| Jaffa | lbt: Feels like Friday. | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| lbt | can't think why... :D | 00:00 |
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| lcuk | Jaffa, I did a round of English ales earlier, but theres still some in the barrel, I guess you need one? | 00:02 |
| lcuk | lbt, for you too? | 00:02 |
| lbt | yellow booze for me | 00:02 |
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| lcuk | lbt hmm, the only yellow fluids I know isn't booze | 00:03 |
| lcuk | you can get your own | 00:04 |
| lbt | think christmas... | 00:04 |
| lcuk | thats worse | 00:04 |
| lcuk | "don't eat the yellow snow" | 00:04 |
| lbt | if it doesn't have an umbrella or cherries ... it's not proper booze :) | 00:04 |
| lcuk | *poker face* | 00:05 |
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| Jaffa | lcuk: Please. Though I've just had a glass of milk and a Time Out, so'd probably curdle. | 00:06 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: Some Lady Gaga to go with the dodgy drink? ;-) | 00:06 |
| lcuk | egg nog! | 00:07 |
| lbt | \o/ | 00:07 |
| lcuk | it took a damned google search :| | 00:08 |
| lcuk | "christmas yellow drink" | 00:08 |
| lbt | you need more cocktails in your life | 00:08 |
| lcuk | really dam ned obvious | 00:08 |
| lcuk | at least I know what not to be when I grow up | 00:08 |
| * lcuk strikes barkeeper off list | 00:08 | |
| lbt | you'd drop the bottles | 00:08 |
| lcuk | yeah | 00:09 |
| lcuk | getting better tho, havent dorpped the sugar in a while | 00:09 |
| lcuk | dropped | 00:09 |
| Jaffa | Sounds like a prison euphemism. | 00:09 |
| lcuk | Jaffa, the sugar jar is the one noticable time my finger still cannot grip properly | 00:10 |
| lcuk | and I have dropped it quite often | 00:11 |
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| * GAN900 is still at work. :( | 00:14 | |
| GAN900 | Damn timezones | 00:14 |
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| Mat_Matan | Good night | 00:18 |
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| CHTboy | is it easy to install meego on Nokia N900? | 00:22 |
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| rtyler | CHTboy: do you like making phone calls? | 00:22 |
| CHTboy | yes, | 00:22 |
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| rtyler | then steer clear for now | 00:22 |
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| Jaffa | s/making phone calls/doing almost anything/ ;-) | 00:25 |
| rtyler | heh | 00:25 |
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| rtyler | Jaffa: using my n900 is overrated anyways | 00:27 |
| GAN900 | CHTboy, yes it's easy, but as rtyler illustrates, it's not even vaguely close to usable. | 00:28 |
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| GAN900 | Mark's quoting is the worst. | 00:42 |
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| rtyler | "what do you mean?" | 00:45 |
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| GordonS | so I have built an xorg server package with the support necessary for nVidia: https://build.meego.com/package/show?package=xorg-x11-server&project=home%3Agordons | 00:46 |
| GordonS | so now what is the URL to add to my zypper repo list?? | 00:46 |
| lbt | GAN900 whatImeanisthatwhen rtyler saidthataboutMarkhewasright | 00:46 |
| GordonS | so that I can actually *download* what it built? | 00:47 |
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| GAN900 | lbt, clap clap clap. | 00:59 |
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| GAN900 | lbt, again, thank you for being awesome. | 00:59 |
| lbt | GAN900: thankyou for the support :) .... I've written so many mails tonight... which one? | 01:00 |
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| GAN900 | lbt, the one with the spec citations in response to Mark's email, in particular. | 01:07 |
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| Jaffa | lbt: Isn't that the one you pull back from later? ;-) | 01:09 |
| lbt | no | 01:09 |
| Jaffa | Ah, cool. | 01:09 |
| csdb | GordonS: I can't see that machine to point you to it, but if you click on the repository name of your package (i.e. the clickable blue string to the left of the green succeeded msg) that should take you to a download page | 01:09 |
| lbt | that was to arjan | 01:09 |
| Jaffa | Too many emails ;-) | 01:09 |
| GAN900 | Good lord | 01:09 |
| b0tz | When is a meego tablet supposed to come out | 01:09 |
| GAN900 | Quim's email killed Modest. | 01:09 |
| pupnik | when it's done | 01:09 |
| lbt | I rebutted his arguments but it didn't add anything | 01:09 |
| wmarone | b0tz: if you're in Germany, you can order the WeTab now :) | 01:09 |
| b0tz | Im not sadly. Im in USA. | 01:10 |
| csdb | GordonS: from there you should see a "go to download repository" link. That's the link that you need to add | 01:10 |
| Jaffa | b0tz: WeTab, apparently. But who knows if it'll be MeeGo Compliant or not ;-) | 01:10 |
| b0tz | ah. | 01:10 |
| wmarone | Jaffa: which is a good question :) | 01:10 |
| pupnik | wmarone: the wetab company has had a few bad starts, let's hope they pull this off | 01:10 |
| GAN900 | Ah, so the spec draft doesn't actually have anything to do with the current reasoning? | 01:10 |
| Jaffa | GAN900: Correct. | 01:10 |
| lbt | GAN900: who'da thunk it | 01:10 |
| slavik | so, any insider info anyone is willing to realease about the next awesome meego phone? | 01:11 |
| wmarone | though according to the Nokia guy demoing the thing on Tuesday, their changes to the tablet UI are going to be rolled into the reference UI | 01:11 |
| slavik | e90 is driving nuts and I don't want android | 01:11 |
| Jaffa | GAN900: Emails you've probably not got to yet say thinks like "this will definitely be removed in the next draft" | 01:11 |
| wmarone | so I'm waiting to see that happen | 01:11 |
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| lbt | slavik: yes... it'll be compliant!! | 01:11 |
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| slavik | lbt: huh? | 01:11 |
| GAN900 | Stuff like this makes people burn out on your project. | 01:11 |
| Jaffa | GAN900: Indeed. I might have already done so, but I suspect people wouldn't have cared. So I need to put more effort in so that it's noticed when I do ;-) | 01:12 |
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| GAN900 | Jaffa, ehehe | 01:12 |
| b0tz | slavik, e90 isnt any good? | 01:12 |
| GAN900 | Burnouts should be useful | 01:12 |
| slavik | b0tz: it's old at this point | 01:12 |
| b0tz | ah, i thought this was the newer one coming out | 01:13 |
| b0tz | replacement to the n900 | 01:13 |
| slavik | b0tz: if you want a nice phone now, I think n900 is nice | 01:13 |
| slavik | b0tz: e90 is last of the communicators. :) | 01:13 |
| slavik | last most advanced, e71 is a refresh imo | 01:13 |
| GAN900 | The fact that the majority of unpaid Maemo contributors actively want nothing to do with MeeGo should be sending up flags for somebody. | 01:13 |
| b0tz | ahh, I dont want to spend 400-500$ on n900 and then have a better\thinner\cooler looking meego phone come out | 01:13 |
| slavik | and e90 was released in like 2006 | 01:13 |
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| slavik | GAN900: you read what an ex Nokia dev said? it was on engadget I think. | 01:14 |
| GAN900 | slavik, about hardware ruling? | 01:14 |
| slavik | yes | 01:14 |
| GAN900 | Yeah | 01:15 |
| b0tz | N900 does look awesome, i mean it can crack wifi, has android ports, it seems almost OVERLY customizable | 01:15 |
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| slavik | things like that an Nokia not really talking about MeeGo phones is kind of "scary" | 01:15 |
| GAN900 | What compounds the damage of that mentality is that I don't think the hardware people have any connection to reality. | 01:15 |
| b0tz | but i dont want to be left behind when a better one comes out in next 6 months | 01:15 |
| GAN900 | I mean, has anybody here ever seen a Nokia hardware person? | 01:15 |
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| slavik | b0tz: and n900 can run full version of firefox inside of a chrooted debian install inside maemo5 | 01:16 |
| slavik | GAN900: they exists? | 01:16 |
| wmarone | I met a Nokia software person! | 01:16 |
| b0tz | yeah, thats awesome | 01:16 |
| GAN900 | slavik, well, phones keep coming out, so I'm forced to assume so. | 01:16 |
| b0tz | ah slavik i was thhinking abou the n9 | 01:16 |
| b0tz | not the e90 | 01:16 |
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| GAN900 | wmarone, I've met several. | 01:16 |
| slavik | GAN900: I met a leprechaun, but not a Nokia hardware person. | 01:17 |
| slavik | :P | 01:17 |
| b0tz | The n9 looks awesome | 01:17 |
| slavik | b0tz: ahh, I decided not to waste my time with due to the reported 800px width screen and lack of OMAP4 | 01:17 |
| b0tz | ah i see.. | 01:17 |
| slavik | although the keyboard is almost as good as the e90 | 01:17 |
| b0tz | one thing i always look for in my phone is a physical qwerty keyuboard | 01:17 |
| slavik | GAN900: what happened to the hardware people that designed the e90? | 01:17 |
| GAN900 | slavik, probably in the gulag. | 01:18 |
| slavik | I actually like the physical design/layout of sidekick ... | 01:18 |
| slavik | GAN900: really? :( IMO, that is the best phone with keyboard design after sidekick. | 01:18 |
| b0tz | Wow! | 01:20 |
| b0tz | i just ofund the tablet i want. :D http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/01/meego-moorestown-powered-tablet-hands-on/ | 01:20 |
| slavik | is it atom? then do not want | 01:20 |
| b0tz | n the hardware front, the 1.5GHz Moorestown chip seemed to be super snappy and we witnessed it play a 720p clip smoothly. The actual 10-inch Quanta Redvale tablet was incredibly thin and light, but the viewing angles of the reference design's screen were poor to say the least. | 01:20 |
| GAN900 | Entering into a discussion pre-entrenched was a big problem in Maemo. | 01:21 |
| GAN900 | Clearly things have not (and likely will not) improve in MeeGo. | 01:21 |
| GAN900 | I, for one, wish you the best of luck with your "open" project. | 01:21 |
| MNZ | GAN900, I don't get it | 01:21 |
| MNZ | I thought you and Stskeeps were basically trying to push maemo folks to meego, but now that I started idling here.... wth? What are you trying to achieve exactly? | 01:22 |
| GAN900 | MNZ, I'm trying to burn myself out here, apparently. | 01:24 |
| GAN900 | MNZ, depends on why you're here. | 01:24 |
| GAN900 | Consumers will probably have a ball. | 01:24 |
| MNZ | I have had the N900 for about a month, and I believe I have been an active contributor | 01:25 |
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| slavik | b0tz: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sidekick_LX.png I dare you tell me that is bad layout :P | 01:25 |
| b0tz | wow lol | 01:25 |
| MNZ | And I don't really know why I don't want to de Meego, but I guess it's just rpm-hate :P | 01:25 |
| b0tz | do people still use sidekicks? | 01:25 |
| slavik | MNZ: you have meego running on the n900? | 01:25 |
| MNZ | slavik, #maemo ftw | 01:25 |
| sofar | now now, why all the depressed talk? lol | 01:26 |
| slavik | b0tz: no idea, but I think that it has the best idea for screen design (the way it swivels to reveal the keyboard) | 01:26 |
| slavik | MNZ: I see ... | 01:26 |
| b0tz | yeah, ever since i saw those sidekick commericals i thought wow that is awesome, wish i could try it | 01:26 |
| b0tz | never had t-mobile though. | 01:26 |
| slavik | tmobile is teh suck | 01:26 |
| slavik | trust me on that | 01:26 |
| MNZ | but the question still stands GAN900, what, if anything are you trying to achieve? Besides trying to burn yourself, that is. | 01:27 |
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| GAN900 | MNZ, avoiding the mistakes Nokia made and maemo.org made. | 01:27 |
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| GAN900 | Trying to use the things we learned there in MeeGo. | 01:27 |
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| slavik | sidekick with omap4, keyboard layout of e90, iphone4 screen, meego on top ... done! | 01:28 |
| GAN900 | But the whole organization seems to be resistant to that input. | 01:28 |
| slavik | also, question on meego, what language is the primary language for applications? | 01:28 |
| sofar | primary? | 01:28 |
| slavik | sofar: maybe not primary, but mostly used is a better term | 01:28 |
| sofar | there's a list of "supported" languages, there's about 16-18 of them | 01:28 |
| sofar | most people code in english | 01:29 |
| sofar | that way, review is easy :) | 01:29 |
| wmarone | for /official/ support it's Qt (C++) but others can work | 01:29 |
| slavik | like android is mainly java, although possible to use perl and python and others | 01:29 |
| sofar | oh programming languages, lol | 01:29 |
| slavik | sofar: :(, I meant programming languages. | 01:29 |
| slavik | gah! | 01:29 |
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| wmarone | and unlike Android you aren't required to use Java to access the GUI | 01:29 |
| sofar | MTF is the preferred language, it's the Qt variant for MeeGo | 01:29 |
| mikeleib | MTF is a library built upon Qt | 01:30 |
| mikeleib | MTF is used for handsets | 01:30 |
| mikeleib | MTF is used in IVI, I think as well | 01:30 |
| slavik | wmarone: aparently on Android, ASE allows you to use any language with full API access. | 01:30 |
| MNZ | GAN900, I really don't have a clear view of who/what/where the 'organisation' is, so I guess I'll quite down for now. But 'I, for one, wish you the best of luck with your "open" project'? | 01:30 |
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| slavik | mtf = meego touch framework? | 01:33 |
| sofar | yes | 01:33 |
| slavik | also, qemu image of meego, can a realworld performance factor be calculated? (like % of real CPU/GPU speed, etc, or something). | 01:34 |
| mikeleib | doubtful | 01:34 |
| sofar | it can, but would be extremely complex | 01:34 |
| sofar | can you account for activity on the host system? | 01:35 |
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| thiago_home | slavik: if you want real-world data, use real-world devices | 01:37 |
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| sofar | can't really do power consumption numbers in qemu either | 01:40 |
| sofar | yet, that's vital | 01:40 |
| thiago_home | you can get proxies for the data | 01:41 |
| thiago_home | the number of wakeups for power consumptiop | 01:41 |
| thiago_home | instructions for execution speed | 01:41 |
| sofar | sure, but, they don't tell you if the audio chipset is left on 100% all the time for instance | 01:41 |
| mikeleib | the interplay between CPU and GPU is something that is going to be near impossible to get right without real hardware | 01:42 |
| sofar | maybe not as important from an app writer perspective :) | 01:42 |
| thiago_home | only if you had a full-device emulator | 01:42 |
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| thiago_home | emulate the instructions as well as the entire hardware | 01:42 |
| mikeleib | what is fast on one GPU may be slow on another. There may be software paths or memory bandwidth problems that make comparisons difficult | 01:42 |
| thiago_home | qemu is a processor emulator | 01:42 |
| thiago_home | mikeleib: oh how you're right... | 01:42 |
| * mikeleib is flattered to hear thiago_home say so | 01:43 | |
| mikeleib | and... while thiago_home is 'ere | 01:43 |
| thiago_home | uh oh | 01:43 |
| mikeleib | is it proper to use qtn_ prefix in qtTrId id's? as in MLabel(qtTrId("qtn_label_id")) | 01:44 |
| slavik | not power consumption, I am looking mostly for things like if an opengl program runs at X frames per second, what I could expect on some reference hardware that I know specs of. | 01:44 |
| mikeleib | or is that a nokiaism? | 01:44 |
| thiago_home | we don't use that anywhere in Qt code | 01:44 |
| slavik | and I can account for activity on host system | 01:44 |
| thiago_home | the Nokia people asked for it because of old translation practices | 01:44 |
| thiago_home | we fought them hard | 01:44 |
| thiago_home | we told them it was obsolete technology | 01:44 |
| thiago_home | we lost | 01:44 |
| * mikeleib is marking his MTF apps just as such | 01:44 | |
| thiago_home | in the end we gave in and let them use IDs | 01:44 |
| thiago_home | there's no namespace management. We in Qt really don't care about those IDs. | 01:45 |
| thiago_home | in our opinion, you shouldn't use them. | 01:45 |
| trevorj | Is there any rough idea of when the first MeeGo phone (even the intel dev phone) will be available to the public (me) ? | 01:45 |
| GAN900 | MNZ, wish MeeGo the best of luck with their open project that's turning out to be much less of one than we might've hoped. | 01:45 |
| sofar | trevorj: can't say, no | 01:45 |
| mikeleib | GAN900: patches accepted | 01:45 |
| GAN900 | MNZ, notably the preordained decisions that seems to be involved with the specs. | 01:45 |
| sofar | in general, nobody in here will not be able to give any deadlines, release dates whatsoever | 01:46 |
| slavik | what about the blaze platform from TI? anyone run MeeGo on that? | 01:46 |
| trevorj | sofar: I really, really want a moorestown phone, even if I have to dial via AT commands | 01:46 |
| trevorj | sofar: ;) | 01:46 |
| GAN900 | mikeleib, I deal with community and organizational issues, not code. :) | 01:46 |
| sofar | you're making it hard for us by asking :) | 01:46 |
| * mikeleib deals in code.. sorry | 01:46 | |
| slavik | trevorj: I am with you. | 01:46 |
| slavik | well, not an intel phone though | 01:46 |
| wmarone | GAN900: has anyone called them on that? | 01:46 |
| thiago_home | trevorj: you can buy from Aava | 01:46 |
| mikeleib | thiago_home: do the id's passed into qtTrId need to be globally unique to an app? | 01:46 |
| * wmarone hasn't had time to follow the thread | 01:46 | |
| trevorj | slavik: why not if I may ask? | 01:46 |
| thiago_home | they're not cheap, but you can buy them | 01:46 |
| trevorj | thiago_home: oh? what's not cheap? | 01:47 |
| slavik | trevorj: arm > intel on mobile/embed IMO | 01:47 |
| thiago_home | I have seen another dev phone from another company too | 01:47 |
| thiago_home | also not cheap | 01:47 |
| Jaffa | mikeleib: I deal in all three, but as a coder I don't want to bundle libxyz inside my package when J Smith has already done the same :-/ | 01:47 |
| thiago_home | trevorj: the aava | 01:47 |
| trevorj | slavik: I'm a big fan of omap4, I feel you | 01:47 |
| GAN900 | wmarone, lbt is fighting the good fight. | 01:47 |
| GAN900 | wmarone, among others. | 01:47 |
| wmarone | what's lbt's name? | 01:47 |
| mikeleib | Jaffa: lsb wars all over again | 01:47 |
| mikeleib | it's the same principle | 01:47 |
| trevorj | thiago_home: no, I meant, what cost is considered not cheap | 01:48 |
| trevorj | thiago_home: =) | 01:48 |
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| GAN900 | wmarone, David Greaves. | 01:48 |
| wmarone | trevorj: $2k + per unit, iirc | 01:48 |
| wmarone | GAN900: oh ok | 01:48 |
| trevorj | wmarone: wow, that's not cheap | 01:48 |
| mikeleib | considering what you get, I'd say not | 01:48 |
| wmarone | trevorj: no, but that's a devkit for you :) | 01:48 |
| GAN900 | wmarone, mostly the only emails in that thread really worth listening to. ;) | 01:48 |
| Jaffa | Right, bed time. | 01:48 |
| thiago_home | trevorj: $2k | 01:48 |
| * wmarone notes that the Zoom II platforms are easily $1200+ | 01:48 | |
| berndhs | can you make phone calls with the aava ? | 01:48 |
| GAN900 | Jaffa, later. | 01:48 |
| trevorj | Are they so much because of the limited build quantity? | 01:49 |
| Jaffa | GAN900: Aww, meany. Anyway; you need to read the other to appreciate lbt ;-) | 01:49 |
| thiago_home | berndhs: yes, if you code the app to make calls | 01:49 |
| thiago_home | berndhs: the HW is there | 01:49 |
| GAN900 | Jaffa, of course. | 01:49 |
| Jaffa | g'night | 01:49 |
| GAN900 | Jaffa, and your emails too. :P | 01:49 |
| ljp | thiago_home: I thought the modem driver was not finished | 01:49 |
| Jaffa | GAN900: Meeting minutes from earlier over in #maemo BTW | 01:49 |
| GAN900 | Jaffa, saw it, thanks. | 01:49 |
| Jaffa | Right. Gone. Properly. | 01:49 |
| mikeleib | the app to make calls is there.. the plumbing below isn't | 01:49 |
| thiago_home | ljp: I heard it can make calls. | 01:50 |
| thiago_home | second-hand information | 01:50 |
| ljp | oh ok. maybe I will try a new image | 01:50 |
| slavik | honestly, I just want a phone with a terminal that has the needed drivers. that would be hardcore | 01:50 |
| thiago_home | making calls is not the problem | 01:50 |
| thiago_home | hanging up is | 01:50 |
| thiago_home | if you can't hang up, your phone bill will explode... | 01:50 |
| berndhs | faraday cage ? | 01:51 |
| ljp | not my bill :) | 01:51 |
| thiago_home | you can pull the battery out, but only if it's not screwed in | 01:51 |
| slavik | minicom on the phone with a terminal, done! | 01:51 |
| slavik | true geek phone | 01:52 |
| ljp | ya, not screwed in. just like my desktop machines | 01:52 |
| slavik | BYODGUI, Bring Your Own Damn GUI | 01:52 |
| berndhs | don't need gui for phone calls, just audio | 01:52 |
| slavik | yes | 01:53 |
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| slavik | berndhs: hence: minicom and terminal | 01:53 |
| * thiago_home also thinks that all laptops should have a handle | 01:53 | |
| lcuk | the first hack for an all audio phone would be someone setting the ringtone to say "cancel call" | 01:53 |
| slavik | thiago_home: and a hand crank when you need a quick charge and not near outlet | 01:53 |
| mikeleib | thiago_home: for better throwing | 01:53 |
| thiago_home | my laptop has a lot of grease from my palms today, after two days carrying it around in Nokia World | 01:54 |
| ScottishDuck | :/ | 01:54 |
| thiago_home | I'll blog tomorrow about it (impressions from a developer's point of view) | 01:54 |
| slavik | seriously though, a phone can fit a 512MB DRAM chip on the PCB, hardware people can put that in and just let the software people do software | 01:55 |
| lcuk | thiago_home, shame I missed you, hope you enjoyed London | 01:56 |
| thiago_home | lcuk: it was good | 01:56 |
| thiago_home | nice weather, for a change | 01:56 |
| slavik | fog wasn't black this time? | 01:56 |
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| lcuk | cool stuff, i've seen and heard some good stuff come out of NW so far | 01:57 |
| thiago_home | yeah, no smog | 01:57 |
| thiago_home | I am pissed off about one thing though | 01:57 |
| slavik | lcuk: any meego stuff comming? | 01:57 |
| slavik | coming* | 01:57 |
| thiago_home | people who attended my presentation got N8s | 01:57 |
| thiago_home | but not me! | 01:57 |
| lcuk | haha th | 01:57 |
| ljp | heh | 01:57 |
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| lcuk | thiago_home, | 01:57 |
| thiago_home | slavik: no, nothing about meego during the conf, except to say that there would be no meego announcements | 01:57 |
| slavik | thiago_home: I'll listen for you drone on for hours, can I get an N8, too? | 01:57 |
| * mikeleib doesn't want an N8 | 01:58 | |
| * mikeleib wants an N9 | 01:58 | |
| lcuk | slavik, you have meego now | 01:58 |
| lcuk | go install it hack on it | 01:58 |
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| lcuk | etc | 01:58 |
| slavik | lcuk: on what phone though? | 01:58 |
| thiago_home | mikeleib: that's my rationalisation :-) | 01:58 |
| * ljp has an n8 | 01:58 | |
| lcuk | who is gonna make the first cross meego/maemo app? | 01:58 |
| thiago_home | even though there's no such thing as an N9, yadda yadda yadda | 01:58 |
| slavik | ljp: impressions? | 01:58 |
| lcuk | something that will run on both happily | 01:58 |
| mikeleib | lcuk: emacs.. already been done | 01:58 |
| lcuk | mikeleib, sure | 01:58 |
| ljp | slavik: i like it | 01:58 |
| * thiago_home looks at the prototype that he's been allowed to carry home | 01:58 | |
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| lcuk | thiago_home, thats why you didn't get an n8 :P | 01:59 |
| slavik | thiago_home: remember the gizmodo iPhone4 prototype thing? | 01:59 |
| thiago_home | slavik: yeah | 01:59 |
| ljp | thiago_home: maybe you need to be an engineer :) | 01:59 |
| thiago_home | slavik: wtf was the dude doing with it in a bar? | 01:59 |
| slavik | about to be N9 ;) just tell me what bars you frequent :) | 01:59 |
| thiago_home | slavik: and more importantly, why did he take it out of the bag in a bar? | 01:59 |
| ScottishDuck | thiago_home confirmed for having n9 <posts on tech blogs and causes media storm> | 02:00 |
| thiago_home | ScottishDuck: there is no such thing as N9 | 02:00 |
| thiago_home | Nokia has not announced such a device | 02:00 |
| ScottishDuck | :) | 02:00 |
| thiago_home | :-) | 02:00 |
| thiago_home | ljp: did you know that Nokia prototypes don't have just one codename? They have two? | 02:00 |
| slavik | seriously though, is the marketing department at Nokia dead? | 02:00 |
| slavik | no hype, no sales | 02:00 |
| thiago_home | slavik: sales for what? There is no N9. | 02:01 |
| ljp | thiago_home: nope | 02:01 |
| slavik | thiago_home: there won't be without any hype | 02:01 |
| thiago_home | ljp: yeah, turns out that they do. There's a secondary codename... | 02:01 |
| slavik | n10? | 02:01 |
| thiago_home | slavik: there won't be any hype without an announcement :-) | 02:01 |
| thiago_home | slavik: it's like warp factors now | 02:01 |
| thiago_home | slavik: no Warp 10, no N10 | 02:01 |
| ScottishDuck | you can generate plenty of hype with the help of mr blurrycam | 02:02 |
| wmarone | ugh | 02:02 |
| slavik | thiago_home: but if there is no announcement now, when could one possibly happen? | 02:02 |
| wmarone | stupid vnc, will have to read this thread at home | 02:02 |
| lcuk | slavik, pick a device thats out there now. | 02:02 |
| wmarone | I don't like Arjan's last response though | 02:02 |
| b0tz | n900 ^ | 02:02 |
| lcuk | and run meego on it :) | 02:02 |
| wmarone | but I need more context | 02:02 |
| lcuk | any device | 02:02 |
| thiago_home | slavik: I don't know and if even if I did, I wouldn't be allowed to say. | 02:02 |
| slavik | so far, every company having an expo type thing always make latest/greatest announcements there | 02:02 |
| b0tz | Does n900 have a STABLE build of meego? | 02:02 |
| b0tz | that can run | 02:02 |
| berndhs | if you deny something loud enough, people start believing it | 02:03 |
| wmarone | b0tz: well, run yes. do useful things, no | 02:03 |
| lcuk | slavik, meego goes beyond one thing, have people run linux on the new iphone yet? | 02:03 |
| * ljp tries to find flash instructions for aava | 02:03 | |
| thiago_home | slavik: the sooner I can give you an answer is the moment an announcement is made | 02:03 |
| b0tz | Ah.. | 02:03 |
| thiago_home | ljp: dd onto SD card | 02:03 |
| lcuk | if so, can meego go ontop of it? | 02:03 |
| thiago_home | ljp: don't try flashing. I bricked two Aavas trying that. | 02:03 |
| ljp | oh thats right | 02:03 |
| ljp | heh | 02:03 |
| wmarone | thiago_home: no jtag to recover an Aava? | 02:03 |
| slavik | too bad my e90 can't run meego :( | 02:03 |
| thiago_home | wmarone: I'm sure there are | 02:03 |
| thiago_home | wmarone: the device was actually stuck in "firmware recovery mode" | 02:04 |
| wmarone | ah | 02:04 |
| thiago_home | wmarone: but without a "firmware recovery tool" it's as good as bricked | 02:04 |
| lcuk | thiago_home, theres a guy building libmeegotouch on ubuntu | 02:04 |
| lcuk | ive asked him to keep the tweaks and twiddles he needs and submit them as a potential patch/MR | 02:04 |
| thiago_home | slavik: no, but it can kill a person! | 02:05 |
| wmarone | I keep forgetting that the Aava handsets are x86 but otherwise totally alien to standard x86 HW | 02:05 |
| slavik | that's what everyone keeps saying at owrk :( | 02:05 |
| slavik | work* | 02:05 |
| wmarone | woo, nice lag spike | 02:05 |
| thiago_home | the aavas are like what we're used to on ARM, except it's an Atom | 02:06 |
| thiago_home | actually, it's worse... with Nokia ARM devices, we do have flashing stations and tools. | 02:06 |
| thiago_home | /tmp/flasher --enable-rd-mode | 02:07 |
| thiago_home | cool blinking keyboard to keep you up at night | 02:07 |
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| thiago_home | mikeleib: btw, there is one way you can get a prototype... find an excuse to spend a couple of weeks in the Oslo office :-) | 02:08 |
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| slavik | too bad there is no Nokia office in NYC | 02:09 |
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| * ljp gets back to backporting mobility stuff.. again | 02:09 | |
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| slavik | in any case, going home. | 02:09 |
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| sofar | thiago_home: oslo beats helsinki :) | 02:11 |
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| thiago_home | in proto per capita, yeah | 02:11 |
| thiago_home | btw, results are out | 02:11 |
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| * mikeleib has not been to oslo but has been to helsinki | 02:14 | |
| * mikeleib finds it more likely that he will return to helsinki than head to oslo soon | 02:14 | |
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| GordonS | csdb: thank you very much - I didn't think of that one :) | 02:15 |
| slavik | thiago_home: what results? | 02:15 |
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| asj | ljp: you could have made my mistake instead and tried qt-4.7/mobility on freebsd... | 02:18 |
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| thiago_home | slavik: meego conference | 02:23 |
| * thiago_home goes to bed | 02:23 | |
| mikeleib | huh | 02:23 |
| GordonS | slavik: I said much the same about Denver, heh | 02:24 |
| * mikeleib wonders what results | 02:24 | |
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| * Kubuntiac also wonders "what results"... | 02:33 | |
| ali1234 | the results of the chosen papers for the conference | 02:35 |
| Kubuntiac | Ahhhh.... | 02:36 |
| Kubuntiac | They don't seem to say on the MeeGo conference site... that still says they're being decided :/ | 02:38 |
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| ali1234 | maybe results are not public yet | 02:39 |
| ali1234 | the email says "you can see status when you view *your* proposal" (emphasis mine) | 02:39 |
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| Kubuntiac | ali1234: Ah, ok. | 02:41 |
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| mikeleib | what email? | 02:50 |
| mikeleib | ali1234: has email? | 02:51 |
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| ali1234 | mikeleib: http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-community/2010-September/001864.html | 02:57 |
| mikeleib | I don't see "accepted" on my talk :( | 02:58 |
| mikeleib | this is an odd way of doing things | 02:58 |
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| CosmoHill | :D | 03:14 |
| mikeleib | CosmoHill: talking in Dublin? | 03:15 |
| CosmoHill | nope | 03:15 |
| mikeleib | CosmoHill: smiles for other reasons, then | 03:15 |
| CosmoHill | indeed | 03:15 |
| * mikeleib flees the scene | 03:16 | |
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| * CosmoHill giggles | 03:16 | |
| CosmoHill | night night | 03:16 |
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| wmarone | impressive | 05:00 |
| wmarone | US carriers flex their abusive muscle and cripple the Tab | 05:00 |
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| pupnik | ? | 05:03 |
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| pupnik | wmarone: say what now? | 05:04 |
| wmarone | US Tab won't have voice capabilities apparently | 05:04 |
| pupnik | wetab? | 05:04 |
| wmarone | nono | 05:04 |
| wmarone | Samsung | 05:04 |
| wmarone | Galaxy Tab I should say | 05:04 |
| wmarone | http://therobotcoop.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/lg_tab.jpg | 05:05 |
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| gabrbedd | Is this an OK place to ask newbie rpmbuild questions? :-) | 05:49 |
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| Mat_Matan | morning | 08:42 |
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| X-Fade | Morning | 08:59 |
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| sejo | reformatting the disk again | 09:03 |
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| sejo | hey all on the n900 image (weekly) what should work and be visible? | 09:21 |
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| bef0rd | sejo, #meego-arm | 09:26 |
| sejo | thx! | 09:29 |
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| Stskeeps | bloody wiki edit bug | 10:18 |
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| frals | is it just me or is it really hard to follow some of the meego-dev threads when half of the replies are inline in RTF/html without any hints on whats a reply and what the quote is? :P | 10:27 |
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| Jaffa | Morning, all | 10:47 |
| kyb3R | morning | 10:49 |
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| lolloo | hellooo0oo | 10:51 |
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| arfoll | Myrtti, the 'british' repo is probably mine. The one with XBMC? It's about as british as... well I'm french and i'm living in spain... | 11:28 |
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| arfoll | when is there going to be an 'extras'? | 11:29 |
| * RST38h moos at the world | 11:29 | |
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| lbt | mornings | 11:48 |
| lolloo | lbt, morning | 11:49 |
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| sorin7486 | hey anybody know if MeeGo can be installed on the Toshiba AC 100 ? | 12:06 |
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| GNUton-BNC | I guess notebook version of Meego runs on any Atom laptop... isn't it? | 12:10 |
| X-Fade | Well..... | 12:11 |
| sorin7486 | the AC 100 isn't atom .. it's ARM | 12:11 |
| sorin7486 | I'm curious if it's been rooted yet | 12:12 |
| sorin7486 | :) | 12:12 |
| X-Fade | That doesn't make a lot of sense. Why would you root it ;) | 12:12 |
| theplic | someone was taking about arm yesterday | 12:12 |
| sorin7486 | because I don't want android on it | 12:13 |
| sorin7486 | I'd rather just put MeeGo or ubuntu remix on it | 12:13 |
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| X-Fade | I'm not sure Netbook UX is working for ARM atm. | 12:14 |
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| Stskeeps | or build | 12:15 |
| X-Fade | hehe. | 12:16 |
| X-Fade | Handset UX would be interesting though. | 12:16 |
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| X-Fade | Btw, the specs for that device can't be right. 8 hours of use time? I'm guessing that android port doesn't use any power management then. | 12:17 |
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| X-Fade | An A9 should run a lot longer on such a huge battery. | 12:18 |
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| theplic | my atom is advertised as runnable for ~10hours :/ | 12:20 |
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| sorin7486 | X-Fade, it's probably because of the rather large screen | 12:21 |
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| sorin7486 | also at 800 grams the battery can't be very big | 12:21 |
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| X-Fade | Screen probably has a lot to do with it yes, but still it sounds really low. | 12:22 |
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| Termana | theplic, and it gets 4 amiright? | 12:25 |
| sorin7486 | well yes I'd like to see one last some 15 hours or more | 12:25 |
| Termana | :P | 12:25 |
| sorin7486 | even if it's a bit heavier, I would't mind :) | 12:25 |
| theplic | Termana: lol. surely not 4 but closer to 6-7 i think. thugh i havent really tried it | 12:25 |
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| Myrtti | *yawn* | 13:34 |
| Myrtti | good $timeofday | 13:34 |
| Myrtti | whoa, I wrote a bloody novel to the forum, | 13:34 |
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| Myrtti | meh, editing a post kills all the Thanks it has gotten ;___; | 13:45 |
| Stskeeps | not afaik - just looks like that | 13:46 |
| Stskeeps | until you reload | 13:46 |
| Stskeeps | (i think) | 13:46 |
| Myrtti | nope, I lost Bergie's thanks that way just now I think | 13:46 |
| Stskeeps | odd | 13:46 |
| Myrtti | or that's how it should work in the ideal world really | 13:47 |
| Myrtti | I could edit my post to have goatse on it after people have thanked me for the post | 13:47 |
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| Myrtti | better for the software to reset the thanks after an edit than to assume that people will go and check and unthank if they think it's right | 13:48 |
| bergie | Myrtti: http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/join_the_helsinki_meego_network/ | 13:48 |
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| Myrtti | bergie: :thumbsup: | 13:49 |
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| Myrtti | good grief, I really need to track down where my termemu gets the impression I want to use Firefox to open links | 13:50 |
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| CosmoHill | hey Myrtti | 13:58 |
| CosmoHill | ping ali1234 | 13:58 |
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| CosmoHill | ruddy thing | 14:00 |
| CosmoHill | hello people | 14:00 |
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| debayan | I get the following error in my uxlaunch logs -> http://pastebin.ca/1942793 | 14:58 |
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| Stskeeps | is dbus-x11 installed? | 14:59 |
| debayan | Stskeeps: yes, dbus-x11-1.2.24-7.2.i586 | 14:59 |
| Stskeeps | what device | 15:00 |
| debayan | netbook | 15:00 |
| Stskeeps | SSSE3? | 15:00 |
| debayan | yes. It boots meego fine. I am working on it right now.' | 15:00 |
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| debayan | i created it from a kick start file | 15:00 |
| debayan | come services are not running and am trying to debug them | 15:01 |
| debayan | some * | 15:01 |
| debayan | i noticed this early error in uxlaunch logs | 15:01 |
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| debayan | polkit consolekit devkit etc are not running | 15:01 |
| debayan | i installed x11-setuid as well | 15:02 |
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| Stskeeps | http://dilbert.com/fast/2010-09-14/ <- this could apply for community management too | 15:02 |
| debayan | Stskeeps: http://trac.tspre.org/merbot/freenode/%23meego-arm/log.07-15-2010.txt | 15:03 |
| debayan | Stskeeps: look for consolekit | 15:03 |
| Stskeeps | no xorg? | 15:03 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 15:03 |
| Stskeeps | does /usr/bin/Xorg exist? | 15:03 |
| debayan | yes it does Stskeeps | 15:03 |
| Stskeeps | hrm | 15:04 |
| Stskeeps | i don't know about netbook side, sorry | 15:04 |
| Stskeeps | i would think permission problems | 15:04 |
| debayan | well i do have another netbook running fine with the downloaded img file from the website | 15:04 |
| debayan | but this kickstart custom build does not work | 15:04 |
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| * CosmoHill has written 2000 words in about an hour :) | 15:07 | |
| CosmoHill | Stskeeps: I've not read dilbert since they changed their website | 15:07 |
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| ieatlint | debayan: is consolekit running? | 15:10 |
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| lolloo | Try using comic strip widget | 15:12 |
| lolloo | its awesome CosmoHill | 15:12 |
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| gaara | hello i'm a noob and i've jus installed the handset sdk, half the things dont work...firstly how do i make the keyboard appear? | 15:13 |
| gaara | coz anything i type doesnt seem to be recognised | 15:13 |
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| gaara | lo? | 15:15 |
| gaara | anyone here from within intel? | 15:15 |
| lolloo | hahaha | 15:15 |
| lolloo | is meego official release? | 15:16 |
| lolloo | or still for developers | 15:16 |
| gaara | officially for devs | 15:16 |
| gaara | :P | 15:16 |
| lolloo | hahaha | 15:16 |
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| debayan | ieatlint: no it isnt. How do I start it before uxlaunch? | 15:17 |
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| thiago | lolloo: it works fine on my netbook | 15:18 |
| ieatlint | uh, not sure... but that's your problem | 15:19 |
| debayan | hmm | 15:19 |
| ieatlint | don't know how meego lays stuff out | 15:20 |
| ieatlint | one sec, let me setup a chroot to an image and see if i can figure it out | 15:21 |
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| sjokkis | DawnFoster: i sent that email, at long last | 15:23 |
| sjokkis | DawnFoster: also, first in line! | 15:24 |
| lbt | sjokkis: that's when you find out about the *other* line | 15:25 |
| sjokkis | lbt: the line to get in line? | 15:25 |
| lbt | :) | 15:25 |
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| ieatlint | looks like chkconfig is the utility to add services | 15:26 |
| anky | hi everyone | 15:26 |
| anky | i wanted to discuss about adding multi user support in meego | 15:26 |
| anky | can somebody direct me how this could be done | 15:26 |
| anky | ( i m new to kernel level ) | 15:26 |
| thiago | it has nothing to do with the kernel | 15:27 |
| anky | then can u tell me what needs to be done | 15:28 |
| anky | ? | 15:28 |
| thiago | just do it | 15:28 |
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| lcuk | hey lbt (or any packaging wizards) are there any examples of dual mode packaging available? | 15:30 |
| lcuk | ie, something with a simplistic debai npackage and also a similar matching rpm spec | 15:30 |
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| lcuk | not using any complexities, just the basics to get like for like on the 2 systems | 15:30 |
| lbt | mmm | 15:31 |
| lbt | just write a debian/ and a .spec | 15:31 |
| lbt | they won't overlap | 15:31 |
| lcuk | well, I am thinking if there is already one there | 15:31 |
| lbt | or do you mean OBS? | 15:31 |
| lcuk | no, thinking packaging itself | 15:31 |
| lcuk | ie, does shopper have a /debian and an rpm spec yet? | 15:32 |
| lcuk | or any other apps | 15:32 |
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| lbt | pick any normal package... wget the debian src and the fedora/meego src | 15:32 |
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| lbt | no shopper doesn't | 15:32 |
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| lbt | it's like saying does any package have an INSTALL file and a README file.... | 15:33 |
| lcuk | ok, i will have a look around for something with simple dependencies | 15:33 |
| lcuk | and try to do something | 15:33 |
| lbt | it's kinda.... well yeah | 15:33 |
| lbt | the only interesting thing is in the OBS :) | 15:33 |
| lcuk | not really | 15:33 |
| lcuk | obs is one part of it | 15:33 |
| lbt | otherwise it's a no-op AFAIUI | 15:33 |
| lcuk | its possible to build an rpm without obs | 15:34 |
| lbt | of course | 15:34 |
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| lcuk | butare you saying that with obs you dont need the spec | 15:34 |
| lcuk | because obs understands how to make an rpm from the /debian? | 15:35 |
| lbt | debian packaging = tarball + debian/ dir rpm packaging = tarball+spec .... dual packaging = tarball+spec +debian/ dir | 15:35 |
| lcuk | yes | 15:35 |
| lbt | it's like saying does any package have an INSTALL file and a README file.... | 15:35 |
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| lbt | or "how do I add an INSTALL file if there's a README already there" | 15:36 |
| lcuk | no, i asked if you know of a specific package which does have those things | 15:36 |
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| lbt | OK ... yes | 15:36 |
| lcuk | to see comparatively how it was done | 15:36 |
| lbt | OK ... what app/package would be an ideal example for you | 15:37 |
| lbt | gpodder? | 15:37 |
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| lcuk | lbt, wasnt thinking even complex dependencies, something as simple as hello world app which will show a qt window when you built and as .deb on maemo, and do the same when built and installed as an rpm on meego | 15:39 |
| lcuk | but the same source and project etc | 15:40 |
| lcuk | "code once, deploy anywhere maemo and same on meego when built as rpm" | 15:40 |
| lcuk | balls VNC lag | 15:40 |
| lcuk | "code once, deploy anywhere" | 15:40 |
| lcuk | gpodder I understand will take longer, that involves many more dependencnes and has people looking now | 15:41 |
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| lcuk | I know theres been a preview, but its a more indepth thing | 15:41 |
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| lcuk | lbt - if can be used as a reference to help people with their more complex packaging | 15:42 |
| lbt | OK .. this has nothing to do with dual mode then | 15:42 |
| lcuk | yes | 15:42 |
| lbt | you just need to teach how to rpm package | 15:42 |
| lbt | and how to deb package | 15:42 |
| lcuk | "i have XYZ app on maemo and its packaged only for maemo" | 15:43 |
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| lbt | OK .. that would be "how do I convert from deb to spec".... understood | 15:43 |
| lcuk | "how could I also target meego without having to rewrite" | 15:43 |
| lbt | it's training material | 15:43 |
| lcuk | but in example form | 15:43 |
| lcuk | yes | 15:43 |
| lbt | you can't auto convert really | 15:43 |
| lcuk | sure | 15:43 |
| lbt | http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/A_Short_RPM_Tutorial | 15:44 |
| lbt | there are some on the meego wiki too | 15:44 |
| lbt | there's rpmschool | 15:44 |
| lcukn900 | cool lbt, so that fedora example will work or will it still need meegoisms? | 15:46 |
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| lbt | it's a good start ... the rpmschool in meego wiki should be better.... not looked at it recently | 15:47 |
| lcukn900 | blasted lag | 15:47 |
| lcuk | ok great - thats a decent start anyway, thanks david \o | 15:47 |
| lbt | http://wiki.meego.com/Packaging/Deb_conversion_example | 15:48 |
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| frightened-start | hello | 16:28 |
| frightened-start | can please somebody help me, i think i've messed everything up with meego and the nokia n900 | 16:28 |
| frightened-start | after flashing i only see a tux in the left-upper corner of the screen | 16:29 |
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| frightened-start | a soft-reset (akku) doesn't help | 16:29 |
| frightened-start | i cannot go into the usb mode anymore - is it damaged? | 16:29 |
| Stskeeps | frightened-start: did you use flasher -l -k -b or -f -l -b? | 16:29 |
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| frightened-start | i used -f -k .. -r | 16:30 |
| frightened-start | following this instruction: http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Install/NAND | 16:30 |
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| Stskeeps | right, you should have used /MMC | 16:31 |
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| frightened-start | MMC? | 16:31 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, install onto mmc | 16:31 |
| Stskeeps | frightened-start: pull battery and flash original maemo kernel | 16:32 |
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| frightened-start | Stskeeps: how? when i remove the battery, it won't start in usb mode by pressing "u" | 16:32 |
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| Stskeeps | frightened-start: what OS do you run? | 16:32 |
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| frightened-start | i formerly used maemo, but tried to flash meego...by now there is no os booting only the damn tux showed on the screen | 16:33 |
| Stskeeps | no, on your pc | 16:33 |
| frightened-start | oh | 16:33 |
| frightened-start | windows vista 32 bit | 16:33 |
| Stskeeps | do you know how to flash maemo back? | 16:34 |
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| frightened-start | no | 16:34 |
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| Stskeeps | right, pull battery while i find the instructions for you.. | 16:34 |
| frightened-start | because to flash memo back i have to use the usb - mode, right? but i cannot go into usb - mode | 16:34 |
| Stskeeps | no | 16:34 |
| Stskeeps | it's only in some circumstances you have to | 16:34 |
| Stskeeps | i personally never do that | 16:34 |
| frightened-start | n900 << batt removed | 16:35 |
| Stskeeps | just before we continue, i should remind you what the page you pointed to said | 16:35 |
| Stskeeps | WARNING: Flashing MeeGo to your N900 will permanently erase your settings and may cause damage to your device. This image is meant for experienced developers only. Improper use or installation of the image may harm your device. With the open image, the battery management is not functional, so you may cause damage to your device. We do not take any responsibility for the damage that may be caused to your device. | 16:35 |
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| Stskeeps | with that said, let's see if we can restore your OS.. | 16:35 |
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| frightened-start | ok | 16:36 |
| Stskeeps | basically, don't get mad if we can't get it working :) | 16:36 |
| frightened-start | thank you ;-) | 16:36 |
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| Stskeeps | what location are you at? US? | 16:37 |
| frightened-start | Germany | 16:37 |
| Stskeeps | http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php - put in your IMEI and grab RX-51_2009SE_3.2010.02-8_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin | 16:37 |
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| frightened-start | you mean the thrid and not the actual release? | 16:38 |
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| Stskeeps | frightened-start: hm, RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.19-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin | 16:40 |
| Stskeeps | sorry :) | 16:40 |
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| frightened-start | got it | 16:40 |
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| frightened-start | Stskeeps: download completed | 16:42 |
| Stskeeps | ok, now flasher-3.5 -F RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.19-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin -f -R | 16:43 |
| frightened-start | the n900 connected without battery to the pc? | 16:43 |
| Stskeeps | ok, so do it in this order | 16:43 |
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| Stskeeps | take out usb cable, battery out. plug in usb cable from pc to device. put in battery | 16:44 |
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| frightened-start | Stskeeps: WOW! its flashing | 16:47 |
| Stskeeps | good | 16:47 |
| frightened-start | Stskeeps: i used the wrong order | 16:47 |
| Stskeeps | now, can i scold you for not knowing how to handle that before trying out something experimental? ;) | 16:47 |
| Stskeeps | good that it's working | 16:48 |
| Stskeeps | i would recommend putting your device on wall charger for at least an hour. | 16:48 |
| frightened-start | Stskeeps: the thing i am really ashamed of is that i am a student of comp. sc. and i was not able to install that linux | 16:49 |
| Stskeeps | frightened-start: ah, don't worry, i have a masters and occasionally i'm stumped by issues too | 16:49 |
| Stskeeps | you learn things the hard way | 16:49 |
| frightened-start | :-) | 16:49 |
| frightened-start | can i do something for you? i mean the help | 16:50 |
| frightened-start | you gave me was great | 16:50 |
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| Stskeeps | next time, use wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Install/MMC (install to a microsd) | 16:50 |
| Stskeeps | non-destructive | 16:50 |
| Stskeeps | and no need, - report bugs on our releases (http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/meego-codedrop.php) and we're happy :) | 16:50 |
| Stskeeps | and perhaps get into meego | 16:50 |
| lcuk | (even better to try and fix/add a patch | 16:51 |
| frightened-start | Stskepps: i will go off and buy a microsd | 16:51 |
| Stskeeps | i had to do the same today myself, i fried two of my microsds with too much meego work :) | 16:51 |
| Stskeeps | though i think travelling a lot and going through x-ray scans might have helped | 16:51 |
| frightened-start | :-) | 16:51 |
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| frightened-start | so thanks really a lot to you Stskeeps | 16:53 |
| Stskeeps | np, good luck | 16:53 |
| frightened-start | i go and get a msd | 16:53 |
| frightened-start | bye and hope to see you again | 16:53 |
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| dneary | slaine, Ping? | 17:04 |
| slaine | dneary: ACK | 17:04 |
| dneary | slaine, Cén chaoi ina bhfuil tu? | 17:05 |
| Stskeeps | is that rot13? | 17:05 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 17:05 |
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| dneary | Stskeeps, Secret code. Like finnish | 17:05 |
| dneary | Except fewer people understand it :) | 17:05 |
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| dneary | Stskeeps, By the way, I've been meaning to ask - have you guys seen any engagement from people involved in Linaro with the MeeGo on ARM project? | 17:06 |
| Stskeeps | well, there's at least one sitting in #meego-arm :) | 17:06 |
| dneary | Stskeeps, kiko? | 17:06 |
| Stskeeps | no, asca | 17:06 |
| Stskeeps | asac | 17:06 |
| dneary | Adding to auto-joins lurker list :) | 17:07 |
| Stskeeps | linaro's a really odd size but when you understand they're basically a pool of resources devoted to further and sanitize ARM in Linux, it makes more sense.. | 17:07 |
| Stskeeps | so you might not see them directly, but in upstream work you would | 17:07 |
| dneary | Yeah | 17:07 |
| slaine | Tá mé go maith. Agus tu fein ? | 17:07 |
| dneary | Had a good chat with a contact in ST Ericsson about it | 17:07 |
| dneary | slaine, Go measra | 17:08 |
| Stskeeps | dneary: and we do see some STE people in #meego-arm too.. | 17:08 |
| dneary | slaine, An bhfuil GPS agat? | 17:08 |
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| slaine | Níl, ta mo iPhone marbh. Ta se san ospidéal | 17:09 |
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| Stskeeps | dneary: basically i see meego ARM growing, especially considering attendees and talks in meego conference | 17:10 |
| dneary | slaine, Níl N900 agat? | 17:10 |
| dneary | Stskeeps, Cool | 17:11 |
| dneary | slaine, Might be easier just to go to /msg :) I'm at the limits of my gaeilge | 17:11 |
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| slaine | sure | 17:12 |
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| slaine | same here, was fun though :) | 17:12 |
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| thiago | ARM is important for MeeGo | 17:13 |
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| thiago | even if Intel's Medfield blows ARM away, ARM will continue to be relevant for a while | 17:13 |
| thiago | anyway, for Linaro, I've seen some people here and there | 17:13 |
| thiago | not active engagement in our distro discussions, but as long as they help the kernel and toolchains, I'd be satisfied | 17:14 |
| GAN900 | I can't see x86 being competitive in the Cortex segments for a while yet. | 17:14 |
| thiago | GAN900: any reason besides power consumption? | 17:14 |
| GAN900 | thiago, mostly it comes down to that. | 17:14 |
| GAN900 | Unless we get some sort of ridiculous battery advancement coming to market in the next couple of year. | 17:15 |
| thiago | I haven't seen Medfield and I don't know what is being targetted, but I'm sure Intel is working to become competitive | 17:15 |
| GAN900 | And so far nothing's been particularly impressive. | 17:15 |
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| thiago | my guess is that it will take two years for Atom to be on the same ballpark as ARM | 17:16 |
| thiago | especially the OMAP | 17:16 |
| GAN900 | The x86 architecture advantage is steadily becoming irrelevant with open source on the rise. | 17:17 |
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| thiago | I'm sure AMD and Intel disagree :) | 17:20 |
| berndhs | power you can solve on both the supply side and the consumption side | 17:22 |
| berndhs | heat is another matter | 17:22 |
| thiago | well, if you increase the supply without decreasing the consumption, then ARM will still be better | 17:22 |
| thiago | it will mean the device will stay longer in stand-by mode | 17:23 |
| berndhs | right, i'm saying that better supply could get you to a stage where its good enough | 17:23 |
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| GAN900 | thiago, most certainly. | 17:24 |
| GAN900 | thiago, but as speaking the consumer, the final decision really isn't theirs to make. *g* | 17:25 |
| pupnik_ | how about a high-tech ARM cpu with a little x86 core on the side? | 17:26 |
| GAN900 | Unfortunately ARM doesn't meet many people's definition of "good enough" these days, so x86 is going to be hard pressed to. | 17:26 |
| GAN900 | pupnik_, to what end? | 17:26 |
| thiago | pupnik_: huh? | 17:26 |
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| pupnik_ | run a low-power OS and be able to launch x86 software in a vm/emu | 17:26 |
| thiago | GAN900: what do those people find lacking? | 17:26 |
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| thiago | pupnik_: right... so emulating x86 on a low-power CPU... that sounds like a recipe for disaster | 17:27 |
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| berndhs | embedded doesn't always mean pocket size mobile | 17:27 |
| pupnik_ | better speed and less power than emulating in software | 17:27 |
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| lokesh | How to resolve this problem while building rpm locally : | 17:29 |
| lokesh | running aaa-meego-accelerator postinstall script | 17:29 |
| lokesh | chroot: cannot run command `sh': No such file or directory | 17:29 |
| lokesh | running bash-x86-arm postinstall script | 17:29 |
| lokesh | chroot: cannot run command `sh': No such file or directory | 17:29 |
| lokesh | initializing rpm db... | 17:29 |
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| lokesh | chroot: cannot run command `rpm': No such file or directory | 17:29 |
| Stskeeps | lokesh: what OS? | 17:30 |
| lokesh | I just cleared the buildroot and tried osc build | 17:30 |
| lokesh | Meego | 17:30 |
| Stskeeps | lokesh: yes, but what is osc running on? | 17:30 |
| lokesh | using linux | 17:30 |
| lokesh | ubuntu | 17:30 |
| lokesh | didnt have any problems when i was building i586 | 17:31 |
| Stskeeps | right, you need to get qemu-arm | 17:31 |
| lokesh | ok | 17:31 |
| Stskeeps | i don't have a ubuntu url handy sadly, just a fedora one | 17:31 |
| * Stskeeps looks | 17:31 | |
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| lokesh | yeh thanks | 17:52 |
| lokesh | that helped | 17:52 |
| lokesh | however now i get another error | 17:52 |
| lokesh | make[1]: *** write jobserver: Bad file descriptor. Stop. | 17:52 |
| lokesh | make[1]: *** Waiting for unfinished jobs.... | 17:52 |
| lokesh | make[1]: *** write jobserver: Bad file descriptor. Stop. | 17:52 |
| lokesh | make: *** [/home/abuild/rpmbuild/BUILD/sputnik5_33915/mw/build/qmake/../../external/lua/src/liblua.a] Error 2 | 17:52 |
| lokesh | make: *** Waiting for unfinished jobs.... | 17:52 |
| Stskeeps | well, we're getting closer | 17:53 |
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| Stskeeps | could you paste the whole build log? | 17:53 |
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| Stskeeps | pastie.org, not here :) | 17:53 |
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| GAN900 | thiago, well, getting through a day of moderate-heavy use on a mobile computer would go a long way. | 18:02 |
| lokesh | Stskeeps : http://pastie.org/1165028 | 18:03 |
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| Stskeeps | lokesh: looking | 18:05 |
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| Stskeeps | lokesh: cat /proc/sys/vm/vdso_enabled | 18:08 |
| lokesh | 0 | 18:08 |
| Stskeeps | hmm | 18:09 |
| Stskeeps | lokesh: what qemu-arm did you fetch? | 18:10 |
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| lokesh | i qemu-common 0.12.3+noroms-0ubuntu9.2 qemu common functionality (bios, documentati | 18:10 |
| lokesh | ii qemu-kvm 0.12.3+noroms-0ubuntu9.2 Full virtualization on i386 and amd64 hardwa | 18:10 |
| lokesh | ii qemu-kvm-extras-static 0.12.3+noroms-0ubuntu9.2 static QEMU user mode emulation binaries | 18:10 |
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| Stskeeps | ok | 18:11 |
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| lokesh | stskeeps : did u figure out the problem ? | 18:24 |
| lokesh | just mail me if u do | 18:24 |
| Stskeeps | no, not offhand | 18:24 |
| lokesh | my mail id : lokesh.k.goel@nokia.com | 18:24 |
| Stskeeps | i have some ideas but we can take it on monday | 18:25 |
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| lokesh | sure | 18:25 |
| lokesh | see you on Monday then. | 18:25 |
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| Stskeeps | yep | 18:25 |
| lokesh | have a nice weekend :) | 18:25 |
| Stskeeps | you too - and thanks for hacking on fennec for us | 18:25 |
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| lokesh | no problem. Thanks for your help. cyu. | 18:26 |
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| Stskeeps | i've spent too much time with meego. | 18:27 |
| Stskeeps | i just tried to rpm -i a deb package | 18:27 |
| CosmoHill | don't you need to use alien to install a deb package for rpm? | 18:28 |
| Stskeeps | probably | 18:28 |
| arfoll | cosmohill, does that ever work properly? | 18:29 |
| CosmoHill | think so | 18:29 |
| CosmoHill | I used it ages and ages ago | 18:29 |
| arfoll | how does it translate the dependancies though? | 18:30 |
| th0br0 | don't think it does really | 18:30 |
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| FunkyPenguin | is there a guide to how to add services to libsocialweb? | 18:31 |
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| arfoll | must make a right mess | 18:34 |
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| romen | bye! | 18:44 |
| romen | (ops, wrong chan!) | 18:45 |
| Stskeeps | bye though ;) | 18:45 |
| romen | xD | 18:45 |
| slavik | no seriously, bye | 18:45 |
| slavik | leave! | 18:45 |
| slavik | :P | 18:45 |
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| lbt | Stskeeps: -dev is quiet today.... | 19:07 |
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| Jaffa | lbt: Everyone's driving round to you with pitchforks | 19:07 |
| lbt | heh | 19:08 |
| lbt | I notice there was no answer as to whether they *wanted* a solution... | 19:08 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: i'm pondering to suggest something along lines of: an package may only have 3rd party dependancies that are available from the installation source | 19:08 |
| lbt | Stskeeps: mmm | 19:09 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: if the installation source is a .rpm only, this means "only meego core" | 19:09 |
| lbt | I don't see what's wrong with my proposed wording | 19:09 |
| lbt | if a depends is missing.... no install | 19:09 |
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| Stskeeps | i can't access my gmail atm now anyway | 19:10 |
| lbt | I heard there may have been ml problems? | 19:10 |
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| GAN900 | Time to work through the rest of the spec thread. | 19:10 |
| lbt | the one argument that made sense was ... if the vendor installs SDL as part of their differentiation | 19:11 |
| DawnFoster | lbt: we had some issue with unsubscribes for bouncing | 19:11 |
| lbt | DawnFoster: OK ... nothing serious then :) | 19:11 |
| DawnFoster | we're working on getting people resubscribed | 19:12 |
| GAN900 | I don't see the point of crippling open source stuff trying to mandate something to operators while simultaneously pandering to their despicable business practices. | 19:12 |
| Stskeeps | DawnFoster: ah, that's a handy way to stop a thread out of control ;) | 19:12 |
| lbt | Jaffa: that one is valid.... and I really don't have a problem with working to understand real problems | 19:12 |
| DawnFoster | ha! | 19:12 |
| lbt | DawnFoster: yeah... it was convenient ;) | 19:12 |
| lbt | Stskeeps: I'd still like Arjan and Mike to say "we *want* to solve this .... help us" | 19:13 |
| Stskeeps | anas raises a good question though | 19:13 |
| lbt | rather than the (rather arrogant?) "we haven't got an answer and you can't possibly understand how complex it is" | 19:13 |
| Stskeeps | 'That is what I am saying, if I have library libXYZ from meego installed and working and someone adds the same library with a new version and other options in some other enabled repo, the dependency resolver will not take libXYZ from that other repo. | 19:13 |
| Stskeeps | ' | 19:14 |
| Stskeeps | how can we solve this one effectively? | 19:14 |
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| lbt | I think that's the same as I just mentioned with SDL ? | 19:14 |
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| lbt | no... actually. | 19:14 |
| lbt | hmmm train time RSN | 19:15 |
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| Stskeeps | that then adds the complexity of ecosystem friendly behaviour | 19:16 |
| Stskeeps | which gets even more difficult | 19:16 |
| lbt | yes... but that example | 19:16 |
| lbt | isn't that just non-compliant | 19:16 |
| lbt | "library libXYZ from meego installed" someone adds the same library .... non-comliant | 19:17 |
| Stskeeps | how do we handle libSDL versions where ogg is disabled for various reasons, or mp3 is? | 19:17 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 19:17 |
| lbt | so if libSDL is available from Surrounds and NokiaPlus | 19:17 |
| lbt | ? | 19:17 |
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| Stskeeps | in the past, this would mean that ogg support wouldn't be in SDL :) | 19:17 |
| lbt | gotta go... train.... l8r | 19:18 |
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| lbt | :) | 19:18 |
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| Stskeeps | cya | 19:18 |
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| GAN900 | Arrogance characterizes things pretty well. | 19:52 |
| GAN900 | It's the Finns all over again. | 19:52 |
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| adeus | intel is from finland? :) | 19:53 |
| GAN900 | adeus, no, but Nokia is. | 19:53 |
| GAN900 | and we have lots of experience with their arrogance. | 19:54 |
| Alison_Chaiken | GAN900, let's not focus on slagging on people, let's focus on making MeeGo the best mobile user experience. I've been trying to run MeeGo x86_64 iso under qemu-kvm. The tabs come up but no icons or menus. I'm a qemu newb, so maybe I'm screwing up. Is anyone running MeeGo under qemu-kvm? | 19:54 |
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| abhijeet | hi guys.... | 20:38 |
| abhijeet | If i will write an application using Qt and run it on meego then will it acquire the theme of meego or do i need to call meego specific api to get that look and feel | 20:38 |
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| mrshaver | lbt: Hi David, want to jump over to #meego-cas for a second? | 20:41 |
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| lbt | sure | 20:41 |
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| * CosmoHill hugs lcuk and dm8tbr | 20:45 | |
| CosmoHill | motherboard is done :D | 20:45 |
| CosmoHill | now to see if it's fubared :o | 20:45 |
| dm8tbr | but 'doez it workz?' | 20:45 |
| CosmoHill | it's taken my 3 weeks to get to this point | 20:46 |
| CosmoHill | I'm just pleased nothing caught on fire and i've not burnt myself | 20:46 |
| CosmoHill | pleased and surprised | 20:46 |
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| Jaffa | re | 20:48 |
| Jaffa | re/last jaffa | 20:48 |
| Jaffa | xx | 20:48 |
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| CosmoHill | dm8tbr: now, can I remember how to put the laptop back together | 20:51 |
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| dm8tbr | heh, the obligatory 3 screws will be left over | 20:53 |
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| CosmoHill | just noticed a nice thing, the four screws that hold the mobo in place have arrows pointing to them | 20:54 |
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| dm8tbr | meh, screw the screws, my chili peppers are ripe! and e.g. the white hot has a very nice aroma and well is also white hot | 20:58 |
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| CosmoHill | aww no friggin' way. I need to remove the mobo again so I can put the BIOS battery back in cos you can't access it from the botto | 21:02 |
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| toggles | ls | 21:10 |
| toggles | wtf.. who changed dpkg-buildpackage | 21:10 |
| toggles | oops.. sorry, wrong channel. | 21:10 |
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| CosmoHill | :D:D:D:D:D:D | 21:15 |
| CosmoHill | it\s POSTs!±!!!! | 21:15 |
| CosmoHill | this motherboard is freaking invinsiable :D | 21:16 |
| berndhs | CosmoHill: and if it's not smoking too much, you're in business :) | 21:19 |
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| GAN900 | There must be something wrong if I've gotten to the end of the spec thread. | 21:23 |
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| * CosmoHill tires to figure out how much to charge for this | 21:26 | |
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| lbt | GAN900: just for you | 22:36 |
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| CosmoHill | dammit | 22:37 |
| * CosmoHill disasembels laptop again cos he found the DVD bracket | 22:37 | |
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| CosmoHill | note to self: make more notes | 22:45 |
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| lcuk | CosmoHill, take photos of each step and playback in reverse when putting it back together | 23:11 |
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| CosmoHill | hey lcuk | 23:11 |
| CosmoHill | I took it apart to put the DVD drive abck i | 23:12 |
| CosmoHill | in | 23:12 |
| GAN900 | lbt, new email? | 23:12 |
| CosmoHill | only to find that it would have gone in anyway | 23:12 |
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| lbt | *nod* | 23:12 |
| GAN900 | It's fun when you come away with extra parts. | 23:12 |
| CosmoHill | I have a scale layout of the screws on my desk :) | 23:12 |
| lbt | Mark is being much more focussed now | 23:12 |
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| lbt | I should check the archive though | 23:13 |
| GAN900 | lbt, haven't had any new in -dev since the bugs maintenance break one (1912 UTC) | 23:13 |
| lbt | dawn was saying they'd had some problems | 23:13 |
| lbt | unsubscribe bounces or something | 23:14 |
| GAN900 | Great | 23:14 |
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| * CosmoHill growls at the missing screws | 23:33 | |
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| lcuk | lol CosmoHill at least the board is together | 23:35 |
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| CosmoHill | indeed :D | 23:36 |
| CosmoHill | plus I found one screw, sometimes after I unscrew and remove something I put the screw back in the hole | 23:37 |
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| CosmoHill | I take it as a kinda comperlent that someone trusts me this much with their laptop | 23:43 |
| Stskeeps | it's probably encrypted | 23:43 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 23:43 |
| Stskeeps | i think there's material enough in all the meego conference proposals for another meego conference in 6 months again or something.. | 23:44 |
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| madc | quit | 23:47 |
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| CosmoHill | interesting, a user on this laptop is running some odd processes, the interesting bit is they're not a user on the laptop | 23:47 |
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| lcuk | yeah Stskeeps, whats the threads you have enjoyed so far? | 23:50 |
| GAN900 | lbt, poking through the web archives now. . . . | 23:50 |
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| GAN900 | Or maybe not. . . . | 23:52 |
| CosmoHill | lcuk: thank you very much for your help | 23:53 |
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| Stskeeps | lcuk: well, i think the ones we've accepted so far are really good, but there's still a lot of good proposals lingering about | 23:54 |
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| slowness | ls | 23:58 |
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