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| Mat_Matan | good night | 00:12 |
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| trem | nite all, sweet dreams | 00:49 |
| Myrtti | good grief | 00:50 |
| Myrtti | that was a bit confusing | 00:50 |
| Myrtti | I'm really missing out some visual cues in the bugzilla :-( | 00:50 |
| RST38h | Myrtti: Like huge WONTFIX signs? | 00:50 |
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| Myrtti | RST38h: "vote" button mainly | 00:51 |
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| RST38h | ah | 00:52 |
| Myrtti | had to go to bugzilla help to read where the bloody thing was because I honestly couldn't see it after staring the browser for five minutes | 00:52 |
| Myrtti | well, now I know | 00:52 |
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| Myrtti | I'm considering filing a bug report on that | 00:52 |
| Myrtti | "is it important enough to waste someones time" | 00:53 |
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| * auke smacks gitorious | 03:08 | |
| espringe | Don't do that, you'll slow it down :( | 03:08 |
| lcuk | its already stopped | 03:09 |
| auke | can't get worse that it has been the last... hour? | 03:09 |
| espringe | Oh, I've been using the internal one | 03:09 |
| espringe | which is just crawling | 03:09 |
| espringe | I see the public one is fully down | 03:10 |
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| CosmoHill | bed time | 03:37 |
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| Mat_Matan | morning | 08:48 |
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| amjad | morn | 08:51 |
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| X-Fade | Morning | 09:50 |
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| keya | Hi, I am new to MeeGo platform and I was trying to look up for some development tools specially related to profiling that are available with MeeGo. I ran in to documentation page of Maemo5 that lists down some dev tools. Under MeeGo documentation I am not able to find anything relevant. Can someone please guide me on it? | 11:01 |
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| dneary | keya, oprofile, valgrind | 11:14 |
| dneary | keya, The Maemo tools should work for meego on arm | 11:14 |
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| dneary | For meego on Atom, your usual desktop profiling & debugging tools should work | 11:14 |
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| dneary | (sysprof, for example) | 11:15 |
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| vlj | hi | 11:18 |
| vlj | Nokia World 2010 is started ? | 11:18 |
| lokesh | anybody manages repos on http://hg.meego.com/ | 11:18 |
| vlj | hg ? | 11:18 |
| vlj | mercurial ? | 11:18 |
| vlj | I though they developed everything on gitorious | 11:19 |
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| keya | dneary> Thanks. Alright. I will check Maemo5 tools then. But why are they not mentioned under MeeGo development tools. | 11:24 |
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| dneary | keya, A young project, some of the docs haven't been created yet | 11:24 |
| dneary | You might want to copy the Maemo developer tools page over to the MeeGo wiki? | 11:24 |
| keya | dneary> I can try that. Can I get back to you on that? | 11:25 |
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| Khertan_ | No meego product launch today | 11:33 |
| Khertan_ | ouch | 11:33 |
| Kubuntiac | Was there meant to be one? | 11:33 |
| sivang | Khertan_: there's still tomorrow | 11:34 |
| sivang | Khertan_: the event is taking place tomorrow as well | 11:34 |
| Khertan_ | Kubuntiac: nope just some hope for announce | 11:34 |
| Khertan_ | : | 11:34 |
| Khertan_ | :) | 11:34 |
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| Kubuntiac | Why today, specifically? | 11:34 |
| Khertan_ | yep good point :) | 11:34 |
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| Kubuntiac | (even if *any* day is a good day for a MeeGo product announcement :) | 11:34 |
| johd | Kubuntiac, nokia world 2010 has just started | 11:36 |
| Kubuntiac | Ahhhhh........ | 11:36 |
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| johd | and some minutes ago, there will be no meego product announcements | 11:36 |
| vlj | hoped for N9 product announcement | 11:36 |
| johd | more of that later this year | 11:36 |
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| Kubuntiac | *sigh* | 11:36 |
| sivang | who's there? | 11:37 |
| Kubuntiac | The rumor I heard was October-November | 11:37 |
| johd | Kubuntiac, it's hard to say when there will be the official announcement | 11:37 |
| sivang | I planned to go there, but flights prices tampered this plan :) | 11:37 |
| Kubuntiac | Sure | 11:37 |
| johd | and it's even harder to say, when they start selling it | 11:37 |
| Kubuntiac | Before Christmas, hopefully! | 11:38 |
| vlj | not this year | 11:38 |
| Kubuntiac | really?! | 11:38 |
| sivang | so if snybody can shed some insight of the event there , that'll be great. | 11:38 |
| Kubuntiac | I'm all ears... | 11:38 |
| johd | Kubuntiac, I'm sure you will be able to order it this year :) | 11:38 |
| vlj | well Nokia is very unlikely to sell a product 2months after an announcement | 11:38 |
| * Kubuntiac is trying to hold back his wife from ordering an Android device | 11:39 | |
| vlj | see nokia N8 | 11:39 |
| vlj | it was announced in...may ? | 11:39 |
| vlj | it should be available in october | 11:39 |
| johd | vlj, I'm with you on that | 11:39 |
| johd | however, when it comes to meego | 11:39 |
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| sivang | I think we need to allow the time for the product to mature out of public for sometime before it goes to sales | 11:39 |
| johd | not the N9, maybe other products | 11:39 |
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| johd | like tablets | 11:39 |
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| sivang | just like the others did, they held back announcment until they felt it was enough time in private maturing process. | 11:40 |
| johd | I think tablets will be top christmas presents this year | 11:40 |
| vlj | sivang: well Noka can sells a "hoobyist phone" like n900 | 11:40 |
| vlj | hobbyist* | 11:40 |
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| sivang | vlj: but it creates negative traction for what I've seen so far.. | 11:41 |
| Kubuntiac | johd: Absolutely. Seems to me if MeeGo doesn't ship *something* for Christmas, that they'll have a very hard time carving out brand recognition next year with the way Android / Apple are going. | 11:42 |
| vlj | well N900 users are satisfaying with it | 11:42 |
| sivang | vlj: since the voice of the hobbyist mostly is drown in the shouts of the mob :) | 11:42 |
| vlj | Kubuntiac: and next year you'll have windows phone 7 | 11:42 |
| Kubuntiac | Ewwwwwwww | 11:42 |
| Kubuntiac | No. I wont. ;P | 11:42 |
| vlj | I see WP7 as a stronger competitor for Meego than Android or iOS | 11:43 |
| vlj | WP7 will be the "new things" | 11:43 |
| vlj | like Meego | 11:43 |
| dneary | keya, Sure! | 11:43 |
| Kubuntiac | WP7? Never heard of it.... | 11:43 |
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| psycho_oreos | another troll for winders | 11:43 |
| Kubuntiac | Ah, Windows Phone 7 | 11:43 |
| vlj | windows phone 7 ;) | 11:43 |
| Kubuntiac | Ok... I *wish* I'd never heard of it | 11:44 |
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| psycho_oreos | oh woops didn't notice this wasn't #meego.. so offtopic | 11:44 |
| sivang | vlj: ask around and see what people, even top notch developers say when you suggest they get an N900, "iPhone!" | 11:44 |
| sivang | vlj: the satisfied audience for that is the Nokia fan hobbyist | 11:44 |
| vlj | well WP7 and Meego release are close, and WP7 have already support from Samsung, LG... | 11:44 |
| sivang | like me, and others who love this device | 11:44 |
| johd | Kubuntiac, you never know | 11:45 |
| Kubuntiac | My sister (not in IT) got an n900. I was stunned. I meant to ask her how she decided on that... | 11:45 |
| TermanaDesire | Wp7. LOL | 11:45 |
| johd | Kubuntiac, it's a bit different since the Galaxies are Andoid devices | 11:45 |
| sivang | Kubuntiac: I guess she's far sighted and less driven by eye candy but more with functionality than the average Jange | 11:45 |
| sivang | Kubuntiac: *Jane | 11:45 |
| johd | however, a lot of people wouldn't buy samsung phones, since they are well known for lack of support | 11:46 |
| Kubuntiac | Yeah, she's pretty cool. | 11:46 |
| johd | and out of nothing, with just one device, things changed | 11:46 |
| johd | at least here | 11:46 |
| johd | in Austria | 11:46 |
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| sivang | Kubuntiac: but from some surveys I did, people think and act as if iPhone is the only sane answer for a smartphone. | 11:46 |
| vlj | what I mean is : WP7 is a well know brand. It will have flagship device | 11:46 |
| sivang | vlj: but it will run Windows no? :) | 11:47 |
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| vlj | go on the street an ask anybody if they know Meego | 11:47 |
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| Kubuntiac | sivang - Yeah, my mother calls all smartphones "iphones". Says she doesn't know what you call other phones :( | 11:47 |
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| sivang | Kubuntiac: we need to market a change for that, yes | 11:47 |
| sivang | Kubuntiac: as the MeeGo/N900 devices are not phones, they are something beyond. | 11:47 |
| vlj | if Nokia delays too much the release of a Meego flagship it may become an issue | 11:47 |
| Kubuntiac | sivang: True. I suspect that will be easier when we have a product shipping. | 11:47 |
| kyb3R | iPhone reminds me about the instructions howto hold the phone :) | 11:48 |
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| sivang | Kubuntiac: but it must be this time released not for the hobbyest alone, but polished and top notch for everyone. | 11:48 |
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| Kubuntiac | My inlaws just went out and bought 3 of the ****'d things. (iPhones) I'm surrounded. Thank $DIETY for my sister. :) | 11:49 |
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| vlj | I would find it awesome if Nokia allowed people to install Meego on N8 | 11:49 |
| Kubuntiac | sivang: Absolutely. | 11:49 |
| sivang | vlj: I posted a thread to the ML about this sometime ago, of OS choice | 11:49 |
| sivang | vlj: I also think it'd be great to be able to do something like this. | 11:49 |
| vlj | yup | 11:50 |
| vlj | sadly Nokia never allowed people to root their device | 11:50 |
| psycho_oreos | such a conceited thought | 11:50 |
| sivang | vlj: well, they have with the N900, the first of all vendors I think | 11:51 |
| vlj | ok so I correct my sentence | 11:51 |
| vlj | sadly Nokia never allowed people to root their Symbian device ;) | 11:51 |
| sivang | hehe | 11:52 |
| psycho_oreos | nexus one is the _only_ android device that I know of that does allow rooting of device | 11:52 |
| SwedeMike | vlj: but they made it fairly easy to sign code so it wasn't really necessary? | 11:52 |
| psycho_oreos | apart from n900 | 11:52 |
| psycho_oreos | easy rooting | 11:52 |
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| vlj | but you can virtually root any android device with hack | 11:53 |
| psycho_oreos | keyword: hack | 11:53 |
| kyb3R | :) | 11:53 |
| vlj | yup | 11:53 |
| vlj | there is no hack for symbian device | 11:53 |
| psycho_oreos | there are | 11:53 |
| vlj | and you can put, let's say, android on them ? | 11:53 |
| vlj | or Meego ? | 11:54 |
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| fabiomssilva | hi all :) | 11:54 |
| psycho_oreos | no because nokia refuses to freely hand out specifications of their other phones much like the rest of the other phone manufacturers | 11:54 |
| psycho_oreos | but that's a different kind of hack, that's installing another OS.. you can jailbreak shitian | 11:54 |
| Stskeeps | um.. | 11:54 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 11:54 |
| vlj | well...you can install debian on Android phone | 11:55 |
| psycho_oreos | in chroot? | 11:55 |
| vlj | you cannot install debian on Symbian phone | 11:55 |
| vlj | no for real | 11:55 |
| vlj | they did it for nexus one | 11:55 |
| psycho_oreos | which android? nexus? | 11:55 |
| psycho_oreos | lol | 11:55 |
| TermanaDesire | Vlj. Only if you have root access on the phone | 11:55 |
| vlj | yup | 11:55 |
| psycho_oreos | ok that falls into my exception category, so I've got that covered already | 11:56 |
| vlj | but on Symbian phone this is not doable, even with a hack | 11:56 |
| TermanaDesire | Which again, you need to hack to get | 11:56 |
| psycho_oreos | much like you can also install moebian on n900 or nitdroid or meego if you dared | 11:56 |
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| fabiomssilva | my guess is: if do not mess up with the boot loader. You can always go back :) | 11:57 |
| TermanaDesire | Psycho - other android phones can run debian, natively, as long as you have root access | 11:57 |
| fabiomssilva | and yeah ! I would like to see meego on the N8 platform | 11:57 |
| toggles_1 | anyone know how to shutdown meego gracefully on the n900? | 11:57 |
| TermanaDesire | Besides the nexus one that is | 11:58 |
| fabiomssilva | :) take out the battery ^^ | 11:58 |
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| psycho_oreos | TermanaDesire, apart from the fact that its not as easy to jailbreak android | 11:58 |
| toggles_1 | fabiomssilva: gracefully ;-) | 11:58 |
| TermanaDesire | Toggles - battery pull is the only way | 11:58 |
| toggles_1 | Cheers | 11:58 |
| psycho_oreos | though its still better than shitian, that OS runs on almost anything with puny amounts of RAM, etc | 11:59 |
| X-Fade | toggles_1: ssh in and run shutdown? :) | 11:59 |
| vlj | it would be nice to be able to hack Symbian so that you can, for instance, install debian on it | 11:59 |
| vlj | then you can virtually install any os you want...like Meego | 12:00 |
| X-Fade | Signed firmware, forget it. | 12:00 |
| psycho_oreos | you can install winders if you like, in wine environment | 12:00 |
| vlj | I know | 12:00 |
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| TermanaDesire | Psycho - well actually, it was 1 click for this desire. But I rather have it like my n900 - no hacks needed | 12:00 |
| vlj | Symbian phone are tied to Symbian | 12:01 |
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| psycho_oreos | TermanaDesire, meh some androids I've read are harder to break, there was that motorola one I think it was called droid x was reported to have a fuse which will split if jailbroken lol | 12:02 |
| crysaz | Qt for symbian3 is big plus, though | 12:02 |
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| fabiomssilva | lol :) Motorola Droid and N900 are the same HW platform :P | 12:03 |
| vlj | crysaz: but it's nothing in comparaison to the future qt for Meego | 12:03 |
| psycho_oreos | though I really don't know and don't care :) android still lacks the things that I desire apart from it running linux kernel | 12:03 |
| vlj | if you can install debian on N8 you can install Meego | 12:03 |
| crysaz | vlj: that's what i feared. | 12:03 |
| TermanaDesire | Psycho - yep. Some of them are a pain. Motorola phones are generally bad in this department. | 12:03 |
| fabiomssilva | psycho_oreos: like ? | 12:04 |
| TermanaDesire | Fabio. - like gnu | 12:04 |
| * crysaz following engadgets live coverage from nokia world | 12:04 | |
| fabiomssilva | ^^ | 12:04 |
| psycho_oreos | fabiomssilva, complete freedom to do whatever you like without having to jailbreaking it.. raw hardware level access, access to gnu tools | 12:04 |
| TermanaDesire | Damn it I'm typing blindly on this post | 12:04 |
| TermanaDesire | Pos * | 12:04 |
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| psycho_oreos | I don't like things that I pay for that plays games with me, been there done that with symbian on me n95-1.. no more | 12:06 |
| fabiomssilva | oreos: this kind of freedom bring a lot of entropy to the enviroment :) Mobile operators do not like entropy ;) | 12:06 |
| psycho_oreos | fabiomssilva, quite untrue if n900 were retailed at some retailers | 12:06 |
| fabiomssilva | But still I do not see any reason way I can not buy one ... ok .. aava can be the exception :) | 12:06 |
| psycho_oreos | the only freedom that n900 lacked was cellular/mobile stuff which is proprietary for some obscure reason | 12:07 |
| psycho_oreos | aava? | 12:07 |
| Stskeeps | psycho_oreos: not anymore | 12:07 |
| Stskeeps | psycho_oreos: i made a phonecall on a completely open stack the other week | 12:07 |
| vlj | psycho_oreos: the 2000$ dev phone | 12:07 |
| TermanaDesire | Here in Australia we have operators selling the n900 | 12:07 |
| psycho_oreos | Stskeeps, on n900? interesting, when will it be publicly available? | 12:07 |
| psycho_oreos | vlj, and that is? lol | 12:07 |
| TermanaDesire | Its also rather popular here from what I've seen | 12:08 |
| fabiomssilva | if finland you have N900 for sale :) | 12:08 |
| Stskeeps | psycho_oreos: wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Features/CallAudio | 12:08 |
| psycho_oreos | TermanaDesire, yeh I got mine on contract, so its not like they won't sell phones that have bit more flexibility compared to others | 12:08 |
| vlj | psycho_oreos: http://www.aavamobile.com/downloads.php | 12:08 |
| Stskeeps | psycho_oreos: we're waiting to integrate it atm | 12:08 |
| psycho_oreos | Stskeeps, ahh dang | 12:08 |
| vlj | and it costs (really) 2000 $ | 12:08 |
| psycho_oreos | vlj, and powered by android... lol | 12:09 |
| vlj | no | 12:09 |
| fabiomssilva | I have asked for a quote ..... and I did not get any reply from them :( .. | 12:09 |
| vlj | I think it is powered by nothing when you buy it | 12:09 |
| Stskeeps | it boots from a microsd | 12:09 |
| vlj | you need to install the OS first | 12:09 |
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| fabiomssilva | powered by SDK ;) | 12:10 |
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| vlj | (this is not a phone for the average consumer ) | 12:10 |
| psycho_oreos | vlj, and its really open eh the company.. click on specifications page and nothing in detail about the chipsets used apart from the fact that its powered by intel | 12:10 |
| fabiomssilva | all the specs are for the average consumer :) | 12:10 |
| fabiomssilva | maybe onlu the price is not :) | 12:11 |
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| vlj | and the fact that you need to install your os before using it ;) | 12:11 |
| timoph | yep. says "not FCC approved" and "Not type approved" under the battery.. | 12:11 |
| TermanaDesire | The savage is not a consumer device | 12:11 |
| TermanaDesire | Aava * | 12:11 |
| psycho_oreos | in other words it'll have broadcrap bluetooth and intel wireless? not really open there | 12:11 |
| vlj | psycho_oreos: it is moorestown powered, specs for moorestown are publicy know | 12:11 |
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| psycho_oreos | vlj, I have read that intel did acquire some cellular chipset company, but even at that, where's the bluetooth connectivity? is that also provided on the very same cpu? | 12:12 |
| vlj | i don't know | 12:13 |
| vlj | I'm not interested by aava phone :p | 12:13 |
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| fabiomssilva | I think intel is going to get in on the phone chips soon ... with SoC (System on a Chip) stuff | 12:13 |
| psycho_oreos | despite pointing it out, so much for the hype | 12:13 |
| psycho_oreos | they are | 12:13 |
| fabiomssilva | vlj: I am .. I want to try it. ! | 12:14 |
| johnx | it's funny to see them circling back this way after buying and selling off their ARM-related IP | 12:14 |
| vlj | it's not that funny...they smell money and they want to push their x86 solution to phones | 12:14 |
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| johnx | vlj: well they bought ARM IP, the made some ARM chips, they decided they wanted out of the game, then waited a couple years for others to dominate the market and now they want back in | 12:15 |
| psycho_oreos | they probably hated the idea of cross compiling, now that marvell may reap the benefit of strongARM | 12:16 |
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| vlj | because they trying to make x86 dominate ARM | 12:16 |
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| johnx | though at the same time as they were doing the ARM thing they were trying to make Itanium dominate X86 :) | 12:17 |
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| vlj | yep ;) | 12:17 |
| fabiomssilva | competition... always good !!! :) | 12:18 |
| psycho_oreos | lol itanium | 12:18 |
| johnx | psycho_oreos: my little marvell kirkwood-based NAS would actually make a decent little build box for native compiles, coincidentally | 12:18 |
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| psycho_oreos | johnx, I'm not doubting the power of native compiling on a ARM core itself, there's some n900 users who do native compiling on their own devices as well but some things intel does makes you wonder doesn't it? | 12:19 |
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| johnx | psycho_oreos: yeah. it seems like they fall asleep on the job, then wake up and work their butts off for a couple years to make up for it | 12:21 |
| psycho_oreos | johnx, that's even worse excuse then what I had :) | 12:21 |
| psycho_oreos | but I'm sure in either ways they're desperate to push x86 wherever they think it can go | 12:22 |
| johnx | but it's true! They totally missed the boat when AMD had the Athlon and all Intel had was the dead-end P4 arch. But they caught up with the Core series. They were pushing Itanium when AMD had X86-64, but they caught up there too. Now ARM is way out ahead in the mobile space. I'm half expecting them to suddenly pull a totally power-sipping X86 chip out of, ahem, thin air any day now | 12:24 |
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| johnx | but the longer they wait, the more ARM is cemented in the market place | 12:24 |
| * johnx sleeps now | 12:25 | |
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| vlj | johnx: even if they were not on par with amd performancewise at the P4 time, they still sold more chipsets than amd. | 12:31 |
| vlj | and it's not even sure that their current processor is more powerfull than their amd counterpart | 12:32 |
| vlj | they are...just on windows | 12:32 |
| vlj | on linux amd processors get more performance | 12:32 |
| sivang | it seems to be faster, yes, not sure about precise measrument | 12:33 |
| sivang | amd is more close to RISC than x86 right? | 12:33 |
| vlj | well x86 is x86 | 12:34 |
| sivang | I mean, x86 has some sort of abstraction layer on top of it. | 12:34 |
| vlj | no idea | 12:34 |
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| jacekowski | sort of | 12:35 |
| jacekowski | it's part of pipeline | 12:36 |
| kirma | none of the CPUs designed on this decade have had much to do with x86 ISA on their internal execution units | 12:36 |
| vlj | what I mean is that Intel has a long relationship with microsoft, and has some unfair practice (biaised compilation) in their history | 12:36 |
| jacekowski | frontend takes x86 instructions | 12:36 |
| jacekowski | and then translates them, rearanges, caches | 12:36 |
| vlj | on the other side, amd has put lot of effort in improving gcc for their processor | 12:37 |
| kirma | jacekowski: yes, and in general, program-view semantics are maintained. but not much else for a long time... | 12:37 |
| vlj | intel put less effort into gcc | 12:37 |
| jacekowski | well, intell have their own icc | 12:37 |
| jacekowski | intel* | 12:37 |
| vlj | yep | 12:37 |
| TermanaDesire | Who actually uses it though | 12:37 |
| jacekowski | i do | 12:37 |
| TermanaDesire | :p | 12:37 |
| jacekowski | it's much better than gcc | 12:38 |
| jacekowski | execution units in cpu are not risc | 12:38 |
| vlj | the power of intel is in its partnership, its software collection, things like that | 12:38 |
| jacekowski | it's still x86 | 12:38 |
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| vlj | so performance measurement are quite biaised | 12:39 |
| vlj | I don't mean that intel processor are not as good as amd one | 12:43 |
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| vlj | I just say that it is difficult to stat objectivly about the superiority of a brand on another one | 12:44 |
| vlj | and that Intel is still the king on x86 market | 12:44 |
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| fabiomssilva | vlj: long long long long time ago. To make a AMD uP work properly was a pain ! I still have that trauma :) (K7 ages...) | 12:48 |
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| psycho_oreos | K7, heh nostalgia | 12:51 |
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| fabiomssilva | pain ? :) | 12:51 |
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| cvandonderen-off | hi | 12:52 |
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| cvandonderen-off | I am looking for the sources for the package libsocialweb-qt | 12:53 |
| cvandonderen-off | are those public somewhere? | 12:53 |
| fabiomssilva | 'have you try here : http://qt.gitorious.org/ | 12:54 |
| fabiomssilva | ? | 12:54 |
| fabiomssilva | it is here: http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-middleware/libsocialweb | 12:54 |
| cvandonderen-off | fabiomssilva: both not | 12:56 |
| fabiomssilva | libsocialweb-qt | 12:56 |
| fabiomssilva | opsss.. wrong window | 12:57 |
| fabiomssilva | ;) | 12:57 |
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| fabiomssilva | ok :) should be that one: http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/trunk/daily/core/repos/source/ | 13:01 |
| fabiomssilva | you have the source RPM there | 13:02 |
| fabiomssilva | :) | 13:02 |
| cvandonderen-off | fabiomssilva: thank you :-) | 13:02 |
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| slaine | Howdy folks | 13:09 |
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| slaine | was at IBS yesterday, saw meego in a few places | 13:09 |
| slaine | some places I'm sure it shouldn't have been, but how and ever | 13:09 |
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| smoku | slaine, ex? | 13:15 |
| slaine | smoku: sorry, IBC, not ibs | 13:16 |
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| smoku | slaine, :) an EXample of where it shouldn't have been? :) | 13:18 |
| slaine | ah, thought you'd typo'd 'eh' | 13:19 |
| smoku | sorry for being lazy ;-) | 13:19 |
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| slaine | just one or two small booths for nondescript companies with android and meego logo's about the place but nothing really to show | 13:20 |
| slaine | The amino booth was good, had a good chat with one of the guys there about the MeeGo OTT box they're doing | 13:21 |
| Stskeeps | is it hackable? | 13:21 |
| slaine | Not sure | 13:21 |
| slaine | There's definitely some behind the scenes stuff happening there | 13:21 |
| Stskeeps | most likely | 13:21 |
| slaine | It's one of the CE Atom's | 13:21 |
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| slaine | 1080p decoding etc. | 13:22 |
| Stskeeps | i think for the not-yet-in-meego UX'es and verticals, we will see a shitload of political stuff.. | 13:22 |
| slaine | Actually the UI on that amino is open | 13:22 |
| Stskeeps | scary | 13:22 |
| vimuurin_ | ls | 13:22 |
| slaine | The drivers though is what I'd wonder about | 13:22 |
| slaine | You'll be surprised when I tell you it's a skinned version of xbmc | 13:23 |
| Stskeeps | not surprised | 13:23 |
| slaine | I was | 13:23 |
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| slaine | It's still very much an early proof of concept device | 13:23 |
| slaine | doesn't do triple play, which is the amino bread and butter | 13:24 |
| Stskeeps | it is actually the best kind of device | 13:24 |
| Stskeeps | easy to productize :P | 13:24 |
| Stskeeps | take meego | 13:24 |
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| slaine | nod | 13:24 |
| Stskeeps | drop whatever interface on | 13:24 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 13:24 |
| slaine | that's the goal of meego though, which is great | 13:24 |
| lcuk | hopefully though the differentiation between each manufacturer wont make them compete amongst themselves instead of growing a strong combined presence | 13:25 |
| lcuk | its no good having a flock of headless chickens | 13:26 |
| slaine | wow | 13:26 |
| TermanaDesire | I hate to tell you, but this is manufacturers were talking about | 13:26 |
| slaine | I see Boxee dropped the tegra2 for the same intel CPU/GPU | 13:26 |
| TermanaDesire | Meaning your getting headless chickens weather you want them or not | 13:27 |
| slaine | the intel atom CD4100 SoC | 13:27 |
| slaine | That's also the processor powering the new google tv platform | 13:27 |
| lcuk | TermanaDesire, not at all, its entirely possible for companies to work together to produce something greater than the sum of parts | 13:27 |
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| lcuk | TermanaDesire, make the meego experience so fucking good that no real differentiation is needed between manufacturers | 13:29 |
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| lcuk | that the standard stack is so hot everyone wants it on their hardware | 13:30 |
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| * Myrtti comes back from the coffee run | 13:32 | |
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| Myrtti | tea, coffee anyone? | 13:32 |
| lcuk | please | 13:32 |
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| TermanaDesire | Lcuk - the thing is manufactures want to be different. Otherwise why buy one thing over the other | 13:33 |
| fabiomssilva | faster...better... bigger ... sexy.... etc :) | 13:33 |
| lcuk | buy it because its got a faster cpu or a brighter screen or because the telsupport is in the home country or whatever fudging thing PC companies use | 13:33 |
| lcuk | but consumers NEED to know that if an app is released for meego it will work on their meego device | 13:34 |
| fabiomssilva | but yeah you can see on the Android. Manufacturers always want to add a bit of their own stuff ...... | 13:34 |
| fabiomssilva | that is what have made iPhone the king of the smart phones on this days .... | 13:35 |
| lcuk | how many times do you buy a windows pc based on the differentiation? | 13:35 |
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| TermanaDesire | Differing experiences shouldn't change the application compatibility | 13:35 |
| Myrtti | here's a thought | 13:36 |
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| Myrtti | put your shoes on, jacket on, and go outside and smell the fresh air. | 13:36 |
| Myrtti | take a couple of deep breathes and come back in | 13:36 |
| lcuk | i did yesterday Myrtti :) i was walking around the Manchester library smelling real books and talking with real people | 13:36 |
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| lcuk | and I am just getting ready to do same | 13:37 |
| slaine | lcuk, you're living in the past man | 13:37 |
| slaine | lol | 13:37 |
| TermanaDesire | Lol | 13:37 |
| lcuk | slaine, I have the future very firmly in my sights | 13:37 |
| TermanaDesire | Stop staring at your graave | 13:39 |
| TermanaDesire | Grave* | 13:39 |
| slaine | I tell you what guys. I'm REALLY struggling with my phone at the hospital. The last two years of always connected commuting has changed me | 13:39 |
| lcuk | slaine, I am surprised you can use a computer at all | 13:40 |
| Myrtti | I find this bickering within the community a bit disheartening. Why do people have a need to argue instead of concentrating on being productive | 13:40 |
| lcuk | especially a wireless mobile | 13:40 |
| Myrtti | lcuk: I could've taken and in fact did take my laptop to the hospital last year for my gallbladder operation | 13:40 |
| Myrtti | the hospitals encourage it, in fact, thought they state they can't be held responsible if your gear gets lost or stolen | 13:41 |
| Myrtti | s/thought/though/ | 13:41 |
| infobot | Myrtti meant: the hospitals encourage it, in fact, though they state they can't be held responsible if your gear gets lost or stolen | 13:41 |
| lcuk | :) Myrtti I don't bicker | 13:41 |
| lcuk | and I thought wireless stuff intefered with the life saving "bing" machines? | 13:42 |
| Myrtti | lcuk: they're banned in ICU, that's about it. | 13:42 |
| siji | Hey Friends | 13:42 |
| slaine | lcuk, yeah, laying tarmac driveways and carrying my sheleigly and potatoes usually keep me occupied. | 13:42 |
| siji | Joke of the day, | 13:42 |
| siji | Am new in this list | 13:42 |
| Myrtti | I'd like to see the patient in ICU that wants to use their laptop and mobile phone - instead of getting better and out of ICU | 13:43 |
| siji | and i came here by thinking that it's the IRC for meego (An Operating System for Mobile Phones By Intel) | 13:43 |
| siji | :) | 13:43 |
| Myrtti | by Intel? | 13:43 |
| siji | yes | 13:43 |
| Stskeeps | siji: not by intel, by the meego project :) | 13:43 |
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| Stskeeps | it includes intel, nokia and many other contributors | 13:43 |
| slaine | Ultimately I'm still doing the same thing 90% of the time, that is listening to music while reading a book. But not being able to casually glance at mail/rss/twitter etc. is taking some getting used to | 13:44 |
| siji | yes right | 13:44 |
| Myrtti | siji: so where is the joke? | 13:44 |
| siji | Myrtti, and after listening the current discussion I thought i am in Wrong | 13:45 |
| siji | Something related to Hospital or smthing :) | 13:45 |
| TermanaDesire | Its called being a community | 13:45 |
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| TermanaDesire | We don't just talk about meego | 13:46 |
| siji | TermanaDesire, yes i know | 13:46 |
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| siji | but for a while i got confused | 13:46 |
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| Myrtti | "A cloud of helium walks into a bar. The Bartender says: We don't serve noble gases here. The helium doesn't react." | 13:47 |
| mairas | hey, is there a package browsing interface for MeeGo? a la packages.debian.org? | 13:47 |
| Robot101 | Myrtti: groan :P | 13:47 |
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| Myrtti | Robot101: it was a joke, albeit a bad one | 13:48 |
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| Myrtti | Robot101: why haven't you guys said anything about the Cambs Local Meego thing? | 13:49 |
| Myrtti | Robot101: or you, personally? :-> http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=1377 | 13:49 |
| Robot101 | because we suck | 13:49 |
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| Myrtti | "you are going to comment and say you'll participate." | 13:49 |
| * Myrtti wiggles her fingers | 13:50 | |
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| Myrtti | I suck at Derren Brown impressions | 13:50 |
| Robot101 | I think some of the guys have been worried, we've been accidentally trapped at parties by well-meaning but ultimately misinformed or very boring community members :P | 13:51 |
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| Myrtti | those parties clearly haven't been attended by yours truly | 13:52 |
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| Robot101 | perhaps, but these people can get you anywhere once they see your N900 :) | 13:52 |
| Robot101 | wjt got into an argument with someone over whether tp-haze was evidence of the amazing power of the maemo community, or whether it was, in fact, him who wrote it not for maemo and someone else at collabora who packaged it for maemo on their work time | 13:54 |
| slaine | Was any progress made on the generic x86 build ? | 13:54 |
| Myrtti | it's a good thing I don't have one then... | 13:54 |
| Robot101 | its those kind of things that make me want to remain a hermit :) | 13:54 |
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| Myrtti | well, good to know the Fens still have their hermits. Clearly all the geeks around here just sit in their dark caves alone staring the blue light of their screens. | 13:57 |
| Robot101 | I'm in bed, not a cave, and its quite light :) | 13:57 |
| Robot101 | I might go in to town for pizza at the cow now however | 13:58 |
| smoku | Myrtti, green light ;-) | 13:58 |
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| sivang | what are Hermits? | 14:17 |
| sivang | and Fens? | 14:17 |
| aladds | http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Fenlander | 14:18 |
| johd | Myrtti, I have just checked | 14:20 |
| sivang | what is this? | 14:20 |
| johd | the light looks more white than blue | 14:20 |
| sivang | unmoderated wikipedia? | 14:20 |
| johd | but maybe that's because I haven't seen the sun in a while :รผ | 14:21 |
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| Kubuntiac | sivang: More like a wikipedia spoof | 14:26 |
| Kubuntiac | Kind of "stand-up wikipedia" | 14:26 |
| Bostik | collective satire | 14:26 |
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| Myrtti | ROFL @ Uncyclopedia | 14:33 |
| Myrtti | gotta love em | 14:33 |
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| Myrtti | especially since there's even something about me in the Finnish one. | 14:34 |
| Myrtti | aw, there's no article about the Silicon Fens | 14:36 |
| Myrtti | ;___; | 14:36 |
| Myrtti | irony, the sweet taste of it. There's more people interested about MeeGo networking in *TURKU* than in Cambridgeshire area. | 14:37 |
| Myrtti | (atleast according to the forum) | 14:38 |
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| Myrtti | son, I am disappoint. | 14:40 |
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| lolloo | meego isn't released yet? | 15:37 |
| vlj | it is | 15:37 |
| lolloo | atleast fro N900? | 15:37 |
| vlj | not for N900 | 15:37 |
| lolloo | dang it | 15:37 |
| vlj | no final release at least | 15:37 |
| vlj | there is a beta however | 15:37 |
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| lolloo | wow | 15:37 |
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| Myrtti | ^___o | 15:39 |
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| sivang | I see ML threads referring to "Harmattan" What is it actually? :) | 16:16 |
| sivang | thiago_london: whats up there in Nokia World? | 16:16 |
| jacekowski | old maemo | 16:19 |
| sivang | jacekowski: it is being presented there? | 16:20 |
| jacekowski | hmm, or new one | 16:20 |
| X-Fade | Harmattan is actually the MeeGo Nokia will put on their next iteration. | 16:20 |
| X-Fade | Well, MeeGo.. hehe.. | 16:20 |
| sivang | jacekowski: ah | 16:20 |
| X-Fade | Let's call it a MeeGo aligned Maemo hybrid still running on deb. | 16:20 |
| sivang | so meego-handset are actually working on Harmattan? | 16:20 |
| sivang | err, meego-arm | 16:21 |
| sivang | X-Fade: ah cool, so debs are still applicable there | 16:21 |
| X-Fade | sivang: yes. | 16:21 |
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| sivang | so that's why OBS had been adopted to produce debs and rpms, cool | 16:24 |
| sivang | unnews is evern funnier- http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/UnNews:God_vs._godly%3F haha | 16:24 |
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| GordonS | Hey all... has anyone here had any luck getting MeeGo running in qemugl? I'm trying to follow the instructions at http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_SDK_with_QEMU but all I get after the menu is a black screen. | 16:54 |
| vlj | im back | 16:54 |
| vlj | I have Meego with netbook ux on a non sse3 supporting processor at the moment | 16:55 |
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| GordonS | or more specifically... | 16:55 |
| GordonS | if I use the "Install" menu item I get a black screen; if I use the "run" menu item, I get "mount: / not mounted already, or bad option" and nothing further | 16:56 |
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| vlj | GordonS: why not running it for real ? | 17:03 |
| GordonS | because among my host of computers, I don't presently have a single one with both a new enough processor and Intel video | 17:04 |
| vlj | if you have one with a nvidia card it may worth to try it | 17:05 |
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| vlj | Meego is netbook oriented, so an old processor would reflect how an atom can handle your applications ;) | 17:06 |
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| vlj | I currently type from Meego on an old Pentium 4 processor | 17:07 |
| vlj | pre Prescott era | 17:07 |
| GordonS | vlj: I have lots of stuff with nVidia, and one with ATI... no worky | 17:07 |
| GordonS | and the only system I have with Intel video is a ThinkPad X30 | 17:08 |
| GordonS | which is roughly the *speed* of an Atom... because it's a P-III | 17:08 |
| GordonS | :) | 17:08 |
| lbt | GordonS: bloody irritating isn't it ;) | 17:08 |
| GordonS | sorry, that should have been "*some* with ATI" | 17:08 |
| GordonS | yah yah | 17:08 |
| vlj | GordonS: nVidia card work unofficially work with Meego | 17:08 |
| GordonS | wellll... I have gotten the netbook image (but not the handset image) to work on an nVidia system by replacing an OpenGL library | 17:09 |
| GordonS | but it is *gawdawful* slow | 17:09 |
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| GordonS | like 2 seconds to click on an icon | 17:10 |
| * CosmoHill is here and has a full tank of petrol :D | 17:10 | |
| GordonS | since it doesn't have the right driver in X, it is not accelerated | 17:10 |
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| vlj | http://wiki.meego.com/User:Vljn | 17:10 |
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| vlj | you may want to test this image : http://www.megaupload.com/?d=ZGVLD9K7 | 17:11 |
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| GordonS | well, y'see - that's the trouble | 17:11 |
| GordonS | I need to use a pretty recent image | 17:11 |
| GordonS | I need 1.0.80.recent or 10.0.90 | 17:12 |
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| vlj | why ? | 17:12 |
| vlj | for multi touch framework ? | 17:12 |
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| vlj | I did not try with newer build of meego | 17:14 |
| vlj | brb | 17:15 |
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| GordonS | vlj: because I am doing some specific development work | 17:18 |
| GordonS | how did you build that image? | 17:18 |
| GordonS | oh wait | 17:18 |
| GordonS | it even says there :) | 17:18 |
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| fcrozat | on netbook release, when doing alt-tab (or alt-right), sometime, meego is switching to vt1 | 17:38 |
| fcrozat | (it seems to appear only after suspend but I'm not 100% sure) | 17:39 |
| fcrozat | is there an opened bug for it (I haven't found any yet) | 17:39 |
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| marnanel | mic-image-creator gives me a "file not found" error when it's trying to build a bootstrap ( http://pastebin.ca/1940606 ), but it doesn't tell me what file it can't find. Does this look familiar to anyone, before I start digging further? | 17:46 |
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| kyb3R | any wiki admins around? | 17:47 |
| vlj | fcrozat: I encounter this bug as well | 17:47 |
| vlj | marnanel: please give the whole mic output | 17:48 |
| marnanel | vlj: will do | 17:48 |
| fcrozat | vlj: which meego release ? 1.0.0 or 1.0.x ? | 17:49 |
| vlj | 1.0.1 here | 17:49 |
| vlj | or 1.0.2 | 17:49 |
| vlj | or even 1.0.3 | 17:49 |
| vlj | it's stated nowhere :/ | 17:49 |
| fcrozat | ;) | 17:49 |
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| marnanel | vlj: full output is at http://pastebin.ca/1940610 | 17:51 |
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| vlj | well I have no idea so far... | 17:55 |
| vlj | if you type ps aux, is there a "[loop0]" process ? | 17:55 |
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| marnanel | vlj: no, there isn't | 18:00 |
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| vlj | so I have no idea sorry | 18:00 |
| marnanel | vlj: thanks anyway. why did you ask about the [loop0] process? | 18:01 |
| vlj | because I had an issue | 18:01 |
| vlj | I had a [loop0] and [loop1] process | 18:01 |
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| vlj | it appeared they prevented mic from creating a proper fake filesystem | 18:02 |
| marnanel | interesting | 18:02 |
| vlj | so mic was looking after a file that was not created | 18:02 |
| marnanel | do you know whether there is anywhere I can download a raw or livecd image without having to build it myself, since it appears not to be working? | 18:02 |
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| vlj | well there is the official Meego 1.0 release | 18:06 |
| vlj | if you truly wants 1.1 you can update repository from Meego 1.0 | 18:06 |
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| marnanel | that makes sense. I have a working copy of 1.0, but it's the netbook UX, not the handset UX. | 18:08 |
| vlj | err sorry you wanted handset ux ? | 18:09 |
| vlj | http://meego.com/downloads/releases/1.0.80.8/meego-handset-day1-developer-preview | 18:10 |
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| marnanel | oh, of course. I'm not sure why I was trying to build it with mic. Sorry. | 18:11 |
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| lbt | sjokkis: simply because more people here can help | 18:36 |
| sjokkis | lbt: works for me | 18:36 |
| lbt | yeah ... -dev is more about when you get the device and start hacking | 18:37 |
| lbt | initially you need to establish contact with the community | 18:37 |
| lbt | one major difference is the whole rpm side btw | 18:37 |
| lbt | so the code differences should be small but there'll be packaging | 18:38 |
| lbt | and UI will be Qt rather than Gtk | 18:38 |
| lbt | so... depends on your definition of "small" | 18:38 |
| lbt | :) | 18:38 |
| sjokkis | this isn't a GUI app | 18:38 |
| sjokkis | though we'll be interested in integrating ourselves with existing GUI apps | 18:39 |
| lbt | I know... but worth mentioning | 18:39 |
| sjokkis | true | 18:39 |
| sjokkis | you know what ZG is, right? | 18:39 |
| lbt | not really | 18:39 |
| sjokkis | zeitgeist is an event logging framework. whenever you watch a movie, listen to a song, take a call etc, we log that | 18:39 |
| sjokkis | my job is that last bit | 18:40 |
| lbt | OK ... so related to content tracker type things | 18:40 |
| sjokkis | related, but this concerns events | 18:40 |
| sjokkis | that information can be integrated in other applications, or used standalone | 18:40 |
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| lbt | yes... I guess > twitter is one kind of use | 18:41 |
| lbt | or profiling | 18:41 |
| sjokkis | for instance, along with an event we log time of day, and physical location | 18:41 |
| sjokkis | both off which are interesting if used to establish usage patterns etc | 18:41 |
| lbt | lifelogs... cool | 18:41 |
| sjokkis | pretty much | 18:42 |
| sjokkis | i think it would be very interesting to run this on meego | 18:42 |
| lbt | this sounds like the kind of thing you'd want in the 'community libraries' part of MeeGo | 18:42 |
| lbt | something other apps could build-dep on | 18:42 |
| lbt | see the huge thread on meego-dev about meego-spec | 18:43 |
| lbt | so... I can get you up on the beta meego community OBS | 18:43 |
| lbt | but devices ... talk to DawnFoster (or qgil) ... or direct to mfgs | 18:44 |
| sjokkis | that would be nice | 18:44 |
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| sjokkis | mfgs? | 18:44 |
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| lbt | manufacturers | 18:44 |
| lbt | don't hold your breath :) There was a developer program for N900s last year but there won't (AFAIK) be any MeeGo devices at the upcoming conference in Dublin | 18:45 |
| lbt | Are you going? | 18:45 |
| lbt | http://conference2010.meego.com/ | 18:45 |
| RST38h | developers, developers... | 18:46 |
| sjokkis | i wasn't planning on it, but if i'm sponsored, i don't see why not | 18:46 |
| sjokkis | i'd have to talk it over with the other guys working on this | 18:46 |
| lbt | anyone UK based? | 18:46 |
| sjokkis | the other two are germans. i'm norwegian | 18:47 |
| lbt | OK ... np .... there's a cheap device in the UK... but not worth the hassle now (it's got gfx issues) | 18:47 |
| sivang | S^3 looks cute, can't wait to get a device to play with some Qt for it... | 18:48 |
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| sjokkis | lbt: seems like my partners in crime have applied | 18:49 |
| sjokkis | so i guess i will too | 18:49 |
| lcuk | sjokkis, ZG isn't very descriptive - google tells me its a common abbreviation of a warcraft 20 man raid instance Zul'Gurub | 18:49 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | i wonder why the odd stance of no dev hardware at the show | 18:49 |
| sjokkis | zeitgeist | 18:49 |
| lbt | sjokkis: OK ... yell if you want an account on the trial OBS | 18:49 |
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| lcuk | sjokkis, and google has their own zeitgeist | 18:50 |
| lcuk | link? | 18:50 |
| * lcuk has a wonderful graffiti wall that enshrines that sort of principle | 18:50 | |
| lbt | TSCHAKeee2: blind guess by me. | 18:50 |
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| sjokkis | lcuk: http://zeitgeist-project.com/ | 18:51 |
| sjokkis | lbt: i'd like an account | 18:51 |
| lbt | TSCHAKeee2: Nokia don't seem likely to give away N900s... Intel? Dunno, maybe netbooks? | 18:51 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | N9 dev prototypes! | 18:51 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | kidding | 18:51 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | ;) | 18:51 |
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| sjokkis | lbt: they gave to the other guys on the team who requested platforms a year ago. they got theirs this summer | 18:52 |
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| lcuk | sjokkis, then how come you didnt request last year yourself? | 18:54 |
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| sjokkis | lcuk: wasn't on the team yet | 18:55 |
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| lcuk | the official public meego.com sdk revolves around the N900 which is openly available. I hope that is the device you are talking about :) but for clarities sake, I guess going back to your team leader and requesting by your official channels would be the best way :) | 18:57 |
| lbt | lcuk: actually... what *are* the official channels? | 18:58 |
| lbt | for meego hw | 18:58 |
| lcuk | idk | 18:59 |
| lcuk | but hes talking about a team | 18:59 |
| lcuk | and we arent his team | 18:59 |
| CosmoHill | hey lbt and lcuk | 18:59 |
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| lbt | o/ | 19:00 |
| theplic | \o | 19:01 |
| lcuk | \o cosmo | 19:01 |
| lbt | sjokkis: I got the feeling you were "just" on the scrounge for some HW for an OSS project which is well suited to MeeGo ? (just like me and Carsten last year with Mer ;) ) | 19:01 |
| sjokkis | yeah, this is an OSS project | 19:02 |
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| sjokkis | when the other guys requested their platforms they did it individually, but on behalf of the project | 19:02 |
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| lbt | so... cool.... lcuk, I think this is the kind of thing MeeGo community should support | 19:03 |
| sjokkis | i think lcuk overestimates how most OSS projects work if he thinks we have "official channels" | 19:03 |
| lbt | lcuk: hell, it's a bitch getting meego compatible HW ;) | 19:03 |
| lcuk | of course | 19:03 |
| lcuk | ok sjokkis what platform did your other team members request, and did they make public requests for them? | 19:04 |
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| sjokkis | they requested a phone each from the maemo team | 19:04 |
| sjokkis | they didn't say how, but it was right after last year's hackfet | 19:04 |
| sjokkis | fest* | 19:04 |
| sjokkis | i'm directing my request here since maemo and meego have merged | 19:04 |
| sjokkis | i'm basically just here to find out where i should send my request, so you don't have to dig into me | 19:05 |
| lcuk | sjokkis, you are speaking of a platform | 19:05 |
| lcuk | which is more cagey than an n900 | 19:05 |
| RST38h | sjokkis: To repeat what lbt has said, no free meego protos for developers (yet) | 19:05 |
| lbt | sjokkis: don't worry, lcuk's not doing that :) | 19:05 |
| lbt | IMHO it's a bug that we don't have a request mechanism for this kind of thing | 19:05 |
| lcuk | there is a request queue for maemo | 19:05 |
| lbt | sjokkis: meego is still very early compared to maemo | 19:06 |
| lbt | and the different structure means Nokia isn't lurking quite so close behind | 19:06 |
| RST38h | sjokkis: But you can use an N900 todevelop meego handset apps | 19:06 |
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| sjokkis | there is, as lcuk states, a request system for maemo, and that is how the other guys on the team (2 of them, to be exact) were set up with their dev platforms (or phones, if you want to be that technical) | 19:06 |
| sjokkis | RST38h: exactly. i'm here to get one | 19:06 |
| sjokkis | in so many words | 19:06 |
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| lcuk | and clarity arrives! :D | 19:07 |
| lcuk | for reference | 19:07 |
| lcuk | http://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_Developer_Device_Queue | 19:07 |
| lcuk | thats the open queue | 19:07 |
| lbt | lcuk: no, we've been discussing on meego-dev too | 19:07 |
| lcuk | lbt, you are right | 19:07 |
| lbt | I brought it here to get more people involved | 19:07 |
| lbt | sjokkis was clear and polite so I helped :) | 19:08 |
| sjokkis | yes, i'm guessing this conversation might have been a bit confusing to other people since we changed channels in the middle of it | 19:08 |
| lbt | yeah... sorry... but useful | 19:08 |
| RST38h | sjokkis: Ok. So, you want to get into device queue for N900 then | 19:09 |
| sjokkis | yes | 19:09 |
| RST38h | there is a wiki page | 19:09 |
| sjokkis | i was wondering if meego had a queue of its own | 19:09 |
| lbt | RST38h: good idea... but also we should bug Dawn.... she'll like that | 19:09 |
| lbt | sjokkis: raise a bug... seriously | 19:09 |
| RST38h | lbt: I know what Dawn will tell you | 19:09 |
| RST38h | lbt: Wanna guess? | 19:09 |
| lbt | RST38h: she loves me really :) | 19:09 |
| RST38h | lbt: Doesn't matter | 19:09 |
| RST38h | lbt: The standard answer is that you get an atom-based netbook and develop on it. | 19:10 |
| lbt | yes, of course | 19:10 |
| RST38h | case closed | 19:10 |
| lcuk | NOT USEFUL FOR HANDSET | 19:10 |
| lcuk | -caps | 19:10 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Who cares? It is a Meego! | 19:10 |
| lbt | but MeeGo community may/should have funds to support OSS projects too | 19:10 |
| lcuk | :) | 19:10 |
| * RST38h smiles sadistically | 19:10 | |
| lbt | so I'm hoping Intel will bring a few hundred netbooks to Dublin.... | 19:11 |
| sjokkis | i dualboot meego on a eee, but i'm not really interested in this unless i can make it work on handsets as well | 19:11 |
| RST38h | Besides you can probably compile and run Meego handset apps on it, as long as Qt mobile framework compiles | 19:11 |
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| RST38h | lbt: Intel does not produce netbooks | 19:12 |
| lbt | RST38h: I bet it can get them cheap | 19:12 |
| lbt | cf usb-sticks | 19:12 |
| lbt | which are given away as corporate candy | 19:12 |
| RST38h | lbt:probably not much cheaper than you can get them online | 19:12 |
| sjokkis | we already have zeitgeist working on the meego netbook version | 19:12 |
| sjokkis | so for me the next step is handsets | 19:12 |
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| lbt | sjokkis: given it's a non-gui app then what are you expecting to need from a handset? | 19:20 |
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| sjokkis | lbt: we need to make sure it works with incoming and outgoing phone calls, something we won't be able to do with a netbook, and once the handset version gets a gui we'll be interested in integrating zeitgeist with various gui applications | 19:21 |
| lbt | *nod* | 19:22 |
| sjokkis | lbt: we might also demo in dublin | 19:23 |
| sjokkis | will the handset version (with a gui) be available by then? | 19:24 |
| lbt | it's already out | 19:27 |
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| sjokkis | lbt: i didn't know that. i thought we only had a console version | 19:28 |
| sjokkis | well, good news, everyone! | 19:28 |
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| ml-remote | console version of what? | 19:29 |
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| sjokkis | didn't the handset version previously boot to a coonsole? | 19:29 |
| sjokkis | or terminal, if you prefer | 19:29 |
| ml-remote | ahh | 19:29 |
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| lcuk | yes | 19:30 |
| ml-remote | yeah, that was back in May I believe | 19:30 |
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| Mat_Matan | Mario has 25 years! Viva la Nintendo! :D | 19:37 |
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| theplic | damn plumbers. | 19:38 |
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| ml-remote | sooo totally not interested in AppUp | 19:45 |
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| npm | is this the right irc channel for http://meegozone.com/developer-day-2010-live-streaming | 20:14 |
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| ml-remote | sure thing | 20:18 |
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| npm | excellent. | 20:19 |
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| npm | question: what if you have some weirdo device that's not one or the other category... can you still claim meego compliance if it's a handset, but has no cellphone componnents, just networking? | 20:20 |
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| ml-remote | might want to restate that question | 20:21 |
| DawnFoster | We're live streaming the MeeGo Developer Day event for anyone who is interested in watching: http://meegozone.com/developer-day-2010-live-streaming/ | 20:21 |
| ml-remote | I'd watch the stream but that would be recursive :) | 20:22 |
| npm | can one still claim meego complaince if one's device is neither Netbook, Handset or other typical platforms that have been defined? | 20:22 |
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| npm | Q: Why is pulseaudio present? And how come phonon isn't being used? | 20:23 |
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| berndhs | npm: you can't record with phonon | 20:24 |
| npm | sure you can | 20:24 |
| npm | there's multiple different capture sources that i can select | 20:24 |
| berndhs | npm: not in Qt :) | 20:25 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | sometimes you people ask the stupidest questions | 20:25 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | did it not occur to you, that this stack is assembled from a lot of pre-existing stuff? | 20:25 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | and that THAT is maybe why pulseaudio is being used? | 20:25 |
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| DawnFoster | let's be nice, people :) | 20:26 |
| berndhs | right, pulseaudio is present because something uses pulseaudio | 20:26 |
| ml-remote | from what I'm reading, isn't phonon just the Qt API, but pulseaudio is the mixer for the OS? | 20:26 |
| npm | (you can also capture w/o pulseaudio by using ALSA dmix/dnoop) | 20:26 |
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| npm | a lot of existing stuff, where pulseaudio causes nothing but trouble, and is unecessary on a netbook or handheld. ALSA can do it all | 20:26 |
| npm | ) | 20:26 |
| berndhs | submit a bug to remote pulseaudio :) | 20:27 |
| npm | pulseaudio is present because gnome is dependent on it | 20:27 |
| ml-remote | there must be a lot of Android/iPhone developers here | 20:27 |
| npm | however, kde isn't, for example | 20:27 |
| berndhs | s/remote/remove/ | 20:27 |
| infobot | berndhs meant: submit a bug to remove pulseaudio :) | 20:27 |
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| Kray | hurr durr, pulseaudio :d | 20:28 |
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| berndhs | speaking about pulseaudio, has anyone else tried to record sound with Qt ? | 20:29 |
| npm | if you remove pulseaudio, all gnome apps will pause with an error gnome-screenshot -i> socket(): Address family not supported by protocol | 20:30 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | wth is wrong with pulseaudio? it allowed my team (LinuxMCE) to seamlessly integrate bluetooth devices into our smarthome solution. | 20:30 |
| npm | i have, it works fine. i installed google talk plugin on my son's netbook | 20:30 |
| npm | i can now talk to him at school :-) | 20:30 |
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| berndhs | google talk plugin uses Qt ? | 20:31 |
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| npm | no. it uses gnome | 20:31 |
| berndhs | ok , i thought it was about my question | 20:31 |
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| npm | "It's basically fedora 13 with a totally incompatible set of rpms and namig convention that doesn't allow you to use rpmfusion" | 20:33 |
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| * npm installed music related packages from http://ccrma.stanford.edu/planetccrma/software/ on son's netbook | 20:34 | |
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| npm | TSCHAKeee2: forgot the bluetooth angle to pulseaudio although again, it's nothing that couldn't be handled entirely within ALSA using, e.g. bluez-alsa.i686 installed from fedora 13 repo | 20:39 |
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| Kray | I prefer OSS4 | 20:39 |
| npm | pulseaudio is basically a good way to waste batteries | 20:39 |
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| TSCHAKeee2 | npm: hehheheh | 20:39 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | yeah um | 20:39 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | okay | 20:39 |
| julian_lp | hello everybody | 20:40 |
| berndhs | ah that's all boring, code on the bare device, forget alsa, dont need drivers | 20:40 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | npm: i would have to write a long of plumbing to do it with ALSA alone. | 20:40 |
| npm | yep. and you do it once and you're done. | 20:40 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | sigh | 20:40 |
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| TSCHAKeee2 | I sometimes wonder why i've stuck around in the free software community for 20+ years | 20:41 |
| npm | and then package it all up as /usr/share/alsa/cards/ and make it available for all | 20:41 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | comments like that make me want to bash my head into cinder blocks for hours | 20:41 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | it's a lot more productive | 20:41 |
| npm | the thing is the plumbing you have to write doesn't cancel out the batteries being wasted at runtime to allow that flexibility | 20:41 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | you guys never learn | 20:41 |
| Kray | the main problem is amount of different audio system solutions | 20:41 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | ever | 20:41 |
| npm | it's like do you want a compiler or an interpreter? | 20:41 |
| Kray | we would need one de facto system superior to other solutions | 20:42 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | I really wonder | 20:42 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | how many of you | 20:42 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | seriously | 20:42 |
| npm | yes, it's called jack | 20:42 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | how many of you have had to program large systems to put bread on the table? | 20:42 |
| npm | but it's not oriented to netbooks or handhelds | 20:42 |
| * TSCHAKeee2 just walks away before he gets pissed off. | 20:42 | |
| julian_lp | what do you think on start programming using meeGo as plattform? | 20:43 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | Linux has several audio layers, each mutually incompatible, due to differing goals | 20:43 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | not to mention the ALSA driver people seem flat intent on refusing to standardize on even the simplest things | 20:43 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | like | 20:43 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | MIXER PORT NAMES | 20:43 |
| npm | standardize mixer ports on this: http://mudita24.googlecode.com | 20:44 |
| julian_lp | I mean, I've just a couple hours a day to learn and I doubt between Android or meego | 20:44 |
| Kray | well, actually every modern audio layer provides general means for audio playback, at least | 20:44 |
| Kray | this is called oss emulation | 20:44 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | forcing guys using the system to write the most idiotic plumbing imaginable to accomodate for many different sound cards, because hey, I never know if someone's going to use an MCP71 | 20:44 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | or a CMI8738 | 20:44 |
| berndhs | julian_lp: as your first platform to learn programming ? | 20:44 |
| Kray | and practically every software supports using it at least as a fallback | 20:44 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | and you guys just throwing answers out there | 20:45 |
| julian_lp | berndhs: actually I'm delphi and php programmer | 20:45 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | don't understand the subtle realities which prohibit something like that | 20:45 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | so please | 20:45 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | just shut up | 20:45 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | and go learn something | 20:45 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | kids, | 20:45 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | ... | 20:45 |
| npm | TSCHAKeee2: you don't need toknow that. you need alsa properrly configured w/ /usr/share/alsa populated w/ info on your card | 20:45 |
| npm | and bindings to the standard names like default, front, etc | 20:45 |
| julian_lp | I want to be able to program for mobile devices as well... | 20:45 |
| DawnFoster | TSCHAKeee2: let's be nice, please http://wiki.meego.com/IRC_guidelines | 20:46 |
| berndhs | julian_lp: better than using android, at least meego is a comlete linux system | 20:46 |
| npm | see i was just getting ahead of the slides | 20:46 |
| Kray | development on Android is done using Java | 20:46 |
| Kray | that's all I need to know about it | 20:46 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | npm: ever had to build a consumer audio device on top of ALSA? .. that has analogue, SPDIF, and HDMI outputs? | 20:46 |
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| julian_lp | And what do you think will be the availavility of devices compared to android ones | 20:46 |
| npm | have you ever used a directv dvr? | 20:47 |
| npm | or a verifone credit card verification box? | 20:47 |
| berndhs | java is a terrible choice for embedded systems | 20:47 |
| julian_lp | I live in Argentina, where we dont have yet any android device functioning yet | 20:47 |
| npm | likes Vala a LOT | 20:47 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | npm: our situation is worse, because people take the software and put it on god knows everything... I just had to commit a ton of plumbing to detect multiple IEC958 ports, and turn them on and off, because every damned card that has HDMI out therei s different. | 20:48 |
| berndhs | meego runs on ordinary computers, just need the right CPU type | 20:48 |
| npm | and my vala package is almost ported to meego : http://spekle.googlecode.com | 20:48 |
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| julian_lp | the key thing here is a marketing one rather than a tech one I guess. | 20:49 |
| npm | TSCHAKeee2: i agree there needs to be something on top of alsa, but it might not need be pulseaudio. | 20:49 |
| julian_lp | will Nokia / Intel be successfull in this move? | 20:49 |
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| berndhs | julian_lp: i thought you wanted to learn about programming these devices | 20:49 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | it needs to be something... but everybody seems hell bent on developing their own shaped wheel | 20:50 |
| npm | that's opensource for ya | 20:50 |
| julian_lp | berndhs: Yes that's what I want, I just want to take the right plattform | 20:50 |
| julian_lp | not to waste my time, as I've done many times selecting the wrong tool | 20:50 |
| julian_lp | jejej | 20:50 |
| amjad | julian: you have access to nokia n900 in argentina?? | 20:50 |
| berndhs | julian_lp: no guarantees, and if you actually learn something, your time is not wasted | 20:51 |
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| julian_lp | yes, I can have access to one of those phones | 20:51 |
| Kray | julian_lp: C++/Qt is very useful to learn anyway | 20:51 |
| npm | tired of C++, i'd rather do Vala. | 20:52 |
| julian_lp | kray, I suppose it is, even though I get often confused with the C / C ++ pointers | 20:52 |
| berndhs | julian_lp: yes, you can write good quality applications really fast with C++/Qt | 20:52 |
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| npm | i think vala ought to be the app programming language of choice for meego, not C/C++ | 20:52 |
| julian_lp | I've never heard about vala | 20:53 |
| npm | (since it's basically (C++)++ | 20:53 |
| kraiskil | writing new programming languages is much more fun than using them :) | 20:53 |
| npm | http://live.gnome.org/Vala | 20:53 |
| julian_lp | I started a couple of years ago Eiffel | 20:53 |
| julian_lp | really pretty nice lang | 20:53 |
| julian_lp | now seems to be dead | 20:53 |
| julian_lp | or almost | 20:54 |
| npm | Vala is C# for gnome, minus the virtual machine. preprocessed C. | 20:54 |
| npm | anything that uses gobject introspection, any lib that's been made avaialble that way, aka most of linux/gnome, is available to Vala | 20:54 |
| npm | so it's like java except that gnome libs are your "java library" and it's all in C | 20:55 |
| npm | Tiny, fast. excellent. | 20:55 |
| julian_lp | please dont send me to read web sites cause I've read tons already | 20:55 |
| julian_lp | I just want to ask some quest | 20:55 |
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| kraiskil | Tiny? Gnome? | 20:56 |
| julian_lp | Qt is the rival of GTK | 20:56 |
| julian_lp | ?ยก | 20:56 |
| npm | vala | 20:56 |
| npm | you can have vala for qt apps | 20:56 |
| julian_lp | Is Qt in any way tied to KDE ? | 20:56 |
| berndhs | Qt is better than GTK, Qt is on more platforms | 20:56 |
| Kray | julian_lp: no | 20:56 |
| lcuk | qt is not a rival, they both live on x11 | 20:56 |
| julian_lp | I'm sligthly confussed | 20:56 |
| berndhs | KDE uses Qt | 20:56 |
| Kray | I don't like Gnome | 20:57 |
| kraiskil | does MeeGo even come with Gnome? | 20:57 |
| Kray | of course not | 20:57 |
| julian_lp | so Gnome uses GTK right? | 20:57 |
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| kraiskil | phew :) | 20:58 |
| Kray | julian_lp: yeah | 20:58 |
| npm | well rhythmbox is available on meego, and that'sa gnome app? | 20:58 |
| npm | so the gnome libs are all there\ | 20:58 |
| julian_lp | ok kray now I start to understand | 20:58 |
| npm | whether the gnome desktop is there, no | 20:58 |
| julian_lp | anyway, I guess for Free software "purists" the right choice would have been GTK for meeGo | 20:59 |
| npm | but that's what's there as well. | 21:00 |
| npm | it seems there are gnome config tools there and available on yum | 21:00 |
| Kray | GTK is awful | 21:00 |
| npm | whatever | 21:00 |
| lcuk | heck no julian_lp, for purests, Meego would run ontop of emacs | 21:00 |
| npm | it just is | 21:00 |
| npm | after this many years | 21:00 |
| npm | :-) | 21:00 |
| lcuk | purists even :P | 21:00 |
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| npm | (i use kde desktop, and lots of gnome apps too) | 21:01 |
| julian_lp | npm, gnome apps use gtk and dont use any Qt in that scenario? | 21:01 |
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| npm | all in all, i like meego a lot, but i just wish it was fedora 13 so i could plug yum.repos into fedora updates and rpmfusion | 21:02 |
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| npm | i would imagine. "ls /usr/bin/system-config-*" for example | 21:02 |
| npm | ^^j julian_lp | 21:03 |
| julian_lp | does meeGo run in a standard desktop PC ? | 21:03 |
| julian_lp | for instance in a Intel dual Core | 21:03 |
| npm | it is distributed as i386 and 64 bit | 21:04 |
| berndhs | npm: yes | 21:04 |
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| auke | julian_lp: it runs fine, and the desktop works if you have integrated intel gfx | 21:14 |
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| auke | npm: meego is 32bit only | 21:14 |
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| julian_lp | auke: what's intel gfx can you ellaborate a little more? | 21:21 |
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| csdb | hi - I'm trying to build my local obs repo, and I've run into problems with "pcre" build, its test phase requires a big stack. At first I thought it was a matter of jamming a "ulimit -s" param to the build, but now I think that it is qemu-arm that defaults to too small of a stack | 21:24 |
| csdb | has anyone working on the meego obs run into this? how did you work around it? I was trying to point arm binaries to a qemu-arm-bigstack script to increase the stack size but it didn't work | 21:25 |
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| auke | julian_lp: e.g. 965, or G33/G45 graphics | 21:25 |
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| ALoGeNo | hello all | 21:41 |
| auke | hi | 21:42 |
| ALoGeNo | hey i have neopwn running in the iphone, but hildon is making me gona crazy.. | 21:42 |
| ALoGeNo | anyone can help me a bit please? | 21:42 |
| CosmoHill | nope | 21:43 |
| CosmoHill | we can only help you with meego related things | 21:43 |
| ALoGeNo | oh sorry, im in meego ^^' | 21:43 |
| ALoGeNo | sure, then, i was downloaded the qemu image of meego, that have some xserver? | 21:44 |
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| ALoGeNo | CosmoHill, ? | 21:45 |
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| auke | what are you trying to do? | 21:45 |
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| ALoGeNo | put meego in the iphone ;) | 21:46 |
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| auke | good luck! tell us how you did it | 21:46 |
| ALoGeNo | i have freerunner, neopwn, adn mer runing in the 3G | 21:46 |
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| ALoGeNo | but hildon-desktop dont show the whole desktop, that dont show the buttons.. | 21:47 |
| ALoGeNo | the xserver run but hildon dont show the buttons | 21:47 |
| ALoGeNo | maybe i must to ask in #mer | 21:47 |
| * CosmoHill is confused | 21:47 | |
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| ALoGeNo | sorry for my english :/ | 21:48 |
| CosmoHill | don't worry, I'm confused most of the time | 21:48 |
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| ALoGeNo | the think is that, if i can extract the meego from image i can rebuild the image to run in the iphone | 21:49 |
| CosmoHill | why do that when you have access to the source code | 21:49 |
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| ALoGeNo | becose im a freelace, not a developer CosmoHill | 21:50 |
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| ALoGeNo | freelance* | 21:50 |
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| Venemo | hey | 21:57 |
| Venemo | is it possible to install MeeGo on the rootfs of an N900? | 21:57 |
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| Mat_Matan | hi, can i write apps in Nokia Qt SDK for MeeGo Handset? | 22:00 |
| Venemo | Mat_Matan: alterego said he managed to do so | 22:00 |
| Mat_Matan | ok, thx | 22:01 |
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| CosmoHill | I hate it when I open up wikipedia and then can't remember what I was gonna search for | 22:59 |
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| npm | raises hand | 23:15 |
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| * CosmoHill shakes npm's hand | 23:16 | |
| npm | see http://nielsmayer.com/winterp/ | 23:16 |
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| npm | ^^^ which compiles on meego, using OpenMotif from PlanetCCRMA | 23:19 |
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| npm | Question: When will Qt itself have some audio support akin to Phonon, but separate from KDE, for use in Meego? | 23:21 |
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| npm | (a shirtworthy question IMHO :-) ) | 23:22 |
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| * CosmoHill rattles swear jar | 23:24 | |
| _wolf_ | npm, IIUC in Meego you will have Qt Mobility Multimedia API, which has something simpler to use than Phonon | 23:25 |
| _wolf_ | But Phonon itself might also be available | 23:25 |
| npm | that would be nice | 23:25 |
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| _wolf_ | thiago can give you the definite answer ;) | 23:26 |
| npm | esp. with ability to plugin whatever you want, or not plugin pulseaudio, just use alsa; or for some, use Jackd | 23:26 |
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| npm | http://qtractor.sourceforge.net is what sold me on qt :-) | 23:26 |
| _wolf_ | I think only PA is be available | 23:27 |
| npm | well i already installed jack on my son's netbook from planetccrma... | 23:27 |
| _wolf_ | fiddling with alsa directly from the application layer is frowned upon | 23:27 |
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| npm | question: why X11 and not QT_GRAPHICSSYSTEM=raster ? | 23:39 |
| npm | at least for some devices | 23:40 |
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| npm | sounds like Motif's UIL all over again... | 23:44 |
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