IRC log of #meego for Thursday, 2010-08-19

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vgrade	ali1234 gcc-4.5.0-6.3 fails with 'nothin provides mpc-devel' when built against meego:1.0:core on build.obs.maemo.org	00:00
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ali1234	yeah sounds like the problem i have	00:00
ali1234	if you tell it to build gcc and mpc then it will build first mpc, then gcc, then mpc again, and at that point it fails	00:01
CosmoHill	could you try "--nodeps" ?	00:01
ali1234	because gcc now depends on mpc to run	00:01
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vgrade	there is no problem, if you use a build repository which is matched to the gcc version it works	00:01
ali1234	i cannot use a meego repository	00:01
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vgrade	why not, what am I missing	00:02
ali1234	meego repositories need ssse3	00:02
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vgrade	still not getting it	00:04
ali1234	my machine does not have ssse3	00:04
MaikelZ	@ ali1234 so you need a repos sever for non-ssse3 only?	00:04
vgrade	evening arjan	00:05
ali1234	MaikelZ: yes, i need meego compiled for non-ssse3 in order to build meego for non-ssse3	00:05
vgrade	so you need to use the maemo OBS	00:05
ali1234	no, i don't "need" to use the maemo OBS	00:06
ali1234	i need to figure out how to hack enough meego packages so that they compile on fedora or opensuse, and then use them to build meego	00:06
vgrade	ok, you could use it	00:06
ali1234	so does the meego:current prjconf have a line like "Require: mpc"	00:09
ali1234	cos what you pasted yesterday doesn't	00:09
ali1234	so i am confused as to how it ends up inside the buildroot	00:09
vgrade	the one I posted was the meego:1.0:core one not the meego:current one	00:09
vgrade	sec I'll post	00:10
ali1234	ty	00:10
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vgrade	the meego:current prjconf does not have any reference to mpc, but it is installed from the build cache, I guess due to the gcc spec. http://pastebin.com/K3F9eby0	00:21
ali1234	well... that makes no sense	00:22
ali1234	i see it gets installed on line 200	00:22
ali1234	but that is when building gcc	00:23
ali1234	what happens when it subsequently tries to rebuild mpc?	00:23
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CosmoHill	on my left I have ali1234, on my right I have Grumpy Old Men on bbc2	00:23
vgrade	sec, I'll upload that source package to the OBS	00:24
sivang	so I don't get it- I signed up for the conference, and now it wants me to book the hotel?	00:25
sivang	but what if I can attend only if I get some travel assistance?	00:25
sivang	then I want to book only if I get that assistance	00:26
sivang	and what are the proper dates? :)	00:26
sivang	the interface let's me choose from 12/Nov to 19/Nov .	00:27
* sivang is confused.		00:27
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ali1234	the real conf is 13/14/15th	00:28
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ali1234	but you might want to arrive the day before hence 12th	00:28
ali1234	i dunno about the rest	00:28
sivang	the dates on the banner say 15-17 :)	00:29
ali1234	lol wat	00:29
ali1234	i need to check this	00:29
sivang	https://cpregistrations.com/MeeGo2010/default.asp?page=reg-participant&wizard.stage=2&wizard.session=82215	00:29
sivang	can you check this?	00:29
ali1234	hmm yeah that's right actually 15th is a monday	00:30
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ali1234	i must have been thinking of NDS	00:32
DawnFoster	sivang: you can wait to book your hotel	00:32
* thiago_home wonders if he should register too		00:33
* ali1234 had flight and hotel booked before the conf registration was even open		00:35
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vgrade	ali1234, mpc upoaded to OBS, blocked waiting for cpp as gcc bulid is in progress	00:42
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trem	nite all, sweet dreams	00:47
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ali1234	awesome, rpm actually managed to build without the unpackaged files error	01:00
ali1234	rpm from 1.0.1 against fedora 13 that is :)	01:01
mdp	hrm, thinking about that compliance discussion...made me wonder about the whole gtk thing in the architecture	01:01
ali1234	and now it is building it... again?	01:01
ali1234	oh well, w/e	01:01
mdp	so gtk is by definition part of the middleware and therefore part of MeeGo Core	01:02
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mdp	but yet it's not part of the versioned MeeGo API (yet?)	01:02
mdp	but required to be in the stack to gain device compliance	01:02
mdp	if I understand correctly	01:02
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arjan	mdp: it's there for legacy apps	01:04
mdp	arjan, ok, I kinda figured it stuck from moblin	01:04
arjan	there's also a ton of LSB software that needs it	01:05
arjan	and meego compliance is kind of trying to be not too far away from LSB	01:05
arjan	at least not in the subtractive sense	01:05
arjan	quite a few things ONLY require gtk (and glibc)	01:05
arjan	it's not the most elegant part of the architecture	01:05
arjan	I'll give you that	01:05
arjan	but it's pretty hard to not have gtk	01:06
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mdp	ok, I see the LSB issue	01:06
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mdp	arjan, by "quite a few things" requiring gtk, you mean specific apps included in the current release?	01:08
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arjan	not so much apps we have	01:13
arjan	as things like flash player, the various plugins to browsers, the various LSB reference apps	01:13
arjan	is just reality	01:13
arjan	gtk does not make sense really on a touch only device.	01:14
arjan	but .... looooooooooooong discussion	01:14
TSCHAKeee	clutter	01:14
TSCHAKeee	cough	01:14
mdp	heh, ok	01:14
arjan	TSCHAKeee: even longer discussion.	01:14
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alistair	but why should connected-tv and ivi require gtk as they are effectively clean slate devices in MeeGo with no baggage from previous work	01:14
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arjan	alistair: ivi is sadly currently chockful of gtk using stuff	01:15
arjan	ivi.. yeah that's QT only	01:15
arjan	eh TV on the second one	01:15
arjan	but.. again if you want a flash plugin or similar stuff ;(	01:15
alistair	well there's no TV yet...	01:15
arjan	LSB has it, which means tons of 3rd party vendors use it	01:15
arjan	explicitly removing it and going away from LSB is not very nice	01:15
mdp	alistair, so that's where I was going to go as well...wondering if it's possible to make a new UX without those things..would be nice to be compliant	01:15
arjan	and it's not like GTK is huge	01:15
arjan	but as I said, it's not the most sane part of the architecture in that way	01:17
alistair	its totally possible to create a UX without gtk but it comes down to whether gtk is in the core and as arjan says how much does it cost to carry around the extra few MB	01:17
Macer	blah	01:18
mdp	alistair, sure technically possible. so yeah, just carry it around if you want to be compliant..np	01:18
mdp	it's one thing I see people ask about when they see gtk/clutter/qt in the arch...confuses many brains	01:19
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denro	Hey guys ive been looking at this project for a while to install on my sony vaio p with gma500 should i even try or is it still a dead end this dammed peace of plastic?	01:49
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denro	sad thing i bought it in feb and only used it for one month, that was how long i standed vista	01:50
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denro	since then no real progress in the gma500 problem?	01:50
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CosmoHill	i think there might be a wiki page about the GMA5000	01:51
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denro	CosmoHill: yeah someone got it working with some relase that has been removed:/	01:58
CosmoHill	as far as I know it's not been released because of something to do with the driver lisence	01:59
denro	the most sad thing is that all other is soo nice, i mean suspend, screen,	02:00
denro	and fast bootup, compared to the otehr distros	02:00
denro	i bought it to have a clean nice portable device, i gues im just sad and desperate cos ive never actually got to use ut :D	02:02
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CosmoHill	either find a purpose for it	02:02
CosmoHill	or restore it to factory settings and sell it quickly	02:03
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denro	is there anyone who know a linux distro that might work?	02:08
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balor	does bzr exist in the Meego repos?	02:48
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sofar	balor: no	06:25
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sofar	don't think it does	06:25
balor	sofar: thanks.	06:26
sofar	there's git, I not entirely sure but svn+cvs are there too	06:26
sofar	just checked no there's no bzr	06:26
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ali1234	why doesn't meego's rpm-python srpm contain a rpm.spec file? it's refered to in the rpm-python.spec and build fails because it doesn't exist	07:30
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ali1234	copying it over from the rpm srpm makes it work	07:31
ali1234	when i look at the rpm-python packages from other distros they contain a copy of the rpm.spec	07:31
ali1234	what is different about meego? or is this just a bug?	07:31
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sofar	ali1234: either it's a bug, or you're doing something that's not supported, like building it on a non-meego system?	08:31
sofar	either way it might need cleaning up, so, bugreport?	08:31
ali1234	yes. which is it?	08:31
ali1234	very well i will bug report it	08:32
sofar	could be both :)	08:32
ali1234	where am i supposed to report bugs like this? which product?	08:36
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sofar	lemme check	08:38
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ali1234	i'm going for middleware cos it has a "package management" component	08:38
sofar	os base/other will work, but that sounds ok as well	08:39
sofar	middleware/others	08:39
ali1234	os base looks like kernel stuff/hardware specific	08:39
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sofar	there's more in os base, like fastboot stuff is there	08:39
sofar	dbus	08:39
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sofar	my bugs ;)	08:40
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bkrawal	how can i setup build environment for MeeGO?	08:40
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bkrawal	there are lot of git repos around, is there any common script which can download all required components?	08:42
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sofar	bkrawal: no	08:46
sofar	nothing like that	08:46
sofar	obs	08:46
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bkrawal	sofar: any alternative which can be used...	08:54
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sofar	bkrawal: none, ask your distro to integrate components for you if you're not using meego	09:00
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Chicktopus	Hi	09:00
ali1234	i just imported every meego source package into my OBS	09:00
ali1234	that should give it something to think on...	09:01
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sofar	hi	09:05
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bkrawal	ali1234: thanks for pointer, i will try with OBS	09:07
ali1234	it wasn't a pointer	09:07
ali1234	i'm in the same boat as you	09:07
ali1234	i have no idea what i'm doing so i'm trying to solve the problem by just trying everything until something works	09:08
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bkrawal	ali1234: yes something is better then nothing :)	09:18
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Jaffa	Morning, all	09:20
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Chicktopus	i have problem with qemu at 64bit os	09:27
Chicktopus	What's going on?	09:27
thiago	we don't know, you have to tell us	09:28
sofar	Chicktopus: what's the problem?	09:28
sofar	Q: "hi, I have a problem". A: "good for you".	09:28
Chicktopus	I can't emu arm platform	09:29
sofar	have you tried asking the qemu ppl?	09:29
Chicktopus	no	09:29
sofar	so far, you haven't mentioned anything except qemu being a problem. I'm wondering if you shouldn't be asking qemu folks	09:30
Chicktopus	When i try run app from meego sdk	09:30
sofar	oh hey, you're trying meego, more information	09:30
Chicktopus	ok, i got it, qemu working good at 32bit platform, at 64bit can be many problems with emu arm platform	09:31
Chicktopus	Sovled	09:31
Chicktopus	Sorry for making problem	09:32
sofar	np just try to be verbose when you have an issue	09:32
sofar	with no information, we can't help	09:32
Chicktopus	ok, sorry, my english is weak :;	09:33
sofar	just... don't be shy	09:33
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arfoll	anyone know what package 'cmp' is part of?	13:40
timeless	do you mean http://mxr.moego.org/repo.meego.com/source/mpfr-2.4.1/cmp.c ?	13:42
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arfoll	timeless, I mean the cmp 'compare two files byte by byte' tool	13:43
timeless	http://mxr.moego.org/repo.meego.com/source/diffutils-2.8.1/man/cmp.1?force=1	13:43
timeless	so it looks like diffutils	13:43
timeless	mxr.moego.org is your friend	13:43
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arfoll	that's awesome	13:44
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* timeless needs to fix it to include .spec files		13:44
timeless	(minor glitch in the way packages work in rpm land)	13:44
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arfoll	is there something equivalent to using apt-file using yum/rpm ?	13:47
timeless	yes	13:47
timeless	but it requires you to have a working system	13:47
Phazorx	cmp? what happened to diff?	13:47
timeless	i don't have one of those handy ...	13:47
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timeless	otoh, mxr is in the cloud :)	13:47
arfoll	timeless, but I do ;-) and it's helpfull for different things than mxr	13:48
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arfoll	well sometimes it works anywyas	13:48
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timeless	http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=apt-file%20rpm	13:48
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arfoll	cool it's built in, even better than apt-file	13:50
arfoll	now if only wifi worked properly...	13:50
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vlj	http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/19/nokias-qwerty-slidin-n9-shows-up-in-the-wilds-of-china/	14:02
vlj	does it looks like a meego interface ?	14:02
Stskeepz	i vote that it's a KIRF running meego	14:02
vlj	=(	14:02
vlj	well it has a nice look, like N8	14:03
vlj	when is the nokia world event ?	14:04
Chicktopus	n9 is good	14:04
Chicktopus	But i think n9 can be with meego too	14:04
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Chicktopus	1ghz cpu is good to MeeGo	14:05
vlj	I would like more news about n9	14:05
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vlj	this is quite ironic that Nokia waits before announcing its product whereas there are bunch of leaks about these products at the same time	14:09
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vlj	it would be better to announce it quite early, then reveals the specs latter	14:10
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vlj	by the way is meego for hanset considered as a "linux" os ?	14:13
Stskeepz	sure, it is real linux	14:13
Stskeepz	i mean	14:13
Stskeepz	you can run motif if you really wanted	14:13
Stskeepz	:P	14:13
vlj	android is not always considered as linux by reviewer	14:13
Stskeepz	or emacs	14:13
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Chicktopus	android sux	14:13
vlj	but it has linux kernel, a framebuffer,	14:13
vlj	things like that	14:14
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vlj	does meego ships with a pdf reader ?	14:15
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vlj	because adobe sells a lite version of adobe reader	14:16
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frals	vlj: where is adobe selling a lite version of pdf reader for meego? :)	14:29
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vlj	I mean, it sells it on ovi store	14:29
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vlj	and meego for handset is very likely to give access to ovi store	14:29
ismael	vlj it ships evince, AFAIK	14:30
vlj	ok	14:30
vlj	even on handset version ?	14:31
Chicktopus	anyone of you sells applications in ovi?	14:31
vlj	well, mobile app	14:32
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Chicktopus	Because I do not know where better to sell your applications	14:33
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vlj	well I do not sell apps, I'm just a user	14:34
Chicktopus	*my applications	14:34
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Phazorx	how can i update connman to more recent revision on vanilla meego (lacking compile abilities i mean)	15:15
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mdavison	Stskeeps: ping	15:22
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Stskeeps	pong	15:22
mdavison	you told me yesterday about OBS and how i can use it for creating a custom distribution for meego	15:23
mdavison	is there a way where i can set up that system locally on my ubuntu machine?	15:23
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Stskeeps	you'll want to set it up on hardware running opensuse	15:24
Stskeeps	less pain	15:24
mdavison	hmm	15:24
mdavison	thx	15:24
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* mbatle trying to use qt creator debugger from MeeGo SDK and I'm unable to show variables, watches. I cannot add anything to the watch window. Any idea ?		16:00
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andre	mbatle: the contents of the debugger log is usually helpful. right pane of Windows->Views->Debugger	16:03
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mbatle	andre, yep, that can help, I didn't know that, thanks :)	16:09
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Bostik	hmh, I'm having some trouble with OBS with a maemo target building me debian packages; for some reason the package state remains "excluded" even after following the instructions from http://ldn.linuxfoundation.org/article/opensuse-build-system-building-deb-packages	16:26
Bostik	because I am obviously doing something wrong, I could use some help - what are the questions I should be asking myself?	16:26
mbatle	it complains in the /usr/share/qtcreator/gdbmacros/dumper.py	16:27
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mbatle	andre, I get python error "TypeError: 'str' object is not callable\n", any hint ?	16:42
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andre	mbatle: I don't guess before seeing the log	16:49
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mbatle	andre, http://pastebin.com/FTyerRuQ :)	16:51
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andre	so this is (a) missing Qt debug information and (b) a missing try-catch in dumper.py	16:53
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mbatle	actually I have compiled with gcc debug information (-g) and it seems to work from plain gdb	17:00
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andre	mbatle: even stepping into Qt code?	17:01
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mbatle	ahh ok, not that I guess	17:01
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mbatle	I don't find a qt debug package in meego btw	17:02
andre	mbatle: a quick workaround for you would be to add a 'return ""' directly under def qtNamespace():	17:02
mbatle	ok, thanks andre	17:03
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mbatle	mm, I can step into the code, at least the one that is in header files, for the other I don't have the cpps I guess	17:05
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mbatle	andre, workaround does not really work, it breaks again a few lines later http://pastebin.com/9iW39W7T	17:14
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andre	mbatle: replace the 'dir' with '__builtin__.dir' there	17:18
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lcuk	DawnFoster, ping, reggie posted something on twitter which highlights the great work airside have done with the meego characters. however their website still shows the moblin stuff. perhaps a nudge would be good http://www.airside.co.uk/work/	17:19
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lcuk	he suggests it may be a carryover, I think its oversight ;)	17:21
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mbatle	andre, great, I got some watches now, thanks for your help	17:25
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sivang	anybody has experience with using MTF on N900?	17:42
sivang	(implicating a successful install of MeeGo on the N900 :-))	17:43
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CosmoHill	lcuk: something you might be interested in: http://forums.kustompcs.co.uk/showpost.php?p=476653&postcount=26	18:00
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arfoll	CosmoHill, nice what uni are you at?	18:11
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CosmoHill	www.anglia.ac.uk	18:11
CosmoHill	ARU for short	18:12
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arfoll	cool, i'm at Kent uni canterbury	18:12
CosmoHill	cool[	18:12
CosmoHill	dartford crossing has gone up in price hasn't itr?	18:13
arfoll	no idea, i'm in spain :-)	18:13
* CosmoHill blinks		18:13
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CosmoHill	note to self: don't blink	18:13
wazd	n9 looks a bit weird, but nice for me :)	18:16
wazd	very strange "n9" label position.	18:16
CosmoHill	I think I saw a video of one. It turned off mid way through and wouldn't turn back on	18:16
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arfoll	aada all the way ;-)	18:16
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CosmoHill	hello evil one er i mean arjan >.>	18:18
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lcuk	CosmoHill, nice! and last night you showed another side that no exams can do :)	18:21
* lcuk was very impressed by your questions and responses in the meeting		18:22
CosmoHill	:D	18:22
CosmoHill	thanks :)	18:22
CosmoHill	I've only had 3 exams so far :D	18:23
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sivang	CosmoHill: what meeting did I miss this time? :)	18:52
sivang	CosmoHill: was it in meego-dev?	18:53
arfoll	XBMC running on aava meego phone - http://twitpic.com/2g71fm	18:54
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mdp	sivang, L10N meeting	18:54
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CosmoHill	sivang: last nights TSG meeting	18:57
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CosmoHill	sivang: http://trac.tspre.org/meetbot/meego-meeting/2010/meego-meeting.2010-08-18-18.58.log.txt	18:58
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sivang	CosmoHill: thanks	19:01
CosmoHill	hmm	19:02
CosmoHill	aparantly a polish mail server is trying to connect to my FTP server using the name "Administrator"	19:02
Stskeeps	sorry	19:02
Stskeeps	:	19:02
Stskeeps	P	19:02
CosmoHill	kickban you say?	19:02
MohammadAG51	Stskeeps, is your enter key symlinked to your spacebar?	19:02
Stskeeps	MohammadAG51: no, just accident	19:03
MohammadAG51	:	19:03
MohammadAG51	P	19:03
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tripzero	does meego have vncserver?	20:12
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arjan	not yet iirc	20:13
arjan	vncserver is rather incestious with the X server in how it builds	20:13
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arjan	and I tried it a while ago to get it going	20:13
arjan	but I got stuck completely	20:13
lcuk	?	20:13
tripzero	:S	20:13
lcuk	how can you have problems with the x11 server?	20:14
lcuk	if there is one, it should talk the lingo shouldn't it?	20:14
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lcuk	or is this a compositing issue?	20:14
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arjan	no	20:14
arjan	it's with how it builds	20:14
arjan	vncserver kinda buidls half inside half outside the X server	20:14
arjan	but weirdly	20:14
arjan	and tends to be rather peculiar to which versions that works with	20:15
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arjan	you effectively end up duplicating the Xorg tarbal in vncserver	20:15
arjan	but even then it's massive	20:15
tripzero	hmm	20:15
lcuk	I would say just grab one from debian or some other distro who have already overcome this, but well - can the redhat or fedora version be built?	20:15
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tripzero	does that go for every vncserver variant? like tightvnc or whatever?	20:15
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lcuk	yeah vnc has spread far and wide	20:15
arjan	fedora packages their X different than we do	20:16
arjan	again I tried for a day a while ago and gave up	20:16
timeless_mbp	arjan: err	20:16
arjan	don't let me stop you.	20:16
timeless_mbp	we're already duplicating the entire kernel source in the kernel sources tarball	20:16
arjan	but... don't assume it's going to be trivial	20:16
arjan	timeless_mbp: ???	20:16
timeless_mbp	who cares if we duplicate the xorg source in the vnc tarball?	20:16
arjan	timeless_mbp: I don't mind the duplication.. I mind it not working if they mismatch even a little, and I mind it not working with the version of X we have ;)	20:16
arjan	the combination of those two was deadly.	20:16
lcuk	what version of x do you have?	20:17
arjan	right now 1.1 is at 1.9-rc	20:17
timeless_mbp	http://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=3702	20:17
arjan	timeless_mbp: oh kernel-headers not sources	20:17
timeless_mbp	arjan: it includes the entire kernel sources	20:17
arjan	kernel-headers is mostly a OBS-workaround	20:17
arjan	yes I know, I own that package.	20:17
arjan	can't say I like doing it that way, but it was the least of the ugly options	20:18
timeless_mbp	but, i'd have thought that x11 was a safe enough protocol that it would be hard to mismatch it	20:18
timeless_mbp	otoh, i'm a naive guy who assumes the best	20:18
arjan	timeless_mbp: I thought so to. Then I tried it.	20:18
timeless_mbp	about things i know which are crap	20:18
lcuk	arjan, are you talking about the version of X in the handset or the netbook or the IVI instance?	20:18
timeless_mbp	arjan: heh	20:18
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arjan	lcuk: all the same version.	20:18
tripzero	arjan, how safe (or sane) is it to grab the opensuse package and import it? is that a little closer packaging to what meego is doing?	20:19
lcuk	and if the differences are so great, if something as generic as vnc cannot be easily built, what chance of other things	20:19
lcuk	arjan, really?	20:19
timeless_mbp	lcuk: ain't unix grand?	20:19
timeless_mbp	this is why everyone should switch from x11 to RDP	20:19
timeless_mbp	:)	20:19
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timeless_mbp	it's a stable, reliable protocol	20:19
timeless_mbp	with support for sound, networking, file system mapping, usb :)	20:20
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lcuk	its not the protocol I am interested in, its interaction with x11	20:20
lcuk	timeless_mbp, the question could become - is there an rdp client for meego?	20:21
lcuk	err server	20:21
timeless_mbp	dunno	20:21
tripzero	ssh -{X,Y} doesn't seem to work with mtf	20:21
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timeless_mbp	xrdp relies on Xvnc and X11rdp	20:22
timeless_mbp	since we've established that xvnc is unhapy..	20:23
timeless_mbp	s/py/ppy/	20:23
infobot	timeless_mbp meant: since we've established that xvnc is unhappy..	20:23
* timeless_mbp wonders about ltsp		20:23
lcuk	heh	20:23
timeless_mbp	neither xrdp nor ltsp seem to be in repo.meego.com according to mxr.moego.org/repo.meego.com	20:24
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* timeless_mbp hunts dinner		20:24
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CosmoHill	When do we get to find out about Smeego?	20:26
Phazorx	why on every restart chromium complains about being unable to open profile?	20:27
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tripzero	SmeegoL	20:27
tripzero	SmeegoL 1.0 codenamed "stinker"	20:28
CosmoHill	tripzero: ah, someone else who thinks it should have an L :)	20:28
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CosmoHill	would "SmeegoL" need a trademark exception?	20:29
tripzero	hmm	20:29
tripzero	maybe	20:29
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lbt	OK ... we have build.meego.com it's the main meego build system. What url should the community OBS be at? cbuild.m.c ? build.community.m.c? build.public.m.c? anything else? (there will also be api.* download.*)	20:36
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tripzero	i vote build.public.meego.com	20:56
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GAN900	Too long	21:07
GAN900	Needs to be short	21:07
CosmoHill	bp.meego.com	21:07
GAN900	Ha	21:07
CosmoHill	people might blame meego for the oil leak tho	21:08
GAN900	As a Floridian, your url offends me.	21:08
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CosmoHill	at least now if you want crispy duck you just throw a match at it	21:08
ShadowJK	lol	21:09
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Phazorx	bp is a curse now in americas	21:13
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CosmoHill	as long as you don't finds out what the B stands for :)	21:16
CosmoHill	cyas	21:19
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lbt	GAN900: "be used from an n900 keyboard" isn't a criteria...	21:56
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vgrade	lbt, build2.meego.com and build3.meego.com for the old build.obs.maemo.org	21:57
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GAN900	lbt, well, it shouldn't be ugly and it should fit with the rest of the URLs.	22:04
lbt	cbuild is ugly... IMHO	22:05
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lbt	build.public.meego.com makes it sound like build.meego.com isn't public (which it isn't)	22:05
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N9-da-king	so what do ya peeps think of n9 ?	22:14
N9-da-king	its da bomb	22:14
N9-da-king	i love it .... you???	22:15
GAN900	Looks like a MBP	22:15
N9-da-king	yea....great	22:15
MohammadAG	I hate the looks of it	22:15
MohammadAG	esp. the keyboard	22:15
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N9-da-bomb	why ??? it walks all over the plastick brick no???	22:16
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N9-da-bomb	capacitive screen...none this resistive bullshit	22:17
GAN900	Capacitive sucks.	22:17
MohammadAG	+1 on that	22:17
MohammadAG	I'm against it	22:17
ora-666	+1 on what?)	22:18
N9-da-bomb	you're joking right ??? its 2010 peeps	22:18
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N9-da-bomb	stylus is the shits boys	22:18
MohammadAG	new doesn't always mean better	22:18
MohammadAG	ora-666, hating capacitive	22:18
ora-666	i do not use stylus on my 5800, and n900 does not need a stylus too.	22:18
MohammadAG	it's oversensitive for	22:19
frals	you can usually spot the trolls by the fact the made up the nickname about 1second before starting a new clean irc session	22:19
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N9-da-bomb	trolls?	22:19
N9-da-bomb	stop being so anal mate	22:19
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GAN900	ora-666, ++	22:19
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ora-666	but a capacitive has one pro - multitouch.	22:20
N9-da-bomb	its got 100 pros over resistive	22:20
MohammadAG	ora-666, resistive can do multitouch	22:21
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ora-666	as i understand, there are no access to garage now?	22:21
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N9-da-bomb	so you peeps think are smarter than nokia right?	22:21
MohammadAG	why am I wasting time in a retarded discussion	22:22
N9-da-bomb	MohammadAG: i dunno	22:22
ora-666	i registered as member on meego.com, but i don't see anything related to src upload, or build system, or i don't know what the right way to push srpms)	22:22
N9-da-bomb	i installed meego latest build on my brick....mega fail....give me n9 with snapdragon baby !!!	22:23
* lcuk pokes N9-da-bomb's eye out with a stylus. OI sometimes capacitive is good, but othertimes having a pointy stick for precision is also important.		22:25
lcuk	have you seen the nokia X3-2 with touch and type?	22:25
lcuk	whilst you are on about new fangled stuffs	22:25
lcuk	thats resistive and the web are swooning over it	22:26
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N9-da-bomb	your opinion only mate	22:26
MohammadAG	same goes for you	22:26
N9-da-bomb	well yes....but i think i have nokia on my side over you peeps	22:27
ora-666	in other side, sometimes i can't click on url even with stylus)))	22:27
N9-da-bomb	unless you think nokia is stupid	22:27
Phazorx	what does abrtd do?	22:27
lcuk	N9-da-bomb, huh? nobody thinks nokia are stupid	22:28
lcuk	and the users around aren't either	22:28
Phazorx	i got a mesage on tty1 saying it failed but i dont see same message in /var/log/messages	22:28
* lcuk was playing with capacitives the other day and on a responsive UI they are great		22:29
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N9-da-bomb	yes	22:29
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lcuk	but I can't write on one	22:29
lcuk	i have a few larger capacitives here too	22:29
MohammadAG	I just think it's oversensitive	22:30
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MohammadAG	I used an iPhone for a week	22:30
MohammadAG	kept calling people by mistake	22:30
lcuk	poor you	22:30
MohammadAG	poor bill	22:30
N9-da-bomb	only you	22:30
lcuk	so have you got an n900?	22:30
lcuk	N9-da-bomb, ^	22:30
N9-da-bomb	i have the brick	22:31
thiago_home	the E63?	22:31
ljp	e90	22:31
N9-da-bomb	the n900	22:31
thiago_home	right, the E90	22:31
thiago_home	that's the brick	22:31
N9-da-bomb	its my pet name for n900	22:31
thiago_home	it comes even in brick colour	22:31
thiago_home	you've never seen an E90 then	22:31
N9-da-bomb	anyhow....n9 is coming... it will blow n900 out of water	22:32
N9-da-bomb	i had the e90	22:32
MohammadAG	not sure about that	22:32
* ljp waits to see a bbq built of e90's		22:32
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thiago_home	http://static.phonesreview.co.uk/wp-content/phoneimages/2008/03/nokia-e90-not-the-best-bling-phone-on-the-market.jpg	22:32
MohammadAG	although I might get an N9, my N900 won't be replaced	22:32
N9-da-bomb	MohammadAG: why?	22:33
MohammadAG	or I'll just get another N900	22:33
MohammadAG	didn't like the N9 much	22:33
MohammadAG	especially the keyboard	22:33
N9-da-bomb	why get obsolete stuff though ?	22:33
MohammadAG	how is it obsolete	22:33
N9-da-bomb	how can you not like an all metal fone over plasticky brick?	22:33
MohammadAG	metal eh?	22:34
MohammadAG	my dad has an E66, I know how metal is	22:34
N9-da-bomb	aluminum no?	22:34
* ljp thinks people do not understand the word obsolete		22:34
N9-da-bomb	e66 is old news	22:34
MohammadAG	why do I care about material?	22:34
MohammadAG	my N900 is mint	22:34
thiago_home	ljp: the word obsolete is obsolete	22:34
MohammadAG	after 8 months	22:34
N9-da-bomb	because it makes fone more robust	22:34
leinir	In the words of Father Jack: I LUV MY BRICK!	22:34
MohammadAG	lame logic	22:35
ljp	finally working ssh on n900 meego	22:35
N9-da-bomb	plastick looks like childs toy	22:35
MohammadAG	I like gtk over Qt	22:35
MohammadAG	GTK*	22:35
ora-666	MohammadAG: n900 has a nice feature: automatic answering to incoming calls, while you trying to get out it from pocket.	22:35
MohammadAG	ora-666, never had that :)	22:35
ora-666	nice resistive feature)	22:35
N9-da-bomb	nokia chose qt....time to get over gtk	22:35
N9-da-bomb	spilled milk mate	22:36
frals	ora-666: put it in your pocket with the proximity sensor at the bottom, problem solved :p	22:36
lcuk	ora-666, technically just replacing screen technology wont do anything to solve that	22:36
frals	or just not the display facing out ;p	22:36
N9-da-bomb	i love the n9	22:36
ali1234	N9-da-bomb: N9 wouldn't look out of place inside a dmc-12 :)	22:36
lcuk	N9-da-bomb, have you got one?	22:36
N9-da-bomb	its thin....its metal....etc	22:36
lcuk	why don't you marry a coathanger?	22:36
lcuk	they are thin and metal	22:37
MohammadAG	you do know it could be a KIRF	22:37
N9-da-bomb	none of this plastick cover on camera bullshit	22:37
N9-da-bomb	or a goofy kickstand that broke on me after 2 weeks	22:37
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MohammadAG	sometimes I'm thankful I can't op myself	22:38
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lcuk	lol	22:38
ora-666	gg	22:38
lcuk	N9-da-bomb, i certainly agree, the n9 does look splendid	22:38
N9-da-bomb	go nokia!!	22:38
N9-da-bomb	you mates are crying the blues over spilled milk...get a grip and join us in 2010	22:38
lcuk	and I think everyone appreciates your enthusiasm, but you have to chop your insults down and remove the swearing	22:39
lcuk	we are! but if you come in attacking then we will respond in kind	22:39
* thiago_home points out that until a device is officially announced, there is no N9		22:39
N9-da-bomb	alls im sayin is N9 rocks	22:39
thiago_home	there was another device reported to be the N9 a month ago	22:39
lcuk	so go and tell 100 people about it	22:39
N9-da-bomb	ha?	22:39
ali1234	how can you even be sure that thing isn't just some chinese knock-off?	22:39
ljp	N9-da-bomb: and you know .. how?	22:39
thiago_home	you know, meego source code is available	22:40
N9-da-bomb	i think nokia finally got this right	22:40
thiago_home	there is a handset edition	22:40
leinir	N9-da-bomb: i take it you read the notes that this is a research mockup, right? Not a finished device about to go on market. :)	22:40
thiago_home	some chinese company could be just making it	22:40
ali1234	carved out of styrofoam, spray painted silver, and with meego screenshot photoshopped in	22:40
leinir	Now, i'll say: i saw one of the devices which were that for the N900, and they were... different :)	22:40
ljp	not styro.. wood	22:40
thiago_home	ali1234: photoshopped? I was going for actually running, but sure, your idea is better :-)	22:40
N9-da-bomb	no...its the real deal....i know some folks at nokia	22:41
ljp	heh	22:41
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lcuk	N9-da-bomb, nokia is such a large company, I think everyone knows some folks who work there	22:42
ljp	especially if your finnish	22:42
lcuk	even if you are just starting	22:42
N9-da-bomb	this guy i know checked in their internal system and said its legit	22:43
ljp	thats funny	22:43
lcuk	if you came in swearing and ripping shit out of other nokia products to him I bet he would say anything to get rid of you ;)	22:43
N9-da-bomb	no	22:44
thiago_home	N9-da-bomb: the problem is that we have only your word for it	22:44
thiago_home	we don't know your source and we don't know you	22:44
N9-da-bomb	your choice to believe me	22:44
thiago_home	and since Nokia won't comment on this...	22:44
* ljp gets back to adding ofono to qt bearer		22:44
N9-da-bomb	if this thing turns out for real will you doubting Thomases apologize to me?	22:44
MohammadAG	no	22:45
thiago_home	I doubt we'll ever hear from you again	22:45
N9-da-bomb	got ya!	22:45
N9-da-bomb	oh....you will...trust mde	22:45
thiago_home	so even if this turns out to be real, there will be no one to apologise to	22:45
MohammadAG	we don't owe you an apology	22:45
thiago_home	start by saying your name and where you're from	22:46
N9-da-bomb	but yous been bashin me	22:46
ali1234	N9-da-bomb: if you have sources inside nokia why do you come here and annoy people instead of selling your story to someone who cares eg engadget?	22:46
* MohammadAG counts to ten		22:46
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MohammadAG	is this a family channel?	22:46
N9-da-bomb	ok...sorry....no more inside info for you	22:46
N9-da-bomb	chill dudes	22:47
thiago_home	N9-da-bomb: you do realise that a good portion of the people in this channel know more than you, right?	22:47
N9-da-bomb	its just a fone	22:47
N9-da-bomb	whats your poitnt?	22:47
MohammadAG	they don't need inside info they can get themselves	22:47
N9-da-bomb	ok	22:47
N9-da-bomb	sorry then	22:47
thiago_home	you're not giving us any new info	22:47
N9-da-bomb	i cant disclose	22:48
lcuk	actually he is, but my brain is full so hes pushing out the good stuff	22:48
N9-da-bomb	why all this negativity to me?	22:48
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N9-da-bomb	cant you guys just let loose sometimes?	22:49
thiago_home	just one more thing for you to think about: Nokia protos often have wrong device numbers	22:49
thiago_home	the N900s, last year, showed "N00"	22:49
N9-da-bomb	not this one	22:49
lcuk	because you came in bitching about the n900 which incase you hadn't noticed is a reference device for the meego handset platform and something which people work with a lot	22:49
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* ljp gets the baby instead		22:50
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* thiago_home goes for a shower		22:50
N9-da-bomb	bitching?	22:50
Stskeeps	N9-da-bomb: sorry, didn't I ask you to keep the same nick?	22:50
N9-da-bomb	i changed my mind....pretty please ??	22:51
N9-da-bomb	did i offend anyone? no?	22:51
Stskeeps	your game is the usual one, so, please, behave	22:52
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N9-da-bomb	i just find this room too serious	22:53
N9-da-bomb	loosen up dudes	22:53
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Stskeeps	N9-da-bomb: either way, this isn't a nokia discussion channel, discussion deals with meego.com :P	22:55
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Stskeeps	i'm sure you'd feel right at home at talk.maemo.org though	22:55
MohammadAG	O_O	22:56
lcuk	N9-da-bomb, or talk happily with Stskeeps in #meego-dev ;) since thats the handset home :P	22:56
lcuk	err crap	22:56
lcuk	#meego-arm even :P	22:56
* Stskeeps hits lcuk		22:56
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* lcuk ducks and blows a rasberry		22:56
* MohammadAG hits Stskeeps		22:56
lcuk	we are trying to improve tmo tyvm	22:56
CosmoHill	wtf	22:57
* CosmoHill dives for cover		22:57
MohammadAG	food fight!!!	22:57
Stskeeps	N9-da-bomb: go try to install the mmc image from http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/meego-codedrop.php and test	22:58
Stskeeps	then you'll understand what meego is about :)	22:58
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lcuk	++	22:58
N9-da-bomb	i did	22:58
Stskeeps	which release?	22:58
N9-da-bomb	latest	22:59
Stskeeps	v4 or v6?	22:59
N9-da-bomb	its slow as hell on my bri... err... my n900	22:59
ora-666	Xephyr starts with black screen, it is normal?)	22:59
N9-da-bomb	i dunno...i grabbed what was there	22:59
Stskeeps	when did you grab it?	23:00
ScottishDuck	you're trolling is poor	23:00
N9-da-bomb	today	23:00
MohammadAG	somehow, I think you don't even have an N900	23:01
MohammadAG	paste the line under arm-n900-closed.ks	23:01
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N9-da-bomb	i have a question...will xchat in its current form or any other current app run on n9 ?	23:01
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ora-666	irssi will.	23:01
ScottishDuck	I'm sorry	23:01
ora-666	xchat will die	23:01
ScottishDuck	does this appear to be #n9?	23:02
ScottishDuck	cause it's not	23:02
N9-da-bomb	MohammadAG: i have N900	23:02
Stskeeps	N9-da-bomb: please take N9 discussions somewhere else, not a nokia channel :)	23:02
N9-da-bomb	why??? n9 is meego no?	23:03
Stskeeps	it's not meego from meego.com, at least	23:03
N9-da-bomb	huh?	23:04
Jaffa	N9-da-bomb: So is your question about whether "XChat in its current form or any other current app" run on MeeGo?	23:04
N9-da-bomb	meego is meego no?	23:04
Stskeeps	it's harmattan, which is a different beast - how that exactly is related to branding it meego is a funny excersise	23:04
N9-da-bomb	too much framgantation	23:04
Stskeeps	N9-da-bomb: trust me, we're as confused as you about this issue..	23:04
Jaffa	Stskeeps: More so, probably	23:04
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N9-da-bomb	those screenshots today....thats meego right?	23:05
Stskeeps	what url?	23:05
ScottishDuck	I thought you had used meego	23:05
N9-da-bomb	the leaked photos	23:05
ScottishDuck	you should know	23:05
N9-da-bomb	engadganet	23:05
Jaffa	N9-da-bomb: Anyone who knows wouldn't say	23:05
N9-da-bomb	or whatever the fuck its called....engadget	23:06
lcuk	Jaffa, that xchat question will come up no doubt	23:06
lcuk	at least until someone makes a decent irc client for meego?	23:06
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Jaffa	N9-da-bomb: Anyway, if it's a Nokia prototype (looks like it, but doesn't say "N00") then it's not running Symbian AFAWCT.	23:06
Jaffa	N9-da-bomb: So that leaves MeeGo-Harmattan	23:07
N9-da-bomb	rite	23:07
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MohammadAG	hmm, so writing meego-handset-armv7l-n900-nokia-proprietary-1.0.80.15.20100817.1-mmcblk0p.raw.bz2 to the MMC provides a working MeeGo install?	23:08
MohammadAG	or do I need to do the kickstart crap	23:08
Stskeeps	MohammadAG: bunzi2 it first	23:08
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MohammadAG	Stskeeps, yes yes, I know, but I don't need to install more stuff on top of it right?	23:09
archebyte	MohammadAG: you need the kernel too.	23:09
Stskeeps	just load the kernel	23:09
Stskeeps	and to the block device, not the partion	23:09
Stskeeps	partition	23:09
MohammadAG	I was thinking bme and such, but I guess that's included	23:09
Stskeeps	it's in it	23:09
MohammadAG	k, understood	23:09
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mz	question: are there any command-line tools that will copy or move an icon from the launcher to the quicklaunchbar?	23:39
auke	in the netbook UI?	23:41
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mz	i'm working on a handset actually but I'll take what I can get :) on the handset application icons are assigned to launcher or quicklaunchbar according to the file $HOME/.config/duihome/launcherbuttons.data. I can add an application to the launcher on install by creating a .desktop file and calling update-desktop-datavase. Am looking for a way to add to quicklaunchbar instea dof launcher	23:44
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* sp3000 points and giggles at datavase		23:52
sp3000	it sounds so quaint :)	23:53
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mz	yeah, low-capacity too :)	23:53
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lcuk	"Mailman privacy alert"	23:57
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lcuk	An attempt was made to subscribe your address to the mailing list	23:57
lcuk	meego-touch-dev@meego.com. You are already subscribed to this mailing list.	23:57
lcuk	:D	23:57
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lcuk	it could have told me that on the website :P	23:57
* lcuk couldnt remember that he had subscribed		23:57
ali1234	it does	23:59

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