| auke | Stskeeps: how much ram is free on the n900 | 00:00 |
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| auke | http://meego.com/devices/netbook/installing-meego-your-netbook | 00:00 |
| CosmoHill | py_newbie: any processor with SSSE3 | 00:00 |
| CosmoHill | so C2D, Atom and the new "i" series | 00:01 |
| py_newbie | CosmoHill: processor I figured out, it is mobo I want to be sure about, so that it has "compatible Intel graphics chipset" :P | 00:01 |
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| py_newbie | my guess is any intel mobo that supports a core 2 duo would be ok | 00:02 |
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| py_newbie | but just asking to be sure | 00:02 |
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| py_newbie | I am in India and here the hardware sellers have a NO return/exchange policy if I buy a mobo ( not compatible with meego) | 00:03 |
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| TheSheMullet | Hi Guys | 01:04 |
| TheSheMullet | I hhave been searching for ages and wondering is there a note taking app for meego netbook | 01:04 |
| TheSheMullet | something like tomboy ot gnote or conboy | 01:04 |
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| * thiago_home doesn't remember seeing any on the netbook menus | 01:06 | |
| thiago_home | but I didn't really look | 01:06 |
| thiago_home | Terminal and browser are all I need :-) | 01:07 |
| CosmoHill | good man | 01:07 |
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| TheSheMullet | thanks, i'll keep looking to see if i can find a fedora one that might work | 01:11 |
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| slaine | TheSheMullet: you'd have to get the source rpm and compile if for meego, you can't just install any rpm package on any rpm based distro | 01:14 |
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| TheSheMullet | i have tried and install by downloading from git and from tar.gz | 01:15 |
| TheSheMullet | each tie it just keeps looking for more libraries it needs so i gave up | 01:15 |
| slaine | TheSheMullet: you're entering the realm of development then | 01:16 |
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| slaine | Have you loaded up the software catalogue tool to see if there's one available online that you could install ? | 01:16 |
| TheSheMullet | i have tried using the manage apps and the garaage, as well as yum and zypper from the terminal | 01:17 |
| TheSheMullet | not luck | 01:17 |
| slaine | :( | 01:19 |
| TheSheMullet | ah sure i'll just use text files for now | 01:20 |
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| CosmoHill | hey slaine, how's it going? | 01:21 |
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| slaine | Hey CosmoHill, not bad, yourself ? | 01:25 |
| CosmoHill | things are mostly okay, just a bit stressed out about the unknown | 01:26 |
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| slaine | CosmoHill: I've had a pretty stressful summer | 01:27 |
| slaine | hasn't quiet finished yet | 01:27 |
| CosmoHill | I started uni and parts of it are scaring me | 01:28 |
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| slaine | ha, right. | 01:28 |
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| slaine | I'm probably in a similar position, stretched too thin with projects over due, approaching deadline and more "urgent" work coming at me than I know what to do with | 01:29 |
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| CosmoHill | I have to do things that I've never done before so I just need to get into the swing of things | 01:30 |
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| CosmoHill | also I'm stressing out about having to select topics within a week to work on for the rest of the semester | 01:30 |
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| CosmoHill | I have to finalise my dissertation and I need to make sure I can get a 1st from it | 01:31 |
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| slaine | right, I'm off to bed for a few hours, catch you tomorrow | 01:37 |
| CosmoHill | cyas | 01:38 |
| slaine | night | 01:38 |
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| CosmoHill | cyas | 02:54 |
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| djszapi | If I find a typo for instance on this page: http://apidocs.meego.com/mtf/introduction.html which git repository should I clone to fix it and send a patch ? | 06:52 |
| chriadam | http://meego.gitorious.org/meegotouch/meegotouch-compositor possibly? | 06:53 |
| chriadam | (i don't really know, tbh, that just seemed like a possibility) | 06:54 |
| djszapi | compository ? | 06:54 |
| djszapi | I do not see introduction.html anywhere. | 06:54 |
| djszapi | nor the search engine. | 06:54 |
| chriadam | http://meego.gitorious.org/meegotouch/libmeegotouch/blobs/master/doc/src/introduction.dox | 06:54 |
| djszapi | good enough, ty. | 06:55 |
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| cobra-the-joker | hey guys ... does meego supports b43 wireless ? | 07:14 |
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| microlith | b43? | 07:22 |
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| cobra-the-joker | microlith , sorry for delay .. b43 wireless card ..broadcom | 07:27 |
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| microlith | ahh | 07:28 |
| microlith | device support on that level is a kernel matter | 07:28 |
| microlith | and the likelihood of that went up recently | 07:28 |
| cobra-the-joker | likelihood ? | 07:28 |
| microlith | yes, broadcom released the sources for their wifi chipsets recently, at least their newer ones | 07:28 |
| microlith | so that will likely have trickle down effects on other chipsets | 07:29 |
| microlith | however, that code won't be integrated until 2.6.37, and meego has settled thus far on 2.6.35 I believe | 07:29 |
| microlith | and it is very much a stock kernel | 07:29 |
| cobra-the-joker | aha | 07:29 |
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| cobra-the-joker | microlith , can i use meego on my notebook for development purposes ... like Java , C++ , python ? | 07:32 |
| microlith | sure | 07:32 |
| microlith | check the hardware requirements first though | 07:32 |
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| CosmoHill | OOo is dead now | 10:45 |
| CosmoHill | well it's not but people are jumping out of the boat | 10:45 |
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| johnx | CosmoHill, I'm kinda relieved | 10:49 |
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| niala | morning :) | 10:50 |
| * CosmoHill offers johnx and niala a cup of tea / coffee | 10:51 | |
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| johnx | CosmoHill, no thanks. time for bed soon | 10:52 |
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| johnx | hilariously, my company just (mostly) finished switching to openoffice late last year | 10:53 |
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| CosmoHill | lol | 10:54 |
| CosmoHill | I suppose you'll switch to the replacement when it's released | 10:54 |
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| johnx | that code base seems kind of terrifying | 10:54 |
| johnx | I'm really not sure if it will work as a community project | 10:55 |
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| RST38h | heya johnx | 10:55 |
| johnx | hey RST38h | 10:55 |
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| CosmoHill | I think we have open office on the macs at uni but we also have MS 2010 and Win7 | 10:57 |
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| johnx | I can't help but think that abiword or koffice would be further along if Sun hadn't open sourced StarOffice | 11:00 |
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| RST38h | Doubt it =( | 11:01 |
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| johnx | RST38h, or that red hat or canonical would have taken on an office suite project of their own resulting in a slightly less skeery code base | 11:04 |
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| CosmoHill | what does meego use for it's office suite? | 11:11 |
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| CosmoHill | salut dazo | 11:31 |
| dazo | CosmoHill: Ciao | 11:31 |
| Chani | CosmoHill: I'm not sure (I don't know anythingabout meego yet) but I know koffice has been working with nokia on mobile office stuff | 11:31 |
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| lbt | DawnFoster: ping... about setting up a team mailing list | 11:34 |
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| priyanka_ | hi is meego ' media player Banshee having the support of DLNA client | 11:50 |
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| priyanka_ | m looking for a media player with DLNA client support. , Does banshee support this requirement | 11:55 |
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| Charubala | Hi all, Could someone tell me where to get kernel source for meego | 12:42 |
| Charubala | ? | 12:42 |
| Stskeeps | repo.meego.com , find the kernel rpm, or on meego.gitorious.org | 12:42 |
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| Charubala | Thanks tackat. | 12:44 |
| Charubala | Thanks moo | 12:45 |
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| Myrtti | örrörörö | 12:59 |
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| pohly | Any Qt experts around? What is the right way to dump a QString in a Linux environment? qDebug() << str.toUtf8() works, but only in a simple app. Once I instantiate QApplication, the output is garbled. | 13:03 |
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| tomma | try qDebug() << str | 13:06 |
| sx0n | qPrintable(string) should do basically same thing. | 13:06 |
| pohly | tomma: does not produce correct output. | 13:07 |
| pohly | Very much to my suprise, I should add. | 13:07 |
| pohly | #include <QDebug> | 13:09 |
| pohly | #include <QApplication> | 13:09 |
| pohly | int main(int argc, char **argv) | 13:09 |
| pohly | { | 13:09 |
| pohly | // QApplication app(argc, argv); | 13:09 |
| pohly | QString summary(QString::fromUtf8("a-umlaut follows: ä")); | 13:09 |
| pohly | qDebug() << summary.toUtf8().size(); | 13:09 |
| pohly | qDebug() << summary; // .toUtf8(); | 13:09 |
| pohly | return 0; | 13:09 |
| pohly | } | 13:09 |
| pohly | $ g++ /home/pohly/src/syncevolution/src/backends/kcalextended/test-qstring.cpp `pkg-config QtCore QtGui --cflags --libs` -o test && ./test | 13:09 |
| pohly | 20 | 13:09 |
| pohly | "a-umlaut follows: �" | 13:09 |
| sx0n | console supports utf8 ? | 13:09 |
| pohly | Yes. It works without QApplication and with qDebug() << summary.toUtf8() | 13:10 |
| tomma | dont use fromUtf8 | 13:11 |
| sx0n | pohly, is your editor using utf8 ? | 13:11 |
| dm8tbr | are you sure this is an regular ä? not an composed character. I've seen OSX do a+" | 13:12 |
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| pohly | sx0n: it should use UTF-8. "cat" shows the source as expected in the same console. | 13:15 |
| pohly | tomma: if I don't use fromUtf8(), then QString treats "const char *" as latin-1. | 13:15 |
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| sx0n | pohly, i am running out of ideas, maybe they could help on qt channel. | 13:17 |
| pohly | Yeah, this is getting off-topic for MeeGo. That's where I saw the issue first, but I can also reproduce it elsewhere. | 13:18 |
| sx0n | i personally would try with files and different editor too. | 13:18 |
| tomma | pohly, http://pastebin.com/aMs9n8rh | 13:21 |
| CosmoHill | pohly: please use pastebin for large amounts of text | 13:21 |
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| pohly | CosmoHill: sorry, will do. | 13:22 |
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| pohly | tomma: so what is the "right" way of doing it? It can't be that this depends on whether a QApplication has been instantiated or not. Some library code may be completely unaware of that. | 13:24 |
| sx0n | pohly, maybe the qapplication reads your locale settings and fsck the output :) | 13:24 |
| tomma | QApplication handles locales etc | 13:24 |
| pohly | sx0n: I'm sure it does, but that still leaves the problem of writing code which works correctly without knowing whether it runs inside a QApplication. | 13:26 |
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| sx0n | pohly, do you have use case for that? | 13:28 |
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| pohly | sx0n: yes, QtCore-based library code. | 13:29 |
| sx0n | that does obey locale settings? | 13:31 |
| sx0n | qbytearray does not care about locale | 13:31 |
| pohly | sx0n: primarily I want qDebug() to work correctly. | 13:31 |
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| pohly | tomma, sx0n: the answer on #qt was that the code without QApplication (or QCoreApplication) is incorrect. Using Qt without instantiating those first has undefined behavior. | 13:53 |
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| sjokkis | DawnFoster: you around? | 13:59 |
| Stskeeps | it's fairly early over there, i'd try again in 4-5 hours | 13:59 |
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| mythi | 7n | 14:13 |
| mythi | oops | 14:13 |
| * CosmoHill growls at VMware Workstaion | 14:14 | |
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| Jaffa | Stskeeps: Good grief, yesterday's image feels even slower than before. Including responsiveness and lag of rotating the home screen. Known/accepted/expected? | 14:32 |
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| Stskeeps | Jaffa: first boot is always a bit slow the first few minutes | 14:36 |
| Jaffa | Stskeeps: OK. I'll bear with it. | 14:36 |
| Jaffa | Just made a phone call though, that was cool | 14:36 |
| Stskeeps | what class microsd? | 14:36 |
| Jaffa | Stskeeps: 4 or 6 *I think*. Anyway to tell from dmesg? | 14:37 |
| Stskeeps | k | 14:37 |
| Stskeeps | not afai | 14:37 |
| Stskeeps | k | 14:37 |
| * Jaffa wonders why MTF lets the account setup page, in portrait mode, scroll & bounce. It feels... odd. | 14:37 | |
| Jaffa | Accelerometers now feel as unreliable as they do on Maemo | 14:38 |
| * slaine notes he's running out of time to get his skunkworx project ready for conference2010 | 14:38 | |
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| mon67 | hello all | 14:51 |
| mon67 | I am a C, C++ developper | 14:51 |
| mon67 | and have xp in qt dev | 14:51 |
| mon67 | with 7 years of xp | 14:52 |
| mon67 | Does meego (or intel or nokia) sponsorize dev to code for meego ptf ? | 14:52 |
| Stskeeps | well, they hire people. | 14:53 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 14:53 |
| mon67 | Stskeeps: for teleworking ? :) | 14:53 |
| Stskeeps | well, not directly, but through subcontractors | 14:54 |
| * Stskeeps teleworks, personally | 14:54 | |
| mon67 | Stskeeps: t'es francais ? | 14:54 |
| mon67 | :) | 14:54 |
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| Stskeeps | no, thank god | 14:54 |
| CosmoHill | hehehe | 14:54 |
| mon67 | :) | 14:54 |
| CosmoHill | I have chrome running on meego in twm :) | 14:54 |
| kraiskil | meego has twm? | 14:54 |
| kraiskil | (as in window manager?) | 14:55 |
| mon67 | Stskeeps: and who are these subcontractors ? :) | 14:55 |
| Stskeeps | mon67: i'd recommend you to look for meego jobs | 14:55 |
| CosmoHill | i think that's what it's called. in init3 if you run "startx" | 14:55 |
| Stskeeps | plenty out there | 14:55 |
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| kraiskil | wow :) | 14:55 |
| kraiskil | I thought twm died sometime in the late 1990's... | 14:55 |
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| dm8tbr | twm is ok for minimal things. they only thing that sucks is that you have to click to make a window appear... | 14:56 |
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| CosmoHill | kristian_m: http://black-flag.co.uk/files/meego-twm.png | 14:57 |
| kraiskil | amazing! | 14:57 |
| mon67 | Stskeeps: meego jobs , url ? | 14:58 |
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| Stskeeps | mon67: forums.meego.com has some posted once in a while | 14:59 |
| Stskeeps | and linkedin.com meego group | 14:59 |
| mon67 | thanks | 14:59 |
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| CosmoHill | I wonder if chrome will work under a non SSSE3 computer | 15:15 |
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| spurvewt | connman, zypper and yum - how they differ, in principle? why is not only one project manager.. | 15:26 |
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| spurvewt | project manager = package manager* | 15:27 |
| CosmoHill | yum will not be available from Meego 1.1 and later | 15:27 |
| kedz | connman is not package manager -> Connection Manager | 15:27 |
| * kedz uses connman in ubuntu for wifi... | 15:27 | |
| spurvewt | oh, it's more clear :) thanks | 15:28 |
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| spurvewt | kedz, but we can use connman like package manager to install/remove/update.. or not?) | 15:29 |
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| kedz | spurvewt, zypper info connman : | 15:31 |
| kedz | Description: | 15:31 |
| kedz | Connection Manager provides a daemon for managing Internet connections | 15:31 |
| kedz | within embedded devices running the Linux operating system. | 15:31 |
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| spurvewt | kedz, more time sorry, i mean PackageKit.. but don't know i why wrote connman.. :/ | 15:34 |
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| CosmoHill | what;s the cheapest phone capable of running meego? | 15:49 |
| Stskeeps | n900? | 15:50 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 15:50 |
| CosmoHill | damn, that costs money | 15:51 |
| Stskeeps | everything costs money in the end | 15:51 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 15:51 |
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| DawnFoster | lbt: you still around? | 15:51 |
| Stskeeps | morn DawnFoster | 15:52 |
| * CosmoHill is a scavenger | 15:52 | |
| DawnFoster | morning Stskeeps | 15:52 |
| CosmoHill | afternoon DawnFoster | 15:52 |
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| Myrtti | sjokkis: *poke* | 15:54 |
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| CosmoHill | it boots! | 15:55 |
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| CosmoHill | it doesn't! | 15:55 |
| sx0n | does n8 run meego? :) | 15:56 |
| Stskeeps | no, symbian | 15:56 |
| CosmoHill | Devil OS - Powered by the souls of the dammed. | 15:56 |
| DawnFoster | Stskeeps: in answer to your question yesterday, I'm now about 90% sure that we're canceling the TSG this week. | 15:56 |
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| DawnFoster | working on confirming it now. | 15:56 |
| Stskeeps | DawnFoster: :nod: | 15:57 |
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| sx0n | n8 is actually ok but i was thinking would it be possible to flash. | 15:57 |
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| Stskeeps | DawnFoster: means i can either 1) go out for a movie or 2) spend my evening debugging fennec, yay : | 15:57 |
| sx0n | but i forget my suspicious plans. | 15:57 |
| Stskeeps | :) | 15:57 |
| DawnFoster | Stskeeps: interesting combo of choices :) | 15:57 |
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| slaine | morning DawnFoster | 16:00 |
| DawnFoster | morning slaine | 16:00 |
| CosmoHill | oh bugger me, there's no /etc/inittab | 16:00 |
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| lbt | DawnFoster: hi... I sent an email :) | 16:08 |
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| CosmoHill | what's the name of the console used by meego? | 16:13 |
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| CosmoHill | you know if you use chromium-brower and gnome-terminal from twm in meego you have a decent LFS build system | 16:27 |
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| GAN900 | So, where did the spec discussion ever end up? | 16:30 |
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| w00t_ | GAN900: "a trainwreck" is a fairly good description | 16:32 |
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| GAN900 | w00t_, yeah, but does that mean they're just going to go ahead steaming on with their spec proposal despite the discussion? | 16:32 |
| w00t_ | GAN900: probably | 16:33 |
| w00t_ | at least, I didn't see any willingness to consider alternative positions | 16:33 |
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| Stskeeps | i still think both sides had their challenges | 16:35 |
| Stskeeps | there was no proper solutions how to in fact deal with testing for compliance with 3rd party deps | 16:35 |
| Stskeeps | and calling that massive thread being ignored is probably not fair either | 16:36 |
| DawnFoster | lbt: hmmm, haven't gotten through all my email, but not seeing one from you - I might find it later | 16:36 |
| DawnFoster | lbt: FYI - process for requesting a new list: http://wiki.meego.com/Mailing_list_guidelines#Requesting_a_New_Mailing_List | 16:37 |
| lbt | meego-infrastructure-tools team ... we would like to share meego-distribution-tools@lists.meego.com | 16:37 |
| lbt | so I sent you a mail, cc the list and all my team members | 16:37 |
| lbt | I hadn't seen that ml when I first pinged you | 16:38 |
| DawnFoster | ah, ok | 16:38 |
| GAN900 | Stskeeps, you have to enter into a discussion willing to shifting your position (at least on somw points). | 16:38 |
| DawnFoster | we'll have to check with Yi & Anas | 16:38 |
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| GAN900 | That discussion came pre-entrenched (we have lots of experience with this from Maemo). | 16:38 |
| berndhs | Stskeeps: GAN900: lets be realistic, this isn't about quality control, it's about market control | 16:39 |
| Stskeeps | GAN900: and a lot of non-understanding of the issue | 16:39 |
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| GAN900 | So wasn't much of a discussion, and wasn't worth having if it's a pre-determined thing. | 16:39 |
| Stskeeps | berndhs: there's no benefit to not having 3rd party deps for commercial deployers, so let's keep this out of it.. | 16:39 |
| achipa | Stskeeps: I don't think nobody said it was ignored - just that neither side wants to budge so the compromise potential is really-really small | 16:39 |
| GAN900 | berndhs, I don't believe these things need to be dictated by the core spec. | 16:39 |
| berndhs | Stskeeps: why keep it out of it if that is the main point | 16:40 |
| Stskeeps | achipa: from a completely objective pov, there was no good solutions to solving the 3rd party dep problem | 16:40 |
| GAN900 | I don't think a good justification was put forward for why the spec needed to mandate that. | 16:40 |
| berndhs | it is about what who says what goes on the devices, the manufacturer/service provider, or the rest of the world | 16:40 |
| sjokkis | Myrtti: sup | 16:40 |
| berndhs | the spec is just a tool to do that | 16:40 |
| achipa | Stskeeps: there is actually no problem, unless 'choice' comes up under 'problems', which is another matter in itself | 16:41 |
| GAN900 | Throughout the whole discussion there was a lot of ignoring of important points. | 16:41 |
| GAN900 | berndhs, and we seem to be headed for Android style dictating. | 16:41 |
| achipa | berndhs: not once has that been contested | 16:41 |
| berndhs | GAN900: yes that seems to be where it is headed | 16:42 |
| berndhs | achipa: I would love to contest it as an independent developer and as a user :) | 16:42 |
| Stskeeps | .. it's a sticker saying that 'this will install on a meego compliant device' not 'without this sticker you can never install on a meego compliant device' | 16:42 |
| Stskeeps | why do people think there's corporate conspiracies behind everything? | 16:42 |
| achipa | berndhs: the question was where does ONE vendors choice become a mandate for ALL vendors | 16:42 |
| GAN900 | Stskeeps, the thread already illustrated why that's pointless. | 16:42 |
| lbt | Stskeeps: because questions are avoided | 16:43 |
| GAN900 | and the massive issues that thinking introduces when you put control in the hands of carriers and OEMs. | 16:43 |
| berndhs | Stskeeps: its not a conspiracy, it is standard practice in many markets | 16:43 |
| lbt | Stskeeps: I wish it was "just a sticker" .... Graham Cobb answered that with his marketing | 16:43 |
| achipa | Stskeeps: no, that's not what the sticker says :) | 16:43 |
| Stskeeps | ok, so, honestly | 16:44 |
| lbt | The sticker is phrased in such a way as to FUDify unstickered apps | 16:44 |
| achipa | Stskeeps: the sticker says 'this SORT OF COULD install on a meego compliant device, if the vendor, architecture, profile, etc, etc don't say otherwise' | 16:44 |
| Stskeeps | achipa: why 'sort of could'? | 16:44 |
| Stskeeps | ok, but again: put yourself in a vendor's shoes: what is the benefit to restrict 3rd party deps other than meego core and eventual profile? | 16:45 |
| achipa | Stskeeps: sort of - because it depends on the factors outlined above | 16:45 |
| GAN900 | Netbook stuff isn't going to work on handset. | 16:46 |
| achipa | Stskeeps: that argument goes both way, though - what is the benefit of having a compliancy program everybody ignores ? | 16:46 |
| achipa | (everybody as in your developers, other stores, etc) | 16:46 |
| Stskeeps | achipa: ok, so it starts out with the trademark program, right. the ability to say X for MeeGo or whatever, right? | 16:46 |
| berndhs | Stskeeps: the benefit is they het to keep their business practices, and they control what their customers can do | 16:47 |
| berndhs | Stskeeps: and service providers are happy with controlled customers | 16:47 |
| Stskeeps | berndhs: sorry, i don't get you | 16:47 |
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| achipa | berndhs: totally unrelated - they can disallow compliant apps just as well, it doesn't change anything | 16:48 |
| berndhs | manufacturers don't like stuff they don't know running on their devices | 16:48 |
| berndhs | service providers don't like other services on devices they have contracts for | 16:48 |
| Stskeeps | except this has nothing to deal with compliance.. | 16:48 |
| berndhs | achipa: no the can't if the user can isntall anything they want | 16:48 |
| achipa | berndhs: and what's that got to do with compliancy ? | 16:49 |
| berndhs | Stskeeps: yesit does, compliance says what can be installed and what can't | 16:49 |
| Stskeeps | berndhs: no, it doesn't | 16:49 |
| achipa | berndhs: no, its doesnt | 16:49 |
| berndhs | it does to a large extent | 16:49 |
| achipa | it says what gets a sticker. It's up to the manufacturer to decide what he/she wants to do with the sticker OR each app individually | 16:50 |
| Stskeeps | achipa: as i see the situation, the use of meego trademark for an app (for meego, etc) means conforming to app compliance. | 16:50 |
| Stskeeps | means/requires | 16:50 |
| achipa | the thing is this is not about control, just *trying* to preemtpively avoid fragmentation - and not being too good at it | 16:51 |
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| Stskeeps | what's hoped to be created (as a platform value) is that users can trust a platform that when there's a sticker saying "Foo for MeeGo", it -will- run on your MeeGo device | 16:51 |
| Stskeeps | sticker on an app | 16:51 |
| Stskeeps | do we have this in android apps atm? | 16:52 |
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| achipa | Stskeeps: this died the moment the decision for multiple profiles was made | 16:52 |
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| Stskeeps | achipa: Flash for MeeGo would work on multiple profiles as it targets core. PictureTouch may only work on MeeGo handset (as indicated) | 16:53 |
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| GAN900 | Whether or not it's actually secure, usable on your UX, or not going to fill up your rootfs being a separate issue. | 16:53 |
| achipa | Stskeeps: the point is, you can have a meego touch based app that is meego compliant and at the same time it being utterly useless on a meego compliant netbook device | 16:54 |
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| sivu | stskeeps, it's hard to get stickers that stick to software | 16:54 |
| sivu | bits are so slippery | 16:54 |
| berndhs | it also inflates the size of non-compliant apps with duplicated libs, and puts pressure on the core lib to allow low quality libs because some big guy wants them | 16:54 |
| Stskeeps | achipa: so you're saying we shouldn't even try to bring in that platform value as it's impossible to do right? | 16:55 |
| achipa | Stskeeps: to make things worse, android does have that to an extent, though mostly because they did not have the time to break enough backwards compatibility :) but they are headed for that hell certainly | 16:55 |
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| GAN900 | Stskeeps, can we do it without being obnoxious and anti-open source? | 16:57 |
| lbt | berndhs: and.... it doesn't mean what it says on the tin. | 16:57 |
| achipa | Stskeeps: what I'm saying is that this is fitting pants on a horse - something will have to get adapted or refocused here, either MeeGo or the definitions around it | 16:57 |
| lbt | it means "works with MeeGo for sure" | 16:57 |
| lbt | it says "the *only* thing that works on MeeGo" | 16:57 |
| lbt | it says "if you don't have this sticker then you suck" | 16:58 |
| berndhs | lbt: right | 16:58 |
| lbt | that's the problem | 16:58 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: where do you extract the two latter from? | 16:58 |
| lbt | it says "Mr Vendor... don't trust apps without this sticker" | 16:58 |
| achipa | Stskeeps: it's as if marketing dudes went out to ask android dev "whats your biggest problem" and they said fragmentation - so they made the compliancy based on that criteria | 16:59 |
| Stskeeps | ok, so how would we combat fragmentation in a open source way? | 16:59 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 16:59 |
| lbt | Stskeeps: find a "Compliance" programme and look at the way people understand it to work | 16:59 |
| achipa | Stskeeps: and at the same time other dudes had the task to bring as many vendors as possible, with all their profiles and interests | 16:59 |
| lbt | by definition if you have things labelled compliant then things that are not labelled are not compliant | 16:59 |
| berndhs | Stskeeps: what do the words "not compliant" mean to most people ? | 17:00 |
| sivu | what if some program needs some ux in order to work | 17:00 |
| achipa | and somehow the two groups of these dudes never met | 17:00 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: admittedly, i wouldn't want to put a non-compliant app in my store as people would complain to me when it doesn't install | 17:00 |
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| lbt | lbt: see now you're infected | 17:00 |
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| lbt | not having the sticker doesn't mean it won't work | 17:00 |
| Stskeeps | i know | 17:00 |
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| Stskeeps | but how do i know this in advance? | 17:00 |
| lbt | "people would complain to me when it doesn't install" when, not "if" | 17:01 |
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| Khertan | lbt, and how are you sure that everyone do things rightly ? | 17:01 |
| Stskeeps | that's what is attempted, knowing that i can install those things in advance | 17:01 |
| berndhs | Stskeeps: the other side of the coin is you don't know in advance which new libs and app are going to save your economic butt | 17:01 |
| lbt | Khertan: technical problem | 17:02 |
| Stskeeps | berndhs: i don't disagree | 17:02 |
| achipa | Stskeeps: but why are you showing people stuff they cannot install ? | 17:02 |
| Aard | gah. /me thinks using "bernd" in nicknames shouldn't be allowed. | 17:02 |
| lbt | There is a place for a sticker that says "minimal app - pretty safe" | 17:02 |
| berndhs | Aard: what's wrong with my name ? | 17:03 |
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| Stskeeps | achipa: i'm not, i just said i wouldn't put non-compliant in as to save my poor telephone supporters from eventual angry calls | 17:03 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 17:03 |
| Aard | berndhs: the tons of highlights I get | 17:03 |
| berndhs | Aard: expect me to remember a nick for myself , do you :) | 17:03 |
| achipa | Stskeeps: don't forget that stores might come up with their own compliancy rules if it fits them better | 17:04 |
| * lbt offers Aard a better regexp | 17:04 | |
| Aard | berndhs: oh, sorry, I wasn't aware of your limited mental capabilities :p | 17:04 |
| achipa | which would be bad for *everyone* | 17:04 |
| * Khertan didn't care about store, but just hope we can use 3rd party repository from the Application Manager, and hope that the application manager will not put stupid limitation as on maemo. | 17:05 | |
| Stskeeps | i personally think we should explore how to properly allow for: first-party (platform) and second-party (developer) dependencies | 17:05 |
| lbt | Stskeeps: the concept is sounds.. the phrasing sucks | 17:05 |
| Stskeeps | and third-party (sharing components) | 17:05 |
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| lbt | I do support the concept of "so simple it works anywhere"-app | 17:05 |
| Stskeeps | second-party components should be possible, given the installation into /opt/packagename and such. | 17:05 |
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| Stskeeps | third-party, ie, a bunch of apps sharing SDL needs a solution too | 17:06 |
| Khertan | lbt, a url that call the web browser isn"t an application :) | 17:07 |
| Khertan | Stskeeps, or python or anything else | 17:07 |
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| Khertan | (by python i mean python modules) | 17:08 |
| lbt | Khertan: python modules is one of the reasons I got into this fight in the first place | 17:08 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: if you had just one second to answer: i have an app 'mer' that depends on meego platform and a theme, what conditions would you set up for testing that this will install onto a meego device and what restrictions should there be? | 17:09 |
| Khertan | lbt, and this is one of the reason when i didn't believe on nokia/intel/meego for my future device, when i see they are talking of c++/qt everywhere | 17:09 |
| Stskeeps | you can assume noone else uses the theme | 17:09 |
| Khertan | s/when/ | 17:09 |
| achipa | Stskeeps: I hear ya ! Sadly, the point is it seems this stuff is largely irrelevant - the compliancy is there to push the marketing image of a unified platform (shooting itself in the foot if necessary) | 17:09 |
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| Stskeeps | achipa: so qt everywhere is bullshit? ;) | 17:10 |
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| achipa | Stskeeps: irrelevant to compliancy - you can write a non-qt app that is compliant | 17:11 |
| achipa | (silly as it is) | 17:11 |
| berndhs | practically all the compliant stuff right now is non-qt :) | 17:11 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | even with insane amounts of planning and forethought...the only way one can deal with these insanities, is to stumble through them... | 17:11 |
| lbt | Stskeeps: I would issue an apt-get --download-only and see if it worked | 17:11 |
| achipa | Stskeeps: not for a moment was there a question of whether we can find a good technical solution - the whole thing is a one sentence premise (my guess - based on feedback from Android developers) and now we're fitting the universe to it | 17:12 |
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| * lbt has to go .... l8r | 17:12 | |
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| berndhs | has there been anything on who eventually decides this for meego ? | 17:13 |
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| Stskeeps | achipa: otoh, we can't say 'no, can't be done! unpossible!' | 17:13 |
| Stskeeps | the technical solution isn't simple, either | 17:13 |
| Khertan | <Stskeeps> achipa: so qt everywhere is bullshit? ;) < i think | 17:14 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | really, this is new territory, not just for us, but for Android, etc. | 17:14 |
| Stskeeps | the easiest way out is actually: only depend on the platform | 17:14 |
| achipa | Stskeeps: certainly ! but that's why I sad something has to give/change. You can't keep on shoving a box through a circular hole for too long... | 17:14 |
| Khertan | specially the nokia vision which is c++/qt everywhere | 17:14 |
| Stskeeps | achipa: agreed | 17:14 |
| Stskeeps | achipa: another problem of this whole discussion is that people really have different understanding of terms and most importantly what's trying to be solved.. | 17:15 |
| Stskeeps | i am actually leaning towards that for 1.1, while solutions are made, the only 'sane' technical solution, given the timeframe, is 'only depend on the platform' | 17:16 |
| achipa | Stskeeps: hey, that's what I said (or at least meant) when talking about the two groups of dudes who both have a good goal, but apparently fail to meet and sync :) | 17:17 |
| Stskeeps | yeah.. | 17:17 |
| Stskeeps | achipa: well, 1.1 is not the prettiest platform.. hopefully next iteration should kill the last irritating bits | 17:17 |
| Khertan | Stskeeps, you ll have many things to kill | 17:18 |
| GAN900 | Hopefully without irrevocably breaking things in the long term. . . . | 17:18 |
| achipa | Stskeeps: though the 'only platform' thing kills the bling appeal... | 17:18 |
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| Stskeeps | achipa: i think a meego touch app could work in a netbook, though | 17:18 |
| Stskeeps | even in a tv, for what it matters | 17:19 |
| thiago | there's no reason why it couldn't | 17:19 |
| Stskeeps | the discussion is how we make the difference as minimal as possible | 17:19 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 17:19 |
| achipa | ? lack of pointer input ? | 17:19 |
| Stskeeps | achipa: nintendo wii ;) | 17:19 |
| Stskeeps | and still have app being usable | 17:19 |
| achipa | Stskeeps: i *would* kinda put that under pointer :) | 17:19 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | multi targeted UIs in our own experience is difficult, the only thing that can really help here, is well defined human interface guidelines | 17:20 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | we already have part of the battle won, with a definitive set of user experiences to target | 17:21 |
| achipa | TSCHAKeee2: if you say hildon, no suppoer for you ! :D | 17:21 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | achipa: it's not about toolkits really | 17:21 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | it's about making sure the user gets a consistent experience in line with the UX. | 17:21 |
| Stskeeps | achipa: but you're right, these people need to sit down in same room and talk | 17:22 |
| achipa | TSCHAKeee2: (feeble attempt at a joke) | 17:22 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | achipa: ;) | 17:22 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | achipa: apologies, i am trying to contribute my own experience in this matter. ;) | 17:22 |
| Stskeeps | TSCHAKeee2: what's your expectations to meego as an app developer/solution maker? | 17:22 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | we have to deal with similar issues in LinuxMCE (we target a whole mess of devices.) | 17:22 |
| Stskeeps | within compliance | 17:22 |
| achipa | TSCHAKeee2: agree except for the 'definitive set of user experiences', that's not definive by a long shot | 17:23 |
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| TSCHAKeee2 | Stskeeps: simple, define well enough how the app should work on the different target devices, and i can make something that works on all those devices. If need be, take the UX icons you see on the web site, have a sticker that greys some of them out, if they don't work on say, IVI, etc. | 17:23 |
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| Stskeeps | :nod: | 17:24 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | achipa: this is what needs to be defined and focused..not perfect..but enough so that there is rough consensus. | 17:24 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | guys, it can't be perfect, but some ground rules can be set. | 17:25 |
| CosmoHill | anyone in here have bootchart.jar ? | 17:25 |
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| lcuk | question: are people expecting boxed software? | 17:26 |
| GAN900 | It'd be helpful to set down all of the requirements before we start off on the discussion. | 17:26 |
| lcuk | or is the sticker terminology virtual | 17:26 |
| GAN900 | virtual | 17:27 |
| lcuk | but I can go into pc world and browse the shelves for tonnes of software | 17:27 |
| achipa | lcuk: a good question, nobody said that a store HAS to be virtual/net based | 17:28 |
| thiago | http://www.splashtop.com/blog/ | 17:28 |
| achipa | lcuk: as in, you could sell it on a mem card or whatever, in a box and all | 17:28 |
| lcuk | also would have to work out how to actually introduce said software onto the device | 17:28 |
| thiago | MeeGo Handset running on OMAP4 | 17:28 |
| achipa | the zoom thingy, right ? | 17:29 |
| Stskeeps | blaze | 17:29 |
| TomaszD | yo Stskeeps | 17:33 |
| Stskeeps | moo | 17:33 |
| TomaszD | o/ | 17:33 |
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| thiago | tablet: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrdrBefMAEc | 17:35 |
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| TSCHAKeee2 | yeah, i saw that not too long ago | 17:36 |
| lcuk | ooh thiago it almost manages to work at expected speed on the omap4 :P | 17:36 |
| Stskeeps | thiago: would you consider it a release blocker if handset UX can't run non-mtf apps? | 17:36 |
| TomaszD | that's neat but I can't help but notice the annoying delay | 17:36 |
| lcuk | any idea why the photo viewer isnt loading thumbnails? | 17:36 |
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| thiago | Stskeeps: yes | 17:36 |
| lcuk | (time taken to load each picture appears to be scanning the full image instead of a tiny thumb) | 17:37 |
| thiago | Stskeeps: but I'm biased | 17:37 |
| Stskeeps | thiago: can't run being 'show up as a white screen' | 17:37 |
| TomaszD | Stskeeps, is tracker still wreaking havoc upon boot and generally being nasty? | 17:37 |
| Stskeeps | TomaszD: no | 17:37 |
| thiago | Stskeeps: have we found out why? | 17:37 |
| thiago | Stskeeps: is it the compositor? or the plainqt style? | 17:37 |
| TomaszD | Stskeeps, so it's usable now? | 17:37 |
| Stskeeps | thiago: compositor | 17:37 |
| thiago | Stskeeps: you mean that non-qt apps don't work either? | 17:37 |
| Stskeeps | thiago: yeah, xterm blanks too | 17:37 |
| thiago | ouch | 17:37 |
| thiago | definitely showstopper | 17:38 |
| thiago | "braindead WM" | 17:38 |
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| Stskeeps | thiago: i'm a little surprised by http://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2953#c16 | 17:38 |
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| thiago | Stskeeps: sounds shortsighted to me | 17:39 |
| Stskeeps | a tad | 17:39 |
| thiago | "I don't speak Finnish, therefore no one does and we don't have to support it" | 17:39 |
| Stskeeps | what's the worth of releasing a handset platform you can't run a qt app for? :P | 17:39 |
| Stskeeps | but i guess this discussion will continue | 17:40 |
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| TomaszD | so Stskeeps where can I find the latest greatest readymade image? at the codedrop? | 17:41 |
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| Stskeeps | TomaszD: repo.meego.com under builds/trunk/ i think | 17:41 |
| Stskeeps | and handset | 17:41 |
| TomaszD | thanks | 17:41 |
| Stskeeps | TomaszD: first boot isn't as hard havoc as it has been | 17:42 |
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| Stskeeps | and second boots are very nice | 17:42 |
| achipa | so that's what the sticky-note 'apt-get remove mcompositor' was about :S | 17:42 |
| Stskeeps | i vote for emacs aswem | 17:42 |
| Stskeeps | as wem | 17:42 |
| Stskeeps | wm | 17:42 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 17:42 |
| * Stskeeps sighs | 17:42 | |
| thiago | twm | 17:43 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | Stskeeps: stciky keybaord? :P :) | 17:43 |
| Stskeeps | TSCHAKeee2: tired fingers | 17:43 |
| achipa | you get that if you use emacs too much | 17:43 |
| TomaszD | hmm no image here http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/trunk/daily/handset/repos/armv7l/packages/armv7l/ | 17:43 |
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| sjokkis | DawnFoster: how are we doing on that hardware queue thing? | 17:43 |
| achipa | (another feeble attempt at a joke) | 17:43 |
| Stskeeps | TomaszD: no such thing as daily images, just weekly | 17:44 |
| DawnFoster | sjokkis: honestly, I just haven't had time to look into it | 17:44 |
| Stskeeps | ie, http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/trunk/1.0.90.4.20100928.1/ | 17:44 |
| sjokkis | DawnFoster: that's okay | 17:44 |
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| mairas | hey, if I build some packages in my meego OBS home project (home:mairas), what's the URL for the respective repo? | 17:44 |
| DawnFoster | sjokkis: I'm guessing that we'll wait to implement it after 1.1 release at the end of Oct | 17:44 |
| Stskeeps | mairas: click 'go to repository' | 17:44 |
| Stskeeps | or somehing | 17:44 |
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| DawnFoster | I do have it on my list of things to ask about today | 17:44 |
| TomaszD | http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/trunk/1.0.90.4.20100928.1/handset/images/ google chrome thinks this page is in indonesian... | 17:45 |
| DawnFoster | at least the budget from our side anyway | 17:45 |
| mairas | Stskeeps, meh... can't find | 17:45 |
| mairas | Stskeeps, but that was a fast answer, anyway ;-D | 17:46 |
| mairas | ahh, there it is | 17:46 |
| mairas | thanks :-) | 17:46 |
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| * CosmoHill found this: http://www.mirrorservice.org/sites/ftp.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/people/arjan/bootcharts/bootchart.svg | 17:52 | |
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| lcuk | thiago, that meego picture viewer, can you test it with 1500 photos | 17:55 |
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| lcuk | infact, is meego able to read the 32gb eMMC ? | 17:55 |
| lcuk | hmm | 17:55 |
| Stskeeps | yes, but we don't touch it | 17:56 |
| thiago | lcuk: not me | 17:56 |
| thiago | I'm just linking to the video | 17:56 |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, so its readonly? | 17:56 |
| lcuk | or not visible? | 17:56 |
| Stskeeps | not visible | 17:56 |
| Stskeeps | we try to be non-destructive | 17:56 |
| lcuk | ie, I have not seen anything in photos other than the defaults | 17:56 |
| lcuk | balls | 17:57 |
| lcuk | i have ~2000 photos | 17:57 |
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| GAN900 | So, what are handset app devs supposed to use? | 17:59 |
| Stskeeps | in terms of? | 17:59 |
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| Termana | lcuk, you can mount it yourself... | 17:59 |
| * thiago uses his handset as a real phone | 17:59 | |
| Termana | but I guess you probably already knew that | 18:00 |
| thiago | but it's running maemo 6 | 18:00 |
| Termana | thiago, burn | 18:00 |
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| thiago | I use phone, calendar and email | 18:01 |
| thiago | and terminal | 18:01 |
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| GAN900 | Stskeeps, not being able to run apps on 1.1 | 18:06 |
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| GAN900 | thiago, Maemo 6 isn't a thing. :P | 18:06 |
| thiago | GAN900: it is for me | 18:06 |
| thiago | even though it isn't called that | 18:06 |
| Stskeeps | GAN900: think it's just a bug | 18:06 |
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| pancake | do last weekly release of meego supports phone? | 18:11 |
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| Stskeeps | yes | 18:12 |
| Stskeeps | for n900 | 18:12 |
| Stskeeps | repo.meego.com one | 18:12 |
| pancake | any screenshots? | 18:12 |
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| Stskeeps | try it out yourself :) no videos or pics yet i think | 18:12 |
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| renato | hi all, How I can add this repository on my neetbook repository list? http://download.obs.maemo.org/MeeGo%3a/current/standard/i586/ | 18:20 |
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| pancake | Stskeeps: will try it tomorrow with my other n900. i dont want to loose my system :) | 18:20 |
| renato | which url I need to use? | 18:20 |
| Jaffa | thiago: A phone you use at home, and not in public ;-) | 18:21 |
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| Stskeeps | pancake: non-destructive, dd to microsd card and load kernel with flasher over usb (not flash) | 18:23 |
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| pancake | Stskeeps: ah! then i can give it a try :) | 18:23 |
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| smooph | hey any word on how long till I can use the Handset Image with a couple of tools ? | 18:24 |
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| Stskeeps | pancake: wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Install/MMC | 18:25 |
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| pancake | thanks | 18:27 |
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| arfoll | any particular reason why the maemo OBS is being so slow? downloads keeps dying every ten minutes and going ~40KB/s | 18:27 |
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| pancake | Stskeeps: once running, meego has any way to take screenshots? | 18:30 |
| Stskeeps | pancake: ssh in and cp /dev/fb0 file.raw ;) | 18:30 |
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| Stskeeps | i'm not sure really, we discussed it in #meego-arm earlier | 18:30 |
| pancake | haha ok | 18:31 |
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| arfoll | someone needs to make a package for scrot | 18:33 |
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| pancake | scrot is great | 18:44 |
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| DawnFoster | No TSG meeting today | 18:45 |
| DawnFoster | We're rescheduling it - likely for Oct 6 | 18:45 |
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| pancake | Stskeeps: kernel panic booting the kernel from flasher-3.5 | 18:50 |
| Stskeeps | pancake: what exact command line did you use and is your back cover on? | 18:51 |
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| pancake | sudo dd bs=4096 if=meego-handset-armv7l-n900-1.0.90.4.20100928.1-mmcblk0p.raw.bz2 of=/dev/sdc | 18:52 |
| Stskeeps | you probably need to bunzip2 that first :) | 18:52 |
| pancake | sudo flasher-3.5 -l -b -k meego-handset-armv7l-n900-1.0.90.4.20100928.1-vmlinuz-2.6.35.3-8.5-n900 | 18:52 |
| Stskeeps | and use -l -k vmlinuz -b | 18:52 |
| pancake | ok | 18:53 |
| pancake | my fault :P | 18:53 |
| Stskeeps | you were the 0xFFFF guy weren't you? | 18:54 |
| pancake | yes | 18:54 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: then i remembered right | 18:55 |
| pancake | :nod? :) | 18:55 |
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| Stskeeps | To lower and raise the head quickly, as in agreement or acknowledgment. | 18:56 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 18:56 |
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| Termana | pancake, well actually it's not your fault, the wiki says sudo flasher-3.5 -l -b -k <kernel> | 18:56 |
| pancake | hehe, those advanced abstract emoticons .. :P | 18:56 |
| Termana | Not anymore though :P | 18:57 |
| Stskeeps | Termana: fixed it? | 18:57 |
| Termana | Stskeeps, mmm | 18:57 |
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| pancake | the bz2 step was just my fault, maybe this tutorial should point to the new firmware repository | 18:58 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 18:58 |
| Stskeeps | we've just been so busy coding that we didn't get around to documentation :P | 18:58 |
| pancake | i think that nitdroid guys where able to modify bootmenu to boot different kernels | 18:59 |
| Stskeeps | we intend on using u-boot instead | 18:59 |
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| Stskeeps | multiboot has a fatal problem with kernels that doesn't support ubifs, like ours | 18:59 |
| Stskeeps | (waste of space) | 18:59 |
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| Stskeeps | and that we have root=/dev/mmcblk0p1 | 19:01 |
| Stskeeps | instead of the internal nand | 19:01 |
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| pancake | yeah, i prefer uboot too | 19:03 |
| pancake | i have to reboot | 19:03 |
| pancake | modprobe is taking 100% cpu :) | 19:03 |
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| bfree | how's kexec with current Meego kernels? maybe http://www.solemnwarning.net/kexec-loader/ or something like it is an easier way to get a useful bootloader (i.e. one that can support any fs the kernels can support)? | 19:06 |
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| Stskeeps | bfree: some of our drivers are really unhappy with kexec | 19:11 |
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| bfree | unhappy if they are loaded and then a kexec appears later? as in that case as "just a bootloader" there's probably no need for those drivers to be in the "kexec bootloader" ... but I guess that also depends on those drivers not being needed by the "bootloader" | 19:13 |
| Stskeeps | unhappy after kernel start | 19:13 |
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| * pancake booting meego in n900 :) | 19:17 | |
| Stskeeps | cool | 19:18 |
| Stskeeps | SIM needed without pin code, (no pin entry dialog atm) | 19:19 |
| pancake | uhm. black screen in X? it is slow to boot? | 19:19 |
| Stskeeps | give it a bit.. | 19:19 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 19:19 |
| pancake | or it is just hanged? ok will wait | 19:19 |
| pancake | oh | 19:19 |
| pancake | its here | 19:19 |
| pancake | :) | 19:19 |
| Stskeeps | first boot is always a tad nasty | 19:19 |
| pancake | let's play | 19:19 |
| Stskeeps | sreadahead doing stuff, tracker indexing pictures, videos.. | 19:19 |
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| pancake | kinda slow | 19:21 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: first boot | 19:22 |
| Stskeeps | we also have a bit of memory pressure | 19:22 |
| Stskeeps | and a potential omap mmc bug in the upstream kernel :) | 19:22 |
| Stskeeps | so plenty of fun things | 19:22 |
| pancake | and phone doesnt seems to work, i got black screen again :? | 19:22 |
| Stskeeps | give it a bit.. | 19:22 |
| Stskeeps | the black screen issue is new | 19:23 |
| pancake | i think is hanged now | 19:23 |
| Stskeeps | what class microsd are you on? | 19:24 |
| pancake | kingston | 19:24 |
| pancake | worked fine with nitdroid | 19:24 |
| Stskeeps | class, not vendor :) | 19:24 |
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| pancake | gonna reboot | 19:24 |
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| Stskeeps | :nod: | 19:25 |
| Stskeeps | there was a lot of last-minute changes coming in, so | 19:25 |
| pancake | HC4 8GB | 19:26 |
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| Stskeeps | just had a really weird black screen issue myself, hmm | 19:28 |
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| pancake | 2nd boot looks better | 19:31 |
| pancake | :) | 19:31 |
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| pancake | but phone not working and black screen after a while | 19:38 |
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| pancake | many icons are missing in preferences app | 19:38 |
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| Stskeeps | :nod: | 19:40 |
| Stskeeps | phone works for others, so unsure what's going on | 19:40 |
| Stskeeps | but yeah, development images .. sigh :P | 19:41 |
| pancake | :) | 19:41 |
| * Stskeeps 's blood pressure is way too high these days : | 19:41 | |
| pancake | do battery charging works here? | 19:41 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 19:41 |
| Stskeeps | wall charger support is a little broken | 19:42 |
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| pancake | brbr now white screen :P | 19:46 |
| pancake | that's unusable | 19:46 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, i'm seeing same pattern atm too | 19:47 |
| Stskeeps | i think something sour got integrated | 19:47 |
| pancake | Stskeeps: not all carriers supported? | 19:47 |
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| pancake | there are keybindings? | 19:48 |
| Stskeeps | pancake: modem feature is fairly new so unsure how capable ofono is at this stage | 19:48 |
| pancake | ok | 19:48 |
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| pancake | Stskeeps: do it works for you? | 19:51 |
| Stskeeps | yes, it works for me and i had a fine telephone call with it | 19:52 |
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| thiago_home | meego handset? | 19:54 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 19:54 |
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| thiago_home | I heard they make calls | 19:54 |
| thiago_home | I've seen one do that live :-) | 19:54 |
| Stskeeps | it comes out the speakers but .. :) | 19:54 |
| pancake | is camera working? | 19:54 |
| thiago_home | now, the question is: how do you hang up? | 19:55 |
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| pancake | hahaha | 19:55 |
| pancake | thiago_home: it's a trap :) | 19:55 |
| Stskeeps | pancake: not yet, we're working on mainlining kernel support | 19:55 |
| pancake | ok good | 19:56 |
| TomaszD | wtf, is the meego conf during a workweek? | 19:56 |
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| Stskeeps | yes, this was discussed at length | 19:56 |
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| TomaszD | Stskeeps, meaning? | 19:57 |
| Stskeeps | meaning that you can find it on meego-dev mailing list :P it's during a work week, yes | 19:58 |
| thiago_home | TomaszD: yes, monday to wednesday | 19:58 |
| TomaszD | so how come people are actually coming | 19:58 |
| thiago_home | two reasons: | 19:58 |
| thiago_home | 1) it's interesting | 19:58 |
| thiago_home | 2) people manage to convince their employers of that | 19:59 |
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| Ronksu | +1 for travelling on employers money :) | 20:00 |
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| thiago_home | well, that isn't required for what I said. Getting the days off would be a start. Getting to go without taking days off is better. | 20:01 |
| thiago_home | employer paying you to do that even more so | 20:01 |
| Stskeeps | i kinda hope there'll be some workshop weekends once in a while to assist with community building | 20:01 |
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| Stskeeps | but we're at like 400 registrations with 200 more places, so.. | 20:02 |
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| thiago_home | hum... Sunday community activities | 20:04 |
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| thiago_home | the community-building day was Wednesday | 20:04 |
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| Stskeeps | :nod: | 20:05 |
| Stskeeps | i meant in terms of 'people who contribute in their free time' | 20:05 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 20:05 |
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| GAN900 | TomaszD, apparently we're more interested in corporate people than community types. | 20:09 |
| GAN900 | Did we ever find budget for the pre-conference community days? | 20:09 |
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| DawnFoster | OK, the TSG has been rescheduled for October 6 (not today) | 20:13 |
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| thiago_home | DawnFoster: ok | 20:17 |
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| DawnFoster | sorry about the last minute notice (I would have liked more lead time, too) :) | 20:18 |
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| Stskeeps | GAN900: sure, that's actively being done afaik | 20:22 |
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| TomaszD | argh, just wasted 15 minutes flashing the partition instead of the device | 21:13 |
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| fandeli | trying to setup MIC2 but the repository key can be found on the server, this is what I got http://pastebin.ca/1951256 have someone a clue about this? | 21:33 |
| fandeli | by the way I'm using Ubuntu 10.04 | 21:34 |
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| rrix | lbt: ping | 21:45 |
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| zumbi | hi! on my meego installation i am getting this process /usr/bin/python /usr/libexec/telepathy-butter | 21:53 |
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| zumbi | i have not opened telepathy, nor any message system, which also slows down the computer very badly | 21:54 |
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| zumbi | i am getting messages without being connected | 21:54 |
| zumbi | does this sound familiar? | 21:54 |
| Stskeeps | butterfly, msn | 21:55 |
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| TSCHAKeee2 | vgrade: are you around? | 21:58 |
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| TSCHAKeee2 | anyone in here put a postinstall that compiles something in their kickstart files? | 21:59 |
| stephg | TSCHAKeee2: ew | 22:00 |
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| TSCHAKeee2 | stephg: compiling emgd_drm | 22:01 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | stephg: no choice. | 22:01 |
| stephg | can't really help you I'm afraid but the one thing I'd say is that you may have better luck scripting it all and then running that script from postinst | 22:02 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | stephg: it's complaining about not finding cc1, which is odd, because i am running it in %post with chroot, and gcc is fully installed, with cc1 in the right place. | 22:02 |
| stephg | it'll do funny things with environment variables I'd have thought | 22:02 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | uff. | 22:02 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | okay, what i'll do is build, and put it in a tarball | 22:02 |
| thiago_home | cc1 is the first stage c compiler | 22:02 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | and unpack that in postinst | 22:03 |
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| stephg | it's all a bit messy :( | 22:03 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | yeah, i am aware... i guess mic2 is futzing with the path | 22:03 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | and other env | 22:03 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | :/ | 22:03 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | the plot gets better and bettere | 22:03 |
| stephg | well, it'd be tedious but env et al. will tell you what you do and don't have at postinst time | 22:04 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | yeah, good call. | 22:04 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | i'll just see if i can get away with pointing the module environment variables at the build root | 22:04 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | and trying to build modules, and putting them into a tarball to extract during image creation | 22:05 |
| * TSCHAKeee2 has to do this because..well..the emgd repository disappeared :P | 22:05 | |
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| TSCHAKeee2 | damn you intel | 22:05 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | :P | 22:05 |
| stephg | :( | 22:05 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | but that wasn't as almost comical as the way EMGD is distributed | 22:05 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | the linux package, is distributed as a windows executable | 22:05 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | wrapped in an eclipse built java project | 22:06 |
| stephg | oo | 22:06 |
| stephg | really encouraging you to use it | 22:06 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | that builds a driver construction set, so you can wrap up your driver and configuration into a tarball | 22:06 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | i'm just in awe at the bureaucratic abstraction | 22:06 |
| stephg | to copy in a preinst, deflate postint and compile | 22:06 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | yup | 22:06 |
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| stephg | love it | 22:06 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | but i have to use this driver | 22:07 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | to get 2D, 3D, and video coprocessor accelleration | 22:07 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | out of my Z510/US15W based Archos 9 | 22:07 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | beautiful hardware..but man, that driver... #@(#@%(@#%@# ! :P | 22:07 |
| * stephg consoles TSCHAKeee2 | 22:07 | |
| TSCHAKeee2 | at least Archos didn't put EFI on the Archos 9 | 22:08 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | or i would be laughing and crying hysterically | 22:08 |
| stephg | rocking back and forth | 22:08 |
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| TSCHAKeee2 | of which, yes... the EMGD construction set even includes an EFI driver maker :P | 22:08 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | EFI.. sheesh.. the operating system..that..really isn't an operating system at all..nope, just an overgrown bootloader | 22:09 |
| stephg | heh | 22:09 |
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| stephg | beyond my mac mini I've never actually seen an EFI box | 22:10 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | I have a few bits of embedded gear that uses EFI | 22:10 |
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| TSCHAKeee2 | my o2 Joggler, for example | 22:10 |
| zumbi | Stskeeps: yes, it might be it, i am not sure, but it quite hits performance and i did not turn this service on | 22:10 |
| stephg | joggler uses EIF? didn't know that | 22:10 |
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| zumbi | Stskeeps: looks like a bug to me | 22:10 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | stephg: yup. it's one of the reasons it boots as fast as it does. | 22:10 |
| zumbi | Stskeeps: maybe i should try to get more info and report? or are you aware of that? | 22:11 |
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| Stskeeps | zumbi: report it, i'm not really into netbook so i don't know :) | 22:14 |
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| stephg | TSCHAKeee2 :on anaconda on other platforms (i.e. redhat) I vaguely recall that you could whack a sleep 99999 into %post and therefor poke around the env before the reboot | 22:14 |
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| TSCHAKeee2 | stephg: that's...a good idea | 22:15 |
| stephg | don't know if that would help you with MIC, but if you have access to another virtual term it may help | 22:15 |
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| TSCHAKeee2 | yeah, i can deal | 22:15 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | thanks | 22:15 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | i know emgd works with this device, because somebody took vgrade's stuff and made an archos9 netbook image | 22:16 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | so i just have to get the damn thing massaged in properly | 22:16 |
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| * TSCHAKeee2 is actually bastardizing Handset | 22:17 | |
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| stephg | heh | 22:17 |
| Xisdibik | Stskeeps: are you still at work? | 22:18 |
| Stskeeps | i'm always at work | 22:18 |
| Xisdibik | You live at Nokia? :o | 22:18 |
| Stskeeps | no, my couch | 22:18 |
| Xisdibik | couch at home, or at your office? | 22:19 |
| Xisdibik | rather, is the couch in a single family unit, or a big office building x) | 22:19 |
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| dm8tbr | TSCHAKeee2: handset on the a9 might look... interesting... | 22:22 |
| Stskeeps | working from home :) | 22:22 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | dm8tbr: i'm using it as the basis for my new orbiter research. | 22:22 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | dm8tbr: going to change it quite a bit | 22:22 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | but i am starting with mcompositor and what's already been done, as a base | 22:22 |
| * dm8tbr is waiting for the A101 :) | 22:22 | |
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| dm8tbr | and if I'm lucky I'll have SGX working by that time on my A5it | 22:23 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | dm8tbr: I am hoping that my work on the a9 will move over to the current-gen a7 and a5 as well... | 22:24 |
| dm8tbr | how so? the hardware is completely different, or do you mean UI wise? | 22:24 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | dm8tbr: meego runs on both ia32 and arm | 22:25 |
| dm8tbr | I am aware of that | 22:25 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | i can cross compile | 22:25 |
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| TSCHAKeee2 | the challenge for me, will be developing a UI that provides a smooth user experience on the slower ARMs | 22:26 |
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| dm8tbr | you mean gen6? I've written that off in terms of meego, no SGX core | 22:27 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | hm | 22:28 |
| dm8tbr | the first OMAP3 devices were generation 6, Archos5 and Archos7, aka IMT aka TIM | 22:29 |
| dm8tbr | then came gen7, Archos5 IT | 22:29 |
| dm8tbr | and now there is gen8, A28, A32, A43, A70, A101 | 22:29 |
| dm8tbr | the ARM cores run respectively at 600, 800 and 1000MHz | 22:30 |
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| TSCHAKeee2 | the cortex-a8 has an SGX core. that's what the gen6's have in them | 22:31 |
| dm8tbr | no, gen6 does not have SGX | 22:31 |
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| TSCHAKeee2 | ok | 22:33 |
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| lbt | rrix: pong | 22:43 |
| rrix | lbt: You were the fellow who gave me a login for the Meego buildservice, correct? | 22:44 |
| lbt | yup | 22:44 |
| rrix | Okay... I had been distracted by $real_life for a few weeks, and tried to jump back in recently, but I can't login to the webui on buld.meego.com with the details you gave me.. unless I changed my password or something silly like that. | 22:45 |
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| lbt | I'll mail you | 22:47 |
| rrix | Ok, that'd be much appreciated :) | 22:48 |
| lbt | done | 22:48 |
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| rrix | lbt: much appreciated, danke! | 22:57 |
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| CosmoHill | hey lbt | 22:58 |
| lbt | o/ | 22:59 |
| CosmoHill | how are you? | 22:59 |
| rrix | lbt: build.meego.com is still giving me a 401 on the webui login with the new details :( | 22:59 |
| lbt | ah. that's because you want build.obs.maemo.org | 23:00 |
| lbt | you only get build.meego.com when you have commit rights to a core package | 23:00 |
| rrix | d'oh! | 23:01 |
| rrix | There we go :) | 23:02 |
| * rrix laughs | 23:02 | |
| rrix | See, now I feel silly. | 23:02 |
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| rrix | Okay, i'm in, wonderful :) | 23:06 |
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| CosmoHill | rrix: congrats | 23:07 |
| rrix | heh | 23:07 |
| CosmoHill | now start programming! | 23:07 |
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| vgrade_ | TSCHAKeee2, hi, | 23:18 |
| stapale | exit | 23:19 |
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| TSCHAKeee2 | vgrade_: hey, am putting together a new ks for the archos9 that uses a tarball generated by the EMGD vendor software... I've gotten all the way down to building the emgd_drm module.. but it's failing inside the %post block not being able to find cc1.. so I think i'll just try to build the module outside of MIC2.... | 23:22 |
| vgrade_ | ok, i've never tried doing the compile inside the post | 23:22 |
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| TSCHAKeee2 | vgrade_ it doesn't seem to like that at all | 23:24 |
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| TSCHAKeee2 | vgrade_: do you just build the module out of the build process and then just copy it into the right place during %post ? | 23:25 |
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| vgrade_ | with the iegd driver we built the driver into the kernel and then pulled that into the fs in the post | 23:27 |
| * CosmoHill tugs on vgrade's tail | 23:28 | |
| vgrade_ | ouch | 23:28 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | vgrade_: okay | 23:28 |
| vgrade_ | I never got the iegd module to build, things may be easier with emgd | 23:28 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | vgrade_: i wanna bitch slap whoever thought it was a swell idea to wrap the LINUX drivers in an ECLIPSE JAVA APP, wrapped in a WINDOWS INSTALLER (regarding emgd) :P | 23:29 |
| vgrade_ | do I remember vlj doing a compile of the nvidia driver within the ks? | 23:29 |
| vgrade_ | did you see the joggler ks files on jogglerwiki | 23:31 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | vgrade_: is there not going to be a meego repository anymore? | 23:31 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | yeah, but I thought the emgd repository had gone byebye | 23:31 |
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| vgrade_ | no, I just meant as a guide | 23:33 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | ahhh yes | 23:33 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | i've been snipping from it | 23:33 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | from BuBu's Archos9 ks | 23:33 |
| vgrade_ | btw, the emgd beta is still out there | 23:33 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | and the official handset ks files | 23:33 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | i've got it putting all the packages i need in etc... just need to get emgd working | 23:34 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | i even have an emgd xorg.conf for the archos 9's display | 23:34 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | which works | 23:34 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | it's so @#(#@(@# close i can taste it | 23:34 |
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| vgrade_ | TSCHAKeee2, http://wiki.meego.com/File:Nvidia-meego2.ks | 23:41 |
| vgrade_ | downloads then makes the nvidia kernel driver module | 23:41 |
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| vgrade_ | wget, gcc, make added to the filesystem which allows a build to happen in post | 23:42 |
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| sofar | vgrade_: can you make an image/ks against trunk? | 23:45 |
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| vgrade_ | sofar, what target, ux? | 23:48 |
| CosmoHill | hey sofar | 23:48 |
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| Khertan_ | Hi | 23:52 |
| Khertan_ | lbt: any plan to update the qt libs in the meego current target on the meego obs ? | 23:53 |
| thiago_home | isn't it 4.7.0 already? | 23:54 |
| niala | nop | 23:54 |
| Khertan_ | thiago_home: not on the community meego obs | 23:56 |
| Khertan_ | so it s prevent me to finish the pyside compilation | 23:56 |
| Khertan_ | as a class is missing | 23:56 |
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| thiago_home | which one? | 23:58 |
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