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| slaine | evening all | 00:10 |
|---|---|---|
| CosmoHill | hey | 00:11 |
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| vgrade | vlj, for IEGD we created a tgz of the required files which was placed in the ks directory and we added post scripts to the ks to copy the files into the filesystem along with a new xorg.conf. | 00:33 |
| vgrade | I'm not sure if the legality of that approach as the tgz file was created from the IEGD exe driver | 00:34 |
| vgrade | I would need to read the license to see what we can redistribute the EMGD files | 00:34 |
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| vgrade | If we can then the best way will be to build a rpm with the required files on the community OBS | 00:35 |
| slaine | as far as I know the drivers aren't actually released yet and only available by signing an nda (hence why they where pulled from the repo) | 00:36 |
| slaine | so that would make redist impossible | 00:36 |
| slaine | unless you managed to get the pre section to ask the person to agree to the nda from the server and then downloaded the file directly and then used the post to process it | 00:37 |
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| vgrade | slaine, you missed , http://edc.intel.com/Software/Downloads/EMGD/ | 00:37 |
| slaine | clearly | 00:38 |
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| slaine | ah, still xorg 1.6 required | 00:38 |
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| slaine | so it's just a new version of the moblin driver | 00:39 |
| vgrade | slaine, from the pdf, it supports Meego Linux (1.7.99 kernel 2.6.33-rc2) | 00:40 |
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| vgrade | http://pastebin.com/5FZWf1sM, end user license | 00:41 |
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| slaine | so it dies | 00:41 |
| slaine | does even | 00:41 |
| slaine | lol | 00:41 |
| vgrade | which is disappointing as Meego has moved on somewhat since 2.6.33. I'm not sure but there may have been changes in 2.6.35 in DRI | 00:42 |
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| vgrade | anyway, must not complain | 00:43 |
| vgrade | this is progress | 00:43 |
| slaine | it's glacial though | 00:43 |
| slaine | I've had to turn away hardware suppliers 'cause they'd built their hardware around that chipset and there was no guarantee that we'd get driver support for our Fedora 12/13 based OS | 00:44 |
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| alt-route_ | Hi, I thought that meego would use telepathy-ring, but it seems that the meego-handset-dialer uses ofono directly.. | 00:47 |
| alt-route_ | I am a bit confused.. would telepathy ring continue to be used for managing calls? | 00:48 |
| vgrade | I agree, you would not want to base a business on GMA500 but there is a lot of potential MeeGo recruits using it | 00:48 |
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| slaine | indeed | 00:50 |
| slaine | as mentioned before, the sad thing is that it's a very capable setup, just hamstrung by all this IP crap | 00:51 |
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| vgrade | looking at the license it seems that a derivative work (ie tgz of relevant files) can be transfered to anyone 'provided such recipient agrees to be fully bound by the terms hereof' | 00:57 |
| slaine | Then I'd suggest getting the pre section of the rpm to display that and exit if they don't accept it | 00:58 |
| slaine | might make a buggery of a mic2 build though if the rpm is hanging there waiting for input, especially anything automated around mic2 | 00:59 |
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| vgrade | Does this mean I can now distribute images (derivative works) as long as I get the downloaded to agree to the the license before download? | 01:33 |
| vgrade | downloader | 01:34 |
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| CosmoHill | vgrade: like when you download the meego image for chrome on? | 01:39 |
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| vgrade | yes, but can I redistribute, how do I prove the downloder has accepted the EULA | 01:43 |
| CosmoHill | they read the EULA | 01:44 |
| CosmoHill | at the bottom they have "Accept" or "don't accept" | 01:44 |
| CosmoHill | first takes you do a secure download | 01:45 |
| CosmoHill | 2nd takes you to the home page | 01:45 |
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| CosmoHill | it's how Nvidia do it for their drivers | 01:54 |
| vgrade | when I downloaded the emgd drivers no questions were asked | 01:56 |
| CosmoHill | I'm watching people argue between XP and 7 in a linux channel :/ | 01:57 |
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| vgrade | so I'm wondering if I could distribute a MeeGo image for GMA500 netbooks which would only run after the EULA was accepted | 02:00 |
| CosmoHill | how would the chrome meego image know if I've accepted the EULA? | 02:01 |
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| vgrade | on booting the image, the EULA would be displayed and require an accept to continue the boot | 02:04 |
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| vgrade | I have downloded the emgd driver but cannot extract it until i accept the eula | 02:05 |
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| CosmoHill | ah | 02:06 |
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| devmod | Is there any sort of virtual keyboard for meego on netbooks? | 02:13 |
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| CosmoHill | night night | 03:05 |
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| hell | as i understand, now we have'nt any public build system for meego? | 08:01 |
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| bkrawal | which framework/package is used for desktop environment in MeeGo for IVI | 08:02 |
| bkrawal | hell: yes it is not | 08:02 |
| Kubuntiac | @ hell - I thought I heard that OpenSuse Build service builds for Meego? | 08:02 |
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| Stskeeps | hell, there's a community builder on the way (still getting published) | 08:03 |
| hell | Stskeeps: ah, ok. | 08:03 |
| Stskeeps | Kubuntiac: software, not instance :) | 08:03 |
| Stskeeps | published=polished | 08:03 |
| notslad | OpenSuSE builds for Meego would be *awesome* :^) | 08:04 |
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| Kubuntiac | Stskeeps: I don't quite get what you mean... | 08:05 |
| hell | Stskeeps: as i understand, i will simply wrote an Qt app on my host, and run it with exported DISPLAY, to watch how it looking on MeeGo? | 08:06 |
| Stskeeps | Kubuntiac: there's build.opensuse.org and then there's the software build.opensuse.org runs, which MeeGo community and project OBS also uses | 08:07 |
| hell | But, how i'll test some specific UI and screen rotating? | 08:07 |
| Stskeeps | hell: you'll have to look at the documentation for that, i just oke up :) | 08:07 |
| Stskeeps | woke | 08:07 |
| hell | i staring at http://wiki.meego.com/Hello_World_-_MeeGo_x86_development_on_Linux | 08:07 |
| Kubuntiac | Stskeeps: Ahhh, gotcha | 08:07 |
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| vilvo | anyone knows if I can have "run command"-dialog without starting terminal in meego? like alt-f2 in kde -> type command I want to run | 08:28 |
| vilvo | sure I created shortcut for starting terminal and start it from there but as task switching isn't the snappiest with many windows I'd like to do it without terminal if possible | 08:29 |
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| vlj | mornin | 11:02 |
| vlj | vgrade: so...are the new emgd working ? :) | 11:02 |
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| Stskeeps | i wish they'd publish rpms, make life easier.. | 11:02 |
| Jaffa | Morning, all | 11:03 |
| vlj | well it's not that hard to make a dkms compliant package | 11:03 |
| vlj | but actually is not as easy as installing rpm :) | 11:04 |
| vlj | +it | 11:04 |
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| Stskeeps | morn slaine | 11:13 |
| Stskeeps | slaine: seems like EMGD finally got released | 11:13 |
| slaine | morning Stskeeps | 11:14 |
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| slaine | http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/26/samsung-galaxy-tab-gets-video-preview-in-korea/ | 11:14 |
| slaine | oh dear, computer not doing what I tell it | 11:14 |
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| slaine | Stskeeps: yes, I was talking to vgrade last night and he pointed me to the page | 11:15 |
| arfoll | does the license allow us to make an rpm out of it? | 11:16 |
| slaine | that was what was being discussed | 11:17 |
| vlj | arfoll: I dont think so | 11:17 |
| vlj | well to make a rpm perhaps | 11:17 |
| vlj | but not making it on obs :) | 11:17 |
| arfoll | So i guess the best we can do is make a script that installs it | 11:18 |
| Stskeeps | just put the tarball next to the .k | 11:18 |
| Stskeeps | s | 11:18 |
| Stskeeps | we did that on joggler | 11:18 |
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| vlj | it would be nice to have dkms in meego too | 11:19 |
| vlj | so that when you update kernel, you don't end up with a black xorg | 11:19 |
| vlj | I encounter the same issue with nvidia chipset too, when upgrading kernel, the nvidia kernel module does not work | 11:20 |
| vlj | so I need to recompile it | 11:20 |
| vlj | would be great if it was automated | 11:20 |
| Stskeeps | i suppose you could technically do something with 'build' | 11:20 |
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| vlj | ? | 11:22 |
| vlj | what do you mean ? | 11:23 |
| Stskeeps | well, or just import kernel-netbook-devel and run a local rpmbuild.. | 11:23 |
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| vlj | yup but that is not obvious for people not accustomed with rpm building | 11:25 |
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| gizmomogwai | hello, | 12:06 |
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| gizmomogwai | i try to build a meego images for vbox or vmware from a kickstart file, everything seems ok, but when i boot the images in virtualbox or vmware i get vesamenu.c32: not a COM32R image. any idea what the problem is? | 12:07 |
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| daisy21 | hello, can someone tell me if when using the netbook image you get a default user experience ie just an xterm, clock....do I need to install something to get the fancy UX? | 12:30 |
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| daisy21 | anyone? | 12:32 |
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| Surfa | daisy21, yes | 12:37 |
| vilvo | daisy21: netbook image gives you fancy UX, it's very nice out of the box, I've been using it for work this week and am very happy with it | 12:37 |
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| vilvo | </ad> :) | 12:38 |
| Surfa | not saying that it's very fancy or extraordinarily good looking, but there are necessary bells and whistles | 12:38 |
| daisy21 | yes I have seen it alright but I am only getting the clock and xterm | 12:38 |
| Surfa | that's weird | 12:38 |
| daisy21 | Do I need to install something else to get the fancy bells and whistles? | 12:38 |
| Surfa | nope | 12:39 |
| vilvo | can anyone tell if we could use #meego logging bot(?) to log #meego-qa-tools? | 12:39 |
| Surfa | they should be installed out of the box | 12:39 |
| Stskeeps | vilvo: can be done, but my usual bot is acting up | 12:39 |
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| Stskeeps | vilvo: will set up a working thing later today | 12:39 |
| vilvo | thanks Stskeeps | 12:39 |
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| saft | hi ppl | 12:58 |
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| saft | would it be possible to install meego instead of andorid on an HTC Desire with andro kernel and propper firmware? its like install linux on any other mashine right? | 13:01 |
| thiago_home | no | 13:01 |
| thiago_home | that's an ARM machine | 13:01 |
| TermanaN900 | saft, its not really like installing linux on any other machine | 13:01 |
| TermanaN900 | But it is possible with software rendering | 13:02 |
| ali1234 | it's like installing linux on any other *ARM* machine | 13:02 |
| saft | meego works on arm right? | 13:02 |
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| ali1234 | btw desire has hw3d | 13:02 |
| saft | and if it would be compiled for the right cpu its ok? | 13:02 |
| thiago_home | saft: yes | 13:02 |
| CosmoHill | salut | 13:03 |
| thiago_home | yes | 13:03 |
| TermanaN900 | ali1234, your not really correct there either. Porting and installing is different on each device | 13:03 |
| thiago_home | using the proper flasher tool, it's easy | 13:03 |
| thiago_home | do you have it? | 13:03 |
| ali1234 | it's already compiled for the right cpu | 13:03 |
| ali1234 | TermanaN900: "either" lol | 13:03 |
| ali1234 | TermanaN900: don't you ever get tired of being wrong? | 13:03 |
| TermanaN900 | ali1234, while there is hardware 3D acceleration in the Desire it is incompatable with MeeGo | 13:04 |
| saft | you could mod the bootloader to start a meego bootloader starting in the end meego | 13:04 |
| thiago_home | saft: meego also requires an OpenGL ES 2 driver | 13:04 |
| ali1234 | TermanaN900: that's a fault of meego, not linux | 13:04 |
| saft | ic | 13:04 |
| thiago_home | is that available for the device? | 13:04 |
| saft | well the Desire has all needed drivers in the linux kernel (+firmware) | 13:05 |
| saft | so its a software issue | 13:05 |
| TermanaN900 | ali1234, NO - its the fault of Qualcomm for only making the userspace part of the driver work with Android's SurfaceFlinger | 13:05 |
| thiago_home | so can you install the kernel module on a 2.6.35 stock kernel? | 13:05 |
| saft | as i read in the forums they mod 2.6.34 kernels | 13:06 |
| thiago_home | stock kernel | 13:06 |
| ali1234 | thiago_home: yes, QSD 3d drivers have an open source layer | 13:06 |
| thiago_home | no patches to the kernel | 13:06 |
| ali1234 | you can recompile it for any kernel you want | 13:06 |
| thiago_home | good | 13:06 |
| thiago_home | how about the GLX driver? | 13:06 |
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| saft | but for what sould you want 35 if it works good on 34? | 13:07 |
| thiago_home | why should you settle for an older kernel? | 13:07 |
| saft | besides bugfix | 13:07 |
| thiago_home | anyway, 34 and 35 are not important | 13:07 |
| thiago_home | so do you have access to the OpenGL ES 2 driver for X11? | 13:07 |
| saft | does it has any improvments affekting the Desire hardware? | 13:08 |
| Stskeeps | thiago_home: i think it's backed by Mesa actually | 13:08 |
| Stskeeps | thiago_home: there's DRI/DRM/EXA in their xorg driver | 13:08 |
| thiago_home | Mesa has DRI yes | 13:08 |
| Stskeeps | like, on the qsd 3d | 13:08 |
| thiago_home | saft: it has improvements, so why not use them? | 13:08 |
| saft | of course if it has you should use it | 13:08 |
| thiago_home | anyway, if you can launch X.org on the device and that offers GLX with GL ES 2, you should be fine | 13:09 |
| saft | but thats not the point | 13:09 |
| ali1234 | https://www.codeaurora.org/gitweb/quic/xwin/ | 13:09 |
| saft | they have started debian and ubuntu on the desire | 13:09 |
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| Stskeeps | saft: yes, but no glesv2 | 13:10 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 13:10 |
| Stskeeps | ubuntu is easier as it's 'just' gnome, but newer graphics toolkits needs more juie | 13:11 |
| Stskeeps | just like 3d is used for composition | 13:11 |
| ali1234 | Stskeeps: which graphics toolkits would those be? Qt? nope, don't think so | 13:11 |
| thiago_home | Qt | 13:11 |
| Stskeeps | ali1234: if you want to use something along the lines of qml, you'll need it | 13:11 |
| thiago_home | technically neither Qt nor Qt Quick require GL | 13:12 |
| thiago_home | they just perform much better with it | 13:12 |
| thiago_home | same for MTF | 13:12 |
| Stskeeps | i kinda wonder why mtf is so slow in sw rendering at times though | 13:12 |
| thiago_home | because it was designed on hardware with GLESv2 | 13:13 |
| Stskeeps | then again, i didn't try with -arch armv6 | 13:13 |
| jani | Stskeeps: running compositor ? | 13:13 |
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| ali1234 | Stskeeps: why does QML need accelerated rendering? | 13:13 |
| jani | pkill -9 compositor # instant speed increment =) | 13:13 |
| thiago_home | ali1234: to be faster | 13:13 |
| thiago_home | ali1234: if you accelerate, it's faster | 13:13 |
| ali1234 | faster than what? | 13:13 |
| Stskeeps | jani: no, just plain libmeegotouch, but i haven't researched it recently. | 13:13 |
| ali1234 | also how does accelerated graphics make your XML parser run faster? | 13:14 |
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| jani | Stskeeps: atleast for me, without compositor -software rendering is atleast decent. | 13:14 |
| ali1234 | hmm looks like QML isn't even a subset of XML | 13:14 |
| Stskeeps | ali1234: same way openvg accelerated helps your vector graphics rendering, freeing up cpu time.. | 13:14 |
| thiago_home | ali1234: the accelerated graphics make the graphics go faster | 13:15 |
| Stskeeps | as in, draw operations are quicker to finish | 13:15 |
| ali1234 | and what does this have to do with QML in particular? | 13:15 |
| Stskeeps | did you see the typical qml interfaces? :P | 13:16 |
| ali1234 | does QML benefit more than other ways of specifying the interface? | 13:16 |
| thiago_home | have you seen the typical QML interface or not? | 13:17 |
| ali1234 | like this you mean: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQkXdzMyGns | 13:17 |
| thiago_home | no, more like the flickr demo | 13:17 |
| ali1234 | so QML is capable of making interfaces that "regular" Qt cannot? | 13:18 |
| thiago_home | QML is Qt, so everything it can do, Qt can | 13:18 |
| ali1234 | so what exactly is your point? | 13:18 |
| thiago_home | the point is that QML and MTF both make heavy use of effects and animations | 13:18 |
| thiago_home | those are much faster with HW-acceleration | 13:19 |
| ali1234 | as does regular Qt | 13:19 |
| thiago_home | no | 13:19 |
| ali1234 | if you chose to use them | 13:19 |
| thiago_home | yeah | 13:19 |
| thiago_home | the point being that MTF chose to use them, and it's easy to choose to use them in QML | 13:19 |
| thiago_home | not so much in plain Qt | 13:19 |
| thiago_home | so the interfaces made for MeeGo rely heavily on composition, effects and animations | 13:19 |
| thiago_home | that's why they are slow with software rendering | 13:20 |
| ali1234 | which is why meego relies on graphics acceleration | 13:20 |
| ali1234 | not because "the toolkit needs it" | 13:20 |
| thiago_home | 12:12 < thiago_home> technically neither Qt nor Qt Quick require GL | 13:20 |
| thiago_home | 12:12 < thiago_home> they just perform much better with it | 13:20 |
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| ali1234 | and also, not even QML *needs* acceleration | 13:21 |
| ali1234 | it only needs acceleration to make a certain type of UI on a certain type of hardware | 13:22 |
| saft | so the desire would need a GL driver to work smoth with meego | 13:22 |
| ali1234 | saft: it won't work at all without a GL driver | 13:23 |
| saft | but the desire seem to have HC as it is able to render google earth | 13:23 |
| thiago_home | saft: yes | 13:23 |
| thiago_home | what's HC/ | 13:23 |
| saft | typo HA, hardware accelaration | 13:24 |
| saft | sorry | 13:24 |
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| thiago_home | is that GL? | 13:26 |
| thiago_home | and is that accessible from X via GLX? | 13:26 |
| saft | i dont know | 13:27 |
| saft | it uses GL | 13:28 |
| ali1234 | checking... | 13:28 |
| saft | just googled ^^; | 13:28 |
| saft | Android includes support for high performance 3D graphics via the OpenGL API — specifically, the OpenGL ES API. | 13:28 |
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| saft | what else would you need to get X working on it? | 13:30 |
| ali1234 | X already works on it | 13:31 |
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| ali1234 | you need a GLX driver for meego however | 13:31 |
| Stskeeps | or dri to be exact | 13:31 |
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| ali1234 | even the old msm driver has dri | 13:32 |
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| Stskeeps | my problem is that i can't find exactly what it supports and not :P | 13:32 |
| ali1234 | i had a link to the source before, can't find it now | 13:33 |
| saft | arend the ARM chips similar? so wouldnt the meego (n900) driver work on it? | 13:34 |
| ali1234 | https://www.codeaurora.org/gitweb/quic/la/?p=kernel/msm.git;a=tree;f=drivers/gpu/msm;h=dcacc55d835348f71454784c0e32b819424af4be;hb=refs/heads/android-msm-2.6.32 | 13:34 |
| ali1234 | that's the snapdragon 3d driver | 13:35 |
| ali1234 | no idea how to tell if it works with GLX or whatever | 13:35 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, except that's not a 3d driver as such as it's coupled with a userspace driver | 13:35 |
| ali1234 | yes | 13:35 |
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| Stskeeps | and the question is if that userspace driver is 'just' the xf86-video-msm one | 13:35 |
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| saft | hmmm the n900 has a powervr gpu the desire a adreno 200 gpu | 13:42 |
| saft | sounds like a dead end... | 13:42 |
| saft | hmmm n900 has the better GPU.... so the effekts would work propper at all | 13:45 |
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| vlj | slaine vgrade Stskeeps ali1234 : do new emgd drivers work ? | 13:46 |
| hell | Stskeeps: so, where i can read about right way to develop on SDK? I'd like to see some toolchain like qtcreator->cross-compiller with sdk env -> debug on target qemu. Is it possible? | 13:46 |
| ali1234 | vlj: i have no way to test them sorry | 13:46 |
| Stskeeps | vlj: didn't test them yet | 13:46 |
| Stskeeps | hell: yes, but under development | 13:47 |
| ali1234 | i just downloaded them because i couldn't figure out why a linux driver was being delivered in a 100mb windows exe file | 13:47 |
| ali1234 | i still don't understand it, probably never will :) | 13:47 |
| hell | Stskeeps: toolchain is under development? Or "way"? I understand, that finally rpm will build by obs | 13:48 |
| Stskeeps | hell: worth checking out wiki.meego.com/SDK | 13:48 |
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| Stskeeps | hell: and yes, that path is under development | 13:48 |
| hell | Stskeeps: i already run qemu image. | 13:49 |
| arfoll | anyone know how to exctract the exe under linux? | 13:49 |
| Stskeeps | hell: said path ;) | 13:49 |
| hell | but, there are i686 kernel based, wich strange for me) | 13:49 |
| ali1234 | arfoll: i used wine | 13:49 |
| hell | i think, it will be ARM | 13:49 |
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| arfoll | ali1234, grumbl don't want wine on my box... was hoping there was an alternative to cabexctract or unzip that would work... | 13:50 |
| saft | maybe 7zip | 13:51 |
| saft | it can handel selfextrakting .exe files | 13:51 |
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| arfoll | saft, no doesnt work | 13:52 |
| saft | other way is vmware or vbox ;) | 13:52 |
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| arfoll | was there actually any annoucement or is it another mistake like the rpm? | 13:54 |
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| arfoll | \ | 13:54 |
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| ali1234 | i guess this IEMGD_HEAD_Linux.tgz is the file you want? | 13:54 |
| hell | Stskeeps: so, how i will develop now? Run qtcreator under sdk? | 13:55 |
| arfoll | ali1234, probably is that where the linux driver is? | 13:55 |
| vlj | emgd are not redistribuable | 13:55 |
| ali1234 | arfoll: looks like it | 13:55 |
| Stskeeps | hell, sorry, not the guy with the answers.. | 13:55 |
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| hell | ok) | 13:55 |
| arfoll | ali1234, i installed it using wine, where is the .tgz? | 13:56 |
| punit | can we resize carrick-connection-panel in standalone mode | 13:56 |
| ali1234 | .wine/drive_c/IEMGD/IEMGD_1_0/plugins/Pre_Packaged.Drivers_1.0.0/Linux | 13:56 |
| arfoll | found it | 13:56 |
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| Stskeeps | any rpms there? | 13:57 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 13:57 |
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| arfoll | Stskeeps, still dreaming huh? | 13:57 |
| ali1234 | there is some GPL code in this tarball | 13:57 |
| Stskeeps | kernel driver, naturall | 13:58 |
| Stskeeps | y | 13:58 |
| ali1234 | yes | 13:58 |
| ali1234 | and then there is the accelerated Xorg servers for meego 1.0 and fc11 | 13:58 |
| vlj | according to the intel licence, agp code and drm code is GPL too | 13:59 |
| vlj | ... if you are an OEM | 13:59 |
| vlj | I don't know if intel know the real meaning of "GPL" | 13:59 |
| ali1234 | license.txt at top of the tgz says: http://pastebin.com/LM47aBVi | 14:01 |
| ali1234 | i take that to mean the whole tgz is redistributable | 14:01 |
| vlj | ok | 14:01 |
| arfoll | ali1234, there are like 3 different licenses | 14:01 |
| ali1234 | hmm yeah | 14:01 |
| arfoll | the BSD one is fine, but the other one grants you a one end user license and dissalows the use of the driver on non intel HW | 14:02 |
| Stskeeps | well, gma500 is intel hw | 14:02 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 14:02 |
| ali1234 | yeah, it wouldn't work on anything else? | 14:03 |
| arfoll | I just find it funny that they think anyone would want to use their crappy driver on anything else! | 14:03 |
| vlj | maybe you can "steal" the sgx part of the driver to run on another hw | 14:03 |
| Stskeeps | doubt it | 14:03 |
| ali1234 | if you are an "Independent Software Vendor" then the whole license applies, which appears to allow you to redistribute it | 14:03 |
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| arfoll | " You may copy the Software onto a single computer for your personal, noncommercial use, and you may make one back-up copy of the Software, subject to these conditions" | 14:06 |
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| ali1234 | arfoll: that's for end users | 14:06 |
| arfoll | if you're an OEM the whole license applies. I take that to meaning all the clauses | 14:06 |
| hell | hm, handheld qemu image X does not listen tcp. | 14:07 |
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| CosmoHill | hey tekojo | 14:16 |
| tekojo | Hi CosmoHill | 14:16 |
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| mmc | is __MEEGO__ #defined? when running gcc? | 14:29 |
| thiago_home | no | 14:30 |
| thiago_home | MeeGo is not an OS | 14:30 |
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| * CosmoHill is trying (and apparently failing) to tell something it's /etc and not /ect | 14:55 | |
| nazgee | logout | 14:56 |
| CosmoHill | huzzah! Success! | 14:56 |
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| hell | all of my qt test apps, builded an runned on SDK VM showed as black rectangle | 15:07 |
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| hell | wtf? | 15:07 |
| hell | simple qt mainwindow from Create Qt Application wizard | 15:10 |
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| Stskeeps | hell: handset UX? | 15:11 |
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| hell | Stskeeps: i thought, that ux will decorate my window, without any body moves? | 15:13 |
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| Stskeeps | hell: there's a bug that affects xterm too | 15:13 |
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| X-Fade | hell: Click on the 'home' button. Do you see your app in the dashboard? | 15:15 |
| hell | X-Fade: yeah, some terrible zoomed snapshot | 15:15 |
| hell | *some kind of | 15:15 |
| X-Fade | hell: yeah, known issue. Annoying though :) | 15:16 |
| hell | i run my app by $ DISPLAY=:0 testproj, that is simple qmainwindow. May be some example exists? mannequin will be good enough | 15:18 |
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| hell | hm, i see some differences in code. But in my SDK there are no MApplication; MApplicationWindow and etc M* includes(and other dev-package contents?) | 15:28 |
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| ali1234 | Stskeeps: can you please give me that OBS link again for importing binaries, i lost it, and can't find it on the wiki | 15:39 |
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| ali1234 | Stskeeps: nvm found it | 15:42 |
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| vgrade1 | Vlj, on a cliem | 15:44 |
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| vgrade1 | Vlj, on a client site today so have not tried the new emgd. Interesting point regarding the tgz license conditions | 15:45 |
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| vgrade1 | Also, what is the definition od an independant software vendor. Can i put an image up for download. | 15:47 |
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| vlj | ok | 15:51 |
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| hell | what is on top of package managment system in meego? yum? | 15:55 |
| thiago | or zypper | 15:55 |
| thiago | I don't know which one it is now | 15:55 |
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| vlj | both are there | 15:56 |
| vlj | both works | 15:56 |
| hell | ah, only zypper in my image. | 15:56 |
| vlj | at least both works better than the ui front end for package management | 15:56 |
| hell | thnx | 15:56 |
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| adeus | hmmh | 16:00 |
| adeus | Error: failed to create image : Failed to apply configuration to image | 16:00 |
| adeus | and nothing else | 16:00 |
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| ali1234 | hmm this actually seems to be working | 16:20 |
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| ali1234 | are there any instructions for dual booting meego on netbooks? | 16:25 |
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| * thiago realises that "libmeegotouch" matches "ibm" | 16:41 | |
| w00t_ | thiago: I think you just gave me nightmares | 16:42 |
| w00t_ | :-) | 16:42 |
| * thiago was searching for some AIX information on his emails and all the MTF emails turned up | 16:43 | |
| vlj | what is mtf ? | 16:46 |
| thiago | MeeGo Touch Framework | 16:46 |
| thiago | a.k.a. libmeegotouch | 16:46 |
| vlj | ok | 16:47 |
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| hell | thiago: oh shit, i was read all google db for MTF source code))) | 16:50 |
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| ali1234 | so i tried to build meego 1.0.1 glibc using only meego 1.0.1 bins. it didn't work: http://pastebin.com/Ffyu85DW | 17:00 |
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| ali1234 | i didn't get any illegal instruction, it failed because of rpmlint right at the end | 17:00 |
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| Stskeeps | oh, right, i forgot to give you those non-ssse3 base system binaries | 17:01 |
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| ali1234 | it failed because of things like: | 17:02 |
| ali1234 | glibc-devel.i686: E: summary-ended-with-dot (Badness: 89) C Object files for development using standard C libraries. | 17:02 |
| ali1234 | seems to me that this has nothing at all to do with the build system or arch :) | 17:02 |
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| Stskeeps | http://download.obs.maemo.org/home:/stskeeps:/ssse3_bootstrap/current/ , 80.248.164.206 api.obs.maemo.org downloads.obs.maemo.org | 17:03 |
| ali1234 | the packages are just broken | 17:03 |
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| vlj | remove the . at the end of %summary | 17:03 |
| Stskeeps | if host doesn't work | 17:03 |
| vlj | err | 17:03 |
| Stskeeps | ^ have fun | 17:03 |
| vlj | you should have Summary: something-about-glibc . | 17:03 |
| ali1234 | vlj: yes i know | 17:03 |
| vlj | remove the trailing . | 17:03 |
| X-Fade | Stskeeps: Hosts have proper dns entry now. | 17:03 |
| Stskeeps | ah | 17:03 |
| Stskeeps | well then | 17:03 |
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| ali1234 | vlj: i know i can fix it, but i don't understand how silly things like that can even get into a released package | 17:04 |
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| vlj | ali1234: this is not a blocking error | 17:05 |
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| vlj | it does not prevent package from being built and released in obs | 17:06 |
| ali1234 | vlj: i see, it just says failed... but it still made a rpm? | 17:06 |
| vlj | yup | 17:06 |
| vlj | in /var/tmp/buildroot/usr/src/packages/RPMS/*/ | 17:06 |
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| ali1234 | i am using OBS | 17:07 |
| vlj | obs builds the rpm, then installs them, then test them with rpmlint | 17:07 |
| ali1234 | it didn't put the rpm into my repository | 17:07 |
| ali1234 | in fact it didn't even create the repository | 17:07 |
| vlj | well see if they are published | 17:07 |
| ali1234 | how? | 17:07 |
| vlj | err | 17:07 |
| vlj | you running local OBS ? | 17:08 |
| ali1234 | yes | 17:08 |
| vlj | in the web ui | 17:08 |
| vlj | click on the repository you want | 17:08 |
| vlj | it should display available binariy rpm | 17:08 |
| ali1234 | it says "no published binaries" | 17:08 |
| ali1234 | i guess that is pretty clear | 17:08 |
| vlj | hm | 17:09 |
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| ali1234 | it created all the rpms and then rejected them due to rpm lint | 17:09 |
| vlj | and does obs reports that build "failed" ? | 17:09 |
| ali1234 | yes it does | 17:09 |
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| vlj | in opensuse obs such error are not blocking ... :/ | 17:09 |
| ali1234 | well i copied the meego project configs like i'm supposed to | 17:10 |
| ali1234 | what else can i do? | 17:10 |
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| vlj | except if error badness are above a certain treshehold | 17:10 |
| ali1234 | 8 packages and 0 specfiles checked; 4 errors, 106 warnings. | 17:10 |
| vlj | threshold | 17:10 |
| vlj | what are the other error ? | 17:10 |
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| ali1234 | 4x summary ends with a dot | 17:11 |
| ali1234 | the other errors are not listed | 17:11 |
| ali1234 | wait there was only 4 | 17:12 |
| vlj | is there a "error badness excedded 10000, test aborted " ? | 17:12 |
| ali1234 | no | 17:12 |
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| Stskeeps | auke: ping | 17:45 |
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| DawnFoster | lbt: ping | 18:22 |
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| lbt | DawnFoster: no time right now... can you ping me when I'm home in ~1hr | 18:29 |
| DawnFoster | sure - ping me when you get there - no hurry | 18:29 |
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| RST38h | Quesion: I have got two files (Image.c and Console.c) that qmake refuses to see. They are included as SOURCES in the .pro file, but the resulting Makefile does not mention them | 18:32 |
| RST38h | Any idea what may be wrong? | 18:32 |
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| slaine | ali1234: that all sounds horribly familiar | 19:06 |
| ali1234 | slaine: whassat? | 19:06 |
| slaine | the proper way actually not working | 19:07 |
| ali1234 | lol | 19:07 |
| ali1234 | yeah i know | 19:07 |
| slaine | same problems with moblin 2.0 and 2.1 | 19:07 |
| slaine | spec files that where broken | 19:07 |
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| ali1234 | well i just went out and bought some big USB flash drives so i can actually install on my netbook now | 19:07 |
| ali1234 | you better believe i am going to report each and every one of these bugs that i can reproduce on a real meego install | 19:08 |
| ali1234 | because i'm tired of hearing "it would work if you do it properly" | 19:08 |
| ali1234 | and then spending 3 days doing it "properly" only to find out that it doesn't work their either | 19:08 |
| slaine | I ran into exactly the same issues | 19:08 |
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| slaine | did it all "the right way" to only find I had exactly the same errors | 19:09 |
| slaine | which I then found out had been manually worked around and pushed out anyway and possible fixed in the 2.2 software, which I couldn't get a hold of because it was all inhouse | 19:09 |
| slaine | That was when I gave up | 19:10 |
| ali1234 | what do you think would be the best way to go about this? | 19:11 |
| slaine | keep raising the issue | 19:11 |
| ali1234 | that is, if i want to make bug reports against source packages, what method do you think i should use to test? | 19:11 |
| ali1234 | oh i want to do that :) | 19:11 |
| slaine | for the new stuff I've no idea | 19:11 |
| ali1234 | but i want to do it in a way that leaves absolutely no possible way for developers to blame me for "doing it wrong" | 19:11 |
| Stskeeps | ali1234: what rpm do you use? and meego-rpm-config? | 19:11 |
| slaine | I used my own scripts, I used mock and I used the ocs build command | 19:12 |
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| slaine | this is for moblin stuff | 19:12 |
| slaine | I've not had the time to get to trying the same with meego yet | 19:12 |
| ali1234 | Stskeeps: i used all rpms from meego 1.0.1, source rpm of glibc from 1.0.1, and the project config that you guys are supposedly using on the community obs | 19:12 |
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| Stskeeps | ali1234: no, rpm and meego-rpm-config package | 19:13 |
| ali1234 | Stskeeps: i used the ones from meego 1.0.1 | 19:13 |
| Stskeeps | ok | 19:13 |
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| DavidGilson | Hello - I've been trying to build an MeeGo kernel for my N900, although zImages files are no longer online for either the open or closed Nokia versions, and when I try to build a kernal from a KickStart file it always fails because it's trying to pull files from the http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/devel/ tree, because it isn't there. Can any suggest an alternative? | 19:30 |
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| ali1234 | Stskeeps: do the trunk rpms work on AMD for building? | 19:30 |
| ali1234 | i mean if i import the official ones, not your builds | 19:31 |
| slaine | only if they don't exec ssse3 instructions | 19:31 |
| ali1234 | yes yes, i know this :) | 19:31 |
| Stskeeps | ali1234: i did on maemo obs but some odd errors | 19:31 |
| slaine | hehe | 19:31 |
| ali1234 | slaine: did you miss the whole past week? ;) | 19:31 |
| slaine | I think so | 19:31 |
| ali1234 | slaine: i have a script that can detect ssse3 instructions on a whole set of rpms | 19:32 |
| ali1234 | but it can't tell me if they are guarded or not | 19:32 |
| slaine | Yeah, I saw | 19:32 |
| DawnFoster | hey DavidGilson! | 19:32 |
| Stskeeps | DawnFoster: inside the -tar there's a vmlinuz :) | 19:33 |
| ali1234 | Stskeeps: as long as you didn't hit any "ileegal instruction" then i would be inclined to think that any odd errors were bugs that need reporting | 19:33 |
| DawnFoster | stskeeps: was that really directed at me? | 19:33 |
| Stskeeps | DawnFoster: err, no | 19:34 |
| Stskeeps | pizza got in the way | 19:34 |
| DawnFoster | ha! | 19:34 |
| slaine | Hmmm, pizza | 19:34 |
| Stskeeps | DavidGilson: instide the -tar there's a vmlinuz | 19:34 |
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| DawnFoster | Geez, now I'm in the mood for pizza and it's only 9:30am here. Thanks, stskeeps | 19:34 |
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| Stskeeps | at least it's friday ;) | 19:35 |
| DavidGilson | Stskeeps - vmlinuz = zImage ? | 19:36 |
| Stskeeps | yes | 19:36 |
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| timoph | hmmmh.. pizza :p~ | 19:38 |
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| DavidGilson | Thanks | 19:46 |
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| DawnFoster | DavidGilson: did you get what you needed? | 19:48 |
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| DavidGilson | For now, I haven't had time to check | 19:50 |
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| * lbt is back DawnFoster | 20:10 | |
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| DawnFoster | hey lbt | 20:20 |
| DawnFoster | lbt: did you see Tero's response to the community OBS question | 20:21 |
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| DawnFoster | any technical reasons we can't just link it to the maemo build server and do the builds there? | 20:21 |
| DawnFoster | rather than putting the proprietary stuff in our OBS | 20:22 |
| DawnFoster | lbt: also, I put some items on the community office agenda for you. Need to confirm you can attend and present them: http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Office/Meetings#Next_CO_meeting | 20:23 |
| Stskeeps | builds would have to happen on meego.com builder, but binaries would be pulled in temporarily over a network link | 20:23 |
| lbt | I did see it | 20:23 |
| Stskeeps | (you can't export builds to another obs) | 20:23 |
| Stskeeps | .. or can we | 20:23 |
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| DawnFoster | It's cleaner is we can store the proprietary bits elsewhere and have a clear process to do the builds via pulling over a network link or whatever | 20:24 |
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| lbt | I admit I'm not thrilled.... :) I think I really want to see Maemo fully integrated into MEeGo | 20:24 |
| lbt | this is "arms length" stuff | 20:24 |
| lbt | which I feel is not what Maemo community deserves | 20:25 |
| DawnFoster | but I'm sure you understand the issues with allowing non-open code on the open source infrastructure | 20:25 |
| lbt | but that wasn't the question :) | 20:25 |
| lbt | no actually | 20:25 |
| lbt | many distros support nvidia blobs | 20:25 |
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| lbt | I'd agree if this was an FSF initiative | 20:25 |
| lbt | do we do GPL3? | 20:25 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: there is one major blocker here.. sgx and possible 3rd party libs not owned by nokia | 20:26 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: so a link would be needed | 20:26 |
| lbt | *nod* | 20:26 |
| lbt | why? | 20:26 |
| lbt | would we be distributing them? | 20:26 |
| lbt | or simply providing them in the build chroot | 20:26 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: i mean if the actual binaries were inside a OBS project on the meego servers | 20:27 |
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| DawnFoster | lbt: if they're on our servers, yes we would be "distributing" | 20:27 |
| lbt | DawnFoster: if they never leave your server? | 20:27 |
| DawnFoster | in this case without a license to do so (most likely) | 20:27 |
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| lbt | (although I admit a "local build" causes issues there) | 20:28 |
| DawnFoster | I think so, but we'd need someone with more legal guidance to give the ok | 20:28 |
| Stskeeps | i am bordering towards that a OBS link to a nokia-owned server is the organisationally most sound | 20:28 |
| DawnFoster | I | 20:28 |
| DawnFoster | oops | 20:28 |
| lbt | again... I'm talking about providing all the binaries that a normal "scratchbox" install provides | 20:28 |
| lbt | no more | 20:28 |
| lbt | no less | 20:28 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 20:28 |
| lbt | for Fremantle only | 20:28 |
| DawnFoster | I want to find a solution that allows the maemo community to do what they need to do | 20:29 |
| lbt | not MeeGo on Fremantle | 20:29 |
| lbt | which is an admirable but discrete target | 20:29 |
| DawnFoster | but without taking a step back on openness in the project | 20:29 |
| lbt | *nod* | 20:29 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: is there anything wrong with a obs link that can be added by agreeing to an eula? | 20:29 |
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| Stskeeps | i mean, versus locally hosted binaries | 20:29 |
| lbt | ah... that way around | 20:29 |
| Stskeeps | i'm just wondering if we're on the same page of what's actually being suggested | 20:30 |
| lbt | I thought the idea was to build against obs.maemo.org which would link to cbuild.meego.com | 20:30 |
| Stskeeps | if i was to set it up, i would have Fremantle:free on meego obs and that building against maemo.org:Fremantle:non-free | 20:30 |
| lbt | hmm | 20:30 |
| DavidGilson | Hi I asked before about getting MeeGo on the N900 - Just downloaded the MeeGo code drop .tar.gz file as advised, but when I opened it, there wasn't an image and image file, there was a whole Linux OS directory tree inside instead. | 20:31 |
| Stskeeps | DavidGilson: hmm, get one of our weekly releases | 20:31 |
| lbt | Stskeeps: sounds similar to DoD | 20:31 |
| lbt | ut not | 20:31 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: well, DoD doesn't work | 20:31 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 20:31 |
| lbt | I know | 20:31 |
| Stskeeps | or at least didn't in the past | 20:31 |
| lbt | still on todo AFAIK | 20:31 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: would osc build know to fetch from obs.maemo.org directly? | 20:32 |
| lbt | that was what I was wondering | 20:32 |
| lbt | no | 20:32 |
| Stskeeps | i have seen those 'look at X server for binary' | 20:32 |
| DavidGilson | Stskeeps - Just to avoid confusion on my part - would you mind giving me a link to weekly builds please? Ideally, I'd like to build the closed source version, but the files required by Kickstart are not available on the MeeGo repo server. | 20:32 |
| Stskeeps | DavidGilson: yes, gladly | 20:32 |
| lbt | I can build against meego.com_live inside nokia without needing a meego.com account | 20:33 |
| lbt | so the meego.com would pull them in, cache them and serve them | 20:33 |
| lbt | distribution | 20:33 |
| Stskeeps | it actually caches from links? | 20:33 |
| lbt | yes.... it would also be building using closed libraries on meego.com | 20:34 |
| Stskeeps | 1.0.80.16.20100824.1 | 20:34 |
| lbt | exactly as if we imported fremantle | 20:34 |
| Stskeeps | DavidGilson: http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/meego-codedrop.php , 1.0.80.16.20100824.1 | 20:34 |
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| DavidGilson | Stskeeps - Many thanks - Do I understand correctly that this is only to be run from a MicroSD card, or can the internal drive be flashed instead? | 20:35 |
| Stskeeps | DavidGilson: microsd only | 20:35 |
| DavidGilson | Understood & many thanks | 20:36 |
| lbt | DawnFoster: I think we should start with "we want moving from Maemo community builds to MeeGo community builds to be as painless as possible" | 20:36 |
| lbt | the objective is about getting all the maemo devs into MeeGo | 20:36 |
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| lbt | we have a golden opportunity to do that with Fremantle and Harmattan | 20:37 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: ok, really dodgy solution: cbuild accepts EULA, hence can build against these binaries for maemo development. to get access to m5 non-free, you go to nokia page, agree to eula and indicate your cbuild username.. | 20:37 |
| lbt | yes exactly | 20:37 |
| Stskeeps | lbt, that sends off a request to cbuild that it's ok to add the target. | 20:37 |
| Stskeeps | .. | 20:38 |
| Stskeeps | you know what, i'll go read exactly how the eula reads | 20:38 |
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| lbt | but that process gives you read access to the meego.com cache of the fremantle binaries | 20:38 |
| DawnFoster | lbt: it just sounds like there are some technical solutions that we should pursue that solve the goal of allowing people to build what they need without putting the closed source stuff on the meego infrastructure | 20:38 |
| lbt | people don't have access to the cbuild passwd file :) | 20:38 |
| DawnFoster | lbt: maybe we can focus on these for now | 20:39 |
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| DawnFoster | make it easy for people to move over from maemo but still keeping meego clean | 20:39 |
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| RST38h | Pardon my ignorance, but can | 20:39 |
| lbt | DawnFoster: I don't like focusing on technical solutions without having a clear objective | 20:39 |
| lcuk | DawnFoster, another alternative is to add motivation to the Licensing change request queue. | 20:39 |
| RST38h | 't you build Meego apps locally? | 20:39 |
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| Stskeeps | RST38h: yes | 20:39 |
| lcuk | so that the closed components effecting projects isnt an issue | 20:39 |
| lcuk | because they would no longer be closed | 20:40 |
| lbt | lcuk: I don't care about "Licensing change request queue" for fremantle | 20:40 |
| lbt | it's dead | 20:40 |
| DawnFoster | lbt: the objective is to allow Maemo community builds for MeeGo to be as painless as possible without putting closed source binaries on the open source infrastructure | 20:40 |
| lcuk | but opening the blockers would allow moving forward with open versions of the components you think are blocking | 20:40 |
| DawnFoster | lbt: you have been one of the people hammering on us to be open :) | 20:41 |
| Stskeeps | which is why it pains us to even have to push this :) | 20:41 |
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| DawnFoster | i just don't want to take a step back | 20:41 |
| lbt | DawnFoster: "the objective is to allow Maemo community to build for *Fremantle* as painlessly as possible without putting closed source binaries on the open source infrastructure" | 20:41 |
| DawnFoster | lbt: yep | 20:41 |
| DawnFoster | nice clarification | 20:41 |
| Stskeeps | DawnFoster: i think we can agree there shouldn't be closed source on the infrastructure, but the problem is if we have problems with caching and temporary storage | 20:41 |
| Stskeeps | from a legal pov | 20:41 |
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| Stskeeps | or if people do a 'local build' in which cbuild would send on the binaries (proxying) | 20:42 |
| lbt | DawnFoster: I am passionate about getting MeeGo to be a success .... and that means bringing maemo onboard | 20:42 |
| lbt | I would kick and scream if MeeGo closed anything | 20:42 |
| DawnFoster | I'm less concerned about caching, but if that's an issue we could chat with some lawyers about it | 20:42 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: is there a way to deny local builds? | 20:42 |
| DawnFoster | lbt: I completely agree about bringing Maemo on board | 20:43 |
| DawnFoster | lbt: no argument there at all | 20:43 |
| lbt | Stskeeps: it's code... but not trivial | 20:43 |
| DawnFoster | lbt: I just want to make sure we do it the best way possible | 20:43 |
| Stskeeps | then again | 20:43 |
| DawnFoster | lbt: without compromising MeeGo values | 20:43 |
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| lbt | DawnFoster: *nod* ... the thing is ...this is not MeeGo code being closed. It's the same as MeeGo downloads including an nvidia blob | 20:44 |
| DawnFoster | lbt: if none of the technical solutions we've been talking about works | 20:44 |
| lbt | or the N00 blobs | 20:44 |
| DawnFoster | lbt: we can cycle back | 20:44 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: so, stepping back a little bit: what's wrong with the 'meego api' only one? | 20:44 |
| lbt | Stskeeps: will it build all of extras-dev today with no code changes | 20:44 |
| lbt | I want to migrate autobuilder to OBS | 20:44 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: mmm | 20:45 |
| lbt | before H launches | 20:45 |
| DawnFoster | lbt: I'm just saying that it sounds like we have some potential solutions that haven't been fully explored, but would meet our objective. I'd like to start there. | 20:45 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: does extras-devel work with even the binaries atm? | 20:45 |
| lbt | DawnFoster: we have limited resource. Some of the objections are philosophical but not consistent with other activity. | 20:46 |
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| lbt | Stskeeps: yes. | 20:46 |
| lbt | DawnFoster: so I am wary of spending many man-days on this when that equates to elapsed weeks and more | 20:46 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: can we make an experiment to see how much doesn't work when we don't have non-free included? | 20:46 |
| ali1234 | one thing i don't understand... what closed stuff do you actually need in the build root? | 20:46 |
| DawnFoster | lbt: maybe we can talk to Tero about resources, but this was originally his suggestion | 20:47 |
| Stskeeps | ali1234: there's a bunch of closed fremantle apis, including gles.. | 20:47 |
| * lbt stabs Tero ;) | 20:47 | |
| ali1234 | i mean sure you need SGX to *run* things, but you don't need it at build time... or do you? | 20:47 |
| Stskeeps | gles can be replaced | 20:47 |
| lbt | ali1234: the idea is that you get an "almost scratchbox" chroot | 20:47 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: my perspective is the opposite of extras-devel, where we would provide extras-devel 2.0, where people would drop in their meego api apps and it would build for m5, m6 and meego | 20:48 |
| Stskeeps | with extras-devel we don't get this benefit, i feel | 20:48 |
| Stskeeps | people have benefit cos fremantle isn't 'left behind' with apps | 20:48 |
| lcuk | sounds reasonable! | 20:49 |
| Stskeeps | because we can't take extras-devel and put it to meego, in fact, it'd be a mess | 20:49 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 20:49 |
| lbt | why? | 20:49 |
| Stskeeps | well, ok, let's say extras-devel to H then, .. it's deb too | 20:50 |
| lbt | what does "put it to meego" mean? | 20:50 |
| Stskeeps | hrm | 20:50 |
| Stskeeps | build for meego | 20:50 |
| lbt | no. of course not :) | 20:50 |
| lbt | but. | 20:50 |
| lbt | all the devs would be on OBS | 20:50 |
| lbt | all of them | 20:50 |
| lbt | at that point, barrier to meego is almost 0 | 20:50 |
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| lbt | that's my goal | 20:51 |
| Stskeeps | mm. | 20:51 |
| lbt | and actually. Maemo closes the autobuilder | 20:51 |
| lcuk | w000t qgil is checking on sharing services licensing change request \o/ https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11128#c5 | 20:51 |
| povbot | Bug 11128: Opening the source for Sharing services framework | 20:51 |
| lbt | Fremantle builds fully (communiyt) supported on OBS | 20:51 |
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| lbt | does that give you a clearer non-tech target Stskeeps? Am I missing something? | 20:52 |
| lbt | back in 5 ... ordering dinner :) | 20:52 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: it does put things a little bit in perspective | 20:52 |
| ali1234 | all the apps in maemo autobuilder should have a list of dependencies right? | 20:53 |
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| ali1234 | anybody done any analysis on that to see what people are using and what they are not using? | 20:54 |
| Stskeeps | ali1234: not a bad idea.. | 20:55 |
| ali1234 | i could do some scripts if you think it would be helpful | 20:55 |
| lbt | "Fremantle builds fully (communiyt) supported" | 20:55 |
| lbt | so doing a Freemantle target would benefit ;) | 20:56 |
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| ali1234 | how big is http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/source/ before i start downloading it all :) | 21:00 |
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| ali1234 | looks like potentially several gigabytes | 21:01 |
| thiago_home | probably | 21:01 |
| thiago_home | but extras-devel has a lot of unmaintained stuff, I guess | 21:01 |
| ali1234 | is everything in extras automatically in extras-devel, or do they get removed when they get promoted? | 21:02 |
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| CosmoHill | salut trem | 21:29 |
| trem | hello CosmoHill | 21:30 |
| DawnFoster | lbt: btw, can you attend the community office meeting on Tuesday? http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Office/Meetings | 21:30 |
| DawnFoster | lbt: since you are on the agenda :) | 21:30 |
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| ali1234 | in date/time properties my time zone is set to new york, and "system clock uses UTC" is selected | 21:57 |
| ali1234 | so why does meego think it is 7pm? | 21:57 |
| slaine | Because in UTC it is 7pm ? | 21:58 |
| ali1234 | this is true | 21:58 |
| ali1234 | so in new york it is not 7pm | 21:58 |
| ali1234 | no matter what it is doing, it is wrong :) | 21:59 |
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| slaine | :) | 21:59 |
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| ali1234 | i selected the correct time zone (europe/london) and now it thinks it is midnight | 22:00 |
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| slaine | And selecting back to new york gives you 7pm again ? | 22:00 |
| slaine | sounds like your system clock is well off | 22:01 |
| ali1234 | i went back into the time zone settings and "system clock uses UTC" is now NOT checked | 22:01 |
| slaine | might need to force the current time with the correct locale | 22:01 |
| ali1234 | the system clock was correct before i booted into the live system | 22:02 |
| ali1234 | my guess is: | 22:02 |
| slaine | Oh this is your build | 22:02 |
| slaine | how did you solve the rpm issues | 22:02 |
| ali1234 | no, this is meego 1.0 live image | 22:02 |
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| ali1234 | directly from meego.com | 22:02 |
| slaine | oh, damn | 22:02 |
| slaine | :) | 22:02 |
| ali1234 | so yeah, i think meego can't actually handle "system clock uses UTC" | 22:03 |
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| slaine | Or couldn't, possible addressed in 1.0.1 or 1.0.2 | 22:04 |
| DawnFoster | I think that was in an update | 22:04 |
| slaine | (I have that setting enabled and have had no issues) | 22:04 |
| ali1234 | argh i tried to set the clock proeprly, now my mouse has stopped working | 22:04 |
| ali1234 | switching vt fixed it... lol | 22:05 |
| ali1234 | this is *very* buggy | 22:05 |
| DawnFoster | ali1234: as are most 1.0 releases :) | 22:05 |
| DawnFoster | the 2 updates fixed a bunch of stuff | 22:05 |
| ali1234 | funny thing is it doesn't look all that different from moblin :) | 22:06 |
| ali1234 | should i build a 1.0.2 image and install from that? | 22:07 |
| ali1234 | or 1.0.1 | 22:07 |
| slaine | There was no rollup release | 22:08 |
| ali1234 | i'm not sure i trust 1.0 to write to my fixed disk, if it can't even manage to not mess up the clock :) | 22:08 |
| ali1234 | i can build one with mic though right? | 22:08 |
| slaine | you could make an upto date image using mic2 and the public repos | 22:08 |
| ali1234 | or is that just for arm builds? | 22:08 |
| slaine | I've it installed on my dell mini9 since 1.0 release and it's gotten better with 1.0.1 | 22:09 |
| slaine | didn't notice much change to 1.0.2 | 22:09 |
| ali1234 | hmm so one thing i really liked about maemo 5 was the skype integration... are we going to see some more of that with meego? they did release their SDK thing recently... | 22:10 |
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| slaine | and yes, the netbook release is very moblin-esque, it's essentially what moblin 2.2 was going to be with some extra enhancements | 22:10 |
| slaine | Did that actually happen ? | 22:10 |
| slaine | I know they where talking about it | 22:10 |
| ali1234 | yeah a few weeks ago | 22:11 |
| ali1234 | libskype basically | 22:11 |
| slaine | but I seem to recall the release was going to be to a few special people at first | 22:11 |
| ali1234 | closed of course, but you can integrate it into any gui you like | 22:11 |
| ali1234 | ah yeah it might still be closed beta | 22:11 |
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| slaine | yeah, I wouldn't mind doing my own UI for that on our units in work | 22:11 |
| CosmoHill | hey slaine | 22:11 |
| slaine | hey | 22:11 |
| ali1234 | i just want it to work with pidgin or empathy on desktop | 22:11 |
| ali1234 | and whatever telepathy UI we get on meego | 22:12 |
| ali1234 | still i bet some meego developers are in the closed beta... skype had a very large presence at the last maemo summit | 22:12 |
| ali1234 | could even be a development from the same code base they used on maemo 5 | 22:13 |
| slaine | they did moblin ui at one point, but that was for the older moblin 1.0 release ( which was basically Ubuntu mobile for all intents and purposes) | 22:14 |
| zumbi_ | hi! i am trying meego, looks quite nice, but i had a couple problems. 1) I was connecting to an account on empathy and closed the window and it did not get me back to the desktop environment. 2) I am unable to find the switch to install new applications (like skype), looking at help.meego.com pages it redirects me to garage, but there is no option to install software | 22:14 |
| Stskeeps | and hildon | 22:14 |
| Stskeeps | which was funny :) | 22:14 |
| zumbi_ | can i use unity desktop over meego? | 22:14 |
| ali1234 | slaine: on maemo 5 skype is integrated with all the other protocols, you never see a "skype app" (unless you install it | 22:14 |
| slaine | nice | 22:15 |
| ali1234 | you can barely even tell the different between a skype call and a phone call | 22:15 |
| ali1234 | and it supports video too | 22:15 |
| zumbi_ | ali1234: maemo 5 was very cool | 22:15 |
| ali1234 | it's probably the best version of skype on any linux :) | 22:15 |
| slaine | we let customers install skype on our units but have to go through all sorts of hoops with libwnck to control how it appears on our touchscreen units | 22:16 |
| slaine | pita | 22:16 |
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| Stskeeps | hehe | 22:16 |
| DawnFoster | zumbi_: netbook? (I assume) | 22:16 |
| zumbi_ | DawnFoster: aspire one | 22:16 |
| ali1234 | so yeah, here's hoping that they do as good a job integrating skype into meego as they did with maemo 5... | 22:17 |
| DawnFoster | zumbi_: not sure about that first question - when you put your mouse up in the top of the screen, you should get the panel bar where you can click on myzone, which is essentially the home screen | 22:17 |
| DawnFoster | zumbi_: This might help http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_1.0_Netbook_FAQ | 22:17 |
| * slaine puts on the Sheik Yerbouti album and gets to work | 22:17 | |
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| DawnFoster | zumbi_: it has links to installing skype, for example | 22:17 |
| zumbi_ | DawnFoster: i'll try again, i had to go to C-F1 and kill empathy, that fixed it | 22:18 |
| slaine | You can also press the Windows key | 22:18 |
| slaine | to get the toolbar to display | 22:18 |
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| zumbi_ | DawnFoster: ok, but it is annoying i can not have more than one window at a time on meego | 22:18 |
| DawnFoster | zumbi_: have you gone through all of the update processes? | 22:18 |
| slaine | zumbi_: You can have more than one window open | 22:19 |
| zumbi_ | DawnFoster: I am currently updating | 22:19 |
| slaine | each window opens in a "Zone" | 22:19 |
| DawnFoster | zumbi_: good - you should do that first | 22:19 |
| zumbi_ | i had to go to F1, ssh to external machine and connect to IRC | 22:19 |
| slaine | alt+tab will display an overview of all open zones and you can switch to each app that way (you can also move windows around to organize your zones) | 22:20 |
| zumbi_ | it might be nice to have a support button which joins to some support irc channel like this one Ñ) | 22:20 |
| DawnFoster | and you can have multiple apps in the same zone | 22:20 |
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| zumbi_ | slaine: ok, i'll try the zone stuff, but i did try alt-tab and it did not seem to work for me | 22:21 |
| slaine | It's different to what people are used to, but it works better as a flow, in my opinion, when dealing with the restrictive size of a netbook screen | 22:21 |
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| zumbi_ | yes, i guess i need to go through the learning curve | 22:22 |
| Saviq | hi all, I'm trying to get the 1.0.80 netbook images, but I'm getting some squashfs errors, are the images supposed to work off of a USB drive? | 22:22 |
| * zumbi_ changes back to F2 | 22:22 | |
| slaine | zumbi_: if you closed the window and ended up with just a blank screen, then that's normal behavior. You can move the mouse to the top of the screen to trigger showing the toolbar, where the myzone and other panels are located, or simply press the windows key to act as a toggle for show/hide the toolbar | 22:22 |
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| DawnFoster | Saviq: the images are designed to work off of a USB drive | 22:23 |
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| DawnFoster | Saviq: I assume you used dd to copy the image? | 22:23 |
| DawnFoster | (I have to ask) :) | 22:24 |
| slaine | zumbi_: I actually think that one of the updates made it so that if no windows where active, then the toolbar and myzone panel are displayed automagically | 22:24 |
| zumbi_ | slaine: yes, i tested all that, it works | 22:25 |
| zumbi_ | but it takes a while to update | 22:26 |
| slaine | yup | 22:26 |
| zumbi_ | that it is a problem of my network (C: | 22:27 |
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| lbt | DawnFoster: 6am... seriously... 6am | 22:46 |
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| Stskeeps | lbt: 8am finnish time | 22:46 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 22:46 |
| DawnFoster | lbt: it's after my bedtime, so not ideal for me, either :) | 22:46 |
| DawnFoster | we're being nice to Asia | 22:47 |
| lbt | that's like twenty to eight... except it's one hundred and twenty to eight | 22:47 |
| * lbt will go outside and wake up all the birds for a change :) | 22:47 | |
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| DawnFoster | lbt: so is that a "yes, I'll be there!" | 22:48 |
| lbt | <sigh> | 22:48 |
| lbt | you owe me a coffee :) | 22:48 |
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| Stskeeps | lbt, i wonder if there's some good ice cream places in dublin | 22:48 |
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| lbt | I hope so... | 22:49 |
| lbt | we should have done cornwall... | 22:49 |
| Stskeeps | nothing tops the ice cream shop in the middle of the red light district, though | 22:49 |
| DawnFoster | lbt: will do! | 22:49 |
| lbt | that was good... | 22:49 |
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| lbt | DawnFoster: have you found ice-cream parlours in Dublin... | 22:49 |
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| lbt | you should come over early and help research them | 22:50 |
| DawnFoster | lbt: I was leaving that up to you guys :) | 22:50 |
| DawnFoster | I'll bet slaine can help us | 22:50 |
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| slaine | Hmm, interesting question | 22:53 |
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| slaine | I don't know of any ice-cream parlours at all | 22:54 |
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| slaine | Most shopping centers (malls) have places where you can buy nice ice-creams, but there's not really a market for the dinner type place that just sells ice-creams | 22:54 |
| Stskeeps | even tiny stores selling icecream in cones? :P | 22:55 |
| slaine | yeah, there the ones in the shopping malls | 22:55 |
| * Stskeeps glares at his meego image | 22:56 | |
| Stskeeps | once i touched the keys, touchscreen started working again | 22:56 |
| slaine | (why do I feel the need to speak american when on irc) | 22:56 |
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| slaine | I'll ask about though | 22:56 |
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| lbt | they need to sell about 20 flavours... | 22:57 |
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| * lbt now has to explain red-light district ice-cream to mrs. lbt.... thanks Stskeeps... | 22:58 | |
| DawnFoster | lbt: you must be picky if you need 20 flavors | 22:58 |
| Stskeeps | sorry | 22:58 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 22:58 |
| slaine | http://www.botticelli.ie/ | 22:59 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: say the police advised us there | 22:59 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 22:59 |
| slaine | I've been then once, pretty nice | 22:59 |
| lbt | DawnFoster: it's about making the choice... | 22:59 |
| DawnFoster | Confession: I don't actually eat ice cream | 23:00 |
| lbt | <shock> | 23:00 |
| DawnFoster | well, not regular ice cream - I eat the kind made out of crazy stuff like soy, rice, almond :) | 23:00 |
| lbt | sorbet ;) | 23:00 |
| DawnFoster | I don't eat dairy | 23:00 |
| lbt | sorbet is water-ice | 23:00 |
| DawnFoster | haven't had any dairy in 15+ years :) | 23:01 |
| DawnFoster | yeah, I do eat sorbet | 23:01 |
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| lcuk | lbt, red light district ice cream! | 23:07 |
| CosmoHill | yay or nay? | 23:08 |
| lcuk | it must be strawberry flavour | 23:08 |
| lbt | lets just say it was unusually shaped | 23:08 |
| slaine | awe | 23:08 |
| lbt | and yes, bright red | 23:08 |
| lcuk | lol lbt! | 23:08 |
| slaine | you've put me off my strawberry jam on toast here | 23:09 |
| lcuk | :D | 23:09 |
| * CosmoHill steps back out of the conversation | 23:09 | |
| * lcuk just ate first meal in a few days | 23:09 | |
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| slaine | times are tough alright lcuk | 23:09 |
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| lcuk | lol slaine, for other reasons :P | 23:09 |
| slaine | I carried my bike to the mines to save rubber on't tires | 23:10 |
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| slaine | TIRES, you wur lucky, we'd a log that we tie us selves to and roll down mine shaft | 23:10 |
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| lcuk | in my day we had to walk uphill into the mines | 23:11 |
| * slaine giggles like a school girl | 23:12 | |
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| CosmoHill | slaine: well it is the weekend... | 23:12 |
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| slaine | it's also lack of sleep | 23:12 |
| slaine | wibble wibble | 23:12 |
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| * CosmoHill hands slaine coffee | 23:13 | |
| slaine | nom nom | 23:13 |
| lbt | turkish coffee eh? | 23:13 |
| TSCHAKeee | mmm, ibrik | 23:14 |
| TSCHAKeee | haven't used mine in a looong time | 23:14 |
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| lbt | Stskeeps, DawnFoster ... you know... I think we're simply asking MeeGo.com to act as a mirror for downloads.maemo.org ... that essentially sums it up. | 23:29 |
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| Stskeeps | lbt: that doesn't seem very clear to me :P | 23:30 |
| lbt | oh :( | 23:30 |
| DawnFoster | stskeeps: oh good, I thought I was missing something | 23:30 |
| lbt | downloads.maemo.org has all the open and closed libs from maemo sdk | 23:31 |
| DawnFoster | lbt: we will find a way to make this all work | 23:31 |
| lbt | I thought maybe that would be an "aha!" | 23:31 |
| lbt | apparently not... | 23:31 |
| * lbt goes back to another epic email... | 23:31 | |
| Stskeeps | lbt: still not understanding, sorry | 23:31 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 23:31 |
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| Stskeeps | you probably mean repository. | 23:32 |
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| lbt | well. if meego.com was 'just' a mirror for the sdk then the builder could use the content on the OBS server | 23:32 |
| lbt | and if a user did an osc build then the mirror is just sending a mirror copy down | 23:32 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: yeah, but in facto , repository.maemo.org is a nokia server | 23:32 |
| lbt | the mirror would have to be a Nokia affiliate | 23:33 |
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| lbt | to satisfy legal (and would have a grant to distribute to be clear) | 23:33 |
| lbt | we'd use the Eula to limit to signees | 23:33 |
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| Stskeeps | lbt: i think we need a made-in-GIMP flowchart to exactly explain the problem | 23:34 |
| lcuk | :D | 23:34 |
| auke-sfo | yay, free wifi at SFO airport | 23:34 |
| * lbt hi5s auke-sfo | 23:34 | |
| ScottishDuck | free as in beer not free as in freedom | 23:34 |
| auke-sfo | mmm beer | 23:35 |
| ScottishDuck | </stallman> | 23:35 |
| Stskeeps | auke-sfo: going on holidays? :) | 23:35 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: but now i'll go look at osc build | 23:35 |
| auke-sfo | renewing passport today | 23:35 |
| DawnFoster | auke -sfo: beer and free wifi - awesome | 23:35 |
| ScottishDuck | Looking forward to my weekend trip to stockholm | 23:35 |
| auke-sfo | already headed back to pdx | 23:35 |
| ScottishDuck | courtesy of PPSE | 23:35 |
| ScottishDuck | woop woop | 23:35 |
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| DawnFoster | wondering when SFO added free wifi | 23:35 |
| lbt | it goes through google | 23:36 |
| auke-sfo | DawnFoster: about time ;) | 23:36 |
| DawnFoster | wishing they had free wifi last year when I was flying to SFO every other week | 23:37 |
| Stskeeps | i like one of the helsinki ones, pay for 20 minutes, but after 20 mins, they forget to shut down alive TCP sessions | 23:37 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 23:37 |
| Stskeeps | (useful for ssh) | 23:37 |
| auke-sfo | lol | 23:37 |
| auke-sfo | supposedly there's only 45mins of free wifi tho | 23:37 |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, they will get you next time :P | 23:37 |
| auke-sfo | time to start downloading | 23:37 |
| lbt | Stskeeps: you're in the wrong hotel... | 23:37 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: airport | 23:38 |
| lbt | airport is free at Hel | 23:38 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: depending on location | 23:38 |
| ScottishDuck | Any of you familiar with stockholm? | 23:38 |
| ScottishDuck | any places I should visit? | 23:38 |
| lbt | Stskeeps: your on the wrong airline ;) | 23:38 |
| lbt | ScottishDuck: starbucks? | 23:38 |
| ScottishDuck | oh u | 23:39 |
| ScottishDuck | I have a mac so I've been there already | 23:39 |
| ScottishDuck | naturally | 23:39 |
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| auke-sfo | my plane better take me to pdx instead of helsinki ;) | 23:40 |
| ScottishDuck | I'm going with Ryanair to stockholm ._. | 23:41 |
| CosmoHill | ScottishDuck: poor you | 23:41 |
| * CosmoHill stopped reading at Ryan Air | 23:42 | |
| ScottishDuck | pretty much | 23:42 |
| ScottishDuck | I'll make sure to have plenty of Vodka at the election party | 23:42 |
| ScottishDuck | make the return flight more enjoyable | 23:42 |
| auke-sfo | ScottishDuck: ouch lol | 23:42 |
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| CosmoHill | Ryan Air flew mum's friend done, when he got back they said "you can't fly, you don't have a passport" | 23:44 |
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| CosmoHill | s/done/down/ | 23:44 |
| infobot | CosmoHill meant: Ryan Air flew mum's friend down, when he got back they said "you can't fly, you don't have a passport" | 23:44 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: this is a really nasty hack, but does osc support redirects? | 23:45 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 23:45 |
| ScottishDuck | I'm having to get a fast track passport | 23:45 |
| ScottishDuck | expensive :/ | 23:45 |
| ScottishDuck | I wish PPSE had given me an advance warning | 23:46 |
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| CosmoHill | ScottishDuck: ah | 23:46 |
| Stskeeps | PPSE? | 23:46 |
| ScottishDuck | Pirate Party Sweden | 23:46 |
| CosmoHill | dad got one of them via work, hand delivered to the house :) | 23:46 |
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| Stskeeps | ah | 23:46 |
| CosmoHill | (by via work I mean they paid for it) | 23:47 |
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| ScottishDuck | :/ | 23:47 |
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| lbt | Stskeeps: python library so yes | 23:48 |
| lbt | however... | 23:48 |
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| lbt | osc build does a download via both downloads and osc api "get binary" | 23:49 |
| lbt | we'd have to block that... doable though | 23:49 |
| Stskeeps | i'm pondering to severely abuse the mirror support | 23:49 |
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| lbt | Stskeeps: or we could just host the binaries and avoid the hacks... | 23:50 |
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| Stskeeps | if it can save us a lot of legal trouble, i'm all about hacks | 23:50 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 23:50 |
| lbt | but are there any legal troubles? | 23:51 |
| lbt | gsx | 23:51 |
| lbt | but then a "you may distribute to a registered users who demonstrate they have a device" letter | 23:51 |
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| DawnFoster | lbt: both potential legal issues with redistribution, but again, the issue about trying not to have closed source stuff in the community obs | 23:53 |
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| DawnFoster | *sounds like broken record* :) | 23:54 |
| lbt | DawnFoster: I don't understand why not. | 23:54 |
| lbt | this is Fremantle, not MeeGo | 23:54 |
| lbt | (now who's broken :) ) | 23:55 |
| DawnFoster | but you're talking about putting the closed source components in the meego community obs on the meego infrastructure at OSU | 23:55 |
| lbt | yes... | 23:55 |
| lbt | wait | 23:55 |
| lbt | not components | 23:55 |
| * auke-sfo online using meego chat client!!! awesome, it works | 23:55 | |
| DawnFoster | lbt: you know what I mean | 23:56 |
| CosmoHill | auke-sfo: yay | 23:56 |
| lbt | putting closed fremantle sdk binaries in a fremantle project on the OBS | 23:56 |
| *** pvdm has quit IRC | 23:56 | |
| * Stskeeps yawns | 23:56 | |
| auke-sfo | netbook version tho, no idea how far chat on handset is atm | 23:56 |
| lbt | DawnFoster: yes. but we need to be clear with each other | 23:56 |
| lbt | I think Quim thought MeeGo APIs were in-scope | 23:56 |
| lbt | they're not | 23:56 |
| DawnFoster | on the meego community obs hosted on the meego infrastructure at osu | 23:57 |
| DawnFoster | we talked this in circles this morning | 23:57 |
| lbt | as a way to absorb the maemo legacy community who make up much of the meego community | 23:57 |
| lbt | we are the same people | 23:57 |
| Stskeeps | i think we're all on the same page why we're doing this, just the method is escaping us a little :) | 23:57 |
| auke-sfo | DawnFoster: what about that? | 23:58 |
| DawnFoster | I still think there are technical solutions involving linking or using the maemo obs | 23:58 |
| lbt | evolving from maemo to meego | 23:58 |
| auke-sfo | ah the linking issue | 23:58 |
| DawnFoster | lbt: I have never disagreed with the "why" and the importance | 23:58 |
| lbt | DawnFoster: sure there are... but they cost | 23:58 |
| lbt | I know | 23:58 |
| DawnFoster | lbt: yes, I understand that | 23:58 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: so, my thought is simple.. | 23:58 |
| Stskeeps | (let's get down to technical details) | 23:58 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: osc build gets a list of mirrors from somewhere | 23:58 |
| Stskeeps | this mirror list would fail on the first mirror (main obs), and succeed on second mirror (maemo.org obs with binaries) | 23:59 |
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