| qgil | auke: beyond my reach, then ;) | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| auke | ali1234: but, someone interested in meego running linux is one step ahead of someone running windows only no matter what. | 00:00 |
| lcuk | auke, ali1234 - do any of the desktop machines have an accelerometer? | 00:00 |
| lcuk | can you make calls on them :P | 00:00 |
| lcuk | huh auke ? | 00:01 |
| ali1234 | auke: ah so the problem is just that you think windows developers are noobs? | 00:01 |
| lcuk | with qt why does that matter | 00:01 |
| auke | ali1234: no, did I say that? | 00:01 |
| ali1234 | lcuk well exactly. you wont have that stuff whether you run linux or windows. so which one you use does not matter at all | 00:01 |
| ali1234 | "someone interested in meego running linux is one step ahead of someone running windows only no matter what." | 00:01 |
| auke | at least a netbook comes close to having the power envelope of a handset | 00:01 |
| auke | and the cpu performance | 00:02 |
| auke | and a smaller form factor | 00:02 |
| lcuk | no, windows extra processes take care of that | 00:02 |
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| auke | lol | 00:02 |
| auke | lcuk: touche' | 00:02 |
| lcuk | many win users have cpu availability less than equiv linux ones, so experience is closer to handheld :P | 00:02 |
| auke | alright let me switch all my boxes to windows 7 | 00:02 |
| auke | I'll be on par again | 00:02 |
| lcuk | but that is a different rgument | 00:03 |
| CosmoHill | http://meego.com/users/cosmo | 00:04 |
| CosmoHill | to da! | 00:04 |
| ali1234 | so you don't think there is any advantage to using linux over using windows for development... so why do you keep arguing in the damn thread? | 00:04 |
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| lcuk | qgil, I saw your post about the hacker dojo near you! have you been often and do they give out colored belts to the guys? | 00:04 |
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| vlj | hi | 00:06 |
| qgil | lcuk: I'm still landing in Mountain View and surroundings. Didn't find a good excuse yet to visit but... | 00:06 |
| vlj | vgrade: ping | 00:06 |
| vgrade_nb | hi vlj | 00:06 |
| qgil | lcuk: ... actually yesterday I found a first excuse, even if I'm not that familiar with the topic http://www.meetup.com/cloudcomputing/calendar/14264960/ | 00:07 |
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| vlj | I'm trying to apply linux-2.6.33-ivi-img-graphic-driver.patch to a linux 2.34 kernel | 00:07 |
| qgil | by the way, do you know MeeGo interested people in San Francisco Bay Area? | 00:07 |
| vlj | however I have a " /usr/src/packages/BUILD/emgd/emgd/gmm/gtt.c:133:39: error: 'file_rss' undeclared (first use in this function) " error | 00:08 |
| vlj | and actually there is file_rss neither in kernel source nor in emgd* files added by this patch, except gtt.c of course | 00:09 |
| vgrade_nb | vlj, ah, I think DRM changed after 2.33 so this EMGD version does not work as you have found | 00:09 |
| auke | ali1234: development includes *testing* | 00:09 |
| lcuk | qgil theres this great lady who comes in here who might be nearby - I think her nick is dawn something :P | 00:09 |
| vlj | so I must stick with 2.6.33 kernel or ...? | 00:09 |
| ali1234 | auke: we already established that linux and windows are equally unsuitable for that task | 00:10 |
| b-man` | DawnFoster | 00:10 |
| DawnFoster | who? | 00:10 |
| qgil | dawn is in Portland | 00:10 |
| vgrade_nb | vlj, yes | 00:10 |
| DawnFoster | and yes, I am in Portland | 00:10 |
| auke | ali1234: my point, I was trying to tell the person he needs a target platform to test | 00:10 |
| lcuk | qgil, and I bet those sort of meetups will help to find others over there, did you get your netbook working yet? I saw you and daniel still having issues | 00:10 |
| vgrade_nb | vlj, see http://wiki.meego.com/User:Vgrade#GMA500_.28no.29Future_on_Meego, | 00:10 |
| vlj | there is no trivial patch for that ? ;) | 00:10 |
| DawnFoster | I'll probably start some kind of meego meetup in pdx, but not quite yet | 00:10 |
| lcuk | ahh DawnFoster are you not that close to qgils location? | 00:10 |
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| * lcuk does not know how spread out people in the US are | 00:11 | |
| DawnFoster | it's a 2 hour flight | 00:11 |
| vlj | thx | 00:11 |
| ali1234 | auke: so why you couldn't just say that instead making some cryptic response about "playing around" and implying he's a noob for using windows, and then arguing like hell with everyone who responded? | 00:11 |
| lcuk | eep, flights! | 00:11 |
| lcuk | that far | 00:11 |
| DawnFoster | or a 2 day drive :) | 00:11 |
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| auke | ali1234: I tried, yet people twist my words? | 00:11 |
| vgrade_nb | vlj, not looked at it, as there are other hurdles, ie updated Xorg and the EMGD drivers being pulled | 00:11 |
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| b-man` | meh, me and my dd drove about 1200 miles in one day once | 00:12 |
| lcuk | DawnFoster, rocket cars. | 00:12 |
| b-man` | *dad | 00:12 |
| qgil | I guess it's a beautiful road trip - difficult to convince my manager to cover as "meeting with Intel" ;) | 00:12 |
| ali1234 | auke: i didn't read any of the replies, i only read *your* posts | 00:12 |
| lcuk | "testing gps" | 00:12 |
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| lcuk | *thoroughly | 00:13 |
| ali1234 | auke: so you cannot blame people for twisting your words, you wrote what you wrote | 00:13 |
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| leinir | Funny thing with words: Context changes their meaning. | 00:13 |
| vlj | vgrade_nb: the EMGD drivers are removed from the mirror ? | 00:14 |
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| vgrade_nb | ah, did not check that | 00:15 |
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| lcuk | do we have any meego apps that have been shown running on all instances? | 00:16 |
| tripzero | instances == vertical? | 00:16 |
| lcuk | no, real | 00:16 |
| * lcuk strongly dislikes virtual machines | 00:17 | |
| tripzero | like netbook, handset, etc? | 00:17 |
| tripzero | vertical not virtual | 00:17 |
| lcuk | yes | 00:17 |
| vgrade_nb | vlj, gone from mirror.kernel.org | 00:17 |
| tripzero | lcuk, i don't know of any. Most handset apps are written in meegotouch | 00:17 |
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| lcuk | but wont these devices support native qt for instance? | 00:18 |
| auke | ali1234: hey I just read the bible without any context. | 00:18 |
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| lcuk | if I wanted a simple database app or something | 00:18 |
| CosmoHill | hmm | 00:19 |
| CosmoHill | crap | 00:19 |
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| CosmoHill | Just worked out that my cluster could be replaced by one computer >.< | 00:19 |
| lcuk | hah | 00:19 |
| CosmoHill | would make it a lot easier to compile meego tho ^.^ | 00:20 |
| lcuk | we need rice racers in here | 00:20 |
| lcuk | "I managed to compile the mego stack in under 4 minutes" | 00:20 |
| tripzero | lcuk, ah, if it's pure qt, sure | 00:20 |
| tripzero | on a handset, it'll be theme'd to look like a meegotouch app wihtout any code changes... | 00:21 |
| vlj | ok | 00:21 |
| tripzero | although, changes may be required to make it look "right" | 00:21 |
| auke | lcuk: lol, I guess we'd need to ditch OBS ;) | 00:21 |
| lcuk | ok tripzero so someone (vgrade hinthint) could actually run some hello meego app now on all his compatible machines? | 00:22 |
| lcuk | auke, no | 00:22 |
| tripzero | lcuk, yeah, if it's pure qt | 00:22 |
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| lcuk | do we have a simple "hello meego" app with a cover screen and some stuff? :D | 00:22 |
| tripzero | have as in, in the repo>? | 00:23 |
| lcuk | yeah, it would be good to have something | 00:23 |
| tripzero | i'm sure someone could write one real quick | 00:23 |
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| tripzero | put it in the public obs when it works | 00:23 |
| lcuk | "ported machine #744637 meego now runs on toasters" | 00:23 |
| tripzero | hehe | 00:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: "OE says `hi, long time no see!' toaster melts down" | 00:25 |
| lcuk | :D | 00:25 |
| mneptok | QT = Quite Toasted | 00:25 |
| CosmoHill | Quee....never mind | 00:26 |
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| CosmoHill | damn clamav | 00:46 |
| CosmoHill | this is were testing my packages on a VM first comes in handy | 00:46 |
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| ali1234 | where should i post bug reports about the nokia qt sdk? | 01:06 |
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| CosmoHill | ali1234: thiago's desk | 01:06 |
| ali1234 | hah | 01:06 |
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| CosmoHill | on a side note, never leave a pack of post-it notes near me | 01:07 |
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| ali1234 | i installed it and it stole all file associations. i feel like i went back in time 15 years | 01:07 |
| CosmoHill | aww | 01:07 |
| CosmoHill | I need to install Qt on my mac | 01:07 |
| CosmoHill | again | 01:07 |
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| ali1234 | looks like i have to submit through the generic forum nokia system | 01:09 |
| CosmoHill | isn't that a nightmare? | 01:09 |
| ali1234 | yes | 01:09 |
| CosmoHill | i tread carefully on the internet | 01:10 |
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| ali1234 | you're doing it wrong | 01:12 |
| CosmoHill | ali1234: he has "kde" in his host name. quick, get him! | 01:12 |
| ali1234 | don't get me started on that one | 01:13 |
| CosmoHill | maybe tomorrow, I've ran out of popcorn | 01:13 |
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| ali1234 | Stskeeps: when you say i'm inheriting the prjconf from fedora 13, would that be this? https://build.opensuse.org/project/prjconf?project=Fedora:13 | 01:54 |
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| vgrade | ali1234, my prjconf copied from maemo edited to remove the atom and ssse3 flags, http://pastebin.com/UH13K6Yq | 02:03 |
| ali1234 | vgrade seen it, it's no use since i have no SSSE3 server | 02:03 |
| ali1234 | i have no choice but to compile a meego toolchain against fedora or opensuse | 02:05 |
| ScottishDuck | lol | 02:06 |
| ScottishDuck | pick your poison | 02:06 |
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| lcuk | vgrade, :) does lbt know of this file? | 02:10 |
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| CosmoHill | lcuk: "# | 02:13 |
| CosmoHill | # Removed by lbt - liblua not in mirror 14Jul2010" | 02:13 |
| ali1234 | cgrade so what repository does that prjconf build against exactly? | 02:14 |
| ali1234 | oops i mean vgrade :) | 02:14 |
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| CosmoHill | oo, I see x86_64 | 02:15 |
| lcuk | CosmoHill, I meant more of the specific edits | 02:15 |
| lcuk | not the fact that he has edited himself in the past | 02:15 |
| CosmoHill | ah I'm with you | 02:16 |
| * lcuk goes back to sed and apt bashing | 02:17 | |
| CosmoHill | I'm trying to update / improve my clamav rpm | 02:19 |
| vgrade | vgrade, my file meaning the file I'm using | 02:20 |
| CosmoHill | s/vgrade/ali1234/ | 02:20 |
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| vgrade | buills against MeeGo_1.0_Core | 02:22 |
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| CosmoHill | I've just notice, we're competing against Android yet the default browser is Chrome. what's up with that? | 02:28 |
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| ali1234 | CosmoHill: chrome on the arm build? | 02:29 |
| CosmoHill | I was thinking x86 | 02:29 |
| ali1234 | android isn't really meant for x86 and netbooks at all | 02:29 |
| CosmoHill | chrome isn't meant for non x86 stuff | 02:29 |
| ali1234 | exactly | 02:30 |
| ali1234 | so there is no overlap, no competition | 02:30 |
| CosmoHill | I found that out when I went to download it | 02:30 |
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| ali1234 | im sure you could get chromium from ubuntu-arm | 02:30 |
| ali1234 | and port it to n900 | 02:30 |
| ali1234 | maybe not, i never checked | 02:30 |
| CosmoHill | I meant for my powerpc mac | 02:30 |
| ali1234 | haha, you should build meego for power | 02:30 |
| CosmoHill | I will at some point | 02:31 |
| ali1234 | that really would be challenging | 02:31 |
| CosmoHill | just waiting for a new mac | 02:31 |
| CosmoHill | well I do need to sort out my dissertation question | 02:31 |
| ali1234 | i'm beginning to think the easiest way for me to make this work would be to compile against meego binary rpms and just implement the ssse3 emulating kernel patch | 02:31 |
| CosmoHill | porting a distro would be more challenging than building one from source code :/ | 02:31 |
| CosmoHill | it would be easier to recompile a kernel with an additional patch than to recompile everything else | 02:32 |
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| ali1234 | i would only use it for the initial bootstrapping | 02:33 |
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| ali1234 | once i compile meego for i686 once then wouldn't need the kernel patch any more | 02:34 |
| ali1234 | hmm | 02:35 |
| ali1234 | or... i could set up the pxe booted worker and run it on my netbook | 02:36 |
| ali1234 | that can run the meego bins | 02:36 |
| CosmoHill | ali1234: you may be interesting but I'm pretty sure most of init 3 is useable on nonSSSE3 computers | 02:36 |
| ali1234 | and it wouldn't be slowed by virtualization | 02:36 |
| ali1234 | i am pretty sure glibc needs ssse3 | 02:37 |
| ScottishDuck | ... | 02:37 |
| CosmoHill | Yum and Zypper do but RPM doesn't | 02:37 |
| CosmoHill | this is based on that I can't run either of them on a P4 but RPM works | 02:38 |
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| ali1234 | you wont get SIGILL unless you actually execute an illegal instruction | 02:38 |
| CosmoHill | hmm | 02:38 |
| ali1234 | is there anything else the core 2 has and the phenom 2 doesn't have, besides ssse3? | 02:39 |
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| CosmoHill | wikipedia should tell you | 02:40 |
| ScottishDuck | A good architecture | 02:42 |
| ScottishDuck | haw haw haw | 02:42 |
| ali1234 | hurrrr.... | 02:42 |
| ali1234 | vgrade: in your paste, what's up with lines 227, 245, 279? | 02:45 |
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| CosmoHill | ali1234: what country are you in? | 02:53 |
| ali1234 | england | 02:53 |
| CosmoHill | I was expecting you to say some place in central europe | 02:54 |
| ali1234 | why? | 02:54 |
| CosmoHill | duno, either way it's time for bed | 02:54 |
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| ali1234 | i have noticed recently that my grammar on irc is getting worse, i'm starting to sound like english is my second language | 02:55 |
| CosmoHill | I think lcuk asked if english was my second language | 02:55 |
| tripzero | irc is my first language | 02:56 |
| ali1234 | i think i'm just picking up bad habits | 02:56 |
| ali1234 | from people who's first language is not english :) | 02:56 |
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| ali1234 | hmm i think i'm getting somewhere | 02:57 |
| ali1234 | "rpm" only depends on "meego-rpm-config" | 02:58 |
| ali1234 | seems like if i could port those to fedora it might solve my patching woes | 02:58 |
| ScottishDuck | the joys of rpm | 02:58 |
| ali1234 | meego-rpm-config is building :) | 02:59 |
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| ali1234 | well it finished :) | 03:00 |
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| CosmoHill | ali1234: one thing I hate about packaging RPMs is that if you make a typo in the spec file you need to recompile the whole RPM again | 03:03 |
| ali1234 | i'm not sure that's true | 03:03 |
| ali1234 | but in order to do what i am doing, i should not need to edit any spec files | 03:04 |
| CosmoHill | true | 03:04 |
| ali1234 | oh look, installed (but unpackaged) files. again | 03:04 |
| ali1234 | maybe i should port rpm-check-files too | 03:04 |
| CosmoHill | I need to repackage clamav again | 03:05 |
| Macer | there isn't an official google talk app for iphone? :) | 03:05 |
| Macer | wtf? | 03:05 |
| CosmoHill | i think overall there is a lot of improvement for my SPEC files | 03:05 |
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| CosmoHill | anyway, night night and good luck | 03:06 |
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| ali1234 | rpmcheck built ok | 03:08 |
| ali1234 | maybe i should just tell OBS to build everything against fedora 13 and just see what it can figure out on it's own | 03:08 |
| ali1234 | instead of just trying for a simple toolchain | 03:08 |
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| vgrade | ali1234, good spot, 227,245,279 | 03:10 |
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| ali1234 | damn. i can't stop those unpackaged *.la from showing up | 03:17 |
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| ali1234 | and the stupid info/dir that doesn't even make sense | 03:18 |
| ali1234 | this must be something missing from project environment, but i don't know what | 03:18 |
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| ali1234 | so...... meego-rpm-config provides this /usr/lib/rpm/meego/macros | 04:06 |
| ali1234 | it's probably quite important that i use that when building meego rpms | 04:07 |
| ali1234 | can anyone tell me how i would do that? | 04:07 |
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| Macer | hm | 05:37 |
| Macer | does tmob block skype sms or something? | 05:37 |
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| ali1234 | Macer: probably, they block a lot of weird stuff | 05:50 |
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| ali1234 | well i finally got gcc to apply patches | 07:09 |
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| mdavison | Hi all | 07:44 |
| mdavison | I've got a question regarding building meego from source | 07:45 |
| Stskeeps | first off, what architecture are you targetting? | 07:45 |
| mdavison | ARM | 07:45 |
| Stskeeps | we already have v5 and v7 targets at least | 07:45 |
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| mdavison | I dont really have a specific agenda | 07:46 |
| mdavison | I'm actually new to meego and *nix distros | 07:46 |
| sofar | welcome | 07:46 |
| Stskeeps | the thing is really that there's two meanings :) one is optimizing for a certain arm version and the other is just setting up a build environment :) | 07:46 |
| mdavison | and i want to know how distros are built | 07:46 |
| sofar | usually you take a different distro that is built for a target and start from there, or crosscompile | 07:47 |
| mdavison | okay | 07:47 |
| sofar | in both cases, recompiling everything is involved | 07:47 |
| mdavison | so how do i recompile everything? | 07:47 |
| ali1234 | http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/ | 07:47 |
| mdavison | i've heard that you can use poky etc to rebuild distros | 07:48 |
| sofar | use rpmbuild, on the source rpms | 07:48 |
| sofar | poky is one way | 07:48 |
| ali1234 | use rpmbuild, watch it totally fail, cry :/ | 07:48 |
| sofar | hehe | 07:48 |
| sofar | meego uses OBS to build | 07:48 |
| mdavison | i also heard about OpenEmbedded | 07:48 |
| mdavison | okay so OBS is a build system like poky or OE ? | 07:49 |
| sofar | yes | 07:49 |
| ali1234 | yes, but it is over 9000 times more complicated | 07:49 |
| sofar | haha | 07:49 |
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| sofar | ali1234: stay positive | 07:50 |
| mdavison | great :) | 07:50 |
| sofar | it doesn't mean that you should use obs | 07:50 |
| ali1234 | i highly recommend you go and read about LFS, OE, and maybe gentoo stage 1 handbook | 07:50 |
| sofar | you can do without obs if you only compile a few applications yourself | 07:50 |
| ali1234 | before you even attempt to bootstrap in OBS | 07:50 |
| sofar | if you have never compiled anything in linux, bootstrapping a distribution is far beyond your skills | 07:51 |
| mdavison | right then this means that meego sdk doesnt have anything to do with building distros :S | 07:51 |
| ali1234 | i disagree actually | 07:51 |
| ali1234 | if you follow LFS it's all laid out pretty easily for you | 07:51 |
| mdavison | I can handle bootstrapping .. i've got some experience working with packages in OE | 07:52 |
| Stskeeps | mdavison: we use OBS to build the distro :) | 07:52 |
| sofar | gee, you're so critical | 07:52 |
| sofar | ali1234: can't you just ... go along with people? | 07:52 |
| Stskeeps | mdavison: grab an account on build.opensuse.org and poke around in projects to see how it works in general | 07:52 |
| ali1234 | no | 07:52 |
| mdavison | Stskeeps: thanks | 07:52 |
| mdavison | i was actually googleing for meego sdk | 07:53 |
| sofar | that's a good pointer | 07:53 |
| mdavison | now it appears that it doesnt have anything to do with building distros yea? | 07:53 |
| sofar | correct | 07:53 |
| ali1234 | correct | 07:53 |
| sofar | the meego sdk is not something that builds an entire distro | 07:53 |
| Stskeeps | mdavison: meego sdk is usually for building apps in general - it gets messy with a lot of dependancies | 07:53 |
| ali1234 | most of the meego packages won't actually compile in the SDK :/ | 07:53 |
| mdavison | gee... there goes 2 hrs :( | 07:53 |
| ali1234 | i have a list somewhere but it is out of date | 07:54 |
| mdavison | Stskeeps: yea i got to that point :D | 07:54 |
| sofar | ali1234: file bugreports? | 07:54 |
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| ali1234 | sofar: i will one day | 07:55 |
| sofar | we need them today | 07:55 |
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| ali1234 | well, make a port to AMD you can have them | 07:56 |
| sofar | can't complain in irc and withold bugs from meego devs | 07:56 |
| sofar | sorry, I get paid to do the ssse3 port only | 07:56 |
| sofar | but, sdk bugs are not platform specific | 07:56 |
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| ali1234 | well then you'll just have to wait until i finish porting the SDK to AMD | 07:56 |
| sofar | file a bug about that | 07:57 |
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| Stskeeps | sofar: out of curiousity, what do you work on in meego? | 07:57 |
| sofar | <- auke | 07:58 |
| Stskeeps | ah | 07:58 |
| Stskeeps | well i wouldn't have been able to guess that :) | 07:58 |
| sofar | which doesn't answer your question ;) | 07:58 |
| Stskeeps | i don't even know what i work on at times, besides meego arm/n900 in general :P | 07:58 |
| sofar | fastboot, core stack, uxlaunch, dbus/udev, pam parts, anything about booting to X really | 07:59 |
| sofar | I also lead the distro engineering team in oregon, although I'm not an official manager | 07:59 |
| sofar | day-to-day engineering stuff | 07:59 |
| * Stskeeps has a fun day of trying to find out why gcc on arm is generating random W: shlib-with-non-pic-code | 07:59 | |
| sofar | yeah | 08:00 |
| sofar | pic-or-die | 08:00 |
| Stskeeps | which is kinda bad when entire qt is un-prelinkable | 08:00 |
| sofar | nod | 08:00 |
| sofar | wait qt-on-arm is not pic? | 08:00 |
| slonopotamus | pic-a-choo | 08:00 |
| sofar | I need to get mysefl a beagleboard or something | 08:01 |
| Stskeeps | sofar: the stupid part is that all the object code is built with -fPIC but there's like a TEXTREL with zero entries in it | 08:01 |
| slonopotamus | Stskeeps: gcc 4.5 has at least four bugs making it unusable on armv7. | 08:01 |
| sofar | can you strip that entire section perhaps? | 08:01 |
| slonopotamus | Stskeeps: i mean, four armv7-specific bugs | 08:01 |
| Stskeeps | slonopotamus: which? | 08:01 |
| Stskeeps | sofar: i'd rather figure out what causes it at first | 08:02 |
| sofar | true | 08:02 |
| Stskeeps | i've found some smaller libraries causing the same problem so will look into that today | 08:02 |
| Stskeeps | (non-qt) | 08:02 |
| * sofar ctrl-alt-left's off | 08:02 | |
| slonopotamus | Stskeeps: PR43698, PR45070, PR45094, PR43440 | 08:06 |
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| Stskeeps | slonopotamus: thanks | 08:06 |
| Stskeeps | first one we have a fix for | 08:07 |
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| Stskeeps | two,three doesn't directly affect us, fourth is neon specific, we don't use neon | 08:09 |
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| slonopotamus | Stskeeps: afaik, gentoo decided to just skip 4.5 | 08:14 |
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| slonopotamus | Stskeeps: does meego have some policy on hw requirements changes? | 08:24 |
| Stskeeps | slonopotamus: hmm? | 08:24 |
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| slonopotamus | Stskeeps: can't that happen that tomorrow meego _suddenly_ requires OpenGL 4.0 to run? | 08:27 |
| slonopotamus | Stskeeps: current ssse3 requirement is strange already. | 08:28 |
| Stskeeps | slonopotamus: that'll be have to be roadmapped and ssse3 is a longer story | 08:28 |
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| * Stskeeps goes back to figuring out the stupid fpic issue | 08:29 | |
| slonopotamus | isn't ssse3 is just a question of replacing/#ifdeffing ssse3 assembly with something more sane? | 08:29 |
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| dl9pf | ali1234: ok, how far did you come ? whats the issue ? | 08:48 |
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| mdavison | Stskeeps: is there guide/document that can help me set up a meego build on OBS? | 09:01 |
| Stskeeps | http://wiki.meego.com/Build_Infrastructure is a good start | 09:02 |
| Stskeeps | and http://wiki.meego.com/Category:Build_Infrastructure | 09:02 |
| mdavison | thanks | 09:03 |
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| thangam_arun | hello all | 09:47 |
| thangam_arun | i am compiling a Darwin Streaming server 6.0.3 on meego netbook SDK | 09:47 |
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| thangam_arun | getting some undefined reference erro | 09:48 |
| thangam_arun | undefined reference to `pthread_mutexattr_init' undefined reference to `pthread_once` undefined reference to `pthread_mutex_trylock' | 09:48 |
| thangam_arun | kindly help me on this | 09:48 |
| Stskeeps | -lpthread i think | 09:49 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 09:49 |
| thangam_arun | Stskeeps:i think it is linking http://pastebin.com/uDifWVw9 | 09:51 |
| thangam_arun | Stskeeps: can you please look at the link | 09:52 |
| Stskeeps | dunno, maybe link order | 09:52 |
| thangam_arun | Stskeeps: how to relove this | 09:53 |
| Stskeeps | not sure sorry, but same way other linux os's does it | 09:54 |
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| thangam_arun | Stskeeps: i am compiling the source from ".spec" file | 10:06 |
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| thangam_arun | Stskeeps: So how to approach this ? | 10:06 |
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| seshucl | Hello | 10:45 |
| seshucl | I have an ARM board in the netbook form | 10:45 |
| seshucl | Will I be able to install MeeGo Code OS on it? | 10:46 |
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| seshucl | *Core | 10:46 |
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| Stskeeps | can you boot your own kernel and rootfs | 10:46 |
| Stskeeps | ? | 10:46 |
| seshucl | yes | 10:46 |
| seshucl | I can... | 10:47 |
| Stskeeps | seshucl: ARMv5, ARMv6, ARMv7? | 10:47 |
| seshucl | ARMv7 | 10:47 |
| Stskeeps | then that's a yes | 10:47 |
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| seshucl | Great to know...do I have to download meego-n900-open-armv7l-1.0.0.20100525.1-vmlinuz-2.6.33.3-11.2-n900 | 10:48 |
| Stskeeps | no, just the rootfs | 10:49 |
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| seshucl | Stskeeps: Can you please elaborate...sorry, I'm being a spoon fed baby! | 10:51 |
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| vlj | vgrade: hi | 10:55 |
| slaine | morning all | 10:55 |
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| Khertan1 | Morningg all ! | 10:57 |
| Stskeeps | morn Khertan1 | 10:58 |
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| seshucl | Okay...anyways, thanks for the pointers/hints...I think I can work my way through | 11:02 |
| seshucl | ...atleast to some extent... | 11:02 |
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| Stskeeps | seshucl: sorry, was doing some work | 11:05 |
| Stskeeps | seshucl: http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/trunk/1.0.80.15.20100817.1/core/images/meego-core-armv7l-n900/ | 11:06 |
| Stskeeps | raw.tar.bz2 has a sd card image inside | 11:06 |
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| seshucl | Stskeeps: no worries my friend. That's more then what I need to head start... | 11:07 |
| seshucl | Thank you again! | 11:08 |
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| vgrade_ | vlj, morning | 11:10 |
| vlj | morning vgrade_ | 11:11 |
| dcthang | morning everyone | 11:14 |
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| sivang | morning all | 11:15 |
| sivang | where does one indicate he needs conference sponsership to attend? | 11:15 |
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| seshucl | sivang: ?? | 11:16 |
| sivang | seshucl: s/conference/travel exapnses/ | 11:17 |
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| seshucl | ok..you mean the Qt developer conf? | 11:18 |
| Stskeeps | no, conference2010.meego.com | 11:18 |
| sivang | seshucl: Qt developer conf could be great, but there's just so many confs a man can attend a year :) | 11:18 |
| sivang | but yes, what Stskeeps said | 11:19 |
| Jaffa | sivang: On the registration screen there's a checkbox for "assistance" | 11:19 |
| X-Fade | Morning Jaffa | 11:19 |
| X-Fade | Morning Jaffa | 11:19 |
| sivang | Jaffa: I see, thanks. | 11:19 |
| sivang | morning X-Fade | 11:19 |
| X-Fade | Damn multiple windows redrawing badly ;) | 11:20 |
| sivang | heh | 11:20 |
| sivang | what desktop env? | 11:20 |
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| X-Fade | xterm ;) | 11:20 |
| X-Fade | But irrssi in a screen, and irssi with 10 window split ;) | 11:21 |
| sivang | ah, well, I still use gnome-term and IRSSI, until I switch to MeeGo | 11:21 |
| sivang | ah, same here | 11:21 |
| sivang | good for me latency is not so latent today! :) | 11:21 |
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| seshucl | sivang: Question - Is there a place where you'd/somebody would post the presentations, new update etc so people who could not attend can read and update themselves. | 11:27 |
| seshucl | *new update = news updates/conf updates. | 11:27 |
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| sivang | seshucl: I'm sure something like that would be set up, also I should propose to use some online collaboration tools, like that distributed text editor for example comonly used in Ubuntu conferences. | 11:34 |
| seshucl | Sure, that will help! :-) | 11:35 |
| dcthang | Has anybody here installed kde on meego? | 11:36 |
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| sivang | seshucl: this is one tool http://gobby.0x539.de/trac/ | 11:37 |
| sivang | seshucl: also, google docs seems to carry promises for effective online collaboration | 11:37 |
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| seshucl | well, yes...reading a bit about these tool/features... | 11:45 |
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| seshucl | Stskeeps & sivang: What's your time zone..., If I may ask? | 11:46 |
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| sivang | seshucl: UTC+2 (+1 for DS) | 11:51 |
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| seshucl | Well, thanks...I'm UTC-7 | 11:59 |
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| seshucl | Catch you guys soon again...have a nice day. Bye. | 12:00 |
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| * thiago times the meego boot | 12:10 | |
| thiago | 20 seconds from power button to usable meego | 12:11 |
| thiago | 10 of which were spent on POST | 12:11 |
| Stskeeps | thiago: so, we don't have NEON in meego qt on armv7l - how bad a thing is this? | 12:12 |
| thiago | Qt compiles with Neon always, if it finds that the compiler supports it | 12:13 |
| thiago | you can't turn it off | 12:13 |
| Stskeeps | thiago: hmm | 12:13 |
| Stskeeps | thiago: well, we don't have neon as we don't have -mfpu=neon according to log | 12:15 |
| Stskeeps | as in, we don't have it in optimization flags | 12:16 |
| Stskeeps | (intended, afaik) | 12:16 |
| thiago | Qt enables it | 12:16 |
| Stskeeps | http://pastebin.com/EgBBQwvG | 12:16 |
| thiago | the same way that Qt enables MMX, SSE and SSE2 on x86 | 12:16 |
| thiago | it's not the -mfpu= that is missing | 12:17 |
| thiago | it's the -mfloat-abi= | 12:17 |
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| thiago | it must be softfp or hard | 12:17 |
| Stskeeps | hmm | 12:17 |
| Stskeeps | + CFLAGS='-O2 -g -pipe -Wall -Wp,-D_FORTIFY_SOURCE=2 -fexceptions -fstack-protector --param=ssp-buffer-size=4 -fmessage-length=0 -march=armv7-a -mtune=cortex-a8 -mlittle-endian -mfpu=vfpv3 -mfloat-abi=softfp -D__SOFTFP__' | 12:18 |
| Stskeeps | or does it use CXXFLAGS? | 12:18 |
| thiago | not for all tests | 12:18 |
| thiago | Qt doesn't like environment variables | 12:18 |
| thiago | modify the mkspec | 12:18 |
| Stskeeps | k | 12:19 |
| Stskeeps | i think the issue is a bit that not all armv7 has neon so it's not enabled by default (nvidia, marvell) in meego armv7 | 12:20 |
| Stskeeps | in cases like that some run-time detection or even config would be good, for omap and so on to take advantage of neon | 12:22 |
| Stskeeps | as recompiling entire qt might be a bit overkill/cause other problems | 12:23 |
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| sivang | not meaning to interrupt, but I'm curious to learn about this- So Neon is a 2D/3D gfx hardware acceleration in the ARM arch ? or for any general purpose arithmatics | 12:45 |
| sivang | ? | 12:45 |
| sivang | how it is used, where etc, is there a meego doc about that? | 12:45 |
| lcuk | my understanding was that its for large vector operations - upto 128bit afaik | 12:45 |
| sivang | lcuk: so to enable matrices calcs in parallel ? (I read that it's a packed SIMD) | 12:46 |
| lcuk | thats how I read it too - I might be wrong but until then thats what I think ;) | 12:46 |
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| CosmoHill | Morning. | 12:46 |
| sivang | okay, thanks lcuk :) | 12:47 |
| slaine | vgrade, looking at the irc log ont he GMA500/joggler wiki page | 12:48 |
| slaine | you asked arjan a question, poked him a few times and then thanked him | 12:48 |
| slaine | Did he respond off lost ? | 12:49 |
| slaine | sorry | 12:49 |
| slaine | off the channel ? | 12:49 |
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| Stskeeps | vgrade_: i think you're barking up the wrong tree - arjan has nothing to deal with emgd - it's a different department. they had a legit problem - no right to redistribute on repo.meego.com | 12:49 |
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| thiago | Stskeeps: Qt detects Neon at runtime (I think...) | 12:55 |
| thiago | I actually don't know if it can be detected | 12:55 |
| CosmoHill | thiago: would it tell you that in config.log ? | 12:55 |
| thiago | no, it can't be detected at runtime | 12:56 |
| thiago | but it can be disabled at runtime (QT_NO_NEON=1) | 12:56 |
| X-Fade | It is in /proc/cpuinfo, but that doesn't help when building ;) | 12:56 |
| Stskeeps | ah, that might be useful | 12:56 |
| thiago | we don't have assembly code for detecting its presence | 12:57 |
| thiago | reading from /proc/cpuinfo is a good idea | 12:57 |
| CosmoHill | cat /proc/cpuinfo | grep neon > /dev/null; echo $? | 12:58 |
| thiago | programmatically :-) | 12:58 |
| thiago | in src/corelib/tools/qsimd.cpp | 12:58 |
| thiago | RESULT : tst_QString::ucstrncmp():"shortwise": | 12:59 |
| X-Fade | Also gets karma from external sources like digg and technorati etc. | 12:59 |
| sivang | thiago: opening the file and readLine() it? :) | 12:59 |
| thiago | 36,085,242.5 CPU ticks per iteration (total: 144,340,970, iterations: 4) | 12:59 |
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| thiago | RESULT : tst_QString::ucstrncmp():"ssse3": 27,594,897.5 CPU ticks per iteration (total: 110,379,590, iterations: 4) | 12:59 |
| X-Fade | -EWINDOW :( | 12:59 |
| thiago | for those wondering if ssse3 makes a difference | 12:59 |
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| thiago | 25% faster | 12:59 |
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| Stskeeps | thiago: out of morbid curiousity, does QT_NO_SSSE3 exist too? | 13:02 |
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| thiago | as an environment variable? no | 13:02 |
| thiago | currently, all SSSE3 code is runtime-checked | 13:02 |
| Stskeeps | ok | 13:03 |
| thiago | on x86, we can do cpuid | 13:03 |
| CosmoHill | thiago: ooo | 13:03 |
| sivang | thiago: isn't ssse3 only for intel procs? | 13:03 |
| Stskeeps | does the compile flags with -fssse3 (or whatever) try to optimize any code or is just so you have access to SSSE3 instructions? | 13:03 |
| thiago | sivang: yes | 13:04 |
| thiago | Stskeeps: they try to optimise code | 13:04 |
| thiago | which makes it very hard for us to enable such features | 13:04 |
| thiago | we need separate .cpp for each featureset | 13:04 |
| sivang | ah okay, I Was wondering why in the discussion on armv7 you guys move to talk about ssse3 :) | 13:05 |
| slaine | that's the right way imo | 13:05 |
| thiago | and the expense of the call is sometimes not worth it | 13:05 |
| Stskeeps | sivang: similar type of thing | 13:05 |
| thiago | so for the QString optimisations, I'm not going to insert CPU detection | 13:05 |
| thiago | if you compile with -mssse3, you get it, otherwise you don't | 13:05 |
| sivang | ah, so intel's SIMD instruction set as Neon is arm's | 13:06 |
| thiago | yes | 13:06 |
| slaine | nod | 13:06 |
| Stskeeps | i wonder if the NEON one applies in same way, ie, we cannot reliably assume that QT_NO_NEON will actually avoid 'non neon instructions'? | 13:06 |
| thiago | except that there are multiple levels of SIMD on x86 | 13:06 |
| thiago | SSE, SSE2, SSE3, SSSE3, SSE4.1, 4.2, 4a | 13:06 |
| sivang | thiago: wow I see, they differ in bitness? | 13:07 |
| thiago | more instructions | 13:07 |
| slaine | Isn't ssse3 a subset of sse3 ? | 13:07 |
| thiago | slaine: superset | 13:07 |
| slaine | ah | 13:07 |
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| lbt | nb thiago, I don't think there's an issue as to whether ssse3 should be present.... it's more about asking if it has to be enabled in such a way as to affect every single binary... | 13:10 |
| thiago | depends on the case | 13:10 |
| lbt | the load to support non-ssse3 is now *every* package | 13:10 |
| lbt | does cron really benefit? | 13:11 |
| lbt | or cat? | 13:11 |
| thiago | if it's easy to separate out and then do CPU detection, do it | 13:11 |
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| thiago | we've done for all the large image and painting operations | 13:11 |
| thiago | my problem is qstring.cpp | 13:11 |
| thiago | the benefit is not in the 4x range, but in the 20% range | 13:11 |
| thiago | and that's quickly offset by the complexity required to do the CPU detection and extra call | 13:12 |
| thiago | the compiler cannot inline the code because it's in a separate .cpp | 13:12 |
| CosmoHill | so it benefits from ssse3 but the benefits are canceled out by the need to detect ssse3? | 13:12 |
| thiago | and I can't put it in the same .cpp otherwise the rest of the code might use instructions not present | 13:13 |
| timeless | compilers doing PGO can, right? | 13:13 |
| thiago | CosmoHill: yes | 13:13 |
| thiago | timeless: no, manually-written intrinsics in the .cpp file | 13:13 |
| thiago | I can't use the intrinsics unless the respective compiler flag was passed on the command-line | 13:14 |
| lcuk | thiago, I saw some stats on the various qt string functions | 13:14 |
| lcuk | the one that stood out as benefit/usability was the 4byte long one | 13:14 |
| thiago | lcuk: yeah | 13:14 |
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| lcuk | it wasnt the fastest, but it was certainly the most usable on multiplatform | 13:14 |
| timeless | isn't this a case where one just wants to cpu detect and pull in the right library or function pointer? | 13:14 |
| thiago | timeless: the indirect call is far too expensive | 13:15 |
| timeless | from memory you one can do some pretty evil things as part of library initialization | 13:15 |
| timeless | people think of it as merely being static code, but it isn't | 13:15 |
| lcuk | sure timeless, but its the inline functions that will suffer | 13:15 |
| timeless | lcuk: if they aren't in the same .cpp, then they aren't going to be inlined, right? | 13:16 |
| timeless | wasn't that thiago's point? | 13:16 |
| thiago | lcuk: I've spent the past week trying to optimise the functions to compare strings in Qt | 13:16 |
| lcuk | yes, and possibly it was your result list I saw thiago | 13:16 |
| thiago | lcuk: on my i7, using SIMD helps a lot | 13:16 |
| thiago | but on the Atom, the unaligned loads are a penalty | 13:16 |
| thiago | hence the attempt to use SSSE3, to reduce the number of unaligned loads | 13:17 |
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| lcuk | the 4byte one stands out to me | 13:17 |
| lcuk | because its similar to how I was mucking with the blitter | 13:17 |
| thiago | yeah, it depends on the bus width | 13:18 |
| thiago | I'm not sure the Atom can do 16-byte loads in one cycle | 13:18 |
| thiago | the i7 can | 13:18 |
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| lcuk | but in the little set of results, those operations did not give uber benefit over the normal one? | 13:18 |
| thiago | 20-25% improvement | 13:19 |
| thiago | ucstrncmp is the most-called function in qstring.cpp | 13:19 |
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| lcuk | cool | 13:19 |
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| CosmoHill | will a intel GMA3100 work with meego? | 13:21 |
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| sivang | timeless: PGO requires static previous execution metrics, how is this usually done? </curious> | 13:22 |
| CosmoHill | or a X4500HD? | 13:22 |
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| sivang | timeless: (at least so wikipedia says) | 13:23 |
| timeless | typically you run your app through some paces building traces | 13:24 |
| timeless | you can either do this as part of a two pass build system, or collect them once and store them w/ your build system | 13:24 |
| timeless | netscape did the latter ~8 years ago | 13:24 |
| timeless | mozilla is doing the former today iiuc | 13:24 |
| sivang | and the data has to be stored somewhere, but I take it it is light and not a space overhead? | 13:26 |
| timeless | https://developer.mozilla.org/en/building_with_profile-guided_optimization | 13:26 |
| sivang | ah no, it is profiling and then modifying the machine code to match, I had the crazy idea it can do that in runtime. | 13:26 |
| timeless | if you're doing it as part of a two pass build system, then it only has to last for the life span of a build | 13:27 |
| sivang | yes | 13:27 |
| * sivang read the mozilla link | 13:27 | |
| timeless | the laternative is when you store the data as netscape did w/ the sources | 13:27 |
| timeless | s/lat/alt/ | 13:27 |
| infobot | timeless meant: the alternative is when you store the data as netscape did w/ the sources | 13:27 |
| timeless | the problem w/ that is that the data tends to get stale/out-of-date | 13:27 |
| sivang | right, so you need frequent profiling runs with every change? | 13:28 |
| timeless | the builders which do PGO do profiling as part of each build | 13:28 |
| timeless | the build is two pass | 13:28 |
| timeless | first it builds w/o hints then it profiles and rebuilds using the data | 13:28 |
| sivang | why were netscape doing the latter then? | 13:29 |
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| timeless | much faster build system | 13:29 |
| timeless | all engineers could share the build process | 13:29 |
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| timeless | and only one person had to update the profile data | 13:29 |
| timeless | using a possibly secret dataset | 13:30 |
| timeless | the number of cpu cycles for the netscape system is much lower | 13:30 |
| timeless | but the results aren't as good | 13:30 |
| timeless | it's a tradeoff | 13:30 |
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| timeless | which isn't so bad if you think about it | 13:30 |
| sivang | ah I see. | 13:30 |
| timeless | remember netscape only needed good profile results for shipped binaries (official releases) | 13:31 |
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| timeless | actually, the same logic more or less applies today | 13:32 |
| sivang | given low number of cpu cycles for the build, increasing them meant increasing resulting performance? (more optimization passes at the resulting binary) | 13:32 |
| timeless | but the problem is that if you don't do profiling regularly, it's very easy for the code for it to rust | 13:32 |
| timeless | which means you won't spot problems until it's too late | 13:32 |
| timeless | well, that depends | 13:33 |
| sivang | (optimization pass in my understanding- reorganizing the resulting code to be better perfromant then the previous pass) | 13:33 |
| timeless | in theory it's possible that the netscape guided profile was more thorough | 13:33 |
| sivang | oh | 13:34 |
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| CosmoHill | I've just speced up a computer which I think is meego compatable for £362.47 | 13:34 |
| timeless | i'm not sure ... | 13:34 |
| timeless | cosmohill: get insurance against it being compatible :) | 13:34 |
| CosmoHill | well I'm not going to buy it, it costs money :( | 13:34 |
| sivang | CosmoHill: there's that cheap LG neotebook :) | 13:35 |
| sivang | CosmoHill: I got it for quite cheap and Arjan told me meego should run every well there :) | 13:35 |
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| CosmoHill | if I wanted to I could use a i5 750 | 13:36 |
| sivang | CosmoHill: http://www.itechnews.net/2009/10/23/lg-xnote-t380-gr73k-culv-notebook-with-windows-7/ | 13:36 |
| CosmoHill | that would being the price up to 428.27 | 13:37 |
| sivang | CosmoHill: midn the irritating keyboard and typing miss, and you are sorted :) | 13:37 |
| CosmoHill | oo | 13:37 |
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| CosmoHill | what I was aiming for was a cheap developer desktop which could be upgraded | 13:38 |
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| sivang | CosmoHill: I managed to build Qt on it in just a bit less then 4 hours | 13:39 |
| sivang | :) | 13:39 |
| CosmoHill | lol | 13:39 |
| CosmoHill | my personal best ( worst) is GCC with tests in 25 hours | 13:39 |
| CosmoHill | I think next time I do that I'm moving that computer out of my bedroom | 13:40 |
| CosmoHill | anyway I'll let you get back to your discussion that I interrupted | 13:40 |
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| npr664 | hello! do you know something about Pinta package? | 13:45 |
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| ismael | Hi npr664! | 13:46 |
| * timeless beats the stuffing out of: | 13:46 | |
| timeless | warning: detected divergent renames of toolkit/mozapps/extensions/test/addons/test_bug542391_3/install.rdf to: | 13:46 |
| npr664 | Hi Isamel! | 13:47 |
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| teizz | Quick question, I'm trying to get "Handset UX weekly 1.0.80.13.20100803.2 kernel" to use /dev/mccblk1p1 (microsd-card) as rootfs. | 14:08 |
| teizz | default is waits for /dev/mmcblk0p1 and shutsdown after a while | 14:09 |
| teizz | giving root=/dev/mmcblk1p1 as boot option results in a panic | 14:09 |
| CosmoHill | do you have more than one CD card? | 14:09 |
| Stskeeps | did you put your back cover on? | 14:09 |
| CosmoHill | *SD | 14:09 |
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| teizz | this is on a n900, just one sd card, and the cover is back on :) | 14:10 |
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| Stskeeps | microsd will be mmcblk0p1 at boot | 14:10 |
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| sivang | CosmoHill: oh and I don't you interrupted any discussion :) | 14:11 |
| CosmoHill | yay | 14:11 |
| sivang | s//think/ | 14:12 |
| teizz | Stskeeps: ah, that clears it up somewhat. I dd'ed the raw to my sd card in maemo. I'll get a cardreader and see if that works better :) | 14:12 |
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| teizz | mounting it in maemo however does show the rootfs so why the kernel is waiting for it and then shuts down, I don't know | 14:13 |
| * sivang should fine the time to upgrade to pr1.2 :-p | 14:13 | |
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| maclaver | teizz: I had similar problems yesterday, there was something strange about dd'ing into the SD on the N900. I got around it using the windows disk imager. | 14:20 |
| maclaver | teizz: (If you have a windows box that is). | 14:20 |
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| teizz | maclaver: I have a linux box, but no mmc->sd converter to read the card. I should run to the shop and pick one up :) | 14:21 |
| sivang | hmm so Canonical rolled they own touch framework? | 14:23 |
| sivang | *their | 14:23 |
| teizz | maclaver: I do see however, with the cover removed that it continues past the 'waiting for /dev/mmcblk0p1'. but I'm guessing it found the internal card then? | 14:23 |
| sivang | no already existing frameworks used? | 14:23 |
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| teizz | ah! I did have a magnet laying around. turns out it does boot when I remove my battery, put a magnet to simulate cover presence and replace battery while running the flasher | 14:36 |
| teizz | <-- n00b | 14:36 |
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| CosmoHill | teizz: no idea why that set off my highlight | 14:37 |
| CosmoHill | first person who says "cos it said n00b" gets a smack | 14:37 |
| teizz | lol | 14:37 |
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| robtaylor | Who's sysadminning the meego conference site? I just got an error on uploading a profile pic | 14:50 |
| robtaylor | * The selected file sites/all/files/tmp/profileRob.jpg could not be uploaded, because the destination is not properly configured. | 14:50 |
| robtaylor | * Failed to upload the picture image; the user_pics directory doesn't exist or is not writable. | 14:50 |
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| vgrade_ | slaine, Stekeeps, The thanks was for his non response to my repeated question, I took that to mean GMA500 will never have a future in MeeGo. I understand that the EMGD drivers should not have been on repo.meego but wanted to know if Arjan had any plans for the future. | 14:51 |
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| Stskeeps | vgrade_: generally it's a bit rude to constantly repeat a question :P this isn't a tabloid :) | 14:52 |
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| slaine | What's the difference between the non-OSS repo that the WiMax drivers are in and the EMGD drivers requirements ? | 14:53 |
| slaine | Do you have to sign an NDA to use the latest psb drivers ? | 14:53 |
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| vlj | slaine: psb driver != emgd driver | 14:58 |
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| vlj | psb was written by dell+ubuntu | 14:59 |
| vlj | emgd is written by intel | 14:59 |
| slaine | was just using it as a short version of poulsbo or however you spell it | 14:59 |
| slaine | didn't realize there was another driver called psb | 14:59 |
| vlj | psb is the driver shipped with ubuntu | 15:00 |
| slaine | got it | 15:00 |
| vlj | emgd is a not yet publicy shipped driver | 15:00 |
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| vgrade_ | Stskeeps, and also rude not to answer :) | 15:01 |
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| sid3windr | hey vgrade_ - I made an image using your instructions and have meego "up" and running, however is it normal I only have a clock and an xterm on screen? | 15:04 |
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| sid3windr | (right in time for the emgd drivers, too ;) | 15:07 |
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| Stskeeps | slaine, non-oss only contains redistributable bits | 15:08 |
| slaine | right, so needs nda at the moment iirc | 15:08 |
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| slaine | as vlj commented, it's not released yet | 15:08 |
| Stskeeps | slaine, imgtec has allowed this for pvr-bin so not a far throw to emgd | 15:08 |
| * sid3windr is working with intel to get emgd nda'd, too | 15:09 | |
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| sid3windr | well, with 4 people in between anyway | 15:09 |
| Stskeeps | bureaucracy is always fun | 15:09 |
| slaine | I'll say again, it's a pity is such a bloody mess. The hardware seems to be quit capable | 15:09 |
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| slaine | quite | 15:09 |
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| timeless | you prefer clean messes? | 15:10 |
| timeless | or pink messes? | 15:10 |
| Stskeeps | i dont fully understand why the xorg driver is closed though | 15:10 |
| vlj | because it was closed in iegd | 15:10 |
| Stskeeps | libs, no problem, xorg.. | 15:10 |
| timeless | it probably discloses spec details about unannounced products | 15:10 |
| Stskeeps | ah, legacy.. | 15:10 |
| timeless | historically drivers disclose things like the specific supplier vendor, resolution of display, camera, etc | 15:11 |
| timeless | oh, in other news, as of around aug 11 or 13 or so, mozilla is using gcc4.5.1 in some env | 15:13 |
| sivang | ah, GMA500 | 15:14 |
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| Phazorx | hrm... can nyone pleas suggest a reason why connman fails to connect after reboot (and forgets WPA2 cridentials)? | 15:15 |
| Stskeeps | Phazorx: does your MAC change? | 15:16 |
| Phazorx | on reboot? unlikely | 15:16 |
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| Phazorx | at least i dont have any scripts that force the change | 15:17 |
| vgrade_ | sid3windr, close the xtern and the clock, you should then have the UX | 15:18 |
| sivang | the current yotubes for Joggler are meego with emgd in? | 15:19 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 15:20 |
| vgrade_ | sivang, yes | 15:20 |
| sivang | nice | 15:20 |
| Stskeeps | so it is quite capable driver | 15:20 |
| sivang | so MeeGo is a natural Linux distro for those millions of netbooks using it :) | 15:21 |
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| Stskeeps | if only licensing was right. | 15:21 |
| sivang | back then I bought an ION based machine because Ubuntu did not support it | 15:21 |
| sivang | for netbook, that is. | 15:21 |
| * CosmoHill is in uni now ;) | 15:22 | |
| sivang | Stskeeps: is it NDA'd or requires a contributor's agreenment? | 15:22 |
| Phazorx | Stskeeps: i actualyy see in dmesg that it does authenticate but panel icon keeps spinning and something blocks from providing it the service, then it fail - i retype same key and it reconnects with no issues | 15:22 |
| Stskeeps | sivang: atm non-released as the emgd on repo.meego.com was there by accident | 15:23 |
| sivang | ah I see. | 15:23 |
| vgrade_ | it is other places | 15:23 |
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| sid3windr | vgrade_: oh, doh =) | 15:29 |
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| sid3windr | vgrade_: thanks btw for the kickstart files and this tip ;) | 15:29 |
| Phazorx | lame question.. how can i get automake/autoconf work under meego? | 15:30 |
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| Phazorx | yum/zypper dont see the packages... are they bundled and shipped as something else? | 15:30 |
| vgrade_ | sidwindr, what platform are you on? | 15:31 |
| vgrade_ | sid3windr, what platform are you on | 15:31 |
| sid3windr | custom atom tablet with gma500 | 15:31 |
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| vgrade_ | custom? | 15:31 |
| vgrade_ | pics, video | 15:31 |
| sid3windr | custom as in "developed by $customer" | 15:32 |
| sid3windr | can't disclose anything yet unfortunately :) | 15:32 |
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| vlj | sivang: your ion machine does not work with emgd, does it ? | 15:32 |
| sid3windr | touchscreen doesnt work yet, but we'll be changing to another touchscreen anyway so I'm not spending time on that yet | 15:32 |
| sid3windr | I'm already happy it starts, with Stskeeps' ks I didn't get that far a few months ago :[ | 15:33 |
| sivang | vlj: nope, it has ION, it uses ether nv or nvidia | 15:33 |
| vlj | err | 15:33 |
| sivang | vlj: emgd is capable of running nVidia's ? | 15:34 |
| vlj | s/emgd/Meego | 15:34 |
| Stskeeps | no | 15:34 |
| vgrade_ | I'm getting a bit miffed with this, you put the hours in, provide wiki material, share things and all you get is can't download that, can't disclose the other | 15:34 |
| sivang | vlj: it has GMA4500 so I don't think so | 15:34 |
| Stskeeps | vgrade_: nothing the open source part of intel can do anything about.. | 15:34 |
| sivang | vlj: well, the driver is unrealeased, so no :) | 15:34 |
| sid3windr | vgrade_: I did say "yet" - alas nothing I can change at the moment :) | 15:35 |
| vlj | sivang: there is a nvidia driver | 15:35 |
| sivang | vlj: for MeeGo ? | 15:35 |
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| sivang | nvidia, as the prop. tainting driver? | 15:35 |
| vlj | yup | 15:35 |
| Stskeeps | vgrade_: when it comes to SGX, it's usually not the hardware vendor's fault it's closed | 15:35 |
| sid3windr | I hope the intel negotiations go ok so we have some better luck with emgd | 15:35 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 15:35 |
| * sivang recalls with a grin the messages from kernel build process that the driver is going to 'taint' the kernel | 15:35 | |
| vlj | but it seems not to be compatible with meego | 15:35 |
| vlj | the moblin interface did not work with nvidia proprietary driver | 15:36 |
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| vlj | is xorg-server built with the --no-xinerama option ? | 15:40 |
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| slaine | vlj, that used to be the case | 15:56 |
| slaine | not sure now | 15:56 |
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| vlj | because the --no-xinerama make nvidia driver uninstallable | 15:59 |
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| * thiago installed the MeeGo Netbook 1.0.80 without touching the keyboard or mouse | 16:08 | |
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| Bostik | now that sounds like a clean install procedure | 16:08 |
| thiago | ok, reached a point where I need to use the keyboard | 16:09 |
| thiago | typing the username and password | 16:09 |
| leinir | Step 1: Take ROM chip out. Step 2: Insert new ROM. Step 3: ...profit? ;) | 16:09 |
| heibox | Is hostapd or wpad already in the repository, or how will a WiFi access point work? | 16:09 |
| * thiago was using the touchscreen | 16:10 | |
| leinir | Aah ;) | 16:10 |
| * leinir is looking forward to that on the touchbook... | 16:10 | |
| Stskeeps | then port it | 16:10 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 16:11 |
| leinir | *giggles* Oh, i'm busy making other nifty things, but i understand people are, in fact, working on it :) | 16:11 |
| * leinir pokes Aard "...or am i misunderstanding things?" ;) | 16:11 | |
| leinir | (wouldn't be the first time ;) ) | 16:11 |
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| Aard | ouch. | 16:12 |
| leinir | Not that 'ard... *ducks* ;) | 16:12 |
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| Aard | trying to get the motivation to change the ugly mic-image-creator to directly write squashfs images... | 16:13 |
| leinir | *nods* :) | 16:13 |
| * CosmoHill growls at the Rocks head node for not netbooting it's nodes | 16:14 | |
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| CosmoHill | hey DawnFoster | 16:38 |
| DawnFoster | hey cosmohill | 16:38 |
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| DawnFoster | Quick reminder to everyone that we have a TSG meeting today at 19:00 UTC. Details & agenda here: http://wiki.meego.com/Technical_Steering_Group_meetings | 16:39 |
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| CosmoHill | thanks | 16:43 |
| Stskeeps | DawnFoster: says august 11 in the top :) | 16:43 |
| DawnFoster | stskeeps: oops - fixed now :) | 16:44 |
| Stskeeps | interesting nomination | 16:45 |
| Stskeeps | (given that there was a different guy listed in that position before) | 16:45 |
| Stskeeps | but i guess that'll be mentioned tonight | 16:46 |
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| CosmoHill | damn laptop | 17:00 |
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| * CosmoHill stabs | 17:17 | |
| CosmoHill | damn firewall | 17:17 |
| CosmoHill | it's blocking it's own services >.< | 17:18 |
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| sebs__ | hello, is anybody there who would waste some time to guide me through the insallation process of meego on a n900 deviceß | 17:33 |
| sebs__ | to be more exact: i am not sure which of the 2 files i need to put on the dvice with flasher | 17:33 |
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| Stskeeps | sebs__: did you read wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Install/MMC ? | 17:33 |
| sebs__ | hmm i have no access to a external mmc card | 17:34 |
| Stskeeps | you'll need to buy a microsd then | 17:34 |
| sebs__ | this is the easiest way? | 17:35 |
| Stskeeps | and only | 17:35 |
| Stskeeps | well, best | 17:35 |
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| sebs__ | ah okay | 17:35 |
| sebs__ | will it work with a already wasted n900 from previous attempts? | 17:36 |
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| sebs__ | okay, now the mision is to get a SD card reader, this questseries better gets me a lot of XP, an achievement and a lot of GOLD. | 17:38 |
| sebs__ | besides the epic linux handheld device ;) | 17:38 |
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| * sebs__ goot his stuff | 17:41 | |
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| sebs__ | Stskeeps: Can you point me to the two files i will need for the next step? I have multiple files that are presuambly wrong | 17:42 |
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| Stskeeps | sebs__: http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/meego-codedrop.php , meego-handset-armv7l-n900-nokia-proprietary-1.0.80.15.20100817.1-mmcblk0p.raw.bz2 and http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/meego-codedrop.php?f=meego-handset-armv7l-n900-nokia-proprietary-1.0.80.15.20100817.1-vmlinuz-2.6.35-11.2-n900 | 17:44 |
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| Stskeeps | wb wazd | 17:50 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: o/ | 17:50 |
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| sebs__ | Thanks Stskeeps | 17:51 |
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| sebs__ | btw: whatfor am I doing ths? My colleague, a editor at a german news website about mobilephones and computers asked me to do this. So he can show of the meego in an article | 17:54 |
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| Stskeeps | sebs__: ah, well, just be sure to indicate it is a -development image- :P | 17:55 |
| Stskeeps | as in, work in progress, we're not even at beta yet | 17:55 |
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| sebs__ | yeah, but a good way to show something off ;) we are not indicating that our users should get the images and install them | 17:57 |
| sebs__ | but a good way to see for people where stuff goes | 17:57 |
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| sebs__ | brb ... crappy meetings | 17:58 |
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| tybollt | Stskeeps: will you be doing milestones every now and then or will there be set intervals between each update. | 18:06 |
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| Stskeeps | tybollt: go check wiki.meego.com/Release_engineering (or Engineering, I forget) | 18:06 |
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| stinkydog | hello everyone | 18:07 |
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| stinkydog | I'm using meego on a asus 1001p boot'n live from a 4gig flashdrive (dont 'cha know) I'm wondering why couldn't I boot on a cd/dvd live to install to an empty flash drive and where | 18:09 |
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| stinkydog | and where it wouldn't install any other boot loader. So when I don't have the flash drive in... i don't get meego.. just regular windows. | 18:10 |
| stinkydog | i tried it with ubuntu and made a mess of things. | 18:11 |
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| stinkydog | knoppix used to let you boot off the live cd and create a little partition for updating and ... swap file.. i think they called it.... | 18:12 |
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| thiago | meego netbook doesn't ask for a password when booting | 18:16 |
| thiago | but does when resuming from suspend | 18:16 |
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| luist | hey guys... i just installed a meego and did some changes... how can i create a .img from my system? i want to transform the .img into a virtual machine | 18:33 |
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| sebs__uselessact | /nick sebs__ | 19:08 |
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| sebs__ | Stskeeps: Hmm, do i need to unpack the bz2 file or do i stick it bz2ed on the sd card? | 19:14 |
| CosmoHill | is it raw.bz2 ? | 19:15 |
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| wazd | If anyone interested, I'm working on MeeGo Handset homescreen template for widget design | 19:16 |
| wazd | http://s004.radikal.ru/i208/1008/28/bb2d660c9ae4.png | 19:16 |
| sebs__ | CosmiHill: Yes, sir, yes | 19:16 |
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| CosmoHill | i'd imagine you'd need to decompress it then | 19:17 |
| CosmoHill | wazd: looks nice but i can see the grading | 19:17 |
| CosmoHill | would that be noticable on the handset? | 19:17 |
| sebs__ | kk | 19:18 |
| wazd | CosmoHill: I'd like to replace the wallpaper anyway :) | 19:18 |
| ali1234 | this is what happened on my OBS while i was sleeping | 19:18 |
| ali1234 | mpc compiled successfully, which allowed gcc to compile successfully | 19:19 |
| lcuk | wazd, have you gota nice blue one lying around? :) | 19:19 |
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| lcuk | and what happens to those background when you switch to landscape | 19:19 |
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| ali1234 | after gcc compiled it tried to recompile mpc, but it died in configure saying "configure: error: C compiler cannot create executables" | 19:19 |
| * sebs__ prays for more disk IO while unpacking | 19:20 | |
| wazd | lcuk: well, Marina's only I guess :) | 19:20 |
| ali1234 | build log: http://pastebin.com/FJEPyQwA | 19:20 |
| lcuk | is meego themable | 19:20 |
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| CosmoHill | ali1234: funny, someone else had that problem with binutils 10 mins ago | 19:21 |
| tripzero | lcuk, yes | 19:21 |
| tripzero | lcuk, well, i guess one should ask which "meego" you are referring to.... | 19:22 |
| lcuk | tripzero, do you want to send over a red cross theming pack (or link to details) to wazd then :P | 19:22 |
| ali1234 | CosmoHill: really? because i just read the backlog from when i went to sleep last night, and i didn't see it | 19:22 |
| ali1234 | i suspect that the new built gcc has some hardcoded ssse3 instructions in it so it doesn't work | 19:22 |
| CosmoHill | ali1234: this person was builing LFS and didn't check his envrioment first | 19:23 |
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| ali1234 | hardcoded as in they still show up even if you don't ask for them in cflags | 19:23 |
| CosmoHill | hmm | 19:23 |
| CosmoHill | gmp tends to self optimise and thus brake things | 19:23 |
| ali1234 | i am not compiling gmp | 19:24 |
| CosmoHill | gmp -> mpfr -> gcc | 19:24 |
| ali1234 | yeah i'm not compiling either of those things | 19:24 |
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| ali1234 | i am using the ones from fedora 13 | 19:24 |
| CosmoHill | mpc too | 19:24 |
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| tripzero | wazd: not sure if the system-ui bar is themeable | 19:25 |
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| tripzero | just about everything else is though... | 19:25 |
| Phazorx | hrm... can anyone please suggest a reason why connman fails to connect after reboot (and forgets WPA2 credentials)? | 19:25 |
| wazd | tripzero: well, I've just remade leaked nokia ui footage in high res | 19:25 |
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| tripzero | oh | 19:26 |
| * CosmoHill goes to check a theory | 19:26 | |
| tripzero | hmm | 19:26 |
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| tripzero | Phazorx, try #connman? | 19:26 |
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| wazd | lcuk: http://s002.radikal.ru/i199/1008/e3/b1d5a2ce4100.png | 19:30 |
| tripzero | ooo | 19:30 |
| tripzero | pretty | 19:30 |
| sebs__ | okay, i need to get me a 2 gig microsd card ;) | 19:30 |
| sebs__ | mine is 1 gig ;) | 19:31 |
| lcuk | thats pretty wazd :) | 19:31 |
| Phazorx | tripzero: thanks, asking there | 19:31 |
| tripzero | sebs__, got 16 gigs class 10 | 19:31 |
| sebs__ | price? | 19:31 |
| Phazorx | i was assuming it is configuration/meego issue though | 19:31 |
| tripzero | Phazorx, np :) | 19:31 |
| ali1234 | ok i located the problem: http://pastebin.com/Lm8r6atd | 19:31 |
| sebs__ | ill go shopping now | 19:31 |
| ali1234 | gcc doesn't work because no libmpc was installed in the buildroot - but it is trying to compile libmpc | 19:31 |
| tripzero | Phazorx, that is possible. but those guys are very familiar with meego and will be able to help better (at least hopefully) | 19:31 |
| Phazorx | and looking at ali1234's paste - how do i get autoconf to work ? | 19:31 |
| leinir | wazd: i'm with lcuk on that :) Nicely smooth there :) | 19:32 |
| ali1234 | Phazorx: you really want to know? | 19:32 |
| ali1234 | it involves installing OBS in a server... | 19:32 |
| Phazorx | ali1234: is there a simpier way | 19:33 |
| Phazorx | i want to be able to compile things | 19:33 |
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| Phazorx | and there is no auromake/autoconf in meego's repo | 19:33 |
| ali1234 | there might be, i don't know | 19:33 |
| ali1234 | i can't use anything from the repos except source on my computer | 19:33 |
| Phazorx | not good | 19:33 |
| Phazorx | one of reasons i choose meego is so my wife can maintain the netbook w/o much hassle | 19:34 |
| Phazorx | if i have to ocmpile from source - might as well went with gentoo, since i am farm more familiar with it | 19:34 |
| CosmoHill | ali1234: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tuf61OjvoPQ&NR=1 this will make you smile :) | 19:34 |
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| ali1234 | lbt: can you advise on how i should break the circular dependency between mpc and gcc? | 19:46 |
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| * CosmoHill goes to watch a movie | 19:46 | |
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| andyross | Hardware compatibility question: anyone have experience with the "HD" variant (with the 1366x768 screen) of the Dell Mini 10? I'm looking at this for personal use, but don't know the video hardware. Dell lists "Crystal HD" in that slot, which isn't right (it's a codec accelerator, not the GPU) | 20:17 |
| andyross | Ideally it'd do double-duty as a MeeGo box for work, thus the question. | 20:18 |
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| girishr | anyone know about where Q_WS_MAEMO_6 gets defined? | 20:19 |
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| tripzero | girishr, ask in #qt | 20:23 |
| tripzero | cuz I'm not sure | 20:23 |
| tripzero | or maybe thiago knows | 20:23 |
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| girishr | k, let me check. i think it's probably some unreleased code | 20:24 |
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| lcuk | girishr, afaik its defined inside qtmobility project files when used in the maemo6 branches and enables or disables specific generic behaviour | 20:28 |
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| lcuk | from a marginally outdated symbian dev doc: | 20:31 |
| lcuk | • Q_OS_SYMBIAN macro for Symbian | 20:31 |
| lcuk | • Q_WS_WIN or Q_WS_WIN32 macrof for Windows OS | 20:31 |
| lcuk | • Q_WS_MAEMO_5 for Mameo OS 5 | 20:31 |
| lcuk | • Q_WS_MAEMO_6 for coming Maemo OS 6 | 20:31 |
| lcuk | • Q_WS_S60 | 20:31 |
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| lcuk | (google is great for constants and you can see many places around qt code which use this define but few that google sees which declare it | 20:31 |
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| ScottishDuck | Is it beta announce tomorrow? | 20:33 |
| girishr | lcuk: i see that qt-mobility defines that Q_WS_MAEMO_6. | 20:33 |
| ScottishDuck | lol maemo 6 | 20:34 |
| lcuk | girishr, thats what i just told you | 20:34 |
| girishr | lcuk: yeah, i did found out from you :) | 20:34 |
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| girishr | lcuk: that doesn't seem like the right place to add it, does it | 20:34 |
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| lcuk | girishr, :) its there because htey must have needed it there | 20:36 |
| lcuk | when you encounter a problem and the definition scope needs expanding, then discuss with the wider teams? | 20:36 |
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| * lcuk goes back to deeper qtmobility inspection | 20:38 | |
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| sebs__ | hello again | 20:39 |
| lcuk | girishr, which commit/url/file did you find specific declaration on | 20:40 |
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| girishr | lcuk: well, i am actually trying to find out what is the correct define to use for meego in Qt/WebKit. The answer is Q_WS_MAEMO_6. but i was just trying to find out how it gets defined | 20:42 |
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| * sebs__ okay, trying again with a 4gb microsdcard | 20:42 | |
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| lbt | tsg in an hour+10 | 20:48 |
| * Stskeeps ponders coffee to stay awake | 20:48 | |
| * lbt goes to eat chip butties | 20:48 | |
| tripzero | lbt!! | 20:49 |
| lbt | sweet potato chip butties .... mmmm | 20:49 |
| * sebs__ hpoes Stskeeps stays awake because sebs__ wasted his n900 totally | 20:49 | |
| sebs__ | the guy at the shop really gave me a strange look when i asked him to reset the n900 to outofthebox state | 20:49 |
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| CosmoHill | lol | 20:49 |
| sebs__ | yeah | 20:50 |
| ali1234 | sebs__: it can't be done without a computer to reflash | 20:50 |
| sebs__ | i have a computer and i am not afraid to use it | 20:50 |
| sebs__ | ;) | 20:50 |
| ali1234 | i doubt the guy in the shop would though | 20:50 |
| sebs__ | hey nokia was the company holding a presscon and posing around with their new shiny os thingie | 20:51 |
| ali1234 | it was a nokia shop? | 20:51 |
| sebs__ | no | 20:51 |
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| CosmoHill | i went to vodafone to get my mobile internet settings | 20:51 |
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| CosmoHill | they basically told me they never sold the phone so I'd have to figure it out | 20:51 |
| sebs__ | lucky me, its 2.1 gigs and i went for the 4 gig card | 20:52 |
| sebs__ | ;) | 20:52 |
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| ali1234 | should have gone on t-mobile | 20:52 |
| sebs__ | they will tell you the same | 20:52 |
| ali1234 | they send the internet setting on sms for free if you put your sim card in a new phone | 20:52 |
| sebs__ | if NOCLUE == true -> answer(yourfault) | 20:53 |
| CosmoHill | sony are nice, they send you an sms with the settings | 20:53 |
| sebs__ | in this case it is my fault ;) | 20:53 |
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| sebs__ | btw: flasher-3.5 .deb packages only in 32bit ? | 20:55 |
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| sebs__ | orlly? ;) anyone already buildt 64bit ones? | 20:55 |
| ali1234 | what would be the point? | 20:56 |
| CosmoHill | cos he can | 20:56 |
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| ali1234 | vgrade: why does your prjconf refer to rpm-build when it isn't in any meego repository? | 20:57 |
| ali1234 | Required: binutils gcc glibc rpm-build libtool | 20:58 |
| ali1234 | if i compile against fedora then it supplies rpm-build | 20:58 |
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| ali1234 | but opensuse doesn't have it | 20:59 |
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| sebs__ | ali1234: my 64bit debian package manager does not like 32 bit packages | 20:59 |
| ali1234 | it looks to me like meego uses build instead of rpm-build anyway | 20:59 |
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| ali1234 | sebs__: dpkg --force-architecture | 21:00 |
| ali1234 | or just unpack it | 21:00 |
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| ali1234 | ar -x foo.deb | 21:00 |
| sebs__ | ah ok | 21:00 |
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| sebs__ | ty | 21:00 |
| ali1234 | the flasher should be static compiled | 21:00 |
| ali1234 | so it will work fine even you don't have 32bit libs | 21:00 |
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| sebs__ | hmmm | 21:03 |
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| sebs__ | the device dies with a kernel panic | 21:04 |
| sebs__ | let get back to rtfm ;) | 21:04 |
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| sebs__ | hmm | 21:08 |
| Stskeeps | put your back cover on | 21:08 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 21:08 |
| sebs__ | wooot? | 21:08 |
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| sebs__ | may my i used the -f instead of the -l param to flasher | 21:09 |
| sebs__ | unable to mount root fs is the error | 21:10 |
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| vgrade | ali1234, the prjconf I'm using was copied from the Meego-:1.0:Core on the maemo OBS, and edited to remove atom and ssse3 flags | 21:10 |
| sebs__ | unknown-block(179,1) | 21:10 |
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| ali1234 | vgrade: so where does it get rpm-build from? | 21:11 |
| vgrade | ali1234, this is based on the prjconf on git | 21:11 |
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| ali1234 | why is that prjconf using rpm-build? | 21:11 |
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| vgrade | let me fire up the VM | 21:12 |
| sebs__ | the n900 is dead | 21:13 |
| sebs__ | lol | 21:13 |
| sebs__ | sebs__ 1: n900 0 | 21:13 |
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| sebs__ | this worries me | 21:14 |
| vgrade | I have line in the gcc build log | 21:14 |
| sebs__ | pew | 21:15 |
| Stskeeps | sebs__: dead how? | 21:15 |
| Stskeeps | sebs__: no, use -l | 21:15 |
| ali1234 | which package in meego provide rpm-build? | 21:15 |
| sebs__ | Stskeeps: didnt power on but still accepts kernels via the battery in and out thingie in the docs | 21:16 |
| sebs__ | but: l does not work too | 21:16 |
| vgrade | ali1234, installing rpm-build-4.8.0-4.2 | 21:16 |
| Stskeeps | sebs__: basically once you've -f'ed, you need to flash back the old maemo kernel.. | 21:17 |
| sebs__ | so i need the old kernel to make the new one work? | 21:17 |
| ali1234 | vgrade: which source package provides it? | 21:17 |
| sebs__ | i guess i fucked up by -f ing a lot of kernels which did not work? | 21:18 |
| Stskeeps | sebs__: grab a fiasco image from tablets-dev.nokia.com and reflash | 21:18 |
| sebs__ | fiasco image, oh how that fits ;) | 21:18 |
| sebs__ | Stskeeps: Thank you ;) | 21:19 |
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| vgrade | ali1234, I guess this one, http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/releases/1.0/core/repos/source/rpm-4.8.0-4.1.src.rpm | 21:22 |
| ali1234 | nope | 21:23 |
| sebs__ | member:Stskeeps: There is a note on this page telling me to flash the FIASCO one before flashing the ones listed, bit no release named fiasco | 21:23 |
| ali1234 | guess again :) | 21:23 |
| Stskeeps | sebs__: take the one without MMC in it | 21:23 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 21:23 |
| sebs__ | Stskeeps: sorry i am extradumb 2day, but i looked up 0size replys on a webserver all day long | 21:24 |
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| Stskeeps | sebs__: ah, i'm a bit ill so we're even | 21:24 |
| auke | 21:24 | |
| auke | ^ zero sized reply :) | 21:25 |
| vgrade | ali, binary is here, http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/releases/1.0/core/repos/ia32/packages/i586/rpm-build-4.8.0-4.2.i586.rpm | 21:25 |
| vgrade | but don't see the source atm | 21:25 |
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| vgrade | can't see the source | 21:28 |
| ali1234 | it does come from rpm | 21:28 |
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| ali1234 | OBS just can't figure it out because rpm is "unresolvable" due to another problem | 21:29 |
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| auke | . | 21:29 |
| ali1234 | rpm-libs rpm-build rpm-devel all come from rpm source rpm | 21:29 |
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| DawnFoster | TSG starts in 30 minutes for those planning to attend. Agenda / details: http://wiki.meego.com/Technical_Steering_Group_meetings | 21:32 |
| CosmoHill | ali1234: you know you can have one spec file make multiple RPMs right? | 21:32 |
| CosmoHill | DawnFoster: thanks | 21:32 |
| ali1234 | yes | 21:32 |
| ali1234 | CosmoHill: i just didn't understand the rules for how they get named | 21:33 |
| CosmoHill | yeah i never worked that out either | 21:33 |
| CosmoHill | so i never split them | 21:33 |
| ali1234 | therefore, rpm.spec does not contain the word "rpm-build" | 21:33 |
| ali1234 | it says "%package build" instead | 21:33 |
| ali1234 | which i had mistook for a generic build directive | 21:33 |
| CosmoHill | that makes sense | 21:33 |
| ali1234 | it doesn't make much sense to me | 21:34 |
| ali1234 | but i am used to .deb | 21:34 |
| ali1234 | i'm still no better off though | 21:35 |
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| ali1234 | gcc links against libmpc but no projconf will install libmpc into the build root | 21:35 |
| ali1234 | so nothing will ever compile because gcc is missing libraries | 21:36 |
| Stskeeps | you probably need to start doing some prjconf magic | 21:36 |
| Stskeeps | sec | 21:36 |
| ali1234 | Stskeeps: i don't even understand how it can work for anyone else | 21:36 |
| Stskeeps | ali1234: http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Build_Service_prjconf | 21:36 |
| ali1234 | i need to put a line like "Require: mpc" into my prjconf | 21:37 |
| Stskeeps | you probably need Keep: and such | 21:37 |
| ali1234 | but i do not understand why nobody else had to do this | 21:37 |
| Stskeeps | ali1234: because you're doing something alternative | 21:37 |
| Stskeeps | trying to rebuild meego for x86 from scratch | 21:37 |
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| ali1234 | the gcc requirement on mpc is in the spec file | 21:37 |
| ali1234 | nobody can compile meego gcc with mpc | 21:37 |
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| ali1234 | *without | 21:38 |
| CosmoHill | ali1234: iirc gcc requires mpc from 4.5.x | 21:38 |
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| CosmoHill | not to sure tho as I've not done a dev build of lfs | 21:38 |
| vgrade | I suppose thats why I can build gcc using Meego:1.0:Core | 21:39 |
| ali1234 | so mpc problem is just a problem for the latest gcc which nobody is using outside the meego OBS | 21:39 |
| ali1234 | and the problem has been fixed inside the meego OBS | 21:39 |
| ali1234 | but nobody can see the solution because it is private | 21:39 |
| ali1234 | ? | 21:39 |
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| sebs__ | uh looks like the slasher-3.5 + FIASCO is doing way more output then the meego image | 21:40 |
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| sebs__ | Flashing cmt-mcusw... Sending request 0x50 failed: Operation timed out | 21:41 |
| sebs__ | and leaving me with a error message | 21:41 |
| sebs__ | RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.19-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin | 21:42 |
| sebs__ | this image | 21:42 |
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| vgrade | ali1234, I will try a gcc build against Meego:current | 21:43 |
| Stskeeps | sebs__: that's usually not a good sign - you may need to upgrade on a stepping stone basis then | 21:43 |
| ali1234 | meego 1.0: gcc-4.4.2-12.8.src.rpm | 21:43 |
| Stskeeps | sebs__: i have to go - go look at maemo.org for tutorials | 21:43 |
| sebs__ | kk | 21:43 |
| ali1234 | meego 1.0.1: gcc-4.4.2-12.8.src.rpm | 21:43 |
| vgrade | ali1234 make take sometime as I need to populate my cache | 21:43 |
| ali1234 | trunk: gcc-4.5.0-6.3.src.rpm | 21:44 |
| ali1234 | so yeah, this could just be a 4.5 problem | 21:44 |
| ali1234 | i will go back to 1.0.1 i think, no i fixed the patch apllication thing | 21:44 |
| CosmoHill | does meego have traceroute? | 21:44 |
| auke | tracepath | 21:45 |
| CosmoHill | okay cool | 21:46 |
| CosmoHill | i was gonna say, I have a patch for traceroute for make 3.82 | 21:46 |
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| sebs__ | okay, looks like i got a devive w.o. a initfs | 21:51 |
| Stskeeps | yes, n900 doesn't have one | 21:52 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 21:52 |
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| vgrade | ali1234, http://meego.gitorious.org/~stskeeps/meego-developer-tools/stskeepss-obs-project-config | 21:55 |
| Stskeeps | vgrade: think he can't be using a full prjconf yet | 21:56 |
| Stskeeps | vgrade: as he's taking the approach of rebasing initially on top of fedora 12 | 21:56 |
| ali1234 | i've tried with and without | 21:56 |
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| ali1234 | either way does nto solve the issues i have | 21:56 |
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| Stskeeps | ali1234: even though you have non-ssse3 device, i'd consider simply importing the binaries of meego, then sources into packages with a changed prjconf.. | 21:57 |
| ali1234 | i don't know how to import binaries into OBS | 21:57 |
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| ali1234 | so i can only use the ones that i get from linking to build.opensuse.org | 21:57 |
| ali1234 | (which annoyingly means my OBS dies whenever the remote one goes down) | 21:59 |
| ali1234 | that's something else i don't know how to fix | 21:59 |
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| Stskeeps | ali1234: http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Build_Service_adding_build_targets | 22:01 |
| DawnFoster | TSG has started in meego-meeting (fyi) | 22:01 |
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| ali1234 | Stskeeps: thanks, i will try it | 22:02 |
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| lcuk | hehe maclaver :D happy to see you getting involved in the #maemotop5 listing on twitter | 22:05 |
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| lbt | not the "same core software stack" if the patches aren't upstream? | 22:09 |
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| lcuk | sigh | 22:12 |
| lcuk | no add on level packs | 22:12 |
| lcuk | no plugins for apps | 22:12 |
| lcuk | no new libraries | 22:12 |
| lcuk | errr no apps using new libraries | 22:12 |
| GAN900 | Hello, Android? | 22:12 |
| lcuk | GAN900, ? android is just as anal? | 22:13 |
| Stskeeps | go read the whole meeting log first | 22:13 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 22:13 |
| GAN900 | Stskeeps, to what end? | 22:13 |
| DawnFoster | lcuk: that's not true | 22:13 |
| DawnFoster | mark will clarify in meego-meeting | 22:13 |
| lcuk | DawnFoster, cannot upload a package which depends on something not in core: plugins for an app would depend on the app existing | 22:14 |
| lcuk | game addons same situation etc | 22:14 |
| Stskeeps | GAN900: in terms of that i think this compliance approach is sane | 22:14 |
| DawnFoster | compliance for a shipping meego distribution is different from installing applications on MeeGo - let's let mark calrify | 22:15 |
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| lbt | it's good - it's source based compliance | 22:15 |
| DawnFoster | lcuk: can you post a follow-up question after he finishes answering this one | 22:15 |
| lcuk | if user cannot install new game level packs from app store... | 22:15 |
| lbt | I'm a bit dubious that you can be compliant with a "patched" version of meego... | 22:15 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: well, it should be possible to provide ABI/API matching | 22:16 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: Compliance requires the use of the MeeGo source packages for required components, and that any applied patches (e.g. to fix bugs found in the field) must not effect API, ABI, or defined functionality of interfaces. | 22:16 |
| Stskeeps | (from text0 | 22:16 |
| Stskeeps | which is pretty sane | 22:16 |
| GAN900 | lbt, we wouldn't want to keep carriers from getting every cent they can get out of their customers, would we? | 22:17 |
| lbt | god no... they need to be able to pay me ! | 22:17 |
| Stskeeps | i think a after-discussion on compliance on mailing list should be good | 22:17 |
| CosmoHill | I wonder why I go to meetings, I just become confused >.< | 22:17 |
| GAN900 | CosmoHill, you go to hear about holding discussions on the lists. | 22:18 |
| lbt | lcuk: MeeGo Device compliance != Application compliant with MeeGo ? | 22:18 |
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| CosmoHill | lbt: like windows 7 will run on this computer but your fav game won't run on windows 7 | 22:19 |
| CosmoHill | ? | 22:19 |
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| lbt | no... a meego device comes with meego installed | 22:19 |
| lbt | and a meego app will run on it | 22:19 |
| lbt | (well, if they build it for your device, it will build+run_ | 22:20 |
| lbt | ) | 22:20 |
| ali1234 | i missed start of meeting, is there a log? i missed what they said that set everyone off :) | 22:20 |
| lbt | eg a ppc meego device | 22:20 |
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| CosmoHill | ali1234: they said you where a poopoo head for not being at the start | 22:20 |
| Stskeeps | ali1234: http://trac.tspre.org/meetbot/meego-meeting/2010/meego-meeting.2010-08-18-18.58.log.txt | 22:21 |
| ali1234 | CosmoHill: :( | 22:21 |
| CosmoHill | http://trac.tspre.org/meetbot/meego-meeting/2010/meego-meeting.2010-08-18-18.58.log.txt | 22:21 |
| CosmoHill | oh damn you Stskeeps | 22:21 |
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| Stskeeps | the elephant in the room is the harmattan approach still though, which is clearly not rpm.. | 22:22 |
| sebs__ | grml ... completely switching to my linux | 22:22 |
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| sebs__ | screw osx | 22:22 |
| CosmoHill | sup? | 22:23 |
| thiago_home | for marketing people, harmattan is MeeGo | 22:23 |
| thiago_home | on the technical side, it isn't | 22:23 |
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| Stskeeps | thiago_home: yeah, but compliance doesn't mention how to deal with it :P | 22:23 |
| vgrade | lbt :) | 22:24 |
| lbt | is that right? | 22:24 |
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| GAN900 | thiago_home, no, no it's not. | 22:24 |
| GAN900 | thiago_home, what I keep hearing from marketing people is that it's not finalized yet, but wont be called MeeGo. | 22:25 |
| thiago_home | I can't speak for the Marketing people | 22:25 |
| lbt | thiago_home: ? | 22:25 |
| GAN900 | I can tell you what I hear from the top marketing people, and that's that they're not calling Harmattan MeeGo. | 22:25 |
| VDVsx | GAN900, so will be called what ? meeko,meeto,... :D | 22:25 |
| lbt | an ssse3 app won't run on an AMD running MeeGo 1.1 | 22:25 |
| Stskeeps | neego | 22:26 |
| GAN900 | VDVsx, dunno that. | 22:26 |
| thiago_home | lbt: no, but that's different | 22:26 |
| frals | meegattan! | 22:26 |
| VDVsx | ahhaha | 22:26 |
| thiago_home | lbt: you can't run an SSSE3 app on a device without SSSE3 | 22:26 |
| lbt | thiago_home: that was my question | 22:26 |
| Stskeeps | megatan ;) | 22:26 |
| thiago_home | lbt: the same way that you can't run an ARM app on x86 | 22:26 |
| GAN900 | YoureScrewedIfYouBuyThisToo | 22:26 |
| thiago_home | you must match the processor | 22:26 |
| lbt | the label needs to say MeeGo 1.1 (Atom) | 22:26 |
| frals | from now on i shall refer to harmattan as meegattan | 22:26 |
| arjan | same is true for armv7 vs armv5 | 22:26 |
| arjan | v7 has more instructions | 22:26 |
| VDVsx | frals, +1 | 22:27 |
| frals | GAN900: whats the top marketing people saying about that? | 22:27 |
| lbt | yes... that's what I said | 22:27 |
| arjan | v7 apps don't run on a v5 cpu | 22:27 |
| arjan | likewise with neon | 22:27 |
| CosmoHill | what happened to v6? | 22:27 |
| thiago_home | now, if you have an SSSE3-capable device running generic x86 MeeGo, you can install SSSE3-apps | 22:27 |
| arjan | with/without is a hueg delta | 22:27 |
| arjan | v6 is also used but by fewer people | 22:27 |
| thiago_home | is the v5 build using hardfp? | 22:27 |
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| andyross | The ARM11 core is ARMv6 and is/was reasonably popular. But no one targets the architecture. | 22:28 |
| thiago_home | the FP ABI is, well, ABI-changing option | 22:28 |
| * thiago_home needs to add the ARMv7 memory-ordering instructions to the Qt atomics | 22:28 | |
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| CosmoHill | is there an IRC client for a Nokia 6220c? | 22:30 |
| ali1234 | remember on maemo, how if app X depends on library Y, people who installed app X don't get updates to library Y? mandating no external deps would solve that problem... albeit in the worst way possible: by forcing the developer of app X to static link library Y into his package... | 22:30 |
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| thiago_home | ali1234: depends if you're using repos or an app store | 22:31 |
| thiago_home | app stores often don't have repos: you download just the .rpm | 22:31 |
| ali1234 | oh, so we're still going to have to deal with that issue anyway? | 22:32 |
| thiago_home | that's why the compliance is important | 22:32 |
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| thiago_home | but for repos, everything should be handled the Linux way | 22:32 |
| * sebs__ hits the keyboard on the n900 | 22:32 | |
| ali1234 | the linux way or the maemo way? | 22:32 |
| * sebs__ considers a hour quakelive | 22:32 | |
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| thiago_home | maemo repos are the linux way | 22:33 |
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| thiago_home | the Ovi Store isn't | 22:33 |
| ali1234 | maemo repos are not the linux way, sorry | 22:33 |
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| ali1234 | for the reason i explained above ^ | 22:34 |
| thiago_home | APT works just fine | 22:34 |
| Stskeeps | suse meego.. is it meego based and hence compliant? | 22:34 |
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| thiago_home | Stskeeps: that's the question I have waiting to ask | 22:34 |
| ali1234 | apt works fine, the maemo update utility does not | 22:34 |
| lbt | who tests it? | 22:34 |
| Stskeeps | because otherwise it waters out the compliance program horribly :) | 22:34 |
| thiago_home | ali1234: you mean the Application Manager? | 22:34 |
| ali1234 | thiago_home: yes | 22:34 |
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| thiago_home | ali1234: that's a front-end for APT | 22:35 |
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| ali1234 | thiago_home: a broken one, yes | 22:35 |
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| thiago_home | so it can trigger the installation of something without its dependencies? | 22:35 |
| ali1234 | thiago_home: broken because maemo repo policy is broken by design | 22:35 |
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| ali1234 | thiago_home: do i really have to explain the problem again? | 22:35 |
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| Stskeeps | 'Do not refer to a product or service as being certified under any of the Foundation’s marks unless your company has successfully undergone the requisite compliance testing suites and has explicit authorization to use such terms by the Foundation.' | 22:36 |
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| thiago_home | ali1234: repo policy is different | 22:36 |
| thiago_home | ali1234: but it works the way that APT is supposed to work | 22:37 |
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| ali1234 | by "it" do you mean maemo or meego? | 22:38 |
| thiago_home | maemo | 22:38 |
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| thiago_home | unless that App Manager manages to do something that the command-line utility can't do, it's the linux way | 22:38 |
| ali1234 | so apt is supposed to not offer updates to any packages except those that were explicitly selected? | 22:38 |
| thiago_home | the only difference is that there's a "meta-package" that depends on specific versions of some packages | 22:38 |
| lbt | seems safest to say "compliance not finalised ... please wait" | 22:38 |
| thiago_home | you can't upgrade one without uninstalling this meta package | 22:38 |
| ali1234 | if i do apt-get upgrade on maemo, it has a different result to running "update" through the app manager | 22:39 |
| thiago_home | or triggering an upgrade of the metapackage and all that it depends on | 22:39 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: or 'compliance is for meego 1.0' | 22:39 |
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| ali1234 | thiago_home: i'm talking *only* about packages outside the maemo core | 22:39 |
| lbt | yes, ... or "in principle, pending compliance verification when finalised" | 22:39 |
| thiago_home | ok, for those it should work fine | 22:40 |
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| thiago_home | installing dependencies as needed | 22:40 |
| ali1234 | thiago_home: for example say i package libogre for maemo, and then 10 people port different games to maemo, then i find a security bug in libogre so i release an update for it. none of the people who downloaded the games that use it will get my fixed package | 22:40 |
| lbt | CosmoHill: I'm so glad you think that :) | 22:40 |
| ali1234 | unless they go in console and run "apt-get upgrade" | 22:40 |
| CosmoHill | yay | 22:40 |
| ali1234 | then they will get the updates | 22:41 |
| ali1234 | the only way to force the app manager to show the updates is by bumping the version on all 10 of the games that use it | 22:41 |
| Stskeeps | i personally feel TSG isn't being handed enough info on the issue - is SuSE MeeGo based on MeeGo core+netbook at all? :P | 22:41 |
| lbt | CosmoHill: out of interest what experience have you had with international trademark law? | 22:41 |
| CosmoHill | /o\ that much | 22:42 |
| lbt | uh huh ;) | 22:42 |
| lcuk | lol | 22:42 |
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| CosmoHill | there's still more to fine out | 22:43 |
| lcuk | hey, he asked a valid question though and sounded all grown up :D | 22:43 |
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| CosmoHill | i wonder if it would cause compliant issues | 22:43 |
| CosmoHill | IE a program works on SuSe MeeGo but not Meego | 22:43 |
| lbt | they shouldn't be asking for approval for a specific case IMHO. They should ask how to assess approval for a pending request. | 22:44 |
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| lcuk | ++ | 22:44 |
| CosmoHill | I think I'm gonna start calling it Smeego | 22:45 |
| lbt | valhalla answered. No. Not until it's understandable. Which isn't going to happen over irc. | 22:45 |
| lcuk | i actually saw some of the Meego tv show the other day | 22:45 |
| lcuk | my brain melted a little | 22:45 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: i would not have minded one wiki page about the issue | 22:45 |
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| Stskeeps | excellent, the TSG works | 22:47 |
| CosmoHill | if it's urgent and meego has been out for 2 months, shouldn't they of made it sooner? | 22:48 |
| Stskeeps | CosmoHill: another good point.. | 22:49 |
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| thiago_home | "oh, crap, we need to ask for permission again?" | 22:49 |
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| CosmoHill | Meego is a new (legal) entity created to replace Moblin. so if you have a Moblin based product it would make sense to find out where you start with the Moblin replacement | 22:50 |
| thiago_home | yeah, but that assumes that someone remembered to ask | 22:51 |
| thiago_home | things fall through the cracks | 22:51 |
| lcuk | ok, can someone please check if CosmoHill has been hacked :D he is making the most sensible postings I think I have heard anyone make around here :P | 22:51 |
| thiago_home | they might have been told also "please wait, we'll have a compliance suite in a couple of weeks" for months | 22:51 |
| CosmoHill | SuSe Moblin for April, SuSe Moblin for October...oh crap | 22:52 |
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| CosmoHill | lcuk: :D | 22:52 |
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| CosmoHill | lbt: behold the power of the cookie, she's already here :) | 22:54 |
| mneptok | Smeego neeeedssss the precioussssssss. Gooooood Smeego. | 22:54 |
| CosmoHill | excerlent, it's already catching on | 22:54 |
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| * mneptok bites off CosmoHill's ring finger. | 22:55 | |
| CosmoHill | ha! I'm single! | 22:55 |
| CosmoHill | wait...dammit! I'm single :( | 22:55 |
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| Chicktopus | Kurosmiornica kurwa! | 22:57 |
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| lcuk | :D and CosmoHill returns! | 22:57 |
| CosmoHill | I concur | 22:57 |
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| jeremiah | So the IVI release does not support ARM yet. | 22:59 |
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| lbt | mlfoster: congrats on the release :) | 23:00 |
| jeremiah | Do we have an official idea of when the official MeeGo IVI will support ARM? | 23:00 |
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| * jeremiah wearing his GENIVI hat. | 23:00 | |
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| Stskeeps | http://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=5310 is a bug related to this issue | 23:00 |
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| jeremiah | Stskeeps: Yeah, that was mentioned in one of our meetings. | 23:00 |
| lbt | mlfoster, jeremiah.... IVI seems kinda shy and retiring .... where are your meetings? | 23:01 |
| mlfoster | lbt: well, we don't have any public meetings at the moment | 23:01 |
| jeremiah | They are coming | 23:02 |
| GAN900 | jeremiah, you're clearly not an OEM, so why do you care if it supports ARM? :P | 23:02 |
| jeremiah | Umm, maybe because that is all that automotive software runs on? | 23:02 |
| GAN900 | jeremiah, clearly they'll be using Atoms. | 23:02 |
| jeremiah | Clearly. :) | 23:02 |
| GAN900 | I mean, there's nothing else worth looking at, right? :P | 23:02 |
| jeremiah | Surely not. :) | 23:03 |
| lbt | mlfoster: fair enough. Are you moving in that direction? I know it's kinda hard for us in Nokia too. | 23:03 |
| GAN900 | OK, so long as we're all clear. | 23:03 |
| vgrade | mlfoster, no public meetings! | 23:03 |
| jeremiah | lbt: They are moving along nicely. | 23:03 |
| jeremiah | There will be public meetings I am sure. | 23:03 |
| GAN900 | Open isn't actually open. It wouldn't be fun if we didn't have to fight tooth and nail every step of the way. | 23:04 |
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| mlfoster | we don't even have a working group yet. :-( | 23:04 |
| jeremiah | Well, you're all gonna love IVI then! | 23:04 |
| jeremiah | Your teeth and nails will be falling out. | 23:04 |
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| Stskeeps | mskarpne: thanks for what looks like a sane compliance approach | 23:05 |
| sebs__ | so this is really sick | 23:05 |
| lbt | mlfoster: it's an area of personal interest ... so I'm watching out for your arrival. | 23:05 |
| jeremiah | Yeah, if you guys can pull this off, it will be pretty amazing | 23:05 |
| GAN900 | Not mine, these days. ;) | 23:05 |
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| jeremiah | GAN900: Have you joined the dark side? | 23:05 |
| sebs__ | the re-flashing of memo didnt work because the usb port seems to break easily | 23:05 |
| mskarpne | Stskeeps: thanks for the feedback | 23:05 |
| lbt | mskarpne: yes... looks good | 23:06 |
| CosmoHill | mskarpne: kudos | 23:06 |
| sebs__ | the n900 is maybe a pre production sample | 23:06 |
| mskarpne | we'll try to get a lot more details out soon so we can get feedback on the details | 23:06 |
| mlfoster | lbt: I'm just baby-sitting for now. :-) Joel Clark is the main man | 23:06 |
| jeremiah | lbt: Can I get an rsync ho;alsk | 23:06 |
| mskarpne | lbt, CosmoHill: thanks | 23:06 |
| jeremiah | Oy | 23:06 |
| lbt | mskarpne: I'm working on the "garage" side so that's why I was interested in those points | 23:06 |
| mskarpne | lbt: ah, makes sense | 23:06 |
| lbt | we need to think of how to setup builds to provide OSS apps to different platforms | 23:07 |
| jeremiah | lbt: How do I get an rsync hook into MeeGo OBS if I want to host my own OBS instance? | 23:07 |
| lbt | we need an x86 to get the fans in | 23:07 |
| jeremiah | lbt: Who do I speak to | 23:07 |
| lbt | anas | 23:07 |
| jeremiah | ah | 23:07 |
| mskarpne | lbt: yes - you mean figuring out how to deliver the right binary to a given platform? | 23:07 |
| jeremiah | thanks | 23:07 |
| Stskeeps | jeremiah: or just rsync off kernel.org like the rest of people.. | 23:07 |
| lbt | mskarpne: yes | 23:07 |
| lbt | and how to label things and present multiple targets | 23:07 |
| jeremiah | Stskeeps: But I may need to provide options to the decision makers | 23:07 |
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| GAN900 | jeremiah, probably going to get an iPhone if there's nothing free or discounted. | 23:08 |
| jeremiah | That is dark indeed. | 23:08 |
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| jeremiah | ALthough they say the iPhone 4 is pretty cool. | 23:08 |
| Stskeeps | jeremiah: the problem is two-fold.. there's a bug in OBS so you can't easily do 'OBS linking' right now | 23:08 |
| GAN900 | Watching the same mistakes replayed over and over and generally wasting the last 5 years of your hobby time isn't something I'd like to continue. | 23:08 |
| Stskeeps | jeremiah: so people are manually importing the released binary packages | 23:08 |
| lbt | jeremiah: yes... periodic sync (weekly) is pretty sane | 23:08 |
| lbt | we do that internally at nokia | 23:09 |
| lbt | and on the community OBS too | 23:09 |
| jeremiah | lbt: Ah, okay. | 23:09 |
| lbt | mskarpne: so the compliance... we can make a community build of generic x86 and be safe calling it MeeGo | 23:09 |
| jeremiah | Stskeeps: When you say manually, you mean using curl or something? | 23:09 |
| Stskeeps | jeremiah: rsync | 23:10 |
| lbt | given we'll likely do nothing other than tweak the build flags | 23:10 |
| lbt | mskarpne: the objective there is to reach the wider linux base and minimise barriers to participation and trial | 23:10 |
| jeremiah | So the only rsync option right nobw is up at Kernel.org? | 23:10 |
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| lbt | jeremiah: once you've seen the meego.com OBS bwidth... you'll be right up there.... | 23:11 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, you will want to take kernel.org | 23:11 |
| jeremiah | okay, cool. | 23:11 |
| jeremiah | I'll try to stress that. | 23:11 |
| lcuk | GAN900, "free or discounted" you have a free android don't you? | 23:12 |
| lbt | mlfoster: OK ... good to see some IVI people around... although jeremiah does tend to drown you all out ;) | 23:12 |
| * lbt ducks and.... | 23:12 | |
| jeremiah | I'm just afraid of feedback saying; "that is not official, that is not compliant, etc." | 23:12 |
| GAN900 | lcuk, I can't stand Android and I don't agree with them politically or ethically. | 23:12 |
| Stskeeps | jeremiah: nah, it's a exact mirror | 23:12 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 23:12 |
| ali1234 | jeremiah: why fear it? | 23:12 |
| * lcuk thought mlfoster and jeremiah were related at first o_O | 23:12 | |
| mdp | jeremiah, hi, that was me that mentioned 5310 on the meeting | 23:12 |
| * jeremiah presents lbt with a bouquet of flowers for putting up with all my crap. =) | 23:12 | |
| mlfoster | jeremiah: so, you are an IVI guy? That's wonderful. There don't seem to be too many around. | 23:12 |
| mdp | mlfoster, there's more arriving every day here :) | 23:13 |
| lbt | jeremiah: np... is the OBS stuff going OK? | 23:13 |
| lcuk | GAN900, *nod* | 23:13 |
| mlfoster | mdp: and that bug is assigned to me! :-( | 23:13 |
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| jeremiah | mlfoster: I met another one at Linuxcon :) | 23:13 |
| CosmoHill | my car doesn't even have a CD player >.< | 23:13 |
| mdp | mlfoster, sorry! | 23:13 |
| tcounihan_ | mkfoster: another here to | 23:13 |
| jeremiah | I think he's gonna be great. :) | 23:13 |
| GAN900 | lcuk, at least Apple is upfront about what it is and isn't. | 23:13 |
| Stskeeps | mlfoster: if you want some practical guidance on making it happen, feel free to prod me | 23:13 |
| lcuk | GAN900, did you see that mohammadag has started hacking on hildon-* stuff | 23:13 |
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| Stskeeps | mlfoster: (from meego n900 team here) | 23:13 |
| lbt | wow... IVI woodworm.... | 23:13 |
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| jeremiah | Yeah, tcounihan_ knows more about this IVI stuff than I do | 23:13 |
| mdp | jeremiah, somehow I missed you at linuxcon | 23:13 |
| tcounihan_ | lbt: tin rust actually | 23:14 |
| jeremiah | Ask him anything! :) | 23:14 |
| lbt | ah... good point ;) | 23:14 |
| jeremiah | mdp: Yeah, sorry. I was mostly holed up in webex meetings. | 23:14 |
| * lbt has been running linux in his car since ~2000 | 23:14 | |
| jeremiah | Missed a lot of Linuxcon | 23:14 |
| mdp | jeremiah, lol...I ended up doing the same thing | 23:14 |
| jeremiah | :) | 23:14 |
| lbt | although I doubt my empegs will ever be MeeGo compliant ;) | 23:14 |
| lbt | jeremiah: I've done a load more docs on Xen/OBS btw... | 23:14 |
| mlfoster | I can feel the love already. ;-) | 23:15 |
| jeremiah | lbt: You are the single best person in the entire universe | 23:15 |
| jeremiah | Because I need those docs. :) | 23:15 |
| jeremiah | Although I got a good go round with Stskeeps :) | 23:15 |
| lbt | http://wiki.meego.com/Build_Infrastructure/Community_Builder/Installation | 23:15 |
| jeremiah | Who is also the best preson in the universe | 23:15 |
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| lbt | cut'n'paste to get a full OBS install | 23:15 |
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| Phazorx | ever since having shoutcast server at home with wap interface i can controll from my phone my dream was to be able to tune-in/select what to play while being in the car | 23:15 |
| * jeremiah plays a tango or fox trot for lbt | 23:15 | |
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| lbt | tango... Argentine please | 23:16 |
| Phazorx | but grps/evdo providers are not flat rate friendly where i been :( | 23:16 |
| jeremiah | Yes sir! | 23:16 |
| ali1234 | lbt: do i need to use XEN? because i'm not | 23:16 |
| jeremiah | Yeah, I think you have to right lbt? | 23:17 |
| jeremiah | Something about nesting virtual instances | 23:17 |
| lbt | ali1234: only for shared OBSes | 23:17 |
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| jeremiah | "Shared OBSes" What is that? | 23:17 |
| ali1234 | so it won't affect the actual result of builds? | 23:17 |
| lbt | you can use chroot for one with trusted users... but not a good idea for production | 23:17 |
| lbt | (and kvm is an alternative) | 23:17 |
| lbt | ali1234: no | 23:17 |
| ali1234 | i'm using chroot i guess | 23:17 |
| lbt | jeremiah: one that is on the internet | 23:18 |
| jeremiah | Ah, I see, shared in this instance means lots of users | 23:18 |
| lbt | yes | 23:18 |
| jeremiah | cool, thanks | 23:18 |
| * sebs__ learned 2day: first try the downgrade before applying the upgrade ;) | 23:19 | |
| lbt | oh... and watch out for osc on python2.6 ... bugs | 23:19 |
| jeremiah | heh, I don't think python2.6 will be in Squeeze so I don't have to worry. | 23:19 |
| ali1234 | i'm using the OBS appliance.. it has python 2.6 :( | 23:19 |
| jeremiah | How many LOC is mic? | 23:19 |
| jeremiah | ah. | 23:20 |
| lbt | really jeremiah? I thought it was | 23:20 |
| jeremiah | I think it will remain in unstable, but now I have to check | 23:20 |
| ali1234 | i don't use osc much though | 23:20 |
| jeremiah | (Squeeze is frozen) | 23:20 |
| lbt | ali1234: you should | 23:20 |
| ali1234 | i only use it for importsrcpkg actually | 23:20 |
| ali1234 | everything else i do through the webif | 23:20 |
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| jeremiah | So no chance on getting the IVI MeeGo image to build in a virtual machine? | 23:24 |
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| Stskeeps | image can build fine in a vm | 23:25 |
| Stskeeps | i mean, we build images fine in a fedora vm.. | 23:25 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 23:25 |
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| jeremiah | Oh! \0/ | 23:25 |
| Stskeeps | building OBS securely in a vm is a different matter | 23:25 |
| jeremiah | heh | 23:27 |
| jeremiah | I won't even try | 23:27 |
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| jeremiah | I think I am going to have to use OpenSuSE for the OBS | 23:27 |
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| jeremiah | Just because I think it will be easier | 23:27 |
| Stskeeps | wise choice | 23:27 |
| jeremiah | :) | 23:27 |
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| mdp | jeremiah, I've gone that route for my local experimental OBS | 23:28 |
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| mdp | going smoothly so far, just need to limit the local interrupts | 23:29 |
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| ali1234 | if you just want a OBS you can play around on, by far the easiest way: http://wiki.meego.com/User:Ali1234 | 23:29 |
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| MaikelZ | hello | 23:33 |
| MaikelZ | i have a question, is there any way to run meego on a non ssse3 cpu, atm? | 23:34 |
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| CosmoHill | atm? no | 23:35 |
| jeremiah | mdp: Aha, good to know | 23:35 |
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| jeremiah | ali1234: Looks great, but I might need a more production-ready builder. | 23:36 |
| auke | MaikelZ: sure, there's an ARM port | 23:36 |
| auke | ;) | 23:37 |
| tripzero | haha | 23:37 |
| tripzero | auke, i was just about to say that | 23:37 |
| tripzero | :P | 23:37 |
| ali1234 | MaikelZ: http://wiki.meego.com/Devices/nonSSSE3 | 23:37 |
| MaikelZ | thanks | 23:37 |
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| ali1234 | when it's possibly, that page will tell you how, but for now it isn't possible | 23:38 |
| tripzero | ali1234, are you working/hacking on the public obs as well? | 23:39 |
| ali1234 | no | 23:39 |
| ali1234 | the public OBS is not public | 23:39 |
| ali1234 | unless you mean the opensuse one | 23:39 |
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| ali1234 | i have an account there but i don't think it's really meant for uploading entire distros | 23:40 |
| tripzero | ali1234, i mean the build.obs.maemo.org one | 23:41 |
| tripzero | yeah, i know it's not open to the public yet | 23:41 |
| tripzero | ali1234, you should bug lbt for access | 23:42 |
| ali1234 | i don't see how it would help me tbh | 23:42 |
| ali1234 | and i certainly don't see how i can help them | 23:42 |
| ali1234 | given i have no idea what i am doing | 23:42 |
| tripzero | heh | 23:42 |
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| tripzero | reading you wiki page, you seem to know *something* | 23:43 |
| ali1234 | but i have a special requirement: i want to build on a machine without ssse3 | 23:43 |
| ali1234 | afaik the maemo OBS does not have that limitation | 23:43 |
| ali1234 | so they are solving a different problem | 23:43 |
| lbt | tripzero... ali1234 doesn't want to work on a machine that needs non-anonymous access... (right ali1234?) | 23:44 |
| ali1234 | that too | 23:44 |
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| tripzero | oh | 23:44 |
| tripzero | lame | 23:44 |
| lbt | the maemo obs is actually an AMD box.... shhh | 23:44 |
| tripzero | lol | 23:44 |
| arfoll | what's wrong with non anon access? | 23:44 |
| arfoll | lbt: LMAO | 23:44 |
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| ali1234 | well, not non anonymous but not open to the public | 23:45 |
| tripzero | lbt, who else is hacking on the obs's? | 23:45 |
| arfoll | the repo's are though... just the actual projects | 23:45 |
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| ali1234 | for example i have a launchpad account but i won't sign the CoC | 23:45 |
| * tripzero wonders what it takes to get more build infrastructure going (like autotools, pkg-config, etc) | 23:45 | |
| ali1234 | so i can't use their build service | 23:46 |
| lbt | lbt we're still in beta... so we're working on getting the maemo stuff to build... so people need to have an N900 | 23:46 |
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| arfoll | but there is no condition as far as I know to use the maemo OBS... | 23:46 |
| lbt | when the meego.com public one opens we'll have that wide open | 23:46 |
| lbt | arfoll: there is ... it has fremantle on it | 23:46 |
| lbt | binaries | 23:47 |
| tripzero | lbt, meego.com is going to open? | 23:47 |
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| lbt | public one... yes. not build.meego.com | 23:47 |
| tripzero | lbt, your public one? | 23:47 |
| lbt | yes | 23:47 |
| tripzero | ahk | 23:47 |
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| tripzero | different than what's on build.obs.maemo.org? | 23:48 |
| lbt | "my" public on is a meego.com machine at OSU | 23:48 |
| tripzero | oh | 23:48 |
| lbt | yes... but when it's up we'll unplug build.obs.maemo.org and ship it over and plug it in | 23:48 |
| tripzero | cool | 23:48 |
| tripzero | eta? | 23:48 |
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| lbt | weeks | 23:49 |
| lbt | before the conference :) | 23:49 |
| tripzero | mkk | 23:49 |
| tripzero | :) | 23:49 |
| lbt | feel free to pay me to take a day off work and work on it... I already spend most of my weekends and evenings on it | 23:50 |
| * sebs__ thinks meego will not boot from a fat32 microsdcard | 23:50 | |
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| sebs__ | ;) | 23:50 |
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| lbt | although recently I've not actually had any weekends... | 23:50 |
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| tripzero | summer happens to us all | 23:51 |
| CosmoHill | unless you live in iceland | 23:51 |
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| ali1234 | i was just about to ask if all this OBS stuff is going to be "ready" before the conference :) | 23:52 |
| sebs__ | to complete the list of shame i filled while trying to setup meego: false images, not using -l instead -f, FAT32 instead of ext* on the microsd, not knowing the way back, having a empty battery (after 20 tries) and a broken USB port on a N900 | 23:52 |
| * sebs__ shakes his head | 23:52 | |
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| CosmoHill | salut trem | 23:53 |
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| ali1234 | damn, i filled my disk :( | 23:56 |
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| ali1234 | i forgot ~root was not on home... oops | 23:57 |
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| Pforce | wow | 23:58 |
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| * CosmoHill plugs the cable back in | 23:58 | |
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| * Gizmokid2005 eats CosmoHill for pulling the plug | 23:59 | |
| CosmoHill | :o | 23:59 |
| vgrade | ali1234, gcc-4.5.0-6.3 builds against meego:current on build.obs.maemo.org | 23:59 |
| vgrade | ali1234 | 23:59 |
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