| midwinter_ | sofar: That'll work. Is there an ETA on it? | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| sofar | driver was posted publically yesterday | 00:00 |
| sofar | and no firmware available yet | 00:00 |
| midwinter_ | sofar: what's weird is that I had them working on a pre-1.0 version | 00:00 |
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| midwinter_ | ah. so it really should happen pretty quickly, then | 00:00 |
| sofar | well, it depends on when they post the firmware | 00:01 |
| sofar | until then nobody can actually see if this driver works :) | 00:02 |
| midwinter_ | gotcha | 00:02 |
| midwinter_ | so I guess right now none of the guides for getting them working work anymore? | 00:02 |
| midwinter_ | how many works can I fit in that sentence? | 00:02 |
| sofar | the guide for getting the old closed-source driver should still work | 00:03 |
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| midwinter_ | the one on slaine.com doesn't | 00:03 |
| midwinter_ | er, .org | 00:03 |
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| GNUtoo|laptop | hi, is it possible to create a meego image from ubuntu? | 00:03 |
| midwinter_ | this one: http://slaine.org/_slaine/Meego_1.0_Wifi.html | 00:03 |
| sofar | oooo firmware got posted | 00:04 |
| sofar | http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/dwmw2/linux-firmware.git | 00:04 |
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| GNUtoo|laptop | I'd like to create an image for my n900 | 00:04 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | in a howto there is: | 00:05 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | * Fedora 12 or Fedora 13 | 00:05 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | as requirements | 00:05 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | I bet the howto for ubuntu is not yet written | 00:05 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | is there somehting like debootstrap for fedora? | 00:05 |
| sofar | mic2, the image creator tool for meego, should work on ubuntu | 00:06 |
| sofar | if it doesn't, bugreport | 00:06 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | image creator? does that build the sources? | 00:07 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | is it capable of creating open/free images | 00:07 |
| vlj | err | 00:08 |
| vlj | CosmoHill: in fact you used a p3 ? | 00:08 |
| sofar | it pulls rpms from existing repo's | 00:08 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | ok | 00:08 |
| CosmoHill | P4 2.8Ghz | 00:08 |
| vlj | p3 does not have sse 2 instruction at all | 00:08 |
| sofar | you can make it point to whatever repo, including your own | 00:08 |
| vlj | hum | 00:08 |
| vlj | so there is something wrong with my package :) | 00:08 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | how do I compile ofono then? | 00:08 |
| CosmoHill | they installed and nothing broke that wasn't already brokne | 00:08 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | for instance from last trunk | 00:08 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | I'll start with the image creator then | 00:10 |
| vlj | yup but they did not repair anything | 00:10 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | and see the reset after | 00:10 |
| CosmoHill | I'm not sure | 00:10 |
| sofar | GNUtoo|laptop: making an image is just that, making an image from existing rpms | 00:10 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | ok | 00:10 |
| sofar | GNUtoo|laptop: if you want to modify binaries, you need to build rpms yourself using whatever method, and then you can put them in a repo for the image tool to get them from there | 00:11 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | ok | 00:11 |
| vlj | would like opinion of ali1234 | 00:12 |
| * smithna wonders if he's the 1st person trying the IVI in an actual car... | 00:12 | |
| vlj | he has a sse3-detect script | 00:12 |
| vlj | smithna: do you have a good car insurrance ? :p | 00:13 |
| smithna | lol | 00:13 |
| smithna | For as much money as I pay.... It had better be good | 00:13 |
| CosmoHill | lol | 00:15 |
| CosmoHill | smithna: I don't even have a CD player in my car you posh bastard :p | 00:15 |
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| smithna | CosmoHill: Is that because you're still rocking with the 8-track? | 00:16 |
| CosmoHill | what's that? | 00:16 |
| * smithna hopes he's kidding.... | 00:16 | |
| CosmoHill | it's some kinda cassette thingy | 00:17 |
| smithna | I'm feeling older by the minute. | 00:17 |
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| * CosmoHill has to go back to school on monday :( | 00:18 | |
| smithna | 8-tracks and REAL floppies are from the same time frame... | 00:19 |
| CosmoHill | damn GCSEs | 00:19 |
| vlj | gce ? | 00:20 |
| CosmoHill | just kidding, I'm not that young | 00:20 |
| vlj | what is gcse ? | 00:21 |
| CosmoHill | General Certificate of Secondary Education | 00:21 |
| smithna | so we know CosmoHill is older than 16.... | 00:22 |
| vlj | ok | 00:22 |
| CosmoHill | vlj: wikipedia ftw | 00:23 |
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| smithna | Ok, before I grow any more grey hair -- hasn't anyone tried getting a usb gps working with navit? From the mailing list that's suppose to happen via gypsy / geoclue, but I can't figure out how to get that working | 00:25 |
| vlj | where can you find a gps usb ? | 00:26 |
| sofar | smithna: perhaps the ivi forum would be a place to ask | 00:26 |
| CosmoHill | vlj: http://www.kustompcs.co.uk/acatalog/info_3460.html | 00:27 |
| sofar | vlj: there's plenty of usb gps devices | 00:27 |
| smithna | http://store.mp3car.com/BU_353_USB_GPS_Receiver_p/gps-002.htm | 00:27 |
| smithna | One I have... | 00:27 |
| vlj | there is no software in meego to use them ? | 00:27 |
| smithna | Meego has gpsd / gpysy / and geoclue all installed by default in the IVI. gpsd && gypsy, for this discussion, solve the same problem. Discussion on the mailing list suggest that the approved solution will/is gypsy | 00:29 |
| smithna | http://gypsy.freedesktop.org/wiki/ | 00:30 |
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| smithna | http://gpsd.berlios.de/ | 00:31 |
| vlj | but they don't provide a navigate system or ? | 00:31 |
| smithna | that's what navit is -- http://wiki.navit-project.org/index.php/Main_Page | 00:32 |
| smithna | which is also installed by default | 00:33 |
| smithna | So, all the pieces are there | 00:33 |
| sofar | does meego's navit use gypsy? | 00:37 |
| sofar | from ther navit site I get the idea that navit needs gpsd | 00:37 |
| vlj | who is behind navit ? | 00:37 |
| vlj | i mean, which corporation | 00:37 |
| smithna | it's open source. | 00:38 |
| smithna | brb | 00:38 |
| vlj | yup but who is the main contributor ? | 00:39 |
| sofar | the navit website just has some names, no companies | 00:39 |
| vlj | they don't get money for what they do ? ;) | 00:40 |
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| sofar | ye of little faith | 00:45 |
| CosmoHill | infidel! | 00:45 |
| vlj | :p | 00:46 |
| vlj | it seems to be a too big project to be only done by a few hobbyist on their spare time | 00:46 |
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| Stskeeps | like that stopped anyone ever | 00:51 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 00:51 |
| vlj | well it could ^^ | 00:53 |
| vlj | it seems that there are some unfunny things done in this project | 00:54 |
| vlj | like reverse engeenering some binary proprietary format for map | 00:54 |
| smithna | vlj: navit predates meego, and no I don't think they are backed by anybody | 00:55 |
| smithna | vlj: no, the default data comes from a seperate open source project called openstreets | 00:56 |
| smithna | http://www.openstreetmap.org/ | 00:56 |
| CosmoHill | "I got in trouble on a date once. I didn't open the car door for here | 00:57 |
| CosmoHill | "I just swam for the surface" | 00:57 |
| vlj | but there is some libgarmin stuff | 00:57 |
| smithna | CosmoHill: did you get another date? | 00:57 |
| CosmoHill | nope :( | 00:58 |
| smithna | vlj: navit allows one to use garmin maps that you own | 00:58 |
| CosmoHill | well kinda, as long as it was within walking distance | 00:58 |
| vlj | smithna: so they need to reverse engeenering the garmin format for map | 00:58 |
| smithna | vlj: I don't know enough about thier format to be sure -- I use openstreetmaps | 00:59 |
| felipec | is there a tool to measure the battery drain? | 01:00 |
| sofar | powertop should tell you | 01:00 |
| smithna | http://wiki.navit-project.org/index.php/Garmin_maps | 01:01 |
| smithna | they are for unlocked garmin maps | 01:02 |
| felipec | sofar: powertop only tells you the cpu frequency and states, not the rate at which the battery is drained | 01:03 |
| sofar | it should, unless you have a device that doesn't support acpi power reporting | 01:03 |
| Stskeeps | arm? ;) | 01:04 |
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| sofar | Stskeeps: go implement that ;) | 01:04 |
| Stskeeps | what does acpi traditionally report? | 01:04 |
| Stskeeps | (like, which values | 01:04 |
| felipec | sofar: ahh, I thought this was #maemo... powertop on the N900 doesn't show anything like that | 01:04 |
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| sofar | Stskeeps: mV values | 01:05 |
| Stskeeps | well, we don't have proper PM, so powertop would probably just reboot the device to end your misery | 01:05 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 01:05 |
| Stskeeps | sofar: hrm. i guess we can get that possibly | 01:05 |
| sofar | powertop interpolates the drain and calculates battery life time from that | 01:05 |
| sofar | hmmm this is fun | 01:05 |
| sofar | doing tricky things to btrfs | 01:06 |
| sofar | # ls mnt/var/btrfs/ | 01:06 |
| sofar | Killed | 01:06 |
| sofar | lol | 01:06 |
| Stskeeps | oops | 01:06 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 01:06 |
| Stskeeps | who was it that said btrfs was stable again? | 01:06 |
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| sofar | I'm messing with subvolumes | 01:06 |
| Stskeeps | ah | 01:06 |
| sofar | but they're both on a loopback device | 01:06 |
| sofar | I think it's screwing up the block layer | 01:06 |
| felipec | hmm, but the powertop in maemo seems to be a completely different beast | 01:07 |
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| Stskeeps | it is | 01:07 |
| smithna | BTW: http://wiki.navit-project.org/index.php/Configuring_Navit shows that navit supposedly has support for gypsy | 01:07 |
| felipec | Stskeeps: I'm using btrfs on my laptop | 01:07 |
| felipec | definitely not stable | 01:07 |
| Stskeeps | i think the implementation was a ARM specific powertop or something.. | 01:08 |
| Stskeeps | i should ask eero tamminen about that.. | 01:08 |
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| felipec | Stskeeps: I think Igor Stopa was more involved | 01:09 |
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| Stskeeps | maybe | 01:09 |
| CosmoHill | my friend from MS is going to the apple store, can I giggle? | 01:09 |
| sofar | no | 01:10 |
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| Stskeeps | at least we'll have plenty of fun in meego 1.2 when real omap pm comes in.. | 01:10 |
| sofar | you're required to laugh out loud | 01:10 |
| CosmoHill | I lol'd and I think he still came off better | 01:11 |
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| vlj | does clutter work with qt ? | 01:26 |
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| niala | vlj, MeeGo's UI API is based on the Qt toolkit as described in the architecture; MeeGo will also include Clutter and GTK+. | 01:30 |
| niala | http://meego.com/about/faq | 01:30 |
| vlj | yup but qt and clutter are somewhat exclusive | 01:31 |
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| vlj | +mutually | 01:31 |
| Stskeeps | vlj: not really, it just uses gl(es) | 01:31 |
| Stskeeps | clutter's a framework and i don't see any good reason why a clutter app couldn't run in for example handset ux (mcompositor bug exluded) | 01:32 |
| vlj | but qt is a framework too | 01:32 |
| vlj | I mean when you write an app in qt, you cannot use clutter api to animate things | 01:33 |
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| * CosmoHill grabs his hamster and sticks it in a ball | 01:34 | |
| Stskeeps | vlj: http://lists.o-hand.com/clutter/3014.html ? ;) | 01:35 |
| vlj | ok | 01:35 |
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| vlj | thanks for the link | 01:36 |
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| * CosmoHill dances cos his team own | 01:56 | |
| CosmoHill | *won | 01:59 |
| Mat_Matan | You use ovi app wizard? What is that | 02:02 |
| ScottishDuck | CosmoHill: what team would that be | 02:02 |
| CosmoHill | Reading FC | 02:02 |
| ScottishDuck | lol | 02:02 |
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| * CosmoHill toys with his hamster | 02:15 | |
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| CosmoHill | ScottishDuck: if I set the new videos to 720p on youtube, I can download the mp4 version and play that full screen :D | 02:26 |
| ScottishDuck | ;d | 02:26 |
| ScottishDuck | :D | 02:26 |
| CosmoHill | first smily looks like an angrey dude brushing his teeth | 02:26 |
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| vgrade | CosmoHill, catching up on dirty Leeds | 02:29 |
| niala | CosmoHill, maybe with a wheel and aand your hamster, you can provide electricity for your computer | 02:29 |
| CosmoHill | niala: that would require him to get of his arse | 02:30 |
| CosmoHill | he''s been sat in his ball the whole time not moving | 02:31 |
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| CosmoHill | I go back to uni soon so my hours on here should change a little | 02:48 |
| bef0rd | we'll miss you. | 02:49 |
| CosmoHill | that's sweet | 02:49 |
| CosmoHill | it's a lie, but still sweet | 02:49 |
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| CosmoHill | in another channel we've seem to have gone from "your mum" jokes to physics | 02:55 |
| CosmoHill | (both to do with mass tho) | 02:55 |
| CosmoHill | night night | 02:56 |
| lcuk | nn | 02:56 |
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| Mat_Matan | Good night | 03:01 |
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| rtyler | on a scale of delusion from [0---------10] where would you place my expectations of the meego netbook preview resurrecting my Eee PC 701? | 04:45 |
| rtyler | or is this arm only? | 04:45 |
| ShadowJK | lol | 04:45 |
| ShadowJK | No it's not | 04:45 |
| rtyler | oh wait, atom is i386, who knew! | 04:45 |
| ShadowJK | But eee pc 701 is that celeron thing which needs a bit more work because intel is targeting atom in their builds | 04:46 |
| ShadowJK | as far as I know atleast | 04:46 |
| rtyler | I'm /tempted/ to drop the handset preview onto my n900, but I'm worried about assing myself out of a usable phone with maemo 5 | 04:46 |
| rtyler | too bad I can't hack this 701's screen into a touchscreen, it'd be awesome to have a giant n900 with a slip-out keyboard and everything ;) | 04:47 |
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| ShadowJK | with "more work" I mainly mean recompile of entire system | 04:48 |
| rtyler | eeep | 04:53 |
| bef0rd | according to some people its not really the whole system, only some packages are compiled with ssse3 | 04:53 |
| rtyler | man is the download slow | 05:00 |
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| rtyler | ShadowJK: well, the live image boots fine: http://www.flickr.com/photos/agentdero/4981513354/ | 05:40 |
| rtyler | (disregard the screw driver >_>) | 05:40 |
| rtyler | much snappier than I expected | 05:40 |
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| skibur | how is meego coming along? | 06:02 |
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| skibur | hum? | 06:07 |
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| bef0rd | meego is going good :P? | 06:11 |
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| skibur | how about for the n800 | 06:13 |
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| rtyler | drats, it's looking like the netbook install is hanging on "installing bootloader" | 08:04 |
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| rtyler | interesting, it /appears/ that meego is preventing the fan from spinning up on this Eee | 08:38 |
| swc|666 | rtyler, having the same issue as we speak with linux on my m11x cooincedentally :s | 08:40 |
| swc|666 | s/coo/co/ | 08:40 |
| infobot | swc|666 meant: rtyler, having the same issue as we speak with linux on my m11x coincedentally :s | 08:40 |
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| sofar | I'm pretty sure there's nothing in meego doing any fan suppression | 08:43 |
| rtyler | heh | 08:45 |
| rtyler | sofar: yeah, I believe the machien will turn the fan on automagically | 08:46 |
| rtyler | in BIOS after I rebooted the fan came on | 08:46 |
| rtyler | but not while using the live image | 08:46 |
| rtyler | hm | 08:46 |
| sofar | perhaps the slow speed of usb IO is enough energy to dissipate | 08:47 |
| rtyler | huh? | 08:47 |
| sofar | once you boot from the hard disc/ssd the io hub gets hotter? | 08:47 |
| sofar | before the fan kicks in | 08:48 |
| rtyler | cant tell, the installer failed on the bootloader :( | 08:48 |
| rtyler | can't boot from btfs? :( | 08:49 |
| sofar | needs a /boot that's ext2/3 | 08:53 |
| sofar | until we get syslinux-4.0 merged | 08:53 |
| rtyler | gah, curse my cheapness in buying a 4G Eee | 08:54 |
| rtyler | how small of a /boot can I get away with? | 08:55 |
| sofar | 50m-100m is enough for 1-2 kernels | 08:55 |
| sofar | 100m is usually plenty | 08:55 |
| rtyler | jeepers | 08:56 |
| sofar | -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 3.5M Aug 2 22:21 vmlinuz-2.6.33.5-23.1-netbook | 08:56 |
| sofar | if you're insane, try 20-30meg | 08:56 |
| rtyler | 50m it is :P | 08:56 |
| rtyler | this is doomed from the start if this fan doesn't bloody start up | 08:56 |
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| rtyler | swc|666: you find any workaround? | 08:57 |
| swc|666 | rtyler, nope | 08:57 |
| swc|666 | no idea what the deal is | 08:57 |
| swc|666 | about to install that nvidia bench too to heat things up to see if the bios kicks it on | 08:58 |
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| rtyler | godspeed moon cat | 08:58 |
| rtyler | crap, this won't properly install a bootloader either | 08:59 |
| swc|666 | lol | 08:59 |
| * rtyler waves fist in the air | 08:59 | |
| swc|666 | :s | 08:59 |
| rtyler | swc|666: how'd you install? | 09:00 |
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| swc|666 | rtyler, i'm using xubuntu | 09:01 |
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| rtyler | thought this was meego related | 09:01 |
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| swc|666 | it is, but it is coincedental you and i are both having fan issues | 09:01 |
| swc|666 | ++ | 09:02 |
| rtyler | ah | 09:02 |
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| rtyler | going to give installing onto an SD card in the card slot on this sucker | 09:15 |
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| rtyler | looks like my bootloader problem was known about back in may: http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=2122&postcount=7 | 09:50 |
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| Texrat | hey Khertan_Home | 09:56 |
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| Stskeeps | morn texrat | 09:56 |
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| Stskeeps | Texrat: really good job at meegons btw, think it was first step towards a feeling of community identity :) | 09:57 |
| Texrat | ty Stskeeps, that's one reason I'm doing it! | 09:58 |
| Texrat | that and keeping up the graphics skills ;) | 09:58 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 09:59 |
| Texrat | I found I really enjoy Inkscape | 10:00 |
| Texrat | what really sucks though is my printer broke down :( | 10:04 |
| Stskeeps | am happy the people making planes arent the same making printers.. | 10:05 |
| Stskeeps | am so happy i'm finally travelling home tuesday.. been some really long days | 10:07 |
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| Mat_Matan | Good morning | 10:08 |
| Stskeeps | morn | 10:08 |
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| Texrat | Stskeeps I bought soem special sticker sheets for the meegons | 10:13 |
| Texrat | plan is to print them out for the conferende, for badges | 10:13 |
| Texrat | if I can just scrape up cash for a new printer... :( | 10:13 |
| Texrat | conference* | 10:14 |
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| Stskeeps | Texrat: or including them as part of meego badge | 10:21 |
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| Stskeeps | right, checking out of hotel | 10:24 |
| Stskeeps | (going to tampere) | 10:25 |
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| Texrat | Stskeeps the meegons could be pri nted to badges, but there are some issues... | 10:31 |
| Texrat | one, someone would have to set it up. No one took that for maemo... | 10:31 |
| Texrat | two, the community seems to have no input on the MeeGo conference badges | 10:32 |
| Texrat | I volunteered to design them in April, Quim seemed to approve, and now I hear they're outsourced | 10:32 |
| th0br0 | meegons? | 10:32 |
| th0br0 | where are they? :D | 10:32 |
| Texrat | MeeGo avatars, th0br0 | 10:32 |
| th0br0 | but where to take a look at them? | 10:33 |
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| Texrat | hang on a sec th0br0... | 10:37 |
| Texrat | th0br0 here's the wiki page: http://wiki.meego.com/Meegons | 10:39 |
| th0br0 | thanks. | 10:39 |
| th0br0 | they really look pretty nice. | 10:40 |
| Texrat | and here's my post about creatign them: http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=1134 | 10:40 |
| * th0br0 likes em :D | 10:40 | |
| Texrat | thanks... I din't do all, just most | 10:40 |
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| Khertan_Home | Hi Texrat | 10:53 |
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| Texrat | hey hhartz | 10:59 |
| Texrat | hey achipa | 10:59 |
| Texrat | and thiago_home | 10:59 |
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| hhartz | Texrat: morning! | 10:59 |
| Texrat | yeah, goign to be a long one | 11:00 |
| Texrat | I'm at work | 11:00 |
| Texrat | 3am here | 11:00 |
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| hhartz | Texrat: on a sunday? | 11:01 |
| Texrat | hhartz the joys of workign in IT | 11:01 |
| Texrat | working* | 11:01 |
| Texrat | I have to coordinate software updates with India | 11:01 |
| hhartz | Texrat: I see. that blows... at least you have few disruptions! | 11:02 |
| Texrat | well hhartz that depends | 11:03 |
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| Texrat | on how well everyone else does their job ;) | 11:03 |
| Texrat | I make a lot of calls to pull people in to fix whatever breaks | 11:03 |
| Texrat | rule of IT changes: every fix breaks 2 other things ;) | 11:03 |
| hhartz | heh | 11:05 |
| hhartz | CI ftw | 11:05 |
| achipa | Texrat: hey ! | 11:06 |
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| * Texrat laughs as achipa wakes up after being slapped with alrge trout | 11:09 | |
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| Texrat | large* | 11:10 |
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| achipa | herring more likely :) it's just that this chat thingy won't beep... got bored of all the window whoosh sounds and seems in my trigger happiness I killed the notify sound, too :) | 11:11 |
| Texrat | there she is | 11:12 |
| thiago_home | hey Texrat | 11:13 |
| Texrat | damn why do I always get hungry when I work this late | 11:13 |
| Texrat | thiago_home I have been enjoying your emails on meego-dev lately | 11:13 |
| Texrat | good stuff ;) | 11:13 |
| RevdKathy | Texrat - you make me sound like a whale "Thar she blows!" | 11:14 |
| Texrat | heh | 11:14 |
| Texrat | if that's what you would prefer | 11:15 |
| RevdKathy | No comments on my physique, please! | 11:15 |
| Texrat | I'm in shape... round is a shape! | 11:15 |
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| * thiago_home needs to do his second pass at the conference proposals | 11:15 | |
| * RevdKathy passes Texrat a packet of diggie biccies to survive his morning meeting | 11:15 | |
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| thiago_home | my first pass selected 140 talks... | 11:15 |
| achipa | thiago_home: what's the rough 'capacity' (=final count target) ? | 11:16 |
| thiago_home | achipa: we're not sure | 11:16 |
| thiago_home | we have 4 rooms available right now | 11:16 |
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| thiago_home | but it also depends on how we spread out the sessions | 11:17 |
| thiago_home | we have two 3-hour afternoons and one 4-hour morning, plus the keynotes and the third day | 11:17 |
| achipa | thiago_home: just please don't repeat the Summit mistake - like put the really interesting talks in the small rooms (as in platform talk is 'boring') and then have 100 geeks stuck in the entrance door :) | 11:18 |
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| thiago_home | I don't know the capacity of the rooms | 11:19 |
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| thiago_home | gotta ask Amy | 11:19 |
| Stskeeps | thiago_home: listed on wiki page | 11:19 |
| thiago_home | it is? | 11:19 |
| thiago_home | ok, then I need to read the wiki :-) | 11:19 |
| dm8tbr | Stskeeps: hopefully in october I'll be getting the 101 - what do I install on that HX or tablet? ;) http://www.slashgear.com/archos-7-and-archos-101-hands-on-video-03100555 | 11:19 |
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| Stskeeps | dm8tbr: only handset is out.. tablets nfi | 11:20 |
| dm8tbr | meh | 11:20 |
| dm8tbr | right we installed netbook on the a9 | 11:20 |
| * thiago_home wants the just-announced A15 | 11:21 | |
| dm8tbr | will HX scale well to an 1024x600 resolution or will it be like 6 icons spread all over the screen | 11:21 |
| dm8tbr | thiago_home: in which device? :) | 11:22 |
| thiago_home | doesn't matter. Any device. Just put a Cortex-A15 inside :-) | 11:22 |
| dm8tbr | hehe | 11:22 |
| dm8tbr | note: in this context a9 means Archos9 | 11:22 |
| thiago_home | ah, ok | 11:22 |
| thiago_home | well, I still want a Cortex-A15 | 11:22 |
| dm8tbr | http://www.openaos.org/archives/508 | 11:23 |
| Stskeeps | dm8tbr: there is a conf file | 11:23 |
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| achipa | dm8tbr: well, it's not THAT much bigger than 800x480 | 11:23 |
| * thiago_home reboots his proto | 11:24 | |
| achipa | (at 10" I kinda expected somebody will get brave and go for 720p :) ) | 11:24 |
| achipa | good for marketing and all, esp Archos and video talk | 11:25 |
| dm8tbr | achipa: now those displays are available, when archos had to place orders in spring they weren't :[ | 11:25 |
| dm8tbr | same goes for the a70 which sadly only comes with 800x480 | 11:25 |
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| achipa | dm8tbr: heh, the age old nasty - dev manufacturers wishing component manufacturers don't announce things to the public :) | 11:27 |
| dm8tbr | I have an 800x480 device by archos that's 7", it's 2 years old now. it's nice, but moaarrrr resolution!!!! | 11:27 |
| dm8tbr | yepp | 11:27 |
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| dm8tbr | I could run meego on it as it's an A8, but it would be slowww due to the missing SGX core | 11:28 |
| bef0rd | powervr? | 11:29 |
| achipa | dm8tbr: what SoC is in there ? | 11:30 |
| dm8tbr | it's an TI something something, let me look it up | 11:31 |
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| dm8tbr | our wiki says: CPU: OMAP3525, 600 MHz ARM Cortex-A8 ( Instruction set reference) + 430 MHz C64x+ DSP + ISP (Image Signal Processor) | 11:31 |
| th0br0 | isp, huh | 11:32 |
| th0br0 | what is that? | 11:32 |
| dm8tbr | the A5IT, last years generation is nicer | 11:32 |
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| th0br0 | something camera related? | 11:32 |
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| dm8tbr | prolly the special bits of the dsp | 11:32 |
| th0br0 | CMOS image sensor, an Image Signal Processor (ISP) defines the image quality and the speed performance of the camera subsystem in a mobile handset. | 11:33 |
| dm8tbr | for video codecs | 11:33 |
| dm8tbr | the device does video encoding in real-time, so it might be related to that | 11:33 |
| th0br0 | ah ok | 11:34 |
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| dm8tbr | last years hardware has an CPU: OMAP3430 with 800MHz | 11:35 |
| dm8tbr | and SGX | 11:35 |
| dm8tbr | we have a community froyo build and meego is next on our list. one guy has a PoC but is on vacation in china. | 11:36 |
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| amjad | rain is playing hide and seek here with chances of flood | 11:53 |
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| rzr | hi | 12:51 |
| rzr | does meego-handset-armv5tel-n810-daily-vmlinuz-2.6.35~rc4-9.9-n8x0 actually work ? | 12:51 |
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| thiago_home | define "work" | 12:52 |
| rzr | boot at least :) | 12:52 |
| thiago_home | yes, I think it boots | 12:53 |
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| rzr | using flasher ? | 12:53 |
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| rzr | 100% (1905 of 1905 kB, avg. 805 kB/s) | 12:54 |
| rzr | i can load it | 12:54 |
| rzr | but the screen is all black | 12:54 |
| rzr | and reboot | 12:54 |
| rzr | humm the rootfs is not for sd .. | 12:55 |
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| Shapeshifter | Will the default meego installation, or rather any installation that will ship on mobile devices include the GNU coreutils? Or will they drop almost anything just to save a few kb like nokia did? | 14:24 |
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| achipa | Shapeshifter: define 'default' meego installation | 14:35 |
| achipa | if the comments on the list are anything to go by, saving space is not exactly a priority | 14:36 |
| thiago_home | Shapeshifter: meego uses bash + coreutils | 14:43 |
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| Shapeshifter | thiago_home: nice | 14:53 |
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| RST38h | And moo to you all gentlemen | 16:23 |
| CosmoHill | moo | 16:24 |
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| CosmoHill | is it good or bad that XZ is rounding off to the nearest hour? | 17:12 |
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| jedlhl | hi all, it is possible to get the very latest meego env (i.e. daily trunk builds) for n900's nowadays isn't it? One just has to be prepared and img from that daily trunk right? | 17:28 |
| jedlhl | One just has to be prepared to build an img from that daily trunk right? | 17:29 |
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| Stskeeps | yes | 17:30 |
| Stskeeps | some exceptions if we updated closed blobs (published weekly) but usually latest weeklys work | 17:31 |
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| Jaffa | Stskeeps: Is next week's likely to work; given last week's Qt problems? | 17:32 |
| Stskeeps | jaffa, we are very well along as of this sunday | 17:33 |
| Jaffa | Stskeeps: Cool. | 17:33 |
| Stskeeps | if its in trunk yyet, im not sure | 17:34 |
| Stskeeps | we mostly dabble in acceptance images | 17:34 |
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| jedlhl | Thanks stskeeps, looking forward to trying this puppy out to see how it compared to PR1.2. | 17:40 |
| jedlhl | 'compares' | 17:40 |
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| Termana | Maltese Shitsu vs Aggressive Rottweiler | 17:42 |
| Termana | That's what that puppy is going to compare like | 17:42 |
| Termana | :P | 17:43 |
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| jedlhl | care to elaborate? | 17:44 |
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| Termana | I didn't think too far into the statement. But, PR1.2 is like an Aggressive Rottweiler, fast, does things, and will rip you apart like a rag doll. The Maltese Shitsu will sit there and yap and lay down and do nothing and is much slower than a Rottweiler. | 17:46 |
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| vlj | ali1234: ping | 17:46 |
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| Termana | Or rather, MeeGo just isn't ready yet on the N900. It's slow, and I don't think this is planned to be fixed for a little while (until patches are merged upstream and the kernel is used downstream in MeeGo) | 17:47 |
| jedlhl | yikes that sound like a pretty damming assesment of meego | 17:47 |
| jedlhl | ah i see | 17:47 |
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| Termana | But it will be enjoyable if your a geek, like myself :P Get my geek on | 17:47 |
| Termana | Giggady giggady | 17:48 |
| lcuk | Is there ANY handset that makes meego flay? | 17:48 |
| lcuk | fly | 17:48 |
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| jedlhl | aside from the fact that its slow/buggy, do you notice a lot more features/functionality right away? | 17:49 |
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| vlj | lcuk: aava mobile ? ;) | 17:49 |
| lcuk | even if its uptime and battery life can be measured in minutes | 17:49 |
| Termana | lcuk, Aava? | 17:49 |
| lcuk | vlj, I don't consider that fast | 17:49 |
| Termana | lcuk, potentially the Snapdragon port would work fast, besides software rendering | 17:49 |
| lcuk | I have a rather high watermark | 17:49 |
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| Termana | lcuk, but the N900 could do it fast, with the right kernel | 17:49 |
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| lcuk | Termana, what would a kernel do | 17:51 |
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| Termana | lcuk, DVFS (dynamic voltage frequency scaling) is missing in the current kernel | 17:52 |
| Emanon | ok i know why you optimize meego for atom cpus (cause the target devices have pretty much nothing else) but why restrict it so i cant run it in virtualization with some generic 32 bit cpu? | 17:52 |
| lcuk | vlj, for speed reference, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AeVPddxHW84 | 17:52 |
| Termana | lcuk, the theory is that the N900 is being locked at a low speed because of this | 17:52 |
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| Emanon | cause i dont have an atom powered device but i wanna see how this stuff works even if i take a hit to performance due to non optimal cpu | 17:52 |
| Termana | lcuk, integrating patches from omap-pm, or rebasing onto an omap-pm kernel would fix this | 17:52 |
| Emanon | in case i want to install it on say my moms netbook (currently ubuntu netbook edition) or some customers (prolly xp or 7) | 17:53 |
| lcuk | hmm | 17:53 |
| vlj | Emanon: you can run it on any intel powered device | 17:54 |
| vlj | that have ssse3 extension | 17:54 |
| lcuk | can meego handset run on high powered netbooks? | 17:54 |
| Emanon | cant run it on a kvm 32 bit virtual machine | 17:54 |
| Emanon | which is what i got | 17:54 |
| vlj | what is your cpu Emanon ? | 17:54 |
| Emanon | phenom 64 x4 | 17:54 |
| vlj | it's not an Intel cpu ;) | 17:55 |
| Emanon | i know | 17:55 |
| Emanon | thus my question | 17:55 |
| Emanon | why restrict it so it cant run on a generic virtualized cpu | 17:55 |
| vlj | the answer is "Meego is an Intel powered project" | 17:55 |
| Emanon | thats stupid | 17:55 |
| vlj | "buy our stuff" | 17:55 |
| Emanon | your stupid | 17:55 |
| vlj | things like that | 17:55 |
| Emanon | fuck you you limp prick | 17:55 |
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| Termana | Well. That was certainly a guy and a half | 17:56 |
| lcuk | ahem vlj | 17:56 |
| lcuk | I purchased a 20" multitouch all in one computer/monitor after Meego announce | 17:56 |
| lcuk | with intention of running meego on it | 17:56 |
| lcuk | but, its the wrong intel :| | 17:56 |
| vlj | which cpu ? | 17:56 |
| lcuk | so thats not fair assessment | 17:56 |
| Termana | lcuk, they call that AMD | 17:57 |
| Termana | the wrong intel | 17:57 |
| Termana | :D | 17:57 |
| Termana | :P | 17:57 |
| vlj | I run meego on a core 2 Quad and on a Core i5 | 17:57 |
| * Termana waits to hear hate-mail from AMD fans | 17:57 | |
| vlj | so you may have a very special intel cpu | 17:57 |
| * microlith needs to install MeeGo on his aspire one for thursday | 17:57 | |
| microlith | err | 17:57 |
| microlith | tuesday | 17:57 |
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| vlj | Termana: I think this is a bad policy for a project that aims at becoming an android counter | 17:58 |
| vlj | sadly the ssse3 lock is hard to remove | 17:59 |
| lcuk | http://www.packardbell.co.uk/pb/en/GB/content/model/PW.U3502.034 | 17:59 |
| Termana | vlj, I agree, I'm strongly opposed to the x86 variants not being generic. I was just making a joke :P | 17:59 |
| lcuk | # Processor & Chipset | 17:59 |
| lcuk | * | 17:59 |
| lcuk | » Processor Manufacturer: Intel® | 17:59 |
| lcuk | * | 17:59 |
| lcuk | » Processor Type: Pentium™ Dual Core™ processor | 17:59 |
| lcuk | * | 17:59 |
| lcuk | » Processor Model: T4400 | 17:59 |
| microlith | ouch | 17:59 |
| lcuk | which has enough grunt to run the netbook model in software | 18:00 |
| lcuk | is modern enough to run windows 7 happily | 18:00 |
| vlj | why does it not run ? | 18:00 |
| lcuk | but cannot by default be compatible with meego | 18:00 |
| lcuk | because its not atom | 18:00 |
| Termana | I also don't care much for the x86 variants, just because I like more mobile devices better, but that's another story | 18:00 |
| vlj | lcuk: does it supports ssse 3? | 18:00 |
| microlith | it was released at the end of 2009... | 18:01 |
| vlj | its strange | 18:02 |
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| lcuk | idk there was something I couldnt do with it last time I looked | 18:02 |
| vlj | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Pentium_Dual-Core_microprocessors according to that, Meego should run on your desktop | 18:03 |
| vlj | vgrade: ping | 18:03 |
| lcuk | its got gma graphics | 18:04 |
| vlj | which is supported | 18:04 |
| vlj | (its gma 4500 not gma 500) | 18:04 |
| * lcuk regrabs latest image and tries again then :) | 18:04 | |
| lcuk | so its only the 500 thats not usable? | 18:05 |
| vlj | yep | 18:05 |
| vlj | it's only gma 500 | 18:05 |
| vlj | and very old intel chipset like i8xx ones | 18:06 |
| jedlhl | yay for emanon, what a civil young lad :) | 18:06 |
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| vlj | ali1234: ping | 18:07 |
| jedlhl | so termana: aside from the fact that its slow/buggy, do you notice a lot more features/functionality Vs PR1.2? | 18:08 |
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| Termana | jedlhl, a lot LESS features at the moment really. The last I tried (not the latest weekly, the one before IIRC), the terminal wouldn't even open. | 18:09 |
| Termana | Phone / Data is still missing, to my knowledge | 18:09 |
| Termana | Wifi works though | 18:10 |
| smoku | is rpmbuild able to do cross-compile builds? | 18:10 |
| jedlhl | eiiisshh, why bother with it then unless you're a dev, k thnx! | 18:10 |
| Termana | jedlhl, Like I said, its not ready yet. It's still cooking. | 18:10 |
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| vlj | smoku: do you have a ssse3 less computer ? ;) | 18:11 |
| Termana | jedlhl, if you looking for something that will be everyday useable, i'd look to the October release | 18:11 |
| Termana | you're* | 18:11 |
| Termana | See what happens then | 18:11 |
| smoku | vlj, no. does that matter? | 18:11 |
| vlj | err no I was just asking | 18:11 |
| jedlhl | are they holding back on a lot of functionality to get speed/stability, any idea when that'll come onboard (roughly) so that more feature can be enabled. | 18:12 |
| jedlhl | ah i see thnnx | 18:12 |
| Termana | jedlhl, nothing is being held back, to my knowledge. | 18:12 |
| vlj | smoku: try to run rpmbuild within qemu ? | 18:12 |
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| smoku | vlj, that's not what I asked. running under qemu is not cross-compile | 18:13 |
| vlj | yup but rpmbuild should build for the arch it detects | 18:13 |
| vlj | otherwise I have no idea | 18:13 |
| vlj | except running a fake arm system | 18:14 |
| smoku | I know I could build ARM packages on ARM architecture. I am asking whether rpmbuild is able to build ARM packages on x86 architecture. | 18:14 |
| Termana | smoku, I like how you "stuck it to the man" in your Dell Streak picture :P | 18:15 |
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| smoku | Termana, don't follow | 18:15 |
| vlj | smoku : if you have a gcc with cross compiling option you can "modify" gcc /usr/bin to link a gcc -arch arm | 18:15 |
| vlj | http://wiki.mandriva.com/en/Creating_a_cross_compiler smoku | 18:16 |
| Termana | smoku, http://wiki.meego.com/File:Streak2.jpg did someone else add the blurb to the picture? :P | 18:16 |
| smoku | vlj, I have CodeSourcery ARM EABI toolchain installed which builds ARM kernel just fine. I wonder whether I could build RPM packages similar way. | 18:17 |
| smoku | Termana, no. it was me :D | 18:17 |
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| smoku | Termana, but i don't get "stuck it to the man" idiom | 18:18 |
| vlj | smoku: do you have a "make" ? | 18:18 |
| vlj | with your arm toolchain | 18:18 |
| smoku | vlj, no. only compilers | 18:19 |
| smoku | and binutils | 18:19 |
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| vlj | smoku: what happens if you do ln -s /path/to/buildsourcery/gcc /usr/bin/gcc ? | 18:19 |
| vlj | (backup /usr/bin/gcc ofcourse) | 18:20 |
| Termana | smoku, it's slang - the man is the government, large corporations or other authority figures. When you "stick it to them" it's about encouraging resistance to that entity (government, large corporation, authority figure etc.) | 18:20 |
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| smoku | Termana, ok. http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=stick%20it%20to%20the%20man helped ;-) | 18:21 |
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| smoku | Termana, I'm not very proud I had to do this. | 18:22 |
| Termana | Well, urban dictionary definitions work too :P | 18:22 |
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| Termana | smoku, meh, they were in violation, it's their problem. Looks like they released the source now though for the kernel? | 18:23 |
| smoku | vlj, with kernel build system I do not have to resort to breaking my system. ;-) make CROSS_COMPILE=arm-none-linux-gnueabi- is enough | 18:23 |
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| smoku | I just wonder whether rpmbuild has similar feature | 18:23 |
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| vlj | it's not in the man smoku so I doubt it | 18:24 |
| smoku | Termana, yup. but I'm not sure whether these are complete sources. so far nobody was able to boot Streak using Dell released sources | 18:25 |
| vlj | smoku : you can however modify spec files | 18:25 |
| vlj | maybe if you add some CROSS_COMPILE="..." after %make | 18:26 |
| vlj | or | 18:26 |
| vlj | http://jaeger.morpheus.net/linux/cross-compiler.html | 18:26 |
| vlj | try make ARCH=armv7 CROSS-COMPILE='..' | 18:27 |
| vlj | in spec file | 18:27 |
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| vlj | if it works you can add something in prjconf to automate the stuff in OBS | 18:27 |
| CosmoHill | I've got a .spec file somewhere that has different insturctions for x86, ppc and sparc | 18:27 |
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| smoku | vlj, I will try this. thanks for the hint :) | 18:28 |
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| th0br0 | smoku: use %if 's | 18:28 |
| vlj | smoku : http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~hobbsk/kernel-compilation-tutorial-en/steps.html | 18:29 |
| vlj | --target=armv7 should work with rpmbuild according to this site | 18:29 |
| CosmoHill | http://download.bluesquarelinux.co.uk/felix/SPECS/binutils.spec | 18:29 |
| CosmoHill | hope this helps a bit | 18:29 |
| smoku | CosmoHill, looks like it. thanks :) | 18:30 |
| CosmoHill | i wrote it many moons ago but my server hasn't crashed yet :) | 18:30 |
| vlj | by the way | 18:30 |
| vlj | is there a armv9 arch in gcc ? | 18:30 |
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| vlj | smoku: rpmbuild --target=armv7 works | 18:34 |
| smoku | vlj, baka me :/ | 18:35 |
| smoku | i should go straight to rpmbuild --help ;-) instead of bugging you hee | 18:35 |
| vlj | but it will perhaps use your gcc instead of code sourcery gcc | 18:36 |
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| ScottishDuck | there isn't a -march=armv9 yet | 18:37 |
| ScottishDuck | but there is -mcpu=arm9 | 18:37 |
| CosmoHill | what's the difference? | 18:38 |
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| ScottishDuck | dunno | 18:38 |
| ScottishDuck | as usual the gcc documentation makes little or no sense | 18:38 |
| vlj | arm9 == cortex-a9 ? | 18:39 |
| ScottishDuck | nonono | 18:39 |
| ScottishDuck | wait | 18:39 |
| ScottishDuck | there is -mcpu=cortex-a9 | 18:39 |
| ScottishDuck | that would be it :) | 18:39 |
| CosmoHill | or a very misleading name | 18:39 |
| ScottishDuck | oh yeah, gcc | 18:39 |
| ScottishDuck | can't really trust logic | 18:40 |
| CosmoHill | could meego be compiled with ICC? | 18:40 |
| vlj | why not ? | 18:40 |
| ali1234 | arm9 has nothing to do with armv9 | 18:40 |
| ali1234 | arm9 is actually armv5 | 18:41 |
| vlj | you need rpmbuild to support icc ;) | 18:41 |
| vlj | ali1234: hi | 18:41 |
| vlj | I need your help | 18:41 |
| ali1234 | arm11 is armv6 | 18:41 |
| ali1234 | and cortex is armv7 | 18:41 |
| smoku | CosmoHill, -march uses features specific to processor. -mcpu optimises for given processor but does not use features specific to one. | 18:41 |
| CosmoHill | ali1234: okay there is no way that could possibly confuse people | 18:41 |
| ali1234 | except the cortexm1 which is armv6 | 18:41 |
| vlj | ali1234: can you check if these rpms contains sse3 code ? http://download.obs.maemo.org/home:/vljn/MeeGo_1.0_Core/i686/ | 18:42 |
| ali1234 | sure | 18:42 |
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| * CosmoHill wonders if running LZMA on a P3 would be considered cruel | 18:45 | |
| vlj | processors never suffer | 18:45 |
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| ScottishDuck | Liking Parallels 6 | 18:47 |
| ScottishDuck | really nice performance when compiling right now | 18:47 |
| CosmoHill | ooo sweet | 18:48 |
| ali1234 | vlj: http://pastebin.com/gjVP7qg9 | 18:48 |
| vlj | (maybe sse 3 instructions are guarded) | 18:48 |
| CosmoHill | I have an email, hovered over the address and it gave me an option to view on a map | 18:48 |
| vlj | ali1234: and it does not run without ssse 3 processor ? | 18:48 |
| ali1234 | don't know | 18:48 |
| vlj | is there a way to try ? | 18:49 |
| ScottishDuck | Compared to parallels 5, my VM seems to run a lot closer to host performance, while at the same time not causing my system to freeze up | 18:49 |
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| ali1234 | vlj: qemu can hide ssse3 instructions from guest | 18:49 |
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| vlj | ali1234: you mean I can't test with qemu as it will "replace" ssse3 instructions ? | 18:50 |
| ali1234 | no | 18:50 |
| ali1234 | i mean qemu can hide ssse3 instructions from the guest | 18:51 |
| vlj | err...how can I make it hide these instructions ? | 18:51 |
| Termana | That's not exactly the way it works. | 18:51 |
| Termana | vlj, disable kvm (-no-kvm I think) and use -cpu, making sure your emulating a cpu that has no SSSE3 instructions | 18:53 |
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| ali1234 | vlj: http://www.linux-kvm.org/page/Tuning_KVM | 18:53 |
| vlj | thx | 18:53 |
| ali1234 | don't disable kvm, that will just make it super slow | 18:54 |
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| ali1234 | by default kvm won't emulate ssse3, for compatibility | 18:54 |
| vlj | ok | 18:54 |
| ali1234 | rather, it won't make it visible to the guest | 18:54 |
| ali1234 | there is no emulation involved here | 18:54 |
| vlj | is there a way to know what is %{optflag} in meego ? | 18:55 |
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| vlj | ali1234: should I run a stock meego 1.0.1 image for that ? | 18:57 |
| ali1234 | i don't know | 18:57 |
| vlj | ali1234: where did your computer crash when running Meego image ? | 18:57 |
| ali1234 | it never crashed | 18:57 |
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| vlj | ? | 18:58 |
| vlj | but it fails somewhere ? | 18:58 |
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| ali1234 | i don't know where it fails | 18:58 |
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| ali1234 | nobody does | 18:59 |
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| ali1234 | unless they do | 18:59 |
| vlj | I mean, you got a command line or ...? | 18:59 |
| lcuk | MISSING: 1 humping dog usb stick. last seen attached to the side of my laptop. | 18:59 |
| lcuk | hmm | 18:59 |
| * CosmoHill blinks | 19:00 | |
| ali1234 | i got nothing | 19:00 |
| CosmoHill | is it in your trousers? | 19:00 |
| ali1234 | i got a black screen with a flashing white cursor in the top left | 19:00 |
| lcuk | CosmoHill, no | 19:01 |
| CosmoHill | your other trousers? | 19:01 |
| lcuk | no i think i am going ot have to leave some food out for it | 19:02 |
| CosmoHill | wouldn't a soft toy work more | 19:02 |
| CosmoHill | you did say it was humping, not hungry | 19:02 |
| th0br0 | lcuk: let's start the game! | 19:02 |
| th0br0 | Who stole the stick from the usb port? CosmoHill stole the stick from the usb port! | 19:03 |
| CosmoHill | it looks like my ssh session is winking at me :o | 19:03 |
| CosmoHill | nate@blue[1043]:/mount/raid/clfs-builds $ time (lzma -v clfs-dev.tar ;) | 19:03 |
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| lcuk | th0br0, that won't work, he will never admit to it | 19:05 |
| th0br0 | :D | 19:05 |
| lcuk | and tracy said I cannot wipe the stuff on her other usb stick | 19:06 |
| * lcuk rummages for others | 19:06 | |
| CosmoHill | I mearly borrowed it for an extended period of time without the owners prior consent | 19:06 |
| CosmoHill | http://gillanmobi.blogspot.com/2010/08/all-phones-are-equal-just-some-are-more.html | 19:09 |
| CosmoHill | an interesting read | 19:09 |
| CosmoHill | plus I hope to be getting a computer off him this afternoon :D | 19:09 |
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| amjad | ok have a basic question, i have build meego-netbook-mtf-image using mic-image-creator and ks from perview ,with format=livecd burned it to usb and when i try to boot on my emachine netbook (n450 atom), it gives me the black screen of death, should i file a bug for this?? | 19:10 |
| CosmoHill | try init 3 | 19:12 |
| CosmoHill | also what graphics card do you have? | 19:12 |
| amjad | ok | 19:12 |
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| smoku | CosmoHill, I think the big failure in this post is still thinking of these devices in terms of 'phone' | 19:13 |
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| CosmoHill | that is a good point | 19:13 |
| smoku | surely it can make calls. but there are cars with built-in GSM module. are these phones too? | 19:14 |
| smoku | I will pick you up tommorow at 8 with my phone. | 19:14 |
| th0br0 | :d | 19:14 |
| th0br0 | that is a fairly interesting idea | 19:15 |
| CosmoHill | so instead of seeing it as a phone with lots of features | 19:15 |
| CosmoHill | it's rather a multimedia device with a phone as a feature | 19:15 |
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| lcuk | smoku, yes, but if you think side talking a taco phone was bad, imagine trying it with a prius | 19:15 |
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| smoku | there are netbooks with built-in GSM module. but I haven't hear anyone to complain that they are too big to hold by the head to talk | 19:15 |
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| ali1234 | well only because it's impossible to make phone calls on laptop gsm modules | 19:17 |
| amjad | i got intels pineview graphics card | 19:17 |
| CosmoHill | that should work | 19:18 |
| smoku | ali1234, not supported != impossible ;-) | 19:20 |
| ali1234 | impossible unless you can write your own radio rom for one of them | 19:21 |
| ali1234 | and considering they are mostly MSM based, that seems unlikely | 19:21 |
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| ali1234 | a carphone is also pretty obviously not a smartphone | 19:23 |
| th0br0 | but if that carphone included a touchdisplay + some good cpu ... :D | 19:23 |
| ali1234 | then it still wouldn't be a smartphone | 19:23 |
| th0br0 | what, however, if someone desined a carphone like a smartphone just with some cord connecting it to the car for antenna + power ? :D | 19:24 |
| ali1234 | still nobody would buy it | 19:24 |
| ali1234 | except for very rich people | 19:24 |
| th0br0 | that's not the point here, is it? | 19:24 |
| ali1234 | yeah it is | 19:24 |
| smoku | it's a cool smartphone that carries you around, instead of you carry it around | 19:25 |
| ali1234 | the point here is it is pointless trying to come up with names for things that nobody is ever going to buy, especially when names already exist | 19:25 |
| lcuk | I tohught the major point of the IVI was to get meego smarts into a car | 19:25 |
| lcuk | to allow this sort of stuff? | 19:25 |
| ali1234 | yeah it's called IVI | 19:25 |
| ali1234 | and yeah, nobody is going to buy it | 19:25 |
| ali1234 | except for rich people with more money than sense | 19:25 |
| lcuk | not to retro fit | 19:25 |
| lcuk | but it will end up in manufacturer modesl | 19:26 |
| lcuk | if not, there is no point at all? | 19:26 |
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| lcuk | models * | 19:26 |
| th0br0 | ali1234: if it gets cheap enough, families with kids might be interested in it, too | 19:26 |
| ali1234 | it will end up as an optional extra that nobody buys cos it adds 50% to the cost of the car | 19:26 |
| th0br0 | and i, personally, think that it shouldn't be that expensive. | 19:26 |
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| ali1234 | but the thing is, why do you need a smartphone built in to your car when every member of your family is already carrying at least one smartphone, and some have two? | 19:27 |
| lcuk | mainproblem with aftermarked headrest computers (or any carputer) | 19:27 |
| lcuk | is wiring the damn things in for power | 19:27 |
| SwedeMike | would be nice to have a proper display for that smartphone anyway... remote display to it (or standard cradle) would be nice | 19:27 |
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| ali1234 | the kind of people who are rich enough and savvy enough to actually want something like this, don't need it because they already have more tech than they need | 19:28 |
| ali1234 | but hey, this is just idle speciulation | 19:28 |
| ali1234 | we'll find out soon enough | 19:28 |
| * CosmoHill has a tape player and an FM radio that kinda works | 19:28 | |
| lcuk | I still have a lsot usb stick | 19:29 |
| lcuk | lost | 19:29 |
| * lcuk needs new fingers | 19:29 | |
| vlj | ali1234: maybe IVI is just for gps | 19:29 |
| lcuk | its for webbrowsing on the move | 19:29 |
| lcuk | whilst you are cruising | 19:29 |
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| lcuk | didn't you see the video! | 19:30 |
| th0br0 | on your big space cruise ship! | 19:30 |
| vlj | I mean, instead of having a poor interface for gps, why not having a device that can play music, handle gps, things like that ? | 19:30 |
| vlj | but I won't bet too much on the ivi declinaison for sure | 19:30 |
| lcuk | vlj, actually more difficult than you think | 19:30 |
| lcuk | real world clickers and buttons on a car are vital | 19:30 |
| lcuk | you can operate without looking | 19:30 |
| ali1234 | regardless, smartphone was well defined when the iphone came out: you can install apps, it has either keyboard or touchscreen, it can make phone calls, and it fits in your pocket | 19:30 |
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| lcuk | transfering that to a touch screen is a bit hmmmish | 19:31 |
| vlj | I wonder why the tablet ux is not coming | 19:31 |
| leinir | after being given a ride in a prius the other week, yeah, touch screens and cars are not the best mix ;) | 19:31 |
| * lcuk had a tablet ux in 2009 :P | 19:31 | |
| vlj | I mean the official meego tablet ux | 19:31 |
| CosmoHill | windows xp tablet edition ftw | 19:31 |
| vlj | it's deeply hidden in some nokia/intel labs | 19:31 |
| * CosmoHill is joking | 19:32 | |
| lcuk | CosmoHill, just making the X bigger does not make the UX better :P | 19:32 |
| leinir | CosmoHill: Good, i was about to get out my bitch-slapping implements ;D | 19:32 |
| lcuk | still having to reach to top right to close a window on a tablet is fail | 19:32 |
| lcuk | same goes for other things ;) | 19:32 |
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| vlj | I hope that the future N9 won't be blocked as motorola droid x | 19:33 |
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| leinir | My guess is it'll be as locked as the N900... meaning roughly not at all ;) | 19:34 |
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| vlj | because N97, N8... are | 19:35 |
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| vlj | you can't install what you want on these devices | 19:35 |
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| leinir | vlj: you're comparing with the wrong devices ;) | 19:35 |
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| vlj | well they are smartphone | 19:35 |
| vlj | they compete against android stuff | 19:35 |
| leinir | You should be comparing with the Maemo based N900 and how that works, as opposed to the Symbian based devices :) | 19:36 |
| lcuk | i fail to see why they should be competitors in the first place | 19:36 |
| ali1234 | not only that but they are real products, unlike the n900 and all the other nits which are basically prototypes you can buy | 19:36 |
| lcuk | if meego is built right, it will run on all of them | 19:36 |
| lcuk | so more devices out there, more potential installation candidates | 19:36 |
| kirma | leinir: if it's anything what they were projecting for maemo 6, it's locked or open on ones' choosing, but some things might be done only on closed version | 19:36 |
| ali1234 | lcuk aftermarket installs do not make nokia any money | 19:36 |
| lcuk | meego is not a nokia initiative. | 19:37 |
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| ali1234 | further more you won't legally be able to copy the nokia closed components from their meego phones | 19:37 |
| lcuk | if the community wants to make it run on things, it will eventually do so | 19:37 |
| ali1234 | and if you think there won't be any closed bits on nokia's meego phone, you're insane | 19:37 |
| vlj | well nokia closed bits are maybe not nokia's ones | 19:38 |
| lcuk | :) | 19:38 |
| kirma | some clarity in transfer of features from maemo 6 to meego/harmattan would be welcome... well, maybe in couple days | 19:38 |
| vlj | with nexus one you have almost any components : gpu drivers, kernel sources... | 19:38 |
| vlj | you can install debian on it if you want | 19:38 |
| vlj | and people don't have to hack their device to get root access | 19:39 |
| vlj | that's basically like a computer with windows on it | 19:39 |
| vlj | you can install linux if you want, you're not tied with Microsoft or PC manufacturer | 19:39 |
| vlj | it would be nice to have the same for smartphone too | 19:40 |
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| vlj | what a shame that you have to find some hack to get root access on android | 19:41 |
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| lcuk | what a shame that once you have root access your linux application takes immense work to run on the ui | 19:42 |
| microlith | vlj: they can install debian, yes, but get no graphics as there's no X driver for the chipset | 19:43 |
| microlith | or like lcuk said | 19:43 |
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| fathi | Stskeeps: 14 packages ftbfs on armelv7 | 19:44 |
| smoku | microlith, which chipset? | 19:44 |
| ali1234 | the baseline meego will be to the meego on a real device what debian is to maemo 5 | 19:45 |
| microlith | smoku: qualcomm's graphics chip, I don't know of any X drivers for it, only Android. | 19:45 |
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| smoku | microlith, check CodeAurora MSM/QSD Linux Enablement project - they have X.Org drivers for Quallcom chip | 19:46 |
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| microlith | I see the hits in google, but their site seems to be down | 19:47 |
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| smoku | yes. it's down for a few hours. (that's why I couldn't give direct link) | 19:47 |
| microlith | interesting | 19:48 |
| microlith | does it have any official support, or is it all reverse engineering? | 19:48 |
| smoku | HTC-Linux.org is using this driver to run full Ubuntu on HTC HD2 | 19:48 |
| lcuk | my twitter ponderment about innovation brought a curious response | 19:48 |
| ali1234 | codeaurora only had driver for MSM and not QSD last time we had this conversation | 19:48 |
| smoku | CodeAurora is a forum which funding member is... Qualcomm | 19:48 |
| lcuk | RT @cscoobing How about a self straining tea bag? Programmed to brew for so long then screw itself into a ball and drop over the cup into the saucer. | 19:48 |
| microlith | ali1234: I'm not up on the differences there | 19:49 |
| lcuk | RT @cscoobing We could try tea bags made from heat sensitive redacting long chain molecules. It's getting the timing right that's the tricky bit. | 19:49 |
| ali1234 | microlith: msm is their old chipset in things like htc kaiser and g1, qsd is the brand new chipset in things like dell streak | 19:49 |
| microlith | ahh, different chipset lines | 19:49 |
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| microlith | yeah I thought that was the case | 19:49 |
| ali1234 | also i'm pretty sure ubuntu on hd2 is using framebuffer X due to no working 3d driver | 19:50 |
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| ali1234 | but i would have to check that to be sure | 19:50 |
| lcuk | whats the best use of 3d in a UI? | 19:51 |
| ali1234 | not that it matters: framebuffer is perfectly fine for any OS that isn't filled with fancy 3d effects for no reason | 19:51 |
| microlith | best use of hardware 3D is to accelerate 2D rendering :) | 19:52 |
| ali1234 | lcuk: i have only ever seen one use of 3d that is actually good, and that is desktop zooming in compiz, which stole it from OS X | 19:52 |
| ali1234 | the only other thing it gets used for is pointless and slow transition effects | 19:52 |
| lcuk | ali1234, you mean like maemo and liqbase for that matter has? | 19:53 |
| smoku | ali1234, stealing removes things. this was merely copied ;P | 19:53 |
| vlj_ | meego netbook ux is using opengl | 19:53 |
| vlj_ | android ux too I think | 19:54 |
| * lcuk wants to think outside the box | 19:54 | |
| lcuk | literally | 19:54 |
| microlith | do any current mobile chipsets even support 2D drawing acceleration? | 19:54 |
| smoku | lcuk, the best use of 3D in UI is 2D ;-) mainly hardware accelerated alpha blending. | 19:54 |
| th0br0 | vlj_: uh no | 19:54 |
| lcuk | indeed smoku | 19:54 |
| th0br0 | android doesn't use opengl for ui unfortunately | 19:54 |
| vlj_ | microlith: if only there was a mobile api ;) | 19:55 |
| lcuk | but even that has problems | 19:55 |
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| vlj_ | you sure ? | 19:55 |
| th0br0 | i think so | 19:55 |
| th0br0 | i know that they wanted to do it initially | 19:55 |
| vlj_ | the fade in fade out effect are ...fluid ? | 19:55 |
| th0br0 | vlj_: http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=6914 | 19:55 |
| * microlith sets up ubuntu + meego SDKs on his macbook | 19:55 | |
| smoku | the point is that for most people OpenGL == 3D, which in fact OpenGL consist of fairly large set of 2D operations. | 19:55 |
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| th0br0 | vlj_: but yeah, they did a great job at all the calculation / response stuff ... performance wise | 19:56 |
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| vlj_ | smoku: in fact opengl is rather a 3D api, but the lack of standard 2D api make it a de facto standard for 2D operations | 19:57 |
| vlj_ | 2D is a special case of 3D anyway | 19:59 |
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| vlj_ | ali1234: qemu does work with Meego | 20:05 |
| vlj_ | i can log to init 3 without issue | 20:05 |
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| vlj_ | how can I enable net connexion in meego from qemu ? | 20:19 |
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| thiago_home | done | 20:21 |
| * thiago_home uploads his votes to the meego conf | 20:21 | |
| Stskeeps | it's a very freeing feeling when it's done :P | 20:21 |
| thiago_home | yeah | 20:22 |
| thiago_home | now I have 3 demos to write for my Tuesday presentation | 20:22 |
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| lcuk | thiago_home, you @london? | 20:23 |
| thiago_home | yep | 20:23 |
| CosmoHill | oo | 20:24 |
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| thiago_home | lcuk: you? | 20:24 |
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| CosmoHill | what's this about london? | 20:28 |
| CosmoHill | found it | 20:29 |
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| lcuk | thiago_home, no, communication issue with collabora admins meant my request wasnt processed. | 20:30 |
| lbt | london? | 20:31 |
| lcuk | lbt nokiaworld | 20:31 |
| lbt | ah... | 20:31 |
| lcuk | and the nokiadevelopers doofer | 20:31 |
| lbt | shiny | 20:31 |
| CosmoHill | lbt: http://events.nokia.com/developersummit2010 | 20:32 |
| * Mat_Matan now playing real electro : www.youtube.com/watch?v=xh-vk0DaERE | 20:32 | |
| ali1234 | lcuk the zooming in maemo is not much like the zooming in compiz | 20:32 |
| * CosmoHill finds a pic of thiago | 20:33 | |
| lcuk | ali1234, show me a vid of what you mean then plz | 20:33 |
| vlj_ | ali1234: Meego runs on my qemu-kvm -cpu athlon ... | 20:33 |
| ali1234 | lcuk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2b4eyBp4oQ | 20:34 |
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| vlj_ | if you put "init 3" at the end of boot option it should run on your hardware ali1234 | 20:35 |
| vlj_ | I would like a "test case" where non ssse3 cpu fails to run | 20:36 |
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| sofar | 20:41 | |
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| ali1234 | seems windows 7 has desktop zooming too | 20:41 |
| lcuk | windows 95 had it too | 20:43 |
| ali1234 | no, windows 95 had that crap magnifier app | 20:43 |
| CosmoHill | like people needed to zoom on 800x600 | 20:43 |
| ali1234 | but windows 3.1 had that | 20:43 |
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| lcuk | CosmoHill, sure | 20:44 |
| lcuk | some folks do | 20:44 |
| ali1234 | anyway, doing it at the compositor level means it works with all applications (not just mozilla) and means that you can seamlessly zoom in and out without having to load up another program first (like on windows 95) | 20:45 |
| ali1234 | so there is an actual benefit here | 20:45 |
| ali1234 | it's the only example though | 20:45 |
| ali1234 | it's not even very useful on a phone, where everything has to be huge anyway because it is a touch interface | 20:46 |
| smoku | BTW, was compiz considered for MeeGo? | 20:47 |
| ali1234 | i doubt it | 20:47 |
| ali1234 | well, maybe netbook :) | 20:47 |
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| Xaphania | HellOlAloHallOhayo.. I HI.. | 20:58 |
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| CosmoHill | hi | 21:00 |
| ScottishDuck | lol compiz | 21:00 |
| ScottishDuck | it's so unnecessary | 21:00 |
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| sofar | compiz for meego was never an option | 21:05 |
| CosmoHill | isn't compiz kinda heavy for a netbook? | 21:05 |
| sofar | back then, we're talking moblin 2.0 timeframe | 21:06 |
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| sofar | there were only 2 integrated desktops with compositing support really | 21:06 |
| sofar | xfce4, and gnome | 21:06 |
| sofar | gnome was way too heavy for our purposes | 21:06 |
| sofar | so, me and arjan did a prototype 5 second boot with xfce4 | 21:07 |
| CosmoHill | I made a distro with xfce once :) | 21:07 |
| sofar | I still work on the xfce4 project... and use it daily | 21:07 |
| CosmoHill | was this meantioned on Phornix as it rings a bell? | 21:07 |
| sofar | I'm the current resident xfce4 server admin/bofh | 21:07 |
| sofar | prolly | 21:07 |
| CosmoHill | sofar: http://bluesquarelinux.co.uk/2007/11/xfce-build-11/ | 21:08 |
| sofar | http://lwn.net/Articles/299483/ | 21:09 |
| CosmoHill | we have differnerent standards, you want it to boot within 5 seconds | 21:09 |
| CosmoHill | and I just want it to boot | 21:09 |
| sofar | compiz itself would annihilate a 5 second boot on an eee901 | 21:10 |
| sofar | due to the slow ssd | 21:10 |
| sofar | I think we had a readahead footprint of just 45MB | 21:10 |
| sofar | nowadays, meego netbook pulls in 124mb | 21:10 |
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| lbt | any drupal experts around? | 21:23 |
| marnanel` | I dd'd the 1.0.90.1.20100907.1 release onto a microSD card and put it in my N900, and I flashed the kernel with the image from the same release. When I try to boot, it tries to mount the emmc as the root partition using ext2, ext3, and cramfs, and then gives up. I can mount the microSD card on a laptop and I see all the contents I'd expect there. Any clues as to what I'm doing wrong here? | 21:23 |
| lbt | I need to just identify some quick performance tweaks | 21:23 |
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| ali1234 | marnanel`: make sure to put the back on the n900 or it wont work | 21:25 |
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| marnanel` | ali1234: ha, silly me. Thank you. | 21:27 |
| CosmoHill | sofar: good read | 21:30 |
| Stskeeps | we should really put a warning in kernel "if you see this message, check your back cover.." | 21:33 |
| Stskeeps | ;) | 21:33 |
| ali1234 | or you could... disable the cover check | 21:33 |
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| ali1234 | then it would work even with the cover removed :) | 21:33 |
| lcuk | hey Stskeeps have you seen SHR running on n900? | 21:34 |
| lcuk | (the open embedded OS) | 21:34 |
| Stskeeps | no, but if it's anything like what openmoko had, i prefer not to throw my n900 out the window in direct anger | 21:34 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 21:34 |
| ali1234 | judging from the screen shots it looks more like GPE meets android | 21:35 |
| lcuk | well the vid certainly looks good | 21:35 |
| lcuk | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywkWbb_BetI its fast and got compatability with existing app | 21:35 |
| lcuk | s | 21:35 |
| lcuk | the guy shows numpty physics :D | 21:35 |
| * b-man` is jumping with excitement | 21:35 | |
| b-man` | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=813965#post813965 !!!!!!!!! | 21:36 |
| ali1234 | i lol @ post 2 | 21:36 |
| ali1234 | didn't they even read the text they are quoting? | 21:36 |
| b-man` | i'm not surprised. it's tmo :) | 21:37 |
| ali1234 | hmm actually i think they added the quote later and "nwm" is typo for "nvm" | 21:39 |
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| * b-man` isn't going to be the first to test it though xD | 21:42 | |
| b-man` | i learned the hard way not to mess with the bootloader with my N800 | 21:43 |
| Stskeeps | b-man`: it's non destructive | 21:43 |
| Stskeeps | b-man`: you flash it as a kernel | 21:43 |
| Stskeeps | nolo still runs and then loads it | 21:43 |
| b-man` | hmmm | 21:43 |
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| * b-man` may test it :) | 21:44 | |
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| Stskeeps | on n800 there's no port yet though | 21:45 |
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| b-man` | has this been verified to run? | 21:45 |
| Stskeeps | the n900 one? | 21:45 |
| b-man` | yeah | 21:45 |
| Stskeeps | yes.. | 21:46 |
| Stskeeps | P | 21:46 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 21:46 |
| * b-man` tests it | 21:46 | |
| * b-man` hopes his N900 doesn't blow up in his face | 21:46 | |
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| lcuk | is the new replacement kernel compatible with fcam? | 21:49 |
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| b-man` | hmm | 21:56 |
| b-man` | it would be interesting to enable u-boot's bootmenu | 21:57 |
| ali1234 | b-man`: i hope you're not using those bins on my site | 21:57 |
| b-man` | nope | 21:57 |
| ali1234 | u-boot's bootmenu? | 21:57 |
| ali1234 | just press a key to interrupt boot, you now have full console :) | 21:57 |
| b-man` | ah, ty :) | 21:57 |
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| Stskeeps | can we do stuff like typing sd1 or something? | 21:58 |
| Stskeeps | (how much of keyboard is functional?) | 21:58 |
| ali1234 | the keyboard is 100% functional | 21:58 |
| Stskeeps | even fn? | 21:58 |
| ali1234 | yes | 21:58 |
| Stskeeps | oh, cool | 21:58 |
| ali1234 | even shift, even though it has no purpose | 21:58 |
| Stskeeps | there's aliases right? | 21:59 |
| ali1234 | aliases? | 21:59 |
| ali1234 | you mean like, you can define commands? | 21:59 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 21:59 |
| ali1234 | if so, yes | 21:59 |
| Stskeeps | i'm pondering if we can add stuff like int1 ext1,2,3 for a simple enough bootmenu | 21:59 |
| Stskeeps | so it looks for ext2 for second partition uimage | 22:00 |
| ali1234 | set an environment variable to something like "cmd1; cmd2; cmd3" | 22:00 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 22:00 |
| ali1234 | then "run <variable>" | 22:00 |
| b-man` | hmm | 22:02 |
| Stskeeps | we didn't get internal mmc working did we? | 22:02 |
| ali1234 | i never tried it | 22:03 |
| Stskeeps | btw, do you do watchdogs? | 22:03 |
| ali1234 | i'm not sure about that either | 22:03 |
| ali1234 | u-boot claims to handle them | 22:03 |
| ali1234 | i'm not sure if it handles all of them though | 22:04 |
| Stskeeps | you're in r&d mode? | 22:04 |
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| ali1234 | usually, yes | 22:04 |
| Stskeeps | k | 22:04 |
| ali1234 | it's easy enough to test that one though :) | 22:04 |
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| Stskeeps | all 'initial' uboot env come from source i guess? | 22:07 |
| ali1234 | yes all built in | 22:07 |
| ali1234 | and because it can't write to onenand, you can't edit it without editing source | 22:08 |
| ali1234 | however, you can source scripts from sd card, if they exist | 22:08 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 22:08 |
| Stskeeps | i presume the button press stops autoloading scripts too? | 22:08 |
| ali1234 | yes | 22:08 |
| ali1234 | well | 22:09 |
| ali1234 | the autoloading script is the only thing it stops :) | 22:09 |
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| ali1234 | CONFIG_BOOTCOMMAND to be specific | 22:09 |
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| ali1234 | you can put some script into CONFIG_PREBOOT and they run before the countdown (and therefore cannot be stopped) | 22:10 |
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| Stskeeps | why is it uboot can't load a zimage btw? | 22:10 |
| ali1234 | well it can | 22:11 |
| Stskeeps | oh? | 22:11 |
| ali1234 | basically the answer is "because u-boot authors thought uImage was better) | 22:11 |
| b-man` | heh | 22:11 |
| marnanel` | so, I flashed the meego kernel instead of just loading it. and I wanted to flash another kernel, but there's no moment when I turn on when the flasher notices there's a device on the USB connection. Do I have to cold flash now? | 22:12 |
| ali1234 | there was a long mailing list thread about it | 22:12 |
| ali1234 | there is no reason why u-boot can't load zImage, other than the code to do it doesn't exist - it would be trivial to add it though | 22:12 |
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| ali1234 | eg http://www.mail-archive.com/u-boot@lists.denx.de/msg37682.html | 22:13 |
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| ali1234 | in fact, u-boot likes to have all it's files wrapped in that uImage format | 22:13 |
| b-man` | ali1234: stupid question, but how do you apply padding to u-boot.bin exactly? :) | 22:13 |
| * b-man` is kinda new to u-boot | 22:13 | |
| ali1234 | scripts too. you can't load them from a text file, you have to run them through mkimage first | 22:13 |
| ali1234 | b-man`: i have a python script to do it | 22:14 |
| b-man` | ah | 22:14 |
| ali1234 | http://pastebin.com/Ev9wMP4T | 22:14 |
| Stskeeps | ali1234: ok, so for images it's probably just best to add a uimage.. | 22:14 |
| b-man` | ali1234, thanks | 22:16 |
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| ali1234 | yeah. uImage is not so bad anyway | 22:16 |
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| * b-man` sees a lot of "switch -mcpu=cortex-a8 conflicts with -march= switch, assuming CPU feature set" warnings :S | 22:33 | |
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| b-man` | probably not a big deal | 22:33 |
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| ScottishDuck | if warnings were an issue then people wouldn't even use GCC :) | 22:34 |
| ali1234 | what compiler are you using? | 22:34 |
| b-man` | maemo sdk's gcc | 22:35 |
| b-man` | fremantle arm target | 22:35 |
| ali1234 | i used code sourcery :) | 22:36 |
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| ali1234 | make sure the scratchbox config isn't putting weird stuff into CFLAGS | 22:36 |
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| b-man` | ali1234, here's my gcc info: http://xceleo.pastebin.com/dBmFyWbP | 22:38 |
| ali1234 | doesn't mean a lot to me... | 22:39 |
| ali1234 | check environment too... | 22:39 |
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| ScottishDuck | 4.2.1? | 22:40 |
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| lcuk | looking at the maemo quake changelog ( http://maemo.org/packages/view/ioquake3/ ) | 22:42 |
| lcuk | * NOKIA: Enabled more aggressive optimization flags: -ffast-math -march=armv7-a -mcpu=cortex-a8 -mfpu=neon | 22:42 |
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| marnanel` | What does it mean if I've booted into MeeGo and the N900's yellow LED turns on, not flashing, and the screen goes black? It was running the MeeGo UX for about twenty seconds, and now it does this whenever I boot into it again. | 22:42 |
| lcuk | uses the same thing afaik | 22:42 |
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| rtyler | swc|666: curiously enough, the ubuntu netbook remix doesn't kill the fan like the meego image | 22:43 |
| Stskeeps | marnanel`: probably hitting our unreliable charging bug | 22:43 |
| * rtyler boggles | 22:43 | |
| marnanel` | Stskeeps: Oh dear. Do you know where I can read up about that? | 22:44 |
| swc|666 | rtyler, probably an acpi issue | 22:44 |
| * rtyler nogs | 22:44 | |
| * rtyler nods too | 22:44 | |
| rtyler | I guess I'll have to suck it up and use ubuntu | 22:44 |
| swc|666 | rtyler, see if you can get a recent lm_sensors on there maybe | 22:44 |
| * rtyler weeps | 22:44 | |
| b-man` | ali1234: yeah, march is trying to use '-march=armv5' | 22:44 |
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| rtyler | I wish there were builds for non-SSE3 machines | 22:45 |
| ali1234 | b-man`: just unset any environment stuff, or compile from outside scratchbox | 22:45 |
| Stskeeps | marnanel`: http://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=6091 | 22:45 |
| marnanel` | Stskeeps: lovely, thanks | 22:45 |
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| Stskeeps | marnanel`: i'd recommend booting into normal maemo | 22:46 |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, what is "SR 7361 and 7362"? | 22:47 |
| marnanel` | Stskeeps: and charging it that way? | 22:47 |
| lcuk | in the context of that fixed bug | 22:47 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: search meego-commits archive for 7361 and 7362 | 22:48 |
| Stskeeps | (submitrequest) | 22:48 |
| Stskeeps | (feel free to add to the meego glossary on wiki) | 22:49 |
| * marnanel` makes sure the battery is charging and then goes to make a cup of tea | 22:50 | |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, is there a database of the actual submit requests somewhere? | 22:53 |
| lcuk | if so, is it held on the meego servers? and will it one day get a public interface to browse/view | 22:53 |
| lcuk | because whilst the mail interface is cool to exist, if theres a database or front end to gather all info for one request it will be better | 22:54 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: that might come once BOSS is installed. | 22:54 |
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| lcuk | cool | 22:55 |
| lcuk | i am on the glossary atm | 22:56 |
| lcuk | http://wiki.meego.com/Glossary#S | 22:59 |
| lcuk | done, thanks for info Stskeeps | 22:59 |
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| Mat_Matan | good night | 23:01 |
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| lbt | any debian packagers about? | 23:16 |
| lbt | I could do with this: http://www.heiho.net/synctool/ being packaged up | 23:16 |
| lcuk | lbt the contrib folder has a debian package? | 23:17 |
| lcuk | is that not for the whole thing? | 23:17 |
| lcuk | synctool (4.6-1) UNRELEASED; urgency=low | 23:18 |
| lcuk | * Initial debian release | 23:18 |
| lcuk | -- Dennis Stam <dennis.stam@sara.nl> Wed, 14 Jul 2010 09:59:39 +0200 | 23:18 |
| lbt | ooh | 23:18 |
| lbt | I looked in apt and read all the docs | 23:18 |
| lcuk | :) winzip opens and shows all files! | 23:18 |
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| lcuk | i have gotten used to seeing folder trees easier ;) | 23:18 |
| lbt | heh.... I've not even dl'ed it yet ;) | 23:19 |
| lcuk | so how come you know you need it :P | 23:19 |
| lbt | I read the docs | 23:19 |
| lbt | it's what I was about to write | 23:19 |
| lcuk | ++ | 23:19 |
| lbt | rsync managed overlays | 23:19 |
| lbt | with git on the master... | 23:20 |
| lcuk | nice | 23:20 |
| lcuk | sorta what we discussed a while ago? | 23:20 |
| lbt | mmmm - don't remember... this is cluster admin stuff | 23:20 |
| lbt | concept may be the saem | 23:20 |
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| lcuk | yeah, it was wrt the heavy duty work having to rebuild from scratch for each build | 23:21 |
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| * lbt vaguely recalls | 23:22 | |
| lcuk | anyway glad you dont have to start from total scratch with this debian package! | 23:22 |
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| lcuk | lbt, technically synctool could "synctool copies * files to groups of machines in your home cluster " ;) | 23:24 |
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| Jaffa | Oooh, sounds like it could be useful for end-user files who use one machine at a time; but it could be desktop or laptop. | 23:25 |
| lbt | Jaffa: nah | 23:26 |
| lbt | I'm still looking for that one though | 23:26 |
| Jaffa | Doh :( | 23:26 |
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| lbt | I have "sync -to-laptop" and "sync -from-laptop" | 23:26 |
| * Jaffa 's best thought to date is some kind of automated unison with latest conflict revision. | 23:26 | |
| Jaffa | But not yet decided if it's better to use Firefox Sync or just do all of $HOME | 23:26 |
| lcuk | g/me has a defined need and usecase specifically for all this syncing and know it will require a cloud machine to operate properly | 23:27 |
| lbt | actually ... dropbox would work | 23:27 |
| lbt | but I'm not using it :) | 23:27 |
| lbt | I want http://wiki.debian.org/FreedomBox | 23:27 |
| * Jaffa has a couple of machines on the cloud, so that's not a problem. Including NFS for the home wired desktop to one of them hosted here | 23:27 | |
| lcuk | Jaffa, problem is | 23:27 |
| lcuk | you may have | 23:27 |
| lcuk | i have | 23:28 |
| lcuk | lbt does | 23:28 |
| lcuk | but most people dont | 23:28 |
| * lbt has ADSL down to 1.4 Mb/s atm :( | 23:28 | |
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| ali1234 | synctool sounds a bit like puppet | 23:28 |
| ali1234 | not that i ever used either of them | 23:28 |
| lbt | ah, lcuk that ^^ link plus a couple of others about providing services from home | 23:28 |
| lbt | ali1234: yeah... I use puppet... that's why I'm looking ;) | 23:29 |
| marnanel` | previously, when I had the "cannot open root device" problem during booting MeeGo on the N900, someone told me to boot with the back cover on, so I did, and it worked. But now I get that problem all the time, even with the back cover on. Is there another thing I should be checking? | 23:29 |
| lcuk | lbt, i have zapto.org :) | 23:29 |
| lcuk | i have had it for ages | 23:29 |
| lcuk | it requires configuration thats beyond many home users | 23:29 |
| lbt | ali1234: FAQ 2: http://www.heiho.net/synctool/FAQ.txt | 23:29 |
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| lcuk | which is where the paradigm breaks down | 23:29 |
| lcuk | if you want something usable by all+sundry | 23:29 |
| lbt | lcuk: that's why dropbox works ... it's 100% duh-compatible. | 23:29 |
| lcuk | i was thinking intelligent people actually ;) | 23:30 |
| ali1234 | well i must say that puppet seemed like overkill for what it does | 23:30 |
| lcuk | lbt | 23:30 |
| lcuk | ovi is getting close | 23:30 |
| lcuk | to being an all in one approach | 23:30 |
| lcuk | something that can be configured on day 1 | 23:31 |
| lbt | yeah.... but I'm sorry, I don't want my data on a cloud machine | 23:31 |
| lcuk | and useful throughout the lifecycle of your entire house | 23:31 |
| lcuk | understood | 23:31 |
| lcuk | but look @ facebook | 23:31 |
| lcuk | #prime example | 23:31 |
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| lcuk | lbt, also in some regards cloud gives something home only doesnt | 23:32 |
| lcuk | offsite backup! | 23:32 |
| * lcuk syncs sketches across multiple machines now | 23:32 | |
| lbt | I don't have a problem with cloud... | 23:32 |
| lcuk | but that should work for everything | 23:32 |
| lbt | I have a problem with data-ownership and control | 23:32 |
| lbt | I'd use ovi in a flash if I could migrate 100% to google and they'd erase my data | 23:33 |
| lbt | and vice-versa | 23:33 |
| lbt | but they won't | 23:33 |
| lbt | once my photos,emails go to google/ovi/yahoo.. they never relinquish them... ever. | 23:33 |
| lcuk | so | 23:34 |
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| lcuk | how would you document an open cloud | 23:34 |
| lcuk | err not document | 23:34 |
| lcuk | advertise etc | 23:34 |
| lcuk | would you pay for that? | 23:35 |
| lbt | http://yro.slashdot.org/story/10/08/15/2140209/Eben-Moglen-Calls-To-Free-the-Cloud | 23:35 |
| lcuk | would it be worth a company setting up to actively allow you to have your freedom for a monthly fee | 23:35 |
| lcuk | (and no, I don't think those 2 elements conflict) | 23:35 |
| lbt | *nod*... I don't have an answer | 23:36 |
| ali1234 | um why is that even necessary? | 23:36 |
| lcuk | gbg:D | 23:36 |
| ali1234 | i mean they already exist, it's called a hosting provider | 23:36 |
| lcuk | ali1234, well without it why has anyone got incentive for you to just squat on their servers? | 23:36 |
| lcuk | sure ali | 23:36 |
| lcuk | but setting that up is a not so trivial process | 23:36 |
| ali1234 | sure, but so what? nobody ever said freedom would be easy | 23:37 |
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| lcuk | of course, thats where the paid service comes into it :) | 23:38 |
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| ali1234 | but even then it already exists | 23:38 |
| lcuk | its just fodder anyway | 23:38 |
| ali1234 | someone was talking about one the other day | 23:38 |
| lcuk | sure, can I buy freedome from google or microsoft or yahoo or even facebook? | 23:38 |
| lcuk | -e | 23:38 |
| ali1234 | serive like dropbox, except it is encrypted | 23:38 |
| ali1234 | no, they're not selling it | 23:39 |
| lcuk | :) | 23:39 |
| ali1234 | https://spideroak.com/ | 23:39 |
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| lbt | http://ifolder.com/ifolder | 23:40 |
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| lbt | GPL2 | 23:40 |
| lbt | all of it | 23:40 |
| ali1234 | yes, there are loads of such softwares | 23:40 |
| lbt | not loads... | 23:41 |
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| lbt | well, not GPL | 23:41 |
| ali1234 | there is one that isn't quite so... maccy | 23:41 |
| lbt | sadly: "iFolder is written in C# and runs on the Mono .NET platform" | 23:42 |
| lbt | so I'm not bothering to learn yet-another-language just yet | 23:42 |
| ali1234 | http://www.sparkleshare.org/ | 23:43 |
| RST38h | lbt: And writing your own client in a real programming language is notan option? | 23:43 |
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| lbt | RST38h: no... too busy being a slave to MeeGo ;) | 23:43 |
| ali1234 | unfortunately looks like sparkleshare is also written in mono :( | 23:44 |
| lcuk | mono is fun! | 23:44 |
| lcuk | spread the word :D | 23:44 |
| * lcuk scratches | 23:44 | |
| lbt | yes, I saw that one too... it needs more work and mono's a "can't be bothered" | 23:44 |
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| RST38h | lbt: It takes human slaves? I thought humans were more of a dietary supplement... | 23:45 |
| lbt | RST38h: no... it chains them too | 23:45 |
| RST38h | Just use google docs or something... | 23:45 |
| lbt | argh | 23:45 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: Who said I wanted a solution for Aunt Bessie? I want a solution for *me* ;-p | 23:48 |
| Jaffa | They're discussing ARM and the future of computing on BBC Radio 4 right now. | 23:48 |
| Jaffa | Only just turned it on | 23:48 |
| Jaffa | (to check volume of alarm) | 23:48 |
| lcuk | Jaffa, sure, you do | 23:48 |
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| lcuk | but if us, the clever ones, can come up wit ha solution for all | 23:49 |
| lcuk | then we all benefit | 23:49 |
| * lbt wonders how meeo should recruit admins for services | 23:49 | |
| ali1234 | or we go crazy trying to make a one size fits all solution | 23:49 |
| lcuk | lbt, cat bells | 23:49 |
| lcuk | gets lots of meeos | 23:49 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: There're plenty of Linux users with desktops and laptops who want to stay in sync. | 23:49 |
| * lbt throws his 'g' key at lcuk | 23:49 | |
| lcuk | indeed jaffa | 23:49 |
| lcuk | but i want family oriented services | 23:49 |
| lcuk | so that everyones devices are covered | 23:49 |
| * Jaffa 's family is using Ubuntu laptops | 23:50 | |
| lbt | Jaffa: but rsync does it so well... | 23:50 |
| lcuk | Jaffa, when luke updates his contacts using hermes for x60 | 23:50 |
| lbt | goddam ... we just need a pyQt interface to rsync | 23:50 |
| lcuk | s60 | 23:50 |
| lcuk | from his facebook people | 23:50 |
| lcuk | etc | 23:50 |
| lbt | not that you'll be allowed to run it on a MeeGo device.... | 23:50 |
| Jaffa | lbt: ...ish. I've not tried it for (almost) all of $HOME | 23:50 |
| * lcuk wants it mostly for the family pinboard | 23:50 | |
| lbt | Jaffa: I actually have a small $HOME and sync selective bits of /everything | 23:51 |
| Jaffa | lbt: No, you'll (maybe) be allowed to run it on a(n open) MeeGo device, but you won't be able to call it "MeeGo compatible" ;-/ | 23:51 |
| lbt | I'm not done with that yet | 23:52 |
| Jaffa | lbt: interesting. I need to read up on Network Manager (eugh) et al to make sure it works on (certain) network connection establishmentism | 23:52 |
| lbt | We want MeeGo 'surrounds' ;).... to be part of the compliance | 23:52 |
| Jaffa | lbt: Indeed. Something that qgil seems to be pushing for. | 23:52 |
| Jaffa | lbt: Although there are lots of references in the thread to MeeGo Extras without any definition (AFAIK) about what it is. | 23:53 |
| lbt | yeah... I've been too busy setting the damn thing up to discuss it | 23:53 |
| lbt | yeah... it's misunderstood ... but in an OK way | 23:53 |
| sivu | damn obs | 23:53 |
| sivu | hard to layout the projects in a way that dependencies will be met | 23:54 |
| lbt | sivu: ? | 23:54 |
| sivu | lbt, when packages in project x depend on packages in y | 23:55 |
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| sivu | and y depends on z | 23:55 |
| lbt | *nod* sounds normal | 23:55 |
| sivu | and z depends on meego 1.0 | 23:55 |
| sivu | but y needs new packages from daily and meego 1.0 | 23:55 |
| lbt | you can add a path | 23:56 |
| Jaffa | Yay, Herman Hauser on this programme. | 23:56 |
| lbt | or, worst case, aggregate | 23:57 |
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| lbt | Jaffa: the skier? | 23:57 |
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| sivu | lbt, i am pretty happy with the setup currently | 23:57 |
| sivu | i have meego:1.0:core and backports which builds against core. then i have x which builds against backports. and x:y which builds against x etc | 23:58 |
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