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| lbt | I am beginning to sob out loud at the meego.spec thread | 00:10 |
|---|---|---|
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| lbt | Jaffa: please offer me a shoulder to cry on ... | 00:10 |
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| CosmoHill | I'd hug you but it's only software | 00:11 |
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| lcuk | lbt the first 3 posts make .wgt sound like .activex ;) | 00:13 |
| lbt | lcuk: I'm sure some of these guys are windows devs | 00:14 |
| * lcuk giggles | 00:14 | |
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| lbt | the whole "ship a single package with python in it for a desktop widget" is f**king insane | 00:15 |
| lbt | (it's OK to nearly swear, Dawn's gone) | 00:15 |
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| lbt | bloat a 3kb package to 6Mb+ ... "so the manufacturer knows what they're getting" | 00:16 |
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| lcuk | lbt theres bigger problems | 00:19 |
| lcuk | especially with wgt | 00:19 |
| Jartza | http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/14/nokia-hires-peter-skillman-former-palm-design-vp-as-meego-user/ | 00:19 |
| lcuk | since user cannot actively install things into root space | 00:19 |
| lcuk | and at some point in the future multiple users will come back | 00:19 |
| lcuk | (the mer discussion about /home/user being bad is recalled here) | 00:20 |
| lbt | heh | 00:20 |
| lcuk | the package manager would have to manage multiple versions of wgt packages | 00:20 |
| lcuk | for each user | 00:20 |
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| lcuk | but I havent finished the thread yet | 00:20 |
| lcuk | and movie is almost here | 00:21 |
| lbt | wgt? | 00:21 |
| lbt | wrt? | 00:21 |
| lcuk | wgt == widget packages | 00:21 |
| lbt | not looked at that tech yet | 00:21 |
| lbt | app manager must be privileged | 00:22 |
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| slaine | I asked this earlier but got dragged into a meeting and never got to see if there was a reply | 00:30 |
| slaine | Has there been any progress made on a generic x86 build on the community server ? | 00:31 |
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| Mat_Matan | good night | 00:41 |
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| CosmoHill | slaine: i think ali124 is the best person to ask about his | 00:44 |
| slaine | yeah, probably | 00:45 |
| slaine | wondered if lbt, Stskeeps or vgrade might know | 00:45 |
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| Myrtti | apparently there's a Twitter announcement coming up Real Soon about something important | 00:47 |
| lbt | @world : Twitter Rulez ? | 00:49 |
| CosmoHill | so many twits make a ... | 00:49 |
| kyb3R | nuthouse | 00:49 |
| odin_ | twoddle | 00:49 |
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| lbt | have you ever considered that twitter may be a great source of entropy? | 00:49 |
| berndhs | maybe its about twitter downtime, that would be shocking | 00:49 |
| CosmoHill | duno, can't read that word | 00:50 |
| berndhs | lbt: yes, and experiment in how low you can drive S/N ratio | 00:50 |
| vgrade | slaine, not sure about lbt, but Stskeeps has something built on the maemo obs, core I think. vjl has been chatting today about running something on nonSSSE | 00:51 |
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| vgrade | vlj, sorry | 00:51 |
| slaine | vgrade, thanks | 00:52 |
| slaine | every time I think I'm free to experiment on it, I get dragged into something else for a week | 00:52 |
| slaine | real pita at this point | 00:52 |
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| vgrade | vlj, was showing off a screenie of x up on a really old machine | 00:54 |
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| slaine | Anyone know if the IDF sessions are available to view ? | 01:30 |
| slaine | I believe the Amino guys gave a talk on the MeeGo Connected TV project | 01:30 |
| slaine | vgrade: Do you know anything about the graphics stack on the Intel Atom CE4100 ? | 01:32 |
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| vgrade | slaine, it that the new intel platform announced today something bay, beach | 01:48 |
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| slaine | nah, that's the new version | 01:48 |
| slaine | CE4100 was announced last sept and is only now really appearing in products | 01:48 |
| slaine | Boxee dropped the Tegra2 for example and moved to the CE4100, the new GoogleTV reference platform is based on it | 01:50 |
| slaine | seems to support h.264 decoding at 1080p | 01:50 |
| zeenix | hi | 01:50 |
| slaine | so it can't be a regular i9XX chipset for the graphics | 01:50 |
| zeenix | how do i get an account on build.meego.com ? | 01:50 |
| slaine | it's probably more powervr stuff licensed from Imagine | 01:50 |
| slaine | zeenix: contact X-Fade or lbt | 01:51 |
| slaine | oh waith, build.meego.com is the official one | 01:51 |
| ScottishDuck | I would have thought it would use something similar to the sandybridge gpu | 01:51 |
| slaine | no public accounts on that as of yet | 01:51 |
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| zeenix | X-Fade: | 01:53 |
| zeenix | slaine: i'm not public :) | 01:53 |
| zeenix | slaine: i work at N and maintainer/developer of gupnp and rygel :) | 01:53 |
| slaine | shouldn't that be public ;) | 01:54 |
| slaine | zeenix, tekojo might be more appropriate for an official account, iirc. | 01:55 |
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| zeenix | slaine: whats tekojo? | 01:55 |
| slaine | who, not what | 01:55 |
| slaine | doesn't look like he's around atm | 01:55 |
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| zeenix | k, no hurries | 01:55 |
| zeenix | slaine: thanks, i'll poke him tomorrow | 01:56 |
| slaine | np | 01:56 |
| CosmoHill | slaine: there's a nokia converence thing on today and tomorrow | 01:56 |
| CosmoHill | he might be there | 01:56 |
| * slaine wonders why he's still up | 01:56 | |
| slaine | CosmoHill: very true | 01:56 |
| CosmoHill | I have until monday to sort out my sleeping patten | 01:56 |
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| CosmoHill | fyi for anyone who cares (which no one will), from next week I probably won't be on here on mondays | 01:58 |
| CosmoHill | well maybe at night | 01:58 |
| zeenix | CosmoHill: whats the time there? | 01:58 |
| lbt | zeenix: mmm | 01:58 |
| CosmoHill | UTC+1 | 01:58 |
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| lbt | zeenix: do you know kad? | 01:59 |
| zeenix | lbt: not by nick at aleast | 01:59 |
| lbt | Sascha/Alexander | 01:59 |
| zeenix | yes, the big russian guy? | 01:59 |
| lbt | yup... | 01:59 |
| lbt | he's your quickest way | 02:00 |
| zeenix | yes, i just saw him in the pub an hour ago :) | 02:00 |
| lbt | hope you bought him a drink | 02:00 |
| vgrade | slaine, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerVR/List_of_Products sgx535, same as an intel GMA500 | 02:00 |
| zeenix | lbt: if only i knew that i need him :) | 02:00 |
| lbt | zeenix: so I do the nokia internal OBS ... "hi" | 02:00 |
| lbt | good excuse for another drink tomorrow :) | 02:01 |
| zeenix | perhaps :) | 02:01 |
| zeenix | it'll be funny cause I bumped into him in the pub i went to the previous night as well :) | 02:02 |
| zeenix | he seems to be in all pubs in hel | 02:02 |
| slaine | vgrade, well spotted | 02:02 |
| lbt | hehe... | 02:02 |
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| slaine | zeenix: or he's stalking you | 02:02 |
| vgrade | slaine, driver hell | 02:03 |
| * slaine sobs | 02:03 | |
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| CosmoHill | you're the second person to sob today | 02:04 |
| slaine | grade, that new Amino OTT box is based on that CPU, so the drivers must work | 02:04 |
| slaine | s/grade/vgrade/ | 02:04 |
| infobot | slaine meant: vgrade, that new Amino OTT box is based on that CPU, so the drivers must work | 02:04 |
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| vgrade | yes, we have/had working drivers on Joggler GMA500 , IEGD then EMGD | 02:05 |
| slaine | nod | 02:05 |
| slaine | do you still need the older xserver for them to work on meego ? | 02:05 |
| vgrade | problem is when the dri or kernel or Xorg changes we need new binary blobs released | 02:05 |
| vgrade | intel only release a driver a year | 02:06 |
| slaine | and they lag, nod | 02:06 |
| vgrade | I would think that intel would be in a position to dictate OSS drivers if they have the potential of putting PVR silicon underneath a shed load of TV'v | 02:07 |
| vgrade | TV's | 02:07 |
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| slaine | right, time to wrap up | 02:14 |
| slaine | catch you all tomorrow | 02:14 |
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| CosmoHill | hey thiago_london | 02:19 |
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| CosmoHill | what power soldering iron is recommende for PCD? | 02:55 |
| CosmoHill | PCB* | 02:55 |
| lcuk | CosmoHill, depends on purpose | 02:56 |
| lcuk | higher power irons retain heat more, but a general purpose single temp is useful for occasional crafting | 02:57 |
| lcuk | more important than power is the tip you use | 02:57 |
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| lcuk | ie never try using a needle point to desolder a clump | 02:58 |
| lcuk | and dont use a flat tip for fine work ;) | 02:58 |
| CosmoHill | I have a laptop motherboard I'm having trouble with | 03:00 |
| lcuk | theres a new range of soldering hammers | 03:01 |
| CosmoHill | that used for ICs? | 03:02 |
| lcuk | CosmoHill, when you have a soldering hammer, everything is an IC nail ;) | 03:03 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | hah | 03:03 |
| * TSCHAKeee2 has a temp controlled soldering/desoldering station | 03:03 | |
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| CosmoHill | I have a 30W one I got when I was a kid for that robot wars robot thingy | 03:04 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | and one gas iron..which.. i've only used once.. i thought i'd be like MacGyver and have to build something to break me out of a jail at some point, i guess... | 03:04 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | :P | 03:04 |
| CosmoHill | I think I might need a new tip | 03:05 |
| lcuk | get a decent sucker | 03:06 |
| lcuk | or a roll of braid | 03:06 |
| * lcuk soldered 2 coins together the other night with my lighter | 03:06 | |
| lcuk | (i, just like now, was bored) | 03:07 |
| CosmoHill | I have a solder sucker somewhere too | 03:07 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | that's a bad place to be | 03:07 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | trust me | 03:07 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | you start contemplating weird shit to do | 03:07 |
| CosmoHill | the problem I'm having with the PCB is that the solder on it isn't melting | 03:07 |
| lcuk | TSCHAKeee2, meh | 03:07 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | one trick that a friend does, he has a solder-desoldering rig with a bladder that sucks up the solder, but he applies just a dab of new solder | 03:08 |
| lcuk | CosmoHill, photo | 03:08 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | this has the effect of melting the solder that's already there | 03:08 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | and you can then suck it up | 03:08 |
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| npm | can those who attended online join the raffle? | 03:09 |
| CosmoHill | we tried that | 03:09 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | huh? that always works | 03:09 |
| CosmoHill | what worries me is that the new solder melts fine and the old one doesn't flintch | 03:09 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | what type of PCB? | 03:09 |
| CosmoHill | lcuk: hmm, do I get out of bed to take a picture of a motherboard | 03:09 |
| lcuk | why are you soldering your motherboard whilst in bed? | 03:10 |
| CosmoHill | I'm not | 03:11 |
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| CosmoHill | "and how did he die officer?" | 03:11 |
| CosmoHill | I've had the motherboard for a few weeks all cos I can't get the damn pins unsoldered | 03:11 |
| lcuk | "boss, we found a lukewarm soldering iron under his sheets" | 03:11 |
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| CosmoHill | it needs a new power connector | 03:12 |
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| lcuk | CosmoHill, so you are removing the power connector? | 03:14 |
| lcuk | which will have a big glob of solder on its through the hole connectors? | 03:14 |
| * lcuk says through the hole again for no reason | 03:14 | |
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| * lbt sends another meego.spec response off | 03:19 | |
| * lcuk emails lbt some ice cream | 03:19 | |
| lbt | at least we're getting to some meaty bits now | 03:19 |
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| lbt | eww | 03:19 |
| lbt | meaty icecream | 03:20 |
| CosmoHill | one second | 03:20 |
| CosmoHill | ewww | 03:20 |
| lcuk | actually lbt | 03:20 |
| lcuk | bacon ice cream | 03:20 |
| lbt | EWWWWWW | 03:20 |
| CosmoHill | why does this sound favmilar | 03:20 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | it works | 03:20 |
| lbt | pistacio | 03:20 |
| lbt | h | 03:20 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | bacon ice cream does work | 03:20 |
| CosmoHill | wait. we're already had this convo! | 03:20 |
| lbt | we have | 03:20 |
| lbt | it worked!!!! | 03:20 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | DEJA BACON@! | 03:20 |
| lbt | the flux capacitor works!!! | 03:20 |
| lcuk | http://www.davidlebovitz.com/2008/03/candied-bacon-i-1/ <<< | 03:21 |
| lcuk | :D | 03:21 |
| lbt | lcuk: advocate to DawnFoster for the Zeitgeist chap when she comes back | 03:22 |
| lbt | but read my email on -dev too | 03:22 |
| lcuk | indeed lbt | 03:22 |
| lcuk | oh screw that | 03:22 |
| lcuk | -dev is email overload | 03:22 |
| lbt | see if we can nail them | 03:22 |
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| lcuk | and gmail keeps threads | 03:22 |
| lbt | yeah.. but this is important | 03:22 |
| CosmoHill | solder pic: http://cross-lfs.org/~cosmo/DSC_0039.JPG | 03:22 |
| lcuk | did it have a new topic | 03:22 |
| lcuk | because that thread was immense | 03:22 |
| lcuk | i got about 2/3 of the way down | 03:23 |
| lbt | "Meego spec - for comment" | 03:23 |
| lbt | eeeeeek | 03:23 |
| lcuk | before my brain melted and movie arrived | 03:23 |
| CosmoHill | did you see Lady Gaga's recent dress? | 03:23 |
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| lcuk | the steak one? | 03:23 |
| lbt | start at my email and work back... we're getting interesting | 03:23 |
| lbt | CosmoHill: TTIWWP | 03:23 |
| CosmoHill | huh? | 03:24 |
| * lbt waits for google latency | 03:24 | |
| lcuk | http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jIeoy-85-4AgSJ_blBcXte83bC6Q | 03:24 |
| CosmoHill | TTIWWP? | 03:24 |
| lcuk | lbt, the thread reopened at 1034 mails | 03:24 |
| lcuk | 10:34 | 03:24 |
| lcuk | ie i have a couple of hours lag | 03:25 |
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| lbt | bed... I'm already in trouble... o/ | 03:25 |
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| CosmoHill | bey bye | 03:25 |
| CosmoHill | lcuk: did you see the pic? | 03:26 |
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| lcuk | lbt - one point, simplest: allow apps to use dependencies within their own repo | 03:27 |
| lcuk | so if intelappup things need special things, they come from within intelappup | 03:27 |
| lcuk | likewise ovi or maemo joebloggs | 03:28 |
| CosmoHill | eletric desoldering iron or regular vacuum pump? | 03:35 |
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| lcuk | CosmoHill, regular sucker and a medium nib on a standard iron should get that | 03:40 |
| lcuk | and the tip TSCHAKeee2 gave earlier works | 03:40 |
| CosmoHill | the adding new solder to the old? | 03:40 |
| lcuk | melt a small amount onto your iron helps to contact and further melt the other | 03:40 |
| lcuk | yeah | 03:41 |
| CosmoHill | I may have already fubarred the motherboard | 03:41 |
| lcuk | :D | 03:41 |
| CosmoHill | but without adding the new power connector I'd never know | 03:41 |
| CosmoHill | I'd rather know that Ive effed up someone else's motherboard than me left wondering | 03:41 |
| lcuk | yeah | 03:42 |
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| lcuk | the reason its not melting is because the heat is going into the legs | 03:42 |
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| lcuk | anyway, gnite \o | 03:42 |
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| CosmoHill | bye | 03:44 |
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| CosmoHill | cyas | 03:50 |
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| matt_chen | Hello all, does MeeGo support 3G connection ? | 07:34 |
| matt_chen | From carrick UI, if plug a 3G module, does MeeGo support 3G ? | 07:35 |
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| matt_chen | Anybody has an idea ? | 07:35 |
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| fabiomssilva | matt_chen: It will, It will ! | 09:59 |
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| matt_chen | fbiomssilva: so it is not working now ? | 10:04 |
| fabiomssilva | Not 100% sure. Wifi is working. but 3g not. | 10:06 |
| matt_chen | yep, I know wifi is working good unless driver crashed. So the 3G is not available right now ? | 10:07 |
| fabiomssilva | I will not bet on that :) | 10:08 |
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| matt_chen | hmm..... | 10:09 |
| matt_chen | thanks ~ ;-) | 10:09 |
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| cvandonderen-off | hi | 10:23 |
| Stskeeps | hi | 10:23 |
| cvandonderen-off | is there an ETA on the qemu-gl VM for OpenSuSE? http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_Emulator_QEMU | 10:24 |
| cvandonderen-off | opensuse is still on ETA | 10:24 |
| cvandonderen-off | *TBD | 10:24 |
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| lolloo | is meego out for N900? | 10:34 |
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| lolloo | is meego out for N900? | 10:37 |
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| sandst1 | lolloo: you can get the latest image from http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/meego-codedrop.php | 10:38 |
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| lolloo | hey, thanks sandst1 | 10:38 |
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| lolloo | whats that | 10:39 |
| lolloo | wrong mate | 10:39 |
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| lolloo | am asking about meeeeego | 10:39 |
| lolloo | is meego released for n900? | 10:40 |
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| TermanaN900 | lolloo, that link is for meeeeego | 10:40 |
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| lolloo | hahaha | 10:40 |
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| lolloo | omg is it official? | 10:40 |
| TermanaN900 | lolloo, it has the weekly releases. The official 1.1 release will come in october | 10:40 |
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| lolloo | omg so nice | 10:41 |
| TermanaN900 | well, october the last time k checked the release schedule :P | 10:41 |
| lolloo | I hope it will support Multi-boot | 10:41 |
| TermanaN900 | I checked* | 10:41 |
| lolloo | I really nead duel boot n900 | 10:41 |
| lolloo | maemo + meego | 10:42 |
| Surfa | most likely possible | 10:42 |
| lolloo | with kernel image i hope so | 10:42 |
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| aladds | duel boot? Is that where the systems battle for who gets to load their kernel? | 10:43 |
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| TermanaN900 | Theres several ways you can already do this with the weekly releases, but not really anything official afaik (for on the fly, you can of cause sideload the kernel with flasher if you have a computer next to you) | 10:44 |
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| lolloo | omg that would be awesome TermanaN900 | 10:45 |
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| cvandonderen-off | did anybody actually test the virtio-gl module on OpenSuSE? | 10:55 |
| cvandonderen-off | because it says it is only supported for 2.6.33 and 2.6.35 | 10:55 |
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| cvandonderen-off | and suse is 2.6.31 | 10:55 |
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| vlj | hi people | 11:13 |
| vlj | meego does not handle multi screen very well | 11:13 |
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| Jaffa | Mo9ring, all | 11:50 |
| Jaffa | lbt: Another great email, you're spot on | 11:50 |
| lbt | somehow it feels like we're missing the hidden agenda | 11:53 |
| Stskeeps | you're assuming there's one | 11:53 |
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| Jaffa | Stskeeps: The space argument is so obviously spurious... | 11:54 |
| Stskeeps | while it's hard to say it feels a bit like compliance is made by people without practical experience. | 11:54 |
| lbt | The arguments put forwards seem unreasonably week | 11:54 |
| lbt | weak | 11:54 |
| * Jaffa imagines that some vendors perhaps don't want any repo/package install - but still be "compliant" | 11:54 | |
| lbt | I guess I assumed competence/experience and hence politics/commercial pressure | 11:54 |
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| Stskeeps | start with the package naming.. | 11:56 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 11:56 |
| Stskeeps | so, who's drafting a proper compliance proposal? ;) | 11:57 |
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| X-Fade | A central Surrounds repo would also solve the colliding names issue. At least make it better. | 11:58 |
| * Jaffa starts paying attn to Mary McDonald | 11:58 | |
| X-Fade | Worst thing we can have is having 1M different repos. | 11:58 |
| lbt | *nod* | 11:58 |
| slaine | unfortunately it seems to be heading that way | 11:59 |
| lbt | Should Surrounds be "released" and frozen? | 11:59 |
| X-Fade | And as we are using an OBS, everything automatically gets built against newer versions etc. | 11:59 |
| X-Fade | So breakage would be detected a lot easier. | 11:59 |
| X-Fade | lbt: I guess -devel and stable? | 11:59 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: maybe a higher cycle than meego releases? | 11:59 |
| lbt | *nod* | 12:00 |
| lbt | or somehow versioned? | 12:00 |
| X-Fade | Or have it dynamic in :current: and stable in release versions? | 12:00 |
| lbt | no, forget that | 12:00 |
| Stskeeps | we all seem to be assuming that vendor devices will be updating from repo.meego.com though | 12:00 |
| Stskeeps | which i highly doubt | 12:00 |
| lbt | Stskeeps: updating? installing? | 12:00 |
| Stskeeps | both | 12:00 |
| lbt | updating I agree is unlikley | 12:01 |
| lbt | installing from community meego.com though... I expect that to be available | 12:01 |
| lbt | maybe not by default, but by some kind of config | 12:02 |
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| X-Fade | Yeah, I guess that from the start no product will have it enabled by default. | 12:03 |
| X-Fade | But we provide an attactive source of apps, people will use it. | 12:03 |
| X-Fade | s/But/But if/ | 12:04 |
| infobot | X-Fade meant: But if we provide an attactive source of apps, people will use it. | 12:04 |
| Stskeeps | how will OCS and that stuff do things? | 12:04 |
| X-Fade | It will just provide a view on top of a repo. | 12:04 |
| X-Fade | It will just index all repos we support and show things based on the requested repo. | 12:05 |
| lbt | X-Fade: it could trivially solve the dependency installation thing couldn't it? | 12:05 |
| Stskeeps | next question.. | 12:05 |
| X-Fade | lbt: OCS is just diplay. | 12:05 |
| Stskeeps | nm | 12:05 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 12:05 |
| X-Fade | With BOSS we can have multiple repo promotions if we want. | 12:06 |
| X-Fade | So we could go for an Extras:Pure, and an Extras:ALotCooler ;) | 12:06 |
| X-Fade | Where the Pure version only builds against pure meego. | 12:07 |
| lbt | mmm... I'm not giving in yet :) | 12:07 |
| lbt | I'd push it by launching the OBS as we have it now :) | 12:07 |
| X-Fade | Yeah, that is what I'd do. | 12:07 |
| lbt | ready for the conference .... we can bring this up in the talk | 12:07 |
| X-Fade | Just go for it and change later if needed. | 12:07 |
| lbt | I'd love to stand up and say "sadly if you share code with other people you can't be MeeGo compliant" | 12:08 |
| * CosmoHill has a sneezing fit that signifies that he's awake | 12:08 | |
| X-Fade | It feels a lot of people really like to talk a lot about potential issues. I'd rather *do* and change when there are real issues. | 12:11 |
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| X-Fade | This is happening for the last 5 months or so. We can keep discussing, but we can also finally deliver something ;) | 12:12 |
| lbt | X-Fade: yeah... that's why I'm really trying to put some more time in on the infra too | 12:13 |
| X-Fade | I'd rather have it working with a few known issues than to push it out months more. | 12:15 |
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| lbt | yes... I think LDAP and drupal import of names/credentials is enough to go live | 12:15 |
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| lbt | I have no issues with the service being a touch "flakey" during the early days. | 12:16 |
| X-Fade | We should test with a few test accounts in the current ldap. | 12:16 |
| lbt | *nod* | 12:16 |
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| X-Fade | And when that works, it isn't blocking on us. | 12:16 |
| lbt | I'm hoping to set it up today | 12:16 |
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| CosmoHill | what are you two talking about? | 12:28 |
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| lcuk2 | lbt i just realised the mail I appended last night went just to you (damn google reply button) should I bother sending it further or did I just end up reasserting things already posted? | 12:32 |
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| tekojo | lbt X-Fade ping mikeshaver to get data to ldap, if you need it | 12:34 |
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| X-Fade | lcuk2: I use labs, there is a reply to all plugin there. | 12:35 |
| CosmoHill | hey tekojo | 12:35 |
| tekojo | hi CosmoHill | 12:35 |
| lcuk2 | X-Fade, i dont like mailing lists at the best of times, but lbt got me reading that one | 12:35 |
| lcuk2 | and so I replied | 12:36 |
| lcuk2 | sometimes google replies to the ML | 12:36 |
| CosmoHill | tekojo: are you in london too? | 12:36 |
| lcuk2 | othertimes it goes to the person | 12:36 |
| lcuk2 | its frustrating | 12:36 |
| tekojo | CosmoHill: London? No | 12:36 |
| X-Fade | lcuk2: That is why I reply to all by default. | 12:36 |
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| lcuk2 | and now 9hours later posting it after other replies is just as frustrating | 12:37 |
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| * CosmoHill ponders new soldering iron and electric de-soldering tool | 12:40 | |
| lcuk2 | CosmoHill, for a one shop dealio, just walk into maplin and ask to test their devices :D | 12:40 |
| CosmoHill | hehe | 12:41 |
| lcuk2 | desolder and resolder direct i nthe store :P | 12:41 |
| CosmoHill | "on second thoughts, this isn't want I want" *walk out with soldered part* | 12:41 |
| lcuk2 | or better yet, find a hack lab type place nearby (arduino guys) and wander to one of the meetings | 12:41 |
| lcuk2 | they usually have that sort of stuff at each meeting | 12:41 |
| CosmoHill | http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=35016 << Sale :) | 12:43 |
| lcuk2 | CosmoHill, is that 50watt PMPO or RMS? | 12:44 |
| CosmoHill | maybe | 12:45 |
| CosmoHill | it's basically a dimmer switch connected to a soldering iron | 12:46 |
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| aladds | they do generally have some sort of temperature sensor too | 12:47 |
| CosmoHill | maybe I'd be more willing to buy stuff if I had a job :/ | 12:51 |
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| jacekowski | get a job then | 12:53 |
| CosmoHill | I start my final year at uni next week | 12:54 |
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| CosmoHill | maplin need to buy some more web servers -.- | 12:57 |
| lcuk2 | CosmoHill, maplin servers generally do ok | 12:57 |
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| * CosmoHill wonders if he should get a foutain pen | 13:01 | |
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| lcuk | re differentiation: | 13:20 |
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| lcuk | on android, where are the differentiated mapping or mail apps? | 13:22 |
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| lcuk | or did the core OS supply a good experience | 13:23 |
| Myrtti | I love the default ones | 13:23 |
| lcuk | meego should strive to provide the best experience so differentiation isnt needed | 13:23 |
| Myrtti | but there is a fork of for example of the default (non-GMail) app, K9-mail or something or other | 13:24 |
| lcuk | and if its desired we should be trying to pull vendors together to help make those reference apps the best on the platform for everyone | 13:24 |
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| lcuk | Myrtti, which provider runs with that as default? | 13:24 |
| lcuk | or is that just a user installable alternative (important) | 13:24 |
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| Myrtti | I haven't got a clue, I've not really looked into the metaphysics of the matter. | 13:25 |
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| lcuk | i just think that meego pushing bodily for each company to invent their own wheel kinda goes against the ethos and communal barn building that would be best | 13:26 |
| Myrtti | the bliss of having a free unlocked N1 | 13:26 |
| lcuk | well you got yours also from google directly | 13:26 |
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| lcuk | errr s/barn/city/ | 13:27 |
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| slaine | disapponted to see the openpeak tablet has switched to android | 14:27 |
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| lcuk | slaine, shit happens | 14:29 |
| lcuk | can meego handset apps run well on the netbook? | 14:29 |
| slaine | not tried it, but I haven't seen anything to say it doesn't | 14:30 |
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| lcuk | hm | 14:30 |
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| lcuk | would they need building by individuals | 14:31 |
| lcuk | or do we expect them to be available in the standard repo? | 14:31 |
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| slaine | I believe the latter, but that's not based on anything I can link to | 14:32 |
| lcuk | its ok i havent got a netbook to run it on anyway | 14:33 |
| slaine | I do, but not much in the way of time for dabbling | 14:33 |
| lcuk | i wouldnt like to dabble, I would like to know what to get enthused about :) | 14:34 |
| slaine | lol | 14:34 |
| lcuk | pretty "meh" at hearing so much about reference experiences and having to wait until differentiation occurs etc | 14:35 |
| slaine | that's what dabbling does, gives you a taste, see if it's worth getting excited over | 14:35 |
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| lcuk | slaine, the other day I was sat in a coffee shop | 14:35 |
| lcuk | running same apps I have run for a while | 14:35 |
| lcuk | and someone almost fell onto the next table craning his neck to peek at my screen | 14:36 |
| slaine | lol | 14:36 |
| lcuk | thats the sort of reaction all meego should have | 14:36 |
| slaine | love it when that happens | 14:36 |
| slaine | I got that on the plane on Monday | 14:36 |
| lcuk | what were you running? | 14:37 |
| slaine | I was playing with clutter on my Meego 1.0 netbook on a flight back from IBC, all the people on the plane had been to IBC I think. | 14:37 |
| lcuk | ibc? | 14:37 |
| slaine | the people on either side of me where staring at the screen for ages while I used it | 14:37 |
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| slaine | http://www.ibc.org | 14:37 |
| lcuk | ibc.org? | 14:37 |
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| lcuk | i am on vnc, just use words | 14:38 |
| slaine | Digital media show | 14:38 |
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| slaine | from content creation, TV cameras, sat systems down to TV's, STB's cabling, everything | 14:38 |
| lcuk | cool | 14:38 |
| lcuk | what were you running on clutter that got people noticing? | 14:39 |
| slaine | We do a lot of IPTV/VOD for patients at hospitals, so it's important to keep on top of the tech | 14:39 |
| lcuk | ta | 14:39 |
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| slaine | Basically, I was just goofing around with some of our UI pngs | 14:39 |
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| slaine | seeing if I could mock up an animated interface for the STB | 14:39 |
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| lcuk | you got screenies? | 14:40 |
| slaine | There was nothing particularly fancy | 14:40 |
| slaine | Not yet | 14:40 |
| lcuk | it never is, i filled a screen with moving stars and bacon | 14:40 |
| lcuk | about 2 years ago | 14:40 |
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| lcuk | it was just a test of alpha blending | 14:40 |
| lcuk | but people liked it :) | 14:40 |
| slaine | I'm thinking it was meego, app switching and my app moving images around and having them bounce when clicked was attention grabbing | 14:41 |
| slaine | more the first two than the later | 14:41 |
| slowness | Kristian: why?meego-codedrop-arm-n900-closed-201003311635.ubiimg and kernel image: meego-handset-armv5tel-n900-nokia-proprietary-1.0.80.13.20100803.2-vmlinuz-2.6.35~rc6-133.2-n900 or meego-n900-open-armv7l-1.0.0.20100525.1-vmlinuz-2.6.33.3-11.2-n900. To install it I followed http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Install/NAND. But at the end, I've kernel panic, nothing boot and I returned to Maemo. | 14:41 |
| lcuk | slaine, its annoying at times | 14:41 |
| slowness | What I did wrong? | 14:41 |
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| lcuk | the liqbase stuff has something called "pysics view" i used to do it just for skecthes but its on the playground by default | 14:42 |
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| lcuk | and it lets the grid of widgets be sized and self adjust themselves | 14:42 |
| lcuk | lovely effect | 14:42 |
| lcuk | but frustrating when you move accidentally | 14:42 |
| lcuk | so it needs enabling/disabling | 14:42 |
| slaine | I've seen one or two of your demos' on youtube before, this the libqbase stuff ? | 14:42 |
| lcuk | because people just want to click things | 14:42 |
| lcuk | yea | 14:42 |
| schoenemann | Hi, I've problems running the MeeGo sdk using Xephyr | 14:43 |
| lcuk | physics view * | 14:43 |
| lcuk | eep schoenemann | 14:43 |
| schoenemann | I only get the Xephyr window which is black | 14:43 |
| lcuk | did the Nokia CBD patch get into xephyr already? | 14:44 |
| schoenemann | lcuk: how can I check that? | 14:44 |
| lcuk | schoenemann, it was a joke, apologies | 14:44 |
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| lcuk | did anything come up on the console | 14:44 |
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| lcuk | when you started it | 14:44 |
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| fabiomssilva | what is your grapics card ? | 14:45 |
| lcuk | ( CBD is Nokias new screen technology for blacker than black pixels, its not a software thing ) | 14:45 |
| schoenemann | lcuk: when running ./startmeego there is no output on the console | 14:45 |
| schoenemann | fabiomssilva: it's a Intel graphics | 14:45 |
| schoenemann | fabiomssilva: I think a i915 chip | 14:45 |
| fabiomssilva | I was having the same problem but I have NVidia ! | 14:46 |
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| lcuk | schoenemann, thats not good at all | 14:47 |
| * lcuk thinks console output is vital to diagnostics | 14:48 | |
| schoenemann | when running ./startmeego-debug there is much more | 14:49 |
| lcuk | :D | 14:50 |
| schoenemann | there are also some error about DBus | 14:50 |
| lcuk | any of it say "running cool all black on black ux" | 14:50 |
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| lcuk | Myrtti, agreed about your last RT | 14:51 |
| schoenemann | lcuk: you are right. currently I'm using the "black hole" theme ;-) | 14:51 |
| lcuk | nice, do you have screenshots *grin* | 14:51 |
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| lcuk | which version of the sdk are you running? | 14:52 |
| schoenemann | maybe this could be a problem: SysUidRequest::SysUidRequest(): failed to register dbus service | 14:52 |
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| schoenemann | lcuk: the one linked from the wiki pages | 14:53 |
| schoenemann | lcuk: meego-handset-ia32-1.0.80.9.20100706.1-sdk-pre0901.raw.tar.bz2 | 14:53 |
| schoenemann | there is also a message saying: MWindow: Switching to software rendering | 14:54 |
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| lcuk | ok so you have done the export display bit I gather? | 14:55 |
| schoenemann | lcuk: | 14:56 |
| schoenemann | lcuk: right | 14:56 |
| lcuk | hmm what main os is it running on? | 14:56 |
| schoenemann | lcuk: runs on openSuSE 11.2 | 14:56 |
| schoenemann | lcuk: also added localhost to xhost list | 14:57 |
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| schoenemann | lcuk: and copied the .Xauthority file to the home directory of the chroot /root/ directory | 14:57 |
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| lcuk | that doesnt sound good then, Stskeeps would you have any hints? | 14:57 |
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| lcuk | or anyone else - thers loads of info in scrollback about what hes done/doing and tried | 14:58 |
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| Mat_Matan | Hi | 15:51 |
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| * CosmoHill has a eletric desoldering tool now | 16:23 | |
| CosmoHill | I also have bobby for tomorrow :D | 16:23 |
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| MeOnTheGo | i wanted to know whether we could retrieve information related to the DEVICES REQUIRED BY THE PROCESS in running process's queue | 16:32 |
| MeOnTheGo | by using data structure called PROCESS DESCRIPTOR | 16:33 |
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| Stskeeps | MeOnTheGo: some context please :) | 16:33 |
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| madsdk | Hi guys, I'm new to this forum and have just begun playing around with Meego (have been developing stuff for Maemo for the past couple of years though). | 17:14 |
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| Stskeeps | welcome | 17:14 |
| Myrtti | hi | 17:14 |
| madsdk | I have a question about installing Meego on a Dell Latitude XT2 | 17:14 |
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| madsdk | Have anybody done that with success yet? | 17:14 |
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| madsdk | When I boot from the live image everything seems to work, except for the fact that I can't actually click anything :) | 17:15 |
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| * CosmoHill growls at the motherboard | 17:31 | |
| madsdk | I have found that clicking does not work at all - the touch screen doesn't accept click events _and_ the mouse can't click either... | 17:32 |
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| CosmoHill | I think i've furbarred a motherboard | 17:40 |
| lcuk | congratulations CosmoHill | 17:41 |
| CosmoHill | it's been furbarred for a while | 17:41 |
| lcuk | did it throw a fireworks party | 17:41 |
| CosmoHill | nope | 17:41 |
| Myrtti | furbar? that's a new one | 17:41 |
| CosmoHill | erm | 17:42 |
| Myrtti | has your cat coughed up a furball on it | 17:42 |
| CosmoHill | fubar* | 17:42 |
| lcuk | lol | 17:42 |
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| CosmoHill | basically two of the three joins on the motherboard PCB are not melting | 17:43 |
| CosmoHill | so I can't remove them so I can't install the new connector | 17:43 |
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| CosmoHill | I'm just annoyed that the motherboard is fubarred because of two little pricks not come out | 17:45 |
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| CosmoHill | I knew I should have just glued the orginal in place:( | 17:48 |
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| berndhs | CosmoHill: melt the whole thing ? | 17:49 |
| CosmoHill | ? | 17:49 |
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| berndhs | the whole motherboard, and claim warranty | 17:49 |
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| CosmoHill | it's not in warranty | 17:49 |
| berndhs | ah | 17:49 |
| CosmoHill | also it's from a laptop | 17:50 |
| kyb3R | burn the laptop :) | 17:50 |
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| berndhs | so, melt it, and put it in a laptop *with* warranty :) | 17:50 |
| CosmoHill | and what would I tell the owner? | 17:50 |
| kyb3R | uups? | 17:50 |
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| berndhs | tell the owner it melted, and you need a new one | 17:50 |
| CosmoHill | In a word: fu... | 17:50 |
| CosmoHill | wait that sounds like I'm going "f you" :/ | 17:51 |
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| dm8tbr | CosmoHill: melting? like solder? or what? | 17:52 |
| CosmoHill | yeah solder. the orginal solder holding the bits onto the board isn't melting | 17:52 |
| dm8tbr | get a better soldering iron | 17:53 |
| dm8tbr | high power with enough thermal mass | 17:53 |
| CosmoHill | http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=35016 | 17:53 |
| dm8tbr | if you keep heating the pcb with a small iron you might damage some components | 17:53 |
| Myrtti | DawnFoster: mind if I pm? | 17:53 |
| CosmoHill | like that one? | 17:53 |
| DawnFoster | Myrtti: sure, no problem | 17:54 |
| dm8tbr | I don't see the image, but 50W sounds like a start, yeah | 17:54 |
| CosmoHill | http://images.maplin.co.uk/full/n78ar.jpg | 17:55 |
| dm8tbr | yeah that looks OK-ish | 17:55 |
| CosmoHill | next one is three times the price | 17:55 |
| lcuk | CosmoHill, a soldering iron is not powerful enough unless it has jet turbines and warning signs. | 17:56 |
| dm8tbr | not quite like a weller magnastat <3 <3 but should work for most things | 17:56 |
| dm8tbr | a magnastat would set you back 70quid+ used though | 17:56 |
| CosmoHill | lcuk: considering how we have warning signs for the obvious, you'd expect there to be signs on solder irons | 17:57 |
| dm8tbr | a blow-torch is last resort | 17:57 |
| CosmoHill | already spent £15 on the desoldering tool | 17:57 |
| dm8tbr | CosmoHill: like 'hold from the other end'? | 17:57 |
| CosmoHill | "do not pick nose with" | 17:57 |
| * dm8tbr looks at the red mark on his left hand... | 17:58 | |
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| dm8tbr | 'do not scratch your itch with' also applies | 17:58 |
| CosmoHill | just wondering if I want to spent another £15 for something that may already be dead | 17:59 |
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| CosmoHill | dm8tbr: this is the victim btw: http://cross-lfs.org/~cosmo/DSC_0039.JPG | 17:59 |
| dm8tbr | I have no idea in what state .... ah let's take a look | 17:59 |
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| CosmoHill | before | 17:59 |
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| dm8tbr | aaaah, I see your problem | 18:00 |
| dm8tbr | one part of the connector is soldered to the big fat ground-plane of the PCB | 18:00 |
| dm8tbr | huuuge thermal mass, you want an really hot iron with some mass to get rid of that thing | 18:00 |
| * lcuk recalls mentionign this last nighttt | 18:01 | |
| dm8tbr | if the connector is broken anyway, then break away the plastic carefully so that you can extract the pins one by one | 18:01 |
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| dm8tbr | if that is not possible apply a huge solder blob that touches all three pins and melts the solder within them and then pull out the connector quickly and let the blob roll of the pcb _without_ it touching any components | 18:03 |
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| CosmoHill | one pin is out | 18:03 |
| CosmoHill | wait here, I'll get a new pic | 18:03 |
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| CosmoHill | http://cross-lfs.org/~cosmo/solder-bottom.jpg | 18:09 |
| CosmoHill | http://cross-lfs.org/~cosmo/solder-top.jpg | 18:09 |
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| GR | any suggestion how to solve this while running mic-image-creator | 18:11 |
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| GR | Error: failed to create image : URLGrabber error: [Errno 14] HTTP Error 404: Not Found: http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/devel/trunk/repo/arm/os/repodata/repomd.xml | 18:11 |
| dm8tbr | CosmoHill: looks like you're almost done, which of the three holes still has something in it? | 18:11 |
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| CosmoHill | the two nearest the S-Video connector | 18:14 |
| CosmoHill | the one that's clear had the connnector ripped through it :/ | 18:14 |
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| CosmoHill | the big hold nearest the s-video connector is to screw the motherboard down, nothing is soldered to it | 18:15 |
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| CosmoHill | lcuk: you may have but I don't recall | 18:18 |
| CosmoHill | I do remember it being about 1am tho | 18:18 |
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| CosmoHill | I think you're probably right about needing a hotter soldering iron since the s-video and usb shelding becomes very hot | 18:22 |
| CosmoHill | and if they're becoming hot it means the heat is spreading | 18:22 |
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| CosmoHill | luck, dm8tbr and TSCHakeeeee, thanks very much for your help btw :) | 18:25 |
| dm8tbr | np | 18:27 |
| dm8tbr | now clean the holes with some desoldering pump and desoldering 'mesh' | 18:28 |
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| dm8tbr | and fit the new connector | 18:28 |
| CosmoHill | the problem is that there are still pins in the holes | 18:28 |
| CosmoHill | I think I need a better picture | 18:29 |
| dm8tbr | ah, well get a large soldering iron then | 18:29 |
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| CosmoHill | http://cross-lfs.org/~cosmo/soldering-marked.jpg | 18:39 |
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| CosmoHill | http://cross-lfs.org/~cosmo/DSC_0082.JPG | 18:39 |
| CosmoHill | the bits circled in red are the two pins | 18:40 |
| dm8tbr | yeah, both are attached to the ground plane | 18:40 |
| dm8tbr | you need to use a very hot iron and excessive ammounts of solder | 18:41 |
| CosmoHill | damn | 18:41 |
| dm8tbr | then they will just fall out ;) | 18:41 |
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| CosmoHill | how does the rest of the board look | 18:41 |
| dm8tbr | or better an iron with large thermal mass that can heat one or both spots quick enough | 18:41 |
| CosmoHill | the bits above the soldering spot look kinda eep | 18:41 |
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| dm8tbr | I don't see any problems | 18:42 |
| CosmoHill | awesome | 18:42 |
| CosmoHill | I wonder if I could use two soldering irons at once... | 18:42 |
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| CosmoHill | dm8tbr: just poked about with a DMM, it would explain why nearby parts were getting hot too | 18:48 |
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| dm8tbr | CosmoHill: please also notice the many vias this has, and it's obviously multilayer, so there is most likely a large ground layer that goes across the whole pcb | 19:00 |
| CosmoHill | so don't apply heat directly to the ground | 19:02 |
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| dm8tbr | CosmoHill: no, apply insane ammounts of heat localized to those two spots, so that only those spots melt | 19:04 |
| dm8tbr | be faster than the heat propagation ;) | 19:04 |
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| dm8tbr | with an small iron you'll end up slowly heating the whole board before the solder melts | 19:05 |
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| dm8tbr | bbl | 19:05 |
| CosmoHill | should I care about low voltage and anti-static stuff? | 19:05 |
| dm8tbr | keep things grounded | 19:06 |
| dm8tbr | but that's for bonus points | 19:06 |
| dm8tbr | main thing is: BIG FAT SOLDERING IRON ;-þ | 19:06 |
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| CosmoHill | I think I had my bass to loud, it feels like my head had been rattled | 19:08 |
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| CosmoHill | btw is it a good or bad thing that my new desoldering tool started smoking when it was warming up? | 19:20 |
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| sofar | I think that's normal. even new irons smoke on the first warmup | 19:23 |
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| smoku | if it was new it is normal. there is some stuff from the manufacturing process that needs to burn down | 19:24 |
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| CosmoHill | ah good | 19:24 |
| smoku | it should pass in a few minutes | 19:24 |
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| CosmoHill | I liked that when I pushed the pluncher a puff of smoke came out the end :) | 19:24 |
| sofar | a lot of consumer electronics have explicit messages saying that they may generate smoke on the first use | 19:25 |
| sofar | even my wifes crockpot :) | 19:25 |
| CosmoHill | this packaging was useless | 19:25 |
| CosmoHill | I didn't find out it was 30w before I took it out the packaging | 19:25 |
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| CosmoHill | and it didn't mention anyway you shouldn't scratch an itch with it :o | 19:26 |
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| smoku | Opening the box means agreeing to the licensing terms. You will find the licensing terms inside the box. | 19:26 |
| CosmoHill | nope | 19:26 |
| smoku | a joke ;-) | 19:26 |
| CosmoHill | ah | 19:26 |
| smoku | something along the lines was on some microsoft products | 19:27 |
| CosmoHill | this is one of the drawbacks of having a text based conversation | 19:27 |
| CosmoHill | I read that: 10% is what you say, 30% is the way you say it and 60% is body language | 19:27 |
| smoku | yup. but isn't the contradiction obvious? :) | 19:27 |
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| CosmoHill | ah yes I see it now | 19:28 |
| sofar | some people have no sense of sarcasm ;) | 19:28 |
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| smoku | sofar, I'm just watching second season of "The Big Bang Theory"... tell me about :) | 19:28 |
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| Stskeeps | oh, TSG tonight | 19:31 |
| * Stskeeps forgot | 19:31 | |
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| CosmoHill | ah cool | 19:35 |
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| CosmoHill | I didn't even know | 19:35 |
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| CosmoHill | http://wiki.meego.com/Technical_Steering_Group_meetings | 19:36 |
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| theplic | hi how do i use an external c++ library within qt creator which i use from within the meego-netbook developer image | 19:40 |
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| CosmoHill | when you say external you mean still within /usr ? | 19:44 |
| theplic | CosmoHill: i mean its on my hd :) | 19:44 |
| CosmoHill | could you not just specifc #include <foo.h> ? | 19:45 |
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| theplic | CosmoHill: i have downloaded this library for xmlrpc. now i have no idea how to use it within qt cretor which i invoke from the xephyr cli | 19:46 |
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| DawnFoster | Just a quick reminder that we have a TSG meeting today - starting in about 2 hours. Details: http://wiki.meego.com/Technical_Steering_Group_meetings | 19:55 |
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| amjad | Stskeeps: do i qualify to get a build.meego.com account?? or is it still open only to nokia/intel developers?? | 20:41 |
| Stskeeps | amjad: not up to me to decide :) | 20:42 |
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| amjad | any one i can contact and ask for :)?? | 20:43 |
| sofar | it's still closed | 20:44 |
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| amjad | ok so i have to work with community obs then :( | 20:44 |
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| slowness | Hi. I can't anywhere 100% answer of: does meego is available to install n900? I mean whole system with X, window manager? Does is still experimental? | 20:49 |
| Stskeeps | yes, it's still experimental, but images are provided on http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/meego-codedrop.php | 20:49 |
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| Stskeeps | it has a handset u | 20:49 |
| Stskeeps | x | 20:49 |
| slowness | Stskeeps: Ok, thanks. Do you use it on n900? Which file I should download: http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/meego-codedrop.php?f=meego-codedrop-arm-n900-closed-201003311635.ubiimg, and http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/meego-codedrop.php?f=meego-handset-armv5tel-n900-nokia-proprietary-1.0.80.13.20100803.2-vmlinuz-2.6.35%7Erc6-133.2-n900 (kernel image). I'm asking because I tried to install it and as a end result system does not boot at all. | 20:51 |
| Stskeeps | wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Install/MMC | 20:51 |
| Stskeeps | get the weekly releases, not ubimg :) | 20:51 |
| slowness | But I want to install directly on n900. I don't want to use MMC. | 20:53 |
| Stskeeps | well, you have to :P | 20:53 |
| Stskeeps | it doesn't fit in NAND | 20:53 |
| slowness | Stskeeps: really? There is not other way? | 20:54 |
| Stskeeps | no other way | 20:54 |
| Stskeeps | well | 20:54 |
| Stskeeps | there's nfs boot | 20:54 |
| Stskeeps | but that's just a waste of your time better spent buying a microsd | 20:54 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 20:54 |
| sofar | compressed btrfs ftw | 20:54 |
| sofar | :) | 20:54 |
| Stskeeps | sofar: it works on aava now? | 20:54 |
| Stskeeps | we started our first moves to get it on n900 todaay | 20:55 |
| sofar | we're getting there | 20:55 |
| Stskeeps | k | 20:55 |
| sofar | get about 50% compression rate on images | 20:55 |
| sofar | afk driving to work | 20:55 |
| dneary | Stskeeps, hi there! | 20:55 |
| Stskeeps | hi h | 20:55 |
| Stskeeps | ii | 20:55 |
| dneary | No need to be nervous... | 20:56 |
| Stskeeps | sorry, laggy connection :) | 20:56 |
| dneary | Stskeeps, You have some maintainer rights for test.maemo.org don't you? | 20:56 |
| Stskeeps | dneary: not afaik | 20:56 |
| dneary | buggre | 20:56 |
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| Stskeeps | i was (blessed?) not to be having anything to do with the infra :P | 20:56 |
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| CosmoHill | 1 hour until the TSG meeting | 21:02 |
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| Stskeeps | my memory must be really shot, i forgot that's happening (second time today) | 21:04 |
| CosmoHill | hehe | 21:05 |
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| CosmoHill | that was stupid, I set my alerm for 5 mins ago | 21:06 |
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| sjokkis | hi. couple of small problems with the desktop version you guys might be able to help me with. for one, my speakers aren't muted when i connect headphones, which i would like them to be. second, alt+left/right change tty, which i would rather not. | 21:09 |
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| Myrtti | lolwhathappen | 21:25 |
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| npm_ | did i come away from yesterdays mtg w/ wrong impression? ; lets say i build something like http://www.global.yamaha.com/tenori-on/index.html with meego. can i call it meego if it is neither desktop/netbook/phone-handheld. it might be a handheld, but it wouldn't have any networking eqpt... so would i not be able to call it meego? | 21:32 |
| CosmoHill | half an hour until the meeting | 21:32 |
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| DawnFoster | The TSG meeting starts in 15 minutes: http://wiki.meego.com/Technical_Steering_Group_meetings | 21:45 |
| DawnFoster | ha! beat CosmoHill to one reminder :) | 21:46 |
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| sjokkis | DawnFoster: Any chance MeeGo will open a request queue for developers needing development platforms (e.g. N900s), the way Maemo did? | 21:47 |
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| th0br0 | :P DawnFoster, but where is the countdown? ;) | 21:53 |
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| DawnFoster | sjokkis: Not sure, but that's probably a pretty good idea | 21:55 |
| DawnFoster | sjokkis: can you post that question to the meego-community mailing list? | 21:55 |
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| CosmoHill | 5 mins untill meeting | 21:55 |
| CosmoHill | DawnFoster: these reminders are for me more than anyone else :o | 21:56 |
| sjokkis | DawnFoster: yes | 21:56 |
| DawnFoster | CosmoHill: whatever it takes | 21:56 |
| lbt | sjokkis: see :) | 21:57 |
| sjokkis | lbt: you suggested she'd say no! | 21:57 |
| lbt | I did not! | 21:57 |
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| lbt | Dawn's the one to make it happen | 21:58 |
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| DawnFoster | ooh, I like to be the one to make stuff happen :) | 21:58 |
| sjokkis | i'll write up a request. it doesn't have to be very formal, i hope | 21:58 |
| lbt | sjokkis: but we're about to have the TSG meeting in #meego-meeting so busy for an houe | 21:58 |
| DawnFoster | it's a great idea, and I can probably get Intel to kick in some netbooks | 21:58 |
| lbt | :P | 21:59 |
| sjokkis | lbt: that's okay. i got what i needed | 21:59 |
| DawnFoster | sjokkis: nothing formal | 21:59 |
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| DawnFoster | we can work on the details during the discussion | 21:59 |
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| lbt | yay... Go Kate (on the ml) | 22:00 |
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| lbt | Jaffa: ... ready to talk to Mark S | 22:01 |
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| CosmoHill | Stskeeps: meeting :) | 22:06 |
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| GAN900 | lbt, go indeed. | 22:12 |
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| * GAN900 scolds qgilN900 for obnoxious use of e.g. | 22:13 | |
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| slavik | anyone here allowed to release information about screen resolution for the Nokia N9 that knows it? | 22:22 |
| CosmoHill | nope | 22:22 |
| slavik | :( | 22:22 |
| slavik | I was considering sending my resume in, just to get hired and find out :P | 22:23 |
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| * CosmoHill wonders were we fit in in this topic | 22:26 | |
| Myrtti | I thought the idea of the Local Networks was mainly to endorse physical meetings | 22:26 |
| Myrtti | amirite? | 22:26 |
| lbt | I thought it was to distribute T-shirts | 22:27 |
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| CosmoHill | and stickers±! | 22:28 |
| lbt | and cider | 22:28 |
| slavik | stickers are awesome | 22:28 |
| slavik | also, can meego run on an E90? | 22:29 |
| CosmoHill | cider :o | 22:29 |
| Mat_Matan | E90 have symbian s60 (?) | 22:30 |
| slavik | yes | 22:30 |
| slavik | E90 runs s60 v3 | 22:30 |
| Mat_Matan | so, you can't run other OS | 22:31 |
| slavik | is it because it is symbian? | 22:31 |
| Mat_Matan | yes | 22:32 |
| slavik | I see, thanks. | 22:32 |
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| jnwi | Has anyone here used Qt Script Generator? | 22:37 |
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| flyman | I am starting to download the Netbook ISO and run it in Oracle VM... I want to start developing for it but where can I find a list of released apps so I can make ones that don't exist? | 22:40 |
| lbt | lcuk: tried a BMW... prefer my Jag | 22:41 |
| GAN900 | lbt, really? | 22:41 |
| GAN900 | lbt, in which class and why? | 22:41 |
| lbt | XKR ... looks sexy | 22:41 |
| GAN900 | lbt, ah. | 22:41 |
| flyman | lbt, I like my XJ8 better than a BMW 3-5 series | 22:41 |
| lbt | mmmm yummy... | 22:42 |
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| lcuk | lbt indeed you do, better now its fixed! | 22:42 |
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| lbt | mind you ... 2005 model "top of the range" ... has a cassette deck! | 22:42 |
| lbt | probably won't run meego | 22:42 |
| Stskeeps | plug in a c64 | 22:43 |
| GAN900 | BMW sedans bore me to death. | 22:43 |
| lbt | I have my ARM based linux Empeg in there | 22:43 |
| lbt | QUESTION: Will MeeGo run on my 10yr old Empeg? | 22:43 |
| auke | car interiors should bore you to death - you're supposed to look at the road | 22:44 |
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| auke | lbt: heh | 22:44 |
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| CosmoHill | should be very easy to use and very quick to use to minimise the about of time your eyes are off the road | 22:45 |
| CosmoHill | if my ipod plays up when I'm driving I just turn it off | 22:45 |
| GAN900 | auke, not the interior. | 22:45 |
| Stskeeps | i vote for tetris on the windscreen | 22:45 |
| GAN900 | auke, driving feel. ;) | 22:45 |
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| lbt | here we go.... | 22:45 |
| lcuk | lol Stskeeps | 22:45 |
| auke | brace for impact | 22:46 |
| CosmoHill | Stskeeps: HUD Tetris :o | 22:46 |
| CosmoHill | sweaving left and right over the motorway to get the blocks in the right place | 22:46 |
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| TomaszD | Stskeeps, no chance for fluid handset ux on the freerunner eh? | 22:47 |
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| Stskeeps | TomaszD: if you take some drug that slows down your perception, maybe | 22:47 |
| TomaszD | hmm | 22:47 |
| lbt | CosmoHill: controlled by accelerometer | 22:47 |
| CosmoHill | accelerator :) | 22:47 |
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| lcuk | TomaszD, what res does it run at? | 22:48 |
| lcuk | and CosmoHill AWESOME! | 22:48 |
| TomaszD | vga | 22:48 |
| lcuk | can it be changed? | 22:48 |
| TomaszD | reverse vga, 480x640 | 22:48 |
| flyman | 20:36M Left until MeeGo is downloaded! After, programming to the m4x0r | 22:49 |
| TomaszD | well, people try running it at half res | 22:49 |
| lcuk | TomaszD, software scaling? or set at the ioctl level to the graphics card? | 22:49 |
| TomaszD | no idea | 22:49 |
| lcuk | does it have 3d? | 22:50 |
| TomaszD | I'm still waiting for a new battery to boot it, flash it, so I can charge the dead one.. | 22:50 |
| TomaszD | it has -glamo | 22:50 |
| TomaszD | also called a decellerator | 22:50 |
| th0br0 | :D | 22:51 |
| th0br0 | in the end, the freerunner was a fail unfortunately :( | 22:51 |
| TomaszD | with android cupcake it's workable, with qtmoko it's actually nice | 22:52 |
| th0br0 | true. | 22:52 |
| th0br0 | but it's unresponsive by modern standards | 22:52 |
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| th0br0 | and then there's the buzz... | 22:52 |
| TomaszD | qtmoko comes close | 22:52 |
| TomaszD | I don't have the buzz (a5) | 22:52 |
| th0br0 | ah :) | 22:52 |
| TomaszD | but a5 has a fun feature that doesn't let it power on off the charger | 22:54 |
| TomaszD | too small capacitor(s) or something | 22:54 |
| th0br0 | heh. | 22:55 |
| th0br0 | i think the overall idea was nice but the freerunner clearly lacked in terms of realization | 22:55 |
| TomaszD | I think the problem was software, it took too long to set it straight | 22:56 |
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| th0br0 | that, too. | 22:56 |
| lbt | OK .. if no-one else cares I here-by give up | 22:56 |
| th0br0 | plus quite some hardware problems :( | 22:56 |
| th0br0 | lbt: give up for today? | 22:56 |
| CosmoHill | hey th0br0 | 22:56 |
| th0br0 | or always? | 22:56 |
| TomaszD | the specs aren't that terrible | 22:56 |
| th0br0 | heya CosmoHill | 22:56 |
| Stskeeps | lbt, think we're a bit sidetracked on terms | 22:56 |
| berndhs | lbt: this is a bad sign | 22:56 |
| th0br0 | true TomaszD, but isn't the screen bad due to too "small" connections? | 22:56 |
| TomaszD | screen bad in what way? | 22:57 |
| th0br0 | slow? | 22:57 |
| th0br0 | i mean 3d stuff here mainly. | 22:57 |
| CosmoHill | the only thing I understood in todays meeting was the Smeegol thing | 22:57 |
| TomaszD | glamo is awful | 22:57 |
| slavik | Nokia needs to do what Xerox did ... | 22:57 |
| lbt | frankly these things come up and no-one wants to discuss them | 22:58 |
| th0br0 | yeah TomaszD :( | 22:58 |
| DawnFoster | lbt: we said we wanted to discuss it on the mailing list | 22:58 |
| th0br0 | but anyway, let's rather look forward to meego powered devices :) | 22:58 |
| DawnFoster | the TSG is intended as an approval meeting | 22:58 |
| slavik | build a billion dollar campus in NY, put the smart people there and just give them one project: "make a kickass phone" | 22:58 |
| DawnFoster | we always take the meaty discussions back to the list | 22:58 |
| lbt | DawnFoster: and I wanted feedback on that approach | 22:59 |
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| lbt | is Imad intending to make OSS 2nd class? | 22:59 |
| th0br0 | slavik: xerox? (+1 on the idea tho!) | 22:59 |
| slavik | yes | 22:59 |
| slavik | Xerox PARC | 22:59 |
| lbt | DawnFoster: Is that an acceptable outcome? | 22:59 |
| Stskeeps | lbt, i don't see the oss being the point - external deps is | 22:59 |
| slavik | invented: ethernet, GUI, mouse, objective C | 22:59 |
| lbt | yeah... but come on | 22:59 |
| Stskeeps | cos a oss app could easily be compliant | 22:59 |
| mskarpne | lbt: no - but you can't just brush aside the needs of those deploying a device - that won't fly | 23:00 |
| DawnFoster | I agree with Stskeeps | 23:00 |
| slavik | probably bunch of other stuff | 23:00 |
| slavik | laser printers? | 23:00 |
| lbt | all closed apps deliver a huge blobl | 23:00 |
| berndhs | Stskeeps: a big part is device manufacturers want to keep their business and development models | 23:00 |
| mskarpne | lbt: let's continue the discussion - I have to run | 23:00 |
| lbt | you download 20Mb for a damned desktop widget | 23:00 |
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| lbt | mskarpne:... | 23:00 |
| lcuk | its a damned good desktop widget though! | 23:00 |
| lbt | lcuk: of course, it has python embedded | 23:00 |
| lcuk | :D | 23:00 |
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| lbt | Stskeeps: so it *is* OSS vs closed | 23:01 |
| lbt | but I'm talking bazaar vs cathedral.... not license | 23:01 |
| Stskeeps | lbt, ok, so, philosophy not licensing | 23:01 |
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| Stskeeps | that was the sidetracking | 23:01 |
| lbt | sharing, building on the works of others, innovating with minimal tweaks | 23:02 |
| berndhs | lbt: its about barriers to entry as well | 23:02 |
| lbt | not taking on the burden of maintaining the ssl library that you have to now bundle to run your facebook widget | 23:02 |
| lcuk | closed libraries cannot be used in the core can they? | 23:02 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk, no, which is exact same situation.. | 23:02 |
| lcuk | supposing Surrounds or extras or community repo gets going | 23:03 |
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| lcuk | and supposing a library is used by 50 apps | 23:03 |
| GAN900 | lbt, well, I really appreciate you championing these issues | 23:03 |
| lbt | *nod* | 23:03 |
| lcuk | at some point, someone will say "can this library go into the core" | 23:03 |
| Stskeeps | i think what we really need is an answer to 'how to handle apis that arent in meego yet' | 23:03 |
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| Stskeeps | that is the core of the problem | 23:03 |
| lbt | GAN900: but I sound like a raving FSFer :( | 23:03 |
| lcuk | with the OSS model of community applicaitons (which would follow the meego core principles) | 23:04 |
| lcuk | it would be simple | 23:04 |
| lbt | lcuk: yes of course | 23:04 |
| lcuk | just a repo change | 23:04 |
| Stskeeps | cos innovation will move faster than meego | 23:04 |
| GAN900 | lbt, hardly. | 23:04 |
| lcuk | that is why lbt is pushing it so much (i tihnk) | 23:04 |
| lbt | lcuk: and... when a library is moved out of core... | 23:04 |
| lcuk | indeed - the same happens | 23:04 |
| lbt | it can stay in community and apps don't *have* to abandon it | 23:04 |
| Stskeeps | next question is why we're so hung up on app compliance.. | 23:04 |
| lcuk | :) | 23:04 |
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| * lcuk understands davids intent | 23:04 | |
| lbt | Stskeeps: get your app into a store without it | 23:04 |
| lbt | I challenge you | 23:04 |
| lbt | Ovi won't let you | 23:05 |
| Stskeeps | lbt, right - i mean in terms of a extras like thing | 23:05 |
| lbt | I will take bets | 23:05 |
| lcuk | technically there is problems with OSS apps in ovi anyway | 23:05 |
| slavik | ooh, another question, what kind of repository type of thing will there be for meego? any chance for apt? | 23:05 |
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| lbt | yes.. so "Extras" becomes the *only* place for OSS apps | 23:05 |
| GAN900 | lbt, I, for one, don't have the time or energy to try fighting these battles (especially in MeeGo), and I don't want to see yet another person who can give up. | 23:05 |
| lbt | how many IVI stores will allow that? | 23:05 |
| slavik | or is it going to be some proprietary non-configurable thing that we will need to hack to be able to get our own stuff on? | 23:05 |
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| lcuk | evening felipec \o | 23:06 |
| lbt | GAN ... so did you see the resounding support I got in there? | 23:06 |
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| GAN900 | lbt, silent majority? :D | 23:06 |
| felipec | hey lcuk | 23:06 |
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| lcuk | in a meeting like that silent cannot work | 23:06 |
| * lbt needs more rabble roused | 23:06 | |
| csdb | I think lbt has a point - if you say anything outside of meego-core must be fully self-contained, and these are binary files (not some bytecode), then potentially each one will be quite big. | 23:06 |
| GAN900 | I've given up rabble rousing for MeeGo. | 23:07 |
| lbt | Imad prolly went off thinking I was a nutcase | 23:07 |
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| * lcuk bets he doesnt | 23:07 | |
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| GAN900 | One hardly could if they knew anything about you or your track record. | 23:07 |
| lbt | meh... bad mood | 23:07 |
| Stskeeps | lbt, my primary concern is how we solve the problem in a sane way | 23:07 |
| GAN900 | Although given the fact that the TSG seems incapable of doing preliminary research. . . . | 23:07 |
| csdb | and to say that core will take care of all of the "usual" cases is quite naive | 23:07 |
| lcuk | csdb, I don't think lbt would continue with this if he didn't have a point. | 23:07 |
| lbt | I was hoping mskarpne would stick around | 23:08 |
| lcuk | take a game library like SDL | 23:08 |
| DawnFoster | lbt: imad's been in open source for years, he's seen much bigger nutcases than you :) | 23:08 |
| lcuk | used by thousands of apps | 23:08 |
| lbt | pffft | 23:08 |
| GAN900 | lbt, TSG meetings are checklists. | 23:08 |
| Stskeeps | lbt, and building on top of others is a app developer thing too | 23:08 |
| lcuk | lol DawnFoster | 23:08 |
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| csdb | given that these are binaries, we'll end up with many multi-meg rpms with lots of replicated work | 23:08 |
| lcuk | lbt, the examples I outlined might be more important - to show the steps, I will write them up better | 23:09 |
| lbt | Stskeeps.... I still predict that the compliance thing will bite Extras *so* hard | 23:09 |
| csdb | but that's equally true for proprietary apps that are built on top of OSS libraries | 23:09 |
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| lbt | csdb: yes... LGPL | 23:09 |
| lcuk | is SDL in core? | 23:09 |
| lcuk | because I will use that as an example | 23:09 |
| Stskeeps | lbt, no, it will do the opposite - extras would be where people can do cool apps | 23:09 |
| lbt | Stskeeps: but the exposure will be tiny | 23:09 |
| Stskeeps | as tey can build on new shiny libraries | 23:09 |
| csdb | Android et.all I think get around this by using bytecode, so that even if they throw the kitchen sink into the app, it still isn't that big. | 23:09 |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, so I build something in extras using SDL and want to sell it on ovi or appup | 23:10 |
| * Stskeeps heads to bed | 23:10 | |
| lcuk | the library it uses is a cool thing in extras | 23:10 |
| lbt | lcuk: you bundle SDL | 23:10 |
| lbt | and support it forever | 23:10 |
| slavik | core - kernel and essential libs for kernel? | 23:10 |
| lcuk | but I have 20 games! | 23:10 |
| lbt | night Stskeeps | 23:10 |
| lcuk | or 100 | 23:10 |
| th0br0 | xerox bye Stskeeps | 23:10 |
| lcuk | gnite Stskeeps | 23:11 |
| lbt | lcuk: yes... your device will have 100 SDL library copies... | 23:11 |
| lcuk | :D awesome! | 23:11 |
| lcuk | that will work well | 23:11 |
| lbt | do intel sell flash? | 23:11 |
| lbt | ah! the secret agenda! | 23:11 |
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| lcuk | yes but you have to bundle bang with it too | 23:11 |
| * csdb runs to buy stock in flash manufacturers before word gets out | 23:12 | |
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| lcuk | with each stock you purchase, you also get a broker, his office, house, car and family | 23:13 |
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| csdb | I can see the reverse argument too: that if there are dependencies on non-core stuff, then the runs-on-all meego devs fails. But how real is that if there are multiple archs for the binaries anyways? | 23:13 |
| csdb | I won't expect my app-for-meego-phone to run unchanged on my netbook or car? | 23:14 |
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| lcuk | I could feasibly see at the point of game1 being moved into ovi, also moving sdl | 23:14 |
| lcuk | and syncing it to latest | 23:14 |
| lbt | csdb: so my app has 10 binary files.. how does it matter if they arrive on my device using 10 over 1 tcp connection or 5 each over 2 | 23:14 |
| lcuk | so that to get game1 it would get the latest sdl from ovi repo also | 23:15 |
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| lcuk | but it would remain as a library | 23:15 |
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| lcuk | other than that, i think it would be complex | 23:15 |
| lcuk | getting game2 or game3 would say "ahh you have latest SDL already | 23:15 |
| lbt | lcuk: Surrounds would have to 'release' and freeze too | 23:15 |
| lcuk | sure | 23:15 |
| lcuk | but that sort of dependency movement would be a halfway house | 23:15 |
| csdb | lbt: the point is that if the only external dependencies of your app are things in meego-core, and meego-core is guaranteed to be available on all meego-devs, then the theory is that once your app is built for one meego, | 23:16 |
| GAN900 | I think giving operators so much power to dictate to their customers is a problem, personally. | 23:16 |
| lcuk | and would allow it | 23:16 |
| csdb | it can be rebuild for any meego | 23:16 |
| lcuk | without the issue really | 23:16 |
| csdb | its not about downloads, just availability | 23:16 |
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| lbt | csdb: it's not about rebuild | 23:16 |
| lbt | it's about distribution | 23:16 |
| lcuk | thts not happening though, can the meego netbook core panels thingy work on handset? | 23:16 |
| lbt | potentially I guess, as a standalone file | 23:16 |
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| lbt | anyhow... got to go do work.... | 23:16 |
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| flyman | MeeGo is installing... Vroom! | 23:19 |
| csdb | so building for meego-core doesn't mean works-across-UXes then. Ok, that leaves sticking to meego-core so that it always works-within-UX. Is that the purpose? | 23:19 |
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| csdb | Is the store tied to the phone-vendor or the phone-operator? | 23:19 |
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| flyman | MeeGo very easy to install, horrible to run in Oracle VM VirtualBox. Black screen of death :{ | 23:31 |
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| eikke | is the meego tablet edition available as a qemu image somewhere? | 23:51 |
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