IRC log of #meego for Tuesday, 2010-08-17

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* lbt just looked at the costs for the conference... I can fly *AND* stay 3 days in the D4 Berkely for £150... or I can book on the conference site and pay €315 for just the accomodation.... mmm00:32
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tripzerolbt, so why cna't the obs build anything?00:33
lbttubes are full of gunk00:33
tripzeroneed plumbers00:33
CosmoHilllbt: lol00:33
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janimaaario to the rescue00:46
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killeusanybody knows how to make a qt application on fullscreen mode?01:12
killeusi tried with showFullscreen but it doesn't work01:12
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tripzerokilleus, try #qt01:14
TSCHAKeee /join #linuxmce-private01:15
killeusi've already did it in other platforms. I thik that it is not a qt problem01:15
killeusthe same code works on maemo01:15
killeusand linux desktop01:15
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killeustripzero: have you ever did a fullscreen application on meego?01:16
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tripzerokilleus, meego? handset? netbook?01:20
tripzerosorry, meego is slightly ambiguous01:20
killeustripzero: meego handset running on a n90001:20
killeustripzero: i know :D01:20
tripzerois this pure qt or meegotouch?01:20
killeuspure qt01:20
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tripzerorunning with -style meegotouch?01:21
csdHi - I'm looking for the gnome-screensaver arm rpm, and it seems to only have it under netbook/i58601:22
killeuslet me try01:22
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csdanyone know where it is?01:22
tripzerocsd, why do you want the gnome-screensaver for arm?01:23
tripzerohandset doesn't use any gnome stuff01:23
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csdtripzero, I'm building an image by hand and when I start X+mutter, I get the following on .xsession-errors01:27
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csdsh: /usr/bin/gnome-screensaver: No such file or directory01:27
tripzerooh, you are trying netbook on arm...01:28
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csdwell. my ks file is badly mangled by now, but what tells it that I'm trying netbook? I was trying to get uxlaunch to work - isn't that also used for handsets?01:30
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tripzeroyes, uxlaunch is used for handsets, but using a different configuration01:32
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csdokay, so I guess I got my config wrong then - I'll take a look at what's wrong. So handset isn't supposed to use mutter?01:35
killeustripzero: i still have the main top bar01:37
killeustripzero: that one with the clock01:37
tripzerokilleus, hmm. oh01:37
tripzerothe system-ui bar?01:37
tripzeroi don't think you can make that go away01:37
killeusyeah.. the system-ui01:37
tripzerocheck qtconfig see if there are other styles available01:37
tripzerolike a default qt style01:38
killeushum.. may be01:38
tripzeroof course, that will likely make your app look like crap...01:38
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killeustripzero: i know01:39
kaitlin_tripzero: If you don't want the systemui-bar, you can remove the meegotouch-systemui.desktop from /etc/xdg/autostart.  Then uxlaunch wouldn't start it on boot.01:39
killeusqtconfig => segmentation fault01:40
tripzerokaitlin_, i think he wants it, just not in his full-screen qt-app01:40
tripzeroand i think the qt style is making it so all qt apps have the sysui bar01:41
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tripzerokilleus, that may be a bug01:41
kaitlin_Ah, hmm.. I missed that.01:41
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killeustripzero, kaitlin_: thanks anyway.. i have to go now01:43
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CosmoHilleither you're 17 or you're clone #1702:08
b-man`b-man17 is my registered nick02:10
b-man`but i prefer b-man02:10
CosmoHillyou have a `02:11
b-man`and i am 17 xD02:11
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CosmoHillit was either that or 9302:11
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b-man`92 ;)02:12
aukeI'm not changing my nick to auke37, that would be ambiguous :)02:12
CosmoHillI thought you were younger02:13
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b-man`CosmoHill: turn 18 in october ;)02:14
CosmoHillI turned 18 in March02:14
CosmoHill2007 >.>02:15
berndhsI've been 29 for so long, i don't even remember02:15
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ColdSuni was wondering if there is any info on skinning meego?02:18
CosmoHillstep 1. sharpen knife02:18
JaffaColdSun: Which UX? :-/02:19
JaffaThat's question #1 today. In a few months time, it'll be "which MeeGo?" :-/02:19
ali1234surely the question would be "which device?"02:21
berndhshow is the community OBS doing? taking non-maemo people now ?02:21
ali1234berndhs: i'm making progress on setting up my own OBS if that helps02:22
ali1234i've only been at it for 4 days, i think i might be able to actually build a package in the next couple of days :)02:22
berndhscan i help with that?02:22
ColdSundevice would be a netbook02:22
ColdSunim new to meego, so what does UX mean?\02:23
ali1234ColdSun: UX means netbook, handset, or in-vehicle02:23
CosmoHillUser Experience02:23
berndhsali1234 I got a suse obs, but can't really run it as a service here02:23
ali1234ColdSun: when people actually start releasing devices with customized front ends, the question is going to become "which device?" but at the moment it means the same thing02:24
ali1234berndhs: i'm just running the OBS appliance in a VM02:24
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ali1234berndhs: i got as far as linking to the openSUSE OBS, now i need to bootstrap the meego toolchain against that02:25
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ali1234in theory all i have to do now is figure out how to load up the srpms02:25
berndhsali1234: hmm, then run workers as a xen vm inside the vm ?02:25
ali1234no, just run them in chroot02:26
ali1234i'm only interested in building for the arch running the server02:26
ColdSuni would like to make a skin for meego02:26
berndhsthat will work on e.g. a fedora system ?02:26
ali1234berndhs: what do you mean?02:26
berndhsrun the server appliance inside an opensuse vm, and the workeds on the fedora host02:27
ali1234berndhs: OBS appliance is a full distro with OBS already set up02:27
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berndhsyes i know i have on02:27
ali1234i'm running it in virtual box on ubuntu host, not that it makes any difference02:27
ali1234i'm running everything in the one VM02:27
berndhsso i can just run that in a virtualbox vm02:27
berndhsi should try that02:27
ColdSunlast newbie question i promise:  can the icons along the top of the latest interface be changed?02:27
ali1234berndhs: i'm keeping notes:
berndhsok i'll check that out, thanks02:28
ali1234no guarantee i'm doing it right though02:28
berndhsof course :)02:28
berndhsi can make rpms, but my meego machine isn't pristine, has non-standard stuff installed02:29
ali1234i tried before the build rpms in a normal meego chroot but too many of them failed02:30
infobotali1234 meant: i tried before to build rpms in a normal meego chroot but too many of them failed02:30
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berndhsi guess i should make a meego vm in virtualbox to test my rpms02:31
CosmoHillberndhs: core or GUI?02:31
berndhsgui applications02:31
ali1234the only machine i have that can run meego is an atom, so no VX02:31
CosmoHillthen no02:32
CosmoHillmeego requires 3D support02:32
ali1234virtualbox has 3d support now, if you can make it work02:32
berndhsah yes, my ssse3 machine with native intel as a host would be hidden02:32
CosmoHillyou can try but I don't think it's up to it02:33
ali1234i need to recompile everything without ssse3 before i even get to that point02:33
berndhsit makes sense, unfortunately02:33
ali1234so, first step, recompile meego toolchain against openSUSE repos to make a new build target for everything else02:33
CosmoHilloh wait you're already on there02:34
ali1234CosmoHill: yeah i know, my nick is on that page under yours :)02:34
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berndhslooking at none of the details, that will take me, oh, 3 weeks if i'm good ?02:36
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ali1234vgrade: i didn't test that objdump line on an actual ssse3 binary btw, cos i didn't have one handy... can you (or anyone else) confirm it works?02:38
ali1234(i tested it my grepping for standard x86 instructions, then substituting the ssse3 ones)02:39
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alex_hi, who knows that how to install " pyqt" using yum?06:14
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alex_anybody here???06:37
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ali1234wow i think my OBS is building something!!!07:08
ljpI'm here07:08
ali1234ljp: he quit :(07:08
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ali1234cool, it succeeded in compiling binutils07:26
ali1234that's like 95% of the battle :)07:26
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ali1234hmm so gcc failed to build because a patch didn't apply08:12
ali1234maybe i should use trunk instead 1.0.108:12
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ali1234this sucks. is down, so i can't use my obs.09:38
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johnxis there some central event handling daemon on meego that deals with things such as: "user hit the power button" or "battery is critically low"09:44
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johnxso is power management handled differently on every machine running meego? What ever happened to OHM?10:01
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sofarjohnx: planned for merging afaik10:07
johnxah, cool10:07
johnxso that's going to be used on ARM and x86?10:08
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johnxwhile I'm bothering you, :) do you happen to know how if there will be something similar to cron (or nokia's alarmd)?10:10
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sofarjohnx: cron for now, not sure what later10:11
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Ux4evervgrade : hello, I tried yesterday evening some test with my archos A910:14
Ux4everI read your several post with _BuBu, but I got some errors :-(10:15
_BuBUHi Ux4ever10:16
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nialamorning rain :/11:54
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th3hateStskeeps, will meego(.com) release contain intell appUp store?12:17
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lbtfabo: no, you didn't12:52
lbtwe were waiting for you12:52
lbtcan you join #meego-dev though12:53
fabolbt: I'm in meego-dev12:53
fabohmmm no ...12:53
slaineStskeeps: I assume armv5 builds are targetting the n8x0 devices ???12:55
slainemorning CosmoHill12:55
Stskeepsslaine: it is, but if we don't meet our goals with the production obs, even n8x0 is irrelevant12:56
slaineyup, just checking12:58
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CosmoHillsalut tekojo13:03
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tekojoCosmoHill: hi, funny thing how ripping the ethernet cable disconnects irc13:03
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tekojoalso closing the irc client disconnects irc, where do I file a bug?13:06
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CosmoHilltekojo: go to then close your web broswer13:06
tekojoah, I also closed the browser accidentally back there13:07
CosmoHillare you on a desktop or a laptop?13:07
sivuwhere does the OBS get the downloadurl for buildinfo13:07
sivui searched every config for the solution but still get wrong ip listed and so local builds fail13:08
tekojoCosmoHill: laptop, or netbook to be precise13:08
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CosmoHillit would be a strech to say you'd knock out the power cable and have a flat battery at the same time13:09
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tekojoCosmoHill: I certainly can try!13:09
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lcukCosmoHill, he said accidentally closed browser.  it occured when the netbook fell to the floor after catching the power lead with his leg and the ensuing dive to try and catch stuff managed a cascade effect in the offices13:10
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tekojolcuk: ethernet cable :)13:10
lcukthats a good point13:11
lcukmoral being: use wifi :p13:11
tekojoI really blame danielwilms, he wanted the eth cable13:12
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lcuklol tekojo13:22
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* CosmoHill offers tea14:12
* LokisSword accepts gracefully14:13
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LokisSwordI've recently received a Joggler and have been trying out various distros. Looking to try meego.14:14
CosmoHillyou're in luck14:14
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LokisSwordCosmohill: interesting, does meego currently have an on-screen keyboard? Or still need yen keyboard.14:19
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CosmoHillI think he was using a real keyboard in that video14:20
LokisSwordYen = usb14:20
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LokisSwordWhat is video playback performance like on meego?14:21
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timelessmeego is a software platform...14:21
LokisSwordUI looked fairly snappy in that video14:21
timelessw/o a hardware platform, you can't usually have concrete numbers for anything14:21
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leinirLokisSword: Well, that's a Joggler, which is a fairly powerful piece of hardware :)14:22
LokisSwordExcuse my Linux noobness, meego is just a windowing manager / shell on a Linux base?14:22
leinirNot quite...14:23
CosmoHilln00b = moron14:23
CosmoHillnewbie = someone who is new to something14:23
leinirIt's more involved than that...14:23
LokisSwordLiner, yuppie I've just got one, running unr on it with xbmc, etc. It's a nice bit of kit.14:24
leinirehrm... i'm not a pool base ;)14:24
LokisSwordLinir, sorry.14:24
leinirleinir, try tab completion ;)14:24
CosmoHilloh that's right, I have a pentium 4 >.<14:25
LokisSwordCrappy, sorry on my phone on a tram.. excuse poor typing.14:25
chakie_workCosmoHill: first time i see that distinction between newbie and n00b14:26
CosmoHillit's one of my pet hates when people getting wrong14:26
chakie_workn00b is just a l33t version of newbie14:26
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leinirchakie_work: not entirely - context has redefined the term14:29
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chakie_workcontext gives different meaning to many words14:30
leinirnewbie is a mild derogative, whereas n00b is much more harsh :)14:30
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chakie_worki call myself a n00b when it comes to most computer related things14:30
leinir*nods* A saying i use a lot is that context is everything14:31
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* CosmoHill makes a note that when someone goes "I\m a n00b" to respond with "yes, yes you are"14:35
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CosmoHilltekojo: I bet for your birthday you want a ethernet cable that still has them plastic clips on14:36
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tekojono, this time I was stupid enough to update fedora 13 to KDE 4.514:36
tekojoit seems to need a reboot14:37
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* CosmoHill wonders why he's download VMware workstation 7 when he has the latest Virtualbox14:37
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CosmoHill570MB vs 70MB14:38
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CosmoHillsomeone in LFS is asking if he can charge for his distro15:14
CosmoHillI'm I correct in assuming that he can't charge for open source software (GPL)15:14
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rwhitbyyou can charge as much as you like for GPL software15:15
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sharpneliYeah. There is nothing stopping from charging from a distro.15:15
rwhitbybut you must give the source code for reasonable distribution costs only, so the price tends towards zero15:15
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rwhitby(as 1000 other people can then sell it for half your price, and so on)15:15
CosmoHillI shell tell him this15:15
sharpnelirwhitby: Only after you've sold it. So you can charge loads of cash for it. Though anyone who receives a copy from the original purchaser has also right to ask the sources.15:16
rwhitbyright, you can charge $1M for the first copy, but must then give the source to the person who bought it.  They can recoup the cost by selling 1M copies at $1 each.15:17
rwhitby(or any other permutation as market forces allow)15:17
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sharpneliThe best method is probably doing as redhat enterprise is doing. Sell support and access to the repo.15:18
Maceroracle killed opensolaris15:18
sharpneliAs you're only obligated to give the source, not nicely compilet packages.15:18
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Macersharpneli: so the trick is to make the code so completely unfollowable that it can not be understood :)15:19
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Macermake 10,000 lines of equations just to make "Hello World" heh15:20
Macerfollow a completely random structure and implement completely unrelated things into code files15:21
CosmoHillthere is a programming language called "brainfuck"15:21
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CosmoHilli think it's like morse code with a compiler15:21
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MacerCosmoHill: hah15:21
CosmoHillone of the lecturers put it on the software requirment list at uni :/15:22
smokuCosmoHill, try Whitespace :)15:22
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CosmoHillC, C#, C++, F90, Brainfuck, AS3, Java15:23
smokuCosmoHill, language using SPACE, TAB, CR, LF to write commands. every other (printable) character is a comment :)15:23
Tumi_whitespace is nice =)15:23
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CosmoHillI hope that doesn't come up as a random quote on the logs15:23
timelessbrainfuck is fairly standard15:23
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CosmoHillsmoku: oh dear lord15:24
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CosmoHilltimeless: I think he only wants it to see the reaction of the first year students15:24
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CosmoHill"omg you can swear infront of a lecturer!"15:24
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TermanaN900fairly standard? sure, as long as you like slashing your wrists15:25
CosmoHillBrainF**k, the language of emos!15:26
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smokuCosmoHill, actually I think learning bf is very usefull. it teaches you a certain way of thinking. kind of brute-force using limmited tools approach.15:27
CosmoHilli read that as boyfriend :/15:27
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epxmasochism :)15:28
sx0nsmoku, i thought that is what java is for15:28
smokusx0n, depends how you define limitted, isn't it? :)15:29
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* CosmoHill gives armika a cookie15:31
* rwhitby is enjoying the Whitespace LRM15:31
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sx0nsmoku, just joking, java is probably not so bad but bf is really a curiosity in my opinion.15:32
* CosmoHill giggles15:33
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smokusx0n, for me this title is for scheme and erlang.  being strange and popular - THAT15:34
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smokuTHAT'S curious15:35
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dcthanghi everyone15:35
smoku(i will throw this keyboard out of the window someday)15:35
dcthangwho knows how to resize meego image file ?15:35
dcthangsince I install so many applications on meego, over 2.9Gb?15:35
dcthangno one?:)15:37
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sx0ndcthang, by making a smaller configuration file for it?15:39
dcthang@szOn: oh where15:40
dcthangI mean I mount it to one folder (raw file mount)15:41
dcthangand I install some apps there, it consumes lot of space15:41
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dcthangsx0n: sudo mount -o loop,offset=512 <image file> <directory>15:42
dcthangsx0n: Could you tell how to make the configuration file?15:42
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sx0ndcthang, i cant really say. unless you make image file by yourself.
sx0nthose ks files includes the configuration and apps that are included in image.15:44
sx0nbut that's probably different than you are looking for.15:44
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dcthangsx0n: yes15:44
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dcthangcos I installed so many apps there, I do not want to make it from scratch and then have to install all and all again15:45
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dcthangor how to make the mounted folder used free space on the host?15:46
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dcthangfor exp: host has 10GB free space, meanwhile the raw file has 2.9GB, so how mounted folder can use 10GB free space..15:47
dcthangmight be mount it to one folder, and then copy all of that folder to one new folder :P15:48
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dcthangsx0n: thanks for your help :)15:52
sx0nwhat help? :)15:52
sx0ni was just quietly thinking nfs mounting.15:53
dcthangjust your answer :)15:54
dcthangone my solution is to copy it to other folder15:54
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* thiago upgrades his netbook to 1.0.215:59
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whitewineCould you tell me when is, you guess, the new Nokia meego smart phone comming here? :)16:17
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slainewhitewine: within the next 2 years16:17
leinirA wild guess: Announcement at the MeeGo Conference :)16:18
whitewineWhen will it be?16:18
MohammadAG51November 15-1716:18
slaineleinir: isn't there a nokia conference prior to that date ?16:18
whitewineThat's great!16:19
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slainewhitewine: that's a guess though16:19
MohammadAG51september afaik, but that's for intel16:19
slaineMohammadAG51: I know about the IDF, I'm talking about Nokia16:19
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leinirslaine: Hmm... yeah, i guess there is :)16:19
MohammadAG51slaine, I know16:19
slaineI think there's a Nokia/Qt one though16:19
leinirNot sure that isn't a bit too close, though :)16:19
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leinir*nods* DevDays is coming up :)16:19
slainewonder if we'll see something further on the MeeGo Tablets16:20
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DawnFosterQuick reminder that the Community Office meeting starts in 40 minutes:
chakie_workleinir: going this year?16:21
CosmoHillthanks DawnFoster, no idea there was a meeting16:21
DawnFosterAnyone who wants to attend is welcome to join16:21
leinirchakie_work: devdays? hopefully, but it depends...16:21
DawnFosterCosmoHill: Hmm, I posted it to the mailing list on Friday16:22
CosmoHillI'm only in the channel16:22
leinirPrimarily on sponsorship, really :) i'm hoping to pull off a repeat of last year's performance :)16:22
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whitewineOne more question. Do you think Nokia+Intel+MeeGo can beat Android and iOS?16:26
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ml-mobileiOS is inherently limited16:26
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whitewineI'm talking 'bout populatity and sales.16:27
epxdepends on Nokia :)16:27
ml-mobileand if any other vendors pick it up16:27
epxin technical terms I prefer maemo 5 already16:27
epxso meego should be better (and more prefer-able?)16:28
ml-mobilemeego should be equally as functional technically as Maemo 5, and being more open should be better16:29
Termanawhitewine, your asking a question no one knows16:29
Termanaknows the answer to*16:29
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whitewineYeah, but we can try to imagine or just guess...16:30
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TSCHAKeeefunny thing about imagination16:32
TSCHAKeeeyou can IMAGINE anything16:32
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TSCHAKeeei could imagine that I shit gold bricks, which keeps my bitchez happy and willing to service me...somehow I don't think it would work out that way, though.... :P16:33
GAN900OK, who's going to point lazy me to the clarification about the hotel booking/payment setup if sponsorship is involved?16:33
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CosmoHillGAN900: i think lbt said it was cheaper for him to sort out his own travel and accomidation16:35
GAN900CosmoHill, yes, but then is it paid if you're actually sponsored?16:36
whitewineTSCHAKeee, there are really unreal thing and may-be-possible things. That's the difference.16:36
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lbtyeah... was kinda surprised at how much cheaper16:37
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GAN900Apparently the lf has really terrible rate negotiators.16:37
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GAN900Or they're serving breakfast on the good silver.16:37
* lbt saw rooms at ~20% of the lf rate... ie 150 for flights+rooms for 3 nights... flight alone is 80... £70 for 3 nights16:39
whitewineTSCHAKeee, I'm talking 'bout predictions.16:39
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TSCHAKeeeboy, when you aspergers types don't get a joke, you don't get it spectacularly16:40
X-Fadelbt: But probably not 4 star hotels?16:40
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lbtX-Fade: same hotel16:40
X-Fadelbt: heh, nice.16:40
leinirNow... what will the internet connection be like at the conference, anybody know?16:40
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X-Fadeleinir: Don't expect too much.16:40
lbt'cept nokia are probably paying for me so I probably can't book it...16:41
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leinirX-Fade: Well, pondering for presentations :)16:41
X-Fadeleinir: Don't. Only offline ;)16:41
e-yesbtw. important question: good SIP CLIENT FOR LINUX?16:42
leiniri know the wireless is going to be dodgy, it always is, but i'm wondering if there'll be a wire for the presenter, for live demos of online services :)16:42
* lbt plans on hauling a server up onstage for his demo...16:42
TermanaRemember everyone16:42
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TermanaRecord with your n900s - just in case any idiots that are suppose to be officially recording dont do it right16:43
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whitewineTSCHAKeee, I'm not a boy :)16:43
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leinirPut shortly: i would like to show a live end-to-end demo type thing, which would require online access. i can do it without (and will of course make plans for such an eventuality), but am just wondering if i can expect some level of service :)16:43
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achipaTermana: all too true, there were a 100 cams on the last summit and then just a handful of videos popped up afterwards16:47
Stskeepswell, that was partly because the recording crew were morons..16:47
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GAN900Whoever hired that team should be killed.16:48
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* CosmoHill dispatches his ninjas16:48
TermanaYeah well, lets hope it works out better for the MeeGo conference.16:49
TermanaOtherwise I'm going to do some killing myself16:49
CosmoHill11 Minutes until the Community Office meeting16:49
* leinir thinks the team which handled akademy this year should be hired to handle the meego conf...16:49
leinirThat was spectacularly efficient - less than a week and all the videos were online16:49
lbtleinir: tell Quim/Dawn16:49
DawnFosterleinir - can you send me the name of the vendor - or better yet post it on the conference wiki page?16:50
leinirDawnFoster: what i just said ;) The main guy's name here on IRC is seaLne - i do not know if they would actually be interested, but if so, it would b well worth it. Very capable people :)16:50
leinirIt's not a vendor as such, they were community people16:51
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leinirehrm... the wiki is being weird on me16:54
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leiniri click login, i'm shown my user page... i go back to the wiki, i'm apparently still not logged in16:54
DawnFosterdon't click the log in button at the top16:54
DawnFosterit should say log in / log out at the top16:54
DawnFosterclick log out16:54
DawnFosterthen don't log in yet16:54
DawnFosterin the middle of the page, click the "log in again" link16:55
vgradearjan, did you seen the GMA500 MeeGo videos?16:55
DawnFosterthat will take you to the drupal login page16:55
DawnFosterit's a bug16:55
DawnFosterwe're working on it16:55
CosmoHillvgrade: iirc the Nokia Notebook 3G has a GMA50016:55
leinirRight, there we go16:56
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CosmoHillth3hate51: almost there17:07
DawnFosterth3hate51: oopsie17:08
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thpis there a way to get ssh/root access in the pre-built n900 meego handset images?17:22
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CosmoHillthp: could try typing "which sshd"17:23
vilvothp: timoph has worked on that to automate test execution17:23
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vilvosaid he got it working about 1.5hrs ago17:23
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Stskeepsthp: (host)/ (device), replug cable if it doesnt work at first17:24
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GAN900Wish we could work out the kinks and confusion for registration BEFORE openning it up.17:25
lcukStskeeps, wifi networking still not running?17:25
timeless_mbpGAN900:  where's the fun in that?17:26
thpStskeeps: thanks, will try it out. is this documented on the wiki? if not, where should i add it?17:26
timeless_mbpi mean, sure we did that @maemo for voting17:26
Stskeepslcuk: fixed in next release17:26
timeless_mbpby having a sample vote17:26
timeless_mbpbut why learn from positive experiences?17:26
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GAN900timeless_mbp, where's the fun in any of it? :P17:27
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CosmoHillis it just me or is the meeting getting a little messy atm17:28
timeless_mbpis meego supposed to be fun?17:28
GAN900Apparently not.17:28
TSCHAKeeenot when there is money involved somewhere.17:28
timeless_mbpCosmoHill:  the meetings i've seen work about the same as this one17:28
GAN900CosmoHill, clearly it's down to you to kick ass and impose structure.17:28
timeless_mbpthey're actually not too bad when you consider the possibilities and scale17:28
timeless_mbpand they're much better than TSG17:28
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* timeless_mbp sighs17:30
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timeless_mbpdo wikis have something against useful login behavior?17:30
timeless_mbpi'm @page 103 and i click log in, so obviously when i'm done, i want to go to page 117:31
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timeless_mbpbtw, what's a "cab"
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lcukStskeeps, \o/17:37
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leinirThere, session proposal submitted :)17:38
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* timeless_mbp pokes someone17:46
timeless_mbpwhat the heck is a cab?17:46
CosmoHillyou mean a taxi?17:46
timeless_mbpi doubt it17:46
MohammadAG51lol17:46 file?17:46
timeless_mbp> ▪Presidents Terrace for Keynotes Day 1 sits 1200 theatre style or 580 cab- suggesting theatre style for the keynotes17:46
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DawnFosteraround tables17:47
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TermanaLike the emmys?17:50
timeless_mbpis it an abbreviation? if so, for what? (i don't need an answer immediately, but I can't figure it out using google...)17:50
TermanaAnd the award for great openness acter is...17:50
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timeless_mbpshould i tell maclaver that he misspelled "Building" in Guides/Tutorials Page? :)17:52
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timeless_mbphrm, or he used an incredibly lame font17:53
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timeless_mbpeither way. shame.17:53
timeless_mbpusing a font where Ili all look the same...17:53
TermanaI'm sure its just a general outline anyway, rather than specifically deciding on the font17:54
timeless_mbpi'm not sure about that17:54
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TermanaOr at least, made full-page size, it probably wont look so bad17:55
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timeless_mbptypically one selects the font and layout at the same time17:56
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timeless_mbpnot doing that does not yield good results17:56
Termanatimeless_mbp, comment on the font now?17:57
timeless_mbpi'm still trying to figure out how to fix "cab-", it means "cabaret style seating"17:57
timeless_mbpwhich is not really "around tables" it's… strange17:57
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DawnFostertimeless: it's around tables but one one side of the table so people can still watch the presentation17:59
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timeless_mbpDawnFoster: yeah, thanks. sp3000 helped me fill out that bit17:59
timeless_mbp"around tables" does *not* give people the right idea18:00
sp3000it's ...semi-cabaret! :D18:00
timeless_mbpand given that cabaret is french and a fairly outdated thing, i think it's an awful choice of a word for use on an internationally oriented page18:00
* timeless_mbp is trying to figure out how to fix the page18:00
lcukdecide on seating now and fix page?18:01
sp3000dunno, it seems like plausibly a standard enough jargon18:01
timeless_mbpit's useful jargon for people who arrange theaters18:01
timeless_mbpit isn't useful jargon for the people who read the page18:01
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Khertan_Hi !18:02
Khertan_... does python and pyqt/pyside is available for handset ux ?18:02
timeless_mbpso… i'm tempted to just include a link to in a footnote section under "Jargon" ...18:02
timeless_mbp(for that page)18:02
Khertan_i didn't found any information about it currently18:02
sp3000right but that's to say that explaining it should be fine, replacing it could just end up more confusing18:02
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* timeless_mbp gets scooped on a link18:04
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timeless_mbphrm, that wasn't safari18:05
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X-FadeSo, continue here.18:08
StskeepsDawnFoster: btw, one thing that i notice often - the fact that each feature/requirement for meego has to have assigned maintainer/QA and that is the way to get something 'supported' in meego (by taking responsibility for it), isn't really written out anywhere - so many people perceive the project as being rigid when it's actually quite open if you want to grab a shovel..18:08
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lcuk"<DawnFoster> the production obs is already overloaded"18:08
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lcukyou only have 2 live instances?18:09
X-FadeHmm that may be true at times, but I think it copes.18:09
achipajust wondering, what's the url for the submitted conference proposals ?18:09
sp3000Stskeeps: does it differ in practice from the tried and true you touch it you own it model? :)18:09
Stskeepsachipa: click 'program'18:09
Stskeepssp3000: yes - you have to maintain and keep it maintained18:09
sp3000...once you touch it?18:09
lcukX-Fade, can the obs be given some extra grunt to ease up the bottlenecks?  in an adhoc fashion, ie just add new machines to the running cluster?18:10
sp3000...and if you don't we'll ...uh, be very cross with you?18:10
lbtlcuk: mmm yes and no18:10
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X-Fadelcuk: Yes, that is easy.18:10
DawnFosterStskeeps: yeah, I've been trying to work with people to understand that in an open source project, you really do need to jump in with a shovel.18:10
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X-FadeWell, adding workers is.18:10
achipaStskeeps: got it, need some coffee18:10
lbtif you have a spare 4 men to lift it into the datacentre it's easy...18:10
lbtor 3 women18:11
* lbt eyes DawnFoster18:11
DawnFosterwe've been adding servers to the OBS - we have more than 2 build targets and daily builds. It is more system intensive than it sounds18:11
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DawnFosterlbt: :)18:11
lcuk3 women? ohhh yes someone needs to hold the door18:11
X-FadeDawnFoster: Pfffff, a nice showcase for Intel :D18:11
X-FadeDawnFoster: See it as a marketing opportunity :)18:12
StskeepsDawnFoster: well, that and the formal process.. someone asked me 'how do we get ARM enabled for IVI repositories', which obviously requires people to take responsibility for that in terms of porting, resources, etc..18:12
lbtX-Fade: I'm not sure they need to be told that ;)18:12
lcukDawnFoster, I know all about build servers and how hard they work18:12
lcukamazing how much they manage and how flexible they can be18:12
CosmoHillI saw a ATX tower with 5 Q9400 processors in it18:12
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DawnFosterStskeeps: we definitely need more documentation around the process for contributing code, packaging, etc.18:14
CosmoHillit was 5 ITX motherboards with a Q9400, 2GB of RAM, a 2.5" hdd and a DVD drive each18:14
CosmoHillwater cooled with one 1000W PSU powering all of them18:14
lbtI'd like the community OBS to be a low-barrier-to-entry proving ground18:14
X-Fadefwiw, we can already try a x86 target on the beta one.18:15
lbtyeah... now the -dev list got to that conclusion18:15
lbtor at least stopped after Graham Cobb's great post18:16
X-FadeAnyone want to create a nice prjconf? :)18:16
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X-FadeI can import all sources for a snapshot if needed.18:17
* Stskeeps still maintains the problem is not the core, but what application and community SDK will default to.18:17
Stskeepser, application SDK and community OBS.18:17
lbtStskeeps: yeah... there's more to it than "build your own"18:17
X-FadeStskeeps: As long as they can build against it, it is fine?18:18
* lbt sees a 60 minute round table coming on in Nov18:18
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StskeepsX-Fade: if the default apps people make for meego only work on atom..18:18
* lcuk ponders a post: Jedis, OBS and building your own lightsabre18:18
X-FadeStskeeps: Sure, only OSS can be supported then.18:19
lbtJaffa: are you sure the deposit is non-refundable?18:19
VenemoI have a question that has been unanswered for months18:19
VenemoWill MeeGo handset have anything like Fremantle's desktop widgets?18:19
X-FadeAnyway, need to go now. bbl.18:19
StskeepsVenemo: i've seen something like that mentioned in test cases on, so i guess so18:19
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Jaffalbt: The website is pretty conclusive about it.18:20
Jaffalbt: Let me dig it out as I'm resending an email about it18:21
VenemoStskeeps: thanks18:21
VenemoStskeeps: just asking because there hasn't been anything like that in the demos I've seen so far18:21
lbt"If a room is cancelled within 72 hours of arrival, all prepayments will be refunded except for the first night deposit."18:22
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VenemoStskeeps: the other question is, where is the Tablet UX seen in several videos?18:23
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StskeepsVenemo: dunno18:23
StskeepsDawnFoster: are we motivating the current set of people listed under governance to be proposing talks as well btw? I'm not seeing many high profile presentations18:23
VenemoStskeeps: it is not even mentioned in the gitorious page18:23
DawnFosterstskeeps: I've been working on it - they still have a week (procrastinators!)18:24
Macerso. how is n900 meego going?18:25
StskeepsMacer: good, armv7 image is looking really nice and wifi is working properly now18:25
StskeepsDawnFoster: :nod: i bet a slashdotting like effect on conference site nearby deadline ;)18:25
Maceryou have a hw page that shows what is working so far?18:26
StskeepsMacer: follow the test reports is the best way18:26
Macerim curious about the gtalk and skype video chatting18:26
Stskeepsand eventually the feature tracking18:26
Stskeepsgtalk is jabber18:26
Stskeepsskype, not our context18:26
Macerheh. yeah i suppose18:26
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lcukhmmm wifi working? fully configurable?18:27
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MacerStskeeps: well. figured telepathy would find its way to meego18:27
ScottishDuckis it beta day tomorrow?18:27
DawnFosterstskeeps: everyone waits to the last minute :)18:27
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TermanaScottishDuck, Beta Day? Sounds as bad as Patch Tuesday18:28
MacerStskeeps: where can i see the test reports?18:28
VenemoStskeeps: where are these test reports you mentioned?18:28
Macerthat was weird Venemo18:28
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tripzerohow do i make the mouse appear?18:31
tripzeroon the handset images?18:31
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luisthello... how do i install a meego img in virtual box?19:30
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VenemoMacer: yep, but still no answer19:36
Stskeepssorry, i had to go eat - i do require nutrition for hacking19:37
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ali1234so i got my obs working, tried to compile meego inside it19:38
StskeepsMacer, Venemo: - this is done on a work-day basis, some against weekly, etc - so percentages swing a lot19:38
ali1234that all seems ok, but the actual source won't compile19:38
VenemoStskeeps: thanks :)19:38
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Stskeepsali1234: what kind of build host and what kind of error19:38
ali1234the build host is an OBS appliance19:38
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qgilhi, has some had a look at Canonical's UTouch framework? What is it? What does it mean for app developers? What is the relation with GTK+ Qt or X or...?19:38
Stskeepshmm, no, first i've heard of it19:39
Stskeepslet me go look19:39
ali1234building against fedora 12 and 13 on an AMD CPU19:39
ali1234and the errors are all stuff like "error: Installed (but unpackaged) file(s) found:"19:39
ali1234or patches which fail to apply to the source tarball19:39
ali1234basically trivial stuff that you would expect to work properly19:40
Stskeepsali1234: pastebin a build log please19:40
ali1234i tried both 1.0.1 and the daily srpms, and they fail in different ways19:40
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ali1234so far all i successfully built is binutils19:41
ali1234i need mpc-devel for gcc, and it won't go19:41
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ali1234first paste was mpc failing on fedora 13, second was mpc failing on fedora 1219:42
VenemoStskeeps: as I see, none of the test reports are about the N900, or am I missing something?19:42
StskeepsVenemo: hmm? scroll down to ARM N900?19:42
ali1234process i followed to even get this far:
VenemoStskeeps: aaah, sorry...19:43
Stskeepsqgil: initial impression is that they do gestures at a weird place in the platform stack, but it seems independent from gtk+, more related to x (and not a replacement for what xorg is bringing)19:44
Stskeepsnot tied to a certain toolkit at first glance, but deeper analysis needed19:44
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VenemoStskeeps: as I can see from here (, it is full of "fail"s :(19:45
StskeepsVenemo: it's development images, fails will happen :)19:46
Stskeepsand they only help to get things fixed19:46
Stskeepsthe problem is when there's fails we don't find19:46
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luisthow do i create a virtual machine with a meego image? im using mac and virtualbox19:46
tripzeroluist, you need to either make a livecd image, mount and boot or dd it to your vbox drive19:47
luisttripzero: any tut?19:47
VenemoStskeeps: yes, I know what software testing is for19:47
Stskeepsali1234: impressive progress19:47
ali1234Stskeeps: really? but it doesn't even work :)19:47
Stskeepsali1234: at least it doesn't break in the setup phase :)19:47
tripzeroyou can dd it by loading some livecd like ubuntu and doing an cat someimage.img | ssh sever "cat > dd of=/dev/something"19:48
ali1234Stskeeps: well yeah i had that problem, that's why i decided to use the appliance image19:48
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tripzeroerr, "cat | dd of=/dev/foo"19:48
luisttripzero: any easier way?19:48
Stskeepsali1234: +1 for actually taking on the challenge19:48
VenemoStskeeps: what I meant is that I was a little too optimistic :)19:48
luisttripzero: i dont have any livecd image around here19:48
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tripzeroluist, those are the only two ways i can think of19:49
Stskeepsali1234: what prjconf are you using?19:49
ali1234Stskeeps: i'm not19:49
ali1234Stskeeps: i created a blank project through the web UI. my OBS is linked to opensuse19:49
Stskeepsali1234: ah, first problem then19:49
luisttripzero: whats the other way... without using a livecd image19:49
Stskeepsali1234: and you're building meego, right19:50
qgilStskeeps: thanks and looks like my own personal summary in a rush  :)19:50
tripzeroluist, the other way is to use mic-image-creator to make a livecd instead of a .img19:50
ali1234i grabbed daily source rpms from and uploaded them into the new, blank, project19:50
ali1234from meego daily that is19:51
luisttripzero: hm.... sounds better19:51
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Stskeepsali1234: ok, so, your binaries are currently building against fedora 13 and hence they might produce different files output than the packaging expects19:52
ali1234my actual prjconf looks like this:
Stskeepsthat's prj, not prjconf19:52
VDVsxhumm, is there any know issues with the forum login ? got access denied when I click in the login link19:52
ali1234oh ok19:52
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Stskeepsali1234: i'm really wondering if the best way is to build on a ssse3 box, adjust your prjconf to be non-ssse3 and ask it to rebuild19:53
Stskeepsif you do it in 2 stages and copy binaries, it should be free of ssse319:53
ali1234well the only ssse3 box i have is my netbook19:53
ali1234it will takes weeks to do it running the OBS in a VM19:54
Stskeeps is a recent prjconf19:54
ali1234i tried to read out prjconf and i guess mine is blank?19:54
Stskeepsyeah, then it's == the fedora one19:55
* Stskeeps ponders19:55
Stskeepsyou might want to ask dl9pf how it was done for meego19:55
Stskeepsi guess it is technically a similar issue19:55
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ali1234since the only things i need to compile against fedora are binutils and gcc, can i just fix those so they compile, and then rebuild them in the second stage as "vanilla?"19:56
ali1234also one time i got as far as attempting to compile glibc, and it was using -march=core2 -mtune=atom cflags. is it hardcoded in the spec file or something?19:56
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Stskeepsali1234: yeah, easy to change19:56
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ali1234if so, how many other spec files have it hard coded?19:57
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Stskeepsi think that and the prjconf19:57
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luisttripzero: ok i got this E: Couldn't find package python-pykickstart    when running mic-check-alldeps19:59
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ali1234Stskeeps: i uploaded the prjconf and now i can't even build binutils because everything depends on a bunch of meego-only rpms now20:05
ali1234need to look at this properly, but it's dinner time20:05
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* CosmoHill stabs his mac20:23
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Tili_CosmoHill: me too20:37
Tili_soon will get rid of mac20:37
CosmoHillfor some reason gcc is completely ignoring LD_LIBRARY_PATH20:37
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* CosmoHill is learning GMP20:45
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CosmoHill :(20:48
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ali1234-lgmp ?20:52
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* CosmoHill recompiles gmp so he can run the test that he skipped first time >.>20:55
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ali1234remote gateway 504 timeout.... you gotta be kidding me21:01
Stskeeps504 \o/21:01
Stskeepsthis means it is tea time!21:01
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ali1234OBS really could use some better error reporting when this happens21:04
Stskeepstell me about it.21:04
ali1234i spent half an hour trying to figure out what was going on this morning21:04
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DuckBootDoes a meego image with modem-drivers and UX exists for the N900?21:07
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csd_hi - I'm trying to figure out how the different audio components that Meego is using fit together. Anyone online that knows the audio part? I'm trying to walk through which components would be used to e.g. make a voice call.21:08
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csd_From what I can see the audio stack for voip goes from telepathy->farsight->gstreamer->pulseaudio->alsa->HW21:09
ali1234hmm i'm confused21:09
CosmoHillali1234: welcome to the club21:10
ali1234i fixed mpc, now it is compiling gcc... but it also now says binutils and mpc are blocked by lib-gomp21:10
ali1234but it already compiled them... what?21:10
CosmoHillthis sounds like something i should know >.<21:10
csd_So audio coming in from a microphone would go up through HW->alsa->pulseaudio, and then what? Out the net via pulseaudio? Or futher up to gstreamer->farsight and then out the net?21:10
CosmoHillali1234: you compiling the properly or the lazy way?21:10
ali1234gcc failed to compile anyway21:11
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ali1234what do you mean? i am using OBS21:11
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CosmoHillone way to compile gcc is to unpack gmp. mpfr and mpc in the gcc source directory21:11
ali1234so i fixed mpc by adding the extra files to the spec21:11
ali1234but now the extra file in mpc conflicts with a file from gcc21:12
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ali1234is there a way to tell rpm to just ignore the extra files instead of adding them to the rpm?21:13
CosmoHillyou might be able to delete them from the rpm package21:13
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CosmoHilllet me see what i haev21:13
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ali1234i dont wanna hack things around any more than i have to21:13
ali1234i'd rather just tell it to ignore them in the spec21:14
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CosmoHillunder %install21:14
ali1234ah cool thanks21:14
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CosmoHillali1234: did you get what I just said about %install?21:24
ali1234yes, thanks21:24
CosmoHillyou're not the only person who makes RPMs :p21:25
CosmoHillbut I'm sure yours are better than mine21:25
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luisttripzero: hey i got a ubuntu livecd here.. can u help me with the img now?21:27
ali1234CosmoHill: i never made a rpm before21:28
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Ux4everhello all21:31
Ux4everI made some test for getting meego on A9, I'a young padawan21:32
Ux4everI start on _BuBu work21:32
CosmoHillso what's how you spell it21:33
Ux4everI don't have a best english21:34
CosmoHillI meant padawan21:35
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CosmoHillanyone want to take a whack at gmp?21:46
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luisti have a VM running ubuntu livecd.. can anyone help me to install meego img to this VM from here? im using virtualbox21:50
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CosmoHillmeego doesn't work on virtual machines21:52
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CosmoHillthe SDK might but I doubt it21:52
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tripzeroluist, install ssh-server on your ubuntus21:56
tripzeroand from your desktop with the img on it:21:56
tripzerocat theimage.img | ssh yourubuntulivesystem "cat | dd of=/dev/yourvboxhdd"21:57
tripzerothat should be it21:57
luisttripzero: instead of myubuntulivesystem i put user@IP ?21:58
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luisttripzero: how do i know whats myvboxhdd?22:00
tripzerofdisk -l22:00
luisttripzero: returns nothing22:01
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luisttripzero: any ideas?22:10
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CosmoHilltrigger:Desktop nate$ g++ -I/opt/include -lgmp problem3.cc22:26
CosmoHillld: library not found for -lgmp22:26
CosmoHillali1234: you where right, I needed -lgmp22:26
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* Ux4ever say hello22:32
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* Ux4ever try to find vgrade accordin Archos A9 stuff22:32
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lcukCosmoHill, heh you still stuck needing gmp stuff?22:33
CosmoHillmy mac is a douche22:33
* lcuk thought of you a few days ago actually22:33
CosmoHilland yes22:33
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CosmoHilli knew i needed gmp but I've only started using it22:34
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ali1234i like how you can watch the build log in real time on OBS22:35
CosmoHillali1234: cool22:35
lcukI noticed the osso-calculator-engine had arbritrary precision stuff :P22:35
ali1234but i don't like how my OBS goes down whenever the opensuse public one goes down22:35
* lcuk got too many r's in there22:36
CosmoHillin my code?22:37
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Ux4everWho's know where "mettop theme" reference is stored ?22:39
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Ux4evermy current test with my Archos 9 try to find it and my screen flick22:39
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ali1234yeah, so, i finally got mpc to compile properly22:42
ali1234but gcc still has patches that won't apply to the source22:42
ali1234and it is a different one now22:42
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CosmoHillali1234: I believe the key is gmp22:44
CosmoHillmpfr and probably mpc will use the build instructions that gmp used22:45
CosmoHilland gmp is a little bugger as it makes it's own up22:45
ali1234read the paste22:45
ali1234the rpm has patches that don't apply to the source inside therpm22:45
CosmoHillit;s how I suddenly ended up with 64bit in a 32bit userspace22:45
CosmoHillhow do you apply the patch?22:46
Stskeepsali1234: i think you're using rpmbuild defaults from fedora which isn't same as meego ones..22:46
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ali1234how would that affect the application of patches?22:46
Stskeepssetting of fuzz22:46
CosmoHillyou can use %patch0 -p1 but i found for some it doesn't work22:47
CosmoHillso i end up using patch -np1 %{SOURCE0}22:47
infobotCosmoHill meant: so i end up using patch -np1 %{PATCH0}22:47
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ali1234hmm so patch options are controlled by the project conf, not the spec file?22:51
ali1234that seems a little bit odd22:51
ali1234why not put it in the spec?22:51
CosmoHilltry /usr/lib/rpm/macro and see what %patch is22:51
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ali1234i don't know how to get inside the chroot to check it22:52
ali1234i'll try to build locally22:53
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CosmoHillpatch -Np1 -i %{PATCH0}22:53
CosmoHillI have that in one of my spec files22:53
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CosmoHill%patch0 -p1 << would be the same, in theory22:55
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vgradeali1234, my gcc build log from maemo OBS against modified prjconf with atom and ssse3 flags remove22:57
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ali1234you used 1.022:58
ali1234i am using trunk22:58
ali1234i never tried 1.0... it's so old22:58
arjanCosmoHill: in meego at least we have a strong preference for -p1 patches22:58
vgradebut works :)22:58
ali1234maybe it will work better if it diverged less from fedora at that point22:58
ali1234then i can bootstrap trunk against it22:58
arjan(just for consistency reasons.. we need to pick one as prefered and -p1 made sense)22:59
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CosmoHillall the patche I've applied have been -p122:59
CosmoHilli have no idea what it means tho :/22:59
vgradearjan, did you see the GMA500 MeeGo video's22:59
CosmoHillsomething to do with the parent directory?22:59
ali1234CosmoHill: it means strip the first directory off file paths when looking for the files to patch23:00
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CosmoHillali1234: I'd say you're welcome to look at my spec files but i don't know if that will help or make things worse :/23:00
ali1234so when i build against fedora it wants to patch like: /usr/bin/patch -s -p0 -b --suffix .hack~ --fuzz=023:00
arjanvgrade: I've seen some of them.23:00
arjanvgrade: surprised it works that well... we've had nothing but problems with it23:01
arjanto the point that we couldn't get it to reliably work.23:01
ali1234but seriously who thought it would be a good idea if srpms just relied on whatever the operating system defined way of patching was?23:01
vgradenetbook, handset and ivi, the full set!23:01
lcukfor now23:02
ali1234might as well give meego 1.0 a shot, i doubt it will make a difference though23:02
vgradearjan, dead end for now as the EMGD drivers have been pulled from repo.meego23:03
arjanthey were on there?23:04
arjanwe weren't allowed to distribute them23:04
arjansurprise they were on that23:04
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arjan(anyway if you got them... you don't have a license to redistribute either I'm sure ;-)23:05
TSCHAKeeefunny thing, by the time the GMA500 woes are solved, we'll have whole new chipsets to worry about :P23:05
arjancan't say I like the situation23:05
arjanbut it is what it is23:05
arjanTSCHAK: GMA500 seems best solved with a really big sledgehammer to turn the silicon back into sand ;-(23:05
vgradeThere was some talk about the GMA60023:05
TSCHAKeee................starting to....agree.....23:06
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arjanvgrade: which sadly is a ratehr different beast23:06
arjanincompatible to gma50023:06
TSCHAKeeedoes it suck less?23:06
arjanit'll suck differently23:06
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Stskeepsthe new emgd drivers seemed very like the pvr-bin ones at least, at least they shared the imgtec/pvr typical libs we also have on n90023:06
lcukok, like a superhero23:06
vgradeso will EMGD ever see the light of day on MeeGo23:06
lcukGMA500 was written to do something23:07
lcukwhat is its special skill?23:07
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TSCHAKeeeit's low power23:07
Stskeepsvgrade: best we can hope for is it being provided through same means IEGD used to be23:07
lcukwhat can you do with it that works well?23:07
ali1234lcuk it's powervr same as in n90023:07
ali1234licensed and rebranded23:07
TSCHAKeeestill though.. um.23:07
lcukof course ali1234 - i am asking specific question23:07
lcukthe chip was not put in so the collective mass of developers could facepalm at it23:08
lcukso whats it good at23:08
ali1234it's good at 3d acceleration on mobile devices23:08
TSCHAKeeewhilst having relatively low power consumption23:08
lcukbut everyone who tries to use it for that fails - is it the mechanism of 3d being used? or the texture sizes or what?23:08
TSCHAKeeealthough nowhere near ARM's numbers yet23:08
lcukdoes it do any 3d rendering well?23:09
lcukparticular sorts of rendering?23:09
ali1234what do you mean everyone fails?23:09
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TSCHAKeeethe issue is that the chipset is not free software friendly _AT ALL_23:09
lcukwell ali1234 i have never seen anyone say "ooof this GMA500 is awesome, it lets me do ......"23:09
lcukooh ^23:09
ali1234yes the issue is no open source drivers, same as on n90023:09
lcukyes, well the n900 can do 3d23:10
TSCHAKeeeit's the same core23:10
lcukwe have nice fast 3d games and the WM uses it etc23:10
ali1234it can do 3d support if you run a stock rom23:10
TSCHAKeee(the gpu is licensed from powerVR)23:10
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lcukso this is *purely* a driver issue, powervr is fully capable?23:11
lcukat the netbook resolutions23:11
ali1234the only driver for GMA500 was a binary only release for ubuntu on dell netbooks23:11
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vgradearjan, so will EMGD every be part of MeeGo23:11
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lcukand who wrote the driver?23:11
ali1234the driver is compiled against that specific kernel and xorg, and does not work properly elsewhere23:11
TSCHAKeeei'm guessing NOT23:12
ali1234the driver was written by power i guess. that's not important23:12
TSCHAKeeelcuk: Intel, with the usual mess of licensed code from various places23:12
vgradeim asking the architect23:12
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lcukali1234, so where is the source?23:12
lcukit does matter23:12
ali1234lcuk there is no source23:12
TSCHAKeeeit's a commercial black box.23:12
ali1234lcuk same as there is no source for the n900 driver23:12
lcukthere is, its just not released?23:12
lcuksource does exist23:13
ali1234if it is not released it may as well not exist23:13
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ali1234it does exist and it will never be released23:13
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lcukcome on, I am asking serious questions here - I know how closed source development works, I am the integrator for Nokia Maemo AF23:13
TSCHAKeeetrust me, it's frustrating for all of us involved.. I'm wanting to run MeeGo on a Nokia Netbook 3G...beautiful little guy, great power consumption #s, but it's GMA500..yeaugh23:13
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ali1234lcuk what answer do you expect? intel do not own the code to release it - it is licensed23:14
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lcukali1234, so, there is someone sat on the source for this piece of silicon at imagination tech?23:14
StskeepsTSCHAKeee: people did already run meego on there ow, hough23:14
ali1234i dont knwo exactly *who* wrote it23:14
lcukor is it intel themselves23:14
lcukany clues in the binary?23:14
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CosmoHillali1234: can I see your spec file?23:14
vgradearjan, ?23:15
TSCHAKeeestskeeps: basically shoehorning EMGD onto it after the fact?23:15
Stskeepsthe silly situation is even worse by the fact that it seems like imgtec is softening up and allowing redistribution23:15
StskeepsTSCHAKeee: bingo23:15
ali1234CosmoHill: i didn't modify the spec for gcc23:15
lcukStskeeps, shades of n810 situation23:15
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lcukis meego expecting to be using a single kernel series for foreseeable period23:16
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lcukie if all this was followed up and someone manages to produce another binary out from some hole or other which works on meego netbook will it make people happy for a while?23:17
ali1234for a while :)23:17
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lcukthen at the point that happens, the chain of source and people incharge get documented23:17
lcukso that its easier next time23:18
Stskeepshopefully meego can in the long term help solve some of these blob issues..23:18
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lcukso, all the intel people who have contact with other intel people and imgtec people - talk and discuss and have beers and find out what can be done ?23:18
vgradearjan, thanks23:19
lcukdoes imgtec have irc ?23:19
lcuksince technically their code is in the principle reference devices23:19
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lcukwouldnt they like a voice23:19
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ali1234why would they? would foxconn want a voice too? i'm sure there's some of their parts in there somewhere23:20
lcukI am sure their image could be improved substantially23:21
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lcukand ali1234 has anyone invited them?23:22
ali1234how should i know?23:22
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ali1234i'm just some guy on irc23:22
* auke gets tired of word-twisting zealots23:22
aukewhy does everyone need to take mailing list threads out of context to prove a point?23:23
aukeit's not slashdot!!!23:23
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aukeI mean, why is it so wrong to post my concerns when someone asks about developing meego apps on windows? I did answer his question in the very first reply, that it was perfectly possible :(23:25
aukeUlfHofemeier: indeed23:26
ali1234is that on -community? i unsubscribed yesterday to test it works and forgot to resubscribe23:26
ali1234(i guess it does work)23:26
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aukeali1234: yes23:28
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ali1234i don't understand why you think running the SDK on windows vs linux makes any difference when you actually test?23:29
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ali1234if you are testing seriously you are testing on a device23:29
ali1234so what difference does it make where you compile?23:30
aukenone, but the thread started with someone who doesn't even have a device23:30
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ali1234well nobody has a device yet, they are not available23:30
Pforcethey are, few thousand euros though23:31
* CosmoHill makes a clamav spec file23:31
Stskeepsits probably not going to matter for app sdk anyway - it never tries to run the app when built for a diff target23:31
ali1234you might as well say "give up unless you work for intel"23:31
ali1234would have been about as helpful23:31
ali1234plus, if he wants to develop for arm, then qemu works exactly the same on windows or linux23:32
ali1234it's only if you want to develop for meego x86 that yo usuddenly end in a situation where you *have* to buy a core 2 and you *have* to run linux on it23:32
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Stskeepswhich isnt the case23:33
ali1234i know it isn't the case23:33
ali1234but the alternative is worse23:33
lcukdoes qemu now support yuv video modes?23:34
* lcuk remembers when hrw tried getting stuff working on it23:34
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aukeali1234: no device yet but this person doesn't even have a linux system23:36
aukeexcuse me for raising eyebrows23:36
ali1234it boils down to, why is testing your qt app which is native built for linux any more valid than testing your qt app native on windows?23:36
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aukeali1234: no, it boils down to eating your own dogfood23:37
Pforceali1234: you the same guy who started the ogre work for n900? :)23:37
aukeif you don't eat your own dogfood, you don't know how it tastes :)23:37
ali1234well no, i didn't start it23:37
ali1234i just continued it for a while :)23:37
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auke<- eats his own dogfood23:37
Pforceive been using 1.7.1 with gles1 for a while23:38
Pforcejust ran that on maemo23:38
mneptokwait ... it's dog*food*?! poor Fluffy! barbecued for naught.23:38
aukemneptok: cry23:38
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ali1234auke: i don't understand what that means?23:38
aukeali1234: it means doing more than testing your code, it means actually using it23:38
aukefor instance23:38
aukeif you designed pace makers, implant one in your chest23:39
aukethat's eating your dogfood23:39
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ali1234so why is it necessary for him to use a linux box to develop, if he gets a device?23:39
Pforceit builds, ship it23:39
infobotali1234 meant: so why is it desirable for him to use a linux box to develop, if he gets a device?23:39
Pforcelol nice bot :)23:40
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ali1234i'm really getting a bit tired of this "you must buy into our community and become a <...> developer" stuff. i'm hearing same thing over in ubuntu too23:42
CosmoHillali1234: :)23:42
ali1234like if you target multiple platforms you are doing something wrong23:42
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CosmoHillat the moment I don't23:42
ali1234everything about maemo was about making me manage my projects in garage23:42
ali1234while all ubuntu wants is me to put my project on launchpad23:43
ali1234why should i put my code on either one if it works perfectly well on both platforms?23:43
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ali1234for all its problems, at least OBS lets me compile for many different distros all in one place23:44
ali1234i'll even try to test on as many as i can23:45
ali1234of course that is subject to those distros actually working on some hardware that i own23:46
* CosmoHill looks at meego23:46
ali1234if buying an official meego device is a prerequisite to developing for meego, then that sucks23:46
aukeali1234: I never said he should develop on linux23:46
ali1234auke: yes you did, in your first post in the thread23:46
aukeyou're again, drawing conclusions from thin air23:46
ali1234you very strongly implied that is he was "serious" he should develop in linux23:47
aukewhich I explained later23:47
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auke"developing" means "writing code" plus "testing"23:47
ali1234later on you explained that what you actually meant was, windows is fine, and actually he should buy a device23:48
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aukeI could develop my code on a typewriter, and have it validated on a real device, or, with the lack thereof, at least a meego system23:50
aukewhere you write your code on is irrelevant23:50
aukethe part which people are looking over is this person doesn't even have _a_ linux system23:50
ali1234so what?23:50
aukeand probably not even a linux running in a vm23:50
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aukehe's developing something for meego?23:50
aukeI doubt he's developing something for meego at all23:51
aukeit sounds more like someone just read a news post and wants to "develop" (sans platform)23:51
ali1234who was it saying we should like of meego development like cross compiling?23:51
aukeyou can cross compile all you want23:52
ali1234android is based on linux, are you going to try to tell me that it's better to develop android apps on ubuntu than windows?23:52
ali1234i hope not, because that would be insane23:52
aukeI personally would like you to test your code on a device that comes close to the real thing, is what I'm after23:52
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aukeandroid isn't linux in my book23:53
aukecertainly not android app development23:53
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fprimexvgrade: hey, can I msg you?23:54
Macerouch :)23:54
Macerseems to have a very very very long way to go23:55
lcukit does, but every step we collectively take towards it helps23:56
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ali1234i still don't understand why you think running some Qt app under ubuntu on a i7 and a 1080p monitor would be more faithful to the meego experience than running it on a windows box of same spec23:57
Macerlcuk: yeah i suppose that's true. but the life expectancy is diminishing on the n90023:58
ali1234there would be almost no difference at all between them, and they would be both very different to the experience you get from a netbook23:58
lcukMacer, you had given up on the n900 before it was released23:58
aukeqgil: ty for your post23:58
lcukyou only came back to it after trying other things first ;)23:58
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Macerlcuk: no i didn't ;) i gave up on it after it was released23:59
Macerreally i loved my n900 up until the point where nokia did this maemo/meego stuff23:59
Macerwhich would have been fine if they had something for the n900 in place :) but alas they did not23:59
aukeali1234: actually, I disagree that running a Qt app on an i7 is more close to a handset than on a windows system, user experience wise23:59
qgilauke: I hope it helps to keep you working on funny things  :)23:59
aukeqgil: gah, I wish23:59

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