |
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| lcuk | hiya ka :) fancy seeing you out here :P | 15:36 |
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| KA | I installed the chroot sdk, gave up on the qemu one :) | 15:37 |
| lcuk | ahh cool | 15:38 |
| lcuk | so you run debian as core system don't you? | 15:38 |
| KA | yep | 15:38 |
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| lcuk | which set of instructions did you follow then, because before I had to stop I was looking at the OBS/OSC local install | 15:39 |
| KA | yesterday I had problems updating the sdk chroot to the last daily snap, and the startmeego script disappeared. I guess it was conflicting with some other package | 15:39 |
| KA | lcuk, for the chroot it was quite straightforward. http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_SDK_with_Xephyr | 15:40 |
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| frals | lcuk: for the chroot you dont need to care about osc ;) | 15:40 |
| KA | I just copied the image locally instead of mounting it everytime. faster :) | 15:40 |
| lcuk | eepfrals, sure but does the chroot build packages for multi arch at same time? | 15:40 |
| lcuk | (which is kinda the point of the OBS angle) | 15:41 |
| frals | lcuk: nope ;) | 15:41 |
| lcuk | for testing purposes I want to click "Go!" on a builder and have it run on the waiting devices, whether they be arm or x86 flavoured | 15:42 |
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| lcuk | but that will come :) | 15:42 |
| CosmoHill | hey lcuk | 15:43 |
| lcuk | hiya CosmoHill \o | 15:44 |
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| * CosmoHill offers tea | 15:45 | |
| lcuk | :) any vodka in there? | 15:45 |
| KA | lcuk, do you use the chroot too? | 15:45 |
| lcuk | ka, I haven't set it all up yet, backend of last week I was getting organised and checking bounds of the OBS stuff (getting a maemo deb out would be beneficial for apps too) | 15:46 |
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| * CosmoHill hands lcuk and Irish tea | 15:47 | |
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| Bostik | it is indeed possible to get maemo debs out from an OBS installation but it takes quite a lot of (black) magic | 15:48 |
| CosmoHill | lcuk: what is the physical arrangement of an OBS? Is it just a HP cluster? | 15:49 |
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| lcuk | CosmoHill, OBS can be run locally I understand | 15:52 |
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| lcuk | pulling down the things it needs | 15:52 |
| lcuk | so you could potentially install it on your own cluster :P | 15:52 |
| CosmoHill | I have external IPs now :) | 15:52 |
| lcuk | Bostik, not sure whether its possible but it would be a benefit for certain uses | 15:53 |
| lcuk | oooh CosmoHill | 15:53 |
| lcuk | I have a completely stripped bathroom | 15:53 |
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| KA | can anyone using a sdk chroot do a "rpm -qf /usr/bin/startmeego" (with the right path if it's wrong), please? I'd need to know what package it belongs to :) | 15:53 |
| Bostik | lcuk: I have done it, it took a lot of work and am awful lot of dirty tricks | 15:54 |
| lcuk | Bostik, did you document it? | 15:54 |
| CosmoHill | lcuk: go on... | 15:54 |
| Bostik | lcuk: the biggest problems are build-deps that either directly or or indirectly require anything that is nokia-proprietary | 15:54 |
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| Bostik | lcuk: for work yes, but due to trickery required we haven't been able to make it public; not to mention it's a rough prototype | 15:55 |
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| lcuk | Bostik, reasonable enough | 15:56 |
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| lcuk | prototypes are where the future comes from :) | 15:57 |
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| Bostik | lcuk: hint #1: if you want to build anything in native mode that uses Qt, you can't use maemo's qt packages; the -dev package contains i386 binaries because they are designed to be used ONLY in sbox/madde type of environments | 15:59 |
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| Bostik | lots o' fun | 16:00 |
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| lcuk | yeah, theres lots of issues - its a shame that on device compilation is such a PITA at the moment | 16:01 |
| lcuk | would be easier to squirt sources and build on the box | 16:01 |
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| Bostik | my dream system for OBS would be a farm of 16 or 24 fast ARM boards for workers, each with plenty of memory | 16:02 |
| lcuk | well will 16/24 be enough to build packages for all compatible targets for every package every person pushes to it? | 16:03 |
| lcuk | in a timely fashion? | 16:03 |
| Bostik | you misunderstood :) | 16:03 |
| Bostik | that would be a dream system for *personal* use | 16:04 |
| lcuk | ++ :) | 16:04 |
| CosmoHill | lcuk: you've confused me with your stripped bathroom | 16:05 |
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| lcuk | CosmoHill don't worry, I am very confused myself this week which is why I haven't been sat on thecomputer | 16:06 |
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| CosmoHill | I need to word my ideas into a question | 16:10 |
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| Mat_Matan | anyone have wetab? | 16:12 |
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| slaine | Is it just me or does wetab sound like some sort of urinary disorder ? | 16:27 |
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| epx | hehe | 16:28 |
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| slaine | everytime I read it, part of me flinches. | 16:28 |
| achipa | as long as it's not a wet ab... | 16:29 |
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| achipa | though in this context I'm very happy that we got MeeGo and not WeeGo... that would have been... disturbing | 16:30 |
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| slaine | lol | 16:31 |
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| * w00t_ inserts joke about Nintendo here | 16:32 | |
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| * thiago looks at the blue USB stick saying "weego" on his desk | 16:33 | |
| thiago | I'm not kidding | 16:33 |
| w00t_ | thiago: I want one | 16:33 |
| thiago | http://www.weego.fi/ | 16:34 |
| w00t_ | 'delicious weego solutions and services' | 16:36 |
| w00t_ | this joke gets worse and worse.. | 16:36 |
| jnwi | I ran into this a while ago: http://inoob.fi/ | 16:36 |
| jnwi | Sure makes you want to trust their expertise... | 16:36 |
| w00t_ | lol | 16:37 |
| thiago | lol | 16:37 |
| w00t_ | jnwi: o/ btw | 16:37 |
| jnwi | yeah? | 16:38 |
| jnwi | oh, right, hi to you too :) | 16:39 |
| w00t_ | just saying hi :) | 16:39 |
| jnwi | yeah, I realized :) | 16:39 |
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| jnwi | Will you be coming to future meetups? | 16:42 |
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| w00t_ | I hope to be at the next one at least, I don't know if I'll be in helsinki after 19th of october, so we'll see | 16:42 |
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| jnwi | k. It might be during the 2nd week. | 16:43 |
| w00t_ | in which case I'll make it :-) | 16:43 |
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| jnwi | Great! | 16:44 |
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| jnwi | Bergie will soon meet (or has met, don't know) the person who offered to host the next one. | 16:45 |
| w00t_ | cool | 16:46 |
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| jnwi | Btw, the next meetup will probably be announced here: http://www.meetup.com/Helsinki-MeeGo-Network | 16:48 |
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| Myrtti | Robot101: thanks for retweeting that link | 17:25 |
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| Robot101 | Myrtti: it'd be funny if it wasn't so depressing | 17:28 |
| Tm_T | unless it's so depressing it becomes funny again (just like me) | 17:29 |
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| FunkyPenguin | has anyone tried building panel-web with chromium 7.0? | 17:58 |
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| Jaffa | w00t_: Yay, I feel I can add value on meego-dev :) | 18:00 |
| w00t_ | Jaffa: hmmm? | 18:00 |
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| Jaffa | w00t_: re: setRoughPosition (or whatever it was) | 18:01 |
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| w00t_ | Jaffa: ooh :) | 18:01 |
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| jnwi | exit | 18:40 |
| jnwi | oops | 18:40 |
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| vgrade_ | thiago, the wetab runs android within a VM on MeeGo | 19:07 |
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| thiago | do you mean it runs android in a VM, or it runs android apps in a VM? | 19:08 |
| thiago | android apps are java, so they run in a jvm anyway | 19:08 |
| vgrade_ | full android 2.2, http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=1266&page=3 | 19:08 |
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| * CosmoHill wonders where vgrade with tail learns these things | 19:09 | |
| thiago | sounds like a waste | 19:09 |
| thiago | I mean, waste because dalvik is a Linux app and Android is running Linux | 19:11 |
| thiago | if only Android shared infrastructure... | 19:11 |
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| ScottishDuck | I don't think android apps run in a jvm fyi | 19:13 |
| ScottishDuck | I'm pretty sure dalvik is quite different | 19:13 |
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| Saviq | ScottishDuck: I believe thiago meant _a_ jvm, not _the_ JVM ;) | 19:13 |
| thiago | android apps aren't compiled to native code, they're compiled to dalvik bytecode | 19:15 |
| thiago | so the bytecode needs to be interpreted or JITted anyway | 19:15 |
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| thiago | Stskeeps: ping | 19:20 |
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| thiago | Stskeeps: unping | 19:33 |
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| CosmoHill | that's a new one | 19:34 |
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| vkvraju | hi all | 19:54 |
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| lbt | Khertan: ping | 22:09 |
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| fale | hi | 22:57 |
| mymas | hi | 22:57 |
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| fale | I've seen that there is only the english hunspell package... is there a way to have the italian one too without compiling it? (maybe stealing it from fedora or other similar distro?) | 22:58 |
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| fale | I just realized that maybe I don't need hunspell... I only need abiword to check my ortography :| any idea? | 23:06 |
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| brenddie | hi all. im booting ivi 1.0 in a hp core duo laptop and the mouse/touchpad doesnt work. | 23:45 |
| brenddie | how can i enable it? | 23:46 |
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| Lopi | does meego work on arm eabi? | 23:46 |
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| thiago_home | Lopi: yes | 23:50 |
| thiago_home | arm v7, eabi, little-endian, hard fp vfpv3 | 23:50 |
| thiago_home | as far as I know, no one uses oabi for new projects | 23:50 |
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