IRC log of #meego for Tuesday, 2010-08-24

« Monday, 2010-08-23 Index Wednesday, 2010-08-25 »
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daftIf you have a MeeGo Phone and mini usb to ethernet. you never need any other recovery tooling ever. right?00:04
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thiago_homerecovery of what?00:07
thiago_homeof your computer? or of the phone?00:07
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daftWIndows boxes ofc00:08
thiago_homeI don't see how a phone would help you recover windows boxes00:08
daftsftp/netboot. with out how to get inet troubles00:09
thiago_homethat depends on whether your box has netboot capabilities00:09
thiago_homelive CD or USB are more reliable00:09
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daftreally?? only things that never gave me install problems where netboot and the 3 Debian floppies00:10
daftand then again. a cdrom does not give inet access..00:11
mikhasheh, nice idea actually00:13
daft^^00:14
mikhaseven if I use a CD, chances are it'll be vastly outdated, so you'd need a ton of updates first00:14
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daftYou can update you're meego boot image ^^00:15
daftyou use a cdrom to boot? Thats so 2009  outdated before you can burn it.00:17
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mikhaslol00:17
daftOr use a PC as a Meego Desktop terminal.00:19
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timeless_mbpsivang: got your email :)00:20
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* timeless_mbp wonders how to sign up for the conference00:22
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* timeless_mbp tries clicking "sign up now"00:23
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timeless_mbpcan someone tell me if i'm "signed up"?00:25
timeless_mbphttp://conference2010.meego.com/attendees doesn't seem to list me00:25
DawnFostertimeless: intel / nokia employees are being moderated00:26
DawnFosterwe're trying to make sure that we don't fill up the conference with Intel / Nokia people thus leaving no space for other attendees00:26
DawnFostertimeless: I checked & you are in the queue for approval00:27
mikhasDawnFoster, makes sense00:28
mikhasso there is a quota then?00:28
thiago_homethe point is that we want others to be able to give talks too00:28
DawnFosternot a formal quota right now - depends on how many people register & which talks get selected00:28
Phazorxcould some of these underutilized intel/nokia  employees help me deal with connman please? ;o)00:28
thiago_homeoh, attendees?00:29
DawnFosterthiago: yep, attendees are being moderated00:29
thiago_homeinteresting00:29
DawnFosterwith companies the size of Intel / Nokia, we could easily fill up the venue by ourselves00:29
DawnFosterthis way, we make sure that the right people are registered and that we aren't way out of balance compared to other attendees00:30
DawnFosterwe don't think it's going to be an issue00:31
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jedixPhazorx: what's your connman issues?00:36
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timeless_mbpthiago_home: hey00:40
timeless_mbpi was supposed to yell at you00:40
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timeless_mbpso… on windows and macosx "cancel" is not supposed to have an underlined letter00:40
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timeless_mbpyou're supposed to rely on a cancel stroke (esc, cmd-.)00:40
timeless_mbpbut i'm told that Qt's "cancel" button is underlining the 'c' in cancel automatically00:40
timeless_mbpcan you please ensure that it stops doing that? :)00:41
thiago_hometimeless_mbp: the style should take care of that00:41
timeless_mbpthiago_home: hr00:42
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timeless_mbpso, the project in question is http://bitbucket.org/tortoisehg/thg00:48
timeless_mbpthe cancel button appears here: http://cdn.bitbucket.org/tortoisehg/thg/downloads/Screenshot-commit.png00:48
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Phazorxjedix: on bootup it never connects to favorite (and only) wifi network00:49
Phazorxif i press cancel folowed by connect = it connects00:49
Phazorxif i want for ~90 seconds it borks with an error, and i hit connect (after retyping samekey) - it connects too00:50
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timeless_mbpthiago_home: does QStyle happen automatically or do you have to create it manually?00:57
thiago_homeit's automatic00:58
thiago_homedefaults to the Mac style on Mac and the native Windows on Windows00:58
thiago_home(XP, Vista or 7)00:58
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timeless_mbpwhat about unix? :)00:59
thiago_homethat's a lot more complex00:59
thiago_homeit may default to Plastique, GtkStyle, Clearlooks, CDE or whatever KDE sets as default00:59
thiago_homeor the MeeGo Touch Framework style on MeeGo00:59
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timeless_mbpheh01:00
timeless_mbpcan you guess from the picture? :)01:00
thiago_homethat looks like the Gtk or Clearlooks style01:01
timeless_mbpshould it be underlining the C ? :)01:01
thiago_homeI don't know, I never run that style01:02
* timeless_mbp kicks Qt01:03
timeless_mbpso i want to download Qt on OS X so i can run an app01:03
timeless_mbpand i get sent to http://qt.nokia.com/downloads01:03
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timeless_mbpfrom which i can't figure out how to download something01:03
timeless_mbptl;d-want-to-r01:03
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thiago_homethis link: http://qt.nokia.com/downloads/qt-for-open-source-cpp-development-on-mac-os-x01:04
thiago_homeor this: http://qt.nokia.com/downloads/sdk-mac-os-cpp01:05
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timeless_mbpgah, qt.nokia.com/downloads/ looks awful w/o js01:14
ShadowJKAtleast you don't need flash to see content, I hope?01:15
timeless_mbpum01:15
timeless_mbpthere's at least one youtube video (flash)01:15
ShadowJKSome nokia.com pages have habbit of putting a static image with hyperlink inside flash, and have the entire page built with that01:16
timeless_mbpyep01:17
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timeless_mbp> Welcome to the Qt installer! This will guide you through the steps to getting Qt 4.6 Opensource Edition installed on your machine!01:17
thiago_homethe video is just the lawyer explaining some licensing issues01:17
thiago_homechoose LGPL :-)01:17
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timeless_mbpthiago_home:  the spelling of 'opensource' there is odd01:18
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timeless_mbperr01:18
timeless_mbpwtf01:18
timeless_mbpdid your guys not try using their .mpkg?01:19
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ShadowJKWhat is a .mpkg?01:19
thiago_hometheir who?01:19
timeless_mbp.mpkg = multi .pkg01:19
timeless_mbpit's the osx installer format01:19
thiago_homethe .dmg contains an .mpkg01:19
timeless_mbpthiago_home: http://konigsberg.mozilla.org/qt463dpkg-installer-whitespace.png01:21
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thiago_homeright, the .dmg also contains an installer program01:23
timeless_mbpno01:23
timeless_mbpthat's the .mpkg01:23
thiago_homeyou mean the formatting?01:23
timeless_mbpyes01:23
thiago_homeI'm pretty sure it was fine last I tried01:23
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timeless_mbpi *just* downloaded it01:23
thiago_homeI didn't test 4.6.301:23
timeless_mbphttp://get.qt.nokia.com/qt/source/qt-mac-cocoa-opensource-4.6.3.dmg01:24
thiago_homeI haven't been doing packages for a while01:24
thiago_homethey were fine in my time :-)01:24
timeless_mbp...01:24
timeless_mbpshould i try to file a bug?01:24
timeless_mbpbtw, why did it offer me the choice of GPL or LGPL?01:24
thiago_homecouldn't hurt, choose component Installer01:24
timeless_mbpdid the lawyer mention GPL? because the download page didn't01:25
thiago_homeQt is actually tri-licensed with GPLv3 too01:25
timeless_mbpyeah, i know01:25
thiago_homethe LGPL license isn't "or any later version"01:25
thiago_homeso the GPLv3 is offered in addition, but most people don't care01:25
* timeless_mbp doesn't see a component installer01:25
timeless_mbpit defaults to GPLv301:26
timeless_mbpwhich seems stupid01:26
tripzerothiago_home, LGPL 2+ is "or any later version" though01:26
thiago_hometry Packaging01:26
thiago_hometripzero: that's not what Qt is though01:26
tripzerooh, okay01:26
timeless_mbptripzero:  it isn't +01:26
tripzeroyeah01:26
thiago_homeQt is commercial, LGPLv2.1, GPLv301:26
timeless_mbpthe lawyers aren't that stupid01:26
timeless_mbpin fact, the Qt lawyers seem pretty good01:26
tripzerodoes the "+" automatically mean v3?01:26
thiago_homeGPLv2+ is "2 or later"01:27
thiago_home3 is later than 2, so it applies01:27
timeless_mbppackages just has a bunch of packages01:27
tripzeroso any downstream can chose 2 or 3?01:27
tripzeros/downstream/consumer/01:27
infobottripzero meant: so any consumer can chose 2 or 3?01:27
thiago_hometimeless_mbp: project Qt, type Bug, component Packaging01:28
* tripzero never clearly understood what that menas01:28
timeless_mbpthiago_home: starting url?01:28
thiago_hometripzero: copyright holders decide which license they license their code under01:28
thiago_hometimeless_mbp: http://bugreports.qt.nokia.com/secure/CreateIssue!default.jspa01:28
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timeless_mbpthiago_home: how do i know if i have an account? :)01:28
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thiago_hometripzero: licensees choose one of the licenses that the copyright holders provided01:28
thiago_hometimeless_mbp: you'd know if you did :-)01:29
thiago_hometimeless_mbp: just drop me an email and I'll ask the team to check tomorrow01:29
timeless_mbpthiago_home: i filed bugs against one of the bug trackers01:29
thiago_homeone of?01:29
timeless_mbpyou guys changed at some point, i think… i've found the bug i filed in the past01:30
timeless_mbpit's a royal pain to find, but..01:30
thiago_homewell, the older system didn't have accounts01:30
thiago_homeso you must have account on the new one01:30
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timeless_mbpah01:31
thiago_homethe change is too late for RC1 though01:32
thiago_homepackages are frozen01:32
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TSCHAKeeeuuuuuuuuuuuggghhhhh. MODEST SUUUUUCKS!!!!! .... now it literally takes 5 minutes for me to open up my nokia messaging account. :(01:55
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timeless_mbpTSCHAKeee: i think you're in the wrong channel02:08
timeless_mbpunless someone has ported modest and nokia messaging to meego..02:08
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TSCHAKeeeyeah, you're right...02:09
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vlcnanyone running meego on a mini 210?04:38
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Cosmo[PB]cyas05:02
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zechohi , which is meego's appstore?06:50
zechointerl's Appup or Nokia's Ovi06:50
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lpotter_probably both at some point in the future07:10
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GAN900zecho, depends on who shipped your device, unfortunately.07:32
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faboAard: Qt Mobility update submitted09:38
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michaelg|nokfabo: which version is that now?09:40
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fabomichaelg|nok: still 1.0.2 except QtContact API updated to 1.1.0tp109:43
fabomichaelg|nok: I have added the QContactAction API09:43
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mohan43uI'm getting this error 'No protocol specified' when I run qemugl_cmd.sh..09:50
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mohan43usomeone please help..09:50
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mohan43uI'm getting this error 'Could not initialize SDL - exiting' any solutions?09:58
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jeremiahlbt: ping12:59
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lbtjeremiah: pong... but.... I'm busy today... will be around tomorrow.13:44
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vljdo you know if archos Android tablet can work with Meego ?14:03
Stskeepswhich one of them?14:03
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vljwell, let's say archos 514:03
Stskeepsthat's omap3 or how was it?14:04
vljno idea ^^14:04
vljsome arm processor are not supported ?14:04
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Stskeepsif it's omap3, get 2.6.35 on it, powervr/sgx working, then it's probably a breeze14:04
vlj(powervr/sgx provides drivers ??)14:04
thiagovlj: do you have the flasher tool for that tablet?14:05
vljno14:05
vlji don't have the tablet14:05
thiagodo you have access to the bootloader?14:05
vlji'm just considering buying one14:05
vljno idea14:05
vljthis is not a requirement ?14:05
thiagoyes it is14:05
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thiagohow are you going to make it boot MeeGo?14:05
vljI mean14:06
Stskeepsthiago: actually an angstrom exists for it, provided by archos14:06
vljhaving a bootloader is not a requirement in order to run android ?14:06
thiagovlj: it is14:06
thiagodo you know what bootloader that thing uses? Do you know how to make it boot MeeGo?14:07
vljno sorry :/14:07
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thiagoif it's an OMAP3, it probably can run MeeGo14:07
thiagobut someone must find a way of making it do that14:07
thiagoit's not evident with ARM platforms14:07
vljI would like to know if the future toshiba ac100 can do dual boot too14:09
vljbut no clue about that14:10
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kristian_mare the binary images for the n900 out by now?14:22
Stskeepsyes, https://tablets-dev.nokia.com/meego-codedrop.php14:22
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adeusNot Found14:24
Stskeepser, without https, http14:24
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DuckbootStskeeps: Any chance of seeing a image with modem-drivers on?14:28
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Stskeepshopefully in the next weeks14:29
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DuckbootStskeeps: Nice14:30
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WillWork4Foohi all14:34
CosmoHillhi14:35
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WillWork4FooI'm just having a look at Meego on my netbook, considering replacing Ubuntu Netbook Edition with it. It looks great! My only concern at this point is - I need to use a nonfree module in order to get my wifi to work. It's a Broadcom chipset, using the "wl" module from lib80211. It doesn't work OOTB, I'd need to install it. Ubuntu makes that pretty easy to do, you just tick a box and it happens. How would I go about install14:37
WillWork4Fooing that in MeeGo?14:37
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vljWillWork4Foo: do you have an atom based netbook ?14:38
WillWork4Foovlj: yes, it's got an Atom N370 processor14:39
WillWork4Foocorrection14:39
WillWork4FooN45014:39
vljas far as I know, Meego try to be as open source as possible14:39
WillWork4Foo!!!14:40
vljso you will need to build the kernel module for that chipset14:40
vlj+ probably14:40
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WillWork4Fooso I'd need to manually go and hack it together and plug it in myself?14:40
vljthere is no restricted hardware manager like in ubuntu sorry14:40
WillWork4Foosurely not - meego doesn't have the ability to just click and accept some terms and conditions14:41
WillWork4Foothat's a bit of a big gaping hole.14:41
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WillWork4Foosince quite a lot of the netbook wifi chipsets are not natively supported by open-source modules at this time, I'd say that was an enormous gaping hole.14:41
vljmaybe the module is not that hard to install14:41
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WillWork4Foohmm.14:41
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vljyou can try meego liveusb to see if wifi works out of the box but I think it won't14:42
vljMeego is still new so it lacks some features, like a "non free" repo14:44
vljhowever there are progress, meego can run on nvidia cards now14:44
WillWork4FooI've already tried meego live on the usb. that's why I'm liking it14:44
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vljand your wifi did not work ?14:44
WillWork4FooI prefer it to Ubuntu Netbook, I think the interface is better14:44
WillWork4Foono, the wifi didn't work.14:44
WillWork4FooAnd before I make the switch, I wanted to make sure I wasn't shooting myself in the foot.14:45
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WillWork4FooCan I install apt-get in meego?14:46
vljno14:46
Stskeepsno, we use zypper14:46
WillWork4FooI know it uses RPM instead14:46
WillWork4Fooah ok14:46
vljStskeeps: does it work ?14:46
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vljI always used yum14:46
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WillWork4Fooso in that case can it use all the repositories that Redhat / Fedora / whatever can use?14:46
vljI mean I use yum on Meego14:46
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vljbut it would be great if zypper was usable on Meego as I use it with opensuse14:47
vljWillWork4Foo: theoricaly yes14:47
WillWork4Foook...14:47
Carlxbah14:47
WillWork4Foothat would be fairly cool14:47
vljbut you are likely to meet dependencies conflict, package trying to overwrite system part, ...14:48
WillWork4Foofair enough.14:48
vljyou can submit a feature request in bugzilla14:48
vljand ask on meego forum for help14:49
vljdescribing the module ubuntu does use14:49
timeless_mbpStskeeps:  i thought someone ran into trouble w/ zypper14:49
* timeless_mbp walks away14:49
Carlxitaliani ci sono?14:50
adeusshould that .ks file work from there? I get a 40414:51
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vljwhich .ks ?14:53
adeusarm-n900.closed.ks14:53
adeusfrom that codedrop site14:53
jeremiahlbt: Okay, I'll try and catch you tomorrow14:54
Stskeepsno no14:55
Stskeepsget the weekly release ones14:55
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adeusok14:56
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adeushow about "AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'is_meego_bootstrap'"14:56
adeuswith the mic-image-creator14:56
adeusthe older(?) moblin-image-creator works14:57
WillWork4Fooaha.... http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=147&highlight=restricted14:57
WillWork4Foothis looks promising.14:58
WillWork4Foobrb14:58
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vljali1234: you told me Ubuntu used dkms...does meego use dkms as well ?14:59
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ali1234vlj: i don't think so but you can roll your own15:03
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vljit is hard to build dkms ? :/15:04
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ali1234it's hard to duplicate all dkms functionality, but you only need to build one module15:05
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* mdp wonders if the compliance people are on holiday/traveling15:14
Stskeepswhich question were your compliance one?15:15
mdpthe question regarding the intent of the term "re-packaging"15:15
Stskeepsah15:16
mdpI think I caught that mskarpness was just a stand-in for that meeting...not sure who the real owners of the compliant plan are15:16
mdps/compliant/compliance/15:16
infobotmdp meant: I think I caught that mskarpness was just a stand-in for that meeting...not sure who the real owners of the compliance plan are15:16
Stskeepsmdp: nah, he's in charge of compliance15:17
mdpok15:17
Stskeepseven on /about/governance and all15:17
mdp:)15:17
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mdphrm, not finding email for him15:23
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timeless_mbpthiago:  ping16:22
thiagotimeless_mbp: pong16:22
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timeless_mbpyou were going to hunt for an account?16:23
thiagotimeless_mbp: no, I was going to tell the guys about the issue you found16:23
thiagoI have already :-)16:23
timeless_mbpoh, that's better16:23
Macerrun and tell that!16:26
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RST38hthiago: Got a question that I hope you may be able to answer16:29
RST38hthiago: Does QPainter::scale() affect further calls to QPainter::drawImage()?16:29
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thiagoRST38h: I don't know16:33
thiagoyou need to ask that in #qt16:33
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RST38hthiago: #qt does not know16:41
RST38hoh well16:41
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thiago#qt-labs does, but that's a user question...16:41
RST38hok, let me try qt-labs16:42
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Stskeepsmorn anaZ16:46
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newbhelp please, I get "error: cannot open Packages database in /var/tmp/imgcreate-XimY_u/install_root/var/lib/rpm"16:46
newband then "yum.Errors.YumBaseError: Error: rpmdb open failed"16:47
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RST38hthiago: Not much luck there either.16:49
thiagoRST38h: you did get an answer16:50
thiago15:43 <+gunnar> RST38h: it does16:50
RST38hthiago: Yes, half of it16:50
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thiagowhat it uses depends on the painting backend16:50
thiagoif you're using the raster engine, it uses SIMD-optimised methods16:50
RST38hthiago: Ok, let me clarify: N900. Maemo5. Qt 4.7.16:50
thiagoif you're using the native engine, it will use XRender if possible (and not slow)16:50
thiagoif you're using the opengles engine, it will use OpenGL ES16:51
thiagothat version defaults to the native engine16:51
thiagotry running your app with the three engines and measure results16:51
thiagoappname -graphicssystem native|raster|opengles16:51
RST38hah, interresting =)16:51
RST38hDoes Maemo5 Qt implement the opengles engine at all?16:52
thiagoyes16:52
thiagothough you may find that the raster engine produces better results16:52
thiagoit just consumes more CPU16:52
thiagothe SGX and the GL driver aren't very good on the N90016:53
RST38hthiago: raster will be slower than my own code16:53
thiagoyour code is GL?16:53
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RST38hopengles has a remote chance to be faster16:53
RST38hno, arm assembly hand-optimized for a fixed set of scale ratios16:54
thiagoah, I see16:54
thiagothen I actually doubt that it'll be any faster16:54
thiagogood assembly code, especially if you used Neon, will probably be faster16:54
RST38hthiago: not even using neon16:55
RST38hthiago: carefully looked at neon instruction set, nothing that can be used directly there16:55
thiagohttp://labs.trolltech.com/blogs/2010/08/24/improving-the-rendering-performance-with-more-simd/16:56
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RST38hthiago: yea, I am doing all this stuff with generic arm instructions16:56
thiagobut if you can do SIMD, wouldn't it be somewhat faster?16:57
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RST38hno16:57
RST38hConsider this16:57
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RST38hTake 5:6:5 color (used in Maemo), that is 16 bits. Spread then to16:59
RST38h30 bits (10 per component)16:59
RST38hYou can use one bit per component to detect overflow, and 4 for fractional part16:59
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RST38hYou can now do the standard stuff (ADD, SUB, shifts) on these, in SIMD fashion17:00
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RST38hDoing the same with Neon is also possible but it will not be faster: Neon sits at the end of something like 11-stage pipeline and uses specific data formats17:00
RST38hwhich you will have to convert to/from using... right, generic ARM instructions :)17:01
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nialanick koupsaa17:21
nialaoups sorry hello17:21
CosmoHillhi17:23
nialaah \/nick koupsaa don't work ?17:24
CosmoHillalready in use17:25
CosmoHillyou'd probably have to wait for it to time out17:25
timeless_mbpor register and rely on ghost killings17:25
CosmoHillI read that as global :/17:26
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CosmoHillwell I'm off to fix a PC, bye bye17:26
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nialathe problem today is: gpk-application gpk-xxx disappeared in panel-application ??? :) lol but desktop file are in /usr/share/applications and progs gpk-xxx works from term17:27
nialacurious isn-t it?17:29
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nialasecond: https://build.meego.com/   chromium tell me not a valid certificat17:30
nialashould I accept certificate?17:31
timeless_mbpno17:31
X-Fadeniala: Decide if you trust the Intel CA.17:31
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nialammm intel can't have a valid certificat ? :p17:32
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DawnFosterwas it an intel certificate?17:33
X-FadeYour browser doesn't know every item in the CA chain.17:33
DawnFostershould be Linux Foundation17:33
DawnFosterI've had issues with chrome / chromium not recognizing valid certs (even from Google) :)17:34
X-FadeDawnFoster: Intel External Basic Issuing CA 3A17:34
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Stskeepssubject=/C=US/ST=Oregon/L=Hillsboro/O=MeeGo Project/OU=Build Service/CN=api.meego.com/emailAddress=build@meego.com17:34
Stskeepsissuer=/C=US/O=Intel Corporation/CN=Intel External Basic Issuing CA 3A17:34
DawnFosterok, thanks - I'll file a bug to get it changed17:35
Stskeepsso i guess it qualifies for LF :)17:35
StskeepsDawnFoster: i think it's just signed by intel, unless LF has their own CA17:35
DawnFosterissuer shouldn't be Intel, it should be LF17:35
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nialacool my first bug! :)17:35
X-FadeDawnFoster: No, the issuer should be a known CA.17:35
* thiago agrees17:35
X-FadeDawnFoster: And LF isn't.17:35
thiagowithout a valid CA, all browsers will give a warning17:36
DawnFosterhmmm17:36
X-FadeDawnFoster: It should be verisign, thawte or something like that.17:36
X-FadeNotice that https://meego.com, does use a proper CA.17:36
DawnFosterwell, it probably shouldn't be Intel - I'll let the sys admins figure out the right one17:36
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X-FadeHehe, godaddy.com ;)17:37
DawnFosteryeah, that's what I'll suggest :)17:37
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nialasorry for stupid question but, how to have a valid login for build.meego and what is it? third party software? if i do my qt app where tu submit? build.meego ?17:41
nialas/tu/to17:41
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DawnFosterfiled a bug - feel free to add more details in comments: http://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=572217:46
DawnFosterniala: I think you probably should be using the community OBS.17:46
DawnFosterbuild.meego.com is only for building the main distribution17:46
mardyStskeeps: Hi, I've seen the patches you sent to meego-dev about the SGX driver. Did IT release it as open source?17:46
StskeepsDawnFoster: the flipside of the cert discussion is that intel can probably sign for free ;)17:47
Stskeepsmardy: hm? SGX kernel driver has always been OSS17:47
DawnFosterniala: community OBS status: http://wiki.meego.com/Build_Infrastructure/Community_Builder17:47
Stskeepsit's the libraries that aren't17:47
X-FadeStskeeps: Yes and these are more complex certs.17:47
DawnFosterlbt might have more details17:47
X-FadeStskeeps: As they have more DNS names included.17:47
DawnFosterwell, I've filed the bug & they may tell me that it's not a bug :)17:48
lcukDawnFoster, that cycle accident sounds quite nasty :(17:49
StskeepsDawnFoster: thanks17:49
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DawnFosterlcuk: no kidding! I've been afraid to look up the details - a bicyclist doesn't have much chance against a garbage truck17:49
mardyStskeeps: oh, didn't know. :-) Cool!17:50
lcuknot really17:50
Stskeepswhat cycle accident?17:50
DawnFosterI posted it on Twitter.17:50
lcukStskeeps, dawn twittered17:50
Stskeepsah17:50
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DawnFosterA cyclist was hit by a garbage truck a few blocks from my house17:50
UlfHofemeierEek!17:50
DawnFosterwe had news helicopters circling the neighborhood all morning17:50
UlfHofemeierLet's hope he'll make it.17:51
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DawnFosterstskeeps: you need some tough skin to submit patches in this group :)18:06
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nialammm in meego user can add/remove every programs with gpk-application. question is about security. everybody who take my notebook meego can do everything?18:06
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nialaand do mistake error and conflict18:07
timeless_mbpniala: they can use a screwdriver18:07
timeless_mbpand remove the hard disk18:07
timeless_mbpand then stick it into another computer18:07
timeless_mbpand do whatever18:07
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timeless_mbppossession is 9/10ths18:07
timeless_mbpsimilarly, if i have a gun to your head, i can probably get you to give me the pin to your bank18:07
timeless_mbpi don't have any guns, but that's a minor obstacle18:08
romanovskyladies and gentlemen: i am holding an (very early) prototype of the famous N9...i have 15 minutes to answer your questions...the prototype is not mine so hurry. GO!18:08
nialatimeless, true :)18:08
StskeepsDawnFoster: i'm just the guy who ends up with the bomb in his lap in this particular case :)18:09
Stskeepsso not taking it personally18:09
DawnFosterStskeeps: at least Greg-kh is funny when he mocks you openly :)18:09
timeless_mbpStskeeps:  http://www.dyberryfireworks.com/ChinaCherryBombCrackers.jpg18:09
DawnFosterstskeeps: those of us who stick around long enough to do anything interesting have probably learned not to take it personally18:10
romanovskyno one interested ?18:10
X-Faderomanovsky: No.18:12
X-FadeWe all have one already, you are just late :)18:12
romanovskyyour loss mates18:12
lcukDawnFoster, perhaps when internals do reviews of submitted patches and give feedback, when the reviewer is acting in an official manner, they could link to a "don't take this personally" style wiki page on the mail18:13
romanovskythe thing is incerdibly well made....feels solid...maybe because its a proto...the aluminum helps18:13
lcuk"we aim to get the best quality patches here and please submit more ..."18:13
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DawnFosterlcuk: what do you mean by "internals"18:14
lcukanyone with commit rights who will actually be taking the submited patch further18:14
lcukthe person reviewing18:14
romanovskycamera doesnt work yet....keyboard feels solid...18:14
timeless_mbpromanovsky: so, please read the irc logs18:15
romanovskythe slide is tight as hell.... no final decision has been made if the slide will tilt18:15
timeless_mbpit is not considered acceptable to talk about imaginary hardware which is not available from an official outlet18:15
DawnFosterlcuk: this is one of those open source culture things that is always difficult for people who haven't worked in open source before18:16
DawnFosterit's more of an implied thing18:16
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romanovskyok....one last chance folks18:16
lcuksure it is, I have seen a couple of examples of similar before18:16
DawnFosterwe'll never get people to include it because they consider it a given18:16
lcukits like getting marked off teachers!18:16
timeless_mbps/its/it's/18:17
timeless_mbps/off/off by/18:17
DawnFosternah, it's more like being helped to make something awesome by someone who has done it before18:17
infobottimeless_mbp meant: it is not considered acceptable to talk about imaginary hardware which is not available from an off byicial outlet18:17
lcuk:D thanks timeless_mbp, shall remeber18:17
lcukremember even18:17
DawnFosterhowever, it can be really difficult for new community members18:18
lcukDawnFoster, reasonable enough indeed!18:18
timeless_mbpDawnFoster:  the create attachment page could provide a link to review hints18:18
DawnFosterthis is one of the biggest struggles we see when we talk about getting more people involved in open source18:18
timeless_mbpcurrently it has that annoying disclaimer blob18:18
timeless_mbpwhich is just pain18:18
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timeless_mbpgiving some candy … helpful advice … would balance it out18:18
lcuk++18:19
DawnFostertimeless: sorry - which create attachment page?18:19
DawnFosterbugzilla?18:19
timeless_mbpyeah18:19
DawnFosterI like the idea of candy :)18:19
timeless_mbpi'm not sure if the mailing lists have description pages18:19
timeless_mbpthe symbian equivalents do18:19
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timeless_mbpyou could stick similar content there if they exist18:19
timeless_mbp(and you could create such pages if they don't...)18:20
timeless_mbpbonus points for sticking them into a wiki instead of into mailman or whatever18:20
lcuks/you/we/18:20
DawnFostertimeless: dang, now I have another task on my to do list :)18:20
timeless_mbpi'm using "you" because i don't consider myself fully part of the community18:20
timeless_mbpi should be, but the "community" hasn't welcomed me enough18:20
DawnFostersure you are18:20
timeless_mbpuntil then, i have to use "you" instead of "we"18:20
timeless_mbpand "we" is problematic, because I don't want to be seen as using <royal>we18:21
DawnFosteryou want to take a shot at writing the content for that page?18:21
timeless_mbpgrr18:21
DawnFosterjust offering18:21
DawnFoster:)18:21
timeless_mbpi think lcuk probably has a better idea what should go in it ;-)18:21
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timeless_mbpi'll gladly do a review or rewrite18:21
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timeless_mbpbut i hate writing from scratch18:21
timeless_mbpi prefer editing18:21
romanovskywow....a lot of arguing here i see.... very productive :-)18:22
DawnFosteranyone want to take a first shot at writing a page that we can link to from bugzilla, mailing lists, etc?18:22
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lcukonce my painkillers kick in, I will try to writeup some notes later and see if can get the ball rolling for it.18:23
leinirromanovsky: It is, yes :) i'm quite happy to see this channel so active, personally :) (but then, i'm just me ;) )18:23
timeless_mbpromanovsky:  "arguing" is not the right word18:24
DawnFosterlcuk: cool, thanks18:24
timeless_mbpdid you mean "discussion" ?18:24
DawnFosterwe can also link to the new contribution guidelines that I finally got online yesterday: http://meego.com/about/contribution-guidelines18:24
timeless_mbpDawnFoster++18:24
romanovskyyawn18:25
lcuk++ indeed18:25
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mdpDawnFoster, is it possible to get email info for people listed on Governance?18:26
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DawnFosterthere should be a link to their profile from governance & you should be able to send them a message through meego.com18:26
lcuktimeless_mbp, did you see the facial recognition stuff on N900 posted around recently?  the guy who does it is a doctorate at Manchester university, I sent him a mail talking about his stuff and potential ways to expand on his work and for crossover uses :)18:27
lcukhttp://personalpages.manchester.ac.uk/staff/philip.tresadern/proj_facerec.htm if not18:27
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timeless_mbplcuk:  i saw the /. bit about it18:27
lcukyeah, biggest individual issue atm with using facial recognition is the camera is very dark and you need ideal lighting18:28
lcuki hope that on other devices the face camera works better :)18:28
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lcukthe n810 camera was great for it18:28
lcukeven with all its snow18:29
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timeless_mbplcuk: i think the pattern here is to only develop the non face camera18:29
timeless_mbpand deal w/ the face camera later18:30
timeless_mbpbecause customers initially check the quality of the device as if it were a real digital camera18:30
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timeless_mbpat least, that seems to describe the n90018:30
lcuksure, but the face camera does have its uses for sure18:30
timeless_mbpand if you're a management bean counter, wouldn't you do precisely that for precisely that reason?18:30
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lcukyup18:31
timeless_mbpoh sure, as an engineer who isn't short sighted, I agree18:31
timeless_mbpi'm expressing a belief about certain other classes of people18:31
hurrokI'm just installed the latest meego (ivi) and want to compile a kernel module for it, yum info kernel-headers shows they are already installed, but they aren't. also, the kernel-headers on the repo are outdated, does anyone know how i can get around this?18:31
timeless_mbphurrok:  the kernel-headers are supposedly "compatible"18:32
timeless_mbpyou can read a bug about them if you're curious18:32
slonopotamustimeless_mbp: that can't be true18:32
hurrokcompatible and read a bug about them, this sounds promising :p18:32
slonopotamustimeless_mbp: if they were, closed drivers wouldn't break on each kernel update18:32
mdpDawnFoster, ok, I can get to the profile, but just see the irc nick and a link for the blog18:33
timeless_mbpslonopotamus / hurrok: http://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=370218:33
hurrokcheers18:33
timeless_mbpslonopotamus:  maybe there's a distinction between userspace and kernelspace api?18:34
timeless_mbphurrok:  anyway, for your purposes, you probably need to get the source for the kernel instead of the kernel headers package18:34
timeless_mbpkernel headers according to the bug is for userspace, not kernelspace18:34
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timeless_mbpbut…. feel free to read the bug, it's actually relatively useful18:34
hurroki will do, thanks18:34
timeless_mbp(maemo bugs tend to have much more noise and much less content)18:34
timeless_mbps/content/signal/18:35
infobottimeless_mbp meant: (maemo bugs tend to have much more noise and much less signal)18:35
hurrokhah18:35
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leinirPoor guy - shame that n9-what's-his-face guy wasn't in here, i'm sure he'd have had plenty of questions ;)18:37
DawnFostermdp - who are we talking about?18:37
mdpmark skarpness18:37
mdptrying to get his attention about a compliance program question18:38
DawnFostermdp: did you have a specific question about compliance?18:38
mdpyes, posted on -community as requested18:38
DawnFosterhave you asked it in meego-community?18:38
DawnFosterok, cool18:38
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DawnFosterI just sent him a note asking him to respond18:40
DawnFostermdp: we probably just don't have a clear answer for that yet18:40
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DawnFosterthe compliance docs are still a work in process18:40
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DawnFosterfirst draft should be ready for people to review / comment at the end of this month18:41
mdpok, thx18:41
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DawnFosterand should have everything final by 1.1 release in oct/nov timeframe18:41
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timeless_mbpDawnFoster:18:43
timeless_mbp> For kernel patches, configuration changes and drivers we will have more precise guidelines available shortly.18:43
timeless_mbpi'm not a fan of shortly18:43
timeless_mbpcould you specify a quarter (2010Q3) or a month?18:43
timeless_mbpyou can use "we hope to"18:43
leinirit smells of "Soon(TM)" ;)18:43
DawnFostertimeless: well I wanted to get what I had out and not wait for the rest18:43
timeless_mbpyeah, i understand18:44
DawnFosterI'm going to try to get it posted this week18:44
timeless_mbpoh, that's a reasonable form of shortly :)18:44
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DawnFosterI've seen a draft and I based much of the other document on an abstracted version of the kernel guidelines.18:45
DawnFosterI always try to get what I have out now and not be held up by other stuff18:45
timeless_mbp> Other MeeGo Project Contributions18:45
timeless_mbpdoesn't mention irc18:45
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DawnFostertimeless: good point18:46
timeless_mbpDawnFoster:  the page is text heavy18:46
timeless_mbpa flowchart would be nice18:46
timeless_mbp(boy, i must work for nokia)18:46
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: also, the flowchart must be visibly made in Paint18:47
Stskeeps?18:47
timeless_mbpStskeeps: the flow chart must have lines which criss-cross and aren't level?18:47
timeless_mbp… and some lines must be missing directional arrows18:47
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DawnFosterok - added IRC18:47
DawnFosternot a fan of flowcharts18:48
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timeless_mbp<does the patch belong upstream> -> ( send it upstream )18:48
timeless_mbp |18:48
timeless_mbp v18:48
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timeless_mbp<choose bugzilla or mailinglist> -> (send patch to meego-dev)18:48
timeless_mbp |18:48
timeless_mbp v18:48
timeless_mbp(create attachment in bugzilla)18:48
timeless_mbp \              |18:48
timeless_mbp    v18:48
timeless_mbp<did you get a response in 5 business days> -> (be happy)18:49
timeless_mbp |18:49
timeless_mbp v18:49
timeless_mbp(escalate)18:49
timeless_mbpi'm personally not a fan of flow charts at all18:49
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timeless_mbpbut your page risks "tl;dr"18:49
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lcukI think that flowchart should be pasted directly :P18:49
timeless_mbpand there's no way for me to know that i want "Escalation"18:49
timeless_mbpthere's an idiotic group here which used "escalate" a lot.18:50
timeless_mbpbut outside of that group, i've never really seen the word used, so it isn't a word i would scan for18:50
timeless_mbpa flow chart would make it obvious18:50
DawnFostermpb: mark is going to try to respond this morning18:53
DawnFostertimeless: I'm starting to agree on the flowchart18:53
timeless_mbp:)18:53
DawnFosterI'm also graphically challenged :)18:54
timeless_mbpyou can try using "dot"18:54
DawnFosterbut this is simple enough - anyone want to take a shot at making it pretty?18:55
timeless_mbpStskeeps:  you're the one who knows what not to do ;-)18:55
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DawnFostertimeless: I don't think stskeeps is taking the bait :)18:58
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timeless_mbpit was worth a try18:59
timeless_mbpi'm trying google's docs18:59
CosmoHillhave you tried worms?19:00
niala(and lemmings before worms)19:01
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Stskeepssorry, was laying in bed reading a book :P19:02
lcukStskeeps, thats not good since your missus is waiting for her dinner :P19:02
Stskeepslcuk: already sorted19:03
lcuk++19:03
lcuk:D19:03
timeless_mbphttps://docs.google.com/drawings/edit?id=1Y7T4kfYW5xoppuItd3gCdKr7vxVz2jP21MU0X_BtSjc&hl=en&authkey=CJWvxNEL19:04
timeless_mbpis what i'm starting w/19:04
sivangtimeless_mbp: nice and simple :)19:04
sivangonce it gets more complicated, flow charting is kills you over or overkill :)19:05
Stskeepsi vote for a text adventure game19:05
Stskeeps"submit bad kernel patch -> you got eaten by a grue"19:05
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DawnFosterI like stskeeps' idea :)19:06
lcukStskeeps, I approve of this mechanism19:06
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* lcuk used to want email delivery via doom, if oyu make it to the virtual recipients desk it arrives, if not the mail is lost in post19:07
hlosfananyone going to meego dev day in sf?19:07
DawnFostertimeless: looking good19:07
DawnFosterhiosfan: I'll be there19:07
hlosfani'm 50/5019:08
DawnFosterI'm giving a short talk during lunch about the meego community19:08
DawnFosterquim will be there, too19:08
hlosfannioce19:08
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DawnFosterI'll also be attending some of the meego sessions at idf on Monday19:08
timeless_mbpanyone know how to increase the size of a google drawing?19:08
hlosfanwhat's idf19:09
DawnFosterIntel Developer Forum19:09
DawnFosterhttp://www.intel.com/idf/19:09
hlosfanshould we  write meego apps in english 1st or european langs 1st?19:10
lcukhlosfan, I recommend writing in qt first19:10
hlosfanqt no prob19:10
sivangtimeless_mbp: almost like a silent webinar19:10
Jaffahlosfan: Depends what language you think your translator base will be speaking.19:11
hlosfancurious where mass market of devices will be first19:11
RST38hdoing them in Chinese or Japanese is more eleet.19:11
hlosfanlol19:11
hlosfan 不好19:12
RST38hBTW, I hope Unicode has a page for ancient Egyptian...19:12
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hlosfansarcastic dude19:14
timeless_mbpDawnFoster: ok, check that url?19:15
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hlosfanthis still cracks me up http://consumertrack.blogspot.com/2010/08/clownsumers-at-it-again-nokia-n9-leaked.html   i wanna see more leaks19:15
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timeless_mbpDawnFoster: ok, do you want a PNG, JPG, SVG or PDF? :)19:22
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DawnFosterlooks great! How about png?19:43
DawnFosterand svg in case we need to edit it later19:44
timeless_mbpok, where do you want them?19:46
thopiekarwhere can I get the emgd driver from?19:46
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timeless_mbpi suppose i can stick them on mxr.meego.com :)19:46
thopiekarwant to make it work with ubuntu19:46
DawnFostertimeless_mbp: that works19:47
timeless_mbphttp://mxr.meego.com/ContributingapatchtoMeeGo.png http://mxr.meego.com/ContributingapatchtoMeeGo.svg19:48
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Stskeepsthe world is coming to an end, cnn.com has news story comments..19:58
lcuknahh the world will come to an end when they use those comments as articles themselves :P20:00
Stskeepslcuk: that happens on danish newspapers..20:00
lcukits not a bad thing, slashdot allows comments to be promoted up through the firehose20:01
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DawnFostertimeless: thanks so much for pulling this together!20:04
sivangStskeeps: just now? at least they did not wait with it for the weekend :)20:05
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vljhi20:11
vljerr20:11
vljI can't add an icon app to MyApp zone ?20:11
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slaineYou can pin it20:15
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slainethat'll mark it as a "favorite" and display it on the MyZone20:16
vljI would like to add qtcreator20:16
vljbut it does not appear20:16
vljthere is no icon to pin20:16
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slaineIt should appear in Programming20:16
vlj?20:16
vljI don't have any categories20:17
vljjust a panel with a lot of icons20:17
slainethis the netbook or the handheld ux ?20:17
slaineIf it's the later, I don't know anything about it20:17
vljnetbook20:17
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slaineon netbook you should have an Applications icon in the MeeGo toolbar20:17
vljyup20:18
vljand I have no qtcreator in it20:18
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slaineOk, on there, you'll get a page split with fav's on the left and a separated list of applications on the main boady20:18
slainebody20:18
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slaineThe title for the section has an arrow that indicates it's expandable or collapsable20:18
vljyes20:19
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slaineQTCreator should have created a new Programming section20:19
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slaineAssuming you installed the rpm20:19
vljslaine: http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/5089/capturemf.png20:20
vljI have installed20:20
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vljI can run qtcreator within a terminal20:20
vljthere is no arrow20:20
slaineeek, that looks nothing like mine20:21
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vljhow yours look like ?20:21
slaineI don't have mine to hand, but the site has shots that show what mine looks like20:22
slainehttp://meego.com/sites/all/files/users/u3/meego-netbook-app-launcher.png20:22
vljhmm20:22
slaineunless there's a preference that you have to enable ??20:23
slaineShit, I've to go catch a bus20:23
slaineI'll be online later20:23
slainesorry20:23
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vljok20:23
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lcukDawnFoster, are you sure you want to publically ask people to ignite portland?20:28
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lcukpublicly even20:28
DawnFostersure - why not?20:28
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lcukDawnFoster, pyromaniacs!!oneone111!!20:29
DawnFosterit's held at a local theater in Portland & we usually have 600+ people attending20:29
DawnFosterha!20:29
DawnFosterno real fires allowed :)20:29
lcukthats good then :D20:29
DawnFosteryeah, we also live stream it20:29
DawnFosterI've been one of the organizers since the beginning20:30
DawnFosterit's a fun event20:30
lcukawesome20:30
arjanportland is very mellow20:30
lcukdo you have specific infrastructure for the streaming?20:30
arjanonly fake fire allowed20:30
lcukor is it just normal apps and bandwidth?20:30
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DawnFosterwe have a guy at Blaze Streaming Media who does it for us20:32
DawnFosterhe brings in his own bandwidth20:32
DawnFosterhe does a lot of corporate & tech events.20:33
DawnFosterapparently, we love to name things after fire20:33
DawnFosterhttp://www.blazestreaming.com/20:33
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lcuklol DawnFoster20:35
vljwhat is the command to update desktop database ?20:35
arjandesktop database?20:36
vljalso the icon things like that20:36
arjanthere's no real database for that20:37
arjanit's a directory20:37
DawnFostervlj: does this help: http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_1.0_Netbook_FAQ#How_can_I_get_my_newly_installed_application_to_appear_in_the_menu.3F20:37
arjanyou can argue that a directory with files is a database ;)20:37
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arjanbut that's more a meta discussion that should be had over beer20:37
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DawnFostervlj: that link has details about creating the directory files to specific icons20:38
DawnFosterbasically, what arjan said, but with links :)20:38
vljDawnFoster: the issue is that qtcreator should already provide its icon20:38
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DawnFostervlj: the icon for qtcreator itself or apps created with qt?20:39
vljfor qtcreator itself20:39
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DawnFosterhmm, the icon appeared just fine when I installed it on meego netbook20:40
vljnot here20:40
DawnFosterhow did you install it?20:41
vljwith the dedicated app20:41
vljthe "manage my app"20:41
vljI'm reinstalling it with yum right now20:41
vljhum20:41
vljit appeared :p20:41
DawnFostersweet! magic20:41
vljis there 2 differents package manager ??20:41
vljI mean there is zypper and yum20:42
vljbut they "work" together or ...?20:42
DawnFosternot sure - I've mostly used zypper on meego20:42
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vljI mostly use yum :p20:43
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vljqml is hard to use20:45
lcukwhy?20:46
vljit's not that intuitive20:46
vljin my opinion20:46
vljI like qt20:47
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tripzeroit's javascript20:47
vljthe link between qml and qt c++ is not...obvious20:48
tripzeroright20:48
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vljbut the results are quite impressing according to demo on qt website20:51
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vljarjan: what about adding dkms to meego ?20:53
vljthis would allow for easier management for non free driver20:53
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mdpqml looks an awful lot like EFL's Edje layout/state descriptor language20:54
vljELF ?20:54
mdpenlightenment foundation libraries20:55
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lcukmdp, and they both look like any other markup language, html/xml being more notable than edje :P21:02
lcukused in a "few" more places etc ;)21:02
mdplcuk, hehe21:02
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vljis there any tutorial on qml/C++ ?21:03
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mdpnone of it is very readable :)21:03
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lcukmdp, both are much more readable than brainf*ck so we can be happy for some things21:04
mdpindeed21:04
* lcuk once tried to code in brainf*ck21:04
RST38hlcuk: you should have tried SML instead21:05
lcukaccording to wikipedia, SML is seemingly normal21:05
RST38hMy favorite is, of course, YaMB, but there is no way you will find hardware for that21:05
RST38hlcuk: in a way, yes21:06
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lcukRST38h, thats so obscure I can only find links to unrelated21:10
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thiagomdp: most of the material is still being prepared, for the launch21:53
thiagothere's some online documentation and the examples, though21:53
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sp3000"Local Folders has 0 new messages." thanks, shredder! ;)22:54
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